#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 46 of 1

nimble pond
#

Can always live with the mutant ants? 🤷‍♂️

#

Anyway, tomato soup. It's what's for dinner. Water, not milk.

feral viper
#

Nice

placid mortar
#

Yeah, abandoned hotels are so much more aesthetic. Come on man they couldn't even get the fountains to work.

nimble pond
#

I was just talking to talk. Was bored and the channel was a lil' slow.

feral viper
#

Fair enough.

lucid coral
#

Me neither. I'm just giving an example how Fallout lets you completely destroy some places unlike TES

feral viper
#

Oof. And people thought the Kurt Kuhlmann interview was worrying. Anyone see the Pete Hines one?

pulsar root
#

Pete Hines can't really be trusted considering how he acted on social media a few years back besides we have to take him at his word and I for one do not.

feral viper
#

He's always been a marketer first, true, and I trust anything he says about as much as I trust anything Todd says. But this puts us 2 for 2 for negative interviews from long time figureheads at Bethesda.

A small sample size, true, but still unusually consistent for the industry.

#

And more concerning when you compare the statement with very clear issues with releases over the last decade.

#

Though my gallows sense of humour finds endless entertainment out of people criticising the very system of affairs they created.

pulsar root
#

I just think its a nothing burger and he has a history of being "abrasive" on social media and that can affect his decision making. Not that gaming communities are always reasonable.

Not that I'm ungrateful for well working on the games but... we need less reactionary, volatile critiques, cause there are definitely critiques to have. But I'll drop it, to avoid battering a former Bethesda employee. I try to keep my paragraphs shorter now >_>

timid drum
#

:o no long paragraphs from you or Terical now? How am I supposed to get the enrichment while in a boring college class? Lmao

feral viper
#

I'll still assault your eyes with walls of text, don't worry.

timid drum
#

Woooo not all is lost lmao. I enjoy reading the mass paragraphs about the elder scrolls. Tho I'm just a nerd lol

feral viper
#

I am endeavouring to be more collected and constructive. At this point I have serious concerns about TES, and Bethesda, but my goal in the future is to focus more on how to improve, rather than just pointing out shortcomings.

#

Unless I've hit the rum, in which case who knows what'll happen.

timid drum
#

Ahh gotcha, still it'll be interesting. I feel like there will always be something that can be improved with any game.

feral viper
#

Oh absolutely. Perfection doesn't exist. All we can do is ever seek to improve.

timid drum
#

Indeed, and that's where mods come in

#

If my degree falls short, I'll just become a youtuber who makes mods; problem solved lol

feral viper
#

Lol, that's what I should have done.

#

Instead, I listened to my parents when they said 'That YouTube thing will never catch on'

timid drum
#

Ahhh yeah, i'm a computer science major so we'll see.

lucid coral
#

They may not creatively meddle anywhere but it's clear overall management wasn't the best

#

Hopefully now they'll improve given the recent shift in Xbox leadership

pulsar root
feral viper
#

I dunno. I think their recent products could have used some meddling.

lucid coral
#

Well. Given how SF turned out maybe they should've done a lil creative meddling

feral viper
#

Every once in a while, meddling works.

Loom at Anthem. The only reason the game had Flying (arguably the best part) was because of EAs meddling. Bioware wanted it only to be in cutscenes.

lucid coral
#

Even down to the small decisions.
Like the AK.

Why in Azura's name does the AK have no stock...

pulsar root
feral viper
#

Generally, yeah. I do agree.

lucid coral
#

Which is funny. Because they were probably the one studio that could've actually used more meddling

pulsar root
#

Part of me thinks they were but thats my gaming conspiricy theory 🎩

feral viper
#

We know the flying was from the EA executives.

They had an early showcase, and showed a cutscene where you fly in, and then start the mission on the ground. The exec asked why he couldn't fly himself, and then criticised the game when he was told it was just for the cutscenes.

#

A minor victory, of course, since Anthem was...

Well, Anthem made Starfield look well thought out.

lucid coral
#

It had good combat ig

pulsar root
#

A rare time an executive(love to know the source of that) said something smart.

feral viper
#

Well, I'm not sure if SMART is the right word.

lucid coral
#

If only they started meddling before maybe they wouldn't have made Anthem at all

feral viper
#

But definitely 'not stupid'

lucid coral
#

They had issues dating all the way back to DA2's time. Favoritism, direction issues, the so called Bioware magic

feral viper
#

Yeah the whole... Story of Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem is a fascinating one. But not something for here.

lucid coral
#

The funny thing is the devs actually hoped DAI would fail and EA would take note and do something about all the issues the studio was facing.

Unfortunately it became their best selling game ever

#

Suffering from Success 😭

feral viper
#

The Bethesda problem

sharp narwhal
#

Guys I'm new here where can I leave Elder Scrolls 6 demands

astral hollow
#

Ask Jdmdreki

primal torrent
#

You're free to speak about ES6 and things you'd like to see, without venturing into any kind of speculation, misinformation, or demands.

#

This channel would likely be the best place.

sharp narwhal
#

Got it thank you

astral hollow
dim reef
#

🟥 Bethesda's next games NPC's should be more realistic and interactive.

Modding community has for years made mods that enhanced life simulator aspects in SKYRIM and OBLIVION and FALLOUT games. Such features are in demand and greatly would increase immersion and make the world feel more alive.

Baldur's Gate 3 only lets players form bonds with select few NPC's. Elder Scrolls IV being fantasy sandbox should try aim for Player NPC relationship system that touches all NPC's.

Similar to Sims games, players should be able to form relationship with any NPC's through dialogue choices. Becoming enemies, friends or even lovers and get married.

For example: player can befriend general goods store clerk and then outside business hours ask them out to go for nature hike, drink and get drunk in tavern, fishing, combat spar, go hunting. And these activities would increase or decrease relationship status.

Romancing needs upgrade, no more loading screens but instead let players visibly cuddle, hug and kiss their companions, cook food together, or sit by campfire and have random casual conversations. Imagine coming home after questing and for your partner to give you massage or nurse your wounds all with animations and dialogue.

Since its likely that many NPC's will be using same voice actor again, reusing lines for player NPC relationship system is okay, since not every single npc is going to have their own voice actor.

glass marlin
#

idk I feel like Fallout would be a better inspiration for followers in ES6 than Baulder's Gate or especially the Sims. lol

pulsar root
glass marlin
inland shale
#

Miraak and Partysnacks can come back, but bethesda cant help themselves killing the cool characters

nimble pond
#

I'm happy as long as I can blow stuff up.
Maximum carnage, "Red Faction style."

And a bit more gore to combat. I'm sorry, but there's just a special kind of fulfillment as you slice an enemies arm off and the sound of their scream. Ah. Zen. 😌

I realize the combat gore part will not happen, but I can dream.. or mod!

And I'm totally down for TESVI "Black Flags" edition if it means I can blow ships up too!

#

On another note..
Synergy!
I love that stuff when you hit your enemy with one type of damage and then another type for maximum effect. Whether you are doing it all on your own or with a companion/follower.

glass marlin
pulsar root
#

"Somehow... Miraak returned...."

astral hollow
#

I'm fantasy, People who pass on from magical means can usually return

#

Like in Buffy the vampire Slayer

#

Miraak was slain by the mystical Daedric Prince Hermaeous Mora

nimble pond
astral hollow
#

There were a bunch of developers online a few minutes ago. They are lurking

#

Talls posted that in off topic as well

nimble pond
#

Deja vu

astral hollow
#

Most of the moderators aren't available right now, but at least we have some developers watching

nimble pond
#

Partysnax would make a fine general.

astral hollow
#

Partysnax would be an epic general

nimble pond
#

Miraak, I wouldn't know what to do with besides a summon. But meh, leave him in Skyrim. Maybe Mora will turn him into a nice pet in his realm?

#

But if ever bringing back villains, I'd prefer they come back not the same, but transformed and stronger than before. Like Ganondorf to Ganon.

wide garnet
# glass marlin Why would Miraak come back? He's a villain we kill off.

I’ve actually got something planned for Miraak in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Due to the Anchor interacting with an Elder Scroll, entirely new Limnal Bridges have formed between Aetherius, Oblivion, Thedas, and Mundus (but they’re much too small for anyone like Mehrunes Dagon to use). Discovering this, Miraak slips his bonds (also due to the Veil becoming a lot thinner due to the opening of the Breach) and returns.

For now, he’s siding with Corypheus while also secretly plotting to betray him and seize the Throne of the Gods for himself. However, the way Miraak slipped his bonds and escaped Apocrypha triggers a failsafe that Herma-Mora placed in him once he began noticing Miraak’s plotting, thus leading to a there can be only one “feedback loop” between him and Matthias (my Dragonborn).

inland shale
lucid coral
#

Miraak definitely can't come back. We literally absorb his soul

#

He's DEAD dead

nimble pond
#

He's no Sephiroth, that's for sure

nimble pond
#

So if someone slays the last dragonborn or he just eventually dies. Does that mean all the souls he absorbed explode out of him like a fireworks display?

hallow coral
#

ldb will probably cease to exist once his jobs fully over

#

those souls i suppose go to aetherius or back to akatosh directly or up my bum who knows

#

or worse, the souls return to the dragons

lucid coral
#

Sovngarde, Hunting Grounds, Moonshadow etc

feral viper
# dim reef 🟥 Bethesda's next games NPC's should be more realistic and interactive. Moddin...

RIGHT. Time to catch up

I actually agree. At least in principle. The execution is a little more complicated, of course.

Bethesda at least claims to make living worlds (they absolutely do not) and the people in a world are a major component of its life.

We're coming to the point where there are more options in developing these sorts of characters and interactions. And this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that gamers have always wanted AI to be used for.

#

NPC interaction and behavior is one of the things that has pretty universally been left by the wayside in games.

You get one of two approaches. Having only a handful of hand crafted NPCs that work and move in prescribed way, but lack adaptability or scale.

Or drones wandering around in crowds that have all the volume but none of the life.

And neither of these options are good.

#

While I still think that combat is the most essential system they needs a massive overhaul, NPCs and NPC behaviours are second place. Because as it stands, Bethesda's settled environments are going the way of Rockstar, and that is not a good direction.

pulsar root
#

The idea of absorbing souls is also kinda weird to me. Not that teenager me cared about such a concept back in 2011 >.>

feral viper
#

Souls are like Lego. The more you snap on the bigger you get.

#

Regarding NPCs, I have long supported what I call the 3 Ps.

Persistence; no despawning NPCs they have to physically go somewhere.

Personality; No blank slate 'UC Citizens'. They have to have SOME kind of identity.

Purpose; They can't just be wandering aimlessly to fill out space. Jobs, activities, a reason to be there.

#

TES has traditionally played around with these 3 things, but Bethesda seems to have lost the plot since Skyrim. It wants to go bigger, but constantly sacrifices these things in order to do so.

#

My minimum goal, keeping these in mind, would be:

Persistence: Every NPC has a place to go. Even if it's just a bed in a boarding house. At no time will they respawn, unless killed, or they have some relevant reason to leave the game-space. This doesn't mean they will always be active in game memory, but that's a whole other topic.

#

Personality: Every NPC should meet certain minimum criteria. A Name, direct relations, a job or role in the world, and maybe a social interest or two. This is where Radiant AI, and more Sims-Like systems (which we know exist and function) is more important.

There are AI focused generative options here, but you don't even need AI to achieve this. I literally mathed out how to achieve this using VAs and pre-written filler text years ago, allowing for literally hundreds of thousands of individual identities.

#

Purpose: Again, this is where Radiant AI could have had a function. Having blocks of activities divided into groups, with Jobs, Leisure, Social, and Subsistence activities being triggered for NPCs based on their procedurally generated identities.

The key, with any sort of procedural system, is having enough options in the draw pool to make it worthwhile. If everyone's schedule is always get up, go to work, go home, eat dinner, sleep... It's not going to do the job.

lucid coral
#

Issue is as the citizen count increased the variety of activities they did started reducing. Starfield especially suffers from this. All the unnamed npcs just feel kinda eh

feral viper
#

And this isn't just a trend in NPCs, it's been a trend in a lot of aspects of Bethesda's games.

Combat (in harping in combat a lot lately) for instance, has gotten progressively worse from Skyrim's 'Functional'.

#

Big Scanbo energy

nimble pond
#

I think for the most part, Bethesda just likes to experiment. If it gets good reception like the building stuff, they expand it. If it doesn't, like the player voice thing in Fallout, they drop it.

feral viper
#

They used to, sure.

