hivescum-class

[lapis raft]

nah rather put bunch of blessing on it that do not even work to bait people

as christmas present

[livid raven]

truly

[eager reef]

should have given is one that increases max chem stacks but only under hyper specific situations

[lapis raft]

even the aoe blessing would be nice and would actually make sense

like on bolt pistol

as blue mode is aoe

[eager reef]

im ngl i almost never use yellow

esp running chem shivs

[livid raven]

why wouldn't you

[eager reef]

bc i forget it's there and dont care, i'll kill it anyway

[lapis raft]

when i see bunch of crushers i just spam bunch of yellow at them and bunch of crushers are now bunch of corpses

[livid raven]

then you prob always use yellow

[lapis raft]

but with pickpocket spamming blue mode through half of mission is pretty fun too :d

[livid raven]

like, that's the default mode

[eager reef]

i am curious if they'll actually do anything to it

esp after initial reception of the trogs was "class bad"

[livid raven]

i don't think the blue mode is anywhere too strong for it to be nerfed

but i expect overall sneedler nerfs

[eager reef]

no i mean pickpocket nerf

[lapis raft]

i assume it was about pickpocket not blue mode

[livid raven]

right

[eager reef]

not needle

[lapis raft]

yea

[livid raven]

yeah it's getting murdered

either they decrease the ammo to 10% or put a cooldown

[lapis raft]

yea pickpocket is way too broken and braindead atm

[eager reef]

needle is strong for sure but im not sure it's needed for tuning

[lapis raft]

tey could also make pickpocket only work on melee kills

[eager reef]

i directly compare it to pysker flame staff tbh

[signal nebula]

pickpocket is the issue, not needler

[lapis raft]

and lower it to like 15% or whatever

[eager reef]

now this is an idea

[lapis raft]

so you cant just stand still

and shoot like most braindead monkey

[cedar cairn]

Idk Pickpocket survived the first change

[astral canyon]

That would be cool

[eager reef]

the first round was bug fixes and rocket tweaks tbh

[cedar cairn]

Who tf is standing still as Scum

[lapis raft]

well you know what i meant :d

[eager reef]

trogs calling the class bad

same people duck walking on vet

[lapis raft]

legit can just waste ammo permanently shooting randomly

and it doesnt matter because pickpocket

[livid raven]

they prob didn't want to kill a third of the builds with the winter sales around the corner

[cedar cairn]

I hope they don't touch Pickpocket, I don't want havoc sweats reducing this class to Worse Veteran so they can keep playing Carpal Tunnel Psyker

[livid raven]

true

[lapis raft]

i mean would making pickpocket work only on melee kills be that bad of a change?

[livid raven]

but i kinda feel the hate permeating from my screen when i play desperado and do more damage than the rest of the team combined

[lapis raft]

i think it would make sense

[eager reef]

i dont want is nerfed, but wont be suprised if it saw a change

[livid raven]

yeah

it would be pretty bad

[cedar cairn]

I don't care what my teammates think, most of them can't even kill a sniper before attempting a rescue

[livid raven]

i don't disagree

[lapis raft]

yea but it wouldnt make any of the actual builds straight up non functional, would just require more effort to actually abuse the node

[eager reef]

it would likely see more casual players who only follow guides leave the class

[cedar cairn]

Someone's got to start dealing damage and it sure isn't gonna be no-dog John-Bodycam the Arbites

[livid raven]

you'd be surprised, i think dogless is better

[lapis raft]

well dogless certainly does more damage at least

[livid raven]

tho arbites isn't exactly the best dealer around in any case

[eager reef]

other than scoreboard breaking my game i had to turn it off bc the stress of knowing im dealing more damage than my team together and then seeing it numbers drove me to drink

[livid raven]

i mean, it means you carried

[weary pebble]

Dog and no-dog are both viable, but you're not gonna be topping damage charts either way

[livid raven]

they should be grateful they won despite being lazy bums

[dim moth]

Arbites caaaaaaaaaan top damage charts in one situation

Mk 3 exterminator shotgun, and you're a stand-in for inferno psyker

[lapis raft]

i lost so much damage from switching to crate but im def having more fun

[livid raven]

true

[weary pebble]

Fair lol

[dim moth]

Which will never happen, but it is infact a role Arbites can fill

[lapis raft]

and i dont use scoreboard anymore anyway

[dim moth]

Mk 3 is a very good crowd cruncher

[lapis raft]

as i only care about my stats

[weary pebble]

Is there a way to make ammo use more manageable to actually do that all match?

[livid raven]

lol no

[cedar cairn]

I'm still salty about the number of times a sniper got like 7-10 shots off because some Arby with a dog can't ping
As a dog Arby enthusiast it pains me

[livid raven]

ammo is the biggest weakness of the exterminator shotgun

[dim moth]

No. It's just a role that Arbites can fill if they expect to be the only one using their ammo

Kinda like a rumblergryn

[livid raven]

i dunno

i would just shoot the sniper

[lapis raft]

arbites + 3 scums

[weary pebble]

Okay, that's what I thought but I hoped I just missed something lol

[dim moth]

It's not uncommon for there to be only one guy on the team in a havoc lobby that actually needs ammo pickups

[cedar cairn]

The Parole Squad

[dim moth]

And if that's you on Arbites you can rock Mk3 and shoot through mixed hordes

[livid raven]

if there are 3 scums

i fear the arbites won't have much of a job to do

especially if they are 3 desperados

[final temple]

you can always scold the others for reliance on stimms and not providing to the tithe.

[lapis raft]

he can throw shock mine at doors

ez value

[eager reef]

imagine how Wolfer must feel now knowing that he's losing troops to actual crackheads

[livid raven]

zealot was already there

[eager reef]

congrats you've summoned the florida man

[astral canyon]

Anyone got a tox spam crate setup?

[lapis raft]

#hivescum-class message i run this with needler and knife and str crit and cdr branch

[astral canyon]

Knife as in shivs or single knife?

[lapis raft]

knife as in combat blade

[astral canyon]

Which mk?

[lapis raft]

6

push attack for killing stuff and h1/h2/lights for clear (even though i use blue mode a lot for clear instead)

[astral canyon]

Dont have it unlocked yet unfortunately

Just have a mk3

[lapis raft]

yea then just shivs are better i guess

but shivs there kinda need either hv or hc, i dont rly like clearing with them without one of those

[astral canyon]

I could also take the stamina attack speed node

[lapis raft]

unless you run +stam curios its pretty bad on 4 stam weps imo but yea with stam curios its fun

[livid raven]

irrc the hivescum has 3 stamina

[lapis raft]

yea and knife/shivs give +1 right

[livid raven]

nope

i mean unless you take that lame blessing

[astral canyon]

Shivs give +1

[livid raven]

do they now

[astral canyon]

And scum has base 3

[astral canyon]

Yes

[lapis raft]

yea pretty sure i have 4 stam with both knife and shivs

[thorny ginkgo]

the orange hit marker is a crit right and yellow is weakspot

[astral canyon]

Orange is crit+weakspot

Iirc

[broken bear]

Orange is crit in general

[lavish bronze]

The pistole feel good

Lvl the smgs already

[whole marten]

MI BOMBA

[livid raven]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/653?tab=files&file_id=4080

oh wait wrong mod

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/654?tab=files&file_id=4211

a bit too hard for fatshark

have a gray over a lighter gray bar instead

[tender ice]

Peak design lmao

[vast yoke]

which camo pattern should i go for on this build?

alternatively..

[placid prairie]

Wait how the fuck do you have a camo pattern on shivs

[eager reef]

mods i bet

[limber cradle]

yeah i painted my pants pattern onto my pair of broken scissors

[quiet zodiac]

Tread Lightlies for life

[tranquil berry]

Afaik it doesn't track hyper critical kills but haven't confirmed

[subtle yacht]

How are these Curios for Hive Scum?

[lapis raft]

i use almost same curios on crate build so sounds about right

even though the cd is def replaceble with revive speed etc, i had revive speed/stam regen on rampage setup before i believe instead

[livid raven]

depends on the build

[lapis raft]

yea i guess desperado setups would also not give a shit about gunner resist there :d

[torn ember]

I feel like non-desperado builds typically want one +3 stamina curio for the attack speed

[lapis raft]

only if you are actually taking swift endurance, not everyone does

[torn ember]

This is true

[novel oracle]

Why wouldn't you on scum

[tight musk]

Right now I use 2 stam curios and 1 toughness.

