hivescum-class

[novel oracle]

and hive scum got none of the nerfs it deserves either

[bronze glade]

Naturally

[lilac ermine]

It doesnt need any nerf

[novel oracle]

yes it does

[bronze glade]

What’s next? Desperado buffs?

[mighty belfry]

Yes it fucking does.

This class has just become ghetto psyker.

That's pretty much what's happening now.

[novel oracle]

the class has infinite ammo and obscene amounts of applications of the strongest dot in the game

[mighty belfry]

Yeah, with pickpocket.

[novel oracle]

they need targeted nerfs to specific things, not blanket nerfs across the class
but those specific things desperately need to be toned down

[mighty belfry]

...IF YOU'RE LAME

GOT EM

[novel oracle]

whether that actually happens though is another story

[mighty belfry]

I've started running even crate without pickpocket just out of principle at this point.

[novel oracle]

psyker has only gotten buffs because what the fuck is restraint

[mighty belfry]

I just hate the node enough that I can't care enough about the overwhelming value that it brings.

[novel oracle]

strongest class in the game
lets make them tanky and give them more damage and trivialize the mechanic that attempts to justify the strength

[mighty belfry]

Anytime I've used it, it just devolves to ranged spam and it's counterintuitive to why I enjoy this game so much.

[novel oracle]

now lets do the same with scum

[bronze glade]

Been saying that forever. It always has been.

[lilac ermine]

Most hive scum arent even desperado in havoc

[mighty belfry]

I've seen plenty.

[novel oracle]

desperado is the only build i run in havoc on scum

its just so fucking overpowered

[lilac ermine]

Way more rampage and box

[bronze glade]

Tbh right now I’m in the stage where i have more fun bashing the game

[mighty belfry]

And they're usually doing crazy numbers. They're just, a little weaker against crushers but it's not even by a large margin.

[bronze glade]

Than playing it

[leaden fable]

Says the guy that got wired up just to directly buff scriers gaze

[brittle sierra]

I'm burnt out, should I get back onto the League addiction? 😈

[novel oracle]

that was a joke

[main trellis]

i salute to that 🫡

[pallid sapphire]

Most hivescum run chem supply and make me wonder why tf they're in my party

[mighty belfry]

Because Supply is uh

Actually good?

[low harbor]

I'm counting on u to gaslight fatshark into reducing psyker toughness to 50 and removing all their toughness talent nodes

[lilac ermine]

Desperado is pretty useless against crusher pack unlike psyker

[mighty belfry]

Just run shivs

[lilac ermine]

And dont say rockets

[pallid sapphire]

Just run rending stim with autopistols tf

[novel oracle]

except its not with the rending talent
sure its not great, but theyre managable

[main trellis]

ROCKETS

[mighty belfry]

Not every build has to gigamog crushers.

[pallid sapphire]

Rending stim shreds crushers

[novel oracle]

because its easy as shit
just a walking stat distributor and you just spam toxin at everything with pickpocket needlepistol to kill everything without engaging it while also giving you even more crates/stims

[lilac ermine]

Rampage just cleans them up in like 1-2 hit

[mighty belfry]

Rampage is good for a different reason though.

[vapid jungle]

This reminds me of the ksante meme in league

[main trellis]

Best part is; rending stimm & despy together do nice dmg to crushers... in H40

[pallid sapphire]

Rampage/desp are also easy as shit and the damage is the main reason to play the scumguzzler

[main trellis]

add att spd to the stimm & you melt them even faster

[mighty belfry]

Desperado has a lot of value actually. There ain't many classes that can just straight up ignore ranged pressure for a prolonged period of time like Scum can, while also completely mobile.

[pallid sapphire]

If you wanna go Chem supply id rather have a zealot with chorus

Or a bubble cuck

[lilac ermine]

Psyker just ignore range pressure completely for whole team

[mighty belfry]

With Bubble?

The ability, that breaks?

[novel oracle]

but supply scum does way more damage than book zealot purely cuz thats how fucking insane needlepistol and toxin is

[mighty belfry]

When too many things shoot at it?

Yeah there's a bit of a flaw to that.

[bronze glade]

I’ve been playing Menace

[low harbor]

srsly tho they prob could try reducing psyker toughness to 50 and removing all their toughness talent nodes

it's the easiest way to balance psyker

[novel oracle]

like i dont like playing supply scum but i get why people play it
because you dont actually have to do much to be stupidly effective

[lilac ermine]

Not really

[novel oracle]

just like a purg psyker or book zealot

[main trellis]

personaly; when i inspect HS and i see needler & pickpocket together i don't accept them ever
Principles matter

[mighty belfry]

What do you mean, Not Really?

It does.

Shield will not last long if there's a ton of gun pressure on you.

[pallid sapphire]

I'd still rather have a relic blade Marty zealot if we're locking in a support cuck character

[lilac ermine]

Ive barely seen it break and they just get it back instantly

[novel oracle]

when under gunfire the ability will break in 6s

[main trellis]

then you haven't seen alot

[vapid jungle]

Empathic Evasion would be more comparable

[drifting heron]

This is why smoke grenades stay winning

[mighty belfry]

But you have to be actively critting to do that.

Desperado Scum can just

[sturdy linden]

Is very comfy

[mighty belfry]

Straight up ignore ranged fire.

[vapid jungle]

That is very easy to do.

[pallid sapphire]

Most scumguzzling drug dealers dont know their place 20 years behind the team sharing needles like a real space fent addict should

[novel oracle]

shields have 20 health and any ranged hit removes 1 hp and prevents damage for .33s
so at most it lasts 6.66s while under gunfire

[vapid jungle]

With no cd

[mighty belfry]

Yeah but my point is that because of that, you can do things with Desperado you usually might not be able to with other classes.

[main trellis]

its coded like that? interresting

[mighty belfry]

Like, getting a really dicey revive off.

[novel oracle]

yea

[pallid sapphire]

Execution stance got their kneecaps busted so desp could fly

[zinc mirage]

infantry autogun, the mark with the shortest barrel , with vulture mark talent for 1 sec immune to all attacks on crit hit, I feel like I'm basically running desperado, since I'm shooting so many rounds, there is always one crit and with pocket thief I never run out of ammunition as long as there is a specialist popping up, take increased reload speed talent, reload takes 1 sec, just dodge and become immune to everything while shooting again
added rampage to this build with the chainsword I'm currently loving this build
then again I'm an auric scrub and there are probably way more better builds to play this class 😄

[low harbor]

they shud remove the .33s dmg prevention for bubble

so it gets shredded in 1s by 3 gunners

or at least reduce the dmg prevention window

0.15s maybe

[main trellis]

0.20?

[low harbor]

or even 0.1s

[low harbor]

nah less

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

0.1~0.15s prob would be ok

[main trellis]

how so? i did not saw any problems

[kindred bear]

does the rampage buff remove the damage vulnerability aswell or just the stamina shit

[woeful hill]

both removed

[mighty belfry]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[low harbor]

alongside massive CD increase for all psyker abilities except wall

[kindred bear]

LOL

[mighty belfry]

Nothing happened.

[novel oracle]

Nothing unique allowed

[low harbor]

shriek 50s
bubble 60s
SG 60s

smth like that

[kindred bear]

i mean it barely mattered anyways

[mighty belfry]

The sad thing is that I'm pretty sure Rampage is just

[novel oracle]

Every ability will be a mindless stat bucket

[mighty belfry]

Going to stay this way.

[main trellis]

yeah nah; you'll have to pull some men in black shit on me to forget that
Willy will remember that

[mighty belfry]

Because they've already opened Pandora's Box taking away the debuff entirely.

[novel oracle]

But it could have been made more interesting and involved

But they just got rid of it entirely

[bronze glade]

God forbid players have to use two brain cells at once to pay attention to cues and plan ahead

[mighty belfry]

Bringing it back would incur negative feedback.

