40k-lore-chat

[green loom]

Oh Kill team might be up your alley ig

[crisp heath]

Yeah iv been looking at boxes lately very very tempted

But it's been so long

[queen laurel]

this is not the deepest rpg but i genuinely want to see it adapted in a game

[crisp heath]

Is that like a Dnd kinda game

[queen laurel]

yeah it's a tabletop role playing game

[crisp heath]

Always wanted to get into those kinda games they look really good

Hard to find people to play w

[green loom]

It's easy w friends

Not that I have any

[crystal forum]

you have me

[green loom]

True, but then the 2nd layer of problems is timezones

[crisp heath]

How would playing this over the phone even work haha

Oh I'd assume you'd both have to have the box or book and go from there nvm lol

[queen laurel]

yeah I would play a session of tabletop RPGS with everyone here if i could but time zones are funny

[outer wave]

^

[green loom]

They're all available in PDFs and you have ample tools to simulate a table

[outer wave]

A tabletop game with the lore chat guys would be fun

If incredibly chaotic

[queen laurel]

i will bash your head in first chance you do something funny

[crisp heath]

Would u be able to use these tools on a mobile phone?

[green loom]

Dunno if roll 20 works on phones

[outer wave]

Thats the equivalent of me breathing

[crisp heath]

I'll have to look into it I'm really interested

[gray umbra]

A dark heresy crpg would make me nut ngl

[crisp heath]

Dude I just looked at what dark heresy is and that sounds awesome

[crystal forum]

a roleplaying game with the lore regulars would immediately devolve into infighting

it would be beautiful

[queen laurel]

I'm betting it now

If we can somehow make it to 15 minutes of not trying to kill each other

that would be world record

[crisp heath]

There's so much iv been missing out on , this looks like it could be more fun than wh40k

[gray umbra]

Give me a plasma gun and i will make sure to be behind jay when i overheat

[queen laurel]

i will jury rig an entire room to probably just throw Schrodinger in it

Blowing him up and me included because of the blast radius I forgot to account for

[crystal forum]

you can get behind me any time babe

[outer wave]

Man I would not catch a break with you as a DM

[queen laurel]

oh no i would play as an ork

and go out of my way to kick you every time I have the chance

DM ing is not for me because

i would throw a bloodthirster at you first chance i'd get

i am not responsible enough for the role

[crystal forum]

dilara would be DM

she is evil in an equal amount to everybody

[outer wave]

Dilara does more than enough parenting for this server; Im not sure her DMing on top would be fantastic for her mental health

[queen laurel]

https://youtu.be/3or6NA5rmlM?si=SXprnJ8ztKQSUDWe literally in some shape or form our characters will just be this

i cannot trust anyone here to be responsible with power

[crisp heath]

It's crazy when you realise how far we are through the actual story so far 💀

Barely even a 8th

[crystal forum]

half of us would be dead by our own means

[queen laurel]

yeah I'd probably stumble into some giant monster or accidentally get into a very devastating accident

[crystal forum]

"i decide to charge the orc warband because that is what my character would do"

[raven stone]

Me:
always randomly appears and asks “what’s happening?”

[gray umbra]

Ill roll 1 on some athletics check and discharge my gun into my face when i tripped

[queen laurel]

since i'm i will be playing as a blood axe probably

I will be a sneaky type of ork

[crystal forum]

and you'll somehow survive every fight due to sheer luck

[queen laurel]

Right until I accidentally blow myself up when i was jury rigging a trap

[crystal forum]

dilara DM'ing would make the gun blow off your whole head

[arctic talon]

Not really

Guns have safeties smh

[crystal forum]

dilara

what would you be wolf

[queen laurel]

yeah she would place a room full of explosive barrels beneath you and through some hilarious rolls cause it to blow up leveling a good amount of the sector

[crystal forum]

a comedic amount of explosive barrels

literally making us play minesweeper in roleplay to avoid them

[vagrant fox]

I am incredibly responsible with power, which is why I'm never allowed to have admin roles

[crystal forum]

i thought that was because of your extensive list of warcrimes

[vagrant fox]

my friends won't play that post apocalyptic far cry with me because i blowtorch dogs 😔

[crystal forum]

that game sucks anyways

[queen laurel]

yeah you look like a dog welder type of guy

[crystal forum]

isn't there a marvel character who welds dogs

[gray umbra]

Is that like his mutant power

[queen laurel]

dc

[queen laurel]

he's Dogwelder

he welds dogs to people

[crisp heath]

What 😆

[crystal forum]

actual creepypasta level character

[queen laurel]

yeah do not question it

[crisp heath]

I had many questions and realise there best left un asked

[vagrant fox]

makes sense to me

The marvels just throw any shit at the wall, it's mildly interesting

[tall plinth]

Don’t worry he only welds dead dogs to people

[queen laurel]

that does not make it better like that does not make it any better

[tall plinth]

He’s not painfully welding a living dog to another being, makes it a little better

[crisp heath]

Where is he acquiring said dead dogs from

I have so many more questions

[tall plinth]

Idk

[crisp heath]

That is true

[celest dome]

Honestly if I had power, I'd probably end up as either neutral or villain, kinda like Quicksilver, just using my power for petty shit

[tall plinth]

If I had true god powers, I’d be neutral because I decide then what is neutral

[crisp heath]

Man I dont even know what I'd do with power

[celest dome]

Murder ? What for
Let me just steal something or what ever

[queen laurel]

yeah I would be honest if i truly have unlimited power i would probably just continue living with like luxury

But of course still help people once in a while because I'm not that much of A bastard

i have the power to help people with the flick of my hand may as well help them like it's a miracle

[celest dome]

I would not even go for full luxury, just buy a cottage, and stuff like that

[tall plinth]

If I had a super power, I’m choosing god mode, I see no reason to choose any other power- you literally bend reality on a whim, you can do, have, be anything

[queen laurel]

I mean luxury in like using my imagination to conjure up dimensional space where i can customize it on how it looks

[crisp heath]

Yeah I would probably do the same

[queen laurel]

i'm not gonna buy a mansion those are like for runts

[crisp heath]

Like as in the make it look like a miracle

[queen laurel]

A dimensional space that is wide and has the essentials of a good house is good enough for me

[crisp heath]

Oof I did not read that correctly

Well if I had powers and had to help someone I would do it in a way where it seemed like a miracle*

[tall plinth]

