ark-2

[tropic crag]

No shit, everyone know Snail is shady, this isn't news to anyone here

[fallow niche]

Can still move on from the conquest/tea issue

[tropic crag]

Move on already

[wanton pike]

I just hope/wish WildCard will continue on ark 2 in the future without snail lol

[tropic crag]

Not going to happen

Without a miracle

[blissful perch]

It’s always worth another mention that the CoC and server experience for Ark 2 is in dire need of improvement over ark 1

I’d say it borders on required

[wanton pike]

Although Ark 2 will be primarily primitive, which is very different from the current ark lol

[blissful perch]

Game balance ≠ server/online experience imo

[wanton pike]

I am honestly still in doubt of buying ASA due to “obvious” reasons lol but I’ve seen some mod developers play around with the current ark and UE5 and it looked incredible already!

[blissful perch]

The potential is immense

0 smart people question that…what the question winds up being is how much time/effort WC has been able to spend making use of that potential to elevate the ark experience

[tropic crag]

Really wondering what these "obvious" reasons for doubting a direct upgraded remake of one of the better games of the last few years are 😂

[blissful perch]

“Is the improvement worth the cost” comes to mind

It’s very likely for some folks the answer is “no”. Not enough new gameplay or improved gameplay is offered to justify paying new game prices, etc

[tropic crag]

Another 8 years of updates and content screams "yes" to me, but idk maybe I'm built different

[blissful perch]

I’d likely only play ASA until ark 2 comes out

[tropic crag]

True and real

[blissful perch]

I’m extremely on the fence about ASA. Prolly won’t buy on release, but it’s so critical I follow it so I can better ground what ark 2 is after

[tropic crag]

I'd certainly dip my toes back into ASA though when new stuff drops or there's a lack of something in Ark 2, though

[wanton pike]

If I’m buying Asa then that will def be the case for me aswel

[winged dome]

With Ark Asc and Ark2 having such drastic gameplay differences, I think there'd be enough to continue to play both games relatively consistently for a while. I don't have much issue with a lot of Ark1's mechanics, and a fresh coat of engine paint and a heap of QoL features, new modding capabilities, and a revitalized cross-play community; I can definitely see myself playing Asc well after Ark2 releases

Others' mileage will vary of course

[viscid jasper]

Ку

[blissful perch]

I have a lot of beef with a lot of ark 1’s mechanics that sort of ground me down over the years

Loved my time with ark - otherwise I’d not be here - but I’m looking for something new that changes the formula a bit

[wanton pike]

I hope ASA will have more upgraded and changed creatures like with the tlc upgrades! Not just a UE5 visual overhaul of all the creatures!

[stray elm]

I doubt that on day-one, but I can see there being more TLC's later on

[wanton pike]

I hope so!

[desert swallow]

I want to see them bring the older maps up to standard, like island and scorched earth

make them a little more interesting.

Aberration - fix the rad zone.

Aberration is a great map, but the rad zone is just "full" of nothing. There are points of interest like rock drake eggs, black pearls and the worst cave in the game but the zone itself is just horrible.

[sand hearth]

yo guys

how y´all doing?

[finite wharf]

yeah the rad zone is immensely empty and filled with creatures just standing around for the most part, not really figthing each other-- but only you. I would love to see more things to see/do down there since its just monotonous. Only reason to go down there is for a few materials, reaper embryos, or drake eggs tbh.

[thorny totem]

When ASA gets released, will ASE get taken off steam? I mean like will it no longer be purchuseable?

[finite wharf]

it'll probably be for sale still unless they decide to completely drive sales to the newer version

[desert swallow]

not sure, there will still be unofficial servers to play on

There will be some people who refuse to leave ASE

[thorny totem]

Yeah
I doubt I'll switch unless it's really good, as all my friends have this
And now i cannot reasonably recommend ark to anyone because it might not be worth it, but if it actually turs out to be "better" (if it's full of glitches, bugs) than ASA, and we all stick to ASE I'm afraid they might not be able to buy it anymore

[finite wharf]

ASA is something im going to prob wait 6+ months for

[thorny totem]

I really hope it's not going to be a glitching mess
I don't want to see ark fail

[desert swallow]

have faith in the proven track record of wild card to create a glitch free product.

to be fair, creating ark would be incredibly difficult.

[ripe cedar]

What about official server performance, i think that is more important especially because there wont be as many super set up unofficials on launch

[thorny totem]

I'm only afraid because they said they don't have much experience in un5, that's why the delay
So they decide to replace their mostly working game with one that's gonna be questionable to say the least

[untold ingot]

No one has much experience with Ue5.... It's brand new. Anyone who says they have lots of experience with it doesn't know what they are talking about lol

[thorny totem]

I know that, that's not the point
The point is that to me it feels like they are rushing into something that they don't have much experience in

[untold ingot]

No one has much experience in it is my point

[thorny totem]

I feel like it might be rushed exactly because of this, and just generally too much commitment
You won't have ASE as a backup, because they cut all support to it
It's like cutting off your leg because you will get a prosthetic one after. But you don't know how good the prosthetic will be. It might be better, it might barely work

[untold ingot]

They are really good at Ue4, and most of Ue5 is similar with just some basic ui changes. The new stuff in ue5 is new for everyone

The fact that they don't have 10 years of experience in ue5 doesn't mean the dev team can't handle it lol

Also, it's not like the are making Asa from scratch. They are editing what is already there (as far as assets and map go).

[thorny totem]

Didn't they say it's built up again in the new engine?

[untold ingot]

They aren't doing it from scratch.

[serene onyx]

Could’ve sworn they said they were

[untold ingot]

They are reworking everything, but the Ue5 update doesn't really change much of the custom code. It's more for assets, sky and stuff.

The code changes they are making isn't directly related to ue5

[thorny totem]

Well, i just hope you are right
I'm incredibly pessimistic about this whole thing, i still feel like they are rushing it
I saw what happened to other games that rushed ue5, and it was not fun

[untold ingot]

They said they are doing a Ue5 overhaul, adding some new Ue5 features, updating art assets. They never said they are remaking the game from scratch.

[serene onyx]

Ah ok, then idk where i got that from 🤣

[thorny totem]

Yeah, i thought that too

[serene onyx]

Mb

[untold ingot]

It's a myth going around

[serene onyx]

Damn

[untold ingot]

It'll be either really really good, or it'll be really really bad.

[thorny totem]

And another thing i just can't understand
Is the 60$ price tag includes all dcl content?

[split dove]

yes, all dlcs except the new one coming in Q4 this year

[thorny totem]

I just hear so many different things, people say it will be a bundle, that you will have to buy it separately, i just don't know what to believe anymore

[worldly garden]

All you need to do is read the Crunch that explains it. https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/articles.html/community-crunch-356-ark-roadmap-update-rhyniognatha-concept-and-more-r2078/

[desert swallow]

ya but my friend in another discord said something else.

[untold ingot]

If your friend from another discord said something other than that all Asa dlc other than the new one will be priced at $60 all inclusive with a new free Dino every dlc, then your friend doesn't keep up with the news

[harsh spear]

@vital jetty why do you think conquest is not part of official? im pretty sure if you filter for official in the game youll see conquest servers.

[untold ingot]

It's not run by wildcard

[desert swallow]

I don't know... My friend makes a lot of sense and it's easier than me reading or trusting someone I don't know.

[untold ingot]

You can read the announcements yourself...

[south lance]

what new gamemodes yall think theyll have in asa

we alr know sotf is coming as a dedicated gamemode

and its likely that there will be an official pve/p

[blissful perch]

None? Should be the same suite at launch unless there’s a super dead mode being cut

[south lance]

wdym

cause i think a huge amount of servers will be freed up

and idk if theyll just use those resources elsewhere or repurpose them into new gamemode hosting servers

[blissful perch]

…they’d either shit them down (sensible) or rope them into existing planned ASA infrastructure

He said “new”

Sotf technically exists. It’s the delivery that’s being changed

I’d argue neither are “modes”, at least for officials. Prim+ may have been for a tiny bit but it was pretty quickly moved to unofficial then discontinued

What I do find a bit sad is the discontinuation of procedural arks. It confirms my suspicions that the future of ark is in hand crafted maps, but it would have been cool to have people playing on wacky procedural maps

[tropic crag]

Yeah, I was really hoping that a revamp of the system was in the works for UE5

[blissful perch]

Technically procedural arks are “supported” in that they’re in vanilla ark…but that’s all the support I’ve seen lol

[tropic crag]

Would've been sick tbh with all the UE5 stuff

[blissful perch]

I’m fine either way, but it’s telling imo of what’s to come in map design

[tropic crag]

There were official proc gen servers, just as there were official Prim+ servers for a bit

[blissful perch]

Right, but they’re gone now i presume

[tropic crag]

True, and it's telling good (or however you would word that idk I'm not an English major)

[blissful perch]

Uhhh. It’s a strong tell?

[tropic crag]

Telling doesn't neccessarily equal good, right? I was trying to get the point across that it's good that the maps will stay hand made lol

[blissful perch]

Huh

I’m not so sure it’s purely good

I prefer it, don’t get me wrong. But procedural gameplay does offer a degree of random silly energy that makes gameplay repeatable

[tropic crag]

Not too often does that occur in a game that has a predefined story and specific locations, though 😅

At least, to my knowledge

[blissful perch]

That’s kinda the split that could be made tho

You have your structured story driven maps with key locations etc…and offer a procedural option for the other huge piece of ark (at least what we know of ark), which is the NON story maps

There’s certainly a spectrum of procedural generation - from complete to partial. Iirc most current ark 1 DLC has some degree of procedural terrain Gen and resource placement

[tropic crag]

Fair enough, but most non-story maps have their own aesthetics that the creator wants to uphold that could be ruined by full proc gen as well, right?

[blissful perch]

Idk about ruined…procedural maps would be posed as an alternative suite of options to experience map building

You could hand craft a map…or you could smack “make procedural map” and a map would create itself

[tropic crag]

Yeah, but if the point is to make all the biomes cohesive, then wouldn't there need to be at least a little hand crafting? Maybe I'm just not that well versed in how far along the proc gen tech actually is 😅

[blissful perch]

It depends big time on a lot of factors. You’d 100% have to make design choices that cater to procedural maps

For example, you’d need a selection of “biome types” with certain characteristics associated that the procedural generation can play with

You could for example require that “swamp” create “swamp_beach” nearby or something to force some level of transition, but you can’t obviously have the same level of blending you’d get with a hand crafted map

If A is an “edge” biome and B is a “center” biome, AAABAAA for example could be forced by the procedural Gen. You could even vary (ABA or AABA etc) the amount of edge habitat. But again, it’ll be a bit limited. What you can see ofc are all types of combinations, which you can’t reasonably ever expect to see with a suite of hand crafted maps (since you can quickly make hundreds or thousands of procedural maps)

[winged dome]

Or just pull a Ragnarok and have a massive sheer wall separating the hottest and coldest places on the map because reasons 😂

But seriously, procedural map updates could be pretty awesome. Sad that Ark1's version is as underloved as it is

[blissful perch]

It makes sense if resources are tight to cut the procedural stuff, because there’s likely little overlap with handcrafted maps

[desert swallow]

This is actually the way it works. There is a vast desert that is extremely hot in Northern Canada, just around Hudson's Bay, but go far enough north, snow and polar bears immediately. Source: I live in Canada.

