the full metal gantry has both options for front and top mount, just depends on the XY joints
#Full Metal Gantry
verbal burrow
fleet siren
whats the difference between 6mm and 9mm sheet metal gantry systems, can you get a 6mm kit and use longer standoffs to fit 9mm ?
verbal burrow
No, 9mm uses things like live idlers which afaik changes some plates a bit
fleet siren
do they have to be live idlers?
does the belt tension have to be so high that it hurts the bearings on normal 9mm idlers?
shut pewter
live idler is a big upgrade
fleet siren
why - because it lets you run more belt tension?
fading pine
why - because it lets you run more belt tension?
basically, yes. as opposed to the original merc one design that puts all of the tension on the standard idler pulley, this one spreads the tension out between 2 larger bearings.
as far as I understand it, anyway.
fleet siren
how much belt tension are we talking about?
ocean yoke
how much belt tension are we talking about?
Yes
fleet siren
the more the better???????????????????
verbal burrow
how much belt tension are we talking about?
some people run 300hz on their gt3 9mm setups
I’m personally not going gt3 as it doesn’t really have any benefits for us without also breaking our bearings, gt2 edpm seems like a good middle ground
fleet siren
how about gt1.5 ?
how much do you lose going to gt1.5?
why would it even be weaker, gt is just the tooth profile isnt it?
severe glade
Im running my 9mm gt3 belts at 220hz at the moment
Idk if i wanna go higher
verbal burrow
Im running my 9mm gt3 belts at 220hz at the moment
Idk if i wanna go higher
To match gt2 edpm performance you have to use way more tension on gt3
severe glade
To match gt2 edpm performance you have to use way more tension on gt3
What kinda performance specifically? IS, accuracy, max speed?
verbal burrow
IS, unsure about the rest as I don’t think I’ve seen someone do a head to head test with the exact same hardware
shut pewter
Gt3 is stiffer, so I think the theory is that it requires higher tension to form properly around the idlers at speed?
verbal burrow
severe glade
Ah that makes sense
Wish i knew this before i got gt3 lol
late axle
Wait so it stretches more than gt2 despite the claims of it is supposed to stretch less?
blissful creek
Gt3 is stiffer, so I think the theory is that it requires higher tension to form...
the idea is that the strands inside are the same, so your basically only adding the rubber which does very minimal effect on the entire tensioning/ force transfer. Basically that the strands have to be preloaded more because of the rubber here to be peak perforamnce.
but only 1 person on one gantry setup ive seen try it...
verbal burrow
fading pine
I'm considering going with the A4T for my upcoming build with this gantry, what motor do I use? a standard nema 14 pancake 10 tooth?
delicate river
8t but yeah nema 14
glad gale
When I tune my gt3 belts they are at 298 hrz on a 500 mm span
And a week later they get tightened as the belt stretches
verbal burrow
8t but yeah nema 14
Either would be fine tbf
shut pewter
That's way too much at a 500mm span...
300-330 at 150mm
Not 500
And for the extruder tooth count, I just buy what's convenient from the vendor I order from
severe glade
300 at 500mm would be around 1000 at 150mm, no?
that cant be real xD
glad gale
That's a typo, I meant 150
That's what I get for typing without looking,it's like 85hz at 500
glad gale
Yup, had to file down the spacer but it's holding great
indigo orbit
starting my 370 build wiith 6mm FMG mod and im doing 4th bolt mod aswell have 2 samd down some 5x35 dowelnlins to.fit the bearings
shut pewter
I think it's around $90 without any finishing?
trim gulch
Well that just cheap enough to not care about it hm
shut pewter
If you have patience I also do kits for around $160
With the main hardware, and all the holes finished
lavish sinew
hmm maybe some day I order from you
still imp
TurtleCrawler's kits are quite nice! Highly recommended. He can do some cool laser patterns too if you want.
lavish sinew
the only problem I think is import cost
shut pewter
Yeah import isn't cheap
trim gulch
Yeah import isn't cheap
Sorry just came back, are you Canadian? I'm in the states
shut pewter
Us
verbal burrow
Sorry just came back, are you Canadian? I'm in the states
He’s in the states, goldy is in Europe so US-EU is a concern
shut pewter
Yup
trim gulch
Ah thanks
I just need to accept my corexy project will have to be given up to switch
I've spent a lot of time on it and clearly not as great as zerog
lavish sinew
what tension is best for FMG GT2 belt
verbal burrow
6mm? 9mm? edpm?
lavish sinew
6mm? 9mm? edpm?
6mm
verbal burrow
I tend to use the CroXY calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fT7alw6z3mBWBkmozEQhDM7Rl-N0iJ1WaYI6ABlss9M/edit?gid=727866794#gid=727866794
trim gulch
Dumb idea on belt tention about using a spring to keep the tension constant and predictable, bad idea?
trim gulch
Maybe to tention then secure? Just a thought
shut pewter
I just use the PF makes belt tension tool to set the tension.
or measure it as I adjust
stuck belfry
Maybe to tention then secure? Just a thought
Also no, if the belt lengthens, the spring puts less pre tention on it. The only cheap repeatable equal force pre tention would be using weight or motor torque
lunar saffron
Hey, I can't find the "9mm_Front_Tower_Spacer_x2.stl" file on the github page. Did I miss something ?
verbal burrow
oh wait the spacer, not the insert
shut pewter
Did you go into the metric or imperial files folder
Ohh I just changed the name after I did the guide
It's just front tower insert
lunar saffron
So "Front_Tower_Insert_x2.stl" and "9mm_Front_Tower_Spacer_x2.stl" are the same ?
lunar saffron
np
shut pewter
And I thought I caught all those name updates in the guide
lunar saffron
Also, if I decide to go with front build instead of top one, what kind of toolhead would you recommend ? I have the E34M1 with an ace UHF and an orbiter right now.
shut pewter
I've only run a4t and takeoff
There are a lot of front mount options though
I'm largely limited by the hotends I run, Chube, tricorn, Chube compact
lunar saffron
Is it mandatory to have longer shafts for the motors or it can work with 20mm shafts ?
lunar saffron
which means I would have to buy new motors... 🫠 😭
shut pewter
Upgrades can snowball
stable iris
Are there any 8mm dia. long shaft steppers available in the USA right now? Darned if I can find them. I've got turtle's parts kit sitting here looking at me.
nocturne sluice
+1 to that, since I'm also going to need them. Also, I haven't gotten my kit in yet, but should I be buying new pulleys to go on 8mm shaft steppers?
I assume the answer is "duh" but I've been wrong before
stable iris
Yes all the rotating parts need to be bought
stable iris
I was about to go with the 17HS19-2504S-H-V2 from steppersonline, but shipping doubles the cost. Might have to do it anyway but will search more first.
shut pewter
Filastruder has both 5 and 8mm 2504s, but the 8mm price isn't cheap
They used to be the same price
Other vendors have the 5mm motors
stable iris
Thanks for that. Looks like the 42STH48-2504AC (46mm shaft) would be equivalent(?) Shipped from Ohio is nice, and looks like they have belts and idler stuff too.
shut pewter
I would need to check CAD to see how that fits the 9mm setup
stable iris
Oh that's a 5mm. I need to read up more
shut pewter
That's 9mm with the old rev
Bearing sits up higher with the new Rev, but I don't think you would have full engagement with a 46mm shaft
5mm is also big enough with double shear
verbal burrow
46mm would be 1mm short of full engagement in the double shear bearing, I was looking into it myself
shut pewter
That's not terrible
verbal burrow
At some point I will be trying 5x46mm stepper shafts just to see if theres any noticeable change over 8mm in terms of inertia
stable iris
I'll take another look at 5mm double sheer. I'm not all that clear on what speeds/accels call for 8mm and the super high tension but I'm in all-in mode for this mod right now
verbal burrow
I would imagine the main benefit for 8mm would be if you're running like 9mm GT3 which needs insane tensions, people prefer 9mm gt2 edpm nowaday since it requires way less tension, thats why I think you'd be fine (atleast on paper) with 5mm shafts, not sure if the shafts not having full engagement in the double shear bearings would affect anything noticeably
shut pewter
You can run the numbers using the spreadsheet pinned in here
wintry marsh
OK, I'd ruled out GT3 in favor of GT2 from reading here already, so maybe.
