ark-2

[untold ingot]

If the map is much bigger than it might not be so much of an issue

[blissful perch]

You’re asking for a boring map. Stop that 😂. Great maps are immersive and memorable, not painfully realistic in how samey they are. Biomes with landmarks and lively biospheres > real maps where there is in fact just a massive stretch of nothing but sand

In a multiplayer context…keep notes and any form of progression separate. Missions and progression can link because it’s hard to cap them all, but a more standard survival tactic of “material research” should do just fine…since it’s less specific than notes and still requires travel of some kind

[untold ingot]

Perhaps, but something like rag is terrible imo

I actually liked gen2 biomes personally, at least the eden side. The varience of terrain was very good without resorting to the pointless chaos found on maps like rag and ci

[bronze ivy]

Hopin we get some better combat

[split dove]

we will, it will be more skill based ''souls like'' combat wich includes target-lock, blocks, dodges, combos, staggers and special attacks, compared to the current spam click and win combat style

[thick moat]

That's why I think they should add something for the biggest tribe to keep them on their toes + the map is bigger so it would be harder for them to completely claim a entire server, specially if it's like atlas grids

Though yeah transfering from server to server with only the character is fine

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I think bigger maps will make it harder for a mega to claim the server, especially if travel is slowed

[south lance]

it should have similar amount of features, but maps are so small only having like some 10s of significant features atm

even if you removed all flyers and tames faster than an argy youll be finished with something like rag or valg in a 2-3 months at most, at least considering the average online ark player

excluding maybe some few small caves

after which point youre stuck just doing anything else and repeatedly going over the same land over and over

delaying this point by another 6 months by increasing map size would be nice especially since thatd mean you could access new dlc shortly after getting bored with the map itself and only playing for the other parts of the game

and this would be even better for normal people who almost always have new map to explore

atm the only new things people find are some dumb ratholes after looking for 8 hours a day in god mode

[blissful perch]

The argument “players will explore and learn your map” is a pro to me and not a con

[south lance]

i hate learning 95% of a map in 2 weeks lol

[blissful perch]

Ab was fantastic because it was small and high detail

Not to say ark 2 should be Ab sized…but the point is that landmarks and immersion matter far more than just “big”

[south lance]

unless ark2 is very visually pleasing idk if id care about detail after some few weeks

[blissful perch]

You do. You care about gathering points, common creature spawn locations, etc. and without wiki map tools most folks rely on landmarks (or maybe if the map was better the map) to navigate

[south lance]

abb also has the added benefit of being more 3d than most maps

[south lance]

that reduces their point to just being useful, which isnt something that itself would make me want to play though

[blissful perch]

The longevity of a repeatable game will never be exploration unless you use procedural maps. Let’s start there

[south lance]

i mean if they could develop maps at roughly the same rate but some few times larger, it could be a significant part of player retention

[blissful perch]

This is a certain outcome regardless of map size. For a game that wants to live as long as ark 1 (7-8+ years), six extra months from reducing quality and detail to force a larger map is not worth it

[south lance]

you just want to put off the necessitated end game grinding as long as possible

the best parts of ark are never end game

[blissful perch]

Exploration is a one time process. For a game like ark that relies on RPG elements for longevity, the RPG is what should be focused on for retention and longevity

[south lance]

in fact id argue thats true for all survival games

yes, after 4 years the size of map 1 wont be what keeps players around

[blissful perch]

The survival games you put down after one playthrough are exploration focused

[south lance]

thats because most devs suck at scale lol

[blissful perch]

The ones you repeat play are the ones with good RPG mechanics, good survival mechanics, etc. IE the gameplay loop is engaging

[south lance]

like every top 10 maps vid only has maps that go up to around 300-500 sqkm and much of that is unusable

i dont mean to say the rpg elements should be ignored though

[blissful perch]

Open world games are showing just how useless massive maps can be without purpose. People like the IDEA of a massive map way more than the actual thing

[south lance]

sure yeah, but map size isnt actually that large in most of these games

[blissful perch]

And again, most games with exploration as a focus that don’t use procedural tools like NMS can’t rely on exploration for any form of replayability because…you only explore fresh once

[south lance]

its like maybe island sized most of the time

[blissful perch]

Because that’s probably the limit of the detail:size ratio

Somewhere in the ballpark of ark maps. It took ISO YEARS to make one map for ark 1 with good detail

It’s probably not financially feasible for most studios to make insanely massive maps at high detail at this time, simply from an artistic and time standpoint

[south lance]

iso was made by 1 or a few people i think?

[blissful perch]

Afaik just ISO made crystal isles (I’m sure others helped here and there, but afaik it was her project)

[south lance]

youd have way more people spending more time able to construct these maps, but yes making these maps could be less cost productive

[blissful perch]

Right, say you have 5 people instead of 1, which takes CI’s dev time to a single year. Now try to make that map 10x larger

[south lance]

ya

[blissful perch]

It’s not feasible to make and QC that map on a current gaming timeline with most studios

[south lance]

but these people are also bound to be more dedicated since theyll be paid and such, and this isnt even taking into account ue5 capabilities though that could improve or worsen construction times

[blissful perch]

UNLESS you deploy procedural tools

[wintry urchin]

I'm sure they have a dozen people working on the map. Seems like they got an influx of money, considering they announced ark 2 and an entire show alongside it. Which let's them hire more people

[blissful perch]

I’m more certain that most of that effort went into building the code and mechanics, and the graphics and animations

Remember maps are but one (often final) piece of the product

The map is GOING to be larger, it’s been confirmed. But I hope sincerely that size change does not come at the cost of quality

[wintry urchin]

With all the delays and hype About them using UE5, and emphasis on dynamic environments it better not

[south lance]

as long as the map is as good as lost island idrc

[ionic meteor]

Maybe they'll make the map on grid just like ATLAS?

[south lance]

you could cut down on server counts with larger maps too

[wintry urchin]

Lost island was mid from a pvp player perspective

[south lance]

all maps are mid for pvp because pvp in this game is mid

its just holing up in a cave or going to rag

[wintry urchin]

Imo Aberration was the best map to ever come out, beautiful landscape, new pvp styles. No broken ass dinos or items like every dlc after

[blissful perch]

The engine’s capabilities are only realized by a studio that can use and deploy them. IE, if they have time to really go in and make use of all the new features

[wintry urchin]

I'm just waiting for that gameplay they promised

It'll tell us literally everything we need to know

[blissful perch]

And ofc “dynamic environments” doesn’t mean “high quality map design”

[wintry urchin]

Even if it's just 30 seconds

[blissful perch]

No tf it won’t 😂😂😂

It’ll tell us a small piece of gameplay. Valuable, but not exhaustive

[wintry urchin]

Tf u mean bro

It'll show us hud, the map, foliage interactions, new dino ai, map detail, how finished the game is

[blissful perch]

Who said it’ll do any of that lmfao

[south lance]

^

[blissful perch]

It could be the first 30 seconds of gameplay, where you just see someone spawn and get eaten

[south lance]

you will get an idea for the visuals

[blissful perch]

You’ll see a lot…but there’s a high chance we won’t even see crafting and combat in the same gameplay trailer

And given the community, I’m betting what we see is a stylized ingame combat scene…so likely no focus on UI elements, breeding, the rpg, the missions, etc etc

[wintry urchin]

Maybe not, but if I know ark devs they have a hard time stopping themselves from showing things when they're ingame

I remember the extra life before Extinction game out and they accidently showed things every 30 seconds

[south lance]

i mean theyll probably have planned it out

if they show stuff on accident its cause they didnt care enough to not show it

though idr much from extinction showcase

[blissful perch]

WC seems to now be under Microsoft NDA, so I’m gonna say that’s a bad precedent to assume

[lavish rain]

You can't tell me anything

[blissful perch]

Keep in mind you also said “we’ll know everything in 30s”

[ionic meteor]

If it wasn't for microsoft's NDA we would've heard a lot of news over the years

[untold ingot]

I mean, ci took a long time to make because it had a significant amount of custom textures and models.

In my personal opinion from games I have played, I much prefer gigantic maps with sparse poi

Most maps seem too crammed for me

[untold ingot]

Ab was great in spite of being small imo. The key points that made ab good imo is the verticality, the sense of progression, and the sense of danger from everywhere. It's level of detail isn't actually that much more than any ark map, it just blends biomes in a way that makes sense.

Ab was good because unless you really knew the map you could still get lost, other maps didn't really have this feature (mainly due to fliers imo)

[blissful perch]

The level of detail is miles beyond say, the sand expanses of SE or the northern ocean in rag that’s just a massive sand basin

But Ab was correct imo in keeping to four biomes for the map size. The size per biome was larger than say the island and it made the map feel more immersive. Other traits for each biome, like depth, were able to help players navigate and immerse in their surroundings

[untold ingot]

I mean, most of scorched isn't sand expanses though

Tbh, I think ab is the only map that gets away with having separate biomes like it does

And that's only because it's biomes we're actually seperate

Like there was actually a meaning for the biomes being different, it wasn't just a mix up of different looking terrain to make a map "not boring".

[lavish rain]

I hate maps that are huge but only a few areas to visit, it feels like your wasting time

[untold ingot]

Fair, I equally dislike maps that feel cramped and chaotic

There really has to be a map size to movement speed ratio though. If I can get across a map in less than 5 minutes the map seems too small to me

[past wind]

That’s something I like on Atlas, the biomes are based on longitudinal coordinates. The poles are frozen. In the middle you have temperate biomes and in the center of the map you have equatorial climate.

