hivescum-class

[astral sundial]

Just endless tox spread

[hollow mural]

dodges are always up so i didnt go for fervor

[limber cradle]

My favorite tbh

[dim moth]

the +distance and speed stack with eachother

and you get comically fast dodges and high mobility

[brittle sierra]

Nah dodge distance by itself is worth it

Dodge speed also lets you do some stupid shit

[hollow mural]

anyways, is there a ranged weapon yall like for melee Scum

[low harbor]

What’s the point of CDR for crate

[astral canyon]

needler

[brittle sierra]

For the rest of my team

[low harbor]

Dual 1911s

[astral canyon]

1911s also good

[hollow mural]

i was thinking that but it is missing what i need from the build. stagger/ easy elite kills

like flamers snipers

maybe trappers if they are being smart

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515648206512168/1448045832527020103/Screenshot_2025-12-09_151638.png?ex=6941be45&is=69406cc5&hm=4b1a4e5d393074589dc4faae6e20d293a7e6992c341a7c23128c9a91a3b693ed&

[astral canyon]

needler does have easy specialist/elite kills

[low harbor]

I use this

[hollow mural]

its harder to get through a crowd on it

its great dps

its insane

[astral canyon]

what weapons?

[hollow mural]

but when theres 5 enemies in my way needler isnt what i ened

[hasty agate]

Did you try bolt pistol?

[hollow mural]

that was other option

[low harbor]

Rashad III combat axe (unarmored, carapace, brutal momentum, headtaker)
dual 1911s (maniac, flak, run&gun, sustained fire)

[hollow mural]

thats def more hybrid

[low harbor]

I hav scoreboard to show for this build too but prob not needed

[low harbor]

there's like 3 whole talents on that build that's ranged-only

[hollow mural]

theres like 5

[low harbor]

huh

[hollow mural]

in your face

quick and deadly

sticky hands

[hasty agate]

It would be good, point blank/puncture would be legit for what you’re thinking about.

[low harbor]

this one isn't actually

[hollow mural]

pickpocket

it says close RANGED damage

[low harbor]

yea ik

[hollow mural]

melee doesnt get a buff

[astral canyon]

its all damage

dont ask why

[hollow mural]

it says ranged

[low harbor]

it gives near_damage, applies to global dmg

[hollow mural]

so its all

fucking stupid TT

[low harbor]

it does not do what it says it does

[hollow mural]

either way

theres still what 4 more i named

[low harbor]

3

in your face, sticky hands, pickpocket

and tbh u could drop them all but I basically took every dmg bonuses that mattered for melee

[hollow mural]

i went for the blitz cd and chem on crit

seems only diff between our bilds

builds

[low harbor]

chem on crit one is basically just to enable sample collector, toxin mania and toxic renewal

it's not much on its own

esp if hypercrit also taken

[hollow mural]

im running sample

[low harbor]

idk I think speed/str is better for stim crate

[hollow mural]

so 1911, bolt pistol or combat shotty

[low harbor]

boltpistol needs some dedicated ranged spec to hit 1 taps on gunner/flamer

[hollow mural]

gunners are whatever, its more flamer

i really want stagger

[brittle sierra]

Is 1911s even that good?

[manic wolf]

I use the splash Boltpistol on melee Scum, the two shot breakpoints are kinda worth the CC, which allows taking the RPG whilst maintaining most of the Blackout's utility

[low harbor]

no

[limber cradle]

You use em cause you like em ime

[manic wolf]

They're alright, very fun, but not amazing

[drowsy relic]

they get a solid "They're alright"

[low harbor]

but
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1448581898925248614/6489301.MP4?ex=6941b746&is=694065c6&hm=ee72ab3bfac8b7e8ad4150536319be0796d42dd7960fd9077d8bc553845dee1c&

[drowsy relic]

it is so cool

[low harbor]

dual 1911s' dmg is basically balanced for havoc's hp pool

[lunar hamlet]

How do u get sacred gear in this game ???

[low harbor]

it's 2~3hs kill on priority targets in a game mode where most 1-tap guns have extremely strict 1 taps and usually take 2

so it ends up being ~same kills between reloads as boltpistol

but unlike boltpistol it shoots straight

[broken moss]

bad gun scummers

[drowsy relic]

It feels great as like build filler

You going full melee dual pistols why not they're fun

[manic wolf]

Honestly I feel like AoE mk on Boltpistol is super slept on for Scum

[low harbor]

the aoe boltpistol mark is abysmal dogshit

they managed to improve upon dogshit to create dogshit+

[wind crane]

you mean sanctified? i thnk thats a mod

[manic wolf]

In terms of breakpoints yes, but you're not using it for that on melee Scum, there is nothing a good melee setup cant delete, the problem is usually getting to them, which that gun massively aids in

[drowsy relic]

It's fascinatingly bad

The weapons team confuses me at times

How did the same people make the arbites shock maul, Shiver and needle pistol

[broken moss]

i just dont know if i can justify this

[drowsy relic]

And also the power falchion

[low harbor]

we went from arb shield + maul
to falchion

[hollow mural]

or im just better

[broken moss]

even a mediocre gun scum should make ur life miserable

[hollow mural]

considering ive have more than a few

no

they cant

[low harbor]

it depends

[broken moss]

when i play daps i make it my mission not to let anything survive on my screen

[drowsy relic]

The DAPs are also mmm

Love the dual auto pistols

[manic wolf]

If a Gunscum has even two functioning neurons, the majority of your kills in a match are gonna be armour

[broken moss]

pretty much

[low harbor]

idk

[drowsy relic]

Until the poop bomb

[broken moss]

look at things while holding lmb. instant top damage

[low harbor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1178201323003465748/1448171404414423154/image.png?ex=69418a78&is=694038f8&hm=ef203b5200810c74252fdd75a85faf68a6815a95427c03799c7e500f56b6bbd5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=948&height=544

I-II-V-EG (scurvy is me)

gale played ranged hvs

it depends

[broken moss]

the fact that u had more kills than him is indicative

[manic wolf]

Not massively. Gunscum is oppressively broken if played well

[broken moss]

it shouldnt be possible. he has access to all the enemies you do, and more

perhaps he chose to play his role out more and looked for longer range targets.

[tropic crag]

also sometimes people just play a bit more lazy and don't greed chase kills

[manic wolf]

Like people complain about Psyker being able to hit everything on the screen, but even Psyker is small fry to how strong Gunscum is

[broken moss]

yea that too. all depends on how sweaty u wanna be

[manic wolf]

The shit needs to get utterly shitcanned

[tropic crag]

yeah i think it needs to be retooled a bit... and man are we going to hear alot of complaining if it ever does

[pine steppe]

Is the hive scum awesome?

Like what’s the most broken build right now?

[near mauve]

it very much is

[near mauve]

this is a melee game

[broken moss]

it's real easy to steal the show

[near mauve]

if you're good u top frag its that simple

[broken moss]

you misspelled *was

[near mauve]

still is

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. it was a melee game

[broken moss]

nah. that ended December 2nd

[near mauve]

just because a class can spam ranged doesnt mean melee characters cant dominate lmao

play above damnation

[broken moss]

they can

when said gun scum aren't present

or are just, for whatever reason, not trying

[manic wolf]

There is a reason we moved away from swords and what not in reality and its one of the few things that translates to a game; Being able to kill stuff at a distance tends to be more effective than having to close that gap to do your killing

[near mauve]

that

that's not how it works

[tropic crag]

they can steal alot of the fun tbh, even if you're really good at melee you shouldn't have to just pick at the scraps that one single player leaves behind. pretending that 1 persons fun at the cost of 3 is actually good for the game is silly... its why, historically, things have always been toned down when they start cost the fun of 3

[broken moss]

the entire game mechanic of having to be judicious with your ammo and conserve for real necessary situations and whatnot simply does not apply to them

[near mauve]

u can do this with every class rn tho

go inferno psyker and dont leave anyone anything

if you're a cracked zealot u can just be perma 1 shotting everything

[broken moss]

people don't much like playing with those either

[near mauve]

vet can just spam his funny powersword and infinite nades

[broken moss]

but at least they're limited by range

[near mauve]

ogryn can just w+

ectectect

[tropic crag]

most of them have harder access and naw inferno psykers can at worst steal the fun of one person at a time, zealot just can't steal the fun because you can just run along side them

