🎮〕illuvium-zero

[timber sapphire]

Thats a good idea, which color should it be? I think white is nice

Depends on gas prices at the time

[long tendon]

I miss @amber atlas 😢

[cyan dew]

yeah

[hearty cradle]

hmmmmmm a Whitelist?

[hearty cradle]

what happened to him?

[timber sapphire]

👀

[long tendon]

he hasnt been dropping alpha in a long time

[hearty cradle]

they keep him in a cave
full of bats !

[long tendon]

#FreeJohnnyA

[hearty cradle]

#FreeJohnnyA

[copper charm]

LAND LAND LANDDDDD SOOOON

[spring jetty]

Chill out guys, land is coming 2022 for sure 🥱

[lethal thunder]

Yeah December 31 is still 2022

[untold relic]

It will be sooner don't worry

[frosty lagoon]

they have not made a single deadline why would they start now

[analog inlet]

they have also never given any specific dates just estimates. so really you could also say they have not missed one "Date" yet

[spring jetty]

It's very common in the gaming industry to miss a deadline, unless you have worked on game projects you wouldn't understand the frustrations. Try to be understanding that they are making a AAA game within a year. Just look at Diablo 4, it's been in production for over half a decade. If anything illuvium's production speed is mind blowing to me

[signal raptor]

Diablo 4 ? There is only 1 true Diablo. The 2 !

[frosty lagoon]

bro they said it was ready to go months ago. We are not talking about a game but the land sale. You are on drugs if you think they are going to make the june deadline

[spring jetty]

There is no deadline only the best estimate date, if you can't tell them apart then I have no words. Just FYI Zelda wild breath was "ready to go" a year before its actual release date because they wanted to make it better. There is nothing wrong trying to make sure everything is perfect before releasing it

[ruby rapids]

Steelshaft is not necessarily saying that there is anything “wrong” just that the estimates we have been provided up to this point have been completely unreliable, which is true.

[hearty cradle]

the team is working on illuvidex

[pure rune]

i'm literally dumbfounded at how long the land sale has been delayed and the complete lack of communication around it. there's never just one cockroach ... i'm expecting this will be the way other parts of the game go as well

[hearty cradle]

im with you

[lunar shell]

Why land sale is always delayed if it was technically ready in January before the hack?

what happened to the 2 weeks after staking v2 ready?

[empty path]

Where do people keep finding this 2 weeks after staking?

[lunar shell]

Kieran interviews

[empty path]

Must have missed that one

[ruby rapids]

We have been “2 weeks away” from having the land sale since November … ;p

[empty path]

7 months to go for November, we good

[hearty cradle]

they are moving the land sale to illuvidex

[quasi canyon]

Would you mind explaining the benefit of this?

[hearty cradle]

i dnt even know
im just reading the medium article

[lunar shell]

I see a problem when they give estimate dates in the interviews and later they don't deliver. I know they use the 'they were not official dates!" excuse later but it creates a bad image for the project. Anyway wish the best for Illuvium and sorry if it sounds like FUD, but leaders have to hear the sentiments of diferent parts of the community.

[pure rune]

i don't even mind delays but if you give me a date - even if you have to push it - I can put it in my calendar... otherwise i have to check this fucking channel for rumors all the time

[empty path]

Better to post this in #814313819185741845 so it doesn't get lost in all the messages 🙂

[empty path]

As soon as the team knows the date, they will announce it

[indigo coral]

yeah dates so people can check back around those for news is better than nothing

[south belfry]

If other people buy at the price you’re happy with you have a gas war with them aswell and may pay more or lose there’s no way to beat the gas war unless no one buys at what you want it at

Plus people can watch and see when people run transactions and just pay more gas to beat them even if it is a Dutch auction

But also to be honest there’s 4k silv2 holders so atleast 4k people interested in land possibly

So 4k for gas wars watching 297 plots at a time

[hearty cradle]

dutch auction is just gas war at higher prices

[floral locust]

Are you sure that's possible?

[south belfry]

It’s 100% possible you just have to watch etherscan

[floral locust]

seems like that would be tough to do if confirmation is quick

[south belfry]

Pay enough gas and it doesn’t matter

[potent dock]

It's possible to design the land sale in a way that it isn't possible. But yeah, you can front run any transaction if you're fast enough and pay enough gas.

[floral locust]

Are you aware of any discussions to negate this?

[potent dock]

Not any active ones, but it was discussed back in the day. I'm not sure if the team has designed around it, but I don't think it's the biggest deal TBH. I'll note that I strongly disagree with almost everything Viggy thinks re: gas wars in a dutch auction. I disagree with the premise that there's a "magic price" at which all land buyers will try and buy a plot (unless that's the starting price, which means the starting price has been set too low). I disagree with the premise that someone will wait on the sidelines to frontrun a plot from you when they could have bought it 1 increment sooner and NOT paid insanely high gas to snipe a plot from you. I disagree that lowering prices will in any way benefit the DAO or potential land buyers.

[south belfry]

The issue is a precedent has already been set with old prices so everyone sees those old prices at what the land is believed to be valued at or even lower since those are starting prices so why would people pay the new prices when there’s already price targets that were set

[potent dock]

Unless someone has a vendetta to try and stop an individual from getting ANY land, it just doesn't make sense. Let's say my price for T1 is .9 ETH, that's what I'm willing to pay.

Someone frontrunning is trying to make sure they don't overpay for land. So they see my transaction pending at .9 ETH, and pay .05 ETH in gas to snipe the plot, bringing their price to .95 ETH. They could have just bought for .91 ETH instead, and had a normal gas price. It's a net loss scenario to try and snipe transactions by pumping the gas.

[potent dock]

No, it's not a precedent that has been set, and nothing was locked in stone. When the proposal was first put forward, the overwhelming feedback was that starting prices were too low. You can see this in the thread in #809220563397902346 .

It's honestly yourself and maybe a few other vocal individuals who have been advocating (loudly) for no changes to the original IIP's prices.

[south belfry]

Please tell me what about at 100+m$ value land sale is too low

[potent dock]

Nothing, I'd just rather get there without a gas war.

[south belfry]

For only 1/5th of the supply

Gas is going to be an issue no matter what, what if gas for the whole network is super high during sales people still pay a bunch of gas

Everyone seems to be assuming there’s going to be a gas war for all the land when it’s most likely only going to happen for T1 which are most likely the people to have issues with gas if that’s all they can afford

Even at a 1.5 valuation there could still be a gas war for all the T1

And once the buy pressure fizzles out at 1.5 it’s just going to be a gas war at the price where other people are comfortable at

[potent dock]

If you're correct, and almost all of the community for some mysterious reason is emotionally attached to the original starting prices as a fair valuation of land, you're correct that AT those original starting prices, there would be a gas war.

That argument falls apart when you put people who are not robots into the equation. Someone is gonna think to themselves "Hmm... if I put pay .01 more ETH, I can get this plot before everyone elses' price is met." When you get many people doing the same thing, the original starting price no longer matters.

[south belfry]

The other issue is you have a bunch of people watching 297 plots at a time so that’s a lot of potential buyers for a T1

[timber sapphire]

It goes on for 3 days right? People need sleep at some point so need to be lucky i guess

[potent dock]

Based on what, exactly? You have all these hypothetical scenarios cooked up where there could be a gas war for X circumstance, but the only thing I've seen you suggest is to use the original starting prices, which GUARANTEES a gas war.

[south belfry]

And saying that there’s going to be a guaranteed gas war at original prices is basically a hypothetical scenario too

The tier with the biggest potential for gas war is T1 wether it start at .5 or 1.5

[potent dock]

Call it 5 ETH, explain the format, let the market find a price.

Starting price is arbitrary, it decays over time, buy when you're comfortable.

I'm not crying for anyone's bot that buys the second the sale goes live, people trying to use automation to cheat can get wrecked for all I care.

[south belfry]

I don’t care about that either

[potent dock]

To be clear: I don't care what the starting price is, but using a Dutch Auction format without a sufficiently high starting price is like playing tennis with a baseball bat. If most people are willing to pay the starting price, the starting price is too low.

It's not about being a revdis bro, it's about properly utilizing the auction format to ensure that:

1. Your average buyer is paying primarily for their plot, instead of primarily paying gas fees in a gas war.
2. Land finds a fair market valuation.
3. Players have the best chance of obtaining a plot.

If land is sold substantially below a fair market price, there is incentive for people to buy plots with the intent of flipping them for a profit (on a short time frame). Those people are also the most likely to actually be able to win a gas war vs. your average player.

[south belfry]

There is no fair market price set yet until the sale is finished, people are going to flip no matter what it’s the plague of NFTs. Make T1 start at 5eth 2 at 10 3 at 15 and 4 at 20.

The most people saying they’re going to buy right away are usually the same ones saying they just want one piece of land and don’t care how they get it

If tier 1 is 5 eth it’s substantial enough to deter people from buying it right away

[quasi canyon]

You have to have a lot of faith if youre paying 15k for a tier 1 lmfao

[south belfry]

My point is tier 1 will have the highest chance of being bought out right away even if it’s at 1.5eth to start compared to higher tiers so start it high enough to let the Dutch auction do it’s thing

T1=5eth 2=10 3=15 4=20

[quasi canyon]

Tier 4 wouldnt stay the same as initial proposal, and even a 50% price decline in that 5ETH tier 1 start price would keep the average player out of the running. The team still wants these lands accessible. Your numbers are much too high

[south belfry]

20 eth is the original proposal for t4 so I’m keeping that the same and just working down from there

[quasi canyon]

Why would lower tiers increase and not tier 4? Makes no sense

[south belfry]

It was .5, 1.5, 5 and 20

[south belfry]

Because there’s likely to be no gas war for something that expensive compared to a T1 at .5 eth

20 eth is out of a lot of peoples price point where as .5eth is basically in everyone’s price point

[quasi canyon]

It would increase the relative value of t4 and more people would try for that…..and theres significantly less of t4…. Dont make no sense man

[south belfry]

I don’t understand how it would make more people try for something that’s already 60k to start

[quasi canyon]

Then we wont agree man. Its basic market principles that you arent understanding here

The relative value of t4 will increase if everything below it is more expensive, but t4 stays the same

[south belfry]

The Jump from t3 to t4 is 15 eth with the old proposal so it can even be 4,8,12,20

The point is they want to avoid the gas war which will most likely happen at the lowest priced item that’s in everyone’s range which would be a tier 1 at .5-1.5 eth

Less people have 60k laying around compared to the vast majority that have 3.5k worth of silv

[quasi canyon]

Youre saying the same thing again. I personally believe t1 should be in the 1.5-2ETH range, with the proportional pricing increases as the original IIP. Whatever is decided is cool, but your numbers make zero sense

[hazy jewel]

i'm still worried that i might pay some fees when i click buy it now and have no land. Are we sure we can't solve this problem ?

