fallout-tv-series

[torpid ermine]

A country, imo.

[plucky juniper]

Just minutemen 2.0

[torpid ermine]

Honestly I'm not even a fan of getting rid of the Enclave either tbh

[plucky juniper]

The enclave waged a war against everyone and got wiped oiut by both ncr and bos throughout long battles

[torpid ermine]

Like they should be clapped and reduced in size but they should be around pulling strings and stuff, contesting the BOS

[torpid ermine]

||I'm thinking they ran off to the central US and Colorado to vault 0||

[plucky juniper]

They are the opposite of the institute and yet share the same goal : wiping out radiation with "pure", but when Father looks upon the commonwealth, he realizes that the world is beyond saving, and the future take splace underground

[still wagon]

i loved the series. although BOS do be looking like whimps

[plucky juniper]

The Enclave realized that and decided to go on genocide mode

[plucky juniper]

They are scattered, most of them moved on, no point in taking over, they have no hierarchy

[torpid ermine]

I've never liked the BOS outside of the DC chapter

[plucky juniper]

Maxson pragmatism prooved useful against the institute

[still wagon]

i could see them doing many diff spinoff series. like the ghoul, minutemen, brotherhood of steel and new Cali Republic

[plucky juniper]

Yeah we want liberty prime shipped on LA for season 2

[torpid ermine]

I liked the institute

Liberty prime BOS vs the NCR vs the Minutemen would be crazy

[plucky juniper]

It's very tough to mysticism the NCR, these guys are everywhere, everyone knows them, everyone knew them. Unlike BoS and Enclave, tahts why I think they should have reversed it

[torpid ermine]

What's the likelihood we see the great khans in the 2nd season?

[plucky juniper]

Maximus being a ncr rookie hunting down some BoS scholar

[plucky juniper]

Poor basterd I dont give my two cent on their survival 1 year after new vegas

[torpid ermine]

They went north of Nevada right?

I really hope they come back, they were cool and better than the LOSER legion

[lofty prairie]

So the BoS is Captain America and The Ghoul is Red Skull

[torpid ermine]

Not even lol

[plucky juniper]

Not sure toddy wants to infrige upon new vegas much

If we bring the khans, just go ahead and bring the mojave, and everything in, and canonize whoever won the battle

[torpid ermine]

Could have been the wildcard ending

[plucky juniper]

Or House

[torpid ermine]

Have you finished the show?

[plucky juniper]

No im on episode 8

[torpid ermine]

Finish it and then watch the end credits

[plucky juniper]

Was kinda shocked when I saw the episode 7 ending ngl

||Then i looked upon the wiki on whoever built shady sands and who was he, and kinda go t it, children of atom level of belief||

[torpid ermine]

||Seems like all of the Yes Men Securitons are broken||

[plucky juniper]

What I want for the TV show is to bridge the gap between fallout 4 and the next one

Yes you would "have" to watch the show to understand everything going on in fallout 5 but if you like the universe, its worth a shot

[foggy fulcrum]

That’s pretty much what it’s doing, not exactly on the events related to Fallout 4 but it’s definitely after.

[paper plume]

Visiting family in California and can’t help think of the NCR flag wherever I see the California flag. Thanks Todd

[hearty marlin]

bro i might have a crush on lucy

[waxen silo]

She has both survival skills and fertility.

[tardy shoal]

you guys are creeps

also she got stabbed in the womb so idk about that last part

[waxen silo]

She's the one that say she's fertile in the start of the show.

[lofty prairie]

||I bet raider husband got her pregnant||

[split trout]

||Perhaps Radiation Surface made him sterile||

[red forge]

||My belief is that she won't be.||

[split trout]

||also she got stabbed near her kidney||

||so she still can have Kids, if she want to|| But this is a delicate thing. ||Also see Surface radiation affection on her, too|| so the last words is on the Writers

[lofty prairie]

||So surfies made it 200 years without breeding? 🤔||

[wispy sapphire]

||I think Lucy should be more worried about some sort of STD instead of being pregnant||

[sudden hornet]

||I think a possible pregnancy is a cheap narrative that has been used countless times on other shows. I hope it doesn't come up, really.||

[lofty prairie]

But writers usually fumble with girl leads so I expect it lol

They can't resist the tropes for long

[sudden hornet]

I really liked the first season, even with the "dates" problem. I reeeeally hope they don't go the easy way like that, LOL

[waxen silo]

dates are always kind of fungible in games.

[lofty prairie]

They're killing it right now. New stuff isn't crazy. Lots of mystery. Lots of stuff was done right. Few goofs with the PA and a chalkboard

[rotund dove]

soon it all be set to right when bearbullman DESTROYS toddy boy's fanfiction

[sudden hornet]

"Bearbullman" got a genuine laugh out of me

[lofty prairie]

Who is that

[sudden hornet]

Ulysses, I presume

[rotund dove]

more of the writer behind him, Chris Avellone

[sudden hornet]

Oh, I saw the tweet

[rotund dove]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-and-spicy-spicy-food-gif-26188990

[sudden hornet]

Pretty bold of Beth/Amazon to set the show in the West Coast. They left it alone for a looong time. Some criticism was inevitable, I suppose

[foggy fulcrum]

Glad they did tbh, people acting like they ain’t allowed to do anything over there.

[tough snow]

kind of curious about the early enclave scene|| why when the scientist walks in on the dogmeat and the 'good scientist' does he go to ring the alarm? is it something to with dogmeat or? surely after he lied about the dogs weight thats it he/she is safe now so why the chaos happen?||

[foggy fulcrum]

I’m a firm believer in stories should be allowed to be written on both coasts. Not just one because some people get uppity that it wasn’t a specific group of people.

I will say though I think it was inevitable whether it was Beth or not. Fallout Fans are the equivalent of Star Wars Fans as I always say.

[red forge]

I think it's because ||he's not meant to keep any as a pet.||

[tough snow]

that would make sense just always confused me haha

[lofty prairie]

Okey dokey Time to rewatch fallout

[gray beacon]

|| I just got to episode 2 and when Maximus stops the farmer from killing that guy I did not expect that to be why he was about to kill him ||

[torpid ermine]

It's super out of character for fallout imo, that was just weird

[red forge]

I took it as ||he was just trying to do what he felt was the right thing... not knowing that the life he just saved is a con artist.||

[torpid ermine]

Is he though?
||Maybe more akin to a snake oil salesman lol, gives you results but not what you necessarily wanted||

[red forge]

Much for muchness. ||Con artist. Scammer. Fraudster. Charlatan... it's all in the same realm.||

[zealous surge]

Did they start filming for season2?

[red forge]

I'd say preproduction.

[paper plume]

The reason why they set games on the East Coast is actually pretty simple. Being just outside Washington DC made it super convenient to research the area. Same with Boston, it's a little further out but it wouldn't require a cross country trip. I like that Bethesda's Fallout games are set far away from the originals and Obsidian's. Let those guys build out their canon on the West Coast and Bethesda can make theirs to the East, due to the way Fallout works, they don't interfere with each other.

I'm kind of surprised that they did do the West Coast and how at the end ||they referenced New Vegas||. So they're going to connect the show more to ||Obsidian's canon|| and quite possibly leave their own canon alone... unless the Brotherhood for some reason takes the characters on their airship somewhere. The Prydwen flew from DC to Boston, so they can go a little ways, but we're not sure what their max range is. They might decide this one is actually the Prydwen and that's how it got to DC in the first place.

[novel plank]

||The dogs are for mind-control studies (I believe they are testing how to control super mutants, based on the body on the gurney). Wilzig is not supposed to have one, and seems to be using the dog to generate the off-the-grid power he needs to produce the Cold Fusion in secret, hence why the other scientist freaks on him over the lab and the dog. He flees before he is totally ready due to the incident.||

[split trout]

I do not think so, i bet first they need to write the "cooking Book" for Season 2. Aka Pre Production

[red forge]

Yeah it'd be wasted effort and money to film until the next season was greenlit.

[raven wolf]

They should probably make a game over there sometime

[foggy fulcrum]

I’d like that.

Still need to get back and play the NV And 4 DLC

[iron vector]

The dog wasn't a problem.

Cold fusion, and specifically the catalyst missing from the reactor was. I'm trying to get a friend to verify exactly what's being said in the scene.

[novel plank]

||He puts a lot of effort into hiding the dog if it's not a problem, and the core issue was the cold fusion.||

[gray beacon]

Is power armor supposed to be as strong as it is in the show

[iron vector]

He literally ||takes CX404 for himself in front of other behavioral engineering people, from a security guard, carries him to his office through a security checkpoint and practices with the dog in his own office in broad daylight.||

[sterile torrent]

please mark your spoilers

[novel plank]

||I don't think the issue is him having the dog around the labs while in an official capacity, especially since there are dogs everywhere around the base - I think he's not supposed to have kept it with him in the way that he was and away from the 'brain collar' experiments. The other scientist gets angry with him when he sees 404 being harbored inside the wall.||

[iron vector]

I rewatched that scene so many times, he was pointing to the ||cold fusion reactor||.

[paper plume]

In what? In Fallout 4, power armor is kind of weak, the pieces break after a few shots. Without any pieces you just have a frame, and that alone provides radiation resistance and carry weight, so all in all it's worth it.

The only real strong power armor was the set you got from Operation: Anchorage in Fallout 3, due to a bug that made it unbreakable. It's possible (and kinda easy) to do OA straight out of 101, so you could get it really early. The DLC wasn't difficult at all.

[runic steppe]

With how it looks, the airship doesn't seem to have a "standard" design and it really, really resembles the prydwen, imo it probably is the prydwen

[novel plank]

It literally says Prydwen on the side in the show. :P

[runic steppe]

Lol I didn't even notice

[novel plank]

It's very brief, but visible twice in the first episode.

[runic steppe]

Either that or I need a better tv

[lofty prairie]

bro can anyone help me i feel annoying but ive been trying to fix this for weeks but when i turn off check marks launch the game full screen dosent work and when i relaunch the launcher the checkmarks appear again idk what to do

[lofty prairie]

Were there other ||tiny robobrain bots like in 31?||

Maybe in the games 🤔

[lusty lark]

Nope. It's a first time. Which I honestly found both hilarious and cute all at once 😂

[torpid ermine]

They didn't need a big robobrain in there tbh

[lofty prairie]

just finished the show

gunna have to replay new vegas now

[split trout]

No. ||This kind of Robobrain is TV Serie unique|| It reminds me from my childhood time of ||https://future.fandom.com/de/wiki/Simon_Wright?file=SimonWright640.jpg Professor Simon Wright||

[feral bolt]

So question are the purpose of the vault experiments still to make a generational space ship

[paper plume]

I couldn't see it at all. Do you have a screenshot, or a timestamp?

[novel plank]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/4j9OsD4HMJbdzydSqzPekbCOzS7UMFaUUOf1GFALcms/%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dlarge/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/GLS70NXWQAEYvOR

[torpid ermine]

Honestly I don't think so, I think vault tec lost the plot along the way

[foggy fulcrum]

Honestly I always saw that as the lie they sold

[iron vector]

If the Enclave got surprised by the nukes, VT would be especially.

[torpid ermine]

My point exactly

||BTW, isn't it kinda weird how the BOS was there immediately after Shady Sands was destroyed?||

[split trout]

Hmmm i wonder, do the Enclave have some own Music Theme? 🙂

[iron vector]

Yup. In the middle of a war. That's why I believe they're involved.

[split trout]

aww. I could not resist and made my own Fan Mashup with Music. But i gave their credits. i am sorry 🙂

[paper plume]

Weird, I thought I saw something in that spot, but I couldn't make it out.

[torpid ermine]

||Speaking of the BOS, considering we see the Prydwen in the show, but not them having same advancements and etc as the institute, I think it's fair to say it was the Minutemen ending, or somehow they were able to move/rebuild it?||

[fierce sleet]

Fallout NCR vs Brotherhood of Steel scene but its dance music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqU2UrbFAVM

[left kestrel]

https://youtu.be/TR0GEK-l8Xw?si=v2k8IHqS_0GUrkVk

[zinc river]

Is dogmeat in The show , The same dogmeat in fallout 4 ?

[lofty prairie]

No, it's just a nickname for all wasteland dogs

Probably

[torpid ermine]

Not dogmeat, it's CX

[stoic roost]

Just finished ep 3, shows cool.. I'd expect to finish by next week

[torpid ermine]

Wait, ||so the show tries to say that ghouls now have to take medicine to prevent themselves from becoming feral? Is it like an age or by-basis factor? Hm.||

[lofty prairie]

I think it's a ||radiation exposure thing, which is why many believe his vial to be radaway of some sort||

[torpid ermine]

Idk how I feel about adding it tbh

[lofty prairie]

Need more episodes lol right now it's an interest, not good or bad

I'm more alerted by the T60 changes and the ||mystery injection Thaddeus got, FEV maybe?||

[foggy fulcrum]

||It’s likely a new drug for Ghouls to help stave off going feral.||

[torpid ermine]

Which t60 changes?

||And Thad probably got some radioactive stuff, likely going to become an abomination||

[lofty prairie]

I could work with that! And the T60 having ||helmet lid open, jetpack arms, single bullet killing spot in the front. We already have an exposed fusion core in the back 🤣||

Oh and ||zero movement without fusion core, can't exit either||

[foggy fulcrum]

||I always thought that was weird… in the games if you don’t have a charged core inserted you just end up walking slowly.||

[lofty prairie]

I get giving the show some creative liberties to create drama but some of these are drastic changes for the T60

It doesn't lessen my experience or opinion of the show though. I'm fully invested! I love it!

[foggy fulcrum]

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if the visor was something the Brotherhood Implemented, because removing your Helmet is asking to be an easy shot from anyone not in your field of vision.

[foggy fulcrum]

Never forget Maxson 2’s death

[lofty prairie]

Yeah I can work with something like that but the arms? Ehhhh lol

[foggy fulcrum]

Trust me I thought it was strange to.

[torpid ermine]

||I liked the helmet lid addition tbh, the jet pack arms and stuff I get though, but it could be modified specifically for that knight

Most of these are plot devices rather than any lore rebuttal tbh

The tempered lining is a good thing to point out as well for the vulnerability, he also used a different round for that too

As for the no movement, it's likely that Maximus didn't know wtf he was doing haha, in FO4 the main character was a vet with power armor training||

Institute tech inclusion for the arms?
Pretty unlikely tho

[lofty prairie]

I can work with something but so far we have nothing 😅

[silent summit]

|| if coop always knew about the T-60 design flaw, or at least knew it as a possibility, why did he never try it on Maximus during their fight? ||

[lofty prairie]

I think ||he noticed that Maximus wasn't an actual threat. He recognized and mentioned how poorly he operates the Power Armor. Probably showing mercy on a young soldier trying to do good, being a veteran himself.|| Or
||Was entertained and didn't want to spoil the fun?||

[silent summit]

Fair enough

[lofty prairie]

Or both?

