modding-general

[compact swift]

Mods work again

[compact swift]

“Work” might be a strong word. Some of my mods dont seem to work, only ones I’ve noticed so far are Skyland and ELFX

[real sphinx]

Are these mods missing?

[compact swift]

Nah, they show up and allow me into previous saves. I’ll keep investigating, maybe Im just going crazy lol

[compact swift]

Any idea what causes this?

[weak lake]

We play a game where we decapitate people and burn people alive but we can't say swear words?

Srsly?

[restive sable]

As Discord is free to anyone over the age of 13 we have to abide by their Terms of Service

[zinc delta]

Cursing and Profanity is against the #rules of the server.

[weak lake]

That makes absolutely no sense considering the nature of the game we play lol

But alright then

[trail geyser]

its not bethesdas rules its discords rules

[zinc delta]

Let's bring it back to modding, please.

[trail geyser]

i actually have a question does bethesda have anything to do with nvidias lil morrowind thing they showed off

[obtuse elbow]

Is there any way skyblivion is ever going to make it to Xbox

[trail geyser]

no

[obtuse elbow]

Why?

[trail geyser]

because itd be too big and uses script extender

[obtuse elbow]

Well back to the topic I would be all for increasing mod space

It’s much needed

[zinc delta]

As it is not an official Bethesda game, was have no information on that.

[obtuse elbow]

Hi guys I just realized that the optimized apocalypse magic mod is not showing up on the load order.

Even after the update

On my load order it’s the only one that’s not there

[weak lake]

Having some issues making Imperious Races of Skyrim work, idk if it's an issue with my load order or not

It says to place it below any other mods that modify racial abilities

But I don't have any other mods that do that

[grizzled torrent]

More than likely is. Imperious is a race edit for all races so if you've got a mod that adds new makeup or skin tinting (like freckles) then you'll have an issue.

[weak lake]

I have a bunch of beauty mods yeah

[grizzled torrent]

Choose one mod that overhauls the makeup and find a patch for Imperious that goes with the makeup/freckle mod.

[weak lake]

Alright

[grizzled torrent]

If you want an all in one that also contains Imperious, there's Divine People of Skyrim. I don't use Imperious since it is so hard to patch (15 races + each entry has to have a unique value) but the Etherium version has its own racial modifications that are taken directly from lore.

[weak lake]

And where should I put imperious on the load order? Below the other beauty mods?

[grizzled torrent]

Yes. But Imperious is vanilla.

[weak lake]

Kk

[grizzled torrent]

You won't be able to have your makeups and such.

[weak lake]

I did it before the update though

Like it worked perfectly fine before the whole disapearing mods thing

[grizzled torrent]

Your load order has to be exactly like it was before the update. So hopefully you used the logical load order and wrote everything down before downloading.

[weak lake]

Alright

[weak lake]

Got it to work, ty

[cobalt sluice]

I'm hoping the hotfix worked.

[weak lake]

Oh it worked

Dw lol

[obtuse elbow]

Hi guys I just realized that the optimized apocalypse magic mod is not showing up on the load order. Even after the update

[cobalt sluice]

Yep it worked.

[vernal schooner]

Anyone know any good PS4 Skyrim special edition mods

[real sphinx]

I'm happy to dig into this tomorrow. Is this the mod in question? https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4289594

[real sphinx]

Is this on Xbox?

If so, those are probably editor markers. There is a rare situation where these become visible on Xbox (but not PC) when a Skyrim LE mod is ported to SE. Often the easiest solution is to re-create them.

[covert pelican]

That's an interesting tidbit. Didn't know the marker thing was due to assets ported across from LE.

[real sphinx]

It may be possible to hit this with modified SE assets, but so far I've only ever encountered it with LE ports.

I've encountered this maybe half a dozen times, and in some cases there were multiple similar objects that all behaved themselves, and then one or two would get these markers. What sets them apart was never clear.

[covert pelican]

Fortunately there's a flag in the .nif file you can set to tell it to hide the marker. CK will still see it, but it will also stop it from showing up on console.

[gentle owl]

can you post the flag so the person who ported it knows aswell

[covert pelican]

I can do you one better: https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5805-xb1se-fixing-visible-editor-markers-in-meshes/

[gentle owl]

that should help them,but without checking do you use the hidden flag

[covert pelican]

Yes, the meshes in USSEP that used to have this marker issue are using the hidden flag now.

[tight cave]

Someone made a mod to unfix the mannequins 🤣

[rough agate]

Hey, does anyone know what would cause Septims in your container inventory to...seperate? What I mean is that whenever I were to go and grab a coin purse and later on dispense that gold inside a chest, in my misc tab of my inventory there are two Septims. One Septims that have most of my initial count, and the Septims that I've gotten from that coin purse. I can still use and spend it like any other Septim as it still counts as gold, but it clutters my inventory and container spaces like crazy!

[tight cave]

Do you use any mods that might touch how items are stacked? It could be some sort of mod conflict. I'd test to see if a clean none modded save does it then take a look at what mods you have if you do have any and activate the ones that might touch inventory or something.

I'm not an expert but the last timr I encountered a bug like that was in oldrim and it was some sort of mod that did some kind of item/item stack manager for inventory. Something to do with item id for it.

[obtuse elbow]

Yea

[molten acorn]

One pile may be stolen.

[tight cave]

This makes a lot more sense

[real sphinx]

Strange, I was able to use this without issue. It may be worth deleting and re-adding.

[obtuse elbow]

Thanks that worked 👍🏻👌

[rough agate]

The coin purse wasn't stolen, it was completely free grabs yet for some reason in my container inventory it's in its own pile? At first I thought it was the C.O.I.N mod given that's the only mod I found that touches gold through XEdit, no luck. I then thought it was JS Purses and Septims since it's a texture overhaul and maybe somehow the textures must've done something with the id's? Still nothing.

[tight cave]

That is odd I'm not a mod maker so I wouldn't be able to figure out what is going on with skyrim to do that. Is there a way to drop a coin from one of the seperated coin piles to check it by clicking on it in the console? That would confirm if it's for some reason made the ids of the stacks different.

Or are you an xbox or playstation user?

This issue is more confusing then the time I found the unique shadow casting torch on solstheim and thought it was a bug cause it wasn't stacking 💀

[rough agate]

Sorry everyone about the complications of info, for everyone's sake, I'm playing on PC. I can't drop the coin from my inventory because I can't access my gold through my inventory normally. The only way I see this is when I go to a chest and open it, go to my inventory, and head over to the misc tab. Let me see about getting a screenshot for everyone to get a better visual on what's going on

Here's what I'm dealing with visual wise

I get these seperate piles after I go and grab any coin purse that has Septims in it.

[wicked socket]

Interesting. I had this happen on a new test start here recently. When I went into Battleborn house to retrieve the Legion letter I also grabbed the money bag on the desk. It registered as a separate amount and item in my inventory just like this.

[rough agate]

Did you find a way to fix it? Any mods you know of that may be causing the problem?

[wicked socket]

Sadly no. I was testing some new mods so had created a new profile through Vortex and a fresh game Tuesday last week. Then the update hit Thursday and I haven't launched skyrim due to waiting out the update and broken menu issues. With the hotfix out now I will check and see as soon as the updated mods are good to go.

I heard that Bethesda was slowly slipping in CC updates before they officially launched the patch last Thursday, just before Gamescom, so maybe this is what did it orginally?

Because it was an issue ive never had and only happened last week leading up to the new skyrim version.

[rough agate]

Maybe, I've never encountered this issue before but I think I recall encountering this issue before there was even an update to the game. What did they even fix exactly?

[wicked socket]

There were a few things. I think steam should have the patch notes updated. But they released AE to the Japanese market last week which required language fixes as well as the chance to hotfix some CC issues that they had known about. They also did various other things like mannequin fix and added in the see CC content in the menu. This lead to the mods deleting and the hotfix that was put out this morning.

I know in the past there was a similar issue but that was when the gold was flagged as stolen. This seems to be different however.

[rough agate]

It's certainly a mod issue, after running a test game with only USSEP and Alternate Start, after finding a coin purse and grabbing it only to then look inside a container to check my inventory's misc tab, it merged with the original gold pile as it should be

[wicked socket]

Thats a good thing then, can at least start looking at variables. If I can still see what I had installed on that test run I will let you know and see if any of that helps you out.

[rough agate]

Thank you, I'll try my best as well and see if I can find the problem. Best of luck mate

[storm bay]

@real sphinx based on the statement in the permissions, is this safe to port https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/55092?tab=description ?

[real sphinx]

That author has been inactive for over two months, so it's probably fine. Although it may be worth PMing them anyway just to be safe.

[real sphinx]

Modding isn't supported for the 360, so this isn't a discussion to continue here.

[somber walrus]

I have some mods on a USB that I have used before

[trail geyser]

thats… not how it works

[weak lake]

I'm having an issue with Ordinator Perks of Skyrim

So basically the custom fit perk in the light armour category doesn't let me upgrade it despite me meeting the requirements and then some

Any idea what's wrong with it?

[lunar lake]

Another mod is interfering with the perk. There is no "Custom Fit" perk in Ordinator.

[weak lake]

Oh they removed it?

[lunar lake]

I don't recall what it used to be. But this is what the current version of Ordinator offers: "30 - Light Armor Fit - Armor rating of Light Armor increased by 25% if wearing all Light Armor."

[weak lake]

Here are the mods that I have that change perks around or have anything to do with them:

50 pct More Perk Points
Sacrosanct Vampires Of Skyrim
Moonlight Tales Special Edition

That's all that I'm aware of st least

At*

And obviously Ordinator

[tight cave]

Anyone know if there is a swift steed stables compatibility patch for immersive horses?

I can't for the life of me figure put how to patch all the horses in it so they work with the adopt function 👀

[brisk jolt]

Can anyone recommend a weapon texture overhaul mod for Skyrim? (Preferably the best ones)

[weak lake]

So does anyone know which mod could be interfering with Ordinator?

I also have Odin magic overhaul if that has anything to do with it

[rich kiln]

Assuming you're on PC, you can load the mods into xEdit and check the conflicts.

[weak lake]

I'm on xbox

[viral swallow]

i dont suppose there is something like profiles (aka a quick way to revert on a different instance to a vanilla load order) on xbox right?

[rich kiln]

From what I've heard, no.

Which is unfortunate.

[viral swallow]

😓

yeah that is very unfortunate

i wonder if now that modding is big bethesda will take steps to have better in built support on all platforms 🤔

particularly with how non trivial modding and troubleshooting is

[rich kiln]

That would be nice.

[viral swallow]

though i am going to assume better in built tools are still not top priority

which is probably also a good thing

prio should always be the game

[rich kiln]

I have mixed feelings on that due to personal experience with how frustrating engine barriers are to various mod making efforts. Certain lacks of access either make implementing some things incredibly difficult if not downright impossible.

[viral swallow]

well yes

but i think we can assume that for third parties like us

modding wont be harder than with skyrim

particularly once we get the ck again

i am just saying it probably shouldnt be top priority to have automatic load order sorting depending on mod nature profile support and conflict solution made by bethesda

i mean itd be nice ofc 😅 but probably not thr most important thing as long as we get the ck

[shadow lily]

What'd be nice would be them deliberately and openly maintaining and exposing an equivalent of the address library so that modders don't have to recreate it on major updates.

[weak lake]

Where would I place patches for a mod on my load order?

[shadow lily]

Generally after all affected mods.

[weak lake]

After meaning above or below?

[shadow lily]

So if you have a mod list that has two mods and a patch.

Foo
Bar

FooBar patch.

[weak lake]

Ah ok I get it

Ty

[shadow lily]

You might want to have the patch lower in the order if anything else touches the same records, and would otherwise revert a change in the patch.

[weak lake]

Alr cause I'm downloading a patch for ordinators and Odin's so would I place it after anything else that messes with perks?

[shadow lily]

Probably.

[weak lake]

Alright ty

[weak lake]

Can I just send my load order and can someone tell me what might be messing with Ordinators? Cause I just can't find out what's clashing with it

[viral swallow]

cant really do that.. well theoretically they could but no. Just like them providing something like the script extender would be a massive nope

ok not just like skse.. skse providing is a whole different level of no.. but ye either way cant really do either

[shadow lily]

Or using a system where things don't move around so much. 😐

[viral swallow]

i mean.. cant really do that much..? if you change something in the .exe

well stuff gets changed

or with AE recompiling on a different compiler version

impossible for that not to shuft stuff around

the only thing that wouldnt "shift" things would be if they handled bog standard cc stuff differently

but address library has that part solved

i highly doubt other games handle this sort lf stuff any better

they just dont usually have something like the script extender

[gentle owl]

the limit for console was set by beth to stop lo getting to large at the start we had the same limit as pc but people were complaining the game was broken so beth set a limit

mod release

this mod adds a rose armor,cloack,sword and new nettlebane,it adds new enemy to the blessings of nature quest they use the rose armor (not swords or cloack) they are similar in strength to a bandit chief (the armors are worth around 500 so it makes the reward for the quest better),you can craft the armor etc after you complete the quest (you will need red mountain flowers),the sword was in the ebony crafting section and the outfits were in misc (some mods move the catagorys so check others if there not there) https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4291481 https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4291483

[grizzled torrent]

That looks nice, alaan. The red in the final pic looks very bright though. It might be my monitor but I cannot tell what the item on her back is supposed to be.

