・lore-basement

[sly pendant]

What y'all think of this?

• leaks about Columbina ||saying she's Hydro|| and the official web event showing her statues all around Nod-Krai seems like she's the Archon-equivalent character in the region

[modern plover]

https://x.com/codenamedoctor/status/1947662979476164903?s=46

someone is cooking yesterday

Daily Fatui 🃏 (@codenameDOCTOR)

Since Wanderer might confront The Doctor, do you think this scene foreshadows how Dottore undoes Scaramouche's change in Irminsul, and by extension make everyone remember him once again?

X · Jul 22, 2025, 2:20 PM

[queen prawn]

Then it would be meaningless to memory wipe everyone about Scaramoche

And I still stay true to the fact Irminsul burning will happen but failed

Hoyo gotta let Nahida keep her job yk

[lilac coral]

Also what would be the point of making the world remember him lol

[spark portal]

No matter how hard you're trying to erase your past, the world will eventually remember it.

[lilac coral]

And who is meant to remember?

Outside of maybe ei because she's the only one left alive who'd remember it outside of those he's physically told/been ratted out to like dottore

But if dottore makes the world remember him wouldn't that mean he already remembers him anyway?

So it wouldn't be to remind himself

And the rest of the fatui I guess but, again, what difference would that make if they suddenly remember him and he's been gone and they were functioning fine for years prior and it's the end of their plan anyway?

Unless they need all 11 of them for some sacrifice and would have to go through the effort of reviving signora as well

[sweet dune]

wait dottore knows?

he shouldn't remember wandereer does he?

[sweet dune]

given the titles are passed down if they need another they'll just

recruit

harbinger trav?

[lilac coral]

Dottore knew what he did because he's the one who found him and took him to the tsaritsa iirc
And then hung it over his head when doing experiments or making him take trips to the abyss

[sweet dune]

i remember his backstory, im asking if he remembers after irminsul wipe

[lilac coral]

But they haven't and have now been living under the idea that their last harbinger died forever ago and the seat has just stayed vacant

If they wanted to fill it between sumeru and now nod krai, they could have lol

Unless that's where mini durin comes in

[lilac coral]

Idfk

[sweet dune]

they wouldn't do that to my boy

wanderer wouldn't let him

[lilac coral]

I was assuming if he specifically wanted scara to be remembered, then he'd have to remember that scara exists first

[sweet dune]

where did you get that theory that's horrifying?

[sweet dune]

oh. that makes sense

what if scara goes the revenge route, dottore goes who the fuck and is like. hmm memory erased? delete the data bank!

it'll probably come back

what purpose would burning irminsul even cause

given it's corruption corrupted the sumerians

it's burning would....kill them?

[dense moss]

hoyo: we wont put important lore stuff outside of the game
also hoyo with the welkin moon website: so that was a lie

[odd thicket]

ues

yes

[odd thicket]

her heels are made of hydro

[odd thicket]

i think it has to happen

but irminsul being destroyed also ruins the siblings plans

hmm

yeah you are right

it has to fail

[odd thicket]

he can

dottore's clones's purpose is to resist irminsul basically

or at least implied

[sweet dune]

but the clones were yeeted before the wipe

[odd thicket]

for the same reason capitano wanted to destroy the night kingdom

[odd thicket]

i think he would figure out somehow

via allegories in the past

[odd thicket]

they probably are planning to burn down irminsul and make their own leylines that is

sacrificing the complete history of teyvat

[queen prawn]

This will 100% be in the game anyway(also the information about the moon is already here ,just hidden)

Same for the recent webevent

Those information will be available when NodKrai release

[sly pendant]

Most unique heels so far

[sweet dune]

but for now no info of him havin it

well we haven't seen or heard of him since either..

[odd thicket]

Hoyo has been dead silent for his story after sumeru

They must be having something major for him

[sweet dune]

i just hope he dies

[odd thicket]

I hope he is playable

Even if he dies

[sly bison]

9/10 chance it’ll be through a new Segment

[odd thicket]

Pretty much

Also

Do yall think anemo can be considered a moon element ?

[reef axle]

Not really sure what a "moon element" is, but sure?

[odd thicket]

Elements closest to the moon

Every element has someone related to moon too

Hm

[reef axle]

What does that even mean...

[odd thicket]

Moon reference

Pyro- Arlecchino
Dendro- Baizhu*, Nahida
Cryo- Ganyu
Hydro- Mona
Anemo- Venti, Wanderer
Electro- Raiden
Geo- Zhongli

Maybe all liyue characters having to deal with Jade as well

[reef axle]

Sounds like it's less about the elements than specific characters tbh

[lilac coral]

And if you burn the thing that holds memory and history, wouldn't burning and destroying it just destroy what memory is left everywhere? Lol

Not bring memories back

[odd thicket]

Yeah

My og hypothesis was wrong

[reef axle]

Dottore: "But wouldnt it be so fun to find out?"

[odd thicket]

Basically what capitano proposed

For natlan to mav

[odd thicket]

I assumed only dendro cryo hydro and electro aere

Were*

[lilac coral]

True
It's only a hypothesis at best..

[odd thicket]

Dottore can burn irminsul next year too

Something tells me he is Tsaritsa’s most valuable harbinger somehow

His interest is in human evolution beyond the confines placed by the Heavenly Principles

Also

Mav about deserts

[reef axle]

https://youtu.be/a6FB9NU_Vr8

Her theme kinda gives me Snail's House vibes

[lilac coral]

OH MY GOD IT IS SO CUTE

THE MUSIC TO HER RELATIONSHIP WITH AINO TO THE GENERAL ANIMATION STYLE THEY USED????

IM SQUEALING

ITS ADORABLE

[odd thicket]

They spoilt her origins

Lmao

[lilac coral]

AINO my HEART

[sly bison]

It looks like Mizuki’s

[odd thicket]

But not like it wasnt obvious

[odd thicket]

Yes

[lilac coral]

It does kinda

But it's so much cuter

[sly bison]

Sey

[odd thicket]

New pfp dropped

[lost quail]

That’s random Mav

[stoic spade]

aww that was such a cute story mv

must protect both of them

[queen prawn]

Aino looks unique compared to other chibi characters, I might build her

[odd thicket]

She is a must build

As a free nod krai 4*

[queen prawn]

Isn't she 4*?

Guess I have to wait for next week

[odd thicket]

Sorry my bad

Yeah she is the free 4*

[odd thicket]

watching the trailer agai

again

ineffa went to Nasha on her own

[queen prawn]

||moon fragment power hard carry fr||

[odd thicket]

also
why do people say she is a dragon lord

shes not

shes just another one of those secret source automatons

never a dragon

[queen prawn]

I'm pretty sure it is based off someone theory

[odd thicket]

Whose?

[queen prawn]

I don't remember but the video thumbnail has "dragon lord " in it

There was another but YouTube short

I think it is that vtuber girl

[stoic spade]

I didn't recognize the core that was used maybe it's a theory based on the core, since dragons also had tech

[queen prawn]

One problem is dragon has their own body, meanwhile Ineffa core is from one of their machine

[spark portal]

Today I learned that female icel exists in CN communities, they're responsible for Zhongli's scrapped story with Guizhong

[stoic spade]

uh

[fresh willow]

they’re canon atp

[lilac coral]

You thought women couldn't be incels?