3x toughness perks, 2x gunner resist, 1 bomber resist, 3x revive speed.

I mostly play with saw-focused stimm supply build so I don't really care about ability cooldown.

[lapis raft]

on shivs/knife if you dont use the stam curio its not super worth the point, especially on knife

if you use stam curio then its worth but do i need it i dont rly

[vast yoke]

skipping it on desperado builds, tac axe since swift endurance is bugged with it and doesnt give it atk speed (unless that's been fixed)

besides that it's a free 20% attack speed, which is way too good for 1 talent point to skip

[lapis raft]

its 6-8 attack speed on shivs and knife baseline, especially if you use the sprint attacks a lot, obvs way better for stuffthat actually gievs you bunch of max stam as baseline and also attacks slower

[vast yoke]

i always grab 2 stamina curios on my melee builds so its pretty much always worth it

but ig thats preference

[lapis raft]

preference and big tradeoff

[vast yoke]

and base stamina regen for scum is absurd so it doesnt stay low after sprinting for long

i dont rlly think its a big tradeoff actually

even with an extra 34% toughness on havoc the scum is either max toughness or dead 😭

any overhead will just kill you so all that toughness is doing is blocking bullets

and im fine with just a single toughness curio for it

[lapis raft]

you can actually tank overheads on scum

not that you would want to but you can

[frigid wyvern]

does anyone else find it funny the hive scum reaction to when they are out of ammo?

[vast yoke]

i think tank is a gross exagarattion XD more like barely survive

but yeah ik what you mean

i actually find a ton of stamina super useful for revives anyway

its weirdly comfier

[lapis raft]

exactly, barely, so if you lose the curios you actually cant anymore :d

bu yea i was playing with double stam curio as well for a bit

[vast yoke]

yeah i prefer the attack speed and revive safety ngl

[lapis raft]

the survivability difference isnt that big other than surviving one shots

so its fine

but still you are losing somethign

[vast yoke]

true

i just like the attack speed brrrrrr

[vast yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/mc-ride-gif-19187511

[jovial thorn]

[tight musk]

All of them...what?

[jovial thorn]

Possibly gonna be New Class “Cryptic”

[ancient basin]

holdin out for skitari, but ill take zealot saltzpyre elf bashing as a consolation prize

have only heard the line once, but hadron does mention grendyl holding off on requisitioning skitari for the tertium front during the trench mission

[jovial thorn]

Tru, also there was dialogue of Rejects discussing that Rannak knows and found lost Manufacturioums out in the Wastes

The possibilities are endless Pals

[tight musk]

Radiation poisoning skitarii build that gives enemies mega cancer.

[ancient basin]

some ultimates: auto aim, turret, radiation aura

give em a talent that increases the speed of hacks by adding additional completion nodes per row or something

so normally its 4, 1 per row, but now its 8, 2 per row. incease the overall speed of the current hack segment by 30%

lots of overpen rail gun weapons or radiation rifles

weird melee attack patterns with higher damage and stagger

[zealous ravine]

jokaero class

[vast yoke]

Honestly would love an Aeldari class but that shit would not fit power level-wise 😭

[zealous ravine]

its true no way they could keep up

[vast yoke]

a sanction xeno Kroot would fit but would need a lore justification, then again GW loves T'au lately so not impossible..

I'd love a Kroot with some sort of eating mechanic to gain buffs

"yo guys let me eat this plogryn"

would be really cool to have a Kroot that doesn't have toughness and instead uses THP like in VT2 because they keep munching on their foes between swings

[winter tusk]

i've heard they're not going to do xeno classes but who knows how true that is

[icy scaffold]

Kroot don’t take to eating chaos very well

Their shapers tend to say no because it ends badly

[honest shale]

I would love it if cryptec was a Spyre Hunter from Necromunda seeing as GW is super pushing that product this year.

Would let us have basic power armor for a class and maybe some neat abilities dealing with power armor.

[icy scaffold]

Power armor would be super OP in Darktide

[jovial thorn]

I mean we do got Arbites and still the Admonition Cult is constantly thriving even with the Hive Scum Cartel help

[honest shale]

Boltor should be OP but it isn't. This is a game.

[vast yoke]

bolter is still more powerful than it is in space marine 2 XD

sm2 bolt pistols 💀

random tzeench cultists tanking 5 bolt pistol shots like its nothing

[radiant swift]

Such is the power of the changer

[jovial thorn]

Know me think about it, the “power level” thing BEEN throwin out the window

since the Rejects we are can fight through a whole contrey army of zombies, Armored Ogryns, Captains, DemonHosts, Chaos Spawn…..

[radiant swift]

beyond your comprehension

[jovial thorn]

need i say more

[icy scaffold]

Bolter is limited by ammo and all that. Power armor makes you tankier then an Ogryn

[radiant swift]

limited by ammo and draw speed, but the punch is worth it

[icy scaffold]

Bolter feels like a bolter looking at you Space Marine 2

[honest shale]

Spyre Hunters would fit the theme of DT regardless of lorebois crying about power armor feels.

[radiant swift]

pretty damn well designed weapon ngl

compared to how the plasma gun feels to me 💀

[frigid thorn]

is heavy sword's perks carapace/unyielding?

[main trellis]

never; Flak & Maniac/Unyielding

[brittle sierra]

Carapace

Heavy Sword

[frigid thorn]

ok that's what I thought

lmao

someone told me carapace in the past for some reason

[radiant swift]

something about HV stacking up really high on it

I remember seeing that too

[frigid thorn]

that was probably it

yeah

[mighty belfry]

Tbh, if it's rampage

[frigid thorn]

it's on rampage

[mighty belfry]

You can actually get away with carapace

Because you do so much base damage already.

Might as well get help against the one thing you don't damage as much

assuming

[brittle sierra]

No

[mighty belfry]

You're taking the heavy rending node.

[frigid thorn]

yeah I'm taking the heavy rending node

[mighty belfry]

That is a full on must have if you're going heavy sword.

[frigid thorn]

i'll try flak and see if it helps with the bruisers first lol

i'm just running cole's build for the heavy sword, I've enjoyed it

[frigid thorn]

I love your baby

BABY

[brittle sierra]

Yes

She had fleas but we bathed her and now she is fluffy again

[frigid thorn]

stinky baby

[brittle sierra]

No more fleas

[frigid thorn]

wosh her she smely

[brittle sierra]

We already did

[frigid thorn]

😂

does she like baths

or does she get the big mad

[mighty belfry]

From my experience, you're usually hitting their heads, which is unarmored and if you're doing that, you're already doing a ton of overkill to feed HV

[frigid thorn]

yeah hm

[mighty belfry]

Hive scum breaking the rules once again

[frigid thorn]

yes

[brittle sierra]

Yes

Time to nap sleep tight

[mighty belfry]

She's so smiley though

[frigid thorn]

sleepy time....

[brittle sierra]

Dogs don't smile like humans

This is a misconception

The smile for humans is just a signal

For dogs, curling the lips up usually is a sign of panting

[supple torrent]

Its likely dog are mimicking humans though. Smile mean good so they smile

[brittle sierra]

No

This is why we think cats are stoic, cats don't show much facial expressions

But they are capable of loving their owners as much as dogs

[thorny ginkgo]

anyone here like destiny 2

[brittle sierra]

weeez

[candid flare]

Over 7k hours since closed Beta

Haven't played I like a year and a half tho

[brittle sierra]

Goodbye

[thorny ginkgo]

wowwww, i just got back into it after 3 years

i need to take a break from darktide lmao it’s the only game i play

[candid flare]

Did you like skate 3 back in the day?
The new one is my chill burnout relief game

[brittle sierra]

Can Bungie flop already so that they crawl back to Microsoft and be forced to work on Halo for all eternity?

[candid flare]

Please

[thorny ginkgo]

i used to play that on the 360 as a kid, it was chill. i’ll look into it

[thorny ginkgo]

the halo falloff needs to be studied

[brittle sierra]

Nah it's very simple

Bungie was on top of the world

Then they devoured themselves

Tale as old as time

[thorny ginkgo]

smh it’s so annoying.. i remember those halo reach days though, so much fun

[brittle sierra]

I honestly think people have pure nostalgia

Because when I tried playing the MC collection I was super bored

Let Halo die in peace

[thorny ginkgo]

sadly i agree

[icy scaffold]

Give Halo live action a season 2

[gray loom]

huh, the needle pistol has marks

thats cool

[charred bronze]

combat shotgun is Fire Frenzy and Deathspitter? How's Full Bore with slugs?

