hivescum-class

[lilac ermine]

Psword has mobility of brick 🤣

[manic wolf]

Even a brick has more mobility, given how its usually being propelled at mach-fuck by a cantankerous Ogryn

[lilac ermine]

Its good for holding ground and bad for kiting playstyle

Most ppls on this game like kiting playstyle

[manic wolf]

I find it makes you much more reliant on your teammates to back you up. Whilst its very strong, it has very low clutch potential

[lilac ermine]

Yes not very good at clutch but also probably better than dueling sword and shovel at preventing having to clutch

Cus team dies less when you have frontline/horde clearer in backup to flame psyker or trauma psyker

[dire badge]

if u want to clutch play adreneline rampage shivs hie scum

source? it came to me in a dream

https://tenor.com/view/burnt-peanut-side-eye-the-burnt-peanut-gif-6339277251445282356

[lilac ermine]

Gun hive scum is sometimes better at clutch

With enough space

Cus the immunity to bullets that no other clutcher has

[dire badge]

you wont get that space because if ur clutching everyone else is dead and ni havoc they'll chew ya up

[lilac ermine]

I did get 6 revive off when I had alot of space while there is 4 bosses in carnival

2 twins and chaos spawn and plague ogryn

[dire badge]

fukin props to ya idk how to manage that without rampage scream to knock em back

[manic wolf]

An that is why melee Scum and Zealot make the best frontliners. They can both prevent faliure fiestas and save them when they do happen

[lilac ermine]

The speed from the power you run across really fast after bringing them away then break the melee twins shield so he doesnt teleport on you

When chaos spawn reaches you can block a few hits while revving

If scum/zealot/vet can deal with like bosses/armor/horde good then you have good frontliner

[novel oracle]

Mk1 shovel my beloved

I wish the lights and push attacks had better cara adms so we can properly obliterate uncanny globally
Then we can run take a swing or skullcrusher on shovel with deci

[jaunty coral]

yes plsssssss

take away uncanny, up its innate adm

remove uncanny from the game

[lilac ermine]

I havent seen good shovel vets yet so maybe need a buff

[jaunty coral]

and up the ADM of all weapons to compensate a little

idk if this is a good idea

but it sounds good in my head

[novel oracle]

Ive gotten 3.4m damage in a havoc game as a shovel vet

Rotten armor

[manic wolf]

Yeah, Shovel can be cracked in good hands

As I said, best moveset in the game

[jaunty coral]

im guessing most of that wasnt from shovel tho LOL, a lot of kraks, bleed and ranged dmg ya?

[lilac ermine]

But doesnt it mean that the game took 3x as long as regular game

[novel oracle]

Lemme check

[jaunty coral]

im still not that good with it, but trying to get better. Mastering the special for saftey against groups feels like the old ds special tho, its nice

[novel oracle]

https://youtu.be/u1TPxeSgUCc

50 minutes

[compact oyster]

cole can i get your staples

https://tenor.com/view/wmster-white-monster-energy-drink-monster-energy-gif-16051569233120380956

[jaunty coral]

lol pretty sure ive watched this and modelled my doublebarrel/shovel build after yours

[novel oracle]

No theyre mine

[compact oyster]

:(

[novel oracle]

Excise vault also is a long and brutal map

[manic wolf]

Yeah its very safe with that attack, but the heavies also have decent stagger an can make a good bit of room if horde pressure gets too much

[compact oyster]

refinery delta and silo is worse

[manic wolf]

Special also staggers elites out of thier attacks so you can juggle a good number of crushers and ragers with it

[novel oracle]

Nah refinery is just unfun

Excise is longer and harder but more fun

[manic wolf]

Some do like it when its longer and harder 😏

[jaunty coral]

question, how do you manage your ammo economy with this build in havoc?
also - what do you do if its a gunner seed? Cry?

ive had a couple gunner seeds with the build, and it was A LOT less fun lol

i also struggle with ammo consumption a little, but im also often playing with randos i can't trust to feed the vet ammo

[lilac ermine]

It looks like you won mostly bc the electric psyker

[jaunty coral]

but its one of my favorite builds rn

[lilac ermine]

Who did almost as much dmg as you while electricing the whole time

[novel oracle]

That psyker is using purgatus

[jaunty coral]

i also think i dropped twinned blasts, and picked up 20% ogryn dmg, which i think is a reasonable 1 pt change.
but lets be honest, funny double grenade skill is way more fun

[lilac ermine]

Electric blitz

[novel oracle]

You can see based on the warpfire being the weight of the damage

[manic wolf]

Thats often more detrimental than helpful if they're using it all the time

[novel oracle]

Definitely more rough but just utilizing cover, letting trickle melee enemies build stacks to thin them out
Also you can spend your toughness to approach them, voc to fully restore it all and knock them down, and now you have a wide opportunity to wipe a ton out close range

[compact oyster]

refinery delta is so BORING

[novel oracle]

Youre thinking of the arbites shock mines

[lilac ermine]

Oh its arbites

[compact oyster]

i genuinely almost fell to sleep because i played it so much for havoc cosmetics

[mighty belfry]

That's not smite 😭

[novel oracle]

The shock mines definitely made it easier and inflated the ranged damage via krak density
But the melee damage with shovel doesn't lie

[mighty belfry]

Shovel is actually gud

[compact oyster]

i like shock mines

really nice area of denial

and can block doors

[novel oracle]

Im glad they finally put it at 90s which was my initial suggestion for lw mines

It was the generous one vs the conservative 120 but still

[lilac ermine]

Idk in the video it doesnt look like the shovel is doing most your dmg

Even while having it out 90%of time

But vet doesnt rlly have many options for melee

[novel oracle]

The scoreboard is at the end

[lilac ermine]

1350 melee and 1670 ranged 407 bleeding

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/woo-yeah-yeah-groovin-dance-humping-hump-gif-17375259

[lilac ermine]

Is grenades count as ranged or melee

Or its whatever your holding?

[manic wolf]

Debatable tbh

[novel oracle]

Ranged on this board

[mighty belfry]

Ranged

[novel oracle]

So the 1.6m is double barrel + kraks

[jaunty coral]

they're the fun version of smite.
Limited resource, limited area, greater effect with smart use, requires you to utilize their value during they're more limited time else things will go back just to where they were (but worse maybe) if you havent cleared (unlike smyker who can just quell and do it again 3 seconds later...and keep doing it all game)
genuinely feels like a good team addition that occasionally locks down a party-wiping horde in a good space and allows the team to pop off, rather than "turn the game off, no one has fun" it feels like "ohh the arby chose a good spot for that one"

Even tho TECHNICALLY they also turn the game off, the context above matters greatly imo

[novel oracle]

The 400k bleed is from fletchette + serrated blade

[mighty belfry]

Smite doesn't even have to be that way. It's the fact that Fatshark made it infinitely available

[compact oyster]

you can throw the mines pretty far too btw

[lilac ermine]

I like getting through missions fast without like running past all the enemies

[jaunty coral]

dude ya lol, but they still cover a limited area
but ya, they're throw range is sneaky, aim at a 45 degree angle and they sail lol

[lilac ermine]

I feel like if I use shovel the games will go from 20-30min to 50min games

[mighty belfry]

Just use it better

[novel oracle]

It was 50 min cuz it was a long map with rotten + purple

[lilac ermine]

And new player ogryn

[compact oyster]

how would you feel about the blight spreads rotten armor stims

[novel oracle]

Normal games with shovel db are in fact 20-30m and you outdamage purg psykers every time

[lilac ermine]

Oh nvm wasnt new player

[upbeat gyro]

Channeled Aggression is only for heavy hits rending?

[mighty belfry]

Taunt overrated. Embrace the Ford F-150

[novel oracle]

I wouldn't feel because id be dead on the floor with my head blown off

[compact oyster]

damn

[near mauve]

unironically true

[mighty belfry]

Like I know taunt is really strong.

[compact oyster]

i believe bullrush is what hamdol uses

[mighty belfry]

But I have been in the vicinity of very careless ogryns that have straight up managed to end runs with it so I'm legit suspicious of tauntgryns now

[compact oyster]

mass knockdown over stagger

[mighty belfry]

Hell there's only one I can really consistently trust.

[manic wolf]

Both are pretty exceptional for control tbf

[lilac ermine]

Vet gets carried by krak grenades

[main trellis]

Read the talent

[limber cradle]

Tbf man half of FS's talent descriptions are flat out wrong

I don't blame them for asking

[main trellis]

I just wish bullrush to not have a tax node to use at all

[woeful hill]

Check Kuli steam guide, short answer yes

[main trellis]

In this case; it literally says ‚Heavy Attacks’
But ye

[hardy canyon]

also im thinking the dumpstat for needle pistol is damage?
cause stopping power adds some stagger, stability is aiming, ammo is ammo, and mobility is atleast something
and the damage is pitiful anyways

[limber cradle]

Its anything but ammo or mobility

[manic wolf]

Yeah wot Tongs said

[woeful hill]

Honestly any stat is dump

Who cares about ammo when you have infinite

[limber cradle]

Yeah you can dump ammo and just take the stupid infinite ammo perk lol

[hardy canyon]

okay
well I got 2 with dumped damage

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/meditation-hippie-patrick-patrick-star-spongebob-squarepants-gif-5888486

[hardy canyon]

yah but I like to not run the infinite ammo perk from time to time

[mighty belfry]

But what if I don't want to use pickpocket?

