#elder-scrolls-general-chat | Bethesda Game Studios | Page 54

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 2:19 PM

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You aren't showing squat. You're raising numbers on a spreadsheet and not showing anything

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Skyrim activtely requires you to engage in the activity

spare anchor Sep 12, 2021, 2:21 PM

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frogsquint

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Hey, be nice

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 2:21 PM

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No, i can't, because that's how i game. When i train in a game, i expect to do something. When i go to the Adventurer's guilt to train with Rakeesh, i expect to FIGHT him

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I don't expect a lazy fade to black and a number increase

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And that's what im saying.

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No, i want applicatopn requirements

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I don't want some lazy number check on a character sheet. I want to be given something to do that puts that number into practice

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I want a practical, real test

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And i still don't agree. Because those skill requirements are artificial, clunky, and ultimately restrictive

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What if I've got a rich, sneaky son of a crime boss who wants to take over the mages guild by relying on clever enchanted items to fake magical skill?

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Sorry, can't do that character hecause the spreadsheet says so

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It's basically the whole schtick of one of the current mage organizations. Can't remember if its the College of Whispers or tue Synod, but one of them basicslly fakes power through artifacts.

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Im not talking modified here.

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Im talking 'sneaking a ring of Fireball into your Fireball test'

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Because no NPC is going to know your Skill Level. That's an arbitrary number which, in all honesty, shouldn't do much of anything.

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On Use enchantments are very much a part of the setting

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Because, it doesn't make any sense

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Guard Reactions are jarring and intrusive as it is. How does sone random guard know im sneaky? The whole POINT of being a thief is to bot be noticed as a thief

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The idea of omnicient NPCs who can intuit everything about yoh and your abilities is just terrible

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Neither do i. I just think Morrowind style requiremets are a terrible way to go about it

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Active challenges with conditions are vastly superipr

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Hardly. You just have to be clever about it.

Like, 'Complete X puzzle in 5:00 without drinking potions'. Where competion requires the use of particular spells. The time limit and the intended spells serve to gate Magicka requirements, and the lack of potions means you have to be able to cast spells at the intended level consistently with minimal down time to pass.

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But this also leaves enough open that a crafty or sneaky player may find some way to cheat the exam. And they shouldn't be prevented from doing so, and in fact should be engaged in it.

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Having the necessary spells, and the Perks to efficiently execute the course in the alloted time.

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You could be highly proficient and skilled. Or you could just have a huge pool of magicka to rely on to brute force it. Or you could sak in magical tools to fake it.

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Sure, I'd usually rather be that character too. But that not how any world actually works.

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People are going to find different solutions, approaches, and even ways to cheat a test, and they shouldn't be strictly locked out of those. Because that's not how tests work

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No, its not cheating.

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Look at the Kobayashi Maru test in Star Trek. The test serves a specific purpose, to present officers with a no-win situation.

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There are many different reactions to the test, from resignation to anger to resolute determination. Some officers try diplomacy, some try agression, some try subterfuge

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Its the SAME test, but different officers approach it in different ways. Kirk even gets sneaky and manages to change the parameters so he CAN win, because he refuses to accept no-win scenarios.

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Presenting checks which only have ONE means forward isn't engaging. Its not a platform for character identities, or worldbuilding, or interaction.

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Brute force is a skill

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In the context of how RPGs handle things, it is. But that's getting into abstracts which is a whole other discussion.

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My point is, Morrowind numerical skill gating is too limited. It doesn't allow for creative or unique characters, or clever ideas and worldbuilding. It imposes a strict, numerical value to being a Mage, and prevents you from exploring Mages.

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Its robotic and artificial, nkt natural and integrated into the world.

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Becsuse they can. That doesn't mean it should be EASY

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But flat out prohibiting them is an artificial, unimmersive roadblock

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In the game, it SHOULD be allowed. But it should be difficult

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Agreed. And that punishment, or at least failure, needs tk be there

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If your Sneak isn't good enough to smuggle your Enchanted jtems into test, and you can't complete it in time, you should fail.

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Worse, if yoh get CAUGHT cheating, you should be demoted and get an increase on those Sneak checks moving forwars

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Because if you get caugbt, they're going to check you more closely next time. So you need to be even sneakier.

And none. If you cheat and pass, you pass. But whose to say what the next test will be, and how you're going tk cheat that.

The thing about cheating is, it starts off easy, but by the end can be even harder than just doing the work properly.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:08 PM

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The difficulty of the sneak checks goes up because they're watching you.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:10 PM

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Depending on the specifics of the test, you could fit some in.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:11 PM

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Well... you can have the chance of being caught (based on stealth/awareness, and whether there are any ways to hide useful items), and being caught cheating is a fail in most cases.

Some tests might not have it as a fail if the idea is to test your competency and flexibility, and how well prepared you are. Hell, some "mage" tests might even allow for murdering the test subject to death with a weapon rather than "wasting" magicka on them, because it's a wise husbanding of resources.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:12 PM

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Bear in mind, of course, that when it comes to design philosophy, i think these games are best when they present you with a goal, and tools, and just let you find a solition. So long as the goal is completed, thats all that matters.

Adding in some conditions tk twist the formula or make things interesting is fine, but when you start presenting situations which can only ever be completed in a single way, you're giving up the biggest strength of these sorts of games

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The consequence could be having the lie run away with its self

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:14 PM

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For a conjuration exam - summon me this creature that you can only learn the summon spell from this tablet; and the base cost is 300 magicka - it could be completed in several ways. Get your magicka to 300. Learn a perk to halve - or even quarter - the cost. Wear enough + magicka or reduce cost items to get the cost down to castable.

None of these are exactly cheating.

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"Pay the examiner 3000 gold to sign to say you've done it" would be.

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So would using charm spells to get them to sign off without you actually doing the test.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:16 PM

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And the latter could come back to bite you, if you suddenly find yourself on your last test with a Dremora who can't be bribed.

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The Charm spells could also be Assault, if he remembers it

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Which opens up a whole other avenue for consequences

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Ultimately, every situation you present should make the player think 'How do i approach this' in some capacity. Ideally, you wakt them to think 'How does my character approach this'

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:26 PM

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One thing I would like to see : Not being able to rise to the leadership of a guild after about 5 adventures, one assassination, and about 2 weeks of dungeoneering and travel.

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I'd settle for not becoming leader. But I was more referring to the perennial arc that seems to happen in all the ES games.

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Maybe you can rise to Archmage if you can demonstrate Mastery of all the Schools, plus Enchanting, and there's a vacancy. But it needs to be more than just "whooops, someone killed the Archmage and you've done a short series of quests whilst demonstrating the ability to charm your way past the gate guard, and refused to cast the spell required for the introductory class...

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:29 PM

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I think you should be able to become the leader. But i also think there is room for some really engaging mechanics for being a faction leader

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That said, i don't think it should be a natural product of interactinf with that factjon. You should have to actively choose to engage with that story.

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If you just want tk go into the Fighters guild, pick up a job, and get paid, you should have that option as well.

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Becoming the Leader is part of a story. But the Faction should be more than just that story

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:44 PM

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Two separate stories?

Join the guild, do the guild quest line, all that jazz.

When you've completed the guild quest line (aside from recurring radiant quests) there could then be a "take over the guild" storyline if you really wanted to go down that route.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:46 PM

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As an example, when you join the Fighters Guild, you start as a Hireling. You're a new hire with no real faith, and not trusted to do big jobs yet.

After 5 jobs, you get brough on as a Rookie. No test needed, but you're now considered competent enough to be trusted with actual work. 5 jobs later, you get your first test: defeat a Merc in single combat to prove you're capable of handling tougher challenges. Complete it and you are awarded the rank of Merc.

5 quests later, you get the option to apply for a Brother position. This is entirely elective. You can stay a Merc and jjst get radiant quests to make cash, or you can 'Go Career'. If you do, you uave to get convince a current Brother to sponsor you, and then pass a challenge to show you're capable of tougher contracts.

Once you acheive the rank of Brother, the Story Quests open up for you. This allows you to do more than work for the Guild, and become an active member of its internal workings. As you progress up the ranks, its story unfolds. The goal bere is to focus on building relationships as well as skills, so when the end comes the leadership feels more earned.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:46 PM

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As for how to feel like a leader and still have it be fun... well, that's going to depend on the guild, but it could involve you setting the broad direction for the guild and leaving fine details in the hands of your underlings whilst you go on "research" missions with some of the juniors from the guild (named followers) - these could parallel available missions from the "just join the guild" plotline, but you get the choice of quests rather than being given a random one?

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:46 PM

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Or, you can stay a Merc and just pick up contracts for work.

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The reason i say that Leadership should still be a reward at the end of the story is because there is a lot of gameplay potential in that role. Sending Guild members out on contracts, decorating the Guild halls, social quests to secure new patrons and contracts for your underlings.

There's a lot of engagement and flavour for the leadership position that hasn't been tapped. But which Fallout 4 starts to poke around with

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:48 PM

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So the main guild storyline leads to you becoming a "brother" in Lachdonin's example.
After that there's maybe a different "become leader" storyline worked in there that's more politics than guild business.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:49 PM

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Yeah

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Which in turn allows you to open up a 'Settlement Like' system

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That gets into some awkward storytelling options, but it could be done.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:50 PM

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So... don't play the storyline you don't want to do?

Like if you don't want to do the thief guild questline don't do it.

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It's a separate storyline to become leader in that case, not an extension of the guild storyline.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:51 PM

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Could be as simple as having the 2nd say something like "Well, if you don't want it, we'll figure something out ill talk to the other Generals and one of us will habe to step up".

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And just, yoh know... ndver actually resolving it

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:51 PM

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It'd be like having the College in Skyrim have the option to make Tofdir Archmage. Easy enough fix.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:51 PM

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I want the OPTION.

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I almost never choose that option, but it should be there

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Yeah, i think that's doable. Again, could be as simple as the 2nd in line saying "Ill take over until we find someone better"

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:53 PM

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You might lose out on a little content that's basically "go get the guild a patron" - or the quest might be written so there are two starts and two finishes, and you're still doing the same quests, just that you can do it as the leader or on the orders of the leader.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:53 PM

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Which also leaves room for you to come back later and take the leadership if you decide

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As much as i hate oblivion, i can see Orrin being like "Oh thank Azura, if i had to go to one more court party to try and smooze with Nobles, i was going to kill someone".

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:54 PM

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"Guild Master, we one of the Jarls to sponsor our trade route. Can you go and talk to them and see who is willing to sponsor us?"
or
"Brother XXX. Go to Jarl Balgruf, and take him this letter. if he has any questions about sponsoring us, answer them as best you can."

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:55 PM

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Nah, no hard restrictions like that. Its like Fast Travel, imposing restrictions for the sake of them isn't something i like.

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If someone wants to just play the game, they can play the game.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:56 PM

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Not necessarily.
You could be Thief Guild and Dark Brotherhood leader at the same time.

Hell, you could probably combine either with a legitimate guild.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:56 PM

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No, it doesn't. But not everyone roleplays.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 3:57 PM

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Because some people are playing it more in the lines of "assassination simulator 2011"

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Or they're completionist, and want to do everything on the same character rather than restarting and having to do the boring leg work and main quest to get re-established so they can do a different guild storyline.

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And I don't see why becoming Listener for the DB should necessarily cut you out of leading another guild.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 3:59 PM

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To an extent, sure. But blocking out totally unrelated options just because isn't something i support

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Picking the Stormcloaks or the Imperials is one thing

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But its not like the College and Companions are at war

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:00 PM

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No, but it's secret.

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No one should know you're a member - or the leader - unless they're also in there.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:01 PM

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Yeah, membership in the Brotherhood or Thieves Guild isn't exactly going to be known

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:01 PM

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Imagine how stupid it would be to be blocked from taking leadership of the College because you're also leading a group that no-one knows you're a member of.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:01 PM

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Look at all the Comma Tong members in Morrowind's Fighters Guild

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:02 PM

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morrowinds fighters guild will actually set you against members of the thieves guild at some points

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so if youre thieves guild as well, you might get expelled if you do that quest

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i quite like that actually

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:02 PM

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Perhaps there are consequences to trying to run both, since you've not really got enough time to do both; but that's a gameplay consequence that could stop you doing both effectively, rather than being a hard coded, arbitrary limit.

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:03 PM

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reef hedge so if youre thieves guild as well, you might get expelled if you do that quest

this is good because its not just: "youre thieves guild so you cant join the fighters guild"

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but youve actually got to juggle your priorities or try and find a way back into the thieves guild after

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:04 PM

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What might be interesting would be that as leader of both thieves and fighters guilds, you'd know which merchants have contracts with the fighters, so you could direct your thieves to other targets.... thus persuading them that they should either pay the thieves protection money, or hire your fighters as mercenary guards.

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Maybe stage some incidents where the fighters "disturb" thieves in the action, and you can "recommend" help. 😄

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:06 PM

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would be an interesting dynamic

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eh if youre in charge you get to decide 😉

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:06 PM

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That's the best of it. As far as the fighters are concerned, it's entirely legitimate.

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:07 PM

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i like the idea that being part of one guild should make it more difficult to be a part of another, i dont think it should ever be a solid block though

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:07 PM

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Agreed

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Soft caps, nkt hard capd

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:07 PM

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Think mafia boss who has his hooks into a legitimate security firm, and can recommend them jobs, and knows who has hired them.

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:08 PM

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slowly corrupting the fighters guild sounds like an amazing thing to roleplay

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:09 PM

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Why is it believable that being leader of a secret organisation (the Brotherhood, the Thieves' Guild) would stop you leading a legitimate one?

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:09 PM

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Or that being the leader of multuple legitimate organizations is impossible?

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:10 PM

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That is different, and can be handled by soft interactions,

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:10 PM

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i agree that there should be conflict, but that shouldnt be a hard cap

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:11 PM

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Yeah. Create that conflict, and let players see what they can manage

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They screw it up

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:11 PM

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^^

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:11 PM

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Then let them.

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If they manage to get two guilds crippled by mismanaging them, then that's their problem.

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:12 PM

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screwing up a conflict should absolutely have consequences

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there should be ways to not screw up though

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:13 PM

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reef hedge there should be ways to not screw up though

Like just saying no to conflicting contracts.

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:13 PM

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If you screw up, you could lose the services of the guilds you've affected.

No trainers.

For the mages, no guaranteed access to spells any more, just whatever happens to turn up in vendors or as loot.

For the fighters, perhaps that means that merchants don't have guards any more, or prices go up because they can't hire at guild rates, but have to negotiate themselves.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:14 PM

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Yeah

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:14 PM

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If you manage to kill the thieves guild, perhaps there aren't any fences any more.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:14 PM

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You then need to put in even MORE work to try and repair the damage you've done.

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Or, yes. If you really, REALY screw up, you should be kicked out and unable to rejoin

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Sorta like that murder thing, and only getting one second chance

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:15 PM

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If you screw up that badly, you might effectively kill the guild in the city - or even province.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:15 PM

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Which is, in its self, a fun gameplay option

reef hedge Sep 12, 2021, 4:15 PM

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realistically though what were describing is probably pretty hard to implement into the game

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as cool as it would be

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:16 PM

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Depends on othe systems

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:16 PM

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Now, if it's the Brotherhood, you might not mind - but you've probably done it deliberately (like going to the Penitatus Oculatus over the Brotherhood) if you've done that. 😄

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:17 PM

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If you have the Trade and Economy system ive talked about before, a lot of this could be integrated into it

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:19 PM

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I saw a mod that basically had any loot you sell get redistributed to members of the same factions as the vendors belong to.

So if you sell ebony armour and weapons to the Imperial aligned smiths, named (and even some not-named) Imperials might be wearing it next time you meet them. It goes for unique items too apparently.

Just try not to sell to anyone with bandit sympathies, or some of the bandit dungeons could get a lot harder...

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 4:19 PM

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Yeeah. And a lot of the management side of it already exists in Fallout 4

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So, all of this should definitely be doable

last vessel Sep 12, 2021, 4:22 PM

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I didn't get the mod in the end because I didn't want to have to go to the effort of identifying what factions everyone belongs to, and unfortunately I don't think I saved it.

Let me just have a poke at Nexus

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Damn it. It was this mod, but for SSE. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/101588?tab=description

Nexus Mods :: Skyrim

Faction Economy - LE

Adds a chance for merchants to pass the items you sell them to good and evil factions. Sell items, and see them equipped on NPCs!

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But it doesn't seem to be up for SSE anymore. Instead there's a "lead your faction" mod has taken its place.

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( https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/32997 )
But it doesn't look like it does any of what it used to do.

Nexus Mods :: Skyrim Special Edition

Faction Warfare

Adds dynamic warfare to Skyrim. Factions wage war with one another, and you can choose to lead one or more Factions. Lead a Faction to summon its troops. Equip almost any NPC through the Faction Armor

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Oh wait. Faction Economy is hiding in the old files version of the SSE mod I linked there. @dim reef So you could get it from there and try it out.

limpid zealot Sep 12, 2021, 5:13 PM

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For those who do wind up having their characters assuming the leadership of all possible guilds/factions, I keep wishing Bethesda would let the political leaders in the game see that as a threat to their power -- I mean, who the heck is this rando who, within the span of a few months, has somehow taken control of all the non-governmental organizations? I'd love to see Bethesda do something with the storytelling and gameplay opportunities in that situation.

weak sapphire Sep 12, 2021, 5:15 PM

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That could also be fun.

At the same time, you have to be careful, because... well, ive said my piece abouf History changing events and alternate endings severak times recently, no need to drag that horse out and beat it again

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 1:45 AM

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last vessel As for how to feel like a leader and still have it be fun... well, that's going...

Settlement mode with some broader features could be a great way for that. Perhaps high rank or becoming leader unlocks things like guild versions of buildables, special buildings, faction settlers? With gameplay effects.