IF the ark 2 map is really massive, it’s viable

[untold ingot]

I mean, I like the concept of atlas, but it will be much harder to make detailed ark2 maps of that scale

That's why I am sort of hoping each dlc extends the size of the map

Unfortunately that also means that the entire life cycle of ark2 would have to be laid out prior to release

[past wind]

Until they talk about the map and explain what “massive” means, I’m not sure what’s possible or not

[untold ingot]

I mean, map size is possible lol, rn they can only go 22km from origin with Ue4, Ue5 extends that to 88000000km from origin. The practical limit is just man power

[untold totem]

unfortunately, the "one big map" of ARK will not work if you want a planet wide map without resorting to copy ATLAS grid cluster or Last Oasis' hex map

[untold ingot]

If there are a couple of biomes like a grass plain or ocean they can take less detail and be much much much larger

[untold ingot]

Why is that?

[untold totem]

your limitation is your customer's PC, i dont think whey will make a "one huge map" that is beyond Gen 2 or CI

[untold ingot]

Technically yes, but Ue5 has some amazing tech that is supposed to make it more accessible to have bigger things easier

[ionic meteor]

Man I looved last oasis hex map so good

[untold totem]

i am 100% doubt about that since you can easily get it wrong, no matter how good the game engine it get

[untold ingot]

Nanite, lumen, the world partition, and large world coordinates should make massively massive maps accessible to normal pcs

[past wind]

I would make massive portions of the map procedurally and choose parts of the map to be handcrafted

[untold totem]

if the Matrix demo crash some PC i doubt a ATLAS sized ARK map

[past wind]

Those handcrafted regions could be DLCs

[past wind]

But who said the crashs are related to the size of the map? Matrix’ map is very small

[untold ingot]

It depends entirely on the reason of the crash

[untold totem]

that is the point, the matrix map is small yet it still get issues to the players who want to try the demo

now multiply that with x4 (equal to an ATLAS grid)

[untold ingot]

Again, its probably not the map size causing the issues

[past wind]

But where did you see the problem is the map?

Also Matrix is a technical demo, I doubt they spent much time doing it or fixing it

[untold ingot]

The actual size of the map is only taken into account in how much ram is used, and the dynamic world partitioning makes that significantly easier on computers than in the past

Nanite also helps significantly with that

[past wind]

Exactly, and depending on the LODs it can affect the amount of Vram

[untold ingot]

Granted there probably will be crashes on ark2, but I doubt they will be due to map size

[past wind]

And, of course, a large map would be concerning if we think about holes in the mesh

But I don’t remember it being an issue on atlas, with a much larger map

[untold ingot]

I am hoping that nanite has a tool to check that, I don't actually know if it does thoufh

[past wind]

Hopefully. We will see. But like I said, Atlas was ok regarding that. Maybe Ark was the issue

[untold ingot]

A lot of meshing in ark1 is due to game mechanics, and cryos make it viable. If cryos are removed then it'll be muuuch less of an issue imo

Without tek it'll be good too

[past wind]

First time I heard about meshing was when The Center was released, 2016, way before cryos.

But I’m sure some people that raided me and I had no idea where they came from, were also living in the mesh, before the center.

[untold ingot]

Fair, it'll probably always be a concern, but i don't think worrying about it is a reason to not make huge maps

[past wind]

People breeded and lived in there. You just need to bring eggs inside.

[sonic elbow]

Real talk, can you eat your own feces in ARK 2.

[past wind]

Cryos just made it easier, but wildcard was also enforcing harder the COC and fixing the holes faster

[wild kraken]

should i be worried about my pc specs regarding ark 2

[untold ingot]

If you're pc runs ark1 probably not

[wild kraken]

my pc runs ark 1 with flying colors

[untold ingot]

You'll probably be fine then

[wild kraken]

i just wanna see new anky live in game in 1080p dude

[split dove]

should be good then, if you got atleast minimum specs for recent games you should def be good

[untold ingot]

Yeah, really hoping for something like that

[torpid stag]

I’m still mad that there will be no first person

[untold ingot]

Of all the things announced about ark2 I don't even feel like responding to first person comments anymore lol

[mortal igloo]

Ark 1 - survival evolved, Ark 2 - primitive evolved, Ark 3 ascended evolved 😛

[ionic meteor]

ARK Trilogy

[mortal igloo]

im holding my expectations for ark 2, but i do hope it fills the ark 1 gap

[untold ingot]

I am hoping it exceeds the gap lol.

[mortal igloo]

haha so true

i just hope the devs have that tinfoil hat ready as no matter what they do, some portion off players wont like it as they will expect something

[untold ingot]

That is to be expected honestly

[mortal igloo]

they are kinda weathered in that regard now

[past wind]

Based on Cedric’s post, they are aware and ready for that.

[mortal igloo]

nice, i try not to read much for spoilers

[ionic meteor]

Ced stated it won't be for everyone

[past wind]

Basically he said Ark II might not be to everyone and that’s ok. And said he is liking a lot what he saw so far

[split dove]

nothing is for everyone in general

[untold ingot]

Any game that claims to be for everyone is a terrible game imo. I just hope it is a game for me lol

I am selfish that way

[mortal igloo]

nothing wrong with that

[past wind]

I mean, I think he’s talking about everyone from Ark’s community

[mortal igloo]

ye

[past wind]

But it might please outsiders

[past wind]

Unless they take out the Dinos (not happening) and ability to tame them, I will like 🤣

[split dove]

over time any game will lose old players but gain new ones that find the concept interesting. the people that won't play ark 2 will be replaced by the outsiders that will try it, be that on gamepass or another form

[past wind]

Sure. Hence why I think they should focus on reaching their internal goals not trying to please individuals

[mortal igloo]

ark 1 has incredibly good staying power if u dont rush everything as i often see players do

[past wind]

Of course major issues should be taken into account

[past wind]

I think Ark covers a lot of ways to play it

If you play pvp you can’t take your time. You have to do things ASAP.

[mortal igloo]

ye true because everything is level based

[tropic crag]

This is one of the most sensible things I've ever read on the matter, what else is early access for, if not testing out things and seeing what the players like/want in the long term?

[mortal igloo]

and being full loot pvp, that usually just holds a small handful off hardcore players, as when guys get wiped they quit, in pve its ofc harder to get wiped, especially for endless sandbox games, games like eve-online has held a good playerbase because u can keep things safe for ever in certain places

[tropic crag]

Lost Island was mid all around, let's be honest here 😂

[untold ingot]

I actually really liked lost island for pve

[thick moat]

I like lost island a lot ngl

[tropic crag]

There's a few good points (the jungles were nice, and some other niche features like a few of the caves and ruins), but generally speaking I really didn't like the outward design of it, the squished biomes, the samey little Center/Rag island... things in the Southeast, just not very pleasing to the eye I guess

[untold ingot]

Squished biomes?

The whole map is jungle lol

[mint swan]

Yes

Jungle time

[untold ingot]

Granted I wish they hadnt added the desert and redwoods, but other than that I really liked it

[tropic crag]

You need to load up the map again, then. It most certainly is not lmao

The desert island is a turn off for sure though, same as the redwoods and it's giant swaths of OP monke

It's mostly the unique tames for a lot of people, I've noticed

Do hope Ark 2 is bigger though for the reasons you described

[south lance]

redwoods would be nice if thylas didnt exist

[tropic crag]

I never have an issue with thylas, funny enough

[south lance]

mobility locking animals are cringe

[split dove]

fuck thylas, all my bobs hate thylas

[south lance]

thylas, purlovias, microraptor, troodon, jellyfish, electric eel

all have the same core issue

[split dove]

baryonix in water enterd the chat

[south lance]

forgot about that

and kapro too

[tropic crag]

Purlovia can eat ass, the others are all fine though, get good I guess

[split dove]

the worst one by far lol is a bary in water, stunlocked untill you die

[south lance]

electric eels and jellyfish are fine?

[split dove]

eels compared to launch eels are fine

[south lance]

they are worse than even purlos

since they actually do damage and sharks have stupid aggro range

eurypterid on gen2 would be fine if the torp didnt take literally 3 sec to ko which is basically min reaction time cause the game is so laggy

at least on online gen2

[split dove]

i mean the bary can stun in any water and aren't limited to just the ocean

[south lance]

yeah but in land its just a faster allo

and they have tiny aggro range

[tropic crag]

Can an eel guarantee you and your boss army's immediate death, should you make one single mistake while running the tek cave? Didn't think so 😂

And the fact that they can respawn on the way back up the cave to retrieve more tames 🤮

[stray elm]

Tek helmet and tek-rifle my friend

[tropic crag]

No durr

But if you clear the tek cave on the way down, you should expect it to be clear on the way back up, no?

[fallow niche]

There's not a tek cave in ark 2 that we know of

[untold ingot]

I was going to say that lol

[tropic crag]

Basically, I hope to never see purlovia in Ark 2

[fallow niche]

[untold ingot]

There should be some tame that buries in ark2, and it should be undetectable by parasuars

[tropic crag]

Parasaurs shouldn't detect, in that case

Either they have a use or they don't

[untold ingot]

They should be limited to base defense

[tropic crag]

Really not a big fan of having to keep them around just to defend a base, almost worse than having no use at all imo

Because then you have to tame them to keep up

Which is bad design

[stray elm]

I think purlovia's should stay in ARK-2

[flat stump]

oh god please no

[tropic crag]

Hate

Disdain, even

[stray elm]

I think their population should rise in ARK-2.

