40k-lore-chat

[vale shuttle]

blah blah blah woke blah blah blah politics blah blah blah get your flag outta my face blah blah blah stop making it your personality

[crisp heath]

amazing how a post with 342 comments can mention slaanesh 508 times

[crimson kayak]

proceeds to post the flag for reference and not make any of the flag colors at all

[vale shuttle]

youknow, there's someone in the australian darktide discord with the about me "No one cares about your politics, gender or opinion. If I have offended you know that I don't mean it and am not sorry."

[green loom]

I think a less vibrant pink would've been nice yeah but I don't paint

[vale shuttle]

i think about that guy really often, because he used to have "People with their pronouns should be recycled into glue and dogfood."

[crisp heath]

the trans flag doesn't work on a lot of 40k models imo but trans Night Haunt looks amazing

[green loom]

This is based though

[vale shuttle]

if i did space marines

[crimson kayak]

extremely based

[vale shuttle]

i'd do this

[near wasp]

Purple is just a dope color

[crisp heath]

https://preview.redd.it/b6hwderdccu91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=159ec65f7c7df81895b68421f97c9c829c04d10c

[pine wedge]

I had a homebrew 30k legion in an alternate reality great crusade RP I did

a long long time ago

deep purple armor with black capes with cyan inner trim

looked fucking MINT

[crisp heath]

Remember, Hive Fleet Leviathan said ace pride

[near wasp]

Could never do 40k rp xD itd melt my brain

[green loom]

I remember this thing some friends of mine were in called "Siblinghood of the Found"

And my god

NEVER let the average 40k fan make a legion

[pine wedge]

oh wait not cyan on the cape, cyan on the legion emblems

so sexy

[crisp heath]

Siblinghood of the Found already sounds like a gay space marine chapter

[vale shuttle]

i'm doing a crusade campaign and i feel it's the perfect way to add a sprinkle of RP / storytelling without haviung to sit down and write paragraphs of "Xyz hated the foul xeno and was racist" lmao

[green loom]

It had fem Primarchs, pretty much all played by guys

[vale shuttle]

oh noooo

thaaaat can't turn out good

[pine wedge]

what?

the 30k RP I was in had female primarchs too

[crisp heath]

Honestly no I think the same thing would happen if I was there

[pine wedge]

nothing weird happened

[crisp heath]

Oh i'd make it really weird

[green loom]

I think there were some good ones but like a good half were Uber powerful psyker geniuses who were condescending and badly written

[vale shuttle]

no i mean a bunch of teenage boys RPing fem primarchs immediately sets off alarms in my head

[crisp heath]

they'll grow up to be beautiful women

[crimson kayak]

yeah i only ever found one good 40k rp server that didn't necessarily need me to write a short story per post

[vale shuttle]

obvs it could be done well, but it's just, it feels like a red flag

[vale shuttle]

LMAO

||40k turned me gay and trans, in this essay i will-||

[pine wedge]

the coolest one was a female Primarch inspired by Nike, goddess of victory, that landed on a mythological Greece-inspired homeworld

a background full of monster slaying and Hercules energy

it was dope

[near wasp]

I wouldnt even know where to start in a 40k rp. I have a hard enough time with my current rps

[crystal forum]

because greek stuff isn't overdone in 40k

[pine wedge]

it's not

no such thing as overdoing "greek stuff"

[crimson kayak]

the best ones at the ones that don't sprawl the entire galaxy and just focus on a specific place/sector

[vale shuttle]

||i feel attacked, my homebrew sororitas are ancient greek themed||

[copper patrol]

this is pretty much why I get uncomfortable when I see someone ( that I know generally) make a female dnd character as a dude, the one time I was in a campagin with someone doing that is was cringe as fuck

[pine wedge]

anyway this was 7 years ago, I readily admit some of it was cringe (my primarch was the worst, I deliberately made an ultra-edgy dude that was like, the ambition of the Emperor personified into one dude but without any of the emotional checks and balances of the Big Daddy himself, so he was primed to become the Horus of the setting)

it's great fun to do, though

[vale shuttle]

if i were making a 40k rp and not campaign, i'd probably set it on like - a blackstone fortress that would allow for a large group of xeno, human, and chaos characters to interact with

[green loom]

I can barely RP a guy, let alone a woman

[pine wedge]

make up a primarch and a legion and campaigns they fought and who the big heroes of the legion are and what all their weird little rituals and traditions are

[vale shuttle]

that way you could have a contained campaign, with everyone making the character they want

[crisp heath]

3 sessions in you realize you are hurtling towards Cadia

[near wasp]

Cant wait for it to get destoried by abby cause he wants it

[copper patrol]

I just remember my mister basically pirate manly man paladin sitting there just like

waiting for random bullshit to stop

[crystal forum]

i play healer in every game because i like feeling important

[pine wedge]

rogue trader RPs are also excellent for this

[copper patrol]

though me and another character did almost burn down a forest that was apperantly important to the story

[pine wedge]

that retinue could have anything in it

[copper patrol]

[crisp heath]

Ok so I just realized what the joke about blackstone fortresses we'll be telling for the next 20 years is, sorry I missed the memo on that one

[near wasp]

Just not an orc pls

[vale shuttle]

you could set it in a rogue trader, a bunch of people trapped on a uuh space hulk

[crisp heath]

Literally orks are everyone's favorite thing in a rogue trader retinue

[vale shuttle]

uuuhhh maybe a tau expeditionary force or something

idk

but i dont have enough time to setup a 40k rp so lmao

[near wasp]

Stranded necron lord xD

[copper patrol]

I feel like either all orks or no orks would be best for a 40k TTRPG crew

[vale shuttle]

maybe having an exiled ork who is still very orky but not orky enough for ork society so he's on a quest to prove he can kill a lot of things and bring back trophies

so he's not super duper mega aggressive and fighty, but is still fighty

[crimson kayak]

a stormboy could work

[copper patrol]

I mean you could def do one well

but I do not trust most people to do one well

[near wasp]

Now you guys are making me wanna do this

[copper patrol]

same goes for a lot of things in TTRPGS

[crystal forum]

why not just be an ogryn with anger issues

[copper patrol]

that'd be worse

for like most people rping

it'd just be "me dumb me smash"

[vale shuttle]

if you set it up i'll play it

[crystal forum]

yeah so just like an ork

[near wasp]

Last rp i ran died super quick

[vale shuttle]

orks can be clever, cunning, and otherwise think out of the box. ogryns are kinda locked to being dumb

[copper patrol]

and even thought they don't need to be that dumb

I do not trust most people to pull it off well

[crystal forum]

nah some ogryns have smart implants that make them less dumb

[vale shuttle]

🤷 it's up to you man lmao, i dont got enough time to set one up, but could definitely squeeze in the time to play it

[crisp heath]

Ok hear me out here: 2 rival necrons who adopt a human child due to plot fuckery and also because that's just something named necrons would do. That's your party. The necrons do not like each other.

[crystal forum]

it's more lore accurate than an ork being friends with humans

[copper patrol]

not really

orks get hired out all the time

[green loom]

Yeah blood axe mercenaries exist

[crimson kayak]

yeah ork mercs are a thing

[near wasp]

Ill consider it.

[copper patrol]

"you gitz are pretty foighty"

bam

done

[crisp heath]

orks will work for anyone as long as you give them an endless supply of violence and teeth

[crystal forum]

arent they usually hired as war bands though? it's not singular orks making the choice

[crimson kayak]

maybe a survivor of a small warband following a rogue trader after being hired?