[hardy canyon]

sometimes being casual is fun

[compact oyster]

never in any circumstance dump damage

[limber cradle]

I mean

You dump damage on a few weapons iirc

Flamer does too i believe

[compact oyster]

im gonna dump my nu-

[mighty belfry]

Nah damage is completely useless in this case

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/wmster-white-monster-energy-drink-monster-energy-gif-16051569233120380956

[limber cradle]

Only place you dump those is into crusty gymsocks buddy

[hardy canyon]

yah flamer is damage too

[compact oyster]

ts on your forehead

[hot edge]

39 min h40 duo

[limber cradle]

Nice

[mighty belfry]

Orjan we got it. You won Darktide bro 😭

[compact oyster]

what mutators

[hot edge]

hive scum auto pilot

[main trellis]

Even tho pickpocket exists so ammo don’t matter (60 vs 80 ammo only affects max ammo not the clip despite listing it does)

[limber cradle]

I would not expect pickpocket to continue existing as it does

Idk when it'll get changed

But i do expect it to happen eventually.

[compact oyster]

hopefully its nerfed to melee kills

then give hivescum a big hat

and some leather

and braced pistols

[manic wolf]

Yeah but im not gonna use that dogshit

[limber cradle]

I don't think its wildly nessecary for melee scum, I do understand the logic of "its next to HC so I'm grabbing it anyway" tho

[manic wolf]

Actually, im not gonna use either dogshit. Needle pistol is less satisfying than spilling hot coffee on ones crotch

[limber cradle]

Unironically I prefer the .45s

Mainly cause they have good feeling

[manic wolf]

Same

[astral canyon]

I dont ever bother with pickpocket on melee builds

[limber cradle]

I don't shoot enough and I run shiv anyway

[main trellis]

The class is healing

[limber cradle]

Shiv lets me have a ranged tox applicator

[main trellis]

[limber cradle]

Not nessecarily

I'm still running shiv

[astral canyon]

Nah we the statistical outliers

[manic wolf]

The class will start healing when they nuke Desperado's ranged immunity, Pickpocket and VD

[compact oyster]

i just use needle pistol if im doing melee scum

[livid raven]

they should also nuke the crate

and rampage

[limber cradle]

I use needler the same way I play psyker

[manic wolf]

Spot the salty Desperado enjoyer 😄

[limber cradle]

I want a free win

[astral canyon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1140846909314052188/1170639027079217243/attachment-3.gif

[main trellis]

Man i love tuxedo pattern

[astral canyon]

I personally find desperado fun but thats prob mostly due to my specific playstyle with it

[manic wolf]

The issue with it isnt if its fun or not, running an gunning is a fun playstyle, the issue is that its fucking braindead

[main trellis]

Those lil paws soo white like they were drenched in flour

[astral canyon]

Desperado itself is fine imo

[limber cradle]

I find desperado fun sometimes

It's like, a nice commercial break from thinking on occasion

[astral canyon]

Pickpocket and VD are far more problematic because they have 0 downtime

[jaunty coral]

i dont run it if i run dual stubs on my melee build, which ive been doing more

[brittle sierra]

Ur mom has 0 downtime 😈

[manic wolf]

I agree those things are worse, but ranged immunity is just hella unhealthy. Ranged DR? Even a lot of it is fine, but immunity, is not as it effectively removes a lot of the major threats from relevance for half the match, or more than half the match in some cases

[astral canyon]

The way i use desperado is mostly:

i see gunners
i run
i gun
i dont see gunners

[hardy canyon]

Ijust dont run it if Im not running a gun build

[jaunty coral]

https://klipy.com/gifs/mcdonalds-guns

me using desperado

not caring about gunners

"who needs to dodge?"

[main trellis]

How much would you give it? In contrast to another ability that provides dr like castration stance

[jaunty coral]

its too good/addicting on the needle pistol tho ngl lol

thing probs needs a nerf

[manic wolf]

50%, because it doesnt limit your mobility in any way

[main trellis]

Very fair i approve

[hardy canyon]

yah, I would think they should probably give it a fiarly long cooldown or something

[manic wolf]

Eunuch stance is supposed to be ultra-tanky, Desperado is supposed to focus on evasion, only it doesn't play like that, because you're not evading anything at any point as it currently is

[hardy canyon]

no, you evade all the damage
by killing everythoing you see

[livid raven]

no they aren't supposed to

[compact oyster]

procs on melee kills and only regens ammo if its under a certain %

[hardy canyon]

I was personally just thinking a 2 minute cooldown, but I an see that

[compact oyster]

cooldown wouldnt feel good

[mighty belfry]

Cooldown would be fine honestly

[calm aurora]

Only on melee kills is a good idea

[mighty belfry]

It's not like it's that hard to get a melee kill on this class even with a ranged build

[calm aurora]

That forces you to engage in melee

[limber cradle]

Genuinely I think making it salvaged and just having it proc off a melee elite kill when you're totally out of ammo is fine

[mighty belfry]

Think it needs a little more to limit it

[limber cradle]

Like just have shiv back ups and heavy melee an elite every so oftem

[compact oyster]

elite kill is too niche because your speccing into full ranged

id say bruiser kills

but with a 10 second cooldown

[jaunty coral]

idk, its kind of a good idea. forcing you to fully run out of ammo first is actually a nice limitation.
Maybe that, and add a cooldown? Like 60 seconds, so that you can't just spam certain guns

[limber cradle]

Elite kill as in any specialist enemy fwiw

[mighty belfry]

Oh don't get me wrong, proccing on a melee kill is a good start

But I don't think it's enough

[manic wolf]

It would inherently make Stubs better if it was more highly limited, and make Shredder, DAPs and IAG much less good, which i would be totally fine with

[low harbor]

90s CD, only available from melee kills

[calm aurora]

Has someone found a way to make the other shivs acceptable?

[calm aurora]

And every melee elite kill decreases the cd

[mighty belfry]

They're good on a full tox build ime

Not a full melee build

But even then, idk if I can say I prefer them.

[jaunty coral]

part of me isnt fine with it, these are styles of guns that have almost never been that good (ok IAG has been pretty good in the past, and shredder was meta for that short while early on, but they're no bolter/plasma in terms of popularity)

I LOVE that a class makes these style of guns shine, especially in havoc where their limited ammo really holds them back.

I just wish it was a bit more balanced, without ruining it.

[calm aurora]

What do you put in a full tox? Tox on crit and dmg against tox?

[low harbor]

idk if that's good

[mighty belfry]

Lights being faster is really nice.

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. With needle Pistol and the blitz is preference really

Or, bistol with proxed blackouts with pocket toxin

[calm aurora]

Shredder was meta for a full year on 3 classes tbh not a short while

[manic wolf]

The only reason Shredder isnt meta is ammo economy, which Scum just kinda doesnt have to care about

[calm aurora]

It's a mechanic to engage in melee against elites and not just dump

[low harbor]

ok then 120s base, melee elite/specialist kill reduce it by 1s each, down to 90s at minimum

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[manic wolf]

Seems fine to me

[calm aurora]

That's fine

[low harbor]

that's a bigger nerf than what I said earlier

[calm aurora]

Yeah but I don't like just nerfing for the sake of it

It's a nerf with a way to make it better

[manic wolf]

It warrants a heavy nerf because even in a state as Path outlined above, you're still effectively ammo neutral. You just have to interact with the melee systems

[compact oyster]

i think the healthiest thing is making hive scum more like bounty hunter

[calm aurora]

I still think they should have kept exhaustion on rampage and played around it

[mighty belfry]

All they needed was a stamina debuff adjustment

Not even a big one

[manic wolf]

Idk why they didnt have a subnode that was a decent effect that was only active during the debuff

Perfect opportunity for a push-pull mechanic, but alas

[mighty belfry]

Tbf that's technically the point of Forge's Bellow

But, it isn't guaranteed safety.

[upbeat gyro]

I guess i gotta accept the fact i am for now about havoc 20-25 in my skill level, atleast with random teams that are equally bad. Doesnt matter if rampage or desperado

[calm aurora]

Shout made exhaustion safe and you could use the 20% dmg from street brawler to continue killing and feeding hv...

[upbeat gyro]

Just need to reach havoc25 for the penance pants, so can then play other classes with nice outfits

[manic wolf]

Yeah kinda.. but thats also a bit of a coppout because you werent really encouraged to use the debuff duration, you were just given a large amount of relative safety

[mighty belfry]

Which

Unfortunate that FB really did lose value in general because of the buff.