[near mauve]

i have infact had my fun stolen by few cracked zealot friends

[tropic crag]

gluggers can, which is why you don't see the good oggy players play glugger often tbh

[manic wolf]

Guns are strong in this game, like really strong, thats why the ammo limitations are in place (and why they nerfed Suvivalist a while back), having one class that can ignore those limits, ignore ranged enemies, and ignore most melee attacks provided they're moving results in something extremely broken. It doesnt take a genius to see that

[broken moss]

inferno psykers hard to play with as melee cuz of what it does to your screen ☠️

can't see shit

[near mauve]

this isnt my argument tho

the argument is u can still dominate without it

even with a gun spammer on your team

ranged spam is not new believe it or not
vet recon lasgun builds exist

[broken moss]

I have yet to be challenged in the least bit by any melee class in the game while playing DAP

[manic wolf]

It sort of is. Again, if someone has even two functioning neurons they are going to out-DPS you vs almost every target. They can apply damage faster than you can, they can do it from further away, and there is nothing limiting their ability to do that

[near mauve]

you're not gonna be challenged by anything in the normal board

that's just how broken the game is

[tropic crag]

thats more a skill gap then anything tbh, because the zealot can only have so much access to enemies at one time... where a gun scum can have a MUUUUUUCH wider view and reach of the field. This is also why pyro psyker isn't as fun stealing... because they have a more limited force projection. gun scum force projection is the same as simbas... everything the light touches

[broken moss]

it takes no skill and just obliterates everything for the least investment

[dim moth]

I mean I haven't either but I hardly think its ever the builds fault that I can dominate lobbies completely and utterly as gun psyker

Or gun scum

Or recon vet

[cedar cairn]

Ranged spam is fine because none of my teammates were using those guns (there are 12 gunners on screen)

[near mauve]

skill and also just being able to 1-2 shot everything while burning all hordes with flamer

[broken moss]

yea strong is one thing but like even on gun psyker people have a chance

[dim moth]

they really don't

I can infact smother a lobby entirely by myself as gun psyker if I don't actively slow down to avoid running ahead of them lol

[broken moss]

if you got out damaged as dap scum is skill issue

and it ain't close

[manic wolf]

This is kinda the issue. If you're already a competant player, playing Gunscum is the same level of brain activity you have whilst sleeping. It requires no timing, no meaningful inputs from the player, no complex thought, you just press W and LMB to victory

[tropic crag]

1 to 2 shots are the norm, thats never the problem and you're totally missing the problem if you think thats what bothers people. Its the fact that the gunscum can 1 tap everything while standing still at the best los spot and jump from target to target at the cost of nothing because of their range and angle of attack being much wider than anything we've seen before besides the glugger

[broken moss]

and it's strictly the ammo economy

[tropic crag]

and the glugger will keep being a problem as well tbh

[dim moth]

Gun Scum has things that hard wall it like crushers and monstrosities tbh

[broken moss]

like everything else is on par. but pick pocket is just stupid overtuned

[dim moth]

don't really have good fast options for those

even rending stim+rending desperado still isn't fast into crushers

[tropic crag]

if they're not meta chasers and are actually ok players then its not a wall at all

[near mauve]

most scummers i run into are kissing the floor cause u need to know how to actually dodge to play this class

[broken moss]

that's for my peasant melee folk to deal with

[manic wolf]

I dont even know that thats true. Being immune to ranged is a massive boost to its effectiveness, as is Vuture's Dodge. Im not saying Pickpocket isnt fucked, because it is. But its not limited to that

[broken moss]

[near mauve]

while u can shut the game off easier with other classes simply because everyone's tanky now including psyker

[broken moss]

this is a byproduct of havoc, and casuals that want to say they can do h40 complaining to fatshark

most likely

[near mauve]

also again, normal board has been easy for months unless its a very specific malestrom or everyone in the lobby is bad so none of this matters
true test of skill is sadly not aurics

[tropic crag]

you're talking melee scum which is the exact opposite of what the entire talk was about. melee scum needs to dodge, range scum just need to kite

[manic wolf]

Ranged Scum barely even needs to do that

[hollow mural]

he must be fun at parties

[tropic crag]

yeah, but they do need to every once in a while

[near mauve]

im the most fun at parties yes

[broken moss]

my most recent auric mael on melee scum. i dont go down often. honestly

[manic wolf]

I get people are attached to Gunscum, because its fun to play every now an then, but lookin at it in terms of balance an its HORRENDOUS.

[tropic crag]

lol honestly whenever someone talks about "true tests of skill" and stuff instead of "guys look at the funny hat i put on my guy" i just assume they're alot newer at the game then me and decide to give them grace while they're in the honeymoon period

[broken moss]

except nobody plays havoc. the "game" is on the base board.

unless ur a giga sweat. then havoc 30+ is ur playground.

[hollow mural]

on crackling i tend to do 800kish on auric mael

[near mauve]

nah they balance around havoc now its very much evident

[tropic crag]

i think they can keep it fun AND a bit over tuned but make it so its more fun to play along side

[near mauve]

so most of the base board is just a cakewalk

[broken moss]

doesnt matter if they did. nobody plays it

[tropic crag]

thats a bold way to say you don't actually understand design enough to make a judgement call like that

[broken moss]

like i can hardly find a pf group goin for it to even get a weekly done

[broken moss]

yet runs end all the time cuz people wipe

[cedar cairn]

Hearing everyone say shit is too easy feels like I'm playing a different game watching my Auric squadmates try to revive in front of snipers

[broken moss]

yea dont pay attention to it.

[manic wolf]

I dunno man. Having unlimited freeloads during Ult is the only bit of the core Gunscum setup I would keep if I had a say.

No Vulture's Dodge, no immunity to ranged, Pickpocket given a 30s cooldown and only procced via melee kills on elites.

[hollow mural]

you also looking at the "um achtually" people

[near mauve]

im not sure how my understanding of game design changes the fact that every class got giga buffed while the base board barely saw any actual changes to difficulty? we're playing character 3x as strong as character pre rework but facing enimies on the same level of strength

[broken moss]

for some who been playin this shit that long yea its "easy" especially if they have acclimatized to havoc 40

but that doesnt invalidate the challenge auric still provides to 99.9% of players

[dim moth]

I don't really think the game's difficulty is in a bad state right now tbh

Like I'm capable of doing havoc 40s and having fun doing them

But I still die in aurics occasionally to skill issues

And god knows my friends who do not have the unholy hours that I do on this game are getting minced

[broken moss]

idk about timelines but auric is a new addition

[near mauve]

i dont think its bad its just very incosistent
aurics entirely depend on how many good players are present and more than 2 usaully means the game is kinda easy and im saying this as a mid player

so im not even bragging or whatever

[broken moss]

damnation used to be the max difficulty

[compact valley]

is adrenaline frenzy worth it for a rampage build ? The stims I prefer using just dont line up well for that keystone

[broken moss]

so they HAVE increased base game difficulty, at some point

[brittle sierra]

What about you?

[tropic crag]

because you're confusing yourself as the majority and you've lost touch with the playerbase. Like i said before i get you're in the honeymoon period where you got good at game so you're proud, we've all been there... but alot of people need those "giga buffs" to compete at auric.... eventually when you're good at these games for long enough you'll realize your skill mostly only means you spent too long playing the game and not that you're a better person than people who have less time... i'd rather they ignore player like us for balancing and balance for the average player

[dim moth]

they did also semi-recently make aurics harder

[tropic crag]

because more people who get to tide the better

[broken moss]

they added a ton of crusher hp from what i understand

idk when but yea.

