elder-scrolls-general-chat

[feral viper]

Not only is it unnecessary, as the worldspace scaling in the games has no need to remain the same (and the Provinces are enormous, at least the size of European countries, of not the size of African ones) but the divided effort across such a diverse range of cultures, environments, and topography would inherently mean getting a half assed result.

The ONLY possible outcome of any attempt at doing all of Tamriel, would be a repeat of Starfield.

And this isn't an indictment on Bethesda. There is no studio in the world that could do that with any degree of successful execution.

[marble coyote]

i has problem, skyrim isn't reading my save files

[midnight stag]

Do you really think es6 actually really years away

[pulsar root]

Probably

[feral viper]

Depends on how fast you're going relative to Earth.

[jade plover]

Probably not this much, it usually takes 4 years. So if they really started in 2023 we will get tes 6 in 2027

[midnight stag]

But will it be on the Xbox series X or next gen

[timid drum]

It's better to just wait instead of taking guesses and getting false hope

[midnight stag]

Half say Xbox series s/x and the other half say next gen on the web and they said already that they planed it to be on Xbox series x I just don’t know anymore

[feral viper]

It will run on the Amiga 4000T

[raven helm]

I’d like a game with two of the big provinces in it like combine Skyrim and cyrodil and see if modern hardware can handle it

Walking Solitude to leyawin would be insane

Or winterhold to anvil

[pulsar root]

One big world space is enough.

[jade plover]

Just buy a pc instead

[wind pier]

Since there's no channel for it, I'm asking here. Is the PS5 version of ESO any better than the PS4 version? I don't have the space for the PS5 version, but I do for the PS4 version on my extended hard drive.

[midnight stag]

What if in es6 we can build a Dwemer robot kind of like automatron in fallout 4 DLC

[feral viper]

My problem with two or more provinces always falls to Story, and Worldbuilding.

The scale is irrelevant. At its absolute smallest, Skyrim is the size of France. At its largest, it's the size of Kazakhstan.

Even at its smallest, you could fit Skyrim, Morrowind AND Oblivion in Truescale Skyrim more than 5000x over.

So scale isn't a problem. They can make the worldspaces as big as they want.

[jade plover]

i think when people ask for more than one province they do it becaues they want to see more stuff. skyrim is already big enough to explore it for more than 100 hours as i said before, but you will see all creatures and visit all cities in first 30 hours

[feral viper]

Somewhat hilariously... The landable area of any planet in Starfield is about 64 square km. For 1000 planets, that's 64,000 square km for the game.

France is 550,000 square km. That means, at its smallest, a Truescale Skyrim is still 8x larger than every landable area in Starfield..

[jade plover]

but this actually depends on developers. if they want they can have hundreds of scpecies in one game

like rdr2 is not the biggest game map but it probably has all possible american animals in it

[feral viper]

Yeah, and my position is, that's a pipe dream at best, delusional at worst.

Every creature, every environment, every architectural style, all of it requires man hours.

You only have so many man hours to invest. Which means you have limited things you can make.

If you split your focus between 2 provinces, by the very nature of doing so, EACH province will have less diversity and be less represented..

[feral viper]

Oh, not even close. Even in the region it takes place in, there are thousands of species.

It's a crude pop-culture snapshot of the environment, not an accurate depiction by any measure.

[jade plover]

i thought you can land in any part of the planets and will get a procgened territory every time, so every planet has infinite scale with this system, isnt it? how is it just 64 km?

[feral viper]

I have experimented with it, and am pretty sure that's not how it works. I say this, because you can land on opposite sides of a planet, and walk to your original landing site.

So unless every planet I've tested it on is a special set environment (there are 1000, I haven't tested it on all of them) then the planets themselves are actually one-time procedurally generated and consistent.

[jade plover]

my point was you can fit as many creatures as you want in a game no matter how big is it

[jade plover]

okay that makes starield even worse than i thought

[feral viper]

But that's besides the point. The point was that the actual world of Tamriel is orders of magnitudes bigger than what we've seen for decades. There's no reason to go to 2 provinces for size when you can just change the scale.

[jade plover]

yes, thats true

[feral viper]

Starfield has a lot of positives. It's worldspaces are not one of them.

But, to stay on topic... My second issue with 2 provinces involves Worldbuilding and Story.

I'll say it, and I'll make it blunt.

Worldbuilding in Oblivion and Skyrim is mediocre, at best. In most cases, it's shallow and superficial. In general, I have no reason to believe that Bethesda is interested in, or capable, of deep and meaningful worldbuilding.

And that's focusing on only ONE province. By the nature of labour, doing TWO provinces would mean splitting the effort across two very distinct cultures, environment sets, and peoples.

The math is clear. Doing so WILL result in less effort available for each province. Which means a half assed result.

And since I already think the worldbuilding is bad, I would rather not encourage something that, definitionally, would mean worse worldbuilding.

[jade plover]

in fallout 4 it was meaningful i really liked it. a lot of things had purpose, like you xan find places where they dig stones and you can find places were was it used. you can find factories that produce things that you see on shelves in stores. you can find places where were produced robots that you fought recently. you can find roads and rails that connect cities and towns, you can find gyms and theaters where people spent their time etc. fallout 4 has one of the best worldbuildings

so bethesda is capable of it

[feral viper]

Only when they're actively copying our real world, and just breaking it.

They've shown they're amazing with Americana. Not with worldbuilding..

[jade plover]

hmmm

maybe. but it was good anyway

[feral viper]

Yes, it was.

Fallout 2 is my favourite, but 4 may have actually surpassed 3 in my heart...

[dim reef]

That's... what the Fallout series is mostly about.
Our world but borked up.

Bethesda, Black Isle, Obsidian.
It was always like that

[feral viper]

Oh, I know. And Bethesda and Black Isle ete good at it. Obsidian, not so much.

But Bethesda, building a world from scratch? They stumbled into that once, and have never managed to repeat the act

And because I have no reason to believe that they will luck into it a second time, I would rather see the efforts not spread across two diverse areas, and result in even worse end products than what we've gotten.

[pure latch]

I have the bug where I can’t interact with mannimarco. I also forgot to grab the colossal black soul gem. Firstly can I still beat the quest without it, and if so do I just have the standard bug that is happening with this quest.

[feral viper]

Though, I will note, in rewatching The Expanse again, I found a place I hate more than Cheyenne in Starfield...

Cowboy songs in Chinese are like audio torture... Mars is truely a terrible place in that universe...

[raven helm]

Skyrim isn’t based on France tho

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/raquita-gif-9201516

Tamriel, at Truescale, is somewhere between 12 million square km, or 12 million square miles. This puts it between being slightly bigger than Europe, and being slightly bigger than Africa (which is enormous, for the record).

Now, BECAUSE of this, Skyrim at the lower end of that scale, would be approximately the size of France (or Ukraine, there's some vague range there).

France, has an area of about 550,000 square km. Therefore, I was using France as an approximate reference to the size of Skyrim in-universe to highlight the discrepancy in scale, and the utter irrelevance of needing 2 provinces to increase the size of the game space.

[raven helm]

Skyrim is probably easier to compare to Ukraine because the more similar shape

[feral viper]

In terms of shape, sure. But in terms of actual area, Ukraine is probably a bit too big for the lower end of the scale.

[final jasper]

ah geeze that's basically going to be a launch title for the next wave of consoles

[livid ingot]

I imagine Tamriel as being a little bit larger than the Indian subcontinent

And Nirn to be similar in size to (a very dense) Mars

This was all based on calculations made years ago which I can't remember

[primal olive]

I remember seeing math outting Tamriel around the size of America

[feral viper]

Yeah, there have been a lot of estimates over the years.

I personally prefer Lady N's scale, but that's because I like big things.

https://tenor.com/view/30k-40k-warhammer-warhammer-40k-titan-gif-2106530334513291119

[feral viper]

The only clear official statement is from Arena. Where it is stated that Tamriel is either 12 million square miles, or km, depending on who is quoting it.

I recall 12m square miles, but my Arena manual is long gone at this point. And I admit, it MAY be because I assume all Americans are backwards savages and use nonsense like Miles, and doubt an American made game would measure it in Kilometers.

[karmic shard]

😑

[primal olive]

gwah hammer

[primal olive]

why are we backwards for using a different measurement system this just pointlessly rude

[feral viper]

A: it was a joke.

B: I could justify it as not a joke if necessary, but that would be demeaning and I'd rather not..

[pulsar root]

I would not go there because Big brother mods watch us...eyes everywhere.

[feral viper]

Yes, hence why i would rather not.

[feral viper]

I did laugh during a recent documentary I watched regarding the Titanic though. It was fantastic, but the described the damage from their simulation, with one of the fatal punctures being 'the size of 2 pieces of paper', and all I could think was:

'Americans will use any measurements but Metric'.

But, back to the real point.

No matter the Truescale you use, you could comfortably make the Playspace whatever size you want, up to an INCLUDING bigger than every landable location in Starfield.

So 'a bigger world' isn't really a reasonable excuse to do 2 provinces.

[shell swan]

Yeah, especially since they have scaled down pretty much everything in modern titles.

[feral viper]

Yeah. And like, I'm from a smaller Canadian province. The amount of different biomes we have here, sometimes within walking distance of eachother, outstrips any game Bethesda has ever made.

So even that isn't a necessary excuse.

Within an hours walk of me, I have mixed woodland, rocky coastline, open scrubland, and marshland.

That's basically as much diversity as Oblivon. Except in the real world.
.

[midnight stag]

Anyone think that they’ll mention anything about es6 at Xbox showcase if anything at all because there is a lot of rumblings about it now but nothing is confirmed I think they’re afraid of confirming it

[glass marlin]

Doubt it. They'll probably showcase it a year or so before release.

[midnight stag]

That’s what I’m saying but just confirm it and let them come out next year

[glass marlin]

Reminder it hasn't even been a full two years since ES6 has went into full production stages, so I doubt it's ready to be showcased.

[midnight stag]

I wouldn’t say showcase just confirmation they did starfield that way

[glass marlin]

We've already had confirmation back in 2018.

Give it a couple or so years. I don't want ES6 to be a repeat of Skyrim where a lot of stuff is shallow or outright incomplete due to time constraints (looking at you Civil War questline).

[midnight stag]

Do they have a confirmation console for es6 or am I jumping at conclusions

[glass marlin]

You mean what consoles it's going to be on? Xbox and PC first, then maybe PlayStation down the line.

[midnight stag]

I mean Xbox series x and s

[glass marlin]

idk I'm a PC player.

The only thing we know about in terms of ES6 was what person would be put into the game through the donation contest a little while ago...or at least I THINK we know.

[midnight stag]

To tell me the truth I’ve been told to go to pc

But I don’t see the appeal

I can’t type

[glass marlin]

PC has the biggest potential in terms of modding, and that's what a majority of players get an Elder Scrolls game for. There's some stuff you can do via modding on PC that is outright impossible to do on console.

Whether it's due to use of 3rd party tools or simply storage space.

[pastel plank]

Any news on oblivion remastered updates?

[glass marlin]

Same thing the mods are always saying: if it's posted on #elder-scrolls-announcements, it's happening.

[midnight stag]

To tell you the truth if they just confirmed if es6 is coming to Xbox series x/s then I would be fine but it has not been officially announced yet for those consoles directly

[glass marlin]

It's obviously coming to Xbox Series X/S. Elder Scrolls mainline games have always been on Xbox since Morrowind. There's no reason that would change, especially when Microsoft owns the company.

[midnight stag]

But some people are saying it’s coming to next gen and I truly don’t want that to happen so I don’t know

[jade plover]

Why are you even asking it? I just don't understand the purpose

[feral viper]

Well, they're definitely coming to Xbox, but it's unclear if it's going to be the X/S, or whatever comes next.

[midnight stag]

Exactly that’s why I want it confirmed

[feral viper]

And you won't until Bethesda gives us a release date.

No point worrying about something you can't control

[midnight stag]

And they said they have worked on it since starfield but they’ve probably worked on it scince 2020 for all we know

[feral viper]

Depends how you define 'Worked On'. Chances are, concept work has been on the go since 2011

[pulsar root]

Let Bethesda cook

[midnight stag]

Well they’ve been cooking since 2018

[feral viper]

Yup, and they cooked an entire game in that time.

[midnight stag]

And you’d think they’d have something to tell us soon maybe this year

[glass marlin]

Pre production isn't the same as full on production.

[feral viper]

I don't expect anyone to tell me anything, really.

But then again, I've dealt with Games Workshop for almost 30 years, so tight-lipped silence until the moment something is ready for release is sort of the order of the day.

[feral viper]

Besides, new Skywind gameplay video just dropped. That's more than enough to placate me.

[jade plover]

How far are they from release? I was sure that project was abandoned

[jade plover]

Why does it matter if it will be on xbox or not?

[primal olive]

they specifically mean series s/x with the specific hardware and requirements

[feral viper]

Nope, not dead. Getting close to done I hear.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, they're worried about having to upgrade from the x/s series. But with the game several years away at this point...

I don't think it should be that big of a concern. Plenty of time to put money aside for that purpose.

[feral viper]

It is the reality of Gaming, at the end of the day. You WILL have to upgrade hardware eventually, regardless of whether you're on PC or Console.

