hivescum-class

[charred bronze]

it just feels like trash to use

[bronze glade]

we both know that

[tropic crag]

its not tho, just hit the heads

[bronze glade]

it's prob like half the horde clear speed of rashad

cope

[tropic crag]

don't let perfect be the enemy of good

[charred bronze]

there are many other, inferior weapons that are simply more fun.

[fast surge]

Probably less than half rashad

[grand jewel]

fun is subjective

[fast surge]

Like a third of rashad's clear

[bronze glade]

the point is that the weapon doesn't really synergize with vet anywhere near as much as other options

[tropic crag]

it does, but it has the same feedback loop, like i go play pure melee psyker just to use it, i don't use it on the other classes except sometimes vet because its a bit strong on those

[frigid thorn]

What blessings and perks do you run on the Devil's Claws for the Hive scum?

[charred bronze]

sure, but I can kill things dead with other weapons that have better feedback, feel more engaging, and don't have a shit attack rotation where I have to special every three swings

Like I said, I use it on vet, but I don't gotta like it, and I don't

[tropic crag]

yeah i was saying it didn't need to to be a strong weapon on the class, which was my point in responding to someone saying it was the "best in the game", i was just saying it was the weapons and not the class

[bronze glade]

prob flakiac shred/rampage

[frigid thorn]

Was looking at the Hammer of the Emperor guide and running those LOL

[charred bronze]

that's what I was thinking, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss some riposte special nonsense that wasn't obvious

[lapis raft]

the aoe bolt pistol with wep specialist works pretty well for clear on vet ngl

[charred bronze]

no cleave blessing instead of shred?

[tropic crag]

lol with arby shock maul you have to special every other swing, it ruins your muscle memory for a short time when you swap back to normal weapons

[bronze glade]

battering strikes

[bronze glade]

i am NOT a fan of the weapon on vet

crit doesn't apply to AOE

[frigid thorn]

I picked all the cleave skills on the skill tree

[bronze glade]

and you need to expend too much ammo to make use of AOE horde clear

so the AOE really is just a stagger

on HIV none of that is an issue

[tropic crag]

yeah bolt pistols is best used for a sidearm if you're melee focused

[lapis raft]

i mean with wep specialist you rly do not lack ammo and its like 2 shots to clear

[bronze glade]

your DPS is just limited by reload and firerate

[frigid thorn]

I don't know how many I need so picked Battering Strikes, Battering Momentum, Pulverizing Strikes lmao

[charred bronze]

and the riposte? How tight is the timing? Perfect block, or 'push button and if something hits me within a second, I smack it'?

[bronze glade]

weapon spec doesn't give you unlimited ammo like HIV can do tho

and it's still like 90 damage per explosion

[fast surge]

The parry is pretty forgiving

[bronze glade]

so you're not doing shit to things like bruisers unless you spend half the mag

[fast surge]

It's like a full second

[frigid thorn]

I just spam it at ragers and it kills them quick

funnny on bosses too

[charred bronze]

attack comes out automatically?

[frigid thorn]

yeah

[charred bronze]

cool

[fast surge]

Yes

[frigid thorn]

its really funny

get hit, PING you slap them

[charred bronze]

what's the difference between the marks?

[frigid thorn]

the attack patterns

MKI is like heavy side sweeps for all the heavies

[bronze glade]

mkvii is the good one

[frigid thorn]

I only really used the MK IV but that was a while ago lol

mk iv is like heavy 1 is an overhead strike, so its easy to just slap people with it

[novel oracle]

Mk4 is the easy one
7 is the good one
1 is awful

[frigid thorn]

I'm gonna have to try and learn the 7

but it looks like the 4 and 7 are clos

[bronze glade]

this is accurate

mkvii has a pretty lit single target combo

[frigid thorn]

oh wow yeah I'm trying it out

the single combo is sick LOL

[dim moth]

Mk VII dclaw gaslighting me into thinking the dclaw is a good weapon 💀

that weapon is so damn fun to use

and just mulches anything short of a crusher

[charred bronze]

that single target combo for 7 seems a little overwrought

[dim moth]

that is the optimal single target route tho

[charred bronze]

hm, I'll give it a legit go at a time when all my synapses are firing correctly

[dim moth]

yeah like that combo on Mk VII dclaw

will kill a havoc 40 crusher

it is wild how much damage it does

[novel oracle]

on scum it defintely hits different during rampage with the rending node

cuz parry ripostes count as heavies

[charred bronze]

I've seen a couple players annihilate using claws, the potential is there

[dim moth]

Mk VII dclaw having such an absurdly high damage single target combo that its bad ADMs just don't matter 💀

crazy weapon to use

very stimulating because of how complex its moveset is

[charred bronze]

yeah, tonight is one of those nights where I'm playing vulturado because holding down left click to win is about my speed at the moment.

but the VII does look super interesting

[tropic crag]

i've decided that the heavy sword is very comfy

[light phoenix]

Question, if we use the Stimm then drop the Stim Crate, do we get double buffs?

I notice if stimm is on cooldown and I deploy Stimm Crate I do not get the Stimm buffs

[bronze glade]

no oduble buffs

for the crate to give stimm buffs, the stimm must be available

though i think there's a bug where you can just walk in and out of the stimm crate AOE and it'll give the buff anyway

even when the stimm isn't available

[charred bronze]

this is just an auric event mission, and I'm just a middling player, but desperado/vulture is dead simple to play well after you get the necessary talents.

scum's good

[real python]

class is weak

[supple torrent]

Just curious does nimble affect slide dodging in anyway?

[split lagoon]

Guys, can anyone link me the most popular/optimized stimm-chem build?

[split lagoon]

Tha's beautiful

But not sure about the amongus right leg node and the line between those lines in the middle of the path and the line

[mint pendant]

is it true that hivescum weak late game?

[mighty belfry]

it's not

[fallen arrow]

Absolutely not

[mint pendant]

or is that nerds who dont know how to play it propaganda

okay cool cool

so all classes are viable then

[mighty belfry]

ranged scum is pretty much broken

[bronze glade]

only for some players

[supple torrent]

I'll be honest. You can randomly just die

[mighty belfry]

toxin scum is also crazy good but at least you're not immune to most damage

[fallen arrow]

Scum is definitely not as immediately strong as, say, Arbites especially when compared to release

But yeah its still very strong in the right hands, particularly Desperado Scum

[mint pendant]

im playing Arbites right now, and was wondering if i should buy the hive dlc

[mighty belfry]

melee scum is the only one that seems like a black sheep and it's honestly because it's the more balanced scum out of the three

[real python]

melee is nuts. just dodge and win

[mint pendant]

then again i should level up a class like Zealot or something

[fallen arrow]

If you're still new to the game: probably wait til its on sale since if you get hit, you WILL feel it alot more than other classes (maybe except psyker). That said, if it all vibes with you from what you've seen, no reason why not. Just remember to dodge EVERYTHING

[unique spire]

Hive Ganger is only for pros

[mighty belfry]

here's the reason people think scum is weak

it's not a beginner friendly class

[dreamy portal]

feel like askin', what's everyone's favorite weapons for hive scum so far?

[mint pendant]

okay noted

[real python]

you need da movement

[mint pendant]

thanks guys

[mighty belfry]

even ranged scum if you're just starting off, will trip you up because you need to know the movement in this game

[fallen arrow]

I enjoy Crowbar, even if its not the strongest

[toxic dagger]

mostly this

[dreamy portal]

i'm gonna say each of the melees unique to hive scum actually feel pretty damn great, to be honest. hard to pick a favorite, but i like the quirks of the bone saw and shivs most.

[toxic dagger]

scum is harder to play than the other classes but can also deal more dmg

[fallen arrow]

Personally, I find it that if I use Desperado, I become dumber and I allow enemies to flank my ass

[fiery tulip]

Agreed. Similar opinion with Zealot or Veteran's melee weapons. Scum's shivs may objectively be one of their strongest, and while they are fun, I just find the crowbar genuinely satisfying especially with the special attack lolo

[fallen arrow]

Same

I like the secondary, its very visceral

[mighty belfry]

We all know the best vet weapon is shovel.

[dreamy portal]

deffinately, scum's hardest 1 to get around, with arbies bein' the easiest class to play.

[fiery tulip]

Yes

[lapis raft]

i just ran combat blade on vet then zealot and now im running it on scum :d

[fiery tulip]

May not be the strongest Vet melee. Counterpoint: Shovel

[fallen arrow]

Does anyone still use the foldable shovels on Vet, or is it just the default one?