[silent summit]

After all || Maximus decided to throw coop rather than just step on him when he had the chance ||

[lofty prairie]

Facts

And remember, ||Maximus is fresh off from saving the chicken molesters life lol he probably wanted to save the day but not jump to conclusions and kill the wrong person, also he hadn't killed anyone at this point||

[silent summit]

People always underestimate just jumping on someone during a fight, it’s a high risk high reward thing

You land it well, they are out possibly even dead, you miss, you’re open af

[silent summit]

True

|| Anyone else have a bit of a sour taste with the brotherhood having a bit of a religious vibe? ||

|| particularly when they are doing that Orthodox Church (at least prominent in that church) swinging torch thing ||

[lofty prairie]

I was tolerating it until ||the robed BoS guys waving their magic sticks at Maximus and cursing him in mumbles||

[silent summit]

Yeah that’s just weird

[lofty prairie]

Happens when he turns in the ||head||

[silent summit]

I always preferred the “army with a state” approach for the BoS than the knightly order

[lofty prairie]

Was a huge WTF lol

[silent summit]

|| I guess they wanted to tap into the 40k fans or smt ||

[lofty prairie]

Absolutely! They were my|| justice and order to the wasteland! Now just a bunch of techno nerd wackadoodles||

[silent summit]

Although I did really like their version of squires

[lofty prairie]

Backpack is kinda ridiculous lol the PA could carry that so easily. It's even PA sized!

[silent summit]

Made good sense, have support staff for singular knights, increases their effectiveness and reduces manpower costs

[silent summit]

Yeah why is there only 1 strap? Really should be more of a backpack than a duffle bag

[lofty prairie]

Either way it's clearly designed for the PA but the knights make the squires carry it lol it's ridiculous but believable I guess

[silent summit]

The knights could at least carry one of the weapons at all times

I understand being free with your hands but c’mon

Also, || totally possible he just was panicking and didn’t think of it, but why didn’t Titus use the jet wrists against the bear? ||

[lofty prairie]

I suspect it was ||his first mission as Knight. I theorize that most Knights are squires impersonating their Knights. It adds to the legacy of the Knights as a whole and inspires||

[silent summit]

Not a bad idea

Would make some sense with || how so many knights died in the last episode ||

[lofty prairie]

Certainly explains ||the panicking and him sending Maximus to check out the cave||

[silent summit]

|| like I get coop killing a good amount, but how are so many dying outside the building? ||

|| also I am kinda wondering why they didn’t open fire on coop immediately on seeing, maybe it would’ve been better for him to talk over a intercom, and after shooting one from a hidden position he purposely hits the power to ambush the knights ||

[lofty prairie]

Horrible attack strategy? They went for the Leroy Jenkins approach.

Doesn't make sense as a militaristic group but that's what happened

[lofty prairie]

Classic TV stuff. Mysterious figure might give vital information so let's hear him out.

||They didn't know exactly where the leader Moldaver was or where the artifact was so they probably listened in case it was relevant to those?||

[foggy fulcrum]

||More like he was Clearly the type of guy to never work hard and just joined for the sole purpose of being in a position of power.||

[lofty prairie]

Probable, but my idea sounds cooler lol

[foggy fulcrum]

Like I wouldn’t be surprised if he did the bare minimum required.

[lofty prairie]

Just like the real military 😆

Very believable

Not sarcasm, am retired military and I meant that

[errant crow]

Well, Fallout 1's original BoS had some level of quasi-religious overtones actually. As if they are a sort of technocratic knightly order actually. However, it was "quasi-religious" not like BoS invented some actual religion of their own.

[split trout]

Perhaps ||Maximus did not know the Emergency Switch to Manual Override the Exit procedure. Well, he learned all by himself how to operate this Armor. Not from the Manual Book, like the Vault dwellers|| But yes, could also be because of Drama

Perhaps he need some sort of Konami code or how in Teslas you can open the Doors without Battery Power

[lofty prairie]

This canon now

[errant crow]

Actually, TV shows BoS ranks and internal structure are.. a bit weird. In West Coast's BoS knights were ... mostly technicians. Palading were BoS dedicated militant personnel. In East Cost BoS knight was a rank in BoS "militant part" but it wasn't a very high of a rank.

[errant crow]

It could be exactly that actually thumbs up for logically sound suggestion

[waxen silo]

Exactly, They were the same in Fallout 3 too. They were always quasi-religious.

[lofty prairie]

I like this and hope it's true. Maybe the religious stuff is farcical and only serves to indoctrinate wastelander recruits

[foggy fulcrum]

I mean it should be very Obvious the West Coast has more religious aspects to them in comparison to the East Coast Brotherhood. Which I think was the entire point.

[split trout]

[Suggestion]

i read some Gaming site news about the Series and Cooper's ||Cloths under his Trench coat. My Idea, is that perhaps these Cloths (200 Years old+) is somehow glued with his Skin, because of the A-Bomb heat. You know, there is also some RL Victims with heavy Burns with that. But then the Question raise up what happen to his Daughter at that time. Well, the same scenery could happen like the "Old Comicbooks" Bruce Banner become Hulk when he threw some person in an trench. He got the full dosis. But like the Actor Pro he is and with enough Adrenalin, he continued to play "All good dear, Daddy just got some Sunburns!" and well the rest is Fiction|| Possible scene for that is when Cooper ||have some Nightmare Flashback that his Subconsciousness suppressed so far. But somehow Lucy ignited a Memory Spark of his Daughter at that Moment, to display for us Watchers how this all happened|| Lucy watching over him at this scene at the camp, but are afraid to interfere. ||Nearly the same Vibes as Lucy made first time Campfire on the Surface and the Scientist found her and gave his advice||. Also the Medicine he is taken ||is not only for stable fix his Humanity, but also as Medicine for his "burned Lungs"|| but this part is really just guessing. So peace!! 🙂

p.s. If this was some trick to save Costume Budget, then perhaps this idea here made this plausible to explain

[earnest flame]

I more so want to know if his daughter died from the blast or she became a kid ghoul and died overtime

[torpid ermine]

It was always kinda around, especially in the first few games

[vocal spire]

The tv show brought all the “ahckually” neckbeards out

[lofty prairie]

How old is Maximus? Not the actor, the character? It's not said in the show, but your thoughts

[lofty prairie]

As new content always does lol

You too for my question, anyone

[shadow sedge]

I hate it when neck beardstry to cause a fallout between fans.

[lofty prairie]

If I had to guess I'd say he rivals Lucy as early 20s. I don't think his age is mentioned specifically I'm just guesstimating

[foggy fulcrum]

Ha! Fallout Between Fans! Lol

[digital copper]

The religious stuff has been a part of BOS lore since the first game they just never stopped focusing on it until now lol. Lemme dig up the holotape they give you when you ask about their history, which they explicitly describe as one of their best surviving records of their founding…

The Exodus from the accursed base was a trying time for the men and their families. While there was no radioactive fallout to contend with, they were frequently beset by the fallout of humanity. Roving bands of psychotic marauders attempted several attacks on that noble group.

The company itself was in no danger, for they wore the Armor of Power. Members of their families were not so lucky. Once the vermin found out they were easily repelled, they began to fire on the unarmed civilians from a distance.

They took a great many casualties, yet for every member of the Exodus that was struck down in this way, our noble brethren took two lives from the wasteland.

Finally, the forefathers came to the safety of the bunker. Capt. Maxson, the great deliverer, decreed this to be our new home, and all was well.

In the fullness of time the bunker became our home, our temple and our salvation from the terrors of the outside world. We began to build and shape our fortress into something glorious, the beauty of which the technologically bereft world had never seen before.

Yet there were those who sought still more. These restless souls demanded we look to the southeast for the advanced technology that was supposedly housed there.

Capt. Maxson warned these impetuous youths that the research facility was doubtlessly destroyed when we were spared, but they would not hear his words. They took their sanctified armor and headed off to find their Holy Grail, but not before they spoke the Deliverer's name in vain, questioning his very bravery!

These men were never heard from again.

[lofty prairie]

That's classy, ||unlike the robed cursing and stick waving I saw in the last episode. That's a whole 'nother level of religious lol||

[digital copper]

The conversation where you get that tape has the scribe you’re talking to bemoan that there’s little interest in historical education among the brotherhood, noting that many of their youth don’t even know Captain Maxson’s name, just his title of “the Deliverer” 😂

[lofty prairie]

Titles, formality, advanced vocabulary, and structure are very militaristic. I see the tilt to religiousness though.

Not the same as what I saw in the show by far lol

It may be normal and I just missed all the signs that it's normal lol

https://c.tenor.com/0kerfpKOgeMAAAAC/tenor.gif

[digital copper]

Oh for sure. The first game had a vibe of them worshipping their founder as a prophet and their mission as one of divine importance (famously, their head scribe describes the brotherhood as “the only hope of salvation this tortured planet has” or somesuch) but later games almost entirely ignored it outside of incidental dialogue

It’s a return to form but admittedly a bit of a jarring one

[foggy fulcrum]

Which I wanna point out the East Coast Chapter has moved away a lot from the Religious aspect. Which is the point that is being made that one side of the Brotherhood is changing with the times, the other won’t.

[digital copper]

Ehh, New Vegas also largely ditched it outside the whole “deeply obsessed with the exact letter of the codex’s law” thing, and that was a chapter of the Western Brotherhood

[lofty prairie]

Now that I can respect!

[lofty prairie]

Oh that's good lore there which game expands that more?

[foggy fulcrum]

It’s ultimately dependent on who’s in charge but I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain chapter has more religious aspects to it. Those crazy Elders weren’t there to influence the Mojave Chap besides giving orders.

[lofty prairie]

Followed rules word for word is what I expect from them, not the religiousness. But if that's how they were originally and especially if there's a divide within BoS about it, i'm interested!

[digital copper]

Lyons’ Brotherhood ironically had more of that religiosity than the Mojave Chapter what with its knights invoking phrases like “Steel be with you” and characters like… Colvin, IIRC? Who are very explicitly religious (Paladin Cross also has an aspect of it in some of her dialogue, IIRC)

Lyons was also supposed to do a meal blessing every evening for the chapter’s highest ranked figures at their little round table in the Pentagon, but the script package is bugged and never plays

[lofty prairie]

Still feels lightweight compared to ||the robed men mumble cursing and ugly stick waving lol|| but it is something!

[foggy fulcrum]

Tbf he still came from the West so it wasn’t gonna be an immediate change, but add in the fact they were recruiting local wastelanders and Arthur ultimately learning from two different types of ideologies and the change was gonna happen regardless.

[digital copper]

Mhm

[lofty prairie]

At what point did they start taking in wastelanders?

[digital copper]

Well they allowed it as a policy for a long time but stopped a few decades before the start of FO1, IIRC

They did allow outsiders to join but only under special circumstances, like the protagonist bringing back a relic of the lost expedition to the Glow

FO3 saw them recruiting outsiders fairly openly; I don't recall if it's ever actually cited in-game as one of the ways Lyons was breaking off from the western traditions or if it's just something fans complained about :P

The western chapter we see in NV was also pretty hard on the "no outsiders except in special circumstances" thing

[lofty prairie]

That's in line with the Knight-errant situation in 76.

Weird how some Elders run their chapters so differently. I expected there to be more uniformity

[foggy fulcrum]

Safe to say if the Experiences of what he saw in The Pitt did not change Lyons worldview on things, the East Coast Chapter would have ended up the same.

[tardy shoal]

anyone else hoping for some aliens in S2?

[foggy fulcrum]

Nah I doubt it, leave the Zetan’s as side content for the games

[digital copper]

Zetans are best as a wacky quirky side thing bordering on an easter egg with no substantial relevance to the overall story and setting IMO

I love the idea of aliens interfering in and visiting a post-apoclayptic Earth but making them a focus of any kind in a major story is a mistake IMO

[sick ivy]

All I know is that Lucy says “Okey Dokey” a lot

[tardy shoal]

fair enough, even if they were only like a small C-story it would be neat to see them. But at the same time if you're gonna talk about aliens, you almost cant have them be a small part.

[novel plank]

It is stated - the Outcasts are the ones upholding thr original mission and methods. Part of the reason the BoS seems more hardlined in 4 is because the outcasts were reintegrated.

[digital copper]

Yeah I'm aware of that I'm a turbonerd who knows the stories of the games inside and out lol

What I'm not certain of is whether the Outcasts or anyone inside Lyons' ranks cites him recruiting outsiders as a specific grievance or not; my recollection is their main grievance being his charity and decision to focus on fighting the Super Mutants

Been a while since I played or perused the dialogue lol

[novel plank]

It's stated and implied both by factions of Brotherhood.

[true ocean]

Whats the topic in here today?

[lofty prairie]

I have a topic: There are entirely too many flashbacks.

We see ||maximus exit the refrigerator at least 5 times|| and ||Lucy's mama no less than 4|| it's a lot for 8 episodes

Exact same flashbacks just a little shorter or longer.

What the heck

[teal tusk]

Supposed to make you feel for the character. But for Lucy, feels like a missing memory til the end

[lofty prairie]

It doesn't work me, it's aggravating lol

[teal tusk]

I just zoned out of the fourth one

But it fit well when ||Maximus was questioning the knight after threatening him with execution||

[lofty prairie]

It works if he's explaining his past and maybe in a special moment so we know what he's thinking about but they got carried away I think

[split trout]

and many liked it, that way

[silent summit]

I guess it’s to imply how deep seeded those memories are, that similar to how often we are seeing, they are often thinking about them

[lofty prairie]

But two characters having repeating flashbacks across 8 episodes? Lol it's a bit much

[jovial stone]

what was the name of the vault maxumius was in relaxing i cant find its name any where

[lofty prairie]

That's a spoiler and ||Vault 4||

Mark spoilers with || before and after please

[vocal spire]

How tf are things still spoilers

Show been out for hella long 😂

[fierce sleet]

Fallout battle scene but its alt country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUHpt83slM

[lofty prairie]

Probably be spoilers forever

[waxen silo]

its only been like 2 weeks

[remote vessel]

I still have friends who haven’t even finished the show, shows still in its launch phase as far as I’m concerned

[keen flume]

Lmao I had no idea how to post spoilers so I appreciate someone finally saying how.

[foggy fulcrum]

It’s still great to see many new fans coming into the series

[keen flume]

||Just testing. Don’t mind me||

It works!!! Awesome!!

[torpid ermine]

||So yeah, uh, I'm pretty sure he got infected with FEV and is becoming an abomination, im playing fallout 1 and I'm seeing some stuff that kinda describes how he was affected||

[keen flume]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/398247679790525/?mibextid=6yaNxA

[terse sierra]

||Maximus’ Constant flashbacks kinda reminds me of how i used to have flashbacks, when i was a kid, due to PTSD like symptoms due to how i almost drowned when i was 6 or 7, and then we have to consider something major, Radiation Caused Memory issues, which means sufferers can forget things easily, if not thinking about them often||

[terse sierra]

The trailer for the show showed pretty much 25% of the show’s big twists

[terse sierra]

||Vault 4||

[terse sierra]

F76 and F4 and FNV all reached their peak player numbers on Steam due to the show, that is millions of people, for context, more people played Fallout at once, then there are people in sweden

F76 had a million Players active at one point iirc, that is more then WoW got when MoP came out

So yeah, this show was like if someone took a bottle of buffout and forced it down Fallout’s throat

[waxen silo]

Todd Howard said 5 Million Fallout players across all the games.

[terse sierra]

That is actually a low ball, as that was Players who had their accounts set to online mode

[waxen silo]

idk, 5 million seems about right.

[terse sierra]

You can actually opt out of being seen by game studios when playing their games on steam

[waxen silo]

sure, but thats probably a fraction of steam players.

most probably dont even know you can do this.

[terse sierra]

It is a common feature, that many use

[waxen silo]

anyway, that really doesnt matter. People are watching and Playing the games.

So thats real good.

[terse sierra]

Yeah, too many, considering the nexus crashed

It took me Two hours to download a mod that would usualy take me twenty minutes to download

[waxen silo]

The only fallout games i havent played again this last few weeks was 1 and 2.