Complaining about that reality is like complaining about having to go get groceries.

[timid drum]

Both expensive 😂

[feral viper]

These days, yeah. Celery is $5.99 here.

[timid drum]

Damn

[feral viper]

I'm probably going to need to plant more. Already have 2 rows of the stuff.

[timid drum]

Just checked and it's the same here xd
Ah nice

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/outrageous-egregious-preposterous-jackie-chiles-seinfeld-kramer-amazing-gif-10683223

Have never tried growing it though, so we will see.

May need to set up some hydroponics for it instead.

[jade plover]

How much of a celery?

[feral viper]

They label then as heads, but they're usually like 6-7 stalks total. You're lucky if you get 10.

They're pretty anemic these days.

[wide garnet]

My addition: Darn hilarious!

[feral viper]

Good to see ya Maku, haven't seen your name for a bit.

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/did-you-miss-me-while-i-was-gone-undead-revenge-im-back-come-back-gif-10353077464601883240

[feral viper]

Always

[wide garnet]

I got the idea for my addition from this:

Eddy, from Ed Edd N Eddy (on the subject of his “swamp ride” scam from High-Heeled Ed): Gruesome! Tasteless! Hideous and repulsive! Pure genius!

[primal olive]

the day we're not stuck to the same 10 races will be glorious

[harsh vector]

You know what would be cool. IF for elder scrolls 6 Bethesda, got a guy with a economy pHD , and create real time currency that constantly changes

[livid ingot]

A working economy would always be pretty cool. You could actually roleplay a travelling merchant or what-have-you and actually have things be a little interesting. But this is a function that most players would never notice, so I don't think the resources will ever be invested to make it happen.
Would definitely be cool though.

[primal olive]

spears spears spears halberds glaives spears

[livid ingot]

Let me have a goedendag and I'll be happy

[primal olive]

naginata for the blades ofc

a goedendag is dope but niche I think, imagine stick shields

[feral viper]

I'm not sure you'd need a PhD to do enough to make it feel like a functional economy.

Though really, anything would be better than what we currently have.

[verbal gate]

Does clavicus vile ever physically appear outside of his talking statue/shrine?

[livid ingot]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:RG-npc-Clavicus_Vile.jpg
He makes an appearance in Redguard, in the novels, and in TES:O it seems.

[verbal gate]

Dude made a throne out of a tree stump

[nimble pond]

I mean if we can poison the well water or spread disease to the livestock, we can certainly control a city's economy 🙂

[feral viper]

Someone's been playing Crusader Kings i see.

[nimble pond]

I was gonna say something about tariffs but decided not to go that dark 🤮

But what really bothers me rn is we have ice magic, but no ice cream!

Or yk, using ice or fire spells on food to freeze or smoke it to preserve longer from spoilage on survival option.

Plus, smoke would be cool to mess with in spells. Would like the illusion skill tree to be more magician-like. Handy spells for the sneaky and thievery.

[verbal gate]

I keep wanting to get into eso but I keep getting so lost lol

[jade plover]

To make it work like a real economy, npc's must participate in it, i mean buy and sell stuff to each other. I dont think its possible. You can do it of course but it will be buggy af, remember they had to fix ai in oblivion because npc's were killing each other for skooma? Imagine what will they do with in game economy. But economy that based only on player can exist pretty well, i think it was made in fable, im not sure

[jade plover]

Mages probably do it, but not everyone is a mage. Girl in riften uses iceghost teeth to cool down her meat

[jade plover]

Why are you getting lost?

[potent tinsel]

does anyone know what game this refers to ? #elder-scrolls-announcements message

[verbal gate]

Just not really used to these kinds of games. Seems there's so much stuff idk a thing about like dungeons land whatnot

[feral viper]

Decisions paralysis eh? Yeah, that can be a problem

[feral viper]

I'm assuming a Hotfix for Oblivion Remastered.

[feral viper]

That's why I think a simplified simulation is more viable. I actually think I talked about such in my now woefully out of date rambling...

[dim reef]

I mean Obsidian tried the whole unique economy thing with it's factions but people mostly care about the lore behind it.
No one actually bothered using only NCR money or Legion coins instead of caps.

So it'd be mostly a gimmick

[tight charm]

Real time currency is a little different from the various currencies in New Vegas.

[feral viper]

Yeah, and...

No, no. Not going to comment on New Vegas. I learned my lesson. That game is ludus non grata.

Point being you don't need actual economics to make a economic simulation function on a gameplay end.

All you need is a logical and interactive way for prices to fluctuate, so players can engage with the system in a predictable and interesting way.

[tight charm]

Yeah, the value of currency in TES is… mediocre at best. XD

[feral viper]

Even a basic 4x model for economies would work.

Sites have a value for 'Production' and a value for 'Demand'. If the Production value is higher than the Demand, prices drop. If the Demand is higher than the Production, prices rise.

You can do a lot with something that simple.

[tardy tiger]

It's never really been a focus of TES. Which has the world building all the place for figuring out economy which also has little work put into it.

[feral viper]

Well, my declining opinion on the worldbuilding not withstanding, the real potential of actually going down this route, is the systems that could easily play into it..

For instance, once you have a basic Production and Supply system in place, you need to have a way to model trade and supply lines. Then you need a way to disrupt those lines.

Both of these play into activity generation, both in clearing disruptions, AND exploiting them.

This in turn opens up opportunities for more dynamic encounter generation, which contributes to variable and life-like worlds.

Which further contributes to emergent gameplay options.

Because despite their claims to the contrary, Bethesda doesn't make living worlds. But they SHOULD be trying to pursue that, because even a basic facsimile of a living world creates emergent options which vastly increases gameplay potential.

[nimble pond]

Maybe we can get a useable torture chamber. You know, for a new dialogue choice. Interrogation!

[nimble pond]

Hmm economy? Curriencies? Billionaires? Guess there's some fun to be had with that.
https://imgur.com/some-people-just-want-to-watch-gigantic-stacks-of-money-burn-g4bIU0A

[feral viper]

Remember, it's not cannibalism if their net worth is more than $500m.

So says Y'ffre.

[dim reef]

ludus what now?

Also jokes aside i think Cruelty Squad had a system like what you're talking about.
There's a stock market that fluctuates, affecting how much stuff you sell or buy

[feral viper]

Ludus non grata. Bastardized Latin for 'Unmentionable Game'.

[stable zodiac]

Hmm dynamic economy systems... I can see Spiffing Brit's video on this already: "TES6's economy is perfectly balanced"

[feral viper]

Right, lets go into a bit of detail.

All locations fit into 1 of 2 categories. Hostile, and Friendly.

Friendly Locations are Mines, Farms, Settlements and Cities, etc.

Hostile Locations are those whic generate encounters. Dungeons, caves, ruins, etc.

All Friendly Locations have both Supply, and Demand. Their Supply is measured by the goods they produce and have access to through trade routes, and their demand is how many of those goods they consume.

They are connected through Routes. Just follow the roads, it's not complicated. You can add distance and regions to this to depredicate Supply along routes, simulating trade networks, but it's not strictly necessary (though I would recommend it).

Hostile Locations generate Threat. Effectively a Heatmap depending on the inhabitants and the level. If the Threat covers a Friendly Location, or a Route, they cut off that route.

In this way, Hostile Locations actively interact with the trade and supply networks of the economy to create fluctuations in the Supply. And this, in turn, created fluctuations in item value that the Player can engage with.

On top of that, if also gives worldly interactions which can feed into quest generation, world encounters, Rumours, and NPC activities.

For instance, if the threat of 2 sites overlap, they could come into conflict. Meaning if the player travels in the area, it could spawn both bandits and goblins, causing them to fight.

If Supply gets too low because too many Routes are disrupted, the City Guard may go out to clear a Hostile Location, actually... You know, doing their jobs.

Fighters Guild jobs could be generated specifically related to Hostile Locations which threaten Routes, actually putting you to work directly in the world.

Etc.

So you don't need the deeper parts of Trade and Economics to create an engaging and worthwhile system.

Inflation, currency purity and debasement, taxation and tarrifs, and goods quality aren't supper necessary.

You just need the basics, and you can get a lot of mileage from that.

[tardy tiger]

I know the civil war had sabotage plans. the grain mill and smelter have destroy animations while the lumber mill appears to have not been finished.

Guess that was an early Civil war plan where missions could affect game world economy.

https://i.imgur.com/ogQurLa.gif

[feral viper]

Yeah. I can't exactly say why the idea was dropped, but I suspect it was because the Civil War was becoming the main focus of the game, rather than just a single questline.

Which, IMO... Good thing to drop. The Civil War was terrible anyway.

[tardy tiger]

Given the state of npcs I'd imagine it just wasn't finished for the deadlines so got heavily cut back.

[feral viper]

Overall though, a simple Economy System and it's contributing systems are one of those things which, yes, takes a bit of work. But you get a lot of potential out of it.

Like a good Procgen system, putting the work in at one end gives you way more at the other end, especially when compared to hand crafting.

[manic kernel]

Who do you guys think won the war? Do you think Skyrim got its liberation and is on its own in the new game?

[tardy tiger]

Unlikely to say anything.

Skyrim will be destroyed in the background to hide player actions

[feral viper]

All I hope is that Ulfric and every one of his Jarls died in the process.

[manic kernel]

What do you mean destroyed?

[tardy tiger]

TES will use another Crisis to kill the important people so they can never mention the player character to keep them vague. Said crisis will also be used to hide whatever choices happened in the area.

Not Like Vvardenfell and Cyrodiil faired well after their games.

Any ending will be irrelevant to other actions.

[manic kernel]

Got it, also do you think we will get to fight the Thalmore menace? 😈

Ever since I found out they were claiming to be the ones to end the oblivion crisis and denounce Metin septim I have been against them 😂

[tardy tiger]

Depends entirely on the story they want to tell.

[manic kernel]

I estimate 2028 earliest we will get for a release

[livid ingot]

It's always possible we might take a big leap forward in time too - hundreds of years after Skyrim's timeline

[manic kernel]

I would be so butthurt if the Thalmore become the emperor's bro

[pulsar root]

I don't think having a major time jump is necessary at least not the one from Oblivion to Skyrim. Even going by 50 years is more then enough.

[manic kernel]

Man I want to be able to become emperor and become a warlord 😂

[feral viper]

I think a major leap forward would be a terrible decision, and the only function it could serve would be to write off the Dominion between games.

Which would be an utter waste

It would be almost as poor a choice as 2 Provinces.

[livid ingot]

It was the same with Skyrim's timeskip. So they'll do it if it's the story they want to tell, regardless of the opportunities we see. 😅

[feral viper]

Skyrim's I can at least accept, given Oblivion. Give us time to wash the taste of cardboard out of our mouths, and give the Empire at least a waft of identity back.

Oblivion also set an actual continental crisis, and just skipping 10 years to have another apocalypse in some province would have been overkill. Yl

You'd quickly be entering WoW territory with that sort of nonsense.

How Azeroth's populations have survived an apocalyptic war every 2 years for the last 25 years is beyond the abilities of any rational mind.

[livid ingot]

You just can't go a day without smack talking Oblivion can you, no matter how tangential. 😉
I do agree though that doing a bit of a soft reboot was probably part of the intention. Just not because for Oblivion, but the series as a whole.
I dunno if BGS cared remotely about overdoing it. It was already remarkable we had four big crises with four legendary anonymous heroes saving the day within - what - forty years or whatever it was. What's one more to the pile?

Same reason they nuked Morrowind

One big soft reboot for the entire series

[pulsar root]

Nah they didn't need to do that. Didn't need to make Dunmer fans(Not me) feel bad about it. Even if Red Mountain exploded and damage only half of the province, far better then all of it.

[livid ingot]

Not saying they needed to - just that's what they wanted. A fresh start. A new Morrowind, a new Cyrodiil, etc, to shake things up for a soft reboot.

[feral viper]

My love is Old Testament. If a day goes by where I'm not a vengeful monster, do I even exist?

Still, me, personally... I like the Dominion. I like what they offer. Id hate for them to Halo Infinite things.

[pulsar root]

Sure but not blowing up an entire province was really necessary.

[primal olive]

they did the same thing the Argonians did tbh

[manic kernel]

You Thalmore sympathizer you 😂

[primal olive]

?

[manic kernel]

Trying to justify such a heinous act, nobody disrespects my boy Martin

[primal olive]

the Thalmor are also wrong, I hate fascist organizations
where did you even get that idea from 😭

I HATE the Thalmor for how cruel they are

[manic kernel]

The message was saying that I hated the Thalmore because they were trying to denounce Martin as the one who ended the crisis and they were claiming that they were the ones that ended it

[primal olive]

correct, and I said that the Argonians also claimed in a lesser yet similar fashion how they toughly fought it back

[manic kernel]

I see, okay apologies, I misunderstood but you had said

[pulsar root]

They also invaded Morrowind while the Dunmer were down(Or that one argonian army did and yes I know about the slavery part the Dunmer did at one point).

