・theorycrafting

[clear ivy]

and i'd like aqua to stay on fischl for the moment

eventually tho i might get polar

[mental peak]

if i was doing on field NA's with nahida and yelans burst up to proc blooms

who would be triggering the reaction?

[eternal scarab]

If its just those two, mostly Yelan

[clear ivy]

is tighnari fischl yae sucrose better than tighnari fischl nahida sucrose as an overall team?

generally, what can be said to be the best tighnari team?

[torn ginkgo]

What does a hyperinvested team mean? Lol

[eternal scarab]

Extremely good artifacts, signature weapons, constellations

[raven frost]

hihi! is this where i would come and ask about the difference between heart of depths and the new nymph set in terms of damage?

[clear ivy]

it depends on the character, the biggest three characters in question using this set would be childe, ayato and xingqiu

i'm gonna put ayato out of the way first because i'm least knowledgable about him and i could be completely wrong

if i'm not wrong, his elemental skill does normal attack damage which is why yunjin buffs him

if that's the case you'll have to do Q -> CA -> E to maximize stack uptime, and within 8 seconds you'll be out of the CA stack

but 8 seconds is much more than his E duration so you should be fine, aside from having to do a CA (which should be fine as well)

the thing is that this set is imo strictly worse than 4 glad/4HoD because usually you don't have any multipliers on your bonus normal attack damage , whereas you have 46% hydro bonus from your artifact so increasing the NA damage is just better

[raven frost]

i was planning for childe to use it, yes
he's currently on heart of depths and i saw the buffs the 4pc to nymph gives and wasn't sure if the buffs from that would outweigh hod at full stacks

[clear ivy]

xingqiu, it's probably his best damage set hands down if you're not on a super strict on field hypercarry like al haitham (even hu tao you lose some stacks before she runs out of pyro)

that is if you can handle his ER reqs

for childe it's kinda better, but not by much

the big issue is that you might not be able to upkeep full stacks because of his CDs but even then you're guaranteed to have two stacks

[raven frost]

nymph is better than emblem on xingqiu as a support and hydro applicant?

[clear ivy]

but, this set buffs his burst too

[raven frost]

ohhh

[clear ivy]

and with childe the burst damage can go crazy

[raven frost]

yeah it does

which is why i was looking at it and curious

[clear ivy]

so this can offset the disadvantage from building into hydro% instead of na bonus

[clear ivy]

emblem still better because you don't need to mind ER issues

[raven frost]

ahh okay

[clear ivy]

but if by some miracle you have C6 xingqiu, some godrolled artifacts with ER that his ER doesn't become an issue

then in this case nymph probably outdoes

especially because xingqiu E can hit like a truck too

[raven frost]

yee

[clear ivy]

i used to know someone who did a 300k nuke on it

[raven frost]

holy shit

yeah nah, mine just does around 20k 😭

but then his burst is baby damage at like 3-4k per arrow

or whatever they're called

rain swords

[clear ivy]

yeah even mine is like 40k vaped but tbh i have him on emblem

[raven frost]

mine is too

which is why i wanted to ask about nymph lol

[clear ivy]

i think nymph is really nice for childe

[raven frost]

it's a new set so i don't expect there to be a TON written on it already and experimented with current units, but was still curious if there was an overall buff

[clear ivy]

like tbh

[raven frost]

over other sets like hod

[clear ivy]

his burst can be half his damage if you vape it

[raven frost]

yeah

[clear ivy]

or something crazy like 500k

[raven frost]

yeee

[clear ivy]

so if you get to buff that it's gonna be a significant upgrade

[raven frost]

thank you!

[clear ivy]

but on the other hand

if you have a good hod

[raven frost]

oh?

[clear ivy]

honestly matching it might take a while

[raven frost]

yeah nah his hod is like

mediocre at best

[clear ivy]

ah

[raven frost]

i spent so long farming hod i just gave up because it gave me absolutely nothing

[clear ivy]

just be mindful that the other set in the domain is currently garbage

tho it could be designed for future content

especially if the archon leaks are true

[raven frost]

yeah, i'm not stressing on the other set too much

especially since it seems i am getting better luck with which set i want over something like vv..

which feels like 10 maiden pieces for every vv piece

[raven frost]

i haven't seen any leaks but it'd be interesting to see that set be a major buff on someone

[clear ivy]

the secret is to pretend you're building the other set taps head

[raven frost]

lmao

true

[clear ivy]

i'm gonna put a minor spoiler about what we think her kit might looks like but it's like 7 months away so it could be totally wrong
||the archon siphons the HP from herself and her allies to increase her damage output||

[raven frost]

that sounds really interesting

sounds like a major help to hu tao too lmao

[clear ivy]

oh i just remembered i came here for a question, does anybody know if aggravate swirl crits? if so, does it crit by kazuha's CR/CD?

[fast sun]

Don’t believe so, aggravated swirl should be calculated like the other transformative reactions.

[kind dawn]

if it applies wet status, does that mean it applies hydro? so mona could be a good hydro in hyperbloom team. please correct me y'all

[clear ivy]

in theory yes, in practice there are many issues

first that it takes up stamina

and second that there's an internal cooldown on that application

also the application level isn't that high

[kind dawn]

i see. which characters that has no ICD and apply a great unit of hydro?

[clear ivy]

unfortunately , as of right now, the unmatched unit in terms of application is xingqiu

yelan falls short, but c2 puts her on par if not better than him

then you have kokomi / ayato who provide slow-ish off field application

but they can squeeze out a bit more with their on field normals

[kind dawn]

thanks for the explanation

[pastel solstice]

Whoops 😭

Wasnt me chief

[covert trellis]

🚽

[clear ivy]

you know, people been talking about al haitham quickbloom as one of the best teams in the game

but i don't think many people are talking about nahida quickbloom

like yeah the intuitive point is that there's a nahida in alhaitham quickbloom , but in that team she can't show her full potential because she holds deepwood and she doesn't get her own ult's em buff

i wonder, with a team of nahida, fischl, xingqiu, who would be a good 4th to make that team on par with other quickbloom teams

beidou's been really appealing for me in that slot

but you know beidou and her issues

[soft drift]

Fischl isn’t too reliable to proc hb

[clear ivy]

yeah

but i've been having consistent procs between her and beidou

due to the quickswappy nature of the team

[soft drift]

It dps on enemy mostly

[clear ivy]

i can afford to E more often

[soft drift]

Ig reposition ing oz helps

[clear ivy]

fischl has oz ssummon / ult every 12s

then you have beidou skill every 6 seconds

[soft drift]

Hb benefits from em too tho

Kuki would be a common pick

[clear ivy]

not a fan of kuki tbh

even on alhaitham

feels like she tanks down the team damage

[soft drift]

Ig it can feel that way in aoe and if fishcl steals all the hb

[clear ivy]

I'm sure you can't go wrong with HB

It's just that kuki alone for example in haitham teams , idk id she can apply enough electro to upkeep quicken

And if it's kuki fischl and no nahida, then the team runs into various other issues

[soft drift]

Energy?

[clear ivy]

Ya

And the lack of a proper deepwood holder

[soft drift]

Kuki alone should be enough electro to keep up for haitham hb

Lemme check sim rq

[soft drift]

https://gcsim.app/v3/viewer/share/5e026757-a35c-437f-a0d4-c92ff96d21e1

u have a point, quicken uptime is only .33 here

haitham misses alot of spreads in debug when accounting for skill issue

it still does ok tho, since kuki contributes alot with hb

[clear ivy]

Oh for sure , it's as i said, you can never go wrong with such teams

It's just that when it comes to something like quickbloom, my preference is to keep the priority to maintaining quicken uptime because otherwise I'm better off playing HB

And that's why I don't really like kuki within this context

[fluid swift]

I just run Yelan for more quicken if running with kuki

Nahida QB sounds meh to me bc Alhaitham > Beidou

(specifically for this context)

You're not really gaining much from either Beidou and Fischl either bc both are allergic to making consistent HB procs

At that point just do spread

[waxen sorrel]

So I just want like a clarification, so hopefully I'm putting this in the right spot. If I c6 my Kaz, I don't have to have to switch to DPS from em bot because (from my understanding) is the damage increase is minimal? (Ive been seeing posts where it says it's a 6% max difference) Would I stay with freedom sworn? Or would then his story quest sword be more optimal for mdps?

[soft drift]

Should depend on the team and rotation

Wat are u specifically looking at?

