hivescum-class

[near mauve]

absolute cancer

[final temple]

yeah. I can see shivs + bpistol being an interesting combo

[near mauve]

they spam too many to make them that deadly

[north plank]

this double tap react shit blows

[mighty belfry]

Also makes blinders quite a bit more potent actually

[clever wren]

Maybe in Darktide 2

[mighty belfry]

Extra radius puts in work with lethal prox. Makes sample collector far more reliable.

[north plank]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-kris-susie-krusie-kiss-gif-18123070916112969832

[final temple]

lethal proximity also has this cute interaction with the boomstick…

[bronze glade]

lmao yeah true

[hardy maple]

its not crushers that are the problem its ranged enemies in my experience

[charred bronze]

I mean, I'm moving around a lot anyway because of stuff spawning behind me half the time, and I don't want to 100% depend on vulture to save me. There's a 2 sec difference between those clips, and some of that is down to luck.

I'm gonna try it for a few runs, anyway. I am prepared to be convinced

[bronze glade]

oh i don't run vulture

[bronze glade]

vulture does make sense with DAP/Vraks tho

i run dependency on bistol desp

[bronze glade]

bugtide

[limber cradle]

Took a bad stimm

[charred bronze]

that does change things considerably

[tropic crag]

when the edibles kick in

[charred bronze]

what's your build look like?

[radiant swift]

that boy fent leaning on a friday afternoon

[icy scaffold]

Vulture is only good for running vultures dodge. (Unless you simply like funny movement speed). Chem dependency is just better all around.

[charred bronze]

to be fair, vulture's dodge is broken OP right now

but I imagine the dependency leading into cooldown stimm for desperado uptime is very good. I haven't tried it yet

[bronze glade]

still playing around with it but this is what i currently have

with cdr stimm

[keen timber]

I have an old clip of an ogryn just… dying

Literally just instantly dying

To air

[icy scaffold]

Eh, still doesn’t save you from crushers and maulers. So you’re still using normal dodges anyways. I prefer having the extra DR, Crit, and CDR for more brrrrt time. I even just have CDR on my stim too

[keen timber]

It’s not extra Crit

[tropic crag]

i mean its still a pretty constant damage buff and toughness regen procc if you aren't already running vultures dodge

[keen timber]

It’s the same Crit and less raw damage

Wait no

It’s 5 less Crit I guess

[tropic crag]

the "funny movement speed" that you treated like a joke stat is actually what keeps you safe from crushers and maulers tbh

[zenith pagoda]

I nearly went an entire havoc 40 game without taking any damage on hivescum but then a burster fucked me

[tender marten]

a common story

[tropic crag]

flew too close to the sun

[radiant swift]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-fuck-fucked-get-fucked-fallout-new-vegas-gif-568499856954385743

[main wagon]

Oh little Icarus

[bronze glade]

i really wished HIV got more move speed buffs

why does psyker have more move speed buffs than HIV

[tropic crag]

honestly i think all 3 keystones are kind of really good

[icy scaffold]

You have a super long dodge and good speed before you even take Vultures

[main wagon]

I don’t like abbreviating scum as HIV

[charred bronze]

cdr only, or do you have rending on it?

Using bonesaw or shivs?

[main wagon]

HS might get mixed up with “heavy sword” but Scum is unmistakable lmao

[bronze glade]

No rending. I use shivs

[charred bronze]

sure, that's why I don't depend on it

[bronze glade]

You can take rocket launcher

If you want more carapace deletion

[main wagon]

Rending shiv gang

2 knives + heavies is a magic trick

Makes crushers just disappear

[tropic crag]

so you don't need anything else to keep you safe from crushers and maulers then and shouldn't be a selling point for putting points in other nodes

[tight musk]

Wow, other people using stimm supply also gives you stacks of chem dependency if you have the keystone.

[tropic crag]

ganger

[tender marten]

scummer

[bronze glade]

Sharing is caring

[sturdy linden]

I am becoming a huge fan of the RPG

[charred bronze]

unload isn't amazing, but would that damage add to the bistols explosions?

[sturdy linden]

It just makes an impending problem not be a problem anymore

[tropic crag]

i've been seeing alot of it, its more fun than overly useful but its still way more useful than it was

like now its good AND fun

[tight musk]

That's probably enough stability for a shotgun.

[charred bronze]

I dunno, I've saved a few pugs from clear wipe situations with it. It's so good at quickly clearing breathing room

[icy scaffold]

Yea same to slightly more crit on dependency. The damage doesn’t really matter at that point since everything that’s not a crusher dies to dual Uzis at around the same rate. So more dakka goes brrrrt

[tropic crag]

and i think both the tox nade and blinders have more usecases, i'm not saying the rpg is bad... its just like... the worst player on an all star team , still an allstar

[sturdy linden]

The beta chem grenade user: "Oh no, a pack of Bulwarks and Crushers rounded the corner with a Flamer hiding behind them and a bunch of Maulers from the flanks, guess I need to throw down my icky ground and hope my team kills a few so that the explosions pop and start killing them"

The chad rocket user: shoots one rocket, no more pack

[tropic crag]

blinders user: just presses W and fights them

[sturdy linden]

(All characters are fictional. No Arbiter's feelings were hurt in the production of this skit.)

[charred bronze]

don't gotta fight them if they're already dead

[tropic crag]

i only partake in media in which at least 5 arby got their feelings hurt at minimum.

[charred bronze]

honestly the cc nades are probably better in an organized group

but the zook is great for pugs

[zenith pagoda]

It's a bit clunky but good

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/jamsheed-rocket-launcher-military-soldier-rpg-god-gif-17812798

[tight musk]

Shooting both barrels on a double barrel and then watching your character only load one shell cause you technically have a triple barrel shotgun is kinda cursed.

[main wagon]

Yup, that’s me. Bet you’re wondering how we got in this crazy situation

[charred bronze]

my biggest problem with it is a random object or poxwalker causing a premature detonation

[bronze glade]

zooka is what ogryn frag wished it was lmfao

[tropic crag]

Don't gotta have fun if we put the toys away before you show up (this is how i feel about insta deleting problems lol)

[sturdy linden]

Real

[tropic crag]

the oggy is the RPG

[limber cradle]

How it feels to use Zooka

[bronze glade]

rip jamsheed

[main wagon]

Mortis Trials giving you a rocket back if you kill a special/elite makes me want that in regular matches

Except make it like “only killing 3+ gives back a rocket”

[junior vigil]

Using the zook on a single human boss enemy is sooo funny to me

[tropic crag]

for real tho oggy's dont' look at a crusher swarm and go "oh no" because every build accidently has all the answers for crushers

[main wagon]

So you’re encouraged to not just shoot 2 maulers

[limber cradle]

Buddy they cry hard enough about infinite ammo, could you imagine infinite rockets?

[main wagon]

And give Ogryn 2 footballs

[lilac ermine]

1 rocket every 100 kills sounds fair

[charred bronze]

lol that would be hopelessly broken

[tropic crag]

it would be terrible tbh

[sturdy linden]

Here we go again

[charred bronze]

give me chaos wastes DT where you can make absurd builds like that

[main wagon]

As El Presidente, I’d not give a fuck what “they” care about. Only what brings my Ogryn players joy and whimsy

[tropic crag]

more fair is 3 rockets every grenade pickup

[limber cradle]

Penultimo shall make it happen.

[final temple]

mortis isn’t even hard enough to warrant that. does the rotund carcharodon want us to celebrate absolute war crimes? xD

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/team-fortress-2-threaten-soldier-tf2-sniper-tf2-engineer-tf2-gif-8138722919780210833

[tropic crag]

lol i have lived through some pretty terrible tide metas... i can tell you right now "infinite rockets" would be the worst

[main wagon]

Yeah I found very few times with hyper desperado that it was worthwhile to pull out the rocket lmao

[limber cradle]

For everyone else.

[main wagon]

But it was nice for the mutie wave

[tropic crag]

including me, i wouldn't want to play with that

[final temple]

that aside… I want rocket jump on HS.

[fierce python]

Outcast engineer moment

[charred bronze]

realized I accidentally sold one of my 16% toughness curios. Check shop. 17% there. Good times

[main wagon]

Bless fuck

I’m gonna boot up just to check shop

[tight musk]

Also if you have enough reload speed stacked up, you reload 2 shells even after only shooting one.

[alpine hazel]

does the crate buff you even if ur stimm is on cd

[rotund agate]

btw, I at least feel like there are few Stimm Supply-scum players who actually take DR nodes on the stimm tree just for making themselves (and especially teammates) get downed less often in bad situations... (I am one of those support-scum players)

[tropic crag]

the toughness tree on stims is under valued. its useful tbh

[livid raven]

i think it's very bad

[main wagon]

Tbh since stims stack, I’d rather you stack my rending

Or CDR

[livid raven]

i think every branch beats out 16 DR and 50 toughness

[tropic crag]

its very good for trading health and toughness to get a job done... it makes it so the class can start doing that once per cycle of stims... its not the best but its got usecases if you're the type of person to treat your health bar and toughness as currency to trade

[main wagon]

Chances are if we’re efficiently turning anything that comes through the choke into red mist, DR isn’t as effective as making sure carapace doesnt push the line further back and allow a bomber to get a cheeky grenade through 2 doorways

[tropic crag]

you... need your stims damage to do that?

