hivescum-class

[winter tusk]

no its by default worse because you actually have to be in range

which is a good thing

[final temple]

How dare the meta be efficient to use so you can focus on the bs the director throws at you!

[keen timber]

the meta will always have two divisions. the easy braindead shit and the hard really strong shit. sometimes the braindead shit becomes much stronger and sometimes the inverse is true, but it usually bounces between them

[tight musk]

For a long time I kept hearing how the dueling sword is the best melee, but almost every time I tried it I was not impressed, I didn't like using it.

[hazy vector]

there is very rarely any bs

everything is avoidable

[winter tusk]

thats because you didnt spam heavy enough

[final temple]

ideally.

we are not ideal players.

[dim moth]

Yeah beacus dueling sword is and has always only been the best melee in the game

[winter tusk]

ds4 was a plague when it got added to the other classes

[plucky nymph]

“Use the coolest weapon that you like”

. - Sun Tzu 430 BC

[dim moth]

For bad players

[charred bronze]

It's mid for hordes, dandy for killing crushers safely

[unreal stirrup]

or just because ds isn't that good

[hazy vector]

speak for yourself

[hazy vector]

pls no

[torn ember]

As someone who watched as not one but two Poxbursters spawned 5 feet in front of me last night I take umbrage with that comment

[charred bronze]

Which, in certain circumstances, is very very good

[hazy vector]

i have ptsd after that one commisar cosplayer with power falchion and bistol

[dim moth]

It never measured up against the somewhat harder to use actual top tiers on the classes performance wise. It was just super forgiving if you had terrible fundamentals

[winter tusk]

no it was pretty objectively damage wise overpowered and one of the best weapons in the game at the time

[hazy vector]

on havoc

he was useless

[manic wolf]

It can do, though in nearly every game i've ever played, the hard "meta" is something that like 1% of the community uses and the rest either play offmeta, or the strongest, most braindead thing they can find.

For a simple example, Battlefield6 and SMGs. There is an AR thats extremely strong, but kicks like an angry mule, but because its hard to manage, everyone an thier nan plays zero recoil SMGs

[mighty belfry]

Game is not in a state to viably say there's no bullshit honestly

[hazy vector]

? they don't spawn anywhere visible for the player, at worst they suddenly come from unaccessable doors

[torn ember]

I literally saw them spawn in open ground on the new tank map.

[mighty belfry]

If anything, a balance check is needed because the amount of bullshit this game throws at you has noticeably increased.

[hazy vector]

i would say only bs parts are some enemies making no sounds, but that's it

[torn ember]

Literally in front of me

[charred bronze]

I'm not certain that's true. I still run across an occasional duelling sword enjoyer who tears shit up magnificently. Part of the profile of how actually good a weapon is, is safety and ease of use.

[winter tusk]

nah we just keep raising the general power level

https://tenor.com/view/castorice-powercreep-hsr-castorice-hsr-dragon-gif-8292897753528429760

[keen timber]

I've literally never seen that happen, have you got any video footage of this?

[manic wolf]

Remember the days when a squad of 5 elites was an event and a legitimate threat? :/

[hazy vector]

100% sure awareness issue

[winter tusk]

i've had poxwalkers and shit spawn in thin air before

not bursters though

[charred bronze]

When you combine excellent output with those things, I'm not sure you can call other weapons that do the same job slightly faster, but less safely and less reliably top tier

[manic wolf]

Now Ragers an Shotgunners an shit are just fodder when they used to be capable of actually killing you

[torn ember]

I wish but no I don't record anything

[dim moth]

ragers and shotgunners definitely still kill you

[keen timber]

ragers can be a threat. shotgunners though, lmao

[zealous ravine]

ragers arent even that weak but shotgunners usually do nothing lol

[hazy vector]

opposite for me lol

[dim moth]

dreg ragers especially have a tendency to just teleport 10 feet and hit you instantly

[mighty belfry]

Poxbursters still sometimes won't be pushed when you're clearly pushing them. Trappers can still shoot through literal columns of crushers through a hallway. Sound issues are worse than ever.

Tox bombers exist.

[keen timber]

they dont teleport, they spaceglide across the floor

[dim moth]

shotgunners before they fucked the dodge linger can hit you once while you're dodging and oopsie you're stunned for 3 seconds now :)

[charred bronze]

Before the hitbox hotfix I had a few silent bursters literally leap through open doors with seemingly no preamble. No tick, nuffin

[dim moth]

so you die

[keen timber]

I've seen the poxes not blowing up way more often recently since the hotfix

[manic wolf]

Ragers are only a threat if there is like 10 of them all squished into an area the size of a postage stamp. Back in the day, two or three in a mixed horde was enough to be threatening

[dim moth]

2 or 3 dreg ragers are still a threat

[hazy vector]

1. Could be ping issues
2. Trappers still avoidable due to sound
3. Just kill tox bomber : ^ )

[manic wolf]

They're not

[dim moth]

could be 50 scab ragers and they wouldn't be shit

same as it always ws for them

[winter tusk]

yeah i just had a silent burster out of a door a few days ago

it still happens

[charred bronze]

That's always been a thing for me.

[dim moth]

scab ragers are annoying not a real threat

dreg ragers will kill you

[mighty belfry]

It wasn't even something that was introduced with the patch. It just got worse with the patch.

[manic wolf]

Bursters have always been fuckywucky with audio

[lapis raft]

i had poxbursters just follow me and ignore push and not even explode, not happening as much since last hotfix but before it was ridiculous

[winter tusk]

i have a clip showing this issue from july

[lapis raft]

just chasing me forever for no reason

[winter tusk]

dont get hopeful

[keen timber]

thats what im saying

[mighty belfry]

Trappers are usually silent because of all the shit happening

[dim moth]

poxbursters blowing up should be hard coded into their stagger animation tbh

[keen timber]

yeah that's why I said "Way more often" not "just started"

[torn ember]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1pp4cg2/why_were_the_2nd_and_3rd_pox_bursters_resistant/

Poxbursters sometimes just don't push

[mighty belfry]

This game can't handle the sheer amount of nonsense happening on screen with its sound channels.

[charred bronze]

I've had no memorable no-push bursters since the hotfix, but could be luck

[hazy vector]

Actually most often i am b eing downed lately by snipers whose beams i simply don't see until it is too late, at always same specific angle somewhere around 5 o'clock

[manic wolf]

I feel like every patch the game has ever had has pushed the needle further and further on bursters, we adapt an get used to it awaiting changes, nothing changes, we adapt again, ad infinitum, now we're at the point where they dont explode as much as they pop out of spawn doors and explode with no warning

[hazy vector]

never seen that

[torn ember]

It's never happened to me either but, well, it does happen

[plucky nymph]

I’m sure people know, but bursters I THINK, hard target certain people and only they can actually cc the burster (otherwise they literally walk thru even psyker walls and ignore pushes, then when he swaps target to you then you can push)

But idk what makes them hard target

[torn ember]

I've gotten the silent variant that doesn't make any noise until it jumps tho

[hazy vector]

nah, not true

[charred bronze]

SMGs in fps games are nonsense. Rifle caliber weapons should always have a faster time to kill.

[plucky nymph]

Every “non pushable burster” isn’t going for me

[hazy vector]

otherwise shards psykers would not fuck me over when i am trying to push burster

[mighty belfry]

They do actually. Their behavior has just become more inconsistent recently.

[plucky nymph]

Then they can target swap then jump you

[dim moth]

yeah disablers do this too they even have unique audio queues for it

[manic wolf]

Its particularly egregious in BF. They went through the effort of giving guns unique spread patterns, but a 9mm with a 4 inch barrel has 1/10th the spread at 200m than an 5.56 AR does if you're spraying

[charred bronze]

I have definitely side-pushed bursters in the past. And been screwed by bad side pushes.

Small chance those were mutie rushes or explosions

[lapis raft]

yea this was the most common when the threat reduction talent was forced i think. but i had few that come straight at me and i cant push them, but they also dont explode so its just funny

[plucky nymph]

They literally walk thru psyker walls when it happens too

[charred bronze]

At 200m a 9mm damage profile should drop into the toilet

[manic wolf]

You would think right?

But nope, apparently not

[charred bronze]

You can shoot a handgun out to surprising distances, but the terminal ballistic at those ranges are garbo

[manic wolf]

Its not even about damage at those ranges, its about accuracy

[charred bronze]

And SMGs do not appreciably improve those terminal ballistics despite a longer barrel

[manic wolf]

Your MoA with a pistol caliber SMG is not going to be competing with an intermediate caliber rifle at long distances

[lapis raft]

hd2 at least tried to get smgs right

with the damage falloff

except well the result is they also suck at same time xd

[zealous ravine]

me equipping the usual smg and instantly falling asleep

[mighty belfry]

They may be going for someone near you instead.

