hivescum-class

[neat valley]

how does this work?

can you actually get all 4 stacks?

[sleek raptor]

Where do I find hive sum builds without watching a whole youtube video

also it seems like every video is out of date

[verbal dew]

yes, they decay one at a time

[sleek raptor]

The whole tree is different now it seems

[verbal dew]

but you need a lower stimm duration to make it consistent

[mint valve]

Is there an updated version of a vulture build with either shredder autopistol or dual autopistols

[spice mural]

Absolutely.

I use 15/30 on the stimm lab to get a 45 second cd.

[bronze glade]

not worth it

opportunity cost is too high for what you get

[neat valley]

You get like 20% toughness damage reduction and 20% crit chance

[bronze glade]

no, you get 5% of each

pathetic amount for the investment

[neat valley]

Each stack

[bronze glade]

and that's assuming you took the crit chance and tdr subnodes

[neat valley]

Of dependency

Yeah

[bronze glade]

yes and how much more does 4 stacks give vs. 3?

i.e., how much more do you actually get by taking this talent?

5%

[neat valley]

5% with each stack, with the forth stack you get to 20%

[bronze glade]

yeah

by taking the keystone and its subnodes, you get 15%

by taking the 4 stack node

you get 5% more

which is pathetic

[neat valley]

[bronze glade]

and this doesn't even factor in the part where you gimp your stimm for this node

take it if you want, it's just objectively not a good node

[reef spoke]

its the "6 stack FT" node but for hive scum

at least it's a clear indicator of someone that knows what they're doing vs someone that hasn't heard of "opportunity cost"

[astral canyon]

its even worse because its only one more stack and it also has a downside to boot lmao

[bronze glade]

that's actually a really good analogy

[bronze glade]

lol yeah

[molten shale]

As an economist, this causes me pain

[bronze glade]

but hey if someone wants to gimp their build, it's their right to do so

all we can do is tell them the issues with the talent

sometimes ignorance is bliss y'know

[reef spoke]

hearing the words "um it's cheap?" when playing strategy games 😭

[rough peak]

"It's cheap"
3/4ths of your money later:

[reef spoke]

"what is build time"

[bronze glade]

me: this talent gives you 5% more
them: so it gives you 20%
me: no, it's only 5%
them: sounds pretty good, 20% crit chance!

every fucking time a discussion about this talent comes up

[reef spoke]

At least with Vet's FT node it was a team-wide buff so it wasn't "bad"

this one is just straight up 5% crit and 5% toughness resist for 1 person which is literally worse than a normal stat node

[bronze glade]

and to add on top of all that, it gimps your stimm usage

what a deal!

[reef spoke]

indeed, can't pop it when you need it

[rough peak]

Honestly you've opened up my eyes tonight about that talent

[reef spoke]

I hope they rework it one day as I do like the idea of doping up constantly

[rough peak]

I was thinking of the 20% total bonus, not that it only gives 5%

[reef spoke]

but it's just not worth it atm

[bronze glade]

yeah once you think about it, you realize it's quite bad

it looks good at first

unless you're super thirsty for an extra 5% cc

[rough peak]

It's not mk1 dclaw bad, but, that's a hell of a low bar to get over

[reef spoke]

it does have some synergy with Hypercritical or high finesse weapons like Shivs but definitely not worth a talent point

[jovial heron]

10% cdregen 5% cc 5% TDR. It’s not the worst but there’s a lot of good talents

[rough peak]

b-but my 10% extra crit from using 1 whole talent point for 5% crit and a perk slot for 5% more crit...

[reef spoke]

ah you're right, it does give an additional 10% cd regen. I forgot to account for that :c

[rough peak]

[bronze glade]

well what you really need to account for

is that you only get 10% cd regen base

[reef spoke]

still though, I think Hive Scum isn't starved for good talents so definitely not worth it

[bronze glade]

and only by spending 2 extra points do you also get the 5% tdr and 5% cc

[reef spoke]

especially when you got stuff like "15% close range damage on dodge"

[bronze glade]

in other words, to be even worth considering the talent, you need to have invested 3 fking points into the keystone already lol

[rough peak]

tbh I think I was taking it for the total of 20% tdr instead of 15%, rather than 20% crit instead of 15%

[reef spoke]

I do also hate shooters :p

[bronze glade]

it's just such a minuscule amount i don't think it's a good idea

i'd rather just have stimm flexibility

and 1 extra talent point back

[mighty belfry]

JUST

give ur stimms crit chance

ez

[jovial heron]

Because the base bonus of 4 stack is anemic it REQUIRES all the subnodes yes

[rough peak]

You're right, I just wasn't using critical thinking

[jovial heron]

But my finesse damage

[rough peak]

b-but my attack speed...

[mighty belfry]

lowkey been liking crit chance more for the hypercrit procs

and it's nice to have coated kick in more for sample collector

[reef spoke]

if you were lucky, you wouldn't need to stack crit

[rough peak]

My luck is about as high as the 1st one to die in a horror movie

Which could be taken 2 ways... horrible luck by dying 1st... or great luck by not having to deal with the horror bullshit any longer >.>

[reef spoke]

knows luck is bad -> uses hypercrit 🤔

[rough peak]

Sounds about right

[hearty fossil]

is the saw cleaver any good

havent had much luck in making it viable unless im using it wrong

[jovial heron]

It’s kind of mid because of the way the moveset is and the cleave

You can make it work it just requires more build crafting

[fast flume]

alo studs

[astral canyon]

and shit stagger

[fast flume]

is full support good

or stinky bum bum

[rough peak]

It's better than the mk1 dclaw... but like I said early that's a really low bar

[hearty fossil]

been fucking with the daggers and really only the daggers i cant find anything else i enjoy on hivescum

[mint valve]

Crowbar + rampage + adrenaline frenzy

Turn your brain of and bash everything down

Cheap shots is a must have if youre going to use it, because at that point the crowbar already has decent stagger potential

Superiority and take a swing will be the most useful most of the time

Granted you hunt down elites and specialist AND push constantly

[hearty fossil]

im doing a desperado build but this could be fun

the auto pistols just speak to me

dodging around like a madman

[main trellis]

Nah it ain’t; on rampage that thing is very potent

[main trellis]

I suggest can instead of super; extra rending on carapace is smth you gonna need

And since in beak mode its a double hit you just have to do 2 lights & its 40% brittle

[flat mist]

You & @reef spoke : 15%/3=somehow less than 5%

This conversation is so bleak tbh

You get 30% cd regen, 15% crit and 15% tdr for three points, ie, 10% cd regen, 5% crit and 5% tdr per point

[bronze glade]

wdym

[flat mist]

Maxed out chems then gives 10% cd regen, 5% crit and 5% tdr

[flat mist]

That yapping about 5% from maxed out chems is like failing a year 7 maths test

[bronze glade]

ok so let's say i spend 2 points, and get 30% cdr and 15% cc. i then spend another point on maxed out chems, that's another 10% cdr and 5% cc. nothing changes the fact that you're spending more points for less diminishing cc gain

[bronze glade]

you just woke up and decided to be an ass huh

happy monday to you too

[flat mist]

My brother in christ, Eidolon clearly said "you get 20% toughness damage reduction"

We arent talking about skipping that

[bronze glade]

sure and even if you take that node, you're still only getting 5% more cc

[flat mist]

Because yes, you're right, the third point investment is mathematically inefficient if you sont rake it

[flat mist]

THATS HOW MUCH YOU'RE GETTING PER POINT ANYWAY

Bruhhhh

What is 15/3?

