Hybrid CoreXY Mod

[valid hamlet]

For a 250mm section of belt 1% elongation is 2.5mm, our error is 1/25th of that . SO like a quarter of a Kg. Probably a lot more on 9mm gt3

[regal gorge]

the 0.1mm might still be the max difference between motors, since a full step 0.2mm from what I understand from the calculations

its just the force that the system is under that changes

[valid hamlet]

Yeah when the pullies are close together it probably loads it pretty good.

[regal gorge]

for that 0.1 mm

[valid hamlet]

I guess this is the price you pay then you overdefine a system.

[regal gorge]

on awd I think the belt length between motors is 1 meter and on the hybrid is half

[regal gorge]

a lot of added complexity

and a lot of money spent to still not have the printer enclosed and have a thick so that it is not warped bed

my priorities where not in the right place

[valid hamlet]

Need for speed

[regal gorge]

I made the printer stupid fast and my bed looks like mountains, the adhesion is shit, and the bed sensor works sometimes

[valid hamlet]

Oooof. Is it a pro?

[regal gorge]

plus

[valid hamlet]

Same. Big bed

[regal gorge]

hydra?

or the stock

[valid hamlet]

I bought the E5+ because It has a working z-axis. I have to yell at my self every time I go look at the hydra.

[regal gorge]

The 377x370 is compatible with the stock z axis

I will get the thick bed first and then later might do hydra

The one fabreeko sells has both hydra and stock bolt holes

[valid hamlet]

Oh, that's nice. No, I have to finish the enclosure first.

[regal gorge]

Sound like you had an internal conflict for a second there

[valid hamlet]

This server is filled with bad influences.

I will probably do your Hybrid after I get my printer together.

[regal gorge]

A lot of bad financial advice

I hope to iron out some of the kinks

But since my setup is not normal I rely on others to help me do that

[manic cave]

not bad influences, just a few black holes that suck our money

[hushed marlin]

That looks awesome but isn't the CNC toolhead part like $120 extra?

[hushed marlin]

I have that same issue lol, the added expense of a new bed is the biggest cost in the hydra+mercury one but Boi does it look tempting

E5PLUS the stock bed

[hollow marsh]

I got it for 72 from print 3D

Was going to ask about that

[hushed marlin]

Yeah but that's USD

[hollow marsh]

Yeah

[hushed marlin]

It's on Aliex but still $110, bumps up the price a little too much for me, I found this one from a guy here that did a build looks hybrid with it but looks like he might be AWOL

[hollow marsh]

You can do the printed version of that cnc print head!

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-Printed

[hushed marlin]

Beautiful, would the goliath need hotend cooling though?

Also, would it be crazy or not considering the speed to add extrusions in the centre of each face of the frame?

[hollow marsh]

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Goliath/blob/main/STL/Air Cool Fan duct/Fan duct 2510-With flange for Vz-Printhead printed.stl

[hollow marsh]

Can never make it too stiff imo, but I'm not the expert!

[regal gorge]

No problems for 5 plus, only some for 5pro so dont worry

[hushed marlin]

Awesome! Thanks man, really appreciate it, Il keep my eye on your build being almost the same as what I want

[unreal bolt]

Try querying the driver with SG_RESULT

Also i read up on it, it looks at the currents waveform and the applied voltage

It also read back-EMF generated by the coil windings which is basically reading how much the motor is in sync with the closest magnetic field

[hushed marlin]

So really I could change the front and back top for 2040 extrusions, run 2 down the centre on both sides

[valid hamlet]

For a coil in a non-moving motor, applied voltage could work for current/torque analog.

[unreal bolt]

It’s one way to estimate with known values i suppose without measuring

[hollow marsh]

I'd check out the beta enclosure if you're thinking of changing our extrusions TBH

[loud spear]

Well, found out what happens when losing steps from too high acceleration and multiple motors playing tug-of-war... re-printing another set now... 🙂

[loud spear]

Looks like latest parts are beefier already, nice! Also, just discovered my bolts holding this onto the X carriage were way too short and only screwed into the plastic basically. Oops! Maybe that's where my mystery vibrations are coming from though. 🙂 Re-printing now to find out

[hushed marlin]

Has anyone done Full metal gantry with hybrid here?

[loud spear]

Haven't seen anything from anybody yet

[hushed marlin]

Could the parts be converted to step files to be cnc'd?

Could get some crazy speeds

[hollow marsh]

After the design is tested more, I think @regal gorge wants to try it out. Would need complete rework (replacing pillars with bolts and sleeves etc) I was going to help with some beta testing using my cnc

[regal gorge]

I would like to do that but I have no experience yet

[regal gorge]

I will be sending you the files once I understand how to make the design for cnc

[regal gorge]

tell me how it goes I need some feedback on that

also now you need 20mm bolt with a shim

[hollow marsh]

I think they key is just making plates, so take the top and bottom, make those plates, then bolts with spacer sleeves to get the proper height. I know that's way high level but that is my understanding

[regal gorge]

what I am not sure is how to grip the belt

[hollow marsh]

https://github.com/TurtleCrawler

You could probably use turtles as a reference point

[regal gorge]

the motor mounts I know how to make

the hybrid carriage I did now figure out yet

[hollow marsh]

Ohhhh I see

[regal gorge]

I will figure something out

[hollow marsh]

I'm confident you will!

Maybe you can cut the carriage in half, then bolt it together with the belt in-between

Actually that could totally work I think.

[regal gorge]

to make it easier to make I am trying to figure out how to make it out of 3mm plates

right now I think we can make it out of a little platform and 2 printed parts

[hollow marsh]

could you also do a .125 version? 🙂

[regal gorge]

inch you mean?

[hollow marsh]

yeah

[regal gorge]

sure

[hollow marsh]

Gotta love murcia

lol

[gusty oak]

Would be awesome if there was a AWD and Hybrid Version that is compatible with the FMG from Turtle.

[regal gorge]

the awd is compatible

[gusty oak]

Oh it is 👀

[regal gorge]

and hybrid is too

I am trying to make the front metal so it matches

[hushed marlin]

Beautiful, yeah I reckon it'd be amazing speed and would compliment the hybrid, but yeah totally understand, in the mean time I could just print the hybrid parts and maybe tap them myself into the CNC parts, here in Australia trying to source a CNC as well for me lol

[regal gorge]

an later the hybrid metal as well

[gusty oak]

So your AWD is also a bit Lower then the Original? Didnt know that

[regal gorge]

I am trying to make them out of 3mm plates for now so its a little cheaper

[regal gorge]

what do you mean?

[gusty oak]

The Full metal gantrys belt paths a bit lower then stock mercury i think

[regal gorge]

"The entire belt path and gantry has been moved lower than the stock printed parts."

i just read that now

I can make special parts to fit tha metal gantry then

[gusty oak]

Would be cool. Then you could mix&match and upgrade slowly to the full metal Hybrid 8WD Gantry 😄

But all of this is pretty bad news, just got my paycheck. I wanted to save money after buying Hydra and the FMG last month 😂

[regal gorge]

New mods are alway bad news for the wallet

[gusty oak]

Yeah true.^^

[hushed marlin]

Yeah man that's awesome, that was the original idea for my mercury 1 build anyway, slowly upgrade

[regal gorge]

Yup, my awd mod is also in steps

First awd front only mounts, then full awd then 9mm double shear awd

[dry crest]

@regal gorge it barely fits

[regal gorge]

So it does fit

Or it touches?

[dry crest]

it does touch

[regal gorge]

Do you want me to make a lower version?

[dry crest]

I dont know if it can be lower

[regal gorge]

It can be a few mm lower by puting them on the side of the rail not on top

[dry crest]

you can try if you want

[hushed marlin]

BINGO! @hollow marsh https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-CNC/tree/main/STLs/Zerog Specific

step files and all for a CNC

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-CNC/tree/main/Gallery

[hollow marsh]

Yup! Just printed that out yesterday actually! Just need those parts to get here sooner

[dry crest]

I got the CNC version

[hollow marsh]

Oh I meant the fan duct, I got the cnc too

So excited

[dry crest]

did you get the right fan duct printed?

[hollow marsh]

Yeah that first link

[dry crest]

this one https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1183301758286565426

[hollow marsh]

I'm running CPAP, Goliath, and beacon

So this one

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-CNC/tree/main/STLs/Zerog Specific

[dry crest]

you should download this or it wont fit

[dry crest]

@regal gorge are the files up to date?

[hollow marsh]

I think you meant @regal gorge the creator of the mod

[dry crest]

oops

fixed

[regal gorge]

For the plus the files are up to date

@dry crest

[sharp rover]

If I wanted to do the 4 motor hybrid would I just print doubles of the motor mounts? Trying to decide if I want to go ahead and add this from the get-go or wait on it

[hollow marsh]

Pro or Plus?

