hivescum-class

[spark gyro]

strongest payday 2 dodge build

[final temple]

reload, unyielding
run n gun, stripped down

[noble kayak]

what's the distance of close range kill?

12.5 meters?

[woeful hill]

12.5

[noble kayak]

Thankies

[bronze glade]

inches

[supple torrent]

Ok now try to memorise 12.5 m in game

[noble kayak]

Use desperado haha

[vale viper]

Lol i spoke too soon

this class is kicking my ass

[supple torrent]

You're going to want to be in close range anyways. That's the fun zone

[sullen ridge]

ngl i got rid of all toughness regen i could but Just a Scratch

jittery carries

havent tried havoc yet tho

[supple torrent]

even VoT and PV?

[sullen ridge]

yessir it went to cover the 3 points from vulture to stim regen

i think vot is going to be necessary on havoc tho

[supple torrent]

Man what kinda crazy build can't afford VoT

[vale viper]

Any one have recommended builds for leveling lol

[sullen ridge]

stubs and autofire mod completely changes the game

[supple torrent]

Just try to fit these skills in and you should be fine

The aura doesnt matter

[vale viper]

Hmm okay I'll give it a try thanks :)

[spark gyro]

Having aura is more important than which aura it is

[supple torrent]

No I mean what talents do you have where you can't afford VoT?

[sullen ridge]

ohhh

[spark gyro]

get the antichrist aura

(don't)

(yet)

[supple torrent]

no prob. Afterwards you can spec into whatever tree you want. but you really want those skills if you're having issues surviving

[sullen ridge]

heres what that section looks like on my 70% crit stub build

[vale viper]

Is today how I find out that I actually suck at this game after 500hrs

[spark gyro]

499 hours of arbeetus

irreparable damage

[vale viper]

all combined LOL

[sullen ridge]

400 hours spent idling in the mourningstar while i do work

[spark gyro]

so true

[vale viper]

Real

[supple torrent]

Naah you're run something else thats weird. You should still have a ton of free points

stop hiding your dirty secrets

Show the full tree.

[sullen ridge]

mission 😔

[gilded acorn]

mostly melee auric maelstrom with desperado lol

[vale viper]

Im trying the John wick build on gamelatern lmao

though im still level 11 but this dual pistol is op

doing garbage and i'm getting >100 on scoreboard

[fast gust]

Scoreboards bad

[pallid quail]

scoreboard good

[gaunt onyx]

hell yeah (the most powerful hivescum coming to run your pockets for more pocket fent)

[bronze glade]

refined my hood psyker build

desperado and pickpocket really are stupid

[spice cloud]

Scoreboard ok doesnt bother nobody.

[limber cradle]

Scoreboard bad if it makes you think damage is the only metric that matters

Scoreboard good if you're using it to refine build

[sullen ridge]

BOLT PISTOL BOLT PISTOL BOLT PISTOl

[gaunt onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/peak-its-so-peak-praying-hands-praying-black-guy-gif-9969548697603007069

[main trellis]

Its bad

[main trellis]

I love that name

[livid raven]

it is pure ass

tho at least it was maybe a themed build and not trying to be good in the first place

oh wait it's an "high havoc" build

nvm then

[main trellis]

Cosplay builds are nice but darktide does not give rest to silly builds like that

[main trellis]

Is it really then?
Fking lmao

[livid raven]

i checked it again and it's actually like

2 talent picks off (and the gun sucks)

maybe the guy updated it

[fast gust]

Why John Wick when

[main trellis]

2 days ago

[livid raven]

yeah but it's hard to know if he only updated the text or changed talents around or what else

[upbeat crane]

fuhhh

it was right there man

[spare urchin]

I've been away from the game for a while. How is this class in the meta?

[zenith fern]

yes

[upbeat crane]

perhaps

[modest patio]

What’s wrong with it?

[upbeat crane]

it was right there

[modest patio]

?

[verbal spire]

Does Long Lasting affect Fast Acting Stimms?

[flat mist]

You in,game atm?

[verbal spire]

ye

[flat mist]

Test it...?

[fast surge]

It does not

[verbal spire]

I could yeah, but I'm just asking if it's known or not. Thanks for the replies

[flat mist]

If you're in-game and it's anywhere near as easy to test as this then it's worth doing yourself

Lots of misinformation gets about, this discord is better than average but shit slips theough

[verbal spire]

I appreciate your concerns, but I decided to ask here instead of testing it myself.

[flat mist]

Tis a pity

[jaunty sail]

my god

heavy sword fucks

[tired prairie]

Very unlikely that it does.

[candid pulsar]

What's a good setup for dual-stub pistols? the semi-automatic ones.

[muted pivot]

Meta or not, it's winning on the fun front imo

This feels so much better for me than Arbitrator, even if it's harder to win with

Although tbh I'm way better at scum than I am at arby anyway

[rough peak]

Mag capacity rounding up is nice, it makes it not useless on low mag guns

[exotic temple]

https://youtu.be/aHq-7_LUIVM?si=B-gUDI9AplMz9kt7

[keen timber]

scoreboard optimal if you use it to exactly flame ur psyker for dying excactly 5 times

[rough peak]

The big things I like looking at from the scoreboard are how many disabler kills I got and how much damage I took

That and monster damage, sometimes

Damage doesn't really matter if you die... you can't do more damage if you die

until rescued

While dealing damage is important, surviving means you can't wipe >.>

[dim moth]

problem we wiped because everybody was focusing on surviving so priority enemies didn't die

[rough peak]

You focus on both lol

[astral canyon]

Sounds like a skill issue

[rough peak]

Part of focusing on survival is killing priority targets. <.<'

Another potential person who could learn the game past the surface level

<.<'

[tranquil turret]

it does

I've done it, the stim supply only last for 5s but the actual stim effect duration when you touch the supply is 20s

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/llG32AhZr5Z.gif

[rough peak]

I can check this rq, tbh, in the meat grinder

[tranquil turret]

Go check it. I even have the countdown timer mod etc

just can't post photo

[rough peak]

nope, same duration from what I can tell

You can tell just by the duration of the effect compared to the stim cd

[final temple]

You might want to reread what fast acting stimms does.

[willow violet]

is the +3 stam curio at 400 still buggeD?

[final temple]

yes

[rough peak]

Yep

[astral canyon]

Ye

[tranquil turret]

This is what I got, unless the timer mod is going funky it adds up to 18-20s
https://youtu.be/LeO-Zh7Es5o

[final temple]

you drop the case at 3s. it expires at 18s. that’s 15s my friend.

[tranquil turret]

good point, the timer mod must be going funky then D:

[lapis raft]

if you are looking at cd in the timer mod it goes faster with cd regen rate

while displaying normal number

[dire badge]

Hello fellow scum of the hive, I have a quesiton. I bring rampage (all rampoage tlaents) and have carpace on my shives. But I fele like Havoc cruhsersj ust tnak so many hits and when there's a gorup I can't deal with it becaususe of the mix of attacks and overheads. And I cna't kill em in time. Any tips?

[tranquil turret]

I don't have any CD regen on that pack though?

[final temple]

what is this? a mod being misleading instead of being helpful? I am shook, good sir. shook!

[lapis raft]

its rly useless way to display information but thats what game gives you so mods usually use that

[lapis raft]

you have 3 chem dep stacks, and chem dep is cd regen rate

e.g sped up timer

[tranquil turret]

I see

[final temple]

use the thrown shivs, 2 per crusher.

that cooks them quickly for you to the kill them in 2-3 heavies

[dire badge]

ah ogod tip I forget baout that

[final temple]

if you struggle with crusher spam, bring the boomstick

[willow violet]

like

FS dont feel a bit emberassed about stuff like +3 curio being still bugged 4 years post release?

[livid raven]

nah fastshark has never known shame

[dire badge]

and coated wepaonry and toxin mania, is that good on hsivs? more so than quick and deadly and hyper critcal?

