・lore-basement

[odd thicket]

Which is kinda what happened in a space and time for you

Traveller tried to change history, bur dieryieth getting the key from a traveller had already happened

[modern plover]

It’s also the reason why I stop being able to follow hsr plot. I ended up merely scrolling through the dialogues. I forgot most of the plot. End of 3.x is also the patches I was heavily burn out from genshin. Most of its events doesn’t retain in my mind.

That and the fact 3.8 environment is all green

[patent cloud]

During what quest in 3.3 was it that Nicole started talking to us?

I forget the context

[odd thicket]

Yes

[modern plover]

It doesn’t have many retains lệ landmark as far as I remember

[odd thicket]

Scaramouche erased himself

And traveller destroyed a vase before hand that didnt change when scara was back

[patent cloud]

Right. But notice what Nicole says.

Scara erasing himself might not be permanent.

He is not a god. He tried to tamper with things.

But if Nicole is right, that might not hold for long.

[odd thicket]

I think she means a descender

Only descender can change the fate of the world

[patent cloud]

And keep in mind the interlude teaser.

Just because you accessed the mainframe and deleted your browser history doesn't mean the actual scribe, Istaroth, has forgotten.

[odd thicket]

Albedo reflection shows his beta / concept art hairstyle

[patent cloud]

btw
what do you think about this theory:
nicole is one of the most diehard anti-HP fanatics in teyvat

[odd thicket]

idts

its unclear

[patent cloud]

if shes a conscious seelie who has been alive for many milennia, i think she would rightfully be pretty angry with HP

it's why i think she's probably besties with rhinedottir

and why rhinedottir would be so keen on helping nicole with her body

[patent cloud]

I have no idea how they'll justify a playable Sandrone ngl

she seems like an awful person lmao

[odd thicket]

Maybe

Some seelies defied others didnt

Nabu defied

But LOTN did not

[patent cloud]

also

[patent cloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhNlHQydC-M

she makes sculptures

stone or ice sculptures (geo or cryo?)

[odd thicket]

Dude why is reddit and youtube crying about black panther

Like he was banned earlier back then too

But even now ?

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-wakanda-still-alive-im-gif-18259232

[patent cloud]

cuz bro deserves it

[odd thicket]

Dude they nerfed him and didnt fix his crucial vibranium mark bugs back then

Like
Is he still broken despite it

Or are his players just that good

[patent cloud]

he's broken

and they're pretty good by now

[odd thicket]

Like

You cant be aggressive as bp

He waits for openings

Are people just terrible vs a BP

[patent cloud]

it just takes like 5x more skill to counter him than to play him optimally

[odd thicket]

Nah his optimal play is hard

You need to bait out support abilties

[patent cloud]

https://reddit.com/r/marvelrivals/comments/1m8yzng/top_500_player_answers_why_ban_bp_when_people_ask/

[odd thicket]

Thats just team discoordination

Dive dies with a strong coordinated team

BP has to scrape for ult charge and pray he doesnt get focused on

[patent cloud]

have you actually seen good bps tho?

like

[patent cloud]

https://reddit.com/r/marvelrivals/comments/1m0bpc2/i_think_i_understand_why_bps_getting_banned_lately/

[odd thicket]

Everyone here played terribly

Esp the star lord

Again, people cant figure out anti dive

[patent cloud]

again

[odd thicket]

I wanna defend my mans

[patent cloud]

the bp only has to be somewhat competent

[odd thicket]

Also

Is namor good now

Xoz he hard counters bp

[patent cloud]

for the somewhat competent bp to not win, the enemy team has to have 2 GOOD players that aren't the victim

a spiderman has to be super goddamn good to get the results that an average BP can get

and they have the same role

[sly bison]

Not that hard honestly

We got someone who literally committed serial murders and wiped out the stability of significan clans in Inazuma in the roster

[odd thicket]

BP has to be pickier with diving no ? He cant run away like spidey

Like

[patent cloud]

https://reddit.com/r/marvelrivals/comments/1lobq2n/beating_a_dead_horse_but_bp_is_bad_just_counter/

[sly bison]

The ‘worst’ thing Sabdrone did was made sure a jackass’s tongue was cut out and left him mindbroken

[odd thicket]

Few months back he was called the tickle monster

What happened

[sly bison]

And this guy wasn’t exactly an innocent dude either

[patent cloud]

ppl got mildly competent

[odd thicket]

The cat reels about bp was a warning

[patent cloud]

look at this one #・lore-basement message
like, this isnt ok lmao

and that's not even fastest combo ive seen

[odd thicket]

https://youtube.com/shorts/y35fbP5eeFM?feature=shared

[patent cloud]

6 month old

[odd thicket]

I thibk the bp died right after

[odd thicket]

Its okay coz its jeff but i agree for other supports

[odd thicket]

https://youtube.com/shorts/SK-lijK-LPA?feature=shared

[patent cloud]

7 months old

[odd thicket]

Isnt it the same case now

[patent cloud]

no

BP was picked in the grand finals of the ignite tournament

by actual pros, against luna loki

the $3M tournament

that's the worlds best players, who know exactly how to counter BP, and yet get BP picked against them

[odd thicket]

And the BP team won v

?

Dang

[patent cloud]

nah, but not because of bp

he did rly good

[odd thicket]

So he really is just that strkng

Strong

[patent cloud]

at the absolute top level he is more used as a strategic surprise pick

not as someone you just stay on all the time

he's brought out as a "oh look, they have a team vulnerability"

[odd thicket]

Ah

https://youtube.com/shorts/6xCpa5usKIY?feature=shared

[patent cloud]

[odd thicket]

This makes me wanna return to the game but my hardware kinda dated for this

But yeah i agree he needs a rework

[odd thicket]

What of this ?

[patent cloud]

https://reddit.com/r/marvelrivals/comments/1mbuu81/the_reason_why_bp_and_spiderman_are_constantly/

especially this comment:

To this day, Sombra has the lowest win rate in the game and the rework gutted her, but she still has a 90%+ ban rates across all ranks

I have never seen a Sombra in comp since bans got introduce, and you can easily explain that with the fact that her invisible-hack-assasinate-teleport gameplay loop is inherently infuriating

Meaning that even if Spidey gets nerfed to oblivion, he'd still get complaints from players

now imagine if Sombra didn't have a bad winrate, but in fact >55%

that's BP

[odd thicket]

Tickle monster no more

So hes done either way

The playerbase would have strong feelings against playing him

[patent cloud]

i imagine he'll be made harder to play

sorta how magik works rn
magik also has crazy good combos, but is WAY harder to play than bp

[odd thicket]

She was always harder to play but

She was a brawler last i played

[patent cloud]

she is

[odd thicket]

She can dive or brawl

Bp cant brawl hes too squishy

[patent cloud]

how does nicole know about changes in irminsul btw?

and how does she know so quickly

[odd thicket]

most of the higher order beings/ gods/ angels have their methods to bypass irminsu

irnminsul

dottore had his clones

and other methods

[patent cloud]

this isn't bypassing tho

[odd thicket]

nahida her story book

[patent cloud]

she's aware of changes

[odd thicket]

its carrying erased history through the changes

[patent cloud]

like shes plugged into the matrix test program and notices when some code is changed

[odd thicket]

Nah

Nobody except people who have access to irminsul like istaroth and nahida can do it

[odd thicket]

Nicole is a storyteller and ofc could notice histories changing

[odd thicket]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPantherMainsMR/s/GVR5TlxUKF

I found this funny

[worldly rain]

Irminsul was probably established post moon sister fall

And angel existed before that so suffice to say that the surviving angle (who didn't become seelie) like Nicole would know about irminsul

[patent cloud]

was just about to bring this up
nicole is of draconic origin
would irminsul even do anything to her? is she even bound to teyvat's fate laws?