[timber sapphire]

Don't buy anything 👀

[south belfry]

Tier 3 being 5 eth and tier 4 going to 20 eth makes no sense either but it’s still on there

[hazy jewel]

We found the smart one, thanks god

[quasi canyon]

The discrepancy in price is because of the differences in resources

[south belfry]

There’s not 3x as many resources as a t3 though

[quasi canyon]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[south belfry]

So a 30% boost over tier 3 validates at 3x increase lol

[quasi canyon]

+the additional resource landmarks… Let me be clear im not saying 3x is the correct increase, but t4 price it definitely needs to increase if the tiers below it increase

[south belfry]

Well you’re saying it needs to be higher even if you increase t3 a little if it’s not the correct increase then why does it need to increase if tier 3 does

[quasi canyon]

Youre beating a dead horse bro

[south belfry]

It’s still a Dutch auction and the price will go down

[quasi canyon]

You cant use that to justify altering the relative value of the land tiers

[untold relic]

If starting price will be higher than plots will sell for more that's psychological. So it's better to go for normal suggested prices (better for you). (example if tier 1 starts at 5 eth it will be sold for 3 eth and if it starts from 1.25 eth it will be sold for 0.9 eth)

[vivid cipher]

From one pinned comment from JohnnyA….
With that in mind the current view is to add the following production boosts for Fuel and Element extraction:

T1 - 0% boost
T2 - 10% boost over T1
T3 - 20% boost over T1
T4 - 50% Boost over T1
T5 - 100% Boost over T1

When combined with existing site increases per tier, and the landmarks (both as per current design), this gives a 2.5-3.3x boost to overall production from one tier to the next

[south belfry]

People just simply won’t buy the tier 1 at 5eth

[quasi canyon]

Yeah viggy just isnt seeing it pelican

Im out. Hope you get it eventually viggy

[vivid cipher]

Yeah no worries guys.

[south belfry]

It was only an example to have the DA effectively work at tier 1 since that would be the highest chance for gas wars in that tier

At a .5-1.5 valuation

[analog inlet]

So much this there is a lot they don't understand about the actual purpose of the land sale or the auction itself.

They just like being disruptive at this point and baiting people. it better if people just don't engage anymore

[south belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/allstate-gotta-be-quicker-than-that-fishing-gif-11607646

[hazy jewel]

where can i find a deep explanation on how lands are intended to work: regarding what they supply etc ?

[vivid cipher]

In the pins. Start at the oldest one and work your way up.

[hazy jewel]

ty

[solar topaz]

In theory, the starting price should not matter at all. Say, all different tiers start out at 50 ETH. We would have to discuss the length of the auction so each plot stays in the relevant price range long enough, but other than that... why not start with 50 ETH?

The thing is: by setting lower starting prices or different prices for different tiers, you implicitly give clues as to what you think would be fair

[south belfry]

They would have to degrade faster than higher ones because obviously a tier one wouldn’t be anywhere near worth a tier 4 based of the total amount and what it can produce

[solar topaz]

If every buyer would be clear about his own price point (which they won't be, because that involves deep analysis, thinking and such stuff), they would just buy where they want and that's it

the starting price should also not impact how available a tier is for the "average player"

[south belfry]

They all degrade at the same rate though I was saying the tier 1 has the most vulnerability for gas wars even with 1.5 as a proposed price

[solar topaz]

That is just thinking based on the usual "first come, first serve" mechanics with fixed prices

[south belfry]

I just gave the example and solution since people seem to think the prices were too low and in reality tier 1 is the most vulnerable for being too low

[solar topaz]

my comment was not an answer, but an addition to what I said before 😉

[south belfry]

The tiers I’ve seen people say they would buy right away is 1 and 2 with the old prices, wether it be fomo or because their staking helped them earn enough silv2 but that was also when ilv was 1700 which would be 3x what the value is now

So if people would buy t2 at 1.5 instantly the same would go for if t1 became 1.5

Which is what they’re trying to avoid

[potent dock]

sILV supply has pretty much 3x'd in that time, so available spending power is roughly the same. It's not about trying to force ETH spending though IMO, that ship sailed months ago, and cannot be simply fixed through price increases. The sILV supply is actively outpacing the amount that should be spent on land in the first sale. The focus should be on a fair land sale.

[south belfry]

That’s why I also suggested launching 40k plots since realistically we were supposed to be able to play for 3-6 months or whatever and there was the idea of doing 1 more before the main game dropped but now that both are coming in Q2 it would make sense to just lump them together

There’s also illuvitars for silv to be spent on coming up

40k would be fair enough to give everyone a chance to get some skin in the game and probably use up enough silv to get those eth sales in

[sacred dragon]

Do we know when are the next land sales?

[marsh sage]

Well have 5x or 10x or 15x the future buyers for the second land sale based on the game being launched. Better to wait on more plots as demand will be higher by then and will command more of a premium. Scarcity is good for the DAO.

[paper flame]

Keep up the good work Viggy. Gotta keep these Rev Dis Bros in check. I been invested since July 21 and we deserve a fair deal on land!

[south belfry]

Lol I like what blickter said it’s not to force eth sales but people seem to only want the price increase for more rev dis not fairness and some people have no interest in land

There’s still a bunch of silv2 holders that hold less silv than what can be used to even get a t1 or 2

[little moon]

Yeah thank goodness for the dutch auction format. I would be very worried about the fariness of the landsale if it was flat price, especially with the amount of sILV in circulation.
Letting people decide to purchase at whatever price they feel comfortable with will make sure nobody misses out on the opportunity to be a landowner.
I do hope they schedule a second landsale not too long after the first. I think it would be great to do it around July to ride the hype of the open beta launch plus increasing the supply earlier on will reduce the supply shock from later sales if the price of land appreciates.

[paper flame]

Rev Dis Bros = boring investors.
Land owners = active gamers.

[little moon]

What about the revdis bros who also own land?

[paper flame]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-jewels-gold-king-gif-4656428

[vast gate]

When talking about the land sale, prices are set in ETH. You are correct that ILV price was 3x then compared to now but buying power was about 2x. It is because you have to look at the price ratio of ILV to ETH. Back then it was about 37% (1700/4600) and now it’s about 18% (530/3000).

[low geode]

So do you think that land should be cheaper starting prices than what was suggested?

[vast gate]

I am fine with the 2.5x starting prices that have been suggested

But if we are strictly talking based on purchasing power then maybe it shouldn’t be quite 2.5x assuming that was fair. However, there are other factors in play and we really don’t know if 2.5x is the correct starting price increase to have a successful Dutch auction

[low geode]

Yeah. Im@just really trying to gauge where I need to be to be realistic with sILV funds to have a legitimate chance for a T4 or T3

Lol which is what everyone is doing

[vast gate]

Gotcha. Yea it’s tough to know right now. Tough to plan but we kind of need to plan now and don’t know since the IIP isn’t out yet. I get why it’s not out yet but just gotta do what we think is best I guess

T4 huh? You must have made a bunch on your ethlizards lol

[low geode]

Hey a lizard has to dream.

I don’t even know if that’s realistic of me to be honest.

[vast gate]

Never know until the auction. Gotta see that price drop

[low geode]

Facts

[south belfry]

It could be just as successful at original prices as it is 2.5x, definitely a lot of super high expectations it’s going to all sell out instantly

But with zero marketing and zero Information and gameplay 🤷🏻‍♂️

[low geode]

This

[vast gate]

that could happen, so you want higher starting prices then?

[low geode]

I don’t think that is going to matter to be honest. People have had a long time to prepare and I believe that the hype is real. Perfect world, I want it cheap enough for me to get one expensive enough to be good for the DAO to prosper and everyone that is staked to make some revdis

[south belfry]

No I’m just saying expectations are just being made extreme

[vast gate]

ah ok, yea could be. Hopefully it calms down after the first few batches. I just hope it's not a gas war and everyone is trying to buy at starting price

[south belfry]

I doubt it would be even at the original prices because people naturally wait out Dutch auctions

People have been burned many times from projects so people are usually more hesitant with DA

Plus you want it cheap enough to where there can be more unique holders so there’s not that many unused lands

But as said for something with zero marketing, and no concrete information and functionalities/ more gameplay isn’t that appealing to people

[low geode]

I think the fomo will be real. Too many people have drunk the Illuvium kool aid, myself for sure, I am a true believer. I don’t think things will last long at all.

[south belfry]

Coupled with a proposed price increase , to get people in last minute to do enough research may put some off

There’s definitely some hype for the land especially from those of us who have been waiting since November

There’s 18k token holders and 4k silv holders so atleast 1/3 of the community is interested in land wether all 4k can afford atleast a tier 1 who knows but at rough estimate

Or they may just want illuvitars

[inland hearth]

Land sale this month?

[south belfry]

I just want the land to do good and expecting super high prices for the first sale and then having 80k more drop in the future is a lot of volume and it’s a lot healthier for the growth to start lower and slowly gain steam

As well as the people who buy the first batch are gonna be extremely more progressed in their land than the future ones

[low geode]

No announcement yet

[inland hearth]

Mhalo

[little moon]

Just to clarify there is no “proposed price increase.”
There were never any prices approved in the first place so there can’t be an increase. It’s more just ‘there will be proposed prices’

[south belfry]

Well the first iip that was approved had prices so that seemed pretty approved to me🤷🏻‍♂️

If that’s the logic then land was never actually approved

[low geode]

Yeah but we know land is happening…just not the starting price! 😂

[little moon]

No IIP that has been voted on included pricing. The only land related IIP was IIP 10 which approved the land project. You can check out the governance site from #🔗〕helpful-links if you want to see for yourself.

[low geode]

Thanks Ser

[south belfry]

Well the document seemed to been thrown around with confidence, and with this excerpt it clearly wasn’t thought through enough “Rationale
By providing all the details of the Land Sale early, we can make sure the community are well informed. All the details above have been thought through carefully, and we feel they are mature enough for the council to consider. Changes to the above are, of course, acceptable. However the community should understand that some changes will result in increased time to market. But as always, we urge the community to focus on getting things done well, rather than just fast.”

Yes I see somethings will change with increased time to market but seems everything needs to be redone

[little moon]

Yeah that’s why there is going to be a new IIP regarding the sale with the final details. The draft in the pins was well received other than the pricing so I would expect we see something similar to that go to a vote.

[south belfry]

Kinda defeats the purpose if they’re gonna go along with something that wasn’t voted for yet all the way through and then finally make something final don’t you think?

[little moon]

Defeats the purpose of what?
One IIP is to start production of IZ and there will be a second to approve the details of the first sale. The team, council, and community have had ongoing discussions about the best way to do things and the majority of the community is in agreement.
Seems like a pretty reasonable process to me.

[hearty cradle]

Still no IIP ?

[south belfry]

Technically the 3 days sale wasn’t voted for yet but we’re going through with it

My point is if things are supposed to need a vote why are somethings confirmed that aren’t voted for yet and others not

[little moon]

It’s not ‘officially’ confirmed. It’s just assumed that it will be approved that way because pretty much everybody supported the idea.

[vivid cipher]

I believe the first land sale IIP was passed. With the caveat that the prices would need to be reevaluated closer to the sale

[little moon]

It actually never got sent to a vote. IIP 10 got a vote but the draft for the sale was never voted on.

[south belfry]

Well it’s been pretty confirmed by every mod in here lol so idk

[vivid cipher]

You’re right

[little moon]

I don’t need a mod to confirm it. You can go look at the snapshot page and look for yourself. That’s the beauty of blockchain.

[analog inlet]

NOTHING about the land sale has passed becase original iip was rejected

[south belfry]

I’m saying numerous mods have said it will be a 3day sale even though it’s not voted for

Maybe it will be a 4 day sale with the new iip

[little moon]

Totally could be.

[south belfry]

Mystery lol

[little moon]

Illuvitars was the one that got approved with price stipulation because the whole thing got rolled into one proposal.

[south belfry]

That means the number of plots to sell can change too

[little moon]

Not without a change to IIP 10

[south belfry]

How many of each tier*

[vivid cipher]

It would be a bit odd to add to the work that had already been done. But if it was realized that more needed sold in the first sale then I guess that could make sense to add more days. Not just 20k sold. But meh. Doesn’t seem likely.

[south belfry]

The amount of resource plots on a land could change too since that’s not confirmed

[marsh sage]

I haven't seen hardly anyone else in the entire community arguing that the number of plots or 3-day duration is off. That's why no one else is discussing it. Many felt that the initial prices were too low which is why it would need to be addressed in a future IIP. Yes, it's always possible to go back and decide something from an earlier IIP needs to be updated. But that's very inefficient so unless it's a huge issue it's not likely to happen.

