elder-scrolls-general-chat

[dim reef]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-tony-stark-gif-26471287

[nimble pond]

https://forums.pokemmo.com/uploads/monthly_2023_05/BabyishOldGelding-max-1mb.gif.46a182b2436c9622af131fab5f85e606.gif

[low stream]

I got a whole space at the second area with my doom char plateau. Anybody know where I can buy castle parts??

[feral viper]

More or less, though I'll add that I never found Oblivion to HAVE any charm in the first place.

But higher fidelity and the new filter stripping it of its weirdly Disney-esque palate and muting it to the same tones of basically every other game these days did it absolutely no benefits.

Like I said, it's technically well executed. The textures are good, the models are good, the actual execution of the art assets is excellent.

But it's Oblivion, already a souless dearth of style or creativity, now with an attempt at the muted browns and yellows we try to pass for realism today.

[manic narwhal]

Why do I have a feeling you never actually did any quests?

[feral viper]

I don't know, because you would be incredibly wrong.

I ALSO think Oblivion's quests are probably worse than it's style, and are meandering, nonsense stories full of so many plot holes that their popularity amongst players is only a testament to the absurdly low writing standards Gamers have.

But, those problems persist from the original, so I can't reasonably levy them at the remake.

Nor do I ever intend to actually play it, so I can't comment on any mechanical changes.

So, Visuals are all I can comment on. And they went Don Bluth instead Disney. Which, in cinema, would have been distinct, but in gaming... EVERYONE goes Don Bluth.

Well, I shouldn't say everyone... Nintendo often uses far more colourful and saturated palates...

[eager remnant]

I'm actually surprised by how much I like the changes to skills, attributes and perks. Old-style clesses are gone, replced by something closer to Skyrim's system. The UI is vastly improved, in my opinion. And, on a personal note, as someone who plays primarily in 3rd-person, a 3rd-person playstyle is actually viable now.

[feral viper]

As someone who has been privy to my positions and tastes on things for longer than most, you're probably better situated to tell me this @eager remnant. Do you think id enjoy the mechanical changes more than the original Oblivion?

[small sage]

you get 12 virtue points with you can use to raise physical stats with 1 point raising 1 point except in luck which requires 4 virtue points per 1

[feral viper]

Hmmm... At level? Or at the start?

Also, already Gaslight District has infiltrated my brain, because I saw Virtue and thought of this bugger

https://tenor.com/view/diligence-gaslight-district-opens-door-truck-hello-gif-5705131895455714292

[half igloo]

At each level

Same system tho with majoring major skills to level up

[feral viper]

See, always hated that. Oblivion's was the worst, because the way it tracked attribute increases actively discouraged specialisation, but the Major-Minor-Misc thing always rubbed me the wrong way

Without Classes and the Attribute Points though, maybe it's a better application of the idea.

[small sage]

level

[eager remnant]

I think you would like it better, but that might not be enough. The writing is still the same as ever. As to leveling and virtue points, in the remaster all skills contribute to character leveling, as in Skyrim. "Class" merely contributes starting bonuses to attributes and skills. Endurance is retroactive, eliminating the need for pumping up endurance as early as possible. Magic skill experience now scales with magicka cost (no more spamming low-level spells to level up a school). Merchantile levels up by value of transaction, so selling stacks of items awards the same experience as selling items individually. Here is a more completee breakdown: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Remastered_Leveling

[half igloo]

Huh that’s not what the tooltip says

I’ll screenshot it when I’m home from work - not saying it’s wrong but the tooltip still says major skills

[stable zodiac]

My main problem with levelling up in the OG was addressed: no longer do you have to avoid improving skills you do not want for fear of levelling up, which combined with the auto scaling made unoptimal builds very easy to fall into. Of course my second major gripe (auto scaling) is still here so yay bandits with daedric armour.

[dapper monolith]

Guys

Why i dont have the dlss anymore

[glass trench]

"Enemy scaling as the player increases their level has been adjusted."

So how exactly has the enemy scaling have been adjusted in comparison to the original game, does anyone know in more detail?

Thank you.

[plush island]

Can anyone explain well if it's worth it to become a vampire? I've been debating it for like 3 hours. I like the benefits but the sun damage is a killer

[austere oasis]

Anybody Played Redguard? Thinking about checking it out was curious on any opinions about it

[proud harbor]

I think it would be good to have remasters of Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind using Nightdive's KEX Engine.

[nimble pond]

I think it would be cool to do parallel TES universes as spinoffs to explore what would happen had things gone another way then in the original story. Perhaps in one of them, the Dwemer would still be around and the Nords completely extinct by Alduin's fire.

[feral viper]

It's definitely clunky, even when considering its age.

But if you can get past the mechanical datedness and sometimes baffling decisions, it's one of the best actual stories in TES.

[austere oasis]

How are the controls?

[feral viper]

Not great, but usable. If memory serves, you can't rebind the controls until after your first fight, so it can be a bit frustrating, but... They were frustrating times.

[split light]

There's so little to Arena and Daggerfall because they're procedurally generated, they'd be better off making an entirely new game. As for Morrowind, yes.

[feral viper]

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:First_Time_Players

This is pretty good for first timers trying it out.

[half igloo]

ithelia has entered the chat

[feral viper]

I wish she'd leave the chat.

[half igloo]

she's out there in the multiverse hanging with the dwemer and Maiq

[frigid hill]

How can I contact support? I need help

[spare plaza]

https://help.bethesda.net

[steel loom]

Don't bother trying to adapt modern control sensibilities to it. Accept it for what it is

The game is a classic adventure game where you're expected to glean information on your own from clues to talking to people. You could say it's got a bit of Ultima/RPG sensibilities to it

The cutscenes are bangin, highly recommended. The one with the ||soul gem, the loyalists claiming back the harbour while the mystic hums and prepares a spell to resurrect the king for the liberation efforts against the colonialists. Awesome||

Also, Redguard mentioned

https://tenor.com/view/redguard-cyrus-cyrus-the-restless-the-elder-scrolls-elder-scrolls-gif-6093947027707536300

Surely after the success of Indiana Jones and the Great Circle we'd have the Eye of Argonia anytime soon, right

[plush island]

Hey I'm playing the remake and it's not letting me cast spells I should. It just says "your skill level is too low" despite being at the right level. Anyone got any advice?

[plush island]

Nevermind, turns out my ring was messing with my level

[scarlet patio]

There’s a lot of debate on what the best Elder scrolls game is…

Some say Skyrim, some say oblivion, some say morrowind

But we all know the best elder scrolls game is the cancelled elder scrolls game developed by obsidian that only exists in another alternate universe

[austere oasis]

Battlespire is right there

[sly moon]

Has anyone here had an issue with the oblivion remaster embers on fire enchanted where they appear as huge lines but I’ve seen it happen with fire pits to I’m on ps5 and doesn’t seem to be a fix

[silver turret]

Quick question what's the difference between the skyrim editions I have the special and anniversary edition?

[wild sleet]

Hey guy can anyone help me ? the game worked perfectly until i go away of the tutorial dungeons, even when i play on medium i cant do anything that tilt me is the game problem or a soluce can help me ?

[timid drum]

The SE and AE version just provides aditional features, such as quests and armor, ie the saints and seducers quests

[silver turret]

Which has more content?

[timid drum]

AE

[silver turret]

Ok thanks

Also will there be remasters of any of the other elder scrolls games?

[timid drum]

nobody knows

[potent tinsel]

#screenshots-and-video message

anyone know what these were from

[silver turret]

Another question for oblivion can I have more than 1 character?

[slate dirge]

anyone having issues with the game crashing constantly?>

[stark flower]

Which game and on which platform?

[stark cipher]

Yeah I have had issues on console aswell

PC has been having frame issues too

I remember doing one of the crusaders quest in a dungeon my frames went crazy but when I restarted it was fine.. the game just needs a proper patch is all

[restive cave]

do you think a modern day daggerfall type spinoff could work? With zero random generation but more handmade quests and template based dungeons

[quaint nova]

That would just be a new game, would take years

[restive cave]

i meant without modern day graphics

[quaint nova]

They wouldn't do it then

[acoustic gulch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1363954515849646090/1366082582852272139/PXL_20250427_160417850.jpg?ex=680fa70c&is=680e558c&hm=042f3eb2f150e0a28e6ccb3f00afbb4c825257b2c1554de24dfecd09b117e483&=&format=webp&width=1385&height=778 Happy to share my Keycult 1/1 skyrim tkl!

[restive cave]

thanks for zero insight man

[quaint nova]

You asked i answered

[restive cave]

all you did was say they wont do it

[quaint nova]

Your question was would it work, the answer is no

[restive cave]

if they would, we wouldve had it or it would be announced

[restive cave]

this series really brings in the most reddit tier annoying people damn

[quaint nova]

Sorry, ill just agree with you so you think im cooler lol

[restive cave]

dont worry youll still be annoying then

[quaint nova]

Lol someone is salty their idea doesn't make sense

[restive cave]

does it not make sense or do you just like sounding superior by saying no with zero additional insight

[stable zodiac]

Daggerfall the game would literally take years to recreate without procgen. Next to daggerfall Skyrim is as big as a large room. Daggerfall is massive, literally thousands of npcs, towns, caves, etc

[quaint nova]

Exactly. Itd take too long

[restive cave]

maybe not with like the entirety of it but I think if you dont have to spend too much time on designing assets for a 3d game I think you could still work on it

though then again the people who want oblivion and the people who want daggerfall are vastly differing in number

[stable zodiac]

Now they could make daggerfall the province like Skyrim, Cyrodiil or Morrowind but it would be much smaller than the original game.

[restive cave]

what about sticking to like skyrim and morrowind

thats like half the size

[quaint nova]

They would need to put it onto an outside team like they did with oblivion. The amount of people who want a daggerfall remake is insanely small compared to any other ip

[restive cave]

theyre already doing outside teams

[quaint nova]

That's the only option really

Idk of any teams that do remasters for pixel games though

[stable zodiac]

The thing is, that's not remaking Daggerfall the game. And if they want to go through the trouble of creating a "new" province with the modern sizes they might as well use another province like Vallenwood or Eylswer that has not been used in a mainline game (let's ignore Arena that used the whole of Tamriel pretty much).

[restive cave]

Im not asking to remake daggerfall tho, Im saying a non 3d AAA rpg with the in depth mechanics and friction of daggerfall

[stable zodiac]

I'd like a Daggerfall remake but only because I want more TES.

[stable zodiac]

Nightdive does good enough remakes / remasters of 90's games. They could be a good fit.

[plush island]

Anyone know where to get weakness to magic in the remaster?

[quaint nova]

AAA means they would have to pour a lot of money into. The A rating only has to do w/ the money involved

4mil +

[restive cave]

do you think 4 mil is large for a game now lmao

[quaint nova]

Uh, yeah

4 mil is a lot

[restive cave]

that barely covers the pay, do you know the budgets actual AAA games work with?

[quaint nova]

Yeah, that isn't worth for a pixel game

[restive cave]

also I meant non 3d non AAA

[quaint nova]

Oh okay, then sure

[dim reef]

I hope TES VI will be great

[restive cave]

4 mil is still very little for a game of the scope tho

[quaint nova]

Oh it will be, no doubt

[jagged flare]

Who is Broder, the bear in Skyrim? Can any devs who helped create the game tell me who he is and what he would of looked like?

[pulsar root]

4 million players is considerable since a lot of things were already created. Its accomplishment what the remaster has done and this wasn't your typical AAA game.

[restive cave]

4 mil is about a potential budget for a future game not sales for oblivion lol

[eager remnant]

It should be available from Aurelinwae or Vigge the Cautious - and also from The Apprentice birthsign.

[dreamy onyx]

Ps5 disc version when? We know something?

[green verge]

Same here, I'm enjoying Oblivion so much again and want the same for TES 6. I wasn't too big on Starfield, so I hope for TES 6 they implement more of the writing, characters and quest design from this game, because it's really really good imo.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/wattsthesafeword-wts-pupamp-uncomfortable-face-gif-21851966

Like, quest design is whatever, that's a matter of taste more than anything.

But Starfield's stories are objectively better written, and it's characters better defined. In both respects, Oblivion remains the low point for Bethesda over the last 25 years.

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/elder-scrolls-stop-you-violated-the-law-gif-21698958

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/law-police-judge-cop-dredd-gif-8606130

[full needle]

Everything from Skyrim + everything from Oblivion Remastered for TESVI (CreationKit of course) lol

[gaunt heron]

how yall enjoying things

[hidden herald]

https://tenor.com/view/oblivion-skyrim-guard-glitch-imperial-gif-12292665

[zealous knot]

hi

I have a question, has anyone else had an issue with Oblivion Remaster going dark and npcs and doors turning invisible?

[mellow sentinel]

Pls add mod support for Oblivion Remastered 🙏🙏🙏

[dim reef]

No

[night violet]

One thing I want in TES VI, I want a vampire town. A place you can go at night and buy and sell things. One of the main reasons I don't play Vampire in Oblivion is the lack of merchants at night. Skyrim at least added the merchants in the vampire faction that you don't have to worry about the sun when going to sell stuff.

[daring matrix]

oh that's such a fun idea

i'd like more "jobs" i think. our existing faction examples are cool! but i think being able to be a merchant, bounty hunter, dog/horse trainer, etc etc would be a great way to communicate some of the simpler parts of worldbuilding to the player. i think most fantasy games struggle with making their npcs feel like a people that the pc is a part of rather than just a cut above the rest savior. i'd probably have more examples in mind if it wasn't four am but i'm sure you see the vision

[night violet]

I'd love if the mission board from Starfield found its way to TES VI.

[crystal dawn]

Because I’m scared of it getting lost in the oblivion suggestions forum - Let people edit and delete custom spells please!!!

[feral viper]

Oh sweet atheismo, that's another problem with Spellcrafting. The ungodly bloat.

[scarlet patio]

Here’s a list of things I’d like to see from TES6:

• No load screens when entering towns and buildings, fully seamless open world
• Better face animations
• The backgrounds and traits system from Starfield but expanded so the traits/backgrounds have a more significant effect on your play-through
• Every NPC has a unique daily cycle and more dialogue options like Oblivion
• Quests feel more open-ended with more dialogue options, skill checks and multiple endings
• An ever evolving game world where certain quest decisions have consequences on the world i.e. a quest that impacts the economy may result in a city being less clean and certain townsfolk having their houses repossessed
• DLC that expands the map and adds beloved Tamriel locations such as Cyrodil, Morrowind and Skyrim (along with their own campaign and side quests)
• Reputation system from Morrowind - townsfolk react differently depending on certain choices or certain factions that you joined
• Fallout NV-style campaign that mostly revolves around which faction/side quests you participated in rather than a set main story to ensure your character isn’t shoehorned in a plot/position that doesn’t make sense for them

[feral viper]

1: Yes, absolutely agree. We're at the point where selective loading of relevant assets can be used to streamline processes without the need to totally compartmentalize areas the old fashioned way.