[bronze glade]

why are you calculating the value of the node based on taking subnodes that have nothing to do with it?

taking the TDR subnode doesn't change the cc value of 4 stacks

it just means you also get 5% more tdr than you would've otherwise received

[flat mist]

Uh, they dont have nothing to do with each other? They directly change what the talent gives

[bronze glade]

the value proposition from a cc perspective ltierally does not change

[flat mist]

And you view the keystone investment as a whole

[mighty belfry]

I'm crazy to say this

[bronze glade]

from a crit chance perspective, the fact that you're taking a tdr node is irrelevant

and i'm assuming most people take chem dep for the cc

[flat mist]

You're either spending two points for just crit and cdr, which makes the third point into maxed out chems mathematically inefficient

Or

You're spending 3 points for crir, cdr and tdr which makes maxed out chems perfectly balanced mathematically

[mighty belfry]

I've actually started to like 4 stacks lol

My brain just likes hearing the crit sound

[neat delta]

Chem dependency?

[bronze glade]

the mathematical efficiency is the same

[flat mist]

Jesus christ

I literally just explained it

[bronze glade]

and i told you why the TDR node is irrelevant lol

[flat mist]

No you explained that you were making a faulty assumption

[bronze glade]

no?

[flat mist]

This is a faulty assumption

[bronze glade]

and it doesn't change any of the logic

for the purposes of calculating return on crit per talent point invested, you disregard the keystone subnode that adds no crit and is not a mandatory take

it's 7.5% per talent point base (15% divided by 2 talent points)
with 4 stacks, it's ~7% (20% divided by 3 talent points)

[flat mist]

Right so you're calculating something that has nothing to do with the conversation, since the guy you responded specifically stated he was after the tdr too

And everyone wants the cdr

[bronze glade]

ok the exact same logic applies to the TDR

[flat mist]

No it doesmt

Doesnt*

[bronze glade]

it follows the exact same logic i laid out for crit above

[flat mist]

If you take the TDR your base investment before maxed out chems is now three points

Maxed out chems then gives you the same amount per point as your previous investment

[bronze glade]

why would the denominator in that scenario include the cc node? it doesn't give tdr.

so you're counting a subnode that adds nothing to the stat in question

[flat mist]

Because maxed out chems gives an increase to the stats from all three of the prior nodes

[bronze glade]

yes, and you calculate the return separately for each

[flat mist]

No, you dont

[bronze glade]

because the subnodes are not mandatory nodes

[flat mist]

You calculate the investment in total

[bronze glade]

and they provide different buffs

let's just say i go with your argument and say the denominator is 4

even then, you still have the issue of the stack decay speed

which gonna be real, is pretty ass

[flat mist]

Yes now we're getting somewhere

An actually valid objection

[bronze glade]

lol whatever

[flat mist]

The real lesson here imo is that 15% TDR is actually not worth a talent point

[reef spoke]

I swear people can't do math

You clearly have no clue why the opportunity cost for that talent is too high

Of all the things you invest 3 talents into

[reef spoke]

I swear this is the "guys 6 stack focus target is good" and "guys MY recon build is actually good" shit again

Simple numeracy is too much for Darktide players

[main trellis]

As if tdr is the only thing there for it
There is also 50% toughness regain on stimm use; very crucial & helpful in survival when suddenly you get chipped
And no; tdr is king - having more despite diminishing returns is still better than not having it
Remember; you can’t kill if you’re dead yourself (unless undead but wrong game )

[flat mist]

lame and unbased dad doodle

[main trellis]

Uhm… it is tho lol; cause its also very much worth it due to how fast you gain focus stacks too (previously it was quite bad; now its very good)

[main trellis]

Cope & seethe boi; experience speaks for itself

[reef spoke]

An additional 5% damage buff coherency-wide is worse than an aura

[main trellis]

Its about dmg debuff on marking

[reef spoke]

It's technically better than the Stim Dependency talent though due to being a team buff at least

[flat mist]

math is hard

[main trellis]

The synergy with redirect fire is a bonus; its all about the debuff

[reef spoke]

You'll get there one day

[reef spoke]

I personally never get 6 stacks as I find there's often too many targets to ping

[flat mist]

yeah hopefully ill learn what 15/3 is. when do you take that class?

[reef spoke]

But I can see your logic

[reef spoke]

Ah yes investing 3 points for stats that require you to gimp your stim

[main trellis]

Yeah fair; i don’t ping as much no more; still gets handy when smth big comes + that 5% dmg you know; it ain’t nothing

[thin seal]

you dont need to always get to 6 stacks. you can get 6 stacks once, and then refresh duration even with 1 stack focus target kill

[low harbor]

it's ~12.4% more dmg at full stacks than base
still wouldn't take it over RF if I only have 1 point and have to choose between them

[main trellis]

If the durration was reduced to 75s it would be alright
But its 60s and thats a huge downgrade from 90s for effectively 10% cdr, 5% crit & tdr

[main trellis]

I take both

[reef spoke]

I often find the fights are intense enough that I cannot reasonably consciously save 6 stacks for a higher priority target.

[low harbor]

it's not as bad as before

[main trellis]

Its mainly for bosses

[low harbor]

7.5s to max 6 stacks

[reef spoke]

Indeed, popping stim off cooldown instead of timing it for a big fight is already a no-go as it is

[low harbor]

4 stacks take 4.5s to reach

[main trellis]

Before it was rough i remember… now they come back very fast andceven when you’re at 0 stacks the moment boss spawns & gets to your team you should be ready with 6 before dmging it

[flat mist]

dude take an english comprehension class instead, saying that your maths is wrong doesnt mean im saying the node is worth it

[reef spoke]

I can see that it's likely a playstyle issue in this case as I often ping targets frequently to warn allies even outside of Focus Target

[main trellis]

Exacly; you know whats up

[reef spoke]

Oh then you have no reason to talk to me. The conclusion was already met long ago. Don't waste my time

[low harbor]

it's not as bad as before
with that said, I still don't think it's that great vs RF or TD on a tree with as little choice as vet's
if vet had 2~3 more points to spend then I'd consider it more

[main trellis]

Its also the knowledge about boss spawn points; once you know you approach one on the map as you play you can save your tags if it spawns; works both auric & below & havoc

[reef spoke]

It would have been funny if cooldowns continued while your ability is active as well

I get Hive Scum's abilities are too strong otherwise but I can dream :p

[reef spoke]

Ah yeah I haven't memorized boss spawns. I at most get "oh I remember a boss spawning here" vibes

[main trellis]

I still manage to take both tbh; no issues
I don’t take the stamina one (its good but in practice it does not get to be fully utilized… same for born leader… due to all the regens others have or abilities ect.)

[flat mist]

Nah I'll still try and save you from yourself

[reef spoke]

I probably need to work on that for maps like Glorianna as I don't play it often (barrels scare me)

[reef spoke]

k

[main trellis]

Its ok my friend; mondays are rough but you’ll get through it just like last time
Now take your meds

[flat mist]

i genuinely am grumpy because im waiting till later to take my vyvanse kekw

[main trellis]

Now we know!
And knowledge is half the battle!