Also Hydra or normal

[sharp rover]

Plus with normal bed

[hollow marsh]

@sharp rover

You'd have to talk to @regal gorge

[sharp rover]

Okay cool thank you!

[hollow marsh]

Looks like I asked the same question a while back haha

[sharp rover]

I saw that and was reading through it to see if there were different files lol. Is yours a plus or a pro?

[hollow marsh]

Mines a pro which I know is much more difficult, especially with Hydra. He had to redesign everything

[sharp rover]

Ahh yeah but I bet it’ll be insanely fast. I’m thinking if I do the awd hybrid too I’ll probably switch to 48v. I’m gonna have to figure something for the electronics since I don’t want to do the enclosure yet. Maybe just some din rails on the bottom.

[hollow marsh]

Have you done the electronics enclosure? You can print just the feet and the din mounts

[sharp rover]

If I don’t do the awd hybrid I’ll probably just reuse the stock electronics enclosure until I add hybrid. There’s no way I could fit 2 boards and 2 power supplies in it and the airflow would be horrible

No I haven’t

I’ve been debating it but im thinking I’ll do it later on

Or maybe I’ll just do the feet and din mounts and add the skirt later 🤔. I wonder what size din rails I’d need for the plus

[sharp rover]

That looks awesome

[hollow marsh]

That's what I did

Getting there!

[sharp rover]

Are the bottom pieces tpu or just pla?

[hollow marsh]

Everything is ASA

Oh those feet

Those are air compressor feet from Amazon

[sharp rover]

It doesn’t seem like it’d be a bunch extra to do either.

Oh nice

[hollow marsh]

Just need 8 m5 tnuts, for the feet, and 4 per din rail. Then m5x8mm

Super easy, and worth imo

[sharp rover]

Sweet I’ll probably do that. I need to figure out which 48v power supply to get too.

I’ll probably do that lrs 600 you got

[regal gorge]

So

On the plus you can use the github as a reference

In the plus there is enough space for 2 power supplys

For awd the rear mount are different from the front one

https://github.com/Stanciu-Andrei/UserMods/tree/main/Mercury_One/stanciuandrei_/AWD_Mod/AWD_MotorMounts_Full/AWD_6mmBelt

The awd has no fitment issues on the plus, the hybrid awd had fitment issues but I fixed that, so no mor issues with that, also on github only the 2wd hybrid is posted, the 4wd hybrid I have yet to post

@sharp rover

[sharp rover]

Perfect thank you so much! I think I may stick with the 24v for now and just AWD at first after thinking about it. I’ll do the awd hybrid later on after you post it and I’ll do 48v then. Also for wiring the dual psu’s to the power switch do you just wire them in parallel so you don’t need 2 plugs?

[regal gorge]

The power switch cuts power to the whole system, so only one plug, the mains power is distributed to both

[sharp rover]

Okay perfect that’s what I figured.

[regal gorge]

Can you tell me your plan?

First the base mercury then 48v then awd then hybrid?

[sharp rover]

So phase 1 (initial build) will be AWD mercury 24v. Then phase 2 after it’s built will be doing 4 motor hybrid and 48v at the same time. Since I’ll need another board I’ll have 24v power extra board for z and extruder then 48v to the octopus pro with 5160 for all 8 drivers (I’ll have to get 4 more 5160s now that I think about it lol)

[regal gorge]

On awd 48v you get 1000@70k

Also did you buy the parts, if so what motors?

[sharp rover]

Do you think 24v will get close to that?

I haven’t yet but I’m gonna do the 2504’s

I have the fabreeko kit for my mercury build and it comes with the honey badger ones but I’m gonna pick up 2 LDO ones. They’re built the same spec 2.4A

https://www.fabreeko.com/products/ldo-42sth48-2504ah-high-temp?variant=46113714929919

[dry crest]

@regal gorge turtle said for hybrid 200w is enough for 4 motors

[regal gorge]

For 4 motors yes

For 8 no

@sharp rover are you in US?

[sharp rover]

Yes I am

[regal gorge]

Get longer shaft motors

https://www.fabreeko.com/products/ldo-42sth48-2504ahs55-nema-17-motor-high-temp?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=9db855212&pr_rec_pid=8910842331391&pr_ref_pid=7532014305535&pr_seq=uniform

[sharp rover]

For all 4?

I’ll have the extra 2 from the kit that are normal shaft, I could use those for hybrid 👀

Then add another 2 motors for AWD hybrid later

[regal gorge]

Yes

[regal gorge]

The awd mod supports double shear

[sharp rover]

What’s double shear? There’s only 2 in stock so I’ll see if I can find 2 more or wait for more to be in stock

[regal gorge]

I recommend motors with a shaft longer of 46mm or more

[sharp rover]

Perfect I’ll just see if I can find 4 of those

[regal gorge]

Double shear is supporting the motor shaft at the end whit a bearing so it does not bend under load

[sharp rover]

Awesome thank you for explaining

I found a place that has 4 of them so I’ll do those for the initial AWD. I’ll save the other two motors for hybrid and buy 2 more later

[regal gorge]

I will look to see where you can get a set of 4 so you dont have to wait

[regal gorge]

Send link

[sharp rover]

It only lets me add one 😦 let me find somewhere else

https://peedee3d.com/products/ldo-42sth48-2504ahs55

[regal gorge]

Also, you said you want to do awd on 6mm belt right?

[sharp rover]

I’m moving anyways so wouldn’t be able to order till next week

I think the kit is 6mm belt let me double check

[regal gorge]

Yes

[sharp rover]

Yeah 6mm belt for now

May swap to 9mm later on but since I have 6mm I’ll use 6mm

[sharp rover]

https://kb-3d.com/store/stepper-motors-servos/1382-ldo-stepper-motor-nema-17-42sth48-2804ahs55-super-power-ht-1723666322079.html

Would those work?

[regal gorge]

The 9mm belt is a 50-100 dollar upgrade from the 6mm

[sharp rover]

Oh wait those are the 2804.

[regal gorge]

Get 2504 not 2804, from what I understand the 2804 are weaker

[sharp rover]

That’s not too bad. I’ll probably do that when I do phase 2 with hybrid and 48v.

[regal gorge]

So 8wd is the end goal as well?

[sharp rover]

Correct

I’ll see if they add more stock by the time I order. If not do you think 4 of the regular shaft ones will work? I can order 4 long shafts later and use the regular ones for hybrid

[regal gorge]

That would make 3 8wd machines in the works

[sharp rover]

I need to reprint my frame braces lol or find some new ones.

[regal gorge]

That should do, I had regular shaft for 6mm, I got long shaft motors for 9mm

[sharp rover]

Okay cool I may do that and do long shaft/9mm at the same time

[regal gorge]

Some aluminum L brachets will aslo be a big help for the stock frame

[sharp rover]

Yeah Im gonna order those too. I like the way the printed ones look so I wanna do both

[regal gorge]

Do both, they help a lot

[sharp rover]

Awesome I’ll have to look for the printed ones. I’m so excited to get this built

[regal gorge]

Do a build log when you start

Also

You need to think about hotend choice

Since the printer will be stupid fast

[sharp rover]

I plan on it

[sharp rover]

Oh I already have a Goliath and vz hextrudort plus

Cpap for cooling

Cartographer probe for bed mesh/auto z

[regal gorge]

Perfect

Electronics?

[sharp rover]

Octopus pro 723 with 5160t pros for all AB motors and 2209 for z and extruder

[regal gorge]

You will need 8 drivers for 8wd

And a separate board for z

[regal gorge]

Did you but these?

Or are you planning?

[sharp rover]

Yeah that’ll be with phase 2 after I build. Fabreeko has the octopus for $45 and I have plenty of drivers or AliExpress has the pro

[sharp rover]

I’ve bought the board and the 2209

I haven’t bought the 5160t yet I’m planning on next week after I move

[regal gorge]

Check if a btt kraken would be cheaper than 8 5160t

[hollow marsh]

Hoping to have mine running today

[sharp rover]

I’ll check and see

[hollow marsh]

Depends if my gantry shows up or not.

[regal gorge]

I see that you ended up getting the skr mini e3 v3

[hollow marsh]

Yeah funny story

Ordered the wrong one

Lol

Gonna make it work!

[regal gorge]

🤣🤣

[sharp rover]

So it’s about the same price 🤔 $10 difference so I mean I’ll probably do the 8 5160t since I’ll do it in two batches. I’ll get 4 now then another 4 later. The 5160t comes in pack of 5 so I’d have 2 extra and just grab a cheap board for Z/Extruder.

