hivescum-class

[mighty belfry]

Would I call it that?

With those two exceptions in particular. Pretty much it's only those two (dueling sword and tac axe) that don't see too much benefit unless you are stacking attack speed like mad

It's really weird.

Also, I dunno if I'd say mk3 is higher skill ceiling necessarily but more of a preference thing

I just like that I don't have to compromise my stamina for good single target dps while the strongest attack on mk6 is the push attack so you're naturally doing that a lot.

But the horde clear patterns aren't as clear cut on mk3

[broken garnet]

i like melee weapons with a bit of combo pizazz

[mighty belfry]

Or rather they are and the actual angling of the attacks are just tricky to get used to for hordes since they're not very wide

That's okay though since HV will do so much heavy lifting anyway

[broken garnet]

ah, idk what hv is unfortunately lol

[mighty belfry]

Hyperviolence

Arguably one of the best nodes on Scum's tree.

[crimson moss]

https://tenor.com/view/drax-drax-stabbing-guardians-of-the-galaxy-gif-1254813861695924903

baby hivescum coming out of their mother

[broken garnet]

bahahaha

[marble seal]

I think the tox= -30% monster damage node is underrated

Have u tried

[mighty belfry]

I've... been considering it but I'm pressed for points. I could just take off Channeled Aggression but I like nuking maulers

[marble seal]

Think about all the cspawn chip it saves team from….

[mighty belfry]

...You know what that did actually make us wipe in the last run I did

Along with five bombers that invoked a piece of Tom Brady's spirit

[marble seal]

Yeah when everyone is in a corner getting molested by cspawn + bulwarks + captain shield overlapping it all blocking hits

[mighty belfry]

Alright why the hell not?

[ancient basin]

then the crusher rolls up an I pull out the hip fire revolver

[flat mist]

Wait are you saying there is less raw dps benefit with those two weapons?!

[mighty belfry]

I'm saying a small increase to those weapons in particular don't net much gain from smaller increases in attack speed.

[ancient basin]

the moves that those two weapons use for massive dps do not scale as well with attack speed

so your attack animation is faster, but you have to do a block push first to get to the attack animation that is boosted by your speed buff

and the dueling sword is mostly power attacks, which I dont think power attack charge time is boosted by attack speed

something like that is what I am guessing he is pointing out

[flat mist]

Right so just less benefit bc pushing and thrusting?

[mighty belfry]

Pretty much.

[ancient basin]

yeah, you are not gaining max benefit from your attack speed unless you are stacking it as high as you can

and even then it would be marginal

[flat mist]

It should still scale linearly shouldnt it?

Even if only part of the combo is benefitting from attack speed

[ancient basin]

yes but what we are saying is that the time you are putting into the block shove and the charge up before the attack is what is limiting your output, not the raw animation speed of the attack that follows

so you block push and it takes 1 second, but your attack also takes 1 second after. adding 20% attack speed makes the attack .80 seconds, but the push is still 1 second

see what I mean

in this case though, its more like the block is 1.2 seconds and the attack is .3 seconds, so 20% attack speed buff would make the .3 second attack frame go down to .25 ish

[mighty belfry]

For vet, honestly I tend not to use Trench for both those weapons.

Well, when I used the dueling sword at one point in my life.

[ancient basin]

I just like attack speed, so I take all I can get

the extra stamina on scum means I can do silly parry spam things to bosses

and clutch rez more easily

[mighty belfry]

dclaw w

Also, funny thing. Having too much attack speed can make the single target chain harder to do on mk7 dclaw

[marble seal]

I’m blocking u

[flat mist]

Wait wouldn't you get diminishing returns for more attack speed, eg, if it's 0.5s for push and 0.5s for attack, 10% attack speed would mean 1.047 attacks per second and 50% attack speed would equal 1.2 attacks per second

[ancient basin]

I dont think you can get over 30%, and thats if you are really investing everything you got iirc

pretty sure I am at 23% ish

been a minute since i checked

thats before rampage though I guess

and I dont pop my attack speed stim with my rampage at the same time

[tranquil fjord]

i thought attack speed buffs were additive

[mighty belfry]

They do have diminishing returns yeah.

[flat mist]

I love maths

I realised yesterday that long lasting stimms gives the exact same benefit to stimm uptime as 25% cd reductiom from sample collector

[mighty belfry]

Also tbh I'm feeling no one else but psyker should be running dueling sword at this point lmfao

It's so mid now.

[marble seal]

Every single lobby is running inferno so no one notices the lack of cleave much

[flat mist]

If you're not running aoe tox LLS feels like its probably doing more for stimm uptime than SC

[marble seal]

Even if I host my own and invite like a zealot they’ll immediately switch to inferno staff

[mighty belfry]

It's not even the lack of cleave. The damage does actually feel a little rough cuz of the finesse changes

[marble seal]

Really?

[mighty belfry]

And uncanny not forcing your flak ADMs, is a genuinely noticeable difference

[marble seal]

That’s funny

[mighty belfry]

It feels bad.

[marble seal]

Most ppl not gonna change tho until someone makes a YouTube video about it

[mighty belfry]

Like yeah I guess it's still got the safe mobile single target down.

But, that's it.

[vast compass]

does Hive Scum get bonus movement speed on heavies?

similar to the Combat Blade

[trim wind]

weapon based not class

[vast compass]

whoops I forgot ot include Shiv in that message

I meant on his shivs, my bad

[flat mist]

Nah no heavy movement bonus like knife

[vast compass]

Gotcha, thank you

[low harbor]

Yes. Because it’s a timescale buff

With that said a lot of the time attack speed is taken for timing

If u go like 50-60% on zealot then yea a lot of it probably is not that relevant

It’s the same calculation as revive speed, reload speed and swap speed (which are also diminishing returns)

[pine steppe]

Hive scum name recommendations?

[low harbor]

Goon

[deft ibex]

John garbage

Steven trash bag

[modest sphinx]

john drug addict

junior crack

martha cocaine (if female)

[broken garnet]

ctf two-fort

[flat lotus]

@mystic ginkgo

scum has some very solid survivability talents

[mystic ginkgo]

Ohhhh

[ancient basin]

moonwalk crouch slide all over them

[mellow bobcat]

I haven't really played since Arbi release. Picked up Hive Scum on a discount. And apparently NeedlePistolis one of the most OP things in the game? yea it's nice against Ogryns and Monstrosities, but I don't see how it's so OP? Am I missing something?

Also do auto-dodges like Desperado or Vulture's Dodge trigger stuff that has "on successful dodge" condition like Precognition?

[mighty belfry]

Very sustainable, consistent DPS with absolutely no investment needed.

[mellow bobcat]

More conventional ranged weapons feel a lot better at taking out stuff that's not Monstrosity. Maybe that's because I didn't get back to Havoc yet?

[bronze glade]

its just a weapon that works against everything while needing exactly 0 investment to function

[worldly girder]

would this tree still be valid with shiv + needle gun

also is frenzy bad? I don't see a lot of people talking about recommending or seemingly using it

[flat mist]

One shot from the needle pistol kills literally everything with less health than a mauler

Its super nutty

[mellow bobcat]

I mean yea, but just shooting them kills them just as fast in my experience

While also doing so instantly, without having for DoT to kill them, potentially giving heretics an opportunity to do some damage before they die

[flat mist]

But it generally requires more time investment

And you dont have the insane boss damage potential of being able to unload a clip for full stacks and then start meleeing

[mighty belfry]

yea

[worldly girder]

thanks

[fallow sentinel]

bro

i just dodged off a ledge in hab dreyko and ended up in the area before the airlock?