[tropic crag]

i randomly decided to watch that like 2 months ago... about halfway through like the 4th episode i remembered i was watching a halo series and all the halo was in the first like 2 mins of the show then never again

i never finished the show lol

[icy scaffold]

Yea it was just some random writer’s sci-fi show with a Halo skin

I hope the Mass Effect live action is better but I doubt it

[tropic crag]

but also to me halo died at halo 2, that was when it was truly a great game and after that it was just "another halo game"

like i just couldn't get into halo 3

[tropic crag]

its easy to do tbh... its just star trek with scarcity and more military action

[brittle sierra]

Nah fuck that

Halo series is too cringe to handle

Turned MC into a porky

[thorny ginkgo]

i heard of ts and never watched it.. lowkey forgot it existed until you guys brought it up lol

[final temple]

Halo needs to fuck off in general

[brittle sierra]

It basically has

Infinite is an absolute disaster

[tropic crag]

the first like 5 mins is actually pretty good, after that tho it turns into a random scifi

[thorny ginkgo]

oh that’s some crazy work smh

[brittle sierra]

Microsoft is too busy rolling in money to care anymore

[thorny ginkgo]

i’m not surprised

[tropic crag]

honestly i stopped caring about halo because it decided all the flaws of first person shooters during the time it came out were actually its "identity" and basically stagnated design wise for decades

[icy scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-paramount-master-cvief-eliud-halo-eliud-maat-halo-master-chief-battle-gif-26637491

[brittle sierra]

They have Blizzard, Activision, Minecraft, Bethesda

Their only real competition anymore is Sony

[tropic crag]

and for some series that works, like EDF can stay janky, but halo was never a janky game it was considered peak design

[icy scaffold]

Elite with a Jackal shield. Lmao

[tropic crag]

then just stagnated because it didn't grow with the rest of design theory

[brittle sierra]

What they could have done is an Arbiter series

Showing how he frees his home planet and progresses the Covenant

[tropic crag]

story doesn't matter for why i don't like it, its all design stuff so i wouldn't have liked anything if they didn't change that

things like gun feel and stuff like that

[brittle sierra]

Nah I figured out why Halo fell off

Y'all ready?

No flood pudding 😈

[tropic crag]

if you eat flood do you become flood? or does it just wait until it can launched a toilet based ambush?

[radiant swift]

I uh, don't know actually

you probably become flood

shit's op

[spark gyro]

chat good weapon perks for shivs

[tropic crag]

i need to actually use the shivs more so i can answer things like this lol

i've just been so bonesaw focused lately

[spark gyro]

i feel like i cant play anything else other than shivs

i feel like a british person

[hardy maple]

Im late, but my problem with these arguments is that even if bungie started working on halo again, the bungie of today is not the bungie of yesterday, completely new people working there, it might still have the name but its not the same

[tropic crag]

if you start scream singing country road at 2am then you know its gone past the point of no return

[jaunty spire]

Any tips for bonesaw? I want to make it work but it's yet to click with me

[tropic crag]

which can, earnestly, be a good thing

[hardy maple]

I dont disagree, but do you have an example in mind

[spark gyro]

COUNTRY ROOOAAAAD stabs someone TAKE ME HOOOOOME stabs another guy

[hardy maple]

TO THE PLACE stabs another guy I BELONG

[tropic crag]

the easiest one to point out is baulders gate, its like the current example everyone knows

[vast yoke]

ngl once i learned the power of box cutter crit shivs i fell out of love for bonesaw 💔

[tropic crag]

but also overwatch, its had a huge amount of turn over and its current team is great compared to the older teams

[spark gyro]

i neeed shiv perrrkskkks

[vast yoke]

i saw some people run bonesaw on despo builds just as a rending stick

which was interesting

[tropic crag]

honestly... for me it was realizing that i needed to use even more lights... and aim for chests when doing heavy 1 as it latches better and most things have better armor for you there anyway (not everything tho)

and also if you use the bonesaw you need to go tox build otherwise it just feels worse

[low harbor]

isn't there a helo CE remake next year

[vast wigeon]

Bg3 is good in spite of dnd5e

I think it's woefully inferior to dos2

[tropic crag]

if they just kept tox on and light attacked they'd probably kill the armor just as fast while also being able to do other things

[final temple]

Marathon is gonna be fine.

[tropic crag]

i don't really understand the usecase of the rending coating

because everything you can rend you can just light attack to death with the stacks

[vast yoke]

they slap a crusher a few times then mag dump

[vast wigeon]

That's correct, especially since the poison ignores armor

[tropic crag]

they could just slap the crusher a few times then mag dump something else

[livid raven]

it doesn't really ignore armor

[radiant swift]

rather has a .9 carapace adm

[vast wigeon]

Yes on the class with super AIDs on a gun option

[vast wigeon]

I heard unlike bleeding it's unaffected by rending

[vast yoke]

hey don't look at me, i don't play desperado because it's boring as shit

[livid raven]

i dunno about rending, but it doesn't ignore armor

try it on a voidshield and watch it do barely any damage

[vast wigeon]

Well 3 doses of super AIDs stops a crusher right quick so

Did you just assume when I said armor I meant force shields

That's a stretch

[livid raven]

it also has reduced performance against carapace

vodishield is just a type of armor

[vast yoke]

it is affected by rending, it's pretty easy to test by just playing around with rending on stim. it's just not a huge deal cus i imagine it has good cara adm

[tropic crag]

lol i'm just saying its a silly thing to do but they can if they want , like i'm the guy who argues that i love things with like 1 niche use case in these games but i can't understand why anyone would use the rend when the tox does everything already

[brittle sierra]

Oh I don't care about Halo

I want Bungie to suffer 😈

[vast wigeon]

Right like rending significantly affects ttk on bleeding

[livid raven]

also .9 adm sounds good until you find out it has 2.5 adm against most other enemies except infested

[radiant swift]

I thought only maniac was that high

[livid raven]

maniac and unyelding irrc

[vast wigeon]

But I don't see any use case for conveniently applying rending to the chem tox

[livid raven]

and i think unarmored

lemme catch them adm

[vast yoke]

tbh the rending mode on the saw does change the damage portions of the saw adm to favor flak and cara. still not worth over dot stacking

[vast wigeon]

The time it takes to slime something purple,swap to green or just lead off with a tox weapon, literally rending lube doesn't matter on hive scum

[livid raven]

ok it has 2.5 unarmoured, 1.5 flak, 0.9 unyelding, 2 maniac, 0.9 infested and carapace

and 0.1 voidshield

[vast yoke]

i am pooping rn ama

[vast wigeon]

Yeah a heavy attack does just fine on flak headshots

[tropic crag]

the bonesaw still chews through the voidshields on its own without the tox so at least on that weapons thats a non issue

[vast wigeon]

That said the butcher cleaver has so low base damage I don't see why it has rending

But the purple poison on the heavy sword and now we talkin

[livid raven]

the rending coating is for the team

[tropic crag]

a couple of its attacks have some.... crazy big spikes in damage

[vast wigeon]

Only one I know is the overhead 2x hit

[vast yoke]

yeah besides using it as a rending stick to boost ranged damage (extremely dubious in actually effectiveness but I see it done occasionally) it's kinda whatever

[tropic crag]

that is the main one tbh, the damage on the second tick of it is huge

i just think that tox is currently so good there is not reason to ever use the rend tho

[vast yoke]

how much rending is even applied per tick

[radiant swift]

after you maxed out stacks maybe

though it does stack with brittleness or something iirc

[vast wigeon]

Now that's a thought, rending shiv with stubber pistol

You know. As a hybrid single weapon

[livid raven]

it's a special type of brittleness that stacks with the normal one yeah

[radiant swift]

meaning you can get a massive debuff on an enemy if you have someone that has thunderous on a weapon

[vast yoke]

uncanny strike duration is a bit too short for that tbh

[vast wigeon]