[untold ingot]

I mean, with 5.2 even hand crafted maps can be procedurally generated

[vapid panther]

AI will take procedurally generated maps to unimagined possibilites.

[untold ingot]

Hmm, more imagined possibilities. But it'll really cut down the workload

[exotic merlin]

cmn khi nào ra ARK 2?

[harsh spear]

im pretty sure ark already has procedural elements in it with trees and rocks spawning differently.

and with UE 5 they have new tools that include procedural generation to make maps quicker.

[verbal wind]

lets hope its better than the ark 1 procgen

[harsh spear]

but imo No Mans Sky is a good example why purely procedural generation is just bad

not even speaking about the fact that its not purely procedural, everything is given at a certain degree

[verbal wind]

i tried it a few times and kept getting maps with random divets and hills, there was 0 flat land

[tropic crag]

All trees and rocks in Ark 1 are hand placed, so uh

[harsh spear]

pretty sure theyre not. at least the ones you can harvest.

[tropic crag]

They are, so

[verbal wind]

they are

maybe they used a procgen for where they ended up but they never move

[harsh spear]

if you make a screenshot of a map on a certain location and then load a new file of the same map im pretty sure ive seen trees and rocks at different locations

[verbal wind]

ive played enough center and rag to know they do not move ever

[harsh spear]

they do not move after harvesting but the base layouts differ i think

[normal kelp]

@verbal wind wtf is ur profile pic pls?

[verbal wind]

?

[normal kelp]

pride

lmao

[verbal wind]

and no you could refresh the map new a hundred times and they wouldnt move

what about it?

[normal kelp]

nothing nothint

idk what u proud of tho🤣

[verbal wind]

its the flag for lesbian pride

[normal kelp]

And its cringe, and cringe AF.

[verbal wind]

says u

[normal kelp]

Says > 70% of the world

[verbal wind]

but back on topic the trees and rocks dont move

[normal kelp]

Nvm im not tryna get banned for this cringe shit

Cos this server has a snowflake dev team anyways

[tropic crag]

You literally came and joined this discord to be a bigoted pos? Very cool

[verbal wind]

dont feed the troll

[normal kelp]

Na i came cos i deleted my old account and cos i just got cheated on

Idk why i argue with pve snowflakes

[tropic crag]

Oh don't worry, statement made, I'm done lol

[normal kelp]

You have "pride" too

So i know you are sick

[dense leaf]

Do we have any idea whenever ark two might be coming out?>

[raw mortar]

sometime 2024

prob gon get delayed till 2025

[wanton pike]

@normal kelp how is anything you said related to ark? 😅

You hoping they will introduce pride dinosaurs?

[worldly garden]

End of 2024 is the official stance on it.

[wanton pike]

I’m expecting 2025 tbh

[tropic forge]

for ASA they better start teasing whit clips of map scenarios dinos changes so on cause its 3 months from now if they release at the beginning of september

[wanton pike]

Will probably happen during the Xbox showcase soon

11th of June if I’m not mistaken

[tropic forge]

when thats? summer festival?

[wanton pike]

Just checked, its the 11th of June

Think they will show us a lot then

[tropic forge]

they better do more than show, info about certain things that major affect online gameplay should be adress even if they dont change anything

so next thursday is the summer games festival

[worldly garden]

I see people getting hyped that they may show gameplay on June 11. People never learn. 🤦🏻 Outside of gameplay I don't know what else they would actually show on June 11. Unless they do a non-gameplay trailer like ARK 2. It's unlikely we'll see anything ASA related at the Showcase.

[tropic forge]

they said they will give us a clip of footage of ASA before launch although if not mistake they said that whit a few weeks and summer games festival its months away so i dont aspect nothing from them there but like i said i hope they address info about certain things that major affect online gameplay before launch on steam to buy or pre order that much i think old players deserve to make the decision on buying or not

[wanton pike]

Why do you think it’s unlikely?

[worldly garden]

They have repeatedly said in the Crunches that they will be showcasing gameplay shortly before launch. June 11 is not Shortly before August 31.

As for unlikely to show anything, well what else would they show? They could talk about stuff, but all they'd have to display would be non-ingame screenshots. I think at big events like that devs usually have stuff to show when they talk.

[tropic forge]

naa not really, last summer they give that 1min trailer for ark 2 so who knows maybe they give 2 trailers this year 1min each for ark 2 and ASA or maybe just 1m30s trailer of both together to keep ppl talking about 🤣

[wanton pike]

They could show a teaser, doesn’t have to be a complete trailer or gameplay. Also not all devs discuss their games on big events.

[stray elm]

They could show a in-engine cinematic for ASA.
They did say 'gameplay' will be shortly before release.

I'd be down for a quick 20-second long cinematic of a recreation of the hidden-lake rex-chase scene in the original ARK-1 trailer.

Now the question is, are the dev's down to make that.

[worldly garden]

They could very well do that yes. I'm just confused why many, even the knowledgeable folk think there will be gameplay at the event.

[stray elm]

Don't know.
Wildcard are more likely to showcase gameplay on their own terms for a game like ASA, since people already rawfully know what they're getting into if you've seen ARK-1 gameplay.

[worldly garden]

I'm still convinced ASA and Animated are tied together in terms of launching. But as for anything at the gaming events, i'm ruling it out unless WC say something. 🤣

[wanton pike]

None of us said gameplay specifically 😝 we were talking about possible sneak peaks from ASA that might be showed during the Xbox game event soon.

[worldly garden]

I know, I never said you did.

[blissful perch]

Same. I kinda doubt WC has any major pressure to market ASA at the June event…since ASE and ASA carry pretty strong momentum by themselves. They’re prolly gonna drop a trailer when they’re ready

[winged dome]

Expect nothing and never be disappointed 😂

[worldly garden]

Not entirely true. If I expect nothing, and therefore don't watch the shows as a result, then they surprise us with something new then i'd be disappointed because I missed it. 🤯

[winged dome]

If something is shown, that's what the announcements channel is for

[verbal tinsel]

Still no gameplay for ark asa or trailer

[worldly garden]

There won't be gameplay before August.

[verbal tinsel]

Oh so i have to wait then 2 months

[worldly garden]

2 months will fly by, just do something else in the meantime, it's easy.

[verbal tinsel]

Alright thank you

[harsh spear]

asa is ase anyway. its the same game but ported to ue5. so not much to be hyped about imo

[winged dome]

Quite a bit imo. Full modding support and cross platform play, new creatures, new mechanics, new DLCs, and a lot of new modding potential

[worldly garden]

That's called ignorance or denial, you pick! 🤣

[harsh spear]

thats the sprinkles on top so you actually buy the same cake twice

if you want asa gameplay watch ase gameplay lol

[winged dome]

If it's a pretty good cake, wouldn't you pay for more of it? But with better taste and ingredients?

[harsh spear]

same ingredients

[winged dome]

Fresher, with a new oven to bake everything in nicer too

[harsh spear]

Same old cake with a better crust and some sprinkles on top. Idk if ill buy it. Likely because there just arent many cakes that satisfy me. But im already so used to its taste.

Maybe is time for a diet 😄

[blissful perch]

Tbh a better analogy is an entirely new cake with the same colored frosting lol

Everything under the hood sounds like it’s being changed. But the overall “paint” is ark 1

[true fox]

Is there a canonical list of what will be changed in ASA? Or does one have to read all of the #announcements ?

[winged dome]

Past few crunches have most of the known details

[true fox]

I was replaying The Island to refresh my memory, and then I wondered if things like 'will note runs still work?'

[winged dome]

356 and 357 have the most actual changes listed

[true fox]

danke

Just seems like an opportunity to fix some of the more exploitable aspecs of maps

[split dove]

i hope note runs are no longer a thing lol, makes you skip early game even faster

[true fox]

I just tried a note run and hit 64 in <20 minutes

but I think i missed some. also, I went slow because I was not dumping points into my speed because I intended a playable character

which meant stops for food/water

Even a 1 hour note cooldown would force more play

[tropic forge]

seems you like your bobs whit thatch tec only 🤣

[winged dome]

All they really need to do is take out the burst of Exp for finding a note. 2x/4x exp for a short time is fine and helps with finishing late game level grinds, but even like 1000 exp early game is huge since the exp curve really doesn't kick in until the mid 80s

[true fox]

details are sparse, and there are 2 months to go

[tropic forge]

you mean "almost none details"

[ripe cedar]

on 1x late 60s is usually where it ends although if you were on singleplayer you would actually get less xp because that only gives 4x notes so you only get 4x xp and not 8x

[true fox]

Yeah. 64 is what I hit on officials

[tropic crag]

The experience curve in single is also different, no?

[ripe cedar]

oh yeah

I kinda completely forgot about that part as well

[tropic crag]

Understandable

Per level engram point rewards too iirc, you actually get more than one per level past 100, since you're solo lol

[true fox]

All this assumes officials will be relatively accurate to current rates

[tropic crag]

I absolutely do not see them changing the rates, unless they also change the way that the notes work (or hold some sort of poll over what the rates should be, which would be extremely misguided of them)

[blissful perch]

Realistically it could 2x hard capped across the board. Ideally it’s 0x (for notes)

[untold ingot]

I think they should lower the rates

[blissful perch]

Rates will likely never decrease

They may increase them though, especially breeding rates. Given the constant pressure for evo events

[untold ingot]

I think harvest rates should decrease, and bps should be nerfed

[blissful perch]

I doubt the former will happen, and I pray the latter happens

Dollie did mention at one point that many balance changes require a wipe, which ASA will provide. BP nerfs would certainly be part of that category of change

[untold ingot]

Hopefully lol, the current state of bps is ridiculous

[blissful perch]

It’s also the only way to address mutation stacking…even if the change is the one I like the least (nerfing base stats and base wild stat gains per point)

[true fox]

Assuming mutation stacking is not so ingrained in the culture that the game has adapted to and expects it

I’m trying to imagine some of these alpha boss fights without mutated Dinos

[worldly garden]

I wonder if they carry on with the usual EVOs or whether they'll re-work the whole thing. Perfect opportunity to try something different.

[untold ingot]

Some would be impossible lol

[stray elm]

A lot of them can be done with just really well leveled, 100% imprinted creatures.

[true fox]

I think some answers depend on how far out they see Ark2. I assume this quick cash grab is essentially all of us beta testing ark2 engine basics for them

[untold ingot]

I mean, the genesis 1 alpha can't

[blissful perch]

That’s already happened. The question is if WC is willing to sever ties in ASA (unlikely) or ark 2 (a possibility) and provide an alternate experience for late and end game players

[stray elm]

I did it with a group of friends without mutation stacking, if I recall.

[blissful perch]

Balancing boss stats and whatnot is a fairly easy task once mutations are taken care of

[stray elm]

Gen1's boss tames are more about holding off the horde of Corrupted-Avatars until you the player get enough keys.

[true fox]

I doubt we’ll see massive changes. But they could do a small rebalance so that overbred is not required. And then restrict overbreeding. But that can’t do the latter without the former. And I don’t think that’s in the cards.

[untold ingot]

On 1x rates on alpha? Using what?

[true fox]

If I had to guess; the only things changed will be new features they want to debug for ark2, and functional map changes necessary to make ue5 engine work with the map

[true fox]

It can be done with only well equipped survivors

[stray elm]

Don't remember the exact stats, but I believe we where using high ascended saddles (like 200%) and max wild-tamed tek-rexes.

Again, that fight is mostly on the players then the creatures.
Creatures are there to distract the horde, while you do the real job.