[reef spoke]

Yeah that's why I'm hesitant on it too. As stuff like Skirmisher and Precision Strikes are a lot easier to quantify :c

[main trellis]

Ye i feel ya (platonically); i work now in the cold outside for a change (won’t do much; it rained again…)

[reef spoke]

Indeed, hopefully they add the Hound Master into the boss rotation soon so I can get extra surprise bosses lol

(I genuinely don't know how to fight him as I always get the funny frag bomb)

[low harbor]

4-stack dependency is mathematically not diminishing returns if u take both crit and TDR (if only crit, then 2 points for 15% becomes 3 points for 20% which is diminishing)
which is what irosk is saying and it's technically not wrong

[flat mist]

thank god

[reef spoke]

Yeah but the original argument was the opportunity cost involved. It was argued that Crit and TDR were not worth the opportunity cost of limiting your stim and the points

[flat mist]

someone gets it

[reef spoke]

The numbers are also not that impressive anyways

[low harbor]

yea the opportunity cost is shit

no one is denying that

it's just not quite that shit like we like to think

but it is shit

[reef spoke]

Besides if they really cared about the numbers, should have mentioned that we didn't account for cooldown rate

Which was a true mistake

Thankfully caught it later

[main trellis]

So basically what @low harbor said;
Its not liquid dogshit…
But still shit; solid & firm but still shit

[reef spoke]

Honestly wish they'd buff the drug side a bit to be less annoying with minor details like that

[flat mist]

im not superman. one travesty at a time.

[reef spoke]

To be more specific, the "need to stim every minute part"

I want my max strength stims

[flat mist]

you dont need to stimm every minute tbf

[reef spoke]

True, it does decay only 1 stack at a time. My words are hyperbole :c

[flat mist]

yeah fair

my brain protests as soon as i drop to -1 stacks though

[reef spoke]

I'm probably just nitpicking as at worst I'm down a stack for a few seconds

[flat mist]

the trick is to just human up and run max visc stimm with maxed out chems

bro you cant kill 40 enemies (or 20 toxed) in 45s??? skissue

[reef spoke]

Yeah, especially because the stim is so strong so I typically like to hold onto it for ogryn waves. Being encouraged to spam doesn't sit right with me

[reef spoke]

Especially with Hive Scum lol. Such a ridiculously high kill rate when juiced

[flat mist]

yup

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/zo28kr

like this

i was mucking around with a hyperviolence calculator (see the numbers in the chat box)

[reef spoke]

Interesting to see how consistent your crits were. Procced pretty much on every heavy swing

[flat mist]

riposte, butterfly, 3ChD, 20 base w/ aura, 15% knife = 95%

[reef spoke]

I've always tried it with shivs for the high crit damage + toxin vs crushers (proc on ogryns one day ) but I never did try the knife

[reef spoke]

Oh yeah that'll do it lol

[flat mist]

basically what ive learnt from about 8 hours in the psykhanium last night is just how bad not critting is for HV

[reef spoke]

I should try that with a Hypercrit + Hyperviolence build

[flat mist]

and just how important finesse is for scaling it up infinitely

[reef spoke]

Indeed :c I tried it with shivs but it proved too inconsistent for my tastes due to my low crit

[reef spoke]

Ah I have a crit stim instead and use the +25% weakspot talent to try to compensate.

Seeing your crit chance with that build would be interesting to flip around with to stack finesse

[flat mist]

@low harbor i didnt realise just how impactful finesse would be (both internal to the weapon and from buffs) for scaling HV up.

for some reason id been under the impression that HV was a flat number applied after your buffs and wouldnt itself benefit from extra multipliers

the numbers in brackets are the increases from HV

so first line of data is 173 damage to a crushers body with h1 mk3 combat blade

which goes up to 199 damage with the same overkill buff from hitting a dreg bruiser for 477 overkill

the reaper data was really interesting. all you need is ~500 overkill damage and just 10% crit damage goes from a ~6% bonus to ~double that

[flat mist]

its fairly complicated arguing which is better. depends on the weapon, how much other finesse you have and your crit chance without it.

is that with shivs?

[reef spoke]

Yeah, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head and it's getting late where I am so I'd have to develop a build later.

But I plan to use it with MK1 shivs and compare with the Combat Knives (and later tac axe because I like it c:)

[reef spoke]

Yeah the crit stim + weakspot talent combo was trying to work MK1 shivs to try to use Hypercrit on weaker enemies then use the damage to slam ogryns (after softening with tox knives)

[flat mist]

Sounds like a solid plan, id probably just swap to finesse stimm though if you already have riposte + butterfly + ChD

[reef spoke]

Yeah it works c: (until it doesn't, I hate shooters)

Yeah planning to try that. Mostly got to fine tune how much stamina curios to use as I find getting shot a bigger issue for me :c

That 6% attack speed is very tempting though...

[neat valley]

is there a way to abort the campaign?

[verbal dew]

no

[neat valley]

i started by accident and i though how many missions could it possibly be?

[gray fable]

at the character customization to the left for 50k iirc

[neat valley]

wait fr?

[flat mist]

Thats just practice man. I hardly get cooked at all by shooters but im over true level 2000

No build crafting comes close to the importance of just dodging and sliding on scum

And positioning

Which i kinda suck at tbh

[calm aurora]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735819155608961044/1075903515718848622/spingryn.gif

[wide burrow]

this penance got completed in less than 1 mission

praise hyper violence

[jovial heron]

I was always using finesse stim

https://tenor.com/view/tom-cruise-shades-cool-smug-cool-shades-gif-18677159

[slate venture]

does anyone have a guide on how to complete the Stimmed achievement for HS?

*penance

[vapid jungle]

I think the flexibility of the str sub tree is a bigger part of why scum is gr8 than people realize. Being able to nudge and tweak per weapon/build makes it easier to play to their strengths and weaknesses.

[jovial heron]

It’s pretty much applicable to the whole talent tree. You can get more cleave if the weapon lacks it. More crit chance if it lacks it. More attack speed. More damage

[vapid jungle]

Yah even having the dmg reduction can help if you're transitioning to a higher difficulty and struggling to adjust. Gotta Praise Fatshark every so often.

[unkempt salmon]

I love playing Scum in Auric and coming across Daemonhosts

I just mag dump my needle pistol, bonk it a couple of times, then block

[wide burrow]

use stimm supply and this talent. get yourself cartel special stimms (because there really is only one circumstance in which you would prefer to have regular stimms, and that's the healing stimm, in which case you should have played better anyway)

keep track of how close your special stimm is to getting off cooldown, drop stimm supply crate when it's getting close, use your stimm when it comes off cooldown, drop another stimm supply

immediate 3 stacks

DO NOT use stimm supply when your special stimms are ready because it consumes both your ability cooldown and your stimm cooldown WITHOUT giving you the stimm, meaning you consume 2 stimm stack opportunities but only gain 1

[spice mural]

I saw another hive scum try that in havoc yesterday, he was like “I got this ez.” And then got grabbed by a mutant during the 1v1 and got absolutely destroyed.

It was very funny.

[unreal stirrup]

mk1 is like barely worse than mk7

while having better horde clear

the mk4 literally have no redeeming qualities

worst parry followup, single target is dogshit because all you have is h1 bc but since this is dt and not vt2 it dogshit

same horde clear as mk7

[slate venture]

Thank you so much, that helped MASSIVELY! Just got the achieve 😄

[bronze glade]

well no. the denominator is still 3, not 4 for calculating diminishing returns for cc or tdr. the denominator only consists of (a) the keystone itself and (b) nodes that grant cc or tdr (whichever one is question). you disregard the node that doesn't do anything when assessing cc or tdr return.

even if you invest 4 points into the keystone (extremely questionable decision regardless), there are 3 nodes that contribute to cc, and three nodes that contribute to tdr. if you did choose to take both fortified / enhanced, it doesn't increase the denominator to 4 because the effect of each is provided through separate subnodes.

