starfield-lore

[peak halo]

Maybe proxima got eaten by toliman

[tropic yacht]

Three dudes in a shed is allowed, but the governments of the treaty are just, like, forever disallowed from ever expanding?

Again, who cares? Paradiso is not going to expand out into a whole colony, it;s a private beach resort.

I'm talking actual human progress, yknow, EXPANSION, the REASON you colonize space, to spread out humanity

[peak halo]

It would take some negotiation, but they might be able to expand their territory

[faint cave]

The Failure to Communicate mission has four (now three) groups of people settling into a system. All of them combined have enough men and ships to make a small fleet.

[tropic yacht]

At that rate why have the rule at all? Why ever incorporate the treaty into the lore when it serves no purpose?

[tropic yacht]

Yeah, A singular fleet
I.e, worthless.

[peak halo]

Honestly, given the population we see in the game... No real need to expand to new systems when you aren't fully utilizing the ones you have.

[tropic yacht]

Like imagine the serveral thousands, possibly millions of settlers stuck on the big three colonized worlds. They're supposed to never leave?

[tropic yacht]

Bethesda issue, just because it doesnt render many people doesnt mean the numbers dont exist. Its suspension of disbelief

Or do we genuinely believe that most Bethesda cities are literal ghost towns?

[faint cave]

I mean we managed to fit several billion into one planet.

[tropic yacht]

Yeah then it got hit with solar radiation, or whatever. Something something 'eggs in one basket'

From a writing standpoint, not a worldbuilding one, why have the rule? What does it do for the story?

[maiden dew]

My understanding is that the cities and population are a tenth of their real size

[faint cave]

The UC are vindictive jerks

[peak halo]

It would take negotiations between the three legally recognized factions (one of which barely operates within the settled systems), years, possibly decades, of red tape, and mountains of legal fees (paid for by your taxes). Negotiating a treaty of that scale and authority is not a simple matter.

[tropic yacht]

That's actual a reasonable estimate, i would say

[tropic yacht]

It's just a bizzare rule, that I imagine was done to explain why all the handcrafted cities (a beach resort is not a city) are all in one place. Like

Imagine you're playing Skyrim, and Whiterun, Windhelm and Solitude are the ONLY major cities

"Oh we signed a treaty not to expand, sorry"

[peak halo]

Okay then, what, no more than 5k in New Atlantis? I doubt there's even 500 NPCs in new Atlantis.

[tropic yacht]

So half the map is empty, with just bandit caves and a couple inns

[faint cave]

They know their residents can still colonize other worlds through LIST and have the Vanguard not so subtly protect them. It's just petty politics, at least to me.

[tropic yacht]

Again, from a writing perspective. I dont care if its easy to make a shack, from the perspective of governments and cities not expanding out and instead choosing strict isolation, it's just poor writing.

Because that;s not how human colonization works, you need big backing structures and a lot of funding to make the sorts of colonies that do anything

A couple shacks and dens (which are immediately going to get raided btw) are never going to build up human presence much at all

[maiden dew]

Suspension of disbelief. It is already annoying to run a kilometer. How much worse would it be to have city 10x the size?

[tropic yacht]

Look at America, that was several batches of hundreds of people moving in at once, setting up huge colonies with frequent supply lines, not a hundred SEPERATE colonies (made up of one/two ppl) each making their own shack in the woods

[peak halo]

So... You are arguing against limiting the space settled because it takes a lot of logistics to set up a colony? That seems contradictory.

If it takes 100+ years to set up a colony, why do you need more than 3 systems?

[tropic yacht]

Long term goals, obviously
Yknow, betterment of the human race and all that

[mint smelt]

good morning folks

[tropic yacht]

It's basically the Skyrim example, you get three cities with the only explanation being "its better this way because none of us will fight now"

Which means you miss out on the narrative that all the other cities held, their prominence in the story, their use in the wider political game

[faint cave]

Because obviously politicians care about long term goals

[high copper]

Meta wise, having towns and full settlements spawn around in each factions systems can be helpful

[tropic yacht]

Politicians like living in a rich, well off system, productivity is good. Plus the colonization of those empty worlds would be blameless. Wouldnt it be more financially rewarding to expand aggresively instead of sit in stagnation?

MORE humans means more taxes

[faint cave]

After a war when emotions were still running high and the UC were humiliated because even though they won the military war, they were forced to stop?

My point is that the UC clearly weren't thinking in the long term when they demanded that deal. Or at all, probably. Politicians.

[tropic yacht]

True but... Like what?

"We've finally beaten the axis powers, this is the end of the second world war, and we officially declare that humanity will promise to never at all ever again attempt space colonization"

That's insane logic

[peak halo]

Well, firstly, Morthal would be one of the cities, in all honesty, solitude would be the least likely to be a major player, as it is significant younger than windhlem, Whiterun and Morthal.

In addition, there are three settlements in Cheyenne, Two in Alpha Centauri and Sol, one in Volii and Valo,

[faint cave]

Bold of you to assume they are thinking of the betterment of the human race. Look at Ron Hope. At least the current batch of UC leaders seem reasonable.

[tropic yacht]

I used those three because they're the Imperials, Stormcloaks and the kinda nuetral middle ground. Not because of size

A village vs a settlement, you're missing the point here

NARRATIVE importance of the cities is my arguement.

[peak halo]

But it's not 'humanity will never again attempt space colonization'. It's literally 'We won't expand our borders in hopes of avoiding another war to end all wars, if you also don't expand your borders to avoid another war to end all wars.'

[tropic yacht]

Ugh like talking to a brick wall

[peak halo]

Hmm... That's not nice

[tropic yacht]

That's a fair point

Well I concede, the writing in Starfield makes perfect sense then

[stark shuttle]

It boils down to the UC didn't want The FC to expand because the more they expanded, the more chance people would leave the UC to join them. So in order to legitimise them not expanding they had to agree to not expand either.

[peak halo]

Also, as an FYI, IRL, within about 150 years, america had 13 formal colonies. That's with the established logistics of England funding the expansion.

The issue with starfields colonies is, they didn't have the established logistics of a nation to fund their expansion. It would be like if you and your extended family set out into the wilds and decided to set up a town in a remote area, with enough natural resources they survive, possibly even thrive, but nearly nothing in the ways of a support network.

Humanity has been in the settled systems for 174 years by the time the game starts

Of which, they only had about 50 years to establish settlements outside of earth, and so they founded new Atlantis to be the seat of the United colonies.

50 years isn't enough to establish an advanced enough logistics system to transport everything/one needed off earth.
The likelihood is, not many people made it off earth, id say probably no more than 100 mil (unless Godd Howard has anything to say)

Narion doesn't actually have any settlements.
It has a space station, like wolf.

Yeah, like Wolf

Though the Den is much smaller

[stark shuttle]

Stroud Eckland i believe

[torn ember]

nah stroud ecklund is in a freestar system

wolf just has the den and the old den

oh mb lol i misread

the remains of dr orlase

[daring lake]

Stroud-Ekland + The Clinic are both in Narion

[torn ember]

ok thats right. i was just getting annoyed earlier about how S-E staryard obscures dalvik on the map

[daring lake]

... along with 1 of a Kind Salvage

[indigo nymph]

I'm guessing you didn't read my whole comment then if the only thing you focus on is NASA. The only thing about the lore of Starfield not covered in the 5 minute Vanguard hall lore dump is answered by the NASA mission

[faint cave]

Does that include Nishina, ECS Constant, and Charybdis?

[daring lake]

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[mint smelt]

hahahah

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-life-brian-romans-rome-gif-11986505

[broken flower]

brought peace ?

[hybrid axle]

Oh yeah, that whole Nasa section is ...

https://tenor.com/view/kisschef-gif-14420933369313685039

[pastel bolt]

Aye! Que Cosa ? How you no like a da Pizza

[orchid juniper]

I got an idea for a crossover. The Creators are the Dwemer. The Milky Way is where they got poofed to during the Battle of Red Mountain

[unique urchin]

Its on Volii

[cerulean plaza]

The offices are, but the Staryard is by Deepala in the Narion system

[maiden dew]

Stroud-Eckland is the one Ship manufacturer that has two locations to build ships. There's the showroom on Neon and the Shipyard in Narion.

[weak hemlock]

S-E is the manu to go for for your workshop hab if you're gonna install one. They are the only manu that has the research station in the workshop hab, meaning 4 of the 5 most used stations are right there.

[sand spruce]

I love Nova Galactic's All-In-One for having the research station, bed, and galley conveniently right there (it looks like Frontier's too, if you're a bit homesick for that, lol) and means you don't need that S-E hab, but it is very, very nice to have it there with the others.
I just wish the pharmacy lab didn't require its own hab.

[faint cave]

I believe Deimos has the research station in there as well.

Why did Nova Galactic go bankrupt, anyway? They couldn't keep up with costs?

[weak hemlock]

Not to my knowledge. I checked all of them a while back around release and S-E was the only one, unless they changed it. May have just missed it if it doesn't look like the others.

[weak hemlock]

No, you're right, that one is conveinent too. I just like having the 4 stations I use the most in one room since I tend to spend most of my time on my ship floating around the Beyond.

[faint cave]

No, it does indeed have a research lab. I just checked my ship which has a Deimos Workshop on it. What it doesn't have is a pharma lab.

[weak hemlock]

Ah

[faint cave]

I have screenshots, if you want.

[weak hemlock]

No, I believe you. I just must've missed it

[sand spruce]

They got caught up in the abandonment of Earth and Luna, couldn't recoup.
Their modules are obviously still around in great quantities though, and it's obvious they knew what they were doing given how slick the designs are.

They were some of the first to manufacture ships.

[faint cave]

Now there's a DLC/mod idea: Revive Nova Galactic or convince Walter to have Nova Galactic as a subsidiary.

[unique urchin]

Matters of the Hart.
Saw this quest in the patchnotes, just curious how does one get this quest? Ive never encountered it in my last 10 universes

[high copper]

I think it's a Sam Coe personal Quest

[unique urchin]

Oh

[maiden dew]

Cora has such bad parents.

I would argue that Barret is the only half decent person among the Constellation companions.

[high copper]

I think they are alright, do need some tweaking with their likes and dislikes

[torn ember]

seriously, ive seen way more people than i would expect who were DEEPLY upset when their favorite one died

or like they dont want to go to ng+ because they'll miss sarah too much

[maiden dew]

And here I am, Barret died on me and did not care that much. He is a decent guy and all, but was not that impactful. He was just a friend.

[torn ember]

my character is a total loner so it was easy for me ig

its weird that in later playthroughs when you save them all the emissary will still use one of their voices instead of the default emissary voice

[maiden dew]

Sam is a bad dad- drags Cora all over the place into danger because he has wanderlust and a beef with his dad. Cora's mother is to involved with her job. Sarah is too rigid, and totally failed her crew, though the UC was even worse. Andreja is a spy and just barely learning to be a good person.

The Trader has Andreja's voice.

[high copper]

it's the bethesda way

[torn ember]

yeah but normally the emissary has a default voice and then changes to the character one after they reveal their identity to you. in a save everyone scenario this never happens, so youd think theyd just continue to use the default voice

i never saw this emissarys face but they have the sam voice

well no lol because this is a different emissary, the only reason i know its sam is because its sams voice

my original emissary was barrett

which is weird too because shouldnt the emissary be the same person every time? its not like the hunter is ever different and theyre both present in every universe you visit

yeah i definitely remembered thinking i wished sarah was my emissary because shes such a natural fit

if sarah was meant to be the only potential emissary, i wonder if its also true that barrett was originally a secret starborn?

[sand spruce]

Considering the infinite scale of Starfield's multiverse all versions of the Emmissary are simultaneously active, but there's only one in each universe. Who lives or dies technically isn't why that person is the Emissary (that's just a fun bit of storytelling) and doesn't preclude anyone from being the Emissary if no one died in a certain universe since that character is already from a different one.

[torn ember]

nothing hard but hes the only one with any kind of connection to the artifacts besides the player, and he has some kind of cryptic lines at some points iirc

but then i guess his quest wouldnt make any sense idk

i havent even done it

i've also seen people talking about how terrormorphs have this weird sparkly animation on death similar to what you see when a starborn dies, which makes sense if they were originally connected

[stark shuttle]

then every parent in the game is bad.
Did you notice there are no cars in game. Space ships ARE the method of travel. There are space ships for schools, kids on spacestations. Space in this game is the wild west.
Cora is probably getting a better education than any other kid in the game too.

[high copper]

she's a tough cookie

[stark shuttle]

She's a Coe

[torn ember]

[unique urchin]

Then there is the player, barely able to fly a class A ship properly, prefering mining work, only to be thrust into this wild ride chasing artifacts, having to learn how to fare in shiptoship combat, gaoning skills they never thought they would need.

[stark shuttle]

depends on their background.

[torn ember]

i dont think people were taking field trips with kids in the wild west lol

space is extremely dangerous in sf, letting children travel on ships outside of the settled systems on a regular basis is extremely irresponsible. sam coe is a terrible parent and doesnt deserve custody of his daughter

[maiden dew]

There is a random encounter of a teacher and her kids that can occur anywhere.

[torn ember]

i've encountered it many times. they're insanely lucky to not run into any spacers, ecliptic, pirates or va'ruun zealots considering space is positively crawling with them and they all shoot on sight

[maiden dew]

Yep. There are more bad guys than regular citizens in the settled systems.

[stark shuttle]

No they were working the fields, smoking, drinking and being hardly educated. unless they were rich.

[high copper]

kids were built different back then

[stark shuttle]

why many families had so many children as there was a high statistic that half would die before they got to their 5th birthday

[high copper]

reminded of the Laredo Firearms poster a bit

[stark shuttle]

oh yeah

https://imgur.com/mi7vSu8

[high copper]

I want that clothing in game too

both for the kid and adult

[mint smelt]

the kid was using an inflictor so he was op

[stark shuttle]

it's a Laredo Regulator.

[torn ember]

regulator my beloved

[high copper]

love the regulator

[torn ember]

specifically elegance

[mint smelt]

you can not elude the shrouding

you will be judged

[torn ember]

real

[mint smelt]

you can not hide from the truth

you can not escape from the promised

[exotic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/space-outer-space-space-ship-gif-12307979

[torn ember]

so does anyone have any theories

[sand spruce]

Military service is not required, it is just the quickest of the available paths. Being a teacher or other form of public servant also qualifies, but isn't as expedient.

[torn ember]

isnt as expedient
need to serve at least 10 years in the vanguard to become a citizen

"starfield is a game about hope"

[mint smelt]

Ron Hope

[torn ember]

lol

[faint cave]

Starfield seems to be a second theme of humans being the same no matter where they go, for good or bad.

[torn ember]

except into the unity

[mint smelt]

you just need ron hope

[mint smelt]

is there a legendary inflictor that has a chance to drop somewhere

[torn ember]

yeah from the emissary on the last mission

[mint smelt]

so its pointless then? giving you the chance to get a cool weapon, when you are about to go through the unity and then lose it again

[stark shuttle]

Ive seen people get legendaries from random drops in Ng+. yet to get one myself.
There is a Blue legendary from the Trader in Ng+ which i always buy

[mint smelt]

blue legendary? so you mean its blue?