[crystal forum]

the typical ork boyz are dumb AF

[crimson kayak]

depends

[vale shuttle]

that's why you have a metanarrative of your character slowly growing up to be a nob

so he can finally return to his homeworld of Krumpsmash IV

[green loom]

You can make a deal with the warboss specifically for some smarter commandos mayhaps

[crystal forum]

and the higher echelons of ork society wouldn't want to waste time being hired as mercs when they could be leading entire war bands

[copper patrol]

you could do one well very easily

[crimson kayak]

you also have Stormboy's who are literally disciplined orks

[copper patrol]

that literally happens all the time

[near wasp]

Orc who gets hired to fight the genestealers infecting the lower decks of a ship and just hangs out with the umies because "they take me to all yhe good foights"

[green loom]

That Ork wouldn't stay alone for long is the thing

[copper patrol]

Free bootaz are merc orks

[green loom]

And they also wouldn't stay smart

[vale shuttle]

anyway, any force that has a wayward ork is probably a wacky band of misfits and outcasts

[copper patrol]

so

average TTRPG crew

[vale shuttle]

perfect for a weird RP set in a space hulk or blackstone fortress or w/ever

yep!!!

[green loom]

Like you can fit it in easily, the RP doesn't need to be picture perfect lore

[crystal forum]

yeah that's what i'm saying. you can't be a lone ork smarty pants because you'll revert back to being a caveman

[crisp heath]

So all the FF ttrpgs assume human PCs. My suggestion as a GM: make one of them a genestealer, don't tell them they're a genestealer, just ask if someone wants some free psyker powers, give them "visions" that are actually from the broodmind and make them figure it out while you feed them disinfo that will eventually get the entire party killed.

[crimson kayak]

btw remember guys's that we already have official rules for playing both as orks and kroots thanks to Into The Storm

so it's feasible

if i rememember correctly you can also get Snotlings after a while as an Ork due to the spores

[copper patrol]

I think they need to be foightin to release spores

but I could be wrong

[crimson kayak]

nope

[crystal forum]

hey that's another thing i didn't mention

[crimson kayak]

they release them costantly

it's just that a single ork doesn't produce that many to create an entire population in a week basically

[crystal forum]

why the hell would you hire an ork to be close to you when he'll multiply 10 times in a week

[copper patrol]

now the ork player has goons for "Look out sir" rolls

[crystal forum]

now you have an ork infestation wherever you go

[crisp heath]

You get 10x as many orks, just pay the biggest one. Infinitely expanding army.

[crimson kayak]

also the biggest one is most probably the PC as he's the first anyway

[copper patrol]

you could very easily to a lot of fun stuff with a good player on the ork

[crisp heath]

A rogue trader making a killing in the Ork racket

[crimson kayak]

remember btw that we see ork infestations after entire waagh's go into a planet

or else that would mean ork infestations would be literally anywhere an ork touches

[copper patrol]

like since it's just 1 ork, could do some funny random "look out sirs" out of the blue

or just have like random snotling encounters in the ship

etc

[crystal forum]

pretty much every imperial you interact with will instantly want to kill you

[copper patrol]

and?

[crimson kayak]

nope because Rogue Trader

[copper patrol]

^

[crimson kayak]

they would look at you really bad yes

[crystal forum]

you wouldn't have that issue as an ogryn!

[crisp heath]

We are literally getting a game where you can canonically have an Eldar GF, rogue traders don't give a fuck

[copper patrol]

Rogue traders have a card that says "I can do what ever the fuck I want"with exceptions

[near wasp]

Halo stars campain

[crystal forum]

until an inquisitor of the ordo xenos finds out

[crisp heath]

Even if the inquistion finds out?

[crystal forum]

"he did what with an ork??"

[copper patrol]

"he is useful to me"

"ok you are free to go"

[crisp heath]

inquisition doesn't enforce Rogue Traders unless they're doing something really fucked up, more than just boinking aliens/paying orks

Like, making daemonhosts fucked up

[crystal forum]

im talking about the ordo xenos

[copper patrol]

pretty much the only thing you aren't allowed to do is chaos stuff

[crystal forum]

they're the ones who specifically give many shits about xenos

[copper patrol]

you are a rogue trader with a liscense signed by the emperor saying you can do what you want

they can fuck off

[crisp heath]

Yeah, and Rogue Traders have a document signed by the Emperor himself saying they're cool to hang out with Xenos

[crimson kayak]

Rogue traders are on the same scale as Chapter Master, Inquisitors and planetary governors regarding laws

[copper patrol]

you probably have bigger guns then the nit picky inquisitor

[crimson kayak]

aka they couldn't give a single fuck

[crisp heath]

Rogue Traders have it even better than planetary governers by a long shot

[crystal forum]

why are none of you saying how it could be a cool campaign to have to survive an ordo xenos inquisitor trying to kill your xeno retinue 😤

[crimson kayak]

through now it depends since there's also Letter Of Marque rogue traders who are more limited

[copper patrol]

becuase that would just be annoying after a while

[crystal forum]

hey you want rogue trader life then there it is! constantly being pursued and backstabbed by everybody

[copper patrol]

and becuase you are so vehement on not having an ork

[crisp heath]

Rogue Traders are at like, Inquisitor Lord levels of personal power. No one over them, can do literally whatever they want. The only real difference is that radical Inquisitor Lords get to mess around with chaos while the Rogue Traders get to mess around with Xenos

[near wasp]

Random group of humans and xenos trying to break out of trayzens museum after a massive statis failure

[crisp heath]

counterpoint: you're a crack team of humans and xenos hired by Trazyn to break into the inner palace and retrieve the Emperor's toenail clippings for him

[crimson kayak]

yep, in the alpha of the game at the very start you go to a place where literally you are told that the only "threats" could be other rogue traders going after the competition

[vale shuttle]

yeeaaaah, honestly we can just argue "because it would be fun" and because this theoretical RP is entirely self-contained and will never influence anyone beyond the group doing it idk why the argument nis so vehement

[crystal forum]

he pays you in random junk he has laying around (extremely valuable STC's)

[vale shuttle]

this is also an excellent premise

[crisp heath]

He puts you in his museum as the perpetrators of the greatest heist ever planned

[vale shuttle]

YES, PERFECT ENDING

[near wasp]

So theoretically, what system or way would i go about making something like this

[crystal forum]

"ever planned" as in they never even start the heist and he immediately cages them after they get prepared lol

[crimson kayak]

not until one of your players starts releasing nids into the museum again just before he makes you a showcase

[crystal forum]

imagine an ocean's eleven style 40k heist

[vale shuttle]

there's a number of 40k RPG systems. additionally, you could use Genesys which is setting-agnostic

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Roleplay_Games_(List)

Dark Heresy for chaos, Rogue Trader for rogue traders, Deathwatch for Space Marines, Black Crusade for...i forget

and idk what only war and wrath and glory are for

[crisp heath]

That's just act 2, where you play the original idea

[copper patrol]

only war is guardsman

and idk what wrath and glory is

I think it's more generic 40k

[crimson kayak]

Wrath and glory is generic

Dark heresy is inquisition

[crisp heath]

Only War is Guard, Black Crusade is Chaos

[crimson kayak]

Also there's the spiritual successor of Dark Heresy coming out

[thick cedar]

So what power level would you set our player characters

[pine wedge]

Zeta // Epsilon
Very high level of mental psychic activity. Manifesting early, these levels of talent (and those above) require the immediate attention of Imperial authorities and represent a true security threat.

This would be my pick

Basically the second tier of psykers

[crimson kayak]

Yep, also he's surely Sanctioned as a Primaris as he can cast shit alone without support from a Psyker battle team

[pine wedge]

Stronger than your rank and file sanctioned psyker, but not ultra rare

The next step up is Delta/Gamma, one in a billion births, on the level of Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn

[crimson kayak]

So that means he also completed Psyker Training wich is also kinda rare

[crystal forum]

i'd like a super powerful psyker that can't control his powers

[crimson kayak]

So any untrained Psyker?

[crisp heath]

You'd doom us all. Proceed.