[patent cloud]

that looks more like modern BP play

[worldly rain]

Angels' illusion was broken by the arrival of voyager
This could also mean that angels were made free from the fate system
Of course most of them were cursed but the select few who remain do remember all like
Nabu shared forbidden knowledge with deshret for example
Same goes for sybilla and remus...

Nicole is also a member of hex so that's extra "immunity"

We will know all the technicality of course in nod krai but for now it safe to assume angles are above the fate system

[odd thicket]

irminsul was present with them we see nibelung burning it down

[worldly rain]

Where?

[odd thicket]

in that one mural

wait

[worldly rain]

Ochkanatlan?

[odd thicket]

yeah

leylines are the core of PO's teyvat

in natlan infiltrating their inferior replacement was teh abyss's goal

they couldnt do it to the other leylines

[patent cloud]

seelies existed before PO even came to teyvat

[odd thicket]

no

they were his creations

[patent cloud]

pretty sure that's incorrect

[odd thicket]

i think they are still bound to it
they had their shot at escaping fate but failed

[worldly rain]

Right but Voyager breaking the shackles of illusion remains
That's the point where Angels gain freedom so to speak

[odd thicket]

wouldnt make sense if angels escaped fate and 7000 years on escaping fate is still a huge thing even for sinners

[odd thicket]

ye

they gain autonomy

[worldly rain]

Seelie are cursed angels
Angels were created alongside humans by the shades

[odd thicket]

but still bound to fate

[worldly rain]

So nicole being free from irminsul might then be attributed to hex then

I guess we'll find out in nod krai

[odd thicket]

or her own

she is an excellent story teller/ chronicler

[worldly rain]

Yeah there's another angel who remember everything
She also uses story

Could be the case then

[odd thicket]

another?

@patent cloud do you think this bp propaganda would work

[worldly rain]

Caledon mare, horse adept of liyue

[odd thicket]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPantherMainsMR/s/4StoD2kbWb

[odd thicket]

about her
are we sure she still around ?

[worldly rain]

Yes

[odd thicket]

like shes an angel who uses songs instead doesnt she

[worldly rain]

Moonlight bamboo book refers to her

[odd thicket]

yeeah but it could mean she sacrificed herself sometime later

[patent cloud]

guys

[worldly rain]

She lives in mountain hidden from the gods gazes

[odd thicket]

say during the cataclysm ?

[patent cloud]

imagine if 6.4 in liyue's arc of the coming moon calamity
they shadowdrop celadon mare banner

[odd thicket]

its gonna be north of the oceanid village isnt it

[worldly rain]

We thought this God gaze is zhongli but now it's clear that it's heavenly principles

[odd thicket]

or would it be blackcliff forge

[odd thicket]

yeah

[odd thicket]

maybe

[worldly rain]

Somewhere in the mountains which mountain though well

[patent cloud]

nah it's gonna be ping i think

celadon mare might be in snez

we only have light references to mare rn, no hype

[odd thicket]

ping can wait for longer

[patent cloud]

https://youtu.be/eYUj8oGGwJY?t=384

[odd thicket]

celadon mare would be our first angel character

[patent cloud]

6:20 for source that seelies might be draconic in nature

it's ashikai theory ofc

but still

[odd thicket]

they might be, but like egeria

[worldly rain]

Nicole is coming don't think they want first playable angel to be someone else

[odd thicket]

still PO's creations

[odd thicket]

true

[patent cloud]

noe

[odd thicket]

yeu

[patent cloud]

the moons were made by nibelung

[odd thicket]

the seelies had their palaces in teh stars

*amongst the stars

[worldly rain]

The thing is that pyro sovereign also created "dragons" But we all know they're not real dragons but just sentience AI "dragons"

Similarly moon sister might not be real dragons but just sentience AI system to govern the cycle

[patent cloud]

giant spherical computers

that nibelung chokeslammed once he came back

[worldly rain]

Yeah with a bit of personality

[odd thicket]

technically all of them are dragons

they could take a flesh form via phlogiston tampering

[patent cloud]

nibelung talking to a moonsister upon his return

he smashed his space computers into bits and pieces for their betrayal

[worldly rain]

"Severely wounded in the great war of vengeance, the usurper had their functions ruined"

• from neuv character story

Ashikai points out this function might be moons sisters which makes sense because PO was using them to control teyvat cycle before the war of vengeance

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/son-father-fight-father-beating-son-prank-with-dad-dad-beating-fighting-gif-2364257897933945579

nibelung to his daughters

[worldly rain]

Which also mean they are similar to dragon lords aka sentience ai

[odd thicket]

and even more evidenced as PO only crudely split phlogiston into 7

[patent cloud]

right
the OG methods of control that nibelung used were ruined by nibelung upon his return
so PO could no longer use them
instead he had to get real crafty with his new system

[odd thicket]

while moon sisters had a purer form of control

[patent cloud]

PO and his shades reverse engineered many of the systems nibelung made

into what we see today

[odd thicket]

to suit their purposes

[worldly rain]

Yeah when moon sisters fell PO went after the remaining sovereigns powers and that's when thrones were established

[patent cloud]

ya

[odd thicket]

all except the fake skies and irminsul

[patent cloud]

not nearly as advanced tho it seems

[odd thicket]

wait is this confirmed

[worldly rain]

No

[odd thicket]

i assumed the throne was always theirs

[patent cloud]

irminsul could also be a reverse engineered creation

it's probably just a really powerful computer

[odd thicket]

its after the moon sisters died he had to open that bank savings of sovereign elemental authority (not domain authority)

[odd thicket]

it is

[odd thicket]

but the leylines are PO's creations not the Dragon's

[patent cloud]

leylines yes those are new

but irminsul is probably based on the moons

if they are indeed giga computers

[odd thicket]

apep's materials imply dragons didnt use vegetation all that much

[worldly rain]

Thrones need well someone to use them right which right now are archons

And archons were not there before the archon war happened

And vision are also taken from archon authority aka thrones

So it makes sense that thrones did not exist before moon sisters fell because before moon wheel existed instead of vision

[odd thicket]

idts

irminsul is related to the fake sky

and it holds and processes memories and moments

wait 1 min

i got a perfect item desc

[patent cloud]

i do wonder tho
PO must have been extraordinarily powerful in his prime

nibelung is like a planetary dragon god

and nibelung in his prime had the abyss on his side

and PO STILL WON

how tf you beat that bro

[odd thicket]

dragons themselves held memories of all things

irminsul cannot be their creation

[patent cloud]

wait

is irminsul a reverse engineered dragon?

[odd thicket]

by stealing women's hardwork and taking their contribution as your own

[patent cloud]

artificial dragon

[odd thicket]

the voyager assissted in taking down nibelung

[odd thicket]

possible

[patent cloud]

after voyager saw nibelung was using abyss right

before then, voyager was on nibelung's side

[odd thicket]

i mean
nibelung entered using the abyss

[odd thicket]

no, voyager was on voyager's side

she didnt know or care much ffor nibelung after her arrival

[patent cloud]

didnt voyager warn nibelung?

like originally

she was so impressed by teyvat and nibelung's work that she didnt want to see it destroyed

like so many other worlds

[odd thicket]

yes
but when she returend to check the whole world changed

[patent cloud]

sure, but originally she was very much on his side

enough to get personally involved

but once she saw nibelung was using the abyss

[worldly rain]

Tbh PO being strong depends on how they want to go over how the war with dragons actually happened

Like PO got control of moons right which effectively made him administrator of teyvat

Now did he physically best all sovereign?
who knows he might have just used the moons authority to take control of teyvat energy source and also not like sovereign died or anything..