[terse sierra]

Honestly, I have lost count on how many times i have seen Mantis start up Fallout 1 since the show came out

[waxen silo]

Is that a streamer?

[terse sierra]

Yeah, TKMantis

It is crazy how the show has made everyone start playing the old games, even people who prefer the newer ones

Though it is kinda odd how i have seen more people play Brotherhood of Steel then Tactics

Especialy considering that Maximus is named after Maximus from Tactics

At least it is probably the case, regardless though, i look forwards to Season 2

[waxen silo]

i dont even know where to get BoS

[terse sierra]

I have seen it once in a store like three years ago

Retro game stores are starting to stock Playstation 1 and Playstation 2 games now

Anyway, So far Hank is my favorite character besides Norm obviously

Ngl, I’d be ticked off if Norm dies in Season 2

Since i kinda relate to his whole being a coward thing

Anyway, Goodsprings is gonna be crazy this year when Fallout day happens there later this year

Which reminds me, they better get the guy who inspired easy Pete to play Easy Pete if we see Goodsprings in Season 2

[waxen silo]

oh, nice, I didnt know about this place.

[terse sierra]

Anyway, so far the show is a solid 7,8/10 in my opinion

[waxen silo]

oh, and the first vid I saw was this TK Mantis guy.

[terse sierra]

He is a bit of a bitter mouthed guy, but he does speak his mind, and speaking One’s mind is good

Anyway, Season 2 is gonna be lit

[lofty prairie]

When would you guys estimate the release of season 2???

[terse sierra]

They are already working on Season 2, so at the earliest late this year

[waxen silo]

I'd say Probably not til 2026.

most places are saying late-late 2025 or early 2026.

[rose lynx]

one thing i really liked was the music its kickass

it wasnt overly orchestral loud bombastic like awful lot of shows

[red forge]

Late next year at earliest, but more likely 2026. They wouldn't have been able to begin any filming until it was greenlit. They'd be in preproduction.

[broken helm]

Who?

[severe jetty]

The bombs dropped was probably the best moment personally

[hasty stone]

Anyone else think about how much fusion core energy is being wasted in the tv show with maximus just chilling in the armor?

[bold pendant]

Fusion cores last for centuries. Only lasts so little in 4 and 76 for gameplay reasons

[hasty stone]

yeah i was sorta thinking along the lines of fallout 4, always out of juice

[frail cloud]

Powur aermur

[fierce sleet]

Fallout battle scene but its alternative country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUHpt83slM

[visual night]

At the actual Goodsprings theres a guy named Gordy. Hes a regular at the saloon

[broken helm]

Huh

Kinda cool

[lofty prairie]

What does everyone think of Arroyo tribe appearing in season 2

[split trout]

Say how many version of Music you want to post here with the same Scene? It became slowly like spam

[split trout]

Perhaps he knows the Secret Konami Code to fix this problem and turn this Power Core into his Energy Green Eco Mode 🙂

Perhaps they done this on purpose so they can sell as many Power Cores with 100% Power Output in PA's Mode Standard Mode, so the Military are depending on new ones. Where only 2% would be enough to keep him moving

Also i think in FO76 you can still move with empty Power Core your PA, just not running and other stuff. my first PA i found was with 0% Power Core, but i could move and Fast Travel back home

[torpid ermine]

I was moreso hoping the Great Khans tbh

[zealous surge]

Is it just me or the PA is slightly bigger than F76 and F4 PA?

[torpid ermine]

Probably just an extra few inches on all sides for the screen but not much tbh, power armor is pretty big in F76 and F4

[haughty latch]

Gordy is so cool. Goodsprings is spot on IRL I hope we see it in season 2

[raven wolf]

Ok so I watched the show.

It was really good until it stopped being good. That’s my expert analysis.

|| I will give a semi critical and semi detailed explanation on why I say so:

While the first few episodes are great character and setting development. I love that it follows three characters who just happen to come together and their struggles are really great. It looks great and the clearly cared about the franchise which can’t be said about other game adaptions. The problem is that the show begins to starts to become stupid and the show needs to change literally everything we know about the series. Vault Tec exists (uh no), Brotherhood flew across the entire continent (huh ok), NCR is dead (what???), also New Vegas is screwed (my baby).

I just don’t get why show feels the need to change everything. I like self-contained character stories. Characters and story can single-handily carry a show. The writing just trips completely because the world isn’t explained well. It’s if you built up a cottage, then nukes everything up, then built a mansion over it.

I don’t think Fallout can recover from the metaphorical 2nd Great War, the show has created. How are people gonna care about water chips or entire cities when the biggest government has collapsed, there is a deep state, and the BoS is invading the west. This is what I meant when I said that the Fallout show is too big. Anyways, it was great until it stopped being great and began to be really annoying.||

[novel plank]

||NCR is not one town, the Brotherhood has done this multiple times across several games (and the Prydwen is next level, according to Fallout 4) and the Lucky 38 is still very intact.|| Not sure why this keeps getting misinterpreted.

[raven wolf]

||The NCR still collapsed, the BoS is causing the biggest war yet, the Lucky 38 being intact doesn’t mean much. It isn’t being misinterpreted, it’s just when a show becomes “too big to explain well”.||

[novel plank]

The sign says ||"First Capital,"|| and beyond that we know very little.

[raven wolf]

||What we do know is that California has turned into mad max somehow. Where is the government, oh it’s in exile. The NCR has literally collapsed and it’s hell for everyone. There are just raiders and no government enforcing anything.||

[novel plank]

California is frikkin huge ||and losing a whole city would put the surroundings into chaos.|| Besides, they've discussed these matters somewhat in interviews and concerns are (at present) seemingly overblown.

Also we could ||nuke the NCR or Legion at the end of FNV, so... /shrug.||

You should more bothered that ||the Master didn't find Vault 4. :P||

[raven wolf]

|| Sure but the government is still in ruins. The military, the rangers, everything is completely on halt. It’s like if you nuked London, everything is stopping or collapsing. Still I don’t find that to even be the biggest problem. Im more hard pressed that New Vegas is getting killed off like it looks like Dust. I think it’s actually cooler when the world of Fallout isn’t fallout. Fallout is essentially the antithesis of Fallout.||

||One of the reasons why the community are fighting over the fall of Shady Sands is because it directly affects New Vegas. If the NCR is nuked, that completely changes New Vegas. Even if it just means Shady Sands has fell to some kind of power, it still changes alot. It’s just a mess.||

||Also as a history nerd: if anyone says the “Fall of Shady Sands” means decline. Im not even gonna talk to you.||

[foggy fulcrum]

Well then I guess you shouldn’t talk to a lot of us who said that was it, only for Todd to confirm that as the case. XD

[feral bolt]

Todd Howard literally said it happens after new Vegas

[foggy fulcrum]

||The Nuking in particular ||

[raven wolf]

Todd Howard… who uses the word ‘fall’ like that in any historic or social sense?

[raven wolf]

||which is why I added the part about the “Fall of Shady Sands” in 2077||

[foggy fulcrum]

||Idk dude, I don’t think it’s that big a deal, the fact other people came to the conclusion the fall meaning the start of the fall and not the actual fall already says enough and Todd only reinforcing that makes that the case.||

[raven wolf]

||Sure but that conclusion only comes from people who think they wouldn’t make the capital of the NCR collapse. If you just watched the show as a newbie or a casual fan, the “fall of shady sands” is oddly closer to the “fall of rome” lol. Anyway language malfunction eh.||

[foggy fulcrum]

||No doubt that’s the intention, especially with Brotherhood personnel coming in and one taking Maximus.||

[digital copper]

As a history major -- people talking about Rome? It's a generally accepted consensus that the "fall" of Rome refers to its gradual decline as the center of power for the Empire and eventual wide-scale abandonment following multiple successive waves of invasions and sackings rather than one singular event that "destroyed" it

Not necessarily defending the show's decisions here, but it's entirely reasonable that a classroom of survivors 15 years after ||the city's destruction|| would regard ||the start of the war with the Legion and the focusing of military power in the Mojave|| to be the start of the city's "fall", since with the benefit of hindsight they likely consider that the event that contributed most strongly to the decline of the nation (given how wildly unpopular the war became)

[foggy fulcrum]

I also have a friend who’s an Anthropologist that confirms this

[raven wolf]

Yeah but my point is a linguistic one. If you said “fall of rome”, you think of the gradual decline that led to the sacking of rome by the germanic raiders. We don’t know what happened to Shady Sands to make it get this historic time frame and there is one date that is prescribed to it. It makes one think that it’s that it collapsed through force or instability.

So actually more “linguistically” similar to the Fall of Constantinople than Fall of Rome

[digital copper]

Yeah? And? Here they seem to be using it in the same sense, based on Todd's comments and the fact that it's listed as preceding the (admittedly undated, again not defending how the show handled it) ||nuking|| of the city. ||"Fall of Shady Sands" begins in 2277 with the Legion war and the nation's economic struggles coming in full swing, culminating in the nuking, which they likely blame on terrorists or enemies of the nation taking advantage of the military and government's hyperfocus on the Mojave conflict||

[raven wolf]

So what I’m saying is someone who isn’t an avid fan will know that or guess that

[foggy fulcrum]

Aaaaah

[raven wolf]

I thought that was pretty clear

[digital copper]

Oh for sure the average person isn't going to understand it, but like. So? Them not understanding it doesn't mean their misunderstanding is the case -- yet again, not defending how they handled it at all, I think they botched it pretty bad, just countering your apparent argument that the nuke must have happened in 2277

[iron vector]

This channels looks like a FOIA document sometimes.

[digital copper]

???

[iron vector]

Blacked-out spoilers every few lines!

[digital copper]

ahhhh lol

[foggy fulcrum]

I dub this… the Aaaaaah Channel lol

[raven wolf]

Wow this doesn’t deserve to get a giggle out of me but it did

[iron vector]

But yeah, I dig what you wrote. I'll just add that it's worth remembering that history isn't a logical, onerous progression of events, but tends to move in haphazard, unpredictable jumps - which make sense in hindsight, but we can't predict them. The traumatized survivors are trying to cope with the destruction of their capital Van Buren style, and so they will try to make sense of it, trying to pinpoint where the Fall began - even if it wasn't really a concrete event or a foregone conclusion.

[quick coral]

Yep, history can change based on the person telling the story. Word travels fast, but its not always true to events.

[errant crow]

Well, in actuality the Roman Empire ... literally survived multiple sackings of Rome. And it literally ceased to exist ... only in 1453 A.D. ||As for the NCR... for now we know that a) Shady Sands - the Republic's capital was obliterated sometimes after the events of New Vegas, b) mr. Todd Howard state that "they are still existing", but c) Vault 4 inhabitants treat NCR as it is not around anymore. b and c contradict each other to some degree so we need further clarification from the canon sources||

[raven wolf]

Eh it’s always been contentious if Byzantium is Rome

[errant crow]

It was. Period. Since it actually was simply the eastern half of the Roman Empire (the "one and only Imperium Romanum" thing). The name "Byzantine" was actually originally invented as part of Carolinean's empire (founded by Charlemagne himself) to claim them being the "real" Roman Empire.

[raven wolf]

Yeah

HRE had just as much of a claimant to Rome

[blissful oar]

hang on how does that work

carolingians were like 400 years later

oh you mean just the name itself

[errant crow]

Eastern Roman ("Byzantian") Empire wasn't "a claimant". The thing was that per Diocletian's reforms in late 3-rd century A.D. Roman Empire was made to be ruled by 4 emperors (2 senior one and 2 junior co-rulers) and 2 senates. Rome was to be center of government for the western part of the empire, Constantinople - for the eastern part. When Odoacer deposed the last Western Roman emperor in 476 A.D. he didn't even remotely thought that it was the end of Roman Empire. On the contrary - he sent Romulus Augustus's garments of power to Constantinople and asked to be a vassal of Eastern Roman emperor Zeno, to be given authority over Italy.

[errant crow]

The name actually. And with that a claim to be the "true" Roman emperors. Not vassals of those in Constantinople.

[blissful oar]

Oh i see the term byzantine was something used much later, but i'm not sure if it was anything to do with the carolingian dynasty, they were already a thing of the past once that term started getting used

[remote vessel]

Sometime in season 2 ||The Ghoul eventually runs out of Ass Jerky, he then forces Lucy to grab him some juicy Eye Grapes. ||

[raven wolf]

Nah

Holy Roman Empire > Eastern Roman

[visual night]

The Holy Roman Empire was IIRC a French empire that could have reformed the Roman Empire. Charlemagne could have married Empress Irene and reformed the Roman Empire but he didn't.

[lofty prairie]

Anyone see any Easter eggs or cameos?

[visual night]

||The code for the cold fusion was the release date of Fallout 1 which was October 10, 1997. Vault 33's water chip broke which is what happened in the Fallout 1. There are many skill magazines, Lucy comes out of the Super Duper Mart wearing an Armored Vault Suit. during the board meeting experiments for vaults 27, 29, 51, 87 and 106 were mentioned.||

||The Ghoul has the Bloody Mess perk, there is a Cold 6520 pistol , a Mini-Nuke, several pip-boys, a party hat in Ma's Sundries, There is NCR Ranger armor||

[dusty saddle]

Just finished the series

I gotta say this is one of the best video games adaptations ever

[errant crow]

Colt 6520 10-mm pistol, Mini-nuke for M-42 "Fatman" launcher and pip-boys are all from the Fallout franchise. How are these "easter eggs"? The 6520 pistol is probably .. somewhat the exception, since its design was borrowed from the "Hard boiled" comic-book. However the latter is not very widely known.

[lean harbor]

lol i dunno how i knew that but when ||heentered the code|| i just knew something was significant about that lol

[lofty prairie]

guys this is setting my teeth on edge not knowing but lucy survives right?

[fossil kelp]

U haven't finished the show yet?

[lofty prairie]

no just finished the ghouls episode man going to need a break from that for a couple of days that gave me severe anxiety after watching that episode i thought for a second that the doctor was a good guy

[fossil kelp]

Which episode exactly?

[lofty prairie]

4th

[fossil kelp]

Ah okay i remember what you're talking about

[fossil kelp]

It was a good episode

[lofty prairie]

gave me anxiety man Imma need a break fr for a couple days before returning to the last few episodes I’ll admit ive definitely seen worse things than that but saying that that’s definitely up there

[fossil kelp]

It wasn't that bad come on😭

[lofty prairie]

I don’t do well with blood on tv shows/movies but strangely enough i can tolerate violence blood gore etc in games tho odd isn’t it but anyway the blood in tv shows and movies just ultimately triggers my anxiety into panic attacks it really sucks tbh

[fossil kelp]

Damn... Didn't know sorry

[lofty prairie]

Don’t be nothing to be sorry about man

[lean harbor]

if she doesn’t why would they renew it for a second season?

[fossil kelp]

There are other main characters, or they could have made it into an anthology series, every season a new story

[lean harbor]

true but i felt lucy was the "main" character, ||a lot of the story revolves around her||

but every season a new story would be cool though

[fossil kelp]

Oh yeah for sure, she was definitely the main character
The ghoul and maximus were cool too

[fossil kelp]

Yeah it would be so. Much fun

[earnest flame]

I feel like Norm is such an underrated character from the show, I consider him as one of the main characters yet he's not even included in cast interviews most of the time. He was such a well written character and deserves more love fr

[earnest flame]

They could do a smaller scale spinoff for that one day if Amazon realizes how much money they could be making off of the franchise, similarly to how they made spinoffs for The Boys when the show popped off. A smaller scale Fallout anthology like Black Mirror with different types of story telling would be cool, one could be centered around a vault and it's experiments and could be written as a horror while another could be about someone from the Wasteland, a lot of potential with an idea like that but what would they call it?

