I like most of the adjustments you made
#Persona 5 Hardtype (?)
kind rampart
Yea, she had 2 exclusives in Dx2 as well
valid jay
I mean
Beelzebub being more powerful than Alice isn't an issue
He's a lord of Hell vs a literal child
Fire of Sinai being strong is exactly the point. It was terrifying in SMTIV
kind rampart
Yeah, I just slightly nerfed it to be closer to its Noctutne version rather than SMT V version
Where it did 3-7 hits and was Almighty
I just changed it to Bless with innate Bless Pierce so it worked with Martyr's Gift
marble spindle
I'm fine with skills being strong but I kind of just don't want another Hassou Tobi situation where you melt bosses in like two or three turns
valid jay
Frankly, Die For Me! was already fairly useless. By the time you get access to Alice, you don't really need insta-kills.
kind rampart
I'd probably change things up so attacks in general do less damage
marble spindle
Especially since Hassou Tobi was already nerfed in Hardtype
kind rampart
Kinda like what Apocalypse did
valid jay
I'm fine with skills being strong but I kind of just don't want another Hassou T...
I don't really see what's wrong with this in principle. Defeating bosses more easily is generally considered a reward in hard games.
Not a detriment.
and it's not like Metatron is something you can get super early on anyway
Iirc, don't you have to max a few social links AND be level 80+ to get him
marble spindle
The Twins rank 5 let's you get any strong persona at any level
And Ryuji rank 7 exists too
kind rampart
Iirc, don't you have to max a few social links AND be level 80+ to get him
Justice SL
When maxed, it unlocks Metatron
marble spindle
Metatron is story gated due to Akechi SL but most strong personas are easy to obtain
kind rampart
Though you need to progress Strength a bit to get access to multi-fusion so you can make Michael, afaik
marble spindle
Yeah
Pretty sure confidant abilities are hard-coded too sadly
So you can't really fix the issue of the Twin's rank 5
Unless you somehow make the money costs extortionate or even beyond what you can afford
kind rampart
Yea
valid jay
what
kind rampart
Which is what I would prolly do
valid jay
why would you need to fix it
kind rampart
Just make it cost obscene prices
valid jay
Money isn't obscenely easy to come by
marble spindle
It is?
kind rampart
Money isn't obscenely easy to come by
Ryuji Rank 7 be like
marble spindle
Spend like 10 minutes in Mementos and you can have max money
valid jay
I mean, if you spend a lot of time farming, yeah I guess
I never really gamed the system that way
marble spindle
Ryuji Rank 7 grinding, Chihaya's money boost skill, money boost accessory, and money and item boost from Jose's shop
I had way too much money the whole game and I wasn't even trying to get a lot
Always had obscenely strong personas since like Okumura and you can reasonably do it at Kaneshiro's with a bit of grinding
marble spindle
I do like exclusives mostly being on max-rank personas though
Makes the social links actually feel rewarding
For Personas I mean
kind rampart
Yeah, I will add more exclusives outside of that, but not that many more
marble spindle
Them being more in line with the Jack Bros skills would be good
kind rampart
Cuz I think some Personas to be added like Adramelech should have their exclusives like Hellish Brand
marble spindle
Like not obscenely powerful by any means but still great
kind rampart
Hellish Brand is Agidyne + Dekaja
marble spindle
Sounds good 🙂
I still do feel Maria's unique is way too good though lol
At least the heat riser portion
marble spindle
Keep in mind Yusuke's exclusive is party wide heat riser
valid jay
Plus, again, Maria is an endgame persona.
marble spindle
That's the main reason I'd be against it
Since it'd devalue a party member
@kind rampart You changed the buff to be one-turn long every three turns?
valid jay
That's more fair
marble spindle
Seems more fair but still keeps the powerful effect
I like it
Especially since Maria no longer has her original busted exclusives of like 30% health regen a turn lol
kind rampart
Also, I tried really hard to make Trumpeter interesting
valid jay
DOOT DOOT
marble spindle
Evil Melody is a very unique skill!