[broken bear]

yellow = bosses
blue = horde

for needle gun yea?

[main wagon]

No, killing in general does that

[livid raven]

you don't need your toughness stim to survive that either

[main wagon]

I don’t like building for getting hit, on any class

[dim moth]

yellow=everything that isn't trash
blue=wasting ammo into trash

[tropic crag]

yello also good for carapace and elites and specials in general

[tropic crag]

did i say that?

[livid raven]

i mean by that logic you don't take any stimm

you don't need a stim to do anything

[tropic crag]

i said the use case is trading toughness as a currency

[plucky nymph]

Its not very good at hordes but if you catch stacked hordes such as climbing / waterfalling hordes, you will absolutely ruin them

[main wagon]

Because ideally it doesn’t happen. Yes we’re human and we’ll take a hit inevitably, but I don’t like heavily investing into “but what if you play like a malice player”

[broken bear]

thx

[main wagon]

I’m gonna feel real stupid taking Marty Zealot, not using a barrel to drop my HP, and then still not taking a single hit the entire mission

[broken bear]

breaking in docs while doing aurics is actual masochism

[rotund agate]

I do run some CDR on mine, and usually just Barrage 2 or 3 at most... (taking Fervor for movespeed or Spur 5 for stun immunity takes a lot of points)

[tropic crag]

no my logic is that i look at usecases to asses value... i said the toughness tree was the worst still but undervalued... i then said it was undervalued because its usecase is niche but it does in fact have usecases

[livid raven]

yeah i don't think you should take toughness just in case 16% DR does anything

it's funny because if you don't get hit it does actually do nothing at all

[tropic crag]

and its use case isn't "live better" its "i'm going to trade some of my resources to do this right now and because of the stim i can make that trade once every min and half"

[radiant swift]

I mean it just doesn't really do that though?

[livid raven]

yeah lol

it doesn't do that at all

[tropic crag]

the dr isn't part fo the usecase

[main wagon]

I had dropped CDR in favor of Fury II and Reflex (Reload Speed + Reduced Recoil) but I do want to give CDR another try now that your stim cooldown starts when you take it

[radiant swift]

it's 16% dr amd a 50% toughness restore

[tropic crag]

it doesn't give you back 50% toughness?

[livid raven]

you are spending 45s of cooldown to replenish 50% toughness?

just go bash some poxwalker or something

[main wagon]

Zealot chastise with no crit

[tropic crag]

with the 50% toughness you can trade out your toughness bar and end in a bad spot on purpose then get back 50% and live

[main wagon]

Tragic innit

[charred bronze]

they need to take the provided toughness up to 100% or substantially increase the DR to make it worth using for that usecase imo

[livid raven]

they need to change that ass toughness regen modifier

[tropic crag]

that would make it broken, i'd rather it stay a niche that most people don't see the value in

[charred bronze]

I want burning my stimm to save my ass in that moment, not leave me in range of a crusher overhead to kill me outright

[tropic crag]

because i'm tired of FS buffing things for people who can't find uses for things that i have fun with lol

[radiant swift]

just make it actually work like it's should (ie increasing any source of toughness gen at least personal)

[livid raven]

it should be changed to toughness replenishment i agree

[charred bronze]

Every talent and ability is a zero sum game though

[tropic crag]

that would make it overly broken tbh... like hilariously so

[main wagon]

Fair does. I would argue it’s better for the game that most things have more than just a very specific niche use case, but I do understand the sentiment

[livid raven]

not even close to broken

it would still be worse than cdr even

[charred bronze]

there's opportunity cost for taking stuff that doesn't work as well as other stuff

[rotund agate]

gunner groups, and traitor captain + traitor lieutenant (a generic twins boss) combo from the prayer shrines are why my teams wipe too often, and so I take some DR...

[charred bronze]

you can always choose to do so for fun or challenge, but, you get what I'm saying

[livid raven]

that 16% DR for 15 seconds isn't saving you in those cases

[final temple]

I doubt it would be worse than gold toughness.

[charred bronze]

it's the gas grenades. They're absolutely brutal for area denial when so much crap is going on

[radiant swift]

if there was no activation animation sure, but no way I am gonna try that over cdr letting me have higher uptime on my special and preventing the situation in the first place

[tropic crag]

i've played enough oggy to know how strong replenishment is , damage stops mattering when you can't die

[charred bronze]

and people get absolutely wrecked when they step on them by accident

[main wagon]

Book zealots in my games have been proving much more effective than anyone’s stim box that I walk over, I gotta agree

[tropic crag]

preventing you doing something you can't do otherwise? i'm talking about making a choice and acting on a plan made in a moment and not an "oh no i'm gonna die" thing

[main wagon]

Gold toughness is still yolked

[charred bronze]

yoked?

[dim moth]

wow you must either have som shit scum players, or vastly overestimate how much chorus is helping

[rotund agate]

I don't mean just that. My teammates seemingly tend to prefer melee combat against the twin, thus getting shredded to pieces...

[livid raven]

you prefer ranged combat against the twins?

[main wagon]

Infinite boss stagger + baby shield does wonders for the average pug

They can’t kite cspawn

They can’t keep a pogryn locked

If it’s a DH most people die instantly

[charred bronze]

gotta melee the break the shields. And melee kills the unshielded versions fast with the right weapons.

[tropic crag]

people who sit there and shoot any of those types of bosses upset me, makes them so much harder to manage

[radiant swift]

i see what you are talking about, I don't see it as particularly useful when I could just like not do that? having more uptime on my abilities lets me not need to do that

[charred bronze]

not to mention in melee they're not shooting they're fucking plasma pistols everywhere

you SHOULD be meleeing them

[tropic crag]

i'm still saying its the weakest, just that people undervalue it... i just also don't think this game needs you to make the "optimal" choice ever to thrive... even up to h40 tbh

[charred bronze]

I'm annoyed that the shield seems to nullify needler ticks. DoTs should keep ticking behind shields on all opponents

[radiant swift]

I mean there is non-optimal and there is just worse then every other option

[tropic crag]

people are so weird about min maxing tide games when it doesn't really matter if you do or dont

[dim moth]

oh man infinite boss stagger

[rotund agate]

ahh, I see. I guess the game just spawns sword twin very often when my teammates do a shrine on auric...

[dim moth]

you know what the other two zealot abilites let you do to a boss?

[charred bronze]

people interested in games tend to optimize them. That's part of the fun. However, given teh opportunity, people will optimize the fun out of a game

[dim moth]

kill it instantly

[tropic crag]

optimal means most desirable, or best possible... so anything non optimal will, by definition, be worse... this is just how those words and ideas work

[main wagon]

Players are incapable of measuring boss damage beyond “either it dies in 3 hits or it stays on the field forever because nobody will sneeze at the plogryn”

[charred bronze]

they pull out a sword up close, and they pull out a gun at range afaik. They aren't divided up the way the actual twins are

[alpine hazel]

does the stimm crate buff you when you don't have a stimm available

[charred bronze]

though I don't know what the difference is between the shielded and unshielded captain

[radiant swift]

not me accidentally pulling a daemonhost then just half-face tanking it with rampage and shivs

[rotund agate]

oh. didn't know that... thx for clarifying!

[dim moth]

you only get the corruption immunity and corruption cleanse

[main wagon]

Okay? I didn’t start my statement by trying to say that book is the best zealot ability available to them

I said book was more effective than putting toughness on your stim and dropping the crate

[tropic crag]

thats kind of my point on that matter, people tend to lose alot of the fun of tide games, theres a reason there are oggy slap only h40 runs, because thats the fun of tide games

[alpine hazel]

i heard there was a bug that lets u double stack the buff

[main wagon]

Instead of going off on a tangent, please try to stay with the conversation. I’m not the person you think you’re trying to convince homie lmao

[dim moth]

was never real

[final temple]

or at least tick on the shields

[main wagon]

I’ve slaved nothing but chastise on my zealot since launch

[alpine hazel]

was mr e hallucinating then

[charred bronze]

doing janky stuff for lols is absolutely fun for a subset of players, and there should always be room for that

[dim moth]

yeah

multiple stimm crates stack with eachother

[radiant swift]

I mean that is very true, crate is for dmg or cdr buffs

[dim moth]

you cannot activate your own stimm and then use crate to stack on yourself

[charred bronze]

but games need to be designed with optimization in mind, and I don't fault players for finding optimal play. That's part of the game

[dim moth]

your own stimm crate will also stack with you if you can get the stimm cooldown below 15 seconds

[frigid thorn]

What perks do you run on the heavy sword? Flak+Unyielding?