[hardy maple]

as someone who stays on the normal board i can say it heavily depends on the team sometimes damnation still decides to just fuck you with spawns, heck ive had heresy do it before

[dim moth]

no not that bit before that

when they reworked the difficulty systems to remove the pointless ones

[brittle sierra]

Get on Havoc

Embrace the cheese 🧀

[hardy maple]

hasnt happened in awhile with heresy, when it happened it felt more like the director breaking

[dim moth]

they mde auric a real difficulty you can select instead of literally just "Damnation but with forced hi-intensity modifiers"

[hardy maple]

im scared captain, ive never even played a maelstrom or auric

[pine steppe]

Anyone rocking an overpowered build? I just got the hive scum

[dim moth]

Meaning the already forced hi-intensity auric missions, can now also roll hi-intensity again ontop of that

[broken moss]

im sure its seen some tweaks. i can say its team dependent for me. auric maels with good teammates feel like a breeze. but thats just not the case in random que

[brittle sierra]

Scumin deez

[hardy maple]

i dont wanna be the reason my team wipes

is really what it is

shitty feeling

[tropic crag]

auric is fun and comfy, dive in and enjoy the water man

[brittle sierra]

Then don't be

It's that shrimple 🦐

[near mauve]

i have no idea what you're about man
im not new to the game or in my honeymoon period, ive been playing for like 16 months? now, basically when unlocked and loaded dropped
and im not even that good so my goal isnt bragging here cause if u wanna brag then u actually need to do something noteworthy and i havnet really done anything wild to speak of

[tropic crag]

if you can play damnation ok, then you won't be the reason your team wipes, your team will wipe as a team

[tropic crag]

that is incredibly new to the game... i actually thought you'd been playing for 2 or 3 years when i called you new

[near mauve]

500 hours is new?

[hardy maple]

yea thats a wild statement

[near mauve]

this isnt counter strike idk

[brittle sierra]

I think anyone can get into Aurics easily

If they understand one important aspect of the game 😈

[tropic crag]

to someone whos been playing for 10 years yes a year and some change is new

[manic wolf]

You're in a chat with people who have multiple thousand hours

This game has been out a while and people have had a long time to get practiced

[hardy maple]

the game hasnt even been out for 10 years, unless your counting vermintide

[reef skiff]

didnt the game come out like 3 years ago or something

[brittle sierra]

How old is this game????? 😈

[tropic crag]

yes i am counting the tide series because i was talking about people who brag at being good at them

[near mauve]

anyway i simply want them to make the enimies tougher in more creative ways and make aurics more challenging, kinda like havoc 25-30 diff without cancer havoc stuff
would be pretty cool!

[tropic crag]

i also played war of the roses but thats not a tide game at all lol

[manic wolf]

Basically all of us want that, but thats not the problem we're discussing

[hardy maple]

give me enemy density where i am always cutting through enemies the whole way

literally

[near mauve]

i guess that's fair enough

but still im not doing whatever u described before

[brittle sierra]

What's the most important skill to have in this game?

[tropic crag]

aurics are in a fine spot, if they want to add more challenge i think they should tweak how maelstrom works tbh

[manic wolf]

Should have picked up the game when they first put Auric in and the director would break and never stop spawning stuff

[hardy maple]

the ability to be aware of whats going on around you and react accordingly

[brittle sierra]

Smh my head 😔

[hardy maple]

thats literally what im talking about. but it wasnt just auric

[hardy maple]

?!

are you telling me im wrong

[reef skiff]

"erm you're 500 hours in, you're still new" i knew the community was fuckin elitist but goddamn

[near mauve]

less dog spam and more stuff like monster maels and armor maels

[tropic crag]

like aurics atm feel like cata does in vt2, i think its in a perfect comfy spot... the top normal difficulty in a tide game should be comfy to people who are great at the game

[near mauve]

eh in this case i dont think bro was bragging

he was telling me to come down to earth

[brittle sierra]

I see people in with 4k and trapped in malice 😔

[near mauve]

except im already average

so there's nothing to come down to

[brittle sierra]

Yes try again

Because sure being aware of your surroundings is important but that is every game

[hardy maple]

i mean i can think of at least 3 different things it could be

[tropic crag]

no i was talking about the amount of years played and them still being in the honeymoon period of being good, but if you want to think i'm an asshole you can

[hardy maple]

stamina and dodge management, staying near your team as best you can, killing enemies effectively

[broken moss]

this is the issue with anything pve. at some point the game just gets "solved" and theres nothing anyone can really do to find challenge because its all programmed AI and short of just shoving cheesy shit at you like what havoc does, its hard to feel like you are struggling

[brittle sierra]

No you are being too abstract

[tropic crag]

lol i am sorry if i was being too much of an ass to you, i just ate for the first time in 24 hours so i'm probably grumpy

[hardy maple]

then help me scope into the right area at least

[near mauve]

nah its fine

its just discord bro

[brittle sierra]

No

[near mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1231286447131328544/1385725199068037270/caption.gif

[hardy maple]

correct blessings and weapon stats?

perks

talent builds

synergy

[manic wolf]

Eh, yesnt, though at that point you risk making the game un-fun, which is what Havoc has done for many of us, its a fine line, but yes after a while the challenge can feel like its dropped off

[brittle sierra]

No it's soo simple but the problem is you either know it or don't

[compact valley]

which keystone is best ?

[hardy maple]

you are just being needlessly obtuse at this point

[tropic crag]

its why i preach aiming to have fun over winning... yes winning is fun but everything is strong enough in the game to have both at the same time

[brittle sierra]

I'm honestly not

[hardy maple]

not even a hint?

its probably something i have to

i think im good at the game

decent*

[tropic crag]

the ever present design problems is games of "what is too much pressure"

[brittle sierra]

I'm trying to get you to massage your brain 🧠

[compact valley]

Snort a fat line from your stimlab and call it a day

[broken moss]

i just play to play. winning is fun to me. feeling like im overcoming challenges. i dont much like losing and thats not fun for me. the game provides adequate challenge and if it didnt, id simply not play it anymore.

as long as im challenged and still capable of logging some wins im happy

[manic wolf]

I dont know that its a matter of pressure, its just an amount of tolerable (or not so tolerable) bullshit after a certain point

[low harbor]

auric is supposed to be the cata equivalent in this game now

havoc is meant to be closer to modded

[hardy maple]

well im on 14 hours no sleep and tired, so honestly not a good time

[tropic crag]

yeah and i think they've currently got it in a really good place for that, i love cata in vt2

[hardy maple]

positioning?

its not abstract, its simple

[brittle sierra]

You are being too abstract, be more specific

[broken moss]

havoc is just nuts. though i heard this new run is supposed to be better

everything about the last run had me noped out

https://tenor.com/view/nope-no-never-nah-naw-gif-1191255073758669162

[hardy maple]

see the things im listing are things id say count as skill or progression, things you have to play and experience the game to acquire

[brittle sierra]

Ainz doing 5 demonhost havoc 40 runs to feel anything:

[broken moss]

ultra armored mobs getting healed to full and shit. im good

[hardy maple]

no life

is that the answer

[brittle sierra]

No

[low harbor]

the fundamentals don't change, just this mutator rotation less aids than the last

[near mauve]

i like losing

[broken moss]

enough so id be willing to try it at least lol

[near mauve]

if there's a high chance to lose it means u gotta lock tf in

so its more fun

[tropic crag]

i earnestly think we're talking about the same thing tbh, i was using pressure to mean like "resistance that the game puts against the player as they work towards their goal" which does always turn into bullshit when dialed too far

[broken moss]

but theres still the issue of logistics. which is why i likely never will

[hardy maple]

Im honestly about to give up, Im just not on the same wavelength you are at all, and honestly im starting to think you're yanking my pizzle

[broken moss]

it presents itself as this thing that you really need a static 4 man on comms to complete.

[tropic crag]

bro you got a pickle and you're not sharing it with the class?

[near mauve]

anyway back to the og point
how does desprado scum preform in these 1000000 armor spam havocs

i doubt u can just mow down 100000000 crushers the same way u shoot the fleshies

[broken moss]

prob not well

[tropic crag]

honestly not the point, the point was that its ruining peoples fun on the normal board which is why it should be tuned down lol

[broken moss]

its the only weak point

[tropic crag]

people in havok aren't having the same kind of fun lol

[near mauve]

its basically why i was saying that anything can shut the game off untill u hit cancer diff

[somber frigate]

Whatcha guys think would be a good ranged focused build set of Vraks Blessings?