[near wasp]

So you mean an unstable nuke

[copper patrol]

[pine wedge]

Depends on the backstory. Seer is crazy so idk what to believe about him, but Savant was trained by Enforcers and Loner has been on the run from the Imperium his whole life, working for hive gangs at some point

I think Loner is self-taught

[vale shuttle]

"unstable nuke" Psyker subclass when

[copper patrol]

just use them like a eversor assassin

freeze them then drop them some where

[near wasp]

If they start a daemon incursion no loss xD

[crimson kayak]

Yep, even If not officialy, they are still a league above Wyrdwanes, who even with Imperial Training usually Never reach Primaris status

[thick cedar]

oof

[vale shuttle]

remember that A+ is "godly" and A is "not quite godly"

[vale shuttle]

since psychic power scales exponentially

[thick cedar]

so in the grand scheme its really good

[vale shuttle]

A+ and A Psykers are monsters

[crisp heath]

Alpha Plus is basically the unmatched power of the sun

[vale shuttle]

they're people like the Emperor. they can influence entire systems.

[crisp heath]

Oh hey new daemon world just dropped: the sun is a psyker

[vale shuttle]

basically they're "arbitrarily powerful"

[pine wedge]

This is not the full list

[crimson kayak]

Alpha plus could literally snap titans in half with their minds and summon legions of Greater Daemons

[near wasp]

0-0

[crisp heath]

Alpha Plus is basically a level 10 discipline in Vampire the Masquerade

The level 10 ability for any discipline in VtM is "plot device"

[copper patrol]

[crimson kayak]

Then there's Beta/Gamma Plus who's basically Emperor/Malcador/Ancient Eldar level and Zeta Plus that's basically GOD

[pine wedge]

Alpha Plus psykers are basically killed as soon as they're discovered, or captured to feed to the Emperor (extra juicy battery). They do not make useful Imperial servants, generally speaking, though maybe there's a Space Marine Librarian that qualifies for that power level

[near wasp]

Mephiston maybe?

[pine wedge]

Magnus the Red is definitely one

But yeah.

He's no good now.

[crimson kayak]

Magnus is definetly Beta/Gamma Plus

[crisp heath]

I don't think there's been any canon alpha plus psykers stable enough to not attempt destroying everything they see

[pine wedge]

Well, Malcador

[vale shuttle]

The Emperor is A+ isn't h

e?

[green loom]

Mephiston and Tigurius

[pine wedge]

I don't find this stuff particularly useful, any grade beyond Alpha Plus

[crimson kayak]

True

[green loom]

Mephiston is the current strongest imperial psyker alive iirc

[pine wedge]

Emps is in a league of his own.

He defies all classification. So yes, A+

[crisp heath]

I was referring to the ones who are given an explicit rating, since the actual power scaling is kind of bullshit

[pine wedge]

Because that covers anyone too powerful to be graded normally

[near wasp]

Ive never seen any grading beyond a+

[crystal forum]

or just any powerful psyker that a isn't named character. the really high ones on the power level are pretty much incapable of controlling themselves

[crimson kayak]

Btw yeah, Canon Alpha plus include Malcador who almost killed horus for trying to say a lost primarch name, the Burning Princess who could fireball spaceships like a dnd level 20 sorcerer, the Apex Twins who took over an entire BlackShip while 6 years old

Then 3 Nurgle guys too if I remember correctly

[crystal forum]

as far as i know really powerful psykers die extremely quickly from mistakes they make

plus they're very tasty for demons

[pine wedge]

There's a few unnamed alpha plus psykers that appeared in one of the Eisenhorn novels, captured by the Inquisition and part of a parade to celebrate some victory or other that got terrorist attacked by Chaos and the psykers escaped

[near wasp]

Thats not good xD

[thick cedar]

So Alpha Plus power level is easily over 9000?

[pine wedge]

They immediately turned the entire hive city in a nightmare hellscape, mindcontrolling thousands of citizens at once and laying waste to everything they saw

[crisp heath]

You know the whole Black Pariah thing was kind of bullshit, but I do wonder what would happen if you just straight up tried to feed one of those to Emps instead of that convoluted stuff Erebus tried to pull

[green loom]

That was the Apex twins

[pine wedge]

They acted entirely on instinct, unable to control themselves beyond a primal will to survive

[green loom]

I think

[copper patrol]

ah yes

let us have 2 nukes

in our parade

[crystal forum]

nuke is an understatement

they could probably exterminatus an entire planet if they overloaded

[pine wedge]

It was the same parade where Ravenor almost died, one of my favorite sequences from that series

Abnett made those psykers seem real scary

So yeah. Not very useful.

[crisp heath]

Honestly parades in the inquisitor series just seem to be a bad idea in general

[pine wedge]

More power does not translate to more asskicking when it comes to psykers

[crisp heath]

If Eisenhorn is in town, absolutely do not hold a parade

[crimson kayak]

Yeah, the Apex Twins kill count amounts too:

An entire BlackShip of Inquisitorial retinue, crew and attached Sisters of silence
A fuckton of Inquisitor and their retinues

And the Thracian Atrocity too yeah

[near wasp]

More power just means your soul is tastier

[crimson kayak]

(btw they are still free and roaming the Agripinaa sector )

[crystal forum]

blows up pancake with mind

[pine wedge]

Oh shit yeah I forgot about that

This is why you should really just kill them on sight lol

Silly Inquisition

[crimson kayak]

Also yeah, let's remember that's all while they were between 6 and 7 year old

[near wasp]

But there souls make the cosmic nightlight glow

[crisp heath]

Honestly the appearance of an Alpha Plus sounds like the exact situation that they keep Culexus around for, you'd think we'd have a story about that by now

[crimson kayak]

Btw

[pine wedge]

Yeah the lore around blanks is weird. If they're so strong against chaos, why are the grey knights psykers??? Smh

[crimson kayak]

Want to know something funnier about the Thracian Massacre?

There was over 30 Alpha Plus there

[crisp heath]

The strongest blank in the setting got possessed, somehow

[crystal forum]

is there a single blank astartes actually

[pine wedge]

Not that i know of

[near wasp]

Maybe blanks arnt compatible with geneseed

[crimson kayak]

Probsbly one of the king in yellow experiment lol

[crystal forum]

also why do we mainly see female blanks? what's up with that

there's a whole ass army of blank women. why

[pine wedge]

Women get all the superpowers

[crisp heath]

Answer: This unit does not know

[pine wedge]

Men are genetically engineered super soldiers, women are saints and blanks. It is known.

[crimson kayak]

Must keep the fratboy and burly jacked man aesthetic by forcefully making women unattractive by force no matter how good looking they are.

/S

[vale shuttle]

it's because they couldn't do sisters of battle for 30k so they made something up

[near wasp]

I know some male blanks go to the assassin temples

[crystal forum]

adeptus sororitas are just battle nuns. they're not specially gifted so it makes sense. sisters of silence though?

[vale shuttle]

and they can't do female space marines because the 40k fanbase will throw a tantrum

[crisp heath]

There is one implied blank space marine, I'm trying to find him

[vale shuttle]

so that's why the sisters of silence are a thing

[crisp heath]

no confirmed blanks though

[pine wedge]

I think even Eisenhorn's Distaff, his organization of blanks, was mostly women, like Bequin

But not sure

[vale shuttle]

Grey knight gravedigger

[crisp heath]

yeah in the Emperor's Gift, I was trying to actually find the name or passage though

[crystal forum]

there must be some lore blurb somewhere that explains why female blanks are preferred

[crimson kayak]

Also it's kinda explained why SoS are all female if you go for the Pentacanaes explanation

[pine wedge]

Speaking of that book, the Grey Knight named Hyperion is actually Zael, the teenage latent psyker from the Ravenor novels

The kid addicted to flects, those warp glass shards

[crimson kayak]

So after years of kaldor draigo warp dust memes, we actually got a warpdrug addict into the grey knights

[pine wedge]

Yes

[near wasp]

Hey man pass the warpstone

[crisp heath]

Huh, apparently the grey knights have more than one blank

[pine wedge]

And not just any Grey Knight

That scrappy little junkie grew up to break Angron's sword

[crisp heath]

They have a whole group of gravediggers they artificially blank

[pine wedge]

"Hyperion achieved early notoriety as the "Blade Breaker" amongst the Astartes of the Space Wolves Chapter as he had used his psychic abilities to break the sword wielded by the Daemon Primarch Angron during the First War for Armageddon."

