hivescum-class

[woeful trellis]

but in reality it usually just means backing up where you can't get shot, killing the melee stuff as it follows you, then go back out and kill the shooters

[dull dagger]

I play TacAxe but I'm really not a fan of it.

[woeful trellis]

twins is sort of a microcosm of that, whenever they spawn in havoc

[dull dagger]

Just left click all day.

[manic wolf]

I found one guys, I found a Nurgle worshipper

[woeful trellis]

you back up and rinda will zoom towards you, leaving rodin far behind

[woeful trellis]

then you kite her around a corner and beat her ass before he catches up

[dull dagger]

I throw TacAxe on when I can't spare points for melee nodes on my vet, but it's more as a last resort rather than a preference.

[mighty belfry]

Wot

Okay wait.

What's your tac axe build?

[manic wolf]

Uhh thats all melee weapons... If anything TacAxe is one of the more competant weapons when it comes to leveraging its combo potential

[dull dagger]

I don't think we have tac axe builds on Vet, we just throw it on our build. If you have the melee attack speed node, you can run psword, if you don't, then you gotta run stuff like tac axe or combat knife.

[mighty belfry]

Straight up. Might even be stronger overall than Scum's best exclusive melee weapon

Tac axe is stupidly powerful.

[dull dagger]

Oh I'm sure it's a very strong melee weapon.

[mighty belfry]

And fun.

[dull dagger]

It's just one of the least engaging ones I've ever used in the game.

I've been using tac axe to level up my scum faster since it's already mastery 20.

[river burrow]

Taxe is good times. I’ve run it on zealot a lot. If you want to see how stupid it can get, run it on IJ or martyrdom with punish impiety talent (push attack increases attack speed by 10%).

[dull dagger]

I play vet 90% of the time so the beauty of the weapon from vet's perspective feels like it's a very good weapon without having to build around it. Good all rounder, solid mobility, easy to use.

But man my finger gets tired spamming left clicks on that thing run after run.

[tropic crag]

taxe is kind of one of the "its just good" options yeah

[spark gyro]

PC gigaturbochads can use the Keep Swinging mod to spam lights

If you're doing heavy + light combos tho, that won't help

[dull dagger]

I'm on PC but don't use any mods. I'm constantly contemplating one that might let me detect bursters/trappers/dogs more consistently.

[mental trellis]

the burster and barrels one is great.

[sturdy linden]

danger zone

quite, quite good

helps prevent those "what the fuck I dodged that shit" moments somewhat

[mental trellis]

imagine if they gave vet arbites shotgun. would be so funnn

[upbeat gyro]

Does this mean everything your crosshairs goes to, gets pinged, or it actually pings stuff you dont even have in center of your screen?

[mental trellis]

crosshair

[upbeat gyro]

Okay, well, handy still, DLing

[sacred pilot]

I put tag on my Shift key

been moving it around to see what the least offensive place is lol

[bronze glade]

i have mine on rmb

[lavish bronze]

Mmb where it was

[zenith fern]

Me on Control key

[tropic crag]

my tag is on mouse scroll up, so if i'm not sure where the sniper or gunner actually is i can just sweep and scroll for like a half second

[woeful hill]

my tag is ALT + F4

if I see something scary, I'm out of there

my horde fantasy can not be stopped by some elite

[tardy cedar]

Do you have a mouse with side buttons?

I use the side button on front left of mouse for tagging

really convenient because thumb on mouse hand does very little

I really wish there was a better keyboard placement for dodge/jump

[zenith fern]

Also good for nade throws

[tardy cedar]

but left ALT doesn't work for me

[zenith fern]

I like using upper side button for grenade

Learning that using G key is such a stretch for your hand to reach when you on combat

[dull dagger]

Dodge on space, alt for jump, mouse thumb for grenade for me.

[sacred pilot]

I used to. It felt weird to be often engaging left click right click and thumb at the same time. Not impossible, but it was clunky work for my thumb.

I might try out again now that I set it to only take one click

Thumb buttons are for large item, small item, special attack, and the front ones I forget what I had them doing... they're too far forward to be as comfortable to press often with how I hold the mouse.

[mighty belfry]

excise vault is always a wonderful time for havoc

[dull dagger]

Does scum have a "best" melee?

[mighty belfry]

technically

it's rashad

but rashad is boring

[dull dagger]

The combat axe?

[manic wolf]

TacAxe or Shiv imo

[dull dagger]

I thought combat axe was just generally a piece of shit?

[manic wolf]

Rashad is statistically the best, but yeah, as Goblin says, fucking snoozefest

[mighty belfry]

Yeah

[tropic crag]

the best melee weapon is the stims we mainlined along the way

[mighty belfry]

There is no denying how insanely strong that thing is with the right setup.

But it truly is the most unengaging melee imho

also

[dull dagger]

I'm assuming it's just tap heads with strikedown heavies non stop?

[mighty belfry]

fix poxbursters

[manic wolf]

I will also give honourable mention to Chainsword actually on Scum, but it does depend a bit on player ability

[manic wolf]

We've been begging for this for years at this point

[dull dagger]

What's broken about them?

[manic wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-war-everything-avengers-gif-14066494

[mighty belfry]

made this run a fucking pain but this may be my new personal best lmao

this class is something else.

[manic wolf]

Niice

Class is funny, it's much more dependent on player than the others tend to be

[dull dagger]

Mine I love it when your post-mission weapon reward ends up having the dump stat you needed so you just saved yourself a trip to the shop.

Got my mobility dump shivs without spamming shop.

[manic wolf]

'Grats, now watch it never happen again

[dull dagger]

Has happened to me a bunch.

Not often, but nice little bonus when it does.

[manic wolf]

Emprah has gifted me exactly one perfect statted weapon since beta

[dull dagger]

Oof.

[flat mist]

only on bosses and carapace, you lmb the rest

[dull dagger]

How is this more boring that taxe lol.

[manic wolf]

Also why the fuck don't we get goofy beta helmet for new classes

[dull dagger]

I'd use that helmet if it didn't have that corny B on it.

[manic wolf]

The best part is that its literally got the "beta" greek symbol on it

[dull dagger]

Yeah.

[manic wolf]

And I want it for my piggy, because piggy

[flat mist]

because its slow and clunky and has a much simpler moveset than taxe

[tropic crag]

i find them both boring tbh

or rather the same type of boring

[mighty belfry]

I hope this convinces people of the true power

Of finesse maxxing.

[dull dagger]

What perks for shiv btw

[flat mist]

if @mighty belfry isnt running weakspot and crit damage are they really finesse maxxing?!

[zenith fern]

Flak, unyielding
Cara, unyielding

Depending what you going for

Me like rending rampage shivs

[dull dagger]

Going for a melee rampage build.

[zenith fern]

Uncanny strike and precognition is too funny for shivs

Mk3 light spam

[flat mist]

I really dont understand how precog is ever better than riposte on shivs

Im open to arguments but it just seems worse before we even consider the uptime

[manic wolf]

Dunno about better, but of the same ilk imo

I wouldnt take Precog over Riposte unless I was already juiced up to the eyeballs on crit chance tho

Unless they let TacAxe have it, then I would

[flat mist]

I don't think riposte is worth dropping even with chem dep and butterfly

[zenith fern]

Precog is better to take on melees with high finesse stats

Like knife

[flat mist]

Its not though, is my contention

Im asking why you think that

[manic wolf]

If you're already getting super high crit chance, you're better off taking the damage boost that effects two things; weakspot and crit damage, than that last bit of crit chance to take you to 100% crit

[zenith fern]

True

[manic wolf]

They aren't huge bonus', even at 60%, sure, but its both at once as opposed to overbuffing the thing you're already doing

Its pretty niche tho

Like I said, I wouldn't take it over Riposte most of the time, but there are exceptions

[zenith fern]

You can do nasty damage with precog, just dropping a crusher with few hits from finesse boosts

[flat mist]

Even with a 52.5% base crit chance minimum with chem dep, i never surpass an 80% actual crit rate in games, ie, the cumulative bonus from butterfly and riposte is ~25%. At least 60% of that is riposte. My point being is that you're not taking your effective crit rate from 80>100 with it, you're taking it from somewhere south of 60% to ~15% higher.

I'm only hitting about 50% weakspot hits on average (maybe a skill issue) but id rather boost my crit rate to more consistently get that insane bonus than to make an insane bonus insaner a smaller percentage of the time with precog.