[hollow marsh]

Look at the sb2209

Over usb

That's what I'm doing

[regal gorge]

The skr pico would be the best choice for z

[hollow marsh]

Oh I read extruder

Not z lol

[regal gorge]

I will get one soon

[sharp rover]

I thought about a toolhead board but I don’t know if I wanna mess with CAN. I may wait for the nitehawk comes back out but for now I’ll just run everything straight to the board

[sharp rover]

I’ll be doing extruder and z on another board when I do 8WD

[hollow marsh]

That's why I got the sb2209 it's usb

[regal gorge]

By the end of the mods you will have 12 motors

8 for 8wd, 3 for z and one for extruder

[regal gorge]

Are you building a stealth burner?

[hollow marsh]

Nope, but liked the USB breakout

Has all the connections I need too

Doing the CNC vz head

[regal gorge]

So just making a custom mount for it

What extruder?

Did you order a goliath?

[hollow marsh]

Yeah

To both

[regal gorge]

?

[hollow marsh]

Oh hgx lite

[regal gorge]

Oh, yeah, I remember

[hollow marsh]

I went so over budget lmao

[regal gorge]

So many goodies

As usual

When I started building this printer I thought that I wont go over 1000 Dollars

I am at the 2000 mark now

And by the end of it I might be at 3000

[hollow marsh]

I think I'm just below 3

[regal gorge]

3 below 3000?

@hollow marsh

[hollow marsh]

Yeah just below 3k, for everything.

Scared to run the actual numbers

[regal gorge]

Might be off, I am scared too

[sharp rover]

My z only has 2 motors im not doing hydra so 11

[regal gorge]

Same

[sharp rover]

Same, I set a loose budget and completely threw it away lol

[gusty oak]

Man that extruder hotend combo is wild.

[regal gorge]

Wildly expensive

[gusty oak]

Yeah i only think its funny having on of the best and most expensive hotends and the using the hgx lite as an extruder. Which isnt bad i have one. But it kinda feels like steel rims on hypercar 😄

[sharp rover]

Yeah mine was about $200 for Goliath, vz hextrudort plus, and the 8T moons motor

[hollow marsh]

Isn't it one of the best extruders?

For the weight

[regal gorge]

I got a std6 orbiter with sensor and a toolboard for that price

[regal gorge]

Maybe

[sharp rover]

I was debating orbiter with the filament sensor and orbiter toolhead board. I may still do that eventually and use the hextrudort for another build xD

[hollow marsh]

I went for as light as possible for everything

[regal gorge]

There is a sensor for hextrudort

[sharp rover]

Is there? I couldn’t find one and just went with the btt smart filament sensor lol

[gusty oak]

honestly good question. Whats the weight of the hgx lite?

It says 48g for hgx 2.0

[hollow marsh]

When I was looking it was the lightest. I don't have the number though

[gusty oak]

I found one amazon listing saying it weights 77g

[hollow marsh]

I think it was like 130 or something with the motor

Lightweight (125 - 155 grams depending on motor equipped)

[sharp rover]

The vz-hextrudort plus is 51g without the motor

I haven’t weighed with the motor

I think I’m gonna do the vz printed toolhead then swap to cnc one later on

[gusty oak]

Vz-Hextrudort is 39,4g without motor according to cr3d

[hollow marsh]

I'm working on 9mm conversion

[sharp rover]

I think the plus weighs more it has a couple of extra pieces

[hollow marsh]

The only do 6mm right now

[sharp rover]

Nice! I’m gonna run 6mm at first then I’ll do 9mm later

Don’t they have a 9mm printed option?

[hollow marsh]

I think so

Just not CNC, printed one to check, then I'll CNC it out

[gusty oak]

yeah thats what i will do to, was about to order the cnc one but the black ones a sold out

[sharp rover]

I tired looking for it and couldn’t find it lol

[sharp rover]

Do you have a cnc 👀 eventually I’d like to get one so I can make my own parts lol

[sharp rover]

Yeah I found a vendor in the states that has it but I think I’m gonna go with the printed version at first

[hollow marsh]

Yeah I have a shapeoko

Absolutely love it

[sharp rover]

I’ll have to check it out. I was looking at building the Milo v1.5 but I wanna explore my options first

[hushed marlin]

Man I wish I had your ability to rapidly spend money ahah

[hollow marsh]

It's a problem

I mean feature

[hushed marlin]

Give me your money, I will hold it like a bank

I'm slowly buying parts ahah

But not skimping anywhere so

[hushed marlin]

Same combo as me, they even have a combo water block for extruder and hotend

Oh wait, that's no hex I see but still yeah

[gusty oak]

Yeah Hextruder wouldnt be wild, those two a perfect combo 😄

[hushed marlin]

As soon as I saw the Goliaths cartridge cable I was like WTF That is THICC

[gusty oak]

Yeah Goliath is a Monster.

But for me it was a bit overkill so i got the Rapido Ace HF and i have to say it works pretty nice so far

[hushed marlin]

Yeah I saw that one, I only got the Goliath because of the high flow, designed for VZbot head and can be integrated into the extruder, I had no idea you could take the heartbreak off and just bolt it through the head into the Hextrudort once you have the water block for it, so then it does both in one like this

[hollow marsh]

Waterblock was heavier which is why I went against it

[hushed marlin]

That's not the water block for the hotend though

That's the Hextrudorts waterblock

[dry crest]

I wanted to buy the goliath but first I need to get the settings right with Hextruder

[hollow marsh]

Why would you need a waterblock for your extruder?

[regal gorge]

so you dont need it for the hotend

[hollow marsh]

Oh I see

[regal gorge]

space saving, nice, but expensive

[hollow marsh]

Is it that advantageous over an air cooling block? The water cooling one was more weight, and I have never had an issue before with air. Then again, haven't pushed these insane speeds before.

[hollow marsh]

Originally I was like this will be a good cost effective way, then did the same thing and I am at almost 3k lmao

[regal gorge]

better cooling in a chamber, without it you are more likely to get heat creep if you print slow

[hollow marsh]

Gotcha

How hot are people pushing these chambers to?

[regal gorge]

60C usually, but with water cooling and no toolhead board you could go higher

if you don't use any plastic parts inside the chamber and isolate it properly you might be able to reach PEEK printing temps

[hushed marlin]

Yeah I actually ordered an IGUS CF130 cable with 20 core? So it can handle up to 80c, I wish there was a tool board that could handle the temps too tbh, there may still be a way

[unreal bolt]

Machine a peek toolhead

I read that wrong

[hushed marlin]

From vzbot it looks like there's an advantage and it reduces weight without the need for fan mount or fan, the weight is likely less than the air one because you remove the heartbreak entirely and the hotend bolts to the extruder, so it's not the water model

[signal furnace]

please share these lol

@regal gorgeHey btw i saw you mentioned in a video the other day on a very well build Mercury 1 AWD. great work! im actually thinking of swapping the hybrid system over to AWD since i have the motors, just need to make the mounts and get a few extra bearings and longer belts

[regal gorge]

Thank you @signal furnace, awd is easier to tune, it will also work with shake and tune, if you do please share the progress, I want to see it goes.

[signal furnace]

Will do it have 2 projects that'll come before it, but it is something I want to get done.

[regal gorge]

The turtle box was nice

[signal furnace]

Thanks! It was a good project. I'm going to be doing a Switchwire livestream build next. 🙂

[regal gorge]

Nice, when will you livestream?

[signal furnace]

Not sure I should have the kit in a couple weeks

[hushed marlin]

Would there be any way of using the hybrid setup with full metal gantry? From what I can see the gantry parts are attached to printed parts which makes sense but could it be modified?

[hollow marsh]

It will need to modified

Also you can't use the SCS mod with the hybrid

Going to try and come up with a custom solution for that

[sharp rover]

I wonder if you could modify it to be on the front/back of the bed instead of the left/right sides? 🤔

[hollow marsh]

Was thinking that, with Hydra it blocks the middle, and the front bar had to be lowered for AWD hybrid

So needs mods either way

@regal gorge what amps were you running for your 100k 1000mms

[regal gorge]

You can use the mod with metal gantry, the mod bolts the gantry and the bolt hole and position do not change with the metal gantry, maybe just the mounting bolt length

[regal gorge]

2A

[dry crest]

the better question do you get good prints with 100k 1000mms

[regal gorge]

unlikely, but that would be more for travel moves

I am waiting for a std6 to test at full speed

I might be able to get a sub 3 min benchy

[hollow marsh]

What is the max temp these motors should hit?