[patent cloud]

that must have been a huge betrayal

since it's probably the abyss that ruined those worlds the voyager warned him about

at that point all bets were off and voyager was on PO's side

[patent cloud]

fair, but the giant abyss dragon still had to be dealt with

[worldly rain]

It's like if I get access to nuclear weapon doesn't mean I can beat all creatures of earth using my fist but I can sure destroy then all

[patent cloud]

keep in mind
without nibelung there, PO still conquered teyvat

including the moon sisters, the dragon sovereigns and all

you dont do that if you don't hold all the power to win in the first place

[odd thicket]

he killed just 1 of them so far to our knowledge

as well

[patent cloud]

since otherwise the moon sisters would have just beat his ass

[odd thicket]

he couldnt kill xiuhcoatl

[worldly rain]

Yes he's still first descender but his physical strength might be exaggerated that's all

[odd thicket]

He could have convinced them that he is better

[worldly rain]

Also dragons think moon sisters betrayed them so depending on how the event happened he might've just seduced them

[odd thicket]

Or “reasoned” with him

[patent cloud]

bro aura farmed his way to victory 😔

[worldly rain]

Well moon sisters had a common lover in lore lol

[odd thicket]

The stars and the moons loved the “Morning Star” after all

Ye

[worldly rain]

And this common lover might as well be PO

[odd thicket]

Morning Star is the surname for the devil

[worldly rain]

But objectively speaking he also created 4 shades out of himself
And shades are powerful af so his strength wouldn't be that exaggerated either

[odd thicket]

Whom all the demons in ars goetia serve

[odd thicket]

Hes the only one with 4 shades

Everyone else has at most 1

Surtologi himself only has 1

[worldly rain]

? There are no other shades

[odd thicket]

Ig layla could be considered as having one

[odd thicket]

I had this theory back in 4.2 when narwhal came out

I reasoned that the knight we fight was surtologi’s shade

His track is called “silhouette” of catastrophe

Catastrophe is one of Surtr’s monickers

A shade is the person’s … shadow
Follows theirs movements and mannerisms

[worldly rain]

But we know that kinght was not surtologi shade or anything but the narwhal subconscious manifestation to minick the one who defeated it or something

[odd thicket]

The narwhal did have surtologi’s power within it

[patent cloud]

just a shadow of him is able to do this https://youtu.be/jvXVmvW8ZQw?t=324

5:24

with barely any effort as well...

just summon a localized black hole

[worldly rain]

Also PO was androgynous in nature when they arrived in teyvat
By splitting themselves into shades they seperated their gender so to speak

[odd thicket]

The abyssal knight could just be the Surtologi power within narhwal manifesting at its distress

[patent cloud]

also btw

notice the UI during Naberius' scenes

it all looks like a computer

[odd thicket]

And gave each shadow of theirs a role

On their dreamscape theatre

[odd thicket]

Do you think it worked like Furina and Focalors

I cant believe i didnt relate it here at all

[worldly rain]

"It's a subconscious instinct. Any intelligent being who longs for his level of strength is bound to mimic his appearance. It's a natural response after encountering someone as powerful as Master."

[odd thicket]

Hm

[worldly rain]

Whale is already strong and now they got beat so they started mimicking surtologi

Also the guy is skirk story who stole skirk powers also used that power to mimick surtologi

[odd thicket]

So its not a “shade”

Wair

Did you fight the bakunawa after the world quest

I think there is some interesting lore regarding to shades in the notes it drops afterwards

[worldly rain]

No

But I can look up the notes on ambr

Whats the name?

[odd thicket]

Yeah pls do

[odd thicket]

Well
I forgor the name
But i think it goes like abyss corroded/ black corroded piece of paper

[patent cloud]

also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsL6bnw_wbs

this is a CRAZY video

mfw another ashikai video blows my mind

[worldly rain]

Ok so 2nd note mentioned one woman named "Nanas"

Who helped Stanley

But I don't see the connection with shade here at least not explicitly

[odd thicket]

Its the third note

[worldly rain]

3rd one doesn't have anything

It's just Stanley dying lol

[odd thicket]

Nah

It has bakunawa eat its own segments

[worldly rain]

What does that have do with shades though?

[odd thicket]

Like bakunawa is able to “fragment” itself

Into multiple large copies of itself

And also sustain on itself

And its existence is transcendental to those of Shade powers

Has me think this creation of Gold is able to abuse the power of reason with its limited intelligence

[worldly rain]

Uh we know the reason bakunawa got split is because of sanhaj exploding him into pieces not because he can fragment itself...

And then those individual pieces because he's immortal monster would then fully grow into separate bakunawas

And that's what Stanley saw one fragment which grew larger eating the smaller ones..

[odd thicket]

Fair enough

[patent cloud]

DUDE this video is so goddamn cool

[odd thicket]

I did discount Tenoch and Sanhaj’s gambit

[worldly rain]

"Lacking in intelligence, its actions are solely devoted to an instinct to devour. It is capable of infinite growth and is functionally immortal.
However, unlike "Gold"'s other creations, its immortality does not stem from the power of "Life," but rather a more transcendent form of Abyssal power that may be beyond even our Order's understanding. "

It's not intelligence at all lol

[river valve]

Hello chat i chose this as my new cave

[worldly rain]

It's pure instinct

[odd thicket]

Would it be possible to use the authority over teyvat with pure instinct ?

[patent cloud]

tldr:
hexenzirkel witches are aware teyvat's a storybook world and they want to help all the creatures in it get back control over their own fate

ergo, give them back their real freedom

[worldly rain]

It's abyssal powers so by nature yes

[patent cloud]

now why would venti side with the witches on this when he's part of the system?

because he's the god of freedom

[odd thicket]

And i wonder how weird its creation was for even Vedrfolnir to guess about it

[odd thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/talos-welcome-welcome-to-the-family-godfather-gif-7108721439249611471

[patent cloud]

bro is so into freedom he is willing to chokeslam his own creator to uphold his ideals

that's my boi venti

[odd thicket]

It also proved to be impossible for Istaroth to confront

It corrupted every moment of Mare Jivari

[patent cloud]

rhinedottir, genuinely tho what are you doing

😔

[worldly rain]

There was one detective character in simulanka that knew he was a character inside a story and his entire arc was him being frustrated not being able to do anything about it because he was bound by fate

[patent cloud]

yeeeep

[worldly rain]

Very similar to archons lol

[patent cloud]

crucially tho

as soon as he did that, he was allowed to leave

WHICH MEANS

will istaroth LET THEM ALL GO???

[odd thicket]

It was in Heizou’s anecdote wasnt it

[patent cloud]

once they realize the truth

[odd thicket]

Whos to say shes not in on it

[worldly rain]

Yeah his powers literally bend space time lol he like irl black hole so to speak

[river valve]

Istaroth is just cool

[patent cloud]

is that what this whole setup is about
ferry ppl to come to the conclusion themselves that they're all in a dream world
and at the moment of revelation and the humans all want to leave, istaroth will be there to grant them their wish?

[odd thicket]

Tsaritsa should just feed the bakunawa the seven gnoses and launch him onto Celestia

[patent cloud]

waaaaiiit a minute is that why Naberius and Ronova had to be dealt with so to speak?

[worldly rain]

Then they all die because dude's also dumb as rock and will just eat everything lmao

[odd thicket]

Idk, if he did alchemical keto eating he can turn out smart

[patent cloud]

Naberius is the OG super loyal shade it seems
she does not wanna give humans back their freedom

so what do the witches do? chokeslam her

[odd thicket]

Scaling Narwhal and Bakunawa is going to be fun

[patent cloud]

naberius is done for, for all intents and purposes

Ronova is still not part of the plan, and seems unlikely to join in
so how will they deal with her?

is Ronova the sacrificial lamb in nod krai?

