#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 28 of 1

pulsar root
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Ok. I was like 5 when it came out. More then doubles why I barely know it exists.

feral viper
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I missed Arena. Was too busy playing Warcraft in '94

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Daggerfall was my jam though. Loved that game. So much so, I initially hated Morrowind when it came out.

noble verge
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Umaril wasn't just a champion of Meridia, his father was a god from a previous kalpa.

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It also bears mentioning that Pelinal's armor and weapons were basically his kryptonite.

feral viper
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His Father was potentially from a previous Kalpa. But the whole Kalpa thing was a disjointed nonsense mess even when I cared about the lore, I can only imagine how much more nonsensical it's gotten in the last year.

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Even then, being the son of a god doesn't instantly make you more impressive. Especially not a deposed and unremembered god. If such is even possible within the nonsense of that depth of lore.

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I mean, hell, Umaril was defeated by Pelinal AFTER the latter had already been exhausted by slaughtering an army. The only reason he's even around in Knights of the Nine is because Meridian kept him in a pokeball for 4000 years.

tight charm
feral viper
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Also that yes.

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Considering the number of incorrect claims made by Oblivion Antagonists and their henchmen, there's reasonable ground to just dismiss it outright.

pulsar root
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There's that unreliable narrator again.

noble verge
# feral viper I mean, hell, Umaril was defeated by Pelinal AFTER the latter had already been e...

Defeated by a walking disaster zone whose previous rampages required divine intervention to stop, wearing armor and wielding weapons designed to weaken him.

But if we want to get into the past defeats of former antagonists, it also bears noting that ten years prior to the events of TES III, Almalexia and Sotha Sil were bested by a duo of Ash Vampires and needed to be rescued by Vivec, and he still couldn't manage to retrieve Kagrenac's Tools.

noble verge
feral viper
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Flubbed a line, for a character who is delusionally incorrect anyway. On in a game where another major henchman/representative of an antagonist literally tells you that you CANNOT win.

And that's not even touching on the minor quests and how many of them are either barely functional headcases or constantly acting on poor information.

The antagonists in Oblivion being wrong/delusional is kind of a theme.

noble verge
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And there's still a lot of truths and reveals that can be derived from the ramblings of the antagonists of both games.

feral viper
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Fair point.

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Oblivion's just an easy target, because it's antagonists are so paper thin and silly.

feral viper
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And yes, when I say silly, I'm looking square at the IMPOSTER using Mannimarco's name

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Though, of we're talking purely mechanics, I think Nerevsrine still gets it. He's the only one with access to a magical ring that makes it almost impossible to die.

livid ingot
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I mean, kalpas aren't that complex. The word and idea comes from the Dharmic religions. It's just the former incarnation of reality.

feral viper
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Yes, but that assumes that they work in that way in TES (which at this point, considering the bog standard basic Multiverse we're operating with, they could very well just be alternate realities at this point).

It also tells us nothing about how transitions work, how different Kalpas differ from one another, how they interact with the wider dimensions, etc.

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No consensus had been reached after more than a decade of discussion on the topic when Ithelia made me walk, and I doubt anything particularly exciting has come out on that front since.

tardy tiger
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The real Kalpas are just tectonic plates.

feral viper
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The real Kalpas are the friends we made carry our stuff.

pulsar root
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ES having a multiverse is..... I dunno bout that.

feral viper
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I mean, it always kinda did, in a D&D sense.

But Ithelia solidified it in Marvel or DC sense. Which is dumb.

errant stump
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Would ESOs protagonist be the strongest (I have not played near enough ESO to actually have an opinion)

raw bay
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Nice

simple iris
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Alright who would win in an all out brawl amongst major antagonists; Dagoth Ur, Mankar Camoran, and Alduin. If you want this fight to be even more grand, we can also throw in Mehrunes Dagon, Jyggalag, Umaril. Alduin, Almalexia, and Harkon.

livid ingot
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The whole concept of Shadow Magic is - well, have you ever seen Everything, Everywhere, All At Once? It's basically that. Empowering objects or yourself by acquiring properties they share in other, parallel worlds.

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As a shadow one can also visit (or be visited by) other worlds to aid or fight alternate versions of yourself.

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And this has been occasionally touched upon in later games, like in TES:IV in the Shivering Isles.

pulsar root
livid ingot
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Good! I'm never sure how many people have seen the film to know if it's a good point of reference

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I know a few other examples of this idea but I think they're more obscure

feral viper
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Eeeh, Shadowmagic WAS nebulous in Shadowkey. Could have been Multiverse (the route they took) or it could have been forced quantum actualization.

Unfortunately, they went with, IMO, the lazy route because it's in the pop-culture zeitgeist.

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In the process, rendering every character, every action, every choice, entirely irrelevant and obliterating the concept of free will in the setting.

Because whoever wrote it doesn't understand philosophy.

tawdry copper
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I found out dragon frogs are a thing, they're the defenition of perfection. I want one.

stray mountain
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Is there no ESO gen?

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I need friends to play ESO with tbh
I wanna have a Wizard Gang

naive bramble
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Got GTA 6 trailer 2 before more info about ES 6 lol

errant stump
livid ingot
# stray mountain Is there no ESO gen?

You're in the wrong place. This is the Bethesda Game Studios server. They support BGS games. ESO was made by Zenimax Online Studios. ZOS doesn't have a discord, so you need to go to their forums or go to an unofficial server where ESO players gather.

stray mountain
pastel plank
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Fix PS5 performance Bethesda!

celest jacinth
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Just a quick question. I seen a video of someone getting banned for t-bagging. Are we still allowed to t-bag NPC or is that off limits too? I have a bad habit of t-bagging dragons after I beat them that's why I'm asking

tight charm
celest jacinth
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They got banned from ESO for t-bagging another player

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I guess it is sexual harassment now

tight charm
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Oh, yes, if you continue to perform an action after being asked to stop, it is considered harassment, and you can be banned for it. Doing so to an NPC should be no problem.

stark flower
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Hey folks, we actually do not have an ESO channel here- as mentioned it is a Zenimax game without a Discord. You can find their forums here, and if you would like to post you would need to request an invitation to forums here.

stark flower
fading thistle
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Hello

feral viper
stark flower
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Sorry, too flashy.

old holly
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if they literally ported over all of the oblivion remastered graphics into the next game and just expanded on features i’d be so happy, this is like the perfect art style for this type of world imo

feral viper
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Oh boy, do we want radically different art styles.

pulsar root
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ES6 doesn't have to be on par with UE5. Have significant graphical improvements from Skyrim sure but it doesn't need to be cutting edge.

feral viper
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For me it's not graphical fidelity, it's art style.

I don't think there's a word that wouldn't be construed as bashing, which reflects my opinion of Oblivion's art style. And the Remaster is somehow even worse.

livid ingot
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I agree with art style being the most important. Every TES game has had its own style. It's a part of what makes each game unique.

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I'd be totally on board for a highly stylistic entry to the series.

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I do think that the art direction that the remastered version takes does lose a bit of the original's distinctiveness

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There are already mods restoring the saturation of colors for example.

pulsar root
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Skyrim IMO tended to lean towards a semi realistic artstyle to me. I can't quite tell what OG Oblivion did.

feral viper
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Drooled on a sketch pad whole binge watching Lord of the Rings for the 12th time that month.

noble verge
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I think I have an old Game Informer that discusses the original Oblivion's art direction.

feral viper
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The only time I remember it being discussed directly was for Shivering Isles (which I also don't think has interesting art direction). But I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention at the time, admittedly

dense marten
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I’ve always wanted to be a va for an elder scrolls character but I’m fairly new and my khajiit accent isn’t perfect

thick heron
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Hey, is there a mod around? I have a stupid question.

harsh crown
thick heron
harsh crown
thick heron
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Aight

sharp tulip
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Is there a lore reason for why Khajiit and Argonians only have digitigrade legs in Morrowind and nowhere else?
Even in ESO, which takes place at a time when those kinds of Khajiit would be in Morrowind, they're the Skyrim kind of khajiit with plantigrade instead. You never see digitigrade beast races anywhere in any piece of media ever again, like they were entirely erased from existence.
Even going to Elsewyr in ESO, which has EVERY kind of Khajiit there, they have every Khajiit except the Morrowind kind.

noble verge
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I can see two reasons. The first is so that Bethesda doesn't need to create different animation sets for Khajiit and Argonians, the second reason is because the inability to wear boots is a crippling downside, especially when you get into armor set effects like the Crusader's Relics in TES IV and Matching Set perk in TES V.

dense marten
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There’s a mod that gives them the digitigrade legs for Skyrim and you can wear boots they just don’t show up on your character or any npcs

tawny cove
sharp tulip
steel loom
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or at least, presumably

jade plover
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Hi, I hope someone from BGS will read this. If anyone knows someone from Bethesda, show this message to them please. I really want TES VI to be a great game, so I’m going to give them some useful advice on how to make it great. Yes, I know they’ve probably heard this a hundred times, but let’s do it once more, okay?

  1. Focus on quality, not quantity.
  2. Make the world hand-crafted, no generative junk. The world should be easy to navigate by landmarks without a map, like in Morrowind, Skyrim, and Fallout 4.
    Same goes for dungeons/points of interest – make them handcrafted, unique, and interesting.
  3. Give each city unique architecture.
  4. Make NPCs feel alive again.
    Bad example – Starfield.
    Good example – Immersive Citizens mod for Skyrim.
  5. Make quests interesting and unpredictable, like in Oblivion.
  6. Make dialogues deeper and more meaningful, like in Morrowind.
  7. Make dungeons dangerous, with unexpected traps and valuable treasures – again, like in Morrowind.
  8. Some might disagree, but make ruins less linear. If it's an ancient Dwemer, Nordic, or Ayleid city – make it look like a city, not a tunnel.
    Bad example – Alftand, Saarthal.
    Good example – Nchuand-Zel, Labyrinthian.
  9. No level-scaled artifacts – all artifacts should have fixed effects, like in Morrowind.
  10. Make Daedric artifacts special and incredibly powerful.
    Bad example – Ebony Mail (5 poison damage).
    Good example – Spellbreaker (creates a ward).
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  1. Bring back Jeremy Soule – he is the soul of The Elder Scrolls.
  2. Bring back the ability to loot gear from killed enemies.
  3. Balance crafting – player-made gear should not be stronger than unique artifacts.
  4. Bring back equipment degradation – so players can level Smithing by repairing, not just spamming daggers. Also, bring back pants and a second ring slot.
  5. Add more spells and more variety – each magic school should have both offensive and defensive spells.
  6. Add more potion and enchantment effects.
  7. Add immersion – allow players to complete most quests in different ways. Not just choosing sides, but truly different methods: different ways of getting information, infiltrating quest locations, etc.
  8. Make Speechcraft more important, like in Morrowind, so it’s needed to get quest info.
  9. Add more RPG elements – race, class, and skills should influence dialogue and the world.
  10. Don’t waste too many resources on settlement building – most players don’t care. They play your games for story and world, not for village sim management.
  11. Maybe bring back lockpicking from Oblivion.
  12. Come up with or find more unique creatures not seen in every other fantasy.
  13. If there’s resistance to diseases and poisons, make them actually dangerous. (In Skyrim, almost nobody uses poisons and diseases can be cured at any shrine anytime.)
  14. Add more evil or morally gray characters.
  15. Not a suggestion, just a personal opinion – the game doesn’t have to be photorealistic. It’s fantasy, and fantasy feels better when stylized. It also puts less strain on systems.
  16. Another opinion – consider hiring Clamavi De Profundis to write songs for bards.
    If I forgot something important, others can reply and I’ll add more to this message.
eternal mantle
steel loom
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Add more evil or morally gray characters.
huh
Maybe bring back lockpicking from Oblivion.
are you even
Add more RPG elements – race, class, and skills should influence dialogue and the world.
Starfield is already good in this
Add more spells and more variety – each magic school should have both offensive and defensive spells.
Skyrim has more variety of spells than touch/projectile/area. It has lightning strikes that bounces for crying out loud. Maybe what you want is spell blending or more favourable scaling
Make dialogues deeper and more meaningful, like in Morrowind.
That yes/no wikipedia for dialogue, only there because of vestige from Daggerfall?
Make NPCs feel alive again.
Bad example – Starfield.
Good example – Immersive Citizens mod for Skyrim.
Will you speak for those who wants ambient NPCs just so the cities feel bigger? Did you talk to those folks?
Make dungeons dangerous, with unexpected traps and valuable treasures – again, like in Morrowind.
Be more specific, we're better than this
Make Speechcraft more important, like in Morrowind, so it’s needed to get quest info.
Starfield is the best among the bunch in this
Add more RPG elements – race, class, and skills should influence dialogue and the world.
ditto
Come up with or find more unique creatures not seen in every other fantasy.
only and only if it's that rendition of Mephala

Just please becareful of what we ask for

jade plover
# steel loom > Add more evil or morally gray characters. huh > Maybe bring back lockpicking f...
  1. I don't understand what you dislike about morally gray characters, they make world more interesting.
    2 A lot of people like oblivion lockpicking but okay, it isn't that important just a fun thing
  2. Yes starfield is good at it, but first: it can be done better; second: bethesda often randomly removes good working things from games so its just a reminder.
  3. Skyrim has lot less spells than it was before, it doesn't have feather, burden, silence, fortify/decrease stats (because it doesn't even have stats), summoned armor etc. But i meant they should add just more spells in general not just return old ones. Skyrim didn't have many spells.
  4. No, i don't want dialogues made exactly like in morrowind, but i like it when you can ask a lot of stuff from different npc's, like ask where is a tavern or where to find someone. That is what makes it deeper there.
  5. Well, im sure most people like alive npc's and immersive sitizens is one of the most popular mods. They don't have to give unique personality to every npc, but they must act like real people, as it made in KCD for example, not like in starfield where they are just static. If people want to have big cities with same repititive npc's they can play the witcher.
  6. Okay, in morrowind taking something from the table can summon a dremora or ressurect nearby sceletons while in skyrim most traps are huge dark buttons on the floor. Most rewards for exploring dungeons in morrowind are expensive gear, rare ingredients and usefull scrolls while in skyrim its just few level-related enchanted weapons.
  7. Okay, but as i said before bethesda can randomly decide to remove it, so it is a reminder that speechcraft is important.
  8. 🤝
  9. not exactly, i mean lets imagine next game is in Hammerfell. they will probably think about adding jinns, sand worms, manticoras, mummies etc. but it also would be cool if they add more unique creatures and of course more daedras
    Thank you for your opinion, i will edit my message considering this
nimble pond
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So we have poisons in the game, usually potions. But how about some administered by air?
Maybe even get a bit creative and poison the mind of enemies mentally?

hollow cloak
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Am I the only one hoping they put attributes back in The Elder Scroll 6?

jade plover
hollow cloak
jade plover
hollow cloak
jade plover
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true, i wish they will return attributes

feral viper
# jade plover 11. Bring back Jeremy Soule – he is the soul of The Elder Scrolls. 12. Bri...

