hivescum-class

[obsidian crown]

Convenient

[tender marten]

Scoreboard, more like snoreboard.

[wet heath]

Not everyone runs the same shit you weirdo

[manic wolf]

Yeah, some small knockdowns like ranged immunity being DR, Chem damage scaling back a little on high stacks and Vulture's dodge being axed and the class is in a real good spot. Thats much less work than they had to do with Arb

[tender forge]

My scoreboard is in my head

[limber cradle]

Tbf man not everyone runs scoreboard

[wet heath]

not everyone is chasing for stats

[tropic crag]

most people don't actually understand what the differences in the numbers on the scoreboard even apply.... since most stats of that nature or more outlines of what they mean than literal

[tender forge]

And I always have the green circles

[tender marten]

I tally all my damage in my head.

[limber cradle]

There is infact a reason this game doesn't have one

[tender marten]

And it's always over 9,999,999.

[obsidian crown]

I know a few people who got hard carried in havocs so that’s why I take what they say with a grain of salt. Anyways, moving on

[tropic crag]

less work but i think the broken nodes and mechanics are just, a bit more broken

[tender marten]

I'm not very good at math.

[wet heath]

Scoreboard is not even accurate for all I know, I used it long time ago and me and my friend figured out stats are different between players

[trim wind]

https://tenor.com/view/dewey-cox-walk-hard-sounds-expensive-gif-15302858

[manic wolf]

Oh yeah no for sure, they definately went wildly overboard with the extreme ends of some setups

[tropic crag]

having a samwise to carry you to mount mordor is a life skill so i won't knock it

[obsidian crown]

Calm down

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-its-over9000-gif-14419267

[tender marten]

No.

[obsidian crown]

That’s different. But Sam was my mvp in LOTR

[tender marten]

Is Vultures Push actually good.

[manic wolf]

No idea

[obsidian crown]

Cole said it’s bad but no idea

[bronze glade]

It's ultra light stagger

[tender marten]

I find no inclination to take it.

[bronze glade]

Maybe needle alt fire levels

[limber cradle]

Tbh I don't notice it

I tried running it in a few games

But I'd rather throw blinders at my feet if I'm that fucked

[obsidian crown]

Not wrong

[amber sundial]

Even kulis guide says it’s shit iirc

[tropic crag]

lol i think i just like being carried tbh, like can i clutch? yes. can i carry? yes (unless i haven't played in like 2 months or something). But i want to have fun and just kind of doddle and have some fun scraps so i'll let worse players carry me if i notice them trying hard

[rose flax]

I'm pretty sure speed load does not stack with speed loader, both work, but neither add to each other, in fact it looks like it is based off speed loader, even though speed load is giving 45% less with 5 stacks(tier 3) and this is on the double barrel shotgun(with 2.78 second reload). using mod to show reload time
Maybe I'm wrong, though and reload speed just maxes out at a certain percentage, here's some footage, if anyone wants to see for themselves

[tender marten]

Kuli never puts opinions in his guide.

That's why he's the goat

[tender marten]

lmao

[tropic crag]

my guess is that you're hitting a speed cap but i could very well be wrong on that guess

[tender marten]

'barely anything'

its also like

why have a conditional on-kill stagger

when you can have a conditional on-crit immunity

why would you ever run both

what even is going on

i need more drugs

[amber sundial]

honestly vultures push couldve just been made the one mortis trial node for ranged hits stagger but like on crit only or smth

[keen timber]

When in doubt…

[manic wolf]

Most of us kinda knew that was gonna be a dead node upon reading it without even needing to test it lol

[tropic crag]

playstyle difference honestly... to me that reads like a node they put in for vermintide oldheads that play darktide funny

[amber sundial]

or like every 4th bullet staggers

[limber cradle]

Literally who skull reacted the concept of throwing a blinder at your feet if you get surrounded

[keen timber]

It just doesn’t seem like it’d be useful anyway tbh

[tender marten]

i mean it couldve been massive right

[bronze glade]

Spitting facts

[tender marten]

imagine if it was a 5m radius and it threw crushers around

[keen timber]

I’d rather not knock things over and continue unloading into their face

[tender marten]

instead its somehow worse than Master's Retribution

[limber cradle]

New buff, they make it VoC

[keen timber]

With extra toughness and team res included

[manic wolf]

If it was a full flooring of Crushers and Bulwarks, yeah it would be super good, but we know FS isnt going to give that effect on a re-triggerable perk with no cooldown

[limber cradle]

You get it, weak class needs it

[amber sundial]

when can we get a keystone that is just gesture from RoR2 so we get VoC with reduced cooldown and activates the second its ready

[tropic crag]

knocking them over instead of going for the kill can often result in team taking less damage... damage skills are for playing normally, cc skills help carry games tbh

i'm not saying its actually good tho

just that it can be used to effect

[manic wolf]

CC is super important for sure, yeah

[amber sundial]

dont worry it prevents trash mobs from thinking about slapping you for .1 seconds

[manic wolf]

Thats why Blinders are so good

[amber sundial]

its goated CC fr fr

[manic wolf]

Lule

Though on the CC note, Smite doesnt win matches, because it tilts everyone in the lobby and they start playing badly because they're annoyed

[tropic crag]

honestly i don't think i've ever looked at cc and thought "this will stop something from attacking me"... because thats goofy i can dodge... its always always always to protect others when i choose to put it in a loadout

[limber cradle]

I literally stop killing whats smited to go actually play the game

[tropic crag]

its why the rumbler is so good on the oggy as a melee side arm, you can pull it out and knock everything down a foot ball field away while you're protecting a different lil'un where you're standing

[manic wolf]

You need to elevate yourself and start actively trying to kill the Smiter

[tropic crag]

i give all smited enemies a curtesy hit on my way by them

[amber sundial]

i bestow upon the smyker glorianna levels of barrel spawns

[manic wolf]

Gloriana is peak "kill the Smyker" territory

[woeful trellis]

i think CC (or action denial) is the secret sauce to easy havocs, smoke vet turns off all ranged and taunt oggy pulls all melee to them so for the other 3 members of the team it's like being in the psykhanium as long as you kill bombers

[tropic crag]

you don't see that many smykers in auric now adays tho

[tender marten]

vultures dodge maybe should only exist at max stacks or something

[manic wolf]

Don't forget to teabag them a few times as someone else res' them

[manic wolf]

Thankfully lol, but when you do see them...

[lilac ermine]

Trauma psyker can kill 100 ragers and crushers and bulwarks no problem

[tropic crag]

i've been harping on about how good cc is at increasing win rates for almost 10 years now in the different tide communites

because it makes your winrate skyrocket with pubs

[tender forge]

I can see one niche purpose, making poxers move tf out of the way so you can dodge

[limber cradle]

I'm gonna go get the picture again hold on

[tender forge]

But it doesnt really even do that right

[lilac ermine]

If they make mode where enemies cant be cc then damage is better

[manic wolf]

This Oggy got his twatch drops

[charred bronze]

CC is optimal if you can trust your team to get the job done, without question.

[tropic crag]

ideally you always want a healthy mix of both but i think alot of people go waaay to light on cc because they undervalue it

[tender forge]

Footknight chads unite

(I go dwarf hunting now though)

[tropic crag]

crunch/great hammer slayer, so the guy fighting next to the FK

[charred bronze]

I'd definitely be more inclined to blackouts in havoc with a full team on voice.

In pugs, I somewhat disagree. The number of times I've used chant on zealot only to have my team dick around for the entire duration is what caused me to stop using it

[manic wolf]

Imo if everyone can do damage, but has the ability to CC on demand, thats better than one person not having DPS, but going all in on CC

[tropic crag]

but its not the fastest, cc is a tool we use to protect eachother, damage is the cc we use to protect ourselves

[tender forge]

I see blackouts as emergency chem toxin

[tame fox]

this desperado build i got rolling is so good for havoc, almost 30 and melting it all.

[charred bronze]

I'd consider using them in a despo-chem build

[lilac ermine]

Some ppl have cc on demand but resource limited

[tropic crag]

lol sometimes i dump 3 nades on crusher swarms if i haven't needed all my blackouts

[tender forge]

I run a mostly tox build rn and it works fine

[lilac ermine]

Like vet only has grenades

[limber cradle]

Where are you guys finding havoc randoms that aren't sandbagging your games blowing you up with poxbursters

[tame fox]

luck tbh

[wet heath]

Scum has unlimited resources and nades* but lacks survivability for the most part and maybe armor damage

[tropic crag]

and the shout, but yeah thats mostly it... and a couple weapons are cc heavy but not really

[tender forge]

I feel like fs stealth changed the blackout regens now to make it more consistent

[tropic crag]

i can not overstate how tanky melee toxin scum is

[lilac ermine]

Alot of gud vets dont even run shout anymore 😔

[limber cradle]

I am showing my friend Gundam Thunderbolt today, your pfp tells me you'll appreciate that.