[main wagon]

Cara/Uny

[radiant swift]

guh

[main wagon]

With rampage you don’t need flak

[frigid thorn]

Awesome, ty

[radiant swift]

on the heavy sword

[main wagon]

[radiant swift]

that doesn't damage cara hardly at all

[frigid thorn]

wasn't sure if it was carapace/unyielding as usual lol

[tropic crag]

i don't fault the player i fault capitalism at the very end of the day but we had that talk yesterday in this chat . But also i the modern idea of "perfect being the enemy of good" being the norm to be a big problem... people act like 5% makes a difference in these games... and it doesn't

[dim moth]

hyper violence

[charred bronze]

it goes back to the player buckets I was talking about the other day

[radiant swift]

hmm

[frigid thorn]

it's still Headtaker/Deathblow right

and mk9 for the easiest to use one?

[charred bronze]

some players, many players, don't enjoy being suboptimal. If they were car guys, they'd want the best parts and the most go fast

[dim moth]

yeah

[main wagon]

Is that the middle one with the cool guard?

[frigid thorn]

yeah

[main wagon]

Yeah

[frigid thorn]

the cool guard one lol

[dim moth]

just to have to obey the speed limit anyways

bully for them

[frigid thorn]

i haven't used it in a while so just making sure lol

[charred bronze]

other players are more like the kind of people who participate in the 24 Hours of Lemons

[main wagon]

Great wide sweeping heavies and a nice overhead if you sprint heavy

[frigid thorn]

I love the 24 hours of Lemons

[charred bronze]

they LOVE the jank and doing weird shit. They're often not the same people

[radiant swift]

i'd play around with the different mks to find what you like

[frigid thorn]

Monocle Bentely for the win

[charred bronze]

yes, but it's all emotion right, at the end of the day? They love the idea that their car is super fast, and they can unleash it now and then. In a game, you get to unleash your optimized go fast all the time

and it's about pursuing the satisfaction of kicking ass, or posting big numbers, or whatever

not every player is about that, but a lot are. You also have folks who're happy with a base camry, as long as they're riding with friends

[main wagon]

Tbh for me, it’s about being able to have a build that reflects the effort I put it

[charred bronze]

different player buckets

[main wagon]

If I’m playing the game to the best of my ability, I don’t want to be held back because I took very suboptimal gear and now can’t make up for the other players’ shortcomings

[charred bronze]

good games have aspects that appeal to multiple player types with flexible design. But the optimization crowd will always be there no matter what

[tropic crag]

i don't think its actually that. its that they don't want any hurdles, you are right that there is a subset of people who enjoy to be optimal, but thats a smaller set of players than the vibe meme build guys. I call those guys the "numbers guys". They dont' bother me because they are still having fun. I'm talking more about people who don't want to engage with anything they just want the end product they see.... so when i was growing up my family was a race car family, like my dad and a ton of family race cars on tracks.... most of them loved it and had fun, but sometimes a rich guy would show up and try to buy his way to the end product of fun... thats what bothers me

[charred bronze]

because solving games is a big part of how humans interact with games

[tropic crag]

so usually when i'm talking about it i'm trying to encourge people to engage with the game so hopefully they can learn what they find fun actually

[frigid thorn]

Are the combos on the heavy sword 9 heavy special loop for st, and heavy lights for hordes?

[dim moth]

no lights

never use them

they're BAD

[charred bronze]

sure, but people are very good at finding what's fun for them, or they just disengage

[main wagon]

Mostly heavies, and don’t forget your special stuns ragers and shit

[charred bronze]

I'm trying to find the timmy, johnny, spike expanded article, because it does a better job of describing what I'm talking about in terms of player appeal

[main wagon]

Oh you already got that

Sorry my brain is still booting up

Cold start

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/ricky-bobby-gif-3478694

[charred bronze]

here it is. Rosewater was a genius at understanding player psychographics:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-revisited-2006-12-18

[frigid thorn]

ok sounds good

heavy time

[charred bronze]

these archetypes apply to basically all types of play

[tropic crag]

ehhhh i think it has alot of the traps that love has... there are alot of people who don't actually understand what love feels like within them because they confuse it for the peak emotions that hit you at the start for "love" and then ignore the real love that is there. I think fun now adays is often confused for that feeling when you get a reward or things go just right... and people recoil when they "fun" isn't ONLY that

[charred bronze]

and they're an excellent guide for making sure you're not just designing a game for yourself, but to appeal to players whose psychology is very different from your own

[ruby kelp]

The only thing i wish they did with this class was lean heavier into the drugs and chem stuff, thats what i find the most fun about it so far

[tropic crag]

and i don't mean everyone... i think its just been a growing problem with how media has been happening over the years

[main wagon]

In the same vein this reminds me of skate culture when I was young.

There weren’t really big names for boards like “oh woah he has a lambo deck” so when a kid in my hometown built a fucking STEEL deck out of scrap metal and actually rode that around town, he was Him™

[charred bronze]

it's got a whole spec, a blitz, and a custom stimm. They leaned in pretty hard tbh

woulda been nice if adrenaline and desperado got a similar treatment with implants

[ruby kelp]

Yea but even harder, i dont need dmg if i can watch everything melt

[tropic crag]

the only time skating gear was notable when i was young was because some of my friends got sponsorships signed so it would be like "yo why is billy wearing all that?"

[final temple]

I don’t think you can lean harder into it than making consuming stimms part of the rotation

[dim moth]

chemical dependency keystone

[ruby kelp]

Sometimes you just wanna slam cocaine for your stimms

[main wagon]

I’m just glad that I see more kids wearing helmets these days

[charred bronze]

Eh, I don't think the vision was ever for scum to be that dude from League of Legends. Whats his name

[main wagon]

The one stoogie adult thing I’ve become die hard on is helmets

[charred bronze]

toxic puddle guy

[tropic crag]

helmets were big in my area, but only after a few incidents

[main wagon]

Skating and biking are cool. Cracking open your skull and never riding again is very not cool

[ruby kelp]

Fair

[main wagon]

For me, all I needed to see was that Tony Hawk wears a helmet on his home ramp

[dim moth]

I dunnoooooooooooo

[tropic crag]

i was die hard on it when i was little, the rule became if you could beat me in a fight you could ride without a helmet became a rule after our friend had a bad scare

[main wagon]

If someone wants to call it cringe they can do it from their speech-to-text chair

[charred bronze]

like, with implant paths you coulda chosen to make your base class be slow and tanky, or light and fast attack speed high crit, or whatever, and then talent from there. Probably too much of a burden to balance, but it would have been interesting

[final temple]

still wish it had a better interaction with supply. ACR is literally worthless for supply.

[dim moth]

100% crit chance forever

[final temple]

I am talking about the keystone itself.

[tropic crag]

singed

[dim moth]

yes

[zealous ravine]

guh i wish it was stimm cdr

[ruby kelp]

Acr?

[dim moth]

can't get 100% crit chance without chem dependency

[zealous ravine]

ability cdr is sad on hive scum

[charred bronze]

I see what you're driving at. I'm just saying a lot of players are 'spikes', especially on a discord like this

[final temple]

Ability Cooldown Reduction. The buff where a tick reduces more than 1 sec of cooldown

[charred bronze]

and they know what they like, and don't want to mess with stuff that isn't cutting edge

[tropic crag]

yeah i just get grumpy when i see people causing their own problems when it comes to having fun

[ruby kelp]

Ah

[cedar venture]

Chem dep with ramp feels so good

[charred bronze]

lol, join every single game designer ever

making sure players don't fuck themselves (or each other) out of a good time is a big part of the job

[final temple]

I would switch THAT with the actual keystone so that you can choose to lean into ACR for rampage and desperado

[tropic crag]

lol i was briefly one forever ago, but crashed out so hard i started building furniture for rich people ... so probably a holdover

[charred bronze]

do you do custom woodworking or similar?

[tropic crag]

i did but i don't anymore, was going through school to do nursing more recently but thats been on hold for other life things

[ruby kelp]

Yea the only stim ability i really use is the ability cooldown one

[tropic crag]

but yeah for like 10 years i did custom jobs only basically

[cedar venture]

I just spec in pure attack speed and movement

become blender

[ruby kelp]

I just feel the more i can rampage the more enjoyment of my drugs i get

[final temple]

As somewhat of a stimm dealer myself I use strength + rending. comes back reliably on a 15s timer

[charred bronze]

my favorite thing about scum so far is that it's generated a ton of build discussion. It's a hard class to 'solve' so far.

[tropic crag]

i feel like on rampage this is the highest value path but thats just vibes and not running any math

[charred bronze]

the obvious answers work well, but there's room to explore

[cedar venture]

well ramp + attack speed + chem dep youre getting it pretty consistent

[grand jewel]

yeah there really doesn't seem to be just one do this and this is the class GG

ranged is goated, melee is goated, second flavour melee is goated, support is goated

[ruby kelp]

I love how the class feels crappy till 10

[final temple]

for rampage I would take CDR + chem dep. getting rampage back asap.