2: A bit of a pipedream, as Bethesda is gonna Bethesda, but I generally agree. On animations as a whole.

3: I think Traits is a great step forward (backwards? Back into line?) bit it needs some significant work to really shine.

4: In principle yes, though not like Oblivion. Oblivion is dreadful.

5: All except multiple endings, yes.

6: This is where I start to depart. It really depends on the quests, though any changes should be minor and subtle as to not destabilise the enktire franchise. No BioWare nonsense.

7: Eh, yeah sure. My stance on the setting is pretty clear at this point, and I'd personally prefer to see more mechanical expansions rather than just new lands (which will undoubtedly be immensely disappointing) but it's whatever.

8: In principle yes, in practice no. Reputation systems are a great concept, but no one has ever made a good one, and if included it would need to be built from the ground up.

9: First, we played very different New Vegas games apparently (I'm starting to think everyone else has an entirely different copy). Second, picking one type of story or another to focus on instantly eliminated narrative options. Skyrim mostly had this right, effectively offering 2 Main stories (Alduin and the Civil War), though it fumbled a bit at the execution of that division.

[scarlet patio]

5. By multiple endings, I mean quests where you can choose to go against the quest giver and help the opposition or maybe certain skill checks or approaches that yield a better outcome

6. The new vegas I played set you up by getting shot in the head and hunting down the person who shot you. Then in your quest for vengeance, you end up finding youself dragged into the New Vegas civil war storyline in which the rest of the quest is very different depending on the side content you complete. You either join the NCR, Imperials, work with Mr House to achieve his scheme… or go your own way and band together with various smaller factions. I really liked this approach since getting shot and going after your killer is a very genetic plot that fits just about any type of character and the variation in factions allow you to choose which faction/path best fits your character. In my eyes, it achieves the goal of role-playing better than any Bethesda game

[feral viper]

5: Oh I get that in general, I just think it's got far less reasonable usability than many others. Skyrim didn't do terribly in this regard for the most part (the disaster of the Civil War not withstanding) and kept those sorts of outcomes to minor side stories with no real historical value. Some Daedric Quests are a prime example of this.

When you do this with major events, however, all you do is create a spiraling, destabilised timeline that requires either bloated Choose-Your-Own-Adventure minigames (Dragon Age) or outright rejection of player agency and the establishment of a Canon ending. On the larger scale, it only ends up actively countering the very thing it supposedly exists to do: Make your choices meaningful.

9: You must have missed the constant shoe-horning of your character as important, every DLC hyping you up as the Messiah, and even the literal first stop on your revenge trip highlighting how other people already know how monumentally impactful you are.

I may not like Oblivion because it's bad, but I despise New Vegas.

[bright siren]

Out of curiosity, as someone who hasn’t played much New Vegas and thus doesn’t really have a stake either way, doesn’t Skyrim more or less do the same thing? In every major quest line the same player/worship happens, but you seem more positively inclined towards Skyrim. Is it more for gameplay reasons? Or is it because being the Dragonborn is like the whole plot? Or some other reason?

[feral viper]

Being the Dragonborn is only really relevant to a few stories in Skyrim, while being the Courier is relevant to all the major stories in New Vegas, which is one difference.

Being the Dragonborn is also somewhat nebulous in Skyrim. There have been many Dragonborn, and based on the information in game (Discounting Howard's interviews which spoiled the whole thing) the actual outcome remains nebulous until the very end. All we're told is 'The wheel turns on the Last Dragonborn).

New Vegas, on the other hand, takes every opportunity it can to say something along the lines of 'The entire fate of the region would be shaped by his/her actions at Hoover Dam' and 'The Courier would decide the destinies of everyone present' etc. On top of that, even the minor side stories always push you back towards the main one, with insignificant groups like strung out drug addicts living in a ransacked vault having some vested interest in the conflict.

Skyrim (and to its credit, Oblivion as well) actually presents a wider world where not everything is dependent on the main story. New Vegas does not. Even all it's DLCs push you back towards the main conflict. It desperately wants to be a linear game, wearing the macabre skinned face of an open world one.

And that's just the overall systemic differences in narrative approach, the specific details of why I actively hate the game are beyond the scope of this channel.

But like... Skyrim puts you half way through the main quest before prophecy is even brought up. Before that, you're just a Dragonborn. Rare, sure, but not exactly the Messiah.

Literally the first quest outside the starting tutorial town in New Vegas, has a dispatcher tell you "Oh yeah, guy ahead of you on the list was supposed to get that job, but he saw your name after his and was like 'Naw man, give it to that dude, he's WAY more important than I am'. "

Which ultimately sets up the character who single handedly changed my stance on whether or not you could have too much dialogue in an RPG.

[tardy tiger]

Dragonborn only matters to Skyrim and it's really just a Dragon hunter.

Cyrodiil barely cares about their so called "chosen of Akatosh". The fabrication can be easily and is ignored.

[crimson edge]

For me, what I want to see the most is the following:

1. Skill Perk system from Skyrim. I think that system was solid and just need better options. Same thing with bringing back some of the older skills that wasn't available in Skyrim.

2. Meaningful Attributes (more so like how they are done in Fallout or DnD). Older Elder Scrolls titles don't really do attributes correctly in my opinion, since you will always max out all Attributes eventually (except maybe Luck), which ruins some of the variety of builds if you ask me.

3. Bring back classes, backgrounds, and birthsigns.

Get that stuff setup for more meaningful roleplay and builds.

[feral viper]

Exactly. And it's only ever really related to you in-universe, which means you're only ever having other characters tell you how important they think you are. Often with contradictory information.

New Vegas uses narration to constantly tell you that you're basicallyJesus.

[eager remnant]

I more less agree with everything except classes. In my opinion the permanent classes we saw in older games like Morrowind and Oblivion are the opposite of "meaningful roleplaying". I believe a good roleplaying system should simulate real life as much as possible. In real life we do not keep our first job for life. We grow, we learn, as we encounter new ideas and have new experiences. Most of us are likely to go through more than one career or job in our lives. And I believe a good roleplaying system should strive to emulate that. Skyrim allows for this kind of character growth. Morrowind and orignal Oblivion do not. I am pretty pleased with Oblivion Remastered in this regard, though. I would like to see that approached expanded upon in future games.

[crimson edge]

The classes are supposed to symbolize what we did BEFORE the start of the game, and thus setup the beginning stats. That's why they are important, even if you only make Custom Classes. Without classes, everyone will have similar starting stats no matter their backstory.

[tardy tiger]

From having played TES3 and 4 I've honestly not felt much for classes.

You can easily ignore them and still do whatever you wanted. It feels like Starfields backgrounds fit better.

Fantasy classes have worked better in a group RPG like Baldur's gate, Pathfinder or MMOs (one of the reasons I like ESOs classes is because they expand on the magic of the series)

[pulsar root]

Classes make more sense for MMOs then single player RPGS where you have more freedom to be more hybrid like.

[feral viper]

The core problems with that being:

A: 99% of possible character backgrounds are not going to have any applicable skill carryover. Unless we have Farming and Carpentry skills, MOST people are basically going to be starting as absolute square 0.

2: Even if they do have applicable skills, that doesn't mean they are dictated by them. This was a particular failing of past systems in TES, where your Class determined what skills you need to level to progress in Character Level, but it generally applies more holistically. Just because you were a squire before, doesn't mean that you were good at it, of that it is what you will be in the future.

I think that Backgrounds basically covers everything useful that Classes did, only better.

[tardy tiger]

Classes also tends to describe a person.

Like if someone's a warrior you expect them to look and fight like a warrior but like my namesake sometimes events change people and they go a differnet direction (though my namesake wasn't exactly in control for said change)

[crimson edge]

I didn't say to bring back classes with the limitation that they had in the past. I really like how they were rebalanced in the Oblivion Remaster so that all skills will still level you up, your class's major skills is better at leveling still though but it does setup what you want to do in the game and give you that headstart you would want.

[feral viper]

Yeah, sometimes you just need to slaughter a whole city and sell your soul to an undead tyrant in a mad quest for revenge, becoming a necromancer king.

[tardy tiger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1198261435994755172/1331729569450954904/Arthas_Nike_meme.png?ex=6810948f&is=680f430f&hm=c0804e76811952592b0b370888d1037d2362bd2f6b69e603c6b9a1f558459f6e&

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-star-wars-emperor-palpatine-palpatine-gif-799657800635657398

[chilly ridge]

What are the odds of us getting a TES VI suggestions chat

[feral viper]

You're in it..

[chilly ridge]

hehe an official one I doubt they take anything suggested here seriously

[feral viper]

This is as official as it gets.

Though I actually agree with the second part.

[feral viper]

I wasn't necessarily saying you were, more that the Class concept comes with a lot of baggage that isn't actually beneficial.

Better to just take the Background name, drop all that baggage, and move forward with the good stuff.

[crimson edge]

The problem is that I disagree. I don't think classes has any baggage at all. There's no net negative at all to have classes. Ye' can have both what you want and classes together in the same game.

[feral viper]

Yeah there is.

Classes impose identity. Both in the title you hold, as well as in your means of progression. It doesn't matter if your character changes or learns or even abandons a previous walk of life, that Class will always dictate who they are in basically every setting.

Take for instance D&D. In order to change your class, you have 2 basic options. Multi class, in which case you're pulling your old walk of life along with you, or straight up reroll your character (something which some DMs don't even let you do).

Similar problems persist in basically every Class system. KotOR, TES, Diablo, Mass Effect, etc.

[tardy tiger]

Fantasy classes are less background and more what they are currently.

If someone's a Paladin they're a Holy warrior who uses holy magic. If they're a former paladin then it's their background and something happened that made them stop being a Paladin.

[feral viper]

Specific to TES, in both Oblivion and Morrowind, your class dictated what skills you can level to progress. Even if you just make these particular skills contribute more, you're still creating the conceptual problem of...

Why? Who says that what you know, and what your good at, are the same thing? Maybe you've been raised in a pious house and never touched magic, but have an image affinity for it. Wheres the reason for you to be a Sorcerer Class when you've never even cast a spell? At the same time, being raised a Knight doesn't mean you're GOOD at those things.

Classes impose when they should guide, they dictate when they should advise, and they hamper character identity and diversity by creating neat little boxes that simply don't reflect reality.

[pulsar root]

Nah they don't need to have classes. It should be up to the player to pursue whatever archetype they are going for. In the mainline ES games that is.

[crimson edge]

That's literally a non-issue that doesn't even exist in current Elder Scrolls games. The only time you really do have issues where you're heavily limited by your class was Arena. Technically Daggerfall but Daggerfall has custom classes and a lot of features to modify everything. Outside of that, you're free to do w/e you want and stick to your class or just has it as a setting point. You can play as the identity you setup or you can make a generic identity with basics and play w/e you want. Make your build. That's the idea of a roleplaying is to play a character, to have an identity, and be part of the world.

Classes are a big part in that because it allows you to setup whom you are and who you want to be, and if you do change... You can do that and be fine. There's absolutely no identity crisis at all to worry about with Elder Scrolls.

Also, backgrounds and classes are two different things. Backgrounds are more so how you grow up or your initial job while the class is your overall hobby/goal as an individual. You can be a simple farmer whom discovered that they are a Sorcerer and can tap into magicka pretty well. Your background will be Farmer, your class will be Sorcerer in that case.

[half igloo]

i like classes as it informs a genre for me to pursue and just enough backstory to begin

[feral viper]

It was literally an issue up until Skyrim.

Want to play a child raised As a Knight but naturally gifted at magic? You have to PICK Sorcerer at the start in Oblivion and Morrowind, or you're never going to level.

Have a character who experiences something significant that changes their view on the world and radically shifts their actions? Well, better reroll or give up leveling altogether, because your Class dictates your progression.

[crimson edge]

Stop lying. You can make a CUSTOM class at any point in any of the games except for Arena.

[feral viper]

Skyrim was the first game to do away with that railroading, and I guess Oblivion Remastered adopted a degree of it as well, but don't pretend this hasn't been an issue in TES historically.

[crimson edge]

It wasn't an issue though. You always had full control over what you want to do with your character and playthrough.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/missthepoint-the-point-gif-7984004

[crimson edge]

Ye' class doesn't dictate ya progression that heavily matey.

[feral viper]

@pulsar root @tardy tiger am I just not articulating the problem well? I need a second opinion here.

[crimson edge]

Ye' problem is that you have to use Major & Minor skills to level up, and that's it. Which isn't a huge problem. Yes, skills not part of your class wouldn't level you up but is that a huge deal? No, you still are making progress no matter what because you are leveling your skills. On top of that, in the older games, you outright want to level up skills that aren't your class skills to max out those lovely +5s in the stats you want to increase during the level up stage. That was important to the balance and progression originally.

Oblivion Remastered did revamp it, and made it better by making all skills level you up and you now have +12 points you can freely spent in three different attributes as you level up, which is a better way of doing it and fixes literally all of your issues in my eyes.

They can just adapt that for TES6, and combine it with Skyrim's perk system. Huge improvements.

[feral viper]

Ok, so you actually get the point, you've just decided to dismiss it as not important enough.

Fine, it's clear we have very different opinions on what importance is.

For me, never leveling up, getting more resources, or abilities (because Oblivion's Perks were linear trash) is pretty significant.

[crimson edge]

Aye, I don't like Oblivion's perks being linear either. Hence why I want Skyrim's perk system for the skills.

[half igloo]

or the endless mods of skyrims system - i think the big one was called Ordinator , soooo many choices and cool abilities to unlock

[crimson edge]

However, I do think having classes, backgrounds, birthsigns, etc will be a huge net benefit, especially if they adapt this new idea they tried out in the Oblivion Remastered where all skills still level you up and make progress. Plus your level up attribute points are free, rather than dependent on your previous skills up.

[crimson edge]

Aye, I forgot which one I use. It's a more lighter one though in comparison to Ordinator but still fun and allow for some great builds. It even puts Hand-to-Hand combat as perks in the Light Armor area, which is nice but not my preferred method of Hand-to-Hand. I love my Oblivion's Hand-to-Hand method more.

No armor at all, pure mage with fists.

[feral viper]

Hell, I also think Birthsigns are tacky nonsense, and Major/Minor/Misc skills are an absolutely garbage system, sooo

But I have product to label, I'll rant about that after

[half igloo]

even though you can change them in ESO, i like the ablities\ stats \ powers the ESO Birthsigns give

vs oblivion or skyrim

[crimson edge]

Birthsigns as a whole do needs some better options, which some mods for Skyrim has made them nicer but I would prefer Birthsigns to be something you pick at the start of the game.

They do have an effect on how you play your character, or you can default to The Lord.

[feral viper]

I view Birthsigns as worthless concepts in their own right. There Astrology nonsense and don't belong in anything, anywhere.

[crimson edge]

At this rate, it feels like you don't like having roleplay options in a RPG.

[pulsar root]

Birth signs are fine I don't really see them as nonsense. Backgrounds should be expanded upon but I said that already.