[waxen sorrel]

Well that's what I was trying to figure out, I've figured he needs a min of at like 400EM but do I just go full main DPS like 2pc atk+ 2pc anemo bonus? Or do I do more like 2pc anemo + 2pc anemo? Or even just double 2pc atk? I have a bunch of already built characters that can easily be a main DPS, but I would love to be able to make Kazuha that in my unit. He almost never leaves the team as is

Ive tried to do my own damage testing, with just artifacts I already have, but I think because none of those are like balanced specific the ratios are all wrong and I do about same or less dmg. I think the double anemo and the double atk may have done the most, but it was still like 15-16k per skill plunge I could see (not swirl)

[soft drift]

Did u get the numbers from kqm guide?

The 6% part

[soft drift]

Yeah swirl can be hard to see at times and crit can skew results, so normally to test we count all the reactions and buff uptimes and sheet it out

[waxen sorrel]

I want to say yes, because I went to several guides that were linked and I know I checked that one, but I was having problems finding one with a mdps in mind for Kaz. And the ones I did find haven't been updated since before his story quest

[waxen sorrel]

Exactly what I'm having issues with

[soft drift]

Gotcha, I’ve personally never calced main dps c6 kaz b4 and it is super rare for most to calc c6 normally

Do u have a link to the ones u found

And if possible the assumptions

[soft drift]

I can maybe try to sheet it for u if u can get the assumptions

[waxen sorrel]

Yeah let me go back through my history and see if I can grab those for you, I super appreciate your offer

Links are ok to post? Just making sure lol

[soft drift]

Google sheet?

[waxen sorrel]

Ye

It's a doc that has a sheet in it with links too

[soft drift]

Kqm?

[waxen sorrel]

Inazuma Isle

Was the first I grabbed

[soft drift]

Is that the name of a discord server?

U can dm me instead

[waxen sorrel]

No the name of the spreadsheet

Yeah sure!

[soft drift]

Oh, cos I’m not sure if it’s safe to send here

Rules are abit weird

Ye just dm me

[waxen sorrel]

Yeah exactly why I wasn't sure

Ok sounds great!

[north meadow]

A reminder not to post any discord link here unless it's one our partnered server (idk they might have changed it ).

[soft drift]

Would u prefer I came up with a team instead?

If u can’t decide on a team yet

I was thinking of maybe a salad / hyperbloom comp where he swirls electro to proc hyperbloom

Or as a driver for electro charge or over vape

I heard he has good interactions with Bennett

His weapon that’s infused with anemo gets swirled when infusing with Bennetts c6

Could be used for xl

[clear spear]

that's interesting so basically sunfire with lower uptime but higher damage?

[soft drift]

Don’t think it reapplies anemo to his wpn so should be a one off thing

[clear spear]

oh

[soft drift]

It can be used to proc 4 vv however

[waxen sorrel]

Actually yes, that'd be great. I have too many options and I can't narrow down who'd be best but I was also thinking something along those lines. My current team runs dendro, electro, anemo and hydro, but like everything kind of dies before I can even finish a whole rotation 😅

And I did c6 my Bennet already to be able to have pyro Kaz, so that is def an option, it's really fun actually

[soft drift]

Overworld or abyss?

[waxen sorrel]

Overworld

[soft drift]

The team u want me to make, is it for overworld or abyss?

Overworld would prioritise qol while abyss will prioritise dmg

[waxen sorrel]

I'm looking for overworld for like a new personal team, but I am not opposed to abyss at all

Yeah my current is nahida c2, yae c6, Kaz c4, and Childe c6 and I very much enjoy it

[soft drift]

Got Raiden?

Wait c6 Yae

[waxen sorrel]

Yeah c2 raiden

All my archons are at c2

[soft drift]

Maybe Yae Childe/xq kuki kaz and onfield kaz or kaz venti Raiden Childe/xq for double anemo speed boost and weak mob farm with EC

Nahida and kaz together is abit awkward cos kaz will have trouble abosorbing an element

Nahida can also be annoying to use in overworld for me

Idk

U can try nahida kaz burn ig

With Yae/Raiden

https://youtu.be/42qB50ybhVg

[waxen sorrel]

Yeah my rotation can be a bit off as is, it's not super smooth in using bursts. Atm it's nahida skill, yae skill x3, Kaz skill ult skill, Childe skill and I'm lucky if anything makes it passed that, usually dead by Kazs second skill

[soft drift]

U can try this with nahida Childe/xq Bennett kaz, but doesn’t rlly use his c6

[soft drift]

That’s overworld for u , super weak

As for the abyss team, do u want it to use your constellations of other chars or kqm standard supporting team members but c6 kaz

Will go for a team that uses his c6 anemo infusion

[waxen sorrel]

Yeeeeepppp, that's the main downside of overworld sadly 😦 constellations of other characters is fine, again I haven't personally played his c6, I do have faruzan but she's c0

[soft drift]

So I use c0 5 stars and c6 4 stars for the calc?

That’s kqm standard

[waxen sorrel]

Yeah, I can make adjustments based on my 5* if needed

[timid hamlet]

wheres kirara theorycrafting?

[knotty oyster]

gone bcs no theorycrafting nor kirara talk was being done

[spring bone]

what artifacts r good on yelan

[spice hound]

Generally aim for 4eosf, if your er needs are low enough you can run mix of 2pc eosf/hydro dmg%/ hp% in your set.

Main stats are generally HP% / Hydro DMG% / Crit%, but if you have good enough HP goblet or circlet you can probably get away with it

also, this is more of a #・genshin-help question

[spring bone]

thank u 🥹 sorry i barely use discord for codes

[compact karma]

did anyone test if the new bow gets insta stacked by 1 ganyu/tighnari charged shot

[zealous eagle]

It doesn't

[clear ivy]

It says 0.5s

So these followup shots are immediately out

[amber olive]

Ill leave this here in case anyone finds out

Looking for the gauge and decay rate of kiraras self application on her E

Pls thx love you

[soft drift]

What constellation is your Bennett ?

[waxen sorrel]

C6

[soft drift]

Aw

I’m free enough to do it today

[waxen sorrel]

I couldn't stand the notification for his constellation after a couple of hours and just ripped the band aid off, works great for pyro Kaz though lol

[soft drift]

I think I’ll do a hb team for him after all, as an anemo driver, or do u want something else

[rotund parcel]

I’m c5 r1 jc Haitham do I go for c6 or r1 lofi (idk if I can/want to spend), and yes I have a build that would work for Lofi, around the same cv as the JC build

Niche question ik

That’s exactly why I’m asking

[waxen sorrel]

Nah that's perfect, that's usually the type of team I run

[topaz viper]

C5 -> C6 is a much bigger upgrade than PJC -> Lofi

[rotund parcel]

Mannn I’m thorn

Do I pull on weapon then on character or on character then on weapon…. The weapon banner is so good

I still need a fs (I don’t wanna loose but)

[soft drift]

https://gcsim.app/v3/viewer/share/5947738e-8267-40ca-b885-f6246adb57e9 took awhile but heres one, doesnt use your c6 yae tho since she doesnt apply enough electro (for electro swirls) i think

u could try infusion kaz, since his sword self swirls and c6 buffs normal/charge/plunge attacks ,kind of a meme build however

[waxen sorrel]

Thank you so much!!

That's exactly the info I was looking for

You are absolutely amazing 💕

[proper jetty]

For crystallize shields, is shield strength calculated before or after EM?

[zealous eagle]

Its multiplicative, it doesn't matter

[clear ivy]

anyone knows the logic behind why deepwood is better than gilded for nahida when she's solo dendro off field?

deepwood effects: 15% dendro + 30% res shred -> practically 15% dendro + 10% res shred + 10% bonus from shred going into the negatives against most matchups
gilded effects: 230 EM

now the question is, why aren't they practically equivalent ? like for me it seems that 46.6% dendro damage bonus is about the same compared to the 4pc effect in most cases, and since you have the 230 em from the set bonus you can change the EM goblet that you'd run on deepwood into a dendro damage bonus goblet

at the very worst case for gilded, is the difference between 15% dendro bonus + 30% dendro res shred and 46.6% dendro damage bonus greater than 43 em? (the difference between gilded effect and the em goblet you'd run on deepwood)

[green tree]

why are you comparing with em goblet on deepwood

[clear ivy]

because em softgoals for off field nahida are around 900-1000 no?