[bronze glade]

mk3 foldable's pretty good

[fallen arrow]

Wonder why I dont see 'em as often

[dreamy portal]

oh yeah, doesn't vet have 2 different types of shovel now?

[mighty belfry]

Default. Foldables kinda fell off a little with the hp change. Mk3's okay but, Mk1 is overall just more reliable

[dreamy portal]

with their own marks

[fallen arrow]

I thought they had 3 like Ogryn?

[fallen arrow]

I see I see

[fiery tulip]

Here's a question, as I'm genuinely curious on everyone's opinions about the Hive Scum's voices. Who is your favorite Personality for them?

[mighty belfry]

Fem Bounty Hunter

[dreamy portal]

Ogryn has 3? Sure you arn't talkin' about marks?

[mighty belfry]

I'm all about the cold and calculated vibe.

[dreamy portal]

My scum's got the outlaw personality

[fallen arrow]

Im talking about marks yeah

[fiery tulip]

Fem BH is pretty good, tbf. It's what I'm using myself atm, after using Anarchist for a long while

[fallen arrow]

Im using Female Outlaw, and while I like her, I REALLY enjoy the male voices alot

[dreamy portal]

Well i was talkin' about seperate shovels, like i believe vet has from the standard to the krieg style that comes without the folding head.

Least i'm sure vet has a unique shovel weapon

[fallen arrow]

I thought the foldable was also just a mark for the default latrine shovel

[dreamy portal]

I'd have to check my self, been a while since last i played was waitin' to get my hands on the hive scum for a while...that and i needed some audio devices to replace my head set for the meantime while i wait for 'em to be repaired. Tv broke and i can't get it to turn on properly, monitar i had to replace it with has no audio capability so i found some speakers, which kinda brings a nostalgia feel.

Now all i need is a logitech mic on a stand and it'll be like i was 12 again...i think

[supple torrent]

fem anarchist is the psycho ive been waiting for

[dreamy portal]

Speakin' of psychos, anyone been feelin' borderlands-y to try and recreate the flaming psycho with the hive scum?

Think you could do with with 1 of those skull masks and a big white mohawk.

[haughty slate]

Male Outlaw is best hive scum. Reminds me of my dear boy Bardin.

[dreamy portal]

From character creation he sounds similar to 1 of the arbites personality. The most chill 1

[gray storm]

My pint sized anarchist mad mike ftw

[dreamy portal]

I just called my guy "buzza"

Be cool though if the hive scum hair colors could also be applied to beards too and we could have a red good enough to pair with a dreadlock and goatee combo.

[gray storm]

I would love that

atm my guy is clean shaven

[dreamy portal]

Ding dong doodley doo, am i right?

[charred bronze]

I've played male bounty hunter and anarchist, and like them both. Leaning toward anarchist now, he's just so enthused

[gray storm]

He has that gustso

[haughty slate]

He reminds me too much of Junkrat

[supple torrent]

ngl I really wish theyd allow scum to use green stimm

[dreamy portal]

Scum can, but he must give up his custom stim

[supple torrent]

no duh

[hybrid oyster]

add a perk to pick up extra stims on top of your custom stim

[charred bronze]

When I play non-scum I grab med stimms to jab scum with it

[hybrid oyster]

lol

[haughty slate]

I just wish running a no-stim build was more viable on scum

it's a cool mechanic but it's really just a gimmick

[supple torrent]

I keep having to tell my teammates that scum players cant use green stimms

[gray storm]

I love steming up my local hive scum

[dreamy portal]

Like arby's dog, right?

[gray storm]

Any arby that is seen without his dog is not to be trusted

[dreamy portal]

Why not?

[gray storm]

Dog is a good boy

[supple torrent]

Clearly spot died in the line of duty. And the Arby refuses to replace her

[haughty slate]

just let me shit out a random stim for myself to use every minute or so... stimm slot machine build would be cool

[jaunty coral]

so this was only a havoc 24, but im really liking the melee build on this class man. So fun - i died once doing the obj a burster fucking killed me as i was doing the tree on hab but keeping up with flame psyker in overall dmg is pretty sweet, is it alot harder in 30+ to play tho?

[dreamy portal]

Like a buncha shake and bake stims, right?

[gray storm]

I feel like an ogryn looking at this

[supple torrent]

what was the melee weapon?

[jaunty coral]

shivs

[supple torrent]

thought so

[jaunty coral]

rampage + right keystone build

[charred bronze]

Which scoreboard plugin issat?

[jaunty coral]

ovenproof

but i have it mixed with some of the og scoreboard parts

[dreamy portal]

Reckon with hivescum added they might consider a competitive mode? Like gangers versus arbies, or gang war?

[drifting heron]

This game would be so horrifically bad in pvp

[woeful hill]

we've seen VT2 versus

[dreamy portal]

I mean i get they're supposed to be allies, but i don't expect criminals to stop doing crime.

[woeful hill]

crime is nothing to a chaos uprising

they'd let crime pass

[low harbor]

@woeful hill do u have havoc and healthbar mods

[woeful hill]

no

I stopped using healthbars like a year ago

[drifting heron]

They can steal everything not nailed down or evil from the moebians

[low harbor]

damn ok

[drifting heron]

And they have a very ready outlet for violence

[dreamy portal]

Very least like a mode with 4 scum versus 1 or 2 arbies.

[drifting heron]

That would be a slaughter

That one arbitrator would just get destroyed

And player class vs player class pvp would be cancerous

[dreamy portal]

Would he? Kinda always felt they're the tankiest class in the game so far.

[drifting heron]

How would they even make it work

[drifting heron]

Chem toxin:

[dreamy portal]

Fair enough.

[drifting heron]

Hit them with 3 needler shots then hide

Or hit them with a rocket

[solid vessel]

PvP in this game would be a bad idea... many games struggle with balancing the classes, I can see that happening here if that happens.

[drifting heron]

If they wanted to do class vs class pvp it would be easier to just make a new game

[low harbor]

even pve balance here is wack lol don't even think abt pvp

[drifting heron]

Primary mechanics in this game are just incompatible with pvp

How would dodging work

[solid vessel]

I mean... you had 4 convicts, now its 5, with one police officer, facing off an entire hoard of cultists, and horrors of the void...

[dreamy portal]

Are there still issues with some of scum's perks by the way?

[hybrid oyster]

well they did it for vermintide, but how would controlling monsterosities/elites/specials be handled

[low harbor]

yea

dt versus also prob wouldn't work that well

[drifting heron]

Poorly

[low harbor]

like

think this way

[drifting heron]

We're too strong for versus to work

[dreamy portal]

I could see sniper being probably the favorite to play for some people.

[low harbor]

veteran press F and now they have wallhacks on the entire chaos faction's players within 50m

[drifting heron]

Sniper players when the enemy dodges

[solid vessel]

with how the game is structured for darktide, you just turn into a beast, eat one of the team members, and spit them off a cliff... yeah that'd be fair

[drifting heron]

Or arb having passive wallhacks

[dreamy portal]

That's even terrible in co-op not gonna lie.

[drifting heron]

Psyker being able to make the entire team immune to 99% of the things they could do

[dreamy portal]

Speaking of psykers does nurgle hate psykers or what?

[drifting heron]

Wdym by that

[solid vessel]

Lore wise?

[dreamy portal]

Just that i don't think i've ever seen a nurgle psyker than mortarion maybe.

[drifting heron]

Then you aren't looking very hard

[dreamy portal]

Probably true.

[hybrid oyster]

the grandfather loves all

[solid vessel]

thats what a demonhost is, I think...

[dreamy portal]

Not nightlords.

[solid vessel]

is a turned psyker

[drifting heron]

The two I can ring off the top of my head are the Malignant Plaguecaster and Typhus

[dreamy portal]

Thought daemon host could be any poor schmuck they put a daemon in.

[drifting heron]

Yes

[dreamy portal]

And a lotta then tend to be cared for as if the pets of inquisitors.

[solid vessel]

y-yeah, but correct me if I'm wrong, aren't psykers more exposed to demonic possession?

[drifting heron]

They are

But the daemonhosts we see aren't the results of random possession

Otherwise they wouldn't be bound as they are

[dreamy portal]

If they think too hard they could explode into a warp portal releasing daemons wherever they are.

[solid vessel]

so, I guess they can become a beast, fleshbag or what ever then?

[hybrid oyster]

no idea, I'm not that deep into 40k lore to know

lol

[solid vessel]

y...yeah which makes my head hurt

[drifting heron]

Beasts are just warp creatures, you don't become those

And anyone can become a chaos spawn

You just need to get a little too corrupted/blessed

[dreamy portal]

Yeah basically. Or hang out too long near enough chaos corruption.