[untold ingot]

200% saddles is how you made it then. But thsts double the official cap

[winged dome]

200% saddles is like ... 50 armor. That's nothing

[stray elm]

We where on official settings.

It was 200% armor.

[untold ingot]

I am assuming he meant 200 armor.

[winged dome]

200% of 25 base armor is 50 armor 😂

[true fox]

Also don’t believe YouTube videos. Half that crap is private server with stupid rate tweaks

[stray elm]

I believe we traded it after another tribe found it.

Point is, you don't need absurd mutations for that boss, even on alpha.
As long as your tames can soak the damage, and your faster then the Corrupted avatars are, then you're good.

[winged dome]

Biggest problem is the Gigas, where armor and health mean nothing

[untold ingot]

The official cap is 124 for rexes. 200 is literally alonst double

[stray elm]

Yeah, and that's where you bolt it faster then a lightning bolt and get the boss fight over with.
It's a time-game.
The longer you fuck around, the faster you'll find out.

[stray elm]

Max armor on official is 300% for saddles, if I recall.
Just hella rare

[untold ingot]

No, 124 is the cap

[stray elm]

"Most saddles will revert to the 124 armor cap once the server resets. However if you craft a saddle and get above 124 armor you can put in on the dino and cryopod it and when the server resets the saddle will still remain above 124."
124 is the cap for server resets.

[untold ingot]

Unless they had a 5 year old BP, you can't get above 124 on official

Usually it caps while crafting too

[south lance]

saddles are cool

[untold ingot]

Saddles should be capped at like 50 or 60

As for doing gen1 alpha without tames on foot only, you have to be using completely capped gear with a lot of people.

[stray elm]

Okay, yeah, you're 100% right.
I was overexhaderating the saddle quality.
But I can still DM you the session where we did the CMC without mutations with months of farming on official settings.

Note: This was on Journey's Core.
Which was NeddyTheNoodles cluster that was had default settings, to recreate the feeling of official servers, but with actual moderation.

[untold ingot]

If you just send a dm of the rexes stats that's good enough

[stray elm]

It's an hour long video, so I don't know if he ever accesses their inventory.
I can DM it to you for you to see on your own.

[untold ingot]

Ah, yeah that works I guess lol

[blissful perch]

Agree that it’s uncertain

But the nice thing for ASA is health pools for PvE can be adjusted in response to changes made to BPs or mutations. My fear is that mutation stacking is maintained but the UI is made more favorable for it (since there’s NO debate that the current UI for breeding is outdated, buggy/misleading, and straight up near useless for adjusting players to mutation stacking), and instead all wild creatures and their fresh tamed stats will be nerfed hard to “accommodate” for bred stats

For ark 2 my hope is that another late/end game mechanic can wholly replace mutation stacking

[winged dome]

Perk stacking 😂

[untold ingot]

Or just having creatures not be broken lol

It makes sense for a player ridden Rex to beat a wild one most of the time, and maybe even a 2v1 agaisnt wild, but much past that and it just doesn't make sense for it to be a doable fight

[south lance]

i hope they stop caring about progress deletion

or care less*

only progress that seems valid to keep is character levels

tho ig even that could use scaling back depending on how changes elsewhere in the game work

[untold ingot]

I mean, player levels are the most op progress to keep

[true fox]

I’d love it if blueprints were like learned and the disappeared. Like “I know how to make this Uber saddle” but then I can’t pass on the BP. But that is a fantasy wish

[south lance]

eh tame lines are worse

[untold ingot]

Honestly though they aren't that much worse

A capped flak BP is more op than a capped line of most dinos

[south lance]

eh

sure maybe, but decent flak is much easier to obtain. Yeah capped is way rarer tho

[untold ingot]

Decent armor, like 400 dura 250 armor is good, but a capped BP is on a whole other level

[blissful perch]

I’d actually love that. More progress that can’t be stolen and is intrinsic to the character would be nice. Maybe have a split between personal (and permanent) and shared BPs

[south lance]

the cap on most items is just too high

[blissful perch]

Correct. That and BPs

[south lance]

i think capped flak is like 1500 armor/dura

which is the highest increase over prim of any item

15x

tames only get around 10x i think (225 tame + player levels)

[untold ingot]

It's like 496 armor and 1200+ dura.

[south lance]

oh ok

thats still the highest tho i think

[untold ingot]

There is no dura cap though

[south lance]

??

[untold ingot]

Hat is the highest pre gen2

Now there are more op flak than that

[true fox]

There is a dura cap on reboot but it is in fact quite high

[south lance]

so its just the probability distribution making higher dura than 1200 rare?

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I have seen way higher

[true fox]

Plus if tou have to take a work trip or vacation or something and miss a refresh you lose less

Things that encourage people to not refresh unused bases and pillars is good for community

But also encourage them to return to play

[south lance]

me 5 months of refreshing weekly 😌

[blissful perch]

I think ark should either lean more toward the rust style (get wiped and move on - you don’t lose much) or toward the MMO style (you have a lot of progress linked to your permanent character which is always “safe” as well as your world assets which can be attacked/killed/wiped)

[true fox]

Ideally the people -currently playing- should have the most game resources available to them including Dino’s spawns and open space

The latter. The former contorts games like rust to the point the play style doesn’t look anything like what they intend.

[true fox]

I’m years into this…. I just collapsed down to the last two maps I have Tek bases on.

[south lance]

rip

im just waiting until officials can be downloaded

wonder if theyll allow downloads for all servers

[untold ingot]

Why wouldn't they?

[blissful perch]

I’m down for the latter - it’s an entirely new niche to lean hard into the MMO survival game crossover imo

I just think WC hasn’t quite committed to it if that makes sense

[south lance]

they should, but i dont have any confidence in anything about how the downloads will work

[true fox]

I would like to see a unique ID system to prevent duping. But that is probably a bridge too far for ASA

[blissful perch]

I think shoring the codebase up will do a lot for common exploits

[untold ingot]

It would be hard to make a unique ID for each Dino. Well not hard to make, but hard to store, and it wouldn't necessarily stop duping unless they use some really strict databases

With thousands of players each having thousands of dinos and items and structures, making a unique ID for it all would be a huge database

[true fox]

Doesn't need to be for everything.

Just trasnferred items, and that ID could easily age out

[untold ingot]

That wouldn't exactly work

[velvet dirge]

that's the thing that slowly killed the game for me over the years. SPAM. Too easy to farm and breed. Losing stuff have no impact as everything come and go easily. It shouldn't be that hard to have an id if things were more rare. Hell mmorpgs have it since 30y ago or something lol

[untold ingot]

Uh, not 30 years ago lol.

The issue isn't that it's impossible to do, the issue is that it is an extreme amount of data that would need an id

[south lance]

^

[untold ingot]

And ark has way more data than older mmorpgs lol

[south lance]

probably billions of IDs

well actually idk

[velvet dirge]

apart from that I have no idea how they can prevent or stop kids from duping

its too easy to ddos a server. Plenty of "services"

[south lance]

constant access would be a pain maybe

but i dunno if the total dino count is actually too insane

probably not billions but tens of millions of tames

theres like what, around 1000 per player im guessing?

and a lot of them would be destroyed

killed in raids and stuff

[untold ingot]

The issue with id's is that it's not enough to have them just when it's transferring, because duping happens in the middle between upload and download. Getting rid of an ID during that time would defeat the purpose of having it

[untold ingot]

To stop duping with Id only it would take id's on all items and resource stacks too

[south lance]

that would be a pain

[untold ingot]

It would be a ridiculous amount of data, and wouldn't be efficient

[south lance]

that would easily hit a billion

several even

how hard would it be to run a server exclusively to manage that data

[velvet dirge]

Maybe a subscription official cluster with active admins watching over the cluster? I would pay for that... I rather have a payed quality service than a poor "free" one...

not p2w like some unnoficials.... Sub model

[untold ingot]

It's not hard. But it is challenging. Most databases struggle with constant queries when you hit a billion data points

[south lance]

itd have to somehow manage hundreds of queries a second

[untold ingot]

Thousands

[south lance]

do player inventories allow duping

all ik is that duping tends to involve something with server bugs but idk if certain inventories are worse about it

[untold ingot]

I don't know that

[south lance]

aight

[untold ingot]

What could be possible maybe is having each server have its own database of ids, and then a crossreferencing with a general transfer database. But I really don't see that helping

[mint swan]

When is ark 2 getting released

[south lance]

late 2024

[keen tundra]

daaaamn

[untold ingot]

As far as a subscription based official. Let's assume that there are 40k active official players and let's assume a $2 a month subscription. (because realistically much past that would be more than people would pay). In total that would gross like 960k per year. Let's assume(generously) that the admins get paid 50k a year. All told that would pay for probably less than 18 admins if all the money went into that. Do you get why that isn't hugely beneficial?

18 admins spread over thousands of servers doesn't really cut down on the load of tickets by a significant amount

I mean, it could work. But it's not likely

[untold ingot]

On the flip side, let's assume there are a million people who bought ark(numbers from steam 2015) and let's do a yearly dlc priced at 25 instead of 20. That is like 5 million dollars more. If 40% of thst were used on admins for official servers it would be double what a subscription would be able to do

[tropic crag]

A subscription at $2*, which is the silliest price I could think of for a sub to a moderated official cluster

[untold ingot]

Pick a different number

I picked 2 for no real reason. But it won't majorly change the principle

They won't make 10 a month, maybe just maybe they could get 4 or 5 without it flopping. But let's be real, at 5 dollars a month to play official, it takes 2 or 3 people to pay for an unofficial and run it themselves.

I don't think official is popular enough to justify it

If you have a different conclusion show me the math

Intentionally lowballed the salary just to make the point

[tropic forge]

i find it funny ppl that want subs on officials arent players there not even by a long shot

[verbal wind]

putting subs on official servers is a good way to empty official servers

[tropic forge]

and keep potencial new players at bay

[verbal jacinth]

I love that the newest announcement has the most amount of reactions on the 👎

[winged dome]

People being salty because they don't want others to be happy

[verbal jacinth]

No salt ??

Where salt ?

[tropic crag]

Oh boy, here come the incels...

[verbal jacinth]

You must be macho man

[crude dagger]

yo i love the gays, is bob gay? ill marry him

[verbal jacinth]

Yoooo bob squad

[crude dagger]

spread the gay bob love

[verbal jacinth]

Damn no gifs permitted

[winged dome]

You must be new here 😂

[verbal jacinth]

insert laughing bob gif

[crude dagger]

no, just never interact or talk

no point

[verbal jacinth]

Everyone takes opinions and stuff way too serious

[crude dagger]

i hope ark 2 will give dinos some balls

[thick tulip]

reptiles dont have balls tho...

[blissful perch]

Well if it ain’t the based opinion of the day. I support

[crude dagger]

sigh, here comes the cops, good bye

[blissful perch]

That’s disingenuous imo. Almost all MMOs (and even this discord) operate with a small group of paid employees managing a much larger group of volunteers

[ripe cedar]

Well at least give saber balls back

[thick tulip]

lol agreed

[untold ingot]

Okay, give me a better business model.