[stark shuttle]

nah i mean not gold legendary, but has one legendary effect on it - ie the blue ones

[peak halo]

It's not required, it's just the easiest way to get it

[stark shuttle]

gold legendaries i have seen people say they've found but ive not found one yet. Only guaranteed is the one that drops from the Emissary if you kill them

[peak halo]

They are called Rare IIRC.

[mint smelt]

common (white), rare (blue), epic (purple) and legendary (orange) i think are the categories

[sand spruce]

Rare, epic, legendary.

Legendary implies 3 effects, rare only has 1.

[mint smelt]

is that better?

[subtle rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/spacecore-space-portal-core-gif-5586787

[midnight robin]

I got a legendary one punch inflictor from a weapon rack in a ryujin mission. When you have to kill a load of ecliptic

Only guaranteed inflictor drop is on The Emissary I think. Other than that it's all up to luck, and I think level plays a part too. Although I was around level 65

[midnight robin]

Depends on tye effects

[mint smelt]

this is what i am using right now along with a blue urban eagle https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1207438047247994952/1219810360559665172/image.png?ex=660ca7ec&is=65fa32ec&hm=6efbfc16dca70e707184a1dfcc3c3055a460fbf5bd0c61dfb4b9cf3438114c82&

[midnight robin]

Still good damage on it. Only difference the legendary makes is a damage boost via radiation/energy/poison damage. And then whatever the other ones are. Like One Punch which makes it have a shotgun spread. And then you get the extra robot/human damage

[mint smelt]

i prefer to sneak attack manage and not give my position away for as long as possible hope that makes sense, so i like long distance sniping

[midnight robin]

Yeah I use my Hard Target for sniping. I only tend to use the inflictor on higher level spacers and varuun

[mint smelt]

yeh thats why i like the inflictor for exactly that reason

[midnight robin]

Other than that I like running around wirh the grendel and a knife. Wish I still had my Furious grendel, that thing was lethal

[unique urchin]

I want to explore space as an Anthropomorphic Cat.

[mint smelt]

named goose?

[unique urchin]

No.

[midnight robin]

Named Cat?

[mint smelt]

then you could eat the non believers

[unique urchin]

No

[unique urchin]

I can eat the Non-Believers just fine

[mint smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/flerken-marvelcat-angrycat-scarycat-gif-22238559

[subtle rivet]

Ah yes, the tentacular school of thought, though that's canon to The Elder Scrolls, not Starfield, to my knowledge.

[mint smelt]

just like in marvel you can make anything canon if you want too

[faint cave]

Va'ruun really love their particle weapons, don't they?

[wanton basalt]

Is there any other place to sell contraband except The Den?? I cant travel to The Den after the last update! I see The Den in front of me but there is no option to Dock.

[stark shuttle]

Red Mile bartender. (also kryx if joined the Crimson Fleet/ undercover with them)

[faint cave]

There are also conveniently located contraband caches near the Red Mile Run beacon.

[wanton basalt]

Do I need to pass by a Scan to go to Porrima III ?

[faint cave]

Don't think so. It's outside Freestar and UC space.

[wanton basalt]

Lets try to seel some stuffs....thank you !!

[stark shuttle]

nope

[faint cave]

Shower thought: Putting the Red Mile Run on a high gravity planet is genius.

I wonder how those Red Mile Maulers stack up with the Ashta.

[sand spruce]

Aside from their staggering projectile the Maulers aren't terribly threatening.

[unique urchin]

Any human trade authority vendor

[wanton basalt]

I mean any other place that wihtout scan my ship

[torn ember]

the red mile, the key (if you've joined the pirates)

[hybrid axle]

Oh yeah, the red mile
I forgot about them, are they any good ?

[unique urchin]

They will shoot you if you look at them wierdly.

Dont make eye contact, dont touch any of their stuff, and you should be fine

[daring lake]

What? That's not true at all.

[faint cave]

Lore wise it is

[daring lake]

Ok, so what conditions are needed to make it happen?
And where do I find the info that puts that into game lore?

[faint cave]

Wait, we're talking about the Ecliptic guys they hired as security in the Red Mile, right?

[daring lake]

Yes.

[unique urchin]

Its a reference to what the ecliptic say to you if you talk to them

All of them are so on edge. If you even pick up the wrong playing card the whole room turns into a firefight

[daring lake]

I can be right in Stockers face (or any of the others) and nothing happens.
Picking up stuff on tables is treated as stealing, and will cause hostility
wherever you are. Not just The Red Mile.

[faint cave]

I think you might be taking a hyperbole seriously, even if it very nearly isn't.

[daring lake]

Not at all.

[faint cave]

You can make eye contact just fine, but the not touching stuff part is definitely true.

[daring lake]

As I mentioned. But that applies pretty much anywhere.

[faint cave]

The difference being that if you get caught in Freestar and UC space, they will stand down if you surrender. You can't surrender with these guys and they will shoot you immediately, at least in my experience.

[daring lake]

I get that. But its the same everywhere. Get caught breaking a rule and trouble follows.
Its not a specific Red Mile thing 😄

[faint cave]

At least there's no bounty if you put holes into every single one of them.

[daring lake]

Good.

[faint cave]

Oh yeah, there isn't. It's a Bethesda classic, even the memetic Skyrim guards do it. Though I would like to repeat, you can't surrender to the Red Mile security. Either you gun them all down or escape and return a few days later when the heat is off.

[orchid juniper]

I wonder why bananas didn't make it off Earth.

[rigid kiln]

Paella did, we won 🇪🇸

[trail kindle]

Well that’s easy. Supposedly all bananas are grown from a single plant and genetically identical right? They just got diseased.

[subtle rivet]

I explain away a lot of the losses from earth as diseases wiping them out and too many resources getting burned/strip-mined from earth to try to get at least some people off the planet.

[rigid canyon]

Bananas these days are a genetic mutation pf the original banana that went extinct

Also modern bananas are headed the same way to extinction now so...

[orchid juniper]

yeah I did hear something on the news the other day about the Cavendish bananas getting hit with a blight.

I wonder if they based the produce off of what does well in hydroponics/greenhouses.

[maiden dew]

The banana that the artificial banana flavor was based on is extinct.

[random sluice]

dont get me started on banana lore

[unique urchin]

Additional radioactivity.

If u ate 1 million bananas you would die of radiation poisoning

[maiden dew]

I think you would die of overeating long before that.

[unique urchin]

meow

[exotic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/dk-nintendo-donkey-kong-gif-4472496

[maiden dew]

https://tenor.com/view/twerk-cat-dae-cat-gif-24200690

[unique urchin]

Nyah~

[faint cave]

I wonder what Alien Scramble tastes like.

[delicate hazel]

chicken

everything tastes like chicken eventually

[unique urchin]

does Bethesda have a Mascot?

[silver eagle]

lol jk

[peak halo]

Probably Vault Boy

[peak halo]

Wrong. Everything (eventually) taste like crab

[smoky onyx]

What does everyone think is the tastiest creature in the Settled Systems

I bet milliwhales are delicious

[daring lake]

Grilled Twistfin is quite nice.

[peak halo]

Chasmbass

[faint cave]

Aceles

[unique urchin]

Rename yourself to Beth the Kraken

[jaunty ginkgo]

That penned animal in Waggoner Farm

[unique urchin]

bro. dont touch my sister

[main flame]

Brainsprouts

[quaint bloom]

Out of interest how many of you have gotten all powers upgraded

Currently at 5 for them rn and not sure I have the willpower to keep going lol

[indigo nymph]

Upgrading the powers is mostly pointless I find unless you're proactively using them. The game difficulty scales up every time you go through another Unity (and this includes space battle difficulty where powers are useless)

So congratulation! You just got level 10 of a power! Only the game has now set itself to basically max difficulty while you play on normal. So the upgrade was fairly meaningless while all your weapons are now doing lower damage overall. It's really not worth it in the end

[nocturne hollow]

I've read that NG+10 "Very Easy" is slightly harder than Original Universe "Very Hard."

I'm on NG+ 8, it's not that bad. I'm not dying more.

I just wish they didn't nerf Void Form. You used to be able to pop it, loot without consequence, go sell to Trade Authority, buy it back, rinse and repeat. Then sell what you want, it's all clean. Super wild exploit in The Well and Neon. Unfortunately now the power is basically useless, but I guess Bethesda couldn't figure out another way to make it work. Hopefully they just remove the power entirely, replace it with something we all can actually use.

(Actually I need to test that, see if that's still a thing in the latest patch, since it's technically a bug, until it's declared as a feature/intentional.)

[fallow whale]

If you can access an entire inventory for what you are looting; i.e. a weapon rack and not just the individual guns/ammo, then Void does not immediately disappear when you choose "take all".

Still, it does need a rework. You basically cannot tell if it's active unless you go 3rd person view. And without the stealth meter it is hard to tell if you're hidden anyway, two armor items with Chameleon and crouching is far more effective for looting.

[rigid canyon]

I'll need to test this again, I found that Void form ended when you took something but didn't end when you interacted with and entered the Container UI

No idea if that's been changed tho

[faint cave]

I just learned that Vasco can crouch when you're also crouching. Sometimes, anyway.

[faint cave]

I find myself using the utility powers a lot like Sense Star Stuff, Elemental Pull, and Personal Atmosphere.

[analog junco]

My hope is that Shattered Space doesn't send us through old Universes. That would be neat and interesting, having to face what you did to get to the next one.

[faint cave]

What if it's like Entangled where you can jump between them?

[analog junco]

Maybe, I did some bad stuff to level up my weapon skills. Lets say, I have a really high bounty in UC space back in Uni2

[nocturne hollow]

Has Sieghart (Neon vendor) been to/through the Unity? Next time you're on Neon, walk into his shop, and look up a bit. How have I never noticed he has a model of Unity just hanging there?

Maybe it's meant to be a topographical model of a planet (not Volii Alpha — the planet Neon is on), but it looks like Unity

His shop has another unique feature. There is an area you can boost/grapple up to (but there's nothing up there). Very interesting

[analog junco]

There's a few nautical items that are round that it could be, all lot of the decorative pieces have been roundish. Edit: NVM, it looks like a topographical/holographic map of a planet. If I remember, the Unity almost has a liquid like texure to it.

[daring lake]

Its not a model of "Unity" though. It would be cool if it was.
But it is not.

[broken flower]

Maybe the Event Horizons drive core

Next Unity , if the other me says “you won’t need eyes to see where you’re going” then I’m out

[unique urchin]

Phased time in space encounters?

[nocturne hollow]

Personal Atmosphere is a must if you go looting, or if you need to carry a large amount of resources. After a couple levels, it fully recharges before it runs out, so you can basically spam it indefinitely.

Elemental Pull is underrated AF. Using it on minerals you haven't scanned yet counts as scanning them, so it's possible to get survey data by firing off Elemental Pull (worth 1400 and change to Vlad, if you're not speed running the universe, in which case the "sell survey data" dialogue option is not available. Even if it's not, they're worth 717 (to me) to other vendors. Not bad for something that weighs nothing and costs virtually nothing to get. (Upgrade the ship scanner to scan everything in a system, then in every system you go to, scan every gas giant, ice giant, and asteroid in the system.)

As for Void Form, I was able to loot TF outta Kore Kinetics with it. So, maybe it was just a bug?

[maiden dew]

||You get a better price to sell survey data to the LIST guy in the Broken Spear bar on Mars. He is the alternative to Vlad.||

[peak halo]

|| From my understanding, no. Phil doesn't buy desolate planet surveys, only habitable ones, and even then I believe Vlad pays more. ||

[maiden dew]

||Hence Why I said alternative. He still pays more than selling to random vendors.||

[peak halo]

Oh, I thought you meant he paid more than Vlad

[unique urchin]

You do realise you dont need to spoiler stuff in this channel?

[faint cave]

I made the mistake of clicking the spoilers and now I am sad. That was one of Starfield's biggest secrets and I ruined it for myself!

[unique urchin]

Considering this channel is meant to have these kinds of things, and this channel is a view at your own risk channel, you did that to yourself

[faint cave]

I was also joking, geez

[peak halo]

Only reason I spoilers is because they did...

[unique urchin]

Lmao

[daring lake]

||sip ☕ || I just set Discord to show spoiler stuff anyhoo 😉

[maiden dew]

I figured it was easier to add than make a mistake and have some one complain. I guess there is no winning.

[unique urchin]

The while point of this channel is to reduce the amount of spoilertags...

[daring lake]

Really? I thought the whole point was to discuss lore

[stark shuttle]

Indeed, in fact there is a channel for spoiler chat about Starfield #constellation-spoilers

[unique urchin]

Thats for those who have joined constellation via the bethesda website.

[stark shuttle]

which is easy to do

[unique urchin]

Yeah

[faint cave]

Y'all think they nukes during the three wars?

[stark shuttle]

no where is irradiated and im sure it would have been mentioned

[maiden dew]

Niira looks like chemical weapons were used.

[stark shuttle]

bombardment i think was mentioned which wrecked the eco system, but yeah possibly that too.

[nocturne shard]

Bioweapons on the UC part, too.

[faint cave]

I like to imagine that they dropped mechs from space too

[clever adder]

Terremorph is a bioweapon

[daring lake]

Deployed by whom? Certainly not the UC or FC.

[clever adder]

UC

[daring lake]

They tried for sure. Its well documented that they also failed.

[clever adder]

As they bit the hand back lol

[stark shuttle]

They failed to control them as a xenoweapon. the first lab you go to on Kreet (where Vasco says the CF are that need dealing with) explains that.

[maiden dew]

Well, they are deployed by a UC ex-admiral and his weapons dealer crony.

[daring lake]

That's not the same thing as a controllable Xenoweapon though

[fresh reef]

the xenos you meet on niira when you go get the robot are the ones that were used as xenoweapons, and the one you have to kill so the ecliptic cant use it is the last one they engineered

[maiden dew]

If you just want to cause mass destruction and terror, they are pretty ideal though.

[daring lake]

Yeah, but no. You might as well just plant a bomb.

[stark shuttle]

though they will attack your allies just as readily as your enemies

[maiden dew]

Terrormorphs are more effective than a bomb. They will generate more panic. cause the enemy to fight themselves, and cause them to pull in resources to deal with the threat. A bomb is a one time deal and then it is over and done with. A Terrormorph is an on going threat that demoralizes and traumatizes the enemy. You just have to deploy them to strategic locations, not a battlefield, but say a munnitions factory or a city. We see just how effective just three newly matured Terrormorphs are at New Atlantis spaceport.

[stark shuttle]

Traumatises the allies too! Terrormorphs are not picky or controllable.

[daring lake]

Yes. But they are not Xenoweapons. No Xenoweapon tech can be used on them.
I repeat, might as well just plant a bomb.

[clever adder]

Unless mentally stronger

[stark shuttle]

you still cant control them even if you can resist their mental suggestions.