If they make it so buildable objects and other aspects of settlements were dynamic they could be made to match a faction("claim it for Fighter's Guild"). Settlers could become low rank Fighter's Guild members, maybe some kind of ways to get higher rank members. In this way things could become more interesting than simple dice rolls to determine if a settlement defense was successful(if the players didn't defend manually), a well defended settlement could have a 100% chance of defending a bandit attack. Maybe buildings can level up like in TES Blades, maybe you can level more if you advanced in a guild a lot?

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 1:47 AM

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Did you ever see LC Build Your Own Noble House?

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Start with a shed, and gradually build up to a manor house with guards and a walled mini-village. And all without a settlement framework to base it off of - instead using something based off of Hearthfire.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 1:51 AM

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Plus it opens the door for more things. What if there were unique characters, like not full followers/companions but with some backstory and maybe quests, where you can recruit them to your settlements &/or factions? They could have affinity or dislike for some factions or for being a settler in an unallied settlement. One example could be M'Aiq, though I'd make him the hardesr to to recruit one.

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That looks super cool and top priority mod for me next time I'm on Skyrim

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 1:53 AM

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One idea that might be interesting would be to be able to add your new HQ as a stop for whatever the traders are in the next game, so that their routes change to take into account the new opportunity.

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Or even to sponsor a new trader based out of your HQ.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 1:54 AM

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Exactly. If they have a dynamic building system like Sim Settlements, a plot for that would make a lot of sense. Plus traders/mercantile, healer, training, homes, fortifications, etc

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 1:55 AM

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I'll admit I've not got around to building the thing in any playthroughs since adding LOTD, because I don't need the "free" house as much as I used to. 😄

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 1:57 AM

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It just would be a huge benefit for the RP aspect, if you were Archmage you could convert a town into Mages Guild to get it looking cool like Oblivion's Arcane University, with mages living in it. Plus another thing to work on and another rabbithole to dive into for the game

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If they had like 100 unique people, you could handpick people for your town

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 1:59 AM

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If it was an exclusive, you could rebuild the same location, but for whichever one of the guilds/factions you wanted to support. Obviously just the overt ones - the Brotherhood and Thieves probably shouldn't be advertising they've taken over the town. 😛

Same general frame work, but you can get very different looks with mage towers rather than guard towers. Or an Imperial / local faction aesthetic if you go that route.

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The unique people could be a bit much, but certainly being able to choose between two or three people for key positions would work well.

Who do you want as your bard, your inkeeper, your smith, your court mage...

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:01 AM

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With the major engine upgrades perhaps we can have a lot more people in our towns and build up a lot more without impact to performance or stability. Perhaps settlement defense could be more epic than Skyrim civil war battles.

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There's probably some lore friendly routes for that. Dark Brotherhood could have a shady noble house connected to them, same for theives guild. Some part of them that's public facing.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:03 AM

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Mmm-hm.
I was thinking the 100 unique people might just be a bit overwhelming to interview in game, that's all.

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And... sure, to take Skyrim's example, I suppose taking an estate over for the BlackBriars would be sufficient cover for the Thieves.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:04 AM

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The unique people could be a bit much, but certainly being able to choose between two or three people for key positions would work well.

Who do you want as your bard, your inkeeper, your smith, your court mage...
Sim Settlements 2 does it, with about 50 of them.

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They'd be all out in the world. Or some may just show up at some point, based on different triggers. Like your settlements building up enough or quest related events or player level or guild progress

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:05 AM

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Then again, if they turn up gradually it might be less overwhelming.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:05 AM

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Then you may have to do a quest, or chat a bit or maybe they cool to just join up

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:05 AM

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You want a bard, you go to talk to the bards' college, and the leader rounds you up two or three candidates.

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(After you've impressed him enough, by doing a thing, or fetching a thing, or rescuing his minions...)

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:07 AM

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Yeah guild people or innkeepers or bartenders could give leads to find them. SS2 has a specific NPC for that.

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Perhaps even some guild buddies, there always seemed to be a fair few likable NPCs at each guild in Oblivion

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:08 AM

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For a smith you might have an established smith with a couple of apprentices, only one of whom can really take over as journeyman at the master's forge - but both are fully skilled and qualified, and one could set up on their own, if only they had a sponsor and somewhere without established competition...

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I think it's doable if they work it in properly from the beginning, and especially if they leave the framework accessible for modders.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:09 AM

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Exactly, there's so much potential for story and for mods. I would definitely do some, especially since we have xVA Synth

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Through all of this the towns/cities can feel alive and can be unique every game.

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If we have dynamic building system like Sim Settlements, that will be my primary focus in modding. (to the point of pretty much not buying other games)

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:13 AM

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Even something as simple as the Hearthfire modular building framework would do well for the building system.

A bunch of pieces that all go together so that, say, the East Tower can take on one of X forms, all of which meet up with the adjacent walls; and any internal buildings go on known plots which conveniently have the doors in the same place as each other for a given site. 😛

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That way the roads can be the same in town, and don't really need adjustments between different build variants.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:17 AM

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What Cities Skylines, Civilization etc don't have is that you can't walk around in 1st/3rd person perspective, talk to everyone and see it all up close, nor be able to go do dungeons or explore in between things.

A bunch of pieces that all go together so that, say, the East Tower can take on one of X forms, all of which meet up with the adjacent walls; and any internal buildings go on known plots which conveniently have the doors in the same place as each other for a given site. stuck_out_tongue
I can say for sure that the easiest way is just having buildable "zones" that represent an allocated area for it, in a few various sizes. And then foundation pieces, and then perhaps road pieces for connecting them on a "main street".

And yes a framework like FO4's would be all we need, although if it comes with more depth then that will mean a greater level of resource access, if it's partially game/engine features rather than pure scripted logic. If more of it comes stock, then modders will be able to go further and strive for something like Crusader Kings in TES

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For Bethesda perhaps a foundation that dynamically creates the other things on top of it may be easiest

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:20 AM

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I think they've got the logic between FO4 and Hearthfire to do what needs to be done.
Of course, it could be built on a lot, especially if they can make the navmesh capable of altering on the fly in game when you build something.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:29 AM

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In Fallout 4 it can, albeit to a limited extent & with only so many NPCs. Yeah the lack of static object based navmesh keeps this stuff from being possible on Skyrim, other than in the limited context of EnableParentMarkers & InitiallyDisabled stuff placed in CK. Which is cool but can't be 100% dynamic.

Full settlements and Sim Settlements style mechanics would be something ToddingAround Todd could call "Radiant towns/Radiant cities". For Starfield these sort of features are my main hope, alongside vehicles.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:33 AM

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The static only navmesh is why I was thinking of a system that keeps the doors in the same places. 😄

wide garnet Sep 13, 2021, 2:34 AM

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I hope I’m not interrupting, but I need something either confirmed or debunked:

Dovah are near-immortal unless they are killed, right? I’m asking because I’m having my Dragonborn character be 111 “this coming summer” for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:35 AM

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I think Dragonborn have the same general age issues as their parent race.

Actual Dovah are essentially immortal though from what I understand.

wide garnet Sep 13, 2021, 2:36 AM

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I think that the Dragonborn can “inherit” some “timelessness” from his Dovah herritage, though.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:37 AM

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Not sure. 🤷 It's the impression I'd got.

wide garnet Sep 13, 2021, 2:38 AM

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So the official answer is “unknown”, right?

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:38 AM

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You might do best sticking it in the lore channel and waiting to see if anyone picks it up over the next day or so - they might have something with actual backing and references.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:40 AM

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Yeah generally the lore beards would be there in #elder-scrolls-lore

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:41 AM

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I was thinking it's less likely to get lost in there than in here, where conversations will inevitably converse and push everything out of sight.

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Oh, word of warning Sephiroth - from what I've been told the LC Citadel mod (Locaster's other main build up your noble house type mod) has bad navmesh issues that stretch almost all the way to the nearest town, and catch the edge of Labyrinthian.

Best to avoid that one from what I understand.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:43 AM

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last vessel The static only navmesh is why I was thinking of a system that keeps the doors i...

That's actually another issue still needing to be solved. Right now on FO4 it uses "portals" to link navmesh between disconnected areas(outdoors to interior).

There's scripted workarounds but it only works for player & active follower(s). For settlers being moved to an interior cell settlement they get teleported eventually.

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Uh oh, but I suppose it isn't surprising. They would have had to navmesh it multiple times and rig things to navcuts and enableparents, navmesh is really troublesome even at the best of times

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That's another thing I hope for from the engine upgrades, new navigation system. Along with more than 4 Papyrus threads and more than 64mb script memory limit.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:45 AM

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Build Your Noble House seems remarkably well behaved by comparison, although I did have a guard get stuck in a pond.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:46 AM

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And these are all things that would make the development team's lives way easier too. After trying mod making I get to see how hard some things are and what a challenge it probably was in the development of the game.

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:47 AM

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I'm also hoping that whatever they do for ES VI, they learn from the mistakes in Skyrim with regard to mannequins, and somehow make them completely unable to move so that they don't wander off if the scripts don't all fire immediately on cell load. 😄

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It'd also be nice if you could give them weapons as well as armour and shields, so that they can stand there looking like fierce, armed warriors.
Bonus points if you can make them look wooden/stone/metal or like one of the player races.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:50 AM

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Hopefully there may be another way to do those besides having them be NPCs. A funny but rare bug can result in them walking around

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:51 AM

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last vessel I'm also hoping that whatever they do for ES VI, they learn from the mistakes in...

Script lag can cause that

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:53 AM

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If they're given a unique race (as they have at the moment), but that race is incapable of movement by design rather than being a reskinned clone of a normal race I'd hope it'd do it.

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Or indeed they're "permanently paralysed by default", and not paralysed by script.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:54 AM

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That works too although they still count as an AI thread I believe. Although may not be an issue if Starfield/TES6 support many more concurrently active NPCs

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I'd recommend something like the FO4 display racks, containers with scripting to have it display the items stored

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:55 AM

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If that works, that works.

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It just needs to not wander off and have a party in the basement, that's all.

violet lily Sep 13, 2021, 2:56 AM

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lol y'all are reminding me of the absolute horror show in the mod I built for OG Skyrim

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I had an armor display room, with a mannequin for every armor set

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the movement glitch happened once and I'm pretty sure my neighbors heard me shriek

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:57 AM

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It once took me five minutes to find where one of my mannequins - that was wearing my enchantment/alchemy gear - had wandered off to.

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 2:58 AM

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Would be a funny idea for skyrim dungeon, enemy mannequins hidden among normal ones. Maybe mannequins that move only when you're not looking

violet lily Sep 13, 2021, 2:59 AM

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I hadn't encountered the glitch at all when someone left the first review on my mod about how terrifying it is to have a room a 50 mannequins all turn and look at you

last vessel Sep 13, 2021, 2:59 AM

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Well, if they're paralysed by default NPCs that'd be easier to do. 😄 Just have a script run on the enemy ones that unparalyses them.

cinder idol Sep 13, 2021, 5:44 AM

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cerulean silo Would be a funny idea for skyrim dungeon, enemy mannequins hidden among normal o...

Wasn't that already a thing in Condemned: Criminal Origins?

cerulean silo Sep 13, 2021, 5:46 AM

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Maybe. I don't play Skyrim much.

cinder idol Sep 13, 2021, 5:47 AM

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No, Condemned is a wholly seperate game, Pyrocynical did a really good video on it.

remote epoch Sep 13, 2021, 6:29 AM

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cerulean silo Would be a funny idea for skyrim dungeon, enemy mannequins hidden among normal o...

Prey have that for the alien you fight

spice whale Sep 14, 2021, 3:49 PM

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if there's one thing i want from an elder scrolls movie/show it's the answer on how do you carry them bloody ruddy staves on your back >.< they have straps or something, like guns?

last vessel Sep 14, 2021, 4:10 PM

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One possibility is that there are rings on the staff that you can tie a strap to (doesn't appear to be the case with most ES staves though)
Another is that you use a strap with loops on it that hold to the staff by friction (or self tightening knots that do the same job)

A third, this being a magic setting 😛 is that the staff sticks to you magically as part of the magic of the staff.

Another possibility is that you've got a sling like the ones used to carry a flag on parades, where there's a leather cup at one end that the base of the flagpole/staff sits in, and a buckled/buttoned flap that goes around the shaft further up.

That said it's the same problem with mounting some of the two handed axes and hammers to your back. You need something to attach to the shaft to hold it there, but still make it possible to get it into your hands in a hurry.

spice whale Sep 14, 2021, 4:12 PM

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yeah, in movies theys just carry two-handed weapons in arms. bah, videogames!

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https://steemitimages.com/640x0/http://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/22183121/supreme-undercover-akira-kurosawa-08.jpg

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two travelling Blades, one with Dai-Katana (jk)

last vessel Sep 14, 2021, 4:19 PM

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I have carried a polearm strapped across my back for a distance - using the "flag" method and plenty of padding down my back. It wasn't comfortable, but it was possible, and left my hands free for balance whilst scrambling up steep slopes.
I don't think I could have got it into a combat position quickly if I'd needed to, but that wasn't the point of what I was doing.

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In fact, the pole arm was substituting for a flag.

trim horizon Sep 14, 2021, 5:41 PM

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You're forgetting the idea of magnets holding staves to you like the Buster Sword for Cloud Strife

last vessel Sep 14, 2021, 5:41 PM

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Magnets. Of course.

quartz nimbus Sep 14, 2021, 5:42 PM

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the staves are obviously enchanted to just stay like that

spice whale Sep 15, 2021, 7:52 AM

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gosh i hope TES 6 will let to work for Thalmor. damn human ephems need to learn their place

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 9:12 AM

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spice whale gosh i hope TES 6 will let to work for Thalmor. damn human ephems need to learn ...

Or let you actually do something to stop them. It's a fantasy game where you can murder death kill nearly everyone and besiege entire cities by yourself, let me waltz across the border and leave a trail of bodies to and from the Somerset Isles instead of "Oh, all the important Thalmor are either unkillable with the blessings of the game devs or outside the country. Now with that out of the way, pick Bootlickers or Illiterates for a civil war that's pointless and actually helps your enemies."

spice whale Sep 15, 2021, 9:22 AM

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tis why Valenwood would be just perfect for TES 6 <3 liberate our woodland cousins from their savagery and fight cyrodiilic opressors, yes yes

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 9:26 AM

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Or freeing the kittypusses from their agreement with the knife ears while uppercutting Sloads with Khajiiti Kung Fu in Elsewyr.

spice whale Sep 15, 2021, 9:35 AM

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don't be stupid, be a smartie! come and join Thalmor party!

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 9:35 AM

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Seriously though, wherever's next I want to use some of those arts like Whispering Fang or Rawlith Khaj.

spice whale Sep 15, 2021, 9:36 AM

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yup, would be neet to see more foreign cultures present whenever the game is set

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 9:39 AM

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And for them to be accurate to lore, like you being wanted for the rest of the game if you mess with the plants in Valenwood or Hammerfell Redguards hiring non Redguards to kill undead and guards actively avoiding fighting summoned undead.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 12:50 PM

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Imagine the fun we can have with plant-based alchemy in Valenwood.

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Or having to eat the bodies of the people we kill (Crazy Bosmer)

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:10 PM

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There is a lot of fun i can ikagine in Valenwood...

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IF they play up the fantasy and abandon all the design from ESO

remote epoch Sep 15, 2021, 1:13 PM

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Elder scrolls need more cat

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More pet

quartz nimbus Sep 15, 2021, 1:15 PM

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Extremely correct evaluation

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:16 PM

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Cats don't real in TES

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:16 PM

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Alfiq does not want to be petted. At least not where others can see.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:16 PM

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Tbey are Afliq spies

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:17 PM

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That only works if there are, (or at least were) housecats.

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And of course the sabre cats I've been turning into rugs had better not be assorted Senche spies... 😄

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:18 PM

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All cat are Khajiit spie

quartz nimbus Sep 15, 2021, 1:18 PM

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There is. Small cat

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:20 PM

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last vessel Imagine the fun we can have with plant-based alchemy in Valenwood.

(you mean people discovering what you're doing and being out for your blood?)

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:21 PM

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It would certainly take some reconsideration of the available ingredients, or some clarification as to if it's acceptable to use parts of plants that it wouldn't harm them to take.

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...or if we're limited to bits that have already fallen off.

remote epoch Sep 15, 2021, 1:22 PM

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Wait do khajiit baby look like small cat?

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:22 PM

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weak sapphire All cat are Khajiit spie

So what if spy? Do you tell your cats government secrets while you're rubbing their precious little faces?

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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They might go through your paperwork or eavesdrop on meetings.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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cinder idol So what if spy? Do you tell your cats government secrets while you're rubbing th...

Yes

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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last vessel They might go through your paperwork or eavesdrop on meetings.

Baby thumbless paws can't open locked drawers.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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remote epoch Wait do khajiit baby look like small cat?

It's presumed they're born in a small enough form that they can all be born to Alfiq, and then grow from there.
It is complex

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:24 PM

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cinder idol Baby thumbless paws can't open locked drawers.

Alfiq are almost all mages, and could know lockbreaking spells and telekenesis.

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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last vessel Alfiq are almost all mages, and could know lockbreaking spells and telekenesis.

Give them a collar made from a repurposed Morrowind slave bracer...

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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Or just get a dog instead. 😄 😄

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:26 PM

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Dog are where Lilmothiit went

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All spie

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Everything spie

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:27 PM

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...no. I will not go and get the fox and dog people mods. I do not need them.

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:27 PM

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Wait, was Ashes from Fallout 4 an Alfiq? That would explain how simply telling them to go home works on them, which will never work on a real cat...

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:29 PM

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It is a deep and dangerous rabbit hole.

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:33 PM

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last vessel It is a deep and dangerous rabbit hole.

Very deep and strange. I get the whole realism aspect and not needing to have NPCs tell you "Dogmeat's a guy, trust me I'm an NPC who also knows their name nobody gave it somehow" but beyond that, I don't get giving deer only there for you to shoot for more leather straps for more leather bracers buttholes.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:34 PM

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Besides, it gives you a target point.

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I... accidentally have that?

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I... had that briefly.

