elder-scrolls-general-chat

[feral viper]

I cannot comment on the creativity at play. It's unclear if it's a lack of such, a direction issue, leadership dictates, or suits being afraid of straying too far from the zeitgeist. But from what I've seen since Morrowind, I've no reason to believe that they even WANT the creativity and quality standard I hold.

But, if it takes intercultural differences to spark creativity, then I think there's a problem with the lens that's being used. Because you shouldn't need a telescope to find diversity in your back yard.

[pale walrus]

Creativity/in-depth storytelling takes effort. They're sacrificing that in favor of having lots of activities/quests and large maps. That's a shame. Skyrim is a perfect example - so much cultural depth was 'left on the cutting room floor' in favor of simply having more places to go and more stuff to do. Not saying that depth was completely absent from Skyrim, but there's quite a few crucial things that were left out about Nord culture that could have added Morrowind-level depth to the title.

[feral viper]

Some of it also seems to be deliberate. A lot of complaints have, for years, been subject to rumours that things were intentionally left out because of either in-house objections, or a fear of confusing players.

Shor's appearance, and the Nordic Pantheon, for instance.

Whether or not these rumours are TRUE is an entirely seperate matter .

[pale walrus]

HF offers the opportunity to correct that, and within that single province are multiple cultures to explore, either directly or thru what they have left behind. Orcs, Ayleids, Rourken Dwemer, early Yokudan, Nedes and current Redguard all come immediately to mind. Sure would be nice if they took up the challenge.

[feral viper]

An opportunity, yes. But, given ESO's Hammerfell has effectively removed all Ottoman, Carribean and Japanese influences, and is basically just Arabian Nights...

I am not optimistic.

'Had the opportunity' is quickly becoming Bethesda's slogan.

But, that also plays into why I generally dislike Humans in fantasy as a whole.

No one puts any sodding effort into them. They just copy-paste the same parodies of real world cultures into the setting, and call it a day.

[nimble pond]

Not to disrupt the hate train going round here, but the flaw with that is if ppl only think HF is capable, then what about the other provinces huh? Does that mean after HF, no other TES game will ever meet that bc it's not HF?
Furthermore, it's still possible that if it's just HF, ppl are still let down in those expectations.
And frankly, I don't think expectations will ever be met, regardless. Ppl are too ridiculous when it comes to that.

[feral viper]

All provinces have potential. Only one has come close to that potential.

That said, I set expectations, and wants, at different levels.

Expectations are set based on what has been consistently shown.

Wants are set based on the best that has been shown.

And then personal standards tend to be even higher, but that's a whole other thing.

[nimble pond]

No, but it would open up the borders, more variety to mess with. As opposed to it being all altmer, all nords, etc. Just felt closed-in and a bit one dimensional. I don't want to be boxed into one area. I like choice.

[nimble pond]

When I was referring to expectations, I wasn't targeting you specifically. I was referring to what I've seen generally as a whole from the majority of ppl.
I already know how you feel and why you say the things you do in regard to expectations bc you've said it a thousand times 😅💀

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/record-andrewisindie-vinyl-gif-22401868

[nimble pond]

Hm, I wonder if we could record/capture/trap song/sound in-game with some sort of lore-friendly mechanism?
Maybe I could make a track of bandits making various death sounds to listen for my personal enjoyment. I could play it on repeat in my shelter all day long.
Maybe recording could actually be useful and used for various things, like calming wild beasts, attracting something, stealing voices so they can't call for backup or altering their voice so when they go to speak it comes out sounding like a horse, stealing voices so a enemy thinks you are a friendly calling out instead or getting them to open a locked door to let you in, or collecting enough sound to weaponize it into a sound bomb and blast it out like a sonic wave or lay it down as a sort of land mine, etc.
Maybe it could go into some sort of "bard-like" skill tree.

[feral viper]

Some sort of magical mimicry spell would absolutely be possible in-universe.

[pale walrus]

You could have fun with a spell like that. Say you're at a dinner table with some local celebrities and notables. You could project the sound of flatulence to come from various people seated around the table. I'd wait until something like a bean soup was served. 😉

[feral viper]

I'd settle for Soul Gems that actually list their contents again.

[nimble pond]

A soul gem casino! Where ppl come together to gamble the souls of the dead, or do they gamble their own souls instead? Maybe both? Who the owner of the casino is.. nobody knows. Let the gem dice roll.

[pale walrus]

Some sort of underworld syndicate should run the casino. EIther the major owners or players should come from groups such as the Sload, the Black Worm cult and the Ideal Masters.

Should the casino be on Nirn or an oblivion plane?

[nimble pond]

I have no idea who should the owner(s) be..
As far as the casino itself, I like the tone of an "'underworld'" syndicate. Likely "funded" by the Ideal Masters though.
Where should it be? Good question. What I'm wanting to do is actually turn this casino idea into a new joinable faction.
Now we could put it somewhere on Nirn for each province. Or we could put it in an oblivion plane (which I think would be the first faction you can join that is in an oblivion plane? Not sure, could be wrong). A link between it and a Daedric Prince could be suitable. However.. at the same time, I feel like Oblivion realm is getting overused (hated the fact Soul Cairn is an Oblivion plane, but at least it's ruled by a different entity besides same ol' Daedric Princes) and therefore I'm leaning more towards another realm entirely, something suiting an "underworld" tone or a small pocket of it. Like most races have their own afterlife place they go, like Nords and Sovangarde.. but maybe this new place could be a sort of limbo for all? Souls who made some sort of pact to be able to still partly exist in Tamriel, even though they technically died, but are still property of the casino, by contract, unless they can pay off their debt. But you know how that goes.. house always wins. Everything comes with a cost at the casino.
Idk, maybe something like this could be the NEW dark brothethood?

[pale walrus]

Would the casino have a 'residency', like a nightly show by Frank Sinatra or Elvis? Or maybe even Don Rickles? 😉

[nimble pond]

Yea sure, why not. Though I think whatever the show or "entertainment" is, would be a bit more 'ghastly.' Lol

[pale walrus]

OK then........let the residency by occupied by.......ROMPEPROP. 🥳

[wide garnet]

Who?!

[pale walrus]

Look them up on YT. They're a......uhhh.....a kind of light jazz band.

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/saturday-t-he-point-went-over-your-head-pun-stick-animation-gif-8654562

[safe axle]

guys, how do you even chat in eso server? I wanna ask something but theres no general chat in that server

[nimble pond]

It depends. If you are on console, shout into your TV. If you are on PC, shout into your PC monitor. They will hear you 👍

[nocturne stone]

If you would like to discuss ESO, you can do so on our forums: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[bitter kestrel]

This channel is for the Elder Scrolls, if you would like to discuss other games please use #off-topic

[feral viper]

It was specifically intended to call back to the Durability conversation from the other day, but in thinking about it, I doubt it would generate much of a topic, so that's fine.

Ultimately, probably my fault. Not much drive in conversation to fix a pretty universally hated mechanic.

[nimble pond]

With durability, or at least how it's implemented in most games, it's more like "repetitive-chore-of-bore." If they can find a way to make it more engaging and at least somewhat fun rather than a point-click-done mechanic, then I'd be for it. Maybe applying durability elsewhere besides weapon/armor where it might work better (or maybe not, durability is a terrible and outdated game mechanic that needs to be burned, stomped, and utterly destroyed for good) and then coming up with something else to use for a kind of "degradation" upon weapons and/or armor. Like a temporary buff feature (similar to how we sharpen our knives in life and we've already seen grindstones in Skyrim, I just didn't like how it gave a 'permanent' boost). That way if you want a lil more dmg or some other dmg benefit depending on how you sharpen it (like causing/raising bleeding effect, higher crit chance, etc.), then you can totally do that, but if you don't do it, it won't annoyingly hurt your weapon or anything. And this way, you are rewarded for taking care of your gear whenever you feel like it, instead of durability being this annoyingly CONSTANT tick on your back.
Change things up a bit from the norms.

[feral viper]

Yeah, and I think that's the core issue that most approaches to it ultimately fall into. Stalker 2 included.

Durability drops as you play the game. Not because you're doing anything wrong, but just as a consequence of doing what you're SUPPOSED to be doing. And then you just go somewhere (usually a vendor) and click a button to repair and start the cycle over again.

There's no real engagement in the actual loss of durability, or in the act of repairing the item. It's basically just a tedious tax on gameplay.

Some types of games, such as Survival Games, can get away with this, because the collection of materials and the progression of quality is a core part of the gameplay loop. Durability only becomes tedious when your resources are so well established you don't need to actively worry, and by then your gear is usually of such quality that you rarely even HAVE to repair.

[nimble pond]

Totally. Durability really only works in games where that is kinda of the center of things, making it a concern. Like being lost in some survival game where everything little thing is helpful and needed.
However, I think survival games can have other better and more interesting mechanics in them besides durability and still be quality survival games.

[feral viper]

I think it still has value in an RPG, but it needs to be built up from an entirely different angle.

First, it needs to be engaging. It needs to be something that the player actively engages with, and can make decisions around.

Second, it needs to be forgiving enough that it's not a forced, clunky interaction, while also impactful enough to actually matter.

Third, it needs to be relayed in such a way that the player can actually recognise what's going on.

Which isn't exactly a simple task, but not an insurmountable one.

[wind torrent]

i know has been asked many many times, but do you guys think guns will also appear in The Elder Scroll 6?

[feral viper]

I think it's definitely doable in an engaging and lore friendly way... But I personally doubt it.

[pulsar root]

boomsticks but I'd rather they avoid guns in ES.

[wind torrent]

i could see a primitive gun like the guns made from the 1600 era

don't expect assault rifle or a heavy machine gun, but defently i could see dwemer constructs or even something obscure from clockwork city

but knowing how enemies are bullet sponge, i can see guns be just like your regular bow with an arrow

[feral viper]

Nah, earlier. I'd be thinking... 1400s handgonne.

[wind torrent]

hey that could work too as "boomstick"

but i was looking at some ancient weapons, and believe it or not but the ancient romans invented the crosbow too

you needed to reload by inserting the dart, put down, press a mechanism with your own foot and the crossbow is ready to be reused

but still, knowing how we are and how could be the use of guns in a tes game, i can see variants from 1400-1600

[feral viper]

The main issue stems from the general design ethos of Bethesda, in relation to TES.

The relevant firearms are very slow rate of fire, high stopping power weapons.

Problem is, TES has (unfortunately) generally subscribed to traditional RPG perspectives where you pick a favourite type of weapon and use that in every situation.

So, a proper firearm that you use to Alpha Strike, and then discard for something else, doesn't fit with how their combat is designed to flow.

[wind torrent]

And yet we got the crossbow in Skyrim and is close to a gun in term of gameplay

i can see slow guns with high power, but need high time of recharge before we can shoot another bullet

the bow is cheap and is easy to obtain, plus the fire rate can be fast according to our strategy in a fight

[feral viper]

The rate of fire of the Crossbow is very much symptomatic of the problem.

[wind torrent]

what do you mean?

[feral viper]

I mean it reloads way too fast, in order to allow you to fire multiple shots in succession against enemies.

[wind torrent]

i guess this could be done with a specific perk system for the guns

[feral viper]

In reality, a Crossbow with any sort of real stopping power would take nearly a full minute to reload, without modern composite construction.

And even then... You're only getting off a few shots before your fingers bleed from pulling back those strings, as a built in lever reload would be too prone to failure

[wind torrent]

but this is a videogame after all, "realism" could be just a penality for risk of hurting ourself trying to reloading the crosbow

a simple casuality for the cheap models

[feral viper]

Of course. But then you get into the problem of... If the gun is TOO quick, it just replaced Crossbows or Bows.

So balancing the timing and stopping power across options is a complicated thing to do.

I think it COULD be done. But it would require a change in ethos on the design side.

A change I very much support anyway..

[wind torrent]

i can see guns as something rare, not every store sells. You can craft it but you need the ingredients for creating bullets

maybe even an actual ban of guns by local governs because is view as cheating and dwemer blasphemy

already can see daedra trying to make their new gun artifacts

[wind torrent]

what kind of design?

[nimble pond]

With old guns, I'd be okay with it. But as an isolated feature, specific use. Like repeatable hunting extravaganza safari quests or something. Basically give them some sort of fun reason/purpose to exist at all besides as passive lore.

[wind torrent]

i mean, big creatures exist. Some guns could be used to hit the chitine of dangerous crab enemies. Big elephants, giant bugs, dwemer constructs, giant daedra

and because a simple arrow coudn't penetrate the shield of powerfull armors

imagine, the gun damage is real and is his own unique element

[nimble pond]

For big or special mini-boss like creatures, it'd probably require a hunting party/group. Doesn't seem fitting taking something like that down yourself with a firearm.

[wind torrent]

that sounds more a gameplay for a multiplayer game like ESO. But i would prefer more for TES 6 gameplay.
Hey in games like Fallout 3,4 and 76 we took down a lot of enemies with guns. But in 76 show how a party with online players can took down big behemoth monsters.
I don't see the problem if a gun can be used too in a TES 6.
Guns are op? Nah, need just ballance. Even the skillfull of the snipers can be easly killed by a angry dragon or a running mammouth ready to strike you

[nimble pond]

Idk. It just feels out of place with the tone & atmosphere.
Which is why I suggested the side thing for it. And if you gonna hunt massive creatures using guns, then yea, you'd probably be with a party of NPCs. Like a safari, for sport and recreation of guns. I can't think of any other benefit to adding guns to TES.

[nimble pond]

It's not that they'd be OP, in fact I think firearms would be quite the opposite in TES world.

[wind torrent]

think also in TES we usually play solo, is rare to have companions we actually care. Unless there is one charismatic with appeal. But would be cool if we can have multiple companions rather than a dog and one humanoid npc

[nimble pond]

Way I figure it, if you're not hunting massive or colossal-sized creatures, you could probably hunt solo. If you are, then probably a hunting party of 3 or 4 NPCs.

[primal olive]

someone made Gelebor on Roblox???

[wind torrent]

if bethesda could implement hiring 4 NPC and one animal to our party would be a massive improve. Mods show how is easly to have multiple companions at once with no real repercution and i think could be fun in term of interactions with our party members, our choice and and who we are.
But again, usually most players play solo. Companions need to have better benefits and perks if we really want use them in a fight

[feral viper]

Basically, one in which a characters identity and role isn't defined by the weapons they use. But rather, weapons are tools, useful in particular situations, and a Character is effectively a toolbox.

Things like 'Im a rogue, i use daggers' is a Gigaxism that needs to go away.

[wind torrent]

gigaxism? what do you mean by that?

[primal olive]

stereotype maybe

[wind torrent]

i see, sometimes is cool but maybe i want play something different.

[primal olive]

my issues with the class stereotypes is

in ESO for example nightblades were adventurers but they're only shown as edgy blood murderers lol

[nimble pond]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/810s8XlF-aS._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.jpg

[wind torrent]

but that works for ESO. In skyrim you can be multitask. Depends only in what kind of build you are trying to create. Why people confuse a MMO with a single player RPG is beyond my comprehention

[feral viper]

An idea Gigax came up with, that makes no sense, is actively detrimental, or is outdated, and that we continue using simply because we always have.

[primal olive]

my complaint was the misrepresentation

[wind torrent]

i mean, we can create hybrid classes and that's fine. Pure class can exist just like new specialities

[feral viper]

Nah, Classes themselves are a terrible construct. That's not how professions work, that's not how knowledge works, and that's not how the world works.

And the baggage that comes with them has actively impaired roleplaying and player interactions since day one.

Skyrim took the first step by getting rid of Classes. Now the next step is to undermine the detrimental habits of RPG players by forcing them out of their comfort zones and making them use the meat between their ears.

The current design ethos is, basically:

Encounters are Problems, Characters are tools to solve problems.

When to should be:

Encounters are Problems. Characters are TOOLBOXES, and the Player needs to determine which tools at their disposal are best used to solve the problem.

[noble verge]

I liked how the FromSoft games did classes- determines starting gear and stats but doesn't really dictate how you move forward.

Starfield's backgrounds were pretty similar in that regard, minus the gear.

[feral viper]

Indeed. Though I'm more on the Starfield side of things, because the only thing Fromsoft makes that I like is Armoured Core.

Everything else might as well not even exist.

[eager remnant]

"Characters as toolboxes" just doesn't fit the way I typically play these games. While it might be okay for a first character (my first character tends to be a jack-of-all-trades "test" character), the more I play a game the more I tend to specialize. I've played mages who cast only frost or fire or lightning or disease spells, rogues who only used daggers, who used only bows, warriors who used only two-handed swords or only two-handed axes, and so on into infinity.

