#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 43 of 1

stable arch
#

I get you I’m more on the doomer side of I know it won’t be what it should be after all this time

#

But hopefully everyone else is correct and I’m insanely wrong

pulsar root
#

Well Kullman's idea for TES6 IMO is kinda dumb.

dim reef
#

I'm not talking about Kuhlmann. He just put forward some ideas that not everyone agreed with that's all.
Bruce is legit stirring up a storm

weary nymph
#

hi all, i've just started ESO and i'm a bit confused about how to access the dlc's. If I get ESO+, will I get everything included in the 2025 content pass? Thanks 🙂

eager remnant
jade plover
#

What was there?

dim reef
# jade plover What was there?

The biggest one is saying Morrowind completely failed to stand the test of time and anyone going back to play it would "cringe" AdoringFan

jade plover
dim reef
#

I mean people play Skyrim with mods too. His idea is rpgs don't need to have any complexities. He's the one who pushed for Skyrim to have completely streamlined mechanics

jade plover
#

Okay, if this is what he meant then yes,its good he left the company

dim reef
#

Now tbf i personally don't mind the removal of attributes but only because i think ES always handled them poorly.

Bruce instead says it's better because streamlining things is the way to go 😭

#

"Having 52 different races, 112 different magic systems, it's exciting for the people who've been there on the ride from the beginning but it's too challenging for people who are trying to get into it for the first time,"

"Obviously I had to persuade Todd [Howard] as he is the ultimate arbiter on these things, but I managed to do so," he continues. "I did a lot of the character systems, and one of Todd's philosophies early on in Oblivion, which I took to heart and [is] why I pushed so hard for these things, is that he wanted an interface-less game so ideally you just play the game. You just play it.

"It was about getting the character system out of the player's way. You don't have your head buried in menus, stats and rules. Just enjoy the moment. It is a way to do that. In every version of the Elder Scrolls where I had any say in character systems, that is what I would push for."

#

Todd said there should be less menu shuffling and he took it that means trying to gut everything XD

jade plover
#

I agree with Todd, i hate it when HUD takes too much space on a screen

#

So i don't understand why some people use mods to add huge health bars right above enemies heads, that looks so bad

pale mica
#

hi

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
#

Concept: New arrow type (mirror/spectral). Basically the idea allows you to fire arrows from normally unaccessible angles and also grab an early view of a room before you enter it. These arrows are also completely silenced. First shot (such as aimed at the ceiling above enemies) opens up a tiny keyhole while holding down the aim button (it dissapears and returns you to normal view when you let go) wherever you fire it. Every shot after allows you to shoot arrows thru this tiny keyhole view. Enemies cannot see or attack you thru it, but will obviously be alarmed when hit (unless insta-killed) and search around for you. If hit, it also ends the hidden view.
Another approach would be the creation and addition of shadow magic (stealth build support), or just working with the illusion school, making this a spell. In which you could possibly even pickup aim and drop objects into it, which propel them at accelerating speed before hitting it's intended target. Such as knocking out an enemy with a cheese wheel from the ceiling above or side of a wall, or uppercut style from the floor.

nimble pond
#

And with gravity being a thing in Starfield. We might just as well play more with that in TES. Such as spells that do things like creating a vortex that pulls enemies towards wherever you cast it. Dropping them down to their death afterwards. Or being impaled by objects, or other enemies, that are flung up behind them into the vortex, like a tornado. Upgrading telekinesis to not only grab and throw objects, but also work on opponents, allowing you to do things like grab them & repeatedly smash them into a wall until death like a ragdoll.

dim reef
jade plover
dim reef
feral viper
#

On the whole, my stance on creative decisions is pretty clear at this point.

But I do agree with Nesmith in terms of game design philosophy, even if I think Bethesda has struggled with it in practice.

tardy tiger
pulsar root
#

Cutting down on the menus is fine but that doesn't mean no menus at all lol. I think attributes ARE nice but you could cap them out quick in Oblivion. Cutting attributes out won't annoy me but i think they still have a purpose in the single player RPG. As for no Nord Pantheon so its not confusing.

I mean I think making all the lore vague is more confusing then having a Nord Pantheon but thats just me

noble verge
tardy tiger
#

Like from a timeline point the book is already post Tiber being an Emperor due to names used and I have a theory that it is written not long after Tiber becomes emperor due to Nord bias and demonising the Bretons because after all a "Witchman" killed Cuhlecain.

It tries to place the Battle of Sancre Tor itself way too early while PGE1 has Cyrodiil already taken before the battle of Sancre Tor which makes more sense from taking Sancre Tor to mess with the Kingdom of Falkreath then an possible new Cyrodilic Empire. Also that if they're still Falkreath why are you going to Sancre Tor instead of attacking Falkreath directly?

noble verge
#

There are a lot of sources that point out that the Nords' role in Talos' conquests going all the way back to Markarth when he supposedly first unleashed the Thu'um. Both the 1st and 3rd Pocket Guides mention the Nords' important military role in the Empire, and we meet a Nord soldier of Hjalti in TES V.

#

As for the Nords' faith itself, I believe the out of game lore about the totemic religion states that many of the gods don't have temples- some are dead and therefore are honored in Sovngarde, some are adversarial testing gods akin to the House of Troubles or the Khajiit faith's Adversarial Spirits, and Alduin is a prophesied end bringer.

tardy tiger
#

He was a general of the Kingdom of Falkreath so yes there's Nords but not the ones the Battle of Sancre Tor book claims

#

But we don't really get any idea of a "special" status.

The only things we hear of a special status is Hammerfell, Morrowind and I think Black Marsh?

noble verge
#

We know that Solitude was close enough to the Empire that several Emperors served as Jarls, and that the PGE 3E refers to Skyrim as the strong arm of the Empire.

From what we've seen in TES V, the only Imperial gods to make headway into Skyrim are those already worshiped by the Nords, with the Imperial interpretation of Kynareth becoming dominant over the Nordic Kyne, and the Imperial Arkay replacing the Nordic Orkey. The Nords don't worship Akatosh, crediting Talos as the dragon avatar who ended the Oblivion Crisis.

tardy tiger
#

Solitude is from Septims marrying others.
The Iliac Bay has plenty of people who married Septims. Edit: which is even the plot point of Daggerfall where only though with magical power (Underking, Mannimarco and Gortwog though whatever deal with the Direnni he had) or Tibers own blood.

noble verge
#

Switching to Arkay is a no brainer since he's helpful enough that even Manninarco takes him seriously as a threat, whereas Orkey is adversarial and even detrimental. You can only have so many vampire and necromancer crises before you decide you need a more useful God of the Dead.

#

As for Hjalti, I believe the Battle of Old Hroldan predates the Battle of Sancre Tor.

tardy tiger
#

Battle of Sancre Tor is after they've taken Cyrodiil.

So it's the Kingdom of Falkreath dealing with Reachmen, then fighting over Colovia and then a battle in Nibenay before Sancre Tor happens.

willow wing
#

Actress idea feedback for elder scrolls 6 to voice a female Nord companion character To travel with and other companions actress name is Catherine taber know for pademe from Star Wars clone wars 2008 movie and series she is amazing actress has experience with swords magic mediaeval games as well voice characters in that type of stuff so my idea for a character in the game was born in Skyrim and her parents are Alive and she has moved to hammerfell or what ever six takes place in has a sister that’s also travel to hammerfell or high rock they live a city . Her character idea blonde hair we’re steeplate armour is skilled hunter with bow and arrow uses one hand sword Idea for personality likes adventures helping people likes going after bounties fighting dragons likes dogs Hunting smithing dislikes dark brother hood any thing evil So yeah in my opinion Catherine taber is a great idea to voice a Nord companion character to travel with build a friendship with so yeah just my idea

junior kettle
#

If they do bring back attributes there should be more gameplay aspect over "they make some skills better and give you more carry weight/stamina/magic"

dim reef
#

That's my take too. Instead of mostly providing small numerical buffs to skills they should have unique functions like Fallout's attributes

#

Intelligence affecting XP gain and hacking.
Perception affecting Vats accuracy.
Charisma affecting barter and speech checks. Etc.

tardy tiger
#

Starfield had stuff I recall. Though it's been a while since I played it

feral viper
#

I'm of two minds regarding gradual vs impactful increases.

On the one hand, I think a lot of solutions for them become too gimmicky, with each perk/trait/level basically serving as a new power to use. Dragon Age is a good example of this.

On the other hand, when stats are too incremental it's very difficult to even notice the impact, and it becomes a grind experience just to master them to be functional. Morrowind is a prime example here.

So finding a little ground where the bonuses are impactful enough that you notice them, but not so profound they basically feel like MMO abilities, is more the goal..

#

At the same time, I think TES's Attributes have traditionally been garbage. For multiple reasons.

Too gradual.

Too universal.

Too uniform.

Too abstract.

And far, far too automatic.

junior kettle
#

Starfield did a good job with it's perk mechanic having dialogue, a better way to unlock and level them and feeling more impactful

feral viper
#

I definitely think that's got some legs to it, yeah.

#

In general though, I think Attributes as a concept are cool, but how they're typically handled is in need of a serious change.

Meanwhile, Skyrim's general dynamic was fluid enough that it could cover everything Attributes did, and more, all within a single system instead of multiple interacting ones.

#

So Skyrim's approach, while crude, remains the better direction.

It just needs to be refined.

dim reef
#

I personally think attributes should be more gimmicky. Have more weird checks and gameplay quirks based on attributes

#

Outer Worlds 2 did it well. Probably one of the best games in recent memory in terms of how it uses it's attributes

#

The sheer amount of checks and choices makes every attribute feel meaningful. They don't have drastic changes or anything but that additional flavor does wonders for role playing

#

I think more games should have it's flaw mechanic too. That is legit such a simple yet phenomenal idea

#

Reload too much before the mag is empty? You get a flaw where you get extra rounds per mag but if you empty a mag full there's a damage debuff

pulsar root
#

Flaw just makes me think of items or traits that have one positive one negative and honestly I ignore all of it I hate those kind of things. I still want Attributes back I think they help.

As for the "But spreadsheets are boring" Well...there's always going to be someone to min max things. Its just how it is. I suppose to combat it do interesting things with said attributes.

pale mica
#

hi

feral viper
#

Heya

feral viper
dim reef
#

Not something you simply pick and forget. It's like the skill system of TES but for perks

#

You only get them based on how you play

weary monolith
#

Ive never played an elder scrolls game before and was wondering do I play oblivion remastered first or the Skyrim special edition

pulsar root
#

I'd say Skyrim Special edition cause it still has modding to this day. Oblivion remaster looks very modern but it doesn't have the same mod support mainline games do.

weary monolith
feral viper
#

It definitely exists.

weary monolith
feral viper
#

It was one of the first mods that got released, in fact. People got it working before they even had mod support.

There's probably something more elegant now though. Back then, it was just replacing the Spiders with a t-posed Bear.

weary monolith
#

Tbh as long as it ain’t a spider we’re good

stable arch
#

I hope we can at least get a timeline this year

#

Like at least a rough estimate as to when the next ES will be done

#

ATP its gonna be 20 years after Skyrim

tardy tiger
feral viper
wide garnet
#

Before I head to work, I’ve got something I’d like to share from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

To General Tullius,

My latest report on Tama-Chan (as she likes to be called), and what she believes a Dragonborn should be, a bit of a doozy. One of the things she’s “helping” me learn to master is something called Onikaan do Dovahkiin, which is something that Dovah use to reshape spirits “as easily as a potter reshapes clay on the wheel”. To “help” me master this power, she’s summoned a spirit of love for me to “practice” on.

So far, she went from a small, skinny girl barely five feet tall to a 6 foot tall woman that’s absolutely “thicc” (the term one of the visitors to Skyhold used, though I’m not quite sure what that means) with both curves and muscles. However, she also has sharpened teeth and nails, and sprouted a dragon’s tail above her more shapely rump.

Although what Tama-Chan is planning isn’t clear, What is clear is that is lurking nearby and giggling dementedly.

stable arch
feral viper
dim reef
#

We might see a trailer this year. That's all i can say

#

It's already been 2 years. They should have enough to atleast throw together a trailer

sand kindle
#

So

#

You guys think the Mer won in the end? I think it would be a nice change.

#

its always men who win. balance must be achieved

#

with the return of the snow elves and the fall of the human empire.

#

The thalmor breaking the human war machine

pulsar root
#

The Thalmor won great war, got the most benefit out of it. "Human war machine" lol even.

sand kindle
#

yes but im refering post skyrim

#

im wodering if by the next TES, the mer will be in a better position, they rule themselves instead of bowing to the empire

#

If they find out that snow elves live , would the thalmor take a chunk of the nords lands for the new snow elf kingdom? that would be the most sane thing to do.

#

this also gives the mer a foothold in the north

pulsar root
#

There is no need. They already have control over Tamriel due to always having influence within the Empire. Snow Elves aren't really relevant short of a retcon or a new revalation that they survived.

tardy tiger
#

TBH it's not like TES bothered with the "Empire". It's hard to even tell what so called influence it even has.

#

If anything it's made it look more like Redguard made a mistake with them

fervent basin
# sand kindle im wodering if by the next TES, the mer will be in a better position, they rule ...