[main trellis]

Its rare but possible

Sadly there are only 2 ways to fix that;

1. Die
2. Quit & reconnect

[shut creek]

What's a good melee weapon to pair with the dual pistols? I've been enjoying the crowbar but curious what people who actually know the game think

[gray fable]

mk1 shivs

[main trellis]

Its a sidearm; treat it as such
Crit build will work for it tho cause it has nice crit synergy

[zenith fern]

shivs, knife, taxe

now that i think about it, i am surprised scum doesnt have shovel lmao

[main trellis]

Dclaw too

[zenith fern]

i know it is vet exclusive

but would be funny asf using shovel for scum

[main trellis]

Cause it looks too militaristic… maybe

And also cause it has hammerblow

And other stagger blessings

It would be OP

[zenith fern]

Good

Stagger is everything

[main trellis]

Shhh
Don’t say it outloud or bozos who worship ‚Best CC is to kill the enemy’ dogma will gather & lynch you

[astral canyon]

How about you dogma balls

[worldly girder]

do i just spam low viscosity cartel stimms for this penance

[astral canyon]

Just dont use the 4 stack subnode

Its really easy to mantain max stacks even with a maxed out stimm

[worldly girder]

ok i might be misunderstanding the chem dependence description

[astral canyon]

Wdym

[worldly girder]

i didn't think the stack decay would refresh the cooldown with a new stimm activation

[rough peak]

It would be kinda stupid if it didn't

[tropic bough]

All of the descriptions in this game need a mod to be able to understand so don’t feel too bad.

[rough peak]

Fatshark descriptions 101: It probably doesn't do what it says

[worldly girder]

me learning what wildfire actually does earlier... as a (not good) psyker main

[main trellis]

Atleast Kuli & his guides are a blessing for everyone to read

[muted pivot]

At least now a Soulblaze build is basically forced through it anyway so you don't have to actually think about if it's worth it or not lol

[worldly girder]

i mean you can skip it for empyric shock if that's more your flavor

[steel kite]

just sit afk near the start of a mission with a ability cooldown on stims if you don't wanna do it lol

you'll get it done pretty fast

[tardy jackal]

hey so im recently coming back from a long time of not playing and even then when i was playing i didnt realy play much other than Psyker
was wondering on Hivescum ... what exactly is a good solid build for them? i like the IDEA of desperado and Rampage but i have 0 aoe to deal with hordes and such so im not sure what im doing in terms of building or even playing

[astral canyon]

you deal with hordes with your weapons

you dont need aoe

[limber cradle]

If you run Desp you can mag dump hordes

If you run Ramp you can blender them

[gray fable]

"aoe" in darktide lmao

[limber cradle]

Hey

Rocket exists

[tardy jackal]

ig im missing gear and nodes my scums lvl 20 rn

im using the dual pistols and the 14 mag size is drving me nuts

[limber cradle]

Yeah, I would assume you're missing stuff

[limber cradle]

They're very much a secondary weapon

They're best used as a back up for melee

[tardy jackal]

AH I guess dual auto pistols is better for desperado?

[limber cradle]

Yes

[tardy jackal]

tyty

[limber cradle]

No problem lol

[gray fable]

i find stubpistols much better than uzis

much much better

[limber cradle]

I prefer stubs

But I don't run Desp

[tardy jackal]

for desperado? ok ill try em out

[gray fable]

for desperado

a bit worse for hordes but againts elites much better

[tardy jackal]

is gameslanter a good place to get builds?

[astral canyon]

no

[tardy jackal]

oof lmao what would be a good spot to get some builds aside asking here lol

[limber cradle]

Not unless you know who to look for by name

[tardy jackal]

do you mean the quickdraw stub pistols or dual? im guessing quick

[gray fable]

dual

if they're not named stubpistols im sorry

[tardy jackal]

ah cuz i love those things but the issue is small mag size drives me nuts when my desperado is off cd

[gray fable]

i know right

i take cartel stimm on full ability cd tho

for desperado build

[tardy jackal]

oh thats actually a good idea ill try that out ty

[livid raven]

ain't no way stub pistols are better than uzis

[tardy jackal]

ngl i am considering trying a melee rampage build just need to find a solid build to follow

[livid raven]

try combat axe adrenaline

[tardy jackal]

ooh yeah ok ill check that out once i try the knife ty

[prime vigil]

Does enhanced desperado count as dodging for the desperado perk on weapons?

[astral canyon]

Yes except for gunners and reapers

[prime vigil]

Huh, why are their bullets different

[wind egret]

Stimm supply now copies your stim, but only if it is on cooldown? Otherwise it will consume it instead of copying... Strange, why have it work this way?

[astral canyon]

Cause every dodge would count as like 50

[astral canyon]

Stimm supply applying the effects of the stimm while its on cooldown is a bug

[wind egret]

So not intentional? So strange. Why even use the word "copy" if they intend for it to consume it... Tzeentch created this ability.

[gray fable]

y know... uzis are also very good

[tardy jackal]

yeah rn running chain axe with uzis

[gray fable]

i just put reloading speed on kill blessing on uzis and it rocks

[mighty belfry]

I mean, youtubers I guess but youtubers aren't known for having the greatest builds either

[tardy jackal]

yeah lol

[tardy jackal]

i wont lie i see the vision with axe but its waaaaaay too slow for me i think i prefer combat knife but ill stick with axe to see if i get used to it

[livid raven]

it's not slow at all

[bronze glade]

caxe is best on melee builds

[livid raven]

hivescum can make it pretty fast

[tardy jackal]

really? chain axe? hmmm

[livid raven]

this is a rampage build so it should be pretty fast

[bronze glade]

combat axe

chaxe is chainaxe

if you're on a ranged build, taxe is the best axe

[bronze glade]

oh yeah if this is rampage, rashad caxe is just straight up the best

[tardy jackal]

i would show my skill tree but cant send images T-T

[bronze glade]

yeah gotta chat more before you can send images

can you send links?

[tardy jackal]

ok so to clarify for rampage were talking about caxe NOT chaxe

[bronze glade]

caxe and chaxe are both good

[livid raven]

it works with both

but caxe is just another story

[bronze glade]

caxe is the strongest hiv melee tho

[tardy jackal]

ill try that one then

[bronze glade]

if caxe is S tier, chaxe is A tier

[livid raven]

i mean to be fair

rampage makes literally every melee work

[bronze glade]

specifically rashad caxe, and chaxe mk12

[tardy jackal]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a14df277-8f5a-4b6c-8388-9fc95151029d/h-h-afmelee

[bronze glade]

the other caxe/chaxes are mid or straight up bad

[livid raven]

i think the other combat axe is almost the same

[bronze glade]

one of them is really bad

the other is a worse rashad

[livid raven]

yeah basically

[tardy jackal]

yup got a Rashad

gonna try this one out

[livid raven]

i can send you my build

[tardy jackal]

ah see cuz i was trying out a orestes chain axe

[tardy jackal]

sure ty

[bronze glade]

make sure you take unarmored, and blessings are headtaker / brutal momentum

there's very little build flexibility on caxe

if you fuck it up, it's horrible

if you build it right, it's the strongest melee on hiv

really all or nothing

[tardy jackal]

unarmored as a perk? for the blessings i gotta ramp the mastery so i can upgrade and change them to that

[bronze glade]

yeah unarmored as a perk

you can do carapace/flak/unyielding as the second perk, up to you

[bronze glade]

for brutal momentum you really just need level 1

headtaker you should max out as soon as you can

[livid raven]

headtaker gains a lot of course

[tardy jackal]

shit i did NOT know you could upgrade blessings huh

[livid raven]

you could forsake something for splash damage

wait wrong allocations

or slippery customer

[bronze glade]

not taking hypercrit 😭

[livid raven]

it's cringe

[bronze glade]

ur cringe

[livid raven]

what's it's going to do, kill the chaff even harder?