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But I got rid of that mod list because it was getting silly and getting in the way of actually playing the game.

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Which reminds me. I should correct my BodySlide settings before restarting the game.

spare anchor Sep 15, 2021, 1:41 PM

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frogsquint

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:41 PM

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Too much? Apologies.

spare anchor Sep 15, 2021, 1:42 PM

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Yes, entirely too much

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:42 PM

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I was going to try to transition that into a broader topic, since fat characters should also exist...

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And that's where you're most likely to need that sort of animimation characteristics.

And hair. Hair with some decent movement would be nice

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:44 PM

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weak sapphire I was going to try to transition that into a broader topic, since fat characters...

True, fat rolls should roll properly on my terrifying abomination characters. I want Heart from Hokuto Shinken, body so thick most attacks can't go through.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:44 PM

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There are plenty of creatures it would apply to as well. Ogres, Ogron, Sload

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:45 PM

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Also more dismemberment. I want to cave in a guys skull with a warhammer and throw bits of his grey matter at his allies.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:45 PM

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So, the same sort of rigging and animation which is used for 'That' had a lot of uses... i just don't think 'That' is particularly useful.

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Thats little more complicated. And we do have some really awesome automated rendering systems on the horizon for that

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But they're pretty processing intensive

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:46 PM

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Sadly. Jigglebones have only really seen use in TF2.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:48 PM

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I remember watching a demo about a procedural material system which could account for impact force and material density ti automatically simulate breakdown and damage

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Super cool system, but running it in the fly in a game? Don't think the processing resources are there yet

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:51 PM

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weak sapphire Super cool system, but running it in the fly in a game? Don't think the processi...

I'm hoping for something like that if I ever manage to make that fantasy game. Stats? No, coverage and materials. Doesn't matter how cool looking that spinning strike was, you hit the top of a plate helmet with a sword, it's not doing anything.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:52 PM

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Well... that depends how hard you hit the helmet, and how relatively strong you are.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 1:52 PM

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Yeah. And we're getting into the actual software potential for stuff like that. But the resources to run it limits it to situational simulatipn right now

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Not gameplay.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:53 PM

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You might affect their balance, you might temporarily "stun" them so that their next attack or block is a bit slow or sloppy.

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Stun is probably a bit too strong a word.

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:54 PM

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last vessel You might affect their balance, you might temporarily "stun" them so that their ...

True, but that metal handle you chose because it looks cool is now vibrating in your hand like the guy's helmet is.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:55 PM

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Sure, but the weapon vibrating a bit is expected when hitting someone armoured anyway, and hopefully damps out between the grip and your gauntlets.
Or the next place you hit. 😄

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 1:56 PM

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Padding is important, and no games seem to think about that.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 1:58 PM

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Well... It would be a nice thing to see in ES VI.
A padding layer (which functions nicely as armour on its own if needed), and an outer armour layer.
Maybe there could be penalties for wearing outer armour without relevant padding. After all, chain isn't comfortable without some padding, and it tends to shift. Let alone when you get up to plate style armours.

cinder idol Sep 15, 2021, 2:00 PM

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Think about how unsneaky you'd be with plate and such not put against a good gambeson that allows you to tie it into place. Also the heat of bare metal against your flesh in a DESERT.

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 2:04 PM

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Or when stood on top of a cold mountain with a bit of a breeze.

weak sapphire Sep 15, 2021, 3:37 PM

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cinder idol Padding is important, and no games seem to think about that.

Padding can be handled easily with certian clothing having protection bonus

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If you wear the proper clothing for a fight, you're going to have a better time of it

weary quiver Sep 15, 2021, 6:05 PM

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i see cat merchants in eso

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best game ever

last vessel Sep 15, 2021, 6:06 PM

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But can I get a statue of Skooma Cat?

spare anchor Sep 15, 2021, 6:40 PM

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I love the Alfiq merchants. They're so cute

quartz nimbus Sep 15, 2021, 6:40 PM

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spare anchor I love the Alfiq merchants. They're so cute

What do you require of Ezabi, fragrant employer?

spare anchor Sep 15, 2021, 6:41 PM

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I also have the raven merchant and banker chilling in my witch cabin

trim horizon Sep 16, 2021, 12:00 AM

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I have a Redguard Rogue. Who uses a Greatsword.
It's hilarious

burnt moss Sep 16, 2021, 7:26 PM

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The game began to slow down, it starts slowly (black screen), saving loads for a long time, before this was not the case. They can't find a solution. help

eager remnant Sep 16, 2021, 7:30 PM

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burnt moss The game began to slow down, it starts slowly (black screen), saving loads for a...

Hi, Vi_eX1701! Which game are you referring to?

burnt moss Sep 16, 2021, 7:34 PM

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eager remnant Hi, Vi_eX1701! Which game are you referring to?

Skyrim se

nimble pond Sep 17, 2021, 4:16 PM

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Whilst talking about Jackie Chan drunken wizardy combat in Skyrim channel, it occurred to me they don't really have any kung fu unarmed combat. I know they got suplexes, but it would be cool if they expanded on unarmed combat in general instead of just left right punch and cinematic finisher. I know some might associate it with Akavir, but it would be pretty sweet to perform various kung fu moves (especially for my sneak thief build) and different unarmed fighting styles in general like in MMA. Further expanding on that, different weapon styles and movements as well based on the currently selected or studied stance for selected weapon types, bows, magic.

magic tundra Sep 17, 2021, 5:04 PM

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there are several martial arts styles associated with the khajiit

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and I have no clue what's that about Methylmethacrylate...

weak sapphire Sep 17, 2021, 5:05 PM

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In a practical fighting sense, most Martial Arts aren't actually that good. They're visually stimulating and showy, but lack a lot of functionality that could see you actually win a fight.

And even those that ARE combat focused are... difficult to replicate in first person.

weak sapphire Sep 17, 2021, 5:26 PM

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I mean, all martial arts are difficult to replicate in First Person, really.

lethal horizon Sep 17, 2021, 5:44 PM

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Question, if i buy a ESO plus sub does i still need to buy the Blackwood DLC? because ESO plus you get all dlc`s right??

weak sapphire Sep 17, 2021, 5:52 PM

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So long as your subscription is active, yes

magic tundra Sep 17, 2021, 5:55 PM

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In all likelyhood, when next year's chapter releases, Blackwood will become a DLC and therefore included in ESO+

fast scroll Sep 17, 2021, 7:46 PM

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Martial arts would probably end up being punching that looks different. Some sort of strike or chop with the appropriate animation. Hopefully differing effects

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There's actually cool things you could do with it, particularly when you put in stats vs. weak enemies. Have a decent chance of knockdown or even paralysis when your skill is high

nimble pond Sep 17, 2021, 8:00 PM

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Well I meant that too, it's not just for the aesthetic and fitting my character roleplay, but some moves having specfic purpose and where they land like how you can stagger and enemy with a shield bash or power attack or disarming for example

wide garnet Sep 17, 2021, 8:42 PM

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I’ve got a few questions for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction. During the meeting with Imshael in Suledin Keep, the Mace of Molag Bal comes to life as a “conduit” for Molag Bal, ordering the Dragonborn to kill Imshael because, and I quote, “this ‘choice spirit’ reminds me too much of my rival Boethiah (did I spell that right?)’. After Imshael is killed, the Mace of Molag Bal is empowered, with Molag declaring, again as I quote, “The Mace of Molag Bal! Restored to its glory of the Second Age! I give its power to the Inquisition. When Corypheus lies broken and bloody at your feet, know that I, the Lord of Domination, will be watching.”

——

My first question is, would Molag Bal order Imshael’s death?

My second question is, what would the Mace’s enchantment be when it was “restored to its glory of the Second Age”?

lethal horizon Sep 17, 2021, 9:30 PM

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is there more then just the helm and shoulders for the skyterror dragonslayer armor?? (ESO)

magic tundra Sep 17, 2021, 9:40 PM

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https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Skyterror_Dragonslayer_Style
no

Online:Skyterror Dragonslayer Style

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there is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Elder_Dragon_Hunter_Style, which looks similar, though

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:38 AM

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wide garnet I’ve got a few questions for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction. During ...

Yes, because Bal's expectation is the Dragonborn's obedience.

Likely just a stronger version of it's normal enchantment; Drain.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:44 AM

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fast scroll Martial arts would probably end up being punching that looks different. Some sor...

More likely, it would simply be special moves and nothing more. Of course, this all depends entirely on the sort of combat mechanics at play... But in general, First Person limits just how flashy you want your combat animations to be. It's a trade off for precision and control.

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And a whorthwhile one, IMO. Arkham style combat may look flashy, but it's ultimately repetitive counters and very little actual thought or engagement.

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 1:53 AM

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It's not all about flashiness.. I didn't even think of that when thinking of unarmed combat. It's like saying they shouldn't have axes because they aren't flashy enough. Nor is it first person only. But while I'm at it, do they even have unarmed-based weapons in Skyrim like they do in Fallout. Again, for my sneak-thief build, maybe a claw to slit throats besides daggers everytime or maybe some kind of warrior fist weapon for a warrior build instead of just a armor fist perk. Like were unarmed weapons ever present in any of the past TES titles or just completely non-existent? Just the generic left right & sometimes cinematic if you know how to trigger them that is.. can't even kick. Barely even notice unarmed combat in the game if at all

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:06 AM

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Oh, don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating for Flashy. I think Arkham's, and in fact most 3rd person action systems, are all style and no substance. I vastly prefer clean, concise and controllable systems over something that looks impressive.

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But more than Jab and Punch, i don't see much functional room for any sort of melee outside of special attacks. Which are their own thing entirely.

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Unless you go full on crappy Twirl and Dance combat, and honestly... I've yet to see a game where that felt engaging, or looked anthing other than dumb as eff

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Ok, that's not ENTIRELY true... God of War looked good...

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:10 AM

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Well like a guy said about arrows hitting the head should be different than in the foot, where a hit lands should have impact, but I suppose it's complicated to implement? It always felt weird to me swinging a sword at any part of the body and doing the same damage.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:10 AM

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It's less complicated to implement, and more complicated to target. Especially in 3rd person

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:11 AM

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But your fist is like a sword or anything else, its a weapon. Woukd be cool if you could enchant your fists or feet

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At least fallout has vats, but that would be weird to have in TES

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:13 AM

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Yeah. I think in that regard Doom is the best model to adopt. It has a pretty wide field of targeting for body parts, which it uses for it's Glory Kills

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:19 AM

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I've been interested in making unarmed combat builds, it's just so stagnant compared to other forms of weaponry where it really could have a lot more potential. And it would be great if you could actually just knock out opponents this way if you choose to do so instead of killing them.
Nor was I too thrilled about the lack of throwing weaponry in Skyrim either.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:24 AM

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Throwing is a separate discussion, but i do think there is room to flesh out Unarmed as it's own thing. Or, rather, 'Hand to Hand', as i think it would most reasonably include Fist weapons in it's approach

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The crux of how that is approached, however, is going to depend on back combat interactions

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:33 AM

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Yea, a guild for it would be nice too. Some monk temple studying various unarmed disicplines like the mages college studies magic

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:39 AM

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I always thought it would be better suited for a brawling system

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But then again... I am generally pretty Anti-Monk archetype

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:39 AM

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I mean I would include brawling in the studies

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I like the variety

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That's also why I'm into the idea of stances for different combat styles with other forms of weaponry

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:44 AM

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The problem is, unless you can make those stances and combat styles have meaningful differences, without compromising the control and precision of the whole system, then their variety is only superficial

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Like weapons in Morrowind. Sure, you have more Weapon Skills, but every Skill does the exact same thing. All you're doing is investing in visuals, not function

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:46 AM

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For my characters (builds and roleplay), I think some variation in visuals is good, but yes they could add more depth to them beyond that

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Like I could be a redguard, but who has adopted the fighting stance of Nordic culture rather than Redguard for my characters background

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 2:48 AM

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I definitely think there are ways to integrate those sorts of ideas, without compromising the overal function of the system

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But, it's almost midnight, and i have to be up in 6 hours. Time to sleep. I'll have to get back to this later

nimble pond Sep 18, 2021, 2:50 AM

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I think the system is fine as it is, just adding branching details to it, but goodnight

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 4:59 AM

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weak sapphire But more than Jab and Punch, i don't see much functional room for any sort of me...

Kicks can knock down opponents or interrupt attacks as the attacker has to modify their footwork to stay standing, that and those could most likely be aimed so you could sweep a leg for a knockdown or kick them square in the chest to knock them back and interrupt attacks.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 11:34 AM

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I have played with the idea of a Kick as an activatable basic Technique alongside Power Attack. I suppose you could include multiple variations of it too.

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Basically, i don't think basic combat should have more than 2 attacks. Thrust and Swing. Clear, controlled attacks with understandable input. No attack patterns, no flashy moves, just clean and precise basic actions.

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Tap for Thrust, Hold for Swing.

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Then you can layer in Techniques, specific activated abilities that suplement your basic actions. Power Attack, Kick, Whirlwind, Uppercut, etc.

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These would be activated using the secondary action inputs, such as the Bumpers on a controller. Tap to use your last Technique, Hold to bring up a Power Wheel and allow you to quickly select another Technique from your loadout

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 11:42 AM

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That might be starting to get a bit close to playing a beat em up. I'm already a bit short on buttons...

magic tundra Sep 18, 2021, 11:46 AM

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I don't have bumpers on my mouse...

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 11:47 AM

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You mean you don't have a mouse with about 50 extra buttons on the side? Shame on you!

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 11:54 AM

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magic tundra I don't have bumpers on my mouse...

No, but you have Tab, Alt, and Number Keys on your keyboard

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While functional on a controller, this sort of psydo-actionbar style of design would be even more versatile on a mouse and keyboard hecause of all the extra input options

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 11:55 AM

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weak sapphire Tap for Thrust, Hold for Swing.

I prefer the Dark Souls method of thrusting being the heavy attack, allowing the feather duster technique of prior ES games to still exist.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 11:56 AM

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cinder idol I prefer the Dark Souls method of thrusting being the heavy attack, allowing the...

That never made any sense to me. A thrust is a quick, precise and controllable attack. You're not trying to impale someone on a tree, you're trying to poke them

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Even with a spear, a thrust is more about keepong your opponent at range and capitalising on minor openings.

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 11:59 AM

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weak sapphire These would be activated using the secondary action inputs, such as the Bumpers...

That sounds super cumbersome honestly. My dad hates the combo system of fighting games so that's out of the question. Maybe something akin to shield badh where you hold one button then use another at the same time? Maybe kicking should be just shield bash's inputs but without a shield.

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 11:59 AM

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weak sapphire These would be activated using the secondary action inputs, such as the Bumpers...

That sounds super cumbersome honestly. My dad hates the combo system of fighting games so that's out of the question. Maybe something akin to shield badh where you hold one button then use another at the same time? Maybe kicking should be just shield bash's inputs but without a shield.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:01 PM

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Oh no, nothing like a Fighting Game combo system

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 12:01 PM

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weak sapphire That never made any sense to me. A thrust is a quick, precise and controllable a...

It depends, with Dark Souls that heavy attack thrust on straight swords really helps convey the impact of the strike even if it's rather quick regardless.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:01 PM

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Mkre like Doom's weapon select

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 12:05 PM

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weak sapphire Mkre like Doom's weapon select

Weapon select via hotwheel was hard to do diagonally previously, it would suck trying to get to the Piercing claw strike while fighting a guy in thick armour only to get annihilated while standing still then accidentally selecting another attack entirely.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:07 PM

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Well, Player precision is something you can't always design for.

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You can minimise it by not allowing too many options, but never eliminate it

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Dragon Age Inquisition for instance had a wheel menu with like, 30 items on it, making each so small you couldn't really do a snap-select outside of the cardinal points.

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 12:10 PM

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weak sapphire Well, Player precision is something you can't always design for.

Not sure about that unless you mean anything with touchscreens, controllers and keyboards are rather precise. 30 is certainly way too much, Outward has a system where you can get 8 quick to deploy hotkeys on a controller but it throttles the mouse and keyboard players and takes up a fair bit of the controls.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:23 PM

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Well, hotkeys would be something else entirely. The Keyboard allows 1 through 10 so easily

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These wheels woul function more like Skyrim's Favourites menu, with an added Use-on-Select function

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So, youd have a basic system where Thrust and Swing are your basic attacks, allowing for clear and precise actions which can highlight differences in Weapons relatively easily.

magic tundra Sep 18, 2021, 12:25 PM

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you think replacing the favorites menu with a wheel is a good idea, especially if you plan to add different moves to it?

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:26 PM

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Absolutely. A 10 slot Wheel (or in this case two of them) would allow for far more finctional implementation of favourites than the Menu does

cinder idol Sep 18, 2021, 12:26 PM

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magic tundra you think replacing the favorites menu with a wheel is a good idea, especially i...

Maybe have both? Favourites menu bogged down the game's flow to a standstill as you have to pick out your weapon, offhand, brand of detergent and such while hotkeys were snappy. Therefore, hotkeys for moves/spells and favourites for consumables and weapons or if things were super good, loadouts. Of course, spells can be put in favourites and weapons can be put in hotkeys as the hotkeys are for things you want to equip quickly.

magic tundra Sep 18, 2021, 12:27 PM

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weak sapphire Absolutely. A 10 slot Wheel (or in this case two of them) would allow for far mo...

okay, and what to do with the stuff beyond 10 that I want to favorite?

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my current character doesn't have that kind of problem, as he only has a hammer, a crossbow, and a pickaxe he uses, but my magic users have quite some stuff in their favorites menu

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:32 PM

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I often have main weapon, bow, arrows, shield, a couple of summons, a couple of shouts, and a few other spells that are useful enough to want on quick select.

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I'm well beyond 10 in most cases.

magic tundra Sep 18, 2021, 12:33 PM

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so am I - and that is before your proposed movement thignies

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:38 PM

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In this example (im going to stick with Controller explanations, since ive found console players strugfle to understand playing on a keyboard...)