I’d probably be a menace for a little while

Mess with people

Random shit

[crisp heath]

I think I would honestly mess w a few people too

[tall plinth]

I’d spawn an elephant in the middle of Detroit and watch the ants be baffled

[crisp heath]

Gotta balance out the good w some chaotic nonsense

[vagrant fox]

destroy canada

[tall plinth]

that too

[queen laurel]

Or make Godzilla real and throw him in africa

no that might be going too far hold on

[tall plinth]

dies of dehydration, carcass feeds thousands

[crisp heath]

Bring back the scary dinosaurs from the sea but keep them at the bottom of the ocean

[queen laurel]

Well he eats radiation so he's probably gonna b line to the greatest source of it on our planet

[tall plinth]

I’d do a lot of poking and prodding if humanity just to watch everything go down and see how slight changes alter behavior

[queen laurel]

well I would probably vaporize dumb people on twitter as a pastime i'm gonna be honest

[tall plinth]

If everyone on earth woke up one day and their hair was an inch longer, would anyone notice? Would anyone question it? Literally everyone has longer hair now, did anything really happen?

That’s the sorta stuff I’d occupy my time with

[crisp heath]

What if

Bear with me

Everyone wakes up bald

[tall plinth]

erase all hair from paintings, photos, etc but keep everyone’s memory of hair

[celest dome]

What if you were bald

[queen laurel]

i've had my hair gotten so thick cutting it with a electric razor became difficult

so what's the point

[crisp heath]

I'm jealous

I'm starting to lose my hair

Lmao I'm 25

[tall plinth]

During lockdowns it almost got that bad for me

[queen laurel]

To be honest I would probably just keep my powers to myself, I have God like power but I will only use it to make my life definitely easier

[tall plinth]

Easier? You have god powers life is irrelevant

[queen laurel]

yeah but simple pleasures in life are fun you know

[crisp heath]

The thing is we would get bored

And that could be dangerous

[tall plinth]

how? You can undo any mistakes you made

Nothing can go wrong

[crisp heath]

Ah I didn't think of that

[queen laurel]

yeah that's the thing though being wrong sometimes is a good thing

Like I would use my powers to definitely reverse the consequence but i think i would practice restraint

only using it when absolutely necessary

[crisp heath]

If anyone does get powers hopefully it's someone like you hahah

I know how ridiculous that sounded but

[tall plinth]

Oh shit this is the 40k-lore-chat channel, I forgor

[queen laurel]

we do random topics like this from time to time

this is nothing special no worries

[arctic talon]

40k lore time

[crystal forum]

no

[arctic talon]

what do you think Frenzon tastes like

[queen laurel]

considering they make it into an energy drink pretty good

[tall plinth]

Uh erm, how about them checks notes chaos worshippers

[arctic talon]

I think we should give frenzon

to the rejects

It would be very funny

[queen laurel]

delish

[crystal forum]

it tastes like freon, the AC cooling liquid

[queen laurel]

Give them a six pack of these

[arctic talon]

lol

[tall plinth]

we should give all ogryns a handle of Tito’s and a pack of American Spirits, then this whole thing would be over in days

[crisp heath]

Give them some rum

[crystal forum]

still cant believe they added a heavy stubber but not a heavy bolter

[crisp heath]

I know right

[arctic talon]

why

heavy stubber feels more iconic as an ogryn gun to me

[crystal forum]

because you touch yourself at night wolf

[celest dome]

Give the Reject that druk that cause people to become Psykers (Ogryn can survive it

[crisp heath]

The auto cannon makes sense

[arctic talon]

LOL

fuck it actually

Just give the Rejects Drukhari combat drugs

[crystal forum]

there was already the double

[crisp heath]

Jeeez

[arctic talon]

this will not have negative consequences to their lifespan or mental state

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah no way

[crystal forum]

heavy bolter is like the most common militarum heavy weapon

[queen laurel]

FUCK IT WE BALL

[crisp heath]

Just like having some vitamins

[celest dome]

No you know, that drug, but treat it as a ranged weapon for the Ogryn, stick yourself then your have some peril ammo

[crisp heath]

Good for the heart

[arctic talon]

lol

[crystal forum]

if only the combat stims in game werent so useless

except the health one

[dapper gyro]

Bane time

[arctic talon]

wdym

they're great

let me kill even better

[crystal forum]

you only use like 2

[celest dome]

@crystal forum @arctic talon
Autocannon shouldn't suit the same uses that Heavy Stubber brought tbh

[arctic talon]

I use them all tbh

[crystal forum]

well you're weird

[crisp heath]

They go off

Just gotta know when to use em

[arctic talon]

^

its the good shit™️

[celest dome]

I use them cause I'm a drug addict, give me beers that don't give buffs and my character will use them all

[crystal forum]

autocannon would be a slower firing weapon with small splash damage

mechanically

[celest dome]

Or piercing

[dapper gyro]

Red stim kill boss extremely fast

[crystal forum]

maybe a variant with no splash but extra pierce

[dapper gyro]

Blue clear hordes in a second

[celest dome]

Not all Autocannon are not with explosive rounds

[crisp heath]

Yellow is ability regen

[arctic talon]

blue go zoom

[crisp heath]

Green is health

[celest dome]

Splash being kept for Heavy Bolter

[crystal forum]

im just saying mechanically how it should be added to not be useless and be unique

[dapper gyro]

Yellow = spamming VoC or whatever ability you need.

[crystal forum]

but heavy bolter would have big magazine

[vagrant fox]

Inject me with every drug man, I'll pop off and destroy everything before me

[crystal forum]

that could work too

[dapper gyro]

If you think that anything but heal is useful, it is really a skill issue.

[crystal forum]

problem with splash is it's borked against hordes, way too good

[crisp heath]

The heavy bolter from space marine 2 is pretty satisfying

[crystal forum]

i think it sucks

[celest dome]

I'd rather have the old type of Autocannon than the Gunlugger one tbh

[crisp heath]

I prefer it to the heavuy plasma

[crystal forum]

it should not have a cooling mechanic like why was that necessary when it does so little damage

[dapper gyro]

Also, as psyker in havoc, I can put up 5th bubbles before the 1st one expires with yellow.

[crystal forum]

the one on the right?