[worldly rain]

One destroys the entire space because it's hungry
Other bends the time itself because he's angry

[patent cloud]

will the fatui kill a god plan end up killing the shade of death herself, leaving the witch's plan of freeing the world open to succeed?

[odd thicket]

Idts

[patent cloud]

since asmoday, istaroth and rhinedottir are all in on it

[odd thicket]

The rules can be made more relaxed for humans

[odd thicket]

No info regarding that

[patent cloud]

yeah, it could be that they want the fate system to be dismantled and allow humans to be able to choose

[odd thicket]

Either that or PO himself

[patent cloud]

but like, Ronova is a massive roadblock here

she is giga powerful

[worldly rain]

Ronova dying means no longer curse of immortality which might be the goal of pierro anyway dude wants to rip but can't

[patent cloud]

and i would not be surprised if Ronova is able to kill the other shades

[patent cloud]

pierro has a very specific grudge against her yes

bro has a SINGLE PURPOSE

to kill* the gods

[worldly rain]

Seeing that niberius literally turned oceanids into humans and got punished for it
I doubt she hates humans but definitely can see her falling out of heavenly principles favour

Gold also found the heart of neberius which is strange like why would you put your heart out like that

Unless you want someone to devour it

[patent cloud]

could just be punishment tho tbh

[worldly rain]

Oh true we don't know the nature of punishment

[patent cloud]

so basically

everyone except ronova is in on it

shes the final roadblock
problem is, shes the fucking god of death

😭

turns out her power set is rather dangerous

remember, shes the one who suggests that they should intervene

and the others are like...well if you say so....

[worldly rain]

If you assume "reason" to be metaphor for PO
Just like life, death, time and space are for shades then this opening lines from shades teaser says a lot

"Life/death/time/space abides no reason"

Which indirectly implies all 4 shades have their own goal and no longer follow PO willingly... They're only there because "rules" don't permit them otherwise

[patent cloud]

they would not dare question her idea, out of fear of spilling the beans

[worldly rain]

And would ya look at that all shades have done something to break/create loopholes around this "rules"

[patent cloud]

true
but ronova still doesnt seem very in on it

also look at the istaroth in the tree scene

how ronova is like "well why not tell us earlier next time?"

meanwhile istaroth knew all along that asmoday wasnt there

same with spotting pierro looking at ronova

gosh that video recontextualized everything for me
it paints rhinedottir in a different light

and makes her potential alliance with istaroth make way more sense

[worldly rain]

Yeah she's least suspicious shade so far
Although her action in natlan can be interpreted as her tagging along
Her saying she no longer cares and allowing captain to not create a paradox which ultimately helped natlan

[patent cloud]

problem is ronova is kinda needed for the plan to not fall apart

they either need to convince her somehow, or get rid of her

shes way too strong an enemy otherwise

[worldly rain]

They brushed it off by presenting her as not caring enough for fate of humanity
So when lotn made captain take mav place she did not protest and went along

Of course it might just be thr case that she genuinely does not care about teyvat and just doing her duty cause she's bound by rules

[patent cloud]

i think she cares

but is rly scared of punishment

she was reprimanded once and we dunno what form that took

but we also know naberius got HELLA punished one time

and ronova is probably scared to suffer a similar fate as naberius

[worldly rain]

Yeah might just be that
She could easily remove curse of immortality but she fears the consequences because niberius has already been made an example

[patent cloud]

yeah

meanwhile istaroth over here NEVER punished

she babygirl'd her way past any and all retribution

[worldly rain]

Istaroth does things in a hidden manner so to speak
Like take bsam that's her work literally tells forbidden knowledge lol

[patent cloud]

bsam?

[worldly rain]

Before sun and moon

Enka book about PO and dragons

[patent cloud]

@odd thicket @worldly rain
Ronova: "I'm worried about that Pierro guy."
Rhinedottir: "Naaaaah I'm sure he's fine."

Pierro POV meanwhile:

bro is about as not-fine as it gets 😭

[odd thicket]

Obsessed af

[worldly rain]

Homdgcat updated lore on artifact and weapons
Interesting stuff in there although bunch of wrong translation still exist

[odd thicket]

oh ?

[worldly rain]

Yeah got updated today with missing en translation
Although I wouldn't fully rely on them for now
Still would wait for pre load for clearer picture

[odd thicket]

thats still 3 weeks away

[worldly rain]

You can still read it and get general info but some words are wrong and missing

At the very least you'll get the gist of the lore so it's still worth a read

[patent cloud]

@odd thicket https://youtu.be/jvXVmvW8ZQw?t=247

4:08

notice:
Istaroth brings up the idea that Asmoday could have switched sides to Ronova. She looks apprehensive bringing it up (sits down and folds hands on knees etc).
Rhinedottir then immediately says "better than being devoured". Almost as if she's telling Ronova to join their side or risk being devoured?

Ronova then says: "Just switched sides? You make it sound like such a trivial affair."
Notice the framing here, it's Istaroth and Rhinedottir both flanking Ronova.

Like they're cornering her.

Ronova then says such a thing is "Unthinkable." Then immediately the camera pans to her wringing her hands, as if she's considering it.

This trailer is so fire, holy

[lost quail]

I made a sexuality hc tier list wanna see?

[odd thicket]

Tier list ?? Anyway go ahead

[odd thicket]

She was just like them but got busted first

[odd thicket]

If not suggesting swapping sides they are testing her

Gauging her reaction

[lost quail]

Where do I put it?

[odd thicket]

Here itself

Hoping other writers join in

[median elm]

what was this about the mare jivari and bakunawa?

and enjou my goodness

i was clicking through the world quest way too fast cause i thought it was just some stupid quest about the cactus

[odd thicket]

Well

The notes you find at the tent explain a lot more

Same with the chamber of the enigmas

[queen prawn]

Not a good idea since it isn't lore related or theory

[odd thicket]

Well, mini community

They did say each thread has an unrelated mini community

When reshuffling

Best they are not disturbed as much

and tbh fanfiction isnt that far divorced from the discussions here

[odd thicket]

so yelan is going to nod krai next

to meet up with nefer

[lilac coral]

It's fine, we've done the same before just for the fun of it

The channel has never been 100% lore anyway

Just as long as things don't get out of hand

[queen prawn]

[queen prawn]

Why her specifically

Haven't done the final one

[lilac coral]

Was it said during the quest?

[odd thicket]

Nefer is the lady of the consortium of secrets

[lilac coral]

Ah

[odd thicket]

Well

[queen prawn]

Oh

[odd thicket]

Nefer bio in the wiki says shes deals in secrets and stories at nod krai

Shes also leader of the voynich guild

Iirc

[lilac coral]

Gotcha

[odd thicket]

Yelan and Nefer have the same pensive look

[lilac coral]

So intelligence officer in the same vein as the house of the hearth?

Which could entice yelan with her work

[odd thicket]

Like a private consulting firm but yeah

[odd thicket]

No they said its to share info and set boundaries

[lilac coral]

Ah okay

Also, is the quest long?

I know there's only like 5 days left to it

[odd thicket]

No

[lilac coral]

Cool

[odd thicket]

Its pretty short

Its basically yelan sq2

The boss npc has a very detailed model

Shocked me

Man, Nod krai camt come soon enough

[queen prawn]

?

[odd thicket]

Its in the sixth stage

[queen prawn]

I'll do it later

[queen prawn]

The boss used the local legend moveset

But the model is definitely unique

[reef axle]

aight, now we know who to blame

[patent cloud]

@odd thicket Honestly, Durin might be one of the most interesting characters tbh.