Some people handle it better than others not the thousand sons.

By the way, doesn't khorne technically also use psykers sometimes, just not often?

[drifting heron]

Sorcerers

Theres a small distinction

He uses them to perform rituals for summonings

[hybrid oyster]

thought he hated psykers?

[dreamy portal]

He does.

Cause they don't need weapons to be powerful.

Also what's the difference between sorcerers and psykers? Arn't both born with innate abilities?

[drifting heron]

Sorcerers are generally people who draw power through ritual

[dreamy portal]

Like warlocks?

[drifting heron]

Its a very loose definition

[hallow raft]

warlocks are male witches

demon power

[dreamy portal]

Kinda feel 40k sorcerers could be equated to DnD warlocks if anything. Cause from how i understand it they are basically consorting daemons for power.

You know playin' hive scum kinda does make me hope someone makes a competitive 40k game between the lex and lex breakers.

Maybe an asymetrical game, and have 3 teams between arbites, gangers and a local gene stealer cult, something like that.

Oh, and i also still hope ambulls/ambots might see the dim light of the hives.

[toxic dagger]

No man's land just reinforced my desire for battlefield 40k

Imperial guard vs Traitor guard

[split lagoon]

Yes please

[dreamy portal]

maybe planetside 40k?

[real python]

palestine?

[dreamy portal]

Planetside. You know that asymetrical warfare type shooter where you have 3 factions each with their own quirks? Like terran republic with higher bullet counts and double barrel tanks, new conglomerate with heavy armor and hard-hittin' gear, or vanu sovereignty with their no bullet drop and floaty vehicle made from alien tech?

[real python]

never heard of her

[dreamy portal]

You're fucking with me arn't you?

[real python]

talking about a shitty ass game from 2003 like it's supposed to mean something

[dreamy portal]

Well if it were shitty it wouldn't have gotten a sequel wouldn't it have?

[real python]

in this age of remakes, reboots and sequels. it's a guarantee

[dreamy portal]

I've yet to see gex 4

[real python]

even Knack got a sequel

[dreamy portal]

Yeah, speakin' of knack actually, never even heard of anyone talk about that game before.

[real python]

see and it got a sequel

[dreamy portal]

Like i'm sure i saw advertisements for it, and knew it was a playstation exclusive but i never heard anyone mention it ever.

Other than reviews of course.

Another playstation game i don't hear about often is killzone. Which i still hear more about than knak

Kinda like killzone though, least the couple games i've been tryin' on my vita.

[rich carbon]

how is the Bonesaw meant to be used

im having a really hard time with it

it feels too slow for hordes but not chunky enough for ogryn / monstrosity

am I just doing smthn wrong?

[mighty belfry]

bone saw is a weird case

doesn't really have cleave at all til you invest in it

it is good against ogryn and monstrosities mainly because it's a DoT weapon first and foremost

[split lagoon]

Does this look reasonable for a toxin build?

[split lagoon]

It has the potential to be top but it is not. It's like: "I want to but I can't". Weird weapon, idd.

Still fun tho. Except for the also weird swings

[rich carbon]

how do you make bonesaw cleave properly?

[split lagoon]

I accept suggestions

[rich carbon]

ive heard Shock and Awe is pretty up there

but it doesn't feel very consistent for me

[boreal seal]

shock and awe + decimator works fine. can try swapping with wrath or double dip

[mighty belfry]

Shock and Awe and Deci are the best fit for me

[mighty belfry]

what's the melee weapon

[split lagoon]

shivs, used to go with saw but want to change

[mighty belfry]

I would say switch A Tertium Welcome to Quick and Deadly first off.

Since that buffs all close ranged damage on dodge, including DoTs.

[rich carbon]

what build would y'all reccomend for bonesaw

[split lagoon]

But does it buff melee DoTs too? I mean, applied melee DoTs

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

Oh and what's the ranged

[split lagoon]

That's cool, makes no sense because it is meant for ranged but nice

[split lagoon]

Needle

[mighty belfry]

Lemme show you how I would pull this one off.

[fiery tulip]

The relic blade goblin shall offer her wisdom

[rich carbon]

yknow what Relic Blade Goblin sounds trustworthy enough, whats ur favorite hivescum build

relic blade is my favorite melee in the game so surely it'll be good lol

[mighty belfry]

toxin build

If you prefer, you could go for the extra clip size and go straight down to pickpocket but i prefer some melee investment

But I've been running that in Havoc recently

Needle pistol is dumb strong lol

[split lagoon]

Haven't tried havoc on my scum yet.

Isn't the sweet spot worth?

[fiery tulip]

What perks/blessing do you use on it?

[mighty belfry]

Not really since 25% weakspot damage is not that significant.

I could see it being worth on a proper melee build

[split lagoon]

Really? Kinda trap perk then

[mighty belfry]

Yes. Especially with how its calculated and how it's not really what most would think it is at first glance

[split lagoon]

I'm mostly going melee and leave the needle gun to take down bosses and annoying packs if I have to clutch

And about the stimm? I'm not sure if it's worth the short cd stimm spam or going full path

[mighty belfry]

In that case, you could try to take off Pickpocket and Hypercrit tbh and put that into A Tertium Welcome and Hyperviolence instead

[ornate fiber]

I would always for the fourth chem dep node if you're gonna use stimm supply

[mighty belfry]

I don't really think it's worth it.

[ornate fiber]

if you spent the points on the other chem dep nodes, its worth it

[mighty belfry]

Not enough for the extra point investment if there's other things that seem like they'll help me more.

Hive Scum has a lot of competitive nodes

[ornate fiber]

I'd drop battering strikes, because you already have a chaff clearer with toxin

keep the shivs for singular targets

[mighty belfry]

You'd be surprised how much I actually intertwine melee with ranged with this build

[split lagoon]

Battering is pretty good imo

[mighty belfry]

Shoot some toxin in horde, pull shivs and melee through to propogate the dots faster.

[ornate fiber]

Its very good, but I would argue its not as needed here since I'm assuming this is a needler build

[mighty belfry]

I think it's more worth having that cleave in those situations than the extra stack imho

[ornate fiber]

meanwhile, the fourth chem dep node means: +5% more crit, 5% more thoughness dmg reduction, and 10% CDR

[split lagoon]

Not really, not in my case, no. I'm actually making a melee-toxin build

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. That's not really much for a full point in my opinion.

[split lagoon]

I use needler only to take down monstrosities, annoying gunners and basically sniping disablers

[ornate fiber]

if you are making a melee toxin build, I'd drop stimm supply, then

[mighty belfry]

You have a ton of crit chance already. 5% toughness DR and 10% CDR aren't really something I feel all that much.

[ornate fiber]

Drop stimm supply, grab rampage, dont pick up the fourth chem dep node

[broken moss]

stim supply is shit

[ornate fiber]

you'll have very good upkeep on rampage with 3 nodes of chem dep, and your melee with shivs will be great

Yeah, stimm supply is honestly pretty underwhelming

[split lagoon]

Stimm supply is fun, probably not the best but it's ok

[broken moss]

you sac your ult

to give your stim to allies

[mighty belfry]

I honestly prefer stimm supply over the other two if I'll be real

[broken moss]

if that suits your goal then its great. but for your personal performance, its shit

[ornate fiber]

I don't. Stimm supply is weird to use, and the only good thing about it is that it makes keeping your chem dep stacks very easy

[mighty belfry]

I just hate the animation bug

But, supply scum honestly loves having higher density, I'll say that

[ornate fiber]

be it in auric or havoc, with randoms, people genuinely do not go for the buffs you give

[fiery tulip]

Stimm Supply does something the other classes don’t. Desperado is similar to something Vet has, but with infinite ammo. Rampage is similar to Zealot and Arby both. I don’t use Stimm Supply because it doesn’t feel great, but I love the idea of it a lot more.

[broken moss]

proper built stims with sample collector and u wont be running out of chem dep. but, honestly, i think chem dep kinda shit too. but better than stim supply. i just dont like losing adrenalines buffs

[ornate fiber]

the fact you have to spend a node so you dont have to stand still in it like an idiot is insane

[broken moss]

i think if ur duo with a nuncio arbites you can make use of it that way

[split lagoon]

Does toxic renewal works if the target dies from the DoT?