[celest dome]

Right is Gunlugger

[crystal forum]

that's literally a tripod autocannon with a grip

ah

i dont like the left one

cylinder mag is iconic to autocannon

[celest dome]

I wouldn't go as far to call it iconic

[crystal forum]

name another 40k gun with a similar look

[dapper gyro]

Imagine orgryn with the SM suppressor auto cannon.

[crystal forum]

accelerator autocannon

[celest dome]

Autocannon aren't used that often, that's why I'm saying they're not iconic

[crystal forum]

well i use them often

[crisp heath]

Is las better than auto?

[crystal forum]

as in autoguns?

[arctic talon]

Autoguns sorta

[arctic talon]

Mostly yes

[celest dome]

Same shape

[arctic talon]

Autocannon vs Las cannon is dif use cases

[crisp heath]

Yeah

[dusk patrol]

That’s a lascannon though

[tall plinth]

I think if we gave each ogryn akimbo 1911s we could win this war

[celest dome]

But has similar shape

[crystal forum]

and yet rule wise and even in darktide both have their uses!!!

[celest dome]

Lascannon and Multilaser though

[crystal forum]

multilas does NOT look like an autocannon wdym

[crisp heath]

Whats the different uses If u don't mind me asking

[celest dome]

The one i sent does

[crystal forum]

that's a multilas??

[celest dome]

yes

[crystal forum]

i thought they always had rotary barrels like solar auxilia

there's tanks that have multiple lascannons that arent called multilas

[crystal forum]

autoguns can shoot very fast and lasguns are very economical for the militarum

[celest dome]

I don't think Multilaser actually rotate like gatling guns

[queen laurel]

Yeah lasguns also don't have to account for bullet drop

allowing them to work on a variety of environments no problem

charging them is also surprisingly easy

sunlight tossing them on a fire

you theoretically have infinite ammo

so long as you can find a way to charge it

[crisp heath]

Ohh interesting so like high grav worlds and other harsh environments

[crystal forum]

aint no way

[queen laurel]

yeah

[celest dome]

Honestly the only way I could see Las weapon be ill suited for a battle field is if there is a lot of smoke coverage, and thing like that

[crisp heath]

I never thought about that

[crystal forum]

ok but autoguns are cooler

that's the deciding factor

[crisp heath]

I prefer las

[celest dome]

Where the las weapon would lose coherency in the smoke and such

[dapper gyro]

At least from the lore, Las are more ammo efficient, no bullet drop powerful vs unarmoured.
Projectiles are overall lighter, less prone to catastrophic failure, better vs armoured because of the penetration and shattering hard plates.

[celest dome]

Phosphor > Las, Arc, Bolt and Stub > Auto and Plasma

[crystal forum]

why is plasma placed so low on your MFK list

[celest dome]

I never liked Plasma weapons in any game (SM2 though is really a bad treatment of it iirc

[crystal forum]

plasma guns do look boring to me too

volkite looks so much cooler

[dapper gyro]

Darktide is the only game with fun and more lore accurate plasma.

[arctic talon]

Arc is above phosphor

Arc is an anti tank weapon

That shit blows holes in Russ’s

[celest dome]

Likes

Not necessarily strenght

[arctic talon]

Oh

I’m dumb

[celest dome]

Otherwise Plasma would be higher too

[arctic talon]

💀

[crystal forum]

where do you place melta

[arctic talon]

I wish the explosion didn’t always kill you

So it’s even more accurate

Sometimes you just get horrific burns

[crisp heath]

Meltas very neat

[queen laurel]

cacti, you're thrown into age of sigmar, and you are gonna become a mercenary, you are not including chaos in this one because you are a mercenary but what race would you work as, all three alliances work destruction death order you name it, but not chaos

[tall plinth]

Oh wait actually yeah

[crisp heath]

100%

[tall plinth]

I need rum drunk ogryns not vodka drunk

[crystal forum]

i like melta because it's not treated as some rare weapon. it's just a tool for killing tanks, nothing special

[celest dome]

you are not including chaos

Probably Order, try to work for the Cities of Sigmar and the Arkanauts
@queen laurel

[crisp heath]

Same anyone can get there hands on it

It's not a relic or relatively hard to aquire

[crystal forum]

and it has a serious drawback too, you have to be suicidal to get in range to use it as a regular human

[queen laurel]

alright what type of dwarf would you be science man

[dapper gyro]

Autogun in lore can also use specialty ammo, which makes up for the no power level adjustment of the lasgun.

[crisp heath]

Isn't it only like 5 feet or something

Which is really no range at all 💀

[crystal forum]

i dont remember exactly but very much in killing range of most things that the melta is meant to shoot

[arctic talon]

Man stopper rounds my beloved

[celest dome]

Endrinmaster, are you trying to rope me into a rpg campaign ?

[dapper gyro]

Incendiary and armour shredder, too.

[queen laurel]

no i'm just bored and this is one of my ways of entertaining myself

[crystal forum]

you all forget nemesis bullets

[queen laurel]

asking someone on how they would deal on a hypothetical scenario

Wolf definitely knows this habit of mine

[crystal forum]

the main character killing bullets

[queen laurel]

He is experienced with dealing with it

[crisp heath]

What about the legion of the dammed special weapons ?

Don't they have some special stuff going on

[celest dome]

But ye, Endrinmaster, mechanics and electricity is my stuff (Aetheric Navigator could work too)

[dapper gyro]

Advanced version of autogun can curve the bullets to hit enemies behind cover.

[crystal forum]

that's nemesis guns headass

[dapper gyro]

But then most of them become bolters.

[crisp heath]

Oh hahaha

[crystal forum]

keep in mind bolters use completely different types of projectiles than auto weapons

[arctic talon]

They’re daemons

Well

Pretty much daemons

[crisp heath]

Bolter bullets go brrrr

[arctic talon]

Their guns work like daemon weapons

[crystal forum]

they're called bolts

rocket ammunition

[arctic talon]

Ignore armor

Have other horrifying effects

Violate the laws of physics

[queen laurel]

and straight up hurts your spirit?

[arctic talon]

Well prolly

Usually people die

When they get shot by the Legion of the damned

[crystal forum]

yet they use millenia old bolters

[arctic talon]

Just like how people die when they get shot by daemons

[arctic talon]

Its not a normal bolter tbh

[dapper gyro]

Usually?