[blissful perch]

I just did. You replied to it

[untold ingot]

Having volunteers with admin power ingame for ark wouldn't be such a great idea imo unless they had some very strict logs

I don't deny that that could work, but it wouldn't be from a subscription based official

[blissful perch]

It would be no different from the 20+ years of volunteer admins that serve as the bedrock for many other multiplayer gaming experiences. What WC would gain from a paid subscription service is paid staff that can police the admins rather than the players

[thick tulip]

lol ark politics

[tropic forge]

than its snail corruption 🤣

[untold ingot]

My point was that it makes more money sense to up the cost for dlc slightly rather than have a paid subscription to use it.

[blissful perch]

The biggest benefit of the subscription is that it would be self sustaining financially

If the service does better -> the income is higher to invest in more adminship

[untold ingot]

I don't think it would be

[blissful perch]

If it’s worse, you contract

[verbal jacinth]

Everything is a bit of a cash grab these days weither the developers even realsie it or not, its not even fully their fault its how the industry is rn

[untold ingot]

I think people would quit official and play a free unofficial

[tropic forge]

or dont play at all

[blissful perch]

Officials would need a serious value add to be viable compared to unofficials, of that there’s no question

[untold ingot]

I mean most game companies work on very narrow margins. Sometimes what seems like a cash grab is just a necessary move.

[untold ingot]

Yeah, and I dont think a subscription service would do it

[verbal jacinth]

Ok that sounds intreating, what examples can u gimmie

[blissful perch]

Imo it’s very easy to imagine a major value add to ark 2 officials that comes in the form of a true MMO experience

[tropic forge]

MMO like WOW its the worst kind of cash grab there is since there's videogames

[untold ingot]

I don't see a game being marketed as an online multi-player and then having to pay to play said online multi-player after you already bought the game.

[blissful perch]

Right now official and a small unofficial cluster are almost identical: if you can get the true MMO scaling and experience baked in, you can justify the value add and thus cost

[untold ingot]

That's just asking for trouble, on topnofnthe fact that it's not the most efficient way to do it

[blissful perch]

WOW (unlike ASE) is 1.) still active after far more years of activity and 2.) is self sustaining rather than a net loss financially

[tropic forge]

they had to make ark and all dlc free of charge if they want to charge subs

[blissful perch]

Subscriptions for repeated services is basic finance

[tropic forge]

yeh cause ppl invest time and money in a lvl that in their heads stop playing now dosent cut for them its like they lost

[blissful perch]

You’re correct that DLC is in essence a subscription fee for ark. A soft one of course, but one nonetheless

[untold ingot]

In this case I don't see it helping.

[verbal jacinth]

an arrangement to receive something, typically a publication, regularly by paying in advance.

[untold ingot]

A dlc to me seems the most ethical, effective, and most value to a "subscription" service. Tacking another on in for just official would make people dislike it more

[blissful perch]

There’s an illusion of ethics here that isn’t real

You’re buying a service over time - paying for it over time is a normative and ethical option

[untold ingot]

Okay, you still haven't answered my original point.

[blissful perch]

Again - if you expect the bulk of your paying players to not use official (and thus not pay for a subscription), you’d want to cash your check with them by pitching paid content releases instead of offering it for free to subscribing players

[true fox]

I’d be happy to pay if it meant proper customer service and more engineering time fixing bugs

[blissful perch]

I don’t see a question unanswered. I see a lot of statements dissenting “I don’t see X”, but those claims don’t foster anything for me to follow up with

[untold ingot]

My original point was that a paid subscription costs players more, and brings less value than upping the cost of a dlc.

[tropic forge]

anyway, if wc would put subs on ark would be 20 bucks per month which would go 240 bucks per year on a game thats owner is snail games plus you have the wager system, just to remind that not everyone that plays ark lives on america that gets pay per week not month and those 240 bucks per year in a single game not everyone will see it as "the best option for ark"

[blissful perch]

I’d certainly consider it myself. And the assumption, indeed the requirement, is that there’s a major increase to service provided

[blissful perch]

Ok so I answered that

[untold ingot]

Okay, how much would you pay monthly for it?

[untold ingot]

Maybe I missed it

[blissful perch]

Here is the most recent one

[untold ingot]

Ah, yeah. Okay.

The concept of a subscription in general isn't a bad one, but for ark just because of how ark works, I don't think it would work or be beneficial

[blissful perch]

I think it could work, but it would require major changes we have no confirmation are being considered or under development

[verbal jacinth]

There is no player benafit whatsoever

[untold ingot]

It would need official to be more mainstream, and I doubt it will be

[blissful perch]

Players stand to gain BIG. The primary complaints I’ve seen from official players are lack of customer support and lack of server quality. A subscription that helps fund those two areas would be a great boon to official players

[blissful perch]

But THIS is the trade off I think WC is debating

[verbal jacinth]

But how would u know it means more cistomer support

[blissful perch]

Because a lack of it means a subscription is a dead on arrival idea

[verbal jacinth]

That wouldnt happen, it divdes the community conpletly, splits it vecause one side is more important than the other ????

What is more support anyway ???

[blissful perch]

If you pay even $0.01 a month and the officials are still as bad as ASE? Completely dead instantly

[blissful perch]

Not sure what you mean by “split”. Compared to the already present divide between official and unofficial in ark 1

[untold ingot]

If everyone played official (like everyone) then a subscription would make sense

[blissful perch]

Even a large chunk (75+%) would work

[verbal jacinth]

Like, if you give paying players more support ?? Whatever you mean by that, that means they are more important and get more "support" than players who dont pay and thus are seen as more important than other players and will lead to a divide

[tropic forge]

i have seen that on wow alot 🤣

[blissful perch]

If you’re paying directly for more support, you should get it. Nothing unfair about it. In fact it’s MORE fair, because currently if you play SP or unofficial your money sometimes goes to people and servers who manage officials (which you’ll never use)

[verbal jacinth]

Thats rediculous, what are u saying

[untold ingot]

Yes, maybe. Rn it's considerably more unofficial and sp

[blissful perch]

Correct. If that’s the trend ark 2 wants to take, a subscription is pointless and officials should be downscaled

My argument in favor of a subscription is entirely built on the premise that WC wants to expand official to be the primary mode of play

[verbal jacinth]

Basicaly pay us money and then pay us more if u want us to do our job, but wait pay us even more if you want us to do it better

[untold ingot]

Yeah, but I don't see that being the case

[untold ingot]

This is why I said it would have a bad rap lol

[blissful perch]

That’s fine. I’m simply posing a hypothetical model where it makes sense. My initial argument was backed on initial comments here saying official support is extremely poor

So the logical answer is “how do you divert more funding to officials”

[untold ingot]

Yep, and upping dlc cost is probably the best way rn, assuming that the structure of the game is simular

[verbal jacinth]

It shouldnt need fundings ?

[blissful perch]

Incorrect framing imo. You buy ark -> you bought the content of ark. You pay the subscription-> you’re paying for the service of always open servers and customer support on officials

[tropic forge]

come on tell us the truth, you already admit you dont care for official you barely play it so why you hoping official have subs if you dont play official? cause i can see if ark gets subs it wont have sp or unofficials it will be only official servers

[verbal jacinth]

Why pay for a service twice ?

When u buy the game ur promised the servers to play ?

Or am i delusional

[untold ingot]

Yes, people should just work for free.

[blissful perch]

Because I want all players to feel heard and am discussing possible remedies to their issues

[verbal jacinth]

XD i digress yall cant think outside ypur own mind

[blissful perch]

There are rampant complaints about cheating, spotty support, and poor performance for folks. The answer is to get more investment. So I posed a model that revolves around officials being the primary mode of play where they get more resources dedicated to them

[blissful perch]

Good question. The answer is that in my model you do NOT pay for the service when you buy the game

[untold ingot]

Is that the best you can come up with?

Because I don't immediately agree with you I must be narrow-minded?

[verbal jacinth]

I digress bro no point arguing it because ur a little upset

[blissful perch]

Here’s an example - if I buy COD, I do not get Xbox live for free

[untold ingot]

Come on you can do better lol🤣

[untold ingot]

Not really, I like arguing and debating. I rarely get upset

[verbal jacinth]

Ur not posing arguments just poking

[untold ingot]

Unless it's bruising 🤣

[tropic forge]

what issues? im 36y old there was never a issue for games whitout subs, thats what happen whit the MMO's that couple of whales start to invest and pay to win, there was never a issue when a game comes out whit online functions before nowdays every game wants to bring NFT's and subs to get more cash but aint invested on the game

[verbal jacinth]

Co ur a little offendedclearly

[untold ingot]

Lol what

[blissful perch]

@tropic forge right here

[untold ingot]

Ark official has a serious problem of being full of cheaters and minimal support. So yes there is a drastic issue

[tropic forge]

now if you ask me if wc did right whit 8 years of online servers from their part i would said it was too much

[blissful perch]

I’m heavily against pay to win, and deeply opposed to pay to progress mechanics. Neither of those are suggested in my model

[tropic forge]

but aint gonna be solve whit subs not a chance in hell

[blissful perch]

I argued for a way it could be

The alternative is either 1) financially non-viable in the mid to long term or 2) keep things as they are

[untold ingot]

That was my original point

[tropic forge]

like now ASA you pay 60 for ark and all previous dlc's but i already notice that some ppl thing the "new" dlcs are in that price too not aside to be purchase later

[blissful perch]

Only issue with a rise in dlc prices to offset losses on officials is that the investment is WAY better served on more development on future dlc

[tropic forge]

but we still dont know a thing about the major issues that cause so much problems on official are gonna be adress at all

[blissful perch]

It would represent an acceptable outcome for me, which is that official remains sort of “meh” prioritized, but it wouldn’t address the complaints I’ve seen imo

[untold ingot]

This is true, to a degree. It would all depend on how they manage jt

[blissful perch]

We know more than nothing. For example we know there’s a stupidly long ticket backlog

[tropic forge]

but youre forgeting that after 8 years officials being going down specially after the announce of ark 2 back when even gen2 wasent release ppl start to quit official and maybe join unofficial due to rates etc but at the beginning everyone that gets ark on start will be on officials and sp barely will have unofficals, i remember playing extinction when came out on ps4 and barely was any unofficials on ps4 side dont know about xbox or pc

[blissful perch]

Yes? Officials are a net loss, not an absolute loss

[tropic forge]

and you want subs on a game whit a owners that open region lock brought all that mess that fall on officials?

you really think was only couple of americans and europeans that brought all the cheats ddos and so on into officials?

who you really think was making real cash whit RMT on ark?

you want a link explaining what happen whit officials and all the cheaters? i can dm you

[true fox]

We do know some are different just because of engine upgrades. Like meshing

[true fox]

Maybe $5 or $10 like an MMO

[tropic forge]

im not talking about that at all

[untold ingot]

And you think people would pay that?

[tropic forge]

wow is charging almost 15 bucks per month

plus you have to pay for game base and dlcs that you want to play

[true fox]

Some might. Some won’t.

[untold ingot]

Most wont

[tropic crag]

15 USD is the standard for monthly subscription services in this day and age, yes

[true fox]

What do you base this on?

