hivescum-class

[hasty agate]

Is Cheap Shots worth taking now?

[zenith fern]

After mission

[low harbor]

mortis electric boogaloo

[mighty belfry]

It's. Better.

[low harbor]

depends

[hasty agate]

On?

[low harbor]

what weapons ur using

[mighty belfry]

But you'd probably need specific setups or a team that leans on a lot of CC

[low harbor]

it's mainly for crowbar

[manic wolf]

No there hasnt been, but it was part of the skill-floor in regards to playing the class, which after unkillable god type characters, it was nice to have, even if it could be harsh

[hasty agate]

Well crowbar is what I’m using

[zenith fern]

Cheap shots only counts for fully staggered?

[low harbor]

the tooltip is also wrong (ofc it is)
it's +dmg, not +strength

[zenith fern]

Or I am mistaking with another talent

[manic wolf]

That... that makes the buff notably worse outright

[low harbor]

no?

[zenith fern]

Big 2026 and the fish Swedish still makes misspells

[low harbor]

I think it's ok

[hasty agate]

What I really need to know is if cheap shots is good enough now that it’s worth taking over Hyper-Violence

[low harbor]

it's pretty niche still

[mighty belfry]

Absolutely not.

Not even close.

[low harbor]

not in this lifetime

[hasty agate]

Simple enough

[manic wolf]

It's Ok, but given what +STR provides, that is a downgrade on what its listed as. The buff is still nice, it doesnt change anything outside of make it more avaliable, but i doubt it'l be something I consider taking now I know its just damage

[mighty belfry]

Strength is better though...

[manic wolf]

Yes, but Cheap Shots is just +damage, as Path said

[mighty belfry]

I suppose actually ya that does make sense.

[manic wolf]

Hence im not going to really consider it, because its not Strength as listed

[mighty belfry]

If the tip is wrong.

[manic wolf]

Yer

[untold sonnet]

Would stimm supply count for the cartel special penances?

[hasty agate]

Is Adrenaline Unbound (5% toughness replen. while adrenaline frenzy is active) worth taking?

[low harbor]

it's still ok, given the biggest chunk of dmg increase for hvs is in the form of str and dmg is multiplicative to str

[manic wolf]

Hmm, true. I did just think maybe it would be good on TacAxe due to that always staggering trash on cleave and thusly feeding more potential into Hyperviolence, but will need to test it to see if its worth

[manic wolf]

It's decent enough if you feel like you need more toughness

[low harbor]

the main issue is that it only works while enemies are staggered which for most weapons is a pretty short time window

but it's better for chain-weapons and crowbar

[manic wolf]

Indeed, though TacAxe is fast enough to make use of the small stagger duration on most trash enemies. Not really concepting the idea to kill them faster ofc, just to funnel more damage into HV

[hasty agate]

I tried dropping it and taking cheap shots over it. Didn’t feel any difference in damage with cheap shots so I’m just gona keep AU

[manic wolf]

With Crowbar?

[mental trellis]

yes worth taking

[hasty agate]

Yeah

[blissful gull]

did the dodge change hurt scum?

[dull dagger]

I feel like I don't properly get how to use this chemist build and so it feels underwhelming. Specifically the stimm and the ability. I think the ability makes my poison more pot so my bone saw feels much less anaemic and my needler does big DoTs. I'm meant to pop stimms off cooldown and it has CDR but I need to use it before the ability otherwise it won't let me use it straight after. I feel like if I'm spamming stimm but not using my ability since there's no need, the CDR from the stimm is just being wasted and making the 69s cooldown less worthwhile.

[thorny ginkgo]

channeled aggression or forged below i gotta pick one for my rampage shiv build

[supple torrent]

are you talking about crate?

[dull dagger]

Yeah both the stimm and the crate.

[supple torrent]

You don't really need to do that. Its only necessary if you wan to stack chemical depdency faster

Or if you want to break the cooldown so you can drop the crate and then get it back from your stimm

[unreal stirrup]

forge bellow is even less desirable now lmao

not like it was a good pick before

channeled aggression now even better for weapon that need rending

[supple torrent]

Depending on how well you play and how good you are at getting toxin kills the Stimm CDR is only useful for your team.

[dull dagger]

This is basically the build I'm trying to use. https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a10d3d71-f8b9-42df-aae0-a7adbcae4ffa/chemist-6

[supple torrent]

Unless you're trying to quickly stack chem dependency just use your crate with the stimm.

That way you can buff your whole team.

[dull dagger]

So just count stimm and crate as a bundle and use them at the same time when I need my ability?

[supple torrent]

I'd recommend that. Crate is more of a support tool. Without stimm the only thing its doing is cleansing corruption and applying I think 6 dots

[mighty belfry]

Forge's is actually good though

[dull dagger]

I thought the point of the crate was to make my DoTs cracked.

[supple torrent]

Absolutely not

[unreal stirrup]

no?

[supple torrent]

It spreads your stimms to the entire team

You're probably thinking of the meme crate spam build

[stray bridge]

I kind of feel like this was about to happen

[dull dagger]

I thought that aspect was more of a "bonus if it happens", I was told not to sweat too much about dropping crate next to teammates, but if there's one nearby it's nice to do.

[supple torrent]

Who told you this.

[dull dagger]

Someone in this channel yesterday.

[unreal stirrup]

you can double crate with 75s stim

stim cdr isn't nothing

[thorny ginkgo]

i spam crates with a 75cd on my chem build

[unreal stirrup]

unless they changed it again to not apply stim effect when stim is out

ult cd end = crate

[supple torrent]

That only works with fast acting stimms

[unreal stirrup]

stim cd end after = another crate

no

bruh

[supple torrent]

I mean crate applying the cdr to itself

I like running practical deployment when I don't want to use cdr stimm. Sample collector carries my crate cooldown

[dull dagger]

Since I'm using bone saw I assume I'm getting good mileage out of sample collector.

5 kills is 10% CDR on the stimm.

Toxic Renewel sounds quite good, I assume the build doesn't use it because it's a little out of the way.

[supple torrent]

I use it for easy toughness on scum but there are a few skills along the way that don't benefit scum as much

[dull dagger]

Isn't Cartel Special the stimm, not the crate?

[supple torrent]

yeah cartel special is the stimm

But just call it stimm. Even the game calls it stimm

Oh right sample collector doesnt.

[dull dagger]

How is sample collector reducing your crate cooldown? Because your stimm has CDR so sample collector gets you stimm sooner, you spam that to get CDR on your crate?

[supple torrent]

Theres a node that can refresh your crate whenever your stimm comes off cd

[dull dagger]

Oh snap, lemme see if I have that in my build.

[supple torrent]

You don't have to use it. Its just another option for messing with crate cd

[dull dagger]

Where even is that.

[supple torrent]

Its a sub node for crate

[dull dagger]

Oh found it.

It's like the only one I don't have enabled under that ability.

I like the sound of this, maybe I can sacrifice a node elsewhere and grab that.

It feels more straight forward since I'm essentially getting CDR on my ability via all my kills.

[dull dagger]

Cause I was lost on this.

Maybe I could remove booby trap and grab that instead.

[supple torrent]

Drop slippery customer

Learn to block and slide

[dull dagger]

Not Tis But A Scratch?

That sounds underwhelming.

Normally if I'm getting shot in auric+, the shot just fully empties my toughness or whether I have this ability or not, the second shot will.

Oh but then I need a connecting node so I guess it has to stay.

[supple torrent]

If thats happening to you in auric you're doing something wrong

[dull dagger]

Probably multiple enemies hitting me at the same time.

But I guarantee I'm doing many things wrong.

[supple torrent]

Spam dodge more and regen your stamina.

You can Damage resist with each stamina you have left. And Chem dependency is giving around 15 tdr.

Also you weren't running toxic renewal so you were probably regenning less toughness.

[dull dagger]

Yeah that seems a bit out of the way and it already feels like I don't have a lot of nodes worth sacrificing.