[amber atlas]

hey folks, how is everyone? sorry I'm not around here so much, I've mostly handed over IZ to Nick, Khaled and the dev team

[south belfry]

The point is none of that was confirmed but a lot of it is being set in stone without a vote

Aside from the prices

[amber atlas]

the number of plots is in pricing the IIP, and will be in the final pricing IIP

(no change planned)

the IIP is about parameters for the land sale not just pricing

[south belfry]

I’m just being told that the prices are not final in that proposal that was never voted for but everything else seems to be final even though it wasn’t voted for yet

[amber atlas]

all of the parameters will be in the IIP, its called "IIP-x+Parameters+for+Illuvium+Zero+Land+Sale"

we don't expect much of the rest to be controversial

[south belfry]

Yeah that’s the document in discussion rn

[amber atlas]

but it does all sit hand in hand

[south belfry]

I’m just saying it kinda defeats the purpose for stuff to be acted on and confirmed so far if it’s not actually voted for yet

[amber atlas]

they are parameters they could be changed, its just that they are all related

[south belfry]

Could have always done a separate price iip

[amber atlas]

remember also that the game going out in the alpha version is not connected to real Fuel generation

so we will likely have a subsequent IIP after we get data form alpha and before we go live with real Fuel produciton

obviously many parameters are 'locked in' before that

number of sites, sale prices, timings, etc

but we can still adjust other paremeters post sale via a new IIP if the balance isn't right (most notable produciton boost)

[south belfry]

Which basically means the only thing that’s being voted for is price

[amber atlas]

no: price, numebr of sites, timing, etc

but no one has really disagreed with any of these

it could be split in to multiple IIPs

there is some beenfit to more atomic decisions

[south belfry]

Seems to be a lot of disagreement on price lately haha

[amber atlas]

oh price for sure

everything else seems to be okay

so yes, effectively it becomes a proxy for a vote on price

but if thats because everything else is pretty much agreed, then its not a big deal is it?

if we had a vote on every statement and parameter we could have 20+ votes

[south belfry]

That’s the thing I and a handful of others don’t see the current pricing as a big deal

[amber atlas]

but noted that maybe 2 votes/IIPs makes sense

[south belfry]

Been saying as of now it’s still a land sale valued over 100m

[potent dock]

Hey Johnny, good to see you around again 🙂

I just wanted to confirm - On launch, it's still looking like Elements will NOT be tradable, and Fuel will be buyable/sellable via the Fuel/ETH LP?

I know that was the original plan, I just wanted to check if it's still the case, there was mention of Elements potentially being tradable within IL:Z.

[south belfry]

Without any concrete gameplay, marketing or information

[amber atlas]

Launch - Alpha - Fulel is not tradable either

[south belfry]

Everything is being wiped before overworld too right? Except bps

[amber atlas]

Launch - Beta - Fuel will be sellable 100% (and buyable in to your wallet), but maybe all kinds of trading will be in place by then

so its not a lock that element trading can't happen, but its "inside of IZ server" trading vs ERC20 trading

[amber atlas]

yes

[simple juniper]

correct

[south belfry]

We need more Johnny he has all the answers

[amber atlas]

I'm just more confident to say something that's 95% right 😉

[south belfry]

Lol it’s been a while

[amber atlas]

Khaled is new game designer for IZ, I asked him and Nick to spend some more time here

Khaled has already got a few new awesome systems in, and has some big ideas

he's much better at this stuff than me

[south belfry]

But if johnnys lurking in here something must be here

[potent dock]

Just out of curiosity, what are you working on now?

[amber atlas]

being the CTO 😉

beyond all the boring stuff like hiring and taking to vendors, etc, etc, I've been doing a bit of work with the backend team

[gaunt slate]

Long time no see, but congrats on the promotion my friend!!!

[amber atlas]

it was always my job

[gaunt slate]

Oh, jebus. I didn't know that. My bad lol

[amber atlas]

hah all good

I leave the public stuff to Aaron and Kieran and Grant 🙂

but IZ was my baby, so liked to chat to people a bit more proactively about that

[south belfry]

@amber atlas do you think it would make sense to drop 40k plots or maybe even 30k for the first sale since we were supposed to be able to play for a few months before the main game dropped and then some more when it drops ,now that both are probably coming Q2

Since the hack messed everything up

[amber atlas]

I wouldn't want to change the current sale, but maybe it might be worth pushing a second sale fairly quickly

after main games are released the hype for that second sale could be pretty cool

[south belfry]

But you can’t really price a 2nd land sale to plots that have building done to them already would the 2nd be a DA as well or just a set price at whatever the floor for and unused land at that tier is

Nvm it’d be wiped anyway lmao

[rare oak]

There was a hack?

[hearty cradle]

welcome back johnny
we started a #FreeJohnnyA campaign last night

[south belfry]

If it comes that fast wouldn’t it make sense to keep original prices and bump them up the next sale?

[potent dock]

#📣〕announcements message Quite a while ago, yes. It was relatively small, but it threw off timelines by creating a lot of extra work to fix.

[south belfry]

If this sale gets increased 2x potentially would that make the next one get increased 2x aswell?

[amber atlas]

not just fix, but really put in place a more rigorous approach to everything we do, form discord, through to code pipelines, through to external audits

[hearty cradle]

fuel as erc20, can be withdrawn from IZ to our wallet?

[hearty cradle]

2nd land sale price must be higher than the land market price

[amber atlas]

Fuel in IZ lives on the server in your 'storage' structures, you invoke an action on the Zero-Point Transducer (structure) to send that to the DAO

in return you get ETH

however as a convenience action we will add button that transters to your wallet (behind the scenes it will be sold to DAO then bough to your wallet)

[hearty cradle]

ohh so fuel in IZ is not minted?

[south belfry]

But if it is a da and goes lower than the floor it just tanks land as a whole

[hearty cradle]

it should, otherwise people are just gonna buy them from the market

[amber atlas]

no there's too much complexity in generation and storage inside the game to go direct to blockchain, plus we need to ensure you sell to the DAO so we can add the 19x from the DAO (thus ensuring the 5%)

[hearty cradle]

got it thanks for the clarification. You da best

[south belfry]

Are we gonna get a collect all feature for multiple lands?

[hearty cradle]

you wish

[south belfry]

Not to get them all at once but like you go into your land and click the button to collect it then go to the next

[hearty cradle]

let the scholars do that for ya

[south belfry]

Maybe I wanna be a masochist and play them all myself

[amber atlas]

short term no, but its like 10 seconds to collect from all your buildings

the main question is what do you do next

triggering the next set of actions, etc

now down the road we might add some automation (like auto collect and restart previous activity), in the end we do what people want

[south belfry]

Mega city of course

[hearty cradle]

viggy is buying 20 T1

[amber atlas]

but right now we still want to encourage people to interact, as is typical in such games

[south belfry]

All around a t4 so I can rake them

[amber atlas]

lol

[hearty cradle]

make them call you lord viggy the great

ill be your baron neighbour viggy

[south belfry]

Is there an idea to add a clash of clans style element to this so you can raid others?

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-burgundy-escalated-quickly-gif-9744555

[south belfry]

Obviously not take their stuff but just something for fun

[hearty cradle]

plunder fun?

[south belfry]

Or defenses to defend against wild illuvial raids

[amber atlas]

its been talked about, but its probably a different game

(or an extension, like there are space ports above the planet you can raid, taht are connected to your land, ut not 'part' of it)

[south belfry]

Honestly illuvium could totally rock a clash royale style game

[potent dock]

You can steal their data. It can be called "Illuvium Facebook".

[amber atlas]

I actually love the idea of a game where you fight for territory and that territory is actual NFTs

[south belfry]

Exactly lolll

[amber atlas]

but its a bit too much of a bait and swtich from IZ Land 🙂

[hearty cradle]

turf war

[south belfry]

Mega cities for sure tho

[hearty cradle]

you wont get it viggy we gonna 10x the starting price

[south belfry]

Civ6 goes ILZ

[south belfry]

Reeee rev dis bros

[hearty cradle]

born and bred

i prolly just gonna buy a T2 and call it a day

[south belfry]

Gotta get them sick skins

[south belfry]

Are skins going to have models in their bps for ILZ or are they just going to be name place holders

[amber atlas]

it will be more textures and particles rather than models (maybe some models), but Day 1 it might be a bit of a mix of that and names

[south belfry]

Gotta know if you get something cool lol

[south belfry]

Lastly is the land in a fully functional state as of now for an alpha

[amber atlas]

the land is just data on the blockchain, its not functional, but the game is functional based on that data, some features being added or tweaked in relation to Khaled's designs, but mostly bugs and balance now

[south belfry]

So we could play tomorrow if it dropped

And I just see that as land real soon lol

[amber atlas]

I mean the team is playing now, but there are a few too many bugs to say it is releasable

[south belfry]

I mean it would be wiped regardless so wouldn’t it help having more eyes on the bugs to report them?

[hearty cradle]

one last thing, does a T1 and higher Tiers land have the same chance to scan bp ?

[amber atlas]

some are too significant, we don't want to release product with known bugs, we want polished stuff to come to the community

[south belfry]

Fortnite was in beta for over 2 years granted it was so pushing patches was cheaper but would be nice to experience things getting fixed real time

[amber atlas]

(also we haven't plugged in to IMX, IZ currently only talks to L1 as per original landsale plan, so there is one feature yet to build)

[south belfry]

How hard is plugging in to imx

[amber atlas]

thier APIs are nice, so it should be minimal, I just know its not done yet 🙂

[hearty cradle]

are we able to see buildings progress on IMX?

[amber atlas]

no, IMX uses the SVG land plot images same as the sale app

although that is a super f'n cool idea

[hearty cradle]

cuz building progress is kept for sale right?

[amber atlas]

yes

[hearty cradle]

except for research progress

[amber atlas]

(or at least it will be hopefully at beta, if not soon after)

[south belfry]

Does that mean land sale will be on imx L2?

[amber atlas]

the land sale auction (buy events) is on L1 but it mints to L2 (IMX) yes

[hearty cradle]

so the price of a plot should account for building progress

[south belfry]

Alright I see

[amber atlas]

yes, but we haven't fleshed out how this will integrate with Illuvidex

[hearty cradle]

there will be so much time and cost (speed ups) spent

[amber atlas]

(to be clear we want people to trade in our marketplace not IMX)

[south belfry]

The marketplace will be L2 correct?

[amber atlas]

yes

[south belfry]

Cause only there rev dis happens not imx

[amber atlas]

actually it maybe both L2 and L1 (depending on if assets have been moved to L1... I'm actually not 100% on that one, but I think it is both)

[hearty cradle]

ohh i wonder if we can trade elements between landowners

[amber atlas]

I'm haeavily invovled in the sale itself, but not so much the Illuvidex as a marketplace

will find out for sure... waiting ...

-> eventually L2 and L1, initially L2

[south belfry]

#keeporiginalpricing

[hearty cradle]

#10xoriginalpricing

[south belfry]

🤣

[long tendon]

@hearty cradle the #FreeJohnnyA movement worked!

[amber atlas]

that was a thing? I thought you were joking

[spring jetty]

So is late April/early May the estimated date for land iip or the sale?

[long tendon]

Tbh, it was pretty short lived cause after a few hours youre back in IZ channel lol.

[amber atlas]

was purely coincidence which is odd

[amber atlas]

I leave the dates to Kieran

[long tendon]

Johnny, considering the IIP will take 3 days for it to be passed from date of posting. Do you have an internal schedule for when the proposal will be implemented? Ex. one or two weeks after its passed thats when its implemented?