[feral viper]

When I'm done here, I'll drag out my link to show otherwise.

[crimson edge]

Arguably, everything can be expanded upon.

[feral viper]

I just think most RPG mechanics are actively bad

I don't care about tradition, or how things have been done in the past. I only care about results.

[crimson edge]

So, you want to strip down roleplay mechanics and have less results? Like, that's how I see it. Having options makes the roleplay more fun, and allow for more customization.

[feral viper]

Not at all. I want to remove the limiting legacy mechanics and replace them with superior ones. No matter how different from the traditional they are.

[crimson edge]

But none of them are limiting at all and have no negative impact.

[feral viper]

I have repeatedly explained how they are. You just choose to ignore the issues or pass them off as not significant enough

[bright siren]

Do you dislike them because of presentation or in-game functionality (or both/neither)?

[crimson edge]

How are birthsigns or backgrounds problematic at all? The issue with classes I already explained how that's not a big issue.

[feral viper]

I think the presentation and functionality in all cases where Classes have been used has been bad enough that they're not worth saving.

[bright siren]

Oh sorry, I meant to ask about Birthsigns. You called them "astrology nonsense" so I was just wondering if you had an issue with that presentation or if you also see them as mechanically worthless.

[half igloo]

ESO helped explain the birthsigns in the Craglorn quest , at least for me

being another tier of gods

[feral viper]

Oh, Birthsigns are just a lazy cop out from doing Daggerfall Advantages and Disadvantages, with some Astrology window dressing thrown in because 'Magic'.

They're tacky and functionally inferior to what came before, representing the worst kind of progress.

Backgrounds, as a system, can do everything Classes and Birthsigns do, only better

[crimson edge]

Except you lose more freedom and have less choices, because you're locking everything down into a single overarching choice instead of allowing full customizability.

[feral viper]

Only if you implement Backgrounds as set packages.

Which is it's self incredibly silly, lazy design.

[crimson edge]

You can have each thing separately, and have each one work differently. Backgrounds will affect your social standing in the world initially, classes will operate as what you are doing or will do. Birthsigns act as a gameplay mechanic, allowing your to modify how you play that character.

We just need more worthwhile birthsigns as options rather than the ones we have gotten in the past. Really only the Atronach has had any major gameplay changes when picked. Having a few simple ones isn't a bad idea for people whom want to avoid any major changes but still, that choice to customize your experience is nice and good for roleplay.

[feral viper]

Nah, Just have Backgrounds. There are presets, and Custom.

Bam, you can do everything you could before.

If you REALLY have to have old tropes likes Classes because you're determined to cling to names instead of idea, then simply use them as package presets along with Race, but entirely removed from 'Custom'.

Though even then, Career History is better than Class as a name.

[half igloo]

tbh, i'd like that as a change

the old adage honey vs vinegar etc

calling it lazy, stupid decisions by the creators is what was turning me off from everything you were arguing for

[feral viper]

Fair. I've admittedly gotten more hostile after having the same discussion over and over and over over the years.

Mostly with Ballowers...

I kinda miss him though. And the old Forum gang.

[bright siren]

I’m too young to have experienced forums. They seemed neat.

[feral viper]

Long form and detailed discussion was much easier there.

Discords formatting just doesn't allow for the same stuff.

[shell swan]

I like birthsigns, I rationalize it with it being related to different magical flow due to the stats.

[tardy tiger]

Honestly the most i'd want is Starfields backgrounds and TES4 Remasters Origins. Origins is really so stuff like Colovians and Nibenese make it in somewhere then the current state of non-existence.

[feral viper]

To be a little more complete, rather than just explaining why X is problematic, or Y is tacky..

The way I see it is this.

Background is literally what your character was, did, or engaged in before you take control. It is a combination of influences both inherent and experiential, so it covers everything from race (i hate that word) to jobs to aptitudes to social standing.

At creation, you should have 2 approaches. Presets, in which case you pick a Race, an Origin/Class/History, and a Birthsign.

Or, Custom, where you just build it all however you want.

[crimson edge]

Actually, the Origins in Oblivion Remastered aren't new. They were in the original Oblivion.

Essentially, in the original Oblivion. Your choice of body type had an effect on your stats. They converted that into the Origins and left the body type choice to be purely cosmetic.

[tardy tiger]

Oh I know what they do I jsut prefer the whole Colovia/Nibenay part.

[feral viper]

Having come from Daggerfall, they were one of the few things in Morrowind I never warmed up to.

What if I want no Magicka Regeneration, Fire Weakness, and Turn Undead?

Too bad. You take the preset packages and you LIKE IT. Individuality has no place here.

[eager remnant]

Ballowers and his obssession with item degradation. Those were the days.

[feral viper]

I know right? Like, even accepting that the idea had value, but the execution was poor... It was just 'Nope, I want item decay like in Oblivion!'

Bless him, he knew what he wanted though. There's something to be said about that.

[crimson edge]

Item Degradation is something I wish would never return.

Armorer was removed so that Blacksmithing can become a thing in Skyrim, haha.

[feral viper]

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, now that I'm not working, here's my (now somewhat outdated) rambling in a superior format.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/7898783-lachdonins-rpg-rambling/#replyForm

I think Item Degradation has value as a concept, but the execution needs to be very particular. It's actually in there somewhere, so since I've shared the link I won't dig it up presently

[crimson edge]

I think it fits better in some games, but I never liked it in RPGs personally.

[feral viper]

As a way to increase moment to moment tactics, and regulate gear improvement, I think it has value.

But like it's been used traditionally? Nah, I agree, it's just a tax on gameplay.

[shell swan]

I wish they'd remake the Travels titles.

[feral viper]

Now those are titles I could waive my remaster hate for.

[bright siren]

Shadowkey and/or Redguard remasters/remakes would go crazy

[livid ingot]

They'd need a remake for sure. I don't think a remaster would be enough, but maybe...

Battlespire too

Battlespire and Shadowkey could both nurture competitive scenes, which would be a new (old) thing for the series since they originally experimented with those features.

[half igloo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-tPqJ1F2TM

[scarlet patio]

I think we’re polar opposites when it comes to what we like from Bethesda games. New Vegas, Oblivion and Starfield are my top 3 bethesda/bethesda-adjacent games

[feral viper]

I tend to avoid the Fallout chat entirely, because of my contempt for New Vegas and the communities reverence for it.

And I mostly limit my smack talking of Oblivion to quips and curmudgeoning because last time I went into detail the mods god mad.

Starfield's alright though. Not great by any stretch, and with a whole boat load of problems, but it's decent.

Probably spent more time building ships than actually playing it though, but that's a whole other issue.

[half igloo]

I feel like Starfield is a great platform for greater things - like smuggling contrabrand was a great start I hope that either BGS or a modder expands on

but... thats starfield chat

[scarlet patio]

(Your point about Oblivion). That’s literally me with Skyrim. I’m always quipping about Skyrim. In all seriousness, I can see that it is still a great game. Has probably the best exploration in the series and while it took me ages to find the motivation to go past the first act, when I started getting into the faction questlines, the game still managed to suck me right in

[feral viper]

My disdain for Oblivion (and New Vegas) certainly isn't from lack of trying. Though it was a disappointment right out of the gate, given how bland an uninspiring the art direction is.

But I've been negative enough for one day, so I'll leave it there.

[crimson edge]

Building ships was by far the best feature in Starfield.

[primal olive]

ugh the goblin using a spear and the way they hold it mames me jealous, I wish we had spears in newer TES games <\3

actually let me look up how many time spear has been said

it's mostly me recently I think my autism is powerful I low snow elves and spears

[small sage]

kills the snow prince wanna be and puts his armor and weapons and body in a tomb

[solemn rose]

loots the snow prince tomb, resurrects with soul gem made from kaydin

[pulsar root]

Goes into deep sleep until the 4th era

[small sage]

fourth era isnt what it is cracked up to be. the thieves' guild quest in oblivion is way better imo. Dont sell your soul to nocturnal

dont get me wrong, out of all the daedric princes, there are worst princes to sell your soul too.

[pulsar root]

I wouldn't sell my soul to any Daedric Prince. Daedra cannot be trusted. Sorry Dunmer peeps.

[small sage]

Khajiit sold his soul for a neverending bottle of skooma from sanguine. Best deal I made so far.

[austere oasis]

Sanguine and Meridia aren't that bad there are worse Daedra to Follow

[dim reef]

TES VI needs to be great

[primal olive]

it needs to make up for the lack of diverse weapons and magic we had tbh

[dim reef]

It needs bigger and denser cities

[minor trellis]

hey guys i cant stand thoses crashes anymore here's my setup : AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 12GB 32 GB RAM 11th intel Core I5 11400F@2.60GHz. i'm able to play the game and it runs smoothly but every now and then when i open my inventory the game crashes the error is video dump or something. even tho if i trz to put everzthing to low, same issue. and when i'm in the configuration of the game it says in red '' can't boot on SSD'' and the SSD have enough storage... overlays are deactivated... i tried repaired the game, deleting the .SSL file that everzone is talking about, nothing can do. Does anyone have any information please? i really want to enjoy the game please ...

[feral viper]

Eh, Starfield had that, and they were lifeless hives of meaningless drones.

Better than Wild Hunt, but not by much.

[brazen citrus]

Yo ESO peeps, is there a way to move subtitles to the bottom of the screen on console?

[wide garnet]

You’re better off asking ESO proper about that. ESO isn’t really made by Bethesda.

[brazen citrus]

True

[unique umbra]

When’s the next oblivion patch ?

[feral viper]

After they fix my boy Manni. From the King of Worms, to the Barefoot Buffoon, to the Cosplay E-girl, to the dried out beef jerky.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, there's GOT to be a way to make him intimidating again.

[cerulean fossil]

They should put fishing in TES6

[plush island]

I hate the glitch where it doesn't let you change the attribute when your making a fortify attribute spell

[plush island]

Anyone know if the permanent enchantment glitch still works?

[feral viper]

I... Do not for the life of me understand the obsession with fishing in video games.

[tight charm]

And you don’t have to! It’s a very easy feature to ignore if it’s not for you.

[feral viper]

Depending on the game. It is, for instance, my only complaint about Stardew Valley.

You HAVE to fish, to complete the Community Centre.

The alternative is to go the Joja route, and only monsters do that.

[steel loom]

Oof ouch owie that Oblivion video

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720968174413152276/1367141240016994334/sobby.png?ex=681380ff&is=68122f7f&hm=8e16b123d71144b51a019298c28a106de30d8b7e17c724b69479af96cd3dcf2b&

[dim reef]

Reposting an elder scrolls meme and following up by saying “sorry if this was already posted Elsweyr.”

Hahaha I’m not funny.

[pulsar sparrow]

no, this was actually good. I liked this one

[feral viper]

And most of it after.

It began, and died, with Morrowind.

[half igloo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1254543981812121642/1367169319141904485/image.png?ex=68139b26&is=681249a6&hm=2b37074f711fdcdde48e21ed72bbb35601dca0286c454b089df236fe241dc9f2&

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/perfection-perfect-michael-fassbender-magneto-x-men-first-class-gif-2260686001358167676

[pulsar sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/sure-grandma-lets-get-you-to-bed-yes-grandma-gif-6683134261581381982

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/old-man-yells-at-cloud-yelling-old-man-news-the-simpsons-gif-17741451

[sweet zephyr]

Where do you guys think es6 should take place

[orchid raft]

Solely Morthal. With DLCs dropping that slowly opens up more of Skyrim

As for why there wasn’t any snow in the Elderscrolls 6 teaser, global warming.

[clear garden]

Yknow one thing I hope we get with the next TES

Are way bigger cities

Like bigger than new Atlantis.

[feral viper]

Where do I think it SHOULD?

Blackmarsh.

Where do I think it WILL? Hammerfell.

[pulsar sparrow]

I've heard about High rock judged on Trailer.

[feral viper]

Unlikely. Given the art design of the franchise, it's too desolate to likely be Highrock

It may INCLUDE Highrock, but I'd expect forests in any flyover of Highrock

[clear garden]

How big you reckon they're gonna make it?

[half igloo]

Given all the cool places I've seen in ESO, there are so many possibilities

[clear garden]

Definitely their biggest game ngl
Aside from starfield as that's space

But their biggest one map game

[feral viper]

Considering the reception to Starfields size, I'm not sure it WILL be bigger.

[pulsar sparrow]

I'm not sure if ESO is made solely by Zenimax

[feral viper]

ZOS has said that Bethesda engaged with them on writing and worldbuilding.

[pulsar sparrow]

like, ZeniMax makes whole Game, Bethesda checks if it is okay and publishes it

[feral viper]

Two different Bethesda's there. As a technicality anyway, they're all interconnected

[pulsar sparrow]

eh, could be. Not my circus, not my monkeys honestly

all I can see is that ESO is going COMPLETELY different path than other TES games

[clear garden]

I do hope it's their most dense game

[feral viper]

Bethesda Softworks is the publisher.

Bethesda Game Stidios is the developer of most TES games. ZOS is the developer of ESO.

Both ZOS and BGS are under the Bethesda Softworks umbrella.

[pulsar sparrow]

and ZeniMax are the one who made Morrowind and Oblivion, not sure if they werent also the ones who made Arena and Daggerfall, but I'm not that old

(pun intended)

[feral viper]

Nope, that was BGS. ZOS was founded specifically for ESO.

[clear garden]

Space is a hard genre to make a game for. Its main downfall is that it's too big and you wont be able to make every single body have enough content

[pulsar sparrow]

alright, time to get back to work

[feral viper]

Enjoy.

[pulsar sparrow]

might appear randomly later. Cya

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-cat-cute-yessir-gif-17449845613192073437

Now, personally, I don't really care about size. Big or small, it's more important that you maximise what you're working with, and stay on theme.

Starfield utterly failed in that theme, IMO, and suffers because of it.

It doesn't matter if TES is a whole province, all of Tamriel, or just a single city and it's environs. Using the space well is far more important than explicit size.

[half igloo]

oh the rabbit hole gets deeper

Zenimax did technically create all of them as before the Microsoft buyout, Zenimax owned and operated ALL of them

Not the same as Zenimax Online Services or ZoS

Zenimax was the holding company for all of Bethesda

my craziest dream would be for them to try and ship ALL of cyrodil - at least the core parts and slowly ship DLC expansion regions over time

[pulsar root]

Zenimax didn't really touch Oblivion but...ok, weird.

[half igloo]

they did everything ... from Morrowind onward, when they merged everyone under Zenimax , Arena and Daggerfall would of been done by Bethesda Softworks as BGS wouldnt be created until 2001

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1254543981812121642/1367213243809923093/image.png?ex=6813c40e&is=6812728e&hm=a6c7957db6eb8e6a87aebd0c562f922b46c36b7f54494ed097a857d93abd49f0&

[pulsar root]

That doesn't mean they developed the game tho. They're just the parent company/upper management

And I generally don't look into corporate structures. Nobody got time 4 dat.