[wet heath]

He is

[woeful trellis]

party finder! my experience is that most people queuing for 40s know how to play the game, i'm usually the worst player in my lobbies but taunt shield oggy is so forgiving it works out

[reef flower]

Roadman

[charred bronze]

I get blowed up everywhere. I don't pug havocs and don't have enough friends who are willing to play DT to do it, but the game has been ROUGH the last couple days, even in Auric

[tropic crag]

kind of glad, makes me feel more special when i run my shovel only vet build

[reef flower]

Ogryn got the shiesty on

[limber cradle]

I might not always been the best person in the havoc lobby but I am normally the last man standing assuming I haven't been murdered by my team.

[charred bronze]

normally the FAFO is damnation and below

[limber cradle]

Auric lately is absolute hell ime

[wet heath]

I feel like whoever is constantly sitting at 40s are the most elitist toxic players there are

[tropic crag]

i've had some good luck pubbing havoks, most of the time i've lost with pubs we try again and win once or twice after that

[woeful trellis]

constantly sitting at 40s? once you hit 40 you stay there unless you get the inactivity derank tho

[charred bronze]

it's not even new players. Folks with 100+ truelevels

[mighty belfry]

They're either some of the nicest players or some of the most toxic players

[wet heath]

if you are not playing by their meta you are literally worth less than a poxwalker

[woeful trellis]

it's people who're still trying to climb that worry about winrate, usually once i hit 40 i start accepting anyone 25 and up because there's no longer anything to lose

[tropic crag]

most of them are gonna be cool folks, once you get really good at this game you kind of stop caring how other people are doing because it doesn't make your game expirience that much worse ever

[woeful trellis]

the 30 to 35 lobbies are the sweatiest in my experience

[wet heath]

True

[mighty belfry]

I had a clearance 40 player try to get into my 30 as a hive scum but because there were already two scum, I declined. They requested as another class just to get mad that I didn't accept their scum

[wet heath]

I got everything I wanted from havoc so now I just play it for diamantine

[tender marten]

I play it for the pleasure of pain.

[charred bronze]

well, if you aren't playing optimally, you're dragging their game down. Top echelons of every activity are the same. They're not there to babysit someone making the 'fun' choice.

It's why the game shouldn't be balanced around havoc, though it'd be nice if all classes had at least one havoc viable spec

[wet heath]

If you can make it work it will work

[tropic crag]

people getting mad over rejections is crazy, i just swipe right on alot of parties and hope they like my profile pics and swipe back

[novel oracle]

They all do tho

[tropic crag]

i make sure my bois are handsome

[charred bronze]

and given that you aren't running scoreboard to track your own performance, you have no idea how a given build stacks up. Sorry, but not on your side on this one

[mighty belfry]

Like, you can 4 stack scum in your own 40s my dude but as long as demotion exists, I cannot gamble on three hive scum in havoc when I'm actually trying to rank up. Specifically with randoms

[limber cradle]

I genuinely do not give a fuck what you're running if you're competent with it, personally.

[charred bronze]

I despise game toxicity, but entitlement happens at all levels of play

[signal nebula]

As a fellow PUGer, fair

[lilac ermine]

If I get more lvl when will ppl start accepting me

[tropic crag]

over the years i've come to love baby sitting clearly new players through things, i feel like a dad picking his kid up after a spill and watching him run off to run into a tree and start crying or something

[signal nebula]

100% fair

[mighty belfry]

I wish I didn't have to do that but deranking forces it basically

[signal nebula]

Yep, I hate it too

[wet heath]

I wish game still had this roleplaying bit in it from release days

[calm aurora]

Fuck derank

[signal nebula]

If de rank didn't exist I wouldn't give a fuck

[wet heath]

People were actually talking in chat

[charred bronze]

Oh ABSOLUTELY. I love being the one to carry a run and help new players.

But it's rude imo to show up to high difficulty or high level play and expect others to take up your slack

[leaden fable]

Right? I went through a few toxic 40 lobbies and then got into a 40 as a 30 clearance, host just says "hello friends" and proceeds to hard carry as melee psyker doing nearly 3m damage and clutching

[tropic crag]

yeah i get you

[calm aurora]

Unsanctionnedpsyker? 😄

[tropic crag]

the jolly ones are jolly because they like to scrap, tends to lead to being good in a scrap

[lilac ermine]

Is it wrong to say that some ppl run builds that cause them to clutch more and the build is good for clutching

[alpine hazel]

Is charged strikes still good, it was pretty good with the bug but they patched it

[leaden fable]

"temu zealot" was his name, goes by bruh moment in here I think

[calm aurora]

oh bruh

[tender marten]

Nein

[tropic crag]

naw, i've seen far to many people basically "only clutch"... like they don't know how to play normally and will play like their clutching at all times which just gets people killed

[calm aurora]

@plucky nymph ?

[leaden fable]

Bruh is definitely cracked with fgs

[charred bronze]

cause them to clutch more? What do you mean?

[manic wolf]

Wowwwwww

[woeful trellis]

this is what i (probably unfairly) call the "handmaiden issue", cuz handmaiden in vt2 is super good at surviving/clutching/rezzing allies but doesn't have the best tools to frontline or relieve pressure; to put it another way, the build is good at handling bad situations, but not good at keeping situations from going bad

[manic wolf]

Just joined a turbo aids game

[tropic crag]

kiting builds basically, the old elf problem

[manic wolf]

Literally pushed a Burster and it exploded in my face.

[limber cradle]

Calling homie out like that

[charred bronze]

oooh

[calm aurora]

I am like that

[wet heath]

Is difficulty even actually increasing after 30 something?

[lilac ermine]

Like a zealot using revolver and knife who is good at surviving but rlly dont help clear any shooters or specials much and causes rest of team to die so they can clutch up

[leaden fable]

Not sure exactly which but I did find one of them posted a clip of that character so I know he's lurking somewhere lol

[lilac ermine]

Or a hive scum using knife and needler

[tropic crag]

if you squint you can see it

[zinc heath]

Is there a way to turn down the gun noise ? getting caught by trapper in desperatdo because dual pistol noise is too loud lol

[calm aurora]

When he wakes up he'll have a nice thing to read

[manic wolf]

Substantially

[wet heath]

I thought 40 was ultimate skills test but it wasn't all that different from say 31

[woeful hill]

mods

[tropic crag]

i feel like if you can handle 30s you can handle 40 is the main thing, they do get harder but theres no more hard skill check walls

[wet heath]

You can use spidey sense if you have troubles with sound ques

[manic wolf]

30-35 is like Auric Maelstrom with added modifers, beyond that it gets harder. But most of the difficulty isnt down to enemy counts, its down to how bogus the modifiers are

[leaden fable]

Yep that's him for sure

[charred bronze]

one thing I've noticed is that non-despo scum builds tend to deal poorly with specials. I think that's one thing affecting the class as a whole.

[tropic crag]

eventually you become so attuned to some of those sound queues that someone could play one from a speaker down the block and you'd dodge the net in real life

[wet heath]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/268

[charred bronze]

and autos struggle with snipers at a long enough distance

[leaden fable]

He did revive me first so hopefully he doesn't think I'm too much of a shitter lmao

[calm aurora]

true

[zinc heath]

hmm guess i will just use that spidey sense then lol

[tropic crag]

yeah this is why i think theres no more true skill walls past a point in the 30s, because you've proved you can do it you just gotta do it a bit more

[lilac ermine]

Isnt spidey sense a cheat mod

[charred bronze]

at a certain level of play spidey sense is just too much noise to signal, I find. It's helpful when sound cues are borked, but not a panacea

[manic wolf]

I dont think there are many skill-walls beyond Auric personally, its just how is your tolerance for bullshit. If its higher? Keep going, if its not, then quit

[calm aurora]

I am honestly 2s faster than most of the lobbies I play with to spot specials, event without spidey sense

[tropic crag]

no its an accessibility mod at its core... its actually slower to react to spideysense because you react faster off of sound than visuals

[wet heath]

It's been there since 2023 and even had drama around it. I think even devs said it's fine because it's more of an accessibility mod than outright cheat

[manic wolf]

I told FS when I playtested Havoc that rando modifiers are an ass way of increasing "difficulty"

[charred bronze]

honestly, it doesn't do anything that you can't do with your ears. I often play with one headphone on so I can hear what's going on in the house so I use it sometimes

[zinc heath]

hmm yea mod said Useful for the HoH/Deaf

soo it is kinda an accessbility option

[tropic crag]

you're pretty right from my experience but i've seen people hit hard walls on that climb so i assume i have just played tide games for too long

[lilac ermine]

I thought it can see enemies through doors who dont play a sound yet

[zinc heath]

plus well i can usually dodge most stuffs, it is just that the auto pistol noise is too loud which is making it hard to hear the trapper/net firing

[charred bronze]

and Spidey Sense has NOT saved me from insta spawn, insta pop/pounce bursters and dogs

[tropic crag]

i get the design approach tbh... they probably can't keep pushing enemy count as h40 already breaks the game so they need to nerf the player or buff the enemy and both can feel bad if done too much

[spiral horizon]

It's an accessibility mod but is arguably "cheaty" in the sense that it goes perhaps too far and people who don't actually need the mod are using it to gain a perceived advantage

mind you this is why FS should have their own baked in accessibility options so then modders don't have to worry about it