[fresh reef]

you dont even need to deploy them, remember the heatleeches are already everywhere just sprinkle the lazarus plant dust and you are done

[clever adder]

Oh I know

[maiden dew]

You just have to be selective where you deploy the terrormorphs. Imagine how they could have shutdown the FC's military if they got deployed at the Factory and some shipyards. Would be far more effective than trying to plant a bomb. And deploying is basically just sprinkiling Lazarus pollen on some heatleeches.

[clever adder]

Yep

[daring lake]

You just have to be selective where you plant a bomb though

[stark shuttle]

then you would be stuck trying to clean the place up after.

if you want to 'salt' the earth so to speak then they could be dumped. but then the place would become like Londinion

[maiden dew]

More like Niira, but same thing. But a handful of Terrormorphs can be dealt with by a dedicated team. We can take missions to go kill terrormorphs and they can be found on worlds with cities.

[stark shuttle]

if that was the case, Londinion would be liveable again by now in game

[daring lake]

Drop all the 'Morphs you like on my cities! Our Aceles need feeding 😄

[nocturne shard]

Aceles are best bois.

[mighty silo]

If only you could see aceles on planets after the quest

[stark shuttle]

you can. You can sometimes come across them guarded by a human guard and robot

i saw one in the wilds on Montera Luna once

[maiden dew]

But they get bodied by terrormorphs

[maiden dew]

Londinium is constantly getting new terrormorphs maturing. Plus, it is bitterly cold.

[stark shuttle]

that needs to be fixed. Lore states that they should be able to easily take them on.

As for Londinion. There was obviously a city there before and the weather hadn't suddenly changed.

[daring lake]

I'm still taking my thermals when I next visit 😉

[stark shuttle]

Yeah.....never quite understood *why *they'd build there, when other parts of the planet are much nicer....Maybe the cold meant for an easy meat storage facility since it was one of the main Aceles processing plants there.

[daring lake]

Eklund ship builders too

[stark shuttle]

yeah which is a good timeline stamp and possible suggests what the company was doing before partnering with Stroud. Could well have been more like Hopetech making less fancy type ships

[daring lake]

I'm still unsure which came first. Walter and Issa as a couple, or Stroud-Ekland the company.

[stark shuttle]

yeah, that's very vague

[daring lake]

Though the ship-building seems to be quite new in our ("You") timeline.

[stark shuttle]

yeah you do get the salesman state their space shipyard is new to the game, game as in universe ship building competition

[daring lake]

The asteroid mine with the giant crystals though. That seems much, much older.

Suggesting they were involved in other ventures prior to ship building.

[stark shuttle]

Would love to know what those crystals were being mined for......

[daring lake]

nods .... also .... sip ☕

[faint cave]

I believe Stroud and Eklund were separate companies prior to their marriage, if I recall Issa's dialogue in All That Money Can Buy.

[unique urchin]

sips 🥛

[faint cave]

I prefer Chunks Wine over Tranquilitea myself

[bronze shoal]

No Docking Fees?
I've been leaving my ship parked at New Atlantis forever, living on-board instead of renting an apartment. Taking up valuable landing space.
IRL you usually need to pay for a mooring to do that...

[faint cave]

Not only that, but your ship is on the best spot in the entire spaceport.

[bronze shoal]

I've also been littering, there's a huge pile of misc junk at the bottom of the ramp where I dumpted it. Was hoping it'd vanish after a reload, but I guess its permanent now. Whoops

[faint cave]

I can respect New Atlantis, Cydonia, and Akila having free or mostly free spaceport fees. They're probably subsidized.
Neon, however, either the spaceport is free as a lure to get people to spend money inside, or in-universe you are paying through the nose to dock your ship on the very limited parking space.

[bronze shoal]

doesn't Neon have only a single pad? dang shipping must get really stalled when I take it up

[daring lake]

At least 2 pads in Neon. Might even be a 3rd I've missed. But ships land +
take off whilst you are there. The odd thing about Neon are the ship techs.
They are the only ones I've found that do their work without wearing helmets.

[bronze shoal]

don't forget Paradiso. no helmets there either. or safety vests for that matter

[daring lake]

Don't think I've seen a ship tech. at Paradiso. Just the main guy reading a clipboard 🙂

[bronze shoal]

missed opportunity to have them wear dorky sailor uniforms as seen in The Fifth Element at Fhloston's Paradise

[faint cave]

At first I thought it's because he doesn't need to wear a helmet because he's sitting in a hut, but then I remembered the technician in a Akila is also in an office. It must be just a preference, or he's as corrupt as the rest of Neon and makes his subordinates do all the work.

Well, better than the guy in the Red Mile, at least.

[daring lake]

Yeah ... I'm talking about the little guys. The ones that amble around your ship with scanners etc.

[faint cave]

Oh, then I do not know. Helmets get extremely moldy in the rainy planet, perhaps?

[bronze shoal]

once one of them managed to wander up the boarding ramp and was standing in the landing bay.
when I took off he fell out, dropping from the sky to splat someplace into new atlantis

[maiden dew]

I just figure there is a 10 to 1 scaling for all cities. Or more. And actual parking is some sort of Valet service. Like where do the rest of your ships go? Just hand wave away those details.

[cursive pivot]

If we think of the whole game as a TV show or movie set, there will be no problem. For example, when we fast travel from Neon Core to Akila Spaceport during the mission, we actually change the scene. This is also the case when we land on the ground while in space with a spaceship. (I wish they had made a short animation similar to the short animation we see while traveling from one planet to another within the star system while descending to the planet.) The story tells us that cities are much larger and more crowded than they seem, but we do not experience all of the cities on the set of a TV show or movie. When you're committed to the story, we don't need to think beyond the spaces we interact with. Starfield is a game built on this.

[pastel bolt]

Or maybe that's why registering you're ship is so expensive because it includes the intergelactic valet service ?

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[cursive pivot]

Governments will collect taxes. Will you drive a ship for free? 😛

[weak hemlock]

I also view it as an update to your starship piloting license

[weak hemlock]

You know what makes no sense lore wise? How stuff that has been sitting for a century in the Lock still functions at all.

[modern burrow]

There's stuff that still works here on Earth that's over a century old. A little WD40 goes a long way for stuff made to last. Some benefits to the way cold temperatures can preserve function. (The lock should be 100% rusted out too) but if we assume they're using some kind of composites in construction...

[weak hemlock]

I've seen studies on sub-zero temperatures on electronics. Assuming the technological advances that we've seen, and some mentioned technologies...you shouldn't be able to access anything in the databanks. Yet there are terminal entries still active

[gleaming dawn]

Maybe it's more those are exceptions to how many hundreds have been lost

[modern burrow]

Look up "Cold Data Storage"

[slate valley]

Also - it's a game and liberties are taken for gameplay reasons. Just roll with it - it's space magic. Sometimes we just need to put aside perfect logic and just go with the flow of it.

[maiden dew]

I really have to wonder why Akila was settled in the first place with its high gravity and dangerous predators when there are two habitable moons in the system- Codos and Montara Luna.

[stark shuttle]

low gravity can negatively effect the body, where as higher grav would make people much stronger over generations.
Codos has high radiation, due to low magnetosphere.

[novel sparrow]

New Homestead people don’t mind a gravity of 0.14G

[high copper]

I think a simple rework to make gravity normal for Jemisson and Akila and the planet hopetown is on would be preferable

[white willow]

Does Starfield ever touch on people travelling beyond the settled systems? Just like - Picking a direction and grav jumping in a straight line to get as far as possible?

[stark shuttle]

They live inside and on a frozen hellscape moon where you cant go outside without a suit.

I honestly do think there should be more repercussions for where your outposts are, where people's origins are. Such as those who are born on high grav planets are much stronger, but need to exercise more in space/low grav due to muscle wastage and people born on low grav planets have to have modifications to even survive on normal to higher g planets.

[rigid kiln]

I mean, we can travel outside the settled systems so, I guess?

[maiden dew]

We have long established settlements on Mars and New Homestead. Lore wise, does not appear to be an issue to be raised in a low G world.

[stark shuttle]

which it really should.

[novel sparrow]

We can’t. Even the most distant stars in the game are still considered to be 'settled systems'

[rigid kiln]

The settled sysems are around 50 ly of sol? I wouldn't say 100 is around 50?

[novel sparrow]

I guess we can ask Emil on twitter

[white willow]

Oh, we can? I always assumed the total playable map of Starfield /was/ the Settled systems and we could only travel within it

Grav Drives have an average range of around 30LY

[daring lake]

Technically Nieves is correct. "Settled Systems" is a general term used by
the NPC population to describe UC/FC/Independent systems with populations.
For instance, Vlad will give you the locations of the last 2 artifacts and refer
to their locations as "the fringes of known space".
We gamers however might see such a small map in a different context 🤷‍♂️ ?

[modern burrow]

The map does seem small because of the speed it takes to travel to it. But it's bigger than it seems...

[daring lake]

Well, I'm an Elite:Dangerous player so ... ymmv I guess 😉

[modern burrow]

Yes I too enjoy some Elite Dangerous. I was hoping for the feel of scale from that and SC for Starfield but... alas.

[daring lake]

o7

[modern burrow]

🫡

[peak halo]

The Sirens were one of many alien creatures used by the Xenos Weapons department. Others include the Kreet Stalker, and several others. The siren you kill with Kaiser is the last of the augmented, controllable, Xenos weapons.

[bronze shoal]

the map seems small because there's Not Enough Stuff to Do in most systems.

I come across a new system the first time, don't even look around, just go back to map menu and click the next one. It's all one giant Fast Travel Menu.
No Sense of Exploration and Wonder.

I think removing fuel was a mistake. NMS is a good counterexample, landing in a new system is an adventure itself because I have to find resources and craft hyperfuel if I want to move on to the next one.

[peak halo]

Terrormorph home planet. No natural predators. Plus the Lazarus plant... Simply put, you would have to glass the planet to remove all the terrormorphs, and that's not even a guarantee.

[stark shuttle]

Londinion isnt their home planet. No one knows where their planet of origin is.
Aceles are their natural predators.

[maiden dew]

It is highly suggested that Londonium is the source of Heatleeches/Terrormorphs. It is the origin of Lazarus.

[clever adder]

I think the better way to answer the question is they could expand it further BUT it's harder to grasp what systems are there.

[stark shuttle]

but not confirmed. The Lazarus plant simply vastly speeds up the metamorphosis of the creature from it's heetleech stage to adult terrormorph stage. The creature changes without need for that.

[sand spruce]

That planet is - but Terrormorphs predate the colony and have long before spread from ships visiting Toliman 2. It takes 50-70 years for a leech to mature without the plant is all.

[faint cave]

There was mention of a Centauri Protocol in one loading screen, if I recall correctly. The UC gave everyone permission to go out into the stars and expand. Incidentally, this was probably what lead to the Freestar Collective in the first place.

[white willow]

Oh snap! Hadn't even heard of the Centauri Protocol before - Is that something mentioned in the UC museum?

[faint cave]

Not that I remember. I can't find it on the wikis too. I distinctly remember it, but let me see later if I get the loading screen again.

[maiden dew]

Vlad talks about it. Not sure if it is mentioned elsewhere.

[stark shuttle]

yep got a screenshot of him talking about that

[daring lake]

The Centaurus Proclamation

[stark shuttle]

https://imgur.com/UQmAr22

[daring lake]

But its not just Vlad that mentions it. Can't remember where else atm.
Also on T'Morphs being native to Toliman II. ;
I'm currently doing the survey thing right now. And the 'Morphs are
scanning as natives.

... also quicksaving as I go 😉

[faint cave]

Thanks

[stark shuttle]

i remember seeing it - the centarus proclomation, on the info screen during loading too

[faint cave]

The three system limit for the UC and Freestar is probably a response to this proclamation. For all of its military might, the UC's bureaucracy is less efficient than the Freestar's lax laws, so they can't keep up with them in terms of colonizing new worlds. It would have lead to Freestar getting bigger than the UC if the Treaty of Narion hadn't been established.

Though, the obvious loophole is for unaligned people or former residents to establish their own colony and ally with either faction.

[daring lake]

Or start their own, as the Va'ruun did ...
The Narion Treaty was a means to an end. And treaties can be re-negotiated
if both parties agree. Who knows how things will develop. The UC have facilities
in Tau Ceti and send Vanguard there. And the FC do the same with Altair.
So things may change.

[faint cave]

So, did any of you spare Vae Victis and/or Ron Hope?

[stark shuttle]

nope/nope

[maiden dew]

There is a UC MAST science outpost on Archimedes.

[high copper]

Yes B)

[faint cave]

I ended up sparing Vae Victis, but it's because I think death is too good for him. Ron Hope attacked me and I just defended myself.

[maiden dew]

I so want to shoot Bayu.

[faint cave]

I think Marshal Blake is a good leader, but he's way too worried about the Council of Governors.

[faint cave]

I actually haven't gotten around to doing any of the Neon quests yet (Bayu, Ryujin, and Strikers). I'm limiting myself to one major quest per universe to improve performance.

[maiden dew]

Blake should be elevated to the Council of Governors.

[faint cave]

True

[maiden dew]

Masako should replace Bayu.

[faint cave]

Who else can police the governors except another governor?

[maiden dew]

Reisha should also have a seat to counter Masako

[daring lake]

Lara Darvish is already there and a good counter I guess.
And then there is the FC Ambassador in NA. Radcliff.
She's actively seeking a seat.

[maiden dew]

Radcliffe is the last person who should take a seat. An incompetent that can't even plan a assassination.

[faint cave]

The lady who owns Laredo would be perfect for the council.

But because things can't get worse anyway, let's get that guy who runs Kore Kinetics.

[maiden dew]

Reisha is the CEO of Laredo. She also donated to the Stretch and is a lead backer behind the Eleos project. She is a genuinely good person.

[faint cave]

Ah, I didn't know her name. Thanks. Still, that guy from Kore Kinetics counters everyone.

[fallow whale]

"These will put holes in anything."

[daring lake]

Having just completed my planet survey of Toliman II
I'm very grateful for his "target destruction guarantee" 😄
Vimes 8 - 'Morphs 0 ...

[daring lake]

The Centaurus Proclamation - I knew I'd seen it somewhere, and its
documented in the Vanguard Orientation. The UC bowing to the
wishes of the people who wanted independence in 2161.

[faint cave]

30 years later, the Freestar Collective was founded.

The year after that, House Va'ruun was established.

[broken flower]

Fly me to Va’ruun

[rigid kiln]

2240 best year

[faint cave]

Y'all think there are catgirls and dog boys running around the setting?

[trail kindle]

Let me slay among the stars

[nocturne hollow]

Is there anything else "of" the multiverse that we know of?

I mean, the obvious things that are "of the multiverse" are the artifacts and the temples. But also the Hunter and the Emissary. And Constellation, notably Sarah, Barrett, Andreja, Sam, and Cora. And the Unity itself.

So my question is... is there anything else of the multiverse that we may be overlooking?