[green tree]

it depends

on the team

[clear ivy]

sorry i forgot to specify that, i meant for double electro aggravate

[green tree]

in any case you should just plug those numbers into optimiser and you will know

oh pure aggravate

yeah just use optimizer

[soft drift]

Usually Deepwood is better

[clear ivy]

i'm not asking what's better for me, i'm asking why does KQM (and the general TC community) consider deepwood to be unconditionally better

[soft drift]

Better for hb

[clear ivy]

in my context gilded wins off of substat distribution alone

[clear ivy]

but they put DW better even in solo dendro double electro aggravate

i know the 30% res shred affects blooms and that's why it wins

[soft drift]

h!nahida

h!nahidafaq

[empty narwhal]

Nahida FAQ

A caged bird secluded within the confines of the Sanctuary of Surasthana who can only see the world in her dreams.

Nahida Artifact Sheet Compilation by em-#9212:

Google Drive

Nahida Weapon Ranking Sheet by Raikh / Vailen#8564:

Google Sheet

Nahida Frames Mastersheet by jrm.spirit#2671:

Google Sheet

[soft drift]

Look in the sheet

Deepwood literally does better

Even in pure spread

Solo

Dendro

U could go totm maybe

Forgot

[clear ivy]

but.... they did the summary on EM/EM/EM and then they had this on the side for 4GD (and my entire point was about 4GD potentially being as good assuming it can sacrifice one EM mainstat for one other mainstat and still get the 900-1000 KQM goals)

like, yeah ofc if you go EM EM EM on GD you'll be worse than DW you're running into the 1200 EM zone

also i'm sorry but 99 EM substat assumption on the crit circlet in EEC is just insane

[soft drift]

U are allowed like 6 em substats so not rlly

Each sub is worth 19 iirc

[soft drift]

Well u could ask the author but normally 4GD is even worser in gameplay thann in sheets

[clear ivy]

That's why I'm puzzled, because my GD set ended up playing better than my DW set

Maybe c1/c2 change stuff up

[soft drift]

Is your gd set like much better? And wat was the base res of the enemy?

[clear ivy]

I don't think my GD set is that much better, but I'll log in and jot down my experience just to be more accurate

[soft drift]

Could just be a combo of crit rng , enemy rng , sub diff

[soft drift]

Actually tell me the assumptions and I can calc rq whether gd is better

[clear ivy]

Sec i was eating

[soft drift]

7/9 procs buffed and 2 hold E?

[clear ivy]

Now I'm done

[soft drift]

10 spreads

[clear ivy]

ok, the team assumption is raiden, fischl, nahida, kazuha
rotation is raiden E kazuha Q E nahida E Q fischl Q raiden Q combos

gd set stats and dw set stats

[soft drift]

Just gonna calc nahida

Gonna do it in kqm standards for now

Manual input of subs 💀

[clear ivy]

do you want the enka for the substat allocation?

[soft drift]

No need

[clear ivy]

43k spread with GD, 43k with DW against raiden weekly

that's weird

[soft drift]

@clear ivy @green tree

[clear ivy]

Yeah that makes more sense

96% of so it's within substat difference

[soft drift]

Idk how much a substat is worth for nahida but alr off my pc

Usually 2% each crit

[spare osprey]

In case anyone cares, here’s a C6 Nahida team rotation. Unlike other teams I’ve seen, this team has a 13.5-15 second long rotation, basically allowing you to fully utilize Nahida’s C6. Yae bursts every other rotation, but that’s still only 27-30 seconds per burst rather than 35-40 seconds as usual

Yaoyao works instead of Kirara too, but she’s not as good at generating a quick burst of particles for Nahida and can extend the rotation by 1-2 seconds, which is actually a lot if you’re running such a short rotation

I recommended against using Kirara hold E cancel because while you would gain 1 extra dendro particle you would lose on field time for Nahida to catch particles and use her C6 attacks

With favonious on Kirara Nahida’s ER requirements are probably at 130-140%

The short rotation time and high proportional amount of time spent in burst animations keeps the shield survivability very high

[clear ivy]

does this count as a part of the MV or is it an add-on damage bonus like yelan?

i'm trying to calculate the impact from swapping kazuha / sucrose on raiden hyper because sucrose gives 5 more stacks which is like ~8%, and i wanna see how it compares to a 20% attack increase

[proper jetty]

It's additional talent values.
At 60 stacks you should add an additional 92.4% MV to each burst hit (apart from initial slash).

[clear ivy]

oh that's crazy

then 8% MV > 20% atk

[proper jetty]

Not always, as far as base dmg goes 20% atk is a increase over 5 resolve stacks. However I'd still say consult GO for optimization like these. The difference between Kazuha and Sucrose is a lot more than just a difference between resolve stacks.
Anyways Calculators should be more accurate than my napkin math.

[clear ivy]

i was assuming c6r5 sucrose vs c0r1 kazuha
40% electro bonus for both, just the 5 resolve stacks vs the 20% attack now left

the biggest thing for me was back then the kazuha grouping and his personal damage, but i'm finding less and less values out of these aspects these days as kazuha's overall damage in a c3 raiden team is well... humble

if i get rid of kazuha while increasing / keeping the damage similar then i can move kazuha on the other team and put elegy on sara, which should keep her buffing output to skyward similar while increasing her damage output from me not being cornered into using a 20 TCV er sands

and tbh i know i should use optimiser at some point but i'm too lazy putting in everything

[proper jetty]

iirc Sucrose C6 only buffs 20% bonus elemental dmg, so I'm not sure where your extra 20% is coming from?

[clear ivy]

r5 hakushin

[proper jetty]

ah ic

Assuming you're using the usual Raiden, Sara, Kazuha, Bennett comp. infusing Kazuha’s burst with pyro and triggering overloaded is probably enough to edge out Sucrose's reaction dmg in the team. Getting Sucrose to infuse her Q with Pyro is impractical along with the risk of losing her C6 buffs.

Sucrose's EM buffs would probably see better use in other teams as both Raiden and Sara benefit little in a predominantly electro dmg team.

[clear ivy]

it's like 8 * 10k overloads no ?

let me go check the number on 1k em

[proper jetty]

Really depends on the number of enemies you're fighting.

[clear ivy]

i mean

i'm not gonna overload swirl in AoE

but i guess there are edge cases of enemies that not blown up by overload and are multiple

i'm gonna figure out an approximate of the DPR i might get over 2 enemies because i think 3 is the max (in most cases) you can get without them being too squishy in most situations so 1 / 2/ 3 average out to 2

i do not think it's gonna be a major portion but i can't make a comparison and exclude it

[covert trellis]

Kazuha comes out in top

Always

Sorry suck-rose

@unreal minnow

[summer marlin]

For Tighnari

R5 Stringless or R5 Ibis Piercer?

Using Wanderer Troupe, Dendro Traveler for Deepwood set
Quicken Team comp

[clear ivy]

kirara TC dweller identified, opinion invalidated

[clear ivy]

neither, use the slingshot

25 crit rate + a viable passive

[covert trellis]

[soft drift]

How does ibis work for tighnari

[clear ivy]

as described?

you'll get the 40 elemental mastery every time a charged attack hits

this includes the followup attacks

so if the followup attacks land within 0.5s then you get both stacks from one single CA

and of course, it's nothing more than an attack and em statstick that loses out to slingshot

[covert trellis]

[soft drift]

ibis should be worse

full uptime is misleading

[summer marlin]

Thank god honestly I dont really like Ibis I dont have materials

[summer marlin]

I really didnt want to consider slingshot because he already has a finished build but guess I should change his crit rate hat into crit dmg then if I have any

Oh wait hes already using Crit dmg hat and his crit is 54/153

He had a lot of crit rate rolls

[north meadow]

I'm here to repeat ur findings it's absolutely dog

[winter steeple]

I'm running Nahida Xingqiu and Shinobu in my team and was thinking of running C6 Bennett in my last slot to give Shinobu a pyro infusion so she can also burgeon

How would this team perform in comparison to having Thoma instead of Bennett?

[lofty wave]

you cant really do Burgeon and HB at the same time

And even if you did somehow find a way

it wouldnt be that great

cuz you run into Bloom hit cap

[vivid ember]

you would with pyro infusion kuki, but not thoma+kuki

bloom cap is per character, so you can have two characters triggering seperately avoiding eachother's bloom caps

but generally kuki and thoma have too high of a range for either of them to not trigger any existing blooms, so practically it wont work

[clear spear]

isn't that just curry?

[prisma anchor]

are there any abilities with cubic scaling in the game yet?