But its all a completely moot point because riposte is like 50-60% uptime in combat and precog barely scratches 20%

Unless you're building for clutches precogs uptime makes it always the worse choice

[mighty belfry]

me take both riposte and precog

uncanny overrated

[mighty belfry]

i am tho

wait you mean perks

[delicate estuary]

I think I’m running riposte and flesh tearer rn but I should prob change flesh tearer

[mighty belfry]

flesh tearer is

eh

it's just better on knife

way better

[delicate estuary]

Agree

I just haven’t rlly bothered to change it for some reason

[mental trellis]

what d.claw blessings are good ?

[mental trellis]

well the combat blades do get 100% rending unlike the shivs nerfed uncanny lol

[delicate estuary]

Rampage prob

I dunno what the other one should be but rampage def

Could be entirely wrong tho I haven’t been playing for too long

[mental trellis]

ill try it with shred mayb. scum has a lot of crit already though

[flat mist]

yiis

[delicate estuary]

Yeah scum crit is crazy

[mighty belfry]

but that 20% isn't actually as bad as you think it is, particularly for this class

thing about hive scum is, hyperviolence is a very funny talent

precog crits basically make your damage explode, and will very often result in tons of overkill which gets transferred and ramped up over time through enemies

[upbeat gyro]

Boosting max crit range for this can also make you hit some nice breakpoints id guess

[mighty belfry]

tis why i run both

with riposte and precog

[delicate estuary]

I’ll try it out tmrw

[manic wolf]

I still intensely dislike that talent lul

Do wanna test how Slaughter Spree interacts with HV though

[delicate estuary]

What’s hv again

[manic wolf]

Hyperviolence

[dull dagger]

Was doing duos with my friend and we got even worse players than usual with randoms. We kept getting people that would just go down like 6-8 times during a run. We saw a Arby LV30 on damnation and thought "Okay nice, this guy can tank for us", he would not stop going down.

[mighty belfry]

You're playing damnation.

[delicate estuary]

Oh I bet you it doesn’t interact at all

[manic wolf]

I bet it does kek

[delicate estuary]

True

[manic wolf]

100% crit chance on enemy oneshot

[mighty belfry]

Teammates there just tend to be worse

[manic wolf]

Should be pretty easy to stack it up to the point its one shotting everything

[dull dagger]

Can you skip the whole mechanic where you gotta play damnation to unlock auric etc.

[delicate estuary]

Hypercritical + hyperviolence already mostly does that mostly tho

[manic wolf]

Take the cleave on kill talent, ditch Brutal Momentum and take SlaughterSpree + Decimator

[mighty belfry]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a105cccf-523f-4479-b256-78316b7ff8cd/hyperfinesse-hive-terror

there you go, if you wanna try that

[delicate estuary]

Remind me to send my build tmrw it’s decently fun I’d say

Not meta but

[manic wolf]

No, Hypercritical eats your Hyperviolence proc

[delicate estuary]

Brain off

[delicate estuary]

Blegh

[mighty belfry]

It doesn't.

That got debunked a good while back.

[manic wolf]

Ok, eats it is a bit of a misnomer, but you effectively get nothing added onto the proc from it

[delicate estuary]

Had a vet with shout that ate like 4 poxbursters one mission

It was sad

[dull dagger]

My vet shout was carrying so many missions with randoms.

[manic wolf]

Gold Toughness being a problem, yet again lul

[mighty belfry]

Which is honestly, fine in most cases because the times it would proc are usually either times where you're not doing enough damage to effectively use hyperviolence or it's basically using your overkill to reach a breakpoint to proc hypercritical in a cleave, which doesn't cancel out the overkill.

[manic wolf]

Ehhh, it's fine with Shivs or maybe Tax Axe if you build it for crits, but detrimental with weapons that don't hit multiple times a second

[mighty belfry]

Well ya. It's good with stuff that'll crit a lot.

[manic wolf]

HV only has a 1s duration, if you have a 0.7 gap between swings, that HC proc does actually kill HV

Kill enemy > get overkill > HC procs on next hit > 0 overkill return > duration ends > next swing hits enemy for zero profit, roughly

[mighty belfry]

But it doesn't. The HC proc does not cancel out HV's benefits at all. If you proc HC, it essentially just keeps that overkill that got you to proccing HC until you hit something else. In practice, it really does nothing to actually cancel out the benefit.

HC doesn't override, since it's not considered actual damage at all.

[manic wolf]

It has a one second duration, if the overkill return is 0, IE; its not added to, it drops afaik

[mighty belfry]

The chances of that actually happening when you're doing enough damage to be consistently proccing hyperviolence with a decently fast attack speed are virtually zero.

That's why it's not as antisynergetic as people first believed.

[manic wolf]

*That is to say it drops if your weapon doesnt have less than 0.5s duration between swings

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

That's why it's good with some weapons.

[manic wolf]

I didn't say it wasn't... I said I don't like it

[mighty belfry]

I know. My thing is though, it's not as antisynergetic as it sounds.

It's "antisynergetic" in the sense of it just, kind of being a nothingburger.

It don't do anything.

[manic wolf]

I mean, thats kinda why I don't like it, I find that most of the time, once HV is rolling, about the only thing HC ever procs on is Maulers, so for most of the game, it ends up as a nothingburger

My opinion is probably skewed due to not playing Shiv or Knife tho

[mighty belfry]

Probably, since those two are the best fits for that sorta setup

That and tac axe.

[manic wolf]

HV on TacAxe is absurd, I main TacAxe on Scum, same result as above

[mighty belfry]

Brutal Momentum?

[manic wolf]

Currently, but as mentioned previously, im gonna test SlaughterSpree in place of BM, take Decimator and the cleave on kill talent and see if thats better

[mental trellis]

exactly this.
Because it does no damage you wont build into HV. 1s later and the HV overkill buff already fell off

[mighty belfry]

That's, not how that plays out.

Basically, hypercritical pretty much won't do that if you're doing enough damage to proc hyperviolence on a consistent basis and attack fast enough to keep the buff going and you're doing a lot of damage to ramp it up.

Hypercrit won't really proc in those situations. The only situations where it does actually proc is when you're simply not doing enough damage to utilize hyperviolence anyway, like during Rampage's downtime without a strength stimm.

Or, it's hyperviolence tipping a critical hit on something you managed to cleave through, but wouldn't have killed if it were not for hypercrit.

Which actually makes it pretty good at giving those particular weapons more horde clear too.

[manic wolf]

Thats a niche I hadnt considered much, will give it that

Don't think its gonna motivate me to run it, but its cool i guess

[mighty belfry]

It's weird and inconsistent tbh

But, high attack speed finesse weapons pretty much force it to be consistent

[manic wolf]

I'm gonna test this thing with SlaughterSpree later on, if thats better than HT/BM for HV, then I'll stick with that, if its not, I'll test with HC and HV with the original setup

I sort of expect the Spree setup to push out a lot more damage into HV tho

HC does actually kill Spree procs tho, so it would be pointless taking it on that setup

[mighty belfry]

Yeah that wouldn't be ideal.

Admittedly tac axe, with some setups doing that can be nice.

But if you're running something with Brutal Momentum, or something where it legit just kills a synergy of the actual weapon

Like, yeah there's no reason to at that point

[manic wolf]

Tbh I just wanna maximize the amount of damage being funnelled into HV, if HC works as a by product, cool, but the main focus is never gonna be that

[north crow]

HC actually hampers HV gains tho

[dull dagger]

Anyone else having connection issues at the moment?

My match was lagging and so were others in the match.

[north crow]

Mostly becaues the overdmg part can crit

[manic wolf]

?

The added damage to reach the one shot from HC doesnt crit, and even if it did, it would still be inconsequential

[north crow]

the carry over part can crit and as such, stack it much quicker

not so much when HC negates it

[livid raven]

how does HC negate it

[north crow]

you don't stack HV on HC procs

so if you crit and would have carried over a large chunk on a target you've killed from 80-90% HP

you carry over nothing

and since you will oneshot most human sized things on a shiv crit to begin with...

I still settled for HC only on a shiv rampage build tho

simply because HC is much better during rampage downtime, and I don't need the help when it's up to begin with

[livid raven]

but HC doesn't proc if the strike already killed

[north crow]

have not heard that one before

you saying it crits, and only checks for HP if it wasn't a kill already?

[manic wolf]

Effectively

It kills the HV proc if your weapon doesnt swing fast enough to kill something else, IE; your weapon needs to swing at least twice in a 1s duration, if it does, and one strike procs HC, then the next swing can still benifit from, and add to HV provided it kills something and HC doesnt proc again.