[feral viper]

Getting too deep into the relationships of holding companies and subsidiaries is delving into eldritch knowledge only meant for the most depraved of Accountants.

Venture not, for this way lies madness.

[dim reef]

I am tempering my expectations about TES VI because they made so many mistakes with Starfield

[feral viper]

Every Bethesda game is full of mistakes. They're (mostly) enjoyable despite that.

But one should ALWAYS temper their expectations, in all things.

[pulsar root]

The setting of several planets vs one big world space is kinda different but I don't wanna regurgitate myself

Edit: I don't think we should take anything from that old teaser. It could be unreliable at this point.

[rose pagoda]

I wish oblivions barter/disposition/mercantile system would be implemented in the next game- as well as add drivable wagons so i can rp a traveling merchant

[feral viper]

Unreliable, AND so vague as to be useless.

[feral viper]

Pet-peeve. But it's Haggling, not barter.

I hate when games use Barter for haggling

[rose pagoda]

Oops yea i really meant to say that but my brain died as i typed it out

[feral viper]

It'd not your fault, the game it's self does kt

[rose pagoda]

Like that was the whole point of my post is i want to haggle lol gah

[feral viper]

Haggling i support. Disposition, not so much. At least not how it's existed traditionally

[rose pagoda]

If they utilize tech from starfields buggy thing and ships maybe we can get boats and wagons

Yea i just like having more depth thiugh dispositions kinda funny when you thjnk about it. Im just spamming buttons in a miningame. I like to imagine we are just having a conversation but it feels weird to be forced to like coerce for example if we are rp-inf a nice person for example

[clever comet]

Am I the only one that doesn't want base building for ES6?

[hard ember]

As long as it doesn't distract from the main game and is optional I dont mind

[clever comet]

Yeah. I just am afraid they'll pull a starfield and the gimmick becomes the game. If they do smth like Daggerfall and just have a lot of fun systems with a unique story? Bet.

[hard ember]

I played Starfield for less than 10 hours, couldn't be bothered playing it any longer. What a snoozefest.

If they put all their time and resources into ES6 it could have been released by now.

[feral viper]

Somewhat ironically, I think for inspiration regarding disposition, they need to go outside of RPGs.

Settlement and Colony Management games tend to have vastly superior relationship and disposition mechanics than any RPG ever has.

[feral viper]

And it would have been just as bad.

The problem has never been the time or effort, it's been the direction, and development decisions along the way.

[hard ember]

Maybe, but it would have been a better and more successful game than Starfield.

Also they need to ditch the game engine, its archaic.

[feral viper]

No, it's not. The game engine is modern.

Bethesda actively makes games in this particular way. It's not an engine thing, it's a BETHESDA thing.

[hard ember]

Its the Creation Engine, they've been using it since Morrowind.

[feral viper]

No, Morrowind was made with the Netimerse Engine.

Oblivion and Fallout 3 were then made with the Gamebyro Engine, which was like Netimerse 2.

Skyrim was made with the Creation Engine, which was a bespoke engine created by Bethesda. It has some legacy code from Gamebyro, but it is NOT Gamebyro (for reference, Unreal 5 still contains legacy code from the original Unreal, more than 25 years ago).

Creation them went through 2 significant in-house rebuilds, for Fallout 4 (migrating to 64bit is not a small matter) and again for Starfield.

Creation, for Starfield, is as different from Netimerse for Morrowind, as UE5 is from UE.

Yet no one goes around claiming that UE5 is the same engine that ran the original Unreal game, do they?

Blaming the engine for Bethesda's active decisions isn't going to get you the results you think it will.

I mean, hell, GTA6 is supposed to run on RAGE, which Rockstar has been using since 2006.

Would you say that RDR2 runs on an outdated engine because it's the same engine that ran Bully?

[chilly prawn]

We also have Creation to thank for the modding scene. If they used a different engine, we wouldn't have ANY of the mods we presently have... well apart from the lewd ones, probably.

[feral viper]

Modders would probably find a way. It'd just be much harder.

[chilly prawn]

Which means nobody would be making new content.

Just stat edits, maybe.

[feral viper]

You'd be surprised what people can do with mods. Even in games where they aren't technically supported.

[chilly prawn]

I'd be VERY surprised what people can do without an official map editor (or any editor at all) or anything like that if their new worldspace actually looks decent.

[feral viper]

Dawn of War is a good example of what you can do.

New maps. New factions. New campaigns. New units. TITANS.

But, the overall point was that Engines don't work the way most consumers think they do. And Creation from Starfield isn't even the same engine as Creation from Skyrim.

There a whole Ship of Theseus thing going on, to the point where you might as well call it Creation2.

If you wanted to brand like Unreal does, anyway.

Or you could take the Rockstar route, and just never rename the engine no matter how many changes you make under the hood.

[hard ember]

@feral viper thanks for educating me, I had no clue.

[feral viper]

No worries

[half igloo]

Spot on summary

[fiery bough]

Servio Pelagiad be like "cold won't be good for crops, there's a nip in the air"

my brother in talos

You decided to establish an agricultural venture in the coldest region in Tamriel

[dim reef]

do you think TES6 will have bathrooms? they havent been in any elder scrolls game I think

[steel loom]

Have you seen the buckets

[dim reef]

Jeremy is not returning, right?

[tight charm]

He is almost certainly not returning.

[frank ledge]

What's with your bathroom obsession?

[feral viper]

It's also incorrect. Skyrim contains many strategically placed bucket latrines.

[dim reef]

Massive L

[tight charm]

It’s his fault. 🤷

[dim reef]

How?

[tight charm]

Go and look him up on Wikipedia or YouTube. That’s all I can say here.

[dim reef]

Allegations that have been never proven

[feral viper]

Like the existence of God

https://tenor.com/view/finger-guns-gif-25457146

Anyway, the music's really just Eh anyway.

[steel loom]

Sacrilege

[bleak trout]

Oml Dyno I’m talking about it in-universe

Honestly if my elder scrolls doesn’t have absurd amounts of In-Universe race discrimination I’m not sure it’s elder scrolls ❤️

Like you could be talking down the street and someone calls you a snowman

Or any number of discriminatory terms depending on what race you are

[feral viper]

I mean... Out of all the games, that was a prominent feature of 2.

There have been like, 10 TES games.

I'd say that makes it the outlier, not the identifier.

[bleak trout]

I’m hoping TES:6 brings it back more than Skyrim did

Makes the world feel more realistic (I play Dunmer everybody hates us and I love it)

[feral viper]

Skyrim was already a step in the right direction compared to Oblivion. But even ESO heavily downplays that aspect.

It's pretty clear that Bethesda doesn't really want those elements to feature heavily in their world.

I think Bethesda is flat out wrong, but as far as worldbuilding I think that pretty much across the board.

But that's the situation we're unfortunately in.

[stable zodiac]

Well at least the elves in the obl remaster don't look like eso elves. There's still hope

[feral viper]

So, getting your hopes up about something they have heavily indicated is not the direction they're going, is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[feral viper]

Honestly, I'd take ESO Elves.

The Remaster is somehow uglier than the original. Like high-res zooming in on a zit.

[stable zodiac]

Hard disagree. You're misremembering the potato faces.

[feral viper]

Skyrim had decent direction in that regard, it just suffered from the decision to make everyone look exhausted and if they hadn't bathed in a decade.

There are other artists who have taken Skyrim's style and really showed off what it can create, but alas....

[bleak trout]

Ugh it’s dumb

Like there SHOULD be a reason a large number of Argonians haves negative disposition against me because I’m Dunmer

Or TES:6 if you’re an Altmer and there’s people still mad about the whole Thalmor thing

[bleak trout]

Not shor if it was the Nord accent but everyone sounded very bored

[feral viper]

Should be a lot of things. That's why I abandoned the lore community. Now I just complain about the lore, and focus on gameplay.

[bleak trout]

Unfortunately im a lore girlie because damn this universe is rich and infinitely interesting

I’m sadly aware that TES:6 is probably gonna have Swordsinging and it’s probably gonna make it less interesting and nerfed like Thuum was

[tardy tiger]

The old Medieval filter.

Like the Antiquity filter but more dirty.

[feral viper]

I was honestly surprised that the Disney Filter looks better than what they did.

[steel loom]

(and 1)

[pulsar root]

Ahh yes the filter to make things more ugly and such. Blehhhh

[feral viper]

You are the Hoonding, Ottoman Redguard, and Sword Singing.

Best I can do.

[bleak trout]

I would cry tbh

[feral viper]

And TES lore would celebrate

The mediocrity, not your crying.

Who knows though. My lore expectations are rock bottom. Maybe I'll be surprised

[pulsar root]

Daedra would drink your sad tears. 👿

[tardy tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-eyebrow-do-you-smell-wwf-dwayne-johnson-gif-26678395

[austere oasis]

I play an Argonian most times I think it's part of the charm and fun of the series, I agree

[tight charm]

I play Khajiit. People hate us too. =(

[bleak trout]

Oddly enough Oblivions disposition table has only positive for Khajit

They’re just silly lil guys

[bleak trout]

And the start is probably gonna be awful and frontloaded like F4

Give you all the stuff you previously had to work hard for just to appease journalists for review scores :/

[pulsar root]

presumptious

[gentle plover]

High elves are extremely ugly in oblivion remastered

[feral viper]

Remastered is just ugly. Full stop.

That's not entirely it's fault though.

[bleak trout]

High Elves are extremely ugly

FTFY

[gentle plover]

Dark elves are in fact better

[bleak trout]

K.

[bleak trout]

Indeed VvardenFellow

[pulsar root]

High Elf is better then Dark Elf if we're talking Mer specifically.

[bleak trout]

What a hilarious kneeslapper

[unique umbra]

Hey just asking not too be annoying is there a patch comming out anytime soon for the game ?

[gentle plover]

Daily prayer 🙏 to our god king Todd for morrowind remastered, TY Mr Todd 👉👈🥺❤️

[bleak trout]

God damn I need it so bad

[gentle plover]

Hard to top being a 7* year old in like 2008 or smth, walking around a swamp and hearing AAAEEEEEEEUUGHHHHH, and then picking up a scroll and then dying
Actual PEAK world building and like art style and architecture too such a banger game for how old it is

[bleak trout]

2006-08 was a great year tbh

Had H3, Bioshock, a bunch of great stuff 😄

[dim reef]

So many all-timers

[feral viper]

Ya don't hear about everyone on the continent wanting to hook up with Altmer, Nords or Khajiit, do ya?

https://tenor.com/view/chess-checkmate-checkmate-chess-chess-check-mate-independence-day-chess-independence-day-checkmate-gif-15030758237643481254

[pulsar root]

bruh

[feral viper]

The lizard brain doesn't lie.

Neuron activation, Go!

[feral viper]

The one, and only, example of Bethesda being good at worldbuilding.

Fallout's been pretty solid on the art design though.

[livid ingot]

The next huge expansion for Tamriel Rebuilt just came out. Morrowind lives eternal

We're feasting in TES content for sure

[feral viper]

Just, none of the good stuff is coming from official sources.

But anyway, before I descend into the doom-spiral... @gentle plover you mentioned combat.

Mechanics are where my focus is these days, given other things, so whatcha think'n?

[bleak trout]

Ancient Nord Warriors liked their Khajit wives

[bleak trout]

4 was awful

The one in between 3 and 4 tho had great art direction, kept it grounded and not haha wacky dieselpunk

[eager remnant]

In terms of art direction Fallout 3 is my favorite. Fallout 4 would be my second favorite and 76 my third favorite.

[bleak trout]

For me honestly

1. F1 (I love bleak atmospheres and hopeless feelings, plus the music direction is still the best in the series)

2. F:NV (goes without saying tbh)

3. F2 (if there’s a mod to remove the wackier stuff or have it as an option I’ll take it)

[primal olive]

High Elves dying when they stub their toe on an ice cube (somehow they're the best genetically or some other lie they tell themselves)

[primal olive]

daily prayer for spears in anything or more snow elves

[pulsar root]

Or just say the Divines are just Human propaganda.

[stark cipher]

I think the designs were better

[primal olive]

insane take, type of fella to follow the daedra

I can't post images but the new anniversary art for Morrowind uses the ESO design of Sotha Sil, and also they made Nerevar super sexy again

[gloomy anchor]

you can post images in link form

[primal olive]

I am on a phone, how lol

[gloomy anchor]

now that I do not know, I am on a pc

[primal olive]

https://x.com/BethesdaStudios/status/1917936707162210362?t=3JHlaxMge2a71QMrM5C9yQ&s=19 test

Bethesda Game Studios (@BethesdaStudios) on X

Today marks 23 years of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind!

Celebrating you Nerevar. 🎉

X · May 1, 2025, 1:38 PM

Nerevar using spears <3

[bleak trout]

Best art direction, story, and world in a TES game tbh

[primal olive]

some of the Snow elf architectural concepts from Skyrim are rather beautiful tbh

[feral viper]

I hate New Vegas with a fiery passion even Oblivion doesn't know.

[feral viper]

All gods are false.

[bleak trout]

oki but hwhy tho

[feral viper]

Not the topic for here. Or anywhere on this Discord, as my thoughts are so hostile they tend to violate the rules on harassment.

[bleak trout]

ooooooookay?

weird but you do you ❤️

Shadowkey remake when Beth Fezz Da

[gloomy anchor]

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-joseph-ahhh-its-the-fuzz-the-fuzz-fuzz-gif-25226434

[gloomy anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-deniro-meet-the-fockers-point-looking-at-you-im-watching-you-gif-5145428

lol

[feral viper]

Back to more relevant topics. @eager remnant probably knows who I'm going to invoke, but there was an artist some years back by the name of Kokomiko who did Merish character art using Skyrim's aesthetic, but not the dirty exhaustion, to great effect.

Her stuff was great, her elves were diverse, and really showed off what the style could do.

Unfortunately, for reasons I do not know, her account and most of her stuff has been scrubbed from the online space in the last few years, so it can be hard to find.

[primal olive]

ok dwemer

[feral viper]

I cannot agree with their actions. But I do agree with their stance on the divine.

And they actually HAVE the supernatural. We don't even have that.

[primal olive]

nah they're wrong, the aedra are vastly different from us

[feral viper]

Different, does not mean god. Power, does not mean god. Hell, even being the manifestation of Platonic Concepts, does not mean god.

They're just bullies who use their power to subjugate their leaders to feed their own egos. Same as the Daedra

[primal olive]

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Else_God-Hater you rn

[feral viper]

Can't hate what you don't think is real.

Don't even really hate Tyrants. Which the Aedra and Daedra are. I simply judge their actions.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075956662172647475/1367601524850556998/Kokomiko-Altmer.jpg?ex=68152dac&is=6813dc2c&hm=29eacefb8f85f273ced54b7b3e2a85207ad4eb80606428804346425fad6a92cb&

Hah, it does work. So, luckily, I saved some of Kokomiko's stuff eons ago.

FINE, Dyno, I'll only share the ONE.

Mostly gets the point across anyway.