[molten shale]

This looks correct, although diminishing marginal returns are a red herring here since opportunity cost is the only thing relevant to determining a talent's relative value (i.e., "Should I take this?")

[bronze glade]

yeah that's prob the real question

i think the diminishing returns question is only relevant for the purposes of tdr/cc maxxing

and if that's why you're taking the keystone

the diminishing return calculations is based on what actually contributes to each stat + the mandatory keystone itself

[spice mural]

I had my very first havoc silliness moment in h27 mercantile yesterday. Two chaos spawn, the twins, and a captain in the street section. As luck would have it both spawn decided I looked delicious.

So I kited them while shooting them with my needle pistol and wearing them down until I got one and then the other.

At least that’s what it looked like. In reality I went “oh fuck!” And ran with them chasing me so I abused windows and corners and kept then toxin going.

Very exciting.

[muted pivot]

Flak/carapace or flak/unyielding for mark 1 shivs in rampage chem dep build?

sidearm is needlegun

[jovial heron]

What do you fear more, bosses, reapers, bulwarks? Or maulers and crushers?

[muted pivot]

have been doing carapace so far, wondering if I should be unyielding

tbh bosses die fast enough

[jovial heron]

Question answered

[hearty fossil]

Holy based pfp

[wide burrow]

Good night, brother! In midnight clad I march upon Atoma.

[hearty fossil]

Ave dominus nox.

[vapid jungle]

Love the Thragg still

That mfer is scary

[reef spoke]

indeed :c There's just always that one shooter hiding somewhere out of sight that glasses your toughness bar lol

[molten shale]

I will never recover from this

[mighty belfry]

What the fuck even happened here

[molten shale]

Lightning

[mighty belfry]

In the ship.

[hearty fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/invincible-i-am-invincible-thragg-viltrumite-viltrum-empire-gif-4698577271704049137

Im not impressed

[molten shale]

This was worse than when a mutie grabbed me while I was inside the ship and killed me

[keen bridge]

What's the inherent crit chance for scum chat I forgor

[astral canyon]

10%

[stray mulch]

I dont think lightning can hit you there

you are portected from it when under something

unless the ship dont count as cover

[molten shale]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You can see the cause of death in the clip

[stray mulch]

ive not been hit by a single bolt when under something

ship might just not count lmao

[molten shale]

I've had it happen inside other buildings too, but it's inconsistent

[stray mulch]

patched soon hopefully lmao

[reef spoke]

Fatshark dev personally intervened to smite you

[flat mist]

Ok lets phrase this like a child's math test:

You go to market and buy 30 apples for a silver coin, 15 oranges for a silver coin and 15 lemons for a silver coin.

The seller then offers you 10 more apples, 5 more oranges, and 5 more lemons for another silver coin.

Are you paying more, less, or the same for the additional fruit?

[molten shale]

With each analogy the original question/point becomes more obscured 🥲

[reef spoke]

We should keep going and see what happens c:

[stray mulch]

yes

🤡

but it's diminished in the sense that you are paying the equivalent amount to the prior but for less product

[flat mist]

It's actually just really simple, though. Maxed out chems gives the same numerical bonus to cdr, tdr and crit per talent point spent as your previous 3 point investment.

The reason it's not worth it is a) the more cd regen you have the less time is taken off of your cooldown, ie, diminishing returns, b) the talent point that gives tdr also restores 50% toughness. This is not boosted by maxed out chems, so you receive less value here, and c) the opportunity cost of spending the talent point elsewhere as scum has so many strong talents

[stray mulch]

im assuming this is about chem dependency?

[flat mist]

Yes

[stray mulch]

also true

i think it's only ever worth getting the one more stack IF you have no where else to get damage value with the last point

and even then you MIGHT want more defense

I takes it specifically only when I can't hit 50% flat without it and even then, 5% conditional crit and tdr DOES NOT read well

[flat mist]

Exactly. And the fact is there's always more value elsewhere with all the new chem talents, street tough, etc

[stray mulch]

yeah, i think i have it on one build and that's because i couldnt get to channeled destruction

or whatever that talent is that scaled damage with crit [because I was building for toxin]

but as mentioned like 2 weeks now: 5% crit is almost never worth taking over any other damage talent on the tree AURA or otherwise

[bronze glade]

lol I’m not relitigating this

I know why you took the position you took

But no point in beating this very dead horse

And in any case, it’s a very specific part of why 4 stacks suck

[stray mulch]

FS shoul legit just change that talent to something else

add another stack maybe, but as is, it's kinda ass

💩

[bronze glade]

I guess if bro REALLY needs that five percent extra crit

[stray mulch]

in all fairness i dont think ppl do math when building so its fine if someone doesn't understand/weigh the value of it in the same way

[muted pivot]

I mean a lot of scum melees do have disgusting crit bonuses

The shivs are crazy

[stray mulch]

yeah but crit bonus pefers damage over 5% crit

realistically if i was at 45% crit, 10% damage would still look way better than 5% crit. And the dps value is kinda close

[muted pivot]

I also like having a full stimm

Which is easier with 3 stack

That swung it for me

[stray mulch]

tbf

maintaining 4 stacks isnt that hard

even with less than 90% uptime

by the time you lose the 4th stack it's only a bit more before you reapply it

but again: 1 point for a draw back and not enough benefit

[stray mulch]

i just witness someone get killed by it in the ship just now

nah man XD

homie was screaming

[reef spoke]

make it go from +1 stack -> +10 stacks

any balance issue can be solved by adding another 0 UwU

[flat mist]

Its ok to just be like "yeah i got the maths wrong but it still sucks." You won't burst into flames because you made a mistake

[mighty belfry]

Oh gosh

It's happening again

[flat mist]

I will never stop

[bronze glade]

Did someone insert the stick up your ass or did you put it in yourself?

You’re out here just trying to pick a fight over the dumbest shit ever

And acting like the end all be all when the answer is hardly as black and white as you think it is

[stray mulch]

👀

[mighty belfry]

It's kinda amusing this has been going on since yesterday. I do wanna say, I don't think it's worth getting hung over math for a talent with a questionable opportunity cost.

[stray mulch]

im here for it though

[bronze glade]

Yeah I’m past giving a shit lol

[stray mulch]

too many feels-tide comments hehe

[bronze glade]

But bro keeps coming back for seconds and thirds

[stray mulch]

we could do a bit without the toxicity though

in all fairness there are many with very heavy opinions on things

no one is really doing the math but yet ppl ARE willing to act like something is good bad without proving it

or relating it to anything

not saying some ppl need to be bullied

but we should call it out every now and then 🙂

[mighty belfry]

Because math isn't the whole story.

[stray mulch]

it's not

but it is most of it

[bronze glade]

Bro just came into this conversation that had nothing to do with him looking to pick a fight

[mighty belfry]

I just started liking 4 stacks cuz crit sounds make my brain feel good

[stray mulch]

fair

[mighty belfry]

And that's the only thing that should matter

[stray mulch]

i finally did scroll up to read some of the convo

tbh the comment on this were a bit concerning, at least with some of the view on it

[flat mist]

Bro get off your high horse, i can link the comments where you say things like "ignorance is bliss" if you like. Don't act like you werent using inflammatory language before i jumped on the bandwagon lmao

And i inserted the stick myself, fyi

[stray mulch]

we all use inflammatory language in here, dont deal if you can't handle

frfr

[bronze glade]

None of the language was directed at you. You decided to be an ass for the love of the game.