Yeah im still running gt3 but definitely dont do it. Iv gone through so many little toothed idlers.
uneven solar
The FMG front towers are not smaller than the printed parts, right?
shut pewter
Same footprint
vale crane
So I can't use double sheared with ldos37 motors?
broken venture
No, 45mm is the shortest you can go I believe
and thats on 6mm
You have to have 55 or more for 9mm
vale crane
Well then....
severe glade
You have to have 55 or more for 9mm
Im pretty sure my 55mm shafts poke at least 5mm through the dual sheer bearing
So i think 50 is fine too, but thats not a common length afaik
broken venture
50mm doesnt exist
ocean yoke
50mm doesnt exist
If you have an angle grinder...
stable iris
Impatience got the best of me. Got the Filastruder LDO-42STH48-2504AHS8-55 8mm shafts and 9mm EPDM 2GT belts for my Plus. Was waiting for the Classifieds but can't have this parts kit just sitting here on my workbench for another month. 😏 can't wait to start this.
keen horizon
when kits comin out :D?
jagged silo
Are the printed parts for ABS tolerances? Would it be a bad idea to use ABS-GF
severe glade
Are the printed parts for ABS tolerances? Would it be a bad idea to use ABS-GF
yeah they are designed for asa / abs
filled abs is fine too
toxic sapphire
Turtle, are you still selling kits for this?
shut pewter
Yeah just not getting them finished and ready to ship very quick, I have a small backlog in working on
lavish sinew
Yeah just not getting them finished and ready to ship very quick, I have a small...
what parts do you get in the kit?
lavish sinew
oh nice so ready to build 🙂
shut pewter
Yup
I let myself be to critical when it comes to QC, and it really slows down how quickly I finish/ship them
ocean yoke
Plates finished, all the screws and spacers, and some shims
Do you ship to eu? If yes then what will be the price
shut pewter
Import kinda kills it. But I can
I would need to check shipping to EU again, but I think it would be under, but close to $200 shipped?
Might be around $180
ocean yoke
Hopefuly I will find time to start my two mercury's somewhere in the future. I have a set for one on hands for ~year already, but for the second one I might order from you
No promises tho
No idea why I wrote this. Probably coping
vale crane
How much are you charging? I might be interested in a awd full metal gantry 🙂
shut pewter
I do not have AWD and will not cut other mods.
vale crane
Yeah I'm gonna try to cnc my own but if i can get the rest cnced that takes out more than half the work
I just need them in galaxy green 😉
grave bridge
I ordered the metal parts like 1 year ago, do the newer files still work (STL) with the 1 year old DXF parts?
stable iris
Out with the old and in with the new. Always been a function over form person, but these things are freakin' gorgeous.😮
shut pewter
I ordered the metal parts like 1 year ago, do the newer files still work (STL) w...
There is a branch with the old version
The only parts that changed are the stepper towers
grave bridge
There is a branch with the old version
oh ok, what did you change on the 6mm version?
shut pewter
Double shear bearing support
grave bridge
oh ok
grave bridge
Double shear bearing support
so id need a top-plate
mhhh just looked at the docs bottom and middle plate would be needed to be replaced
right?
broken venture
Top would also need to unless you drill out that M3 hole for the 4th bolt mod
shut pewter
Top would also need to unless you drill out that M3 hole for the 4th bolt mod
The files do not have that
Still a drill it out mod
Top just has the nice to have notch
wet robin
@shut pewter is there a tool to setup the right hight for the idler on the steppermotors?
shut pewter
I just eyeball that through the front cutout
broken venture
I buy a size up and just wing it
uneven tendon
Whats the next best thing after Classifieds considering those haven't been in stock in a bit?
verbal burrow
I'd say 2504's
severe glade
Whats the next best thing after Classifieds considering those haven't been in st...
classifieds are only the best under 600mm/s
so they are perfect for big heavy gantries
motors like 2504 have more torque at higher speeds
broken venture
Classifieds love high power and heavy motion, 2504s love lightweight setups
uneven tendon
classifieds are only the best under 600mm/s
so they are perfect for big heavy ga...
I dont often print faster than 250mm/s. Going FMG and SLM Hydra because 1) it looks better 2) chamber temps have lead to a few broken stepper towers
broken venture
Classifieds also need more hardware to run fully
uneven tendon
Have a A4T so alittle lighter
broken venture
They are 3A motors, so you need to supporting drivers too
uneven tendon
Sounds like 2504s are the right choice for me
broken venture
They also want higher voltages
2504s are the most popular
Can also be driven on 2209s
You need 5160s for the classifieds to fully use them
uneven tendon
That was my plan to buy those with the steppers but if 2504s are good with 2209s then I'll save th money
Darn...now i have that money for Aluminum panels...🤣
broken venture
My mini is on 55V classifieds and full metal panels
But it uses a heavy motion for that reason
My red merc is on 2504s with a purpose made LW setup
severe glade
I dont often print faster than 250mm/s. Going FMG and SLM Hydra because 1) it lo...
if you build a nice printer you might as well print fast lol
broken venture
The only thing is if you do order some 2504s, make sure you get 8/55mm shafts
uneven tendon
if you build a nice printer you might as well print fast lol
I mean if this upgrade gets me there then yeah! Right now it doesn't handle that high speeds
Oof those 2504 8/55 are just as hard as the Classifieds to find
broken venture
Yeah, long shaft and dual shear is the new big thing everyone wants
Higher belt tensions
verbal burrow
I'm seeing more of a trend towards 5mm shafts rather than 8mm since people dropped gt3
shut pewter
I dont often print faster than 250mm/s. Going FMG and SLM Hydra because 1) it lo...
Then stick with 2504s and 2209s.
5160s show more vfas at slower speeds. My min speed for quality is 180
rotund oracle
Got an ender 5 plus, plan to mod to a FMG mercury one this year at some point along with a bondtech indx. Already have short shaft stepper online motors and some misc 6mm belt pulleys. Am I going to regret it if I go 6mm belts? Should I just keep the short shaft motors and 6mm pulleys on the shelf and buy the 9mm parts and long shaft motors?
rotund oracle
Also, random question, but has anyone ever tried stacking an idler pulley and a timing pulley on a long shaft motor to simplify the pulley layout? It would be a bit more force on the shaft, a bit more heat into the idler bearing, and the timing pulley would only contact 50% of the belt rather than 75%, but it sure would simplify things, and could shave a few inches off the belt path... something like this, except the belts would just both go around the idler and timing pulley right there:
kind of want to try that in an AWD type setup
3rd question, why not use these instead of modifying an idler for the x joints? https://www.mcmaster.com/3693N12/
broken venture
-
6mm fmg and short shaft motors are fine, but you are limited to 110hz of belt tension, as anything more will damage motor bearings and shafts from deflection. Most people just go with long shaft for both 6 and 9mm setups and run dual shear.
-
I dont see the point of why you would do or even need this.
-
These DO NOT last. We use the live idler setups because they support much bigger and stronger internal bearings. Those use very tiny bearings that CANNOT handle higher tensions or higher speeds. They are what fail the most usually with motion which is why we use the bigger bearings and pulleys on the 9mm X-axis.
This setup has already been thoroughly tested and abused to have the best possible outcome within the ZeroG design
rotund oracle
Appreciate the response @broken venture . Number 2 was really just my mind wandering as it seemed like the simplest belt path
uneven solar
has anyone quoted jlc for fmg parts? They insist on 3d files so i just put together the dxfs from the github and extruded them 3mm but i don't think the system liked that very much, its asking for a manual quote
stuck belfry
has anyone quoted jlc for fmg parts? They insist on 3d files so i just put toget...
No, pcbway and jlc is expensive for laser cutting or 2d cnc. Try to find something local. I used laserteileonline https://laserteileonline.de
verbal burrow
has anyone quoted jlc for fmg parts? They insist on 3d files so i just put toget...
Someone posted this, unsure if it's a full set
And they can definitely do DFX files
uneven solar
There's a bubble that says 7
uneven solar
And they can definitely do DFX files
They should be able to, it's one of the file extensions they support, but it gave me an error asking me to upload a 3d model with the same name
rotund oracle
Any chance someone could export me a step of just the 9mm gantry idler pulley? Solidworks isn't opening it correctly in the full assembly step:
or point me to the CAD elsewhere would work too
rotund oracle
Much obliged, works great, thanks!
rotund oracle
Before I go to the trouble, has anyone already designed a rear facing gantry setup... something roughly like this?
toxic sapphire
Hartk is working on one for a 2.4
rotund oracle
on the voron discord or somewhere else?
rotund oracle
On the BOM here: https://github.com/TurtleCrawler/Mercury-One.1---Full-Metal-Gantry/tree/V2.0/STL Files/9mm_STL_Files/Stepper_Mount_Imperial_STL_Files
It lists 9mm 20t 5mm Bore GT2 Pulley Qty 2. Should that be Qty 4, or is that only for the stepper mount. If that's the case, is there a full BOM for a 9mm build somewhere?