[amber atlas]

its minimal work to implement, there are a set of parameters that get fed in to a deployment script

but release isn't just about the technical side of implementing

reviews, final testing (we want to do a full dress rehearsal), sign-offs, marketing, etc

that said the IIP coming a few weeks before the sale was more about giving people time to digest

[little moon]

Yay Johnny is back!

[long tendon]

Makes sense. There's definitely a need to do a marketing build up to the date of the land sale not to mention the how-to-instructional videos associated with it.

[amber atlas]

I think also marketing can be a lot stronger when backed up by council approved figures

would kind of suck to make a bunch of nice explainer videos and promos, then have to retract them all because numbers or some other key factors were wrong!

[long tendon]

Looks like Andrew will have his handful with the voice-over as soon as IIP gets passed.

[hearty cradle]

IIP -> marketing -> landsale ?

[dusty ruin]

we just need to pull over the WoW community

[hearty cradle]

lol

[dusty ruin]

am i wrong? thats an instant 100bil

[hearty cradle]

just watch asmongold take on nft

[dusty ruin]

that would be game over

[south belfry]

They don’t get NFTs yet

Better to just let us early supporters buy the land

They’ll figure it out on land sale 3 or 4

[empty path]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-gif-19121692

[timber sapphire]

I got my sILV2 ready, you can announce it now

[empty path]

Finally brian, everybody was waiting for this. I'll let the team know!

[timber sapphire]

👍

[empty path]

What do you guys think? More activity on youtube, twitter, airdrops... Team stepping up the marketing for the land sale? 👀

[fierce fern]

If the Landsale really is at the end of this month.... then they need to start now

[empty path]

I still think there should be an IIP first

[fierce fern]

well everything is a little off date.
I really dont know what to expect

[timber sapphire]

There would be right?

[empty path]

I got a feeling there is more to come this week

(This is my personal feeling and no official information)

[timber sapphire]

That's what im telling myself for the last few weeks now

[fierce fern]

the waiting for this landsale is so exciting cause we all expect so much... there is so much hype in our community....
Living up to this expectations will be hard for them

[eager ruin]

Any ETA when the land sale will happen?

[empty path]

Soon

https://tenor.com/view/wen-cavemen-caveworld-when-game-gif-24812134

[eager ruin]

Alright I'll check back next week. I'm hyped for this game.

[shy wedge]

Can Illuivum Zero be played on PC? or is it only available on mobile?

Also, from all the ama, we know that ILV land make about 5% of the in-game revenue. Is it 5% of the in-game revenue + however much the resources+ potential earnings from blueprints? Or 5% of the in-game revenue is roughly equal to how much the resources are worth?

[potent dock]

It produces 5% of the Fuel. Blueprints would be on top of Fuel production.

Fuel is the main thing you use to do things like cure shards, travel, etc. in Illuvium. So it translates to roughly 5% of revenue.

[shy wedge]

wait. I thought land provides 100% of the fuel, which accountable for 5% of the revenue

[potent dock]

No, the DAO tap produces 95% of the Fuel, Land produces 5% of the Fuel. Fuel will account for almost all in-game spending though.

As far as playing on PC goes - I'm not aware of any updates on this front, but JohnnyA posted this quite a few months ago. #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

@thorn wren Any chance you know if IL:Z will be playable on PC?

[shy wedge]

Ty

[boreal barn]

wen

[empty path]

Beta first

[south belfry]

Does that mean I’d have to get an android to play? It should be able to on pc as well

[thorn wren]

Even if its not ported to Pc, you can always use an emulator like bluestacks to play it on the pc

[hearty cradle]

or nox?

[south belfry]

Ok cool

Cause Apple master race over here

[hearty cradle]

both bluestacks and nox have a pup (bundleware) included in their zip

[south belfry]

I feel like this information should be made really clear in the sale because that would really sway a lot of peoples decisions if they buy or not

And if people buy and realize that and only have an apple or have to jump through hoops they might feel robbed

The true gamers will use the emulators

[hearty cradle]

true gamers use emulator within a vmware

on a remote host

through vpn

[fierce fern]

[mystic gull]

They are targeting to have it on Android and Apple. If Apple restrictions doesn't allow to have the game, then there is nothing to do

[rancid lion]

To be fair as a middle class person with limited resources (that has poured a lot of my spare cash into ILV) if I'm buying a land then I can afford a spare cheapo android smartphone to gather IZ resources on.

[south belfry]

Well people are worried about gas wars so the sentiment isn’t there

[rancid lion]

Not sure I follow, big difference between a bunch of people trying to buy the same land and wasting a TON of gas who knows how many times vs buying a cheapo phone on ebay.

[severe oracle]

does anyone know if there is a finite amount of fuel or is there a chance of inflation? I understand that land owners will gain 5% of the revenue and a flexible range that allows for an economic experience, but I wonder what happens if people are not forging shards in the main game and land owners keep pumping out fuel which is being matched in ratio by the DAO automatically...

i need to read up 😄

[south belfry]

Gas will still be an issue if there’s 4k people watching only 287 plots at a time

[empty path]

Dutch Auction fixes most of this

[hearty cradle]

the DAO need to buy fuel and burn them, until there is nothing in treasury

[reef echo]

not all of the sILV will be used for the land sail

[south belfry]

For higher priced items

Lower priced items still run into the issue

[empty path]

The system works the same for all price ranges

[hearty cradle]

guys we have been visiting this topic for decades

[south belfry]

Tier 1 is in more peoples price range than a t4 so more people are gonna click buy on t1 at once

[hearty cradle]

this starting to feel like an eternal damnation

[severe oracle]

ah that completes the 'cycle' thanks

[reef echo]

by that logic after 12 or 13hr most of that traffic will be done, leaving most of the auction with no gas wars.

[south belfry]

It’s just that people think there’s gonna be zero gas wars

[hearty cradle]

im guessing this is the reason why they sell land in 5 stages. the number of land must follow the growth of new players

[severe oracle]

makes sense they can progressively smooth the process as more land is introduced

[reef echo]

there will be gas wars but its not going to be so bad if you just wait some time. Really 4k address watching 287 plots an hour is a low ratio imo, thats is acually great. I think somewhere around 60% of the sILV will be used for land sale and the rest people will be saving for illuvatars, resourses in game and to build a deck etc.

[south belfry]

I know this but people have blinders on thinking the gas wars won’t happen. I just gave 4k as an estimate since that’s how many silv2 wallets who knows how many can actually even afford a t1 or will pay with eth, it’s just the minimum expected to be interested in land

I see it happening more towards the end of the sale if the t1 start dropping super low

[hearty cradle]

investing in t1 is not a good idea

[south belfry]

T1 should be something you get to make your mega city that’s gonna be the main use case, or to have them in different regions to scan for bps

Get a T2 and then find a t1 next to it or whichever you go about

Or just buy a t1 next to a t4 or something to sell to that person in the future

[wind bolt]

hey guys I don't know if this has been discussed but once the land sale happens, will the illuvidex be up and running afterwards? for secondary sales of the land?

[muted moth]

Considering the sale will be on the IlluviDEX, then I'd assume yes

[analog inlet]

IMO i don't think anyone knowledgeable about this subject thinks that .

The team will do what they can to lessen that raising prices may mitigate some of the potential for gas was and raise potential gains for the dao and stakers so win win

I think a ton of people will pay gas and get nothing but oh well that's just a reality for a DA if you don't want to take that risk you should not even try.

in the end it will be on the consumer if the lose gas money for trying not the team

[south belfry]

i dont think that either but this may be a lot of peoples first DA or nft buy, not everyone is or spends their time in here and you're right about a lot of people paying gas and not getting anything thats just what ive been voicing. But just pushing the narrative that the DA will fix gas war issues is kinda reckless

people need to be aware that if someone buys at the same time you do you fight them in gas. since this isn't a linear mint and you don't get put into a que

[paper flame]

When purchasing land should we pick the highest gas amount?

[muted moth]

Might not be a bad idea to increase chances of your transaction getting through; I'm probably going to analyze what gas limits people are using in the first day or so and then decide what I should use.

[floral locust]

You can do this using etherscan?

[marble bough]

Is there somewhere I can see the estimated prices that the different tiers will start at?

[potent dock]

It would be pretty straightforward to stop new transactions from going through via the Illuvidex as soon as a transaction is pending though. Could make it lock up the plot for like 45s or something reasonable like that. People could still direct mint from the contract, but those people would be a minority, I'm assuming most people will be using the Illuvidex to properly identify where their plot is.

I shouldn't say it's straightforward - I don't know that for sure. But it certainly seems like it should be possible.

[amber atlas]

most people who are looking to front run purchases will be using bots and interacting direct with contract

but also the illuvidex purchases interacts directly with the blockchain from the client (web3), and a blockchain purchase (L1 event) needs time to be confirmed, so we can't really do much useful in that regard

[potent dock]

I suppose those people don't really care where the plot is located either.

[amber atlas]

(even if they do they can encode in to their bot)

its a pretty risky bot strategy though, if you front run, you ar ealso buying at the price of the highest bidder

now that highest bidder transaction fails, so the highest bidder is still 'live'

so they bid again at this high price

and you front run them

[potent dock]

Yeah it seems not worth it. You end up paying more than the top bidder after your gas fees.

[amber atlas]

its not just that, you don't take them out of the market, so they will keep bidding high

imagine a case where one person wants to pay 5k, and 9 people want to pay 1k, and a bot wants to front run 5 land plots

(as an extreme example)

[potent dock]

So someone could theoretically abuse people's greasy bots to pump the revdis? I'm in.

[amber atlas]

a dumb bot would end up paying 5k 5 times 🙂

now you could say the bot waits for some dip, but whichever way you code it, you are always setting some point where you buy and don't take highest bidder out of market and at that point you always run in to the same problem as above

(if anything you probably encourage the highest bidder to bid more so they win)

[amber atlas]

something like that 🙂

(obviously real world has many different market pressures, but still seems like a pretty risky strategy to me)

[potent dock]

Frontrunning was never super high on my list of concerns, I was more wondering (or speculating) about whether it would be possible for the Illuvidex to disallow new transactions (only transactions initiated through the Illuvidex) on a plot that already has a pending transaction (for a short duration, like 3-4 blocks), as gas protection for non-botting buyers. I don't really think this scenario will arise very often though.

[amber atlas]

that could also have its own issues, because its pending you might be able 'lock' land by making a whole bunch of buy requests with low gas which are bound to fail

I think the Dutch auction is protection enough, it is the blockchain, transactions can fail, I think most buyers understand that you will need to ensure a reasonable amount of gas is supplied, and there is some risk of gas loss... I don't foresee too many clashes, maybe at the start of the sale when people want to be 'first' there will be a few

I imagine discord will be filled with people sharing details and data during the sale

[carmine hemlock]

WIll it even be possible for small fish to buy land in the first auction?

[analog inlet]

no one can answer that its an auction NOT a retail sale.

[carmine hemlock]

It is an auction. Please check the FAQ. (Dutch Auction)

[analog inlet]

that's what i said.... soo no one can answer your question. everything could goe for max prices there is no way to know

[sleek glade]

Just a silly question… does it matter where your land will be located when you buy?

[lapis ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/when-wen-naru-yummi-yummi-universe-gif-23030317

[hearty cradle]

yes

[sleek glade]

How and what does it influence?

[amber atlas]

Region influences Illuvials you can scan

exact grid position influences what is nearby which has ramifications for the future megacity feature

from pinned scanning doc:

a standard discovery is something from the pool of illuvials associated with the region in which your land is based

exact chances may vary in final design (post alpha balancing), and you can increase (and decrease) your base chance through various in game features... but there will always be vastly more chance of scanning something from your region rather than from another region

[hearty cradle]

and land tiers doesnt have different base chances? So pratically a T1 has the same chance as a T5 to scan the same illuvials in a region?

