hivescum-class

[low harbor]

but +78%?

[mighty belfry]

mind you, this is havoc specifically

where because of how the toughness debuff works, it does actually hurt the returns from toughness curios quite a bit

[low harbor]

u end up with like what

80 toughness?

[mighty belfry]

ya

[low harbor]

kinda reasonable

in a way

+78%hp is ~214 in h40 scale

[mighty belfry]

yeah, the scaling from health is actually quite a bit better

[low harbor]

do u run +5%toughness perks or nah

[mighty belfry]

On two of em, at least for a lil' bit of help against gunners

i think it's just that this class baseline does not really have good toughness

so curios can only do so much when the value it's trying to extend is pretty small to begin with

[low harbor]

um

I'm pretty sure hive scum gets 125 (-45)

which is same as psyker

by this logic psyker should also go +78%?

and maybe even vet?

[mighty belfry]

psyker has a ton of means of sustaining toughness so it might be different there

[low harbor]

vet normally 140 (-45)

[mighty belfry]

but i actually do run 2 health 1 stam on vet

[low harbor]

with toughness perks?

[mighty belfry]

honestly, don't even know

hold up

nope

[low harbor]

95 toughness with ~175 hp

hmm

gunner resist?

[mighty belfry]

yep

and sniper

[low harbor]

why sniper

[keen sapphire]

is shock and awe good on bonesaw

or would cleave work better

[mighty belfry]

legit best blessing for it

[mighty belfry]

comfort of not having a massive chunk of my health taken off

i know technically it might not be the more "optimal" choice given with health, it doesn't really mean much for a one shot breakpoint

at the same time however, taking less health from a really big hit like that at all, that also usually bypasses toughness, is not a bad boon either

[keen sapphire]

i used to run all gunner and sniper defense

but ive gotten really good at dodging sniper

even when i do get hit it doesnt kill from full

i still run gunner p often tho

gunners fuck u up

[mighty belfry]

sniper res is there, specifically because in havoc you just cant trust not to get hit by them

[keen sapphire]

should i swap refined lethality or shred

[mighty belfry]

sometimes the cue doesn't go off. sometimes they take the shot the very instant the laser grazes you

[keen sapphire]

i think i want to keep shred

just since itll give more chem stacks

[mighty belfry]

shred is better for tox build up

ya

[low harbor]

but it doesn't change major breakpoints unless u run +78%hp and then have sniper resist

[mighty belfry]

sometimes the shot aint even for you

[mighty belfry]

it's not a matter of hitting a breakpoint. it's a matter of having more breathing room in a compromised situation

that's what i meant earlier by it maybe not being the most "optimal choice"

but it's a choice that's worked for me 🤷‍♀️

[keen sapphire]

all 3 curios having a 20% damage reduction is pretty good

can comfotrably tank a sniper shot or 2

gunners become a lot less lethal

etc

[mighty belfry]

like i'd rather have some health to spare if i take a hit like that

[low harbor]

what do u run overall
+78% hp
and what else

[keen sapphire]

aside from not being fully upgraded is this solid or insane

[mighty belfry]

(3) hp curios
(2) +5 toughness
(2) gunner resist
(1) sniper resist
(2) revive speed
(2) cdr

honestly might change the cdr though

make that even more health or another resist

or more toughness actually

[keen sapphire]

is damage dumpstat on needle pistol fine

[mighty belfry]

yes

[keen sapphire]

i dont imagine its ever meant for raw damage so

[mighty belfry]

damage does literally nothing for it

[mighty belfry]

so yeah i actually tested this

can tank two sniper shots at max stam

if rampage is active and you can keep a decent amount of stamina, that goes up to three sniper shots lol

this also means poxbursters aren't nearly as troublesome

[low harbor]

health meta on every class?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[mighty belfry]

i'ma be real

it may be worth considering

[low harbor]

kinda yea

I always liked hp

[mighty belfry]

rn the stuff that really gets you in games

if you're really playing your butt off

is the stuff you cant control, and a lot of that stuff also just happens to not care about your toughness

well, not can't "control" but more like the stuff that can catch you offguard the most

plus, there's also pox gas

which will drain your toughness

and does it quickly regardless of how much you have

just be more mindful of ranged pressure and honestly it's pretty comfy

[low harbor]

Hmm

[mighty belfry]

i think someone called it an anti-bs setup

and honestly i can see why they'd say that

[low harbor]

+78% health
+15% toughness
2x gunner

What for last

[mighty belfry]

honestly for hive scum

actually

might consider stamina regen

just to keep hive city brawler as consistent as possible

[low harbor]

I’m thinking for all classes atm

[mighty belfry]

honestly it probably depends on the class

hmm

i mean cdr would be good as a fill in for most abilities

[low harbor]

Does it really

[keen sapphire]

yea

i dont think vet would really benefit from all hp

considering it has tons of toughness talents

[low harbor]

I’m not so sure

Vet is highest toughness replenishing but not nearly as high toughness DR as people like to think

[keen sapphire]

ok but if the toughness is always full nothing can really hurt you

and more toughness means more damage it can take

whereas health is just health

[mighty belfry]

that's incorrect

that's exactly why i've been changing my tune on toughness maxxing

poxbursters dont care

[keen sapphire]

yeah bursters and everything but

[mighty belfry]

snipers dont care

[keen sapphire]

how often do u die to them

i literally never die to bursters or snipers

i can play the entire mission at like 10hp because the toughness just keeps me invincible

like toughness is a major thing of vet

if u dont build it ur gonna lose out on all those benefits

[low harbor]

The real question is, how low toughness is too low for vet’s replenishment to keep up vs ranged

[keen sapphire]

anything below like

120

ideally u want 150+

on my vet i have like 230 or smth

[low harbor]

lol that’s kinda overkill

[keen sapphire]

yea but it does let me just do whatever i want without dying

unless i do something stupid

[low harbor]

And for havoc you’re never getting that number anyway

[bronze glade]

some how, i seriously doubt that

[keen sapphire]

idk just listen for sniper and dodge red laser

like i get hit by snipers and bursters occasionally

but the last time i died to one was like a week ago

[mighty belfry]

yes, when they behave properly

that tends to start happening less often in higher difficulties

[flat mist]

But what is killing you then? The comparison is needed to make any meaningful statement

[keen sapphire]

usually like silent crushers or ragers

i die to ragers a lot

specifically te maniac ones

scab ragers are whatever

[low harbor]

Uh

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-the-train-thomas-thomas-the-tank-engine-thomas-and-friends-ishowspeed-gif-7297322352901128995