[gentle owl]

a rose cloack

[grizzled torrent]

OH. I see it now. 🙂 Red bleeds very badly on my monitor makes everything super bloomed-looking.

[molten acorn]

what is the mesh used for the cloak?

[gentle owl]

?,do you want to see it in nifscope

[molten acorn]

yes, just curious

it looked like wings from a distance, where it doesn't seem to wrap over the shoulders.

[molten acorn]

Did you attach individual roses to the weapons and armor? That looks like it was an enormous amount of work

oooooh, ok. I see what it is now. Neat looking. A cloak of petals.

[gentle owl]

yes there are individual roses heres a picture of the sword

[molten acorn]

man that's detail

[gentle owl]

i was originally going to use a different sword i had built a few years ago (but didnt release) i couldnt find where i put the meshes for it the other sword would of had more thorns around the hilt

i also have a few more nature type outfits that im building (there built i just have to get them ingame)

[molten acorn]

On Fredas nights, Danica dresses up as the Gildergreen and runs around Whiterun showering people with Kyne petals?

[gentle owl]

she was originally going to get the dress but i thought it looked good for forest enemys

[vernal fjord]

I think the reason is that on console to manage the loadorder every mod needs to take up a slot that we can activate/deactivate, move or delete. If the mod wouldn't take up a slot we could not see it like the Creations or the game files.

[grizzled torrent]

You can see user-created ESLs. The limit is simply 150 plugins for console. PC has limit of how many BA2 archives will load, my assumption is that that limit is even less on console. However it could be for any reason.

FONV starts getting weird after you hit a limit as well but I don’t know if it’s because I failed to find the right mods that work together or if I hit some kind of BSA limit for what I wanted to play with.

[rich kiln]

FNV has a wonky file limit where it starts to crap out.

I think it was something like 140 plugins? Can't remember offhand.

Ah, from the relevant bugfix mod:

@grizzled torrent it's this one: https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/68714

[grizzled torrent]

So I’m not going absolutely bonkers. \0/

[gritty birch]

Hello

[wise ginkgo]

hi

[thorny lark]

Has anyone experienced the strange glitch after the beginning of the Battle of Whiterun where the three “Planters” appear as NPCs — in their underwear, no less — near the city entrance gate, only later to cause a glitch that prevents you from entering the city without being spammed with a message that says something like, “You can’t plant that here.”

I have induced this glitch twice now, just to see if it was a random thing.

[shadow lily]

Never.
But the "planters" there are the behind the scenes mechanism for the Hearthfire style planters/fertile soil.
It's possible there's something weird going on with a Whiterun overhaul mod, since there shouldn't be any planters around in the vanilla version.

Possibly the "Battle for" instance of Whiterun is somehow messed up?

[thorny lark]

Well, the glitch prevents me from entering after the battle. I know the “Planters” are the game mechanics for the fertile soil, etc. I’ve never seen this happen and I’m using no Whiterun overhauls that are new to me in the sequence. It is just weird. lol

I know I can fix it by completely disabling these “Planters,” as that’s how I was able to troubleshoot it. Just wanted to see if anyone here has experienced it.

[thorny lark]

According to a Google deep dive, this kind of glitch as happened before with USSEP updates in the past. I’m wondering… 🧐

[tight cave]

I've seen this before and only once.

[covert pelican]

Never had anything like this occur with USSEP in the past. There are no planters of any sort in Whiterun at all so the most likely cause is you have an AI mod of some sort that's gone rogue and is pulling in generic NPCs that shouldn't be where they are.

[thorny lark]

That’s interesting. What do you think might be the cause of the spam message of not being able to plant there? I don’t have anything adding planters — as in to plant things in — for Whiterun. The issue is solved if I kill or disable these NPCs. I have no other NPCs name “Planter” in the game, other than these three who magically appear only at the start of the Battle of Whiterun. If I don’t eliminate them as I stated above, it’s then impossible to enter the city interior cell, even with console commands. If I enter a cell, like The Bannered Mare, it’s fine until I exit into Whiterun, then that same spam message occurs.

[thorny lark]

Do you recall, by chance, what were the circumstances when you had this happen? Was it during the Battle of Whiterun, too?

[tight cave]

It was in oldrim a long time ago. In an overly modded save file 💀

[thorny lark]

What’s interesting about this game save is I wouldn’t consider it very heavily modded by most standards. It’s been running smoothly with no issues, really, for 170+ hours until this weirdness.

[covert pelican]

The spam messages are probably just a side effect of those guys showing up where they don't belong.

[thorny lark]

Thanks, Arthmoor. I appreciate your work, by the way.

[thorny lark]

I found him: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unused_NPCs#Planter

[covert pelican]

He's technically not unused, but he obviously still shouldn't be in Whiterun.

[thorny lark]

Shouldn’t be cloned thrice, either, all loitering during a battle.

[covert pelican]

Right, but the way those guys typically work is you have one NPC for each individual planter that's available. So seeing 3 of them isn't as surprising as seeing any of them.

It does kind of make me wonder if there's some specific thing you're using that added 3 planters somewhere but they didn't understand how the NPC part works.

[grizzled torrent]

I downloaded WolvenKit over the weekend for Cyberpunk modding. Regardless of derpage that happens when using the CK and funny stuff like above, I just want to thank the Bethesda devs for giving us an actual editor to use and manipulate game assets.

[molten acorn]

Arth, is it possible someone modded in 3 planter NPCs somewhere using the Whiterun guard template, or by duplicating an NPC that would ordinarily show up during the battle?

[covert pelican]

Yes, that's possible, though I'm not sure why one would do that.

[rich kiln]

If it's always 3 and no more or less I'd be inclined to think maybe something mod-induced has gone wrong with the radiant encounter system.

Maybe they got thrown into a leveled list they shouldn't be in, etc.

[covert pelican]

Part of a faction they don't belong in would be a solid guess.

Especially if it's the civil war stuff that's triggering it. The quest that handles clearing the streets has a lot of weird conditions on it.

[thorny lark]

What’s interesting to me is I’ve been looking for the actual planters (to plant things) to see what these fellows may be attached to just for my curiosity’s sake. I haven’t found three planters yet. JK’s Whiterun doesn’t add any that I know of. I wonder if it is the farm mod I decided to try that adds some additional plots outside the city somehow triggering them to retreat into the city when the battle starts? I’ll mess around with it later and see if disabling that mod prior to the battle does anything.

[shadow lily]

Does you have an overhaul for Breezehome that puts any planters in there?

[thorny lark]

Maybe because they cannot leave the city after the battle stuff is over, then it continues to trigger the “You can’t plant that here” message when I enter the city later?

[thorny lark]

No, I do not. That would be the most logical place to start looking if I did, though.

My Breezehome is vanilla

[covert pelican]

This is likely why the NPCs used in Hearthfire are contained within a hidden cell that's not part of any locations and has no links to anywhere in the actual game world.

If someone placed these 3 in a cell that's actually attached somewhere and marked it as part of their location then it would be one possible reason they're being pulled into the city.

[thorny lark]

Like you said, they don’t belong there. haha

[covert pelican]

Have you tried opening the console to click on the NPCs to see what ID they have? That ought to be able to track them down pretty quickly unless they've been spawned in somehow.

[thorny lark]

I’ll do that

[molten acorn]

You might also try loading your entire list in xedit, find the planter NPCs within the HearthFires dlc, then which/if any mods touch them. When you mentioned your farm mod, I wondered about any AI overhaul type mods that might affect mod-added planter NPCs.

[thorny lark]

What makes this puzzle tricky to solve is it’s on my Xbox game save. If I were playing on my PC, then it would be much easier. These abominations are definitely the Planter NPCs that are associated with the Hearthfire planters — they are not supposed to be spawning in here at all. Ryn’s Farm AIO is not (I don’t think) the culprit now that I’ve dug into it a bit. I would like to figure out what is at the root because I am curious like that. I’ll keep fiddling with it. They have the id of the Hearthfire planter, are essential unless I force them not to be, and do absolutely nothing but stand there near the gate. They aren’t aggressive and don’t run or defend themselves. I have to either make them inessential and kill them, which doesn’t cause a problem because they are not a part of any faction, or I have to disable them entirely in order to prevent the weird spam message glitch I described before.

And, keep in mind, they absolutely do not show up until The Battle Whiterun.

This triggers their arrival at the city gate. All is well during the battle, etc., but it’s the entering of Whiterun later that is the issue. It’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen happen with my modding experiences in all games I’ve ever modded.

[tight cave]

Maybe they just wanted to become sentient beings 💀

[gloomy leaf]

Those poor Hearthfire planters. They give their lives in the service of helping your plants grow with most players never realizing their sacrifices, standing cold and alone in some enclosed cell. Never seeing the sun which graces the very plants they provide. They're crying out for recognition and love. In protest of their abandonment they arrive at the gates of Whiterun right as the battle between the Stormcloaks and Imperials has begun. They stand at the gates crying out “You can’t plant that here! You can't plant your hate and your war upon us anymore!" Press "F" to pay some respect to these valiant creatures growing your stockpile of illegal jarrin root.

[thorny lark]

I feel exposed…

I mean, at least they have each other? There’s also someone named Fish Hatchery there to keep ‘em company.

[tight cave]

Lmao I think the windstad fish hatchery npc got lost. They must have migrated from windstad manor 👀

[thorny lark]

That’s the NPC in the cell that these Planters are never supposed to leave. lol

There’s several of these Panters in that cell. It’s like a special test cell in the game’s nether regions.

[molten acorn]

the gardeners and fisherfolk are relegated to the dungeon away from dungeon.

Somebody should make a Mike Rowe npc and stick him in there with 'em

[tight cave]

Did you ever figure out the issue that was making them appear as the npcs 👀

[thorny lark]

I haven’t been able to pinpoint what mod or combination of mods caused it yet. It may end up on Unsolved Mysteries.

[tight cave]

Rip well it's probably just Skyrim being potato

[thorny lark]

I mean, I was able to get past the quest. If kill or disable them during that battle they are gone from the game and the problem is solved, but it’s just weird. I had to mark them as inessential and do some other voodoo to make that happen, but I did it. I’m glad I have knowledge of how to play and mod this game on PC, as well as FO4 and other games, or I would have been in a real pickle. I reckon there are three planters/plots in the game somewhere in or near Whiterun now that don’t work because the guys have been removed. I don’t know. I’m not a farmer, anyway. I’m a hero trying to stop all manner of calamities, so ain’t nobody got time fo ‘dat! lol

[gloomy leaf]

I totally want that mod now

starts argument with self about not procrastinating on one mod's development by starting another one

[molten acorn]

😂

[thorny lark]

Applying this writing advice to modding I see

[gloomy leaf]

I certainly haven't done that multiple times with more than one mod.

[nocturne sapphire]

Hi guys …
is there any issues with modding Skyrim & other BGS from Xbox Game Pass sub ? I’ve heard there’s some restrictions on how we modify the files

[grizzled torrent]

I'll cop to doing that with all my projects except tiny ones that take 5 minutes to make. I'm still procrastinating.... I mean working on two projects that have your suggestions in them from a couple years ago. >_>

[grizzled torrent]

My limited understanding is that anything F4SE-related is out for Gamepass players. someone else will need to verify though. I have things through Steam.

[thorny lark]

I never understood how to make mods. I have tried. just wondering if there's a mod out there for PS4 that allows you to pick up loose items that lie around that Commonwealth. these items from wood crates, Shopping carts/other miscellaneous items that you can pick up and carry back to your settlement to scrap. Just wondering if there is a mod that will actually let you pick these items up to bring back to scrap For their material.

[thorny lark]

Also would love to see subway tokens as a junk item.

[lunar lake]

Modding can be a daunting prospect. When I started modding Morrowind, over 20 years ago, it took me several months before I felt that I understood how things worked. I'm still learning today. Start small. Don't become discouraged. Keep at it and eventually you may be making mods with the best of them. 🙂

[thorny lark]

I have been watching Training videos. I have been trying to make subway tokens in Fallout 4 a junk item. Only because I have like 60 of them in my inventory. Still working on it still learning. Eventually would like to be able to make certain items you cant pick up around the Commonwealth take back to your settlements and scrap. Appreciate the advice I will keep working on it and learning as I go.