[dim moth]

and when they didn't suck all people did was say they were better than ARs despite being objectively worse than ARs beyond 30 meters xd

[lapis raft]

nah i was literally running around a fucking obstacle and it was just chasing me

[dim moth]

I'd have people try and convince me that SMGs were better than ARs at range while I was posting direct video evidence to the contrary and they'd just ignore it

[lapis raft]

thought at first it wasnt following me

but it def was

[mighty belfry]

But the thing is, it feels like much more of that, has been happening. It feels like the targeting for poxbursters in general has been janky.

[lapis raft]

but even when right on top of me it did not explode

[charred bronze]

SMGs/PCCs are cqb weapons more useful for civilians than mil or leo

[mighty belfry]

Well shit.

[lapis raft]

so wasjust odd

and that happened to me multiple times on previous patch

[charred bronze]

There's a reason most swat teams and SOF units swapped to short barreled rifles instead

[dim moth]

government overfunding?

[manic wolf]

In the context of a shooter, an SMG should have a competative TTK in CqC, but at distance you shouldnt be able to hit fuck all with it, an its kinda shid that developers dont seem to understand this

[charred bronze]

Esp since the advent of .300 blackout

[charred bronze]

No, handgun caliber rounds are nowhere near as effective to stop a target as rifle caliber rounds are.

[torn ember]

Eh for LEO there's an extra advantage to SMGs in that they are less likely to overpenetrate

[charred bronze]

Mythology, mostly. 9mm will happily penetrate several interior walls

[grand jewel]

you see, LEO for me is low earth orbit

[charred bronze]

Drywall

[grand jewel]

SMGs in space

[torn ember]

To be fair you can penetrate drywall with a quarter if you throw it hard enough

(this may be hyperbole)

But it does still apply with like exterior walls

[ancient basin]

I have noticed that rampage reduces your ability to hear specials quite a bit, hope it gets changed

[charred bronze]

Exactly. Overpenetration in cqb was an overblown concept that's largely disregarded. Shockingly I've seen tests where tumbling 5.56 penetrated fewer layers of dry wall than 9mm or shotgun pellets

[lapis raft]

ngl that sounds pretty in theme with rampage

[mighty belfry]

Maybe .45 ACP but 9mm? Still overpenetrates like all hell unless it's hollowpoint.

[ancient basin]

could be a subjective thing though, as I have only been playing HS after the dlc

[clever wren]

HD2 SMGs are ruined by their pistol-like sway, more than anything

[ancient basin]

scriers gaze does the same thing at high peril, or just high peril generally

[mighty belfry]

And because hollowpoint is kind of a legal gray area, you don't see those often.

[charred bronze]

Modern hollowpoint is designed to penetrate intermediate hard barriers and expand in softer mediums

[torn ember]

I was under the impression that police primarily use JHP

[tender forge]

Also 45 acp is more likely to overpenetrate innit?

[charred bronze]

Not at all. Mil typically uses JHP FMJ due to geneva convention. All LEO use JHP stuff like federal HST, speer gold dot, etc. modern hollow points

[mighty belfry]

ACP doesn't accumulate as much velocity and it's big and bulbous.

It can penetrate but overpenetration is less of a concern.

[torn ember]

Federal HST is JHP lmao

Literally "Jacketed Hollow Point"

[supple delta]

I am using Dual Stub Pistols on my melee build, what perks/blessings should I put?

[drifting heron]

Run n gun speedloader

Flak maniac

[dim moth]

I have flak/unyielding on mine

desperado/run n gun

I just raw dog the reload on a melee build honestly

[limber cradle]

I have uhhh, flak/maniacs run and gun and sustained fire on em

[torn ember]

Speer Gold dot is also JHP:

[ancient basin]

they fix the crit bonus on the dual stubs?

heard it wasnt working before

[drifting heron]

Its fixed yeah

[dim moth]

also came with me learning that apparently the funny spin shot has 15% more crit chance ontop of that free 5%

neat!

[torn ember]

I love the funny spin shot

[dim moth]

also them fixing the crit bonus stat just to give it the weakest crit bonus stat by far xd

[limber cradle]

I love those pistols, I just wish they were better.

[dim moth]

shit gives 8% crit to revolver, 12.5% to taxe

[torn ember]

I think they're fine for what they do, which is be a midpoint between an autogun and the revolver

[dim moth]

but dual stubs gotta slum it with 5%

smh

[limber cradle]

I think the issue is moreso the needler

If I want a sidearm for a melee build the needler is just

A thing that exists

[torn ember]

The Needle Pistol, IMO, needs an ammo reduction

[ancient basin]

I roll the hip fire revolver for style over the needler

both can kill crushers so it evens out

[torn ember]

Too easy to keep 100% uptime with it with Pickpocket

[pallid quail]

wrong. thats the hague convention which the us didnt sign

[ancient basin]

I do enjoy the vibe of the dual stubs the most though, I just cant work them into a build due to lack of crusher counter

[torn ember]

They work fine in a Crowbar build, but Crowbar needs a bit of a boost too

[lilac ermine]

I tried the shotgun build it was bad

[limber cradle]

I don't run pickpocket on melee builds and still don't run out of ammo for it ever.

[torn ember]

Even more of a reason to slap the ammo count. And maybe the reload speed?

[final temple]

I run pickpocket on all my builds and still occasionally get outjerked by my team.

[limber cradle]

Idk, I think it's a tox efficiency thing

[torn ember]

Tox is also probably a bit too good

I think it's a 0.9 ADM vs. Carapace or something wacky

[clever wren]

Terminal ballistics is complicated, but .45ACP is wider and typically slower than 9mm but (IIRC) has way more momentum at comparable kinetic energy (it varies widely with loading, the hottest .45 will have much more KE than the hottest 9mm), and momentum is usually more important for barrier penetration

[torn ember]

I think Merc dipped when I pointed out he didn't know wtf JHP actually meant

At any rate the new 5.56 rounds are actually really good at not overpenetrating

[clever wren]

So were the original ones
M855 was a mistake

[torn ember]

And you don't care as much about cost per shot if its a situation where you're pulling out the big guns anyways

I mean it's fine for war stuff but why on earth you'd want LEO's shooting green tips is beyond me

[empty jacinth]

Is desperado fun with revolver fan the hammer

or is it bad

[torn ember]

Unfortunately the Agri Revolver has terrible penetration so you only kill 1 guy per shot with it 🙁

If you could hit 2-3 per shot it'd be a ton of fun but as is it's rough

Fun to blast away with it but you can't just spray down hordes like you can with an Autogun or the dual autos

[hazy vector]

double barrel very fun with desperado

and 3 shells

i would say it might be better than autopistols

[torn ember]

How does 3 shells and Both Barrels interact

[hazy vector]

don't know

[icy scaffold]

Yea, you’d probably be fine with the revolver desperado, just make sure to grab chem dependency and hyper critical for when you gotta wipe out a horde in melee

[hazy vector]

taking both barrels is stupid tbh

there are only 2 blessings you should ev en consider

+to crit% and increased cleave on crits

everything else makes double barrel meh

[sinful matrix]

Yeah, I'm not sure there's really a point to that revolver whatsoever

You can argue for things like the stubby brauto with raw DPS

[torn ember]

It's one claim to fame (other than fun) is that it can do a lot of damage to bosses with Trickshooter

[sinful matrix]

or mag size so you reload less often blablabla

[fallen arrow]

Less recoil would also be kinda nice

[hazy vector]

If hyper critical worked with ranged it owuld make stubbers os much better

[sinful matrix]

but the fan revolver is just big ass

[fallen arrow]

Tried it on a Desperado build, its fun but not the most effective on anything less than a big horde

[hazy vector]

Bardin pistol ranger build vibes?

[torn ember]

Honestly I would be fine with Hyper-critical working with ranged, it would mostly only matter for the mid-damage guns anyways

[hazy vector]

actually might make iag vraks op

[torn ember]

Maybe

speaking of which isn't the Vraks IAG one of those guns where you might actually want to not dump mobility, because it takes sprint speed from 0.4 to 0.6?

You probably dump Mobility anyways and just use your melee to run away from things, but it's a thought I had

[final temple]

The Emperor protects the brave.

[charred bronze]

ah, my mistake. afaik US mil still doesn't generally issue jhp though.