If the whole "Teyvat is a storybook world" thesis is correct, then what Durin has gone through is VERY unique.

Since his soul has basically experienced multiple layers of abstraction within this storybook world.

Since part of his soul comes from Simulanka.

[median elm]

https://tenor.com/view/hmmm-shook-shocked-gif-13010143

[odd thicket]

Yep

[odd thicket]

about time to visit tsurimi island

wait these all lead to electro seelies after finishing this puzzle

huh

lead to a luxurious chest at least

Is this a reference to the three seelie we see in the one time inazuman domains ?

[lilac coral]

I can't remember what it was, but the mural's function was partly to show where the chests and stuff were

The writing on the walls translated to a poem

That more or less mentioned the moon sisters iirc

Or just the moon in general

It's been so long that I've just forgotten

[odd thicket]

There was a poem and it was translated??

[lilac coral]

Something of the sort

Even in your screenshot you can see the words on the left wall

It was something about chaste boys and girls

[odd thicket]

So i looked it up

[lost quail]

Mavuika ‘s so lucky

[odd thicket]

The one about pure boys and girls was regarding the moon powers me thinks

But the special room with three murals had a more interesting one

[lost quail]

We should look for lore stuff together one day

That would be so fun

[odd thicket]

The middle mural says heaven is no longer watching or alive

So this was a foreshadow of Neuvillette saying it ruined their functions

At the least, or it can be far more like PO being crippled to the point of barely functioning

[lost quail]

Oh you said I can put this here

If you disagree with anything that’s perfectly ok

This was just fun

[odd thicket]

And this charade the shades orchestrated till the cataclysm where PO either died or had to go under to save himself

[odd thicket]

The chasm ones are really interesting , its either that or hypostasises for me

[lost quail]

Putting XQ in the gay category I changed my mind about him

[odd thicket]

I noticed that the boss floor used for hypostasis have the symbols of all 4 shades

[lost quail]

We should go there then, I haven’t seen any of them and I wanna know where they are

[odd thicket]

Its mostly the upturned city

It seems that the ancient civilisation eventually split in two

While under PO’s rule

Most of them turned to the moon

[lost quail]

oh there was a alot of khanrien lore there

[odd thicket]

Some turned to the abyss following Nibelung’s defeat

[odd thicket]

Only in that one quest

[lost quail]

O

[odd thicket]

Moon civilisations all longed to gaze at the sky

While this one being turned upside down could be a sign that they turned to the abyss

Afterall right beneath the nail there is an abyssal space we navigate with Xiao and Yelan

And it is described as a “dark corridor”

Same as spiral abyss floors 1-8

Poor zhiqong likely perished here

Years ago

[odd thicket]

Thoma ???

[lost quail]

YES

[odd thicket]

Also, kinich in pan surprised me

Keqing too

Wont jean be wuh luh wuh

[lost quail]

I feel like they wouldn’t have a preference

Jean tho, you might be right

[odd thicket]

I was iffy on shenhe first then i understood your vision

[lost quail]

I didn’t review this before I sent it

[lost quail]

YESSSSS

[odd thicket]

You could put furina in a category of her own

[lost quail]

Lolol what would it be? lol

Lemme fix some stuff

[odd thicket]

After the archon quest shes been allowed to grow for the first time in 500 years

Not needing to wear the mask of focalors

[odd thicket]

Tbh

Her story is so queer not queer

But queer

[odd thicket]

Chiori is ace wuh luh wuh

To me

[odd thicket]

Aloy is wuh luh wuh too btw

[lost quail]

Wait canonically? Aloy? Or hc?

I have never played Zero dawn

[odd thicket]

Aloy

[odd thicket]

Me neither

Boring but pretty game

But it was confirmed in the sequel’s dlc expansion

[lost quail]

OOH

First confirmed lesbian in Genshin and literally no one uses her

[odd thicket]

Her game’s specialty is that it releases the same week as a decade defining game that eclipsed hers

First one was in the same week as Legend of Zelda
Second with Elden Ring

[odd thicket]

Tbh
Not many have her

[reef axle]

Surprised ya put Collei in aroace given how she gushes about Amber...
Even if ya keep the ace angle, aro seems strange with that lol

[odd thicket]

And sony is a prick with their collabs

[odd thicket]

She even names her burst after the both of them

[reef axle]

I was thinking her long mushy "About Amber" voiceline

Amber is amazing. She's friendly and has tons of enthusiasm, plus she's really brave and always does the right thing... She's the person I admire most of all! She's like a cozy fire that makes everyone around her feel warm. There's no way I'd be where I am today without her... So much time has gone by — I bet she's even more cool and confident than ever these days! Who knows if I'll ever be able to match her.

[odd thicket]

Ye
Its admiration at the least and so much more to reach the most

[lost quail]

Oooooo good point

[odd thicket]

Collei did meet Amber when she was a kid (she is one even now)

[lost quail]

………….

Putting her in the lesbian category

[reef axle]

There's a reason it's one of the longest/biggest ships

[odd thicket]

Its weird that Hoyo confirms that years pass normally in game but the character’s aging isnt touched upon

Bennett’s skin is the first one i see that tries

[lost quail]

Fixed

[odd thicket]

Eulamber cant hold its ground in front of this

[reef axle]

Hoyo did a pretty decent job of keeping things consistent/vague enough to work with both new and old players...

Then with the start of Fontaine they said "fuck the timeline" and started putting everything out of order.

Annoys tf out of me

I had a working timeline of every quest in the game up until that point. But 4.0 broke the order

[lost quail]

I think you can kinda infer

[odd thicket]

Wait which one

[odd thicket]

I am clueless regarding Dain

[reef axle]

Which one?

[odd thicket]

The timeline hoyo chucked out

[lost quail]

For me, I assume Mavuika was 22 when she went into the flames and now she’s 28

Xilonen is two years younger than her to me.

Arle, we know for a fact is 27

[odd thicket]

Even the item descriptions of him in 6.0 and current knowledge

It can go anywhere

World’s most useless gay or angriest straight male

[reef axle]

Oh, up until 4.0, you could roughly follow the quest requirements to establish a order in which events happened.

X quest requires Y quest which requires Z quest, and so on.

4.0 was the first time they started including information from quests that werent prerequisites (specifically, Fontaine's AQ assumes you've done Nahida's second Story Quest and Scaramouche's interlude while requiring neither)

[odd thicket]

The item descriptions of him next patch are a nothing “burger” btw

[reef axle]

Fontaine's AQ actually becomes available before Scara's interlude and Nahida's SQ2

[odd thicket]

Thh

[reef axle]

But mentions you hearing N and meeting Apep

[odd thicket]

Tbh

They were chronological with wanderer one at leaat

Agree on apep

[odd thicket]

Same with natlan

You can see cocouik / och kan and bona

[reef axle]

You can argue release order, but that jumbles up a ton of others.

There was a system before 4.0 that they just gave up on

[odd thicket]

Idk if they were visible without the world quest

[odd thicket]

Skirk quest being after Arlecchino’s sq but before natlan

[reef axle]

Yee, pretty much from 4.0 onward they stopped caring

[odd thicket]

Tbh its fine

[lilac coral]

Oh that one, yeah 😭

[odd thicket]

Players who stick around can figure it out

And even then

The chronology isnt that hard to piece together

[reef axle]

Except now you cant. There's now no one set of rules you can use to determine if content occurs before other content

If you apply one set, you have to change the rules to make other content work for it

[odd thicket]

Most content is still isolated stories of traveller

[odd thicket]

True

[odd thicket]

And new character

[reef axle]

It's literally all vibe based now

"Does it feel like it took place before?"