[kindred bear]

I think a fun way to debuff it is to take $1 usd out of your bank account for every instance of damage taken

[novel oracle]

No nerfs allowed
Only buffs
Balance in video games is dead

[kindred bear]

https://tenor.com/view/lapiscel-dog-dog-mad-mad-angry-gif-4569011876038426305

[pallid sapphire]

Mfers will cry for nerfs to two classes when they should just be buffing other playstyles

[lilac ermine]

They should buff desperado a little to give more rending against armor

So you can just gun down crushers

[vapid jungle]

Jesus.

[trim wind]

Nerf all playstyles

[lilac ermine]

Maybe the dual stub pistols more rending to be armor shredder weapon

[novel oracle]

This is the exact mindset that results in the game having to spawn 20 ragers and 10 crushers just to challenge the player at their level of power

And that isnt fun for anyone

[mighty belfry]

All I really wanted was for them to just, adjust the stamina debuff a little. Not even a big change. Like, maybe just a touch up on the percentage of stamina regen debuff. Or maybe the debuff brings your stamina to like 25% instead so you're not completely shit out of luck if it ends in a bad spot.

Like

[low harbor]

u need to stop cooking

[mighty belfry]

They seriously did not need to do all this.

Rampage just feels, bland now.

[vapid jungle]

If we continue to buff characters we need enemy rebalances more than anything

[calm aurora]

rampage should be 50% rending at least

[mighty belfry]

please cease and desist

[bronze glade]

Honestly

[low harbor]

hot take ig but I'd have preferred if the stamina drain was removed but the dmg vulnerability kept

[mighty belfry]

I think the DR didn't need to be touched like at all

[lilac ermine]

Is there way to use new stagger talent buff

[pallid sapphire]

Are you mfers

[bronze glade]

They should just cut to the chase and replace rampage with scriers gaze

[lilac ermine]

Gray these ppl want nerfs on every thing

[bronze glade]

We’re already half way there anyway

[main trellis]

thats not cooking
thats burning the pan

[calm aurora]

drug haze

[mighty belfry]

No one wants nerfs. We just didn't want a completely overkill buff.

[bronze glade]

I like it

[pallid quail]

meanwhile ogryn still suffering death by 1000 cuts

[mighty belfry]

Well, okay. I'm lying.

Some things need to be nerfed on this class.

[novel oracle]

During development I wanted rampage to have some 0 cost talents that buffed rampage but added a new effect to exhaustion
For example, +movement speed during rampage, -movement speed during exaust

[mighty belfry]

But, pertaining to this specifically, Rampage change was just, way overkill.

[novel oracle]

Suddenly
You have your own custom rampage
Then your own custom consequences for your actions

[zenith pagoda]

Right I've got enhanced penance up to 2000

[low harbor]

that'd be cool

[mighty belfry]

I'm even saying it could have done with a slight buff to offset the debuff. Not, this.

[upbeat gyro]

Is it good? Im fan of Battle Brothers, but instead tried Meowgenics today

[calm aurora]

dclaw mk1 with rampage rending is silly rn

[low harbor]

I don't want nerfs on everything

[mighty belfry]

This game is seriously suffering from its power creep and this is just making it worse.

[pallid sapphire]

I mean you dont have to overkill buff stuff to make it good. The rampage change is good. Bring back execution stance reload. Make ogryn not suck, maybe give him more ranged resistance or a free breakout on cool down

[low harbor]

I actually think a lot of things need buffs

[novel oracle]

We want nerfs on things that deserve it

So the game can stabilize and fights become fun again rather than just spam

[low harbor]

and I don't rly hate the changes in 1.10.6 personally

[mighty belfry]

Rampage change, is overkill. It did not need to lose the debuff entirely, especially for how much free damage you get for using it.

[lilac ermine]

I dont even care abt rampage but I still like the changes bc those were things that ppl dont use really like tank stim and the cheap shot talent

[sturdy linden]

Even as a mediocre player I have actually never died to the damage vulnerability that Rampage end had

[mighty belfry]

75% melee damage is nuts to just have freely.

[lilac ermine]

I really wanted pickpocket and desperado buff

[mighty belfry]

GET THEM OUT OF THE KITCHEN

[novel oracle]

Armor spam is a problem due to the best of the best absolutely nuking them, so the game spawns more to challenge that

[sturdy linden]

You are brainrotted.

Sorry

[low harbor]

ok u need to let go of the oven like rn

[leaden fable]

Why do you want one of the strongest builds buffed further?

[pallid sapphire]

Arbi can bully crushers too, should we nerf arbi

[novel oracle]

Which in turn makes the stuff thats not the best of the best worse
Purely caused by the lack of nerfs to what needed them

[sturdy linden]

This statement is basically a declaration of "never take me seriously please"

[leaden fable]

Yeah very likely just bait

[novel oracle]

Buffing the worse stuff wont fix the issue because the game is still spawning shit in numbers that arent fun to fight

The problem that you want more rending to fix is literally caused by the lack of nerfs

Two wrongs dont make a right

[sturdy linden]

It would be nice if the only answer to raising difficulty wasn't "80 million carapace GO!" or "fuck all cleave GO!"

[mighty belfry]

#hivescum-class message I will die on this hill

[sturdy linden]

They've been kinda cooking with some of the events, maybe they use those levers to tweak difficulty instead

I hope so anyway

[pallid sapphire]

I mean if enough people are clearing havoc 40 consistently then lardshark won't nerf h40

[low harbor]

at this rate I honestly think crusher should be lower base hp but have high ranged DR across all hitzones except weakspot to make them an enemy ur supposed to fight in melee with

[lilac ermine]

Melee already kills them fast in like 2 shots

[low harbor]

and then tweak melee attack ADM from there

[lilac ermine]

Dueling sword and psword and shivs just nuke crushers already

Almsot every ranged weapon is bad against them

[novel oracle]

True, if you use 2 of the 100 melee weapons

[low harbor]

yea and I think those need changes too

[novel oracle]

So the things we want nerfs for

Astute observation

[pallid sapphire]

The lesson in hd2 is that they over nerfed everything while buffing enemies and it pissed everyone off so they started buffing spawns and everything you can use but a huge chunk of the playerbase were quitting because of Sony fucking it up anyway

[lilac ermine]

And zealot greatsword and psyker deimos and psyker swords

[leaden fable]

If this is true why not just use those melee weapons on a desperado build? That's exactly what I do

[low harbor]

yea them too lol

[lilac ermine]

Erm only with rampage

[leaden fable]

Nah it's fine without it because they're overtuned

[mighty belfry]

But now it's become a state of them constantly buffing things because they don't want to piss their playerbase off.

[lilac ermine]

With desperado its like 6-8 shot crusher

[leaden fable]

Maybe if you cannot hit the head

[mighty belfry]

Which is kinda happening here now.

[lilac ermine]

With only headshots

[sturdy linden]

The lesson in HD2 is that that game should have died in development and not infected the horde shooter category with the dogwater mentality its toxic community follows

[leaden fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1406988061509681285/image0.gif

[mighty belfry]

There

Are so many more enemies

Than crushers.

[novel oracle]

But the lesson learned by gamers from hd2 is "all nerfs bad, review bomb until they change it when they do"
This is why they dont nerf, because theyre afraid of the gamers that think this way

[lilac ermine]

Its the only ones that matter really and bosses

[mighty belfry]

Nah never have this person in the kitchen again

[novel oracle]

It doesnt matter if it was justified in hd2
They learned nerfs bad, review bomb if nerf

[mighty belfry]

So

We're ignoring

Ragers

[novel oracle]

And thats what happens every time here

[mighty belfry]

Maulers

[leaden fable]

If your kit trivializes everything but bosses and one enemy, it's already strong enough

[mighty belfry]

Gunners

[sturdy linden]

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Darktide already has suffered from review bombing when OG Vet was nerfed?

[mighty belfry]

Specialists

[sturdy linden]

Like nasty bombing at that

[mighty belfry]

We're just completely ignoring 90% of the enemy roster

[pallid sapphire]

Well if you make the game unplayable for most of your community theyre gonna quit yes lmao

[novel oracle]

And also from the potential of a future nerf for ds4 and plasma

[mighty belfry]

Hell even bruisers can be a problem if there's enough of them.