Creating niche, specialized builds such as these is what keeps me replaying these games after thousands of hours. Specializing in this way helps to make each character feel a little different than the last character I played. So, frankly, if Bethesda ever did implement a "player-as-toolbox" approach to gameplay I would mod it out of my game as soon as I was able, so that I could roleplay the kind of idiosyncratic fantasy characters I like to roleplay.

[feral viper]

See, that's what I do, and that's why the Toolbox approach speaks to me.

Because character building is all about building the toolbox. And then confronting problems is about figuring out how to use those tools effectively.

The trick is having enough options that allow you to construct varied and distinct toolboxes.

And that's where traditional systems ultimately fail. They assign toolboxes based on Class, dictating your options and limiting both character diversity and player decision-making.

[nimble pond]

I'd like only a few, not many, but moments during quests where the choices aren't too great. Like no matter which choice you make, different versions of doom awaits depending on which choice you made. Let there be a few hard/difficult moments.

[pale walrus]

You mean like a Scylla-Charybdis, rock and a hard place choice?

[nimble pond]

Ig. You know how it is where there is an answer for everything that makes it better. Meh. Sometimes you have to make hard decisions.

[wind torrent]

Still, i would like to see a "Archibugiere" class

[pale walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-no-nope-gif-5413974953753901704

[feral viper]

Early firearm infantry, armed with an Arquebus.

[wind torrent]

pretty much

[noble verge]

Arquebusier?

[feral viper]

Synonym for the same thing, yeah.

[nimble pond]

Archbusters

I'm more interested in explosives, boom-boom. Even if it involves magic mixed with other highly explosive substances. Close & long range.

[pale walrus]

Question (this is not a criticism:) Why is anyone interested in firearms - even very limited and primitive ones - for the ES setting? We've already seen crossbows and, of course, the magical ranged attacks such as fireballs and lightning bolts and 'snowballs.' What is it about firearms that provides you satisfaction beyond what exists already? Again, just an innocent question.

[nimble pond]

Probably for the same reason people play so many different roles. Different tastes, preferences. There's really no "why" to the question, just is.

[nimble pond]

I wonder what would happen if we drank Hist Sap mixed with Nuka-Cola Quantum..
Temporarily reach "God/Goddess" status with unmatched power?

[wide garnet]

My best guess… a great big, giant mess.

[primal olive]

diluted hist sap with radioactive chemicals and excessive sugar

probably a weird high like skooma

[hidden herald]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout76-nukashine-drunk-alcohol-moonshine-gif-24996483

Still think that drinking that should have sent you straight to the Skyrim intro sequence

[nimble pond]

Imagine if a dragon drank it. Probably be blasting radioactive rainbows.

I'm betting Nazeem has cousins in High Rock & Hammerfell.

[feral viper]

Depends on the Hist Sap. In still not convinced that the Blackwood Company wasn't a weapons test.

[wide garnet]

That’d be pretty funny to see.

[lethal prairie]

is skyrim the only game with pc game pass achievements?

im a fallout player looking for which one to start with

also whats TES Online? is that like the TES version of fallout 76?

[stark flower]

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home

[lethal prairie]

is it not on pc through the xbox app?

[stark flower]

I guess it isn't. You can purchase it for PC on Steam and on the website through the standalone launcher.

[hidden herald]

I think it's on sale through December 4th, at least on Steam

[lethal prairie]

is it canon in the lore?

im starting with skyrim regardless though since its the only one with xbox achievements on pc

[feral viper]

It is currently regarded as canon though, whether people like it or not.

[noble verge]

In terms of the lore, ESO has been pretty much carrying the series since it came out, since we haven't had a mainline TES game in over a decade.

And during the wait for TES 6, ESO has visited every province in Tamriel, as well as multiple realms of Oblivion, a bunch of locations in Skyrim not in TES V, such as Blackreach caverns under The Reach and Haafingar, and turned the Clockwork City from the simple linear dungeon of TES III into an actual city.

[nimble pond]

I want an unique player home I can literally carry in my pocket. Toss it out and hop in anytime I want it.

[livid ingot]

I feel like there was a mod for one of the games that did something like this. There are of course a lot mods that let you instantly teleport (as opposed to fast travel) to your house. But I think there was one that featured a magical house you carried on your person and could drop on the ground or something

Don't ask though, I just have a vague memory of seeing something like that

[eager remnant]

Yes, your memory is correct. There were several for both Oblivion and Skyrim (I think for Morrowind too). A search for "pocket dimensional home" brings up a number of them.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-capsule-corp-capsula-gif-15578254

When you said it this is what I thought of >.>

[wide garnet]

That reminds me of something I saw on Scooby-Doo once.

Shaggy: * having difficulty setting up Scooby’s tent * What the heck kinda tent is this, Scooby?

Scooby: Rup tent.

Shaggy: Pup tent? I might have known.

—After the tent is finally opened—

Shaggy: It looks real comfortable.

Scooby: * sticking his head in * * confirming noises *

Pup tent: * collapses on his head *

Scooby: * struggling noises *

Shaggy: Now, what did ya do that for?!

[wind torrent]

i was looking at awoved and that game seems similar to skyrim but we can have also guns too

a similar mechanic could fit in a next tes game at this point

[feral viper]

As a general rule, I do not buy Obsidian games. But the chatter around Avowed has made me lean towards trying it, if for no other reason than spite.

So we shall see if I find anything particularly valuable in their approach to various conceptual and mechanical problems.

I doubt it will change my position in TES serving as the best foundation for a true RPG revolution, but you never know.

[nimble pond]

These are more like the "camps" feature though than a full pocket home.

[spare anchor]

#off-topic

[feral viper]

Indeed. The game it's self isn't particularly relevant, only what potential insights it can give to improving TES. Or, at least, improving the TES formula.

[feral viper]

Though, that could really be said about any game. You'd be surprised where insight can spring from.

[ripe plank]

If it's made for a "modern audience" and has the same sanitized writing as Starfield then TES6 will fail.

[noble verge]

This is what worries me, too.

[ripe plank]

I won't be tricked into pre-ordering again like I was with Starfield.

[bitter kestrel]

Please be nice about other games or companies. While not everyone is going to enjoy the same things we ask that you refrain from bashing. If you would like to discuss other games use #off-topic - thank you

[pulsar root]

Okay

[nimble pond]

You darn bashers and all your bashing.. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OeBfmjG9--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/xv1gzgxpaaswcetposrk.gif

And it's Black Marsh.. If only they'd make Fallout 5 here... 🙏
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fi-made-a-classic-wow-style-map-of-louisiana-v0-qxp257rgeg3e1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D2cebedc2cbf6d731d30e0fff0e0074417aa61bf6

[feral viper]

Cabrakan has entered the chat.

That's actually an interesting bit of worldbuilding potential, for Argonians, given their different varieties... Using Behemoth shield walls for infantry to advance behind...

I am amused by the fact that the bait got left, but the counter to the bait got removed.

Still, overall point being, stir the pot. Write stories that make one thing, or make one question what they already think. That's what stories exist to do.

It ultimately doesn't matter if they are well written or poorly written (I would argue there hasn't been a truely excellently written game since 2004). What matters is that you write things that stir emotion. And you can't do that without breaking a few eggs

Give me a TES6 with the flavour of Colonizers Guilt, the Perpetuation of Violence, and the Failure of Tradition.

Give me stories about marginalised and outcast people just looking for basic respect.

Give me stories about pig headed traditionalists who rage against change and cling to their outdated superstition because they're afraid of their own irrelevance.

And most of all.

Down with Talos.

I wonder what typo did that... Ah well, not important, especially given that it actually ends up occuring to me that Fantasy has been pretty poor at commentary in general... Sci-Fi has been far more bold and poignant.

[noble verge]

I'm starting to think I want the polar opposite of what Terical wants.

[feral viper]

Oh, probably. Story and world wise, anyway.

[narrow bison]

is elder scrolls worth buy

[feral viper]

Which one?

We are up to... 5 main games, 2 major spinoffs, an MMO, and half a dozen mobile games (most of which are no longer available anywhere)

Oh, and two novels, and a cookbook.

[feral viper]

The catch, of course, is that a good writer or writers can actually do both.

In film, look at Demolition Man, Starship Troopers, and Robocop. In literature, Dune, War of the Worlds, and Discworld. And these are just a few examples.

I've yet to see anyone pull it off in video games, of course, but just means the soil is ripe for tilling.

[eager remnant]

My favorites are Morrowind, Skyrim and Elder Scrolls Online. My opinion is that those three games are definitely worth buying. But I would recommend making up your own mind. Watch some Let's Plays, read up on individual games in the series, and decide for yourself whether they're games that you might be interested in.

[feral viper]

And don't let my grognard attitude dissuade you. I got a lot of enjoyment out of most TES games over the years, and despite my current dissatisfaction with the world, it's writing, and its direction, I don't regret the time I put into it.

[narrow bison]

play skyrim i have fallout all them and starfield

[noble verge]

I liked how the Ashlanders were simultaneously a marginalized group while also being massive racists and xenophobes, and while the Temple were zealots who in theory stood in the way of the protagonist, they also cared for the poor, put their lives on the line to hold back Dagoth Ur's monsters, and cured even their enemies of blight disease.

[feral viper]

But as I've said a lot lately, TES as a setting is... Well, devoid of value in my eyes. It lacks the grandeose over the top nature and raw style over substance of Warhammer. It lacks the commentary (if often crudely delivered) of most things BioWare makes (not Anthem) and it lacks the down to earth humanity of things like Lord of the Rings.

It's been a Hodge Podge of general, safe blandness for decades.

I'd like it to be more, but since Morrowind, that's what we've gotten.

[noble verge]

Heck, one of the most important supporting Ashlander characters in TES III is a huge racist against Argonians and tells even a Nerevarine that you're brainwashed by outlander ideals if you bring it up.

[feral viper]

Which is fine-ish. I can still find value in the game, if not the world.

[noble verge]

I could do without Bioware's commentary, especially the more recent stuff.

[feral viper]

The commentary is fine. The writing, less so

[noble verge]

For example, it baffles me in Veilguard how the elves didn't fall in line behind their returned gods whom they worshiped for so long. After all the times humans conquered, enslaved, mistreated, and pulled the rug out from under them whenever things started to go right, they ought to be more indignant than the Thalmor.

[feral viper]

Absolutely. And it's a major plot hlle problem that persists in a lot of writing.

TES isn't exempt either. Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood is practically swiss cheese with poorly thought out plot holes.

But bad writing does not make the commentary bad.

[noble verge]

Dark Brotherhood is a weird situation. For a while they were hinted to be amoral professionals with Mehrunes Dagon connections who abandoned the Morag Tong and its red tape, then there was the book where they were a Thieves Guild offshoot (with a possible call back to TES III's depiction), then Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO solidified them as Sithis worshipers.

[feral viper]

Neither is the end of Capitalism, or world peace. I want them anyway.

Still. If I can't expect quality, I want bold.

[feral viper]

Oblivion solidified them. Skyrim and ESO have been dealing with the consequences of that. With mixed success.

But the 'plot hole' problem is primarily an Oblivion issue, one which taints everything that came after.

I could say a whole lot more, and draw connections no one wants, so I'll leave it there.

Simply to say, that plot holes and poor writing are the enemy. Not the commentary.

[feral viper]

Though, to their credit, writing quality is somewhere that Bethesda has consistently improved release after release. I may not like the creative choices, but I can't dismiss the objective improvements.

So maybe I'll be surprised.

[primal olive]

for my birthday tomorrow they should explode all Nords and replace them with snow elves /j

[feral viper]

I approve of this proposal.

[spare anchor]

Instructions unclear. All mer replaced with Nords

[primal olive]

banned turned into soul gem and sent to coldharbour smhmh

if Nords wised up about being idiots a lot more of tamriel would be peaceful

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-eating-eating-eating-cat-gif-8459125914348971806

[primal olive]

but honestly? I love my silly Nords they're stupid strong and goofy

I got that elf autism hyperfixation which is why I think about snow elves daily blehhh

[pulsar root]

Minus being called "Snow elves, I much prefer their appearence then High elves(And ironically I like the name high elves >.>)

[nimble pond]

New TES6 dungeons to explore: shrink and explore inside a mini-ship in a bottle floating on the sea. Then trying to escape out the body of Monstro before you're digested.

[primal olive]

Gelebor straight up says "please don't call me Falmer lol that's the Betrayed"

[pulsar root]

I wouldn't.

[primal olive]

they're Snow Elves, the Betrayed are falmer frfr

[pulsar root]

Snow elves still sound lame, the name not their history. sorry(And no offense to Bethesda) 😭

[primal olive]

Bethesda both makes the coolest (Dunmer) and the most bland fantasy stuff (bretons) ever and it's funny how they don't do middle ground, I love them

[pulsar root]

I wouldn't call the Breton bland but sure.

[nimble pond]

There are so many damn mushrooms in this game. I find it hard to believe we haven't stumbled into some hallucinogenic dugeon/chamber of fungus. Like "Field Trip" from x-files.

[noble verge]

Have they really been comparatively all that troublesome in the last few centuries, though? Aside from the Skyrim civil war, I can only think of two wars in the Third and Fourth Era- the War of the Red Diamond and the War of the Bend'r-mahk- where any blame can be placed on Skyrim.

[primal olive]

I wonder if snow elf ears would look like Altmer ears still (like Gelebor has)or if they would take the Falmer look

[tardy tiger]

I mean if anything Imperials are the most bland fantasy stuff. As any of the interesting stuff is simply not in game and has big questions on if they're even real.

Bretons at least is more book says something but we've not been there to confirm unlike Cyrodiil where we have been there and constantly around their "Empire"

[primal olive]

Nords and Redguards carry humanity frfr

[pulsar root]

lolredguard

Nords are cool and all but.... they don't need to always be "dull'

[primal olive]

true

[opaque ingot]

did someone say breton

i like bretons just because they have potential to be made interesting

they are not there yet

[primal olive]

#off-topic lazy

[opaque ingot]

you have the druids, the witches of the wyrd, horsemen of the bjoulsae, the highland bretons that invented claymores, various knightly orders as some groups

we also have the direnni, and if we need a breton bad guy group, shornhelm has commited various atrocities

[nimble pond]

I like my Bretons full of philosophies..

[plucky topaz]

Is there an ESO channel?

[gloomy anchor]

Eso does not have a channel, they have a forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussions

[feral viper]

I like my Bretons as Greco city states modeled after Medieval European Kingdoms and divided by a Celtic-welsh Arthurian wilderness of fey beasts and ancient haunted ruins.

But they keep giving me The High Isle instead.

[plucky topaz]

Thanks, Krack.

[primal olive]

issue with the forums is they ban at the slightest complaint

great now I'm banned from the forums

[spare anchor]

No, that's not correct at all

[primal olive]

that's what I see happen a lot sadly so my view is probably biased against it because of that

anyways breton terriers r so cool they remind me of my dog who died

[plucky topaz]

Although, why isn’t there a ESO channel here?

[nocturne stone]

This server is for games developed by Bethesda Game Studios themselves. ESO is developed by Zenimax Online Studios.

[plucky topaz]

I SEE, interesting, thanks.

[noble verge]

There's also stuff like Baron Othrok, whose story from what I hear originated as a D&D campaign played by the devs.

He defeated a lich and its undead host, took over its castle, and led the forces of High Rock to defeat the Camoran Usurper.

The Spell Knight creation also gave us some lore on some stuff going on in High Rock. There's a knightly order based out of the Crypt of Hearts crusading against the Beldama Wyrd, which has become a much darker organization than it was in ESO.

[nimble pond]

It's a great idea, but never underestimate ppl https://media4.giphy.com/media/z9pinvhfh1ziM/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952apnzbhxhzux91sowthreagxw8737suub5ixdtl1p&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[stark flower]

Happy late birthday birthday buddy!

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/wake-up-arise-dog-pooch-car-window-gif-19510325

[nimble pond]

Someone fiddling with the Time Scroll again

[noble verge]

Dragon Break

[small sage]

you would think someone would put up that scroll

[feral viper]

That's the trick. All scrolls are time scrolls.

[small sage]

uh I got a question...you can learn dragonrend from the ancient nords but how did you get their knowledge of it to use it?

[glass marlin]

Probably Elder Scroll shenanigans.

[silk blaze]

Ummm maybe when you read an Elder scroll, it just kinda beams that knowledge into your head or something. Tbh im not really sure either, but given how decently obscure the lore about the elder scrolls themselves are, im not suprised if the reason you somehow know dragonrend all the sudden is because they needed the plot to progress.

Or it has something to do with the dragonblood you have

[feral viper]

Dragonrend is about forcing a mortal perspective on a Dragon. Mortals inherently understand and comprehend it, while immortals cannot. That's how it works.

In principle, a mortal would only need to hear it, and be able to utilise it if they understood how the Thu'um worked.