Ok, this is gonna be a long one.

1, Agree.

2, Don't necessarily agree. Hand crafting and procedural generation both have strengths, and can complement eachother. Don't discard a tool just because you've used it poorly in the past.

3, agree in principle, but I think it's too generalised a rule. Make things unique, yes, but do so naturally and logically, don't force differences for the sake of having them.

4, They never did. Bethesda has never made NPCs feel alive, and I'd go so far as to say that no one in gaming ever really has. It'd be nice, but until I actually see it done, I'm not going to demand it.

5, we played very different Oblivion's apparently. The only unpredictability was what new plothole would be made next.

6, we also played different Morrowind's. I love it, but very little of its dialogue was deep or meaningful, it was info-kiosk exposition dumped.

7, sort of agree. Dungeons should be varied, and ones that are intended to be dangerous should be. A cave, not so much, a tomb designed to keep people out, yes.

8, Similarly depends. Sites should be designed naturally around what they are. A fort should feel like a ruined fort, it a labyrinth video game level. Meanwhile, a cave is subject to the variable whims of nature, and should feel erratic.
9, Agree. But they should also be much more difficult to obtain.

10, Similarly, agree.

11, Disagree. Honestly, I think he contributed a handful of decent pieces, one good one, and then didn't really do diddly since Morrowind. But I'd also argue that TES hasn't had a soul SINCE Morrowind, so...

12, I think that's a given, and I genuinely don't know why it wasn't in Starfield.

13, Absolutely. Though asking for Ballance from Bethesda is kinda of like asking God to do literally anything..

14, As it was, Absolutely not. The idea has merit, but the execution has always been dog ****.

15, Yes, I agree, though that's a much longer topic.

Aaaand break is over. I will be back for a part 2.

jade plover
# feral viper Ok, this is gonna be a long one. 1, Agree. 2, Don't necessarily agree. Hand ...

Yes, procedural generation can be a good tool, but you saw how bethesda used it. Starfield's world is awfull and boring to explore. They can use generation to crate landscape, but there must be pretty nature with recognisable landmarks, some random unmarked ruins, hidden treasures etc. So what i meant is: made world like skyrim, fallout 4 or KCD. Not like starfield.

Yes they didnt have best npc's in the world but they were better before. I understand they cant make nps's like in rdr 2 but they can make it at least like in skyrim. Starfield npc's was a massive step back.

I used oblivion as an example because it my opinion it has the best quests in elder scrolls series except for the main story quests, which are better in TESO. But yes if they can do even better let them do better.

Okay, I overreacted by saying "meaningfull", but they were definitely deep. Any npc could tell rumors, give advice, help with navigation, or tell something about himself and the place where he lives. The way it was done would look ridiculous in a modern game, but I like the amount of information that can be obtained from the people of Morrowind.

You are right about dungeons, i used wrong words. When i was writing it i was actually thinking about tombs and ruins but forgot about caves

About artifacts there can be natural scaling. Like not very powerfull things can be easy to get, but something like mace of molag bal must be difficult to find

Music is a matter of taste so i can't argue about it

I would like you to explain why armor corruption was made poorly

jade plover
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i left my message under new bethesda video on youtube as well

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i want more people to tell their opinion

dim reef
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Hey everyone i am new to the elder scrolls series and i wanted to know which game is good oblivion remastered or skyrim

pulsar root
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I would say Oblivion but there are differences between the two.

jade plover
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if you are new to series its better to play backwards: skyrim -> oblivion -> morrowind etc

undone mantle
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Anywhere appropriate I can share a Youtube video without being spammy?

stark flower
undone mantle
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It's a character roleplay build for oblivion remastered :3

feral viper
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As far as the Procedural Generation goes... Procgen is actually really good at Nature. because nature is inherently procedural. Its just a complicated procedural.

I can say a lot about why I think it's use in Starfield is bad, but if I go into a lot of detail it's going to become very clear what roles in development I think are to blame, so I won't do that.

I'll simply say, using Procgen (when decently designed) to do a once over of the world, to create those natural spaces, and then going back and pruning it by hand (like how WE pruned the real world by hand) is the best approach.

Fully hand crafting creates too many recognisable and clearly artificial patterns in the world and makes it stick out.

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As far as NPCs go... I don't like RDR2 either. In fact, I think Rockstars worlds are lifeless, souless husks of automated drones doing nothing but taking up space. They're crowded, not alive, like a movie set full of mannequins on rails.

To get anything close to living NPCs, you have to go to settlement or colony sim games. Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, hell even The Sims.

stark flower
feral viper
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I won't comment more on Oblivion's quests, since the more I say about Oblivion the more I get called a Troll...

About NPC dialogue, the main issue with Morrowind was, everyone draws from the same pool. People aren't individuals. You ask one person in Balmora about the city, you've basically asked them all. Because they're going to give you the same answer. Yes, they have regional variability, but they function more like info-kiosk at an amusement park than Characters.

That's another problem that Procedural Generation can address, but there's a lot more to that issue.

undone mantle
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Well if anyone is interested here ya go 😺 https://youtu.be/Qq1Ay-IfKvk

YouTube
PonPon
| Oblivion Remastered Roleplay Builds | SUGARCLAW 🐾

Since Oblivion Remastered released i've been wanting to make a Series of my roleplay builds. Let me know what you'd like to see next!

Music via Epidemic Sound:
Moon Child by Bonnie Grace
https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/JdVad8Cb3N/

River Walk by Philip Avers
https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/EesLrKzb3j/

Legends Awaken by Dream Cave ...

▶ Play video
feral viper
undone mantle
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Punch cat! 👊

feral viper
# jade plover i want more people to tell their opinion

And finally, a technical topic... Durability and Degradation.

Conceptually, the idea is great. As you use tools, especially in a rough manner, they tend to wear out. They then need maintenance.

The problem comes from execution. Morrowind, Oblivion, really MOST games that have durability mechanics, use it as another Character Resource like Health or Stamina.

The issue comes from the fact that other resources have active decision making involved. You can work with those resources and decide what to risk, what to use, etc.

Durability, on the other hand, usually functions as a raw tax on gameplay. There's no way to play around it, if just drops as you use your equipment, too bad, deal with it. And worse, in Oblivion, the more effective you ARE, the faster it drops in some cases (higher Strength actively makes your weapons break faster. So the more damage you do, the faster they break).

There's a reason MMOs primarily use durability as punishment for Dying now, because at least then there's a degree of control for the player to engage with.

I DO think that the puzzle pieces are already on the table to make the dynamic something worthwhile... But as it's been used in the past, it's just a tax on gameplay. And those are bad.

feral viper
jade plover
# feral viper As far as the Procedural Generation goes... Procgen is actually really good at N...

I agree with that, but have you seen inhabited planets in starfield? it looks nothing like a real nature. As far as i know nature in oblivion was made by generation as well but it looks much better in there. However, i prefer how it made in skyrim every piece of world is special and if you give a random screenshot from skyrim i can tell where is it placed pretty accurately. Same for fallout 4. But i can't do this with oblivion because all forest looks the same and doesn't have any landmarks. this is why i like it more in skyrim. if they are able to do the same but using generation then okay, i'd be happy for them because it would help to make bigger but still interesting world full of things to look for

jade plover
jade plover
feral viper
feral viper
jade plover
jade plover
pulsar root
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Lets not. KCD's setting is beautiful but the gameplay I would rather look at Bethesda any day of the week.

feral viper
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That may be true, though it would explain in part why I find LCD to be visually uninteresting to the point of boring.

They have the historical realism to lean on though, whereas Oblivion was just vapid.

feral viper
sharp tulip
feral viper
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Too general a statement, and it very much does not work that way

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There are Morrowboomers who think Skyrim is better, and there are Skybabies who adore Morrowind.

sharp tulip
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I don't think either of those have ever been true

pulsar root
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Morrowind is too old for me to play and I liked Oblivion. I love Skyrim but its not perfect either.

silver turret
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I wonder if there are mods for oblivion like there is for skyrim?

feral viper
pulsar root
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I'll need some details on that.

feral viper
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What I mean is, yes. Not for the Remaster, but there are many, many mods for Oblivion.

jade plover
pulsar root
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Skyrim Enchanting>Oblivion Enchanting.

feral viper
jade plover
sharp tulip
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I mean your favorite is still your first, it's kinda how it works

feral viper
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My first was Daggerfall.

My favourite is Morrowind.

jade plover
tawny cove
jade plover
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dont remember it

tawny cove
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You most likely didn't join the University or didn't look at the services there. It's also where you can make custom spells

pulsar root
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Yeah the access to the enchanting alter prevents you from using it. Unlike Skyrim

jade plover
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yeah i checked it, enchantment altars exist only in arcane univercity. i completed all their quests but since i never played as a full mage in oblivion i didnt really care about their services

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in morrowind they have enchanting dudes in every mages guild

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but since their prices are inadequately high, it's better to do it yourself

lusty tiger
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You can get an enchantment alter early by just going to Frostcrag Spire. Instead of a long quest line it just costs some gold

feral viper
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Yeah, Oblivion doesn't have Enchanting as a Skill, but if you use the Enchanting Altars in the Arcane University, you can enchant just like you could in Morrowind.

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Functionally, it was the same as Morrowind though. Which was effectively just the same interface and system that the actual Construction Set uses.

livid ingot
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I agree, Oblivion has the worse enchanting since it was removed as a skill.

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I don't think any of the games really did great things with the mechanic though.

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One thing I would bring back is being required to identify an enchantment or bringing it to an enchanter to be identified.

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One new thing I would like to see would be spells that let you channel magic into your weapon directly from your magicka reserves.

feral viper
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There's a lot I would like to see regarding Enchanting, buuut that's a whole rant...

eager remnant
livid ingot
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Maybe for a less broad topic then, who likes the weapon material system and who doesn't? Daggerfall being the most extreme example, Oblivion being the most modest, with the system being completely done away with in Skyrim.

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Related to this topic, I think the whole thing of enemies having weaknesses and resistances was dialed back in Skyrim as well

feral viper
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I personally hate it in practice. It just ends up being a simple gear-check on enemies, and doesn't really have much in the way of strategy or counterplay.

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If specific types of enemies had very specific resistances, making it a strategic counter or situational wrench in the works, I'd like it more.

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Like Ghosts being weak to Iron, Trolls to Orchalcum, Werewolves to Silver, etc

tardy tiger
#

For some it doesn't make sense.

Like being immune to being hit with a weapon should still do damage but weapons that counter should do better.

harsh plinth
#

I just wanna point this out
Fortnite ballistics updated and added a map called hammer fall

feral viper
#

So, I generally think that's it's better suited as more of a situational nuance than a generalised system.

pulsar root
#

Undead should take extra damage from anything thats considered "Holy" or even Divine.

feral viper
# jade plover 11. Bring back Jeremy Soule – he is the soul of The Elder Scrolls. 12. Bri...

Anyway, finishing up before I forget.

16, Yes, though again I think Enchanting and Alchemy need some serious overhauls. As does crafting in general.

17, in principle yes, though I'm against alternate endings. They're the lazy writers way of acting different options..

18, Again, agreed. Though in this case I don't think Morrowind is the best example. The idea I support though.

19, I've gone over this one at length, but I don't think Race and Class should even necessarily be a thing in the way they traditionally are. But I do generally agree that more options on how dialogue choices are made available is important.

21, Honestly, hard disagree. But that's because I think settlement building is probably the best addition Bethesda has made in the last 20 years. Even then, it needs some serious work to make it more than the superficial tacked on afterthought it is now.