[dire badge]

wait the stmainone? wantsb ugged withi t

[willow violet]

if its 400 the display says +3 but it rounds down to 2

[dire badge]

oof

[willow violet]

big oof

especially since stam curio is where it actually matters wether u have 3 or 2 cuz thats an 50% increase

16 or 17% toughness wont really matter

[exotic temple]

I don’t think cw and tm beat q&d and hyper critical

[lapis raft]

UI being completely disconnected from reality is i think just normal for them :d

[exotic temple]

Especially since hc paths to pick pocket

[lapis raft]

coated is rly good for keeping up toxin stacks on stuff as you refresh all of them so you can 30 stack very easily with just shiv specials and coated

its less useful when you have infinite needler ammo but its still good

and even with needler it just allows you to not bother swapping to needler after first application when fighting bosses

[dire badge]

yeah these are my choices rn for it

[dire badge]

like 400 exactly or above 400? do i need to find a _3 under 400?

[willow violet]

above

410 or 420

[rough peak]

410+ for a 3 stamina

[dire badge]

fuck so i need a +3 stmainda but it has to be 400 or below for it to give +3

[lapis raft]

the opposite

[rough peak]

[dire badge]

Ohhhh

okay than im good

[rough peak]

I have yet to get a max stat curio offered to me on my hive scum(aside from wound curios, but, who tf wants wound curios on the hive scum?)

my arby got max curio after max curio offered, so this isn't surprising

[dire badge]

i got a +3 stam that works apparently and +17 toughness. Still hunting for htesecond 17 toughness

[rough peak]

I"m stuck coping with 3 16% toughness curios x.x

[dire badge]

F

als ou think 2 stmaina on daggers is more worth ythan unyielding?

[rough peak]

No

[dire badge]

gotcha gotcha

[rough peak]

25% damage to an armor type is almost always the right option(depending on which armor type that is)

ironically I've never really felt the need for a stamina curio on hive scum, even with rampage... the regen rate and delay is just so cracked as it is

and up to 6% attack speed just doesn't beat up to 22% more toughness >.>'

[lapis raft]

well with rampage you want the stam curio less not more

[willow vine]

Everyone died and fucking left while I was clutching alone and I ressed all the bots and nobody joined for 10 minutes and I lost at the end

On auric high trooper

[tranquil turret]

no faith

oof

[willow vine]

Misery

[willow violet]

if they altf4 and not leave the slot will be retained for a few minutes

[final temple]

no. coated weaponry is a bad value proposition compared to the alternatives (1 stack per crit doesn’t do much, even if you continuously crit. the buildup is too slow to matter on anything but bosses) and toxin mania is never really going to shine because it relies on a .2s interval check for the presence of toxed up targets, meaning it’s counterintuitive to what you want, which is make stuff gone faster. Q&D is debatable but hypercritical sees immediately more use on shivs.

plus you path into pickpocket from hC without any tax on shiv. tithe agents hate this one trick.

[rough peak]

Meanwhile, past zealot? You want twbs? taxed. You want fire/stun nades? taxed. You want anything besides " The Build™ "? taxed

[final temple]

those were the days. The Build.

[rough peak]

I still remember before talent trees... the holy rev and twbs debates

back when holy rev gave up to your entire hp bar back

[final temple]

I never played anything but psyker before the talent trees were introduced. lol.

[rough peak]

I played all of the classes, back then

I think I played vet and oggy the least, tho

[dire badge]

I was a zealot main back in the day, maybe thats why I like hivescum so much. zealot on steorids

[rough peak]

I still remember one of my 1st solo clutches on psyker on a malice game where one of the 2 rando zealots that died said something like "bro this psyker"

I don't miss that version of the surge staff, tho

[final temple]

these days I think they should toss out talent trees for vermintide style perk selection. at least that way we don’t end up with people queueing for havoc without an ability or keystone chosen lol

[rough peak]

[dire badge]

I rly love this talent tree though so many builds to make of it

[rough peak]

the versatility of the talent tree is nice, the immense power we get from them tho is annoying

[dire badge]

morep layerfreeodm theb etter

[rough peak]

we get so much power that the enemy spam AND the other modifiers in havoc are required so we don't just melt everything

I like the freedom of builds, tho

in vt2 you get like... at best 1 or 2 options that are good

[wispy viper]

coming back to darktide hows melee scum

[rough peak]

Yes

[wispy viper]

i was a filthy stealth knife zealot enjoyer

and then a charge knife zealot enjoer

[rough peak]

It's powerful, but, just not as powerful as the desperado bullshit that lets you ignore even more game mechanics

[wispy viper]

yeah that looks fun too

[rough peak]

being able to hit f to ignore half the game's mechanics is stupid lol

[final temple]

may I introduce you to fatmangus, turning the concept of ‘avoiding damage’ into a mere suggestion? xD

[rough peak]

the old holy rev in a nutshell:

[final temple]

nah. this is more stupid. facetanking everything passively and making the arby jealous while being able to do stupid damage. that build revived my faith in the benificent emperor xD

[rough peak]

The emperor protects

[rough peak]

This is a zealot thing right?

If so my guess is it has enemies within enemies without

[final temple]

yep. zealot. https://youtu.be/82EpvAqXth0?si=Pd6pTrAHQzpBykGT

[rough peak]

the classic baby ogryn build

playing hive scum is making me want to play slayer cause of how fast the gameplay is >.>

I love slayer so much in vt2

being able to get 25% as my base crit in the chaos wastes is funny to me

[sonic pumice]

"Kazak Gotikaf!" Intensifies

[rough peak]

I still remember the time I got crit lightning on an orange melee weapon, which let me have a default 50% crit chance lol

[vale viper]

Don't make me consult you again 👁️

[willow violet]

stimm supply builds sacrifice personal power for team basically?

[sonic pumice]

Share your wisdom, I know pistols and their twirling are meh at best but is the build really garbo?

[willow violet]

chemical dependency talents only activate on personal stim use or box too?

[sonic pumice]

Both, and since you can inject yourself and then box you can build chem dependency fast

[austere coyote]

gameslantern builds are just slop cranked out for SEO by someone who barely plays

so in general talents are fucked and they near universally use bad blessings

[sonic pumice]

Sure, counter argument: there is little to no alternative nor way to tell which have background worth considering

Even here there isn't much exposition of what is the best, most of the time we can point out what's underperforming, which isn't that helpful for someone bad at building perk trees

[brittle sierra]

Wait there is a "John Wick" build?

[lilac ermine]

Yes

[sonic pumice]

Apparently, it has John Wich as it's image and is highly voted in gameslantern, using the dual stub pistols, which is not considered as good sadly

[vale viper]

I want to agree but who are the ones upvoting it then lmao

[lilac ermine]

I mean ppl can just make 50 accounts to like it

Themselves

[sonic pumice]

Everyone dooming on it when what I want is "it's bad because X and Y facts that should be W and F instead"

[zealous ravine]

its spreading

[lilac ermine]

Is that with havoc scaling

284 health

[zealous ravine]

the 2nd zealot build ever

[sonic pumice]

I have tried it and I swear Im taking more damage than with martyrdom build

[rough peak]

sigh there's nothing I hate more than +specials in any tide game :\

[vale viper]

@main trellis will set us straight lmaooo

[zealous ravine]

lmao

[lilac ermine]

Havoc has 35% less health past 26 havoc lvl and -45 less toughness past 33 havoc lvl

[rough peak]

Yep

a true baby ogryn zealot build

[dire badge]

try playing on 20hp most of the game only to be jumped by a immobile barrel explosion

[final temple]

the video demonstrates h40. fatmangus has 234 health here

[final temple]

public builds on that website are highly unreliable in their upvote count as these don't factor in changes

[vale viper]

Post one that's good then pls ♥️

[lilac ermine]

Oh okie I only can see thumbnail I cant watch vid here

[dire badge]

what kidna build u looking for

[lilac ermine]

If arbites can be immune to dog and mutants can they make hive scum immune to trappers

Trappers and dogs at least

[dire badge]

with how many stims they take i wouldnt be surprsied if their bones are malliable enough to slip through then et mmhmm hmmmh

[eager reef]

Make enemies take damage when near us while stimmed

The oder from a fent maxing deals damage

[vale viper]

Literally anything rn since im just leveling

though I do enjoy the shivs

watched a bunch of youtube builds....wasnt very inspiring

[lilac ermine]

Desperado or rampage?

[vale viper]

i'll try both :^)

[dire badge]

if its just levling any build on the site works

[vale viper]

LOL

after everyone just said 'this build is shit!!!"