[keen sapphire]

idk u get 2 or 3 at once and it can really fuck you up

[flat mist]

Probably a good idea to run less toughness so you have to practice harder against ragers then eh

[keen sapphire]

also depends on what im running

some of my loadouts are better for it than others

i usually try and avoid melee with them though

however

i am learning to fight them better as hiver

mainly by block into push attack with bonesaw

[low harbor]

Nimble + jittery op

[keen sapphire]

yea im running it

i got the shmovement down pretty well

[mighty belfry]

honestly ragers have become a non-issue for me on this class with the build i usually run lol

[keen sapphire]

ragers are like the only thing that consistently fuck me up regardless of class

[bronze glade]

best sprint speed talents in the game

[keen sapphire]

they can go crazy style

[mighty belfry]

squared up with over 30 ragers in the middle of a massive surge in h40 and somehow got out with zero health loss

hypercrit

is a very balanced talent

[low harbor]

Rager is only notably challenging in solo/duo where u have fewer resources to reset mixed horde

With 3-4 people it’s pretty easy to manipulate their slots to animation lock them

[keen sapphire]

yea i dont usually have issues if im with the team

but if im solo and theres like 4+ ragers i will probably die

3 is a maybe

[low harbor]

Practice with creature spawner

[keen sapphire]

is that mod

[low harbor]

Yea

[keen sapphire]

im vaniller still

im avoiding modding because i dont actually care that much

[low harbor]

Most mods are basic QoL that should have been base game

[keen sapphire]

havoc 40 hud or whatever

[low harbor]

That one not needed

More basic ones like

Recolor stim UI icon to match its function

[keen sapphire]

thats just the one i see people talk about all the time

i do want a better stimm refill icon

[low harbor]

Add explosion radius indicator to enemies and barrels

[keen sapphire]

its so hard to tell the color difference

like 0.5 brightness change

[keen sapphire]

ive just learned this from playing

[low harbor]

Disable abilities’ FOV modifiers

[keen sapphire]

how many abilities actually affect fov

ik mrksman does but i like that

helps for range

[low harbor]

Like 5 or 6? lol

[low harbor]

Inspect people from social menu

[low harbor]

See your attacks’ crit chance

[low harbor]

See item shop for all classes at the same time

List goes on

[keen sapphire]

yea one i do want is like

better menu so i can acess shop and upgrades etc

[low harbor]

Get mods then lol

[keen sapphire]

i dont care enough yet still

eventually i might

[low harbor]

It takes <2 minutes to set up

[keen sapphire]

i assume most hivers know but stacking stimm with stimm pack is crazy

if you can get it to work anyways

[keen sapphire]

hmm

is mobility or damage more important on the bonesaw

i think it wouldnt be good to lack damage

unlike the needle

[flat mist]

If you're going to dump stat something other than mobility you pick the crit modifier

Its just 1.2% crit chance that you lose

[keen sapphire]

i will say

bonesaw dodge/stamina build is pretty fun

and also needle pistol is so OP

[muted pivot]

The bonesaw actually hits hard enough to kill things

[manic wolf]

Bonesaw feels miserable to play tho

[calm aurora]

feels like sawing you bones

[valid moat]

got some questions about the needle pistol, what are the two colours yellow and blue mean?

[rotund agate]

I thought finesse was the dump on bonesaw?

[spice cloud]

Hell naw

[rough sun]

i don't even own hivescum but finesse is NEVER a dump stat

[spice cloud]

Dump mob on the saw tho

Crit is nice

Especially with chem dep

[exotic temple]

Depends on mark

[valid moat]

mark?

[exotic temple]

If it’s the 2 the blue spreads toxin when the enemy dies if it’s the 6 they pop like a blinder on death

[valid moat]

oh, kinda missed that

so mk2 is for crowd control and mk6 is for taking out pain in the butt targets so thats about it?

[high mirage]

Not really, both are crowd control but the 2 applies less stacks per shot whilst having a better CC option

Both secondary fires need the target to die to pop their effect

[high mirage]

Run the 2

Do yellow mode for priority targets (crushers, bosses, ragers) blue for crowds

[valid moat]

so mk2 is the best option?

[high mirage]

Thats the general consensus

[valid moat]

?

[high mirage]

It's better

[valid moat]

fair enough

[bronze glade]

Nah

[bronze glade]

6 is good too

If you never need the alt fire you might as well use 6

[valid moat]

i dont know which is better, its very conflicting

[bronze glade]

6 if you just care about primary fire

2 if you want to use alt fire which is tox spread

6 has alt fire but it’s useless

[valid moat]

i'll just stick with 6 for now on sense the bone saw and chem grenades is suited for crowd control

[bronze glade]

The primary fire gives extra stacks on crit or headshot

[valid moat]

and also you'll need speed for melee attacks

[dusk elm]

does the stimm duration from long lasting node affect the stimm supply drop effects?

working with fast acting or purely just from injecting?

[civic smelt]

What is the usual modus operandi for the Bone Saw - light spam into horde, heavies into elites? Do we use the weapon special?

[unique spire]

Do we tell him about combos?

[warm axle]

lights and push attacks, grimmace shake mode for bosses with team

[civic smelt]

I assume light and push for both hordes/elite then? Building tox stacks on elites is quite fast this way I can see

[bronze glade]

honestly could just light spam most enemies

but against hordes light spam is def the best choice

using PA or heavies hurts horde clear

10/10 weapon design

[warm axle]

it applies the most broken dot in the game, who cares if the weapon is good

[bronze glade]

i care

weapon feels like shit to use

[warm axle]

theres other axes homie

[bronze glade]

bonesaw is an axe? TIL

[warm axle]

its like... an axe?

but with teeth?

[glossy niche]

A saw is not an axe

It's a saw

[limber cradle]

A bonesaw infact

[warm axle]

okay but what is a saw but not a toothy axe

[glossy niche]

A serrated cleaver

[warm axle]

chopper with extra tiny choppers

[limber cradle]

I feel bad for any saw you come into possession of if you're using em like an axe

[glossy niche]

Saws are used for slicing, not chopping

[bronze glade]

you could almost say

[warm axle]

ive been telling brunt how we use chain axes he has not been happy

[bronze glade]

that saws are used for sawing

[glossy niche]

I wish they'd buff the braced autogun

It's so sad

[warm axle]

i have accepted they like to have bait weapons in the game as a hazing test for new players

the emperor is testing us

[glossy niche]

I feel like a lot of the all-class weapons are just sorta weak in general

[muted pivot]

A lot of the specifics too, tbh. Crowbar and stubs aren't anything to write home about

Thunder hammers are a joke atm

[bronze glade]

they really should've as part of HIV release

[muted pivot]

Voidstrike is weak

Illisi is weak today

[civic smelt]

Thanks for the above btw - if you are going for an off the shelf rampage build, which would be the most recommendable weapon? I have seen ppl running saw but also crowbar, knife and devils claw

[astral canyon]

rashad combat axe

[muted pivot]

I do well with shivs 1, tac axe 7 and heavy sword 9 so far

But I think almost any melee can be forced to work

[glossy niche]

When did that happen?