[supple torrent]

Come over to the dark side. If you drop pickpocket and hyper critical thats two whole points

Just don't spam needle pistol like its a lazgun

[amber heath]

the longer i play auric scum the more i realize that grenade spawns aren't real. Chem bomb should have a 30 or 40 kill regen like the flashbang

[supple torrent]

You're just not looking hard or fast enough

[amber heath]

pfffff i wish

[supple torrent]

Where do you think the ogryns get their nades.

[amber heath]

im the fastest crackhead in the west

the generate them in their bellies

duh

[dull dagger]

I actually don't spam my ranged since I don't trust pickpocket. It's probably much more useful in havoc, but in auric if my ammo is <20% I just grab a random ammo pickup. People leave plenty of them lying around.

[amber heath]

Tbh if desperado gave me a grenade on leaving it my life would be complete

[supple torrent]

Personally i think it isn't necessary on aurics. I don't run it in havoc but I personally dont spam ranged weapons

[dull dagger]

If I die in a mission and revive with 0 blitz, I basically expect to find 0 grenade boxes for the rest of the run now. Others grab the nades for themselves.

[amber heath]

that's what im saying is if you 0 out your grenade once you almost never get them back

[supple torrent]

I only really pull out the pistol when we're getting overwhelmed or to burst down a boss. Even though I hate it bonesaw is strong enough to delete most enemies

[amber heath]

auric grenade spawns are near nonexistant and don't get me started on mortis trials

EVERY time i run flashbang i get grenade regen

but i run chem bomb

never

NEVER

seen it

[supple torrent]

Just run ahead of your team and check side paths.

[dull dagger]

I use needler on lone or very small crusher/bulwark/those small human armored guy groups. Any bigger and I just RPG. I also needle faraway specials or elites but that's like 2-3 shots here and there, I think my passive Gunslinger Improved helps keep it topped up.

[amber heath]

"just be an asshole" shouldnt' be required

[supple torrent]

You're kinda screwed on mortis though

It's resource gathering. Scum has two of the best nades in the game. Its benefical for your team to give you them ... if you use them appropriately

[amber heath]

See that's the thing

If i play with a 4 stack

[dull dagger]

Team is oblivious or just doesn't care.

[amber heath]

Life is great

If you solo queue scum

you might as well kys

cuz a veteran will pick up nades

while i sit there

[supple torrent]

I solo quque scum and i have no issues with nades as a launcher spammer

[dull dagger]

Branching off to find your nades is the way, but kinda scary since I'm normally trying to get better at sticking with the team so I'm not separated, and going grenade hunting puts me into the situations I'm trying to avoid.

[supple torrent]

coherency is a meme

[bronze glade]

vets prob the least likely to pick up nades aside from psyker lol

[amber heath]

^thats the point

[mighty belfry]

And yet that doesn't stop them

[amber heath]

Is they shouldn't

[supple torrent]

normalise leaving your team for resource gathering

[bronze glade]

i don't see it often

vets hogging all the ammo? yeah

[amber heath]

Reject Cohesion embrace Scum

[bronze glade]

but nades? not in my games

[mighty belfry]

Bro I've experienced this in high havoc of all fucking places

[dull dagger]

Random matchmaking is people who will run to the same crate you're running to, and spam E blindly not caring what's even in it, so long as they get it before you do.

[supple torrent]

Imma be real I love em. But the most nade hungry class are those damn ogryns

[mighty belfry]

You just get some actual lobotomites sometimes

[supple torrent]

They should have never buffed box

[amber heath]

I reiterate. Chem bomb getting a kill regen like the blinder even at 50 kills would be a godsend

[supple torrent]

No

Thats a red line I don't want crossed.

[amber heath]

Thankfully lmayo you aren't a dev

you'd make RA a base enemy spawn

I'd even be happy with chest never being empty lmao

[mighty belfry]

Just use blackouts if you want a regenerative blitz

Chem nades would straight up be abusively overpowered if they could regen.

They're already plenty strong as is.

[dull dagger]

Don't worry guys, next class will have a passive that lets teammates regen blitz.

[amber heath]

i just get fed up with going 0 and 4 on games in a row with no nade spawns

[mighty belfry]

...next class.

Ain't that a kick in the head.

[supple torrent]

as someone who wanted nade regen on launcher this is the most insane take ive seen here

[amber heath]

which one mine or his

XD

[supple torrent]

yours

[amber heath]

pfff ok

[mighty belfry]

Rocket regen is even more crazy

[amber heath]

^

[supple torrent]

Back when rocket was bad

of course

[mighty belfry]

Okay actually

Fair.

[amber heath]

new suggestion

[mighty belfry]

They did suck.

[amber heath]

make chem bomb bas

bad

then let it regen

[supple torrent]

thats just blackout

[amber heath]

ezpz

FUCK youre right

[plucky nymph]

no they arent, they got nerfed so instead of 1 million dmg they only do 750,000 dmg, to bring them more in line with zealots grenade that does 12 dmg

[supple torrent]

with pocket toxin

The balanced version of your toxin nade spam is right there

[mighty belfry]

I can't believe we have to buff fish tins 😔

I say, as they were technically buffed actually.

[supple torrent]

blackout nades are goated though

I'd use them even if pocket toxin wasnt a node

[amber heath]

It still stands that it's insane that i DONT want to run chem bomb or RPG because i have no clue if im going to only have 3/4 or 20

[mighty belfry]

And in a pretty significant way actually if you bother to run pocket toxin.

...hmm

10 stacks on explosive aoe

That can also be buffed by lethal proximity

[supple torrent]

lethal pogximity

[dull dagger]

I think since I have needler as my ranged option, it serves as a good backup for when I don't have RPGs remaining. So in a pinch I still have options, albeit not as braindead as deleting the entire screen instantly, but I suppose it helps me learn to forage better while still giving me options.

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, now bistol is even more of an option with the pocket toxin buff

[dull dagger]

How good is hyper critical, I have no idea if I'm getting good mileage out of that.

[supple torrent]

Its fine. IDK if it still messes with sample collector though

IDK how good it is on saw either.

[dull dagger]

Messes with it how?

Well I can tell you in auric I’m not one shotting enemies with saw unless I die that heavy attack that’s like 2 hits in one.

[supple torrent]

Hyper critical is an execute and execute don't proc some on kill effects. IDK if they fixed it with sample collector.

Otherwise its free damage

[dull dagger]

Oh interesting.

Someone’s probably tested that.

[supple torrent]

As in it did not work. And they had to do a round of fixes on hypercritical cus it broke alot of stuff.

[dull dagger]

What’s the problem with bone saw? Just low damage numbers?

[supple torrent]

it feels clunky

weird attack pattern. terrible sound design,

Slow attack speed. I think it has bad cleave

Very strong though

[dull dagger]

Is it? Everyone seems to be saying it’s mid.

[bronze glade]

eh

[dull dagger]

I like using it.

[bronze glade]

horrible moveset mostly

and no cleave

[dull dagger]

I think I can feel the lack of cleave. Weren’t there nodes for that in right side tree?

[supple torrent]

middle

bottom middle

[dull dagger]

Yeah that’s it.

Something about hitting 3 enemies.

[supple torrent]

bonesaw really the only scum weapon I feel I have to take cleave and attack speed to not hate it

[novel oracle]

bonesaw has the means to make up for its slow attack speed and cleave though, but that means its a high investment weapon

[supple torrent]

It means its a doodoo weapon

[dull dagger]

What would you invest into?

[novel oracle]

attack speed and cleave

[dull dagger]

So that bottom middle node.

[novel oracle]

and the stamina attack speed node

and 1 or 2 cleave nodes

[supple torrent]

The node beside hypercrit

[novel oracle]

and cleave blessings

[supple torrent]

you should already have it

[novel oracle]

lots of things to pick up for it

[dull dagger]

I probably do have the latter.

[supple torrent]

I'd rather play coated cbar than bsaw

[dull dagger]

If I’m getting rid of those two left nodes maybe I could grab the cleave one.

[novel oracle]

but the reward is a weapon that rips and tears in single target, that can also cleave tons of things applying a strong dot to all of them each hit

shock and awe is basically mandatory

[dull dagger]

Ironically I might not want the dot to be too strong since I want to apply and then kill via melee to get that CDR.