Lol, I'm playing The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered, and I'm reading a book about Vanus Galarion.
It concerns the Summerset Isles, and I was asking ChatGPT if that - considering the prevalance of ship building in Starfield - might be the planned location for TES VI 🙂

And after elaborating a bit, he explained that it would be strange, because you would be in the center of the Aldmeri Dominion, and that there is currently in the lore no rebellion against them in that region.
And that TES games always evolves around conflict:

Morrowind --> Morrowind : Daedric invasion / political struggle
Oblivion --> Cyrodiil: Oblivion Crisis
Skyrim --> Skyrim: Civil War / Dragon threat
Elder Scrolls Online --> Various eras: Inter-empire wars

I wanted to ask here what you all think would be the region or regions for the next TES game, and I see that you are already talking about it a bit 🙂

feral viper
#

Forums forever!

tardy tiger
#

And abominable intelligence made up a Daedric invasion in Morrowind.

fervent basin
fervent basin
# tardy tiger And abominable intelligence made up a Daedric invasion in Morrowind.

Yeah, honestly, I have Morrowind in my Library, but never played it
(I don't know if I could stand the ancient graphics, and who knows, I probably need quest pointers 😉 )
So I'm not up-to-date about the lore that much, or its story.

So I don't know if ChatGPT invented some BS or worded it in a different way in this case.
At least for TES IV and V , I know it's correct.

feral viper
weary monolith
#

What’s the plot of skyrim always wanted to play it but I don’t know what it’s about

timid drum
#

Basically, mess around and find out. Its easier to play it and experience it for yourself. Or look it up on your search engine

weary monolith
#

Thx

#

Can I be evil in skyrim?

timid drum
#

Absolutely

weary monolith
#

Heck yea

timid drum
#

You can do whatever you want. I will say, it is fun causing chaos.

weary monolith
#

Ive been waiting to play it bc i didnt have a computer so I couldn’t use a no spider mod

timid drum
#

Ahh thats alright, just avoid dugeons and you'll be alright. Spiders don't spawn out of dungeons.

weary monolith
#

Oh lovely that’s good to know still probs gonna install one just in case

timid drum
#

Understandable

weary monolith
#

Thx for that btw bc I didn’t know that

timid drum
#

Ofc

weary monolith
#

I’m gonna try it after I beat fallout 4

jade plover
#

Why do I get news about "Bruce Nesmith said something" literally every day?

worldly cypress
#

Well when he says something every day it's likely that you'll hear from him often.

dim reef
#

He said quite a lot of goofy things in that recent interview. I'd wager we'll hear about it for atleast another month

fervent basin
# weary monolith I’m gonna try it after I beat fallout 4

Same here, I'm playing Fallout 4 atm, but on Geforce NOW it seems broken.
It used to (re-)download the Anniversary Edition Creations perfectly fine (every new session, because new server instance).

But lately, when clicking "Yes" to download all creations the save depends on, closes the pop-up immediately and just shows the saves screen.
Downloading all of them manually through the Creations menu leaves the "Bunker Home Pack" still to be downloaded, and downloading that latter one again manually says "not enough space".

Skyrim Special Edition incl. all Anniversary Edition creations works perfectly fine and does not have the same issue.

So I can only play FO4 on my laptop upstairs (when I don't have to watch the dog, or our daughter)

So I picked up TES IV Oblivion Remastered (on GFN), because I want to do Skyrim concentrated only after FO4. I already have a Skyrim save, but I'll probably just start all over, though I'm L27 and have that farm-like estate already as a house.

weary monolith
fervent basin
#

Just tested it, it's still broken on GFN.
So will play it locally probably.
Or just TES IV Oblivion Remastered on GFN ...

Mh, decisions decisions 😉

junior kettle
#

Politics were involved with the great houses sure but they weren't really much of a struggle

pale mica
#

hi

feral viper
junior kettle
#

Dagoth Ur hated the daedra

feral viper
#

As I said, it's over simplifying.

#

It's like saying A Rage of Demons is an invasion from hell.

Technically it's an invasion from the Abyss, but it's close enough to count in general discussion.

ornate geode
#

What if Bethesda jumpscares us with a TES tv show seeing how the Fallout show was doin

feral viper
#

It'd definitely be a jumpscare, considering how disjointed TES is as a setting.

noble verge
#

For what it's worth there's plenty of things that could go wrong in Alinor. Maormer invasion, Sload incursion, Goblin uprising, or even just Boethiah and Vaermina coming to collect on favors granted.

junior kettle
#

God, I'd be so down for a game where the Maormer aren't enemies, better if they add Maormer as a new playable race

nimble pond
#

Personally, I need a gatling gun in TES. A TES-themed one. Whether it's like a hand-rotation flame-tipped, alchemy-ballistic spike thrower or a rotating barrel that shoots like ten different spells. Don't care, just want the gat.

lapis spire
#

does everyone else run into a million bugs / crashes while playing Oblivion Remastered on Steam? I have no mods installed, just the plain vanilla game, but it crashes every 10-20 minutes now. It seems like the more I play, the more often it crashes (as when I started my playthrough, it rarely ever crashed)

eager remnant
lapis spire
feral viper
# junior kettle God, I'd be so down for a game where the Maormer aren't enemies, better if they ...

Back when I was most annoyed at ESO's Summerset, I wrote a narrative concept for a Summerset game which involved the Empire teaming up with the Maormer to invade the isles, only to have their invasion fleet hobbled by the Thalmor using shards of Crystal Tower like beam weapons to cut the ships apart.

You'd the. Wash up on shore and work as a crude beachhead to start a nation wide revolt against the Thalmor and bring down the Dominion.

tardy tiger
worldly cypress
#

Nb4 the imperials were always maormer.

junior kettle
#

Nah just add a new race

#

Like how morrowind added imperials and orcs as playable

pulsar root
worldly cypress
feral viper
worldly cypress
noble verge
#

If it weren't for games being so slow to make nowadays and Bethesda not committing a studio solely to TES, I'd want Summerset to be TES IX, and by the time we get there the Thalmor have lost their fleet in the Iliac Bay, Elsweyr and Valenwood have seceded, the Imperials are prepping for an invasion, and the Maormer have returned to attack when Summerset is at its weakest.

#

And with the Thalmor losing their grip on power, they turn to the most desperate and dangerous measures to either stay in power or spitefully take the rest of the world down with them.

dim reef
#

They aren't that slow to make tbf. It's only Starfield that took 5 years because of covid. Otherwise it's been a steady 3-4 years per game

#

MW > Oblivion - 4 years
Oblivion > Fallout 3 - 2 years
Fallout 3 > Skyrim - 3 years
Skyrim > Fallout 4 - 4 years
Fallout 4 > 76 - 3 years
76 > Starfield - 5 years

jade plover
dim reef
#

What? No. Starfield only took 5 years because of the covid delay. It was originally meant to launch on 2022 i.e 4 years

jade plover
#

If we get tes vi in 2027 then
Fallout 5 - 2030
Starfield 2 - 2033
Tes vii - 2036

#

9 years actually

dim reef
#

Oh you mean sequence wise

jade plover
#

And its the fastest possible option

dim reef
#

I suppose although i doubt they'll focus on Starfield content anytime soon. It might be TES > Fallout > TES > Fallout

jade plover
#

Well, we can't know yet

dim reef
#

I'd personally be very surprised if they choose to make a Starfield game after Fallout 5

pulsar root
#

Yeah uhhh outside of whatever new DLC comes out for OG Starfield. I think Fallout is next after ES6.

pale mica
#

hi

thorny knot
junior kettle
#

Starfield is good

livid ingot
#

Starfield is the first Beth game that I lost interest in after playing a couple days. New IP had me excited, but it turned out empty of lore and empty of interesting things to do. Maybe if I had played long enough to do meaningful shipbuilding...

#

But this is TES chat

#

I hope that TES VI can learn from Starfield's example, both the good and the bad

pulsar root
#

There was lore but Its #elder-scrolls-general-chat not starfield general chat and don't wanna go too off topic. Only lesson IMO is well one big world space handcrafted works better in Bethesda's favor then well "thousands" of world spaces of empty planets.

tardy tiger
#

TBF Bethesda did do Oblivion and that destroyed Cyrodiil so it's really more level design wise.

dim reef
#

Starfield did prove to me that Bethesda can still write really good fictional religions. House Varuun is easily one of the best religious factions they've written in a long while so i atleast have hope they can handle Hammerfell's pantheon in an interesting way considering how wacky their gods are (if the game is set there anyway)

livid ingot
#

At the moment I don't think we should expect Hammerfell's gods to feature any more than the occasional reference

#

Until we see evidence to the contrary

dim reef
#

I don't think they'll repeat what they did with Skyrim. Besides Hammerfell should in theory have both an Imperialized pantheon and traditional yokudan pantheon so they can do both.

#

I hope atleast

tardy tiger
#

At most i'd expect them to be generic gods with easily replaceable names like in every TES game.

livid ingot
#

Reminds me, I've got to brush up on my Blender skills so I can mod the bejezus out of the next game

junior kettle
#

You got five years

noble verge
noble verge
#

And for what it's worth, all of the old Nordic pantheon is represented in some way in TES V. Those animal emblems and murals in Nordic ruins correspond to most of the Nordic pantheon- Shor is the fox, Mara is the wolf, Dibella is the moth, Tsun is the bear, Kyne is the hawk, Orkey is the snake, Stuhn is the whale, Jhunal is the owl, and Alduin is the dragon.

We also meet three of the pantheon (Alduin, Herma Mora, and Tsun) personally.

tardy tiger
dim reef
#

Tsun getting practically zero mention in dialogue is still wild to me. We meet the guy and he's given like zero build up.

tardy tiger
#

The pain of religion in TES5 is that it should've been a major thing for the Civil war instead of only Talos.

Nevermind the Empire's kinda just pointless at the moment since TES really didn't want to bother treating it like one. No coverting of its so called provinces and so ruling of their own so called provinces. Might as well just call Skyrim a client state or just remove the Empire and make Skyrim a purely Nord thing

dim reef
#

Shor himself is referenced like three times in dialogue throughout the entire game

tardy tiger
#

Better then Shezarr will ever have. rip any chances of him

livid ingot
# noble verge It'd make sense because unlike the Nordic pantheon, the Yokudan gods are entirel...

They aren't wholly different. Certainly not in a order of magnitude way. Mara is there (Morwha) as is Malacath (Malooc), then there's Zenithar (Zeht) and Lorkhan (Sep), and Arkay (Tu'whacca) and Tava (Kynareth).
Sure, they're supposed to have loads of deities but we've never seen that. It seems even less likely to make it into a game. Meanwhile it's fairly easy to draw equivalents with the pantheon we already know. Even if some of them are a bit less clear (e.g. Ruptga)

#

Beth is well within their creative rights to draw direct parallels where none existed before, if they so choose

noble verge
#

It'd make sense since Skyrim has always been viewed as the strong arm of the Septim Empire, not a subjugated foe.

tardy tiger
# noble verge From what I've seen, the Empire mostly governed Skyrim through puppet high kings...

The age old problem is them throwing in Governors in PGE1 and then not bothering when Skyrim was meant to be just a normal province. Morrowind had protections and Oblivion just gave up and pretty much deleted Imperial Government.

The Imperials are honestly a bad retcon from how little they really changed so they should've stayed Bretons. We don't even know how High Kings work with Province Governors since their writing pretty much gave up.

noble verge
#

PGE 1E and Redguard took place in a different era. For the Empire's governance to be different centuries later in a different region isn't really a retcon.

#

Morrowind probably had Imperial magistrates because the Dunmer had their own laws and legal system separate from the Empire.

feral viper
#

Tu'whaaca for instance is pretty clearly just Arkay. And Ruptga has more and more just been associated with Akatosh.

#

ESO has made it pretty clear that there is only one 'Pantheon', they're just known by different names in different places.

feral viper
tardy tiger
# noble verge PGE 1E and Redguard took place in a different era. For the Empire's governance ...

It's literally the same Empire ruled by the same people. TES3 attempted Governors but it's only with Dren as a "Duke" who rules the district of Vvardenfell

The people that should be ruling themselves is Morrowind and Hammerfell because that's the literal point of their treaties. If they're going to ignore it then it's only pointing to how pointless retconning the Imperials in is. If they wanted Feudal kings ruling about everywhere then they should have never retconned the Imperials in and just left them as the renaissance Bretons from TES2.

feral viper
#

Well, PGE1 and Redguard were during the same era.

But Morrowind is 400 years later. So there could be differences between the Empire in the PGE1, and in Morrowind.

#

Specifically to Hammerfell, the treaty was with the Crowns. The Forebears were already pro-Empire and loyal vassals. If the balance of power had shifted between Crowns and Forebears through the time between Cyrus and Morrowind-Onward, there's not necessarily any reason the treaty would even stand any more.

noble verge
#

It also bears mentioning that as of Redguard and the PGE 1E, Tiber Septim had not yet finalized how the Empire would be run. According to the Underking in TES II, he got rid of royal families that were not entirely loyal to him in order to ensure that the monarchies of Tamriel would be headed by those loyal to him. This is consistent with what we see of how the Empire runs things in the mainline games- with provinces being governed by regional monarchs who in turn are supposed to be loyal to the Empire.