[lilac ermine]

Idk the game just feels like crusher spam is only threat

[novel oracle]

I WONDER WHY

[low harbor]

I don't think crusher is even in top3 most threatening

[novel oracle]

ALMOST LIKE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN BUFFED SO MUCH THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IS TRIVIAL

[mighty belfry]

Crushers are problematic because they're massive space takers, first and foremost.

[novel oracle]

SO THATS THE ONLY THING THEY CAN DO ANYMORE TO CHALLENGE YOU

[low harbor]

they just deny cleave and block space

that's about it

[mighty belfry]

They exist to make everything else much more problematic.

[lilac ermine]

If the team just builds to kill crushers then you win

[pallid sapphire]

Crushers biggest threat but people in havoc 30s getting gunned down by like 50 gunners on heightened ground with no bubble or desperado to carry them

[novel oracle]

And thats a problem

Something has to give

[lilac ermine]

Even with rampage its same

[novel oracle]

How would you solve that problem

[lilac ermine]

Make gunners stronger

[leaden fable]

Clearly the answer is to delete psyker from the game

[lilac ermine]

And shotgunners and shooters

[mighty belfry]

And hive scum while we're at it

Literally ghetto psyker

[lilac ermine]

Theyve been nerfed so much that they are not even threat anymore

And the plasma gunners

[main trellis]

Its time for you to go to sleep my friend cause this is some looney tunes bs you're spitting out

[leaden fable]

Go play high havoc ogryn and tell me they're not strong enough

[lilac ermine]

I dont play ogryn

[leaden fable]

Gee I wonder why

[lilac ermine]

The good ogryns can just slide every thing

Which isnt make sense

[novel oracle]

Im done

[mighty belfry]

Yeah same

[pallid sapphire]

Guys I know I'm a havoc 40 chud but buff trappers so they come behind you Irl so you have to dodge nets in your chair

[mighty belfry]

I don't think I can really say anything that's going to mean much here

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[mighty belfry]

Just to clarify, a good ogryn player, would be actually pissed at you for saying this unironically.

[main trellis]

i can agree; when the idea to buff shooters is put on the table i know its time to make some ppl forcefully asleep

[mighty belfry]

That is just blatant misinformation.

[lilac ermine]

just bc I have different ideas and im not part of this hive mind

[sturdy linden]

if you don't play Ogryn why are you yapping out of your ass then

[bronze glade]

There’s a learning curve but the game eases you in better than BB. I really like it. Good amount of content, satisfying to play, cool factions. Feels like a very good representation of combined arms tactics.

[low harbor]

wat hive mind
people disagree constantly

[upbeat gyro]

Ill prolly still wait its more finished

[mighty belfry]

It's not that you have different ideas. You're clearly saying something that's implying you don't actually know what you're talking about.

[lilac ermine]

I play with good ogryns

[bronze glade]

Yeah fair.

[main trellis]

so your observation skills are dogshit
noted

[mighty belfry]

Good ogryns don't just slide and they're magically immune to ranged damage.

[main trellis]

[lilac ermine]

They never really get hit with gunners

[bronze glade]

Cat rage baiting the entire server

[pallid sapphire]

Guys I know I'm a h40 chud but I want a grenadier to show up at my house while I'm dodging 100 gunners in my average h40 cooldown match after my 19 hour goon- I mean gaming session and I want them to firebomb my living room

[novel oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-silly-silly-cat-stare-gif-17130425485948020000

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/butterfly-dog-rage-bait-meme-gif-9175559818513666389

[sturdy linden]

it's just the insanely confident idiocy

[mighty belfry]

19 hours but not a second of edging

[pallid sapphire]

Guys I think scumguzzler class should suffer withdrawals every 120 seconds you dont pop fent

[low harbor]

I hav some wack ideas that could prob convince cole that I'm a dumbass if he didn't alrdy think so

[pallid sapphire]

Guys, why don't we give Flak gunners carapace helmets?

[sturdy linden]

doesn't Psyker chat already think so w.r.t. your Psyker takes?

[pallid sapphire]

Everytime the Veteran shouts he should get a sore throat for 5 minutes

[novel oracle]

Ive seen your vet suggestions and I think you belong in an asylum

[low harbor]

I could do way worse

[zenith pagoda]

FINALLY

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[astral canyon]

Pot calling the kettle black situation

[novel oracle]

How

[astral canyon]

Youre in the darktide discord

We all belong in a fucking asylum

[pallid sapphire]

Crushers should be buffed so much that we only need one crusher every 5 minutes but every time you hit him your hand vibrates so much from hitting a brickshithouse that you drop your weapon for 20 seconds

[low harbor]

remember that convo in dorn server all the way back when I said inf las IX needed smth like 40% more dmg

[pallid sapphire]

Scumguzzler class should have backblast on rockets so you can teamkill

[mighty belfry]

Only people who are actually clinically insane would be willing to talk about the mechanical depths of this game

[novel oracle]

Yeah thats crazy
Ilas just needs to not suck at hitting what youre shooting at first

[low harbor]

and kez called me insane for thinking that

[novel oracle]

Then maybe baked in hotshot

[low harbor]

as it turns out

u guys kinda did what I suggested

by giving vet 70% more dmg overall

[pallid sapphire]

people who are clinically insane think we should make the game even harder

[novel oracle]

The rockets already do have backblast

[pallid sapphire]

Just be good boys like the vermincucks and wait for your modded ball crushing simulacrum difficulty

[novel oracle]

Then im clinically insane

[low harbor]

which I think is quite funny

[mighty belfry]

You know, you'd think this.

[low harbor]

cuz I said 40% but u guys did 70%

[mighty belfry]

Because I do propose for nerfs on things that are clearly really, really strong

But it's actually the opposite.

[pallid sapphire]

I solo'd deathshed 5 difficulty while beating 10 bosses in the final arena of the main campaign at the same time while playing Sigma Priest

[mighty belfry]

The main reason why this game's difficulty is the way it is, is because the power creep has made Fatshark resort to some really underhanded shit to inflate difficulty.

[pallid sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/victor-saltzpyre-saltzpyre-victor-vermintide-2-vermintide-gif-788849408816878042

[mighty belfry]

Which, is also making the engine itself crumble.

[brittle sierra]

Oh yeah?

I played Monkey Island

[mighty belfry]

Which makes the game harder in a really unintuitive and annoying way.

[pallid sapphire]

Playing war of fortune and getting jumped by like 50 assassins and 100 chaos warriors at the same time

[novel oracle]

H40 shouldn't change much in difficulty but the tools that trivialize it should
Which would also significantly impact lower difficulties more, which is important
Its crazy that theres no middle ground between the current lack of difficulty auric provides and the insanity of h40

[low harbor]

also I dug code a bit deeper and now I actually can make code lvl tweak suggestions since ik what attacks' dmg, adm and finesse actually are

[pallid sapphire]

Light work, no reaction

The thing is whoever talks about h40 being trivial are like

1% of the playerbase who also play premades

[mighty belfry]

I don't want the game to be harder. I want all the overperforming stuff to be wittled down so the game can be adjusted to not be constant density spam which is breaking the game.

[leaden fable]

imagine making a smurf to come back into a community after you're banned and just getting ostracized all over for your dogshit opinions

[brittle sierra]

Not me

I get on party finder and make sure nobody picks Psyker or Scum

[pallid sapphire]

The way these h40 chuds talk how come my clearance lvl 40 gaymers in h30 missions aren't doing quadruple backflips while fucking my wife and carrying in me darktide at the same time

[mighty belfry]

wut

[woeful hill]

darcy?

[novel oracle]

Most of the time it is when I join a party finder lobby just cuz everyone uses the "trivialize the game" weapons and abilities

Funny how that works

[lilac ermine]

Bc they need to buff the other waepons

[novel oracle]

But I have much more fun in a pre-made where everyone just runs the build they want to run, even if it gets more hectic, thats part of the fun
You dont get that with party finder games because no one is willing to use anything other than whats gamebreakingly broken

[leaden fable]

I get these folks and they still get wiped in 5 minutes

[novel oracle]

Im just convinced youre baiting now

[leaden fable]

inferno staff psykers when the final toll rager doesn't stagger

[mighty belfry]

A lot of success I usually get

[mighty belfry]

Comes from teams that don't metaslave

[main trellis]

he always was

[mighty belfry]

As a matter of fact, some of the smoothest game's I've had

[main trellis]

[lilac ermine]

Says the person who says they take weapons to make it harder for the other team members

[mighty belfry]

Had not even a lick of golden toughness.