[tropic crag]

Complete conjecture lol, trust me, not worth talking to

[untold ingot]

Paying 60 for the game, and then 15 a month forever after to play official? People would just get their own unofficials

[tropic forge]

ppl already complain that have to pay for ASA much more if was a sub 🤣

[true fox]

Which is fine

[stray elm]

Nothing would be lost if official servers permanently shutted down. 🦛

[untold ingot]

Well, yes. But there most likely wouldnt be enough people to keep official going

[true fox]

But there are many ways to frame this. Plenty of games monetize without play to win mechanics

[untold ingot]

Well, yes. I still think that upping dlc cost would work better

[untold ingot]

🤣

[tropic crag]

Ah yes, let's make everyone pay for official, even that MAJORITY of the playerbase who will never touch it so much as once, great idea 🤡

[winged dome]

Never touching Ark1/Asc Officials, with or without a subscription. Likely very similar for Ark2

[true fox]

I don’t think anyone suggested that so it’s a bit of a straw man argument

[tropic crag]

He literally has on mulitple accounts suggested that very thing, wat

Raising prices of DLC that everyone will no doubt buy, even those that play not official, is exactly that

But ok

[blissful perch]

I’d say $15 a month for a $60 game is too much

[true fox]

Id be happy for some non competitive QOL improvements like maybe extending decay time

Others mentioned customer service etc

But I understand there are many different opinions

I’m excited enough for ASA that I’m doing an Island run through

[tropic forge]

i would be happy if they answers a couple this questions before release of ASA

All this questions is all thinking on pve side
1- as the pillar issue being solve? if so
1a- what wc as done to prevent griefing on pve?
1b- what wc done to prevent destruction of resources or monopolize by single tribe?
2- is official servers open to wide world or certain regions will be block?
3- do bosses still need trophies to start the fight everytime?
3a- if so what wc as done to prevent destruction of those dino spawns and any change of rate of spawns (spino, alpha reaper/basilisk)?
3b- or once you win the first fight that boss will becomes unlock to fight it whit no need to gather all the items again?
4- as any improves or changes on tribe management system?
5- any changes on raise timers on all dinos?
6- will race missions return on genesys maps?
6a- if so, will those count for the boss fight or just optional for those that wanna do it for fun?

[harsh spear]

uhm

why cant i react with emotes anymore ?

[winged dome]

Somebody got blocked 😂

[tropic crag]

If you get blocked, you can't react to the person that blocked you, so someone probably blocked you lol (I would know, I get blocked all time, by people that I've barely even seen chat, no less 😅 )

[weary tide]

👎

[true fox]

No asa for you?

But you will but ark2?

[untold ingot]

I mean, if you want to misinterpret everything I said sure go for it. My point was that that is a better business model than a subscription official. Because it is.

[solar osprey]

When is ark 2 coming

[tropic crag]

That is exactly what you said, I'm not misinterpreting anything lol. And your opinion is not the be all end all, it's just as subjective as anyone else's

[untold ingot]

... Lol, what. I am literally not advocating anything. My only point was that subscription official won't solve anything

So yes you are misinterpreting, or at best oversimplifying.

Call it subjective if you will, but when you do something more than criticize everyone else who talks I'll care 🤣🤣

[winged dome]

End of 2024

[solar osprey]

Wtf ant no way

[serene onyx]

2025

[untold ingot]

It's 2 month old news at this point

[serene onyx]

Idk how you haven’t heard of that yet lol

[tropic crag]

"My point was that it makes more money sense to up the cost for dlc slightly rather than have a paid subscription to use it."

"My original point was that a paid subscription costs players more, and brings less value than upping the cost of a dlc."

"Well, yes. I still think that upping dlc cost would work better"

How is this not what you said? Increasing the cost of DLCs to help fund official moderation instead of a subscription was the point, was it not? But maybe I am misinterpreting your exact words, who knows 🤷‍♂️ . Let me know when you're done lying about what your actual point is, and not just arguing for the sake of arguing

[untold ingot]

It was a comparison...

Debunking the myth that a paid subscription would solve the ticket response issue

I thought that was obvious

Either way, I don't particularly care

[thorny sand]

ark arguments go brrrr

[untold ingot]

I'm not usually like that lol

[thorny sand]

understandable, i know what you mean

[gusty ermine]

Ark ASA news tomorrow? 👀

[blissful perch]

little odd to rule my argument as a myth, given the same level of certainty is being used as "debunking" evidence, especially since the appearance of your statement appeared more to be a counterpoint than a hard debunk. Cprrect that it seems there was a mild misinterpretation on Bruising's part

[harsh spear]

na i cant react to anyone including you

[tropic crag]

Don't know what to tell ya then, sometimes discord be wacky like that

[vocal hedge]

im just waiting for ark 2

yea

[tribal chasm]

I would be interested to see some more guided balance in Ark 1.5 or 2.0, where you know...they have a rough idea of how much resources can be gathered per hour, how difficult it is to obtain various items etc. Right now everything feels relatively infinite and worthless, due to various factors such as rate increases/new xpacs.

2023 Ark is vastly different from the earlier days -- infinite resources more or less, infinite dinos due to cryopods / breeding...I dunno there is no difficulty or resource management anymore, it's all just ridiculous easy or infinite

I would be disappointed if Ark 2 started off as easy as Gen2 for example

[tropic forge]

gen 2 was the last wc dlc so it was kind of a send off gift but when you said there's no difficulty due to infinite resources you clearly dint end up whit ppl so greedy that they would clean the asteroids before you had a chance to get 5k of shards, now making resources even more limited it would invite more greedy and making more tribes trying to monopolize certain resources so they could profit from that by preventing others from having them and by doing so more RMT influence grow whit it

[tropic crag]

That is the most extreme, ridiculous reason to not make resources more scarce lmao

[tropic forge]

i just remember there was a rag server i played on ps4 that one tribe alone monopolize all the oil pumps and they would sell extreme high prices plus they pillar the entire server trying to make their own server (dont know how that end up but it last at least a couple of months)

[tropic crag]

Leave it to Fox though to jump to the extremes, reliably 😂

[harsh spear]

im sick of monopolizing base locations. first who gets it has all the advantage and others hardly have any chance to compete. I played on many new map releases and it happens every single time.

or just a new pvp mode

[tropic forge]

yeh i guess on pvp monopolize hits even harder

[untold ingot]

Monopolizing resources is an issue on lots of maps other than gen2. But I do think that monopolies on base locations is a moderate issue for pvp. But the fix is to just remove cspin, dives, grapple glitches and platform saddles. For pve a base location monopoly can't be fixed other than how gen1 did it, and there was an overwhelming negative response to that

[untold ingot]

Your argument was that if ark changed the way it plays and has more people play official (convenience, being better, etc) then a subscription would work. And I do agree with that. If ark stays the same as now, with the majority of players being sp or unofficial (which will likely be the case) then a subscription helping is a myth.

[untold ingot]

Leave it to bruising to add nothing to the conversation, reliably 🤣

[blissful perch]

Lead with this then…since that’s not the direct content of the statement I responded to 😅

As for resources…quit trying to make them all scarce

[untold ingot]

I mean, the comment you replied to was one I made to bruising, and I put less effort into making those responses 😅

I mean, personally I think resources should be scarce. On a harvest rate side of things, not necessarily a location thing

I would rather see a peppering of rarer resources around the map and just have it be technology locked to harvest.

[blissful perch]

I’m also of the opinion that harvesting nodes should be rather abundant

[glass bison]

yo

[untold ingot]

I mean, like irl there is salt in the ocean but you can't just go hit it with a pickaxe to get it.

[tropic forge]

and need of protection cause a simple foundation whit a ladder on it destroys a large amount of resources or some genius decides to build on top of it just because

[untold ingot]

If nodes are more spread out then you wouldn't need to protect individual ones.

The issue with making higher tier resources readily available is that it would make progress feel too quick unless there was some other bottleneck

[harsh spear]

fix is to remove anything that is cave related or similar to a cave to an unbuildable zone

[untold ingot]

Removing caves isn't a fix, making caves not viable base locations might be

[tribal chasm]

I think they had plans to adjust that already in 1.5, I can't remember the blog

[untold ingot]

Is that the caves or resources?

[tropic forge]

true but still you can destroy them, how many times i have see on early days some pvp cry babies going to my pve server acting tough and placing foundations everywhere just for fun, there's a reason why some pillar a large area and resources on pve and thats one of the main reasons but also forces that person to make trips just to reset timers if they are busy whit other servers

[untold ingot]

Something I would like to see is a system kind of like Conans where higher tier resources have to be crafted from a variety of harder to obtain things. And have more of a chemistry type tier for the endgame stuff so you actually have to have significant infrastructure to get it.

[tribal chasm]

"Balance passes (e.g. Cave Entrances, MEKs, Aberration Creatures, more breedable creatures, etc)" from:
https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/articles.html/community-crunch-355-ark-roadmap-evo-event-and-more-r2075/

[harsh spear]

thats what im saying

[untold ingot]

Right. Yeah I thi k it is a much needed fix

[blissful perch]

The broken progression system and two tiered harvesting tool system is partly to blame imo

[untold ingot]

I do agree lol

[blissful perch]

At level 21 (iirc) you have access to all the end game resources

[untold ingot]

Being able to harvest endgame resources with an early game item is an issue imo

[tropic forge]

well you can farm end game resources at lvl 1 just by someone give to you a metal pick

[blissful perch]

Metal picks aren’t early game beyond their unlock level is the issue. They’re functionally a later game item

[untold ingot]

Of course, making people have to have infrastructure to get endgame resources could pose a problem for pvp if travel speed remains ridiculously high

[tropic forge]

theres no lvl lock for anything but building it

[blissful perch]

I’m kinda of the belief that you shouldn’t be able to equip anything you’re not at the level to unlock

[tropic forge]

yup

[blissful perch]

Would be nice to extend that to creatures too, but that’s a hotter take

[untold ingot]

I mean they did that with Astros

The issue with that would be having to put a level lock on all the tames with no saddles. That might be a sore point with people

[tropic forge]

and maybe force ppl to spend points wisely to use certain items that could easely defeat that pvp tons of points in speed

[harsh spear]

they say cave entrances in regards to balancing so im guessing that they will leave caves buildable but make them more attackable, which is a bad decision imo. caves are always superior and people also block access to artifcats or other important stuff

[untold ingot]

Speed is an issue because people spend time offline, and you can't really defend an early game base offline

It just makes it easier to find

You have people come online, spend an hour or 2 on each map checking every location, and then moving to another map to do the same just because of how fast travel is.

[tropic forge]

on pve i just put points on weight healt and the rest i spread around

[untold ingot]

They don't have to online raid anyone, they just offline the same base spots over and over again

[tribal chasm]

I think MTS pvp servers show that caves are quite vulnerable when they aren't actual crawl points, easy to kamikaze and/or use a stego

[blissful perch]

Artifact caves should imo never be buildable

[harsh spear]

yea thats also so annoying in ark. you cant raid anyone that is online because they will just popcorn everything. the only reason you would online raid is to get the base location

[untold ingot]

As it sits any base that is flier accessible is an arb farm lol

[untold ingot]

In pve yes. In pvp I have less of an issue with that, but having a cave as strong as ice or labyrinth cave is an issue

The reason I think it isn't an issue in pvp (for Asa) is because the focus of pvp isn't to run caves for artifacts, it's to pvp against people. If someone is built in a cave, you raid them, or trade with them. It basically forces an economy that wouldn't normally be there. It is only an issue in pve and maybe smalls if smalls were higher pop and less servers

[harsh spear]

if you are on a new map there is 3 months no travelling. so if someone claims an artifact cave you cant do the bossfight for 3 months

[untold ingot]

This is true I guess. Which is why it's a forced economy. Make friends with the people built there and work out a trade. Generally they will

[tropic forge]

on pvp thats a blade edge sword, you might be feeding the beast thats gonna eat you later

[untold ingot]

I mean, yes. Or you might eat them.

