Look at the timeline between when the FBI waa founded and when they went after the KKK
#40k-lore-chat
mossy mortar
arctic talon
pretty much lol
storm jungle
your job is to work and die 
plush mason
lol
arctic talon
Rioting, protesting
broken zenith
That's mostly deferred to the local Enforcers, Arbites don't care unless it's threatening the grip of the Imperium on the planet.
mossy mortar
I think it depends. Usually regular crime isn't heresy
mossy mortar
Usually
gusty fulcrum
Well i never said they werent also the thugforce of the administratum
storm jungle
Well i never said they werent also the thugforce of the administratum
Oh yeah i know, just came to my mind
arctic talon
while an Arbite is going to shove a shockmaul down your throat for even daring to say the adeptus terra is inefficent
storm jungle
Local enforcers might be a lot more lax
Its one of the reasons why they never deploy an arbiter on their homeworld
broken zenith
That's why Necromunda (The Game smh) has Enforcers and no Arbites yet, Arbites only go to Underhive when Genestealer Cults and Chaos Cults grow big
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/30/law-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-3/
mossy mortar
I bet it depends on other factors too - namely the influence and favors that the factory side has into the adeptus terra
gusty fulcrum
I wanna see some more stuff about the ordo sepulchre
They woulda actually been a good choice as the ordo for darktide
arctic talon
That's why Necromunda (The Game smh) has Enforcers and no Arbites yet, Arbites o...
Necromunda does have a few arbites but they pretty much never do anything
gusty fulcrum
As this is thier thing
mossy mortar
Arbiters are as able to arrest the factory owners for failing to maintain order if they have a push in thr other way
broken zenith
Necromunda does have a few arbites but they pretty much never do anything
Yup, every planet has a Precinct Fortress to make sure the Imperial Compliance.
storm jungle
Yeah Enforcers are basically hired cops on Munda
arctic talon
they also are arbite rip offs in lore lol
gusty fulcrum
The ordo sepulchre basicly specilizes in zombie outbreaks and nurgle stuff like what’s happening on the hive in darktide
mossy mortar
~~its also a China reference~~
Yeah they have their own multiple levels of state security with overlapping authority
arctic talon
Which makes the arbites not like them that much ironically
storm jungle
the new book has an entry where the Enforcers shove the rioting workers due to a power outage and weld the doors shut to their working-quarters
arctic talon
I was more so talking about the never assigning a officer to their home region
broken zenith
2E Specialist Games/Fanatic - Necromunda Underhive Necromancers were stylised after the Arbites
arctic talon
China never assigns police officers to their home regions
storm jungle
Yeah otherwise you'll sympathize with your local group
mossy mortar
Since most of the PLA is set up for crowd control not actually fighting external enemies
arctic talon
yep
storm jungle
its basic logic on the eye of the superiors
broken zenith
new reboot ones are different sadly :I
arctic talon
The Imperium is pretty horrifying tbh
storm jungle
lmao yeah
broken zenith
I was just gonna but Necromunda Enforcers before they got discontinued in 2012
mossy mortar
It's just a parody of Soviet Russia/China honestly
arctic talon
I was just gonna but Necromunda Enforcers before they got discontinued in 2012
they're back
broken zenith
I envy Arbitor Ian's collection
storm jungle
Basically any fascist state
arctic talon
It's just a parody of Soviet Russia/China honestly
any facist regime tbh
storm jungle
or like dictatorship
arctic talon
its like all of them
mixed together
and distilled lol
Into the worst fucking regime
in existance
mossy mortar
They did a good job in terms of the whole divided absolute authority structure
broken zenith
they're back
The ones that returned aren't stylised after the Arbites
storm jungle
Yeah kinda
plush mason
the imperium is a parody of all human civilization it has all the failings and none of the virtues
mossy mortar
Like the Inquisition has absolute authority... And no formal resources beyond what they scrounge up and the fact that they can win most court cases
arctic talon
lol
storm jungle
they are mostly uniquely modelled due to tabletop army reasons tho so
gusty fulcrum
They originol warhammer dudes were history nerds so yeah the imperium and by extension 40k in general is a reference to alotta horrible things in history
On top of being sci fi and fantasy nerds
broken zenith
Palanite Enforcers aren't stylised after the Arbites, original 2007 Enforcers were
mossy mortar
Did you know that Chinese prisons, like most of their institutions, are meant to be mostly self-sufficient instead of centrally funded
storm jungle
On top of being sci fi and fantasy nerds
Yeah its why you dont need to look so deep into lore at times
broken zenith
mossy mortar
So they need to hustle for cash by renting out the prisoners
arctic talon
Did you know that Chinese prisons, like most of their institutions, are meant to...
Seeing as several of my family lived under their regime during Mao yes lol
mossy mortar
I imagine the imperium is like that too
broken zenith
Necromunda 2E of Specialist Games was discontinued in 2012 much like any other Specialist Game
arctic talon
Imperium prison worlds are like
gusty fulcrum
Yeah its why you dont need to look so deep into lore at times
I mean i know they are trying to cover it up more now for copyright reasons but yeah most of it is very obv referencing and spoofing
broken zenith
until 2018 reboot
arctic talon
Super self contained
mossy mortar
Your authority on paper and then your actual resources are just completely unrelated lol
arctic talon
only real thing that goes off world is penal regiments or the occasinal actual guard regiment
I.E Savlar Chem Dogs
They're a "penal" legion
gusty fulcrum
Ya imperial prison worlds can get interesting
arctic talon
they don't get the usual bomb collars and stuff
gusty fulcrum
Some are just that gaint prisons
arctic talon
instead they're allowed to loot whatever the hell they want within reason
gusty fulcrum
Where as some are kinda like australia a colony of prisoners
Only dif is they never stop being criminals
mossy mortar
I mean i know they are trying to cover it up more now for copyright reasons but ...
I hope we get an arbitrator bonus character. You only unlock it once you max levels, it can only wear the arbiyer costume, and it has custom lines like "I AM THE LEX (IMPERIALIS)" and "THE SENTENCE IS DEATH"
plush mason
I.E Savlar Chem Dogs
where is that "elite" penal legion from? the second chancers i think they are called
vapid solstice
my favorite part of lore is when the mechanicus installs a text to speech device on the golden throne and the emperor tells everyone to clal him the manly-manperor of mankind
arctic talon
where is that "elite" penal legion from? the second chancers i think they are ca...
The last chancers are an actual penal legion but the people in it are all chosen by a single guy
they're "elite" in the sense he only selects the best he can
storm jungle
Basically the Suicide Squad
arctic talon
but they still have bomb collars and everything
plush mason
ah
storm jungle
gusty fulcrum
where is that "elite" penal legion from? the second chancers i think they are ca...
Nowhere he assembles them from various prisons and penal@legions
storm jungle
they uh
arctic talon
The Salvar chem dogs are a "penal" legion since they don't have bomb collars
scenic bolt
like almost all of 40k is cribbed from popular media
arctic talon
🗿
gusty fulcrum
To be fair they were a ref to the team from the first predator movie
storm jungle
😩
gusty fulcrum
They are based on arnie and his crew
plush mason
like almost all of 40k is cribbed from popular media
take it from blizzard-activison. originality is over rated 
gusty fulcrum
For looks of the models
But they are meant to be a very customizable killteam
You could even make them into the a team if you wanted
plush mason
Nowhere he assembles them from various prisons and penal@legions
does this guy have a name?
gusty fulcrum
Cuz he literally recruits 1000s of dudes and runs them through a meatgrinder till he gets the team of like a hanfull he wants
arctic talon
does this guy have a name?
Yeah gimme a sec
mossy mortar
like almost all of 40k is cribbed from popular media
A lot is from military history and scifi nerd shit though not mainstream media
gusty fulcrum
Then he takes them@on the actual mission they are meant for
His sergent is the only man to survive this gauntlet
And he is absolutely bug nuts insane
From it
arctic talon
does this guy have a name?