Now, I don't see that. They only read when they get a bad reception. If it's passive, or positive, they just keep doing the same thing.

#

The building thing is a prime example. What we've gotten is less improvements of the system, and more just bug fixes.

Hell, in some ways it's gotten worse. The Caravan System in FO4 beats the pants off the Cargo Link system in Starfield. And even then, it's not actually GREAT, but at least it's usable.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

Radiant AI was arguably the most praised feature in Oblivion. It was lobotomised in Skyrim, and virtually non-existent now. Best we get is wandering pathfinding.

lucid coral
#

76 has been getting better in that regard. The building in that game is fantastic

feral viper
#

Experimentation is great. It's one of the things the industry needs a lot more of.

But the POINT of it is to find new, better ways to do things. If you just keep refining the same old tools, you're missing out on potential solutions that do way more. If we just kept using screwdrivers, we wouldn't have Power Drivers which can screw, drill, ratchet, etc all better.

#

And if you never do anything with those new discoveries, then the discovery is a wasted effort.

#

Like, Bethesda has lots of great elements in their games. But they're crude, unrefined and need a lot of polish.

They have way more potential than the systems widely in use in other games, but as they stand, their raw state leaves them as vastly inferior.

#

And if you're never going to refine those innovations to the point where the compete with the baseline, why bother innovating at all? All you're doing is commuting to an inferior product for no reason.

#

As it stands, across the last 15 years of games, Bethesda has enough bits and bobs to assemble a truely iconic, truely genre redefining RPG.

Even without stepping outside of their own products (if they pull in a few other influences it'd be even better, but that's another topic) they continue to hover on the threshold of greatness.

But for one reason or another, they never seem to reach for it.

pulsar root
nimble pond
#

Ngl, all these problems or criticisms I read here on the daily, I wasn't really aware of until after reading someone saying it here. Like I remember playing Skyrim and only thing on my mind that I really disliked about it was the bugs, but especially the ones that break quests or vanish your stuff, and basically you feel forced to have to reload a previous save if you want to do it on the same playthru or doing a completionist run. And that's just not fun when it's a big game like that messing with your accumulated progress and personal time. Smaller games it's manageable.

feral viper
#

There's definitely an element of 'Ignorance is Bliss' to it.

If you aren't really thinking about things, and just going with the flow or enjoying your playthrough, a lot of these problems aren't going to immediately jump out at you.

#

It's only when you are looking for, or expecting something else that they're often up front. And if they aren't, it often takes sitting back and examining something with a critical eye to bring them out..

nimble pond
feral viper
#

Totally fair.

#

Here's some constructive input with specifics though.

Decorating needs to look at WoW's housing and decor for inspiration in the system.

#

The actual control interface for decorating in FO4 onward is... Really not great.

WoW's new system in its housing, however, is amazing.

#

Being able to more precisely control all 3 axis of rotation, object elevation, scaling, etc.

It would go a long way to making decorating enjoyable rather than fiddly.

lucid coral
#

76 improves on it even more with the free cam mode

feral viper
#

I've got pretty extensive time in both, and WoWs is simply better. Which is surprising, given it's an MMO and all.

#

Bethesda's system lacks precise rotational control, no-clip placement, object scaling, etc.

hallow coral
feral viper
#

It's not even a matter of not enjoying it. Because, with the notable exception of Shattered Space (which was legitimately terrible) I have enjoyed everything Bethesda has put out.

Yes. Including Oblivion

#

It's more a matter of seeing what COULD be, and then having that potential consistently squandered.

lucid coral
#

The blue print system is by far the best feature there because i can simply save something i made and put it on some other structure without having to redo it.
Idk why Starfield doesn't have it

#

It'd be so much more intuitive if you could just blueprint certain ship designs for example

feral viper
#

It has admittedly been some time since I played 76, so I may be misremembering.

It's shocking just how much worse Outposts and decorstion are in Starfield.

feral viper
#

Like... And I make this complaint frequently, YOU CAN'T EVEN PLACE DOORS.

You have absolutely zero control over the layout of your ship, and are at the whim of the algorithm. Want a second deck? Well hope you like random ladders in the middle of rooms, because it may decide to give you one.

Imagine you're building a house, and you just place the rooms down and the doors between them appear at random. Maybe you wanted the bathroom at the end of the main hall, but oops: The door is into the kitchen because the two rooms are next to eachother.

#

And this sort of thing is part of what I mean by what COULD BE. Bethesda always has the glimmer of brilliance (something most studios lack, truth be told) but there's always these nagging little details that prevent their games from achieving that brilliance.

hallow coral
#

i swear this conversaation has been going for like 3 days

feral viper
#

You should have seen the forum days. Conversations over weeks

feral viper
#

My overall point being, Bethesda has a lot of fantastic tools they've already developed. Radiant AI, Skyrim's Perks, Fallout 4s Dialogue, Starfield's shipbuilder (which could be fantastic for building medieval structures and castles), and so on.

But they need refinement to really shine.

#

It doesn't matter how innovative your sword is, if it's dull.

#

Combat is about the only system I think needs a total group up rework.

timid drum
#

You mean you don't like the lag when using the power move of werewolves? Or the lag in general with power attacks lmao

feral viper
#

The problems run way deeper than that.

timid drum
#

I know, was being saracastic :p

feral viper
#

Hah, ok. Fair.

timid drum
#

I do agree that there could be an essay about the combat issues.

feral viper
#

I think a great highlight of it, is in looking at Unconscious enemies.

#

Twice, Bethesda has tried to approach the idea of knocking enemies out. Using unarmed attacks to deplete stamina in Morrowind, and using EM weapons in Starfield.

And both cases have highlighted a major underlying problem with the way the game handles combat and enemy states.

#

In Morrowind, and unconscious enemy was still flagged as alive, for obvious reasons. So you could never get credit for competing a task by knocking enemies out, rendering it basically useless.

Starfield does the opposite, and flags the target as dead. So outside of every specific scripted situations, the game will assume you killed everyone which can of course have negative consequences.

In both cases, there's no actual useful distinction being made on the games end. Because it's only recognising Alive or Dead states.

#

This is because there's no actual underlying way to track these behaviours, or interact with anything but a bimodal value. It's Alive or it's Dead, and nothing in between.

#

Which in face value, seems like something easy to fix. But when you really start to consider how to trigger different states naturally, and how to engage with them, things get more complicated.

And you start to realise that the entire basis of how HP, Damage, Armour and so on; is handled is actively impeding development there.

#

Now, while I am verbose in the extreme, I DO subscribe to KISS when it comes to design. A well designed system should fit 3 qualities.

1: Preforms the desired task or tasks

2: Is not burdened with superfluous functions.

3: Is not actively or passively hostile to the user.

KISS means any well designed system should be as simple as possible WHILE still performing the desired functions.

#

In the case of combat, even at the surface level when we look at Unconscious enemies, it's clear the system is failing the 1st point.

So it's time to re-examine it.

nimble pond
#

So, the Dwemer.. I think it'd be nice if they brought them back to life, but..
by using scattered hologram 3D recorders around their ruins (like seen in Promotheus). Some kind of tech like that, but in it's own medieval fantasy form.

pulsar root
#

I think that would only be accepted so long as there are no answers to where they went(Since that seems to be what Todd wants to)

sharp narwhal
#

There should be Dwemer inspired firearms in ES6

feral viper
#

Nah. If there are to be firearms, make them Redguard.

Don't tap the Dwemer well so much. It becomes tacky.

sharp narwhal
#

Overall technology in the elder scrolls we should just have some firearms

feral viper
#

Especially since the Redguard already have our only actual references to cannons and gunnery

sharp narwhal
#

Oh perfect

feral viper
sharp narwhal
feral viper
#

If done properly, I think it could be a good mechanic inclusion too.

But that drags us back to combat

nimble pond
#

There could be some cool projectile tech using the Dwemer technology. Redguards could have more sniper-like tech.

feral viper
#

I would prefer if the Dwemer went more into Steampunk Magitech, rather than just tech. But that's a personal taste thing.

In general, I think the Dwemer have been done dirty so...

lucid coral
#

Gotta maintain the aesthetic sadly. Can't go too high tech

#

Tho recently we have gotten some cool dwemer stuff like the mounts in ESO or the dwarven horse CC

tardy tiger
lucid coral
#

Hell go one step further and might as well add dwarven power armor

feral viper
tardy tiger
#

If only TES was consistent.

feral viper
#

Consistently inconsistent

pulsar root
#

Dwemer are fine as they are so long as anything we learn about them are just bits of pieces not answers to where they have gone.

noble verge
#

We already have a potential answer.

feral viper
#

A couple.

noble verge
#

My favorite is that they End of Evangelion'd themselves.

feral viper
#

That's a fun way to put it.

jolly badge
nimble pond
nimble pond
jolly badge
pulsar root
#

Yeah its an old meme

astral hollow
#

Any other funny memes?

pulsar root
#

"You're finally awake"

astral hollow
#

Slowly uses dragonborn powers....

*I am able to clear the fog from the area, and I find a cave with an ancient pirate scroll in a bottle, with a pirate ship

I find out from the scroll that there is a great curse on the cave for the ghost pirates to haunt this cave.

I try to talk to the wandering ghosts in the cave, I roll a 12 on charisma and they act aggressive and chase me out of the cave.

I go to a merchant in a nearby town and ask her about the scroll, and she takes it from me looking surprised and say that it is a very rare find but that she loves collecting stuff like insects in jars, gemstones and jewelry. I tell her she can keep it and she is enthused by this and shows me her collection of insects in jars.

I bid her farewell, and consider her a new found friend.

I make my way to a Khajiit Caravan where I ask to join them on their travels.

I roll a 20, and they are happy to let me join them, so I make my way to Elseweyr. Alassi

nimble pond
#

I feel like there are Kangaroos in Elsweyr. With incredible unarmed damage. The Werearoos even more deadly.

timid drum
#

I would love for that to be a thing.

nimble pond
#

Maybe we can finally sleep too. Not just a timeskip. But actually be able to get into the bed in first or third person. Maybe snore a bit or experience dreams/nightmares. Maybe pickup a unique follower from dreamworld.

pale mica
#

Hi

solid canyon
#

They should bring back some of the beast races for TES VI as they were done dirty in not being included in addition to the argonians and khajit in Skyrim. What do you guys think of these ideas?

#

every day i think about how badass it would be if TES VI allowed us to choose certain pathways and storylines depending on our decisions from Skyrim, even if one has never played Skyrim. During character creation, you get a questionnaire of things like "Skyrim Civil War:
-Stormcloak Victory
-Imperial Victory
-War is at a neutral standstill to deal with the Thalmor threat"

#

Then more like
-Spared Paarthurnax
-Killed Paarthurnax
And even including the Dragonborn asking
-Werewolf
-Vampire Lord
-Stayed human and ascended demigodhood joining Talos, known simply as Last Dovahkiin or something like that
Dark Brotherhood quest line or DB eliminated creating a vengeful group of assassins playing by their own rules searching for the Night Mother
Thieves' Guild quest line which only has one outcome, so they're in every hold and have em all in their grip, giving way to a new option of joining the hidden rulers of Skyrim or silently eliminating them one hold at a time via either assassination or getting proof of the members and turning them in to the guards

#

Basically all the main quests we as players do the most of the time in all our playthroughs.
And for the love of GOD, grant damage increase with destruction spells beyond the augmented ones so legendary difficulty doesn't require billions of destruction elixirs.

lucid coral
#

It's called the.. uh.. 2nd walking way i think? Every hero becomes a god at the end of their respective main quests because of their actions

pulsar root
#

I'd spare Paar(Dragon dude) but Delphine gets cranky at me. But I usually stop the blade quests right there.

timid drum
#

Console commands to remove Delphine, or a mod, either way, Parrthunax is a legend, none shall kill him

astral hollow
timid drum
#

Exactly

pulsar root
#

I think paranoid would be a better answer that is of course Bethesda doesn't pull anything. The real crime is sort of being hardlocking your progress where you have no choice but to listen to her, and if not your quest progress stops.

tardy tiger
#

Is it Paranoia if they are out to get her?

nimble pond
# timid drum Console commands to remove Delphine, or a mod, either way, Parrthunax is a legen...

Same. As soon as the Blades tell me to slay Partysnax, I drop their butts immediately, like hell no, I'm never going to do that. Blades can go F themselves. And I like Ohduh, and the undead Dragon as well, we buds. And actually Alduin too, but we never get an option to be anything but hostile with him.