[regal gorge]

60-70C

with heatsinks around 55C

[hollow marsh]

HAHAHA

Oh

I am at like 40C and was like ooooooo

[regal gorge]

the plastic parts are the weak link, the motors should stay below 80 to be safe

[hollow marsh]

FYI to anyone using autotune_tmc with a hybrid setup, if using the default setup with auto, it will only tune a,b,c. So for hybrid one of the two, and if you are awd, only 2 of the 4 awd, or awd hybrid 3 out of 8. Make sure to add the correct voltage you are running as well. Otherwise it will enable stealthchop and you will get terrible performance

[autotune_tmc stepper_a]
motor: ldo-42sth48-2504ah
voltage: 54
tuning_goal: performance

[hollow marsh]

What do you think about bearings for hybrid for gt3?

[sharp rover]

I don’t see bearings on the bom for hybrid. Do I need more?

[hollow marsh]

Nope

No bearings currently

[dry crest]

Voltage 54 holy shit

[sharp rover]

Okay dope are you moving the long shaft 2.5a motors down to hybrid?

[hollow marsh]

Was wondering what @regal gorge was thinking

[hollow marsh]

Haven't decided yet, will prob use em for my beta plus

[hollow marsh]

#spicy

[sharp rover]

That’d be dope. I may eventually upgrade to the 3A ones but I want to get mine built first and see what I’m working with 🤣. I’ll buy the honey badger ones when they drop

[hollow marsh]

I mean I already got 3min with the current ones

I run em at 1.750 54 volts, 8 min speed, 15 min quality

For my normal printing profile

Stupid fast

[dry crest]

What kind of power supply do you have

[hollow marsh]

LRS-600-48

[dry crest]

Ok

[hollow marsh]

Love it, fan only turns on during speed runs. Max adjusted is 54v, super solid

Have a second one if I need it for 8wd at 3amps

[dry crest]

Hmm I wonder if I can do that mercury one plus version

[hollow marsh]

Single or double?

[dry crest]

?

[hollow marsh]

This is a pro

[hollow marsh]

So much room for activites!

I like the UHP, just spendy.

[dry crest]

😝

[hollow marsh]

As I have like 3k in mine lmao

Oh well

[dry crest]

Got it for 60 euro

[hollow marsh]

Bro

I paid that for my lrs

[dry crest]

Lol

[hollow marsh]

Super score

[regal gorge]

You want double shear with that?

https://tenor.com/view/cheese-touch-gif-20942552

[hollow marsh]

no kill like over kill

[regal gorge]

Double shear on that thing

I will see how motivated I am tomorrow

Might make a variant with double shear

[hollow marsh]

Haha sounds good, was just curious

[hushed marlin]

I wonder if I could do a fiver to convert the FDM hybrid parts to be CNC so I could maybe install it alongside full metal gantry in...metal

[regal gorge]

Hey,@dry crest , I finally got around to making the powersupply brakets

[dry crest]

I will take a look later I'm now at work

[regal gorge]

one small oversight, let me fix it

[regal gorge]

might need some supports but it should work

this needs no supports

[hollow marsh]

We're working on converting to metal soon

[regal gorge]

soon

[hollow marsh]

Honestly though. I'm running 1250mm/s and 150k and the motors are skipping before anything ASA has broken

[regal gorge]

for the rear motors I can make some parts now if you want

[regal gorge]

you could get a 2 min benchy with that accel

[hollow marsh]

That's the goal

Need a cht volcano first

Ran out of hotend

2:59, 3:03, 3:14

[regal gorge]

that is why I got the std6

[hollow marsh]

Yeah

I absolutely love the Goliath tho

Absolutely flawless prints in every material I throw at it

[regal gorge]

its a better hotend, looks and daily speeds

[hollow marsh]

Plus still top 10 in the world

[regal gorge]

yes

[hollow marsh]

Unofficial

[regal gorge]

want to go official?

[hollow marsh]

Going to soon, might wait until the krakens tho

So I don't beat it everytime I change something

The krakens are the last thing I can think of besides metal that would make it faster by a substantial amount

[regal gorge]

for 2.59 what speed and accel?

[hollow marsh]

And a std6

That was 900 and 117k I think

[regal gorge]

not bad

[hollow marsh]

Was messing with speed ratio in klipper tho

[regal gorge]

and it skips at that speed?

[hollow marsh]

Need to document some more

No skips

Was running 2.450A at 54V tho

Absolutely maxing the motors

[regal gorge]

motor temp?

[hollow marsh]

About 68c at the end, I set my macros so the motors literally turn on, home, and go straight to printing before shutting off.

Minimum time enabled as possible for heat

[regal gorge]

more cooling is needed

also

you want to do the side cooling?

@hollow marsh

[hollow marsh]

Oh yeah I'm working on a solution for that

Using the aux cooling fans on the frame to blow air across the heatsinks

[hollow marsh]

Oooo

[regal gorge]

might not work at all

[hollow marsh]

I was doing something similar

[regal gorge]

the duct is thick

if I can make it thiner it might help

[hollow marsh]

I'll send a pic of what I have when I get home

[sharp rover]

I’m down to try it on my plus. I already have the fans ordered 😎

[dry crest]

I wonder if I need it because I have CPAP

[regal gorge]

do you have hydra?

[sharp rover]

No im running stock bed

[regal gorge]

only if cpap cant keep up

[sharp rover]

I’m gonna run cpap too but also dual side cooling cause why not lol

[regal gorge]

then you will have to mount them in the back or front

[dry crest]

I think it can fit on my printer

[regal gorge]

you can easily

hybrid is getting in the way

and on the 275bed is verry tight

[sharp rover]

I figured I would, do you think the community version will work or will I have to modify it?

[dry crest]

I'm only gonna use the hybrid because the Y axis is heavy on the plus version

[regal gorge]

might just work

[regal gorge]

I am making adjustments so that the side cooling works with it

[dry crest]

ooh nice

[sharp rover]

I think there should be enough room between the motor mounts on the bottom

[hollow marsh]

I run CPAP at 40 max for normal prints

It blew my print off the bed once lol

[dry crest]

I only do 10%

[hollow marsh]

Yeah it's crazy powerful. Mines usually around 10-20 depending on layer time

[regal gorge]

@hollow marsh

you are getting less speed with kraken motors

[hollow marsh]

I honestly think the higher acceleration would benefit the time more than higher speed since the benchys have such short moves

Also those aren't the kraken v2s

They haven't released data about them yet I thought

[regal gorge]

the 30 tooth pulleys would help

[hollow marsh]

2804 motor looks wack

Are those stats right?

[hollow marsh]

I have decided to go a different direction than the 120mm blower fan for motor cooling

Going to make sleeves that slide over these with 80mm fans, the kraken v2s have temp sensors in them so I can wire and control the fans based on each motors temp sensor.

[hushed marlin]

Man I need your money ahah it's already set up and running?

[hollow marsh]

#morelikedebt

Yeah! You can see some prints, speed benchys, thermal imaging, etc in my build log!

https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1310688818944282624

[hushed marlin]

Holy crap I do not have that money to spend yet ahah, Im still waiting on fasteners for the metal parts and hydra is seemingly double the price so I'm not even looking at that atm

[hollow marsh]

Yeah hydra is spendyyyyyyyyy

[hushed marlin]

I'm definitely doing the hybrid with full metal but interested in seeing AWD metal

[valid hamlet]

I like that. I might pull the air up rather than trying to redirect the flow around the motor.

[hushed marlin]

if im even considering looking at doing a hybrid build with full metal gantry would there be any issues in having 9mm belts on top and 6mm on bottom?

[regal gorge]

no issues

[hushed marlin]

be

a

utiful

so im just looking at the file now and so is it this bolt that would attach to the gantry itself? (you've said it before but had to wrap my head around it) and If using a square aluminium tube I would really just bolt through the printed piece, into the plate, through the tube and then maybe a nylock nut on the other side?

this is the only part that I can see that would need to attach to the metal plate parts

for this part that is

[regal gorge]

yes

since the metal gantry still stands on the rail the spacing is the same

so it does not sit differently on the plastic parts than the metal parts

[hushed marlin]

awesome, surprisingly SLM for all these parts is only $205AUD vs $300+ to CNC them, aside from metal would ASA suffice? Id be using craftcloud so really any material is doable

[regal gorge]

asa is sufficient, I have not tested any metal, so I cant say if they will work

[hushed marlin]

If I could print for CF-PC?

[regal gorge]

probably, I think it should be better than asa

[hollow marsh]

Honestly, I haven't found the limits of ASA and have the fastest one in the world now.

Just something to consider

Nothing metal yet

[hushed marlin]

il print in ASA

what infill did you do?

[regal gorge]

42

4 walls

the standard I think

If you are worried about the strength you can do more

[hushed marlin]

42%?