[solemn bough]

Is there a Lore reason for not dogs or cats in the game.

Seems weird like did people just abandoned their pets

[nocturne hollow]

And on that note, what about the "us" we see in front of the Unity? Who is this character exactly? And why is it, when we start over in a new universe, we're just magically on board some strange ship? Why not put us right back on Vectera? I feel like there is a reason for the change, and it's not just a "quick start." I think there's more to it we aren't being told, and we may come to find out with future DLC. But, there may be answers in the base game we're just not seeing.

[solemn bough]

That is a good question. Like how do we just end up inside a ship that we have a full understanding of how To operate the controls don't look human

[weak hemlock]

That's part of being reborn as the universe. Think of it like this, you give up natural mortality for infinitity. You are no longer human, nor are you really a physical entity. You are one of the many physical "avatars" of the universe itself.

[nocturne hollow]

That works. That also kind of plays into my Skyrim theory, that you're basically Talos. Because you, the player who's already beaten the game once, knows things the character shouldn't, there's got to be a reason, but in Skyrim, there really isn't. Hence the "theory." Starfield actually accounts for this, the reason we have that knowledge (for example, that the best gun in the game is found at the end of the Crimson Fleet quest line).

.
Still, I wonder. If we just magically appear in this ship that is in the Narion system (where Vectera is), then, could it be said that this ship exists in the prime universe just waiting for a Starborn? Or did the Starborn already take it? Because you can meet the Hunter twice that I know of. Once at the Viewport bar in New Atlantis, and again at the first bar you see in Akila City. I guess it's like a chicken and egg scenario.

But the problem with that is, in the prime universe, we only have two named Starborn who are traveling the multiverse. Hunter and Emissary. The other ones, guarding temples, we know far less about them. But after the prime universe, even though you always enter Unity alone, it's said that Sarah, Andreja, Barrett, Sam, and Cora all go as well. Even if you don't have them on your ship. So, does Sarah get her own Starborn Guardian ship? Does Sam? Does Cora get her own, or does she wind up on Sam's ship? To the actual point we make when talking to Cora about Unity, I kinda do wanna see Cora with powers in a smol Starborn suit.

[solemn bough]

I am The Avatar... earth... fire... Air..Water...

[solemn bough]

I got the universe where she is a Starborn but she is basically grown up. Which is weird

[weak hemlock]

I like to imagine that a starborn can take one of three paths: temple guardian, independent, or merc. The mercs are the nameless ones you see during ||the fight for the last temple|| whereas guardians are...well, guardians. independents are the "named" ones. Basically, as a starborn, you can give up your right to a name/title to guard a temple or sit waiting for the attack.

[solemn bough]

I hope we get more about the Starborn in future content.

I really want to see where that goes. Like what is the endgame for it.

[analog junco]

What if Starfield really was like Morrowind in the way that the Unity is CHIM?

[solemn bough]

Iv never played that so I have no idea what that reference means

Like iv only maybe played 1 fallout game and only partially, I found it depressing really

[analog junco]

It's pretty deep TES lore. Its not a story the Jedi Telvanni would tell you.

[rigid kiln]

😭

[maiden dew]

There is also the Trader Starborn and it is theorized that she is Andreja.

[nocturne hollow]

I don't think the temple guardians gave up anything, except maybe the pursuit of Unity. I think those guys might be just trying to put a stop to people hopping universes. (Why they're at temples is beyond me, then, they should really only guard artifacts.)

[nocturne hollow]

The Trader isn't the only named NPC who is a Starborn. Keeper whats-his-name on New Atlantis is the Hunter, or a version of the Hunter who retired. I'm sure in the future, we will learn that other NPCs are Starborn as well. Kind of like when Fallout 4 came out, learning who was really a Synth.

[peak halo]

Isn't the old guy the emissary?

[weak hemlock]

Emissary is whoever dies.

Hunter is Keeper Aquillis

[peak halo]

Oh, I thought it was the other way around

[maiden dew]

Victor Aiza is a starborn, and some theories say he is the Hunter.

It is also postulated that the founder of Constellation is a Starborn, and probably the Hunter. It also seems due to the voice changing through subsequent NG+ runs, that the Emissary is more a title and the four main members of Constellation are all the Emissary.

[rigid kiln]

Do we think the change that happened in House Va'ruun is due to new leadership?

I feel like that makes the most sense

[daring lake]

sip ☕
So ... Hi all ... just logged in and have been reading ....
Lots of interesting thoughts on display 🙂

and erm ... the Victor Aiza that we come across is not a Starborn btw.
His corpse is testament to that.

[maiden dew]

The Victor Aiza of our universe is not a Starborn. But his other self? That would have been a Starborn. So one theory would be that Aiza Prime, ie the Hunter, eventually developed a grav drive and found all the artifacts after a very long time. To jump start the search, he manipulates alternate realities to get Grav drives developed faster. I would further postulate that Sebastian Banks is the Hunter, because he founds constellation just so they can search out the artifacts for him.

[daring lake]

Yeah, no. Its a causal loop whichever way you look at it.
All it needs is for our Aiza to do what he did, and then meet a version of himself that escaped the fate
that we discover. Twelve lost days is something not experienced by "You" or Barrett. The possibility that
some other (as yet unrevealed) agency was involved in that should be considered
Aiza becoming the Hunter though is something that should be considered. There is a similarity in the
lack of empathy shown by both.
As for Banks, well I see that as open for debate.

[solemn bough]

how do you know?

[night mist]

He tells you.

[solemn bough]

when

[night mist]

When you listen to the slate by his body.

[solemn bough]

it says hes a starborn?

[night mist]

"He" is not, the version of "he" that talks to him most certainly is.

[solemn bough]

what are you basing that on though?

[night mist]

The words he says in the audio explaining how he was visited by a version of himself that tells him what happens if he continues the grav drive research.

[solemn bough]

yeah i dont see any reason to think that was a starborn version of himself. sounds like he had a vision rather than being actually physically visited by somebody

[night mist]

I mean the rest of the slates literally imply from Judith's point of view that there was some military people and "someone else" in top secret rooms.

Its been a while, but it wasn't a personal vision from him. Trying to find their text now.

Never mind, it was just two military people. I swear there was someone else.

[stark shuttle]

the slate is pretty clear his 'vision; is another version of him telling him specific events will happen. The Artifacts dont give visions like that. They do throw you into Unity to meet 'yourself' though

https://imgur.com/ibHNBSi

[solemn bough]

yeah i think its more likely that the entity the player speaks to at the end of the game is not really a starborn version of the player, and is probably related to the entity that spoke to aiza

starborn tend to physically exist in space, they arent ghosts floating around waiting to talk to the unconscious

[night mist]

I think that's more likely. Nothing states that accessing the Unity requires X amount of artifacts. This could be malleable by that being or beings. So at the time, only one was necessary to reach whatever goal these beings want (get humans into space).

[solemn bough]

also if it was a starborn aiza, wouldnt the other members of the mars team have seen this go down?

[stark shuttle]

Unless they were all sworn to secrecy

[solemn bough]

a simpler explanation is that he touched the artifact, had a vision, and in that vision he was spoken to by some entity that took on his own appearance. similar to what the player experiences at the end of the game

[faint cave]

infinitity

I laughed when I got to myself at the Unity and got the dialogue 'I do not sound like that'.

[round charm]

oi @rich zenith this could be fixed by packins...
#starfield-suggestions message

well leveled packins just gotta see why lvl packins are underutilized asf

[rich zenith]

what are packing? Im actually about to start getting into modding if its to do with that. I code for a living so hopefull it shouldnt be too difficult @round charm

[round charm]

packIns are basically grouping stuff like static objects, npcs, activators ect to be called again for later use

fo4 introduced it and SF utilized the heck out of it

[round charm]

you must learn ck my friend

[rich zenith]

hmm ok

[round charm]

preferably fo4 creation kit

[rich zenith]

yep i see how this can help to fix it. Yeah Ill learn it, just waiting for it to drop. Let me know if there are any resources that are good to get introduced to it

[round charm]

well theres
https://github.com/monster-cookie/starfield-modding-notes

currently trying to debug PCMs so modders can add new POIs

[rich zenith]

you are doing this?

[round charm]

yep got a new poi to spawn in just trying to make a debugger to disable all POI so modders can test if theirs spawn in

[rich zenith]

ok cool ill get invovled in this

[round charm]

whats taking mere hours on xedit it will take mere seconds with CK

[rich zenith]

smh, bethesda said its dropping early 2024, and well early 2024 stops on march 31st, so we can hope

[round charm]

well if ya check steam DB they are making progress last brance created was video...

[daring lake]

Heh #tech-chat seems to have bled into here 😄

[weak hemlock]

"early" in the year is actually defined as any day before the midpoint of the year...

[rich zenith]

sorry!

[round charm]

ah shoot shouldve took it into #starfield-mods

[daring lake]

No worries 🙂

[unique urchin]

the temples are the reason people hop universes. not the artifacts. and the guardians have done their job well defending the temples so far, till the player came along and took them by surprise each time, getting in before they get a chance to engage, resulting in the power of that temple being claimed.

[daring lake]

That's an interesting viewpoint.
But it does not explain the presence of Guardian Starborn at Artifact sites.
Nor the abscence of same at temples "you" visits early on.
They would seem to be deployed simply to stop "you" from reaching The Unity.

[faint cave]

Maybe they're just the Parallel Self power, either of a particularly strong Starborn or by the Temple itself?

[indigo nymph]

And the midpoint of a year starts in May. So he's only off by one month

[solemn bough]

The way I have seen it is the first 4 months are the early portion of the year, middle 4 months are the middle portion of the year, and late portion is the final 4 months

[high copper]

Dividing it into 4s feels like it makes the most sense in early, mid, late

[solemn bough]

Based off of That they have still Tuesday end of April to release something they say they want to release early 2024 to be on time,... If they go off of my style of breaking the year up

[nocturne hollow]

Defending the temples against who? They're almost always on barren worlds. I think Tau Ceti can get one, or maybe that's just an Artifact, but there were people on that planet before the Terrormorph incident that launches the Vanguard quest line.

I guess there are people on some worlds with temples. The last one I got, I ran about 1200m to an abandoned something-or-other and fought a couple dozen Fleet pirates, but none of them seemed to have any inclination to take a hike over to the temple.

In fact, we know from The Empty Nest that artifacts, at least, tend to keep lesser minded creatures (the Ashta) away.

[solemn bough]

They throw around the term testing alot..
I heard one say another test, there is always a test

Or something like that.

And at the end of main quest the Emissary mentions the temple testing you.

Maybe those Starborn are just empty avatars and not actually people.

It hints that the unity or at the very least something related to the Starborn and that is a Entity with some form of intent.

We also speculate that the temple was where the armillary once stood whole... But perhaps the original creators saw the potential danger in it... Maybe there was a rift between them.. and so It was destroyed and split amongst the stars.

Maybe in the Starfeild universe The Big bang was caused by the Armillary.

Which means there might be a Prime Universe the first one where It all started.

[weak hemlock]

Any planet can get one. I've had some on worlds that are completely dead, and I've some on worlds that have loads of life and would make perfect outposts.

[jaunty ginkgo]

When grav-jumping with music volume at 0%, I heard a brief glimpse of the song that is heard when near an Artifact. Anyone else does?

[cursive pivot]

If Keeper Aquilus is a starborn, why does he glow yellow like normal humans or other creatures when we use Sense Star Stuff Power?

[quaint bloom]

Probably just to prevent spoiling the reveal

[cursive pivot]

I think this can be explained by other powers that we cannot obtain, such as Hunter suddenly teleporting into everywhere or Guardian Athaliah resurrecting the dead bodies. Apparently, Aquilus have a power to not reveal his real existence.

[solemn bough]

Yea what with the hunter teleporting himself anywhere, in my NG+ run he just teleports into my ship. Like bro, who knows maybe that's a new way to travel preview

[jaunty ginkgo]

It would be funny to have Mark-Recall spell again from Daggerfall after all this time, in Starfield of all genre

[cursive pivot]

Or our character had an accident in the mine in Vectera and is in intensive care at a Reliant Medical branch. All these events are a dream in a vegetative state. When we wake up we will immediately run to the Lodge and find that there are only a few more trees there.

Barret makes fun of us by saying "dusty dusty", but those are the sounds of our relatives crying at the end of our bed. 😛

[jaunty ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-eating-eating-eating-cat-gif-8459125914348971806

[solemn bough]

Watch it just be like No man Sky and it's all a simulation

[broken flower]

https://tenor.com/view/red-eyes-rerez-vr-virtual-reality-woah-gif-20059228

[unique urchin]

Against starborn looking to gain more power

[indigo nymph]

Guardians could very well be acolytes of the Emissary. It's said at the end if you side with the Emissary that they go on to grow a cult...sorry...gather those who are worthy to introduce them to Unity. Could be that they're the ones who try to stop others from gaining power and keeping the cycle going. Then again, it would raise even more questions about why Starborn seem to time travel

[maiden dew]

Well, the base unity power is gravity. Current theory states that C (speed of light) is the limit for matter. But the theory also postulate a way around that limit- Wormholes/folding space. The theory goes on that if FTL is possible, then time travel would be a result. So Starborn Time Traveling is an expected result if they gain sufficient knowledge to manipulate Gravity/Space-Time.

[tropic yacht]

There's no actual stated explanaion for what the Temple Guardians are, sure, but your arguement is really weak

At that point you're writing fanfiction

like, say I was playing Skyrim, and a bandit runs out of the woods to attack me. If I stop, and say to myself "Hey I think this guy was actually a paid thug sent after me by Nazeem (haha Nazeem mentioned!), because I saw Nazeem in the market buying carrots and this guy has a carrot on him" then that's fanfiction and nothing in the game supports that arguement

It's the same here. I honestly just think they're meant to be bonus encounters to give the temples more content, otherwise you would just walk in, do the shiny circle puzzle, and leave

||Ironic then that the moment I leave the temples, as soon as the loading screen is done, I fast travel to my ship, skipping the 'boss fight' every time||

[solemn bough]

The only thing I can guess is they are there to test you, mostly because that's the term that keeps being brought up the Emissary says it at the final temples and one says the whole another test, always another.

[nocturne hollow]

Hold up, can Jemison get a temple? Serious question (albeit with humorous intent)

[weak hemlock]

I don't know if Jemison (or Akila) can get one. I would assume they can but I've never seen it. I meant more to the point that people were saying temples are only on completely dead worlds.

[modern burrow]

There's probably a condition to keep them from popping up in undesired locales.

[broken flower]

you may need multi dimensional perception to see them

[keen acorn]

I would think its possible since one artifact is from Mars. It would maybe be in a future DLC ? maybe

[indigo nymph]

You do realise that 95% of the community talk about other Bethesda games is this exact kind of speculative talk about lore, right?

I mean they created this entire channel for exactly that

[nocturne hollow]

Right. And they're not only on dead worlds. It's probably just a randomizer (with, as someone else said, a condition to keep them from certain places, or keep them within so many LY range of Alpha Centauri). But if you ask for a random world with those conditions, chances are you're getting a moon with no life.