[lofty prairie]

"Little brother" looks much older than Lucy to me lol but I absolutely agree he's got moxie and deserves some limelight

[earnest flame]

I just tell myself he's "little brother" by height and not age lmao

[lofty prairie]

That'll work and the anthology is a great idea for a spin off, they could re-use extras and sets and everything. Should be filming side by side and released during season to season downtime for the main show

[earnest flame]

Yeah a spinoff as an anthology seems like the smarter way to go about it considering the potentials of stories they could tell or do, and as you said they will be able to reuse extra props and sets and all. I agree with you. They would just need to use Black Mirror as a basis cause I feel that's one of the few anthology shows that do it so well, where you get closure for the story by the end of the episode and the next one is just a completely different vibe, they could do so many genres and story telling techniques

It's smarter than making a spinoff as another big budget show like the main one for sure and would be quicker filming wise considering anthologies are easy to film cause they're different stories per episode

[lofty prairie]

The dad?

[earnest flame]

Nah the brother

[lofty prairie]

Oh, yea, but what would the show be?

[earnest flame]

I think you misunderstood my comments, me talking ab the brother was just me thinking he's underrated while the spinoff idea is separate

I just had the thought while watching clips of the dude and shared it here and had no idea they were talking about a spinoff till I sent it and then replied to their convo about spinoff possibilities

[lofty prairie]

Spinoff wise, he has nothing interesting before the show, anything interesting during the show was in the show, so all the show could be is a separate branch from the future of the show

Like a different season 2

Pre-show, his history is essentially the same as Lucy, but he's less bought into the system, during-show, they show anything interesting he does, so it would have to be a spinoff

[earnest flame]

Wait what? I wasn't talking about having a spinoff with Norm as the main character

[lofty prairie]

No, but that's the only way to do it. Can't be past or present

[earnest flame]

The only way to have a spinoff is to have Norm as the main character? They can do a spinoff in the past or present and with different characters because a spinoff can be at a different point in time, it doesn't always have to relate to the main show timeline wise

[lofty prairie]

No, spinoff possibilities are aplenty. Norm is spinoff only. There's no other way to learn more about him

The only way to tell a Norm story is future from S1, so S2 or a spinoff. There's no past Norm story

[earnest flame]

Yeah but idk if anyone's really asking for a Norm story... especially one about his past cause as you said his past is similar to Lucy though differing in interests and personality

I just think he needs more love from the community cause he was a well written character too, he made the vault sections of the show so well done

[lofty prairie]

He did amazing, I hope that's a core part of S2, we... what spoilers are ok?

No spoilers still?

[earnest flame]

I think spoilers are okay as long as you do the bracket blacked out thingy

idk how to do it

[lofty prairie]

How do I do that?

[lunar hawk]

You put || on both sides of what you want to spoil

[earnest flame]

||like this?||

ohhh i was doing just one line thats why it didnt work, thanks @lunar hawk! cute cat btw

[lofty prairie]

Double bracket? 1 did not work

[earnest flame]

It's like line thingy not bracket, this one |, two at the start and two at the end

[lofty prairie]

||We still don't know what happened to Vault 32||

It worked

[earnest flame]

||I think it's heavily implied that Vault 32 peeps basically had riots and started killing each other because they knew about vault 31 controlling them||

[lofty prairie]

I'm 80-90% with you, but ||they killed themselves||

[earnest flame]

||I don't think all of them kill themselves cause some of the bodies Norm discovered shows that some killed each other||

[lofty prairie]

Dang bot, it was quote from the show

Ok, lemme try again

[lofty prairie]

||All of the deaths were suicide or mutual suicide "killing each other", the notes written everywhere were very anti-management...||

It's very difficult to talk about the show without spoilers

The cousin was my favorite character, he's so weird and awkward, lol

[red forge]

I see him as an accurate depiction of being sheltered.

[lofty prairie]

He really is. He's just thinking very much the Vault way of thinking. He's not a bad guy at all, he's so nice, too nice

I almost feel bad, he legit loves Lucy, I can't help but feel for the guy

His love is very misguided, but I still feel bad for him

[earnest flame]

Considering how normalized it was in the vault to get with your cousins, yeah he isn't a bad guy in retrospect

[lofty prairie]

His life during the show shows how good he is. I love that guy

[lunar hawk]

Probably due to there being such a limited gene pool in a vault after so long. Most everyone is gonna end up related in some way at some point

Also I'm pretty sure his name is Chet, but I might be misremembering

[lofty prairie]

Yea, that's what they meant, most everyone is at least a cousin, unless you pull from another Vault

[lofty prairie]

Chet is the cousin, yes

He takes over the role of Steph's baby daddy

Norm and Chet are pretty much as heroic as Lucy, IMHO

[earnest flame]

I don’t know if he’s heroic in a sense considering he turned his back on finding out the truth when Norm was asking for help, is he a good guy? Yeah but is he an even bigger coward than Norm? Kind of, which is ironic cause they made Norm seem so chicken in the first episode yet he has all of the balls to do what has to be done for the truth, he’s not brave in a physical way like his sister but man he sure is brave in other ways

[lofty prairie]

Chet and Norm are definitely cowards, 100%

I also think they're both quite brave, even Chet, considering their isolation lives

That will seem like a contradiction, brave cowards, but it's not

[earnest flame]

It isn’t, brave cowards exist in the real world too, life isn’t black or white, good or bad. Always a gray middle area. However I still think Norm is braver than Chet

[lofty prairie]

Maximus is a huge coward, but people call him brave

[earnest flame]

It just didn’t rub me off in a good way how willing Chet was on turning a blind eye when he knew something was off, without Norm the Vault experiments would’ve kept going and he’d let it happen despite knowing was he does

[lofty prairie]

Norm is braver than Chet, but only like 10% braver, they are generally quite level

[earnest flame]

Maximus didn’t turn a blind eye when he knew someone needed help or when it came to full-filling his “mission”, he was written so well because he wants so badly to be like the BoS member that “saved” him as a kid but he’s still trying to get over his cowardice

[lofty prairie]

Chet is like the Vault Maximus, he's looking for the good life in his mini-circle

[lofty prairie]

Literally, in the field of battle, the first thing Maximus did was turn a blind eye to someone in need, it's literally what he does 90% of the time

[lofty prairie]

Not necessary, but fulfilling*

[earnest flame]

i keep forgetting the swearing rule and i typed so much 😭😭

[lofty prairie]

Just DM me if they keep blocking you

[earnest flame]

i want to cry i forgot what i said

[lofty prairie]

Probably something about how Chet is amazing

[earnest flame]

Well basically what I said was are we talking about Knight Titus? Because Maximus is more so a morally ambiguous character which is why most people say he represents the typical playthrough most people do on Fallout. It was his first time really going out in the Wasteland cause apparently that chapter only lets Knight and such go out and patrol (as far as we know) and so his mindset was more like “Oh wow that’s a huge irradiated bear what the hell do i do, and wow this Knight Titus guy is kind of being an meanie (i cant swear) to me and is basically threatning me, idk if I should help him” which is more so a mindset most people would have in that scenario rather than him just being a coward, it’s a little more complicated. While yes Chet’s case is also a little complicated cause he just wants a simple life, Maximus more so portrays the idea of “I wanna do the right thing but it’s harder than I thought” while Chet is more like “I wanna do the right thing but also I don’t want to ruin the perfect bubble I’m living in right now so I’m gonna ignore the oddities of the vault and just play daddy”

[visual night]

One of the pip-boys is the Pip-Boy 2000 from Fallout 76.

[lofty prairie]

There's a lot to unpack here, but I don't think most people play as cowards, but let me keep reading

Chet is honorable, Max is a B (mods deleted the message)

[earnest flame]

Eh, agree to disagree but that’s kind of the beauty of Fallout, everyone has differing opinions and it makes for fun conversations also I am pretty sure a bot deletes it when it detects swear words

[red forge]

Which scene was that?

Never mind. Just saw the rest of the conversation.

Titus ||treated him like crap and with contempt. Blamed everything on Maximus, even his own screw ups. I still see Maximus as trying to do the right thing, but those such people will only help so far.||

[earnest flame]

I don’t want to be disrespectful cause it was genuinely an entertaining convo but I made a lot of good points just to be met with “Chet is honorable, Max is a B” im crying

[earnest flame]

I am pretty sure he was purposely written like that to contrast Lucy’s “I wanna do the right thing no matter the cost” mindset which challenges Maximus’ current mindset, we see it in the scene after the leave the mutated vault, clearly their “relationship” will build each other up in coming seasons which I think is neat cause I’m a sucker for characters starting out flawed but changing as they meet people and go through things

[red forge]

Yeah I do get that his intent was to deal with those who did him wrong. That was always his goal.

[lofty prairie]

Maximus is a total coward, you don't need to defend him

[earnest flame]

Like you defend Chet? Who willingly didn’t help Norm uncover more about what Vault 31 was doing to them?

Who basically told Norm “Just leave it alone, it’s just trouble”?

[meager frigate]

Maximus imo is tried of being pushed around and just wants to do what's right even though he might be alone

[earnest flame]

Meanwhile Chet only wanted to help when it came to Lucy and after she left, he didn’t want to take the initiative to do the right thing. Maximus made morally questionable choices especially with Titus, but deep down he wants to do the right thing and be like his inspiration for even being in the Brotherhood, which is why he was so disheartened at the end to find out they don’t always do the right thing

[red forge]

And ||Chet even agreed when Norm called him a coward||.

[bold pendant]

Maximus is a rare example of a well-made stupid character. He’s not just comic relief, he actually has ambitions and emotions, but he is just dumb as hell

A lot of that is probably due to being super naive after growing up in the brotherhood

[earnest flame]

That’s a very good way of putting it, they even showcase it in the scene where Lucy asks him if he wants to do it, he’s dumb and naive but not because he’s low IQ but just because he doesn’t know enough about the world, he probably grew up in the same bootcamp we saw him at the start of the show

So many saw that scene with Lucy and thought it was just a dumbly written scene but it quite literally shows their difference in character due to growing up differently

[red forge]

People don't get the institutionalisation of sheltered environments.

[bold pendant]

I still think that scene was a bit much. Also it’s kind of confusing since he implies the BOS never teaches their recruits what sex is but in the first episode we see an aspirant tugging they tallywhacker in their bunks

[red forge]

That's exactly what they exhibit from their respective perspectives.

[red forge]

||That's not sex though... however Maximus does mutter something about that practice, but I don't recall what he said.||

[earnest flame]

Sex seems to be a normal thing people talk about in Lucy’s vault, they are so open with it so it isn’t left handed for her to think it’s normal in the surface. I don’t think the BoS teaches them about sex, I think the tugging the tallywhacker guy probably learned it elsewhere which is possible cause in real life there are people who know nothing about sex yet figure out how to please themselves one way or another

[earnest flame]

All I remember him saying was that some guys (not him though) grow and pop like a pimple which he thought wasn’t normal

I personally think he just said some bs because he was scared and had no experience and was tryna play it cool, similarly to how some teen boys who have no experience freak out when a girl initiates

[red forge]

Then eventually ||found the courage to kiss her.||

[earnest flame]

Exactly, which shows growth on his end. Love to see well done character development in a show, which isn’t surprising considering Westworld had the same writing (At least at the start)

[zealous surge]

The vault suit from the games and the ones from tv have a huge difference

The game is slimmer

[earnest flame]

I think liberties were slightly taken so that it looks better on camera

[bold pendant]

Only in 4 and 76

[earnest flame]

Yeah, in 3 and New Vegas they looked like a similar cloth to the one in the show, even had pockets and stuff

[zealous surge]

Maybe they have variations in each vaults

[earnest flame]

Most likely the case, I saw a theory about how some vault suits have variations cause it depends on the tasks they have to do in the vault or something like that, like some vaults would need pockets and others don’t

[silent summit]

Another reason they made the primary power armor weapon a assault rifle is probably because it’s tobe is hollow, so it’s easy to move around freely

[visual night]

The Assault Rifle is pretty much an LMG. Its got the barrel of a Lewis Machine Gun from WW1. Johnathan Ferguson from the Royal Armories Museum reacted to the weapons of the Fallout TV series as well as the weapons from the games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsP9CGq3dL8

[errant crow]

It was actually originally planned to be a machinegun specifically tailored to be used by power armor-clad soldier, with the "regular go-to assault rifle" in Fallout 4 being the Type-93 (Chinese assault rifle from Fallout 3).

[digital copper]

yeah, it's called "machine gun" in some of the game files and the silencer attachment says its firing .50 cal

[errant crow]

And... I actually must apologize. The plot move with Shady Sands (NCR's capital) obliterated wasn't made up "from scratch". It was actually part of the planned Van Buren (Interplay's failed attempt at Fallout 3) plotline...

[foggy fulcrum]

Oh wow… I didn’t know that…

[fossil kelp]

Was shady sands mentioned in the games? I didn't play alot of the games yet

[novel plank]

It's typically the first town you visit in Fallout 1.

Visitable again in Fallout 2.

However, its location is far North of LA, where the show claims it is located. Moving the city is honestly the show's biggest lore change.

[fossil kelp]

This take place before the bombs were dropped on it right?

[novel plank]

Fallout 1 is nearly 130 years before the TV show.

[foggy fulcrum]

The biggest time jump between games is Fallout 1 and 2, 2 to 3 being the 2nd Longest.

[iron vector]

Wouldn't that be 2 to FNV?

[foggy fulcrum]

I’m talking all the games

[iron vector]

I usually take into account narratives, Fo3 didn't continue the best Coast storyFNV did.

[foggy fulcrum]

I never really shared the West Coast Hype.

I’m from the East Coast so that’s probably one reason, but another is simply that I just enjoy both coasts and don’t really like the whole West vs East.

[paper plume]

East vs West is mainly perpetuated by people unhappy with where they live.

I’ve lived on both. They both have advantages and disadvantages. That said, one I only like to visit, wouldn’t like to live there, but I don’t care what others think about it, so what I think is beside the point. And I am actually living where I live by choice, not by being born there.

[iron vector]

I think the West Coast holds a special place in everyone's hearts because it was first and defined the setting. I enjoy stories on both sides, but Fo1 and Fo2 were the first for me, as a kid, and will always have that benefit of exposing me to complex stories and gameplay.