[tropic crag]

to me its like oggy, it isn't a matter of "do this" its a matter of "what do you want to do?"

[grand jewel]

[cedar venture]

it took me until 25 to figure out what i was doing

skill issue for me

[tropic crag]

i just go adren, i think both work tho as they help reduce downtime, adren just fills in the gap and chem dep shortens it

[ruby kelp]

I figured it out the minute my weapons werent hitting and then till lvl 15 to get a good feel lol

[cedar venture]

lol

I just smacked my head in the wall til it worked

[ruby kelp]

And then lvl 30 to realize the bone saw is basically my favorite melee

[tropic crag]

this is how one learns a tide game the best

[tropic crag]

yeah bonesaw was a surprise to me, i like it ALOT more than i thought

[final temple]

because rampage has a downside after, I feel like trying to compensate for that by talents and stimm seems reasonable. I don’t want a rampage end to leave me spiraling into downstate.

[cedar venture]

honestly i dont understand how Bone Saw works, i try using it and i just dont like the swing pattern

[ruby kelp]

I didnt think it would be as fun as it was until i rampaged through a mix horde

[cedar venture]

especially in high hordes

[bronze glade]

its mostly shock and awe + light spam

[cedar venture]

ahh

[bronze glade]

the heavies are dogshit for hordes

[ruby kelp]

What sirosky said

[bronze glade]

and the single target uses HL but it's pretty mid

[tropic crag]

the stam loss is an upside, it gives you a damage spike and you can still dodge and sprint dodge during it, i was more talking about the downtime of less damage after it wears off... i think both keystones are just really good with rampage

[ruby kelp]

The heavy feels good aganist a boss

[cedar venture]

its just DB shotty and Shivs for me

[final temple]

bonesaw really needs some awareness of its strengths. you want some solid cleave to make it start mulching. but once you DO mulch, all dem bones get sawed.

[tropic crag]

they are shit to spam against hordes, but can be very very very good to mix into your light spam sometimes

[grand jewel]

yeah I don't like the swings much either but it does plenty good damage and toxin amounts

[ruby kelp]

Im only using class exclusive weapons

[bronze glade]

shivs are def the best unique HIV melee

[bronze glade]

well i tried mixing heavies and lights, and heavies just slow things down too much

clear time goes up

[grand jewel]

I've just been using a rampage/adren/hyper crit/violence for the last few days and its disgusting

[cedar venture]

ye it took me forever to figure out it has a brittleness toxin

[grand jewel]

with mk1 shivs

[tropic crag]

honestly i just hit each enemy once until toxin mania and HV start snowballing

[final temple]

I mean, I cannot disagree with that general assessment. but no stam means that situations against bosses can become dicey.

[ruby kelp]

The needle gun is alot more fun than i thought

[grand jewel]

yeah needle gun is great

[ruby kelp]

I just wish people would stop using the explosive one when im in melee and it starts making me bounce

[cedar venture]

yea when i saw it intially i was like theres no way that this does good dmg, took it in game and jaw just dropped on how fast it melts

[final temple]

mostly a lack of awareness what the marks do.

[ruby kelp]

Its so funny to whip it out on crushers and bosses

[cedar venture]

if only the explosion from one of the toxin variants had a bigger explosion radius

[tropic crag]

the only boss that should be hitting you during a block is the DH, everyone else you can dodge around or pulse back and forth in place.... there are rare times it can get you killed but generally you were already gonna get wrecked if that was the case (or badly hurt lol)

[ruby kelp]

Which i get but when im smacking em with a bonesaw it becomes a problem for knowing LOL

[final temple]

ideally. Sometimes I am too drunk or somebody else is just not on top of the game. I rather have… contingency. Like wearing diapers when doing stimms.

[grand jewel]

[tropic crag]

maybe its a juggling the horde moment but I'm mixing heavies in when i'm looking around at my surroundings to see what needs doing... so when i go to spin around and look i'll charge a heavy and drag the hitbox back to the fight... so to me its not losing time, its filling the spot that would have been lost time

[charred bronze]

It's so good. I love it for monstrosities

[tropic crag]

i do full 180s or 360s ALOT in fights

[ruby kelp]

Its also funny enough great for those specials you only have time to hit once before switching back

[tropic crag]

so sometimes i'll go "L>L>L>L>shove> look around while charging> drag that heavy hitbox back to the fight"

[limber cradle]

I 360 when I reload tbh

Seems like an optimal time to make sure there's no surprise crusher

[tropic crag]

then they appear right after you turn back

but yeah its just a vt2 habit for me to check my surrounds regularly mid horde fight

otherwise you look up and your team is 8 miles away losing a fight to 2 dogs somehow

[dim moth]

https://fximgur.com/a/kKjjr8d

[limber cradle]

Director loves spawning a fuckin slave rat behind you

Lmfao

[tight musk]

I feel like sometimes the game just decides I should have terrible performance for no reason.

[limber cradle]

Yes

[grand jewel]

if I ever hear that sound in DT im alt f4ing

[amber sundial]

i swear the director just treats us like we dont have object permanence when deciding where to spawn stuff

[tropic crag]

lol thats either the case where it did spawn in there and skipped the standing animation because no one was looking... or he was all the way in the back there and did the fast sprint as he was turning

[limber cradle]

No i agree.

[versed spruce]

I think it was an incredibly smart decision to implement the exploding poxwalkers en masse right after dropping a class that spams ranged indiscriminately

[limber cradle]

Sometimes it's egregious

[dim moth]

alongside a bug that makes it easier to get hit by their explosions :)

[amber sundial]

like i remember a game where i killed an entire horde, turned away for a second to deal with a far off gunner, and theres just a random pox walker infront of me as i turn back to where the horde died

[tropic crag]

honestly all the other classes have been exploding me just as much as gangers have... i think its a player knowledge problem

[final temple]

AND making sure our hitboxes are fat as the average lass on a friday night pub bender.

[limber cradle]

Same tier as "buff crushers and add a modifier to only spawn crushers" and "make the original iteration of dogs modifier stick on every mission for 3 months then go on vacation", its just a fatsharkism

[dim moth]

I'll see an entire set of poxwalkers die to soulblaze, turn away from them and instantly get hit in the back by a poxwalker

And notice that poxwalker doesn't have the soulblaze decals on him

So I guess he was just immune to warpfire

[tropic crag]

sometimes when staggered they get knocked behind terrain and become invisible for a while, could be he was there the whole time and just came back into the level

[amber sundial]

istg if my poxwalkers are blinkstepping while on the floor to avoid detection

[charred bronze]

That bug is making me feel like a new player. I hate it. Dog, Mutie, and net dodges are also harder to cleanly pull off I'm finding.

The number of times I've been hit by nets, dogs, and muties that were clearly adjacent and moving past me on screen lately. . .

[dim moth]

dogs and muties have done that to me forever

trappers have questionable line of sight sometimes but that is also not new

[charred bronze]

Some of that is skill and server jank for sure, but man

[tropic crag]

like after playing so much, yes there are times where things spawn weird, it gets even weird at high havok.... buuuuuut alot of it is just players missing things or like... the game couldn't do any better because it needs to spawn things in and the players are in awkward places to make that happen

[glacial gyro]

Does pocket toxin have any interaction with chem nade

[versed spruce]

My biggest grievances with specials are bursters not getting shoved and dogs being made of magnets

[tropic crag]

i'm finding it just as easy to side dodge a mutie while getting a heavy and a light or two off as it charges by, i've been clipped by some overheads i shouldnt have is my big thing

dodging dogs is something only maniacs do so i don't partake in that form of madness

[grand jewel]

muties have been A okay for me

[charred bronze]

Yeah, I'll gladly accept getting hit by short notice sound alerts Injust don't react to in time. But when I dodge and can see that the thing should pass by and it hits anyway it gives me big sad

[amber sundial]

man the stims, im telling you they put magnets in your blood, its all Big Pox Hounds fault

[tropic crag]

yeah the games been gaslighting alot of our muscle memory lol

[dim moth]

https://fximgur.com/a/OPVRepv

[charred bronze]

I bull fight muties all the time. It usually happens when Im6already dealing with another special or two

[dim moth]

this clip is the most egregious mutie grab I've ever had

[amber sundial]

i would've laughed if you immediately got downed on the ledge in that clip

[charred bronze]

It's this, 100%

[tropic crag]

lol yesterday i saw someone get netted by a max range net and must have been at max range for the hitboxes as well... it was funny it looked like the net sucked them in from like 4 feet away

[tight musk]

Run was going pretty good and then boss, crushers and bulwarks and a whole swarm of dogs all came together to crash the party.