We've all seen temples on worlds with flora and fauna, I know we have. I certainly have, but I'm on NG+ 9 so...

[indigo nymph]

I've also seen wildlife walk right up to temples and their external towers without a care in the world. All that while the artifact recovery mission with Sam makes it very clear that life should instinctively keep well away from anywhere related to this technology

[bronze shoal]

What's the deal with Ecliptic? are they just Mercenaries? why do UC/FS seem to count them as criminals
-I take plenty of quests from job boards that are assassination missions; ie mercenary work.... so clearly that's legal....

how are they different from Trackers Alliance?

[indigo nymph]

In-game Ecliptic serve the same role as the Gunners in Fallout. All they do is theoretically provide a more challenging opponent than Spacers or Pirates. From a lore perspective, I guess they're supposed to be the future version of Blackwater/Wagner in that what contracts they pick up are often highly illegal

[high copper]

And underneath take contracts from UC and FC

Of course it would be nice to see more of this in game, like them using the faction to skim around the treaty and have based on other planets

[indigo nymph]

It would be nice to see a lot more of a lot of things to flesh the world out to be fair

[high copper]

Of course, the game makes comments and alludes to things that would be nice to actually have more involvement in the world

[tropic yacht]

What, it's alright to come up with baseless claims but the moment anyone puts stress on them, I'm in the wrong?

Also, would like to expand on this but:

Many of the major DLCs for Bethesda games, such as Skyrim and Fallout 4, don't really make a habit of going back and exploring content already present in the base game. Instead the DLCs introduce new locations and histories, they're all very self contained

Fallout 4 didn't have a DLC expand on the Gunners, it had Nuka World and Far Harbor and whatnot, which introduced entirely disconnected plotlines and stories (with their own issues and plotholes at times)

That's what I imagine Shattered Space will be like, something entirely disconnected, thus what you've got in Starfield is what you get. The lore here is unlikely to be expanded on in any major way

||Like there'll be names thrown around, probably, nods to other parts of the cannon but nothing in the way of 'fixing' what's here||

[maiden dew]

Ikande does hire Ecliptic to attack Neava and you. And Ecliptic was hired to take over that Ryujin mining base.

[indigo nymph]

Only you didn't put stress on it. You just flat out rejected the purpose of speculation in its entirety. In a channel built for speculation. So yes, you are

[tropic yacht]

I should have also said, I take issue with your tone. Rather than saying "I think that this is this way" you were very deadset on your explanation being the only one. That's why I mentioned it was similar to fanfiction or even spreading misinformation. You have to stress your point is a theory or else people in this channel will get the wrong idea

Like, this is Starfield LORE, not Starfield theory crafting

[broken flower]

https://tenor.com/view/parks-and-rec-ron-swanson-permit-fake-permit-gif-13385177

[mint smelt]

please hold on while we scan you for contraband

[broken flower]

I’m a dedicated lore breaker

[tropic yacht]

Lmao

[rigid kiln]

ok so, zealots part of house va'ruun or nah?

since y'know the whole followers can honor the will of the great serpent in whatever way they see fit

[peak halo]

They are, just a fanatic subset

[rigid kiln]

yea I thought so too so that would mean that they have been lying about them not being part of house va'ruun anymore

[stark shuttle]

Who are lying? Andreja says they are va'ruun but have twisted the scripture to their own purpose.

[rigid kiln]

I thought somewhere in the game it was stated that the high council said that they are not part of house va'ruun but split from it

I could be mixing up lore I've been doing to much house va'ruun writing lately 😭

[stark shuttle]

If u do Andreja's personal mission you find her contact was contacting the zealots. I think officially they shun the zealots but they are still very much part of the religion

[rigid kiln]

yea I assumed that Anasko would be more pro zealot that Jarek anyway

[stark shuttle]

Much like the high priestess you learn about was more militant, there are different sects within the cult.

[rigid kiln]

yea Gravid Si'ah Maven would also be pro zealot

[rain geyser]

I'm worried that you know all these names..

[rigid kiln]

Did I not write like 12 lore pages for the UESP wiki about house va'ruun 😭

[rain geyser]

Fair!

[stark shuttle]

Know all too well, when writing, you learn the most obscure
character names 😁

[rigid kiln]

The great serpent page is way to empty for my liking but idk what else to add :c

[desert zinc]

That it will be eaten by the galactic weasel 🤣

[exotic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/flipping-through-notes-tiger-king-checking-notes-reviewing-cramming-gif-24216267

[maiden dew]

Not if the Galactic Mongoose gets the Serpent first.

[desert zinc]

Got already mauled by the universal badger

[maiden dew]

The universal honey badger does not give an F.

[daring lake]

My take on the Zealots is that whilst they are considered to be
"of the promised" by right of birth, they are not of the faction
in a political sense.
If the same rules apply to them that apply to other Va'ruun that leave
the homeworld(s), then they are exiles.
That said, the political make-up of a theocracy is always going to be fluid.
If there are changes to official doctrine then the nature of the external political
power also changes. Its fluid rather than cast in stone.

[rigid kiln]

I'd assume anasko probbo just uses the zealots as full agents of house va'ruun

[daring lake]

Never a good thing to assume when it comes to stuff like this.
I get it, but it can lead you down the wrong path sometimes 😉

[keen acorn]

There must be a DLC plan to explore Va'runn lore, society, etc. It's on my wish list.

[rigid kiln]

Yea I need them to restore va'ruun'kai and fix the Ka'zaal dialogue thingy bc it makes no sense in the current game version

It feels like they forgot to remove/rewrite that entry

[nocturne hollow]

It's basically considered in the realm of fan fiction, but if you want more on the Gunners in Fallout 4, you should play Sim Settlements 2 (playing SS1 is not necessary, IIRC it had no story). The story of SS2 greatly expands upon, and gives you more reason to do settlements, and as you build up your Sim settlements, you get Gunners attacking you, and you get more into their story. Eventually you take over their base... I forget the name of it but it's to the south and there's a Bobblehead in the main room. Anyway, you get that as a base, and you can clean it up, fortify it, decorate it... it's basically like a super settlement. And I think Chapter 3 (the last/latest one) promised more info on what the Gunners were all about and who was behind them (strongly believed to be the Enclave for some reason... IMO just to shoehorn them in). Since Bethesda didn't answer the question, and kinggath is such a good modder, I suppose his answer is as good as any. I just wish the mod was less buggy, but considering all it does, and running on Bethesda's engine, it's actually pretty impressive overall. Just... save often and in multiple slots, etc.

[round charm]

now we need a recreation but for SF

[solemn bough]

So I have this conversation form the chat that I will have to continue in here to due to spoilers, but I have a theory that Unity, the artifacts... It's all part of someone very aware entity of sorts.

One the Starborn at the temples and the Emissary mentions the temples are tearing you.

And the Starborn you fight at the final temples all have names not, so they are someone, haven't figured out who though.

I'm thinking those who have reactions to the artifacts are sort of chosen to be starborn whilst everyone else is kinda piggybacked to it

[faint cave]

Probably the guy you meet at the Unity?

[solemn bough]

Maybe who knows

[solemn bough]

the Emissary mentions the temples are tearing you.

?

[solemn bough]

Testing

[bronze shoal]

For me, the best part of Starfield is the Ship Building.
No Man's Sky just did an update and added ship building.....
I guess I'm going back to NMS for a bit....

ship building And exploration? who knew you could have Both

now SF needs to catch up and revamp planets to be less empty.

[solemn bough]

I mean, there's a little customization in NMS now 😆 . But ya, that's pretty much all I do in SF: build ships, and wish for more ship building options.

[bronze shoal]

TBH, this update adds basically Aesthetic Customization to Fighters.

but Capital Ship Habitat Building has been in NMS for a long time already. and is absolutely superior to SF's ship habs. -I can actually decide where doors and ladders go, and build crafters and refiners and whatnot to have full on working factories in my capital ship.....

[digital raptor]

I deeply, deeply want to fly between planets in SF like in NMS, except it would be better because we have ship interiors, and know that the game supports NPCs auto flying the ship for us so we could get up and walk

[solemn bough]

Lol I meant to make my dude look like Brad pit and I made hime look like Zac Efron lol

[bronze shoal]

that would be Awesome, with seamless orbit-to-surface transitions, and being able to fly your ship in atmosphere too.
I don't think SF's engine can support any of it tho, since its all based around 'fast travel' loading separate area instances.

[digital raptor]

Seamless orbit to surface definitely isnt possible. We know that star systems are fully modeled though, and planets have orbits. Ive used console commands and mods to make my ship go faster, Bethesda just needs to add official support for that kind of gameplay so its not 100% empty out there while traveling. Need random encounters, and nice views in space like Nebula, and other anomalies

Pretty much all i post in #starfield-suggestions is for my ship to go faster

[daring lake]

Whilst I can understand folk wanting to get that feel of flying around space
from one point to another, the only FTL mechanism in game is the grav drive.
Instant travel over large distances.
The Wing Commander style "fly past" animation shown for in-system transitions
is the game giving us a view of our ship. Nothing more than that imo. And I wish
that they would change that to an in-cockpit transition with the grav jump
animation viewable from the pilot's seat.

[digital raptor]

My proposition is mini grav jumps that just passively bend space around you. Easy to think of a solution for fun gameplay for sci fi setting imo. Dont necessarily need FTL.

[high copper]

I mean you can, it's just gonna take you several hours

[digital raptor]

Rather it like NMS where I can get there in like 5 minutes at most. Ive flown to other planets manually already, both slow and fast with console commands. Just needs more gameplay around it both in and outside the ship

[daring lake]

I would not like to see that tbh. For me, that would cut into the core of
what the story is about. But like I say, I get it.
The ability to use console commands is not relevant imo.
Now if they were to introduce a method of interdicting a ship during a grav
jump .... well, I could see that as a thing.

[digital raptor]

I rather fun over being stuck on a planets doorstep. Wanna explore space. More fun than teleporting imo. Console commands are relevant because they show that the star systems are fully modeled. It's like Bethesda has setup the game to be that way in the future. Probably what the "new forms of travel" update will be,

[daring lake]

When I said that console commands are not relevant, I meant that they are
not relevant to what actually exists in terms of the in-game tech that we have.
And all that in-game tech forms part of the core of the story.
Having spent many hours in games like Elite:Dangerous I get what you are saying, truly.
But any changes/additions have to fit in with the universe we are in and its story.

[digital raptor]

Thus micro grav jumping 😉 ships go faster, the lore is preserved, and i get to actually fly through Saturn's rings and not be told I can't go there.

[daring lake]

I don't get that though. Grav jumping is moving from one point of spacetime to
another in an instant. Its not a "hyperspace" or wormhole journey. If you want
to be able to select a particular point on the map (such as the rings of Saturn)
then they are going to have to do a major re-work of the system maps we have.
And I don't see such a huge change (and significant cost) happening atm

[digital raptor]

Grav jumping folds space around your ship. Micro grav jumping would just be something like having your ship slide through space faster, moment to moment, at each point in space going forward. Going faster. They don't need to rework the whole system. Systems are already fully modeled. We just need to be able to go faster, and have encounters within the system.

Everything in SF is compromised for fun as well. It's not a hard sci fi.

[daring lake]

You mean travel slower 😉
You seem to be describing Elite's Frameshift Drive btw.
The game may not be "hard sci-fi" as you call it, but my whole
point is that the grav drive, and its origins, are central to the actual story.
Putting in tech abilities that don't mesh with that story makes little sense to me.

[digital raptor]

It's not really new tech, and doesn't violate the story. We grav drive from point A, to point Z between star systems. Im describing using the Grav Drive more frequently, like a shutter, or flickering light. There is nothing in the lore that says a ship can't Grav Drive to a point much closer in front of itself, and then repeat that action again rapidly to move through space. Your ship would look like a constant flickering light as it makes the journey across a system, while from your POV it can look seamless.

Can't think of anyway this violates the universe, its just using the grav drive in a more rapid fashion that is more short range. Wouldnt be surprised if theres mention of that in universe already.

[daring lake]

I can see that we are not going to agree 🙂 and that's OK imo.
But to your point that the system would not need a major re-work;
Changes would need to be made to introduce a co-ordinate system
within the system map to enable the player to choose a destination,
and changes made to the in-ship nav system in order to reveal the
position of POI's such as ships and satellites. Sounds major enough
to me.

[digital raptor]

No Man's Sky has no system map, only a chart of planets. It doesn't even show your location in system. You can't even select a planet in that game to automatically target it, yet it's still trivial to travel, and easy. You face the planet, and go. In Starfield, we already have the ability to open a detailed system map, and target the exact planet we want to go to. It's just a matter of then facing the planet, and micro grav jumping toward it.

We can already open the scanner too in game and bring up all planet names on the hud.

[daring lake]

But you can't bring up the position of Saturn's rings though, can you?

Or the position of the satellite around Venus.

[digital raptor]

I shouldn't have to, I would just fly to Saturn. If there are other anomalies in space, they can show up in a spot on the system map, and be represented there. Doesn't have to be detailed. Planets and everything else already have real positions.

Bethesda can spawn a "dereltict ship" in the middle of a star system, and that can be represented by both a spot on the (simplified) system map, and both by a real position in game.

[daring lake]

Well, its a dream that may only be realised in a different game I feel.

[digital raptor]

They fully modeled star systems and said new forms of travel are coming for a reason. They're going to open up space. Easiest update to do imo to make the game better.

[bronze shoal]

the Grav Drive can manipulate gravity, for example if you shoot it out, then a boarded ship has everyone float around instead of artificial gravity.

this implies that in-universe grav drive technology is capable of creating gravity fields, and/or manipulating effective mass. (not just the full on space warping jump).

that offers two more possible methods of interplanetary flight that fit with the SF 'universe': generate a gravity field around the ship for a 'reactionless drive' capable of extreme acceleration. or copy the game Mass Effect where the drive reduces your ships mass to zero.

...On a related note
if we have gravity control, and thus by extension can make Reactionless Drives, then.... there isn't a great reason to be using chemical rocket propulsion (all the visible flames).

lots of science fiction stories are guilty of this kind of thing.... establish that a technology exists, but fail to fully account for its implications. instead relegating it to a magic black box.

(see also, Star Trek, transporters, replicators -remember that episode where the crew gets turned into children and back? yet we never hear about people using it to intentionally become immortal after that )

[daring lake]

And that highlights my point imo. The Grav Drive is more than just a "magic black box"
The scientist that died whilst attempting to link his mind to a drive, describes in his
note that scans show a "polymorphic system that mimics human cognition"

[bronze shoal]

or dead Red Shirts, why not just use the transporter to re-make them? its possible to duplicate people using it (the Riker copy)

Starfield really should have 'gravity lift' elevators, not these dang ladders. it fits in universe. ships can already turn internal gravity on and off

[daring lake]

I'm hoping that Walter has put his R&D team to work on making something
out of all that Caelumite floating around 😉

[maiden dew]

Earth to Mars would be days to month depending on planetary alignment.