22, yes and no. As an unlockable, more precise form of Lockpicking? Sure. At base however, it's intrusive and utterly destroys any sense of suspense due to the fact it pauses time.

22, ABSOLUTELY. Holy sweet beslubering nugget trucked, the art direction and fantasy worldbuilding of TES has basically been dead since we saw our first glimpse of Oblivion, and it's just generic as hell now. Not just monsters, EVERYTHING. The entire setting has become the sort of bland, bog standard nonsense I expect from AI.

24, Evil, sure. Morally grey... Eh, most times game writers try to make a morally grey character, they just end up writing a reprehensible POS. Once in awhile you get one that almost stumbles into the mark, like Vae Victus, but for every success there are a thousand failures.

25, absolutely. Style over photorealism. Especially considering Bethesda hasn't actually shown an ability to DO photorealism.

feral viper
primal olive
#

she mantra on my enlightenment until Nords genocide us for existing

wide garnet
tawny cove
primal olive
cerulean stag
#

Hear me Aedra, I demand a remaster of Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.
Do this for me I will refrain from corrupting your mortals.... for a time at least.

jade plover
nimble pond
#

Sand sharks 💀

jade plover
#

okay i edited my message correcting some shortcomings and will send it again if there is anything you don't agree with - let me know

#

Hi, I hope someone from BGS will read this. If anyone knows someone from Bethesda show this message to them please. I really want TES VI to be a great game, so I’m going to give them some useful advice on how to make it great. Yes, I know they’ve probably heard this a hundred times, but let’s do it once more, okay?

  1. Focus on quality, not quantity.
  2. Use manual work more than procedural generation. The world should be easy to navigate by landmarks without a map, like in Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallout 4 or Kingdome come deliverance. Starfield’s world was bad for exploration.
  3. Same goes for dungeons/points of interest – make them handcrafted, unique, and interesting. Don’t make random appearing identical POIs again.
  4. Give each city unique architecture.
  5. Give NPCs good AI again. Immersive Citizens mod for Skyrim has good AI, Starfield barely has AI at all.
  6. Make more different situations for quests, like was in Oblivion. Not just “take a thing from a cave” quests.
  7. Make dialogues deeper and more meaningful. Give npc’s more info to tell.
  8. Make dungeons more dangerous, with unexpected traps and valuable treasures – again, like in Morrowind. It would also be nice to make them darker so night eye and torches will become useful.
  9. Make some ancient ruins less linear. If lore says it was a city – make it look like a city, not a tunnel. Bad example – Alftand, Saarthal. Good example – Nchuand-Zel, Labyrinthian.
  10. No level-scaled artifacts – all artifacts should have fixed effects, like in Morrowind. More powerful artifacts must be harder to get.
  11. Make Daedric artifacts special and incredibly powerful. Bad example – Ebony Mail (5 poison damage). Good example – Spellbreaker (creates a ward), Wabbajack (does Wabbajacking)
  12. Change the composer, music in fallout 4 and starfield is not memorable. Ideally bring back Jeremy Soule – he is the soul of The Elder Scrolls.
#

for some reason i cant send a second part

#

maybe its too big

#

i will try later

#
  1. Bring back the ability to loot gear from killed enemies.
  2. Balance crafting – player-made gear should not be stronger than unique artifacts.
  3. Also, give us pants back and a second ring slot too.
  4. Add more spells and more variety – each magic school should have both offensive and defensive spells. Good example of variable magic is Baldur’s gate 3 or DnD in general.
  5. Come up with or find more unique creatures not seen in every other fantasy.
  6. Add more potion and enchantment effects. Improve crafting systems in general so that players don't have to create 100 daggers and then enchant them all to progress. This is nonsense.
  7. Add immersion – allow players to complete most quests in different ways. Not just choosing sides, but truly different methods: different ways of getting information, infiltrating quest locations, etc.
  8. Make Speechcraft important, so it’s needed to get quest info or allow to finish quests differently. Starfield was pretty good at it but you can do better.
  9. Add more RPG elements – race and abilities should influence dialogues and be significant in some quests. Also brin back attributes.
  10. Don’t waste too many resources on settlement building, it is not the main part of gameplay.
  11. Make poisons and diseases more common and more dangerous. Also add dangerous environmental conditions to the game, like in Fallout 4 and Starfield, so that resistance to poisons and diseases will makes sense.
  12. Add more evil or morally gray characters.
  13. Not a suggestion, just a personal opinion – the game doesn’t have to be photorealistic. It’s fantasy, and fantasy feels better when stylized. It also puts less strain on systems.
  14. Ask players (make a vote or something) what kind of lockpicking they like more and do something to it. I personally like lockpicking in oblivion and starfield more than in skyrim and fallout4.
#

and here it is

tardy tiger
#

4: Honestly I will this was a detriment to TES4 as it pretty much killed off the Colovians and Nibenese.

9: It's really the issue of dungeon design tbh. What you want from dungeons is not something you'll get with cities. Also a scale thing as would you want Dwemer ruins like Markarth or Ayleid ruins as a smaller Imperial city?

jade plover
#

no as i said Nchuand-Zel is a good example. dungeons dont have to be very big, but i just would like them to make more sense, and look less like a tunnels. not all of them but those what described as ruined cities in lore

#

Nchuand-Zel is actually smaller than most dwemer ruins but i like it the most because it looks more realistic, you could imagine people lived there

#

and about TES 4, im not very good at lore but i thought the division into Colovians and Nibenese existed in the 1-2 era, but at the time of the events of Oblivion, they were one mixed folk

tardy tiger
#

Colovians and the Nibenese are meant to still be around. Even in dialogue (what little there is) and loading screens it's around.

Just TES4 did not want to be in Cyrodiil.

jade plover
#

in any case, the gist of my point was that "in Skyrim, 4 out of 9 cities look the same, and that's bad"

jade plover
#

or they could choose high rock as the provine for the game since there was definitely an intention to create generic fantasy to attract more people

#

but still more architecture differences is better than less architecture differences

grim widget
#

Yo why do my skyrim mods not work? Im on ps5

tardy tiger
#

Depends on how the architecture is done. TES4 was the game that showed the Imperials were a mistake.

jade plover
eager remnant
nimble pond
#

As for enchanting, it's one of those things I'd like to see improved visuals/graphic effect for. 99% of the time I'm going to have my weapon out, let me see some flames coming off my enchanted fire weapon and icy swirl coming off the other.

hollow cloak
#

Do you think they will finally put romance in The Elder Scroll 6?

#

In Skyrim they tried marriage but it was no big deal

grim widget
hollow cloak
feral viper
#

Eeeh... They put it in Starfield, and honestly...

I'd rather not. It's clear that their writers are not romance writers. Or, maybe, ARE romance writers, given the quality of most romance novels.

jade plover
tight charm
hollow cloak
#

Maybe it's just my thing but I would like more freedom like becoming a lord or king or marrying the queen who knows.

#

Elisif was truly enchanting, too bad her husband had just died😂

#

I'm not even mentioning Serana, it's really a blow to the heart

jade plover
#

in baldur's gate it's done better

hollow cloak
#

Yes I meant the approach in the missions I know that even Cyberpunk is very limited

#

Have you ever approached a character of the opposite sex in the Elder Scrolls like in Cyberpunk?

#

I mean the scene with Panam is short but damn it's done well😂

jade plover
#

Yeah, it is true

#

It was done well

feral viper
#

Eh, I thought it was passable. But I wouldn't call any romance in any game 'Good'.

Maybe that says more about my romances in real life than anything.

#

But they're just always stilted, overly cinematic, and unnatural feeling. Romance is fun, it's terrifying, it's adventurous, and a hundred other things. It's not the constant lovey-dovey Hollywood tropes.

And whenever we GET those tropes, it always just feels forced, artificial, and entirely unengaging.

jade plover
#

i came up with a new thing added to my message to bethesda

#

they must make ebony, glass and daedric armor rare again. Tthey relate specifically to morrowind because it is made out of morrowind resources. It’s better to add just few sets of them, but also create new super cool equipment related to territory of the game

feral viper
#

Eeeh, they kinda went back to how it was before Morrowind. At least for Ebony and Daedric. Which was a bad decision, I agree, but it's not like it was unprecedented.

I also doubt their interest in creating anything particularly unique for the territory, honestly. Though I would support it if they actually did.

feral viper
feral viper
#

As far as composers go...

I actually think Inon Zur is, on the whole, better. Better range, better tone, and better thematic relevance to the games he scores for.

Though I honestly think that Jesper Kyd beats both of them.

Regarding Soule's work, while he DID do my favourite TES piece (Nerevar Rising) he still only makes it in 2 of the top 5, with Peaceful Waters pulling up the rear, behind Battlespire's theme, then Daggerfall's, then Resguard's. Though I don't even think Morrowind is his best complete soundtrack.

Uematsu is obviously not an option, though I'd go as far as to say that he is the single greatest composer in gaming.

Nor does the like of Mick Gordon really fit the style, though he's frankly brilliant.

Still on the whole, I think the series is in decent hands, musically, with Zur.

jade plover
#

it is really strange they were connected to the armor in skyrim

#

well, in fallout 4 they made a lot of different equipment again, so they are going the right way

#

don't know how is it made in starfield

feral viper
jade plover
#

also explain again whats wrong with having different architecture for cities. it was so lazy to make 4 cities of skyrim look like default villages

#

and why do you dislike influance of race and skills? it was very well made in BG 3 where you character race, background and attributes can give you an advantage in some situations

#

although they overdid it with the githyanki, in fact making them stronger than the others, but it's a matter of balance

#

we have a little bit of it in tes. i think if you are dunmer most people treat you better in morrowind and if you are ork you can enter ork strongholds in skyrim without doing quests for them

#

isn't it cool?

#

it adds more of roleplaying and immersion

feral viper
pulsar root
#

Sure unless you prove yourself then they treat any race good, Orcs not withstanding.

feral viper
# jade plover also explain again whats wrong with having different architecture for cities. it...

I'm against it, because it confuses Different Looks, with Meaningful Differences.

Oblivion is a perfect example of this. All the cities are visually unique, and that's it. Same culture, same attitudes, same social structures, same everything.

Compare that to Morrowind, where SOME of its cities were unique, but more importantly, the major political factions had their own architectural style. You knew when you were walking into a Redoran community, or an Imperial Settlement, or a Twlvanni mage-hold.

I'm fine with differences, so long as they're meaningful. And Oblivion's, were not. Skyrim's, slightly less so, though still basically worthless.

tardy tiger
#

Oblivions Architecture just did not give an idea of the homeland of the "Imperials".

feral viper
#

Oblivion's everything, in hindsight, feels AI generated. It's in inconsistent hodge podge that never actually fits together in a thematically coherent way.

#

I'm pretty sure I know what word triggered that... Which instantly makes me question what could have gotten that banned...

#

Anyway, Races. Hate the concept entirely, so that's one problem.

The bigger problem is, once you start telling people what they know about X, you start imposing characteristics and identity on them. Not all Dunmer are going to worship the Tribunes, or believe in a Meritocracy, of even care about their Ancestors.

On the flip side, not every Nord is going to be hostile to every Elf.

These things are too nuanced for any sort of generalised system.

shell swan
# feral viper I'm against it, because it confuses Different Looks, with Meaningful Differences...

Ehh, I disagree. I think the differences in architecture are nice. The only criticism is that the only difference is the architecture. It is not further built upon.

Skingrad and Chorrol show clear Colovian architecture - with only minor localized differences. Anvil might do so too, unless if it's meant to be inspired by Hammerfell. Bravil doesn't count.

Leyawiin shows clear signs of it being different culturally; its colorfol houses drawing a stark contrast to the rest of Cyrodiil. Bruma's Nord architecture is also very visible.

Cheydinhal's architecture being Dunmeri is something we only know because the game says so, which is kind of a pity imo. There is nothing about the buildings themselves that screams ''oh yeah, this looks like something they'd design in Morrowind.''

eager remnant
#

I would argue that, in one sense at least, Oblivion's eight walled cities are actually not unique. They are all surrounded by identical wall architecture. Unlike Morrowind and Skyrim it is nearly impossible to distinguish one Oblivion town from another, from a distance.

tardy tiger
#

Anvil if I recall is referred to as looking Redguard by Wilbur

#

Anvil
"Buildings here look different. Why? This is the Gold Coast style, like in Hammerfell. Eastern towns look grey and dull to me."

shell swan
#

Yeah, thought I'd heard something like that but I wasn't sure.

feral viper
#

I have never understood the Cheydinhal/Dunmer association. Yes, I know the game SAYS it, but it says a lot of dumb stuff.

tardy tiger
#

Cursed Narsis Architecture of Cheydinhal.

shell swan
#

I get why Dunmer would migrate to Cheydinhal... but the architecture being Dunmeri I just don't follow. It doesn't match any of the styles we saw in Morrowind. Hell, even when Dragonborn brought more Dunmeri architecture, it still doesn't match.

feral viper
#

Exactly.

shell swan
#

I suppose you could say it's Cyro-Dunmeri, but that's just lazy imo.

feral viper
#

There's no stylistic influences in reality, we're just TOLD there are.

shell swan
#

In fact, I'm fairly certain it doesn't even match any Dunmeri style in ESO either.

tardy tiger
#

It doesn't. It's a weird style that is "Dunmeri" but shares similarities with the Empire Colonial set (Whatever that Breton/Nordic thing is) if my memory is working

shell swan
#

You mean like the Pelagiad and stuff style in TES III?

tardy tiger
#

I think? I'd have to double check but i'm in ESO atm.

feral viper
#

But my overall point remains. Visual differences aren't enough. They need to mean something.