[primal olive]

yup same group

meanwhile the Dunmer essentially kept most of their land at the end of things

[jade plover]

I dont know how is it rebooting anything. I think the point of big time leap was made to introduce players a new era.
If they'd want soft reboot they would go to akavir. So we would have a completely new game but with the same features

[primal olive]

ough I wanna write about the continental divide in a Falmeris manner about the Druadach and the Jeralls

[frank shuttle]

PLease bethesda make the new game also in VR

please make Oblivion remasterd also in VR you have done this with skyrim and its beatifull

[feral viper]

It's a soft reboot. You don't erase what happened, but you remove it in time enough that it's no longer directly relevant.

Like what GW did with Age of Sigmar

[frank shuttle]

is there a person of bethesda online?

[jade plover]

it is never relevant anyway. morrowind wasn't relevant for oblivion, daggerfall wasn't relevant for morrowind

[feral viper]

And that's true for localised events.

Oblivion was a continent wide invasion from Hell. It didn't JUST impact Cyrodiil.

Everything else gets stopped before it can spread across Tamriel.

[soft temple]

It's not relevant but I'm still not sure why they went with the 200 year time jump between Oblivion and Skyrim. If nothing else, it's odd that Red Mountain is still spewing ash that long after erupting.

[brazen citrus]

Is there no ESO chat? Or is this just ES in general?

[feral viper]

Probably for the visual effect. If IT WAS spewing that much ash after 200 years, all of Morrowind would be buried.

[feral viper]

This discord is for game made by Bethesda Game Studios specifically.

ESO is made by ZeniMax Online, and so has its own platform (forums)

[soft temple]

Yeah, but the ash all over the south of Solstheim already made me sad enough. 😂

[brazen citrus]

Gotcha, thanks 🙏

[feral viper]

Hey, it was the most character we've had in a TES game since Tribunal.

Bleak beauty, even if only a little.

But the time skip was almost certainly for at least 2 reasons.

First, so they didn't have to directly deal with the situations that would naturally arise from the end of Oblivion's main questlines. The only options would be have the ensuing chaos dominate any story they wanted to tell, or simply handwave it away.

By jumping ahead, they could give lip service to it without having it dictate their next games narrative.

[verbal gate]

Hircine make an appearance on any ESO chapter? Ik he's in a dungeon or something

[feral viper]

And the second definite reason was the need to have things semi-stable before you drop another apocalypse on the world.

[brazen citrus]

That name sounds familiar

I’ve done a lot of stuff in ESO, I think I’ve came across them

[feral viper]

He has a few minor appearance, even in the base game in Valenwood. But I don't think he's had a major presence in any chapter yet.

[soft temple]

Every time I think about the fact that we got three Elder Scrolls games in 9 years and haven’t had any new releases in 14 years I get sad. 😔

[feral viper]

The only thing that makes me sad these days...

Is ketchup on mac and cheese. That such evil can exist in the world is truely a sign of perpetual sorrow.

[timid drum]

Thank you! Sadly my younger sister got caught in that ketchup on Mac n cheese cult

[sharp tulip]

I wish the enchanting skill would make a comeback.
I would love to be able to put multiple enchantments onto something again and not have my enchanted items be worse than what you can find ingame

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/barstool-gif-16710893329689193964

[feral viper]

Well, it did make a comeback. In Skyrim.

It just... Had some issues.

[sharp tulip]

I don't remember, can you enchant something with multiple enchants?

[feral viper]

Yes, you can unlock the ability to place 2 enchantments on an item

I think it's an Expert level perk

[jade plover]

I disagree here. Unique artifacts must be a lot more powerful than anything that player can make

[sharp tulip]

I'm okay with that, I just want to be able to put Fortify Speed AND Fortify Athletics on my boots, and not have to pick only one.

[sharp tulip]

Ah well... I haven't played Skyrim in a long while so I forgor

[nimble pond]

Eh, I like being able to make whatever I want. The artifacts I just like collecting to put on my wall, like a musuem 🙂 Or as special tools that unlock something/someplace otherwise inaccessible.

Anywho, bring on the fairies, pixies, sprites, or whatever. Seen a few in ESO, been wanting one as a follower. Maybe a small cluster of them? Instead of just one follower, you got a couple acting as one, small but mighty!

[primal olive]

how it feels to kill and eat basic fans of the series and those people who hopped on the hype train for oblivion

[feral viper]

The problem there is... Someone MADE those artifacts in the first place.

If you can't match the power of artifacts, where did the artifacts even come from?

[feral viper]

They (and everyone really) need to put the Fae back in Faerie

To hell with tree people. Give me REAL Spriggans. Angry, human hating gnome people who steal children.

Somewhat hilariously, despite being small, Spriggans were typically classed as a type of Giant.

No one ever accused the Cornish of making sense.

The changes to the Fae in general is another Gygaxism that grates me. They aren't nature spirits. The general fae association with nature, just like Druids, is a blight on fiction.

Fae are trickers, keepers of secrets, guardians of the dark and forgotten places. They are old, ancient, and fickle, often cruel. They are found just as often in places of dense civilisation as they are in the wilderness, for just as a man may live in a city, he may also find a place in the deepest forests.

[thick parrot]

Sounds scandalous 🤣

[pulsar root]

watcha gonna do about it falmer mon. /joke

[primal olive]

falmerfalmercalmerdalmr

Gelebor my goat we need more snow elves and a more complete writing system for falmeris

even if it's mostly drawn from Ayleidoon as it already is

[spare plaza]

Thank you

ok that is NOT from us, and check out the note on the bottom

It would be considered, Rumors & Datamined Content

FYI, I will be removing those posts, just so others do not get confused from information not directly from us.

[pliant valve]

Ahh okay, that's why I reached out and wanted to check the vilidity

[spare plaza]

np

unless its on one of our sites, or announced directly from us.... take it with a grain of salt....

[pliant valve]

I was busy today thought I missed a bombshell of info lol

[spare plaza]

i will say that Todd has said that TES6 will come before Fallout5

[stable zodiac]

So what was the post? Just so I know that is false info if I come across it of course.

[glass marlin]

Do you think ES6 would go another game without the Thalmor as the major threat or will this be the game we end them?

[pulsar root]

Unknown, but I hope they're still around....at least for the gameplay of fighting them.

[primal olive]

Thalmor are likely to be a threat as this isn't the age of Men anymore

[pulsar root]

Naw. The age of daedra is over.

[primal olive]

e3 was the age of men

4th era is the decline

[pulsar root]

Naw. Besides eras shouldnt really be "Well this era Man is doing bad" Kinda dumb. Not trying to sound angry cause text doesn't always convey emotion well. 🪨

[feral viper]

4th Era is the Era of Progress! Tear down the old and build something better! Trample the legacy of Tiber the Tyrant and replace it with the promise of something greater!

[noble verge]

Feels like it goes in cycles. Men take over Tamriel, they lose Tamriel, there's chaos, the elves fail to make any long-lasting headway, men take over Tamriel, and the cycle repeats.

[glass marlin]

Also as of Skyrim we're without an Emperor again.

[noble verge]

They'll probably get another one. The mere possibility of an Emperor dying without an heir was a huge topic of conversation as far back and as far away as TES III.

[feral viper]

Almost like Bethesda's writers have a clear anti-elf bias or something.

[noble verge]

Almost as if the elves' egos and unwillingness to view the majority of Tamriel's population as people tends to sabotage their attempts to take control of Tamriel.

[feral viper]

Humans are no better, Bethesda just likes to pretend they are, and then uses inane plot devices to prop them up.

Like the Alessia Covenant and literal divine right.

Men, in TES, are no better than Elves. They're just treated better by the writers when giving wide historical strokes, regardless of how nonsense that is when you look at the minutae

Just look at the Septims. A barely functional gaggle of incompetent morons who were constantly struggling against their own ineptitude and fighting near unending revolts and civil wars amongst their own inbred family.

Yet every time we're told about them, from the top down?

'Greatest era of peace and prosperity'.

[glass marlin]

I mean we have Potema.

[soft temple]

Was it not the greatest era of peace and prosperity though?

[glass marlin]

It wasn't perfect, but it was definitely better than what went on during other eras.

[feral viper]

No. It was not.

[soft temple]

I mean, yeah. It's better than Ayleid warlords killing each other and enslaving humans.

[feral viper]

The Septims had barely a century of peace, TOTAL, spread across their entire dynasty.

And that's being generous. The entire 3rd age was nearly constant opposition TO their rule.

[soft temple]

"Greatest era of peace and prosperity" does not equal no war ever. It's just the longest period of time with the least amount of wars, starvation, etc.

[feral viper]

And as far as we can tell, the Merethic was that.

The history of major conflicts in Tamriel begins with humans migrating from Atmora. Which happens some 1000 years AFTER Elves do.

[pulsar root]

I'll take no slavery for Humans any day... cause Slavery is bad. Looks at Morrowind

[feral viper]

Yes, slavery is bad..

[soft temple]

We don't really know that much about the Merethic though, do we?

[feral viper]

Not in detail, no.

But what we do know, is that conflicts really started to ramp up when Humans came into the scene.

[soft temple]

It's close to 3,000 years of history, and I'd have a hard time claiming that about a period that long with little to no written works about it.

[primal olive]

3k years of history and it all came crashing down when genocider came a knocking /hj

[feral viper]

Oh, there's plenty written about it. It's just not particularly interesting

Because war is more interesting to players. We're explicitly told that the Altmer have records going back to the mid Merethic though, and we have plenty of references to events and situations in it..

[primal olive]

Altmer, Ayleid, Falmer, and I believe Dwemer are all known to be at least Middle Merethic if I remember right

[feral viper]

Yeah. And maybe Chimer, though their timeline is utter chaos

[primal olive]

doing my part to restore a healthy Nirn by killing all Men /j

[feral viper]

Because Bethesda and ZeniMax can't decide if the Exodus happened in the late Dawn, Merethic, or the early 1st Era.

[noble verge]

Also Ayleid Cyrodiil, whose economy was dependent on slavery and losing it meant a painful transition.

[primal olive]

eh more fun being unconfirmed like that in some ways

however, if they DID confirm it, we could possibly have a Falmer/Chimer interaction /j (implying that Bethesda would give the snow elves more content)

[feral viper]

The 1st Era economy was. We don't know about the Merethic.

[primal olive]

you WILL get more Ayleid/Dwemer content consumers /j

[feral viper]

It's unlikely the middle Merethic economy would have been, given Humans don't seem to have been on Tamriel at the time.

[primal olive]

Ayleids weren't always such Daedric worshippers either if I remember

[feral viper]

It's also worth noting... No slaves is a new thing. The Septims LITERALLY HAD SLAVES. So did the Remans

[primal olive]

I personally assume Ayleids slowly became more twisted, and slowly took more Nede slaves

[glass marlin]

Doesn't help a lot of Ayleids were Daedra worshippers.

[pulsar root]

All the more reason not to do it. It may suck for whatever ayleids that were half way decent but slavery is a no go. I do think it could be interesting if ayleids weren't gone as we thought they were(As a story beat)

[feral viper]

So? The Daedra aren't all bad.

Just like the Aedra aren't all good.

Lumping them into solid Gold/Bad camps is reductionist and actively ignored the fundamental complexity of religious doctrine and orthodoxy.

Even Bal has positive aspects. They just need to be tempered.

Given there is no God of Empathy, there is no explicitly moral god in TES.

[glass marlin]

What possitive aspects does Molag Bal have?

[primal olive]

not always and it became more excess like the Aeldari did once

[primal olive]

dominate your enemies? which keeps your people safe technically

[glass marlin]

I guess?

[feral viper]

His sphere would also include Hierarchies (necessary for any complex society with large numbers) Authority and Domestication.

[glass marlin]

I thought it was less "dominate your enemies" and more "dominate the weak."

[feral viper]

His sphere is Domination, period. Which covers both.

You just need to temper who you dominate, and how.

[pulsar root]

Molog Bal is not a good person. lol

[glass marlin]

Fair. It's just hard to look at him with an open mind when one of his titles is the King of...you know.

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. He is the sphere taken to the extreme. And nothing taken to an extreme is good.

But that doesn't make it without value. Even love pushed too far is toxic.

[glass marlin]

Of course I'm not disagreeing that all Daedra are bad, especially considering Stendaar cursed an entire family line over one man's actions.

[feral viper]

Very Yaweh of him

[glass marlin]

And of course the obvious "Akatosh being the father of all Dragons."

[pulsar root]

I just learned that playing the Oblivion remake. it was...jarring.

[glass marlin]

And then you have Tiber Septim becoming Talos, and we all know Tiber Septim wasn't a good person.

[feral viper]

But yeah... My beef is that every time the Mer do something immoral, they are condemned. Every time the Men do something immoral, they're given excuses to justify it.

It's like watching apologists justify the Old Testament.

Everyone sucks. Acknowledge that and work within it. Stop trying to make one side be better or more justified than the other.

All doing that does is perpetuate a very clear racial bias in the franchise.

[glass marlin]

Something something "and now I believe Mannimarco did nothing wrong" joke.

[feral viper]

Within the paradigm of the setting, he DIDN'T. He passed the test Lorkham set up

[glass marlin]

Oh

[feral viper]

The whole goal Lorkan had is to transcend mortality and become a god, expressing something new in the process. He succeeded.

He passed the test. The catch is, it's a pretty monstrous test.

[glass marlin]

So besides him and Tiber Septim, have any other mortals transcend mortality (not counting the Tribunal because they cheated)?