[bronze glade]

that's hyperv

the point of hyperc is to increase dps against human elites

[livid raven]

just smash them bro

[bronze glade]

[mighty belfry]

The mutant that eats a crit and doesn't die 😔

[unreal stirrup]

I will

🤤

[molten bolt]

"hive scum hood" and its available only for psyker

[gray fable]

shout is absolute dogshit, why taking this

[mighty belfry]

Oh nah

That's crazy 💀

[livid raven]

i can see the case for hypercrit but cmon now

[mighty belfry]

It's literally a vet shout that also procs when rampage ends to give you space or ungrab you

That also slows enemy attacks

Idk how something like that can qualify as dogshit

[bronze glade]

it saves you from dogs too

[mighty belfry]

Whether you take it or not is up to what you want but it's a pretty damn good talent.

[gray fable]

for 5 secs, that pass when enemies get up on their legs after shout

abismal dogshit

[livid raven]

yeah that's why i don't use any ability

after all, they are not permanent

why bother

[bronze glade]

yeah disabling an elite patrol, ledging bosses, dog immunity. so dogshit 😭

[mighty belfry]

Some enemies will get attacks off before the 5 seconds end

[bronze glade]

plz buff

[mighty belfry]

Crushers can try to get an overhead off after getting up in enough time and that overheads gonna be way slower

It matters quite a bit in dense hordes

And it especially matters with bosses

[livid raven]

it could literally be only the stagger and it would still be a fantastic talent

[mighty belfry]

It's forced stagger on demand. That is always a strong utility to have.

[prime vigil]

What perks to take on needle pistol?

[livid raven]

doesn't really matter

they only apply while wielding the sneedler

ideally you are not holding it out instead of meleeing

[prime vigil]

Also, what’s the difference between the marks

[livid raven]

mk7 or 8 has an useless alt mode that does nothing but applies more stacks on weakspot/crit, the other propagates toxin on alt mode

[prime vigil]

There’s only Mk2 and 6? Which is which?

Is the explosive one useless?

[gray fable]

after 130~ levels on hive scum only now i learned there are 2 marks on needle pistol...

[prime vigil]

Yeah, I think explosive one is bad

Mk6

Mk2 alt makes enemies that die from chem apply stacks on others

[gray fable]

yeah it is better

shieeeet

[muted pivot]

2 has really good applications, you can use it as a long range flamer

Solo somebody else's horde while you solo your own with your melee

[bronze glade]

6 is good

it's just that you don't use the alt fire

it has a stronger primary fire than 2

2 is primarily for the alt fire

[flat mist]

Unyielding and reload speed. If you have to fall back or you're using needle pistol to avoid gunfire you want the monstrosities taking more damage as they're the things that force you out of position most

[twilit valve]

Does the % perk damage do anything? I thought 99% of the damage was the passive of chem toxin

Its why I run 60% damage 80% mobility

[flat mist]

Damage perks affect dots

[twilit valve]

Oooh fun

[livid raven]

if the weapon is active

[twilit valve]

Also very good to know

I still run d eagles since I cant stand the time to kill on the syringe gun

[bronze glade]

more m1911s than deagles tbh

[jaunty coral]

havent played in a bit does the change to pickpocket slow down desperado builds now?
anyone got the meta desperado build since the tree changed? ill experiment and swap things around but need to jump in with a friend and my whole tree is reset lol

[prime vigil]

Does reload speed proc on melee kills or do I have to get close kills with the needler out

[tardy jackal]

what would you suggest for stim?

[livid raven]

attack speed and strength

[livid raven]

it procs on reload

[tardy jackal]

got it ty

[jaunty coral]

for a tax axe 7 rampage build (h40) is the cleave node on rampage needed? or is BM enough on the tac axe

[mighty belfry]

BM is enough

[jaunty coral]

ty

how is Toxic Renewal and toxic mania on a 15s stimm supply spam build?

if im keeping things toxic'd a lot, are they worth it? or nah?

(they didnt used to be, but idk if they changed/tree changes makes it different now)

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, not too shabby.

[jaunty coral]

they sound good on paper, problem is finding the 1-2 points to grab one or both like i could drop street tough i guess but idk what else

[mighty belfry]

You don't need 4th stack imho

[limber cradle]

Personally I don't run pickpocket unless it's a purely ranged build

That too

[mighty belfry]

Actually what's the rest of the build here

[jaunty coral]

i havent played in a while but being able to spam needle gun is strong lol

[mighty belfry]

Because this feels surprisingly strict

[jaunty coral]

im trying to re-create my old h40 stimm supply support/dps knife build, it went pretty crazy let me get a pic

but i havent played since some of the changes

[mighty belfry]

My rampage builds usually have more space to work with than this and they tend to use all subnodes

So I'm shocked you have so little wiggle room with crate

[jaunty coral]

High crit, fast, stimm supply spam, i often get the melee cleave node bc you can H2, L1 combo on the mk6 knife and cleave pretty damn well, idk if it will feel different since uncanny changes tho

[mighty belfry]

Honestly

Might be worth taking off ATW

[jaunty coral]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a116c652-30f6-421c-a29b-45c870bd67b2/hive-scum-support-knife-maniac-share-youre-drugs

this was the build before they changed the tree

ah still breaks it

[dense hollow]

i dont have a single build with maxed out chems

[jaunty coral]

hmm, i havent tried without it i like it bc it makes it explode fast (more toxic spread) and lets me move quick and drop it without caring about positioning too much, people just touch it

[dense hollow]

i dont think its worth it

[jaunty coral]

ya, thats probs an easy drop

but the 5% crit is nice

[mighty belfry]

A Tertium Welcome is just the 15% melee on first target

[jaunty coral]

and more crate spam

[mighty belfry]

On the top

[dense hollow]

how are you getting more crate spam from maxed out stimms

usually your stimm crate is replenished by stimm cooldown

[jaunty coral]

good for breakpoints tho, boss dmg etc

[dense hollow]

instead of actual cooldown

[jaunty coral]

its 10% more cdr

its marginal tho

[mighty belfry]

Literally does nothing

[dense hollow]

10% more cdr does nothing here because your crate comes back because of your stimm

40% cdr does nothing either

[mighty belfry]

Your stimm cooldown isn't affected by it

[jaunty coral]

makes stimm come back faster tho, but on a 15-30s stimm doesnt do much

oh stimm isnt effected by cdr?

[mighty belfry]

No like

[jaunty coral]

i just figured it was

i see

[mighty belfry]

It actually does nothing.

[jaunty coral]

ah

[dense hollow]

it genuinely does nothing for stimm crate

[jaunty coral]

lmao, gotcha

[dense hollow]

even with a maxed 75 second stimm

[jaunty coral]

ok ill try to drop it

part of the build is super high crit chance, and since uncanny nerf if i keep the crit very high i can maybe drop uncanny?

[dense hollow]

no reason to run uncanny on knife

just run precog&riposte

[jaunty coral]

so idk if i want that 5%, but its probs not better than base dmg or tough regen

was the uncanny nerf that hard?

is it just not worth it anymore, even in havoc with high hp values?

[livid raven]

the amount of enemies where it does something decreased and you always start from 0

[dense hollow]

riposte and precognition is active immediately when you dodge

[livid raven]

and knife already has good adm irc

[jaunty coral]

bc of rotten armor change?