[dire badge]

a build only matters hwen your're maxl evel and wnat to do anything on damnation or harder

[bronze glade]

Nothing special, I’m just hivescum

[vast yoke]

double barrel stim crate build with reload speed stim kinda banging holy shit

[vast yoke]

tbh half of the builds for hivescum were literally made before the class came out

because gameslantern had the tools for making builds for scum a few days early

and yes the john wick one is one of them

altho it is updated

[exotic temple]

A lot of people try to look at it through the lense of is this havoc 40 viable.

[vast yoke]

gameslantern does need a "for havoc" filter tbh. you can only set a build up to auric which.. is sort of the baseline

[final temple]

I disagree. Understanding what talents do and how the class is meant to maintain itself is just as much basic game knowledge as how to dodge and how to manage stamina. you won't have a build come together before lvl 30, but that doesn't change that this is as much valuable game knowledge.

plus scum's stimm lab is relevant from lvl 1, so you leave power on the table if you dont bother

[dire badge]

im not saying the knowledge isnt valuable but the build itself doesn't work. I find that you only learn what builds actually do is when you're struggling on content

[vast yoke]

i mean its sort of a slippery slope where people will run "whatever" until auric, then they'll keep running whatever until havoc, and then you'll end up with your random havoc zealots using Crit Damage and Weakspot Damage on their Eviscerator

but like yeah dont stress too much

[final temple]

sure, you need an actual challenge to see how a build performs. but there are mechanical interactions that are not depending on this and are what dictates how you would want to play a build in the first place

[vast yoke]

the game is very obtuse with a lot of its weird mechanics

[dire badge]

i mean frankly outside of asking for builds here I only started learning what does what when I was 20 havocs. But I wasp laying good. I just wnatedm ore understanding to push that wall of avoc 20s

[vale viper]

youre not wrong but most people who play games just want a copy and paste thing to have fun for an hour or so a day 😭

[final temple]

totally fair.

[vast yoke]

yeah thats like 90% of my friends

i gotta keep calling my friend bren a fatty fat no future no girlfriend loser everytime i see him put crit damage on a weapon

its morally obligatory

[sonic pumice]

Legit some just want something that it's not self sabotaging that can be used to play and have fun

[final temple]

but even in these cases, you have to spend like 5 minutes to understand what the build wants you to do. ideally by reading the build description

[sonic pumice]

We can bully that one friend but tbh it's all ObeseFish fault for hiding all the information that those perks are garbo

[vale viper]

I'm willing to learn of course, thats why i bought the DLC knowing it's a steeper learning curve

[vale viper]

ya for sure

[vast yoke]

no literally. crit damage sucked since vt2 (i imagine it was prob in vt1 too idk)

[kind mist]

Blessed vt1 did not have critical.

Only instakill chance

[slender fiber]

Maybe one day they'll make crit damage useful. Feels like it'd be bis on Scum and Zealot.

[tired prairie]

The closest VT1 had to Crits was just on-hit chance-based effects, like Earthing Rune, KB or Regrowth

[slender fiber]

Sounds kinda cool tbh. I've always loved crits that are more than just "big hit." I think that's why I've been turned on to knife zealot lately. Flesh Tearer + Scourge and your crits also mean huge bleed stacks.

(Only ever played VT2 so crits being their typical selves is what I'm used to)

[vast yoke]

if it was strength instead of damage it'd be very decent tbh

or is it power in this game i always forget

[slender fiber]

Like, 10% additional strength on crits? Yeah, that actually sounds like it'd be cool.

Cause then that'd mean your crits would also have a bit more cleave and stagger.

[vast yoke]

they'd need to prob nerf it a bit since 10% weakspot strength is actually insane

I mean Arbis best talent is 12% weakspot strength lmao

nvm 16%

[slender fiber]

Ahhhhhh, yes! I love running that with Combat Axe.

[bronze glade]

tbf weakspot strength is very different from crit damage

despite sounding similar

[slender fiber]

Collecting skulls for the skull throne golden throne.

[vast yoke]

i mean we dont rlly have crit strength but thats what we were talking abt

is there anything that gives crit strength?

[bronze glade]

isn't crit strength essentially finesse

[vast yoke]

what even is finesse, since finesse damage is so arbitrary

[slender fiber]

Further damage on critical hits and weakspot hits iirc.

Also for some weapons it increases their attack speed.

[vast yoke]

well thats the finesse stat yeah

[bronze glade]

yeah the weapon stat is different

[bronze glade]

yup this

[vast yoke]

just to add to the confusion XD

[bronze glade]

it's just the multiplier applied on crit and/or weakspot hit

[vast yoke]

meanwhile desperado is a blessing, an ability and a skill for 3 different things

great naming convention

[bronze glade]

too many things in the game, they're running out of cool-sounding lore-appropriate names

[slender fiber]

Tbh just rename the Desperado ult to Gunslinger.

[vast yoke]

wdym, enchanced desperado is such a normal sounding string of words

[slender fiber]

Same thing

[vast yoke]

gunslinger aura says hi

😭

[slender fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/falling-drunk-shocked-surprised-gif-15546336

[vast yoke]

which imo shouldnt even be called that

it should be smth like "gang's tithe" since you're taking a portion of someones ammo pack (thematically, ofc not mechanically)

[slender fiber]

Scavenger would also work

[vast yoke]

:-)

yeah wouldn't that be nice

[slender fiber]

A certain dwarf in the Old World has an ability that's basically that

[vast yoke]

idk if you're joking or not but non augmented survialist IS scavenger 😭

[slender fiber]

Yeah, I was just talking the name, since Bardin's is called Scavenger I think

[vast yoke]

i think yeah

[slender fiber]

Idk haven't played VT seriously in about a year

[vast yoke]

his career passive

[slender fiber]

Good god (emperor) though

3 things in the game all with Desperado in the name

Feels like the War of the Beast novels all over again with recurring names on different characters

[vast yoke]

in fatsharks defense its a cool word

i get it

[rough peak]

It's the nerfed version of my 30% ammo pack per special killed

[vast yoke]

yeah that shit was absurd tbh

i still kinda miss when it rounded up tho

rumbler ogryn was absurd

i mean it still is but yk what i mean

[rough peak]

To be fair the masterwork pistol needed the 30% ammo per special killed

otherwise you always ran out of ammo

[vast yoke]

oh yeah i forgot u meant that games

i thought you meant prenerf survivalist lmao

[rough peak]

Uh, the vet version wasn't 30% per special killed

it just had no cooldown

tbh it kinda needed the nerf to even make the other auras seem like they were worth taking

[slender fiber]

Pre-nerf Survivalist was so much fun to play with as a gun ogryn or flamethrower zealot

Flamethrower zealot kills a whole pack of ragers and basically refunds half the ammo she spent

[rough peak]

Remember the pre ammo nerf flamer?

Having like almost double the ammo lol

[slender fiber]

It did? I remember not playing the game for a while after it came out so I must've missed that.

Pls bring it back

[rough peak]

It had too much ammo

You didn't have to use it well to not run out of ammo

I do miss being able to spray and pray more, tho, with it

[slender fiber]

How is it nowadays? I use it sometimes but more as a meme. I do recall flamer zealot actually being super popular during launch.

[rough peak]

Low difficulties? Mid, at best. High end difficulties? God-tier

[bronze glade]

yeah the more enemies, the more flamer fucks

[slender fiber]

Ah, so like flame psyker.

[rough peak]

It turns out... having infinite cleave on a weapon that applies a dot that can kill everything but crushers is... really good

who would have thunked...

[slender fiber]

Good to know

Gonna see if I can take that into Mortis Trials and get the no ammo on crits buff

Make Vulkan proud

[rough peak]

Well... if it works like charmed reload did then you can spray until you run out of ammo probably

with the ammo pulled from the reserves on crits blessing

[slender fiber]

It doesn't but being able to fire longer is still good

Then Blaze Away and Overpressure and have a Beast of Nurgle cookout

[low harbor]

there currently doesn't exist crit strength

[rough peak]

Just don't stop shooting, smh my head

Works the same on zealot

Anyway, off to work I go

o7

[dire badge]

without any chem talents what do you ugys think of the RPG vs chem grenade?