[odd thicket]

Ye

[reef axle]

You can't definitively say

[odd thicket]

We have to judge with the info

[queen prawn]

Isnt this just for new player who just want to play the story early

[odd thicket]

In the quest

[reef axle]

Nope

Literally locked behind Account level recs

[queen prawn]

Unlock requirements shouldnt be matter tbh

[reef axle]

(Iirc, you get Fontaine like 5 Adventure Rank levels earlier than the interlude/SQ)

[reef axle]

What I'm saying is it used to

You could use that as a rough guide for what took place first

[odd thicket]

Wont 22 be too young for mav

[queen prawn]

Yeah but AR is still 60 and there was no way they make Fontaine+ AR50

[reef axle]

For ref, I stopped updating it after Fontaine stopped caring, but I used to have an entire timeline for every quest in the game using that system:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WF7RDxlZnqdHOOXb8y5-NP3IIpkbHx0naH1AfJR0iWs/edit?usp=drivesdk

[odd thicket]

At the least we have a chronology for archon quests

[lilac coral]

Some story quests*

[odd thicket]

Sorry

Meant to type archon*

[lilac coral]

Oh okay

Because I was going to say, some require other story quests to be completed first, but most are just "feel free to do them in any order" type of deal

[odd thicket]

World quests have some chronology too

[lilac coral]

But very few

Vast majority can also be done in any order

[odd thicket]

Would argue the exploration ones do

[odd thicket]

Yes

Has anyone here completed the natlan archon quests before the och kan one ?

[lilac coral]

I did

I finished the och kan one like a month or two after the aq lol

[odd thicket]

Where bona and cocuik in the archon quest for you?

[lost quail]

lol no

[lilac coral]

Ah, I did that part to the quest before it

I hadn't finished everything until after, but I had, at the very least, started the quest with bona and had tonatiuh unlocked

If you're curious, it should be mentioned on the wiki if she doesn't appear in the trivia section or something if you don't do the quest

There was an extra character or two I didn't recognize though it could've been just me

[odd thicket]

Why ? I feel like 22 is too young to place that burden of cataclysm on her

[odd thicket]

Aight will check

[odd thicket]

https://youtu.be/RigK4OwCCM8?feature=shared

@patent cloud

[patent cloud]

ya i saw it recently

[sly bison]

https://youtu.be/WVDlz6hYSNs

[queen prawn]

Look like the beginning of his quest

[lost quail]

I’m tired of telling people Mavuika isnt 500 years old

She’s not like Citlali

Nor is she immortal

She literally just time jumped

If I hopped in a Time Machine at 40 and came back 500 years later

Am I 500? No.

I’m 40

Chronologically I’m 500

But I’m not 500.

[lost quail]

Even if so. Immortal x mortal between two grown ass individuals isnt anything to scoff at. That’s been a thing for decades

[lost quail]

This gets on my nerves so bad

Like buddy

SHES NOT 500 biologically. This is a whole human being.

[sweet dune]

people actually think that?

[lost quail]

Read the comment, unfortunately so.

The oldest she could be is 30 that’s MAX.

Eh well

It is rage bait

So it’s hard to tell

[lilac coral]

"so I'll ragebait y'all another time I suppose"

They literally said it was ragebait

[lost quail]

I literally ALSO said it was.

[lost quail]

Here.

https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-evil-laugh-laughing-laughter-evil-gif-6767660054883730345

[sweet dune]

Yeah but for ragebait to be believable there need to be idiots who genuinely do act that way

[sweet dune]

Why is why asked if people actually think that?

[lost quail]

Some do

Not counting the rage bait I saw someone say Mavuika x Xilonen was a pro ship because she saw Xilonen grow up

Not rage bait at all they were fucking serious

[lilac coral]

Yeah, but I noticed it was like 15 minutes later

[lilac coral]

Just idiots that act similar, but ye

There's too many who don't read like me and say the most absurd shit because of assumptions lol

[sweet dune]

Lore team
Doesn't read

This server is in hell

[lilac coral]

I also suck at inferring sarcasm and stuff through text lol

So that doesn't help

[sweet dune]

this is why genshin will never get a skip button

[sweet dune]

just irony

because yk

All the lore needs be read

[lilac coral]

No I mean I do read it's just that (Jake and golden can attest to this) I often read the dialogue and notes and things and I start talking about it before I finish reading make assumptions on those things and then quite literally the next line of text will answer what my questions and disprove what my thoughts were LOL

[onyx fossil]

I can

[lilac coral]

I did it like 2 days ago

With the event quest

[onyx fossil]

Famously kc cannot wait literally 3 lines of dialogue

[lilac coral]

I started asking about why Bennett wasn't affected with his memory and stuff if he's natlanese and they answered everything in the next line of dialogue after I had finished talking about it

[lilac coral]

Quite literally I just see something and go

It might be ADHD idk

[odd thicket]

so i was rewatching the sunset trailer

this defo looks like bakunawa

but

they begin this trailer with a toast to Sanhaj and Burkina

meaning the mare jivari happened a day prior

so the battle that killed off the reminder of her Six (or seven) was after the cataclysm?

Also

the muratans were the tribesmen who supported och kan and subsequently exiled
one half mentioned in 1000 blazing suns is of Vennessa's group

the other went to Tenochzitoc and were all killed during the cataclysm

and yes they were anemo

they had no saurian and likely drove if they had one to extinction

[worldly rain]

In the new area before we fight bakunawa there were multiple tombstone some of which tells events after mavuika left for future...
But remaining heroes died during the cataclysm most probably

[odd thicket]

was it after ?

some of the pyro archon names were ancient

it seemed like it was a secret room for the pyro archons to discuss dealing with the bakunawa specifically

[worldly rain]

It says they built that place so should be after bakunawa

[odd thicket]

but bakunawa was there for at least a thousand years

the wanderer''s troupe history says as much

[worldly rain]

That's different event..
Bakunawa creating temporal disruption is different from separating the region (where bakunawa was trapped) from natlan

The area where bakunawa is trapped the small part of mare jivari...to go there you have to access it through that thrones area which was created by the pyro archons to keep the rest of natlan people out..

Remember that real mare jivari and the part of mare jivari where we found bakunawa are seperate

[odd thicket]

yes

and the real mare jivari is stuck inside bakunawa's belly

in other fragments of itself

but wait

[worldly rain]

No it's not

We already discussed it few weeks ago

Bakunawa exist within mare jivari and because it can cause temporal disruption so the entire area of mare jivari jump from one time to other
Like it appearing 1000 years ago when members of wanderer troupe entered it

Bakunawa affects it's surroundings by causing time anomaly basically doesn't mean it ate the whole region and keep it in it's belly or something

[odd thicket]

i believed it was a result of Sanhaj's border spell
by creating a miniature night kingdom while within the bakunawa's belly, it isolated the history / atlas of the whole region and sacrificed it to elemental energy to blow it up and establish the border

i took that as the real mare jivari (like the kahenrian atlas) now in "fragments" within the bakunawa, every portion at a different moment in time.

and each moment carrying a fragment of the monster too

[worldly rain]

Sanhaj creating mini night kingdom was for Lord of the nights to use her powers within the belly also tenoc spirit was also. Summoned there by her they both together then burst bakunawa from within which led to multiple scattered pieces of it

[odd thicket]

wait, lord of the night's actions during the battle were mentioned ?

[odd thicket]

i wanted to ask; were there any instancecs or mentions of pyro archons after mavuika took her 500 year long exile ?

because all the archons mentioned in the stone tablet and booklets are ancient ones

Gloharry, Cochanina, Isaja

[worldly rain]

Are they ancient? Is that confirmed somewhere?