[hardy maple]

friends? Good teamates?

mods

[broken moss]

but really i dont think too many gun builds on anyone are going to perform well into pure armor modes

but imagine if they had access to spearhead ☠️

[brittle sierra]

You are overthinking it

Ask yourself what REALLY is important in the match

[hardy maple]

i mean to me, thats making it to the end alive with my team

[tropic crag]

but its how they do it, the rest of the things you mentioned have alot more limited reach (outside of the glugger which i think also needs tuned down even more), so a gunscum (or glugger) that wants to can take out things faster than other classes can make their way to them

[near mauve]

is gunlugger even that bad outside rumbler spam

on other guns u just run out of ammo fast unless u vaccum it

[brittle sierra]

If you want I can just tell you

[snow plover]

Would using kalma stim and chemical dependency help keep rampage up almost permanently? With the only drawback being the exhaustion period?

[hardy maple]

please cause at this point i just think im on the wrong wavelength and my brain is very stubborn when i get like this

[tropic crag]

it can be yeah, not as bad as before the last round of nerfs but you can be really goofy with like a 3rd of the oggy gun lineup

[somber frigate]

you could do 2 points into kalma and you only lose a few seconds of cd on your stim

[brittle sierra]

Kill Specialists

[hardy maple]

im gonna be likE AAAAGH how did i not think of it

[tropic crag]

gunscum is def worse than glugger atm

[somber frigate]

like this (use rending or w/e you want)

[tropic crag]

i mean worse as in "worse for fun"

[broken moss]

by worse i assume you mean, more oppressive

[hardy maple]

thats covered under THIS at least its what i had in mind when i tyuped it

[tropic crag]

yes lol not worse as in a worse setup for putting up big number

[brittle sierra]

Too abstract like I said

[icy scaffold]

If you take shivs, you can throw 2 knives and then heavy the head to kill a crusher, which then gives you your 2 knives back for the next one.

[tropic crag]

i think the most important skill is the ablity to dance to the music with you character in game without making mistakes in your gameplay

[brittle sierra]

Also I don't give af about what is happening around me if there are no specialists tbh

Wtf are they going to do to me? Hit me?

[tropic crag]

yeah standard horde is just the water you're walking through, even armor and stuff... those are just rocks you're making sure not to smack into

[compact maple]

Chem damage passive with chainaxe . Very good

[hardy maple]

the paying attention to whats around me is for my teamates more than myself

unless im sure they can handle themselves

[brittle sierra]

You can't control your teammates

[hardy maple]

no but i can help them

if they dont do something COMPLETELY STUPID

[astral canyon]

Winning

[brittle sierra]

Stop having that mentality

Just focus on yourself

[tropic crag]

yeah this is actually a really good thing to keep in mind... like turning to look at people and see if they seem like they are chillin or if you need to wade over to them or send a blitz their way

[hardy maple]

now dont get me wrong im gonna secure myself and make sure i can safely revive someone and if i cant then i will survive rather than die trying to save them

[tropic crag]

naw vibe checks on team is good man

[hardy maple]

im not pointlessly selfless

[brittle sierra]

Did you kill the specialists?

[exotic temple]

Can I interest you in Le needle pistol? I think it’s mark II that does the spread on kill. I just empty a clip on alt mode into a horde and first hit basically sets off a cascade effect and no more horde.

[tropic crag]

i go by airplane rules, i make sure my mask is on and secure and the air is flowing before helping those around me

[hardy maple]

if I can yes, ive seen so many people try to revive with a bomber/trapper/dog/sniper still alive and it leads to a team wipe

[hardy maple]

finally we've come to the consensus that we are on the same page

[tropic crag]

even if you never use the alt fire the needle gun is crazy strong just as a "i don't want this thing here anymore" tool

[hardy maple]

and i need to go to bed

[brittle sierra]

Idk about that

But I'm trying to drill I to everyone's head that FUCKING KILL THE SPECIALISTS YOU FUCKING MONKIES

[tropic crag]

the slayer in me will sometimes dodge them for a while till i can smack'em , i'm sorry for this but also... i'm not sorry

its hard to remember that you have a gun, slayer/oggy problems

[brittle sierra]

Me with the rock:

[shadow shale]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-1050270031768215821

[brittle sierra]

What's wrong?

Ok good talk

[mint fable]

Do hivescum benefit from a bigger coherency radius?

As in Loose Formation talent

[compact valley]

why is this entire channel full of adhd

[brittle sierra]

Uh you know what server this is?

[compact valley]

Of course, why do you think church of ass has a sniffer of ass as the preacher

[compact valley]

wanna join?

[brittle sierra]

No

[exotic temple]

Check pin for the ranged build, the left side of the tree is kinda busted.

[spark bough]

why...

[shadow shale]

https://tenor.com/view/adepta-sororitas-sister-of-battle-mad-cup-gif-7124970825008737609

[compact valley]

fr what weapon is best for a rampage adrenaline setup

[abstract lichen]

Crowbar/saw

[compact valley]

fr? im running tac axe rn

[abstract lichen]

That's great too

[compact valley]

havoc 40 context btw

what blessings on the saw? havent even tried that yet

[dim moth]

shock&awe+decimator/shred

[broken moss]

shivs man

shivs

[limber cradle]

I should actually try the saw on a rampage build

[exotic temple]

Yeah It’s kind of the Swiss Army knife of our ranged guns at the moment. Might not always be the best option but it usually works

[limber cradle]

Im ngl

I think one of my favorite parts of needler is it saves me a talent point

Its the largest selling point of Vraks to me too

Don't feel the need to run sticky hands with it

[bronze glade]

the swiss army knife of HIV is the shiv

great melee weapon

and great ranged weapon

good for all situations

and it's literally a knife

🙂‍↕️

[exotic temple]

Yeah when people bring up axes and stuff I’m like but you got shivs.

You have a point but in my defense I did specify guns

[dim moth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1446167960522592409/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2025.12.04_-_09.15.53.1414.DVR_online-video-cutter.com.mp4?ex=6942299e&is=6940d81e&hm=8f63304784b48741c07dc7e6b721d28196f80e04ca785672ed06a2ce89a8579e&

[lapis raft]

pretty funny that even without needler as no ammo drops coated weaponry is still 43% of my damage :d

[dim moth]

what mod is this I want to gaslight myself with funny numbers too

[split halo]

is this ok ?

[dim moth]

toughness regeneration speed is bad

[split halo]

[lapis raft]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/661

[mint fable]

I'm really enjoying dual autopistols the most

Now that I tried almost every stubber

[low harbor]

rashad mk3 combat axe

[bronze glade]

fair enough lol

[limber cradle]

Shivs are so goddamn fun

I love my free throwing knife

[main wagon]

I whiff them half the time on smaller targets but I love them for whittling down cara

[limber cradle]

I love throwing them at snipers, flamers, trappers, and dogs tbh

[candid flare]

Throwing knife skillshot comp when

[bronze glade]

yeah it's peak

best HIV exclusive weapon

and it's not even close

not that there's much competition let's be real

[flat mist]

Implying the existence of a melee gun

[limber cradle]

It defo hits the ideal combo of fun and usefulness

[limber cradle]

Ogryn would like a word

Actually

[bronze glade]

yeah good shit

[limber cradle]

Imagine Mac 10s gun bash only lol

[broken moss]

i think the bone saw is pretty good honestly. it just serves a niche and needs built for it. less universal

[bronze glade]

all fun and games until you run into a mixed horde

[broken moss]

frankly thats where i think it shines

[dim moth]

I like crowbar :)

[broken moss]

u just need the cleave

[bronze glade]

which it sucks at

[limber cradle]

I wanted so badly to like the crowbar

[dim moth]

tho i am using shivs because well...100% crit chance build

[broken moss]

not with the right blessings

[bronze glade]

even with shock and awe

[broken moss]

run double cleave plus tree perks. shit slays

[bronze glade]

this is even more self-gaslighting than shovel

[dim moth]

if bonesaws sound design wasn't so sad I'd probably use it more unironically xd

that sound it makes when it hits something with a light attack is so pathetic

[limber cradle]

There's a noise Shiv makes when you're either on rampage or stimms or both that sounds like when you get ultra strong in vampire survivors and nuke things

I wish I could describe it better

Good dopamine tho

[bronze glade]

shivs just feel good generally

bonesaw is glacial and has shit cleave

crowbar does a lot of stagger but very little actual damage outside of hooking carapace

also swapping modes on cbar takes too long

[dim moth]

bonesaw cleave so good it's recommended to run 2 cleave blessings

[dim moth]

I think it'd be neat if swapping modes on crowbar was an attack that swapped modes y'know?