[broken moss]

bout the only situation i can imagine wanting to keep it on the ground

[ornate fiber]

Nuncio arbites is similar, but at least it gives great buffs and has a larger radius

[mighty belfry]

chem dep with a stimm with CDR is actually pretty good if i'll be honest

[ornate fiber]

stimm supply's aoe is so small it's ridiculous

[mighty belfry]

but that's more so because of a bug

[broken moss]

ijs u can put it down in the same spot as the nuncio and just giga buff the nuncio aoe

still wouldnt take it over rampage tho but thats me

[ornate fiber]

i prefer stimm supply because crits on scum are awesome, and chem dep gives you 15% for free

[split lagoon]

I don't really think stimm supply is thaaaat bad, tbh. Not the best? Right, but you can perfectly do H40 and be perfectly fine and squeeze some numbers

[ornate fiber]

if adrenaline gave crits, i'd pick it up more often

[broken moss]

i dont think 15% is going to make or break your build tho. and since ur hitting a LOT slower, i think the dps would be the same at best

[ornate fiber]

also, chem dep is globel stats, so your ranged weapons benefits from it too

[mighty belfry]

I usually squeeze numbers close to a purge psyker with stimm supply

People really underestimate how strong having higher attack speed with the needle pistol actually is

[split lagoon]

Ofc, I've seen stimm hscums doing insane loads of dmg in H40. basically removing every single living thing on the surface

[ornate fiber]

honestly, toxin scum is the weakest of the three builds, imo

[mighty belfry]

Actually no I outright did outdamage one in one game

[ornate fiber]

Desperado scum clears maps by itself

[mighty belfry]

Yeah but Desperado Scum is legit like

Broken on a level it shouldn't be tbh

[split lagoon]

I HATE desperado scum

[ornate fiber]

Yeah, i've never felt as powerful in the game as playing desperado

[split lagoon]

Not even fun to me

[mighty belfry]

It's honestly kinda boring to me.

[ornate fiber]

idk, I like it, it rewards you for being VERY aggressive

[mighty belfry]

I enjoy this game's melee combat too much to like Desperado.

[split lagoon]

It's shit and I don't mean it sucks, I mean it's lame

[dreamy portal]

Came back to find out y'all were talkin' about the bonesaw.

[split lagoon]

Bonesaw will take the crown, mark my words

I believe in bonesaw supremacy

[ornate fiber]

too late, shivs have already backstabbed bonesaw

[dreamy portal]

I think it's an alright weapon. 2 modes 1 damage over time tox the other adds stacks of brittleness which if i understand correctly makes enemies take more damage, don't it?

[mighty belfry]

I'ma keep it 100 with you

No one really uses the brittleness toxin

[ornate fiber]

Bonesaw is good, but its kinda slow, you really need support on it

[dreamy portal]

What? Not even on monstrosities?

Also, yeah bone saw's pretty damn slow.

[mighty belfry]

I mean, that's like the one use case but at the same time, you also can just spam toxin at it and you're good anyway

Which is what the bone saw is quite literally meant to do

[ornate fiber]

bonesaw guarrantes, with sample collector, that you'll never run out of stimm

[split lagoon]

Swift Endurance with stamina curios and you are good. Bone saw supremacy!

[mighty belfry]

And because the animation to change it is kinda long, it's just awkward.

[ornate fiber]

but yean, pick up cleave, pick up attack speed, cause the bonesaw need it

[dreamy portal]

How about the needle gun? That's kinda a similar case

[mighty belfry]

Pretty much

[dreamy portal]

Plus apparently there's 2 marks which i can't tell the difference with.

[mighty belfry]

Shoot and toxin do damage

[ornate fiber]

One mark is cunningly brutal, while the other is brutally cunning

[mighty belfry]

#hivescum-class message

[tight musk]

Mk VI is better single target in yellow mode, Mk II has better blue mode for horde clear.

[boreal seal]

mk2 splashes toxin when it dies, mk6 has a small aoe stagger

6 has +1 toxin stacks on its blue over 2

[mighty belfry]

Mk2 blue mode is stupid

It's absurdly good

[ornate fiber]

mk2 clears hordes in 3 shots

[dreamy portal]

I just know 1 calls it an explosive mixture, the other calls it something like a dispersal toxin.

[tight musk]

Mk VI is 6 actually.

[boreal seal]

oh 2 and 6

thanks, roman numerals

[mighty belfry]

Mk2 allows DoT propagation that actually gives purge psyker a run for their money.

While also just being a better DoT entirely

Toxin is the anime protagonist of DoTs

[ornate fiber]

also, scum has infinite ammo, so needle gun is always available

[boreal seal]

even without pickpocket, ammo aura is enough

[split lagoon]

What perks do you use on bonesaw, btw?

[ornate fiber]

ammo aura is useless with pickpocket

just grab pickpocket and the crit or melee aura

be selfish

[mighty belfry]

You literally never needing ammo ever is its own resource saver.

[dreamy portal]

Whether it be desperado, gun slinger or that 1 perk that gives you about 20% full ammo if you're below 20% full and kill a special man.

[mighty belfry]

So it's okay to be selfish with pickpocket for auras

And honestly

The other auras do help your team quite a bit actually.

[ornate fiber]

+5 crit is always nice, and +10% melee is fine too

so yeah

[dreamy portal]

Ammo share's pretty handy though.

[ornate fiber]

that psyker will LOVE that crit aura

[mighty belfry]

And veteran

[ornate fiber]

+5% crit, for a flamer staff psyker, is actually huge

[dreamy portal]

Speakin' of flamers was zealout's flamer ever worth usin'

[ornate fiber]

yes

definitely

one of its best weapons

[dreamy portal]

Other than its primary being good for shovin' crowds back.

[ornate fiber]

a zealot and a psyker both using their flamers clears havoc easily

elites groups die instantly

[dreamy portal]

I know psyker with flamer staff can be good for head burstin'

[tight musk]

It can also be good for annihilating endless amounts of heretics.

[dreamy portal]

Kinda what kills flamers for me is the secondary fire mode.

[novel oracle]

you mean the entire reason you use it?

[dreamy portal]

Yeah and the entire reason i use the zealout's flamer is to shoot a stream of fire, which is made annoying when that fire now doesn't knock enemies back and every time you get hit it kinda resets to your guy fiddling a knob.

[tight musk]

Zealot has a talent that gives stun immunity.

[dreamy portal]

Plus it makes you move slow, which with psyker there's at least a blessing to countedact that.

[fiery tulip]

may I introduce you to the superior flamer: big funny inferno staff psyker build

you'll love it

[dreamy portal]

I already know, psyker was the first class i played in darktide.

[fiery tulip]

[novel oracle]

stun immunity negates that (also movement speed on taking any hit at the same time)
burn deals higher dot damage and faster than soulblaze
flamer has insanely high suppression vs the purg staff

yeah theres a blessing to reduce the secondary movement penalty on the staff but youre sacrificng insanely powerful blessings for it when you have a dodge button for free

[dreamy portal]

doesn't dodging reset your charge though?

[novel oracle]

no??

[tight musk]

No?

[dreamy portal]

musta' misremembered then.

[tight musk]

Does dodging interrupt your melee attack chains, or stop you from shooting your guns? No.

[low harbor]

the slowdown immunity is a separate effect (there's 1 talent that gives stun immunity but not slowdown immunity)
also flamer has more than twice the range of inferno staff
otherwise this is correct

[dreamy portal]

been a long time since i played psyker ever since i master ranked all weapons with 'em

[novel oracle]

you and i both know that nearly every player just calls it stun immunity

[tight musk]

It's not about slowdown immunity, it's about this talent.

[dreamy portal]

still need to finish up zealout and then move back to vet for the mastery ranking weapons.

[novel oracle]

twbs gives 2 buffs

stun_immune
slowdown_immune

[low harbor]

this talent's tooltip is misleading a bit

[tight musk]

Maybe one day Fartshart will give full descriptions to talents.

[low harbor]

the stun/slowdown immunity works for both melee & ranged atks
it also doesn't tell u that the move speed bonus triggers on both health and toughness dmg (cuz there're talents in zealot tree that only trigger on health dmg)

in fact all stun immune effects work for both melee & ranged atks (so I don't specify both melee & ranged in my guide)

the tooltip saying melee is just wrong

slowdown specifically refers to the move speed penalty when ur hit by enemies' attacks
it doesn't work for any other move speed penalty effect

[tight musk]

Wouldn't that just be part of the stun effect?

[low harbor]

it isn't actually the same thing

Punishment, notably, gives stun immunity, but not slowdown immunity

[little laurel]

For combat shotgun, what is the special action do?

[tight musk]

Well, I guess it does say "gain Uninterruptible" not "gain stun/slowdown immunity".

Now, the game doesn't really say what Uninterruptible is, but you can guess it means enemies won't interrupt your attacks.