[odd thicket]

implied for cochanina

[worldly rain]

The tablet mentions them building this place to seperate the space between natlan and the area where bakunawa was "killed"

And we know pyro archons after mavuika left had a hand in building this place

[odd thicket]

Isaja on the other hand implies it was more 'recent'

[odd thicket]

there were pyro archons after mavuika ?

[worldly rain]

I mean could be one of them is ancient one recent

[odd thicket]

most recent of the ancient is one possibility

[lost quail]

Which is why for there to be rage bait someone out there has to genuinely believe it, like they said

[worldly rain]

Someone had to lead natlan after her so there should be but I'm not sure on this

[lost quail]

I do too, you have to use tone tags with me sometimes other wise I’ll just think you’re being an asshole

General you

[odd thicket]

one of the requirements was holding Kiongozi; i cant find any mention on the wiki of someone inheriting it after her

[odd thicket]

vivd notions (varesa's weapon) implies the tribes began to quabble with each other and other anicent name holders had to reign them in

[worldly rain]

Hmm

[odd thicket]

hold on

https://youtu.be/PRZAEmYfLp4?feature=shared

[odd thicket]

this also neatly feeds into Chasca's background

she should have been active before Mavuika returned

and she used to settle tribe conflicts

cant imagine tribe conflicts when a pyro archon was active

[odd thicket]

and theres no mention of two simultaneous wielders of an ancient name yet; unless you bring up Sanhaj Komporre

[worldly rain]

Not really as seen by Ifa event quest where tribes used to fight all the time
They even mentioned that mavuika is the only archon since xbal that stopped the fight when she took the throne

[odd thicket]

In Ifa's event quest, there was no mention of the pyro archon no ?

the tribes had to collude on their own

[odd thicket]

oh yes mb
fogor the latter half 😓

[worldly rain]

Bakunawa arrived in the scene some 500 years ago during cataclysm and we know multiple pyro archon so far who handled it's problem
We know time disruption occurred with bakunawa so either
A) could be that he keeps appearing in the past and the pyro archons of their time had to deal with it
Or
B) all those pyro archons who dealt with bakunawa are after mavuika left

Either way it's kinda convoluted right now have to wait for further mare jivari lore I guess

[odd thicket]

we just need the time period when just one of the following archons was active
Cochanina
Shulvitz
Gloharry
Isaja

Hoyo is very stingent on past pyro archon lore

[odd thicket]

i lean towards the former

though ill admit i did not have this much critique as to why i chose it

purely on bias i did

[odd thicket]

could mavuika have given away kiongozi while meditating in the sacred flame ?

[worldly rain]

Have to re read some stuff I guess but for now I'm not sure

I'll see if I can't find some things then..

[odd thicket]

i cant recall any pointer that can give any info on this

[worldly rain]

The clash between the powers of the Abyss, the Lord of the Night, and Tenoch's spirit in Bakunawa's body led to a violent explosion that shattered the monster into innumerable pieces

Here's the one where Lord of the night was mentioned btw

[odd thicket]

which reminds

me

i visited the book on Sanhaj and his brother

it says he was rewarded for keeping his thief brother away from the alcohol LOTN keeps at her brewery at the end of the black river at the Night Kingdom

so much so she defied Ronova and tied Sanhaj to Komporre's body, as 2 in 1

[odd thicket]

so theres no info on the role she played in detail
except that she aided Sanhaj's insane border spell

Iansan's stories dont mention the pyro archon either

The pilgrimage info we have also dont detail anything

[worldly rain]

Citlali: I have an inkling this place may have been put together by the Pyro Archons five hundred years ago. They must have made it to deal with, or at least temporarily contain, Bakunawa.

Citlali: But the exact methods they used are still a mystery... Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you don't tell anyone else about this. For now, at least.

Very convoluted indeed...need to wait for further mare jivari lore can't form opinion right now

[odd thicket]

but then the some of the records were too damaged/ stripped

hm

concealed land of the enigmas as well

[worldly rain]

Yeah and one record also mentioned "can't solve problem within one generation"

[odd thicket]

the only other pyro archon lore i gleaned was it wasnt mavuika who exiled tenoch from the tribes

it was her predecessor of whom also we have no info

[worldly rain]

Tenoc tribe got exiled back when ochkan got killed
We don't even know who was pyro archon then

[odd thicket]

@lost quail it is arlecchino's birthday

[odd thicket]

must have been the third one

[worldly rain]

Then there's that scarlet eye boy supposedly 2nd pyro archon who wiped out his name from records

[odd thicket]

after the second sacrificed themself to the sacred flame

[lilac coral]

Going on a tangent (because I saw the timeline confusion earlier) what do you guys think of this random thought I had a few days ago lol

[odd thicket]

it seemed they didnt live long enough after destroying och kan natlan to pass a judgement on the remainder ofthe tribe

unless their last commandment was the exile before ordering their name to be stripped from any record

[worldly rain]

You know what the earliest bakunawa appeared in the past is 1000 years ago...so the pyro archon 1000 years ago must have started the project to contain him within seperate space
And then successive archons just did the same anytime it came back until sanahj and the team exploded it into pieces 500 years ago

[odd thicket]

so without the time travel stuff ?

so the pyro archon hid the existence of the bakunawa you say ?

[worldly rain]

No with it actually
See bakunawa appeared 500 years ago when gold created it but it didn't stop until sanhaj led battle against it

In between it must have created multiple time disruption which is where previous archons come into scene

[worldly rain]

Could be the case...a lot of stuff is hidden until you arrive and communicate with lord of the night
Even citlali says she will ask mavuika about it

[odd thicket]

so you are saying archons from all across natlan;s history came to the present to fight it ?

and seal the border ?

but cochanina;s last words imply she was battling it or at the least the abyss and asked someone to record her final words into the sacred flame
that request is written on the stone tablet

[worldly rain]

No...
So thrones area acts as space in between natlan and mare jivari something to keep both spaces separated

It most likely started with Shulevitz and ended with Isaja

Bakunawa was seen 1000 years ago at the earliest I'm assuming this is when Shulevitz was the pyro archon and he started building this thrones area and then successive archons kept inheriting the memories and just continued his work until Isaja finally completed it

[odd thicket]

shulvitz was the earliest archon we can glean from there

there were so many more whose records we couldnt read

[worldly rain]

Yes according to tablet

[odd thicket]

this seems most likely imo

do you think that the tenoch - sanhaj spell was what split bakunawa across time and tainted every moment of mare jivari, like venti said ?

[worldly rain]

Also multiple archons who came after Shulevitz they too faught bakunawa in their time it must have also appeared during their time too

Of course all this time hopping stopped after sanjah battle

Bakunawa's revival...
...before the return... must block the Mare Jivari... hold back the Black Tide...
...if I fail and fall... let those who come after... — Gloharry

This confirms it that bakunawa came back during Gloharry time too

[odd thicket]

i am lowkey more excited for mare jivari more than columbina atm ngl

[odd thicket]

it kept reviving like it does for us ?

[worldly rain]

Yes that's it's nature

[lost quail]

MY BABY

WHATS HER BIRTHDAY LETTER SAY??

[odd thicket]

it invites us to her hearth to drink tea

[worldly rain]

my time runs short... put my thoughts in the Sacred Flame... remember, you who follow... — Cochanina

Yep pyro archons kept passing the memories to their successor

[odd thicket]

cochanina is one of the archons whose memories were absorbed/ mimicked by Gosoytoth

Ndenge is another ? iirc

[worldly rain]

Joint project across multiple generation just to contain one bakunawa

[odd thicket]

or many

[lost quail]

HAPPY BURTHDAY

TOOOO YOUUUU

https://tenor.com/view/genshin-arlecchino-genshin-impact-shh-quiet-gif-4011377780004934249

QUEEN

ABSOLUTE QUEEN

[odd thicket]

so what do you think of Enjou's parting line regarding discovering the true mare jivari, and also it cannibalising itself ?