You tap L-Bumper to use your quick-Select Technique. You then Hold L-Bumper to slow time and bring up the 10 slot wheel. L-Stick to select Power Attack, which activates on release.

You the step back, Hold R-Bumper (Magic) and select Self Invisibility, casting it on release.

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So, at base, you have 20 'Slots' for Techniques and Spells. PC then has the advantage of the number keys, allowing for a seperste hotkey system on top of that

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:39 PM

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OK, so here you've taken over both the sprint and shout buttons.

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Now, that's not insurmountable - certainly there are other reworkings of the controller buttons

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:40 PM

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Sprint Press L-Stick. Shout is replaced by the Magic wheel entirely

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:40 PM

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L-stick is sneak.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:40 PM

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R-Stick? Whichever one controls movement.

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Sneak is a whole other kettle of fish, and IMO needs a major redesign

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:41 PM

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And replacing the shout (which I usually want to do immediately) with a magic select window isn't necessarily helpful either.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:43 PM

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I mean replacing Shouts entirely

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:43 PM

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But even so. 10 slots each for "techniques" and spells might not be enough - certainly sometimes I've got more than 10 spells favourited because I use them at various points.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:43 PM

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Its already double whats possible in Skyrim with any quick-Select system

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And on PC you're able to access three times as many 'Favourites' options, quicker than Skyrim allows

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:46 PM

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Absolutely. A 10 slot Wheel (or in this case two of them) would allow for far more finctional implementation of favourites than the Menu does

I have far, far more than 10 (or 20) favourites on most characters once I get going. That's the problem here.

magic tundra Sep 18, 2021, 12:47 PM

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and you don't have a system for items yet

last vessel Sep 18, 2021, 12:47 PM

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If you're leaving the normal favourites menu intact, that's OK, but I can easily have more than 10 spells I want "quick" access to.

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Even more so when you take into account "powers" added by mods that take up spell or shout functionality.

weak sapphire Sep 18, 2021, 12:51 PM

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The normal Favourites menu only allows for 10 quick options, and that's only on PC.

The rest are best described as 'Quickish'. Faster than goung into the normal menus, but still not really fast at all.

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As for Items, you have a few options. Al

Attach them to normal wheels, so Equipment in the Left Wheel, Potions in the Right.

You could also put an Alternative select option on either wheel, using the Triggers while the Wheel is active (since your attacks won't trigger while you're picking anyway.

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In the latter example, you could use those triggers to switch to pre-set loadouts, with their own pre-set wheels (similar to Diablo's loadouts) allowing you to have 3 'Ready to go' equipment loadouts each with their own Wheels (heres where you could fit in Stance ideas too) or you could just combine A and B and use these as seperate Wheels

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Which would effectively give you 60 quick-select Favourites options, all only 3 Inputs away

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Compared to Skyrim, where the list displays 7 items, so you're looking at a minimum of 9 inputs to select the last one on the list.

remote epoch Sep 19, 2021, 12:10 PM

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Wait do Argonians molt like lizard?

magic tundra Sep 19, 2021, 12:27 PM

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https://esoitem.uesp.net/itemLink.php?&questid=5687&quality=5
it seems so

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"Jewelry that Anais had made from my hatching shell and scales I lost during moulting."

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:12 PM

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So when does the new elder scrolls come out for consoles

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Also will it be more like Morrowind where I can build up acrobatics and possibly fly

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And see live dwarves

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How close to fallout are we gonna be on it to I wanna farm materials and upgrade better variants of armors and weapons

magic tundra Sep 19, 2021, 1:19 PM

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let me summarize all we know about the next Elder Scrolls:
The Elder Scrolls VI

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:19 PM

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Sweet. I’m all hyped about it

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Wait was that your summery. Just the title lol

remote epoch Sep 19, 2021, 1:38 PM

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crystal reef Wait was that your summery. Just the title lol

Lmao

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:39 PM

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Yeah I sat at edge of chair all excited and ready to read about it haha

magic tundra Sep 19, 2021, 1:40 PM

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😛

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:41 PM

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Do we at least know if it will be out before starfield?

magic tundra Sep 19, 2021, 1:42 PM

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we know it will be out after starfield
starfield is what they're currently working on; they haven't even started working on TES6

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:44 PM

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Good lord. That’s like years away it feels like still. What will I play until then

remote epoch Sep 19, 2021, 1:45 PM

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crystal reef Good lord. That’s like years away it feels like still. What will I play until th...

Starfield i guess

crystal reef Sep 19, 2021, 1:46 PM

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Haha when it comes out I will.

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I could just start another new game on fallout or Skyrim. Again

weak sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 2:12 PM

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Plenty of other games out there.

My general fallbacks are Stardew Valley, Xcom, Heroes of the Storm, Stellaris, and WoW. Though, with the ongoing issues with Activision Blizzard, i haven't touched WoW or Heroes in months.

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 7:35 PM

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I’ve got a new question for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

In my notes, I have that Vampires discover Red Lyrium, and begin seeking it because it grants them a level of resistance to sunlight.

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Red_lyrium

So my question is, since vampires aren’t like mortals, what other effects would Red Lyrium have on them?

Dragon Age Wiki

Red lyrium

For the location of primeval red lyrium nodes in Dragon Age: Inquisition, see Seeing Red.
Red lyrium is a more potent and more addictive form of raw lyrium.

 	 	 		 			 		 		 		 			A cavern with veins of red lyrium

plush sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 7:43 PM

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wide garnet I’ve got a new question for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction: In my ...

I feel, if anything, the petrification of Red Lyrium would still happen, but perhaps at a much slower rate? Maybe the vampires are affected the same as mortals, since red lyrium is linked to spirits/demons, but over a longer time period?

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 7:44 PM

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plush sapphire I feel, if anything, the petrification of Red Lyrium would still happen, but per...

That’s what I thought, but what ELSE could it do. Varric says that it can “make things float” and “bring statues to life”, while Cole says it’s “very angry”.

plush sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 7:47 PM

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Make things float... This is a bit out there, but what if it gave them telekinesis?

weak sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 7:48 PM

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There's your explanation for where Gargoyles come from in your fanfiction

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 7:48 PM

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weak sapphire There's your explanation for where Gargoyles come from in your fanfiction

Red Lyrium?

weak sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 7:49 PM

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Yeah.

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 7:49 PM

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weak sapphire Yeah.

Guess it’s worth a try.

weak sapphire Sep 19, 2021, 7:49 PM

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It's an easy explanation for something we still don't have a straight answer for in TES directly

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 7:59 PM

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Okay, how about this: During the Events of ESO, Molag tried to pull a Blight-weakened Thedas into Coldharbour at the same time, causing Andraste to put her rebellion against Tevinter on hold to help the Vestige stop him.

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/First_Blight

During this time period, there were a few Dwemer hounds (did I get that term right?) who discovered the infamous Bartrand’s Folly, and thereby Red Lyrium, before it was officially re-discovered.

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Primeval_Thaig

Dragon Age Wiki

First Blight

First Blight | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

Dragon Age Wiki

Primeval Thaig

Primeval Thaig | Dragon Age Wiki | Fandom

cinder idol Sep 19, 2021, 10:26 PM

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~~Primeval Thaig is just glowy Bloodgrass~~

wide garnet Sep 19, 2021, 11:09 PM

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cinder idol ~~Primeval Thaig is just glowy Bloodgrass~~

Close, but not quite. That’s Red lyrium.

wide garnet Sep 20, 2021, 2:30 AM

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I almost forgot to mention two things.

Part of what makes Red lyrium so bad is that simply being near it enables it to “sing” to you, like a song on the edge of hearing, eventually becoming “whispers in the mind” that drives you mad. Cole describes the song as “the song behind the door that old whispers want opened.”.

And 2. MY Champion of Cyrodiil character (named Alexander the Great) retires to Kirkwall in an attempt to enjoy his remaining time as “himself”, but the Qunari Uprising, the Mage Rebellion, and the Fall of Meredith, which were all complicated by a splinter cell of Mythic Dawn cultists and Mehrunes Dagon’s “revenge” against Alexander, hastened his “ascension” into Sheogorath, primarily due to relative proximity to Red lyrium because of siding with the Templars in an attempt to steer them away from evil, while Hawke sided with the mages. Speaking of which, what would Sheogorath (both the old and the “new”) think of Red lyrium-induced madness?

bold basin Sep 20, 2021, 8:23 PM

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So, about the Elder Scrolls (not TES6), specifically TES5 wishlist: UE5 Nanite+Lumen (similar technology) in the game-engine used by Bethesda Game Studios. Skyrim: Photorealistic Edition?

magic tundra Sep 20, 2021, 8:24 PM

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I guess the time for TES5 wishlists is long past
That game released nearly 10 years ago...

last vessel Sep 20, 2021, 8:24 PM

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That sounds like a significant overhaul that they're unlikely to make in case it breaks stuff.

bold basin Sep 20, 2021, 8:25 PM

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Yeah, I employ CBBE and lots of other mods to make Skyrim bearable.

spice whale Sep 20, 2021, 8:25 PM

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let's call 'we tried photogrammetry and we literally were sitting on a version of that so here goes' Skyrim Photogrammetry edition <3

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i hope that doesnt sound unfriendly. i love BGS

bold basin Sep 20, 2021, 8:26 PM

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Or "Skyrim: Very Special Edition"

quartz nimbus Sep 20, 2021, 8:26 PM

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bold basin Or "Skyrim: Very Special Edition"

that's the alexa version babey

bold basin Sep 20, 2021, 8:29 PM

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Ohhh, so not a new idea then... :/ Thought Alexa was Skyrim: Sultry Voice Edition

quartz nimbus Sep 20, 2021, 8:30 PM

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just the name is already in use

prime marlin Sep 21, 2021, 3:52 AM

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last vessel That sounds like a significant overhaul that they're unlikely to make in case it...

thwts not even a significant overhaul thats litwrally asking for a 100% different workflow assets and engine

long raft Sep 21, 2021, 6:17 AM

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The elder scrolls online

dim reef Sep 21, 2021, 9:01 PM

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i need to get back into talking about here

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kinda stopped cause i was taking a break from things

orchid vector Sep 22, 2021, 11:43 AM

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What year do you think es6 will launch, my bet is on 2027

remote epoch Sep 22, 2021, 11:47 AM

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orchid vector What year do you think es6 will launch, my bet is on 2027

Or 2077

stoic fiber Sep 22, 2021, 12:44 PM

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It's obvious 2920

remote epoch Sep 22, 2021, 12:50 PM

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Noice

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2920 game releases 3680 patch for bug

magic tundra Sep 22, 2021, 3:07 PM

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It starts with 0 after 2920, though
(Or 1? Anyway, numbering begins anew)

remote epoch Sep 22, 2021, 8:43 PM

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Man I'm dumb

last vessel Sep 22, 2021, 8:48 PM

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They'll do something weird with a date. Then it'll be obvious in retrospect.

eager remnant Sep 22, 2021, 9:06 PM

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last vessel They'll do something weird with a date. Then it'll be obvious in retrospect.

Or they might do something clever with the title. They announced Oblivion by adding one letter per day to a blank background on the front page of their website. They did this by starting in the middle, with IV, then filling in the rest of the letters on successive days. This gave us the roman numeral "IV" first, then the full title. It had fans guessing for a week.

last vessel Sep 22, 2021, 9:09 PM

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Hmmm. 2028 is divisible by 6.
If they released it in June (month 6) that might have some relevance?

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Unfortunately 6/6/2028 is not a Friday or Saturday.

weak sapphire Sep 22, 2021, 9:13 PM

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6/6/2026 is though

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4 year turnover isn't out of Bethesda's usual release cycle

fast scroll Sep 22, 2021, 10:21 PM

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I'd guess 3-4 years after Starfield

orchid vector Sep 23, 2021, 12:52 AM

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I wonder if the es6 will be before or after skyrim

weak sapphire Sep 23, 2021, 1:29 AM

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Almost certianly after. None of the numbered games have been prequels

prime marlin Sep 23, 2021, 2:20 AM

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oblivions funny because it and morrowind were books on the bookshelf in redguards intro

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it had arena daggerfall morrowind oblivion and then one after that wasnt actually readable

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 6:27 AM

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prime marlin it had arena daggerfall morrowind oblivion and then one after that wasnt actuall...

Kinda makes sense as those last few games had the same voice actors, then Skyrim's voice cast was almost all different.

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 8:02 AM

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How are voice actors relevant to that?

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What is interesting is that this was a reveal of TES4's name before TES3 was even released
Not sure how far in development it was at that time

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I think the fifth book read something like "Romanella", which obviously is not Skyrim xD

dim reef Sep 23, 2021, 8:06 AM

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prime marlin oblivions funny because it and morrowind were books on the bookshelf in redguard...

I remember looking at old forum posts where people in 2001 were wondering when oblivion will be released. Makes sense now how they knew about it

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 1:55 PM

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magic tundra How are voice actors relevant to that?

They could have planned it enough to have already recorded voice lines.

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We really need better reasons to go into ingame bars and eateries. Oblivion had the unique enchanted gear in shops and Morrowind had... Well, y'know. And the ones in Skyrim have NPC followers and questgivers but none of them have anything to bring you back unless you seriously want butter for crab legs for a no potions challenge run in Skyrim. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1r9j0azY_0Y

YouTube

Micky D

First Time in Suran

An outlander takes a visit to the House of Earthly Delights in Morrowind.

Be sure to catch me on Twitch and hit the bell so you know when I'll be live!
https://www.twitch.tv/mickyd97

Donation link - https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/MickyDYouTube

Follow my Twitter! - https://twitter.com/DeMickyD

#morrowind #morrowindmemes #elderscrolls

▶ Play video

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 2:13 PM

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Hey, come on... there's always bribing bards to sing songs for you in Skyrim.

And abusing mechanics to level certain schools of magic with non-hostile, multi-target spells.

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 2:19 PM

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last vessel Hey, come on... there's always bribing bards to sing songs for you in Skyrim. ...

Yeah, but they only have like 2 songs, 3 if you count the other faction's remix.
And sure, I guess there's targeted spells too (too rich for my blood buying all those tomes).

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 2:19 PM

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last time I was merrily leveling illusion that way I found the spell tome on a corpse. 😄

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 2:23 PM

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last vessel last time I was merrily leveling illusion that way I found the spell tome on a c...

I mean, magicmen may have them sometimes but they are the worst to fight for the reasons I keep mentioning. Conjurers from the Spell Tomes DLC in Oblivion were way easier.

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 2:34 PM

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In Skyrim they die horribly to sniper fire (or sufficient magic resistance I suppose), so that's a thing.

But yeah, I can see wanting more things to do with bars and eateries... It's just difficult to justify what it should be unless you're tucking unique vendors into them, or putting fences in the darker, shadier bars - but even there, shouldn't the fences be "legitimate businessmen/women" with proper businesses as a front, rather than the suspiciously rich guy in the slum? 😄

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 2:53 PM

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cinder idol They could have planned it enough to have already recorded voice lines.

Why would they needed to have voice lines for an animation of a bookshelf?

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 2:56 PM

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magic tundra Why would they needed to have voice lines for an animation of a bookshelf?

As in, recorded a number of voice lines for Morrowind/Oblivion by that time, which may be why there apparently was a voice actor whose lines were replaced at some point with those of another actor in the files of Oblivion.

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 2:57 PM

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I doubt they'd recorded Oblivion lines back when they made Redguard.

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 2:58 PM

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last vessel In Skyrim they die horribly to sniper fire (or sufficient magic resistance I sup...

I mean they do, but they are usually in enclosed spaces which sucks due to their AOE spam. The one time I managed to fight some at the very limit of bow range they managed to injure me with a stray firebolt despite shooting wildly in CAUTION mode.

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 2:58 PM

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I doubt they had any actual writing done for Oblivion by that time
Remember, they hadn't released Morrowind yet, and IIRC they weren't really well financially, so it's unlikely they worked two games ahead

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 3:03 PM

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There's no real way of knowing aside from asking BethSoftworks employees around at the time, they may have had to bitcrush the lines in Redguard because file sizes but that doesn't mean they couldn't keep uncompressed versions on standby. I don't know how voice acting worked but I'd imagine doing a bunch of lines early would be less expensive than bringing them back in later for more sessions.

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 3:05 PM

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It makes absolutely no sense, though

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 3:07 PM

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I don't see why not if they're lines that don't need much writing like "Oh, hello." or "Greetings."

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 3:08 PM

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8 years of recording tech improvements tends to make old recordings less than useful.

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Plus you don't necessarily know that early on what your guards are going to be, or exactly where it'll be set.
Think the difference between having characters with "imperial" accents and "Nord" accents.

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And of course if all you've got is the basic lines like "hello", "greetings", "you're under arrest", and then you want to use guards for quest givers and so on you have to get those actors back anyway.

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 3:13 PM

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Also, even if a new season would cost much more, having them record additional lines is also cost-intensive. At a time where money is on short supply you don't spend it on something two projects ahead, you try to get the current project out

cinder idol Sep 23, 2021, 3:41 PM

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That is true. They must have had some idea on the story and where it'd be set, though.

last vessel Sep 23, 2021, 3:49 PM

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They might have had several possible stories and locations. Remember this would be two whole games ahead.

magic tundra Sep 23, 2021, 3:58 PM

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it was like "uhh, some daedric invasion... in cyrodiil?"

spice whale Sep 23, 2021, 6:12 PM

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in skyrim 'cover story' on gameinformer Kurt Kuhlmann tells what happened so far in TES games, lemme:
“Battlespire sets up Mehrunes Dagon as an enemy of the Septim Empire, and his defeat provided him the motive of revenge in Oblivion’s story.”
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/12/26/decrypting-the-elder-scrolls.aspx
seems like they thought about Lord Dagon's fun when they made up that post-Morrowind title.. Wait, wait a minute

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wait a minute

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how come Redguard features title Morrowind, if they were thinking about game set in Summerset? they meant to call it Tribunal

weak sapphire Sep 23, 2021, 7:28 PM

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spice whale how come Redguard features title Morrowind, if they were thinking about game set...