Crazy shit

[crisp heath]

Phlegyras was the named one btw

[pine wedge]

Oh nice

Why gravediggers...?

[crisp heath]

Exorcists are also kind of artificial blanks, but they aren't referred to as such. They just don't have any souls/warp presence.

[crisp heath]

I'd imagine it's because a dead Grey Knight is supposed to be completely forgotten once the Bell of Lost Souls tolls for him, and the blanks have some kind of role in the "forgetting" process

that's just speculation on my part though, like I said the one named one we have isn't even confirmed to be blank, just implied

[green loom]

Emperor's Gift is funny

[languid salmon]

I heard a theory that the blank gene is carried on the X chromosome, since women have 2 X chromosomes they’re more likely to end up with it.

[ivory canyon]

women don't have souls

[storm jungle]

As a woman I can confirm.

[green loom]

Hmm

Hmmmmm

[summer rover]

it's going to be very funny if they made that for AoS stormvermin models and forgot about this admittadly very silly art.

[green loom]

That's what i thought first but the Stormvermind halberds aren't that clean usually

And the art and image both have that little tassel and the gap

[summer rover]

johann Love-the-emperor and his collection of 50 wearing knives and poisons

yeah, it's just a pretty basic polearm design with the blood-groove of a knife on it is why.

i like the "psychic enhancer" bolted to his noggin the best. let's get THAT for a darktide cosmetic.

[crimson kayak]

also if you look at stormvermin models they have a variety of glaives

[copper patrol]

it do look a bit too clean tho

too clean and refined

[crimson kayak]

anyhow i still want skaven Warsuits and Cogworm shock vermin models

because nothing is better than fantasy rat Skitarii and Dreadnoughts/Knights

[copper patrol]

hmm those are like

exactly the same design

[crimson kayak]

??

[copper patrol]

I mean the pictures

[crimson kayak]

oh yeah

[copper patrol]

I didn't look super closely at first but those are identical blades shapes

[crimson kayak]

Most probably used the model as a base for the drawing

I do that all the time when drawing warhammer

[crystal forum]

saw teeth on a polearm because why not

[storm jungle]

hes a Gland Warrior so not the most mentally stable person around

[crystal forum]

don't know why you'd put the saw teeth on the cutting edge instead of the spine but hey grimdark

ok no seriously what is that blade made for

the more i look at it the stupider it gets

[storm jungle]

its an old mid 2000's warhammer design

dont try to make sense of it

[crystal forum]

but like

the edge is curved for slashing

which makes it really bade at thrusting

then there's saw teeth that makes slashing useless

are you just supposed to slap people with it

[storm jungle]

Dont think about it

[crimson kayak]

ah yes, saying this in the universe where there's literally chainsaw weapons everywhere you lookj

[crystal forum]

ok but chain saw weapons make sense in my head

[crimson kayak]

but not in reality lol

[storm jungle]

40k has dumb weapons but this is just a knife on a stick, dont look so deep into it

[copper patrol]

it is quite literally

a knife on a stick

[crystal forum]

at least you get what the chainsword is made for

[storm jungle]

ITS JUST

A KNIFE

[crystal forum]

but why is it on a stick

[copper patrol]

it is catachan made looks like from the old art

[storm jungle]

OH MY GOD

[copper patrol]

so again it is quite literally

[storm jungle]

[crimson kayak]

a glaive is literally a knife on a stick

[copper patrol]

a knife on a stick

this one in particular

you know how catachans are with knives

[crystal forum]

the blade to stick ratio is very different

[viscid bluff]

it isnt the size of the blade that matters its how u use it

cmon

[crystal forum]

true

[crimson kayak]

yes, and this are catachans who think sword-length weapons are small knives lol

[storm jungle]

That isnt a catachan

but its basically just "generic superhuman person"

[crimson kayak]

it isnt?

[storm jungle]

Yeah its a gland warrior

[copper patrol]

the weapon is labeled as a catachan dueling glaive

[storm jungle]

I think the writers just mixed it up

[crimson kayak]

ooooh

[copper patrol]

in this

[storm jungle]

Also lots of things get lost on the concept art sheet

[crystal forum]

that guy is also a psyker

[green loom]

Anyone wanna see some sketchis

[crystal forum]

what's scarier than a psyker? a psyker with a knife

[storm jungle]

Darktide Moment

[crystal forum]

he'll make you question your sanity then stab you for crack money

anybody got any favorite tank variants lore wise

[green loom]

I like the Castigator

I think

The SoB tank rhino

[crystal forum]

the AI titan?

[storm jungle]

no no

the OTHER Castigator

whos not the other Castigator

You can't make this shit up fuck me

[crystal forum]

man i hate lore like the castigator titan

[storm jungle]

that lore is like ancient

and is been mentioned once

so its fiiiine

[crystal forum]

supposedly dark age tech that's been copied by the imperium

like the leman russ being a literal dark age STC found by the space wolves

you're telling me that a huge lumbering WW1 looking tank is dark age technology

[storm jungle]

it was ooooold lore

from the cursed days of 2006

[crystal forum]

the 2000's really was "everything goes" for lore huh

[copper patrol]

most of the lore around imperium vehicles is pretty stupid

"it is a light scout tank"

my ass it is

[crystal forum]

the tank designations make little sense yeah

so there's medium, leman russ
heavy - rogal dorn
superheavy - baneblade and variants

where the fuck is the light tank

[storm jungle]

Do you mean the uh baneblade thing

[copper patrol]

yeah

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats not real

[copper patrol]

good

[storm jungle]

the community just made it up

Same with "the leman russ was a tractor"

which it wasnt lmao

[crystal forum]

what lol

i thought the land raider was a tractor

[storm jungle]

Hell no

it was made by a guy

[crystal forum]

Wait no not the raider

the land crawler

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah thats literally a agriculture vehicle

[crystal forum]

can't find any models of those

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Crawler

yeah that was Epic™️

which is basically extinct now

[crystal forum]

rip

[copper patrol]

some of the top speeds for vehicles are pretty dumb as well

[crystal forum]

ok so was the land raider always supposedly named after a guy called land or did they try to justify a dumb name

[copper patrol]

from what I remember

Arkhan land

[crimson kayak]

i mean, we pretty much know that warhammer lore is good as long as you don't look at numbers

[crystal forum]

tank stats are funny yeah

[copper patrol]

like what was the top speed of the baneblade

like 20mph

or something really low

[crystal forum]

35 km/h on road but apparently a well tuned engine can go 70km/h which is fucking insane

what kind of oil are they using that makes their engines half efficient

for leman russ

[crystal forum]

have you seen how big those things are though

[copper patrol]

yes but it is the year 40k

[crimson kayak]

25kph on road and 18kph offroad

[crystal forum]

that's fairly decent for how absolutely massive it is

[crimson kayak]

for 300 tons of vehicle

[crystal forum]

tech degrades and shit. i think the fellblade went faster

[crystal forum]

an m1 abrams is 55 tons

lol

and the abrams is considered heavy for a battle tank

[copper patrol]

like that speed makes sense for something now

[crimson kayak]

yep, and uses a V18 wich is the engine of a train/ultra haul truck

[crystal forum]

a modern MBT can go like 45 mph on road

[copper patrol]

idk I just feel like something in the year 40k that is used extensively by a military force would be a little faster

[crimson kayak]

you should also think that was is waged very differently

[crystal forum]

that's not what most militarum vehicles are made for. they like slow and armoured with a shit ton of guns

astartes have faster stuff because that's how they operate

[crimson kayak]

anyhow yeah, the baneblade speed is realistic when you compare it to the closest real life thing wich is this in terms of size and 60 tons less in weight.