[south belfry]

this is what i was gonna bring up lol, just got caught up in lego starwars lmao

[amber atlas]

scanning/research is not affected by Tier (beyond the indirect effect of being able to generate a lot more resources to drive the activities)

(don't discount that effect though, these actions cost resources, so if you are constantly waiting for resources, then it slows down your scanning and research considerably)

[south belfry]

Another thing in order to interact with the contract you would need to know the token id of the land being sold wouldn’t you? Is that information provided in the illuvidex

[amber atlas]

yes, and more

you can interact directly with L1, but you need information that comes from illuvidex to be able to do so

[south belfry]

I see

When do you find out about what resources you got is it directly after mint?

[amber atlas]

there is an L1 view function that can be invoked directly after buy event is confirmed, but presumably most people will wait for the Illuvidex to be updated, which will generally be a minute or so after the event is confirmed

[south belfry]

Cool

[hearty cradle]

can we transfer resources between the lands in the same wallet?

[lapis ledge]

What's the minimum size for adjacent plots of land to be considered a megacity?

[south belfry]

The idea is 2x2 and 3x3

And it’s not entirely confirmed yet maybe in the future, would be cool like how it is in sandbox

[dusty ruin]

you mean like wow arena?

[lapis ledge]

Oof 2x2 plots. At least 4T1.

And that is even if no one buys the adjacent ones because location for each plot in each batch is random.

[south belfry]

Yeah I don’t see too many next to eachother for the first sale probably more spread out

[little moon]

They are mostly grouped up into clusters

[earnest nymph]

Hi, guys. I have another question: Does completing your building faster than anyone give you any bonus? Does this apply for Lands of same Tier or for all Tiers? Thanks

[lapis ledge]

For each batch?

[amber atlas]

many are close together its not random is a clumping algorithm

each time a plot is selected it makes it more likely other plots near it will be selected

so some are outliers, even a few sitting on their own, but most are clumped up in to big groups

[south belfry]

That basically means if you want them next to eachother you’re only gonna get maybe 1 chance per batch to do so

[amber atlas]

(selected by the algorthim pre-sale)

we know what is going on sale before the sale

we just don't know what sites and site positions will be on it exactly

so once you bought 1 land, yes you would have to be vigilants and ready to pay more if you were trying to get a 3x3

[south belfry]

Alright, should still expect to buy multiple in a batch if you’re looking for a mega

[amber atlas]

depends also on how agressive other people are being

some people might have bots scanning for clusters of grouped land that is only 1-2 away from a megacity

[south belfry]

The sale is 24 hours a day for 3 days correct

[amber atlas]

yes

[south belfry]

Looks like no sleep for 3 days

https://tenor.com/view/love-on-the-brain-gif-18614990

[hearty cradle]

if we want to reduce gas war, isnt it better to make it random instead?
people who wants to build megacities can buy them on the secondary market

[fair temple]

So will Kieran be buying plots during the sale as well, knowing which plots will be sold? This way he can stack up on 3x3 or 4x4s very easily and would be a step ahead of us :o

(He said he wanted 500 plots a while ago, and he's bought a lot of sILV2 right?)

[lunar shell]

no, he hasn't bought sILV. What is more, he used to sell weekly his sILV rewards

[hearty cradle]

so the team knows which plot is going to be sold?

[fair temple]

Thats what JohnnyA just said. 🤔

[hearty cradle]

but the dev would have first hand information on everything anyway

[fair temple]

So giving them the opportunity to mint at the same time as the community who has less information would be unfair imo. So im just checking. Maybe he says: No. Kieran will have to buy them seperately from the market after the sale.

[hearty cradle]

it is unfair. And they can do that for any other price action events
there is no way to prevent insider trading

[soft spindle]

Surely there is a randomised algorithm that can be used that masks the upcoming land from the internal team

[hearty cradle]

"Masks"
lets not kid ourself

[fair temple]

I would expect the team to be ruled out from the land sale unless they share the information with the community. They believe in fairness, with a single point of starting for everyone. So we will also get rhe info, or they will not participate. 🤷

[soft spindle]

Yeah…. I work in Finance and we mask information from our operations staff all the time

[hearty cradle]

thats just impossible, and to be led to believe that is just worst

[fair temple]

They cant share which lands will be sold? That is silly.
Lets wait until JohnnyA replies :)

[hearty cradle]

right. i used to work in finance, i can see everything

[soft spindle]

Don’t think you worked in the same compliance climate that Finance is subject to these days. Privacy is a massive driver

[hearty cradle]

i worked in australia, and i can pull out any secret you want

[soft spindle]

I work in Australia too….. and manage implementation of workflow management. There are very strict Compliance requirements when submitting details to Operational staff

[hearty cradle]

there are alot of training and compliance requirement. It doesnt prevent people to pull out a query
and we are talking about a decentralized gamefi here

there no such thing as compliance in the space (yet)

and garf was worried about a co-founder frontrunning land sale

valid concern, but im cool with insider trading in the space, its part of the game

and how about revdis? do we get realtime data on revenue? Do we know when will the DAO buy ILV? And in what amount?
guess who's gonna have first hand information and press the button?

[fair temple]

But the button will only buy a 180th of what was spent. As the revdis would be distributed over a 6 month period, ensuring you cant frontrun the treasury.

In that sense you would have to buy now, before the treasury starts hahaha

[hearty cradle]

are we getting the IIP on that? Im totally in on that

[fair temple]

I think we will get a similar IIP before the revdis gets distributed. If the cofounders dont create one I will.

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-marvel-meme-what-heroes-do-gif-14703930

bro you gonna make a lot of enemies
powerful enemies, blue whales

[fair temple]

They all want to time the market? Hah jokes on them, I would be first!

[hearty cradle]

let me in

[fair temple]

And i think the Illuvium whales will be glad. as they will get more revdis this way. If outsider whales start pumping the price before the treasury buys then the stakeholders will get very little ILV each time.

[fallow yacht]

WEN

[empty path]

SOON

[amber atlas]

what plots are going to be sold will be known to all when the sale starts, there's not really any secret preparation to do

[hearty cradle]

damnit

there goes my megacities

[cyan dew]

How much gas in eth should we have prepared?

[timber sapphire]

Enough

[noble drum]

Question about using wallets for land. I assume we need to use a wallet when purchasing land during the land sale. But since this is a mobile game Will I need to import my wallet passphrase into my phone app in order to play and access my land. Or will I just have a Login/password ti access my land that presumably has already been connected to my wallet on the server side? My concern is, I use a hardware wallet and I don’t want to have to expose my passphrase by having to enter it into my phone.

[hearty cradle]

my experience with other mobile crypto game, you connect the wallet to your game account on the web

[noble drum]

So you mean you connect it on your PC and then “access” your account on your mobile device? So you wouldn’t need to expose your seed to your phone?

[hearty cradle]

yep

whats wrong with exposing seed to the phone?

i seed my phone all the time

[cyan dew]

how much exactly if you have 32 SILV v2?

[timber sapphire]

I have no idea sorry haha

Will be my first land sale

[cyan dew]

Np xd

[outer flint]

pretty good I‘m not up there 😂

hope to get a tier 2 nevertheless

[timber sapphire]

With how many?

[umbral badge]

Personally I think all team members should have the same opportunity to purchase as the Public. It is my understanding that there will be a Map showing the lots for sale, so everyone can see in advance

Think of it from a gamer perspective. How upsetting would it be, if the community rages and said you cannot even play or participate in the game you create with all your efforts and passion!

[quick pelican]

Hey everyone! Kinda new here. Do we have any clue when Zero is coming out?

[dire tiger]

no specific date yet. only that it will be in Q2 2022.

[slow lily]

Land sale in April or may?

[cyan dew]

TBA

[hearty cradle]

may i hope

[gaunt coral]

April for sure. No more delays

[analog inlet]

@gaunt coral
PSA: #🎮〕illuvium-zero Land Sale FAQ

no official date for land sale

please watch #📣〕announcements ouncements for more info anything new will appear there

• There is still no official dates the best we have got is vague guess on a ama
• No one but the admins know how much notice they are planning on giving before any major event land sale , illuvitar , open beta (full launch)
• land prices will most likely be higher than the 1st draft as the community rejected the first draft as consensus was the prices were to low
• If normal procedure is followed the order of progress should be

1. land sale IIP release
2. community discussion of IIP
3. council vote on IIP taking into account above community discussion
4. official date announcement if IIP is approved by council

[fierce fern]

After the new Video with Andrew... April doesent seem realistic to me

[dire tiger]

agree

[hearty cradle]

massive marketing will take weeks to a month i hope

[lapis ledge]

Which video?

[dire tiger]

look for it in Scoriox youtube

[lapis ledge]

Got it. Thanks.

[odd marlin]

https://youtu.be/2WXmN2Z6w0s?t=480

Andrew was mentioning a pretty long period of marketing, prior to the sale taking place. I suspect, like Jaganite said, this could be even a month or more of pre-sale marketing and educational content. So until that starts, we are at least a month away.

[hearty cradle]

he just said fck andrew?

[empty path]

Sounds like I have to watch this interview

[fierce fern]

End of April is History
If we are lucky its end of Mai

[timber sapphire]

Or dont do marketing to avoid gaswars 🧠

[south belfry]

this

[pure cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[hearty cradle]

lets IIP andrew so he cant do marketing mwahahahaa

[wind briar]

just be neighbors to the rich ones

[paper flame]

Anybody have a link to interview?

[muted moth]

Which interview? The one with Scoriox and Andrew?

[paper flame]

The most recent one they are talking about above. Mayv15th?

[muted moth]

Probably this one: #🎨〕community-content message

[analog inlet]

@slow creek re: your question in #814313779696238642

what are you basing "overpowered" on

#🎮〕illuvium-zero an illuvium are separate games

At maximum there is only going to be 100 000 active land plots in #🎮〕illuvium-zero this is spilt over 5x 20k sales spread over the next few years

As only land owners have any practical benefit . ftp players just play for "fun" there is no practical benefit to playing #🎮〕illuvium-zero as a FTP player

The landowners do not compete with each other to sell fuel as described here. #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

there is no in game advantage to owing land in the main game illuvium other than getting extra eth to buy fuel with in game

if you could explain more about where you think this overpowered come from it would be helpful

[little moon]

Andrews interviews are always so funny. Its like 30 minutes of him talking about how much he likes his job followed by 10 minutes of actual content.

And it could be cut down to 20 minutes total if he talked at a normal speed.

[twilit dirge]

I calculated the rewards per month with an investment in a Tier 1 land. One Tier 1 Land has 0,0004216% ×5% of the oil supply (with 100k land sold). 5% is intended for land holders.
This numbers are fix and public.

The variable numbers are

• Number of players
• monthly Cash spending for Fuel/ player on average
  --> In total = Pool size

Let's try to calculate the monthly revenue. I assume:

• 1 Mio players
• 100 dollar spending/ player / month on average
  (This 2 numbers are variable!)

Then my results are 21$ per month for an 4500$ investment (1.5 ETH).
If you get it cheaper than a 2000$ Investment with Silv2.

Am I missing some details or are my variable numbers completely wrong? Or should I estimate a 21$ income with Tier 1 Land?

[analog inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/witch-crystal-ball-fortune-teller-gif-14283208

would estimate nothing till the Land IIP comes out and pass the vote by council only then will you have the info you need

[gleaming sigil]

Land sale will happen on inmutable x or on illuvium web page?

Also how much do you think I'll be the cost of minting the land. I have never mint and nft so I want an aprox at leat.

If anyone can answer I'll be gratefull.