[mighty belfry]

And there's not a lot of crushers anymore

[livid raven]

that and crushers decreased in general

[dense hollow]

you need to hit the enemy to put brittle on them

and its per individual enemy

[jaunty coral]

oh stacks are on the enemy now, not yourself?
rip uncanny stacking tricks for flamer/purg 🙁

[livid raven]

yep

and shredder grenades

[jaunty coral]

man, spamming pushes on force sword to stack uncanny and nuke everything was genuinly a lot of fun but i understand why it was broken lol

aff shredder nade spam too my baby

https://tenor.com/view/shook-distraught-devastated-done-crying-gif-15489803

[mighty belfry]

Shredders are arguably better than kraks rn lol

[jaunty coral]

it was the correct decision for balancing and the health of the game

[dense hollow]

well kraks lost their extra grenade

[jaunty coral]

but i enjoyed those cool mechanics and tech's

[livid raven]

i mean tbh

[jaunty coral]

https://klipy.com/gifs/always-has-been-among-us

[livid raven]

with the crusher nerfs, it could have been left as it was

[dense hollow]

shredders would've still been used more than kraks without a krak nerf

in the current meta

[jaunty coral]

ok thats not true kraks became more meta when rotten armor took over the world for a year but shredders have always been top tier if no rotten armor

[livid raven]

i mean krak also lost a nade i think

[mighty belfry]

Nah kraks 100% became the meta with the density changes

[livid raven]

so misery loves company

[mighty belfry]

Shredders fell off pretty hard for a while

[dense hollow]

right now?

i mean like the meta as it is rn

[mighty belfry]

Oh no. It's shredder now

[jaunty coral]

whats the meta build for scum rn in havoc do you think?

[mighty belfry]

I thought you meant before

[dense hollow]

i didnt think kraks losing their grenade was necessary

nah i mean now

[dense hollow]

probably rampage shivs/rashad/knife

[mighty belfry]

Also am I crazy

[livid raven]

yes

[mighty belfry]

I don't think they lost a base count grenade

[jaunty coral]

shivs still?
rashad doing work rn?

[dense hollow]

rashad has always been doing insane work

[livid raven]

rashad is as good as before

arguably better since less crushers

[jaunty coral]

what about heavy sword, tac axe, those looking good since changes?

[mighty belfry]

Just that the cooldown for grenade regen is 90s as opposed to 60s for the othera

[dense hollow]

they put a good weapon on the class with the strongest melee abiliity in the game

[livid raven]

not like it sucked against them

[dense hollow]

heavy sword is humble and fun to use

its not shivs but scum makes it really shine

[livid raven]

less crushers means more soft targets so yes

[jaunty coral]

i know people been saying rashad is op on hS since its release almost, and it has insane breakpoints, but its general speed, play and dodges always felt lacking to me

and i struggle with it in h40

just dont like it

its also boring xD

[mighty belfry]

It is.

But its very one note

And mobility is average

[livid raven]

the dodges are fine

it just has pathetic acceleration and i want to cry

[dense hollow]

one thing is for sure though

crowbar is worse this patch than before

it's niche of carapace damage is less important

[livid raven]

that was its niche?

[dense hollow]

its all it did

it had abysmal horde clear times

[livid raven]

yeah i mean

[dense hollow]

but had like ok carapace damage

[livid raven]

i don't think it was good at crusher duty either

[jaunty coral]

i was of the belief that this crate-focused scum build (varied stimm cooldown based on modifiers)
was the meta before the recent updates (similar to reginalds old 'chemist' build idea, i just used knife, basically buff team poison everything high crit build)

you think its solidly rampage now?

[dense hollow]

crate has a place

[livid raven]

gun scum hasn't been meta since pickpocket nerf

[dense hollow]

corruption immunity is important sometimes

and a strength&rending and attack speed stimm/cooldown stimm combo lets your team supernova anything

[jaunty coral]

ya, i would run low cd stimm on corruption modifiers, but a higher cd 45s one for team buffs without.
its solid in melee still bc well, knife + talents + high crit
but could play with needle gun and crate and match flame psykers in dmg

it used to feel busted

ill try both tonght, crate and rampage gonna jump into havocs for first time in a bit

[dense hollow]

i always run 75s stimm on crate unless i'm desperate for corruption immunity in cringe modifiers

45s is good too because it comes back more often for more situations

[jaunty coral]

part of my output was constantly aoeing things with the crate, so i liked the playstyle with the lower cd, but ya the bigger team buffs are nice on big waves/bosses/twins

[jaunty coral]

ya, 45s was my midpoint for the build where it still felt relatively spammy but didnt need constant corruption immunity

[dense hollow]

rending stimm makes things smoother

as a buff to give the team

[jaunty coral]

ya i do like the rending stimm

i would do rending stimm on rotten armor

but now that its infested....

is str just better?

or crit

[dense hollow]

theres finesse, rending and crit

[jaunty coral]

ah finesse not str, thats right

[dense hollow]

idrc about giving crit to people because sometimes the weapon just has nearly no bonus to it

rending just always works

[livid raven]

does it tho

[dense hollow]

i mean theres a good chunk of weapons that dont have 1.0 adm to flak i think

i think rending helps in more situations than crit as a team buff

15% crit is good if your team has weapons that have good crit scaling

but then finesse goes on the table in that case

[twilit canyon]

is hyper-critical good?

[mighty belfry]

Oh its no big deal

Just one of the best talents in the entire game

[jaunty coral]

ya i was gonna say unless they made a change to it since i took a break, it wasnt just good, but an insane busted talent

[mighty belfry]

Genuinely bonkers talent

Mutants have never been the same

[twilit canyon]

how about boiling blood

[mighty belfry]

Boiling blood....

I know that's a rampage subnode

And admittedly, the only two you could ever debate not picking are Channeled Aggression and Forge's Bellow

[mighty belfry]

All the other ones are pretty much "why would you not take this tier"

[mighty belfry]

Yeah you should always run that node.

It's a tremendous increase to rampage uptime

[flat mist]

Are you talking about the Speedloader? That blessing just doesnt work at all on needle pistol. What i meant was putting on a 10% reload speed perk

[flat mist]

Surely you take it for the power increase tho

[mighty belfry]

Oh yeah

I should have clarified

You still take that node because 25% extra strength after 10s is actually goated

[flat mist]

I'll die on the hill of renewal being god awful. I was watching someone use it in H40 yesterday and the uptime was utterly abysmal. They picked it over adrenaline unbound too

[mighty belfry]

Tbf it's a stimm crate spam build

[flat mist]

Mania is a bit better because you only need 3 targets to max it out, and it helps stuff die quicker when you're meleeing, getting splash procs, etc

[mighty belfry]

Raw uptime isn't all that dictates its use

[flat mist]

I seriously doubt that changes the equation much

[flat mist]

Yeah i didnt mean literally raw uptime

More like how often was it up when it would be relevant

And that was still like never

[mighty belfry]

Idk, I've used it on a crate build with blackouts

It does actually pull some weight since a blackout going off is pretty much an instant 15% toughness right off the bat

[broken garnet]

heavyswordenjoyer yesterday we were talking about knife marks and you were saying you werent sure if mk3 was ""better"" per se with skill
anyway turns out ive been maining mk3 on zealot this whole time so im actually much more comfortable with mk3 for scum too

[mighty belfry]

Along with the wait time for whatever's hit to die

[flat mist]

10%?

[mighty belfry]

My dumbass put the range instead

It's 10% yeah

[flat mist]

Haha yeah i just looked it up on gameslantern and thought that mightve been exactly what happened

[broken garnet]

are shivs still pulling ahead vs everything including combat knife

[mighty belfry]

Essentially. If you have a build where your main damage dealer is toxin, and you got a bunch of means to spread it out, I don't think it's a bad choice at all.

But for anything else, yeah its not good.

[flat mist]

Also start uploading vods so i can analyse your game footage for theorycraft purposes pls

[mighty belfry]

I think knife is better personally

Just feels a lot more punchy to me

[slender isle]

Heyyy so i finally got the 2 dlc rejects and I'm actually really enjoying the hive ganger but uhh how do you use the dual stubs twirl thing?

[flat mist]

Yeah maybe with like a ranged needle pistol crate build

[broken garnet]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a13edae3-066b-4a01-a4ce-e151a58df34c/knife-scum-for-h40 also for this one why bolt > needle? just to not be bored?