[sly bison]

https://tenor.com/view/futaba-sakura-futaba-yes-im-a-femcel-femcel-steph-gif-10701992681494734293

[odd thicket]

https://youtu.be/S2CxLbRRKUA?feature=shared

first time i am seeing leaked content in their videos

since when did they begin this

[queen prawn]

Long ago,he usually disguise leak as theory in his analysis

The reason why I started to hate his video

[odd thicket]

Yeah

So much misinformation
He got his 5.5 stuff wrong

[sly bison]

CatWithABlueHat

😠

[odd thicket]

i should begin making notes for lore stuff

too far and wide and difficult to keep in mind

[lilac coral]

That's why the only catwithbluehat videos I watch are the ones that mention new stuff for each patch (like a tl;dr to the livestream) and ones like the video they uploaded recently that showed genshin's map as it evolved and added new regions

Otherwise, all I've heard is how they hide assumptions and headcanon as facts

Amongst actual facts

[odd thicket]

I found the subreddits to be better for it

As you always find other lore enjoyers under the comments

There

Reddit crowd is better for lore tracming

[odd thicket]

Polluted fontaine water in 3.1 theory

[lilac coral]

Yeah but... It's reddit 😭

[reef axle]

I can dig up the rant again if needed

Every now and then I watch a CatWithBlueHat video to see if they've gotten better, but if anything, they've gotten worse/more shameless

[odd thicket]

True

[sly bison]

Hmu

[reef axle]

#・lore-basement message

There ya go

[sly bison]

Thanks

[lilac coral]

Lol

[sly bison]

Gacha marketing tactics aside

Does any current info in game even remotely suggest that Alice isn’t Klee’s mother in the traditional sense?

[reef axle]

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[reef axle]

Klee's Character Story 5 explicitly confirms it

To Klee, the Knights of Favonius are family, and she can't imagine life without them. Her biggest role model, however, is still her birth mother — the avid adventurer, Alice.

[sly bison]

Ok then yeah

If it’s a 3rd person statement

That says enough

Thanks

[odd thicket]

Albedo’s voice line

Could suggest otherwise but Klee character story shoots it down like jake shows

[spark portal]

You kinda sound like that group of people who are disappointed that Alice looks like Klee

[sly bison]

Which one

[sly bison]

Perish the thought

[spark portal]

I mean, you ask for evidence about Alice being not Klee's mother

[odd thicket]

Regarding alice

[odd thicket]

No ?

[spark portal]

Sorry, evidence SUGGESTING about it

[odd thicket]

Alice is a mage who is obscenely powerful

[sly bison]

And your statement about me being somehow ‘disappointed’ that Alice and Klee look alike is reaching

You can dismiss it, I assure you.

[odd thicket]

And is surrounded by people creating their own children artificially

[spark portal]

"Kinda sounds like".

[odd thicket]

People are skeptical of her husband’s existence however

[sly bison]

Again, you can perish the thought

Last thing I want is to be remotely associated with the folks that actually are for less than meaningful reasons

[odd thicket]

Only Klee thus far mentions him

[sly bison]

My thoughts are:
if it’s not Varka, then her dad is prolly not around anymore or she was fed a tale about him

And Varka being Klee’s dad is stretching it

Only cuz he’s the only remotely adventurer-esque dude to have a well-known status comparable to Alice atm before Traveler even arrived

[odd thicket]

Imagine the wailing if varka was the dad

(Most likely is)

Actually

No

Alice regularly took trips outside of teyvat’s borders

[stoic spade]

That's why Surtalogi's the dad /slapped

[odd thicket]

And her husband was said to have ventured with her

[sly bison]

Klee has an 👽 daddy

[odd thicket]

To the firmament

[odd thicket]

My hc was he and asmoday are dating

[spark portal]

There was a crack theory on Reddit about Aether being Klee's dad from the future (no, it's not mc ship type shit) because of Alice's eyes being the same as Aether and Lumine

[odd thicket]

Sinner of Space and Shade of space beyond teyvat

But then asmoday showed up in 5.7 and

[odd thicket]

Huh

[odd thicket]

Yeah

[spark portal]

Would Asmoday want to be with one of the sinner?

[sly bison]

Lumine is the dad

[spark portal]

Crack theory.

[odd thicket]

Anything can happen

[sly bison]

She saw his masculine gigachad aura

And wanted some of that Sin

[stoic spade]

she bit that apple so hard

[odd thicket]

Asmodeus in the ars goetia was the demon who promoted gambling and gambling dens

Unlike the other shade’s demon counterparts

Someone made a superb theory

Regarding the demon names

[sly bison]

Super

Do you feel that Surtalogi > the Shades

[stoic spade]

Id

idk*

[odd thicket]

That all shades’s demon counterparts excluding Asmodeus (asmoday) were loyal or only serve under Lucifer (heavenly principles)

Asmodeus is the only one to have their own ambitions

[stoic spade]

He's insane, and bored of teyvat but also still trapped by its rules so maybe not?

[odd thicket]

Paimon will be called in to replace asmoday

[sly bison]

Guy busts out of the firmament like whatever

And even conjures his own way to break the curse of immortality too

[odd thicket]

Yesn’t

[sly bison]

Sus..

[odd thicket]

His fate is still locked

[sly bison]

And yet his fate is still somehow bound

[stoic spade]

I think on power level yes he's stronger than the shades, but on plot armor no

[odd thicket]

Concept diff ensures he loses

[stoic spade]

also there's the whole thing "you need to be a descender to touch the heaven gnagna" plot point that he admitted he can never be himself that is definitely going to be a problem if he wanted to kill them all or smt

[spark portal]

Asmoday introduces us to gacha

[odd thicket]

Yes
And even if he could kill them, they can just concept diff him

And return

Like little one destroyed teyvat but it reformed to the exact state it was at that moment afterwards

[reef axle]

Or they're saving him as someone to be introduced later.

Keep in mind Nod Krai is using up almost all the remaining "named but not shown" characters. They need to build that repository back up to keep hype for future versions going

[sly bison]

Also valid

Who knows what we’ll come across there

maybe the remaining volumes of Alice’s Adventure Guide?

[reef axle]

forgotten like the Pale Pygmy books

[queen prawn]

Some people keep saying Bina has no shadow in the video eventhough it is wrong

[odd thicket]

We see her from where the reflection should be

Dont we

[queen prawn]

It was this scene I am talking about

[sly pendant]

Her faux heels 😭 being made of water.. does it evaporate when she walks over the hot sands of Sumeru's deserts? Does that mean her heels dissolve when she takes a swim in Fontaine's lakes? Can her heels freeze? If she kicks her enemies with her heels, do they get wet? So many questions...

[stoic spade]

she has heels??

[queen prawn]

The heels gonna transform into something

[queen prawn]

Yeah,I was surprised

[queen prawn]

I hope every step,she will created an effect

[sly pendant]

Yeah like when she steps it makes the water effects like the one when you walk over the water surface in the Eternal Oasis

or if she doesn't step maybe she'll float(?) idk i can totally see her having floaty animations like Kokomi and Skirk

[spark portal]

This shit is funny not gonna lie

[queen prawn]

Alice husband isn't real and it is just Alice lied to Klee

[spark portal]

We will never know if the CN players that some players are scared about will come to light or not

[odd thicket]

https://youtu.be/lazdoydkbNU?feature=shared

[lost quail]

What …

[lilac coral]

A single sentence from the trailer spawned that video btw

Oh I can't ping him, maybe he left the server

[white nimbus]

Didn't her teaser vid disprove that already?