[flat mist]

And certainly dont use it if you cant handle it in return

[bronze glade]

You seem like the type

[stray mulch]

ayo

[flat mist]

100% yes. Did you also do it for the love of the game or some other reason?

[bronze glade]

If you could actually read, you would know why.

[stray mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/planktoons-plankie-plankie-lurve-planktoons-lurve-planktoons4life-gif-17446599124562669995

[bronze glade]

Unlike you, I don’t randomly be an ass to people unprovoked lol

[flat mist]

I cant read, you cant do basic arithmetic. Match made in heaven 💋

[bronze glade]

If you could read, you would’ve realized that arithmetic wasn’t the issue.

[molten shale]

Pls it must be bait

[flat mist]

Yes it was. We've gone over this.

[bronze glade]

Anyway, blocked. Pls get off on your ass stick in private.

[flat mist]

Hahaha rip

What a child

(So am i)

[bronze glade]

Not going to enable the fetishes of someone fucked in the head

[flat mist]

Bro you're constitutionally incapable of admitting any fault, mistake or flaw in your thinking

You can get help for that.

[stray mulch]

so like can we talk about all the love/hate FS shows for the classes?

[mighty belfry]

Alright, I really do think it's getting a little outta hand.

[stray mulch]

when we gunna buff toxin mechanics?

[bronze glade]

I only see love tbh

They keep buffing it like it’s psyker

[stray mulch]

ogryn would beg to differ

[bronze glade]

Oh for all classes

[stray mulch]

and toxin would also sit next to ogryn

[bronze glade]

Thought you were taking about hiv specifically

[stray mulch]

soulflame is there sitting cozy

[stray mulch]

eeeeh, scum is loved but for me, i very much dislike some of the choies between talent introductions and interations

lets look at ogryn rq

they have a new talent that is similar to the vet talent where you can spend stamina while aiming

but it's just kinda ass

kinda like how toxin has a lesser version of support in comparison to soulblaze

actuall warp damage in general just has a more fleshed out system and it's clear they borrowed ideas from psyker -- just omitted the really good parts

[astral canyon]

Tbf the vet talent is also ass

[stray mulch]

i can't call something that gives 25% crit with high uptime ass

it's just not the greatest talent, but it's legit better than most

legit valid to give up trench fighter drill for it when on las recon

[mighty belfry]

That's the single weapon

Where it really makes sense to use it.

[stray mulch]

eeeeh

it's also good on vraks too

crit chains on that weapon are hefty enough

[mighty belfry]

Not even remotely enough for what you lose in survivability

Especially since unlike recon

You don't have a means of just not needing to reload

[stray mulch]

you are assuming you are giving up survivability for it

this is false

[mighty belfry]

You're using stamina while aiming. That is a loss in survivabilty.

[stray mulch]

losing stamina while shoving would be a loss in survivability too then, so is running

its not good logic

spending stamina to deal with threats is only beneficial

.>

the resource exists for a reason

you are also probably always using duck and dive with it, or in some cases target down (this one you dont see much)

i doubt you'll run into many stamina problems even in havoc, given the amount of shots you are probably dodging with Duck and Dive or the enemies dying with target down

[astral canyon]

Most vet builds dont take duck and dive

So thats an extra point you have to take just to offset the penalty from deadshot

[stray mulch]

ive not seen a single one in h40 recently that didnt have it when using the recon

actually i lied, i had one game with a target down vet that wasnt using it, but that was the 1

people assume too extremely that something isnt worth using or isnt good just because they themselves dont use it

thus my statement earlier

some of yall gotta get bullied for these opinions 🙂

advocate for bad things but dump on things that aren't truely bad

[mighty belfry]

I haven't seen a vet take duck and dive in literal years

Or deadshot that matter

[stray mulch]

im calling cap on running into any recon users for havoc then 🙂

unless you are only playing with the same ppl every time you are playing

[low harbor]

it's more because of the dmg-return-stamina mechanic once u drop below 50% stamina

and duck&dive only working against a few enemies and with a really long internal cooldown

and vet having no luxury in talent choices

[stray mulch]

iirc too duck and dive was only more recently fixed

because before you didnt have to dodge to get the stamina either

they just had to shoot in your general direction

but i still see it

[low harbor]

no changes were made to this talent in recent time iirc

[stray mulch]

last one i ran into with it was weapon specialist that skipped the 10% attack speed node

[bronze crown]

Currently are Mk I shivs best melee and what about Autopistols vs Vraks Mk V Infantry Autogun?

[bronze glade]

Vraks is the strongest

Also Rashad is strongest hiv melee

It’s so busted

[bronze crown]

Thank you. I keep hearing different things.

[mighty belfry]

I mean you can believe I'm lying

But really those are not very popular talents

I play with recons quite a bit but they don't use those talents.

[bronze glade]

I recommend trying Rashad with a rampage adren build and seeing for yourself how stupid it is

[mighty belfry]

Rashad. Blegh

[bronze glade]

Yeah it’s boring

[plucky nymph]

devils claw boss dmg moment

[mighty belfry]

[hearty fossil]

what is the classes best melee weapon?

[bronze glade]

I just answered that question five messages ago 😭

[hearty fossil]

And that somehow doesnt answer my question!

is it the shivs, cause thats the only thing thats been working for me

[molten shale]

Whichever weapons you're good with ultimately, but try shivs, combat blade, combat axe, tactical axe

[hearty fossil]

Ive been using shivs i just wanted to hear the common opinion

[stray mulch]

that name XD

[bronze glade]

How does this not answer your question

[hearty fossil]

how hard is it to just answer?

[stray mulch]

ngl @bronze glade you did answer

i just dont think they get that

[hearty fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-drooling-patrick-star-spongebob-movie-drooling-slime-gif-525340425450564005

genuinely

[fallow sentinel]

if all i want to use on scum is dual pistols is that ok

[stray mulch]

do what ever you want my junky

[bronze glade]

Congrats. You found the Easter egg. So there’s proof that you know how to read, but we’re just too lazy to scroll five messages up. 👏

[stray mulch]

wait c'mon man

we just talked about how we convo in here lmao

[hearty fossil]

being a pissant for no other reason other than to be a pissant

waste of flesh

[stray mulch]

brothers!

[bronze glade]

My man. I answered your question. And you decided to be rude about it lol

[stray mulch]

calm down and lets redo this, yeah?

[bronze glade]

Tbf i was planning to crop the ss and send just the response

But iOS had different ideas

And sent the full image

Oh well

[stray mulch]

@hearty fossil if you aren't playing in Havoc, use whatever you are comfortable with: Shivs, Combat Blade, Combat Axe, or Tactical Axe

mostly Rashad and Shivs in more difficult situations. Ultimately it all boils down to skill and pref

[mighty belfry]

I guess it makes sense that the Hive Scum chat can be a little

Toxic

[stray mulch]

aye don't got getting punny on me

lmao

[bronze glade]

Yeah just annoyed that I answered the exact same question 30 minutes ago. Tell the guy teasingly to scroll up

He decides to get snarky

[stray mulch]

it's the internet

[mighty belfry]

Yeah it be like that.