I feel like there really should of been another option in the Blades quest available regarding Partysnax or dragons in general, but they didn't write it in.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

I think it's more a question of whether or not she has good reason to believe they are your to get her.

hallow coral
#

the irony is that even though we all collectively despise the idea of killing paarthurnax and find delphine either mildly annoying or at the opposite end of the spectrum completely insufferable

#

she isnt even wrong, killing paarthurnax is justice

pulsar root
#

I can respect Delphine to a point but but usually its because Paarthurnax already helped me and such and he isn't trying to kill me, it just feels wrong. Having said that... I think if there was a more personal story between the two I could justify Delphine more.

astral hollow
noble verge
#

What bothers me is how she treated the Septim Emperors' decision to leave him alone as a bad thing that went against their mission.

feral viper
#

Originalists are truely terrible Ideologues.

#

Times change, Grandma. You don't need to kill dragons just because your great great great great great great great great grandpappy did.

noble verge
#

Also bears mentioning that the Blades are descended from a group of Dragonguard that, following the organization's fragmentation, chose not to involve themselves in dragonslaying even when another group of Dragonguard was reorganizing for that purpose.

#

The Greybeards even allowed one of the Chevalier Renald's Dragonguard to study with them and learn the Thu'um.

pulsar root
#

Feels like any Dragon slaying group isn't really necessary at least not when dragons where dominant in Tamriel.

hallow coral
#

most of what we see in terms of the reorganization of factions in TES tend to be devolutions of their original values anyway, but morally speaking fighting dragons loyal to alduin is right given eso established the existence of an ancient ongoing battle between the forces of akatosh and alduin thru history; so its basically fighting on behalf of the big kahuna himself against what is basically an apocalyptic death cult

#

but obviously dragons most of the time are just acting upon their nature which is why imo ppl myslef included r inclined to sympathize with paarthurnax - then u realize the daedra are just acting upon their nature too and they don't get the option to break that nature

feral viper
#

Fighting for one tyrant against another isn't really the moral highground.

tardy tiger
#

I'm sure the Blades will find a new job anyway that the High-Count of Cyrodiil might be destroyed/retconned.

#

By TES10 they'll be Daedric Princes

feral viper
#

The Blades are like that guy who gets work through a Temp Agency in a sitcom, and has a new job every episode.

tardy tiger
#

What job will they steal next week?

lucid coral
hallow coral
# feral viper Fighting for one tyrant against another isn't really the moral highground.

okay but its not like akatosh cults are close in comparison and the morality of "serve a death cult" vs "dont serve a death cult" is clear cut enough. the blades for all their faults are not wrong (from a mortal perspective) in the suggestion that alduin n all other dragons that serve him should die - paarthurnax is down to individual judgment ofc though

nimble pond
#

It seems like the Blades themselves were turning into a death cult. Even if the rest of the Dragons followed PartySnax and his relationship with the Grey Beards on the Thu'um, I could still see the Blades being a bloodthirsty death cult towards them. Possibly even future attacking the LDB and Grey Beards for considering them to be committing treason.

hallow coral
#

meh i cant rlly see that happening imo

tardy tiger
#

They're not really a death cult.

At most they were tied to Dragonborn and now that job is done so they're free to do whatever they want.

noble verge
#

I'm hoping there's other surviving Blades out there are more concerned about working against Thalmor than dealing with a few bigger Argonians dragons.

#

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some hiding out in Hammerfell.

final mauve
#

Need help coming up with a last name for my Elder Scrolls Online male imperial, named Maximilian.

tardy tiger
#

Agrippa?
Belisarius?

feral viper
#

Maximilian Decimus Meridius. Brother to the father of a murdered daughter, and brother to the husband of a murdered wife. And son of an unoriginal pair of parents.

final mauve
#

lol

#

are you not entertained???

feral viper
hallow coral
#

decimus meridius maximus decimus maximus meridius decimus meridius maximus decimus maximus meridius

wide garnet
hallow coral
# wide garnet You trying to tie your tongue or something?

its referencing this gem from 2012 https://youtu.be/nx0Lpjm5xcE?si=-j0hJ3_2lSWDEY2W

YouTube
e7edit
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius Decimus Maximus Meridius Decimu...

General introduces himself.

http://youtu.be/EexUiCycxuc ← Commodus responses!

It's a long name and he needs 10 hours to pronounce it. The director's cut. 9:59:40 to see the emperor's reaction.

See the "10 hours Playlist":
http://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL83B5DE88700B1D1D

Clips are from the movie "Gladiator", directed by Ridley Scott.

▶ Play video
wide garnet
primal olive
#

ngl if i had access to modding I'd make a mod that replaces the west of skyrim with falmer society in a grand overhaul

pulsar root
#

Baby steps first, acknowledging they aren't as exterminated as much as Tamriel first thinks. Not that I believe Bethesda will do that ._.

feral viper
noble verge
#

I'm pretty sure one of the first things the Aldmer did when settling Summerset was enslaving the local goblins, so the notion that they're not people is probably one of the oldest ideas in Tamriel.

noble verge
#

As for Bethesda themselves, I consider it pretty telling that in Skyrim, we not only get to befriend (or at least command) the Rieklings, but in some of the Anniversary content, we run into a goblin who somehow became the champion of a Daedric Prince- and get them as a companion.

nimble pond
#

Do you think they'll ever write an ending where, we the player, obtain godhood becoming the 10th Divine? Of course, there would be no concrete evidence and it would appear more as myth in future games in the in-game book stories.

lucid coral
#

It's called the 2nd walking way iirc. Your actions as a hero makes you a god at the end of the main questline

nimble pond
#

I know, I meant like officially the 10th Divine tho?

lucid coral
#

It is official

#

Godhood in TES is goofy like that

nimble pond
#

Ah

lucid coral
#

Like for example. Ysgramor isn't worshipped by anyone but he's a god too

nimble pond
#

Like on the same level as the Aedra?

lucid coral
#

Ye

#

They're all gods

feral viper
feral viper
# lucid coral They're all gods

Or none of them are.

The Dwemer were right. Gods aren't real, they're just people with bigger sticks pretending to be gods

lucid coral
feral viper
#

No, they got a first hand example of a reactor melting down.

Power does not equate to Godhood. Not being able to successfully harness a power source also doesn't mean that power is limited to gods.

lucid coral
#

Jokes aside. Godhood is more just a term for the state people achieve when they walk the walking ways.
It's definitely not the same as we see it irl

feral viper
#

The Dwemer seemed to subscribe more to what we could consider the Classical Definition of a god.

And in that case the Aedra and Daedra do not qualify.

lucid coral
#

Ye. Definitely. Their view was certainly unique. But as we know TES godhood is more like a state of being. Like myths or stories

feral viper
#

Well, maybe. We aren't actually sure WHAT it is, only that there appear to be different things that qualify for the wider social and cultural definitions.

lucid coral
#

It's why we mantle concepts. Nerevarine mantling Nerevar, HoK mantling the Divine Crusader etc.

feral viper
#

It's not like, say, D&D where what makes one a god is clearly defined.

lucid coral
feral viper
#

The Nerevarine was an Incarnation, not a Mantle.

lucid coral
#

It's left vague but I'm considering the possibility of if he isn't the real incarnate

#

Then by passing the trials he mantles Nerevar and becomes Nerevarine

#

If he's already an incarnate then sure. No need to mantle anymore

feral viper
#

Per the quote:

Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you

lucid coral
#

Oh there's also the Tribunal.
They mantled the 3 good daedra but didn't replace them as is usually the case. Instead they became sort of like successors

feral viper
#

This has always been a pet peeve of mine, because it's very clear the Nerevarine never 'achieved' anything.

You ARE the Nerevarine.

lucid coral
#

Eh. MW leaves it vague. It's ESO that sort of muddled it by making it seem you're fixed to be the Nerevarine

#

The fixed chosen one thing was introduced Oblivion onwards. Cos' in MW even the Emperors were straight up called reincarnations of Tiber Septim than having some weird hereditary dragon blood

#

Which Skrim then soft retconned into being Akatosh's blessing rather than hereditary

feral viper
#

Prophecy isn't a checklist to fill out, it is a prediction of future events.

I'd even say ESO makes this more explicit, as Azura straight up tells you Chodala isn't the Nerevarine, and that they will come later.

lucid coral
#

Hell. In MW even a guy who had zero knowledge of the prophecies somehow became a failed incarnate because he died fighting ash creatures.
That's how vague it was

#

The requirements were relatively open

feral viper
#

The entire position of becoming the Nerevarine relies on a single line from Nibani Maesa. Who isn't the source of the prophecy, and doesn't even have access to all the prophetic literature.

The Prophecy details how you will know who the Nerevarine is, not how one can become the Nerevarine through effort.

lucid coral
#

Like. You won't know if you're nerevarine unless you either prove it by passing the trials or mantle it

feral viper
#

No, the others were false, they were incarnates who were NOT the Nerevarine.

Like how you can use white flour in pancakes, but using white flour doesn't make a pancake bread.

lucid coral
#

They were NOT the nerevarine because they failed the trials by dying.
But what if they hadn't died?

#

There's no way to directly check like in Skrim/Oblivion if either of them were the incarnate or not.

feral viper
#

Destiny doesn't deal in what ifs. That's sort of its whole schtick

lucid coral
#

It did in MW. Oblivion then made it absolute.

feral viper
#

Nah, people just have bad interpretive lenses and try to twist things to fit their own narratives.

#

ESO takes this even further by eliminating the possibility of free will entirely for everyone.

lucid coral
#

Eitherway. Whatever happened with the nerevarine. He does become a god by the end

#

A more clearer example of mantling would be the Tribunal then

#

There's no room for doubt there. They mantled the 3 good daedra

#

Oh there's Sheo's mantling too. Even tho SI kinda handles it poorly

tardy tiger
#

Morrowinds a weird case in that you can say that the failed incarnates were never the Nerevarine.
Even the Lost Prophecy messes with them.

#

Though it's kinda funny how the Moon and Star ring ends up being pointless despite being rather needed to prove that the player isn't another person faking it

lucid coral
#

Because Azura or the prophecy doesn't say it'll kill anyone who's not Nerevar. It's just what the ashlanders believe

tardy tiger
#

The issue is Morrowind as a culture can speak to the long dead and has long lived people or gods.

A rumour can't work well when you can actually speak to people who was around them. Also includes the Living gods.

lucid coral
#

Ye but even so you can't ask them about the ring

#

If you could just walk up to them and go "yo can this ring actually kill whoever wears it if they're not nerevar" then we'd all be happy.
But no

#

The only people who say it can do that are the regular ashlanders who haven't been alive that long

#

Iirc there's also that one theory that the real Nerevar isn't actually ded and he was turned into a Bonewalker

tardy tiger
#

Telvanni do talk of it.

The enchanted ring called Moon-and-Star -- or One-Clan-Under-Moon-and-Star, as the Ashlanders call it -- was forged for the hero Nerevar by one of the Dwemer Sorcerer-Priest Kagrenac's smiths, and blessed by the Daedra Lord Azura. The ring gave Nerevar supernatural powers of persuasion and indisputable proof of identity, since any other who tried to wear the ring would be killed instantly.

Having to pull up construction set since UESP is having issues

lucid coral
tardy tiger
#

I would say it should work but how TES3 works with factions won't allow it since Fyr isn't in the actual faction due to the main quest

sick plover
#

Will they ever come out with Elder Scrolls 6 ? They said they will be ... Yet it's been forever ago since Bethesda said that

lucid coral
#

Ik. It's so goofy

#

I swear like half of MW's mystery is there because we aren't even allowed to simply ask things

tardy tiger
#

TBH I don't think TES really thinks things though with mystery because you can talk to ghosts just fine and Necromancers have no problems bringing back people (outside the Dwemer).

lucid coral
#

Yeah. Even Falion says he met other Dwemer when he went into Oblivion

tardy tiger
#

Like even Morrowind has its own headaches because they as a culture can talk to their ancestors and it's going to be like how many people are going to talk to those from major events?

#

And just remembered the Amulet of Kings has its own problem. You can talk to the previous people in it.

Like hells. That brings up its own issue where you could talk to Alessian and Reman Emperors. A Pious Emperor or Empress is totally going to use the Amulet to speak to or show Alessia at a Temple.

sick plover
#

I took screenshots of proof that each of all the Elder Scrolls Saga Races have Sub Races within each one .... Where can I upload screenshots?

pulsar root
feral viper
#

So was the Wardcron rewrite. And yet we still have to live with it.

feral viper
#

And yes, I know that was 22 year ago.