I will also clarify, I do not fault the work of the artists of either Oblivion, or the Remaster. The execution is great for the times in which they were released, and the actual work the artists did is high quality.

I fault the art DIRECTION.

[bleak trout]

Not really, i like how some of the towns architecture changes depending on how close to another providence they are

i say it was better than Skyrims by a long shot

But nowhere near Morrowind's 11/10 art direction

[feral viper]

If those architectural influences actually had stylistic cues from said border provinces, I may agree. As it was, eh.

Skyrim wasn't great, but it wasn't the stylistic dearth of Oblivion.

[dim reef]

Nice concept art

[feral viper]

I should have saved some of her full portraits. She did a bunch of multi lose sketches, but they're all women, the only Merish men she did were full portraits, and I didn't save them when I had the opportunity.

[pulsar root]

Sometimes I do get tired of the "Gods are jerks" trope. Sorry Bot, I forgot.

[dim reef]

arent daedras more like demons?

[gloomy anchor]

"uses robot voice and pretends to be Dyno" I forgive you

[pulsar root]

I meant the Aedra in particular and honestly I've seen plenty of discussion implying some Daedra aren't pure evil although I find that view....disagreeable.

And TY Krakky Krakken.

[crimson fable]

They’re the same as aedra only they didn’t use most of their power creating nirn like the aedra did

[dim reef]

they are also mostly or wholly evil

[dim reef]

they are all evil

show me one daedra that isn't wholly evil

[feral viper]

Does it demand or desire worship?

If yes, it is a jerk. End of story.

If not, why call it a god?

[feral viper]

Azura. Nocturnal. Heroine.

[radiant moss]

Their perception has shifted over time. They were originally more like demons, yeah, f.e. Boethiah was the Daedric Regent of "Cruelty and Torture" and her quest in Daggerfall was having you kill someone because she felt like it. Azura was the Regent of Vanity and Egotism in DF, who wasn't terribly evil, but expected praise and was extremely self-absorbed with her beauty and demands from others. She only pulled the "i'll suck up to you and let you be my champion, but don't be a stranger 😘" schtick after you agree to her quest. Only some are truly evil now.

[dim reef]

azura is egotism and vanity also it is said that her wrath is quick and painful

nocturnal erases your being from history

[feral viper]

Neither of which are wholly evil.

[radiant moss]

^^, and in any case, that's more of a "was"* citation as it's not really respected anymore, but still an interesting footnote from Daggerfall (i wish it wasn't retconned)

[feral viper]

When you steal from her.

[dim reef]

okay ig

im no skyrim or elder scrolls player but I do listen to epic nate a lot

hasnt brought that up yet though

[pulsar root]

Stealing from her really shouldn't just mean "Oh hey you never existed now" Not really a proportional punishment(Sorry for late response guys Ima slow)

[dim reef]

isnt that what the grey fox wears?

[feral viper]

Though I should also stipulate, I don't think Evil is even a thing. It's a conceptual copout by the philosophically lazy.

Morally bankrupt and actively harmful.

[midnight stag]

I wished that’d they’d would’ve done es6 before starfield I’d much rather like that

[feral viper]

Evil is the excuse people give when they can't explain their moral condemnation.

[dim reef]

...?

you cant cuss?

[eager remnant]

I would too. On the other hand, my wife absolutely adores Starfield. It is the first BGS game that has truly excited her since Morrowind. So I guess they can't please everybody.

[feral viper]

No, you cannot

[radiant moss]

Er, no, unfortunately - part of the restrictions that the server hosts enforce to be welcoming and avoid trouble with being Discord Verified. Bot picks up a lot of false-positives though. Picked up "demagoguery" the other day when we were talking about the Stormcloaks.

[dim reef]

very sound advice, terical, damn.

[dim reef]

harmful is a bit tame for people who murdered 11 million people

[feral viper]

I mean, try using weird euphemisms like methamphetamine parrot, instead of cussing..

[feral viper]

I was being brief. I can be far more verbose if needed.

My overall point, though, was that the Daedra are far more complicated than even the common use of 'Evil'. Even the worst of them, Molag.

But that's back into lore stuff, and I don't need that methamphetamine parrot nonsense.

[bitter kestrel]

Hi folks, while there are real world influences for the setting we ask that you refrain from getting into sensitive topics or discussions

[errant stump]

Anyway to try ESO for free? I'm tempted to play it but don't see a way to try it out

[jovial citrus]

Jeremy Soule must be hired for Thes VI , the other composers have not been able to privide the unique vibes that Soule put into Elder Scrolls. Every music theme he did for the series is iconic and memorable, the same can't be said for the others .

[primal olive]

it adds good lore and plays fun you should definitely try it if you like mainline stuff, it does play different though

[errant stump]

Yeah I think I tried it temporarily at launch but I had a bunch of other things happening in my life at the time and was playing FFXIV a lot

[feral viper]

Hot take.

ESO's music is better than either Oblivion's, or Skyrim's.

[plush island]

Question, in the original oblivion putting weakness to blank on a spell with blank damage would have the weakness rendered useless. Is that the Same?

[plush island]

Where yall go??

[feral viper]

I'm here, but I have no answer for you.

[primal olive]

ask in oblivion chat it's filled with players rn

[errant stump]

Worth just buying the latest premium edition?

[primal olive]

do your research and see what would be the best deal for you

[pulsar root]

I would just buy the regular edition. But thats my opinion, you make the call.

[errant stump]

Oh I figured getting the extra classes would have been worth it

[gentle plover]

I feel like, dodging and parrying should be more rewarding / rewarded in the next game like, mage is already like the only OPTIMAL way to play in oblivion remastered on master at least because you do -5 goribillion dmg, but if they made it so you get 1 shotted but u could also one shot, or maybe not even one shot but do a significant amount of damage more by hitting a super slick nice parry or something it would be hella sick

This would at least HELP ALOT with how horrible it is to be a melee character on the hardest difficulty IMO*****
And from my experience playing oblivion remastered on master*****
Yes ik spell crafting is busted in actively brainstorming my ligma sigma spell

And yes ik poisoned stuff is ALSO busted but player should be rewarded for being a ultra mega pro gamer

[errant stump]

I have apparently bought the game before... I was in the midst of being a hardcore alcoholic at the time so I'm not shocked I don't remember

[primal olive]

oh lol

[errant stump]

online collection digital edition, has Morrowind and Summerset apparently

[errant stump]

had a level 3 Templar 😅

[dim reef]

Was playing Agronak's quest, and man I hope Dhampir heritage is a trait in TES6 if they're following on from Starfields traits mechanic. Something like a 10% Normal Weapons resistance, and/or a skill bonus. But immunity to regular vampirism as a semi-downside.

Tbh I just want to make Blade or summat.

[sudden temple]

In the elder scrolls 6 I would love to get a dlc or something going the akaviri Homeland

[primal olive]

I reccomend you read into the current stuff we already have instead and develop a connection with them

[sudden temple]

Pardon what exactly do you mean by that?

[primal olive]

We're extremely unlikely to get anything major from Akavir as the stories of Tamriel are not yet done

[errant stump]

pretty sad most of the rumors about TES VI are all going back to hammerfell instead of somewhere we haven't been yet

[sudden temple]

My apologies I will regulate what I say from now on more to your liking sir

[sudden temple]

I'm fine with being set anywhere honestly I'm just keen for the game an to see what new stuff they have like Will they bring back mysticism and mithril, how will magic work

[primal olive]

nah don't worry! it's important to have freedom in words and stuff :3

like I WANT spears and Falmer personally lol

[errant stump]

Ranged weapons besides the bow. Throwing weapons coming back would be nice along with crossbows being in at base

[dim reef]

Brad Derrick is goated

[feral viper]

I can't really comment on the remasters combat tweaks, since I don't have it. But in principle I definitely agree.

Melee combat in Bethesda games lacks several core features that puts it well behind basically all other melee focused games. Active dodging, parrying, crowd control, and hit targeting.

The only real feature of any use in Bethesda's approach to melee is 'Beat it till it falls down', which is just dreadful.

Looking to games like Vermintide, Chivalry, Mordau, Dark Messiah, or hell even Halo and Minecraft, should be the first step.

Likewise, 3rd person is a mess. Which is inexplicable, since 3rd person action has been pretty well defined for almost 20 years now, so there's no shortage of inspiration.

[steel loom]

On the Chivalry and Dark Messiah examples it's a bit questionable since most of the combat focus is between humanoids. Even Dark Messiah's dragon battle is a specific setpiece (you kill it by dropping a gate on its neck)

[pulsar root]

Don't base it on Dark Souls or Kingdom come delieverence is my asking. Cause I'd rather have typical Skyrim combat but better, then those.

[noble verge]

If it's Hammerfell, I'd like to see a Systres DLC. It's similar to Solstheim in TES V in the sense that it's not too far away, and is very different in climate and culture to the "main" province.

The biggest problem is that it's small, and assuming Hammerfell would be scaled similarly to Skyrim, Systres would need to be depicted in a different scale, as they did in ESO.

[errant stump]

Oblivion has some of those if you level up your skills... Oblivion was just always geared towards battle mages just like every build in Skyrim ends up being stealth archer

[feral viper]

Oblivion had some incredibly crude, poorly executed attempts at those, further burdened by the terrible control scheme we've had since Morrowind (a scheme which is one of my biggest criticisms of that golden game).

[feral viper]

Absolutely. I think using Skyrim as the bedrock, and building from there, is probably the healthiest way forward not just for the combat, but for most systems..

[errant stump]

I don't agree with this, I think this is a hindsight view. they were fine and not poorly executed for the time... sure there's things they could have done with modern viewpoints but that's not the viewpoints they were working with they were working with 2002-2006 viewpoints

[feral viper]

If I had not held that opinion since Oblivion came out originally, I would agree with you.

But this isn't a new perspective on my part. It's been my stance since well before Skyrim came out (the first time).

Been at this a very long time. And I've always had a low opinion of basically everything Oblivion did.

[small sage]

the herbs vanish when you pick them! now you will know when you pick something!

or the plant picture looks the same as the plant so thats always fun @-@

[swift gazelle]

I yearn for the day when bethesda ditches the creation engine

[half igloo]

highly doubt that ill ever happen

[swift gazelle]

I mean of course most of bethesda is stuck in the early 2000s in terms of video game programming

[pulsar root]

They aren't going to ditch an engine they've updated since the early 2000s. You misunderstand game engines.

[feral viper]

Not since the early 2000s. They made it bespoke (mostly) for Skyrim, and have been updating it since. So late 2000s really.

But otherwise, I agree

[swift gazelle]

ah yes the if it works don't fix it engine they made 22 years ago but then adopted it 14 years ago

[feral viper]

As I explained previously, the engine isn't the problem. It's never been the problem. BETHESDA is the source of the things people explain about.

[swift gazelle]

yes

[feral viper]

This is very clearly evidenced by the fact that even other games made with Gamebyro, do NOT have the same problems as Oblivion, Fallout 3, or later Creation games.

[pulsar root]

You don't just abandon an engine and make the same game. Thats not how it works. There would be way more problems if Creation engine was just abandoned.

[feral viper]

Nor does changing the engine instantly correct active design choices that people disagree with.

Even if they used UE5, they'd have many of the same 'problems'. And on top of that, they'd probably have new problems.

[swift gazelle]

UE5 the engine that does not like to run correctly with older hardware

[pulsar root]

So I've heard.

[swift gazelle]

i mean it wont be a problem anymore since drivers support for the 10 series gpus was stopped back in january

[half igloo]

biggest problem is that Unreal 5 started using streaming assets as a way to handle nano sized meshes and textures vs loading the whole world at once

older machines but particularly machines using a Harddrive vs a SSD really struggle to stream such massive assets every nanosecond

[swift gazelle]

i mean yeah hdd can no longer handle new games nowadays

like come on ssds aren't expensive anymore for example 1tb is like $80-90

[eager remnant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqymg_prARI&pp=ygUPY3JlYXRpb24gZW5naW5l0gcJCYQJAYcqIYzv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCxKtkeoJiY

[stark cipher]

I explained this to this person already they don’t care lol 😂😂

[swift gazelle]

my only complaint with skyrim is that they should've never added a weapon and armor crafting mechanic

[stark cipher]

Yeah if durability wasn’t implemented I don’t see the point either but it’s the medieval culture aspect they wanted I guess lol if you can call it that

[swift gazelle]

my fix would've been to do what they did with oblivion aka Armorer

like its not that bad to lvl like just repair enemy armor and weapons then drop them after killing

I just Hope elder scrolls 6 does not bring back smithing

[feral viper]

Crafting as a mechanic isn't so much the problem, it's the overly linear gear progression and poor use of it that is.

As a mechanism for greater equipment variety and variables, it's great.

But if you just have linear equipment sets, it's a pretty rubbish inclusion, because it allows you to easily just bypass the acquisition of better gear by easily making it yourself.

Some slight tweaks to how Fallout 4 and Starfield handle crafting could make it so equipment in future games vastly outstrips the customization of Morrowind by orders of magnitudes.

[feral viper]

It's like evidence for God. I'll care when someone makes a good point.

Though no, Oblivion doesn't have those features.

It lacks active dodging, relying on % chance automation. And no, just backpeddlinng is not dodging.

It lacks Parrying entirely.

It lacks precision, though this isn't unique to it and is a chronic problem across Bethesda's Games.

It has middling Control options, hamstrung by the terrible direction attack controls we've had since Morrowind.

It lacks real weapon differentiation (though so did Morrowind).

And it has the worst magic system in the entire franchise, with an always-on, zero commitment, you-have-to-actively-hate-beinf-effective spellcasting model.

What you get instead of that, are some lame 'abilities' that don't make up for the loss in Skills from Morrowind, and present predictable, linear progression lines with zero choice or character diversity.

[errant stump]

It does have active dodging though... Maybe you're thinking of Morrowind or maybe you never actually played the game more than getting out of the sewers

[feral viper]

It's got that stupid roll. Which is not a Dodge.

Rolling in general is one of the dumbest trends in gaming, and needs to be buried in a shallow grave off the Trans-Canada.

A Dodge is a quickstep in a direction. Not rolling around on the ground like a toddler.

And for the record, despite my contempt for the game, I still have over 200 hours in it. I gave it far more of a fair shot than it ever deserved.

[midnight stag]

Anybody think that Bethesda might show up at Comic-Con

[feral viper]

Frankly, dodging was better in Thief than it was in Oblivion. Though in Oblivion's defense there, dodging was about the only combat skill Garett had. It's called Thief, not Fighter.

[feral viper]

The biggest problem is, melee has gotten WORSE in Bethesda games.

Yes, Fallout 4 and Starfield are mostly shooters, but sweet Jupiter the melee combat in them is atrocious.

So a lot of work needs to be done. And none of Bethesda's Games are good enough in that regard to serve as inspiration. So it's time to go outside.

Though in going outside, as @pulsar root indicated, I don't think bully-games like Dark Souls, or attempted historical sims like Kingdom Come, are necessarily where one should go, outside.