kind rampart
Cuz outside of IV, Trumpeter just had the Ma-dynes and Evil Melody
The hefty resistance decrease of Evil Melody actually comes from how Keraunos worked in Dx2
marble spindle
My only critique would be that maybe gun is too common of a weakness for him, since all party members can attack it
Maybe just straight up give him no weakness
But still be effected by crits
kind rampart
There
marble spindle
He's a killer lmao
But yeah my thought process was just that if he has an easy to exploit weakness, you can reliably baton pass every turn for major damage
kind rampart
Yeah, this is why I usually try to avoid them
kind rampart
Fire of Sinai being strong is exactly the point. It was terrifying in SMTIV
Fire of Sinai was not in SMT IV
It was in IV Apocalypse, however, but it wasn't very good
Also, I am thinking to change the base power of all tiers
Weak damage: 35 base power
Medium damage: 70 base power
Heavy damage: 125 base power
Severe damage: 170 base power
Colossal damage: 220 base power
valid jay
Yeah, this is why I usually try to avoid them
if i remember right, only Kamoshida got one
based on your sheet
kind rampart
Madarame himself has no weakness, but his clones do
Kaneshiro, Wakaba, MDL-ED, and Sae do lack weaknesses
So I was a biiiiit more merciful on the "no weaknesses" thing this time around
valid jay
By which you mean only adding one. ;)
kind rampart
Either way, I hope I haven't missed anything else
marble spindle
Kaneshiro, Wakaba, MDL-ED, and Sae do lack weaknesses
keep in mind also that Kaneshiro is designed around using technicals against the second phase
which are about the same as weaknesses
kind rampart
Yea, true
So I just stopped at making him able to fight back after the bodyguards are gone
marble spindle
Yeah
I like making most of the powerful bosses have no weakness
Also on the topic of the bosses
Yaldabaoth's main body having almighty resistance is a good change i think
remote totem
it'd be really evil if his affinities cycled
marble spindle
Mainly just because using almighty skills like Morning Star and Megidolaon are typically always the best way to kill the arms while still doing massive damage to the main body
marble spindle
it'd be really evil if his affinities cycled
that sounds fun lmao
it could also give leverage to switching out your party mid battle
kind rampart
Mainly just because using almighty skills like Morning Star and Megidolaon are t...
Especially considering that things like Antichthon and Megiddo Ark now exist
marble spindle
I still think Antichthon should be unique to bosses tbh
kind rampart
I only really plan on having it on 2 Personas
marble spindle
Satanael?
marble spindle
I see
kind rampart
Black Viper also gets replaced by Megiddo Ark btw
marble spindle
Awh I see
A bit of a shame since Black Viper is a favourite of mine]
Maybe give Black Viper a weakened debilitate effect while Megiddo Ark is just straight damage?
kind rampart
Hmmm, not really sure tbh
marble spindle
It's up to you really
kind rampart
Anyhow, lemme see the other exclusives I can think of
marble spindle
Will you be changing some overpowered early game personas like Kaguya and Orpheus?
kind rampart
Hellish Brand (Adramelech) - Heavy Fire damage to 1 foe. Cancel all buffs
Hell Thrust (Mara) - Heavy Phys damage to random foes 1-2x. Decrease Defense
Tandava (Shiva) - Heavy Almighty damage to all foes. Greatly decrease Defense
Souffle d'Eclair (Loup-garou) - Heavy Strength-based Elec damage to 1 foe. 15% crit rate
Makabuild (Samyaza) - Greatly increase own Attack for 3 turns
Kannuki-Throw (Uriel) - Miniscule Phys damage to random foes 15x. 0% crit rate
Serpent of Sheol (Raphael) - Drain HP and SP from all foes
Lamentation (Gabriel) - Inflict random ailments to all foes. Greatly decrease Accuracy/Evasion
Fallen Grace (Michael) - Severe Phys damsge to 1 foe. 30% crit rate
marble spindle
Ohh nice nice
Speaking of Mara; will he stay as a psy persona like in P5R or do you plan on converting him back to a fire persona with his old unique from P3?
kind rampart
Keraunos (Zeus) - Heavy Strength-based Elec damage to 1 foe. Pierces resistances, makes target weak to Elec
kind rampart
Speaking of Mara; will he stay as a psy persona like in P5R or do you plan on co...