I guess if that was just for the motor mounts, there wouldn't be dowel pins... which also appear to be 2 shy of a full set?
shut pewter
Reference the PDF
Those sub boms only apply to that section, and might be out of date
rotund oracle
Sounds good. Will do, thanks!
wet robin
can i use the vztoolhead with the 9mm version?
broken venture
it will take some modifications to the belt pillars, but it can be done
They are spaced for 6mm
I just swapped them out for 37mm knurled standoffs with a 1mm washer (since they dont make 38mm standoffs) and wrapped the belts around. Not the best nor recommended method, but also works
Proper way is to sand the slits wider
wet robin
i am stuc with the problem of my ender 5 plus that my belt paths are to long and give on the y axis at 37 hz a problem. i have change everything allready but i got steady the same input shaper results so i was thinking if i go to fmg with the 9mm my flex must be gone and because of the 9mm belts the flaps are gone to. but if i need to get new toolhead also then it is a lot of money to put in it and i dont know i i wanna do that and keep it like this and print outerwalls at 50 and acc at 5000 and let it this
broken venture
It varries by printer. Zeus for example got a worse and weird IS after swapping to 9mm
But my mini loved the swap
Could also just be belt cut quality
wet robin
yeah i have change allready to 3 different belts
1 with the fabreeko and 2 times self buying
but the 37hz comes from to much flex on the y axis i cannot find another thing that case the problem
wet robin
@broken venture what shim outer diameter must the m5 shims be? i can get 5 x8x0.5 but i can also 5x10x0.5
wet robin
okey thanks
i have give it a shot to go full metal with the 6mm it cant be gonna worse i hope haha
the shims from fabreeko with the merc one kit are 10 outside @broken venture
broken venture
Those work best for normal flanged bearings
Still prefer 8mm, but 10 is fine for those
Things like the toothed idlers and stuff DO require 8mm, so might as well just get them
wet robin
yeah i only got 0.5 and 0.2 for fast delivery so i can stack them to make 1
broken venture
I use more 0.5 and 0.1 than anything else
0.2 is kinda a weird size
I actually dont think I have a single 0.2 washer being used
broken venture
Do not follow the BOM directly with those
The reason we use multiple sizes is to fill the gap
No ones idler pulleys are the same size
There is no standard with them and they all vary in widths to a point
You are also relying on your spacer prints being the perfect size
Which is almost always NEVER
Its best to just have 0.1 and 0.5, unless you need a 0.2
toxic sapphire
on the voron discord or somewhere else?
Sorry I missed this. It’s on the bondtech discord I believe
lavish sinew
@shut pewter just a question could maybe fysetc make the metal gantry parts for people that just wanna buy it?
shut pewter
They don't even want to make our other parts
shut pewter
They haven't made any more lw gantries in a long time
Beds as well
Mellow is hard to work with from what I've heard, ldo only sells to vendors, not direct
spark gate
Maybe formbot might be worth a shot
jagged silo
Any tips for aligning the Y rails so my gantry is square? It seems like my left rail is binding a bit
severe glade
Any tips for aligning the Y rails so my gantry is square? It seems like my left ...
i think the merc pdf instructions describe very detailed in what order you should tighten it and slide the gantry around to make it smooth
ornate jolt
Alright, after months of personal delays, I have started working on this again for my Nebula. Just swapped out the front and gantry mounts. Next to try and knock out the stepper mounts. Slowly but surely. I’ll finally get to use my HB classifieds as well.
For 6mm belts about what tension are some of you running? This is a pro (not plus) build.
verbal burrow
For 6mm belts about what tension are some of you running? This is a pro (not plu...
Make a copy of this calculator and see what it recommends
ornate jolt
Ummmmmmm any chance you can tell me a decent starting point and I will revisit this later?
astral ore
I’ve been running my 6mm belts between 180-190hz tension
ornate jolt
Dang!
astral ore
That’s with 4th bolt mod
ornate jolt
That is what I went with
verbal burrow
I’ve been running my 6mm belts between 180-190hz tension
I run 9mm gt2 epdm at like 230hz lmao
wet robin
@shut pewter do i need to do the longer shaft motor? or can i use the fabreeko motors i am on the normal 6mm belts. with the full metal set now.
severe glade
if you want double sheer support you need long shaft motors
astral ore
you can use a shorter shaft motor, but you won't be able to tension higher than 110-120hz
ornate jolt
Higher tension usually allows for higher acceleration values
I was wondering about trying to use live idler with the 6 mm belts.. I think that is what turtle and some of you were saying is the week spot for the 6 mm belts. But if you incorporated a live idler, could you do GT3 belts? Would there be much benefit?
verbal burrow
GT3 belts aren't great for our usecase anyway, most people are staying away from them now due to them being bearing eaters
they need much higher tensions to even perform the same as gt2/epdm, and even higher to outperform
i think the issue with live idlers on 6mm is space constraints?
astral ore
could possibly do it with those toothed idlers that have grub screws. There's not enough space to do it with dehubbed pulleys.
ornate jolt
Interesting. What are the differences between using epdm and gt2 or are they the same?
verbal burrow
GT2 EPDM has a higher temp rating, and generally seems to outperform regular GT2 belts
ocean yoke
1.5mm gt3 9mm wide when
minor herald
Will be awhile before I can get this done, but collecting everything now.
uneven tendon
Given the 2504s with 8mm shaft haven't come back in stock, what are people's opinions on the Krakens from West3d? Im assuming similar to Classifieds (which appear to be open for preorder) and paired with 5160s?
broken venture
Krakens have bad QC with them and also probably the worst performing of the 3
They also dont sell krakens in long shaft unless you buy all 4 of them, which is pretty messed up
Classifieds are strong monsters. Love throwing a decent amount of weight around
But with the updated plates, you can get 5mm 2504 long shafts and have it work, just an easy bearing swap
You arnt restricted to 8mm shafts anymore
I know, I killed 2 krakens doing speed runs, badly built product
uneven tendon
But with the updated plates, you can get 5mm 2504 long shafts and have it work, ...
Even with 9mm belts?
broken venture
As long as its supported by dual shear, it doesnt matter
We recommended 8mm for those without it
8mm doesnt flex nearly as bad without that extra bearing
uneven tendon
Hmm, ok. I really don't need/want classified. I already have issues printing ABS too quickly and it curling.
broken venture
5mm shafts seems to be the trend all high performance machines are moving toward, 8mm is being phased out
Thats not speed, that evironmental temp or air flow
ASA/ABS flows
uneven tendon
65c and curls only on short layers. Surprisingly need high fan speeds. Ill rerun through tuning flows and everything again though...don't want to get to far off topic
broken venture
Printing too cold can cause it to have a rubber band consistency, which causes it to pull up going around corners
uneven tendon
Printing too cold can cause it to have a rubber band consistency, which causes i...
Oh sheesh sounds exactly like the problem im having
broken venture
What temp you printing with?
uneven tendon
265 HE 110 Bed
broken venture
Thats pretty fine, about what im doing
But im also on takeoff, so stupid overkill cooling
uneven tendon
Do 5160s need 48v?
broken venture
Depends on the motor you pick, some love higher voltages, some want a fck ton of low current
Classifieds / 2504s like higher voltages
But ones like 2804s and stuff want as much 24V as you can send them
uneven tendon
Dang, I don't got room for a 48v psu 🤣
broken venture
I run my classifieds and 2504s on 55V ( Highly not recommended)
Start at 48V if thats the path you take
But I always tell people to max out your system on 24V before swapping to 48V. Verify everything is working correctly incase it does reduce performance and you dont know
uneven tendon
So 2804s would probably be better option that 2504s if staying at 24v?
uneven tendon
Those seemed easier to find actually
uneven tendon
Well now im thoroughly convinced....that i still have no idea which way I want to go 🤣
broken venture
2504s are the best performer out of any of them at any voltage
Just get the 5mm long shaft and gen2 metal plates and you'll be a very happy camper
Or wait for classifieds if you believe you have a heavier than normal motion
uneven tendon
Already got the plates, and all metal hydra parts. Just need to sand them and get them all anodized
shut pewter
5mm shafts are all you need with double shear
broken venture
Yup, 8mm is kinda not needed anymore XD
shut pewter
8mm is cool, safety in redundant overkill
shut pewter
When 8 is an option I go for that, but it's not a deal breaker.
uneven tendon
Alright alright...so...new 24v Nd 48v psus, 5160s, and classified, full Neb rebuild. Great plan thanks for the help guys 🤣
Just got my CNC router working so I can cut my own Aluminum panels as well 🤔
uneven solar
how much does the hardware cost nowadays, besides the lasercut plates
i'm in europe but i'd probably go through aliexpress first
oh nevermind there's an aliexpress bom on the github, that's nice
Not sure if i selected all the correct stuff but it seems to come up to 35-40 bucks + shipping
jagged silo
I spent around $50 on hardware and bearings, $60 on new steppers with long shafts, $20 on belts
uneven solar
yeah im not sure if i'm doing dual shear
verbal burrow
yeah im not sure if i'm doing dual shear
Its nice to be able to get the extra performance out of FMG, otherwise its mainly temp resistance and coolness factor you’re getting
Just requires long enough motors which can be had for relatively cheap, and 2 bearings (and new pulleys potentially)
uneven solar
Its nice to be able to get the extra performance out of FMG, otherwise its mainl...
im not sure if its worth it, maurice isn't very fast and i've given up of my expectations from it. + i have LDO2504s, unless i put another printer on the pipeline they're gonna be wasted
shut pewter
I ran printed parts for years without issues, many have
severe glade
im not sure if its worth it, maurice isn't very fast and i've given up of my exp...