#

Using visual styles to represent what faction controls what area, what culture is dominant, the historical occupation of a location, etc.

feral viper
#

Holy crap, Inon Zur did Two Thrones?

Noice..

nimble pond
jade plover
# feral viper I'm against it, because it confuses Different Looks, with Meaningful Differences...

morrowind have more cities than other bethesda games and has more styles. Skyrim has styles of 5 big cities + default village style. Morrowind has redoran, hlaalu, telvanni, tribunal, two imperial, ashlander and wooden styles.
i understand what you mean but culture has nothing to do with arcitecture. bethesda can make all cities different and at the same time show or now show different culture in it, it depends on lore. in any case its still better to have different styles, or would you prefer all cities in oblivion to look the same just because they have the same culture?

jade plover
jade plover
feral viper
jade plover
# feral viper But my overall point remains. Visual differences aren't enough. They need to mea...

i can add this to my message but im not sure if its relevant. they can make as many different cultures in cities as there are in lore but it doesnt mean that all cities inside one culture must look the same, or we are going to have only 2 styles for hammerfell and it sucks. so i think its a bit different topic. i can add one more point to the message, something like "add more differences between cultures"

feral viper
#

Bear in mind, I'm coming from this from an Anthropologist perspective. Architecture is very much a feature of culture, and it is an organic evolution of artistic and practical considerations of the culture that builds whatever structure we're talking about.

#

Now, to be entirely blunt, I don't think Bethesda's worldbuilding is very good. It hasn't been for a very long time, and the thoughtless difference for the sake of difference is part of that problem.

Over reliance on superficial tropes is another.

jade plover
#

so you would like to have only 2 types of cities in the next game because it's how it would be in real life?

feral viper
#

No, because it wouldn't be.

#

Nor would Hammerfell only have 2 factions, historical periods, or continuities anyway.

Unless they're lazy and just go 'Crowns and Forbears!'

jade plover
#

i dont remember any other cultures in hammerfell

feral viper
#

More practically, you'd have Crowns, Forebears, Luhtonics, Alik'r, Imperial Settlements, probably some Altmeri settlements or fortifications.

#

And that's just the main ones.

jade plover
#

okay, then would it make more sense if i rewrite that point to "having four hold capitals with the same appearance sucks, don't do things like this"

feral viper
#

And even then, you can subdivide major styles into more options, maintaining a deeper design language, with different factional dynasties having slightly different variations of the same overall styles.

jade plover
feral viper
jade plover
#

It's too vague, I'm not sure they'll understand if they don't read our entire dialogue

feral viper
#

You'd be hard pressed to describe the stylings of any individual faction in Morrowind with 3 words.

Meanwhile, Starfield is 'CoWbOyS iN sPaCe!' nonsense.

#

Hah, I don't think they read diddly. We're talking amongst ourselves here.

jade plover
feral viper
#

Hah, I know. I've been slinging ideas at the wall here for years. I fully sympathise with the effort.

jade plover
#

Hlaalu - merchants in comfy houses, Telvanni - crazy wizard living in mushrooms, Redoran - harsh warriors living in big bugs

feral viper
jade plover
#

real

feral viper
#

And still not entirely accurate.

But yeah, you can oversimplify them down to an extent but you lose a lot in the process.

Factions since Morrowind HAVE been the oversimplification personified.

#

For the effort of over a decade, I think Starfield really shows this problem extra strongly. It's factions are frankly just sad, and show a pretty universal wasted effort.

jade plover
jade plover
feral viper
#

Racial differences.

I like the idea of having ways to influence quests and dialogue on a situational basis.

Even then, I DO think racial prejudices and attitudes have a place, even if Races as an explicit concept do not. It's just a more complicated topic than the sort of universalalities of Morrowind

jade plover
#

i think it is essential for fantasy RPG and since bethseda always call the elder scrolls an RPG it should work at some level. Fantasy races without different features are just skins

#

They shouldn't make such strong differences as in DND, because in an action rpg it won't work, but there should be something

#

i just remembered in skyrim if you are a high elf and wear thalmor suit they won't attack you in thalmor embassy, i want more things like this

feral viper
#

Then make them Species. Take that extra step and don't half-ass it.
Races are not, nor have they ever been, a thing, and we need to stop using the word entirely.

At best, in TES, they are Ethnicities. But that's a more complicated expression of sociocultural differences none wants to bother with.

jade plover
#

i don't quite undestand you. An elf is a specie. But Dunmer and Altmer are races of this specie. And in the case of the embassy, it is exactly an Altmer (a race) who will not be attacked

feral viper
#

In D&D yes, and they finally changed that.

jade plover
#

changed what?

feral viper
#

They don't use Races anymore. They Species, or Heritage.

jade plover
#

whats the difference?

pulsar root
#

Splitting hairs

feral viper
#

A Species is an actual thing, a Race is not.

Species are, broadly speaking, reproductively distinct populations.

Race as a clade was effectively different phenotpical expressions lumped together so they could be collectively judged.

They don't exist. They have never existed. They are the product of outdated, bad science intentionally done to marginalised 'inferiors'.

Gygax brought them into D&D because A: they were and unfortunately still are recognised by the poorly educated public, and B: because he was a Biological Determinist. Which are Eugenicists politically correct younger brothers.

#

In D&D Elves, Dwarves, Humans etc are all different species. They have wildly different origins and surprisingly different physiology. And in most cases, can't interbreed easily.

TES is very different.

jade plover
#

in TES only argonians and kajits are reproductively distinct, others can mix

#

but are still biologically different you cant say nord and orc is the same specie even if they can have children

#

im not sure if they can tho

#

people and elves can

feral viper
#

Actually, even Khajiit and Argonians can interbreed. But that's a whole other thing and not the overall topic.

#

The major phenotypes of Tamriel are then subdivided into major Ethnic Groups. But they're all Ehlnofey, and as far as we can tell can all interbreed. But social pressures limit that in practice..

jade plover
#

so they are all just one specie because they are not reproductively distinct

feral viper
#

Applying real world standards, yes.

jade plover
#

so the problem is you just dislike the word race because some bad guy made it up

feral viper
#

Partially.

jade plover
#

if we go back to skyrim, ork allowed to go to ork stronghold and altmer won't be attacked in altmer ebassy because they are creatures who expected to be there. it doesn't really matter how you call it, if you dislike races call them folks or whatever it is still a very cool thing for roleplay

feral viper
#

Within the context of TES specifically, I also find it unnecessarily limiting on characters.

Just like in the real world, where the colour of someone's skin or their facial features tell you nothing about their attitudes, abilities or identity, the same applies to Tamriel.

At least in-lore. In practice, it practically defines those things..

#

But gameplay and mechanics should reflect the setting, not be arbitrary tropes tacked on because they're recognisable and expected.

jade plover
#

Well, to reflect the setting, Khajiit players should not be allowed into the cities, but that would make it very difficult to play

feral viper
#

Depends on the nation and time period. Khajiit are frequently the Judeans of Tamriel though, yes.

#

Now, I'm not saying that these sorts of tropes can't be used, but my issue is when they become forced. ALL Redguard are better Swordsmen. ALL Altmer are better Mages, etc.

A good system allows for both playing into those stereotypes, and against them. We've never HAD a good system in TES though.

#

Well, that's not entirely true.. Daggerfall did...

jade plover
#

it depends, in morrowind it is a problem when you have to choose certain race to be able to use certain skills well. but in skyrim basic differences in skills are barely noticable i didnt even know about them for a pretty long time

jade plover
#

well, they also have special abilities but most of them are useless and just copy spells

feral viper
jade plover
#

i would like them to add more interesting passive bonuses, that would be good

#

now its just different resistance bonuses

feral viper
#

Ideally, I'd like something that does this....

During creation, you have 2 approaches.

jade plover
#

the only two cool abilities are argonians can breathe under water and kajits can fight with claws

#

others must have something like this too

#

like for wood elf instead of stupid once a day "charm animals 50ft" something like a constant passive chance to charm a nearby animal

#

or ability to eat raw meat without being poisoned

#

not much usefull but makes sense with lore

feral viper
#

You can choose the quick route, where you pick a:

Race (I would prefer Ethnicity) which gives you some Traits, and say 2 minor Skill increases.

Class (I would prefer Background) which give you say a Trait and most of your skill Bonuses.

Birthsign which gives you some Traits or Powers.

jade plover
#

btw they really have to remake Birthsigns most of their bonuses were useless in every elder scrolls game

feral viper
#

Or you can choose the custom route. Where you pick:

phenotype (simply what you look like though may trigger certain NPC reactions or modifiers)

Traits

Starting Skills

Powers.

Totally custom. Totally unrestricted. Totally free.

jade plover
#

wait, so you agree that npc's must have different reactions on races you just dont want it to be called races

feral viper
#

I think NPCs should have biases and bigotries, yes. I just don't think Race directly has the same mechanical use.

I also don't agree with generalised systems like, Dark Elf -15 disposition to all non-Dark Elves.

#

Bigotry is individual, even when it systemic. NPCs should be treated as individuals.

jade plover
#

i played morrowind as a nord and i think there were some dunmers who didnt hate me

#

or maybe i changed their disposition earlier and forgot

feral viper
#

It's been awhile since I delved very deep into the construction set to check, admittedly

#

All a long winded way of saying 'I agree, with caveats and expansions.

noble verge
#

I'd rather TES not what D&D is doing with races or whatever you call it. Following the example of WOTC seems less wise with every passing year.

feral viper
#

In most cases I would agree. In terms of the name change and accepting that they are in fact Species, and not Races, I approve.r

#

I mean, hell. D&D elves are shape-changing fey-spirits cursed by their creator for being gender fluid enough.

noble verge
#

I think it's not a big deal. Referring to elves/humans/dwarves/orcs as races is a deeply ingrained fantasy trope, enough so that I'd argue that it's become a legitimate definition for "race" in a fictional context.

feral viper
#

If Race had finally stopped being used in a real world context, id agree. But that's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

pulsar root
#

Using the term races is fine, no need to change it.

noble verge
#

I believe changing the vocabulary and retconning it in all the background lore would be a far more contentious and controversial decision in real world discussion than just leaving it.

feral viper
#

Fair.

#

It's still like people using Theory wrong.

woeful bear
#

Why hasn't there been an update on TES VI since the teaser in 2018? Six years ago...

feral viper
#

Because that was only to get people to stop asking about it constantly.

frank ledge
woeful bear
frank ledge
#

There is no news, it's still years away

#

You'll get news when there's something worth sharing

pulsar root
#

Not yet.

nocturne stone
#

Please stay civil when discussing things, do not mock others.

jade plover
#

they announce games in a year of release

#

TES VI is a big exception

#

there are rumors though that when they realized people still care about elder scrolls they may show something this summer

#

if it was started in 2023 it must be a half way done by summer

nimble pond
#

Oh well, at least we have tasty leeks omnomnoms OblivionGuard

nimble pond
nimble pond
feral viper
jade plover
#

One is a mammal, another is a reptile

nimble pond
#

Furryosaur. Dynofury! Lol

#

Frankenstein them together

#

Throw in Maormer and then you got fish too 😄

nimble pond
#

Could breed your own unique pets. Like Pokémon eggs. Already got Alchemy, throw some genetics or other science in there

eager remnant
#

I believe another reason for the teaser was to squash the steadily growing rumors that Bethesda was never going to make another Elder Scrolls game.

feral viper
#

Indeed.

feral viper
#

So, kind of a weird point, but I just watched the Charismatic Voice's reaction to Advent Children's One Winged Angel... And it's got me thinking.

#

She's got a bit in there where she, basically, posits that video game composition is the absolute forefront of compositional music currently, due to this contextual AND interactive nature.

#

And it made me realise what TES soundtracks have been missing. There too traditional in their application and composition. They lack contextuality and texture, relying on classical structures and entirely isolated tracks for situations.

pulsar root
#

Music in ES is usually(for me) sometimes its good and other times its... very meh.

timber patrol
#

Weird that I got auto deleted, I didn’t say anything with bad language lol.