Even having sub-variants that can move while underground.

[tropic crag]

I think their population should kiss my booty, even underground

[stray elm]

You make it out that kissing that part of the body is a bad thing.
+10% population growth for purlovia's.

More purlovia's in ARK-2. 🔥

Hell, more pego's and itchy's while they're at it.

[tropic crag]

Despair

[untold ingot]

I think 50% is fine. I never run into them

[tropic crag]

Doubt

You do, you just kill them easily lol

[stray elm]

Pain, despair, death, untrust.
All of these feelings I must feel in ARK-2.

[rugged flower]

I would be surprised if icthys and pegos came back tbh

Same with Purlovias

[stray elm]

I wouldn't

They where added for a sadistic reason.

[rugged flower]

Yeah, but I imagine the base game creature roster is going to be smaller this time

[tropic crag]

Most smaller, useless creatures I don't see returning, bar some new feature being added to them or something

[stray elm]

A natural 'fuck you' to the ARK community for all of the bullshit they had to deal with.
If the ARK-2 community starts to act up again, they'll probably add something worse then all three combined.

[prisma pike]

They'll make wild raptors pounce again

[stray elm]

TRUE

[prisma pike]

Besides aberrant and corrupted ones lol they still do dat

Gives everything in the game a grab attack

[rugged flower]

Ark 2 needs more aggressive wild flyers.

[prisma pike]

Ark 2 needs no fliers how bout that

[rugged flower]

Pteranodon was already in the trailer

[stray elm]

More fliers

[south lance]

no but im not doing boss that often 🤷‍♂️

[lavish rain]

Why not add Walter white

[stray elm]

Walter-White has been resurrected by the Federation to try to cook up some drug enhancers for humanity on Arat.

[fallow niche]

[real hazel]

WAIT! there will be ark2?

[stray elm]

Nah, this channel is just here cause the admins wanted it

[real hazel]

@stray elmdont ruin my excitement i just realised this

[stray elm]

ARK-2 doesn't exist.
It's all madeup

[real hazel]

guys plz add hidden under ground caves

[stray elm]

You totally can't look up the steam-page for it.

It does not exist

[grave python]

ants are 1000 times worse than purlovias

[lavish rain]

Truth is ark 2 isn't real, it's never been real. Ark 2 is bullshit and may all players realize this

We're not sorry if we tricked you

[stray elm]

ARK-2 is Wilcard's biggest card-game.
You could say they've gone 'wild card'

[lament gorge]

I have an idea, just update Ark 1 with better graphics, more customized furniture and structures for around the base, expand upon a collections of sorts with cross ark accessibility. Charge us for it, I would gladly pay for such an expansion pack. Ark is such a great game and has so many avenues of revenue that are untapped, get it together Wild Card, dump Ark 2 and put that effort into Ark 1.

[tropic crag]

Skill issue

[stray elm]

Skill issue

If I'm going to pay for a fucking update, I'd rather pay for an actual sequel at that point

And the graphics in ARK-1 is roughly the best you're gonna get with the games shitty coding, and early UE4 lighting

[lament gorge]

so a revamp is in order

[stray elm]

Yes.
ARK-2 is the revamp

[lament gorge]

it looked like a completely different game and honestly, is it even happening?

[stray elm]

From what we know, yes, it's still happening.
And that's the point of a 'good' sequel.

[lament gorge]

A completely different style of gameplay does not interest me

[stray elm]

Fallout 2, and New-Vegas are very different in their own right.
But New-Vegas builds on what the original series was about.

[stray elm]

Let me open up the door for you. 🚪

@tropic crag Hey, you want to help me open up the other door?

[split dove]

not completely different, the core is still the same, everything else has been rethought and updated compared to what was lacking/bad in the first game

[lament gorge]

lol hey I'm just stating what many a players are feeling

[stray elm]

You don't speak for a whole ass community.

[lament gorge]

I didn't say that

[stray elm]

That's what you just stated.

[lament gorge]

I stated "many"

[rugged flower]

I'll never understand how many people continue to complain about ark 1 gameplay and how 1 dimensional it is, then. Turn around and complain when they decide to try and improve it for a sequel.

Gameplay

[lament gorge]

it's right up there if you want to look at it

[stray elm]

"Many" doesn't mean jack shit when it's not a "majority"

Many people hated tek.
But can you say the majority did?

[lament gorge]

I see, so you speak for the "majority"?

[stray elm]

Nope, I speak for no one but myself.

@split dove @tropic crag @rugged flower Have their own opinions.

[lament gorge]

ok so you should now understand how dumb you look

[stray elm]

I always know I look like a clown.
But I can also see fellow clowns in a crowd.

[rugged flower]

I peronally play a lot of Ark in first person, yet I'm willing to switch to third person, new combat and new mechanics overall if it means there will be improvement.

[south lance]

we have yet to know if ark2 will actually be significantly different from ark1 except that theres gonna be limited/no tek

[lament gorge]

do we really even "know" that? Some gameplay would be nice to see

[south lance]

yes, but for the time being it seems we will just have to wait

[mint swan]

Its obviously gonna be different

[south lance]

we have next to no clue what the gameplay will be like

[split dove]

except for some descriptions from the steam page/founders note

[south lance]

itll be different, but how much so nobody can be sure, we do have the potential for some dark souls like movement but even that is a bit vague in the steam page

[mint swan]

Pretty sure its gonna be pretty different

[mint swan]

WC had stated this in CC 271.

[split dove]

most mechanics will be rethought/changed, but besides that and new stuff the core of surviving/taming will still be there

[south lance]

like you could have all of whats shown in the steam page in ark1 and youd still play ark1 the same mostly

it depends on how exactly its implemented

[neat bough]

is ark 2 gameplay coming this year

[stray elm]

We don't know

[mint swan]

Only Rockwell knows 👀

[stray elm]

Hard to when you died in a atomic explosion with the power of a star.

[sonic elbow]

He's "survived worse".

Cocky blighter.

[stray elm]

I don't know what's worse. 💀

Man has only injected himself, crashed onto Earth from the safety of an ARK, and got his digital avatar wooped.
"I've survived worse"

[sonic elbow]

The agonizingly painful transformation from hentacle monster to racist meat-farmer.

I don't know which fate was worse.

[stray elm]

Personally, I'd rather go through that then a atomic star.

[sonic elbow]

Why did he grow a neckbeard

[stray elm]

Maybe he's a natural neckbeard, but always shaved it to not look like a basement dweller?

Hard to shave when there's no razors to fit you.
Or any at all

[sonic elbow]

Sharp tentacles

He had a Colonel Mustard mustache and hair before

But it was withered and grey

Not black like in Gen2

And it was THIN

Now he's just meat-Jafar

The more I think about it, the less Rockwell looks like himself in Gen2...

[restive galleon]

Nerds

[stray elm]

There's also different canons in ARK

The note pictures have always been 'off'

[sonic elbow]

Rockwell Note 1 💀

[stray elm]

So far there's three canons.
Note-accurate canon.
In-game canon.
And Animated-Series canon.

[stray elm]

Yeeeep.

[sonic elbow]

Notes can be explained away by artistic license
Game is a little harder
TAS just outright isn't canon

[south lance]

tas?

[stray elm]

Which is why I said it's their own canons

[stray elm]

The-Animated-Series

[south lance]

oh

[neat bough]

how about i eat poo

[south lance]

no

[neat bough]

oh

[stray elm]

Animated-Series is akin to what the MCU did to the comics.

[neat bough]

[fallow niche]

Swing it back to topic

[mint swan]

Wonder if ark2 be like atlas as in character wise

[neat bough]

ark 2 should have cars

[sonic elbow]

Flintstonemobile

[stray elm]

ARK-and-Furious.

[sonic elbow]

Santiago drifts in an unga-bunga rock box

Genesis-Drift

[neat bough]

😂 isn't ark 2 is suppose to be more primitive tho

[stray elm]

DLC's though don't count.

Car-DLC.

[fresh kayak]

wait till 2030

[keen summit]

The part of ark 2 that I’m most excited for is the free climbing that’s gonna be dope as hell

[restive galleon]

Nerds🦑

[wanton pike]

I’d be insane if we get ark 2 gameplay as a Christmas present 🎁 👀

[sand nova]

Yes pls ^

That’s what I’ve been waiting for along with everyone else lol dying to see what the game looks like in unreal 5

[ripe cedar]

oh yeah btw for anyone worried that Rockwell will be the final boss of ark, again don't worry the final boss of ark 2 is a completely new character called Llewkcor

[mighty lion]

Heard the desert area has a boss called the erocitnam. Idk where they are getting these names from

[sonic elbow]

But the Bog Biome Miniboss Weasquawertulitreg is by far the best

[blazing ice]

U

[wild kraken]

gameplay trailer dude

wildcard why did you release the wishlist

but 0 gameplay to show for it

[stray elm]

That's an automatic thing from Steam.

[wild kraken]

alr

but no gameplay trailer and were about to enter 2023

which is alleged release date

also i just realized how similar they made the game to rust

(from what they describe)

[sonic elbow]

Rust but good

[mint swan]

when is ark 2 coming out again?

[thick moat]

Naaahh rust is cracked wdym

What are the similaritied btw? Modular weapons?