[peak halo]

Planets are also MICH closer in NMS. You can actually see them from another planet, which in most IRL (and starfield) cases, you can't.

[peak halo]

2 weeks minimum using current chemical rocket tech. Much slower with Ion drives.

[digital raptor]

They are. Regardless, we have a map, and scanner to show us where to go.

[peak halo]

Or is it 2 months....

[high copper]

it just takes a long time

[peak halo]

No, 5 Months is the fastest we have on record (excluding the nuke launched sewer lid)

[faint cave]

It's implied we use conventional rockets in-system. Assuming technology has improved rocket speeds 300 years later, how fast do you guys think interplanetary system travel is?

[modern burrow]

If max speed in orbit is any indicator. A couple days in between planets.

I've never actually checked a date when traveling between locations. Should see if it updates in game.

[quick tundra]

I don't think it could be that long or I'd have failed way too many timed missions

e.g. I often pick up a "transport settlers to [system]" quest and then still go survey multiple planets

[daring lake]

What do you base that on? The fly-by animation that shows your ship "in action"?
In-system travel is done via grav drive. Unless the game clock advances by a couple
of years during stuff like Groundpounder.
That Wing Commander style fly-by is mis-leading.

[digital raptor]

I dont think its ever clarified how we travel in system. Doesnt seem like grav drive to me.

If it is than that's just micro grav jumping like ive been proposing, since we are jumping system.

[digital raptor]

Dont know, but they can easily just show we have tech for ships to make them boost faster since its so far in the future. We can also have a "hard sci fi" explanation where we just ride the momentum of our ship, and constantly accelerate. The current limit seems arbritary.

[round charm]

@hardy kelp thats actually an unattended feature btw since it uses the same ID as play I want to say

[daring lake]

Yes it is. Its the only FTL system in the game.

[broken flower]

The ships seem to have reaction engines for sub light manoeuvres

[digital raptor]

FTL doesnt exist in Starfield's universe.

[digital raptor]

That's what it is more likely. Our engines are capable of going faster.....we just can't actually do that while actually controlling the ship right now.

[daring lake]

Please. Stop stating stuff that ain't so.
Or explain how we can travel 30ly in moments. That's Faster Than Light.

[digital raptor]

FTL travel does not exist in Starfield's universe. You told me that Im saying things that dont fit in the universe, but then casually suggest FTL exists? Come on man. That's like a cornerstone fact of the setting. I havent said anything that isnt so. Im suggesting ways for the game to be more fun in a lore friendly way. I dont know why you keep pushing back. Do you not want the game to be more fun?

[daring lake]

I'm not casually suggesting anything. I'm stating that FTL travel exists in the game.
Its not a secret. Its enabled by Grav Drive Tech.
I don't agree with you about the travel system you are suggesting. We've been over
that before.

[digital raptor]

Grav Driving is not FTL travel, its moving space around the ship with gravity. That's a foundational piece of this universe. It's the whole reason I recommended the "micro grav jumping" idea because FTL does not exist. I just thought we all knew that.

We cant supercruise like in Elite, but we can move to different spots instantly, near and far away.

[daring lake]

Oh I see. So now we are in the Dune Universe 😄

[high copper]

idk if I'd call the way the grav jumps work ftl travel

[sand spruce]

Cora literally asks "Do you ever think we'll be able to travel faster than light? And none of that grav tech cheating!"

[daring lake]

Moving from point A to point B faster than light can
certainly qualifies as FTL travel imo

[daring lake]

Yep. Its cheating because nothing can travel faster than light.
.....without cheating and turning physics on its head.

[sand spruce]

Yeppo - but my insinuation is that even in-universe the characters don't consider anything that they do to be FTL.

[daring lake]

Except for Victor Aiza who remarked that the speed of light is
rather slower than the grav drive.

[unique urchin]

Would make sense, early grav drive tests grav jumped from the moon to (saturn i think?)

[unique urchin]

True. And it doesnt travel faster than light. It just folds space and hops a couple metres up in 4 dimensional space, popping into existence up to 30 light years away from where it was before.

[cursive pivot]

Going Faster Than Light Whether the ship is accelerated by creating a warp field or going to hyperspace, we can call what ships do in franchises such as Star Wars and Star Trek as faster-than-light travel. However, in this game, the ship does not move at all, it changes places without moving, just like teleportation.

[unique urchin]

30 light years away in 3 dimensional space anyways

[daring lake]

Oh boy

[unique urchin]

People need to stop thinking in the 3 dimensional constraints.

People who think in 4 dimensions look at people who think in 3 dimensions the same way that proper scientists look at flat earthers.

They (the people thinking in 3 dimensions) dont quite grasp the physics of what the people who think in 4 dimensions are trying to explain

Faster than light travel is impossible to accomplish when staying within the 3 dimensional constraint.

This is also shown when grav jumping. As the ship jumps, the engines burn hot, the thrusters kicking off alot of energy, despite the ship not moving anywhere from that burn, before blipping out of existence

Its been proven from black holes that gravity can be used to fold space.

[digital raptor]

I just want to be able to grav jump in successive rapid increments of 300,000km each. That is enough to create the illusion of "moving" through a star system, and traversing it. Especially if crew can pilot and take over and control the jumps.

[unique urchin]

Well... theoretically

[unique urchin]

Microdistortions. Kinda like crinkling paper hundreds of times then pushing a needle through the layers of folds.

The ship is the needle, the paper is space, the folds are created by the grav drive.

Travelling a long distance(millions of kilometres) in 3 dimensions, but only a few dozen kilometers in 4 dimensions

[faint cave]

I like to imagine Starfield's 6 note main theme plays in-universe as well when grav jumping

[modern burrow]

Wouldn't be very flexible if there were hard time limits on delivering NPC's to locations. Would perhaps be nice if there was some sense of time demands but I don't think that's ever fit in Bethesda's game design very tightly before.

[quick tundra]

But…there are such time limits already? The missions I’m talking about have a countdown and if you miss it the mission fails.

[modern burrow]

Not built into the npc escorts though.

Maybe I missed it this whole time.

[quick tundra]

I have no idea what you’re on about at this point. Someone said that travel between planets take days, I’m saying that is extremely unlikely because I regularly take missions with a time limit measured in days and then fly between planets multiple times

The time limit in talking about is absolutely built into the transport missions for both npcs and cargo

[modern burrow]

Yeah I mentioned at the top speed a ship can go it would literally take days to travel to one planet from another without jumping.

It is some how currently implied that it's instant which wouldn't be correct unless a jump is happening. So there is detatchment from the quest timer and what actually happens when you hit travel on the map menu.

As it sits currently : It "would" take days to fly one planet to the next in the same system, but it is not counted against actively, either in game time or for quest timers.

[maiden dew]

We have firmly established lore that you can travel from Luna to Jupiter with a grav jump. So Intrasystem planetary travel is established. By all accounts, spaceship travel appears to not be significantly advanced from what we can achieve with modern spacecraft. So it would take days to months to years to travel within a star system if grav jumps are not used.

TL;DR: Space is big, yo.

[digital raptor]

Doesnt seem like we're Grav Jumping between planets. I think the game just ignores the passage of time for in system travel. In universe I think our ships can move faster than we actually can in game. It might just be smaller grav jumps though. It needs to be conveyed better.

[modern burrow]

Yeah as it is right now it seems implied we're cruising while in system between planets and not jumping. (via cutscene)

Which is then not reflected by the clock.

[maiden dew]

One piece of lore that is not well established but I think fits is that it requires large masses to navigate with grav jumps. So you can jump to planets, but not empty space. That fits with what we see in game even if not is not explicitly stated.

[daring lake]

Yeah, its all about that fly-by cut scene. That is the sole thing that gives
some folk pause. In spite of all the well established lore of the game.

[maiden dew]

I really feel that the cut scene is just meant to give a cool look at your space ship.

[digital raptor]

There's established lore (like FTL not existing), there's still open questions about a lot of things though. A lot of ambiguity about how people get around from a game point of view, and in universe one.

[daring lake]

Oh not that again.

[modern burrow]

Okay I just tested this.

Time was 17:17UT then I flew from a contact ship to Gagarin and the time shift was 19:25 UT

So 2 hours of flight time from orbit of Grissom's Moon to Gagarin.

[maiden dew]

There is established lore of travel cruises, and the mission boards show there is regular odd jobs offered to ship materials and transport passengers, mail, or cargo between systems.

I could see SSN contracting ship captains to carry news broadcasts to other star systems.

[modern burrow]

So in order to make a 2 hour flight from Earth to Uranus in real distances it would take 398,611,111 Meters per second. Ships are shown being capped unmodded around 220? 250 meter/s ?

So... 1.33 times the speed of light. A jump has to be happening.

Where 2 hours slip by.

[digital raptor]

Yeah its a smaller jump im thinking

[daring lake]

And likewise 🙂 I've just done 2 flights between Zelazny I & Zelazny III.
A distance of just over 500ls (about 1 AU) Less than a minute each way.

[modern burrow]

Less than a minute in UT or local time?

[daring lake]

In your ship there is only UT

[digital raptor]

Either that or Bethesda is just not worrying about it. I know Skyrim and all other Bethesda game travel times def aren't accurate when walking across their maps. They're condensed though. Wouldn't say the same for Starfield's space. Flying around with console commands, and star systems seem accurately huge

[modern burrow]

It will count local time if you're resting and landed. but yes otherwise.

[daring lake]

Yes. it will. But I thought we were talking about travel between planets.
Sorry if I've mis-understood.

[modern burrow]

Well hour of game time not 1 minute. I misunderstood your time frame was all. game minutes go by in seconds.

[daring lake]

Yeah Ok. The time frame I'm using is the stated time in-game.
In my test the game said it was 12:52 UT when i began the journey
and still said 12:52 UT when I arrived.

[modern burrow]

huh. I did the same trip in Zelazny and it jumped me an hour ahead from Z1 to Z2.

[daring lake]

I was doing Z1 to Z3 btw 😉

[modern burrow]

my bad. I'll try something closer.

[daring lake]

But I'll try your route as well

[modern burrow]

just had the clock go from 20:39 to 02:45 going from Z2 to visually the closest body which was Zelazny-7c. So distance by eye is deffinitely not a thing.

[daring lake]

? I use the scanner to get the distance and then select the destination from the map.

[modern burrow]

I just went off what looked closest on the map which "visually" was Z7c. Actual distance not so much.

[modern burrow]

Huh. You were right it is only like a minute. 03:19 to 03:20 for anything 0.5 light seconds.

[daring lake]

0.5ls? Or did you mean 500ls?

[modern burrow]

Testing the difference for 500ls.

[modern burrow]

So 500 light seconds we went from 09:56UT to 10:42 UT

[daring lake]

About 8 light minutes (ish)

... in less than a minute

[modern burrow]

Cutscene : Cruising away!
The Clock: I don't know what to do!
End Cutscene: We're here in record time!
The Clock: Did... we jump or.. wait how fast were you going?!

[daring lake]

I would hope that changes to an "in cockpit" transition.

[modern burrow]

Some kind of time dilation to relative ship speed is deffinitely happening.

[novel sparrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/282237397289402378/1223373407882838026/image.png?ex=66199e45&is=66072945&hm=945a6c6584a286ac5e419c6b04ee75ac5f5bac6fba49cf1a2774ad4c18551e6f&

In the Teaser Trailer from 2021 it says that ETA from Vectera to Jemison is 00:22:03

[round charm]

we doo have peer to peer connection which is nice

[round charm]

wait so time changes when traveling???

[modern burrow]

Yes. Though not exactly to scale.

[round charm]

well they did something which is nice

so once CK does come out we could add packages to vendors

[modern burrow]

Could probably even set up actual cargo runs that require a cargo bay with cargo that shows up visibly.

[round charm]

could also happen need to take notes

since devs is almost done finishing the foundation we can do the rest

[round charm]

hmm from my testing my time doesn't change when doing interplanatary travel

[modern burrow]

Has for me. Checking by getting up and hitting the wait menu on another cockpit seat.

It does vary by distance. Planets with closer light-seconds are at a different time shift.

[round charm]

Ight I need to test that

[novel sparrow]

Maybe it skips a day or two sometimes. For example, maybe it’s not 2 hours but 26 hours

[normal mulch]

this might be jump time i dont think in lore jumping is instantaneous

[tropic yacht]

Okay but fast travel causing kind of weird time jumps isn't at all new

The same is true of Skyrim, fast travelling from Windhelm to Windhelm stables has taken anywhere between an hour and a whole day to pass when I tested going back and forth between the two

The Creation Engine just doesn't really keep major track of distances sometimes so it's kinda folly to start basing math and theories on it.

Like, it's just guessing. It's not realistic

[high copper]

If they would bring back the daggerfall form of actually seeing how much time passes then it would be more consistent I guess

[rigid kiln]

Halt! Halt! Halt!

[tropic yacht]

Amen, honestly It kind of shocked me that there would be zero effort to make downtime a part of ship traversal

Like, that would have been the perfect time to have a chat with companions, do some crafting, or engage in other minigames you could juggle on your ship. It's the one part of the Bethesda exploration loop I wanted expanded on, the constant use of fast travel, and they didn't touch it

Also, Daggerfall appreciator, I tip my hat

[maiden dew]

There are only a couple of missions where time even matters, and the funeral.

[high copper]

My suggestion on space travelling was like you set the course then enable auto pilot as it travels or maybe a random crew member sits down and flies it instead, during that time outside the ship time has sped up (so it’s not several hours of waiting but a few minutes maybe)
Meanwhile everything inside the ship is at normal speeds

[clever adder]

Giving Earnhardt an actual use.

[faint cave]

And if you have Sam on the ship, you arrive twice as fast but with the ship at half health and being pursued by Spacers.

Easy guess as to why.

[clever adder]

Have a actual co-pilot for flying

[maiden dew]

But none of the pilots in the game would be able to fly a Class C ship.

To expand on something someone else brought up: I think the Terrormorphs are the last remnants of the Creators civilization. Think of them like the Morlocks in HG Well's Time Machine. It would explain why they have quark degenerate tissues. The Great Serpent is really just a heatleech. He is the last of the creators and managed stop his degeneration into a terrormorph. The entity of the Unity is an echo or remnant of the thoughts of the creators. Think of the entity like a recording left behind for those that follow.

[rigid kiln]

Gonna report you to Anasko Va'ruun for this

[digital raptor]

The amount of people I've run into (especially on Reddit) who do not want this kind of gameplay has completely shocked me. It's like some people just don't want the game to be better. We definitely need systems borrowed from Daggerfall.

[high copper]

the crowd system from starfield could be added onto giving them a basic function similary to daggerfalls citizens of being able to ask for directions and other things, they don't even need a full dialogue spoken out

[tropic yacht]

It's part of that game-evolution discourse where there's a lot of people who prefer shiny graphics over fleshed out mechanics

[silver eagle]

Please remember this channel is for starfield lore discussion only.