[lilac coral]

Did it?

From just aino building her and such?

I mean, it's more realistic that she's just that, a regular robot built by aino

[sly bison]

She’s the ship of Theseus

In genshin

Calling it

[white nimbus]

In the teaser, they showed that her core came from a regular secret source automaton

[odd thicket]

No

It is plausible

[lilac coral]

Ohh you meant her core

[odd thicket]

Yeah

We know ||Xiuhcoatl too her to the moon||

And stored ||a piece of moon fragment\ Lunar Jade within her||

[lilac coral]

Which natlan historical figure was that again

[odd thicket]

THE PYRO SOVEREIGN

[lilac coral]

OH

RIVHT

[odd thicket]

[lilac coral]

WHOOPS

Former* pyro sovereign, right

[odd thicket]

Yeah

Little one was briefly the pyro sovereign

[lilac coral]

They talk so much about och kan and xbalanque in the quests that I literally remember nobody else even if we've spoken to them

Ye

[odd thicket]

Xiuhcoatl is as important as them

It was his horn that illuminated Teyvat at one point, as master of light

[lilac coral]

Yeah, but I remember seeing that name like... Maybe twice

While we see xbalanque's like every other sentence

And och kan is like 80% of the little buddy's quests

[odd thicket]

Yeah

Xbalanque and Och Kan were lovers so they frequently tread on each other’s stories

(Idc its a hc it just neatly fits )

[odd thicket]

Och Kan was supposed to be the next pyro sovereign after his uncle died

[white nimbus]

I'm so behind on Natlan lore

[lilac coral]

I'm not behind on natlan lore, I just couldn't remember it immediately after reading it lol

https://fxtwitter.com/GenshinImpact/status/1948956450019025156

Genshin Impact (@GenshinImpact)

Where the wind dies, and legends fall...
︀︀#GenshinImpact #GenshinImpact5ꓸ8
︀︀
︀︀It is said that the vast tract of land to the west of Tenochtzitoc was once the Mare Jivari, a place of sorrow born from the Abyssal invasion. As time washed away the past, the mysteriously vanished Mare Jivari has seemingly reemerged, but what is revealed may only be the tip of the iceberg...
︀︀
︀︀See Full Details >>> hoyo.link/zU4dhBtGq

**💬 75 🔁 711 ❤️ 5.2K 👁️ 92.0K **

FxTwitter · Jul 26, 2025, 4:00 AM

It feels like a dream that it's finally coming

Also, and I will gladly be a jackass for this, but fuck everyone who said I was wrong and that it was going to be a domain like with the artifact domains or boss domains

The dream came true BABY

Okay now that I'm reading the hoyolab post for mare jivari, I will say what the absolute fuck

"What truth lies buried? Trapped souls? Bodies that have turned to dust?..."
"The curse that has been dormant for 500 years? is about to wake. Could the transcendent power of the abyss threaten even the flow of time?"

I find it really funny that the comments seem to be saying that the mare jivari is the Philippines

Like ah yes, dry windless hell

[spark portal]

Indonesia needs some representation in Tuyul for normal enemies and Genderuwo for boss enemy lol

[lilac coral]

Is that why?

I thought it was like Brazil meme

But instead of Brazil they're saying the Philippines

[white nimbus]

It's because of Bakunawa. It's from Philippine mythology

[sly bison]

Love to see Genshin beating the “Mare Jivari wasteland got retconned” allegations

[lilac coral]

Ohhh okay

[white nimbus]

And it's exciting that what we're getting in 5.8 is only a small part of Mare Jivari

[odd thicket]

Well

[lilac coral]

Especially exciting

I'm just wondering if it's going to be like

[sly bison]

Hey we get both of best worlds

And that’s fine

[lilac coral]

The juxtaposition of mare jivari being at the same time as a summer getaway vacationland

Like how it was when mondstadt had a super cute celebration with poems and wine and such at the same time as sumeru going to hell and crumbling to pieces while dottore and scara were essentially tearing everything apart from history

[sly bison]

We all need a break sometimes

[lilac coral]

Isn't that what dead patches are for?

[sly bison]

It’s so real that Traveler actually canonically misses Windblume Festivals too

[white nimbus]

Like in 2.1 where we had Act 3 of Inazuma AQ then we go to Liyue for Moonchase Festival

[odd thicket]

Literally the best of both worlds

[lilac coral]

It's just so funny to play a game where, in a single patch, there's the most fun people have had in months at the same time as some region on the opposite side of the map being absolutely fucked over by something in the most demented way possible

And that this has just become a yearly thing at this point

Now bi-yearly!

[sly bison]

Ludi Harpstum when tho

[lilac coral]

Never

[sly bison]

[white nimbus]

Looking forward to the patch where they double down on the depression

[lilac coral]

We will have it, get there, and first day we have to go find the missing upside down barbatos statue again and get stabbed in the shins and watch venti get murdered

[modern plover]

im late. but the leyline event is similar to the one back then with diluc

[lilac coral]

Oooh it is?

I'll take it

[white nimbus]

What leyline event?

[reef axle]

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Hidden_Strife

[lilac coral]

Tradition, a yearly tradition is the word I was looking for lol

[white nimbus]

I mean I thought there's a new leyline event

[modern plover]

yeah. the current red leyline event in liyue is similar to the one with diluc back then

the dialogue even mention the event with diluc

[white nimbus]

This one?
https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Fearsome_Ferocious_Firepower?so=search

[modern plover]

that event paimon got sus and she tries to dodge question regarding leyline

[modern plover]

no this one

the diluc event on red leyline

[reef axle]

they're asking what the current event you're comparing it to is

[modern plover]

and now we have this

[white nimbus]

Oh the Stygian Onslaught quest?

[modern plover]

yeah

[lilac coral]

Oh that

I haven't done it yet

Too lazy

[modern plover]

so real

[reef axle]

same

[modern plover]

but im glad we have the sequel for the diluc one

[reef axle]

I heard the stories about it and went "nope"

[modern plover]

its been 3 years

the diluc one is infamous with diluc backstory, kinda. and paimon got sus

[white nimbus]

You can just do the difficulties that give primos and peace out. The other difficulties aren't really worth it imo

[lilac coral]

Tbf, from what I understand it's the two highest difficulties that suck, the hard difficulty isn't nearly as bad

[modern plover]

she asks abt leylines. very in depth question regardless of how it works on the diluc one. then traveller caught on, ask her back on why she is suddenly interested in how leylines work and she decided to not delve on the topic no more through jokes

[white nimbus]

To be fair, Paimon usually does that

[modern plover]

ye she does

[white nimbus]

About various topics

[modern plover]

idk what changes during natlan but she only do this regarding the topic of teyvat

and its rules

she would become very pushy at the traveller in order to force him to do the job that resolve the matter abt leylines

and its always abt leylines stuff

but again, idk what changes during natlan

[lilac coral]

Phlogiston instead of leylines

[white nimbus]

It's very inconsistent which topics she's knowledgeable about. And she calls herself the best guide in Teyvat

[lilac coral]

Lol

[modern plover]

true. this is jusst my observation

on instances like this, traveller will always say no to paimon first before getting peer pressured by her

thats how u spot these kind of convo with paimon. it will start with paimon wanting the traveller to do something, traveller says no twice to three times, and he will have to do it anyway cuz paimon just keep telling him to do it. and the task is always abt leylines stuff

[odd thicket]

you can just befriend a whale or leviathan to finish D4

D5 and D6 are hard for most f2ps

[sly bison]

[modern plover]

yeah there goes paimon in the event again

always hungry for leyline info

it happens way too many times to call it a coincidence ykyk

almost all quest abt leylines and memories, paimon will always have this spike of interest in it. i keep a record on which one is it

she maybe interested in many things. but leylines is a recurring topic for her when no other characters during the quest try to delve on it

[odd thicket]

but shes already from PO why would she care about leylines more hmm

maybe to keep an eye out on leylines ?

or traveller's recorded memories ?