[livid ingot]

I agree with Terical

[glass marlin]

That makes a ton of sense.

[silk blaze]

Same

[small sage]

so by that logic I should lose it when I become a vampire?

[feral viper]

A Mortal-turned-immortal would likely bridge those perceptions, understanding both.

[small sage]

interesting

always picks werewolf cause he would rather sniff butts then drink blood

plus the dawnguard's crossbows are badass

especially when you learn how to make an enhanced dragonbone crossbow. plus the costs for making enchanted bolts is heck of a lot cheaper then the arcane archery cost.

[rugged hazel]

when do they expect eso to be avable to play again

[spare plaza]

Updates on the forums. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670288 is the update thread

[small sage]

I would love to play on eso and fallout 76

I liked fallout 76 before they added npcs into the game other then robots and corpses

but alas, I live on a farm and caring for an 81 year old mother and HAVE to be able to pause my game

which is why I stopped playing destiny

[tight wave]

all that can be said is expressed as "DAMN"

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-blink-blinking-gif-25635243

[pulsar root]

/shrug 🤷🏻‍♂️

[feral viper]

MCM?

[bitter kestrel]

Please keep the conversation appropriate for the server.

[feral viper]

I guess that answers my question, at least as far as it needed to be.

[dim reef]

Ps servers still down?

[nimble pond]

✈

[nimble pond]

Wobbudamn!

[spring mirage]

What assistance can i recieve if i asked how to get past the dragon scroll reading bug?

[stark flower]

For what game and what platform?

[spring mirage]

Skyrim elder scrolls and on ps4

[small sage]

is skyrim as buggy peice of mess like fallout is on playstation?

plays on the switch and superior xbox series x

[austere oasis]

Skyrim works on PS3, runs well on PS4 even with mods, and Oblivion Runs the smoothest fully

[small sage]

never play fallout on playstation

it is bad juju

[austere oasis]

Fo3 was a rough gem fo4 works great NV is the worst of the batch elderscrolls runs better in general over fallout on playstation

[small sage]

nice

[spring mirage]

Some dude is a legend on reddit, he has the answer for the dragon scroll bug, he said to go to riftin and read it outside the pub, then go back to the throat of the world and read it again, it didnt take a minute and i got past

[feral viper]

So, what do people think is the over-under of a TES episode if Secret Level gets a second series?

[nimble pond]

Was reading comments about stealth archers. But what stealth mages? I think more stealthy assassin-like spells would be an interesting branch to explore and engage in. I remember we already had the silent spells perk in Skyrim.

[feral viper]

I still struggle to understand how a Fireball or Lightning Bolt can be silent...

[tardy tiger]

Well it's silent when everyone is dead.

[feral viper]

The Planet Cracker approach to conflict resolution

[austere oasis]

Oblivion has spells for lockpicking in its game and muffled footsteps sneak mages is a fun and interesting idea for this game as a whole

[livid ingot]

Yeah, it was always a shame there was no way you could make a sneak attack with a spell in that game

[nimble pond]

It be would awkward if there was a loud, sky-shattering thunder sound every time you cast lightning bolt from your hand or stave. Like just tell the whole province you are everytime you cast it 😅

But it would be cool if we could also use lightning magic to temporarily blind enemies too.

[nimble pond]

These are more "passive" skills though, like the silent cast perk. I was meaning something more.. "offensive." You know, like how the dagger-wielding assassins slit throats 💀 Should be able to do a similar effect with a sharp ice spike, no? Sneak up behind and put both your hands on either side of their head from behind and deep-fry their head like it's a lightning rod (Frankenstein). Lastly, you could heat up your hand so incredibly hot, and when you sneak up from behind, you put your hand over their mouth causing massive burn (and at the same time silencing them), if not outright melting their face like butter on a hot knife.
Anywho, that's just a few quick ideas in that direction off the top of the hat.

[austere oasis]

If it's offensive you're looking for Skyrim does have Bound Weapons and honestly that's the perfect crime the weapon can be summoned and released at will

[austere oasis]

Suped up Magelight spell that acts to blind bleeding enemies in a ball of light would be a cool idea

I think if you combined the Alteration and Mysticism Spells from Oblivion with revamped Illusion and Conjuration spells from Skyrim (bound weapons mostly from conjuration) you'd have a decently fun stealth mage but I do agree magic is lacking in comparison to weapons

I liked how Oblivion had magic able to be used with weapons felt really cool to hurl a fireball holding a sword

[nimble pond]

Speaking of bound and conjuration. We need a joinable necromancer guild. I think that could be alot of fun 😈

[nimble pond]

I like the idea of magelight, but instead, being able to lift up enemies and pin them to walls, ceiling, wherever, just like magelight. Of course.. after the duration ends they will of course fall down from the ceiling to the jagged rocks below. 😁
Or maybe even sticking two enemies together?

[austere oasis]

If you really think about it Magelight is a modified version of Telekinesis or Levitation magic to hold a ball of light in place like that

The Possibilities of thinking about how magic works in elderscrolls and how it could be applied to create new spells is more fun than actually playing as a mage in the games themselves (although oblivions broken player made spells go crazy)

[nimble pond]

Magnetism would be a fun thing to mess with in the spell realm too.

[austere oasis]

I wonder how Bound Weapons work, Conjuration is the school of Necromancy and summoning lesser daedra from Oblivion Realms but Bound Weapons aren't Daedra at least to my knowledge

[livid ingot]

Actually, according to Ken Rolston, they are!

A “bound” weapon is a daedra bound into the form of a weapon. A common magic in Daedric realms is the binding of lesser daedra into physical artifacts. Daedra Lords particularly like to have their minions and defeated opponents made into coatracks and fuzzy slippers.

Weapons and armor are the most commonly bound items, and at some point some mortal bargained successfully for the secret of summoning such items from the Daedric realms. [I don’t know any of the technical details… I’m only a bushleague hedgewizard.]

So, for its brief period of service in the world of Tamriel, a bound weapon is actually a Daedra [albeit a spectacularly weak and stupid one] in a magically constrained form. When the duration of the spell ends, poof the bound daedra returns to the Daedric realms, there to wait patiently for the next summons of a Master. [Imagine little stinkers bound for a fair portion of Eternity to sit an a dusty armory somewhere waiting to Serve a Lord.. or worse yet, a mortal wizard… and you can imagine how much fun it is to be a lesser daedra.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archive-ken-rolston

If you want an in-game source: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/darkest-darkness

[austere oasis]

Huh that's actually pretty fascinating information and not too surprising to be done i just hadn't given it much thought

[nimble pond]

So in regards to two provinces, would we get to see both new Orsinium (Hammerfell) and old Orsinium (High Rock)? I mean I understand the old ones got sacked, but still were city structures, stone ain't simply gonna vanish. Probably explorable and possibly some hidden loot. And curious who might be now living in the old Orsiniums.. Orcs, Bretons, other?

[livid ingot]

You mean if we get Hammerfell and High Rock?

I think we'd only get both if the entirity of both provinces was included. If it's a repeat of Daggerfall's map, we wouldn't get Nova Nova Orsinium.

I think in any such event, the site of Old Orsinium would just be a dungeon, not a ruined city. Similar to Saarthal, Sancre Tor, old Almalexia, etc

[nimble pond]

Still, I'd like to explore them, like the dwemer city ruins/dungeon.

I don't see an exact repeat of the Daggerfall map border happening. But both full borders with the Bay at the center is possible. Now if we were getting TESVI say... 8 years ago, I'd be very doubtful of a two province game. But a lot more time than that has passed, tech is more advanced than it was when Skyrim was in development and BGS keeps increasing their map designs in both scale and detail throughout their other games. That's just the curve I see.

[small sage]

so I have a question. Archer pelting you with arrows, you get close to deal with them and they become a werewolf. Would that make you a wee bit scared?

because thats my bosmer in a nutshell

[feral viper]

If a werewolf is doing anything, it would be scary.

Because werewolves are scary.

[small sage]

aw shucks thanks terical

you cheer up a bosmer heart

[pulsar root]

Goes to bed, murders a bunch of people via werewolf. Learns you murdered peoople via werewolf even though its not your fault

Yeah can't imagine why that would be "fun"

[feral viper]

Well, I mean... Have you ever worked Customer Service?

[small sage]

I hear customer service is the absolute way of stripping one's soul from another

[feral viper]

If you make it through a decade in Customer Service without becoming a Sithis Follower (a spiteful Misanthrope) then you are made of the sternest stuff.

The best way to recruit people for the Dark Brotherhood, would be to target people in Retail Sales.

[small sage]

I used to think it wasnt that bad but one day I went to the store to buy me some chicken noodle soup and came across a mother throwing a raging hissy fit because my nephew had commented that her 14 year old daughter's shirt was cool

that made me realize that not everyone treats them well.

[pulsar root]

Never been in it but I'm socially challenged(And on the spectrum) so I wouldn't be too good at it. Getting better but... off topic.

Sweetrolls are missing.... QQ

[nimble pond]

We need pie-throwing in this game. I just want to spend hours smashing NPCs and guards in the face with pies. I'll steal an item and make my getaway with a pie to the face. I can already taste the fame

[bitter kestrel]

We don't allow "leaks," "rumors," or misinformation on this server. These messages will be removed, and may lead to removal from the server.

[nimble pond]

Back to Elder Scrolls General Chat. So we have past games like Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, etc. Do you think it's possible some of those past games may get remakes or remasters? Not necessarily by BGS Studios, but outsourced to say.. Virtuos Studios? When do you think something like that might happen? Next year, next decade?

I think some modder teans are working on their projects as well in relation.

[wide garnet]

Not going to lie, that would be pretty funny.

[nimble pond]

Ikr, I could literally make an entire play-thru out of that. Pie-throwing is heavily underrated.
Dual pie-smashing to the head if you're a real pro.

If not at least make for a fun quest in the realms of the Thieves Guild. Probably some hidden jewel hiding in a bakery, in 1 of a 100 pies. It would be pie armageddon like no other.. Pie smugglers..

[wide garnet]

I’m pretty sure the Dark Brotherhood/Cicero especially would poison their pies.

[feral viper]

Arena and Daggerfall, unlikely. The amount of work needed would necessitate a full on remake, or reimagining, at LEAST on the scale of the FF7 remake.

Oblivion would be the most likely, I think, simply because it's the most 'like' Skyrim. So it would be the most palpable to both Oblivion and Skyrim fans.

Morrowind would also require a lot more work to remaster than Oblivion would.

[nimble pond]

Also, we need more traps. Maybe pie traps. Because, leading an enemy to a slippery pie ..only to watch them slip right off a cliff, is just too good not to enjoy 🙂
But I'd like watching em get tripped up in general too, by any means. Surprised I never saw anyone bust their butt in Skyrim with all that ice and ice magic.

If they came up with a trap system that's as customizable as say F4's armor system or some of what we got in Starfield, I think that'd be very fun to mess with and see what kind of traps people create. While some would be fantastic-ly deadly or insidious design, I bet some would be very comical to say the least.. 😅 Be useful, interesting tools for not only enemies, but the creatures of the land and sea as well.
Even medieval fantasies can benefit from a bit of inventive or engineering skill. The more experienced you are, the more makeshift things you can make out of all the materials you come across, both in city and out in nature. These games are already abundant with all sorts of odds and ends we can come across, pick-up and move around anyway.
Maybe even take it as far as creating your own followers/companions to suit your desired purpose, from some dorky dwemer-like robot, to magical abominations.

[feral viper]

People often misjudge just how sophisticated things could be in the Medieval era.

Clockwork was still used, it was just expensive. Cranes and sophisticated engineering were relatively common. Etc.

There is this unfortunate perception that Medieval = Primitive. Even without the Fantasy element throwing all that out the window, that idea is ludicrous.

[primal olive]

tall granite structures adorned in ornate yet plain brass stripes, towering along frosty mountains and temperate valleys

[small sage]

what I like is how sophisticated things are in the elder scrolls, for example the stormcloaks have trebuchets, which is a more awesome versions of catapults

trebuchets, for those who dont know, was a french invention where the rock or whatever you throw is slung up and over itself instead of merely tossed by a catapult

it's based off the sling, a weapon which still sees use today.

[feral viper]

Nerd alert incoming...

The earliest Trebuchets actually date to China, sometime between the 4th and 5th centuries bce. These were much smaller man-powered machines also known as Mangonels, and were usually used to throw arrows or small stones at enemy formations rather than as siege weapons.

They spread west through Tibet and into the Bizantine Empire over the subsequent centuries.

The earliest mention of what we would generally recognise as a Trebuchet actually comes from one of Saladin's chroniclers.

However, various accounts of siege weapons and battles through the mid 11th century and early 12th century indicate that Trebuchets were already in use by both Muslim and Crusader forced in this period.

So we can generally assume that more traditional counterweight Trebuchets were developed sometime around the late 10th and early 11th centuries, likely in the Levant.

Whether these were by the Muslims , Bizantines, or Crusaders, remains unknown.

The most common form of a Trebuchet that we recognise (one with a hinged weight basket rather than a basket suspected by ropes) was being referred to as the Frankish Trebuchet by the 1180s however, indicating that particular style was heavily associated with the French crusaders.

I may have built a miniature War Wolf for a 12th grade Physics project

[austere oasis]

Siege Engine History Chat, can't proclaim how exciting it was when ESO had a variety of siege engines to build and use to besiege Castles or forts in Cyrodil too bad pvp in eso quickly went south but those first few months/year and a half were amazing to partake in the wars for the heart of tamriel

[feral viper]

PvP focused MMOs are pretty universally doomed to a quick death. It started with the Rifts experiment, and has held for basically every attempt since.

ESO was right to shift towards narrative adventures rather than a PvP focus..

[austere oasis]

I agree but launch eso wars were good times especially the sieging

[pulsar root]

That is something I can agree on. Shifting towards PVE is best, that said the existence of PVP is fine IMO just not the focus.

[nimble pond]

Honestly the sieges looked so fun

I hope something like that is in tesvi, with the npcs. I'm not saying turn tesvi into pvp

Id totally go for tes-themed rts spinoff game too, like halo wars

[austere oasis]

RTS or Turn Based Strategy a Grand Strategy Tes spinoff would be amazing with destructible environments like Men of War Assault Squad

I hope ES6 has more Warfare elements the Skyrim Civil War is some of the most fun in the game in general

[small sage]

my complaint with the civil war is I think ulfric is right but damn it I dont know which is worse laila lawgiver or maven black briar

woman thinks because she is riften's leader she should be spared if riften falls, which I think is worse then maven's scheming

[austere oasis]

Maven Aids in Flooding the streets with controlled chaos (Thieves Guild and DB) I think she's worse

[small sage]

but laila is so dumb

and skald the elder is just as dumb

these guys flood skyrim with ignorance

and stupidity

honestly talos sending dragons for banning his worship?

I can see skald is an ancestor of no bark from new vegas

[pulsar root]

Ulfric is in fact not correct. He's a fool. Talos worship being banned was a stipulation given to the Empire's emperor, to avoid Humanity getting even more rekt(Thalmor literally at the imperial city).

[small sage]

so you support the imperials?

[dim reef]

Why does ESO keep crashing and freezing at the end of dungeons and trials? It’s been happening for like a month now.
Queueing for +20 min for a single dungeon then crash at the final boss, when i try to log back in i get stuck in an infinite loading screen??😟

[austere oasis]

The empire was weak to abandon its people just because it's capital was under siege the Redguards have been keeping the dominion out of Hammerfell for years at the time of Skyrim

[pulsar root]

Good for them, they'd sing a different tune if the situation was reversed. They didn't abandon their people.

[austere oasis]

It abandoned its people the moment it submitted to the dominion and its thalmor outlawing Talos worship the fact that the Redguard is capable of keeping up with the fight alone means the empire could have won the imperial city didn't fall to the dominion but they surrendered anyway

[eager remnant]

This is a chat for the single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. Any questions or comments concerning Elder Scrolls Online should be posted on the ZeniMax Online Studios forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[primal olive]

snow elves snow snow sergals holy sunlight

[feral viper]

Alternative facts, there...

For one, the Redguard couldn't drive out a supposedly 'defeated' enemy. The REDGUARD. United for the first-time in THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Either we've been lied to about capable the Redguard warriors are (which would actually make sense, as Warrior Cultured are typically terrible at fighting wars) or the Dominion wasn't actually that defeated.

Second, while they banned Talos Worship officially (a good call, eff that guy) they did not enforce the ban. This is typical of the Empire, which does not strictly prohibit the worship of unrecognised deities. Their general stance on the Daedra is a prime example of this, and it takes extrajudicial vigilante groups like the Vigilants of Stendar to try and stamp out cults.