[charred bronze]

That mutie is psychokinetic. Makes me feel a little better

[tropic crag]

he's got mr fantastic powers and strech armstronged you back up there

[limber cradle]

Darktide sometimes feels like the epitome of "i take the good with the bad"

[tropic crag]

thankfully muties usually throw you away from the ledges... usually

[dim moth]

no they mean if the flamer killed me

[tropic crag]

ohhhh

[unreal osprey]

someone check that snipers pc

[grand jewel]

chaos spawns and muties throwing you off ledges is prime comedy though

[amber sundial]

yea he got vacuumed up back the ledge where a flamer, sniper AND plague ogryn were waiting for him lmao

[grand jewel]

same with burgles throwing you off cliffs or into daemonhosts

[amber sundial]

burgles puking you into fire barrels after corrupting all but 1 of your HP

[tropic crag]

honestly? i feel like thats any media thats worth it... because a "perfect" media for anyone would suck for everyone because it would be too... level. Highs come with lows so i'll keep dealing with FS "bad" because the good is that sweet sweet melee

[exotic temple]

I feel attacked

[limber cradle]

Tbf that implies theres more bad than good

If I took the bad with the good there'd be more good

[dim moth]

back when fire barrels did damage to you while inside a burgle

toaster oven

[amber sundial]

yummers deep fried reject

[tropic crag]

no just that if someone sees more bad with the good because the media is not for them. so they should search for media that has more good than bad for them

[limber cradle]

Well, you see, these are the games inside of this niche.

It someone wanted to come along and make a tide game that doesn't break every other update I'd play it

[tropic crag]

theres been a few, they are generally considered boring

DRG was there for a while, idk what its doing now

[limber cradle]

The only other co op game I really, truly like is GTFO

[amber sundial]

DRG is just overclock grinding simulator to me now ive been so burnt out on it

[tropic crag]

gtfo didn't look that much fun to me tbh, not my style of game

[charred bronze]

I kinda don't mind because it's still playable, and I'll probably be a better player coming out of it.

I'm way more cautious about fucking doorways already, I'll tell you that much

[limber cradle]

DRG was fun exactly until I hit the OC grind

Once I hit the OC grind I stopped playing

[versed spruce]

Hot take but most of the overclocks aren't that fun and don't have fun synergies usually

[tropic crag]

its very playable, maybe its just an age thing but this game isn't even close to broken compared to alot of games throughout the history of video games... that all got higher praise then DT lmao

[amber sundial]

i managed to traumatize my friend with the "we need to find a terminal" quick voiceline

[dim moth]

just about every green/yellow overclock is boooooooooooooring

[versed spruce]

I run base (or objectively better stats overclock) most weapons

[charred bronze]

My brain didn't play nice with map routing in drg. Never found it as fun as my peers did

[limber cradle]

Thats great and all but I'd like to have more useful OCs than simply TFC on my driller lmfao

[haughty slate]

Has anyone tried taking a low viscosity booby trap build into higher level content? Seems like a bad meme build but I want to believe

[bronze glade]

works but radius is really small

[tropic crag]

it would probably work

most meme builds work

[dim moth]

such high enemy density in higher difficulties that you don't need to run a shit stimm really

[charred bronze]

Low viscosity boobie trap? Whatcha mean?

[haughty slate]

yeah I really wish they would increase the radius a bit on crate

[amber sundial]

is the booby trap explosion radius the full circle that gives stim buff or is it smalelr

[dim moth]

full circle

[dim moth]

intentionally bad stimm to spam crate with no cooldown

[charred bronze]

I found that thr damage from the crate explosion is pretty weak

[radiant swift]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1374399585073627299/rekt.gif

[limber cradle]

My issue is that like, my friends don't want to be carried and I've played enough GTFO to be able to do that, I also tbh don't want to run R1-3 with another group that may or may not keep playing the game.

[haughty slate]

you take one buff on your stim and take booby trap... now you have a 10-15 second landmine

[dim moth]

it's 7 tox stacks

Chem grenades cap at 6 for reference

7 tox stacks will kill just about every enemy in the game that is not an ogryn

[versed spruce]

That's before pocket toxin right

Or is that after

Either way that's plenty of tox

[dim moth]

before

[charred bronze]

That's not that much. Needler is what, 6 stacks per application? and it takes 3 to kill a crusher slow

[tropic crag]

i like helldivers again now that i don't have to take up like 160 gigs on my harddrive for it, its alot more fun at 22gigs lol

[bronze glade]

7 stacks is indeed a lot

[main wagon]

I wish FBC Firebreak wasn't a steaming pile of dogshit

It could've been so cool

[haughty slate]

The main issue with booby trap is that it's a lot of delayed damage, has an animation, and can only be placed right in front of you

[versed spruce]

7 stacks in an AoE

[haughty slate]

it's a lot of caveats

[amber sundial]

last time i played GTFO was like 3 years ago lol

[versed spruce]

Not one target getting tox'd

[tropic crag]

gtfo is basically just gun focused right?

[versed spruce]

Everything in that area

[radiant swift]

I remember seeing a lot of melee for stealth usage

[limber cradle]

Sometimes.

[radiant swift]

but I never actually played it

[amber sundial]

you better be able to hit your shots or those enemies hurt

[dim moth]

kind of?

resource scarcity forces you to learn to melee

and sneaky

[limber cradle]

There's one 2 "forced" stealth sections in GTFO but most new people play slow and stealthy

[rose flax]

Difference is it keeps stacking back to 6 while in the AOE
So it does more damage since it keeps resetting

[charred bronze]

It's not enough to kill a crusher/bulwark pack. Would soften then up slowly. It doesn't seem super great to me, but I've been wrong before

[main wagon]

UI changes allowing us to instantly change aura so that we always have multiple is so good fucking hell

[amber sundial]

last time i played GTFO they just added each melee has unique stats lol

[main wagon]

Thank the god emperor

[limber cradle]

You can gun down every single enemy in the game, they give you the ammo for it if you're using decent guns

[dim moth]

the only enemies that survive a stimm supply crate are scab ragers, maulers, and plasma gunners

and the ogryns obviously

[versed spruce]

Crushers die to it but those don't

[tropic crag]

probably near one tap at that point tho right? just a guess

[versed spruce]

Oh I was gonna say

[dim moth]

yeah

[amber sundial]

this implies monstrosities die to it

[rose flax]

I meant chem grenades, stim supply crate explosion doesn't do that

[limber cradle]

Ime it's the inverse, as you get better at GTFO you go faster and shoot more, drastically less stealth.

[charred bronze]

When I was playing with those talents in the psych I didn't use it on pox walkers, but they're not the usual problem

[dim moth]

yeah but like

[versed spruce]

Does anyone have the chart for tox ADMs

[dim moth]

I can just power walk through a room and stab everything in it to death

[tropic crag]

the only thing monstrosities do is eat hot chip and die tbh

[dim moth]

with my KNIFE

no alert

no worries

[limber cradle]

Yeah, till there's levels with perma alarms.

[dim moth]

look if I had friends to play that game with I'd know about these things

[amber sundial]

so true, bouta a week ago i had a plague ogryn straight up do 0 dmg on hit because servers were dying for my match

[limber cradle]

If you're NA I'll play it with you

[versed spruce]

When I hit a small creature over the head with a sledgehammer and it screams viscerally right next to ten other small creatures sleeping right next to it

[tropic crag]

lagswitching the plogryn

[versed spruce]

No alerts

[dim moth]

yeah but I fucking squat too loudly and it pisses them off

freaks

[amber sundial]

i love the fact one of the items they give you is just a giant ass flashlight, even though flashlights alert them

[dim moth]

I am NA but nah

[limber cradle]

You use it to reset everyones alert cycles.