[bronze glade]

does it get wrath too?

idr

[bronze glade]

that'd def help

but i'd like to see the base damage buffed

make it at least shovel level against hordes ffs

[dim moth]

yes

[bronze glade]

i def feel like saw needs shred or deci tho

ig deci doubles as a cleave blessing

but with how slow saw is, takes forever to stack

[exotic temple]

I’ve guess you never played with a bang stick?

[turbid plover]

Gentlemen and ladies - what blessings work on the needle pistol? Not sure what to even bother with given the dots.

[turbid plover]

Old ogryn can opener would like a word.

[exotic temple]

lol I just take run and gun and stripped down

[mighty belfry]

this honestly does have value on chem builds imho

crowbar complements needle pistol quite nicely

[exotic temple]

Stripped down is nice because it’s easy to maintain 50% stamina so you can avoid all ranged damage.

[bronze glade]

how so? feels like needle is already killing crushers

[mighty belfry]

It lets you kill them faster. Sometimes you don't want to wait for the DoT to do its thing. And having a melee weapon with good stagger complements needle pistol which has absolutely none of pretty well.

[manic wolf]

Problem with killing Crushers with it tho is that it'll grab everything around the damn thing before finally hitting it

[exotic temple]

Run and gun is a meme pick by I like it. Hot shot is probably a better choice

[hasty agate]

What’s the base crit on the crowbar?

[bronze glade]

too bad you have to give up your horde safety / damage to hook the crusher...

[sullen ridge]

balanced class

50% crits whole mission and vultures dodge uptime for 55%

[mighty belfry]

#nothavocviable

[sullen ridge]

oh god is that a commonly held opinion

[manic wolf]

Stripped Down/Hotshot. The latter might seem weird but it lets you poke shots through multiple trash enemies with blue mode, so more of them spread toxin when they die. It minorly improves clear potential, which isnt massive, but its more of a functional damage increase than you can get with anything else

[mighty belfry]

people think hive scum can't kill crushers

[sullen ridge]

the rending stim in question

[winter tusk]

who thinks that

[dim moth]

did power DI update?

or are you not using any scum exclusive weapons

[sullen ridge]

yea but its still laggy asf

[dim moth]

because if you are chances are it's higher than 50%

[sullen ridge]

and doesnt work for specified scum

oh damn

im using dual stubs exclusively

i never whip out the crowbar unless i dodge into a horde

[dim moth]

yeah click on crit chance

[sullen ridge]

one momento reloading

[hasty agate]

Where can I find a resource of the base crit chance values for hive scum weapons?

[dim moth]

shivs have +12.5%, Dual Stub Pistols have +5%

the others do not have increased base crit

[sullen ridge]

dual shredders dont have bonus crit?

[hasty agate]

What about the crowbar?

Oh nvm

[dim moth]

nothin'

scum's base crit chance is 10% btw

[sullen ridge]

is regular crit chance 0%

[dim moth]

no

5% for Zealot, 10% for veteran, and scum, 7.5% for psyker, and arbites

and a whopping 2.5% for ogryn

[sullen ridge]

a crispy 1.4% higher

[dim moth]

fuckin' bitch ass mod doesn't summarize my crit chance correctly

can't believe this

[hasty agate]

Would crowbar just be outright dogshit on a crit tox build?

[dim moth]

Probably? It depends on having melee damage amps to get quick kills

[bronze glade]

cbar also doesn't have great finesse

it mainly wants damage

lots and lots of damage

[dim moth]

should give crowbars crow mode like 90 billion finesse

[winter tusk]

who got that good good rampage crowbar build

[hasty agate]

What about the crowbars interaction with quick and deadly+damage to staggered talent. And wouldn’t it keep toxic mania at Max value also?

[dim moth]

it interacts with quick and deadly like any other weapon does

and damage to staggered requires them to be fully staggered

which the crowbar doesn't do

and I have no idea what you mean about the toxin mania thing

[hasty agate]

But blackout tends to fully stagger them…

[dim moth]

yeah and crowbars crow mode is a stagger override so you hit them once and then they're not

[smoky mica]

https://tenor.com/view/piss-nuke-piss-nuke-tutorial-truth-nuke-true-true-morgan-freeman-gif-1990497734463688507

[sullen ridge]

s-sorry sir it wasnt personal

[smoky mica]

boombringer and pocket toxin build

[lethal aspen]

whats the current metta for the needle pistol?

[tropic crag]

i tank stopping power myself since it changes basically nothing

i think your blessings are probably fine... i use ghost on my over something like glory hunter since i aim for heads by default

i assume glory hunter works with the tox damage while its out? i never actually tested

but really the needle gun is just... good out of the box because most things wont' affect its tox damage... if you want to maximize the tox stacks then you probably want to get crits on it

but i don't know how viable it is and its not really needed

[bronze glade]

it doesn't

which is unfortunate

[tropic crag]

oh, then yeah take glory hunter off

i use ghost and run and gun on mine because like... idk the gun is just good, i'm not sold on run and gun atm because i ads alot without thinking

[bronze glade]

i hipfire a lot so i run runn gun

and stripped down

[tropic crag]

but also i've not changed it because it feels like the pistol will be good no matter what

oh stripped down is a valid choice tbh

speedload is probably also good

since its just close kill that triggers it

[frigid sluice]

Just got told it doesn't

gg

[tropic crag]

desperado probably also ok for the bonus crit to stack more poison

[tropic crag]

speedload should work still because close kills are any damage just has to be within 12.5 meters or whatever

[frigid sluice]

haven't checked or asked for that

[tropic crag]

but yeah really, what makes the needle gun so good isn't really changed that much by any of the setups so you have choices

[compact maple]

Dual stub needs a mk that reloads while sprint

[low harbor]

this is not accurate to crit chance

this is crit rate

it checks num of crit hits vs total hits

which means if u swing twice
first atk being crit, hits 7 dudes
2nd atk being not crit, hits 1 dude
u will get 7 crit hits out of 8 total hits

and, vice versa
if u swing twice, first atk being crit hitting 1 guy, 2nd atk being not crit hitting 7 guys, u will end up with crit rate of 1/8 (12.5%) even tho 50% of ur atks were crit

[tropic crag]

math is a tricky bastard sometimes tbh

[sullen ridge]

😵‍💫

so my actual crit chance was higher than 50%?

[low harbor]

could be higher or lower

it's not an accurate metric

[lost bear]

shivs have a nerfed precog relative to knives, but I wonder what it actually translates to in raw numbers

[glad latch]

Redditors: "ThE hIvE sCuM dOeS nO dAmAgE"
Me: Ok.

[lost bear]

IIRC the nerfed uncanny didn't matter as much because it had a higher Cara ADM to begin with

[lost bear]

the real damage is in coming up with a psychic flashbang of a name

never knew meth could be worked into so many places

[dim moth]

smith & methson

[lost bear]

FullAutomethic

still cack myself whenever I see a Saint Methelina

[near vapor]

Obi Wan Xanax

[clever wren]

Arbites led the way

[drifting heron]

I am the Estrofiend

[clever wren]

Some Arbites names have me going "why can't you name yourself after real-world police brutality, like a normal person"

[near vapor]

counting or not counting hive scum violence?

[lost bear]

saw a screencap of a "forcefemme fatale" the other day

gumshoe novels been real different since they made it onto AO3

[drifting heron]

Peak

[drifting heron]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTrCJNf77/

[lost bear]

you say this but it's mostly young dudes who don't read

what this means is that Black Library has to publish more

[median bridge]

Stand back everyone

[drifting heron]

Mike Brooks can do both

[median bridge]

(Because most of the fanfics i actually liked reading are no longer being updated

Which SUCKS)

[lost bear]

I do wonder how much stuff like manhwa/manhua/manga is underrecognised in reading surveys

they're not longform reading but at this point, I'll take what we can get

[lost bear]

the curse of finding a banger of a fanfic with 17 chapters and author's last login in 2015

[drifting heron]

I have a functionally infinite repository of stuff to read (messaging my dad for suggestions and then seeing if my library has it)

[median bridge]

CATACHAN🗣️🗣️🗣️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️

Do you read fanfiction?