Third, the Imperial City didn't surrender. It was an impossible situation to hold and required a retreat to better ground. Your strategic misunderstanding of warfare doesn't make you right in your assessments.

And finally, the heartland of the Empire, containing it's most productive and wealthy industries, has been ravaged by years of war. It's core population was exhausted, it's industries pillaged, and it's armies decimated. In literally any reasonable historic context, that would be grounds to a peace treaty, but in TES people view it as weakness.

I mean, hell. The Romans literally sued for peace against Atilla AFTER BEATING HIM simply because they knew they couldn't pursue him into his own territories.

Again, not understanding strategy or warfare doesn't make your point stronger.

None of which deals with the problems with the Stormcloaks themselves, which are a small minded populist movement driven by lies, nationalism, and actively supplied and supported by the clandestine efforts of the very people they hate.

The Empire may not be great, but if the two options they're hands down the better. There's basically nothing redeemable about the Stormcloaks in any way.

[nimble pond]

This came up a while ago, but I think it wasn't even that sizeable of a force of already exhausted Thalmor the Redguards fought to a "stand-still" not defeated. So idk, it doesn't really make the redguards sound all that strong to me. More like, just barely held off a portion of Thalmor forces. And knowing the Thalmor, they're going to play smart. Imperial legion is only temporarily holding off the inevitable.

[feral viper]

The most 'Naturally gifted warriors' who were united for the first time since they blitzkrieg's the entire country as refugee conquerors, only managed to fight the supposedly defeated Thalmor to a standstill in friendly territory for a decade before having to sign their own treaty.

That's not a sign of the Thalmor being in a position of weakness

And this was AFTER the Dominion had lost their main commander any their stupid 'I Win' macguffin. So the Redguard are made even more pathetic by Legends, unable to drive out a beaten enemy who couldn't even have gotten as far as they did without a cheat button.

You simply cannot have 'The Redguard are bad ass and fought back' and 'The Dominion was weak and could have been beaten' be true at the same time.

But you can have both of those be untrue at the same time.

[nimble pond]

Oh yea and with Skyrim it's not just the Talos thing, but the occupation of Thalmor agents too. Not really a good sign. I'm pretty sure they don't have imperial agents occupying Summerset, but I could be wrong I haven't checked yet.

One thing I was thinking about that could happen in future timeline, but I don't have the specific details. Starting with stormcloaks may ally with united redguards and then who knows bc a lot of future lore is unwritten currently, but other forces from other tamriel provinces may join up as well, all against a common enemy, Thalmor.
And it would be kinda cool to see stormcloak forces coming to the aid of redgaurds in some Thalmor battle in hammerfell. Like payback lol

[feral viper]

Even that is more the Stormcloaks fault than anything. Playing right into the Dominion's hands by calling attention to the lack of enforcement.

[nimble pond]

Perhaps, but I think Thalmor wanted to do that anyway, if not the stormcloaks they would just find another excuse

[feral viper]

If I were writing...

General Decianus would be recalled, and sent to Skyrim to deal with the Stormcloak problem after Tulius' death. And his campaign would be far less generous, bitter over the death of his friend at the hands of the rebels. There would be no quarter, with the roads being lined with hanged Stormcloaks all the way to Windhelm, while Ulfric would be William Wallace'd.

[nimble pond]

Somehow I don't think that'd go over well 😅

And Imperials would create even more hate and targets on themselves

Thalmor make popcorn and watch

[feral viper]

You'd be surprised what aggressive suppression of revolt can do.

Kept the Rus passive for 300 years.

Minus one incident with a particular Prince of Kiev.

[nimble pond]

Maybe on another province, but not on Nords 😂

[feral viper]

Kill all the dissidents. 2/3rds of Skyrim are either loyal, or indifferent anyway.

[nimble pond]

Idk the exact numbers so I couldn't say

And have to account for future as well, would it grow or lessen?

[feral viper]

A complicated question that depends on a lot of factors.

If well written, anyway.

More than likely, it would be resolved with Plot Device.

[austere oasis]

@feral viper Any Discussion about the Civil War is entirely Opinion based but you're wrong about the empire not enforcing the talos ban by allowing the Thalmor to come into Skyrim and openly walk around arresting Talos Worshippers they are enforcing the ban on his worship, the imperial city didn't fall but the empire surrendered when it came under siege even with firece fighting still going on outside of the walls the empires tactics are terrible people view the empires treaty as weak in elderscrolls because we know that they are capable of more but none of this really matters cause it's all up to whatever the writers decide the Stormcloaks aren't being actively supplied and supported by the dominion any more less than the empire and that's the point the dominion doesn't want the civil war to end in a victory for either side

[austere oasis]

I think Cyrodil is a terrible strategic position considering how open it is Hammerfell, High Rock, and Skyrim are much easier to defend with the mountains although I do believe the Gold Coast holds important tactical significance for launching an invasion of the Summerset Isles

[feral viper]

The ban was not enforced until Ulfric made reinstatement of Talos a condition of his assistance during the Markarth incident. This gave the Dominion the grounds to cite treaty violations and send their own enforcers, or the Empire to give them a casus belli to restart the war. This is basic geopolitics.

Second, the Empire did not surrender at any point, that is either a lie (which given the state of the lore community when I jumped ship, I would not be surprised if it's been spread around the last 6 months) or misinformation. The Empire retreated from the city due to it being an unsustainable position, losing an entire legion in the process, and then holed up north for a year remustering. The fact that they then retook the city WITHIN 3 DAYS shows that this was a good decision and that the Imperial City is not actually very defensible.

And yes, the Stormcloaks are actively being supplied by the Dominion. Those supplies are coming through intermediaries in Blackmarsh, and the Nords are too stupid to realise it, but it's pretty explicit.

Whether you support the Stormcloaks or not is of course opinion. Whether or not you value their hypocrisy of independence or their calls for Religious Freedoms, is up to you.

But the realities of geopolitics and military strategy are not opinions.

Whether or not those realities will be handwaved away through plot device and bad writing, is of course an entirely seperate matter.

[austere oasis]

The Stormcloaks are only being supplied as much as the dominion want them to be to keep the civil war in skyrim unending in the result of a Stormcloak victory im sure they'd cut supplying but by then it wouldn't really matter as Skyrim is full of resources necessary to prolong a war

[feral viper]

Which doesn't change the fact that they are being supplied.

The Stormcloaks are easily as much pawns and rubes to the Dominion espionage machine as the Empire is. So claiming that one is more a puppet than the other is inherently disingenuous.

The only difference is, the Empire is bound by Treaty Obligations. While the Stormcloaks are bound by stupidity.

[austere oasis]

The empire should have kept fighting instead of signing the treaty that ended up with two of their best warrior caste wanting or leaving the empire the empire is being written as weak and failing anyway they've lost Hammerfell and Morrowind, Skyrim is just another province gone in a crumbling empire to me

[feral viper]

Well, again, Warrior Cultures are pathetic excuses of societies in the face of actual militaries, and this was shown in Hammerfell.

The REDGUARD couldn't drive out a supposedly beaten enemy.

[austere oasis]

One is openly a puppet while the other is fighting for the freedom of its people whilst being supplied a stormcloak victory ensures Skyrim is free from oppression by the dominion an empire victory is continued subjugation for who knows how long until the empire decides to start the war back up but at that point who knows how many thalmor agents would have infiltrated the imperial lands by then so the empire would likely lose

[feral viper]

Upholding treaty obligations is not being a puppet. That statement alone makes it clear that you don't have enough of an understanding of basic geopolitics for me to even continue this conversation.

https://tenor.com/view/peace-out-im-out-bye-gif-14304356

[harsh crown]

https://tenor.com/view/alf-blinds-whats-that-over-there-peek-spy-gif-4891677

[austere oasis]

The way I see it Nationalistic Warrior Castes will fight harder against a perceived enemy (elves) than the empire would ever

[austere oasis]

My point is that treaty should have never been signed it was foolish to do so

[feral viper]

The sheer quantity of wrongness with your position is so staggering, that addressing it would very quickly be perceived as harassment and I'm not going to rouse the mods from their holiday slumber.

Entirely unrelated. Why does Tamriel celebrate a holiday dedicated to a Roman god?

[austere oasis]

Which holiday are you referring to?

[feral viper]

Saturnalia.

[harsh crown]

The names are identical, but not the same. The Roman god you are speaking of is Saturnalia, while Saturalia is a Breton celebration.

[feral viper]

Fair enough.

I'm sure the true king of gods would appreciate it none the less.

https://tenor.com/view/cronos-gif-24554044

[noble verge]

What's the source of the claim that the Dominion is supplying the Stormcloaks?

[feral viper]

The shipments of Elven weapons through Blackmarsh.

The An Xileel and Argonians lack the industrial capability to manufacture such goods at any scale, and it's clearly established (though somewhat tacky) that the racial styles of items are directly related to their races manufacture. As such, the likelihood of Elven weapons coming from Argonians is virtually nonexistent.

The more likely explanation is that the Dominion is supplying arms to the Dominion through Argonians smugglers. This would match with the Dossier and its claims of indirect support to perpetuate the conflict.

Use of intermediaries would also allow the Dominion to cut off the arms supply easily should the Stormcloaks gain the upper hand, thereby prolonging a stalemate.

[noble verge]

The only mention I know of regarding elven weapons in Black Marsh is Erikur's conversation with Melaran, in which he mentions buying them from Black Marsh and plans to sell them to the highest bidder. That hardly constitutes the Dominion supplying the Stormcloaks.

[feral viper]

Fair, what is obvious to me may not be obvious to others, or even intended.

I thought the Domino's success early in the war as obvious, but apparently we needed Legends to explain it with a lazy macguffin.

[small sage]

happy late saturalia!

are we busy arguing over which side is superior

I wanna side with the side that lets me eat my enemies.

so basically namira and hircine since I am a werewolf

@feral viper may I DM you for insight and knowledge?

[feral viper]

Of course. If you want my flavour of radical spite.

[primal olive]

blows up the companions with mind

also melts ysgramor into dust with mine (kark ysgramor the skeever turd mongler) that is all

[nimble pond]

You know, besides decorating our house, I'd actually like to decorate the land too, you know like planting fruit trees, props, furniture, animal feeders, bushes, flowers, lights, sidewalks, etc.

[feral viper]

Fallout and Starfield allow for such, so expect it in some capacity in TES moving forward.

[tardy tiger]

I actually wonder if this explains the "Argonian Patrols" near Skyrims Morrowind border that it messes with drug running.

[whole marsh]

So, hows TES 6 coming along?

[eternal forge]

I'm starting to think elder scrolls 6 is competing with the winds of winter book to see what can take the longest.

[feral viper]

They only started the full development process (typically a 4 year task) last year.

[primal olive]

autism thing of the day: snow elves snow elves

[small sage]

dont you know, the world is going to end and we will never get fallout 5 or elder scrolls 6

I mean wha?

[austere oasis]

When I'm old and dying hopefully ES6 will be almost done and I can get my Make A Wish to see ES6 before I pass away

[feral viper]

Maybe it's because I am getting older. But I'd rather wait for it to be good, than harass the devs while they're making it.

[austere oasis]

I don't care how long it takes them to make i just like joking about it

[feral viper]

I'm also positive what, while I will enjoy the game as a sandbox, I will be infuriated by the story and worldbuilding choices.

[austere oasis]

I'm already prepared i won't be able to probably play it because of platform

[whole marsh]

I just hope they bring back everything they've removed over the past few games. Custom spells, more / different amour sets, a more indepth skill tree for things like unarmed.

[feral viper]

I'm not a fan of 'bringing things back'. Reimagining or reinventing in a better way, yes, but to be entirely honest..

The past sucks. Past solution to problems are almost always terrible, and are PAST solutions for a reason. Let them stay in the past.

[whole marsh]

Reimagining usually comes with the tag of being worse than before. The more options we have for how we want to play in an RPG the better. It is a Role playing game after all. How can I play as a wizard in a fantasy game if I cant even come up with spells that suit my play style.

[feral viper]

Because that's not how magic works in TES, at least. Or most settings really. You don't see Spell crafting in D&D or Pathfinder either.

Because actually creating spells requires studious investment and lab time, it's not something you do on a gimicky altar in a tacky magic university.

Spell crafting in general was always nothing more than the Editor infiltrating the game. And it was a god awful abomination.

[whole marsh]

Morrowind and Oblivion had custom spell crafting. As for DnD, you can come up with your own spells, thats beauty of DnD, you can do pretty much anything you want. Why are you trying to hamper the idea that players should have more options in what could arguably be considered a game style based on the sole notion that the player has 100% agency over thier play style? If you dont like Magic Crafting, dont use it, but the option should be there none the less.

And im not speakinng just about custom spells. They've removed a bunch from the previous 2 games that I wish they'd bring back. It feels like the scope of play styles is being narrowed down to just a few, rather than being able to play how ever you want. I mean, the Stealth Archer meme is a thing for that exact reason. It became one of the few viable options for playing skyrim in a way that made the player feel accomplished. I wish all playstyles had that feelinng in the end, but the only way to do that is to stop cutting things from previous games, like spell crafting as an example.

[feral viper]

Stealth archer is a meme because Skyrim is terribly balanced, not because they removed other play styles.

And I'm not hampering anything. I'm saying the old solutions to problems didn't actually DO that, and resulted in every single character ending up exactly the same if you play them long enough.

At least Skyrim literally prohibited this on launch, and even when it opened up infinite leveling it takes orders of magnitudes more effort to achieve the same result.

[pulsar root]

Custom spells is meh. Besides, if you don't feel like Mage archetype without it.... well thats more on you then anything else.

Using a meme as an argument...is not the best argument either, lol

[feral viper]

Skyrim made a lot of mistakes, no one with an ounce of critical thinking skills and integrity is going to claim otherwise. But at the same basic criteria is required to state that Morrowind and Oblivion had the exact same problems.

To be absolutely candid, TES games have never been particularly good RPGs. Most of the Skill options have traditionally been superficial differences that do nothing but change what item sprite your beating something to death with, and many of its systems are either actively detrimental to diversify (Character Classes, Armour Classes, blank skill checks, etc) or so superficial as to be little more than window dressing.

TES has ALWAYS required the player to use their imagination to overcome it's actual mechanical shortcomings.

[whole marsh]

Theres much to be said about fanboyism for a certain topic or genera, but imo removing core features from previous games is a mistake. Im using spell crafting as just one example. But the things like character class, armor class, skill proficiency are what make it an RPG. If you remove those, or dumb them down too much you'll just have Overwtach, Medieval RPG edition. We as players need a variety of choices on how we want to play our character. And removing core features that people have become accustomed too in your previous games, in my opinion, is a step towards mediocrity.

[pulsar root]

I give Skyrim slack cause... well 2011 game, probably waited too long but...... sometimes life doesn't go the way you want it to. Grumbles

[feral viper]

Classes are functionally terrible, and should have been discarded decades ago.

Skill proficiency is even better in Skyrim than its ever been.

Armour Classes are actively detrimental to multiple gameplay and character aspects while being grounded in absolute nonsense.

If a 'core feature' actively makes a game worse, burn it. Full stop. Clinging to things because they've always been that way is how you strangle progress in the crib.

[whole marsh]

This only reads as "I dont Want My RPG Game To Play Like An RPG". That, or you have a very skewed idea as to what an RPG is.

[feral viper]

I want better RPGs. I don't want the same flawed games I've been playing for 30 years because 'tradition' or narrow minded ideas on what an RPG is stifle progress.

[whole marsh]

If you dont want the same flawed game, stop playing bethesda games first off. But thats a conversation for another time. If you want better RPG's thenn you should be embracing the notion of free will in a game. I.E., everything bethesda has removed should be correctly reimplemented.

[feral viper]

Classes, for instance, are actively atrocious. They lock characters into railroaded identities picked at the start of a game that restricts all future decisions and stifles natural character growth.

At BEST, you can then add an entirely seperate system to develop and refine those Classes as you go forward (D&D and Pathfinder do this).

Ok, first off, Free Will doesn't exist. It's philosophical illusion driven by nothing but human ego.

Second, what has been removed has not, in fact, stifled anything.

In fact, Skyrim vastly improved on previous iterations by dropping Classes (this allowing for freeform, natural development of characters) and by changing the Perk System to allow for in-skill differentiation.

That Skyrim was so terribly balanced that most of the Perks weren't actually that useful is an entirely secondary problem.

[whole marsh]

For Oblivion and Morrowind, Bethesda did a decent job at describing what the features and perks of each class are (Warrior, Knight, etc). But besides that, it nevere locked you innto a single playstyle. You could always change up tactics mid game and build those skills. Did you even play Morrowind and Oblivion?

[feral viper]

I did, and you have a very rosy view of both games.