[verbal dew]

they do different stuff tho

[bronze glade]

both are good in their own ways

well actually all HIV blitzes are good

[verbal dew]

blackout with added toxin is handy

[zenith fern]

All scum blitzes are great

Blinders for life

[nova valley]

RPG + added toxin. For mad flavour

[dire badge]

I mean I feel like chem grenade just desomates in the smae way rpg does. But has an aoe lasting longer able to getm ore neemies. Its justn ot instnatl ike rpg

[bronze glade]

Well rpg is more “this bulwark and crusher wall needs to die NOW”

Chem nades kills crushers but it takes time

[nova valley]

Also, RPG is an actual explosion. I.e. way cooler

[final temple]

boomstick clears carapace spam. chem grenade is a juiced up immo grenade against hordes

[zenith fern]

Literally less 10 mins into the mission

[brittle sierra]

RPG is also much better into bosses

[exotic temple]

I basically take boom bringer on my desp builds. If I have needle gun I take chem grenades

[charred bronze]

question: which targets does Can-Opener brittleness from the crowbar not work against?

[mental igloo]

Unarmoured and infested

[astral canyon]

Its brittleness

Theres nothing special about it

It works the same as any other source

[charred bronze]

can you apply it to monstrosities and captains?

[upbeat gyro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooMbHUXXHys

Uses Hivescum with shivs as example, hence here

I hope he aint another youtuber that gets people going heated here 😅

"you cant watch that, it makes you nazi!"

[verbal dew]

brittleness is always going to be inferior when buffing your own rending is just simpler

[mental igloo]

Brittle and rending work against everything except what I mentioned, monsters are unyielding and captains are flak/carapace (idr which) so yeah it works on em

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a08a5433-ea69-446a-8297-983ec4f6a3ca/get-jinxed Is this solid?

Mk3 Shivs and Bolt Pistol

[charred bronze]

Rip's video was cool, I learned some stuff I didn't know.

That said, this remark of yours? It sucks.
Supporting creators who explicitly support shitty ideologies gives them and their shitty ideology more reach. It's not people being precious for no reason.

Look around, dude. Look at what's happening in the world. It's not a joke.

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah im sure watching Tanner video without knowing about his ideologies will cause the rise of Fourth Reich soon

[verbal dew]

it's all negligible, it's just darktide youtubers

[dire badge]

yeah who gives as hit what he thinks, his videos are good information on darktide

[upbeat gyro]

Depends if youre in your late teens or early twenties and out there to save the world or not

[charred bronze]

I'm 48

[final temple]

people said that about rogan. Rogan’s podcast had a measurable impact. Does Tanner have it? No. The principle stands, when there are alternatives.

[charred bronze]

asshole

[verbal dew]

idk about good info tho

it's a lot of opinions

[main trellis]

could be better slightly
main thing is using despy with pistols - a sidearm (reliable tbh but still a sidearm)
however the guy says that those can be changed so atleats that is good

[charred bronze]

all the creators start small. And most get their foothold in one game.

[final temple]

plus tanner has a track record of questionable claims.

[upbeat gyro]

Usually people get less touchy about those matters as they grow, not everyone, and im not saying its bad, some people get kicks out of such mentality and good for you

[main trellis]

i'm open

[upbeat gyro]

Personally i dont care that much

[charred bronze]

Is Tanner gonna become the next asmongold? Probably not. Does he deserve your YouTube dollarios? Absolutely not.

[dire badge]

yeah comes down to personal opinin,m there's no objectively right answer here. if you care so uch dont watch his viddeos, if you dont jsut watch it for thei nfo

[upbeat gyro]

I made the statement just because random youtube is like Pandora's box or can of worms here

And all i did was LITERALLY ask for advise if that build is solid, not what is your political or ideological preference or whatever

But yeah, i get it that there has been lot more going on here than i know or care to really know about

[charred bronze]

No, you said 'I suuuure hope this guy doesn't get your panties in a bunch cuz he's a nazi or whatever lolz???'

that's what I was responding to

[brittle sierra]

Ngl my dude you sound like an op 💀

[upbeat gyro]

Im here for the game, aint got no time for the drama

[main trellis]

Wise Mystical Old Man

[charred bronze]

then why did you bring it up?

[final temple]

then please don’t bring drama. could’ve just stfu about it

[brittle sierra]

No u c

Um I need to endlessly consume content and never question my own actions

[upbeat gyro]

Lasttime i posted youtube link i got called all sorts of personal insults for good half an hour

[brittle sierra]

What did they say?

And please link the message they said it 😈

[final temple]

great. Now people curse you and your family cow. that worked out just fine!

[dire badge]

just post what you want to if its rleated to darktide tbh but yeah bring up how ppl overeact ot it is like putting bait into a lake

[charred bronze]

amazing that the lesson learned from that wasn't to check to your sources, and instead to make a snide comment alongside the video instead

[upbeat gyro]

Its like 3-4 days ago, didnt take logs or anything

[main trellis]

not just him; many darktide content creators when they make builds do miss a couple of points but you know; its good to watch them & compare & maybe even contact and discuss how the builds could be better

[brittle sierra]

Because I remember being there

[upbeat gyro]

I was doing the source check here since you people are so opinionated on youtubers if they are allowed here or not

[brittle sierra]

Tanner is both wrong in and out of context was what I got from the end of that discussion

[upbeat gyro]

Im no way defending Tanner nor do i care, its just that i was being suddenly associated with him to ridiculous degree just for asking if his build in video was good or not

[final temple]

generally I agree. but both tanner and his community are hard to engage with frankly, the edgy hyperboles are not conducive to constructive discourse

[sonic pumice]

Idk papa, I feel those pistols are not sidearm material, it's reload/ttkill doesn't feel good (but I guess I got spoiled by Bistol)

[main trellis]

thankfully i'm edgy too; can blend in nicely

[upbeat gyro]

Anyways, is the build i linked good to run?

[brittle sierra]

I think you do care, because you seem to be projecting our criticism towards him into us "personal insults"

I think...

You don't like being wrong about someone you thought was credible

[final temple]

there are some… curious choices. like no punching above and choosing coated weaponry over pickpocket.

[main trellis]

reload is oof but can be manageable; dmg tho is acceptable, pull & ready spd are great and if you combine run&gun with sticky hands you are very accurate

[exotic temple]

I would just run it and not take care what others think

[upbeat gyro]

You are actually projecting now yourself and not quite recalling the convo. There was one guy (not you) who made it very personal and aggressive

[main trellis]

i'm yet to contact him about that build; it can be better

[brittle sierra]

Does that person represent us as a whole?

Or the entire Tanner discussion?

[sonic pumice]

Yeah, but it feels that crit benefits it a fair bit, it's so close to something great but is not there (also the fact that vraks IAG exist to make almost everything irrelevant)

[upbeat gyro]

Reason i ask is that im very much a noob on hivescum still, few missions left to hit lvl 30 still so im lost with the talent tree and there are often hidden info ingame GUI doesnt really tell you how they work

[main trellis]

i don't use pickpocket either; not on a melee build - its too op

[sonic pumice]

To this day I'm wondering why something like THAT isn't a keystone, to op to be loose like that

[upbeat gyro]

No, and true i did make my beginning of this convo in bit too confrontational way, just to avoid again such shitstorm, instead borderline caused another

[main trellis]

tbh; the great 4 of rapid firing weapons scum can use have their upsides & downsides & they do not opt each other out

[main trellis]

even as keystone it would be bad; should be desperado subnode

[exotic temple]

While that’s understandable sometimes it’s good just to get in and get your own experience

[main trellis]

that will fix needle spam on any build which is the main reason that talent is op (infinite ammo on a weapon that destroys every enemy)

[upbeat gyro]

Ive been running Vraks IAG just because i had it lvl 20 from other classes to begin with and heard its perhaps the top choice

[brittle sierra]

So why say: "every time I talk about X"?

Tanner is a nobody, a narcissist, and doesn't understand the game to a fundamental level. We explained why, and now you take that and complain about this server being "political" 💀

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah i agree. I just have more time to chat here than actually play 🤷‍♂️

[zenith fern]

Idk about you lot but if theres a content creator that is openly racist, targets the devs and CMs, spreads missinformation to be part of the content creator program and always starts dramas I dont think is worth any watch

shrimple as that

[exotic temple]

Right and research is good but farming it out to masses is suicidal to your mental health. Best just find some solid resources you trust

[upbeat gyro]

The quality i care about personally if its right and solid for the game, the rest, well not my drama, so i was mainly asking that about Ripthejack3r

Ive gotten the impression Tanner has so edgy way of giving his takes on everything in absolutes that he at times sort of drives himself in corner with that elitistic attitude when it comes to presenting solid ingame info

[exotic temple]

My understanding is Tanner is an autistic kid raised on online games so he doesn’t understand how to talk like a normal rational human being

[main trellis]

Rippy is a nice lad but his builds need refinement usually; hes for making unique builds and 'shaking' the stale bread that meta is which i like about him

[main trellis]

i'm like that too; don't insult my lil feelings...