He'll stay as Psy, I honestly think it works for Mara
kind rampart
Also, yes, I gave the 4 Archangels their exclusives from SMT IV
Though slightly adjusted for 3 of them
marble spindle
What were they before?
kind rampart
Kannuki-Throw: Weak Phys damage to random foes 15x
Serpent of Sheol: Drain HP and MP from all foes
Lamentation: Inflict all ailments possible to all foes (including Brand)
Fallen Grace: 666 Almighty damage to 1 foe. Can crit
kind rampart
Uriel is a joke in IV as a boss
He can't get past Phys repel, and Pierce didn't go through Repel either
Meaning Lightning of God gets no-sold by Makarakarn
marble spindle
oh lol
kind rampart
Raphael isn't hard, just annoying cuz he can sometimes Diarahan
Also, Lamentation gets nulled if you null ANY of the ailments
Fallen Grace is obnoxious though
It completely destroys a low-leveled team
And in a low level run, you likely will have to start the first turn with no demons
Cuz Gabriel would have killed them all with Concentrate + Megidolaon
Which she is scripted to use after the dialogue prompt
At Level 60, only 2 demons have pver 666 HP to survive Fallen Grace
Grendel and Catoblepas
And there are no beefy demons at that level that repel Fire
It may be possible at Level 66, as you can get Abaddon, and there is Dakini, Nidhiggr, Oumitsunu, Taowu, and Ammut who all have over 666 HP
That all is NOTHING compared to the BS known as the Masakado boss
Basically, he drains EVERYTHING and resists Almighty to an absurd degree
You're on a 10 turn limit
AND his attacks hit like a struck
Curse thy Enemy always counts as hitting a weakness, meaning he'll get more turns if it doesn't miss
Masakado is the definition of "No fun allowed"
valid jay
Will you be changing some overpowered early game personas like Kaguya and Orpheu...
man just called Neo Cadenza OP
marble spindle
It is?
marble spindle
how not
you get it at like 17 and its a better version of Yusuke's ultimate skill
valid jay
besides the fact that summoning Orpheus at that level is completely pointless, given that Joker is not meant to be a bloody healer, it's not even a full heal
marble spindle
also Orpheus' trait gives you 4 endures per battle with endure in its skillset lol
marble spindle
besides the fact that summoning Orpheus at that level is completely pointless, g...
it gives the party full heat riser lol
valid jay
and
valid jay
and if joker dies it's game over
i fail to see why bypassing that is bad
it shouldn't even be a thing
marble spindle
enduring 5 times per battle is broken especially at level 17
marble spindle
needing to use dlc persona is a skill issue lol
marble spindle
and?
valid jay
even the worst abilities don't require you to die to be useful
marble spindle
getting 5 get out of jail free cards (6 if you use enduring soul) every fight makes the game unlosable
marble spindle
Any Persona can get 99 all stats in royal
Orpheus is objectively the best support persona if you put in like what, 2 hours to get it max stats?
valid jay
so you'd rather waste time on Orpheus than using any other, better persona because you die a lot?
marble spindle
You are intentionally being stupid
How do you interpret what I said in that way lol
valid jay
Because, again, you're whining about his endures
Which, I repeat
are POINTLESS
if you do not die
Why else would you keep Orpheus around unless you needed them
marble spindle
Yet it also makes dying impossible and thus breaks the game
I don't think it should even be an option, that's my point
valid jay
would you also remove easy difficulties as well
marble spindle
If you're making a rebalance mod of the game, why wouldn't you nerf the theoretically best skills in the game?
valid jay
like how far does that go
marble spindle
They are literally making a rebalance dude
valid jay
I understand that
marble spindle
marble spindle
Because it fundamentally outclasses a party member's unique third awakening skill while also making you nigh unkillable, and can be fused normally at literally level 17
it was actually lower iirc
level 11 lol
valid jay
I still don't care that it exists. Nobody is forced to use it. Then again, I'm biased. I care more about people enjoying their time even if they hit a skill ceiling.
Logically, I know you're right and that it needs to be nerfed. Idk. I'm tired and just emotional when I'm tired.
vague knoll
5 Endures is OP but also inconsequential because the game is meant to be sufficiently threatening, but the game is not threatening because enemies are stupid.
If the mod makes the game sufficiently threatening, 5 Endures would be OP.