And that slide melee immunity, it’s not that big of a deal?

[novel oracle]

cdr? you mean toughness?

[dull dagger]

I already have to slide block on other classes so maybe I’m not losing much.

[novel oracle]

i personally dont think that node is worth it

[dull dagger]

The thing where killing poisoned enemies with melee reduces your stim cooldown by 2% per kill.

[novel oracle]

oh toxin kills work on that

unless that changed this patch?

am i stupid

hold on

[dull dagger]

I thought if toxin kills them it doesn’t count.

Maybe I misunderstood.

[novel oracle]

nope it didnt change

any kill gives 1%

[novel oracle]

with any attack

dots are an attack

[supple torrent]

I think it used to not work with toxin for some reason

But they fixed it

[novel oracle]

it always has, it was other things

sample collector hasnt changed

[supple torrent]

I cant keep track of all the weird stuff that happened to this class man

[dull dagger]

So there’s no passive on this class where I need to ensure I kill via melee and not let the toxin be the final hit?

[novel oracle]

arguably itll only get better because youre hitting more enemies with dots and also killing them faster

[novel oracle]

no

[dull dagger]

Okay I can remove that rule of thumb from my brain at least.

[novel oracle]

but like we said that isnt needed for sample collector

[supple torrent]

Hold on. I remember the melee thing.

[mighty belfry]

Alright actually there was a caveat to this . And I don't know if this is still presently like this.

[dull dagger]

One less thing to worry about.

[novel oracle]

oh wait i misread, there is one but its not a very good one anyway

[mighty belfry]

If you inflicted the enemy with toxin but the toxin itself doesn't kill them, it only gives the 1%

[novel oracle]

its the one that also explicitly states it though too

[dull dagger]

So I’ve been making it worse this whole time lol.

[supple torrent]

I mean its not something you're going to control in a fight

[reef spoke]

just kill more people

[mighty belfry]

Tbf I don't think it's supposed to work like that given the wording

[supple torrent]

Like leaving the poxwalker alive from a melee to die to poison isnt a thing

that people do

[dull dagger]

I thought it was like combat knife bleed stacks where you could just flail into a horde and the bleed kills a bunch of them.

The ones not dying from the initial stab to the face that is.

[novel oracle]

btw @dull dagger if you wanna know just how much shock and awe + cleave talents + strength does for bonesaw in terms of cleave overall
i laid it out a while back #hivescum-class message

[dull dagger]

I’ll check it out in a minute once I’m back at my desk. If I can move a point or two to make saw stronger I might, if it’s a big point tax I might just be better off using a better melee for chem build if there is one.

[mighty belfry]

I mean

[novel oracle]

what blessings are you using anyway

[mighty belfry]

Shivs are right there.

[novel oracle]

shivs are boring

[dull dagger]

Shivs have the same problems for me as combat knife did on my vet; I don’t have the (finger) stamina to be spamming left clicks that much into hordes waiting for them to slowly whittle down. Can horde clear but it feels slow to do, maybe I’m using it wrong.

And it’s great for single target but so is my needler.

[mighty belfry]

Spamming le-

What

That doesn't require stamina.

[dull dagger]

IRL stamina to clarify.

[mighty belfry]

Oh.

Fair actually.

[dull dagger]

Like after 2-3 missions it gets tiring.

It’s fun for a run but man.

[novel oracle]

thats what taxe is for

deceptively less spammy than it seems

[austere coyote]

Carpal tunnel comes for us all

[dull dagger]

Same thing with those dual pistols, great fun but after one missions I’m like “shit I’m tired from all that semi auto fire”.

Yeah I’ve been using a lot of taxe on scum, feels very solid. Still a bit spammy but someone told me I should be doing push attack into heavy against hordes so much less spammy now.

[austere coyote]

if you're on PC I think there's an autoclicker mod

[novel oracle]

yup

push heavy on the 2/7 and suddenly youre killing better AND saving your hand at the same time

[dull dagger]

I thought it would feel clunky doing that combo but actually flows really well.

[novel oracle]

ik its dope

[flat mist]

Cole, what builds would you run defense stimm on if any? Sorry if you've already given your thoughts on this

[novel oracle]

it works extremely well on every class on every build

[dull dagger]

I left click spam faces on bigger targets because if I understood correctly the light attack base damage is good and the crit damage is very high so just spam lights to crit fish.

[novel oracle]

good primary weapon for melee and backup weapon for ranged builds

[mighty belfry]

I'm running it on rampage builds tbh

[novel oracle]

ill be honest ive not really played darktide in like a month

let alone the new hotfix

ive been too tubular to play

[dull dagger]

I use taxe on my vet too sometimes since power sword has a bit of a point tax.

[flat mist]

Thats gnarly, brosef.

[novel oracle]

literally though
i got a vp shunt put in 2.5 weeks ago

[flat mist]

Damn, sorry to hear you're going through that. Best wishes for your health.

[novel oracle]

im doing tubular

wheres that one image

hold on

it was peak

[flat mist]

20% attack speed for scrier's pls n thank you

[novel oracle]

taxe and dclaw are my 2 picks for ranged vet depending on the gun

taxe for a gun weak into armor and dclaw for the opposite

though i dont play much of it cuz ranged vet assumes that i can aim and i cant

which is why most of my vet time is shovel double barrel

[dull dagger]

Devil's claw? I thought that thing was pretty bad?

[novel oracle]

its not the best but its not bad when its used right

in this case its a defensive option for a helbore build

its bad into armor but its a helbore build so

[dull dagger]

I was using taxe on my helbore build since at least taxe can kinda deal with armour alongside my kraks.

[novel oracle]

the most youll use it for is hordes and surprise rager jumps which dclaw does both pretty well without needing much investment, and safely too

[dull dagger]

I like devil's claw, good sweeping attacks for hordes but everyone always told me it was meh, plus my psword does that too and I love that.

Yeah surprise rager parry is pretty amazing.

I used to find surprising success with helbore bayonet spam against ragers.

But I think they nerfed that.

I love Helbore, but I also suck with it on tougher content. When it really matters, I just can't get the shot on a priority target with the horde trying to knock my aim off. So much easier to just whip out the plasma gun and shoot through the horde and the wall to kill who needs to die.

Reading this now btw, this is my current saw setup. I was wondering what shock and awe was, figured it was a talent node but seems I have it set up on my saw already.

Decimator was the other recommended one, and it feels like it makes sense.

+50% power when clearing hordes seems really good.

Actually I wonder if I'm getting good use out of that.

Because I dodge, push block, block etc.

Maybe it resets it.

[novel oracle]

its also a slow buildup against bosses
power is multiplicative with damage

[novel oracle]

missing or not landing a hit for 3.5s resets it

blocking and pushing has no bearing

[dull dagger]

3 whole seconds? In that case I'm good.

[novel oracle]

just pay attention to the buff icon of it for a bit in your next game and youll get a good idea of how much value youre getting

[dull dagger]

If I've not hit anyone for 3 seconds it's cause the horde is dead now.

I've been playing this game since release and I don't think I ever look at those tiny little square in the corner of my UI lol.

I don't know what 99% of them even are.

Hard remember which icon is for what.

Kill cleave talent being Battering Momentum?

[novel oracle]

yea

[dull dagger]

So if I grab that for my chem build I already have the blessings you mentioned so now the saw is a solid horde clear melee.

[novel oracle]

yeah

[dull dagger]

Question is which node to remove to get the point for that.

[mighty belfry]

Wouldn't say "solid"

It still has some issues.

[novel oracle]

hitmass, cleave, and strength are all multiplicative for your final cleave

[mighty belfry]

Like the second that flak becomes involved and it starts to fall off unfortunately but, it's not the worst.

[novel oracle]

so having some of all just balloons the number

[dull dagger]

I assume at that point just whip out the bazooka?

[novel oracle]

i remember reg testing scum weapons and saw consistently saw the highest horde cleartimes without stims or abilities

bruisers included

[dull dagger]

I guess I can probably live without slippery customer so I can grab that cleave node.