[lilac fog]

So, I'm trying to figure out which version of SKSE I need to download. I have Skyrim SE on Steam, but I do not have the AE upgrade. On silverlock.org, there are two zip files: One is for the Anniversary Edition build 2.2.2, game version 1.6.640. The other is for Skyrim SE build 2.0.20, game version 1.5.97. Here's the confusing part: As I already indicated, I do not have the AE upgrade, but my game version is 1.6.640. I don't know which version to download.

[shadow lily]

1.6.640 is the most recent version for both SSE and SSE with the upgrade.

If you haven't done anything fancy and downgraded, you want the version for 1.6.640 @lilac fog

[lilac fog]

@shadow lily okay, thanks. Just wish the SKSE team were a bit more clear.

[trail geyser]

ae is a dlc thenupdate happened refardless

[real sphinx]

@compact tiger console mods go through a conversion process, this can't be reversed. Even if the author could download the file on their PC, the CK could not open it.

[compact tiger]

So the mod are lose forever ?

[real sphinx]

Yes. Mods can only be recovered if they are uploaded for PC.

[compact tiger]

But why bethesda remove the thing for contact uploader , even comment ?

[real sphinx]

Mods need to be converted to work on Xbox and PlayStation. There is no way to undo the conversion.

Once a mod is converted, the CK cannot open it.

[compact tiger]

Ok i get it once its done , can't be return

[pallid fjord]

Was there a Steam update today? Getting a bunch of comments there was but I don't see anything

[gloomy leaf]

It's apparently really buggy, that might be why the author took it down.

[covert pelican]

No, there's no Steam update pending.

[lilac fog]

Are there any compatibility issues between Immersive Weapons, Lore Weapon Expansion, and Heavy Armory - New Weapons?

[grizzled torrent]

Post links to those. Doing a search just adds a bunch of weapons mods to look through.

[pallid fjord]

Thanks mate, looks like it's just people who missed the ones last month and are coming back then.

[solar mauve]

aers comes thru again - SSE Engine Fixes has been updated

[silver ledge]

Trying to update my mod for XB1 and I keep getting this error
https://i.imgur.com/pYHXMvn.jpeg
Never had this problem uploading with Creation Kit until now. Anyone else getting this lately?

[grizzled torrent]

You'll need to nudge support if you haven't. Out of curiosity what's the file size and what type of files are in the BA2?

[silver ledge]

Meshes and textures only. Meshes in main bsa is 42mb and textures is 8mb so about 50mb for both

[north stag]

That’s been happening to me for months, I can’t upload anything over 30mb without getting that

Last I heard support was still investigating but that was a few months ago

[covert pelican]

Is that just on the FO4 side?

[north stag]

Skyrim side for me

My best guess is because I have a very slow network, even though the upload is happening and no disconnections occur, the server somehow times out if the upload is going too slow

[covert pelican]

How slow? I only have 5mbit upload and USSEP is alot bigger than 30 MB and it never does that to me unless the server is actually jacked.

[north stag]

200kbps upload

[covert pelican]

ouch

[north stag]

Centurylink is the bane of my existence

[covert pelican]

Huh. That's who I have too.

[trail geyser]

a service can provide very different quality depending on where you live

[north stag]

Yeah, I’m way up in the mountains with 30+ year old copper wire and the top speed they offer here is 4mbps down, 200-600kbps up.

So yeah even through I can run a network monitor and confirm there’s no dropped packets or disconnects, maybe Bethnet still just has some arbitrary timeout where it cancels the upload if it’s taking too long

It’s frustrating since I have a lot of updates I want to upload but cant :/

[covert pelican]

Well our copper isn't any better here since I live in the boonies. So I take what I can get since nobody offers fiber and satellite service is a joke.

[floral cape]

Spectrum cable here where I'm currently living, which is good enough, but it's cable.

It's not that bad until I have to share upload with my sibling which has a tendency to play games like [grindy space wannabe MMO]

[north stag]

I’m just hoping for starlink to arrive so I can start uploading and downloading big mods

[covert pelican]

Don't expect too much from that. The latency on hops 1 and 2 is a killer 😛

[trail geyser]

the latency of starlinks still lower then other satellite internet

and lower in alot of conditions then my wired internet

the problem with satellite internet is theres no reason for it to be so slow

[silver ledge]

I experimented uploading at full speed, 3/4 and 1/2 and the actual time of file upload before failing was about the same but the percentage of green bar before going red reflected the speed set so full made it to about ~60% and 1/2 ~30%. So it does feel like the server sets a time limit for upload to finish by when it starts and if it goes over that just stops even though the upload is still going fine just slower then it expected. My average up is about 100 kilobyte/s since I am on DSL. Still wondering what changed as like I said was able to upload that same size earlier at that speed for my mod

[vivid sable]

I wont bother with solar flare activity and atmospheric conditions that plays hell with Sat Signals, and which 11 year cycle are we in again?

[tight cave]

So my plan to patch swift steed stables hasn't happened yet. I overslept today. But booting up my laptop and setting up things now. I know it's probably strange that I'm patching a mod thats made it all the way to sse from oldrim. But I am very passionate about horses.

If anyone has any recommendations on what I'll need to make the official creation kit to not lag like it's running on a toaster instead of a decent computer, feel free to let me know either on here or in dms.

This is actually my first dive into modding even though it's not anything big or complicated.

[lilac fog]

@grizzled torrent here's a link to Immersive Weapons https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/16788

@grizzled torrent Lore Weapon Expansionhttps://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/9660

@grizzled torrent Heavy Armory https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6308

@grizzled torrent and now that I think about it Dawnguard Arsenal https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/25094

[grizzled torrent]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure why you are tagging me with Skyrim mods.

If one is going to use them, look at them with xEdit to make sure there are no overlaps.

I don't use weapon mods.

[rich kiln]

I think I may get one or more of those tbh.

[rich kiln]

Not even Leanwolf's Better-Shaped Weapons?

[grizzled torrent]

Heavy Armory does look appealing, actually.

I may have used it on Xbox a time or two but have never on PC.

[rich kiln]

I can't play without that one anymore tbh. Aside from making all the swords look better, it fixes the design of daedric and dragon arrows.

[grizzled torrent]

I play more for the exploration rather than the battling.

[rich kiln]

It's mostly the arrows being fixed I wanted tbh. I can suspend disbelief pretty far, but the way those arrow heads are shaped in vanilla goes over the line to me.

[grizzled torrent]

I never noticed. >_> I play with specialized camera edits that give me almost an isometric viewpoint. It makes aiming more challenging.

[rich kiln]

Also damn those dawnguard swords look nice.

Err, wait, no leather strapping on the handles?

Oh, I see. It's a single piece instead woven strapping.

[grizzled torrent]

Oh. That battle hammer in the Dawnguard arsonal looks awesome.

Lore Weapon Expansion looks good too. InsanitySorrow's stuff is always nice to look at.

[grizzled torrent]

xD Yuss. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/76452

Priorities. >_>

[tight cave]

Best chicken replacer out there. 👀

[grizzled torrent]

I don't know if I'll use it but I downloaded it just to give an endorsement.

I have chickens IRL.

[gloomy leaf]

More RAM. CK is a ram hungry beast but generally speaking it's just slow period. Start your mod file to loading then go grab a cup of coffee or other drink of choice (alcohol may be best).

[tight cave]

Well I got 8gb of ram so I'm good.

[gloomy leaf]

16 is even better

[lunar lake]

I have 16mb RAM and it takes me longer to load the CK than it does the game itself. 😆

[tight cave]

It's certainly slow but since I grabbed the fixes it's not being slow as a snail.

[gloomy leaf]

The CK Fixes comes with its own set of issues so do your homework on that

[slim reef]

Wait, there's people with less than 64gb?

[tight cave]

Oh I did beforehand

[gloomy leaf]

Sadly yes LunarNeko 😭

[tight cave]

I'm only using the ck to copy AI data onto existing horses to work with immersive horses.

[tight cave]

Most people don't buy a 64gb computer the average is usually 6gb to 8gb depemding on if you buy a cheap computer or not

[gloomy leaf]

xEdit might be quicker if you're familiar enough with it. Personally most things I still prefer to do in the CK with a gui but there are definitely times when xEdit is just faster

[tight cave]

Standard though is 8gb

[gloomy leaf]

I think 16 is standard these days

[slim reef]

Yeah, that's fair lol I just find 8gb is just way too low for most things now a days. I do a lot of VR work, so I needed the extra

[tight cave]

Mostly yeah but 8gb is average for laptop I'm getting new computer soon

[slim reef]

I was running into bottlenecks on 8gb

[gloomy leaf]

yeah I'd be miserable on 8

[tight cave]

My desktop that is 10 years is an 8gb 🤣

[gloomy leaf]

yeah but it's 10 years old

[tight cave]

And ir has graphics card processor that bottlenecks it 🤣

And has an old ass amd processor and if I bump into it the plug loosens 🤣

[slim reef]

Yeah. I went with a total new build when I upgraded from my 7 year old PC

Since I had an old moba, so I couldn't just add more RAM. So I said screw it and just got a whole new one.

[gloomy leaf]

and I thought my desktop was getting old

at least mine's only like 3? years old

[tight cave]

That thing played skyrim LE for a long time. It still works. But I'd be better off gutting the tower amd building custom into it

[gloomy leaf]

I make mods for Fallout 4 so I require a beefier rig

[slim reef]

I got a new case too, since I got a 3070

[tight cave]

I just don't feel like custom would be any more cost efficient 👀

Given the size of the tower

it would be easier to get a high end prebuilt that can be upgraded then to search for parts 💀

[gloomy leaf]

custom can be more cost efficient if you do your homework and self-assemble. Biggest cost factor is the graphics card and due to prices on those it's often cheaper now to buy a whole new system just for the graphics card in it.'

[tight cave]

well we're not hurting for money

[gloomy leaf]

need a spouse or adult child? I'm available 😄

[slim reef]

I did a custom "pick and build" PC. Got a brand new 3070 and 5900x at the end of 2020 when they were hard to find. It has its advantages

[tight cave]

I live with my parents 🤣 at the age 29 we live on water property

[gloomy leaf]

I'm mid-40's. I'm not ashamed to live with your parents. 😄

[tight cave]

I was considering a pick a build type thing with alienware but hear dell customer service is awful

[gloomy leaf]

Heck I'd live with my parents if they'd have me and didn't drive me absolutely bonkers 😄

alienware is ridiculously overpriced just to get the name.

you're better off buying equivalent hardware without the alienware brand

[slim reef]

Alienware used to be good, but yeah they got bought by Dell and it's really just in name now

[tight cave]

I don't want to build a computer myself

[gloomy leaf]

I started building my own computers in high school so I'm used to it but it's definitely nice to just have a whole computer show up at your doorstep too

[tight cave]

I just want to be able to customize one that isn't like going to be obsolete in 2 years

I prefer beefy laptops but only because I sit on my bed a lot with laptop table

[gloomy leaf]

gaming laptops are so expensive

for hardcore gaming I'm more comfortable at a desk anyway

I'm getting too old to do that on a couch or bed, makes the whole body hurt

[grizzled torrent]

I got a "gaming" computer from Best Buy. At the time I was pricing it to build my own, it ended up being $200 cheaper for identical hardware. The only difference was the fan and power. it's about time for an upgrade but that won't be happening for at least another year.

[gloomy leaf]

thanks to GPU prices in recent years I've not been able to afford the usual upgrade cycle

[tight cave]

I've needed an upgrade for a while my 1 terabyte old laptop npy the one I am using has 3 dead usb ports and has seen better days

It alsl tinted the screen pink randomly one day.

Neeeds repairs cause back up.

I had a 2 year old acer laptop that got killed by an optional update windows made. It won't even boot up to the recovery menu so I think the keyboards broken.

[grizzled torrent]

I'm just the opposite. I gotta have my couch. I'm glad controllers have gotten more ergonomic though.

[tight cave]

Like the 2 year old acer is a brick. the 4 year old hp needs repairs and I'm using my father's 32 bit asus

It sucks because that optional update killed a lot of new and old computers

It almost killed my hp

But I reinstalled windows 10 and turned off optional updates

I no longer trust any optional windows updates

Microsoft windows "Doesn't have bugs" even when it does

It's known bug and they did nothing to remedy it so lots of computers had broken files that prevented boot up.

We own a disk drive with windows 10 on it because of that.

Makes me so mad cause I was trying to learn modding on that computer too

[trail geyser]

… they never said it doesnt have bugs

[tight cave]

They may as well have cause Bill Gates implied that fixing bugs is too costly 💀

[trail geyser]

… you do know how aoftware works right?

its not even physically possible to make bug free software

[tight cave]

Yes

I'm just mad that an optional update bricked one of the laptops I own

That wasn't even that old.