[tropic forge]

if they actually pull a more stable ark and better servers i would says making missions insted of artifacts for boss fights would be the better way

just pls no more race missions thats stupid

[untold ingot]

I mean, gen2 having missions the way it does actually does improve the endgame imo. It forces more effort to get the the bosses which is a plus imo.

I don't think missions in the same way will be tenable for a primative based game like ark2, but they might surprise us lol

[tropic forge]

its a mission they can dictate what you need to do like hunt on foot collect herbs while fighting dilos etc

[harsh spear]

there is many reasons why caves are superior. and there just arent many caves. so if all caves are taken you cant build on that server because you would make yourself too vulnerable.
F.e. you need to defend 4 sides building in the open, good caves only 1 side. so thats 4x more turrets. also you dont see how much a cave is build out. if someone is in the open you see what they have and prepare for that etc.

cant get sniped / griefed, a lot of space for breeding, a lot of time until the attacker actually get to your base

also very imporant, you cant get attacked from titans

titans can easily wipe any offline base by themself

[tribal chasm]

Even pre-cryopod era (and perhaps tek) the only viable base spots was on the top of mountains/isolated land masses
it's a tricky one 😮

[harsh spear]

i liked that meta a lot more though because you had a lot more good base locations available

pre cryopod was also way more immersive , having all your tames around your base and bases near water so you have your water tames near

[blissful perch]

Adding more entrances to caves also nerfs them substantially

Since it’s no longer a single choke point

[blissful perch]

I agree with fox. We live in wild times

[tribal chasm]

I kind of wish they had a dedicated ASA channel, maybe they will make one closer to release date

[untold ingot]

I mean the 6x damage in Caves makes metal like paper and tek worse

[tribal chasm]

It's not a subject discussed much, but stegos/healing in general, it is pretty bad right now for raiding balance. Even if ASA comes out with no other maps, stegos+daeodon will be able to soak entire bases with no challenge. Thinking back to the original 2015-2016 era, you couldn't soak turrets nearly as easily, and healing options were limited

[untold ingot]

I mean, if turrets remain as strong as now, and mutation capping is nerfed, it'll actually be worse lol. It only takes like 30 turrets to kill a capped stego rn.which is why most people don't actually soak whole bases anymore

[verbal wind]

add power drain on generators? like it can only power so many things?

[untold ingot]

I mean, that would work

As a feature

I don't see how it would drastically change pvp though

[verbal wind]

eh, would make it harder to have those massive turret towers

[untold ingot]

Not really no

[blissful perch]

Lot of that is due to mutation stacking

In 2015-2016, stats across the board were lower…and imo more fun. Only downside at the time was getting a tame took way tf too long

[tribal chasm]

Nawww it's the base mechanics kinda, stegos just OP.
When Gen2 came out, I soaked a tribe's 100 capped turrets wall (who also had ammo box refilling) in a few hours. I don't usually offline, but this was an enemy so...
I digress, point being it was just cycling 3 very bad stegos, and swapping them out/healing them when needed. No mutations required

[blissful perch]

spam is an issue too ofc

without cryopods enabling you to bring so many tames to a soak spot quickly...maybe it would feel better

[harsh spear]

i think mutation stacking only exists because its a bug but they never fixed it

[blissful perch]

that's correct - it was a bug and WC didn't want to wipe everyone's tames to fix it

the number of render distance related bugs/exploits is pretty bad

[timid viper]

They could've fixed it when they swapped from legacy cluster

[harsh spear]

lol my comment got deleted

someone is watching

[fallow niche]

Please don't share content that isn't intended, #rules 1.7 tyty

[blissful perch]

They could have. But by then it was ingrained as a game mechanic

The bug accidentally provided ark with an endgame RPG mechanic that captured an entire playerbase who sought that type of gameplay. It should be rectified for the myriad reasons I’ve said over the years, but there’s an argument I begrudgingly accept for it being in ASE

[timid viper]

We're talking about stacking mutations to the point of getting dinos with 253 points in a single stat right?

That's the main problem with official, eventually you cap out on things to do and newbies are too far behind. That's the biggest appeal for ASA to me is a fresh wiped official

Would be nice to get rid of or reduce transfer timers 👀

[blissful perch]

We’re talking about that yes 👍

[blissful perch]

You mean delay between uploads/downloads, or the amount of time stuff can be cloud stored?

[timid viper]

For ascended*

The delay between transferring which I know they put in to fight duping but it makes official harder to swallow

I played official from legacy until aberration and recently have been on unofficial because can't get back into official and no timers is nice af. But I think I'm getting off topic for this channel so I digress

[blissful perch]

I see this as highly on topic

Transfer delays imo are a bandaid to an underlying issue - so asa or ark 2 should in theory be able to remove the delay if the underlying issue is addressed another way

[timid viper]

That would be a huge QOL imo

[harsh spear]

id prefer no transfers ( only empty character ) at all and every server be for itself

[blissful perch]

I’m torn on the issue. I think my preference is for servers to work kinda like Ab did for a long time - story maps should only allow “local” tames to be transferred in

Bringing drakes and other local stuff between Ab servers imo is a good way to ensure that a server alpha doesn’t just rule uncontested forever…without totally crapping on AB’s natural map balance and experience with stuff like manas and stalkers

[blissful perch]

To return to this as well - I think mutation stacking represents the single largest shift in experience ASE had. A shift from “get what you get, build up and get knocked down, tame what’s around and put it straight to use” to “sit in a base and breed or hope you can trade/steal someone else’s progress so you can get creatures 500+% stronger than their fresh tamed/wild counterparts.” It single-handedly altered the game’s appeal to rpg stat based gameplay than pure survivals…and the community often reflects that

[harsh spear]

pretty sure before you could transfer, pvp servers used to be way more friendly and people actually helped each other instead of fighting themself constantly. this transffering brought this whole, you cant trust anyone vibe, because there is now constantly new tribes out of nowhere that in combination with cryopods can wipe you in an instant.

[blissful perch]

Iirc it was extremely server dependent

[harsh spear]

yea but that was cool

[blissful perch]

I’m kinda eh on it. The end result is it got stale for people who only played on one server with the same actors

And your progress being locked in one spot sort of forced your hand to stay there even if it was dull

[timid viper]

Every server for itself would make local alphas eventually become unbeatable. They do have clusters where you can only xfer character but I think main cluster needs regular transfer otherwise local alphas stay king and no real wars can happen

[harsh spear]

yea but thats why i think you should only be able to transfer your empty character

[timid viper]

Then it becomes a PVE server for the alphas until they eventually quit

[blissful perch]

I’m interested in map specific metas more than I am in “one server” specific experiences

Especially given the low server population caps and soft MMO nature of ark, I think you’re gonna need some form of transfer for creatures and items

[harsh spear]

its true that it would give more power to the alpha, but thats mainly an issue because of broken cave locations. and its an issue no matter if you have transfers or not

[blissful perch]

Broken cave issues mean it’s quicker, easier, and safer to alpha

It doesn’t really change the reality that eventually an alpha will run the server…and without the threat of other server alphas raiding them, they have 0 real risks if they practice basic map sweeps

[harsh spear]

in old ark we used taming rafts, pulled creatures on the raft, knock em out and drive back to base with it ( base near water ).

[blissful perch]

I’m lost on how that relates to my previous message

[timid viper]

It took ark a few years to get to the point of you can't go anywhere without being completely outclassed. No item/dino transfers just puts a shorter timeline on each servers lifespan. And PvP would be exclusively bob hunting in all the obvious places on your own server

[harsh spear]

the one before that you said "i think youre gonna need some form of transfer for creatures and items". and this is my answer to this.

[winged dome]

Between maps, per the previous comments and discussion

[blissful perch]

how does that deal with stagnent alphas?

it sounds to me more like a way to work around no cryopods

[harsh spear]

well if the alpha think they need to wipe everyone and then play pve they dig their own grave cuz it wont be fun without any enemys

also you can be sneaky and still contest them unless the broken cave spots still remain in asa

without server travels it feels like you are actually constantly progressing and have a chance to exist. on current ark small tribes if you start building anywhere you just get wiped because there is constanly people scouting for things to raid since raiding is a fun thing to do

ive been in some established tribes and all they do is scout for things to raid in other servers while being in an allied server that notifys everyone via discord if someone is being attacked.

[tribal chasm]

Actually if they implement some sort of tribe log watcher for 1.5 or 2.0...would be interesting, rather than having people use 3rd party methods

kind of like how I think Trip Wire Alarms (?) can be sent to your email or something currently

[harsh spear]

i actually enjoy being the underdog but current ark is unbearable. and i remember how it was pre-transfer.

i agree tribe log watcher would be nice

[blissful perch]

Oh god that would be so bad lol please tell me that’s not real

[tribal chasm]

https://ark.wiki.gg/wiki/243.0
"New Mechanic: Custom Tripwire Alarm Notifications via SurviveTheArk.com (E-mail and Forum). Optionally Tribes can post to arbritrary URL, if they have a custom system! Now if someone's raiding your base, you can get on top of it! ;)"

[blissful perch]

Wrong audience perhaps, but ark should never be trying to alert me about ingame activity while I’m intentionally not playing it

I shouldn’t feel obligated to use such a tool either is the point

Then again, I suppose ark PvP will always have a “game as a full time job” vibe for some folks

[tribal chasm]

They could take a look at the CrossArk era from 2016-2017, and early small tribes (pre Extinction) and see why it worked so well, at least for keeping beginners alive a lot longer. A few turrets on a cliff was like...very few people would actually raid that. Bringing raiding dinos all that way, or downloading a quetzal etc.
Not the same for the mega-tribe Officials at that time, obviously. But worked well for Smalls + Cross Arks

[harsh spear]

i get your point but most people try to offline. and you dont want all your hours spent go to wayste. so knowing if you currently get attacked is fair. and people already have that knowledge available using bots

[blissful perch]

The question becomes how to protect a certain amount of progress so people can do things like work and sleep and still feel like they can have fun. I think it’s possible for a game like ark

[harsh spear]

i didnt even know that tripwire alarm trap notifys via email but it seems like a poor solution cuz im guessing you could just avoid them as a raider. parasaur notifications would be more valuable.

[harsh spear]

yea i asked myself this question many times but i can never come to a conclusion im happy with.

[blissful perch]

It would be a different game than the current ark

It’s also a challenge all games in the rust ark conan etc space are struggling with imo. The solution as far as I’ve seen it is to let official PvP be played by huge groups led by all day players (and the rest are also all day players) and have unofficials available for people who can’t keep up

But (politely ofc) no game should be using psychological manipulation to obligate people to play their game all day

[winged dome]

Maybe a small tribe-owned instance with a hard capped build limit? No breeding within so its not a main base replacement, and a build limit would hopefully prevent it from being used as a permanent safe mass storage

[blissful perch]

I think it’s an option

The fact of the matter is you can’t have both 1.) the ability to take anything from anyone at any time and 2.) the accessibility needed for people to live life outside the game

Many PvP games are either 1) always “on” but with defined start and end times (think COD, overwatch, etc) or are 2) places where PvP is always active but the player chooses when to enter and exit those spaces (RuneScape for example)

Having an always on PvP and always being “at risk” forces people psychologically to either accept constant loss of progress (a severely negative experience for most people…nobody likes futility) or be around constantly to ensure your progress is safe (which causes ark to occupy way too much mental and temporal real estate for it being a game)

[winged dome]

OW/CoD have zero risk in PvP - if there was, or you lost progress in those games then they probably wouldn't be nearly as popular.