Ofc its more lenient with faster weapons than it is slower ones

[north crow]

thats a lot of hoops to jump

[thorny ginkgo]

my first 17% after 674 hours lmao

[north crow]

took me 4000+ to get a 21% on ogryn

[manic wolf]

Not really, just don't take it with slow weapons, or if you dont want to deal with it, don't take it at all, its not gonna make or break a build

[north crow]

true

I've tried all the combos on shiv rampage

[manic wolf]

I never take it, I don't like it 🤷‍♂️

[north crow]

but building to make rampage downtime as consistent as possible

feels the best to me

rampage is OP as is

so no CDR strimm or HV for me

[manic wolf]

Not taking HV on Rampage is certainly one of the choices of all time

[north crow]

I dont need the more dmg during uptime

I need better hordeclear when its not

HC is better for that

same reason I have an AS + STR stimm instead CDR

consistency

[manic wolf]

It's not lul

HV will carry so much harder during downtime

Particularly if you're using strength stim

Like HC you can take or leave, HV is non-negotiable for melee builds

[north crow]

not really tho

losing 75% melee str will prevent many oneshots without HC

melee "build" is basically having rampage up for the insane boost

mind you, I am specifically talking about shiv rampage only

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. no really...

HV can stack a functionally unlimited amount provided you have enough enemies on screen to fuel it

[north crow]

you aint killing roided up H40 enemies in 1s without rampage often tho

[manic wolf]

There is no reason not to take it. Its not a percentile damage boost like most things are, its flat numbers that can scale, theoretically infinitely

Thing is, you are

But if you don't take it, you will see a massive DPS loss and it will feel like you can't

[astral canyon]

HV on shivs is specially good because you can heavy attack some trash fodder enemy and get some huge overkill value

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. like HV is one of the single best damage talents in the game

Maybe even the best

[upbeat gyro]

Game needs individual hit dmg log that breaks down what constitutes it like in BG3

[covert obsidian]

Is it just me or is the bonesaw like utter trash

Whenever I use it I die

shivs though? They're great.

[upbeat gyro]

slow, cumbersome, low dmg, lackluster everything

you can change its colour though, has that going for it

[livid raven]

bonesaw and crowbar are paying for hivescum's sins

[tranquil fjord]

latch attacks have never been good or effective for their risk

[astral canyon]

Im gonna be honest the latch attack is like the least of bonesaw's problems lol

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw collecting problems like catching pokemon

[livid raven]

the next patch will buff pickpocket and nerf the bonesaw, i think

[zealous ravine]

please nerf the bonesaw give it less cleave

[limber cradle]

I unironically do wonder if PP is actually gonna get nerfed

FS has this aversion to nerfs

[zealous ravine]

its not psyker so nerfs are possible

[limber cradle]

Psyker should genuinely be burnt to the ground atp.

[zealous ravine]

exactly. scriers gaze now does aoe fire damage to all enemies

https://tenor.com/ol7yGypmcZA.gif

[livid raven]

i think it would be cool if scrier gaze got another buff

and another

and another

[zealous ravine]

scriers gaze now deals cold damage on top of fire damage

[astral canyon]

temperature shock strats

[mighty belfry]

Kill horde. Amass tons of overkill. Hit crusher with crit on top of built up overkill.

Crusher die.

[mighty belfry]

Ya. HC will not proc if you were already gonna kill whatever you hit.

Which makes the supposed antisynergy a nothingburger for faster, high finesse weapons.

[unreal stirrup]

mid tbh

[tropic crag]

i feel like the actual anti synergy is doing the same job twice, as in the two nodes do the same job... like you can take them and i won't judge but its why i don't overlap them, same thing with paul and rumbler on ogryn.. to me they do the same job so i don't overlap them

[livid raven]

the reason you take both of them it's because of pickpocket

[mighty belfry]

I don't take pickpocket.

[livid raven]

if there was a way to get it without hc, i'm sure everyone would avoid it too

[mighty belfry]

And you could just use the ammo node if you really wanted to avoid it.

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is a good insurance plan for rampage downtime and cleave distribution circumvention from my experience.

With hyperviolence.

Cuz those rare occasions where you max out rampage's duration and things are still kinda dicey can happen.

[tropic crag]

i feel like i usually have tox blinders for that, but i get you

[mighty belfry]

And while I usually use a strength stimm to make up for that. Sometimes a situation just calls to have as much damage as I possibly can to deal with a really bad situation and double stack.

[tropic crag]

yeah like i don't think its bad but it def doesn't mech with how i build things

[mighty belfry]

I've been running lethal prox rockets with it. I can see why you'd say that for toxin blackouts tbh

[mighty belfry]

O uh

Didn't see that before but

Poxbursters just don't behave like they're supposed to.

Like pushing them but they don't explode.

Or throwing themselves from distance that are just impossible to push them from

Or they're just silent.

At least well over half of them were doing at least one of these things during a havoc I was doing yesterday and it got a bunch of us downed in really stupid ways n_n

[river burrow]

Yeah, bursters in particular have been awful for audio cues/being unable to stop with pushing

[sturdy linden]

so HC+HV is actually worthwhile?

[brittle sierra]

There was a discussion about this a while back

Mods didn't pin it tho

COWARDS!

[limber cradle]

Yes

Very

[sturdy linden]

Pog

[dull dagger]

Oh, yeah I've experienced all those things. That does need to get fixed.

[heavy patio]

i love the anarchist voices so much

especially desperado voicelines

[zenith fern]

The chem nade throw is funny as male anar

STICKY, STICKY, STICKY

[astral canyon]

Same

LET ME SEE THOSE SPLEENS

[zenith fern]

We better have another funny british voice for next class close as male anarchist

[mighty belfry]

I messed this up when I first did it. Updated now.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a105cccf-523f-4479-b256-78316b7ff8cd/hyperfinesse-hive-terror

[low harbor]

Why VI boltpistol

[mighty belfry]

Bigger explosion radius for more space in a really dense horde.

It's not really meant to be a proper ranged weapon more than a filler for blackouts.

But it still is at least decent with specialist sniping if I really need it. And if not killing them, there's no way they won't at least get staggered before they decide to pull their bullshit.

[tropic crag]

thats mostly how i use the bistol on scum tbh

i think okri showed me a video of it and i've been using it since lol

[mighty belfry]

I prefer it over needle Pistol if I'll be completely honest

Just feels like it synergizes better for a melee build

[tropic crag]

i still sometimes take the needler in havoc but its kind of build by build with that

but i agree it just feels like it mostly flows better overall

[mighty belfry]

I'd do it if I'm taking a setup that isnt innately great against carapace

Like a heavy sword build

Especially since that actually has good horde clear & control.

But for stuff like shivs or combat knife, bistol just feels better

[tropic crag]

yeah basically, if i feel like i need a stronger option for armo i bring the needler, otherwise its the mini blitz bistol

[mighty belfry]

I really don't need help with crushers lol

[tropic crag]

yeah i've been mostly pairing it with the chaxe

[astral canyon]

No battering strikes?

[mighty belfry]

Nope.

Don't need it.

[astral canyon]

Hm

[mighty belfry]

I used to run battering but, took it off.

Barely feel any real difference in practice.

Especially since most of the time, you either have rampage buffing your cleave

A strength stimm buffing it.

[tropic crag]

i feel like its easy to accidently stack up overkill on some nodes and blessings on scum

because so many things are such high value even as standalones

[mighty belfry]

Yeap.

Not only that but if you really need extra cleave, just shoot the bolt pistol at your feet.

Or anywhere you know it's gonna stagger a bunch of stuff.

[tropic crag]

right sometimes you can just shoot it pointblank into the poor poxie in front of you lol

and stagger them all

honestly i've liked the bistol on other classes for a while so i was always probably going to use it on scum, but after realizing how good building it for cc like that is i've been just full hooked

[manic wolf]

Same, very useful weapon

[exotic temple]

I wonder if the mark 6 explosions could get similar use as black outs

[mighty belfry]

That's why I use it

Temu blackouts

[mental trellis]

i see another fellow mk 6 Bolt enjoyer. 🙂

pickpocket kinda too OP not to pick though

especially with the lower capacity mk6

[mighty belfry]

Pickpocket doesn't really do anything for me with this build tbh

If I have a vet on the team, there's legit no concern at all for ammo constraints.

If not, I just run gunslinger and that's enough to hold me by.

I just can't justify running pickpocket when there are things I would much rather have on a melee build that will actually complement it.

Even if it's objectively overpowered

The most I could do is take off Forge's Bellow. And I value that on Rampage builds more than Pickpocket tbch

Maybe Coated Weaponry but that actually helps with sustaining big dps on bosses which matters quite a bit for Havoc.

[candid flint]

loving the honesty, man

[mighty belfry]

Like. I get how strong it is. I know people swear by using it even for melee builds but truly in practice, I have never felt it actually do anything for me for the times I've tried using it.

I don't use ammo enough on melee builds to justify having an extra talent specifically for it when I can just run an aura that's actually pretty good for that exact purpose.