[drifting heron]

No

[oblique basin]

Hi, is there an arbites channel?

I do not see it

[drifting heron]

Have you tried looking

[lost bear]

fanfiction has genuine craft but is also full of absolute fucking dross

[median bridge]

I have but I keep coming across trash

[drifting heron]

Not you

[median bridge]

Watt pad be like:

[drifting heron]

The person who somehow lost the channel directly above this one

[median bridge]

Awwww…..

[oblique basin]

Could someone link the arbites channel? Is not on my tab, I would like to have it

[flat mist]

So like all categories of art?

[lost bear]

I try to avoid gooner works, both shounen and cliterature

[drifting heron]

Go to the channels and roles bar and add it

[lost bear]

markedly worse, because some gatekeeping is good actually

[median bridge]

Mission: impossible

Chance of failure: 200%

[oblique basin]

Where is that?

[drifting heron]

Idk

I'm on mobile and can't check the desktop ui rn

[grand jewel]

Channels and roles up the very top

[flat mist]

The spoken word open mic night at my mates bar has entered the chat

[candid flare]

What is stimms base cooldown time? I can't seem to find it anywhere in game

[oblique basin]

Hmm is not there on onboarding

[lost bear]

reading this combination of words gave me second hand spiritual exhaustion

post-rampage clarity, full kenjataimu

[grand jewel]

15 seconds with no node and with one node

No node doesn't matter but it's does say a cool down in game for no node anyway

[lost bear]

check the browse channels tab at the top

[flat mist]

I actually like spoken word but this was a very tough gig.

Does make you appreciate what having to upload to YouTube and fight the algorithm filters out

[lost bear]

there's a lot of things I like while also avoiding the median practitioner like the plague

yeah it's all playing the odds on signal and noise unfortunately

youtube's algo does do some magic work every now and then

[dim moth]

yeah we hidin'

[lost bear]

"to apply to serve the lex you must solve this puzzle about the location of the recruiting office"

[grand jewel]

like I said

channels and roles at the top

[lost bear]

I went into arbites channel and pinged him lol

[grand jewel]

incratible

https://tenor.com/view/rat-attack-rat-attack-have-at-thee-gif-11648161592664583090

[final temple]

shivs still outperform knive.

[grave venture]

Yall ever just

[manic wolf]

This. This was a fuckin task.

[grave venture]

Get burnt out as soon as you have time to do stuff

[manic wolf]

Cycling through players like a slot machine

[grave venture]

Like I genuinely could not wait to make the most of the winter break and now that I have it I genuinely do not want to do anything

[manic wolf]

Delayed burnout is what that is

[grave venture]

Brings me to another issue

[cobalt goblet]

h33 game, stimm supply and AoE bolt pistol w/ pickpocket has been very strong

regularly hitting 1m+ on wins

and thats without mentioning all the damage buffs you give the whole team

[manic wolf]

Based AoE Boltpistol enjoyer 🙏

Blinder grenade with 80 charges 😄

[cobalt goblet]

yeah its insane lol

pickpocket and the stuff you can throw into your stimm patch every weakness the weapon has

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I mean the breakpoints are dogwater, but it's super good at buying you the space to push

[cobalt goblet]

yeah buying space and pickpocket turning it into a main weapon since if you mag dump a horde odds are at 1 least special was caught in that so you can just do it all over again

one of the instances of a build getting stronger the higher the difficulty is

[manic wolf]

Lot of things scale with density, flamer, purgatus and AoE are generally amongst the stronger things

[lost bear]

grid square deletion scales with density

[cobalt goblet]

yeah exactly

[smoky mica]

look at my cool guns

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lIvp2U7AXL0kuPmfh?invite=cr-MSxqcjEsMjcyMzU5MjU1&v=30

don't mind the chud dying immediately

[manic wolf]

Ngl.. Im of the opinion that TacAxe is Scummer's best melee weapon at this point

[drifting heron]

Good

You are beginning to see

[manic wolf]

Beginning to see what? 😄

[cobalt goblet]

for rampage id prolly run taxe

its always been pretty good

[tropic crag]

ok... i finally like chainsword... only scum at least lol

[manic wolf]

Yeah have been running it on Rampage, it makes crazy good use of Hyperviolence too

An yeah its always been pretty decent, but Scum really pushes it beyond previous character limits

[drifting heron]

That tac axe is just the best melee

[manic wolf]

Someone get this man a based

[drifting heron]

It all comes back to tac axe

[manic wolf]

Its between the OG Vet Shovel and TacAxe for me ngl

They're the only two weapons in the game where every part of their movesets are innately useful

[tropic crag]

the arby shock maul is really solid... same with the crusher tbh

[final temple]

I’d say the arbi shield n maul is also up there

[manic wolf]

Both the shield + maul and shock maul are pretty good to be fair, an yeah I do love the Crusher, but its not fluid to play like the TacAxe or Shovel, its a bit one dimensional

[winter tusk]

She stim on my hive until I scum

[vast yoke]

the blue tax is so fun on scum, never found a use for it until now, I think mk4?

[manic wolf]

Ye

[vast yoke]

the shieldmaul with the uppercut push attack is one of my fav movesets in the game

[manic wolf]

Yer, its pretty good, the special attack can be clutch at points too

[vast yoke]

mostly because i love block cancelling XD

push light light block light light block light light push

i miss you halberd vt2

[vast yoke]

mk6 cknife is like that for me too tbh

although the mk1 shovel is pretty much perfect, no redundancies every attack is useful

there's just nothing as satisfying as the mk6 push attack into h2 when a rager morphs out of a poxwalkers ass in front of you

[manic wolf]

I can't even remember the MK6 knife moveset at this point Is that the slashy one?

[vast yoke]

the only bad thing about the arby smaul is that it's too good. literally makes 3/4 of their shared weapon pool useless when it has absurdly good horde-clear, single target with DOT and CC thrown in XD

[broken moss]

they wanted people to have the real arbites experience

[manic wolf]

Something something police brutality

[vast yoke]

yeah it's a bit overtuned tbh, mk3 only has better speed tech and better H1 for zealot backstabs tbh

but the move tech keeps it relevant for psyker mains still

you usually kill elites with mk6 faster with PA-H2 or good old PA-Sp-L

which is a bit sad

[manic wolf]

I only use the MKIII tbh as thats the older one an im somewhat familiar with it, though I've never played it all that much

[vast yoke]

they didn't like the word i used even though it's literally just my neurodivergence

oh god censoring it makes it so much worse

[fast gust]

Yep

[vast yoke]

it begins with a and ends with tism and i had it for a few decades now

[glad latch]

Random Steam Review I Saw: "Hive Scum does less damage than the other classes and has to work way harder to achieve this unfortunately mediocre damage output. This class is entirely reliant on long cooldown gated abilities just to do the damage the other classes do baseline with their builds. It just feels weak! When everything is on cooldown - the experience feels significantly worse."

Me:

[manic wolf]

Relatable

[charred bronze]

what are people running for perks/blessings on chaxe for scum?

[manic wolf]

Probably Slaughterer/Headtaker

[charred bronze]

unyielding and carapace?

[manic wolf]

Honestly I have no idea, I just know it gets really good blessings. I've hardly ever played it so don't know its damage profiles

[vast yoke]

slaughterer + headtaker, chaxe of choice some ppl run 4 some 12. 2 stamina (it's 4% attack speed) plus perk of choice, i found cara% and elite% honestly a bit more useful than unyielding because on rampage it shreds anyway

defense dump

[manic wolf]

Speaking of Chainaxe..

Thanks I guess, Brunt?

[vast yoke]

also good to know is that Slaughterer is global power so it can increase the power of your DOT by 40% at max stacks

so it feels good to run on a Dependency Rampage build imo

[novel oracle]

i bet you have the dockets to get a full def dump tho

[vast yoke]

but you can use use it to buff syringe pistol

[charred bronze]

mostly light spam?