[tardy tiger]

Dark Souls has too much impractical rolling

[feral viper]

Rolling makes Space King cry.

https://tenor.com/view/space-king-spaceking-warhammer40k-warhammer-40k-gif-3981186648276753091

[sudden temple]

Yo that would be so cool make it a melee and a thrown weapon

[primal olive]

spears aren't thrown !!!!! you're thinking of JAVELINS ARGHH

[pulsar root]

Blades(And no not the faction)

[sudden temple]

I know that xD but it's something new say instead of blocking with the spear when you don't have a shield you throw it like a javelin

Something else I would might like to see would be weapons that are picked up with a telekinesis spell when they are thrown at the enemy do the damage of the weapon I have no idea how you would calculate it but I think that would be pretty cool to give telekinesis away to be slightly offensive the hypothetical of telekinesis and arrow off the ground and throwing it

[rain spire]

it crazy elder scroll online released in 2014 and it still being supported thats pretty amazing

11 years

[small sage]

spears can be thrown but you shouldnt really throw your main weapon unless your name is Chris Hemsworth.

[feral viper]

Depends on the situation. A Spear is only useful up to a point, if you need to throw it and draw your sword, do so.

A general issue with fantasy is the monolaroty of weapons. No self respecting soldier would ever only have a single weapon.

You train in the art of death, and learn to use the tools of death to apply them to any situation you need.

At me minimum, a competent fighter would have a pre-engagement weapon (bow, javelin, sling) a primary weapon (usually a spear) and a secondary weapon (usually a sword, though axes and maces were also used) and a last resort weapon (some sort of dagger)

In the case of single combat, if the enemy is closing inside the effective range of a spear, back up and throw it. That action alone usually gives you the room to draw your secondary weapon.

Effective range being half the length of your spear. Any closer, and your adjusted grip is going to impair your ability to maneuver the weapon, making you more vulnerable

[livid ingot]

I think you would only throw your spear if your opponent was attempting a ranged attack of their own, or was running away from you. If they got past your point you'd only really have time to block with it. If you can back up, they'd still be in range of the point, so no need to throw it.

Spears are incredible weapons though. They really get the short shaft when it comes to lots of popular media featuring them. Very easy to learn, extremely deadly, and using them together in formation solves their main vulnerability.

In some sense it makes sense they don't show up as adventurer weapons since they're really battlefield weapons - you can't sheathe a spear. But this is also true for other weapons that make the cut, like large warhammers, so imo it's not a good reason to keep them out of TES:6.

[small sage]

spears are a good weapon but the king of weapons is the sword. Nearly every weapon in existance has a purpose beyond combat capability, except the sword. The sword is the king of weapons and meant for war.

also whatcha think of my new name and picture, more fitting of me yes?

[swift gazelle]

kinda shocking that the only time we've gotten to see summerset isles was ESO

[small sage]

I would love to visit the summerset isles in their own game but alas.

[swift gazelle]

same

[gleaming flume]

They should add a giant centurian to Oblivion. For no particular reason. Also different grades of skooma.

[fallow forum]

Anyone play Daggerfall Unity?

[steel loom]

A bit, did some dungeon crawling from time to time. Most of my playtime is on the OG

[sharp reef]

👁️👄👁️

[gleaming flume]

What up my hoonding!

[sharp reef]

Chillin with Yagrum Bagarn possibly hitting some moon sugar lines with the Fyr harem wbu

[gleaming flume]

Achieving chim after hitting that Elseweyr full moon special is my top go to on a Mundus afternoon

[sharp reef]

Yeah about that whole chim thing… I’m gonna need to make a trip up to red mountain here pretty soon.

[gleaming flume]

Come, sweet Neravar, let us toke like we once did before Kagrenak and his band of short kings experimented with forces beyond comprehension

[sharp reef]

The 6th house will need a divine intervention after I hotbox that Dwemer cog factory you live in bro. Vivec might stop his slam poetry competition when he hears we’re coolin it like real N’wahs again.

[gleaming flume]

The House Unmourned will be levitating over the ghost fence by the end of the night. Sotha Sil's gunna leave that snowglobe just to witness what we've achieved.

[sharp reef]

True that Ald’ruhn isn’t gonna be experiencing a regular ash storm that’s for sure. I can see the cliff racers descending the mega stank now.

[prime sluice]

Is ESO fun? Or good?

[bright siren]

I’ve been trying to get into it again recently. I’m enjoying myself, though I’m kinda new to MMOs and it’s a tad overwhelming

[eager remnant]

ESO is my third-favorite Elder Scrolls game (after Morrowind and Skyrim). I think it is both good and fun. But "good" and "fun" are subjective. Your best bet is to watch a few Youtube Let's Play videos and decide for yourself.

[small sage]

Dagoth! what a pleasure to see you! Come join me for tea and cheese, I have the finest skooma and moon sugar tea and moon sugar cheeses

[gleaming flume]

I can never tell what form Sheogorath is in and no matter how much skooma I slurp, it doesn't get any less confusing.

Yea, lets have some cheese too, my daedric home slice.

[small sage]

serves tea and cheese Dig in

[gleaming flume]

https://tenor.com/view/morrowind-oomfie-dagoth-ur-gif-24760373

[feral viper]

Not entirely wrong, though it's important to also remember that swords have very rarely ever been the primary weapon of war. Even the martial classes we most associate with them (Knights, Samurai, etc) used them as a sidearm.

Their primacy was amongst the Legions more than any other period, where they served as the primary weapon of war.

In this regard, the Spear has been paramount. Some variation of it has been the main weapon of war for the longest period of history, across widely different cultures. You can even blend it into the early modern era, as a Rifle with a Bayonet is basically a spear.

BUT, Spears also have some strong limitations. They're very useful on a battlefield, but they're terrible in close spaces.

[agile mirage]

Has Anyone else here checked out the Travels:Oblivion PSP Build that's floating around on the web? It's Really Cool

[coarse veldt]

Bring jeremy soule back for elder scrolls 6

[small sage]

true but a spear can be used outside of war to hunt you cant really use the sword in anything but conflict as it is too long for things. You make very good points, and I agree with several of your key points and you are right, spears have a use even today in an age of ranged combat reigning supreme.

[sick pollen]

Is the game still popular in servers for xbox

Why did you message get deleted lol

[eager remnant]

Which game are you referring to?

[sick pollen]

Oh my bad I thought this was eso online sorry

[dim reef]

It's no longer a roll in the remaster, it's a step dodge. The issue with it is that currently animation cancelling is inconsistent and theres no I-Frames.

[feral viper]

Well, you CAN use a sword outside of combat. It's just definitely not optimised for that.

[feral viper]

That's a meaningful improvement at least. Though I'm not keen on I-frames anyway.

Fatshark is, IMO, the master of the melee dodge. But their overall melee combat is geared towards hordes, and wouldn't necessarily translate the same to more controlled combat with only one or a few opponents

[livid ingot]

I agree but there are some tools that can be used identically to swords, like machetes and cutlasses.

In one sense you could say they're swords specialized for non-combat use. Or both combat and non-combat uses.

Of course you can call these things long knives but a sword is just a long knife specialized to kill/wound rather than do work

[feral viper]

Indeed. And swords are incredibly diverse, further blurring the line between a Sword, and just a big Knife.

[pulsar root]

Stabby Stabby

[robust flax]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/260439894298460160/1368401686275821690/image.png?ex=681816e1&is=6816c561&hm=272945e5a2ae0241ee2e04b51852a3b1c3c3564b3418bb064b09e2d61e2161de&

10 hours into a new Morrowind character clearing out the inventory be like

[sly inlet]

You can play it?

Dm if you have a link please

[odd glacier]

I really hope they don't rely on the procedural aspects like the weapon customization in fallout 4 and randomized dungeons in star field. The world full of unique weapons and armor is better. I really hope they drop the level scaling in enemies and items. New Vegas felt like the best compromise it felt like a hybrid.

[brisk birch]

I think it's about the same for me too. 3rd for ESO, 2nd Skyrim and 1st Oblivion.

And I have to take breaks from ESO a few months at a time because it gets a bit repetitive. Especially with challenges and stuff. Like the current golden pursuits this month. So many repetitively tedious tasks like killing the same public dungeon boss 10 times when they take 20 minutes to respawn... It's mind numbingly awful. Sure there's a free house as the final prize but who knows if it's actually worth getting?

[silver turret]

I have only played ESO,skyrim and now oblivion

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-steve-carell-the-office-cringe-gif-17778800

[tight charm]

I think my favorite is ESO. I love the world ZOS crafted, and the stories they’ve chosen to tell. It does feel a little unfair to compare a MMO to a standard singleplayer game though. Of the non-MMO TES entries, I’d say my favorite is probably Morrowind. Skyrim would be second, followed by Oblivion.

[feral viper]

They really do need to work on the nature of unique equipment, I'll agree. But New Vegas as the best of anything...

[polar tiger]

anyone know that to do in the final quest in the thieves guild in oblivion remaster i had exit the tower and now im locked out of it. im playing on ps5 so i cant use console commands. if they dont fix it i need to begin new game again with all faction done execpt thievies guild

[livid ingot]

You return to the Gray Fox

[polar tiger]

yes but he told me that i need the scroll

[livid ingot]

Oh, you haven't begun the quest yet?

[polar tiger]

yeah i had but then i enter the imperial tower i was attacked and when i sneak they saw me and when i try to sit in the chair it wont let me so i try to exit and reenter and go in through the cave with the arrow again but i need an key to enter

[brisk birch]

Don't get me wrong, I like the world building in ESO a ton. Possibly the most of any game in the series. But it has shortfalls everywhere else, especially how needlessly grindy everything is,and how overpriced all the micro transactions are.. and they are everywhere, especially in the housing system. I have a passionate love/hate relationship with the way housing is done in ESO.

I do wish they could put that precision editing mode into 76 though...

[livid ingot]

Oh, you should just continue through the cave then. You initially enter the palace, but then you enter the sewers and an ayleid ruin before you reenter the palace

[polar tiger]

yeah but now i wast 100 hours of gameplay and had to start over again because i dont know if and when they going to fix it, it was better if they let the statue with the arrow is open to when the wuest is active and close it after the quest

[feral viper]

So, you exited through the front door when you got attacked?

[brisk birch]

Just reload your save and try again. No need to start over at the beginning of a new playthrough

[feral viper]

If they have an appropriate save.

[brisk birch]

Between 3 auto saves, a quick save slot and a regular save slot they should have some sort of option

[polar tiger]

yes i exit to the front door and got caught and i dont have and early save to go to since i did not now yyou can use the lever to thyat open the door to the sprial stair re setts

[livid ingot]

Maybe try this:

In Oblivion Remastered it is possible to initiate this quest without completing any other Thieves Guild quests, or even joining by lockpicking into the Imperial Sewers North Exit and venturing through until you find the entrance to the Palace Sewers. This will add the quest to your journal at stage 50. ?

That might take you where you need to go, bypassing the palace

[polar tiger]

you mean at new game. i can easy find hte way there but i need the arrow to open the door

[odd glacier]

I am only saying that New Vegas uniques seemed like true uniques compared to other bethesda games. The survivalist rifle for example felt way different than the service rifle and looked unique too. I think skyrim has it beat for sheer number of unique items though.

[livid ingot]

Since you're playing on console, maybe the best thing to do then is wait for an official patch to finish the quest

[feral viper]

In that regard, I would still say Morrowind was better by a long shot. Many of its uniques were actively unique, with entirely bespoke models, different reach (which is a mechanic that's gone now) and unique effects.

[livid ingot]

Also if you haven't yet, try asking in #1087805579399004210

[polar tiger]

i read there and more people like me have same issue

[feral viper]

Though I'm also infamously anti-NV, so take my position with a grain of salt.

[tardy tiger]

How big is this grain? Carthage sized?

[feral viper]

Ever see The Expanse?

It's Eros. The grain is Eros. And it has Protomolecule cooties.

[odd glacier]

I really wish I could play Morrowind, maybe one day when if it gets a remaster. I keep hearing that it is by far the best thing bethesda has ever made.

[feral viper]

Yeah. And IMO, it's not even close.

That's not to say it doesn't have it's fair share of problems of course.

But I think Morrowind is the only legitimately great game Bethesda has made.

[odd glacier]

I was far too young to have played it at launch and enjoyed it. Now its probably too late I don't have the patience for the old school mechanics. I have sadly become accustomed to modern accessible game design

[feral viper]

Yeah, the muscle memory and nostalgia helps smooth over those things.

[brisk birch]

What about "Prey" that was a legitimately great game too. And it is one of theirs, at least their version is. I still think the original, which was completely different in every way and by a different studio entirely, was better than the one Bethesda made but that said I think what they made was a legitimately great game. And I say that as someone who was never able to beat it.

[feral viper]

Published by Bethesda Softworks, not made by Bethesda Game Studios.

Generally, when I say Bethesda, I refer to BGS.

IMO, the publisher deserves no credit for a product. Sure, they pay for it, but the actual work is done by the development studio, and they deserve the credit.

[brisk birch]

A fair point

[feral viper]

Totally worth clarifying frome time to time though.

[brisk birch]

Which is another reason I love New Vegas so much because it was made by fallout's creators, Obsidian.

[feral viper]

Eeeh... The less I say about New Vegas, the less angry the Mods are

[brisk birch]

True this is an elder scrolls chat after all but would be cool if one day we got to have some sort of crossover between fallout and elder scrolls.

Even if not some sort of direct link but just some sort of cross promotion event

Could easily be done with cosmetics and things like that available in the atom shop and crown store respectively

[bright siren]

Fairly certain there was a Skyrim creation made for Fallout 4

like you can get the steel sword and iron helmet

[brisk birch]

I think you're right

[feral viper]

Well, it's more that my hatred of that game is the stuff of legends around here, and any time I talk about it, things get very close to the 'No bashing' rule for the channel.

But, specifically to Bethesda, while I think they've only ever made one bad game (Oblivion) I also think they've only ever made one great game (Morrowind).

Everything else has been pretty solidly middle of the road. Which isn't a bad thing, in its own right.

[brisk birch]

Wow.. calling Oblivion a bad game... Yeesh..

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/i-said-what-i-said-nene-leakes-real-housewives-atlanta-rhoa-gif-16456054

[brisk birch]

https://tenor.com/view/then-pay-with-your-blood-oblivion-oblivion-npc-elder-scrolls-you-will-die-gif-20798850

[feral viper]

I am fully aware of how unpopular some of my positions are, though I think I have them reasonably supported enough that the facts bear them out regardless of popular opinion.

That whole thing is a very long-winded topic though, and it's too close to dinner for that.

Entirely unrelated, you'd think after almost 30 years of miniature painting, I would have figured out how to get metallics to behave by now...

[dense marten]

If ESVI is set in Elseweyr can we choose which type of khajiit we are I really want to play as an alfiq

[hidden herald]

Facts are just well supported opinions to approximate the truth, which is immutable

[pulsar root]

My guild leader likes to say "Your entitled to your opinion, not to your own facts."