[manic wolf]

Yeah, it did, though it wasnt really filling the role of encouraging your to spend the debuff time being pro-active with it. An effect where you apply Tox stacks on hit, but the debuff being 50% extra damage taken would have been great. Real risk vs reward

[calm aurora]

I still use forge bellow.. like shriek or shout. Offensively

[low harbor]

I dropped rampage stagger in favor of 6 tox blinders lolol

[upbeat gyro]

Was ingame about to press Ready for mission, if i start browser, game is more likely to crash midmission

[manic wolf]

I never took FB in the first place tbh

[calm aurora]

And it makes rezzing safer

[limber cradle]

I dropped forges awhile ago

Not for anything specific either

[main trellis]

FB makes for a nice boss melter starter

[limber cradle]

Its fine, I don't like the shout knocking over things I want to kill and the secondary shout feels useless to me

Like normally when you run out of rampage is cause you ran oit of bodies

[upbeat gyro]

Anyways dropped Rampage Hvy Rending for Tac Axe, as better just light spam crushers

[calm aurora]

Does it push dogs? I don't remember

[limber cradle]

Yes

2nd shout can unpin you which is nice qol

[manic wolf]

Not a good idea because you're nerfing your HV proc useage whilst under Rampage, particularly on TacAxe which can use its heavies on demand with zero risk of HV loss

[jaunty coral]

damn was it a full year? lol

[calm aurora]

Yeah.. until patch 13

[manic wolf]

Some setups let you one-hit Crushers with HV during Rampage with TacAxe heavies

Ditching the Rending node is one of the single worst choices in regards for that weapon

[calm aurora]

Considering taxe is pa + h1 loop...

Yeaj kinda

[jaunty coral]

was it always good tho, didnt it get buffed at one point to BE that good. Or was it that good from beta/launch? i dont remember exactly, but i dont remember it being hyper meta right at the start, it was like a while into launch, then was for a while until class rework, or was it just that strong the entire first year and i dont remember correctly?

[upbeat gyro]

I usually just spam lights on crushers and hope for crits instead now

And soften up with needler

[manic wolf]

That makes me cringe im not gona lie

[calm aurora]

It was good for one reason. Pinning fire went to 100% power instead of 25

So pinning fire + blaze away...

[upbeat gyro]

Cringe ahead, i got less than 100h ingame in last 2 years

Aint got no time to nerd this up as much as id wish

[jaunty coral]

ya i remember, it also made the bolter busted AF
was pinning fire that value from launch? or did it get buffed at one point?

my memory is just fuzzy lol

might of just taken me longer to 'discover' the shredder at launch, as we were all noobs and i wasnt like, build crafting or chatting about the game that early on

[upbeat gyro]

My total number of games played with tac axe is like 5 or 6, ever

So my usage of it isnt perfect, far from it, but find it fun

[muted pivot]

I heard TAxe7 likes to light spam despite theoretically having monotype strings

Love it on my Zealot but I have to try to do monotypes just out of tryharding lol

[drifting heron]

Taxe only light spams for singletarget

Your horde combo is pa->heavy or for mk7 heavy->light

[calm aurora]

On exec stance it was just non stop murder. On zealot you had range rending with fury and on psyker you could boost SB stacks with the power blessings...

[calm aurora]

Pinning went from 100 at launch to 25 in October 23.

Bolter was still ok but the ammo economy was quite worse.

Bolter had a hard time when they started putting more crushers, killed zealot range rending for no reason and didn't fix recoil and head priority

[manic wolf]

Nah, its not limited to any one combo route like most weapons are, you can leverage different parts of the movesets as the game demands. In fact, you're highly encouraged to with Scum because you have Hyperviolence handy basically al the time

There is nothing to gain mindlessly mashing lights into a single target when you could kill that guy in one or two heavies

[calm aurora]

Putting a special in your combo is a good idea too, the stagger is very good and quite safe against crushers.

[manic wolf]

Yeahp, and it flows into and out of every other part of the moveset

TAxes are just fuckin goated

[calm aurora]

It took like 2 years for people to realize that...

Every goated player I've seen using it since launch is a vermintide vet. Coincidence? I think not.

[astral canyon]

Didnt they get reworked at some point?

[manic wolf]

They got buffed at one point, not reworked

They were never bad either, they just had a low pickrate

[novel oracle]

They got buffed but it wasnt the biggest of buffs

It was like a .1 adm bump on heavy overhead/uppercuts and a slight base power bump for those too, movement profile changes, and special damage tweaks

[low harbor]

got like 4 small~medium buffs

and then 1.9 gave vet, zealot and psyker more dmg (psyker didn't deserve it but whatever)

[upbeat gyro]

2023 tac axe playing was when you wanted to show off your off-meta skills, atleast that was the impression i got

[jaunty coral]

this is why you need the recoil fix mod xD idk why bolter recoil feels so freaking weird. Or I just un-ads between shots but its annoying

[unreal stirrup]

recoil fix mod?

[calm aurora]

Yeah, it's doing stuff with frames

[jaunty coral]

movement profile made a HUGE difference. And the other two buffs on top pushed them from 'meh' feeling weapons with good movesets, to 'good' weapons with good movesets.
I personally think it was a pretty big change for them, in terms of how good they felt to play

[calm aurora]

Yeah they buffed players more. But they also buffed the mobs..

The only really big buff taxe had was the rework of BM

[jaunty coral]

it just removes the jankyness of the recoil from bolter, to my knowledge, doesnt remove it or anything thing still kickshttps://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/430

[novel oracle]

Yeah but the strengths of the weapon, the fact that it was good at everything, was always there

It was never meh at anything

[jaunty coral]

someone comment for me, is this a 'cheaty' mod? should i be maybe considering not using this?
I always thought it only effected the bolters weird recoil, but the mod guy has commented recently it works for all weapons.

should i take it off?

im gonna disable that mod tonight and see if inotice the difference

[zenith fern]

why does it matter, go for it

Nobody will see besides yourself

[muted pivot]

Purity of play. It's a spectrum of acceptability from scoreboard mod through weapon customisation extensions up to godmode cheats. The line is different for each of us.

[calm aurora]

You can also just use it when you play bolter

They never really fixed the recoil. We had a partial fix and a promise to fix it later.

That was 2 years ago maybe?

[jaunty coral]

exactly.
I'm willing to mod something I think is QOL, or shuold be done by the devs but isnt. But i don't want to mod things that are intended difficulty, or feel like im 'cheating' -

If recoil is "bad" and not well thought out on certain weapons, as long as im not feeling like im 'cheating' im ok modding it.
But i thought this was just for the bolter, seeing the author comment it applies to ALL weapons made me sort of purity-test myself and wonder "am i modifying every weapon in the game to be easier/less punchy feeling and dont realize it?" and it made me want to go back to pure recoil to see, since ive had it enabled for a while

[dire badge]

theo nly thing i mod is scoreboard and poxburster aoe ebcause of poxburster bug. Everything else feels ab it like cheaitng

[sturdy linden]

I use mauler/crusher cleave text, net text and pounce text from spidey sense, because this game fucks up sound cues all the god damn time

Been downed by enough pillowfoot crushers that I don't wanna deal with it anymore

Danger Zone is almost mandatory rn because of how fucked bursters are

[gray rampart]

crosshairs are still inaccurate even after the update to them back in 1.4

[low harbor]

I cope with it by using dot crosshair lmao

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[mighty belfry]

Second shout has unironically saved entire runs for me

[jaunty coral]

ya, i feel you.
I do the similar, but i def have some extras -
-scoreboard is mandatory (and should be in the base game, IMO)
-Poxburster rings - for the same reason, they feel unfair sometimes.
-Barrel rings - for the same reason, they feel unfair sometimes especially when a teammate hits them randomly
-guaranteed weapon swap + guaranteed ability activation - MUST HAVE. The servers suck, the input reading sucks, if i dont have these, i notice it immediately and die bc i pull melee out to block and nothing happens. Or I ult and have to press it 3 times.
-weapon recoil fix (reconsidering this) - I used it bc i thought the recoil on the bolter and bolt pistol sucked and was poorly designed, and they 'said' they would fix it. They never did, so i modded it.
**-Kill Counter **- this is just plain fun. I absolutely love throwing a grenade and seeing +23 pop up on the side of the screen. I have it out of the way so i don't always look at it, but i think its a satisfying and fun visual confirmation when things do get kills and how effective they were
-**healthbars **- i used them for a long time, but i recently just turned them off to go back to a more immersive experience. But feel i have to call them out because i had them on for like, 2 years lol
-and of course a few obvious ones -
improved UI, improved STIMM icons, and Warp unbound timer (bc having to count 10 seconds in combat with no indicator for when the peril immunity wears off isnt good design imo) and finally,
-buff tracker (or w/e its called lol) - the buff system in this game is designed badly, im not fighting the UI to see my buffs and then they get hidden bc i have too many...I have the important ones pinned i want to look out for

thats what i personally use

and i feel its a pretty good list of "fair" mods

some are a little unfair (healthbars, rings) IMO - and for example like i said i removed healthbars recently and its been nice going back to the cleaner game look. But those are the compromises I'm willing to make, and why with my personal trademarked Mamox Logic™