[clear ivy]

no

that would be way too strong

[summer marlin]

Working on YaoYao for my Cyno team

Should I do HP or EM build? Also what set and weapon

I was planning Milileth set but maybe theres better options

[lofty wave]

Instructors

and EM isnt doing much there for her

she doesnt really deal damage

and blooms are gonna use Cyno em anyway

so HP for healing

also #・genshin-help

[clear ivy]

how much is a dps loss is trading em -> hp mainstat on key kuki overall?

assuming level 90 (so around over 30k hp), em em em -> hp em em and that the hp piece may have em substats

[clever phoenix]

what should i call, crit rate * crit dmg?

crit power? crit efficiency?

[clear ivy]

Average damage increase through crits?

[south oar]

Yeah

Provided that cv is constant max AVG DMG occurs at cr:cd is 1:2 till crit rate <100

[soft drift]

Doesn’t matter

Crit value or crit multiplier can be used tho

[amber olive]

CV specifically is generally used to refer to 2(Crit Rate) + Crit DMG for grading artifact quality

so personally prefer to call it Crit Multiplier

as thats the multiplier in the dmg formula for your crit

[soft drift]

wait sry checked debug and 4flop is wrong here

corrected one above

[soft drift]

.

[clear ivy]

Ty

6% isn't massive but the healing increase isn't as much either

[austere thicket]

wh

where freminet channel

[rocky bronze]

#1125710783507075083

[austere thicket]

danke

[marble raft]

hutao dpr?

[winter steeple]

hello tc
I saw a team online for Nahida Xingqiu Shinobu and Thoma, but I wanted to find a way for Shinobu to take ownership of all blooms. Is c6 bennett a good substitute for Shinobu? I've been hesitant to c6 my bennett for the past 2 years which is why I'm asking here

[green tree]

why do you need thoma there?

[tardy bolt]

guys

is there any calc on rose rev melt using that new spear from bp?

assuming passive

[amber olive]

If you want shinobu to take ownership of all blooms why are you considering replacing her with bennett? Also no the point of thona kuki is to bypass blooms 2 hits per target per instance limit by getting both burgeons and hbs

So youd be replacing thoma if anything but theres not rly a need for bennetts atk buff there on anyone unless hes just ur only healer

[clear ivy]

It's probably worse than dbane by a significant bunch

Hp substat

[amber olive]

The weapon wouldnt b awful but yeah dragons bane exists, giving almost the same EM as well as dmg bonus

Also would require a team like
Cryo/pyro/anemo/flex since you need 3 different elements in the team

So the traditional rosaria/kaeya/benny/xl wouldnt work to use the weap

Also its CR sub not hp right?

The hp weapon is energy

[tardy bolt]

its crit rate

[clear ivy]

Ah it is crit yeah my bad

[amber olive]

would be pretty it depends ig coz of your team setup

[clear ivy]

I mistook it for the craftable

Even with crit the activation condition is not worth it

But there are rosaria rev melt variants with kazuha instead of xiangling

They're obviously the worst of both worlds but they would be able to make the team work with the weapon without compromising its integrity if you really want it to work

[tardy bolt]

yeah, I'm somewhat fine with this condition, is just that I dont know if would be worth to refine the weapon

[tardy bolt]

I usually run both teams depending on content. It's for fun 50% of the time but I still want better results on this team

[fierce roost]

Have been asked to post this here: has anyone done calcs for the new BP spear (ballad of the fjords) on XL vs R5 catch?
Ideally could include R5 calcs if the BP weapon isn't better at R1. Thanks!

I'm seflishly most interested in calcs for raiden national or childe reverse vape teams with c0 kazuha (no external EM buff), but would be keen to see whatever calcs people feel like doing

[winter steeple]

Replacing Thoma with Bennett*

Bcos Shinobu 's AAs will perform bloom actions which will help surpass the 2 blooms limit

[winter steeple]

I'm relying on the pyro infusion to make shinobu bloom more

Unless if there's any other character that can provide a pyro or electro infusion

I also use Candace which works wonders

But it doesn't help with the 2 blooms

[fallen remnant]

Hey, sorry it took so long. Piggybacked off of some work by Jam from KQM and added the new weapon.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YHawW-oE3c3-B_CKfKaQVsriyI-O31MrtmxAdKYVJ_A/edit?usp=sharing

Tl;dr - R1 it's OK but doesn't appear better than the catch (although may depend on substats), but at R5 it's a phenomenal weapon and competes or beats R1 5* weapons in some scenarios

Like in rational it seems to be BiS above R1 5*s.

Even better if it lets you run The Catch on Raiden instead.

[fierce roost]

Thanks so much for the calcs!

[hardy estuary]

why isnt there a theorycrafting channel for HMC and fermie?

oh wait its a 3 in one

nvm im just dumb

[small gate]

Can someone mention Lyney TC pls

[spice hound]

#1125709883392659456 ?

[small gate]

Thanks .. for some reason I need to added again to see It

[versed bison]

hi do hp buffers affect xq's heals?

[fallen remnant]

Yes it is based on his max hp

[nova escarp]

Is this the right place to ask for how good is the leaked BP polearm for Hu Tao?

[north meadow]

Good on most of her comps technically better than dm

If ur running tao with a Bennett it's even better

[nova escarp]

What if im running with double Hydro? How can it be better than DM in refinements for Hu Tao?

[north meadow]

It's just gonna be few .% better at 1:1 but it might be better depending on how ur subs are distributed

It doesn't work if ur using XL on double hydro obviously

[lime mulch]

how good would the leaked bp sword be for alhaitham/xingqiu?

[clear ivy]

Decent for haitham, not so much xingqiu

[low shale]

wdym not so much on XQ?

[clear ivy]

Isn't it a general increase of crit rate for the skill?

• crit substat?

[vivid ember]

crit rate for skill or burst depending on what hits enemy

[clear ivy]

Ah

[low shale]

CR substat + E and Q DMG% + some extra CR for skill and burst
this is perfect for XQ if you dont need the ER

[clear ivy]

I was about to say, that's much better but still

ER moment

[vivid ember]

PJC powercreep?

after like 7 months

[low shale]

double Hydro and/or Raiden moment

[clear ivy]

I guess true

Can't wait to get it for haitham tho

That thing is cracked

[austere thicket]

Funny how numerous people have mistaken this for a claymore

[austere thicket]

You forgot something: it doesn't state that it can work off-field.

[austere thicket]

gotta love 32% dmg bonus and 32 CV for skill and burst

already have mist tho

[cerulean wasp]

they would probably nerf DMG bonus to something like 20% on release, I think.

maybe make it 16% on R1 to 24% on R5

[low shale]

bro, they arent gonna nerf a BP weapon

[austere thicket]

Did they ever nerf a 5* weapon tho

[clear ivy]

Serpent spine moment

[south oar]

Yeah it is affected by hp buffs and healing bonus but it's not worth focusing on cause it only heals like 4k to 6k hp

[versed bison]

still a lot lol considering he also reduces incoming damage so in total he saves u like ~15-20k hp

+my xq along with yelan's buff heals like 7k

[south oar]

That's true but how does yelan buff xingqiu healing

I think at 20k hp u get 4800 hp heal without any healing bonus

[versed bison]

magic

[versed bison]

I have healing bonus on him along with hp hp

[lime hedge]

is there any hope for the craftables and bp weapons

i heard the bp weapon on klee is pretty mid

[south oar]

No

[fallen remnant]

I don't think it works off field, the stacking CR

But even if it doesn't, the stacks last 10 seconds so some quickswap rotations could let him stack it anyway

and even with no stacks it's still a good weapon

[lime hedge]

oh not even the polearm?

also, how does golden troupe do on fischl for agg

[south oar]

It's good...you can get 40% skill DMG bonus...not sure about the extra 20%

Its also good on albedo but by a small margin

Fischl a4 is skill DMG so it gets boosted by the set

[lime hedge]

isn't it easy to get the 20%?

lol

"when not on field"

fischl doesn't snapshot does she

[south oar]

She snapshots

[lime hedge]

40% still sounds good though

does anyone have calcs

[low shale]

Mihoyo really need to make clear in game what stats snapshot and what stats dont

Elemental Skill DMG inst a snapshotable stat

[clear spear]

so im theory she does get the 20% right?