[tropic crag]

not saying its perfect but i think i get the line of thinking

[lilac ermine]

I mean it should be for deaf ppl but

[pallid quail]

it would be better if they just fixed the silent specials spawning behind you

[lilac ermine]

Like I think majority of ppl using are not deaf rlly

[tropic crag]

i would think they could tie the sound queues into a visual system but idk the actual under the hood stuff of that (probably crazy) setup

[calm aurora]

as long as there's no accessibility option, spidey is fair game period

[charred bronze]

this, and the 'sound cue/instant fire' that's been happening lately

I think it's a server thing

but it's fucking garbage

[pallid quail]

its been getting worse for a long time

[leaden fable]

True, if they can add smyker for the blind they should accommodate the deaf as well

[lilac ermine]

What is smyker

[leaden fable]

Smite psyker

[charred bronze]

and like I said, if Spidey was that good it would save you from that nonsense, but it simply doesn't

[tropic crag]

yeah i can't get mad at it for that reason, DT is so sound based i can't feel another way about it really

[pallid quail]

specials in general (bursters in particular) got a fat buff when they reworked a bunch of maps about a year ago

[amber sundial]

psyker who has smite equipped and uses it as their main weapon instead of as a CC tool

[lilac ermine]

Smite psyker has gone extinct

[pallid quail]

and as of a few months ago i noticed that specials will hit you with the one frame kick far more often

[calm aurora]

like someone said before, at some lvl of difficulty it is more noise than info

[pallid quail]

and they just spam it and it has absurd range

[tropic crag]

it brings a tear to my eye when i see a psyker smite for a short time then rush in beside me in melee

[charred bronze]

I think the simple reason for that is flamestaff psyker does basically the same level of CC AND kills the targets faster

[heady jungle]

I actually got downed not long ago by a sniper kicking me. I was out of ammo so my only choice was melee but that bish just wouldn’t quit. Couldn’t even block it because it kept knocking me back

Skill issue on my part

[lilac ermine]

I see those alot it looks easy to play

[heady jungle]

But funny

[manic wolf]

Consistency is key tho, up until Auric the difficulty is relatively linear, however when you get into Havoc, the difficulty doesnt spike with level, its spikes with how many bullshit modifiers get slapped on that particular season. Idk if you played Borderlands 3, but that game was one where they tried to shoehorn in goofy modifiers to make the game harder and the community at large despised it because it only served to further remove an already limited pool of viable builds and options from playability. Way I see it Havoc does the same thing. Its not about skill expression. Its about bringing the most broken stuff the game offers to beat equally broken modifiers. Thats just not fun, hence why Havoc is often reffered to as a "meme mode"

[charred bronze]

takes some understanding of the class mechanics, but it's not hard per se

[leaden fable]

They have yet to adapt to their natural predator, the barrel

[calm aurora]

smykers became voltaic arbites

[tropic crag]

yeah i get you, they def didn't stick the landing for the wide audience (or even the narrow audience lol). I think they could retool it but also i'd rather they just keep it the same and add a more true chaos wastes style of mode if they're gonna do that much work

[plucky nymph]

@calm aurora wattup gangsta

[calm aurora]

you got a nice call out

[plucky nymph]

Oh yea I just read xD hey didu try that build

@leaden fable wattup G

[clear steppe]

For achievements is Cartel Special just the stim supply?

[echo python]

It's the special stimm

[manic wolf]

Honestly I would say it needs a relatively ground up rework where there is less HP and toughness, with increased enemy counts (relative to what the game and servers can handle) and the removal of most modifiers that are blatantly anti-player.

[clear steppe]

Just your normal stimm you have that regenerates?

[manic wolf]

It also needs a mission board with the standard way of joining games, not the party finder

Its own mission board, preferably

[tropic crag]

like a simple "group people within this rank together" match maker would be super nice for me tbh

[rose flax]

I think I'm correct on the whole it using speed loader instead, since left picture is with 5 stacks of speed load and speed loader talent, and is(aproximately)1.57 seconds reload,
While right is just speed load blessing with 5 stacks, and is(aproximately)1.32 seconds reload
It might not even be a stack limit and more the fact that speed loader overwrites the blessing

[keen timber]

i havent actually tried havoc yet

[woeful trellis]

it would be real nice if we could change classes in the "ready up" screen with the 1min timer

[bronze glade]

Yes

[keen timber]

I would like to try it, but it seems like a bit of a slog

[tropic crag]

yeah wouldn't even be the 4th time somethings been accidently coded that way

[plucky nymph]

i don’t think that of anyone xD I used to play destiny and I just streamed helping people do missions so its ok if people go down, nothing to feel bad about. Esp in darktide havoc.

Add me and lets play again, i have been hardcore fine tuning a scum build that does everything and il be playin that

[manic wolf]

Its fun for a while, then you realise just how much bullshit is involved and you kinda turn off it very quickly. There is a reason that even the most hardcore players got the drip and titles from it and then stopped playing it

[keen timber]

yeah that's kinda it i think

when i hear about the hyperoptimisation done for havoc it's like

sure you can do it, but is that difficulty not ending up just being restricting

and would the effort spent balancing it not be better spent putting everything on auric level

[woeful trellis]

that assumes fatshark put any effort into balancing

[rose flax]

so speed loader is currently a free talent point, if you have speed load blessing then lol

[tropic crag]

you don't have to hyperoptimise but you do have to try hard if you're goofing around lol

[tropic crag]

or the other way around if you're feeling that way lol

[manic wolf]

Well the difficulty in Havoc is mostly down to modifiers, not the concept of the mode itself. Essentially you're playing a Maelstrom with ever increasing levels of anti-player bullshit slapped on top, which results in groups picking setups that counters whatever bullshit is active that season

If the build you want to run doesnt hard counter those modifiers in some aspect? Not worth playing

[tropic crag]

honestly alot of the negatives don't affect my playstyle as much as other people... but some of them absolutely wreck me

[woeful trellis]

the biggest difference imo is ammo scarcity and breakpoints being harder to hit

edit: as well as increased boss spawns and twins showing up

when i went back to auric it was shocking just how much ammo is on the map

[manic wolf]

Those are the good things about it tbh

[woeful trellis]

it's insane, you can shoot everything and be fine

[tropic crag]

this is why most of them don't affect me lol, i the dummy who says breakpoints are mostly a noob trap and i play all classes like a slayer (so really i'm just bad at the game)

[mighty belfry]

I want to say. Havoc can be fun without all the broken stuff. Reason I felt last session was particularly aggregious is because it really pigeonholed you into picking very specific options for the modifiers available.

[regal halo]

Oh wise drug addicts I beseech thee
What is the dump stat on my dual autopistols
Mobility I assume as usual?

[tropic crag]

yeah the things that wreck me are the dumber ones lol

[keen timber]

collat

[bronze glade]

Yeah though collateral is ok to dump as well

[brittle sierra]

Collat is the dump

[regal halo]

Peak

The gambling has paid off then

[manic wolf]

It can be fun, Im not saying it cant, but thats an all too common event where the modifiers are so out of whack for the rest of the game that you have to take specific stuff for it. Hence why I use the term anti-player

[plucky nymph]

The class has good slide synergy so keeping mobility high to make those sprint slides tiny bit smoother is better than collat for stagger on a gun that cant stagger shit

[manic wolf]

Idk man, I just feel like the mode missed the mark so much vs what it could have been

[tropic crag]

i feel like anti player is a tiny bit strong but i also get why you use it... i think just plain "anti fun" is more apt to the problem with them

[bronze glade]

Collateral is more for pinning fire if you decide to take it

[manic wolf]

I envision it as an Auric+++ mode where everything is harder, but it doesnt pigeon hole you as much

But sadly thats not the reality FS chose to make

[keen timber]

ok one thing that pisses me off too

[tropic crag]

lol compared to weaves, havok is a masterpiece tho

[keen timber]

what does this actually mean, what changes? how does this help me get intgo it when u dont tell me what the modifiers do

[bronze glade]

There really needs to be something between Auric and havoc

[manic wolf]

Is it actually puddles modifier this time? Jfc ¬.¬

[tropic crag]

thats kind of auric mael isn't it?

[keen timber]

i feel like the party finder is pretty poorly explained too

[regal halo]

Dump on Dual Stubs?

While im here

[bronze glade]

Not quite given that maelstroms often feel easier than HITSG

Imo

[keen timber]

collat again i think

[tropic crag]

i just click on numbers near my number and wait for someone to say yes

[regal halo]

Fair nuff

[manic wolf]

Mobility, same as near everything else

[dim moth]

collateral

worthless stat

[manic wolf]

Dont dump collat on a weapon that gets Pinning Fire

[keen timber]

define near? If I'm at 16, is that 20, 23?