#

We actually have an example of an Imperial governorship being replaced by a monarchy, with Morrowind. Symmachus was the Imperial governor, but it was a temporary station until Barenziah became queen, at which point he would become her prime minister. Or he would have, if he hadn't married her.

tardy tiger
#

And there's already another governor to replace it with whatever the Imperial Proconsul was.

noble verge
tardy tiger
# noble verge The fact that he has a title of Duke makes me think Vedam Dren is directly subor...

He has the Imperial Guard defending him so it's more Imperial bureaucracy (the guys in Silver plate).

The Imperial Guard is an elite unit of the Imperial Legion. The Guard is charged with the defense of the Emperor and various of his direct representatives in the provinces.

The headache of "Imperial bureaucracy" if it even exists is that we have no idea what position the King of Morrowind and the Imperial Proconsul have or if it's intentionally a way to make things messy.

noble verge
#

He may be guarded by and working with the Empire, but he's still the bearer of a noble, hereditary title in a monarchy- and he's of the same noble house as King Llethan. It also says a lot that Orvas Dren- an infamously anti-Empire figure- is confident that he could obtain the position of duke if his brother were to meet an untimely death, with no concern for what the Imperial authorities might think of it.

We also know that the title of Duke of Mournhold is borne by the King of Morrowind.

tardy tiger
#

Vvardenfell is not a Duchy though. It's a district.

Ebonheart is the seat of the Imperial government for Vvardenfell district, and a busy center of maritime trade. Castle Ebonheart is the home of Duke Vedam Dren, the district's ruler and Emperor's representative. -Guide to Vvardenfell

Morrowind is split up by 6 districts as far as we know which was great houses and then Vvardenfell.

Slavery is uncommon in Redoran and Hlaalu Districts, common in Telvanni, Indoril, and Dres Districts - Brallion (person's a slave trader)

feral viper
tardy tiger
feral viper
#

The Lord High Chancellor of Podunk Township.

#

Pharoah of Aisle 7

tardy tiger
#

King of the Universe.

What does that mean?

I own this house

feral viper
#

And by own, we actually mean 'have a 6 month contractual lease'

#

It's genuinely bad enough, I would not be surprised if we saw a High Patriarch of Akatosh... That was a woman.

noble verge
noble verge
tardy tiger
noble verge
#

Helseth's guards are private guards brought over from Wayrest, along with a few Hlaalu-affiliated guards that served the previous king.

Archmaster Venim also has private household guards not affiliated with his Great House, called Blood Guards in the unused journal entries for a cut quest.

hollow lodge
#

I pray to god Bethesda doesn’t make a elder scrolls tv show

timid drum
#

It would be funny imo

pulsar root
#

naw

astral hollow
#

what would be the many disadvantages of an Elder Scrolls show

livid ingot
#

You only have to think about how Argonians and Khajiit would be handled to never have the slightest desire for a TES show

#

Maybe an animated series could work, but seems an unlikely route for a spinoff

timid drum
#

I mean there is a parody for it, forgot the creator but its on YouTube

hollow lodge
#

I feel like what baldurs gate did with there little animated shorts would be cool as like a little funny parody show but I feel like if they made anything live action it would end up just being game of thrones but elder scrollsified

astral hollow
#

Also an animated series of Elder Scrolls may end up being compared to The Record of Lodoss war, but that might be a great thing due to both the Elder Scrolls and Lodoss both being heavily inspired by D&D

pulsar root
#

Pretty sure even normies don't even know that show or even what ES is.

astral hollow
#

How would the animated series work? Would it be anime inspired like Legend of Korra or would it be more like Lara Croft the show?

noble verge
#

They'll never be able to surpass the High Isle trailer.

nimble pond
#

I'd prefer it be a spin-off if they were to do a show. Meaning completely different races, setting, and all that. Like it would be within the TES universe, just not in Tamriel or on Nirn itself. But some other planet within the same universe. They could have Easter Egg swaps between the show and game for sure tho and small connections. Possibly some small DLC. In a way, I wish they'd explore other countries in the world for the Fallout show, but who knows if that'll ever happen. 🙄

tardy tiger
#

If they want something safe they'll probably go to High Rock where once it's at least confirmed they'll go to Morrowind to glaze the Dunmer or something given how much bias there is towards them.

nimble pond
#

Safe, safe, safe. Death of creativity. Wittle it down into a dull stone for rock soup.

tardy tiger
#

Creativity is already pretty dead. They used it all on the Dunmer

nimble pond
#

Even more so, I'm thinking of all the other brilliant ideas starting out there in the artworld on all kinds of projects from different people and companies that get turned into mush.

livid ingot
#

It's not just safe, but cheap too

#

If you want to save money, you could reuse some medieval sets

#

Film in castles, etc

#

The non-human provinces would be totally off limits for sure

#

Unless you spam CGI slop

#

A TES show would surely get the cheapest CGI, so you'd want to limit its use as much as possible

#

If you're smart

pulsar root
#

I'd wait a few years before a TV Show(Mostly cause TV is just Streaming but cable now but thats a rant for a different channel). Mostly because unless you're Game of thrones. Fantasy world TV Shows don't always hit hard.

Oh and capitalism may screw any creativity over.

nimble pond
#

I mean LOTR got alot of love.

pulsar root
#

The movies did. TV Show got hammered hard.

nimble pond
#

Amazon.. I don't know what it is, but alot of the stuff they make leaves me feeling like idk.. like I've been lobotomized. The Fallout show was one of their few things that was refreshing and not because of it's setting, but I actually liked the zaney script.

feral viper
#

There's no real reason why a TES show wouldn't be doable, beyond the mess of the setting it's self. Even Argonians and Khajiit aren't really that difficult to achieve in this day and age, both with practical effects and CGI.

Just look at Star Wars aliens for example. They've been consistently pulling that off on shows for years.

dim reef
#

I also doubt a TES show of all things would get cheap cgi. Fallout's season 1 had a 153 million dollar budget and S2 apparently had even more funding

pulsar root
#

Well its Amazon. They tend to do that. Spend enourmous amounts of money on budget that is(See LOTR Tv Show)

feral viper
#

Yeah, budget wouldn't be the problem. Content, and the setting, would.

feral viper
#

Bethesda's worldbuilding reputation is undeserved. And there would be a lot of work to flesh out the world sufficiently to make it coherent.

Other IPs that have been picked up for shows have already been pretty well filled out or defined. And even then, some of them have struggled.

#

Now, some of that has been because of showrunners, some of it has been because of problems adapting source material, some of it has been due to licensing issues, etc.

So it's definitely not a one dimensional thing. But series' with far more stable foundations have had struggles, so while the effects definitely aren't a problem, there are still issues.

dim reef
#

I mean. If they can make a coherent show out of something like League of Legends of all things I'm sure they can do TES fine

feral viper
#

It can definitely be done.

Though to be honest, I think it's best shot would be to not involve anyone at Bethesda it's self. Pull a LotR, and pick a few fans from r/TESlore instead.

dim reef
#

Would be better to have both. The Fallout show for example uses a bunch of fan content.

feral viper
#

It's also an IP that Bethesda clearly loves. The difference in quality has been pretty stark in that regard.

#

The setting for TES almost feels like a burden rather than a passion for the studio.

#

The biggest thing TES has going for it right now, is the game it's self.

Unfortunately, that has no carry over to the screen. So you'd be relying entirely on the setting, story and characters. All of which are paper thin.

#

Well, and the art style.

But let's be real. Even the most rosey eyed people here have to acknowledge that the art style of TES has been about as consistent as Roman politics.

junior kettle
#

I mean there's a difference between using fan content and scrapping the reddit and just wholesale stealing stuff without any credit

#

Like the map where now we have "Siri's Town" as an official fallout location

nimble pond
#

If they don't want certain content being used, whether freely or with monetary value, simply keep it in your personal vault until they decide what they want to do with their ideas.

junior kettle
#

I think people should be credited and paid for their work but didn't realize that was a hot take

nimble pond
#

Not really a hot take, all I'm simply saying is if you have certain ideas you don't want "stolen," then don't post them. I post whatever cause I really don't care who uses what. Anything important to me that I have future ideas for I keep to myself for now.

junior kettle
#

So a multi-billion dollar company shouldn't just make up their own stuff or pay/credit people for the works they made?

#

A map isn't hard to make when we have a ton already about the west coast yet they still take stuff from the community without proper credit. That is kinda messed up and I don't want that to become the standard, even if a TES show is made.

inland latch
#

ive been thinking about this for awhile and i think bethesda really has become to bloated to work as a business its legit gonna be 2038 for a best case fallout and their elder scrolls will have been around 21 years since skyrim released its beyond stupid and obviously they need to streamline their process

#

it takes 8-12 years to design and build a rocket to go into space it shouldnt take twice that for a video game these devs have lost the plot

junior kettle
#

Yea the industry needs to be reigned in because the wait times are ridiculous

nimble pond
#

Before this turns into a rat's nest, people have been copying bits from other people's work for years. So who's the original?TES itself has alot of DnD influences and even elsewhere. I just know at the end of the day, Bethesda has the legal rights to TES. If you want to post something without it being stolen, seek legal.

junior kettle
#

It's not even just a bethesda problem

inland latch
#

its not but theyre amongst the worst offenders its a industry thing and it will kill it

junior kettle
#

There's a difference between taking content someone made and claiming it as your own vs using something as a influence

inland latch
#

why would any investor put forth 800m for a 10 year wait on return thats held hostage by endless creative cycles when you can just triple your return investing in index funds etc

junior kettle
#

Multi-billion dollar company can afford to pay a fan for their idea

nimble pond
#

Anyway

nimble pond
pulsar root
#

Covid affected everyone in game dev.

inland latch
#

impacted their minds to think a 21 year wait between titles is acceptable

nimble pond
inland latch
#

it will kill the triple a industry as any other investment will be more profitable with quicker returns

#

legit sitting that money in a bank and letting it grow off interest for 21 years will prob have a greater return then the new title

#

cant wait for ai to swoop in and save us maybe then people will put in a hard days work when they see the jobs disappearing

pulsar root
junior kettle
# pulsar root Covid affected everyone in game dev.

Not even just that but it's constant management issues throughout various studios, even former devs of Starfield and 76 have stated Bethesda has some management issues. The only game companies to not have these have been companies like Nintendo, Capcom and Sega who can release multiple games by the same studios in the span of five years with each one seeing financial success.

junior kettle
inland latch
#

ai will save it tbh

junior kettle
#

No lol it won't

inland latch
#

na it def will ai wont need to take a year off for emotional stress

junior kettle
#

It's a money fire that makes workloads worse because devs have to correct it's work, there are numerous studies showing that AI has just made workload way worse

inland latch
#

if it takes 21 years for a modern studio to make a game i am willing to embrace ai

junior kettle
#

Plus AI products don't make money and game studios are currently seeing a lot of pushback on using AI

inland latch
#

its a new industry give it another 3 years to cook

#

they see pushback from twitter no one else cares

#

ill be real a lot of the ai art is better then what these twitter artists complaining produce already

junior kettle
#

You know the rising cost of electronics, especially computer parts, are directly related to AI burning through resources, yea? We've gave it that three years, it's a failure

inland latch
#

this is like people saying im not a computer person back in 2001

#

you wont have a calculator in your pocket etc

#

at the time it seemed right because of the current limitations but it quickly grew beyond the scope of those and ai will too

junior kettle
#

Bethesda just needs to scale down their worlds and learn a more is less ideology to game dev, why I said the next TES game shouldn't be province wide because it means they can focus on one specific region and work on making that area feel fleshed out, like how the Yakuza games are open world but their worlds are more compact and filled with a lot of attention to detail

inland latch
#

and tbh if the games are janky at first because of ai thats fine, its better then 21 year waits between titles

#

because the titles are still janky and buggy after waiting over 20 years

junior kettle
#

you don't need the entirety of a province, focus on a specific region, flesh it out, contain the stories to that region, make expansion packs that add in more regions

#

They should also use that microsoft money to bring back the legends and adventures idea

inland latch
#

microsoft is better off cracking down and focusing on productivity fire the people who suggest 20 year timelines and hire younger hungry devs

#

remove some of the democratization thats happened too and let the senior employees make the decision without weeks of meetings

dim reef
inland latch
#

its not like they are actively doing anything with the game and the user has to buy the game first before paying the mod authors

dim reef
#

This is like saying fans should get paid if their content is referenced in official media.
Which even Bethesda themselves have done before

nimble pond
#

Too much dependence is being invested on ai. Ingredients in the pot for crash and burn.

inland latch
#

i would see if the devs were actively working on the game and putting out content but thats not the case so why does it matter

dim reef
#

What're you talking about?

inland latch
dim reef
#

Why would they need to buy the game to access what I'm talking about? They referenced maps, cosplays and some other things which you can simply view for free

#

Do you even know what exactly i was talking about?

nimble pond
dim reef
#

Saying people should get paid for the mere concept of referencing their content is a wild idea especially for a company like Bethesda which is very open about their own assets and content being used almost anywhere

feral viper
dim reef
#

Eh. Skyrim is pretty colorful.