[limber cradle]

never ime

well

only when rot armor is around

otherwise they do their gimmick of one shotting things very well and its a good gimmick

[glossy niche]

Yea I was gonna say I thought they were great at that

Idk I feel like most of the original bullet guns that have been around since launch have always kinda struggled

With like a couple exceptions like revolvers or whatever

[limber cradle]

the vraks specifically is stupidly good

agri combat shotgun is good and the other combat shottys have niches

aim revolver is good

[glossy niche]

The combat shotguns main fire just feel kinda weak but otherwise I like them

[glossy niche]

I love the quickshot one

[muted pivot]

Main fire is kind of a follow up if you don't have time to load another special shell

Vraks IAG is still the gold standard for DPS finesse guns

If you want to kill a whole corridor of flak-or-below nothing beats it

[astral canyon]

hydrogen bomb

[obtuse ruin]

So for a dumbass who just got hivescum and wanted to plan a build for scum when I level them up. How bad did i do? i wanna use as many drugs as possible... And a bazooka

[astral canyon]

not taking nimble is a big mistake

not taking fast acting on box is an even bigger one

straight up mandatory node for the ability to function at all

[limber cradle]

bro hit every talent but nimble

[obtuse ruin]

Which one's nimble?

[leaden fable]

The one you nimbly avoided in the center

[astral canyon]

middle

[obtuse ruin]

Heh. I see what you did there. But fair enough then, s'there any glaring talent i could give up for it?

[astral canyon]

regained posture, blessed stimms, coated weaponry, toxin mania, pocket toxin, slippery customer

[leaden fable]

Probably the node just below the aura to the left of the stimm refresh one imo

[astral canyon]

also i think you didnt take the crit chance node on chem dep which is also not a good idea

its pretty much the entire reason you take the keystone

what weapons are you going to use?

[obtuse ruin]

I was hoping shivs and needle gun

[limber cradle]

how often are you sliding to want the slide perk?

is the wording on that still fucked?

[obtuse ruin]

I also managed to somehow, as my first weapon drop on scum, get a 76% shiv

I do have the better perk descriptions mod so who knows

[obtuse ruin]

Sprint to slide is my main way of moving so I'd say a lot

[limber cradle]

in combat?

in combat is where that matters

[obtuse ruin]

If I have to move from one cluster to the next? Yes.

I also know I have a bad habit of sliding trying to escape a combat situation

[limber cradle]

if you use it you use it, yk?

[river skiff]

[obtuse ruin]

Yea

So this then? Any better?

[astral canyon]

take the toughness boost instead of blessed stimms

and replace pocket toxin with hypercrit

[nova valley]

Fast acting is a must, but nimble? Dunno man, why?

[astral canyon]

its strong

this is a class that is heavily reliant on dodges so making your dodges better is a no-brainer

[astral canyon]

also replace coated weaponry with sweet spot

[obtuse ruin]

so this?

also on the shivs and needle pistol, what'd I be looking at for perks and blessings?

[astral canyon]

shivs are riposte and either precog or uncanny and needle is stripped down and run n gun

[obtuse ruin]

and what am I looking at for dump stat on the needle pistol? As I absolutely will be using my 76% shivs as it's too amusing I got them as my very first weapon for scum

[livid raven]

you start with 76% shivs

[obtuse ruin]

well no, they're my first drop. As in my potential

[livid raven]

but you start with them when you make a new character

[obtuse ruin]

I didn't, mine were 73 and 78%s on stats

[astral canyon]

damage

[obtuse ruin]

damage, how so?

[astral canyon]

doesnt affect the DoT

[obtuse ruin]

fair enough. And marks?

[muted pivot]

Usually the 2

[astral canyon]

doesnt really matter tbh

[muted pivot]

Better special needle

If you care about that

More sample collector synergy

[astral canyon]

i dont even bother with blue mode

[bronze glade]

Your pick

[muted pivot]

If you never use blue mode 6 is a bit better

I like spamming blues at distant blobs

[astral canyon]

if i wanted to shoot at blobs i'd go with a desperado setup

[muted pivot]

I just love my sample collector triggers

I could probably just take coated weaponry for that though

[edgy saddle]

Ngl I wanna like melee hivescum but I dont see a reason to play melee scum when ranged scum is absolutly disgusting

[leaden fable]

Holding click is boring, melee is more engaging

cuts to shiv gameplay and it's just m1 click spam

[edgy saddle]

I was about to say lmao

Tbh I think i would like it more if the crowbar mode switch was more fluid and the heavy attacks on the weapon where swapped

[bronze glade]

Melee is very good tbf

But ranged is outright broken

[edgy saddle]

Tbh ye I admit that its by no means bad needs qol improvemts on certain weapons mainly the crowbar

[bronze glade]

Yeah cbar is pretty sad

[limber cradle]

shiv throws feel amazing tho tbf

[edgy saddle]

Like I love the bone saw the shiv are good just boring

[limber cradle]

idk i use shivs and .45s

[leaden fable]

Mk3 shiv is more interesting to use imo

Push attack follow up heavy goes hard

[sturdy linden]

Boxcutter superiority

[bronze glade]

Me just light spamming everything with all the attack 50 percent bonus attack speed

[leaden fable]

Especially with rending on this does kinda work

But I still prefer the pa heavy for crushers and bulwarks

The looped heavy on mk3 feels weird to me though, I'm still not sure what that's the best for since light spam seems to handle mixed horde just fine

If I don't use it I may as well be using the mk1 afaik

[mighty belfry]

Melee scum is across the board way better for armored elites

Unless it's ranged needle scum

[limber cradle]

which is a melee build with pickpocket lol

[mighty belfry]

You may think this is crazy

But desperado needler is also stupidly good

And stimm crate for obv reasons

[limber cradle]

no im aware it is

[mighty belfry]

Legit can never pull-out melee and you're fine with that setup

[limber cradle]

ik, its also just

not fun at all ime

[mighty belfry]

Agreed

[edgy saddle]

Tbh you melt everything thats not a crusher and crushers can still be handled with the shiv+ rocket launcher since you have better horder clear winning then down imo

Also being in dodge for 70% of the match helps with survivability

[mighty belfry]

Ranged scum can do that safely. Melee scum does it faster.