[mighty belfry]

I have been considering barrel rings if only because of every purge staff user that has barreled me

[jaunty coral]

yep, this right here lol

still happens tbh LOL

especially when they insta explode

but it helps

ive 100% avoided lethal barrels bc of it, and that may feel 'unfair' bc its modded but everyone has their threshhold

mine is dying bc my teammates arent paying attention

i just hate it lol

i also dont feel so bad about it bc honestly, it doesn't 100% stop it anyway

it just gives you a little headsup so you dont miss the barrel sizzling in the heat of the moment

and gives you more of a chance to move

[low harbor]

danger zone good

[mighty belfry]

I just wish these things were actually like

In game

And not required to have mods for them

[livid raven]

i hope that mod shows pools of fire

fire from barrels have a nasty bug

[mighty belfry]

I hate fire barrels

[livid raven]

for some arcane reason, if you get closer to the fire you stop seeing the flames on the ground

[rotund agate]

I might have had a similar thing happen with tox flamer ground-fire earlier today (idr anymore though)

[livid raven]

could be, i only saw that from barrel fire since that one sticks for much longer

[vapid jungle]

Rampage Heavy sword feels incredible

[stuck quarry]

I'm out here playing the game with no mods 😂 No major complaints

[limber cradle]

In what way

[limber cradle]

You'll develop em at some point

[stuck quarry]

Eh. I'm 150 hours in at this point and nothing has jumped out to me

[gray rampart]

Simply use crosshairs fix

[low harbor]

I'm used to dot now

[gray rampart]

😔

[novel oracle]

Theres a couple that are game changers once you try em
Guarantee ability and weapon swap for example
Basically input queuing so you dont fail to swap because you pressed the button in a tiny window when you couldnt

Prevents stuff like attempting to block after you swapped to melee only to just ADS cuz you didnt swap

[stuck quarry]

I actually use C for ping and V for weapon swap. Haven't had problems but I'll keep it in mind if I do! I mostly melee and swap for Elites / whatnot (Bolt Pistol, Shotgun, or Flamer)

[mental trellis]

the real game changer is why isn't any of the default UI Moveable.

[novel oracle]

Its definitely a "when it gets you, youll notice" thing

Like if you get hit from behind while shooting, you cant swap weapons

Cuz youre staggered

Any inputs during this window will be dropped

[limber cradle]

Tbh I run no mods to try to maintain a sort of objective view of the game

You defo notice it sometimes

You'll eventually notice silent enemies too

[novel oracle]

Tbh me and reginald are trying to get input queueing to be a toggle option in the settings

[limber cradle]

Sorry mate best we can do is another buff for SG

[limber cradle]

Psyker tasting and savoring another unjustifiable buff

[woeful hill]

2 more lines sent to gaze

look how long it already is

[limber cradle]

This stupid fucking ability man

[woeful hill]

25 sec cooldown

plus 10 sec of infinite peril

[limber cradle]

This is why I am okay with rampage losing debuff

Should it have? No

[tranquil turret]

quick question, does vulture mark trigger on chemtoxins in needle gun?

[woeful hill]

"Killing an elite or special at any distance with a ranged attack (including Boom Bringer projectile hit) or killing an elite or special who is within 12.5m to Hive Scum with the Needle Pistol dart DoT (excluding kills caused by the DoT from Needle Pistol Mk II toxin explosion) grants stacks (up to 3); stacks last for 8s and can be refreshed during active duration. Per stack, does three things:"

From Kuli's steam guide

so yes

besides aoe from mk2

[tranquil turret]

yeah not really expect AOE to kill elites or special anyway hahaa

[woeful hill]

it does with mk2

[tranquil turret]

does it stack that much though? I thought only 1-2 stacks per explosion

[woeful hill]

it can domino pretty fast depending on horde

[tranquil turret]

true that

how about vulture's push? does it work on DoT from needle?

[woeful hill]

check kuli's guide

[tranquil turret]

thanks 😄

" a radius of 3m and staggers barely anything." nvm haha

Really helpful, did not know Jittery does not recover dodge speed when you dodge slide instead of just dodge

that's one more free point haah

[woeful hill]

already good to double check with kuli

explains some hidden interactions like that

[zealous ravine]

ughh i cant believe fatshark hates psyker last patch didnt even buff scriers gaze

[mighty belfry]

Chaos spawn grabbed me while I was trying to get my teammates up. Flamer came out of nowhere ready to torch me but the shout staggered them and got me ungrabbed which gave me just enough time to get everyone up.

[limber cradle]

Yeah, I can see that

Shame your team died

Otherwise that wouldn't be a problem

We can only rely on ourselves tho

[alpine orchid]

Nothing really interesting but I've been experimenting with my curios and had this game where I lived on 1 hp lol

[true hollow]

Is the hive scum worth the dlc price?

[woeful hill]

yeah

[true hollow]

I won’t be getting around to them for a while as I wanna grind the veteran and arbites, but hivescum look realllllly cool

[woeful hill]

but know that the dlcs are just the class

[tardy cedar]

It's very fun but it doesn't feel as thought out as the Arbites

[woeful hill]

so if you still have base game stuff to do, I'd do those 1st since its possible there could be a sale

[tardy cedar]

Have you come from Vermintide 2 or started with Darktide?

[true hollow]

I unfortunately already bought the arbites class thinking there would be more then just the class lol

[true hollow]

I am a 40K head guy and know almost nothing about age of sugmar or warhammer fantasy, so I’m from darktide

[tardy cedar]

in that case it's the only class that can dual wield guns or melee

and the personalised stimm is what you get instead of Arbites' dog

[true hollow]

What is the personalized drink

Stimm

[tardy cedar]

You don't get to use stimm injectors around the map

[true hollow]

Don’t know how it autocorrected stimm to drink lol

[tardy cedar]

You have your own that you build

with 4 branches and some off-shoots

[true hollow]

I don’t really use the stims unless they’re medical anyway

[tardy cedar]

Toughness Regen, Strength, Cooldown Reduction, Melee Attack Speed

[true hollow]

Hell yeah

[tardy cedar]

If you're looking at getting it now before they nerf or modify it you'll probably get more out of it

[true hollow]

I’ve heard the hive scum is super underpowered

[tardy cedar]

Rocket launcher will probably get nerfed in future I would think

[true hollow]

All the reviews were dogging on the class so that’s why I ask

[true hollow]

rocket launcher?

[tardy cedar]

I think it depends who you ask, though I've seen people say that Scum is the second most powerful class after Psyker and potentially the most powerful depending on builds

Yeh, your blitzes are chemical AOE grenade, a screen-wipe rocket launcher with 3 (or 4 if you build it) charges

and a deployable stimm box like a team buff

[true hollow]

A rocket launcher sounds awesome

[tardy cedar]

Rocket launcher right now is more powerful / more range than Ogryn's frag bomb

and you get up to 4 charges instead of 1

so that will probably get nerfed in future

[true hollow]

I hope they nerf it to bring it in line, but not nerf it to the point it’s not fun anymore

That sounds hella fun

[tardy cedar]

A rocket can wipe out a Crusher/Bulwark/Flak elite mob

[true hollow]

Damn

[tardy cedar]

It's very fun, definitely not underpowered

but it's a very squishy class

playing on Pubs if you're not used to it you are more squishy than you realise

[true hollow]

I’m not the best at the game so I went with the arbiter first

Figured I could grind out the game, get better fundamentals and then eventually reach for the hive scum

[tardy cedar]

but like @woeful hill and some other players have builds that make the class very strong

[true hollow]

Rock on

[flat mist]

Thats not a blitz

[tardy cedar]

What's the other one ?