Runescape imo is a pretty good model imo. Clearly defined zones of high risk (also bringing high reward in the sense of unique items/bosses, better resource placement, ect) so entering PvP is a choice. Even if you do enter, as long as you don't attack anyone then your 3 highest value items are safe. If you do attack, then every item is forfeit if you lose (with a few exceptions for untradeables, ect but the victor will get an equivalent cash payout as compensation so they're not 'free')

[blissful perch]

A correct representation of what I see as the two valid models for accessible PvP

[winged dome]

Ah, gotcha. Point was for being accessable

[blissful perch]

Correct. In both models a noob gets dunked on by a good player

But a noob doesn’t have to worry about choosing sleep over the game - if they want to get better they do so at their pace and their progress is protected while offline

You could even take a model like Eve - outside the hangar and the safe systems it’s a free for all. BUT the hangar is safe. Can’t be touched there or offline

I know some faction assets (which doesn’t directly impact most normal players iirc) are always at risk, but that’s another topic entirely

[harsh spear]

what if you had to announce your raid f.e. you go to a base and initiate the raid, from then you have to wait 24 hour which will give the defender the information and then you are able to attack for a certain time and then its on cooldown. It would have this mindgame of do i move or stay here, maybe they are just bluffing.

[blissful perch]

WC would need to 1) define the location which would be “the raid” 2) anticipate all the possible issues that could lead to (for example people spamming it or sneaking around the intended requirement) 3) it doesn’t really solve the problem, which is that both players aren’t consenting to PvP

[winged dome]

Up to 24 hours' time to move all valuables somewhere safer/protected and the raid itself is just for the location

[blissful perch]

I’m thinking broader tbh Zen

[harsh spear]

"the raid" could affect all structures from tribe 1 via attacker tribe 2. wdym with sneaking or spamming ?. it does semi-consent since the defender now has a time frame where they need to defend, but if they defended for the attack-time ( lets say max 2 hours ) they can sleep in peace xD

[blissful perch]

The defender has 24 hours to log on. That’s… not quite consent

It’s advance warning, and I like the creativity, but it’s not quite the same as consent here. Take RuneScape. You have to 1) log in and 2) choose to enter a PvP enabled zone. Both actions signal 1) consent to play the game and 2) consent to take on the risks of PvP

[winged dome]

^other players are consenting to the same risks, so PvP is always mutually consented (in spirit, some players just try to complete what they want in PvP zones without attacking anyone - but some of their items will always be at risk regardless)

[blissful perch]

They consent to the risk, not the combat lol

That’s kinda all you can ask for in that case though - otherwise people would see someone decked out and be like “nope” and nobody would PvP

It would be HUGE if those floating islands we saw in the build crunch were people’s “hangars” or RuneScape houses/banks

[winged dome]

That would be pretty dope. I'm a sucker for player owned instances

[harsh spear]

i feel like most people that play pvp are online once every day so having this advanced warning would be helpful or whats your opinion about it ?

[tribal chasm]

False alarms are already a thing, people purposely blowing up enemy tribe spam, or fake raiding (throwing a turtle), then it becomes a game of 'when is the real attack coming?'

[winged dome]

Ehh ... Conceptually its alright, but again it kinda leans towards 'Ark as a job', or worrying about a game even when not playing it

[tribal chasm]

so I don't think the 24 hour thing would work well, if anything it would be more torturous than currently

[harsh spear]

ok. well played owned instances would be abused to the max and the most valuable stuff would be stored there, so then there is the question what is there left to pvp for. idk i think there just isnt this perfect solution for a game like ark . freedom of building whereever and doing whatever has its cost

[winged dome]

If player instances can be properly balanced then I think they would be a welcome addition. Maybe impose storage container caps, or cryo caps so they're not near-infinite storage, and prevent breeding within so they aren't a permanent replacement for a main base

That way some items and progress can be safely stored, but the more you progress then more you'll need to risk outside the safety

[harsh spear]

people would use alt accounts to mass store stuff and use at their will, which would be a new problem for raiding

[winged dome]

Could be tribe-owned, and need a certain number of tribemates to actually access them? Apes Bobs together, strong

[harsh spear]

doesnt matter as long as cryopods exist

[winged dome]

We don't know if they will in Ark2

[blissful perch]

It’s self selecting - if you aren’t online every day (or almost all hours every day) you won’t play PvP because you’re too likely to just get wiped

[harsh spear]

true

[blissful perch]

“Abused” isn’t really correct here imo. It’s MEANT to store the most valuable stuff

[harsh spear]

yea and people would min/max the f out of it

[blissful perch]

Players can choose to risk more valuable stuff if they want to leverage that advantage. For example if you bring really expensive gear out to PvP and you smoke people with worse gear…you’re risking valuable stuff but you’re gaining a lot more loot

[harsh spear]

they would just prebuild bases and store them so if they get wiped they insta rebuild

[blissful perch]

Wiping imo would be less of a core mechanic in this new model

[harsh spear]

then whats this model about, might as well play pve

[blissful perch]

Since you’re correct that with instances storage/areas it means you can’t actually permanently drive someone out of the game (which imo is good…because people shouldn’t aim to remove other players)

I find pvp shines bright when people play to experience pvp

In ark and games like it, there’s a perverse incentive to pvp with the goal of driving players (and thus the pvp they generate) OUT of the game

The end goal of total safety many people strive for actually kills the game they enjoyed

[winged dome]

PvP to PvE 😂

Wait, then why do so many PvP players shit on PvE? 🤔

[blissful perch]

To be clear this is a valid question

The move is to put PvP, actual player versus player combat and gameplay, at the top of the experience. The gameplay loop should promote people getting involved in the scene and feeling like they want to participate in it

[harsh spear]

if you play pvp your incentive is to participate in it. its just not at the times where you want to

[blissful perch]

Your incentive is to drive everyone else away from it

You “win” ark (if you want to say there’s a win condition) when nobody is able to raid you. Least that’s my perception

[harsh spear]

yea youre right

[blissful perch]

I can’t blame the players btw for that sort of behavior - it’s baked into the game

[winged dome]

PvPers mad because PvE win the game before them 😂

[blissful perch]

The more of a gap between established and new players -> the safer established players are and the happier they are (which is likely why there’s tons of pushback when that stuff is scaled back or nerfed)

[blissful perch]

I keep trying to tell people PvP has an extremely terrible (gameplay wise) win condition…at least PvE is the boss

Not to say every game needs a singular win condition…but a win condition at minimum should promote and support a growing playerbase

[harsh spear]

for me pve is just way too easy and kinda boring. idk i feel that pvp is part of ark. facing off against each other with massive dinosaurs, thats cool, in theory. but the way its designed is indeed destructive.

maybe instanced pvp

[untold ingot]

Pvp doesn't need a win condition either

Unless that condition is winning a raid.

Usually people play it for the experience

[blissful perch]

I agree completely with this perspective as a valid desire

A few hours every day as defined by a game is stretching it. It’s still not true player consent. Finding no lifers and riding off them ofc doesn’t resolve the issue of encouraging no life gaming

[untold ingot]

I do agree instanced pvp has its perks. But I don't know that it would hold people's attention for ark for very long.

[blissful perch]

I think ASA sotf will be a great experiment in the attractiveness of instanced PvP. Idk how popular it’ll be, but it’s certainly imo a great thing to test as a new direction for the format that’s a bit more palatable for a broader audience

[untold ingot]

I think sotf appeals to a different group than normal ark pvp does

[blissful perch]

It didn’t used to but I agree that’s currently the case

Then again I hope by ark 2 there’s a branch of the playerbase that’s simply NOT catered to in a 1:1 fashion

[untold ingot]

I mean they do say it isn't for everyone, but they haven't 100% clarified which someone's get left ou5

[blissful perch]

We know the tek bois are out

People who like LMB combat are out

[untold ingot]

We know that the tek look of things is out, but you can have the same functionality as tek with prim looking models

[harsh spear]

lmb?

[blissful perch]

PvP should focus more on the actual combat between players imo, but perhaps ark 2 will instead have “standard” be some sort of raid or siege heavy gameplay and have sotf for the foot PvP enjoyers

[blissful perch]

Left mouse button

[untold ingot]

Sieges in games typically don't work that well

[blissful perch]

QoL wise yes. But if they somehow do the gymnastics needed to get a Jetpack, tek rifle, etc reclassed to be primitive, it’s gonna go poorly

[blissful perch]

Ark 1 PvP is mostly sieges?? At least at the alpha/mega level

[harsh spear]

hm pve structures but pvp on players & creatures could be interesting

[blissful perch]

A strong pvpve mode would really hit the spot for me

However I’d also find it fun to play faction based siege gameplay. You have faction leaders and people join up on a faction and play offense or defense

You consolidate everyone on a server onto one of 2-4 teams, and let people duke it out over however many key points on the map -> whoever has the most at the end of the season wins. That way players can come and go on a dynamic war ground

[winged dome]

Cringe Shinehorn Lovers vs Chad Bulbdog Enthusiasts

[harsh spear]

yea also sounds interesting but that would be a new game imo

[blissful perch]

Luckily that’s what ark 2 is

(I do get the point ofc)

Then again…my purpose in this chat is to brainstorm and poke around in the world of ark game design. Seeing ark 2 is willing to make some radical changes to the ark script means we can afford to get creative with things that make a totally new game with the same core of surviving and taming

[harsh spear]

speaking of taming, i kinda like the approach far cry primal has, at least for wolve like creatures

[blissful perch]

The bait and pet strat lol?

[harsh spear]

and the shhh 😄

[blissful perch]

On paper I think trust with a wild creature to tame it is so damn cool. Stuff like amarga

[untold ingot]

The idea of pve structures in pvp only works if devs make the structures. Because give players the ability to make pve structures on pvp, and I guarantee that bases will be unraidable.

There are two basic ways to have bases for pvp. You can have really durable structures that are expensive to craft and expensive to make (rust) or structures thst are cheap and easy to break (ark)

[harsh spear]

but thats the point of it, bases are unraidable, you can only pvp via killing each other and then getting the loot from dead bodies

[untold ingot]

That'll die fast

[blissful perch]

Not for certain

[harsh spear]

i dont think so. i think a lot of pve players would swap to this instead

[blissful perch]

If for example it’s a dark and darker style of gameplay where there’s PvE zones in which the gameplay is PvP combat I could see it working

Obviously dev made structures that players are tasked with defending and attacking is another option

[tropic forge]

you know if a newbie reads this he/she will thing that you work on wc right

[blissful perch]

That would be amusing given my discord role and speculative approach with heavy difference to WC 😅

Not to ark 1. But we’re discussing alternate modes of play - and a DaD mode of play is certainly feasible as an ark 2 PvP format

[blissful perch]

Gotta remember that ASA is the format for people who want ark 1

While it’s true that I suspect there won’t be a major change away from open sandbox format for official PvP in ark 2, there’s a lot of room for potential alternate modes to be considered in ark 2’s lifetime

[vapid panther]

I wouldn't mind an ESO style. PVE world but you can challenge players. And then a separate map anyone can go to for pvp.

[true fox]

Separate map like bosses for pvp sounds fun

[blissful perch]

Can you elaborate a bit more?