I prefer the speed of it if I'll be real

[limber cradle]

i prefer the speed and the risk vs reward

more dopamine

[bronze glade]

Yeah I don’t like the looped heavy

[mighty belfry]

But I also know ranged scum overall is just better because its completely safe

Which admittedly, I really don't think it should be as safe and strong as it is.

[edgy saddle]

Tbh I still play wild with ranged scum probably moreso than normal with vultures mark and desperado allowing me to make plays I should not be living

[limber cradle]

we know

we've been there lol

i like ranged scum but tbh burnt myself out of it

[verbal dew]

popping a stim and melting a horde with HC shivs does scratch a very nice itch

[mighty belfry]

This class lets you make plays you shouldn't be living through regardless of setup tbh

Ranged scum is just the most egregious case of that.

[limber cradle]

tbh i like the movement involved on melee scum

[edgy saddle]

Ngl I feel like its made that strong with the express knowledge that players are gonna dive in headfirst and play them like a melee with extra reach

[limber cradle]

you instant transmission around and swing fast as fuck

[verbal dew]

crate is def my preferred ability atp, regardles of melee or ranged focused

[edgy saddle]

Crate is mine when I use bone saw it just feels right

Although I admit I like making crate bomb builds

[verbal dew]

I haven't gotten back to bone saw since I leveled it

[mighty belfry]

Rampage my favorite, even if I don't agree with its recent buff tbh

[edgy saddle]

Its good for everything not crushers

[limber cradle]

I only agree with it cause SG exists

It is also my favorite tho

Has less identity now however

[edgy saddle]

Idk it feels right to me like nobody else gets a massive debuff for useing their abality and makes useing it hard for newer players on a class that is already a skill check in itself

[verbal dew]

crate allows me to think less as well, since I don't have to worry about when to pop stim

[limber cradle]

I hate any ability that boils down to "stand in x area"

I don't even really like bubble, it's just the most usable one of that variety

[verbal dew]

well yeah I always use fast acting stimms

and I agree with the stand in x area

bubble does have the advantage of being able to direct your teammates

[edgy saddle]

Tbh i use a mod for auto stimm in combat for hivescum bc I cannot for the life of me remember to activate it on my own

[limber cradle]

Hard agreed lol

[verbal dew]

and you can place it further ahead

[limber cradle]

Very visible

And people have been conditioned to use it

[verbal dew]

technically you can throw the nuncio

[limber cradle]

Less visible/less tangible benefits for people i think

[verbal dew]

yes def

[edgy saddle]

I always see people pile into nuncio bc it yells at them

[verbal dew]

like even if I'm not that likely to use nuncio on arbites, I never use castigator

[young fractal]

can anyone explain explode mode for the needle gun to me? is it just used for the stagger

[edgy saddle]

Like they never notice it until it awoogas

[young fractal]

awesome thanks

[verbal dew]

I do wish crate wouldn't last so short when you do fast acting stims

because I have to try to time it with teammates

assuming we're all nearby

[astral canyon]

Its actually a good thing that it lasts for only 5 seconds

Since it means the cooldown for both it and the stimm starts much earlier

[zenith fern]

If no teammate uses the crate, more for me

[obtuse ruin]

so mayybe a dumb question but how does the stim lab work?

specifically what does viscosity do?

[verbal dew]

you can hit H on the stimm lab page for more info

more viscosity just means more powerful effects at the cost of a longer cooldown

[obtuse ruin]

ah, ok. Thanks.

I did read the lil help tutorial but it wasn't entirely clear on what viscosity did

[verbal dew]

yeah the percentages is mostly only relevant for penances

[obtuse ruin]

good to know

also, while I'm waiting for the needle gun. What do I use on the pistols?

[wraith robin]

Hey

Even this description is still ambiguous - does it count who kills the enemy, or not?

does it have to be the hive scum player that applied toxin?

[woeful hill]

If you kill enemy with melee attack

Not if an enemy dies with a melee attack

Uhhh

Probably any tox

But you need to get the melee kill

Like soul stealer on psyker

[wraith robin]

So anybody can kill a mob with my tox stacks with melee - and I'll be healed? Are we sure about it?

usually kuli's guides is the source of definitive answer on such quesitons, but not this time..

[woeful hill]

If an enemy is toxed is killed by you with a melee attack you get the toughess

The tox can be from anyone

But you need to get the melee kill

Makes more sense?

[wraith robin]

Then it's not like Psyker's Soulstealer? With Soulstealer anybody can kill your SB-induced mob and you get the toughness

[woeful hill]

Apologies for the confusion

I meant soul drinker

[wraith robin]

Yea, me too 🙂

[woeful hill]

Oh, I see

[wraith robin]

afaicr Souldrinker doesn't care who kills the mob, can be any player

[woeful hill]

I stand corrected

Then since it's not addressed in the scum talent then it's by you only

If not then i'm sure Kuli can correct that

[vapid jungle]

That wording has always been confusing to me

I guess its with vs by

[mighty belfry]

@low harbor tested with both rampage and stamina up for full hive city dr

can take four poxbursters

h40 mind u

[marble seal]

I might actually take sniper res

I been going 5% tough gunner and res speed on all curios

[woeful hill]

Corruption res, dog res, mutant res all 3 for me

I ain't ever getting caught lacking

[marble seal]

At this point mutant res would do me good

[low harbor]

poxburster dmg is same

[marble seal]

I love getting grabbed by mutie at 30% toughness

[mighty belfry]

but health's different

[marble seal]

And pounded into oblivion

Pause

[mighty belfry]

188

because trying to get 3 21% curios in this game is basically winning the lottery

[marble seal]

I’m gonna take all the gunner res off and hire a Chinese guy to follow me around with smoke grenades

[tender marten]

remember when nurgle blessed muties would pound u to death

that was fun

[low harbor]

yea u lose ~50 smth health

[glossy niche]

Why a chinese guy specifically

[tranquil berry]

Sun Tzu wrote about smoke bombs in "the art of war". Ever since then, chinese smoke throwers have been the traditional choice for the discerning smoke bomb enthusiast

[mighty belfry]

Tried it for goofs

Turns out I was onto something

Shred and hammerblow on D claw is not bade at all

[bronze glade]

Cursed

[mighty belfry]

It's cursed.