I am still salty.

nimble pond
#

So if magic is just raw energy, can it be formed into other properties, such as powder (like for cannons) or liquid?

hallow coral
#

i sort of assumed thats what aetherium was

feral viper
#

I think it depends on exactly how TES uses 'Energy'.

Is it the woo-energy, which is an independent material thing? Or is it a property OF things?

#

In the former case, it could be distilled and refined.

In the latter, only contained.

lucid coral
#

Stahlrim is said to be enchanted Ice iirc. Does that count?

hallow coral
#

if you melt ebony back into liquid does it turn into god blood again

feral viper
#

If it was ever god blood at all... Probably not. It'd just be liquid Ebony.

hallow coral
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

feral viper
#

Blood sorta implies the ability to convey vital living characteristics.

Heating up and melting dried blood doesn't actually turn it back into blood-blood.

lucid coral
#

Well Lorkhan's heart was still beating in MW despite being separated. Maybe the blood works the same way

hallow coral
#

also we shouldnt rlly presume it to work anything close to actual blood, things r never so simple in TES haha

pulsar root
#

Same fantasy world with...non human entities in a different realm(Daedra, Daedric princes). I wouldn't overthink it too much. Also same series with talking dragons(Nothing wrong with that mind you lmao)

hallow coral
#

oh 100% u CAN overthink it and i think u should in TES lore because it is that deep and it has its own sense of logic - it just isnt real world logic

pulsar root
feral viper
#

We also can't be sure it IS Lorkhans blood, or any other gods blood.

#

I personally like the idea that all minerals are god-blood of some sort.

But we have to recognise that's only one possibility. The presence of diverse minerals in Oblivion seems to dispute that.

astral hollow
#

It's definitely a world where magic can do crazy things, all the stuff that happens there, it's easy to understand that magic is messy and can wreck havoc.

pulsar root
#

Messy for the uninitiated and the reckless.

night violet
#

What are the odds that the big bad of TES VI is either a Sea Elf or a Sload?

wide garnet
#

I've got something new to share from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

This is Matthias (i.e. my Dragonborn) reporting on something new I've discovered while dreaming in High Hrothgar: When the Junnesejir came from Akavir to Tamriel seeking the Dragonborn, one of them chose to stay and study the Thu'um at High Hrothgar. He was able to keep the reason why a secret from the Greybeards at the time, but not from the spirits of the Fade, especially the Old Man of the Mountain (the spirit of the Throat of the World), and the reason why surprised everyone: he was trying to create a Shout that could breath the flame of life into a specially prepared, life-sized doll body!!! I wasn't able to determine why he was doing so because the surprise made me wake up, so I'll have to dream and find the memory again. I'll report again once I find out.

So, what do you think?

jade plover
night violet
#

We don't actually have a confirmation that's it's Hammerfell. That's speculation.

And the odds are strong that some kind of ship building/sailing will be in the game as they already have the mechanics from Starfield

nimble pond
#

It'd be cool if we could adjust/alter the environments a bit. Whether that's planting/chopping trees, arson, flowers, etc. I wonder if we could actually cause floods or droughts, if we summoned storms very often in the same area or cancelled rain for a long period of time. Could be useful to if competing our kingdom against another.

lucid coral
nimble pond
#

And combat on walls or the ceiling would be fun, dueling an enemy as you both shift around from the wall to the ceiling and back.
Also a simple grab and throw move would be appreciated.

lucid coral
#

They've done a focused expansion on almost every other province. Elsewhere, Summerset, Valenwood in the base game etc.

hallow coral
#

yeah southern hammerfell is still unexplored

nimble pond
#

High Rock would be cooked if it got excluded. They'd all be saying it's too small a province if they did it alone for TES7, comparing it to the size of Hammerfell. Not that they couldn't scale it to be just as big in-game, but you know how the people would react beyond the fact.
But at least it's not just a repeat of TES II, with it's focus centered on the Iliac Bay itself with only small bits of High Rock & Hammerfell. And only 16 side quests as it's DLC.. 💀

night violet
#

Again we don't know that. Yes it's likely Hammerfell is the main focus, but we don't actually know if it's just Hammerfell or high rock and Hammerfell

lucid coral
#

Don't think it'd be that big a deal

hallow coral
#

The thing about large maps is that they dont actually guarantee more content worth a damn. AC Valhalla had huge maps with loads of content and like a solid 70% of it was lame as hell fetch content with no depth or reason to it other than you just happened to be there. Vvardenfell was a small map with loads to do and even sidequests were chains of content that you actually wanted to do, instead of a chore list for 100% map completion and climbing towers or whatever going from ? to ?, and that's not just a ubisoft thing that's across most open world rpgs. I would far prefer a small map of like, Stros M'kai that has depth to the content than a huge 'explorable' map with nothing fun.

pulsar root
#

Ubi-soft's design is also very different compared to Bethesda's open world RPGs. Besides we only need one province in a game. Bethesda(At least right now) should not get overly ambitious(At least for now).

feral viper
#

I would say Bethesda should get LESS ambitious.

Stop whole provinces. Give us Sentinel and its surrounding environment. You could Still make it twice the size of Skyrim, and it wouldn't be to true-scale.

hallow coral
#

This is what I mean, we dont need a giant map size we just need more within one area. Pack it full of content worth doing instead of just loads of stuff that rewards us with nothing but xp and a few more hours played - reward us with experiences that we remember and npcs that are worth thinking about and stories that we wanna replay in the future.

pulsar root
#

I don't think we need to go lower then what Bethesda has already established. The way Skyrim is in terms of size is fine(Maybe a mild to moderate size increase but not too high) but it doesn't need to be multiple provinces.

The cities maybe need more NPCS but seems people have differing views on actual npcs or the non specific npcs we see in Starfield.

hallow coral
#

I'd be happy with a map skyrim's size so long as the content was interesting enough

eager remnant
#

I would love a map the size of Fallout 76. But II'd be happy with a map twice the size of Skyrim.

lucid coral
feral viper
#

Sort of.

Bethesda wants bigger and better. But it's come at the cost of depth and worldbuilding.

The factions in Starfield, for instance, are paper thin tropes with no actual functional depth, nuance or (IMO) thought of value..

#

My deepest worry is that TES6 will be 2 provinces, and in doing so both the cultures, history and identity of those provinces will be lost in the drive for 'MOAR!'.

Especially given the clear difficulty they have in creating cultures and identities anyway.

pulsar root
#

💀 Bethesda only went supremely bigger with Starfield. Otherwise its been the typical Bethesda game. It probably made it harder to flesh things out or not be as prioritized but I'm no Game dev expert.

wide garnet
feral viper
#

Starfield really put the problems on full display because of its other decisions, but they have been there for years.

The only real depth we've seen is when parodying Americana in Fallout. And in that case, 90% of the work is already done for them.

lucid coral
#

The only real difference is the top brass of the factions actually willing to make ammends and fix things

feral viper
#

It's deeper than that. But that gets into the nuances of Starfield's worldbuilding, and this isn't the place for that.

lucid coral
#

Fair. Tho i was joking

feral viper
#

Also fair.

golden matrix
#

Hello can anyone help me with skyrim creations I cant log in no matter what

#

I even factory reset my ps5 nothing works

keen stone
#

Should I buy the Skyrim library

timid drum
#

Absolutely

jade plover
jade plover
feral viper
nimble pond
# lucid coral Eh. Vvardenfell was pretty small too and no one said anything

It was already big in it's time. As always, the standard keeps getting pushed up over time.

But more importantly, TES7 Argonia + Morrowind (the rest of it). 🙌 TES8 Elsweyr + Valenwood. At least with the combos, there is no more of that dumb rumor of "Oh we can't do those provinces cause beast races are too weird," cause you got Elven provinces mixed with it.

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
# feral viper Sort of. Bethesda wants bigger and better. But it's come at the cost of depth ...

Was Starfield really lacking in content because of the map size though or was it deliberate design? It makes sense for it to be empty, if you want to correctly deliver the theme of early realistic space exploration based on our universe. I mean, it's not like we have a bunch of planets with McDonald's & Mickey Mouse on them. They are just barren and lonely rocks, and infinite darkness. That's it.

lucid coral
#

SF did have the content. It's more so distribution that sucked

nimble pond
#

I agree it had content, I was just addressing that common criticism.

lucid coral
#

See. In FO4/Skyrim radiant quests usually pointed you to handmade dungeons so even if the quest was random, the end goal wasn't.

In SF the radiant quests lead you to radiant dungeons

#

So when you come across the exact same layout on 50 different planets it just takes you out of the immersion

#

The powers are probably the biggest example of this. In Skyrim shouts are all distributed in different dungeons with unique layouts.
In SF the powers are all in the exact same temple design on multiple different planets with the exact same minigame

nimble pond
#

I wonder if the copy and paste method for that was their first choice or just a quick fix in regard to time constraint. They were already behind schedule and probably had to cut corners using methods like that unfortunately to lessen further delay of release of product, as it was already massively behind. And Xbox claims to the public eye 'no pressure,' but I doubt that's the case in private. BGS had alot going on with working on the creation engine back then, fixing fallout 76, and then covid of all things.. I think they had gotten really pushed back on schedule and it just threw a wrench into things and their preferred design systems.
Makes you wonder what we might have gotten in Starfield, had it not been for all that, especially the Covid, hard to be prepared for unforseen events like that.

feral viper
pulsar root
feral viper
#

Not the place to have the discussion, but based on the statements they have made, it appears to have been a result of failing to commit to the bit.

WHY they didn't commit is unknown.

#

But I think there's a lot of fundamentally poor design choices with Starfield that undermined it from the start. The specifics of which aren't important to TES, but the general themes of which may be.

astral hollow
#

Covid ruined a lot of things it's true

feral viper
#

I don't think we can blame COVID entirely. I think it just delayed the inevitable. Starfield was going to release like it did anyway.

hallow coral
#

okay like no offense but every time im in this chat u guys r talking abt starfield in the TES channel 😭

feral viper
#

Like, look at Todd's recent interview where he talks about the intent for the whole Unity and Starborn thing.

The intent was to make players contend with the idea of leaving everything behind and starting over.

But that's not what it even did. You had powers and new dialogue options and all your levels. You AREN'T starting over.

feral viper
pulsar root
#

They were here before me talking about SF. I just responded 🤷🏻‍♂️

feral viper
#

If facing starting over was the intent, then they fundamentally failed.

Instead, they should have had the Unity be a nebulous ending that told you what happened in your universe, and then left the future open.

NOT a New Game +, but rather an actual 'end' that you choose to engage with.

Then you start a new character.

#

And this is part of a clear disconnect between intent, and execution, that we've seen repeatedly over the last several games. It's not a unique problem, it's a trend.

#

And I think, for TES6, Bethesda needs to really lay out what they want to accomplish, and stick to that.

Do they want an engaging and deep sandbox? Do they want a compelling story with characters you care about? Do they want deep and variable mechanics that reward build and gameplay diversity? Do they want a thematic exploration of some artistic of theological style?

#

If you try to do it all, you're not going to do any of it.

feral viper
#

Now, personally, I've given up on 1, and 4.

3 is frustrating, because they have so many pieces of a brilliant game, but they never seem to do anything meaningful with them.

And 2 is somewhere they've shown consistent improvement in. But still struggle in some respects.

nimble pond
nimble pond
#

Curious. Has the TES games had a female main villain yet, or only male?

lucid coral
#

Beyond that uh... Ithelia yeah. Also poorly written sadly

#

Who else. Lemme think

#

Does Elenwen count?

nimble pond
#

Sure. But I was looking at TES 1-5. The mainline & base game overall villain (like Alduin or Dagon).

feral viper
#

If you want to get technical, it's had 3 male and 1 non-binary (but typically male presenting).

#

But in general, no. We've never had a strictly female antagonist in a main game, only in an expansion.

#

Though Dragons are... Weird. They appear to be male presenting, but wouldn't really fit any actual definition of male. Since Dragons can't reproduce.

#

So it may actually be 2 Male, 2 non-binary or non-relevant.

#

Given that Daggerfall doesn't really HAVE a primary antagonist.

lucid coral
#

They're their own unique thing

pulsar root
#

Yeah thats one weird feature TES Dragons have. Not a fan /shrug

feral viper
#

They're like the opposite of Parthenogenetic.