[torn ember]

Part of me wants to run a double barrel without the third shot + both barrels to complete the doom cosplay

but I wouldn't take that to havoc or anything

[charred bronze]

I meant FMJ

[torn ember]

oh god no not FMJ

[unique spire]

Yall unrelated question but which game should I present myself for Christmas? Space Marines 2 or ARC Raiders

[torn ember]

FMJ in LEO environment would be hella stupid

[unique spire]

Oh wait this isn't general

Oh well

[charred bronze]

I meant for .mil (excluding SOF mission specific stuff). I mistyped and was correcting it

You're right. leo uses JHP. Shit I use HST. I'm short on sleep and was dumb

[brittle sierra]

neither

u would need to pay ME to play those games 😔

[charred bronze]

aside from this one, which other games do you generally like?

[dim moth]

arc raiders so you can have fun

[broken moss]

it's against Geneva/Hague convention

[ancient basin]

do you enjoy pvp arc raiders, if you enjoy pve space marine 2

[icy scaffold]

Do you prefer QTE 3rd person 40k game or extraction shooter that may or may not turn “toxic”

[unique spire]

KCD, Monster Hunter, Stellaris

[unique spire]

Since when you became a paid friend

[charred bronze]

Do you own Hearts of Iron IV, and or care about WWII military strategy? It's on sale 75% off right now

[unique spire]

No

[charred bronze]

for me, I've been considering arc raiders solely because I know a lot of people who are playing that game and refuse to play DT

I own SM2 and the campaign was fun but I fell off of it

[brittle sierra]

always

[limber cradle]

"Hey, have you tried heroin?" Ahh statement

[torn ember]

I would like to humbly recommend Total War Warhammer

[unique spire]

I don't think this game is on Xbox

[zenith pagoda]

I think I'm going deaf from all this magdumping

[unique spire]

If it was I would totally have brought it

[torn ember]

ooooohhh on console yeah no Total War for you then

that'd be awful to play with controller

[unique spire]

Because of the army fights orrr

[torn ember]

Because it's a lot of micro

[ancient basin]

Arc raiders is all about the pvp shooter game loop. If you enjoy blasting other players without saying anything and a lightweight progression system, it has decent graphics, good audio, and an interesting vibe. The movement felt slow and ponderous, the guns were a bit rickety and low power, and the ARC were a suitable level of danger for a pve antagonist in a pvp game.

[charred bronze]

is the learning curve for HOI shallower than Crusader Kings 2? I wanna get into the game but I keep bouncing off of it

[torn ember]

Aiming spells, dodging spells, repositioning, cycle charging cav and chariots

[ancient basin]

having a squad to play with would probably make it even better if its your jam too

no hate for the game, just not my lane is all

[manic wolf]

Ive heard its a good mix of people who will talk to you and people who will KoS you, much like DayZ

[charred bronze]

apparently Arc Raiders is experimenting with behavioral matchmaking? Where friendly players are more likely to be mapped with friendly players? I saw the headline, didn't read the article. Anyone know anything about that, or have lots of contrary experiences?

[manic wolf]

I have it, but not played it yet lol

Thats kinda stupid tho

[charred bronze]

for steam users, do any of us not have dozens of unplayed games? Usually purchased for like 3 bucks, but still

[manic wolf]

Lmao, true

But yeah, behavioural matchmaking sounds like a poorly thought out idea

[charred bronze]

I think it's interesting.

[manic wolf]

The reason DayZ is such a beloved game by many is because the amount of interactions, both friendly and hostile is just massive

Interesting, but I dont think it makes for a very entertaining game if they're going that route

[charred bronze]

and I didn't read the article. Could be they're ensuring a mix? I dunno

[manic wolf]

Might as well just have PvE and PvP servers

[charred bronze]

iirc sea of thieves eventually caved and basically did that

[tender marten]

There's no sport if you can't surprise people if everyone defaults to PvP or the game defaults you to PvP lobbies.

[charred bronze]

there's a lot of non-hardcore gamers that want the co-up pve experience in a moderately demanding environment

[manic wolf]

Christ knows why. If you play one of those sorts of games but get mad about getting KoS'd, maybe its not your cup of tea

[tender marten]

At that point it's just a dressed up BR.

[charred bronze]

I think I would have been able to get a lot more of my friends into Hunt: Showdown if there'd been a PvE version. PvP was just too janky and stressful for a bunch of them

but they loved the vibe and setting. Just got tired of getting murdered by hostile sweats

Is death punishing in ARC?

[manic wolf]

Its an extraction shooter, so at least moderately so

Thats kinda the whole point

Those sorts of games are one step down from survival games

[sinful matrix]

Games are supposed to be fun, relaxing, and maybe test your limits of personal skill.

Unfortunately, these are all HIGHLY subjective descriptors.

That said, if a game is pvevp you know what you're signing up for

[charred bronze]

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that there's a non zero % of players who are interested in that vague style of gameplay, but ill suited to PvP environments.

[manic wolf]

Sure, and im not arguing they're not, but expecting the game to change its design philosphy because you dont like it is why you get the shitshow communities like Helldivers has

[sinful matrix]

Stim

I want you to look at what discord server you're on

[tender marten]

Mfers love the thrill of walking a tight rope until they fall, then suddenly it's a design failure.

[manic wolf]

Indeed

[sinful matrix]

Ironic for a dtider to talk about shitshow communities

[manic wolf]

The souls community has this same problem. "Its not fun unless I win all the time"

[charred bronze]

darktide community is actually excellent

[tender marten]

Not really.

[sinful matrix]

though I suppose fatshark has mostly caved to the demands so we don't see much of the "REEEE POWERSWORD VETERAN BAD NERF REEEE" shit anymore

[charred bronze]

every game has complainers

[manic wolf]

It is not remotely comparable to some of the gaming communities out there

[tender marten]

It's not even about the community. They're pretty much all terrible when it comes to balance suggestions.

[sinful matrix]

Yeah

[tender marten]

Helldivers is maligned because the devs there acquiesed to the complaints.

[charred bronze]

that's also all communities

[sinful matrix]

I mean I AM glad that Arrowhead caved a bit and quit nerfing everything that stood out

Though the biggest problem there was that it was very obvious Arrowhead was only looking at useage rates to balance

[charred bronze]

devs I worked with had a saying "listen to players because they 100% know when they're not having fun. They are very bad at suggesting ways to fix that problem, though."

[sinful matrix]

So it just felt extra ass

[tender marten]

Nothing like a game balanced around having 20 lives where you'll probably not even end up using two.

[manic wolf]

Anyway, behavioural matchmaking could easily ruin a game like Arc Raiders or any other game of similar ilk

[sinful matrix]

I mean I just don't want my guns to feel like poopy dogwater doodoo

[charred bronze]

Players are also bad at pinpointing the exact reasons why something isn't fun.

Top players are also bad at identifying why things that would be fun for them might not be fun for the larger body of the community. Always a balancing act

[sinful matrix]

Removing half the mags off of the Las-5 Sickle is a good way to balance a gun

Nuking the amount of durable damage the railgun does so now it literally cannot kill a bile titan is not

(I'm aware that's long since been fixed)

[manic wolf]

I think the latter is more true than the former, its pretty easy to point out why something isnt fun, the problem is that fun is often subjective and instances where something removes a lot of the skill from a game is fun for the group who want a mindless power fantasy and extremely un-fun for players who want to be challenged

[sinful matrix]

I like Valve's take

[manic wolf]

See; gunscum

[sinful matrix]

"Fuck them bitch ass losers under 8k mmr"

(In reference to Dota 2)

There's just a huge volume of information Valve outright ignores for balancing dota 2 because they literally do not care if some moron who couldn't pilot a hero halfway thinks its good or bad

[tender marten]

Arrowhead was kinda based initially with the complaints. Some dude was saying D9 was too hard and a dev was like "ok, and? do you want me to rename it to d5?"

[sinful matrix]

I think release hd2 was perfect except for the railgun and shield backpack

Which is unfortunate

They can't seem to replicate that same landscape

[tender marten]

Ragdolling was pretty excessive too.

That stims can be used at full health now is also huge. Wish they lead with that change before buffing everything and nerfing every single enemy in every respect.

[ancient basin]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2memes-tf2-gmod-ragdoll-gif-26075798

[sinful matrix]

Yeah, all release hd2 needed was a few small tweaks to a few standout issues and it would've been 100/100

Instead we got 9 months of nerf hammer

community outrage

and now everything is stupid overpowered

(Except the AT-4, somehow. But that's mostly down to the 7 second stationary reload I suppose)

[charred bronze]

sure, in an mmo context, it was often stuff like 'my class isn't topping the dps meters by 2%. Buff now', but it holds true for other things.