I was just saying that in my interpretation they wanted to get in front of the narrative perception that they would never make a singleplayer game again due to announcing 76 (a live service game) at the same time. So they revealed TES 6 and Starfield to be like “don’t worry if you like singleplayer games you got these to look forward to”

#

Although in hindsight I really don’t think it was necessary, and that teaser has only exacerbated the community into wondering “where is it?” Even more as time has gone on.

livid ingot
spare plaza
livid ingot
#

When news broke Bethesda was presenting, there was wild anticipation the next TES might be announced (although if you were following news closely, you would have known this was untrue). In any case, Bethesda was showing a new TES mobile spinoff as well and I think the TES teaser specifically created to help mollify fan disappointment. And it worked 💪.
Mind this is all speculation since I'm talking about this on an official platform. We have no real idea why Bethesda decided to air the teaser trailer then.

timber patrol
#

Didn’t even realize haha

timber patrol
primal olive
#

just experienced my first dwemer ruin in Morrowind, this game is the best elder scrolls ever oh my god

jade plover
#

but really nice reward make them still interesting to explore

primal olive
#

making a levitation spell for Skyrim wouldn't be hard either, just enable TCL but don't make you go through walls if possible

jade plover
#

they did it for balance i guess

#

it isnt nice when you are not able to explore dungeon if you are not mage ot dont have a special potion

jade plover
#

i hope they read this chat

jade plover
#

probably the best dungeon bethesda ever made

dim reef
#

Hey everyone i have a question

#

How is the elder scrolls online game? is it good?

timid drum
#

Depends what you define as good but I personally enjoy it

#

Plus it gives you more knowledge on the lore

eager remnant
primal olive
#

The gameplay is nothing like mainline games, however

#

BUT it IS canon, and the character customization and builds are quite diverse and lovely

#

from a lore standpoint, one of the best for TES

#

I have over 50 days in ESO I think it's worth it

azure shell
primal olive
azure shell
#

Ah

fierce vapor
#

When is the Oblivion orchestra special coming??

Yall did such an incredible job with Skyrim. It would seem like a huge failed opportunity to not do one for a game as legendary as TES IV: Oblivion

feral viper
#

Gotta have good music before you organize an orchestra performance for it.

tight charm
#

Good thing Oblivion has good music!

feral viper
nimble pond
#

That's some knee-slapping music right there!

livid glade
#

Shadowkey remake when?

jade plover
#

In general game is good

#

But i really I dislike that they sell 20 hours dlcs with a price of full - fledged game

velvet flax
jade plover
#

it is true too. main quest lines there are the best in elder scrolls games, but side quests may be tedious. most of them are like "find 3 people, kill 3 daedras, read 3 letters, activate 3 crystals, collect 3 flowers, press on 3 buttons, save 3 persons, find 3 gems etc" so you are just running around a village and doing something 3 times

#

quests related to dungeons are usually better, even though you still have to do something 3 times but in dungeon, they have pretty cool stories behind it

jade plover
velvet flax
nimble pond
jade plover
nimble pond
#

Just my wishful thinking

#

Wishes. That'd be cool. Wishes you can make in-game.

jade plover
#

or so like in morrowind

#

yeah that would be cool, there is a mod for skyrim that removes quest marks and adds detailed descriptions for quests so you can find a place by your own

tight charm
#

You can turn off quest markers in ESO if you so desire.

jade plover
silver turret
#

I killed the stupid thalmor ambassador

jade plover
#

morrowind's cities are so much bigger compared to skyrim

#

balmora has more than 30 houses, Solitude just 14

#

Whiterun 18

#

they should have made more

pulsar root
#

Whats done is done.

steel loom
#

sigh and Daggerfall had dozens and dozens of them, so what

They have rudimentary schedules too

feral viper
#

They also had no personalities or identity beyond a name tag.

Compromises sometimes need to be made.

midnight stag
#

Well it’s more likely we’ll just get a update this June 2025 for es6 and then 2026 June Xbox showcase to various sites that we will get a chance of an actual announcement of release of es6 so waiting another year is annoying but who knows also there might be a fallout 3 remastered mentioned I don’t know but es6 could be shown at the Xbox showcase 2026 June then released later that year so yeah wish I had a functional cryogenic chamber because DLC of this kind of game is easy to make because of the landscape in the game type

midnight stag
#

I know Bethesda pretty steamy about not being at this year’s event big time maybe

stiff isle
#

hi everyone. a question regarding elder scrolls online:

is it to Skyrim like Fallout 76 to Fallout 4? i enjoy 76 immensely because it has exactly the same engine mechanics as F4, and i wonder if ESO is like that? as if you're playing Skyrim but online

feral viper
#

No. It's more of a standard MMO, with a TES twist.

#

It's definitely more flexible in terms of character options than most MMOs, but it still plays fundamentally different than Skyrim.

stiff isle
feral viper
#

Gold Road is a specific story expansion. It think it's the most recent one, but I haven't payed attention for almost a year.

If you don't have it, or don't have an active subscription, you will be locked out of that storyline. However, the game still has a huge amount of content besides that, so if you're on the fence it's better to wait and see if you like the game before getting expansions.

stiff isle
feral viper
#

If you own the game, or any individual story pack directly, you can play them without restriction.

The subscription gives you access to the story packs and some other goodies, so you can either buy the expansions, or have an active subscription to access the content.

#

But if you have the base game, you have free to play for at least 3 major Alliance storylines, all the basic zones, and several side factions, so you've got a lot to experience already.

stiff isle
feral viper
#

Happy adventures. I may not play it anymore, but instill think ESO is one of the better MMOs I've played.

jade plover
#

Did zenimax ever explained why tes legends was closed? It was much better than heartstone

#

If it didnt bring enough money its only their marketing fault

#

The game was amazing

hollow cloak
#

Can you confirm if the armor from the Shivering Isles DLC can be seen on the hero statue in Bruma?

tardy tiger
#

Well the "statue" isn't a statue. It's a NPC so it should work

feral viper
#

When your friend sees the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood for what it is.

unique umbra
#

Are we ever getting a patch for oblivion ?

thorn vigil
tawdry copper
shell swan
#

Was a card game, yeah. Pretty decent

jade plover
pulsar root
#

Thats not really TES castle's fault. Both can exist if it was marketed correctly.

feral viper
#

Digital Card Games are pretty niche, and it's a market dominated by Hearthstone. It was going to be tough to push into anyway, regardless of the advertising.

As it was, Legends had a much better run than most similar card games that try to make it in that genre.

jade plover
#

Bethesda should make better melee combat system. The one that was in dark messiah would be perfect for the elder scrolls

feral viper
#

It's certainly a start. I'm not sure about Perfect, but it's much better than anything we've gotten

jade plover
#

Yeah they can start from it and improve it. I meant not the system itself it perfect but how it works is perfect

#

The fact that you can damage certain parts of enemies, disarm them in a fight, kick them, throw any objects, magic has physical relation to a world etc

#

They added different hit boxes for limbs in fallout 4 actually. It looked especially cool on robots

#

Do we still gave it in starfield or they removed it?

nimble pond
feral viper
#

Maybe. I may like my radicalized pariah head in there.

steel loom
#

Dark Messiah still has the caveat that most of the combat is between humanoids. Even its dragon battle is a setpiece rather than an extension of the melee

drowsy rose
#

So in ES6, will we finally stick it to the high elves? I only played Oblivion and Skyrim, but was the Empire already conquered, even in ES1?

#

Time to go on the offensive

sudden temple
#

I would love to see a DLC or something revolving around the akaviri

toxic ether
#

Is elder scrolls online better than fallout76?

outer wyvern
#

Imo yeah it is

frank ledge
#

I always wonder how Skyrim would've been if they'd stuck with the original idea of Emperor Septim returning from Akavir as a villain

jade plover
silver turret
#

What channel can I talk about a bug I found on skyrim?

nimble pond
jade plover
#

What planes of oblivion you would like to see in the next game?

shell swan
feral viper
feral viper
jade plover
#

Dude, shivering ilse is one of the best dlcs in gaming idustry

nimble pond
# jade plover What planes of oblivion you would like to see in the next game?

The first plane?

But I think it'd be nice if the Daedra opened a portal to somewhere else besides Nirn, somewhere they really shouldn't have awoken. Only to have all the Planes of Oblivion under invasion themselves from a formidable foe. Of course, it would be in Tamriel's best interest to help defend, since they would probably be next to be invaded.

nimble pond
nimble pond
jade plover
#

But maybe they will change their mind

shell swan
jade plover
#

Septim also wasnt a tyrant

#

He has brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to his new empire

feral viper
feral viper
jade plover
#

I think its pretty good

#

And people like it because its more immersive than other guilds

feral viper
#

It's a plot hole ridden quagmire of nonsense set to the backdrop of an edgy 13 year olds Depeche Mode tribute band

jade plover
#

Why is it a plot hole?

feral viper
#

Plote HOLES, plural.

jade plover
#

But where are these holes?

feral viper
#

I'll rant about it on break.

shell swan
feral viper
#

Mostly negative

shell swan
#

Yeah, there's a fair bit

feral viper
#

Alright, to the point of the Dark Brotherhood. I won't pick at the style, individual mission problems, canon conflicts, or terrible characters. I'll just stick with Plot Holes.

Why? Because Plot Holes aren't subjective. Narratives follow formulaic structures, and plot holes are explicitly defined as issues within the sequence of events or narrative beats which conflict with the logic of the story.

Whether it bothers you or not, a plot hole remains a plot hole.

#

Now, the first plot hole is the ability to track the PC. Being able to find you after you've commited a murder, anywhere, for any reason, no matter how far you've traveled or where it's happened, is literally the first beat of the narrative.

Except for when you're actively working FOR the Brotherhood. Then you can vanish without a trace, going so far as to regularly pop back in to the Sanctuary without concern. All the while being hunted by the very same organisation that you're getting paid by.

#

The second plot hole is the Shade of Sithis. It's clearly established as a divine retribution for breaking the tenants, with the omniscience to know you've done it even if no one sees you, thus making the tenants a sacred oath.

Except, it doesn't apply to murdering fellow members under forged orders, or to the person forging those orders in the first place.

ESO had to retcon how it even works, requiring it to be actively summoned to seek out a transgressor. Which doesn't really make things better, but at least allows you to file Oblivion under the 'Gameplay Jank' category instead of straight plot holes.

#

The third major plothole is the fact the Black Hand let's you live.

Just... Why? I mean, we KNOW why, it's the same reason Sheogorath is a silly old man. Because killing the player doesn't make for a playable story. But there is ZERO reason for the Black Hand to leave you alive, or have you perform the Rite of Purification.

#

We also learn, right at the end, that the Night Mother knew who the imposter was the whole time, but apparently never told the Listener beforehand. Probably because if anyone acted rationally the plot would never happen.

#

This is a general chronic problem with Oblivion's factions. Of the 4, only the Mages Guild isn't full of plot holes that make it fall apart with even the slightest scrutiny.

And the Mages Guild turned Manni into a clown, so... It's got its own problems.

jade plover
#

Its still fun to play, most elder scrolls quests have this kind of plot holes and ireational behaviour

jade plover
#

Elder scrolls lore get some retcons in every game, its not the type of a game where plot must be cinematic and logical. Its a game where you go into the world and do stuff. Most plots in elder scrolls are not logical but why people like it is because its just fun to do. People say db in oblivion is one of the best questlines because

  1. Plot twist
  2. Different ways to kill target
  3. Interesting dialogues between npc
shell swan
#

I fail to see how the first is a plot point; the Night Mother knows where you are, same way she knows it for other contracts and the like.

Also, why would this be a plot point for when you are part of it? It becomes clear why the Night Mother enabled Matthieu to go along with his plan - to reform the Brotherhood.

jade plover
#

Btw how do members of db in skyrim knows about people who perform a ritual without a listener?

feral viper
feral viper
# shell swan I fail to see how the first is a plot point; the Night Mother knows where you ar...

And does nothing to facilitate finding you.

And no, she doesn't. She actively chastises the remaining Black Hand for bringing the traitor into her own sanctum. She KNOWS, but she does nothing even though she's actively opposed to his goal.

Post hoc rationalizations of the nonsense doesn't address the nonsense. It's just an effort in trying to justify your enjoyment of bad storytelling..

#

She also doesn't reform squat.

shell swan
#

I mean, why would they have to find you? Night Mother wishes for it to continue in order to reform the Black Hand. The Hand itself goes after Lachance.

And yeah, she does nothing... and she explains why she did nothing.

silver turret
#

On skyrim it says I am a vampire and my face didn't change and I cured myself

feral viper
# shell swan I mean, why would they have to find you? Night Mother wishes for it to continue ...

Because Lechance is trying to save his own hide. He's the only one ever indicated to find you, not the Nightmother. In fact, the Nightmothor isn't indicated to be involved in recruitment at all.

So, at BEST, if you take the Nightnothers comments after the fact at face value (which are at odds with her chastising when she's initially summoned) then you can slink around one plot hole. Though only partially, because she doesn't actually reform diddly, she just reinstates the status quo with new butts in seats.

feral viper
#

Now, none of this is to say Skyrim is much better. In this particular regard, it's DB questline only works if you interpret it as Mede orchestrating his own hit.

But that, on its face, is absurd and unlikely. Which means it's far more likely to just be another plothole ridden but of nonsense.

shell swan
#

Of course Lachance is after you - he is being framed for the murder of the Black Hand.

Lachance's lines do indicate that the Night Mother is involved in the recruitment process.

feral viper
#

I disagree. But whatever, I'm not going to pull apart every line to dissect just how bad it is.

Especially given the plotholes are only part of the whole problem. The DB in particular is just a microcosm for the writing quality issues of TES as a whole.

jade plover
#

elder scrolls never had a cool story. cool lore yes, cool stories in it no. so i don't really understand what is the problem

#

oblivion has the most intersting quests in series because it has an actual stories behind it and not just go there and kill that

tawdry copper
#

idk I think oblivion had some cool stories... except the fighters guild... That guild was always garbage to me. idk why.

jade plover
#

but yes it is not a witcher

#

and will never be

feral viper
jade plover
#

idk check the lore chat, dudes are telling really crazy stuff there

feral viper
#

I left the lore chat for a reason.