[zinc delta]

Let's get back on topic, please.

[gentle owl]

mod release dwarven mech infantry armor.this mod adds 2 sets of light dwemer mech armors (2 cuirass,3 helmets,2 gauntlets,1 boots,each has a female and male version) one outfit is a cyborg half human half machine the other is a full machine,i also equiped faleen with a outfit she is now a android (i might switch her outfit for the cyborg) it seemed like a good way to add the armor immersively with the quest the book of love.the armor can be bought from the markath castle blacksmith (he is inside the keep) you can also craft/temp it if you have the dwemer perk (dwarfen ignots are required) xbox https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4293768 pc https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4293776

[verbal bear]

Ik this probaly gets asked alot but how do i go by fixing this flowchartsx.dll error

without doing cmnd prompts?

[warm crown]

@zinc delta quick question

thoughts on shaun bat?

since you dont like violence against children

or shaun launcher

[zinc delta]

I not once said I was for or against either option. Your question was about a mod, which is why I directed you here.

[warm crown]

but still

thoughts?

[wise ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-john-krasinski-jim-halpert-no-comment-gif-4812541

[zinc delta]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-no-strong-feelings-one-way-or-the-other-gif-14336652

[flat cargo]

I ummm would say no to that question.

[slender siren]

Assuming you're talking about the CK run it as administrator at least once

[verbal bear]

I did multiple times and it just crashes when opening up scenes

[gloomy leaf]

Google-fu suggests registering the dll (directions in link) or disabling your anti-virus since running as admin didn't work. https://www.reddit.com/r/CreationKit/comments/uzmjzh/comment/id0qp55/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[verbal bear]

All good I figured it out

And then made my mod

And then it all deleted

Yay

[grizzled torrent]

If it's Skyrim, try running with Windows 8 compatibility and make a copy of the xml file under DialogueViews in your data folder. If you're running through MO2, I'm uncertain where the DialogueViews go so you might have to check your overwrite folder.

[spring osprey]

idk if this is the right place but anyways; I've got an issue where I'm making this player home, CK for fo4 and I can't get my companions to spawn in with me.

If you've got any suggestions @ me.

[gloomy leaf]

Did you add navmesh and use a loading door connected to the navmesh?

[spring osprey]

No I haven't done that, I'll go ahead and try that.

Thanks

[terse wyvern]

nvm I read the rules

[agile rock]

I’m having trouble connecting to Bethesda Servers, neither fallout or Skyrim will work. I’ve tried unplugging my router but I’m still having trouble connecting. I can go on YouTube and Netflix just fine though.

[spring osprey]

Hey, I've got a small issue; for some reason my companions do not interact with markers inside my player home. @ me if you've got an answer.

[gloomy leaf]

I highly recommend Darkfox tutorials. They are for Skyrim but still very much apply to Fallout 4. This goes over different methods, I suggest setting faction ownership on the idle markers to the companions faction. https://youtu.be/TO2N9ZuuGMA

Seddon and Kinggath have the best F4 specific tutorials. Both on YouTube as well.

Kinggath's series is called Bethesda Modding School

[spring osprey]

Yeah I've watched a ton of all these guys as I've been making the mod, great lot of help.

Also, thanks for pointing it out!

[spring osprey]

Little update (I guess), I havn't got it to work.

[grizzled torrent]

That’s a good tutorial but here are some additional things to check: Is your character idling as well? Have you finalized the navmesh? I don’t currently have the CK open but there’s a hot key to select to check the collision of objects around your markers. Doublecheck that they can actually navigate to them. The entrance to each marker has to be within the navmesh.

Are you testing on a new game or are the markers already loaded into memory from a older test?

Make sure the markers aren’t already baked into your save if you’re actively testing. Don’t make saves or use exit saves during tests so there’s no persistent data to give false positives or other derpage.

Seddon4494 also has some good tutorials. They’re short, he’s well-spoken, his CK windows aren’t all over the screen, and he doesn’t meander.

[grizzled torrent]

7 hours later I realize that DAmanding already mentioned Seddon. I read gud. >_>

[timber bolt]

what would be an acceptable number for gbs for starfield on the xbox

[gentle owl]

it depends how much mod support it gets (fallout 4 didnt get alot of mod support its mostly gun ports from other games) also what size the assets are if there larger they will need alot more space,i cant think of any mods for it other than a few outfits,they should go with the max amount they can there is no reason not too

[grizzled torrent]

Fallout 4 has full modding support. We have an ingame mods manager. We have Elric, texconv, and xtexconv for texture and model conversion (including Xbox conversion), a 3DS max nif converter, plus the Creation Kit. The only two things we no longer have is the material files editor since Bethesda retired the internal website used by the json files and the ability to use the 32 bit CK for lip file creation for dialogue. There is this channel for mod discussion as well as their wiki. What other tools are necessary or are missing that would be considered lack of mod support?

I did cringe the other day when I read a “how to port to Xbox” info graphic that states that BC7 compression is ok for Xbox when the official xtexconv blog specifically states otherwise.

Xbox doesn’t support the compression

Check the official blog

They have a list of compressions not supported

Xbox is not PC

Which is why I don’t play with ports.

Hopefully, the conversion process through the CK converts it to the CCC header and gives it the appropriate compression rate. I haven’t looked at it with a hex editor to see what that header looks like.

Conversion between one compression rate to the other is gonna be super lossy on quality though and if it is just straight up using the same compression rate, then Xbox is gonna uncompress the whole thing so absolutely no optimization is gonna be going on.

They’ve updated the blog with a new post for series s|x but BC7 is still not listed as a compression rate that is supposed to be used.

[rancid hearth]

One of the reasons weapon/armor mods can make your game extremely unstable, unfortunately

[covert pelican]

If the mods are being processed by the CK properly during upload, do you really know that it's still using BC7 on the console's end of things? Part of the processing is changing texture formats into things the XBox will understand.

[grizzled torrent]

Is there a better hex editor to use than HxD? I’ll double check. I don’t think it’s converting the compression rate though. Faces in FO4 on Xbox will stop rendering even when facegen is uploaded.

Those are supposed to be BC7 for PC.

[covert pelican]

No idea, this is the one I used: http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delphi/freeware/xvi32/xvi32.htm

[grizzled torrent]

I'll give than one a try. All the header info says with HxD is DDS Xbox. Which is oh so helpful.

Here's the blog posts, btw. I was on phone and could not find my bookmarks. https://walbourn.github.io/directx-and-uwp-on-xbox-one/

With game mode there's access to additional memory and resources for running the game.

But all that info is under lock and key if you aren't an xbox game developer. So what is in the blogs is what we have to go by.

Maximum available memory in game mode should be around 5 GB. PC version of FO4 can take about 8 to run if a crap ton of textures are involved. Possibly more.

Source allocation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/system-resource-allocation

[gloomy leaf]

I can say that from what I recall of experiments that using the CK to create a texture archive of BC7 format the file size of the archive is significantly larger than using the CK to create an archive with DXT formatted textures.

[grizzled torrent]

File size is also an issue. I'm more concerned about memory allocation and how the box is actually reading it.

[gloomy leaf]

I'm saying that file size suggests that the CK processing may not necessarily be converting to proper file type

[grizzled torrent]

Apologies. I'm knee deep in reading all the things and misread what you wrote.

[gloomy leaf]

Well to be completely fair I didn't actually say it, it was not really even inferred unless you follow my brain patterns

[grizzled torrent]

My social skills suck tonight. I'm in nerd-mode. >_>

[gloomy leaf]

You're fine, I'm half asleep and really should be sleeping instead of here on discord. 😁

[grizzled torrent]

I think the two porters above are from Skyrim though. Anyone know what a fully modded PC Skyrim allocates to memory?

[thorny lark]

Ha, many people tell people that it should always be used.

I even know of an instance someone was banned from a server for denying that bc7 was best performance for console, and that them not using bc7 was "not having the Xbox users best interests at heart"

[grizzled torrent]

Well, it isn't supported on Xbox. The official documentation says so.

[covert pelican]

It's pretty hard to argue with official specs. Even if it's Microsoft.

[grizzled torrent]

It looks like they've retired the github page for xtexconv. I would have linked the command line info there.

One should be able to use it like texconv though and texassemble is available for download for cubemaps.

That github page is the page that had the most information about the format. :/ Ugh.

Oh. I read gud. The new version of texconv is for use for everything (but you have to have the Xbox SDK for conversion). I r smrt. Yup. But I'm still going to grumble they took down the info for xtexconv. >_>

[grizzled torrent]

FOUND IT. (I think) https://github.com/microsoft/Xbox-ATG-Samples/tree/main/XDKSamples/Tools/xtexconv

I'd forgotten that Xbox One X has a different format than Xbox One until re-reading the info.

Don't mind me I'm just talking out loud. Y'all have fun.

Also correcting myself. I said CCC earlier and meant FourCC which should be set to DX10 formatting. xtexconv should do all this but I'm still worried that one should already have it in a format that is readable by Xbox before converting since all xtextconv is is just an extension of texconv.

[thorny lark]

Oh I'm not disagreeing. I argued against bc7 right along with them, I just wasn't wasn't there to get banned for it lol

[grizzled torrent]

I have the info about BC7 format on the Survival Guide. I cannot remember when I added it. I also cannot remember when I wrote the texture article for my website but it was before the migration to the domain name and new CMS. I'd just forgotten there was a specific format for the XOX.

All those modded textures for XOX may or may not be uncompressed because while we do have xtexconv, it doesn't allow us to specify the format. it's just "XB1". Unless we can run a command line for it on the CK? If so would have to do two different mods, one for Xbox One/Xbox Series X|S and then one for XOX.

Oh wait, no. We still have the original version of the xtexconv, don't we? That wouldn't include the XOX updates. Nvm. Nothing to see here.

[gentle owl]

that is for the original xbox after series console release they are directx 12 there are lots of different xboxes with different specs

for bc7 it is good for skyrim but i think the default is better for f4

[grizzled torrent]

That is for all Xboxes. We don't have a way to differentiate between them and would have to create separate mods for each texture set. Mod for original (because gamers still game on it) and allow the others to scale as necessary.

[gentle owl]

for your original reply about support i was refering to modder support not tools although i dont think the tools for f4 are good

[gentle owl]

some use direct x 10.0 some (i think all got upgraded to 10.1) but others use 11.0

[grizzled torrent]

None of the files I have extracted from the archives are BC7. Which files are BC7 for Skyrim?

[gentle owl]

for modding it improves performance it also decreases file size alot as an example it helps with alphas

[grizzled torrent]

Wait so it has a lower bit per pixel?

The lower the bits per pixel the higher the performance

[gentle owl]

overall file size for skyrim on f4 if i rember right they are larger,at the pixel level it is great theres alot less blur in the final image unless you dont compress at all

for bits i dont think it changes them all the pixels were the same when i compared a bc7 and a uncompressed

[grizzled torrent]

Then there is no performance gain at all.

[gentle owl]

there is the file size decreases from say 21mb to i think 5.33 also the image is better than other compressions as is very close to the original (you can still tell at the pixel level) ingame performance is also helped aswell

[grizzled torrent]

Alaan, I'm sorry. I'm not sure we're having the same conversation. Compressed BC7 is 8 bits per pixel. It should never be uncompressed. It defeats the purpose of using DDS format. Uncompressed is 64 bit, if I'm not mistaken. Why would anyone in their right mind run a 64 bit uncompressed texture in a video game?

It might be 24 bit. I need to find the info because now I'm really worried.

What an absolute waste of perfectly good RAM that could be used to process scripting.

High performance would be DXT1 or DXT5.

[gentle owl]

i didnt uncompress the bc7 i just compared it to a uncompressed original texture as an example at the pixel level they moved around 1 previously they can go 3/4 when you compress i was happy with the result

[grizzled torrent]

Ah. Ok. I misread.

I haven't slept.

[grizzled torrent]

Slept and re-read. If your textures are blurry, remember that the game meshes are designed for 2k resolution. Rebake your meshes for 1k resolution. Otherwise, yeah. They be blurry AF. Hasn’t anything to do with the compression rate (or shouldn’t).

If you use a high poly mesh and bake to that at 1k, you can then use your new game-ready mesh to bake the more detailed UV to. There’s a Quixel tutorial that shows how to do this but I’m having problems finding it atm. My Google fu is failing.