#

I was working on a hypothesis some years ago that all Dragon are in fact Alduin, broken off from the main to serve his goals. But I never ended up refining the idea that far.

lucid coral
#

They are all fragments of Akatosh tbf so that's not too far off

pulsar root
#

Same logic, kinda, although I dislike the idea(Mostly because technically there is only one dragon in said theory)

feral viper
noble verge
#

For the gods, a broken off shard and direct offspring are arguably one and the same.

knotty mesa
#

What would Umbra count as?

feral viper
#

Umbra is an artificial daedra

#

A direct, constructed consciousness imbued with power from a prince.

nimble pond
#

If they're gonna have survival modes, I wish they'd go hardcore or more pure about it.
Meaning no cities, towns, villages, friends or companions (besides animals). More primitive, less civilized. Just you and the land and everyone you encounter is an enemy meaning to kill and rob you and/or eat you, everyone just trying to survive like you. Everything you need you can get from living off the land. Goal? There really is none, just immerse in the world and survive long as you can against a much harsher and unforgiving environment.

nimble pond
#

And for the 2nd Great War (whenever it finally happens), could we see the war start out with parallels to Omaha Beach invasion from WWII? Just in a medival, fantasy style instead, but still heavy casualties and in-depth atmosphere.

primal olive
#

click Skyrim post about bad quests
its just people complaining about falmer caves because they are incapable of navigation

pulsar root
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

primal olive
#

thdt one count dooku meme

astral hollow
#

A funny comment I found on a funny Minecraft video "That....was definitely not the Wind."

night ember
#

playing morrowind for the first time. It is so funny to finally get the full breadth of how much dumber bethesda made the later TES games. Like it almost goes beyond pandering into malice. I get you want the big epic questline without pesky reading but did the early modern fabric of a believable world have to go along with it? Each subsequent game is inspired by some variant of gen x pop culture (ren fair or conan for 4 and 5) instead of real history it's embarrassing. Anyways great game bring back levitation

pulsar root
night ember
#

man I just be going about my day when I remember kurt was robbed of elder scrolls 6 and get pissed off lol. I am so eager to see who they replaced him with in the lead, like genuinely more than some of the faction questlines.

hallow coral
#

looking in this chat n its just the doomer channel

feral viper
#

You are correct though. This, for me, shall be a constructive week.

So prepare for walls of text no one will actually read

#

I'll let the crowd pick my first rant though.

Crafting

Combat

Magic

'Settlement'

livid ingot
pulsar root
#

Don't encourage him >.>

timid drum
#

Think the only wall of text I haven't seen from Terical is crafting so thats my vote

warped eagle
#

wow i just downloaded ESO just to boot it up and see its in maintenance yippie

feral viper
nimble pond
#

So. What do all you fellers & rascals think about the upcoming ESO Naval event? Yay? Nay?

feral viper
#

You mean Black Flag? Second best pirate game ever made.

feral viper
# livid ingot Magic 🎩 🪄 🔮

Anyway. Onto the first pick.

Magic in TES has always been in a bit of a weird spot. It's flitted between clunky and barely useful, to barely an inconvenience and far too powerful.

There's also a solid disconnect between magic in the setting, and magic in the games, which has plagued the system since Daggerfall.

On top of that, you have Spellcrafting. Which is its own problem. In principle, it's a fantastic idea, but in practice it's just made vendors obsolete and had probably the worst interface of anything in the franchise (it's practically the same interface the creation kit uses).

astral hollow
feral viper
#

To address these problems, and make magic feel, well, line Magic, I think you need to focus on a few cardinal rules.

Commitment: Magic should require the player to commit to it in character building. It shouldn't be an afterthought, and should require gameplay sacrifices to pursue. These can get lessened as you get better, but that's part of 'Mastering' it.

Flexibility: because of its commitments, Magic needs to be able to fulfill multiple roles in the world. This means its effects and behaviours need to be flexible, allowing players to use it in practically every situation.

Integrated: Magic needs to feel grounded in the world, and something that others within it engage with. It's not just a player-focused thing, it's part of the setting and is integral to the world.

astral hollow
#

I enjoyed the magic system in Hogwarts Legacy

#

Except for the end boss battle part

feral viper
#

Have not played (don't like Harry Potter) so I can't comment.

astral hollow
#

That was just limiting. I like it when I can fight the big enemies the way you want, instead of just hitting color spell circles to beat the boss battle

#

However in the Elder Scrolls, it does really well with letting you decide how to fight the enemies

feral viper
#

To start, I would say, keep Skyrim's hands system.

To cast a spell, it needs to be Equipped like a weapon. This means, to use magic, you have to make the sacrifice of not having something in that hand.

You can, as you progress, learn ways to modify casting and treat them more like Powers (combat related topic for another time) but that's all part of the Commitment side.

astral hollow
#

I'm not as into Harry Potter as a regular fan is though, I'm more into Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim now but there are other games that definitely have varied magic systems

feral viper
#

Despite the popularity of it, I think Oblivion's approach was hands down the worst, because there was no reason to NOT have a spell equipped. There was no downside, no limitation, so you always just did it because otherwise you were just deliberately playing suboptimally.

#

So keep spells linked to hands, at least at base. This makes unlocking something like Oblivion-casting feel like you're making progress, instead of the baseline.

astral hollow
#

My favorite magic system was with Morrowind, I thought it was pretty creative how you had to use magic pants to levitate up to places.

Also in Skyrim the magic scrolls were very interesting as well

feral viper
#

I think Scrolls could be an interesting aspect of Crafting, but that's a topic for another day...

#

So, in terms of basic functionality. You cast spells with your hands. Skyrim got this right, at least.

As you progress, you may be able to bypass this requirement, but it's not something innate to spellcasting.

tardy tiger
#

Magic gets a bit weird I feel. Skyrim has the better animations but the effects are still generic. DLC at least adds some new types of magic with sun magic.

ESO unfortunately is one of the few times TES actually does something with magic that isn't basic as hell (man TES just loves basic elemental spells).

tardy tiger
astral hollow
#

Maybe it can be like a kid learning from a parent. I think The Elder Scrolls Online helps The Elder Scrolls in general to get ideas and improve

astral hollow
feral viper
#

For Flexibility, I think the key here is variety. Magic can't be solely combat focused, if also needs to have exploration and socialisation aspects to it.

But I don't think it should handle these things in the exact same way as others.

Charm, for instance, shouldn't just make someone agree with you, like it has in previous games. Levitate shouldn't just be limited TO you, but should also have other applications (bringing in Starfield's gravity mechanics for instance).

In order to be versatile, there have to be enough effects and behaviours to fit into enough scenarios.

astral hollow
#

Or just for building things

tardy tiger
#

Skyrim concept art had it for ancient nords if I recall. But like yeah construction should be using magic. Both to reinforce it and to help with basic things like lifting things.

astral hollow
#

The ability to air condition an entire province via a tower, that's also helpful magic. Turning a once desolate area into a habitable area, helping not just the people to survive the area, but also the wild animals, and the plants.

The Tower in Cyrodill is what prevents the Equatorial heat from leaking in, as without this tower, the place would have been uninhabitable.

pulsar root
#

I wouldn't go that far with Magic but if such magic did it would be so rare that only master mages could even "attempt" to do it.

lucid coral
nimble pond
#

Room for a third?

astral hollow
#

What is Black Flag about? How is is it similar or different from The Elder Scrolls?

feral viper
feral viper
lucid coral
feral viper
#

Yes

lucid coral
#

Ok. 5 games then.

feral viper
#

Thats 5 more good pirate games than there are sports games.

lucid coral
#

Ya know what. That's a good point. Fair enough

warped eagle
#

why is elder scrolls online so stubborn i cant login

eager remnant
feral viper
#

Right, back on break so have ranting time again.

Integration is difficult, because Bethesda has never had any formulaic or clear explanation for how magic is USED, let alone how it functions in TES. It's basically been handled as a wishy-washy handwavied meme.

Which is bad for trying to make it accurate, but great because it allows you to do basically anything.

#

So I propose a clear, systemic way to approach spells that also works with Spellcrafting.

Spells are constructed on a 'Matrix'. You have the core structure:

Delivery (animation and basic behaviour)

Primary effect (what it does)

Secondary Effects (extra magical effects of changed to behaviour).

A Novice level spell is just going o be Delivery and Primary. But for each additional spell class, it adds a Secondary.

timid drum
#

Man the nerd in me is coding that out in my head (comp sci major here). But I do agree with that proposal. It would also be interesting if spells affected the caster, if playing on survival at least. Ex: fire spells cause the user to lose health as one would lose health if fire is casted at. Or stamina is depleted after using frost spells

feral viper
#

Absolutely. It's not an EASY concept to execute on, but it's the sort of system that would form a basis for magic that could be easily expanded on.

#

Want a fireball that has double radius? Slap an Extended Blast secondary on there.

Want one that ricochets off walls first? You can have a secondary for that too.

Want a living bomb spell that spreads to targets in close proximity? You could probably do that in a Master level spell.

#

Once you have the system in place, adding modifiers just builds on it.

timid drum
#

It would also be interesting if fire/frost/etc spells left a trail on its path. Say you are attacking an enemy with a spell, it should leave a trail on its way to the enemy. That would definitely be a master level spell tho

feral viper
#

'Easy' enough to make a modifier for that too.

timid drum
#

Fair point

feral viper
#

This sort of approach would also have an advantage of being able to clearly distinguish between Novice, Journeyman, Expert, Master and Grandmaster spell classes. The more complex a spell, the higher the class.

You also have a mechanism to very clearly show progression in spellmaking, as you learn to make more and more complex spells.

You ALSO have clearly laid out 'packages' which can allow you to better balance. Instead of a poorly explained slider for damage, you can have a Greater Magnitude secondary which increases Damage by 75%, but also increases Magicka Cost by 30%

feral viper
#

So, you've got the Commitment part: Hands require you to make mechanical sacrifices at the start, and you have clear progression milestones that make investment in Magic worthwhile.

You've got Flexibility, as spells can be tailored to different situations and play styles, while also having a system which allows for an easy integration of a huge range of varied effects (not just simple Apply X magic effect).

And you have a system which can be integrated into the setting and world, because it's already structured around how skill milestones and scholarship work in the setting.

#

It ALSO allows you to being back Spellcrafting in such a way that can both be integrated, but also doesn't render the entire library of basic spells totally obsolete.

Spellcrafting becomes an invested activity which allows you to shape spells specific to how you want to play, rather than just dumping gold to make overpowered spells that blow up a room.

timid drum
#

Totally relevant xd

feral viper
#

Aren't explosives just really enchantments?

timid drum
#

Indeed

primal olive
#

snelf snelves snelf snelves

nimble pond
#

Magic of the sea, please. 🏴‍☠️

half igloo
harsh crown
gloomy anchor
wide garnet
harsh crown
gloomy anchor
#

We don't mess around with pizza here at Bethesda!

wide garnet
#

I'm being silly.

runic veldt
#

Hi

pulsar root
#

Who said PIZZA.... Now I want it

harsh crown
gloomy anchor
harsh crown
gloomy anchor
stark flower
#

You know what. I actually think I have all the stuff to make barbeque chicken pizza from scratch.

#

Unless the thing of sweet baby ray's in my fridge is not as full as I think it is potatothink

gloomy anchor
astral hollow
timid drum
#

My elementary did the pizza parties, we had bounce houses and a bunch of other cool stuff :3

astral hollow
#

It's also a great thing for D&D sessions as well 😁

#

Pizza party! 🎉🥳 Cheese......for everyone!

harsh crown
#

And to clarify, that's just for me.

astral hollow
#

Slowly uses dragonborn chef powers.....

Dresses up as a chef in Skyrim, and collects the ingredients to make a fine pizza to celebrate during Vitoria Vici's birthday party.

Everyone at the Solitude castle enjoyed the Pizza and the great party!