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/tank-gif-19600921

Average land raider

[crimson kayak]

and this goes only 60kmh

[crystal forum]

keep in mind baneblades have a ton of tech in them. most of its operation is automated

all those guns would require a massive amount of crew

10 people are needed to crew it

[crimson kayak]

also remember tanks can shoot actually pretty far, so when you have a mobile beast like a baneblade you really just have to put it in an advantage spot and make it rain hellfire

[crystal forum]

the t-35, a really dumb massive waste of money required 10 crew also and it only had 4 turrets

the same amount of crew

[crimson kayak]

and goes the same speed of the baneblade lol

(also apparently a leman russ goes the same speed of a baneblade)

[green loom]

Am I allowed to post random art here, since the fan art thing says "darktide fan art"

[storm jungle]

Theres no rule against it go ahead

[green loom]

Hell yeah

Here, random primaris

[crystal forum]

the leman russ speed is very inconsistent

[storm jungle]

That is very good 👀

[crystal forum]

i assume it's like 60 km/h in favorable conditions

[storm jungle]

also black templar so im banning you now

https://tenor.com/view/god-of-war-gif-26102193

[crystal forum]

puuuurging with my kiiin

[storm jungle]

this is a joke dont kill me

[copper patrol]

[crystal forum]

i find the shadowsword very funny

so you have a titan killing tank

but it's so massive that hiding it from a titan is extremely hard

[green loom]

Actually a Blood Angel

[crystal forum]

you'd think they'd make a titan killing plane instead

[storm jungle]

[green loom]

Can see the blood drop on the lower part

[crystal forum]

it's pretty obviously alpharius after drinking some cramberry juice

[green loom]

Proportions are messed up because I drew it mid Grammar lecture with a sore throat and headache

[crystal forum]

i wish i could draw

[green loom]

I can't, it's not too hard

[crystal forum]

starting from nothing is the hard part

then getting over your crippling feeling of inferiority

[green loom]

I still haven't gotten over that lol

[copper patrol]

[green loom]

I should continue my homebrew chapter at some point

[crystal forum]

is that a pseudo orthodox cross

[green loom]

Cross of Lorraine in this case

Or Cross of Anjou ig

[copper patrol]

I need to figure out a logo for mine

[astral whale]

The only thing that is unbelievable about the Land Raider is the reliability. No way that thing doesn't break down often.

[copper patrol]

thinking a forward facing wolf with it's mouth open and the the blood angel drop in the open mouth

[green loom]

This used to be my pfp

[crystal forum]

ever wondered how hard it must be to replace tracks on any imperial tank

on the plus side, im pretty sure rhinos can drive upside down if you remove the track guards

[reef kite]

When the Grenadier mentions “Readying an Omicron Mortis intercession”, dafaq does he mean? Is that the name of a grenade? Is it guard codes?

[green loom]

Think it's similar to how some of the vets shout "Bastion 220 combat stance"

So just a tactic

[crystal forum]

probably one of the only times professional vet says something that sounds professional

[reef kite]

I mean he uses the codes at least

[crystal forum]

it just makes him sound like a new guy to me lol

[reef kite]

I mean those voice lines probably just exist so the loose canon has something to mess up

[astral whale]

No, there isn't suspension on the top side. Why would there be?

[crystal forum]

you don't need suspensions to drive

[astral whale]

On a Tank? Yes you do. Your tracks will break.

[crystal forum]

not like space marines need it anyways

[crystal forum]

hey i said it'll drive, i didn't say it'll be happy about it

i wish there was a leman russ variant without a turret

you could fit a massive gun if you remove it

or even make it into an APC

[storm jungle]

Just combat jargon

that and as said above it sounds cool

[crystal forum]

gnnn i just don't know what variant should be my first leman

[storm jungle]

Demolisher

in the honor of Dorktide

(:

[crystal forum]

is there one in darktide?

[near wasp]

[green loom]

There's multiple

We head to a tank factory in the reactor sabotage mission, there's some deployed on Chasm Terminus assassination, and you can see some on Throneside

[crystal forum]

so it's a leman russ with a big anti structure cannon

oh wait shit it's rocket assisted

it's literally a sturmtiger

[green loom]

Yes it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8R6HePtgKk&ab_channel=radzioc

[crystal forum]

i am tempted now

honestly i was thinking of making a vanquisher

but i think those things are a bit overpowered on the tabletop

and you dont get vanquisher cannons in a leman russ kit so i'll look like the guy who made himself a rare vehicle to look different

[crimson kayak]

so a Manta?

[crimson kayak]

don't speak to me or my sons ever again until you do atleast one engagement protocol kappa one maximus

[green loom]

Should I add any other stuff? Still some space left on the page

[crimson kayak]

legs

btw love the helmet with the laurel design

[green loom]

It's just the uhh

Castellan helmet

As in the Guard one

It's gonna be one of these goons

[crimson kayak]

isn't the castellan without the guard?

[green loom]

Ye

[crimson kayak]

faceguard*

[green loom]

That part I added in

I could never do faces and I'm rusty so

[crimson kayak]

don't worry, i have the same problem with that and... shoes of all things

[green loom]

Shoes are hard because angles

Marine feet in particular are nightmarish because of how un-ergonomic they are

Not to mention massive

[crimson kayak]

god don't get me started on those fucking things that always look flat as fuck until you give them shadows and lights

[green loom]

Mood kindred

I opt to just cover the feeet

[crimson kayak]

my biggest pain was drawing a bunch of deathwatch guys for a old discord 40k rp i was in

[near wasp]

I cannot draw for the life of me i just prefer to write

[green loom]

I'm going to get myself a proper sketchbook tomorrow so I'll probably start doing more traditional stuff

I go from not bad to good a lot

[copper patrol]

I hate that it reminds me of that fucking meme

[green loom]

Excited Soy Marinejack

[crimson kayak]

lol

btw, considering we are on a spree of random drawings here's one of those old deathwatch guys i made

[green loom]

Famcy

I can feel the pain that went into those feet

[crimson kayak]

lol, the worst was the face, as it's literally me retracing a model.

[green loom]

I just really can't do colours beyond like simple shading

[crimson kayak]

btw get also the lobster commissar

this one is even older i think

[green loom]

I'm looking through my files now

lmao I forgot about this

Found some old Fan concept for the Phantine

Ah and one last thing

[storm jungle]

[copper patrol]

[crimson kayak]

I mean, make the marine a bit chonkier and you are golden

[crimson kayak]

What class says this?

[copper patrol]

sounds like loner psyker

[storm jungle]

ENTIRELY bullseye guess yes thats him

Also Ede all of this is good but if you are gonna post more probably carry it over to #darktide-fan-art 👍

folks there probably got more opinions on it and such

[green loom]

Ye sorry

I'll repost

Once I'm done, anyway

[storm jungle]

All good my dude was just a suggestion

[green loom]

I'm almost finished with it so I'll add those last touches and post it

[crystal forum]

literally modern doomer humor

[green loom]

Finished

[crystal forum]

idk why people dislike the leman russ's appearance so much

[summer rover]

what, the tank? too WWII for some people

[crystal forum]

then again these people are mostly tank nerds who are incapable of imagining a tank that isn't german or american in inspiration

[summer rover]

i do think the plasma version was a mistake.

[crystal forum]

i'm genuinely annoyed by the desire to have everything militarum be WW1 or napoleonic inspired

[summer rover]

i mean, the krieg ARE the most popular right now...

[crystal forum]

krieg can eat my whole ass

idk how people don't get bored of their one single gimmick

trench warfare is also really overdone

[summer rover]

it IS the ideal way to use guard ironically.

and they've still got more character than cadians and catachans.

which are "trench warfare but more bland" and "dude did you ever see rambo? or predator? no just the first ones" respectively

[coarse pumice]

found him, Leman Russ

[summer rover]

the first primarch ever seen

they should just rbing him back like that and refuse to explain anything

[coarse pumice]

yeah

[pseudo depot]

Armageddon Steel Legion: Krieg but cooler

[plush mason]

you mean 1

[summer rover]

i know what i meant

[plush mason]

its literally a tall mark 4 with a turret on top lol. thats frankly my only problem with it

[green loom]

*less

[summer rover]

now you're just being wrong on purpose as bait.