#

Nightskies with the northern lights especially look really vibrant and beautiful

nimble pond
#

Everything is one color at night for my Khajiit

pulsar root
feral viper
#

Back to the earlier point, I don't mean taking fans and giving them direct creative control. I mean leaning on fans as a lore resource, because they typically know more than the developers themselves do

#

We've seen this sort of thing play out time and again, with D&D, Warcraft, and even Bethesda themselves.

A lot of the times, the fans are just more obsessive and detail oriented than the creators. So they're the prime source to go to when building out representations of a fictional world.

Most of the time, they're even able to come at you with the sources, because they're used to having to back up their claims..

#

Stuff like Jackson bringing Colbert to the set of Lord of the Rings to get his input, recognising the Colbert is a lifeline OBSESSIVE Tolkien fan and arguably one of the biggest Arda lore experts on the planet.

#

I think the reason Fallout, as a show, has done so well, is that it seems like Bethesda were fans first, creators second.

TES doesn't have that same relationship. It's something they made from the start, not something they fell in love with and THEN got the ability to make stuff for.

And that different dynamic may actually hurt the idea of a TES show, more than help it.

feral viper
slim flint
#

any elder scrolls online groups? wanting to make friends in eso

eager remnant
pliant stag
#

Hello
I would like to know if anyone is currently a werewolf on The Elder Scrolls Online?

livid ingot
harsh crown
pale mica
#

Hi

nimble pond
#

Sincerely hope there isn't a single sweet roll in the next TES. Just so I can stumble into a single cave stashed with thousands of sweetrolls from all across Tamriel, hoarded by the one-and-only sweetroll bandit. But he/she did manage to soulgem some of them to create gingerbreadmen sweetrollmen (only to way to stop them is thru fire magic or enchantment) to help keep everything tidy.

glad shadow
pulsar root
#

Sweetrollocide

astral hollow
#

Guard someone stole my sweet roll, I was looking forward to that treat all day.

Several other complaints Later

"Let me guess, someone stole your sweet roll."

astral hollow
pulsar root
#

Its pretty immersive to me. Its not perfect but... its Elder Scrolls.

dim reef
#

If we're talking about immersive-ness my main criticism has always been presentation. They need to hire better animators and scene designers.

nimble pond
#

Ehh, for me atmosphere and sound is the most immersive. Where I can just close my eyes & stand completely still and hear an entire world around me, even in the middle of nowhere, the sounds of nature and the planet itself. White noise. Beautiful environments really fill it up too.
Animations and cutscenes I can do without, but each to their own.

dim reef
#

I want both. Their sound and environment design is obviously great but quests could use some cinematic flair with more curated animations

#

Especially scripted sequences

feral viper
#

Immersion is one of those weird things that is less something that you can design for, and more something that is a product of good design.

feral viper
#

I do otherwise agree with a lot of what the article is saying though. Even if I don't necessarily agree with the examples on how to improve.

livid ingot
#

I will say that one of the primary things I want out of the next TES is a more fully realized world. I want more convincing physics, nature, daily life, people. Not too long ago I watched a YouTuber do a deep dive on the birds - or rather lack there of - in Skyrim. It would be amazing if the next game had birds. It would be great if the next game had a working firmament and seasons. Where are the shoemakers? The bakers? The candlestick makers? Can we have a greater diversity of ages and body types?

#

It's a tall order sure, but that's where my priority would lie, emphasizing the "live another life" aspect of the games.

#

Much moreso than story, mechanics, etc

#

That's something few game developers outside of Bethesda have the capacity to do. They should emphasize it as part of their niche in the market

#

That's why I'll be buying TES VI, anyway.

#

Gib me the fantasy life simulator Beth

feral viper
#

The problem being, every time a game has tried to simulate something like that... It's ultimately been a waste of time because players just ignore it for gameplay.

livid ingot
#

If there's any aspect of the games that's notoriously ignored it's the main story

#

But I think that criticism is overly harsh. It's like an orchestra. People don't always notice every little instrument but they appreciate the experience

feral viper
#

There's definitely a balancing act between too much investment, and not enough.

pulsar root
livid ingot
nimble pond
livid ingot
#

After they were added you could hardly imagine how you didn't miss them in earlier games

feral viper
#

I tend to lean more on the practical side of things. You need good core gameplay first, then can flesh out other things.

#

If TES had a sufficiently refined core gameplay loop, I'd be all for investing time in the world.

But it doesn't. And the gameplay needs a lot more work to just bring it up to par, whereas Bethesda's worldspaces are at least decent by modern standards.

#

The bones are there, sure. But right now its like someone Weekend and Burnies-ing a Spirit Halloween skeleton.

Have to put some real meat on those bones.

nimble pond
#

Speaking of bones. I love fossils and digging (must of been a dog in my previous life). Could be another way to spread out loot to find (like when just outdoors in open space, not in dungeons, buildings, or cities, but could be there too. Hidden stuff under floorboards for example), whether coin or something more useful, knowledge, unique weapons, etc. Maybe we could even dig up the pieces to be part of a quest that brings back to life an extinct species using a mixture of mage scholarship & necromancy (forbidden I know and a mad science).

feral viper
#

Look. I have a lot of criticisms about Bethesda, and TES.

But if they put in Archaeology or Paleontology? I don't care what the rest of the game is, 10/10, right there.

nimble pond
#

I mean a past history available to study before men, mer, beast, aedra, or daedra ever set foot on Nirn could be intriguing.

nimble pond
#

While I do really like the idea of seasons and weather. I also like the idea of some small areas on the map having unique and bizarre seasonal or weather effect(s) that never change and have been the same everyday for years. Like a dark forest of eternal rain, thunder & lighting. The water itself within nullifying all forms of magic, useful in potions/cooking. A Glowing forest that has no daylight or sun, due to some effect of the treetops completely absorbing all of it and acting as an altered version of a starry sky (possibly leaf-shaped or outlined) when looking up from within, constantly moving, swirling, flickering lights or something creative like that. Even the wildlife itself would glow, flowers and all that too. You could take some of the substance with you to create glowtorches of any color for use anywhere on map or for alchemy, even enchantment use to give glow effects to armor/weapons and furniture, crafting. A snowy grotto in the middle of a hot desert.

dim reef
bronze adder
dim reef
#

Hello everybody

celest tinsel
feral viper
#

Has never actually accomplished that.

Wild Hunt was about 'Alive' as a Chuckee Cheese, and Cyberpunk is STILL so janky it makes Bethesda games look polished.

#

Referencing CDPR to me isn't going to be a winning argument unless you bring specifics.

Because they're overrated.

pulsar root
feral viper
#

We differ there. I find fluff NPCs instantly take me out of it, and emphasise the fakeness and prescribed nature of video game worlds.

#

Now, my position on that has changed over the years, and may well change again.

But currently, when I encounter games with generic NPCs, it instantly tells me game information that takes me out of the 'world'. It makes it so you can tell who is relevant and useful, who is going to be worth talking to, who may have quests or may be involved in quests, etc.

And these things are great from a game design stand point. But they aren't part of a living, natural and realistic world.

celest tinsel
#

You'll never have the degree of interactivity you want. Red Dead Redemption and Cyberpunk are probably the peak of it. That is unless they start using AI for video games.

feral viper
#

And to be clear, I don't actually WANT those kinds of simulation heavy, fake-living worlds.

At the end of the day, I think they take too much effort and yield too few results. At least for RPGs.

In Rimworld? Sure, I eat that stuff up. But in an RPG? 90% of that fluff does nothing for storytelling or characters.

#

I would rather TES's traditional approach, over Fallout or Cyberpunk.

Every time I see a game with 'Citizen' or 'Settler' or 'Resident', all it tells me is that they want the illusion of life with none of the work.

#

Of course, and it's been awhile since I said this...

I don't think RPGs are immersive games. There has never been an RPG, in my 30+ years of gaming, that I would call immersive. I think the medium it's self just fundamentally conflicts with what I find immersive.

celest tinsel
#

Skyrim has the most trash ass RPG elements in RPG games, and that's coming from a diehard Skyrim fan who mods the game to make it more immersive

feral viper
#

Skyrim has fantastic RPG elements. It just uses them terribly.

But that's a chronic problem with Bethesda. Even when they stumble into the right tools, they never use them well.

celest tinsel
#

No it doesn't its a hack'n'slash with some rpg elements. You can't be truly good because you cannot kill the Thieves Guild, you can't avoid certain quests or have alternative endings forcing you to be evil i.e the quest for the Argonian in Soltitude, no spell-crafting, no recognition for your actions, no discernible differences in being a specific race aside maybe one or two dialogue lines, no classes, no real impact. The NPCs ultimately have maybe one or two quests then are stuck in an infinite repeat cycle for schedules. You can't play the game differently, however, it has the same outcome regardless of what you choose. Aside from maybe destroying the Thieves Guild and/or the Dawnguard/Volkihar. It's really not an immersive RPG and should not be the standard for any future immersive RPGs if that's what you're aiming for.

feral viper
#

You instantly lost the plot at 'Be good by murdering a bunch of people'

pulsar root
#

"Can't be truly good"

Well ok I disagree but sure.

feral viper
#

First off, 'Narrative Choices' are not inherently RPG elements.

Second, Classes are garbage mechanics that only have a functional place in party-driven RPGs.

Third, by literally changing ZERO mechanics, and only changing the perks within the game, Skyrim's RPG elements could cover everything Classes, Attributes and Birthsigns did, AND MORE. That Bethesda gave us bad Perks isn't the fault of the system.

#

And finally, again...

I don't think you can make an immersive RPG. The genre ACTIVELY FIGHTS IT.

#

Ignore immersion. It's a worthless metric.

Focus on things that matter. Character diversity, activities, and the core gameplay loop.

noble verge
#

I'd forego wiping out the Thieves Guild because it'd make Glover Mallory sad.

feral viper
#

Personally, I think when your solution to a problem is 'Kill them', you've instantly lost the moral high ground and can't call yourself good.

noble verge
#

It's an RPG, you can't walk two steps without having to kill a few people just to keep yourself alive for another day.

#

(And I know, there's a huge difference between defending yourself and going into the Ratway to kill a bunch of non-hostile hooligans)

feral viper
#

Oh, absolutely. And I do think that in some cases violence can even be justified.

You can be good, and do bad things.

But to call one's self TRUELY good, your hands better be blood free. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

#

But that's getting into a much deeper moral rabbit hole that isn't really needed here.

#

Specific to the point, the fact the prompt was 'Kill the Theives Guild' and not 'Arrest the Thieves Guild' instantly makes the premise morally invalid.

next void
#

Very good.. One question, can I ask my questions here and ask for help with my game Skyrim I have had Problems with it and I don't know where else to turn or how to get them to fix it, help

nimble pond
next void
#

It's more about the game itself, the sound.

dim reef
#

It's not without it's issues. Sure. Some things were definitely dumbed down. Drugs for example were borderline useless compared to MW and Oblivion

#

Movement was severely gutted. Levitation, Athletics etc. all gone

#

But even with all that it still managed to be a good system

trail dust
trail dust
wind estuary
#

Thinking about playing the elder scrolls. What games should I start with?

next void
bitter kestrel
#

Let's please refrain from calling other games garbage folks

nimble pond
#

lou lou lou I've got some apples

nimble pond
dim reef
#

That's a really odd comparison

#

Both 3/NV are closer to Oblivion. Skyrim is more closer to 4

#

I'd say ESO and 76 are similar as well but their core gameplay is a bit too far apart

celest tinsel
#

I'm a Skyrim fanboy and make Skyrim mods but I'm not going to pretend its this top tier RPG, when its RPG elements are totally gutted

noble verge
#

Heck, I'm pretty sure most of the Riften guards deserve to be thrown in a cell as much as the Guild.

dim reef
feral viper
feral viper
feral viper
dim reef
#

I hate her >: (

#

If i start describing all the different ways i want to torture her I'll probably cross the sfw rating on this server so I'll leave it at that

feral viper
#

Lol, fair I suppose.

#

Can't be worse than what I want to do to Ulfric.

last dew
#

Really hope Elder Scrolls 6 takes place in either High Rock or Hammerfell or both. I want to be a true Knight of Tamriel. The Knight of the Nine Kingdoms of Tamriel.

#

Oh, btw, Karliah is a grandaughter of Queen Barenziah.

wanton niche
#

You ever get a random burst of inspiration? I just thought of a nice way to change how future elder scrolls handle enemies level syncing with you, but I'm not sure if it'd be too hard to implement, or at least communicate.

bitter kestrel
wanton niche
#

So I'd call it the "Procedural Reputation System". Some games had the problem of things where crafting skills and the like would still power level enemies, but what if they ALSO grew in different "Skills" as well? So when you level a crafting skill, enemies in the next area would level up in "Goods and Materials" so they'd have stronger gear to fight you with, but also drop better and more frequent materials. If you were an infamous stealth archer, enemies would start bringing spells or items that would help spot you in the dark like torches and start wearing armor specifically built for arrows. The system would be called that for threefold reasons: One, It'd be procedurally generated, Two "Your Reputation Precedes you." and Three it'd work in a kind of rock paper scissors system for combat.