[flat mist]

But melee focused? Feels questionable

[amber sundial]

when the crosshair is smallest m1 for boosted shot

[mighty belfry]

Lethal Proximity increases explosion radius

Including blackouts

[broken garnet]

WHAT

[flat mist]

Tox stacks just dont stick around on targets that long, and when you're slashing stuff isnt generally when you need the toughness

[mighty belfry]

Meaning the toxin spreads further

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I wouldn't run it on a melee build at all

[mighty belfry]

Special attack

[slender isle]

Oh thats strange. Also like uh what does it DO lol

[mighty belfry]

Wait til the crosshair tightens, shoot

[slender isle]

Is it like more rending or something?

The boosted shot i mean

[mighty belfry]

Higher finesse and stagger I believe

[broken garnet]

oh forego jittery too?

[mighty belfry]

Yea.

[slender isle]

ahh okay thanks

[mighty belfry]

I realized my build got messed up cuz that was made before the tree rework

So it kept jittery instead of sample collector when I edited it

Jittery is also good but you want sample for quick stimm recovery

[broken garnet]

for the sake of filling in my masteries what blessings does shiv use

[flat mist]

Speaking of stim cd

Pretty sure long lasting stims isnt actually bad

[slender isle]

Once I fully level my scum I really would like to try a maxxed stim build entirely because weaponised hrt is funny

[flat mist]

It does more work for stimm uptime than SC a lot of the time

[slender isle]

They're putting adderal in the estrogen to make the hivegangers gay

[broken garnet]

I Love This Sentence

[flat mist]

So thats why im always jonesing for stims

It all fits

(Jonesing means having an intense craving for something, alex jones is the reference point for spren's joke and adderall is a stimulant, just so everyone can appreciate my brilliant puns)

(I gotta stop doing so many drugs)

[quaint iris]

One of youz said my strike team sucked but yet we still one without you

(Me a plate face and a veteran)

[flat mist]

Your strike team sucks

Oink oink

[quaint iris]

Not here stupid moron

I hope you get strangled

[flat mist]

I understood you haha

[flat mist]

Me too

[slender isle]

Put in the work on this one

🔔🔔🔔

[flat mist]

I got bars

Reminds me of the sickest quintuple entendre i wrote like 13 years ago for a friends mixtape that no one ever gets sadface

You had to know that molly and charlie refer to drugs, who charlie sheen was and why he was infamous, that sheen means a light reflecting off a surface and be familiar enough with this song that you remembered both the artist and the feature

https://youtu.be/uBRSG1TM9Ok?si=TRVTjPEOwrCGPP1H

Also melbourne bounce for the fucking win

Most iconic and least tolerable phase of australian house music

[mighty belfry]

It's honestly the pathing I don't like.

[flat mist]

Yeah same

And then when i want to take melee damage aura, eg for caxe, i want cdr stimm which long lasting is wasted on

[mighty belfry]

Would have made far more sense to have that and Blessed Stimms both branch out to the talents below equally

But that's effort.

Apparently.

[low harbor]

It’s not, 20s stim duration is quite powerful if u make it DPS oriented

If u do dependency u don’t exactly need CDR path for stim on rampage

[livid raven]

I dunno, i just hate that both the taxes exist

[flat mist]

Yep. Provides a significant increase to stimm uptime % (the exact same amount as sample collector reducing the stimm cd by 25% because math). Plus the obvious utility of a) having the buff up for a longer portion of a high intensity engagement and b) getting more bang for your buck from the not insignificant ~1s investment of actually using your stimm

[fallow sentinel]

can I use hypex to get to my next desperado faster or is kalma v just better most of the time

[mighty belfry]

You can*

*Assuming you get a kill each second. So if you're firing off into a squishy horde, you're good. But if it's a mixed horde with a lot of bulky targets, that's where you start to run into problems.

[flat mist]

Why would you choose hypex over klay on a despo build?

[mighty belfry]

you know I think they meant to say klay actually

[flat mist]

Gotta check

Cos hypex bad

[mighty belfry]

I can't remember the stimm names but I'm assuming we're talking the ranged stimm

[flat mist]

Klay probably oklay

[mighty belfry]

Klay's better than Hypex for sure

[flat mist]

Much easier to find ranged kills when despo's down than melee kills when rampage is

[fallow sentinel]

Oh i meant Hypex since it seemed like I'd want to conserve ammo while desperado's down by doing melee kills til it was back up
But in my experience it felt inconsistent to find targets sometimes

[mighty belfry]

Conserve

Ammo?

...Are you using Pickpocket?

You legit, should not ever be concerned about conserving ammo on a desperado build

[fallow sentinel]

Ur right lmfao

[flat mist]

Also you literally dont consume ammo during despo, so if you're conserving ammo while its not up when are you conserving it for

Next mission ?

[fallow sentinel]

Fuck ur right

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-9403556598434283568

[ancient basin]

only need 1 bullet in the chamber to go infinite

[fallow sentinel]

Does Dependency work alright with desperado builds
Or do you need too many nodes from left side

[tranquil fjord]

too many nodes i feel

long lasting stim is rather weird with chem dependency too

for a desperado gun such as the vraks, the increased finesse from vulture's is nice

[flat mist]

It really doesnt matter that much

Unless you're trying to push 3+ nodes on a second branch of the stim tree with maxed out chems sample collector will easily get you over the line

If you run a full branch + 2 nodes in another tree + long lasting stims you only need 23% reduction from sample collector to gain stacks with maxed out chems

And who even runs maxed out chems

[flat mist]

Yes you can easily run chem dep with desperado

Theres plenty talents to spend

[flat mist]

Whipped this up in 30s, its not at all optimised or built with any specific weapons in mind

[balmy radish]

which taxe variant do you recommend

[mighty belfry]

mk7

[balmy radish]

reasoning?

[flat mist]

Its the best mk

[balmy radish]

why is it the best

[flat mist]

Because of the moveset

Excellent push attack and h1 for utilising bromentum

Pretty sure l2 is a diagonal too but its been awhile

[balmy radish]

what about mk2

[bronze glade]

sad mk7

at least mk4 occupies an interesting niche

[balmy radish]

the mk2 has a lovely x pattern heavy attack

you could h1 an l2

[sand wigeon]

Me on melee scum

[worldly girder]

what's the use case for chem grenades? Anti-horde?

[bronze glade]

yeah, but mostly mixed horde

[vale garden]

Melee scum with maxed rending and finesse/attack speed

https://tenor.com/view/maximum-over-drive-plankton-spongebob-gif-20257404

I think of this every time I pop stim and rampage

[plain orchid]

What's everyone's favorite hive scum voice?

[vernal sluice]

I like em all, hard to decide lol

[worldly girder]

curio advice?
2 toughness, a stamina curio.
3 combat ability regen
3 revive ally
3 gunners? or 2 gunner and a 5% toughness?

[calm aurora]

Mk2 has no heavy smiters, only sweeps AFAIK.

[mighty belfry]

since you asked, and this does pertain to the convo we had before about just being ballsy when you have Rampage up to get the most out of it

Also I have no idea why my camera violently tilted up and 180 at the beginning there

But yeah, nearly a full minute lol

Kinda sloppy but I'll take it.

[mighty belfry]

Also lethal prox blackouts are still goated

[twilit canyon]

For the bone saw, when to use the purple coating?

[low harbor]

Flak & carapace

But ideally don’t use bonesaw

[flat mist]

You're cracked

[twilit canyon]

So when fighting crushers and whatnot the purple is better than the toxin?

[low harbor]

It’s better flak & carapace ADMs (but lower vs other armor types) and applies a unique brittleness type

[low harbor]

Without stun immune u prob just die right there to ragers

[prime cape]

so it stacks on top of the normal Brittleness debuff? Also does that apply to Zealot's Brittleness on Penetrating Flame and the Psyker's brittleness flame staff?