[vast yoke]

for mk12, for mk4 is heavy hordes, lights singles

okay poop break over

[manic wolf]

I do indeed But convenience is convenient. I'm just gonna mess with it an see if its something I can enjoy first tho

[novel oracle]

i mean i assume mk4 is light spam for single target on scum with all that attack speed

rev not required

[vast yoke]

yeah you don't rlly bother

i only rev on 12 vs crushers and only light revs

sometimes worth it over heavy/PAs

with rampage up and high stamina the light revs are insanely fast

[manic wolf]

Its been several years since I've used it aaaaaand...

...I still dont like it

Feels like you're clubbing enemies with it as opposed to the rather visceral feedback of Chainsword or Evisc'

[novel oracle]

my issue was that i HATE rev attacks

[limber cradle]

I love getting gripped onto one enemy, its so fun

Surely being locked in this animation will not cause my downfall

[manic wolf]

They don't feel great across the board really, its true

I'm gonna really struggle to use anything but TacAxe or Heavy Sword on Rampage setups tbh

Chainsword for critstack with Rampage, but thats more a niche thing

[charred bronze]

OH question: taxe push attack is to stagger enemies like ragers, yeah?

er not push attack

special

[manic wolf]

Yer

On demand stagger vs all targets

You can even stop a mutie charge with it

[charred bronze]

works on crushers???

[manic wolf]

It does

[charred bronze]

holy shit

[manic wolf]

But they have an ICD so you cant stagger loop them

[charred bronze]

why am I screwing around with the chaxe

[manic wolf]

But you can stagger them out of overheads

[charred bronze]

truly I am a fool

[manic wolf]

TacAxe really do be feeling like Scum's best melee weapon imo

[charred bronze]

it's really, really, really good

[lost bear]

Tac axe over combat axe?

[charred bronze]

after your buffs get rolling it hits like a caxe anyway

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its absurd in fact. Did what amounted to a true duo with a level 28 Zealot earlier

[charred bronze]

and it's way faster

[limber cradle]

I prefer tac to combat but combat axe simply bores me to tears

[lost bear]

yeah though caxe hits like, idk, a powerfist post buffs

[manic wolf]

I think TacAxe is actually better than Caxe for one reason; Hyperviolence

[limber cradle]

Caxe is maybe one step above using a DS

[lost bear]

fair with combat axe the moveset is not the thrill, the stupid situations I get into are the thrill

[charred bronze]

maybe I should give caxe another chance, but when I ran it, it felt very much like the taxe, but much slower. I wasn't getting enormous hits

at least not larger than taxe crits normally

[manic wolf]

TacAxe just makes more use out of Hyperviolence than Caxe can becuse its so much faster

[lost bear]

and there's shit you can squeeze out with caxe, but I never really got the rhythm of sprint cancels on a clicky keyboard

[charred bronze]

maybe I had it set up wrong? I dunno

[lost bear]

assuming everyone is using the Mk 7 with the H-L combo, or PA-H

[manic wolf]

MK4 imo

[charred bronze]

honestly, I'm just spamming light on the mk 7 with occasional specials and mixing in heavies

[lost bear]

I like taking Unarmoured for easier Scab Bruiser workouts

[past blade]

idk what melee to use, im using crowbar but it feels underwhelming

[manic wolf]

MKIV has a 3 chain special loop, which is the only reason I can put it at the top, it stacks a dropped blessing stupidly fast

[charred bronze]

haha well, we were just talking about how awesome the tactical axe is

[lost bear]

unarmoured + cara is what I run elsewhere too, Rashad does good enough Unyielding at baseline I don't think it needs the help

[manic wolf]

Yeah, use TacAxe

[charred bronze]

have mine set up like this and it copulates grandly

[lost bear]

if the primary go is light spam and the occasional heavy, Brumentum is kind of wasted, no? also is ass on the Mk 4 because of its angles

[past blade]

would 70/70 on mobility and penetration be good or should i look for that 60 mobility

[lost bear]

usually default to Headtaker + Shred on my Mk 4 taxes

[charred bronze]

you want penetration, so find one with 60 mob

[past blade]

3rd axe had it lets go

[lost bear]

even at 60 mob taxe is one of the more mobile weapons around

[charred bronze]

yeah, very similar feeling to shivs

[manic wolf]

I dont find so personally, killing more things per swing = bigger Hyperviolence procs

[lost bear]

current personal rating is caxes top, shivs second, taxes third

[manic wolf]

Just because of all the trash scattered about in that last mission I solo'd two Chaos spawns with absolute ease

[charred bronze]

on the mk 7 doesn't feel like it. Helps a lot with armored ragers it seems.

[past blade]

never liked combat axes much

[charred bronze]

assume you run the caxe rashad. What are your rotations?

[lost bear]

yeah on the 4 you get this uppercut and a vertical swing

[lost bear]

rotations?

[charred bronze]

swing patterns for horde vs single target

[lost bear]

I try to sprint cancel the gap after L3, sometimes sprint cancel L3 outright to cycle L1 and L2

buuuut I'm not consistent with it

[lilac ermine]

Gun only build is so fun and gud

If they nerf ill explode

[lost bear]

and single target is usually heavy spam, or if it's a rager, one heavy and one light usually claps them if the heavy alone doesn't do it

[charred bronze]

they are gonna nerf it, so prepare for detonation

[lilac ermine]

No

[lost bear]

push attacks are necessary on occasion, the special on the rashad is hella mid compared to the antax

[charred bronze]

and you run unarmored on it instead of 10% elites or whatever, along with cara?

[lost bear]

unarmoured + cara for perks yea

[lilac ermine]

Its balanced rn bc all classes can dodge gunners now

[lost bear]

scab bruisers are a pain to ramp up on otherwise

[lilac ermine]

Except ogryn lol

[lost bear]

like you want to just drop them, not have to do a little jog on the spot to warm up before throwing hands

[manic wolf]

Everyone could dodge gunners anyway, because the dodge button exists

[lilac ermine]

I think before if dodges run out they can hit you

But rn if dodges is out they cant hit you

[manic wolf]

No, your dodges still worked, they were just less effective lol

[lilac ermine]

I remember it just stops working after like -5 dodge

[final temple]

you could also just use a needle gun with stripped down to ignore ranged while sprinting lol

[lilac ermine]

I have in my build but forget to use

Mostly I have my knifes out

[manic wolf]

Yeup, it scaled down in effectivness the more you spammed it till your dodge count refreshed

[final temple]

stripped down, maybe ghost, sprint efficiency and stam bonus and you literally become ranged hunter already. so it’s not like the current state of dodge trivializes the game more than you could before. it just took an investment.

[lost bear]

hotshot isn't bad on the needle gun either

[manic wolf]

(Its probably guna get fixed)

[final temple]

it absolutely will get fixed

[lilac ermine]

Its not rlly that big issue

[lost bear]

a couple shots in blue mode on the mk II (the one that spreads chem stacks on target death) and you have Temu chem grenades

[lilac ermine]

I think havoc has so many enemies that you cant run everywhere

[final temple]

heck, run supply with booby trap and you have better chem nade that regens

[lost bear]

havoc is dynasty warriors in darktide

[novel oracle]

the current state of dodges trivializes it for all of the fun classes with any weapon

[lilac ermine]

Whats dynasty warrior

[manic wolf]

Jup, Hotshot is the only blessing that meaninfully gives the Needlegun a damage increase, its not really a direct increase ofc, but in essence thats what it do

[novel oracle]

hotshot only lets it go through 1 poxwalker or groaner

it doesnt have enough cleave to go through anything else

[manic wolf]

Goes through dreg bruiser too, but yes, its not a very big increase, but its the only damage increase blessing you can get for all intents and purposes

[novel oracle]

run n gun

[lost bear]

the utility of the second blessing slot is pretty marginal after Stripped Down though

[manic wolf]

Huh?

[calm aurora]

A Chinese inspired game Darcy

[manic wolf]

Isnt that just gonna change impact damage?

[final temple]

run n gun is pretty good on needler cause of sprint shooting. you can shoot them. they can’t shoot you.

[manic wolf]

Seems kinda pointless when you can increase the amount of toxin spread

[novel oracle]

nope, it changes dot damage while youre sprinting with the gun in hand

[lilac ermine]

Im not darcy

[charred bronze]

and spam heavy on maulers/crushers?