[feral viper]

Maybe Arkay. Maybe Bal, depending on how you interpret the Commentaries on the Mysterious Xerxes.

[glass marlin]

I need to read the Commentaries on the Mysterious Xerxes.

[feral viper]

Mankar is a bit of a madman, intentionally or otherwise, and you need to sorta twist what he says to make things fit.

I'm personally in the camp of... I don't care what the INTENT was, I care what the result is.

You can't go back through lore to fix incorrect statements to make stories and characters fit, you have to take them as presented and figure it out from there.

[glass marlin]

Fair

[primal olive]

gebor

[glass marlin]

Like obviously Manimarco wasn't a good person, but he did accomplish what Lorkhan wanted mortals to do.

[pulsar root]

Mankar was nuts and not a good narrator.

[feral viper]

If we go back and start just fixing things that don't fit, we start a very dangerous precedence.

[feral viper]

Exactly. Which is why I always took anything he said with a healthy dose of salt.

Buuuut... Part of my gradual falling out with the lore community was the increasing tendency to fix or fudge things that didn't actually fit it make sense, and to give voices like Mankar far more credence than they probably deserved.

Like taking Tomas Aquinas at face value.

Man had some interesting thoughts, but he was also a nut job who didn't understand how the world works.

[glass marlin]

I'm new to the lore community.

[feral viper]

I really should wax less about it, given that I jumped ship on every main forum for it months ago.

Old habits and what not.

[glass marlin]

You're fine.

[sharp tulip]

I wonder how long Mankar's paradise would have actually existed had Dagon won?
Paradise is pretty much the polar opposite of what Dagon wants. I don't think he would have allowed that to exist for long.

[glass marlin]

I think Mankar knew what he was doing, and opted to fool his followers.

[sharp tulip]

Yeah that's the thing, anyone that actually follows Dagon and wants him to walk the earth has to be one of the stupidest people in all of Elder Scrolls history.
He's the daedric prince of destruction and cataclysm. A Dagon victory means Nirn turns into a scorched, dead wasteland with giant crags and holes all over the ground, utterly ruined with barely any spots fit for man to live.

You can make arguments for a Dagoth Ur victory not being that bad, you can make arguments for an Alduin victory not being that bad (he resets everything to start all over again).
Dagon is just... everything is utterly destroyed and ruined, forever.

[glass marlin]

You actually increased my interest in the lore and how to look at it. :)

[glass marlin]

Was Alduin truly wanting to end the world or was he simply wanting to conquer it in his return? I know he's "The World Eater," but didn't he abandon his duties in favor of taking his father's place?

[sharp tulip]

I'm not 100% sure we actually know exactly what he wanted.
His purpose is to end the world so it can restart.
But when he was around in ancient times, he just ruled over mankind with an iron... claw.
But then he was in Sovngarde with the intent of "eating" it, right?

[glass marlin]

He used Sovngarde as his "all you can eat buffet," which was definitely full of souls thanks to the Civil War.

[sharp tulip]

I get different answers from everyone.
I've tried to argue that an Alduin win isn't the worst thing ever because it just goes back to man being subservient to dragons like before, which unless you defied them and got burnt to a crisp, wasn't the worst thing ever. I'd take dragon overlords over a lot of fates in Elder Scrolls, especially as their most devoted were gifted powers and boons.
But then people told me that's not what he wants, he wants utter extinction of mankind and an erasure of the world.

[glass marlin]

I'm not saying he's the worst. We barely know anything about his reign or the Dragon War in general.

[pulsar root]

....Being subservient to a Dragon is still not a good thing. Nor is having your soul eaten cause you got unlucky Alduin wanted to feed.

[frozen notch]

@hollow spoke
I just checked Google Trends. People do search more for Skyrim than for The Elder Scrolls

[sharp tulip]

I've read a couple things and they all kinda contradict each other.

First, that they weren't treated that badly, the dragons cared for them in their own way, and protected them from harm, which is why a lot of people willingly chose to be subservient to them, because it meant safety and that things like Daedra or enemies of your race wouldn't kill you. Security.

But then I also read that they were slaves, and were brainwashed by the dragon priests to be mindless servants that worshipped without thought, and they were basically zombies.

And then also still, that their most devoted were given boons, the dragon priest masks being created by the dragons as gifts and rewards to their most faithful. Also Goldbrand was created by ancient dragons and gifted to a knight that swore to protect them.

[feral viper]

The actual Dragon Cult is unclear.

For the most part, it seems like the Dragons weren't involved, so long as their tribute was paid. So only the priests really interacted with them.

Then, when something went wrong, the Dragons got involved and camped down HARD.

But, at least during the time of Ysgramor, the Dragon Cult was the standard. With Ysgramor himself being a member

[sharp tulip]

I can't tell if being ruled over by dragons was significantly worse than being ruled over by a lot of the ruling powers in Tamriel now.

[glass marlin]

Isn't there conflicting reports on where Dragons came from? Like some saying Atmora and some saying Akivir?

[feral viper]

Yes.

[sharp tulip]

All I read is that when Akatosh plunged his tail into the ground to "jumpstart" time after Lorkhan tricked him, it broke off and turned into Alduin and became the "end" of time, and then pieces came off of Alduin and became dragons.

[feral viper]

At the very least, there WERE dragons in Atmora. Whether the Atmoran dragons came from Atmora or not was a matter of contention

[feral viper]

Khajiit Myth suggests Alduin is just a son of Akatosh.

[sharp tulip]

What I don't really get is the whole "end of time" thing.
There's no end of time. Not in our world, at least, so I don't understand why in Elder Scrolls everyone sees the "end of time" as a natural thing that "just happens".
Time isn't going to suddenly end one day in real life and erase everything. That's not a thing, and Alduin is certainly an artifical way to do it.

[glass marlin]

Hell Alduin himself says he's the "first born of Akatosh."

[sharp tulip]

The only real thing we have that's closest to the "end and restarting of time" would be the "big crunch" and then another big bang happening.

[glass marlin]

And Paarthurnax calls him the "eldest" who "came before all others" without noting he was Akatosh himself.

[sharp tulip]

Do the dragons other than Paarthurnax see Akatosh as anything other than a false god to be defied?

[feral viper]

Eeeh... Depends how you define time.

Time is a complicated thing.

[glass marlin]

We don't know considering, in Skyrim, we only have full conversations with 4 Dragons total.

Alduin, Parthurnax, Odahving, and the Soul Carin Dragon.

[feral viper]

Yeah.

[sharp tulip]

I hope we see more dragons in ES6 and I hope they're not the kind we have to kill.

[feral viper]

As far as the end of time... TES is an absolute cluster when it comes to representation of how Time works in setting.

It A: doesn't understand non-lineariry

B: doesn't understand parallel timelines

C: doesn't understand causal agency and free will

D: doesn't understand finite time

So it's impossible to really tell what time is, how it functions, or how it could end in the context of the setting

[sharp tulip]

In ESO there's a dragon that fights you so you can prove you're worthy, and he says he'll not hold back and will kill you.
When you beat him, you don't kill him and instead spare him despite him saying he'll kill you.
I'd love more stuff like that.

But I worry that they'll make it so, canonically, the Dragonborn went across the land permanently killing all dragons and there's only like 1 left.

[glass marlin]

Doubt it considering Dragons mainly stayed in Skyrim and some of Morrowind. The only exception were the ones trapped in Elsewyr during the 2nd era.

Geez I cannot spell today.

[noble verge]

I meant more in the sense that elves have thus far proven themselves to be incapable of ruling over a continent populated almost entirely by humans and beastfolk because they place far too much importance on their race, and in that just about every time the elves took White Gold Tower, they proceeded to commit atrocities and traffic with Daedra for power.

[sharp tulip]

If they stay in Skyrim after the events of Skyrim they'll go so exctinct that we'll never see or hear of them again.

[glass marlin]

How so?

[noble verge]

In the Septim Empire, you could find elves in positions of power, up to and including being Emperor or regent. It'd be a cold day in Infernus before an elf regime would let a non-elf get anywhere near that sort of power.

[feral viper]

Well, largely because they haven't tried.

Mer are perfectly content having their own nations, their own independence, and their own cultures alongside one another.

Men need everything to be united and controlled.

The only two times Mer have tried to conquer Tamriel, is in response to the failure of Men doing the same.

[sharp tulip]

Literally every dragon that's not Paarthurnax or Odahviing is hostile and continues to attack cities and towns and the Dragonborn.
There can't be that many revived. The game throws them at you infinitely for gameplay reasons, but given the size of Skyrim and that Alduin never left Skyrim, there has to be a very finite amount, probably under like 40, and you kill a LOT during the events of the game.

Then it can be assumed the Dragonborn, after the events of the game, continues to kill them, and dragons killed by him have their immortality bypassed and are dead permanently. Even Alduin can't revive a dragon killed by the Dragonborn. Though it doesn't matter, because afaik Alduin won't return ever to be able to revive dragons like he did this time, so even ones killed by the Blades will never come back.

And if the Dragonborn kills Paarthurnax that's even less of a chance of dragons doing anything but throwing themselves at the Dragonborn and blades endlessly until they're all killed and go extinct.

[primal olive]

"not in our world" that's the thing, it functions differently in TES than it does IRL

[glass marlin]

I mean the Blades are in no shape to go on a Dragon killing crusade, and we still don't know what happens with the Dragonborn after the events of the Dragonborn DLC.

[sharp tulip]

Given the history of dragons and how mankind feels about them, and how literally every "peaceful" dragon ever was killed by the Blades and other dragon hunting groups, even if one left to go perch somewhere like the Dragontail Mountains just to chill, they'd kill them.

[primal olive]

the games are a poor representation of the size of Tamriel, Bethesda almost always fails at showing true size since they'd have to make massive worlds otherwise

[feral viper]

Anyway, time to watch Sinners. I'll be back later.

[noble verge]

The current Aldmeri Dominion invaded an Empire that had been content to be at peace with them for decades. Heck, they started by invading a province that was fully content to mind its own business (even if that business was "infighting").

[sharp tulip]

Just saying I don't think we'll see them again. I'd love to be wrong but I feel all we're going to get is some NPC dialogue about how "I read that years ago, dragons came back in Skyrim, but I've yet to see or hear of any since. Must just be drunken Nords spreading tales of fantasy again"

[primal olive]

we'll see dragons again, ESO is enough proof of that, plus not all dragons died/went to Skyrim

[sharp tulip]

ESO is very far in the past, and every dragon you encounter in it is dead by the time of Skyrim. Literally all of them were slain, and none were revived unless they were in Skyrim because Alduin never left Skyrim.

[glass marlin]

Hell there might be Dragons still in Atmora.

[primal olive]

true depending on interpretation of it

I personally have Atmora just perma frozen to where only beings immune to frost can survive

some people like Kirkbride have it frozen in time

[sharp tulip]

Or Akavir

[primal olive]

it's ultimately headcanon

[primal olive]

this is possible too! but tales from Akavir are mostly like how Europe heard about the mythical Asia before the silk road

[sharp tulip]

I'm just not a fan of them being nearly wiped out to exctinction or to the point of there being only 3 in the entire world again.
I'm a huge fan of dragons.

[primal olive]

me with the falmer

but yeah Bethesda won't let them be like that lol too much content to cut off

[sharp tulip]

Well Bethesda kinda kills off things from previous games all the time.

[primal olive]

the previous prisoners aren't there to interfere with the new story they're telling

[noble verge]

I think it'd be very possible for some of the dragons to not get themselves killed in the events of TES V and become a recurring, if rare, thing.

[primal olive]

Morrowind events don't really influence Oblivion tbh

[primal olive]

those who followed paarthurnax likely will remain as well, same with odahviing or however you spell it

[sharp tulip]

I am sad though I'll never hear of Paarthurnax again, and it won't be canon ever that he succeeded in persuading any dragons to follow the way of the voice, as you are given a choice.
And when Bethesda gives you a choice, they make neither option canon and opt instead to leave it up to mystery and never speak of it again, because they want their players to have agency over the story.

[primal olive]

hot take but evil dragonborn is the wrong choice

[sharp tulip]

A very very large number of people would disagree with you and say Paarthurnax both deserves to be killed and "could turn bad again one day you don't know"

[primal olive]

somehow I don't think the dragonborn would become a vampire when we see Auri-El abandoned his devoted for being infected

[primal olive]

I don't consider what people like that to say as something I care about when it's very simple minded

you don't kill over a possibility

that's like me killing Nords because the Atmorans went on an elf rampage for nearly an era, and worrying they might do it again (bad comparison)

[sharp tulip]

That's the thing though, Bethesda doesn't tell you whether it happened or not, because they want both to be true.
A lot of games do this. Take Bioshock for example. In the first game you can kill all the little sisters for power, or save them all. Because 2k wants the player's choice to matter, in the second game you hear some splicers discussing whether the main character killed them for power, or he's "chilling topside with them all living a life of luxury", and it's up to you to decide which one.

[primal olive]

I kinda hate the lack of confirmation some times tbh

[sharp tulip]

I hate they gave you the option to kill him at all.
I would argue him being around is an objectively good thing if it convinces some dragons not to kill people anymore, but too many people have argued I'm stupid for thinking that.