Likely because they had already changed ideas by that point.

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As the story goes, it was the description of Morrowind in The Pocket Guide to the Empire which changed the setting for TES3. But that document was written FOR the development of Redguard. So by the time they actually made the intro for Redguard, they probably had already decided to move TES3 from Summerset, to Morrowind.

spice whale Sep 23, 2021, 7:30 PM

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could also mean that time is not linear and reality is bugged 👆

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though yes, now i recall Kirkbride laughing in polygon's 'oral history of Morrowind' how boss Howard demanded he must work on Redguard more

weak sapphire Sep 23, 2021, 7:38 PM

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A lot seems to have gone on in those days

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Some good, some bad

thorn hazel Sep 23, 2021, 8:39 PM

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It was only during and right after Daggerfall that Tribunal was thought to be the sequel. They didn’t get far into it before switching the location to morrowind. I did a ton of digging into this in the past few years and can write an article about it if people are interested

spice whale Sep 23, 2021, 8:58 PM

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hah, some pre-Daggerfall rumors from UESP:
Development of TES3 is already well advanced under the stewardship of Bruce Nesmith as Chief Designer and Julian Le Fay as Chief Programmer. It is set in the province of Summurset Isle, and will run under a later release of X(n)gine, which incorporates SVGA. It will probably not be a native Windows 95 application. The (first) release date is slated for August 1997
sounds like there's lots of drama in that story. LeFay and Petterson left and such. article about this period? yes please *- *

thorn hazel Sep 23, 2021, 8:59 PM

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Not really drama just an interesting what if case.

trim horizon Sep 24, 2021, 9:03 PM

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Iirc, TES 3 developmemt restarted twice. And the drama happened soon after Morrowind's release

thorn hazel Sep 24, 2021, 11:07 PM

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Either way I prefer not to focus on the drama aspect more than I have to. It's really not worth dwelling on for too long.

trim horizon Sep 24, 2021, 11:26 PM

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Yeah

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 1:53 PM

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Oooooh boy did drama start soon after release...

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I'm ashamed to admit, i was one of those who was pissed about the game, but some people were down right vengeful

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"Its not like Daggerfall, TES is ruined!"

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Aaand then the threats came. How anyone can threaten someone, least of all a developer, just because you don't like a game is beyond me. I actually left the forums entirely during that period. Didn't come back till Skyrim.

eager remnant Sep 25, 2021, 2:57 PM

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Yes, the negativity was so bad I had to stop visiting Bethesda's forums for awhile. It was starting to poison my love for the game. I came back about the time Tribunal was released. Tempers had cooled slightly by then.

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 3:02 PM

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And I suspect the worst offenders has been given a justified ban hammer.

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I warmed up to Morrowind when my friends started playing it, and praising it. Ultimately, while i still think the game its self is clunky and poorly executed in a lot of ways, i fell in love with the world and depth of worldbuilding

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Buuuut... then Oblivion...

cinder idol Sep 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

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Oblivion is great if you don't take it too seriously. It has a lot I like, the rather cheery atmosphere, the goofy stuff that happens intentionally and unintentionally and the effort they gave it (even if the execution can be iffy) gives it such a charm to it.

eager remnant Sep 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

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Oblivion, in its vanilla state, is my second-least favorite in the numbered series, after Arena. Ironically, once Oblivion was released I became the very thing I disliked. Now it was me saying negative things about Oblivion and probably driving people away from the forums.

These days I can play it without getting too enraged if I use a bunch of gameplay-changing mods like Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul, Av Latta Magicka, Realistic Fatigue, Sneaking Detection Recalibrated and others.

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

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I can tolerate Oblivion's existence, but i doubt i will ever enjoy it.

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Still, that puts it ahead of New Vegas, so it's got that going for it.

weary quiver Sep 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

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The world building in oblivion was the least cohesive and spread themselves thin trying to cover everything, although for its time it was cutting edge, and the forested central areas were well done and cohesive

fast scroll Sep 25, 2021, 5:23 PM

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I was technically introduced through TESIII a couple times, but IV was the one I truly dug into first. Many like me loved it. I still think II is the best, followed by III, but I have nothing but love for IV

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Someone I know who grew up with II said he really likes IV because it reminds him of II in some ways. It's more medievaly, you have your horse again

weary quiver Sep 25, 2021, 5:33 PM

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hackdirt was the best village in tes and ongar the world weary the best npc in gaming

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 5:35 PM

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My problem with IV stems from the fact that... Morrowind was creative and interesting and well thought out. It was clear that the devs had taken time and care in building a world, and it felt unque. Not alien, as modt describe it, but... well, if you see a picture from Morrowind, you know its from Morrowind.

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Oblivion, on the other hand, went back to generic medieval fantasy. Change the names in that game, and it could be dropped in practically any other Fantasy setting. There is nothing unique or innovative or distinct about it. Even the Deadlands are just "Hell".

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And i couldn't get past that. Gameplay asside, i couldn't get passed the genuine sense of wonder and exploration of Morrowind being replaced with the same bog standard Medieval Fantasy i could find in a dozen other games. Games which arguably did it better.

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Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate had better characters. Dark Messiah had better atmosphere. World of Warcraft had better exploraton and environments.

fast scroll Sep 25, 2021, 5:44 PM

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I completely understand. Those are some of the reasons why the others rank higher for me

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 5:45 PM

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Plus, I'm incredibly bitter about the Dark brotherhood and Manimarco

fast scroll Sep 25, 2021, 6:02 PM

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That's interesting because the Dark Brotherhood bit is usually viewed as the best part

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Thieves Guild may be my favorite, DB or FG might be next

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I really appreciate the MG makes you go to each city (and that there's chapters in each city at all)

weak sapphire Sep 25, 2021, 6:53 PM

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I think they took all the menace and threat out of the Brotherhood and turned them into a bunch of tacky Manson Family rejects

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All of the factions in Oblivion are deeply flawed, bjt the Brotherhood is the only one i hate the direction of, and i think it fundimentally ruined the Brotherhood for me.

plush sapphire Sep 26, 2021, 2:45 AM

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If you need assistance with ESO related issues, please reach out to the ESO support team: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/incident

scenic spade Sep 26, 2021, 2:51 AM

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Any good guesses on when The Elder Scrolls 6 will come out?

plush sapphire Sep 26, 2021, 2:59 AM

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Moderators and members here cannot assist with things like this.

eager remnant Sep 26, 2021, 3:04 AM

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scenic spade Any good guesses on when The Elder Scrolls 6 will come out?

We know that Bethesda Softworks intends to stick to the release schdule they have manintained with Bethesda Game Studios over the past two decades. In the past they have generally released the studios' games every three to four years. So if we assume that Starfield is not delayed that puts a probable release date for TES VI at about 2025 to 2026.

scenic spade Sep 26, 2021, 3:11 AM

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eager remnant We know that Bethesda Softworks intends to stick to the release schdule they hav...

Good Lord that's a long ways away. Skyrim is gonna get enjoyed for that many more years huh? I guess that's okay...

plush sapphire Sep 26, 2021, 3:14 AM

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@wicked shore As I said, members of this server are not able to help with this, as this is not an ESO or ZOS related server. You will have to contact the ESO/ZOS team, and the best method for that is through a ticket or on Twitter.

thorn hazel Sep 26, 2021, 4:03 AM

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For those interested in the origin of the name of Alduin I wrote about the history of it here. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/pvlpp3/on_the_origins_of_the_name_alduin_dreadlord_of/

r/teslore - On the Origins of the Name Alduin: Dreadlord of Ebonarm

0 votes and 0 comments so far on Reddit

weary quiver Sep 26, 2021, 3:01 PM

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todd howard does a good job of naming things that are fitting and not cornball which is a potential problem in fantasy games, maybe not tolkien level but very good. instead of cornball names like narnia and alamur.

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that right there would make me instantly not buy a product

last vessel Sep 26, 2021, 3:09 PM

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Because "Nirn", "Akavir", "Tamriel" all sound so much better than either?

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And "hey, where do our demon equivalents live?"
"Oh, 'Oblivion' will do for that..."

magic tundra Sep 26, 2021, 3:17 PM

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I was pretty confused when I first heard of "nocturnal animals"
like, what's that daedric prince having to do with them?

weary quiver Sep 26, 2021, 3:17 PM

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i like those. the only one i dont like is colovia, sounds like a low budget gated community

magic tundra Sep 26, 2021, 3:17 PM

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(as a non-native english speaker I heard of the daedric prince Nocturnal before I learned that it was also a regular word in the english language)

weary quiver Sep 26, 2021, 3:25 PM

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i mean a game called kingdom of akavir would sound pretty lame, but in context its fine because it refers to some ancient long ago myth that likely would have originated in a long ago lexicon

weak sapphire Sep 26, 2021, 5:57 PM

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Yeah, words only loose their absurdity with familiarity.

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At their core, they're abstract collections of sound that habe no direct relation with what they discribe, and only take on that association through collectice agreement of their use

dim reef Sep 26, 2021, 10:04 PM

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magic tundra I was pretty confused when I first heard of "nocturnal animals" like, what's tha...

Me with meridians or the colours azure or sanguine except I’m a native English speaker

orchid vector Sep 28, 2021, 12:02 PM

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Will Hamnerfell really be TES VI next location?

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If not, where would be a good place?

last vessel Sep 28, 2021, 12:49 PM

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ESVI : That one island just off Stros M'kai

weak sapphire Sep 28, 2021, 1:26 PM

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The current indications are that Hammerfell is likley. However, Blackmarsh, Elsweyr, Valenwood and Summerset are all good options as well.

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Depends on the story being told.

pearl pond Sep 28, 2021, 4:18 PM

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I could also see it being slightly in bangkorai if they REALLY want to go full on scale with the game

fast scroll Sep 28, 2021, 7:46 PM

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I wouldn't count on a beastland game, sadly

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Though after the acquisition it might be possible

spice whale Sep 28, 2021, 7:47 PM

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who wouldnt want a triple A rpg about lizards \o/

harsh crown Sep 28, 2021, 7:48 PM

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Lizards you say?

thorn hazel Sep 28, 2021, 7:58 PM

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I just hope one day we get TESA II: Eye of Argonia

magic tundra Sep 28, 2021, 7:59 PM

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I doubt it...

weak sapphire Sep 28, 2021, 8:01 PM

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I think they'd be totally be fine with a game about tree licking lizards in a swamp

wide garnet Sep 28, 2021, 8:05 PM

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weak sapphire I think they'd be totally be fine with a game about tree licking lizards in a sw...

😕

weak sapphire Sep 28, 2021, 8:06 PM

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You can't tell me that's not an accurate description of Argonians

fast scroll Sep 28, 2021, 8:11 PM

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I got pinged, but there's nothing there 👻

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Come to think of it, my message is gone, too

weak sapphire Sep 28, 2021, 8:12 PM

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Was there a tangent that got mod hammered?

fast scroll Sep 28, 2021, 8:16 PM

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I'm not sure, maybe. I just looked at the rules of this server and couldn't see one I could have violated

spare anchor Sep 28, 2021, 8:16 PM

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Abusive language and disruptive behavior will not be tolerated. This includes comments directed at ZeniMax/Bethesda employees, mods, your fellow community members, or other groups or companies.

fast scroll Sep 28, 2021, 8:17 PM

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Ohhhh, I said something would be really cool, but not in the best way

magic tundra Sep 28, 2021, 8:20 PM

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~~maybe say it in a better way next time~~

nimble pond Sep 29, 2021, 5:17 AM

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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/1b/34/541b34d3f7b5db6009a2fb3cb3d260ba.gif

orchid thicket Sep 29, 2021, 10:51 AM

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Oldmidium

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I made a Emote for fun, It's the Numidium from Daggerfall

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It always looks so angry

weary quiver Sep 29, 2021, 1:03 PM

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For mass appeal in an rpg, a temperate area would seem best. Not sure if a jungle or desert world is best in that regard

weak sapphire Sep 29, 2021, 1:30 PM

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An area with diversity would be best

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Elsweyr and Hammerfell habe deserts, rocky uplands, forests and jungles

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Valenwood and Blackmarsh would be harder to diversify in a similar way, but not impossible

nimble pond Sep 29, 2021, 2:38 PM

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I mean you have sub-themes within the main theme too. Like Skyrim is pretty much snow-based, but there were still areas different from that and not just snow entirely.

fast scroll Sep 29, 2021, 3:54 PM

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Yeah Skyrim is a good example of the team finding a way to make the biomes pretty diverse

orchid thicket Sep 29, 2021, 3:55 PM

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I always forget Skyrim has hot springs

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Mainly because I rarely go to that part

weak sapphire Sep 29, 2021, 4:07 PM

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Oh man, those hot springs are something else with a decent ENB and some fog effects

weak sapphire Sep 29, 2021, 5:25 PM

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But yeah. With a bit of creativity, you can make any of the provinces feel diverse and interesting

fast scroll Sep 29, 2021, 5:45 PM

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I would appreciate them even more if the entire province were at least twice the size as it ended up being. So you can't as easily see 3-4 other biomes from the one you're in 🙂

cinder idol Sep 29, 2021, 5:50 PM

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Oblivion... Kinda did that. Snow up in Bruma, Swamps near Leyawiin, forest near the island the Imperial City was on, torched hellscape which pretty much was Kvatch, wide open countryside near Anvil... I might be forgetting some but they were all pretty far apart.

fast scroll Sep 29, 2021, 5:55 PM

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Yeah there were different looks even for the regions that weren't snowy, rocky, swampy. I liked them all for different reasons, especially County Cheydinhal. It could have been mostly jungle like the lore says 🙃, but I definitely appreciated it for what it was

eager remnant Sep 29, 2021, 6:10 PM

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I'm not a fan of this modern trend of "infinite view distance" in games. Like InheritedWill says, it's too easy to see massive areas of the game world at once. This, to me, just makes a game world feel incredibly tiny and cramped, almost like a model train layout.

fast scroll Sep 29, 2021, 6:58 PM

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That's a good point, the view distance can play a big role in this type of game. I always thought of it as some sort of amusement park that has several themed sections, and you can see a few of them without needing to be on the edge of one

orchid thicket Sep 29, 2021, 7:17 PM

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Back in Morrowind it was mind blowing to see two towns at once if you stood on a rock

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These days you just have a mod to make the draw distance way higher

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I was too young to play Morrowind back when it came out, first game I played from BGS was Skyrim

fast scroll Sep 29, 2021, 7:29 PM

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I could barely see a few meters ahead of me in Vvardenfell, and was probably better for it

weary quiver Sep 29, 2021, 7:52 PM

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ultima underworld the draw distance was very short, which added to the underground spooky atmosphere

cinder idol Sep 29, 2021, 8:38 PM

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eager remnant I'm not a fan of this modern trend of "infinite view distance" in games. Like I...

That's why you've got to design the terrain super well, can't see the icy north from the desert if there are sand dunes and mountains blocking your view. It does make me wonder if it's bad to see super far from extremely high up, though, like if you're on Mount Everest and see a desert from thousands of miles away with an incredibly strong telescope. The issue might be the small size of the workd honestly, though I prefer small places with lots of detail to places that are realistically big but have absolutely nothing for miles...

trim horizon Sep 29, 2021, 8:51 PM

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I keep on getting character ideas and develop them.
Despite still having other characters to play as. XD

last vessel Sep 29, 2021, 9:02 PM

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Twin dagger altmer stealth assassin. 😄

trim horizon Sep 29, 2021, 9:04 PM

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lol
Nice

last vessel Sep 29, 2021, 9:16 PM

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That might be next on my list if I can just wean myself off of bows, and stop having a horde of followers who get everything before I get close.

cinder idol Sep 29, 2021, 9:56 PM

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I just keep going back to bows. I'm considering trying the Morrowind multiplayer mod as an archer, even if hit chance is an issue.

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Also it sucks you can't just poison arrows several at a time instead of one poison per arrow. Make a big amount and dip them in, it's not pouring an entire bottle on a claymore, for goodness sake.

nimble pond Sep 30, 2021, 1:46 AM

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eager remnant I'm not a fan of this modern trend of "infinite view distance" in games. Like I...

While I like the cities and destinations, I def like all the stuff that goes on and you encounter in between, traveling. Which you wouldn't be able to engage or experience as well without distance. Sometimes big and loud things, sometimes more quiet and subtle things you notice out there

weak sapphire Sep 30, 2021, 1:16 PM

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Like most things, view distance is a tool tjat can be used well, or used poorly. Climbing up to a high location to see potential points of interest could be really cool, especially if combined with manual map markers. But at the same time, being able to easily see how close things are to eachother can make the world feel much smaller

nimble pond Sep 30, 2021, 2:19 PM

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When you think about it, that happens everytime you open the digital map in Skyrim. It's a big map in itself, but it does feel smaller when opening the whole map to look at. But even when you look down from the Throat of the World in Skyrim, you still can't see every location or the whole map, just a chunk of it. Which I think that is okay since we can do the same and see a good chunk of land mass if we were to stand from a mountain or skyscraper (depending on the weather of course, like fog and whether it's day or night lit up by thousands of tiny lights). So I would just use for scenics views in certain areas or for beautiful architectures itself. And then smaller towers more for tactical/combat approaches (would be nice to climb trees too and drop down on opponents for assassin kills or better vantage point for bows).

weary quiver Sep 30, 2021, 3:30 PM

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bows are good in skyrim. melee needs to be improved, melee should be intrinsically fun which increases replayability

eager remnant Sep 30, 2021, 3:36 PM

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nimble pond When you think about it, that happens everytime you open the digital map in Skyr...

I agree. I think Skyrim handled this much better than Oblivion did. In Oblivion I hated seeing Anvil from Kvatch, or Chorrol from the Imperial City, and so on. There isn't nearly as much of that in Skyrim.

cinder idol Sep 30, 2021, 5:08 PM

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eager remnant I agree. I think Skyrim handled this much better than Oblivion did. In Oblivi...