Holy hell why though

[livid raven]

no idea

[radiant swift]

to make it possibly useful

[vast yoke]

doesn't bonesaw have a brittleness blessing

[vast wigeon]

No I was thinking a single pistol with a shiv stab as a sp attack

[tropic crag]

the problem being that by the time you did that you could have also just tox'd it and put it in kill range for EVERYONE

[livid raven]

not that i remember

also if you run the brittleness blessing

your build gets fucked as you don't grab the strength blessing or the cleave blessing

[vast yoke]

if it does then maybe the buff stick isn't a dead idea

[radiant swift]

100%, but it is an important thing to point out imo

[vast wigeon]

You could argue in boned for using the non shiv to begin with

[vast yoke]

not if you just wanna use it as a debuff stick on despo, assuming the brittleness blessing exists which it prob doesn't

[livid raven]

so true

bro i tried

[tropic crag]

honestly i think they overtuned tox because they were afraid people would treat it like bleed and hate it for not being strong enough (before the bleed buffs)

[livid raven]

never again

you instantly become the worst shit ever as soon as you switch to the bonesaw in a despacito build with 0 melee investement

[tropic crag]

bonesaw is only good in melee tox builds if you ask me

but it SHINES in that build

[livid raven]

because i really thought the same, despacito has difficulties against carapace so obviously you take either the crowbar or the bonesaw to deal with that right?

WRONG

[radiant swift]

the boring and ever reliable axe

[vast wigeon]

Crowbar is good in uprising

How it falls off vs difficulty is worth studying

Man is it bad

[tropic crag]

my sensiblities would have me grabbing an axe to get a good weapon with no melee investement for carapace

[livid raven]

which one

also yeah i just get the shivs

[tropic crag]

i think its really good tbh, its just a jack of all trades weapon but it performs fine

[livid raven]

or the tacaxe

[vast wigeon]

Iirc both tacax and combat ax are good

[livid raven]

i really dislike the combat axe on despacito

[tropic crag]

yeah either axe because in tide games axes have armor pen attacks often

[vast wigeon]

I hate how floaty the dodge feels on chaxe

[vast wigeon]

But the shiv is a jack of all trades weapon that does more than fine

[vast yoke]

i like shivs on despo because throwing knife is a fun resource to play with on dual uzis. it helps me from falling asleep

[livid raven]

shiv isn't even a jack of all

[tropic crag]

shivs are not a jack of all trades weapon tbh, at all

[livid raven]

like, it's too fast to be considered that

[vast wigeon]

What is shiv bad against

[rotund agate]

btw, should I stick with Iron Riders and deal with the lack of matching cosmetics, or should I swap to Tread Lightlies and have more options because the Tread Lightlies have the same yellow-and-black stripes thing as some other cosmetics...?

[livid raven]

with no investment it has difficulties against uhhh

hordes

armor

[vast wigeon]

And don't say ragers, with the dodge trait you can chain dodges to be invincible vs ragers

[tropic crag]

its not what its bad against, if you use that metric then all things become mush... its what its weak points are compared to its OWN strongpoints

[vast yoke]

with no investment the only thing thats rlly good is tax tbh

and i guess cknife 6 doesnt struggle with a few poxwalkers

[tropic crag]

shivs are overtuned on an attack speed class, their design is not jack of all trades, their practical use becomes that but wasn't the design

[vast wigeon]

Invest in each weapon equally then obviously it's no competition, tacax

[lapis raft]

shivs are knife with worse boss damage and better clear

and better special

pretty simple

[tropic crag]

honestly if you approach tide games like this they become very small and boring lol

[vast yoke]

shivs have worse clear without cleave talent tho

so i sometimes run cknife on despo builds. or i would if despo wasnt boring

[vast wigeon]

Not my fault fatshark made a mobile weapon good against everything and able to stagger everything

If you're going to argue crowbar and it's virtues my advice is to "not do that"

[tropic crag]

again approaching any game like this makes them very small and boring

[vast wigeon]

Want to play it for flavor? Fine, but ignoring the gold standards is just wilful ignorance

[vast yoke]

I wonder if Refined Lethality on bonesaw works with boom bringer

[tropic crag]

i said it was fine, pretty good... you're the one pretending like i'm ignoring things. again you're making this conversation small and boring

[lapis raft]

people optimizing fun out of games is saying for a reason, you would be surprised how common this is

[vast wigeon]

Yeah not my problem, if you have an issue with that, take it up with literally every psyker using the bb flamethrower

[lapis raft]

and its valid way to play games too

[tropic crag]

if all we talk about is the meta stuff then we need to stop talking because we've already talked it to death

[mighty belfry]

Tbh that special makes shivs not so far off in boss killing

[tropic crag]

if you answered every talk about the merits of any weapon with "but the meta is this" then you are making the game smaller and more boring for everyone

[mighty belfry]

Since the toxin does so much sustained damage.

[vast wigeon]

Not really I'm not the one counter arguing with conditions like "no investment" or "it's good if you don't compare it to anything else" or whatever

[tropic crag]

so you think crowbar can't do aurics?

[eager reef]

i think the shivs are pretty fun and use them alot

[lapis raft]

yea but then needler :d and most shiv primary builds are using needler anyway

[vast wigeon]

Incorrect , fatshark evaluates usage

[lapis raft]

whcih also applies to knife ofc

[vast wigeon]

So by all means, be a tryhard so fatshark does something about it

[lapis raft]

but i value knife very highly for crushers over shivs its so much better at those

but ofc knife with rampage or just the cleave talent is not even remotely comparable for hordes to shivs so ye downsides

[vast wigeon]

Sure it can. Any weapon can. But I'm not going to kill a crusher in 10 heavy, heavy sword strikes and wilfully lie to others that I recommend it in. Aurics

[lapis raft]

hv also works much better with shivs etc

[tropic crag]

where did i recommend anything? first you're saying that i was ignoring things and now you're saying i was telling people to use crowbar over other things

[vague kayak]

i think the best part about shivs is how little you have to invest into them, i run them on my ranged build with barely any melee spec and they still wipe

[lapis raft]

i do like knife a lot on crate builds a lot more than shivs tho where you dont rly have access to many things that makes shivs actually dumb

[vast wigeon]

Knife synergizes with hivescum's exceptional stamina too

[lapis raft]

yea the recovery for the push attack being so fast is so nice

[vast wigeon]

I'm saying the implications need not be there, just because you can make it work, doesn't mean it's as good as you make it sound

[tropic crag]

i hated the chainsword since launch until recently, i realized it was because of the delay after the push attack kept messing me up

[vast wigeon]

See: veterans pre-rework

[tropic crag]

good means adequate friend, good does not mean "excels", good means "does the job"

[vast wigeon]

Or pre-tax zealot too

[vast wigeon]

Good is good, adequate is adequate

[lapis raft]

hard to like other push attacks after london style knife :d

[vast wigeon]

Adequate in a nutshell

The horror

[vast yoke]

fuck it i have a godroll dclaw

what should i run on it (obv wont take it to h40)

[tropic crag]

they are actually interchangeable in sentences and definition according to most dictionaries... I think as humans we've let "perfect" become the enemy of "good" and as a result we started letting "perfect" mean "good" and we lost the actual meaning of the word

[vast wigeon]

Run it to hadron

Sacrifice it

[vast yoke]

XD

nah im actually gonna unrionically run it on (one) build

[lapis raft]

rampage dclaw is probs pretty solid with needler on top right

[vast yoke]

my syringe pistol despo build, i literally just want the parry thats it

[lapis raft]

ah lol, i guess tahts a reason too

[tropic crag]

for the past like 8 years people have been fighting me in tide discords because i call things "good" to mean "adequate for the job" and they act like i'm saying something is amazing

and they get so mad that i'm calling something off meta "good"

[vast yoke]

im just thinking of making a rampage build with it to meme on aurics

[vague kayak]

every weapon in the game is good

[vast wigeon]

Ok so when I go to Arby's chat and say "Arby's stick is adequate" they'll not argue when I double back and say" actually because adequate and good are the same thing you don't need to argue with me because most dictionaries say so"

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-parry-gwyn-boss-gif-19051216

[vast yoke]

krourk twin linked

[tropic crag]

i've had this talk in arby chat, yes they understood me after i explained

[vast wigeon]

Bro adequate is ugly AF compare to saying something is good

[tropic crag]

thats actually why we use the word good mostly now

[lapis raft]

just say its playable thats what normal ppl do smh

[vast wigeon]

I'm gonna be at the marriage podium and I'm going to exchange vows and say to my lover, "you're adequate"

[tropic crag]

i usually say it in the same sentence that i say its good

[vast wigeon]

And somehow they will not be offended

[tropic crag]

saying "you're good" in that situation would also cause a fight

[vast yoke]

i used it in multiple havoc missions and just had 0 reason to pull out melee besides

1. dog in front of me
2. oh a mutant, sure i'll melee it i guess
   so deadass dclaw might be the best in slot purely for the parry lmao

[lapis raft]

you're playable

[tropic crag]

this would get a high five tbh

[vague kayak]

i’d say every weapon is better than just playable like the helbore is way off meta but it’s still super fun and works

[vast yoke]

omg

[vast wigeon]

Ok let me clarify then, crowbar is a freaking joke and hey need to give it non shit blessings

[vast yoke]

😭

the helbore IS meta

[vast wigeon]

It's still better than shovel though

[vast yoke]

???