Like it's not even modular its just accesories🗿

[feral lily]

Bru the way it said that ark dinos will be removed from ark 2 like bru there's a t rex in the ark to trailer like what the f

[barren spindle]

Who said dinos would be removed from ark 2?

[thick moat]

what

[past wind]

Brah!

[desert halo]

Toxicity of a large amount of people

[vale tendon]

It’s coming in 2023 but it will have A lot of glitches

[ripe marsh]

So glad you traveled from the future to tell us

Greatly appreciated

[tough bolt]

I'm sorry but rust is sucks :/

[lime forge]

That’s what he said

[iron sequoia]

[fresh kayak]

idk but it's likely to happen

[late wave]

i have a question and i doubt anyone will have an answer, but can we expect stuff like managarmrs griffins snow owls ect in ark 2 at all? or is it just enjoy ark 1 while we can and say goodbye when the servers eventually shut down?

[split dove]

the only returning dinos we can speculate are the ones on the eden ring from genesis part 2, so no manas and griffins unless they make it to where it was on the database of the ring (griffins were only a mission encounter so very unlikely as with the other creatures not on gen 2)

[late wave]

damn okay. that is a little disappointing due to spending so many hours with these cool dinos and then them just not existing at all eventually

got too many hours in ark 1 i might as well get ark 2 and see how it goes

[split dove]

even if dinos return they might be different visually and mechanicly, like we've seen with the rex, raptor and dodo

[blissful perch]

Don’t be limited by lore Flobs, you’re above that 😂

[split dove]

it's my Edmundium shifter, i cannot resisit

[late wave]

i mean i dont expect there to be manas roaming around on the base map on initial release. but i do think it would be cool if eventually in dlc they added back the ark 1 dlc dinos but maybe with a rework to how they look and workk

[noble osprey]

I would like that

[late wave]

i think most people who put hours into the game would. it also feels a bit out of place, or a waste of time for them to release a new map on ark 1 with new dinos and stuff for them to not be in the new game (at least eventually) and all ive heard is its getting released 2023 which is only next month

idk maybe they will do a whole new thing and just leave the ark 1 dinos as exclusives on ark 1 til the servers eventually die but that is kinda sad to think about

[wind finch]

I for myself would really like to not see those creatures again. Some creatures would make sense (like Reaper Queen for exemple) but managamr, gacha etc, would be weird story wise

[pure siren]

Not sure if anyone has said this before, but I am wondering if Ark 2 is going to be no flyers - they will be there, but you can't ride them.

[mint swan]

When ark2?

[fallow niche]

2023

[loud star]

Case #30420 @vivid meadow has been muted for 1 hour.
Reason: Posting a unauthorised Discord invite link

[blissful perch]

That’s the dream, but we’ll have to wait and see. The more likely reality is fliers are substantially nerfed and are less imperative for gameplay

[blissful perch]

I’d say WC has no obligation to release ark 1 creatures of any kind. They exist in ark 1, which you can play any time at your leisure. However I do think that since WC essentially created a bunch of new creatures for ark 1 they need to consider (like monster hunter and Pokémon) if they intend to include their whole roster or only part of it…and how the community will react to that

Off the bat, if the game’s combat is more melee focused…I can imagine creatures like maewing and manas being very difficult to implement while retaining souls like combat

[mint swan]

Lol

[past wind]

I’m not so sure about that. I mean, isn’t the ship supposed to have a backup for all the species? Some species have not been released on the Eden ring, but they might been stored on the ship, just like Santiago was.

What I mean is, the Devs have ways to explain any creature they want to put on Ark II.

[blissful perch]

Yes. And they could do it without ANY of ark 1’s present lore

They can always say “jk actually this is why” in ark 2 and it’s now canon. It’s like people forget who wrote the damn lore 😂

[lavish rain]

Fuck melee combat

[blissful perch]

Bruh what lol. I’m a midrange gang member sometimes, but melee combat is the best

I ran melee in COD, loved it, ran it in every game that had it, loved it…it’s just so much more engaging than ranged (especially cringe long range hit scan)

[elfin pumice]

melee is also the most dangerous way to fight

go hunt a rex with a pike

but if ark 2 has souls-like combat for big dinos too (as if they were soulsborne bosses) i see melee being viable

[woven shuttle]

so e believe they are removing things like that because they are going back to arks roots as a primitive survival game but they are adding an easy-to-use modding system so i am sure someone will bring it back

[woven shuttle]

melee on CoD is way to easy to do

[woven shuttle]

btw they have confirmed a couple species for ark 2. Check out the ark 2 dododex

[blissful perch]

Aliens are confirmed so I wouldn’t conflate primitive with realistic

[woven shuttle]

fair

[blissful perch]

Yes, but manas and maewings are not confirmed

[blissful perch]

This is exactly what I’m imagining lol

[late wave]

Do you think they'll keep ark 1 servers around til they die off or do what blizzard did and kill the servers when the new game launches?

[blissful perch]

It’s mechanically simple, but it does require a bit of finesse to actually close distance in a game where most people have ranged weapons

[woven shuttle]

ark is gonna stay running

[blissful perch]

Ark official events end this year. Servers have no known closure date. Do what you will with that information

[late wave]

Okay cool, yeah i mean i dont expect them to keep doing the events when they have a new game out

But no other game scratches that pvp itch like ark does so as long as some of the unofficial servers are up and not dead im happy lol

[woven shuttle]

i am glad ark 1 is gonna stay running though because while ark 2 looks amazing there will be times where i just wanna go back to my fluffy raptor army

[blissful perch]

My guess is official servers will slowly close like legacy servers did (unless ark 2 flops horribly)

Unofficial to my knowledge has no link to WC’s official network, so those can go functionally indefinitely

[lavish rain]

Riot shield

🛡

[mint swan]

Wdym by aliens

[blissful perch]

Animals native to the alien planet ark 2 is on?

For example, the Aratai (orks) and the plant lizard showed in the initial trailer

[mint swan]

Wouldn’t we be the aliens then

[blissful perch]

We’re aliens to Arat life, yes. The rex in that case would be an alien

But when most people say “aliens” they mean compared to earth life

[mint swan]

Yeah true

[winged dome]

We're the invasive alien baddies this time 😂

[south lance]

ark2 as allegory for settler colonialism 🙏

oh wait the colonists are the protagonists 😕

guess we will just do a little genocide

[split dove]

won't be a war crime if we wipe them all out

[south lance]

there were no people here :troll:

[lethal vault]

Similar to conan not rust

[south lance]

they simply couldnt use the land right

[lethal vault]

I wonder if we can tame humanoids like in conan

[south lance]

we will civilize them

the way you tame an aratai is by stealing their kids and teaching them how to be rational and free thinkers

[blissful perch]

Nothing beats relying on human NPCs for the 500th game in a row

[lethal vault]

I hope they dont end up making conan with dino, it will still be fun actually

[blissful perch]

Not sure how to avoid that if human NPCs are added

They just so quickly ruin the dynamic ark has going for it

[south lance]

what is this dynamic

what do the humanoids in conan do

[lethal vault]

NPC will always be stronger than dino tames because NPC and equip gear and weapons

that's the case in conan

[south lance]

thats dependent on gear

dinos being the focus of ark makes them inherently superior to geared AI imo

[blissful perch]

That’s horribly flawed logic

[south lance]

?

why would devs make dinos weaker than geared AI

[blissful perch]

Give the Ai mounted turrets, bows, etc and oops suddenly they outclass almost all other options

[lethal vault]

Yeah ark creatures are more useful than conan creatures but sniper humanoid sounds kinda good.

[south lance]

the whole point is that the game is reliant on your creatures

[blissful perch]

Yes, and anything that mimics as human > a dinosaur in terms of functionality

Except for hp soaking I guess lol

[south lance]

we already have this in tje form of turrets lol, the only way you could make this worse is if you allow AI to have soft debuff weapons like netguns and such

but you can just disallow that in balancing

[lethal vault]

what about base building? most new survials have timed raiding. i dont like them but it prevents offline raiding kinda

[south lance]

you just need to balance the game around dino combat and make the npc ai extra weak

[blissful perch]

Then human AI serves no purpose

[south lance]

none of this guarantees npc supremacy, its all about implementation

the npc doesnt need to be useful for combat

[blissful perch]

If you give the same attention to a human as you do to any other creature, it will be superior

[lethal vault]

humanoids should be untamable

[south lance]

there was already a bunch of stuff about how npc could be used to automate farming or crafting in earlier months here

[blissful perch]

Just as a function of the insane value a single player contributes

[lethal vault]

maybe ally system or something

[lavish rain]

Drugs

[blissful perch]

I’d like some Aratai events where you can “work” with them

[split dove]

and help burn down Santiagos home

[lethal vault]

do you think we will have cage system like in ark

[south lance]

and again, even with this you can still nerf absolute effectiveness easily, make their aimbot rng so they are better than nothing but dont autoheadshot, make their gear effective against certain dinos but worse against others, theres so much you can do to balance combat against NPCs even tamed ones

obv theyd probably be one of if not the most valuable assets to a tribe, but that doesnt mean they are insurmountable

you just have to implement them more complexly than just here have an aimbot and a shotgun

which is what im guessing should be the case with all the talk of creature AI

and no they wouldnt just be useless if you made them somewhat surmountable since their point is to help with offline tasks. Having something>nothing

its like saying turrets are useless cause they can be blown up

[blissful perch]

You lost me at the first part of this sentence

[south lance]

?