[low shale]

Yes, she does

[mint agate]

hello

oh sorry this should in the lynette theorycraft channel

[green tree]

tbf only stats in stat page snapshot (except em which sometimes doesn't sometimes does which is stupid)

[clear ivy]

bp weapons have some solid stuff

sword is busted, catalyst is gonna be great when a character than can use it drops

craftabeles we finally have an hp% spear

i think it's safe to set craftables aside for the moment

they might end up being much better than we think they are by october

[lime hedge]

oh nice

the sword did seem busted yea

what about the polearm? how does it scale with refines

isn't it like straight up free em

[low shale]

yeah, pretty good on Tao, Cyno, XL, Melt Rosaria

[lime hedge]

pretty funny

[lime hedge]

oh btw do you have any calcs for golden troupe fischl

[cerulean wasp]

it's not released so technically it wouldn't be a nerf

[low shale]

🤓

[lime hedge]

that's kind of a bad reason

that's like saying zhongli wasn't nerfed because he got changed entirely right before release

buffed*

my bad

[cerulean wasp]

he was actually both nerfed before release and buffed after release

[versed bison]

they need to clear up that snapshotting exists in the first place. people who don't look into mechanics outside of the game wont even know snapshotting is a thing

[fierce flicker]

So um rip dehya, her best team mono pyro has a new better dps

🤠

[glossy depot]

hasnt klee always been better

[fierce flicker]

True

[glossy depot]

[fierce flicker]

But rip her too then

[still nexus]

Is there any calc for the new arti if using fischl or yae?

[lime hedge]

lyney isn't better

less utility

he might do more dps but klee still has a ton of utility on top of her good dmg

[clear ivy]

what are the artifact assumptions for KQMS, assuming that all calcs are being done with that ?

[fallen jetty]

On yae the new artifact isn't much better if you use your burst every rotation. For fischl is her new bis I guess

I saw some calcs earlier

Let me find it

[amber olive]

https://compendium.keqingmains.com/kqm-standards

[still nexus]

Thank you

[jolly hemlock]

will golden troupe be bis for fischl and miko?

[umbral echo]

@jolly hemlock if it dosnt get nerfed then yes

Anyone did the xiao calcs for the new crit set ? If so how are the results ?

[modest chasm]

do we know the reward for 4.0 event? It should be a weapon right?

[fierce flicker]

Hope it’s a catalyst

We haven’t had a event cat in a hot minute

[modest chasm]

ok so we still don't know

[lime mulch]

Iirc it’s bennett

Might be wrong tho I can’t find the source

[modest chasm]

what did we get in 3.0? Maybe it was just Collei and we'll only get Lynette in 4.0

[vivid ember]

wasnt it a free collei in event and from spiral?

[clear ivy]

yes

[fallen jetty]

I'm sorry, I didn't find it 😦

[low shale]

Collei was a event reward in 3.0, and later in 3.1 they put her as a permanent reward in abyss

Bennett is the event reward for 4.0

Lynette is a permanent reward for everyone that reaches AR 25

You are gonna gain a copy of her on the email

[modest chasm]

Bennett in 4.0? ew

Why don't they do the same as Collei with Lynette

[low shale]

You dont understand
Lynette is PERMANENTLY FREE after 4.0
Cause you need an Ousia and a Pneuma character to be able to explore Fontaine
Hydro MC is already Pneuma, so Lynette is our free Ousia character

[modest chasm]

I do understand

[still nexus]

It's alright

[austere thicket]

Is there any damage calculator with freminet yet?

[versed bison]

she likes me so much that she buffs the entire team's hp out of pure joy and happiness

[clear ivy]

hello, i need some touching up on my maths becuase there's a part that's not adding up and is janking my calculations
i'm working using my fischl (level 90) against an electro primo geovishap (level 90) without reactions or vv

level 90 fischl, 1757 attack, 241.6% crit damage, with level 13 talent (189% oz tick MV)
46.6% goblet, 20% aqua simulcra, 4PC gilded

enemy has def multiplier of 0.5, 50% resistance to its corresponding element so 0.5 resistance multiplier

what i'm currently doing in terms of calculations is
(1757 * 1.89) * (1 + 0.466 + 0.2) * ( 1 + 2.416) * 0.5 * 0.5 = 4725 damage per tick
what i'm getting in reality is 6550

[soft drift]

It has .7 for resistance

[clear ivy]

hmm, i got .5 from honey

[soft drift]

Try fandom

[clear ivy]

i am confused

[soft drift]

One is wrong one is not

[clear ivy]

oh .7 as in 30% resistance

ok yeah that's more in line , except the damage outcome is overshooting by 74 damage :P

i guess rounding stuff

[soft drift]

Isn’t primo visharp level 93

[clear ivy]

is it ?

you're right

ok that's more like it, only 12 damage difference so that's gotta be rounding differences

[soft drift]

Still too much

Idk tho

[hoary hedge]

are there any good reliable cryo off-field applicators for phys teams

minus ganyu

[dusk token]

Rosaria kaeya diona layla

[hoary hedge]

thank you i somehow forgot the entire cryo lineup existed

[timber topaz]

when you have different poise multipliers at the same time, they are multiplied together for your total poise right? (ex: 0.5 cyno q+ 0.5 beidou q would cause you to have 0.25 poise and not just 0?)

[north meadow]

U would have base poise (1)+ 0.5 from cyno's+ beidou's

That's would be 2

It's just stacking additively

[soft drift]

@north meadow

[north meadow]

That's dr

Idk man poise section should be on the poise section

Cuz (1* 0.5* 0.5) doesn't make sense for poise

Or I'm gaslighting myself

Cuz if that's how it works Childe should have lower poise

https://youtu.be/MhA-uOrUdFU

[soft drift]

Why is it so tiny

Missed it

[north meadow]

Ain't this different tho

This involves dmg taken

[soft drift]

Elaborate

[north meadow]

The dude probably meant dmg reduction more than poise

Cuz if u do it for Childe (0.5*0.5)

He would have 0.25

That's lower than 100 base

Which he gets from adding 0.5 to his range base

[soft drift]

Dmg reduction for poise?

[north meadow]

Dmg reduction is different

This is why this shit is useless even the entire thing is mixed up

[soft drift]

^ isn’t this in the formula

[north meadow]

Like if u use that u would have

Childe range has 0.5
His E adds poise to make it the same as melee (which is 100)

[soft drift]

That goes to a different part of the formula

[north meadow]

If we follow that we would get lower results

[soft drift]

Cyno and beidou is different

[north meadow]

Explain

[soft drift]

(base + Childe range stance poise ) - poise dmg * (Cyno hyper armor * beidou hyper armor)

I think I get what u mean, he asked if it’s total poise but it’s just hyperarmor

[north meadow]

That would be on dr

[soft drift]

Using the same name for everything

Frfr

[north meadow]

Wiki says Dr stacks additively

[soft drift]

ITS DIFFERENT

It’s not for poise

Poise is ir

[north meadow]

Yes I know
https://youtu.be/dF7szUj3AWo

[soft drift]

Then what does this even mean

I’m lost…

[north meadow]

Me too man me too

Unless values are different

[soft drift]

This never happened frfr

[north meadow]

I got it now

Values gets smaller for the bar

This shits weird man

[soft drift]

[soft drift]

Yeah it’s not that intuitive

Hyper armor implies it increases poise

Well like Elden ring for example

[north meadow]

Like at exactly 0 u get eula with infinite poise at Q

[soft drift]

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Interruption_Resistance/Poise

[north meadow]

In my head I just add them additively

[soft drift]

Dark souls gamer…

Makes sense now

[north meadow]

It functions like essentially if u have 0 multiplier on that action it's considered as having no poise bar?

So it functions like ur uninterrupted during certain states

[soft drift]

More like the poise bar takes 0 from all sources of poise dmg

[north meadow]

An update on this (ignore what I said)

This should be correct

100 × 1 (bar)× 1 (level coefficient) × 0.25= 25 poise dmg taken

This ain't accurate when ur doing actions.

[abstract phoenix]

Is Lyney gonna be good if he doesn’t do reactions?

[covert trellis]

average as most other dps that aren't hutao

[kind escarp]

anyone have a list or a general idea for who golden troupe might be useful on?? Would it be good at all on a C2 Baizhu considering his off-field snake damage counts towards elemental skill damage? (Sort of like a mini dendro Raiden??) Would it be worth using for an off-field only Raiden support in an aggravate Team? Gimme all ur ideas!! 🥰🥰

[fallen jetty]

I can only think of Nahida or fischl.
Yae and albedo could technically use it too, but I remember calcs being made for it already and the current choices we have are still better.
About other choices that I'm not exactly sure could be heizhou. But it would be really hard to play, as you only get 3 secs to press E and switch

Maybe XQ/yelan nuke can use it too

[fallen jetty]

But I doubt. And it is too niche too

[fierce grail]

Baizhu doesnt to much damage anyways, so I don't think it will be competitive with sets like Clam or Deepwood. In Fischl, at least according to Zajeff, it's her new BiS. Works well enough on Yae too and should be a competitive option for both Albedo and Nahida

[whole lion]

kirara c0 vs dmc c6 in nilou bloom with nahida and kokomi, whos better

[fierce grail]

Since you already have Kokomi, you shouldnt need a secondary defensive option and DMC dendro app is better, so i'd say that

[whole lion]

oki, thanks. i also have yaoyao c2, so i can always shuffle

[wet knoll]

Would it be better than GD for yae aggravate?