[brittle sierra]

autism pipeline:

Wholesome D&D circles with friends that care and support you

or

4CHAN

[main trellis]

[odd brook]

True lmfao

[zenith fern]

[charred bronze]

It's all good. In the future, maybe it's better not to treat the people who reject shitty (or outright evil) ideas as the problem in the situation, even if that makes things inconvenient sometimes. I don't think it's crazy to be mindful about who and what we choose to support, even in a small community like this. The ripples spread, and the 40k fandom especially has some gross corners.

I don't think Rip has a high enough public profile, and doesn't seem to be making politics part of his online identity, to his credit. That video was cool.

agree with pathos' assessment of the talent choices fwiw

[upbeat gyro]

Fair enough, ill go try the build now, with the added suggestions 👍

Is Slippery Customer as good as it sounds? Im in habit of constantly sliding

[odd brook]

Opinionated, but yes AND no

Doesn't save you from overheads, negate the talent entirely with pushes/spacing

[charred bronze]

I'm one of the people that likes it, but it's the first talent to go if I need something else. It's most useful for moving cannisters around for objectives tbh. It has windows of vulnerability that are too large to make it a must-pick

and yeah, it doesn't save you from overheads

[exotic temple]

I like it because it’s pretty easy to slide around especially on desp build

[upbeat gyro]

Ok, overheads coming through is a bummer

Overheads are counted differently for being slightly AOE?

[vale viper]

Playing uprising difficulty is actually harder than Auric with all the new players wow

[charred bronze]

yeah, they're straight up an aoe effect

[odd brook]

Overheads yeah you can think of them as tiny aoe nuke

[brittle sierra]

we have new players?

[vale viper]

the past x number of games they were all new players

highlight the DH and they run towards it 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[verbal dew]

you can only really deal with overheads with certain block talents or ogryn shield

[upbeat gyro]

So one crusher overhead can potentially down several guys at once? Brutal

[verbal dew]

yes

[woeful hill]

Friend has a clip

[zenith fern]

yes if the aeo hits

[woeful hill]

1 crusher killed 3 people and triggered until death on the 4th

[zenith fern]

Crusher overhead has small aeo but shit can be funny if hit multiple players

[verbal dew]

you just need to get in to the habit of side dodging them

[odd brook]

Dclaw parry also eats em

[zenith fern]

Or when the overhead hits another player as the targetted player dodges

[odd brook]

Getting kicked from h40 lobby any%

[upbeat gyro]

Best way to learn

[vale viper]

trigger DH, dies, another DH spawns, i highlight it again, they run towards it again

idk if learning happened in that instance

[odd brook]

Maybe they just really want the banisher achievement

[final temple]

did you mark it as enemy or the ‘look, death!’ ?

[vale viper]

I just did the normal tag

To be fair I'm not going out of my way to teach a new player LOL

just found it funny

[final temple]

sure. so context sensitive. means they were in a killing frenzy xD

[vale viper]

the yellow eye

[leaden fable]

I joined an A12 auric maelstrom, two bots and a dead guy on my team. I kill a BoN and two cspawns solo with shiv melee, rescue the one player and he's afk. Comes back after a bit and I get netted in another room right next to him. Instead of un netting me he asks the dh for help

[vale viper]

yes yes

[verbal dew]

just have the game tag them for you :^) https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1q5lbyj/when_execution_order_highlights_a_demonhost/

[willow violet]

the box gives the stim effect for allies too or just hte corruption thingy?

[dire badge]

stim affect

[willow violet]

so with box build u want high viscosity stims for maximum effects right?

[woeful hill]

If the crate consumes your custom stim (if it's not on cooldown) the stim effect is applies to the crate as well as the corruption part

[verbal dew]

you don't really need cdr on crate if you run the talent that makes the crate ready when stim is

because base crate isn't doing much outside of high corruption missions on like havoc and stuff

[willow violet]

hmmm

is it worth going crate+normal stims?

aoe heal/read/yellow pack sounds nice

[verbal dew]

I wouldn't

better to control it yourself

[zenith fern]

you would have to find one first

[verbal dew]

unless you're running pox gas missions

and get surplus of green stims

[willow violet]

i just feel like this is so f*cking stupid again

why do u need a tax node to make the effect lingering

[verbal dew]

yeah not a fan of it, but the game has a lot of "stand under x" abilities

[willow violet]

like they srsly cant expect u stand in that 2x2 box aoe

for 20 seconds

as 4 peeps

[verbal dew]

on havoc you prob can

I don't like the shortened deploy duration tho

because it's hard to get everyone to get the effects

[willow violet]

me neither but u can just run ahead drop it and have peeps walk through it

[verbal dew]

yeah but you only have 5s

[willow violet]

needle pistol interacts with crit btw?

[verbal dew]

it gives more stacks on crits

otherwise not really

[willow violet]

so its like purga staff

?

[bronze glade]

Only in that sense

[verbal dew]

yeah the toxin dots are really secluded from most interactions

[rancid coral]

Literally every combat ability has a subnode that is a must take

[willow violet]

and i hate them all

[rancid coral]

Most even have 2 xdd

[verbal dew]

exec or castigator's stance can get away with none

[willow violet]

whats the point of hte chem dependency cdr?

is there any specific build which uses it?

[verbal dew]

it's good on most builds

[woeful hill]

It's free cdr

[verbal dew]

it's prob least useful on stim crate tho in terms of cdr

but you get it for the other nodes

it's easy crit chance and reliable TDR

[willow violet]

im just running hyper crit and hyper aggressive xD

[verbal dew]

don't run both at the same time

they cannibalize each other, hyper violence is usually the one to go with

[bronze glade]

Nah it’s actually fine to run both

The anti synergy isn’t particularly significant

[verbal dew]

ok, that's just what I've seen everyone parrot here so

[willow violet]

crit is good vs chaff

aggressiv is good vs elite

idk why would they have anti syng

[bronze glade]

#hivescum-class message

[verbal dew]

im not doubting you, just what was said for a long time here

[brittle sierra]

You need sampler collector for the crate to work

[dire badge]

what theh ell you on about boy that was 4 days ago

[bronze glade]

I’ve separately tested both on shivs and the anti synergy doesn’t really matter

You need hypercrit for human sized elites

And hyperv for hordes

And having both doesn’t really hurt

[dire badge]

also u dont need that for the crate, tis up as soon as the 1 point stim is

[brittle sierra]

No like from a practical standpoint

Also the toxin on crit and damage increase on toxin nearby is some of the 2 worst nodes in the entire tree

When I ran uptime, the average amount of stacks from the toxin buff was 1 💀

And the uptime in total was 30%

[verbal dew]

I mean the first depends on how many hits and how much you crit tho

[sterile depot]

Anyone got a link to the most vanilla crate build? Weapons? Stimm lab?

[brittle sierra]

1 toxin per crit, even on shivs is pretty horrible

the only time I would run those 2 nodes is for bonesaw

[odd brook]

Hypercrit extends downtime on hyper violence, hyperv ramps up fast in hordes whereas hypercrit always available

[brittle sierra]

we already tested this

using both outside of rampage is better

[brittle sierra]

cmon put some chocolate chips in there

[odd brook]

Who's "we"

[brittle sierra]

#hivescum-class message

[sterile depot]

Figured I'd start with the basics and work my way from there. Shivs? Chem dep? 75s stimms? I'm lost in flavors

[brittle sierra]

if you want to abuse the cdr bug on the crate: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[sterile depot]

Uh prefer to learn to play the way it's gonna be whenever bugs get fixed but this is a start

Figured it'd more nodes on chem dep though

[brittle sierra]

wait I made a booboo on the build

ok now it should be updated

[odd brook]

Theres a lot going on here that makes this not good general advice

[brittle sierra]

then it is just melee scum but with the crate instead of rampage

[odd brook]

Shiv/knife/chem dependency (this pushes you into near consistent crits) and hyperc is gonna eat hyperv

[sterile depot]

So adrenaline? Sounds cool. Still 75s stim then?