[civic trench]

my older sister has never played fallout before and but shes on ep 2 and thought dogmeats name was “meatloaf”

my favorite fallout dog. meatloaf

[lofty prairie]

Close enough lol

[valid copper]

What is everyone's opinion of Moldaver? I actually still think she's a terrible person. ||Even though Hank & the others from Vault 31 were total monsters, the rest of Vault 33 were completely innocent, and didn't deserve to be massacred by Moldaver's Raiders. Also, anyone who hires Raiders to do their dirty work is automatically a bad person in my book. But what's really messed up is what she did to Lucy's mother, her supposed best friend. Instead of being a true friend and putting her out of her misery, she kept her alive as a living corpse~~, just to guilt shame Hank, and turn Lucy against him. She may have claimed to have good intentions, but she's a monster just like Hank.||

[red forge]

In some respects I feel ||she was killed off too soon... but ultimately she carried and delivered the plot arc she was written for.||

[shadow heath]

Tbh, while I agree that Moldaver is bad, ||I think they killed her off too soon. Like whenever someone mentioned Moldaver all the responses were ''shush-shush do not mention that name because she's dangerous!'' and then her ending just seems... underwhelming.||

[red forge]

Yeah ||her bleeding out to death was sudden and underwhelming...||

[lusty lark]

Very. ||Maximus could've given her a Stimpak then take her into Brotherhood custody as a POW - thus he would've likely been promoted beyond just Knight. Capturing an enemy leader isn't a light feat after all. I really think she would've even gotten the Brotherhood to see what's really at play. [They seem oblivious about Vault 31, 32, 33] Having that sort of intel would've made the Brotherhood and NCR forces in other regions of California immediately set their sights on the revived Vault Tec.] Still, i think her death was way too soon.||

[errant crow]

There was actually a question of ||what Moldaver was going to do once she got that McGuffin fusion reactor online. Okay, you got a potent electricity source and then...whats next?||

[red forge]

My understanding is ||it's to make the manufacturing of fusion cores obsolete, and overall succeed nuclear tech.||

[errant crow]

Were fusion cores even made by anyone other than Enclave post-2077? ||And.... Moldaver's reactor isn't nearly as portable as the fusion core ...hmm...||

[raven wolf]

Well west coast just has a better story

[boreal junco]

the art style of the series is very good. Too good. I'm disappointed that it rides the nostalgia wave right to the end.

[foggy fulcrum]

Good for you, I still don’t share the hype

Like you can all tell me it’s the better story and It would be irrelevant to me as someone who likes both coasts. I just don’t follow the mentality because Fallout is Fallout.

[raven wolf]

Yeah but not all Fallout is created equal

[foggy fulcrum]

It is for me

[hallow sail]

😂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW6LpPD73S0

[iron vector]

Moldaver thinks on a higher level than most wastelanders. I don't think she fits easily into good or bad categories, especially since the minor sacrifice of Vault 33 dwellers trapped underground and ultimately doomed to die in their prison allowed for recovering cold fusion and giving it to the wasteland.

As for Rose, the two were obviously in love. She probably tried to save her, but didn't have the heart to kill her until they completed their project.

[little linden]

Think Shady Sands is the most moveable location. It's one of the only places in 1 that doesn't have a stated geographic location outside the world map. Like how Necropolis is said to be Bakersfield etc. I got the Impression the show still places Shady Sands ambiguously outside of LA however.

[novel plank]

That's exactly what they did - it is referenced as the crater outside the Boneyard/LA near the Griffith Observatory. It's not a story melting moment or anything, but it is a big geographical change.
Matters more if you want/need the Master to have dominion over the area during Fallout 1.

[iron vector]

Though Necropolis in th game isn't where Bakersfield is, while Shady Sands kind of relies on being between Vaults 13 and 15.

Honestly, it's just TV series magic and a concession.

[little linden]

Is it referenced directly as there?

[novel plank]

You can see it visually.

[little linden]

I don't think you can. There are a few of crators visible in that scene and it doesn't match up with the shady sands crater

[little linden]

Yeah I'm not seeing it

I think the possible way to narrow down a location is to check if Lucy's pipboy map matches a real spot. But that's hard to tell.

[digital copper]

ehhh, i'll never forgive the CG team's decision to surround it with ruined skyscrapers even in flashbacks 🤣

Shady Sands' whole thing is that they built it from scratch in the desert! they showed us plenty of empty deserts throughout the show! they didn't need to undermine its vibe from the classics by putting it in the middle of an urban ruin! 😂

[lofty prairie]

i like to think the "shady sands" in the television show isnt the actual one, its such a cheap way of writing it out by just saying it was nuked, it would have been cool to say the republic fell into a civil war and the city was destroyed. because that would have made sense with how out stretched out they are and how corrupt they are

[iron vector]

Stretched yes, corrupt, not really. They have the usual problems of growing democracies' and nascent economies.

[errant crow]

Well, NCR was corrupt to a degree, but NCR's not perfect politicians and somewhat greedy industrialist and caravan cartels did retain common sense and basic human empathy towards other humans. NCR didn't had genocidal plans for all non-NCR humans, as did the Enclave. NCR didn't subject many non-NCR folks to horrible experiments often for the sake of "because we can do it" as did the Institute. NCR recognized ghouls as equal citizens and even allowed peaceful supermutants to settle in with some restrictions, instead of BoS's policy of killing every ghoul encountered "for they are mutants"...

[iron vector]

Tbh people should listen less to Caesar and more to people like Ranger Jackson

Much of the "NCR is corrupt and rotten" just repeats Caesars pitch.

[errant crow]

NCR are human beings. As such.. we are not perfect. All of us. In NCR's case things that are corrupt are deviations from the overall ideal. It's however not the case with Caesar's legion, where slavery WAS part of Caesar's ideal, or Enclave, where plans for genocide of all non-Enclave humans were also part of the "original ideal"

NCR could strive and actually do strive to become better, more humane and just society. Caesar's Legion could not get rid of slavery and become more humane without ceasing to be Caesar's Legion. That's the difference.

[visual night]

I liked her. Moldaver isn't bad.

[raven wolf]

Because Caesar brings up a good point about the NCR

You can visually see the NCR’s incompetence

[iron vector]

Caesar is a fascist and doesn't have any good points. As Soviet points out, the NCR at its worst is miles ahead of the horror that the Legion is - and unlike the NCR, the horrific elements are an intrinsic part of Caesar's little intellectual abomination. The NCR can seem ineffectual at times, but that's because it's a huge nation trying to balance between a good life for its hundreds of thousands citizens and securing it's lands and necessary expansion. The Mojave stands out because they've been hampered by House and the Legion both - and since it's a peaceful front since 77, it's manned by conscripts and second rate troops, while actual frontliners are elsewhere.

The NCR faces issues that are the standard fare of any fledgling nation or organization. Notably, you are also shown how they can improve - albeit not with the instantly satisfying bullet to the head, but through legislative action brought down by evidence (eg. Cass' quest, which sets in motion a landmark effort to rein in caravan houses IF you don't slaughter Crimson Caravan and the Van Graffs).

[errant crow]

Actually, Caesar's Legion is not fascist. The Enclave is, surely, the NCR could theoretically become ruled by quasi-fascist or fascist regime, but not Caesar's organization. The thing is that fascism is a product of capitalist industrial civilization. Caesar's Legion is in practice a feudal-type formation, reminiscent of Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire. There is a catch - such organizations when faced with conquering more advanced civilizations could either decimate them (as it happened with Mongol Empire's conquest of Central Asia) or.... be assimilated by very people they conquered (as it happened with China). Caesar was actually enslaving only savage tribes or those, who resisted. Civilised cities and settlements who aknowledged him as supreme power and agreed to pay tributes were allowed continuing existence and even self-rule under Caesar's Legion protection. That being said, that if Caesar's policy continue Caesar's Legion as an organization IS doomed. Even if it wins (that would cost many and many innocent lives and bring great suffering to even more folks) it would in the end cease to be Caesar's Legion as it is. But even then, NCR IS ultimately morally superior by simply considering that NCR abolishes slavery in lands it conquers. Caesar's Legion, even if it becomes more civilized would perpetuate slavery for too-long-run. Civilized societies sometimes "miraculously" "see no evil" in slavery, evident for example by literally 150 or so existence of slavery in USA and Brazilian Empire/Brazilian Republic

[errant crow]

And yes, NCR is actually the example when something evil (Vault Tec's experiment) could bring in something good. NCR was born out of Vault 15's experiment, that consisted of locking people of various different races and cultures into one Vault. So they were basically forced to cooperate to survive, thus learning the skill of making compromises for the greater common good.

[red forge]

I've just thought of something... whenever Lucy talks to surface dwellers who question her mannerisms and dialogue, I've realised it's like the movie "Idiocracy".

[shadow heath]

I mean, an NCR politician did plan on antagonizing Jacobstown for political clout.

And the NCR patrol at Camp Searchlight considered it proper to kill their comrade who had become a ghoul.

So while on the surface there is acceptance there is also clearly a split in this ideology.

Also, the Brotherhood doesn't target non-feral ghouls.

[iron vector]

I used sensu largo, not strictly according to definitions. That said, the argument could be made that since all of the post nuclear world follows after industrialization and capitalism, it can qualify as such. Can't really invoke Genghis Khan imho, when he already happened and Caesar not only operates in a much different context, he is deliberately choosing to be a monster.

[errant crow]

As per TV show BoS does not make distinction between feral and sane ghouls unfortunately. ||Thaddeus's fate the prime example||

[errant crow]

It is actually the context that matters yes. And to that end it should be noted that Caesar lived in Wasteland - very cruel world of literal monsters, raiders and cannibals. Caesar was not sadistical either... however he did had misguided ideas and he unfortunately chose to be absolutely pitiless in pursuing said ideas....

[iron vector]

Thaddeus kind of hated ghouls on his own, so it's more a reflection of him than the Brotherhood.

[shadow heath]

||Since when do you become a ghoul by taking a couple puffs of something? I think Maximus and Thaddeus have no clue what causes the formation of ghouls - it is radiation. Also, ghouls don't regenerate limbs.||

[raven wolf]

The difference is that the Legion benefits the elite of society, the military and officials. The point that Caesar makes about the Legion are actually good points like pointing out how strong stable long-lasting leaders like Tandi create a more stable and stronger government.

I don’t really think you can just say Caesar is being ridiculous and NCR can just reform because reformation takes a long time and isn’t guaranteed. The problem with just throwing your hands up and saying “well the NCR is big” is that it isn’t going to get smaller. The NCR will always have to deal with new struggles from Oregon to Baja. Reformation is only considered when a guy with a stitched-up brain distributing high speech skills comes around which is no basis for a system of reformation.

There’s a more underlying problem with the NCR and its that the good for the people is often misconstrued as good for the brahmin barons. One can claim that the NCR have caused greater damage to the Mojave than Mr House or even Legion. At least for the Legion, they murder people who are profligates like Nipton who was able to extort money from both NCR and Legion and think they could get away. The NCR has fumbled the Mojave so badly that it’s the root cause of most of the Mojave’s problems. It’s why Mr House is most often compared to Singapore because Singapore knows how to get stuff done. The rights of the people are put into less importance than the growth of the country. It’s why many Singaporeans are fine with their current system because they believe a dictatorship focused on order and economic prosperity is far better than one of mass individual freedoms.

[raven wolf]

Im Korean and we can owe most of the Korean economic miracle to Park Chung Hee’s dictatorship. However, his choice of pandering to the big corporations (chaebols) led to them having massive influence in the government (basically, they brahmin barons). So dictatorship can be both used for economic and legislative advancement but also negatives. So I don’t think Caesar or Mr House are stupid and not bringing up any good points about the NCR. Anyways #fallout-general-chat

[torpid ermine]

Caesar and the Legion is just a waiting game, a conservative traditional society that relies on slave labor and social and economic suppression and monopoly is inherently unstable; also remember what happened to the dictatorship in S. Korea?
The problem with those types of powers is that they inevitably cave into themselves from a multitude of angles

[raven wolf]

Most of them got assassinated or committed massacre against their citizens. However, I think it should also be pointed out that even in democratic Korea, corruption and abuse of power is popular. The difference is that when you do protest in a democratic society, you often don’t get the other side of a bullet. In our case, our president resigned (it revolves around Samsung and occultism, cool stuff).

[torpid ermine]

Corruption and abuse of power is able to be fixed in a properly functioning democracy, but not anywhere in a dictatorship, I think it greatly worsens

[torpid ermine]

Yeah that was nuts but maybe not for this chat tbh haha

[iron vector]

They really don't. Autocratic leaders exist in a bubble and any good they make is contingent on them existing. Look at Habsburgs for what happens when autocrats inevitably degenerate.

[raven wolf]

The Habsburg is a case of inbreeding 💀
Like we aren’t talking about dynasties here, we’re talking about dictators

Also so you just admitted that Caesar and House do have a point

[errant crow]

Ah yes... mr. House and the Strip. Do mr. House built farms there, or factories? No and no. There are mafia gangs (three of them) and gambling dens. And these are parasitic by their very nature. Period.

[raven wolf]

Ok but Mr House doesn’t need to. That’s one of his business models. The reason why he doesn’t want to go to war with the NCR is that he relies on the NCR for cheap tourism and to keep his tourists from not starving. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

[errant crow]

But that business model could only exist by exploiting more essential parts of the economy. Strip's economy is thus linked to the NCR's one. With one caveat. NCR could do without the Strip, and it is not the case vice-versa.

[raven wolf]

The NCR can’t keep NCR citizens from New Vegas, as a democratic nation, the citizens are in there right to enter New Vegas freely.

[iron vector]

Whatever point they might have is lost due to the BS they spew. The Legion is obviously horrific, and its mad leaders criticism is really baseless. House is, well, House, who's a parasite on the NCR and wants to suck it dry to achieve his goals, via eg. The extortionate fees for water and power.

[raven wolf]

Yeah so, you’re not making any points against how Mr House and Legion are wrong about the NCR. You’re just pointing out what they are which is quite profitable and successful, more so than the NCR.

[iron vector]

The most laughable criticism is of Tandi. She was literally voted in every time, because she ran with policies that benefited the people and resulted in mass support. But if she screwed up, she would have been removed by the council. Literally the NCR endings if Vaults 15 outreach fails.

[iron vector]

The NCR literally is the single largest nation in the wasteland, with a high quality of life, political rights, protection from discrimination, and a ton of other feats virtually impossible to find anywhere in the wasteland. Neither Legion not House are anywhere near being more profitable than the NCR.

[errant crow]

Forms of governments were and are actually very heavily influenced by two underlying basic factors. The structure of economy and the level of technology. With both intertwined between each other. And it was not unknown that a government very effective in one period could become ineffective as technology and economy progresses. For example, the Ottoman Empire was very effective in 15-th to 17-th century, when production technology was still pretty basic and economy was feudal. But as Industrial revolution of 19-th century took place, Ottoman Empire became more and more obsolete and eventually collapsed.

[iron vector]

The NCR started from scratch, to boot. All House could manage was a parasitic luxury resort that can only become a significant force if he steals Hoover Dam from the NCR. And Legion, well, is the Legion. Even if it's cities are on par with the NCR, it's basically the NCR-but-worse on account of all the crucifixion

[raven wolf]

Yet the NCR dollar has collapsed in value in recent time. Most of the wealth of the NCR is stuck up in Brahmin Baron’s pockets.

[raven wolf]

Ok so being a parasite isn’t a bad thing, Mr House also started from scratch a adapted to the new powers around him. You’re making such a bad point about Mr House being bad leader just because he’s a parasite when those don’t have causation.

[iron vector]

I know. I noted it as a general rule, that autocracies are only as strong as their leaders, and the more centralized they are, the weaker they get in the long term. The Mongol Empire, for instance, or the ups and downs of Byzantines, tied to the quality of emperors.

[iron vector]

House literally started with all the stuff he stashed in Lucky 38, complete with killer robots.

NCR started with a pile of dirt and a lousy GECK.

[raven wolf]

Im more talking about his matters with the families and treaties with the NCR. Again being a parasite isn’t a bad thing in the Mojave, it’s probably the most useful of things. Nipton was crazy successful until the Legion burnt it down and New Vegas is protected.

[iron vector]

Which was only possible due to the stash he had. You can't offer medicine if you don't actually have any.

I mean, forgive me for not respecting House, authoritarian scum who's fine with slavery and exploitation as long as he benefits from it.