[stray mulch]

teasing is a sin online

[bronze glade]

And gets upset when I point out he’s being an idiot lol

Annnnnyway

[stray mulch]

iight how bout this

yall only allowed to be toxic to me

no more mean comments in my drug channel

[bronze glade]

No I’m only toxic to people who are mean to me first

[mighty belfry]

Honestly I don't even think the Rashad is definitively the best at this point. Def one of the best. But its got some genuine contenders atm

For the tier 0 spot

[stray mulch]

it's just what i see scums use on my runs if i ever get one

[bronze glade]

Shiv?

[stray mulch]

if you asked me what the best melee was i'd tell you to just forget melee and find out what the best ranged weapon is

all the melee are kinda good on scum

[bronze glade]

I mean shiv is good but idk if it’s THE number one

[stray mulch]

except bonesaw and crowbar

[mighty belfry]

Combat knife tbh

[molten shale]

mk7 tacaxe

[mighty belfry]

Or tac axe

Those three have their own merits for being absolutely dumb strong when applied

[bronze glade]

Idk neither of them have the raw damage output that Rashad has

But they obviously have great mobility

[stray mulch]

I think Shivs might actually have more DPS

just not the same damage per hit

you know -- swing speeds and all

[bronze glade]

If you do a raw dps test in creature spawner Rashad is just king really

[mighty belfry]

They lack cleave

[stray mulch]

if mods weren't the bane of my existence i would check it no lie

[mighty belfry]

And you can really feel it.

[stray mulch]

yeah, but im just talking about dps

[mighty belfry]

I was talking more in a general sense.

[stray mulch]

because even without the cleave for hordes you are basically killing them in 1 swing each

when i talk about dps it's always on a singular target

since hit BreakPoints kind of dont matter in Havoc

[mighty belfry]

I mean i think the main metric here was just

The best weapon

Not the highest dps

[stray mulch]

yeah but then best is just super arbitrary, which is why I agree with the comment earlier

[mighty belfry]

You may very well be correct in shivs having the higher dps but, it does lack in places now that has actually leveled them down a lil

But the margin is really small

They are still very good.

Arguably still busted but I think that's more scum pushing them to be busted than them being busted by their own right.

[stray mulch]

personally, just having the toxin blades that you can throw puts it on a margin above everything else for me

that DoT is actually a major consideration

especially because you pretty much ALWAYS have it in Havoc

[mighty belfry]

Definitely makes them more versatile for running a toxin heavy build

I'll give them that.

[stray mulch]

not even because i like toxin

the dps from the toxin unmodified is just 'sizeable'

and you always get 1 back if killing a special/elite in melee

it is a bit of micro though

when you could just shut your brain off a bit more when using other melee hehe

[mighty belfry]

Yeah that's the thing. Shivs definitely aren't as brainless anymore after patch

When I tried them for the first time after nerf, like

[low harbor]

rashad combat axe and it is not close

[mighty belfry]

They still do a lot of damage

But you can't really just throw yourself at a 100+ horde and come out unscathed by just light spamming like you used to.

[bronze glade]

I think he knows now, hopefully

[bronze glade]

Mk3 still is. Mk3 best knife and best shivs

[stray mulch]

i died after that patch

so many times

[hearty fossil]

Thank you for being helpful! Not a hard task at all!

[stray mulch]

lmao

[hearty fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/arabfunny-arab-gif-519661515216855374

[bronze glade]

You’re welcome!

[mighty belfry]

Goodness gracious

Idk tho like

[molten shale]

smh my head, literally stolen valour

[stray mulch]

bro i legit just copy pasted what others said

plz

[mighty belfry]

Rashad is dumb strong but

There's something to be said about other things amassing crazy dps and mobility at the same time in one package

While still being perfectly serviceable at cleave

[bronze glade]

lol scroll up if you want more stupidity

[stray mulch]

I'm sorry

[bronze glade]

Actually

Don’t waste your time

[molten shale]

I'm appointing you my intern

[molten shale]

You mean the fractions?

[bronze glade]

just more stupidity about people not reading

When they are most definitely literate

.

(I answered the question 30 minutes ago before he asked)

Anyway people do be like that.

[molten shale]

That's what I was referring to being stolen :P

[bronze glade]

No valor found in this channel

[jovial heron]

What is the best melee weapon on this class?

Is it bonesaw? Cause that’s the only thing working for me

[bronze glade]

Try scrolling up

[bronze glade]

At least it’s not the crowbar

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/ladies-and-gentleman-we-got-him-gif-12313683

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/mission-accomplished-gif-9140868

[jovial heron]

Needed it to be possible not outright ridiculous

[patent bone]

Eyy. I'm making drugs

You guys want drugs?

[winter tusk]

is the crowbar finally better

[jovial heron]

top tier makes rashad look like a limp noodle. take it into havoc

[bronze glade]

Better yea. Still sucks tho

[winter tusk]

still doodoo against armor?

[bronze glade]

I don’t think the hook was ever bad against stuff like crushers

And that was buffed iirc

[winter tusk]

its was just alright imo, took too long for armor packs

i'll test it sometime soon

[flat mist]

Jesus christ you are such a hypocrite hahahaha

[reef spoke]

I think the problem with Crowbar is it seems stuff like attack speed doesn't boost the crowbar's special attacks

I haven't tested in a while but that was my problem with it

[flat mist]

Some dude posts in chat asking a question and you just lose your shit because its similar to a previous conversation 💀 💀

[reef spoke]

obligatory "it doesn't hit hard enough" too but Adrenaline + Rampage exists

[astral canyon]

yeah latch attacks dont scale properly with attack speed

[reef spoke]

rip :c

[astral canyon]

it also goes for stuff like chainsaw weapons

[low harbor]

there're 2 problems
1 is that it can't do mixed horde & single target on the fly that well
2 is that the heavy beak atks are still really slow even tho they do a lot of dmg

[reef spoke]

such is life, at least Combat Blade got me covered

[astral canyon]

the time between the first tick of damage and the last tick will always be the same

[flat mist]

@low harbor TIL weapon damage perks are multiplicative with other damage bonuses, not additive like i assumed

i just assumed from kuli's guides saying "additively with other damage buffs, and multiplicatively with power level buffs." over and over and over that every +damage buff fell into the first category

[low harbor]

yea ik that already

x%dmg vs armor is a separate thing from +dmg

backstab is also separate

dmg taken is also separate

[flat mist]

this makes sense to me

but, eh. thats interesting

[low harbor]

there're also other stuff that aren't written out

attack templates can have innate power_level_multiplier

and some attacks also have power_level = X which changes their value

both of these are separate multiplicative to everything else iirc

[flat mist]

i love it

[austere coyote]

motion values

[flat mist]

speaking of im compiling a list of what the damage from HV scales with. this is what ive got so far
Yes - ADMs, finesse damage, damage vs armour perks, rending, rending over cap, backstab damage
No - damage buffs, virulent strain, melee strength, strength

[stray mulch]

MH player?

[austere coyote]

yeah lmao

[unreal stirrup]

virulent strain is a debuff ofc it doesn't transfer

[flat mist]

how is that obvious? im talking about the HV portion of an attack on enemy that is inflicted by virulent

its these numbers here. hv is adding 22.5 damage (its 37.5 hv multiplied by the 0.6 cara ADM)

you'd expect 137 or 138 with VS + HV depending on rounding

added melee strength to my no list

finding a solution to buffing my damage vs the secondary target but not the primary is kinda fun

melee strength is easy. you just hit primary target, rampage, hit secondary

also a no to general strength, boo

[flat mist]

im still confused why "ofc" a damage taken debuff doesnt apply to the portion of damage coming from HV but does apply to the rest?