I'll discount Oblivion entirely, because it's objectively worse than Morrowind in every way, and I'll stick just with Morrowind's problems.

[whole marsh]

Rosey? Naw. Youre misinterpreting what im saying. You seem too over opinionated as to how you want it to be, rather than what it is.

Also Oblivion was better than Morrowind and Skyrim.

[feral viper]

Oh man...

No, no I can't pretend to have an actual conversation after that. I can't take your position seriously after that claim, so I'm just going to tap out and let you live with your opinion.

Oblivion was SO bad, actually ripping it apart on here will get the mods mad at me, so it's not worth the effort.

[whole marsh]

Man, idk if you have issues, or if youre too set if your figmental ways, but not everythinng is out to get you. Chill dawg.

Getting all uppity cause someone suggested that they bring back core mechanics that they removed from previous games, that would arguably make the next TES game better, if done correctly.

[spare plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-lurker-shy-hiding-tree-gif-15734280

Alright drop it, move on

Not going to put up with this any longer

Take it to DMs

[primal olive]

Altmer and Nord

[small sage]

hadeostry, will the wood elves ever get the ability to natively eat the dead?

[glass marlin]

That's like asking if the Dunmer would ever stop using slaves.

Granted I don't think slavery is as prominent due to the combination of the Argonians occupying more of Morrowind, the Thalmor in Elsweyr, and House Dres being in ruins, but still.

[feral viper]

It was on the way out even during Morrowind. And it was outright banned shortly before the Oblivion Crisis. So I doub it's around anymore.

Especially given that the dominant house now is the most anti-slavery of the Great Houses at the time of Morrowind.

[feral viper]

Now, to me more through and constructive, and selecting a single topic to dissect.

Why Armour Classes are actually bad mechanically for an RPG.

Armour Classes create several problems.

First, that's not how armour works. Not only does armour not behave that way based on weight ('weight' categories are about coverage not arbitrary total mass figures) but it's also not something that requires specified training for various sorts of armour. If anything, it requires getting comfortable in specific SUITS, but that's like breaking in a new pair of shoes. The actual function of individual types of armour is dictated by their construction, as all armour is going to weigh about the same based on covrrage. As such, unless a worlds armourers are absolutely incompetent, Plate Armour is going to work the same regardless of whether it's made of Ebony, or Elven Moonstone.

Second, it creates multiple directly competing skills that all function in the exact same primary way. Armour passively decreases damage taken when you are hit. That's what it does. When you have multiple clade of anything that all function the same (skills, armour types, spell effects etc) you aren't actually creating new character options, you're just creating superficial skins to play dress up in.

Third, it stifles the ability to explore other stats and interactions due to the need for all Armour Classes to be equally competitive. When you have traditional armour classes you limit the ability to explore things like Damage Types and Resistances, because you can't make any particular type of armour significantly superior against any particular type of damage without making ALL types of armour functionally mandatory. And if you do the latter, you're rendering the different clade irrelevant anyway.

Fourth, because the different Armour Classes are inherently superficial, in order to add any sort of distinction between them you inevitably have to impose on OTHER skills and activities to do so. For instance, literally all the Sneak-bonuses to Light Armour should be all rights be in Sneak it's self. They're stolen just to make Light Armour its own remotely distinct thing.

Fifth, it leads to the Encumbrance Problem. Linking slowing of the player directly to the Armour they wear, regardless of other factors. Not only is this nonsensical and shows the settings armourers to be legitimately bad at their jobs (fun fact, Plate is the LEAST encumbering armour) but it actively restricts your ability to do anything with Weight.

[feral viper]

Also, apologies. I was out of line and you did not deserve that amount of snark.

[tardy tiger]

Armour if anything was more how much you could pay.

Plate Armour I guess would be a bit like Sports cars in the modern day but actually useful.

[feral viper]

Indeed. The notable exception being cloth armours, which WERE lighter in weight for coverage when compared to other options. But they were also usually the undershot for those other options, so their weight would be included in anything heavier.

Cloth armours were also very much... Not great. Definitely better than nothing, but not by much.

Sorta like how urine is better than dehydration. But it'll still kill you eventually.

Mechanically, addressing these problems is it's self problematic.

If you keep the Light-Medium-Heavy dynamic, all 5 problems persist.

If you switch to Armour-Type related skills, you keep problems one, two and three, while also introducing a new problem. This being that, dividing up the Skills in such a way eliminates their uniform foundation, and required an entirely seperate system to account for this (this problem is more obvious when talking about weapons). It also doesn't directly address problems 4 or 5, so you're likely to actually end up with MORE problems than before.

However, if you roll all armour into a single skill, and use Perks to allow differentiation WITHIN that skill (Skyrim's greatest innovation for the series) all those problems go away.

First, armour can behave like armour. Plate functions like Plate, Leather like Leather. What you wear is now dictated by what you need at any given time, what you can afford, and what you like the look of, rather than what fits into the particular Skill-Box you decided to level.

Second, by eliminating competing skills that do the same thing, you're cutting out the irrelevant chaff that exists just to create the illusion of choice.

Third, this allows you to expand actual AC and Damage Types into something with actual character and strategic value. Fallout 4 and Starfield have already done this, though... There are still major problems with AC and Damage reduction calculations in those games that require a whole other dissertation.

Fourth, the elimination of those irrelevant competing skills allows for the specific skills they infringed on to shine. Suddenly, Stealth perks and effects can actually be focused on the Sneak Skill! Imagine that! Dodge and mobility options allow for an actual Athletics Skill to have a functional purpose. Punching someone really hard doesn't have to be about gauntlets just to make an Armour Skill valid as an option. Etc.

And finally... By attaching Encumbrance directly to weight, you not only recreate the forced Encumbrance of the old system by consequence of a natural and intuitive system, but also make Weight in general more meaningful. Suddenly, what you cram into your backpack requires some actual thought, what you take with you requires some strategy, Carryweight and Speed bonuses have new value, and you can actually do interesting things with Feather and gasp BURDEN spells.

You lose 1-2 artificial choices that really only exist to pad a list, and instead gain far more dynamic and deeper choices for less work.

[noble verge]

I'm a fan of systems where a piece of armor only mitigates damage on the part of the hitbox that it covers. No helmet? Take full damage to anything that hits your head.

Admittedly I doubt that it'd be too popular in a fantasy RPG since a lot of people prefer to have their players go helmetless.

[feral viper]

I'm also supportive of that sort of system, though I've been playing with various ideas to... Tweak that for playability.

But I think that plays more into Difficulty settings and that's a whole other thesis entirely...

[austere oasis]

Elderscrolls should adopt the Kingdom Come Deliverance Style of Armor, Combat, and Skills

[small sage]

finds it hilarious that on pelagius' death bed he outlawed death. if only it was so easy >.>

[pulsar root]

I'm a fan of not making things frustrating.

[south marsh]

Alright, so I haven’t played Skyrim since before the anniversary released
At least not much, but if you have the special edition, is the Skyrim Anniversary a free upgrade? Im loaded up into special edition and there’s a note on the right corner with “Available Now: Skyrim Anniversary Upgrade!”

[small sage]

I think it is like 20 bucks for those with special edition

[glass marlin]

It should be on sale right now for Steam if you play on that platform.

[feral viper]

Indeed. I found Kingdom Come altogether... Not a good experience in general.

It tried too hard to mimic historical realism, and it does not control well in that regard. You have to make concessions for the control options you have at your disposal, And KCD did not.

Better than a Fromsoft game, to be sure, but still not the right direction, IMO.

Kingdom Come's Warfare skill actually reflects one of the main problems with that style of Skill system, and the superiority of Skyrim's.

[livid ingot]

Have you watched The Old Knight's videos on YouTube perchance, Terical? He is a new YouTuber that has published a flury of videos defending Oblivion.
I just thought of it because in one of the videos he agrees with you in disliking Fromsoftware games and their combat. But he takes about the polar opposite opinion on TES and argues Oblivion is better than both Skyrim and Morrowind. Of course he's weighing gameplay more than story/lore, but I just love the spectrum of opinion.

As someone who loves the Fromsoftware games and is a defender of Oblivion myself

[feral viper]

I have not. I will have to check it out. I have much negative to say about the gameplay of Oblivion as well though, so we shall see.

[feral viper]

The cliffs notes of which are, for the sake of posterity prior to watching the video so I don't dishonestly change my positions, essentially:

A leveling system that actively punishes specialisation and requires casting as broad a net as possible to be viable, let alone optimised.

Linear progression of Skills so that every single character with a skill at a particular level has the identical expression of that skill.

Lack of gameplay commitment in the use of Magic, rendering it so trivially applicable that you have to actively choose NOT to use it, rather than make concessions for its use.

The atrocious world leveling rendering anything but optimal character progression all but suicide at higher levels.

Even sub-optimal leveling very quickly leading to character homogenisation.

Easily exploitable combat that can be outwitted simply by walking backwards.

The irrelevance of in-game magical options due to the easy of access to Spell-Crafting and the rapid ability to create far more powerful spells than the base game list allows.

[eager remnant]

I'd be interested to know in what ways The Old Knight believes Oblivion is "better" than Morrowind and Skyrim.

[livid ingot]

He doesn't like Morrowind's dice roll combat, and Skyrim is stripped bare of features and mechanics. It's way too easy, too many systems that made the game fun are removed, progression feels terrible, etc

I think his criticisms of Skyrim are pretty standard for critics of that game

[livid ingot]

In comparison with Morrowind specifically, he thinks the progression system feels a lot better in Oblivion. Whereas Morrowind starts out hard and then becomes very easy, Oblivion starts out easy, then becomes hard for the entire midgame, then becomes easy towards the very end.

[nimble pond]

I like all the crap they put into these games that you can interact with. Forks and spoons, mechanisms, plants. It really is a sandbox. I like having lots of stuff to mess with, and having multiple uses/purposes you can do with each item instead of one specific use/function. Perhaps daggers could have unique stealth uses for investing in a sneak skill tree whereas it may have unique sacrificial uses in a conjuration skill tree. Same item, different uses/choices (none of which are locked ofc, you could have both).

[pulsar root]

That level scaling in Oblivion ....I dunno how you can like it.

[eager remnant]

I can actually agree with that, now that you mention it. I seem to recall reading, decades ago, an interview in which Howard or one of the devs said that it had not occurred to them that folks (like myself) would continue to play Morrowind well into the 50's. The higher level range of enemies in Tribunal and Bloodmoon was their attempt to fix that issue. I have looked for this interview a few times over the years but I'll be darned if I can find it anymore.

[livid ingot]

BTW, do you know of a Morrowind mod that slows down progression for mods like Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel?

[eager remnant]

Take a look at this one. It was created specifically with Tamriel Rebuilt in mind. https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50262

[livid ingot]

Thanks 😊

[austere oasis]

That one dark brotherhood assassination in oblivion that let's you crawl into someone's attic and drop a mount on their head was great i wish there was more of that in skyrim

I felt the dark brotherhood questline in skyrim was lacking in comparison to oblivion oblivion dark brotherhood questline is very memorable

[eager remnant]

Yes, I thought that quest ("Accidents Happen") and "Whodunit were interesting. But aside from those two quests I prefer Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood.

[austere oasis]

I thought Skyrims Assassinations were lacking in comparison but the Emperor's Assassination and being kidnapped into the shack were nice but the requirements of joining oblivion db were more scary cause i killed a guy in some dungeon i thought was an enemy and slept in a sleeping bag to level up in the same dungeon and got spooked when lucien approached me Luciens tragedy was done better than Astrids too in the ultra violence lucien was also a great character didn't really like the skyrim brotherhood besides Cicero

I think Oblivion does a great job at a lot but Skyrim has better replayability with its graphics and gameplay however Oblivions quests are more memorable for me and more engaging than most of Skyrims

[pulsar root]

Oblivion was more memorable(When I did the Dark Brotherhood) but.... I am not going to be too harsh because I can't say I know what I would create in a questline for Skyrim.

[feral viper]

Some of Oblivion's individual quests were fun enough, but not enough to redeem the nonsense plot or the terrible reimagining of the Dark Brotherhood as an organization.

The spoopy deff kult is just... Ugh.

[torpid zenith]

Hey guys, i have the anniversary edition on Xbox and share it with my brother. But he can‘t acces the crestion club content like i can exept the free stuff. Is there a fix?

[hollow path]

I feel like the Elder Scrolls 6 needs to bring back weapon and armor durability. With most weapons not needing to worry about running out of ammo I feel like bringing back durability would be a good compromise. Also stamina needs to affect more things like normal attacks and jumping and not just power attacks and sprinting. Also bring back the oxygen bar when swimming, it's annoying having to guess how much time you have left and was cool that you could increase the time you could hold your breath by increasing endurance in the older games.

[pulsar root]

Weapon and Armor durability doesn't add anything, its tedious. It becomes another thing to track and it wasn't my favorite thing in FONV.

[feral viper]

The IDEA has value, I think. But the traditional approach to it has been terrible.

[eager remnant]

One of the problems, as I see it, is that Bethesda has moved away from menu-driven crafting to in-game crafting with the addition of forges, grindstones and workbenches. I personally like this approach and hope they continue it. But it does make degradation hard to implement. Either the devs have to place crafting stations in every dungeon or players will need to carry multiple weapons and armor whenever they venture away from crafting stations. Neither of these are particularly good options.

[feral viper]

That's why I think a fundamental change in approach would be necessary to address it.

But, it's midnight, and we've seen how I get at this hour in my old age, so I'll leave that to tomorrow.

Happy new year folks.

[noble verge]

I think some of Oblivion's biggest problems were the teething troubles from the new mechanics and features that Bethesda was trying out. The potato faces resulted this being their first shot at facial customization, the level scaling system resulted in an entire game of damage sponges and late-game loot piñatas (Morrowind wasn't entirely absolved of this, given how easy it was to farm obscenely valuable weapons from Dremora Lords and Golden Saints at high levels, but this was only one type of enemy out of several, and they still had reasonable hit points that didn't scale to level).

By the time Fallout 3 rolled out, the faces were greatly improved, and Skyrim made the level scaling much more tolerable.

[primal olive]

happy new year I am the first one to say snow elves

[primal olive]

new year, it's the year of the Falmer!! Nords drool snow elves r cool

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/this-statement-is-false-mandy-the-grim-adventures-of-billy-and-mandy-this-claim-is-untrue-this-assertion-is-incorrect-gif-13949362840646808417

[livid ingot]

This raises a great point about archers in particular getting the short end of the stick here. They have to spend money/materials replenishing their primary weapon while melee characters need no such thing

Before mages got regenerating magicka they paid this tax too. Even then stamina is typically more forgiving.

In Skyrim this is really a a matter of principle that a real problem, since arrows are so common (and sneak attacks so broken) that you loot more arrows than you'd ever feasibly need. Still, they do weigh something. Buts that's not really different from other weapons.

[feral viper]

I think that's a general problem with... Well, all of Bethesda's attempts at innovation across the board.

Yes, a lot of it was present in Oblivion, but same with Skyrim.

The change to Leveling being focused on scaling EXP contribution based on skill level to encourage specialisation was so undertuned that most people don't even know it happens.

The change to Perk Trees were so poorly balanced and hamstrung by artistic choices that they lead to most options being either worthless or prerequisites to get to the good ones.

The implementation of weapons that have actual behavioural differences being so insignificant that they're only better than the pre-Skyrim ham-bats on paper.

The change to deeper and more mechanically complex magic being overshadowed by the almost crippling small spell list, making magic feel neutered and inferior despite being more complex..

And it doesn't just stop there. Similar sorts of problems exist in Fallout 4 and Starfield.

Bethesda is one of the few innovators left in the gaming industry. But they have yet to actually manage to stick the landing on any of their innovations.

This has led to them being generally poorly recieved by players, even when those changes are functionally superior.

Skyrim's Perk Trees and Level, Fallout 4s Dialogue, Starfield's Persuasion and Modular Construction, etc.

All fantastic systems that open up huge numbers of doors, but poorly executed to the extent that they are heavily panned as being inferior to the functionally more limited traditional solutions.

[small sage]

likes fallout 4 and starfield and 76 and elder scrolls online and skyrim

oh my god am I a bethesda simp?!

tell me it isnt so terical!

[small sage]

PEERS yes lets piss off the race you caused to slaughter you, to slaughter you yet again.

it's almost as bad as resurrecting the ayelids

[primal olive]

bosmer

itty bitty

[small sage]

we may be itty bitty, but we pack a wallop

and will be eating you

[pulsar root]

If you wanna lose allies, being a cannibal, sure go nuts.

[small sage]

you dont get it. Bosmer following the meat mandate have to eat what they kill and use whatever is left with tools and such

course bosmer outside of valenwood dont do this because I guess eating your enemies tends to send the wrong message

dont harm our trees and plants and you wont get eaten k thx

[primal olive]

me personally if my prince was killed by a squire I'd fireball them into oblivion

if I ever get a make a wish it would be for playable snow elves frfr

[small sage]

ew snow elves.