I'm about to find out how much I crutch on it.

Probably not much though.

[mighty belfry]

huh

[novel oracle]

turns out some decent cleave where every hit applies toxin
kills lots of things fast

[dull dagger]

Oh yeah each additional hit is adding anothe stack so the more hits the bigger the DoT I guess.

[mental trellis]

bonesaw feels better in havoc than auric as well. Since things have more HP

[novel oracle]

which is exactly why the saws innate weakness was cleave

[dull dagger]

Honestly I feel like my saw was "okay" when I'm slashing away at carapace. It's not a power sword, but they die a lot sooner than I expect lol.

[mighty belfry]

well that's because toxin is really strong

[novel oracle]

thats not even just like a "this is what i think"
thats literally how it was made
its the exact reason why wrath on bonesaw is half the strength of literally every other version of wrath

wrath at 200% cleave was just best in slot all of the time

[dull dagger]

Actually instead of slipper customer, I might remove pickpocket and hyper critical, then I can grab the cleave node and practiced deployment because that sounds quite good too.

I don't really spam needler enough to ever trigger pickpocket anyway from what I've noticed.

At least not in auric.

[novel oracle]

as much as i hate advocating for pickpocket because i hate it, the mk2 needler special mode is good enough on a chem build to justify it

[dull dagger]

Oh yeah? I've tried using the alt mode on my mark 2 but it felt very underwhelming.

[novel oracle]

or am i confusing the marks

[dull dagger]

Whenever I use it I feel like "I could have just killed it faster with the regular DoTs".

Mark 2 has the one where they explode.

[novel oracle]

fuck my chungus life im confusing the m1 and m2 again

the mk6(?)

the one with an aoe toxin

where it primes them to spread toxin on death

[dull dagger]

I've only ever used the Mk2.

[mighty belfry]

temu purge staff yeah

[dull dagger]

No matter what I use the alt on it feels very anaemic.

[novel oracle]

mk6 has the same special where its less stacks on hit, but when they die they spread 1 stack of toxin in a small radius

[dull dagger]

Even on like trash horde, it doesn't spread enough to everyone to justify the time wasted.

[novel oracle]

both marks also have a trait most people dont notice

[mighty belfry]

Because that's not the intention of the mk2

[novel oracle]

the special hitting a surface has a tiny aoe that applies 1 toxin

[mighty belfry]

Mk2 special is more meant for creating stagger and crowd control

It just happens to be not good at it.

But you do have a better primary fire.

[novel oracle]

spamming the floor underneath a horde is actually a viable way to kill

[dull dagger]

The video guide I saw was like "make sure you use the alt mode on crusher groups" but the thing is the DoT takes forever to kill a crusher on alt mode due to less stacks I think?

[mighty belfry]

okay

who told you this

[dull dagger]

Was either Mister E or Reginald since those are the two I've been watching.

[mighty belfry]

like what soul led you astray like that

I cannot in good faith believe Reginald would suggest something that insane.

[heady jasper]

what is cartel special?

[mighty belfry]

Stimm

[novel oracle]

yeah it applies less stacks on hit when in the special in exchange for the effect of the chosen mark

[mighty belfry]

wait

hold up

[dull dagger]

Seems the opposite is true.

[mighty belfry]

it's mk2 that's the aoe toxin

[dull dagger]

Main mode does less stacks.

[novel oracle]

I HATE MARK NAMES

[heady jasper]

@novel oracle cole does attack speed reduce heavy charge time

[novel oracle]

FATSHARK WHY MUST YOU INSTILL M1 AND M2 INTO MY SQUEEZED BRAIN

[dull dagger]

Yeah so my one has the good alt mode?

[mighty belfry]

alright it's MK6, that's the bad one

[novel oracle]

yes

[mighty belfry]

Yes

Oh thats

Discord what the hell

Anyway

Yes

mk6 is the good one

[dull dagger]

I must not be using it right but also I don't see how I can use it wrong.

I just flip a switch and shoot mfs.

I'll have to clip it next time, it just feels very underwhelming.

[mighty belfry]

you shoot it in dense hordes

[dull dagger]

Yeah that's what I try to do.

I think it's going to spread and cause booms and create staggers.

In reality it's like I see a guy here and there sneeze while still rushing me.

[mighty belfry]

if not pickpocket, shoot a few, then go into melee to kill what you shot to propagate the DoTs

If pickpocket

just spam

and things die

It's brainless and outright overpowered

[dull dagger]

Yeah maybe that's what I'm missing, I kinda shoot into the crowd and keep kiting, maybe I need to go and melee to properly spread it.

[mighty belfry]

also consider that the actual DoT value of the shot is nerfed

So just shooting one in a crowd usually won't do

[dull dagger]

Maybe the problem is not putting enough needles into a single target on alt mode.

So the dot doesn't kill.

[mighty belfry]

yeah, it requires quite a bit more to finalize the kill

[dull dagger]

I think I try to spread my shots evenly across the horde and that's probably what's not getting things to explode much.

[mighty belfry]

which is why I say it's good to take a shot and then melee it to force the explosion too

[dull dagger]

3 shots in alt to get the same stacks as 1 shot in main mode.

Wait so picking up a stim instantly gives me ult? Stims are all over the place in this event lol.

The description of crate says nothing about making my DoTs do more damage, wonder where I got that from.

[glad latch]

My hivescum must secretly be a Psyker, they're using telekinesis to hold up their backpack.

[dull dagger]

I wonder if the +20% strength from my stimm is what's making the DoTs feel stronger when I put a crate down.

Cause it really feels like shit dies quicker.

[mighty belfry]

yes

Stimm strength is global

Affects all forms of damage you inflict.

Including DoTs

[dull dagger]

Damn so I don't even need crate for that, the stimm's what's really powering me up.

Crate just lets me share the buff with others?

[mighty belfry]

Crate also gives corruption healing and immunity.

And

It also circumvents the stimm effect duration

[dull dagger]

Because if that's the case...fuck the others, I could just switch to Rampage while still keeping my chem focussed build?

Ohh okay that last part does sound good.

[mighty belfry]

Yeah if you don't use crate, you have to let the effect play through for its duration and then the countdown to the next stimm starts

Stimm crate negates the wait time

Which also means with enough kills and sample collector, it can also be overlapped.

[dull dagger]

I'm semi understanding this. So sample collector isn't working until the stimm effect is gone as well?

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

So, to explain.

[dull dagger]

How does crate work around that exactly?

[mighty belfry]

If you inject the stimm, the stimm has an active period of 15s (or 20s with long lasting stimms)

And the countdown to your next stimm doesn't start until that duration has ended.

[dull dagger]

When I pop my stimm the cooldown isn't actually 69 (noice) seconds, it's 69 + however long this stimm lasts which I dunno how long that normally is.

I see.

And then after you inject you immediately drop crate?

And that somehow cancels it out?

[mighty belfry]

If you use a crate while your stimm is available (with fast acting stimms because why the hell wouldn't you take that talent), you get the benefits of that stimm but it doesn't incur that 15s period.

Meaning your stimm will countdown as normal despite you still reaping the benefits.

[heady jasper]

For hive scum is the chem nades better or the stun nades bette

[mighty belfry]

And with sample collector, because the stimm can count down while you're still affected by it, you kill enough and you can actually get your crate back before the effect runs out.

[dull dagger]

So wait quite the opposite; don't pop stim and then crate, by using crate you are getting your stimm affect without the 15s downtime before the cooldown countdown triggers?

[mighty belfry]

You shouldn't really be popping your stimm with crate in general.

This is why you take practiced deployment.

[dull dagger]

That's what I've been doing, people told me you do that to get stacks for uh...chem dependancy?

[mighty belfry]

Yeah, like, for the first stacks.

But it's completely unnecessary when you're at max stacks.

[dull dagger]

My build didn't have practiced deployment but I've grabbed it now alongside the cleave node.

[mighty belfry]

As long as you put a crate down, you are always staying at max stacks.