[tropic crag]

i just don't think i'd want stealth in a horde shooter in general but i don't think its bad just not my thing

[limber cradle]

You shine that over a room and get them all in synch

[dim moth]

oh actually I was wrong plasma gunners do die to that

[manic wolf]

I enjoy stealth on Zealot, but that being said, I know full well it can really mess with teamplay unless you're using it to solve problems that otherwise might be hard to deal with

[tropic crag]

honestly as long as the player is decent i think a build like that could work fine... probably a struggle in like high havok but that doesn't matter much

[manic wolf]

A lot of people who use stealth use it as an "oh shit" button, and that just isnt conducive to being helpful

[dim moth]

I mean it'd be a slight struggle for me with my poor widdle 100% crit chance stimm spam build :(

But like

[amber sundial]

only time ive ever used stealth is for

the penances
funny bonk button

[dim moth]

20% extra strength for the other 3 goobers

[tropic crag]

yeah its sucks when i spin around to see what they are fighting and store it in my head and then just get obliterated by those things because they stealthed '

[dim moth]

and attack speed or cooldown

[haughty slate]

today I learned you can actually reduce the rocket launchers spread by aiming with right click

[amber sundial]

pre arms the rocket too so you dont have the firing delay

[tropic crag]

ogryn moment

[dim moth]

but yeah shit HURTS

[manic wolf]

Yeah... like the agro drop is stupid fucking strong if you use it to sandwich enemies or push gunners and shooters in awkward spots, but using it as a get out of jail free card can easily get your teammates killed

[versed spruce]

7 stacks of toxin is like nothing

Barely enough to kill a fly

[haughty slate]

bruh I didn't even know that the delay made the spread shrink... I just always thought it had a slight delay

I'm learning so much

[dim moth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779424458238459946/1380895902260269076/tenor_70.gif

[amber sundial]

there should 100% be a hud notif for teammate going stealth

[manic wolf]

That would be good yeah

[young herald]

so that doesn't reduce the spread, to be clear. The rocket launcher has a like 0.8-1s charging/arming time before it fires, where by default you click fire, it waits a bit and shrinks the reticle, and then fires. But by holding down right click, you do that same charging, but without firing it, so you can immediately send it when you left click

[versed spruce]

Best I can do is an ult voiceline that rarely actually plays

[tropic crag]

its just be more visual noise we all ignore tbh, unless it was super obvious

[young herald]

it's a weird way to limit the lawnchair, but it works, I suppose

[dim moth]

yeah make it make a clown honking sound and put a big rainbow wig and red nose on them for the rest of the mission

[haughty slate]

I never even noticed before. Me am not very observant.

[dim moth]

do it with smite too

[bronze glade]

if only radius was bigger

[haughty slate]

Do it with flame psykers too please

[keen timber]

whenever a psyker walks it should do the clown shoe noises

[haughty slate]

[dim moth]

okay psyker in general

picking psyker now has forced clown noises when you walk

[keen timber]

or the sqeaky chicken noises

[amber sundial]

can i get my full clown get up please, it'll improve morale amongst the rejects

[manic wolf]

I will wear my clown gear with pride after solo clutching 6 different times and dragging a basket of blueberries kicking and screaming to the dropship

[haughty slate]

ngl I like my Infiltrate vet

but that's because I actually use it to draw aggro by popping up and spooking all the backline with my autogun

https://tenor.com/view/lurking-creepyguy-plant-gif-11665121

[amber sundial]

im just imagining when you get overheaded you make a very quiet honk noise from your clown nose and thats it

[tropic crag]

whoopie cushion noise

[amber sundial]

hell or these rubber chicken

[keen timber]

@amber sundial way ahead of u

[amber sundial]

dang didnt see that

[keen timber]

what perks does the bolt pistol want

[amber sundial]

peak tho

[keen timber]

im assuming flak and maniac

[stark otter]

When would you use an auto gun?

Any versions

[keen timber]

when something is further than 5meters away from you typically, as is the point of most guns

[tropic crag]

when you want to go dakka dakka dakka mostly

[bronze glade]

kill anything really, if you have desperado

but especially elites that aren't crushers

[stark otter]

Yeah but the auto and stub pistols exist

[bronze glade]

though you can kill crushers pretty quickly with desp rending and rending stimm

[bronze glade]

both have way lower dps

[keen timber]

yeah but the infantry autogun matches or beats their dps

they lose in cool factor

but that's about it

[vast yoke]

does rending (specifically from the cartel special) affect toxin damage

[bronze glade]

yeah

[vast yoke]

okay sick

[bronze glade]

though tox already innately has high adms

[tropic crag]

i think autoguns are better for desp builds and the auto pistols and stub pistols work better as sidearms... but needle gun is king of the melee sidearms i think

[bronze glade]

so it won't see much of a benefit compared to bleed

[amber sundial]

wont do much but it'll help slightly

[keen timber]

autopistols are NOT sidearms imo

way too uh

unwieldy? for that sort of job

[random shuttle]

lol got 3 scums on mission

all Iron Riders

[tropic crag]

they work for how i play, because i'm either close enough for them to work or my bonk brain will be wanting to get closer anyway .... but yeah i agree they are not universally good for sidearms, but if you use them like a heavy las pistol kind of they work well enough

[stark otter]

I was thinking of running a gunslinger build with an autogun but maybe going with the cartel special crate and loading up on offensive stimm nodes

[tropic crag]

should work fine tbh

[keen timber]

I mean that sounds find, you'll perform better with desperado and vultures likely, but still shouldnt have issues

[stark otter]

My current meth cook build is mainly an all rounder with that stuff but mostly attack speed and toughness

[stark otter]

I have to much fun popping heads and running around the map with the dual pistols

Posted in a game with ogryn vet and psyker and had lots of fun this time

I'm guessing it's how the standard ganger is meant to play (in your average game)? Like an assassin/backline killer/harrassment

/dive

[vast yoke]

im honestly just trying to go crazy into tox damage rn

because why not

so chainaxe to stack "global" strength

[manic wolf]

No reason not to, Tox is very strong at the moment

[amber sundial]

3 other hivescum with strength rending stim crates to boost your dmg even further fr fr

[low harbor]

yes but mostly irrelevant, tox' lowest ADM is like 90%

[manic wolf]

Yeup

Tox is just stronk into anything

[vast yoke]

ah i see, i'll slot in something else then

should i go slaughterer + headtaker or headtaker + thunderous

mk4 chaxe

thunderous is prob overkill

but i am kinda going for overkill XD

[glacial gyro]

First off I would advise the mk12 ofer the mk4

slaughterer headtaker

[vast yoke]

yeah its impossible to upkeep rampage with mk4

unless i stack way too much stamina lmao

[stark otter]

"come on rotters, draw!"

[main wagon]

"Time for a shooting contest!"

[grand jewel]

OI, ROTTERS, COME AND GET IT

[peak bloom]

mobility dump stat for dual autopistols like always?

[grand jewel]

yes

[peak bloom]

somehow have 4 dump collats and 3 dump ammos

[main wagon]

[light goblet]

I hope fs makes the gap between 60 and 80 mobility more noticeable, its such a weak stat even if you want the mobility

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-ayasan-gif-24417454

[charred bronze]

vraks v IAG is excellent with desperado. very similar to daps, slightly faster ttk, and easier to get weakspot hits with too. Slightly reduced mobility. I tried both dumdum and deathspitter, and dumdum with speedloader and preferred the speedloader version. Barely noticed the loss of deathspitter, oddly

[grand jewel]

yeah literally just buff it

[main wagon]

mpregged again

Cant escape zealot chat

[limber cradle]

I also prefer speedloader to deathspitter on the IAG fwiw

[charred bronze]

fatshark: Mobility is now the best defensive stat in the game, offering you escalating toughness damage reduction and dodge state window in addition to improved mobility and faster weapon swaps, ads, etc. All those perfect stat weapons you have are now obselete.

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-rot-lil-nas-x-mpreg-pregnant-discord-gif-5991367321020313704

[last marsh]

fellow scummers

why is dependancy better than adrenaline frenzy?

[grand jewel]

its not

thanks for coming to my ted talk

[last marsh]

interesting

[charred bronze]

it might not be, but rampage is very very very good, so minimizing the cooldown on it is a viable play style

[last marsh]

i see i see

[charred bronze]

I haven't tried a build that does it yet

but I got one prepped

[manic wolf]

They're both good

[charred bronze]

I need a mod that gives a visual cue when I have adrenaline frenzy up though. I have no idea when it's running or not, so I don't know what my uptimes are

[calm aurora]

sometime it's just point economy

[last marsh]

yeah same

[charred bronze]

rampage screen border is very clear thanks

[calm aurora]

there is

[manic wolf]

Chem Dep if you wanna maximize Rampage uptime and have more high damage peaks, Adrenaline if you want a consistent baseline damage buff thats effectively always on which gives you less bursty moments, but more concistency

[calm aurora]

BuffStackHUD

[charred bronze]

I figured. what name?

thanks

[last marsh]

thank you thats actually very helpful

[hearty mango]

I feel like rampage comes back fast enough that you don't need dependency

[last marsh]

same

[grand jewel]

what gives chem dep higher damage peaks than adren?

[hearty mango]

I use rampage basically exclusively it's so good

[charred bronze]

more rampage

[manic wolf]

Because you have Rampage up more often, so its peaking damage boosts

But lower baseline damage

[grand jewel]

[random shuttle]

also with chem dep I can reach 80%+ Crit

I regularly finish missions with overall crit rate of outrageouys 70~%

[calm aurora]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/470

[random shuttle]

that's stupid high

[manic wolf]

Yer, thats pretty good going

Thats with Riposte on weapon and the dodgecrit skill with Dep' ye?