[slender isle]

This is so true because the bone saw is like the strangest weapon in the game tbh

[crimson moss]

die right there to what

[astral canyon]

The 7603980998th rager

[crimson moss]

[low harbor]

Yes & yes

[ancient crest]

Anyone point me in the direction of good shiv + rampage + frenzy build. Probably use needle as gun

[unique dagger]

Try mine out. I consistently top dmg unless I'm playing with my top tier player friends who are playing psyker.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a16d545a-250e-4835-8881-2502dd2a11e9/hamdols-hive-scum-v30-havoc-40

[unreal stirrup]

this is a sign that scrier's gaze need to be buffed

[unique dagger]

if you want flashbangs for nade econ drop splash damage and take pocket toxin.

[unreal stirrup]

also 4 stack dependency?

[unique dagger]

Yes. stim is a %4 attack speed stim.

the short timer allows you to drop sample collector.

[unreal stirrup]

I mean I'd rather having a stim that do something during rampage cd but eh

sweet spot is a good damage boost on shiv imo

[unique dagger]

You trade off your damage spike with stim for consistency basically.

It's a different scum playstyle, much safer one.

[unreal stirrup]

since shiv finnese value

3 is better but that just me

dependency

I mean

[unique dagger]

it is good but it is not as consistent as a tertium welcome so it got taken instead

[ancient crest]

60% needle damage I'm guessing is fine because the damage is from the toxin and not the initial shot

[unique dagger]

es

yes

[unique dagger]

both styles are valid. I do this because my stim isn't spike like other builds so that %10 off my cd is helping a lot to retrigger rampage power spike

[pseudo bridge]

Also the low cd toughness regen from your build is really noticeable on H40. Wouldnt ever go back to high cd stim unless some changes happen

[unique dagger]

the biggest reason why I'm running it like this.
allows me to dive some really stupid stuff and have a mini insta %50 toughness gain every 30 seconds

the constant %4 attack speed buff you have for %50 of the game is also nice so you don't need to run a stam curio for extra attack speed

Lets me take a hp curio instead making me much more resilent into havoc

[pseudo bridge]

Yeah it feels really good this way

[unique dagger]

My friend likes running a higher damaging build with full stim sample collector and stamina curio instead of what I'm running
But it is much less robust and when he makes a mistake he gets punished way harder.
I like playing it this way as I'm most often the last guy alive on my team, the robustness lets me clutch every game I'm in

[pseudo bridge]

Yeah with this talent which regens 50% toughness on toughness break you are instantly back to full

Comes in clutch so many times, even if its "just" to avoid chip dmg

[fresh egret]

Your build looks like a whole lot of fun! 🙂 I have a couple of questions:

• Does hyper-critical work with splash damage? I had the impression that hyper-critical didn't trigger splash damage.
• Also, have you tested similar playstyles with other melee weapons, like the bone saw or crowbar?

[dense hollow]

crowbar is unfortunately very mid

and bone saw is an acquired taste that's also kinda meh but has okay numbers in some places

feel free to use any weapon since scum with rampage makes any of them work well enough

[unique dagger]

Hey friend.
Splash damage does work with hyper-critical so you won't have issues there. We take splash damage to utilize Virulent Strain's insane dmg buff and chip away at density.
Hyper Critical also works with cleave. So you can proc it multiple times in one swing.

I have, all weapons will work well with this setup because hive scum is truly balanced (incredibly balanced class). Shivs is the most powerful one because of its hypermobility, crit chance and dmg output.
BUT you can make all weapons work. You should do one change though.

If your weapon doesn't have good finesse scaling / crit chance, or has good cleave / brutal momentum, go with Hyper Violence instead of Hyper Critical. For example: Try rashad combat axe with headtaker brutal momentum. Other examples are crowbar, bonesaw, heavy sword etc.

If your weapon has good finesse scaling / crit chance, go with Hyper Critical. Examples: Combat Blade, Tac Axe, Shivs etc.

You can make this choice whenever you want in my build because both of them are one point away. Just choose which one fits you better.

[astral canyon]

Rashad is actually the strongest hive scum melee

also most builds take both hyperviolence and critical

[unique dagger]

You definitely can make that choice, I find investing into one heavily and getting some other talent better from my own experience with this class.

And rashad is crazy strong yes, but not beating shivs in single target potential / extreme mobility, so I find shivs stronger. Up to your preference.

[astral canyon]

rashad is 100% beating it in single target

[unique dagger]

No.

[fresh egret]

Thanks for your reply! Really appreciate it! Main reason I asked about different weapons is that all that clicking on the mouse 1 button gives me strain in my hand, especially when using a fast weapon like the shivs😅👴

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/angai313-luigi-luigi-reading-gif-22148197

[bronze glade]

if you're on pc, use a mod like keep swinging to save your fingers

[unique dagger]

understandable. always will be darktide problem that. getting older now I feel the strain too.

[idle sedge]

you can use Skitarius mod or keep swinging to spam light melee

Or just set a macro, click 1 and click 2 and set it around ~10ms

[mighty belfry]

Pretty much. I would have been stunned ages ago lol

[mighty belfry]

They do in raw dps. Shivs just can't allocate the damage to other targets like Rashad can.

Shiv bearing Rashad in single target to be more specific

What makes Rashad so good is that it can just keep the same damage competency across numerous targets with BM

[mighty belfry]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a13edae3-066b-4a01-a4ce-e151a58df34c/knife-scum-for-h40 a build with a different thought process from Hamdolsun's if you want stimm damage spikes. But the stimm isn't maxed either. I like having a medium CD stimm to have my stimm be at the ready any time I'll need it even when there isn't much going on for sample collector to proc.

You could quite literally just replace the weapons with shiv and needle and it'd be just fine.

And finesse stimms are a MASSIVE damage increase

[slender isle]

Gang wtf is the needle guns deal 😭

[astral canyon]

wdym

[hot edge]

https://giphy.com/gifs/watermelon-13n7XeyIXEIrbG

[zenith fern]

yes

[slender isle]

"Gun that one shots and also has aoe" is insane im sorry

Well its a one shot given enough time

[zenith fern]

the enough time that is just one-two seconds agaisnt most specials

[slender isle]

Yep

Tho imma be real I don't think the explosive mode is really very good at all

Not that im an expert ofc 😭

[livid raven]

it's awful

[heady trellis]

Spreading the toxin with it has some use if you run a crate build but in general it's not very useful. You're mostly using it for specials, elites and bosses not horde clear.

[astral wing]

1 stack for the tiny aoe

its piss xd

[floral wedge]

Is attack speed even that noticeable on scum?

[livid raven]

uhhh yes?

[floral wedge]

I'm running rampage, speed stim and swift endurance but I can't notice shit on shivs

feels the exact same

[limber cradle]

Take it all off

[floral wedge]

Why?

[limber cradle]

You'll notice it

[open quail]

are pinned build good?

[livid raven]

no

[limber cradle]

No idea, never tried them

[livid raven]

they are outdated and were made right at release

[limber cradle]

Yeah, then outdated

[open quail]

Is stim supply bad?

[astral canyon]

no but its not as good as the other two abilities

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl I love having a stimm supply scum around

[open quail]

why

its a support variant?

[limber cradle]

Cause I play chem depp scum and they give me free stacks

[open quail]

whats chem depp scum

[limber cradle]

One of the nodes at the bottom, gets bonuses for using stimms a lot

Having a chem dep scum means I get free stacks

[astral canyon]

right keystone

[dense hollow]

stimm supply is a good ability

but rampage is an extremely good ability

[open quail]

solo scum vs support scum

ye?

[astral canyon]

stimm supply also relies on having actually competent teammates

[dense hollow]

you can support the team by making them not have to deal with any enemies anymore

[astral canyon]

true

[open quail]

also I see most builds run needle pistol, are akimbo stubs ass?