[primal olive]

like they had Nerevar just not around anymore so we don't even know which house they lead if any

[primal olive]

anyone who unironically sides with Delphine is arguably wrong

[pulsar root]

Its one thing to have a choice in game, its another for the actual canon decision being made.

[primal olive]

the dying faction lead by someone who doesn't even remember what the Blades are supposed to be lol

[sharp tulip]

Delphine doesn't even care about the Dragonborn, she sees you as a tool to use. If you keep following Delphine you'll end up as basically an assassin for the empire.
"Dragonborn go kill these people they're bad trust me"

[primal olive]

Esbern >>> Delphine

[sharp tulip]

True but even Esbern says that Paarthurnax deserves to die because justice demands it

[primal olive]

true he's also wrong for that

[sharp tulip]

Though he also insinuates that he personally would not like it to happen, but it's "probably" the right thing to kill him.

Esbern sounds like he'd be a dragon priest or something in years past tbh, he seems to really like that history more than anyone else in the game.

If they can't say whether Paarthurnax is dead or not, I would really like at least for there to be several peaceful dragons you can find in ES6 (that you are not given the option to kill!) and it's up to you to decide whether they are just that way or they follow the way of the voice and parthy is alive

[primal olive]

I'm glad they made it to where you couldn't kill Gelebor at all tbh

[pulsar root]

I'm wondering if Todd even likes Dragons.

[sharp tulip]

I also want to be able to summon Durnehviir again. I hate the idea of that poor guy being trapped in the Soul Cairn again when the Dragonborn inevitably dies, mortal that he is.

[primal olive]

some bland human supremacists would've probably tried to

[sharp tulip]

For now I'll headcanon that the Dragonborn taught the Graybeards the Shout to summon him for it to be passed on.

[pulsar root]

The whole idea of the Soulcairn is a nightmare let alone one dragon.

[primal olive]

I wonder what serana will do

[sharp tulip]

I honestly HATE the Soul Cairn.

[primal olive]

she'll probably be dead by the time of 6 since she can be cured of vampirism imo

they really shouldn't have merged the vampire dlc with the Falmer dlc icl

[sharp tulip]

People disagree with me whenever I discuss it but I freaking hate the idea of the Soul Cairn entirely.
Yeah it's cool to have dark things in the game, nice. I don't like the idea of it being eternal.

If I had to choose between being tortured by Molag Bal forever and being stuck in the Soul Cairn, I'd choose Molag Bal.

[pulsar root]

There's dark and then there's the soul cairn, like theoretically you piss off the wrong magic wielder and you're soul trapped WOOPS

[primal olive]

the soul cairn as a concept kinda sucks

and why is mannimarco not really involved with it

[sharp tulip]

Soul Cairn I'd argue is worse than torture as it's nothingness, limbo, and there is no escape. You cannot be free of it no matter what.
Going around talking to everyone there makes you feel like crap during that quest.
I would love some quest to destroy the Ideal Masters and free everyone.

[primal olive]

nothing, the void, is sithis's actually

[livid ingot]

Bork taking the position that limbo is worse than hell

[primal olive]

even the soul cairn is still a something

[sharp tulip]

Don't all Daedra go there for a time when they die?

[livid ingot]

that's what I call a hot take

[primal olive]

I don't remember what happens to them, only that they eventually their vestige reforms

[sharp tulip]

Limbo is nothing, without sensation, utterly devoid.
Hell is sensation. Bad sensation, but sensation, and stimulation, and things to experience.

And nearly every living thing in existence goes insane from lack of stimulation for a long enough time.

You'd come out far more okay from being a tortured prisoner of war than being locked in a rubber room for years.

[primal olive]

I wish we could've cured Vyrthur even if we had to kill him still

let him go somewhere else and not condemn him to coldharbour in death

[sharp tulip]

I wonder if they could have intelligent Falmer in ES6?

[primal olive]

unlikely but Gelebor did say he noticed their rise in intellect

Bethesda really set up the Falmer and Snow Elves for future appearances tbh

[sharp tulip]

Yeah that's what I mean. Guess it depends how far in the future ES6 is.

[primal olive]

I always compare them to how the Ayleids are essentially gone but there's wild elves possibly, and the dwemer are guaranteed dead, but the Falmer arent AS much as the Ayleids neatly

[sharp tulip]

I wonder how limited magic really is in the Elder Scrolls universe. It almost seems like there's no limit to it, and every game gives you new lore on some extremely, immensely powerful magic capable of insane things.
Like the Psijic Order can stop time to talk to you.

[primal olive]

temporal magic yea

[sharp tulip]

In the Shivering Isles there's this whole ritual to bind a Daedra to the body of the gatekeeper and infuse it with life and breath and all these things.
To essentially create life from nothing.

[primal olive]

the games just don't realistically show the scale of lore right, but Bethesda doesn't expand outside of games enough

[sharp tulip]

Like I wonder, if you studied hard enough, delved into forbidden magic enough, and were lucky enough to find certain things... could you like... turn yourself into a dragon?

[primal olive]

it's like taking 40k and then shortening it to only the games

[sharp tulip]

The Telvanni wizards are capable of extending their lives by thousands of years as well just through magic.

[primal olive]

with illusion magic you can appear that way but to actually change yourself would be unlikely

it's entirely possible I think however as there IS the Akaviri person who supposedly did

[sharp tulip]

I mean if they can take a Daedra soul and put it into a corpse and reanimate it, would it be impossible to take dragon bones, form flesh and organs over it, reanimate it and transfer your own soul inside it?

[primal olive]

I'm ready to watch this Telvanni experiment /j lol

[sharp tulip]

I'd fund it.

[pulsar root]

I don't think the idea of Magical not aging(Or even just an unexplained why) in a fantasy world is not absurd.

[primal olive]

you gotta reword that

[sharp tulip]

If I was as long lived as an elf and I was in Elder Scrolls, I'd be doing crazy experiments like that.
I'd be the weird crazy guy you find journals of going like "I'm so close... I only need more time! More time! I can taste it... my experiments, the results... yes, I can see it!" and then you find me dead at the end of the dungeon from a single thief who tried to steal my artifact.

[primal olive]

I'd be some priest NPC who's devoted to Auri-El

or a reachman who kills Nordic invaders

[sharp tulip]

I'd also be praying to all the different gods hoping that one of them would give me a gift like they do sometimes to desperate people who pray.
But then my luck they'd curse me for being greedy and wanting something like that and I'd lose the use of my arms and legs.

I'd meta game like crazy lmao. I'd go to all the daedric shrines to get all the artifacts, I'd try doing weird things like combining them, I'd drink hundreds of potions to increase my intelligence, I'd talk to npcs about forbidden knowledge, things you'd only know looking at a wiki. If I could I'd bring my phone with me for sure, loading with Elder Scrolls information.

[primal olive]

well
do you become part of the godheads dream or will it reject you, or merely copy you when you enter it

if you become part, can you achieve CHIM off the bat?

[sharp tulip]

I'd be scared that Akatosh would be wise to me not belonging there and saying things that I should not know and would erase me from time or something.
The gods kind of protect Nirn against things that shouldn't be there. I certainly shouldn't be there lol.

[pulsar root]

Magical means of not aging(as in its not forbidden magic, different from Liches or necromancy). Or even(Sorry I got distracted)

[primal olive]

oh yeah Telvanni use that form of magic commonly

[sharp tulip]

Can anyone else learn it? Or does it take you to be as long lived as a dunmer to have enough time to unlock it? Like you need to live that long to constantly be improving your magic to the point you are able to.
I don't know of any non-elf characters in the game ever having lived as long as someone like Neloth has unless they were a lich.
And I'd rather not be a lich because you lose yourself entirely, plus you look really gross.

[sharp tulip]

I guess honestly, everything is possible. Each new game, more powerful enemies, allies and beasts are revealed, and more cool things are shown.
If Bethesda adds it, it's possible, and there doesn't seem to be much they wouldn't be willing to have in the game.

[primal olive]

magic isn't usually locked to a single race

[sharp tulip]

I mean the specific longevity enhancing magic. There are lore pieces in the games about non-elves trying to enhance their lifespan and they either give up or turn to necromancy or die trying to find something.

[primal olive]

personally I just want Bethesda do give us more diverse weapons

not the simplified "system" Skyrim had

[sharp tulip]

I want a living weapon that talks to me like that one in Borderlands or some other games.

It would be cool to have a bloodthirsty talking sword.
"Blood... BLOOD! Yes! Kill! Kill them all!"
"...it's been a while since I've tasted blood. Have you forgotten me?"
"That one died too quick! Another!"

Or a funnier one, one that hates killing.
"Not again! Do this one quickly..."
"Do we have to kill them?"
"Can't we just talk about this instead?"

[primal olive]

the bane

[feral viper]

Well. Sinners was fantastic.

[feral viper]

Anyway, to the point.

Skyrim's system was actually less simplified than Oblivion's, and Morrowind's technically.

They just didn't do enough to really show off its complexity

[primal olive]

fair

[glass marlin]

"What is better: to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

[pulsar root]

"I rather be a good person and not worry about being evil regardless of nature or not Partuunax"

I see what he's saying but... I don't wanna be evil..or bad rather.

[primal olive]

I'd rather have the free will to choose for myself and still be good

which lines up with choosing to be good even though he was evil once

[nimble pond]

Why be good or evil when you can be...
https://imgur.com/oh-groovy-baby-jobCE90

[nimble pond]

I can picture a dagger that talks like Dr. Richtofen, stabby stab stab

[inner sierra]

This is how I start a Sunday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EgjImln4_w&pp=ygUgb2JsaXZpb24gcmVtYXN0ZXJlZCBmdWxsIG9zdCBuZXc%3D

[primal olive]

thinking about spears and snow elf stuff

[jade plover]

if anyone can match the power of an artifact then its not an artifact but just a usual thing

[nimble pond]

Idk, I think who it belonged to before makes it pretty unique and it could be considered the first of it's kind before it's enchantment is later learned. I like the archeological aspect. I mean there are other reasons to consider why it is unique besides just it's power

But right now, I just want to use necromancy to be able to custom create our own permanent undead follower just how we want them to look and their stats! Or at least allow us to customize followers in the same way we got to re-customize ourselves in Riften.

[feral viper]

We have very different definitions of Artifacts then

[sharp tulip]

Think they'll ever add new daedric artifacts? Ones we can actually use?
We've kinda just had the same ones over and over again.

[twin lagoon]

Out of all of the Elder Scrolls games Morrowind definitely had the best waiting system because it was instant. I don't know why they introduced making you wait 24 seconds for 24 hours in Oblivion and then kept that system

[nimble pond]

Perhaps they could -slightly- vary and change over each new title based on the province and new game mechanics that are introduced. Sort of adaptive.

[zenith remnant]

The daedra are clearly able of having more than one artifact, so I'm sure they can add some new ones

[nimble pond]

Ngl, I like the instant wait as well

[nimble pond]

Like what? Interested to see your idea of a new Daedric artifact.

[zenith remnant]

Well I've never thought about it much. Perhaps they could add a Tome that you get from a particular prince which teaches you a unique spell

[nimble pond]

Ohh, what would the spell do?

Daedric mage/magic skill tree? Hmm

Might confuse Conjuration though, since the summon weapon spells look Daedric

I think there are some Daedra-summoning spells in there too

[zenith remnant]

Indeed. It wouldn't need to he a whole new skill line

[sharp tulip]

I kinda just want some brand new ones. I've played with them all many times now and they just keep putting the same ones in new games.
I think the only new one Skyrim got was the Oghma Infinium, which is incredibly boring and just boosts some stats.
I wouldn't mind some Aedra artifacts as well, because those DO exist. The Brush of Truepaint in Oblivion is one such Aedra artifact.

[nimble pond]

Well then, back to it. What kinda spell would you make it?

[primal olive]

ESO already shows they have more artifacts: see the 3 used during the Gold Road expansion

[zenith remnant]

Well, perhaps you could add some spells inspired by Mora. Abyssal destruction spells perhaps

[nimble pond]

It's a "Daedric" tradition.. 🤠 lol

[nimble pond]

Well, take your chances and roll em through the pack-a-punch machine LOL

[primal olive]

I do hope we get less Hermaeus Mora content in 6, I'm burnt out on him

[sharp tulip]

What I don't understand is why does Boethiah have Goldbrand?
It was made with Boethiah's power, but was forged by ancient dragons to give to a knight who was sworn to protect them.

Why does Boethiah keep getting it and giving it to people for killing? Boethiah didn't make it.

[primal olive]

"It was made with Boethiah's power" she probably has some influence over it
also it was made for an underdog to fight mor powerful beings? this fits her sphere

[nimble pond]

I've always wanted Aedric weapons and armor though. Sorta as a polar opposite of Daedric gear. Blue & white instead of Red & Black.

[sharp tulip]

I guess the Crusader's Relics are aedra artifacts, but I hate how they're implemented.

[zenith remnant]

Volendrung wasn't made by malacath

[primal olive]

Auri-El's Bow, and Shield: (they were made by Anui-El

[sharp tulip]

That too! And yet he has full control over it.