😆

astral hollow
gloomy anchor
stark flower
astral hollow
gloomy anchor
#

My fav pizza, Dominos, with alfredo sauce, steak, bacon, and peperoni. So good

astral hollow
#

My favorite type of pizza is the Barbecue chicken pizza 🍕

pulsar root
#

No sausage. Just regular Cheese Pizza 4 me.

stark flower
# astral hollow What do you like on your pizza CouchTato

Fave is BBQ chicken, or alfredo sauce with mushrooms and spinach. For red sauce, sausage, mushrooms would probably be my choice rn. But you can just load it up really, minus the banana peppers and olives. Not huge on pickled jalapenos either.

gloomy anchor
#

amended, the pan pizza crust as well

harsh crown
stark flower
gloomy anchor
stark flower
#

dangit now I HAVE to make pizza

gloomy anchor
#

Now I wanna order dominos lol

harsh crown
stark flower
#

I wish I could, I gotta pay rent tomorrow and I'm all out of spending money.

gloomy anchor
astral hollow
#

Continuation of funny skit

The Solitude castle party gets a visit from a courier. The courier is supposed to deliver a message to the Dragonborn about strange things that have been occurring at Falkreath at night during the full moon, but the courier just enjoys the party and forgets to give the letter to the dragon born.

timid drum
#

Yes

#

Haiwainn pizza tho >>>

astral hollow
timid drum
#

Ofc ofc

astral hollow
#

Different cultures do recipes differently

#

Anyway I couldn't find the pirate ship cave in Oblivion Remastered. 😞

#

I will keep trying to look for it

#

There is a Skyrim mod that has pizza it's by Arron Dominion

timid drum
#

Whoop whoop

astral hollow
#

Skyrim Creations - Skyrim Pizza [PC] https://share.google/HKldZqMPTCpD8kiwI

Bethesda.NET
Skyrim Pizza [PC]

Skyrim Pizza by Arron Dominion Short Description: Pizza is not as modern as one might think.  Chef Turtle has moved to Riverwood and opened up Riverwood Pizza.  He has shared his secret with the Dragonborn through books, and there are 80 different combinations that can be baked.

timid drum
#

Ty

feral viper
#

A whole thread of pizza talk, and no one mentioned Pizza the Hutt

#

Anyway, for @timid drum ... Crafting time

stark flower
feral viper
#

Nah, I'm referencing the Space Balls secondary villian.

livid ingot
#

Man Terical how do you have permissions to upload gifs onto this channel

#

I can share gifs on the lore channel but never here 😩

lucid coral
#

The same way you can upload pics

astral hollow
livid ingot
#

I can and do share links

timid drum
astral hollow
#

Mining and Crafting VaultBoySunglasses

feral viper
livid ingot
#

I've never used that function before

hearty otter
astral hollow
feral viper
#

Anyway, in point. My broad perspective on Crafting first.

I think Crafting is one of those systems in TES that is functional in all aspects, but really fails to reach the potential it has. You make a recipe, you get item, wham bam done. It's not BAD, but it could be so much more.

The obvious exception to this is Alchemy, which is sort of its own topic (as is Enchanting) but on the whole, I think all 3 forms of Crafting has huge potential... And better yet, Bethesda already has most of the pieces to realise it.

#

In particular, I think that crafting, specifically crafting of equipment, can not only cover but actually exceed the range of lost item slots, allowing for hitherto unknown amounts of customization.

#

First, some philosophy. Crafting is the sort of thing that can quickly become unwieldy and oppressive. So it needs to follow some clear design rules.

First, it must be back-end loaded. A good crafting system is one that allows for ease of use on the surface, but allows for a lot of depth and variability if you WANT to dig deeper.

A key example of this is 7 Days to Die and it's building. You CAN just build a block house, like you would with Minecraft, but if you want to get fancy and more creative, the sheer range of block shapes you can dive into allows you to build just about anything. Squares will do the trick, but if you want deeper you can literally build the statue of liberty as your Horde Base (don't do that, it wouldn't be defensible at all).

#

Second, it should be to facilitate creativity and identity, NOT progression.

The main focus of a crafting system should be more about making things that suit your approach, your style, or your character, not getting the next equipment tier to move forward.

General progression is more about having what works to get the job done. Looting, quest rewards, and vendors handle this already, and should remain the primary focus there.

Crafting is more about having precisely what YOU want, rather than getting ahead of the curve.

#

And finally, Crafting should be in some way grounded in the world, it's materials and it's cultural context.

This is a notable trend in my ramblings, which may come as a surprise considering my growing disdain for the setting, but all systems are important that they FIT with the world and setting they're representing. Crafting is no different.

If it works like a 3d printer, you better have some way to justify that in universe, otherwise you need to back to the drawing board.

#

Now, lunch is over, so I'll come back and explain how I think these criteria should be addressed, and what we can get out of it.

astral hollow
feral viper
#

Make sure you log in once every 30 days though.

lucid coral
#

Someone actually managed to get Morrowind running on Fallout 4's pip boy

wide garnet
# wide garnet I've got something new to share from my *Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls* fanfictio...

I’m doing a follow-up to this one:

Matthias: After studying the memory of the ‘Shout that breathes life into a doll’ some more, I decided to talk to Arnegir about it. He wasn’t happy that I discovered it, and said that it wasn’t part of the Way of the Voice, but he did say that the Akaviri who created said Shout was interred in the High Hrothgar Catacombs and unlocked the entrance for me. Especially since I could detect (with my enhancing Dov senses) the presence of Necromantic magic, which could only mean one thing: someone is practicing Necromancy down there, and possibly desecrating the bodies of previous members of the Greybeards. I’m going to investigate this some more, then report back.

feral viper
#

So, issues and rules out of the way... What pieces does Bethesda have in its toolbox that could be assembled to make a great crafting system.

First off, I think Fallout 4 and onward showcases something amazing. The assembly of various components to a weapon at first glance doesn't seem particularly useful in a medieval context, but when you get into the nitty gritty has some real potential.

Second, ESO has formally introduced styles, motifs and variable materials to the franchise. While not Bethesda proper, it's close enough for consideration.

And finally, Skyrim's tempering and item improvements finally give us some way to make Durability worthwhile.

#

So, to start.

Crafting comes in 2 forms. Production, and Design.

Production is straight recipe crafting. Just like in Skyrim. Have to crank out 100 daggers for a shipping order to fulfill a crafting job? That's how you do it.

Design is the deeper side of things. It's how you MAKE recipes yourself.

#

Items are divided into Parts. I'd say between 3 and 5, though for simplicity we'll use 3 as an example.

For a sword, you have The Blade, the Guard, and the Hilt (technically the Guard is part of the Hilt, but bear with me). These function just like things in Fallout and onward, with their own visual appearance and some minor stat variables.

When you design an item, you choose the parts you want. Want a Dunmeri curved blade but an Imperial round Guard? You can do that.

#

Once you've picked the Parts, you can select the Materials. This is where the bulk of the stats come from, while also impacting the colour and texture.

Like with painting your ship in Starfield, you've got 3 categories: Primary Material, Secondary Material, and Embellishments.

Want the above sword to be made of Oricalcum and have gold inlay? You can do that.

astral hollow
#

Today is a very special day

#

For Morrowind

violet lily
#

Can still remember the first time I saw Morrowind

#

does not feel like near-25 years since

hearty otter
#

Yeah - that was an amazing feeling

#

Still feels out of this world after all these years to be honest

primal olive
astral hollow
feral viper
#

I remember it as well...

It was not a good feeling.

timid drum
#

Ah yes, Terical the god of vengeance. (Meaning towards the flaws in TES)

primal olive
#

id be the snelf

feral viper
timid drum
#

Understandable

timid drum
astral hollow
#

I first played Morrowind in highschool during the lockdown, and it was a game that helped me to get through the pandemic. I stopped playing for a while due to getting busy with art projects and other homework but I really enjoyed the rest of the game's story it was ethereal and wonderful.

feral viper
#

Highschool... During the lockdown?

astral hollow
#

Pandemic Lockdown

feral viper
astral hollow
#

On the weekend

primal olive
#

go my snelf army

feral viper
#

I've been thinking of basing my High Elves with snow bases... Or maybe late autumn bases with some snow... Does that count as a snelf army?

#

You'd think after 30 years, I'd have decided what theme to base my army with. But nope!

astral hollow
feral viper
#

Wait, wrong Orcs

#

Ya mean dem whiny Orcs. Da best Orcs just wanna go krump'n wit da boyz.

nimble pond
#

Oh I'd love a tameable Orc Bull or Ox. Just so I can ride around and gore random people walking the roads high up into the air and stomp them after.

feral viper
#

TES needs more stuff like the Echatere

astral hollow
astral hollow
feral viper
#

It's a domestic livestock for the Orcs of Orsinium.

It's a cross between a boar, a centipede, and a beaver.

#

One of the glimmers of creativity in the setting in recent years. Though technically it was mentioned back in Redguard, so it was more just scooping up scraps left from that game

tardy tiger
feral viper
#

Boris isn't real. He can't save Middenhiem

tardy tiger
#

His great big bushy beard can.

feral viper
#

Boris is just three youngling Dwarfs in a suit of plate armour.

primal olive
#

some of the warhammer fantasy elves in the cold regions are functionally snow elves

feral viper
#

I do not currently have a handmaiden, or Sisters. But I will.

feral viper
primal olive
#

momma's boy!

feral viper
#

I think that one is actually Malis Darkblade

pulsar root
#

I still petition to call them something else that isn't Snow Elves.(Same culture, history, just not the name). Plz and ty

tardy tiger
#

Malus Darkblade. He's got a Demon in him

primal olive
#

like rename the falmer? or rename a snelf faction from a different world

feral viper
#

I think they mean, don't call them Snow Elves. Call them Falmer.

Except that Skyrim kinda poisoned that name by so heavily associating it with the post-degeneration population.

primal olive
#

names are just words
plus Falmer sounds better; I tend to refer to them as Falmer anyway

feral viper
#

All the Mer names sound better.

primal olive
#

i agree
not only does it sound more elegant, it helps to create a distinction from the general elves of fantasy

wide garnet
nimble pond
primal olive
#

falmermermermer

thorny knot
feral viper
feral viper
#

And he got to go out like a bad ass. Killed by the only more bad ass Elf in the entire setting

feral viper
# feral viper Once you've picked the Parts, you can select the Materials. This is where the bu...

Anyway, to wrap up this stage of the Crafting thing.

This sort of approach uses systems already in place in Bethesda games, while allowing for a vast increase in visual variety of equipment. Not just for weapons, but armour.

The height of armour customization in TES has been Morrowind. The issue is, it came with juggling 8 armour slots to achieve.

In principle, this approach could allow MORE customisation with a single armour slot, like in Starfield.

I think FO4s armour slots is a better approach, of course, for a few reasons... But I'm just saying you COULD.

#

So this fits all 3 criteria.

The depth is on the back end. You can quickly and easily make the standard recipe items without having to dive into the nitty gritty.

The main bulk of it is focused on customisation and specifically tailoring to your style, both in appearance and function.

And it's grounded in how things are made in universe. You don't make a sword in a single piece, and not every breastplate with the same material is identical.

#

It has an added benefit that it works, at least in principle if not in detail, for EVERY sort of crafted item. Weapons, Armour, Clothing, Furniture, Pot and bottles, etc.

#

It could be used equally to outfit all your Fighters Guild employees in matching uniforms, as to create a custom 10 piece dining set to furnish your mansion.

primal olive
#

me watching them turn a 3 pound sword into 8 pounds /j

feral viper
#

Absolutely. I think the balance in how materials impact something needs to be addressed.

The finished product should not weigh more than it's components. That's just madness.

severe turret
#

I have same account on PS4 and Xbox My PlayStation broke and do anyone know if I can move my account to Xbox ? If so I signed in on Xbox with same cred but my many years of playing never transferred

primal olive
#

if you mean for ESO specifically, crossplay is in development

clever spruce
primal olive
#

not a bother! I don't think so but if I'm allowed to i can invite you to them

clever spruce
primal olive
severe turret
primal olive
rose salmon
#

I got a question for my ESO players do we have word if the new ship battles coming are including possible flintlock weaponary? Or skills? Like a pistol and rifle I for one would love to have a secondary flintlock pistol weapon that I can tag with my nightblade build so I can teleport strike an burst with one flintlock pistol shot maybe it would put a bleed proc on the enemy an I could stack dps on that?👀

primal olive
#

we're not getting guns ever

#

i respect that you picked the correct class (nightblade) though

rose salmon
#

Oof rip I got excited thought we might see something similar to silver bolts or maybe even a new weapon line with the pirate theme

#

Possible flintlock skin morph for silver bolts 👀

primal olive
#

they font have flintlocks wrong series

eager remnant
hallow coral
pulsar root
#

hashtag No.

primal olive
hallow coral
rose salmon
#

They just don’t want me live my dream of being jack sparrow in eso it’s okay I am open minded enough to understand

feral viper
pulsar root
#

I'm flexible. Just not that flexible.

primal olive
#

reading lore and its sayin "alessia saw the nords murderin elves and was inspired to rebel, did so, and da future men of cyrod turned it to dookie thanks to an imga"

#

also. men seem to call em dales while elves call em vales

noble verge
#

The Daedra-worshiping Ayleids had it coming.