[woven frigate]

y'all, what's better on Raiden? Jade spear of scarlet sands?

waits for answer

[summer sigil]

Does anyone know how lyney bow r1 compares to other 5 star bows + r5 stringless on fischl in double electro?

[fallen jetty]

!!optimizer

[misty thistle]

https://frzyc.github.io/genshin-optimizer/

[fierce grail]

I have not seen calcs on that front, so I dont know

[still nexus]

Is 60% skill damage bonus(troupe) is better than 36% atk for fischl?

[clear ivy]

it's 70% now

and yes, by around 15% margin better

[still nexus]

Ohhhh I see

[still nexus]

Thank youuu, I’m having dilemma whether to replace her 2ps tf 2ps shime for troupe

[clear ivy]

generally speaking

if you have a strong set on fischl

it's gonna take like months to replace it

so if you have nothing to farm for you can poke around that domain in anticipation of furina

[still nexus]

Considering my potato this would take longer to farm

[still nexus]

Nice ideaa

[torn ginkgo]

i think losing 18% atk and gaining 70 dmg% to the skill with just a multiplier is not worth the special grind of this set. You already have 61.6 electro% and 48 dmg % from stringless.
on the other hand, where to spend the resin?

[clear ivy]

it's definitely worth it, numbers wise

maybe not as much with the stringless

and it's not like they'll leave the X.0 artifact domain useless (assuming some of the sets actually work for furina and other strong units in the region)

[soft drift]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Lkx0LUfr0JsIwu4LEyPMYLeEkKJ04PCnlrecgo-P2Ok/edit

@humble tiger did a comparison of Kokomi’s combos that u may find interesting

Pls ignore the mv portion tho, only has hp mvs and those are like never reliable

[versed bison]

hi would it be better for me to use 2p hydro dmg 2p hydro dmg rather than the current build? my sources of dmg% buffs are kazoo, yelan's passive and aqua, and hp buff sources are yelan's c4 which increases hp by 30% base hp on average and hydro resonance

[ebon glade]

is the new elemental skill set an upgrade over gilded for yae in dendro teams?

i usually run her with raiden sara and yaoyao

[small gate]

for now It Is huge boost for Fischl ||buff again ||
and It Is good for Yae but not far cuz you still have great source of damage from her Q
and It depend In teams and reactions

[covert trellis]

if your yae team was carried by fischl, it will now be carried harder than ever if you farm the new set for fischl

[rose crown]

is there a definitive list of characters that the new 4.0 sets will be BiS on, or is that still in the works? a #・tc-thoughts post on this topic would be pretty well received and appreciated

[amber olive]

im considering writing something myself however on hiatus right now so unless someone gets to it before me, you may be waiting a bit on that sorry

but im very interested in the CR set so

[rose crown]

i think the CR set in particular has pretty unique interactions with a lot of teams/teambuilding (for example incentivising dropping shielders), it could see use potential use on units that may not even have in built hp-drain mechanics at the same time it’s extremely conditional, which makes me wonder what the eventual conclusion on its viability will be

[amber olive]

if youve ever seen me in TCL talking about it, at a stretch it can be used on almost anyone

one team im excited for that may not be practical for all is tao/xq/yelan/nahida

except youre actually able to use nahidas E here now

and nahida can run pamber to help even more with the sets uptime

because its hp changes and pamber is 4 small heals overtime which keeps max stacks for around 7 seconds i believe it was???

im hoping its proccable off field, theres nothing to imply it shouldnt be since your HP can change off field

[rose crown]

what are some implications of it being able to proc off field

[amber olive]

it just doesnt specify "can be triggered off field" but its not like its a teambuff so

oh wait they changed the wording on the set

nice clarification

[rose crown]

[amber olive]

definitely no overheal and no max hp buff / debuffs 😔

no yelan c4 abuse lmfao

unfortunately vourukashas specifies that it can be procced off field

so something like furina slowly reducing the whole teams current HP just wouldnt work to give the whole team that set

altho would be usable on your carry in that scenario

it doesnt say stacks are removed when swapping out though so thats nice

as i said, glados arc, let me test

[rose crown]

hmm the more possibilities you’re listing, the more i think coming up with a reasonably detailed write up will be quite difficult

[amber olive]

[rose crown]

because of its versatility but at the same time somewhat specific trigger condition

[amber olive]

a lot of my ideas are quite complicated and wouldnt be something a lot of ppl would wanna play around

but it has a lot of potential imo

[rose crown]

you’d have to explore a decent half of the roster as well as their available teams to give a good call

[amber olive]

yup, it has potential to be very very good even if the condition is kinda annoying

[amber olive]

yeah being team dependant is gonna put ppl off

like tao cant rly get good stacks on it by herself in normal teams she runs

but with stuff like pamber / burgeon she can easily

[rose crown]

yup and i’ve already seen a non-negligible number of people claiming it’s new Bis

[amber olive]

pamber does require some strict timings and depends what char youre gonna use tho

[rose crown]

whatever the truth is, it WILL be controversial that’s for sure

[amber olive]

i dont think itll be her new bis just because CW is so easy to use and much more universal for all her teams

[amber olive]

[rose crown]

kokomi release good or bad type thing

[rose crown]

oh pamber stocks are sky high that’s for sure

[amber olive]

[rose crown]

guaranteed procs if the team can afford the small small price of dropping ttds

[amber olive]

hmhm

like tao/xq/yelan/nahida survivability is in the drain for a lot of players so pamber helps there

even if it gimps nahidas dmg a lot compared to other options

but in return it helps your stacks of the set

[vapid drift]

someone tell me what theorycrafting is bcccc...

i wanna get into it but idk wtf it even is 😭😭

[green tree]

math

[clear ivy]

Basically you just redo the whole maths behind damage in genshin with artifacts, weapons and all on an excel spreadsheet then you start changing variables to reach certain conclusions

There's a damage calculation article on the fanpedia there's also kqm page on their artifact/character standard

[fair kite]

Essentially it's using mathematics to optimise your gameplay

[amber olive]

not just math, it also encompasses the theoreticals and mechanics of the game imo, figuring out dendro shit was some of most fun ive had here

any form of testing, even just rotations could be considered theorycrafting

[rotund parcel]

will the 20% dmg bonus + 80 em be better than 80 + 80 em on haitham? (or maybe oven the 4pc considering he can get 40% out of it)

40% skill dmg boost or 160 em basically/ 20% + 80 or 160

My optimiser is outdated (lazy to scan again) rn and Im too stupid for this I feel

bc like with c2 and nahida you get close to 1000 overcap anyways

[rotund parcel]

nvm did the math and em wins still by a lot

[vapid drift]

is tighnari stronger than ganyu with spread?

[small gate]

For now Tighnari & Nahida Is far better

[vapid drift]

i thought so

but tighnari has to be used with an electro unit like raiden or fischl right?

[small gate]

yes only Quicken teams
other dendro reaction don't work good with him

[vapid drift]

ok

[clear ivy]

did anyone check whether fischl with the new E set can run atk% goblet instead now?

i know with albedo he can run def%

[low shale]

with Stringless that is very likely actually

[clear ivy]

I was thinking aqua

[vapid drift]

someone tell me what a hypercarry and driver is

[jagged oracle]

From some quick calcs

Stringless:
AAC/AEC is not worth on aggravate (≈5-6 subs diff). AAC is decently similar to ADC on non-aggravate (≈1 subs diff)

Aqua:
AAC and AEC are not worth. (≈4-5 subs diff)

[clear ivy]

Sorry I'm not understanding something

For stringless, first line says aac not worth, but then next line says it's comparable to adc

Is adc not the optimal on fischl agg with stringless?

[jagged oracle]

Oh ye lemme rephrase, forgot to specify

there we go

[clear ivy]

Aaah

Ty

We'll see if she gets liberated from aggravate ever again then

Thanks for the calcs!