[gentle owl]

the blur is caused by the compression when i use bc7 the blur/bleed is alot better.what i do if im doing a mesh aswell is make the mesh then try and uv it (im still not great at it,somtimes i get it great and others its bad and i have to start again) i dont bake a texture (i might know it has somthing else),how do you do the texture without a uv

i also dont use quixel is it free

[grizzled torrent]

This one is for Substance, but it is the same concept of going from high to low texture baking. You can also bake with Blender but I'm now out of my realm and a digital artist will have to now step in. https://youtu.be/ST0Z6wIQBuI

[gentle owl]

ive watched a bit of it (i will watch more) he does it different from me i would just put them all into one mesh if i was doing it his way or leave them seprate so i could change them easier,the reason for the bleeding is a mesh issue not a texture issue (kind of but the soultion is with the mesh) but it wasnt the blur i was describing earlier

[grizzled torrent]

I'm sure every artist has their own way of doing things. Searching high to low poly texture baking gave a lot of results.

In other news, I was bored with FO4 and made a thing for Skyrim: https://youtu.be/lgODE2S1F50

Ugh. Skyrim Lighting. -.-

[stone bay]

That's actually a very creative use of the fishing nets! 👍

And plates

[grizzled torrent]

Thanks. No one has done it yet? O_O

[stone bay]

I haven't seen those particular ones used in that way before.

[grizzled torrent]

Oh. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw them. I went, "OMG new lanterns!!"

[thorny lark]

dxt1/dxt5 much smaller than bc7

[gentle owl]

dxt1 is smaller dxt5 is the same but where bc7 works best is with alphas

[thorny lark]

Not once compressed into a bsa

A bsa with dxt5 will be smaller than a bsa with bc7

[gentle owl]

for xbox

[thorny lark]

Period

Xbox or PC

A bsa with dxt5 is smaller than a bsa with bc7

[thorny lark]

For this matter, on Skyrim at least they are one and the same.

I test and use all my Xbox ports on my PC

Which is why I've never really understood the people that are "I can't test the port, don't have an Xbox"

With few exceptions such as editor markers being visible on Xbox, the mods work identically

[gentle owl]

i do it the other way i test on xbox

[thorny lark]

Can test it yourself any time you get a chance. Compress a same sized dxt5 and bc7 into two separate bsas

Dxt5 bsa will be smaller. With a lot of textures, significantly so

[gentle owl]

i rember when i tested it a few years ago i had a texture with alot of detail but alot of it was lost when using bc5 etc when i switched to bc7 the texture was ok

[thorny lark]

Weird that it works that way on Skyrim but not fallout

[thorny lark]

Conversely, every port I do I specifically shy away from bc7 and they look excellent

[gentle owl]

maybe it was because i spent so much time texturing i noticed the details missing

[thorny lark]

And if it's merely the barest of detail lost, the overwhelming majority would find the space saved to be far worth it when space is so limited.

As well as being less strain on the system

[gentle owl]

from what i rember bc7 performanes better than the others with fps etc

[gentle owl]

for the detail i didnt want to give up the detail i worked on the mod over a year (it has hundreds of textures),i do know people would be ok with some loss but i wanted to get as much of what i designed into the mod as possable while still being a small file size bc7 done it for me (there is more i could do to bring the file size down but it wouldnt be alot for the work involved)

[thorny lark]

I respectfully disagree and as do many who have used identical ports other than differing format. Of course I can't speak for them nor prove they said it. But it was said.

[gloomy leaf]

For Xbox according to Microsoft:

If your textures DO NOT include alpha, save the file as DXT1.
If your textures DO include alpha save the file as DXT5.
Normals are almost always DXT5 since they have alphas for the shine values.
Speculars usually are DXT1.
Skin files are BC7

BCx files are best on PC

[thorny lark]

"skin" files?

[thorny lark]

Where is this said

[gloomy leaf]

on one of their developer's blog posts, I don't have the link handy but Turtle above linked to some MS resources

I only kept the notes, not the source unfortunately

[thorny lark]

Which state that bc7 isn't supported

[gloomy leaf]

except for skin files

technically speaking bc7 is supported in that it will render. however it doesn't compress and it's less performance friendly

[thorny lark]

Skin being like, skin of a character?

[gloomy leaf]

yes skin on an NPC

no idea why on that one

my notes are years old

[thorny lark]

Makes no sense whatsoever that they'd be treated any different than any other texture lol

[gloomy leaf]

🤷 I'm passing along the notes I recorded at the time

[thorny lark]

I get ya.

Although that states that they are bc7. Not that they should be.

First two lines specify "save as"

Last ones don't. Just say what they are or usually are

[gloomy leaf]

I thought it odd myself but I have a vague memory of people saying that bc7 for skins did work best in their experience. I can say from personal experience though that the DXTx files for all the rest definitely work best on Xbox

[gloomy leaf]

It's my summarized notes, the inconsistency is mine

[thorny lark]

Gotcha

As for skins, I have a multiple of mods dealing with skin published on console.

Not a single one has bc7

[gloomy leaf]

one of those things where it'll render different formats but some formats compress and perform better, or should be used without compression for appearances sake in the case of skin files perhaps?

[thorny lark]

And the majority of people I encounter say that my ports were a way better experience than they've had with the same mods by other users which I know are bc7 based on I get the exact same size if I don't convert away from it.

Of course, nothing says both experiences aren't true

Other factors to take into account that nobody has lol

[gloomy leaf]

Placebo perception is definitely a thing. Lots of "FPS improvement" mods exist that have been shown on PC to do nothing but some console players will swear by it anyway.

[thorny lark]

That goes for many things. Some pc players likely claim the same. Don't put that on console lol

My favorite claim personally is "crashes are to be expected"

[gloomy leaf]

My personal opinion is that the right thing to do is to use the file types Microsoft recommends for best compression and performance (hence DXTx) to give Xbox players the best experience. If every mod author selfishly uses 4k textures that don't compress or perform well then the overall experience for players degrades in that their performance is worse and their mods take up far more space.

[thorny lark]

Agreed.

[gloomy leaf]

When we converted all the textures for Creative Clutter to DXTx years ago we reduced the mod's file size from around 300mb to around 220mb iirc. It's grown since then with new files but at least now that we're using only Xbox friendly textures the impact is significantly reduced.

[zinc delta]

Let's keep all comments within the #rules please.

[thorny lark]

But not let's focus on something else instead of the several issues this game and its community has

[grizzled torrent]

Which game? This is for FO4 and Skyrim. Fallout 4 has Buffout 4 which is engine fixes and a crash logger to figure out what made the crash and troubleshoot.

[grizzled torrent]

Has anyone had an issue where havok doesn't settle when finishing a cell if Discord is open? The last two CK sessions for both games have crashed out when I attempt to finalize junk/clutter when I have the Discord app open.

[stone bay]

I've never heard of such a thing occuring with Discord, wierd. Does it happen when you just havok simulate one object at a time, multiple objects at once, or both?

[covert pelican]

That's the most bizarre thing I've heard. Never run into it myself and I mod stuff all the time with Discord open. Including Havok sims.

[grizzled torrent]

One at a time and I'm about to try it on a full cell. But I can do it with the app closed. :/ I hope these plugins haven't somehow gotten corrupted.

Or maybe I've just got too many draw calls and don't realize it.

But it's happening for both CKs and only when Discord is open.

Might be a bad collision? Idek.

Oh naturally once I complain about it I can't replicate it on a full cell.

-.-

So weird.

But hey, now it's not crashing. So bonus?

[stone bay]

The only time I've ever had an instant crash on havok sim was for a custom nif with an unorganized branch structure. So yeah, I'm clueless.

[grizzled torrent]

Even the one that was doing it before is ok. :/ I wish I'd recorded it now cuz now I sound like a looney toon.

Now I have to figure out what broke and break it again.

[sterile glade]

Aye odd little turtle. I use to use your mod when start making a load order. Literally only can find it by searching oddlittleturtle

[grizzled torrent]

Yeah. But all my mods should be searchable by using Ugh. with the punctuation.

[sterile glade]

Oh it was ugh. Lol

Sorry I tired

[grizzled torrent]

or you can go to https://oddsmods.xyz and it will call up the full FO4 list on Bethesda. I bought that domain specifically so that it would show the Beth list without having to do a search. I've only got one Skyrim one. I don't have an interest in Xbox modding for Skyrim so there's just that one to help players find mods they need.

[sterile glade]

I don't play fallout. I actually never played but 1. For like a hour. New Vegas.

[grizzled torrent]

If you want to filter for SSE: add /SSE at the end of that domain and it will bring you right to it.

New Vegas is great. It's what led me to pre-order FO4. Vault 11. omg. That vault.

[sterile glade]

AHH. thank you. And all I remember is a playground and running around. Literally was over 10 years ago lol

[real sphinx]

@barren wadi @storm bay are you still having issues when accessing the Bethesda.net Mods website?

[storm bay]

ill check

seems ok now on my PC

[real sphinx]

Thanks!

[barren wadi]

No, but thank you for asking.

[pliant bluff]

It still doesn’t work can’t access the website and mods.

[median shard]

im a lil bit behind on everything going on but ive just seen a post about Substill taking down all of his mods permanently? is this true?

[shadow lily]

As of now, he's got 122 XBox mods showing up on bethesda.net.

[keen plover]

Does anyone know if there is a ps4 mod that makes preston not essintal?

[grizzled torrent]

I'm genuinely curious as to the draw of porting mods over creating new things. The topic was brought up in #port-rules-chat-1. How many hours do porters play before deciding they want to port a mod? I see a bunch of people with hundreds of just ports. How many hours do any of you actually get to play and enjoy what you've ported?

[shadow lily]

I guess some of it is that someone has changed platforms or plays on both, and having converted a mod for their own usage thinks it would be helpful to make that available to the community as a whole.

Or wants to make sure a mod that's only on a limited number of sites is available more generally.

[grizzled torrent]

The ones I've ported I did for myself but made them public since it's Xbox. But I've put in at least 1500+ vanilla hours in FO4 before ever modding the game and then met a modder who loves creating for the community. So things were already made. I'm just curious as to why others do. I played Skyrim on 360 for years and then went to PC to play with mods. Then back to Xbox when they came out there but Series X is too powerful and has a different texture system so back to PC for Skyrim if I play. But that's me. Why do others do it?

[shadow lily]

🤷 I'm PC only at the moment because I don't have a TV to pair with a console (nothing worth watching most of the time, and I get by with on-demand if I ever get bored enough to want to watch something consistently).

[median shard]

personally i dont even use a TV, i just bought a standard monitor a while back when i moved and it's served me just fine. saves me having to pay for a TV license for one i dont even use too (in the uk we pay essentially a tax for owning and using TVs)

also is beth.net down for anyone else

cant access the mods section on the site whatsoever

[shadow lily]

Yeah, I'm UK based too - but I've managed (so far) to point out to them that I don't have a TV, and I don't watch live TV on my computer either.

[shadow lily]

About 2 hours ago Carto posted they're looking into reports of that.

#modding-news message

[grizzled torrent]

yes. I did not get an error when I uploaded a mod a little while ago but the mod page is empty. When I attempted to login to Xbox to see if uploaded, I was unable to log on.

I've only attempted on one of my accounts though. I should probably try the main one and see if there's an issue there as well.

Why is it every time I go to upload the site borkenates? Same thing happens when I decide to play FO76. The servers go down. It was me. I totally jinx'd the Bethesda servers.

[zinc delta]

Try rebooting your consoles and internet routers? The status page is showing as all things being operational. 🤔

[grizzled torrent]

I'll try. I'm dying laughing atm though. Every. Single. Time.

This is how I mod: https://www.reddit.com/r/StartledCats/comments/y963un/kitty_does_not_trust_the_cupcake_wrapper/

[grizzled torrent]

I might need to submit a bug report for the Skyrim "My Mods" side. It's listing 35394 mods that I've never authored as being authored.

[sand halo]

What do you mean Series X is "too powerful and has a different texture system?"

[zinc delta]

Submitting a ticket sounds like a good idea. 😅

[grizzled torrent]

brb dying laughing

[grizzled torrent]

Observations while playing. Consecutive crashes on vanilla in the same places where they do not crash on Xbox One S. As well as: https://github.com/Microsoft/Xbox-ATG-Samples/tree/main/XDKSamples/Tools/xtexconv

[remote canyon]

someone on reddit said they had 35000+ mods in their library...

[fading ether]

Is that why you never sleep?

[grizzled torrent]

Are they going to file a bug report? I don't want to poke the moderation team if it is not necessary.

[remote canyon]

didn't say

[grizzled torrent]

Look at me making the stuff. \0/

Alright. I'll go ahead and submit a report then.

[covert pelican]

Sleep is for the weak!

[grizzled torrent]

I've found my spirit animal.

[covert pelican]

Also been meaning to ask all day, what's the Constellation icon thing?

[sand halo]

Huh, I haven't played vanilla in a very long time. I mainly play on Series S but never had any issues on Series X with mods at least.