#

All that's really left is the style of RPG and Open World that characterizes Bethesda.

And while others have started to infiltrate that niche, none have quite managed to do what Bethesda does. Even if Bethesda's own executions tend to be haphazard.

tawdry copper
#

Bro telling everyone "I left fore a reason." sounds kinda edgy. "I didn't do fighters guild for a reason." Probably because no one there uses magic.

jade plover
#

and KCD is inspired by oblivion

feral viper
#

So, I muted the Lore channel and ignore it completely. The setting is dead as far as I'm concerned, and unless something radical changes, is of no further value.

The games still have mechanical value however.

#

TES in particular, as while I like Fallout, and enjoyed Starfield, neither had the mechanical foundation that TES has offered.

A foundation that I maintain could make a truely revolutionary RPG, REGARDLESS of what setting it's in, if refined correctly.

jade plover
#

they cant make all provinces be like morrowind tho because they described in lore as kind of usual human settlments, they can do something unique if they will make a game about Elsewyr, Valenwood, Black Marsh, Akavir or random oblivion planes

feral viper
#

They haven't made ANYTHING even remotely like Morrowind. Even Daedric Planes.

tawdry copper
#

Art style?

jade plover
#

and since they will show two last human provinces in TES 6 there will be no choice but to make something completely different in TES 7

jade plover
feral viper
# tawdry copper Art style?

Art style, blending of influences in the lore and cultures, narrative nuance, themes, political depth, all of it.

jade plover
#

Apocrypha in eso is cool too

tight charm
#

I don’t understand why you continue to participate in a channel about a franchise you have little but contempt for. Why feed that in your own mind? It’s far from healthy.

feral viper
jade plover
#

i liked shivering isles because it has explanaiton to almost everything what happens in there, which makes it believable

feral viper
tawdry copper
#

Well, majority of elder scrolls is mostly daedra or gods now that I think about it. Daggerfall had you meet sheogorath in atherus. Who is guarding the mantella.

Eso - Molag
Battle spire - Dagon
Azura in Morrowind being salty at the tribunal and dagoth ur.
Oblivion - Dagon stopping all daedric invasions.
Skyrim - Wyvern angry that can be killed by special human only and no one else.

pulsar root
#

All I'm going to say on ES's storys/lore its not perfect I can find things I dislike but I like most of it. I dislike Dragonborne DLC cause you are sorta placed into a position where you serve a daedric prince(Same as Shivering Isle DLC, I also dislike that to).

I understand it might make a better ending but doesn't mean I like it. That said that doesn't mean the journey before it was just as bad.

feral viper
#

I think it's English specifically. Everywhere else, there wasn't an actual clear cut rule

tight charm
tawdry copper
tight charm
#

So they’re like vampires and need to be welcomed in? =P

feral viper
feral viper
tawdry copper
feral viper
tight charm
#

Okay, well, now I just feel bad for you.

tawdry copper
tight charm
#

Not that. XD

tawdry copper
shell swan
#

You could say it turns into a... dragonfly

#

🥁 padum tss

jade plover
feral viper
# tight charm Okay, well, now I just feel bad for you.

I was being facetious. I'm actually quite happy, more so now that I'm not bottling things up and actively articulate my criticisms.

I just like to make sure that I can explain the why's. Which is why I try to focus on objective things, like mechanics, and clear structural issues.

Such as plot holes.

#

Because these are things that can be improved regardless of personal taste.

feral viper
#

Ultimately, I want to see progress. Even if I think the setting is tacky and bland, I can still push for better stories within it. I don't have to even LIKE those stories, all I want to see is better quality.

Hell, Starfield was ALSO bland and generic. But it's stories were actively better in basically every way. And they should be applauded for that.

You can't let perfection get in the way of progress, but you also shouldn't let enjoyment block improvement.

night ember
#

honestly found just about every aspect of that game horrific, it's what stopped me from trying out their other games for so long lol

#

and I do def still find the setting interesting, esp because that kind of classic pastoral fantasy just doesn't exist anymore in popular entertainment and is contrasted with what I understand to be the remnants of kirkbride lore

feral viper
#

I've been negative enough today to really go into detail as to why I disagree.

Though I will agree, they aren't good. But structurally, they're better, and they're told better.

#

Starfield has a lot of problems, yes. But it's storytelling (not the stories themselves) is probably Bethesda's best.

night ember
#

I think bethesda's writing also has a kind of "innocence" to it that slams against realistic science fiction disastrously, while melding much better with fantasy or a 50s scifi world

night ember
#

unless you don't wanna go into it, I'm down to hear your negativity lol

feral viper
#

The structure, the way information is given, and the way character motivations contribute to the plot and it's resolution.

#

The Vanguard is probably the best, though Ryujin is also a good example (aside from the hand-waving magic plot point).

night ember
#

interesting, I guess it's been a while but from my memory that stuff is nearly identical. Like optional dialogue options have some obvious foreshadowing thrown in and maybe you'll meet an npc who explains the first one tricked you into doing an evil deed

#

and ofc people awkwardly walking around and delivering lines as is tradition

feral viper
#

Oh, I don't put much stock in the whole 'Your choices matter' nonsense. I think that actively makes stories worse anyway.

night ember
#

honestly if CC could just add animation smoothing and like more seamless walk cycles we could be cooking

night ember
feral viper
#

That's fair, I'm not saying it was GOOD, of course. Writing has never been Bethesda's strong point.

#

In fact, I think making magic out of barely functional scrap is their real talent.

There's no reason why their games should be as enjoyable as they are. They're buggy, poorly made messes at the best of times. But somehow, the fact that they throw so much at the wall, even if most of it is half baked, results in something that sticks out more than the vast majority of much more refined games.

#

Despite my apparent negativity, I often say that is Bethesda could figure out how to polish their games, without losing the 'magic', they would easily make the best RPGs going. And it wouldn't even be up for debate.

pulsar root
#

The writing in Starfield wasn't bad minus the spoilers I'm not getting into but it being spread across multiple planets/world spaces. ES games don't need to worry about that.

Thankfully.

night ember
#

I dunno I thought it was like worse I've heard in an AAA game in a while tier

feral viper
#

The stories were, for the most part, mediocre.

However, the structure. Inciting Incident, Rising Action, Climax, Resolution, as well as the the characterisations of the actors involved, was some of Bethesda's best.

#

Except for the Rangers, whose questline was just garbage end to end.

night ember
# feral viper In fact, I think making magic out of barely functional scrap is their real talen...

the conclusion I've come to is that all those mechanics being encased in a seamless*** world is what makes the experience work. Because none of those systems really have an endpoint or really much mastery, when you get to the end and find nothing you become furious. Which is why starfield was so negatively received but with a delay. People are used to bethesda games sinking their claws into you more and more and this one did the opposite. To make up for that absence they'd have to, like you say, make their mechanics actually mesh together. which would require a design document lmao

feral viper
#

But, this has all been part of a general trend with Bethesda, where we've seen consistent improvement in their storytelling since Oblivion.

Skyrim's stories were better structured, but INCREDIBLY brisk and rushed.

FO4 was structured, but better paced, though suffered from poor characterisation.

Starfield was well structured, well paced, and had good characterisation.

Unfortunately, the generally poor writing brings everything down as well.

night ember
pulsar root
#

I mean you can call it that but that seems like major exageration.

night ember
#

I also don't know if conventional storytelling structure is best applied to a bethesda game, if that makes the things it's trying to do more interesting or whatever.

#

rather we had another weird guy who knew how to write interesting stories rather then them trying to find the structure that will hide their generic prose the best

night ember
feral viper
#

And Ithelia was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, with the setting.

night ember
#

I don't even remember that lol

feral viper
#

Oh man... And Shattered Space...

I'll admit, as much as I hate Shivering Isles, at least it isn't Shattered Space.

night ember
#

lmao the mod cares about the s word? this is exactly what I'm talking about

harsh crown
feral viper
#

Yeah, as a general rule, if you couldn't say it in class, don't say it here.

#

Though maybe I'm showing my age, with what words were acceptable in school...

dim reef
#

Not at all lol

feral viper
#

Even Hell was pushing it when I was in highschool

night ember
#

or at least the old ones

feral viper
#

It's more about the public access of the community. The games may be rated, but the discord is not.

#

So we have to be aware of, potentially, users who aren't even in the ESRB age-group to play most of the games.

harsh crown
night ember
#

hopefully that means the contrast between the two will increase with your next entry

feral viper
#

Humorously, a forum I've been a member of for over 20 years now has a profanity filter that changes any of the preset words into something absurd, like Beslubering or Methamphetamine Parrot.

night ember
#

regardless is eso worth checking out? was thinking about it after skyrim

feral viper
#

I would say yes.

night ember
#

oh is ithalia the multiverse girl? that part seemed particularly brutal but I don't know too much

feral viper
#

Yeah, she is. And I won't say more on that matter, lest we go back into the doom spiral.

And not the fun, Dark Ages demon killing kind.

night ember
#

I don't know anything, but from what I read it kinda seemed like it wasn't definitive? because that is very doomer

feral viper
#

But, as far as ESO goes, despite my current opinion on the setting as a whole, I still think ESO is the best addition to the setting and worldbuilding since Morrowind. In terms of sheer quantity, it's has added more than basically every other game combined, AND it's a lot more consistent in quality than either Oblivion or Skyrim.

night ember
#

love all these pop culture writers acting like multiverses are hype when it's like the lowest tier of metaphysical nuance you could come up with

night ember
#

songs of pelinal is a stone cold classic

feral viper
hidden herald
feral viper
#

And I hope people enjoy it. I'm clearly not the target audience anymore, so I'll keep on elsewhere.

#

But, I've played a lot of MMOs over the last 2 decades. And on whole, I'd rate ESO in the top 5.

night ember
feral viper
#

Take the inspiration were you find it.

#

I was recently inspired to convert a squad of Night Lord sisters... And I hate the Night Lords (degenerate scum, the lot of them). So even things we hate can sometimes inspire.

potent oxide
#

Im sure this is old news to a lot of people since it has been true for 130 days now, but I only just ran the numbers and realized

There has been more time between the ES6 announcement and now, than it was between Skyrim's release and when the ES6 trailer first dropped

#

And we are still likely a number of years away from another announcement, so wild to me

feral viper
#

Hah... That's kinda hilarious.

potent oxide
#

At this rate I've only got another 3 or 4 elder scrolls in my lifetime, and im still young lol

feral viper
#

Look, I finally got new Legacy of Kain stuff. You still have hope.

pulsar root
#

Unfortunate but ES needs to cook.

feral viper
#

Especially given that, even half baked, it's still going to be a hit

potent oxide
#

Oh yeah absolutely, and I have no doubt it'll be phenomenal when it releases, just wild to really see how insane modern game dev times have grown before our eyes(and also just how far in advance they decided to announce the game lol)

#

Since ES3 and 4 had 4 years between them, ES4 and 5 had 5 years between them, and that was even with bethesda having project between them as well just like they do now, its really ballooned

tawny cove
#

@scarlet patio obey our argonian overlord

scarlet patio
#

Hear me out… what if TES6 received DLC where each expansion added a new part of Tamriel. It’ll also give Bethesda an excuse to release TES6: Skyrim

tawny cove
#

Pie in the sky. I don't even expect TES6 to exist before I retire. And I'm only 30.

scarlet patio
#

Ngl I don’t expect to see TES6 until I turn 30

tawny cove
#

Depends what you mean, I was only a year old when they made Arena. And I was playing Morrowind on my xbox at about 11 or 12

#

Then they made Oblivion when I was about 13 or 14

scarlet patio
hidden herald
#

Kid Icarus says hi

scarlet patio
#

Like I’m in my mid 20s right now and I’ve never really experienced an elder scrolls release since I wasn’t into RPGs yet at the time of Skyrims release

tawny cove
#

Skyrim dropped when I was ohhh 18-19 and now they've been stuck there and I'm pushing 32

#

That's the funny part really lol

#

over a decade without a new title. I guess that's why my expectations aren't there

tawny cove
scarlet patio
#

It’s because Bethesda makes one game at a time and they went and made FO4, FO76 and Starfield before they even got to TES6… plus COVID-19… kinda sucks but TES6 is next in line now

tawny cove
#

It'll probably be the last hoorah I expect.

#

So I hope it's a good one.

pulsar root
#

Last game headed by Todd perhaps but not the last ES game.

tawny cove
#

Life's not the same without Godd Todd

#

I have a poster of the only picture of him that exists above my bed so I know I am safe when I sleep

scarlet patio
#

I’m rather optimistic about TES6. A lot of the issues with Starfield mostly stem from the game being very different conceptually compared to their other games since they wanted to allow us to go everywhere IN SPACE with WHOLE PLANETS to explore. The other elements that were more consistent with the Bethesda TES/Fallout experience were done very well imo. The side quests had more variety in terms of how you could complete them/get alternate endings and the faction questlines were also very engaging. TES6 is likely to be Bethesda returning to what they know best and if they implement the improvements they made to Starfield in terms of quest design while creating a huge and engaging handcrafted world to explore, I think TES6 will be a banger

feral viper
#

My optimism died in November. Not that I had a whole lot of it to begin with, always been more of a realist...