[zenith remnant]

Maybe they can simply lay claim to certain artifacts

[primal olive]

The scorned god takes the hammer of scorned dwemer /j

[sharp tulip]

I'm really not a fan of that creation club dlc to get Goldbrand in Skyrim. They even have the whole thing of the knight who used it to protect dragons, and that's where you retrieve it from...
And then you use it to kill dragons, which grossly goes against what it was created for, the polar opposite.

[zenith remnant]

The oghma infinium wasn't written by Mora

[primal olive]

yes, it was written by Xarxes or whatever the name of Auri-El's scribe fella right? or did he write the Mysterium Xarxes and his wife was Oghma

[zenith remnant]

But It certainly lies under his sphere

[zenith remnant]

Indeed

[nimble pond]

We got a bunch of powers/spells from Mora in Skyrim Dragonborn DLC I think

[sharp tulip]

Gonna be honest I wasn't a big fan of the Dragonborn dlc conclusion.

[zenith remnant]

Powers, yes. Not sure about spells though

I'm always down for more magic in any capacity though

[primal olive]

"kill guy be my servant mwahahhah" "yes" or "no"

[glass marlin]

Still got a headcanon that Miraak sucked as a Dragonborn because he relied on Mora.

[primal olive]

A Telvanni that wants more power?

[sharp tulip]

Here's this powerful Dragonborn, immensely strong, puts you down no matter what deeds you've accomplished because he's so much better, Shouts you've never heard of...
He's literally just a dumb puppet for Mora and has no real free will at all. You only beat him because Mora was done playing with him and wanted you to kill him. I also feel bad for those two dragons he commanded. I wish we could have beaten Miraak and then gotten them for ourself instead.

I also just don't really like Mora at all. He's one of the nastier Daedric Princes. His whole thing is he tempts mortals to seek knowledge, and when they are tempted he traps them for all eternity in his labyrinth, eternally seeking knowledge they will NEVER find until they go insane and turn into Seekers I assume.

[zenith remnant]

Big surprise, I know

[zenith remnant]

Frankly, it concluded exactly how I expected it to

[pulsar root]

Nah. It was just a slightly different version of Shivering Isles.

[primal olive]

hot take but I don't care about Shivering Isles

and Sheogorath and Hermaeus Mora aren't that cool

[zenith remnant]

I don't really think they're that comparable. Besides the fact that they deal with Daedric princes

[pulsar root]

You basically lose your agency afterwards. in Dragonborne you just end up serving a Daedric prince. Oblivion you BECOME the daedric prince of madness.

Not hard to connect the dots.

[sharp tulip]

I loved seeing all the Morrowind stuff. That's all I liked about the Dragonborn DLC. The nostalgia.
Though seeing Bonemold armor reduced to just "heavy armor" and remembering the removal of medium armor hurt a little.

[zenith remnant]

Eh. It's a little different

You aren't mora's slave by the end of it

Ultimately, Akatosh probably lays claim to our soul

[pulsar root]

He calls you his champion. Kinda hard to not think thats how it ends.

[nimble pond]

Feels like a Randy and Mr. Lahey relationship

[zenith remnant]

You become the champion of several daedric princes in skyrim, so hard to say

[pulsar root]

Some of those you have to actively go out of your way. This is the MQ of a DLC we're talking about.

[primal olive]

you're only Mora's slave if you choose to be, as Prisoners aren't bound by fate

[zenith remnant]

Do all Vampires go to coldharbor?

[zenith remnant]

Indeed, indeed

[pulsar root]

That implies everyone else has a set destination.

[primal olive]

correct

bruh what did I say that triggered censor butt 9000 lol

a key part of what allows for mortals to achieve CHIM is that they're not limited or b"ound to anything in the way daedra, aedra are

test was it bound that set it off

[tight charm]

They do, actually.

Well, sort of.

Everyone in the Mundus has a nature. While it is possible to walk Many Paths, an individual's nature remains a constant.

"We are, all of us, bound by our natures. Your nature demands victory."

[pulsar root]

I get it but I think its far simpler to say yes free will exists(Godly cosmic beings not withstanding)

[tight charm]

I think "free will" depends on your perspective (in Tamriel).

"Indeed. But such questions are flaccid—cursory indulgences that come and go in an instant. The truth is that my actions, both good and evil, are inevitable. Locked in time. Determined by chains of action and consequence."

[feral viper]

Except, it doesn't, regardless of what they say. Because the Many Paths destroys the idea of free will.

You can't have free will, and a the sort of 'every possibility' outcomes that the Many Paths expresses, within the same system.

They are mutually exclusive concepts.

[glass marlin]

I've learned to hate that lore.

[feral viper]

The Ithelia nonsense is why I left every lore community I was in.

It very quickly became like listening to people trying to argue for Objective Morality, and I just realised that people enjoy the illogical nonsense, no matter how little sense it makes.

[nimble pond]

Very true

[feral viper]

And yes, I do mean illogical. Logic has very structured rules, it's not a 'does this explanation make sense to you?' sort of thing..

You cannot have a statement that is both true and false at the same time, for instance.

[nimble pond]

Who says? 🙃

[feral viper]

Logic says.

[nimble pond]

Logic doesn't exist here 😋

[feral viper]

And as far as we can tell, the laws of logic are one of the only things we can be sure of.

[nimble pond]

In fact, here logic is known as cheese! By definition

[nimble pond]

Are we sure that we're sure, what is it we're sure.. of? But it says so? Then it is so? And if it is so? ..So it is?

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-swanson-parks-and-rec-annoyed-gif-21561340

[nimble pond]

That's a big smile!

[primal olive]

there is a god about logic

[pulsar root]

The Free will related stuff?

[modest narwhal]

what time does ESO usually update?

[primal olive]

it tells you in game

[jade plover]

Summon a unique daedra

[glass marlin]

More the lore revolving around the forgotten Daedric Prince, and how poorly she was executed/removed.

[primal olive]

||"we sent her to a place without Magicka"|| (DLC ending spoiler be warned) that did feel a bit cheesy tbh

[long granite]

How would a connection to a realm without magic even be possible? Surely magicka is required on the receiving end for an exit portal to be possible.

[dim reef]

Y'all think they'll drop any news about ES6 on the Xbox showcase?
It's been 2 years since the game entered early dev

[nimble pond]

30 secs or less of trees

[nimble pond]

Yea but the bigger question, who rules such a place? Who else is there? I doubt it's just Ithelia. It sounds like Hell for Daedra or something

[feral viper]

It's functional, as it would basically just be a timeline where Magnus didn't flee.

But Ithelia has deeper conceptual issues that undermine both her expansion, and the setting as a whole.

[tight charm]

ESO was kind of teasing the buildup throughout the entire game though, as we learn about the Many Paths slowly until she shows up. I agree that Ithelia has some conceptual issues, but I don’t think it completely undermines the setting. Ithelia talks about how every instance of a person in the Many Paths is like a cracked mirror: ultimately still a reflection of the individual but distorted.

"Each reality bound by the Many Paths contains a version of an entity, mortal or Daedra. They each differ in some way, but each springs from the same seed. I am no different. She and I are the same, but distorted, like an image in a cracked mirror."

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. And it was the solidification of the Many Paths and what they represent that is the problem.

Because the Ithelia story was predicted on the nature of free will.

Then explaining how the Many Paths worked, erased the possibility of Free Will.

And this showed that Free Will cannot exist in the setting, and the writers don't actually understand the philosophical concepts they're playing with.

[tight charm]

Free Will certainly exists within the setting. The Many Paths is little more than the theory that each action creates a new string in the timeline. The individuals we encounter in the Path we play in still freely made those decisions, as did their counterparts in other Paths. The Many Paths is pretty much the Everett interpretation.

The core problem with how the Many Paths was handled is how they connected it to Oblivion and Ithelia specifically. The concept of a Prince of Paths is perfectly reasonable and actually quite interesting, but the way they executed her involvement with the Many Paths was mediocre at best and downright nonsensical at worst.

[primal olive]

why did they reorder the chat

[feral viper]

No, Free Will CAN'T. Because if every possible outcome spawns a different path, and those paths are in fact actualized, then no choice was actually made.

Choice and individual agency requires fewer actual outcomes that potential ones.

All you do is create Determinism with more steps. Which is definitionally not Free Will

[stark flower]

Someone requested this in the Discord suggestions channel. They said it was too hard to find and I didn't see any issue with moving it. Sorry for disorienting anyone.

[primal olive]

no worries it's funny lol I can see the convenience of it as well

[feral viper]

I can definitely see the logic behind having it at the top.

[primal olive]

the only disorienting thing about it is lore still being at the bottom for me tbh

[tight charm]

I disagree with this interpretation of the Many Paths, personally. I certainly see your perspective and can understand why you think the way you do though.

[feral viper]

Where it belongs.

Personally, I think the ambiguous lore from Shadowkey offered far better grounding for a concept, playing into Quantum Uncertainty.

But most people don't understand quantum uncertainty, and lean into the alternate timelines stuff instead.

[tight charm]

To be fair, Shadowkey really only introduced the idea to justify multiplayer from an lore perspective.

[primal olive]

hot take time
they should add guar to Morrowind

[feral viper]

Absolutely, but it was an interesting concept that could have been explored. Forcing potential other outcomes into actualized outcomes as a way of warping causal reality.

Instead, they just went with bog standard, comic book Multiverse.

As the illustrious Captain Boimler said...

The Multiverse sucks!

[tight charm]

Fair enough. I disagree, and I'll leave it at that. We're not going to go anywhere. 😂

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/what's-that-ensign-brad-boimler-star-trek-lower-decks-what-happened-what's-going-on-gif-17398846071615411911

That wasn't specific to you, I was looking for a Boimler face that summarized my stance on Multiverses.

At least, Alternate Timeline Multiverses. Planar Multiverses are a whole other thing which I actually quite enjoy. Even though Daedric Planes have been woefully wasted in TES.

[primal olive]

infinitely large realms!

[feral viper]

Not only that, but WEIRD realms. Like, Shivering Isles could have been an MC Escher painting. Coldharbour could have been a twister perversion of Tamriel. The Deadlands could have been raging natural disasters.

Instead, we got... Bland swamp with really poorly aged takes on mental illness. Hell. Other kind of hell.

Apocrypha wasn't BAD. It was just also not great. But it was probably the best Daedric Plane we've seen

[primal olive]

I like how unique the Dunmer look compared to Drow after learning more about them

they feel more unique

[primal olive]

blue rock world is such an ugly look for coldharbour

I hope they don't humanify moonshadow, I want it to feel alien and weird as described in books, to feel like how Altmer cities were described

[feral viper]

As far as I'm concerned, they're the only culture Bethesda put effort into to make distinct.

Now, ESO did put effort in elsewhere as well. The Argonians and Khajiit especially.

And, despite how much I hate what they did, they did do a lot for the Bosmer. I just think it's basically all bad.

[primal olive]

"humanify" as in making Altmer architecture more like European Gothic for example

[feral viper]

That isn't fair to Gothic Architecture.

[primal olive]

true

personally I want a restart of everything at some point

a more modern redesign of stuff with influence from written lore to make things more complex

(I really want Aldmeris, Ayleidoon, and Falmeris to be more fleshed out)

that and I want more living Falmer /j

[feral viper]

The Altmer architecture is a particular sore spot for me, because it's just... Eh?

It's so generic and bland that it doesn't really speak to anything. It's not elegant and impressive enough to speak to skill, it's not ostentatious enough to speak to ego, and it's not sterile enough to speak to a sort of clinical social order.

It's just boring, generic Fantasy Medieval and doesn't inspire any indication of the people it's supposed to represent. You could literally plop it in any fantasy setting and no one would be able to tell the difference.

While I think the Bosmer stuff is offensively bad, I think the Altmer stuff is just offensively boring.

[livid ingot]

We moved

[primal olive]

it feels like Warhammer elven marble a little

[feral viper]

And I don't mean that in the current social trend of using the word offense. I mean that in the more clinical and technical way.

[primal olive]

but Falmeric Architecture also drew from that, and yet it feels more unique than what Altmer architecture we see personally

[feral viper]

Anyway, back to work.

[cobalt stump]

Doin the battle of windhelm right now on my ultra modded skyrim and in the middle of it at leat two, possibly three dragons just showed up o,o

[feral viper]

You know... Hundreds of hours in Skyrim, and I have never once had a dragon attack a city.

The town's, yes. But a city? Never happened.

[zenith remnant]

I had one in whiterun. Only time it ever happened

[glass marlin]

I just had one in Whiterun. There were casualties.

[zenith remnant]

Always hated the dragon attacks for that

Very inconvenient

[pulsar root]

Its happened in the city for me. Obnoxious though that might be a mod issue.

[nimble pond]

Was also in Whiterun for me. Suffered one tragic casualty, Nazeem.

[blazing rock]

First time I played Skyrim had it where Falkreath had a dragon attack every time I traveled there.

Overtime, there was hardly anyone left.

[tight charm]

I've had a dragon attack Riften many, many times.

[sacred osprey]

I had a legendary dragon with a turbo grudge against Solitude specifically

Bro would fly in, kill 1-3 people, then dip out before I could finish the fight.

[patent jolt]

the ESO promo art is so misleading, the game is nothing like that

[sacred osprey]

Always has been this way

[patent jolt]

did you see the latest for the season pass?