[grizzled torrent]

If you click on the latest Constellation news article there's a discord link that adds it and gives you a new place to chat about Starfield. I think I was supposed to get goodies in my email but haven't. I had to click from the website.

[bold elk]

Got fallout 76 modded file for sale dm me

[grizzled torrent]

No

[atomic crescent]

I’m having trouble loading the Skyrim mod pages on the website, it’s just those pages. It’s happening on all my devices, is anyone else having trouble and found a solution?

[grizzled torrent]

You know what, I totally blanked on the modding-news channel. There was a post about it earlier. I am so sorry.

[atomic crescent]

I’ve just seen 😊 thank you

I’m restarting my router, someone suggested that further up

I also blocked pop ups and cleared cache & cookies, but that didn’t help

[grizzled torrent]

Same. I'm just piddling in NMS tonight. 😄

[atomic crescent]

It’s 8am here & I was hoping to get my mod list sorted to have a play through 😩

[grizzled torrent]

Well, now's a great time to delete saves and do a cache clearance. If you're on PS4/PS5 can take the time to do a database rebuild.

[atomic crescent]

That’s a good idea, I’ve come from PC to Xbox, so it’s all new to me. I’ve been using reddit to help me lol

[fading ether]

Then you’ve been lucky enough to stumble upon the exact right turtle for advice.

[atomic crescent]

Rebooting the router didn’t work either

[grizzled torrent]

It is 3-ish in the morning for the studio but I don't know if that affects server work. We can only wait for the moment.

I have a mod I have to test for one of my team mates so am waiting myself.

[atomic crescent]

Only 5-6 hours to wait till they’re in the office then 😂

[atomic crescent]

I managed to click on a mod link from Reddit and it opened no problem, but when I clicked on the Skyrim mods page from the drop down menu, I got lots of pop ups saying ‘failed to load mod categories’ and it sent me back to the main page.

[gentle owl]

its working for me

[atomic crescent]

Yes it doesn’t seem to be happening to everyone

[gentle owl]

somtimes that happens only a few people get effected the only thing i can suggest is waiting it does fix itself after awhile

[grizzled torrent]

@fluid sand https://github.com/microsoft/Xbox-ATG-Samples/blob/main/XDKSamples/Tools/xtexconv/xtexconv.sln

Xbox has totally different structures than PC.

It has to be converted from PC.

[fluid sand]

Makes no difference. Go and find a mod on nexus that is packed in a .bsa. Upload to Xbox. Works fine, zero changes needed.

[balmy ingot]

You are uploading via the CK. It's the CK that changes the format.

[grizzled torrent]

That's why I asked my question earlier if Keystroke had planned to purchase a copy of the game on Steam for everyone using his site.

[fluid sand]

The claim was that you have to repackage a mod to get it to work on Xbox. You do not

[grizzled torrent]

You are repackaging it.

[balmy ingot]

Look in steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\ExportArchiveRootXB1 and you will find the converted textures that the CK bundles into a new bsa for XBox

[grizzled torrent]

Look in steamapps\common\Fallout 4\data\XB1 for FO4.

It also does the conversion for optimizing scripting and sound files for FO4

Ok. I don't think that is going to work. The whole point of playing on Xbox is because it is cheaper, and PC is not feasible for running the CK, and many do not know how to mod. There were arguments to that effect. And I apologize for being grouchy about it earlier.

[inner roost]

Yeah, I’m tech savvy to an extent, but I don’t know how to mod. A lot of the terms y’all are using are making my brain hurt.

[grizzled torrent]

Come mod with us. We has cookies.

[fluid sand]

I don’t have that folder, and have uploaded plenty mods, but this also seems so far besides the point I wonder if we aren’t talking at cross-purposes.

The claim was that private Xbox ports have to repackage mods, and are therefore in some way different to PC users use of mods and so are the rules for permissions covering the publication of mods on are somehow relevant.

Which is crazy. A private use of a mod, whether by a PC player or an Xbox player, is exactly the same. It isn’t being republished anywhere. It’s being used, privately.

[storm bay]

I dont have that folder either, are you using CK to pack BSAs or Archive ?

[grizzled torrent]

CK

I don't touch Archive with a 10 foot pole.

[storm bay]

I never, ever ever ever use CK lol

[balmy ingot]

So how do you upload for XBox?

[storm bay]

snipey would agree with me 100%

[grizzled torrent]

That's what I was wondering.

[storm bay]

of course I CK to upload, I mean I use archive to make the BSAs

*use

[grizzled torrent]

Is this something they've removed for the SSE Fixes mod?

Because I don't use that

[storm bay]

the fallout archive utility is ancient and took me a wihle to get my head around packing sound files

[grizzled torrent]

Regardless, you should have an Xb1 folder in the data folder. It holds the Xb1 archive.

[balmy ingot]

You can make your own bsa's with archive and drop them into the Data\XB1 folder mid-process. Is that what you are doing?

[storm bay]

have the XB1 folder

not drag and drop, archive puts them there

[fluid sand]

I created a XB1 folder. If there is a .bsa already made on Nexus you can just download it and drop it straight into it, no repackaging required.

If there are loose files and I need to pack them then I use Archive.

[storm bay]

I alwyays unpack BSAs cutty, often find stuff not relevant to xbox

[balmy ingot]

And the PC textures work on XBox? Even BC7 ones?

[storm bay]

loads of folders you can leave out, source, fomod and all sorts

[fluid sand]

Agreed, but my point was just that nexus files can be downloaded and uploaded if they are packed in a bsa. I wouldn’t recommend it.

[fluid sand]

Yes, work fine. BC7 most common format used.

[grizzled torrent]

It requires this header, man

[storm bay]

PC textures work fine on xbox, for some reason they dont always on fallout, apparently the MA of maxwells world had thsis problem

[grizzled torrent]

BC7 isn't read by Xbox. It's on the official blog

Xbox uncompresses it.

I had this conversation the other night. Do a search of this channel

[fluid sand]

Well it’s the most common texture format I see, and what most uncompressed formats are compressed into. And my ports work fine 🤷‍♂️

[grizzled torrent]

#modding-general message

I really wish Beth had a quote bot.

Xbox =/= PC They're trying to make it so but it isn't.

[fluid sand]

I’m not sure what to say. I upload BC7 textures all the time. They look absolutely fine

[grizzled torrent]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy ingot]

Which model of XBox do you test them on?

[storm bay]

I swear my cathedral optimizer is set to BC7 and Ive not had any problems, if i should be using something else Im all for it, especially if its going to improve performance and/or file size

[grizzled torrent]

Cathedral optimizer is for PC though.

[fluid sand]

Series X

[storm bay]

its what I use to downsize for xbox, i have ready made scripts

3 xbox`s, Series S, X and an old One S

[grizzled torrent]

Why not just use texconv and let the CK do the rest?

[earnest bloom]

It's how we learned. Most likely

[storm bay]

it works, doesnt cause any problems and I`m happy with it, some people prefer PG tips over Tetleys

[earnest bloom]

I also only ever use archive.exe to pack bsas and CAO for converting textures myself.

[grizzled torrent]

Unless Cathedral is customizable and you can specify like you can with FO4's elric app? It's been a while since I used Cathedral. It didn't work for what I needed it at the time.

[balmy ingot]

We seems to be living in parallel universes, but okay, if it works for you.

[storm bay]

I used CAO to get veydogolt landscapes onto xbox, it was a godsend

[earnest bloom]

It's got settings if that's what you mean. Can either downscale by ratio or by specifics. Ie. Ratio of 2 cuts things in half. 1k to 512. 2k to 1k, etc. Or you can specify 1024 x 1024 res or what have you that way as well.

[grizzled torrent]

But can you specify BC or DTX?

[storm bay]

cant remeber all the options but I think so

[grizzled torrent]

I don't remember that option being there.

[fluid sand]

I only ever use BC so not sure

[earnest bloom]

There is a setting for choosing what BC to use, yes. Not sure about DTX but that's because I'm unfamiliar with it myself. Maybe I can find a screenshot. Im not sure how in depth that setting is.

[storm bay]

Ive bever really "played" with it, just get the job done

[inner roost]

Get r done

[earnest bloom]

I think you're right OLT. I don't believe you can choose what compression settings. Not at my laptop atm. I do recall seeing that BC7 is used by default but having used it so much I can't seem to remember what each tab looks like as it's become a pretty automated process for me lol.

Will double check when I get home later as I'm curious now.

[storm bay]

im so glad weve moved away from wobbajacking, I was alomst thinking of "wobba-jacking" it in ;()

[earnest bloom]

Octagon almost certainly has those options.

[grizzled torrent]

Please do. If it's default, try a different program please. That link above is the official blog. I want you guys to have awesome things.

[earnest bloom]

One sec. Taking a look.

[storm bay]

i use octagon as well, i often do the minimum 512 and maximum 1024 to get smaller sizes

[grizzled torrent]

I'm not worried about the file size. I'm worried about how much memory it's costing the end user.

[fluid sand]

I remember having to create a bespoke profile to change the compression settings, from default BC7 to be able to convert to BC1 but I don’t remember what other options there are.

[storm bay]

thats what I mean, to save Mbs as we are limited on xbox

[earnest bloom]

Whoa. What?

Is there a more focused discussion or thread somewhere about this topic? Looked like a github link above. Wasn't sure about clicking it on mobile atm.

I've been using BC7 forever. Concerning to suddenly discover it may not be a great idea.

[fluid sand]

I use BC1 for facegen as smaller

[storm bay]

Lex just woken up ? ;()

I take it you gave up on those hairstyles cutty ?

[earnest bloom]

There are a bunch in between and also DX settings. ArcaneUniversity has a wiki page that explains what they all mean/how they differ.

I did yes. Lol. I say something stupid?

[fluid sand]

But I generally use BC7, as most things are already in BC7 on nexus (SE at least, LE usually not)

If it’s already in BC7 I don’t tend to touch it.

[earnest bloom]

I see now. The discussion is up there. Doh.

[storm bay]

would be hilarious to find out weve all been doing it wrong for years and should have been doing it another way, a better way, I would cry lol

[grizzled torrent]

The official blog where this is mentioned was updated Dec 15, 2017

#modding-general message

[fluid sand]

It’s talking about an Xbox One, which I never had, but on a One S they certainly worked fine

[barren wadi]

Uh dude I don’t know what to tell you but BC7 is just fine

You can convert a texture to it or from it if you want. It’s the same.

[grizzled torrent]

One S is the same as One except the power. The architecture is the same.

[barren wadi]

Meshes have issues because of weirdness with editor markers being displayed. Other than that, an asset is an asset.

[atomic crescent]

Any luck with the website yet @grizzled torrent ?

[grizzled torrent]

I've been in chats all night. I am about to go to bed. It's 640 am

[atomic crescent]

Gosh go to bed! Have a good sleep 😊

[fluid sand]

Then I think I’ll trust my experience of using hundreds of ports with BC7 textures over the blog 🙂

Night!

[earnest bloom]

Catch ya later. Get some sleep. 👍

[storm bay]

night

[grizzled torrent]

I know which ones not to download then. 🙂 Have a good one.

[earnest bloom]

Lol

[storm bay]

ooh suits you mam ooh suits you ! ;()

[green ether]

The website needs help! It's showing mod that are not mine in the my mods selection, and I can't get to new uploads.

[atomic crescent]

I haven’t been able to load the mods page since yesterday

[barren wadi]

This “BC7 textures dont work” is the funniest thing I’ve heard in 2022

[gentle owl]

she is confused by the original xbox specs,she plays on pc so mightnt know there are lots of different xboxes with different specs

[barren wadi]

I tried to play catch-up on the discussion but discords search feature leaves a lot to be desired.

[gentle owl]

she is quoting from a very old articule even the direct x is out of date on it

[grizzled torrent]

here's the updated article: https://walbourn.github.io/directx-and-uwp-on-xbox-series-x-s/

[gentle owl]

i thought you went to bed,this can wait untill you wake up (although i dont want it to become a wall of text)

[grizzled torrent]

Alaan, have I ever been rude to you? What was that about?

[grizzled torrent]

I play FO4 on Xbox One. I played 1500+ hours on Xbox One OG. I bought a PC to help with load orders after PC players left the forums.

[gentle owl]

i dont think bc7 works on the og xbox one but i think it worked with the next version onwards (from what i rember it was a selling point)

[grizzled torrent]

That's fine, but all we have to go on are those articles from the senior developer. Everything else requires the XDK, which has a confidentiality agreement, and so we wouldn't be able to talk about it publicly. Why is it not safer to just use something else and let the Xbox scale like it is supposed to instead of using something that specifically says "not supported"?