[jagged oracle]

It's pretty hard for electro goblet to become bad for aggravate because it buffs both talent and aggravate damage, unlike ATK and EM

So it would neeed to be a pretty massive statstick

[jagged oracle]

Hypercarries are usually units who center the team around themselves and deal the majority of the team's damage, meaning that any investment into them will translate very closely to a team increase. They'll typically have 2 or 3 units dedicated to supporting them in some way. A very easy to understand hypercarry comp would for example be Wanderer - Bennett - Faruzan - Shielder, since basically all of the team's damage is centered around Wanderer alone and everyone is there to give him something. Another example would be Hu Tao - Xingqiu - Bennett - Kazuha, where 2 units give direct buffs and the third enables reactions to also buff Hu Tao's personal damage. Xingqiu and Kazuha (in AoE) will deal a good amount of damage, but it will still be a relatively low portion compared to Hu Tao herself. However, if we do Hu Tao - Xingqiu - Yelan - Zhongli, this team will no longer hyperscale with Hu Tao investment since the DPS isn't as centered around her, so it would no longer be a hypercarry team.

Drivers are units that aren't on-field for their personal raw damage, but because of the extra reactions they can cause with this field time. They can be either more selfish drivers such as Sucrose, who deal a good amount of damage with these reactions, or more selfless drivers such as Nahida, who is on-fielded to maximize the amount of dendro reactions your team can do.

[vapid drift]

thank you brah

i thought hypercarry was hyperbloom carrying you thru the abyss 😭😭

[clear ivy]

Yup, we'll see if EC comes back to life in fontaine but until then electro stays king

[fair kite]

When was the Genshin damage formula formulated

[lofty wave]

@cobalt blaze sorry for the ping didnt know if this wouldve been good in lounge or here but i have a question

ATK Speed Affects both CA and NA unless specified right?

as in C2 jean will affect your CA speed on charas if im thinking right correct?

[amber olive]

nope ATK SPD only affects Normal Attacks unless specified it benefits Charged Attacks as well. Some characters like itto have built in ATK SPD into his Burst Charged Attack for example (as well as NA ATK SPD from Burst) whereas Razor's Burst just provides the ATK SPD stat which is for NAs only.

[soft drift]

Hiatus fr

[amber olive]

i cant find anything specific to atk spd in the TCL but the fandom page has some stuff
https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Speed

[lofty wave]

then where does jean ATK SPD buff lie in since it doesnt specify NA or CA just ATK SPD

oh wait

[amber olive]

if it just says ATK SPD its normal attacks only

it needs to specify Charged Attacks to affect those as well

keep in mind 15% ATK SPD wont entirely be 15% quicker normal attacks though

because hitlag exists on melee characters and hitlag isnt changed by ATK SPD at all

[small gate]

[fair kite]

When you strike enemies with melee attacks there's the collision between the weapon and the enemy, and that's called the hitlag. It negatively impacts your effective attack speed

Catalysts and Bows do not have to put up with this

[small gate]

Yeah It sad they don’t give ATK SPD more Impact , other game I played ATK SPD have huge Impact , I was hoping that maybe they change flat DEF and ATK with SPD ATK

But there no way they will change that

[lofty wave]

yeah this was just me checking cuz i was playing mouche

wanted to know if i could get faster CAs out of him with C2 jean

[amber olive]

Unfortunately not on the CAs 😔

[small gate]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-cat-no-cry-gif-22962113

[upbeat junco]

rip lyney tc

[sly oriole]

Is it gone because stream is near?

[rough patrol]

its gone because the beda ended

*beta

[small gate]

Mid character = less TC channel time

[amber olive]

Yeah beta ended so tc channels gone

Altho feel free to use here, it is a general tc channel after all

[jovial smelt]

Didn’t we get huge news about lynette this morning? There is no TC channel to talk about it

[clear ivy]

What news

If it's noteworthy just discuss It here if they take an issue that's on them

[clear ivy]

Oooh

So like AMC priority

But actually usable

That's fairly practical

[jovial smelt]

Yup, priority is same as anemo Mc.
Also, The absorption look the same as dendro traveler mushroom

[clear ivy]

Yeah that kinda gives her a use

[jovial smelt]

you have to hit the thing for absorption

which is way different

[clear ivy]

So it's pretty much no fail absorption on demand with better priorities

[jovial smelt]

yeah but an ennemi can easily hit the thing

with an element

[clear ivy]

True since it taunts

[jovial smelt]

For me it’s a huge news that can change a lot about her teams and place in the meta

[clear ivy]

I think it gives her a place in the meta, but it doesn't make her much of a better character

[jovial smelt]

Not sure yet if it’s a good thing or bad thing

[clear ivy]

Like she's basically a shield breaker for me right now

Which is not something I'm looking for a unit to be about

[fallen jetty]

Idk, her Q can still get an element by swirl and enemy by itself, right? Given that she can still taunt, this might happen more often than not

[cursive peak]

This has probs been answered already in lyney tc but what gives more dps increase? First magic or C1?

[jovial smelt]

C1 value depend on the number of CA but with 3CA it’s a 12% increase.
Signature bow is a 8% increase over Aqua, but 28% increase over F2P option

So if you have aqua, then C1 is better, if not then signature is better

Hope it answered your questions

[cursive peak]

It did thanks!

I really just wanna do a tiebreaker on what to wish for, seems like ill be stealing aqua from yelan and just going for C1

[sturdy frigate]

Keep in mind that aqua is a bit awkward with lyney since you need to be close to the enemy for the passive

[cursive peak]

Im running zhongli lyney anyway so should be fine

[pine ivy]

y is lyney tc closed

anyway

is the sig bow great on anybody else ?

[cursive peak]

i assume its great on anyone who runs an element resonance and likes CAs (maybe tighnari/ganyu)

but ganyu freeze really shines with the bow afaik

[pine ivy]

gotcha, ima do some pulls in the weap banner then

[pearl kiln]

also Tighnari if you're doing 3 Dendro i believe

[cursive peak]

the atk annoys me but i know pyro resonance + lyney's a4 passive + bennett will shoot that atk well up into 3k

[quick fiber]

Hey umm apparently new sets are coming out and are better for xiao?
I main wanderer though so i ask you, is the old one still gon be better or the fontaine one for scara?

[signal silo]

Lyney's passive is dmg bonus not atk btw, the atk thing was a translation error

[clear ivy]

The new set gives crit if your hp changes

Your HP shouldn't change as scara

It means your ass i getting beaten

[covert trellis]

you don't really wanna get hit on scara at all and unfortunately his kit isn't good for dodges either so shielder is almost always a must (dodges is just not practical, unless you start getting cons or his signature to pop his passive faster for the free dodge)
on xiao its still on debateable, if you haven't farm the set at all it might be worth it, but not by a lot vs the other current options

could potentially be a generalist set if a future flexible unit drains our hp consistently

[tepid crest]

hey is the 33% c.rate better for xiao or vermillion or scara set still?

[bright lance]

YALL

I JUST CAME UP WITH A REAL GOOD THEORY

[fair kite]

It's 36 now, and we do not know

[small gate]

No for both
this set don't give plunge attack for Xiao
and Scara have his good set that work great with his kit and you got 19.2% with level him .

also you need shield for Scara ..

[tepid crest]

oh no i meant that the c.rate set better than both vermillion and the set scara uses

[sturdy frigate]

I think it was calced that the new set it is 3% better for Xiao assuming full uptime with and bennet

[sturdy frigate]

No, scara doesn't get consistent uptime since U need to take damage

[small gate]

Just for CR ?

[sturdy frigate]

...36 cr is Alota cr...

Also vermilion gives attack buff which isn't as big since Benny gives so much

[tepid crest]

no no im pertaining scara set to the actual set cus i cant remember the name

baically im asking

36 c.rate > vermillion/scara's set ??

[sturdy frigate]

no

on wanderor at least

assuming blackcliff agate, 9/9/9 talents, it does 3% less damage even with full uptime

and also crit ratio is gonna be hard to maintain since you get sooo much cr

[wintry horizon]

is fischl bis golden troupe???

and can someone tell me which characters are good with golden troupe

[fringe bane]

its a straight upgrade on Fischl and Yae too (not as big and more conditional)

its close to Husk on Albedo but should be slightly better

and its good on Nahida if she's not holding deepwood

not sure it's better than gilded tho

[sturdy frigate]

its good on anyone if you have kirara, bennet, and Big Burning Dreams!!!

[clear ivy]

Not sure that set has anything to do with burning, maybe you're talking about maréchaussé

[sturdy frigate]

Ooops, yeah Ur right

Golden troupe is good on heizou if you BELIEVE!!