[tight musk]

Load special shell, which is different for every mark.

[low harbor]

it does both uninterruptible and stun immunity

which is again, tooltip being incomplete lol

[low harbor]

and yes these two are diff things too

[tight musk]

Alright, the coding for this game must be some abyss of eldritch horrors that rivals the warp itself, I don't want to know more.

Ignorance is bliss.

[mighty belfry]

[tight musk]

Timothy Zeentch, the changer of code, working tirelessly in the fatshark code mines.

[muted pivot]

How many more days in the event btw?

is it tomorrow inclusive?

[split lagoon]

Does Slippery Customer work against gunners at melee range?

[fast surge]

Against their melee attack

[split lagoon]

Ok, so it isn't similar to the zealot's passive

I guess it's to avoid being killed by autotarget crushers when trying to kite them

[fast surge]

You can still be hit by overheads

Same with VD

[split lagoon]

Can you? I mean, if you're sliding

[fast surge]

Yep

[split lagoon]

Because what's the point, then

[fast surge]

It makes you count as dodging

Enemies will lose tracking, but you can still be hit by shit like overheads

[split lagoon]

But it doesn't dodge overheads

Sounds like a shitty passive now, lmao

[mighty belfry]

It disables the tracking, but you can still be hit by it.

[split lagoon]

If you get between I guess, but if you're being targeted?

I think I'm gonna start passing on this one

[flat mist]

@low harbor Attack speed doesn't change the time required to queue a heavy, right? Eg if you have to hold it for 0.15s minimum that doesn't change?

[flat mist]

It let's you slide away from them incredibly reliably though

[fast surge]

Attack speed affects heavies

[dreamy portal]

I wonder, there any other weapons scum could get too them selves?

[zenith fern]

Dual wield pipes

[fast surge]

You mean more?

Yeah pipes come to mind

Maybe brass knuckles? Would prefer ogryn got them though

[dreamy portal]

Ogryn could get brick fists.

[fast surge]

Dual wield knife/axe

[flat mist]

Pretty sure it only affects the swing not the queue time

[low harbor]

I'm honestly not sure

it reduces the chain time between actions that are affected by "attack speed"

[dreamy portal]

Could kinda imagine if they add a pipe that could work as a mark for the crowbar somehow as a scrap yard blunt.

[final temple]

one typical weapon you see with necromunda artwork are sawn off shotties

and from the same specialist set we could take all kinds of repurposed mining equipment for ogryn weapons. drills and saws

[dreamy portal]

How about hijacked weapons they stole off the assembly line, probably before they were finished?

[final temple]

‘reclaimed’.

I am also holding out for power fists for vets

[dreamy portal]

I could see vet usin' a powerfist.

Lotta imagery of commissars usin' 'em.

Oh, how anout a chain weapon for hive scum?

[fast surge]

Chain shiv

How about

[dreamy portal]

Like a whip made from the busted chain of a chain sword?

[fast surge]

Pointy stick

We still need a polearm

[dreamy portal]

Rebar pike?

Or a pipe pike.

You know 2 of the skins for shivs also turns 'em into pipe shives too.

[fast surge]

Goedendag darktide edition

[dreamy portal]

I'd love that.

Just a club with a heavy metal head on it with a spike ontop?

[fast surge]

Ye

Bonks on the regular attacks, heavies are stabs. Smth like that

[dreamy portal]

Could be made of like a lead pipe, shaped into a club with duct tape as a grip.

Or something, i dunno.

[final temple]

whips, nets, spears, glaives

[dreamy portal]

I just know more games need a good day.

[fast surge]

Even a flail

[dreamy portal]

I wish a game would just add a punt gun every now-and-then

Which i guess darktide here DOES do with the kickback.

You know the big shotguns you'd equip to a boat to go duck hunting with?

And then they banned it cause it was too good..

You think scum could get anything like a chem thrower?

Maybe a squirt gun that shoots acid?

[fast surge]

Grenade launcher that shoots fent grenades

[dreamy portal]

There anything like a fulla auto version of the needle pistol?

Is there a syringer version of the needle pistol?

[fast surge]

No idea

[dreamy portal]

How about a human arm?

[echo python]

There are bolter/bolt pistol + needler combi-weapons, and needle carbines I think

[dreamy portal]

Boltor needler combo weapons?

[echo python]

Yeah

Mostly used by House Escher I think

[dreamy portal]

What do they shoot huge ass sytinges?

[echo python]

No, they're bolters with an underbarrel needle pistol, basically

[dreamy portal]

Rocket propelled needles even?

[echo python]

Sisters of Silence do have automatic needlers

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2d/Combi-Needler%2C_House_Escher.jpg

No no, just a bolter with an ordinary needler attached to it

[dreamy portal]

Bit odd it'd have an under barrel needler.

[echo python]

Escher loves their needlers

[dreamy portal]

Is that for in case you want the target incapacitated?

[grand jewel]

Clan eshin probably does too

[grand jewel]

Or just to kill someone silently

[dreamy portal]

With a boltor?

[echo python]

No, with the needler

[grand jewel]

With the needle gun attached to it

[dreamy portal]

Attached to the boltor.

[grand jewel]

Firing one does not fire the other

[dreamy portal]

Still though why would someone bring a boltor if they were intending for stealth?

[echo python]

Situations change

Why not bring both, so you're prepared for both?

[dreamy portal]

Situations that in the case you're caught you would need a boltor to fight your way out?

[echo python]

Who knows

The point is, would you rather have just a bolter, just a needler, or both?

[dreamy portal]

A big, heavy, and generally loud weapon that shoots small explosives, and will likely splatter whoever they hit all over the room?

[echo python]

I think you're overthinking this too much

[dreamy portal]

I don't think you're thinkin' enough about this.

[echo python]

You have the bolter to do things the needler can't, and the needler to do things the bolter can't

All in one gun! Very cool

[flat mist]

i should've recorded at a higher frame rate (running on a mouldy potato so i usually have it set very low) but this is 65% attack speed vs 8% and the difference is within the margin of error you'd expect at this fps. the frame i stopped at was the last i could capture while still cancelling the heavy for a light. the results are 0.23s and 0.25s respectively.

will test more tomorrow when i have time

[dreamy portal]

I can see it being there to incapacitate someone you need for questioning by darting them, i just don't think you're gonna be sneaking with a gun the size if not twice as big as a blender.

[echo python]

Then don't sneak with it, very simple

Maybe there's an ogryn target, a bolter is a good backup plan in that case

[dreamy portal]

Ok, but from my experience the needler handles 'em well enough with time, which can be faster the more toxins you inject in 'em to account for body mass.

Will say though boltor's real good for handling basically anything, including daemon hosts.

Not as good as the stub revolver on daemonhosts, but it's up there.

I remember shootin' a daemonhost a few times in the face to kill it.

Speakin' of daemonhosts i don't think i've seen them for a while now.

Was there some update i missed that removed daemonhosts, cause i havn't been seein' any.

[flat mist]

ive decimated like 3 this game already

man bosses are a joke with needler + forges bellow

[dreamy portal]

That needle gun certainly does a number on the karnak twins.

[final temple]

maybe it is a reclaimed stalker pattern!

[echo python]

Eversors also use bolt pistol + needle combos

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/6f/ExecPistol.jpg

Toxins against the things that are too tough to hurt with bolt rounds

[blazing cove]

Or quickly dart a whole bunch to sap them all down whilst kiting and focus blasting the biggest one, then the next. Pretty helpful really

[manic wolf]

Id actually use that Needle Pistol tbh

But not the one we got tho 😄

[random shuttle]

Well well well

I didn't know It's Dog Sunday

[echo python]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Kane_%26_Lynch_2_cover.jpg

[leaden lark]

Anyone got a build for stimm supply please?

I have no idea how to build it but I need penances

[delicate basalt]

Tome to scum it out

Also we need more dot weapons

Bonesaw is cool...shit...but cool

[echo python]

Tox-coated whip would be funky, but might be leaning a bit too far towards Escher stuff

[delicate basalt]

Whip... interesting weapon concept yeah

I wonder how it would play out

[echo python]

Hand flamer jury-rigged to puff out a short-ranged cloud of chem tox maybe? But that'd probably be a worse needler

[grand jewel]

probably playing battle for tertium

campaign missions don't have DH

[candid flint]

remember, flamer weapons are in the OP weapon league

infinite cleave chem vapors or whatever would wreck even harder than the pistol

[stark otter]

I don't think new weapons for dlc classes specifically will ever be made

Only ones they'd naturally get like a nade launcher for vet and arb

And probably a gnarly halberd for vet and ganger

[tranquil berry]

Feels like in that situation the arby would have 5 wounds....