[novel oracle]

I never said that

[mighty belfry]

Or bubble.

[novel oracle]

When did I ever say that

[leaden fable]

cole throws by not taking the most meta options smh

[mighty belfry]

And those games are fun.

[main trellis]

i can't remember the last time i had bubble in my games

[leaden fable]

tbf blight totally fucked any bubble meta

[novel oracle]

I use what im good with and what I like
And turns out
That ends up working

[lilac ermine]

Here

U said you like to make it more hectic for ur team

[mighty belfry]

That is

Not what they said.

But sure.

[novel oracle]

I said its more hectic because the entire team isnt using the shit that trivializes the game

Theyre using what they find fun

[leaden fable]

professional strawmanner over here

[mighty belfry]

For real

[lilac ermine]

I dont like when my teammate is using devil claw and lasgun and doing almost nothing tho

[mighty belfry]

Fuckin' "I like waffles" "So that means you hate pancakes" ah statement

[novel oracle]

Helbore vet is very very strong, but it actually requires you to play the game vs plasma just hitting everything in a zipcode
Thats an example

[lilac ermine]

Not really

Only if everyone agrees to use less meta weapons then it doesnt bother anyone

[mighty belfry]

It kinda is. You just straight up assumed something about what they said that wasn't even true.

[drifting heron]

Certified fun hater

Enemy of joy

Destroyer of whimsy

[lilac ermine]

Some ppl have fun winning a hard match

[leaden fable]

League of Legends players when you don't use the #1 meta build from some website that won the latest ranked tourney on the most meta character for your role

[sturdy linden]

"If you're not using meta weapons you are selfish and hate everyone and are ruining the game and I am a sane person with a reasonable take"

[leaden fable]

yes, some people want a hard match

[lilac ermine]

The devil claw player is just a loss most of the time

[mighty belfry]

you take that back about Ainz

[brittle sierra]

I agree 100000%

That's why I play kickback gunslinger Ogryn with PPB

[mighty belfry]

This is, for all legal purposes, a joke.

[leaden fable]

Usually when I see dclaw I'm prepared for some crazy skilled play because they typically don't bring one unless they're confident they can use it

[novel oracle]

Ive walked into a scab only maelstrom with a dclaw zealot on purpose and was the only one who didnt go down and did more damage that everyone combined 😭

[mighty belfry]

I played with Ainz and they were using a devil claw revolver build with Exe stance

[main trellis]

Boi; you can win with non-meta as long as you know how 2 build & have the skill (some off-meta weapons provide even different options to take down threats)

[mighty belfry]

They put in some work lemme tell you

[brittle sierra]

Ok but are YOU Ainz? 😈

[mighty belfry]

Absolutely not.

I don't think I'll ever be that good.

[brittle sierra]

I don't think Ainz sleeps

[mighty belfry]

And I'm completely content with that thought.

[lilac ermine]

I did play with them

[leaden fable]

launch helldivers 2 players when you brought something other than railgun, shield backpack, and incendiary breaker or slugger

[lilac ermine]

They went down first and did no dmg

[novel oracle]

Lol???

[mighty belfry]

HUH

[sturdy linden]

@woeful hill shots fired

[leaden fable]

wow I'm convinced

[main trellis]

i use Dclaw on my Trauma EP build
Reason? Boss will come after me & i just parry it
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/13310308739089428134/B2F7EDE5587F0EA057ECC4BE822F7554B21B320F/

[mighty belfry]

I've been appreciating the Dclaw more and more.

[pallid sapphire]

I've been a d1 dclaw glazer

but yeah you can use anything in Maelstrom

I beat it the other day with like 3 friends who probably have 10 hours total all on lvl 20-25 characters

[bronze glade]

Using the Illisi of dclaws

[lilac ermine]

The dclaw and infantry lasgun player

[novel oracle]

Heres a counterpoint to "you just want everything nerfed"
Dclaw desperately needs a parry blessing that gives +50% damage AND rending to the next 3 hits on a perfect parry

[novel oracle]

I dont think thats Ainz

[mighty belfry]

What was their name?

[lilac ermine]

I can pm

Without block on their name only

[lilac ermine]

Fox

[mighty belfry]

Another one. Heavy sword's rending blessing needs a serious rework.

[main trellis]

ye its quite dogshit

[novel oracle]

Yeah thats him
Probably just not his game which happens

[mighty belfry]

Completely pointless blessing.

[lilac ermine]

Whoever that was was intentionally griefing the whole game

[mighty belfry]

And rending would really help to make Heavy Sword more applicable for the classes that have it.

[low harbor]

buff H smiter's base carapace ADM instead

[main trellis]

You see; alot of prominent ppl showcase the best side of themselves for a reason; Ainz ain't an exeption - nor is anyone (including me)

[novel oracle]

He took the least damage and still dealt a decent amount of damage considering the loadout

[leaden fable]

Ainz also posts plenty of clips of dying horribly because it's funny

[woeful hill]

ye

I dont remember that game but thats me

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, true

[main trellis]

man; least dmg taken cause was dead & dmg for the weapons used? fair but might be elevated cause grenades (unless smokes)

[woeful hill]

was using smoke

[mighty belfry]

If anything I just wouldn't mind carapace ADMs being adjusted in general

[low harbor]

I think most H smiter attacks should have at least 50% carapace ADM baseline if not higher
forn weapons that are meant to be good vs carapace smth like 80~90% would be ok

[novel oracle]

Oh yeah thats a very lowball damage build plus 2 deaths really tanks the damage too

[main trellis]

then props to you

[lilac ermine]

Its ok im not angri

I just making my point to cole

[mighty belfry]

But knowing Fatshark, that isn't happening.

[novel oracle]

That some weapons/builds are significantly stronger by a large margin?

[low harbor]

it's not impossible, just lerp number changes

[novel oracle]

I know that

[mighty belfry]

I still don't think it's a good point. Wanting to run something offmeta doesn't mean someone's actively trying to grief the game or something like that.

Meta shit's boring.

[lilac ermine]

That the rest of team dont like when someone does that

Ik the ppl using it dont care

[leaden fable]

Noob mentality tbh

[novel oracle]

Thats not really a good argument though

[woeful hill]

it was also my havoc mission, no?

[mighty belfry]

ooooofff...

[lilac ermine]

It was like randoms

[novel oracle]

Like what should we just not run 75% of what exists in the game because its not the best

[mighty belfry]

Yeah, that's a little bit of a yikes if you're saying that about the host of the Havoc lobby.

[novel oracle]

They exist in the game

[mighty belfry]

You know.

The one that is free to run what they want in their own game.

[leaden fable]

Havoc host, must be griefing

[lilac ermine]

Ok so ppl can grief if they are the host

[mighty belfry]

No. They can just play what they want.

[leaden fable]

You grief every time you type, what of it

[novel oracle]

Grief implies they had ill intent

[mighty belfry]

Because they don't demote. And they're free to do that if they want to have fun.

[novel oracle]

Is it wrong to play the game with the weapons you want

[main trellis]

BOI; using off meta ain't griefing
get it right & go to sleep

[novel oracle]

Is winning the only thing that matters

Do you play the game to see the mission complete screen

[mighty belfry]

If they wanted to grief, they can just stand and do nothing. Or barrel you off the map.

[novel oracle]

Or do you play to engage in the game

[lilac ermine]

If u watched that game thats what was happening basically

[mighty belfry]

I can see, by the damage numbers.

That is not what happened.

[drifting heron]

Yes
Have you even been paying attention

[lilac ermine]

A veteran standing in back like a camo vet like 1 mile behind whole team

[mighty belfry]

I think you're a little more salty about being "griefed" here, than you say you are if you're really using this rhetoric

[main trellis]

i would say its a nice lil bonus but not required (unless your teammates make dumb mistakes despite being experienced & you don't win a single game in a night session then i get upset)

[mighty belfry]

If I'll be honest.