Colonel Schaffer
He also accompanies his penal legion everywhere
On the front lines
gusty fulcrum
And will grant them full pardons if the survive
Hos sergeant was the only one too
But was to broken by the exp to survive long outside
And got sent back in
broken zenith
arbite esque
These are the original Jes Goodwin Arbites of 2E 1993 release and 2007 Necromunda Underhive Enforcers
gusty fulcrum
And shaffer basicly made sure he was that way
plush mason
vapid solstice
what is your favorite single moment in lore that you know of / have read?
gusty fulcrum
he is shaffers scum now and forever
plush mason
Those "fortunate" enough to be offered recruitment into the 13th Legion often choose summary execution rather than serve under Schaeffer.[1]
gusty fulcrum
I gotta read the new short the dropped
mossy mortar
what is your favorite single moment in lore that you know of / have read?
The story of how they named the land raider and land speeder vehicles
gusty fulcrum
Ya he recruits thousands to die just so he can cull them down to a handfull for the actual missions they wer erecruited for
He works with the inquisition
He basicly makes killteams for them
Outta penal legionares
Suicide squad style
Like literal hanfulls
10000 widdled down to 10 dudes
Kinda deal
plush mason
what is your favorite single moment in lore that you know of / have read?
hmmm. i would have to give it to when the chapter master of the SW did the impossible and charged at full speed in terminator armor to cut the head off the lord inquisitor at the end of months of shame
gusty fulcrum
But he doesnt lie about the full pardon
You probably will just be too insane by the time your get it to last long
broken zenith
Savlar Chem Dogs get to ride Chem Beasts, they're cool
gusty fulcrum
Like the guy who survived was made like a general or other officer rank
So you are also given rewards on top@of the pardon
The guy didnt last lien week before snapping and butchering some other officers in a bar
And shaeffer showed up smiling
mossy mortar
hmmm. i would have to give it to when the chapter master of the SW did the impos...
One of the Aaron dempski Boden books I actually liked
The Emperor's Gift for thise interested
plush mason
His fate after the mission on Armageddon is unknown. so Schaeffer has been MIA for a while it seems
gusty fulcrum
His fate after the mission on Armageddon is unknown. so Schaeffer has been MIA f...
The released a short novel following it up
Sheaffer is still alove
plush mason
ah k
gusty fulcrum
I forget the seragebts name
The main character from@the novels
Kane?
He survived his fall but is now burned beyond recognition
mossy mortar
They originol warhammer dudes were history nerds so yeah the imperium and by ext...
All fantasy nerds should be history nerds. Fantasy is just history for unremembered eras
gusty fulcrum
The demon left him as he was burning up
But i only got a bit into the first chapter
plush mason
lol
mossy mortar
Pretty slick one handed press check
arctic talon
He survived his fall but is now burned beyond recognition
Did he kill that fuck Herman Von Strab
mossy mortar
Except he has two hands free so kind of pointless
gusty fulcrum
Did he kill that fuck Herman Von Strab
I dont recall didnt make it far
gusty fulcrum
I think you can fond it onlone for free viewing
arctic talon
Because Bethesda/obsidian didn’t think that far
mossy mortar
It's hilarious to me how they've been on the same engine for like 15 years but the faces still look all fucked up
dusk patrol
plush mason
It's hilarious to me how they've been on the same engine for like 15 years but t...
tbh. its basically become a feature of both game franchises at this point
plush mason
the janky ugly NPCs are just what you expect from a FO/ES game
mossy mortar
plush mason
yes
gusty fulcrum
tbh. its basically become a feature of both game franchises at this point
I just find it funny how he bragged it wouldnt be the same engine for starfield basicly as part of the sales pitch only for it to be the damn engine again but at least kinda improved
plush mason
I just find it funny how he bragged it wouldnt be the same engine for starfield ...
lol
gusty fulcrum
I mean dudes basicly yanked funding from othe bethesda projects and (potentially)sabotaged competition
For this game
mossy mortar
Tbf there's only a few game engines with legitimately good facial animations
plush mason
ye
gusty fulcrum
Maybe not the sabotage part i think that mighta been for 76
mossy mortar
The Source engine snd Unreal engine
And uhh
I'm sure there's others I just can't think of them
plush mason
Tbf there's only a few game engines with legitimately good facial animations
and like i said. they could fix up the NPCs. but why should they? it would remove the charm of FO/ES for a lot of people
mossy mortar
Uh
plush mason
ye
mossy mortar
That's like some Stockholm syndrome shit bruh
gusty fulcrum
Basicly they paid the development yeam for rune 2 too sabotage thier game and they would hire them into bethesda
mossy mortar
They look like shit in a game ostensibly about talking to NPCs
arctic talon
The BLAM engine
mossy mortar
It's not like you can just ignore them and shoot mans
Well ok you can
But you know what I mean
plush mason
That's like some Stockholm syndrome shit bruh
ikr. im far from a FO/ES fan and all im doing is repeating what fans of both games have said lol. even skyrim NPCs are meh and poor oblivion just has not aged well at all. but people love them for that for some reason
gusty fulcrum
I mean im sure starfields gonna be an ok game but not probly worth whatever they gonna charge on release at this point
Especially depending on mod support
And coop probly wouldnt hurt
Like actual coop not this fallout 76 bull
mossy mortar
I feel like the IP will hsve to be real good to get people to buy into it as much as a preexisting franchise
Can't they just port New Vegas to Unreal Engine
mossy mortar
They never will
arctic talon
It would cost a lot of money lol
plush mason
Bethshida/Zenimax/Obsidian just make meh games over all imo so i do not have high hopes for starfield at all lol
mossy mortar
Yeah true it's basically remaking everything from scratch except the voiceovers
gusty fulcrum
Bethshida/Zenimax/Obsidian just make meh games over all imo so i do not have hig...
They are good for extensive modding where allowed at least
mossy mortar
Hey I loooved Doom and Doom Eternal
Them shits ruled
And have ruined most other shooters for me
vapid solstice
imagine a 40k rpg with gameplay and story like new vegas
mossy mortar
I'm cautiously optimistic about Rogue Trader PC
gusty fulcrum
Gimme an ork game in the vein of space marine
plush mason
Hey I loooved Doom and Doom Eternal
yeah Doom Eternal was fun. just not a big arcade shooter fan myself
gusty fulcrum
But you get bigga as ya fight
gray mulch
I want a Chaos CRPG
mossy mortar
And your loot is random of course
mossy mortar
Id enjoy an ork coop shooter
gray mulch
Give me something in the vein of like, Disco Elysium, where you play as a Chaos follower
gusty fulcrum
You get bigger and greener as you level up
Maybe your paths(mek,runherda,commando etc) unlock based on what you do and invest in
mossy mortar
Yes
broken zenith
I just wanna have an Officio Assassinorum video game to be fair
mossy mortar
Or jist stay as a ded ard boy
plush mason
is the warhammer horror line still going?
gusty fulcrum
Id enjoy an ork coop shooter
Me too
plush mason
gusty fulcrum
Ork action RPG
New gorka morka action rpg game when :p
broken zenith
GRC ❤️
Da Revolushun!
wish GW would port da red gobbo to plastic other than the festive mini
gusty fulcrum
broken zenith
green iz da best
gusty fulcrum
They should bringem back
Maybe callem something else but basicly digganobs but not just gorka morka
Any planet thats been under lengthy ork control but still has a human population seeving under them
And they just kinda go native after long enough
Maybe some waagh influence at play
broken zenith
yessss that would be awesome
reminds me of the codex witch hunters scenario versus orks
digganobz in gorkamorka were really cool
gusty fulcrum
I could see blood axes loving these guys as some kinda double agent/infiltration
worn cargo
The orks can’t have ALL the fun
supple flint
is malice still canon?
broken zenith
Sons of Malice were in Cadia Stands recently
arctic talon
is malice still canon?
They are
gusty fulcrum
Maybe they follow a special form of runtherda called a githerda
And these tend to originate as runherdas from the bloodaxes
Maybe badmoons?