[flat mist]

Blackout nades

[tardy cedar]

Rocket/Grenade/

Oh

lmao

Yes sorry I forgot about those

guess my memory must have blacked out

[limber cradle]

Imagine stimm box as a blitz

[alpine orchid]

I like never use HP curios and I usually see people saying they're outdone by Toughness curios but I've been running triple HP on my Hive Scum and I don't think I've ever had a more enjoyable experience with the class

It feels very anti-BS

[tardy cedar]

It should be

[tranquil turret]

Probably worth it tbh if you don't mind the suppression and less availability of regenerating health. There's only like 3 traits for toughness damage reductions and hive scum has the lowest toughness at baseline

[keen sapphire]

is the streets of rage per 1 activation or just total of all

[alpine orchid]

Idk I've gotten used to Hive Scum enough that at some point I realized like

Everything I'm dying to at this point is just misfortune with things that ignore my toughness almost entirely

So I thought, well why not just use HP instead

And now I just have that safety net against so much

I can tank like 7 bursters in a row, I can withstand crusher overheads

Not that I'm trying to of course but y'know

[manic wolf]

I dont think, even with HP stacks, that Scum can tank a Crusher overhead ngl

[nova valley]

Opinion: Crusher overhead should also propel you into the sky like skyrim giants

[woeful hill]

Auric scaling they can

Tested with 3 toughness curio

Rampage and hive street brawler and chem depend

Which is decently practical since you need to be ulting and have stamina

[livid raven]

yeah they can in auric with only toughness

i'd imagine they can tank one with a health trinket in havoc

[tardy cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/skyrim-giant-lift-off-blast-off-low-earth-orbit-gif-13934296

[livid raven]

overheads should flatten you for the rest of the game (you are stuck at half height)

[potent sentinel]

would it be worth doing a crit bleed knife and toxin stacking build

[pulsar aspen]

Try it out?

[zenith fern]

You can do double dot scum

[river skiff]

Is there any breakpoint for ammo with shredder pistol?

I noticed it scales pretty well

Just not sure if I can build it in a way where I will still have max ammo in a mag and just slight decrease in overall ammo

[livid raven]

78% i think

[river skiff]

How many is 60%

?

80% is 56

[livid raven]

52

[river skiff]

Hm

I think I will dump ammo then

Collateral is good for triggering stagger perk

[alpine orchid]

They can

Auric Crusher overhead

[river skiff]

It cannot

Well

Not with one perk at least

I tried it

[alpine orchid]

Toughness dependent but even with 0 toughness, through Hive City Brawler and Rampage an Auric Crusher overhead caps out at 249.6 damage to me

And then with 100% toughness it does 140.4

[marble seal]

Only does noticeable dot ticks on bosses. Everything else dies too fast

[potent sentinel]

yeah i kinda assumed it would be overkill on anything that isnt taller than you

[marble seal]

The bleed was only kinda doing something on rotten armor havoc 40

[potent sentinel]

i wonder if scummer is the best at dealing with rotarm consistently

[nova valley]

When overhead hits you, your character becomes a hardcore mode one, without consent, and gets deleted

[marble seal]

It is

[potent sentinel]

without depending on boom bringer i mean

[marble seal]

Pickpocket needle can solo it

[potent sentinel]

true

[main trellis]

For shredder you dump mobility

[main trellis]

Tripple actualy

[river skiff]

I like having 80 at least in one of my weapons

[main trellis]

Unless it gives more benefits than other modifiers on weapons there is no such thing as ‚i like having 80 mob on atleast one on the weapons i use’; you move fast as it is (HS has no bad mobility weapons; he’ll always be fast & never impeted by poor mobility of a weapon cause he does not have any)

[north saddle]

Guys, i may get wifi soon after over a month of not having had wifi... Havent played darktide since january 9th.... 👀

I will shoot y'all an invite once i can (probably next week wednesday evening German time)....

[muted pivot]

it's too late, we won the war

tertium has no more heretics

rannick is throwing us a party

[river skiff]

It buys time when it matters most in clutches. If the whole mob is already on me, I can run faster toward my teammates, rescue at least one, and hope they’ve got some util to help with the rest.

I also wanna dump ammo because I’m not spamming ranged weapons - I only shoot when I see hounds or trappers. And since I’m not spamming, I won’t get much value from perks focused on that, which makes the 4 ammo difference in a mag negligible.

[main trellis]

If thats the case then its kinda fair... but then again why not use your melee to sprint instead since if a boi goes down... he most likely will be surrounded and if you were together YOU will be too close to the melee enemies & pulling ranged to sprint faster for 0.2 extra sprint speed (cause thats the difference between 60 & 80 mobility on shredder) ain't gonna give ya any meaningful advantage while taking away a potential to block on reaction or better yet; PUSH AWAY the chaf to get faster to the guy surrounded
That strategy is worth using if your melee weapon has poor mobility (which as i said; HS has none - only bad mobility weapons that this strat works very well is crusher, shields with mauls & Thammer) & you are skillful enough to quickswap on reaction & don't get punished
but its your choice; 0.2 extra sprint spd OR 40 extra max ammo & 4 extra in the mag

[sacred eagle]

The hanger they are building is to take us to the party.

[river skiff]

I meant when the whole team is dirt kissing already

[main trellis]

fair; just know that average melee on HS has 0.27 sprint spd while 60 mob shredder has 0.4
thats what you get

[river skiff]

If you run around in circles for enough of time you will get all of the agro in the area at you and then switch to shredder and use 100% stamina to get to your teammates already saved the team like twice this way

[main trellis]

or better
START KILLING THEM
...unless tons of specials behind the wall of chaf then it can be oof but then it would be better to not get shredder but a more hard hitting ranged like bolt pistol

[main trellis]

more like his basement

and considering hes from the Inquisition... that will be a one sided fun

[river skiff]

I kill like half of them in the meantime - abusing the slide mechanic I can run around them without using my stamina or get hit lol

[sacred eagle]

I imagine it would be a dweeby party if its Rannick. Like 30 minute pizza party that counts as your lunch break.

[muted pivot]

waffle party

[north saddle]

Lmao as If that stiff mf'er would ever throw a Party for anyone except himself

[north saddle]

Hed probably charge us for the pizza lol

"Well well, rejects, that makes 2500 aquillas per slice and one extra tour of duty in hab block laranax"

[nova valley]

Someone a few days ago posted a comparison with numbers, showing that nothing changes for shredder between 60-80 collateral

[main trellis]

i would not dumb collat for shredder anyways - its not just you who can apply stagger and that weapon together with DAP has 'accumulative stagger' stat in collat so more you shoot = more stagger you apply

a somewhat similar situation is flamer where ppl say to dump dmg instead of mob cause dmg only affect direct dmg... yeah but there is also 'burn intensity' stat in dmg

and you ain't never gonna sprint with flamer

(ofc shredder is nice for sprinting but you know what i mean)

[north saddle]

I prefer sprinting with my melee so i dont have to swap to parry a surprise attack behind the next corner. Although that does severely limit my melee choices.

And it makes ogryn even more Impossible to play since my favorite melee weapons on him are shield and pickaxes

[zenith pagoda]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/add-power-sword-to-zealot/118669

Idk if this is controversial or not

[astral canyon]

💀

[unique spire]

""Best" melee weapon in the game"

Dude what the fuck zealot has thunder hammer and long power sword

Which are better

[compact oyster]

class exclusive weapons wont be added to another

[zenith pagoda]

They're not

[unique spire]

They're not?

[compact oyster]

zealot will never get plasma rifle or powersword because echlesiarchy units arent fielded with them

[unique spire]

The hell you talking about

[zenith pagoda]

Ask path lol

Power sword has THE best mixed horde clear in the game

And can also deal with crushers/bosses swiftly

[astral canyon]

No lol

Powersword is genuinely top 3 melees in the game

Thammer sucks balls outside of boss killing

[echo python]

Zealots are running around one-shotting monstrosities with the relic blade while also having alright horde clear

[astral canyon]

Relic blade is pretty good tho

[zenith pagoda]

In h40 power sword swipes relic blade

[echo python]

Power Sword isn't going one-shot bosses anytime soon

[zenith pagoda]

Thammer can't 1 shot rotten crushers lol

I'm pretty sure ps kills them quicker

[astral canyon]

Power sword also has 40+ cleave if you build it right

[zenith pagoda]

And also, you're centering your whole build around 1 shotting bosses, ps just works as long as you have the right blessings

[astral canyon]

While also having vet's signature "+70% damage for just playing the game" talents

[unique spire]

Mind shattering

Still, Vet deserves it

[reef spoke]

Power sword for hive scum when?

[north saddle]

Real vets use the rashaad combat axe anyways ☕🎩

[calm aurora]

Nah real real vets use shovel

[manic wolf]

Yeup, this

Rashad is about original as using Rivers in ER

[unique spire]

Ew shovel

You guys didn't grew on the jungle

[zenith pagoda]

Shovel to dig your own grave

[sullen wagon]

What’s the difference between the two needle gun variants?

[sullen wagon]

Thank you 🙏

[muted pivot]

trouble with power sword is it feels like ass

strong but I hate it

[zenith pagoda]

Mostly because vet doesnt have stun immunity

So 1 hit makes you staggered

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-parrot-gun-pistol-hahaha-gif-12105638451324722344

[muted pivot]

activate-before-every-combo is just an awkward gimmick too

[bronze glade]

it's really awk but boy does it wreck

worth getting used to it

[verbal dew]

toxin knife is so much fun

[upbeat gyro]

How combo reliant is it?

[verbal dew]

power sword?

mk6 knife is just a bunch of push attacks

[north saddle]

Same. I hate weapons that punish poor timing.

I think the most braindead easy weapon is still the dueling sword which is why i use it when i cant be bothered to focuss

[north saddle]

💯

[zenith fern]

How do I learn this power?