Even in rotten armor where people swear by pickpocket with needler

As long as you do enough damage, you don't need it there either.

[exotic temple]

If you run over to hc it’s just one more talent point

[mighty belfry]

Just one talent.

When I've already used my points for everything I want.

[exotic temple]

But that’s like The only selling point in a melee build

[mighty belfry]

What?

No it isn't.

[manic wolf]

Pickpocket is pretty much sure to get gutted at somepoint anyway so no sense in getting used to it till we know what it looks like longer term

[mighty belfry]

Even in havoc

I am pressed to get below half my ammo count. Because I barely ever need to use that much ammo.

Why would I take a talent that virtually will see no use because I actually bother to be conservative with my ammo?

[manic wolf]

Yeah, particularly not with BPistol, its just a stagger stick outside the odd sniper or bomber

[mighty belfry]

It just doesn't make sense.

If anything. The one time I ever experienced having issues with ammo

Is because the team I was running with

Had absolutely no means of dealing with ranged pressure and I had to take the mantle on that

Which, if the melee scum is needing to take over for ranged control

There's a problem that pickpocket is not going to fix

[mighty belfry]

It was the game where this happened actually #hivescum-class message

[manic wolf]

Actual specimen lmao

Does anyone who knows what they're doing even run the Flamer on Zealot these days?

[mighty belfry]

Honestly. I don't even think so. I played with an absolutely cracked stealth zealot a few nights ago.

Using the aoe bolter.

I don't really see the flamer much anymore.

Which, honestly. Good. Because usually people running flamer tend to run dueling sword, which does like

No horde clear at all

So then they have to rely on flamer for hordes.

And that's how you get situations like that.

Doesn't help that there was a purge psyker and an ogryn with a rumbler that game

[dawn wyvern]

Hey, what's the most convenient way to finish the Enhanced penance ? It goes sooo slow

[mighty belfry]

Run the toughness branch on your stimm

That regenerates toughness fully.

[dawn wyvern]

The one that replenishes 25# toughness ? I'll try, thanks !

[mighty belfry]

And also. You have to actually regain toughness.

You can't just use it at full.

[sturdy linden]

That penance is actual dogpoop

[dawn wyvern]

I got 500 progress in one game, very good tips, thanks again

[austere coyote]

I swear the tracking on it is borked

I've had it go up 0 after some games where I've used stimm at 0 toughness

[manic wolf]

Was gonna say not seen it for ages at this point

[tropic crag]

there is something that breaks it... i think if you take the node that gives you toughness on stim use it breaks the tracking because that toughness doesn't count for it and happens first

[woeful jackal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/vhs-scum-Wq3P3qGFzmu1fnq0fx

[manic wolf]

No u

[woeful jackal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/apple-macintosh-v0ok8uhZvw3yE

[spice cloud]

Its for bullwarks thats it.

Cause bullwark congas are stupid and the flamer is essentially the only ranged weapon to deal with that.

Also knifes exist to help the flamer exist and i really never use my ranged weapon as zealot anyway.

Unless its bullwark

[livid raven]

it's also for bursters so the poor idiot who is the closest to them explodes into thousand pieces

[exotic temple]

i feel like we are missing context, like is the poor idiot closest to them a psyker? In which case all is justified.

[tardy cedar]

So what is the current best Hive Scum build? I'm still only using Epic Cole's from pins

[pulsar aspen]

@tardy cedar You make sure to grab pickpocket and a needle pistol. Now you have your best build. A weapon that works against everything while having infinite ammo.

[tardy cedar]

I think ainz has a meta build on gamelantern

[manic wolf]

Probably best not to pick things that are gonna get hammered at somepoint, but thats just my two cents

[delicate estuary]

just instant panic button

[mental trellis]

guess its fine for auric

[spice cloud]

Pickpocket is useless if u dont run desperado.

Pepega tax node

[verbal dew]

wat

I have ranged crate builds that have me at pickpocket range for like the whole game

[spice cloud]

Pickpocket is THE tax node that just screams I HAVE SKILL ISSUE AND I CANT MELEE

[mental trellis]

pickpocket is so you dont take any ammo pickups for the ammo hungry team

[verbal dew]

I mean I don't want to melee sometimes

[spice cloud]

If u make a melee build…why not just…use ur melee

[mental trellis]

but in auric. you could do whatever anyway. plenty of drops

[spice cloud]

So u can in havoc

Weak excuse to waste multiple points

Just not waste ammo?

[verbal dew]

I mean yeah if you're a melee build sure

[spice cloud]

I cant wait for that dogshit ability to get nerfed

[verbal dew]

it's not useless outside of desperado tho

[spice cloud]

It is

[verbal dew]

useless on rampage sure

[spice cloud]

What do you need it for?

If u never go below 20% ammo?

[mental trellis]

saying its weak is also saying not taking the talent is also weak.

[verbal dew]

you're making the case that all ranged builds use desperado

[spice cloud]

[mental trellis]

also with desperado. you already have infinite without pickpocket technically

[spice cloud]

Sure your needler „build“ doesnt.

[verbal dew]

not using needler

[spice cloud]

Only during activation

[mental trellis]

just melee until it comes back problem solved

[spice cloud]

Yeah i mean that would be how desperado would work ideally

Without pickpocket.

[delicate estuary]

pickpocket is great for needle pistol asw

[manic wolf]

If you have Desperado, why do you need Pickpocket either tbh

All it does it make an aura irrelevant and be a crutch node for people with no trigger discipline

Needs to be either massively nerfed so it doesnt break the ammo aura or straight up removed in lew of something else

Also, the only reason Vet's "infinite" ammo node is tolerable is because it only effects certain weapons and is only actually infinite with Hellbore, an like.. you actually have to work to make that gun functional in higher difficulty runs, so fair enough quite frankly

[spice cloud]

I agree

[spice cloud]

Its great for any ranged weapon. Its straight up brokem with the needler.

[manic wolf]

Its broken with IAG, Shredder and DAPs aswell

[spice cloud]

But its also unnecessary if u are melee

[manic wolf]

Funny you say that.. I have a Desperado/Adrenaline build i run on occasion for memes...

....Still dont take Pickpocket

[spice cloud]

Yes but these dont do what needler does

They are very good but not as broken

Paired with sample collector etc

[manic wolf]

I mean, no, but also kinda yes. You can't shit on Crushers and Bosses with them as easily, but they're still gamebreaking because you're effectively playing Purgatus Psyker, but without the damage ramp-up

[spice cloud]

Yeah

I dare say the other guns require a modicum of skill

[manic wolf]

Not when you have actually unlimited ammo they don't

[spice cloud]

Its still easy af but armor is an issue

[manic wolf]

Missed a bunch of times? Oh well, you'll hit shots at somepoint and then you get all those missed shots back

[spice cloud]

You have rockets still but u know what i mean

[manic wolf]

Yeah, you do actually have to engage with the melee systems when not playing Needler, that much is true, even if its rarely

I don't think that justifies Pickpocket existing tho

[spice cloud]

When im out of rockets that is

[manic wolf]

Lmao

Real

But when are you ever out of rockets? Scum straight up stole Ogryn's grenade priviledges like the Ogryn's steal the Zealot's lunch

[spice cloud]

Looking back im not sure the rocket buff was nevessary

[manic wolf]

Kinda true, it didnt need the blast radius increase, just the extra charge, they kinda overdid it by buffing both

[spice cloud]

Yeah i think so too

If ur team leaves the nades to u theres really no reason to ever pull out the ol melee

[delicate estuary]

but its so fun to panic button

[spice cloud]

It is fun

But at what cost?

[tardy cedar]

My prediction is if Rocket Scum becomes too common ppl will start deleting them like they do Smykers

[spice cloud]

[manic wolf]

Rocket can probably be dialed back a bit without anyone really having an issue, but you just know that if Pickpocket, Desp' ranged immunity or VD get nerfed people are gonna mald about it for weeks

[spice cloud]

Oh for sure

They can still go back to arby tho

[manic wolf]

Lmao

[tardy cedar]

The fact Scum cn crry 3 rockets (where? up his ass?)

but Ogryn can only carry one frag bomb

[manic wolf]

Prison pocket gets bigger the more times you push contraband into it

Or dicks into it, if thats your thing

[spice cloud]

Scum prolly does have a large prison pocket tho

[manic wolf]

Cavernous most likely

[spice cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/when-calls-the-heart-hearties-season9-how-jail-works-mountie-gif-25282881

[tardy cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-oralie-simon-adbisi-oz-اوز-رايان-اورالي-gif-5235140109429985632

[zenith fern]

Power creep is real

[manic wolf]

Just gonna say it, been a problem since first skill tree reworks

[zenith fern]

[spice cloud]

Its too real

[tardy cedar]

I think it's a Vet talent

but I've been scumming and ended up with 4 rockets instead of 3

https://tenor.com/view/too-tight-tight-pants-tight-cant-walk-tight-clothes-gif-12461734

too many rpgs stuffed up there

[spice cloud]

Imagine we get a talent that gives u a 50% movement debuff for double rockets

[manic wolf]

The fourth one is acting like a plug to hold the other three (and your stims) in place

That wouldnt work, we don't have duelling sword to crab-walk everywhere with

[spice cloud]

Once u spend half the debuff is gone

[manic wolf]

I would take that over Pickpocket tbh

[spice cloud]

I should get into game design

[manic wolf]

PSA for TacAxe enjoyers....