[arctic talon]

They’re essentially bottomless

[crisp heath]

Hurts the neighbor from collateral too

[arctic talon]

Sometimes you survive and you explode into warp fire

[crisp heath]

And the neighbors neighbor

[arctic talon]

Then you die

[crystal forum]

so a regular book bolter

[crisp heath]

Maybe even there neighbor if the walls were thin

[arctic talon]

No

Because they do reload in books

Legion of the damned

Are explicitly mentioned to never be seen reloading

[queen laurel]

they're probably the lesser demons of the imperium

that would make saints the greater demons

[crisp heath]

I was just going to say I remeber something about warpfire coated bullets or something

[crystal forum]

if these things are considered lesser then holy shit

[arctic talon]

They’re just daemons

Lol

That’s what the legion of the damned are

They get banished by the cadian pylons

Weaker around blanks

[arctic talon]

And make cogitators freak out

[dapper gyro]

Loyalist daemons

[queen laurel]

so like they just pop up on random places on the galaxy when they are needed

[arctic talon]

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[crisp heath]

I reckon they are one of the lost legions

[arctic talon]

They’re not

[crisp heath]

Oh

[crystal forum]

soul drinkers are the lost legion smh

[arctic talon]

They’re explicitly warp beings

[celest dome]

Cursed Foundling or dead SM

[dapper gyro]

Remember, the warp is not 100% controlled by chaos. There are things from the warp that have control of their own.

[arctic talon]

As for how they were made we don’t know

But they’re distinctly dead SM often

[celest dome]

With What's his head leading them or somehting

[arctic talon]

There’s a heresy era UM

[arctic talon]

Not Ferrus

It’s not Ferrus

[crystal forum]

it's not like demons are manufactured

[arctic talon]

The thing in the webway wasn’t the legion

[celest dome]

IH loss again

[arctic talon]

The LOTD are weird creatures

They might be marine ghost daemons

They might be just daemons that look like marines

[crystal forum]

and we will never get a straight answer

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Prolly for the best

But GW seems pretty dead set on them being daemons but imperium

[dapper gyro]

Some people recognize members of the LotD when they were alive.

[crystal forum]

idk why imperium having demons is kept a secret

[arctic talon]

Well it’s not

[crystal forum]

or half secret

[celest dome]

Saints and stuff are known

[arctic talon]

People just refuse to swallow the daemon pill

[crystal forum]

whatever GW is doing

[arctic talon]

Regarding LOTD

[crystal forum]

celestine is so clearly a demon

[arctic talon]

She isn’t

She’s more like Kharn

[crisp heath]

Warp being?

[celest dome]

Daemonprince

[arctic talon]

Or Abby D

Mortal with a fuck ton of warp juice in them

[crystal forum]

she literally evaporates during cadia because of the pylons wolf @arctic talon

[arctic talon]

She doesn’t evaporate

She gets heavily depowered

[crystal forum]

she shrinks then disappears

i read the damn book

[arctic talon]

She does not

[median star]

how common is centurion armor compared to terminator

[crisp heath]

Is there beings older than the gods of chaos?

[arctic talon]

She doesn’t get banished to the warp

[queen laurel]

wait saints are mortal?

[arctic talon]

Maybe?

[arctic talon]

Yes

Most saints only come back once

[crystal forum]

well she still disappears from the story

[queen laurel]

huh

neat

[arctic talon]

Celestine is one of few exceptions

[crystal forum]

like where else could she have gone

[arctic talon]

Well she’s in the campaign book

She gets her ass beat

By abbadon

[celest dome]

Didn't Saint Sabbat come back twice ?

[arctic talon]

And shanks him

[crystal forum]

it happens at the very end

[arctic talon]

Before getting dragged away

Lol

[dapper gyro]

Celestine enjoys getting stabbed.

[arctic talon]

She doesn’t get banished to the warp

She just gets heavily depowered

[crystal forum]

also she literally flies down from the sky wolf

[arctic talon]

[crystal forum]

out of nowhere

[arctic talon]

Jay

She isn’t a daemon

She’s a physical being

[crystal forum]

HOW DID SHE GET ON CADIA

[arctic talon]

A ship

[dapper gyro]

The time she served with the repentia really woke up something in her.

[crystal forum]

which ship

[arctic talon]

She was onboard a SoB ship

[crystal forum]

who tf is transporting celestine like a personal chauffeur

[arctic talon]

No one

She manifested on it

Lol

[crystal forum]

the SOB's in the story see her before dying

[arctic talon]

She is again a physical being filled to the brim with warp juice

[crystal forum]

they call out to her

[arctic talon]

Jay

Read the gathering storm campaign books

Or actually lexicanum

Should have it

She doesn’t get banished to the warp

[crystal forum]

maybe not but still i dont buy her arrival

[storm jungle]

is my dad a Lost Legion

he never came back with the gene-milk

[crystal forum]

dilara who's right here

me or wolf

[dapper gyro]

She is kind of one of the weakest living saints in term of combat prowess.

[crisp heath]

U guys have any good audio book links?

[arctic talon]

As the ground battle between the Despoiler's invaders and Ursarkar E. Creed's defenders reached its climax, Cawl activated the pylons. The Necron technology operated precisely as had been expected, cutting off Cadia from the Warp, banishing the Daemons of Chaos, actually shrinking the Eye of Terror and giving Cadia's defenders a chance for yet another unlikely victory.

However, the loss of access to the Immaterium also affected Celestine, whose own extraordinary powers of faith were also fuelled by the psychic currents of the Warp. Meeting the Despoiler head-on, in her weakened form she was defeated by the Warmaster of Chaos. Even as she sat at his feet, she promised him that Mankind would one day be free of his vile masters.

"There is no freedom," was his only reply.

But Celestine was saved at the last moment when the Inquisitor Katarinya Greyfax of the Ordo Hereticus, recently freed from one of Trazyn's Tesseract Labyrinths, psychically assaulted Abaddon, forcing the Despoiler to back away. Before he could resume the advance, the pylons' strike upon the Immaterium intensified, banishing the Despoiler's Daemons and weakening his forces.

A massed attack on the Despoiler by Creed and his 8th Cadian Regiment of Cadian Shock Troops failed when Abaddon and his Chaos Terminators broke the charge and badly wounded Creed, severing one of his arms. But just as the Despoiler moved to put an end to the Lord Castellan by cracking his spine, Celestine, though much diminished, managed to stab him from behind with the Ardent Blade.