[modern plover]

PO?

wdym by PO

im also not sure abt why shes very interested in leylines and memories. almost becoming obsessive abt it

but one thing for sure, she would try to milk info on leylines if it is regarding the disturbance of it that leaks memories

and she will always try to push the traveller to save the person that is formed from the leylines. even tho they are dead. she got very paranoid at the fact that these ppl are dead

[lilac coral]

Are they trying to say something akin to paimon being asmoday in disguise?

[modern plover]

maybe?

who knows

[lilac coral]

And that being their mission?

Idk

[modern plover]

but power = memory in teyvat

[lilac coral]

I'm tired so I'm barely following

[modern plover]

so even if she belongs to a powerful faction like the shades, she maybe unable to remember crucial info regarding the rules of teyvat

[lilac coral]

A story of regret and penance, perchance? 😔

[modern plover]

yeah

there is a joke on paimon being the god of protection from herself in the traveller voiceline

she got paranoid when ppl got hurt yknow

sorry for the ramble

if u see me here, it is either paimon or albedo and his family tree

more on paimon tho

oh ye, im going to hoyofest tmr. should buy more of her merch

im so tempted to create a new genshin acc to do quest again rn

i stop following the lore closely since sumeru

[odd thicket]

Shes related to the PO

Directly

[odd thicket]

It only happened once no ? And she was not there

[odd thicket]

But she is knowledgeable of all teyvat

Maybe she is there to learn of the hidden corners where the gods gaze doesnt fall or process ?

[modern plover]

What is PO. What does it stand for 😭😭

[modern plover]

It happens many times. As I stated I keep a record of these things happening again and again

[odd thicket]

Primordial One

[odd thicket]

Can you list a few ? I had forgotten most of these

The only occurrence i recall is Guthred

[modern plover]

For example, previously mentioned diluc event, chasm quest, Mona summer island quest, this one again

There r more I just need to score my records again it’s been so long since I got involved in genshin lore

I can pin point the dialogues for u if u want

[odd thicket]

Take your time

[modern plover]

Not rlly. Certain information is not explained by her. For example; regarding the irminsuls is Nahida information that is explained to us

She only explains the current event that is happening in Teyvat. And it is also not all updated. Even so, it is not abt in depth on the general rules of celestia, leylines, the abyss, etc

And I said before, power = memory in Teyvat as seen with the aranaras. Erosion also cause the loss of memory. She may just forget it all due to her size. That would prompt her having to ask for leylines info

Even if she did not forget, clearly, there’s a motive in her intention that make her keep asking for it again, to the point the traveller have to notice and point it out straight to her face.

I’m not trying to cook a theory here. Just merely stating facts. U can say that I read in too much but if the traveller response to her action as in questioning her intention almost whenever she brings it up, then clearly, the writer wants u to know that something is fishy.

[odd thicket]

oh i dont dispute that

the ancient names are all powered by memories too

that is why mavuika and every pyro archon was obscenely powerful

[modern plover]

Yeah

[odd thicket]

so it was in the old 1.x and 2.x events she keeps asking this ?

coz i dont recall any such occurance in the 4.x or 5.x events

[modern plover]

Yeah. I stop following quest starting from Sumeru

Thats why I have to rlly read it again

[odd thicket]

in 5.5 we had anto the saurian quacasarauus baby ghost

paimon was not aloof and could follow what the traveller's plans were right after

[modern plover]

I haven’t play natlan quest yet

[odd thicket]

natlan is fully of this

if you dont mind spoilers theres a certain person being duplicacted by the leylines

[modern plover]

U make me interested to play the entire Sumeru and Fontaine again

[odd thicket]

and duplication was not an ability unique to any one faction

[modern plover]

Ooh

Interesting

[odd thicket]

sumeru plot line is about leylines
fontaine is about fate and leylines laws if you think a little ahead
natlan is entirely about leylines and a new concept different from fate

[modern plover]

Thats true

[odd thicket]

Remuria/ Fontaine's enkanomiya is foreshadowing major teyvat concepts previously a mystery to us

[modern plover]

But paimon is never shown interested in leylines in these quest.

[odd thicket]

arlecchino is also important

[modern plover]

Specifically AQ

[odd thicket]

she does in scara aq

[modern plover]

Ya I forgot

U see 😭😭😭

I recalled yapping abt that here

[odd thicket]

these region AQ also explore traveller as a Descender more

paimon took a back seat or was left behind

[modern plover]

Her interest is more in leylines and memories associated with it

[odd thicket]

https://youtube.com/@dragonmje?feature=shared

this channel is pretty good for lore

[modern plover]

:0

Noice

[odd thicket]

catching up to lore as well

[modern plover]

Maybe have to catch up soon

[odd thicket]

have you played caribert ?

[modern plover]

All thx to Durin I’m back

[odd thicket]

The dain a

[modern plover]

Yeah but she just disappeared in that quest no?

[odd thicket]

aq\

[odd thicket]

its a he

[modern plover]

No I mean paimon is not featured in that quest

[odd thicket]

his plotline is continued and finished in bedtime story

oh her

yeah

even traveller cannot retain memory of the reunion

[modern plover]

But it’s more on fate and abyss. Rather than celestial leylines?

[odd thicket]

About that

[modern plover]

I rlly need to reread stuff again

[odd thicket]

Its not really fate

[modern plover]

Something something abt changing fate?

[odd thicket]

Stories can be created to alter history and reach fate differently

[modern plover]

Right

[odd thicket]

Thats how mini durin was made

[modern plover]

Oh right that

I discussed abt mini Durin last time here

[odd thicket]

Its three people in one body

Or multiple people in one body

[modern plover]

R u referring to Durin now?

[odd thicket]

Yes

[modern plover]

Huh it’s 3?

[odd thicket]

Its dragon durin

[modern plover]

Mini Durin, evil Durin

Who else?