[random shuttle]

yeah and the node+crit aura

I have so high a crit rate that the Bleed+Chem dots are almost ingrained into light spam

can light spam a guy and he is at max bleed and like 7-8 chem stacks

that's more than enough to melt anything

[manic wolf]

Ye, DoT builds are godly on Scummer for sure

[random shuttle]

not to mention bosses are fucked

[manic wolf]

Quite fun to play also

[grand jewel]

I do so much damage with rampage and adren that everything sub a crusher dies nearly instantly

[random shuttle]

Toss 3 knifes at a boss, slam a few attacks, max chem stacks + bleed stacks

get fucked bozo 😄

[grand jewel]

goofy ass shivs

[limber cradle]

Is there any reason to run the .45s over the needle pistol on a melee build outside of "I like them"

[manic wolf]

Given you're kinda going all on DoTs at that point, you could probably bring the fire shotgun an just dump special burny shells into stuff too for even more DoT stacking shennanigans 😄

[random shuttle]

no

I like them is the only real reason 😄

[limber cradle]

Didn't think so

Thanks

[random shuttle]

this is my op secret sauce in Mortis

go DOt shivs

[manic wolf]

Stubs are just more fun to play than most guns tbf

[random shuttle]

• Fire spec in Mortis

stack bleed, chem and burn at every attack

[sturdy linden]

had someone in here earlier saying Hive Scum has the slowest boss ttk

[manic wolf]

Makes sense ye, probably pretty stronk with all the mad modifiers lmao

[dim moth]

no def arbites imo

[manic wolf]

Actually? Waow

[dim moth]

arbites is the only class that has no real way to burst down a boss

[calm aurora]

hu

[dim moth]

they have pretty okay overall damage

[manic wolf]

Not that it matters much for Arb because you can just tank everything the boss does 😄

[random shuttle]

Right that is why last monster spec game I killed 9 bosses and had 650 000 boss dmg

[dim moth]

but they don't have the burst options everyone else gets

[amber sundial]

Hivescum has lowest boss TTK because it’s the hardest for them to ledge bosses

[calm aurora]

btl + bolter

[sturdy linden]

see for yourself: #hivescum-class message

[lapis raft]

3 arbites + 1 scum team, i think im getting arrested guys rip

[manic wolf]

Do some bath salts, you'll be fine

[amber sundial]

You gotta sell your drugs at a discounted price trust me it’ll go good

[random shuttle]

I melted a Spawn on Auric so fast once the team was asking me if I am cheating

just so happened I had both Rampage and my Stimm buffs at once...

[sturdy linden]

I usually solo bosses on my tox setups

[dim moth]

yeh

[sturdy linden]

not captains though

because stupid shield

[dim moth]

it's so fucking easy to kill bosses on tox builds xd

really fast too

[last marsh]

let me preface this by saying

thank you modder

[random shuttle]

And I don't even play with Needle Gun

[last marsh]

but why the fuck dont you have a 'all off' or 'all on' button

[amber sundial]

The evil 10% dmg ADM

[last marsh]

am i blind........

[random shuttle]

Aka "I can kill anything lmao" gun

[dim moth]

gun scum prob has the worst damage into bosses out of the bunch

which feels weird considering gun

[sturdy linden]

shrimply empty one Needle gun clip, follow through with your boxcutters / saw, and then just dodge/block while they sizzle

[amber sundial]

what guns Hive scum got access to that are auto again?

[random shuttle]

IAGs

DAP

[calm aurora]

autoguns

[random shuttle]

Shredder

[amber sundial]

How’s shredder compared to DAP?

[random shuttle]

Some people love it

I don't.

But I also don't like DAP.

[dim moth]

better crit, faster base reload, and worse everything else

[random shuttle]

I am based, right, wise and correct chadly IAG Vraks user.

[trim wind]

Dap puts out more dmg

[sturdy linden]

an h40 player here swore by it because you can ditch Speedload and pick up Cavalcade instead and have much higher Vulture uptime. I personally didn't like it at all, ttks are noticeably worse

[random shuttle]

I do like Shredder in ONE particular scenario

well two

Mutie Mob

and Dreg Ragers mob 😄

Since Shredder ADM into Maniacs is still something stupid high

[amber sundial]

Scab rager mob

[random shuttle]

You mean "a light meal for my zooka"

[sturdy linden]

Shredder does have some pretty insane stagger for such a tiny gun

[frigid sluice]

If I’m running a right side build for the penance should I use all my viscosity in the stim lab to get multiple penances done or just go down one lane to spam crate more often

[random shuttle]

THAT'S A BOOMIN

[sturdy linden]

100% visc, Sample Collector OP

[amber sundial]

Sample collector + booby trap gives you quite a lot if it explodes into a horde

[random shuttle]

I love Zooka

[frigid sluice]

I don’t remember talent names is that the one where you get cdr for killing enemies

[random shuttle]

Chem Nades are no longer my best friend

[sturdy linden]

ya

[amber sundial]

Stim CDR

[random shuttle]

Zooka now is my best friend.

[sturdy linden]

#hivescum-class message

[frigid sluice]

And it works with the other talent that instantly makes crate ready to use when stim goes off cd right

Rad thanks

[random shuttle]

I am a simple man

I see Zooka killstreak in the corner going into 10+

I smile.

[sturdy linden]

zooka = 4 chances to trivialize an otherwise fucked situation

[amber sundial]

can’t wait for hivescum to do a renedezook against a heretic stormrapter at some point

[dim moth]

ogryn nuke moment

[random shuttle]

Wow

[stark otter]

What does a slayer/rampager ganger do better than zealot of footknight arb

[random shuttle]

Wow

I never thought of that

[stark otter]

Just seems like they die easy and are less mobile

[random shuttle]

I usually just unpack my entire load on first 3-4 mobs

just for the rush

[random shuttle]

Damage.

[dim moth]

kill literally everything faster

the answer with "what does scum do better than (insert thing here)" is that they do better damage

[random shuttle]

Hive Scum is a true champ when it comes to Murder per Minute Factor.

[dim moth]

Or in the case of support scum on the right side they have the strongest team damage boost in the game, and also corruption immunity so that melee players can play the game when Blight Spreads is active in havoc

Effectively just being an upgrade to zealot in that regard

[stark otter]

I barely notice tbh

[amber sundial]

The corruption immunity is pretty nice for your clueless teammates who can’t push bursters

[stark otter]

I use the chain axe and it just feels super slow to kill eveything

Whereas I can kill crushers pretty easily with the relic blade

[random shuttle]

Chain Axe is a slower weapon.

[dim moth]

this chain axe?

[sturdy linden]

Rampage/Adrenaline Chaxe is pretty good idk. But you can use almost any melee weapon you enjoy. Shivs are great, Rashad is busted

[stark otter]

What's the Rashad?

[livid raven]

combat axe

[stark otter]

Oh right I used that at first but odk

Doesn't feel like a 40k weapon y'know?

A slayer would probably use a chainaxe if they were in 40k

[limber cradle]

Theres a simple joy in using an axe to me

[livid raven]

you are overestimating the tech level of the empire

an hivescum would definitely prefer a normal axe

[stark otter]

What mark?

[foggy phoenix]

Using the hive scum class, I've unlocked all the funni pieces of the havoc armor set.

[lapis raft]

ngl why is pocket toxin even a node, doesnt work for rpg, for chem nade its useless so its literally just for blackout, i dont get why its a node

[amber sundial]

Can’t wait for 5 years later when hive scum and arbite get havoc and penance set

[zenith pagoda]

Is vet powersword considered the best melee weapon in the game?

[livid raven]

it works for rpg

[lapis raft]

i just tried it it didnt

[zealous ravine]

blackout moments and aura

[dim moth]

man what the fuck

[lapis raft]

i will try direct hit i guess

[rare stirrup]

Dueling sword jumpscare

[dim moth]

whacking away with the horde clear lights of the Mk XII chaxe and they do over a thousand into carapace?

[bronze glade]

it does and basedo n ryken's testing, it's important for reaching h40 crusher breakpoint

[rare stirrup]

But both are very good

[foggy phoenix]

There is an extremely rare usecase for toxin with the launcher- h40 rotten armor crushers.

[bronze glade]

tbf max stacks of HT/slaught with rampage and adren on

will do funny things for any melee

[random shuttle]

[lapis raft]

oh now it works when i clicked and unclicked it again wtf

[stark otter]

I wish there were dual axes tbh

[bronze glade]

same

my dreg rager cosplay isn't quite the same using dual shivs

[foggy phoenix]

Surprised we don't have buzzsaw axes ngl

[dim moth]

man

[bronze glade]

rampage adren will always be the peak HIV combo for me

desp is overrated af

[versed spruce]

One rev??

Actually yeah it hits one shots on vet with just thrust too so I'm not that surprised

[lunar hamlet]

Hey can someone help me get to max level please

[foggy phoenix]

I can do something with similar times with just Tac Axe light spam and around 60-70% crit rate without having to use rampage.