[worldly rain]

What's the line again?

[odd thicket]

hold up

Enjou: But know this, (Traveler). Without the power of Bakunawa, you will never be able to enter the true Mare Jivari. Allow me to leave you a final parting gift.

[worldly rain]

It wasn't expllained how bakunawa power is used to enter real mare jivari
Enjou took something and probably went to real mare jivari bit he didn't tell us how or what
I guess next time we meet we'll know for sure then

[queen prawn]

I don't think he went to the real Mare Jivari yet

[odd thicket]

what i understood was he didnt take anything

he hoped to remember khaenriah while exploring this windless land

devoid of any memory or story

maybe he hoped to learn more about the real mare jivari through the current wastes ?

[worldly rain]

Didn't he take something from the corpse of bakunawa or something?
...I guess I remembered wrong then

[odd thicket]

he didnt

he immediately seeks to leave

and gives us teh lava walker flower

[worldly rain]

Lawawalker roamed the mare jivari long time ago enjou has the flower for some reason and gave it to us

[odd thicket]

the flower blooms in mare jivari

we many patches of the flower along the path to the arena and around it

he could have plucked one right there and given it to us

[worldly rain]

I don't think so lol
He was with us the entire time
If anything he already had the flower also I don't think hoyo would just make such loose connection with lawawalker and enjou

[odd thicket]

Or he had it from when researching the lava walker

Is that what you are saying ?

[worldly rain]

Not to mention he literally said the same dialogue that is written in lawawalker lore so some connection is there

[odd thicket]

It could just be that in his quest for the windless land he researched the lava walker and took his souvenir and with it, his memories

Hes gotten the memories of every artefact/ location he has been to

[worldly rain]

Yeah although won't know for sure how he works for now

The closest lore connection for enjou is lawawalker that's it for now apart from the fact he works for abyss order..

[odd thicket]

And lava walker was a researcher/ scholar ignored by his own colleagues

And Enjou was a khaenrian “clerk” who felt disenfranchised/ bored at the Abyss Order and pursued his own conquest

The other issue with enjou being lava walker is it implies he has been here before

And his artefacts were found in Liyue

Well it could just be leyline fluctuation so Enjou being the lavawalker is still on the menu

[lost quail]

You know, I can kinda see why people think Xilonen and Mavuika’s relationship is more sisterly..

But I don’t

They argue like an old married couple

Xilonen if you said “you two argue like an old married couple, yall should date” would canonically say “no we’re just really close friends” (because china hates gays)

But I guarantee you, they’re gfs please.

[lilac coral]

Tbf, anyone who's close can argue like an old married couple and not be dating or even into one another lol

Like several of my coworkers

[lost quail]

True

But Mavuika and Xilonen to me argue like that alot.

Then they get along really cute too.
I don’t think anyone in Genshin views each other in a family type way

[lilac coral]

Except maybe the actual family lol

Like Barbara and Jean, the twins and freminet, etc

[reef axle]

I'd argue Paimon and the Traveler too. Or Bennett and his dads

[lost quail]

Oh yeah!!! lol

I’m just glad people are liking mavuinen for, they called us crazy

Picture it. They’re actually in a relationship, they just keep it under wraps because it’s a bit taboo. So they call each other friends in public

My vision is vision ONG

[reef axle]

https://tenor.com/view/arlecchino-father-knave-house-of-the-hearth-fatui-gif-14590431504918015546

[lilac coral]

Yeee lol

[lost quail]

I think it’s nice that In canon they make relationship vague

So you can interpret them how you want

Most are stated as friends but tbh that obviously hasn’t stopped people

[lilac coral]

Agreed

And even if they all said they weren't friends and hated each other it wouldn't stop people, let's be real lol

But it's nice that nothing is concrete for most characters and that you can really infer almost any relationship between them through their interactions

It just sucks when people go around spouting like their opinion of it is fact lol

[reef axle]

Except Jeht, who is very aggressively into you

(If you're Lumine)

[lilac coral]

She had me flustered the first time ngl, I wasn't expecting her to be so forward LOL

Like I didn't expect them to write a character as lesbian as her

[odd thicket]

The watatasumi island archaeologist and guide ?

[lilac coral]

The what

[odd thicket]

Hold up

https://youtu.be/aU8KudOkiGY?feature=shared

Here

They were flirting so bad
Like really openly but neither made a move in fear of censorship

[sly bison]

I mean

What else are you gonna do with modern CCP at work?

They even had to tone down Jeht’s interactions with Lumine players lol

And it’s pretty obvious what team she bats for

[lost quail]

Right! It’s almost impressive. Only thing that gets most people to back off shipping is the no no shit

But as a shipper I’m glad there’s a line drawn
I think What makes me feel odd is when people say a ship has a sibling vibe instead of a romantic feel. People see Mavuika and Xilonen as sisters who bicker and fight abd now I can’t unsee it sometimes as someone who ships them heavily. It makes me uncomfortable

Found this on twitter and it made me happy. Shes braiding her short wife’s hair

[lost quail]

I just see them as again, a girl friends who argue a lot. They low-key be flirting

[lost quail]

I feel like they’d be the same height tho

[odd thicket]

sometimes those ideas open up a new dimension of seeing those characters

[odd thicket]

in game it certainly feels that way

[odd thicket]

https://youtu.be/sFlSWkI35Wk?feature=shared

thought they get some details wrong/ exaggerate them this is still a good video

imo

[lost quail]

Imma watch later

My brain just got more Arle and Childe pseudo sibling ideas

[patent cloud]

@crimson storm

[odd thicket]

Childe- surtologi - khaenrian battle crazed orphan
Arlecchino- crimson moon nobility

[lost quail]

They’re so siblings

[lilac coral]

So I finished the yelan event tonight and had a question

Was there ever another time where paimon offered and actually left with someone without us? I feel like she's always begging us to come along if she wants to do something and any time we want to do something alone she's always just a short distance away

But she just straight up goes "you're going to teach me detective stuff?? Alright CYA TRAVELER" without hesitation or a second thought

And no asking us to come along

It feels out of place compared to how clingy she's been over the years

But maybe she has done this before and I just don't remember

[sweet dune]

I remember paimon leaving without us for a few events but i don't think she has done it without our promoting before

[lilac coral]

Yeah, this was entirely her idea after the offer was given by the officer

It felt weird

[lost quail]

Eh. Take it as her evolving. Not as someone who’s suddenly flipping. People do that/gen

I took it as her being confident enough to go without us

nd I’m proud of her for that

[odd thicket]

She has in paralogism

In an event, i cant recall

[odd thicket]

And thinking about, story quests like mavuika’s ?

Which reminds me

She called herself the best tour guide for teyvat

The memoir event going on currently

This got me thinking

What if she really is just a servant of the HP

Functioning as a lowly guide/ pointer through the world/ map of teyvat the HP had in their memory

That would explain her being surprised at maps and places beyond the view of Celestia

Her namesake is the Demon of Knowledge, Science and Secret of all Things

[lost quail]

I wondered Was the traveller really capable of beating her? Was that fight like way too easy actually? Against Arle

Then I remember sister girl was hypersonic as a cracked up Powerpuff girl and had the endurance and stamina of one too

….no

He

They were not gonna win that one

[cinder lion]

Prior to Mavuika sacrificing herself to the Sacred Flame, why did her comrades (i.e. the 6 heroes) have to die? In the "Sunset" animated short, Tupac and Mavuika barely make it back to the Sacred Flame. Was it necessary for Mavuika's 500 year plan or were they just heading towards a battle with the Abyss they knew they wouldn't return from?