[icy scaffold]

Helbore is good tho

[vast yoke]

shovel is great what

at least mk1 is

[tropic crag]

yeah theres very few truly mediocre weapons if you put the time into the weapon, some weapons are clearly better but letting that dicate your choices can lead to a more boring game

[lapis raft]

shovel has uncanny so its automatically better than crowbar

[vast wigeon]

I used to think this

[lapis raft]

also more style

[tropic crag]

yeah shovel is actually strong, basically all shovels, human and oggy

[vague kayak]

yeah i basically main vet but i hate the plasma gun so i’ve literally never used it for more than 1-2 games

[vast yoke]

also an incredibly fucked up special

[vast wigeon]

And then I got killed by the meta and the lack of me killing anything showed that

[icy scaffold]

When power shovel

[vast yoke]

instastagger good

[vast wigeon]

It's not my fault fatshark implementd underpowered, underperforming stuff

Which is very relevant in histg

[vast yoke]

well helbore is incredibly good rn, you might've not played it since it got buffed a few months back

[tropic crag]

plasma gun doesn't vibe well with how i play so i end up doing better with things like the heavy las pistol

[vague kayak]

since when? lmao everyone always bullies me for picking it

[vast wigeon]

I'm not gonna sit here and have a dark souls boss fight for every single crusher bruv

[vast yoke]

who tf do you play with 😭 it is considered havoc meta

[hardy maple]

what the sigma

[lapis raft]

im pretty sure if scum got shovel it would actually be pretty busted :d

you get all the cleave

[icy scaffold]

Pretty sure all the las weapons are Havoc 40’able atm

[main wagon]

Helbore fucks heavy. Not sure when it became a monster but it’s basically a sidegrade plasma with infinite ammo

[lapis raft]

with rest of the good stuff

[vast yoke]

scum shovel would be fucked up holy shit

[vast wigeon]

Hive scum bolt gun

[vast yoke]

scum kickback

[tropic crag]

hitting something a couple more times isn't turning it into a dark souls fight unless you're not comfortable engaging in fighting that enemy

[vast wigeon]

Instant best weapon in the game for all the wrong reasons

[vast wigeon]

Compare shovel ttk to shiv ttk to knife ttk for a crusher

[main wagon]

PLEASE GIVE ME A THUMPER

[vast wigeon]

Also crowbar ofc. And the. The crowbar blessings

[dim moth]

has been a viable option for a while now, but especially the last buff it got during the mortis trials update

was very good for it

[vast wigeon]

What in God's name are those blessings

[dim moth]

made it a lot more comfortable to use

[main wagon]

I CAN BE TRUSTED WITH EXPLOSIVE MUNITIONS

[tropic crag]

yeah it doesn't turn it into a dark souls fight unless you can't fight crushers when they have time to attack back lol

[dim moth]

which shovel?

vet, ogryn? folding non-folding?

[vast wigeon]

Right, because in the time it takes to regret your choices a vet with a krak solves your problem

[tropic crag]

even the worst shovels have decent ttk for carapace tbh

[vast wigeon]

I think the OG is best

[vast yoke]

shovels gimmick is that its insanely safe, instastagger, magnifies bleed thru uncanny (which matters since 2 bleed per strike kinda stacks up with mk1s combos)

[vast wigeon]

I'm oof on literally all the others

[dim moth]

I like the vet Mk3 shove

blue folding boy

[vast yoke]

i mean instastagger alone is fucked

[tropic crag]

so the problem is that you didn't get credit for the one shot?

[vast yoke]

my gf runs that one a lot

i like mk1s special too much tho

[vast wigeon]

No the problem is the ttk is so bad someone else it going to kill it no matter what I do

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/smack-rick-grimes-shovel-season1-gif-14559596

[tropic crag]

its just a comfy weapon, no matter how bad the situation the shovel can get you out of it with minimal damage taken

[vast wigeon]

If you find that satisfying good for you

[tropic crag]

so the problem is that you aren't getting the green circles?

[vast wigeon]

What are you arguing here. That playing well and performing well is not a good thing?

[vast yoke]

knife also kinda dookie clear for vet compared to shovel tbh

it only really becomes crazy on zealot

[vast wigeon]

Self improvement is everything to me. If you want to be mediocre that's clearly an idealogical schism not worth arguing

[tropic crag]

i was originally simply saying that the crowbar isn't trash by saying it was good. I was then accused of claiming it was better than other weapons lol, then accused of telling people to use it... now i'm just wasting your time by responding with things while i eat my hamburger

[vast yoke]

potato is either ragebaiting or schizophrenic, call it

[vast wigeon]

I think the problem with vet is shredder nade exists for knife which is aight

[dim moth]

shovel isn't really what I'd consider a mediocre weapon

not as good as the top tiers sure

but like

it do things

[tropic crag]

its comfortably above average

[vast yoke]

what difficulty do you play on lmao

[zealous ravine]

shovel is definitely one of the weapons in the game warhammer darktide tbh

[livid raven]

Crowbar wishes it could clean shovel's shoes

[vast wigeon]

Right but it's not good, I shouldn't need to smack things upwards of 20 times just to maybe not kill them

[eager reef]

i like crowbar but idk it feels like im missign something about iut

[zealous ravine]

i defo like crowbar 10x more than shovel

[vague kayak]

crowbar feels so weak even tho it performs well

[tropic crag]

you probably need to learn attack chains and mixups... you can't spam with shovel... there are spam weapons and non spam weapons, shovel is a mixup weapon, learn the ins to different combo starts and where and how to loop combos

[zealous ravine]

even though crowbar is quite clunky

[vast wigeon]

5 or havoc it doesn't matter, knife is either good spamming charged attacks or supplemented by a shredder

[fallen stone]

I lov crippling crushers

[vague kayak]

the can opener mode is good but apart from that it just feels like you’re slapping them

[livid raven]

But it is a spam weapon

[lapis raft]

crowbar is mostly just carried by scum tho not the other way around

[tropic crag]

if you're talking about crowbar then bring melee support in your build and your ttk will go way down

[dim moth]

I really don't know what to tell you about this shovel man

[tropic crag]

you can spam shovel but its really not the best way to play it tbh, thats just what most people do because compared to vt2 most people don't understand combo mixups on the fly and never practice them in this game

[eager reef]

side note but i do not like saw

[fallen stone]

Who hurt you

[tropic crag]

i love the saw but i 100% get why some people hate it, its a weird weapon

[livid raven]

But the shovel has the easiest combos that don't actually mix

[zealous ravine]

saw is definitely the potential weapon

could be the coolest thing ever but it just isnt

[eager reef]

probably my most disliked weapon in the came

[tropic crag]

yeah which is why not learning them is so bad, its a fundemental weapon

[vast wigeon]

Saw, now that's a weapon that doesn't "need" specialization

Or skill investment

[livid raven]

I don't get it

It's just L spam for single target and H spam for hordes

[tropic crag]

i'd argue it only shines when you do put in investment, but at this point i'm just assuming you're trolling lol

[lapis raft]

saw just needs to have its mobility buffed and then it would be good i think

[zealous ravine]

its mobility is fine for me

[livid raven]

Unless you mean the folding shovel

[vast wigeon]

A weapon that applies poison attacks, hits fast, and has a solid high damage natty heavy by design doesn't need investment