[abstract lichen]

Very lore accurate

[leaden lark]

How does hyper critical and sample collector interact?

Do they work

[tight musk]

I think someone posted a clip not too long ago that they do work together.

[tight musk]

I actually had an arbites heal me up in a game recently, I didn't even ask for it.

Kinda sucks that you can't collect stimms at all when using the cartel special tho.

At the same time, I can't say I used stimms all that often on other classes, except the healing one.

[ebon lintel]

How does people already have their Hive Scum at level 30? My arbites is not even 30

[grand jewel]

self report

[livid raven]

they played like 10 hours

it's like 1 level each two games on average

[limber cradle]

I played a lot the first day they came out and hit 30

[tight musk]

Leveling Hive Scum did take slightly longer cause 4 under-leveled scum together in one mission is a recipe for disaster.

[livid raven]

well more like 2 levels each 3 games

[limber cradle]

Idk what the average is

You hit 20 really fast ime

Everything after is a little slow

[exotic temple]

Hs was probably the fastest character I leveled. I still don’t have my arb to 30 but the class didn’t click for me.

[final temple]

It took me longer moreso because of the imbalanced talent distribution back before they switched it up. 4 scum on malice was still inconsequentially fast.

once the defense came online I would even claim it was the fastest overall to level

The longest was Psyker for me. But I leveled that one all the way at launch

[limber cradle]

Idk when scum actually came out but I hit 30 at 3am my time

And promptly sent to bed

[livid raven]

i hit 30 after playing at release and the day after

[hollow shell]

Bruh, it took us like 6hrs to 1-30 our hivescum

[limber cradle]

Yeah, you can just spam campaign twins

[tender forge]

took me 2 days

but I also only played after work

for a couple of hours a day

[leaden lark]

I barely played and I have hive scum at level 30

It takes less than 30 missions to get there

especiall with +30% xp from curios

[ebon lintel]

I played arbites for an enitre week and I am on 28 with 30% curio xp lol

[leaden lark]

You have like 2 missions left to do

until 30

[ebon lintel]

like 4

3

anyway

is Hive scum good

[brave beacon]

hive scum is difrent

[livid raven]

It's great

[leaden lark]

yes

every other answer is a skill issue

[brave beacon]

IMO

gun scum fills the psyker role but with a gun and not magic

melee scum fills a zelot role

suport sucm kinda is its own thing

[astral canyon]

Sucm

[ebon lintel]

but has it made the other classes powercrept?

I like my zealot and psyker

[astral canyon]

It doesnt one shot bosses like zealot can

[brave beacon]

psyker is still good and requested in groups... scum cant bubble

zealot stil is boss dmg kink scum cant one - 2 shot bosses

[astral canyon]

Boss dmg kink

[exotic temple]

I think it’s 6 of one half dozen of another. Hivescum has some overlap with both of those classes but I’d rather have a hive scum zealot psyker than just 3 scum on a team.

[winter galleon]

Idk why jt replied to someone lol

Id rather 2 psyker, zealot, vet

Scum is nice and arguably op in some areas but other classes just bring more overall team utility

[minor mauve]

support scum is very nice i might say

scumport, some would call it

perchance

[winter galleon]

Drug dealer more like

[minor mauve]

true

[astral canyon]

Scort

[winter galleon]

Its mainly why dont see the calls for outright nerfs, needs some retuning for sure to change disruptive playstyle like desperado scum just shooting nonstop the entire game and only using melee for very niche things but overall power level i feel its strong but not better then others at least in high havoc.

[exotic temple]

They bring enough to the table where HS shouldn’t be precluded from teams

[winter galleon]

It can be oppressive in lower levels though where makes other classes not get to play so def some tuning needs done

I dont think any class is bad enough to preclude, if cant clear 40 its a skill issue not a class issue. But if speaking from a meta perspective i dont feel scum fits in. Though def better the current ogrym unfortunately

Poor ogrym

[exotic temple]

I feel like that is just a consideration thing. If I have someone who is melee I’ll go kill the shooters and keep specialists off of them. If someone is ranged I’ll play body guard and keep hordes off of them

[winter galleon]

For sure its really strong and versatile, i dont get why people refuse to bring them other then perception at launch was full of youtubers saying they were shit

Just wouldnt put it in a meta comp

[limber cradle]

I'll take an Og over an Arb normally

It's not for kit tho, mainly the playerbase

[winter galleon]

Thats fair

Tbh majority of og playerbase is worth just for the player

Yhe more the commit to the bit the better player they probably are too

[limber cradle]

Ime the people still playing Og, especially in Havoc, are normally doing it cause they're passionate about the class

That being said the only toxic toxic player I've ever met in Havoc was an Og

[winter galleon]

Sometimes og wake up in bad mood

[exotic temple]

Sounded like he just needed some rashuns

You can’t be yourself on an empty stomach

[toxic dagger]

so funny how the perceived meta in this game is so vulnerable. ogryn was the strongest class after his rework, braindead easy, trivialized the game, yadda yadda, then every other class receives a lil tree shakeup and suddenly he's considered the worst again?

[unreal stirrup]

I mean kinda?

outside taunt and the dodge he don't really have anything that other class can't do and do better

also prework zealot and vet is uh

[limber cradle]

I'm of the opinion it does not matter what you play if you can play.

[dim moth]

this the same current ogryn that has infinite ammo rumbler?

and does this in havoc 40s?

inferno dome psyker, helbore exe veteran

Just because you don't play the strong ogryn playstyle, or don't know what it is does not equate to ogryn being weak

[zealous ravine]

well rumbler moment

[toxic dagger]

do you have the exact build on hand for this, out of curiosity?

[dim moth]

It's probably still in my power DI history I'd have to dig it up

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/always-sunny-in-philadelphia-naked-pics-online-where-disgusting-meme-mac-gif-22972301

[trim wind]

Anytime something is changed or added people think something has to be weak or replaced, regardless if it's true or not

[winged bay]

looks like some healing map

[dim moth]

iirc it was rotten armor+stimms

[winged bay]

8m total damage suggests healing but maybe

[toxic dagger]

previous season rotten armor and bluestim bullshit was the most EHP i've ever had to chew through

so checks out

[limber cradle]

Blue stimms turning things invincible in gas was something else

[compact oyster]

Ogryn is still one of the strongest

The only reaaon they call him weak is because frag bomb supposedly has been powercrept

[dim moth]

yeah like anybody was ever usng that in havoc outside of rituals anyways

[limber cradle]

The only time I've ever seen Ogs take frag bomb is because of rituals tbh

[compact oyster]

They forget that frag bomb still has a massive AOE

[glacial gyro]

Well you see hive scum has rockets now so ogryn frag bombe is the worst grenade in the game (not that anyone took it anyway)

[toxic dagger]

i used it in s1 a lot

[ornate fiber]

Ogryn is not even close to being one of the strongest

[toxic dagger]

run-saving reset button

[dim moth]

they're very obviously not the worst though

zealot is right there

[glacial gyro]

Oh yeah early on it was great, but enemies just have too much health now

[ornate fiber]

The peak placed by vet and psyker is so high Ogryn merely stands in the middle

[limber cradle]

Zealot is probably the worst class and they're still very viable ime, I am kinda biased against their kit tho

[ornate fiber]

My placement right now would be: Psyker-Vet>Scum>Arbites-Ogryn>>Zealot

[dim moth]

arbites peak is lower than ogryns peak

[glacial gyro]

I have it on good authority vet is really bad and outclassed by skoom in every way

-# source: Reddit

[dim moth]

like

substantially

[toxic dagger]

well I do think it's cool that nobody can agree on the actual power rankings

[dim moth]

arbites does not hold up to rumbler ogryn at all

[toxic dagger]

that means the intraclass balance is probably pretty good

[compact oyster]

Zealot is in no way the weakest

[toxic dagger]

hihi

[compact oyster]

Thats just extremely biased

[limber cradle]

Strongest class? What I'm using. Weakest class? What you're using.

[dim moth]

except that we can all agree zealot SUX and Psyker busted

[winged bay]

and yet a zealot is generally way more useful to have in the group than scum/ogryn/arbi

[ornate fiber]

Zealot is a joke, right now. The most generic and empty class

Boring weapons, boring talents

[dim moth]

man I was joking don't agree with me

[toxic dagger]

i think inferno staff and maybe blazing spirit trauma staff are busted. otherwise i dont think psyker is that crazy, its just that infinite ammo infinite cleave infinite dotstacking is nuts.