Pd. No direct messages scams, I'm not dumb, so don't try it 😆

[muted moth]

The sale itself will be on the IlluviDEX, a site the team is making for the sale. It will be on Layer 1, so the fees and prices you will pay will involve the gas fee to process your transaction, and then whatever price you are paying for the land plot. Minting however will be on IMX L2, so the fees for that should be pretty much zero

[fickle bane]

I hope that it won't cost a fortune :/

[jovial lava]

What is the benefit buying land over ilv tokens etc?

[gleaming sigil]

Thanks

[analog inlet]

ILV - passive income - RevDis.

land see this #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[jovial lava]

Wait what do you buy the land and you need to mint are 2 different processes?

[jovial lava]

Huh sorry I’m not that smart haha

[muted moth]

You process the transaction for the sale of your land plot, and then once it is purchased, it then is minted on IMX. Should just be one process for the buyer I think, with more stuff going on in the background that we don't have to interact with

[fickle bane]

Do you need to be whitelisted or free for all?

[jovial lava]

I see thanks

[little moon]

Thats assuming you are buying at the highest possible price which would probably be a bad idea.
The way you do the math is generally correct, but keep in mind that the goal is for IZ to produce 5% of the total fuel but that doesnt mean all fuel sources will be equally productive. If half of the land buyers dont play the game and develop their land then the fuel production of the other lands should be double what it would be if everyone was producing.
This also only takes into account the revenue from fuel sales. I think the blueprints from the research mechanic have the potential to be even more profitable than the fuel will be.

[gleaming sigil]

Free for all Dutch auction, so the price will start at a top and will go down every 10 minutes, you buy when you feel is right, until stock is depleted

[fickle bane]

Thanks

[gleaming sigil]

Is there an updated chart with the land tier prices and how much they produce?

[little moon]

no

[jovial lava]

I don’t understand the fuel… what is fuel

[gleaming sigil]

What your land will produce, and what you sale to make profit

[little moon]

Fuel is a resource produced by land and used in the main game. Check the pins for more info.

[slow creek]

the only fact that they'll get money from land to be spend in the game give them a serious advantage in the game no?

[jovial lava]

Thanks!!

[analog inlet]

ILV: it is a governance /staking token ( RevDis & yeild farm passive income) You can't buy anything with ILV

**Fuel ** will be the main currency when the game starts . You buy Fuel with ETH only

sILV-2 is the token you can use as an Alternative to fuel it can be used for any non Fuel ( you cant buy fuel with it) non player ( you cant buy anything off another player with it) in game fees , or equipment costs.

sILV-2 will always = <market price> ILV

As well as Official events the admins deem it eligible ( like #🎮〕illuvium-zero Land sale or Illuvitar sale )

ETH : - fuel and anything other player related off the illuviDex (not yet released)

[little moon]

You would probably have even more money to spend ingame if you didnt buy land and just used that money to pay for game fees.

[analog inlet]

no as i staker i personally have access to more fund to put in game

i would guess at this point i don't see how i will ever have to put money form my own pocket into the game

[slow creek]

how can this landsale no affect the gameplay if it gather ressources needed in the game... to be it's a clear benefits over time, I'm clearly an idiot, i know that, but I don't get that you don't get any benefit with land....

How so?

[slow creek]

interesting ....so to stake the same amounth seem more profitable in you opinnion

[little moon]

Lands produce fuel which you need in game. Instead of buying land to make fuel, you can just buy fuel.

[analog inlet]

IZ reasons are separate from illuvium reasources

[slow creek]

ok buy why buy fuel when you got the fuel well producing it infinitly.... Am an idiot, I know don't says it...

[analog inlet]

it would be accurate to say that #💰〕token message

RevDis is unlocked

[little moon]

Well if you dont buy land then you need to buy fuel. If you buy land then maybe your land produces enough and you can use those earnings to pay fees.

[twilit dirge]

Ohh okay interesting. I thought the land production is fix. Nevertheless the fuel wouldn't be a big revenue.
But you are right i didn't consider the blueprints. I have to read more about them. Thank you for your good answer!

[analog inlet]

at this point you have to swap the fuel in IZ to get eth ..then use the eth to buy fuel in game. also see #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[quick grail]

Fair to say land sale still a month away at least ?

[little moon]

probably yes

[analog inlet]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[potent dock]

Still no date, the most recent info we have is that Andrew is planning to go ahead on marketing for it. I expect with the scope he describes it would be at LEAST 2-3 weeks away, probably more like a month.

[tranquil python]

Will sILV2 be able to buy lands in other lands sales or only in this first one?

[potent dock]

All of the land sales will be open to everyone. You can use sILV2 or ETH in any of them.

[tranquil python]

Sorry if it seems I'm not trusting in you, but is there a place where this is stated, I mean, where is it wrote?

[potent dock]

It's fine. It would have to be explicitly stated somewhere that it's not usable. The entire point and functionality of sILV2 is that it's able to be spent in the Illuvium ecosystem. #914732662609043456 message

You can ask a dev to explicitly clarify this if you're concerned, but it would be a massive change to not allow the use of sILV2 in land sales.

[little moon]

Its stated explicitly in IIP-10 that sILV will be used for the land sale. You can see it on the Illuvium governance site.

[potent dock]

Edit: Nevermind, it's general in IIP-10.

There's also

https://gov.illuvium.io/#/proposal/QmNab3vqQX3q2yTNSo1rwK5PzPgE8QxRnEA13jKz8gWQu9

[quick grail]

Im conflicted. As I hold tokens the more revenue is good but I also want to snag land so I don’t want marketing lol regardless I think the only part of land that needs marketing is tier 5 as their is only 20k plots anyway. Unless they are gonna pump the DA start price up really high. I don’t want insanely high prices. I can afford it. I want the return on investment to be reasonable. If people spend heaps of money and will be lucky to get their money back in 10 years from selling fuel then it will cause a lot of negative mud thrown around

[quick grail]

It should definitely be available in future sales. It’s not much of an ask for the team as there probably will not be much sILV even floating around at that stage right ?

[potent dock]

The IIP is passed by the council, so it wouldn't be an ask of the team at all. All the functionality for sILV spending will be built for the first sale.

Regardless, like Scoot pointed out, it's explicit that sILV (now sILV2) can be spent in all land sales in IIP-10.

[quick grail]

I didn’t mean it like that. But it’s all good. I can see why you read it like that. Hard to put into words what I meant so I’ll just let it die

[potent dock]

I mean I agree with you, it should be usable. Unless a contrary IIP is passed disallowing the use of sILV in land sales, it WILL be usable. And you're correct, the supply of sILV will almost certainly be smaller in future sales since YF rewards have slowed down a lot.

[quick grail]

Yeah exactly. Just meant that future land sales will have a much higher eth v sILV2 ratio being used than this first one. So it’s like a throw away thing and an easy burn for the team for sILV2

[tranquil python]

Thank you very much for the info

[snow hatch]

anynews?

[hearty cradle]

the fuel produced in IZ wont cover your gameplay

[noble vapor]

Good noon everyone 🇵🇭

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/when-wen-naru-yummi-yummi-universe-gif-23030317

[slow creek]

but part of it right? how much % you think?

[hearty cradle]

depends on which tier and how hard do you grind

[timber sapphire]

Travel and shard prices arent even announced yet

Neither have fuel earning prices

[shell rose]

Land sale vid just posted https://youtu.be/bgYvBeWCvQo

[regal trout]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNN

[cyan dew]

WEN

[little moon]

BIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGG Andrew we LOVE YOU

Lets roll out youre education 🔥

[empty path]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-gif-19121692

[lapis ledge]

We all love Andrew because he is our savior. All hail Land Vid all hail Land Vid.

[snow hatch]

when

[molten cape]

Is there any new of the starting prices of the Lands?

[empty path]

Not yet, Kieran is finalising the IIP.

[umbral abyss]

wen land?

[mortal merlin]

Very very high

[reef echo]

The tweet said register for land sale on the website but I'm not seeing that anywhere and I thought it was open Dutch auction anyway

[mortal merlin]

Yea dont worry it more like register to the news letter

[cyan dew]

Hopefully not too high

[lone quiver]

What IIP mean again?

[lone quiver]

I think they meant registration to get updated via email when land is released

[analog inlet]

Illuvium Improvement Proposal

[simple juniper]

Love the new video Andrew

[little moon]

the Power to the HOLDERS🔥

[lone quiver]

Thx

[still crag]

There arent any news about wen yet?

[mortal merlin]

Starting price being very high doesnt change anything

It just protects everyone from gas war and insta buy from whales at previous startuing prices

[cyan dew]

yes true

[still crag]

There are only 6 weeks remaining to end Q2, so landsale is going to happen in this 6 weeks right?

[mortal merlin]

Yes

[reef echo]

it should but we don't know for sure

[still crag]

Thx!

[lapis ledge]

End of Q2 is 10 weeks away?

[shy wedge]

Probably don't have an answer for this. Something good to think about.... When is the second land sale? It might be worth to fomo in if the second land sale is a year away, but not when the second land sale is only 3-6 months away.

[frank spear]

if it doesnt cover my own gameplay how will 20k plots in the beginning cover gameplay for lets say 200k players?

[little moon]

95% of fuel comes from the Dao 5% from Landowner

[fierce fern]

who knows how many players there will be?

[analog inlet]

DAO produces 95% of the fuel so there will never be a fuel shortage no matter how many players there are in Illuvium

[night spoke]

so whats the point of buying land?

[analog inlet]

no one can answers that for you .

personally i am not going to buy land for my own reasons but there are other very much interested in buying land for their reasons

here is more information on the revenue asp[ect of it #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[night spoke]

ahh i see... thx

[hearty cradle]

flexing?

definitely not for the return lol
i just dnt want to miss out

[hearty cradle]

not even a T1?

[analog inlet]

imo spending that money on more ILV is betters

[hearty cradle]

you know what
im gonna buy a T1 and set it aside for you

worst case scenario i got more lands

im gonna call it Solar City

[cursive rune]

Can i use sILV2 for Upgrades on ilv Zero?

[hearty cradle]

no

[bronze spruce]

Why can you not use regular ILV to buy land? Is it even going to be used in the illuvidex?

[analog inlet]

ILV: it is a governance /staking token ( RevDis & yeild farm passive income) You can't buy anything with ILV

**Fuel ** will be the main currency when the game starts . You buy Fuel with ETH only

sILV-2 is the token you can use as an Alternative to fuel it can be used for any non Fuel ( you cant buy fuel with it) non player ( you cant buy anything off another player with it) in game fees , or equipment costs.

sILV-2 will always = <market price> ILV

As well as Official events the admins deem it eligible ( like #🎮〕illuvium-zero Land sale or Illuvitar sale )

ETH : - fuel and anything other player related off the illuviDex (not yet released)

[inner halo]

Wassup guys anybody know how much it will cost to mint land and will we be able to build on the land

[hearty cradle]

no price yet
yea you can build on land, its a builder game

[bronze aspen]

The map looks like a small australia and a giant NZ

[inner halo]

Cool thanks

[sage kettle]

hi there

[analog tangle]

is there a specific timeframe for voting on a IIP? How long does the discussion around an IIP last before council members vote on it?

[potent dock]

After it's formally proposed (i.e. going to a vote) there are 3 days for council members to vote on an IIP. Before that there's no limit to how long discussion can take.

General practice has been: Proposal - Discussion - Revision - (Repeat Discussion + Revision if necessary) -> Vote

[analog tangle]

thanks

[quartz shell]

Can we delay land sale, I just locked up too many staking tokens lol

[timber sapphire]

Will probably take a month or something

[little moon]

new drinking game, take a shot every time andrew says 'land' in the 2 minute explainer video.

[potent dock]

Aaaaand I shat myself.