[eager reef]

idk i cant figure it out, no matter what i do it just feels bad

[zealous ravine]

im used to way less mobile weapons

[tropic crag]

i do the opposite kind of, my hordes is heavies and lights and my single target tends to be heavies

[vast wigeon]

And it naturally synergiEss with stimm cd

[lapis raft]

yea but the weapons that have similar mobility are quite a bit more powerful

[livid raven]

But the heavies are horizontal slashes

[lapis raft]

and its just small ass cleaver idk why is its mobility so bad

[zealous ravine]

defo

[vast wigeon]

If you think being reasonable and playing to the meta are "trolling" look at yourself, you troll so effortlessly

[livid raven]

Is this mk2 shovel

[tropic crag]

but when it has skill investment its actually one of the best weapons in the game... according to your own arguments above its not your fault that FS made the weapon scale so hard with any bonuses. So stop backpeddling on your old takes

[zealous ravine]

one of my problems with the saw is that its attacks dont have as much weight as they should

[vast wigeon]

All those nappys you have to carry

[main wagon]

Feels like I’m swinging it in a dream

[zealous ravine]

seer reference omg

[tropic crag]

the longer i've played it the more the "feel" of the weapon has felt more correct... but maybe its just me being dumb

[main wagon]

Which the psyker might have words about

[zealous ravine]

but yeah it does just kinda slide off enemies

[vast wigeon]

So what if it's good with skill investment, how does me saying it does solidly without investment have any bearing on your belief

[tropic crag]

its because its not that sharp it only cuts cuts when you add a drag onto it

[tropic crag]

oh so now the crowbar is good?

[zealous ravine]

the drag is also way too smoth sadly

[vast wigeon]

No lol crowbar sucks without and without investment

Compared to the tacax or the shovel

[tropic crag]

what difficulty do you play on? i saw someone ask before, i can't tell if you're on heresy or only havoc

[zealous ravine]

crowbar is defo very clunky

[vast wigeon]

But without question out of the box no investment the nature of the poison makes the cleaver not bad

Bro if I stuck to d3/4 the crowbar would be godly

Which all the more makes me suspicious of your reverence for it

[tropic crag]

thats the biggest issue with it tbh, the special attack doesn't flow "right" and some of the combos feel bad

[eager reef]

@tropic crag what are you runnning on saw?

[main wagon]

On the topic of “weapons that require investment…”

[zealous ravine]

i wish the heavy crowbar special attacks had the same latch time as the light ones

same windup though

[vast wigeon]

"how dare he chase green circles with meta weapons, I'm going to accuse him of playing on d3/4" lmao

[tropic crag]

i keep changing it because i'm just testing all the nodes but i'll post a picture thats close to what i'm using but not actually it (my current build is testing if cleave is even worth bringing in auric and the one i'll post is me without it as part of the test)

[tropic crag]

straight down before this point mostly, couple of bonus nodes on rampage, but this is where most of the points are... like i said this is the test build with zero cleave

but the main structure is what i mostly run on bonesaw

def not meta and some nodes are not really ideal

and i'm a weirdo that takes like the wind at all times because i like the extra angle and the zero stam sprint dodging

[mighty belfry]

I'm sorry but am I seeing shovel slander

Or is the reading comprehension devil striking once more

[vast wigeon]

Yeah I'm not a fan of folding shovel

[mighty belfry]

What about mk1

[main wagon]

That’s why you use the Mk1, silly

There is only one shovel

[dim moth]

Yeah them not having stagger maes them real awkward

[vast wigeon]

OG big fan

[dim moth]

Mk VII is just bad

Mk 3 on veteran is good

[vast wigeon]

The on demand shovel stagger stab is clutch

[vague kayak]

why’s the blue folding shovel better than the green one?

[tropic crag]

? thats not what i meant, i was trying to figure out where your logic was coming from, because you have some takes that seem like logic that would stem from playing in heresy and some that would stem from playing too much havoc. I was asking to try to understand your logic better not to accuse you of anything

[dim moth]

Push attack-light-light is good horde clear

and just folding heavy for single target

[dim moth]

It's not

[mighty belfry]

I've got my eye on you.

[mighty belfry]

It's not tbh

[dim moth]

Green one is the not-folding shovel and it's generally considered the best one

[vast wigeon]

Overhead power attack sucks vs cleaving heavy

[mighty belfry]

Wot. Green one is one of the folding shovels

[vague kayak]

i thought green was the medium one

the folding one

[mighty belfry]

Mk3. Mk1 is the wooden handled, Grey end shovel that doesn't fold

[dim moth]

folding shovels are brown/blue

[vast wigeon]

Crowbar formchange should be an attack

Same for folding shovel, change my mind

[narrow dagger]

yo muckas do you play havoc as scum

[mighty belfry]

Wait am I bugging because mk1 is not green

It kinda breaks the color coding that marks usually have tbh

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[dim moth]

If you use weapon customization mod without a camo pattern Mk1 is green xd

[vague kayak]

isn’t it always blue-weak fast, green-medium, brown-strong heavy

[dim moth]

UIt's the base color it's just its model doesn't show it anywhere

[dim moth]

Nope

That was a coincidence apparently and fatshark never thought to make it official

[narrow dagger]

well i was thinkin about stop playing havoc so i can play scum as much as i want and not facing 100 red crushers. is it smart to do that?

[mighty belfry]

Just bring a needle pistol lol

[narrow dagger]

i cant join lobbies as scum .d

[mighty belfry]

Oh right. People still unironically think scum is bad for Havoc because the sloptubers said so

[zealous ravine]

i mean the sloptubers said 4 hive scum was bad for havoc

[narrow dagger]

yea bcz of that i should play ogryn or some shit to play havoc

[mighty belfry]

When it's in fact one of the strongest classes for it right now, especially with rotten armor.

[main wagon]

I wear my Havoc 35 insignia and they still sleep on me

Road to Poxbreaker

[narrow dagger]

spoi alert. still no.

[main wagon]

Yeah but at least it makes me feel better

[narrow dagger]

well people trust true survivors more than poxbreakers lol

its interesting

[main wagon]

I rock Remembrancer because I like purple and most people don’t even know what it’s for lmao

[tropic crag]

i don't trust any titles since they can all be cheesed or gotten in easier ways

[narrow dagger]

not poxbreaker

[main wagon]

True Survivor is the new ASS

[narrow dagger]

1k hours at least

[main wagon]

Although I do want it for the Kung Fury reference

[tropic crag]

can't you get poxbreaker in any difficulty?

[dim moth]

I do feel this a lot frankly

[narrow dagger]

so?

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/david-hasselhoff-kungfu-fight-fierce-comegetme-gif-4065338

[dim moth]

If someone is a true survivor and running the usual "meta" weapons I just assume they're dogshit

And it's usually orrect

[dim moth]

Technically yeah but it would take for goddamn ever if you don't play the highest diffiuclties

[tropic crag]

poxbreaker can be gotten pretty easy in mortis trials, someone who got poxbreaker in mortis trials mostly would be bad on other game modes

[main wagon]

Poxbreaker is at least indicative of playing the game long enough to reasonably understand what you’re doing

[dim moth]

I have been playing since release on and off and I only just got poxbreaker like a month ago

[tropic crag]

mortis trials tbh

[narrow dagger]

trust me its not. best way is aurics or havocs

[dim moth]

That shit does not come quick

[vague kayak]

feels like every other player i know is just casually clearing auric and i’m struggling on damnation

[dim moth]

Yeah Damnation is like that

[tropic crag]

even then poxbreaker doesn't prove anything besides gametime and i've seen some huge gametime players who can't fight a group of poxies

[dim moth]

You get the people who think they're too good for heresy, but are insecure and not willing to play aurics

Teammate quality is at its absolute lowest in Damnation

[main wagon]

It’s not a 100% confirmation that the player is a god but I don’t think anyone is saying that

[candid flare]

Late bc been working but Bungie died because whoever created the tiger engine decided it was the be-all and end-all of engines, got into upper management, and has since insisted on the whole company dying on that hill.

[narrow dagger]

well its good. i cant play aurics cuz its boring and havocs is dogshi.