[odd thicket]

fAlbedo

And mini durin

[modern plover]

Right completely forgot the guy

[odd thicket]

And poor mondsdadters who died and disappeared and recreated in the paralogism quest

[modern plover]

It’s rlly interesting to see it tho

[odd thicket]

Joel’s father is also allegedly a durin recreation

[modern plover]

Durin is almost like the human shaped chimera

[odd thicket]

Rhinedottir- Naberius gave it away

Emergency food is lore

Maybe paimon will eat traveller when the time is nigh

Or traveller eat paimon

[modern plover]

It’s quite chilling but I kín my baby boy Durin

[odd thicket]

Ye

[modern plover]

I wish Paimon would be her own separate character

I hope that won’t happen. Sounds sad. And no more Aoi Koga

[odd thicket]

Horns of a goat
Wings of a dragon
Tail of a lion
Yadda yadda

[modern plover]

[odd thicket]

She is her own person

No way shes a spawn of any of the shades

[modern plover]

Whst I mean is if she eat someone in the future

[odd thicket]

Oh

Maybe she eats asmoday

[modern plover]

What abt moon sister

[modern plover]

Hopefully

[odd thicket]

Moon sisters are all draconic

Dragon made

[modern plover]

Huh? New info?

[odd thicket]

Old info

We knew it since 5.2

[modern plover]

When

5.2 is new I’m old

[odd thicket]

5.3 was an explicit confirmation

[odd thicket]

Hold on

Its easier to show this

[modern plover]

Ain’t columbina the moon goddess too?

[odd thicket]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gensin-impact/images/4/4d/Chichen_Uctokah_Dragon.png/revision/latest?cb=20250426213349

This is Nibelung

With the three moon sisters

[odd thicket]

Moon maiden*

leaks say a lot of things regarding her

[modern plover]

I have no idea who this dragon is cuz I haven’t play any natlan quest

[odd thicket]

Most might be true

[modern plover]

World quest

[odd thicket]

Oh

[modern plover]

Elaborate

[odd thicket]

Nibelung has been known since Enkanomiya
Name dropped with Neuvillette

[odd thicket]

Theory is she is the welkin moon who ascends

Based on the web events

[modern plover]

What is welkin moon here tho

[odd thicket]

Directly mentioned many times in sumeru

[odd thicket]

The fourth moon of teyvat

Who responds to and grants autonomy to humanity

[modern plover]

There is a 4th moon????

[odd thicket]

We dont have it yet

[modern plover]

But moon sister are born dragonic?

[odd thicket]

Oh yeah
Nibelung is the centrepiece of teyvat history

[odd thicket]

Nibelung made them

[modern plover]

Or is it something related to nibelung

Oh ic

[odd thicket]

I can say more

[sly bison]

He was first mentioned in Sumeru actually

[odd thicket]

But its leaked content that comes out in 5.8

[sly bison]

SQ2 Nahida to be exact

[modern plover]

1 time mention is ez to slip the mind

[odd thicket]

And heavily related to ineffa’s story

[odd thicket]

Only by title

No ?

[modern plover]

Oh yeah right

By the dendro dragon right?

[odd thicket]

Yes

Apep

[modern plover]

So if moon sister is artificial

[odd thicket]

There are three dragons you wanna read about

[modern plover]

Can they be recreated

[odd thicket]

Xiuhcoatl, Nibelung and Kukulkan

[odd thicket]

Yes

||That is the plot of next weeks update||

[modern plover]

Maybe paimon will grow wings

[odd thicket]

||And the next region as well||

[modern plover]

[sly bison]

By Ruby text

[odd thicket]

Abyss seems to be able to infiltrate and erase from Leylines

Dottore can as well to some capacity with arlecchino’s blood

Dragons burnt leylines and ate angels

[odd thicket]

Ohh

I forgor

I knew somewhere this was put on top of his title

Assumed it was in the last sumeru expansion

[modern plover]

There’s Angel?

[odd thicket]

We finally got the explicit confirmation that seelies were angels once

[modern plover]

Noice noice

Angels paimon?

[odd thicket]

Paimon is a shade candidate

Not an angel

Angels were discarded and forgotten long ago by celestia

[modern plover]

There r theories regarding paimon either is a seelie or 1 of the moon sister back in the day

5.x just bring lots of new info

[odd thicket]

Only Lord of the Night was so far found to be in some communication with then

[odd thicket]

Shes neither

[modern plover]

Ooh what is it abt?

[odd thicket]

Shes confirmed to be from celestia by a melusine in fontaine

[odd thicket]

Its the demon names

[modern plover]

Yeah Ig pretty much

Wait all the shades name are still demons name?

[odd thicket]

Asmodeus is the only demon in the ars goetia not wholly subservient to Lucifer (PO)

[odd thicket]

Yes

[modern plover]

Alright good to know

[odd thicket]

Paimon, Ronovre, Naberius, Asotaroth and Asmodeus are all deputies of Lucifer

Lucifer is obviously the PO

[modern plover]

Hmmm, who is the PO again.

[odd thicket]

Primordial One
Heavenly Principles
Phanes

First Descender

Usurper King

[modern plover]

Ehh… the one who win the war against the dragons?

[odd thicket]

Yes

[modern plover]

Yeah this prompt some memory

[odd thicket]

The second who came has two conflicting answers

Voyager and Nibelung are two candidates

[modern plover]

So they win the war first before moon sisters are created?

[modern plover]

Ic

[odd thicket]

It was before the war

Allegedly

[modern plover]

If so then Nibelung cant be the 2nd descender? Or am I missing something here

[odd thicket]

Hes not

Hes the third

Voyager is the second

Unless the creation of Voyager and First Seelie is the third somehow

[modern plover]

Eh then how can he create the moons when he’s not even in Teyvat

[odd thicket]

He created moons before he left teyvat

That much is known

[modern plover]

Then he came back and become a descender?

[odd thicket]

He came back with abyssal powers yes

That is how he was a descender

[modern plover]

Crazy

Loopholes ahh

[odd thicket]

Not a loophole

[modern plover]

Skirk is from another world no? How come shes not counted?

Traveller is the 4th descender

[odd thicket]

Yeah shes from another planet

[odd thicket]

She’s not powerful enough to challenge teyvat’s rules

Or destroy it

[modern plover]

Huh

[odd thicket]

Or create it on her own

[modern plover]

So those who r counted as descenders are those who can change the fate of teyvat

Noted

[odd thicket]

Rene gives a four fold condition to it

[modern plover]

Rene who?

[odd thicket]

Descenders must be able to
Destroy the world
Create the world
Sustain the world
Change the world

[odd thicket]

Rene de Petrichor

Of the narzizzenkreuz ordo

[modern plover]

Okay is this 5.x again

[odd thicket]

No

Its 4.x

[modern plover]

What does this person do again

[odd thicket]

Its singlehandedly the most important world quest of all time imo

[modern plover]

The storyline of ordo has many characters

[odd thicket]

He tries to become a descender but fails

[modern plover]

When was that mentioned.