[austere oasis]

There's a dragon burial nearby it'll always happen eventually

[fallen hatch]

why this server so dead

[sacred osprey]

I mean what is there to talk about tbh

[fallen hatch]

how nords stank

[sacred osprey]

We've had that discussion before... 100s of times

There's nothing else to be talked about 😔

[fallen hatch]

[jade plover]

There are too many videos on yt where people talk about tes vi reveal on show case

I doubt they will show anything, game is too far from being ready

What do you guys think?

[primal olive]

I think it'll be fin

[zenith remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/black-stare-nah-wyd-eye-gif-23953713

[primal olive]

fun fact the stench of a Nord is what actually drove the Falmer underground

[zenith remnant]

They didn't seem to mind it when they raided Saarthal. Very interesting!

[fallen hatch]

😭😭😭😭

[sacred osprey]

Actually they did, it was so pungent that it was the reason why they sacked it. They had to remove their noses just to make it possible

[zenith remnant]

Ah, well I'm glad it all worked out for them in the end

[keen crater]

Over a month and still no news on a patch. Can any of the bethesda mods in here give any kind of update whatsoever??

[feral viper]

Meanwhile, the Falmer attacking Sarthaal:

https://tenor.com/view/krieg-death-korps-of-gasmask-gif-12718957954252827975

[sacred osprey]

You're just gonna get the same exact response like the 100s of others asking - it'll be in #elder-scrolls-announcements when there's news/updates.

Allegedly they are actually working on a patch. All we can do is wait, and considering how long the wait between patches for Starfield is we're gonna be waiting a while lol

[junior ruin]

Nah sorry. Come back in another month

[fallen hatch]

boom shakalaka boom shakalaka boom boom

[midnight stag]

Es6 news has been very quiet lately it’s suspicious I wonder what they’re hiding

[violet fjord]

checked the rules to make sure and can't find anything, but it's fine to @ a community manager no?

[fallen hatch]

why are dunmer so rude in morrowind

[violet fjord]

@gloomy anchor

[gloomy anchor]

The people in green? Sure but just do not @ everyone. They also may not respond if they are busy

[violet fjord]

gotcha, just wondering if @sand charm is the elder scrolls legends guy from back in tha day, if so absolutely glorious times then and great vids 🥲

[feral viper]

Because you're an outlander in their lands, an an agent of the foreign occupier.

[fallen hatch]

why do they call me an outsider my character is a dunmer

[feral viper]

Because you're an outlander. Just because you're Dunmer doesn't mean you're Velothi.

You were born in Cyrodiil, and it's your first time in Morrowind. They can smell the foreign influence on you and hear it in your accent.

Which is sort of why phenotypical identifiers for race and ethnic group are so disastrously pathetic a system of people grouping

[gloomy anchor]

Please do not compare to real life situations or politics

[radiant moss]

Also serves the story quite nicely; the Nerevarine being an outlander in a sort of "return-to-home" way is neat, and encourages distrust in the Great Houses.

[feral viper]

There's also a sort of thematic full circle for it too, as the Velothi were themselves outlanders at one point. The came from elsewhere, and made Morrowind their home.

And so too is it another Outlander who comes to restore that home. Just like Veloth and his people in the first place.

[fallen hatch]

Bethesda logo looks like the Roblox logo I'm ngl

[dim reef]

whens the new skyrim coming out

[amber lagoon]

are ryou a national socialist cuz i dont vibe with that

skyriom electric bolt

[wide garnet]

You mean Skywind, Skyblivion, or maybe Beyond Skyrim?

[wide garnet]

Who? Me?

[amber lagoon]

yess brother

[wide garnet]

I don’t really consider myself a national socialist. Actually, I don’t really consider myself anything.

[amber lagoon]

are u centrist

[wide garnet]

Dunno.

[dim reef]

no the new one of the skyrim games

[primal olive]

Skyrim already came out, if you mean the franchise it has a name

[dim reef]

no i mean skyrim

[primal olive]

then don't expect anything or already came out multiple times and they're probably workingon 6

[dim reef]

SKyrim 2 boy i know skyrim came out already i want a new one

[primal olive]

if another game plays in Skyrim it won't be Skyrim

[amber lagoon]

skyrim 2 for money

[timid drum]

Get a bunch of mods to completely change the game, problem solved

[north mountain]

Is there a separate eso bethesda discord server?

[stark flower]

There is, but it is basically read only. https://discord.gg/Avv95cjy

There is a Forums as well, but you will need to submit a ticket for the invitation to be part of discussion. Here is the forums link, and here is a link for requesting an invitation.

[primal olive]

if you want ESO players I reccomend looking in ESO guild servers from in game, YouTubers like Skinny Cheeks, or the ESO subreddit

[feral viper]

Most people who use that term don't actually know what it means ideologically anyway. I would be immensely surprised if anyone here actually fit into that.

And it's really weird that anyone would even ask.

Though I'll admit, the use of single letter substitutes for words confuses me even more.

There's not a byte shortage. You can type out the whole world, it won't crash the internet.

Also, and this is a long standing grievance.

Americans. You can add the U back into words like Colour and Neighbour. It's ok, you aren't paying for ink by the letter anymore.

[amber lagoon]

u called me weird

[amber lagoon]

are u english

[feral viper]

Canadian.

[amber lagoon]

same thing really

[feral viper]

We still spell things correctly.

[amber lagoon]

yep same brodie

[feral viper]

Except for Quebec. I have no idea what a potat is, but it's certainly not a pomme de terre

[amber lagoon]

yep wipe that place off tha map

u shud watch willhelm apologist on youtube u wud like it bro

[dim reef]

i am not ai

[feral viper]

Anyone with the name Apologist in it churns my stomach, so I suspect I will pass.

[amber lagoon]

nope its irony

[feral viper]

I may give it a check then. We shall see.

[dim reef]

Broadcast is a multiplayer map featured in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Remastered which is included in the Variety Map Pack. The map is based on the TV station in Charlie Don't Surf, with some differences to support multiplayer modes. Broadcast is also available in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, where it was added as part of the Season Six update.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/sass-ron-swanson-parks-and-rec-dont-sass-me-gif-14778028

[neat prairie]

Did any of you here about Renée Victor (The Voice of The Female Argonians in Skyrim and Female Khajiit in the Oblivion Remaster) passing away?

[nimble pond]

Perhaps they'll give her a proper gravestone in TESVI.

[zenith remnant]

Because it's a rough land

[fallen hatch]

can you help me out w openmw?

[zenith remnant]

What about it?

[fallen hatch]

it keeps giving me the pop up that it has frozen and needs to be aborted but the game isn't actually frozen and it's really annoying because it keeps coming up every 2 seconds

[zenith remnant]

This hasn't happened to me, so I'm not sure. I'll see if I can find something online

[fallen hatch]

i only have this issue w 0.49 and 0.48 idk why 0.47 works fine

[plucky topaz]

Bruh, what if we get something on TES 6 at the show case?

[sacred osprey]

We ain't

[plucky topaz]

Well damn.

[sacred osprey]

Luck stat isn't high enough

[plucky topaz]

Time to retreat

[thick heron]

Lmao

When is the showcase?

[plucky topaz]

The 9th of this month.

[thick heron]

Oh okay

[primal olive]

calling it now we'll see games at the showcase

[thick heron]

You guys hear about John Elder Scroll?

[nimble pond]

What snowcase?

[primal olive]

showcase*

[sacred osprey]

What do I get if I win and it doesn't happen

In fact, I wager 30 septims it doesn't happen

[primal olive]

a kiss from hermaeus mora

[sacred osprey]

E v e n b e t t e r

[slow loom]

TES6 will probably look like a joke compared to Witcher 4

[crude solstice]

Show a little faith

[fallen hatch]

don't care, both of them won't run on my laptop anyways 💔

[slow loom]

TES6 trailer came out 6 years ago now and it was just an empty field.

[crude solstice]

Came out when I graduated HS 💀💀

[slow loom]

I'm just not going to give undue hype anymore

[crude solstice]

Def understandable

Trying to be optimistic but I get it

[slow loom]

They can't even remaster their own properties. You lose/fire a lot of talent when you only rerelease Skyrim for 10 years.

[primal olive]

I will mantle Bethesda and create the next game

[fallen hatch]

john bethesda

[slow loom]

The TES6 trailer music doesnt even sound right.

Imagine for a second that CDPR made the next TES game

[dim reef]

The Oblivion remaster was made by both Bethesda and Virtuous

And you're seriously undermining how good the visuals on the new Creation Engine 2 can look

[slow loom]

Good graphics do not a good game make.

[dim reef]

I didn't say that. I said you're seriously undermining how good CE2 can look

[slow loom]

I didn't say anything about graphics you did?

[dim reef]

.

[slow loom]

I wasn't referring to graphics.

[crimson edge]

Even discounting graphics, why are you comparing the two games?

They are fundamentally different genres of RPGs with different focus. There are going to look awful when compared to each other no matter how you look at it.

[dim reef]

Nah nah. Wait. I want to hear this.
If not graphics what were you comparing

Gameplay? Quest design? Writing?
Neither of which we have any idea about

Also speaking of the music. The teaser music was done by Inon Zur instead of Soule which is likely why it sounds a bit different

[slow loom]

I agree the creation engine 2 graphics look good.

[sacred osprey]

The quality of CDPR games (post launch lol) seem to be going upward while Bethesda games are tanking in quality overall.

I don't think there was any specified comparison. Just a guess at the quality of two future titles based on previous entries.

[sacred osprey]

It'll be broken so much more* than Oblivion Remastered for about 3-6 months then it'll be a 10/10 💯

[dim reef]

Bethesda turned around Fallout 76, a game that had one of THE worst launches in video game history into a successful game.

Their record for turning things around definitely isn't bad

[primal olive]

Bethesda is really good at making garbage into insanely good games tbh

this isn't my actual opinion btw

[sacred osprey]

•Oblivion & Skyrim arguably babied down its deep RPG identity to the point of it being a simple action fantasy game.

•Fallout 4's dialogue options and consequences feel like a huge downgrade compared to Fallout 3. Not mentioning NV because that was Obsidian.

•Starfield (I like the game but damn...)

I would be here for all of eternity if I wanted to deep dive into this, but as great as all these games are (imo) we can't just deny the loss of quality with every entry.

[primal olive]

(I love Bethesda games :3)

[slow loom]

CDPR are masters of their craft even if they had a couple of misses. Fallout 4's shooting was only good because id Software helped them. Bethesda are usually good at making interesting worlds and suck at mechanics. 76 was a disaster at launch and its still buggy but better only thanks to it having live service money.

[sacred osprey]

It's reasonably to worry or make negative assumptions about TES6 when we haven't been given anything that would give us hope for the long run.

I mean just look at Oblivion Remastered. Now for me, the game is near flawless aside from crashing and stutters, but for some it's straight unplayable. With a whole month of radio silence, it's hard to give more good will when we don't even have something like a "hey we're halfway there on patches"

[primal olive]

personally I would like the next game to have:
• More complex lore like Morrowind
• More races, even if it's just 1 like Maormer
• Skyrim's more improved dialogue that oblivion and Morrowind lack
• more complex animations and weapons, not just 1h/2h/bow/magic
• more customization like starfield

[dim reef]

I can't speak on ES as i have less experience with them.

Fallout 4's only flaw was it's dialogue system. It's level up system is no less-rpg than prior games.
Heck, I'll say it's an objectively better level up system than the prior games.

In fact with Far Harbor they listened to all the feedback and the dialogue system is far better utilized there.

Fallout 76 further improved on it by bringing back normal dialogues, skill checks, more perks etc.

[sacred osprey]

Yes, especially for the magic system. I actually love Morrowind's complex magic and would die of joy if it came back 🙏

[primal olive]

I personally prefer Oblivion Remake's levelling system the best, but Morrowind is fine too, just not the Magicka/Health/Stamina(carryweight)

[dim reef]

The thing about Bethesda is they listen to feedback.

They may not always succeed in responding well but they try.

Far Harbor, Fallout 76's expansions.
All of it was in direct response to player feedback

[primal olive]

me when spells aren't just all shooty ones: <3 (I love you on touch spells)

[primal olive]

I love Bethesda they're my favorite company because they feel like real people making stuff they like, it's why even with the flaws the games might have it still feels like people made it to me

they feel like nerds /positive

[slow loom]

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves"

[primal olive]

what are you even talking about

[dim reef]

Oh one more thing.

Fallout 4 actually had different questlines for factions.

In NV it's mostly the same chain of quests done in a different order.
Omertas > BoS > Khans > House > Dam.

4 had completely different questlines for the different factions with one key meeting point.
BoS builds Liberty Prime.
Institute sets up their reactor.
MM gather settlements.
RR goes undercover with the Institute.

And the final mission can take place on either the Prydwen or the Institute

[slow loom]

Dont worry its above your pay grade.

[primal olive]

it's just religious garbage man

[sacred osprey]

Oh shoot forgot to acknowledge, yes Fallout 76 made a huge turn around and the moment they cooked with adding in NPCs and settlements I was hooked. I just wish that much effort was in their other recent titles.

For Fallout 4, I could think of other issues aside from dialogue. Weapon designs and balancing were generally terrible and immersion breaking. The lack of weapon variety for playstyles like unarmed hurts my soul.