Why isnt he fast?
Just make him fast lol
uneven solar
Why isnt he fast?
Just make him fast lol
cooling limited, and i'm not sure if i'm ever doing cpap/some other solution
limpid yarrow
Is there a full metal AWD mod out there? I saw Stancius's. Does it work with 450mm rails?
verbal burrow
Is there a full metal AWD mod out there? I saw Stancius's. Does it work with 450...
Might be better to ask in Stancius thread about it, this is for the standard FMG setup
https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1260208718172258346
lavish sinew
Well this is interesting the hole is smaller
shut pewter
Old vs new version? Smaller bearing
lavish sinew
yeah the red one is old
shut pewter
More common bearing spec now
lavish sinew
damn I thought I could use my old bearing
do we still have files for the older version?
verbal burrow
yea just change the version in the github repo
you're on v2 if you got the new files, change it to main
lavish sinew
thx
verbal burrow
Need a 5mm bearing for the max motors
I got some NSK 635ZZ’s
wet robin
what hz do you have your 6mm belts with this setup?
verbal burrow
make a copy of this sheet to figure out, start at a registration drive factor of 1.5, once you've filled in the other info of your setup
shut pewter
Depends if you have double sheer or 8mm shafts
If you do not have either, then you are stuck around 120-130
wet robin
i have dubbel sheer and 5mm shaft
lavish sinew
i have dubbel sheer and 5mm shaft
I have double shear 8mm shaft 🙂
verbal burrow
I also run double shear 8mm, but double sheer 5mm is plenty even for 9mm gt2 epdm
wet robin
i am now testing with 140hz if my shaper is better
verbal burrow
i up my belt tension until i stop seeing IS improvements
wet robin
i am now checking my belts with the shake and tune belt comparis or must i skip that?
verbal burrow
the belt comparison has had mixed results for me
broken venture
Only use it as reassurance
verbal burrow
sometimes it says im bang on, sometimes it says 60% similarity while i can measure both belts being the same tension, without any racking
broken venture
My last run was 99.8, Ill take it
verbal burrow
yeah i cared about it until i saw how weird it was acting
wet robin
hahaha to bad you dont go to the 100
verbal burrow
one run it was 78 the other it was 99
broken venture
Zeus's last run when I swapped my LW extrusion out for the standard 2020
I think thats acceptable
Pure green XD
But I can see my left belt has a bit more stretch to it than the right
wet robin
my shape is all over the place
i got the ender plus
the biggest problem is my y axis
i got this peak on the normal merc mod also. i dont know what this can be i have done new motors ldo. fmg higher belts new mgh rails so it is smooth as butter i dont know what i can do to change this only to trow it out the window 😅
verbal burrow
isn't 120-125 usually toolhead stuff? check out Reth on youtube, he has a few videos going over interpreting IS graphs
lavish sinew
increase your APH
wet robin
aph?
verbal burrow
accel per hz
verbal burrow
i think i gonna trow it out of the window
Did you check some reth videos like I suggested to help interpret the graphs and figure out where the issue originates?
wet robin
i am now checking
wet robin
i have read it and fixed things but i still got on my y axis my main peak at 40 hz or something and i cannot get that higher no matter what i do
shut pewter
Plus?
queen pagoda
@shut pewter Do you have any 9mm kits, and if so, what is the price shipping to the US?
shut pewter
Currently working on getting 4 more sets finished to send out, and I need to order some more plates and maybe hardware soon
I'm not fast at getting them done, but if you're fine with waiting they are around $170 shipped. Laser engraving adds a little to that
queen pagoda
Currently working on getting 4 more sets finished to send out, and I need to ord...
That's fine. I'll send you a DM on here.
signal cypress
Currently working on getting 4 more sets finished to send out, and I need to ord...
Id also be interested, would you be able to make a 9mm AWD kit?
verbal burrow
Id also be interested, would you be able to make a 9mm AWD kit?
FMG does not have an official AWD variant, there's a community mod for it, i doubt turtle does kits for those
signal cypress
FMG does not have an official AWD variant, there's a community mod for it, i dou...
It's technically just two more sets of plates instead of idlers from what I've read
shut pewter
I only support the parts I've designed
signal cypress
I only support the parts I've designed
Ah got ya thats fair
How fast could one reasonable push with just the standard FMG and Stepservos you think?
verbal burrow
I’ve had mine moving at 1000@50k, not printing though 😅 also just 2wd steppers
shut pewter
I've done a few speed benchies, but don't push as hard. Have a sub 7 run
Had room to go faster
That's just 2504s at 2a, 48v
verbal burrow
I’m trying a few different toolheads to play with my IS graphs, but overall clean looking aswell
signal cypress
Got you
shut pewter
I have a loose idea for a front motor mount, but needs a lot of cad.
I hate moving motor mounts, very lazy design approach in my opinion.
Moving the motor can be okay, but not great with double shear setups.
So I am looking at other ways to tension the belt, and a better layout to minimize travel lose
shut pewter
Both top mount and front mount are supported
As well as 6mm and 9mm, just 4 different x joint files
The GitHub covers the options
signal cypress
Okay thanks
wet robin
and i think because it is a plus i cannot get rid of that problem. i got the same is graphs with the normal build and the fmg build. so i think its a plus problem
x is clean and 13.000 y is 4800 because i got my peak at 35hz
wet robin
yeah i have allready put metal plates on the joints and stuff but i still have the problem. so maybe gonna sell it i dont wanna limited by 4800
shut pewter
I don't follow those limits
wet robin
so you say just put it to 15000 or something and check how its printed?
just a random number
shut pewter
I tend to stay around 10, but yeah
Most prints, setting it higher doesn't reduce print time that much.
Like if it's a 4 hour print, and changing some settings only cuts 10 minutes, it's not worth it to me.
wet robin
thats true but now its like 2 hours on my merc and 45 min on the bambulab thats a huge differens
and i know i cannot fully compare them but the difference is very high
shut pewter
But yeah those accels are just a recommendation but not any real limit
limpid yarrow
Im doing FMG AWD mod, for the filament around the metal motor mounts, do I need reinforced ABS/ASA or am i good with stock
shut pewter
My infill I always set higher as well
limpid yarrow
also enclosed
limpid yarrow
Word. Thanks. Want to do Flashforges ASA burnt ti so I was about to be sad LOL
Water jetting mine. We will see if they are remotely in tolerance of usability
shut pewter
The printed parts are not structural for fmg other than the front idler having the heatset insert
limpid yarrow
copy
shut pewter
Those are thick tabs
limpid yarrow
I have a dumb ass buddy doing it for free so I cant bitch about it LOL
severe glade
and i think because it is a plus i cannot get rid of that problem. i got the sam...
its not a plus problem in general, my old frame had a decent y graph
nebula with structural panels is obviously a lot better now with a real clean graph
wet robin
my graph is clean but it is on 35hz thats my problem for input shape and recommend 4800 acceleration
severe glade
my graph is clean but it is on 35hz thats my problem for input shape and recomme...
whats your belt tension? i think thats one of the main factors for the peak frequency
stable iris
and i think because it is a plus i cannot get rid of that problem. i got the sam...
I'm still on a stock plus frame and get 7600 @ 1% @ 50hz shaping on Y. I use 7600 for outer walls, 15000 for top/bottom/inner and 50000 everywhere else with 9mm FMG. Large diagonal 2020 braces on left and right sides can get rid of some of that low freq flex. Still doing panels soon though. Don't throw it away just yet! 😀
vestal kraken
Where did you find the cnc toolhead zerog model can you share the links to the .step file ?
verbal burrow
There is no CAD for it publicly available
vestal kraken
There is no CAD for it publicly available
Yes that's what I thought because I saw the cad cnc zerog I was surprised I thought it might exist
jovial isle
Where did you find the cnc toolhead zerog model can you share the links to the ....