[nimble pond]

Jeepers creepers
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8fd08b736a784bc1e1440028b0a88e66/f2170174f1ef3a48-85/s540x810/01c68eabc3713da52c953927defd656c5518d256.gif

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/adventure-time-tree-in-the-tree-part-of-the-tree-cute-gif-17500205

As much as I give them flack, I am also a Bethesda simp.

Because, at the end of the day, despite my problems, I still enjoy PLAYING their games. Shallow writing, clunky worldbuilding, barely functional mechanics, and all.

It is a testament to the soul of them and their games that they are as good as they are, even in the rickity state they are.

If Bethesda were to ever release a well written, well built world with polished mechanics that actually push their potential...

Well, I'm not sure we'd ever have cause to play anything else.

[primal olive]

eh better than bloodsuckers who terrorize our villages /lighthearted

[primal olive]

honestly true I absolutely crap on starfield but I put 2 weeks of playtime into it on release in the first 3 weeks

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-viralhog-cute-im-watching-you-security-guard-gif-20604758

[feral viper]

Bethesda is a sort of manic brilliance.

Like Howe's Moving Castle. It works, despite its dysfunction, and in working it's also somehow magical.

And while there is a lot I would change...

I will never not defend Bethesda for what it DOES.

I'll still razz them and push for improvements though.

Because there is no such thing as Perfection, and we should always strive to be better.

[nimble pond]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-28-2021/ATq_hy.gif

[harsh crown]

https://tenor.com/view/no-kitty-this-is-my-pot-pie-south-park-cartman-bad-kitty-gif-18850143

[gloomy anchor]

I love pot pie lol

i get those cheesy chicken bacon pot pies from the store like all the time

[nimble pond]

https://i.gifer.com/1q4z.gif
A typical meeting between Argonians & Khajiit in Tamriel. Hist powers vs. max lvl acrobatics.

[feral viper]

Argonian used Cucumber. It was super effective!

https://tenor.com/view/cucumber-lolol-cats-scarycat-scared-gif-9817696

[small sage]

do khajiit freak out when they see cucumbers?

this could be a way to discern housecats and khajiit

[feral viper]

The ultimate Afliq-spy detection system.

[small sage]

I just saw the most cutest robert de niro movie I have ever seen

had jennifer gardner, robert de niro, and christopher walken

Nine lives is the name of the movie. IT's about a billionaire being traped in the body of a cat he gets for his daughter for a birthday present.

it inspired me to play my khajiit again

[feral viper]

You had me at De Niro

[stark flower]

I need to see this.

[wide garnet]

That reminds me of something I saw once:

News: Robert De Niro reports that he's going broke due to the pandemic.

Smart Aleck: So... does that mean ' no De Niro'?

https://tenor.com/view/fozzy-fozzie-bear-fozzy-bear-fozzie-muppets-gif-9055812099601683817

[night violet]

I don't know if the BGS staff looks through this at all. But i have a suggestion for TES VI. If they don't then it's just an idea i wanted to share lol

I would love if we had the options to donate gold in large amounts to various places. Like an orphanage or a temple to help the needy.

It would be cool to play a Robin Hood style thief that steals from the rich and gives to the needy and poor.

Oblivion and Skyrim thiefing is all about greed, and that is imporant too.

I just like the idea that the game mechanics might allow us to be either a thief for either Selfish or Selfless reasons.

[feral viper]

I think, in general, the entire economy of the games needs to be significantly overhauled.

Because... Well... There IS NO economy.

At the very least, there needs to be more ways to regularly liquidate currency to minimise the enormous hoards of wealth players can do easily accumulate.

[livid ingot]

Honestly I think the game economy is always going to fall into the realm of modders

It's one of those systems that your average player won't even notice, so Beth is unlikely to devote resources to it

If the Radiant A.I. concept is ever revived, a working economy could be soo cool, with NPCs constantly buying and selling

But yeah, I don't think Beth will ever realize that aspect, at least in the near future.

[feral viper]

Indeed. Which is why I supported the position with the idea of, effectively, Wealth Dumps of some sort.

I'd personally PREFER an economic and trade mechanic, as my previous ramblings over the years have indicated. Even designed a basic one, at least in concept.

But, it's definitely lower on the list of things that I think need to be addressed.

[torpid zenith]

There is no white questmarker one the compass or the person anymore. HELP!

[livid ingot]

You might have more luck at #1087805579399004210

[night violet]

If we get a variant of the trait system from Starfield in TES VI, I would love to see more integration with each other

Like, if we get one that lets us be a native to the Providence we are in, and we get one for having parents or sibling in game, they should reflect those combinations.

[uncut bluff]

Not sure of this is the best place, but I’d like to make a couple of requests for TES VI:

1. Make Dremora a playable race
2. Let the player join and explore the Psijic Order.

[feral viper]

1: Dremora are problematic from a game design standpoint because... Well, they're immortal. When they die, they just go home, and can come back later. As such, I generally think that they're best left to modders and not part of the base game.

2: I think it depends on the province, but I could see the Psijics becoming more and more present across Tamriel in the wake of the collapse of the Mages Guild, and the general incompetence of the Synod and College of Whispers.

[feral viper]

I think that a deeper variant of the Trait system could really expand multiple aspects of the game, especially if integrated more generally.

While I'm not a fan of things like Kid Stuff (imposing premade parents on your character) I think something like X-province Native could have some interesting play.

Imagine you choose Morrowind Native, and that gated certain Background (starting Skill levels and perks) options such as House Retainer of Hlaalu Exile. Then, you link special dialogue options to NPCs who also use that background option in their character file.

Suddenly, who you were before and where you're from could actually turn up as relevant in gameplay, something which the games have never done before.

[uncut bluff]

@feral viper

1. Oh, I didn’t know that. Other than summoned Dremora, which I assumed would be a special case, I thought only Daedra were immortal. Thinking about it, I suppose my deeper desire is to be able to explore Dremoran Society more deeply without having to kill them all of the time. Oblivion gave us some nice lore, but I’d like more plus social interactions.

2. Good points.

[feral viper]

Dremora, like all Daedra, are effectively immortal spirits inhabiting a meat puppet. When that puppet recieves sufficient damage as to no longer be usable, the Daedric spirit returns to whichever realm it prefers and grows a new one out of whatever that realms 'Chaotic Creatia' medium is. For instance, in Coldharbour, it's a material called Azure Plasm. While they do seem to be able to alter certain aspects of these bodies, they seem to be limited by a morphotype which is inherent to them. So a Dremora could only reemerge as a Dremora, and not an Ogrim, for instance.

I DO think that there could be a really neat, macabre and more mature game centred around this idea, but considering the target ratings of Bethesda and their games, I highly doubt we'll see such a thing any time soon.

In actuality, I could see several sorts of games focusing on Daedra in this macabre, live-die-repeat format being quite stylistic and interesting.

Rogue likes. Hero shooters. MOBAs. First person combat games. Even a Souls-like.

Imagine a game like Hades, where you're a Golden Saint, fighting an endless war against the Dark Seducers for the amusement of Sheogorath?

Or a game like Agony, where you're a Dremora on a revenge bint against a Markynaz who framed you for failure and dishonoured you before your clan?

Or a melee-focused Hero Shooter where you're Dremora clans fighting in mock wars for the amusement of Molag Bal?

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/pickle-ed-edd-n-eddy-cartoon-funny-derp-gif-19099906

[livid ingot]

I don't think it's so much a limitation on form as conforming with the clan a daedra identifies with.
I imagine daedra might change clans but rarely actually do

[pulsar root]

Not really a fan of playable daedra but thats me. If any new race would come in the minotaur would be fine.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, as far as new races go, any of the "beast races" are pretty fair game, then the Maomer or other elves, then finally the Akaviri

[feral viper]

I mean, a Dremora will always be a Dremora, but their features, gender and clan affiliation are relatively fluid.

Azure Plasm laya this out for us, citing the Daedra's Morphotype

[feral viper]

Oh, don't get me started on Minotaurs. The fact that we still don't have Minotaurs in Legion armour as Imperial Shock troops is a crime.

[uncut bluff]

@feral viper Those are some cool ideas. TES games are already rated mature, though it seems are larger age range plays. So it may not be too off to make a darker game. Or perhaps, it could be even be a mobile game if it is more niche, but I think it would make a cool storyline either way.

The idea of being an immortal spirit seems to combine the concepts of Oblivion and Skyrim where you were fighting a battle between 2 worlds in the former and you were a person with unique abilities that go beyond spell casting and melee in the later. Being an immortal spirit could grant both in a whole new way. Mechanics could work similar to vampirism where the longer you stay in the physical world the more powerful you become requiring your travel back and forth to be strategic. Perhaps as you level up you would get perks to start at higher power levels when you remanifest on Mundus.

[bitter kestrel]

Let's keep it civil please!

[feral viper]

Oh boy, if that wasn't civil, I should make sure never to voice my actual opinion of the ESRB... Duly noted

Point being, I don't expect to see anything done with the subject.

[livid ingot]

Being dremora is merely an association, that's what I meant to get at. As per Battlespire lore, clan Dremora, clan Xivilai, clan Shardai

Since daedra can presumably take any form they please, like armour, it makes sense that the form they choose would represent the "clan" they identify with, like a uniform.

[feral viper]

And it's been changed since Battlespire, yeah.

Per Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm;

'It has long been understood that a Daedra, who lacks the Anuic animus known as the "soul," is not killed when its body is destroyed. A Daedra slain upon Mundus is merely "banished" back to its plane of origin, where its morphotype, or "vestige," gradually forms a new body, so that eventually the Daedra lives again. (This happens as well when a Daedra is slain in its native Oblivion.)

Furthermore, we have long known from the Daedra themselves that their bodies are formed from the very stuff of chaos, the "creatia" of Oblivion, a shapeless but energetic material that accretes around a vestige until it conforms to the morphotype's inherent pattern.'

[livid ingot]

That's the same as it always has been. 🤔

[feral viper]

Xivlai and Dremora are different species of Daedra. There morphotypes would be inherently different, and therefore they could not interchangeable shift between eachother.

The Morphotype had an inherent pattern.

[livid ingot]

Oh, that last bit

[feral viper]

I wrote a whole thesis on the Soul in TES and what the inclusion of a Morphotype means for mortals, but that was back when I cared

[livid ingot]

Hmm. Not sure I care for that anyway. Doesn't make sense since daedra can change their appearance at will

[feral viper]

It would make sense within the setting with how gods and spirits arise and function. Illusion and magical shape shifting could blend the lines, but every time you come back you'd be in your 'default' form.

But, that's largely a lore side of things, and really... I fully expect it to just be forgotten, retconned or ignored as is convenient

[nimble pond]

Wait what? Players morphing into different daedra forms?? Hmm cool idea. I mean the dragon shout from last dragonborn dlc that gives u the dragon armor was pretty cool already.

And love it or hate it. I think we will get more transportation options in upcoming TES and Fallout (really want a radscorpion tank!), after looking back at Starfield ships and then even the buggy in dlc..

[small sage]

okay I lied it dont have de niro

but it is still a good movie I think it has Kevin Spacey cant remember the name of the actor

[night violet]

If they do a chosen one plot line and it was hammerfell, it will likely be some sort of Ansei plot line

One thing that would be cool is allowing us to customize your She-hai, so not everyone is forced to use the same weapon.

(I actually don't know if Shehai can only be swords or not)

[feral viper]

You will be the Hoonding.

https://tenor.com/view/i-guarantee-it-i-promise-thumbs-up-you-got-it-you-bet-gif-16076898

[nimble pond]

My shehai will be a breadstick.

[wide garnet]

Your what?

[eager remnant]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shehai

[nimble pond]

🥖

[small sage]

if your shehai was a breadstick does this mean your spirit sword doubles as daily rations?

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/pickle-ed-edd-n-eddy-cartoon-funny-derp-gif-19099906

[livid ingot]

My shehai will be a fish stick

[night violet]

Another two traits we need to start with in TTES VI

Vampire/Lycanthropy traits. So we get special dialogue that our characters were already those things before the game started.

Assuming they have those in TTES VI. I can't imagine they leave our Vampires at least.

[wide garnet]

Mine will be a giant pickle.

[nimble pond]

Could call it "cursed." Lol Like during full moons, you are to forced to transform into the beast. And vamps ofc burn in the sun.

[night violet]

If that's the case the version you catch via normal game play should have that too.

Likely the downsides will be something like the wanted trait in Starfield

Vampire/Lycanthropic hunters are stalking you

[nimble pond]

I guess they could separate between pure-bloods and infected?

[night violet]

Possible as well. Though I would hate to play a daughter of cold harbor given what involved with becoming one.

Though Lamae might be in the game

[slim nova]

good evening

[night violet]

I would like to see more diversity in factions for TES VI. Like, there should be a few non-imperal legion members in oblivion. But I can't remember being a single one

[ashen lion]

https://tenor.com/view/daryl-dixon-twd-daryl-twd-daryl-dixon-daryl-twd-the-walking-dead-daryl-dixon-gif-7937162946291872031

[noble verge]

There wasn't really a lot of the Imperial Legion in TES IV at all, outside of the Imperial City.

If I also recall, the Male Imperial was the only voice (aside from the Golden Saint and Dark Seducer in SI) that had arrest dialogue lines, which means that the Nord Guard Captain in Chorrol and the Breton Guard Captain in Cheydinhal couldn't place you under arrest.

[nimble pond]

Our response when we finally wash ashore on the land of Akavir. TESVII, release date: Year 3001.

[small sage]

akavir stinks and has no party snax so instant downer

[last dew]

I hope we get to play as the Shezarrine in TES 6.

I want the Thalmor to be the core focus so I can beat the living crap out of them.

[slim nova]

good afternoon. you guys curious too, in what are we gonna see at TES 6? Like story wise?

[hidden herald]

I wonder if in-universe, Khajiit are also afraid of pickles

[cosmic sierra]

That has to be cannon

[feral viper]

I don't think they're fleshed out enough to make a viable focus.

Though, then again, neither did Mankar, Alduin, of anything in Starfield.

So fleshed out doesn't seem to be a job requirement.

[nimble pond]

Hell with pickles.. just make sweetrolls come to life and become the newest addition to the TES races, the living foods, and play as a sweetroll.

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/embarrassed-saturday-night-live-shy-lol-laugh-gif-19002024

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-gingerbread-man-you-are-a-monster-broken-leg-shrek-gif-5498298

[nimble pond]

With a race this yummy, they'll reach extinction quicker than that of the snow elves..

[feral viper]

If Warhammer Halflings can make it, so can the Sweetroll-Folk.

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/khajiit-pet-headpats-head-pats-gif-1011058703073280457

[magic dew]

Why molag bal hot

[plucky topaz]

Why do people believe argonians have feelings?

Last I checked, Farm Tools have warranties

[nocturne stone]

Because Molag means fire

[magic dew]

And bc hot

[nocturne stone]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-gif-13575853101874488635

[plucky topaz]

Nah, have y’all seen Azura?

[primal olive]

yes she's the best daedra, she loves her followers and wants their true love for her, not fake love or bland desire for power

[plucky topaz]

Finally! Someone gets it.

@magic dew see? Someone gets it.

[primal olive]

It's probably why the betrayal of the tribunal hurt her so bad too, She was wounded by the loss of her people's love and the murder of her devoted champion

[magic dew]

Molag bal better

[plucky topaz]

But he’s mean and not a BUSTY deadric prince.

[magic dew]

But he can make me hot vampire

[plucky topaz]

But if you were hot before you became a vampire, wouldn’t you just be a regular vampire?

Follow up.

I’d prefer Azura’s realm After death because there I’d be safe from Molag doing unspeakable things to me and my bloodline

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-miz-disappointed-shakes-head-shaking-my-head-annoyed-gif-17860184

[nimble pond]

Lady of the Shadows > all

[feral viper]

Personally, I prefer my relationships as mutually supportive partnerships. Which kinda excludes all Daedra and Aedra.

Because gods are generally self serving egotists who demand worship, rather than engage in fair and honest partnerships.

Which is why, Warlock > Cleric.

[spare anchor]

Ok I have to share this because it's too perfect
https://gear.bethesda.net/products/the-elder-scrolls-sweet-roll-plush

[night violet]

"Let me guess. Someone stole your sweet roll."

[feral viper]

More seriously, recently saw the trailer for The Blood of Dawnwalker...

Among other things which I think will likely change when the actual gameplay reveal happens (such as Stealth, Parkour, combat powers, etc) I think one thing it really highlights is GOOD Vampires.