#

Now obviously it'd be really hard to implement a system like this, but in order to make it fair and rewarding to the player, they could make it so the techniques you unlock for the weapon skills act as interrupts to other attacks, like you can break a guard with a power strike from a two handed weapon, or sweep if someone's doing an overhead. But obviously I'm not a professional or anything, just... eager I guess?

noble verge
#

In all seriousness it'd be a nice addition to be able to use Illusion magic to extract information from NPCs.

dim reef
#

Feels like something that should've always been there

#

Like using force persuasion in Kotor or axii persuasion in Witcher

tardy tiger
#

TES is odd with skill checks. TES5s only one never even tells you that it's a skill check

trail dust
solar gust
#

I wish Bethesda contracted Hans Zimmer to do the music score for ES6. Ugh it’d be so good.

noble verge
#

Not really that common but was nonetheless cool to see it come up in dialogue at all.

next void
harsh crown
wary bane
#

I have noticed in several interviews it has been mentioned that a design goal for TES 6 and FO5 is to extend the number of hours the games can be experienced.

Is the focus is on extending play time regarding a single or multiple playthroughs?

next void
harsh crown
wanton niche
dim reef
#

And seeing as TES already has an iconic theme i don't think Hans can add much there

solar gust
dim reef
#

Nope. Just the themes. Lorne Balfe did the rest

#

Streaming services have accidentally listed the entire ost as being made by him but it's not

#

You can read it on the box itself "Original themes by Hans Zimmer, Score by Lorne Balfe"

#

Same thing for Crysis 2. He did the main themes while two others composed the rest

#

DATV is a little grey. They haven't released much details on who did what. The entire score is said to be composed by both Zimmer and Balfe but the way he's worked on games before i doubt it's any different

#

I.e main themes Zimmer, rest Balfe

hollow lodge
#

Hear me now great almighty Todd Howard a live action high budget tv show of the book 2920 the last year of the first era would be a badass elder scrolls show you wouldn’t even have to worry about upsetting fans with contradicting our choices in the games because it predates them give it a thought

feral viper
#

Nah. Just make TES Adventures: Eye of Argonia.

#

Give us a live action Cyrus

feral viper
#

It'll be 'We have Hanz Zimmer at home'.

dim reef
#

We don't need really need Zimmer for it. Bethesda's composers are more than enough capable imitating that style of music

#

Not to mention Zimmer is costly as hell. They can hire him but when there's other options it'll be a waste of resources

#

All that for him to only do maybe a couple themes at best

wanton niche
# wanton niche Radient quests TWO

okay but in all seriousness, I do NOT want another game to force me to extend hours artificially. If I'm going to play a game and fully explore it, I'd much rather it be well crafted than randomly generated. Then, if they really want to keep people playing, they can add in a side mode or mechanic that's customizable or something

feral viper
#

Agreed. We don't need Ubisoft design

dim reef
#

Skyrim used it's radiants pretty well tbf. They're not meant to be the main attractions themselves but instead lead you to the handcrafted dungeons

#

Ofcourse some questlines overuse them too much.
cough Thieves Guild cough

#

But otherwise the general idea behind them works well when they're used to direct you to the actual handcrafted areas than being the main focus themselves

pulsar root
#

The radiant quest system in Skyrim can always be improved even if I thought it was ok. That said I think having some bounties in each town is a better use(Local threats for certain areas so its slightly different depending on the town)

feral viper
#

I wouldn't say it was GOOD, but it certainly wasn't as bad as, say, Fallout 4s use of it.

wanton niche
#

oooh, bounties I think would make more sense. We've always had a bounty system for ourselves, why not others?

tardy tiger
#

The radiant quest system I feel is fine. It's more the use that could be improved. Job stuff is fine but story missions shouldn't be radiant.

wary bane
dim reef
#

Especially in case of the MM questline because everything you need for the questline is handcrafted while the rest is radiant.
In comparison, the civil war questline in Skrim is like 90% copy pasted fort takeovers

pulsar root
#

Minus the "a Settlement needs help, let me mark it on your map" times infinity

dim reef
#

That's the optional bit ye

#

Cos' you need 8 settlements for the questline and you can simply do the handcrafted settlement quests

#

Tho making Preston, a companion the radiant quest giver was certainly... odd

#

It's like if Danse or Deacon gave out radiant quests

wanton niche
#

"My Thane, A settlement needs our help."

livid ingot
dim reef
livid ingot
#

The idea that Todd proposed, that radiant quests would send you to places you hadn't been, to facilitate exploration, was pretty cool

#

But the implementation fell far short of that, imo

dim reef
#

It worked well on my end. I found most of my dungeons through radiants

#

I think you were either unlucky or you already explored most of the handcrafted areas before the radiants could send you there

#

I think on that note they should make a system that once you've already cleared a dungeon, that should not become a radiant target

#

Make it so only those you haven't yet cleared or discovered get marked by radiants

livid ingot
#

Maybe they just eventually fixed it. 🤔

tardy tiger
#

Radiants were planned back in TES4 but never made it to release if I recall.

livid ingot
#

Radiant A.I. was trimmed down too before the final release of IV. Then later considerably neutered for V.

#

I'm hoping they re-tackle it for TES VI

#

As gimped and buggy as that system was, I love the idea of it

#

And the tech has come a long way since then. Heck it's been 20 years

#

I want npcs that eat and buy stuff and are governed more by behavior in general.

feral viper
#

Radiant AI, or at least the goals of it, isn't really hard to achieve these days.

#

The hard part is all the animations you need for associated activities..

dim reef
feral viper
#

That's not fair to Radiant Quests.

last dew
#

AI is useful to people when people don't have a creative mind.

livid ingot
#

Trying to make sure it didn't ruin people's save files

feral viper
#

Nah, Management and Base Builder games have done far, far more complex than anything Bethesda attempted.

In that genre, it's the standard, not an anomaly.

#

So the issue can't be the AI. But those management games don't have the same sort of interaction animations. Typically a character simply moves to the location, and stands there or does a generic 'activity' animation, and preforms whatever function they want.

dim reef
#

Yeah. I love the base building but if you build anything remotely complex the settler ai completely fizzles out

#

Hell. Even without building you have stuff like Brahmins spawning on top of Sanctuary hill rooftops

last dew
#

The use of AI for concept art and for writing concept is a sign of someone using it have no creativity in their mind.

dim reef
#

They even cut Mama Murphy's unique chair because they couldn't figure how she'd get through doors or stairs

#

Actual Madness

feral viper
#

We put human agency in a pedestal. And in reality, most of its slop

last dew
feral viper
#

And yet, the entire industry is built on a lack of creativity.

TES, for instance.

last dew
#

No. People got lazier with the use of AI for use of writing and art concept. What I mean by creativity is by making stories that are compelling and all that with much heart, soul and passion for it through hard work. The use of AI to do all that is just soulless and lazy.

feral viper
#

Very much yes. TES hasn't been creative since 2002. It's been chasing common fantasy trends and the social zeitgeist.

People haven't gotten lazier. They have just been given a tool that allows them to do less work.

They always WERE lazy.

last dew
#

Doing less work is still lazy. Please stop contradicting me. It shouldn't be normalized in the first place. All I hear from people defending the use of AI for writing and art concept are just excuses.

feral viper
#

Lots of things shouldn't be.

And yet they are.

#

AI is a tool. It's a tool regularly being abused, sure, but it's still just a tool.

last dew
#

"AI is only a tool". Another one of those excuses.

feral viper
#

And I bet you think that human creators don't regularly steal from other people's work either.

#

Fun fact, NO artist creates in isolation.

last dew
#

It's not about stealing other people's work, it's about allowing an AI machine to do the work for you, potentially replacing people's jobs and even have AI to develop the games themselves without any human employee in the studio. It's common sense.

#

Please quit trying to find a way to make my concerns invalid.

feral viper
#

Every one of us mimics other artists. We take things we like and try to make it our own. Every last one of us automatically does what AI does, subconsciously.

#

Humans aren't special. We are nothing but meat machines.

last dew
#

You're just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. I'm just gonna end this conversation.

feral viper
#

Nope, I am not.

#

I just don't give human creativity undeserved reference.

#

The whole point of technology is to make it easier to do the same things we've been doing before.

People just get touchy when the tech does that to something they apply special significance to.

#

There is no soul, no intangible spirit to what makes us humans special. It's meat and chemicals, and machines replicate that with circuits and algorithms.

feral viper
dim reef
feral viper
#

Fair enough.

The reality remains, everything Bethesda tried to do with Radiant AI already exists elsewhere. There's an entire genre of games built on it.

dim reef
#

I'd say what makes it unique is they're the only big rpg studio that even attempted putting radiant ai in their games

#

CDPR, Bioware, not even Larian do it

#

But they gotta get better at it if they want to keep it as a major selling point

feral viper
#

They have to look at games like Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, Going Medieval etc.

#

Look at the games that DO that, then figure out what activities you want to include and work on the animations for them.

#

Don't start from scratch.

There's no point trying to invent the steam engine, when there's already a dozen manufacturers of them.

#

Rimworld actually has a FreeWill mod that is, honestly, amazing. You lose most of your control over your pawns and they just do their own thing based on their traits and skills.

It's amazingly robust for just a mod.

#

Though I think Dwarf Fortress is still the gold standard for that sort of thing...

eager remnant
# feral viper Rimworld actually has a FreeWill mod that is, honestly, amazing. You lose most o...

We've had somewhat similar mods for Elder Scrolls, such as Emma's 2006 Vilja companion mod for Oblivion. If she gets bored with what you're doing as you are out adventuring, she'll leave and pick alchemy ingredients on her own. I'll never forget the time we were in the Imperial City. She got bored with what I was doing and went shopping at Red Diamond Jewelry on her own. She came back with a ring purchased with her own moeny. I was gobsmacked. I've heard there are companion mods for Skyrim that are even more sophisticated than Vilja.

feral viper
#

Absolutely.

SimSettlements is another fantastic example of modders taking what the barebones systems Bethesda can do, and pushing them over the edge into something great.

#

So the problem definitely isn't a technical limitation.

dim reef
#

But that's more a me problem i suppose

pulsar root
#

Its a fair criticism but I think thats jsut the limitation of the mod.

feral viper
#

Yeah, I totally get that too. I like building my own things as well.

noble verge
wanton niche
#

at that point you might as well just outsource it to another studio or something.

shell swan
pulsar root
#

reminder Gen AI=/ other forms of AI. pls and ty

dim reef
#

That's Todd's stance too. They won't use genAI but other ai tools they might check out

last dew
livid ingot
#

How did you get on the topic of LLMs? We were talking about NPC AI.

feral viper
#

Faith is a worthless thing that one clings to when too cowardly to embrace reason.

feral viper
#

Radiant AI was nothing but an early LLM.

#

More of a TLM: Tiny Language Model.

feral viper
#

At the end of the day, if Bethesda wants larger living worlds with NPCs that are more than lifeless drones, there are only two options.

LLMs, or hundreds of thousands of man hours.

And the latter isn't even a real option, because of the same cause that people are ACTUALLY mad about AI for: Money.

feral viper
#

Given Bethesda's trend, however, I don't expect them to bother.

Fallout 4, 76 and Starfield all went for the Crowded but Dead world design, filling population centres with lifeless drones that exist to take up space, but have no actual function, purpose or identity in the world.

And this sort of design has become the norm in the industry. Rockstar, Ubisoft, CDPR, they all use it.

Because Big worlds have replaced Meaningful worlds, while players are distracted with hot button topics and tribalism, to dictate a games success or faulure before it even launches.

last dew
#

I will never understand how some people can be so condescending and allowed horrible things to be normalized unethically. I really do not understand this mindset. People like that are part of the problem of allowing unethical things being normalized. So pessimistic, condescending, and just defeatist. A bunch of AI apologists. Do they even remember common sense anymore?

feral viper
#

Common sense is also worthless. It is a trained reaction that, for most people, is wrong more than it is right.

I'll never understand why people keep using it to justify positions.

#

The only unethical thing, is Capitalism.

You want to argue against that? By all means, so do.

But it's worthless to blame things that are only symptomatic of the real issue.

last dew
#

It's cowardly to do nothing about it.

feral viper
#

Bud, I am a hard socialist. You're barking up the wrong tree there.

But I believe in blaming the REAL causes, not tertiary symptoms.

#

The only problem with AI that wouldn't instantly disappear with Capitalism, is the environmental impact that AI data centres cause.

last dew
#

I'm not interested in talking about politics. Let's NOT discuss politics. I'm only wanting to discuss how AI use could affect video games in the most negative way and how it shouldn't be normalized at all in general such as the lazy use of AI for concept writing and art that could get talented people out of their jobs.

feral viper
#

Every other concern is rooted in the impact on earning potential for creatives.

Which is a problem with CAPITALISM, not with AI.

last dew
#

I'm just gonna stop talking about this because you'll just try to find a way to make my concerns and criticisms invalid with the whataboutism and excuses and changing topics that literally have nothing to do with what I'm trying to point out.

feral viper
#

So, technology should never progress?

Internal combustion engines put horse breeders and handlers out of jobs.

Machining put blacksmiths out of jobs.

Concrete put masons out of jobs.