Slaughterspree on Scum is absurdly busted when it comes to stacking up Hyperviolence

[flat mist]

Interesting, im curious what your effective crit rate ends up being with slaughterspree

[manic wolf]

Yes

All of it

Though its largely not about crit rate, its about how much damage it feeds into HV

End up oneshotting Crushers an shit

Decimator/Slaughterspree, take the cleave on kill node so you're not totally out of pocket with no BM an just go to town

[flat mist]

I would never take decimator over headtaker. If you whiff you don't get an equal amount of strength again until hit 6?

[manic wolf]

On Combat Axe, I wouldn't either, but on TacAxe, its much less of a problem due to its speed

Where you're really seeing the boost is when you start swinging heavies into stuff you're less likely to miss anyway, it doesnt matter hugely if you drop stacks breifly vs trash, and you probably wont drop stacks vs specials and elites

[flat mist]

Its not about attack speed, its about what % of attacks you whiff

[manic wolf]

Yesn't, attack speed plays a part because it dictates how fast you get stacks back when/if you whiff

[flat mist]

It doesn't matter, because chain hit number X represents the same amount of strength whether it takes 2s or 6s

[manic wolf]

Its two special chains with MKIV, thats no time at all lol

[flat mist]

The time doesn't matter, its how many attacks went without a higher level of strength

[manic wolf]

The time literally does matter, because thats gonna add up over the course of a mission, if you miss, say 7% of your attacks over the course of a mission with Caxe, you'er spending a lot less time with the bonus active over the run than you are with a weapon that gains them back much faster. It literally plays a huge part

[flat mist]

Lets say you have two weapons. One swings every 5s , another swings every 1s. You whiff on average every 10 attacks on both weapons. Weapon one reaches 5 or greater stacks at 25s and the stacks fall off at 50s, weapon two reaches 5 stacks at 5s and they drop off at 10s.

You're suggesting that weapon 2 is better, because you get your stacks back faster, but both weapons are attacking with 5 or more stacks exactly 50% of the time and both weapons have exactly 50% uptime on greater than 5 stacks

The attack speed turns out to be irrelevant for the effectiveness of the buff if the whiff rate is the same

[manic wolf]

Right, but thats not factoring in the nature of the game. You want your damage back as fast as possible if you do end up dropping stacks, which should be relatively rare provided you're playing well. In a high pressure situation, where you need as many things dead as possible, getting that damage, say, 5x faster in this example (the difference between Caxe and TacAxe is 3x) You're getting that damage back when you actually need it, not relying on teammates picking up the slack when your bonus' do drop

[flat mist]

(Btw im totally open to the idea that im conceptualising this wrong, i love arguing about this stuff)

[flat mist]

You keep saying you get it back faster but it also drops off faster because we're talking about chain attack blessings

[manic wolf]

Its the same deal as the "this on dodge skill has low uptime", like yes, it does, but its active when you need it

[flat mist]

If this was a discussion about headtaker you'd be right

[manic wolf]

Its the same deal for both, you're just trading a sine for a flatter curve, over the course of a mission, having higher peaks, provided you're playing well, is going to work out as more damage even with the odd loss of stacks

[flat mist]

It is not at all the same deal for both.

That it falls off when you whiff is a fundamental part of my argument and the actual numbers ive provided

[manic wolf]

No, it really is. vs a dense horde you're very unlikely to drop stacks with Deci', and the instances where you're most likely to lose them are moments of downtime or minimal enemy counts, at which point you are likely to lose HT stacks aswell

[flat mist]

I think we've lost the thread because i was talking about the importance of whiff rate

[manic wolf]

You also have to factor in HV to this equation because the higher your peaks, the more damage you are funnelling into that

[flat mist]

And you're now also saying that whiff rate is what matters

[manic wolf]

No... I'm addressing the points you've made.

Don't be deliberately difficult

[flat mist]

Ok, man. Peace out. This was a good discussion until that. i have no idea why you think I'm being deliberately difficult. Im discussing in complete good faith.

[manic wolf]

We're talking about potentially double the damage bonus' with Decimator, this is pretty much always going to be better for a decent player to run on TacAxe because HV exists

Bigger bonus = bigger funnelling = overall much more damage

[upbeat gyro]

Didnt like Taxe too much on Arbiter, but should try still Hivescum because HV & HC

Rashad on Hivescum, while good, felt too slow

[mental trellis]

D. Claw slaps. Assault chainsword gets honorable mention. If it bled by default from rev like the blessing it’d have way more usage.

[upbeat gyro]

Does Taxe beat Shivs though in average? Or are they the king?

[manic wolf]

They're interchangeable

They both get massive milage out of Scum's bonus' but in different ways

You'll get more out of HV with TacAxe, you'll get more out of Coated with Shivs, etc

[mental trellis]

The main benefit of shivs is its ease of use against hordes too. Plus the throwing knives.

[upbeat gyro]

Meanwhile, i dont use coated...

[manic wolf]

Sure, but thats just an example

[zenith fern]

One frame taxe swings

[slate vector]

Quickest heavy attack melee? Trying to do "Brutal Bludgeons" penance

[livid raven]

mk3 shiv

[lavish bronze]

or mk9 heavy sword

[astral canyon]

Or mk4 chaxe

[lavish bronze]

idk about that one

i did it with crowbar for the most part

[manic wolf]

Shiv/TacAxe

[tardy cedar]

So what is the current meta shiv build for unkillable hiver?

Is this? https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07adc41-3631-4e00-ad47-e449a859ad36/havoc-melee-scum-fuplaayz

[livid raven]

it takes long lasting stim so it isn't that one

it also has a shit tier stim distribution imo

[tardy cedar]

Mk 1 or Mk ii shivs?

[livid raven]

mk1 are better against single target, mk3 are better against hordes but must use their push attack for single target

[astral canyon]

Mk3 also has faster light attack spam

[livid raven]

Yeah mk3 doesn't use tge heavies against hordes i don't think

They look so silly too

[tardy cedar]

[muted pivot]

I think the 1s are the most popular by far

And it's easy to see why, very easy moveset that's effective against everything

[tropic bough]

the only way you get your heavy stab attack on the mk3 is by doing a push attack, mk 1s are a bit better for consistent stabbage.

[upbeat gyro]

Quick And Deadly does nothing in that build

Ranged damage for needler is irrelevant, it does dmg through dots

Also no Hyper Violence

Jittery is also very much worth picking over those memetier chem nodes

Can count total 5 unnecessary talents in that tree

And its missing some core ones

[livid raven]

quick and deadly also applies to melee

[livid raven]

yeah

[upbeat gyro]

Typical Fatshark moment in description

Couldnt be anymore misleading

[tropic bough]

“ranged damage” oh yeah also all damage.

[livid raven]

it's more like

close-ranged damage

[upbeat gyro]

"Increases any damage by 15% against enemies within a 12.5m radius for 3s"

Could have been perhaps better then

[livid raven]

if they were smart, and they obviously aren't, it would have been written as "all damage against enemies up to 12.5m is increased by up to 15%

or whatever are the numbers

[upbeat gyro]

Ive checked the Scum guide plenty on nodes, but didnt even cross my mind to check something that obvious

Well, this changes things i guess, actually useful node then for melee

[upbeat gyro]

First purchase from Brunts, Emperor wills it!

Only had 100k credits to my name so 10 tries

[manic wolf]

Best weapon in the game

Not the best moveset tho, OG Shovel wins that particular honour

[upbeat gyro]

Seems like wild blessing combo though

Lacks clear badly without brutal momentum?

But, guess i could try, atleast unique

Chem Dep or Adrenaline with this Deci/Slghtspree blessing Taxe?