[leaden fable]

Went afk and killed 70 ranged elites and 53 specials, as one does

[mighty belfry]

I wouldn't go into someone else's lobby to complain about what they're running.

[lilac ermine]

Just standing in back whole game 1 mile away from rest of team

[mighty belfry]

That's their choice.

[novel oracle]

A game that went super crazy but lost is what id rather have than a game that went so insanely smooth cuz nothing happened and win

[lilac ermine]

yes the least in the game

[main trellis]

most likely taking care of specials that went after ya & taking advantage of the terain & lack of enemies pestering them
DO YOU KNOW WHAT STRATEGY MEANS?

[brittle sierra]

I do 😈

[lilac ermine]

Less specials and elites than anyone else..

[leaden fable]

Underperforming is a punishable offense apparently

[brittle sierra]

League players:

[leaden fable]

Better out damage shiv rampage scum and inferno staff psyker by front lining with vet

[lilac ermine]

Its not punishable bc no one punishing anyone

[novel oracle]

The psyker killed about as much specialist and disablers as he did specialists alone

[main trellis]

he died and that tanks the kills + since your observation skills are rather non-existing i'm more inclined to believe you did not notice the work he was putting

[lilac ermine]

We had arb too but they rage quit when they went down

[novel oracle]

Are you sure youre reading your own scoreboard correctly

[leaden fable]

Right but the vet is the one griefing apparently

[mighty belfry]

...specials?

[lilac ermine]

Ok compared to the hive scum

Who is not even ranged hive scum

[calm aurora]

w

[novel oracle]

The hive scum that was alive longer too

[main trellis]

thats a block right there; you do not condemn your team to a loss like that in Havoc

[brittle sierra]

What if people are bad at the game

🤯

[novel oracle]

Being dead means youre not getting kills

[mighty belfry]

This is cringy.

[lilac ermine]

It was over already I kept reviving the whole team

[mighty belfry]

Like you're really just making excuses to be upset about someone running what they want to run in their own game.

That's just low.

If you don't want to run into this issue.

Get your own 40.

[main trellis]

best part is; due to the... ekhem... SKILL ISSUE that won't happen soon
(Jesus i'm such a dick tonight; i need to be sick more often)

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I've lost the patience.

[brittle sierra]

Indeed resume reviewer 😈

[mighty belfry]

This is just a shitty way of looking at someone running offmeta stuff.

How DARE

you try

to have FUN

in YOUR LOBBY

I joined this 40 because I want to WIN

By any means NECESSARY

[main trellis]

@mighty belfry Its okay; log off discord & go to sleep - its a choice

[mighty belfry]

It is 3pm.

[brittle sierra]

Ok and?

[main trellis]

oh right i forgot timelines exist...

its midnight here...

I SHOULD BE GOING TO SLEEP

[mighty belfry]

Nah that's cowardly, break the night until the sun comes up

Then try to sleep

And be annoyed by the morning birds

[main trellis]

tbh its not great now cause the sickness really make me sleep more (still weak, loss of appetite ect.)

[lilac ermine]

No im just saying they should take into account the ppl playing with them

[mighty belfry]

Aaahhh, fair enough.

[lilac ermine]

Like the arb rage quit

[mighty belfry]

Except. They don't have to.

Because it's

Their

Lobby.

If you want to play, to win a 40, and use all meta options possible. You just simply need to get your own 40 then.

It's that simple.

[main trellis]

caught a nasty virus infection in 1 day
monday a lil cough and i though it was the smog
tuesday i'm nailed to bed for hours with great pain...

[lilac ermine]

Thats not rlly good way of thinking not thinking of other people

[mighty belfry]

Neither is assuming someone is griefing because they want to have fun in their game.

Arguably, that's even shittier of a thought process.

[main trellis]

THATS SOO FKING HYPOCRITICAL

coming from you

[novel oracle]

HYPER CRITICAL????

[low harbor]

cole brainrot

[hollow leaf]

Yes, a melee build, I use a melee build half the time and when I do I use the fent gun.

[main trellis]

No Cole; calm down its ok

[low harbor]

maybe cole should look at my suggestions more to fix his low blood pressure

[mighty belfry]

YOO WAIT

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[lilac ermine]

Ppl used to call camo veterans griefers

[mighty belfry]

THAT'S SO FUCKED

[lilac ermine]

While they were just trying to have fun

[mighty belfry]

Those people are losers.

[low harbor]

I could come up with so much worse

https://klipy.com/gifs/devious-evil-cat

[lilac ermine]

If u care abt ppl just wanting to have fun why keep wanting to nerf desperado and pickpocket

[drifting heron]

Because they make only 1 person per lobby have fun

[lilac ermine]

Is it bc it makes it ruins your fun

[mighty belfry]

This is so disingenious.

Yeah I'm truly done here.

[lilac ermine]

Ppl dont like answering hard questions

[novel oracle]

Significantly more than another player using something that isnt playing the game for them

[mighty belfry]

No. I just know you're too stubborn to actually accept the answer to that question given what you've already said here today.

[main trellis]

only pickpocket tbh imo

[mighty belfry]

There's no point.

[mighty belfry]

Agreed. Desperado is alright by itself.

[novel oracle]

I can retype out my suggested changes to desperado pickpocket and vultures mark to all intertwine them, make them interact better, and reign in the parts that need it

And yes
it includes some buffs in there

[low harbor]

pickpocket is a difficult one because it completely bypasses the game's ammo economy system for very little cost
which, when combined with high ranged dps build or needle pistol makes them too effective for too little investment
there should be a balance between power and investment

and the other half of the issue is, pickpocket nerf would also directly affect ranged dps build's viability and likely cause ranged dps build to be a net negative for a team given the amount of ammo they have to schlurp up

just because it's not easy to nerf doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed

[sand tendon]

does this include a buff to dual autos pushing you back so you can now float along the ground as you fire?

[lilac ermine]

Ok but psyker

[novel oracle]

Yes

[low harbor]

yea psyker should get nerfed

[novel oracle]

Which is a problem for the same reason

[mighty belfry]

Everyone and their mother knows psyker needs nerfs.

[low harbor]

did u not hear when I said smth like psyker needs ~95 nerfs

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-gif-gif-13236175684798649698

[lilac ermine]

Nerf psykers ammo to be limited then?

[low harbor]

like 500 other times

no

I have a way dumber idea

nerf their toughness to 5 and remove their toughness talent nodes (this is a joke)

[novel oracle]

Peril needs to be changed to matter

[lilac ermine]

Well psykers have existed with unlimited ammo since the games start

So why even care abt pickpocket

[novel oracle]

Because it currently doesn't
AND scriers makes it matter even less

[sand tendon]

5% chance on reaching 90% peril (from either direction) to spawn a chaos spawn

[main trellis]

Needler & toxin ADM

[novel oracle]

Guess how long its needed changes

[drifting heron]

Murder is bad so lets ignore assault

[sand tendon]

50% on 100% peril

[novel oracle]

Guess how long psykers been the best class in the game

Because it ignores every single part of the games systems that make it what it is

[lilac ermine]

Psykers was pretty bad in beginning

[novel oracle]

Ammo economy, avoiding attacks, and enemy density/cleave

Psyker gets to just ignore those

[low harbor]

staff weapons are supposed to have their power balanced around being not ammo dependent (even if they currently don't)
guns on the other hand, are not

[lilac ermine]

Psykers also have the most mods in the modding place

Some mods let you not blow up so theres no downside to peril

[drifting heron]

Is that relevant

[lilac ermine]

Makes their downside non existent for ammo

[mighty belfry]

What downside

[drifting heron]

You shouldn't balance around mods

Thats some semi extreme mental gymnastics

[lilac ermine]

Also have the most macros

[compact oyster]

cole hear me out on this

[jaunty coral]

if there are mods that negate peril overload, those should be banned i think lol sounds too cheaty

[lilac ermine]

Theres like 2-3

[low harbor]

psyker is so op that even if u allow vet to run 5 blessings on power sword he'd still be less than half as good as psyker

[jaunty coral]

if you mean a timer that tells you warp unbound time, i dont consider that the same

[compact oyster]

when scrier runs out and you use warp unbound there should be a 20 second period where you cannot use warp attacks

[lilac ermine]

It stops you from exploding

[jaunty coral]

considering how buggy the buff bar is, yet it exists

[lilac ermine]

By quelling automatically or something

And not attacking

[jaunty coral]

ah

ya thats cheaty

[novel oracle]

Desperado now starts at 100% chance to dodge ranged and has a flat drain on that chance as the ability is active, kills restore a flat amount of that percent
Vultures dodge is now a flat x% chance to dodge attacks per stack, which pairs nicely plugging any gaps in desperado
Pickpocket is moved into vultures mark replacing vultures push, and now gives 20% ammo when under 20% instead of rounding up, but can only trigger at max stacks and consumes them instead, vultures mark now also grants stacks from melee kills baseline

[low harbor]

sounds ok

[sand tendon]

vulture's mark saved my marriage

[lilac ermine]

Percent chance to dodge what

[drifting heron]

As opposed to guaranteed chance to dodge?