This is also supported by the recent fantastic Nosferatu remake (which is focused more on the force of nature and terror that a Vampire is, and less on the social commentary of previous versions), as well as Last Voyage of the Demeter, to (I hope) bring Vampires out of the Twilight and Rice age, and back to their proper monstrous throne.

And I hope Bethesda is watching these for inspiration. Because vampires across TES have been incredibly lame.

It's time to treat the king of monsters as the vicious predator it is.

[glass marlin]

I want this.

[fallow thunder]

A lot of the community really dont like the upcoming changes on ESO. Maybe it wasnt explained right but it sounds like some of my friends who can play limited content for free wont be able to and there will not be any more areas just dungeons and trial areas. You have to understand if you charge everyone we are a community, if we the people who pay have more people go in a already 10 year old game because they have no options, what is the point of playing for us? A community is what makes this game.

[eager remnant]

This is a chat for the single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. Questions or comments concerning Elder Scrolls Online should be posted on the ZeniMax Online Studios forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[night violet]

Just want to ask, if ESO content does show up in TES VI, will we be able to discuss that at that point? I seriously doubt that the main series won't reference the online game at some point in the future.

[feral viper]

Content is frequently a topic around here. The lore, worldbuilding and styles are entirely relevant.

Gameplay, mechanics, and service models, on the other hand, are outside the bounds of this particular channel.

[night violet]

I was told I couldn't discuss the lore here when I asked though

[feral viper]

Oh, that's a new rule I've never seen.

[night violet]

I can't find the message now but I was sure I was talking about the game lore and was told not to because it's not part of the single player games

Maybe I had strayed into game play or something. I can't seem to find it now but it's why I've avoided talking about it in these channels lol

[eager remnant]

If it relates to the single player games in some way (such as "I think X feature from ESO should be incorporated into TES VI" or "I don't want X feature from ESO to be incorporated into TES6") then it is acceptable. Discussing ESO by itself, with no reference to the single player games, is not acceptable. Discussion of lore added by ESO has always been acceptable in the lore chat.

[feral viper]

Yeah, some ideas, such as ESO's Motifs and the variability of visuals in crafting, have come up relatively frequently in conversation without issue.

Another thing ESO does that I think is a useful idea for the single player games, is different grades of Solvents to drive Alchemy and potency of crafted alchemical concoctions.

[nimble pond]

If only the giant volcano in Morrowind was instead a giant sweetroll, occasionally erupting sweet, sugary icing.

[feral viper]

I dunno man, Volcanoes are pretty sweet. I think it qualifies.

[slim nova]

hello there

[feral viper]

Hello.

[slim nova]

soo ... eso stuff? here?

[eager remnant]

See my previous two posts.

[nimble pond]

TES's spiritual successor, Wayward Realms is supposed to drop early access this year apparently

[feral viper]

I am not optimistic, honestly. It just looks like Oblivion meets Kingdom Come, and instantly puts me asleep.

I'm sure at least one of my friends will get it though, so I'll probably at least get the opportunity to play with the mechanics a bit. May be something to dig into there.

[night violet]

Do you think TES VI will feature a deployable camp or settlement system of some sort?

Or perhaps both. They did a creation for a deployable camp in Skyrim. They could have something in TES VI, especially if the map is bigger than Skyrims.

And I think by now, they will do something where you can build your own home. They have done quite a bit with that system Already in Fallout 76 and Starfield

[eager remnant]

I'd be surprised if they didn't include some sort of settlement system in TES 6. Personally, I'd like to see something like Bloodmoon's single-location "build up raven rock' approach combined with the flexibility of Fallout 4's settlement building mechanics.

[night violet]

I've been wondering if perhaps the main quest might be built around rebuilding Wayrest.

The prisoner to king/Queen Troupe could be an interesting one to explore.

Of course, that is hinging on the game being in High Rock. Hoping they give us a little something for the 31st anniversary of elder scrolls this year. They did reveal they had a working build last year in the anniversary

[austere oasis]

Would be nice to get more destructible environment segments whether sieges or something like a rockslide that destroys part of a mountain I want to see grand scale destruction related quests in ES6

[cunning lantern]

Hello

Why is my luck always like this

[livid ingot]

You got to put more points into your Luck stat

[cunning lantern]

Can anyone help my broken ass?

[livid ingot]

We can't help unless we actually know the problem. That being said, if you're having problems there's a chat room for that: #1087805579399004210

[cunning lantern]

I am broke to buy Skyrim even at sale

[feral viper]

Plenty of ruined cities in southern Hammerfell without having to rope Highrock into the game.

Splitting between Hammerfell and Highrock would almost guarantee an inferior product.

[slim nova]

ok

[tardy tiger]

Maybe but honestly I'd rather furnishings be placed before hand and not something I have to fiddle around with before giving up and wasting a mod slot for it.

[slim nova]

that settlement part would be a little nostalgic, like on the morrowind bloodmoon part

something like stock certificate would be not bad too

[feral viper]

A blend of Starfield's Shipbuilding, Fallout 4s Settlement management, and Bloodmoon's Raven Rock, would be the best way to integrate it into the general setting of TES..

On the whole, I think the game worlds are too small to really facilitate freeform construction or 'Camping'.

[slim nova]

i wonder, if the fighters guild is gonna make some apperance in TES VI

[timid drum]

Eh, I doubt it, there's prob gonna be some new faction

[slim nova]

multiple faction similar like fighters guild?

[timid drum]

Yeah, I mean, in skyrim, the faction closest to the fighters guild is the compaines sorry dyslexic, ik its spelled wrong

[slim nova]

no worries

[feral viper]

The Fighters Guild was never anything more than the dominant mercenary company in Tamriel. That is, in it's self, a precarious position, and by the time of Oblivion mismanagement of it had already put it to the point where a random ass Merc company which frequently killed their own clients was able to out preform it.

So, I suspect that, if it even exists, the Fighters Guild is a shadow of its former self.

[timid drum]

Agreed, thats why I compared them to the group I mentioned. They basically do the same thing, you go out and kill something, then you return and you get rewarded, so its just mercenary work

[slim nova]

true

hmm ... i wonder, if the devs are collection some ideas from outside?

[feral viper]

The effectively collapse of their monopoly could also cause their affiliates in other areas to go independent, further decentralising the mercenary economy across Tamriel. This would lead to far more such groups, even opening up the doors to privatised war between different Mercs.

[feral viper]

They may. But, if they are, IMO they're not collecting the good ones.

[slim nova]

aww ... damn

[feral viper]

That is my opinion of course. Many people like the world building and stories that have gone on over the last 20 years.

[magic dew]

reminder that molag bal is hot

[feral viper]

Nah. It's called Coldfire for a reason.

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tuss-jokes-gotcha-burn-ouch-gif-5645546

[hidden herald]

Stone Fire is cold after all

[gentle inlet]

I can't find the eso channel can someone help

[nocturne stone]

There is no ESO channel on this server because it is for games developed by Bethesda Game Studios specifically. ESO is developed by Zenimax Online Studios.

If you would like to discuss ESO, you can do so on the forums here.

[gentle inlet]

Is there a zenimax discord that had a eso channel?

[nocturne stone]

Though you can discuss ESO lore in #elder-scrolls-lore, for the record.

[nocturne stone]

There is an ESO Discord, but it has no discussion channels, usually.

[gentle inlet]

Oh ok

[rotund marsh]

is there not an ESO channel here? sorry for the silly question

[eager remnant]

This is a chat for the single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. Questions or comments concerning Elder Scrolls Online should be posted on the ZeniMax Online Studios forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[rotund marsh]

thank you!

[primal olive]

not too fond of the companions

[timid drum]

Neither am I, I just join for the werewolf powers

[formal anvil]

Guys i might need some helps, where should i keep my stuff?

[timid drum]

In your own house, or have a follower carry stuff

[feral viper]

I'm not fond of the Companions either. Though it is more because of the execution than the idea.

Which is sort of a problem across the board with Skyrim. None of its stories or factions are themselves bad, but the incredibly rushed execution of them leaves them feeling bad.

[primal olive]

I'm not fond of them because I play elves, and the dogs of Ysgramor are notoriously genocidal

although! you could say that's bc of the stuff between Lorkhan and Auri-El

[feral viper]

I also play elves, almost exclusively. Which makes reforging Wuuthrad, then throwing it into the deepest part of the ocean very cathartic.

[primal olive]

true

"suck sload soap Ysgramor!"

[feral viper]

Dunmer play the long game. I'll ingratiate myself to your farce of a company, then I'll take your most prized possession and put it out of your reach forever.

Maybe next time I should throw it into the volcano that powers the Aetherium Forge...

[primal olive]

TRUE

I might do a vanilla run now lol

[feral viper]

Still, story elements not withstanding, the core issue with Skyrim's factions and quests is primarily with the pacing.

I don't know what caused it, but it's like they totally forgot how story structure and plot progression work. Instead just jumping from major point to major point with no actual acclimation or down time between them.

[primal olive]

blah blah Altmer archer, or should I do a tank....

[primal olive]

I never thought about that tbh but interesting point

[feral viper]

I was formed by a single line in the Diablo: Hellfire manual.

'Magic is all well and good, but when it comes down to it, all you can rely on is three feet of steel and a strong arm'.

So sword and board is my security blanket.

[primal olive]

true

I wish Auri-El's shield was light and not heavy

like that makes no sense to me bleh, they probably didn't want heavy armor users to feel abandoned

hmmm....

combat archer sounds fun though lol

[feral viper]

I'm of the opinion that Light and Heavy shouldn't even exist as distinctions myself...

[primal olive]

i think it should in some manner

closer to ESO though

[feral viper]

As a natural consequence of wearing MORE armour? Sure.

But as explicit classes of armour? Nah. That causes more problems than it's worth.

The only reason for a full suit of Leather Armour to weigh less than a full suit of Plate, is not knowing how armour works.

[primal olive]

actually I see your point and quite like what you mean, like heavy armor is more durable but slower, BUT there's no distinct perk seperation

[primal olive]

or like why can't we have lighter variations of certain metals? I'm sure you could have thinner ebony plates and stuff

[feral viper]

I think there's room to do interesting things with Perks, sure, but they should be about specific types of armour rather than arbitrary classes determined by made up weights.

Plate Armour is going to behave like Plate Armour regardless of whether it's made of Iron, Ebony or Glass

[primal olive]

TRUE

[feral viper]

And when you get up to top tier armours, regardless of class, they're ALL Plate. So why do they behave differently?

[primal olive]

I do like that ESO (scary mentioning it here) shows us varying levels of armor on motifs made by the races

[feral viper]

Absolutely, and I think there's inspiration to be drawn for a truely amazing crafting system there.

But not Armour directly.

Unless you go REALLY deep into armour design, where things line Fluting and Composites influence the end result...

But that's getting to unnecessary levels for an RPG.

[primal olive]

true

[feral viper]

But, I have to make pizza dough, then install a door. So I'll be back when I'm back.

[pulsar root]

Mmmm Pizza

[noble verge]

Yeah, I felt that it moved too quickly, padded by random quests.

In Oblivion, for example, the "filler" Fighters Guild quests were not only unique, but sometimes would tie into events in the "main" guild questline, like Water's Edge or working with Maglir. And in the Mages Guild, several of the recommendation quests end up tying into its main story and help set the mood for how things are in the Guild in the aftermath of Traven's reforms.

[feral viper]

Indeed. While it's actual stories were inferior at basically every turn... Oblivion's questlines were far better paced, giving events and revelations time to actually sit with you before just... Rushing you off to the next set piece.

[gusty hinge]

anyone have issue with golden claw quest know of a fix?

[rugged hazel]

im starting to hate the eso launcher i did do a help in [elder-scrolls-support]

[eager remnant]

This is a chat for the single-player Elder Scrolls games made by Bethesda Game Studios. Questions or comments concerning Elder Scrolls Online should be posted on the ZeniMax Online Studios forums. You can find their forums here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[nimble pond]

I hope there's like some crazy wild cooking/chefs guild or college with some of the most outrageous ingredients in all of Tamriel to find. Open up our own tavern with our own selected menu

[charred condor]

I’m gonna buy Skyrim special edition, should I also get the anniversary upgrade?

Sale ends in 2 hours so I gotta make a quick decision

[timid drum]

yes, its amazing, you def should

[charred condor]

Is the creation club content worth it?

Because the upgrade is all cc stuff from before 2021

[timid drum]

I don't use creation club, I will once I get all the achievments tho
But AE edition has so much more add ons for game play, I love it

[charred condor]

I saw a bunch of complaints about it breaking mods and making the game buggier

It’s also an extra 10$ compared to the 4$ base game rn

[timid drum]

Ah alr
In my experience, AE is far less buggier then the vanilla game

[charred condor]

I’ll do more digging ig

[timid drum]

Alr, but tbh, AE is def worth it

[charred condor]

Ok

[feral viper]

Home made pizza is a whole other level of Mmmm.

I'm weird though, I use a bread dough for the crust instead of a true pizza dough.

Anyway, back on topic.

I've said before, and I'll reiterate and expand...

My general philosophy with RPGs is that a Character is a Toolbox. Any problem they encounter, they have to use the tools in the box to resolve.

Different types of RPGs go about this differently. Party RPGs typically give you multiple characters that are specialised for particular activities. So when a problem related to their toolset comes up, they are the one you use to resolve it.

Defined Single Character RPGs typically impose a Class, which defines your toolbox. This guides (or dictates) your decisions moving forward, giving you access to specific tools and directing your problem solving solutions.

Free Form RPGs (Like TES) allow you to build your own toolbox. Sometimes with restrictions, sometimes without.

The characters abilities are ultimately defined by what's in the toolbox.

The players responsibility then, is to know what's in the toolbox and to be able to make decisions based on them.

Now, this sort of baseline concept work is all well and good, but why is it relevant?

Because when you have systems in place that are too obtuse, complicated or poorly explained that the Player is unable to easily recognise how they interact with the tools available to them, they don't create a dynamic where players can make active decisions based on them.

Armour is a perfect example of this problem.

Not only do both armour classes basically do the exact same thing, but the formula used to calculate armour and damage isn't something that is readily available, makes sense, or reactive.

There's no strategy, no character, and no counter play. You just use what has the highest numbers, and hope for the best.

[night violet]

I really hope they're using this time for TES VI wisely. If they crash and burn on TES VI, I don't see them recovering from that given the time gap between Skyrim and this game.

[feral viper]

They've been crashing and burning upwards for decades.

TES6 will be no different.

It will get mountains of criticism on release, still sell like hotcakes, and be played by people consistently for the next decade.

[night violet]

I don't know. Maybe if it had come out sooner, but I really think this massive time gap is going to be the telling factor. Will TES VI get much mercy if it's bad given the length of time it took.

I really hope they have been looking at Starfield and seeing what's been praised and what hasn't. We are in an era where information like that is readily available.

[bitter kestrel]

[nimble pond]

What?! They banished worship of the great and mighty Todd Howard? Those spineless critics..

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/adding-sugar-bobby-hicks-pouring-sugar-heres-some-sugar-gif-27307211

Right, point being.

People will complain either way. And they will play it even in spite of their complaints.

We no longer live in a world where quality matters, and facts exist. We live in a world where bias and opinions overrule reality, and brand loyalty drives sales.

The best you, or I, or anyone else can do, is set zero expectations and wait to judge the product in isolation when it comes out.

So don't hope. Just wait, see what TES6 is when it releases, and base your opinion on that.

[pulsar root]

Things have changed since Skyrim. Social Media age makes releasing video games harder

[feral viper]

A lot of the problems were already present at the time. Look at the criticisms of Skyrim:

You can master everything: It was the first game since Arena where mastering everything was explicitly impossible at launch.

Fewer enemy types: Skyrim had 3 MORE enemy types than Oblivion.

Simplified Magic: Skyrim's magic system is actually MORE complex and has more behavioural variables than Oblivion or Morrowind.

Smaller cities: Skyrim's cities are comparable in size to Oblivion's, it just lacks something like The Imperial City.

No Attributes makes everyone the same: Skyrim's perks have orders of magnitudes more potential outcomes than the Attribute system did.

Facts had already ceased to be relevant. The only thing that's changed with the mass-use of Social Media is it's easier to get the factually wrong hate train rolling.

[feral viper]

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying that social media wasn't present at the time, but it's mass adoption as a method of communication wasn't near the same scale it is now.

It also hadn't polarised into... Well, let's be real, the algorithmic, propagandized echo chamber it has become.

But even then, as you say, that negativity was already present long before now. Even when Morrowind released, it was 'The death of TES'.

The criticism has always, and will always be there. The main change has been in front loading it to poison expectations before the product even releases now.

Which works both ways, fan bandwagons can get started and make a game a success before it even drops too.