[tropic crag]

sometimes, but most of havoks levels also feel easier than auric mael can so its just a mixed bag at the high end

[bronze glade]

Dual stub doesn't really work well with pinning fire

[radiant swift]

depends if it matters or not, on not sure of the stagger bps of the dual stubs

[keen timber]

ur not gonna use pinning on them

[manic wolf]

It does, just dont dump collat lol

[bronze glade]

Yeah that's true but I don't want all the havoc baggage with it. Looking at you party finder

[keen timber]

it doesn't, it takes too many shots

[bronze glade]

But the time it stacks half your mag is gone bro

[tropic crag]

i always kept it within 5 but below 30 its alot easier so you can probably join up to early 20s and no one will care

[manic wolf]

I do because its a strength bonus, not a damage bonus, which effects cleave

[lilac ermine]

Is 60% vs 80% collateral affect autopistols

[tropic crag]

or some won't care i mean

[bronze glade]

I mean maybe if you're using it on desperado

But I don't like stubs on desperado

[lilac ermine]

Or 80% mobility is better since moving so much?

[keen timber]

surely im fine jumping into 24

[manic wolf]

Alright maybe thats a better comp as I do use them on Desp', not on other builds

I would still rather pinning on a melee build because +STR seems better than +Dam, but eh

[tropic crag]

lol probably... thats like auric ish level i think?

[bronze glade]

I'd prob take pinning on desp stubs

[manic wolf]

Thats about high int heresy

[tropic crag]

yeah i wish it was easier to get into games for solo players, the party finder is just barely serviceable atm

[keen timber]

ok apparently i wasnt eligible to start a 24?

[manic wolf]

Its terrible

[keen timber]

what's caused that

this is very poorly explained

[manic wolf]

Need to finish a Mael on any given class first

[keen timber]

i have

[amber sundial]

smyker starts shrine in a horde while team is scattered
DH spawns as boss
watch as team dies solo

[keen timber]

I was running maels with argus the other day

[manic wolf]

Weird..

[keen timber]

like?

[manic wolf]

Pretty sure thats the only gate

[dense hollow]

auric maelstorm puts you at havoc 16

[tropic crag]

i agree with you that its a needlessly obtuse system the way they've put it in

[keen timber]

well

why can i not start this then

[tropic crag]

are you joining or starting?

[keen timber]

is there any gear lock at all

joining

[manic wolf]

have you already joined a party?

[keen timber]

apparently i wasn't eligible to start

so

[amber sundial]

you cant start it solo

you need a group

[bronze glade]

DH boss spawn kinda sucks with pubbies

[keen timber]

i wasn't solo

i was in a 4 man group

i joined the group, and apparently they couldn't start because i wasn't eligible

[manic wolf]

If someone is in a mission already/not eligible, it throws up an error message, might no be you

[amber sundial]

ah the classic bug where you're in op select to others / the game

[keen timber]

seems like it was me

[tropic crag]

i thought i've been dragged into 20 somethings when i was that low down

[keen timber]

was that really it?

[lilac ermine]

Maybe you have to demote assignment your on already

Or talk to dukane

[pallid quail]

i can assure you that species is not extinct. i just had a very long mission with one

[keen timber]

ive literally never run a havoc before

is there a gap between whjere you are and where you can join

[signal nebula]

Most common reasons:

1. You haven't completed the auric maesltreom requirement
2. Deployment is bugged and they need to end an ongoing deployment

[pallid quail]

no

but u gotta talk to the mommysar

[signal nebula]

That's why you wouldn't have been eligible for havoc

[neon fern]

talk to dukane

[keen timber]

yeah that's not the reason

[manic wolf]

Ewww

[signal nebula]

Did you complete the auric maelstrom?

[keen timber]

yes

that's why it isn't showing the "do an auric mael" mission there now

[neon fern]

talk to dukaaaaane

[keen timber]

i cant

[signal nebula]

Then they had a bugged deployment

[keen timber]

because ive already done it

[neon fern]

then restart ig

[signal nebula]

So dw it will be fine next time

[radiant swift]

put on some mods - going fine - game crashes mid combat

[keen timber]

yep it worked now

[tropic crag]

gl and have fun (shouldn't be that bad tbh)

[keen timber]

it's 19, should be cake

[neon fern]

it should be easy but if ur with randoms who nose

[leaden fable]

nahh you clearly had a laid back attitude about who you were playing with, love to see it in high havoc. Hit us with that scum build brother

[tropic crag]

the darkside of modding , do you know which mod it might be or naw

[leaden fable]

I'm kinda in the "fuck it if they wanna join let em" category for letting people into havoc lobbies anyways so it's nice to see others doing it too

I think our arby was level 36 or something but he was doing work for a level 36

[tropic crag]

yeah the very few times i host i just let whoever in within reason

[leaden fable]

work in general really

[lilac ermine]

Let me inn

[leaden fable]

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-let-me-wahh-wild-go-gif-13490041

[lilac ermine]

Im lvl 30 (+35)

[signal nebula]

I think the strat with havoc is to practice on levels lower than you current deployment.

I.e. there's really not any difference between havoc 28 and 29, as an example. But it you're 29 you can play other people's 28s and get better while helping them without risk

The biggest threshold is 30

After that it's more incremental

[lilac ermine]

I wish they make curios buyable

And upgradable

[signal nebula]

How many Melkbucks do you have

[lilac ermine]

I want more then 15% toughness and 2+ stamina

[signal nebula]

Cause that's the best way to get curios

[lilac ermine]

I have like 1000

[charred bronze]

Interesting. Seems worthy of a bug report? Did you take proximity of kills into account?

[signal nebula]

Rough

[tropic crag]

honestly the +1 on both isn't going to make that much difference... and i'm of the opinion that stam regen is worlds better than stam

but irun melee setups so thats probably why

[signal nebula]

Stamina curios at +3 are very good for a few classes

Stamina is just a good stat

[lilac ermine]

I use 2 15% toughness curio and 1 2+ stamina curio

[signal nebula]

Farm melk bucks and play the slot machine. Sucks but you will eventually get lucky

[zinc heath]

Feels like in auric, i have better result with smite psyker in addition to flame staff because in auric, you can't be sure if your team mate can handle those crushers or ragers properly without eating tons of damage in the process

[lilac ermine]

Whats best mission to farm for good curios

[signal nebula]

I think Smite is bad for Havoc, imo at least

[hasty agate]

The one where you wait 1 hour for the shop to reset

[signal nebula]

Doesn't kill stuff fast enough

[snow wraith]

does the speedload talent stack with the speedloader weapon perk?

[charred bronze]

Wasn't there a website where you could set shop alerts back when itemization was total trash?

[hasty agate]

Yes

[lilac ermine]

Melk shop or rea; shop

[radiant swift]

yep

[tender marten]

Hitmass is upped so much that even with EP it takes ages to lock fodder down.

[charred bronze]

Someone did some testing and it seems that maybe they don't.

[tropic crag]

most auric matches are free wins tho tbh, its usually a race to delete the crusher first

[rotund agate]

I got the fatshark sign-in error just now. does anyone else have the same problem?

[hasty agate]

The armory

[signal nebula]

Agreed, big trap

[broken bear]

lol i got this finally

[lilac schooner]

Nah smite works, you just need a team with good dps not another cc person like a relic zealot

It made rotten armor very doable last havoc

[bronze glade]

4 smyker havoc clear when

[charred bronze]

Lol, not lately it seems. The number of times I've bailed allies out of crusher attacks lately is too damn high.

[dim moth]

Kinda? It's bad in the same ways chorus is bad but with less opportunity cost

Except it doesn't have the niche of staggering monstrosities

Or piss toughness

[tropic crag]

oh i was talking lately, most aurics are wins for my qp, the odd one ends in dumb ways but thats just darktide

[dim moth]

But also psyker doesn't really uuuuuuse their blitz if they're not gun psyker

So it's not that unrealistic to just take smite and keep it in your back pocket for a rainy day (20 crusher jumpscare)

[charred bronze]

Maybe I've had a run of spectacularly bad luck

[tropic crag]

could be, or people in my match making range are better at the game?

[dim moth]

And you lose kinetic flayer for it but that's not that big of a deal even if KF is pretty alright

[zinc heath]

Guess it is server difference or timezone difference because in my case, crushers and those big maulers group usually mean someone in the group usually goes down

[charred bronze]

Lol possibly

[zinc heath]

Like my auric win rate feels like 40% tbh

[sturdy linden]

getting used to not having Jittery and Nimble is painful

and no dodge linger at all on Ogryn

[hardy maple]

did they fix whatevers going on with the dodges?

[tropic crag]

maybe its because i run face first at those groups and try to take all the heat? since yeah most people don't know how to fightin groups of maulers or ragers without kiting around like crazy. So maybe its the slayer habit of pressing W at the biggest threat thats helping?

[hardy maple]

or is it a placebo effect

[bronze glade]

Looking at crowbar stats

[broken bear]

placebo/ppl not understanding it

[sturdy linden]

last game I had to bounce back and forth between a desperado scum who was playing very good, and a Garbotrator who just would not fucking move, and a cycling member (join / quit / join / quit), and I ate so fucking many stray hits

[broken bear]

its typical fatshark illiteracy

[bronze glade]

Roughly same weakspot damage as shivs

[tropic crag]

like pulsing ragers in place isn't something i see alot of other players do in darktide, probably because guns are a thing

[bronze glade]

No wonder crowbar feels so shit

[hardy maple]

okay what are people not understanding about it?