Yea, sorry I cannot share it.
vestal kraken
Yea, sorry I cannot share it.
No don't worry you didn't apologize Who can have it only the designer or the people of the company too?
jovial isle
That is for the VZ team to decide I imagine. I was given access with the express note not to share it. Obviously Mellow has something as they produce the parts. Beyond that I'm no one to say.
verbal burrow
Yeah it's a highly sought after thing in here 😂
vestal kraken
Haha yeah on the github vz we can find cnc vz .step but it's not the zerog version
Do you know what is the difference between these two versions apart the positioning of the belt as well as the logo the dimensions are different in height and but are they in width??
vestal kraken
yes it's true in addition the zerog version is successful
vestal kraken
I'm already a fan of the full metal grantry set I think your version the MandicReally with goliath mount on cnc toolhead is just perfect
wet robin
whats your belt tension? i think thats one of the main factors for the peak freq...
I have test high and low tension and I got almost the same graphics. It’s a clean leak but on 35/40hz instead of the 60/70 hz I got on the x. First I tought it was because the printed parts but with the full metal and dual shear I hoped it was gone but it’s doesn’t change. And I am now on the point want I put more money in it
stuck belfry
I have test high and low tension and I got almost the same graphics. It’s a clea...
Are you sure it's not toolhead related, like toolhead wobble?
wet robin
Are you sure it's not toolhead related, like toolhead wobble?
i have tested the vz toolhead metal one and the eva toolhead printed one.
stuck belfry
i have tested the vz toolhead metal one and the eva toolhead printed one.
Okay, if it is from the toolhead, that should at least be a different result
keen horizon
is the 9mm front and top mount the same? comparing the cad i dont see the diffrence
verbal burrow
is the 9mm front and top mount the same? comparing the cad i dont see the diffre...
XY joints are different
nocturne sluice
Posting here since its basically for FMG: I've read a couple of times about people using oversized hardware to better allow the belts to "settle" into place, would that mean something like buying a 12mm pulley? I'm figuring out what I want to be getting and replacing coming up for my install.
verbal burrow
yeah sure you can use a pulley for 12mm belts on your steppers
nocturne sluice
kb3d has them, I'd basically get 4 and de-hub 2 if I'm reading this right
verbal burrow
Oh you want to use them for your XY joints?
nocturne sluice
is there a reason not to?
its not that expensive to get both 9mm and 12mm pulleys to dehub and check out
verbal burrow
Haven't looked at it in cad, I know the grubscrews of a 9mm pulley are gonna interfere with belts, so if the 12 sits further up, then surely the flange would hit against?
nocturne sluice
....if these can be dehubbed actually
verbal burrow
That's why we file grubscrews down to 2.5mm, so they don't slash the belts
nocturne sluice
oh no im an idiot i cant just buy 4
I'd be getting 8mm bore for the steppers LOL
nocturne sluice
That's why we file grubscrews down to 2.5mm, so they don't slash the belts
This is good info that I would have forgotten about
Thanks'
nocturne sluice
So, I gotta make sure its not rubbing on the bottom edge otherwise I have issues with how I built my stuff out
shut pewter
They cannot run on the center, so 10mm belts are also probably a bad idea
nocturne sluice
9mm belt + 12mm pulley on stepper still fine? With 9mm dehubbed pulley on xjoint
verbal burrow
9mm belt + 12mm pulley on stepper still fine? With 9mm dehubbed pulley on xjoint
Yea on steppers feel free
nocturne sluice
I'll need to find 695RS and 698RS bearings next and I think that'll be it aside from waiting for my classifieds
shut pewter
I get most of my bearings from Amazon
nocturne sluice
one final use for my amazon prime
shut pewter
I tried going without prime, lasted about 2 months, maybe 3
blissful creek
Posting here since its basically for FMG: I've read a couple of times about peop...
9mm pulleys are extra big since for 10mm Belts
keen horizon
XY joints are different
i dont see it, and i been trying
severe glade
i dont see it, and i been trying
Front mount x joints are a bit longer
The belts are moved further away from the extrusion so the linear rail can fit in between
shut pewter
i dont see it, and i been trying
Right side is front mount, I can see the gap behind the flange stack
limpid yarrow
are all the standoffs/spacers threaded?
I feel like a dumb ass asking but I think I’m not interpreting the BOM correctly, not sure which ones are threaded
shut pewter
Standoffs are threaded, spacers are not
limpid yarrow
Copy
keen horizon
the cad shows both as 52.39, so maybe the cads incorrect?
i double checked the model, and it they come off as the same, probably just an upload /naming slip. id post phhotos of the 2 models oveerlayed, but dont wanna get timed out again
front mount is indeed 55ish mm vs the 52mm for top.
thankss
queen pagoda
@shut pewter Sent you a DM to get on the 9mm kit list.
shut pewter
<@297139232533774338> Sent you a DM to get on the 9mm kit list.
I don't see one from you?
lavish sinew
oo do I need to DM turtle about the 9mm kit?
shut pewter
You did mention that you were going to, but never did 😂
lavish sinew
first I need to try to fix my printer before I waste more money 🙂
verbal burrow
first I need to try to fix my printer before I waste more money 🙂
yea we went over your issue last night since fishy and slimohan also see it, so happens on both 6 and 9mm, etc etc, scroll up in general chat if you wanna catch up
mental copper
Hey there can the All Metal CNC ZeroG Toolhead that is sold by Mellow be used with 9mm Belts ?
severe glade
Hey there can the All Metal CNC ZeroG Toolhead that is sold by Mellow be used w...
The standard front post slots arent long enough for 9mm
We usually swap those out for threaded alu standoffs
Then just wrap the belt around that and use 9mm belt clips
mental copper
Ahh nice, alignment works fine with it then ? I Plan to Repurpose most of the Electronics of my old e34m1 for it.
severe glade
You need to slide the belts up and down to the right height
But it works fine
verbal burrow
Could probably make a printed jig that snaps over the x beam to align the belts properly
severe glade
Yes
mental copper
Hmm could the slots in the standard part be cnc'ed to fit 9mm or would they be too close together then i wonder
Ill see when it arrives lol, but thx for the input
verbal burrow
The stock posts are already pretty flimsy as is
verbal burrow
mental copper
Damn yeah that does look a lit flimsy
mental copper
I am currently in the middle of building the FMG for my Merc and still have to order the Aluminium Plates, would you guys recommend a front mount over a top one for any reason, i did run an e31m1 with an UHF Hotend before but idk maybe there are reasons for goiing with a front mounted one ?
broken venture
That is toolhead dependent. If your rail sits at the front of the extrusion, then you use front mount. Top rail is top mount.
mental copper
I mean Yeah but at this point i could do both maybe even use another toolhead, the e34 would be top mounted ofc, but maybe you guys would recommend another toolhead lol
Just asking if Top vs Front has any benefits beside the Toolhead
shut pewter
Front Mount toolheads can have a better center of mass relative to the rail
verbal burrow
^ I run, and prefer front mount
shut pewter
But not all are designed with COM in mind
mental copper
Which Front Mounted Toolheads do you guys run for example ?
verbal burrow
Currently Archetype breakneck, next up is Sphinx, a few people run Takeoff
mental copper
Check thx for the Input, i was also eyeing the Bondtech INDX cause ill have Tons of Space for Mounting Hotends in the Front that one also is Front Mounted i thin
shut pewter
Front Mount has a lot more options
mental copper
Then Front mounted it is at this point ill have rebuild everything haha
mental copper
The Sphinx Toolhead doesnt have Orbiter 2 Support currently right ? Might have to CAD something for it then
verbal burrow
The Orbiter has weird COM since the motor is offset to the side, I think some of the older versions do have support for it, but I doubt new ones do
lunar saffron
Hey,
Would you guys recommend any specific motors to use for the FMG build ? And where to find them in Europe? Thx !
mental copper
I think you only need long enough motor shafts (if you want to go dual shear) , and chosse between 8mm and 5mm Shaft, besides it depends on your needs, ill probably use Kraken V2 as these are available in Germany
Besides that i know that classifieds are a often recommended option but those are hard to get in europe / you have to pay import and shipping when getting them
lunar saffron
I know I need long shaft motors but don't know what exactly to choose and where to order that's why I'm asking.
mental copper
i have been running 2504 Steppers for like 2 years they worked really well at 24V with 30k accel and 500ms printing speed, now im going FMG and will be running Kraken V2s, but as i havent tested those yet i cannot give a recommendation if they are any good lol, also i will be running them at 55V
lunar saffron
Kraken are really pricey from what I've seen 😅
And I can't find them in 55mm shaft
verbal burrow
Kraken are really pricey from what I've seen 😅
Krakens also tend to die fast
I wouldn’t recommend them personally,
IMO classifieds, LDO 2504’s S8 55 or S5 55, or max motors
lunar saffron
Max motors are pre-order rn ?
verbal burrow
Max motors are pre-order rn ?