[sinful matrix]

One day someone will carry that backpack for me

[sinful matrix]

I'm glad I like tanking

I just need to learn threat management and boss mechanics

[charred bronze]

tanks had plenty of complaints too

[sinful matrix]

everyone else can figure it out from there

[charred bronze]

especially the tanks that weren't getting picked to raid top content. Tanking is very much a zero sum game at the high end of play

or was. I think WoW devs kinda just make all tanks good now? I haven't played in years

[sinful matrix]

I mean I'm gonna call that a patience thing

even WoW, with its fairly fast release dates for new content

gives you SO MUCH time between expacs

Who cares if you do a raid day 1, week 1, or month 1

except people with penis size problems

[charred bronze]

you are, perhaps, underestimating how much of a given wow player's leisure time was devoted to the game, and how much of their identity they attached to their characters

[sonic token]

Hay guys What blessing should i use on the dual auto pistols ?

[sinful matrix]

all the turbo nerds are gonna pick their favorites for each role on release, and then those restrictions are going to matter less and less as people get more and more comfortable with a raid so skill levels start to matter less

[charred bronze]

but you're right, in the grand scheme, stuff comes and goes

[sinful matrix]

run and gun/pinning fire

OH, pistols

[sonic token]

Ty

[charred bronze]

but again, identity. WoW sweats want to be in the first wave of beating content, not the late stage versions of a raid that've been nerfed so they're 'barely harder than LFR'

[sinful matrix]

wait, fuck I already forgot scum class weapon names lmao

the dual uzis? run and gun/pinning fire

[charred bronze]

and those engaged players are very loud voices in any given community

[limber cradle]

Brother I do not subject myself to paradox games

[sonic token]

What pinning fire. ?

[sinful matrix]

for the dual 1911s, I have no idea

none of the blessings felt super high impact to me

[zenith pagoda]

Just saw tanners "meta" for scum and holy ass

[fallen arrow]

Crucian Roulette could be fun

[sinful matrix]

HOI4 is much harder than ck2

as an avid lover of ck2

the game has zero difficulty

unless you play an OPM in india

[charred bronze]

I really enjoyed the initial stages of trying to figure things out, but then couldn't figure out how to aim for desired results without everything constantly going horribly off the rails. Which is, I'm sure, part of the point. You don't play CK2 to win, you play to see what happens.

Still

[sinful matrix]

Uh

I'm going to be completely honest

I genuinely think CK2 is one of the easiest games paradox have ever made

[charred bronze]

shrug I didn't grok it, and moved on to other stuff

I have no ego attached to that, sometimes we bounce off of games

[sinful matrix]

Retinues definitely broke a lot of the balance, but even if you're playing DLC-less ck2, the solution to every problem is afk for 200 years while building shit in your home province until you have 20k levies and steamroll everyone around you

[charred bronze]

well that's a game knowledge thing, right? I didn't know that, and kept trying to do stuff when it felt like I had 'enough' troops or influence or whatever built up

[sinful matrix]

CK2's combat is literally just a numbers game

if you have more troops in a fight, you win

none of the combat nuance was carried over from their other titles

Sometimes that changes if generals in an army all have 15+ martial and a bunch of combat traits, or you're fighting pikeman

but 99% of the time, its just "have more dudes"

[charred bronze]

it was mostly random events and plots wrecking my plans though. Got a great heir? He gets the plague or whatever. Been years, I don't recall the details. Your Queen has super high approval and everything's great? Affair and bastards everywhere for some reason? My spymasters kept hating me, and would improve in approval very slowly. I'm speaking in vagaries cuz it's been ages, but that kinda thing.

[sinful matrix]

Largely ignorable, to be honest

Which is actually a game knowledge thing

[charred bronze]

couldn't seem to get nobles to marry my lonely court members for some reason, but didn't know how to fix that

yeah, that's what I'm saying

[sinful matrix]

Courtiers and vassals hating you comes from three things:

Culture, Religion, Demesne

[charred bronze]

I lacked the game knowledge to know why shit was going wrong or how to fix it adequately

[sinful matrix]

Oh, and vassals have one more: Short Reign Malus

[sinful matrix]

Prestige

AI almost always say no to a -300(marrying a lowborn) prestige marriage

[cedar cairn]

Online coop games are fucked because you're getting criticism from

• Craig Gamer.ttv who treats the game like a full time job and spends 35 minutes of pregame prep finding a coordinated group of teammates who all have mics and organize roles
• John Doe who just immediately hit the Find Game button and dropped into a lobby of 3 other idiots with the collective teamwork skills of 4 cats in a wet bag and one guy with a mic who's only using it to livestream his impeding domestic abuse case

[sinful matrix]

I dunno, if you want to actually get into CK2, watch Arumba on youtube

While his CK2 content is years old at this point and missing some DLCs, it covers the basics

Enough to get you through three or four generations without any significant issues

[charred bronze]

yeah, that's the ego part. I wanted to figure it out and bounced off before I actually did. I'll probably go back to it again at some point

and borrow game knowledge from guides and such

[sinful matrix]

I mean I bounced off EU5 because it's a labyrinthian beast that makes zero sense to me because I haven't played Victoria 2 or 3

NONE OF MY BUTTONS DO THE THINGS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO

[bronze glade]

Victoria 3 was such a mess

Heard it’s better but idc

[nova cosmos]

:3

[charred bronze]

question: is pocket toxin worth running with blinders and sample collector in an otherwise down the middle melee build?

[exotic temple]

I think so but I raw dawg dt so I don’t have numbers to back it up or anything

Its regeneration removes the anxiety of not finding grenades later on

[icy scaffold]

If you’re taking blinders then you generally want pocket toxin. Especially if you’re using a bolt pistol to make the explosion even bigger

[manic wolf]

Yes, but bear in mind you're giving up regen speed by doing so as deaths by Tox DoT don't count towards regen count

Only close kills with non-DoT damage will count towards you getting one back

[vast yoke]

give it a shot and see if you like it. instastagger that kills a lot of smaller elites is always worth it, but it's a talent point and there are 2 other great blitz

sample collector can usually be skipped if you're not running dependency cus you're probably just running a CDR stim

[charred bronze]

yeah, the goal is CDR stimm is always available as soon as rampage is on cooldown. Trying to maximize rampage uptime without giving up adrenaline

[vast yoke]

you do not need to worry genuinely. on higher diffs you will maintain rampage long enough for your stim to pretty much always be there

in my experience*

that is assuming you're not using some janky weapon that struggles upkeeping rampage

[charred bronze]

more of a skill issue or situation, rampaging vs crusher packs, but there's not much accompanying horde, or just mistiming it and running out of things to kill on auric

or y'know, playing with one of the careers that kills all the trash very very quickly

[vast yoke]

you should be fine upkeeping rampage vs crushers no?

[low harbor]

faster atk speed weapons have easier time with rampage duration extension

[vast yoke]

yeah but i find even chaining shiv heavies upkeeps rampage pretty fine vs crushers

what are you running a bone saw?

[low harbor]

worst case is prob chain weapon

sawrip ticks are not hits

[vast yoke]

tbh my attack speed with chaxe is so fast in rampage a light special is insanely fast

not a fan of mk4 chax on rampage though it rlly struggles maintaining duration on horde clear

[manic wolf]

I feel like thats an oversight more than anything else tbh

[fallen void]

why does this game genuinely want me deaed

[manic wolf]

Its not a huge issue, but it can be a bit annoying at times

[fallen void]

guess how many stub pistols i bought and guess how many had a collateral stat of 70 or more

[manic wolf]

Just as well, because Pinning is its only meaningful damage boosting blessing, so mobility is a better dump

[vast yoke]

honestly collat 60 procs it just fine unfortunately

so it's probably still a dump

[manic wolf]

I would still choose mob over collat just because of that blessing if I have the choice. If a weapon doesnt have pinning, but has collat as a stat on item card, then its much more of a consideration

Its not got a lot of stagger to begin with, its got enough but a little bit more doesnt hurt

[charred bronze]

yeah, then it drops off quickly if we're not fighting constantly. I use the cd stimm in those situations so it's ready for the next fight

[vast yoke]

what diffs are you usually running cus rampage struggles on damnation or lower but really shines auric+

mostly struggles upkeep*

[manic wolf]

Other school of thought is to use power stim in between rampage uses, you can kill enough to have it back up the next time rampage ends in a lot of cases with stim collector

[vast yoke]

tru

or attack

speed

[manic wolf]

Yer

[charred bronze]

strictly auric. Inspired by a fellow rampage scum that did immense output, wanted to see if I can duplicate with a similar build

[manic wolf]

Either way, Rampage has a pretty fuckin short cooldown so its not a huge issue if you don't spec cooldown

30s is really quite short as ults go

[charred bronze]

considering that too. STR and attack speed stimm are still significantly less damage than rampage though

[rich carbon]

on Knives, is cheap shot or battering strikes better

[vast yoke]

yeah tbf you're probably using it on too small of groups. if it's just a couple shitters and 3 gunners don't bother procing it

[manic wolf]

Cheapshots is basically always bad

[rich carbon]

kk ty

[charred bronze]

part of it is definitely skill. Part of it is squad mates that murder the trash before I can kill it

[rich carbon]

also what perks / blessings do dual pistols want?

esp for more precisionn focused builds

[charred bronze]

stuff like flamestaff psyker and aggressive desperado players

[vast yoke]

cheap shots only applies on fully staggered, e.g. literally flat on their ass on the ground XD it also applies to crowbar special heavy and bonesaw biting heavies

i think

[manic wolf]

Speedloader/Pinning, or Speedloader/Run'n'Gun, Flak/Maniac or Flak/Unyeilding if you're gonna be using them for a full range build

Yeah, thats right

Latch attacks proc it and knockdowns proc it, but outside of that sort of stuff its sort of poinless

I guess it could have some small synergy with blinders, but probably not worth the opportunity cost

[charred bronze]

and part of it is just gaming maximum possible rampage uptime period

[rich carbon]

thinking Pinning Fire + Run & Gun?