[abstract phoenix]

What characters will use the new skill dmg artifacts, and which chars will use hp reduction crit artifacts

[clear ivy]

the answer to your first question is the last few messages

the answer to your second question is lyney and possibly xiao

[glad pike]

What artifact set will focalors use based on current leaks?

[tepid crest]

theres currently absolutely no clue as to what her kit is for an artifact fitting

[glad pike]

But there is-

It’s unknown what buffs but it’s been confirmed by really reliable leakers that she makes a big nahida like domain with a “gravity effect” and steals team hp like wolves for those buffs

Including her own hp

And she scales off hp (like most/all hydro users)

[low shale]

💀

[lapis whale]

Can aggregate Kequing have ‘‘em sands?

Is it viable?

[edgy drum]

yes

aggravate scales with em

[fair kite]

Yes, but do make sure to grab some atk buffs in return because aggravate buffs your base damage so it benefits from atk crit electro too

[lapis whale]

Kk I’ll just go atk sands then cause I don’t think I have high enough atk

[fair kite]

What weapon are you running even

[lapis whale]

The one from kazuha story quest

At level 70

She has like 1550 atk

Both weapon and character

[wooden belfry]

even assuming all of the above is true [which is incredbily sus], how are we supposed to suggest a best artifact set without knowing the MVs of her skills

[fair kite]

Based on current leaks? No intel

[glad pike]

Any neuvillete leaks since beta is soon?

Also like I feel like he’s an oceanid

[jovial smelt]

we had some leaks a week ago, but not enough info to really start the theorycraft

[glad pike]

Oh ok but is he a dps or support

[jovial smelt]

From what I understood, he can be played as either off-field hydro applyer or on-field driver

[glad pike]

Ok still not pulling

But like we need focalors leaks

[jovial smelt]

but wait for the numbers to come out during the beta, then we will start making calcs

[glad pike]

Alr

I’ll probably pull him after I get focalors and arle tho

[covert trellis]

Its wise

Just 100% skip him tho

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/959706396440543262.gif?size=160&quality=lossless

[glad pike]

I will probably do that if he ain’t an oceanid

Anyways

[lilac siren]

hii! does lyney require to have his NA leveled up?

[covert trellis]

yes, he's almost pyro ganyu in terms of playability

[lilac siren]

alrighty, what would you say i prioritize leveling up? (like in what order)

[covert trellis]

basics comes first

skill and ultimate doesn't matter, can level them equally

[jovial smelt]

NA > burst > skill

[lilac siren]

okayy tysm! i appreciate it

[glad pike]

Can someone send the Fontaine artifacts

[glad pike]

TYSM

[fallen jetty]

You can check other 4.0 things here: https://ambr.top/en/changelog?v=40

[glad pike]

Alr tysmmm

[edgy drum]

so why are lynette and lyney channels blocked off

[fallen jetty]

No idea, it doesn't seems like mods talk in this chat frequently. It would be better to go asking in #・tc-lounge
They are more active there normally

[lusty raft]

fianwens#0000 (812178562822963210)

Hello everyone,

After long internal discussions, we now announce the following decision:

The Character-TC channel format has had great success in gathering people's interest in the new characters, be it characters that have just been released, or are to be released in the future, which people discuss, deconstruct, and, most importantly, theorycraft about. This is the main intended purpose of those channels, making the channels a great hub for people to get a quick estimate of what the characters can do. With that being said, this unfortunately also doesn't last that long, since - shortly after the character has been roughly understood - the interest in theorycrafting subsides, which causes the channels to become a host for mostly off-topic discussions.

This defeats the original purpose of these channels, hence we have the following announcement to make:

Going forward, Character-TC channels will now only last for the period of the beta in which the respective characters appear in, which usually is a period of 21 days(though there are variations), until the respective Character-TC channels will be closed.

Live TC for new characters will now be done in either #・tc-lounge (for more casual TC) or #・theorycrafting (for more in-depth/serious TC) instead of their respective Character-TC channels.

With that announcement out the way, we will also be closing ⁠#1095402703066243242 earlier than we usually do, due to the aforementioned reasonings above.

Look forward to more Character-TC channels in the future.

Quoted by

@dusk token

Author

@hard wharf from [#・tc-announcements (Jump)](#858129087376523274 message)

May 27, 2023, 4:08 PM

[edgy drum]

i feel like this is really dumb considering the patch isn't out uet but ok

[jovial smelt]

I feel like most people don't dare to ask questions in this channel XD

and there is no way I will read all msg in tc lounge

[fallen jetty]

Yeah, and #・tc-thoughts don't have units thoughts too

[jolly hemlock]

so about the golden troupe set,is it better on yae than 2pc gilded 2pc thunder?

[jovial smelt]

yeah better than 2p gilded 2pc thunder, but similar to 4p gilded
It depends a lot if you play on-field or off-field

golden troupe gain value with constelation too

[jolly hemlock]

in like an aggrevate team with fischl nahida and jean for example,shes pretty off field if u dont use her burst every rot right>

[jovial smelt]

well you play her a lot on-field with this team, so 4pc gilded should still be a bit better (like 2-3%)

[glad pike]

Golden troup would still be better because you still get a 40 percent dmg bonus if on or off field

And 60 percent it off

Not a huge diff

[jovial smelt]

do you have a source for claiming this? or it is just your thought?

I have seen multiple calcs about it

[glad pike]

My thought

Even if onfield

[jovial smelt]

also, it's not 40% as on-field and 60% as off-field

[glad pike]

Still a 40 percent es dmg bonus

[jovial smelt]

it's 70% off-field

and 45% on-field

and also, even on-field, you can still have the 70% bonus for 2sec

if you quickswap

[glad pike]

Oh that’s even better

But my yae is my dps

Basically hb dps

With koko nahida and focalors

[jovial smelt]

but you are comparing this number with what?

yae E is not even half of her damage as on-field dps

[glad pike]

With say 2p atk bonus and electro bonus

[jovial smelt]

so comparing the number with make no sense

[glad pike]

Oh she’s still a skill build

But I use her main attack to proc hyperblooms

Cause sometimes her skill leaves a few

And to get some extra dmg in

[jovial smelt]

well, if you play her in hyperbloom, then it's a bit different since you won't proc a lot of aggravate

[glad pike]

I usually do both

[jovial smelt]

(i don't recommend yae hyperbloom btw)

[glad pike]

(It’s actually rlly good btw)

Wait what’s a good hyperbloom dmg

[jovial smelt]

kuki is better for this role

[covert trellis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLQfDpSv4Ew

Lyney destroyed @unreal minnow

[unique ibex]

A fair analys for sure

i still want hoyo to make something like kokomi, where u switch the way you think about building a character

[covert trellis]

koko-meme? you mean either full HP or EM?

lol

or like...meme crit kokomeme?

don't think thats the best example, i guess Xinyan exists but she's a failed experiment

[low shale]

Tecnically Lyney kinda does that

You kinda only wanna chase for CDMG

[unique ibex]

True, but it stills falls into the crit build

with kokomi you literally does the opposite

[low shale]

Imagine a character with ER MV scalings

[unique ibex]

MV?

[fair kite]

They'd just have to be split scaling

[sullen scroll]

[sturdy frigate]

imagine a character that scales with current hp rather than max

[fair kite]

At full HP it makes no difference

Just use Zhongli

[sturdy frigate]

Mmm, but think about the POTENTIAL, with self damaging buffs or effects that activate on taking damage

[autumn basin]

Does anyone have artifact counts for C6 Wanderer? I'm wondering how much Ayato's set is stronger than the Wanderer's set

[small gate]

Ayato set Is better If you ping Is less than 30

If not then stay with wanderer set

[autumn basin]

Yes, I know this and I have a ping of 10 . I was just wondering how much better

thanks for the answer

[small gate]

You’re welcome.. I will send the calc when I come back home

[small gate]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/844259912375599105/1138453526096392253/image.png

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g5GmBxq8To0Nmld3njQQQF7OsXjtnIgWdqPQUc1-Grk/htmlview#gid=1375822898

[small gate]

you need also R5 with good ping

Calc from @ Spxxx#3266

[subtle egret]

how is freminet with shenhe

[south oar]

Bad

[fair kite]

How much of a contributor is Tulaytullah's attack speed bonus specifically to Wanderer's damage

[south oar]

Did they slow hydro mc ult?

[clear ivy]

no

[kind escarp]

would 4 piece golden troupe be somewhat viable on raiden if i were to put her in a team comp with freminet/rosaria/xingqiu??

just to contribute to more off-field damage if i wanna run freminet as the main dps !!