[tropic crag]

damnation is the new heresy after the difficulty crunch tbh (by this i mean the amount of terrible teams you run into)

[vague kayak]

i play so much heresy cus its the perfect amount of chill for me but i feel like i should still be doing better in damnation cus of how easy i find heresy yknow?

[tropic crag]

i'm saying it silly to try to judge any players using them... i've seen fully decked out fancy title players tank over and over while goofball off meta zero title people absolutly hard carry... i just wait until i see them fight to judge anyone

[narrow dagger]

every title is like that.

but poxbreaker is hardest to get i believe.

[main wagon]

^

[tropic crag]

yeah thats my point, judging people off the titles is overly silly

[main wagon]

Basically that

[vast wigeon]

See thats a fact that I've seen people with a "true level" of 3000 (i have a combined 1500 or something) and they play like shit

[tropic crag]

like the only title i judge is the survivor titles because i know those people are going to be the first to die

[vast wigeon]

At least true survivors know the most valuable skill" how to not die" in truly BS situations

[narrow dagger]

but bcz i dont use true survivor im getting denied everywhere lol

[main wagon]

The worst players I’ve ever seen have been level 1000+ ogryn

[dim moth]

uuuuuuh

[tropic crag]

its the easiest "hard" one to cheat tbh

[dim moth]

no?

not really?

[narrow dagger]

cheesable

[dim moth]

a lot of those "true survivors" the only thing they know how to do in a BS situation is pray that their chorus zealot saves them

[narrow dagger]

lol

[dim moth]

And if they don't have one they die

[tropic crag]

theres a reason the survivor titles are treated as memes

[dim moth]

That's why people run chorus so much

They have no ability to control a situation to prevent it from being a problem and Chorus is ultimately at its best in bad situations that shouldn't happen in the first place

[narrow dagger]

most cracked guys i met used reject title lol

[tropic crag]

gold health is making people worse at the game

[vast wigeon]

Regardless it's the most consistent skill title

[narrow dagger]

nope

[tropic crag]

its usually the folks running off meta stuff dressed either super funny or wearing the default prisoner garbs that are super cracked

[narrow dagger]

lol

[vast wigeon]

Havoc exemplar for instance is no better than "auric storm" or whatever

[tropic crag]

its by far one of the least because of how people got it in mass when it first came out

[narrow dagger]

its the auric storm survivor for havocs lol

[main wagon]

#hivescum-class message Same tbh

[tropic crag]

honestly i don't run titles because i don't want people to think i'm good at the game, i walk off too many cliffs for that

so i always keep all titles off lol

[narrow dagger]

i use da BREAKER cuz i love how it sounds

[tropic crag]

that is a good one tbh

[narrow dagger]

its simple

and sounds cool

[main wagon]

Remembrancer bc I love being purple

I wish Cyber Falcon wasn’t blue

Shit goes hard

[tropic crag]

like i hate clutching because suddenly i have to stop zoning out and actually do things, so if people think they have to carry me i'm alot happier

[mighty belfry]

Tbh Havoc Exemplar tends to be the tell that someone knows what they're doing to me

[main wagon]

I type a lot like a goofball because I have chat block

[mighty belfry]

But others don't see it that way.

[vast wigeon]

Clutching is lame only because the last stand music sucks

[narrow dagger]

btw i experimented on this topic. when i use havoc 40 insignia people accept much more xd.

[vast wigeon]

It's hype in vermintide

[main wagon]

Is Havoc Exem the “reach 40” or “help with 100” one?

[mighty belfry]

100 one

[vast wigeon]

People want to be carried. Can you blame them

[main wagon]

Because I did the latter with noobs in their 20’s lmao

[idle ore]

you can just play100x 10s or smth

[narrow dagger]

then they should let me play scum not ogryn lol

[main wagon]

I just nose dragged them through 24-28’s

[vast wigeon]

Oh bro that sounds so exhausting

[narrow dagger]

but no sloptubers said SCUM IS HARD AND NOT REWARDING. AND ALSO WEAK.

[tropic crag]

its what people who chase titles do, which is why so many of those things aren't a measure of skill but a measure of how much that person values the title

[mighty belfry]

Let's be honest, a lot of people with that title probably don't do that because that's a chore

[main wagon]

I don’t have people that I can actually play high havoc with, so generally if I get the itch to play that mode I’ll go help some newbies

[narrow dagger]

this is the way

[main wagon]

Getting the cosmetics from helping is really nice, I appreciate Obese Fish doing that

[mighty belfry]

Doing 100 low level havocs just sounds like ass to me.

[tropic crag]

like titles don't matter in the same way levels don't matter, playtime never really=skill unless that person is trying to improve

[main wagon]

In the 20’s there’s still some risk

[edgy coral]

Reject always goes hard for me so why bother changing it

[main wagon]

You get the lilun’s looking up at you with starry eyes when you solo a Plogryn + Captain

Immediate wipe beginning of Hourglass or some shit lol

[mighty belfry]

I would run reject more but people really will gatekeep you from havocs for a title

[narrow dagger]

also weekends is doomed to play your levels. was 37 last friday. 29 now. :D

[mighty belfry]

Despite having a clearance level 40 lol

It's stupid.

If maybe we didn't have demotion.

[tropic crag]

bad players being bad, they are saving you time at that point

[idle ore]

the best way to screen people in havoc is to just look at their tree

[mighty belfry]

See but I'm actually okay with that because I just want to play the fucking game.

[main wagon]

I’m sad that my old havoc team had dead weight that they only dropped after I stopped playing

We had multiple true surv runs but the veteran would just die

[mighty belfry]

It's demotion that makes this complicated.

[tropic crag]

you'd be screening the best players accidently tbh

meme builds are the true endgame

[narrow dagger]

party finder is a seperate game

[idle ore]

demotion is necessary

otherwise you just have a bunch of people failing up

[mighty belfry]

It really isnt.

Because the only true reason that failing is an issue is BECAUSE of demotion.

[idle ore]

missions would just not get anywhere then

[mighty belfry]

Do you know how many times I've been demoted because the worst enemy in this game is the servers???

[idle ore]

you'd fail way more often

[tropic crag]

i think the best way to screen in havoc is to simply not... because random people will pop off and random people will have a bad game or day or whatever... so i personally just accept whoever the rare times i do host and people just show me what they got

[mighty belfry]

Okay. That's fine.

[idle ore]

its not fun to get 2 min into a mission and fail

[mighty belfry]

I'm okay with that because there's no actual cost to losing.

[idle ore]

you dont actually get to play the game

[jaunty spire]

Yeah, I've lost way too many havoc ranks because a teammate got disconnected

[lapis raft]

the havoc system is like the worst implementation of pseudo ladder i've seen in a game

[mighty belfry]

Literally had a game that was pretty much a guaranteed w

[tropic crag]

rivals is probably worse tbh

[mighty belfry]

Ruined

[lapis raft]

if they want to pretend its ladder then at least also add quickplay based on you havoc progression

[mighty belfry]

Because the game dced three of us at the same time.

H40 too mind you.

[idle ore]

yea the game stability is bad

[tropic crag]

yeah a match maker based off a range would be super welcome

[jaunty spire]

I wish there was a havoc quickplay so I don't have to parade myself around like a peacock just to get accepted into a team

[mighty belfry]

It's unacceptable that the game insists on a demotion mechanic when even the game can't actually complement it because the stability is as bad as it is.

[tropic crag]

i wonder why i never get crashed but others do, like i fully understand the crashes are real and happen to people but i've never seen a crash since launch on 2 different computers

[vast wigeon]

Literally no reason not to

[idle ore]

for me its mostly mods

[vast wigeon]

By extension fuck the private lobby penances

Stupid and pointless hoops for no reason

[tropic crag]

lol then that isn't game stablity at all

[winter tusk]

As far as I know they've said they won't do anything with power armor as well

[lapis raft]

i get black screen on load every so often with or without mods

[pallid quail]

theres very good reason. its to avoid ppl throwing with garbage meme builds

[lapis raft]

it dissapeared for a while but now its back again

[jaunty spire]

And if the game decides 4 hive scum at once on havoc 40, I say we ball

[vast wigeon]

Meanwhile they let us have these dumbass narrative missions that are dog shit at filling in replacements

[lapis raft]

and its always some rendering of some shit took too long or other bs idk

[pallid quail]

someone was complaining in psyker chat the other day about not gettinng accepted for that exact reason

[idle ore]

like imagine if h40 was quickplay

[lapis raft]

or well the logs are always useless in those cases

[jaunty spire]

Sign me up

[pallid quail]

oh yea i have no idea why they nuked qp matchmaking

[vast wigeon]

So you're admitting those donkeys implemented people bringing in shit builds and playing like assholes

[idle ore]

the mode would be ruined

[mighty belfry]

Let it be.