[vast yoke]

honestly if it was a 30% boost I'd maybe run it sometimes but it's not even worth it on crowbar/saw cus that talent point could be doing sooooo much more

[manic wolf]

Is this for a full ranged build or as a sidearm?

[rich carbon]

sidearm

[manic wolf]

Yeah, then that'll be fine

[vast yoke]

yeah that's pretty ideal

[rich carbon]

this is for a knives / stimm supply build

[manic wolf]

Feels weird not having Speedload on them though im not gonna lie lmao

[vast yoke]

good sidearm for that

[vast yoke]

yeah it feels fine on non despo builds tbf

[tight musk]

It definitely applies to crowbar's heavies in special mode, bone saw rip on heavy 1, and most likely the rev attacks on chain weapons.

[vast yoke]

oh that's cool didn't know abt the revs

it's interesting but just. so niche

[manic wolf]

I still use it on those, its just a nice QoL upgrade

[vast yoke]

all of that for 15%

[dense hollow]

you have so many perks that give you damage

[vast yoke]

like damn

[dense hollow]

u dont need to gimp urself with cheap shots

[vast yoke]

yeah deadass

they should make it 30% or smth

[manic wolf]

Even then, its just too conditional

[rich carbon]

Flak/Maniac for shivs, or carapace?

this build doesn't have any other way of handling it, tbf the knives can open pretty well

[manic wolf]

15% damage for dodging, like it might not be active all that much, but its a low investment to meet the requirement, full staggers on opponents tend to have a resource cost associated in the form of blinders as thats where you'll be getting the longest opportunity to leverage it

[dense hollow]

u'll get 15% dmg for dodging in most fights when u need them

[rich carbon]

i don't think maniac makes any breakpoints

[vast yoke]

honestly on corks I run +2 stam + Cara%. 4% attack speed is good.

[rich carbon]

wait

[manic wolf]

Yeah, but the point is that its also conditional, but with easy requirements to meet, like 30% on cheapshots would be a good damage boost, but it would remain overly conditional

[rich carbon]

atkspd + cara??

[vast yoke]

there's a talent very easily accessible that gives you 2% atk speed per stamina

[dense hollow]

it is a much better condition in contrast to cheap shots since it requires a resource or a small part of the moveset of a weapon

[astral canyon]

Nowhere near as good as +25% damage vs x armor type though

[vast yoke]

eh

it's always there

cara unyielding is the sensible bet

[manic wolf]

Not to mention latch attacks are kinda icky

[rich carbon]

where at? i cant seem to find it

[vast yoke]

or cara elite

[manic wolf]

Particularly the Crowbar beak mode

Thats a rough time to leverage

[astral canyon]

Flakiac for shivs imo

Ol reliable

[vast yoke]

uhhh a little bit under enchanced despo

[rich carbon]

oh, it's Swift Endurance

[vast yoke]

yerp

[rich carbon]

that's not really accessible on this build

[vast yoke]

I highly recommend it on almost every build

[rich carbon]

here's the setup im looking at rn

that's 2 points I don't have

[vast yoke]

ditch blessed stims, exploding stim crate

[rich carbon]

i suppose blessed stimms isn't super needed

also isn't exploding crate really good

[vast yoke]

completely useless

[dense hollow]

its strange, im kinda okay with rev attacks but crowbar feels weird to me

[vast yoke]

it's ok

it's awkward and often whiffs and has 0 value on most instances

when it works it's nice

[rich carbon]

wow thats really noticeable actually

also im running chem bombs so I can just toss a bomb

er

[vast yoke]

if you really like you can ditch slide melee damage immunity too

[rich carbon]

the 3 stacks on explosion

[vast yoke]

I like that node a lot tho

[lavish parrot]

Dual 1911s are kinda hood for desperado I noticed

But that 14 round mag size is a nightmare

Reloads for the reload god

[charred bronze]

Question about Swift Endurance. It's about % of total stamina, right? Cuz equipping +3 stam curios does not increase dps

[vast yoke]

17 with talent

[charred bronze]

is stam on weapons different?

[vast yoke]

no it's stamina bars. +3 stamina absolutely does increase stacks.

different weps have different stamina yea

[lavish parrot]

Not exactly noticeable tbh

[vast yoke]

you can see your stacks on the buff bar

[vast yoke]

yeah not rlly but it's usually worth grabbing on despo dualies

[charred bronze]

Then maybe taxe has an attack speed cap that I'm already hitting? Cuz I tested the difference between 3x +3 stam curios and none last night, and consistently posted the same dps numbers bashing away with light spam on a crusher last night. Literally no difference in average dps.

[rich carbon]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a0a22c96-17f4-4bd7-aa58-e6277f8c5cf9
this look all good? basically chem support build

oop

gotta fix a thing

[vast yoke]

dps numbers the game shows you are very jank

[charred bronze]

I was using CombatStats

which might also be somewhat inaccurate, I don't know, but I can see differentials when using different stimm combos, different talents, etc.

makes no sense that stam curios would be different

[vast yoke]

then I dunno, I don't think it has a cap since I definitely get value from high stamina, adrenaline and rampage speed boosts

[broken moss]

it's been pretty consistent for me.

[charred bronze]

I also thought each point of additional stamina increased attack speed, btw, hence why I was running triple +3 in the first place

[vast yoke]

it does

I probably wouldn't overkill with all 3 slots

[exotic temple]

Yeah the magazine size kinda holds the gun back. You can invest heavily in reload speed but then it doesn’t have the damage youcan get from other options

[dense hollow]

psykanium bugs out sometimes

[vast yoke]

I run 1 toughness 2 +3 stams

[lavish parrot]

I wanna test brauto on desperado build

I am sure fast firing one is gonna be gas

[vast yoke]

it's ok. graia is fun

[rich carbon]

what are the most important stats on curios for hivescum

[broken moss]

3 Stam does nothing for that node in my testing

[charred bronze]

I'm not confident that it does. I'll test it again, and reset combat stats between each kill

[broken moss]

appears the buff is dependent on how many percent of your total pool is currently available

not the invisible number of your actual pools point value

[vast yoke]

3x toughness, gunner res is really nice since they melt you (at least they will after dodges get nerfed soon lol) then the last 3 your choice. ppl run a single 5% hp perk to avoid pox burst one shots on havoc

[rich carbon]

awesome

[lavish parrot]

Honestly I don't feel like dual 1911s really need any dmg buffs

[rich carbon]

no +3 stam?

[lavish parrot]

For melee builds you have sp attack that is stronger

[vast yoke]

really?

that's very odd

[lavish parrot]

For desperado does it really matter if you can just shoot infinitely

[broken moss]

you do get a benefit from stacking stam. but it's in that when you block or run, you lose less of your total pool

[dense hollow]

Hive scum has a lot of stamina but if u use a melee with low stamina like taxe you really want 1 +3 stam curio

[broken moss]

so you just maintain that buff longer through those activities

[rich carbon]

HS?

[tight musk]

Hive Scum.

[vast yoke]

I'm not sure I believe you honestly but I am too comfy in bed to check. Honestly if that's the case that's kinda hype. I can slot in more toughness XD

[rich carbon]

also isn't +3 stam basically +6 attack speed

[broken moss]

I run 1 stam

[dense hollow]

It is but for some weapons it literarily doubles available stamina

Taxe doubles its stamina

For one +3 curio

[vast yoke]

tax has like 2 stamina bars by default if I remember

[broken moss]

I was logging the exact same DPS over 10 attempts at killing a plogryn in meat grinder

[vast yoke]

abysmal dogshit haha

[vast yoke]

I mean you could just test it thru equipping a curioless build and a +9 stamina build and just visually verifying

I do not trust DPS tests

[broken moss]

it gives you more stamina but you don't get more attack speed

[lavish parrot]

Iirc it depends on weapon stamina and not like overall stamina you got

[dense hollow]

could be that it doesnt update properly if you change stamina curios in psykanium

[lavish parrot]

Which is why stuff like crowbar gets more stacks and shivs less

[vast yoke]

yearp

[broken moss]

maybe it's bugged. maybe it's an AS cap

[charred bronze]

mk VII taxe light spam on psychanium crusher, no buffs. All weakspot hits. Adrenaline allowed to fall before each test if it procs.