[hollow marsh]

I did 40, 5 walls, 5 top and bottom

[regal gorge]

yes

[hollow marsh]

Used about a roll and a half so it was like $35

Still running like an absolute champ, not a single issue

[sharp rover]

For now 😏😏. Jk my plus will probably be slower than yours 🤣🤣🤣

[hushed marlin]

sweet, I'll go for 40%

[regal gorge]

it is by 20-30%

[hushed marlin]

and when AWD metal is done I'll just laser cut some new plates ahaha

[sharp rover]

I figured lol. It’s okay, we’ll have the fastest plus’s in the world 😎

[hushed marlin]

also if there's anyone here from Aus and wants to do what Im doing with full metal gantry and hybrid I have a mostly whole spare set aside from the idler towers laser cut and polished im straight up giving away

[regal gorge]

you can post in the https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1006521404964995195

[hollow marsh]

My next build is a Mercdex

[regal gorge]

?

[hollow marsh]

Merc idex AWD, hybrid.

[regal gorge]

aa

[hollow marsh]

I'm calling it the Mercdex

[regal gorge]

6 motors per toolhead move

[hollow marsh]

Doing it in the plus frame

Gonna need a lot of room lol

Wanna do the 400x400 Hydra too

[regal gorge]

the awd hybrid is for all y moves and 2 motors out of 4 for toolhead x moves

[hushed marlin]

If only I could source a 400mm bed in my state lol

[regal gorge]

you wont be able to use it all with hybrid

the belt from hybrid is going to rub on the fan duct

the 370 is the best option, but if you do awd without hybrid you might be able to get the full 400mm

[hushed marlin]

I can only really get 370 anyway so that's not so bad

[regal gorge]

If I get the 400 I might make custom parts so that the whole bed is accessible, hydra might need some custom parts for that too, since the bed is going to have more surface forward

[sharp rover]

I thought about the 400 over the stock 377 but it’ll be another $500 just for an extra 23mm of build space

Maybe if I did a beta plus build from scratch then I’d do it

[hushed marlin]

It's just the cost that distributers charge for the beds being insane, like getting the bed cut is like $145AUD for me and the heater is $100 but they sell for like $380+

[hollow marsh]

That's why I'm doing it haha

Since I'm starting from scratch with that build

Once the frame gets here in a month or two

[sharp rover]

Exactly and I mean I know they gotta make profit but dang 😭😭

[sharp rover]

See I was thinking of going the alternate route and doing pro build from scratch but may just do another plus one and then buy a used 5 pro off marketplace and use that frame 🤣. I have a problem I want too many printers

[hushed marlin]

Where I am the extrusion usually cost less than second hand printer tbh

[sharp rover]

Honestly yeah plus creality frames are crap

Or can be crap

Dual beta builds one plus one pro lol

[hushed marlin]

Yeah I mean I'm buying extrusions for rigidity and enclosure and it's like $38 for 4.8m which is basically 8.5 lengths of the square for the plus

[sharp rover]

Yeah that just makes way more sense. Plus I can get it a custom color

People want $150 for stock ender 3s on marketplace in my area 🤣🤣

[hushed marlin]

Orrrrrr spray it some sparkly colour like me

[sharp rover]

I did find a plus for $300 which isn’t crazy

[sharp rover]

Ooo true that’s a good option as well

[hushed marlin]

That's still somewhat expensive, I got mine for $250 but yeah if you look at auto paints youl see there are sooooooooo many options and they're durable AF, heat resistant and have gloss, sparkly, colour shift etc

[sharp rover]

Yeah most of them here are listed for $400-$500 which is way too much to me. I’ll have to check them out and see. Color shift would be sick

[hushed marlin]

You can even just get the anodised effect in spray

[hollow marsh]

I don't think there are any dual speed benchy runs

I wanna have the fastest dual benchy with idex

Two at the same with like sub 5 would be so cool

[hushed marlin]

At this point Im convinced you work for a reserve bank and are just printing money

[hollow marsh]

No comment

[hushed marlin]

😂 but really, are you going to try to make some money with the printers?

[hollow marsh]

Motor cooling is insanely successful

[hushed marlin]

Damnnnn, how much were those heatsinks each? Il order some for all mine if they work that well

[hollow marsh]

$2

40x40x20

Easycargo 8pcs 40mm Heatsink Kit 40x40x20mm + 3M8810 Thermal Conductive Adhesive Tape, Cooler Aluminium Heat Sink for Cooling 3D Printer Stepper Motor TEC1-12706 Thermoelectric Peltier 40mmx40mmx20mm https://a.co/d/igveRHj

You could even get away with just the 4

[sharp rover]

Okay I got those heatsinks

What fans did you get or what is that around the one at 25c. Is that the design you posted the other night?

That is insanely successful

[hollow marsh]

Yeah

I'm going to make a formal write up and officialof

Mod

ANVISION 2-Pack 80mm x 25mm DC 24V Brushless Cooling Fan, Dual Ball Bearing https://a.co/d/5wRhk0z

[sharp rover]

Dope

Ty ty

[hollow marsh]

You need fan extensions tooSJZBIN 6PCS 1M 3D Printer Parts Cooling Fan Extension Cable 3D Printer Accessories 1M Cooling Fan Extension Cable, Black https://a.co/d/iw2q2zk

[sharp rover]

Sweet got them added to the cart

[hushed marlin]

Ooft, those are $30 for 4 on Amazon Aus, that'd be $150 just on heatsinks, think I might need to find cheaper ones

[sharp rover]

I can find some on Ali but not sure if that’d be any better for you

[hollow marsh]

Any 40x40x20 will do!

I can adjust the mod for 20x20x20 also

[sharp rover]

I just found this on AliExpress: $5.01 | 4pcs Heatsink 40x40x20mm Aluminum Heat Sink Cooler for Cooling Raspberry
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPeFWu7

Those should work

[hollow marsh]

I need to adjust the fan grills a bit too, it makes it whine a bit right now, I think too resistance

[sharp rover]

Are you having it pull air in from the top or bottom?

[hollow marsh]

Testing both but top blowing down

Less restrictive and the other way will pull hot air from the build plate

[sharp rover]

That’s what I was thinking

[hollow marsh]

I was honestly thinking with the beta frame and some changes you could have an air exhaust system to keep the motors cool with outside air

[sharp rover]

2nd cpap 👀 like an octopus

🤣🤣🤣

[hollow marsh]

Hahahaha

OMG for idex I'm going to need two full tool heads

[sharp rover]

FACTS

[hollow marsh]

Two goliaths, two CPAP,

Ouch

[sharp rover]

My toolchanger needs six ☠️

[hollow marsh]

OUCH

[sharp rover]

Oof could do dual 5015’s but not as cool as two cpaps

I know ☠️ I’m gonna go budget version and use sovol’s toolheads to start with then maybe swap some stuff out on them and upgrade them so it shouldn’t be too bad.

[hushed marlin]

Could something like this work for the hybrid stepper mounts? I can't find the measurements/ exact hole location for that vertical screw but it looks very close to the printed one and would be aluminium, could it work?

[hollow marsh]

Wait a second, I have one of those I think

Lemme try

I don't see why not, honestly.

[hushed marlin]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007728660567.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.712d3a0a1jqobS&algo_pvid=54da56a2-289a-45c4-b4a9-7ee1a7df4dd8&algo_exp_id=54da56a2-289a-45c4-b4a9-7ee1a7df4dd8-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis!AUD!5.09!5.09!!!23.13!23.13!%402101c59117345757080694609e7407!12000042008744873!sea!AU!1884627426!X&curPageLogUid=36y7E6Pv0Rd0&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch|query_from%3A

[hushed marlin]

Interesting! Did it look like it might fit/allign?

[hollow marsh]

I found it, but installed on one of my other printers... I really think it would work. You could adjust the height of the belt with the pulley. I would wait for @regal gorge to give his blessing tho

[hushed marlin]

Oh true! Only because they're cheap, rigid and metal @regal gorge what do you reckon?

[hollow marsh]

Pretty sure its like 3am for him, so might be a bit for a response. FYI

[hushed marlin]

Wake up Stan!

I wonder if the idler parts could be similar

[hollow marsh]

Are you going to run awd hybrid or 2ed hybrid

Looking at the dimensions, it all checks out. It may offset the belt ever so slightly but I don't see that being a problem. For 2wd the idler parts would be the exact same. The only thing I don't like about it is no side support. Where his design uses the corner to help rigidity. With two on the back, it would make it a better of a lever, but I don't think that would cause any issues.

[hushed marlin]

I'm gonna start with the regular hybrid with the 2 steppers below, because I'm doing the full metal gantry. I think given the thickness and rigidity it wouldn't be an issue without the side hole imo

[regal gorge]

they should work fine if you file these so they don't poke

[hushed marlin]

YAY!

thanks!

[sharp rover]

Hopefully going to get my printers up and running and get started on my merc parts this weekend. @regal gorge do you have the files for the AWD hybrid for the plus?

[regal gorge]

Yes, do you need them now?