[stray mulch]

IS THAT THE RIGHT MATH?

wait yeah ignore me

102 should translate to 10.2 damage

[flat mist]

yeah

thats the full data from my testing

[mighty belfry]

did i just see

[fluid ether]

only those weapon perks that increase damage against armor types stack multiplicatively with damage buffs and power level buffs (this behavior is mentioned for Zealot's Purge the Unclean). perks like damage vs specials/elites are additive with other damage buffs, etc

[mighty belfry]

I did

[mighty belfry]

Okay. I actually did not know the Vs Elites perk was additive.

That's helpful.

[flat mist]

Yeah i tested elites damage immediately after to see if it was also mulitplicative with + damage or not

The hv scaling results really show why combat blade/shivs are so much better than everything else at sending hv to the stratosphere

Its absurdly easy to hit the cap with those weapons

[flat mist]

@fluid ether did you know about this?

[fluid ether]

yes, I don't think you understand what you are measuring, or rather at what point during damage calc melee_damage_bonus is applied. it is a flat damage value that is added after base damage has been calculated.

• "base damage" (= an attack's base damage as per damage profile, scaled by its defined power level, power level buffs), multiplied by
  • "damage buffs" (all additive damage buffs like damage vs elites)
  • "damage taken debuffs"
  • once this is done, melee_damage_bonus is added to "base damage"
    then, "base damage" is further modified by:
• all rending stuff
• all finesse stuff
• backstab stuff
• hitzone multipliers
• armor type stuff (e.g. weapon perks)
  the file is massive but the logic of hyper-violence starts here: https://github.com/Aussiemon/Darktide-Source-Code/blob/fd8bcc4c8bca52b14d79ce1fafd1cb6be0e07ded/scripts/utilities/attack/damage_calculation.lua#L181-L183

also here: https://github.com/Aussiemon/Darktide-Source-Code/blob/fd8bcc4c8bca52b14d79ce1fafd1cb6be0e07ded/scripts/utilities/attack/damage_calculation.lua#L294-L296

when all additive buffs are summed up, melee_damage_bonus is returned separately in damage_stat_buffs_bonus and not in damage_stat_buffs like the others

[flat mist]

yeah so while i might not understand what im measuring, literally all of my conclusions were correct

[fluid ether]

your conclusion was that "hyper-violence gets scaled" which is technically not correct because it does not get scaled by anything. you're measuring damage values that were scaled by the usual sources, with hyper violence being in the pool as well

[flat mist]

you're just rewording what i said in a strange way. my conclusion was the damage from hyper violence "scales" with rending, finesse, backstab multipliers, hitzone multipliers, armour perks but not damage buffs, damage taken debuffs or strength

[mighty belfry]

yeah i was under the impression that hyperviolence's bonus was simply flatly added in separation from any damage buffs

[flat mist]

which is literally what you just posted also states

[mighty belfry]

and it just happens to work in a way that could be mistaken as hyperviolence itself being scaled by those buffs since, those buffs are also what's propagating the overkill ramping

[flat mist]

what i meant by the word scaling is adding to the hyperviolence buff with additional overkill

lets just remove that i used that word

my conclusion was this #hivescum-class message

by scales i just mean "is multiplied by"

[fluid ether]

what I'm saying is: hyper-violence adds that damage amount from overkilling the dreg stalker which will always be 25% of that overkill damage. if you increase the overkill damage, the final damage total down the line will also be increased, that's obvious

[flat mist]

yes. but thats not what was interesting about what i found

whats interesting is that the damage, strength and damage taken buffs are applied before HV is added

i literally just, through testing, was able to essentially derive the exact complicated formula you provided kuli

[fluid ether]

I could have saved you a lot of time

[flat mist]

i had fun

[fluid ether]

but testing things is fun

yea

[flat mist]

and there is merit to doing things yourself

[neat valley]

is this like good for a bonesaw build?

i am currently trying to full mastery the bone saw as well

also this is like a damnation build

oops

[flat mist]

you can cut a bunch of crud from the right hand side but otherwise its fine

toxic renewal and targeted toxin are pretty shite talents

[neat valley]

they works sometimes really well when swarmed by ragers tho but you are right

i am considering the butterfly and pulverizing strikes

sweet spot is also good

[calm aurora]

that is what I told you days ago

ALLEY CAT IS DANGEROUS

[flat mist]

i didnt comprehend what the dodge speed difference meant 😭

[calm aurora]

it is all fun and daisies until your muscle memory get screwed

this is why using twbs makes you an exec vet, an immat focus psyker,

[flat mist]

im never taking alley cat again

[calm aurora]

also why I don't use EE

[flat mist]

dodging more often + longer linger time = so much more iframes too

[spice mural]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-alert-bumper-adam-devine-pitch-perfect-lame-gif-17474980

[jovial heron]

Nerd orc alert

[limber cradle]

Nimble supremacy

[vapid jungle]

Nimble always and forever

[unique dagger]

taking alley cat means when dodging with the shivs you touch a piece of terrain and go flying

you'll have legit airtime

[vapid jungle]

Or you do the half pipe thing

[unique dagger]

it will get you killed lmao

dodge upstairs? you go flying

[limber cradle]

Ime you'll still trimp with nimble too

I use movement stimm too tho

[vapid jungle]

Yea I still fly with or without

[unique dagger]

I need to check something actually

alley rat plus dodge stimm - can I do the jumps in relay station

without doing the eyes

[limber cradle]

Fuckin probably

[unique dagger]

or abusing double jump bug with dash

[limber cradle]

I want to learn how to do this stuff more purposefully tbh

[unique dagger]

if you want tips broski

[limber cradle]

I can sort of tell what's gonna send me flying

[unique dagger]

download solo play, solo play QOL and spawn tweaks

and the other mod that makes you immortal and shit

forgot its name

then go practice

you'll find some crazy shit

[limber cradle]

And just go learn all the trimp spots in DT?

[unique dagger]

yeah

you can check ai pathing with creature spawner

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl it almost seems worthwhile

[unique dagger]

it works inside solo play

[limber cradle]

There's defo gotta be spots where you can skip with it

[unique dagger]

I know a lot of them

but a wizard doesn't share his tricks

or some shit idk

[limber cradle]

Tbf even if you told me it's a muscle memory thing

Like climbing up mountains in forge mode

You just gotta know

[unique dagger]

I remember the one time I practiced trying to skip hab dreyko for 8 hours straight

mid section

we only had zealot back then

[limber cradle]

Idk if I ever tried to do skips

Only played vet for the longest time tbh

[compact oyster]

its funny tho

[unreal stirrup]

tony hawk pro skater

[unique dagger]

guys

you can

you can skip relay station

[limber cradle]

Hell yeah

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-gamning-tf2-tf2demoman-trimping-gif-23479023

[fast surge]

Do you mean using the ramp at the start?