During the quest line

[odd thicket]

He is the chief conscious of “Master” / Narzizzenkreuz / the hydro tulpa

[odd thicket]

4.2

[modern plover]

Oh him

Oh I remembered now

The twisted dude

[odd thicket]

Yes

[modern plover]

Not as bad as dottore. Still bad

[odd thicket]

Hes the connecting channel for so much of teyvat’s disconnected localised history

[modern plover]

Hmm ic

Aight thx for the brief update

[odd thicket]

Genshin lore in 3.x has become increasingly explicit

[modern plover]

Now I have to go clear the game

[modern plover]

Ye it got dark

[odd thicket]

Repeated Allegories and clear metaphors and explicit confirmations meant we understand far far more than anticipated

[odd thicket]

Tbh it was always dark

Mondsdadt history is dark

Tsurimi island too

[modern plover]

Yeah it’s just darker

[odd thicket]

Speaking of tsurimi

[modern plover]

The Rene dude is rlly twisted with his methods

And we haven’t mention Dottore

[odd thicket]

My current guess is Rui’s dismemberment is akin to the third descender being split into the seven gnoses

[odd thicket]

Dottore did nothing wrong

People slander his noble intentions

[modern plover]

Is this new info on his actions again

[modern plover]

What is it that prompted him to do shit to scara

[odd thicket]

No i am his propagandist

[modern plover]

[odd thicket]

Scara deserved it

And besifes

[modern plover]

[odd thicket]

Scaramouche was crucial to his projects so columbina wont be harmed and get a deeper understanding of automatons

(The columbina part is my fiction)

[modern plover]

[odd thicket]

Anyway

Dottore’s goal is human evolution

Which is explicitly banned by the PO

And Shade of Life

[modern plover]

That sounds almost rhe same as Rhine and albedo

[odd thicket]

Dottore is the one who enabled arlecchino to kill without killing people

With her processed balefire blood

[modern plover]

Huh rlly?

Wait tell me more

[odd thicket]

Arlecchino runs house of the heart

So many people / kids want to leave or abandon the fatui

[modern plover]

I though arlecchino blood is literally that way when shes born

[odd thicket]

Naturally, you dont leave a top secret spy organisation as it is

Arlecchino is meant to kill them

[modern plover]

Oh yeah the potion that erase memories

And being reborn

[odd thicket]

But she has a soft spot for her wards by erasing memories

And erasing memories is the equivalent of killing someone

[odd thicket]

It is

[modern plover]

Hmm thats true

[odd thicket]

Arlecchino blood is interesting

She retains and hallucinates people she killed by her hand appear to her

And she too glitches

Capitano is different

[modern plover]

Wait

[odd thicket]

Only in that regard

[modern plover]

Hang on with capitano

I have to finish the AQ first

[odd thicket]

Okay

[modern plover]

[odd thicket]

Its a spoiler

But its a really old one by now

[modern plover]

Ye ik

[modern plover]

I’m older

Ancient

1.x player

[odd thicket]

Theres lore everywhere important to the main plot for peering eyes

[modern plover]

Natlan general plot is kinda ass to me so far. It’s like a shounen story that makes absolutely no sense

But the lore reveals it has is certainly interesting

[odd thicket]

Mavuika character can be bland

Her story quest doesnt do as much as expected

Citlali story quest you probably should be interested in

[modern plover]

Hmm ic

I will see it

I only finished rhe 1st 3 tribes

And got pissed at xilonen one NPC

[sly bison]

I remember back when people thought Capitano was using Nightsoul

But with current context

He may have very well been using some form of Serpent Subtlety like Skirk did

Without a proper vision

[odd thicket]

5.0 dreams

[odd thicket]

That is precisely what he is doing

That or using his heart to fuel elemental energy

[spark portal]

It's funny how ZZZ's Seed discourse and Genshin's Alice's husband discourse, HSR has no discourse going on rn

[lilac coral]

Remember the theory that he was one of the yakshas that went missing/didn't actually die

[lilac coral]

Hsr's discourse rn are the upcoming banners

I suppose people REALLY do not like the new characters that are releasing

Or at least, that's what I keep seeing when I scroll through YouTube and stuff

[odd thicket]

Hsr fell off

[sly bison]

“There’s a discourse over Alice having a husband?”

[lilac coral]

Perhaps in cn in the same vein as the cn community boycotting phainon or whatever lol

[sly bison]

Inb4 it’s just one of those “a louder small minority is making a bigger deal out of it than it actually is”

[lilac coral]

Ah okay

Then what are cyrena(?)

I haven't been paying attention to her kit but I kept seeing videos and posts about her being horrible and people not liking her kit lol

[sly bison]

Dunno too much about HAR gameplay antics nowadays aside from them adding a Summoner job class recently

But I loosely recall seeing that ye

[lilac coral]

Jingyuan was the original remembrance character 😔

[sly bison]

Sus

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Enigmatic_Page_(IV)

...I've been assigned to Alain's lab... That guy only likes things he can figure out completely. If this were a novel, he might be the type of villain who becomes a crazed serial killer just to figure out how the human body works. But he doesn't seem even remotely phased [sic] about such statements. On the contrary, he spoke to us about the similarities and differences between humans and machines, and between artificial intelligence and personality. Uh-oh, this is bad, at this rate he might really turn into a villain like that...

[odd thicket]

red herring

when dottore is that kind of villain

[sly bison]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/902599132609413121/1397783263355076618/image0.jpg?ex=6886465b&is=6884f4db&hm=369f0a6d7f25f008ada27d71537eabc6154bfc6459b3a092c4f6794f8b140759&

Double sus

[odd thicket]

he based off his meks on Amun's matrices

[sly bison]

All I’ll say is

[odd thicket]

Dottore is even worse

[sly bison]

In the next few months

[odd thicket]

Alain is defo the robot

[sly bison]

Hoyo has the chance to do two of the funniest things ever

[odd thicket]

sandrone the girl is a mek he keeps on his hand

[sly bison]

With Sandrone

[odd thicket]

i am 99% sure now

[sly bison]

She’s the literal marionette

[odd thicket]

yep

he is literally twisting her gears into action right behind her

"her" may not even be fully conscious

[sly bison]

But remember like a marionette

‘She’ might not be speaking of her own accord

Like ventriloquist of sorts

[odd thicket]

yes

we see her little key gear in hoyo's art

honestly

i think it befits the dark turn of alain's character

very possessive, dehumanising control freak after losing his sister

[sly bison]

She has none of Mary-Anne’s actually personality too

At least what’s portrayed of her so far

[odd thicket]

Mary Ann is an amalgum of Lyris and Ann no ?

[odd thicket]

it befits alain
so invested in meks he forgot the warmth of humanity

[sly bison]

She’s the fused leftovers yes

But there’s no overlap between that fusion we see

And what Sandrone shows

[odd thicket]

its her own person

sandrone is definitely what alain remembers or thinks ann should have been to not get puddled that day

also

in a way i think sandrone is a reflection of ineffa and xiuhcoatl and other meks

where autonomy and free will is not given when it could be

[sly bison]

Mfw I just now realized that

Genshin has been giving consecutive MSQ every patch since 5.6 and is still continuing into 5.8
even after the main Natlan AQ was done

@odd thicket

[odd thicket]

The story has to pace up somewhere

[odd thicket]

Paralogism had to be done for Durin and Naberius build up before shade trailer

5.7 had to happen for the same

And also building dain to be the big bad

5.8 is for Ineffa, moons and Nod Krai hype build up quest (that we would know tomorrow)

[sly bison]

Technically

The greatest record we’ve had for patches with MSQ content is 4 in a row

[odd thicket]

I hope this trend continues

[sly bison]

Form 5.0-5.3

[odd thicket]

Ye

[odd thicket]

It needed a break

[sly bison]

5.2 had a relatively shorter interlude chapter with Iansan but it still counts

If we assume nod Krai will do sth similar

This will prolly continue until 6.3 when they call for a lengthy break for a patch or two

Which would make it 7 patches in a row

[odd thicket]

One patch

Nod krai doesnt have a 6.8

6.4- break

6.5,6.6,6.7 straight back into story

[sly bison]

Amorphus era of Genshin

[sly bison]

How did you figure that

[odd thicket]

Well

[sly bison]

It’s been a minute since I saw their behind the scenes

[odd thicket]

Leaks said version 6 is the resolving writing knots period of the game

The dev stream also said its to resolve so many plot points

Both are cohesive

4 versions for nod krai

2 more for liyue and dain

One last for nod krai and intro to sneznaya

[sly bison]

Pretty sure they mentioned Fontaine’s Mount Eos in the dev video

[odd thicket]

Then it could be a rhinedottir expansion

Fountaine could give more naberius lore that way

[lilac coral]

YOU MEAN WE MIGHT FINALLY GET THE MOUNTAIN WE CANT ACCESS??