No stam curios
1159
1105
1190

3x +3 stam curios
1144
1058
1169

[tight musk]

If you go to the inspect menu it tells you how much stamina the weapon has.

[broken moss]

I did only test it with shivs

[vast yoke]

that literally could just be because you crit more on your first test though

tax doesn't do much to Crushers outside of crits

[charred bronze]

last night's testing numbers:
1186
1137
1162
1130
1137
1134
1161
1158

there's minimal variance and it's so many strikes that crits average out

[vast yoke]

hm

I'll check tomorrow I'm too sleeepyyy

[broken moss]

yea even your physical ability to maintain cadence is going to affect things a bit

[charred bronze]

the point is that most things that actually have an impact add 100-200 dps, with some much more than that

[charred bronze]

which is why I did 10 runs for each last night

but click spam is easy

and I discard any sequences where I miss a weakspot hit

[vast yoke]

doesn't combat stats or whatever have an attack speed section

[broken moss]

your DPS numbers seem low though

with shivs I was logging about 2400 on a plogryn

[charred bronze]

no buffs, just light spam, on carapace

[broken moss]

idk if ur tac axe is built or not

ah ok

[charred bronze]

I'm not going to max dps, I'm just trying to minimize variables

which is why I start each sequence as dry as possible

[broken moss]

yea

[charred bronze]

I am utterly convinced that stam curios do NOT interact with Swift Endurance

actually, I think I can test that with a stimm

[broken moss]

numbers don't matter so much as variance anyways. regardless of what you're hitting, you should see variance. I'm on my way home. I'm gonna do some tests with slower weapons and see what I get

cuz it may just be that shivs and other fast weapons are already near the cap

[charred bronze]

1363 on first sequence using a +16% attack speed stimm. Need to wait for cooldown to check others

[tight musk]

They do. You can load into the meat grinder, take off a stam curio, and you will see swift endurance lose stacks.

[broken moss]

if you got the mod that let's you enter content from the character select, just 'change character' and re enter

fastest way to reset cds

[charred bronze]

1399 with +16% stimm

it's very obvious to me that if the +3 stam curios were adding attack speed, it'd be very visible in combat stats

[broken moss]

and stimmed with rampage?

[charred bronze]

shouldn't matter, this is purely about how the attack speed affects dps. The numbers will just be higher, no?

1409

1408, 1 white hit

[broken moss]

well, optimally you'd have 3x 3 Stam curios. that's 9 extra Stam. the perk says 2% per stam. so if everything was correct you should be at 18% extra speed. which, yea, would equate to about an 18% damage boost

give or take

[charred bronze]

and what I'm saying is that I test them back to back, no stam curios, all 410+ +3 stam curios, and there is no significant dps variable between sequences

[broken moss]

yea

same results I was getting

[charred bronze]

with the +16% attack speed stim, I'm seeing average numbers that are approximately ~250 higher, consistently

[broken moss]

I'd chock it up to a meat grinder bug but my speed felt the same in missions

you should absolutely notice even a 10% increase

[charred bronze]

a meatgrinder bug where the curios aren't applying is possible

[broken moss]

but then in missions it would feel night and day

[charred bronze]

exactly

[dense hollow]

u could try loading into meatgrinder with no curios

[charred bronze]

and it doesn't

[dense hollow]

then load in with +3 stam curios

[charred bronze]

sure, I'll do zero curios

[broken moss]

you'd start swinging and be like "whoa shit*

[hasty agate]

Anyone know what the values are for the reductions of health and toughness in havoc 40?

[charred bronze]

I'll do one set each of those now

[charred bronze]

hm, how do you remove a curio?

short of deletion

[broken moss]

I don't think you can

[dense hollow]

uh u can just equio toughness

[broken moss]

you can only exchange

[charred bronze]

yeah, I'll do that

first test will be +3 stams since I already have those on

[hasty agate]

You have to equip a curio, save a loadout then sell the curio

[dim moth]

wound curio is technically zero value

[broken moss]

I do know the perk itself is working. cuz when rampage ends and your stamina dumps you FEEL that shit

[charred bronze]

+3 stams, 1104 with one white hit

[dim moth]

it SUCKS

actually made me put the stam recovery on dodge on my rampage build

[broken moss]

why I run 3x Regen

[charred bronze]

yeah, but you would, because of Swift Endurance itself

the talent works, just not with +stam curios.

[broken moss]

yea that's what I'm saying

[dim moth]

devastating

we must inform fatshark posthaste

[charred bronze]

+1 wound curios now

[broken moss]

if the perk itself was bugged you'd see no difference after a Stam dump

which is why I think it's tied to the percent pool of your stamina reserves, and not the amount of bars or whatever you have

[charred bronze]

1007, unusually low crits

I'll run it again

[hasty agate]

Is the -45% for toughness slapped onto the total value of toughness you have when you go in or something different?

[broken moss]

so you could theoretically have 1 stamina bar and as long as it was full you're getting the same benefit

[dense hollow]

its -45 toughness, not 45%

[charred bronze]

1013, one white hit

[hasty agate]

Ah I see

[charred bronze]

1095, all weakspot

[dense hollow]

i think u just take the flat toughness loss after calculations are done

i'll still run a +3 stam curio on my taxe build but its unfortunate that it appears to not work

for swift endurance

[charred bronze]

having more stamina is useful

[dense hollow]

yeah doubling stamina on taxe

miserable base stam

[charred bronze]

I'm just saying that it doesn't appear that +3 stam curios interact with attack speed granted by Swift Endurance. It seems to only take into account base stamina

[dense hollow]

that'd be like..8% attack speed on taxe? i think

assuming im remembering right and its 4 base stamina bars

[charred bronze]

1108, two toughness and one health curio, so consistent with the others

I'll try adding +2 stam on the weapon itself with this curio set

4% attack speed is gonna be hard to parse out though

[broken moss]

just not 3x stam useful

why I only run 1

[dense hollow]

1 stamina curio is enough to like nearly double your taxe stamina so it should be good enough for everything

[charred bronze]

1031 with +2 on weapon. Not promising

[dense hollow]

anything less than 2 toughness curios is gonna execute your toughness values too much to be worth it

[charred bronze]

oh, that's interesting, 1292. Could be a lucky run of crits, but you don't usually see that much variance

[broken moss]

I've ran 3 Stam in auric mael and been fine but it's definitely dicey

[charred bronze]

1076

1048

yeah, +2 stam on weapon ain't doing crap

[broken moss]

also, what are you testing on?

[charred bronze]

a crusher, with +25% carapace on the weapon

[broken moss]

nah don't do crusher

spawn a boss

you'll get more consistent results

[charred bronze]

I swapped out unyielding for +2 stam

honestly the target doesn't matter as long as I can do a fairly consistent number of swings

the numbers still average out

[broken moss]

ain't about the number it's the consistency. you'll see less spikes over an errant crit or two

[charred bronze]

we see averages go up with actual boosts (the attack speed stimm from earlier) we see them fall when those buffs aren't applying

[broken moss]

same reason DPS dummies in MMOs have 10 billion HP and take 5 minutes to kill

why I use plogryn. tankiest boss I know of

[charred bronze]

the variance is pretty small, that 1292 was a string of crits, and an outlier

those are rare

I don't have creature spawner installed atm. I don't think it makes that much of a difference for detecting whether buffs have an effect

in fact

[broken moss]

yea but that outlier can change perception. up to you. it's definitely more consistent with a boss

[charred bronze]

oh sure

take a lot longer to generate a sequence though, and I'm already getting the verification I want

[broken moss]

yea. lab ratting ain't easy

but I enjoy it sometimes

[charred bronze]

1214 with +4% attack speed stimm, first test

[broken moss]

random build, crowbar, normal formation (not beak), stimmed and rampaged. no stam curios at all

[charred bronze]

huh, that's weird. 998 with 4% attack speed stimm. A drop. Could be unlucky

1150

[broken moss]

same everything. left the grinder completely. put on 3 x2 stam curios

100 dps difference.

less even

[charred bronze]

which could be variance

[broken moss]

like 80

yea

IS variance

no way an extra 16% attack speed only gave me what, 4% damage?