[blissful perch]

NPC humans shouldn’t be a central point in an ark game

[south lance]

youd be using them in tandem with work horses

[blissful perch]

It’s like saying turrets shouldn’t be in the game because defense revolves around them too much

[south lance]

??

[blissful perch]

I’m saying human NPCs shouldn’t be in an ark game because they’d quickly become too big a part of gameplay

And I have zero interest in fooling around with human NPCs in a game that prides itself on taming and making use of non human animals

[lavish rain]

The tek people shall rise

[south lance]

you can make that argument for the ~ 4 or 5 creatures youd need to play ark at end game

i do see there could be an issue with automation of farming ig

since that widens the gap between large and small tribes

[blissful perch]

You’re conflating meta from design. The idea of human NPCs presents a fundamental design shift away from complex tame interactions and towards lazily assigning human NPCs to do a myriad of tasks

[south lance]

grinding isnt complex

[blissful perch]

That’s not just a meta issue, like the giga being the best therapod. That’s a major design shift away from a core element of ark

[south lance]

its hitting a rock and goijg to tp

[blissful perch]

Automation is complex ai compared to what ark 1 has, which is almost entirely manual for almost all activity

It’s very easily feasible, but it shouldn’t come at the expense of diverse tames, which it would if human NPCs were shoved in

[south lance]

idk how much id care for the presence of grinding tames tbh

[blissful perch]

Why bother inventing a new creature to do something if you can just get an Aratai that looks like a person to do a person’s work?

It circumvents too much of the animal reliance ark is built on

[south lance]

i think your point exists strongest around combat but idk about it in relation to farming, farming is something i cant see ever being a major plus except to slow down/prolong end game

combat implementation is too uncertain 🤷‍♂️

[blissful perch]

You can improve farming QoL without needing human NPCs. That’s my whole point

Human NPCs are a lazy solution in a game where you are supposed to rely on animal life

[south lance]

at its core it will always be traveling to a resource, hitting it, and coming back

maybe tek tp is the issue here idk

it makes farming too far reduced to seem meaningful

[blissful perch]

If you’re talking about NPC gathering runs that’s even more insane of a suggestion. Because now you’ve brought in offline mat gathering

[potent hull]

shifter how i make farming batter i yous you get to work lol jk hi

[south lance]

yes

[blissful perch]

That’ll instantly be a competitive quest to remove as many non harvesting tames as possible from your tame limit

[south lance]

is this a significant part of pve or something

[blissful perch]

I’m speaking purely about PvP

[south lance]

your tames will still be large composed of combat because thats 80% of the enjoyable aspects of the game, without those youre both losing that and youre wiped

you dont actually need infinite mats, at some point youll hit an effective limit on farming tames where any more has limited value

like even with 30 people online you dont suddenly try to get 30 stryders and the respective tp locations

[blissful perch]

I doubt it. What if you forced people to soak for 10x as long because you can farm so many more mats?

This also assumes cringe nonsense like mega tribes hogging resource spawns with NPCs wouldn’t take place and be a major pain in the ass

[south lance]

atm we already have tribes so rich with mats that the limiting factor isnt how long itd be to destroy their kits but when they make a mistake in defence and their wall is down

[blissful perch]

So the bar to be a tribe like this has now fallen in your new model

[south lance]

thats kinda already the case on 1x except this might accelerate that difference, but this is where i think npc farming with required travelling across the map can be a plus for smaller tribes- they can just kill those npcs in a much shorter amount of time for a greater amount of loot. Megas with a lot of npc farmers or who arent super active in the moment arent likely to be supervising these farming units the whole time or their automation is pointless. It wouldnt necessarily make these farmers useless either if upon killing one you are basically forced to get off server as the mega tries to find and wipe you

[blissful perch]

So now you want to make human NPCs one of the most major gameplay elements of ark 2?

[south lance]

to an extent, youd still need to farm before you could even take a farmer out, but mid game i think its more enjoyable to kill something for mats than to go and hit 300 rocks

you could also tie other parts of the game like engrams to actual exploration

you dont need the game to revolve around farming

but yes this makes npcs one of the most important parts of the game

i dont see how this significantly worsens pvp

this might be an issue in pve with large established tribes hogging all resources

but whether the game is about using your tame to smack a rock or to kill a thing doesnt really matter much imo

your tame still takes center stage as your ability to engage with the game

you still have to gather some mats, explore the map, fight stuff on your alien bear raptor

[blissful perch]

It worsens the game design pillar of dependency on animal life

[south lance]

but you still need animals

i will say that there are maybe some side effects of giving large tribes even more time to do whatever that could themselves make automation an issue

[wild kraken]

Opposing pve force component based crafting

and there’s more shit I forgot

Not saying they’re copying rust I’m just saying they are making welcome changes that also was done by a similar game

[untold ingot]

That's not actually how it works, even in ark1

[vale mountain]

So based on what we know, how is ark 2 looking in comparison to its first outing

It’s no secret the ark engine is… rustic at best

So I’m hoping that’s the biggest improvement from the first game

[winged dome]

Seeing as we don't have a ton of details or gameplay, hard to say

On paper, the improvements sound good but gameplay will help to prove that

[vale mountain]

I guess I’m just hoping for somethingn that doesn’t feel like as much of a slog on vanilla rates

Honestly they should reach out to a couple of moderate that have made very good mods like super structures and better Dino’s and maybe see if they can merge those efforts

Look at sonic mania for example, that’s the best sonic game in like 10 years and that was made by fans

With budget from sega obviously but still

That’s a game you feel the love

[blissful perch]

S+ was implemented into official as the homestead update

[vale mountain]

Is S+ Super structures?

Or are they different?

Serious question

[rough charm]

Same but different

S+ is Structure Plus

[blissful perch]

Functionally identical. SS is the spiritual successor afaik

[rough charm]

It is the source for some other mods, such as Super Structures and Nominal Structures

[blissful perch]

I think S+ is open source now?

[rough charm]

Yes.

[blissful perch]

Point being, WC does pay attention to these mods

[winged dome]

SS was the successor when S+ stopped receiving updates, but now S+ is open source and updated

[vale mountain]

That’s good, see I didn’t know that as I haven’t really touched official in years due to the feeling of it being a full time job basically if you get anywhere near endgame content

[blissful perch]

KBD is more controversial though because it isn’t just QoL, it’s also a lot of buffs that may not mesh well with what people prefer in terms of difficulty (PvE) or fairness (in PvP)

[rough charm]

If S+ updates, so those mods will also update, to bring in any changes.

[blissful perch]

That’s because it is. I can’t play official for the same reason…however for ark 2 discussion you kinda have to talk official because that’s what WC builds the game for

[vale mountain]

I guess my point is that with better Dino’s you give a lot of Dino’s new life and personality

When was the last time you used an allo

Unironically

[rough charm]

KBD can be tuned to remove some of those changes, if wanted.

[blissful perch]

I use allos often. But I also play PvE and intentionally play how I want. I’m aware that’s a bit abnormal

[vale mountain]

See I would but spino exists so like ya know

[rough charm]

But, it is nice to be able to carry an anky and auto harvest, and gather to 75% of weight.

[blissful perch]

Spinos can’t go in most caves. And ofc they have the same base hp as an allo 👌🏼

[blissful perch]

I think auto harvest anky was added to vanilla at some point right? I feeeeel like that happened

[vale mountain]

The allo can go into caves? On what maps? Genuine question

[fresh kayak]

Spino has 700 hp and allo has over 650hp or less so no

[split dove]

yh this year iirc

[thick moat]

Yeah but it just stops harvestibg when it gets full weight

[vale mountain]

See spino is just a versatile mount compared to an allo, which i guess is my point

Allo is a stepping stone to a rex

And if you are using an allo for its bleed, just use 1 thyla

[rough charm]

I hate to be that mod, but I have to be, but we should move these convos more to #unofficial-setup-help or #ark-survival-ascended

[south lance]

mostly insignificant difference tbf

[rough charm]

We got a bit of Ark 2 topic.

[fresh kayak]

still it's useless

[south lance]

unless hp scales differently

[blissful perch]

A buff to pack Dino’s in ark 2 would be a major boon to the allo, of that there’s no question

[untold ingot]

The only dinos really confirmed in ark2 are the rex, raptor, dodo, and aratai if that counts lol

[vale mountain]

Anyway my main point is that I hope WC talks to developers of popular mods and maybe we see something of a game similar to sonic mania where the end product is a 10/10 must buy

[fresh kayak]

hp scales per % so it makes a diff while breeding

[blissful perch]

My main point was they already do 🙂

[south lance]

ig it does exponentially change as you near cap

[blissful perch]

Yet another reason to pray the mutts away

[untold ingot]

Realistically speaking wildcard pays way more attention to its modding community compared to most games. Not all mods can be added into official, but with ark2 modding will be accessible to all platforms

[untold ingot]

Tbh its the player added levels on top of mutations that add the issues. But we have already discussed that point lol

[vale mountain]

That is true, again my point is that I hope we actually see that visible change as opposed to some under the hood changes

[blissful perch]

I’m saying we do. Often. 😂

[mint swan]

Ark 2h having mod support for all platforms is a godsend. Going from Steam to Win10 to play with friends was a nightmare.

[vale mountain]

Epic games

🤮

[untold ingot]

Ragnarok, fjordur and all other free maps would like to cry at not being visible changes lol

[south lance]

wait are the percentages different for each creature

[blissful perch]

Yes. And % per wild level and % per tame level are also different for each creature. The whole process is exponential

[south lance]

oh ok then ya its exponential

[untold ingot]

For player added levels?