[dense hollow]

akimbo stubs are serviceable

[astral canyon]

dual stubs are alright

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl I prefer stubs to needler cause but I use my guns basically exclusively to kill specials at range Right Now

[astral canyon]

its just that needle pistol is really effective and requires pretty much 0 talent investment

[dense hollow]

i prefer bistol

lethal proximity memes/good two shot breakpoints

[limber cradle]

Yeah, it's valid. Doesn't have as much style tho.

[dense hollow]

you're right on that

[limber cradle]

I've been waiting for these thangs for awhile, I'm not gonna not use em

[astral canyon]

you wont use them

[zenith fern]

i will use them instead

[open quail]

do you run nimble and jittery or just one of the two?

[dense hollow]

just nimble

[limber cradle]

I run both, personally

With knife

[zenith fern]

nimbling out

[limber cradle]

And the movement stimm

[dense hollow]

running both is mega safe

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-serious-instant-transmission-gif-9296156966866168908

It feels like this

[dense hollow]

if you feel like you need it, take both

[open quail]

movement stim?

[dense hollow]

being alive is 100% more dmg than being dead

[open quail]

there's movement in the cartel stim?

[dense hollow]

yeah one of the nodes gives move speed

[limber cradle]

Bottom left tree

[open quail]

damn

is there a way to reliably lower stimm cooldown

if you load it too much it gets kinda long

[limber cradle]

Sample collector

Gives iirc 1 percent CD back on kill and 2 percent on toxed enemy kill

[zenith fern]

that the thing, load it less

[open quail]

chem nade valid?

[open quail]

cause it feels like top right node kinda mandatory since scum melees a lot

[zenith fern]

Thats generally the best path

[limber cradle]

There's basically no bad option in scum tree

Just bad combinations of them

[zenith fern]

scum tree launch

[limber cradle]

I mean we aren't there anymore

And tbh I miss OG tree

[zenith fern]

but we should

fully revert scum to launch

[dense hollow]

scum getting buffed every patch

[prime vigil]

Do damage perks on needler affect DOT?

[astral canyon]

yes but only as long as youre holding it

if you swap to your melee then its perks will be active instead

[bronze crown]

As of now what is the Desperado meta gun?

[gray fable]

uzis

[low harbor]

Vraks V infantry autogun

Same as always

[bronze crown]

So it is still the same debate.

[low harbor]

It’s not exactly a debate

One is better dps & accuracy

One is better mobility

Sorta preference?

But most of the time accurate & deadly firepower tend to resolve things faster

[loud wolf]

excited to try scumming it up

[tardy jackal]

actually should have asked this yesterday but what is considered the easiest build? for HS or at least one thats easy to pick up to learn how to play it

rn running rampage caxe and loving it but i do want to get better at HS

[glad sinew]

Anyone have weapon suggestion to get Brutal Bludgeons done faster? Using crowbar now but It feels too slow to charge up

[tardy jackal]

also heard Taxe is a good set up too

also why dont people run combat blade anymore noticed all the upto date stuff only uses axes and occasionally shivs?

[lunar quarry]

so i got HS on sale and low level missions have 2-3 scum very often because i wasn't the only one with such a brilliant idea
as for the class, it's fun but kind of hard. i feel brittle and i'm very used to relying on high cleave melee which you just don't get (not this early at least)

[worthy jewel]

Rampage and chemical dependency nodes make a massive difference to survivability

When you've got a panic button you can hit every 15 seconds or so to fill 50/100% toughness back

Also spamming dodge and left click enough to induce carpal tunnel helps

[worthy jewel]

Shivs, needle gun and rampage and you're every hive scum in havoc 40 lobbies

[glad sinew]

I couldnt get into the Needle gun, Not sure what its whole shtick is but I just cant get used to it

[worthy jewel]

Swap to it when you see a crusher or a boss and mag dump

Keep it on the yellow one thats only single target stacks and it melts on its own even after the nerf

With the stink on crits for melee and more damage to stinky targets its a big increase to damage, can mag dump a plague ogryn and then give it the melee spam and itll keep full stacks because of your crits

Whilst not completely sacrificing your ability to deal with gunners and snipers from afar, although those iron sights are cheeks

The weapon fov mod helps make it easier to aim, its big time busted but dual pistols were my go to for ages

[glad sinew]

Ill give it another try, was trying to use it as a group clearer

[dense hollow]

needle gun is just basically a single target gun

for killing specials, carapace and bosses

[worthy jewel]

It used to be great for that on release but now its just a big single target DoT gun

[glad sinew]

As the ol "Woe Plague Be upon ye" gun

[lunar quarry]

One thing i might do, well after getting the other classes to lv30, is unbind jump from space
Yeah i've not done that yet, point and laugh

[worthy jewel]

The "takes 10% more damage from all sources when inflicted with tox" is a huge increase to overall team damage

I kept jump on space

Dodge is on my mouse button 4

So my right wrist really gets a hammering playing scum, especially on the event with max stacks

Ended up downloading the autoswing mod skitarius to deal with that

Also I only learned after 400 hours a couple days ago that fully charging heavies doesn't give any more damage without thrust

[low harbor]

There’re rare exceptions like crowbar

[glad sinew]

Do I need to fully charge my heavies for them to count towards "Brutal Bludgeon"? I couldnt really find an answer on that

[low harbor]

Is that the heavy atk kill while cartel special stim’d penancd

[glad sinew]

yea

[low harbor]

U don’t need to full charge heavy

[worthy jewel]

Honestly no idea, I think I got that whilst just shivving carapace

[low harbor]

And u shouldn’t basically ever

[dense hollow]

just any heavy attack

[low harbor]

Even thrust is not that good in this game in the first place

[lunar quarry]

opinions on bonesaw? what does it play like generally? is it a gimmick weapon or just a sword?

[tardy jackal]

really? shiv and not axes? ok ill try it

[lunar quarry]

i'll unlock it soon

[worthy jewel]

Yeah idk how i beat havoc 40 before knowing this because damn is it a huge increase in my dps not standing there charging heavies

[dense hollow]

shivs/rashad/knife rampage

[worthy jewel]

I guess theres an argument for axes now with the nerfs

[low harbor]

Rashad is the best hive scum melee

Shivs are high t1, good

Tac axe is also high t1, good

[dense hollow]

knife is really good too

[low harbor]

Knife is better than shiv on hive scum but people are not ready for that conversation yet

[tardy jackal]

what blessings would you suggest for shivs

[worthy jewel]

Shivs were just the default you saw everyone with, The changes to the blessings definitely shook that up but I still see more shivs

[low harbor]

Riposte + executor/precog

[worthy jewel]

The 2 that buff you after dodge

[dense hollow]

the blessings didnt shake anything

[tardy jackal]

ty

[dense hollow]

its always been ripose + exec/precog as the best blessings for shivs

[low harbor]

Cuz people like mobility & stabbing, and it aligns with class identity more

Even tho Rashad mogs literally everything significantly

[lunar quarry]

and what about bonesaw? is it even good?