As i could see them havin umies turnin out snazz dakka for sum noice teef
It would also be a good way of bringing runtherda back into the light along with releasing new squig breeds
Now that they are kinda doin stuff with the orks again
Maybe give them a warboss form called a Runtboss,gitboss or Herdaboss
gusty fulcrum
Oh yea grots n squigs def
broken zenith
Oh yea grots n squigs def
yessssss
gusty fulcrum
Ya people tend to forget grots can make alotta stuff themselves
broken zenith
ikr :c
gusty fulcrum
Not top quality even by ork standards but still surprisingly more then what youd think
Which makes you wonder what grots n squigs were like back in the days of the krork
broken zenith
I've been waiting for the GRC on mainline TT for decades now ;_;
gusty fulcrum
Would they have been krots?
arctic talon
Prolly
Grots get bigger with waaaghs
Not that much bigger
But they get smarter
And sneakier
gusty fulcrum
I know they said grots under the beasts reign were about as big as an average human
And could almost be mistaken for one in bad light
arctic talon
But grots def get more kunnin and bigger
We dunno how big they can get
Since our only krork specimen is in trazyns museam
And we dunno if it was a war boss
Or just a normal boy or a nob
gusty fulcrum
If you think about it in a way orks are just korks who havnt reached puberty
mossy mortar
Which makes you wonder what grots n squigs were like back in the days of the kro...
There was some ancient fluff bit about how the snotlings may have been the ancient brainboyz but then lost the symbiotic fungus that makes them superintelligent and now theyve just regressed into peaceful little snotlings
gusty fulcrum
If their growth is based on fighting and fighting and war in the current tome is extremely tame compared to the war in heaven
gusty fulcrum
So orks are just malnourished,stunted krorks
arctic talon
Along with the gods of the eldar
And eldar at full power psychically
And in terms of their weaponry
gusty fulcrum
Like how people wont have puberty if they are too malnourished
Either that or they just havnt actually hot puberty
Since they lifespan is relative
And we dont know if they can die of old age
So does that mean the beast is actually the example of like a teenage krork?
mossy mortar
The eldar gods were supposed to be these immense psychic constructs right?
How do we know the chaos gods didn't start as more of those
mossy mortar
Or at least became more organized and intelligent after absorbing the Eldar gods
arctic talon
The eldar gods were supposed to be these immense psychic constructs right?
We have no clue
gusty fulcrum
Its more like the chaos gods come about naturaly
While the elder gods are tools intentionally made
mossy mortar
It's never said they were natural
gusty fulcrum
But forgotten they were tools by thier makers
mossy mortar
Wr do know they killed the eldar gods
gusty fulcrum
The old ones made the eldar psychic to basicly make the eldar gods
Thats what thier role was
Godmakers
mossy mortar
Eh or were the eldar gods like the primarchs and the eldar the space marines
It's never said
gusty fulcrum
The chaos gods formed naturaly from the native emotions of living things
arctic talon
Ngl I wonder if we’ll ever find out what an eldar at full power
Really was like
Since a necron overlord laughed at Mephiston saying he wasn’t even comparable
gusty fulcrum
Eh or were the eldar gods like the primarchs and the eldar the space marines
Some lore i forget where states the old ones taught the eldar how to make psychic constructs(the gods)
plush mason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYVniOs95X0
ok these stories are great and just the right amount of creepy
gusty fulcrum
Bit the eldar eventually started worhsipping thier own creations
Whereas the chaos gods would be a more natural example
But they always exist by extension of being the primal parts of sentient conciosness
They just didnt gain sentience and individuality till way way later
Well after the war in heaven
Kinda like how the ctan where just clouds fartin around minchin suns
arctic talon
I wonder if Krorks used wraith bone armor
gusty fulcrum
Its just humans seem to be particularly tied to them as the events on earth seem to be what triggered each gods sentience coming into beong
arctic talon
I mean
gusty fulcrum
Woth exception of slannesh
arctic talon
Iirc the medival dark ages causing nurgle khorne and tzeentch
Has been retconned
I could be wrong however
gusty fulcrum
Nurgle and tzeentch are the first two to come into existence usually
mossy mortar
I thought it was khorn
gusty fulcrum
Korn comes from killing with intent for murders sake
arctic talon
Khorne is only triggered by like very intentional violence
Killing somthing for food won’t feed him at all
gusty fulcrum
Nurgle comes into play when the first being dies or does of disease
gusty fulcrum
Ya while the always exist the still have to be reborn into whatever new universe happens
plush mason
like. these 40k horror stories are cool as hell and vastly different from the other war stories common to warhammer
gusty fulcrum
And tzeentch and nurgle represent static and change
arctic talon
like. these 40k horror stories are cool as hell and vastly different from the ot...
Have you read warhammer crime
They’re really good
gusty fulcrum
The two basic things the universe needs to develope
So nurgle and tzeentch are the fist and last gods
plush mason
Have you read warhammer crime
not a big crime novel fan. i like war and horror novels mostly lol
plush mason
i bet
gusty fulcrum
As they create and destroy the universe through thier intereactions
Its just the warhammer universe is taking a particular loooong time to die
But they also are kinda dragging it along
Cuz they are just kinda having fun messing around in this unoverse
plush mason
crime novels are neat and ones set in 40k must be very interesting. but i have never read a single crime novel i could finish. they just dont do it for me
arctic talon
Yeah I can get that
gusty fulcrum
I guess some of this is talked about in some kinda conversation between nurgle and tzeentch
I don’t remember where they say its from other then i beleive a novel
Its sorta treated as them putting aside thier rivalry and shooting the shit about thier actual roles/job
For a second
Nurgle and tzeentch run the show slannesh and Khorne are just the help
plush mason
does that event give some info on why they are rivals in the great game? cause im still not really sure why they are
gusty fulcrum
Nurgle represents static being while tzeentch represents change
Basicly nurgle is order and tzeentch is chaos
In a universal balance sorta way
But nurgle is also entropy
While tzeetch is creation
plush mason
thats it huh? so not at all like Khorne and Slannesh's rivalry lol
gusty fulcrum
Think like how the eldar gods of life and entopy work in lovecraftian works
copper cliff
Nurgle represents static being while tzeentch represents change
Also not true, Nurgle represents a cycle of life and decay, so his shit is constantly changing
gusty fulcrum
They just lack the third god that represents time
gusty fulcrum
Also not true, Nurgle represents a cycle of life and decay, so his shit is const...
But its a stable cycle
plush mason
i actually hadnt read any lovecraft lol
gusty fulcrum
Tzeentch is rampant change
copper cliff
Its only as stable as becoming a pus monster is static.
Because by that logic Tzeentch is also stable change. Because he makes a lot of bird monsters.
gusty fulcrum
Its only as stable as becoming a pus monster is static.
He represents a cycle
Cycles are static
Repetitive
Tzeentch is randomness
Obv the thing i was reading words it better then i can
copper cliff
But Tzeentch isn't random, because he keeps making bird monsters.
At least, he's not random in a meta sense
Because models have to be consistent lul
gusty fulcrum
But Tzeentch isn't random, because he keeps making bird monsters.
Thats more because game with factions=themes
As much as anything
And technically the timeline thier living is one of emotional extremes
copper cliff
Also Tzeentch is a master of change not randomness, change can be consistent, such as changing people into pink/blue horrors or bird monsters.
Chaos spawn are the most random but they can exist under any chaos god
gusty fulcrum
Well see heres the thing the gods are self contradictory
In many ways
As you said nurgle is meant to be the cucle of life and death
But hes also perseverance in the face of death and defying change
As its your desire to live no matter what
copper cliff
Nurgle's cycle gives birth to new life, that's part of his whole deal
gusty fulcrum
That draws him@to you
copper cliff
Ever evolving, adapting, changing, and forming diseases and plagues. Its equally as random as Tzeentch. Except where Tzeentch's changes are magical themed Nurgle's are stinky themed.
gusty fulcrum
Nurgle is the Chaos God most directly involved with the plight of mortals, particularly Humans who suffer so acutely from a fear of death, perhaps the oldest fear of that species, or any other. While Nurgle is the god of death and decay, it is also the god of rebirth. Decay is simply one part of the cycle of life, without which no new life could grow. In the same way, Nurgle is also the god of perseverance and survival. While those who wish to spread decay and corruption are certainly amongst its followers, there are also those who wish to endure, to become resilient enough to handle the difficulties and opportunities presented by an uncaring universe. Many of those affected by Nurgle's poxes usually turn to the god in order to escape the pain and sheer despair caused by sickness and disease.