[manic wolf]

In terms of cleave you lose out, but in terms of damage you get massive gains because Hyperviolence is a thing

So whilst chopping through trash might be a bit slower, mixed horde is easier as stuff that would otherwise be dangerous just kinda melts

As I say, i was one shotting Crushers with it earlier

I went Adrenaline, you could use Chem Dep if you wanted to tho

Ofc Rampage is a must-take, an you probs want strength/crit stim too

[upbeat gyro]

Took Finesse to max out those crazy crits when on 100% streak, but crit sounds good too

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a10840a8-58b9-437f-9283-4d7f8ca919ad/decispreetaxehvcritter

That was close, barely got to make it

Unyielding to something else maybe?

[manic wolf]

Rending node on Rampage

I run Flak/Maniac, but yeah you could run that too

[upbeat gyro]

Ah, Taxe wants that?

How about rending on stimm though?

[manic wolf]

Gets you closer to full damage on armour

Ehh, you could do that, but personally I don't use stim with two branches because the cooldown is horrendous, but im guessing as you have Sample Collector you probably have Needle Gun

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah on both

Even pickpocket as plan B

[pulsar aspen]

Pickpocket as a plan B?

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah, thicc mixed pack full of crushers 50m away, spam needler before engaging

[pulsar aspen]

Let me rephrase, pickpocket as a plan B while running a Needle Gun?

[manic wolf]

Pickpocket is a waste of a point on Rampage build imo

[upbeat gyro]

Ill keep it while learning

[manic wolf]

Its also the crutchiest crutch node to ever crutch

[pulsar aspen]

When you go this far, why not just use Pickpocket Needle Gun as Plan A anyway?

[upbeat gyro]

I need crutches, im a junkie, if there is way to go below the fence, ill do it

Nah, because i like the idea ill have 2 builds in one

And both work depending on situation

[pulsar aspen]

The fact that this is possible is.. not good.

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah pickpocket is dodgy good

But i am a scum, not some build ethics inspector

[pulsar aspen]

https://tenor.com/bpGHG.gif

[upbeat gyro]

Ill let the better players do that part

I still take every advantage i can from talent tree and builds without guilt

[pulsar aspen]

Do whatever you want, i won't judge that.

I simply think it is not good that melee builds can be combined with pickpocket to also be sustainable on ranged weapons.

Especially when something like the Needle Gun exists.

[upbeat gyro]

I can take the cheesiest of cheese build and still go down on havoc 21 so its all fine in the end

[pulsar aspen]

True.

[upbeat gyro]

I feel i suck there, but then often the team sucks even way more, so dunno 🤷‍♂️

[manic wolf]

Even if you couldnt and it was a subnode on Vulture keystone it would still need an internal cooldown of like 20s and to only proc on melee kills for it to be remotely balanced

[pulsar aspen]

@manic wolf I agree with that, it working every time on the current conditions is just leagues above any other existing talent, not just in the Hive Scum tree.

[upbeat gyro]

Maybe make it so that chem dotted targets that get melee killed trigger it, atleast demand some investment

[manic wolf]

Pretty much, plus it also invalidates the actually quite cool ammo aura that isnt just Survivalist 2.0

Tbh if I had a say, I'd just rip Pickpocket out entirely and put something else in its place, but alas

[pulsar aspen]

You'd cause a lot of salt

[upbeat gyro]

If i was to design hivescum, id give it snortables as alternative to stimms

Healthier scum alternative

Maybe glasspipe

[manic wolf]

Theres gonna be mountains of it anyway when it gets nerfed, and I wouldnt be shocked if Desp' loses its ranged immunity at somepoint, which will make people equally upset

[manic wolf]

"healthier"

[pulsar aspen]

I can't wait for that

[manic wolf]

Lmao

[upbeat gyro]

IV is worst of the worst, thats how you get hepatitis/HIV and can go through your blood-brain-barrier and impurities straight to bloodstream

[livid raven]

damn i'd be amazed if despacito lost its ranged immunity

[manic wolf]

Depends how dirty your gear is, same is kinda true for anything really

[livid raven]

it's already the worst of the three

[manic wolf]

Lul, Desperado stans will do anything to justify its existence 😉

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah obviously, i mean they do IV in hospitals so in such setting it is okay. Just when its some junkie level street stuff, then snorthing is considerably safer alterantive to shooting up your vein

[manic wolf]

Generally, though you'd expect a high value Enforcer to be getting that good-good

[pulsar aspen]

Luckily, this is 40K, so the Emperor protects.

[manic wolf]

I saw a meme once of Emperor branded condoms and it forever ruined that phrase for me

[upbeat gyro]

Cant decide between 15% rending, 35% finesse or 15% crit rate on stim, maybe rending if skipping Rampage rending node

[dire badge]

Whats your melee weapon and do u have rending on rampage

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a10840a8-58b9-437f-9283-4d7f8ca919ad/decispreetaxehvcritter

Cooking that build up, as it got suggested here

Havent yet tried it

I can already foresee in my crystal ball suggestion to remove pickpocket and take rending node on rampage instead, would be the logical 🥺

[manic wolf]

Indeed

[upbeat gyro]

+5% crit instead of Unyielding as perk on Taxe? 🤔

That 100% needs to start, after that it would be kinda unnecessary

[manic wolf]

I'm not using it, with stim I have about 30% crit chance on heavies without Butterfly active, you really don't need giga-crit chance to profit from Slaughter, its a nice QoL thing to make it super consistent, but you'll always be giving up something for more crit chance

I didnt feel like I needed more when i played with it earlier, but i will test again later with Chem Dep' an see if there is any uptick

[upbeat gyro]

My main issue probably is im not used to such precision play where you cant just spam M1 around wildly

[manic wolf]

So long as your Scum isnt a shortass it shouldnt be hard to hit stuff in the head

[upbeat gyro]

Always make tallest possible for that

Easier to see priority targets in hordes

[bronze glade]

spamming at head height in thick hordes gives me something like 60% weakspot rate

sometimes even lower

[manic wolf]

Don't need to go above 3/5ths the way up the height bar, but yeah thats pretty sensible

[bronze glade]

max height character

[manic wolf]

Hey at least you dont have to look up at varying degrees like you do when you go midget-mode

[upbeat gyro]

What happened to short kings (dwarves) in WH40k? They are in medieval fantasy version

[manic wolf]

You mean the Leagues? They exist in 40K

They're just reclusive

Tend to avoid the Imperium

[upbeat gyro]

Ill certainly try Taxe with the usual Headtaker+BrutalMomentum combo too after this, but this just seemed like fun more unique way to play it

Ok, my WH40k knowledge aint that great, mostly from videogames

[manic wolf]

This is simply just to funnel maximum damage into HV

[upbeat gyro]

I was sold at possibility to oneshotting crusher, gotta atleast try

[manic wolf]

People gonna disagree with me here, but unless you're whiffing 20% of your swings, Decimator is better than HT anyway

[upbeat gyro]

Im probably somewhere 30% range on my current playstyle 😅 Gotta pay more attention, why i wanna try it too

Maybe could improve my gameplay

[manic wolf]

You'll certainly feel when you whiff more often, though HV will still carry when you do because it should stack up very quickly

[upbeat gyro]

I kinda like the weapons where you have to accurately land your hits constantly like heavy spam on duelling sword

[manic wolf]

Yeah, just be more deliberate with your movement, and don't forget to push stuff plenty if you feel like you're getting pressured too much

Pushing, once upon a time, used to kill your Decimator stacks, but thankfully they did fix that

[upbeat gyro]

Ill try Auric first instead of Havoc, unless i find like 1-20 lowbie team to join for hunting black armor penance

Good to know about pushing

[manic wolf]

Probably wise, nothing wrong with Auric, at least other than the teammates you're likely to get

[upbeat gyro]

Honestly, auric has been lot more solid than low havocs, when it comes to teammates

[manic wolf]

I mean I can see that, an Auric where the director actually goes a bit awol is basically like Havoc 20-25 anyway

Though I must admit, I do miss old Auric where the director would randomly decide to snort all the coke in his office and spawn an infinite amount of bullshit on you, but that seems to not happen these days

[verbal dew]

you can get that on maelstroms

also done with the event, the pox gas makes it a bit tedious in the end

[manic wolf]

Kinda, but it isnt how it used to be, like it used to just keep spawning shit constantly when it broke, but this was a long time ago now

[verbal dew]

I've only been playing for a year so

[upbeat gyro]

@manic wolf Should i take off Hypercritical so it wont interfere with Hyperviolence stacking?

[woeful trellis]

if we take the description from kuli's guide "Hitting 'human-sized' enemies with a critical melee attack kills the target instantly if the target were to be left with an amount of current health that was less than the attack's damage dealt.", it sounds like hypercrit only does anything in situations where hyperviolence would never trigger

because for hypercrit to trigger, you need to have crit an enemy with an attack that would have left them with some health i.e. wouldn't have killed them (and if you wouldn't have killed them with the crit, hyperviolence would not have done anything)

[dire badge]

So both keystones are good to have then on a melee build?