[bronze glade]

Against hordes

[broken bear]

fuck uh

@spiral horizon greybeard explain

[sturdy linden]

#hivescum-class message

[tropic crag]

if you're talking about nimble, yeah people were just not understanding how it worked, i've been using it the whole time and its been great tbh

[broken bear]

basically my understanding is it increases dodge distance but some other variables are weird

[tropic crag]

which is how i think dodging always acts in tide games when you increase the distance like that?

i guess darktide also has the true iframes that are new to the series

[bronze glade]

DT doesn't have actual iframes

[manic wolf]

Garbotrator Lule

[hardy maple]

the mastery rank shiv skin is pretty fucking cool

[broken bear]

wait what is it

[tropic crag]

for ranged, not melee

[zinc heath]

What does nimble actually do then i just take it without much thought

[hardy maple]

I was about to show you but i got put in a match

[sturdy linden]

#hivescum-class message

[bronze glade]

That's just dodging state still

#arbites-class message

[hardy maple]

you might as well have this set to a hotkey at this point

[leaden fable]

Wow that's incredibly unintuitive lmao

[sturdy linden]

it should be pinned

hopefully Wardens will pin it later

[leaden fable]

[charred bronze]

hm, I just tested loading in psychanium with and without Speedloader, but with the Speedload blessing, and reload was obviously faster with the talent

[icy scaffold]

I’m just glad it works and is worth taking (nimble I mean)

[manic wolf]

Its still a really high value pickup tho as more safety in melee, and you're Scum, so like, just dodge again vs ranged

[charred bronze]

obviously they were all close range kills, since neither functions outside of short range

[broken bear]

.oh shi i didnt realize they were gold

[zinc heath]

Soo nimble helps with melee but not ranged i see i see

[charred bronze]

I'm guessing within 12m, but I don't want to mess with that

[broken bear]

helps with both but not in way u think

[tropic crag]

how is the sniper line going through me when i dodge against walls then? because vt doesn't work like that... like i dodge into a wall and don't move out of the way but the sniper shot misses if you time it right (much tighter timing than normal dodge)... not saying you're wrong just asking whats actually happening there

[manic wolf]

Im so tempted to make a pair of those IRL to mount on the wall

[zinc heath]

Considering i am playing desperdo build. Most ranged don't bother me and i just hose bullets at whoever is hitting me from afar to suppress them anyway

[dim moth]

golden screwdrivers

[bronze glade]

Snipers track targets unlike explosions and other sources of AOE damage

[charred bronze]

that's definitely not how DT works. The number of times I've failed to dodge because I ran into a wall/trashcan/poxburster is far too high

[broken bear]

lowk i wanna switch vultures dodge for blessed stims

[leaden fable]

Just mount a couple of beggin strips instead

[tropic crag]

yes but i'm not moving

[icy scaffold]

Embrace chem dependency

[manic wolf]

But I could make the real deal tho

[broken bear]

im a desperado whore

[lilac ermine]

I never dodge at all bc of vulture dodge and desperado so I was just walking and a sniper shooted through my heartt

[bronze glade]

Idk then maybe it's because of the dodge state. Snipers work in weird ways

[tropic crag]

i've had to do it alot this patch, because of the hitbox problems you get stuck in place more so i've had to practice standing still sniper dodges, theres a few frames after you press dodge that the bullet will pass through you but its tight and i don't think i could do it when not in 30fps

[manic wolf]

Embrace Adrenaline more like

[broken bear]

these fuck

[rotund agate]

btw, does having a max-viscosity (75 sec CD) stimm still only apply its effects to the Stimm-box ult if the stimm CD is over?

[icy scaffold]

You get more desperados with 30-40% cdr with chem dependency. Plus the funny 15-20% crit rate that you always have

And DR if you so choose

[broken bear]

i dont need more cdr

max 10-20 seconds without desperado available

[icy scaffold]

You can never have too much cdr 😎

[leaden fable]

Who is really gonna remember to use a stim every time its up let's be real

[lilac ermine]

How without cdr

[broken bear]

stimm

[lilac ermine]

Cdr stimm?

[broken bear]

yes

[lilac ermine]

Oh me too

[icy scaffold]

I use cdr stim with chem dependency because I’m that lazy. It’s fun

[lilac ermine]

Do you use the klay one or kalma

[broken bear]

i do ranged

idk wat kalma is

[lilac ermine]

Kalma is 25% reduction

[icy scaffold]

I think kalma is the flat 25% cdr at the end of the cdr stim line

[lilac ermine]

Klay is 75% on ranged kills

[tropic crag]

things like this is actually why i stick to automatic bonk brain builds like rampage/adren/tox

[main wagon]

The homemade scissors tho…

[lilac ermine]

Mme

[tropic crag]

i always get lazy about upkeeping more complicated builds

[icy scaffold]

I just stim after every desperado. It tends to line up nicely like that

[tropic crag]

playing scum will def get me to remember to use stims on other classes finally

[icy scaffold]

Once you hit max stacks you have a lot of leeway

[charred bronze]

speedloader blessing falls off at exactly this range from the poxwalkers

[dim moth]

yeah 12.5 meters

that's what the game consider "close range"

[charred bronze]

anyone know what the talent icon for the speed loader talent looks like?

[lilac ermine]

Did someone say speedloader blessing doesnt stack with speedloader talent

[tropic crag]

oh i thought it was less but never checked, i would have guess 8 meters

[icy scaffold]

Pretty sure it does stack

[charred bronze]

yeah, that's what I'm investigating

[bronze glade]

That's what they said

[charred bronze]

it seems to work

[bronze glade]

But it feels like it stacks

[charred bronze]

but they may have different ranges

[lilac ermine]

🤔

[spiral horizon]

what?

[manic wolf]

It does stack

[dim moth]

it should but there's a hard cap on how much reload speed you can have which is 100% iirc

[tropic crag]

someone wanted to know about the nimble confusion lol

[bronze glade]

Kulis guide says it stacks too

[lilac ermine]

Isnt speedload blesing only go up to 50% and blessing is 30% so not over 100%

[unreal osprey]

boringggg

[keen timber]

ok havoc done, did 19, was very easy

[versed spruce]

Fury of the Faithful start frames

[charred bronze]

nope, same ranges, both icons are visible

they stack

[lilac ermine]

Is it different times without and with

[tropic crag]

yeah thats sub auric, havok stays very chill for a while till you get closer to 30

[charred bronze]

yes

[keen timber]

cant believe i unequipped my shit suppression shield for that

i shouldve just used the shield for the mastery rank

[bronze glade]

Pretty sure that's just dodge state too

[charred bronze]

I don't have a good way to get your exact second and millisecond though

[lilac ermine]

How long with only blessing vs talent

[charred bronze]

but by feel, absolutely

[lilac ermine]

Oh ok

[versed spruce]

Nah, you can use it to spot-check bursters

You still get flung but take no damage

[manic wolf]

Arb main? Boo! Hiss! 😄

[spiral horizon]

oh I seee

[charred bronze]

feels a good .3-.5 seconds faster with the talent, while at full stacks of the blessing

[keen timber]

nah i just stayed on my arb for it

im a zealot

[versed spruce]

Tell that to every zealot main

[lilac ermine]

Dont players have immunity when theyre waiting to be rescued

[manic wolf]

Can't argue with that 😄

[bronze glade]

Pretty sure kuli did

[versed spruce]

The tness immunity may be why you don't take damage from bursters but Idk

[tropic crag]

yeah when i'm thinking about it this only works on snipers and maybe (like big maybe) plasma boys... but i only can get it to work on snipers so its probably some weirdness with snipers having a forced miss over it being iframes or something

[manic wolf]

Still undecided if like Scummer more than Zealot or not

[bronze glade]

I dislike all the zealot personalities

So scum wins for me

[tropic crag]

i'll always like oggy the most because they deserve all the rashuns, but i think scum will be one of my main played classes now

[manic wolf]

Isnt the point that they're all sort of unlikeable lol

[versed spruce]

It's the other way around for me

[charred bronze]

they're both my current favorites. Zealot and scum have very different feel, even playing melee builds. Zealot charge is peak

[versed spruce]

None of the personalities except for specifically female anarchist are interesting or compelling

[charred bronze]

and I miss it SO HARD playing adrenaline

[versed spruce]

Or fun

[calm aurora]

judge is based

[bronze glade]

I like crazy twats but not that sort of crazy

[manic wolf]

Yeah, both are super fun for different reasons

Zealot can clutch a game like noone else, but Scummer has them big damage hits

[tropic crag]

alot of the male anarchists voicelines with other classes are pure gold tho tbh

[charred bronze]

I will say that vulturado is immensely strong, and stronger than any zealot build I've played

absurdly good

[versed spruce]

Maybe, I usually only see fanarch and the only lines I saw from manarch were eh

[plucky nymph]

Scum can clutch impossible situations like arb on h40

[versed spruce]

I just wish more VAs would put they whole voicussy into their work

[charred bronze]

I feel more effective in melee as zealot than adrenaline scum. Better output on scum, but better overall class package with zealot

[versed spruce]