[main trellis]

accatran shotgun
Melee source of bleed
Needler/crate/grenades/crits
ez

[zenith fern]

how many fire stacks doeese accatran give?

[manic wolf]

Not enough

[zenith fern]

0.5 stacks

[main trellis]

hush; lemme distribute information nobody talks about ever

[manic wolf]

There is a reason noone talks about it Willy

I could fart into a lighter and kill more heretics than that thing can 😄

[main trellis]

6 if all pellets connect, max 10 stacks for the weapon itself (its like infernus type cap)
2 inferno shots & you are set

[main trellis]

cause you use it for bulwarks/reapers & bosses as extra dmg utility

[manic wolf]

An the rest of the time you're left with a less than mediocre ranged weapon. Idk man, I dont generally support buffing everything, but it just feels kinda sad at the moment

[main trellis]

cause nobody uses it cause everyone praises agri & neglects everything else cause 'hurr durr bias cause numbers bad'
ppl don't use shit before formulating opinions & its bad

[main trellis]

its far from mediocre

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its downright bad, I was being generous

Slow rate of fire, not very accurate, slow reload, special is only good into single targets despite wanting to be a budget flamer.. idk man. It just feels a bit limp at the moment

What they should do with Accatran right.. Now hear me out here...

Is get rid of it entirely, and give us a box mag fed space Saiga

[main trellis]

slow firerate is actualy benefitial cause recoil is basicaly non-existant due to it & thus also your pellet control so you hit more if you go full auto with it - makes it very consistent at midrange even while agri can be problematic if you wanna go for weakspots
it is very accurate despite having the highiest spread; ADS MORE...
reload is the same for every Cshotty so that argument is non-existant
special being considered a budget flamer has been the biggest missuse of the special since forever - i cringe everytime i see someone try to unwing fire slug into hordes - its pointless, its not designed for it
AS FOR THE POSITIVES THAT NOBODY TALKS ABOUT; does way more suppression & stagger which will save you vs multiple ranged enemies in the open; argi will not - it will get you killed cause it won't stop them from shooting ya (simply does not provide enough suppression to be good)

[manic wolf]

Counterpoint:

S p a c e S a i g a

Honestly though, like yea those are nice things on paper, but in practice its not hugely applicable. Stagger on ranged enemies is pretty easily obtainable on a lot of ranged weapons and the special is fire, fire is menna be good into hordes, both the other examples of it are basically designed for that. It's very misleading to the player, an single target damage is whatever because you could probably do more damage in melee in the time it takes you to load those shells back to back

An Im gonna be brutally honest about this one; the only time ive ever felt suppression do anything at all, is when enemies are inflicting it on me

[main trellis]

same for agri tbh yet ppl praise that to no end

[main trellis]

then you haven't used it ever

you haven't even tried

[manic wolf]

Agri gets the advantage of the slug tho

Thats why people like it

Bruh really

I've used it plenty, I just dont think its good at what its meant to do

A shotgun thats incapable of turning things into soup immediately, or lots of things into soup immediately, is just not it

[mighty belfry]

I like accatran

I don't think this class really utilizes it that well from the times I've tried using it.

Much prefer it on vet or arbites

[manic wolf]

I can see some argument for running it on Vet just due to Weapon Specialist, but even then im being kinda charitable because it gets hard carried by auto-crit

[zenith pagoda]

Does "pulverising strikes" increase ranged cleave too?

[mighty belfry]

Nah it can hold up without ws

It's definitely quite good with it

But vet just has so much damage beefing that it forces accatran past its shortcomings.

And it being a stagger/suppression stick that also has pretty good damage potential because of arby's tree also has value.

[manic wolf]

It's OK Goblin, I like bad weapons too, just not this one

[main trellis]

i never used it with WS & used it before Cshotties global buff & played in H40 & had better results than with agri
Am I outside of the general working of the weapon? No? Then why i succeeded?
Riddle me this
You may not like it & thats fair; thats preference
but don't consider a weapon 'downright bad' & completely ignoring its good points

[mighty belfry]

Don't think it does.

Also to be frank. I do think it's definitely the worst combat shotgun in general but that's more because it just isn't as versatile as the others

Not because it's bad.

[main trellis]

look at zarona

[mighty belfry]

Zarona at least has a niche of being a really good boss killer.

And tearing unyielding enemies apart particularly well

[woeful hill]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3586590987&searchtext=scum

Kuli guide

" Increases the maximum hit mass limit of melee and ranged attacks"

[main trellis]

all Cshotties are; they are all good vs unyielding

[main trellis]

same for accatran or agri; all of them can do that
only difference is stagger, firerate & dmg to a minor degree (mainly firerate)

[manic wolf]

Idk how you managed to get better results than the gun with the one shot delete special shell, but hey ho

[mighty belfry]

Zarona is a particular case because of its pellet count magically buffing itself against unyielding. And the damage and RoF does make it feel more consistent out the box from my experience

[main trellis]

cause 1-shotting is not end all be all argument that determines weapons worth
for a playtester & recognisable figure you should know that
no offence

[mighty belfry]

I say this, again, knowing you can definitely put in work with accatran.

[manic wolf]

Ofc its not the only metric, but its a pretty big part of being decent. Breakpoints do matter at the end of the day an if you're able to one-shot troublesome enemies accross the map, that inherently holds more value than something that cannot do so

Like I said before, shotgun should turn one thing, or multiple things into soup immediately upon pulling the trigger, thats kinda thier role. If one of them is lacking the ability to really feel impactful vs its contemporaries, thats a problem in my book

Anyway

S p a c e S a i g a

When Fatshark

[main trellis]

i think... execution shotgun mk3 REALLY made it all worse for us all

[manic wolf]

Nah, Double Barrel set the standard initially

The only reason thats not considered ridiculous in the current live game is because of armour spam

Literally thats the only thing holding it back

[main trellis]

and range (despite effective pellet count; i do not trust Dbarrel user to kill threats +20m away so we don't have any problems)

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its not spectacular over range, but being capable of turning a wall of 20 ragers into pedigree chum on one trigger pull is still hilariously strong

[brittle sierra]

RAMPAGE > DESPERADO CONFIRMED

[zenith pagoda]

Always has been

[mighty belfry]

That's just cuz you haven't played with me

Admittedly I have not played shovel DB in quite some time but if you know how to really abuse WS, you can actually get some really good range with DB

This class can force double barrel to have range too tbh

[north crow]

hmm, does lethal proxy increase new bolter aoe

or they independent from each other

[echo python]

It does

[main trellis]

always did

[zenith pagoda]

I can get nearly +100% cleave on my viag

[rotund agate]

btw, if I were to use mk4 Chaxe on a melee build, should I take Channelled Aggression to make killing rager groups quicker and/or easier? (mk4 has the sweeping non-sawing attacks on the heavies, and for me at least struggles to one-shot stuff...)

or I could just use the mk12 again, but then I wouldn't really be using the sawing attacks as often, which are the most unique (and coolest) parts of Chaxe... (and my carapace DPS would suffer as well if I were to use mk12 imo)

[low harbor]

Chainaxe H Sweep has 110% maniac ADM so all of the 25% rending from channeled aggression are to be converted into +dmg at 1/4 the value

[zenith pagoda]

Wtf????? I just played a h40, the twins spawned immediately along with like 5 bosses. So we lost.. and now it's saying I can't start a game until it ends?

[woeful hill]

Coassignment yard?

[zenith pagoda]

Archive

[hollow leaf]

Should I dump mobility on dual wield weapons? I feel like Hive Scum is the class that benefits most from having good mobility, and I see shivs don't unlock all their dodges until 80%

Also I have dual autopistols that have 76% on everything, is that good to use in the meantime?

[mighty belfry]

Noh

[hollow leaf]

I just got dual stubs that have collat as the dump stat

[mighty belfry]

Oh wait

Misunderstood

For most. Yes

[hollow leaf]

Been having horrible RNG trying to get good stat spreads 😭

[mighty belfry]

You can get away with not dumping it on stubs tbh

Since collateral doesn't really do that much for them.

[pallid quail]

nice

[jaunty coral]

i use this currently for my knife + needle pistol toxin build for havoc.
I was thinking of wanting to try HV with it, but im unsure what I shuold drop - any advice on what i should, or if its worth even dropping anything to add HV?

[verbal dew]

I'd skip quick and deadly, it's only boosting ranged dmg

[jaunty coral]

wait

[verbal dew]

I personally never go for maxed out chems but

[jaunty coral]

i interpreted that this whole time a "close-ranged damage"

is it only ranged dmg, that happens close?

i thoguht it was ALL dmg thats 'close'

lollll

[verbal dew]

hm idr

[jaunty coral]

i drop this sometimes, unsure whats better to pick up tho, having near 100% is pretty fun ngl

[verbal dew]

I have the enchanced descriptions mod so I might misremember tho

[jaunty coral]

coated weaponry i could take but its sort of meh

[livid raven]

not true

[jaunty coral]

ok, i thought it was dmg from "close range" - thats correct ya

on a build like this, with no blight - how do you guys feel about a 50s~ rending and cd stimm?