Its more about the idea of perseverance
Not changing your ways despite change around you
Endurance
copper cliff
Notice how it says he's the god of death and decay and ALSO. Not "primarily"
gusty fulcrum
They point out in games of politics nurgles followers tend to be conservatives and old fashion traditions types
While tzeentches play liberals and progressives
copper cliff
It even says without decay no new life could grow, which is part of Nurgle's whole thing, making new life grow, that life being putrid as fuck
gusty fulcrum
I guess thats theyre preferred form conflict is politcal games
gusty fulcrum
It even says without decay no new life could grow, which is part of Nurgle's who...
Yep but hey represents stagnacy as well
Hes change just not change in the ways tzeentch is
Cycles as you said
copper cliff
None of this is perseverance. Because that is a thematic aspect, not the primary point.
Destruction is not stagnancy, and Rebirth thematically often represents change in one's heart not a return to normalcy.
gusty fulcrum
Ironic considering in the tabletop chaos rpg medical knowledge is under nurgles domain
As in healing roles
If your the medic on your chaos team your a nurgle follower lol
Like it makes sense but also doesnt
Im kinda goin offa what i can remember from the chaos rpg from fanatasy flight
I got all my books in storage somewhere
copper cliff
Nurgle's whole plot with mortals is to cause them agonizing torment and death before offering them an out. Which takes the form of a spiritual and sometimes literally physical rebirth into something fundamentally different from what they were.
Usually manifesting in either a zombified husk or a dopamine stuffed meat puppet
gusty fulcrum
None of this is perseverance. Because that is a thematic aspect, not the primary...
To be fair were on lore chat so thematic counts
Cuz its not necessarily about how it plays on the table
But yes what youve said is comepletly true from a gameplay point
copper cliff
Im not talking about from a gameplay point at all lol
None of this applies to TT because TT is miniatures rolling dice to do a damage
gusty fulcrum
Well and it also ignores alotta the grander lore
copper cliff
I mean you cited the wiki and it contradicted your point.
copper cliff
You said nurgle is *more * about perseverance, when at best its an equal half but even then it would be cited more as a fundamental core of the god's domain if it was. But its not in comparison to what it actually says.
gusty fulcrum
You said nurgle is *more * about perseverance, when at best its an equal half bu...
Like i said im also goin offa my memmory of the fantasy flight rpg which is also canon
Depending on your view
Which gives broader aspects to the gods
Like it also focuses more on khornes aspect as a god of justice and combat
copper cliff
Well I don't argue that perseverance isn't an aspect but it is not the primary purpose of nurgle, especially in comparison to the fact his go to trick for turning mortals is physically breaking them with pain and plague until they accept his love
gusty fulcrum
Well I don't argue that perseverance isn't an aspect but it is not the primary p...
It plays more a role in the rpg
Cuz like i said he covers your healing stuff as well
copper cliff
I think that's Oldhammer stuff
abstract zealot
Nurgle is order born from chaos, Tzeentch is chaos born from order. For example Tzeentch sets fire to a stagnant old forest and Nurgle grows saplings from the ashes.
gusty fulcrum
Ya sorta
copper cliff
Early to mid 2000s is a long time ago in terms of canon
gusty fulcrum
But on a universal scale
And i guess in the story i saw referenced in what im remembering nurgles decides to ask tzeentch why hes basicly dicking around with setting the proverbial forest on fire
So he can start growing
Can’t remember what tzeentch gave as a response though
gusty fulcrum
Early to mid 2000s is a long time ago in terms of canon
I mean fair but we were also talking earlier anout how nothin is truly noncanon
More like not relvant to the current story/theme
Since after all theyve been bringing old stuff back out lately
Speakin of bringing back old stuff be kinda sweet if the brought the old dreads normal humans could pilot back
They could be used by both gaurd and marines back in the day
But i guess lore wise once they figured out how to makem in space marine sizes they found them better and phased the old models out likely forgetting the knowledge to build them in the process
@copper cliff i guess im more familiar with older lore
Also kinda like older lore leaves more open to the imagination in some ways
And ive always seen warhammer as a pretty interpretive setting
Since as they say everything and nothing is canon
As its generaly written from an in universe perspective and generally no one really knows the whole story
Or might be bullshitting you or just getting things wrong
And in a more practical sense allows them to skim over inconsistencies and contradictory stuff in lore an setting
And allow them to just well do what they (the authors at bl and gw)want at the moment really as long as it fall under some broad parameters
The rivalry i never really got was khorne and slaanesh
Since they always make it seem like he hates tzeentch more
At least to me
And kinda makes more sense to me
Same way id see nurgle and slaanesh being more opposed as well
gusty fulcrum
Well you can argue they all kinda represent the same things with just slight twists
Nurgle n khorne =death destruction etc
Tzeentch and slannesh=change,creation
gusty fulcrum
That's part of the fun
Indeed
I love just pondering 40k lore stuff
And just ideas related to the setting
abstract zealot
The way I see it Khorne is the personification of survival of the fittest, and embracing survival of the fittest is all about embracing hardship because hardship teaches you how to be strong. Slannesh is the personification of slavery to pleasure which is diametrically opposed to embracing hardship.
Say if you had a khornite and a slanneshite both addicted to a narcotic. The khornite would go cold turkey for the sake of becoming stronger while the slanneshite would try to take the khornite's leftover share of drugs too.
Khorne is the chaos of the withdrawals while slannesh is the chaos of the destructive spiral of needing ever more drugs
If I ever play tabletop I'm totally going chaos undivided btw, gana convert some heathens to chaos
abstract zealot
I'm ironing out my own interpretations so it might not all work
mossy mortar
none of the choas gods wouldb e an issue if it asnt'f or the barrier between warp and realspace beign weakened by psykers and warp travel
I blame the witches
burn the withces
rose thorn
WooooOoo shout out to all my witches out there!
hot kelp
WooooOoo shout out to all my witches out there!
I've been cooking flying tiger meth and I'm now a wizard
gusty fulcrum
So i guess theres some theories this new tau god might be a malal equiv
In the sense of being a god of contradiction
And sorta athiesm as the greater good is meant to be a philosophical standpoint
Cant find much on it other then the tau arnt fans of the thing
And it basicly contradicts the greater good
Even though it springs from belief in it
Just learned bout it( watching a majorkill vid on warp entities) and tried lookin it up
chrome dragon
Mfw human Tau believers manifest a warp manifestation of the greater good therefore contradicting their entire atheist philosophy
Take that you blue jellybeans
little gust
Tau have snuff all if it comes to souls.
celest dome
Who acted against the other CG due to despising the order they made in it
little gust
thats why none of them have any pyskers
chrome dragon
Tau have snuff all if it comes to souls.
So they cant be tortured in warp hell for eternity?
Shame
chrome dragon
Who acted against the other CG due to despising the order they made in it
Chaos god of chaos
odd palm
All I’m hearing is necron superiority
celest dome
Not really
Of all the Race/Species
the Necron are the one that have the most bleak future
The other have worst possible future, but they also have good possible futures
While the Necron have atm no way to get more of themselves and live
gusty fulcrum
Who acted against the other CG due to despising the order they made in it
More like he represents chaoses aspect of destruction including itself
And from what i can tell even though we have the sons of malice i cant find much of him having presence in 40k so much as fantasy
celest dome
Malal is owned by the guy who wrote him. Who left GW/BL and had a lawsuit or something against them
gusty fulcrum
I mean i guess it cpuld be there way of bringing gods of order into the setting similar to fantasy
gusty fulcrum
Malal is owned by the guy who wrote him. Who left GW/BL and had a lawsuit or som...