"loik rippee fish inna barrel" is a boring line with boring delivery, no offense to people more qualified to act than I am

[tropic crag]

i feel like he nails the "i'm just fucking with these people because i'm bored and they can't do anything back" sort of jackass perfectly and i love it, also i love his interactions with oggy, he doesn't mess with the oggy he's just nice

[plucky nymph]

This is happening to me so much it makes me want to put down every dog I see

[manic wolf]

Yeah, the main thing thats noticable going back to Zealot is that he's so much tankier and capable of dealing with stupidly bad scenarios, but he does not have the upfront damage Scum does

[sturdy linden]

superdogs

[woeful hill]

I think this one was because nimble

but idk

[sturdy linden]

I have been doing some phenomenally dumb shit on Ogryn today

[plucky nymph]

I think nimble bc I don’t get that bs on my psyk

[charred bronze]

only during charge window. Adrenaline feels like the charge window for 30 seconds

[amber sundial]

dog clearly is hacking

needs removed from game

[plucky nymph]

I been loving the braced autos lmao

[charred bronze]

if I had a big sweeping 2handed weapon for adrenaline scum though? mmmmm

[tropic crag]

oggy can not live through the same things scum can at all (gunner swarms mostly )

[keen timber]

they should've gotten the girl that voiced V to do one of the scum voices. She crushes everything she does

[charred bronze]

if I didn't hate h sword, it'd be perfect

[manic wolf]

Oh, Im one of the few players who uses Stealth Zealot so cannot comment

[amber sundial]

beeg metal steel pipe

[woeful hill]

BAG are good anti dreg missions

[winter galleon]

give scum evis

and give it bolter while at it, why not

[plucky nymph]

Ye exactly

[sturdy linden]

troo, but a week of melee scum taught me better map awareness

[amber sundial]

give hive scum every class exclusive weapon

[mighty belfry]

The dog is actually a psyker and used its warp powers to magnetize themselves towards Ainz

It's that simple.

[charred bronze]

I like being a human explosion. Charge into a mixed group and annihilate everything in a few relic blade swings. Feelsgood

[amber sundial]

when are we getting blank class to counter the psykers

[manic wolf]

Ogryn is the peak of "I dont care about rotters" Can do some absurdly stupid shit on him an still live

[charred bronze]

adrenaline scum is ultra potent, but doesn't deliver that feeling

[keen timber]

take away bonesaw, shivs, crowbar, needle, daps and dsp's and give them to everyone else but scum, then give scum plasma gun, power sword and every other class exclusive (including psyker staves)

[tropic crag]

lol when playing scum every time i see a gunner swarm at bad spacing my oggy heart goes into overdrive... then i remember i can just hit shift and ignore them as i run up

[plucky nymph]

How can walls be real if our eyes arent real

[amber sundial]

walls arent real

[woeful hill]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/886742356529922172/1145863884545204335/attachment.gif

[amber sundial]

that ability doesnt exist

[keen timber]

mfw someone procs the daemonhost but my untouchable walks into it and it goes away

[manic wolf]

If Scum got Sapper Shovel I would actually not complain in the slightest tbh

[charred bronze]

are you using the sprint dodge talent?

[limber cradle]

You can only use staves at full stacks of chem dependency and only you can see what it's doing

[keen timber]

LMAO

[amber sundial]

the "peril of the warp" is just you overdosing

[tropic crag]

yes, its an absurd talent that just keeps you alive during any moment you'd normally die as a melee focused player tbh

[charred bronze]

hmmm

maybe I'll try that on my adrenaline build

[keen timber]

Perils of the weed

[charred bronze]

it feels way, WAY more delicate than vulturado

I mean obv

but to an extreme degree

[plucky nymph]

You can just spam slide into gunners on h40 and be ok without the sprint talent if you want too

[manic wolf]

😄 wouldnt that make it better than on Psyker then? Because you'd be less of a detriment to your teammates visibility?

[tropic crag]

thats the main build to use it on honestly... just keep sprint sliding from fight to fight and you'll be fine... if you want more tank dip over to the right side of the tree and grab the toxin skills that work with melee on the far right and middle of it

[mighty belfry]

I've started to just not run any of the dodge help except nimble tbh

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/ugly-americans-crazy-wizard-knife-gif-6148506

[manic wolf]

MAN!

[tropic crag]

if you grab both the node that lowers enemy damage when poisoned and the one that gives you 15% toughness on melee kills you become crazy tanky

[manic wolf]

I miss Ugly Americans

[winter galleon]

the twist is its not real, you play your own game but inreality you are dead on the ground the whole match contributing nothing

[manic wolf]

That series was peak

[limber cradle]

One of my favorite shows ever put on TV tbh

[tropic crag]

i only run nimble when running rampage/adren/tox

[limber cradle]

I love Leonard

[manic wolf]

100%, it was such good social commentary

[tropic crag]

and the sprint dodge node i mean but thats not actually dodging

[mighty belfry]

Nah nimble is like the one must have for me really.

[tropic crag]

sorry i meant its the only dodge node i run on that build, not the only build i run it on

[mighty belfry]

Everything else is just a bonus that I don't particularly need as long as I'm mindful of my gameplay

[limber cradle]

Love nimble, love dodgemaxxing

[charred bronze]

sounds interesting. Can you show me your build. I'm agonizing over what I'd drop to get those

[mighty belfry]

Even jitter isn't really that necessary if you're running something like shivs because having those four dodges is all you really need with how quick and long they are.

[tropic crag]

one sec i'll give you the scuffed screenshot version because i'm too lazy to make a gameslatern one or something

[mighty belfry]

Especially since nimble buffs even your inefficient dodges

So scum's inefficient dodges are still better than a lot of other classes efficient dodges

[manic wolf]

Dodge with 25% more yeeeeet

[tropic crag]

you can take whatever nade you want and move nodes around, i doubt its perfect but its what i landed on natually

[mighty belfry]

It's quite funny

[manic wolf]

Its funny till you break your ankles dodging off the ledge at the start of Gloriana

[amber sundial]

swapping off scum feels like im in a wheelchair with how good all of his weapons are at dodging compared to other classes

[manic wolf]

In fact, its still pretty funny then

[mighty belfry]

Don't have to remind me.

I've done that in like four maps at this point.

[tropic crag]

also i'm using bonesaw with it so if you're using something else you might find different nodes have more value

because bonesaw is weird

[limber cradle]

I'm amazed I haven't sent myself off the fake bridges in the middle of the trench mission yet

[manic wolf]

https://youtu.be/DBPjQiyF8Z4 @astral coral A funny, but also kinda banging tune

[tropic crag]

ive come close like 15 times at least but yeah i'm amazed i haven't either

[charred bronze]

yar, I find i prefer shivs or taxe

gonna try to hold onto Swift Endurance

[broken bear]

lawd

shivs and dap go hard

[limber cradle]

Is Glizzy Gobbler @high gull

[broken bear]

Yes.

[tropic crag]

yeah you can probably drop a node or two off of the adren nodes and pick up one of the on kill nodes instead... the bonesaw isn't great at proccing adren with the on kill nodes but taxe and shivs are

[jagged radish]

I've settled into a desperado stubbers build and MAN this is the most fun I've had gaming in a long time. This class is so fucking fun I adore it

[charred bronze]

looking like this right now:

[jagged radish]

[charred bronze]

toxin mania seems good though

[glacial gyro]

For the saw?

or something else

[charred bronze]

shivs/taxe

[tropic crag]

i think bonesaw needs it more

toxin mania i mean

i think you can skip it on shivs def

[charred bronze]

honestly, the only node I think I'll miss is Float

[broken bear]

wait... desperado with melee crit

😭

[manic wolf]

Nooo

With Hyperviolence 😄

[broken bear]

its so funny

[jagged radish]

On a ranged build I've found going slashing shivs with bleed on crit, with toxin on crit and blackout to stumble them around actually really helps cover the crusher weakness

[charred bronze]

I probably never needed the cleave with shivs

[jagged radish]

[jagged radish]

(probs better with stabby shivs but I like my slashy shivs)

[broken bear]

lets test this dog ass

[radiant swift]

bleed on crit is super bait

[tropic crag]

like i think with shivs and even taxe you'll not need the 15% of toxin mania because of hyperviolence, saw proccs hyperviolence less over all

[glacial gyro]

I think crowbar is the best melee for a ranged build, because it gives you crusher tools

[charred bronze]

I don't have H-V right now

I'd have to squeeze it in somehow

[kind latch]

finess stim + precog and you two shot them

[tender marten]

Toxin Mania is starting to look like bait to me tbh

[radiant swift]

eh

it stagger crushers

[glacial gyro]

It kind of is; Half the time, the enemy dies to the toxin.

[radiant swift]

but remember HS also have access to axes

[tropic crag]

i think its only worth it on bonesaw tbh

[radiant swift]

as boring as that is

[tender marten]

yea exactly

[manic wolf]

?

[charred bronze]

could probably drop the Adrenaline Unbound 5% toughness regen though, since I'll be getting more toughness via Toxic Reneal

[manic wolf]

Base damage is a massive increase to overall damage

[tender marten]

if you can afford to take it and not lose any other crucial talents then its certainly a 'go for it', but i doubt it's an actual great pick overall

[kind latch]

what mod are you using for the percentages?