The march of technology puts people out of jobs. That is the reality of technology.

last dew
#

Dude, just stop.

gloomy anchor
#

Ok it is time to move on please

last dew
#

Thank you.

feral viper
#

Fair enough. My general opinion of Bethesda's worlds is low anyway, so why bother improving.

#

Focus on the things that still have value. Like Skyrim's perk system.

eager remnant
feral viper
#

It's possible.

And I know I'm very much an outlier in this regard. Lots of people think GTA, and Cyberpunk are alive.

#

For me, if I see an NPC that exists for no reason other than to fill out a crowd? Someone I can't talk to or engage with other than to just shoot them and add to the pile?

That's not a living world.

nimble pond
#

Well, 2027 is looking more likely, currently, imo. There's been more good news then expected I believe. And it looks like 2027 is in the crosshair for the next xbox console release. I could totally see TESVI being paired as a launch title with it.

feral viper
#

That can be a blessing and a curse.

Release titles often strive to show off what a new console can do.

At the same time, with rising prises we are more and more likely to see release titles also release on previous consoles, so they're going to be hamstrung by older hardware while trying to be next gen.

noble verge
# feral viper Given Bethesda's trend, however, I don't expect them to bother. Fallout 4, 76 a...

From what I've seen, the key limitation for creating a "living" world by your standards seems to be the challenge to constantly render all the goings-on in the world.

For something like a city-builder that's built from the ground up to do exactly that, that's one thing. But with a singleplayer RPG, the only part of the world that is typically simulated at any one time is the immediate area around the player. I'm not a game maker, but I'd think that to create a truly "living" world instead of just an immediate world around the player would require something akin to an MMORPG server that permits everything to constantly happen everywhere in the game world.

feral viper
#

If an NPC exists, they should have 3 things to me.

Permanence. They can't just despawn when the clock hits 8pm. The should have a place to go to.

Personality. It doesn't have to be much, even something as bare bones basic as Nazeem works.

Presence. They need to be doing something, going somewhere, having some sort of activity that makes them more than a standing kiosk to take up space, or a moving pylon that exists just to look like a street is crowded.

#

I would much rather cities at Skyrim scale that meet these thresholds than a thousand Night City's where you've got thousands of worthless cardboard cutouts sliding around just taking up space for the 30 seconds they're close enough to the player to matter.

slow loom
#

I wouldn't want a huge amount of the budget for a game wasted on something that has very little gameplay. But does have a huge impact on performance.

Would Night City be better if it was empty except for quest npcs? Of course not. Would you really want to have dialogue with 1000s of meaningless NPCs. I struggle to see what this really adds. Most people want a fun game not a dialogue simulator.

It depends on what you find believable. Your idea of believable is farcical at this point in time with technology limitations. It would end up relying on AI which is the opposite of making something feel real. Or an absolutely gigantic budget beyond anything made to date.

Some people focus on how do the people of the land make their food. Others might focus on how they built the cities with so few people living in them. Realism comes in many forms and games have to pick and choose which are cost effective and doable.

#

I'm pretty sure KCD2 already does most of what you state, where everyone has a routine and place to sleep.

feral viper
#

Haven't tried it yet, largely because the first game turned me off. But I really should..

#

But yes, realism comes in different forms.

And Skyrim is more realistic to me, than Cyberpunk is. For exactly these reasons.

#

Hell, Daggerfall is more realistic than most modern open works games. And that saying something.

Though even it doesn't tick all the boxes.

feral viper
#

But you hit on my whole point.

What Bethesda already does, is better than the competition.

And if they want to do more than that, then the only options are unreasonable costs, or embracing AI.

So better to stick with what they've done in the past. Because it's better than the cardboard cutouts of other games, and actually manageable.

slow loom
#

Well Bethesda started copying the competition come Starfield.

feral viper
#

No, they started in Fallout 4.

Starfield was an evolution of the trend, not the start of it.

slow loom
#

There wasn't that many generic npcs in F4 towns.

feral viper
#

Yes there was. There were Diamond City Citizens, Settlers, and I'm pretty sure they had another title for that ghoul town.

#

And 76, similarly, uses generic Settlers to fill out space in its hubs, following the Wastelanders update.

#

But it's all largely tangential, because the world's are basically irrelevant at this point. I don't think Bethesda has the chops, or the desire, to actually make worlds with life and depth.

They make amusement parks to run around in. Not living worlds.

#

Which is why focusing on mechanics is more important, because they've basically abandoned worldbuilding and storytelling.

slow loom
#

I get it. You wanted them to keep improving the Radiant AI system.

feral viper
#

I wanted them to do a lot of things. They've done basically none of them.

slow loom
#

Fallout 4 probably has like 25% no name npcs and Starfield is closer to 75%.

feral viper
#

Improve radiant AI. Worldbuilding deeper than a spilled drink on a kitchen floor. Make the Dark Brotherhood less tacky. Refine systems that work instead of just tossing them out the window because you screwed them up.

#

To their credit, Bethesda HAS improved their storytelling. Even if the stories themselves continue to get worse.

slow loom
feral viper
#

Just because a story is garbage, doesn't mean you can't tell it well.

There is a difference between the delivery, and the quality of what is being delivered.

#

Just like you can ruin a fantastic story with a bad telling. You can elevate a terrible story by telling it well.

slow loom
#

So the writing has gotten worse but the people making the quests have gotten better.

#

I honestly think you might need to take a break from thinking about Bethesda games for a bit lol.

feral viper
#

Nope, didn't understand the point at all.

#

It's got nothing to do with quests. It has to do with storytelling. That can be done THROUGH quests, but it's a lot more complicated than just that.

feral viper
#

There hasn't been anything to really evaluate for over a year now, so no new information to think about.

#

And since no one has any new arguments, I haven't even had to reevaluate my positions on things.

slow loom
#

Todd did say recently that TES6 was going to be closer to how they normally make games.

feral viper
#

And history has demonstrated that trusting what he says in PR releases is a fools errand.

#

Until DEMONSTRATED, I have no reason to believe a word he says.

slow loom
#

Lol you are very disillusioned.

feral viper
#

Reality has a tendency to do that.

pulsar root
#

Sithis pilled.

slow loom
#

I also believe what i can see and experience. But i was sharing some recent words said by Todd.

feral viper
#

And experience has shown that what Todd says is largely irrelevant. He either engaged in PR spin, or is so far removed from community feedback that he's designing for a whole other group of people.

#

I mean, he said 76s PvP was fun. FUN!

#

My total lack of confidence in his or Bethesda's ability at this point won't stop me from trying to help, and offer insight and ideas on how to improve however.

nimble pond
#

Can we just have a day this week of not making sneering comments at each other.

feral viper
dim reef
#

Nuclear Winter was ungodly amounts of fun. Never understood why they canned it

wanton niche
#

damn, to think I joined because I mostly just wanted input on the idea for a "Reputation Procedural System."

feral viper
# dim reef It *was* fun

Not Unclear Winter. The general PvP of the game, and the will they won't they of whether or not other players would betray you and shoot you in the back.

Early PvP was a dumpster fire in 76. The penalties to killing unflagged players were so pathetic the servers were just full of griefers.

It was like Diablo IIs nonsense all over again.

feral viper
dim reef
#

Leaving behind people who mostly just want to cooperate and have fun and encourage the same in new players

#

So atleast something good came out of it

feral viper
#

Absolutely, it's a good game now.

wanton niche
#

oh! You don't have to do that, I was just- thank you though

feral viper
#

But it highlighted major playtesting problems and a detachment from the wider gaming community.

The system was tested by Bethesda, amongst its employees, with it's internal culture.

If Todd Howard had any sense for the real world gaming community outside of Bethesda's insular group, he would have known it was a terrible idea.

#

Open PvP has ALWAYS led to griefing.

feral viper
astral hollow
#

What is a Curmudgeon?

pulsar root
#

Bad tempered

acoustic stratus
#

Can someone make a doom mod where we play as my GOAT Pelinal during the Alessian Rebellion

spare plaza
flint glen
#

I am suffering mentally

#

Skyrim creation club items are loading for 1 day

flint glen
#

I am a god among mortals in skyrim

glad shadow
flint glen
#

Its overwhelmingly awful to grind in skyrim

#

It took me like 3 days to level up to 30

pulsar root
#

What...were you doing to grind?

vale gull
#

This is a small thing but I just found out I had made this character named Cassius for my Skyrim character in 2020. Then I got Elder Scrolls Castles not too long ago and I saw Cassius The Elder and was wondering who else named their character this.

nimble pond
#

Behold, TESVI teaser if it were in real life (and in Italy no less):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HUlOppbd7uI&pp=ygUWQ2FzdGxlIGRlbCB2b2x0ZXJyYWlvIA%3D%3D

Don't ask me how I discovered this, it's too impossible 😂

YouTube
Davide Galloni
Castello del Volterraio ripreso dal Drone

La fortezza del Volterraio, Portoferraio, isola d'Elba ripresa dal cielo, dall'occhio del Drone.
Il complesso fortificato, che nei documenti duecenteschi è chiamato Monte Veltraio, fu costruito attorno all'anno Mille, nel punto in cui probabilmente sorgeva una preesistente struttura di epoca etrusca; nei pressi del sito è stata rinvenuta una m...

▶ Play video
feral viper
#

I mean... If you're grinding in a TES game, I feel like you're already doing something wrong.

#

But people also paint their Space Marines as Iron Hands, so who am I to judge wrong things.

noble verge
#

The only right way to level up in TES is to buy your levels with the money gained selling filled soul gems and high end Dremora gear to a Scamp and Mudcrab.

dim reef
#

I wonder what the Creation engine 3 will bring, so glad to has explained why it’s taking long, still disappointed it’s a few years away but hearing the progress is good. One issue is why make creation engine 2 and only use one game on it???

#

Why did they not use creation 2 for TES6? Im not complaining im just baffled why one game was only made on it? I wonder if Fallout 5 will use Creation engine 3

#

Also if anyone of higher ups see this Ive got an idea for TES6 have an akavirrian army come in and fight the Thalmor with the other armies of Tamriel I think more akavirrian stuff would be cool

radiant moss
pulsar root
#

I couldn't say. The fact they said "Creation 3" caught me surprised.

dim reef
radiant moss
#

I hope CE3 runs better than 2 though. I get CE/CE2's target FPS were/are 60 FPS, but even on very low and an RX 6700 XT Starfield CHUGS.

dim reef
#

Like im not complaining i just cannot find a reason why this happened, im so glad this explains the delay and that they have made a massive milestone

radiant moss
# dim reef Probably I dislike starfield but it looks beautiful

Yeah I agree. I think it could've ditched the garbage LUT/crappy lighting haze on screen, and NPCs need the eye size/reflection intensity reduced but it was pretty nice. I hope TES6 comes stylized, photogammetry has its merits but I'm tired of photorealistic artstyles.

dim reef
#

They spent all those years making Creation 2 just to make one game on it

pulsar root
#

I don't know. I guess they wanted to update the engine again /shrug

dim reef
#

I love the border between realism and cartoon that Fallout 4 had imo it was “Real enough”

dim reef
#

I guess BGS saw how starfield sucked and went maybe it’s the engine lol

#

I ALSO LOVE how they acknowledge 76 and Starfield were creative detours and they say they are going back to Skyrim style, it makes me released

radiant moss
dim reef
#

It shows they know those games sucked

dim reef
#

Im hyped again I WISH THO they were more transparent earlier on

#

We legit thought the game was never coming out

#

Like why the hell would a game with a god engine take almost a decade to make lol

#

But now we know why

radiant moss
dim reef
#

But im glad we now know what the state of TES6 is

#

To atleast some degree, they can say the game is 5 years away i just wanna know if it’s alright lol

pulsar root
#

I don't think its 5 years away. That might make fans nuts

Well....more nutty then they are right now >.>

dim reef
#

I personally think it’s 2-3 years away. I say that cuz the delays line up

#

The shenanigans that have been going on are done and I think they are mid way to end of the completion

#

If they are telling us this info now it’s 100% left early stages

feral viper
#

I'm guessing 2. Largely because Howard already said they have a playable build a few months back.

While I doubt his claims that it was fun, I don't think he'd out and out lie about something that specific.

Which means the writing and gameplay design phase is probably either done, or close to done. And it's largely focusing on filling the world, content, and balance.

dim reef
#

There’s no logical reason they’d be saying all this is the weren’t close and close I mean 2 years

#

And if they said a playable build was a few months ago imagine the strides they have done now

#

Im not hopeful this is Bethesda game studios we are talking about however, this is the fist solid info other than more trees we have gotten since 2018

feral viper
#

Well... It's worth noting that 'Playable' doesn't actually mean it's anything we'll ever see.

Entire games have gone back to the drawing board because Playable just didn't mesh with partners when it came to testing.

#

We're unlikely to see anything on the scale of Thief in that regard, of course.

But it partner testing goes poorly, that playable build may get tossed for something else.

dim reef
dim reef
feral viper
#

It's Bethesda. I don't think we will hear anything until they are ready to show the game.

dim reef
feral viper
#

And it'll be almost done by that point.

I'd say 12-16 months. With a 4-6 month window from showcase to release.