[woeful trellis]

idk lol

depends on how much you crit i guess

[dire badge]

If I crit a lot what should I take

Or both

[low harbor]

it only triggers in cases where hyperV would need additional hits to kill

[woeful trellis]

ah i can see the case where hyperC screws you out of some hyperV damage

if you crit an enemy and leave them at like 10% hp, hyperC instantly kills them. but if you didn't have hyperC, you could hit that 10% hp dude again (because they would still be alive) and overkill them by like 80%, getting some overkill hyperV damage

[livid raven]

Surely killing them in the first place would have been better tho

[woeful trellis]

yeah

but technically hyperC can screw you out of hyperV

if you're trying to farm hyperV damage from poxwalkers to burst a crusher maybe? idk how easy that is to do though

[astral canyon]

just do a heavy single target attack on them

[woeful trellis]

it also depends on how damaging your crits are (e.g. if your crits already oneshot trash then hyperC won't screw you out of hyperV damage because your crit will already overkill them, which means hyperC doesn't trigger and you get hyperV)

[astral canyon]

like mk1 shiv heavies

[unreal stirrup]

im pretty sure hypercrit proc doesnt have overkill damage

[woeful trellis]

yeah but hypercrit only procs if you wouldn't have overkilled to begin with - i edited my earlier msg for more clarity

[astral canyon]

yeah but if your crit already kills the enemy then hc wont proc in the first place

[woeful trellis]

afaik the logic is "i crit an enemy -> is the crit enough to kill them? if yes, cool i get hyperV & we're done here, if no and they're low enough for the execute then hyperC triggers and executes them"

[upbeat gyro]

Well, first mission with these "weird" blessings went fine, havoc20 but i didnt see any crusher oneshots 🤷‍♂️

But Tac Axe feels amazing

Gonna try Brutal+Headtaker next, maybe chem dep to maximize crits too

I wish the stimm was faster to use, as it is, i keep forgetting it as its kinda annoying to use

And often i dont really even see much difference

For now, took Rampage rending and chem on crit for crushers

Decimator made me holdback too much swinging as i kept missing too much

So probably big DPS loss for my skill level

[main trellis]

What weapon you wanna use with that?

[dire badge]

I hate to even say his name in this chat but I saw tanners explanation on it and hyperC does really screw you out of hyperV.

If it procs you won't get the hyperV value. Ofc if you insta kill trash it won't matter but even then the insta kill is less hyperV value.

[astral canyon]

Tanner💀

[delicate estuary]

tanner as a source icant

[bronze glade]

tanner is a good source of endless laughs

https://tenor.com/view/kk-gif-15803140109120205266

[dire badge]

Yeah he's fucking annoying but when he shows his actual testing via clips I can filter through his BS because I'm seeing the actual difference

[zenith fern]

With rambling and stutters

Instead be like reginald

Or read the kilo guides and hammer of emperor unless you have short attention span to read in which is like half of darktide players

[bronze glade]

hyper crit / hyper v have been tested extensively

by path and others

and the anti-synergy argument is dubious at best

[dire badge]

Does kilo guide go over hyper violence if so can you link it

[zenith fern]

They are pinned in some channels

I think is on gameplay help

[dire badge]

Idk I man logically it makes sense right?
Insta kill by C is no V value.
Overkill trash in one hit is little V value.
Cutting them to deaths door and then overkill is big V value

[upbeat gyro]

Tacaxe

[astral canyon]

Yeah the antisynergy is only an issue in theory

[dire badge]

Ty

[astral canyon]

In practice taking both is still a net positive

[dire badge]

I mean I saw two clips, it's a big dmg dif

[bronze glade]

which clips? 🤔

[upbeat gyro]

Should i grab the cleave talent on tac axe?

[bronze glade]

no

if you have brumentum

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah i do now

[dire badge]

The one in tanners video. Yes ik he's a dupship I'm just quoting what I saw.
Insta kill got Nov alue and an over kill got only a little bit of the V value.

Overkilling a trashmob at full health

[bronze glade]

well try it out in psyk in practice

[brittle sierra]

He doesn't do control tests

He's all over the place in his explanations

[bronze glade]

against 20 bruisers or something

and check the clear numbers

[dire badge]

Would it be different against twenty bruisers? He tested it on single trash mobs and a pack of twenty trash mobs

[bronze glade]

doesn't have to be bruisers no, it's just to observe whether taking hypercrit diminishes the value of hyperv in horde clear

[dire badge]

Then in his explanation and clip it does

[bronze glade]

do you have the clip of the test?

[dire badge]

But I'm gonna test it myself later this week to be sure with leaderboard score and dmg

[dire badge]

Just the whole video

[bronze glade]

lol ok not watching that shit

[brittle sierra]

What fundamentally matters at the end of the day is how many mobs you kill in a specific amount of time

HC is good at one shotting elites, HV is good at clearing trash due to the overkill damage being useful at constantly stacking in mobs. There is little overlap between what they provide.

Even when Path did a super control test of killing only maulers, having both doesn't lower the overall damage output.

The only interesting conclusion from the test was that having HV/HC with the Rashad seems to do the same amount of damage as just HV of you have Rampage up.

[dire badge]

Fair but honestly if you filter out his BS just watching the clips gives you a better understanding

[bronze glade]

yeah exactly, the two talents serve different purposes

[brittle sierra]

But having both HV/HC never lowers the overall damage output.

[main trellis]

if you use mk4 taxe you don't need rending on heavies; they have innate 30% rending on heavy attacks as far as i know so your dmg vs cara is like 95%

[dire badge]

But wouldn't you be one shottint elites anyways with hv overkill from trash?

[bronze glade]

i think you're really overestimating the effect of hyperv in single target

[brittle sierra]

Do you always have a nice pack of trash mobs for you to kill first before you switch to the elite?

[bronze glade]

it's cool when it happens, but it's not exactlyr eliable

[brittle sierra]

Again, path did the test with only elites

Because this is the worst case scenario

[dire badge]

In havoc 30s most of the time

[brittle sierra]

Even if we were to assume the best case scenario for HV

Having HC doesn't hurt your ability to one shot the elites

[dire badge]

I see what you're getting at but what about that example of getting a trash mob to less than half hp and then killing for hv? If you had HC they just dead no value

[brittle sierra]

And if you don't?

You loose all value anyways

[dire badge]

Then less dmg? You're hurting hv value now by HC in that sceneaio

[brittle sierra]

Like in paths' demo

He shows how having rampage makes HV scale in value the same as HV/HC

in other words there is extremely little difference in damage output even in the best case scenario where you are in rampage

[dire badge]

Okay you're right in that scenario. But with shivs and rampage, shivs do X3 dmg on a weak spot hit. If you played around HV and kept it in mind could you body shot hordes and then heavy over kill them, use that to start decimating crushers and maulers?

[upbeat gyro]

Swinging this atm

[woeful trellis]

after 1s of hitting an elite, HV will disappear because you aren't overkilling a crusher/mauler by more than you overkilled a poxwalker (edit: actually this is probably possible if you manage to tune your damage just right so you have HV stacked up just enough to get an elite down to very low hp, and still active while you do a crit overkill afterwards, but it seems very unreliable). i don't think it's ever worth it to spend extra time dicking around with poxwalkers (and even going for body shots? that sounds extremely inefficient especially in a real game where other teammates might accidentally steal kills that you're spending time and effort to set up) on a weapon that doesn't have brutal momentum compared to just using that time to spam more heavies into an elite

[brittle sierra]

Path says it's the same

You will need to ask them for the test tho I don't think he recorded it

I would imagine that HC is better on shivs just because of the higher value from finesse and crit rate on them

[lilac crystal]

Really nice

[upbeat gyro]

I like how you can sprint and fire needler, softens up crushers while going at em, then swinging that to finish

[mighty belfry]

ah the HV/HC debate spikes once again

[mighty belfry]

it don't

To explain, whenever hypercrit would "screw" you out of hyperviolence, you already weren't doing enough damage to take advantage of hyperviolence to begin with.

[zenith fern]

Very hyped debate

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is the insurance plan for when hyperviolence can't be as consistent

Like, when you're on rampage downtime with no stimms or something

Or, it's a boon in combination with hyperviolence, as when you're cleaving through hordes, cleave distribution hurts your damage on the next target in the swing, but if you get some overkill, sometimes hyperviolence kicks in to tip your damage just enough to make a crit hit hypercrit's condition, letting you kill something you normally wouldn't have without it.