[dull dagger]

Okay so the real challenge is forcing myself to spam crate.

I hold onto my abilities too long.

Waiting for the "oh fuck" moment.

[mighty belfry]

There's no clear choice because they both serve very different purposes.

Chem nades are extremely good defensive blitzes, blackouts are extremely good offensive blitzes

And rockets are

Rockets.

[heady jasper]

Thr stun nades look cool as hell just for the stagger and with 5

But I read online chem nades can clear hordes. Not sure how much chem does against elites thoigh

[dull dagger]

Rockets are both.

[heady jasper]

What does rhe chem debuff do actually

[mighty belfry]

Chem nades basically make anything that isn't an ogryn explode

[heady jasper]

Orgyn as in unyielding or as in carapace

[mighty belfry]

any

Anything with a high health pool won't really die quickly in the radius

But smaller targets

They don't last long.

[heady jasper]

Ooo

[dull dagger]

The floor is lava grenade.

[mighty belfry]

I personally prefer blackouts

But I play very aggressively so

[heady jasper]

Blackout is stun nade right

Quick question does hivescum have access to knives

[mighty belfry]

You mean combat knives?

[heady jasper]

I think so. The one zealot has

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[heady jasper]

Run faster when you heavy charge

That cool

[dull dagger]

So you kinda need to drop a crate under 180s if you want to maintain stacks, no point holding onto it.

[mighty belfry]

Tbh if you're running chem dependancy with crate

There's legit like

No need to worry

[dull dagger]

I had this problem with my vet too, wasn't until I was doing havoc I realised I could spam shouts very fast, normally I'd just save it for a big situation.

[mighty belfry]

In 99.9999999999999% of situations, you're never gonna run into the issue of not having your crate in time to keep the stacks up

[dull dagger]

Okay good because that was going to weight a lot in the back of my mind during runs.

[mighty belfry]

Unless you choose the node for the fourth stack and then pick a particularly viscous stimm

[dull dagger]

Oh the problem is not not having the crate, the crate CD is faster than the chem dependancy erosion. Problem is just me not dropping crates often enough since "it's not an emergency".

[mighty belfry]

but even then, that's if you don't kill enough for sample collector to get your stimm back quicker.

[dull dagger]

That's what I got set up.

[mighty belfry]

This, is the #1 mistake many DT players have

Don't hold onto your resources

[dull dagger]

Yeah I had this same problem on my vet and I still do it a lot.

[mighty belfry]

If you have em, and it feels like you can benefit from it at all

Use em

[flat mist]

All scum nades are goated

I love blackouts

[heady jasper]

Like newer players?
Iirc old DT was super CDR heavy

[mighty belfry]

Still same concept even with the current state of the game.

[dull dagger]

Even in older DT, I'd hold onto shout for ages, not realise I can get like 2 shouts in the blink of an eye if I want to.

Guys in my H40 run showed me how much I can really spam shout if I wanted to.

I was holding onto that shit like I gotta pay royalties each time I use it.

[mighty belfry]

Waiting for an opportune time to do something is not as beneficial as using it even if the benefit is minor compared to the 'ideal situation' you were waiting for to use it

[dull dagger]

I'm afraid I'll be in a situation where now I need it but it's on CD because I used it earlier.

[mighty belfry]

Like, don't just use it willy nilly obviously.

But for shout

[heady jasper]

Damn what lead you to thinking that way? I remember having venting shriek available as soon as some mid sized horde of elites came nh way

[flat mist]

I pop rampage to clear up that last sniper after an engagement 🧠

[mighty belfry]

If you see that you may be about to get into an encounter, it does not hurt to have that golden toughness in advance to start that encounter.

[dull dagger]

I dunno I think just other games I play these "ultimates" have a long CD and especially with how clutch shout is, I always want it on standby in case I get ambushed by ragers or crushers are about to nuke me and I need an "oh shit" buttons.

[flat mist]

Funny you mention vent because i used to pop it way too quickly

[heady jasper]

Bro we all did. And then we got it back in 5 seconds

Exaggerating ofc

[dull dagger]

Apparently it should be more of a pre-emptive tool yeah.

[crimson loom]

thinking about buying the dlc, is the class in a better spot with the buff now?

[dull dagger]

After all can't give you your health back so best to pop before people start taking hits.

[heady jasper]

I do remember using it to get the DD target and also saving my own ass when I'm holding ground against the 4x crusher and 3x berxerker

[mighty belfry]

the class has been way strong before the buff

If anything they went overboard with Rampage.

[flat mist]

This was playing with DD specifically though so even with old PA it could take awhile to cooldown

[crimson loom]

i heard they have a high skill floor and I have consistently had skill issues lately so I've been holding off buying

[flat mist]

Was when voidstrike was goated

[crimson loom]

but the shivs look so sick

[flat mist]

Shouldve just reduced the impact on stamina regen imo

[mighty belfry]

Skill floor has been taken down quite a notch.

[heady jasper]

I feel so badass doing slide quell even if it was easy to do

Also never popped from what's that thing that reaches 100 and you die

[mighty belfry]

That's what I'm saying.

[dull dagger]

I'm pretty bad at this game but I don't find it harder to play.

[mighty belfry]

They didn't need to do all that. 😭

They gave it the Scrier's Gaze treatment.

[flat mist]

Fatshark allergic to incremental changes

[mighty belfry]

I did not want them to go that far.

[heady jasper]

Fatshark power creeping the game and never really nerfing because they saw what happened to HD2

[crimson loom]

seems like HD2 has made all devs of pve games paranoid

[flat mist]

And also what happened when darktide got review bombed tbh

[heady jasper]

By vets no xD

[flat mist]

Whatever that vet nerf was a couple of years ago

[heady jasper]

Like actual vet mains

[flat mist]

Yeah haha

[mighty belfry]

HD2's success has been catastrophic for the co-op pve scene, straight up.

[heady jasper]

Those same people quote that a game for everyone is a game for no-one, but hd2 now is a game for everyonr

[sturdy linden]

Istg

I wish we could rewind time and delete that game from existence

[crimson loom]

guess I'll go get the dlc now

[sturdy linden]

So the cockroaches that flocked to it and infected the whole genre can return to their corners

[heady jasper]

I wish wr could get the original HD2 design and balance philosophy

[heady jasper]

Not even cockroach bro.
It's like a majority of people.

[mighty belfry]

You mean the one that Arrowhead made by mistake?

[flat mist]

Mr E literally said about rampage buff that its justified because your average player just face tanks enemies 💀

[sturdy linden]

I honestly don't care, the entire enterprise is a spitefest between devs and players

It's literally Reddit: Game Development

[flat mist]

And that his poll showing arbi is twice as popular proves it was justified

[heady jasper]

Although repetitive the original game was pretty good

And yeah I agree your second sentence

[dull dagger]

Just to make sure I got all this. Don't pop stimms on my build, except maybe at the start of mission to get chem dependancy stacks going. Otherwise don't touch stimms, just drop crates so you can minimise stimm/crate downtime via practiced deployment and sample collector, is that right?

[mighty belfry]

Like, I do think an adjustment wouldn't have hurt to have. But there was flavor to Rampage actually having risk to it.

[mighty belfry]

Pretty much.

But uh

[heady jasper]

Who's mr E

[mighty belfry]

There is a particular case, where you may want to inject your stimm...

[flat mist]

Stam to 50% regen would be my ideal change to test the waters

[mighty belfry]

So, traditionally, and I don't know if this has been fixed or not, but there's been no mention of it.

[flat mist]

50% regen***

[mighty belfry]

When you put down your crate when your stimm is not available, you don't get the effect of the stimm.

Just the corruption benefits.

[flat mist]

Unless you leave the buff area and re-enter it hehe

[mighty belfry]

However, if you do that, but get out and then back in the radius of the crate...

Ya.

It gives you the benefit.

So, if you inject your stimm, and then immediately put your crate, move out and back inside, you double up the stimm effect.

[dull dagger]

Oh shit I double it?