[limber cradle]

I said I was biased against their kit with full transparency

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[limber cradle]

Like

[winged bay]

inferno is quite mid with the current modifiers, only good when your team isn't doing anything

[dim moth]

Zealot has the best boss damage in the game, and very good melee damage

If you y'know stop using fucking chorus

And actually play to the classes strengths instead of being diet veteran

[limber cradle]

I only like FotF tbh

[ornate fiber]

Half the classes have "very good melee damage"

[trim wind]

In a game where there's alot of melee combat? Insanity

[glacial gyro]

which is wacky because when I play zealot I get requested to take chorus in havocs and its like, why? For gold toughness? Lets just kill them

[ornate fiber]

Scum two hitting crushers with a pair of shivs, meanwhile zealot is looking at his thunder hammer requiring a 2 seconds charge

[toxic dagger]

i did get absolutely fucking owned on ogryn in a h40 recently. godlike hive scum and zealot teammates were zooming ahead and just kiting the whole world and i got oof ouch owie'd by everything trying to keep up wtb dodge linger bug please

[dim moth]

they request it because they can't play without it, and would rather have an empty playerslot if it meant having piss toughness

[toxic dagger]

but i had another h40 where i felt supreme on the same build, controlling every fight and leading the team to victory

so 🤷

[limber cradle]

Tbh I finally started queueing havocs with like, actual people and it is so much easier it isn't even funny

[dim moth]

and honest to god if bots could use abilities/inherent talent trees

a bot zealot with chorus would be just as useful as an actual player with chorus

[glacial gyro]

how

[limber cradle]

Wdym how

[ornate fiber]

the technology was lost from Vermintide

[dim moth]

with how much that ability gimps your ability to contribute personally

[glacial gyro]

how did you find humans not piss-addicted homonculi

[ornate fiber]

its just like 40k lore, we knew how to do it, and now we dont

[limber cradle]

The people in this discord asked if I wanted to play havoc and I said "not on EU ping" and they said "I'm NA host dw" and I said "okay let's play havoc"

[glacial gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/write-that-down-taking-notes-school-universities-university-gif-17937210

[limber cradle]

You got any ripper advice btw?

[north saddle]

Switch to rumbler

[limber cradle]

No

[ornate fiber]

ripper is not very viable for havoc

it has a fun crit build, though

[limber cradle]

I don't play og for havoc, so

[dim moth]

yeah ripper doesn't have the ammo for havocs

twink can be fun in havocs if you use it only for the sake of PBB

[analog cliff]

MKV Flak Maniac 74 collat 66 ammo; IB & BA; good for CQC & toughness gen

[limber cradle]

Thank you for actually answering the question, blessed soul.

[dim moth]

Mk 6 with cavalcade+flechette is also a banger on glug builds

has massive crits

[ornate fiber]

can concur, its a very fun build

[limber cradle]

Thank you also

I'll get two

[north saddle]

Btw has the lagg issue been solved it does dt still have a stroke?

[north saddle]

Small little addendum,

The mk v has full auto on braced mode (although the rise on the barrel is fucking crazy)

The mk VI has burst fire (3 rounds i think) on both hip and braced.

Just keep that in mind

[limber cradle]

I like a gun with personality tbh

So I'll probably like the V

[carmine vortex]

Is Hivescum squishy?

[limber cradle]

No until you are.

[radiant swift]

real

[limber cradle]

Ik that doesn't make a lot of sense but like

You either run through a level and take 0 damage

Or you pop and die to something

They've got great toughness generation tho

And a lot of ways of avoiding damage flat out.

[toxic dagger]

You can use Mk5 ripper as a stagger stick and special sniper but not viable as a main weapon

Blaze away / inspiring barrage

[limber cradle]

Thank you, tbf I don't use guns as a main weapon on any class but this one.

[carmine vortex]

So doing drugs is a gameplay mechanic?

[limber cradle]

Yes.

[radiant swift]

when hive scum pops off they pop off, or sometimes you dodge into a poxwalker and get netted and insta downed

[placid prairie]

I once had a fucking rube goldberg ass death on hive scum

[radiant swift]

I got dragged through like 20 poxwalker melee attacks by a trapper and instakilled

[clever wren]

Hive Scum causes death by ||Error 2004, because of the spike in player population||

[placid prairie]

Barreled into a mutant grab, mutant was killed but I was immediately grabbed by the mutant behind it, thrown into a pox burster, and launched into another mutant grab that killed me

[winter galleon]

Scum: solo clutch a rescue against overwhelming horde… die to a poxwalker didnt see coming from behind while walking

[limber cradle]

Sometimes when I die on scum I genuinely have no idea what actually happened but tbh that on occasion happens with vet too.

[limber cradle]

Big time.

[clever wren]

Everything will be going along fine, then everyone starts running in place, then I watch myself ragdoll, then I get 2004'ed

Hadn't seen it that bad since the couple months after launch

[limber cradle]

Ive been getting more 2014s lately tbh

Scum update is wildly scuffed on the performance side ime.

[radiant swift]

game preformance has been pretty ok on my end, but connection wise? it was unplayable for like the first week of scum release

[limber cradle]

The mem leaks have been bad lately.

I restart every 2 havocs tbh

[radiant swift]

I been swaping around games alot so I probably haven't been able to notice any mem leaks

[limber cradle]

Ime if I play like

4-5 games but sometimes 3 I start getting worse performance

Game either runs buttery smooth no issues or is a shitfest

[winter galleon]

Ya its pretty consistent that after a couple maps if dont restart it begins to have issues and then crashes

[tight dragon]

whatre we thinking

is hivescum cracked?

[winter galleon]

Its definitely on crack

Desperado with vultures is arguably op as it invalidates a lot of game mechanics, melee is fun but not op, stim supply is unique and can be used to be op as well if set it up right.

I wouldnt place it above other classes but its certainly strong. And if you like nonstop bullet spam its really good but many find it gets boring pretty fast because your just shooting while ignoring 90% of the game.

Melee however really captures feel of a meat blender

[limber cradle]

I would say their melee is very strong ime

It feels like being a blender

I dont treat ragers and maulers like chaff on most other classes

[icy scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/dakka-tabletop-dungeoneers-discord-orcs-irks-gif-22814163

[winter galleon]

Idk evis or relic martyr zealot treats them like trash ime. It has a different feel and isnt as fast at general horde clear so doesnt pad the scoreboard meters as well but i certainly “feel” stronger on zealot especially when just one shot a crusher wall into 1-2 shotting a boss. But yes very meat blenderish

[north saddle]

Omg, the amount of 2004 dc recently....

[exotic temple]

Needle pistol also feels a bit overtuned. The adm on toxin stacks is a little nutty

[glacial gyro]

Diaperado is also boring as fuck. It was fun ocne or twice to just walk forward into the enemy hosing bullets everywhere but after a few times it became extremely dull.

[winter galleon]

Ya i enjoy melee but if going to melee i prefer other classes tbh so for me i just play my scum when i want to bullet haze and chill and other classes when actually playing more engaged

[exotic temple]

I kinda like desperado with stub pistols. It’s not the most optimal but i think it’s more fun.

[winter galleon]

I dont see it. Either your spamming your mouse or tou use auto mod and then its just a slower shooting same gameplay

[tight dragon]

the dual autopistols are really really ugly but i really really like the design

its like if the mac10 was designed like a modern suv

[glacial gyro]

I think the fact that "I play this class when I want to turn my brain off" can be applied to a class whose entire design philosophy is 'this class must engage in active defense, positioning, and situational awareness to stay alive' kind of just proves how absolutely awful the design of vultures/desperado is.

Hell, "I want to turn my brain off" should not be a playstyle period, but it being on Scum is so much worse because of how offensively powerful it is.

[winter galleon]

It certainly needs tuning

But its also tricky because it could easily become too weak with even just a little nerfing weirdly enough, it def needs some more deep cooking

But its fs so doubt will happen

Feels like class was a bit half baked

[glacial gyro]

I would fix it by making it so once you are hit, VD triggers for one second, protecting you from that hit and all hits for one second, and consumes all your vulture stacks. As for Desperado itself, I do not know why it needs ranged attack immunity at all.

[winter galleon]

I think the point is to solve the player complaints about gunner packs

[tight dragon]

i do hate ogryn gunners..

[winter galleon]

The ranged immunity makes the class custom built to go wipe the gunners, but as a side effect its also stupid strong just playing in the open

[glacial gyro]

A thing gun scum inherently has an easier time dealing with than rampage scum.