@crystal forum

I’m correct

Celestine doesn’t get banished to the fucking warp

[storm jungle]

I hate you both so ill say both of you are wrong and im right, I win

[arctic talon]

She’s not a purely immaterial being

[storm jungle]

[dapper gyro]

He comes back sometimes covered in smoke or 10 packs a day.

[arctic talon]

Die

[queen laurel]

the warden is here quick bash her with the metal pipes

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

Take a look at the pins in #40k-book-club

if you like one of those books it 99% has an audiobook alternative

[arctic talon]

Also

The badly wounded Lord Castellan Creed ordered an evacuation of the dying world. The Imperial survivors of Cadia -- led by Cawl, Saint Celestine, Inquisitor Katarinya Greyfax and Marshal Marius Amalrich of the Black Templars -- now calling themselves the Celestinian Crusade -- used every voidship at their disposal, including Cawl's massive Ark Mechanicus, the Iron Revenant, to ferry the three million survivors off Cadia.

[crisp heath]

Thanks

[arctic talon]

SHE DIDN’T GET BANISHED

I’m going to hit you with a squeaky hammer Jay

Smh

[crystal forum]

ok but
1: i dont remember greyfax being there in the book

2: it still doesn't explain where she went after

[storm jungle]

SHE DIDNT GO ANYWHERE

😭

[crystal forum]

the planet BLEW THE FUCK UP

[storm jungle]

they left in a webway gate

do you even Gathering Storm

[crystal forum]

fucking when???

[storm jungle]

Oh my god

[dapper gyro]

Like I said, she likes to get stabbed over and over.

[storm jungle]

READ THE LORE

[crystal forum]

i read the damn book

[storm jungle]

....

ITS NOT IN THE FUCKING BOOK

ITS IN THE RULEBOOKS

LMAO

gathering storm part 1 has like

SO MUCH stuff happen

[queen laurel]

what focusing on the only thing you like in the setting does to a zogger

[arctic talon]

It’s not in the novel

[dapper gyro]

Man, this is going nowhere, can't even meme anymore. Time out.

[crystal forum]

i'll be fully damn honest dilara that shit reads like the shitty first cadia book

[arctic talon]

It’s in the rulebooks

[storm jungle]

I mean no it doesnt

[arctic talon]

The rulebooks have a lot of lore in them

[storm jungle]

its just a lot of info

[arctic talon]

Also I plagiarized from the wiki that plagiarized from the book

I don’t have my pdf files of gathering storm on hand

[crystal forum]

i wish i didn't have to read rulebooks

[arctic talon]

I will kill all misinformation

They’re good lore

I genuinely don’t get why people don’t like rulebook lore

In like any system

[crystal forum]

because i dont want to read rulebooks

[arctic talon]

It’s fun, there’s a ton of it even if it’s a bit dry

[crystal forum]

they're boring as fuck

[dapper gyro]

It is indeed funny.

[arctic talon]

[queen laurel]

Why am I not surprised you think that

[shadow plover]

half of the rule book reads like normal lore

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[crystal forum]

they literally are boring

[arctic talon]

Lol

[dapper gyro]

Most of the weapons lored are from rulebooks.

[storm jungle]

Jay YOU are boring

get his ass

[crystal forum]

i like being boring

[shadow plover]

https://tenor.com/view/tank-to-tank-communication-tank-gif-11679869274951291671

[dapper gyro]

Then weapon performance in the novels is always different.

[storm jungle]

but yeah the rulebook literally reads like a codex

(which it basically fucking is, just bigger)

[crystal forum]

it's just straight exposition with some short stories

[storm jungle]

T-

THATS HOW THEY ALWAYS DELIVER LORE

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

WHATS WRONG WITH YOU

😭

[arctic talon]

There’s also just info dumps

[crystal forum]

i said i prefer full books

[arctic talon]

I love info dumps

Then again I enjoy reading textbooks

So maybe I’m not the best source

[dapper gyro]

Someone makes Dilara cry before Eternal...

[crystal forum]

somehow the vraks rule books were more fun to read than the book itself

[arctic talon]

Yesp

Because rulebook lore good

[storm jungle]

I mean no

the vraks rulebook is the exact same

its an info dump rulebook

[queen laurel]

as someone that just read the fourth edition orruk warclans battletome and 4th edition Gloomspite gitz

[storm jungle]

you are just biased because its guard

[crystal forum]

yes but it info dumps autistically about logistics

[queen laurel]

amen brother

[crystal forum]

and i like that

[crystal forum]

partially true

[storm jungle]

auaghh DIE

[queen laurel]

you can say many things about him but he ain't a liar

He's just

uhh

magical

[crystal forum]

i dont troll i just have dog shit opinions which i truly believe in

[storm jungle]

kill him guys

take his skull for my moderator throne

[dapper gyro]

Bulgur, what is your description of people nowadays?

[queen laurel]

oh i haven't updated it because nothing interesting has happened so far

[vagrant fox]

add boring to everyone

[queen laurel]

nah you guys are amusing I won't

[crystal forum]

wolf killed chat again

[vagrant fox]

real question is the sanguinor, mephiston, and dante going to do a fusion dance to revive sanguinius

[arctic talon]

I hope not

[crystal forum]

blood angels if they weren't carried by their ridiculously overpowered characters

[arctic talon]

I want him to stay dead

[queen laurel]

I want him to stay dead

He got like obliterated

[storm jungle]

after the more popular primarchs come back then yeah

[vagrant fox]

Yea but the fandom is obsessed with him and he'll sell like hot crack

[crystal forum]

sang coming back would be so insulting

[storm jungle]

money is money

[crystal forum]

he's like the one primarch who's defining trait is dying during siege of terra

[storm jungle]

people would buy him like crazy

[vagrant fox]

I've resigned to the inevitability of it

[storm jungle]

Nvm someone said it already lmaooo

[storm jungle]

Primarchs are essentially MCU slop

they sell like hotcakes, its 100% gonna happen

we are just a lot of years off

[queen laurel]

All right the perimeter is clear we can keep talking

[storm jungle]

Fulgrim is back atm so another Loyalist Primarch will be coming back soon for that first, so its prob Russ

[crystal forum]

i'd like if their return actually progressed the plot but GW be doing GW

[dapper gyro]

Heretic

[vagrant fox]

no more invincible 😩

[arctic talon]

I mean the plot goes forward slowly

40K is a sandbox

Ultimately

Not some big living setting that changes a lot constantly

[crystal forum]

lion came back to counter angron who was moving the plot too quickly

the true secret chaos god is the left 4 dead director

[queen laurel]

Out of the three warhammer settings which is the least sandbox fantasy age of sigmar or 40k

[storm jungle]

Id say Fantasy

[crystal forum]

age of sigmar imo

[storm jungle]

jay your knowledge of AOS is like

basically 1%

[crystal forum]

wait is fantasy the same as old world

[storm jungle]

yes

[queen laurel]

Yes what did you think

[storm jungle]

its the "past"

[dapper gyro]

Clonegrim vs Fulgrim, pop corn for everyone in the imperium.