[green loom]

Character wise they're a more boring Vostroya

And look nowhere near as cool

They should've gone harder on the Adrian helmets, now they're just cheap Wehraboo bait

[summer rover]

still better than cadia, the army whose whole personality is "from cadia, planet of cadians"

[green loom]

A fair trade off for the coolest warcry in the setting

[plush mason]

that seems highly subjective

[green loom]

Obviously if you disagree with me you are no better than the Austrian painter smhsmh

[plush mason]

lol

i was unaware i was on twitter

[plush mason]

OG steel legion was literally the ww2 german army lol

[green loom]

Still is

Though they use less horses

[plush mason]

nah they are more american/british army africa now

mostly because of all the backlash the OG look got lol

[green loom]

They still use German paratrooper helmets don't they?

[plush mason]

nope

US army washbowls

tho their NCOs use an stylized stalhelm with an enlarged neck guard

[pseudo depot]

Yeah they look like all the major combatants in the WW2 North African campaign combined imo

[green loom]

There any newer art of them?

[pseudo depot]

No idea if this is official art or not

[plush mason]

yeah i stand a bit corrected. their helmets are a cross of the german paratrooper and the US m1

[pseudo depot]

Great minds think alike

Not saying that Germany in WW2 is great mind lmao I can see how that’s going to be misconstrued already

Just saying we posted the same picture

[plush mason]

so just like DKOK their kit is a fusion of the various forces in a respective front

[green loom]

Might draw them tomorrow

[pseudo depot]

When Aqshy was getting people who participated in the book club for 6 months straight their in game cosmetics of their choice, I asked for a Steel Legion set for the veteran

No idea if that has been officially released yet or not, I may be the only person in Darktide with a Steel Legion veteran

[plush mason]

lol

[green loom]

There's still people who think it's a DK set

[plush mason]

how

[copper patrol]

gas mask

[plush mason]

it is yellow as hell and has all the markings of the steel legion

[copper patrol]

gas mask = kreig don't you know

[plush mason]

then they are both dumb as hell and color blind

[pseudo depot]

I think Steel Legion is not well known enough that your average Darktide player is not gonna know who they are

Afaik they don’t have any official minis

[green loom]

I have it here somewhere

Do people not read?

[pseudo depot]

No they don’t

My biggest realization in my adult life is that a lot people can’t be bothered to read a damn thing

[plush mason]

they dont?

[green loom]

They used to

[pseudo depot]

Not in current production I think

[green loom]

A full metal range

[plush mason]

ahhh

[green loom]

Went up for made to order briefly at the start of April i think

Around Warhammer fest

[pseudo depot]

Yeah Idt they’ve had any minis since GW switched to plastic

[green loom]

They're old metal models

[plush mason]

well maybe Yarrick died so they could get an updated model line

[green loom]

Lol they won't

Krieg has supplanted them in popularity

[pseudo depot]

Nah they def won’t. Have to kitbash them yourself

[plush mason]

rip

[green loom]

So we'll only get more Krieg if anything

[pseudo depot]

Or source them from a 3rd party

In which case you can’t use them in a tournament or anything if you play

[green loom]

I'm surprised the rough riders didn't come with built in Death Riders

[plush mason]

like. does Krieg even have any note worthy characters? afaik in very book they are in they are mostly just there and largely ignored lol

literal background faction

[copper patrol]

no

lmao

[green loom]

Most characters they get die in the same book or have been dead since forever, they don't do personality

[pseudo depot]

Never read a Krieg book. Isn’t their whole schtick that they’re a bunch of faceless cogs in a machine and possible clones lol

[plush mason]

yup

[green loom]

Sometimes that, sometimes they're just slightly more willing to die guardsmen, sometimes they're literal unfeeling zombies

[green loom]

They're not possible clones, they're straight up made with artificial wombs given to them by the Admech

[pseudo depot]

Ah okay. That’s kinda cool I guess?

Krieg is easily the least interesting IG sub faction to me

Less Krieg more Savlar Chemdogs

Wish there was minis for the Lucifer Blacks

[green loom]

Don't they look like black armoured cadians?

[plush mason]

good question

afaik there is no official art of them

nor any real lore on them to boot

[green loom]

Iirc they're like 99% ceremonial so fancy Carapace in some old plate armour style would be fitting imo

[green loom]

More lore than KRIEG

[plush mason]

hell arent they just one of 4 IG regiments that guard the palace?

[green loom]

There's more than 4 but yes

They specifically guard the Senate

And/or the high lords

[plush mason]

the imperium has a Senate?

[pseudo depot]

They’re also one of the few regiments remaining from the 30k Imperial Army

[green loom]

Well "senate"
I think the building is where the High Lords have their meetings and stuff

[pseudo depot]

I wanna say they make an appearance in either Vaults of Terra or Watchers of the Throne, forget which

[green loom]

Also apparently the High Lords and such collectively are known as the "Senatorum Imperialis"

[green loom]

They appear in the beast books

I know that

[plush mason]

well more a namesake iirc. the unit was disbanded after the heresy and the restructuring of the imperial army but was reinstated sometime after

[pseudo depot]

Ah I believe you’re right

[green loom]

Yeah they're a Terran regiment now, psychindoctrinated and only really guarding the palace like all the other Terran regiments

They only keep the name because ceremonial

[plush mason]

yeah

[pseudo depot]

Here’s everything they appear in

Forgot they’re mentioned in Legion

Per Lexicanum they were dissolved post Beast and reformed at some undetermined date

[green loom]

Ye

They get dissolved because of the harlequins

But someone figures they may as well have them so brings them back

[pseudo depot]

Looks like the only original Imperial Army regiment still around in canon is the Catharti Arraigners

And they only get a passing mention in Watchers of the Throne

[plush mason]

tbf the fact they are still here at all is impressive

[versed ledge]

Y'all ever wondered how a recruiting video for the imperial guard would look like

Or how an Eldar would react upon getting the equivalent of a draft notice

[crystal forum]

i don't think they need voluntary recruits lol

and a poster with a can of food saying "you'll get more than starving rations!" is enough for most people

[summer rover]

just a guy eating canned beef stew with the message "Join the Imperial Gaurd!" scrolling under it. they should put that in the game

[signal bramble]

It looks like a recruiting video you’d see on our tv now. In one book they gave an example.

An ork is about to kill a family, then gets saved by a soldier, and the little kid and soldier salute each other with the Aquila.

[versed ledge]

Which one

[versed ledge]

Oh.. that's actually pretty good

[signal bramble]

Let me get the name.

Outgunned.

There’s an entire propaganda order arm of the administratum that makes war movies showing the guard winning and they make commercials to.

There are also recruiting posters and propaganda we see in the novel Bloodlines.

There’s a side plot where the main character’s daughter wants to join the guard because they promise vacation time, galactic travel, wealth, glory, and easy victories over the enemies of the emperor.

[versed ledge]

Vacation time? Sign me up

[desert dust]

https://youtu.be/DcDWMb6uins

[plush mason]

like is the story of star ship troopers suppose to be funny?

or is it a case of the movie being so bad it became funny and there for became good

[signal bramble]

It’s meant to be a criticism of fascism.

You could argue it’s not funny but the messages and the point it conveys are still valid.

[copper patrol]

p much

[signal bramble]

It’s also meant to be a B grade sci-fi movie.

Yeah.

[plush mason]

the only message i got from the movie was "man the humans are even dumber in the future than we are now"

[signal bramble]

To have kids they have to fight in the military. Everything is propagandized.

Your interpretation is valid but it’s very surface level tbh.