[supple torrent]

wait what

[heady jasper]

Pve game is just for fun!!
No nerfs buffs only!
It's fine to nerf but at least give us other OP weapons to use!
Last time I could clear diff 10 (max difficulty btw) with ease but now I'm barely surviving even in a squad!

[sturdy linden]

Yeah that still happens

[dull dagger]

That sounds very important lol.

[sturdy linden]

Gives 2 chem dep stacks

[dull dagger]

Surprised nobody lead with that information.

[sturdy linden]

It's probably unintended

[mighty belfry]

I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you're seriously in need of some crazy damage for a bad situation/

[sturdy linden]

And it encourages selfish play i.e. using the crate without stim

[mighty belfry]

Because remember that injecting the stimm means you're subjected to the wait.

[dull dagger]

Ah right, but at least for that initial stimm at mission start I can still get usage out of my crate

[mighty belfry]

Yeah.

[supple torrent]

wait so if im hearing this right

[dull dagger]

Man screw these randoms, none of them ping grenades for me anyway.

[heady jasper]

Tbf I prefer not playing as a team.

Before havoc people were saying DT is a team based game but everyone just runs on their own in auric.

[supple torrent]

its like double the strength on stimm?

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[flat mist]

Toxin what second blessing do you take on bistol for a rampage/blackout build

[supple torrent]

This cant be true. How have i never heard of this

[dull dagger]

Yeah like havoc sure, team all the way, but auric matchmaking is just every man for himself.

[flat mist]

Its absolutely true

[sturdy linden]

Your chances of winning go up astronomically if you ensure your teammates survive, no matter how lobotomized they may be. Unless you're like thousands of hours into the game and can solo matches in your sleep in which case this whole discussion is moot lul

[mighty belfry]

Puncture. I've tried Executor but you honestly need pickpocket to really get mileage out of it to be honest.

[dull dagger]

Also is this fine for my stimm lab setup?

[mighty belfry]

Is this with bonesaw?

[dull dagger]

Yep.

[heady jasper]

Average day in dt discord.

I used to ask random stuff for fun and learnt really technical and cool shit.
Uou should check my message count

[mighty belfry]

1. There's legit no need for those nodes on the bottom right. That just isn't enough investment in that branch to mean anything and with practiced deployment, you will never see any benefit from it yourself.

2. I think crit chance is better on saw.

[dull dagger]

I got this build from either MisterE or Reginald's chem build, I dunno how bad it's setup though.

[heady jasper]

I can't legitimately solo because that requires a little different skillset ( kiting with map knowledge, doing loops)
But I could just handle my own. And people in auric could.

Going off alone means more plasteel.

Besides I can't imagine the voidstrike osyker wants to be rigjg beside the knife zealot chasing the ranged elite

All the other way around where the knife zealot hangs back

[dull dagger]

Yeah bottom right did feel kinda eh to me but I don't know enough to question it.

Okay with those removed now my CD is 57s.

[flat mist]

Its ok damage with 2 hits i suppose, about 600 into flak without any ranged talents in my build

[heady jasper]

Like I don't think aura benefits are worth giving up positioning lmao

[mighty belfry]

Rather just have more consistent one taps on specialists.

[low harbor]

it kinda doesn't matter that much

[flat mist]

Reginald loves this stimm for whatever reason

[dull dagger]

I stick with team so someone can save me when I get disabled.

[flat mist]

Ive seen him mention it in like 5 videos

[mighty belfry]

But as Path said, it really doesn't matter all that much.

[low harbor]

because u need both sweet spot and in your face to get boltpistol 1 tap breakpoints

[heady jasper]

I mean you can just run back to team when you sense you are getting fucked

[low harbor]

and most melee builds don't take IYF

[dull dagger]

Yeah he loves saw as well IIRC.

[low harbor]

so no 1 tap flamer/gunner

[mighty belfry]

As long as you have Lethal Prox, you're golden.

[flat mist]

Yeah that was kinda my conclusion

[heady jasper]

Is the guide wip path?

[low harbor]

I use run&gun on mine

[flat mist]

Its mainly my stagger stick and special sniper anyway

[heady jasper]

What's path handle now

[flat mist]

But one hit does soooo little bleed damage

[low harbor]

take a guess

[mighty belfry]

It helps on the squishier specialists

[dull dagger]

This thing?

[mighty belfry]

Like trappers and bombers.

[mighty belfry]

Yeah

Since you get more DoT stacks on crit.

[dull dagger]

Oh yeah.

[heady jasper]

Ooo I didn't know you are chinese
What's hammer of the emperor?

[mighty belfry]

And rending doesn't do anything for toxin DoTs

[low harbor]

rending stim only matters for gun and sword rampage tbh

[low harbor]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3367063781

[dull dagger]

So now my saw has better cleave and better dots, I should probably double check, what's my combo for horde clear and single targets?

Cause I've been spamming lights into heads basically.

[mighty belfry]

Light spam

It's a DoT weapon

[dull dagger]

Okay so accidentally optimal.

[heady jasper]

Aa in I haven't played DT in a long time. Can you briefly explain what is it about

[mighty belfry]

The more you swing, the more DoTs you inflict.

That is kinda how the cookie crumbles.

[dull dagger]

Makes sense.

[low harbor]

basic guide

[sturdy linden]

You open with either heavy attack or push attack to reliably kill some trash mob and proc S&A and then go into light spam

[heady jasper]

Oh for the game in general?

[dull dagger]

I thought with more cleave I might need to do heavy swings.

[low harbor]

ya

it only has vet & zealot in it rn

but I will add more over time

working on melee weapons' section overhaul atm

[mighty belfry]

And here, is where one of the most fundamental issues with the Bonesaw rears its ugly face.

[sturdy linden]

The h1 is very very useful as either a combat opener or guaranteed deleting some elite or special

[mighty belfry]

The moveset kinda sucks.

[low harbor]

bonesaw's heavy sweep is ok

but heavy overhead is ass

[dull dagger]

I do like using that, quite satisfying, but I heard these kinda moves that are slow to play out are not good at high diffs where mobility is king.

[sturdy linden]

Ya

[mighty belfry]

Overhead is a latch attack, that also isn't great at what it's supposed to do.

[sturdy linden]

It's just for the first S&A proc

That's kinda it for the most part

Or deleting a mutie you just dodged

[mighty belfry]

The sweep is nice but because it's so slow, you don't really wanna lean into doing it too much.

[low harbor]

if shock&awe could activate from all kills while melee weapon in hand it'd be nice

[mighty belfry]

As it just ends up being a loss in DPS.

[sturdy linden]

Personally I start wide front hordes with PA into heavy followed by light spam, or h1 into light spam for small groups

[dull dagger]

I think these chem builds are my favourite, really makes the class feel like its own thing a lot.

[sturdy linden]

Same

[supple torrent]

Im melee scum. It really makes you feel like a crackhead

[sturdy linden]

Boxcutter toxin build and Saw toxin are tied as my favorite scum builds

[supple torrent]

Pretty sure it hits fastest attack speed

[dull dagger]

Melee scum and hell even ranged scrum feel like "I'm this thing now, but on crack".

But that doesn't feel as unique.

[upbeat gyro]

If only Booby Trap talent was good, then id like stimm kit deployment builds more

[dull dagger]

Booby trap is bad?

[sturdy linden]

It is good? It's just kinda unnecessary IMO

[low harbor]

i think it is gud

[dull dagger]

I've got a point in it.

[supple torrent]

Team watching me load up on drugs before face tanking 3 crushers

[upbeat gyro]

Its bad, i wish it was good

I mean, blitzes just got really good amount of chem toxin stacks

Meanwhile the booby trap barely does anything

[dull dagger]

7 stacks of toxin from booby.

I got RPG blitz so no amount of chem from that is going to do much.

[supple torrent]

you cant just call it booby'

[sturdy linden]

7 stacks will guaranteed kill anything not a monstrosity and not affected by special modifiers, iirc

[upbeat gyro]

Yes but its 3m and delayed so its really awkward to get it aimed at right spot

[supple torrent]

I like booby trap if im going max cdr and not thinking about timing my stimms

[low harbor]

it kills every enemy besides ogryn and boss

[supple torrent]

tbf in high density combat you dont need to time it

Something is going to get hit

[low harbor]

and it backfeeds into sample collector a lot

[dull dagger]

It's like a free mini chem grenade whenever you drop crate.