[raven wolf]

Im not even asking for you to respect Mr. House, like I think you’re forgetting that this is fiction. What I am saying is that your criticism is just unfair considering what we actually see, both of New Vegas and the Legion.

[iron vector]

Which pale in comparison to the NCR.

Which, again, has a standing army and citizens living in a democratic state which tries and succeeds for the most part in maintaining the values it was founded up.

[raven wolf]

What exactly?

[iron vector]

Everything.

[raven wolf]

But not every nation needs those things to be successful

[iron vector]

I don't consider any nation that doesn't care about the people a success.

House explicitly doesn't care. His little "paradise" is surrounded by miserable ruins and people he displaced, while he does zero to address the situation or be a benefit outside himself.

Caesar is, well, Caesar, a monster.

NCR shows both of them are worse approaches.

[raven wolf]

Ok… that just seems like you have stingy classifications for success.

[iron vector]

It's mostly not "line go up then stonks and successss" but "people living a good life". I know that's basically communism, but I'm used to it

[raven wolf]

House doesn’t really need to care, there are freedoms in the Strip and there are rules in the Strip. House doesn’t care because he doesn’t need to care. Westside doesn’t bring in anything for the Strip and so it isn’t necessary for him to care.

[iron vector]

So he gets a golf club to the face for being a crappy autocrat and a petty thief.

[raven wolf]

Ok but I never said he wasn’t a bad person

[iron vector]

And "freedoms"... Especially for Omerta slaves, right?

[raven wolf]

How are they slaves? I guess they essentially sold their souls so it’s wage slavery.

[iron vector]

...you did listen to Joana and Sweetie, right?

[raven wolf]

I think I played their quest once on my first playthrough then never did it again. I know I did the “action” too on my evil playthrough.

[iron vector]

Omertas make drugs available cheaply to their prostitutes, then once they are addicted, make them pay elevated rates for them. Which is always more expensive than what they can earn.

This is a textbook case of debt slavery.

[raven wolf]

Yeah

[iron vector]

House talks a big game about not interfering with the casinos, but ultimately they are his employees (not to mention, hes very creative about exploiting loopholes in contracts) and he is responsible.

[raven wolf]

Tbf, he doesn’t really interfere at all with the casinos. His hands are just as handicapped during the Omerta coup.

[iron vector]

Until he really wants to and finds an external contractor to meddle in their affairs.

[raven wolf]

Yeah because he can’t himself

[iron vector]

But what it all boils down to, Houses vision of a functional society is horror as far as I'm concerned. If freedom is tied to the capacity of your wallet, it's no freedom at all.

[raven wolf]

It really isn’t horror though. Again it’s really just Singapore, if Singapore is your vision of a horror then there would be a lot of other pleasant countries that are horrors.

[iron vector]

As a society, yes, it is. Especially when you have examples of societies that are happier, just as prosperous, and do not require sacrificing your freedoms.

Plus, Singapore at least worked for its status and economic success. House just leeches off the NCR.

He literally states that his plan is to exploit the NCR after stealing the Dam the NCR restored to working order.

[raven wolf]

Definitely the most profitable plan in the Fallout series

[iron vector]

Still a robbery.

[raven wolf]

… you do realize he is the house

[iron vector]

Thus the name

At any rate, my point is best summarized by W.E.B. DuBois: "Work is service not gain. The object of work is life not income. The reward of production is plenty, not private property. We should measure the prosperity of the nation not by the number of millionaires, but by the absence of poverty; the prevalence of health; the efficiency of the public schools; and the number of people who can, do read worthwhile books."

[proper cave]

okokok but hear me out right. ||Alliance between Hank MacLean and Caesar's Legion in season 2??||

[errant crow]

Actually, we do not know exactly about the level of life for ordinary NCR dweller. But still, NCR abolishes slavery, Ceasar's Legion glorify and practice this (that means that yes, if a civilised city or community accepts Caesar's Legion overlordship they are basically free to self-rule provided they do not rebel and pay their taxes, but if they practice slavery, it would remain there, as their overlords also practice slavery. When NCR conquers a city or settlement it sets slaves free). And what's more, NCR is capitalist state, Caesar's Legion is in practice early feudal lordship. A lot like Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire actually.

[errant crow]

It is more actually that in both cases of democracies and authoritarian governments most stable and successful ones are those, who include a system of checks and balances to keep the overall governance system "fool-proof".

[iron vector]

The average level is miles above the average wastelanders existence, and survival is assured (or was) in the heartland. NCR is trying to practice what it preaches, and while there is wealth inequality, we can't ignore that it's successful because it put in practice what it preaches go a significant degree.

[errant crow]

We actually don't know that for sure. Alas, we only saw the NCR's capital in Fallout 2 and that's it. However, it is likely that living in the NCR is yes, miles better than beyond it's territory. But, it must be noted, that for most civilised cities that came under Caesar's Legion's rule that rule.. wasn't actually something that bad. Legion didn't interfere much in their daily lives or personal freedoms (aside from "pay tributes and don't mess in Legion's business"), but in return for tributes Legion actually did put down supermutants, raiders and packs of monsters.

So, while Caesar is pitiless slave-driver, he actually did quite many things good to other people. That can't be denied. So ... he is a villain, yes, but nowhere near genocidal fascists of the Enclave or sadistic self-serving bastards from the Institute.

[iron vector]

And yet he really didn't achieve anything more than the NCR - but at a terrible price to humanity.

[little linden]

The irl success of the Khan's was contingent on a form of bureaucracy. That caused anxiety and a lot of historical misinterpretation as it went against their ideas of absolute power. (The word Horde is basically aristocratic in meaning) to apply that logic, I think the legions potential is really measurable by how their influence would apply after Caeser. And I'm not fully sure what that would amount to.

[errant crow]

About the terrible price... that, unfortunately, must be evaluated in context. Fallout's universe Wasteland isn't nearly the place of sunshine and flowers. It is a place of very literal monsters, cannibals and raiders. A place, where violence and cruelty are a very common commodity. And it must be aknowledged that for quite many men and women from civilised settlements/cities that accepted Caesar's lordship, Caesar's Legion made their lives better. That doesn't absolve Caesar of his cruelty and pitilessness and having done some horrible things, but nonetheless. In contrast, self-righteous f**ks from the Institute only did made lives of any folks not from their very limited ranks considerably worse and more miserable. So, in my eyes every single adult Institute member DO deserve being put to death.

With no mercy to be shown. Creating supermutant gangs is reason enough.

[little linden]

I think the issue is it's hard to assess given the lack of areas under legion influence we can visit.

We have war camps. And maybe the white legs count

[errant crow]

And that's also. White Legs are a barbarian tribe, not a civilised town. Caesar's Legion's policy towards these two kinds of human communities is totally different, that must be noted.

That is when Caesar's Legion conquers a barbarian tribe, they simply enslave them, with some of the tribesman then indoctrinated into legionnaries. And yes, rank-and-file legionnaries in Caesar's Legion are both formally and effectively Caesar's slaves with little to no personal freedoms.

[little linden]

Yeah I guess what I'm getting at is we don't really get to see what the other side of the legion looks like besides the "safe roads" remarks of a merchant and legion rhetoric. Which is somewhat analogous to the actual Khans - but the staying influence of the Khans was arguably bureaucracy maintaining trade and communication, enabling travel, that survived the death of Khans and intentional infighting of their succession process.

[iron vector]

Even with the context, Caesars performance is abysmal. He can't defend himself that he didn't know better, as he's an NCR citizen AND a scholar educated by the Followers. He can't raise the issue of necessity, as he persisted well beyond the point it was necessary for securing his safety. He does all of this evil deliberately and consciously. Yes, I maintain that the price is to steep, what with the slavery, forced breeding, mass murder et al. NCR accomplished the same, in the same circumstances, without resorting to monstrous methods.

[lofty prairie]

Rest in Peace, New Vegas

a city destroyed by god knows what

[silk tide]

personally I lean something akin to DUST, or the tunnelers making it to the Mojave.

Primarily the latter since there’s a deathclaw skull and LR makes it clear the tunnelers are headed for the Mojave and can absolutely slap deathclaw

[errant crow]

It may have been simply Caesar's Legion trying to storm the city

WIth devastating consequences

[bronze jay]

Seen as the prydwen is in the show and it’s only 9 years after fallout 4 its possible for the sole survivor to be about right ? Especially bc he’s not a no one in the brotherhood

[glad canyon]

Just finished the first episode and it's sooo great.

[proper cave]

I'm like 50% convinced that ||Hank MacLean is in NV for Caesar's Legion||

I wrote a whole like 2000 word theory on reddit about this. their motives are literally the same

there are problems with it but the more I think about it the more it makes sense

[glad canyon]

I would like to wonder about the timing of the bombs in the show. It's always been Halloween time right?

[foggy fulcrum]

October 23rd, 2077

[visual night]

Oct. 23, 2077 at 9:42 AM

[visual night]

I dont think its the Prydwen Im gonna wait until they mention the name of it in the show.

[proper cave]

It says prydwen on it

was gonna send a screenshot but prime video is goofy. but it's at 36:27 in episode 1 that you can see the name Prydwen on it

[visual night]

Until its name is confirmed in the show IE one of the characters says the name of the airship. I will never beleive that its the Prydwen

[proper cave]

why lol

it's not like it's a reused asset. They clearly put the name Prydwen on it deliberately

as much as I love the show, there's a lot more non-sensical things that happened than the Prydwen magically being in California

such as Shady Sands being moved way down south from where it should be

[visual night]

it only says that in 4k. and I looked at the image where people says it says Prydwen and i dont see a dam thing that says Prydwen

[visual night]

Shady Sands has always moved. From Fallout 1 and 2 it moved locations

[proper cave]

it literally does?? I just rewatched the clip on prime 2 minutes ago

and I'm on a 1680x1050 monitor

literally cant type rn dang

[glad canyon]

How come in the show they happen in what looks like summer then?

[visual night]

Thats the question.

[foggy fulcrum]

From what I’m reading the classic games had made mistakes in regards to where specific locations are supposed to be.

[visual night]

I dont know what ya'll are seeing but it doesnt say prydwen

[foggy fulcrum]

Like between Fallout 1 and 2’s maps Shady Sands is not at the exact accurate location it was before from what I’m reading from people on Reddit

[proper cave]

I mean most of the dialogue seems to suggest Shady Sands was pretty much where it was supposed to be. the move between Fallout 1 and 2 tmk wasn't that drastic of a change. Either way I'm not gonna get pissed off at something as insignificant as Shady Sands' location

[proper cave]

I can literally DM you an image of where it says prydwen

It'd be a pic from my phone because Prime blocks videos and screenshots but still

[visual night]

My dms are closed for the foreseeable future

[proper cave]

then idk what to tell you man

it's very faint but it's 100% there

[foggy fulcrum]

All I know is that people are saying the maps regarding Fallout 1 and 2 Locations were rather iffy besides what dialogue suggested.

[proper cave]

I mean the games are old and map design is hard so I won't hold it against them. I still think moving it to LA is a bit odd but as I said idrc since it's not lore-breaking in the slightest

[foggy fulcrum]

Still poor Shady Sands, first the Cancelled Van Buren was gonna destroy it and now it’s finally destroyed.

[proper cave]

Playing Fallout 1 and seeing Shady Sands as a tiny little village is so weird knowing what would happen in the futre

[novel plank]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLS70NXWQAEYvOR?format=jpg&name=large

You can see it twice.

[novel plank]

If you haven't (and are interested), you should see how the loading screen maps of Azeroth in WarCraft 3 compare to the manual drawings from WarCrafts 1 and 2, and how insanely different all of those combined are to World of WarCraft - never mind the film or later game expansions also moving things around. Changes will be made as requirements necessitate, and Fallout is no different.

Tim Cain literally referred to it as 'Lore Drift' and he's one of Fallout's initial creators. He really enjoyed the series.

[little linden]

I don't think they actually moved it to LA. It seems to be further north. I think people assumed it's the crater visible from the observatory - but they don't match up

[novel plank]

Not necessarily, but in all the shots of Sandy Sands and sign outside the crater, LA is directly in the background. In the original maps of Fallout 1, Shady Sands is around 160-200 miles North and would not be visible.

Like this is a fanmade map but it is accurate(ish).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/887811243816144997/1236076738342289478/administrative-map-of-the-new-california-republic-in-2286-v0-upqpyjd38obb1.webp?ex=66375a6b&is=663608eb&hm=24a1acd8113263f46866ebb6ce408e6c09f78bc75d0675cfe1367eebc0c9426f&

Again though, narratively speaking, I really don't find this to be all that big deal unless you're hung up on details concerning the Master, which is understandable but does not change the overall narratives.

(Also that map is why arguments that "they've destroyed the NCR" fall flat to me. It's so large.)

[gray beacon]

The show is great but what was the point of the nudity in episode 6

|| It didn’t really add anything and I get that are a cult but it still was kinda weird even for fallout ||

[novel plank]

The point is to weird-out ||Lucy just as much.||

[red forge]

Well they ||lathered themselves with the paste form of the "cremations" of their dead. Cults do all sorts.||

It's a demonstration that ||there can be a seedy/dark side of a community that otherwise show themselves to be welcoming.||

[raven wolf]

Necropolis shouldn’t be its own state and that area should be replaced with the Lost Hills Chapter

[novel plank]

I said 'ish!' :P

[proper cave]

didnt todd howard say outright that the NCR still exists in other places?

or maybe it was somewhere else but I'm 90% sure it was confirmed in some sort of interview that the NCR is still very much alive

[novel plank]

He did indeed. Though, it seemed obvious even on first viewing - The NCR is not one town.

[little linden]

Oh I made one of those maps,I know the discrepancy.

But Idk the city seen beside shady sands is LA, there's no signs or landmarks. LA Is not the only city in the area and they had been walking north for over a day

[novel plank]

I recall it having the same skyline in various shots (though seen from different angles, admittedly) and you can even identify some of the buildings as the same ones from the intro when the bombs fall.

[little linden]

I'll double check but I don't think that's the case - there are no round buildings beside SS.

Tbh it kinda resembles the necropolis skyline from fallout 1

[novel plank]

It's not our reality's LA - but that version of LA shown in the intro has several unique buildings and they are repeatedly seen in the same configurations throughout the show. All throughout the time before release, the showrunners kept talking about how the show takes place around the LA area. ||Vaults 31/32/33|| are in Santa Monica, and LAX is in the background of episode 2... and of course, Hollywood, its presence shown in multiple episodes but most notably the last. It's just all LA.

[little linden]

Yeah but thats my point, those landmarks ||aren't seen around Shady Sands, or in the whole episode walking up to SS||

[novel plank]

I believe they are if you're looking at the buildings in the background, that's what I mean. The same buildings are constantly present - the show practically rotates around them as they visit various locations surrounding LA, but not really going so terribly far.

[glad canyon]

That's going to bother me now I hope they somehow sort that out. I really was wondering what was off about it and it's the lack of pumpkins and Halloween decor

[paper plume]

No, we can see it in this image that could be doctored. I looked on Amazon Prime and watched the episode and I could not see this. When I asked for time stamps last time, I was just shown this same image. So until we can actually see it in the source material (not something people are posting online), it's not the Prydwen.

Of course, maybe it's possible that you're not the same person who dodged the time stamp question before, maybe you can actually show the receipts.

[lusty lark]

Actually, he's not wrong. When I paused it at that exact moment (I re-watched the first season to make sure I didn't miss anything) It's definitely the Prydwen.