[lilac ermine]

Crit based

[novel oracle]

All of the points you just made just show that the people who play psyker play them because they find cheating fun

Because thats basically what playing psyker is like

[novel oracle]

Wdym

[jaunty coral]

been tweaking my builds for knife (old knife, i use both models but lets assume mk 6)
been having fun with a rampage + high crit version with chem. dep.

is this a good way to run it? Anything im missing?
(i go straight down the middle through Nimble, but not grabbing jittery)

[lilac ermine]

Pickpocket being vulture mark only would be bad for alot of builds

[drifting heron]

Oh no you have to not have infinite ammo on your melee build

Whatever will you do

[jaunty coral]

i swapped to running both HC + HV based on WIP guide's comments/discussion the other day, and i think it does feel better? its hard to tell without specific testing i have to say

but sometimes i do notice things just die

[novel oracle]

Infinite ammo from a blue node is fucking insanely stupid

[drifting heron]

It would only effect a ranged spam build that somehow uses both dependency and box

[novel oracle]

That power should always have been locked behind something build defining

like a keystone

[mighty belfry]

There's one reason.

[novel oracle]

Which is what they do

[mighty belfry]

And one reason very particularly.

That I love using both

[jaunty coral]

should i be pushing for that 4th stack for the extra 5% crit? not sure i need even more crit.
Should i have the rending node? etc

[jaunty coral]

and that is?

[mighty belfry]

Guarantees one shots on mutants very consistently.

[jaunty coral]

https://klipy.com/gifs/stressed-out-suspense

[lilac ermine]

"Desperado now starts at 100% chance to dodge ranged and has a flat drain on that chance as the ability is active, kills restore a flat amount of that percent" thats just nerf to desperado

[jaunty coral]

ah ya

the worst is when you have like 80%+ crit, and dont crit 3x in a row

[lilac ermine]

Desperado isnt even that strong

[mighty belfry]

If your crit ain't doing enough damage to one shot, don't worry.

It doesn't have to.

[jaunty coral]

and you're hitting the mutant 3...4...times and its not dying

it DOES happen

[low harbor]

merely gamble better

[mighty belfry]

That's the unfortunate reality of a crit build

Gambling.

Even a high number can come with slip-ups.

[jaunty coral]

ya it happens lol

[novel oracle]

Oh I forgot to include that desperado could get a bit of damage and/or reload speed while active

In exchange

[mighty belfry]

And the slip-ups are way more noticeable than the ramp-ups

[low harbor]

kinda funny that both vet and hvs are gambling classes

[lilac ermine]

Good build if you dont feel like your running out of ammo alot you can dump pickpocket and hypercritical for jittery and blitz tox

[novel oracle]

The thing that solves is just using desperado and just getting to ignore guns without actually using it for what it was intended for

[jaunty coral]

my build above tho - im missing rending on rampage, im not taking 4 chem dep. stacks (but crit is high already w/ knife and reposte)
is it a solid build? is there anything i should consider changing? ill usually try out any suggestion and see how it feels

[lilac ermine]

Usually with veteran on team or not havoc the pickpocket is not needed on melee build

[jaunty coral]

when i run needle pistol, i just always run pickpocket bc its op af and fun.
but i do drop it if i run dual stubs, bc i only use them here or there. And i pick up the extra stack of chem depenandcy, rending on ramapge, or jittery (usually jittery lol) one of those 3

[novel oracle]

Like just casting desperado and just getting a free rez because full immunity is stupid or just sprinting past all of the guns and melee cant keep up because of the sprint speed

[lilac ermine]

Then pickpocket better

[low harbor]

rampage rending is not required for most weapons (only swords tbh)

[novel oracle]

At least with that change youd need to work for it by making sure vultures mark is maxxed to pull that off

[jaunty coral]

ya, i dont really feel the need on knife

and i used to just always take jittery

but got convinced not to crutch it here

so now im not using it

[mighty belfry]

if anything disagrees, feel free to

I think quick and deadly's kinda overrated. Rending on Rampage is nice but, depending on the build, might not need it, and an extra point to get 4 stacks but make your stimms more awkward to use is just not worth it to me

[jaunty coral]

you guys are evil btw

[novel oracle]

I know

[jaunty coral]

LET A MAN HAVE FUN WITH HIS OP FUNNY DODGES

gotta give me a superiority complex...geeze

🤣

[mighty belfry]

Also for knife

I do think using Battering is a good idea.

[sturdy linden]

why, just use it if you enjoy it

[jaunty coral]

honeslty i didnt used to take quick and deadly, but i swapped to taking it bc i saw some others doing and monkee brain saw another 15% dmg node

[sturdy linden]

I like cosplaying as Murderous Michael Jackson

[jaunty coral]

im open to dropping it

[compact oyster]

Nimble is funny cause you can launch yourself off of ledges

[low harbor]

ofc I am, did yall not realize

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[novel oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/meevin-cat-pulse-gif-27029372

[woeful hill]

evil guide maker

[mighty belfry]

While it of course will happen, the uptime isn't crazy on Quick and Deadly.

[compact oyster]

Satans emmisary...

[mighty belfry]

And 15% extra damage is nice, but not enough imho to be connected to a finicky proc condition

Which is ironic because I run riposte and precog on shivs lol

[calm aurora]

put pickpocket in vulture, pb solved no?

[jaunty coral]

haha, im teasing. More i have the same 'git gud' mindset as these guys and when i started playing hive scum i just crutched what was op, but then i noticed how i had a bad time playing other classes after hivescum, heard the opinions here about not needing Jittery etc, and also decided i didnt want to crutch it that hard and ruin my muscle memory for all classes xD

so it was my decision

[sturdy linden]

I tried this on boxcutters yesterday and it was fun

[jaunty coral]

im just memeing bc they made a good argument not to need it

[low harbor]

kinda
I think pickpocket still need nerf even after that to make it less available

[mighty belfry]

Run it on stabbies

I promise you. Heavy spam gets nuts with stabby shivs.

[sturdy linden]

I might because the nerfed version of Uncanny that shivs have isn't that nuts compared to how baseline strong the weapon is

[calm aurora]

yeah, maybe 5% instead of 20

and only on range kills

[mighty belfry]

A few games ago I managed to one shot three crushers in a row with that setup lmao

[low harbor]

because pickpocket in vulture only really nerfs needler chemist build, it doesn't affect ranged dps spam

[novel oracle]

#hivescum-class message

[jaunty coral]

give it a 10 second cooldown, so you can only get back the 1/3 of your ammo every 10s. or 20s, idk im not a dev.
give it a reasonable cooldown so it still functions like infinite ammo, but it asks you to pace yourself or you will still run dry for short periods.

this allows the needle pistol to be reigned back a tad (from peopel who literally spam it like a ranged dueling sword) but still feel op and do its job if you want.

best compromise?

[mighty belfry]

The damage you ramp up from precog and riposte on hordes gets bonkers.