[brittle sierra]

yes because I take sampler

[odd brook]

You can reach near 100% with shiv/knife too, where they massacre with violence and taking both hurts significantly your ttk vs all situations

[brittle sierra]

HC doesn't reset the damage of HV, so there is no drawback to running both

it just doesn't stack

[odd brook]

HC deals 0 overkill, it means it kills when instead you could be setting up a huge hv

[brittle sierra]

that's only consistent when you are mowing down hordes, which doesn't contradict HC being used to one shot elites

[odd brook]

You'd also have to be attacking more than 1/sec which while possible is adding mental stack in-game when you could be getting a lot more consistency and overall better dps

Hv will also just one shot the elite with a heavy

[limber cradle]

I feel like HC/HV is going to be scums eternal debate

[brittle sierra]

this is why the test is only one elites, because it is the only group of enemies that matter when talking about the overkill damage of HV

[odd brook]

You stack on hordes and spend on elite

This is how missions also actually play out

[brittle sierra]

and if you don't have hordes to stack onto?

[odd brook]

Then it's not dangerous/high diff enough that you need to min max lol

[brittle sierra]

HC also can prevent HV from resetting by one shotting things

[odd brook]

My exact point

[brittle sierra]

yeah and thats a good thing

if I oneshot something with HC, I can use the damage of HV the next attack that wont oneshot them

[odd brook]

Hv won't have damage stored by that point it's a 1 sec buff

[brittle sierra]

how do you know? what if im fighting a mixed horde and use the HV proc already?

this is the problem with trying to test it with hordes, it isn't a contorl test

[odd brook]

If it's mixed then you definitely want just the hv and everything will mulch

[brittle sierra]

HC + HV = more consistency versus just HV

HV stacks faster the more damage buffs you have, which makes it good on its own when you have rampage up

[odd brook]

Melee build hv, HC is a throwaway point for knife/shiv ranged build to randomly one shot a rager

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/both-agree-yes-good-gif-4591420

[odd brook]

Well, "randomly" when it's like 85%

[brittle sierra]

but I dont understand why you believe that having HV by itself will be more consistent than both

[odd brook]

"believe" is a wild word

[brittle sierra]

????

so you say it is the truth

[odd brook]

In-mission tests high havoc yes, hv was more consistent

[brittle sierra]

how do you do a control test in high havoc?

[bronze glade]

Trying to do a controlled test in any live mission is just impossible

Too many different variables

You couldn’t possibly control them all

[odd brook]

You're telling me oh well what if there's no hordes, there's always a horde, what about mixed? 99% of the fight is mixed lol

It's the perfect way to see if it actually works or not because here's the mission you're trying to theoretically beat

Just run it and see what happens

[bronze glade]

Not how it works

[brittle sierra]

that's anecdotal

[odd brook]

Play button broken?

[bronze glade]

I guess they don’t teach scientific method in schools anymore?

[odd brook]

Ad hom, try again

[vale viper]

Can y'all fight already

[brittle sierra]

statistics of real world data are used to find averages from pools of samples, then use that data to find a correlation to a hypothesis

you can't look at statistic of the average IQ of different races and conclude: "wow black people are just stupid" 💀

[odd brook]

Meh, it's live gameplay. HC temporarily stopping your hv stacking matters when you have to mix blocks and dodges in

[bronze glade]

Genuine question

Because you don’t seem to understand the point of controlled tests

jUsT HiT PlAy bRo

[odd brook]

You rely too much on these controls because it 0% reflects real gameplay

That's the problem

[brittle sierra]

if I saw the scoreboard of 100 games in havoc, I can't make a conclusion that it is your build that changes the statistics by itself, since there are many other variables like modifiers, maps, classes, skill difference, spawns that could also influence the damage numbers

[bronze glade]

Thanks for explaining. I’m too lazy to.

[odd brook]

Vig auto guns look really good into psyk testing

There's a reason no one uses them for real

[bronze glade]

@azure mist

You see this?

[odd brook]

Control f my history I glaze the gun nonetheless

[bronze glade]

Nobody plays vigil

[odd brook]

I bet him and I talked about it more than you have

[molten shale]

You can with enough data (assuming these variables are distributed normally), but any measure with realistic controls is going to be very noisy

[odd brook]

Sirosky I'm gonna need to see your gamer license

[bronze glade]

How’s that possible if nobody plays it?

[odd brook]

https://tenor.com/view/snip-snip-the-van-colin-meaney-gif-14721577

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-on-shoulder-akakichi-no-eleven-everything-will-be-ok-my-brother-in-christ-we're-gonna-beat-you-gif-16692013677699419935

[upbeat gyro]

You guys need PVP mode to settle this

[brittle sierra]

even if I were to play the same map, the same people, the same classes/builds on everyone, it still wouldn't be a control test 💀

[molten shale]

That's right. I mean more that other variables can zero out with large N (think like a million games) (edit: replied to wrong comment)

[brittle sierra]

that's an ecological fallacy

what we are talking about is too specific to be represented into full havoc games

[azure mist]

What about Vigilant Autos?

[odd brook]

Not true, you can evaluate results of combo and how it should handle a given situation

[odd brook]

I was shit talking my beloved because of tests vs gameplay arguments

[bronze glade]

Testing based on vibes is perfectly fine, but it’s just vibes.

[odd brook]

It's not vibes when it's killing real rager/horde packs in 6 vs 10 seconds and how that compounds the rest of the game over and over again lol

[azure mist]

I mean the Columnus III in an actual test is a Top 5 Vet gun

[odd brook]

That's the real point of running it in missions

[azure mist]

Keep in mind VETERAN

[upbeat gyro]

Certain person whose name shall not be spoken made also video on bugged crate CDR, slightly different take on it though

[azure mist]

Psyker makes it’s pretty fucking solid also cause well it’s

Yeah it’s Psyker

Hive Scum and Arby can use it but it’s mixed

Zealot? I wouldn’t bother

[brittle sierra]

so go into the Psykanium, spawn X ragers and Y poxwalkers

and record the time it takes to clear the horde with HV, HC, HC+HV with the exact same group every single time

[azure mist]

If you have like a modicum of aim at all you can make the Vigilants cracked

And that’s the point

[bronze glade]

Thanks for perfectly describing an anecdotal vibe test

[odd brook]

Youll see same thing in that comment you just ☝️

[bronze glade]

Yeah that’s a controlled test. Too bad you can’t tell the difference.

I would explain it why they’re different but orcka already did

[odd brook]

Ad hom, try again you're reading my words and just seething instead of understanding anything and why control tests == real results

[azure mist]

Honestly you’re reminding me

I need to build test again with Vigilants

Cause I did it before the tree resorting

[brittle sierra]

path literally spawned a bunch of maulers right on top of one another so that there is as little variables as possible for his test

just pure headshots from one attack

if you want to try a different approach, by all means show us

[azure mist]

Hive Scum that is

Anyways if you’re wanting a good Vigilant that’s actually good against carapace

[bronze glade]

Somebody REALLY didn’t pay attention in middle school science classes

[brittle sierra]

people misuse "ad hominem" by calling any personal insult a fallacy

[azure mist]

You use the Agri it has a Drastically higher ADM

Graia and Column both only have a .05 vs Agris beefy .2

[bronze glade]

Clearly everything we’re saying is invalid because I got a bit spicy

[odd brook]

This is a pure output test with a weapon that doesn't scale as well as others with both

[bronze glade]

That’s how ad hom works right??

[odd brook]

It's invalid because you're mad and unreasonable

[brittle sierra]

How does Rashad not "scale" well?