But it actually works lmao

Ragers legit couldn't get their combos off on me because I'd just stagger them before it could happen

And even if they managed to, parry

It's shockingly safe

Even crushers will stagger when you hit em enough

And it doesn't even seem like it takes that much to do it

[bronze glade]

That’s pretty funny

[mighty belfry]

And the funny thing is

I hadn't even considered this

[bronze glade]

Shred is the main blessing I care about on Dclaw anyway

[mighty belfry]

It's a decent fill in for wrath actually

Since staggering decreases hitmass anyway

Shit cheap shots might actually work with this thing

[tender marten]

i frequently forget this

[mighty belfry]

I forgot about that too

Until I noticed this thing just melting through hordes like it had wrath when I deliberately switched that out to try it

In practice, you rarely notice a difference honestly

Especially since rampage has the cleave node

[keen sapphire]

man dual pistol desperado crit build is so strong

[bronze glade]

That’s just desperado generally lol

[strange acorn]

well that's just disappointing

I realized after purchasing that it's "hive SCUM".

[low harbor]

Stagger >>>>> cleave

[zenith pagoda]

Stagger cleave

[astral canyon]

Steve

[tardy cedar]

Why didn't Hive Scum get more interesting weapons (esp melee)

they could have brought things in from the Necromunda armoury

[limber cradle]

If they got munda weapons the class would be even more insane

But god I'd kill for some plasma pistols

[vagrant fiber]

Should I buy scum 🤔

[dull dagger]

Only if you like fun

[limber cradle]

I like the class

Will you? Idk. Probably.

[dull dagger]

Zooming around, melting enemies stabbing everyone or creating a bullet hell for enemies. It's fun, but can't take hits

[tardy cedar]

plasma pistol for scum and veteran would be nice

[limber cradle]

Nah

Plural

Wanna be this fuck lol

[tardy cedar]

I wanna be this guy

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ortruum_8-8

[dull dagger]

Halfway there

[sturdy linden]

[mighty belfry]

hmm

i think the dclaw mk7 might actually be my favorite rampage weapon now

[unreal stirrup]

channeled aggression buff moment

[mighty belfry]

funny thing, i'm not even using channeled aggression

[keen sapphire]

how good is it for armor

i run dclaw for basically only hordeclear

[mighty belfry]

i was running it with coated and doing push attack light light

it's actually not bad when you have a lot of crit chance

[proven rain]

need help

whats the difference between these two Needle Pistols?

which has the best DOT?

[woeful hill]

Check pins

[proven rain]

thanks

🫡

[young pond]

What stimm lab are people using on support scum now

[worn portal]

whats an alternative to needle pistol on melee scum? or is it just that dominant?

Is there a close 2nd?

[lavish bronze]

i mean

revolver bistol dual pistols

all good options

all depends on melee you use

[worn portal]

currently doing aoe bistol with rng and prox with combat knife

[lavish bronze]

i use crowbar so

[warm axle]

had some fun with an agri shotty today, it’s a beast.

[lavish bronze]

cool

its even better on veteran

[worn portal]

hmmm this isnt working, its just kinda crap vs monstrosities

[mighty belfry]

i mean

you do have a melee weapon that's good for bosses

[worn portal]

i do ok vs plague ogryns. great vs captains

kinda struggle vs burgles and spawns. not getting swipes in between their attacks frequently enough and getting vored or knockbacked frequently. The short range is frustrating

[plush void]

Full cooldown + strength with rending or CC or Finesse

[worn portal]

bellow is intersting. It doesnt knock a lot of things to their ass

the aoe feels pretty small

[warm axle]

i dont use the bellow, plenty of other valuable spots to put points in.
also just generally tired of another aoe push ability…

theyre so strong, glad you can opt in if ya like for this one.

[worn portal]

do different weapons or classes have different stock crit chance? whats knife on level 1 scum?

[keen sapphire]

i was using it and it seemed really only effective at either
A. getting a dog off you if it lands its pounce
B. knocking back a bunch of crushers/ragers/maulers etc

so it can be helpful but its pretty uncommon that it actually does much

[keen sapphire]

ik weapons have different crit chance

idk if classes have base crit chance but they probably do

[low harbor]

Psyker and arb 7.5%
Zealot 5%
Veteran and hive scum 10%
Ogryn 2.5%

[keen sapphire]

finesse is crit chance i think

[worn portal]

oh

[muted pivot]

With the box? Using that and bonesaw, I'm taking strength/crit and toughness

[low harbor]

Most melee weapons have +0% crit chance

[muted pivot]

Finesse is crit and weakspot damage

not chance

crit chance is crit chance

[low harbor]

Most ranged attacks have +5% crit chance (there’re exceptions)

[keen sapphire]

someone said chance and i didnt have a way to check so

coulda searched but meh

[low harbor]

Check my guide pinned in vet chat for more info

Or get the show crit chance mod and it’ll just display it for u lol

[worn portal]

i know float is good, but i already have riposte and crit stim for +35

[keen sapphire]

also

is a single +2 stamina curios even worth running

[low harbor]

Yea still take float

[worn portal]

really want more ranged damage so i can hit specialist break points

[keen sapphire]

i mean

if you just want easy killing of elites/specialists/bosses

[worn portal]

might get revolver

instead of trying to get in your face

[keen sapphire]

just use mk6 needle gun

[keen sapphire]

on yellow

[worn portal]

and we go back to needle gun hahaa

[keen sapphire]

4 shots kills a crusher in auric

its insanely op

[low harbor]

Hive scum ranged isn’t rly about breakpoints

[worn portal]

it started here

[keen sapphire]

hive scum ranged is amount of bullets imo

i like dual pistols

[muted pivot]

what weapons are you using that care about breakpoints

[worn portal]

infantry autogun even on melee scum might not be bad

[low harbor]

Boltpistol / dual 1911s

Revolver also good

[keen sapphire]

autoguns arent really bad in any way

[muted pivot]

we spew bullets like a firehose

[worn portal]

currently using bolt pistol

[muted pivot]

ok bolt pistol is different lol

[keen sapphire]

but yeah ranged as hive is more about amount of bullets

[low harbor]

Boltpistol needs really hefty investment to reach 1 tap

[worn portal]

with in your face, i can 1-shot a trapper. But this is on auric not havoc

[low harbor]

U should just treat it as a 2 shot kill gun

[keen sapphire]

bolt pistol is kinda just mid

[low harbor]

And boltpistol’s main value is lethal proximity

[keen sapphire]

i would recommend spearhead over it

if you dont want the boom

[worn portal]

spearhead?