Yea
indigo orbit
i ha e tbe s5 55 ldos im using for my nebula build
verbal burrow
I use 2504’s s8 55 for now, but have some max motors on order
lavish sinew
maybe a possibility but maybe fabreeko can make FMG kits?
indigo orbit
idk
broken venture
i have been running 2504 Steppers for like 2 years they worked really well at 2...
LOL, be prepared for the worst customer service you have ever had
I will never buy another kraken motor product again
mental copper
Haha ill tell you how it goes lol
In any case i still have the 2504s if it doesnt work out
broken venture
You dont have to, I killed 2 motors from use under the limits and got told it was my fault
Now I have 2 seized motors and no help
Have fun
mental copper
Well thats stupid lul
broken venture
They sell untested products and put the blame on the consumer
Anything with a devil design logo is a immediate no
mental copper
I mean at least here in Germany i can give zero fucks they have to honor the 2 Year Warrenty else there fucked so im not too worried if they blow up xD
broken venture
Warranty doesnt mean anything when they dont uphold it
Just more buzz words to get you to buy
Mine got denied from normal use
But if you want to risk it, have fun
mental copper
Yeah thats not ok
shut pewter
Warranty doesnt mean anything when they dont uphold it
Some EU countries have better protections allowing you to file a charge back if they fail to uphold a warranty or fix a product.
Dutch had to do that with his flsun delta that never worked as advertised.
broken venture
Sounds nice
I guess yeah, location and reseller may very
I did direct and yeah, that all happened XD
shut pewter
I did direct and yeah, that all happened XD
Just EU purchase protection laws. Even if you buy direct you can have your bank do a charge back. You just need to send them copies of your emails with dates stating how it doesn't work as advertised, and they then have a set period of time in which they must repair it replace it.
Still takes effort, so might not be worth it on smaller items
queen pagoda
I don't see one from you?
We're not friends, so it may have gone into your spam
lunar saffron
What is the difference between these ?
and are M3x30 standoff and M5x40 spacers the same thing (except diameter and length) ?
hoary plover
I'm not an expert on the FMG - though i do have one - Spacers are hollow, no threads, you can put a screw all the way through - Standoffs have threads, you can screw in two different screws from either end. Or swap that i forget which way it goes.
lunar saffron
Also I can't find that
hoary plover
standard pulley - you can pull the hubs off they are friction fit
shut pewter
Use the updated repo and the PDF guide
lunar saffron
I have the pdf guide but i'm not sure what everything is and some link on the github are dead
Still struggling to find the dowel pins, and not sure what this de-hubbed pulley mean
also 635RS / 698RS depend of the motor diamater ?
indigo orbit
there is a jig u print and u put the pulley in there and it removers the outside ring off the pulley
lunar saffron
shut pewter
Ali links are terrible
lunar saffron
I'm sorry for that
shut pewter
They break to often
indigo orbit
if you have ever build a voron 2.4 z stepper motor assemybly they use an 80 tooth printed gear with a de hubbed pulleybin it to conect it together
lunar saffron
never built a voron :/
shut pewter
The guide shows how to make the dehubbed pulley
lunar saffron
yeah I've seen it, my question is not how to do it, but which pulley should I take ? Could I just take the same 4 time ?
Because on the PDF guide they do not look the same
shut pewter
4 pulleys to create 2 dehubbed pulleys
lunar saffron
ok perfect !
lunar saffron
That's what confused me
shut pewter
Some vendors do sell them
lunar saffron
anyway, might be a bit stupid
shut pewter
But not many
lunar saffron
By any chance do you have any link for the dowel pins and the M5x40 spacer ?
shut pewter
Pins should be easy to find
Currently on my lunch break, don't have time to find links
lunar saffron
ok no problem
shut pewter
They are only available in red black and silver though
I've never had issues finding them on Ali using their search. Just not a lot of options
lunar saffron
also 635RS / 698RS depend of the motor diamater ?
Motors axle diameter ?
lunar saffron
hooooooo
shut pewter
35 is more common, 36 is a better fit
lunar saffron
okayyyyy
then I think it's ok I have everything if the spacer I sent above are good
shut pewter
Yup
lunar saffron
Perfect thank you so much !!
lunar saffron
Is 5m of belts enough for an e5+ ?
severe glade
Is 5m of belts enough for an e5+ ?
yup, but its close
lunar saffron
Do you recommend to use any soecific type of aluminium for the laser cutted parts ?
verbal burrow
Some people use 5052 series, some use 6061, some use 7075
there's not a specific requirement that you HAVE to use one type, I went 7075
hoary plover
i have 6061 on my current one and plan to order 7075 for the cantilever we are building.
generically where are you located chababax?
lunar saffron
Only 5754 is available on laser boost
verbal burrow
xometry.eu / jlccnc are also options, though 5754 is fine aswell i imagine
just check whats cheapest for you
lunar saffron
Where did you ordered ?
verbal burrow
I got mine from JLCCNC, but mine were CNC machined, not lasercut
So probably the most expensive option possible lol
ocean yoke
xometry are very expensive more than 300€ for the parts
It might be 300 for one set and 310 for two and 500 for 20 sets or something along that
verbal burrow
yeah xometry bulk prices are crazy, while single ones are expensive
though sometimes you get lucky, 3 sidepanels for me was $205
lunar saffron
It might be 300 for one set and 310 for two and 500 for 20 sets or something alo...
which is kind of absurd according to me cause as this is the same material for every parts they could just do it in the same sheet of aluminium, the amount of each part doesn't matter
ocean yoke
xometry is not a manufacturer, they just find you one
lunar saffron
mmmmh
okay
anyway I know someone that could probably do it for me and it must be cheaper so I'll see
ocean yoke
anyway I know someone that could probably do it for me and it must be cheaper so...
And thats completely fine mate
severe glade
xometry are very expensive more than 300€ for the parts
i minmaxxed the price for my parts on xometry xD
put all the parts in one file and then bought that twice
they complained about it but made it in the end lol
idk if they changed the price scaling but for a while any part with 2 pieces was only 1€ more than 1 piece
this was 7075 anodized in black
verbal burrow
i paid like 250eur for my set, 7075 anodized black, since mine was machined instead of lasercut
lunar saffron
Amazing advice here 😂😂
indigo orbit
i used send cut send for my FMG, and my z stepper mounts only the stepper mounts i was able to get powder coated black and rest of parts tumbled finish..if i would order another set ill do the machining then have them powder coated localy
lunar saffron
i used send cut send for my FMG, and my z stepper mounts only the stepper mounts...
I'm from France and SCS the shipping is really pricey
nocturne sluice
Isn't SCS based in USA? that'll put a damper in trying to get them
lunar saffron
I think so
lunar saffron
i minmaxxed the price for my parts on xometry xD
put all the parts in one file a...
How did you assemble all the dxf in one file ?
severe glade
uhhh
i dont remember, either autodesk inventor or whatever the autodesk 2d cad is called
lunar saffron
well that's much better
lunar saffron
uhhh
i dont remember, either autodesk inventor or whatever the autodesk 2d cad i...
Thank you so much !!
severe glade
hahaha nice
severe glade
Thank you so much !!
the xometry quoting engine is so wonky xD
i love messing with it
lavish sinew
is it normal to have space between teeth idler and printed part?
astral ore
You mean after shimming you still have a gap?
lavish sinew
You mean after shimming you still have a gap?
yep
astral ore
Add another shim. You don’t want it tight against the spacer where it would bind, but you don’t want the idler to be able to move up and down
lavish sinew
might have to use 0.5 shims
astral ore
Can reprint the spacers too. Sounds like you had some shrinkage
lavish sinew
Can reprint the spacers too. Sounds like you had some shrinkage
I have the same size of the Z
astral ore
Well then it’s not that. Guess it’s the idler
lavish sinew
okay apparently I have 0.5mm space left
limpid yarrow
What size are the shims, M5X7
lavish sinew
M5X7X0.2
indigo orbit
u can get .05mm shims
lavish sinew
shall I print bigger spacers or put different shims
verbal burrow
probably just whatever's easiest
indigo orbit
i would just use the .05 shims therr
there
all i did cause the build guide recomended certian shims in certian placea.
full island
Hey guys this mod looks amazing and I wanted to jump on board and convert my mercury one hydra (based on ender 5 plus) with eva34m1 (orbiter 2.5 + rapido 2 hf + ebb36 + btt eddy) toolhead, after reading around on discord I think the best combo would be a full metal gantry 9mm belt system with front mount + awd full metal.