I think that's more to do with geography than anything else, since Cyrodiil is much less jagged than Skyrim's landscape with rolling hills. Then again, the White-Gold tower is an incredibly visible landmark due to its sheer scale and lack of obstructions.

weak sapphire Sep 30, 2021, 5:48 PM

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White-Gold is just a cheap knockoff of the Tower of Hoeth

last vessel Sep 30, 2021, 6:09 PM

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Which is just a cheap knockoff of Minas Ithil.

nimble pond Sep 30, 2021, 6:58 PM

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Really I've been curious about High Rock, but not for it's mountains, but because of underground/cavern surface cities within some of those mountain ranges. Not just a bunch of random cave dungeons. I know they have Dwemer for that, but personally I usually associate them with the deeper depths and their own unique architectural style and theme.

weak sapphire Sep 30, 2021, 7:04 PM

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I'm more interested in underground in Valenwood

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But... well, ESOs Valenwood was a disappointment, and they'd need to totally redesugn the province in concept to do what ibwant..

nimble pond Sep 30, 2021, 7:11 PM

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Valenwood, I like the idea of linking treetop cities / structures with giant trees teetering up into the sky, underground tree root cities and structures, hobbit-like surface homes, hidden illusionary and vibrant portals to beautiful and mystical grottos, massive spider dwellings, dense dark forests that change like a rotating labyrinth evetytime you enter them. And the like..

weak sapphire Sep 30, 2021, 7:16 PM

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Mountain sized trees woth roots thag split the earth, and deep chasms riddled with caves

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Populated by Satyr

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Divide it through 4 levels. The Black (chasms)the Brown (grpund level) the Green (the boughs of the trees) and the Blue (the treetops, where you can see the sky)

nimble pond Sep 30, 2021, 7:55 PM

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Yes, I could def see a more corrupted forest part of it as well. Possibly changed/altered by the piece of the Staff of Chaos hidden there.

fast scroll Oct 1, 2021, 1:06 AM

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It's ridiculous the amount of potential Valenwood has. It's become my favorite province to think about over the years

nimble pond Oct 1, 2021, 1:12 AM

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I like High Rock, Argonia, Morrowind

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 5:43 PM

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I like all the provinces. So long as they do something interesting with them

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Like, if Hammerfell is all just deserts and Oases... naw, that sucks

nimble pond Oct 1, 2021, 5:44 PM

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Yokuda always seemed Egyptian to me in the lore

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I'm intrigued by the whole separate continents being one large mass without any oceans in the beginning, then being separated. That and the sheer power to sink Yokuda. Makes me wonder if more of such disasters occur, like Hammerfell disconnecting from the rest of Tamriel

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Afaik there's no continental drift

magic tundra Oct 1, 2021, 5:47 PM

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the continents were once a single landmass?
where's that sourced?

nimble pond Oct 1, 2021, 5:48 PM

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I read it somewhere, let me go peek again

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They also got more complex conjecture about how yokuda is the past, tamriel the present, and Akavir the future. Kalpa

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Much of Tamriel's history is known and documented, but large swathes are still unknown, particularly the periods known as the Dawn Era and the Merethic Era. Tamriel's very beginning can be traced to the War of the Ehlnofey, when the wandering Ehlnofey fought the Ehlnofey who remained settled in their former home. During this war the original singular landmass of Nirn was broken apart into at least four major landmasses—Tamriel, Akavir, Atmora, and Yokuda.[6] The wandering Ehlnofey were ancestors to all men, while the settled Ehlnofey were co-ancestors with the Aldmer to all mer. It was at the end of the Dawn Era that the Aldmer of Aldmeris began to diverge along cultural and biological lines, starting the process that would lead to the modern mer races.

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But I could of misunderstood it

nimble pond Oct 1, 2021, 6:17 PM

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You can also read some about it in The Annotated Anuad: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Annotated_Anuad

Lore:The Annotated Anuad

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It's interesting that so much of it sunk. Makes me wonder if we'll ever get to explore some of those underwater forgotten lands and what lurks hidden within.

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:25 PM

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There is a myth that all the continents were linked until the Ehlnofex War flooded most of Nirn

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It ties intk the Water is Memory idea

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That said, you're dealing with the Dawn for this, soooo...

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:31 PM

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I know zero about the Dawn or Merethic Era

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All I actually know is Dwemer were kicking in the latter Merethic Era

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:38 PM

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The Dawn was a clusterf*

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Basically, strict linear time hadn't been imposed yet, so mutually exclusive outcomes could coexist, gods could be in multiple places at once, events couldfow backwards, and Metaphors were real things

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:39 PM

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All I know is the Merethic Era started with Lorkhan's trial or something

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as for elsewise

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I think anyway

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:40 PM

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The Merethic started with Auri'el' departure, and the Gods leaving Mundus. Lorkhans trial/execution was involved in that somehow

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It was an event known as Convention. All the Aedra, Daedra and Magne-Ge were there, and there is apparently a door to it in Adamantium Tower

weary quiver Oct 1, 2021, 7:41 PM

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hopefully there are flooding rivers like the nile

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:42 PM

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The highlight of what I know is supposedly how it went down. Lorkhan is trialled, Trinimac killed him and tried to destroy his heart. Then Auri-El's bow shot it across the world. My info might be shaky

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:42 PM

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That is one myth, yeah

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The Merethic is more structured. The Altmer start to explore out from Summerset. Chimer and Dwemer settle NE tamriel. Men from Atmora settle nkrthern tamriel

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:44 PM

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Do we know when Trinimac became Malacath?

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The Falmer origin and Dwemer origin always intrigued me

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We know Falmer once looked like Altmer but the road ends there

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The Kit offers nothing either

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:46 PM

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Trinimac became Malacath became leading up to the Velothi Exodus. Which, depending on the source, was either the late Dawn, or early Merethic

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:46 PM

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Interesting

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:47 PM

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The Falmer, like the Ayleids, were likely originally Altmeri colonists in the early Merethic

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:47 PM

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The Dwemer origin I know has a few theories about

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At some point a dev said they were once a great house

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:47 PM

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Yeah, we have almost no information about their origin

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But we do have a few references to House Dwemer

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:48 PM

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They have similar heights to Dunmer right, comparing the Spectors anyway

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:48 PM

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And a similar complexion to what we knkw of the Chimer.

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:49 PM

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Yeah, pale but that would be from primarily being inside

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Some needed googles to see the sun iirc

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 7:49 PM

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Then again, most Mer are some shade of yellow

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:50 PM

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All I know for sure is when it came to the Chimer-Dwemer alliance not all of the Dwemer were happy

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Rourken being the biggest that didn't like it

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 7:51 PM

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weak sapphire Then again, most Mer are some shade of yellow

Doesn't Corprus turn you yellowish?

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When it get's to the zombie stage

#

Might be lighting in the Corprus bowels tho

wide garnet Oct 1, 2021, 8:01 PM

#

Something I’m going to mention here since we’re talking about the Merethic Era:

In my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, After Alduin turns to evil, he demands an army “worthy of him”. The Dragon Cult at the time ensnare a renegade Dwemer Scientist whose obsession with using Alteration to purposely shape life got him banished from his people, and use him to create an army of spirit/mortal hybrids, which Alduin calls ‘Shiftlings’.

The problem though is that said Dwemer Scientist (inspired by Warlord Okeer from the Mass Effect Series) is also obsessed with perfectionism, and he discards his failures en masse. Ultimately, this is one of the catalysts that starts the Dragon War.

When the Inquisition, alongside the Dragonborn, discover a “Gate of Two Brothers”, which enables them to move back in time to that era, they eventually recover “Okeer’s” ‘perfect shiftling’.

#

Not going to say more right now, don’t want to spoil it.

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:06 PM

#

I'll give an example from my Dwarf from my mod. I took from a example of a Dwarf from Morrowind. That Dwarf being Radac in Tribunal and a little mix of Yagrum Bagarn wondering about what happened. This is for the past in your case, but Dwemer certainly had a ego problem. Always working on stuff trying to perfect it. For an example, Clan Rourken forged Spellbreaker just to fight Shalidor, but ultimately lost. Or at least first used it in the fight

#

Because of the limited Dwarves we've actually got a convo from, it's only Lore stories about Dwemer trying to challenge the gods, and other conflicts

#

Dwemer were a fan of Tonal Manipulation more than traditional Magic iirc

spice whale Oct 1, 2021, 8:15 PM

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holy crap, i finally understand what Deadlands dlc is about

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:15 PM

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The infected Corpus creatures we encounter all appear to be Human. The Ash Zombies and Ash Ghouls, on the other hand, appear to be Dunmer. So i think the colouration is more to do with their original race, rather than the Corpus themselves.

spice whale Oct 1, 2021, 8:15 PM

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slice of daedric life ? yes please

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:16 PM

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weak sapphire The infected Corpus creatures we encounter all appear to be Human. The Ash Zombi...

I looked at Yagrum in Legends and his skin is just pale in the art, but idk where his card is taken from.

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I thought his skin was yellow for some weird reason

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:16 PM

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wide garnet Something I’m going to mention here since we’re talking about the Merethic Era: ...

That could definitely fit into the events of the Merethic

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:17 PM

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Corprus art in Legends are just pale from what I've looked at, so I was way off

hard crow Oct 1, 2021, 8:17 PM

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https://chng.it/QR8G2smS
Hello, we made a petition about restoring/unfreezing tes: Legends, if it's not difficult for anyone, please leave a vote, just an attempt to attract the attention of Bethesda and Microsoft. To give a vote and leave a comment, you just have to have a mail. Thanks everyone in advance!

Change.org

Подпишите петицию

Unfreeze development «The Elder Scrolls: Legends»
(Return the game to active development)

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:19 PM

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Intrestingly, Dagoth Ur is also ashen skined

wide garnet Oct 1, 2021, 8:19 PM

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weak sapphire That could definitely fit into the events of the Merethic

Thank you.

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:19 PM

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But he died a Chimer, not a Dunmer

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:20 PM

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Dagoth Ur's long fingers freak me out

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Ash vampire fingers too

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like claws

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:21 PM

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I always liked to picture them more like extended fingers with the flesh worn through to bone

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So their 'Claws' are really just exposed bone

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:22 PM

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The Legends art got me the most

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In Morrowind the textures are from 2002 so Idm it as much

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For some reason the long extended fingers is all I can picture Kagrenac having

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He was obsessed with the Heart too

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:23 PM

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Yeah

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Maybe symbolic of mortals reaching too far?

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No... that's reading too much into it

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:24 PM

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In my mod I made one of my Spectors talk about Kagrenac so I had to invent a personality based off limited info known. [The mod has a Temple to him, but that's going into something for the skyrim mods channel]

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Not really a traditional worship temple either

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Just explaining Kagrenac and what he did and why it was not worth it

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:25 PM

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Yeah, unfortunately most of what we know about Kagrenac comes from outside sources

#

And may not reflect what Beth intends for the character

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:26 PM

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Pretty much. I tried to keep it to what Yagrum Bagarn says and the lore page. Explaining Dumac was a little easier as I have a book to him too because it's important imo to know Dumac too.

#

The moral of the story is Kagrenac made a error not worth repeating

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:29 PM

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Or, did he do exactly what he intended, and others interfered?

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:29 PM

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That's a possibility, but was in the perspective of a Dwarf who died before the conflict

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My living Dwarf never saw the war either

weak sapphire Oct 1, 2021, 8:30 PM

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Yeah

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A lot of those old conflicts are unclear

orchid thicket Oct 1, 2021, 8:30 PM

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I have one living Dwarf and the rest are Spectors using that Sovngarde effect

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Since it's Aetherius based

#

I also kept away from Spellbreaker because I don't want to have to completely move away from the source on info

#

I did a little piece on Volendrung tho, but just a history of what we actually know

#

Overall with the Mystery of the Disappearance it always makes me love Dwemer lore more. We have good guesses but I try and stay open to any possibility. We'll never get an answer but I'm fine with that

nimble pond Oct 2, 2021, 2:19 AM

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weak sapphire The Dawn was a clusterf*

Yup, Nirn is basically patches of 12 other worlds in 1 world (Nirn).

weak sapphire Oct 2, 2021, 12:26 PM

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Maybe. I personally prefer the Damaged Amaranthe hypothesis for the 12 worlds...

magic tundra Oct 4, 2021, 3:23 PM

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The what now?

weak sapphire Oct 4, 2021, 4:45 PM

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The idea that the 12 Worlds were actually the damaged psychies of Anu and Niri's 12 children in a previous Dream, crippled by Padomay

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The Ehlnofey and Hist being the only ones capable of semi-dreaming, and this influincing th Aubris in ways truly native entities cannot.

magic tundra Oct 4, 2021, 4:50 PM

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Ok, excuse me, I'm out

weak sapphire Oct 4, 2021, 5:01 PM

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Lol

#

It is, a rabbit hole

candid perch Oct 10, 2021, 2:24 PM

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So will Bastian ever be a romance option? Or is that more a ZOS question? >.>

magic tundra Oct 10, 2021, 2:37 PM

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definetly ZOS
BGS has little influence on ESO

candid perch Oct 10, 2021, 2:38 PM

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Darn! Ah well. 😄

#

patiently waits for ES6

sour flax Oct 12, 2021, 4:31 PM

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candid perch So will Bastian ever be a romance option? Or is that more a ZOS question? >.>

For anything related to ESO, you can visit the ESO forums at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories.

orchid vector Oct 12, 2021, 9:30 PM

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The ESO is also include in Xbox game pass?

eager remnant Oct 12, 2021, 9:51 PM

#

orchid vector The ESO is also include in Xbox game pass?

Again, feel free to ask your ESO-related questions in the proper locations. This is a Discord for Bethesda Game Studios. ESO is made by Zenimax Online studios. You can either use the link provided by Narathani directly above this post, or you can access the ESO Discord by clicking on #official-sites

gray oyster Oct 14, 2021, 5:40 AM

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Will ever a remake of Oblivion be released? I tried to play this game with huge amount of graphical mods but it still didn't look modern-styled (after modded Skyrim SE)...

magic tundra Oct 14, 2021, 8:36 AM

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Unless one of us can look into the future, the best we can say is "unlikely"

weary quiver Oct 14, 2021, 3:18 PM

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todd expressed hatred to remasters, but if others are doing so should you. its a layup so that appeals to some developers too

last vessel Oct 14, 2021, 3:27 PM

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gray oyster Will ever a remake of Oblivion be released? I tried to play this game with huge ...

Well, there's the Skyblivion mod if that helps at all.

magic tundra Oct 14, 2021, 3:33 PM

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*will be
I don't think it's finished yet

last vessel Oct 14, 2021, 4:45 PM

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Sorry, yeah.
There's the Skyblivion mod as a possible upcoming "remake" of the game.

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 5:18 PM

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I'm hoping for a Skybliviorrowindaggerfarena mod to be made some day...

topaz crow Oct 14, 2021, 6:12 PM

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cinder idol I'm hoping for a Skybliviorrowindaggerfarena mod to be made some day...

How would that even work?

#

Ik it’s a joke but I’d like to actually see it

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 6:22 PM

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topaz crow How would that even work?

It's all built in Skyrim's engine, but with Cyrodiil from Oblivion, Vvardenfell from Morrowind, Daggerfall from... You get the idea as time travel gateways at the edges of the map. Travel through one and you end up at the start of that game, or if you're past that point at an important area in that game, like Oblivion's Imperial City, Morrowind's Vivec etc. Everything would either need the game files of each game from Morrowind or Redguard onwards but once it enters 2D territory it'd have to be modeled in 3D by the modder.

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:22 PM

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arena had no actual overworld
daggerfalls too large
morrowind has skywind
oblivion has skyblivion

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thwt wouldnt work as youd expect because skyrims creation has limits to size

#

cyrodils pushing it massively

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 6:23 PM

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In regards to world size, a lot of Daggerfall and Arena was randomly generated, so you could do the same for those parts technically.

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:24 PM

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no you couldnt

#

daggerfall is way waaaaay too big to work in skyrims engine

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 6:24 PM

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Also, make it into smaller packs or add loading zones if size is an issue.

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:25 PM

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a full in scale remake would be more doable then a original size remake

#

since itd be alot smaller then skyrim

orchid thicket Oct 14, 2021, 6:25 PM

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You might as well just do faithful full remakes that don't deter too much

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:25 PM

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or just play daggrfall unity

orchid thicket Oct 14, 2021, 6:26 PM

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I don't even think they have the source code to polish up Daggerfall for a Remaster

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:26 PM

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daggerfall unity does that very well

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 6:26 PM

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prime marlin or just play daggrfall unity

True, but I want to use the Fork Of Horripilation on Tharn...

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:26 PM

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arena… i think someones making an arena engine remake aswell

orchid thicket Oct 14, 2021, 6:27 PM

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prime marlin daggerfall unity does that very well

So I've heard, it's on my list

prime marlin Oct 14, 2021, 6:27 PM

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daggerfalls free from bethesda and daggerfall unitys easy to find

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 6:34 PM

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I've been wanting to get into Morrowind Multiplayer honestly but I'm too casul to play without an "always hit" mod.

violet lily Oct 14, 2021, 6:47 PM

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Once I have a streaming pc again I'm going to be starting my first non-god-mode game of Morrowind in like, 15 years 😆

#

because I, too, got annoyed by the RNG in Morrowind, and dying all the time, and really I just wanted to be able to read everything

#

but last year I played through about half of dark souls before I lost my streaming pc, and while testing my planned mod set up for Morrowind I've found that I'm enjoying the challenge of having to level properly again

last vessel Oct 14, 2021, 7:06 PM

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Shock, horror... Playing a game mostly as intended can be... fun?