I can't play Skyrim on Series X. It is very frustrating. And downtown Boston when you've got too much going on is awful for players on the last gen consoles. Why wouldn't a mod author want to make sure their player base is having fun?

What's the point of mod creation if not for fun?

[gentle owl]

bc7 is supported,on the articule it is for the og xbox that is using 10.0 (i think the og was the only one on that,it is currently 10.1),what happens when you try and run skyrim on series x,for last gen i was using a s it did lag a bit if i modded it too much but on series x it runs great in downtown,are you using mods on series x skyrim

what are your xbox settings

[barren wadi]

Anyone know why we can’t see our own mod list on the website right now?

[gentle owl]

beth knows about it there is a post in modding news

[barren wadi]

Thanks.

[real sphinx]

A discussion on illegally circumventing mod uploads has been removed. No further discussion will be tolerated.

Thank you to those who pointed out to the OP that this was not allowed. Hopefully they take this to heart.

Let's please also remember that Bethesda.net is a platform for sharing mods.

[real sphinx]

"No further discussion will be tolerated" means any attempt to keep the topic going will be deleted.

I'm trying to be lenient here, but if this keeps up I'll instead hand it over to the moderators.

[rich kiln]

While I can see the methods by which it's possible to convert an MCM into a messagebox menu (I do a lot of work with messagebox menus), I feel like the problem is going to be that it still can't handle the various custom edge cases of complex interactions between sections of code or menu bits that fall outside of simple menu designs. And depending on the size of certain menu screens, stuffing them all into messageboxes could make some of it a bit clunky to use - particularly since a messagebox is limited to 10 buttons and you'll likely run into the need to "extend" a particular menu by having there be sections connected by forward/backward buttons. The end result could be a section of menu that is a pain in the ass to navigate. Overall, I'm skeptical that an MCM can be completely converted without still requiring manual code adjustments and then extensive testing to make sure everything is actually working.

Also, regarding the method to open a menu, for those here unaware there is a small caveat to be aware of: If you are using a MagicEffect of any kind, whether it be from a spell, power, enchantment, etc, to open a menu this will cease functioning if global AI processing has been disabled. With that disabled the game will not process any magic effects and thus will not engage the script code necessary to open a menu. This is something I ran into while creating Debug Menu, and is the reason why there is a book backup for triggering the menu as opening a menu via book is not affected by that scenario.

[thorny lark]

Oh yeah I'm skeptical as well. Just saying would be an absolute gamechanger

[rich kiln]

I don't think it would be particularly capable of resulting in saved time, honestly, considering the likely need for manual intervention; a person would probably be better off just creating the menu from scratch.

But, that is just speculation, of course.

[thorny lark]

Well this whole talk was about IF such a tool could exist lol. And if it could then would most certainly save time. Obviously if impossible to streamline the process it's impossible.

[rich kiln]

Oh, well in terms of if such a tool could exist, then it definitely could.

[thorny lark]

"impossible" meaning potentially not yet discovered in this instance. As so many things were once impossible

[chilly prism]

I haven’t done any Skyrim modding but the latest iteration of Skyrim’s MCM is Papyrus?

[rich kiln]

As far as I'm aware, yes.

[covert pelican]

Papyrus, using SKSE functions that don't have vanilla equivalents.

[chilly prism]

That would be tricky to get an xEdit script together to parse those screens.

[covert pelican]

Yep, even for simple menus.

[sudden jay]

How do the menu work for Xbox mods?

[sudden jay]

The universal imperious mod moves menu info to a book that opens first with info and then message box opens over top of it with the options

[covert pelican]

You'd need to construct a series of Message boxes.

MCM menus don't work on XBox because the functions that drive them only exist in SKSE.

(for Skyrim anyway)

[sudden jay]

For the debug menu mod (I use that a lot, great mod btw) you have to enter the commands one character at a time. Is it possible to activate the console menu to enter text, like is done when entering username to name your character?

Every new game I have to type out the command to increase my wings plucked journal stat to unlock contingency power from imperious lol. It’s quite tedious 😅

[rich kiln]

As far as I'm aware, no. Otherwise I'd love to hijack that method of entry.

It's one of those things I wish were able to convince a BGS dev to add to the game to make things easier for mod creation.

[sudden jay]

Yeah we have to get really creative with workarounds, like using magic effects with custom textures to get healthbars working on console

A better menu input system would be superb

[chilly prism]

Wouldn’t you just use HUDFramework?

[sudden jay]

To show healthbars over each enemy head in the world?

[rich kiln]

I'm not aware of what that mod is, but if it involves SKSE features it would not be viable on console.

[chilly prism]

HUDFramework is a custom HUDMenu.swf - it doesn’t need F4SE.

[chilly prism]

Skyrim or FO?

[sudden jay]

Skyrim

[chilly prism]

Ah, I was thinking FO.

[sudden jay]

Aw so fo4 has more toys then we do? 🙃

[storm bay]

there already is a health bar mod for skyrim on xbox, health bar indicators, its simple but does the job

[rich kiln]

FO4 has a more developed engine, so yeah.

Has more papyrus functions, etc.

[chilly prism]

More Papyrus and uses AS3 for the UI.

[storm bay]

the FO4 UI mods are far superior though, Im assuming its because of a new engine

[covert pelican]

In short, yes, FO4 has more toys to play with.

[rich kiln]

If it's using AS3 instead of the Flash Skyrim uses, that would help.

[sudden jay]

Yes this one is what I’m discussed, collabed a bit with fir4wall to make it happen: https://mods.bethesda.net/en/skyrim/mod-detail/4233525

[chilly prism]

Or reversing and recompiling them.

[chilly prism]

There’s a similar mod for FO4

[sudden jay]

Next thing I wanted to try is adding magic effect to dropped weapons on enemy death, that shows custom texture of weapon stats or icon floating above (like Diablo or borderlands lol)

[chilly prism]

That’s interesting

Does Skyrim have a “GetDamage()” for weapons though? Don’t have that in FO4… not without F4SE.

[sudden jay]

I’m not sure; I assumed I would need to do it with custom loot drops. Like run script on enemy death to generate custom weapon from my mod. Then I’ll know the stats, rather than trying to dynamically grab them from weapon. I have not looked into the details yet. Originally I wanted to make a “Diablo3” overhaul, with health bars, legendary item drops, and random rifts. But I don’t have the skills / experience to pull all that off

Was going to base it off custom enchantments for the legendary effects

So the tooltips would be custom textures with the enchantment text. However, I’m not sure if text on textures would work at all

[chilly prism]

Not sure how the HUD UI works on Skyrim but an equivalent on FO4 would be to use Flash textfields to get the information into a box floating above the weapon.

[sudden jay]

No hud ui for skyrim, gotta jury rig it with custom textures on magic effects AFAIK

That’s cool fo4 has the features

[chilly prism]

The MGEF and Healthbars - how are those displayed onscreen?

For the Player

[sudden jay]

We started just using the candlelight spell from Skyrim, and changed the color to match health remaining percentage. Then firew4all added many variants. There is a lot you can do just with the magic effects. I’m not actually sure if he needed to use custom textures for the latest version that has nicer looking actual “health bars”

[storm bay]

health bars above the player and monsters, just a red bar

[sudden jay]

That’s latest version

[chilly prism]

Meant the first person ones for the player character.

The green and purple bars

[sudden jay]

Oh if you mean the base hud elements for health magicka stamina, you can modify those screen elements somewhat, moving them around, they are not modified as part of this mod. Did not try rendering personal health bars using this mechanism. It could be possible though

I think it would be same effect though for 1p and 3p, and the fov setting would affect how it looks significantly

[chilly prism]

Aye, the base HUD elements. I’m curious which mechanic is controlling them - is it Flash/ScaleForm or some other mechanic. If it’s Flash/ScaleForm - you can use Flash Textfields to show the stats of an item.

[sudden jay]

So if you did effect that did personal health bar and made it render in front of player character it would be in their face in 1p view. You could then lower it, but would be hard to place well

[sudden jay]

I’m only aware of the modal message boxes, and the text notifications on top of screen, neither of which would be ideal for use. Maybe other modders would know.

I have not seen anyone achieve custom UI elements outside of the magic effects technique for Skyrim Xbox, aside from reskinning the native hud elements like compass, healthbar, etc.

[chilly prism]

Interesting

[sudden jay]

Btw what do the colors of names mean? I see you as orange and sometimes white, and myself as green

[fossil citrus]

Different roles #server-roles

[chilly prism]

I’m curious now if there’s no way to send the UI messages. HUDFramework on FO4 uses the PipBoyOnHUD Papyrus call to inject custom HUD widgets into the UI. And then it has its own custom messaging service to communicate between Papyrus and HUD element.

[queen kite]

feel free to just talk here, no need to dm

[chilly prism]

With F4SE, you can query item stats. With vanilla Papyrus, you can’t. You’d have to grab the item reference, scan it for keywords, and then calculate the stats based on the keywords and damage/weight/value modifiers.

Once you have the calculations, you fill-in the blanks in the AS3.

[sudden jay]

Yeah that’s I assumed to make this id combine it with custom item generation. So like you have 5% chance to spawn a legendary item drop on killing an enemy. Then I would be setting the target stats of that item, and could in theory render a magic effect “text screen” with those stats. Sounds like it’s “easier” to do on fo4 than Skyrim

[thorny lark]

It's because Xbox players can't use mods at all unless someone ports them. That's like asking why anyone on pc downloads mods instead of just modding the game themselves.

[thorny lark]

CK also doesn't compress the main archive.

Saw that, and a substantial amount of it would be classified as "new work".

Obviously a substantial amount isn't as well.

[rich kiln]

If you didn't create the original mod being ported, then it is not new.

[thorny lark]

All ports are not merely just direct ports like that.

But obviously

[rich kiln]

Either way, I misread their question.

[thorny lark]

Or rather I should say. All Xbox mods are not merely directly ported mods.

But if you misread 👍

I do understand your point tho.

Just merely that mods need ported for console players to use them at all. So should be understandable people want them ported. Not the same thing as someone being mad they only on one site, as anyone who can access the site can use the mod on PC

[covert pelican]

Is there some specific definition you're using for "mods need ported"? Cause in the case of uploading my own stuff, I've never had to do anything special to either the .esp or the .bsa outside of editing meshes with editor markers to hide them. It's always a simple matter of once the PC copy is uploaded, going back into the menu to upload the XBox copy. All in the same CK session.

[narrow vale]

is it possible to mod fallout 3? asking because if so i want to install a mod that lets me teleport to locations from anywhere

[daring fossil]

Depends entirely on your platform. PC - of course, XB/PS - no

[jagged inlet]

Hi Bethesda, I've been translating mods for your games for years. Now that I've heard about the latest rules on porting mods onto bethesda.net, I wonder how should I handle translated mods. Would I be allowed to simply upload the translated.esp and.esm of a given mod, without uploading any asset? Would I still require any permission? In order not to impact the load order of any user, would a "eslified".esp file count towards the number of loaded plugins on Xbox?

[daring fossil]

• I can answer for them - Nothing has been changed yet, they're only preparing it.
  If the new proposal gets made into the rules of the platform yes, you need permission for new uploads of translations, for old uploads there's no change retroactively. A translation esp needs permission the same as any other mod. The original mod author would need to post on the mod page somewhere that your translation has permission to be uploaded.

As far as I understand, esl files still count on the XB, only on PC they can skip the load order spot.

[jagged inlet]

I'll then wait. Thank you! Will keep an eye on this page

[thorny lark]

Are you saying console users can download mods from another source? Cuz If not I think the statement "mods need ported for console players to use them" is pretty self explanatory

[narrow vale]

Ok thx for telling me, im playing on pc so its very useful

[thorny lark]

Bet I know the reason.

[daring fossil]

If you got the Epic version, it can also be modded

[atomic crescent]

I’m still having trouble loading the mod page on the website, I know it was made an announcement that it was being looked into, but it’s not happening for everyone.
Has anyone found a fix for it themselves?
I’ve rebooted my router, cleared cache & cookies, unblocked pop ups but still can’t get the mod page to load.

[pliant bluff]

Nope we just have to wait till it’s fixed

[atomic crescent]

No worries, thank you 😊

[gloomy leaf]

Yes BC7 format works on Xbox in that you can see the texture just fine. The problem is that it doesn't compress like Xbox compatible texture formats and it doesn't render as efficiently. So you're using up unnecessary space that is precious to Xbox users and decreasing the texture performance. If you want to make the experience of Xbox players worse by insisting on BC7 textures no one can stop you. But there may be judgement. 😉

[compact tiger]

not you , its bethesda , just have to wait, make a ticket for they get fast reaction

[jagged inlet]

Coming back on what I was asking this morning : would translators possibly be allowed to port the full mod, but with translated esp/esm? This is the way I ported translated mods and I obtained permissions for doing so (e.g. lux). If I'll be allowed to port only the .esp/esm, without any asset, this would require downloading the original english mod ported onto bethesda.net. Yet, this would mean that any compatibility patch would have to be modified so that it requires the translated esp (i.e. lux_it.esp) rather than the original one, cause otherwise you'd lose the effect of the translation. Any other translator here wants to share how he handles translated mod onto behtesda.net?