[unique dagger]

you can straight up dodge without killing the eyes

you have enough dodge to get to the platform

[fast surge]

Oh

[unique dagger]

I needed a %80 mobility shivs plus alley rat plus dodge stimm

not for the first jump

you need it for the second

oh boy

speedrunners will enjoy this a lot

as the only way to skip em previously was either damage boosting / barrel boosting or zealot dash double jump skip

this also implies the existence of a much bigger skip

but I'll keep it secret for now

[compact oyster]

nice wounds

[fast surge]

If I remember correctly you used to be able to clip out of the map at the first ramp in spawn and skip virtually the whole map

[unique dagger]

wanna hear a secret

you still can

:^3

[fast surge]

Cool

[unique dagger]

martyrdom hive scum build

OH MY GOD

THE SKIP IDEA WORKS

OH NO

[wide burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-release-me-joseph-seed-gif-12887358985963630884

what blessings do i do for dual stub pistols?

[tired prairie]

I typically play Speedload, and either Desperado or Pinning Fire

[wide burrow]

wouldn't crucian roulette be better than desperado?

[bronze glade]

sustained fire and run n gun

[tired prairie]

I wouldn’t say it’s outright better but that depends on how easily you think you can upkeep Desperado

Run and Gun is also OK since the spread can get quite bad after a few shots, even with the skill that reduces it

[astral canyon]

crucian sucks on stubs

[bronze glade]

blessing options kinda suck in general

[astral canyon]

ye

[bronze glade]

but run n gun and sustained fire still your best options imo

pinning fire is dogshit

on a gun that has 0 stagger

[astral canyon]

i'd still take desperado for the extra crit chance

[bronze glade]

desperado is like all dodge stuff, very unreliable unless you have ghost

which stubs do not have

speedloader is really only good if you're running desperado ult

but desperado ult with stubs is kinda a meme tbh

run n gun and sustained fire are consistent and decently helpful so those are the winners in the mid blessing pool ime

[wide burrow]

it's how i've been doing the vulture's mark penance

[bronze glade]

it works

it's just not exactly a synergistic desperado wep

[astral canyon]

you'd be better off using something like daps, vraks or even shredder

[wide burrow]

i did 250/300 with stubs and the rest with daps

daps just kinda... feel bad

like a poorly built vraks

[bronze glade]

i don't really like daps either, but they are strong

[wide burrow]

i might have found a bug? is this a known one?

basically, i can't remove the time out talent

<@&735928989146939404> modssss

thank you mods

fellow scummers

all of the talent penances have been done

now i need to complete 22 more missions

nah, actually. 72 more missions

how do i build dual autopistols?

[vapid jungle]

I've had this happen as well in other trees too. Gotta reset the nodes around it or the whole tree.

[unique spire]

@cedar talon okay so

You seeing this?

It's Brazil

North is a jungle

We don't talk about jungle

Northeast exists

Central West have farms

Southwest is the only place that fucking matters

It's the most evolved one

And South is cold

Any questions?

@ember nymph can back me up on this one

It's all true

[cedar talon]

What happens in the jungle?

[unique spire]

Nothing

It's just a jungle

Basically theres the Floresta Amazônica there

Which is full of wildlife

Because it's protect

[astral canyon]

BRASIL MENTION

[unique spire]

Stfu

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/brazil-gif-13132310108829539533

[cedar talon]

Rude

[unique spire]

YOU ARE RUDE

Anyways

Any more questions?

[cedar talon]

THE ORIGINAL NO WAY

[cedar talon]

Can you go into the jungle?

[ember nymph]

huh

with what

[cedar talon]

Lynxiee, what are your sources?

[ember nymph]

born in brazil

[wide burrow]

me, a person from the northern hemisphere: how the fuck is the south cold?

[unique spire]

Do you want to get mugged by indigenous people or killed by wildlife

Go there

[unique spire]

Closer to the South Pole

Which makes the region coldwr

Colder

[wide burrow]

yeah that was my first through before i realized it's the other way around over there

[cedar talon]

Damn, even the wildlife mugs you

[unique spire]

Being Brazilian

[cedar talon]

I saw you change that 👁️ 👁️

[unique spire]

Make more interesting comments Painted

You are boring me

[cedar talon]

Amazon rainforest?

[unique spire]

Why is your only interest the jungle

[cedar talon]

can I get deliveries from there?

[unique spire]

No

It's a fucking jungle

[cedar talon]

Is that where Jeff Bezos lives?

[unique spire]

Who

[cedar talon]

The company called Amazon?

[unique spire]

No

I don't even think they donate to protect the rainforest

[cedar talon]

They donate to Jeff Bezos's bank account

anyway

[unique spire]

This isn't donation Painted

[cedar talon]

I know, I'm joking

[ember nymph]

Kill painted

[unique spire]

Yes

[cedar talon]

What is the Brazilian national dish

See I'm tryna engage with the culture

[ember nymph]

theres like

a lot

we have feijoada which is an historicial one

created during the early years of portugals colonization

we have feijão tropeiro

pão de queijo

caldo de feijão

coxinha, enroladinho

[cedar talon]

👀

Damn, I haven't heard of any of these

[ember nymph]

if you ever want to try any of these

i recommend feijoada

its so fucking good

fuck now this made me hungry

[cedar talon]

What's in it?

[ember nymph]

basicaly black beans, pork meat and fat

[cedar talon]

My British palette cannot identify such things

[ember nymph]

its very very good

[cedar talon]

Ohh okay

It sound good

[brittle sierra]

Black beans with bay leaves and tumeric

Say less

[ember nymph]

here this is from a recipe site i found cause im lowkey lazy to describe it

Whereas cassoulet is made with white beans and typically includes pork sausages, goose, duck, and sometimes mutton, Feijoada is made with black beans and features a variety of pork and beef products in salted, smoked, and cured form. The interplay of these meat flavors in feijoada makes it an exciting feast for the taste buds.

[ember nymph]

probably my second ever favorite food

but you know whats really goated?

Pão de Queijo
not only its good as fuck but also it was made up by my state

[cedar talon]

Oh damn

[wide burrow]

cheese bread?

[cedar talon]

Lynxiee national dish

[ember nymph]

yuh

[ember nymph]

its very tasty

[cedar talon]

Those do look good tbf...

[wide burrow]

oh my! my spanish knowledge coming in handy!

[ember nymph]

brazilians speak portuguese but spanish is slightly similar

[wide burrow]

which is why i wasn't sure, yes

i took 3 years of spanish in high school and those years are now paying dividends

it's great! i can get make sense of almost any text written in a romance language

except for french because only the emperor knows what happened there

[ember nymph]

[unique spire]

Why you showed him the worst

It isn't even that good theses foods

[astral canyon]

L take

[unique spire]

You aren't even Brazilian

[astral canyon]

fym

i am from brasil

the fuck you talking about

[ember nymph]

weak ragebait

[wide burrow]

what do you use for stimms here? full damage with finesse and something else? just that?

[jovial heron]

I go only one branch. Full into strength with the finesse bonuses

I like how often it is up and when it coincides with a rampage run

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505

[wide burrow]

i'm more so salivating at the keystone modifiers

the 50% toughness back

[unique spire]

Hur hue hur

No

It isn't rage bait

I don't like cheese bread

Pão de queijo

[jovial heron]

It’s very helpful sometimes

[astral canyon]

skill issue ngl

[vapid jungle]

Cheese and bread are 2 of the best foods...

[unique spire]

I don't like cheese

Only cheddar

Cheddar is good

I would totally eat a cheddar bread

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/apeskillissue-gif-23626718

[vapid jungle]

Cheese is a gift from the omnissiah. Don't waste it.