[mint swan]

Win10 being for Xbox. None of those friends has a PC ^^ Epic Games is a joke imho.

[vale mountain]

Man y’all are spiteful lmao

[south lance]

for breeding levels tho ill consider tame levels too

[vale mountain]

I’m not out here trying to roast

[blissful perch]

No spite! Just giving you context so you have nothing/less to fear 🙂

[south lance]

creatures* ik players have linear stat growth

[untold ingot]

We get carried away some times, harm intended

[south lance]

^

i literally just want to argue

[blissful perch]

I only intend harm when someone claims mutation stacking to 250 wild points per stat is a positive thing for ark 2. Otherwise it’s banter

[untold ingot]

Wildcard is really good at paying attention to mods and really supporting their modders. They cant add everything, but a most of the time the really do give credit where credit is due

[slate pelican]

The only way I'd use the Epic Games launcher willingly is the day they create profiles like Steam. And basically everything Steam has that Epic doesn't. Once they do that then they have a shot. Until then Imma trash on it just cause I can 😂

[south lance]

"its so easy just use maewing bro"

[vale mountain]

Honestly I’m not worried about ark 2 being bad, I think I’m just worried about going into official server and being like “welp, time to Jack up rates and mod this shit because it’s unpleasant to play”

[fresh kayak]

I'm pretty sure Ark II won't have breeding (Just a guess)

[blissful perch]

That’s probably happening regardless. I dream of a world where it doesn’t but official is gonna be official…if they want the MMO style gameplay it’s gonna be painful like ark 1 on 1x

[untold ingot]

To be completely honest, if you dont like 1x now in ark1, youll probably jack up the rates anyway

[blissful perch]

1x is fine for ark 1 outside of breeding and taming timers

[mint swan]

real men play the OG .25x rates

[untold ingot]

Official in ark is intended to be a perpetual style of gameplay, I dont anticipate that to change for ark2 official

[blissful perch]

Real men go to work with ark running in the background you mean 😂

[south lance]

the one person who thinks mutation breeding is good i will chain them to a pc and force them to solo breed bloodstalkers to cap only at which point theyre free

[untold ingot]

Honestly, breeding timers are fine for a perpetual server, even on 1x.

[split dove]

hey man, if it warms the house while i'm gone then why not? 😂

[south lance]

^^^^^

ark increases my room temp by 2C

[untold ingot]

Some automation in feeding babies would be nice. Like I would really hate to see maewing and the tek trough functionality get removed

[untold ingot]

rookie numbers

[slate pelican]

Official has to be balanced keeping Mega tribes and big tribe PVP in line. It has to be balanced towards that IMO. Official is never meant for Solo or small friend group tribes. You just won't survive or be significant enough to matter

[south lance]

my rookie numbers are real

[untold ingot]

This is actually fact lol

[rugged flower]

I would hate to see cryopods go, but I have a feeling they are considered tek lol

[south lance]

you can but its such a dogshit method

[untold ingot]

I am 99% sure that cryos are confirmed to be removed for ark2

[vale mountain]

Honestly I wish servers weren’t region locked, having a tribe with people from different regions would alleviate some of that full time job shit I was talking about

[rugged flower]

Yeah, I know. Big sad

[south lance]

quetz platform + store in weird places

[blissful perch]

The tame manager tho is just gonna replace cryos

I suspect the QoL isn’t going anywhere

[rugged flower]

Tame manager?

[blissful perch]

Message from founder my good sir

[untold ingot]

Qol is important, but imo increased rates is not qol, its just cheese

[rugged flower]

Sheesh, I really have to look that up I suppose lol

[mint swan]

As long as we get some way to get our creatures unstuck, i'm down for whatever change WC wants for Ark 2.

[untold ingot]

Did I miss that? it doesnt ring a bell

[blissful perch]

It’s pinned

[south lance]

whos founder again

[blissful perch]

It’s only cheese if it’s not the default. If you balance around a default rate, and that rate is at a normal human schedule…not sure how that’s cheese

[blissful perch]

It’s extremely briefly mentioned is why you may have forgotten

[vale mountain]

See I love official for being able to have a community of people, that shit is awesome

Just don’t understand why a giga takes 1 full week to breed

[prisma pike]

2

[untold ingot]

I am not seeing it in the pins, am I missing something?

[vale mountain]

My bad, that furthers my point LOL

[blissful perch]

The fourth message

[rugged flower]

It's the fourth link down

[vale mountain]

Maybe my problem isn’t every rate but in fact just breeding rates on official, how about we just balance PvP and PvE separately????

[south lance]

have to do hundreds of times too

[south lance]

thats been the hope

[prisma pike]

Well you see if you could raise tames in an hour or two then it'd be laughably easy to fill cryofridges with tames and just go around wiping shit

[south lance]

doubles balance times tho

[untold ingot]

Hmm they just give the name of the system and no more details. Classic Wildcard 🤣

[south lance]

well maybe, atm they have to compromise between pve and pvp

[vale mountain]

Again I think ark 2 definitively will be better than the first, but I just want to be able to enjoy the official server with some random wankers

[untold ingot]

I think that something like that would be untenible in the long term as it would at least double the amount of prep and manhours to keep it running

[vale mountain]

I’m not asking for an hour, I’m asking for something that doesn’t demand attention span and only that for 3-8 hours

[rugged flower]

Yeah the tame manager was very vague, but I think it's probably true its a replacement for the Cryos.

[prisma pike]

Bro, all you do now is just check them every 8 hours for imprints and fill maewings/troughs

[untold ingot]

Tbh, most of breeding on official you dont actively have to be involved in

[vale mountain]

Is it a bad comparison to say destiny 2 does it? I don’t know wildcard studio size compared to bungie

[mint swan]

A lot peeps with full time jobs/responsibilities cant be bothered to put in the time to deal with the time requirements though. It's fine for official but not as a default since most people don't touch officials.

[untold ingot]

I would think so lol. They are completely different games

[vale mountain]

Or at least for PvP where the point is to raid each other and best Dino’s

PvE I see no reason why you can’t cut breeding times in half

Just mark Dino’s bred in PvE so that they can’t transfer to official PvP

[untold ingot]

Along breeding times, I actually thing that official rates (with maewing and tek troughs) are the most chill breeding rates. They only need attention once or twice a day, and with good planning that only needs to take like an hour max (even for the biggest amount of tames)

[prisma pike]

Most people I've met on official work full time jobs and have everything that everyone else has. Just a skill issue ig.

[vale mountain]

I mean I used to do it, but I literally wasn’t allowed to play any other game lol

[south lance]

megas already have effectively infinite tames to work with, lowering the bar for people to cap fridges just means bobs have a chance to do stuff more freely

[untold ingot]

I think the main reason people dont like it is because they are used to immediate progression (its not as big a factor on smalls because you can raid and get other peoples tames with little effort)

[south lance]

who you raiding on smalls that doesnt first require a war room

[vale mountain]

I don’t see a downside to that, that would make the game a lot more friendly to the new player

[untold ingot]

Not really a skill issue. More of an experience issue. A lot of people havent played official in a large tribe, and it is a huge pain to manage it all solo

[south lance]

ya its mostly fine imo

[untold ingot]

There are new raids literally everyday, just scouting with a turret/parasuar finds a lot of fun stuff

[south lance]

with actual loot?

capped shit n stuff

[untold ingot]

For a solo, literally everything is actual loot

[south lance]

oh

[untold ingot]

And tbf getting capped stuff on smalls is really easy. You literally just have to farm arb or dust and do a trade

[south lance]

i thought enough to support a small tribe lol

[untold ingot]

I mean, maybe. But that wasnt my point lol

[south lance]

ya fair

[untold ingot]

Most pve players like to feel progression faster because they have become accustomed to larger numbers == more fun

[vale mountain]

I think the main point all of us mostly agree on is that PvE should have faster breeding rates than that of PvP by a decent margin and you just look those Dino’s out of PvP so that the new player/solo experience isn’t as demanding and time consuming

For ark 2

[south lance]

i think half the issue is that scouting is something most people wont know how to do without significant experience

thats like the biggest barrier to getting loot for casuals

[untold ingot]

I am hoping breeding is changed so that numbers dont equate to quality of tames, and a player with 10 tames is as effective at the game as someone with 1000

[vale mountain]

I feel stupid but elaborate?