[nimble pond]

Ngl. I really would like the inclusion of Voodoo dolls (or something of the like) in TES Necromancy. I would have an absolute ball with that.

[distant moss]

Hi is there a suggestion area for the upcoming elder scrolls game? I know it likely won't be heard or isn't worth anybody's time. I just want to give my two cents.

[distant moss]

I don't think its a crazy enough idea to be copyrighted, but sure

[nimble pond]

We all post our ideas and we've pretty much covered most of it.

[distant moss]

oh so it is cool to post here?

[feral viper]

I mean, that's basically all I do, and I haven't gotten yelled at yet.

At least, not for that specifically.

[distant moss]

oh cool that post earlier was just messing ig

So my idea was that in Skyrim a main focus was raiding dungeons or camps and taking loot (I think we've all likely done the over encumbered crawl). I feel that there was never enough to do with this capital. Once you reach peak smithing there was no use for money besides buying static houses. I think it would be cool if they added more to do with money like business owning, building a mercenary company, building a bandit camp, castle, and a bunch of improvements intertwined with these that could keep the player active more in the mid-late game.

Another idea that kind of ties into this is showing that the player is actually powerful. You can become a master of every guild, yet they effectively treat you as a henchman with a glorified title. Like they only keep you around to kill people. It would be cool if there were more positions in a hierarchy than the jarls dog.

[feral viper]

Absolutely. The economy in these games is...

Well, it's less an economy, and more a dragon hoarding gold.

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-gold-hoarder-hoard-smaug-gif-15973167

[feral viper]

I should start saving for a Smaug model... Make it a proper dragon...

By putting an Elf on it.

[distant moss]

https://tenor.com/view/aww-hell-nahh-aww-hell-aww-hell-nahh-gif-9659330954843262630

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-miz-disappointed-shakes-head-shaking-my-head-annoyed-gif-17860184

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/imrik-total-war-warhammer-knights-of-caledor-high-elves-warhammer-fantasy-gif-25006739

The Thalmor should ally with the now-leaderless Dragons.

Put those round eared barbarians in their place.

[wide garnet]

Dovahkiin: Just try...

[feral viper]

Heroes remove themselves from History. It's part of the game fate plays.

So they're a non-issue.

[pulsar root]

💀

[nimble pond]

An active economy would help. It's too easy to become a billionaire overnight. And if they give us kingdoms or castles to rule, they could have allowances for servants, guards, and your citizens.

[feral viper]

No. But bear in mind, I think Souls combat is terrible and boring..

Blocking should it's self, be a shield-only behaviour. That's what they're designed for, and that's what they're primarily used for.

Active defensive options for weapons should be Parrying, requiring a little more coordination from the player but also not leaving you in a static position and better able to counter.

[glass marlin]

You might want to delete that.

[feral viper]

Basically, Blocking should be like Skyrim blocking. You hide behind your shield, that's it.

Partying, however, would be more like Assassin's Creed, Dark Souls, or even the Doom: Dark Ages showcase. A time action taken in an enemies attack window.

[glass marlin]

Also I don't think making any Elder Scrolls game "souls-like" is the right move.

[feral viper]

Well, I don't think ANY game being Souls-like is the right move.

But even those games have some value to learn from.

[pulsar root]

I mean yes but they should take inspiration from a non soulslike game with decent combat mechanics. Blocking mechanics are fine so far as they are fun and aren't trying to be "hard" It shouldn't be where it has to be super precise.

I'm talking base difficulty though. Maybe you could do that at like Daedric level difficulty but I'm mixed on it

[feral viper]

Well, there's the spoiler... I don't actually think there are any games with good combat mechanics. For melee, anyway.

There's lots of disparate elements across the industry, but no one's actually built a good system out of them.

Which is... A whole topic I'll have to wait till lunch break to get into.

[feral viper]

Right, to the point of combat...

As I've said, I don't think there's actually a good system out there for Melee. Shooting we've got pretty much down, but Melee is still a trainwreck.

Some games to better than others. Dark Messiah and Chivalry, for instance. Some games have useful elements to them, such as Halo, Minecraft, Vermintide, even Dark Souls. Some games have just god awful combat, like Oblivion.

But there isn't a single melee-system in gaming that I would call Good, or even on par with Shooting 20 years ago.

And this boils down to a few core problems.

Variability: the ability to mix up your combat to suit a situation or your personal preference.

Responsivity: the ability to do what you want, when you want.

Precision: the ability to actually control where you're aiming

Interactivity: the ability to actually engage with both the opponent and the environment around you.

An added problem is, variable perspective. Because a GOOD combat system for first person is going to be virtually unusable in 3rd, and vice versa. So you're inherently going to be making concessions in any approach where you've got both perspectives available.

The general focus, industry wide, is Style over Substance. Flashy moves, driven by Attack-Cycle animations, designed to look good but ultimately sacrificing basically everything for the sake of the rule of cool.

Even when you do try to address some of the failings, you end up with specific attack behaviours linked to specific weapons. Typically along the lines for Light and Heavy attacks, such as Dark Souls.

The problem then being... You're dictating how a weapon is used and stripping the player of the ability to define how they WANT to use it. Maybe I want to thrust with an Axe. Or swing my Spear around.

[formal anvil]

Guys, is there anyway to cancel the werewolf back to normal?
Or wait is the only way?

[timid drum]

Become a vampire
And if you don't wanna stay a vampire, get cured, thats the only way to remove the werewolf ability

[formal anvil]

No I mean not permanently but just

Transform back to loot etc

[timid drum]

Ohh yeah, just wait a few hours
If you're on pc, press t, dunno the other commands-

[formal anvil]

Dang, thanks btw

[timid drum]

Ofc

[nimble pond]

Furthermore, something besides gold coins as a currency would be intriguing. Say among those devoted to the arcane arts would be more interested in "souls" as a currency. And then there's the currency of gems, jewels, and the more rare, valuable materials among the more shadowy figures. Not to mention being able to actually trade with bandits and other typically "enemy" types could be interesting. Maybe even trading with lower intelligence creatures such as Trolls? It's kinda boring when the only thing you can really do with an "enemy" is kill them and being rushed by them as soon as they spot you.

[distant moss]

Imma start breeding trolls to be bigger and then ride them like it’s ark survival

[wide garnet]

Me: * unable to shake the feeling that this is a bad idea * … good luck.

[distant moss]

Imma work them like it’s palworld

[nimble pond]

That would be funny if we kept them in lil balls that house tiny realms of oblivion inside. Like collecting pokemon lol

[distant moss]

Mod idea? but no limits so i can send hoards of draugr

hold up if they improve magic system then necromancy would be baller

[austere oasis]

Raising Armies of the dead would be nice zombies or skeletons i hope skeletons are tough in es6 its funny how pathetic they are in Skyrim but they're more terrifying when they're tougher

[nimble pond]

Better yet. If we get our own kingdom or castle. We can just have our own army of undead. Undead civilization.

[pulsar root]

Lets revamp having our own house first, having our own castle and such might be a too much a step up for a random hero(Which I assume our role will be again, not knocking it though)

[timid drum]

You already have your own houses tho?-
And you can build some-

[pulsar root]

Yeah but from 2011. I want Bethesda to at least improve upon that instead of...well nothing.

[feral viper]

We can do the Settlement System form Fallout4/76/Starfield. Take it or leave it.

[timid drum]

^

[feral viper]

Somewhat ironically, I think said system was it's BEST in Fallout 4. And it's worst in Starfield.

It's just another resource generation platform now. What a great platform for playing with the idea of colonising new worlds, and instead it's just a way to pretty up Miners and make more money.

In a game where none of the merchants have enough cash to buy everything you're selling ANYWAY.

[timid drum]

pretty much ye

[feral viper]

If we were to see some variation of the Settlement System in TES6, they need to go back to basics. Ignore whatever the hell Starfield is, and look at Fallout 4.

Make it about the people who live there, the settlers and homesteaders, the resources and economies that support them, and make it more about its own self-contained activities rather than just another way to line the players already overflowing pockets.

[dim reef]

Have they said country elder scrolls 6 will be in yet?

[feral viper]

They have not. The general suspicion is Hammerfell, Highrock, or both.

But that's based on basically nothing.

[dim reef]

lol, ok thanks!

I was hoping it would be the entire world! All of them with what they have done in elder scrolls online! Just adding crazy quests and a heavy story for the whole continent.

[pulsar root]

Yeah I don't agree, I think improving the house system from Skyrim is fine. And we have no idea where ES will be placed.

I forgot I never said it. I sorry

[feral viper]

Oh, I tend to agree. I was being more facetious than anything.

I think some systems that have been put in place since Fallout 4 could be very useful in the traditional TES housing system. Just being able to place your own furniture, rather than buy pre-decorated rooms, would be a huge step forward.

[radiant moss]

I think some systems that have been put in place since Fallout 4 could be very useful in the traditional TES housing system.

I know the Daggerfall-era saying of "find a hill, found a kingdom" is no longer a thing in the Iliac Bay after the Warp in the West, but man it'd be cool to have a proper "found a city" system for ES6 if in that region, not even just customizing a house lol

Wishful thinking.

[idle chasm]

Probably take way too much effort in terms of asset creation

[livid ingot]

I don't think it's too farfetched. We had things like Ravenrock and Cropsford where the player helps build up a settlement.

No real customization in those cases, but the idea is plausible

[feral viper]

Yeah, I think the game worlds are just too small to really facilitate such a thing currently.

Unless they do something like Starfield with TES6... Which would be a terrible idea, IMO.

[nimble pond]

Again? Nothing new?

[feral viper]

Oh, probably some new window dressing.

[nimble pond]

I would have loved the ability to select a single planet and "colonize" it over the course of our play-thru. Terraforming. I would take just one of those as opposed to the making settlements all over many planets. The outposts were fine, kinda like making camps in the wilderness in TES.

[wide garnet]

Just one problem: who created the Terraforming technology you’re speaking of?

[nimble pond]

I guess that's an issue for the lore gods

[feral viper]

I mean... Humans have been terraforming for thousands of years.

It's called a shovel, and planting things.

[distant moss]

Realistically that random hero could just kill everyone in a castle and take it for themself

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-miz-disappointed-shakes-head-shaking-my-head-annoyed-gif-17860184

[nimble pond]

Yes, there are alot ways we could come to "inherit" an abandoned castle/kingdom or plot of land to build upon while still remaining as that mysterious player character with a vague identity.

[noble verge]

Men, elves, they're all low creational gradient races that don't know their place.

The only real difference is how the elves are unable to accept that they've hit subgradient bedrock just like everyone else.

[feral viper]

I was being facetious. I don't actually think the setting is salvageable enough to offer actual narrative input, or argue whether or not Men and Mer even are at bedrock.

The only comment if value to the setting I have anymore is that two Provinces is a bad idea. And that's less setting related, and more design related.

[primal olive]

no

[feral viper]

Elves are always better when partnered with Dragons.

Glares at Age of Sigmar judgementally

[pulsar root]

Mmmmmmm nah. Warhammer isn't for me.

[last dew]

Suggestion for TES6: Romancable companions voiced by Jennifer English, Laura Bailey, Neil Newborn, and Keith David.

[feral viper]

Saving the best for last, I see.

[feral viper]

That said, and I'm probably an outlier here...

I hate Romancable characters. Romance in video games is some of the tackiest, character annihilating slop in writing, and I have yet to find a single instance that actually felt anything like a worthwhile or healthy relationship.

Just stop it. Leave that to modders.

[feral viper]

While Starfield was especially egregious in this regard, with characters just being stripped of their identity as soon as you're in a relationship, they're hardly unique. BioWare's love interests are notoriously just pillow buddies after you've gotten them to commit, Baldur's Gate's partners are basically just codependent clingers, Persona's romances bring Anime Relationships into gamming... It's terrible.

And 9/10, the driving point of romance is simply 'Do this one mission for me and I'll love you forever'. Which is... Ugh.

Probably the best examples of romances in video games come from Life Sim games, like Harvest Moon and Stardew Valley. And those require literal months of work (in-game) and multiple story events, and don't involve totally compromising the characters identity and role in the world in the process.

Writing is so mediocre in video games as it is. Don't bring it down with terrible romances. Focus on some actual stories first, and when you've nailed that, maybe you can go back to the highschool fanfic dating.

[last dew]

What about Witcher 3?

[feral viper]

Mediocre, and even then only hold up because they're building on established relationships from the short stories and novels.

The previous stories actually do a lot of heavy lifting for the writing in The Witcher games in general. About the only decent ORIGINAL character is the Baron in Wild Hunt, everyone else is basically a recurring character from the prose.

Don't get me wrong, the Baron was one of the most engaging and tragic stories in the last decade or more of games... But 99% of characters in The Witcher are forgettable repeats of the same 3-4 archetypes.

[austere oasis]

The only Romance in gaming that I've actually liked was the Relationship between Artyom and Anna in the Metro series that's how romance should be written

[feral viper]

And even then, the actual relationships in The Witcher? Not really that good. The actual options you're presented with are incredibly toxic relationships prone to emotional and psychological abuse, with no actual redeeming qualities.

And then they just handwaved it away for the 'Happy Ending'.

[last dew]

It's a video game....

[feral viper]

Yeah. Though that's also a structured character with more traditional relationship storytelling.

I'm talking more on relationships with direct player agency.

[feral viper]

Yes, and I don't think that should be an excuse for bad writing.

It HAS been, but it shouldn't be.

[last dew]

I would love for you to write the romance story in TES6 yourself. Not saying this in a dismissive way, I actually encourage you to do it, because I welcome someone who can make better writing than what we got today.

[austere oasis]

Serana could have been something special as a romance but she's also not an original idea i forget which media they took a lot of inspiration for her character

There's a few characters in Skyrim that have a lot of depth before being romanced like Mjoll I agree about your earlier statement about romance companions being reduced to just loveless npcs

[feral viper]

I tend to think quite lowly of my own writing, but even then I'm pretty confident I could do better than we've gotten for TES in 20 years. For anything.

But that's only part of the problem. Romance is a long process to explore naturally and in a healthy way. And video games typically have to be economically brief with their narrative structures for the sake of development time.

Even the BEST writing is going to have to make concessions, that's just a reality of the format.

But with something like Romance, those concessions create baggage that is A: unneeded, and B: can be actively unhealthy

Unrelated... Fallen Haven... Haven't heard this soundtrack in ages...

[last dew]

I just want to have companions that are likeable and compelling and well written.

[feral viper]

So would I. But they don't need to be a romance option to be likable.

[austere oasis]

What game is this from i don't recognize the track name

[feral viper]

The game is Fallen Haven. It was a turn-based SciFi strategy game from the late 90s

I just have a for-you mix playing whole I'm sitting here on discord, and painting some High Elf Archers.

[austere oasis]

I always use a mod to put it in the main Track but Unbroken Road from Skyrim only plays once and usually you miss it the songs too good to only play once in the entire game

[feral viper]

Yeah. In general I think the whole way we approach music in games needs to change... But that's a WHOLE other barrel of eels.

As far as romance goes, way way back in yesteryear, there was a discussion about it on the Forums. That's where I first changed my mind about whether or not characters should have set sexualities... But it also led me down a road of trying to figure out how to make Romance better.

And after basically designing an entire new reputation model, half a dozen activities, and a whole bunch of specific standards and thresholds, I realised that the amount of work required to make Romance anything but a tacked on token isn't worth it.

Not when there's so many other far more pressing things to address

ESO, right?

But it's an ESO related question, yeah? Not a Single Player TES one?

I mean, specifically for Elder Scrolls Online.

This Discord is for the strictly Single Player games made by Bethesda Game Studios, and doesn't include ESO. So you'd probably have better luck here:

[sweet comet]

Now I'm writing in the Skyrim chat because I think I wrote this wrong here

[feral viper]

Alright, no worries. Best of luck.

[feral viper]

Somewhat case and point...

One of the best companion characters in all of gaming?

Arbiter.

Can't romance. He's just a bro. A grumpy, judgemental, bro of necessity. But still a bro.

[last dew]

I don't want all companions to be romanceable. Just a select few.

[feral viper]

If you pick and choose, you end up with problems like Skyrim where there's no Romancable Khajiit. And then people get up in arms.

When it's basically All of Nothing, sometimes Nothing is the better option.

[austere oasis]

There's only one romanceable female argonian...

[feral viper]

Which clearly shows the Scaly agenda in action. Justice for the Furries!

[austere oasis]

There aren't many Khajiit outside the caravans although I guess what's his name from the college should have been romanceable but I don't recall any female Khajiits outside the caravans

At the least there should be two for every race romanceable

[feral viper]

Which is 20 Romancable characters.

You start seeing the problem

That would be more romance options than most games have companions.

[austere oasis]

Skyrim has more romance options than companions