#

But, from several standpoints, I think multiple provinces are a mistake, even if it's a fun idea.

scarlet patio
pulsar root
#

As in They do X Province like say Highrock and Hammerfel or other two provinces. Some have speculated(No evidence really).

feral viper
#

Tamriel is divided up, regionally, into provinces. Functionally they're really nations, but due to their classification under the Empire everyone just uses Provinces.

#

So, Skyrim is one province. Cyrodill is another. Morrowind another. Etc.

scarlet patio
#

Ahh yep. Multiple provinces may help diversify the map though. Instead of having snow-heavy map with Skyrim or desert heavy map with Hammerfell, you add high rock or smth and maje the world feel more diverse and capture the feel of moving to a new nation when you move from province to province

#

I have a feeling though that if Starfield was successful, Bethesda would’ve decided to put TES6 in the entirety of Tamriel and used Starfield’s proc-generation to generate the whole Tamriel map but I think SURELY they realise that if it wasn’t received well in a game where it makes sense to do it (Starfield), it won’t be received well if done to their most beloved franchise (TES)

feral viper
#

It's worth noting, that Starfield WAS successful. Despite the complaints, legitimate or otherwise it was a successful game.

pulsar root
#

I think they should just stick to one province or specific region. Its what they do best. Also not all of Skyrim was snow heavy. I admit some landscapes are more appealing(Anything that isn't a desert is good)

feral viper
#

Yeah, I think it's easy to forget the sheer size of these territories. They're nowhere near to-scale, and even at their smallest they're they size of some large US states, or European Countries.

So there's a lot of range you can fit into them, without actually having to go to different provinces.

scarlet patio
feral viper
#

Probably 3 million copies. Which would be the equivalent of $210m

#

And that's just spiralling, I'm sure the numbers are actually higher.

night ember
night ember
onyx fable
#

IMO i think Skyrim looks better than Oblivion Remaster (not the original) in terms of resolution quality of textures and just overall how everything looks...yea the new models look good beacuse thats about it. The sheer amount of FOG in the dungeons is incredible compared to every other BGS title.

radiant moss
#

I don't really know how you came to this opinion. There's an argument to be made regarding art style (but High Fantasy, and Oblivion included, have always been regarded as generic), but OBR trumps quality of texturing MILES above Skyrim in basically every department. Unless what you meant by "resolution quality" is the art style.

void stone
#

Hey! I was just thinking of suggesting, if Jeremy souls isn’t doing the music for elder scrolls 6, it would be a cool alternative to see if sawano hiroyuki would. He is the guy who wrote all the music for: attack on titan, solo leveling, aldnoah, seven deadly sins, and more!

potent oxide
steel loom
primal olive
#

I want them to do away with races and go with cultures instead that determine "racial" skills ngl

#

an Altmer of the imperial city is not like an Altmer of Alinor

jade plover
#

It only make sense with skills that anyone can have like "voice of emperor" or whatever they call it. But what about skills derermined by racial biology?

primal olive
jade plover
#

Supermacy of what?

primal olive
#

I'd keep them there as the niche benefits like slight fire resistance or cold resistance

spark heart
#

Yeah racial bonuses/stats make sense, trying to say everything should be culturally based doesn’t really make sense, I could see if it for an additional bonus/stat or let’s say sub class bonus

primal olive
#

of course there should be some bonus like that

#

but I think like the origin system in oblivion but expanded would be nice

jade plover
#

You mean background bonuses they added in remaster?

primal olive
#

pelinal was a gets smothered by moths

spark heart
#

If anything they should prob bring back the Daggerfall background questions or something a bit more thought out. I’m always down for more RPG mechanics rather then less like they’ve done since Morrowind

jade plover
#

Based

primal olive
feral viper
#

Like, why the hell are Hlaalu, Twlvanni and Redoran Dunmer exactly the same? They're barely even Ancestor Worshippers, THAT'S more of a straight Ashlander thing.

primal olive
#

I don't like how playing Altmer just makes you take more damage even though they're supposed to be better with magic ngl

jade plover
spark heart
#

But Skyrim sold the most because it was the laziest hand holding game by them, so KISS keep it simple stupid wins over trying to be innovative. Just put out mindless slop to reach the masses

feral viper
feral viper
jade plover
#

Skyrim at least doesnt look so much generic

primal olive
pulsar root
#

ES doesn't need to be Warhammer.

feral viper
spark heart
#

Skyrim isn’t an RPG, it’s an action, adventure & exploration sand box with some RPG elements & Oblivion was a bargain basement, just passes mustard to be called a RPG

feral viper
#

Except for their legal department. Holy beslubering gopher holes, GWs legal department is like the SS

primal olive
spark heart
#

Bethesda’s lore is whatever is convenient for current game

primal olive
feral viper
spark heart
primal olive
#

I'm so tired I got two hours of sleep I feel bleh lol

feral viper
primal olive
#

Oblivion has the recency bias so I cannot comment on it fairly

spark heart
primal olive
#

Morrowind is kinda just "the prophecy might be true if you do that stuff lol"

feral viper
#

It depends how you define RPG.

I use a definition pioneered by @eager remnant .

Paraphrased, an RPG is any game where the outcomes of any individual action are determined more by the Characters Skill, rather than the Players Skill.

#

Both Skyrim, and Oblivion qualify. so do JRPGs in fact, which is a common definition sticking point in discourse.

jade plover
primal olive
#

dracula hurts my brain

nimble pond
#

If we get our own castles or forts, I'm going to form my army full of mudcrabs.

feral viper
primal olive
#

HA

feral viper
primal olive
nimble pond
#

Hundreds

feral viper
#

I do think, however, that Skyrim offers the best foundation for a truely remarkable RPG. It just didn't use it's underlying mechanics efficiently to showcase its potential.

#

But that's a chronic problem in Bethesda games. Brilliant ideas, poor execution.

jade plover
feral viper
#

I don't think they do. They just don't know how to actually achieve what they want.

#

Bjt, back to work

primal olive
#

Skyrim feels like foundations in the same way Starfield does

#

they almost made something compelling but left it like unpainted cardboard

primal olive
jade plover
#

And starfield is way more simple than morrowind

primal olive
#

because it had the same issues as Skyrim yes

#

but the intent with it feels more like they wanted something complex, they just couldn't do it, it's like how sometimes with my autism I struggle to get the intended thing out

jade plover
#

Im not sure about it. If they want to make games harder and add more deep mechanics they would just do it

pulsar root
#

No. Skyrim didn't have to deal with multiple world spaces or planets. Its very different then the Bethesda formula.

jade plover
#

And this is exactly why people dislike it

primal olive
#

ok man

#

anyway with Starfield they wanted to make worlds feel diverse and whatnot but in the end it feels stale and repetitive, I think had they roped themselves in and forced themselves to smaller scale and more custom whatnot it'd felt better

jade plover
#

It sounds like a bad idea. You cant make diverse worlds if your initial intention is to make kind of realistic space

#

And it doesnt matter what kind of tecnology and knowledge they will use, realistic space is not diverse and not fun. Grey rocks or brown rocks are still just rocks. If people want realistic space they play realistic games like Elite. All they had to do to make starfield better is to make at least 100 planets instead of 1000. And make like 30-40% of them inhabited. And add aliens

primal olive
#

less worlds but more handcrafted and loved, less random poi and copy-paste trash mobs

#

I might criticize Bethesda a lot but at the end of the day they're my favorite company on earth I love their games so much

pulsar root
#

100 planets would still suffer from the same issue, aliens wouldn't fix it either and thats not what they wanted for Starfield

But I rather skirt towards ES so mods don't bite me.

primal olive
#

Ima keep talking about snow elves so we see more lore form them

gloomy anchor
primal olive
#

although I'm just gonna make up my own based on what we know in the meantime tbh

#

like for example

jade plover
#

Write it in a lore chat. This chat is for ranting about bethesda games so they will fix issues

primal olive
#

I personally believe the Snow Elves, like the Ayleids, are not gone at all for one

primal olive
gloomy anchor
feral viper
#

Well, ranting about TES games specifically in the hopes that they fix the issues.

#

As I've said, if I thought Fallout or Starfield were better foundations for future RPGs, I'd be down there instead.

But I maintain that Skyrim is the best starting point, so I'm here.

jade plover
#

Maybe MS should just buy warhorse and combine them with bethesda and arcane in one team.
We will get a really ultimate rpg that will become a game of the decade

primal olive
jade plover
#

Why not

primal olive
#

I want Bethesda stuff from Bethesda, not Microsoft stuff

jade plover
#

Makes sense

#

But i think they could help each other

potent oxide
#

My Initial hope for starfield was to have like 5 planets each with their own handcrafted set regions to explore. Think that's what I would have preferred lol, but eh. Hyped for a return to full-handcrafted in ES6

jade plover
#

im not sure but i think only morrowind was fully handcrafted, they really love procedural generation. so it depends on how much are they going to use it

#

btw do you remember they said starfield has the biggest amount of handcrafted content among their games? well, starfield has 89 POIs and skyrim has more than 450

potent oxide
#

89? Is that real?

pulsar root
#

Sigh Its all spread out, over various planets. Oblivion, Skyrim are all on one world space and outside of loading screen for a different city, these locations you can find are relatively close and still for the most part handcrafted.

jade plover
# potent oxide 89? Is that real?

unique yes, and about 37 of them can spawn on different planes multiple times with different enemies inside or different furniture

potent oxide
#

Yeah having to directly seek out handcrafted content makes it feel less impactful to me, I loved stumbling upon crazy cool stuff randomly, was a huge part of bethesda games to me

potent oxide
jade plover
#

you can check them here

feral viper
#

Starfield had a lot of problems, right down to the conflict between theme and gameplay, that I think are legitimate concerns for TES. Even if the scale is radically different.

#

And these are issues that need to be looked at and addressed on a leadership side, in order to prevent their repetition

#

But they're also relatively general points which only really use Starfield as a reference. I can also use Oblivion for that, and Skyrim.

primal olive
#

I think the moths in Skyrim were cool

#

and also the Falmer obviously, I like that Gelebor doesn't hold resentment towards the Nords for what their ancestors did tbh

feral viper
#

Right, to the point and in detail.

I think a major problem with Starfield, is that it refused to commit to the bit. They made a big statement about wanting Space to feel vast, and to try to replicate the feeling of the first astronauts on the moon and the sense of awe and exploration...

Then they back peddled and clung to the 60 Second Rule. That being, players need something to draw their attention every 60 seconds, or they get bored.

This meant filling that vast, unknowable expanse with constant things to do. Land on a brand new, unexplored moon? Within 1 minute, you'll see another ship, or stumble upon a prefab research base, or find a crash site, etc.

Skyrim is supposed to be the ancient, harsh, frozen north, where life is hard and people are proud. Except, it's mostly temperate, it's people are moody and complain constantly, and it's ancient heritage is little more than window dressing.

Oblivion is... Well, a jumbled mess. It's art style is Disney, it's music melancholic, it's stories apocalyptic. Oblivion has no idea what it wants to be, let alone tries to BE it.

prisma summit
#

Anyone here into ESO? I've tried to get into it multiple times but there's something there that doesn't click for me and idk what

primal olive
feral viper
#

I was and enjoyed it for many years. But it's not for everyone.

You shouldn't feel bad for it not clicking.

primal olive
#

yeah lol it ain't for everyone

#

too MMO y at times tbf and I'm cp 1500+

prisma summit
#

I figured! Its just that I've looked it up and its apparently one of the least MMO-y MMOs, and I love me some elder scrolls lol maybe the genre just isn't for me

feral viper
#

MMOs are an entirely different beast. They're not for everyone.

#

Anyway, I think there are legitimate thematic concerns for TES, depending on where they go. Because, traditionally, these elements have been chickened out on by Bethesda in favour of more orthodox gameplay conventions, ultimately resulting in unfocused and even detrimental results.

If we're looking at Hammerfell, for instance, and the 'Theme' is the harshness of the Sahara... Well, if you slap an oasis every 500m, or don't have any shifting sands, or even just allow for easy navigation, you're going to lose that very quickly.

#

And then all you have is a shallow litter box biome with no character, that actively feels like a parody rather than evoking any serious lasting feelings.

silver turret
#

I wonder when elder scrolls 6 will be released

feral viper
#

Sometime between 5 minutes from now, and the heat death of the universe

silver turret
#

Also does elder scrolls online still get content?

prisma summit
#

I just hope we actually get it on ps lol

primal olive
feral viper
primal olive
night ember
primal olive
night ember
primal olive
#
  • subclassing is coming out
feral viper
primal olive
feral viper
#

Which is a chronic pet peeve of mine anyway. Even if you want to limit yourself to Muslim influences, there's a lot more than just Turkish Ottomans.

pulsar root
#

🤐

primal olive
#

speak your tongue light

night ember
#

you can't say the m word?

primal olive
#

what word

#

oh what's the issue with saying Muslim?? /genuine

night ember
#

I dunno you said speak your tongue light and wasn't sure what you meant lol

primal olive
night ember
#

oh haha

feral viper
#

I'm not special, so if I managed to say the word, anyone can. It's just the context in which it's used that will draw the Mods

night ember
#

if they do go in that direction I doubt you could even call it "muslim influence" as much as "aladdin influence"

#

since to go respectfully with the former would be inherently offensive to vast swaths of their audience

feral viper
#

But I've said for years, Hammerfell will just be Arabian Nights: Tamriel edition.

pulsar root
#

Mostly just I don't think whatever influences they use will just be "Oh its just fantasy arabics"

Though I do think for anything related to the Empire, having roman influences is fine but it shouldn't be the only influence, do some creative Fantasy stuff.

primal olive
#

Nords feel so simplified and bland compared to how they're described in Morrowind and previous games

feral viper
#

Which is whatever. Deep and meaningful worlds may be what Bethesda advertises, but it's not what they deliver.