3 question:
1 has anyone done this and what were the results
2 what kind of gantry are you using? carbon tube, v-slot, steel?
3 what toolhead are you using or you would recommend given the front mount I assume some thing from the voron ecosystem would be ideal, no?
verbal burrow
For the AWD version you might want to check out the https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1260208718172258346 thread, since this is for the standard design made by Turtle
full island
For the AWD version you might want to check out the https://discord.com/channels...
This mod from Turtle with the front mounted design makes the most impact on the toolhead choice that's why I thought it would be best to ask here.
verbal burrow
I run standard FMG, and front mounted toolhead, on a 255
I'm using a generic 2020 extrusion for now (2mm wall carbon tube eventually), and I'm running archetype breakneck for now, will be swapping to sphinx, anything compatible with the standard voron path will also fit us when running front mount
full island
Thank you that helps, do you plan to use a cpap system or regular fans for the sphinx?
verbal burrow
Sphinx only supports CPAP afaik
full island
Have you built your own or did you buy some off the shelf item or kit?
verbal burrow
I bought a WS9290, most people use a WS7040, which mellow and BTT sells as 'Turbo kits'
full island
does it pull the air from inside the enclosure or from outside, I haven't really thougth of cpap until now, but it makes sense if I aim a high performance build to consider cooling as well
verbal burrow
Mine pulls from inside the chamber
full island
how quiet is that WS9290, from what I've read it hits 80-85dB
verbal burrow
Quieter than the WS7040, and a lower pitch
uneven tendon
How smooth/shiny are people's getting their parts before getting them anodized?
indigo orbit
i vot mind tumbled
uneven tendon
Im hand wet sanding 😆 ill see if the shop will prep them too
To clarify, parts are pretty rough:
lunar saffron
the xometry quoting engine is so wonky xD
i love messing with it
Xometry is asking me for an SH code, what should I answer ?
severe glade
Xometry is asking me for an SH code, what should I answer ?
I have no idea what sh code is
Did they give any context?
verbal burrow
It's product code, probably HS
lunar saffron
It's for the customs fee
verbal burrow
I just press other and then describe the item
lunar saffron
Ok
severe glade
Oh the product type
Ye idk they never have the right categories
I either choose other or something like bracket lol
stuck belfry
Wrong category can make you pay more taxes or requiring to answer funny questions before delivery
ocean yoke
What factory xometry connected you with? It is outside of EU, I suppose, if they ask questions like this
severe glade
I dont think they tell you the manufacturing company
ocean yoke
One can deduct it :)
shut pewter
Not really, mine had a shipping label from a xometry location
stuck belfry
This hs code worked fine for me
84859090900
lunar saffron
What factory xometry connected you with? It is outside of EU, I suppose, if they...
Mine apparently comes from china 🤷♂️
ocean yoke
Mine apparently comes from china 🤷♂️
You havent authenticated thats why
shut pewter
The default option is China, local options so cost more, but then you know you will not have import fees.
crystal obsidian
Do the parts need to be countersunk? It looks like they don't right?
indigo orbit
most of them do need counter sunk
crystal obsidian
Damn that's rough, guess I'll see if I can manage to mod them then
indigo orbit
if u open the pdf guide it tells u what parts do and dont need them
crystal obsidian
Yeah I hope it's not too complicated to do at home
indigo orbit
its mainly the top and bottom of the motor mounts x joints and the tentioners
crystal obsidian
My parts already finished at the shop 
indigo orbit
its not i didnwith a counter sink bit and a drill
crystal obsidian
I have both of that in my toolkit so I guess I'll be fine then
indigo orbit
yea and just use an m3 tappered bolt to check there deep enough
verbal burrow
Yeah I hope it's not too complicated to do at home
drill and a countersinking bit
ah viper beat me to it 
crystal obsidian
Got sniped haha
indigo orbit
yep
verbal burrow
its nice mine came chamfered and countersunk
indigo orbit
mine came tumbled and that was about it
now my z stepper mounts those came bent and powder coated a matt black
verbal burrow
i painted my z stepper mount
indigo orbit
i wwnt with powder coat to blend themnin with the black asa
indigo orbit
okay
shut pewter
The top xjoint holes and top front towers do not need to be countersunk to work
The bottom plate holes do though
indigo orbit
yea and what about where the x joint attaches to the rail
shut pewter
Those need to be countersunk
Most if not all the bottom ones do
But again makes for a messy bom
indigo orbit
yea i get it i love the look of them on mine
im goingbto order another set and put them on my nebula 255
verbal burrow
obligatory show off
indigo orbit
r u doing kigs at all or no turtlecrawler
nice nick u get powder coated or anadized
verbal burrow
Anodized 7075
indigo orbit
from where if i may ask
i may see if i can get it done close to polymaker galaxy purple abs
verbal burrow
from where if i may ask
JLCCNC
indigo orbit
okay ill habe 2 look into them. how much if i may ask?
verbal burrow
Not really comparable to most sets, since i had mine CNC machined rather than lasercut, full order was 350 incl 2 SLM parts
indigo orbit
okay
why do you have more things than I do that's concerning
hoary plover
<:worry:790305555033882654> why do you have more things than I do that's concern...
looks like you are missing the metal tensioners? - it isn't critical but they are nice.
Ignore nick's fancy cnc'd ones 🙂
crystal obsidian
ohh but you remove the tension plates afterwards anyway no?
hoary plover
you don't have to with the metal ones - they fit inside the door 🙂 - but you shouldn't be depending on them for tension :^^:
verbal burrow
<:worry:790305555033882654> why do you have more things than I do that's concern...
9mm spacers, metal tensioners
hoary plover
that too - forgot because though i have them queued for the new build my existing 6mm doesn't use the spacers ;^^:
crystal obsidian
I can't use 9mm unfortunately
oh wait I actually need printed parts still? 
that's gonna be an issue
verbal burrow
Yeah the inserts are printed
crystal obsidian
yeah that's rough, I decided to bite the bullet cause my printed towers snapped
obv I can't print the inserts either then haha
indigo orbit
u can maybe go through pcbway or another company or if u have someone who can print for u
crystal obsidian
yeah if it wasn't so expensive to do that it'd feel a bit better but ugh
ever since I have my merc I haven't printed a single nice looking thing yet
it costing another 30 to get printed inserts is really just another mental setback :')
it's not really about the 30, it's just the endless black hole of money this thing has already been
indigo orbit
if u were in us id gladly print the parts for u
hoary plover
ask in https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/897203706024570881 to see if anyone can help you?
crystal obsidian
what are the print specs for it? is it same as other zerog parts, asa/abs?
limpid yarrow
How big a deal is it if I cut the 9mm plates but might change my mind to 6mm belts?
can they still work together or is that out of the question
indigo orbit
i dont think the plates size matters i think the printed parts do.
maybe need diffrent x joints but
severe glade
i dont think the plates size matters i think the printed parts do.
Atleast on fmg v1 the 9mm plates are different to fit the live shaft idler bearing
I think its the same on v2
Using a smaller belt works
limpid yarrow
Not sure which ones I cut… when did the v 2 release
astral ore
Do your top stepper plates have one hump or 2 in the front? If they have 2 then they are v2
ocean yoke
How big a deal is it if I cut the 9mm plates but might change my mind to 6mm bel...
You can use full 9mm kit, including pulleys, etc but with 6mm belt
broken venture
You can use full 9mm kit, including pulleys, etc but with 6mm belt
X gantry brackets are different between the two
You cant fit live idlers with a 6mm setup
ocean yoke
Were there live idlers in v1?
verbal burrow
Were there live idlers in v1?