[errant stump]

I expect nothing from someone who thinks oblivion is a bad game

[feral viper]

Good on ya, set your expectations at rock bottom, and wait for evidence to form an opinion.

That's the only smart way to do things.

[noble verge]

I want to play as a Senche-Raht

[dense marten]

I also like to think that the phases you’re born under will definitely affect your skills

Kinda like the star signs in oblivion

[feral viper]

The less forced Astrology nonsense, the better.

[gleaming flume]

At least these signs actually your character

[feral viper]

And that's always been part of the problem.

Can you NOT be born under a sign? No? Then all you're doing is creating a silly world like that The Orville literally made fun of.

Birthsigns were, are, and always will be Hand-holding.

They didn't trust players with the complexity of Advantages and Disadvantages, and instead gave us compartmentalized packages they could control.

Hell, ESO even had to include lore to deal with the worldbuilding problem caused by them, since EVERYONE being born with those bonuses and powers would be anarchy.

Which only goes to further reinforce that even in Morrowind and Oblivion, you WERE the chosen one from square one, no matter how much people want to pretend otherwise.

But that 'Chosen One' aspect is why they're at least tollerable in Morrowind. Because they are narrative point, one of the first indicators of the Nervarine, and therefore special enough to be worth calling out.

Then in Oblivion, they're just a standard thing now.

[dense marten]

You are being such a tower right now

[midnight stag]

If es6 doesn’t deliver to Xbox series x like it supposed to then people will not be happy

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-mad-furious-fuming-amy-poehler-gif-16689520

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-j-jonah-jameson-gif-24255460

[teal ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-gif-8177135

[feral viper]

Would a troll have an (admittedly out of date and in need of revision) multi page dissertation about how mechanics and how to improve on the format of TES mechanics?

[errant stump]

No way it's doesn't come to Xbox the question is if comes to PS

[teal ravine]

like what? Elder Scrolls can't have souls-combat because that would make either melee, archery, or magic less viable or more viable depending on how they design it... and it would take it from the "immersive sim" RPG roots of the series. (that's primarily 1st person)

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-spongebob-sbso-sbsp-wacky-gif-10150404673915756358

[teal ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/true-its-true-tho-its-true-truth-gif-4494843

[feral viper]

Fiiiine, I'll scroll up and find the link. Probably easier than pulling it up otherwise..

[errant stump]

Elder scrolls changing to dark souls combat would make me not buy it NGL

[feral viper]

I entirely agree.

Anyway, found it. It's all in here.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/7898783-lachdonins-rpg-rambling/#replyForm

[teal ravine]

i scrolled up and read some of what you put, yeah having depth to background choices is the stuff you're talking about?

[feral viper]

Worth noting, I literally call out my disdain for the Souls approach to gameplay, and how it confuses Stockholm syndrome for legitimate challenge.

So, don't for an instant think I want that nonsense.

[pulsar root]

Dark souls combat is.... unfun. Thats the nicest way to say it.

[teal ravine]

DAMN I will say starting off reading this, their definition of RPG is quite a good one. Obviously I don't think there is absolutely one universal definition, but this is a really good one.

[feral viper]

Credit goes to @eager remnant for that one.

[teal ravine]

I literally think this might be the greatest definition of an RPG I've ever read lmao

It covers every single argument and niche type of RPG wrapped up into a single definition

[feral viper]

He came up with it in an old conversation on the Forums regarding what an RPG is, and what it should mean. And I thought it was so brilliant I've been using it for years.

[midnight stag]

So you still think es6 still has a chance of being on Xbox series x

[teal ravine]

This definition genuinely defines Vampire Survivors with JRPGs (which is a huge problem with most definitions of RPGs), and excludes games we all know explicitly aren't RPGs at the same time. Perfect definition or nearly perfect.

[pulsar root]

Its unlikely not to. Unless the next Xbox console comes out by then.

[feral viper]

I honestly can't even remember what my own definition was at the time. Pseron's was so much better I've totally forgotten.

[errant stump]

Depends on when it comes out... But if it's before or just after the next Xbox comes out yes

[teal ravine]

I would hope it doesn't, no offense but I expect ES 6 to be next-gen hardware first. If we do get ES 6 on current Xbox generation consoles, they will have to be lacking in graphics and capabilities.

[teal ravine]

lmao

[feral viper]

Laughs in VoodooII and 800x600i

[teal ravine]

@feral viper what are your thoughts on player freedom? If you think about it a game like BG3 is like 60%+ linear. That's why you can't just skip straight to the end zones of the game.... Um you have to progress through the chapters. Hence linearity.

I think people who are linear fans will probably never truly enjoy an Elder Scrolls game because they will FOREVER be open world and open ended for the majority.

[errant stump]

Genuinely saw someone arguing that JRPG style games weren't RPGs the other day... Sometimes people have opinions bad enough that they're not just wrong but you can just move on from listening to that person at all

[feral viper]

I think it's a complicated topic.

Ideally, I think a game should be designed in such a way that presents challenges, rather than particular paths. If you can get past those challenges, you progress, regardless of how you did it.

That ideal is far harder to achieve than to state though, so it's a complicated balancing act.

[teal ravine]

And this definition clears that up, that they are indeed RPGs afterall. Now "how much" of an RPG is a huge debate... and I'm of the opinion that JRPG itself is it's own subgenre in its own right. So it has its own definition. They're RPGs for sure.

[midnight stag]

How do you think they’ll address vampirism and lycanthropy in the next game

[errant stump]

poorly

[feral viper]

I may have notes in there somewhere.

Though in practice, I agree with Pokeroots.

[teal ravine]

What makes you think this??? Skyrim's Vampirism is the best in the series... and lycanthropy doesn't exist in other games.

[feral viper]

It'd actually been so long since I read through that myself, I can't remember if Afflictions are even in there...

The original copy is a mountain of recipt-paper notes I scribbled over many, many backshifts

[teal ravine]

Idk why people look at Starfield's criticism of their dialogue, character design, and "loading screen simulator" design and be like "YUP! That means the talent trees GONNA BE BAD IN ES6!!!"

Like you're not even being fair and looking at the things Starfield, Fallout 4, and Skyrim did good and just watching YouTubers who only crap on the game forever lol.

[errant stump]

Precisely because of this. Everyone is going to be disappointed that TES VI vampirism/Lycanthropy isn't dawnguard level of fleshed out

[feral viper]

I wouldn't even call that particularly fleshed out. More proof of concept.

But I think Skyrim as a whole is mostly a proof of concept, rather than a well fleshed out RPG.

[teal ravine]

The game isn't even out yet and you're preemptively waiting for your favorite drama youtuber to drop their "ES 6 is dead on arrival" video they'll drop to make a lot of money on because negative coverage of ES 6 will automatically be more profitable for the algorithm than positive... You don't even get that you're a sheep or wheel in the machine.

Don't fall into that crap dude...

[errant stump]

I said nothing even close to that...

[feral viper]

Starfield actually had enough of a formative impact that I really do need to go back and chance some things in that document.

[teal ravine]

Bro no one admits they watch drama youtubers and yet they repeat the discourse they spout and invented awareness and the discussions on in the first place.

But you're right. Maybe I'm hyperbolic. But you did say people are already going to cry about it not being dawnguard level of fleshed out... and that's a possibility for launch. Because maybe they won't have the full talent system like we got for the Vampire Lord... I mean there WONT BE A VAMPIRE lord in the game because we only got that through the questline.

And that's dumb imo. The game shouldn't launch with vampire lords as an option.

or rather, I don't expect ES 6 to launch with vampire lords as a thing to be in the first place. or maybe it will be in the Dark Brotherhood? who knows right?

[errant stump]

I just couldn't get into star field as much as I tried to

[feral viper]

It's definitely got it's problems, there's no honest way to deny that.

But it's about par for a Bethesda game. Though you kinda need to like that sort of Sci-Fi to really engage.

[errant stump]

I was very excited for it... But there was just something that always felt off and unenjoyable to me

Oh well I got it for "free" with a new graphics card

[noble verge]

Except some Birthsigns do carry disadvantages. The Atronach in particular can completely shake up how the game is played- moreso than any trait in Fallout- due to not being able to regen magicka and having an innate ability to absorb it instead.

[teal ravine]

and it's understandable... I already mentioned what you probably didn't like.... The loading screen simulator gameplay, the characters not feeling cool or unique, the 5 minutes to each point of interest, there being no "home base" world to explore and familiarize yourself with, and a few more things.

What surely WASN'T a problem was the raw gunplay (if you could actually do it more often and at a higher than beginning of the game level), the talents, the quality of life features, the raw graphics itself, and the cool immersive details.

Starfield, unlike Elder Scrolls, didn't have decades of a formula and established expectations, features, lore, gameplay, and systems to go off of.

[midnight stag]

It will likely be some alterations to afflictions like vampires and werewolves like werewolves might take on a different form or vampire type

[feral viper]

That's a fair point. Not enough to redeem them wholesale for me, but it's a fair point..

[feral viper]

I'm not sure if it's in that document, but I did play with the idea of applying specialisations to Afflictions as well, to create 3 distinct types of ways to develop your condition.

I've got the notes about it somewhere... I have a hoarding problem when it comes to notes.

[errant stump]

I think I was just hoping for more TES but space over... NASA in space which you know that's on me for wanting something different than what they made

[teal ravine]

What I'm trying to say is that if you're being honest, the criticism of Starfield doesn't necessarily fit what ES 6 could even get wrong... EXCEPT for maybe ES 6's dialogue being bad, the characters being lame, and a few minor things.

Like HOW can you expect TES 6 to honestly have 5 minuts to go from point of interest to point of interest like STarfield??? HOW can you expect us to have the whole "go into orbit, then go into other planet's orbit, then land on planet, do quest, then go into 2 more orbits to quest giver" right??? like ES 6 WONT objectively have 1000 planets full of orbital loading screens???? come on lol

like am I wrong?

[pulsar root]

ES is usually located in one big world Space(On the same planet, not hundreds of them)

[feral viper]

I don't think so. But I think there's a legitimate concern that Bethesda will continue to use loading screens to break up areas, in an era where seamless transition is becoming more and more common.

[errant stump]

Well have mines and ruins and cities

[teal ravine]

the things Starfield did bad are kind of unique to it being a space game... ES 6 won't have orbit to orbit loading screens...

[feral viper]

Buildings, for instance. Any city in TES is effectively Starfield in microcosm.

[teal ravine]

I don't think they will do this lmao.... They only did it because each planet is different. Each planet's orbit is different. You can't load all 1000 planets and the tens of thousands of landing sites you procedurally generate all seamlessley.

[errant stump]

Yeah orbit to orbit is like Anvil to Bruna IMO I don't think it's actually all that unique to space games

[teal ravine]

This is true and TBH I agree...

I hope they do seamless but if they don't I don't think anyone will care. Lots of games still do loading like Baldur's Gate 3. It's not seamless.

But no one cares about that...

BG3 still has loading screens too. And anvil to bruma is a single fast travel.

Fast travel = loading screen. Every game does this.

[feral viper]

Yesh, it's definitely a more complicated topic than just 'Go seamless'

[pulsar root]

I must be old fashioned loading screens don't phase me.

[feral viper]

For me, it depends on the frequency.

[teal ravine]

Exactly.

But Starfield's issue is that between 4 loading screens (planet surface, to planet orbit, to another planet's orbit, to planet surface again) is not directly going to be a thing that TES 6 will be experiencing.

Loading screens will exist, but not to this degree lol

[errant stump]

Yeah I think TES VI will be fine but it won't be without criticisms (loading screens are a bad criticism)

[teal ravine]

but still valid criticism nonetheless. Just not as bad as starfields lmao

Personally I want full seamless buildings. And I HOPE TES 6 doesn't do every city like Starfield's or Cyberpunk 2077s "we're going to generate randomly a bunch of NPCs with no names or interactability that just walk around to populate"

[feral viper]

Yeah, I think even if they keep enclosed Cities, but open up buildings within a city, they'll already have done more than I personally expect.

[pulsar root]

I think having NPCS to populate isn't bad. Better then "Oh there's only these many NPCS here too bad"

[errant stump]

If Bethesda could make a shadow run game I'd be very happy

[teal ravine]

what do you mean "only these npcs here" what's the too bad part?

[pulsar root]

Looking at Skyrim and the # of npcs there is pretty low all considering. I was being a bit snarky, sorry.

[teal ravine]

You're not wrong

Morrowind AFAIK has more NPCs with dialogue you can interact with than Skyrim and Oblivion combined...

[feral viper]

Oh, I should stipulate, that document is from before I quit the setting.

So I don't remember how many narrative of worldbuilding notes I have in there.

[feral viper]

Technically yes, though it has far, far fewer bespoke NPCs. The majority of its NPCs don't actually have unique dialogue or identities, and draw from standard response sets

[teal ravine]

Morrowind should be their base for designing TES 6 tbh, Oblivion and Skyrim should be things they look to for HOW the series evolved and take from it the things those games did best overall.

[feral viper]

Skyrim for Mechanics. Morrowind for worldbuilding and style.

But TES has basically abandoned having its own identity, so that's a pipe dream.

No, no

https://tenor.com/view/slap-slapping-self-slap-your-face-gif-15358839

Stop with the lore criticisms! You quit, don't start being toxic!

[pulsar root]

Minus the kill the wrong NPC and the threads of fate breaking thing. xD

[errant stump]

I mean everyone who made TES has left the company

[feral viper]

And those that are left are...

Nope, no. No taking the bait.

The mods are always watching.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-viralhog-cute-im-watching-you-security-guard-gif-20604758

[errant stump]

I mean it's probably hard to take over a world you didn't help establish without making it feel like a fan fic

RIP Fallout

[feral viper]

Anyway, it's 11pm and i have work in the morning.

If you read any more of my rambling, feel free to criticise and critique.

But I hope it makes the point that, despite my complaints, I am not in fact a troll. And I've spent an unhealthy amount of time thinking about this stuff.

[teal ravine]

wtf lol

[feral viper]

Oh I know, that can be infuriating right? Sometimes you don't even know what it picked up on.

I've gotten into the habit of copying long posts before confirming, just in case.

[pulsar root]

ES>Fallout and this was before I started dipping out of FO

[errant stump]

3 and (especially) 4 are just so different from what the others are

[manic kernel]

I love how people can start out wanting to play a specific class but then most of us start playing a stealth archer 💀

[errant stump]

I mean in skyrim sure, oblivion is battlemage

[livid ingot]

Yeah if you're not playing a mage of some stripe in Oblivion, you're missing out on half the fun

[errant stump]

especially with the craig

[livid ingot]

Heck as a mage you can basically play every class

[errant stump]

fortify skill 100 XD

[livid ingot]

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic. 👌

[errant stump]

I do like archering. but yeah battlemage is the way

[livid ingot]

There was an Oblivion mod back in the day that let you channel spells through your arrows. No enchanting needed. That was a lot of fun. 😁

[errant stump]

I normally enchant soul trap onto my weapons 😅

[odd glacier]

Why are the Elderscrolls Online cinematics so good.