#

Aiming for the 2027 holiday season.

dim reef
feral viper
#

Sorry, typo there

dim reef
#

2027 Christmas time would be ideal

feral viper
#

Fat fingers.

dim reef
#

It’s either 2027 or 2028. Cuz by that time they gotta be done with the info we just received.

feral viper
#

My estimate is very tentative, based on what I know about game development generally. Whether Bethesda follows that pattern or not, I can't directly say.

dim reef
feral viper
#

But the amount of things that rely on the games story and writing mean that, if you're fleshing out gameplay mechanics, most of the core writing is going to need to already be done.

Unless you're just throwing stuff at a wall and trying to figure it out as you go.

And I certainly hope Bethesda is better managed than Star Citizen.

dim reef
feral viper
#

So, if writing is mostly done, and gameplay is at least functionally designed and implemented, you're left with the visual and world building work. Mapping out levels and environments, populating asset lists, and all the mountains of art design and modeling.

dim reef
feral viper
#

Vehks brazen balls I hope so.

dim reef
#

Cuz that game is the best looking BGS game out rn

#

I wanna get it but my wallets kinda homeless

#

It’s very expensive in AUD. About 89 dollars.

feral viper
#

Oh man, very different tastes there.

dim reef
#

Every American exported game gets hit with the bogus tax that makes it 20 dollars extra

feral viper
#

I think it's ugly as sin. Somehow it's got LESS character than the original, and I thought my opinion of Oblivion's art direction was rock bottom

#

Turns out, that pit goes deeper.

dim reef
#

It had a European fairy tale look to it.

feral viper
#

I tend to describe it as Disney.

dim reef
astral hollow
#

Except zero princesses in it, and definitely no sugar coatedness. It's like gothic horror fantasy and some Disney/and Fairytale theater elements.

feral viper
#

Eeh... It TRIES to be Gothic horror, but IMO utterly fails.

molten lodge
#

God I love that Todd gave the vaguest answer possible about how TES VI is going, and so many outlets are going about it like he basically said everything short of the game is releasing tomorrow (Though i will commend him for the restraint because he looked like he wanted to tell us everything about how far development is going and what features are going to be in TES VI, and it pained him not to share)

molten lodge
pulsar root
# molten lodge I hope that's only in how they lay out the map, because the design philosophy of...

Starfield's problems was more about a world design problem(Like the hundreds of planets). The more Oblivion/Skyrim design worked and wouldn't necessarily work with Starfield(Unless they tried to do one planet in the game).

But thats off topic. Honestly glad Todd mentioned the previous way their games are made(Like Skyrim and Oblivion). That should calm the internet down. But..... I won't hold my breathe for them(The internet)

molten lodge
#

Yeaaaahhhh, as I pointed out before, the media cycle from this interview alone was weird (Heck I think the biggest news wasn't even CE3 or the Starfield update, but that Todd is somehow cracked at College Football)

glad shadow
feral viper
#

Gaming journalism will take a fart and run with it these days.

They're basically to the level of tabloid at this point.

glad shadow
#

True

tropic skiff
#

Is it best to follow a main quest guide for Arena and Daggerfall for your first playthrough?

radiant moss
# tropic skiff Is it best to follow a main quest guide for Arena and Daggerfall for your first ...

Daggerfall, maybe? You'll tend to get letters to push you in the right direction anyway. There's only, like, 1 time-restricted quest in the game, and if it takes you that long to ||decide who gets Tiber Septim's Totem, you don't deserve to choose anyway|| AdoringFan

Arena is super simple. There's 2 dungeons to complete for each piece of the Staff of Chaos. To find it, wherever you are, talk to a civilian and ask "Where is..." the Fang Lair, the Labyrinthian, etc. They'll point you to the province and city they've heard rumors about regarding that location and you'll get 2 quests from the ruler/guildmember: one to complete a "pre-dungeon" that deciphers part of the Elder Scrolls, and another to actually get the Staff piece.

astral hollow
#

I find it both really fascinating and somewhat funny in a balanced dark humor way that there is a mad man with a puzzle box in Skyrim.

feral viper
#

Follow the main quest, basically every first time. It's the best way to get to grips with the game, world and basic systems.

junior kettle
#

Bethesda where are the elder scrolls roles

#

Bethesda where's the Sixth House role

feral viper
#

There is no Sixth House.

#

If you continue to believe there is a Sixth House, please report to the Ministry of Truth.

wide garnet
#

I’ve got a follow-up to something I’ve posted before from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Inquisitor Trevelyan (my Inquisitor): Well, my latest report has to be one of the most head-shaking, and it also explains (from my studies in the Fade) why Tamamo-no-Mae was cast out of heaven/Aetherius and imprisoned in that boulder: because she summoned that Love spirit, not to explore the possibilities of Onikaan do Dovahkiin but to, quite literally, breed a new race of Dovah using Matthias (my Dragonborn) and said Love spirit.

She’s already been reshaped by Onikaan do Dovahkiin into a 7-foot tall dragon woman (both far too muscular and curvy to be a dragon girl) with the personality of both a loving wife and lustful mistress. When I confronted Tama-Chan about it, she just started giggling dementedly, the kind that makes you want to get away as fast as possible to avoid getting caught as collateral damage.

At least we still got that Akaviri lightning demon to keep his combat skills up.

wanton niche
#

I do think that properly balancing the level curve would be a step up at least...

dim reef
nimble pond
feral viper
noble verge
#

Icarian Landing

feral viper
#

He hadn't figured out that spell yet.

astral hollow
junior ruin
#

Cliff racer… fly so high

junior ruin
junior kettle
#

No

feral viper
#

You can't remaster perfection

#

Peak photorealism

nimble pond
#

On the contrary of sarcasm, he actually bears a 1:1 resemblance of someone I worked with in the armed forces. Minus the beard, pointed ears, and amuliculi legs ofc.

astral hollow
nimble pond
#

More explosions thru alchemy please, so we can do pocket bombs and sticky bombs.

#

And color-coded flag marking on our maps. I forget where stuff is all the time. As well as pencil-drawing for making trails and keeping track of what parts of large areas we've already explored. Being able to hand-hold a visible magic map on parchment that fills up as you explore dungeons would be helpful too. It always goes blank once you leave a dungeon so you can use it for other dungeons, but will retain the map layout should you return to a previously explored one once you enter it.

astral hollow
#

Happy Oblivion Anniversary Month

feral viper
#

Alchemy on the whole needs to be overhauled.

There's so much you can do with the idea, but at present it's just... Mixing 'potions' in the bathtub as a child.

#

The bones are there though. It's just a matter of fleshing them out.

dim reef
#

Fallout has it. You can make molotovs, grenades, hell even fusion cores from chemical items.
TES definitely needs some advancement in that regard

#

Why does Fallout have so much basic stuff that TES doesn't

tardy tiger
#

Grenades should be do able if they remember just how old grenades actually are. Like the Medieval Romans having greek fire grenades and I think Song China had early frag grenades?

nimble pond
feral viper
#

There's a lot of cool ways you could go about it, including bringing back the old alchemical apparati to 'upgrade' your crafting station.

nimble pond
#

If they go more in-depth with war, I hope for a variety of war machine toys to play with on battlefields.

clever falcon
#

Ill be real I'd like to go back to the third era

nimble pond
#

Access to multiple eras via time wounds/portals would be rad, even an apocalyptic one where you can see all of Tamriel destroyed and burning.

feral viper
#

Having recently started replaying Soul Reaver 2 again...

I am on board with this.

nimble pond
#

Ooh Soul Reaver. Since souls and their extraction are already a well-established thing in TES. I think a "possession" spell somewhere in necromancy/conjuration/soul magic would be fun. You take control of their body and whatever weapons they possess, seeing what they see. Can work on humans, creatures, I think things like automatons or undead would be immune, at least early on until you acquire a much higher-ranking of the spell that allows you to possess those without soul. Also, unique dialogue options could be added with this. Like a bandit speaking to his comrades or even from one animal to another, could add a good bit of humor to that. Horses insulting their riders probably.
On the opposing side, an exorcist guild or company (like the vigilants) would be fun to mess with.

keen stone
#

With oblivion getting a remaster do you think it’s in the cards for the other games to be remade to modern standards

hushed coyote
keen stone
hushed coyote
nimble pond
#

Wonder if they'll ever pit a two-sided daedra war (I mean between the princes, sort of a good vs. evil since some of them are alot worse than their other siblings). They already have free-for-alls often enough amongst themselves.

dim reef
nimble pond
#

No, no more cheese, please.

hushed coyote
nimble pond
dim reef
nimble pond
#

Ah, Meh.

dim reef
#

He planned on planemelding the entirety of Nirn with cold harbor

nimble pond
#

See, I'm thinking more full-on civil war between the princes themselves with two sides. And not something again to do with invading Tamriel/Nirn again. Let it be between them for a completely new reason.

dim reef
#

Shivering Isles is the only thing i can think of with something like that

#

Oh and ig Ithelia but uh...

#

Her story is so bizarrely written idk what to even say about that

nimble pond
#

Ikik, I was just spouting random ideas/concepts to think about as I usually do.

feral viper
#

And I say kinda, because I ultimately think it's a really crappy City Works attempt at filling the hole.

junior kettle
#

ESO basically destroyed any want of a daedric centered plot, they way overused that

gloomy kraken
#

I can legit think of only 4 major story lines that are daedric focused

jade plover
gloomy kraken
#

Yea so 4 storylines

feral viper
gloomy kraken
#

Base game, daedric wars, gates of oblivion and shadow of morrowind

jade plover
feral viper
#

And I'll be the one to say it...

They don't even do the Daedra WELL.

gloomy kraken
feral viper
#

Though Bethesda isn't any better at it.

They're stuck in this superficial loop of Daedra=Demon

jade plover
#

And after a new wave of oblivion popularity i wont be surprised if next dlc will be shivering isles

feral viper
gloomy kraken
#

That's just personal opinion

feral viper
#

Yup

#

The Breton one was especially bad, and that's coming from me. The guy who thinks the Dark Brotherhood is so disastrously written it's unsalvagable

#

But Bretons on the whole are the 'we're out of ideas, just crack open the Players Handbook' culture.

gloomy kraken
#

Idk I didn't hate it as much as I hated vvardenfell or necrom but that might be bc I just dislike thd whole morrowind region

feral viper
#

I was curious to see what they'd do with it when we learned about Druids. I was hoping they'd go back to Celtic roots and do something different.

Instead we just got more new age Gygax Druids.

#

Still, I DO think ESO has generally done better with the setting than Bethesda has.

#

Even if I don't think it's enough to save it for me.

gloomy kraken
#

I love ESO bc I can worship the hottest version of Molag Bal, I'm simple like that

hushed coyote
feral viper
#

What's Bethesda's excuse then?

hushed coyote
#

selfish lovers

feral viper
#

More and more, TES does feel like the unloved child

#

It's the kid you had just after graduation that you didn't plan for, and derailed everything. And now that your life's on track you kind of resent them

hushed coyote
#

TES is a weird one in the grand scheme of things. Unlike fallout there isnt much marketability of it. The pipboy and the bobble heads are iconic. Nothing from TES has hit that level of iconicness

pulsar root
#

🤨

hushed coyote
#

That is why TES merch is kinda lacking

feral viper
#

TES lacks a clear style or identity. Every new game is radically different artistically, thematically and lacks a cohesive marketable vibe.

#

The only cohesion for the last 25 years has been the very, very loose mechanical foundation of 'Learn by Doing'

hushed coyote
#

Maybe you could make a Merdia's Beacon torch or something

feral viper
#

It's a deeper problem than just an icon

#

Like, you look at Warcraft, or Warhammer, or even any of the Final Fantasy games (despite being disconnected worlds) and regardless of their mechanics of platform, you can usually tell what they are

#

You put Might and Magic, Avowed, and Oblivion side by side, and without knowing ahead of time which game is which, try to pick out the TES.

hushed coyote
#

TES has such good lore and world building but that is nothing compared to Space Marines

feral viper
#

I don't even think it has that, anymore.

But that's tangential.

#

The only cohesive identity TES has, is mechanical. And it's hard to market mechanics. That's something that needs to be experienced, not shown.

hushed coyote
#

I am sure ESO has it's great moment too but I can't say much either way as I have not played it.

feral viper
#

I've become more and more jaded about the lore and worldbuilding.

I don't think it's been GOOD since Morrowind. And everything since has not just squandered the potential the Battlespire-Morrowind era had, it's actively thrown it in a trash compactor.

#

Ithelia was the straw that broke the camel's back, but she was just a final, terminal symptom. There had been other symptoms long before her.

hushed coyote
#

Narratively, Ithelia is just Jyggalag just like that the planemeld plot is just Oblivion and Mannimarco plot is just Daggerfall.

feral viper
#

Oh, she's waaay worse than that. But that's a whole philosophy and logic rant I don't want to get into.

Because ultimately, the lore isn't even really that important to the problem.

hushed coyote
#

I meant that she is just a rehash of the "hidden prince" plot of Jyggalag which it's own coat of paint

feral viper
#

Look at Mario. It's lore is basically non-existent, but it's the core, consistent identity over basically 40 years that keeps it iconic. Even though it changes radically from generation to generation.

hushed coyote
#

Japan is great at making icons

feral viper
#

About the only stylistic consistency TES has is remixing the same musical track game after game.