[tropic yacht]

Anyways

Have to disagree, Terramorphs are literally just giant spiders, and we dont need another Sci Fi setting about the ancient ones

[digital raptor]

I should really get around to beating the main story so I can talk about this stuff

[tropic yacht]

Starfield was actually appealing to me because the Starborn are still a relatively recent thing, and still around , which is an interesting direction to take your mysterious beings archetype

[high copper]

right they don't seem to have any big plans, either just stick around in a universe or collect the artifacts and move on

[tropic yacht]

Oh sure but I always read that as them still setting themselves up. Like on a cosmic scale, the fact that they've only ever existed after Earth's fall makes them an outstandingly young 'species', so it makes sense their main goal is to expand and grow

[high copper]

continuously grow and become more powerful each go around

was it that a part of you gets left behind in the unity or what?

[tropic yacht]

Idk, does it matter?

[jaunty ginkgo]

What you did and what you are becomes an imprint and impression upon the* universe (*that specific one you left)

[maiden dew]

If ask the "you" at the Unity, he specifically says that the artifacts and temples were created by "The Creators". So there is already established lore of mysterious beings. Also, its spelled "terrormorph".

[maiden dew]

I maintain that the Unity is a quantum decision point where you both do and do not move onto a new universe. While we the player follow one choice, both actually occur, hence why if you go back, constellation all goes back as well.

[tropic yacht]

Oh sure, because misspelling a generic name is cause for denying someone's claim

I'll be honest the ending seemed the most rushed part of the game, the fact that they just throw around the idea of there being 'creators' is really dumb and nothing up to that point supports that claim. Like I do not understand why every universe has to have obligatory precursor civilizations

[tropic yacht]

Okay but they do the exact same thing with the Companions in Skyrim, where you can technically leave but the quest is always in your log and it's just waiting for you to accept it so the implication is that eventually you're going to go through with it

Plus, the game breaks if you don't go for NG+

[maiden dew]

The artifacts and temples had to be created by someone. Now whether a mysterious reference to "The Creators" is better than saying nothing at all is debatable.

[tropic yacht]

Sorry, I had blocked out all my memories of the temple runs, because they're just so...

Regardless of that, still have to disagree with the Terormorph theory, it's just a massive unfounded leap

Like, there's no actual link between Terormorphs and Starborn, or these supposed 'Ancients' (I'm gonna start calling them Ayleids for how important their temples are to the world of the game)

[maiden dew]

Terrormorphs have several powers that are rather like the Starborn powers- invisibility, influencing others and some weird projectile effect. Plus as I mentioned the quark degenerate tissues. There is admittedly not a lot to go on, but there is some logic here. Plus, it follows the narrative that events are connected and there are no coincidences according to the game logic.

[daring lake]

Yeah, no. Quark degenerate tissues are common to lots of other fauna. As is the
chameleon trait. And also the 'Morphs do scan as native to Toliman II.

[tropic yacht]

Deathclaws in Fallout can become Chameleon and go invisible, are they starborn too?

[maiden dew]

Are Starborn in Fallout?

[tropic yacht]

Ahhh very clever, sure they are

[broken flower]

bye bye logic

[tropic yacht]

Just wait for the next round of Creation Club content, there's already the Prey suit, Doomguy (+BFG), Legend of Zelda sword and whatever else gets put into the CC

[tropic yacht]

I just have to massively disagree with your logic. Invisibility is not cause to believe you're a super-magic dimension hopper

Hence the Deathclaw comparison but clearly we're working of a pure literalist form of arguementation, meaning I can't uise metaphors because ppl dont get them

[daring lake]

This has already been said btw 😉

[tropic yacht]

Hasn't stopped you guys before

[daring lake]

"You guys" .. really?

[tropic yacht]

ugh oml

"People in this channel"

[daring lake]

So ... I support your argument about the chameleon ability and you
have a go at me? How does that work?

[broken flower]

it is what it is

[silver eagle]

Stop. keep it on topic please.

[maiden dew]

I have laid out multiple pieces of evidence. If you don't accept that, that's fine. But we really do not have much else to speculate on if you do not recognize the limited evidence provided in the game. When trying to do theory crafting from game lore, you by necessity accept the premise that every piece of information is significant. Sometimes, you get it wrong, but often you get close to the ideas of the game creator.

[tropic yacht]

That reminds me actually
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/955790972489445436/1223765391738671164/invisibility-of-enemies-v0-3fuzxmtnbqrb1.webp?ex=661b0b55&is=66089655&hm=c5ff49e0273e00b19af0326e1ce0925da1919f244990911b573d1be37cec081d&=&format=webp&width=893&height=502

So here's a screenshot of an invisible NPC I ran into when exploring, therby if we're going with the logic that because Terrormorphs have Super powers (invisibility) then that must mean they're remnants of the Creators, since this NPC shares the abilities (and importantly, isnt a Starborn) they must be the same way (perhaps sharing latent genes) and you're not allowed to critique my point because only the game creator could call me wrong

||Obviously ignoring the fact of the shakey foundation this theory has, it's just pure fanfiction, and it's kinda funny how often people go into writing fanfiction then claim it's 'supported by the evidence' which is just misinterpreting game context||

I mean, uh...

Sandwiches sandwiches?

[broken flower]

verrry interesting

[tropic yacht]

That's the point I inevitably always argue

There's a stark difference between putting together clues and writing your own fanfiction, and if your response to any critique is to say "Well actually you didnt make the game, huh!" then that's just a latent admission that you're making stuff up

[faint cave]

I found Terrormorphs near temples on two occasions, if that helps.

[tropic yacht]

Terrormorphs are an enemy subject to the level-list, meaning they can appear on every planet, so

Like, Deathclaws do the same thing, where they can appear anywhere, it's just a problem with level scaling affecting lore discussions

This is not a new arguement, I've been having it for years, but people still fall into the same pitfalls of logic

[orchid juniper]

Is Nyx a Va'ruun?

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/9xM2PTJhc7

[daring lake]

Never noticed that before, but if he was then would it not read;
"We are coming"? At least the Dev's like to leave clues on future
content 🙂

[digital raptor]

I definitely dont think the Terrormorphs are more than what they appear. But could be wrong. I think its funny how everyone's different experiences playing the game can affect how they perceive and interpret things.

[delicate hazel]

Terrormorphs are just the big scary alien that can rip you apart

Fallout has deathclaws
Starfield has Terrormorphs

Bethesda saw people liked deathclaws and decided Starfield needed something like that as well

Sometimes a thing is just a thing there's not always a big deep meaning behind it

[sand spruce]

Yeah they're just everywhere, being a problem.

[quick tundra]

honestly the thing that got me about terrormorphs was when they used the new Atlantis attack to introduce EM weapons

and then the citizens attack and you're supposed to nonlethally stop them

and then when you attack them they beam lines like "no please help us!" into your brain

and then...nothing. that whole plot thread goes nowhere at all

[sand spruce]

At the risk of misunderstanding your point: It's the Terrormorphs doing that - whatever it is that they do to control people seems to emulate the previous last free thought of the individual being controlled as a voice line in the player's mind, hence the lines like "What's that noise?" and "They're all around us!" being what the Terrormorph seems to have taken from the individuals as their last thoughts... and they keep those for some reason, transferring them to others. It's creepy. And for some reason it does occur when attacking their human thralls. Also, some of the lines appear to come from the Terrormorphs themselves, the ones excited for fresh meat and the like, which is even creepier.

[faint cave]

I found this part interesting, as instead of giving us the dedicated EM weapon, a Novalight Disruptor, we get an Equinox (?) that has an EM mod.

[rigid kiln]

I hate how the zealot logo has made it it so that all mod creators think this is the va'ruun logo 😭

[nocturne hollow]

Saw the same sticker outside Jake's bar in The Well, right next to a poster for that Va'ruun TV show/movie/whatever it was. I didn't read much into it then, either.

[nocturne hollow]

At the risk of going further off-topic (maybe not), the Terrormorphs seem to be inducing a state of schizophrenia, making you hear voices. I once, for my career, underwent an experiment where we simulated interacting with one another with simulated schizophrenia, in the form of Mp3 players whispering distracting and, at times threatening phrases in our ears. The Terrormorph encounters remind me of that, and I don't think it's an accident.

Apparently it may be a standardized test you can do yourself. I looked it up on YouTube and saw CNN's Anderson Cooper trying it, and what he heard sounds like the recording I heard. It's not just the recording though, you get tested by a person, asked to do some things and remember some other things. The whole thing is quite unsettling, so if you want to understand what it's like to be under the control of a Terrormorph, maybe find a way to try it — or ask a person living with schizophrenia, if you have the opportunity.

[nocturne hollow]

(Orion, but it's leveled. Novalight at earlier levels, which is kind of meant to be a throwaway weapon, because no one really uses EM weapons. Orion later, which you can mod back into lethal. Or just sell it.)

[faint cave]

Thanks

[faint cave]

Is level 60 considered an early level? I've seen Va'ruun using Novalights at that level.

[maiden dew]

Nova lights are pistols that do lethal. Novablasters are EM rifles. They can be used to avoid killing on the Ryujin and CF missions.

[solemn bough]

So the Guardian Starborn ship, seems like it sort of Generated it's own gravity field around it to manipulate how it moves.

It doesn't take off, it manipulate gravity around it to move around in any direction.

It doesn't really have engines it just changes or creates gravity around it to move through space

[faint cave]

It moves through space through sheer spite against the laws of physics.

[bronze shoal]

TBH, All ships in the SF universe should work that way
we already see that Grav Drives can create artificial gravity fields Inside ships for the crew. It's a natural extension to use that the move the entire ship.

[solemn bough]

Maybe in the Next DLac we will see the space ship makers reverse engineer Starborn tech

[bronze shoal]

my point was, they don't even Need to see a Starborn to do that. the ability Already Exists and is seen in their use of Grav Drives.
they just aren't using it to it's full potential

-lots of SciFi writing is guilty of doing that.
introducing a tech concept, but not following through with the Full Implications and only using it for a single niche, when it Really ought to be a full paradigm shift

[solemn bough]

I cannot for the life of me find a civilian settlement on Venus that has a vendor

[bronze shoal]

keep landing in random spots till you get lucky?

[solemn bough]

All I keep finding is Bounty hunters and People who need help and have to be taken off planet lol

[bronze shoal]

alternately, don't play the silly Vendor/Wait farm, just install a 'richer vendors' mod

bc, frankly, venus/vendor/wait farming is already basically an exploit as is, just cut to the chase and use a mod

[solemn bough]

I'm on Xbox, trust me if I could up each vendor to a million I would have lol

[bronze shoal]

ohwell.
i'd had quit playing months ago if not for Mods to fix stuff like this. hope Beth adds full support soon

[solemn bough]

Finally I found one OMG finally now to build an Outpost near it

[bronze shoal]

is there even an IN-universe explanation for why Time moves different on different planets?
Yes planets all have different rotation periods in RL, but that doesn't mean an hour lasts longer on venus vs earth. just that a day has a different number of hours in it.

its a puzzling design decision gameplay wise, and I haven't heard a Lore reason to go to the trouble of making it that complicated

[solemn bough]

For that I think the movie Interstellar describes it the best

[bronze shoal]

Lol, no, LOVE does not explain why time should move differently in SF. Interstellar has zero credibility for science accuracy.

(yes I know A Brief History of Time and time dialiation under extreme accelerations) but the planets themselves aren't doing that.
I can see Time Passage being different when using your Grav Jump, but Not when sitting on a Bench.

[solemn bough]

But also the Planet rotates around the sun slower.

So I Venus your spending X amount of days on there sleeping so Venus hours, so one day is not one day as in 8 hours for us, but 243 days I think for earth, so when you spend what is 1 day there as in sunrise to sunset, x amount of days habe already past on earth time.

The way they makenit in the game with hours is just some simplification of that. But your essentially spending a whole lot of time on there not that it's going faster it's still an hour in theory but if you stay there from sunrise to sunset a lot of time almost a year really would have last on earth

Really it's also how you define a time... An hour on earth is 60 minutes and an hour on Venus is several days maybe weeks

[bronze shoal]

Ewww? just use UTC time for all player references. and have the sun shadows move faster on some planets.

[solemn bough]

The sun shadows would move much slower on Venus

[bronze shoal]

bc otherwise it doesn't make sense for a human to sleep for 6 weeks without dying

[solemn bough]

The way I see it, sunrise to sunset... Which is how time was originally told...

So if you had a sundial on. Venus, an Hour would be defined by a whole different variable of you still use the 24 hour clock.

[bronze shoal]

look, daylight savings is just lame and I wish that the bill to ban it could have gone thru this year.
lets leave it at that. I don't want to deal with it.

[bronze shoal]

your biological cycle doesn't speed up or slow down based on sundial time. 'Wait/Sleep' should just be a universal reference, not scaled locally. its a Wierd decision gameplay wise

[solemn bough]

What does that even mean.

[bronze shoal]

-just because a year is shorter on one planet than another, doesn't mean you get younger or older when you move between them

is what it means

[quick tundra]

yeah the only remotely plausible explanations I've heard is "it's an implementation detail"

e.g. maybe it's so that "wait X hours" always cycles the day by the same time from any planet

[solemn bough]

That's not what I was implying at all, you age at the same rate, you just experience longer sunsets and sunrises. By the time 1 sunset is experienced on Venus your essentially 3/4 of a year old.

That part is what I didn't understand about Interstellar.
If tike went faster for him, his daughter should have reasonably been still young when he found her.

But than again, we as a species barely know that much about the small species of the universe we even exist in.

We know our laws of physics yet there are things in the universe that are not held to our known laws of physics.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLht4NBw/
This guy really explains a lot of it. But the sheer size of our little bit of the universe we are aware of is insane like the scale of it is crazy to think about

[bronze shoal]

had to jump thru some odd implementation hoops to get that kinda result, considering an easily accessible timer -the CPU clock is always available

[solemn bough]

Man this vendor is a low aller only has 2600 credits on him..

I'm Etter off resetig on Venus and going back to Neon

[bronze shoal]

vendor reset farming is lame, hardly qualifies as 'gameplay'

[solemn bough]

It really does get old quick.

I know I'll be looking into that vendor mod when Xbox gets mods so I can just go with a huge stack of stuff sell it all in one shot and have millions of credits to go buy more ammo with lol

[quick tundra]

I remain a bit baffled that people even subject themselves to it

just go do literally anything else lol

[solemn bough]

It's mostly because We do a lot of looting, and once you get to a certain level 2 or three items will suck up a vendors Credits and that isn't great when you have like 200 plus guns and god knows how many helmets and armors

[jaunty ginkgo]

I think we already get so much credit even without loot juggling or being a loot goblin, this isn't so much true in their previous games

[quick tundra]

when I hit that point I simply loot less, and save the big unloading sprees for urban hubs like Neon

[bronze shoal]

After a point I stop Looting Items
I just keep doing Kill Quests back to back, most my credits are from the chest by the VIP and the mission reward

[solemn bough]

Om d I get to 2 million I stop picking things up unless they are legendary and advanced or Legendary and Superior for armors.