Ya hence why he mostly relates to some guy from a novel or comic they made
Kaleb daark or something
celest dome
correct
gusty fulcrum
Huh i guess theres at least one instance of a tau agriworld that got cut off worshipping (unknowingly) Rotigus
I guess when they got cut off they eventually started embracing the loval religion worshippin a raingod
chrome dragon
Didnt Malal get turned into Malice or something
celest dome
Not entirely, Malal never really was part of 40k
But Malal had to be buried due to legal work so they took his attributes and make 2/3 Chaos Gods in fantasy
normal grove
Why does Sanguinus always wear the spooky evil eye things that I always thought were a Chaos thing?
dusk patrol
It’s not an eye, it’s a blood drop
But they do look very similar to the eye of Horus, to the point where it’s a fun thing to check for in Sanguinius fanart
normal grove
lol that blood drop always has a line in it down the middle just like Horus' thing
every time
I thought for the longest time it was just Horus's corrupting influence... but it was only able to really just give him drip instead of anything else. Or he just liked Horus's style and wanted to match.
"Brother, behold, I am completely dripped out, like your corporal form. Our drip matches, brother."
dusk patrol
Yeah it looks like in this case it’s just drawn incorrectly unless I’m missing more context
This classic piece is the best example of the difference
It’s super easy to miss though
The Eye of Horus also tends to have yellow around the iris
normal grove
see, this is the exact image that made me think they were the same, lol, but i guess the yellow is the only real difference i can see
but i can kinda look close and see that the bottom of San's teardrops are bulbous and not eye like
slender orchid
The eye isn't a symbol of Chaos is why. It was referred to as the Eye of Terra, a symbol that one served Terra and the Emperor as his eyes and will. Horus being War master was decked out with it, made it the main symbol of the Sons of Horus.
Similar to how the Emperor's Children, since they were allowed to use the Palatine Aquila, had it plastered everywhere even during the crusade, when most SM were bare bones.
Sanguinius and some others have an eye here or there. Either because it was so associated with Horus, or because fans thought it looked like the Eye of Mordor and super evil, it just stopped showing up on "the good guys".
mossy mortar
Tau have snuff all if it comes to souls.
literally small-souled bugmen
I've always interpreted this to mean that that's why they're so obsessed with special leaders like Shadowsun. The average Tau just doesn't have the potential for greatness like their handful of leaders. That's why most have so little warp presence. Contrast this to the Imperium, where pretty much every human has the ptoential for greatness but then is jsut ground into the mud by the system of the imperium.
mossy mortar
Even Blank still have a soul, so most likely still can
I sort of assume that blanks are basically soullless psychopaths with zero inner life
I know Dan Abnett makes them cuddly and lovable but this is just because they're so convenient for plotting/gadget purposes
little gust
aren't there more bovine than insectoid?
*they
their home-planet is a literally giant plain in most regarding the few continents, few of their sept worlds share its commonality. I still regarding their crusade into the gulf, as fool hardy, any real big move from them invites the attention of the imperium and their elimination thoroughly.
barren tapir
Even Blank still have a soul, so most likely still can
No, they haven't, that is their main point, they have no connection to the warp, which is what is being called a soul
barren tapir
I sort of assume that blanks are basically soullless psychopaths with zero inner...
Soulles yes, psycopath without inner life not even slightly
mossy mortar
THey have a negative connection to the warp
mossy mortar
Soulles yes, psycopath without inner life not even slightly
They're the same thing
mossy mortar
There's never been any real rules for blanks except as lore for the Necron Pariah unit
barren tapir
It is not that hard to get
barren tapir
And i think you are completely wrong, but to each one its own
little gust
from the recollection, a known blank accompanying Ciaphes cain, doesn't show psychopathy behavior, Jorvic? sorry his name is foreign to me. but he's loyal to the imperial truth and to Ciaphes cain.
mossy mortar
Making blanks into another spy movie gadget was always the silliest part of Abnett's inquisition setting
barren tapir
Especially since we know that being resistant to warp, or immune to it, doesn't make you a psycopath
mossy mortar
from the recollection, a known blank accompanying Ciaphes cain, doesn't show psy...
Again, it's useful as a plot ocntrivance
But I think it's just too much of a temptation for writers
barren tapir
from the recollection, a known blank accompanying Ciaphes cain, doesn't show psy...
Jurgen, best aide ever, mostly because he always has some tanna ready
little gust
Jurgen, best aide ever, mostly because he always has some tanna ready
true
mossy mortar
There should be a reason people instinctively don't like them
barren tapir
There should be a reason people instinctively don't like them
There is, you didn't know?
mossy mortar
Jurgen is literally just Baldrick from Blackadder
little gust
wasn't their also another blank in the Eisnhorn books? I believe she became part of his personal company of individuals, it was ether that or die by his hand.
mossy mortar
But more helpful
barren tapir
wasn't their also another blank in the Eisnhorn books? I believe she became part...
Elizabeth bequin yes
mossy mortar
wasn't their also another blank in the Eisnhorn books? I believe she became part...
Eisenhorn and Ravenor have an entire wing of blanks
little gust
I have yet to start the books, but I hear good things
barren tapir
||And the group of blanks was the distaff||
broken zenith
mossy mortar
Yeah culexis assassins were the original mention
And they're specifically called horrible abominations
little gust
I personally don't want to see an eversore assassin in the battlefield
mossy mortar
and soulless
little gust
last thing you usually see
broken zenith
Kaleb daark or something
Yup, Malal, Kaleb Daark and Arianka are owned by the Quest of Kaleb Daark comic strip writers Alan Grant and John Wagner, they left GW around 1987-1988 leaving the last part of the comic strip God Amok unpublished, and Malal section from RoC duology had to be scrapped, leaving Tony Ackland concept arts unpublished.
Tony Ackland himself left GW around 1992 later on, taking the rights to the concept arts with him.
barren tapir
Well, eldar see pretty much everything else as abominations, now if such things stop them from the warp, since they are super connected to it, it just make such title more reasonable
Also, we have the sister of silence origin theories which are extremely intriguing and with the arrival of the LoV we can kinda see which one got more ground and which didn't
broken zenith
Alan Grant recently passed away, so it's his estate now that owns partial copyright claim to Malal, GW tried to circumvent the copyright limbo with new chaos gods like Necoho and Zuvassin of WFRP 1E Enemy Within and Malice in 40k, but it's still surprising how Hogshead got away with Malal in 1995 WFRP 1E The Dying of the Light supplement as part of Heinrich Bors fluff, and FFG in 2009 with 2E Chaos Marauders - Claws of Malal deck
barren tapir
Alan Grant recently passed away, so it's his estate now that owns partial copyri...
Maybe they are trying to erode the copyright, since that is what scared the shit out of GW and went to close up all fan made projects on youtube
They probably saw the danger of letting people freely using names since they were trying the same too
broken zenith
yup, probably
little gust
you guys know any good Eldar books? been meaning to find a good book for the dark elder
orchid acorn
GW has always been litigious, is my understanding. Probably bootyblasted from the warcraft and starcraft shenanigans as much as thing
broken zenith
Skrag used to be Malal worshipping Ogre in 2E 1986 for example before getting rebooted to the Prophet of the Great Maw in 2005 6E Ogre Kingdoms army debut
broken zenith
This classic piece is the best example of the difference
Adrian Smith is absolute legend
celest dome
No, they haven't, that is their main point, they have no connection to the warp,...
There are degrees to Blankness, most still have souls, if not a lot
unique berry
Black rage incoming
broken zenith
Horus? HORUS!
copper cliff
I wonder if anyone's told a blood angel they themselves are horus and then they proceed to commit die
unique berry
Death Company incoming
barren tapir
There are degrees to Blankness, most still have souls, if not a lot
No, that was in the past when GW didn't knew what to do, they were on the same scale of psykers, which was dumb... You can have different level of connection to the warp, but you cannot have different level of absence from it
celest dome
So are Cullexus not more separated from the Warp ?
Where some Blank are supposed to be untouchable and have some sort of AoE while other not
barren tapir
No, they have the tech that help them though
barren tapir
Where some Blank are supposed to be untouchable and have some sort of AoE while ...