[bronze glade]

Haha mad? No. This is fucking hilarious

[odd brook]

Do it with shiv, its GLARINGLY obvious

[brittle sierra]

by all means, do the same exact test with shiv heavies

[odd brook]

Heavies? Wrong

[brittle sierra]

then do it

I dont care what attack you use, but I find it sus that you are not using heavies to kill maulers

which is literally the practical attack in real games

[odd brook]

There's a fundamental misunderstanding here with how to use the talents in an optimized melee build

[brittle sierra]

the test is literally breaking it down to the fundamentals 💀

does HV or HV+HC kill more or less maulers in a given amount of time

[odd brook]

Depends on your test and how much it reflects reality

[brittle sierra]

what do you mean "reflects relaity" this is a fucking video game 💀

[odd brook]

Shiv hv with horde annihilates them faster than your only mauler controls

[odd brook]

In mission

[brittle sierra]

we aren't dealing with real physics

[odd brook]

You're spiraling a lot into weird stuff like race earlier

[brittle sierra]

brother the only difference stat difference between the pykianum and a real game is your teammates

[odd brook]

It matters hc vs hv if you've got horde to ramp on

It matters by almost 30% ttk on bigger elite packs

[brittle sierra]

you mean the IQ test?

the very common statistic that racists use to create ecological fallacies on the races of people? 💀 Which I am trying to make a comparison to ecological fallacies in the statistics of havoc games?

[brittle sierra]

so why not recreate the scenario in your head into the psykanium?

what is stopping you?

[carmine solar]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-whar-erm-whar-confused-cat-huh-what-gif-4052880542927116908

[brittle sierra]

me when I take my pills 😔

[rough peak]

Me before I take pills

[azure mist]

I was asked questions regarding Vigils and now I’m simply just watching this

[carmine solar]

Me during taking my pills

[odd brook]

Not at home

[rough peak]

adhd be like

[rough peak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1406988061509681285/image0.gif

[carmine solar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1257873638137397280/1394134804076957756/caption.gif

[rough peak]

Nooo, how dare you parry my joke...

[carmine solar]

I will do it again

I will perfect block it this time

So i will get my shield plates

[rough peak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1406988061509681285/image0.gif

Take that

[bronze glade]

Get out of here lexman

[rough peak]

Is it weird that arby made me better at avoiding hits? >.>

Not having twbs/oggy hitstun immunity means I might get hitstunned x.x

[bronze glade]

Kinda unless you count blocking

[bronze glade]

Not forceful enough I see

[rough peak]

I almost exclusively used forceful, but, forceful is not guaranteed to be up 100% of the time outside of combat

[azure mist]

It’s pretty easy to upkeep I’m ngl

Especially if you’re running shield

Literally just hold block for free stacks

[rough peak]

Yep, it's just there are times it won't be up and I could get hitstunned

which made me more vigilant about dodging >.>'

and I was already vigilant about dodging...

hive scum has been so easy after getting a double dose of dodge paranoia injected into my veins

Then again, I'm weird

Ironbreaker didn't affect how well I dodged attacks negatively <.<'

I am just so paranoid that without hitstun immunity being guaranteed I fight even harder to avoid hits than I already do... which ironically made me better at dodging

[rough peak]

I almost never blocked to get forceful stacks... I never was into the shield, tho, generally speaking

This isn't vt2, damnit

[final temple]

we have done plenty of tests ourselves. HV + HC is the theoretically optimal approach, with HV by itself doing the lion’s share.

[odd brook]

Vet guide publish when

[azure mist]

They’re especially noticeable on the Brutal Momentum weapons

[azure mist]

It’s on Steam

Been published for like a week

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-pixel-horse-fuck-you-fuck-u-horse-middle-finger-gif-15888143319771112924

[rough peak]

10/10 name, Ainz

[odd brook]

This can't be true all weapons because crit scaling affects both talents differently

Certainly not shiv/dclaw/knife where I focused my efforts on

[final temple]

what can’t be true? that both talents together increase kill speed the most or that HV does the lion’s share?

[rough peak]

Yes(idk)

[carmine solar]

https://tenor.com/view/tesla-and-einstein-luma-ai-gif-14475294631445060178

[odd brook]

Together increase speed the most especially per target (agree) vs packs (disagree, especially when mixed)

[final temple]

why would it not work against packs? neither is agnostic to cleave and both apply to each target hit

[mighty belfry]

Theoretically optimal approach for mixed horde clear except that it does result in some jank with HV regarding ogryn enemies.

[azure mist]

HV uptime also is the thing you have to account for

Which is about a second

[final temple]

yeah. but it applies to every target hit within that window AND HC is per crit damage per target

so these considerations are irrelevant. the only relevant thing is if either does not get triggered in a mixed horde and if there is an anti synergy between the triggers, active or passive

we have shown that while hC may seem to be counterintuitive to hV buildup, the window of interference is irrelevant compared to the effective kill speed, specifically due to cleave in mixed hordes

[odd brook]

It does have interference though, it takes away targets to stack on

[mighty belfry]

The interference does exist.

[odd brook]

Not a big deal for short hordes/small packs but it makes a difference with higher density

[mighty belfry]

But what you get for it, is honestly a pretty good tradeoff.

Its actually higher density hordes where those two shine together.

[final temple]

no. it doesn’t. because hC gets applied after the initial damage instance. if you overkill with that initial damage instance (as hV would want) you don’t have to worry about hC stealing overkill.

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit doesn't trigger if you were already about to oneshot whatever you hit.

[odd brook]

It'll turn your almost one shot (high hv value for stack on followup) into a hc kill

[mighty belfry]

On melee builds, even in h40, that does actually make the relationship a lot more synergistic than it seems at first.

[azure mist]

Hell H40 Taxe with the two is fucking disgusting

[odd brook]

Taxe is disgusting in general lol

[mighty belfry]

Getting over 5 kills in one light with shivs with both lol

[final temple]

and the cases where ‘you would want to leave some target with a sliver of health to kill for a massive amount of overkill’ are irrelevant, because hV only adds increased instances of overkill. given that chaff in hordes has low health, these theoretical edge cases are irrelevant

[mighty belfry]

It's really dumb actually.

[leaden fable]

Hsword in shambles

[mighty belfry]

Hsword with hv alone is crazy tbh

[drifting heron]

I've gotten 14 with hsword

[leaden fable]

Damn okay I gotta try that

[drifting heron]

2 swings in a row

14 then like 8

[leaden fable]

It just felt rough when I had to fight the crusher squad with it

But now we got ranged ogryn nuke so I guess that's fine

[mighty belfry]

Gotta make sure you're hitting trash in the midst to proc hv for crushers.

And also the heavy rending node.

[odd brook]

These edge cases and purposely creating them are how you get crusher 2 taps and where the massive value of just hv come from

[final temple]

hC and hV work the best if you stop trying to setup your overkill and go for the most cleave you can find.

[odd brook]

It's ultimately a very different approach to combat

[final temple]

no. you don’t. you get the massive crusher taps through increasing cleave overkill. hC doesn’t come into play there because you one tap the chaff from which you build off already.

[low harbor]

stance generally wants 8s ogryn refresh now

[final temple]

this is a lot less active management than some people seem to think.

[mighty belfry]

There is an argument for this interfering if say, you went from a mauler to a crusher

[odd brook]

Chaff of poxers vs bruisers/21st makes this context dependent again

Because a lot of weapons aren't going to be able to handle overkilling on cleave on these targets

[final temple]

these weapons also don’t 2 tap crushers.

[final temple]

yeah. technically that would be such an edge case. but hV would not cause huge swings there either.

irrespective of hC.

[mighty belfry]

True. If a crit was already going to full on one-shot a mauler, it probably wasn't going to do that much overkill unless it got really softened up before hand.

This does also make a justification for running the two on rotten armor missions tbh

[odd brook]

You can do some really crazy stuff with teammate debuffs

[low harbor]

I think u shud just run both if u don't have rampage tbh

[final temple]

in practicality the theoretical interference just dissolves into irrelevance. you can run whatever you want but the narrative that hC and hV are bad together has not sufficient evidence.

[low harbor]

and if u have rampage, optionally can skip hypercrit but usually not cuz pickpocket op

[odd brook]

Hypercritical is the greatest tax node of all time

[low harbor]

I wouldn't call a good pathing node tax

[mighty belfry]

Honestly even on rampage build, hypercrit puts in a lot of work. Probably moreso because of the extra melee strength also increasing your cleave, making hypercrit even more consistent through hordes.

[odd brook]

Honestly I could see this

[low harbor]

yes

hypercrit just really strong

[mighty belfry]

It works surprisingly well.

[low harbor]

I think the biggest benefit of hypercrit isn't mauler

it's rager

u can mog ragers so hard with hypercrit it's funny

[mighty belfry]

That right there.