[glacial gyro]

Also imagine going into the tox tree and not getting pocket toxin

[jagged radish]

Ye, but I don't run finess on my stim. Am just talking about covering crushers on a build that is not equipped to fight them very well. I'm still not good into crushers but I can at least help.

[broken bear]

idk some scoreboard

[tender marten]

in my case i basically dont ever take it and prefer Quick and Deadly instead

[broken bear]

not tryin to be rude i just dont know

[tender marten]

same bonus, easier proc condition

[radiant swift]

I mean it is literally just called scoreboard tbf

[kind latch]

fair enough then

[manic wolf]

#hivescum-class message Cole explaining. It is not a bait talent

[charred bronze]

I'm not going to bother with it for adrenaline build. The stuff I'm next to is gonna die anyway

[kind latch]

i have scoreboard but i wanted to know how they have percentages of damage done etc

[kind latch]

fair

[tender marten]

i get that but the issue is actually maintaining it

[tropic crag]

i think taxe and shivs can procc hyper violence without it tho so it often doesn't get value from it, i don't think its bait tho... i think it has real value on saw because it lets you start getting hyperviolence rolling

[tender marten]

its really just bonesaws that reeeaaally want it

[mighty belfry]

It's situational. If you have stuff that can spread toxins, it's a great pick. If not, utterly pointless.

Even pocket sand justifies it tbh

[manic wolf]

If you're using something with low crit chance, sure, but if you're using anything with high crit chance or the Saw, super worth it

[tender marten]

everything else is either killing too quickly for it to matter from toxin stacks alone or genuinely just doesnt need it to begin with (anything with HV or HC basically)

[manic wolf]

Or indeed Tox Blinders

[radiant swift]

I got a 17% fucken curio to drop from this too

[tender marten]

someone will eventually run it with the uptime mod and then we'll have a better answer

[glacial gyro]

OK I thought toxin mania was a different talent (gain toughness when killing a toxin infected enemy with a melee attack)

Toxin mania is absolutely valid IF you are using the saw or a weapon with high cleave that hits lots of targets very fast with weak attacks (So... Saw and shivs)

[tender marten]

but im willing to bet most of its user are at maybe 1-2 stacks for 90% of fights with it flashing on and off and only getting occasional bursts of 3 stacks

[jagged radish]

It's by no means a crusher deleter, but given my build's crazy desperado/stim uptime, I can annhiliate most other enemies. The main strength is blackout letting me knock crushers over for my team, but if I need to dps them I can at least stack a NASTY dot on them.

[tropic crag]

lol i love the toughness one, it lets me face tank like i'm a slayer

[tender marten]

donk ding donk swoosh ding donk swoosh woosh wish donk ding donk ding weesh woosh donk

[jagged radish]

BONK

[glacial gyro]

Blackouts are goated. Every time I take something else, I find myself in a situation at least once per game where I go "I wish I had blackouts"

[tropic crag]

yeah, i only keep max stacks regularly on the bonesaw and its because i aim to hit a different target each swing if i can

but without trying to it would be 2 stacks usually i think

[tender marten]

cause yea again outside of bonesaw or pumping a crowd full of blueedle gun, i cant keep the stacks at 3 for any decent time

[tropic crag]

yeah

[tender marten]

and with tox blinders most of the shit i hit wouldve died with just the base 3 tox stacks and the 15% is wasted lol

[glad latch]

Should roll Toxic Renewal into Toxic Mania, since Toxic Renewal does kind of suck and then add something new in Toxic Renewals place.

[hearty mango]

Bonesaw is so good I love it. I have no idea how effective the toxin is because I just shred everything

[tropic crag]

yeah the tox blinder use case is more for elite swarms than normal hordes

[glacial gyro]

this is what my current saw build looks like

[tender marten]

tox blinder use case is everything

[radiant swift]

true

[tropic crag]

once it clicks its such a great weapon, i didn't think i would like it at all but i'm loving it

[tender marten]

gunners? tox blinder. horde? tox blinder. elite wave? two tox blinders. weddings? tox blinder.

[hearty mango]

No hyper violence or hyper critical?

[glacial gyro]

Hordes? Tox blinder. Ragers? Tox blinder. Crushers? Tox blinder.

[tropic crag]

lol i meant the use case in which toxic mania gains value from tox blinders

[charred bronze]

@tropic crag gonna try this with shivs and see what I think

[tender marten]

oh yea

[charred bronze]

managed to get float back by dropping Pulverizing. I'll see if I miss it

[glacial gyro]

This build leans on stacking toxin fast and letting it do the heavy lifting. Base damage on the saw is pretty awful. You don't need those, you just need to crit things in the head and attack really fast with lots of cleave.

[charred bronze]

if I do, I might move the shout point into that spot

[astral coral]

retired Hive scum reliving his best days

[short vine]

For those who know, do crits from needle pistol affect chem toxin damage in any way?

[lapis raft]

give extra stacks

[short vine]

okok just making sure

[tropic crag]

honestly should work, just remember to sprint slide around when not actively fighting and you should hopefully live longer than you have been

[short vine]

that crits do anything for it

[lapis raft]

+1 on the toxin spreading variant

and +2 on other one

same for weakspots

[charred bronze]

Oh man I already do that constantly. I was getting chipped down in melee mostly

[glad latch]

Bonesaw is really trash until you can max it out and take appropriate talents like swift endurance and the cleave blessings/talents then it just kills everything, bosses, ogryns, trash, it does well into everything, only somewhat getting into trouble at times due to the cleave running out.

[charred bronze]

when overwhelmed by mixed hordes. Mind you, that was bad positioning mostly

but my zealot could survive my mistakes and adrenaline scum couldn't

maybe this'll feel tougher

[tropic crag]

the tox stuff will help with that tbh, that 15% procs alot and the reduced damage def helps for when you make mistakes

and shivs crit enough to apply all the tox you'll need for that

[hearty mango]

Maybe I'll do that. I was running talents to buff melee damage but maybe I should lean more into the toxin style

[leaden fable]

Not a bad idea tbh I might try this

[lapis raft]

surely the 5% regen is better than 15 spring dodge angle here

[tender marten]

sproing

[glacial gyro]

You should never run out of cleave with this unless you're hitting carapace

[tropic crag]

A) the dodge angle is pretty great

B) thats not the op part of that node... its that you can sprint dodge with no stam

[lapis raft]

how are you running out of stam on scum

[kind latch]

how often do you run out of stam on hive scum tho

[lapis raft]

also if you are then regained posture is way way better

[tropic crag]

every single time i activate rampage

[lapis raft]

and you dont need both

[glacial gyro]

This is a positioning issue

[kind latch]

i mean you shouldnt be getting barrel stuffed when your rampage is about to run out

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/993576029656469616/1272302147928723477/cat-fire.gif

[glad latch]

I use that same setup and you can indeed run out of cleave when hyperdensity happens.

[icy scaffold]

Yea, easiest with the base 3 stacks of dependency since you get a lot of leeway with stim timings. Doable with the 4 stack node but can be a bit of a pain getting up to 4 stacks in the first place

[random shuttle]

Nature is fully healed

I see all classes in all games again

[tropic crag]

i don't, i have sprint dodge so i don't have to ever worry about rampage ending... i ignore the downside and just keep fighting like normal and enjoy the 20% increased damge... i also push stab alot and drain my own stam on purpose alot for the 20% damage bonus upkeep... if you're playing melee scum you WANT to run out of stam

[glacial gyro]

When a horde gets THAT dense I just chuck a toxic blinder, it kills everything

[tropic crag]

my stam bar is almost always 1 pushstab away from empty and i empty it on cooldown basically

[glacial gyro]

Or if I see a rager pack, or a crusher pack, or some distant gunners

[glad latch]

Yeah same or I just spray the vraks autogun into it until it's thin enough.

[glacial gyro]

in fact I kind of just throw toxic blinders at everything

[mighty belfry]

The humble manstopper double barrel lurks in the dark

[tropic crag]

because if you block during a pushstab when you're out of stam you don't get staggered... so you can still block while out of stam you just need to do it mid push

[kind latch]

yknow what the second part of what you're saying actually makes alot of sense, i use jittery so never wanted to dump my stam like that

[reef skiff]

i've started using stimm supply and now i dont wanna go back

[tropic crag]

its mostly that i have a habit of doing it anyway, i played vt2 like that too... i will burn my stam always... so a damage bonus from my bad habit is just amazing

but its also why i take stam regen over bonus stam on scum, so i can tank it out at the bottom and have it back basically instantly

melee scum that is at least, extra stam is probably better on ranged scum

[mighty belfry]

It's kinda addicting tbh

[manic wolf]

Out burning stam like its a reefer on the streets of tertium

[tropic crag]

i have stam and i must shove

[leaden fable]

Some sort of... Chemical dependency?