😛

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If only I could settle on a mod list for anything. 😦

cinder idol Oct 14, 2021, 7:08 PM

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I prefer the Dark Souls thing of being able to hit every time and enemies the same.
I kinda enjoyed the playable lute mod even if the lute has a weird bugged bit of geometry floating. I haven't tried much else, sadly.

violet lily Oct 14, 2021, 8:00 PM

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the mods I play with are mostly Code Patch and then graphical updates like texture upscaling. Once I have a pc that can handle it, I might go and remake some of the mods I know I'd built for myself - just little QoL type things like a storage location and some added Mages Guild teleport sites

last vessel Oct 14, 2021, 8:04 PM

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Hm. For Skyrim I'm split between quest mods and "stop this armour looking terrible" mods.

lavish hearth Oct 17, 2021, 11:03 AM

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Where do I go to submit community suggestions for TES 6?

weak sapphire Oct 17, 2021, 12:53 PM

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Suggestions such as? Community page organization, or mechanics?

lavish hearth Oct 17, 2021, 3:51 PM

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A few ideas, specifically about having the option for dedicated game modes.
I.E a hard mode or hardcore mode(s) that can be started when making your character.
One such example is the hard mode that was available for fallout new Vegas, having a dedicated play through would be much better than the alternative which has been just having a difficulty slider.

nimble pond Oct 17, 2021, 4:32 PM

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Yea increasing hp and enemy damage gets old and isn't necessarily more difficult as it is tediously time-consuming.

cinder idol Oct 17, 2021, 4:39 PM

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Exactly, I want realism and smarter AI, not brainless enemies blessed with giant healthbars by the devs just to be able to get stomach bugs from raw meat.

weak sapphire Oct 17, 2021, 4:42 PM

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Wait, New Vegas had a hard mode?

cinder idol Oct 17, 2021, 5:03 PM

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weak sapphire Wait, New Vegas had a hard mode?

HardCORE Mode, yes.

weak sapphire Oct 17, 2021, 5:06 PM

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Oh, that. Only time i died on it was misjudging a jump... but in general i find it suffered from all thebusual problems

#

As difficulty goes up, numbers shouldn't change. You should be required, as a player, to juggle more things

cinder idol Oct 17, 2021, 5:12 PM

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For me, my limbs break too easy and then I have to limp up the road to Camp McCarran to get them fixed but beyond that it was great as you could tell exactly how hungry you are and could eat or drink or sleep appropriately/ration well instead of instantly losing 1-2 strength points from "being a bit peckish" and not realising it means "hungry enough to be full from eating a fun size candy bar" instead of "bring out the Salisbury Steak" like in Fallout 4. They really need to sort out their version of Hardcore if they're going to put it in ES6...

weak sapphire Oct 17, 2021, 5:13 PM

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Yeah

lavish hearth Oct 17, 2021, 6:19 PM

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Yeah I agree Cruller, they definitely have some opportunities here for some fantastic content in this next game in my opinion.
I’m just trying to rally the community and maybe get my opinion heard by the devs.

weak sapphire Oct 17, 2021, 11:10 PM

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Totally understand there. Most if those conversations are had in this very thread, sk you're mkre than welcome here

orchid vector Oct 18, 2021, 12:58 PM

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I wonder if Talos worship will return.

last vessel Oct 18, 2021, 2:56 PM

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Depends where we are. If we're in Hammerfell there might not be that much of it anyway, and they're not under the Concordat in any case.

orchid vector Oct 18, 2021, 3:00 PM

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In Skyrim it will depend who win the civil war

magic tundra Oct 18, 2021, 3:01 PM

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~~nobody will~~

eager remnant Oct 18, 2021, 3:13 PM

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last vessel Depends where we are. If we're in Hammerfell there might not be that much of i...

Another factor is when the story takes place. If we have another 200-year jump forward in time (or if the game is set in the past) anything is possible.

weak sapphire Oct 18, 2021, 3:13 PM

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Hopefully not. Talos is a Downright Insufferably Caustic Kiddo

orchid vector Oct 18, 2021, 4:17 PM

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Are Talos actually a god or is just a belief?

cinder idol Oct 18, 2021, 4:55 PM

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orchid vector Are Talos actually a god or is just a belief?

Both. The belief is what grants him the strength/godhood to bless those who believe in him, same thing with Daedric Princes. Literally anyone can become a divine with enough people believing in them...

orchid vector Oct 18, 2021, 4:58 PM

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Interesting

weak sapphire Oct 18, 2021, 5:47 PM

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Maybe. Sources conflict somewhat on the actual power of belief in TES.

#

That said, Talos is almost certianly a god, as his blessing protected the Divine Crusader against Umaril, and his avatar is encountered in Morrowind.

#

Plus the whole Blood of a Divine thing in Oblivion... but really, any Dragonborn blood may have worked there.

orchid thicket Oct 18, 2021, 5:54 PM

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I don't think people stopped worshipping him, just they made it illegal to do it publicly. There's a Shrine people still go to in Skyrim iirc in the wilderness

last vessel Oct 18, 2021, 5:58 PM

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But does stabbing an elf count as an act of worship for Talos?

orchid vector Oct 18, 2021, 6:04 PM

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An Altmer, Yes.

wide garnet Oct 20, 2021, 1:27 AM

#

I’ve managed to come up with something for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction and I’d like some opinions:

I’ve said that, after Lorkhan’s heart was cut out of his body, his rebirth (because I believe in the eternal cycle of life, death, and renewal) became kind of… complicated due to how mortals viewed him. Without his heart, he had to rely on the “thoughts of mortals” in order to achieve it. Because of that, his soul/identity was split in two, giving rise to two gods.

Those who viewed him as an evil trickster caused the dark half of his soul to become a “Black God”; those who viewed him as a heroic defender of mortals caused the light half to become a “White God”, who eventually took the name Shor.

——

So what do you think?

tight wave Oct 21, 2021, 9:29 PM

#

Let us have a WTF with what just happened on the NA server?????

harsh crown Oct 21, 2021, 9:31 PM

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tight wave Let us have a WTF with what just happened on the NA server?????

What do you mean?

tight wave Oct 21, 2021, 9:34 PM

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it is ok ... I have moved my issue to the ESO support channel

wide garnet Oct 24, 2021, 1:45 AM

#

I AM wanting an opinion on something I have planned for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

After Maxwell and Matthias deal with the undead in Crestwood, they return to Skyhold to learn that Neloth has been assigned to the Inquisition by House Telvanni “to represent their interests”. I’m also saying that he won’t be happy about it (by that I mean throw a cluster bleep bomb in a dead language) but agree to it.

——

Any opinions?

sour flax Oct 26, 2021, 5:43 PM

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tight wave it is ok ... I have moved my issue to the ESO support channel

For issues related to ESO support, please use the ESO forums located at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories

Elder Scrolls Online

English

lament drum Oct 27, 2021, 2:14 PM

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Where are my fellow Empire supporting Altmer? Imperial City, born and raised. Hunting traitor rebels for most of my days.

dim reef Oct 27, 2021, 10:51 PM

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lament drum Where are my fellow Empire supporting Altmer? Imperial City, born and raised. Hu...

sup

dim reef Oct 28, 2021, 12:00 AM

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kings 👑

sleek mountain Oct 28, 2021, 12:04 AM

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play as stormcloak side once, only feel bad later.

#

I don't care about Imperial vs Stormcloak, but attacking a neutral city like Whiterun is like big nope for me. that's my home damn it.

eager remnant Oct 28, 2021, 12:36 AM

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lament drum Where are my fellow Empire supporting Altmer? Imperial City, born and raised. Hu...

Although I heartily despise all empires, I did once roleplay an Altmer Empire supporter in Oblivion. I used the Alternative Beginnings mod to start her as a squire to Geldall Septim. She felt personally responsible for his death (she was out on the balcony of Septim manor during the attack) and spent the rest of the game redeeming herself in her own eyes by bringing his killers to justice (which was actually a way to make myself play the main quest).

nimble pond Oct 28, 2021, 3:55 AM

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Need Merlin's sword

wanton violet Oct 28, 2021, 6:28 AM

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think whiterun dont really stay neutral, when stormcloak attack, whiterun sided with empire if i remember. also sitting right in middle of a civil war and being a major trade hub for province kinda be a magnet for attention

sleek mountain Oct 28, 2021, 8:39 AM

#

with season unending it still can be neutral afaik

frozen maple Oct 28, 2021, 9:22 AM

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just a general psa: i wouldnt talk about todays news imo

lavish hearth Oct 28, 2021, 10:24 AM

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wide garnet I AM wanting an opinion on something I have planned for my Dragon Age: The Lost ...

I don't remember much from my dragon age days (played them all extensively) but much respect to your fan fiction for sure

wide garnet Oct 28, 2021, 12:12 PM

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lavish hearth I don't remember much from my dragon age days (played them all extensively) but ...

Thank you.

left seal Oct 28, 2021, 6:48 PM

#

I hope 6 makes artifacts feel more competitive, they can never quite match player made enchantments even without exploits,

wanton violet Oct 28, 2021, 6:59 PM

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frozen maple just a general psa: i wouldnt talk about todays news imo

what news? i missed something in real life?

magic tundra Oct 28, 2021, 7:33 PM

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no news yet

wanton violet Oct 28, 2021, 7:41 PM

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something got leaked and rapidly deleted?

magic tundra Oct 28, 2021, 8:00 PM

#

see #content-news

wanton violet Oct 28, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

lol

lament drum Oct 29, 2021, 4:21 AM

#

wanton violet lol

I still don't understand. Are we talking about the horse pictures?

wanton violet Oct 29, 2021, 4:38 AM

#

well, the children like drawing is what i ''loled'' at when i checked it

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 1:11 PM

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Controversial take i know, but i hope TES6 does away with the current way humans are handled, and switches them to an ethnicity+culture set up,

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 1:35 PM

#

Why just with humans?

#

Why not have a Cyrodillic Dunmer set up differently to a Morrowind Dunmer?

magic tundra Oct 29, 2021, 1:44 PM

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A nord is not gonna get fire resistant just because they're living in morrowind...

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 1:49 PM

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Mer have more clearly magical abilities, so one could argue those aren't a result of cultural developments, but Human's having special powers tied to their appearance is a bit uncomfortable, so like instead of Nord automatically equaling Frost resist it would be Born and raised in Skyrim=frost resist,

cinder idol Oct 29, 2021, 1:52 PM

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last vessel Why not have a Cyrodillic Dunmer set up differently to a Morrowind Dunmer?

You mean Morrowind Dunmer are all gravel voiced "You N'wah! Go away, outlander." while those outside of Morrowind are all "Blimey! Me mum did crimes against the queen an' she put 'er on this island that's chockas with dangerous wildlife. I hope me ground harness isn't getting rusty again..."?

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 1:53 PM

#

left seal Mer have more clearly magical abilities, so one could argue those aren't a resul...

Earth Humans aren't quite the same as Tamrielic Humans.

They literally have magical powers as well.

#

The magic resistance on Bretons (although they're half elf), the Imperial ability to calm down even people who are attacking them, the supernatural frost resistance of the Nord, and the supernatural poison resist of the Redguard come to mind; along with the innately known "familiar" spell for all Bretons.

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 1:56 PM

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Doesn't make it any less uncomfortable that for 2 of the last 3 games canon is being Black=being hotheaded but physically gifted, for real if attributes come back please don't ever assign them based on race again, i actually recoil rembering some of the stuff from Morrowind,

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 1:57 PM

#

Why is it more uncomfortable to have it tied to human appearance, and not to, say, the black race of elves being innately able to set fire to everything around them as a "defensive" cloak, or the blonde ones just being better mages than everyone else?

#

Now, I'm not against having a racial category and a cultural category, but having "all <type> elves are fundamentally the same" is bad design if you're making humans split on a culture/race level.

#

Especially when the elves and beastkin are seen as thinly veiled covers for Earth Human stereotypes.

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:03 PM

#

Dunmer are grey/Blue people with red eyes and pointy ears, that is completely different from actual ethnicities that exist in the real world, and yeah there needs to be improvements in the non humans, but again they aren't humans, there are no actual Dunmer, and while yeah them being a combination of Arab/Hebrew/Native Americans is clear, they are also still closer to a dragon then a human in terms of how close they are to real people, yes the khajit need a new accent and their architecture/clothing needs to be changed so the games aren't filled with gross sterotypes veiled behind cat people, but they are still cat people, them being able to see in the dark is different from saying Mediterranean Eruopeons can magically make everyone calm,

eager remnant Oct 29, 2021, 2:04 PM

#

I dislike fixed racial stats for the simple reason that it limits roleplaying. Good roleplaying mechanics should encourage diversity, not enforce uniformity.

magic tundra Oct 29, 2021, 2:05 PM

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it's not like you can't play a different playstyle...

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:06 PM

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eager remnant I dislike fixed racial stats for the simple reason that it limits roleplaying. ...

Agreed, but i am assuming even fixing stuff that comes off as clearly racist IRL will already be an uphill fight, so the idea of completely scrapping the system is a pipe dream to me,

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:06 PM

#

I actually find it more uncomfortable to have a racial group projected onto non-humans and exagerrated, because it makes them more "the other" than if they were a human group. That's more racist.

#

Think about it "everyone that acts this way isn't human".

#

But unless we get a culture/ethnicity split for everyone we're not going to see it.

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:09 PM

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True, but i am talking about gameplay elements, again Kahjit need to be changed to not be based on real world people so blatantly or at the very least not be such an ugly sterotype of them, but again Cat seeing in the dark seems logical,

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:09 PM

#

i see imperials "voice of the emperor" more as an ability to talk people down and calm them down

#

diplomacy/negotiation

#

not as a magical ability

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:10 PM

#

Mid-battle, whilst they're trying to kill you. Instantly calm them without saying more than a word?

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Nah, that doesn't fly.

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:10 PM

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yeah dude havent you seen any movie with those super charismatic dudes?

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:10 PM

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Not as a "natural" ability.

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:11 PM

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nords "battle cry", imo, isnt a mass fear spell, its a literal battle cry

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youre so intimidating that your opponents flee from you

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and orcs enter an extreme adrenaline mode where they barely feel pain, all they can think about is dealing as much damage to the enemy as possible

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:12 PM

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Ah, but that's an elf ability, so that's magically there and they always get that regardless of culture!

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:12 PM

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the dunmeri ability isnt just a flame cloak, its reaching out to your dunmeri ancestors who cloak you in their magic

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:13 PM

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last vessel Ah, but that's an *elf* ability, so that's magically there and they *always* get...

orcs? magical?

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:13 PM

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They are directly tied to a Deadric Prince

eager remnant Oct 29, 2021, 2:16 PM

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left seal Agreed, but i am assuming even fixing stuff that comes off as clearly racist IRL...

In my ideal system, each race would offer, say, 10 racial bonus options during character creation. The player could choose one of these (or none at all). I believe this would retain some of the flavor of present races but still allow for some individuality between characters of the same race.

In addition, I would return to a Daggerfall-esque approach of allowing the player to assign Attributes and bonus skill points during character creation.

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:16 PM

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reef hedge orcs? magical?

Well, when the argument is that Mer abilities are "magical", and thus innate to the race and can't be separated, then that's the conclusion, that Orcish beserk is a magical thing.

But Nordic frost resist? That's entirely cultural...

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:16 PM

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id say "magical" stuff is more like nords frost resist, cause the nordic have always lived in the cold, even before skyrim they lived somewhere much colder, and ice was the prime element for nord wise men

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:17 PM

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Great

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But that's exactly the example Thanatos was using as cultural, not inherent to the race.

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:17 PM

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and i think its inherent to race

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:17 PM

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Because Humans should not be depicted as being magically different based on their race, it's gross,

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:18 PM

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How well do you know the lore of how Men and Mer came to be?

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:18 PM

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why not, its a fantasy world where the difference in races is very real

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:18 PM

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Are you aware that Redguards/Yokudans aren't even from this cycle of the world?

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Are you aware that the Bretons (although "Men") are actually part Mer?

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:19 PM

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who is this directed at Thonk

last vessel Oct 29, 2021, 2:20 PM

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At Thanatos

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:20 PM

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Because no one should be writing that because it's freaking gross, the games have literally decades of racist writing to undo, switching over to the D&D system for actual humans is the least they can do,

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:20 PM

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why should elves have different "types" and not humans?

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 2:21 PM

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reef hedge why should elves have different "types" and not humans?

Because no freaking Dunmer is going to play the game,

reef hedge Oct 29, 2021, 2:21 PM

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its not like mer are the only ones influenced by the magic of mundus

bitter kestrel Oct 29, 2021, 2:21 PM

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This discussion is going nowhere, let's change the topic folks.

cinder idol Oct 29, 2021, 2:24 PM

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True, one last thing I'd like to add is that any race can have different skin colours, at least from Oblivion onward so there's that.

nimble pond Oct 29, 2021, 7:50 PM

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Personally I'm fine with certain things being different or having their own system in-game and lore, not just copying everything from reality and making it digital. Already living in that world.

cinder idol Oct 29, 2021, 10:11 PM

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nimble pond Personally I'm fine with certain things being different or having their own syst...

Same, it could be complicated by going about how the way they're raised and played changes their stats kinda like Obsidian's space RPG but y'know it's fantasy and it's better to know to avoid using fire on a Dunmer or magic in general on a Breton.

nimble pond Oct 29, 2021, 11:11 PM

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👀

left seal Oct 29, 2021, 11:12 PM

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To be fair, most NPCs already don't use any powers, you could just take away the passives as well and say it's like birth signs only certain people have any of it,

left seal Oct 30, 2021, 1:56 AM

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while i am thinking about it, i hope in 6 staves stop being reusable scrolls and are instead used to help magic scale into late game better,

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 4:11 AM

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left seal while i am thinking about it, i hope in 6 staves stop being reusable scrolls and...