[lofty prairie]

Why ||Vault Boy blonde if Cooper isn't||

[sterile torrent]

||My theory is, when they ditched him as vault boy, then they wanted to the new spokesperson to be as far different from him as possible||

[lofty prairie]

Oh that's right! We haven't seen that unfold just yet

[lusty lark]

That's actually a very possible theory, one that definitely has merit. I can definitely dig it.

[paper plume]

Maybe, maybe not, but until somebody can provide the actual time stamp so anyone can check the source material... then it's just speculation

Because in the shot of the air ship I saw, nothing was written on the side

[visual night]

What is also off is that the time of the bombs. The bombs fell at 6:45 am in California. Who has a birthday party that early?

[lusty lark]

Ya know, that actually makes a LOT of sense. I'm guessing Amazon were either unaware about the actual time the bombs fell or the time the bombs fell was retconned? Who knows for certain.

[novel plank]

Episode One at 36:28.

There's another shot right before that one, too.

[shadow heath]

You can see it in the show. It's just very faint. Watch it on the highest settings, in full screen, preferably on a larger monitor and you'll be able to (barely) make out the name.

[lofty prairie]

its probably the prydwen because they are fitted with t-60 PA, if it werent the prydwen it would either not exist or they would have t-45

[proper cave]

bro it literally is

people not looking hard enough 😭 they're not gonna write prydwen in big bold white letters with a youtube clickbait ass lookin red arrow pointing at it. It's super small so if your screen is low res you won't see it, but it 100% says prydwen

[lofty prairie]

I thought they dropped at 9:45 or so

Yeah wiki (if true) says East Coast first at 9:42

[visual night]

california is 3 hours behind. If the bombs dropped 9:45 on the east cost it would be 6:45 on the west cost

[lofty prairie]

Ah timezones lol

[hollow sand]

Y'all ain't ever been to LA have ya? The most fall we get is a stiff breeze.

[lofty prairie]

Must've been the classic 6 am birthday party/cowboy show

[hollow sand]

It's practically always summer out here.

[visual night]

no but my uncle has though

[lofty prairie]

What if it was PM

Would explain all the skeletons in beds

And birthday party in west coast

[visual night]

The sun wasnt set, it looked like an afternoon birthday party

[hollow sand]

9:45 am/6:45 am, a lot of people would still be asleep. Plus, a lot of people crawled into the same bed once the news about the bombs dropped, so they could be together.

[hollow sand]

Yeah, the sun sets at around 5:40-6pm during fall/winter out here.

[lofty prairie]

Well if it was 6:42 pm in October there wouldn't be a sunset yet 🤔

[hollow sand]

Oh yes, there would be.

[visual night]

maybe amazon got it wrong

[hollow sand]

Or, maybe you could take the word of a person who actually lives in LA?

[lofty prairie]

Looked it up, yep sun sets at 6:02 or so in late October

[hollow sand]

So, just like said?

[lofty prairie]

It's the first scene though 😆 I'm trying to make it make sense

[lofty prairie]

Yes but more importantly it's backed by science

[hollow sand]

Are you for real right now? Jeebus

[torpid ermine]

They play loose with the exact time but the date is right
Could also be that his memory was off and he's an unreliable narrator, which would be very cool

[lofty prairie]

Lol I don't trust strangers on the Internet my bad

[lofty prairie]

I can work with this

[hollow sand]

Nah, you're just being salty

[lofty prairie]

Live your truth

🤙

[hollow sand]

First of all, the placement of the sun is correct for 6:45am, as it was toward the left of the Hollywood hills, if it was later in the day, it would be on the right of the hills

[quick coral]

lol thats next level looking into it

[torpid ermine]

But it was starting to become dark and the sun was setting by the time the nukes dropped

[quick coral]

i wouldnt set the expectation of time like that haha, that's too much 🤣

[hollow sand]

If the city is on Coop's left, the Pacific Ocean would be on his right, which is where the sun sets.

It was not getting dark, there were/are a lot of trees in the hills, they were literally in the shade of trees, and later, the overhang of the roof from the house.

[torpid ermine]

It just makes the most sense, like even the time is technically off in Fallout 4(besides the fact that Nate himself was unreliable and the theory of him being a Synth)

[quick coral]

i looove that they use the unreliable narrator idea

[torpid ermine]

I'm pretty sure all flashbacks to the day the nukes dropped is going to be unreliable, it's been 200 years I'm pretty sure everyone's memory on it is crap

[hollow sand]

When Coop is riding off towards the city the entire sky is blue, and he is facing the sun, which appears on the left side of the screen.

[lofty prairie]

John Fallout (Nate) is absolutely a ||synth he uses vats without a pipboy in the beginning|| 👀

[hollow sand]

You really don't need to be an astronomist to figure out the placement of the sun in the sky and its correlation to the time of day

[torpid ermine]

I think that was an oversight moreso than evidence but i can get why people think so

[hollow sand]

I love how y'all are ignoring the simplest of science here, lol

[lofty prairie]

I like the conspiracy lol I'm a sucker for them like the Simulation Theory for 76 and very unrelated but worth mentioning Indoctrination Theory for Mass Effect

[hollow sand]

Also, none of what we saw of Coop's Pre-Bomb life was flashbacks. Jonathan Nolan likes to play with multiple ongoing timelines in his shows. So we're jumping from Pre-Bomb to their Modern day to show the concurrent timelines.

[quick coral]

ooh i havent looked into indoctrination theory ill look it up

[torpid ermine]

That jump is called a flashback

[hollow sand]

No, it is not

A flashback is a memory

You're seeing the memory through the eyes of the character

What's going on here, is that there are two storylines, one is current, the other past. The past storyline is showing us the background behind what's happening in the current storyline.

[torpid ermine]

A flashback (sometimes called an analepsis) is an interjected scene that takes the narrative back in time from the current point in the story. Flashbacks are often used to recount events that happened before the story's primary sequence of events to fill in crucial backstory.

[hollow sand]

Albeit, but they're not unreliable, as we aren't seeing them through his eyes. We're seeing what happened and what has caused what they're dealing with now.

[torpid ermine]

A storyline would also show the sights of other characters, all the ones we see is from Cooper himself

[hollow sand]

They've literally said as much in interviews

[hollow sand]

Yes, that's what Season 2 is for.

You need to watch Westworld, because you clearly do not understand how Jonathan Nolan sets up his timelines

The first season is set up the exact same way as Fallout is.

The characters in the current setting are moving toward a breakpoint, while we get to jump back and see all of what's led up to that.

They can't show everything in one season, there needs to be mystery about Hank's life, Coop's Wife and Daughter.

Who's pulling the strings? Did you expect them to show you everything in one go?

[torpid ermine]

All of this to say that they had a 6 am birthday party? Lol

I also don't think there's any reliability in trying to claim who dropped the bombs or what time it dropped because they'd be setting themselves up for failure, various games have different times and theories as to who dropped it

It's better as a blur

[hollow sand]

Which for some reason, some of you are having trouble understanding that that's a thing when the sun sets at 6pm on the west coast during October

[hollow sand]

Oh, we for sure don't know who actually dropped the bomb. We have no actual proof that Vault Tec did. All we know, because it's all we've been shown, is that they discussed doing it.

That's neither confirmation or denial. Simply showing us, that they were willing.

[visual night]

in the Intro for Fallout 4 we see the T-60 power Armor and the Prydwen didnt exist then

[hollow sand]

They say in the show, and in F4 that the T60 had a minor roll out right before the bombs dropped.

[lofty prairie]

T60 did exist it was only implemented stateside before the bombs fell

[hollow sand]

And the Prydwen is a post bomb creation, it's clearly salvaged parts built into a dirigible

[visual night]

Some of the parts of the Prydwen was stolen from Rivet City

[hollow sand]

Exactly

There's only one of those ships, they say that in F4 too. Given the show takes place a few years after the game, it makes sense that it's the same ship.

[torpid ermine]

In fallout new vegas it fell during the gala event tho

[hollow sand]

The gala event was the grand opening for a casino, no?

In Vegas, soft opens happen at night, grand openings happen early in the morning so they bring guests in.

Why would they open a casino at night, and lose all that money

[lofty prairie]

Did Bethesda say NV was 100% canon?

[torpid ermine]

Yep

[hollow sand]

Todd has said in like five different interviews that it is undeniably completely canon.

[lofty prairie]

Interesting. And Fallout Tactics?

[hollow sand]

Tactics and Brotherhood are non-canon

[lofty prairie]

Interesting. And Fallout Shelter?

[hollow sand]

From what I understand, it isn't either.

[lofty prairie]

Interesting. And Fallout Pinball?

[torpid ermine]

Yeah it was at night and they had fireworks, remember?

The bombing also lasted for 2 hours too

I don't think they'd launch fireworks at the crack of dawn that'd be a bit dumb idk

[hollow sand]

Damn, you're right, I forgot about the fireworks. I can't give you an estimated guess there, because it's weird. All I can say is, is that House worked it out that Vegas and the surrounding areas wouldn't get too damaged.

[hollow sand]

No, you're smack on with that one. I can only guess that they were meant for that night, or, it's unreliable.

Todd and Nolan have both spoken about how the opening of the show is canon to what happened to LA.

I know Tim Caine has said that the map for F1 and F2 were incorrect with the placements of some places so everything wasn't jammed together

His YouTube channel is amazing, btw

[torpid ermine]

100% canon, especially when you use the pinball to wack a supermutant on the head

[lofty prairie]

I knew it

[torpid ermine]

I like the idea that it's unreliable, especially considering that during the scene where vault tec is talking, the response of the others is muted

While he is sitting there stunned, so we don't get to hear what they say, but it seemed like pushback

[hollow sand]

We definitely don't know everything, and yeah, him going into shock and the resulting tinnitus was a definite move to keep us out of the loop.

[torpid ermine]

Also shows his point of view, can we really trust him? He has been shown to not really be trustworthy or the most outright person

[hollow sand]

I'm not sure, having watched Westworld which plays with pov and timelines/storylines in weird ways, that all of the scenes were necessarily from his POV

[torpid ermine]

People's memories are also pretty crap haha

[hollow sand]

However, I definitely think most were

The bit with the suit and photoshoot, the party, him listening in.

The meeting, and the shooting of the vault ads, and the first scene are the only ones that don't necessarily feel like they are.

[torpid ermine]

I feel like it's that he gets the very emotional stuff misconstrued and the basic facts and etc right though

[hollow sand]

Definitely, which is why I don't doubt the first scene. It's not as emotionally framed.

[torpid ermine]

I think the opposite

[hollow sand]

I mean, it's not impossible, and I think that may be the point. But also, I can agree that the exact time everything happened has always been kind of off

[digital copper]

no, they were taken "from an aircraft carrier" under entirely unspecified circumstances. i honestly sincerely doubt the brotherhood would steal from or massacre Rivet City considering they were a major trade partner and they had numerous recruits originating from there, including Danse, who gives no indication of any sort of conflicted loyalties to the Brotherhood (yes I know ||his memories are fake, they're only fake up to his adulthood in Rivet City and joining the Brotherhood; man was an escapee Pinkerton & the Railroad helped)||

[hollow sand]

Rivet City was built inside of a beached aircraft carrier in the Potomac River. And in F3, they mention that the BoS and an unknown player are both threatening them over some kind of tech they apparently have.

[digital copper]

I don't recall them mentioning the BOS threatening them at all, but by all means if I'm wrong I'm happy to be disproven

[hollow sand]

One of the missions from the BoS is to retrieve the synth by any means necessary.

It's where you can make one of the biggest decisions in the game in letting the synth go, or handing him over to his creators, or to the BoS

[digital copper]

also worth noting its built out of half of an aircraft carrier, the other half is sunken halfway into the river and notably still has power, suggesting thats where the reactor is

[digital copper]

and you are totally misremembering, the BOS has no involvment in the Replicated Man quest

[hollow sand]

I might be...

[digital copper]

your options in that quest are lying to the Institute Rep or turning Harkness in, with the additional wrinkle of having the option to unlock Harkness's memories

The BOS by all accounts has no real knowledge of synths or opinions on them during FO3

which, fwiw, never even used the term "synth", they only ever called Harkness an "android" XD

[little linden]

Yeah and Broken Steel would indicate they had closer ties with time.

[digital copper]

and like I pointed out, Danse ||believes that he|| grew up there, and he joined the Brotherhood as an Initiate during or just before the events of Fallout 3, losing his instructor Paladin Krieg in the battle at Adams AFB in Broken Steel. you'd think that his ||believed|| past and origins in the settlement would lead to, IDK, some kind of doubt or outrage if they attacked or otherwise wronged the place, or at least a mention while he talks about growing up there

[torpid ermine]

Dp you guys think we'll ever get the mysterious stranger in the show? Lol

[proper cave]

I kinda hope not

[torpid ermine]

Just as a little blip in the show would be cool lol

[proper cave]

Definitely not in the same role he plays in the games but maybe

[torpid ermine]

Maybe some guy at the bar who helps kill someone with one shot in the same getup and then when they turn to go look at him he's gone

[little linden]

think it would be difficult to do well for non game playing audiences

[proper cave]

I'd rather a very brief dialogue cameo

You can have dialogue while keeping someone mysterious

[lofty prairie]

All of those synths or just one? Maybe

[proper cave]

but they can't say the words "mysterious stranger" or it will kill the entire moment 😔

[torpid ermine]

Like "some mysterious stranger helped me one day when i was about to die, all it took him was one shot to knock down the guy and when I went to go thank him he was gone" ?

[proper cave]

no like have him actually briefly show up and speak

[torpid ermine]

Hell naw, he better never speak

Not mysterious

[proper cave]

it'd work a hell of a lot better than him just randomly showing up to shoot somebody as far as I'm concerned. and like I said you can 100% keep the mystique around someone even if they speak

[visual night]

''Fr: Proctor Ingram IG-444PR
To: Elder Maxson MX-001E
As you know, in order to get the Prydwen rapidly to the Commonwealth, I had my engineering team pull her older power plant and replace it with an updated fusion plant we pulled from that aircraft carrier wreckage. I was able to squeeze almost one hundred percent efficiency from the new reactor, but the system is burning through our coolant supply faster than expected.
As we've been docked over the airport, I've been able to deactivate the main engines to cool down the reactor, but we're still eating up coolant when we're in hover mode. We're eventually going to hit a point where we'll run out of coolant. If that happens, we'll need to put the Prydwen on the ground. I desperately need your help if you want to prevent that from happening. I'll be certain to provide you with the details at our next briefing.''

[proper cave]

it's all about good writing and execution

[torpid ermine]

Of course

[lofty prairie]

I could see him find himself in a high noon western style standoff thing with Ghoul and the tune play but they just walk away from each other

[torpid ermine]

That'd be pretty fire

Or maybe that's who he got his gun from?

[proper cave]

I imagine him randomly giving Lucy some profound piece of advice in a bar before vanishing without a trace the moment she looks away

[visual night]

The only aircraft carrier in the Capital Wasteland is Rivet City

[torpid ermine]

Or was inspired by 🤔

[foggy fulcrum]

I mean I also doubt we’ll get Aliens since I feel that’s more suited towards side game content in the games and not so much the show where the characters and the world itself is the focus.

[lofty prairie]

||Headless dude|| already did that at the campfire though 🫤

[torpid ermine]

I swear there were some at the Airforce base no?