I’m not saying it’s some deep philosophical masterpiece because it isn’t. But there are some more subtle themes present

[desert dust]

The moive was a parody of the book since the book seems very "fascist" while the director of the film grew up under a authoritarian regime

[plush mason]

ah

that explains a lot

[signal bramble]

It was always meant to be a criticism of militarism and fascism under a B grade sci-fi movie.

I actually really like the movie and the themes in it and the other stuff focusing on the Federation.

[desert dust]

Also the author made a ton of arguments just shitting on pacifists and what not but also has other scifi books with loads of pro pacifists arguments.

[plush mason]

i liked the movie too. and its still one of my top rated sci fi settings

[desert dust]

It's a fun movie

[plush mason]

its just always been strange to me as it feels like it wants to be very serious but is so over the top it just cant be

[desert dust]

You ever read the book?

[plush mason]

nope

never even knew it existed until just a few months ago

[desert dust]

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=starship+troopers+audiobook

There's like 4 different free ones on YT

[balmy abyss]

So anyone looked into the "Dark King." Its a name I have come across a few times now more recently with the Horus Heresy novels coming to an end and the fact that Johnson has return and the Emperor seems to be getting stronger.

[summer rover]

it's bel'akor, so you can ignore it. he'll beef the landing, same as always

[versed ledge]

Movie criticized fascism, the book promoted it though in a way...

[plush mason]

that explains a lot

[versed ledge]

The movie brought everything we love about the series, and in the book, the bugs were...well, they were smart, much like us, and think of the synonym for T'au

They were that...

Honestly it was a really wild read and lengthy manifesto disguised as a sci-fi drama

[desert dust]

I think the interesting part is the author said he creates worlds with different systems and argues for and against them

[pseudo depot]

Robert Heinlein hit every corner of the political compass during his life lol. He wrote Starship Troopers during one of his more extreme phases

40k draws a lot of inspiration from Starship Troopers, both the book and the movie

I know the movie came out after Rogue Trader, but a lot of what we recognize as the modern 40k imperial guard is taken from the Starship Troopers movie. Indoctrinated men and women fighting for things they’ve been drilled to be ignorant about.

[vale shuttle]

also the aesthetics. the imperial guard looks very "starship trooper-y"

[signal bramble]

The guard are an amalgamation of various soldiers tbh.

[balmy abyss]

I am very doubtful on that. Mainly for the fact that Bel'akor is a failure in the eyes of the chaos gods and he isnt really one with a single ideology or a strong belief backing. Vashtorr on the other hand can build that belief structure through the Dark Mechanicus lets say, doubt he will ever become a God though. Or the Emperor who is given power through the worship.

[balmy abyss]

Some of the biggest aspects of ideology from the movie was presented very early on in the film with the school scene. State above the individual and people are not born with certain rights, those rights are gained by serving the state. It is an interesting look into fascism. I have never read the novels but I am aware of some of the key differences.

[signal bramble]

Yup. But it also allowed anyone to serve in the government. So long as you were willing to take the pledge of service they’d find a job for you.

Then you’d be able to be part of the franchise.

[balmy abyss]

The Tau as a race, I find amusing. Not in a sense as I find them funny, but more as a reflection of watching a child learn something the hard way and still working to achieve their goal. They are young and naïve which is to be expected for such a race much like I would expect humanity would be once we are able to travel amongst the stars with little hinderance of distance.

[balmy abyss]

To add to the whole idea of fascism. 40k's humanity is yes, fascist, xenophobic, villainous, etc. I was around since late 2nd edition so I knew this was not something one should be praising about their factions but understood, no one was good in the 40k universe. I also came into the game with a very open and welcoming community. I hear more and more now though that not every community is that open and they are toxic as well as some players latching onto the ideals of their favorite faction seriously rather than seeing it for being a dark perception of humanity. I actually lost the words for what I am trying to say. Contradiction to reality, not glorification, or something. Anyways, back to the lore part of all this. I wished that in the Horus Heresy series they gave us the readers a better glimpse of what the Imperium would have been with the Emperor still able bodied. To see the Emperor's vision. What things could have been in contrast to the grim dark dystopian reality that majority of the Imperium is. Something to help emphasis the non-glorification of the Imperium and the 40k universe.

[versed ledge]

The imperium: "stick with us, even though we're really REALLY terrible people, we're also you, and you are human,"

[balmy abyss]

Pretty much how I am a Guard player.

[signal bramble]

“Still better than dark Eldar if you think about it.”

[balmy abyss]

Do I have to think about that? Its a little close to bed time."

[desert dust]

I think if you read it then think about real life Vietnam war and how America just fell apart.
You have politicians in the book who have a major failure in war and instantly step down to let the next person try while they advise the new one.
In real life you get a government in a war that will figure out they need to get out its a complete failure but they realise all they need to do is drag out the war 6 more months and feed a few million more young citizens into the meat grinder and you can then make it the new government's problem to LOSE the war.

[versed ledge]

Same, but also because I see the guard being more relatable. Because at the end of the day, the guard are filled with people just trying to survive and make it through at least the next hour

[vale shuttle]

true, buit the mainline imperial guard - the cadians - definitely look starship trooper-y

[summer rover]

i think it's more starship troopers and cadians look like generic army dudes

[arctic talon]

^

They got that toy soldier asthetic

[vale shuttle]

<@&735928989146939404>

[coarse pumice]

space marines iirc were inspired by the sarduakar

the Imperium could be also based on Foundation

but then literally every modern space sci-fi owes something to foundation

it's kind of like the lord of the rings of Scifi in that regard

[crisp heath]

I miss old sci fi like Our Lady of the Sauropods

[orchid lark]

Fantasy was actually just Lord of the Rings

40k was like a mish mash of Dredd, Dune, Star Trek, Star Wars, and some Fantasy

Dredd and Dune being the more quote unquote major inspos

Corpse Starch being a Soylent Green thing

Space Marines were like Space Police Military swat things

Bolters were like what the Judges pistols from Dredd

Highly advanced weapons with fingerprint scanners that only work with the intended users?

Thats a Dredd thing

[crisp heath]

Eh Fantasy was more like D&D getting back to it's wargame roots, D&D was heavily inspired by D&D but added and changed a lot of stuff

[orchid lark]

GW wanted to get the LoTR license

Its the reason why orks are green

[crisp heath]

and eventually they did :3

but yeah that's besides the point

[orchid lark]

Yeah it all comes back anyhoo

But everyone often forgets the Dredd DNA in 40k

[crisp heath]

Oh GW didn't make orcs green though, that was already well established by the time GW came along

Tim Kirk was a LotR illustrated heavily influenced by Marvel who drew orcs based off the Green Goblin, and then later as green, dragon-like monsters

[vale shuttle]

40k is a beautiful chimera of all sorts of influences

i wouldn't have it any other way

[orchid lark]

1977 era dnd orcs were pigfaced men

i say dnd

its more of just

the initial design of them were pigfaced monster lookin dudes

[crisp heath]

Yeah those 1977 orcs were also green or blue according to their flavor text in the monster manual

[orchid lark]

blue or brown

or nurgle brown green

like kobolds

[crisp heath]

Yeah I was about to say brownish green

Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration — brown or brownish green with a bluish sheen — highlights their pinkish snouts and ears. Their bristly hair is dark brown or black

[orchid lark]

ye olde kobolds

[crisp heath]

Gotta love old DnD, where being brown makes you disgusting lmao

I do like how in the old monster manuals kobolds are described as "dog-like" and Japan really, really ran with that idea

[orchid lark]

at some point Kobolds now became like what

little lizard-ish people?

[crisp heath]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/re-monster/images/d/d2/Kobold.png/revision/latest?cb=20190131133242

[orchid lark]

I mean Japan still went with pig faces with orks most of the time

although that may change as WoW is being injected into Japan again, and 40k being more of a thing in Japan as well

[crisp heath]

Old kobolds were pretty lizardlike too, the "dog" descriptor was to describe their faces specifically, then over time the lizard traits became more prominent and they became little dragon-men

https://64.media.tumblr.com/651faed6f67b15e6c723d8b3b96fdecc/d71a40507c11da1a-72/s540x810/98b003c2399fd3d23e6ad142ce2af263a9ec73c6.png

[orchid lark]

Werent Klingons supposed to be like Space Orcs?