[fluid sand]

I never insisted on them. I don’t even think they’re best.

I just said they worked.

Which they do.

[gloomy leaf]

As long as the original mod author gave you permission to port the entire mod as well as translating and made that permission publicly viewable it you'll be allowed to continue to do so. Authors which only want the esp/esm/esl file translated but don't want the assets ported along with it will mean that the user must be able to get the original mod in addition to your translation. So it depends entirely on what permissions the original author gives you.

[thorny lark]

So what *is * best? ....for xbox

[jagged inlet]

This means that I'll have to modify the translated esp/esm to have a different name, am I right?

In case I can only port the translated plugins

[fluid sand]

Different people seem to have different answers, and lord knows I’m no expert, but BC1 for diffuse and BC5 for normals gives a smaller outcome than BC7 across the board

[gloomy leaf]

The file name needs to stay the same for multiple reasons, but now you mention it I know Bethnet has issues with two mods sharing the same file name. Let me refresh my memory and get back to you

[jagged inlet]

exactly

[gloomy leaf]

If your textures DO NOT include alpha, save the file as DXT1.
If your textures DO include alpha save the file as DXT5.
Normals are almost always DXT5 since they have alphas for the shine values.
Speculars usually are DXT1.
Skin files are BC7

[jagged inlet]

I'd keep the filename as it is, but thtat would conflict for sure with the original one

[rich kiln]

If the translated module file has a different file name then nothing that is a non-vanilla form will be translated as the game treats forms in differently named module files to be distinct. You would find that you have two sets of every custom form from the mod, one translated and one not.

[jagged inlet]

I guess the best way would be to modify bethesda.net to allow the user to download the translated plugins, if he wants to, when he chooses to download a given mod

[gloomy leaf]

It's easy enough for PC users to deal with, I'm not 100% what happens on Xbox, I'm going to go look at my notes

[rich kiln]

I'm curious about why a strings file is not being used.

[thorny lark]

okay, thank you @fluid sand and @gloomy leaf 🙂

[fluid sand]

Skin aside, are there diffuse files where you’d expect to use BC7 over BC1?

[jagged inlet]

exactly, on pc it's pretty easy. On xbox you won't have much choice..

[jagged inlet]

Do you think strings files would work? That could be interesting

[rich kiln]

That's what strings files are for.

[jagged inlet]

How do you get the string file of a given mod/patch through CK?

I recall we used some specific custom made program to do the translation and then save it as .strings

[gloomy leaf]

ok after refreshing my memory on files with the same name downloaded from two different people on Bethnet...basically you're forced to either get permission to port & translate the entire mod or use string files for your translations

and I don't know if you can even upload just string files

[jagged inlet]

I see..thank you both! Is there any way to get in contac with bethesda on this matter? Shall we just wait for them to re-open the modding rules chat?

[jagged inlet]

as far as what I see, you need to get a .esp to upload, even a dummy one for texture/meshes mods

[gloomy leaf]

yes..but it would need to have the same mod name

[jagged inlet]

the same name as the .bsa you create

[gloomy leaf]

yeah and if the bsa names don't match the original mod the original mod doesn't know to use it

[jagged inlet]

I am referring to when you port the full mod

so you either download the original one, or the translated one

[thorny lark]

I was never told what to use for my hair pack ports, so just let the program I was using save them on default settings, which turns out to be BC7. I had no idea I should be doing it differently. oops.

[gloomy leaf]

oh yes, sorry I misunderstood

[jagged inlet]

No bother, thank you for your help 🙂 hope bethesda is thing about it as well

thinkin*

[gloomy leaf]

BC7 is the most popular because it's best for PC. Just not for Xbox

[thorny lark]

The guides/info I was using never specified that, and I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff, so I didn't know. I appreciate you guys educating me. 🙂

[fluid sand]

I am the blind leading the blind. I’d trust anything crayonkit says on the matter over me. When I stated too loads of people told me “just use BC7”.

I just repeat what I’ve heard from others.

[gloomy leaf]

So I'd suggest when you talk to authors about translating their work explain that for technical reasons the users on Bethnet (in-game mod manager users specifically) can't use two different mods with the same mod file name, thus you can't just upload string files or the esp/esm/esl file only you have to port the entire mod for a translation. Offer to port the entire mod to Xbox only and do just the esp/esm/esl file for PC users so that their assets aren't being made available to PC users from the translation mod (since you can't get Xbox mods to PC). That way you address potential concerns the original author might have about porting/translating the full mod.

[thorny lark]

yep, that's what I read. Never saw a thing that specified it was for pc... 😦 Now I know though, so...
Do you think I should redo all the hair packs, then? I mean, I want them to be at their most user friendly, that was the whole point of porting them in the first place.

[gloomy leaf]

I was informed by an Xbox modding expert with even more modding skills, knowledge, and experience than I have in general by a long shot so I definitely trusted it, especially since it was informed by a blog article by the Microsoft dev who worked on that part of the system. 😄

The vast majority of authors have always modded for PC, modding for console is often simply an afterthought of sharing what they meant for PC users. So it's not surprising that most don't know that things might be different on Xbox. It's not the kind of thing that gets covered in tutorials unfortunately because the tutorial creators didn't know it either. Bethesda never told us. The only reason we (mod authors) know at all is thanks to a blog article by a Microsoft dev.

[gloomy leaf]

When we learned this information Creative Clutter was around 300mb at that time and after we converted all our texture files to be Xbox compatible we reduced the overall mod size to around 220mb. Now it's grown to about that size again with new content but at least it's significantly smaller than it would've been otherwise.

[fluid sand]

I wouldn’t bother personally. Your hair packs all work fine and are great.

Test a couple if you like and if it’s reducing the size by a lot then maybe, but I’d leave them otherwise.

You have other things to move on to 🙂

[thorny lark]

And you have no idea how much I appreciate that! I always squeeze that sucker into every LO I do!

[gloomy leaf]

My opinion is that while it's a hassle for the author/porter, the right thing to do is remake the textures so that they're space and performance friendly for Xbox users

[thorny lark]

sound advice. Thank you 🙂

[gloomy leaf]

We did it for well over a hundred textures at that time. It was definitely a hassle. We tried multiple batch conversion apps and none of them worked for us so we had to convert each one manually one at a time. But we consider it well worth it and it only had to be done once thankfully. After that we just always saved our textures in Xbox friendly formats by default.

[thorny lark]

that...makes sense, it's just...well...50+ hair mods now so I'd have my work cut out for me. Not that I won't do it, but like Cutty said, test first and see if it makes a difference....

[gloomy leaf]

Bless Sarinia for that texture conversion effort, it was one of the last things she was able to do before her health prevented her from further modding.

Yup, definitely test first and see what kind of difference you get 😄

and you can always spread the work out over a longer period of time

[fluid sand]

You can go back and try and improve mods at any time. Whereas we have until January to get any new mods up with existing perms 🙂

Man I hope the new changes aren’t as bad a I fear 😦

[gloomy leaf]

This is also a good observation

[thorny lark]

Yes, very good point!

[gloomy leaf]

I also have work I need to get uploaded before the new year so I don't have to re-get permissions 😄

I have permission to use a different set of book textures for Do It Yourshelf that I was planning to upload as an optional file

[thorny lark]

Guess we'd better get to crackin'!

[thorny lark]

nice!

[gloomy leaf]

I actually have several possible book texture options for upload, not sure what I'll get done before the new year though

[thorny lark]

Whatever you do, I can't wait to try them out!

[rich kiln]

They won't be. People just inherently fear changes to the status quo. Once the change arrives and people adjust, it'll be business as usual (minus any porters who have been lying about or otherwise fudging permissions).

[gloomy leaf]

opens up the CK and gets cracking

[fluid sand]

I might agree if they grandfathered perms (those clearly dated obviously) alongside existing mods, but without that? It’s going to hit Xbox hard.

Not that we won’t adapt, but it’s still going to suck.

But moving to a new system going forwards, that can obviously be done. I don’t object to doing more legwork myself as a porter. But there are some perms that just won’t be reobtained. For bundles (which we live on given the 150
limit) it’s going to have an impact.

Still, I remain open minded that BSG have taken feedback on board. Let’s see how it turns out. The commitment to speak to Nexus about having the console specific perms option like Fallout has is definitely good.

[rich kiln]

They already said the change is not retroactive. It's barely going to affect console modding at all. Any porters that quit over it will be replaced and mods will simply continue to be ported as normal.

[fluid sand]

Only retroactive to existing mods. Not to existing perms with regard to their use in future mods. So legitimate perms I have now couldn’t be used in a new bundle in 2023. Perms would have to be reobtained under the new system.

Although hopefully that changes, as that would mitigate the biggest impact while still reducing workload (though likely with a longer taper than immediate impact).

Still, a discussion for Monday.

[thorny lark]

personally id not use bc7 for skin either. but thats just me 🤷

[fluid sand]

What do you use dude?

[thorny lark]

everything stated there minus the bc7 basically

is what i have always used

[thorny lark]

i agree with this personally.

[fluid sand]

But for skin specifically? BC1?

[thorny lark]

depends. diffuse? normal? transparancy? etc

i treat skin like any other texture

[fluid sand]

Diffuse

[thorny lark]

dxt1

[fluid sand]

I am still not very good at all this but trying to learn and get better 🙂

[thorny lark]

if any of us arent. shame on us

everyone no matter how could should always be learning and trying to improve

[thorny lark]

While this is a completely logical stance to take.. and often holds... if I'd listened to those "more knowledgeable than me". I'd have used bc7 I never did.

I got told rather vehemently I must. So general advice I'd give people is

Don't always assume just cuz someone has more experience they are correct. Just don't be unwilling to try things.

Half the things I learn while modding are merely experimentation on my own game.

Probably significantly more than half

If anyone gives me a "better way" though, always worth trying and not just dismissing if never tried before. If doesnt work out for me go back to my method. No harm done. Test for myself.

[gentle owl]

that is for low quality textures,i can understand for xbox always wanting to get lower file size but you have to rember the original artist you are lowering the quality of there work when you use it

[thorny lark]

I don't believe anyone would say any of my ports are low quality. But thank you.

[gentle owl]

im not insulting your ports,but it is used for specfic textures and does lower quality especially if there is alot of detail in the texture

[thorny lark]

^

And as for skin. Tons of my mods have skin. And they look excellent so

[gentle owl]

bc7 is better with alpha and normals but i think overall its the best for file size while maintaing texture quality to the original

[thorny lark]

You can find a whole discussion above on why not to use bc7.

Whether you find merit in it is up to you I suppose.

If you don't want to then don't. I'll never advocate for doing something "because someone says".

[gentle owl]

i already was talking to turtle the other day and dont want to rerun the conversation,i was just telling you dtx 1 does have negitives and one is bad image quality,do you hand draw textures

there is a trade though on xbox and always trying to get size down

[thorny lark]

I don't believe any of mine to be bad image quality comparitively.

Slightly less at best.

And I'll barely give it that.

May it have negatives sure. Does it have less negatives than bc7 yes.

Imo ofc

[gentle owl]

what are the negitives you have found using bc7 vs 1

[fluid sand]

It’s bigger

[thorny lark]

Decreased performance and bigger size

[fluid sand]

Size is king on Xbox

I’ve seen so many ports from MAs who lovingly bring their 4k random object to Xbox and I just think; what a shame. Because nearly no one is going to use it

I’m sure it looks great though

[gentle owl]

i can understand that but you also have to rember your repesenting other artists work and by lowering the quality it doesnt reflect on what they made

[thorny lark]

An while I can't conclusively say this is a factor. Many of the porters above stating they've always used bc7 tell me I must be a miracle worker for what I put in my LO and my game is stable.

[gentle owl]

but i do understand why you would do it

[thorny lark]

But I don't use bc7 like they do so

Can't say that's a factor. Can't say it isn't.

I'm gonna go with my game is more stable and I can do more with it as my win.

Cuz have more space available

[gentle owl]

i dont think have a stable game should be highlighted why wouldnt you

[thorny lark]

What?

Do I think having a more stable game is a positive? Yes? Lol

[fluid sand]

Work that is never going to be appreciated by anyone is useless. I get MAs wanting the best version of their mod on display. But the audience matters. And Xbox limitations on size/number of mods mean it’s just ridiculous to present the same high quality mod you have on PC to an Xbox audience and expect the reception to be the same.