[digital copper]

yeah, again, read the rest of my comments. there's nothing in there suggesting they stole from/massacred Rivet City and a lot to suggest otherwise. not the least of which being that Rivet City is split in half and the uninhabited half still has power, and that Brotherhood recruits pulled from Rivet City's population seem to have absolutely no beef with the organization

[lofty prairie]

Alien cameo like a smoking flying saucer in the sky for one scene that goes unnoticed by the characters would be tight

[torpid ermine]

Maybe as a joke or side discussion with some highway looney
"Dude I was abducted by aliens man, and some samurai guy was there with me I swear, but yeah can you get me some jet man?"

[foggy fulcrum]

Cameo sure that’s fine, but I wouldn’t expect it to be a focus whatsoever, what is clear is the US Government knew about Zetans and the fact you can find comics with a clear likeness on it suggests that to also be the case.

[torpid ermine]

Or we see a UFO in the background lol

[proper cave]

quick side note but I still have not seen anyone talk about how eerily aligned ||Hank MacLean's|| and Caesar's motives for their actions are

both of them are trying to eliminate war and conflict by creating a single homogenous people group. It's just their execution and vision for what that people group looks like that makes them different

[torpid ermine]

They're both bigots in positions of power that they don't really deserve and see themselves as an enlightening point of society

[visual night]

Aircraft Carrier. not Aircraft

[proper cave]

Caesar is a lot more complex of a character than just being a ruthless dictator. He is one but a very very well written one

[lofty prairie]

I think all groups want that lol

[torpid ermine]

I was thinking of the mobile base crawler

[proper cave]

all groups want power, but they dont share the same philosophy as those two characters

Caesar's and ||Hank MacLean's|| entire thing is that there cant be conflict as long as the entire wasteland is homogenized under a single group. Other groups like the NCR have sought domination over their surrounding territories, but hardly with that specific philosophy/idea in mind

[visual night]

Its just the bow thats broken.

[torpid ermine]

The BOS is the same, they only really want non-ghoul or non-mutated humans in the wasteland

[proper cave]

that's not necessarily the same. The execution may be; the core motives are not

[torpid ermine]

BOS are more dishonest and deceptive about it tbh. They seek like a puppet control of the wasteland

While staying in the back

[proper cave]

BOS seeks de jure rule is the impression I always got. They're not "in control" but they're basically in control

[torpid ermine]

Agreed

The Legion, Enclave, and VT are much more outright about it

NCR is just a government, I'm pretty sure they don't care about people and things who play nice, ghouls and supermutants alike

[proper cave]

I like to imagine that the NCR was always moreso just a bunch of government LARPers harrassing local settlements than an actual government people respect and look to for guidance

[torpid ermine]

I kinda disagree, they had a nice grip and laws + currency for a while, maybe that applies to areas outside of their immediate jurisdiction or unoccupied areas

[proper cave]

there were definitely many who did respect the NCR but even in the areas closer to Shady Sands than New Vegas I know there was a lot of dissentment. I haven't played as much fallout 2 though and I'm not as familiar with the lore in the western NCR so idk

[errant crow]

||Well, it its almost directly confirmed that the Enclave and Vaults 33-32-31 were closely connected. Enclave defector knew lot of details about Vault 33 and Lucy||

[errant crow]

NCR is indeed a government. However it is a coalition govornment, made out of cooperation and agreements for the mutual good of settlements and cities comprising the NCR. And that's what differentiates it from factions, that are dedicated to seeing some ideology, however misguided it may be, is turned into reality (too often with the caveat "whatever the cost would be"). And it's also one of the few major factions who do allow ghouls and those suffering bodily mutations but sane in mind to live as equal inhabitants to normal humans. For example ||if we take Vault 4's case from the TV show, should the Enclave or BoS find and capture that community, most or all (in case of Enclave) of it's inhabitants would get killed. NCR would do no such atrocity||

[torpid ermine]

Agreed

[waxen silo]

I'm not sure about the || Enclave part. It does feels to me that Wilzig might have been alive pre-bomb. And maybe even in cryosleep with Moldaver. Maybe even worked in the same company as Moldaver. ||

[novel plank]

||The Enclave and Vault-Tec go hand-in-hand. In the games one can take the information available and almost conclude that Vault-Tec was merely the Enclave's public face, they were so entwined.||

[proper cave]

and they may have been connected. obviously caesar isnt directly involved with vault 33, but his motives do seem to be incredibly close to what we now know vault-tec's to be

[teal dune]

So, does the show canonize ||BoS surviving Fallout 4?||

[iron vector]

This is not reflected in the lore, though. What so hard to believe about an actual grassroots government forming?

[sharp berry]

? They take place on opposite sides of the country

[teal dune]

If I'm not mistaken, ||Elder Cleric Quintus mentioned clerics 'from the commonwealth'||

[iron vector]

He did.

[teal dune]

||"Our mission comes from the highest clerics in the Commonwealth. It is believed that a denizen of the Enclave has escaped." This could possibly mean the western Commonwealth.||

...i'm quoting a character

[sharp berry]

Automod dgaf

[teal dune]

||"This f&&king place. There's always something to ruin your f&&kin' day. This wasteland f&&king sucks. The clerics, too. With their bulls&&t. Sending me on stupid missions for remnants that turn out to be a f&&king toaster oven." Knight Titus seems familiar with the clerics, so they could be west coast.||

[teal dune]

Knight Titus joins Bethesda discord, instantly gets banned

[proper cave]

I don't doubt that they actual were very established out in the east, but I just find it funny how many civilians in NV can't look past the taxes

[lofty prairie]

experimental t-60 existed on the east coast prewar, the brotherhood prydwen uses t-60 exclusively because they are able to build it (and refined the design i believe). if it were another airship created elsewhere they wouldnt be able to either scavenge any t-60 or be able to find any. for the brotherhood to have a full loadout of t-60 it is either the prydwen or it is another airship recently built that came from the capital wasteland

[lofty prairie]

government larpers but they have nationwide elections. a standing army with miltary bases, forward camps, military doctrine, artillery, aircraft etc... . seemingly have industrial facilities that are working. hold alliances with other communities and nations. trade with other communities and nations. levy taxes and tariffs. protect citizens from raiders (the best they can...) have the capability to fly prewar aircraft and by extent i assume they can operate land vehicles.

but im sure people dont respect them and they are just harrasing people for money...

[vernal tulip]

Is it actually the Prydwin in the TV show? I haven’t had a close enough look myself, but I’ve heard people say it is.

[little linden]

2 as I remember portrays them as fairly popular and benevolent but chafing from the big ranchers influence. - also their laws are only fully enforced within the core city walls. But that's more just a fact of postwar governments not being modern states

[novel plank]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLS70NXWQAEYvOR?format=jpg&name=large

Episode One at 36:28.

[silent summit]

Okay so is it just me or does the way the squires hold the bags seem off?

[soft magnet]

But here's the thing, if you look closely and compare the fallout TVs prydwen with the Fallout 4 prydwen they are different in a few ways, one that was noticed by a lot of people is the BOS logo being on the opposite side of the Prydwen title, that and also people found out the Prydwen in the show is actually called the "Caswennan"

That and it looks like they are different models... I wouldn't be surprised if this is the west coasts Prydwen that The east Coast BOS in fallout 4 was talking about

[iron vector]

Prydwen in Fo4 is unique. Nothing quite like it.

[novel plank]

Caswennan was clearly a deflection, I thought it was called that too during the preview interviews - yet that's a totally new model built uniquely for the series that is much, much higher polygon count and resolution than a copy-past from the game, and they called it Prydwen in that and the shot previous to it.
It's literally in the show.

Just watch it there, I even provided a time stamp. Not even sure why people need this to not be the case.

[soft magnet]

But still I highly doubt it is the same Prydwen from fallout 4 and Bethesda even said in an interview they are trying not to confirm an ending for 4 or new Vegas and are trying to avoid that, I highly doubt they'd break that rule they promised with confirming the BOS in fallout 4 survived the events of FO4

And even then wouldn't elder Maxon be in charge still considering he holds more power then the elder in the show, Maxson is a more confident and brute leader he'd be more fit as the bos leader in the show then the elder we were given if this is the fallout 4 prydwen

[novel plank]

If the Brotherhood is alive that means you either sided with them or did a variant of the Minuteman - it doesn't outright confirm the state of things, other than when the leader shown in the series says "These orders come from the highest ranking Clerics of the Commonwealth," so the Brotherhood are still very active in the region 9 years later. Limits our options. Maxson's East Coast BoS has a lot of new ranks (Proctor, etc.) and he could delegate things to these apparent Clerics.

[soft magnet]

Still doesn't make sense if you played fallout 4 though, maxson and a lot of the BOS thinks the west coast is weak, them simply handing it over to them is very unlikely, Maxson simply wouldn't just hand over a Prydwen from his chapter to another, I can see them giving the west coast schematics to make it themselves, but simply taking the east coast BOS's Prydwen is very unlikely and the only logical explanation if it was the east coast BOS's Prydwen is that the BOS Chapter in the show had a civil war scenario with maxsons bos, which btw would have most likely weaken the east coast BOS's presence in the east coast, and would be easy picking for the enclave, a Militarized minutemen, or remnants of the institute

Or the nuka world Raiders if the Sole Survivor did sided with the Raiders and the east coast bos is weakened due to a civil war they'd be screwed

[novel plank]

Who is to say Maxson hasn't been working to reunify the BoS and reclaim the West Coast? Clearly there's more than one logical outcome, especially since it's been almost a decade and a lot can change in that time for everyone.

And look, I'm not even trying to argue with you, I'm just saying what is literally in the show. There isn't much else that can be done by anyone at this point but to accept it and wait to see what new information comes in the next season - theory-crafting up reasons to provide flimsy denials for what's right there on the screen won't change it.

[little linden]

Quinlan's terminal practically downright states the West is already loyal to Maxson by the time of 4, to an extreme degree: ' He has the full support of the Elders back on the West Coast, who have proudly reported that they've begun eradicating cults that have popped up, worshipping Maxson as though he's some kind of god. Maxson himself is almost offended by the idea of being referred to as a deity, as it goes against everything he believes in.

its possible they dont even consider it distinct organizations, - therefore it would simply still be their ship.

[teal dune]

Damn, so what happened to whole 'Caswennan' thing?

[teal dune]

Still makes sense to me that Maxson would remain in the East Coast either way

I think there's wiggle room, and Commonwealth doesn't always mean Boston

[novel plank]

My best guess is it was misdirection on the part of the creatives (very common practice, really) to prevent people from putting together plot elements from the trailers alone and to surprise us.

[teal dune]

So, they canonized Fo4 BoS survival?

[soft magnet]

Not really Bethesda said they don't wanna Connonize an ending for FONV or FO4, It's pretty obvious though that the institute is destroyed, but it's not confirmed who did it, the most likely candidate would be the minutemen ending... Like I said before there is no proof that this is the same Prydwen we see in fallout 4 and is most likely a different version, Nothing is confirmed yet, I highly doubt it will until the last season which I am already predicting the west coast Prydwen will be destroyed by some faction or group

[zealous moth]

Dude season 2 should have a Deathclaw

[soft magnet]

They already confirmed that they are gonna make an appearance

[zealous moth]

I saw somewhere its minute men but they just don’t blow up the prydenwin or kill the railroad 🤷

[soft magnet]

Railroad are either disbanded or Destroyed, that's a safe assumption

East coast BOS is a mystery but if we were to canonize what most people believe is the cannon ending for FO4 the minutemen destroyed both the BOS and institute

And then there's Nuka World which is also a mystery and plot hole in terms of what ending is cannon

[zealous moth]

Oh damn

[soft magnet]

Because and I'm just gonna say this now, if the sole Survivor joined the Nuka World Raiders and is now a Raider overlord then I highly doubt anyone rules the Commonwealth and it's runned by the Nuka world Raiders sorta like the Pitt situation in a way

To put it short if the sole Survivor did choose the Nuka world Raiders that would most likely mean all factions in the Commonwealth are gone/destroyed or at least their presence in the region is very weak

Which if they do decide to make that ending cannon it's basically playing it safe in terms of what ending in FO4 is cannon, because in the end no faction rules the Commonwealth, only the raiders do

[novel plank]

Yes, which can happen in a few endings so they haven't 'canonized' anything overly specific. The lead cleric does say that the orders to hunt down ||Wilzig|| are a priority that comes directly from the Commonwealth. Given that only one signficant place in post-war America is called as such, and it is 9 years later, then the Brotherhood has some kind of notable presence in the Boston region, and it is evidently a commanding one if they're giving orders from across the continent.

[teal dune]

Not necessarily, a stalemate between Minutemen Railroad and BoS is possible

The Minutemen have artillery, literally the one thing that can take down the BoS

[novel plank]

Heck, they don't really have any beef and could potentially be friendly. It's up to the player what they want to see happen to them when going the Minuteman route.

[teal dune]

Yeah, I'm more talking about how the Minutemen could become the primary Commonwealth faction

Beloved for taking down the Institute, capable of destroying the Brotherhood

[novel plank]

Oh for sure.

[little linden]

Maybe the Sole Survivor just messed around in Sanctuary and hasn't finished the main quest yet.

[novel plank]

Brotherhood doesn't show up in the Commonwealth until Kellogg dies. :P

[soft magnet]

My head cannon is the minutemen destroys the institute and bos, Takes in Institute Refugees like scientists and what not and in exchange those scientists help with the Minutemens development like in terms of tech, Due to the BOS and institutes destruction it resorts in the minutemen becoming stronger as pre-war documents from the bos are extracted and in minutemen hands, the institute scientists who were willing to cooperate with the minutemen development tech for them, and I also like to think the automaton dlc has a huge role in the Minutemens growth as they create robot helpers/laborers and Infintry

The minutemen then rebuilds the Commonwealth by rebuilding a bunch of locations in the Commonwealth for settlements and even retake all of the Boston city area and building a wall around it killing all raiders, gunners and mutants and making Boston A rebuilt City Utopia for wastelanders to live in

Basically Minutemen are the new NCR sorta scenario (even having their own militarized uniforms and what not)

[teal dune]

Personally I like the Minutemen being a bit different from the NCR

The NCR are trying to rebuild america as it was, bringing back everything from elections to robber barons to imperialism

My view of the Minutemen is inspired by a quote from Moira Brown

"Did you ever try to put a broken piece of glass back together? Even if the pieces fit, you can't make it whole again the way it was. But if you're clever, you can still use the pieces to make other useful things. Maybe even something wonderful, like a mosaic. Well, the world broke just like glass. And everyone's trying to put it back together like it was, but it'll never come together the same way."

It's also part of why I don't destroy the Prydwen. Dooming the Commonwealth to another war, this time with the Brotherhood, is simply not an option. And neither is putting in place a facade of 'democracy'

[soft magnet]

Well I destroyed the BOS for a few reasons and in my head it made sense

1. The bos ask you to pillage farms for food for the bos and in order to do that you have to threaten the farmers to give their crops to the BOS
2. The bos don't really care about the people and only themselves and their interests
3. Everyone in the Commonwealth including the minutemen hates the BOS and much rather they either leave or he destroyed
4. The BOS want to eliminate ghouls and synths regardless of if their good or bad which, to the point they want you to kill their most loyal soldier danse, which the whole Kill synths and ghouls and mutants regardless of dangerous or not is against what the minutemen stands for
5. One way or another the BOS will find a way to start a war with the minutemen due to their growth and to have full control over the Commonwealth and reshape it in their own image

Which is why I destroyed them because the BOS are just raiders but with powerful tech and act all military