Them breaking all the mods years later while adding nothing of substance with a 'next gen update' is a big one

[primal olive]

melee feels so awful in 4 icl

not using power armor or vats? haha get stunned by enemies every hit

[sacred osprey]

Funnily enough, Unarmed specifically in Fallout 4 was probably the best Bethesda has ever done. Albeit only if you're not using power armor and/or weapons that aren't knuckles.

[slow loom]

It means don't trust what is publicly shown.

[primal olive]

there you go thank you
I think there's certainly to be issues behind the scenes but this happens everywhere and it's best not to think about it tbh

[sacred osprey]

I wish it was like that in every game, TES included. The unique animations like being able to weave hits while jabbing and launching people into a wall with a knee. Both sorely missed

[dim reef]

Disagree.
I love Fallout 4's weapon designs.

Thank god the AR selection isn't just generic AR15s like NV.

Balancing was awkward in NV as well especially in mid game where hit squads can instantly get you high quality goods to either sell or keep.

Most mods have been fixed and the SE updated. Any update will break that, it's just how the Script Extender works.
In fact it worked way better than Skyrim's update which still hasn't been fully fixed while most of FO4's mods have been updated

[primal olive]

melee needs to be more like vermintide imo

daggers have an attack style, swords, greatsword, Warhammers, like that

[sacred osprey]

For me, I have, to an extent, believe a gun would function and put out what the stats say and vice versa. 4 doesn't do this whatsoever. A big mounted minigun should not be doing 8 damage and running on a mythical 5mm for example.

As for NV, I leave it out only because it's Obsidian's work but I'll be 100% aside from dated gunplay that couldn't be helped for its time the balancing was just better & the melee/unarmed weaponry was fantastic

Mods are a separate discussion I feel like. Just because you can do just about anything with them, and in a lot of cases mods fix all my complaints with every single game.

[dim reef]

The Minigun had to be nerfed for that stupid intro sadly.
Still, can't really say the Minigun was ever good before either. Even in 76 it's still terrible

I can't agree on that. Both 4 and NV are pretty even on balance. Some parts are poorly balanced while others are well balanced

[slow loom]

NV didnt really have balance as far as im aware. It was just heres a tough area and heres an easy area. Fallout 4 was level based balancing.

[dim reef]

Heck there's a whole dlc that can completely break the economy

[sacred osprey]

To an extent true, but I feel the balancing issues with both games are drastically different. So I'll grant it only because we're turning it into Fallout chat lmao

Just to sorta wrap it back around to TES and expectations for TES6. All I'm saying is that it's understandable that people don't have their hopes up and/or they are negative about it.

[dim reef]

I can understand that. I am personally at a 50/50 impasse.
I have hope they'll do better but they also may screw up

I am excited to hear more of the music tbf.
If Zur is really doing the whole ost this time, it's going to be interesting to see how he does

[sacred osprey]

I just think no matter what happens they need to hurry up because my life is only getting shorter 💀

[dim reef]

I also loved his work on Blades

[sacred osprey]

Honestly the score is the one thing I'm not worried about. I don't think music in any Bethesda game has ever missed

[dim reef]

Ik. It'll defo be good.
I'm just curious how different it'd be

[sacred osprey]

So long as it isn't overly different like Doom Dark Ages

Loved Dark Ages' soundtrack but it just doesn't hit me the same way the other games did.

[dim reef]

That's the funny thing.
For years some people have been saying Zur's work on Fallout sounds a bit like ES.
and now he may be doing a full blown ES game.
Funny how the tables may turn

[sacred osprey]

If the shoe fits

[slow loom]

I just feel like it will be more imitation than an evolution.

Starfields music had some very Fallout sounding tracks in it.

[dim reef]

Well. That's just how composers work.
Soule's work has also had plenty of similarities across Kotor 1 and Oblivion.

[slow loom]

I could be wrong of course and i hope i am for all our sakes.

[dim reef]

Hans Zimmer also has a very distinct sound that can be heard across most of his work

[sacred osprey]

What if, and hear me out, Hans Zimmer for TES6 soundtrack

Pffff I was about to mention him

[dim reef]

He's definitely capable of doing medieval music.
Would be interesting to have him do a ES score

[slow loom]

Love me some Hans Zimmer and Ramin Djawadi.

Hans Zimmer pumped hard when he worked on Crysis 2.

[dim reef]

I think he only did the main theme

[sacred osprey]

It was the main theme and I think 2 other tracks

[dim reef]

He also did Dragon Age Veilguard alongside Balfe.
Although I'm not sure how much he did himself, might be Balfe did most of it like the other game osts they did

[sacred osprey]

Wait speaking of, didn't Zur do work in Dragon Age too

[dim reef]

Yep. The first 2

He also did Crysis 1

[sacred osprey]

Ooh wait hold up

Zur's definitely gonna cook with the soundtrack for sure then

[dim reef]

He definitely has a solid resume.
Recently he also did Rise of Ronin

[sacred osprey]

I uh... Have not heard of Rise of Ronin

I need to go look that up here in a minute

[dim reef]

It was a decent enough game. Not the best but fun.
The music was really good in it

[sacred osprey]

I cannot for the life of me play games like Rise of Ronin without immediately going back to Sekiro

(watching gameplay rn and I just wanna go do another playthrough of Sekiro)

[slow loom]

I just bought Sekiro and intend to play it shortly after i finish with the Elden Ring dlc.

[sacred osprey]

I would play Elden Ring again if Nightreign didn't ruin it for me.

[slow loom]

Partially why im going through the dlc now so i can move on without being spoiled.

[dim reef]

Ah. Found the track i was looking for it.
This one's easily the best in the game. If the battle music in ES6 is as good as this, it'd be so good
https://youtu.be/Tg-SwwoT23o?si=EJk5GNWSmHo4_bgA

[sacred osprey]

The fact that I found out after I bought it that it wasn't crossplay and I couldn't play with my friends. I was already hating before I beat the first boss

[primal olive]

spears

[sacred osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-happy-dance-black-dance-get-it-gif-14992825767124506528

[midnight stag]

Is es6 actually realistically years away or was that just a baseless statement by Microsoft

[hollow wadi]

It's definitely years away, if I had to guess 2028 earliest

[midnight stag]

And is there a chance es6 will be at Xbox showcase next year

[hollow wadi]

Was 5 years between Fallout 76 and Starfield, another 5 between it and TESVI would be a safe bet

[hollow wadi]

Who knows, depends on if they want to do a short marketing cycle or not

Honestly I just want another teaser with a title and location reveal

[midnight stag]

There’s some talk saying that in Xbox showcase

Just talk

[hollow wadi]

Just wishful thinking honestly, happens every time

If it's real though then I hope it's in Elsweyr

[feral viper]

Assuming Bethesda has not entirely abandoned Starfield, I would expect a second DLC announcement before we see anything more regarding TES6

It would be poor marketing strategy to showcase a second product that directly competes with your first, either before or at the same time you're trying to market that first one.

So showcasing more about TES6 would negatively impact the marketing for any future Starfield DLCs, and just be actively shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't understand why people are in such a hurry to restart the Disappointment Train again anyway.

[midnight stag]

I think they’ll just support using cc content

[glass marlin]

Creation Club isn't a thing anymore. It's just "Creations."

[midnight stag]

Well yeah

[pulsar root]

Same thing

[glass marlin]

It's actually not. Creation Club was official content that Bethesda paid modders to make, while all the Verified Creations now are just Bethesda giving modders a stamp to allow it to be sold.

[midnight stag]

But yeah we haven’t really seen anything of second DLC for starfield so I seem to think that it’ll be in a form creations

[glass marlin]

Who knows?

It's still too soon to reveal an update on ES6 that much is sure.

[hasty zinc]

Just hope they nail that game and I think they will

[dim reef]

Iirc todd said the total dev time is usually about 3-4 years.
Starfield was supposed to come out much earlier but got pushed by Covid.

This game entered early dev 2 years ago, so realistically either next year or 2027 would be my bet

[glass marlin]

It's possible that Bethesda might want to push this off so it won't repeat Starfield's lackluster performance.

[dim reef]

Also this time around they won't have to work on making a new engine.
So i assume it'd take even less time

[glass marlin]

Starfield used the Creation engine as well.

[pulsar root]

The new engine you mean is still the Creation Engine, just even more modified then before.

[livid ingot]

Covid affected its release, but remember it was also delayed towards the end of its development too. It's been less than two years since Starfield's release. I'm confident of a 2027-2028 timeframe. 3 years for their next, highly anticipated title? Even with their much larger studio? I'm skeptical but hey, it could happen.

[hollow wadi]

2026 is way too soon, AAA games don't get made in just 3 years anymore sadly

They're also still working on expansions for Starfield, we'll probably get two more

And regardless they need to take their time and make the game something truly special to not do a repeat of Starfield's reception

[dim reef]

It's CE2. A much more upgraded version of CE1

[dim reef]

Yeah but remember Starfield was far more ambitious with it's content.
I doubt ES6 will have a 1000 planets

I'd say 4 years should be more than enough for a normal game.
2027 would be my bet unless another pandemic starts

[dim reef]

That's how a lot of custom engines work.
Valve's new Source 2 engine is also an upgraded version of Source 1

[feral viper]

Well, sorta yes sorta no.

It might as well be Creation 2, for all the changes they did to it but they didn't rename it.

And since the names and degree of change are basically arbitrary, it's both Creation and Creation 2 until marketing decides what to brand it as.

[feral viper]

Why would you think they would nail the game?

Bethesda has never, once, nailed a game. Expecting them to is setting yourself up for disappointment.

We have 30 years of releases to draw on at this point. Set those expectations based on that, not your personal hopes.

[dim reef]

That's... not how it works.

They're calling it CE2 because the upgrades are significant enough.

Otherwise they could've just called it CE1 same as any prior game

[feral viper]

Have they ever called it Creation 2? I've never actually seen that claim.

Everything I've seen, they just call it Creation.

Which was my whole point. The name is arbitrary. It's marketing branding not an actual representation of change.

The Creation that runs Starfield is significantly different from the Creation that ran Skyrim.

Eeeh... There's not actually any quote in there saying Creation Engine 2, that is injected by the article writer.

But I'll accept it.

Fair enough.

None of it actually counters my point though because I was agreeing with you in detail.

The name is ultimately irrelevant. It's the software that matters.

The engine that runs Starfield is no more the engine that ran Skyrim, than the engine that ran Skyrim is the engine that ran Oblivion.

What it's named doesn't really matter.

Already said fair enough.

I feel like my actual point is being entirely missed here.

[dim reef]

It is more though.
That's what i am saying, it is significantly different than they're calling it a new engine

Same way Valve's Source 2 is different in reference to Source 1

[dim reef]

I actually typed that out before i saw your whole reply so sorry about that

[feral viper]

Fair enough.

On the total flip side, you have Rockstar.

Bully was the first time they used RAGE. They also used RAGE for Red Dead 2.

Despite having the same name, there is virtually nothing in common on the back end between the engines of those two games.

The name it's self, either way, is just marketing talk to be catchy to consumers. It's not what's actually important.

[dim reef]

Yeah. Same goes for Apex Legends and Titanfall 2.
They say they use Source when it's heavily modified to the point it's by and large completely different

Sometimes their branding of engines is a bit wacky

[feral viper]

Indeed.

Though I do find it hilarious when people will accuse Bethesda of using the same engine since Morrowind (despite 4 seperate engine names) but not make the same accusation of Rockstar (despite using the same engine name).

Almost as if the layperson doesn't actually understand engines or something.

[dim reef]

Very true

[feral viper]

In any event, it's a safe bet that the engine that runs TES6 will not be exactly the same as the one that ran Starfield, regardless of what they name it.

It's just unclear HOW different it will actually be, under the hood.

[pulsar root]

[dim reef]

It'd be funny if the new game comes out with improvements which they just back port to Starfield and start selling it as a remaster.

Basically what they did with Skyrim after FO4 came out

[feral viper]

Hah, don't give Marketing ideas.

[dim reef]

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-bunny-looney-tunes-cash-money-counting-money-gif-9664215891247912715

[pulsar root]

Switch 2 Oblivion remaster is something I can see but thats it. Doubt any Skyrim rerelease until the next series of consoles.

[dim reef]

When FO5 comes out, they'll start remastering ES6

[feral viper]

Unless TES6 drops on current gen consoles. Then the first remaster will be for the next gen ones.

Won't even have to wait for the next game release for them to pull that

[nimble pond]

Starfield: now with water exploration!

[harsh crown]

Let's keep this channel for Elder Scrolls please

[tall spindle]

In the future, I want nightdive studios enhanced version (improve Gamebryo/ NetImmerse engine) The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind for PS4, Xbox One, Switch 1 and PC (via GOG & Steam)

[hollow wadi]

Nightdive would do an excellent job. A lot of people will be turned off by the combat though

[feral viper]

Ooh... They're doing SiN next...

But yeah, I think the actual mechanics of Morrowind would hurt it, even if it was visually remastered

[languid rose]

Seriously no fix for difficulty in this patch??

[fair chasm]

Just noticed the new beta patch notes mention the Shambles' animation bugs when casting but nothing about the Grummites that do the same thing. Are those gonna be fixed?