[keen sapphire]

er

does scum get it

i forgor

[low harbor]

Boltpistol is the worst designed ranged weapon in the game

[worn portal]

negatory

[low harbor]

No

[keen sapphire]

anyways

dual pistols are really good

tho

[worn portal]

i wish ammo jack gave revolver 7 shots

[low harbor]

Dual 1911s are also super mid

[keen sapphire]

you want chem grenade or rpg for crushers and such

[low harbor]

But

They don’t get affected by suppression

[keen sapphire]

nuh uh

[low harbor]

And you basically forget about breakpoints with them

And they have effectively built-in deadly accurate

[low harbor]

Yea they can use some help

[muted pivot]

I heard we do well with the bolt pistol 6 on despy

[keen sapphire]

i was running dual 1911 desperado with all the ranged perks and its hella good

infinite ammo, pretty high damage, insane collateral

shred entire hordes of enemies in literal seconds

and not just horde

like special/elite hordes

save for mauler and crushers

the armor stops most of it

thyats what the rpgs for

[worn portal]

infantry autogun it is. Figure with in your face, 50% crit or so, sticky hands, and pick pocket - its still gonna do work

[keen sapphire]

yea

its not a bad choice

[low harbor]

U don’t need in your face for melee builds

[keen sapphire]

also yeah tbf

if ur melee build its not really worth

[worn portal]

you recommend batterying strike even with knife?

[keen sapphire]

since youd probably keep ranged at range

and melee at close

[worn portal]

or quick and deadly?

[verbal dew]

just bodyshot maulers, they go down in just a few shots

[keen sapphire]

q&d over battery def

tho

what melee

[worn portal]

rampage + chem dep

[keen sapphire]

bonesaw?

[verbal dew]

they said knife

[keen sapphire]

oh yea

anyways yeah dont do battery

cleave isnt really good on knife since that isnt what its for anyways

[worn portal]

got it

[mighty belfry]

not entirely accurate

mk6 knife actually does like having cleave

also

https://gyazo.com/f504e035be8d586b3315cfdaa6447521

ya devil's claw is funny

this should not be as good as it is

[verbal dew]

I should try scum DC, what mark and combos are the best?

[mighty belfry]

i can give you the setup i ran for this h40 if ya want

it's

honestly possibly not optimized?

but it's clearly working out so

[verbal dew]

ye idm testing stuff out myself

[mighty belfry]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a11fe48b-dc4b-4c3c-94fa-07dcf94bc769/devils-claw-why-does-this-work to clarify, it's literally the same as my shiv build for the most part in tree

i wasn't even meant to have hyperviolence

but it seems like i might have been wrong about dclaw not working too well with hv. at least the mk7 variant

[verbal dew]

thanks, does forge bellow trigger properly at the end now?

[mighty belfry]

it does

this is a surprisingly crowd controlly build

[keen sapphire]

yea i guess but its still like

such short melee range that cleave isnt nearly as effective as a longer range

[mighty belfry]

mk6's range is actually kinda deceptive

it's longer than you'd think

[keen sapphire]

felt fairly short still

[verbal dew]

what's the combos btw

[keen sapphire]

theres beter stuff regardless tho

[verbal dew]

idt I've ran DC since I mastered it really

[mighty belfry]

light spam with the occasional push for horde clear

push light light for single target

[verbal dew]

gotcha

[keen sapphire]

the mk1 or mk2 i forget the number is decent on every class

[mighty belfry]

hammerblow with that push light light will actually stop crushers in their tracks

[keen sapphire]

just good antihorde if your primary cant handle it

[verbal dew]

I ran a h40 with kuli last night and they ran desperado and point blank on their needler

it clearly did some numbers

[keen sapphire]

does it even affect tox damage

[verbal dew]

you get more dots applied on crits

[mighty belfry]

crits give extra stacks

depending on the mk

[keen sapphire]

ig but atleast from testing theres still a cap on the stacks

[mighty belfry]

yeah

doesn't mean there isn't value in getting more per shot

[verbal dew]

I forgot to check their tree tho

[mighty belfry]

esp if you don't wanna run pickpocket

because pickpocket's lame

[keen sapphire]

pickpocket us crazy since melee counts

i thought itd be ranged only

[verbal dew]

it makes more sense to be melee when you're actually able to like

pickpocket ammo

they've only buffed scum so far really, will be interesting to see if they start nerfing some stuff

[keen sapphire]

some stuff def needs it

looks at chem nade and needler

[rustic lava]

They learnt nerfing doesn't sell as well so no more nerfs unless absolutely obvious that is needed

[nova valley]

Chem nade? Lol

[keen sapphire]

chem nade is just aoe brainbust aura

[mighty belfry]

chem nade is honestly

the least concerning of the blitzes

[nova valley]

It is the less powerful blitz among the 3. That does definitely not need a nerf. Neither does the needler, as without pickpocket you end up with no ammo 3 minutes into the game. You can definitely nerf pickpocket though

[mighty belfry]

if anything, chem nade existing only incurs that immolation grenades should get a buff

[nova valley]

Now this is true

[verbal dew]

shame that needler is just so incompatible with itself and blessings

[mighty belfry]

since it's literally those but just

better

in every way

which is crazy because even with that in mind, blackouts and rockets are still generally better

[muted pivot]

Chem bomb is the weakest of 3 truly excellent blitzes

[verbal dew]

immolation grenades are cool until you forget you don't have knife equipped when you need it

[keen sapphire]

if youre shooting like every basic enemy sure

even without pickpocket or gunslinger i barely run out of ammo

because i dont just spam it on everything

[muted pivot]

Blue needle design favours spam into crowds

[nova valley]

Depends on the build of course.

[keen sapphire]

mk issue

[muted pivot]

If you're using blues, you are spamming

[keen sapphire]

i run mk6 yellow because its just free kills on tanky enemies

[muted pivot]

I mean I only spam blues because ammo is free but yeah lol

2 is just as free though

[keen sapphire]

4 shots kills a crusher on damnation

well

3 does actually

but 4 is faster

not damnation

auric

[muted pivot]

Think the 2 isn't much different

Aren't Auric and damnation enemies the same?