[sly bison]

Seems like it ye

I’ll need to rewatch to make sure it’s not a fever dream

[lilac coral]

Can you link it, idk what video you guys are talking about

[sly bison]

https://youtu.be/NbDXwuUWxhY?si=zTSKO81v_xVtAqTw

This was the same vid where they confirmed the Welkin Moon arc would start in 5.8

Which they kept to

Varka will also be one of the first people Paimon and Traveler meet and hang with in Nod Krai

[lilac coral]

Thank you

I'll be honest, I forgot most of what was in this video

Aside from them saying they were going to tackle a lot of loose ends in the lore and make the story more lore-centric going forward in nod krai

[sly bison]

https://x.com/teyvattabloid/status/1948983105425113362?s=46

Teyvat Tabloid ⚡ LORE & MEMES ⚡ (@teyvattabloid)

Lore chart

these are some connections i noticed between the moon sisters, hydro element, seelies/angels, paimon, columbina, the loading screen area, mondstadt, statues of the seven, celestial nails, and more

mini theories from these connections:

one moon sister was more

X · Jul 26, 2025, 5:45 AM

@odd thicket

[lost quail]

Jesus

[lilac coral]

So many lines 😭

I feel like I'm looking at a crime wall

[sly bison]

The culprit:

https://tenor.com/view/paimon-waves-her-hand-paimon-genshin-impact-genshin-impact-gif-20084027

[lilac coral]

Of course, she's always the source of the crime

[sly bison]

Cursed topic but like

Since it’s been joked about years ago

[spark portal]

!!golden

[fading tinsel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/995148256545874081/1272356792957009963/image.png?ex=66baae1a&is=66b95c9a&hm=22caa928643edb5b96e83322a53979fa6fbabddb7da4263e02689d76476014b4&

[sly bison]

What does a Paimon taste like?

https://tenor.com/view/mihoyo-genshin-genshin-impact-paimon-cooking-gif-22541381

[spark portal]

!!ubatcha

[fading tinsel]

UBA THATS NOT A GLIDER THATS A FISH

[lilac coral]

[sly bison]

What do you think about a Super Paimon being playable

https://upload-os-bbs.hoyolab.com/upload/2025/02/14/395601664/8e55b3f394de2344a6c65abd1997c073_5029965845857124939.webp

[lilac coral]

In the afterword to the slime cannon event going on rn, the NPCs suggest a reward for the melusine with alcohol and stuff and the traveller says paimon can't have alcohol

I know it's been a running thing with the traveller, but has it been a thing with paimon and I have just never noticed until now?

Like, they say it almost like it's a known fact she can't have alcohol and I'm confused lol

Or do you think it's something with censorship of how a child-like character can't be depicted or written to be drinking alcohol so they do a cute little swap to fonta? But then why even add it if that's the case?

[reef axle]

https://fxtwitter.com/GenshinImpact/status/1949318875377447155

Genshin Impact (@GenshinImpact)

Happy Birthday, Klee!
︀︀#GenshinImpact #Klee
︀︀
︀︀"*snore* Have some Dodoco cake... everyone. You too... Mom..."
︀︀"Falling asleep already? Aww, looks like Klee had too much fun today when I surprised her with a visit.
︀︀Dream well. There are dancing Dodocos, apple-flavored slimes, and shiny new Jumpy Dumpties waiting for you in your dreams...
︀︀Happy birthday, my little shining sun."
︀︀
︀︀Want to see more videos and GIFs of Klee? Hurry over to Genshin Impact's TikTok account to watch them together!
︀︀www.tiktok.com/@genshinimpact_en

**💬 123 🔁 2.9K ❤️ 15.3K 👁️ 167.1K **

FxTwitter · Jul 27, 2025, 4:00 AM

Man, imagine if they had posted this without already revealing her in the trailer lol

[lilac coral]

It's still so cute 😭

Also yeah, people would have been going rabid over a hand/glove reveal

[odd thicket]

Fae/ Frostmoon Scions have horns like seelie too

[odd thicket]

whats dori doing in saiyuu anecdote

[hazy storm]

can anyone suggest any genshin lore youtubers like ashikai, roozevelt, catwithbluehat, minsleif etc

[modern plover]

I see paimon

I have been summoned

[reef axle]

I can suggest removing catwithbluehat

[hazy storm]

sure but can i ask why?

[sly bison]

#・lore-basement message

[reef axle]

Long rant: ^Astral linked my longer rant lol

Short rant/TL;DR: They don't distinguish between confirmed lore, leaks, their own speculation, or just random guesses, presenting them all as equally "confirmed" truth. They also don't source their lore well, regularly plagarize from /r/GenshinLore, and overall are just not a good resource for anyone looking to dive deeper into the lore.

[hazy storm]

what do we think about aru hiseki, the unlikely genshin gamer and the gamer chronicles?

[hazy storm]

thanks for explaining. i will unsub then

[reef axle]

honestly, never heard of any of them, but I don't really watch genshin lore folks
Only reason I know about Cat is people coming in here repeating some wack claim from a video of theirs

[sly bison]

Ashikai seems to recc Aru

But I never watched their stuff

[odd thicket]

everyone is good except cat

[odd thicket]

not as good

i recommend my name for now

[worldly rain]

Reading ineffa weapon lore it looks like the current timeline is something like this
||- nibelung left teyvat sometimes after his meeting with voyager and created 3 moons to govern the cycles in his stead

• pyro sovereign went to ask the three moon goddess about the nibelung's whereabouts but he was met with silence
• then the PO came to teyvat he faught the 7 sovereigns and took control of the moons and reshape teyvat
• after this the events of finale of deep memories artifacts happened with voyager and first angel rebellion against the PO
• apparently the divine envoys gave the knowledge to create life to the humans of golden city and they created the fae using that knowledge
• this led to PO nuking the city with divine nail and cursing divine envoys to never fall in love with other and if they do they turn to husk and become seelie
• nibelung returns at this point in time now corrupted with abyss and learns of the 3 moons supposed betrayal and the fate of teyvat and begins war of vengeance||

[odd thicket]

I think the last two were swapped

The voyager was at war with PO when Nibelung returned

Boyager converted seelies to their side

And almost overthrew PO when the moons pinged Nibelung

[worldly rain]

The way it's worded in lore both for finale of deep artifact as well as ineffa weapon
it's like nibelung arrives after the rebellion has happened and the aftermath of envoys getting cursed as well as golden city getting nailed
Nowhere in finale of deep nibelung arrival is mentioned
And nowhere in ineffa weapon lore golden city or angels is mentioned

Definitely his arrival could be during the end of rebellion though

[odd thicket]

Nibelung arrival is mentioned back in 1.x

Not in finale

In the tale of the three moon sisters

It was 30 days after the seelie fell in love was Nibelung summoned back

The “catastrophe” was “summoned” that claimed the lives of the moon sisters

[worldly rain]

Yeah and I'm saying the moon sister fell during the war of vengeance which happened after the golden city had been destroyed and angels cursed

[odd thicket]

Tbf the rebellion only ended with Nibelung’s return

[odd thicket]

But werent the nails dropped and angels cursed after the rebellion ?