Staves are just awful, it'd make sense if they were a means of using advanced or magicka exhausting magic for the magically inept common man or mages who want to let their magicka recharge like a magic self defense weapon but they're always of soul trap, flames or other things pretty much anyone with a brain and even those undead without one can use anyway. Also I just want to bop people and block with a stick.

dim reef Oct 30, 2021, 5:15 AM

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staves seem to be a secondary weapon that you whip out when your magicka depletes

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they're meant to be used by mages, not the magically inept

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 5:20 AM

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If that's the case, why do the stave spells all suck? You might as well just use a potion or punch them instead for all the damage you're doing. It's like attacking someone with a Bic lighter as your flamethrower ran out of fuel.

dim reef Oct 30, 2021, 5:34 AM

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i can't speak for gameplay reasons; i was just stating what the intended use of staves probably is

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 6:00 AM

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My problem is it works for neither party, since Atronach mages have been buffed heavily in Skyrim to the point of the downside being nonexistant.

left seal Oct 30, 2021, 10:55 AM

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I would prefer staves work as tools for the spells the mage already knows, making them scale instead of getting replaced, so instead of fireball doing 50 damage in 25ft it would do damage and effect an area based on destruction skill and your staff, special and legendary staves could have built in spells still or add special effects like staff of Magus building up charge each time you kill an enemy with it equipped it stores energy, and it can use that energy to replace your magica when it's empty,

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 12:05 PM

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cinder idol If that's the case, why do the stave spells all suck? You might as well just use...

Staves behave exactly like spells (just costing charge instead of Magicka), and there's staves for spells up to expert level

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 12:06 PM

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left seal I would prefer staves work as tools for the spells the mage already knows, makin...

Sadly, spell scaling is very limited in skyrim

left seal Oct 30, 2021, 12:32 PM

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I know it's basically limited to a few perks and some head gear, which is why i want staves made into a tool for helping it scale, maybe even use scaling as a way to bring back something that resembles spell making without the game breaking potential, like being able to decide how much scaling goes into each aspect over others, so you can have a fire ball designed to hit a huge area with weak alpha damage but way more DOT and one that's smaller but has way more alpha damage,

potent marlin Oct 30, 2021, 1:46 PM

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I hope TES VI gets more expansions than Skyrim. I would still be buying Dawnguard/Dragonborn tier content if they were releasing it today.

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 1:54 PM

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If you cound Creation Club as expansions, that's quite the ambitious hope 😄

eager remnant Oct 30, 2021, 2:41 PM

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magic tundra Sadly, spell scaling is very limited in skyrim

I would love to see TES VI adopt an approach similar to ESO, where spell damage scales with Intellect. If the traditional attributes don't come back, spells could scale off of Magicka instead. The lack of spell scaling is a gripe I have had with every Elder Scrolls game.

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 2:44 PM

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Yeah, spell scaling sounds nice, with higher skilled characters having a wider array of viable spells.

lavish hearth Oct 30, 2021, 5:12 PM

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potent marlin I hope TES VI gets more expansions than Skyrim. I would still be buying Dawnguar...

If they choose to run the game out for another 11-13 years they just well may.

lament drum Oct 30, 2021, 6:03 PM

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I'm EXTREMELY excited about this new Ghosts of the Tribunal quest they're releasing with the Skyrim Anniversary Edition.

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It also makes me wonder, and I know this is a bit of a broad question, but can we call the creation club items canon? I know it means very different things to people.

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 6:05 PM

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Me too
we are discussing the new Creations at #skyrim-creations

lament drum Oct 30, 2021, 6:05 PM

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Got it thank you!

devout dirge Oct 30, 2021, 6:23 PM

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I just have a quick question/idea for the elder scrolls games and or something to consider. So I have always loved the elder scrolls games they are my favorite rpg series but I am a decent artist too but in the elder scrolls lore and universe there is almost something thing related to magic and power but like in skyrim ur the dragonborn ur pretty powerful but yet the characters we build and play as don't ever look powerful like enchanting armor in the games don't change what or how the armor changes putting a soul into It for more power it just looks the same u don't ever really see the magic in both the armor and weapons and its kinda dull.... like say it were to be possible for the elder scrolls 6 to enchant the armor or weapons and actually have the armor bend to the power of the magic. Like if u were to enchant it with electric damage have electricity zapping all the way through it with glowing blueish colors coming from the sword or even the character like the saying always goes all magic comes at a price or even power so like choices u make in the determine how ur character looks by choices like a vampire lord doesn't even look powerful but like the power comes from a flickin God how are u not able to destroy ur enemies how u want but instead they are super weak and don't make a good end game power and ends up becoming a burden and makes u want to reload ur save before u made that choice but like armor that changes to something that actually looks like it has magic and a soul shoved inside if it to show ur enemies or fans in the game

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how powerful u are or to have horns and glowing red eyes on ur characters because of all the gods weapons and powers u have obtained in ur adventures or to glow with the holy power of akatosh and the other divines like it's magic that surrounds the entirety of Nirn! Or to become a werewolf and have the human form bigger in size and muscle and make the intimidating perks better due to the size or have full on Deadric armor on form different gods and make the npcs scared if the power u behold upon the very being of your character like honestly power is power if u have it like a power hungry corporation u want to show it off and make people both praise the money and power u have but also fear it that's how I feel the elder scrolls should be.... so sorry for the ginormous paragraph but that's what I feel should happen If the elder scrolls 6 or other elder scrolls games should consider the ideas I have proposed

last vessel Oct 30, 2021, 6:24 PM

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There are visual effects around some of the enchanted items, they're just a little subtle.

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And... growing horns and glowing red eyes makes no sense in a lot of cases. You're still a person (whether man, mer, or fur), so growing all of that or glowing isn't really likely.

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 6:30 PM

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devout dirge how powerful u are or to have horns and glowing red eyes on ur characters becaus...

I think you're looking for Fable, honestly. I'd recommend Lost Chapters, 2 and maybe Anniversary, the others suck.

devout dirge Oct 30, 2021, 6:47 PM

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Well I just mean like in skyrim u don't really see the magic at all on the armor when u enchanted it it still looks normal and it's very dull or other abilities the just seem so weak when they are supposed to look strong and powerful

last vessel Oct 30, 2021, 6:48 PM

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There's a little bit of an effect with some of the enchantments, although it isn't crawling with lightning bolts and flames. Possibly because they're distracting after a while, possibly to reduce the amount of load from trying to use that as lighting as well.

magic tundra Oct 30, 2021, 6:52 PM

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there was a mod on Oldrim, SeeEnchs, that added pretty nice effects to enchanted weapons

last vessel Oct 30, 2021, 6:53 PM

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There are a couple on SE that seem to emphasise at least the weapon enchants (since you can see those in first person, and can't see most armour locations in first person).

eager remnant Oct 30, 2021, 7:11 PM

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There was a very noticeable visual effect on enchanted gear in Morrowind and a lot of people hated it. The modding community removed the effect within weeks. Bethesda listened to the criticisms and tried to make the effect more subtle in Oblivion and Skyrim. Personally I think enchantment effects in the later games are more aesthetically pleasing.

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 7:42 PM

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eager remnant There was a very noticeable visual effect on enchanted gear in Morrowind and a l...

Minecraft has the same problem now, with the effect only looking good on Gold and maybe Diamond armour... The glassy look was awful, made everything look like a Christmas tree ornament...

left seal Oct 30, 2021, 8:27 PM

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lament drum It also makes me wonder, and I know this is a bit of a broad question, but can w...

Bethesda operates on a very loose canon, basically anything can be canon to a given entry in a series as long as that entry itself doesn't contradict it,

dim reef Oct 30, 2021, 10:33 PM

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i personally prefer enchanted equipment to have a very minimal distinction aesthetically from non-enchanted gear. because imo that just makes sense. you don't want to go out on the battlefield making it plainly obviously your gear is enchanted, lol

cinder idol Oct 30, 2021, 10:50 PM

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dim reef i personally prefer enchanted equipment to have a very minimal distinction aesth...

Same, it's like the silly bright garish colours of weapon buffs in Dark Souls 2 making your greatsword look like a giant ice lolly, only over literally everything you're wearing as well.

wanton violet Oct 31, 2021, 1:31 AM

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yeah, would be a huge red flag to every bandit to kill you for tons of golds. also like minecraft, i dislike the magic sheen it give item, i want my iron armor to be gray, not purple >.>

cinder idol Oct 31, 2021, 2:57 AM

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Enchanted leather armour is even worse, to the point I don't even enchant them despite having to make new ones every once in a while... Also yes, I'm annoying in that I run around in mostly enchanted gold for aesthetic...

wanton violet Oct 31, 2021, 4:22 AM

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i see gold/mail as the ultimate armor to feel like a rich guy. though technically netherite is now the rarest thing, too lazy and also dont want to annihilate my nether to find some scrap

cinder idol Oct 31, 2021, 5:00 AM

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I like the idea of mail but I think you need a skin that properly fits it otherwise it just looks like bubblewrap. I do wonder what happened to mail in the Elder scrolls, it's vanished in Blades but was in a lot of sets in Oblivion.

wanton violet Oct 31, 2021, 5:11 AM

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mostly used as skin thing for some armor i guess (minus ebony mail who was only mail armor per say?), from what ive seen in my limited eso time, mail seem only to be ''under armor'' kind of thing for plate armor

dim reef Oct 31, 2021, 6:44 PM

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Hello

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Re installing Skyrim. I don't remember the last time I played it. lol

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Where is everybody???

ripe abyss Oct 31, 2021, 6:47 PM

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dim reef Where is everybody???

Boop

dim reef Oct 31, 2021, 6:47 PM

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ripe abyss Boop

Hello

last vessel Oct 31, 2021, 8:55 PM

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dim reef Where is everybody???

I was playing Skyrim. 😛

dim reef Oct 31, 2021, 8:56 PM

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All the mods I wanted to install keep crashing. Ugh!

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I give up adding mods on this game. lol

cinder idol Oct 31, 2021, 9:33 PM

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dim reef All the mods I wanted to install keep crashing. Ugh!

Take it slow, add a few at a time until you find the mod that breaks everything...

dim reef Oct 31, 2021, 9:33 PM

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cinder idol Take it slow, add a few at a time until you find the mod that breaks everything....

I will do that another time.

last vessel Oct 31, 2021, 9:38 PM

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if you're on PC, there are a few tools that can help with identifying the mods that are causing crashes, although I'm not good at interpreting them. NetScriptFramework can produce useful logs as to what was doing what when the game crashed, and if you get repeated crashes in the same area More Informative Console can tell you more clearly what touched a given item last, so that if a particular mod is always causing the crashes you know one component of the problem.

pseudo lark Nov 1, 2021, 6:01 AM

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hello I am having a problem. I bought skyrim special edition and when I play awakening quest in dawnguard.. after I free serena and awakening quest gets completed .. the bloodline quest doesnt start. and when I click on serena to come she says miss me ... etc etc please help bloodline quest is not starting. I have no follower here please help

bitter kestrel Nov 1, 2021, 11:52 AM

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pseudo lark hello I am having a problem. I bought skyrim special edition and when I play awa...

Hello, I would recommend asking this question in #elder-scrolls-support

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 3:45 PM

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I wonder if 6 will have navel combat since Hammerfell and summerset are both big maritime powers,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 3:49 PM

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It's unlikely to go well with the style of ES games, where you're mostly a single adventurer. Even the civil war battles don't go well in Skyrim due to the AI losing its mind.

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*Possibly we might get boarding actions in the same vein as the civil war sieges, but I don't think those went over well enough to make it a priority.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 3:51 PM

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Civil war problems can be attributed to them insisting on using full NPCs for everything, hopefully 6 will do away with that and have normal enemy soldiers/guards ect just be people shaped creatures, in terms of gameplay

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 3:55 PM

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That would be a step backwards in game play. Even creatures are effectively full NPCs - combat AI packages, equipment lists, treasure drops, perks, spells etc.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

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yeah it's a waste o resources for no real benefit, like giving every single item physics, can be seen as a decent trade off, but if you want to try and tell a war story you got to be able to field enough people at once without it breaking the game,

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

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there is no difference between an NPC and a creature...

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

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NPCs have armor,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

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But the point of the game isn't to tell a war story.
It's to do the adventures of the main character.

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

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left seal NPCs have armor,

And so do several creatures. It's just not necessarily droppable.

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For example, Spriggans have shields that have the non-playable tag, so they're not dropped as loot.

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There are a few other cases, but that's one that I spent a week trying to chase down why they were suddenly dropping from every spriggan I killed.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:00 PM

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There armor isn't a muddled piece applied to another model, instead of taking a nord and putting thee storm cloak set on him just make a creature that looks like a nord wearing it but nothing else iss muddled, just by making pants and shirts one piece they dramatically increased the number of NPCs the game could handle, imagine not needing Boots armor helmet gauntlets for the soldiers and gaurds,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:02 PM

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So when you kill this "creature" wearing an all in one armour piece, what happens?
Can you loot his onesie, or does the game have to remove the onesie, and then place the relevant armour pieces in his "dead" inventory?

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Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "making pants and shirts one piece" - that's two separate slots.

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If you mean pants are one slot, shirts are another, that's been the case for at least a couple of games, with (I think) daggerfall being the last to have pants and armoured legs be different slots.

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 4:06 PM

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last vessel Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "making pants and shirts one piece" - that's...

in skyrim, the upper and lower body have been combined into one slot

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are you so sure that the greatest limiting factor is the amount of armor an actor wears?
I'm pretty sure that is just a minor thing

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:10 PM

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No, just like the random thieves who you can't loot, being able to loot dozens of sets of generic guard armor is not a worthwhile trade off for how much space it wastes, they said that merging to two parts greatly increased the number of NPCs they could do, so removing them altogther along with gauntless boots helms the data for what under them ect could be a huge help in letting citties be bigger and more vibrent,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:10 PM

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Huh. I guess I'm thinking of the trousers items that technically use the boots slot.

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But you can loot the "random thieves", and you should be able to - weapons, ammunition, gold, armour etc. It's where you get a lot of your leather gear from.

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 4:11 PM

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I have no idea what you are talking about
there is no trousers item in the game

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I remember them saying they combined upper and lower body because it gave them more designing freedom, and not that it directly increased the amount of actors they could have active at a time

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:12 PM

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Some of the "boot" slot items run up into effectively being trousers as well.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:13 PM

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last vessel But you *can* loot the "random thieves", and you should be able to - weapons, am...

There are random thieves wearing sets of thieves guild armor you can't loot, also pretty sure you can't loot the dark brotherhood gear from the generic assassins you get targeted by sometimes,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:14 PM

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They can however generally be looted. And they still have the armour items behind the scenes, it's just flagged weirdly.

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They're not "NPC shaped creatures with no slots", they have items in those slots, it's just got the not playable (and thus no-drop) flag on it.

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And of course, if all the "generic" soldiers etc don't have the normal armour items on them, where do you expect to get those items from in game?

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Bandits are "generic". Most forsworn are "generic".

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 4:17 PM

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anyway, how are less armor pieces going to help reduce the ammount of AI calculations the game has to make?

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:28 PM

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It won't, my point there was to not have the AI have any possible functions outside the one battle it's used for, so you can ensure it does it's job, no pathfinding oputside of the ones for that specific case, no decisions other than to follow the script,

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you also make sure the environments are designed for it, smooth linear paths the AI has been well tested on,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:36 PM

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So now you have to create more versions of the NPC? You need the guard for city patrols, the guard for out-of-city patrols, the guard for large battles etc.

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And if they have no decisions other than to follow a script, you get them breaking if the player does something unexpected.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:38 PM

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last vessel So now you have to create *more* versions of the NPC? You need the guard for c...

Garuds can do just fine, but for big battles like Skyrimn tried to pull removing all the fluff could help them stay on task,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:39 PM

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Or break them entirely, and mean the AI team now have to make more AI packages and test them.

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 4:39 PM

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that's not how it works

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:39 PM

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They'd be better not doing the large battles, honestly.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:40 PM

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Fans will whine endlessly if they skip the next big war, personally i would be fine having it only as a back drop to a more personal story, but if they do it making sure it goes smoothly is still important,

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:45 PM

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The next big war can be happening without the PC having to be in the middle of it.

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Or rather in the middle of the tiny little battles that are meant to represent the massive sieges.

left seal Nov 1, 2021, 4:54 PM

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People were out for blood over the next war not being a DLC for skyrim, they will lose their minds if it's not a major focus of the next game

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 4:56 PM

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"people" will be pissed regardless

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 4:59 PM

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"People"? So how much of the player base have you asked?

Because some of us more or less skip the entire civil war storyline because it's just bad, and the sieges are terrible.

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They're terrible due to the low numbers on each side - which isn't just an AI problem, it's a "number of actors" problem.

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I'd much rather there not even be a big war in the next game - although that's personal - and have the game set in a period when the province is putting itself back together without a huge civil war rolling through and partially blocking the main quest line.

magic tundra Nov 1, 2021, 5:02 PM

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"people" will hate it if there's no war, "people" will hate it if they make the second great war, "people" will hate it if they simplify the game, "people" will hate it if they make the game more complex, "people" will hate it if they rush the game, "people" will hate it if they take their time with the game, "people" will hate it if the game is set in Hammerfell, "people" will hate it if the game is not set in Hammerfell, "people" will hate it if you can shout, "people" will hate it if you cannot shout, ...

dim reef Nov 1, 2021, 5:36 PM

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Most people would say, you know, "The last one is the most refined." Right? Well. So Skyrim is the most refined, but people will say "Well I prefer Morrowind, I prefer Oblivion, I prefer this" and we say "We made those too, we love those games". They are intentionally different. Whereas people really like Morrowind, it's a very exotic world. But people forget - when Morrowind came out, the Daggerfall fans went "What the f are you doing?" Right? And then Oblivion comes out and the Morrowind fans go "What the f are you doing?" and then Skyrim comes out... So they all are their own thing -Todd Howard Pax East 2019 interview

eager remnant Nov 1, 2021, 5:49 PM

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dim reef Most people would say, you know, "The last one is the most refined." Right? Well...

Yes, true. Many Daggerfall fans hated Morrowind back in 2002. The negativity was so harsh and so constant that I had to stop visiting Bethesda's forums because it was poisoning my love for the game. I returned about the time Tribunal was released. By then tempers had cooled a little and discussions were a little more civil.

Four years later I was one of the ones who hated Oblivion, lol. 😁

last vessel Nov 1, 2021, 5:51 PM

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I disliked Oblivion because of the levelling system feeling like a trap.