[livid raven]

i don't think rending gives you much on a knife build

[jaunty coral]

its more for team, buff psyker etc

but ya, maybe not needed

[livid raven]

also yeah, quick and deadly gives you 15% damage against any enemy 12.5m or closer. The talent doesn't say, but it actually still gives you a damage buff against basically anything (tho it's lesser) as long as they aren't too far (30m)

with anything

[verbal dew]

cd doesn't really do much on a crate build unless you're just planning on buffing teammates

[jaunty coral]

i take finesse if greedy, or a shorter stimm

[mental trellis]

i second you dont need 3 pts into chem lab if you plan to melee more often than not

if you need an xtra pt for HV

[jaunty coral]

ya, its kinda a hybrid builkd, i zip around melee a lot, poison things up with gun, stimm everyone etc

has near 100% crit

like 85% or higher

[mighty belfry]

No it doesn't

It's all damage within close range.

Even DoTs are affected.

[verbal dew]

yes ik now

[mighty belfry]

That being said.

It's kinda overrated.

3s on a successful dodge

[jaunty coral]

its up time is not great, ya

[livid raven]

i think it's great with vulture dodge and desperado

[mighty belfry]

Is more finicky than one might think and 15% damage isn't that much to really say its all that worth it on a melee build

But for ranged builds, it's way better.

Because you can just force successful dodges.

It's a crate build so it's kind of the same deal

I'd prefer the uh

Ranged node to the left of it. Forgot the name

[livid raven]

in your face

[rotund agate]

I was very close to taking Coat Weaponry on a mk4 Dclaw build, before realizing I already specced into Hypercrits...

[livid raven]

coated weaponry might just be kinda stinky

[mighty belfry]

Coated is good for sustained dps on bosses

[obsidian sand]

Is Hivescum worth it

[livid raven]

worth what

[obsidian sand]

The price

[livid raven]

yeah, despite fatshark breaking promises, it's worth 12 bucks

[rotund agate]

I mean, not incorrect, but 1 stack per crit is only good if you just use it to maintain Needlegun DoT, right...?

[obsidian sand]

Thanks

[livid raven]

or less if you can find it for less

if you got needlegun, it does basically nothing

[verbal dew]

this was me earlier today with coated on bosses maelstrom #hivescum-class message

[rotund agate]

I would use it for getting my stim quicker via Sample Collector without wasting ammo, but Hypercrit is better for Dclaw generally, right...?

[verbal dew]

just run both if you're going for a crit melee imo

[livid raven]

they don't really go against each other

toxin does anything basically only against crushers and bosses with a coated

[rotund agate]

and hyperccrits dont work on those

[livid raven]

actually, not sure, does a crit kill with coated apply for sample collector

[verbal dew]

should

[livid raven]

like, you crit a poxwalker and instakill him, does that count

[rotund agate]

likely not (I assume hypercrit happens first, but dunno)

[verbal dew]

I had some crazy uptime with my crate build against hordes

[mighty belfry]

Pretty much

Or for shivs because they have the throwing knives

[mighty belfry]

It still counts the 1%

That being said, sample itself seems to be weirdly coded where if the enemy doesn't actually die to the toxin, it'll only give the 1% and not the 2% like the description implies.

[livid raven]

that's dumb

[mighty belfry]

And it's not a hypercrit interaction in this case. I'm pretty sure it has to be the toxin that does it.

[river skiff]

It's fun if you know how to dodge without that prerequisite it's paper

[river skiff]

Just human sized enemies pretty sure bosses aren't included in it

[mighty belfry]

And ogryns

[hollow leaf]

There's so much love and detail put into the class it's more than worth it despite how expensive it is

[calm aurora]

12 is expensive?

[livid raven]

for something that was supposed to be free, i think it is

it's %infinity more expensive than what they promised

[zenith fern]

deadass the entire game updates is all free

But additional classes for more playability is too greedy apparently

[livid raven]

i thought the expensive shitty ass recycled skins made by an outsourced studio were supposed to pay for that?

[jaunty coral]

just got my IRL friend i've been 'training' for a while now into havoc, we just beat a h35

his first 30+

super proud of him, felt good to see one of my friends actually do well in hard content

he typically capped out, as did most of my friends who played, at AM level. Even then they would sometimes ask to play damnation quick play lol

he was flame bubble psyker, i was chem supply hive scum with mk III knife and needle pistol, and we had a dog arby + chorus zealot

pretty safe team, but he feels most comfortable on bubble and wanted to pick a nice comfy team for his first 30+ win

i was playing like, perfect first 75% of the map, consigmnet yard. I got combo'd right before the final event by a mutant into a burster and went down. I had taken 8 damage until then, was popping off
I also then took some gunner damage and flame dmg in the final event. But i was at 8 dmg taken getting off the elevator leading to the consignment yard finale. My kills werent insane but everyone played pretty well. Arby and i had to 2man clutch against twins too, was a good round

sorry for the rant, just excited i finally have one of my buddies 'havoc viable', kind of thought it would never happen

[woeful jackal]

Hive scum main^

[bronze glade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1351976144206954559/Warhammer40000_Darktide2025-03-1917-28-32-Trim-ezgif.com-video-speed_online-video-cutter.com.gif?width=308&height=300

[obsidian sand]

Well I got it and I have to say, my dodging has definitely improved since using it

[hollow leaf]

I live in Latin America, so...

[hollow leaf]

Hey some of them are pretty cool I think, doesn't make them less overpriced but I like the designs

Which strength stim path do you folk typically prefer? I have to stay above 50% viscosity for a penance

[astral canyon]

Depends on what weapon im using

Usually either finesse or crit

Mainly finesse

[livid raven]

rending for desperado

[livid raven]

you should check your other penances

if you have to do the toughness one too, just go full toughness path

[mighty belfry]

This reminds me of the time i took one of my friends to a 35

For his first havoc he held up pretty well especially given he wasn't running a meta loadout

[jaunty coral]

ya! (my friend was palpatine) he did totally ok too for his first 30+

felt good to beat with him

i think he might of gotten the bug too, he def felt the uptick lol

[mighty belfry]

We didn't win ours but, he said it was definitely fun and he wanted to try it again sometimes.

[jaunty coral]

nice, hopefully you guys can get one and he'll get the adrenaline rush of winning a hard match

shits fun

[fluid yarrow]

I forgot

3 Stam curio

Or 2

[muted pivot]

I tend to like rending for DAP despy, finesse for Vraks 5 despy, and crit chance for melee shiv or bonesaw focus builds

[upbeat gyro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGsweIajbU

[livid raven]

Clickbait title, that's all i need to know

[zenith fern]

that is true

[zenith fern]

never speak ill of reginald

[upbeat gyro]

TL;DR is that he thinks deranking needs to go from Havocs as its people forcing you to play meta to not drop

[lost ravine]

i agree

havoc would be a lot more playable if so

[unique spire]

I mean, it's making a sub-culture that is toxic with new players and non-meta players

But obviously Havoc has none of theses problems

I just made it up

[livid raven]

What

[mighty belfry]

Nah there's actual truth to this video.

[unique spire]

Havoc is bad

[mighty belfry]

Deranking just needs to go.

[unique spire]

Yeah

[livid raven]

Yeah i know havoc is bad, i don't need a youtuber to know that

[unique spire]

Ok?

[livid raven]

I just said clickbait title

Which it is

[mighty belfry]

It's not though.

Like. I actually do think there's legitimate merit to the title.

[livid raven]

It can be both true and clickbait

[unique spire]

So it isn't a clickbait

[livid raven]

I suggest you seek the definition

[mighty belfry]

The definition would just kind of imply any title at all is clickbait though.

[unique spire]

"Clickbait is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow ("click") that link and view, read, stream or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading."

[mighty belfry]

If you're going by just

[livid raven]

Yeah see we agree

[zenith fern]

Reginald never clickbaits, you folks should have known that

[mighty belfry]

Titling something to attact attention.

[livid raven]

You are just being disingenuous

[mighty belfry]

Clickbaiting usually would mean having it be outright misleading to the content

[livid raven]

It never meant that

[unique spire]

"Typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading"

[livid raven]

It is sensationalized

But tipically means usually

Which means not always

[unique spire]

Can't believe I have been baited with the truth

[livid raven]

Can't win with silly goobers

[lost ravine]

why do you seek to "win" when you're wrong

[mighty belfry]

Idk man I wouldn't say I feel baited by this

[livid raven]

I don't think it takes a master engineer to see the totle and the delet this thumbnail is usual youtuber clickbait material

Maybe the standards have been lowered that much

[mighty belfry]

It's more of the fact that it isn't really misleading or straight up titling something just for the actual content to have nothing to do with it or even be hyperbolic.