[crystal forum]

so old world is the reboot

[queen laurel]

Yes

[storm jungle]

I mean yes but its still in the past

[queen laurel]

Yeah it's just like warhammer fantasy but on the past

[storm jungle]

AOS is the future "current time" of fantasy

^

[crystal forum]

but it takes place at a different time to fantasy

[storm jungle]

Yes

[crystal forum]

the original

[storm jungle]

again "past"

[dusk patrol]

Fucking Obiwan Sherlock Clossaeu is coming back before Clonegrim

[crystal forum]

so old world is not the same as fantasy

[storm jungle]

It is

jay im gonna shoot you

AAAA-

[queen laurel]

It is it's just in the past

[dusk patrol]

Same universe

[crystal forum]

im genuinely confused

[queen laurel]

Jay i know you're a bit slow when it isn't the imperial guard but like

[storm jungle]

OH MY GOD

okay so

[queen laurel]

Is not hard to get

[dusk patrol]

Idk why it’s confusing

[crystal forum]

so the original 80's fantasy is no longer continued

[storm jungle]

Fantasy had a "current time" before it got nuked, and the timeline progressed into AOS

GW has brougth back Fantasy but its just in the fucking past, its still exploded

its a prequel setting

[queen laurel]

Yes but they made it into two settings now going back in the past with old world and age of sigmar in the future

[languid meadow]

magnooooos

[storm jungle]

they even retconned some stuff to make it fit better into future AOS changes ala rebranding Malekith etc

[queen laurel]

That's literally it

[crystal forum]

but does the old original fantasy still get new stuff or is it seperated into old world and aos

[storm jungle]

it does

because money

they re-sell the old shitty models and sometimes make new stuff

[queen laurel]

Yeah they will basically be using assets from fantasy into old world

[storm jungle]

^

[crystal forum]

so that's old world which is past (reboot), fantasy which is present (original) and aos which is future (reboot)

[storm jungle]

I mean no

AOS is just a continuation

Old World is the only reboot

its a prequel setting

this is really not that confusing

[crystal forum]

i thought aos was very different to original fantasy

[dapper gyro]

End time baby

[storm jungle]

it is but its the same timeline

[arctic talon]

It is

[queen laurel]

My god he is on stage 5 imperial guard lore

[storm jungle]

Sigmar literally remembers Fantasy

[dusk patrol]

Jay you don’t even know 40k lore

[queen laurel]

Yeah age of sigmar is just the future

[storm jungle]

^

[queen laurel]

It does reference the past old world

Of fantasy

But it's mostly it's own thing now in the future

[crystal forum]

so why am i wrong in saying original fantasy is seperate since it predates the end times which remade everything

[storm jungle]

because its not seperate

they are all in the same timeline

[crystal forum]

it's the same timeline i know

[storm jungle]

if you mean different settings then yes they are

but they are essentially on the same line

[crystal forum]

yes that's what i mean

[storm jungle]

okay good

[dapper gyro]

AOS is kind of soft reboot, but happened after fantasy.

[storm jungle]

i was gonna Warhammer Fantasy Battles: End Times™️ myself 💀

[dusk patrol]

Old World reboot is gonna take place hundreds of years before most of fantasy

Fantasy took place mostly at the very end before the end times, short timeframe

Age of Sigmar is all after that, in sorta a re-made universe

[storm jungle]

its more like a sledgehammer but yeah

[crystal forum]

so that's 3 different settings tabletop wise

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[queen laurel]

Yes but one of them is no longer a thing

[crystal forum]

alright that's what i wanted to know

[storm jungle]

okay good

[dusk patrol]

Sorta, Fantasy and the reboot are very similar

[dapper gyro]

I want to keep it simple for some of our member.

[dusk patrol]

But time frames are different

[storm jungle]

yeah and Old World also has some stuff from AOS carry over

mostly name changes and shit

nothing too huge

[crystal forum]

it's confusing to somebody who never got into any of these

[storm jungle]

I mean no it isnt

[storm jungle]

this is like very basic

its just the star wars prequels, clone wars, original trilogy logic

when you put em in order its pretty simple

[queen laurel]

Yeah like we literally shot the answers to you you're just wearing a bulletproof vest

[storm jungle]

gotta aim for the face...

[arctic talon]

Maliketh

[storm jungle]

Malerion

[arctic talon]

Malarion

[storm jungle]

😭

[arctic talon]

Is it malerion

[storm jungle]

yeah it is

[queen laurel]

Speaking of is he doing anything in age of sigma instead of bum f*** all

[storm jungle]

people got mad at that lmao

[dusk patrol]

If you make something idiot proof they’ll invent a better idiot

[queen laurel]

Like i haven't even seen his own faction

[arctic talon]

Meh

[storm jungle]

also bretonnia now having female knights

[crystal forum]

so did aos happen before old world in real life timeline

[arctic talon]

Yes

[storm jungle]

yes

[arctic talon]

Well

[queen laurel]

Yes

[dapper gyro]

It is literally like how HH and 40K are different settings of the same timeline.

[arctic talon]

Actually yeah

[queen laurel]

It's the result of the setting getting destroyed

[dapper gyro]

You don't even need to go to Star Wars.