[radiant swift]

tac axe gaming

[dim moth]

those were MK XII's light attacks 💀

[foggy phoenix]

Granted, you will need to land every hit you're going to be wildly swinging with left click spam

[random shuttle]

yeah love the taxe, too

[stark otter]

My guy btw

[random shuttle]

but the general idea to sell here is

Scum does dmg okay

[radiant swift]

get the mod "keep swinging" if you are gonna tac axe, you'll appreciate it later i nlife

[stark otter]

Minus the torso now as I traded it for the thieves one

[random shuttle]

don't believe anyone who say he doesn't XD

If Scum can do ONE thing

is deal damage

[stark otter]

Tbh just him being shirtless with the heavy axe seems a bit TOO unremarkable

[versed spruce]

I rescind my statement

[stark otter]

Whereas the chain axe feels a bit more 40k

[versed spruce]

wtf

[foggy phoenix]

No need for team utility when the best crowd control is death

[random shuttle]

my beautiful taxe

[foggy phoenix]

I only ever bring the stimm supply build with the Blight Spreads modifier

And even then, the stimm buffs are absolute garbage

Ideally, you'd have a zealot with the purity aura

[mighty belfry]

I beg your pardon

[foggy phoenix]

But you play with what you get with the party finder

[mighty belfry]

Stimm supply buffs are actually great lol

[young herald]

this is brilliant, but I like this

[mighty belfry]

You can straight up make a pseudo rampage with stimm supply that affects your whole team. That is nothing to scoff at.

[foggy phoenix]

I purposely give the cartel stimm for my stimm supply build low viscosity for fast CD. Which also means faster medcrate returns.

[novel oracle]

With significantly less uptime and longer downtime

[foggy phoenix]

The buffs themselves are shit. The stimm supply only exists to give corruption clear and immunity, and maybe apply toxins

[mighty belfry]

Needle pistol be like.

[last marsh]

im playing adrenaline surge scum with heavy sword

[trim wind]

I mean with sample collector crate is like 20 seconds maybe

[last marsh]

how important is attack speed for heavy sword?

[dim moth]

huh

[mighty belfry]

Like it is seriously not that long when you're using the needle pistol proper since sample collector is way stronger that way.

[young herald]

attack speed is important on everything

[radiant swift]

not really specifically important but attack speed is always good

[last marsh]

i ask because im wondering how much stam should i go for scum melee builds

rn i just have 2 stam curios

[foggy phoenix]

I only ever use attack speed stimms with my toxin TAxe build

[young herald]

i run 1 stam curio and, depending on the weapon, stam on the weapon

[foggy phoenix]

So I can left click with crits even harder

[dim moth]

so like hang on

[last marsh]

because of this

[mighty belfry]

I run full viscosity stims and rarely take that much time to get my supply back

[tropic crag]

taxe and attack speed are like... best buds for life

[dim moth]

you think up to 100% cooldown regen for the entire team

[young herald]

don't remember if heavy sword has breakpoints you need multiple damage perks for

[limber cradle]

My favorite stimm set up in this entire game rn

[dim moth]

20% strength +15% rending/crit or 35% finesse

[tender marten]

Swift stacks up to 30 times so that's the amount of stamina you want

[last marsh]

no cool down reduc?

[dim moth]

up to 20% attack speed and stun immunity

are bad buffs?

[limber cradle]

I said favorite not best

[last marsh]

i didnt ask if it was the best

i was just curious on why no cooldown reduc

[tropic crag]

honestly i don't think the cd reduction is ever needed

[limber cradle]

Because its boring?

[young herald]

cdr is boring

[tropic crag]

its like overkill on most builds

[young herald]

buffs are fun

[limber cradle]

Because I want to go fast and kill better

[mighty belfry]

Like in practice, if sample collector did not exist, then I'd get the concern but, it does.

[young herald]

but yeah, cdr is the best

[tropic crag]

attack speed specifically is really fun

[last marsh]

lol okay

[limber cradle]

Fervor is straight up my favorite stimm perk

[foggy phoenix]

When that stimm supply crate is the only source of corruption clear for your entire team, you want its CD coinciding with your stimm ASAP so your team doesn't lose all HP sitting on the yellow piss enemies explode into in tight corridors

[limber cradle]

I love going fast and dodgemaxxing

[tropic crag]

i take spur v on my setup when i take attack speed

[limber cradle]

I like Spur too fwiw

[dim moth]

the SPEED

[limber cradle]

I think spur lets you run straight into flamers if you want to

[last marsh]

though i think id enjoy having stun immunity

[mighty belfry]

Sample collector is there for a reason.

[last marsh]

stun immunity covers being knocked out of heavies, right? tho i think....

[dim moth]

Fervor is particularly funny because all 3 of the buffs it gives to dodges stack with eachother

[last marsh]

let me check

[dim moth]

To make your dodges absurdly fast

[tropic crag]

among other things yeah, tho if you do it at the wrong time you will just insta roast

[limber cradle]

And you be fuckin moving

[last marsh]

oh yeah rampage does st un immune anyway

[foggy phoenix]

Read my sentence again. Understand the context.

[dim moth]

I mean yeah we get the context it's just you're seriously underestimating sample collector on a right side tox build

[novel oracle]

Im gonna give a massive hot take
If/when chem dep is converted into stim regen
Sample collector needs to be moved to a more accessible spot and changed into 50-100% stim cdr for 3s on elite/special kill

[limber cradle]

I hate that you either have to take a coherency talent or spend like 3 points to get sample collector

[tropic crag]

hotter take, sample collector is already overkill because the base kit without the cooldown doesn't have that much down time where a button can't be pressed

[dim moth]

diagonals

[mighty belfry]

No I do understand. Understand that if you kill more, CDR does not matter if you're actually going for the crate. CDR is a good choice for the team admittedly but it doesn't do that much for stimm supply itself in the grand scheme of things

[tropic crag]

but also that would probably be fine

[limber cradle]

I know but I'm not pathing into +1 blitz without taking tox nades too

[novel oracle]

With my suggestion the max potential of cooldown would be inherently capped

[dim moth]

rocket...

[last marsh]

i do love 4 rockets

[limber cradle]

I still want it because I want a war crime rocket because that concept amuses me.

[mighty belfry]

If sample collector didn't exist, completely different story. And with higher density, that synergy only gets better.

[novel oracle]

Sample collector is too all or nothing depending on the build and situation and its the only thing in the tree that can do it which is weird

[dim moth]

yeah give us more stimm related perks on the right side

[random shuttle]

NGL

TBH

[dim moth]

I NEED more stimming

stimmulation

[random shuttle]

I am super surprised more people aren't using this Stimm upgrade

[limber cradle]

At risk of lighting this channel on fire do you know of any proposed Desp/Pickp/Vultures changes that might go through?

[tropic crag]

i think theres too much cdr in general in the kit... but like... i'm also not mad at it i just think the kits mostly work fine without it outside of the few builds whose gimmick revolves around the cdr

[limber cradle]

Someone is gonna believe this man

[manic wolf]

Whos the plug what sells that one?

[last marsh]

based

[foggy phoenix]

I don't see value with the team buffs itself. The crate is just a means of giving temporary corruption immunity.
Low viscosity does mean shit buffs, but significantly more uptime + more toxin bombs. This can be handy if there's no zealot.
High viscosity stimm supply gives you substantial buffs, but is unreliable as a means of fighting on corrupted ground with limited space. I would not consider this to be a reliable means of corruption protection unless there's already a zealot with a purity aura.

[tropic crag]

how are we supposed to understand what obtuse tool tips like this mean?!? FS man

[mighty belfry]

I honestly don't recommend it much on rampage or desperado builds since the stimm cooldown doesn't actually matter until the stimm effect is over.

[foggy phoenix]

The stimm supply is just a bomb with corruption clear attached to it in my eyes.

[random shuttle]

Oh sorry, I heard FS dropped a Hotfix to address that:

[dim moth]

the literal best offensive buffs in the game

[mighty belfry]

The corruption protection, comes with just killing more really. And killing more means sample collector procs more. Sample collector procing more means you get crate back faster.

[tropic crag]

wow you are right why aren't people taking that?!?!

[foggy phoenix]

I'd rather have crates immediately back to back than suffer downtime.

[mighty belfry]

It's a cycle that gets better and better as enemy density goes up.

[dim moth]

it's like maybe 10 seconds of downtime

or zero

depends

[tropic crag]

i like when someone else on my team runs stim box, me running it not so much

[foggy phoenix]

^

[versed spruce]

I'm not a fan of crutch talents

[dim moth]

I like when I'M running stimm box

[foggy phoenix]

At least you can shamelessly get depency on friendly stimm crates for chem depency

[dim moth]

since it means I get to have absurdly high uptime on my 100% viscosity stim

100% crit chance forever

[tropic crag]

i just like hitting things good and its a miracle i've learned to press a new key to use the stim at all. so in my hands the uptime is going waaaay down

[foggy phoenix]

I'm just glad the cartel special is a single button press

[versed spruce]

So on a box build do you just never self-inject your stim

[dim moth]

yeah obv

[foggy phoenix]

And not a "wield then jab"

[dim moth]

box lasts longer, and immediately puts stimm on cooldown