[true fox]

I mean we have the ability to transport selected survivors to an instances sub map for boss fights. Doesn’t seem too much of a reach to let some people jump into a pvp arena

[thick tulip]

oof that rhynio...RIP balance lol

[verbal wind]

yeah, wc needs to learn that making it complicated to tame doesn't make it balanced

[junior valley]

Hello, the server is down?

[winged dome]

You got access to Ark2 servers early? How?

[stray elm]

Balanced, no.
But it's more fun then sitting on your ass for 20+ minutes doing nothing to a knocked out tame

[young blaze]

Never knew

[junior valley]

sorry i got the wrong group

[potent hull]

do you think the new dino out now will com to asa to

[verbal wind]

i assume it will

[potent hull]

i am hearing the new dino is out now

[verbal wind]

kind of a waste to do all that work for 2 months of game

[thick tulip]

no reason it wouldnt

[potent hull]

the video of the new dino look good

[thick tulip]

so OP though. the game is already unbalanced af

[verbal wind]

now to watch pvp implode

[potent hull]

but i my be to op to start with bug my be with it

ho now what will happin

all i no is i am whating for asa old ark is buge and not good to play on rat now

[blissful perch]

With near 100% certainty

I’m down with the standard for an ark creature being higher - which this new one seems to be. Little worried about everything being stupidly strong…since I’m always of the mindset that player power should be scaled down to match the environment rather than recklessly scale out of control

I’ve seen less than 5 completely coherent sentences typed from him 🤷‍♂️

If it could JUST pick up a rex that would be one thing

But it seems to have some pretty strong support combat abilities and a ton of mobility options

[thick tulip]

it can swim too tho

[blissful perch]

The water skating and diving is not insignificant

[thick tulip]

plus exo mek utility, plus armor vs tek...

too much bruh

oh, and fear roaring a Yuty lol

i still feel like im forgetting something XD

[blissful perch]

It has exo mek utility??

[thick tulip]

can pick up structures

[verbal wind]

it can pick up structures yeah

and yuty can fear other yuty

picking up rex is kinda really op tho

[blissful perch]

Idk, it seems like you could abuse the diving to escape pretty effectively despite the slow speed

[verbal wind]

if they stuck to carno being the biggest it could grab that would be fine

[blissful perch]

A Rex’s drag weight is super high so I’m wondering what kind of silly tactics this will enable

I said my piece on PvP 😅

[fast isle]

Ark survival devolved

[desert swallow]

next creature will be able to tap into tek transmitter to eliminate any opponent (player or dino) on the cluster. But it will come with a cost! 10 element per use! Also can be used to harvest resources as it has stryder components for arms.

[worldly garden]

Can do more than that, can pick up Diplos and Paracer which is 600 drag weight. Nothing above that though.

[verbal wind]

now i'm imagining combat dropping paracers with platform saddle turrets

[worldly garden]

Just tested, it can't pick them up with platform saddles on. 🤣

[untold ingot]

This new Dino is broken lol. It's like an 3arly game skiff

[verbal wind]

skiff/exomek

[untold ingot]

Picking up structures is nice but it isn't what makes it or the exomek op. The value of thenexomek is as a cryo able replicator

[verbal wind]

also being a replicator that needs no fuel

[verbal wind]

no

[winged dome]

End of 2024, PC and Xbox confirmed

[tropic crag]

...Then why'd you ask?

[gritty bolt]

cant wait to play ark 2..... on ps....

[sleek ibex]

Maybe one day

[gritty bolt]

maybe i hate the way xbox controllers are and i suck with kbm

[sleek ibex]

It will definitely be a little while after ark 2 if they aren't smart and do it like ark 1

[gritty bolt]

is asendant ps5?

[sleek ibex]

The xbox series s is a solid option you can connect a different controller there's all sorts our rhere

[sleek ibex]

Ohh this is the ark 2 channel

Ascended is on ps5

[gritty bolt]

i cannot find acednantr channel

[sleek ibex]

I don't think there is one

[gritty bolt]

thats prob y well ty

[sleek ibex]

Welcome

[ripe cedar]

Use playstation controller on pc?

[winged dome]

Average Ark Chatter moment

[true fox]

You know what I'd kill for in ASA? Some more hot keys. Maybe two sidebars on the screen

Just something to put extra stuff so I don't need to digaround in my inventory you know?

[winged dome]

Maybe hold Q for a customizable quick radial menu?

I can get behind that. But I rarely need more than the 10 quick slots

[harsh spear]

cuz youre a pve andy

[winged dome]

Oh no, I don't enjoy the game the same way as someone else - suddenly that makes my insight and opinions completely invalidated

[true fox]

I just want to have stuff like stimberries someplace I can quick fast went a troodoon snucks up behind me

[vapid panther]

maybe a quest that allows another hot bar to be loaded. then a button press to switch between them.

[true fox]

quest is a bizarre concept for ark

[winged dome]

Eh, not really. Gen1&2 had a bunch of missions, and Tekgrams are unlocked via bosses which could loosely be considered progression quests

Something like an extra hot bar should be available for everyone immediately though, would be weird to lock it behind some kind of progression requirement

[vapid panther]

I remember them saying in Ark 2 there will be more destination events.... like watering holes. Quest may not be the ideal word but the concept of achieving goals to learn a skill. Not just gaining exp and picking a skill. For me, it adds more roleplaying. Not really a word that PVP uses but I mostly play PVE.

[hardy barn]

So i have not seen road maps or anything but when is ark too or the other version coming out with the new dinos?

It wasnt ark 2 but its not the older one its the one that was going to be a bundle or something and i just want to know if they are released a date of when it would be out

[winged dome]

Ark Asc: End of August 2023, new dinos will be added presumably with the DLCs as they're rolled out quarterly

[hardy barn]

Thank you

[winged dome]

Okay, I can see some progress being locked behind those kinds of interactions, maybe learning how to tame or make a saddle for a new creature requires interacting with it in certain ways first, encouraging going out and exploring and not just looking things up online. Atlas did something kinda similar, your character would earn permanent perks for completing challenges not always directly related to progression

But UI elements imo should available from the start

[vapid panther]

Things like those. This started from more task bar slots. I was thinking you start with 10 as usual. but when you finish a mission/ quest you gain the ability to preload a second task bar. Makes it not necessary for low level but really adds some depth to skill choices at higher levels where timing and combinations become more important.

[untold ingot]

The watering holes etc are considered world events, not progression events or destination events. They are going to be just happening

[vapid panther]

True. I was using it as a quick example... they have the ability to create world events. It should be simple to link a specific reward to some of them that can only be obtained at that point or doing that action. Kinda like boss engrams are now but lower tier things.

[true fox]

Iirc they’ve just said August and times it to Ark1 shutdown. I’m assuming any push to one date will move the other

[untold ingot]

I think ark2 got delayed to make way for gen2 release on asa

[true fox]

Ark2 got delayed because they had to relearn a whole new engine

[stray elm]

They didn't have to 'relearn'
They stated they wanted more time to work with UE5 before fully working on ARK-2.

Basically, they want ASA to be the trial-and-error for ARK-2

Personally think the 'new third-person system you can opt out of' is akin to what they want with ARK-2's third-person.

[desert swallow]

Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.

[true fox]

Does that not have the same meaning?

[stray elm]

I wouldn't say 'relearning' as that indicates they didn't know how Unreal-5 works as a whole.
I'd say they want to learn 'more' about it.

[desert swallow]

If you've ever upgraded to a version of any engine or framework you already know the previous version of while doing software development you would know that to get up to speed is not a large climb up hill.

To say going from UE4 to UE5 is going to be the bulk of their efforts is just not true.

[stray elm]

Especially when UE4, even as outdated of a version they're on, is decently simular to UE5.

[desert swallow]

of course it is. They would lose adoption if it looked completely foreign.

They want people to be able to update their projects efficiently, not scrap it.

[stray elm]

Right.
So yeah, I wouldn't say 'relearn'
Just trying to understand the new mechanics UE5 has.

[desert swallow]

I've done the tutorials, they're pretty easy to setup and understand at a basic level

So a pro should be able to get up to full speed quickly.

[true fox]

Have you seen the changes? It is significant

[desert swallow]

Yes I've seen them

[true fox]

It seems like a ton of work to me. Ark1 was built quite a long time ago, and I'm sure the code base has a lot of room for improvement, given it hasn't seen a rewrite

[desert swallow]

how do you know they haven't done anything with code debt?

[true fox]

They said they needed to do a rewrite for ark2 given the time it has been since they did that

[desert swallow]

Yes they cited UE5 in their announcement, adjusting their pipeline etc, didn't really say a full rewrite because a rewrite wouldn't be required for an upgrade from ue4 to 5. A rewrite because they chose a bad game direction, sure. Anyways, if it was just UE5 then explain why they could upgrade Ark 1 to ASA for August (maybe) yet need until end of 2024 for Ark 2?

[tropic forge]

they gotta milk those new dlc's before ark 2

[fallow current]

Maybe because ark 2 is more than a graphics and redesign🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[desert swallow]

that's my point

to say that something is delayed because of moving from UE4 to UE5 two years is ridiculous.

[true fox]

No one said that was the only reason. New game means plot and story and a thousand other things

[desert swallow]

ok, we agree then!

[untold ingot]

I mean, I don't think Asa is just a port. But I do think they could have released ark2 earlier, and decided not to in order to take advantage of Asa dlc releases

[desert swallow]

This is pure speculation, but I think they decided the direction they were going with Ark 2 didn't match player expectations and had to do a 180 on their game design. That would cause a huge delay for sure.

But yes, ASA is meant to give them revenue until they are done rewrite of Ark 2

And I'm looking forward to ASA

[winged dome]

I suspect either drastic design changes, or something went really wrong for the devs to go from 'next reveal is gameplay!' to 'no gameplay until 2024'

[true fox]

I am as well. Interesting to see what does and does not change. I just restarted on island to prepare my

[tropic forge]

guess even a cc gets delay after a time being set 🤣

[tranquil gazelle]

a

[winged dome]

Was a time set for CC? I thought it was just Saturday 😂

[tranquil gazelle]

[tropic forge]

well pretty sure that aint gonna be a cc now and yeh i was referring to saturday

[winged dome]

Could still come, I think the lastest is like another hour or so from now

[tropic forge]

last one was at 1am on my time but its almost 2am but yeh

[potent hull]

fox is ark and ark is fox lol

[true fox]

Maybe cc is delayed because they are working some issue. I saw something about windows store

[tropic forge]

ho they are working but in some "issue's"

[desert swallow]

Ya but didn't specify week, month, year, or century

[winged dome]

Shhhh

[wispy sierra]

it's clearly set for Saturday in 1945

[winged dome]

@cunning talon
Justice for the Center!
Ragnarok can wait its turn for Creature Submissions, Center needs some love! 😂

[untold ingot]

Center is getting dropped

[true fox]

First map where I really succeeded, and game bosses etc was The Center. Always will have a place in my heart

Rags is fun but every ten minutes there is a five minute long save that freezes everything

[tropic forge]

damn this cc actually show up but late as hell 🤣 but one thing, why another unique creature for rag when center dosent have any, maybe they are cancel center????

[untold ingot]

They did say there were going to be 4 new creatures. Maybe they didn't plan for them all on paid dlcs

[tropic forge]

sure but wth i rather play on center than rag to be honest rag for me its more a easy way to get wyvern eggs and raise them but thats it

[blissful perch]

Lotta folks said they thought rag gutted SE. So I’m surprised rag is coming off the heels of SE so fast