#

Before Alessia's rebellion, Cyrodiil was dominated by Daedra-worshiping Ayleids- who won a civil war against the Aedra-worshiping Ayleids a few decades prior- and they were extremely depraved in their treatment of the enslaved Nedes.

astral hollow
#

May your travels lead you to warm sands

lucid coral
#

Tho they did mostly directly genocided people instead of torturing them

feral viper
#

Though it's worth noting that the information we have suggests the Aedraphile Ayleids were no better. They were just the political minor that sided with the rebellion.

pulsar root
#

someone writing old lore was Genocide happy >.>

hearty otter
#

(not me but as a kind of a joke about how old stuff was written)

feral viper
#

TES is the perfect storm for genocides. Religion, Ethnocentrism, and Imperialism.

So it's no surprise that their history is full of them.

primal torrent
#

Please keep in mind the server rules about discussing real world religion, politics, and social issues.

livid ingot
#

Its the Arena after all.
"And the awful fighting began again"

feral viper
#

I mean, it was more of just factual history, but noted.

feral viper
astral hollow
#

Of May

feral viper
#

I'll give TES this. It's at least realistic in that regard.

Many fantasy settings go through long periods of peace and stability, often with dozens of cultures, religions and races/species living harmoniously together.

Which is utter nonsense, ESPECIALLY in a pre-information world.

pulsar root
astral hollow
pulsar root
astral hollow
#

Zenith maximum 💯

feral viper
#

Well, it was MORE peaceful. Unfortunately it was still plagued by totalitarian subjugation of the provinces and the hierarchal oppression of the lower classes.

Peasant revolts were still common, and violently suppressed. But peasant revolts are always common in feudal systems.

tardy tiger
#

TES loves its feudal hellscape. retconned Governors to give you more feudal lands

feral viper
primal olive
primal olive
primal olive
#

smells local cedars
immediately becomes violent /j

pulsar root
#

I smell crime. /guard

noble verge
feral viper
#

We don't actually know. Because Bethesda and ZOS have seemingly forgotten the Aedraphile Ayleids even existed.

What sources we have on the matter makes no distinction in behaviour

primal olive
feral viper
#

And all the Septims in Highrock

primal olive
pulsar root
#

Humans 🤓

primal olive
feral viper
nimble pond
astral bluff
nimble pond
feral viper
cerulean blaze
#

Need some good suggestions for overhaul mods for pc that add trees too cities whiterun to bleak

eager remnant
cerulean blaze
#

Copy

pale mica
#

Hi

feral viper
#

Hello

nimble pond
feral viper
#

It's coarse and gets eveywhere

astral hollow
feral viper
#

I predict 30% more fetch quests

pulsar root
feral viper
#

Nah, Plumera has a better track record.

Nostradamus' book of prophecies is probably the second least reliable book of prophecies there is.

feral viper
#

Ok, new rant. Still on Crafting. This time: Alchemy.

#

Alchemy has a few problems.

The first, is it's just not Alchemy.

Alchemy is a concise and calibrated process, the precursor to chemistry, focused on the physical and spiritual manipulation of materials to create desired end products.

Alchemy in TES is mashing a bunch of plants to feather in a bottle. It's at best Herbalism, at worst its mixing 'potions' in the bathtube as a child.

#

It's second problem, is that it lacks any real way to control the specifics of a product. How strong it is, the type of result (Potion vs Poison) or even the ability to blend positive and negative effects.

#

And the third problem is that there's no quick and easy way to really engage with it. Every time you want to make a potion, you have sort through all your ingredients the same way.

nimble pond
#

I'd like some quirky effects thrown in to play with. Making their skin turn pink. Itchiness. Extremely foul odors/gases. Causing irritable bowels. Hallucinations.

Also, contagions and viruses. Bumps and rash all over their body. Some lethal.

feral viper
#

I could definitely see some of that being an interesting thing to play with. Especially if you're just mixing raw materials.

#

That said, systemically, I think a few key changes are needed.

First, straight recipe options. No more having scraps in your Notes tab that tells you what ingredients to use. Have actual recipes which, when selected, filter only known ingredients that have the effects.

Second, Solvents. Have a specific set of Ingredients, solvents, which dictate the behaviour of the creation. A spirit will ALWAYS make a consumable potion. A Tar will ALWAYS make a poison. If you use Damage Health effects and a Spirit, you're making a potion that will hurt YOU, not the enemy. Unless they drink it of course.

Third, bring back mixed effects. This was last in Morrowind, and under this approach needs to come back. Only Fortify Health ingredients also have a Drain Magicka effect as well? Guess you're losing Magicka at the same time.

#

From there, we can do something more... Alchemical.

Decoction is the refining process, taking raw materials and making more concentrated, specific compounds for later use.

If you want to fine tune your brewing, you need to refine your materials. Mash, boil, filter, concentrate.

This is where Alchemical Stations, and Equipment, can come into play. Making a potion from stuff you have on hand isn't super difficult. Take the ingredients, mix in a solvent, maybe give it a shake. Done.

Properly processing and refining raw materials on the other hand is. The good old days of Alembics, Retorts, Calculators etc can all come back as specific upgrades to your Alchemy station, allowing you to create stronger or more specific decoctions.

Increasing potency, filtering out unwanted effects, etc.

#

This would also allow you play around with Potency on effects. Instead of it being linked to Skill directly (which doesn't make a whole lot of sense) you can unlock the ability to make more concentrated decoctions, allowing you to make more potent alchemical creations.

#

Front end is simple.

Recipie is direct, filters ingredients, and produces a product.

Decoctions on the other hand are more complex, allowing you to dive into the more complex and variable side of Alchemy, creating brews specifically to do what you want, how you want.

#

And the grounding in the world is simple, because... Well... It's alchemy. At least, far closer to alchemy, since you're not appealing to divine sources of power to shape the spirit of mundane things to elicit magical transformations...

noble verge
#

I agree though- something that really stuck with me in TES III was how "apothecary" and "alchemist" were more or less interchangeable.

lucid coral
#

Fallout 76 made some great improvements to alchemy. You can make fusion cores, chems, nuclear materials for further crafting

#

Hope they add some of that to TES

#

Imagine if you could make your own soul gem

noble verge
flat mulch
#

Today I played the Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion Remaster and there's one very good thing there that should be used in TES6: enemies apply effects, something similar to a spider applies poison, other enemies hide in water or when you fight them in the rain, they regenerate health, or plants paralyze, and finally, potions make sense, the game world becomes even more interactive.

lucid coral
#

Uh. They already have that tho

#

Vampire enemies/friendlies don't regen in sunlight, Werewolves are immune to poison effects, ice mages can slow down stamina which makes npcs run slower

#

Draugr shouts can disarm npcs they're fighting too in which case they'd run to find a weapon

#

What else. Uh. Oh yeah Falmer npcs can apply poison to whoever they're fighting however dwemer automatons are immune to that so they don't care about running

#

They will try running if their health drops too low however but that extra poison debuff won't do anything

noble verge
#

Spriggans and Draugr sometimes set ambushes.

lucid coral
#

I think that's scripted rather than dynamic but yeah that works too

flat mulch
#

I don't remember having to use anything for poisoning or anything in the basic version of the game, and here after 2 hours I had to use the antidote. Maybe the effects were weak, What I mean is that the effects you mention were very rare.and for example wolves should inflict bleeding effects, in my opinion every opponent should have some effect

lucid coral
#

They do tho. Falmer poison can often insta kill you on many occassions

noble verge
#

I think part of it is that unlike Oblivion and Morrowind, Skyrim doesn't show active buffs and debuffs on the main screen.

lucid coral
#

They drain health insanely fast if you don't have poison resistance

#

Especially the arrows. Mage playthroughs are insanely tricky early game because those buggers are almost dead eye and the poison effect goes through stuff like stoneflesh

lucid coral
feral viper
#

For all he did for RPGs as a genre... Gygax really didn't know what the hell he was talking about 90% of the time.

#

But, real alchemy is complex enough you'd need an entire game built around it. So I don't think it's a reasonable goal in this case.

#

And I say 'Real' loosely since... You know... Its alchemy, and alchemy doesn't actually work

primal olive
pulsar root
primal olive
primal olive
#

im snelf buy my falmer potion

last dew
#

What would happen if Molag Bal decides to corrupt 9 people who each worship the of the 9 divine gods, and enslave and transform the 9 priests into undead wraiths to do Molag Bal's bidding as Molag Bal's mockery of the 9 divines and the Aedra?

primal olive
primal olive
#

hello snow elves

polar zenith
#

Stendarr's blessing. swaghappy

graceful epoch
#

For the love of all that is holy, please fix this chat in game keyboard crashing my game bethesda. Please.

pulsar root
feral viper
last dew
#

I mean like how Sauron corrupted 9 kings and turn them into the Nazgûl......

feral viper
#

The 9 Dreugh Kings

last dew
#

No. Undead kings. Not those underwater oceanic insectoid creatures. Undead enslaved ghostly skeletal haunting powerful lich wraiths of darkness.

#

Probably high ranking soul shriven sorcerers or high ranking vampire lords.

primal olive
#

if you want lotr they have movies you can watch

last dew
#

I'm sorry, can I not have frustrating discussions like this and not be contradicted non-stop? Such low standards, these days.... lack of any passion, lack of any creativity, and lack of any fun....

#

I'm not talking about making Elder Scrolls into LoTR, I mean adding stuff to that is an inspiration of it. Wake up.

#

I said an inspiration about 9 undead wraiths in passion for Elder Scrolls if Molag Bal decides to personally create his own 9 Nazgûl stuff out of love for Elder Scrolls games because I picture Molag Bal corrupting 9 souls who worshipped the 9 divines out of mockery for the Divines because it's such a Molag Bal thing to do. To make the 9 corrupted priests into his slaves to do his bidding because it's something Molag Bal would've loved to do out of hatred of the Nine Divines. He's done something like that to Lamae Bal, and he might do it again to add more insult to injury. His nine corrupted priests turned into enslaved cold harbor generals of cold harbor. Do I really have to explain it to you, or am I over explaining it?

livid ingot
#

You're right, there is a lack of creativity these days

pulsar root
#

Shake head Creativity is subjective.

feral viper
last dew
#

Quit trolling. I'm in no mood for jokes.

feral viper
stark flower
#

Let's keep it civil guys. If you are unable to get along, please make use of the block button.

last dew
#

If only Discord blocking is as good as old Twitter was....

noble verge
lucid coral
#

The last time TES took heavy inspiration from TLoR, Oblivion happened.
I'd rather avoid that

#

Small side stories are fine however. Could be some flavor lore thrown in the background inspired by it

noble verge
feral viper
#

And I'm reasonably sure that there would have been undead Dreugh Kings shenanigans going on there.

#

It's never detailed how many kings the Dreugh had though.

noble verge
#

There's also the tales of the Ruddy Man, the Dreugh ruler who took the form of a discarded carapace that took over whoever wore it.

feral viper
#

Yeah. Theres also the politics of Coldharbour directly to consider. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 9 Lich Kings already there, in some part of the real.

#

Wearing cold iron crowns nailed to their skulls.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

At this point, I actually think even taking inspiration from LotR is a downside.

There's so many more things to take influence from, stop beating the same dead horse.

#

More and more, I genuinely think Jackson's movies may have set the Fantasy genre back as a whole.

#

And I say that as someone who genuinely loves the moves.

I just don't love the impact they've had on creative diversity.

last dew
#

You wanna make the Elder Scrolls games you want Bethesda to make? Be my guest.

#

Want Elder Scrolls to be the game you want to make, and not what I want the Elder Scrolls games to make? Pretty please be my guest. Considering if you have enough enthusiasm to do so instead of being negative all the time. Come on, where's the love? For the love of Mara?

primal olive
last dew
primal olive
primal olive
last dew
#

Because to me, Elder Scrolls universe is a dream, a dream that the universe can only end when the dreamer wakes up and the dream no longer dreams.