@sharp rover

[sharp rover]

Not at this exact moment. Maybe in the next few hours. It can wait until morning for you I just realized it’s super late for you I’m sorry for the ping

[regal gorge]

It only 11pm, I can sent them in a few minutes

[sharp rover]

Whoops I had the time zone differences wrong lol

That’d be perfect thank you so much

[regal gorge]

I will DM you the files

[dry crest]

@regal gorge he went crazy again https://www.facebook.com/reel/1110551317001480

[sharp rover]

Ahh so it’s 6wd that looks sick

[regal gorge]

Yeah, no mention of the creator of the mod or a link to the mod though

A link to the mod would have been nice, it make it easier for people to find it

[regal gorge]

He mentions that someone made a video on the hybrid mod, do you guys know what video is he talking about?

[dry crest]

I have no idea

[hollow marsh]

Probably the other guy

That tied precursor

[regal gorge]

He did awd, he might have just browsed my github repo

On a side topic, @hollow marsh when you change the motors, could you check the weight of the moving mass on you printer?

Like the whole x azis with the toolhead and joints

[hollow marsh]

Sure thing

[sharp rover]

Yeah at the very least a link to the mod

[cerulean wasp]

This is from when I built my Merc on a Pro. Hope it helps!

Rapido hotend, 5015 cooling fan, 4010 hotend fan and orbiter 2 are on there, 330mm MGM12H rail, plain 2020 extrusion from Fabreeko's kit.

[regal gorge]

That is great info

Thank you

[regal gorge]

Are you building the hybrid mod too?

[cerulean wasp]

Happy to help! I've got all the commerical parts to install your hybrid mod. Even printed one of the past revisions of the parts. Currently working through some heat creep issues on my Rapido. I think I'll lose some X and Y on the 275mm bed with Hybrid. Some due to Eva 3 UHF ducts, some due to Klicky probe.

[regal gorge]

On the beta frame I have a mod in the works to minimize the loss

I still have to post it

[regal gorge]

https://github.com/Stanciu-Andrei/UserMods/tree/main/Mercury_One/stanciuandrei_/STD6_Toolhead

[hushed marlin]

I wonder if the stepper mounts for the all metal gantry could be modified to be a little further out to maybe add double shear support for the hybrid steppers

[crisp bay]

hey, I thought I'd share my input shaper results after this mod 😋

[regal gorge]

Thank you for this

Its awesome how close the x and y are now

So nice

[crisp bay]

thanks for the mod 😁, I'm really impressed how close they are now.

before the mod it was around 3600 on the y

I should add my mecury one is 410x 410x 550ish and has heavy ercf v2 hanging off the back.

[regal gorge]

Pic?

[crisp bay]

I'm trying to see a video of it but discord has a 10mb limit

*send

[hushed marlin]

The stepper online 2504 weirdly has the 55mm version at $22aud vs the 25mm at $29, would there be any issues in using the 55mm version for the hybrid portion?

[regal gorge]

There should be no issue other than aesthetics

[gusty oak]

You can always cut the shaft ;D

[hushed marlin]

Can the double shear that I saw with @hollow marshs build be used?

*double shear support

Or is that for the 25mm shaft?

[regal gorge]

Yes, even the 25mm one can do double shear hybrid

[sharp rover]

Is there any benefit to adding double shear for hybrid? Should I add it lol

[regal gorge]

No clue

[hollow marsh]

Any plans for 9mm belts, with 8mm shaft double shear? Got 5 more honeys on the way

[dry crest]

5 more OMG

[hollow marsh]

4 for hybrid, and one backup lol

8 total

Really really really want those temp sensors

[dry crest]

I want them too but I'm not sure if they are worth it the import cost

[hollow marsh]

Oh shoot

Where you at?

[dry crest]

Netherlands

[hushed marlin]

Hmm, yeah I'd do 9mm belts for hybrid too if it meant better performance, the steppers aren't too much more than the normal 2504s

[hushed marlin]

I'd buy the classifieds if fabreeko didn't charge $108 for shipping lol, even their lowest shipping to Aus is like $60

[sharp rover]

Would it make sense to keep 6mm for the classifieds? I just ran all my belts 🤣

[hollow marsh]

You totally could

[sharp rover]

Okay I’m leaning towards that or using the classifieds to AWD my enderxy and using 9mm belts for that or still staying on 6mm. Not sure what I wanna do with them yet

[regal gorge]

I might down grade to 6mm on the awd on mine since I cant use the toolchanger with 9mm

9mm on the hybrid is going to come in a few months, depending on when I am going back home

[sharp rover]

Oh snap so I’ll just stay 6mm then. I may use the classifieds with them and print the 8mm shaft parts but we’ll see

[regal gorge]

So 8wd toolchanger is the plan?

4 toolheads is max for 8wd and 6 for 6wd and awd

[hollow marsh]

Idex is still the plan for me

Just so I can set the record

[sharp rover]

Hmm possibly. I may do a scratch plus build or do a pro build but 4 should be fine 6 may be preferred 🤔

Instead of taking off two motors I’ll just do another build. It makes more sense in my head that way 😂

[regal gorge]

I will still need to design better motor mounts for the liftbar, or some macros

I might do something based galileo z

[sharp rover]

I could toolchange a pro sized beta build but I feel like doing it on the plus would make more sense

[regal gorge]

On plus you get 6 toolheads, on pro you might get 4 at most

[sharp rover]

Yeah I think plus would be the way to go with the 400mm bed and just do AWD maybe 6WD

I could use the classified motors for that omg

I’ll decide when we’re ready to toolchange who knows maybe I’ll do it on my current build

[regal gorge]

I will need to test for the 400mm, you might not get any benefit from it

[sharp rover]

Okay I can do the 377 hydra it doesn’t have to be 400mm or if I do a 400mm build I’ll toolchange the current one

We got time to figure it out 😎 and for me to hopefully same some money (big doubt) 🤣

[regal gorge]

Even on the normal merc you dont get full coverage

[sharp rover]

Yeah I’d be okay with losing some bed space

[regal gorge]

I might mod the hydra so that you get more bed space

[sharp rover]

That’d be sick or if I’m having to do a new frame may as well make it a little bigger or go custom frame

[hushed marlin]

I'd love that, I'm likely to get my bed cut because it's cheaper so a little bigger isn't much more

[regal gorge]

🔥

[blazing ravine]

A and B if run one by one will not drive only one axis, but will move the toolhead diagonally.

[regal gorge]

Yes, then for diagonal moves, 4 motors move the toolhead

[blazing ravine]

Man, I answered a chat that was old enough to have grandkids 🤣🤣

[stray flax]

There we go, @blazing ravine got to level 1!

[regal gorge]

For x moves 4 and for y moves 6

[blazing ravine]

Started reading on after it and it just never stopped. 🤣

But yeah - how is the build going along?

[regal gorge]

Working but I am waiting on a new bed sensor

[blazing ravine]

What sensor are you going for?

[regal gorge]

@sharp rover sent me a cartographer

[blazing ravine]

Nice! Eddy current is the way to go imo

[regal gorge]

I have the BDsensor right now, but it is an older revision, and it gives me inconsistent results for homing

[signal furnace]

I wish there was a BD sensor mount for the XOL. I'm a US reseller for the BD sensor

[regal gorge]

I only have a mount for eva2.4

[signal furnace]

so i got rid of TAP and ran new belts with my new XOL toolhead, i also swapped the front mounts and motor mounts for the Hybrid system to the ones in the github (i was previously using my own remix of them) im not sure if this is all belt tension or not, but im having a rough time with input shaper on this set up as well figuring out belt tension on the Hybrid system

this was last week with my remixed mounts after i removed TAP

i think it has to be all belt tension

[regal gorge]

did you sync the motors?

also were you able to implement the fix for shake and tune?

[signal furnace]

no i keep getting errors with ShakeTune

sync the motors?

this is after some belt tensioning tweaking

[dry crest]

wait do you also need to sync the motors on the hybrid version?

[regal gorge]

you sync the motors by homing, then with the motors still enabled, unscrew the grub screws from the hybrid motor pulleys, then after the belts settle tighten them back up

[signal furnace]

i'll try this now

[signal furnace]

@regal gorge had to put it back to corexy for now. Belts kept slipping from the gantry mount

I may give awd a shot since I have the motors

[sharp rover]

For the hybrid? I had to glue the belts into the gantry mount so it wouldn’t slip out. Especially with running gt3 at 200hz.

I’d still try out the AWD

[signal furnace]

Yea for right now I'm just tuning it as a standard corexy. Until I can better understand the hybrid system. Or get longer belts to do AWD lol

[hushed marlin]

Could it

Be

Time

To

SLM print those mounts?