[supple torrent]

You can also just fight around your stimm

[mighty belfry]

hmm

lethal prox booby trap

[austere coyote]

yeah but you're reliant on the enemy being at your box when it pops

[supple torrent]

you should change your name to lethal prox

[austere coyote]

Not racist, just don't like it

[low harbor]

yea in high density that tends to happen fairly often

[dull dagger]

I guess the idea is, drop box and kite around it for 5s.

[heady jasper]

If I play this with c knife and say reload by shell weapons like certain shotguns,
Can someone tell me why this is a bad build

[low harbor]

not neccesarily

[upbeat gyro]

5s and only 3m range just make it too awkward

[dull dagger]

Which is a little counterinitiative to what you're taking fast acting stimms for, so that you're mobile.

[austere coyote]

no pickpocket

[mighty belfry]

i'm sorry, what?

[heady jasper]

Could you circle in red which one is pickpocket

[supple torrent]

dear god its assimilated them

[heady jasper]

I just want to read what it does

[dull dagger]

Bottom left, top left of the purple node there.

[upbeat gyro]

It takes unnecessary talents while skips some really good ones

[low harbor]

not necessarily, u can get value out of it if u hold enemy around it or slow backtrack

[heady jasper]

Nah that is for vet mains who can't handle their ammo economy ( joking)

[mighty belfry]

so, this is all just opinions, and anyone can feel free to disagree with me on some of them, first off, what are the weapons

[heady jasper]

I typed it above the picture

Cknife and single reload guns

Say the shotgun

[upbeat gyro]

Sure can get, value out of it, but using it efficiently and precisely is very awkard due small range and 5s delay

[mighty belfry]

Yeah cuz all of em are different

[heady jasper]

What are the uncessaey talents and what are the good ones

[mighty belfry]

And one is objectively, not the greatest

[supple torrent]

Is it worth greeding for sample collector on an andrenaline build?

[heady jasper]

The flame shotgun

[mighty belfry]

oh no

[heady jasper]

It got nerfed?

:(

[supple torrent]

With no tox

[mighty belfry]

It didn't get nerfed.

It's just.

Not great on this class.

[dull dagger]

I have it on my build since I took this from some YouTube video, in practice I've not really felt like it's been doing a lot so far, but it's also not doing nothing. Thing is if I removed this node I wouldn't even know what I'd want to grab with that spare skill point that's going to give as much or more mileage.

[heady jasper]

Ok let's say most powerful individually reload weapon / meta gun on this class

[mighty belfry]

Unless you're abusing the fuck out of pickpocket.

[heady jasper]

I assume you want single reload to proc the reload node

Or it doesn't matter

[upbeat gyro]

I am poopint, someone else can answer

[mighty belfry]

Admittedly if you're running rampage, you want a ranged weapon that's low investment

[dull dagger]

Swift Endurance is probably a good one to get.

[mighty belfry]

That's why needle pistol is such a popular option (even if I do think it's a little overrated)

[dull dagger]

I see like every build grabs it.

[upbeat gyro]

Depends how much you like your stimms, i dropped minä because i forget to use em anyway

[low harbor]

it's one of the worse weapons tbh

def worst combat shotgun

maybe top5 worst guns overall?

[supple torrent]

I spam stimms but im short of points now with the new changes

[heady jasper]

What's low investment in this context

[flat mist]

Yes but also triple dot memes

[dull dagger]

Is Needler low investment?

[mighty belfry]

Extremely.

[heady jasper]

Goddam did it get out power crept

Also do you not want singular reloads to proc thr 25% DR node?

[supple torrent]

I feel like I 2 shot enemies anyways. Probably dont need cheapshots on cbar

[low harbor]

no it just isn't very good after they fixed the inf cleave for its special shot

[upbeat gyro]

Needs only pickpocket, 10% tox is nice but not necessary

[mighty belfry]

You literally need no investment with needle pistol for it to be very good.

[dull dagger]

Might not even need pickpocket.

[heady jasper]

Ah yeah I just use it to 2 shot squisher elites

[supple torrent]

On aurics you dont even need pickpocket

[flat mist]

Dont worry about proccing it just run it if you're doing ranged heavy and dont if youre not

[heady jasper]

Investment as in plasteel?

[low harbor]

yea dats the problem

it takes 2 or more

[mighty belfry]

As in you need absolutely no ranged talents to make it work.

[heady jasper]

At mid range its pretty good no

At close range it can tap headshot

[low harbor]

no

[mighty belfry]

It can

It doesn't mean it's very good at it.

[supple torrent]

Ok ok. Whats the current consensus on hypercrit + hyper violence?

[dull dagger]

Revolver can tap headshot at any range.

[low harbor]

take both if u can, for melee build

[heady jasper]

Wait so which nodes are uncessary and which ones are important. I assume like irosk said since I'm doing melee I shouldn't take the ranged reload dr

[heady jasper]

Ye but iirc it has less in the mag and can't deal with shield ogryn

[mighty belfry]

Honestly don't want the ranged damage node. Hell I even think Quick and Deadly next to it's kinda overrated.

[heady jasper]

Give me the whole list of good and bad pls

[mighty belfry]

lemme see if i could actually depict it somehow

[heady jasper]

Green circle for must take
Red Cross for never take
Pink circle for build dependent
Yellow circle for controversial, only take when you know what you are doing

[dull dagger]

Maybe it's different on scum since I use revolver on my vet, but it's like 7 shots, can one-tap crushers in the head, can't go through bulwark shield sure, but I wasn't aware the shotgun could.

[heady jasper]

Wait volvo can one tap crushers in the head now?

Tf

[dull dagger]

Yeah but might just be a vet talent thing.

With weapon specialist.

[heady jasper]

Oh you are doing turtle vet?

Wait not even turtle vet

Wep spec is the switching one no

Tf

[dull dagger]

Knife / revolver weapon specialist vet.

Yeah.

Very fun.

You stab stuff, and if there's a problem, you flick their head with revolver and go back to stabbing. Best part? Stabbing reloads your revolver for you, no need to waste time reloading.

[heady jasper]

Hatred for vet very justified. But maybe it's just due to all the buffs

[dull dagger]

Been using a similar variant from Path's guide with the combat shotgun since I never really got into that gun much.

[heady jasper]

Didn't old darktide require turtle vet for volvo one shot on crusher
I'm pretty sure it did ngl

[dull dagger]

Same thing basically, but better for mixed horde nuking.

Not sure what qualifies as a turtle vet.

[heady jasper]

Thr purple node that slows you down to a crawl but increased your range damage

[low harbor]

revolver can't 1 tap crusher without super significant investment

and not worth building for anyway

[dull dagger]

That sounds like the left side arby ability lol.

[heady jasper]

I see

[dull dagger]

Yeah just a fun build I play sometimes in auric.

It's my only "stealth" build too.

[heady jasper]

You type first nemph

[dull dagger]

Back when I only played vet, was nice having builds like that to keep things fresh. Now I have more classes built, I kinda just jump from class to class and stick to the same 1-3 builds.

[heady jasper]

I quit psyker after they nerfed voidstrike apparently because people were abusing the lmb

[dull dagger]

AFAIK psyker is like the strongest class at the moment lol.

[heady jasper]

And also removed quell slide

Psyker felt fun because it was slightly more mechanical than the rest

[low harbor]

I’d put it at like
T0: psyker and ranged hvs
T1: vet, melee hvs, chemist hvs, ranged rumbler og
T1.5: arb, melee og, zealot
T2: ranged non-rumbler og

[heady jasper]

What is arbi playstylr like?

What is hvs

[flat mist]

Lmb on EK wrecks atm

[flat mist]

Hive scum

[dull dagger]

Does ranged scum need reload speed blessing to work, because the constant reloading downtime feels gross.