Just different quantities

[verbal dew]

yeah

[keen sapphire]

huh

well i wish health number displayed in mortis

meat grinder whatever

[verbal dew]

just oneshot them and you'll see what their HP was :^)

[muted pivot]

I just like the blue spam because free ammo + sample collector procs

[mighty belfry]

i don't run pickpocket out of principle tbh

gunslinger's enough for me

[muted pivot]

I'd rather give the team a good aura

and spend 1 more point on pickpocket since all my builds take hypercrit atm anyway

[keen sapphire]

i use it cause fun on dual pistol

i also dont run gunslinger yea

i want extra crit

they just need to change how it gets its ammo

either only ranged kills or only melee kills

but just kills in general is crazy

[mighty belfry]

gunslinger is a good aura though 😭

[verbal dew]

non-dots to really fuck over needler

[keen sapphire]

its good if its a mission with little ammo spawns

stares at cartel event

[mighty belfry]

it's just that pickpocket existing devalues it

[mighty belfry]

actually, that's the worst case scenario for pickpocket

[keen sapphire]

no

well

yes

[mighty belfry]

or

sorry

gunslinger

[keen sapphire]

i was saying gunslinger is good for that

i mean

maybe not personally

[mighty belfry]

idk why i said pickpocket

[keen sapphire]

but it gives your team ammo too

[mighty belfry]

but gunslinger only works if there's actual ammo pickups to use

it's not like survivalist

[keen sapphire]

yea

but it still makes it so everyone gets a little ammo

instead of just you

[verbal dew]

the only time I notice a vet isn't running survivalist is when I see them with 0 ammo in their recon lasgun

[keen sapphire]

especially useful with ogryns honestly

their shit burns ammo so fast

[verbal dew]

ogryn is either super or dogshit ammo conservative

[worn portal]

https://tenor.com/view/chika-lenny-face-eyebrow-raise-kaguya-sama-love-is-war-gif-16096785

[muted pivot]

I mean I kinda only see Gunslinger aura as shit because Pickpocket exists as a 1 point tax

and pickpocket covers so much of your team's ammo need

[worn portal]

so i have infantry autogun on my melee scum now for specialists and bosses. dumdum, unyielding+flak dmg. But that second blessing... im not sure deathspitter anymore. It has stripped down for example

but it also has sustained fire and raking fire, and if the boss just ran past me and im shooting a burgle in the back, +40%

Or hit and run since I dont have desperado. Isnt sustained fire basically a flat +20% vs bosses or anything big?

[muted pivot]

I think that you can't maintain sustained fire with sustained fire lmao

[verbal dew]

When entering shooting state, increases the damage (see values below) of the second, third and fourth shot fired; stacks additively with other damage buffs, and multiplicatively with power level buffs. The first shot and subsequent shots after the fourth do not receive the buff. The blessing is active again only after leaving the active shooting state (i.e. when weapon sway and spread have reset fully after firing).

[muted pivot]

You have to fire in 4 round bursts

[worn portal]

whattttt

you cant just... hold it down?

thats so dumb

[verbal dew]

it's incredibly not good for full auto weapons

[muted pivot]

Just another day in the imperium of man

Ain't it grand?

[verbal dew]

at least this one isn't actually that deceptive in its wording

it says its only on second, third, and forth shot tbf

[worn portal]

its just... so litearl

[verbal dew]

whenever I run vraks autogun I just go dumdum and deathspitter/raking fire

[worn portal]

just tried raking fire in meat grinding - holy moly

if burgle runs past me... go for it bud

[verbal dew]

yeah I have raking fire for a hybrid vet build with the ranged backshot talent

[worn portal]

i wanna give those backshots

[muted pivot]

I wanna love Vraks scum, but honestly I end up missing the zoomies from the DAPs

[verbal dew]

I don't like running around with desp

I feel like an idiot having to sprint a bunch just for the sake of it

and why I never run the DAPs anymore

[nova valley]

Well, you could run desp and NOT sprint around just for the sake of it

[austere coyote]

counterpoint

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[muted pivot]

You gotta be close range for the refresh triggers anyway right

So sprinting into their faces is the right play for many reasons

[nova valley]

I will agree for cool reason

And for close range if you playing some weapons

But if he goes Vracks (I wouldn't), then maybe he does not want to sprint into the enemies all the time

[muted pivot]

Vraks is still a midrange gun so you'd still be walking forwards with it at least

At close-mid it hipfires pretty well too

[nova valley]

Yeah but, at that point, I think dual or shredder feel and look cooler

[muted pivot]

Vraks is more damage strictly speaking afaik, since it has the sick finesse modifiers which works better with the rest of your kit

But DAPs have mobility and high base damage so you don't need as much crit shit

Low finesse modifiers

But sprinting while you shoot just suits us really well

Idk why you would use the single machine pistol over it though

What makes it better besides inspiring barrage that you don't need because Desperado?

[nova valley]

1st It's cool
2nd Suppresses EVERYTHING (but Crushers, for those use melee)
3rd more accurate than DAP, with similar fire rate, so if I need to hit a sniper without sprinting into a wall of meleemaniacs, I can.
4th It's very cool

Also, DAP are just uzis... And ffs, this is grim dark future. I want something that looks at least remotely sci-fi

[worn portal]

can you suppress snipers?

i find countersniping hard when its 45+m

[nova valley]

Yes. When they die, they are also suppressed

[worn portal]

but can you aim in the general direction and hipfire? the recoil on vraks means i need to hit them with the first few shots

[muted pivot]

With desperado I just let them shoot me

The power of crime deflects sniper bullets

So I'm happy to just sprint across the midfield to close distance while spraying in their general direction with my infinite ammo

[worn portal]

how to customize shredder?

[muted pivot]

Probably blaze away pinning fire

[worn portal]

what perks

[muted pivot]

Flak at least but not sure of the other

It already eats maniacs alive iirc

[worn portal]

ya flak and unyielding it is

[nova valley]

Do NOT put carapace. +25% of 0 dmg is still 0 dmg, I discovered recently...

[worn portal]

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-19495038

[muted pivot]

We do get rending from despy and possibly stimm

But even so, just shiv the crushers in the face

We don't get as much rending from despy as rampage does iirc

[nova valley]

Yeah, but it is a waste (of unlimited ammos, granted, but a waste non the less)

[muted pivot]

Waste of uptime

[nova valley]

So, melee the sh*t out of it

I, an intellectual, use the crowbar with can opener

[muted pivot]

Tempted to try that

I heard that Crowbar is only for rampage builds

[grizzled cedar]

bro the crowbar fucks

[muted pivot]

But I like the idea of it being an emergency can opener

How do you build it?