[regal gorge]

Sorry to hear that

I dont have any problems yet

[sharp rover]

I think you could try printing the part a little smaller too

I just threw some glue on the belts as I put it in the slot for it lol

[signal furnace]

its all good, im going to go back to it. im actually going to remove the lightweight gantry and reinstall the 2020 extrusion, and revisit either the Hybrid system or AWD. i have the parts printed for AWD currently, i just need the hardware portion

im not too worried about it. i will say though, as it sits right now with Corexy input shaper is recommending a max of 4k for y, with the hybrid it was recommending 16k lol

but the graphs were ugly as hell

this is corexy

these were the last 2 hybrid graphs

im kind of surprised Klipper didnt recommend EI for Y vs MZV

[sharp rover]

Oh wow hybrid loved the y axis a lot more tha. I thought it would

[signal furnace]

yea, the thing is i had a hard time with belt tension

[sharp rover]

gt2 or gt3? Yeah I’ve had mine slip out a few times but I’ll link my y graph one sec

#1320853526691319809 message

[signal furnace]

GT2

[sharp rover]

Ahh okay I’m using gt3 but it shouldn’t affect it that much

[signal furnace]

yea, i havent tried GT3 yet.

although i have considered doing a 9mm conversion, since i hear its better for larger printers

[sharp rover]

I'm running 6mm gt3 on mine and it's been solid so far have gotten up to 1000mm/s @115k accel with no issues except my frame feels like it's going to explode lol. I'm going to be reinforcing it more today thankfully

I've thought about 9mm eventually and may swap to it if I do a rebuild or swap in the classified motors

[iron bluff]

Thinking about how I could reinforce mine even more whats your plan?

[sharp rover]

So far I did the outside metal corner braces, then I got these ordered I’m gonna add today and the printed reinforcements one too. I’m hoping this adds a good amount but may look into other stuff later.

BLCCLOY 20 Sets 78x78mm Black... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZN218PJ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

The numbers I did above were just with the metal corner ones on the outside. I know flight uses the ones above too and told me to get them too

[iron bluff]

idk I dont think theyll do much but curious to see

[sharp rover]

Yeah im hopefully optimistic but we’ll see. I’ll ping you once I get them on and do IS graph comparisons in my build log if you want

@hollow marsh says they work well for him too on a pro

[iron bluff]

yeah curious to see if it actualy makes a difference

[hollow marsh]

Made a huge difference

[dry crest]

😭 why does it need another endstop

[regal gorge]

It does not

Look closer at the documentation

The printer section, you need to put something

[dry crest]

okay I dont know what do to the endstop of C stays triggered

[dry crest]

hmm maybe its kalico that wont let me home

[regal gorge]

@dry crest

[dry crest]

I got that but I think kalico is the problem it wont let me home

[regal gorge]

@hollow marsh @sharp rover did you guys encounter this kind of error?

[sharp rover]

No I didn't

Can you send your printer.cfg and I'll review in a second

[dry crest]

@regal gorge i fixed the endstop problem but it wont let me home I think Kalico is the problem

[sharp rover]

I'm running kalico too

[hollow marsh]

Did you upgrade to the latest extended core xy

It breaks homing

[sharp rover]

Ahhh that's probably it

[dry crest]

well I installed it today

[sharp rover]

Yeah it's probably latest

Is there a way to roll back or specify during install

[dry crest]

no idea

[dry crest]

😭

[regal gorge]

I will look into it as soon as I get home

[hollow marsh]

Yeah

Go into the folder, then do git checkout 5cdc5565ac4367fef131dec5f230706d7d6bd316

[dry crest]

I tried the update but now I get this

[dry crest]

well tomorrow its time to switch back to corexy

[dry crest]

@regal gorge did you put any shims at the idlers?

[sharp rover]

There’s an m5 washer that goes with the bolt for it onto the bottom of the x axis carriage

[dry crest]

@sharp rover @regal gorge

[regal gorge]

I see you figured it out

The results are very impresive

X and y now are so close in recomended in accels

X and y are amost identical now, if you ask someone which is which without the text at the top, it is very likely they would get them backwards

[dry crest]

the only thing what I cant test is the belt responses

[regal gorge]

That might be fixable if I understood correctly, @hollow marsh made a fix for it

[dry crest]

yeah but I cant find the text in one file the others I could find

@regal gorge 6mm belt btw

[regal gorge]

I will look into, posting the info in the github readme

[dry crest]

it also fixed my problem with the stupid line in my prints

[sharp rover]

I need to double check mine cause I still don’t think it shows the numbers

[regal gorge]

That is great news

[sharp rover]

Did you have to change anything else?

[dry crest]

what do you mean?

for now I only change the files shaketune/commands/compare_belts_responses.py and shaketune/commands/create_vibrations_profile.py

@regal gorge

[hollow marsh]

Looks amazing!!!!

[regal gorge]

Turns out the answer was more performance

[dry crest]

Yep

[sharp rover]

I did that and mine doesn’t show the numbers I may try and reinstall

[dry crest]

did you reboot?

[sharp rover]

Yeah it’s been a week or two since it’s been like this

I may just try reinstalling and changing the files

[sharp rover]

i think i figured it out hopefully

[hushed marlin]

@regal gorge theoretically what would need to change to the front stepper towers to work with the back full metal stepper tower mounts?

I'd love to do AWD probably 6WD at first with printed front AWD stepper towers

[regal gorge]

A the bearings might need to sit a little lower

I need to see in cad

[hushed marlin]

Ooh! So not too much modifications, Il take a look as well

[dry crest]

@regal gorge @sharp rover with the hybrid system

[sharp rover]

that looks amazing! Link to the model?

[dry crest]

its from eastman patreon https://www.patreon.com/c/eastman/posts

[signal furnace]

If you didn't figure it out. Reach out to the Dev over at snakoil. He got it figured out for me. Even remkted into my machine to make the changes.

[dry crest]

its working just a few features of shaketune isn't

[signal furnace]

Yea

[signal furnace]

@regal gorgedid you say you had a BD sensor mount for the Eva? is it for the 2.4 or for the 3

[regal gorge]

Yes, for eva2.4

@signal furnace

Do you need it?

[signal furnace]

I was hoping there would be on for the eva3 4m1

[regal gorge]

sorry, I did not switch to eva3

[regal gorge]

https://github.com/Stanciu-Andrei/PrinterMods/tree/main

I moved the mods here, it should be easier to maintain and manage

[past frigate]

Has anyone got input shaper graphs before and after this mod?

[dry crest]

before

after

[past frigate]

Thank you, im surprised its not a little better on the Y after, but its a simple enough mod to do, im considering it since I have extra motors...

[dry crest]

check the acceleration 🙂

[past frigate]

Yee I saw the accel, I thought the freq also typically doubles

[hushed marlin]

I'm confused, so the acceleration is less on one axis?

[sharp rover]

Hybrid does a good job of bringing the y axis accels closer to match the x axis. It’s not gonna be perfect but could provide an improvement over stock for sure.

[hushed marlin]

Ahhhh, well I mean it definitely did that

I really want to do the AWD mounts in metal so I can do 8wd mostly in metal

[sharp rover]

That would be awesome. It’s been holding up great on plastic parts so far

[nimble jackal]

you have the printer of my dream lol, that thing looks amazing. EFCF, hybrid, with dry boxes and hydra

[dry crest]

@regal gorge looks like your parts can be printed in SLM aluminum

[regal gorge]

sure, but I am not sure on how the tolerances will be on the parts, and also they are not optimized to use as little material as possible so the cost is a little higher than it could be. If you order them I want to hear all about it, I can also modify the parts if you have any problems with them.

[dry crest]

I just wanted to check it out for now but maybe later I will buy it

I think maybe next month I just spend all my money on the metal hydra

[regal gorge]

I did not try to optimize the parts for slm but I might if the parts are reasonably priced

[dry crest]

OMG they still havent fixed the homing bug

[regal gorge]

On danger klipper calico is this bug a thing?

[dry crest]

no idea

its only happing on the latest update of extended corexy

ugh I cant remember what I did to fix the G28 error

[regal gorge]

I have not experimented with it, I havent had the time to use the printer much if at all

[sharp rover]

I haven’t updated extended corexy

[dry crest]

anyone know if shaketune has added extended corexy?

[sharp rover]

I don’t believe so but I haven’t checked in like a month or two. We just edit the files

[ancient rose]

I just finished setting up my hybrid motors, and the printer homes correctly. But now when I try to run the https://github.com/Anonoei/klipper_auto_speed macro to find my new acceleration and velocities I get the error: Printer must be homed first! Found 1 homed axes. I assume this is related to the fact that we no longer have an X and Y motor configuration and instead have an A B C motor configuration. Is there a workaround for this?