[untold ingot]

The only value in ark1 to having a significant amount of tames is the speed at which mutations are accumulated

[vale mountain]

So you are suggesting a mating interval being lowered

[gaunt coral]

what yall think will ark 2 release early 2023 or late

[vale mountain]

Late if not 2024

[untold ingot]

If mutations arent handled the same, and player added levels arent a thing, then mass breeding really isnt necessary

With an army of 50 dinos you can literally do any boss in ark1. The only reason to have more than that is the breeding for mutations. So no I dont want lower breeding intervals I want an entire paradigm shift that adds value to each dino, not just 1/100

Breeding rates are fine imo

[vale mountain]

Ideally, I just wanna breed a cool line of spinos man lmao

Which is only like a 3 day timer

[untold ingot]

And takes like 4 hours max of dedicated playtime in that time

[south lance]

imagine inbreeding stat

[vale mountain]

So you want every dino to have a purpose essentially

[untold ingot]

Kind of yeah. I dont really want throwaway tames in pve. Granted you need them for pvp so breeding operations will be bigger. But for pve there is no real reason imo to need hundreds of the same type of dino

[south lance]

you couldnt just mass produce dinos from a single line cause they all get 80% reduced health after 8 generations of mass breed

[vale mountain]

Correct, I absolutely agree

[south lance]

or idk this doesnt work if you get enough high stat dinos from separate lines

[untold ingot]

And if you only need like 10 tames to beat the game, they why would a couple weeks of gameplay be too much to get them

I think the 1x rates are just fine for official

[south lance]

1x rates suck

i just use gen2 to get behemoth gates for my metal 💀

its faster than smelting it

[vale mountain]

Like way long ago I had a line of spinos on official island that bred to have a BRIGHT red fin mutation and no one else on that server had something similar, so whenever you saw a tamed spino with a bright red fin out and about you knew it was my tribe without having to think. Breeding was just a slog to get that specific coloration onto a bunch of good spino boys

[untold ingot]

If blueprints are removed (so you dont need 10000 hide for a single saddle) and instead a system of more advanced crafting taht requires more specialized parts is implemented, then I think harvest rates are fine as well

[south lance]

decrease metal cook times

then its fine

[vale mountain]

Make things stack higher

[untold ingot]

Decrease metal demand amounts, then its fine lol

[south lance]

sure that works

make foundations 10 instead of 50 metal

a single foundation takes a ref forge like 30 minutes to cook apparently

[untold ingot]

Its a much better way imo. Using component crafting (kind of like farming for a boss fight types of materials) you wouldnt need a massive amount of resources unless you are building a really stupid big castle. And if you are doing that on official you better have the dedication to maintain it imo

[untold ingot]

That is why indie forges are a thing

[mint swan]

Feel like ark2 crafting is gonna be similar to atlas

[south lance]

ya but indy forges only last like a week

[untold ingot]

I dont know atlas crafting

[south lance]

unless you wanna commit hard to the one base spot with multiple people

[untold ingot]

Are you talking pvp or pve?

[south lance]

pvp

idk if pve has a major issue here since you can just set a bunch of shit to cook overnight

[mint swan]

PVE plays itself once you're setup

[untold ingot]

I have never had issue with my indie forges being blown, but typically I either hide them really well or actually build a base around them

[south lance]

theres spots you can put indy forges that people dont know about even now?

[untold ingot]

You dont have to place them where people dont know. Only where people dont look

[south lance]

people look everywhere that can be built on?

besides the air and maybe some water ig

[untold ingot]

That is objectively not true lol

I had an indie forge in the tundra cliffs on val that lasted for months without even being looked at (on smalls btw)

[south lance]

🤨

ill have to test that this month

though id need to start a smalls character

[untold ingot]

All you have to do is find the right server and dont get noticed. Its not really that hard if you stay small

[south lance]

i havent played enough to confirm or deny though ive had a base hidden inside a broken looking stone base last for 3 weeks before i quit

ig its not impossible

[untold ingot]

It isnt impossible. In fact I would probably say that most people probably start out that way, at least until they get the resources to actually claim a decent location

Point being, increased rates on any of gathering, breeding, taming imo would drastically reduce the actual value of having perpetual servers. Instead of that I think reducing the player added levels (nerfing mutations), nerfing fliers, and removing cryos is a much better way to go

[south lance]

prob

wonder how tame storage for solos worked before ext

[untold ingot]

I imagine it was rough lol

[south lance]

youd need more cracks and stuff to shove things in

[untold ingot]

Ratholes werent viable really

[south lance]

why not

i mean ya you cant fit most dinos

but youd have something for your loot and maybe the dino that could fit inside

[untold ingot]

The tames were also a lot weaker and scouting for raids was more difficult than it is now, so that helped people a lot

[south lance]

if ini editting didnt exist the jungles would be perfect for this

especially the ones in later maps since they are often on very rough terrain

valguero jungle comes to mind

and lost island

lost island especially so since its almost impossible to run through with how dense it is

[untold ingot]

From the scenes we have seen of ark2 so far I am hoping it is at least as difficult to see, and I am hoping ini gets fixed or at least enforced

[blissful perch]

I’d rather see player levels get a substantial buff and wild level variation get significantly reduced, since I see that as a better way to reach the goal of needing official (and not official) folks to dedicate time to their tames

[untold ingot]

What do you mean by giving player levels a significant buff?

[blissful perch]

Eggs that pop with 4x the wild stats of their wild parents does not strike me as high commitment to your active tames. It feels like it’s incentivizing spam

[blissful perch]

The levels added to a tame from experience should be more important than any variation in wild stats by a good margin

[untold ingot]

Leveling a tame to 4x or 10x a wild tame is not conducive to fun gameplay imo

[blissful perch]

Leveling a fresh tame all the way to max is nothing compared to hatching a single capped tame

A max player leveled fresh tame spino in all melee I believe does what? 200 and change? Whereas you can get over 1k damage with a capped line. Unless I’m smoking some wild shit

[untold ingot]

Uh, technically you still have to level the capped tame up to max too lol, before it really becomes usefull

I dont disagree that mutations are an issue, but its the percentage based player added levels that really take it to the broken level

[blissful perch]

The gap between a fresh wild tame, even one with MAX player levels, and a fresh capped tame is immeasurable

The % on top of % makes it way worse ofc

[untold ingot]

I mean, imo its the % on the % that makes it an issue

[blissful perch]

If player levels simply added +X% to the base stat, the issue wouldn’t be nearly as bad, especially if mutations capped at 20

[untold ingot]

Thats why I would much prefer a skill tree or perk tree for dinos rather than leveled stats

I would personally prefer getting rid of all player added % levels.

[blissful perch]

I just don’t want an ugly stat fest

[untold ingot]

At least the unlimited ones

[blissful perch]

It’s what ruined the hunted for me…so cool that your creature had to be leveled from scratch but so dumb that the strategy became “hahaha just mutation stack them from level 1 and now you can dumpster the map like you’re used to”

[untold ingot]

The hunted mod allowed for significanlty more player added stats (I think 225) so you didnt actually need any mutations to just beat everything

[blissful perch]

Yes, but the % on % issue held: each level you added from level 1 was worth WAY less than if you got even one mutation

[untold ingot]

So again, its not necessarily mutations that is the problem. With a reasonable limit on mutations (say 20 like it was supposed to be) and a removal of the % on % issue, I think it literally fixes the issue you have with mutations without actually removing a fun game mechanic

[split dove]

like Raq said, i'd also love dino specific skill trees more than the mutation system, if the player can get it why can't they give it to dinos as well

[blissful perch]

Yep. 20/20 hard cap is the most sensible compromise I can think of

[south lance]

dunno what harvest levels do but are they similar

[untold ingot]

Like I dont think removing a huge part of ark gameplay is a viable option, but having the correct balancing in it would work

[blissful perch]

Mutations NOT being a huge part of gameplay is a fantastic goal to strive for

[untold ingot]

Harvest levels in theris and moschops are the closest to a skill tree that we have

[south lance]

aight

[blissful perch]

But I think fully removing it will ruffle more feathers than it’s worth, and a 20/20 cap will nerf it without creating as much chaos

[untold ingot]

That is a personal opinion that I actually do disagree with lol

I enjoy mutations, I think it just needs better algorithms to handle it

[south lance]

breeding can remain without nutations

[blissful perch]

I like breeding sim games. But ark is an awful breeding sim game

[untold ingot]

And I think that is due to primitive malfunctioning algorithms

[south lance]

what are those

[blissful perch]

I’d rather experience the ark breeding system as a mobile idle game 😂

[south lance]

oh nvm

i wonder if itd be nice to have a more flexible base game

[untold ingot]

I think with better algorithms (albeit much more complex) breeding would actually become more enjoyable for everyone

[south lance]

idk if thats possible with design principles

but like mod support kinda implies this i think?

[south lance]

i can agree with that

[blissful perch]

If the time commitment is the same it’s a problem. Unless ark wants to admit to being more rpg than anything else

[untold ingot]

Removing value to continually breeding reduces ark to a taming simulator that you finish in a week

[south lance]

i mean you could also pad the non breeding progression more with content

[blissful perch]

A survival game is about surviving and being scrappy. Sitting in a safe place breeding tames that clean sweep the environment doesn’t really give me survival vibes

[untold ingot]

Again the point I have been trying to make, there really isnt that much time commitment required. Just duration commitment

[south lance]

the material progression line atm is too fast

[blissful perch]

That IS commitment. And a serious one

[south lance]

you only really need like 3 steps after note run

part of this is because bosses are cheesable

[untold ingot]

It literally only takes a couple hours a week to do breeding on official rates. So unless you are trying to speedrun the game it really isnt that bad

[south lance]

though i dont think breeding for 3 weeks is very fun just to access the ability to use tek pants

[untold ingot]

I take issue with this lol

[blissful perch]

On PvE I assume? Because PvP I can’t imagine you’d avoid a wipe doing that little

[tropic crag]

Objectively false

[untold ingot]

Then join a large tribe, or dont expect to compete?