[crisp heath]

Oh I don't know jack about Star Trek lmao

[orchid lark]

like Vulcans were Elves

[vale shuttle]

they look like someone's fursonas

[orchid lark]

I gotta draw them with big dongs you right

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah kobolds are really popular with Japanese furries, both the dog-like kind and the lizard kind

[orchid lark]

i might draw some furry art today.

[vale shuttle]

don't encourage me to make a comment

[vale shuttle]

also based

[orchid lark]

When I open the art program

[green loom]

I love Jurgen

[green loom]

What do you use

[orchid lark]

I got a space marine WIP, a furry WIP, and some other WIP

Clip Studio Paint

Version 1

[green loom]

Ah

[orchid lark]

Version 2 is uh

bad now

needs internet to use which is a bad bad

[green loom]

I use Krita

[orchid lark]

Krita is good

I started off with FireAlpaca (still pretty good)

but learned with Photoshop

which led to Clip Studio

[undone zodiac]

Space argonians

[green loom]

I'm leaning more to just traditional now

[orchid lark]

any reason?

[green loom]

Can't get angles right on digital for some reason

[orchid lark]

just like the feedback?

[crisp heath]

Argonians are literally space argonians

[orchid lark]

thats fair

I have trouble rotating the canvas sometimes on the softwares

[vale shuttle]

i want an army of chaos xenos who are space squirrels

flying foxes, bats, short little psychic bastards

[green loom]

Probably because I draw while my Screen is to my left which does all manner of shot to my perception

[crisp heath]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ptera-squirrel

[orchid lark]

I thought the Khajit were space Argonians, or Moon Argonians

[orchid lark]

you what

[crisp heath]

Nah, a few thousand years after the game Argonians have this like, psychic space program

[vale shuttle]

we're halfway there already

[crisp heath]

iirc the future argonians are the ones responsible for that deep space satellite that time travelled and became god but I may be misremembering

[orchid lark]

I like stuff like that

[green loom]

Imagine my Desk is against wall right
When I draw I'm usually sitting parallel to it for comfort, and so I need to turn my head

[orchid lark]

Almost read one of the green lantern series when it came to the origin of the lantern

[crisp heath]

You'd love Kirkbride's blog then

Elder Scrolls is a hard sci-fi series that's masquerading as a fantasy series

[orchid lark]

like how Gamzee is unkillable and becomes the horror terrors in Homestuck, this is a theory not actual lore

[arctic talon]

The funny elf and dwarf lore

[orchid lark]

cant sit perpendicular to the table?

[green loom]

Legs are too long

[crisp heath]

I have a friend who is obsessed with dwemer tbh

I've heard so many explanations of dwemer science

I really like Kirkbride's description of Pelinal though

Pelinal was and is an insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal from the future, you betcha.

[green loom]

A real nwah

[crisp heath]

Re: Pelinal, his closest mythical model would be Gilgamesh, with a dash of a T-800 thrown in, and a full-serving of brain-fracture slaughterhouse antinomial (Kill)3 functions stuck in his hand or head. We tend to forgive those heroes.

I just really like that you can encounter the ghost of a time travelling cyborg in Morrowind

[plush mason]

afaik in DnD Kobolds are dragonkin so that is why they are lizardlike

[crisp heath]

They were originally goblinoids

[plush mason]

where as the rat and dog versions have no relation to dragons

[plush mason]

i guess they kind of are still. goblins infused with dragon blood

[crisp heath]

Nah, kobolds were directly created by divine chromatic dragons, it was part of what got dragons kicked out of the heavens

[plush mason]

ah

[crisp heath]

Basically dragons traded their divinity for the ability to reproduce, and one of the things that was created (more magically than by normal reproduction) by the first dragons were kobolds

Or at least that's one version of it, Realmslore has a few answers for what exactly dragons were doing at that time

[plush mason]

explains the Kobold's tendency to be evil at least

[coarse pumice]

“The original idea for Chaos was Bryan Ansell’s,” Priestley said.
“He wrote a Warhammer supplement called Realms of Chaos where he came up with the gods and the demons. He produced this huge hand-written manuscript where he defined all of that, and I took what he’d written and developed it as a book.”
But Priestley’s idea of Chaos differed from Ansell’s, and in 40K he sought to expand on the concept.
“Bryan’s idea of Chaos was very much derived from [science fiction and fantasy author] Michael Moorcock,” he said. “I always thought it was a little too close for comfort, it looked like we were just copying.
“But I’d always had this sense of Chaos existing as described in Paradise Lost. I’d tried to bring elements of that into the background and gradually change it from a description of demons into a kind of force out of which came realities, a kind of literal primal chaos.
“Unless you’ve read Paradise Lost you don’t get it. The whole Horus Heresy is just a parody of the fall of Lucifer as described by Milton.”

"kind of force out of which came realities, a kind of literal primal chaos."

[hallow saddle]

I looked at picking up some Michael Moorcock works to see the roots of where chaos in Warhammer came from....holy crap he's a prolific writer!

[storm jungle]

Hes basically the grandfather of Chaos vs Order yeah

hes the one that made the 8-pointed star too lmao

[plush mason]

btw what exactly is/was the whole order and destruction faction thing in warhammer fantasy

[summer rover]

it's a holdover from when the MMO was popular.

[coarse pumice]

for GW? a way to divide armies into two easy 'over' factions for tournaments

[storm jungle]

Basically GW trying to copy Moorcock and failing

AOS does the Order vs Chaos thing better

the message is basically too much chaos and order are both basically bad and they need to always battle forever to keep a focused balance through the use of their mortal champions

With 40k theres basically no Order faction for Good Guys so its just everyone being always evil

[green loom]

AoS also handles it better because the narrative isn't horrifically shifted onto basically 1 faction exclusively

[plush mason]

aka the eternal balance. were order absolute leads to stagnation and chaos absolute leads to entropy

[storm jungle]

Basically this

[storm jungle]

Also this

it helps that Order isnt just "good"

they also do evil shit and some of the "good guy" factions are very questionable.

[plush mason]

is there any fantasy that doesnt reference that balance to some level? i have yet to find one lol

[storm jungle]

Uhhh its a mix

its either

[green loom]

Probably Warcraft because it makes no goddamn sense

[storm jungle]

• Order/Bad
• Everyones Evil

Yeah or this lmao

[green loom]

It tries to mention it but also throws it out the window every 5 seconds

Or the ever subversive

"Order is good, but actually it's bad and the darkness is actually completely fine"

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats shit

[plush mason]

nah it has it's own version which is where the eternal conflict between the light and void comes in

[green loom]

Like in Destiny

[storm jungle]

"nobody is right/both sides can be bad" is the prime and better example

[green loom]

"you don't trust da dark scruub"
Caused the fall of civilization
Whoops

[storm jungle]

Destiny is very deep since its writers actually know space science

so it gets very confusing

like trying reading the lore of the Vex

[green loom]

It's as deep as my toilet and full of about as much shit

[storm jungle]

will make your brain hurt

[green loom]

Maybe their whole mythos thing is nice but

Whatever story they have is like

Pain

[plush mason]

which is what blizzard is doing with warcraft's take on it rn lol

[storm jungle]

Yep lol

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah idgaf about the story

i just like the faction lore

Hive, Vex, Fallen etc, they are great

[signal bramble]

Destiny has a ton of lore but not much in the story department most of the time.

[storm jungle]

yep

its why i ignored it for like

since it came out at this point?

[green loom]

Blizzard are also utterly failing at it since it's basically just "everyone's wrong except you"

[signal bramble]

Ignore lore, grind season pass.