Good Friday game 🙂

[pure cloak]

You want to delay the land sale? You must be new here😂

[quartz shell]

Lol I’ve been waiting forever and I messed up and forgot why I had so much liquidity on the side. I locked it in staking only to realize oh yea I was saving it for land sale lol

[tranquil python]

Lol

[little moon]

Uniswap have some token bro... butttttt pleeeeasseee no delay xD

[pure cloak]

Ah ok then I understand😁

[quartz shell]

Haha yea I gotta go raise some capital

[little moon]

Step by step all In Illuvium 😝

[lethal thunder]

Don’t worry they keep on delaying it and 2022 is until December 31st so you have plenty of time lol

[barren spruce]

Already took a huge hit from land sale delaying since Nov2021 pls no more delay

[little moon]

naaaahhh bro the timeframe is short... With the start of Landsale Marketing we got soon the Date

[lethal thunder]

Expect more delays until next year because they are busy playing the game by betting millions and hyping is more important than prioritizing land sale.

[void raft]

Hi, I am new here, sorry, maybe a dumb question, you say here, that silv2=price of ILV, but when I go to any site, it says, that its currently worth like $190, why is that?

[fair temple]

The value that people give an asset that might or might not be worth the same as ILV obviously will be lower than the ILV token itself.

SILV2 will have a similar buying power in the game as ILV, but it has no use currently as the game is not out yet.

[potent dock]

It's basically like asking why a gift card isn't worth as much as cash if you go to resell it. sILV2 can only be spent on Illuvium, and the market has determined the discount (since you can't actively spend sILV2 yet) means it's worth $190.

The gift card is still worth $530 at the store, but someone will only give you $190 for it.

I hope that analogy makes sense xD

[hazy jewel]

Guys i just understand i can pay lands also with silv2 tokens as long as they are on my wallet during the dutch aution. The value for 1 sIL2 token is equal to 1 ILV so pretend the auction starts with a price of 1 eth, ( eth value $ 3k just for example ) and the ILV token value is $500 ( again take this an example ) i can buy such a land with 1 eth OR 6 sILV2 Tokens ? are fees always in eth, right ? Thank you

[potent dock]

Yeah that's correct. At $3k ETH and $500, 1 ETH and 6 sILV2 would have the same spending power in the land sale.

[void raft]

So lets I plan to buy some land, so wouldnt it make sense to buy silv2 instead of ETH/ILV?

[amber narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/when-wen-naru-yummi-yummi-universe-gif-23030317

[rancid lion]

which is why I already bought my sILV2 to hopefully buy a T3. I'm expecting a huge run on sILV2 before and during landsale. It will be so tempting to just swap sILV2 back to ETH instead of buying land.

[stoic vine]

when land sale

[quick grail]

that was my plan also. Im torn between just straight buying a Tier 3 or selling 80% of my sILV2 once it two or 3x and then just use the remaining 20% to pick up a tier 1

[vast ermine]

I would expect a lot of long term sILV holders to sell their sILV stacks rather than actually buying the land when it comes out. There is definitely a bit of a rugged sentiment over the total lack of communication and abandonment of prior timelines. Especially as many people had $10k + in sILV that got locked in during the crypto collapse of late 2021.

As an early sILV holder myself I felt disregarded and let down by the lack of engagment after the sILV exploit. Like those above I will probably divest most of my sILV2 unless there is a significant turn around in communication

[mint scroll]

But when

[quick grail]

Surely if you have always been a large sILV holder you always planned on dumping prior to land sale why else hold that much? If it was to buy land then you can still do that. Nothing has changed. Communication will only ramp up from here now as land sale approaches officially

[vast ermine]

Consumer confidence has changed.
I held a significant amount because I wanted a high tier land, not to flip for profit. As would the majority of holders now consider selling, I would presume.

My point is that because I felt hung out to dry, I no longer see Illuvium as the optimistic investment I originally did.

Of course I can't wait to play the games, engage with the community and see where things go. That hasn't changed. But from an investor standpoint I felt disrespected and nothing has happened that says to me "okay, that won't happen again".

And yes, I was aware of the risks of sILV purchase. However a risk I didn't assess was that communication would almost entirely stop, leaving me in the dark.

[quick grail]

just wondering what do you mean about communication stopping? these guys are pretty transparent. I agree Kieran needs to chill with timelines but I suppose it might have been easier for me considering I was a Tesla investor to just let timelines slide than it was for others.

[vast ermine]

During the time period between the exploit and v2 release there was next to no updates, timelines or communication around future land sales at all.

While Illuvium Zero is a comparatively small side game for Illuvium, it's something I would imagine a large share of their most dedicated player base invested in to. For there to be little communication regarding follow up, timelines, ILZ updates or almost any other kind of news, I would say has damaged the core of their most committed player base. Hard work is needed to recover from that.

[analog inlet]

I have to disagree with you regarding a number of points,.

• communication i feel was excellent during and throughout the
  -They paid for the reimbursement out their own pocket when really it off an unofficial pool
• there was never any set date for the land sale only estimations
• people need to be have patience
• land is not even going "live" till open beta so really there is no "urgency" for the sale

-large share of their most dedicated player base invested

• I would disagree with that . illuvium is the main course IZ is the side of fries. you cant measure the dedication of a customer of a burger joint if they don't buy fries.

• the give monthly updates to keep the player base informed - imo if people feel more is needed they are the ones being unreasonable

bases on above the team has time an time again shown there generosity and dedication to the project and the community and IMO have nothing to recover from

sILV-2 FYI

Buying silv-2 has nothing to do with the DAO

the sILV-2 token can be officially used within the illuvium ecosystem no mater how its obtained

You need DYOR to find any information about unofficial pools and unofficial value graphs

-** sILV -2 is NOT an official investment and it was never intended to be traded or speculated.**

• the only OFFICAL way to get SILV v2 is though staking rewards ** <--------------------------**

• Illuvium DAO will NOT be making an official pool for sILV-2.

• to find a unofficial sILV -2 pool exists DYOR to find it

• the official sILV-2 contract can be found in #🔗〕helpful-links

FYI: Trading sILV -2 will

• be unofficial --- nothing that goes on there has any relevance to illuvium itself
• not be supported by the DAO -- see above
• be at your own risk - anything can happen
• have inherent risk

[little moon]

It is an ingame token with a value generated by an investment. Not very smart to say "silv2 is not an investment". Besides, sILV belongs to Illuvium as much as ILV. You can also make it easy by saying "everything that happens with sILV doesn't interest us", but that wouldn't speak for the devs of Illuvium.

[analog inlet]

its a fact its not a OFFICIAL investment . it was never meant to be traded , speculated or used for making profit. your reply is factually wrong

silv is nothing more than a glorified gift card with 0 offical value out side the illivium ecosystem

[little moon]

Wtf? Didn't the devs say that the value of a sILV will be that of an ILV at the land sale? Isn't there an option to claim either ilv or sILV? What kind of logic is that? sILV is treated like ethereum and illuvium, can be traded and claimed but is not an investment? What a bullshit

[analog inlet]

a sILV will be that of an ILV at the land sale? that is inside the illuvium ecosystem. do yes 1 silv-2 will = <market value> ilv

[little moon]

There you go. The coin has a value and you can buy it. This is called an investment 😉

[analog inlet]

no you are again incorrect. just becase its a erc -20 tha CAN be traded dos not mean the devs Support" it being traded it was meant as an alternate reward for stakers to use ingame that could be unlocked without going though vesting

@little moon read these from the dev

#💬〕general message

[little moon]

There you go. That brings us to the point. The devs create an ingame token and make sure that there is a huge demand for the token by creating :

1. giving the possibility to claim ilv or sILV
2. participating in the land sale with sILV or Ethereum.
   Through this demand created by the devs, they give value to the coin and make sure that the coin is traded. A simple "so, now we gave the coin a value but we don't care if the pool gets hacked" is no longer possible as they are responsible for the demand and for the coin.

[analog inlet]

read above. link from Aaron. again your simply wrong.

If the pool was to die it would have nothing to do with the devs as its not support and it was at the end users own risk.

why do you think there is not an official pool Silv-2 like ILV? because its not supposed to exist in the first place.

that pool Silv-2 LP was created by a random whale and could end just as quickly

Your welcome to your opinion i was trying to help inform you of actual facts and the reality .
That's all i can do i will disengage now.
Have good day.

[rancid lion]

Except the devs gave the sILV2 a value in the ecosystem, the same as ILV, yet people are trading it at a completely different value for a completely different demand. Due to self custodianship and blockchain basics it is tradeable outside the ecosystem.

Do you believe World of Warcraft developers to be responsible for the demand of World of Warcraft accounts on 3rd party black market sites that people choose to buy/sell accounts on? The WoW devs do not support selling accounts on 3rd party sites, no matter what in-game value you might be able to trade items for.

Illuvium devs do not support selling sILV2 on 3rd party pools, no matter what in-game value you might be able to use it for.

[wind bolt]

So we still don't have a proposal that sets new land prices correct? And what's the fastest turn around on a proposal? Land sale is probably not happening in april

[untold relic]

What would be good estimation of gas fees for upcoming land sale. What to expect approximately.

[analog inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/witch-crystal-ball-fortune-teller-gif-14283208

since ETH gas has nothing to do with illuvium at all it impossible to know gas changes frequently

[muted moth]

Like Solar said, it’ll depend a lot on what gwei is at the time of the sale, but contract wise it should be pretty cheap since it is just a simple buy transaction as opposed to something more complicated like staking which can get pretty pricey

[untold relic]

I know that it's impossible to predict it but I saw for example CryptoDads fee was 3000$ right now I pay from 10$ to 40$ for normal transactions. Asking because people are talking about gas wars. Is it possible that fee could be 1000$ or 3000$ only because of Illuvium land sale? What is probable.

[muted moth]

Definitely possible if a lot of people are interested and try to bid all at once. But, since the sale is spread out over 3 days, it’s likely gas would subside for a little bit(I hope)

[livid gorge]

I think land sale will be in 2 weeks.

[hearty cradle]

i hope not

the marketing should run for 4 weeks

[brazen slate]

That would be situating gas fees

*disgusting

[hearty cradle]

all we have rn is a teaser
we still need the kardashians to chime in

[livid gorge]

Lol true no tik tok thots so we can’t be that close

I really don’t see marketing as a hurdle though to be honest. The product is that much better than any p2e out right now.

[hearty cradle]

@inner tide dancing on tiktok promoting land sale ????

Hell yeaaaa !

[livid gorge]

Andrew has been such a good hire.

[hearty cradle]

and a good dancer i hope

[livid gorge]

I come from pixel vault where the marketing isn’t great. Im ready to make the switch.

[hearty cradle]

what is that

[livid gorge]

Illuvium is doing all the thing I wish PV did

Punks comic and Metaheros (my pfp)

[hearty cradle]

cool

[livid gorge]

It was a project from last spring that took off to an extent

[cosmic quartz]

where can i go to learn more about buying land?

[analog inlet]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hearty cradle]

wht do you want to know?

[untold relic]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[vernal girder]

About the land.
Is it gunna be like sandbox? Are you gunna be able to build on it? How much do we think it'll be?

So we have to buy with ETH not ILV?

[quick grail]

You build on it but it’s not a sandbox type land. It’s like this

Damn 30 second timer

[late moth]

that makes it look like townstar, but futuristic lol

[vernal girder]

So I guess I'm a little confused so please forgive me, I want to know all about this game. Is it kind of like a "clash of clans" type land?
It just doesn't add up to me, the trailers and game play look like a fortnite type experience but the land doesn't so I'm confused on how they are the same game. Could you by chance explain this to me

[late moth]

two games, kinda 3, open world to catch illuvials, autobattler to fight with illuvials, then the land is like a game that mints erc20 tokens that are resources that get burned in illuvium and future games, thats my understanding

[lofty cape]

clash of clans just no fighting lol

[vernal girder]

So are the lands sold as nfts? Like the ulluvials? And say I want to own land and illuvials, what's the pros?