Yeah, that was when we had two types of the gene, one dominant would be a blank, the recessive one would be a untouchable, which had less effect... It was when it was hinted that the necron engineered it in mankind, and the source of necron pariah
celest dome
But even then. Some have AoE, it wouldn't be that weird if Some had bigger Denial area than others
And not all Blank have the Pariah gene iirc
dusk patrol
Some are more powerful blanks than others but it’s not really clear why and their abilities aren’t consistent
The Sister of Silence can do a lot of weird stuff with their blankness, and obviously the Culexus are able to amplify it and tend to be very powerful blanks by default
celest dome
That's the thing I remember too
barren tapir
And not all Blank have the Pariah gene iirc
They all have it, if you don't have it you simply are not a blank... That is if it is a natural state, we know that Grey Knights can become blanks, and we also know about the solitaires
SoS are said to be able to control their aura yes, via some training and some space magic
Culexus as said before use tech to focus such aura
There are plenty of stories about how different blanks affected the warp in different ways, but to use such stories as indication that there are different level of blankness hold no ground, since there can be no different level of no connection to the warp, if you are even slightly connected to it you are not a blank, simple as that
gusty fulcrum
No, that was in the past when GW didn't knew what to do, they were on the same s...
Far as i can tell they still have varying types of blank
barren tapir
Each living being is connected to the warp btw, some more than others and can use psychic powers, but a generic human even if not be able to perform psychich sheanigans is still connected
celest dome
So they retconned the level of Blank ?
gusty fulcrum
Maybe not using the chart anymore
barren tapir
So they retconned the level of Blank ?
Not really retconnected, more defined i would say
gusty fulcrum
But they still seem to have different variations of blanks
celest dome
So any Blank can become a Cullexus
broken zenith
Eisenhorn had his untouchables wear devices so that they may not interrupt the psykers
barren tapir
Far as i can tell they still have varying types of blank
Eh, not really, there might be some difference in how such aura is represented though, like some blanks cannot be seen by people, but other instead attract attention because of such aura
barren tapir
So any Blank can become a Cullexus
Pretty much yes, but that is just the basic requisite, there are psychological and physical ones too, and that is why culexus are the most rare assassins, there are a lot of things that need to be right
broken zenith
The Inquisition has Null-Ships to investigate the Eye of Terror too, that's how they classified some of the Daemon Worlds such as Ichoria and Uolesh.
barren tapir
Remember also that both SoS and culexus are said to choose only the best blank they can, now, unless culexus are only men then there is a conflict between them if there were really better blanks, from a genetic standpoint
barren tapir
Well, too bad than it is SoS that collect them then
dusk patrol
But it’s a lot more than just being a blank
celest dome
I very much preferred when it was with a scale it make more sense when not all Blank are the same ability level
dusk patrol
Well, too bad than it is SoS that collect them then
No the Culexus just take them if they get to them
gusty fulcrum
Eh, not really, there might be some difference in how such aura is represented t...
Ya i suppose thats kinda what i mean cuz they still treat culluxes and siters ina league of thier own far as i can tell
dusk patrol
Culexus don’t give a fuck about what the SoS want, and vice versa
barren tapir
Culexus don't gather blanks, they receive them
dusk patrol
It’s first come first serve
gusty fulcrum
Meant more like theyre relative ability as blanks
barren tapir
Blanks are collected by the black ships
celest dome
Don't the SoS cart of the male to the Cullexus
gusty fulcrum
Culuxes and sisters are still treated as leagues of thier own
dusk patrol
They do collect some, and also do weird stuff
gusty fulcrum
Is what i meant
dusk patrol
Like, there’s an issue with powerful enough blanks not surviving to childbirth because the mothers body rejects it
And it miscarries
gusty fulcrum
Like, there’s an issue with powerful enough blanks not surviving to childbirth b...
Or just people reject it and abandon it
dusk patrol
So they find those and remove it and put it in a test tube
Pariah Fetuses are also used for stuff because of course they are
barren tapir
So they find those and remove it and put it in a test tube
How... Because that would require some percognition level that not even the emperor have
gusty fulcrum
Or they get purged as witches and mutants during childhood
Cuzza the aura
Starts kinda drovin people crazy
barren tapir
Pariah Fetuses are also used for stuff because of course they are
The emperor prohibited the research into the pariah gene
dusk patrol
How... Because that would require some percognition level that not even the empe...
How do they find any of these people? They have contacts and shit across the galaxy.
dusk patrol
The emperor prohibited the research into the pariah gene
Yes and yet Spear still existed
Or Thorn or whatever his name was
gusty fulcrum
We do know with latest sister lore most blanks may descend from them
Some kinda diaspora
dusk patrol
Sisters were also just neglected as hell until very recently
barren tapir
How do they find any of these people? They have contacts and shit across the gal...
Yeah, that wouldn't work, blanks are find because they end in trouble and then put in a cell since no one want to deal with them, but miscarriages? Nah, no one would talk about that
dusk patrol
Most very severely underequip and cut off
gusty fulcrum
Yeah, that wouldn't work, blanks are find because they end in trouble and then p...
Ya i mean they are pretty noticeable
barren tapir
Yes and yet Spear still existed
Ah, yes, the black pariah, the one created by traitors to kill the emperor, the OC of one of the authors
gusty fulcrum
Even if you dont know what your dealin with
dusk patrol
Yeah, that wouldn't work, blanks are find because they end in trouble and then p...
Well obviously it does since they do this
broken zenith
dusk patrol
Ah, yes, the black pariah, the one created by traitors to kill the emperor, the ...
Which was an experiment by the Culexus temple
gusty fulcrum
So how do their pew pew hats work now
barren tapir
Ya i mean they are pretty noticeable
When they grow up yes, but if they are killed young not so easy to find
gusty fulcrum
Are they still based on necron tech or whatever?
gusty fulcrum
Thats the culuxes lore im more familair with
dusk patrol
The Pariah Necron thing unfortunately hasn’t been a thing for a minute in lore
gusty fulcrum
I know its probly been retconned with paraihs
dusk patrol
Which is a shame because I liked it
gusty fulcrum
Just havent seen much that ive noticed
So are theyre hats just some kinda imperial warptech now?
dusk patrol
Oh you mean the Blackstone stuff?
celest dome
The Pariah Necron thing unfortunately hasn’t been a thing for a minute in lore
Well Blank gas been saying the other way
broken zenith
The Pariah Necron thing unfortunately hasn’t been a thing for a minute in lore
7E Necrons dex still hinted at it that Illuminor Szeras is capturing and experimenting on the Culexus Assassins.
it's only a matter of time before the Pariahs return
celest dome
And I though some were, but not all
dusk patrol
Maybe, we’ll have to see
gusty fulcrum
So how do culuxes helmets work now?
If they arnt implied necron tech
Just some imperial warptech?
dusk patrol
And I though some were, but not all
From what I understand it has been retconned for now in lore
broken zenith
So how do culuxes helmets work now?
dusk patrol
So how do culuxes helmets work now?
Not super clear tbh
It just works kinda like a lot of stuff
barren tapir
They have always been imperial tech, the necron part was the pariah gene, which was hinted to be a weapon engineered by necrons into mankind to fight eldar
dusk patrol
The best you’re gonna get is “it amplifies it”
broken zenith
Yup, the pariah gene is speculated to be Necrontyr genetic tempering in-universe.
gusty fulcrum
Not super clear tbh
Ya was gonna say that doesnt add much just says how ots suppose to work
Not how they designed it or came across the tech
gusty fulcrum
Old lore sorta hinted necrons or some other xeno tech
broken zenith
Animus Speculum is basically either muffling or focusing the effects of the pariah gene
depending on the choice of the Assassin
dusk patrol
It just does what it does
gusty fulcrum
And it worked like a focusing lens
gusty fulcrum
And they can adjust the beams intensity
Or turn it off to spread it as an aura again
dusk patrol
But then you have stuff like sisters of silence being able to focus their blank aura into their swords and attacks and stuff and target enemies
gusty fulcrum
Blanks are neat but not well written out
dusk patrol
I can even make these weird flames appear on their blades so I don’t know in my opinion it’s one of those things which game Workshop is still adding onto in building in law and it will probably change significantly over the next few years
A lot has changed with them over the years since they were first introduced
gusty fulcrum
Well ya they are probably trying to make stuff less obvious spoofs parodies and nods to other universes
Especially sonce theyve been on thier hogh horse about copyright again
And know anyone could throw it back in thier face if they really wanted to
nocturne jetty
Darktide is gonna be similar to Vermintide 2?
dusk patrol
I mean their company they have to be able to control the rights to their products how businesses work
nocturne jetty
(Only with guns)
dusk patrol
Darktide is gonna be similar to Vermintide 2?