#

Fallout does that, but it ALSO has the whole 50s Steampunk aesthetic going on

hushed coyote
feral viper
#

Meanwhile, TES flipflops between 'Our elves are different' and 'Look, it's Tolkien!'

hushed coyote
#

Show someone a Drow and a Dunmer

feral viper
#

Artistically, TES has for 20 years been a fad chaser.

Lord of the rings becomes popular? Boom, Oblivion mimics the style.

Vikings become popular? Boom, Skyrim drops all Celtic influences and becomes Viking Tamriel.

Cutesy mobile art styles become popular? Bam, Castles.

dim reef
feral viper
#

Skyrim was a slight course correction. Though not nearly a hard enough one.

Though I've got a whole bunch of other problems with Skyrim's art style.

dim reef
#

The basics are atleast back to MW style. Races for example. MW and Skrim races look pretty close to each other

feral viper
#

Fair. But the rest of the world doesn't.

dim reef
#

A lot of it does imo. The Empire is back to being discount rome instead of whatever they were in Oblivion

feral viper
#

All the style and high-magic and weirdness of Morrowind is still thrown right into the garbage, in favour of generic fantasy landscapes, wood, and grey stone.

dim reef
#

Mh. Idk about that. Riften, Solitude and Windhelm have very distinct styles. I won't call them generic grey stones

feral viper
#

And this has contributed to the overall identity problem.

Without knowing the specific game ahead of time, you can't tell that these are all part of the same franchise.

Meanwhile, you can take Darktide, Dawn of War, and Battlefleet Gothic, all 3 RADICALLY different games, and reasonably guess they're Warhammer

dim reef
#

The only weak link i can think of is Morthal

#

And maybe Falkreath

feral viper
#

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the actual art assets are bad.

But the entire franchise as a whole lacks a cohesive artistic if stylistic identity.

#

Compare this to, say, Final Fantasy.

Practically every game is a different setting and world. But there's a clear artistic through line across most of the franchise. Due in large part to Amano's artwork through the franchise.

pulsar root
#

Skyrim's increased fidelity while better then oblivion, I can't say its too beautiful in some places. Dats just me though(I'm talking vanilla non modded). But its from 2011 so I'm not gonna harp on it too much.

Edit: I do think Imperials and the empire needs more then just "WE ROMANS BRO".

feral viper
#

It's not so much a matter of beauty or fidelity, but one of branding consistency.

#

As I said, the only consistent stylistic element in TES has been it's core gameplay philosophy of player freedom and character identity.

But like... You can't slap that on a poster, or a stuffed animal. It's not something that translates outside of the very specific type of game we're talking about.

jade plover
hushed coyote
pulsar root
#

🤨

feral viper
#

I'm with Alex Guinness on that front.

hushed coyote
livid ingot
dim reef
#

Fallout isn't entirely atompunk. It depends on the regions

#

Some are almost entirely art deco or gothic. Some are just normal country side

livid ingot
feral viper
jade plover
feral viper
#

I find that their differences are more of fidelity, rather than in style.

#

That could just be because of years of artistic practice though, so I'll grant that.

#

I may also admittedly be in hyper critical mode, because I've recently been reminded of just how much better WoWs High Elf styles and architecture is compared to TESs

#

Because let's be real. Blizzard has a lot of problems, but style is not one of them.

hushed coyote
feral viper
#

If you know, you know. And I'm sorry you know.

#

But more to the point...

I don't really think there is a way for Bethesda to address this issue. At least not without a huge mountain of work.

The franchise it's self simply lacks the building blocks to establish a clear, iconic visual of stylistic identity. It's a clumsy Hodge Podge of styles and influences, and trying to create something clear and cohesive from that is going to be a real challenge.

#

So it's largely stuck with the Mechanics, and the Name Recognition.

And you can't really cross-market mechanics. Those need to stand on their own in any individual instance.

#

So all that's there is the Name. Unless you slap The Elder Scrolls on something's there's really not a lot else you can do to create that sort of association.

dim reef
#

All the iconography is still more or less the same. Vault Boy, Vats, pip boys, radroaches etc. etc.

feral viper
#

I should also stipulate, this is not a criticism of the artists. Bethesda's artists do great work. This issue is something that can only stem from leadership, not the rank and file.

nimble pond
feral viper
#

If you know the song, you'll know the verse.

nimble pond
#

Some are just pigs in general

feral viper
#

War Pigs is a great song though.

nimble pond
#

I've always said they really should make Ozzy a Daedric Prince with his own realm.

feral viper
nimble pond
#

LOL I remember

#

Cheers to there being plenty of pig kings in TESVI we can catapult off the face of Tamriel and into Oblivion and beyond

nimble pond
noble verge
#

Been going downhill ever since the Alliance Footmen lost their helmet visors.

#

Knights had it even worse, they went from horned barbutes in 2 to no head protection at all in 3.

pulsar root
#

Yeah thats a no.

noble verge
#

On the topic of TES's art style, I've found it to be comparatively consistent ever since Skyrim and ESO. although that's probably because it's been so long since there has been a mainline game and the spinoffs tend to borrow from what already exists rather than reinvent the wheel again. This can be seen in how Legends reuses the armor designs of previous games- sometimes different games simultaneously- and how TES Blades' armor aesthetics are similar enough to that of TES V that they ended up getting imported to Skyrim via the CC.

#

I think ESO in particular finally struck gold with Imperial armor aesthetics after bouncing it around so much in the last few mainline titles. The art in Legends further helped solidify the aesthetic.

keen stone
#

Is Tes online not on here cus it’s not developed by Bethesda?

noble verge
#

ESO has their own forums, it's my understanding that this is for the singleplayer stuff.

keen stone
nimble pond
jade plover
#

Also dwemer ruins is a special thing that makes TES recognisable

#

ESO made this problem kind of bigger because it's design is even more generic in many areas

hushed coyote
jade plover
#

But they also created a lot of cool stuff in terms of art, like Clockwork city, Murkmire or Deadlands

jade plover
#

in my opinion main problem of valenwood design is animals. they are all the same as in other provinces despite unique nature

hushed coyote
jade plover
#

yes, but if you show someone screenshots of valenwood they can tell its from elder scrolls, i think

#

and if you show screenshots from summerset, it looks like default fantasy city that can be from any game

hushed coyote
#

Or dnd

jade plover
#

maybe

#

but it stills feels like they were thinking about architecture there much more than when they were making other provinces

#

because they made something special and not just copied already existing style

hushed coyote
#

As a side, a kids book I used to read when I was younger called Brambly Hedge, it was about mice living in tree stumps.

nimble pond
#

All I know is I love Black Marsh and the Hist. One night of reading The Lusty Argonian Maid and I was hooked. 😂

feral viper
noble verge
feral viper
#

They're more Assyrian Steampunk.

#

Which is, admittedly, one of the more unique styles in TES.

astral hollow
#

Definitely, The Elder Scrolls core is a major D&D Adventure Fantasy aura

livid ingot
pulsar root
#

fan-tas-y 🙌🏻

feral viper
#

You know you've gone too far when you're skinning prisoners of war to decorate the palace though...

livid ingot
#

I would want to add another influence too. Not sure what though

feral viper
#

Assyrian Steampunk Vedics.

#

Utilising a strong Caste System to designate social and economic roles across their society.

#

Also let's you lean into some of the depictions of ancient Vimana flying ships/palaces.

nimble pond
nimble pond
#

That and well, the Undead. I say that because they already got vampires you can play as. I'd like to see them branch off more in that area and introduce more forms of playable undead and their culture. Maybe give vampirism a break this time around (were"wolf" too)!

feral viper
keen stone
#

I haven’t played 1-3 or any of the spin offs but which of those should I start with

feral viper
#

ESO is the only spinoff I can genuinely recommend on this day and age.

Everything else is incredibly cumbersome and dated to play. Except for Castles, but it's a mobile game so your mileage will vary.

#

IF the gameplay being dated is not a concern, start with Morrowind. It's literally the game that earned Bethesda it's worldbuilding reputation.

After that, go for either ESO (again, a good MMO on its own) or Daggerfall.

Redguard, Battlespire and Arena should only really be reserved for franchise competitionists.

And the old, old mobile games are almost impossible to find, so don't worry about them.

keen stone
#

Didn’t eso get a massive update recently?

#

Also yeah morrowind I’ve heard is fantastic if a bit dated

#

Gameplay isn’t really a massive concern if the stories are good enough tho

feral viper
keen stone
feral viper
keen stone
#

I guess oblivion was when elder scrolls became the franchise we think of now

feral viper
#

Daggerfall is hands down the biggest, most free world. But it's also pretty superficial.

Arena is really only there for the main story, with the illusion of a big open world.

keen stone
#

Ah

feral viper
keen stone
#

I wish more of Bethesda’s games were available on Mac without fiddling

keen stone
feral viper
#

That long running problem has frequently led to gameplay feeling dated even when it comes out.

But dated doesn't mean BAD. It just means it's not envelope pushing.

keen stone
feral viper
#

I actually think it's their strongest suit, but that's a long conversation..

#

Or, at least, their willingness to change gameplay and explore new solutions to old problems.

Because you can't find better routes if you always follow the same road.

keen stone
feral viper
#

Sometimes you miss, like with Starfield's proc-gen.

Sometimes you hit, like with FO4s Power Armour.

And sometimes you miss, but get really close to hitting, like with Skyrim's Perk Trees and FO4s Dialogue System.

#

But if you just do the same thing every time cough Ubisoft cough you'll never actually improve.

junior kettle
#

Nah skyrim's perk tree was fine

feral viper
#

In concept, not so much in execution.

Many of the perks were about as useful as Daggerfall's Language skills, and it's balance was basically non-existent.

At the same time, the direct attachment to constellations limited how versatile they could be, and prevented pushing the system to its real potential.

#

It COULD have covered everything offered by Race, Class, Attributes and Birthsign, while doing a LOT more on top of that.

As it was, it half covered Attributes and Class.

junior kettle
#

Attributes did absolutely nothing besides a minor gameplay boost that is largely replaced by just investing in health, stamina and magicka

#

Class also relatively useless besides words on a menu

feral viper
#

I agree. At least in how they were handled.

And I think Skyrim's Perk Trees were a massive step in the right direction.

They just didn't live up to what they COULD be. Even though they were far better than what they replaced.

junior kettle
#

Starfield is really the only time a Bethesda game utilizes class via speech check. They did nothing in oblivion and in Morrowind most you got was NPCs calling you by your class. Even the whole major, minor and other limit was nothing but making leveling more atrocious

dim reef
#

Even Skrim itself made a lot of mistakes despite it's course corrections

#

One things for certain i doubt they'll have any further drastic artstyle changes. They've been trying to be more and more consistent so far

junior kettle
#

I don't agree with that because Skyrim, fallout 4 and starfield all look vastly different

#

76 is the exception and that's because 76 is built on 4's bones

dim reef
#

I'm talking about TES in particular. ESO has tried more and more blending Skrim/Morrowind's artstyles with maybe bits of Oblivion.
The mobile games also share Skrim's artstyle

feral viper
#

I think they SHOULD have a significant change in art style, but that's just me.

junior kettle
#

ESO does not look like Skyrim or Morrowind in anyway lol

dim reef
#

Oblivion remastered also blended a lot of Skrim's art direction into Oblivion

junior kettle
#

No it just made oblivion ugly

dim reef
#

The Daedric prince statues, the vampirism effects, the dragon model at the end, some of the elf models

feral viper
#

I wouldn't go so far as to say UGLY, but somehow they did make it look even more generic.

livid ingot
#

You guys know what to do:
https://www.museumofplay.org/players-choice-ballot/

The Strong National Museum of Play
Allison McGrath
Player's Choice Ballot - The Strong National Museum of Play

March 5–12, 2026 Which video games do you think are most worthy of joining icons such as Pong, Super Mario Bros., and Legend of Zelda in the World Video Game Hall of Fame? Vote below for the one you think best meets the criteria of icon-status, longevity, discovery, and innovation.  The three games that receive the most public votes will be s...

dim reef
#

They also took some stuff from ESO. Dagon's model is very reminiscent of ESO

livid ingot
#

I really disliked the redesign of some of the creatures

dim reef
#

So all in all. Whether you like it or not. They have picked a general direction in terms of artstyle

junior kettle
#

Nah

dim reef
#

And they seem to be sticking to it. So i don't expect any major changes

junior kettle
#

That's consistentcy which isn't the same as what you're saying

livid ingot
#

Somebody shared images of them all and stuff like the goblins were atrocious

#

Others were pretty good though

#

Kind of a mixed bag

dim reef
feral viper
#

It's like that absolutely idiotic New Wonders of the World thing from several (10?) years back.

junior kettle
#

Yea Daggerfall, Morrowind, oblivion, Skyrim and eso have consistent stuff while still looking different

dim reef
#

Nah. Daggerfall and MW are as far apart as they can be

junior kettle
#

As are oblivion, Skyrim and ESO

#

But several designs across all are consistent

dim reef
#

Oblivion is. Skrim is a lot more consistent with MW

junior kettle
#

They do not all look the same lol