[storm jungle]

Fantasy got nuked since it was a money pit and AOS came later, started awfully then starting making tons of money

so at the end of the day it was the better decision

[crystal forum]

so fantasy was failing, they rebooted to aos and then they did old world as a soft reboot of the original dying fantasy

[storm jungle]

Yeah pretty much

[dusk patrol]

They were gonna reboot 40k too it got so bad

[storm jungle]

Total War made them realise Fantasy still makes money

[queen laurel]

Yeah now it has definitely taken the place of 40k of a niche thing people like

Because 40k now jump to mainstream levels

[dusk patrol]

Then primaris and Guilliman saved it all, so they just rolled with a advancing the story plotline

[storm jungle]

Yeah this too, people dont know but 40k almost died like 3-4 times in the early to mid-2000's lol

[crystal forum]

i dont get why they decided to create events before fantasy if they wanted to have fantasy 2.0 after aos happened

[storm jungle]

mostly due to like awful product and tabletop management

it was super bad

[storm jungle]

jay

because money

[dusk patrol]

Well it was 2014-15 but yeah

[crystal forum]

alright

[queen laurel]

J the imperial guard won't get anything good if it doesn't make the money

[dusk patrol]

People do not appreciate the amount of model updates and shit we’re getting these days

It’s wild

[storm jungle]

TLDR: Total War/Vermintide (but mostly Total War) made them realise Fantasy still has money potential, its a mostly "safe" business venture because they largely sell old shitty minis people buy in droves

theres some new minis but like... yeah lol

playdough ahhh

[queen laurel]

The black orcs look like crinkly raisins my god

[storm jungle]

ignore the faces

for your sake

[dusk patrol]

Hey you can’t call them that

[crystal forum]

that was confusing to me i thought og fantasy was dead

[storm jungle]

It was

[dusk patrol]

It was

[storm jungle]

but now it isnt

[crystal forum]

but i kept seeing new models

ah

[storm jungle]

well "new"

but yes lol

[crystal forum]

is that post 2020

[dusk patrol]

They brought it back but hundreds of years prior to the original one

[crystal forum]

when the community became larger

[storm jungle]

I THINK so?

[queen laurel]

Yeah so basically fantasy died and made the aos timeline but gw decided money and so revive the fantasy timeline but decided to kick it back a few years

[storm jungle]

like the Old World had an abysmal start

they were just doing map teasers

and like... 1-3 model reveals a year???

now its better'ish

people soyjack at any release they make so it works

[queen laurel]

Oh yeah what about the books on the setting haven't heard anything on that department

Old worlds by the way

[storm jungle]

We got some

the bretonnia book was a thing and uhhhh

[dapper gyro]

Failing upwards from there...

[storm jungle]

i forgor...

[storm jungle]

Well as long as it makes money its fine

GW realised old fantasy fans are like extremely desperate

i dotn blame them id sell those guys old minis too

respect the game

[arctic talon]

I’ll soyjack at any new old world minis

Because they look good

Well

Normally

[crystal forum]

i dont get how if the community is the same for fantasy they'd have not much buying back then but now have enough

[queen laurel]

I like the shaman with the troll hat

[dusk patrol]

Because new people learned about it

And the fanbase has grown

[storm jungle]

Customers are stupid.

its pretty simple

[crystal forum]

so it is because the fanbase grew

[storm jungle]

Yes

[queen laurel]

Yeah total war literally catapulted from the grave

[dapper gyro]

So are you and me.

[dusk patrol]

It’s hard to stress how much GW has blown up since the End Times

[queen laurel]

Back to being dissected in the office

[languid meadow]

the warhammer in general is bigger + total war and vermintide has increased fantasy's popularity

[storm jungle]

Oh right yeah i do "buy" GW stuff hehe

anyway

[languid meadow]

every day is a day to steal

[crystal forum]

now we just need a valhallan centered video game

[storm jungle]

maybe when valhalla freezes over

oh wait

[queen laurel]

Granted in turn the end times is now happening for warhammer

[dusk patrol]

Like this is GW stock.

2015 was when the end times happened and primaris and all that.

[crystal forum]

for 40k?

[queen laurel]

After which we will get a setting called warhammer 50k age of the emperor

[dusk patrol]

They’ve skyrocketed

[crystal forum]

i'd coom

[storm jungle]

Cant wait

[dapper gyro]

Fucking covid

[storm jungle]

hopefully it doesnt have women

[queen laurel]

All right i might have to perform a vasectomy

With an axe

[storm jungle]

💀

[crystal forum]

idk what that is but it sound hot

[storm jungle]

AAA-

[dusk patrol]

Covid helped a lot but they were already rising too

[outer wave]

Ngl that sounds dogshit

[storm jungle]

covid did that like uhh

[outer wave]

How much more of the Emperor could you want out of the setting?

[storm jungle]

a 50-60% bump but yeah they were rising still

[storm jungle]

More emperors

[crystal forum]

i bet the executives think they did all that

[storm jungle]

we need like 40,000

[vagrant fox]

2 emperors

[storm jungle]

I mean

they always do

they are fucking stupid

[dusk patrol]

I mean they made a lot of great choices lol

It didn’t rise for no reason, they changed a lot and have improved a lot of stuff

[storm jungle]

(most choices execs make usually come from other people so dont worry jay)

but yeah

[dusk patrol]

You do not appreciate how much better the company is now than early 2000s and 2010s

[outer wave]

Ouuugh I cannot wait for Chaos Emperor vs Golden Emperor vs Xenos Emperor

[crystal forum]

the shareholders know best

[storm jungle]

read that as "Chinese Emperor" 💀

[opaque coyote]

Tbh this but

Kind of unironically. Kind of.

Like split into different aspects and shards.

...

Also it would be a bunch of big buff me-

[outer wave]

PUT THE CHINESE EMPEROR IN

[dusk patrol]

I don’t need the stock to tell me 40k is doing good

[storm jungle]

having been in a lot of boardroom meetings myself as a fly on the wall its usually boiling down to uhhh

[dusk patrol]

But it is a easy indicator

[storm jungle]

"why not chart go up"

"oh chart go up, me get money"

you'll rarely get like a room full of good execs

theres usually only like 1-3

[opaque coyote]

"Xiao Ling takes power"

"2 billion people perish"

[storm jungle]

out of a group of a dozen lol

[opaque coyote]

You've got Chinese history now

[storm jungle]

thankfully they mostly listen to the smart one

its like watching a pack of walruses

[outer wave]

7 billion psykers result to psychic cannibalism

[storm jungle]

Nova Terra Inpregnantum anyone?

[crystal forum]

business school teaching execs the rule of 80-20 then doing it themselves

[storm jungle]

Real.

[opaque coyote]

"WHY ISN'T CHART GO UP??? WE DO BAD???"

"...how about we try actually making a good video game."

"NO IT'S THE CONSUMER'S FAULT. THEY SHOULD ACCEPT OUR HALF FINISHED SLOP!"