[heady jasper]

Can someone do this for the hivescum tree. Or mr lethal doing it now

Thank a lot

[zenith fern]

Frontline

[heady jasper]

What's ek boss

[flat mist]

Electrokinetic staff, new name for surge staff

Trauma is now called voidblast

Purgatus is now called inferno

[heady jasper]

I think EK better name. Trauma better name. Purgatus vs inferno is more of cool vs intuitive

[dull dagger]

You got a link to a build for a cracked ranged hvs?

[flat mist]

They changed the names of tons of guns too when they did the weapon system update

[heady jasper]

Melee or ranged?
How does it differ from zealot

[low harbor]

no, I don't enjoy playing cringe classes

[dull dagger]

I have one from the pins I dunno if it's particularly great.

It doesn't feel strong to me the way my Vet does with plasma.

Must be using it wrong.

[zenith fern]

More melee like ogryn

[heady jasper]

Don't copy builds
Just make your own and ask for advice.

Because sometimes people ( and even thr class channels) have very set biases.

For example zealot chat used to swear by 2nd life even if you have to pipe from the other end of the tree

[zenith fern]

Arbites be mini tank and unkillable

Because plate face gets the biggest toughness replenishment

[heady jasper]

So irs human sized oggie?
What are the core differences then

[zenith fern]

Dog companion

[heady jasper]

Oh yeah you do have the dog. I saw it in the gameplay

[zenith fern]

That's the only difference

[heady jasper]

Sorry about that

I forgot

[zenith fern]

Arbites just plays like ogryn for crowd control

[dull dagger]

If I make my own build by the time I get advice on it, it would end up looking like the build I was going to copy anyway. I'm not really into build crafting, so it saves me a lot of time if I just say what my goal for a build is and people give me a generally agreed upon build for that. Sure, a node here or there may be debatable as you say, but in those cases it's rare that it's the cause for why I'm failing missions.

[zenith fern]

But easier

And boring

[heady jasper]

Someone pls pls for hivescum tree

[heady jasper]

I suggestted doing that more for your own enjoyment rather than whats the best, despite the time sink.

And even a node different, can feel different in mg experience

[low harbor]

just read their talents and do it urself

it's not hard

[dull dagger]

I wouldn't know a strong talent from a shit one tbh.

[heady jasper]

My build crafting gone to shit because I haven't played in so long.
That picture I sent was mu best attempt

[dull dagger]

I thought longshot must be good on vet back in the day but everyone told me that shit was a trap.

[heady jasper]

All my knowledge is outdated

I'm waiting for the handsome, intelligent and outright beautiful charming path to feed me how to build hivescum

[low harbor]

no

modify according to ur needs

[heady jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-tearing-up-monkey-crying-sad-monkey-monkey-looking-up-its-over-gif-16027759611976358049

[dull dagger]

What's the consensus on hvs keystones? I saw people saying only chem dependancy is good, but then I see people using adrenaline for melee builds, vulture's mark for ranged hvs, so I get the impression they're all solid for their respective roles?

[heady jasper]

I miss the days when path would feed me god tier build knowledge

[low harbor]

if ranged, take vulture
if melee & using finesse weapon, take dependency
if melee & not using finesse weapon, take adrenaline
if chemist, take dependency

[heady jasper]

Why dependency for finese wep

[low harbor]

15% crit chance

[heady jasper]

Ohhh

[low harbor]

read the talents lol

[heady jasper]

Wait does dependency hvs give higher crit rates than crit spam zealot

[dull dagger]

Chem fortified sounds underwhelming, like not a "must have" but "nice to have" if you got a skill point you don't need.

[pallid quail]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nooo-noooo-omg-omg-no-gif-16386157090663318094

[heady jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/fat-fat-monkey-fat-monkey-smile-fat-monkey-smiling-monkey-gif-1768197236560593059

[dull dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/read-gif-25879491

[low harbor]

u can find out by reading

[heady jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-monkey-crying-monkey-stucksixteen-gif-26340862

[dull dagger]

Wtf is that on her mouth.

[heady jasper]

Microphpne

[dull dagger]

No the plastic cover.

[heady jasper]

Mask

[dull dagger]

Never seen a mask like that.

[heady jasper]

So that it's a mask but can still hear clearly

[dull dagger]

Can't you just infect mfs from that open top part?

I think that's why the monkey's covering its eye, she's getting spit in its face.

[heady jasper]

You prob could but reduced chance I guess

[dull dagger]

Looks like a friggin baseball cap for her chin.

[mighty belfry]

honestly yeah this is a good template for this

honestly as I'm going through this

Literally just, don't use ranged based talents.

That's basically Rampage in a nutshell.

[dull dagger]

Just bring needler for ranged.

[mighty belfry]

nah needler ain't the only option

It is the most consistent though.

[heady jasper]

Hmm hmm but man want know which skill universal good which skill universal bad
Man no play long time, become dumb

[dull dagger]

What else?

[mighty belfry]

Bolt pistol.

That's one at least.

[heady jasper]

That weapon feel so bad to use

I try it when it came out iirc

[mighty belfry]

It's a blessing stick.

[dull dagger]

Tried bolt pistol first time recently on vet grenadier build, was surprised how it staggers but doesn't kill.

[heady jasper]

What's blessing again

[dull dagger]

Was basically just using it for that one blessing though.

[mighty belfry]

The actual weapon itself isn't great.

[dull dagger]

For the explosion buff.

[heady jasper]

Is it the

Perk thing

[mighty belfry]

Lethal prox

[heady jasper]

On the weapon

[dull dagger]

Yeah that one.

[heady jasper]

Oh yeah it is

[mighty belfry]

But I use explodey bolt pistol as a blessing/stagger stick.

[dull dagger]

Boltgun slaps so wasn't expecting the pistol version to not one-shot gunners lol.

[mighty belfry]

and it's actually effective at doing that.

Basically temu blackouts.

[heady jasper]

Interesting

[dull dagger]

I wasn't aiming at heads tbf.

Since I'm used to bolter just exploding them centre mass.

[heady jasper]

The big volt gun don't you have to aim head

I remember on zealot full clip to kill 1 crusher

Or almost full clip

[dull dagger]

On a crusher sure it helps.

On most targets honestly body shot still one-shots so why bother.

[heady jasper]

Ah I think cause if I ran bolt gun on zealot I'll just run t knives

[dull dagger]

I was running it with exec order so that also helps.

[heady jasper]

Didn't know it one shots body tho

[dull dagger]

Pretty sure it gives me range damage bonus.

When people kill the target I needled.

Now I know how my friend feels when he's trying to blow someones head up with psyker and I go and shoot them dead.

And he's like "you don't need to shoot those guys I'm exploding their heads."
Yeah I know, I do it for the love of the game, not cause I need to.

[slim mesa]

Anyone able to tell me differences between MK II and MK VI Needle Pistol? Played both and can't find a damn thing that differs

[manic wolf]

They apply different numbers of stacks, and the alt-fire modes function differently. One of them causes enemies to explode for minor stagger, the other makes them spread toxin DoTs after death

[slim mesa]

So MK II is for stagger

[manic wolf]

Icr which one is which, I don't play it

Test them in the Psyk

[slim mesa]

Good call

I forget such a thing exists man

[manic wolf]

The one that spreads DoT is generally considered the better one

[slim mesa]

Okay, Mk II is the AoE DoT one

I hate that I can't mod the game

[dire badge]

It's way better, the other one only has like one or two more stacks on single target. Compared to the other one that's already good single target and the aoe actually does something, it's shit

[ancient basin]

the stagger is not strong or wide spread enough to even consider it over the dot spread one

if it built up strong stagger for a long time maybe

[manic wolf]

As I understand it about the only way the stagger one could be good if it if did damage comparable to the total health of the enemy that just exploded

And even then, it would probably still be worse than the DoT spread version

[slim mesa]

If the explosion damage matched the pool of the enemuy exploded... imagine detonating a carapace ogryn in the middle of a horde

[manic wolf]

Yes. It would have some reason to exist

[glad latch]

Would be like a nuke grenade going off