Neo Cadenza is OP in the early game, but only OP in the endgame because it does two things at once to undo ||Lavenza|| doing two things at once: Dekaja and dealing damage. The only other comparable actions are Life Wall and Salvation.
Because Joker acts before Yusuke against bosses, including ||Lavenza||, Joker is the preferred buffer so that the ailment and Critical rolls can come later so that the attack buff can stack with Baton Pass and several other multipliers.
Neo Cadenza is also superior to both Thermopylae and Hyakka Ryouran, somehow.
The mod should easily fix all of this.
marble spindle
Thank you Mr. Anubis
marble spindle
Logically, I know you're right and that it needs to be nerfed. Idk. I'm tired an...
You are fine dw
kind rampart
Neo Cadenza is busted
Like, I'm sorry, but Luster Candy + Mediarama at Level 13 or something is just too good
kind rampart
don't die 5 times
It completely invalidates the value of resistances when you have 5-6 lives
kind rampart
That completely defeats the purpose of P5 Hardtype
Where you actually have to value resistances
kind rampart
But yeah, in no universe is early Mediarama + Luster Candy not busted
valid jay
What do u think luster candy tastes like
kind rampart
Idun in SMT V has it too, at Level 42, and it costs over 100 MP, and still is one of the best healers
kind rampart
Yeah, it's like they never learned from SMT IV Apocalypse
Because bosses are as stupid as they are in most other Megaten games
valid jay
Yeah
kind rampart
cough, Odin
kind rampart
Odin is a joke
valid jay
For a first boss, that's stupid
kind rampart
Just bring Phys repel and Elec null, he can't do anything to you
Odin is that pathetic
And sure, he has Gungnir, but there is a catch to that skill
valid jay
Well, yeah, that's why most bosses have had Almighty fallbacks
kind rampart
He only will use it after Charge, and only uses Charge on the second press turn
valid jay
I actually haven't beaten SMTV yet
kind rampart
Meaning if he just has his turn ended for attacking, he can't use Gungnir to ignore your resistances
Bosses also severely lack urgency with Dekaja/Dekunda
As for the Fiends...well, they're basically the exact same as they were in Nocturne, just that they have weaknesses now
valid jay
Wait are you saying the bosses are too easy?
kind rampart
Yea, a lot of them are
kind rampart
Hydra and Loup-garou are the only main challenges
Particularly Hydra
But other than that, bosses are pathetic
valid jay
Loup-garou is so cool
valid jay
I've actually been hoping for more mods for the game
But it seems like nobody is making any
kind rampart
But yeah, only 2 bosses pose a threat, MAYBE 3
Nintendo Switch moment
Cuz I really hope for SMT V Hardtype that brings bosses to SMT IVA quality
Seriously, IVA bosses have some really good targeting AI most of the time
remote totem
It completely invalidates the value of resistances when you have 5-6 lives
then should orpheus f be made max level confidant?
or ng+ exclusive like satanael
marble spindle
I think they will most likely just try to nerf neo-cadenza lol
and change the trait ofc
upper plinth
Is it possible to make the SP cost percentage-based? Like make Neo Cadenza take 60% of your SP or whatever so you can't just fire it off easily, and using it repeatedly will absolutely require SP healing first.
marble spindle
Keep in mind, though, skills such as Spell Master already exist, along with numerous traits which lower SP cost by a percentage
valid jay
Good
kind rampart
Hmmm, what else what else...
kind rampart
That is definitely good knowledge at least
kind rampart
I hopefully can one day make this project a thing
kind rampart
I guess once I do somehow get P5R on PC, I can actually start working on it
marble spindle
You could probably get it decently cheap on a key site if you are inclined
You should also rename the concept like you have with the P3 and 4 ones, perhaps to something based around heisting.
kind rampart
Yeah, true
kind rampart
You could probably get it decently cheap on a key site if you are inclined
Yeah, too bad I didn't find it
denuvo moment
vague knoll
Proposal: rename Hardtype to some antonym of Royal to evoke the difficulty, e.g., Peasant or Prisoner; Slave may not be the best word
lament sphinx
kind rampart
Now, let's see, some people are doubting on how I would want to change things for the mod, but I would like to hear their suggestions too