Not really sure this is the place to be asking that question
storm jungle
Darktide is going to be a battle royale
dusk patrol
But yes
storm jungle
you can find more info at #❓faq-for-convicts
dusk patrol
Darktide is a hero shooter me to compete with the release of overwatch 2
celest dome
Somewhat, but back to General for this kind of talk
gusty fulcrum
Ya were nerdin up some lore here
dusk patrol
Unfortunately obese megalodon is really bad at making hero shooters and so they just ended up making another vermin tide game by accident
nocturne jetty
Sad no Oversor Assasin
nocturne jetty
Sad no Oversor Assasin
:)))))
gusty fulcrum
Unfortunately obese megalodon is really bad at making hero shooters and so they ...
I mean thats not necessarily a bad thing
celest dome
Sad no Oversor Assasin
To high quality/ rarity
dusk patrol
And Eversor Assassin would probably be be able to tear through the missions we do in the game four times the speed by himself without stopping and never breaking a sweat
celest dome
Do the drug they're on let them sweat ? Or make them sweat
dusk patrol
They would be OP for a space marine game even let alone one about relatively normal people fighting tides of enemies
dusk patrol
Although that being said it would be great if they referenced or maybe if we even got to see one been called in to deal with one of them any threats in the city at some point
celest dome
I don't think any of the Assassins would really work in a multiplayer game.
But as a Single player one
Maybe
storm jungle
An Eversor is basically a VT2 Plague Rat with faster animation cycles and speed
dusk patrol
I think you could make a game around but it would have to be a lot more movement based in the enemies you would have to be fighting would have to be a lot crazier than what we deal with
An Assassin Clade game with co op or something could be really fun
tight sigil
Splinter cell but officio assassinorum
unique berry
Cheese
celest dome
The prob would be that they are so different from each other that it would be difficult to play together
Like a Calidus would be great for sneak game
But an Eversor not so much
dusk patrol
Maybe but they could have similar base abilities, but they branch out differently.
celest dome
True
dusk patrol
Like the Vindicare would sit back from a distance and watch over the Callidus
celest dome
Maybe a game like Hunt Showdown
dusk patrol
Culexus deals with psykers while Eversor chews through trash and stuff fast
celest dome
4 Assassins against a very strong monster (Either Tyr or that other Assassin)
dusk patrol
Venemus wears its one piece and dad bod in the background to scare enemies away
celest dome
What?
celest dome
Its not that much of a dadbod
dusk patrol
It’s just a very awkward model
But in seriousness they’d obviously have some poisoning shit
celest dome
What about the Hacker one
celest dome
Maybe using servitors and familiar drones
celest dome
Damn now I really want an Evolve game but we are Assassins
gusty fulcrum
Id be down for some ratlings
Love abhumans
Maybe a redemptionist class for the preists
dusk patrol
Daily “Ratling who is cooler than you’ll ever be” post
gusty fulcrum
And he can cook
dusk patrol
Tonight’s dish? Power pack supreme!
celest dome
Maybe a redemptionist class for the preists
For Zealot? Getting fire damage skills
dusk patrol
My thing with Ratlings as much as I want them is I’m not sure if they could make three classes out of them
celest dome
Tonight’s dish? Power pack supreme!
Can we get Krak Grenades as a side dish
gusty fulcrum
My thing with Ratlings as much as I want them is I’m not sure if they could make...
I can think of a few
celest dome
Ratling aren't really fit due to melee damage
barren tapir
Here comes a nice blank!
On the left
Oh, wait, you went past that... Well, it is still a nice image anyway
gusty fulcrum
Ratling aren't really fit due to melee damage
Eh never got to use my warhammer rpg books for game but i wouldn’t underestimate what a ratling can do with a knofe
Same with the new rpg
The have a stealthy ogryn as a player character example
He leanred to be stealthy so he could sneak up on and tickle his sisters lol
dusk patrol
I can think of a few
Yeah I think they definitely could if needed
Maybe an assassin one or something
Or more sneaky one
gusty fulcrum
Sabatour for one
Perhaps a quartermaster themed class
In the sense it adds various bonuses while in cohesion
I mean either way theyed by a very stealth and ranged oriented character
So the classes would focus around different combos of that
Honestly im kinda surprised there isnt a ratling demo/sabatour unit on the tabletop
Seems like another good skillset with thier knack for sneaking
dusk patrol
Yeah I think they could do something similar to the Ranger veteran which supplies the team with buffs and stuff
gusty fulcrum
I men if they can think of 4 classes for ogryns im sure htye could ratlins an squats
Im kinda hopin one is bonehead
or at least we get a bonehead skin/head peice
but ya a squad of ogryns and ratlings sounds like alotta fun to me
nightmare time for commisars no doubt:P
crisp heath
Charonite need specific upgrades which are rare
You mean cybernetics and combat drugs?
celest dome
Or at least out of the Solar system
Cybernetic, no idea what sort of Chems they have
dusk patrol
Charonite I think would be a knockoff for 40k
There’s concept art which has the backpack for it, I don’t know how likely it is but it’s possible imo
But it wouldn’t be a true Charonite from 30k
They’re way bigger
It’s not perfect since they’re models of course but this is a rough comparison
gusty fulcrum
You mean cybernetics and combat drugs?
Yes and no the cybernetics are based on xeno tech or something else shady
Its the augmentations that make them illegal
dusk patrol
fair current
dusk patrol
I hope so too
gusty fulcrum
I wonder if thats a heavy flamer the ogryn is wielding
gray mulch
either that or a Multi-Laser
dusk patrol
Could be a lot of things
gray mulch
tbf, Ogryn aren't so unintelligent that they're not functional people, they're just, on average, about as smart as an unintelligent human and they're usually even more poorly educated than your average imperial citizen
Though admittedly this does vary some by source
dusk patrol
The ones we have in game are definitely above average
Yeah I’m not sure if they’ll do it, but maybe it’ll be some knockoff variant
mossy mortar
Yeah at one point they said a bone 'ead is as smart as an 8 year old lol
dusk patrol
Nork is the smartest Ogryn ever, and he can only count to four
As well as sign his name with an N
mossy mortar
tall hinge
tbf, Ogryn aren't so unintelligent that they're not functional people, they're j...
That's the augmented ones. As Ox just shared in that excerpt.
dusk patrol
I’m thinking they’d play a bit like the Slayer from VT
mossy mortar
Maybe 8 year olds are really smart in the future
tall hinge
The unaltered natural ones are very limited in comprehensive capacity.
gray mulch
See, i would argue that that contridicts itself, because have you ever met an 8 year old? they have 0 understanding of strategy or tactics
tall hinge
Normal Ogryn don't either, beyond to smash things that they are pointed at.
dusk patrol
Ogryns are mostly instinct in combat
gray mulch
Well yeah, but that seems to want to say that the implants add equivalent understanding, but the example they give has 0 understanding so what do the implants add?
tall hinge
And the ogryn in game is referenced as indeed having the bone augmentation so that's the explanation for his advanced player-induced behavior.
Well the implant is only given to the exceptionally smart (relative to the rest of the ogryn population) to enhance that additional level of intellect that they already possess.
So they already have above average comprehension than a regular ogryn, and it's further advanced by the enhancement.
dusk patrol
They have good combat instincts which make them effective protectors and fighters but they’re not actually good at the thinky stuff beyond that
gray mulch
Yeah, but it apperently raises them from nothing to also nothing so it's contridicting itself because if I start at 0 and end at 0 I have not raised any numbers
dusk patrol
Nork is a complete genius by Ogryn standards, with the best schooling they could give him, and he’s been around some of the biggest military geniuses of the Imperium for years, and he’s still completely incapable of understanding it
tall hinge
It's not ending at 0, they go from only being able to stay put and absorb shots or charge and smash whatever they are pointed at to being able to comprehend basic strategy such as capturing an objective, participating in (not leading, mind you) a flanking maneuver, etc.
dusk patrol
Beyond orders
tall hinge
They go from 2gb of ram to 4
dusk patrol
It’s also stuff like the grenade gauntlets.