[lost bear]

Yeah, the moveset is very simple at baseline, the light attack cancels are nerd shit

[calm aurora]

Catussy

[manic wolf]

Interesting, still not gonna take it over Hotshot tho as running round in circles just to juice a bit more damage out the DoT when you could be killing other things seems a bit... silly

[charred bronze]

okay cool, why do you like it over the taxe? I'm gonna try it anyway, just for comparison's sake, just curious

[lost bear]

imagine some legendary hero type solo'ing most of an army with sweeping area attacks

[final temple]

it’s more for running at or after ranged threats like gunner clumps or the occasional bomber/trapper/sniper

[lost bear]

hits like a fucking truck, mostly

[lilac ermine]

Why is ppl always harass me

[novel oracle]

with run n gun you do get a decent drop in spread as you run though which can be quite useful if you cant stand still, especially when avoiding fire with stripped down

[lost bear]

might give that a go

[manic wolf]

They'll die to minor amounts of tox DoTs anyway tho

[final temple]

and you dispersed that safely.

[manic wolf]

The spread change is nice yeah, an the Needler does have a good amount of it, but still

[lilac ermine]

With stim pistol special do you shoot enemy gunner one time or alot

[cunning silo]

its your fault

[lost bear]

the blue mode drops less stacks than the yellow mode in exchange for the on-death effect

[manic wolf]

Kinda is when you say stuff like this #hivescum-class message

[lilac ermine]

Is 1 stack toxin kill gunners

[calm aurora]

Because you really really make us think you're Darcy

[lost bear]

the explosion on death is a fucking meme though, absolutely pointless

[manic wolf]

The other mark spreads toxin on kill

[lost bear]

yep that's the good one

[final temple]

twice. ogryns thrice.

[lilac ermine]

Ok ty

I think im using wrong mark rn

[manic wolf]

Whelp. Guess im just playing Zealot, but Hive City flavoured

[final temple]

technically Mk6 applies more stacks on weakspot hits

[lost bear]

the upside about the spread on death is also that you can really mess up an entire gunline

[final temple]

but most people prefer mk2 exactly for what interrobang said

[lost bear]

Hive city gumshoe vibes

[flat mist]

Why

[lost bear]

it's also gilding shit unnecessarily afaik, don't think this gets any real breakpoints

but I am not an authority on that mark, having swapped away from it as soon as I could

[lost bear]

have you got much use out of it?

[livid raven]

Tiny aoe that deals 10 damage

[manic wolf]

Yea no he's right, AoE bad

[lost bear]

if it knocked them over it'd at least be funny

[manic wolf]

If it wants to be relevant it needs to do 50% worth of the enemy HP that died to the needle as AoE damage

Ofc it would need a cap of some sort so you couldnt use a Crusher to nuke an entire mob, but yeah

[livid raven]

It needs a lot to be relevant

[manic wolf]

Yeup

Even Showstopper isnt as bad as Needle AoE at the moment, an thats a dog blessing to begin with

[livid raven]

It was probably thrown together in 10 minutes without thinking too much tho

[limber cradle]

Idk what youd have to do to VI to make me use it over II

[flat mist]

Wait are we talking about the dot

[limber cradle]

Idk why the thing even have two marks

[lost bear]

maybe make the secondary on the Mk 6 an execute

[flat mist]

The one that kills horde with two stacks?

[livid raven]

The special mode of the mk6

[lost bear]

does damage based on the number of current stacks

would make it better against bosses at least

[livid raven]

The one that does an explosion on death

[manic wolf]

It would help it

Its just so utterly without use at the moment

[lost bear]

would make it better for bossing at least

[manic wolf]

I would actually be happy if it did enough damage to punch holes in a mixed horde on Special and Elite kills so it gave the player some incentive to pick their targets instead of just using spread needle to dump into horde

[lost bear]

I played another class for the first time in a while and I forgot how comfy not having to block while sliding really is

[winter tusk]

Who has a good crowbar rampage build i can steal

[livid raven]

Did you know that the explosion damage scales with the amount of toxin stacks?

[fast gust]

Mr E had one

[manic wolf]

Not I, crowbar sucks

[livid raven]

It can reach a whole 50 damage

[manic wolf]

Jesus

[lost bear]

psyker shout all over again

[unique dagger]

If we are talking about mk2 the special attack has a place for horde clear when you have infinite ammo

[lost bear]

we're shitting on the Mk 6 rn

[winter tusk]

Only problem with crowbar i can see is the lock animation, but honestly I dont have much issue with those usually

[unique dagger]

If mk6 you can probably breathe on the enemy and do more damage

[lost bear]

the one that makes poxers go "pfft" like when you open a can and you hear "nice hiss"

[unique dagger]

Steve1989mreinfo flashbacks

Been a while since I watched that dude

[livid raven]

Mk6 so bad the poxwalkers feel pity for you and pretend to be staggered when you use it

[charred bronze]

@lost bear oh man, the loss of mobility is brutal

[limber cradle]

Gotta check up every now and again, make sure the 100 year old rations dont kill him

[charred bronze]

I don't think I get enough from the caxe to give up the speed of the taxe. Actually staggering stuff was cool though

[manic wolf]

I swear that dude is like late night youtube rabbithole material.. Like yes youtube, I would like to watch a dude eat a one hundred year old MRE

[unique dagger]

Pretty sure he got sick three times already

[manic wolf]

Only three times? He's doing well

[lost bear]

fair, it's funny that it's one of the least stagger heavy options on the Arbites and on the Scum it's one of the heavier options in that regard

[charred bronze]

yeah, it's dramatic honestly

I can't stagger a fucking thing without the special on the taxe

[lost bear]

I didn't mind the mobility as much, I just play differently

[charred bronze]

it just felt soooo sloooow

[lost bear]

in one I'm taz, in other I'm Vader farming aura in Rogue One

[charred bronze]

but yeah, demands a less frenetic play style

[manic wolf]

There is also TacAxe scaling Hyperviolence to insane degrees due to the speed and damage

[lost bear]

You're definitely getting in at least one swing a second on the caxe though

[charred bronze]

i'd probably remove hyper-critical when running caxe too. I like it a lot on the taxe with H-V

[manic wolf]

Yeah, you are, but somehow it feels less effective than TacAxe, at least in my very anecdotal experience

[lost bear]

there's deffo an adjustment curve

you're not zippy any more but you bonk things harder when you get there

I like both axes and the shivs as different points on the continuum

[manic wolf]

I dont even run HC on TacAxe tbh, no need

[lost bear]

now if only chainaxe rips didn't fuck with adrenaline smiter

[manic wolf]

Hyperviolence on its own is enough an you can save points in left tree

[charred bronze]

I'm not really missing anything I care about too much in this build

[lost bear]

Melee scum almost has an issue of having too many points though, in practice HC+HV gets you a DPS boost on the axes

even if on paper, HC occasionally blanks out HV

[charred bronze]

I know no one agrees with me about H-C being good, but it feels better when I use it

H-V drops off, hyper critical can deliver elite one-taps with no ramp

I love that

[lost bear]

and I found that on the caxe at least, you farm overkill damage very easily (just overhead a random trash mob if you really need to)

[manic wolf]

Stuff dies so fast with HV I just struggle to justify spending the extra points

Particularly when the loss elsewhere is something like stam on dodge

[charred bronze]

yeah, for caxe I think it makes a lot of sense to drop H-V, then walk through elite swarms bopping everything

[flat mist]

It's this weird middle ground where i dont have enough points if I dip into the right side and a surplus if I don't

[lost bear]

though granted, HV also enables HC thresholds

don't think you can one-tap maulers without charging your axe

[charred bronze]

yeah, but at a certain point you're one-tapping everything you can one-tap with H-C anyway

at least you can with rampage running

[flat mist]

Wait, people aren't running hyper-critical... what in the fuck

[lost bear]

issue is again, melee scum kinda has a few elective points to drop somewhere if you do the centre-left spec

[charred bronze]

people don't like that it kills H-V stacks

[lost bear]

people are being unnecessarily neurotic about HV stacks

[flat mist]

Do they think it overrides it or something lol