[storm jungle]

Lol in gaming its a lot worse but yeah

[queen laurel]

Warhammer executive moment

[storm jungle]

"we need more graphics, more crunch, more MORE"

"Sir we cant reach the deadline"

"just release it fuck it"

every game these days

also throw in uhhh

[outer wave]

"I need more pixels on this overly pixelated man STAT!"

[storm jungle]

stealing some breastmilk

[crystal forum]

remove the coder's vacations

[storm jungle]

also harrassing female employees

[crystal forum]

tell them they'll get bonuses as a joke

[storm jungle]

They would do that lol

[opaque coyote]

STALKER 2 is unfortunately a recent victim of this.

But I think some slack is given because

[storm jungle]

"cosby room" anyone? 💀

[outer wave]

I hope the gaming industry crashes

[opaque coyote]

They literally developed it

While their developers were fighting in a war

In fucking UKRAINE

[queen laurel]

Evil blizzard be like firestorm

Treats employees very well and continuous to make very good games

[crystal forum]

the original stalkers had horrible dev conditions too idk why people expected different

[opaque coyote]

So yeah there's a lot less vitriol than usual lmao

[languid meadow]

the credits for S2 are just depressing holy shit

[crystal forum]

the lead dev was an asshole

[storm jungle]

least problematic slav

[dusk patrol]

Eastern Europe

Good Dev Experience

Pick one

[opaque coyote]

True.

Probably due to the fact that it's been like 13 years since the last game

They kinda forgot

[storm jungle]

i stick to western games thank you very much

[dusk patrol]

I do love me Metro

[crystal forum]

metro devs saying if we dont buy on epic games they might stop making games

fuck you

[dusk patrol]

Although holy shit the English VA is so bad I have to switch to Russian

[opaque coyote]

Lmao

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/nicki-minaj-call-of-duty-slap-by-iaknaes-gif-15893057252251262901

[crystal forum]

that shit was so scummy i had exodus bookmarked for release

i waited the damn year

[storm jungle]

Epic Games is like

[crystal forum]

and it was worth it

[storm jungle]

"just bow down and submit to Steam, it isnt that hard"

"NEVER"

[opaque coyote]

I only have an account for free games

I'm gonna be honest

[storm jungle]

people just not wanting to deal with Steam is always funny to me

like, Dice at least finally gave up lol

[crystal forum]

epic games clearly wants to undercut steam and then gain a monopoly. there's no way their business model is sustainable

[storm jungle]

that aws so funny

[storm jungle]

its not

[arctic talon]

^

[storm jungle]

Steam started this shit

[arctic talon]

Steam is a fucking monopoly

lol

[dusk patrol]

They’re competing, it’s not complex

[storm jungle]

they will never be Steam

[dusk patrol]

lol

[arctic talon]

EGS and GoG are just

the only real competitors

[storm jungle]

Yeah we know dingus

we are just saying its pointless lol

[arctic talon]

and they're nothing

in comparison

[outer wave]

GoG is pretty good for older games

[storm jungle]

but yeah that ^

[arctic talon]

I will however take the free stuff from Epic

lol

[dusk patrol]

Steam doesn’t need you to defend them

[storm jungle]

God-Emperor Gaben is inevitable

[opaque coyote]

Honestly competition is good. Steam has a monopoly and that's kinda shitty.

The problem is that Epic Games doesn't really offer anything Steam doesn't. Account security is shit. The game selection is somehow worse than when Steam Greenlight was a thing. Etc.

[storm jungle]

nobody is defending steam

lol

[outer wave]

I never bothered with the free giveaways for Epic

[arctic talon]

Its making my money worth

[crystal forum]

epic games will stop the free games and low publishing fees the moment they become large enough in the industry

[arctic talon]

smh

[storm jungle]

its just tiring honestly

but like, it always goes nowhere and they bend the knee eventually so like lol

its just funny

[crystal forum]

also steam sucks they didn't ban the fuckface who scammed my csgo knife

[arctic talon]

all the other storefronts are just worse

[opaque coyote]

Rage against the dying of the light?

Except the light is blue

[storm jungle]

Csgo

[arctic talon]

I mean yeah its legal

[storm jungle]

knife

[arctic talon]

lol

[storm jungle]

you deserved it

[crystal forum]

their policy is literally to not ban scammers

[arctic talon]

yes

that is their trade policy

[outer wave]

Im so happy I never got into the CS:GO rabbithole

[storm jungle]

Also it depends

they got some really good fucking support

[arctic talon]

all trades occur without any real valve oversight

if you get scammed out of a deal

[storm jungle]

My friend had his account stolen and like

[crystal forum]

and that's terrible wolf

[arctic talon]

then thats not valves problem

[storm jungle]

they fixed it in a day

[arctic talon]

if your account is stolen

[storm jungle]

somehow

[arctic talon]

Steam will

literally kill the person

[storm jungle]

^

[arctic talon]

who steals your account

[storm jungle]

they are like a hit-squad

no fucking mercy

[arctic talon]

actual fucking Glowies

[storm jungle]

lmao

[vagrant fox]

I got my account back in two days when it got looted

[crystal forum]

they dont do anything about market because it makes them so much money

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/glowie-penguin-green-glowing-gif-21079513

[arctic talon]

yes

[storm jungle]

pretty much

[arctic talon]

same with gambling

Now pay for case keys

nerd

[crystal forum]

i dont care about the logic it's unethical fuck you

[storm jungle]

i dont hear anyone complaining about CSGO/TF2's microtransactions

[arctic talon]

well I agree

[storm jungle]

thanks gamers

[arctic talon]

but steam doesn't give a shit

[opaque coyote]

But hey I got Lisa the Painful and Joyful for free on Epic

So

[storm jungle]

Who

[opaque coyote]

It's existence is validated

[arctic talon]

CSGO and TF2 fans when it comes to sucking off valve's monitization

actually

I can't post that gif

[vagrant fox]

When was the Lisas free?

[arctic talon]

nvm

[opaque coyote]

Indie game.

[opaque coyote]

Like a year ago I think

[storm jungle]

I quit TF2 the moment i saw they were adding CSGO weapon skins. Best decision i ever made

[arctic talon]

I cannot belive they added CSGO cases

with even worse RNG

[opaque coyote]

I got it though

[storm jungle]

same

and it succeeded

immensely