Innovative (if janky and poorly refined) gameplay and open sandbox playgrounds are what they actually do.

But that comes with thematic considerations as well, as I said..

#

Decide on a bit, and commit to it. And build the game AROUND it. Don't chicken out half way through because you don't trust ADHD players to not have something shiny to distract themselves every 60 seconds.

silver turret
primal olive
#

Bethesda feels like indie games but big

feral viper
#

A more isolated example of this problem, from Starfield, is the Rangers.

The bit is 'Be a cop'. Great. Cool idea, even if it's burdened by the Texas Ranger, Cowboy nonsense.

But when you actually get to it... Can you arrest people? No. Can you investigate crimes? Not really. Is there any sort of active policing action? Naw man, you're basically a sanctioned executioner that shoots people.

#

Think about the actual bit, or bits, and really dig into them. Build the systems you need to explore them. Don't just use windowdressing.

primal olive
#

so true

#

I just want more lore

night ember
#

is there anyone there who really gets it anymore? it was pretty much just kuhlmann and kirkbride wasn't it?

jade plover
night ember
jade plover
jade plover
night ember
#

They would never take it to that extent obviously, but therein lies the dilemma

jade plover
#

Honestly i dont understand you at all

night ember
# jade plover Honestly i dont understand you at all

what's confusing about what I'm saying? They want to draw from a rich culture for their next game, but part of why that culture is interesting is its incompatibility with the western values they've been whitewashing their games with for years

jade plover
#

Taking inspiration is not copiyng a culture. Redguards are not muslims they just have similar architecture

#

And what is whitewashing?

livid ingot
#

I want the Redguard design to wholeheartedly embrace designs rooted on the African continent, tbh. There is some prescedent for it too. Yeah, mix it with influences from Japan or Iran or whatnot. Ideally there would be no single dominant influence (e.g. the Dunmer from TES:3), but I'm unsure the chances of that happening.

primal olive
#

Redguard aren't just African!!! they're also asian inspired but modern games always fail to show it

#

they're partially meant to be people who showed up genocided natives and took over

night ember
# jade plover And what is whitewashing?

we were just talking about what they did to the nords in skyrim. They wouldn't even be controversial to adapt in modern times but they neutered their lore anyways. I can see something like that but to an even greater extent happening to the redguards

livid ingot
jade plover
night ember
primal olive
#

thar and they're based off of whatever the black panthers are

night ember
#

like the party or the superhero

#

would be lowkey hilarious if they were the only race in tamriel with cellphones and planes

primal olive
#

not the hero

jade plover
night ember
jade plover
#

Ah i see

livid ingot
night ember
#

or at least with the goal of appealing to a wider audience, upsetting less people, etc. You could say slopify as well ig

jade plover
#

But was there anything controversal about nords?

primal olive
night ember
jade plover
#

So we will never see cannibals if they ever make a game about valenwood

#

We have cannibals in skyrim though

night ember
#

they're not potentially offensive to anybody, which is what they're terrified of

jade plover
#

If you make a game for everyone if ends up to be for no one

night ember
#

yet they keep doing it

pulsar root
jade plover
night ember
primal olive
#

starfield feels empty and dead to me I don't really like the setting that much

jade plover
#

Thats why i made that message with tips

night ember
primal olive
#

it's a good concept but feels generic

#

"space stuff that is probably science! but it MIGHT NOT BE 😲"

night ember
pulsar root
#

My thoughts reside with the Starfield chat. That is...if I were to go back 😅

gloomy anchor
primal olive
#

I love how Tiber Septim is enamored with guar apparently

feral viper
#

Too lacking in colour and definitive patterns.

ESO's Hammerfell is probably the best indicator, and it's was just... Incredibly bland. Not outright boring, like Highrock, of actively infuriating, like Valenwood. But the predictable dry toast of style.

night ember
#

I thought they had intentionally avoided the province

feral viper
#

Morrowind? Nah.

#

Tiber tried to invade at least twice. Ended up signing a treaty that gave the province greater autonomy in exchange for Numidium, and mining rights.

Because Tiber had a tendency of massive population culls and enforced theocratic conversion to the Imperial Cult.

night ember
#

I meant zenimax had intentionally avoided hammerfell as it was the likely setting of tes6

feral viper
#

Oooh, nah. Half of the province was in ESO at release.

#

With a further area opened by an expansion. Ash'aba or something.

#

I doubt anything was actually off limits, as ESO literally goes to every province.

austere oasis
#

I pre ordered ESO because I was excited to see Black Marsh represented properly boy was I disappointed

feral viper
#

I think it was about as good as we were ever going to get.

At least the Argonians lore was on the better side.

pulsar root
#

The detail from a mainline game and a MMO which is always scaled down to an extent should be noted.

feral viper
#

But the style for swamps is pretty universally 'Brown, mud, slime'. Doesn't matter what setting, doesn't matter whose doing it.

Except for GW. Because if they can make a new model to sell out of it, they'll give you fluorescent purple turtle riding Goblins on swamp-cocaine.

austere oasis
#

I never played the other factions when I did play so I didn't get to see the other stuff but I thought ESO did Morrowind and Skyrim pretty decent

feral viper
#

Morrowind was pretty good. Skyrim was alright. Blackmarsh was good lore, terrible aesthetics.

Highrock was a snore fest, Hammerfell was dull, and Wrothgar was mediocre.

Summerset was a waste, Valenwood was actively insulting, and Elsweyr was fantastic.

#

Somewhat ironically, ESO did the absolute best with the 2 groups that Bethesda always seems to avoid.

austere oasis
#

I liked seeing Cyrodil again that was fun and different don't have much to say about it

jade plover
feral viper
#

Hammerfell gets like, 2 whole zones..

jade plover
night ember
#

also wtf is up with that little slice of elsewhyr, why they do that

#

bothers me so much lol

jade plover
austere oasis
jade plover
#

I was always question that it looks so weird

primal olive
jade plover
#

They have the same in cyrodil. There is an empty space between niben and blackwood, there are no cities or villages so it can be expanded as dlc, why did they left it?

#

And place at north from necrom, same thing

#

I wonder when will they make winterhold, that would be very interesting

livid ingot
#

Talos is distinct from Lorkhan

jade plover
livid ingot
#

You wouldn't be able to tell the difference if it was mantling (like we see in Shivering Isles)

jade plover
#

As i remember thalos is a supersoul combines tiber septim, wulfheart, someone else and lorkhan power

#

Am i wrong?

feral viper
feral viper
jade plover
#

I wish i could send pics here

#

Let me check again

#

I see it clearly less than half

livid ingot
primal olive
jade plover
#

i sent in screenshots chat

primal olive
jade plover
#

so yes there are also skyrim left and black marsh than a less than half

primal olive
#

what

jade plover
#

so they may avoid hammerfell because it a land for new game, but i wouldnt know the reason to avoid skyrim and black marsh

primal olive
#

we just had Skyrim so we're not getting another Skyrim

jade plover
primal olive
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oh

jade plover
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but for some reason devs make new island again instead of showing us black marsh or hammerfell

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id want the whole dlc settled in Moonshadow

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that would be really cool, it the most interesting place in oblivion after shivering isles in my opinion

feral viper
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Alas, nothing they could do for Moonshadow would do it justice.

jade plover
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Why

feral viper
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It's supposed to be blindingly beautiful.

You can't make your players go blind.

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And they already showed that they don't even really care to inspire poetry with their art, based on Summerset, so...

jade plover
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But it can be just beautiful

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I liked cities in summerset, but not nature

primal olive
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oh you meant eso

jade plover
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It feels just like spain or italy, not elvish

primal olive
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yeah Winterhold is fine for ESO, but magic dlc fatigue is real

feral viper
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Summerset is neither magnificent enough to inspire poetry, nor sterile enough to inspire discomfort. It's safe, familiar repetition of mass-media elvish tropes and entirely undeserving of admiration artistically.

And you can never have too much magic. Magic just needs to feel magical.

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But that's been my beef with Daedric Planes as well. These aren't divine realms of expressed ideas. They're asset swapped mundane spaces.

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And ultimately, I don't expect a change in any of that. It's clear to me that Bethesda, and a sizable portion of the audience, wants those dull, boring, shallow and mundane locations.

Which, fine. Whatever. Mediocrity sells. But in that regard, I'd still like to see the most out of the mediocrity.

So stick with one province. Maintain focus. Establish the theme solidly and stick with it.

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And this goes a heck of a lot deeper than just visual styles. It requires a very clear idea of the stories you want to tell, and the activities you want to engage in as part of that theme.

Want to have a bounty hunter story? You HAVE to have systems to facilitate it. You can't just have 'murder everyone'.

Want a nautical element? You have to have sailing, not just fast travel to a destination.

Etc

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These aren't things you can just tack on at the end. They need to be fully integrated from the bottom up.

Otherwise you end up with nonsense like the Freestar Rangers.

primal olive
feral viper
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Based on what they said leading up to ESO Summerset's launch, Todd Howard wants TES mundane and not particularly magical. So Earth Rules are the go-to

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No matter how silly that sounds out loud..

primal olive
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you WILL like your human focused slop that demonizes elves

feral viper
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The specific context was along the lines of him saying that, if Magic were to just disappear tomorrow, most people wouldn't notice. Except for Summerset.

Which is just absurd and shows he doesn't really understand the setting anyway. As they made a world that is literally constructed from Magic. That would be like saying 'If Gravity disappeared tomorrow no one would notice'.

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Which I suppose is technically true, as we'd all cease to exist in an instant. Just like everything in TES would cease to exist if magic vanished.

primal olive
feral viper
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Right!?

Oh how i raged about that statement.

primal olive
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I don't want tes to end up like generic fantasy worlds I want it to stay weird like Warhammer tbh

feral viper
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But it explains many things.

primal olive
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it's part of why I hate the Breton knight from ESO, it's some random dude for a trailer that gaslit people into thinking wrong about the series

feral viper
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Weird, but not over the top like Warhammer.

And i say that as a Warhammer fan and player. Honestly, I also like AOS.

primal olive
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valid

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I do like how TES remains a bit more logical at times even with the writings of Kirkbride and Goodall, and the other one I forget

feral viper
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I'm actually in the process of catching up on years of neglected painting for Warhammer

pulsar root
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Minus the cosmic side being very vague and just....weird.

primal olive
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also TES is influenced heavily by Star wars / Star Trek which is funny

feral viper
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At least they understood them. Currently they can't even get the basic western Christian influences right.

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The Imperial Cult is an absolute disaster, the 'Dark Catholic' twist on the Brotherhood is just silly (and structurally wrong) and the constant aversion to functional polytheism is very tellingly of a modern monotheistic western perspective.

primal olive
feral viper
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Hell, you could even argue that the change to the Dwemer being amoral monsters is indicative deeper ideological biases

primal olive
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like usually I struggle if not a little bit but I know exactly what you mean

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dwemer are very stuck to the behavior of a "not" type of people or however Kirkbride described it

pulsar root
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I caught up on what Lorkhan is and...its wild. Some of it is interesting(Like the Aedra/Daedra angle is interesting.

primal olive
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Lorkhan possibly being a daedra and Nirn a realm of oblivion depending on interpretation is neat

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in a scholarly debatable way and not definitive truth, of course

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personally I think it's bull crap but it's valid nonetheless

pulsar root
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Yeah I don't subscribe to that at all. I do vibe with some god like entity sacrificing themselves so "mortal" life can exist.(I.E. Humans, Elves etc etc)

primal olive
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I do like the idea of him influencing the existence of mortals who aren't as bound to stuff as they are (wording this horribly) so that they might mantle the godhead or sumn bleh

feral viper
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The Dwemer used to border on Gnostic Atheist. They rejected the god claims of all deities in the setting, and sought the pursuit of truth. Whatever that was.

And that was it. Their entire schtick was the pursuit of understanding, and the creation of a tool to facilitate that by smashing through the lies.

primal olive
feral viper
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Then Skyrim came along, and seems to, at least in the surface level, lean hard into the 'Atheists have no morals' nonsense.

Which was a deeply problematic, if I suspect unintentional, change to their character.

primal olive
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DLCs not included; I love the Falmer portion of Dawnguard

feral viper
pulsar root
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i am not calling Skyrim a mistake.

Dwemer to me just struck to me as more "logical" and they arenot vibing with the idea of gods and such. And their disappearence was...not intentional.

primal olive