If my credits get close to 1 million I loot again.

I saw a video of this guy essentially looting buying all the ammo selling loot to recoup credits and would just do that as he went.

I do be blasting through ammo fairly quickly too lol

[quick tundra]

even 1 million is kinda unnecessary especially if you already have your ship tricked out the way you like it

[solemn bough]

I think I have around 10k of each ammo for the three guns I'm using now, so that should last me a bit.. I still have to compete the main story for this Run

[solemn bough]

I like to have more than 1 ship, I play solo runs so no crew, which means I don't need to worry about when I switch my crew being removed. I can make one ship a huge cargo bulk hauler but the rest are mostly small sleek starships that I just think look cool

But all that takes a lot of credits to do

[bronze shoal]

-steal ships, rearrange parts without buying any new one. how cool can you make it look? fun challenge. cheap

[solemn bough]

Idk just seems we enjoy different aspects of the game and have specific ways to achieve them.

I wouldn't sweat it

I would prefer being able to dump all my loot on one vendor and get my 1 million for it but until I'm able to do that, this is the only way to achieve it.

1 gun for me usually sells for double whatever any contract pays out.

I have one Basic modified Advanced Magstorm that sells for 6512.... that's basically three bounty contracts

[bronze shoal]

flying to Kryx and nuking the fleet is good credits too, grab it all from the wreckage.

pirates are loaded

[solemn bough]

Iv done that but It didn't add up to what I can get from a few bounty missions of loot and a trip to neon than to Venus than back to neon

[bronze shoal]

more fun tho

[solemn bough]

There are three vendors in neon that drop around 11-12k each, us the hello there guy and the other grumpy dude than the two inside the tower with Taiyo. I can net a good amount in one trip, and buy ammo at the same. time.

[solemn bough]

I mean going around doing bounties is also fun. j

I also don't play the game everyday all day, so I just need a quick way to farm money fast in a short period of time so when the next time.indecoded to get on I can do a ship build without having to spend an ungodly amount of hours playing the game.

[faint cave]

It's interesting that the Settled Systems as a whole is more lax towards law enforcement than real life, even accounting for video game laws. I'm guessing space is just too big?

[solemn bough]

Usually hop on for an hour, turn it off domother stuff maybe come back play for three more hours and not pay for like a day or two maybe a week

[bronze shoal]

and yet somehow, Ship Registration fees can be collected remotely from any place in the galaxy

[faint cave]

Ship Technicians don't eff around

[solemn bough]

The ship registration fee to selling ratio is so annoying... Pay 40k ton register ship... Resell for 4k profit.

What in the GameStop is that all about

[bronze shoal]

i was so glad the gamestop near me closed for covid then never reopened. got what they deserved

[solemn bough]

I honestly.prefed the economy system in No Man sky over Starfeild.

The vendors have infinite credits but let's say you sell Gold in that system. The value of Gold goes down. So it's great if you sell one huge bulk of gold you get more money that way. But if you sell Gold in bulk once... And come back you will notice the resell value is now much less.

And each system has something they will buy for more because their is a higher demand for it.

Until you sell them a ton of it than that drops the demand and this the resell value of it.

[faint cave]

Imagine if they were still open 300 years later. Let's call them Galaxy Games

[faint cave]

The first mod I installed in Starfield was a rich merchants mod. I'm on PC, though.

[bronze shoal]

oh right, I should do some NMS. they added ship customization. should scratch that shipbulding itch I got from SF

[solemn bough]

If your on PC I think you can do it's currently it's only Fighters Explorers and maybe hualers though.

[bronze shoal]

like, you scrap ships for parts and can reassemble..... hmmmh if only SF would let you do that....

instead of parts vanishing as soon as you close the buildeer

[solemn bough]

I remember using the duplicate glitch to make those AI things and mass sell them lol I had max money in like 1 hour

Whenever they had the expedition is did the refiner sup glitch to just get a lot of Minerals I needed to not have to be struggling so much

[bronze shoal]

when they had expeditions, i would go to the Anomaly and claim all the Twitch reward ships to pull tech parts off. they closed that loophole eventually tho

[solemn bough]

How did they close that, I'm assuming no anomolies during expeditions

[bronze shoal]

just not allowed to claim during

[faint cave]

Er, are these in No Man's Sky or Starfield?

In any case, the last time I played, I visited an independent colony that wasn't part of LIST. I just thought it was interesting.

[bronze shoal]

?not LIST? you mean "Spacers" ? it always bugged me how they're considered hostile, seems like just people

[solemn bough]

They are basically space bullies, they go around and just kill cus they can on innocent people... They are essentially the fleet without the fleet code

[bronze shoal]

wait? hows that any different from me?

[quick tundra]

yeah that actually annoys me about the memo in one dungeon where the spacers are like "oh cool now we can go legit"

[solemn bough]

I mean if you're just killing innocent people than esse risky your just a spacer in constellation.

I just kill hostiles so That's not the same as a spacer

Like a spacer will just kill some random farmers cus they felt like it.

[quick tundra]

you shouldn't have a faction defined by dehumanized violence and then half-heartedly try to humanize them. I have similar feelings about Fallout raiders

[solemn bough]

Seriously either make them full irredeemable Monsters or give them a full scale turn around, stopping midway just feels cheap.

But until then It's on site with them.

In my head they have killed kids, they don't seem above that, so I mercilessly kill them.

[bronze shoal]

that can't be true. kids are unkillable in Beth games

trust me, I've been to Little Lamplighter. they don't die

oMG, crazy idea:
combine SF into the Fallout universe
Just change the story so that Earth is uninhabitable bc of nuclear war, not loss of magnetosphere
and anytime you land on earth, it boots up Fallout 3 and transfers your character over.

depending on what place you land, boot into either New Vegas, Capitol Wasteland, Fallout London, etc

[keen acorn]

Sounds like a Shattered Space portal to me LOL

[faint cave]

But Spacers are not a cohesive single group.

Wouldn't it make more sense that some of them are just regular folk that ended up turning to crime and others are irredeemably evil?

[pastel bolt]

Any group of hooligans with a ship can be spacers, but only some spacers go on to join a faction like the Crimson Fleet "Raiders". The Ecliptic are a faction of Mercs.

[maiden dew]

I mean we deal with that a bit with say the Ebbside Strikers. Like the first Striker you meet was a Trader before she got involved in drugs.

[faint cave]

If I had any knowledge of modding, I'd be adding more named spacer and mercenary groups. Surely Ecliptic, while the biggest, can't be the only mercs in the Settled Systems.

[maiden dew]

There was the First, but then we slaughtered them all if you complete the Ranger Faction quest.

Traders Alliance appears to be a loosely organized band of bounty hunters and mercs.

[high copper]

trackers alliance 🤓

[pastel bolt]

Merc groups are different it makes more sense that it's monopolized into the Ecliptic faction with some supply issues. You wouldn't leave a large military like the UC and FS to be a free agent, you'd want to join a larger group that can offer the same type of support you're used to. Military contractors can typically recruit by offering higher paying contracts for less work than standard service.

[daring lake]

I'm the biggest Merc. though 😉

[maiden dew]

In a galaxy of normal humans our character is effectively a Spartan. How many times does our character single handedly or maybe with a companion that is fairly useless do we clear out whole bases of enemies on just actual quests?

[high copper]

Isn't that most games (minus cutscene you)
the player is automatically the strongest and smartest

[pastel bolt]

Ya that was the joke I think

https://tenor.com/view/princessbride-bride-princess-gif-5152022

[round charm]

btw somebody is overhaulling the economy for SF dynamically

you should be able to impact the economy with your actions

[round charm]

when checking out voice files the devs were gonna make a faction for mercs with voice types for mercmale01 and mercfemale01 but looks like it got scrapped

either that or it was leftovers of fo4 in the bsas🤣

[pastel bolt]

I think it would have ecliptic

[round charm]

maybe since lots of stuff in voices got merged into other voices

sadly looks like we were supposed to get more eliciptic voices but they settled on 1

[pastel bolt]

The wanted perk is like the opposite of the BOS signal flare, instead of calling in a small squad of BOS to bail you out in a fight a small squad of Ecliptic show up to attack you

[quick tundra]

imo no, because then the term doesn't actually mean anything as presented in the game

it's like that South Park joke where a town had such a homeless problem that people worry that the people living in nearby houses are homeless

[novel sparrow]

What's the lore behind XM-2311 pistol? It looks like a modified Old Earth Pistol. Who made it?

[indigo nymph]

The XM-2311 is, contrary to the name, really an almost exact copy of the M45A1 just with an extra lightning cut on the front of the slide. Even the colour is identical as is the front rail placement, calibre and magazine capacity

[solemn bough]

wdym it wouldn't mean anything?

[exotic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/space-astronaut-spinning-stars-gif-16565421

[solemn bough]

what does this mean

[exotic nacelle]

Just letting people know I'm floating around

[solemn bough]

oh

[delicate rover]

woah the channel name was changed

[faint cave]

Has anyone figured out what's in Chunks?

[spring hemlock]

So I think one thing that went over the heads of many, if not all people (myself included), is why Starfield doesn't have smartphones, and that there are those small text pads everywhere.

I found the answer to that: Mark Weiser and his vision "The Computer for the 21st Century " about "ubiquitous computing" from 1991.

Basically, Mark Weiser described how devices with computing capabilities in "the future" would be like.
In his vision, he thought that such devices would recede into the background of the users attention, would only have a single purpose, be rather unpersonalized, and connected just like IoT devices today are (like Smart Home devices).

To quote Mark Weiser:

Ubiquitous computers will also come in different sizes, each suited to a particular task. My colleagues and I have built what we call tabs, pads and boards: inch-scale machines that approximate active Post-It notes, foot-scale ones that behave something like a sheet of paper (or a book or a magazine), and yard-scale displays that are the equivalent of a blackboard or bulletin board.

I would argue that Mark Weiser's vision is one of the essential parts of Starfield's NASA Punk genre/setting, and an indicator that Starfield's timeline differed from our timeline in the 90s already.

Pretty cool if you think about it 😄 I just wish Bethesda would have specified more obviously that Starfield's timeline started to differ from ours in the 1990s and early 2000s already.

[high copper]

I mean there are tablets laid around, Bethesda just uses the slates as the main thing for npcs and the player

[spring hemlock]

Yeah but those tablets to a large degree still fit Mark Weiser's vision.
In certain scenes, NPCs are using those tablets, and they look like they are more of a single use device (like for monitoring certain things).

I think Bethesda took inspiration from Mark Weiser, not necessarily using 100% of his ideas and vision.

[high copper]

you should post this finding on r/starfield and see the reaction

[spring hemlock]

Lol, I think it wouldn't either get much attention there, or only negativity.

I personally think that this is good worldbuilding what Bethesda did here, it certainly is an integral part of the NASA Punk setting.

[high copper]

I mean I like the nasa punk setting, I'd say it's unique enough

things the like internet exists from some conversations you can have, it's just not in a meta sense? is that the right term
like it's not something the player can actually interact with

[maiden dew]

I figure it is just flavored food paste.

[daring lake]

Does it really show a divergence in the timeline? The Multiverse is a central theme, one where many
possible "timelines" exist. There will be a universe where grav drives never came to be, and the fate
of our planet very much different. Just as there is a universe where grav drives were developed on
Mars and Humanity has it all, including their home planet.

[spring hemlock]

Good point, but I was speaking from a more general worldbuilding perspective and design choice

[tropic yacht]

Ehhhhhh idk, it's been a common criticism of Bethesda's worldbuilding where they don't consider long-distance communication when it would solve a LOT of problems

Like, I still remember this coming up in Oblivion, where the head of the Fighters Guild will only ever give you assignments face-to-face, in spite of the fact the questline has you go all over the map

It can kinda be excused in Fallout and Elder scrolls tho, in Fallout it's very hard to mask radio signals, so everyone in the area would be able to hear you, and the world is dangerous enough to make couriers difficult
Same with the world of Skyrim, lots of bandits and I imagine a lot of people stopped using Daedra couriers after that whole Oblivion crisis

I guess ppl were expecting Starfield to go against that pattern, hence the criticism, but still I wouldn't say it's worldbreaking.

I'd prefer they DID think communications out more, rather than have me chase some guy down and tell him, in person, he's gotta go back home. But otherwise it's just a nitpick

[high copper]

I mean when it comes to tracking someone down to get them to come back home is fine to be in person, if they did have a phone of sorts they could just hang up and say no, but being there in person it's better to convince them

I can agree with some other parts having some kind of communication device

like my idea was in the cockpit seat or nav desk or computer you can open and see messages you can respond

if you have to kill a bounty you can send evidence of it from your ship, this adds some immerison I would say

[slate valley]

In system messaging could work, limited by the speed of light. You would not be able to hold a real time conversation unless you are in very close proximity. Messaging between systems is impossible. The technology does not exist and cannot exist without permanent wormholes. Again, it's limited to the speed of light. Grav drives are NOT a faster than light method of travel. Grav drives fold space to instantly transfer you from point A to point B. The only way to transmit messages between systems is for a space ship to take them physically.
Why is this so hard to grasp?

[peak halo]

Well, FTL comms could be possible with a QEC, but those would be bulky and expensive.

Not something you put on a random ship. Something like the Vigilance, yeah, but not the player ship.

[solemn bough]

i think part of the issue is people want some sort of explanation for why you can accept a bounty mission in one system, fly to another system 100ly away, kill the bounty and instantly receive your payment

seems kinda pointless to have some kind of detailed communication system if you're just gonna break the rules to do that anyway

[peak halo]

That might just be a gameplay thing.

Or it's a pre authorized transfer, holding in your account until the target is eliminated.

Might be something that is done for 'every' bounty hunter, because then the person who completes the bounty is the only one who gets paid

[daring lake]

This 247 units of "stuff" that was in a container in Akila is now
in storage at Deimos Staryard. This happened within a couple
of minutes of it being loaded on a ship. But of course the stuff
has not "travelled". Its simply got to its destination quicker than
light can.

[peak halo]

If you are doing a delivery mission, you have to physically take your ship to the target location, to drop them off, same with passenger missions.

Would be cool if there were courier missions, like, they require minimal cargo space, but you get a bonus for being fast.... Then again, all of the travel is loading screens, and is otherwise instant (atleast for the player)

Also, grav jump time is weird. In some cases, it seems like a journey could take weeks, and in other cases you find a bus full of kids at some remote planet outside the settled systems....

[high copper]

I did add a suggestion so you have to do more for those missions, like cargo you have to deliver a slate to sign off the package, much better than just instantly finishing the mission just by landing

[peak halo]

That would be cool, yeah

[high copper]

I'm all about adding details like that for immersion and involving the player more in the world

[daring lake]

I'm truly unsure what point you are trying to make and whether it has anything
to do with my own point. ?

[peak halo]

Each cargo order would be assigned to a named NPC in the settlement, who you have to find and get to sign the receipt

[peak halo]

What 'stuff'?

[high copper]

yea pretty much, they don't even have to be a permanent npc just spawn in for the mission