[blissful perch]

I’m clarifying which format you’re speaking about. It seems you meant PvE

[south lance]

you can get away with breeding on pvp for an hour a week

its cheesy but possible

[untold ingot]

Subjectively, at least for pve. For pvp if you actually have a tribe it is also subjective how much concerted effort you have to have

[untold ingot]

Not really, it works for both actually

[south lance]

i already mentioned quetz base, raq prob has some good spots here and there too

[blissful perch]

Ofc the major issue is that the hour is spread out over 5-10 minute intervals every day

[south lance]

not necessarily due to cryos

[untold ingot]

You just cant be a solo and expect to compete with the breeding

[south lance]

but yes youd delay breeding from a couple days to months

[untold ingot]

With bad planning yes

[blissful perch]

With good planning please explain how you can condense all your breeding hours into a single play session

[south lance]

perhaps a major aspect pf this is that you can wait for an event

[untold ingot]

Typically on official you only breed one line, maybe two, and you can actually plan the schedule of the mating intervals to fit your schedule

[blissful perch]

Enlighten me how you can do multiple imprints for the SAME GIGA in one continuous two hours period in a given week

[south lance]

a 3x or 5x event can condense a lot of progress time down

[untold ingot]

You cant condense it into a single play session, but you can condense it into 30 min a day if you are really good at planning the timers

[south lance]

im not sure exactly how youd get to cap on offi

you can do reapers and wyverns tho

[untold ingot]

I did that when capping velos, I spend like 45 min a day and breed hundreds of eggs at a time

[south lance]

for boss, your only option is cheese

[untold ingot]

The point is, official can actually be less of a time commitment that everyone seems to assume lol

[south lance]

its cause of cheese which may or may not be applicable to ark2 logic

should cryos be considered cheese

[blissful perch]

You have to be “available” if not in fact than in perception at all times for official PvP (to avoid being wiped)

[untold ingot]

Perhaps, but again, in a big tribe you dont have to

[south lance]

cryos are the reason breeding in ark1 is possible

as a solo

this wouldnt necessarily work in ark2

[blissful perch]

It’s true, in a big tribe however you’re now basically employed by the tribe owners lest they remove you 😂

Very janky system to offer in a video game

[untold ingot]

I mean, sure Ill give that. So present a better system?

[south lance]

i think breeding in ark1 since gen2 is too specifiv to ark1 to be relevant to ark2

[blissful perch]

Most MMOs use a faction or guild system with a near limitless number of players that can join them

[tropic crag]

Then there's the issue of, you know, big tribes simply not letting you in lmao

[south lance]

primarily because of cryos

[blissful perch]

True; those mmo factions and guilds have player leadership but are owned by the devs…so they can’t be made exclusive

[south lance]

youd need to look at breedinf dynamics before extinction to apply this to ark2

[untold ingot]

If you are a rando bob they met on the beach, why would they give you access to all their hard work?

[south lance]

beta -alpha system is generally acceptable

[tropic crag]

My point exactly, then you have to breed for yourself lol

[south lance]

ik people in a beta tribe that didnt know how to farm wood without a theri and skiff

[untold ingot]

And it actually works phenomenally. It just needs to be manually implemented into the game ui imo

[tropic crag]

You're just furthering Shifter's idea imo

[blissful perch]

This is a tricky issue with a game where everyone is forced to share once in a tribe

[south lance]

(you can slot cap a vault on gen2 with tek suit and mushroom wood within an hour during event)

[untold ingot]

So then, the solution is to better the algorithm and approach. Not to scrap it all together

[blissful perch]

You’d probably want to default ownership to the individual instead of the tribe if you wanted to improve the system

Solution is to return to individual ownership

Players can then “make public” items and tames to their tribe mates

[south lance]

current breeding wouldnt work without cryos

[tropic crag]

Aka not have big tribe, in essence

[south lance]

not as a solo bob

[untold ingot]

I dont view that as a solution

[untold ingot]

I think that is correct to say

[south lance]

youd need to make food last longer

[blissful perch]

The worst case scenario is someone insides and ruins the PUBLIC tames and items. Everyone keeps their private stuff because an insider can’t access or use them

[south lance]

and have it so babies can eat enough food to last a couple days

[untold ingot]

The worst insiders are just the ones that turn of generators

[blissful perch]

The advantage of WC managing and being the ultimate authority on all guilds/factions is that reports of insiding can result in flat bans from all major factions

IE, an insider can’t be a repeat offender

[tropic crag]

Good thing generators likely won't be in Ark 2 then, eh?

[south lance]

wc manages insiding?

[untold ingot]

There will always be equivalent ways of turning off defenses

[tropic crag]

WC has DEFEATED insiding, more at 11

[untold ingot]

I dont think this is necessary or the best approach personally

[blissful perch]

I’m proposing a more standard MMO approach to handling tribes

[south lance]

oh ok

[tropic crag]

Objectively false

[south lance]

you could move a bronto in front of your turrets

thatd turn them off effectively

[untold ingot]

Demonstrate your logic on that or Ill take responses as just being a troll and I wont respond to more lol

[tropic crag]

We simply don't know anything in that regard, they very well could have defenses that, once set up, cannot be taken down without you destroying them manually

EZ

[untold ingot]

I have never actually seen how that works. But I am a fan of ark1's freedom of choice in how tribes work

[untold ingot]

They will always take maintenance to keep running, I dont expect that part will be taken out. And if it takes maintenance then it can be disabled

[blissful perch]

There’s pros and cons to both methods. Imo the pros outweigh the cons, and there’s less silly New World BS when there’s a top level system built into the game that creates more formal rules for tribe power and structure

[blissful perch]

Eve is a pretty good example iirc

[untold ingot]

I never got involved in that game, so I only have a primitive idea of how it works

[tropic crag]

Not if that maintenance is gated behind a feature like the fertilizer deposit, but only one way so you cannot take ammo/fert/whatever out

[blissful perch]

New world tribes were so powerful they determined the taxes in each town they controlled

[tropic crag]

There are ways, you said there weren't, simple as

[untold ingot]

I highly doubt that will be a thing

[tropic crag]

.

[blissful perch]

It certainly could be a thing to prevent people from insiding. Not sure what the QoL/inside proof ratio is gonna be on features like that one

Since for PvE obviously that’s a flat QoL downgrade

[untold ingot]

I dont personally like the idea of a studio run/managed tribe system. I much prefer the instanced tribe system that allows you to make and manage your own tribe. I think it just needs better supporting algorithms and in game ui

[blissful perch]

It’s not managed by WC anymore than the current ticket system

[untold ingot]

I must have misunderstood then

[tropic crag]

Out here solving not-current-issues like my name's Da Vinci

[untold ingot]

I mean technically you didnt solve anything lol

[blissful perch]

An easy image is that each server when opened has three “factions” you can choose to align with. The factions are premade by WC, and you can report players same as you would to WC via a ticket and WC can consider revoking their ability to join a faction

[untold ingot]

How would that help gameplay?

[blissful perch]

Within each faction there’s adminship/etc that’s all managed by players

[blissful perch]

You don’t have players performing enforcement

[untold ingot]

How is it handled then?

[blissful perch]

So you don’t need beta/alpha segregation to cultivate trust…because violating trust now comes with the sizable risk of being reported and banned from being in ANY tribe

[remote shard]

Rip pvp 😦

[blissful perch]

The ticket system. Like in any other MMO where players are reported to the studio admins

[split dove]

[tropic crag]

The tribe system definitely needs an overhaul, regardless

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I personally think that the downsides odfthat would be worse than the upsides

[blissful perch]

True. It’s been dead since 2017 😭

[remote shard]

Pvp will never be the same

[untold ingot]

It actually hasnt. It has just been harder to start from scratch

[tropic crag]

Good

[remote shard]

Pvp is why I love ark 1

[tropic crag]

Different PvP in a different game? Makes sense to me lol

[untold ingot]

Like I get the idea of having factions would help beginners have a sense of progression/ commitment. But it would take out all the competitiveness of the game

[blissful perch]

Not sure how that outcome would happen. It would be functionally identical to tribes beyond admin and reporting structure

[remote shard]

Yes it's brocken but I they could have fixed it easier than making a different game

[tropic crag]

Objectively false

[remote shard]

It's just the op as fuck dinos than make it not fun

[untold ingot]

If I am assigned to a faction or pick a random faction on each server that I join, there is no actual competitiveness or reason to put effort to compete, because if we are doing bad I just leave and join a different faction

[remote shard]

Land pvp fun af

[south lance]

without the current line of op dinos you have different op dinos

[untold ingot]

Totally agree

[south lance]

op just means meta

[blissful perch]

You could argue that’s identical with the current tribe structure. Just because I didn’t lay out rules for joining factions doesn’t mean there are none

[remote shard]

I mean it as enjoyable

[south lance]

fair enough

[blissful perch]

There’s often a substantial cooldown period (or a hard limit) on faction swaps

[south lance]

wdym by fun land pvp though

[blissful perch]

And while you’re out of a faction you’re fresh meat

[untold ingot]

Fair enough, so give me an idea how that would work lol

[tropic crag]

Obviously, there'd be a cooldown

[south lance]

like players fighting each other directly or land tames

[tropic crag]

Don't be obtuse

[untold ingot]

If I can create a new character then there is no cooldown objectively speaking

[remote shard]

Directly Bola nets exc

[blissful perch]

Well I did reference the Eve system, which you could look up to save me typing an essay

[south lance]

oh ok

[remote shard]

Op dinos are ass

[south lance]

i mean theres always deathmatch servers

ark does have a unique player combat system tho

player up time is insane

[remote shard]

I there's not a lot of games that have this kind of pvp

[untold ingot]

Ark2 foot pvp will be very different than ark1