The art style seems far more grim dark compared to the games. Everything looks scarier.

[brisk birch]

If only the game actually played like that. It'd be one of the greatest games of all time.

[violet lily]

IMHO the style of TESO is closer to Morrowind than any of the other games, it's a lot of why I like it

[brisk birch]

Can you imagine what it'd look like in unreal engine 5 though? It's nearly as old as oblivion after all. Just imagine it getting a graphics overhaul

[violet lily]

I'm actually not a fan of the aesthetic of UE5, to be honest. Something about it doesn't vibe right for me and I haven't put a finger on it yet.

[brisk birch]

Well any modern graphics engine then. I used UE5 as a point of reference because of oblivion specifically.

[feral viper]

UE5 doesn't it's self have an aesthetic, but it is really good at attempting photorealism. So most developers seem to lean into that to capitalise on its abilities.

It's not necessary though, you COULD do pixel art with it.

Really, the k my thing stopping anyone from having stylised visuals is art direction.

Which, IMO, TES has none of.

[clear garden]

I haven't played the remastered yet

But anyone who played it
What are somethings you could say skyrim improved over oblivion aside from the graphics

Like do yall still find yourself preferring how skyrim plays over oblivion

[eager remnant]

I prefer nearly everything Skyrim does over what Oblivion did. Over all, I honestly cannot think of anything that I think Oblivion did better than Skyrim. I can enjoy Oblivion, however, with a boatload of gameplay-changing mods. And so far I am enjoying the remaster.

[feral viper]

I'm with Pseron on this one. I think that Skyrim is an improvement over Oblivion in every way, except for story pacing.

Skyrim's stories are rushing like a 14 year old running for the school bus.

[errant stump]

TESO is newer than Skyrim vanilla

[midnight stag]

I wonder how close combat will work will it be more decisive and broader in es6 like finishers in Skyrim

[errant stump]

Magic. Skyrim magic is sad compared to Oblivion IMO

[livid ingot]

Oblivion had better quality books too

Skyrim had an abnormal number of stinkers

[errant stump]

Yeah anything to do with writing was worse ~~almost like all the actual TES writers had left the company by that point or something ~~

[pulsar root]

There are elements of Oblivion to me that I believe are better(How you cast Magic in Oblivion). Skyrim. The level scaling(The original) is funky, Skyrim handles it better but I forgot how they do it.

[livid ingot]

Oblivion also had better clothing. Way more diverse and colorful than Skyrim

[midnight stag]

And what you might not know about oblivion remastered is Bethesda didn’t really work on it they just passed the batton and still had their brand name on it to make profit

[errant stump]

I think everyone knows that

[pulsar root]

That was obvious my dude.... not some malice there.

[feral viper]

I very much disagree. While it's explicit power made magic extremely potent in Oblivion, I think it was mechanically the weakest.

[midnight stag]

Yeah so I don’t know how it effects es6 at all like people are saying release date

[feral viper]

At least Morrowind makes you put your weapon away to cast, Oblivion doesn't even do that. It presents you with literally no downside, trade off, or decision making to spells. They're just an always on, no consequence, I'm stronger option.

Structurally, Skyrim's approach also allowed for far more variability in spell behaviours and mechanics. Half it's spells would be strictly impossible to create in Oblivion, whereas everything in Oblivion was functionally the same sort of on-target effect delivery system.

Now, despite its superior system, Skyrim really suffered from a failure to USE that system particularly well.

It had far too few spells, and far to few effects, to really showcase the structural superiority.

[errant stump]

Yeah but I never had fun using magic on Skyrim... And that's just unforgivable for me .

[feral viper]

Yeah. 3d printing has given me the best analogy for the difference I've ever had.

Oblivion was play-dough. Everyone's familiar with it, everyone loves it, and they gave you a dragon made of it.

Skyrim was a 3d Printer. Better in every way, but they only used it to make a spoon.

[radiant moss]

I disagree with the idea that open-weapon casting is a bad idea but it should generally be reserved for smaller/less offensive spells; healing or minor destruction spells, focused magery should be no-weapon spells. Do wish they'd play with the distinction at some point.

[livid ingot]

In Oblivion, you have to make a choice whether or not to wear armor as a mage, because it affected the effectiveness of your spells.
In Skyrim you can wear all the armor you want and there's no downside.

[errant stump]

Or you could only use offensive magic if you were using a light weapon like a dagger

[livid ingot]

Zero reason to ever wear Mage's Robes in Skyrim

[feral viper]

I think it's something that could serve as a perk to work up to, as well.

Like, there's lots of ways to improve. My overall point was that I think Skyrim was an improvement. It's not the end goal.

[errant stump]

I don't think it was an improvement though. They both have ideas I would say are better than the others but I wouldn't say Skyrim is better or an improvement. It's at best a lateral move

[feral viper]

Fair enough

[errant stump]

Hope that TES VI takes the good from both... But knowing Bethesda they'll make an entirely different system that's not any of that

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-now-for-gif-5780059

Sometimes I legitimately think Bethesda's internal design is a Monty Python sketch. Except not hilarious

Some of the decisions just... Baffle me.

Starfield's Dialogue system for instance.

Let's react to Fallout 4s criticism by merging Oblivion's grotesque super zoom, and Skyrim's lack of pausing.

What could go wrong?

[errant stump]

Maybe I should reinstall star field... Maybe it has good mods now

[feral viper]

Here's a hot take to get everyones jimmies is a bundle.

Fallout 4s Dialogue System was actually brilliant.

It was just poorly used.

[livid ingot]

I've never played Fallout games.

[errant stump]

The idea for it was OK... But your dialogue not even matching some of the choices was atrocious

[feral viper]

Absolutely. It arbitrarily limited options, made virtually no use of nested options, and unnecessary hamstring it's self to mimic BioWare's cinematic back and forth camera.

And it's clear the actual choices were written in isolation from the script, and never actually compared or proof read.

But the basic system was brilliant, and had so much potential. If only it was used better.

It's underlying ability to move seamlessly from conversation, to other activities, and back, without requiring a control-locked interface that effectively pulls you out of the game, had so much potential...

Potential that was just thrown in the bin for the dumpster fire that is Starfield's dialogue system.

Not just for TES, but for all future Bethesda games, they need to go back to FO4s approach and actually polish up the execution to make it shine.

[errant stump]

Yeah no... I still prefer any other dialogue system we've already had than the FO4 ideas. Like I said the idea was okay but it's strictly worse than just actually selecting your dialogue

[tight charm]

Starfield’s dialogue system was preferable to me, honestly. Though I actually prefer the setting where you can disable the zoom-in.

[pulsar root]

I never had an issue with it, I think the actual problem(Which usually isn't said often cause gamers) is the more variety of types of reactions other then "Mature response" "Snarky response"

[feral viper]

Right, I'm done work so can get a bit more wordy with this now.

The core mechanical differences between Fallout 4s approach, and more traditional approaches seen in basically every other Bethesda game, is how it handles inputs.

Traditionally, when you enter dialogue you functionally enter a mini-game. The controls are entirely co-opted by the dialogue interface, locking you in. It uses primary inputs (Look and Move) as well as Secondary (Select/action) in order make your selections.

Fallout 4 didn't do this. Instead, it used contextual menus to bring up a context-sensitive menu which then used secondary inputs (not Look or Move controls) to make the selections.

Now, it then ruined this with the god awful cinematic camera, but that's a whole other thing...

The Fallout 4 system allows you to seamlessly move between basically all aspects of the game except for Inventory or Menu Management. You never lose movement controls, and any action is just a few kilometers of mouse or joystick movement away.

Better use of Fallout 4s system would allow you to walk into a bar, order a drink, chat up a fellow patron while looking around the room, spot a pickpocket, walk away from the conversation to chase him outside, confront the pickpocket, interrupt the accusation by stabbing him in the throat, quicklooting the money, returning it to the victim, and going back to the counter to continue your conversation.

All without ever once being locked in a menu or having to say 'Goodbye' before you can even do anything about the pickpocket you spotted out of the corner of your screen because you're forced to look at whoever you're talking to.

[noble verge]

Same problem with every Bioware game since ME1.

[noble verge]

Except DAO

[errant stump]

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the system TBH

[feral viper]

I suspect more because of Fallout 4s terrible execution than anything.

You don't even have to have the arbitrary 4 option limitation. A single layer of nesting would give you 12 potential options even if you had a reserved BACK option (16 of you didn't) if you're just using the basic secondary inputs.

If you're using the Numpad or Dpad, that number jumps up to 56, more dialogue options than any RPG has ever needed.

And all accessable with fewer necessary inputs to access than the conventional format.

So, smarter use of FO4s system would give you greater interactivity, more options accessable more easily, and allow for seamless transition between activities.

Of course, that is all dependent on using it smarter. Which is never a given.

[errant stump]

I don't like the system in the Bioware games either... It's a problem looking for a solution.

[feral viper]

Oh, BioWare's isn't any better. The problem was, Fallout 4 hamstrung its own system by trying to slap the BioWare camera nonsense on it, locking it's best features out in favour of that 'cinematic' nonsense, and then failing to utilise it to anything remotely close to its potential.

Trying to be LIKE BioWare is why Fallout 4s use is so bad.

But you don't condemn a tool because it's used wrong. Trying to drive a screw with a hammer doesn't mean the screw isn't the better anchor.

[errant stump]

The camera is not the problem with the system

[feral viper]

The wheel is an arbitrary visual choice that in no way is inherent to the function either

Also, wait, wait, wait. They gave trolls TWO EYES in the Remaster?

[tight charm]

No, they have three eyes. They redesigned the way the third eye looks though, and it’s less noticeable than the other two.

[bold skiff]

Is this a ESO chat aswell..?

[feral viper]

Alright, I am... Less enraged.

[feral viper]

To an extent. There is no dedicated ESO discord I don't believe though. You'd be better off checking their forums.

[bold skiff]

Sorry very new to all this don’t really know how to do all of that. My ESO guild invited me to discord. Ig?

[feral viper]

No worries. Did they invite you to this discord, or to a guild discord?

[errant stump]

This is just general TES chat so yeah

[eager remnant]

I'm guessing your guild probably runs their own Discord. If this is the case you'll need to find out how to access their Discord from them. We don't discuss ESO guilds here. This is a chat for the single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios.

[bold skiff]

Okay thank you greatly

[final jasper]

all hail godd howard

[twin lagoon]

Hear me out the Dunmer are the best elves, the Altmer are all supremacists, and the Bosmer are short.

[feral viper]

Dunmer are the only elves with any effort put into them.

So yes, they are the best by default

Prior to ESO, I could have gone as far as to say they're the only culture with any effort put into them.

But Khajiit and Argonians weren't bad in that regard.

[raw bay]

What do yall think the most powerful protagonist is in the elder scrolls games

[oak dew]

stealth archer

[feral viper]

Technically, the Nerevsrine is the only one to actively fight gods, while still being themselves.

[oak dew]

are dagon and alduin not considered gods

[tight charm]

You don’t fight Dagon yourself, and the Last Dragonborn has help defeating Alduin.

[feral viper]

Exactly. Akatosh fights Dagon (and the Apprentice, though they have to first learn Dagon's Nymic to weaken him) not the HoK or Martin.

And not only does the LDB have help, but Alduin's god-status has basically been dismantled entirely at this point.

[noble verge]

To be fair so do the gods that the Nerevarine fights.

Dagoth Ur underestimates them right up until the Heart is disenchanted because he cannot comprehend that anybody would do that, and Almalexia has been cut off from the Heart for over four centuries.

[feral viper]

Fair. Though it still puts him pretty squarely ahead of the others.

2 (maybe 3) demigods and an aspect of an actual god beats a meanie dragon and 2 powerful mortals, or a bunch of henchmen and one divine champion of a god.

Because Jyg doesn't count. The whole point of that is, you're now Sheogorath, therefore not actually the HoK anymore

So Dunmer Jesus is still winning the race. It's just an actual race how, instead of him being in a supersonic jet while everyone else is on foot

Id give the Nerevsrine the edge on morality too. Because killing gods is honest work, whereas both the HoK and LDB were really just patsy's for tyrants.

[tight charm]

Technically, the Vestige is the strongest at this point. MMO rules for the win! XD

[pulsar root]

Dunmer Jesus is an interesting phrase xD.

[feral viper]

I'm legitimately surprised Dyno didn't pick it up, actually.

[radiant moss]

Definitely Nerevar and LDB like the others say, third-place might be the Eternal Champion? Only problem with my claim there is that it's hard to quantify just how "powerful" Jagar Tharn was when he was defeated due to Arena being rather arbitrary with his skills and it being so early in the series to describe anything about magick (aside from the fact Tharn was a Lich, or what the Jewel of Fire did to augment him).

[feral viper]

Yeah, it's actually surprising just how weak a Hero (and he WAS the Hero, Martin either wasn't, or was a co-Hero) the HoK was in hindsight.

Umaril really his personal peak, and like... He required lots of outside help for that one.

[radiant moss]

well, technically, the HoK is the most powerful over basically all the others if you count becoming Sheogorath as a display of power lol

[radiant moss]

Yeah. Obviously in part to (more or less) being a side observer of the character/story drama involving Martin.

Actually, now that I think again, the EC might be 4th place. The Apprentice is probably 3rd since he/she comes into direct contact with Mehrunes Dagon and banishes him alone. Using the weird name-nymic magic and not in combat, but still traversed like 7 Oblivion planes to get there.

[feral viper]

Yeah, the Apprentice was an unrecognized powerhouse. They've seen more of Oblivion than I think even the Vestige, and actually managed to hold a magical power Dagon's Nymic) that even the Daedra divide up for fear of its power.

If Nymics were more refined, like Enuncia, we'd be able to better judge what exactly that entails, but...

[radiant moss]

also on a side note, "The Apprentice" is such a dumb name considering what happens in Battlespire, why can't he be named "The Last Battlemage" smh

[feral viper]

I know right?

[radiant moss]

Yeah. I wish stuff like Battlespire wasn't brushed under the rug, honestly one of my favorites.

[feral viper]

They're the Ensign Kim of TES. Always an Apprentice, never a Master.

[radiant moss]

lol

[feral viper]

Best joke of Lower Deck's Multiverse plotline was the how every Kim in every universe is still an Ensign. Except for one..

[radiant moss]

haven't seen it unfortunately. reference to the one where he ||dies, right?||

[feral viper]

And if memory serves, he was actually faking it, and it was a piece of corn on his collar and not a pip

[pulsar root]

What year did Arena come out?

[radiant moss]

lol

[radiant moss]

Developed early part of 1990, probably around 1991-1994, came out 1994. Leaked like twice before release though lol

[feral viper]

Nah, the last season of Lower Decks deals with a Multiverse plot. That's sorts poking fun at Alternate Universes as a whole.