[worthy jewel]

I rated rending into rotten armour

[low harbor]

No

[worthy jewel]

And it was always rotten armour

[low harbor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1444017590748975125/1495163707712344124/1831188251140791.mp4?ex=6a175836&is=6a1606b6&hm=bb69327b1668953f3e99d34a2b74fbe22b7240ca970c4bff1f3977f97aca2727&

3s for 6 ragers

Power sword tier dps with none of power sword’s downsides

Very fair and balanced weapon

[dense hollow]

shivs have good enough carapace adm already

and you can use a node that just gives you +25% rending to heavy attacks

so precog and ripose did a lot more than uncanny+some other blessing did

[worthy jewel]

Fair, they have more downtime for me since im just dodge spamming and not fishing for perfects

[dense hollow]

what do you mean perfects

[low harbor]

Rending is also capped and its value heavily depends on attacks’ base ADMs

[worthy jewel]

Like dodging at the sound

[dense hollow]

oh

[low harbor]

There’s no perfect dodge mechanic in this game

[worthy jewel]

If im just dodging back and forth before something hits me it doesn't count as a dodge for precog

[dense hollow]

i mean if you're dodge spamming it'll be active for 50% of the fight anyway

if u get hit while u have dodge frames you dodge

[worthy jewel]

Not perfect in that way but the game isnt registering that im dodging an attack when im just dodging all over the place

I have the crit chance showing and its default more often than I'd like

[low harbor]

Because dodge only counts as successful dodge if an enemy attacks u

[worthy jewel]

Especially with an ogryn with taunt

[low harbor]

Dodging at nothing is obviously gonna do nothing

This is why taunt and smite can sometimes lower ur team’s dps

[worthy jewel]

Most times im fighting a group of specials im kiting back and staying out of range so im not actually dodging attacks in the same way

Moving out of the way of it rather than iframing it

Which is on me but I feel like im not getting full value of those buffs

Where as uncanny was always there when I needed it, but didnt think about rending softcaps, does make sense

Shivs also have decent horde clear just spamming lights, which is something I struggle with with a lot of other weps tbh

Fast attack speed more toughness regen on hit

Although axe is just as fast if not faster, meaning the bigger weps

[low harbor]

Axe is fastest

[dense hollow]

yeah rashad horde clear is insane

[astral wing]

brutal momentum moment

[worthy jewel]

Ill give it a try, what blessings/perks do you take?

Think i have it levelled from sacrificing shit out of the shop

[astral canyon]

brutal momentum headtaker

[low harbor]

Unarmored, unyielding, flak, carapace (choose 2)

Brutal momentum, headtaker

Check my guide for details

[astral wing]

uncanny got popped maybe in a year or two BM gets smoked too

[low harbor]

Use rampage and adrenaline

CD stim

[worthy jewel]

Where would I be looking for said guide

[astral canyon]

pinned message on #veteran-class

[worthy jewel]

Cheers

[glad sinew]

Almost Solod a Chaos Spawn, till a pox burster sent me into timeout and the spawn took advantage of a drugged out pyscho

[mighty belfry]

I'm ready because I've been saying it for a while now

Knife's finesse curve on this class explodes.

[worthy jewel]

shivs fit my orky naming theme better

snikrot wouldn't be using an axe

[mighty belfry]

My dumb ass hadn't even realized in this clip that the poxburster didn't kill the trapper at the 49 second mark. I actually managed to get a perfect shot at the moment the burster blew up

I must have been playing this at like 1/5th of my brain capacity not to catch that

[shy bluff]

Combat or Tac Axe?

[dense hollow]

rashad is better

but tac axe is really good too

[bronze glade]

Rashad for melee builds

Taxe for ranged builds

[mighty belfry]

Taxe good on melee build too

I prefer taxe to be honest.

[mossy tapir]

i just wanna make sure, does lethal proximity off the bolt pistol work to increase the radius of the booby trap explosion

[mighty belfry]

It does.

[mossy tapir]

neat

[astral wing]

yeah but shivs light spam feels so braindead in comparison

[shy bluff]

This I feel. Especially since I primarily used Taxe on Vet

[tardy jackal]

so i tried Caxe CHaxe ComKnife and Shivs so far i will say COMknife is strong but i feel doesnt hit as many people in front of my compared to the other weapons i tried CHaxe hits hard but mad slow without stimms compared to Caxe and Shiv which are faster and hit more people Shiv is borderline a blender even without stimm

planning on seeing how Taxe feels later

[mighty belfry]

"Doesn't hit as many people"

What are the blessings you're running?

Cuz that, should not be happening on Rashad.

[mighty belfry]

Heh. Hehe.

Every Hive Scum. Right.

[unreal stirrup]

with crusher being castrated taxe is very nice tbh

mauler exist but even without maxing crit hc proc make kill time very competitive

[mighty belfry]

There's also coated weaponry which tac axe loves

It's probably the best weapon to have that talent on if I'll be real.

[unreal stirrup]

outside of boss damage i think taxe > caxe on scum now tbh

[tardy jackal]

no Rashad is great

i meant Comknife doesnt have as much of a swipe neither does Chainaxe

but Caxe is great

[amber dove]

Whats the ideal blessings on the shiv?

[mighty belfry]

Thing is that it shouldn't be having trouble cleaving.

[unkempt crow]

Precog + Riposte iirc

[unreal stirrup]

executor + riposte tbh

40% strength vs 60% finesse damage

[bronze glade]

both of them have kinda shitty proc conditions

or rather executor's drop condition i should say

[mighty belfry]

Wait ahhh I see.

Are you using mk3 knife

With the strikedown stab?

Fact is combat knife isn't a weapon that's big on cleave itself. It's not gonna do the kind of stuff Rashad will with BM (nothing will really)

But mk6 at least has a really wide vanguard swipe that is actually decent at cleaving

[bronze glade]

knife is only worth using when going full monke

mk3 enjoyers

[inland shore]

can anyone share a meta build for havoc 40

[shy bluff]

There is a staggering amount of people just walking up to deamonhosts and swinging at them

just to die

[vapid jungle]

DH rubs me the wrong way so I get it

[mighty belfry]

Based?

[tardy jackal]

ngl my favs so far are rashad and Shiv mk i

[mighty belfry]

I'd say experiment a lil. A lot of weapons on this class are really fun since it covers some of their faults

[wise burrow]

What's a good resource to look up like attack string combos for ST or hordes for weapons like shivs or bone saw?

[bronze glade]

you don't need a guide for those

for bonesaw, it's just light spam

for shivs, it's light spam for horde clear, and heavy spam for mk1 single target

they're extremely braindead and simple weapons

[mighty belfry]

one thing I do wanna add for shivs

It's nice to throw in a heavy with the lights for horde clear if you have hyperviolence.

It feeds a lot of overkill into your lights and helps cleave distribution losses.

[limpid torrent]

question, do stimms have a base affect that you are adding on to in the lab, or is it ONLY the effects you give it?

[flat mist]

60% finesse on shivs is like 45% damage increase since you have like 80% crit and ~50% weakspot rate

[unreal stirrup]

60% finesse damage

not strength

the other one is straight up strength

[flat mist]

40% strength during rampage is less than a 25% damage increass

[unreal stirrup]

also it not like you're not hitting weakspot anyway

[flat mist]

Yeah no one clocks higher than about 50% weakspot rate

Executor is ok into hordes because you're more likely to hit atleast one head

And executor is a significant buff to toxin

[unreal stirrup]

also strength is calculated first before other buff

the downside of executor is that you can accidentally drop your stack

but i think shiv is fast enough to build it back in no time anyway

the same apply for knife

[amber dove]

When should I use my stimm? Because I always find myself barely using it.

[vapid lava]

Depends on the build

[amber dove]

I'm using shivs mainly

I guess I should use it whenever I don't have my Ability up since I'm using Chemical Dependency

[vapid lava]

Generally, you can alternate between using the stimm and the combat ability

[amber dove]

Yeah, thought so

[amber dove]

Thank you

Hyper-critical or Extra Pouches, though?

[vapid lava]

The sample collection talent is hard to miss, and it lets you get the stimm back fairly quickly

[vapid lava]

Hyper critical is one of the best talents, so I've heard

[main trellis]

Shivs yes cause better vs horde
Knife not so much due to attacks it has

[verbal dew]

no base, need at least one node picked for it to appear, with none you are like any other class and can pick up the usual ones on the map

[muted pivot]

Both imo

I'm a lunatic who skips the +25 toughness in my rampage shivs build thouhh

[spice cloud]

I would only take extra pouches if you have a spare point anyway or do a ranged build with not many melee nodes.