It might be clickbait from a literal standpoint but its not like I feel cheated by the title like a lot of really clickbaity shit tends to do.

Like. I can't really say much about people making thumbnails and videos like that because the algorithm quite literally forces you to do that if the content you're talking about is niche.

[livid raven]

If you don't think it's clickbait, it's fine

[sturdy linden]

"5 Mistakes In Your Critical Thinking, And How to Correct Them"
"Alpha Internet Chad DESTROYS Beta Rationalist!!!"
"This Woman Tried To Justfiy Clickbait. What Happened Next Will SHOCK YOU!"

[unique spire]

This argument is dumb anyways

If he doesn't want to believe in facts let him

[zealous ravine]

i think if they DELETED havoc the game would instantly be 15% better

then they can add higher mission board difficulties and nature can start healing

[jaunty coral]

why do lots say the 25% weakspot node bottom left isnt worth? i get like 1400->1600 ish increase on my uncanny crits on a h40 crusher

havent counted if its a ttk difference, but

seems like an ok increase?

[mighty belfry]

it depends on what you're using

[jaunty coral]

knife

[mighty belfry]

because the weapon needs to have good finesse to make use of it

[jaunty coral]

mk III (or VI, but often III)

[jaunty coral]

ya im rocking knife with finesse stim too

seems like a good increase combined together

im debating taking it instead of coated weaponry

i feel like i do notice coated tho on my general horde clear with knife, bc its so bad lol

and to keep bosses stacked dueling them after needle pistol dump is nice

stretched for points so im torn

[worn portal]

I cannot f ind +3 stam curio to save my life on hive scum

has anyone tried defense stims since patch? thoughts?"

[zealous ravine]

me neither

[granite pulsar]

Does the event mess with my chem depen stacks? They aren't lasting 60 seconds at all. I've got a 45 second stim with melee CD kill talent, and I can't get above 1 stack

Or did they introduce a bug? Never had an issue before

[final temple]

still not worth taking but at least not actively bad now.

[low harbor]

It’s good for crate since it’s quite strong buff

Could go strength + toughness

I still think strength + speed is usually better but that extra toughness from stim does help

[worn portal]

+3 STAMM!!!!

FINALLY

42 diamontine... no money to upgrade it

[bronze glade]

now get 2 more so you can make a 9 stam build 👍

[worn portal]

is that a thing?

[worn portal]

...

thats +9 stam?

[bronze glade]

yeah 9 stam gives 18% attack speed

[worn portal]

huh

[bronze glade]

with swift endurance

[worn portal]

adren frenzy?

really?

[bronze glade]

yeah

more attack speed

the build is obviously a total glass cannon build

but you also turn into a blender so it's prettttttty safe

[worn portal]

why quick and deadly

forges bellow seems... iono ive alway been let down

[mighty belfry]

Forge's Bellow is lowkey kinda goated

It's a lifesaver sometimes.

[worn portal]

why?

just as a one time push?

[mighty belfry]

First shout is good for making space and getting a good few hits in on a boss.

[worn portal]

ive never had a 2nd shout proc

[mighty belfry]

Second shout is good for getting breathing room and getting you unpinned.

[mighty belfry]

That is

Not possible?

[worn portal]

tested in psyk

didnt do anythin

[mighty belfry]

You should try it in game.

[bronze glade]

oops that should be tertium welcome

[mighty belfry]

You'll notice it.

[bronze glade]

but yeah bellow is goated

esp if you're paying attention to your rampage uptime

[mighty belfry]

You can use it strategically if you know what you're doing.

[bronze glade]

it's prob a bit less useful now that the you don't have exhaustion

but i'd take it still anyway

[mighty belfry]

man

heavy sword is fun on this class

[worn portal]

ya just tried bellow and it didnt shout again at end of rampge

[bronze glade]

that doesn't sound right 🤔

cuz i got dogged before

and second shout saved me

[mighty belfry]

second shout saved an entire havoc run the other day for me lmao

[loud root]

So I wish to ask peoples opinion on a something specific part of the hive scum. So I started playing the new event, having fun with it but quickly realized Cartel Special/stimm lab kinda hold ya back during the event. So i took it off to make it easier. Using the abundance of stimms everywhere, along with Stimm Supply I was popping stimm buffs for the team even getting to use them multiple times in a row. I started looking into the stats of the basic stimms and Cartel Special/stimm lab. Besides some extra stuff in specific stimm trees there just about the same hell on some of the basics are better. (Celerity Stimm +300% Vs Kalma tree 50%) So now with long explanation of evidence/knowledge on this subject now put forth. I wish to ask 'is Cartel Special/stimm lab even that good, or is there something I'm missing?'

[novel oracle]

its a regenerating stim whereas stims on the map are consumables, and are in limited supply

that alone singificantly makes the cartel stim much more valuable overall

because even if a lot of the effects arent as good, you get to use that stim over 10x more often than the normal stims

getting like 40 +50% cdr stims is gonna be way better than 1-2 +200% cdr stims over the course of the mission

plus you can still customize them for the build, you can get some defensive buffs too, crit chance, finesse, etc, stuff that isnt in normal stims

and also theres talents that do extra things when you use/while under stim effects, so having more to use and higher total uptime on whatever effects only helps those

the weird disconnect from the event is mostly just cuz the map is flush with health stims and if you have the cartel stim, you cant really get those

[loud root]

i knew there was something i wasn't thinking about. i guess the event kinda scewed my thoughts on stimms. With there being so much thank you.

ya and hell the regenerating stim makes more sense simply because your not running around finding other stims. to replace the 1 you just used. thinking about it i might have been more of a dead wight then usual caunstly trying to use stims over and over again but quickly ran out.

thinking about it most of the time i didnt realize how much progress was made on the mission beacuse i was finding stims

[river skiff]

I think it's a must have if you are going melee with your build as it adds brittleness effect for free

[jaunty coral]

why does toxin add brittleness, what am i missing?

[verbal dew]

prob just confusing it for purple mode on cleaver

[outer silo]

Does cooldown reduction on your hypo do anything when your ability is up?

[livid raven]

no

desperado and rampage don't go on cooldown when they are used, only when they are over

[verbal dew]

most abilities don't recharge when active

scrier's gaze is one but wrong class

[outer silo]

Thought that'd be the case.

[verbal dew]

or ig the timer doesn't run, but you can lower the cooldown with psykinetics aura

or maybe I'm just conflating it with warp unbound

[civic smelt]

As I was not able to find this from the previous chats - which talent/weapon loadouts are the ones you currently use for high havoc? Seen a lot of mixed meelee weapons + Nailgun I think

[potent sentinel]

is there anything that cleaves better than devils claw?

[alpine orchid]

No amount of defensive stats can save me from a teammate's bad decisions it seems

Was me and an arbites, one moment he's next to me and I'm dealing with like 20 specialists, the next I lagged back into a trapper's net and he's run like 50 meters ahead ._.

[alpine orchid]

I'm assuming you mean within Hive Scum's arsenal, in terms of sheer cleave I think the Heavy Sword can compare? Somewhat? But the Devil's Claw is a much better overall weapon than the Heavy Sword is so

[potent sentinel]

yeah i figured that would be the case since parry is so good

[verbal dew]

HS with deathblow active ye

[potent sentinel]

i just wanted to mess around with the toxin crit build

[flat mist]

You got trapped and it was the arbi's fault?

[verbal dew]

knife is also fun with toxin crit

[alpine orchid]

No, not that. I don't blame the trapping on the Arbites, I lagged back and there's nothing I could really do about that

[zenith fern]

shivs mk3 light spam

[flat mist]

Lagged back as in you fell behind?

[alpine orchid]

No like literally lagged back

This happened within like 10 seconds

[verbal dew]

mk3 heavies on shiv make me too sad to use it

[zenith fern]

some reason feel too slow

[alpine orchid]

3 flamers 2 bombers 2 hounds and a trapper all going for me at once and in the same 10 seconds he went from right next to me to rushing ahead trying to revive the downed Psyker who was like 2 rooms away

The Psyker died instantly as he rezzed and then the arbites died because all the specials I was dealing with went after him on top of everything else 😭

[worn portal]

does 2nd shout on bellow have a visual?

and its when rampage ends?

[alpine orchid]

I may be mistaken but I'm like 99% certain the second shout just doesn't work

[worn portal]

pretty sure it doesnt for me

[alpine orchid]

The first shout works just fine but the second shout just doesn't seem to happen. No stagger, everything swings at the same speed

[worn portal]

ya i dunno if id get bellow with only one shout

[flat mist]

Second shout definitely does work

[alpine orchid]

Curious

[flat mist]

Just go and hold block/dodge around some stuff with it active

[alpine orchid]

Just tested it in the psykhanium to be sure

First shout works, second shout didn't happen

[zenith fern]

It does work

[alpine orchid]

I would like to know what I'm doing wrong here then