[regal gorge]

You might have to modify the macro, I cant say for sure, I nevere used this macro. Also, can you send some pics and vids of the printer, I want to see how it looks

[ancient rose]

@regal gorge This is my setup. Everything seems to work fine outside the autospeed and some of the klippain scripts.

[ancient rose]

It has not. I did a look at how RatRig does their belt tenioning, and they have something similar to shaketune for adjusting the tension. According to their procedure, you would perform this step before adding the hybrid belts. So it would seem at least for now the recommended method is to disengage the hybrid motors and change the kinematics back to CoreXY to perform the belt tension alignment. On the extended corexy github it has an interesting section about using two endstops on the C axis to help keep the gantry square.

@regal gorge I noticed your AWD motor mounts are setup to double shear the motor shaft. Is there any thoughts on how this can be done with the hybrid motor mounts when going to 8WD?

[regal gorge]

I made double shear mount for hybrid for flight304, but there is no need for them unless you do gt3 belt and high tension

[ancient rose]

I use gt3 2mgt belts, so I would like to try the mount. I figure it covers all the bases.

[sharp rover]

I need to double shear my hybrid as well. I’m running gt2 at 200hz and surprisingly no bent motor shafts yet lmao

[valid hamlet]

@regal gorge I am thinking about using the double ended 42x48 y-motor and shafts that came off my plus to do a horizontal version of you mod. Do you think that stock motor would actually improve y acceleration? Just looking for your feelings on whether it's even worth trying.

[valid hamlet]

@regal gorge Looks pretty goofy

[regal gorge]

No idea, you can try it and see if it does anything

[valid hamlet]

Bro, your step files are f3d files 😭

[regal gorge]

Yeah, it was easier to send that

[ancient rose]

With the hybrid motor mounts installed, my toolhead is confined to just the print bed +- a couple mm (E5+ 377x370 bed). Does anybody have a solution for a nozzle brush that works with this setup?

[regal gorge]

I haven't got around to making a nozzle brush mount yet

[ancient rose]

I mocked this up, should mount under the extrusion next to the rear right hybrid mount and uses a servo to move it up just behind the print bed.

[regal gorge]

be sure to mirror the parts in the slicer for the other side

I made them for a custom 8wd but they should work just fine on the plus

[ancient rose]

Thank you!

[loud spear]

This is what I'm working on. Combined @regal gorge 's front pulley mount with a dropped front cross bar bracket I found. Range of movement might depend somewhat on your toolhead, but clearance was great with just the hybrid setup. Added front AWD motors a couple days ago and now just barely still works after fiddling with things to get the front motor mounts adjusted as far forward as possible (pic below was before switching to shorter 12mm m3 screws and a couple more mm of slack in the belts - not much room for adjustment to tighten belts afterwards so took a few tries to get right)

[regal gorge]

So you are now on 6wd? Did you do a speed test?

I didnt try 6wd. I went from 4wd to 8wd. 4wd got me 1000@70k and 8wd 1000@120k

[loud spear]

Yes, 6wd now. I think my max with the "regular" hybrid setup was 1400@48k (@60V) Haven't tried any speed tests faster than that yet with the extra motors since I've mostly just been playing with belt tensions and input shaper results. I'll let you know when I do though! Next step is to rebuild a version of my klipper config for just traditional coreXY with the AWD motors only so I can run the belt comparison test. The best I've managed to get for Y axis is 7500 for recommended accel and I was hoping for better.

The fun part about this build now though, is I have all 4 AWD motors running off just 2 steppers on the Kraken board, with motors wired in parallel. I've read this is maybe a little risky but seems to be running great so far. Don't know if this will cause any issues when I start testing the limits though. 🙂

[regal gorge]

I wouldn't do that, might risk burining the drivers

[regal gorge]

I got a kraken for x and y and a skr pico for the rest

[loud spear]

I've read back EMF could be an issue with motors wired in parallel, but V1.0 kraken board specs claim 8A max for M1-M4 driver sockets. I do see the v1.1 board released more recently specs only 4.7A max instead, so maybe I'll try not to exceed that. Currently @ 3A run_current which should be like 4.24A max...

[loud spear]

@regal gorge what kind of input shaper results do you get for Y axis on your 8WD setup?

I understand effective belt length is typically the biggest factor so wondering how much more to be gained by the extra motors on the hybrid belts. Without buying another couple motors, I've been thinking about maybe testing the two motors I have both on the same side with just one hybrid belt... Or maybe mismatched motors and try adding a couple old creality motors just to see what it does for the input shaping... I know they wouldn't be up to matching the speed/power of the LDO motors but would probably be fine at low speeds I imagine

[regal gorge]

I had very little time with the printer, I was away from home for months, I went all the way to 8wd for the extra accels, I will need to buy a bigger powersupply to make sure all 8 motors get enough current. after I get home I wish to spend more time tuning it, but I already got 2 new project printers that might eat up some of that time. on my setup all motors are ldo 2504, the awd is on the longer shaft variant for double shear. also I had seen a big gain going from 8wd without autotune to with autotune

I also would like to experiment with going bowden on it, since it would make the whole thing more balanced and lighter

[loud spear]

Preliminary results w/ 6wd LDO 2504ac @60v.... Looks like can run 2200mm/s @ 50k accel without breaking a sweat at a pretty safe 1.4A run_current. Motors should stay pretty cool at that level and could even get rid of all the heatsinks and fans I've added to keep them cool running at 1.7A previously

[loud spear]

1000mm/s @90k. I'll try higher currents later. Thinking 1.4A can get the speed, but not as much torque

[loud spear]

Actually looks like that's about the limit, regardless of how much current on the AWD motors. Seems to still be the Y axis that is the limiting factor for 6wd. Makes sense I suppose. 🙂

[regal gorge]

Thas is most impresive, 2200mm/s is stupid fast, 60v si no joke, what power supply do you use?

[regal gorge]

34$ ???

I am looking for a similar power supply. It seems that they are kind of cheap, meanwell ones are 5 times the price

[iron bluff]

Theres a reason it costs that much

[regal gorge]

i know but still, hard to resist, also I cant find 60v meanwell

[dry crest]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

[regal gorge]

so I found the uhp-1000-48 to be the best choice

it can go to 57V and has plenty of amps

lets see if the rest of the printer doesn't rip its self apart from the forces

[loud spear]

That sounds perfect. Don't know if there's a difference between v1.0 and v1.1 krakens, or if maybe one of my LDO motors has an issue somewhere, or maybe my cheap psu just can't produce stable 60V, but I started getting weird motor short-to-ground errors in klipper when I turned the voltage up any higher than 58V or so. 57V is what my PSU is set at anyway

Had no idea the meanwell PSUs had that much adjustment range. Might need to consider an upgrade myself.

I'll try to keep an eye on the UPS I've got my printer connected to next time and see how many watts it's actually pulling. I'm fairly certain 1000W is way more than necessary, but don't really understand how the math works when it comes to HV stepper drivers that are running high voltage but as I understand it still only pushing low voltage to the motors...?

[regal gorge]

Yes 1000w is not necessary, even the 750w one is plenty, I might just get the lrs 1200 because its cheaper and goes to 56V

[loud spear]

Probably not 100% accurate since the PSU display only updates every second or two, but with 6 motors running that speed test pattern @2000mm/s 261W is the highest power consumption goes, up from what was about 120W without the motors running, so I bet 200W plus whatever comfortable headroom is needed. Maybe add another 15% beyond that to run 8x 2504ac at their max limits. I bet a 350W psu might even be enough. Of course that maybe depends on how accurate this 261W reading is... There's a lot of places my math could break down, but 450W lrs still looks pretty affordable too. What's the difference between the two different series of PSUs?

[regal gorge]

The uhp is fanless, and it has a few more features, but the lrs is cheaper and with a cooling fan

I wanted to get a 600w psu but it doesnt go up over 52V

[loud spear]

Ah. Biggest gripe i have with my cheap psu is that the fan runs non-stop

Everything else but that 60v psu is completely silent when the printer is idle

[regal gorge]

yeah, the lrs is silent until its in need of cooling

also how much current per motor are you running?

[regal gorge]

1.4A or 1.7A for these results?

[loud spear]

1.5A currently, and have backed off to 2000mm/s after a couple layer shifts during prints. Previously was running 1.76A with just 4 motors, but required heatsinks & fans on the motors to keep them from getting too hot.

[regal gorge]

I will get the 500w uhp 55V power supply after all

[regal gorge]

but maybe

nah, 500 is plenty

[loud spear]

Nice. Yeah, you've got me seriously considering that 450W lrs... Didn't think meanwell was even an option when I was originally searching 60v supplies, since didn't know about that wide voltage range.

[regal gorge]

Uhp series hav a 55v option

Also lrs 1200 48 can go to 56V