On 9mm yep
9mm has always had it, 6mm has never had it
ocean yoke
Anyway, you can use 6mm belt with setup for 9mm
severe glade
Yes
lavish sinew
damn this price is insane I better order from turtle
verbal burrow
thats from xometry, they have pretty bad prices for single parts, jlc or laserboost is probably a better bet lol
severe glade
damn this price is insane I better order from turtle
for 1 set of fmg?
lavish sinew
for 1 set of fmg?
yeah
severe glade
well that's much better
@lavish sinew you could try ordering it like this
did it work out @lunar saffron ?
lunar saffron
delivery is in 2 dayx
lunar saffron
damn this price is insane I better order from turtle
I can give you my dxf file if you want, I paid around 80€ with the delivery all included for 7075 aluminium with no finition
lavish sinew
I can give you my dxf file if you want, I paid around 80€ with the delivery all ...
sure
lunar saffron
@lavish sinew there you go
lavish sinew
thx
lunar saffron
Only the spacers are missing as I printed these
torpid basin
I want to adopt the fmg to my ender 7. What toolheads are you using for 9mm Top Mount and will 10mm belts fit, I dont want to spend 40€ on new belts.
indigo orbit
@torpid basin eva 3 or if u het the front mount x joints u can use xol steathburner dragon burner a4t anthead
lunar saffron
What should I do there ? I only have 4 pieces not 8, I supposed that this is for Top/front mounted, but which is which ? I'm going front mounted so where do I need to countersink ?
lunar saffron
What should I do there ? I only have 4 pieces not 8, I supposed that this is for...
Or are these the same pieces but up side down ? To show both faces ?
mental copper
Or are these the same pieces but up side down ? To show both faces ?
Yes Bottom and Top Face, of the Bigger Plate the side with 4 Countersunks in a Square is the Top Side of the Plate, with These you Screw it into the Rail Carriage
Other Side Screws into your Spacers
indigo orbit
do u ha e the pdf file open to show u wherebto do the hokes
lunar saffron
What's the point of these ?
indigo orbit
and that is where the threaded spaces fo
lunar saffron
I might take a look at the step file
ocean yoke
I want to adopt the fmg to my ender 7. What toolheads are you using for 9mm Top ...
Mind sharing your cad files?
sharp wolf
Can I just take the normal fmg files and do the cam for them and cnc them
Or would I have to change stuff?
verbal burrow
Can I just take the normal fmg files and do the cam for them and cnc them
Yea just check fitment as holes tend to be undersized
Mine are cnc
sharp wolf
Alright
torpid basin
Mind sharing your cad files?
Can do but havent had to change much the original belt path fits. Just had to change to mgn12h carriages and lower the idlers a bit.
lunar saffron
What part of the pulley I'm supposed to remove to de-hub it ?
indigo orbit
top part
lunar saffron
Screw side ? or the other ?
verbal burrow
What part of the pulley I'm supposed to remove to de-hub it ?
The FMG guide goes over how to dehub it
lunar saffron
But on the video the guy remove both side
ands the step it looks like there in no side removed
severe glade
But on the video the guy remove both side
on the pulley you actually wanna use you remove the thicker part with the set screw hole
on the sacrificial pulley you remove the thin part, you then put this thin part on to the main pulley
lunar saffron
sacrificial ??
verbal burrow
severe glade
step 1 and 2 are for the main pulley
3 and 4 are the scarifical pulley
5 and 6 to put the part onto the main pulley
severe glade
lol
lunar saffron
So I needed 6 pulleys in total ??
severe glade
why did the bot trigger on just one pic xD
verbal burrow
prob thought its just repetitive
severe glade
So I needed 6 pulleys in total ??
yes
severe glade
2 for steppers, 2 for x xoints, 2 sacrifices to the printer god
lunar saffron
It's written 4 pulleys not 6 !!
verbal burrow
lunar saffron
But it was not mentiionned that I needed 2 normal to make 1 de-hubbed
verbal burrow
But it was not mentiionned that I needed 2 normal to make 1 de-hubbed
i just showed where its mentioned above
lunar saffron
and when I came to ask I got answered that I only needed 4 pulleys
Didn't think it was different sets
Anyway, are the hub of 6mm pulleys compatible ? Or do I need exactly the same pulleys ?
severe glade
shorter pulleys should work
lunar saffron
The one I actually use for the stepper comes from the same brand as my 9mm one, so it should work, I could just reuse thses
shut pewter
That's just for the dehubbed step
It's not a common step for most builds
And I'm not great at making manuals 😂
lunar saffron
In my mind de-hubbing was just removing a part of the pulley not taking a part from one to put on an other
shut pewter
I just try to cover the basics
I did run without the flange before
Which is in the notes that you can do that
lunar saffron
I have some 6mm pulleys from mellows, I could reuse these as 'sacrificional' pulleys
shut pewter
As long as they are the same brand
Though batch to batch might change the tolerances as well
lunar saffron
And I'm not great at making manuals 😂
That's fine, at least there is a guide xD
lunar saffron
Though batch to batch might change the tolerances as well
All my pulleys come from mellow
ocean yoke
I did run without the flange before
Can you have a printed flange? :)
shut pewter
Might have a little issue 😂😂
What plastic and print settings
lunar saffron
PETG, 4 walls I think and 15% infill, going to reprint in ASA with 6 walls and 30% maybe
shut pewter
40% or more
broken venture
I highly recommend adding a washing behind the nut
I just used the whole body with it instead, had that happen a bit too
lunar saffron
I tried with a big aluminum plate, but still the print is to weak, or mellow pulleys too strong xD
lunar saffron
I did run without the flange before
If I just run without the flange, it means I just have to remove the bigger part of the pulley ?
lunar saffron
lunar saffron
Why is nothing fiting properly ? 😭
shut pewter
Stock frame you might not be able to use the center bolt
Often hits one of the factory bolts
lunar saffron
Yup this is what is happening
lunar saffron
Isn't the BOM incorrect ? For live idlers, I need more than 10 695 bearings ?
verbal burrow
Isn't the BOM incorrect ? For live idlers, I need more than 10 695 bearings ?
For the full 9mm setup you need a total of 24 F695 bearings, and 10 695 bearings.
lunar saffron
Not according to the step file
verbal burrow
Not according to the step file
The XY joints only require 1x 695 each
And the tension towers also require one 695 each, a 9mm bearing stack is 2x F695, and 1x 695, we have bearing stacks in each tension tower, one in each XY joint, and 3 in each motor mount
lunar saffron
verbal burrow
Those are F695
You can see the flange on them
That’s why it requires 24x F695, and only 10x 695, it’s double the amount of bearings, + 4 extra for live idlers
lunar saffron
So basically I needed 4 more than the basic merc 😒
So now I'm stuck because I need 4 *@&( bearings
verbal burrow
So basically I needed 4 more than the basic merc 😒
Yup 4x F695’s
limpid yarrow
Before I print, does an 8mm shaft affect any of the 3D-printed files? Didn't see alternate files, so I assume no
i got the classifieds
astral ore
Nope, should be good to go
limpid yarrow
Thanks! Also, any tips for printing with Flashforge ASA? Ive had some major warpage, dried for ten hours
astral ore
I’ve never used it before so I’m not sure. I typically run ASA at 110c bed and between 260-270c hotend
I also heat soak until chamber is at 50c
limpid yarrow
Gotcha, thank you. I will keep working on it and aim to get decent results. Not sure why I haven't been able to dial it in
hoary plover
Gotcha, thank you. I will keep working on it and aim to get decent results. Not ...
check if your filament is dry? I had some ASA last week from poly that was being a pain to tune in - turned out it was not dry enough (which was a first for ASA with me) after doing an aggressive dry for ~24hrs it was easy as all my other ASA's to tune and use.
torpid basin
Gotcha, thank you. I will keep working on it and aim to get decent results. Not ...
Could also be a bad batch. Had issues before with esun ASA foaming and warping even after drying it for 24h.
hoary plover
yea so far i've stuck with overture & poly for any ASA - grab a few rolls whenever i catch a sale 🙂
torpid basin
I want to adopt the fmg to my ender 7. What toolheads are you using for 9mm Top ...
I bought this printhead to test it out. While I wait for the delivery, any other options for printed toolheads for top mount, other then E34M1? The BOM is kinda steep.
I had good results with iSanmate ASA, the cheapest option on amazon. The smell is bad but it stays dry for weeks and prints great.
broken venture
I bought this printhead to test it out. While I wait for the delivery, any other...
Cancel it and get your money back
Wrong toolhead
torpid basin
Why looks like it could fit
broken venture
The only supported and approved cnc toolhead is the Mellow version.
Those are not approved, and have terrible quality control / build quality.
We dont approve of any bluerolls or Funssor, cause they are stolen designs that are terribly implemented
torpid basin
I understand
broken venture
You are guaranteed to have issues with it
torpid basin
Looks like the top mount version can support mgn9 in front mount orientation.
Guess I'll remix a dragon burner mount for now.
lunar saffron
I think my gantry is not straight... 😅
severe glade
I think my gantry is not straight... 😅
belt walk is a fairly common issue with the full metal gantry unfortunately
could be caused by misalgined top and bottom plates on some part, or suboptimal shimming