If hypercrit actually canceled out hyperviolence's benefit, the answer would be clear as to not use both together.

But it doesn't.

[mighty belfry]

I honestly think it's more worth running that aura than taking the extra point for pickpocket

At least on a melee build

I've been running it more on havoc and it's legit impossible to run out of ammo with an surv vet, or it's a good replacement for a surv vet.

[covert obsidian]

how tf do I speed this up

[livid raven]

throw yourself into fire pools

[covert obsidian]

that's gonna be so annoying...

ugh.

[brittle sierra]

Top left stimm lab

[covert obsidian]

thank you

[livid raven]

you weren't using that?

the stimm that replenishes toughness?

[covert obsidian]

barely

only in my enhanced desperado build, and like, only one slot in it

gameslantern builds didn't have it so why should I?

(clueless)

[brittle sierra]

Brother read the penance 💀

[livid raven]

no it's garbage normally

[covert obsidian]

Oh no I didn't notice this until now

[brittle sierra]

Gameslantern strikes again 😔

[livid raven]

but if you are trying for that achievement, you need that

[covert obsidian]

yeah that will be sucky

gonna have to grief like 10 games

building fucking toughness stimms

[brittle sierra]

Are there even any good builds for scum on GL?

[livid raven]

around 4-5 in my experience

[brittle sierra]

Let me check

[covert obsidian]

at least I'll be griefing only 5 games

[brittle sierra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077be66-a1c9-4623-aa8c-3ce4af979bbd/crackhead-john-wick-high-havoc-build

Looks dog

Next

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07c16c1-4370-4657-9f6b-33e714ca67c5/reginalds-melee-build

Looks fine for bonesaw so I won't be mean

NEXT

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07faec3-209f-4f93-9f05-de31958fb125/charlie-sheen

[livid raven]

Also don't use vulture dodge for this

[brittle sierra]

Dogwater wtf is this

[livid raven]

Shooters are pretty nice for this penance

[mighty belfry]

this has to be a meme

[brittle sierra]

I mean it is Charlie Sheen

[covert obsidian]

I like that one

[brittle sierra]

This build is shit because they call it "high havoc"

Dual pistols are not good for havoc, putting stamina on the shivs has to be troll

[pallid quail]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-sheen-tiger-blood-winning-charlie-sheen-tiger-blood-gif-14681621228100309121

[covert obsidian]

Oh I don't put stamina on the shivs

[brittle sierra]

Vultures push is one of the worst talents on the tree

[mighty belfry]

yeah that john wick build

like

it's actually objectively awful

[covert obsidian]

I just like me dual pistols

:D

[mighty belfry]

if we're talking havoc

[livid raven]

It's pretty old tho no?

[mighty belfry]

in auric it's just fine

[brittle sierra]

Doesn't take focused resolved even though he has no CDR stimms

💀💀💀💀💀💀

Dam this is clutch

That 20% replenish makes the difference 😤

I think I have figured out that Games Lantern builds are upvotes the same way YouTube videos get on the top of the algorithm

Having the most clickbaitable picture imaginable 💀

[mighty belfry]

that's what I'm noticing lol

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0d65a9a-b33b-4a6b-a7d7-28fee737ecd3/hyperfinesse-toxin-terror i reworked this one a little

[brittle sierra]

Make sure the image is clickbaitable

[mighty belfry]

it's runescape

dw

[unique spire]

Put this image

[frigid wyvern]

This is how I feel when doing missions in darktide as hivescum and I get a flow going and decide to fully lock in

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT2th7QjPg4/?igsh=MmwzdXlpbHM4OWo0

memehqig

Follow @memehqig
There’s a weird moment where the game stops feeling intense. You’re not locked in on purpose, you’re not hyped, you’re not even talking that much. It just feels easy. Like your hands already know what’s about to happen before you do.

That’s why this Dr. Eggman clip hits harder than it should. A character that’s u...

Likes

38712

Instagram

[dire badge]

Does the talent where if you slide it grants immunity to melee as well actually help? Outside of running away or to something

[tranquil fjord]

it can be nice for objectives

but i dont ever take it

[mighty belfry]

it sounds nice

but you rarely ever reap the benefits of it tbh

especially since it does nothing against overheads

[upbeat gyro]

So.. cleave gets counted after bromentum? Wondering if id see faster clear with +50% melee cleave for Tacaxe

Probably better off with 25% weakspot so Bromentum can do its magic on more targets better

https://preview.redd.it/whats-the-cleave-of-the-tactical-axe-v0-cknyufwrhn8g1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e56a40b8c41c4d74df746004f0ad0551e6975edb

Tempted to try having those two 50% cleave talents and see what it does to it

[low harbor]

unfortunately dt breakpoint calculator is super outdated

[low harbor]

no, because cleave distribution is a thing

[upbeat gyro]

Cleave Damage Distribution Cap (CDDC): so that is capping at 3 for Tac axe and after that its just stagger?

[low harbor]

Are u reading my guide

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah

Along with other sources

[low harbor]

Ok so what ends up happening is

After the 3rd enemy hit by that attack

Every other enemy hit by the attack take 0 damage

But they will take stagger

However

Even within 1-3 enemies

Cleave distribution still causes ur damage, finesse and stagger to fall off

And it’s not a high cleave attack in the first place, only 3

3 cleave means it won’t even cleave through a shotgunner

[upbeat gyro]

So yeah, makes sense only work towards Bromentum working hard

[low harbor]

U can try to make its cleave better but it’s still gonna be limited by CDDC

[upbeat gyro]

For clear

[low harbor]

Ye

[upbeat gyro]

Bit sad, but its good even with that

Well, just freed me up 2 talents

[low harbor]

I don’t think the “hit 3 enemies to give ur next atk +50% cleave” talent is worth it

The “+10% melee cleave per enemy killed by melee atk for 5s” is nice for most weapons tho

However it still kinda depends on what weapon ur using

[upbeat gyro]

I wonder if this could replace +3stam curio, if its effective enough in practice

[low harbor]

It’s not that great

[upbeat gyro]

And wouldnt give +6% melee speed

[low harbor]

Tbh +6% atk speed isn’t that much

It’s more so that more stamina = u can block more (and block efficiency curio perks are ass in this game) and push more

The downside is just that u reach max stam slower but no action is % based stamina cost atm

[tranquil fjord]

scum already regens p fast

[bronze glade]

i think it's a good safety net for 9 stam builds

otherwise no

[upbeat gyro]

Oh well, updated my build again, deleted cleave talents and went for +15% dmg on Dodge and 5% toughness per second from Adrenaline for bit of safety

Unarmored helps Hivescum hit some important breakpoints for tacaxe?

[low harbor]

scab bruiser

815hp unarmored head

[pseudo latch]

does chem fortified trigger on stimm supply?

[upbeat gyro]

Good to know that Q from Taxe staggers crusher on head

https://youtu.be/j_mSC6w3dMs

Wonder how solid info that is considering its MrE and before Hivescum release

[low harbor]

u can prob just skip this lol

he's not worth watching

[astral canyon]

considering the atrocity of a melee tierlist he just made its about as solid as the atmosphere

[brittle sierra]

If you mean the box then yes

[brittle sierra]

Venus atmosphere? 😈

[astral canyon]

why venus specifically

[brittle sierra]

Jupiter layer 2 atmosphere?

[astral canyon]

im not getting the joke

[brittle sierra]

In the upper atmosphere, Venus is mostly made up of liquid acid

[astral canyon]

huh

interesting

thats still not a solid though

[upbeat gyro]

According to this video i should just light attack spam all targets

[low harbor]

shud I skip arb talent sections & builds and add in other classes' weapons first

[low harbor]

no lol pls don't

[astral canyon]

having the weapon info of other classes would be pretty nice

at least for the perks, blessings and combos

[brittle sierra]

STOP WATCHING DARKTIDE YOUTUBERS PLEASE

[manic wolf]

Up to you mate, I dont run it personally, it wont mess with HV all that much, but it will mess with Slaughter

[astral canyon]

weapon info is 95% of the reason i constantly check your guide anyways

[astral canyon]

kimty

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

I'll see
maybe weapons before classes

[manic wolf]

Oh yeah nah for sure ammo aura is good, but most people build with the intent of being self-sufficient so it sees like 5% the amount of play that Pickpocket does

[sonic pumice]

everytime you follow a tier list of a YT-man an ogryn's new weapons are delayed one more ice age

[sturdy linden]

I don't know if I'd ever take advice from someone who puts Crusher at ehh tier, rates boxcutters below crowbar, or thinks ogryn's mk19 shovel is better than the mk3

[sonic pumice]

he put ogryn picks below shield and Paul

there is being wrong and then there's that