#

A dream that no longer needs its dreamer. A weird fascinating fantasy dream which is what Elder Scrolls is to me. Tamriel's like a dream, and the realms of Oblivion are kinda like nightmares.

feral viper
#

Literally spent an entire week focusing on constructive criticism. Still being accused of only being negative.

astral bluff
#

we know lore wise about molag bal yada yada daedric mantle of domination and enslavement king of yk yeye we all wanna kill him well I was thinking a good lore style is trapping molag bal in a black book then returning the book to mora who literally hates molag bal he can rewrite everything about his mantle his personality and fragment his soul

#

Am I tweaking or no?

pulsar root
#

Maybe the writers were.

astral bluff
nimble pond
#

Well, I'm gonna go brush my teeth.

lucid coral
#

And she still isn't fully gone

astral bluff
#

Mora can rewrite His mantle

lucid coral
#

He sure as hell didn't do anything for Ithelia

astral bluff
#

He didnt hate Ithelia im pretty sure

lucid coral
#

Who says he hates Molag

astral bluff
#

Lore

lucid coral
#

Which piece of lore?

astral bluff
#

All daedric gods hate molags mantle

lucid coral
#

Where did you get that from?

astral bluff
#

I read akatoshs Lore and others to put the pieces together

#

I mean who would want to like the mantle molag has

lucid coral
#

So it's just an assumption then

astral bluff
#

Correction its a theory

lucid coral
#

Yeah. Theory. Realistically however it'd take something drastically abrupt for daedric princes to band together and take one out

astral bluff
#

But think about it

#

Mora is the god of knowledge he can easily rewrite a history

lucid coral
#

Like what happened in Ithelia or Trinimac's case and they weren't even actually taken out

wide garnet
# wide garnet I’m doing a follow-up to this one: Matthias: After studying the memory of the ‘...

Wrapping this up before bed:

Matthias: My report on my investigation of the High Hrothgar catacombs is as thus: first, the necromantic presence I sensed actually came from a spy that was loyal to Alduin! Fortunately, he was also one of 'the 17 disputants [that] couldn't shout [Jurgen Windcaller] down'. Second, I not only found the Shout that breathes life into a doll, but also the doll that the Akaviri who created the shout intended to use, which came all the way from Akaviir and was buried with him. Thirdly, I was able to determine what the Akaviri was after when he created the shout: he was trying to use it to bring his sister back to life (whose soul he kept within some kind of Akaviri 'soul gem') Fortunately, I was able to determine that the Shout he created was a one-time use thing; unfortunately, the end result was rather mixed. While the Akaviri girl (whom we're nicknaming 'Porcelana') was brought back to life, her personality is rather aloof and distant. On the other hand, she does wield a katana made out of the same ceramic that was used to create her (white with blue patterning and gold wire for the grip and gold for the guard) and is extremely skilled in Akaviri unarmed combat, which she used to completely destroy 100 Thalmor soldiers (including their commanding officer, whom was a veteran of the Great War). Right now, Porcelana spends her downtime in Skyhold "communing with the mountain", as she calls it.

lucid coral
#

Unless it's very specific

astral bluff
#

My other idea was killing molag temporarily

#

Taking his physical form and putting his soul into Thousands of black books

lucid coral
#

Also i don't think you can actually kill a daedric prince. Domination as a concept will remain no matter what

#

Someone else can just mantle it again and create a new Molag

astral bluff
#

Thats why temporarily is in it You cant kill a daedric god but you can trap them

lucid coral
#

Still tho as i said you'd need to do something REALLY abrupt to get smited by other princes like that

#

Terrorizing mortals sadly isn't something most other princes care about

astral bluff
#

You contradict your self you said ithelia was possible so Therefore Molag is possible ✌🏼😭

lucid coral
#

Yeah and Ithelia was legit a danger to everyone

astral bluff
#

What was ithelias mantle again

lucid coral
#

Untaken paths iirc

astral bluff
#

Mgm

#

Mhm* and you know molag bals power involves fear right

lucid coral
#

It does but he's not a threat to everyone else yet so they don't care

supple tangle
#

I just want to remind everyone that skyrim came out in 2011 and you are all old now.

astral bluff
#

Read my age in my bio man

supple tangle
nimble pond
#

Going on 300 here..

eager remnant
#

My daughter is in her 30s, lol. 30s is young to me.

timid drum
#

Ahh forgot, we got quite a number of vampires here lol

supple tangle
#

wow. wasn't expecting such a tame reaction. last few times I did this elsewhere I was told to shut up in not so polite terms.

nimble pond
#

The moderators pretty much keep this place in check. It's not like fans running their own discord server with their own moderators. This is the company's server. Not to say there aren't decent fan-based servers out there too.

primal torrent
feral viper
livid ingot
#

Dude just admitted they were fishing for a reaction

timid drum
#

Lmao yup

feral viper
#

I can be honest and fish for reactions at the same time.

thorny knot
supple tangle
primal olive
#

"falmer people" chai tea
northern folk people 🗣️
fal is cold or northern
mer is folk

livid ingot
pulsar root
#

Coldmer

primal olive
#

though fal probably means it in a personal and not object manner

#

hence span being snow but they're not spanmer

#

snow king would probably be fal-aran or fal aran, not span aran

supple tangle
primal olive
supple tangle
#

and I say this as a stormcloak/nord fan

primal olive
#

innocents died because both sides did crummy business

supple tangle
primal olive
supple tangle
primal olive
#

i agree tbh
the dwemer took trust and made slaves, they're gone and deserve to be

pulsar root
supple tangle
#

jokes on them tho cause now the dwemer are gone

primal olive
#

the war in the crag was a slave rebellion

primal olive
primal olive
supple tangle
primal olive
pale mica
#

Hi

primal olive
#

hello twin

pale mica
#

How is it going

nimble pond
wide garnet
nimble pond
wide garnet
livid ingot
astral hollow
nimble pond
pale mica
#

Hi

wide garnet
feral viper
wide garnet
pale mica
wide garnet
pale mica
feral viper
wide garnet
glass marlin
pale mica
#

Hi

feral viper
#

With the Tiger Warriors finally appearing in Warhammer after decades of teasing...

TES needs proper Raksasha

#

Hmm... Now I wonder if I can get Olden Era this weekend...

nimble pond
hallow coral
feral viper
#

It's a mix of vedic and islamic in influences.

hallow coral
#

not that even in eso you see much of it given they've resorted to making most races 'generic fantasy' other than their accents and architecture

feral viper
#

They've generally done better than Bethesda has for decades now.

#

Though I will forever be salty about the Bosmer. There's no recovering from that. Just burn Valenwood to the ground.

#

Though, my opinion on the setting as a whole is staggeringly low these days. So I won't go further into that.

#

Not here, at least. This discord isn't the place for it.

lucid coral
#

I doubt they'll ever repeat that

primal olive
#

its really easy to remove the tes branding and make it some random game

astral hollow
#

Portals that lead to another world with monsters, is definitely something that reminds me of Disney.

Disney has some good generic fantasy stories, but it's awesome when the Elder Scrolls does its own thing. However the one thing that does make Oblivion really eerie is the Dark Brotherhood that's what gives it the balance.

pulsar root
#

Portals a very typical Fantasy world thing.

hallow coral
#

Skyrim would be better if Call Dragon worked like summoning a dragon does in Merlin

#

OOHHHHHHHDRAGON

lucid coral
feral viper
#

I think being genericified would have helped the Dark Brotherhood.

#

They were more Sunday Morning Cartoon'd

lucid coral
#

Yeah. Skrim and ESO had to do a lot of course correction on their writing. Not to say they 100% succeeded but still

#

Practically every faction in Oblivion was butchered writing wise one way or another

#

Except maybe the fighter's guild because their writing was always mediocre

feral viper
#

Nah, it was still really bad.

#

Like, how incompetent does the Guild have to be, to be losing contracts to another Merc company that regularly kills its clients?

tardy tiger
#

Imperials being butchered so much "Provinces" and the Legion don't work anymore

feral viper
#

Oblivion is just an absolute mess.

lucid coral
#

Between Morrowind and Oblivion they suddenly became the most selfless faction in the world ig

#

The Empire in general is so oddly depicted. In MW they set up that it's in decline and there's unrest over the Emperor's succession and then it's all just gone in Oblivion

feral viper
#

The only way to reconcile it is to make Ocato a moron who the legions largely just ignored, right each local commander acting independently during the crisis.

lucid coral
#

Yeah cos Skrim kinda rewinded that with the Legion pulling out of MW during the crysis. Doesn't fix everything but still

feral viper
#

Pulled out of Morrowind, knuckled down in Orsinium and Skyrim, was entirely routed in Summerset...

None of which makes sense of you take Ocato seriously in Oblivion

pulsar root
#

The word generic is overused in a a lot of discussion related to Gaming(And even Fantasy).

feral viper
#

True. It's not really specific enough to articulate the criticism

lucid coral
#

Ig a better way to say it would that they simply removed a lot of what made TES unique and chased normal ideas. Which isn't bad on it's own but throwing out existing ideas in favor of it is kinda wack

#

Take Aetherius for example. Oblivion just treats Aetherius as heaven and Oblivion as hell

#

Which.. not only is that a massive oversimplification it doesn't even make sense. Oblivion is like space, it has different planes in it. Some bad some good. Some neutral. Aetherius isn't even supposed to have any mortal afterlives

#

And they put Sovngarde in it for whatever reason

pulsar root
#

I prefer Aetherious being as some mostly unvisitable realm(And its where Magic is). I saw somwhere the source of Magic is the sun and that makes me go "ewww"

Oblivion realms strikes me as Daedra lands, not... "hell, even for mortals"

feral viper
#

It's similar to why the whole 'You can become the Nerevarine' thing drives me up the wall.

#

Overall point being, I think rather than Generic, I would describe it as Oversimplified.

#

It the gameplay, but the world.

Just look at the difference between the Dunmer, and the Nords.

#

The Dunmer were a blend of at least 4 different real world influences, with their own artistic and architectural styles, practices and religion.

The Nords are watered down Vikings.

lucid coral
#

What. What bad word did i use. What got flagged

#

Oh right. Exploi-

feral viper
#

It's so frustrating. Dyno should at least DM you with what flagged it.

#

It's why I try to break things up into smaller blocks. It helps with replying to specific points, but also means Dyno doesn't just nuke the entire thesis at once.

lucid coral
#

Granted it's still not as good as Morrowind's culture

#

But still. It's definitely way better than whatever Oblivion did with the Imps

pulsar root
#

The humans names in EG sometimes are just a bit too copypasting(Romans for Imperials, Viking/Norse). I want to say more but I can feel my grumpyside coming out

feral viper
#

Well, the Norse were a Germanic subset, and the Vikings were a profession within Norse culture.

So that all checks out.

lucid coral
#

Like a neat detail in Skrim that someone else pointed out recently. All the Stormcloak supporting holds are the original old way holds mentioned in PGE1

#

"The northern and western Holds -- Winterhold, Eastmarch, the Rift, and the Pale, known collectively as the Old Holds -- remain more isolated, by geography and choice, and the Nords there still hold true to the old ways"

feral viper
#

Alas, they don't seem to have any shred of those cultural characteristics left.

And gone are all the Celtic, Inuit, Pict and Yupik influences.

lucid coral
#

That is true but even with all the ommisions whatever culture they did have is still well executed imo

feral viper
#

I disagree. But I admittedly look for things most people don't, due to my academic background and interests.

lucid coral
#

Even religion wise despite the nuking of the old pantheon the actual artistic/architectural way the imp gods are depicted is still unique to Skrim. It's what makes the Solitude chapel feel so different because it's the only Oblivion style chapel

feral viper
#

I think ESOs Bosmer are the biggest reflection of this complaint for me.

Though the Altmer come close.

lucid coral
#

Oh come on Dyno.
Whatever.
No one sadly seems interested in writing the Altmer as anything more than "posh pricks who think they're superior than everyone else"

feral viper
#

When I read the Laurence Sctick interview where he said you can't build out of poetry, I literally yelled at the screen 'It should still INSPIRE poetry though!'

#

Summerset only depressed me though.

Valenwood made me actively angry.

#

It this isn't just a TES problem. It's become apparent it's a wholesale problem in all of Bethesda's games, and overflows into games they still have creative input on (like ESO).

#

The cultures and peoples in Fallout and Starfield are shallow as well.

Like they either don't want to, or aren't able to do more than make caricatures of cultures.

pulsar root
lucid coral
#

It's not even terrible. We just need more. More than what's there

#

More altmer characters. More insight into the aldmeri dominion. Their culture

tardy tiger
# lucid coral The Empire in general is so oddly depicted. In MW they set up that it's in decli...

Oblivion And Skyrim are in a weird spot in that you could quite easily remove the Empire with little changes.

Skyrim is really just changing Tullius' title and then the banner and soldiers of the Legion to the ones of Solitude.

Oblivion is way too much into Feudal kingdoms that the Empire feels pointless.

Oblivion's changes also adds another mess in that the Legion is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things within the Empire. Any Civil war is with the Feudal lords and not the Governors and Generals.

lucid coral
#

I'd say the issue is more how disconnected all of it is.

pulsar root
tardy tiger
lucid coral
#

Cos High Rock ain't responding. Hammerfell who knows what they're doing. Skyrim is pretty much all alone.

tardy tiger