This game is gunne be nuts. Illuvium and project quantem are my 2 favorite games right now that I feel are gunna take off and stay

[lofty cape]

land and Illuvials are both NFTs

[vernal girder]

@lofty cape BOOM got it. So we can build on it?

[quick grail]

Land is just a mini game. Basically gamified staking. You buy the land stake it (but you have to play) and receive a token you can sell

[lofty cape]

The land will be developed overtime to base builder game yes

the biggest random thing is the price and rarity of blueprints that you can get from the land

[vernal girder]

I need to play this game. When can we play? And how do we play?

[muted moth]

Here’s a video of what the gameplay will be like. Note that stuff has changed since this but it’ll give you a general idea of what gameplay is like. https://youtu.be/qZrAlOQgdpY

[lofty cape]

waiting for announcements

Get blueprints from land and the collection of resources to make items is in the main game

[quick grail]

The overworld and and battle game is the main deal. Check out tsg YouTube channel some vids

[lofty cape]

still wonder if they are going to let us earn sILV2 in game

[vernal girder]

Guys, thank you so much for all the help!

[late moth]

probably showing my age, but does anyone remember when pokemon cards became a thing and schools were struggling to crack down on people bringing their cards to school?

[lofty cape]

sure do but for me it was Magic the Gathering

[late moth]

politicians better get to know crypto, bc here we come

[lofty cape]

when it was released I was in 5th grade lol

US is developing their own crypto now

[late moth]

i could see illuvium becoming a social wildfire that spreads and really spreading crypto to more users the way pokemon cards kinda planted trading cards in a way magic didnt

[late moth]

i think yellen said something about it being years off

[lofty cape]

Just regulate stable coins and go from there

[late moth]

i think cruz is trying to pass some lay to prohibit a CBDC, something to do with the cost of the infrastructure and tax hikes

[late moth]

thats cryptos argument to strengthen the dollar the same way they currently have a hold on oil in dollars

[analog inlet]

@desert trout here is a brakedown of how revenue works in #🎮〕illuvium-zero #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hearty cradle]

@desert trout
the fuel in IZ is not minted

[desert trout]

makes sense now. the wording in the video on youtube confused me i think

[hidden frigate]

Would it be better to grab 2 t1 land or 1 t2 land

[olive frigate]

Can land be purchased with normal ilv or does it have to be ilv2?

[hidden frigate]

It needs to be silv2 or eth @olive frigate

[olive frigate]

How do you change ilv to silv2?

[hearty cradle]

i watched the video again, i think @inner tide and @amber atlas need to discuss about fuel in IZ as erc 20

here is johnny comments on whether fuel from IZ is minted or not
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hidden frigate]

I dont think you can change ilv to silv2. You can either claim silv2 as staking rewards or buy from uniswap

[mortal merlin]

So Fuel isnt ERC-20 anymore?

[hearty cradle]

On the ILV web site
exchange

[mortal merlin]

Would be nice to know lol

Its not on the proposal

[hearty cradle]

Fuel in IZ was erc20 on aaron's proposal

[mortal merlin]

If it is it needs to be on L2 from launch anyway

Otherwise people will only use sILV2 so no revenue.

[hearty cradle]

and it has to be withdrawable to our wallet without going through the pool

[mortal merlin]

Thats not an option no

[hearty cradle]

its not part of revdis anyway

[mortal merlin]

Otherwise you get blackmarket pools and P2P trades of fuel which is all bad for the protocol.

[hearty cradle]

like sILV2?

[mortal merlin]

Yep

[hearty cradle]

kieran used it openly
We are defi are we not

[mortal merlin]

Fuel will be controlled

And needs to be

You produce fuel , only one place to sell it.

Only one place to buy it

Ensuring the protocol its revenue

[hearty cradle]

the DAO is already the monopoly

[mortal merlin]

What

[hearty cradle]

on fuel production

[mortal merlin]

Sure

[hearty cradle]

fuel from IZ is not part of revdis
and if you need the number of supply it's just a query away

[mortal merlin]

Fuel is biggest source of revdis..

[hearty cradle]

what part of "ownership" if we cant transfer an erc20 token

[mortal merlin]

Im not following where you want to go

[hearty cradle]

fuel from IZ is not, it goes straight to landowners

[mortal merlin]

Their 5% of it

The DAO gets the rest

[hearty cradle]

exactly

[mortal merlin]

Ok I still dont see a question or a point

Good talk hahah

[hearty cradle]

fuel from IZ needs to be erc20 and withdrawable to our wallet without going through the balancer pool

[mortal merlin]

Why

[hearty cradle]

so landowners can use the fuel that they produce lol

[mortal merlin]

They can buy it back on the other side

L2 , no fees

[hearty cradle]

gas fee, price votality

[mortal merlin]

No volatility

If done at the same moment

[hearty cradle]

L2 has fee, its just minimum

[mortal merlin]

Yea

Its nothing

People can skip buying land if they dont like it tho

[hearty cradle]

wow

just watch andrew's video, you'll see how he phrased it

[hearty cradle]

"In Illuvium Zero, build your own virtual industrial complexes, that can extract fuels, stored as ERC-20 tokens, in your connected wallet"

[mortal merlin]

We will have to get that clarified

For whatever the current system is

[hearty cradle]

i downloaded the video in hd for future reference

[mortal merlin]

For future reference?

[hearty cradle]

i got a feeling its gonna get taken down

or re uploaded
im speculating there was a miscommunication between marketing and the team

[mortal merlin]

Its not because Andrew said something that we need to make that thing happen.. and you having a recorded copy of it doesnt change that hahah

Anyway good day ser, i'll catch up later

[analog inlet]

@hearty cradle you do realize everything is subject to change right? you seem to take everything you see as written in stone

[mortal merlin]

We will make it whats best long term for the protocol, thats it.

[hearty cradle]

bro it was a public ads by ILV official channel

and there was no disclaimer saying all of the things in the video are subject to the council approval

[potent dock]

Johnny literally just clarified this the other day. Fuel in IZ isn't minted yet, because minting Fuel literally every time a structure generates a tiny amount of Fuel would be a huge waste. When you swap it to the ETH/Fuel LP, it gets minted, and there will be a way to make it look like it's going straight to your wallet. But it HAS to pass through the pool to ensure the 19:1 ratio of Fuel produced by the DAO/land.

[analog inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

[potent dock]

The control for stopping people from bypassing the LP is that Fuel isn't ERC-20 Fuel until it's passed through the LP.

[hearty cradle]

just watch scoriox video with andrew, you'll see the diff

[analog inlet]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hearty cradle]

You still dnt get it dnt you?

Why would andrew do a marketing?
to attract ILV discord members??

lol we all know land is coming, doing a marketing on us is a waste.

Now why would andrew do a big budget marketing?
Plus, getting robert kiyosaki ?

just to convince solarstorm into buying land?

let me quote andrew:
"That marketing isn't targeted at you (Scoriox). That's targeted at the vast majority of people, in, even uninterested in crypto and metaverse, that don't even know this opportunity exist".

[hearty cradle]

we are getting ETH in our wallet, not fuel

this is why we should get the IIP passed first, then start marketing

[potent dock]

Yeah, or you can use a button that hides the fact that you're trading your Fuel through the LP and so it appears to move from IZ to your wallet. Behind the scenes, it will ALWAYS go through the LP.

[sick cipher]

Gm guys . Will the supply of Fuel only come from land ? Or will it just be one of the avenues of supply or generation

[quick grail]

Only 5% come from land the the other 95% from the DAO

[sick cipher]

Is the supply of Fuel infinite?

[gusty frigate]

what is the approximate price of land tier 1?

[hearty cradle]

yes

[hearty cradle]

we dnt know, lets wait for the IIP

[jovial lava]

What does IIP stand for?

[lean umbra]

i watched the video like 3 times to see when the date is

[potent dock]

Illuvium Improvement Proposal

https://docs.illuvium.io/whitepaper/dao

[jovial lava]

Thank you and land sale and future nft sales will@be on our own platform in the future?

[potent dock]

Yeah, everything should be on the Illuvidex.

[jovial lava]

Thanks! For the info

[potent dock]

I can't guarantee there will never be an exception but it will be well communicated if that's the case for some reason.

[jovial lava]

Yesss sirrr

[earnest nymph]

Hi, guys. Did the buildings can be relocated once you get it builded just like Clash of Clans?

[hearty cradle]

Yes

do you think we should charge people for relocation? $100 ?

[high sleet]

how much exactly does a landmark boost fuel production for that given fuel? @amber atlas

also on that note, given there are typically less fuel sites than element sites, are fuels more valuable than elements in some sense? or not really?

[tranquil rampart]

Land Sale within 2 weeks? Or is it just a rumour?

[hearty cradle]

where did you hear that from?

[tranquil rampart]

Read it in Discord somewhere like last week. I think it was the #💬〕general chat

[hearty cradle]

speculation

[tranquil rampart]

And I heard Kieran say in some interview that 4-5 weeks after the release of staking V2 the land sale would be launched

[pure cloak]

If Kieran says anything about how long something is going to take or when something will take place then he is very optimistic. Better not listen to it if you don't want to be disappointed(from personal experience).🤣

[tranquil rampart]

Haha yeah i noticed, if you double the time he's telling you your always safe i guess 😂

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/reasonsimbroke-larry-david-hbo-hbo-max-meh-gif-24169087

[pure cloak]

That's a minimal, it could take even longer.😆

[stuck moth]

Hey does anyone knows how much fuel will come from the land owners?

[tranquil python]

5% I think

[solid saddle]

5% sounds right based on memory

[stuck moth]

That is sad i already configurated my s class 😢

[hidden swallow]

Uhm, wrong discord chat?

[stuck moth]

From where Comes the other 95%?

[signal raptor]

The DAO

[shell rose]

I listened again to the new land sale explainer video. I have to say I really dislike the voiceover style lol. It’s oddly robotic.

[timber sapphire]

Dont disrepect our boy andrew like that

[hearty cradle]

lol im with you

[weak warren]

Is it better to use sILV to buy land or does it not matter?

[shell rose]

Haha yea I mean, I think Andrew does great in every video but I was not feelin that lol.

[shell rose]

It is ‘cheaper’ because sILV v2 can be bought at a discount on unofficial exchange like uniswap. So you can pay less for it but it has more value later (pegged to ILV price)

[polar cosmos]

if u use sILV to buy land, this is the same situation like you burn the same amout of ILV

if u use ETH to buy land, we have revenue distribution for ILV stakers 😉

[weak warren]

Uhh, using ETH to buy land effect revdis?

[polar cosmos]

more ETH spend for lands, more revdis

[weak warren]

Right. Also if I don’t own land, buying fuel from someone else is the only way to get it?

[polar cosmos]

correct

you can read about it in #809220563397902346, the last conversation is about land sale and future revdis

[timber sapphire]

Fuel selling and buying will all go through illuvium, no p2p exchange i think

[polar cosmos]

go through illuviDEX i think

[timber sapphire]

Yes you are right

[ancient ravine]

is it possible to just let people farm on my land?

[hearty cradle]

Very

[tender yew]

Is live illuviDEX? I am not able to find it

[hearty cradle]

not yet

[tender yew]

And do we know when the sell of the land will be?

[timber sapphire]

No

[cyan dew]

Wen

[lofty cape]

Soon 😂

[cyan dew]

https://tenor.com/view/john-jonah-jameson-lol-laughing-hysterically-laughing-out-loud-funny-gif-17710543