[charred bronze]

yeah, I'm calling it myth busted. And it's hard af to test 4% attack speed. Variance basically erases the benefit

[broken moss]

if thats all its good for, its a pointless ability

[charred bronze]

you can test it for yourself. Use the +16% attack speed stimm

should be 200-300 more dps

presuming it lasts through the whole kill

[charred bronze]

I mean, I think damage will drop considerably wthout the talent

[broken moss]

same everything

except i deselected swift endurance

tellin u. its based of % level. not bars

[charred bronze]

so swift endurance is itself a solid dps increase

[broken moss]

yes

just not worth stamming ur curios

[charred bronze]

but I agree

or weapons

which kinda sucks

[broken moss]

i mean this is the slowest melee i have access to lol

if anything was going to benefit from AS and not cap out quickly, it would be this

[charred bronze]

it would be cool if you could accept the higher risk of doing that in exchange for more output

[broken moss]

probably be super OP tho

i already annihilate bosses

give me 15-18% more dps and shit be funny

[charred bronze]

yeah, it'd be amazing

still might be worth a bug report

[broken moss]

i dont think its bugged. i think they just did a piss job with yet another tooltip

"each current stamina" needs to have its terminology changed

it definitely works

[charred bronze]

no bug report forum on this discord eh?

[broken moss]

just not the way they made it sound like it would

idk. i dont think this is operated by fatshark

[charred bronze]

I thought this was the 'official' discord?

[broken moss]

official just means theyve endorsed and support it

[charred bronze]

typically those have a direct affiliation with the developer

[broken moss]

doesnt mean they themselves moderate and manage it

[charred bronze]

though the lack of bug report thread does lend some credence to endorsement rather than operation

[broken moss]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/c/darktide/technical-issues/93

i dont think its a bug, and even if it was good luck gettin a fix. HOJ flat does NOT work. at all. been months. no fix

[astral canyon]

It could also just be that its better for them to have the reports be on the official forums

[broken moss]

reports dont need to be public. its just bad management of social media options. some people dont like using forums.

[glacial gyro]

I am un-fucking-believable levels of done with rubberbanding and desynch

[scarlet burrow]

Have people tested the stub pistols vs auto pistols in depth? Which one is statistically better? I currently “feel” the stub pistol is slightly better at dealing with armored enemies whilst auto pistols are better at dealing with non armored enemies

[glacial gyro]

thats basically the gist of it, yes

stub pistols hit harder and are more accurate but autopistols fire faster

[tropic crag]

after careful analysis i have come to the conclusion that one goes "BRRRRT" and the other goes "BAP BAP BAP"

[glacial gyro]

autopistols are better for desperado builds, stubs are better as sidearms for rampage builds

[glacial gyro]

Its more like a BLAT BLAT

[rare stirrup]

Careful

[tropic crag]

lol i just use the needle tbh so all i know is my gun going "-----"

[glacial gyro]

?

[rare stirrup]

Nothing

[glacial gyro]

needle gun goes ₚₕₜ ₚₕₜ ₚₕₜ

@novel oracle You around? I want to discuss the merits of adrenaline vs chemdep for chaxe

[trim wind]

Daps just put out way more dmg

[glacial gyro]

not to mention that the DSPs niche of accurate long range special remover is done about two trillion times better by the revolver

[steep tendon]

I can't believe that I have to install another mod just to clearly see whether stims are on cooldown or not...

[tropic crag]

i can't hear it over the music and the noise of the heretics shouting

[tropic crag]

i got use to the slight difference between the two but yeah they should fix that

[tropic crag]

honestly i use any gun over the revolver only because i don't like the reload

amazing gun, but i hate one bullet at a time

[glacial gyro]

agri actually isn't bad on skoom

though obviously it remains inferior because it just doesn't pop trappers as reliably

[steep tendon]

This kind of UI design should be criminal.

[broken moss]

"dont worry guys. the purg psykers will keep up"

[novel oracle]

The crit doesnt do much for you cuz chaxe isn't really a crit weapon
You're trading a decent chunk of in/out of ability power for some tdr and lower ability downtime

[glacial gyro]

sounds about diaperado

[glacial gyro]

HOWEVER

adrenaline acts funky with the chainaxe because if the rip kills them it straight up just does not count

[broken moss]

when i woke up from my coma and saw that readout i was pretty amazed

[novel oracle]

If you want you could change to the weakspot hit one

Stacks slower but doesnt have that inconsistency

[glacial gyro]

As for my other thoughts, chaxe benefits massively from rampage uptime, as not only does rampage solve all of the weapon's drawbacks, it pushes its strengths to ridiculous levels (namely, it turns the thing into a rocket powered freight locomotive on a stick). So my thought is that just... Having rampage up more would be good. However, adrenaline, when up, doubles down on that hard.

Choices choices

Its also suprisingly tricky to find a moment to stim between rampages sometimes

so cdr stim is not always the answer

[broken moss]

https://tenor.com/view/jackie-chan-meme-what-confused-huh-gif-8100987420682883146

i just build my stim to time fairly well so its ready right after rampage ends.

pop it immediately after

[glacial gyro]

Let me rephrase that: CDR stim is amazing and I always use it. But if things are really hectic that second you spend using it can actually get you killed.

[broken moss]

yea for sure

but they dont really have anything defensive that would help in those situations terribly to consider adding to it

TDR would be nice but idk if speccing that far up that tree is the business

[glacial gyro]

Its more a consideration that passive CDR from chemdep keeps ticking in that situation

[broken moss]

ah see i dont use chem dep

adrenaline on all my builds. i HAVE a chem dep build but i have yet to feel amazing with it

[glacial gyro]

Neither do I, just thinking about reasons to do so, if there are any

[broken moss]

just the crit imo. but like, what good is crit without the AS from adrenaline?

feels sluggish without it

[tropic crag]

adren is just a "it works" set of nodes

[glacial gyro]

rampage saw maybe? Saw has negative interactions with adrenaline and gets a lot of benefits from the chem tree

[sinful matrix]

Not at all. Use an autoclicker

Or a full-auto rifle

[tropic crag]

i run saw adren tbh, like take alot of the right side stuff at the bottom but i use adren with bonesaw

[glacial gyro]

I take it you just dont use smiter

[broken moss]

i do love me some things that just work

[tropic crag]

yeah i take the bottom 3 nodes to make getting it smoother

[broken moss]

no maintenance, just free real estate

[glacial gyro]

Yeah same

its why I like the chaxe, there are tough enemies and chaff enemies, you use heavies for one and lights for the other (depending on mark)

the 4 still feels awkward to me

[tropic crag]

like i'm constantly moving around nodes here and there as i'm testing to see if stuff works better but this is more or less how i run rampage bonesaw on the bottom of the tree

[glacial gyro]

interesting

not the cleave nodes?

[tropic crag]

i don't rely on the cleave much tbh

[broken moss]

yea u def want cleave on bone saw

my bone saw bottom half

[tropic crag]

i've been chopping through things pretty find by pushstabbing and using the heavy 2 when needed

i will never give up like the wind, it has made me so lazy at dealing with gunner swarms

[winter galleon]

can just put the immunity on sprint on needler and bum rush them

[sinful matrix]

Suppose it depends what dif you're on

Havoc with the hitmass mods it has makes cleave necessary

regular difs and its like whatever, take it or leave it

[tropic crag]

works fine up to auric maelstrom with hyperdense... but yeah i would have to tweak for havoc

and even then maybe not since i do so much head whacking... i treat it kind of like a hammer and move around alot bonking heads

[sinful matrix]

Like, even Ogryn with 50 cleave on most of his heavy attacks gets a noticeable buff from +cleave in havocs

Actually I think its 32 on the knives and goes up from there, but you get the point

[tropic crag]

yeah, but honestly if i'm grinding havoks i'm probably not taking bonesaw, i love it but theres smoother options for havok

at least for me

[sinful matrix]

Yeah, right tool for the job and all that

Why sweat your nuts off harder than you have to in something that's already grossly sweaty

[tropic crag]

with how agressively i play sometimes i need to be able to get that bonus sprint angle and dodge on no stam while also being able to do melee things

[tropic crag]

yeah lol, like i don't mind havoks sometimes but if i'm just playing for fun i'll be chillin in aurics, now adays i play tide to chill most of the time

so most of my builds reflect that

[broken moss]

whats the largest enemy that would actually be affected by pinning fire on DAPs?

largest as in tankiest. highest hp pool

[sinful matrix]

Beast of Nurgle

and it always has been

Pretty sure Cspawn and Plogryn were patched to not get absolutely fucking yeeted by pinning fire

[tropic crag]

outside of scum insta deleting bosses the bosses feel in a good place atm

[sinful matrix]

Ogryn can kill a boss in like 10 pick swings, or mash mouse 1 with the mk3b basher

Veteran does. . . vet things

Arbites just stands there menancingly and the boss dies

Zealot and Psyker both obliterate bosses with their two-handed sword

So. . . not like scum is any different in this regard

[neat delta]

Scum

[tropic crag]

sorry, i meant tox scum... like yeah everyone can solo them but the tox scum builds in particular can melt bosses so when one is on the team there are no boss fights

giving almost shade like vibes but not quite

like the effort involved for the payoff is what i mean i guess

[limber cradle]

Power Sword lol

[winter galleon]

What was that? Buff power sword? Got it

[limber cradle]

Revert the nerf

7 swing PS

[winter galleon]

Nah lets go 12 swing power cycler

And add stacking bonus damage per swing as well

[tropic crag]

cause when i'm playing bonesaw scum it feels like the boss dies whenever i decide that it does, like the team will be fighting it when i'm doing other things then suddenly i'm like "oh yeah" and then its just dead the instant i did anything in its direction

[winter galleon]

And last hit does chain explosion. We can keep going

[dim moth]

bypass captain shield maybe?