[compact oyster]

Just make pickpocket melee like bounty hunter

[low harbor]

I think 20% would be ok if it had a very lengthy cooldown

like 90s CD or smth

[compact oyster]

Then replace desperado with a very high damage single shot from a weapon

[mighty belfry]

Infinite damage ramping is balanced btw

[sand tendon]

hive scum become bounty hunter

[mighty belfry]

Totally fine.

[zenith salmon]

Totally

[sand tendon]

@novel oracle have you put in any feedback about crowbar?

[jaunty coral]

ya maybe 20s was way too generous, even a minute would maybe be ok, bc you could dump pretty quickly if you're spamming shots but otherwise you could pace yourself and be ok

[novel oracle]

That one clip of me 1 shotting a dh after fighting a horde for a bit

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/vermintide-warhammer-end-times-war-clash-gif-16461643

[sturdy linden]

if the next major patch doesn't have serious Ogryn adjustments I am going to be very sad

[compact oyster]

Victor switch em down saltzpyre

[novel oracle]

Yes, others have too, and ive also forwarded jambles doc

[sand tendon]

i hate you there was no bounty hunter in there

[low harbor]

u'll most likely be very sad

[sturdy linden]

I know

[mighty belfry]

I think the best I've gotten is like

[sturdy linden]

but at least I don't need to pre-sad

I can copium

[zenith salmon]

Big man honestly needs it after that nerf that made him feel like if that whole rework last year didn’t even matter (and God please rework the right side of the frigging tree)

[mighty belfry]

75% of a weakened plague ogryn's health in h40.

My jaw dropped dude.

[novel oracle]

Granted that clip was pre launch when HV was 3s

[sturdy linden]

classic FS anti-Ogryn abooss, buffs big man through the roof and utterly invalidates him in a few months

[pallid quail]

its just gonna be a bunch of insignificant nerfs

[zenith salmon]

Arby was lucky to survive it…..ogryn sadly didn’t

[calm aurora]

the day ogryn is buffed we get 15k hp crusher with super carapace the following update

[low harbor]

cole wdyt abt giving ogryn swift slaying

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[novel oracle]

Yeah thats me rn

[low harbor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[compact oyster]

Imagine giving ogryn hyper violence lmao

[novel oracle]

Ogryn needs 2 things
Ways to handle getting shot at
Specific weapon adjustments

Thats about it

[low harbor]

i think strongest class with hyperviolence would be either vet or zealot tbh

[calm aurora]

maybe give them a talent like thick skin with 20% passive reduction against range dmg

[sturdy linden]

at the risk of sounding like an uppity young whippersnapper, I disagree. It's 2026. Ogryn doesn't need the worst stamina management, worst weapon swap speed, worst dodge speed, worst dodge distance, and zero dodge linger. A few? Maybe. All of that shit? Fuck no.

[low harbor]

worst stamina management is vet still

[low harbor]

og does have a pretty good ranged DR talent

[sturdy linden]

Vet at least has a talent or two to get stamina back

Ogryn doesn't even have that

[novel oracle]

Slam

[sturdy linden]

which is gated, so I didn't include it, unlike Vet talents

[zenith salmon]

And just a tad bit of adjustment to speed (like swap and aiming). Not completely like the other classes, but just to the point where you can still do those fast swaps and aims

[novel oracle]

Actually arguably one of the best talents for that

[pallid quail]

cant hit me again is shitty n only shitty players who are constantly out of position get any benefit from it

[novel oracle]

1s is almost nothing

[low harbor]

nobody takes duck & dive, and vet has no real build flexibility
if vet could access the -0.25s delay easier I'd agree, but no, vet is worst stamina management

slam is 1 point access across almost all builds

[sturdy linden]

ok fine both suck then, happy now?

rest of my litany of complaints still stand

[calm aurora]

fuck you're right

[low harbor]

why

[calm aurora]

maybe make it passive?

I never have enought point for it

[compact oyster]

Doesnt this stack independantly above global DR?

[jaunty coral]

i wasnt into vt2 as much, is this a joke about a mechanic from one of the vt2 classes or did you actually do this in dt outside of some stealth zealot shenanigans?

[calm aurora]

that's good lol

[low harbor]

most builds that go taunt can take this pretty easily

[sturdy linden]

again, if at least SOME of these issues were solved / buffed alongside very significant weapon buffs / overhauls, a LOT more people would love Ogryn

[low harbor]

oh nvm the downtime is 4s

CD starts after it activates

I remembered wrong

got mixed up with SoC

[calm aurora]

:/

[sturdy linden]

and call me cooked but getting 5% stamina once every second from attacking is pretty shit IMO even if the talent is good for other reasons so I still hate Ogryn stamina management

[zenith salmon]

And don’t forget about fixing that right side cuz there’s no way they looking at that dumpster fire and saying it’s in a good spot

[low harbor]

SoC is CD starts as soon as it activates

CHMA is not bad tho

[sturdy linden]

eh I think the problem is the weapons more than the right side talents themselves tbh

[compact oyster]

This is genuinely a thing

[low harbor]

it's most applicable vs stalker bursts and gunners

[compact oyster]

Cole backstabbed 3 poxwalkers then instakill backstacked a daemonhost

[novel oracle]

@jaunty coral

[zenith salmon]

Yeah tbh I was exaggerating it but I’m saying they need to find a way to prevent point blank barrage from swallowing all the ammo (desperado is a good example to build ideas without reskin)

[sturdy linden]

were you heavy attacking on purpose just to test this out

[novel oracle]

No this was an example
I knew it worked this way

[sturdy linden]

ah

[novel oracle]

I recorded it to show it

[jaunty coral]

wait wait lol i dont get it - does hyper violence stack? I thought you kill a target, and it applies the overkill to the next target,

how are you getting SUCH high overkill here? lol damn

[sturdy linden]

that was pretty silly to watch ngl lol

[pallid quail]

cus it only provides ranged dr which can be achieved by using cover

[compact oyster]

It doesnt have a cap

[sturdy linden]

uncapped and it can feed into itself

[compact oyster]

So the overkill damage keeps stacking ontop of eachother

[jaunty coral]

so as long as you keep 1 shotting targets, it keeps building?

[pallid quail]

maybe calling it shitty was excessive but its pretty mid

[jaunty coral]

does this still work if you run HC with it too?

[novel oracle]

Because its including the damage it added to the hit itself

[novel oracle]

HC can get in the way of this

[compact oyster]

Kill 1 poxwalker overkill damage gets added onto the next poxwalker kill which increases overkill damage etc etc

[novel oracle]

Hv is 1s so its a tight window

Hc can just fuck you over

[low harbor]

if HC activates (instakills smth that u otherwise wouldn't kill in 1 hit), yes

[compact oyster]

Hyper critical is an instakill effect so it doesnt generate overkill damage

[sturdy linden]

you kill -> hit damage minus target HP difference applies to attacks for next 1s -> you kill -> same thing happens again and you get a bigger bonus because your hit damage is higher -> repeat

[low harbor]

however if ur crit just kills in 1 hit

HC has no effect

HC can only activate in situations where u wouldn't get a 1 hit kill

[jaunty coral]

so why am i running them together, that doesnt look too hard to replicate in a real game if you're just constantly stabbing lol

i guess it doesnt happen as often if you correctly aim weakspot etc

[low harbor]

Because HC instakills stuff u wouldn’t kill in 1 hit otherwise and most of the time u want more things dead faster as opposed to chunking 1 guy harder

[novel oracle]

Idk
Why are you running them together

[sturdy linden]

HC, as I understood it, is basically a Boolean of IF:Critical=TRUE AND IF:TargetHP<2xCriticalHit AND IF:CriticalHit<TargetHP

and in my experience HC + HV has a higher floor but lower ceiling iykwim, compared to HV only

[low harbor]

If any of these 3 conditions are not met, HC doesn’t activate

Higher floor is usually better because again, most of the time u want more things dead faster

[novel oracle]

Id argue otherwise on scum because scums floor on melee is pretty damn high

[low harbor]

There’s an argument to be made for sure

[jaunty coral]

i wasnt, but was advised it was good

[novel oracle]

Ive found more value out of hitting one guy so hard it kills them regardless of crits or not just because he was near someone else

[mighty belfry]

This debate will never cease.