In the aftermath when PO was too grievously damaged and no longer appeared ?

As I recall from kukulkan the nails only dropped after the heavenly dropped was annihilated by the sky reavers

[worldly rain]

Yes the nail was dropped on golden city where humans lived it has nothing to do with angels
Angles were then punished via curse later

Angels apparently gave the knowledge of creation to the humans who dwelles within the golden city
These humans used that knowledge to create fae

This was the nature of rebellion aka sharing of devine knowledge

[odd thicket]

Wasnt it given by voyager to humanity ? And aided by angels ?

In the creation of fae ?

[worldly rain]

No voyager only gave autonomy to first angle
It was then the angles who shared the knowledge with humans

[odd thicket]

Hmmm

What i understand from nails was they were the first and only option for PO to directly act onto Teyvat after the war

[worldly rain]

That's why PO cursed the angles in such a way that they can no longer look into the eyes of other and fall in love again because that's how first angle fell in love with voyager

[worldly rain]

Nope read finale of deep again

[odd thicket]

The nails and the cursed followed each other

[odd thicket]

Finale doesnt state when the nail dropped though

[worldly rain]

It's the knowledge of creation that was given to humans of golden city

[odd thicket]

Only the fate of golden city

[worldly rain]

Wait a sec...

[odd thicket]

No info on the chronology of nibelung’s arrival

Which is crucial

Voyager aided PO to annihilate Nibelung

But was caught by him afterwards while trying to escape with their lover and erased from existence almost

[worldly rain]

And the furnaces of the deep galleries thundered day and night. Turning to forbidden methods, artisans forged countless fae spirits upon the bones of giant beasts.
Having spun fallen frostmoon light into flawless flesh and blood, they clad it to forms once frail and weak.
Such authority to create was once the lord of the firmament's divine prerogative, yet it was handed to mortals by the rebellious envoy

Yet in the end, such wild delusions and ambitions were brought down from the heavens, and with them fell deep blue crystal spikes.
The fae shrieked as they turned into icy silver mist, and in the space of a single night, the splendor of the golden city was ruined by frost-laden winds.
The traitorous envoy was stripped of both name and form, and from that moment onward, a curse fell upon her kin:
If they dared gaze into another's eyes, and to one alone offer the love that was meant for all,
Then not only would their divine beauty crumble into the wind, but their minds would fall to dust,
Until from the fallen one's remains a Seelie would rise, forever drifting in search of fading memories to consume.

"Deep blue crystal spikes"

That's the nail

Dropped to golden city

[odd thicket]

Hmm

It does say in the “end”

[worldly rain]

Authority to create fae spirit given to artisans by rebellious envoys and then the fact that this authority to create was only by Lord of firmament aka PO

[odd thicket]

It could be after war of vengeance

This mystery would be cleared up once we learn where the angels were during the third war

[worldly rain]

Well the artifact lore doesn't mention anywhere such war

Ineffa weapon clearly says nibelung left teyvat and createe moons before any war
So basically much before PO arrived

But we know when PO arrived he engage in war with 7 sovereign acc to before sun and moon

And then finale of deep events should happen because well PO won and made teyvat a whole again
And then the events of rebellion and it's aftermath

Now the again going to ineffa weapon we get one more event which is return of nibelung now corrupted and starting war where moons fell then

[odd thicket]

Yeah, it ends at the nail drop
It wouldnt mention war of vengeance maybe coz it never reached hyperborea

Also
I hate how this doesnt clear up on the identity of the second who came

Like luxluani was pondering

[worldly rain]

Timeline is still messy towards the end though
Like one thing is clear nibelung left before PO arrived and when he return both the moons and teyvat had been in control of PO

[odd thicket]

Ye

[worldly rain]

Now the event of golden city as far as finale is concerned happens before his arrival that's also for sure

[odd thicket]

The only thing that is messing up is Skirk’s info dump on gnoses

[worldly rain]

But the thing here is that finale never mentioned nibelung arrival it's just says nails were dropped because of rebellion

[odd thicket]

Voyager or their creation was meant to have aided PO against Nibelung

[worldly rain]

Also the nails were dropped btw at this point on golden city not because of abyss but because angles shared divine knowledge with humans

Remember this

[odd thicket]

Yes

[worldly rain]

This is why I think nibelung arrival is later event

[odd thicket]

Nails where dropped when the divine rule was threathened

[odd thicket]

PO could have punished differently though

Directly smoked Hyperborea

Kukulkan mentions the divine nails in plural dropped on the plannet only after Nibelung’s death

Nails always seemed like a desperate measure from PO

[worldly rain]

I mean I'm basing it on current lore and so far the events of rebellion looks liked it happened before nibelung returned
Maybe future lore will present timeline better though

[odd thicket]

As a form of abstraction to not reveal themselves while interfering directly

[odd thicket]

The rebellion definitely began before he arrived

I need to identify the source of that 30 day timeline

Because imo PO would never have dropped nails while healthy

[worldly rain]

Well there are two events here
One being Angle rebellion where they shared devine knowledge of creation which led to golden city getting nailed
Another being Nibelung arriving with abyss and starting war which led to spread of abyss where PO again drops nails to curb abyssal spread

[odd thicket]

Yes

Wait

PO also nailed Natlan for its draconic soil

[worldly rain]

And so far both the events don't mentioned each other for some reason...
Like ineffa weapon doesn't mention angle rebellion
And finale of deep doesn't mention war of vengeance

[odd thicket]

Only after war of vengeance

He could have nailed it before but didnt

[worldly rain]

Well before he had already defeated sovereign he didn't need any reason to do so

[odd thicket]

He could interfered directly like that for Hyperborea

But didnt

[worldly rain]

Also pyro sovereign was literally feigning death and only rose up when nibelung returned

[odd thicket]

He pulled a fast one on PO by encasing himself in phlogiston

But its not like PO could have killed him

[worldly rain]

The thing is you don't just drop nail because resources exist you do when it's used to threaten your control

[odd thicket]

But PO had other measures to respond directly to threats vs him

[worldly rain]

For all you know PO believe he's done with the dragons and just didn't bother not like before nibelung returned the dragons did anything

[odd thicket]

Its kinda hilarious in hindsight ngl

Lava dragon you couldnt kill no matter how much you tried fakes death by encasing itself in lava

[worldly rain]

Descender identity is still convoluted though now that I think about it