[low harbor]

vet guide out btw

[dim moth]

already saw

pinned in my darktide friend group for the explanation of game mechanics

very cool

[low harbor]

no comments besides sirolsky lol

[dim moth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1450895763432411320/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2025.12.17_-_08.34.05.11.mp4?ex=6946d67a&is=694584fa&hm=4c3492233696e8943767bc2e16b01f2c3b6a4f80ff0cec163a55eae1f5e99b56& true

tox scum is definitely the most damage relative to the safety though

you barely have to touch the boss for it to die

[limber cradle]

Dump 6 needle shots into a boss and profit

[tropic crag]

Yeah this is basically my point.... It feels too hands off even when I'm using it

[broken moss]

thing is, its just passive damage. the build will be as hands-on as you make it. tox is just giving you more of a different type of damage

[tropic crag]

yeah and i think the tox damage on monsters is slightly too high, i'm not saying nuke it from orbit but just like... a slight bit of downward movement in the top end of the stacks

like if they only curbed the top end of the dot stacks then it would still be super strong without doing the entire job itself

unless thats what fs want i guess lol

[limber cradle]

I think it's funny the disease and chemical weapons god is getting fucked up by tox

[broken moss]

i mean really, most of whats being displayed in that video is just gun scum being gun scum with an auto gun

tox is strong for sure but its not like thats what did all that damage lol

[tropic crag]

oh yeah i wasn't talking about the video exactly i was responding to a later point past the video in relation to what i was talking about... gun scum itself is another issue

[broken moss]

facts

but like if u run a tuned saw build, its definitely strong. and the tox does a lot. but its not like zealot one shotting shit lol

[limber cradle]

It feels like less of a gimmick tho

Like a tox build feels equally good at killing whatever

Zealot one shot builds normally suffer for horde clear ime

[tropic crag]

yeah tox builds are just good all around, its why i think just curbing the top end can help keep it basically nearly op while letting boss fights kind of happen again

[charred bronze]

I just mean that it'll get lost in the variance and I'd have to do a large number of tests to average out the expected increase

[high gull]

It's all fun and gamaes til you misstep

Then you suddenly go from op to liability

[tropic crag]

lol you can take nodes to make those misteps matter less tbh, with only really dumb mistakes making you go down

because the damage nodes are so strong already you don't lose much damage either

but yeah when you do actually mess up mess up, your hp is shown to be an on off switch and you get switched to off

[charred bronze]

what's the build that does this look like? I haven't done much of anything with tox yet

[tropic crag]

that ones probably just a gun scum build with the crit tox talents if i had to guess at a glance

[broken moss]

i was lookin at it, hes a vet.

[tropic crag]

oh i didn't even make it bigger to check

[broken moss]

i thought it was just takin chem dep with the buff on toxed enemies

[tropic crag]

yeah vets can do that stuff but they aren't universally good when they take nuke builds like that

[broken moss]

thats also a curated situation with all possible ducks lined up

[charred bronze]

so the 'melee critical strikes' part of Coated Weaponry is a lie?

[broken moss]

coated only works for melee

[tropic crag]

no i'm just very dumb

[charred bronze]

lol no you're not. Game has a lot going on. We all screw up from time to time

[broken moss]

but if he had toxed enemies nearby i think the damage boost would work

[tropic crag]

i don't use guns enough so my info on gun based things can be spotty

i'm too bonk brained

[tropic crag]

yeah this would work

[charred bronze]

toxin mania is only 15%, though that is base damage

which gets multiplied by everything, right?

[broken moss]

yea. and 15% aint peanuts lol

shit adds up

[charred bronze]

I remember someone talking about base damage being the best kind of damage increase because of how it interacts or something.

[broken moss]

i dont run it on my gun scum but it may be nutty

[charred bronze]

Dependarado seems strong

if you don't want to be invincible shooty guy, being always ammo free emptying mags shooty guy seems good

[tropic crag]

if i remember right its because of where it lands on the equation, it turns other gains into bigger gains i think? but idk i literally quit computer science stuff because i hate math lol

[broken moss]

#hivescum-class message

"strong"

[high gull]

The main thing that matters is

[broken moss]

[high gull]

Why the fuck haven't we been included in the shop rotation

[brittle sierra]

Desperado deez

[charred bronze]

lul. Was that you?

[charred bronze]

don't deserve it

[broken moss]

yes

[high gull]

https://media.rockstargames.com/rockstargames/img/global/news/upload/whack.gif

[charred bronze]

way I see your build?

[broken moss]

i dont have that one loaded up on game lantern

next time im on ill try to remember to make it

but its kinda hard to mess up. just pick all the gun shit

then que up and faceroll

https://tenor.com/view/indeztv-indez-faceroll-indez-faceroll-keyboard-roll-gif-21390062

[low harbor]

it's just damage

it's additive with other +damage bonuses

[charred bronze]

mostly wondering about the tox talents. Like, which ones are actually critical to making the thing work

[broken moss]

i said i dont use tox on that

thats just raw gun scum bullshit

[charred bronze]

oh, is that just good old vulturado?

[high gull]

Sample collector is a must if you run crate

Or just general stimm use

[low harbor]

sample collector
pocket toxin (blackout)

the rest are pretty meh

[high gull]

Vulturade

For a healthy and balanced breakfast

[low harbor]

toxic renewal is pretty good but buried too deep

[charred bronze]

I tried it on a rampage variant. Definitely noticed the added durability, but I like adrenaline a lot

[charred bronze]

daps?

I keep going back and forth on IAG and daps

[broken moss]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0a27793-6061-4d13-afe5-71acc236cbf5/face-roller-scum

i dont play it much but i normally use twin stubs. but peak damage is definitely DAPs. i havent tried others tho

[charred bronze]

haven't tried IAG?

[broken moss]

nah I don't like the gun

may be powerful but I've just never felt good using it

[limber cradle]

Tbh

I prefer the DAPs to the IAG

The damage gain from the IAG doesn't outweigh the mobility the DAPs have for me

[devout vault]

what's the difference between the two modes of the needle pistol?

is there any difference besides the detonation on death?

I forgor

[charred bronze]

base version stacks dot faster, so it's better

[plucky nymph]

the extra stacks never changes your shots to kill for the most part and the aoe is just ammo dump cause it sucks as any clearance gun so it doesnt really matter what u use tbh, might as well use the higher stack one so something can die a lil faster

[bronze glade]

the tox spread one is good if you really want to min max sample collector

and sweat your balls off swapping weapons every few kills

too much work for me

[charred bronze]

I find that the IAG lends itself to a burst, burst, burst style of play. I think the build benefits from mag dumping with daps. Just feels better

[loud herald]

gamers

what would yall recommend on a stimm supply build for havoc for the stimm lab

I went top right with crit chance buffs

i'm only using stimm supply because of the dumbass dogshit blight poop on ground affix in havoc

[brittle sierra]

I would post mine but everyone thinks it's cheeks 😔

You know what fuck it

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[loud herald]

i'll try it

why not

[brittle sierra]

Gracias senor

[loud herald]

np

i'll ping you with results

(I don't have scoreboard mod so it'll be feels based)

xd

[tender marten]

I'm a big fan of bottom left and top right in any configuration. Cooldown reduction is also nice if we don't have a Psyker.

15s of stun immunity for an entire team tho is kinda

awesome

[limber cradle]

I find i generally agree+DAPs feel better in close range where scum wants to be

[brittle sierra]

I just wish dependency was stimm CDR instead of useless regular CDR