[low harbor]

But given pickpocket being op, hypercrit is the obvious best talent going into it

[mighty belfry]

Personally, I think it's fine if you don't run hypercritical with hyperviolence.

[sturdy linden]

the best part about it is that you can choose what you like because only people like Cat would care about what you're running, as long as you enjoy yourself and contribute

[mighty belfry]

But I do think it has value depending on the weapon you're using to run both.

[low harbor]

Hypercrit’s biggest value is in using lower damage attacks to instakill ragers

It’s quite effective at getting rid of mixed horde melee pressure

[novel oracle]

Hyperviolence is similar because mixed hordes make it scale super high super fast and with it being a flat number added onto the hit, it scales super well with all of the methods of cleave scum has, cleave, power, hitmass, and especially brutal momentum

You very quickly reach one shots on elites just cuz of the density

[compact oyster]

Doesnt work that well with crowbar tho

[low harbor]

Crowbar got quite a bit better from the 1.10.6 update

Cheap shots buff
Rampage rending

[novel oracle]

After the first kill it adds a ton more damage

[compact oyster]

But you need to setup and flip to get consistent elite kills

[low harbor]

No

[compact oyster]

By that time its already run out

[novel oracle]

If you spam heavies, the first is a strikedown so a kill from that makes the next sweep heavy nuclear

[low harbor]

Just do H1 + L2 with blunt mode

H1 can 1 tap both ragers

Pretty easily

[jaunty coral]

i didnt do it with enemies active, not sure it matters - any idea why it didn't work? I also didnt build up my crit at all not sure that matters but obvously crit = more dmg, but i dont feel like it applied overkill dmg here, or did it?

not using HC here, just HV

[novel oracle]

Because i said earlier that the video is from when HV was 3s

[jaunty coral]

oh sorry, i missed that. So you could stack it longer and easier i guess?

so this is no longer possible?

[novel oracle]

Yes

[jaunty coral]

if im attacking within 1s intervals tho, does it not still stack the same?

just making sure i understand lol

[novel oracle]

Its much harder to scale it vs before which is a good thing, it was so broken

[jaunty coral]

ya i see

for sure lol

[compact oyster]

3 seconds right?

[novel oracle]

I was doing that in a solo lights out boss maelstrom to every dh and boss on the map

[jaunty coral]

lmao man that sounds fun tho ngl

[sturdy linden]

[jaunty coral]

this was in test realm b4 launch?

[novel oracle]

Sent that run to the devs as like a "HV is a problem"

[low harbor]

Arthiio would be proud

[novel oracle]

Cutting the duration that much was basically a bandaid

Its still strong but its just not realistic to reach that level of insanity

[low harbor]

U can still do pretty silly things with it

[novel oracle]

Yeah

[low harbor]

Rashad crusher 1 tap fair & balanced

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[jaunty coral]

sorry to sidetrack - what stimm do you guys use btw for the standard desperado/uzi's build?
pure cooldown on ranged kill stimm perhaps?

[low harbor]

Works
Could also get 2 tiers on strength

It’s only 6s longer stim recharge

[novel oracle]

I used just pure flat cdr but I've not played scum in a while

[compact oyster]

Inb4 chain glaive is horribly overpowered because its special does multiple ticks of damage

[novel oracle]

Plus stim changez happened

[novel oracle]

This came to you in a dream im sure

[compact oyster]

It came to me by a vision in the desert

Crit special once and you have like 6 toxin stacks

[jaunty coral]

ive run rending and just shot crushers before when in desperado, it kinda works, but i dont think good lol

kinda fun tho

man a chain glaive would be so cool

any glaive/pike tbh

[sand tendon]

how come there's no spears in this game

they'd be so easy to procure just get a knife on a stick

[low harbor]

Smth smth James wokshop

[astral canyon]

Chaive

[heady trellis]

Full fire rate, nothing else

[mighty belfry]

Alright. So given some guidance from earlier.

[near mauve]

i want a hallberd

or a glaive

POWER GLAIVE

[novel oracle]

Because fuck you

[near mauve]

POWER CLAWS?

POWERFIST?

[mighty belfry]

Crow bar.

[mighty belfry]

Might not be bad actually.

[near mauve]

WHERE ARE THE POWER WEAPONS

[astral canyon]

behind you

[jaunty coral]

oh interesting, i guess that is dps

how worth it is chem toxin on crit for knife (MK 6) rampage build? H40 - i feel like it does help with hordeclear, and we have basically no dot otherwise if not running needle

[heady trellis]

I mainly do it because I find the high fire rate amusing but yes it does work from a practical standpoint.

[mighty belfry]

i wouldn't run it if you don't have a means of consistently inflicting toxin

one stack on crit isn't a lot. shivs get away with it because of the special knives

[low harbor]

it is nice since rampage doesn't drain stam anymore

idk what 2nd blessing to run for it tho

[covert obsidian]

1000 heavy kills during cartel specials is so cancer

becuase of the heavy attack kills part

using only heavies is fucking griefing lmao

who designed this?

[low harbor]

heavy sword

[covert obsidian]

ew

[sturdy linden]

#hivescum-class message

[covert obsidian]

Interesting

[pseudo latch]

what's the best gun for gunscum atm?

aside from fent™

[low harbor]

Vraks V

[sturdy linden]

err why would you use fentgun for desperado scum..

[pseudo latch]

are the duelist pistols/uzis not in contention?

[dim moth]

I mean they're okay but like

[sturdy linden]

they're very good but Vraks IAG is just the most insane gun there is

[dim moth]

They have the worst crit stats of any gun in the game including ogryn weapons

[pseudo latch]

i see

[limber cradle]

I prefer DAPs to Vraks fwiw

The mobility feels way better

[sturdy linden]

same

[pseudo latch]

and use melee/boom for armor?

[pseudo latch]

DAP?

[sturdy linden]

yeah

[limber cradle]

Macs

Uzis

[pseudo latch]

i see

i don't really like the damage on them personally

[sturdy linden]

I tried Vraks, damage is higher by a solid margin but it just doesn't capture the desperado feels

[pseudo latch]

not as nice as the vraks

[limber cradle]

Vraks only feels better to me at excessive ranges

[pseudo latch]

and desperado doesn't feel very good rn

[bronze glade]

vraks is the boring sweat option

[sturdy linden]

can also recommend trying Brauto, it's kinda fun lol

[pseudo latch]

i mean fent + daggers is the sweat option

[limber cradle]

Nah

[sturdy linden]

again, I have no idea why tf you'd use fentgun on Desperado

[limber cradle]

Desp Vraks is defo the sweat option

[pseudo latch]

as in

the "meta" strategy for hscum

[limber cradle]

Yes

[sturdy linden]

yeah on Rampage sure

or box for that matter

[pseudo latch]

box gun scum is what im on rn

its pretty fun

[sturdy linden]

I love box

[limber cradle]

I hate box sm

I'm glad people like it tho

[pseudo latch]

duality of man

[sturdy linden]

I'm a box + Saw lover

(yes I am clinically diagnosed how did you guess)

[limber cradle]

You're in a 40k discord

[pseudo latch]

Saw feels like dogshit in my hands

its probably really good but i just cannot use it

[limber cradle]

Nah I hate it too

I only like Shivs for scum melees

And tbh its entirely cause the throwing knife on them feels cool as fuck to cross map stuff with

[pseudo latch]

idk how mister e uses cleaver

[limber cradle]

Tbf that guys an idiot

[sturdy linden]

Mr Pee with meme tierlists

[bronze glade]

dw it's not you

weapon's kinda shit

very poorly designed

[sturdy linden]

I am just endeared to its novelty

[limber cradle]

Shivs are just knife++ while crowbar is shovel-- and saw is

It exists ig

[bronze glade]

has the same moveset as ASM technically

except it's so shit

that you're better off just light spamming

[low harbor]

Wanna play event later

[sturdy linden]

trying to get my work done ASAP, so hopefully yes

but today want to play some psyker or arbi maybe idk

[low harbor]

sure watever u want

[mystic rain]

Would i be able to use my build with shivs even tho i have it optimised for rashad?