[vast wigeon]

Just remove the god damn penances lol

[zealous ravine]

this would be so peak

[lapis raft]

why would it be ruined, just add quickplay and keep private parties as well

[pallid quail]

try reading that again

[lapis raft]

and surely if the demotion system is so great

then everyone at havoc 40 is also competent right

[mighty belfry]

Demotion ruins it more because people literally demote for no reason. And often too.

[tropic crag]

he will have his own argument lol

[lapis raft]

because the system so so makes sense

[vast yoke]

blursed be my desperado needle pistol build

[vast wigeon]

No I need to interpret it the way that makes me feel properly ass pained

[lapis raft]

so shouldnt be aproblem with quickplay at all

[jaunty spire]

You have my attention and I'm listening

[mighty belfry]

HAH

[pallid quail]

jfc arby chat is learning how to fuckin count n down here i gotta teach basic reading comprehension

[vast yoke]

(i only use the dclaw for parrying and killing dogs lmao)

[idle ore]

i think most ppl with actual level 40 and not just clearance are pretty good

[tropic crag]

honestly i can see why fs avoided the red whenever i see pictures of the mod, it looks like butt in this uis color scheme

[idle ore]

imo your nameplate shouldd show your actual level and not just clearance

[vast yoke]

its mostly nice for knowing which weps in your stash still need upgrading

[lapis raft]

so do quickplaly matchmaking based on that then

pretty simple

[tropic crag]

oggy's can help tutor them in the counting

[mighty belfry]

...It does?

Homie what mods are you running?

[idle ore]

no it doesnt

it just shows your highest clearance

not what your personal level is

[tropic crag]

yeah i get why people use them, i'm just saying i get why FS avoided the red coloring when i do see it

[main wagon]

I crash every now and then but it’s because of mods

Seldom do I actually die or have a run ruined by having to reconnect

[mighty belfry]

Are you talking about true level or do you just not see a level at all?

[idle ore]

no, im not talking about true level

[vast yoke]

tbh i imagine they probably did intend on adding red weps. hence why all stats cap out on 80% (maybe red upgrades would let you put a single stat to 100% for example) but the idea was likely scrapped

[idle ore]

im talking about your actual havoc level

not your highest clearance

[mighty belfry]

You mean assignment rank then.

[idle ore]

yes, if that wasnt clear

[lapis raft]

i use DumpStatFinder over the red names at home mod as dumpstatfinder recolors red based on dump stats and can just filter out garbage too

so so useful

[mighty belfry]

It was not.

[vast yoke]

--lua-heap-mb-size 2048 in steam launch options basically solves most mod related crashes from my experience

[main wagon]

Yeah that’s what I did a while back

[versed spruce]

Does Desp. refresh from tox kills?

I thought I heard that it didn't

[idle ore]

if you cant tell i meant rank when i said actual level 40 then idk what to tell you

[vast yoke]

only direct kills, not aoe spread. the build uses CDR stim and 4 dependency to have lowest gap between desperados. that said with thick hordes you actually maintain despso with needle pistol for a long time

[tropic crag]

i don't think so, i think the stat cap is the way it is for future proofing any changes to the system, they fully added red weapons to this game already, reds are just oranges that get perfect perk rolls every time... we have that and they give us red weapon skins when you unlock the ablity to to it at will

so FS added true red weapons a while ago

[low harbor]

isn't that just a mod

[tropic crag]

just like people were saying that fs didn't add the promised classes... when they did they just ALSO added in cross class builds on top of the promise

[lapis raft]

well the red recolor is from the game files right just unused same with stuff being named sainted, so they must've actually planned to also show it on the wep at some point i think

[vast yoke]

ive ran this build in havoc a few times, first as a meme, it's actually very viable. my perks are cara% reload speed, blessings run n gun and stripped down

[lapis raft]

and then they probs just did the skins instead which is tad prettier ofc

just not very filterable at glance :d

[tropic crag]

probably very early as art for things like that would have been done well before systems were

[versed spruce]

So even if they die to tox, just the ones you directly needle refresh it?

[main wagon]

Same with weapon customization mod iirc

[vast yoke]

they refresh if the one you HIT dies from pox, but the AOE pox explosion deaths do not count towards it

[versed spruce]

Sounds about right

[vast yoke]

but yeah on havoc i practically never run out of ammo on it, always some elite or special to refill and despo gives you enough longevity for hordes

its very viable :D

[vast wigeon]

I think the 80% is just because fatshark is swedish

Which is to say the game designer and the technical team and the UI team once again failed to be present in the same room

T. Veteran of bitching incessantly about helldivers

[mighty belfry]

Tbh I don't even run pickpocket on tox builds anymore

[vast yoke]

i used to do the same but being able to freely mag dump needle pistol is too good

the only builds i drop pickpocket on are bistol builds because i genuinely couldn't use up its ammo if i tried

[lapis raft]

mag dumping blue mode is 10/10

[mighty belfry]

That's exactly why I don't do it.

[vast wigeon]

Does +AoE on bistol still interact with blitz?

[vast yoke]

yeah atp its probably intended lol

[vast wigeon]

Crazy

[mighty belfry]

It honestly makes for a really boring way to play when all you have to do is just go pew pew on everything

[versed spruce]

It's the one single thing that bistol has uniquely going for it

The ONE

[mighty belfry]

Gunslinger is enough for me tbh

[vast yoke]

eh on h40 its a boon rather than a playstyle but i get wym

[mighty belfry]

Needle pistol is still ridiculously strong even without pickpocket

[vast yoke]

true!

[vast wigeon]

Somehow bistol can synergize with kaboom but shovel can't interact with helbore

[lapis raft]

yea i just ran gunslinger before but dropped riposte and wanted to stay at 90%-ish crit :d

[mighty belfry]

You just have to land your shots and let it do its thing.

[vast wigeon]

Smh eat my disappointment FS

[lapis raft]

for actual normal gameplay gunslinger is plenty for needler just less fun with the aoe mode

[mighty belfry]

You do have to give up something to have pickpocket if you want to rely on melee more tbh

[vast yoke]

FS definitely know abt lethal proximity considering how they didnt nerf its interaction with dogbomb but did nerf punctures

[mighty belfry]

And I like hybriding with tox builds.

[vast yoke]

its probably just intended

just like how falter buffs your ranged weapon in some marginal way

its just a nade buff ig :P

[lapis raft]

yea pathing to pickpocket sucks very much, had to drop jittery for it

[vast yoke]

eh barely. i usually run hypercrit anyway, and if im not then i run triple barrel db

triple barrel db so fun on this class

[mighty belfry]

I don't like hypercrit because I like blackouts

Actual reason I stopped using pickpocket is mainly because I want more melee investment to abuse blackout regen

[lapis raft]

that reminds me i wanted to try hypercrit on knife

but idk what else to drop :d

[vast yoke]

i love blackouts but i only rlly run them on my despo syringe build and tacaxe db build so everything else is a chem nade / bbringer andy

[vast yoke]

show the build

[mighty belfry]

I run into a lot of havoc teams recently that use nades and its kinda awkward honestly

[tropic crag]

i thought you meant the dark missions at first and i was like "people like those?" then i realized you meant the nades everyone loves

[lapis raft]

#hivescum-class message

[vast yoke]

fair enough. i always play with my friends so we always have the "designated grenadier"

[mighty belfry]

I like having a blitz that doesn't require the actual resource

[tropic crag]

99% of the time i use the blitz option that recharges yeah

[vast yoke]

what ranged wep?

[lapis raft]

needler

[vast yoke]

swap mag size for stamina atk speed, node hypercrit, you can prob drop crit tox. i also prefer 15% close ranged damage on dodge over 15% melee damage on initial hit but its preference ig

you could also drop float like a butterfly which is the way i noded my boxcutter build similar to yours

[lapis raft]

yea i would swap the mag for attack speed if taking hypercrit for sure mostly because the mag size is useless :d

[mighty belfry]

I'll be real