[grizzled cedar]

Idk yet but that shits fun

Staggers everything

[muted pivot]

Do you just light spam in beak mode for crushers?

[nova valley]

Bash a nobody, then can open the crusher head. He's stunlocked there (with you as well, mind it) till he dies in 2, 3 hits

[nova valley]

First hit yes, then second full power

With rotten armour instead is light x2 or x3 and then Heavy

But, I play for fun and style. I am sure there are better weapons and or combos

[worn portal]

ok shredder pretty great

esp vs maniacs

and a flashlight!!!

oh and it can sprint and shoot

[verbal dew]

yeah DC is fun with this build @mighty belfry

[verbal dew]

h30 went well too

[bronze glade]

Yeah too bad it’s actually not very good at killing things

[main trellis]

30% rending total
Enough for DAP to chew through carapace if you have to (used on H40 rotten crushers; can delete ~60% of its hp in 1 mag - not terrible for a weapon that does jack shit againts carapace)

[main trellis]

Take a swing is also an option

[worn portal]

so adren frenzy vs chem dep for melee scum... is there clear winner or kinda depends on crit vs raw unga bunga?"

[main trellis]

Depends

[worn portal]

trying crowbar atm

its very unga bunga

kinda fun

opportunist seems better than can opener since everything gets staggered

i guess exceptbosses

[rocky meteor]

guys does long lasting count to stim supply ?

[astral canyon]

no

[rocky meteor]

ok ty

[nova valley]

If you use it as melee yes. I use it only as Crusher killer

So I only need that

And of course the occasional other enemies

But I don't rely on it or plan my build around it

I love it though, and one day I might do just that

[tranquil berry]

Try bash

It's fun to maximize that hyper critical potential

[bronze glade]

not worth it

[worn portal]

not worth what

[marble seal]

For me it’s if I want more attack speed or not

[bronze glade]

dropping opportunist

[worn portal]

ive been doing can opener, superiority, 2 stam, and carapace

with adren - its just been unga bunga everything to death

[bronze glade]

can opener be kinda garbo since it only applies on special

[zenith pagoda]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ethVe-3rzFo

[nova valley]

It's a good situational ability. Again, I wouldn't pick it for a build revolving around crowbar

[bronze glade]

blessing you mean?

[nova valley]

It's just the satisfaction of immaginin that slow crusher getting picked apart by a crazed addict

[worn portal]

so how do i build crowbar

[muted pivot]

+damage to headcrabs and vent covers

[bronze glade]

opportunist superiority, rampage + adren

though no matter how you build it cbar is mid at best

[worn portal]

ya, im currently using can opener. I was thinking about switching to opportunist

whats your top 3 scum melee weapons

[bronze glade]

shiv rashad... idk what number 3 would be

maybe taxe?

[tranquil berry]

Id put taxe over the rashad personally

[sturdy linden]

Shivs, Saw (yes), Chaxe

Chaxe is pretty fucking wild lol

[bronze glade]

rashad is way stronger on a dedicated melee spec build, as usual

taxe is better on desperado build

[bronze glade]

saw in top 3

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[sturdy linden]

Haters be hatin'

[bronze glade]

i hate poorly designed weapons

and i will die on this hill

https://tenor.com/view/platoon-dramatic-gif-5903247

[sturdy linden]

I love janky unique weapons and I will live on this hill

[worn portal]

https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-teamgaovl-sword-running-swing-gif-16722760

[marble seal]

I haven’t seen Rashad perform better than taxe in h40 yet

[north crow]

is exit shout still gone from rampage, or have they fixed it

[bronze glade]

i think it's supposed to be fixed now? idk

[bronze glade]

well taxe does have better mobility, even if it comes at a large cost in damage output relative to rashad

[north crow]

rashad falls apart the moment you can't BM

so its modifier dependant

[tranquil berry]

You need a bowel movement for rashad? So it only works if you shit yourself?

[livid raven]

Braap

[main trellis]

I ain’t gonna deny the power of it but if i want to choose a latching weapon with DoT (and stagger)… i pick chainaxe (its better in everything exept horde clear cause toxin is OP)

[main trellis]

Its fixed

[bronze glade]

Good thing this is a really easy condition to meet, and it’s only relevant in horde clear

[tender marten]

clearly youve never brutal momentumd thru four plague ogryns before smh

[main trellis]

Don’t switch; you do not stagger that well to benefit from opportunist as much as you think you are
Can atleast makes for a good blessing in situations where you cannot use heavy att and want to still do dmg (+ debuff value for your team)
Superiority sadly ain’t too hot either; its a win more blessing - the moment you can’t pressure due to various circumstances its starts to drop + the bonus is too little (its like rampage blessing situation; overused & there are always better blessings to pick instead)
I use Can & Take a Swing - works best in every situation

[astral canyon]

more like can't opener

[muted pivot]

bromentum weapons don't need cleave talents, correct?

[main trellis]

We talk about HS correct?

[muted pivot]

also tac axe

[bronze glade]

Yeah

And Rashad has no cleave anyway

[muted pivot]

oh you mean hive scum or heavy sword by that?

haven't tried caxe yet actually

[lucid carbon]

do hypercrit and hyperviolence work together? If not, please explain why.

[bronze glade]

yes

though it's more like they primarily do different things

[sturdy linden]

Read from here down: #hivescum-class message

[main trellis]

HS = hive scum

[muted pivot]

Yeah, particularly the cleave talents above mid keystone

[wicked lynx]

They recently fixed the wording on that to specify you “count as dodging against X” so yeah probably

[main trellis]

If you use Rampage you never need any cleave talents that are beyond the ability modifiers themselves

[nova valley]

Alpha male

[muted pivot]

not even on shivs?

[mighty belfry]

Its really fun honestly

I wasn't expecting it to work as well either.

[verbal dew]

hammerblow is surprisingly satisfying when you knock people off their asses

[mighty belfry]

But it's kinda creeped into my favorites

Yeah Hammerblow is legit kinda carrying here

Gives devil claw a utility Hive Scum can really use

[verbal dew]

I've tried some parries at times but if it's more than like 2 ragers I just run out of stamina

[mighty belfry]

Tbh

I usually use my parries for crushers

[verbal dew]

I prob should too, the side swipes or?

[mighty belfry]

Hammerblow just staggers ragers before they can get their combos off

[mighty belfry]

Or if you know you're about to take an overhead and you don't have time or space to dodge

[verbal dew]

yeah I've mostly just backed off