[winter galleon]

Well its about team play. On paper ability to go wipe the gunners makes it fill that role in a team. But the half baked design means its not just good at that its good at just ignoring most of the game as well

[glacial gyro]

If you want to give a team more counterplay against gunners, just make executioners stance better.

[toxic dagger]

Agreed that desperado ranged immunity, zero ammo consumption and vulture's dodge total immunity are poorly designed and should be balanceable buffs instead of binary "game mechanic disabled" states

[main trellis]

Its the toxin adm tbh; 0.9 vs cara & unyield is nutty

[winter galleon]

Imo the intent was good, the execution is lacking

[main trellis]

Say that to stagger immunity from toll; lets have it both ways ye

[winter galleon]

Needs to do that role but with more engagement somehow

[winged bay]

vulture's dodges melee immunity doesn't even do anything

[glacial gyro]

Gun scum isn't inherently good at dealing with gunners. Their ranged options are either too slow to keep VD up or too inaccurate to reliably kill gunners. What it DOES make them good at is walking out into the open and hosing the chaff between you and the gunners with no consequences for just standing in the open.

[limber cradle]

Too slow to keep VD up?

What are you running?

[glacial gyro]

Again, you want to make someone good at killing gunners, make executioners stance competitive with VoC

[limber cradle]

ES is competitive with VoC ime

[winter galleon]

Desperado movement speed lets you sprint to the gunners hose them down and sprint back. And also the only time dodge falls off for me is when reloading

[limber cradle]

People just dont use ES cause it requires more effort than "press f for free benefits"

[obsidian crown]

Yet I see so many floor pov scums. Brain off class goes to arbites

[winter galleon]

Doubt they are running desperado or if they are they are literally not dodging at all if they floor pov

[glacial gyro]

Yeah and now you have the enemy between you and the team so if something DOES happen (Hemmed in by crushers, which VD very explicitly does not proect you from, flamers, hit by a net, dog, etc) you're actually fucked. So you need to not do that.

[limber cradle]

Its kinda why I don't expect super heavy nerfs

[obsidian crown]

They were desperado

[winter tusk]

Farttide will never get nerfs

Eventually crushers are gonna have 10k hp

To account for powercreep

[limber cradle]

For as powerful as scum is in the right hands most of the community is abject dogshit and FS iirc hasn't heavily nerfed something since PS

[obsidian crown]

This

[winter galleon]

Same its a high skill floor for average player tbh, have to look at it through the eyes of a weekend gamer, but if you reach that floor which isnt hard tbh its insanely strong. But nerfs wont happen as a result

[main trellis]

Addition; ES is used for melee builds more than range builds cause stun immunity which says alot about the state of it

[winter tusk]

Look how broken arbitrator was and all it got was bug fixes that happened to be incidental slight nerfs

[obsidian crown]

90% of community won’t be able to utilize scum at its max potential. So gotta be careful with nerfs

[limber cradle]

Bath was right when they called ES vet pro max+, it just makes you better at doing everything.

[glacial gyro]

There's still a minimum bar to entry, but as long as you have the mental capacity to just stay near your team, you will top the scoreboards by miles in every category, often doing competitive damage with psykers while being extremely safe by comparison.

[limber cradle]

Most of the DT community thinks scum is bad, for some reason.

[obsidian crown]

Refer to my previous statement

[main trellis]

I dunno; nerfing walk it off & mine regen & dog quantity does look like major nerfs to me

[limber cradle]

I genuinely think dog change was a buff tbh

[glacial gyro]

And that's ok.

[winter galleon]

Partly due to how terrible it was during leveling before the talent changes and partly due to youtubers i think

[main trellis]

Won’t save a team tho

[limber cradle]

Unless you solely reserved stacks of dogsplosion for bosses it's up more often now

[obsidian crown]

They still do

“I get slapped, I die. Class bad”

[limber cradle]

It'll prevent you from ever being in a situation you need saving from if you use it well tho.

[glacial gyro]

Mister E is a fucking menace

[main trellis]

Nope; its worse cause it entered the same problem kraks had before buffs which was 2 quantity vs regen

If it had 3 it would be perfect but 2 is a tragic nerf

[bronze glade]

i mean

[winter tusk]

Needed ones

[bronze glade]

dogsplosion has more uptime now

[limber cradle]

You aren't gonna convince me dosplosion being in a lower CD than before is a nerf tbh

Yeah

You can actively dogsplode more

[bronze glade]

you can use it more times per match

you just can't burst shit down anymore

[limber cradle]

Its only a nerf if you sat on them

[winter tusk]

WHY DA DOG NO LONGER APPLY INFINITE BLEED REEEEEEEEEE

[limber cradle]

As soon as I see dogsplode hit 2 I'm using one.

[main trellis]

Only you; your team tho… yeah
Also you end up in a situation where stagger will save you only but you use ES & you just lose

[limber cradle]

You have free wallhacks. You can avoid that situation if you so choose to.

[main trellis]

It not about cdr only; it with 2 quantity that makes it bad

[limber cradle]

Believe whatever you want man.

[main trellis]

Avoid wall of armour on a dropdown

[limber cradle]

Kill them.

Its not like vet has issues killing armor.

[glacial gyro]

Why? Because you can't just sit princess on the plogryn's lap and press the Hasan Piker button 3 times to instantly kill it? Now you can only mostly kill it? Give me a break

[main trellis]

Kraks had the same issue since release
The whole community was adressing that that the quantity has to be 3 not 2

[icy scaffold]

Just delete Vulture’s dodge, make the range immunity trigger on crits, and keep the infinite ammo because that’s the fun part. No one cares that Vet can go infinite and Psyker staffs are infinite

[main trellis]

Its that ez huh
Never knew

[limber cradle]

Considering you can 2 tap crushers with a metric fuckton of vet options ime, yeah.

[winter galleon]

Plenty of people complain aboit psyker… scum just has the spotlight now

[exotic temple]

Even with vraks?

[north saddle]

Btw is darktide still laggy af like the last couple of days or is it playable again?

[main trellis]

What about other situations? Its not only for bosses you know; it has dmg & radius

[astral canyon]

does anyone have a gif of the hive scum from the intro using the boom bringer

[limber cradle]

I haven't had consistently extreme server issues lately but yk, DT is DT.

[glacial gyro]

Vraks is probably the one exception and its probably why its seen as competing with dap.

[main trellis]

There were some; standard 2004 & 2014 errors

[icy scaffold]

Bolt pistol desperado also goes brrrrt

[winter galleon]

It doesnt really compete, it knocks daps out of the water if being honest. Daps is just more fun

[limber cradle]

Yeah, they're inconsistent but present for me the last 2 days. I think I got 2014'd once.

[cedar cairn]

Desperado is limited by the fact that it's got awful range
The ranged immunity is what lets the Scum close distance and actually use the other half of their core

[glacial gyro]

Right, and a lower cooldown helps you have it up in those situations. As half a dozen people have said, the lower quantity only matters if you were sitting on them to nuke bosses.

[limber cradle]

Alright fine, here's my proposed desp nerf

Take the sprint speed boost

Balanced ability

[winter galleon]

Buff ps?

[astral canyon]

fuck no

[limber cradle]

Lmfao

[glacial gyro]

I don't believe that for a second. Show me a havoc 25+ clear with bolt pistol desperado and I'll change my mind.

[tender marten]

Ugh.

[astral canyon]

ugh

[dawn portal]

Not everyone is trying to be the emprah's numbah 1. Some of us are just having fun blowing up heretics with unlimited ammo

[glacial gyro]

And that's fine. Literally everything is viable in Heresy/Damnation. These discussions aren't about that.

[tender marten]

Three eggs, two toast, four bacon slices, some sausages, two pancakes that I buttered, and most of a pot of coffee. Somewhere along the way I went too far.

[main trellis]

Another point is that kraks were for singles while dog has more radius - it can be used in other situation effectively
Having only 2 is a detriment than a boon even if cdr was reduced by 10s
For contrast; if the dog had 3 charges still but cdr was i dunno; 75s it would still be better than what we have now

[tender marten]

Probably when I slathered Nutella on the toast

[winter galleon]

God forbid you play the game for fun sometimes instead of only ever playing to push. Auric maelstrom spam is perfectly fun evening of gaming

[glacial gyro]

That sounds like a perfectly normal breakfast??

[limber cradle]

Could also be the double carbs tbh

[main trellis]

Almost english breakfast

[limber cradle]

Idk my breakfast was leftover cheese fries tbh

[tender marten]

The problem is I weight 115lbs ..... after the breakfast

[main trellis]

I don’t eat breakfast; no time to make it