[mighty belfry]

[spiral horizon]

stimmulating discussion going on in here for sure

[broken bear]

SHUT

[mighty belfry]

Funny thing is the Build I usually use stimm supply on has no keystone at all

[glad latch]

https://tenor.com/view/dallas-payday2-kiss-medic-bag-gif-25071219

[tender marten]

i think crowbar should be allowed to mode swap while holding block

[kind latch]

does anyone have any actual numbers on how hyper violence works?

[amber sundial]

i use chem dep with it purely for extra crit chance and tdr

[manic wolf]

Be better if it could swap mode mid-swing

[amber sundial]

25% of overkill dmg is added as flat melee dmg

[glad latch]

Damage go up.

[tropic crag]

i think best would replace the special with an attack that spins it

[manic wolf]

Hit stuff and other stuff you hit dies faster

[reef skiff]

i also dont think i can ever switch off chem grenade, its saved my ass so many times

[tropic crag]

i'm pretty sure it just takes the damage that would have happened over here, and then moves it over there as long as you swing within 1 second

[rotund agate]

what about pocket toxin blinders?

[sturdy linden]

Unfortunately. Every time I see an Arbi or Vet I cringe inside, knowing what's about to go down in 80% of the cases

[drowsy relic]

Rampage and chem dependency is so good

[keen timber]

pocket tox blinders is peak

[reef skiff]

now thats an idea

[glad latch]

but rocket launcher is so good now, there's a reason to use it over chem nades or tox blinders

[manic wolf]

But zook tho

[tropic crag]

honestly i think these two choices are both amazing for different reasons

[broken bear]

rpg is the anti boss

i take it cuz the rest of my build gives anti horde

[manic wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/ponke-ponkesol-solana-sol-fire-everything-gif-8529004744747785922

[hearty mango]

I just rpg for the o shit moments

[kind latch]

phrasing it this way made alot of sense thanks

[glad latch]

the anti orgyn pack too.

[broken bear]

i fuck up my aim and miss half of em

[manic wolf]

Its anti-everything if your team feeds you grenades

[clever wren]

if

[broken bear]

the humble karkin vet

[glad latch]

Aim for their feat or ground.

[manic wolf]

(they quite often will)

[mental igloo]

nature won't be healed until I don't see smite in aurics

[broken bear]

LMAO

[tropic crag]

yeah i find most games the team is leaving alot of nades because either people aren't using them or they regen them

[manic wolf]

Used to be value for money that did, not any more

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/milk-missile-missile-soviet-missile-homie-dimension-soviet-gif-27348463

[keen timber]

yeah a lot of people build into naturally generatable nades

[main wagon]

He’s missing the arm cast

[foggy lantern]

My chainaxe is my anti-boss. Pour as much attack speed into it as possible and it has kinda nutty damage.

[main wagon]

Or sling, I think lol

[tropic crag]

i still need to make a chaxe build

but bonesaw too fun

[reef skiff]

i used to basically only ever use chainsword and chainaxe on my Zealot

[sturdy linden]

Gonna try out Bistol Desperado later tonight. Looked fun when I tested it in the psyk

[glad latch]

Henry the Hivescum: "I feel quite Hungry!"

[sturdy linden]

The aoe on the explosions is huge with Lethal Prox

[tropic crag]

the damage is probably intense lol

[manic wolf]

The single use for second MK of Bpistol has been discovered

[foggy lantern]

I recommend Str on kill and strength on charged heavy. Up to +40% from kills and +60% based on charge time, which builds very fast.

[sturdy linden]

I've seen smellots use it sometimes

[manic wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[amber sundial]

zealots true ranged weapon is their throwing knife

bistol is blunt throwing knife

[manic wolf]

B pistol is "oh no there is a flamer in front of me"

[tropic crag]

i'll keep that in mind, i might finally make a chaxe build today

[sturdy linden]

I just put HT/Slaught on chaxe

It was fine, quite decent

Kills carapace fast

[glad latch]

I wish the single combat knife had the throwing knife special like the twin shivs get. Instead it gets some shitty punching attack.

[astral coral]

@manic wolf do you think chemical dependency leads to erectile disfunction?

[foggy lantern]

I also recommend attack speed build and frenzy.

[bronze glade]

Thrust is a trap

[manic wolf]

From personal experience I can say it does not

[foggy lantern]

How so?

[tropic crag]

i like thrust on alot of weapons even if its not really a great option tbh

[manic wolf]

And if it does, thats what dodgy gas station pill dispensers are for

[sturdy linden]

What was most enjoyable about the chaxe was that the lights have crazy good innate stagger

[tropic crag]

because of how i weave combos thrust tends to proc alot

[sturdy linden]

So you just bully everything

[astral coral]

so you think hive scum going full junkie can still perform?

[bronze glade]

HT and Slaughterer are stronger

[glad latch]

Thrust is largely dependant on the weapon, some weapons are trash with it tbh.

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I use Chem Dep' on hybrid builds

[bronze glade]

And doing a fully charged heavy is pretty much not what you want to do in most situations

Outside of meme thunder hammer builds

[astral coral]

@manic wolf I was trying to be funny and follow up with a song. That went off the rails so im just gonna send it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTeCMoZCo24

[manic wolf]

What an opener

[compact oyster]

now this i havent seen in a LONG time

[astral coral]

it gets better

[tropic crag]

It's basically never the meta pick but it's almost always good enough as an option for the meta picks on the weapons it's good on tbh

[loud herald]

quick question, what perks do yall recommend on shiv/dual stubs on rampage build

[charred bronze]

maybe. 5% per second is slow tbh

[astral coral]

crit on dodge and bleed on crit. idk the names atm

[loud herald]

no I mean perks not blessings

[astral coral]

ah

carpace and crit?

[bronze glade]

Carayielding for shivs. Stubs prob flakiac or flakyielding

[manic wolf]

Lmaooo

[loud herald]

ty friends

[manic wolf]

Playin the riffs with a rubber cock has me in stitches

[tropic crag]

I do them all the time for a couple of reasons. The main reason is I full charge heavies when taking a look around... I keep the heavy charging as I scan things once every 10 seconds or so and then release and drag the hit box. So charging heavies is good to do when you are spinning for vision on things.

Second reason I use them a lot is so my kills are more cinematic

[foggy lantern]

Slaughterer is one of the ones I suggested. I suggested Thrust because chaxe doesn't have much cleave. Sure, it hits multiple times, but at that point I'd rather have 60% extra when I need it than a more constant 25% with weaker enemies.

[glad latch]

Thrust on some weapons could use a buff. Like who da hell is using thrust on the combat axe or bull butcher?

Probably nobody since there's much better options, but if Thrust had its numbers on those weapons pumped up significantly it could be worth using.

[cyan herald]

bless/perks for dual stubs?

[manic wolf]

https://youtu.be/kdA0mW-9jRs @astral coral heres one for you

[tropic crag]

Yeah it's bad on those weapons

[bronze glade]

You should be using MkXII and MkXII only uses heavies for ST anyways

[radiant swift]

tbf the axes seemed to be meant for single target and their heavies are pretty good

[astral coral]

dude

[manic wolf]

Once you get past how weird it is, you realise they're actually hella skilled musicians 😄

[astral coral]

I love clowncore

my favorite is 1234

[manic wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/impress-based-american-psycho-very-based-impressive-very-based-gif-21665669

[astral coral]

majestic inbetween

[manic wolf]

They've got some bangers for sure

[foggy lantern]

I am currently using whatever mk is initially unlocked when scum gets it.

[radiant swift]

if brutal momentum didn't fundamentally break how combat axes work, thrust could be a solid choice on them, but then they'd suck ass anyway so

[astral coral]

I once played Computers - Clown core at a house party. Gotta say Ive got every kind of reaction there is to express

[tropic crag]

Thrust is good in shovels. Not the meta pick but good

[manic wolf]

That.. that is brave

[cyan herald]

bless/perks for dual stubs?

[astral coral]

was bored out of my mind and didnt care enough for the people there so thought to myself whatever might aswell

[manic wolf]

Totally understandable tbh

"fuck it, we ball" type moment

[foggy lantern]

Like, I get 3 stacks from Thrust in less than a second on my chainaxe. If I'm hitting something that requires a heavy, I'm revving it up first anyway.

[random shuttle]

Arbi? How one goes down as Arby?

Computer exploded?

[bronze glade]

Eh not really. Uncanny is mandatory. And then deci is also really important. You also shouldn't be charging shovel heavies ever

[foggy lantern]

It works and it is fun. Idc if it's peak efficiency or not.

[manic wolf]

Police department got defunded 😄

[compact oyster]

https://open.spotify.com/track/5RRhc7J4E3A7boUJaEoaRv?si=dee02eaf67be4539

[manic wolf]

That one is a little too much

[astral coral]

its a bit

but I love it nontheless

love the fact were slowly turning the hivescum channel into a screamo mess

[astral coral]

"let me check the hivescum channel for some cool builds"

brojob? clowncore?

[manic wolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2g589jzYk0&list=RDY2g589jzYk0&start_radio=1 Not quite 😄

[peak bloom]

dump stats for each weapon?

[astral coral]

mobility

hivescrum floats through lvls anyway

[peak bloom]

mob over defense? crowbar

[astral coral]

comes down to preference