Which are more complex to fire so only Bon’eads get them
gray mulch
I would agree with you that yes, that is how it would have to work, but that is not what the source given says
broken zenith
"Yus, surr!" came the loud and snappy response as Nork plunged into the Chimera, remembered he had forgotten to salute, came back, saluted twice for good measure, and busied himself searching for the vehicle's medical supply chest."
Nork is so cute
tall hinge
That excerpt is not the only source of ogryn information in the history of 40k, and contradicts further exceptions to the rule such as the aforementioned Nork. Not the first time GW has contradicted itself, not the last.
broken zenith
Sadly, GW sometimes hires writers that do not care about previously established fluff and roll with their own instead.
gray mulch
Yeah, i'm mostly aruging that source is bad because it literally contradicts itself in the same sentence
broken zenith
cough cough Matt Ward cough
dusk patrol
I feel like Ogryn intelligence is pretty consistent tbh, they’re not book smart but the implant and smarter Ogryns are able to do more complex tasks
The big exception being the Psyker female Ogryn
Which is a massive outlier
Even within the fiction
tall hinge
Much like regular humans, there's a variety of intelligence levels on the scale, Ogryn's scale is just consistently below that of the regular human scale.
storm jungle
Ogryn are more or so basically children yeah
their dumbness is just played up for comedy at times
Its why im glad the game portrays them as such
tall hinge
Same
storm jungle
you wouldnt believe the amount of people here pre-release that just wanted them to act like
they are braindead
tall hinge
It's nice to actually have one where we can see them in the setting and actually take them seriously for a fair amount of time.
gray mulch
Tbf, half the time GW seems to think that they just sit there and drool until prodded to do something by someone
dusk patrol
Yeah the ones we have in game are the perfect mix for me
tall hinge
Well not think that's what they do, they write them that way.
dusk patrol
They definitely all act like Bon’eads even if they’re not all supposed to be or not, but that works for me too
And like, they can sit and drool and act like children but also have more adult intelligence in other areas
tall hinge
And again, for all intents and purposes we are still to believe that the regular ogryn are like that. The one in game is a bone 'ead and likely with significantly higher intelligence along the likeness of Nork.
dusk patrol
The Ogryns for this game are fighters with experience in that
tiny raven
dusk patrol
They’re good at that, they’re not gonna be super smart or knowledgeable beyond that.
The guard is their life.
Or was
broken zenith
<a:jammin:878897175931809792>
tall hinge
hacks a machine interrogator skull 
gray mulch
Yeah, i like the ones we have ingame, they're not smart, but they are actual people, unlike how GW writes them a lot of the time
tall hinge
We also have to take into account the ludonarrative dissonance of which the gameplay has to permit, as with many games in which power scale is very present in the lore. I.E. you can pull off tactics well beyond the capabilities of even a bone 'eads intellect, a high IQ play for lack of a better term, because you the player are ideally a fair bit smarter than an ogryn actually is.
The Inquisitors in Matyr mow down chaos marines in the hundreds due to gameplay, in the lore they would not be doing such, etc etc
broken zenith
I don't see problem with DT Ogryn honestly
tired umbra
The Bully funnily enough seems like the smartest of the options in a way. There's a certain kind of menace to him that isn't just "I like to hit things."
tall hinge
Me either, I love how they've portrayed him. I was referring to player input, not the game's presentation of the ogryn itself.
The Bully is my personality of choice as well haha
broken zenith
ikr 😄
dusk patrol
I liked all three
tall hinge
I appreciate that there is multiple, makes it less redundant when I have another Ogryn in the group and invites even more unique dialogue to hear on repeat gameplay. That goes for all the classes though.
dusk patrol
Probably gonna go with the Bodyguard just because Toby Longworth
storm jungle
It's nice to actually have one where we can see them in the setting and actually...
Its kinda why I didnt go with the "yes suh" ogryn
Its funny for the first hour but then just turns into an average grimdank subreddit comment section
Bodyguard is the best
dusk patrol
Space Russian Ogryn works
tall hinge
To me the Bully still feels the most natural, especially because he does still have quite fine comments to make that aren't just "me dumb", it's simply the tone of his voice that is more reminiscent of the classic ogryn that I enjoy, while having smarter things to say with said voice than we're used to seeing.
storm jungle
Yeah I agree
tall hinge
I think Bodyguard is the other one I like, the one I am the most indifferent on if not a little less than happy with is the one that sounds like Bardin.
Funny lines, but just sounds like a regular guy to me and not a 10 ft tall giant.
snow mantle
I liked my Bodyguard voice. Bully sounds great but just wasn't what I was going for myself.
fierce pendant
you wouldnt **believe** the amount of people here pre-release that just wanted t...
I too would like an ogryn to be a literal drooling brick wall, in regards to rich and great interactions prepared by wh40k writers such as Dan Abnett
Just imagine the grunt-only banter, it would have so much delivery and hard work for the VA's to properly pull off.
storm jungle
dusk patrol
Unironically, probably would choose to be an Ogryn if I had to in 40k
You’re tough as hell, too dumb to realize how bad you have it, simple life
Get treated well enough tbh since you’re useful
Can’t get bored
steady niche
Yeah but the claustrophobia of all small spaces including your own drop transports would suck
dusk patrol
I already get that in current society
It would suck but overall I think the benefits outweighs the costs
broken zenith
Savlar Ogryns get nitro-chem inhalers, just saying :3
broken zenith
👌
gusty fulcrum
Unironically, probably would choose to be an Ogryn if I had to in 40k
ogryn ork or maybe ratlin
tawdry escarp
Is that Bryan Cranston?
dusk patrol
Yea
gusty fulcrum
You’re tough as hell, too dumb to realize how bad you have it, simple life
Not sure if its to dumb to know so much as they are so tough and thier homeworlds to crappy (like catachan) they dont care
Cuz anything is gonna seem pretty swell by comparison
Especially when you get to do what you do best and all these little dudes praise you for it
dusk patrol
Little column a, little column b
Its similar to Orks
They don't feel pain the same way
Or fear, as easily at least.
broken zenith
RT had Ogryn mercenaries for the Orks, good times
gusty fulcrum
Sometimes i wonder if even though they get were not kids ogryns view normal humans as childlike and so partly why they are so protective of thier litte uns
Which makes me wonder if theyre pretty decent parents all things considered
final spruce
Sometimes i wonder if even though they get were not kids ogryns view normal huma...
There are kid ogryns, which is also why ogryns protect humans, they see them as small and weak baby ogryns, kind of like how our hormones tend to make us protect babies
gusty fulcrum
As i always find i interesting that though they cone from a hyper violent background they seem pretty eager to buddy up to little dudes they can pancake in a second
gusty fulcrum
There are kid ogryns, which is also why ogryns protect humans, they see them as ...
Thats what i was just asking just worded as an answer XD
final spruce
Guess I answered your question more or less then
gusty fulcrum
Lol
unborn gust
I just realized the legion of the damned being the Fire Hawks makes so much sense cause a fire hawk is obviously a Phoenix
cerulean wagon
storm jungle
plush mason
the emperor's flagship was said to effect the tides and gravity of a world if it got to close
so it would have to have been literally the size of a large moon
broken zenith
I'd love to see BFG return
solemn cargo
That's no moon
arctic talon
The phalanx is bigger then the size of a small moon, whatever the fuck that means
snow furnace
The Phalanx is the size of a large moon the size of a small moon.
storm jungle
The biggest Imperial ship in 40k is like 14km long with it being an Ark Mechanicus or a Gloriana with 21km, they arent too ridiculously massive, theres just way too many classes
prisma lark
depends, do you consider the Necron World Engines "ships" or not?
tired umbra
Wasn't E Money's ship fucking massive?
storm jungle
the emperor's flagship was said to effect the tides and gravity of a world if it...
Yeah Nameless says it here
copper cliff
So if a big car is dick compensation.
How small is the emperor's dick?
celest dome
That's heresy talk
But we know that the Emp struck a deal with Slaanesh. So maybe he asked for something there too
barren tapir
Why you have to state something so cursed?