[odd brook]

Yeah 1200 hp ragers is kind of easy to deal with

[mighty belfry]

Is the #1 justification for hypercrit

[low harbor]

u can achieve like 60% of power sword stance vet's rager killing with hypercrit

[odd brook]

Knife punch followup one taps

[low harbor]

they're 2000/2500 in auric and 3000/3750 in havoc max

[mighty belfry]

And with both, it only makes hypercrit more consistently able to cleave for rager one shots.

[odd brook]

Reverted to pre buff numbers because I'm old

[mighty belfry]

And for scum, that's a big justification because ragers are genuinely a big issue for them.

Really I just think it depends on what you want to do.

But hc and hv do actually have some use together, despite what others might say. Its if you feel like the tradeoff of a bit of burst damage at times on ogryn enemies, is worth honestly much more consistent mixed horde clear

Which, as of recently, I've been seeing more value in the horde clear in havoc.

[woeful hill]

I take both hyper violence and critical because my scum uses drugs and is hyper active

case closed

[odd brook]

Meta shifting to more dedicated anti armor again so hordes are running people over a bit more

[final temple]

I take both if I can, hC on desperado and hybrid builds.

[mighty belfry]

Plus that burst damage on ogryns isn't entirely lost.

If you do high enough damage, you don't have to worry too much about hypercrit causing interference since it won't proc if you were already going to one shot them.

[verbal dew]

ye I run the same, just saying that you can get away with those on no extra talents

[mighty belfry]

Tis why I've been running rampage scum with adren with high crit weapons. The more damage you actually do, the less hypercrit will interfere. Therefore, critting less but hitting faster and harder lessens the instances of those interferences.

[final temple]

not even oneshot. if the damage instance would kill them, hC won’t proc. so hC never steals the deliberate overkill setup and maximally the weird edge case where you would not onetap a low hp target.

[low harbor]

the other thing is

in either rampage/crate build

u will either have

such a ridiculous lvl of dmg bonus that ur crit one shot every human enemy

or

such a ridiculous lvl of crit chance that u crit one shot every human enemy with hypercrit

it just works

[mighty belfry]

Finesse crate is so underrated for melee scum

[low harbor]

I don't run finesse crate

speed(stun immune) + str(crit) is wat I run

fervor for speed also rly good but man pubs do not take advantage of it and I need the stun immune for obj

[mighty belfry]

I do with high finesse weapons. Feels like it does more than the crit chance if I'll be honest.

Though it does also lessen Precision Violence's efficiency.

[low harbor]

nah 97.5% crit chance (without crit chance aura or stim crate bug abusing) is op

[final temple]

if you can maintain like ~75% critchance, finesse should be equal and any source of additional finesse should push it beyond what more critchance does

[low harbor]

base 10%
grey node 5%
shiv 12.5%
riposte 20%
FLaB 20%
dependency 15%
stim 15%

[supple torrent]

I've been sipping the HC+HV koolaid for a few days now. It just feels better than either alone

[supple torrent]

been hearing this but idk how to test it.

[final temple]

you don’t need to test it, that’s how the talent works (we have data miners who list the exact mechanism because FS can’t be bothered to write transparent tt)

[supple torrent]

Well in that case.

It just feels good. Idk if I can go back using either alone on a melee build.

[tender ice]

Does HC mean that a crit will essentially deal double damage if that double damage results in a kill?

Wording is confusing

[final temple]

what it does: you crit on a target. the talent takes that damage and checks if that damage applied twice would kill the target. if yes, it will kill the target.

[tender ice]

Your crit does 100 damage, enemy has 199hp, you kill them

[supple torrent]

Yes

[tender ice]

[final temple]

keep in mind it doesn’t apply on ogryns, bosses and daemonhosts

everything else is fair game

including your credit score

[tender ice]

Good, kill my credit score

[verbal dew]

I'm starting to run out of fits available for the different builds I wanna run

[main trellis]

same; best combo; i also use rending in some builds

[supple torrent]

I run the same but with rending.

[low harbor]

Fervor also rly good but depends on team kinda

Rending is super team dependent, usually not worth

[supple torrent]

Screw more cdr I want to actually feel the drugs

[main trellis]

weapons you use tbh; team has nothing to do with it i would say

[supple torrent]

I prefer to not depend on the team for such tasks. The veteran might go down or is dealing with his own armor horde.

[main trellis]

Rending is for reducing your weak amds a lil bit when crit is not that beneficial (rarely but for uzis rending is best)

[supple torrent]

But it is a generic stimm for melee. I'd probably swap it around based on the weapon

for uzi I run only rending 50 visc.

[worn yoke]

pox gas rotten armor and blight spread

i love this havoc

[lilac ermine]

Hyper critical isnt really gud

[supple torrent]

It feels good. I love accidentally one tapping maulers.

[lilac ermine]

Once you get your first mauler in pack the rest just die in 1 shot from hyperviolence damage

Just have to land shiv headshots within the time hyperviolence is active

[supple torrent]

It started to feel incosistent for me. Besides I can run HC and HV and just get both.

I'm fine with sacrificing a point if it feels good

[lilac ermine]

I might get since its on way to pickpocket

Is the sweetspot talent worth it

[supple torrent]

I think it depends on the weapon and their weakspot damage. I think shivs have a good weakspot bonus.

[mighty belfry]

It's nice on weapons with high finesse

[mighty belfry]

It's a great talent though.

Good melee investment for non melee builds or makes your mixed horde clear explode on melee builds with hv

That last point probably barely matters for auric but its definitely noticeable in say, higher havoc

[zenith fern]

Useful on melees that benefit high finesse stats

Like shivs and knives

[mighty belfry]

Wondering if having sweet spot, and both hyper talents would be worth it

[zenith fern]

I often take sweet spot and HC

[bronze glade]

I mean there’s some overlap but they also kinda do different things

[mighty belfry]

The overlap is worth having the extra consistency in horde clear with both hyper talents imho

[bronze glade]

Yah I think so

[worn yoke]

i actually havent tried combat knife rampage

i should

[winter tusk]

In auric mk3 1 taps pretty much everything but crushers once you get uncanny and whatnot cooking

[worn yoke]

yeah i just dont know what other blessing to run

probably like precog or riposte or something

[dim moth]

don't need to specify "in auric" it maintains this in havoc 40s

5 decimator stacks to one shot a crusher

only 2 without a crit iirc

oh wait

[winter tusk]

Just specifying what ive tested on

[dim moth]

is this not about shovel

[winter tusk]

Nah knife

[dim moth]

yeah I meant mk3 shovel xd

I can't read just ignore me

[winter tusk]

Shovel is fun though ive been playing db build lately

[bronze glade]

Hmm yeah could be funny with attack speed stimm

[worn yoke]

my combat knife is weirdly shovel shaped

actually wouldve been pretty nice if scum could use shovels

they're pretty fun

[bronze glade]

Nah vet should get to keep its exclusive weapons

[ocean hollow]

Mm this make my brain feel funny

I wanna do that

[bronze glade]

Esp after getting cucked by falch

[dim moth]

the fate of the zealot's crusher shall befall you

[worn yoke]

looks at ogryn shovel

[bronze glade]

Not the same weapon obviously

[worn yoke]

[winter tusk]

I hope they release some staves or something

[worn yoke]

halberd 🗣️

[ornate sorrel]

releases new psyker gun...staff

[winter tusk]

I wish each of the base classes could at least get 1 weapon each that the community wants

[ocean hollow]

I come bearing a build and wish for critique for havoc 40.

Currently I only use the needle pistol for specialists or mag dumping a boss.

The nades are just to apply chem toxin for buff and getting my stimm off cooldown which is the crit+damage taken reduction

I should use the website huh

way less aids to look at

[winter tusk]

I see so many people talk about new staves, and knuckles for ogryns

[ocean hollow]

(Shivs, mk1)

[brittle sierra]

Use this: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor

[ocean hollow]

thank

[brittle sierra]

I don't know what weapon you are using so I have no idea how to critique it

I am seeing however at the top half of the build you are missing and wasting points

[ocean hollow]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a0ca5f00-18bc-435a-b57e-4e367186fe94

[supple torrent]

Long lasting is kinda bad

[ocean hollow]

Drop it for HC?

[lilac schooner]

33% increase in stim duration

[brittle sierra]

nimble is probably one of the best talents in the entire tree, I am not sure why you skipped it