hivescum-class

[tender forge]

Might want to check marks

[random shuttle]

Vrakperado is the shit.

[fair oar]

At launch?

[tender forge]

Why is it so long

[low zenith]

Old vet could beat an entire level with 5 uses of their highlight ability and a shredder autopistol, yeah

[trim wind]

autopistol had it's legs broken post patch 13

[fair oar]

No way. It was a starting weapon I remember and it was terrible

[trim wind]

launch autopistol was gigabroken

[zenith fern]

desperado lasts forever if you keep shooting targets smh
Vraks does deal the least damage out of the marks

[tender forge]

It used to get +100% power

[low zenith]

Ask the oldheads like Kerfus about old volley fire shredder vet

[exotic pumice]

I hear it's good on scum and not much use on everyone else, i'm not the voice of experience on that though.

[tender forge]

I meant the gun skin lol

[zenith fern]

thats the default mark look

[trim wind]

volley fire shredder autopistol died so desperado dual autopistols could live

[zenith fern]

looks so funny

[chrome cloud]

when trying to do penances for chemical dependency and Cartel Special. Should i be running Stimm Supply ?

[dim moth]

well on the launch of the game the shredder autopistol was generally considered the best gun in the game

[low zenith]

TRUE. IT LITERALLY IS THAT PLAYSTYLE AND I LOVE IT FOR IT

[dim moth]

and these days it's an okay sidearm

veteran can use it as a primary with exe stance since they have good crit

and scum

[low zenith]

^^^

[dim moth]

because...scum

[trim wind]

at this point, you're better off using the dual autopistols

[chrome storm]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lFqygDecBQJsFTDQf?invite=cr-MSxpNzIsNDY1MzcwOTI2&v=44 crowbar blender

[keen timber]

ok

Reporting back from first ranged run

yeah pickpocket is vile

[rotund agate]

btw, any tips on how to get decent boss damage with a crowbar melee build?

[low zenith]

Verdict on desperado?

[exotic pumice]

I wish the Uzis had a nice special other than just bash

[keen timber]

and uh that's about my only opinion

[limber cradle]

Pickpocket is fuckin insane

[fair oar]

Dual wielding pistols is life.

[limber cradle]

Idk how theyre gonna nerf it but I do not imagine it's gonna live very long

[exotic pumice]

Have you tried Reginald's build ?

[keen timber]

I'm much more preferable to melee setups, but it felt ok. it was only a damnation run, and I was using the stubs since i dont have any other ranged weaps rn, but felt strong

[low zenith]

People sayin' to play melee scum like "But I basically am" w/ unlimited ammo and zero gun downtime

[rotund agate]

haven't seen it...

[zenith fern]

This still an early build but what I tried so far on auric is really that fun

[near relic]

Is that person me? :D

[lucid raptor]

rashad axe + bromentum + crit stacks on hive scum with rampage is lotsa fun with all the attack speed you can get

[low zenith]

It's considerably better with the auto stubs, but I assume you mean the pistols?

[exotic pumice]

Give it a look, dunno if you'll find it on Gameslantern, but he did a YT video on it and it looks absurd.

[lucid raptor]

there’s a +25% weak spot damage node too that’s bananas

[zenith fern]

actually need to try taxe rampage build

[keen timber]

yeah

[near relic]

I do make an effort to include lots of people's builds

[dim moth]

mid

veteran has the same thing but 30%

and that node's mid too

[keen timber]

this is a nice clip of how balanced desperado is. I started with 50 bullets, and after firing two mags, I had 50 bullets.

[lucid raptor]

i mean it’s just more weakspot damage with brutal momentum and rashad finesse but sure yeah

idk what else to take

[low zenith]

autostub scum mulches mixed hordes like launch day power sword vet or bull butcher ogryn used to, and still has some pretty wild accuracy to boot. It's rather insane.

[limber cradle]

I really gotta use pistol desperado again

I love how the pistols feel

The macs are just so fucking insane tho

[keen timber]

i plan to get a pair, I simply just had 9k dockets LMAO

[lucid raptor]

i have never rly used tac axes how are they different from rashad

[sturdy marsh]

It's really fun

[low zenith]

You'd have cleared this section in about a third the time with the right setup, but yeah that's about what I expected

[south portal]

significantly higher crit, attack speed, and mobility for less per swing damage

[keen timber]

i dont think it is possible to SPRINT that in a third of the tijme

[exotic pumice]

honestly fatshark did some REAL good work with Scum

i just wish the hypercritical-haymaker precision violence bug didn't exist

[verbal dew]

it's actually a fun axe to use

[manic kernel]

Pretty sure the early days of darktide had lasgun, boltgun as the top tier ranged weapons

[low zenith]

Vultures mark + stub autopistols innate run and gun? You absolutely could

BIGGGG trust it's fucking beautiful

[keen timber]

Perhaps

[lucid raptor]

sounds real good for this class then with a rampage crit build

[keen timber]

i am running most of that anyway mind you

[sturdy marsh]

Taxe is probably my favorite weapon in the game

[manic kernel]

Lasgun was held up quite alot by how hard it was to actually craft any good weapons.

[zenith fern]

only gonna take a month to fix it just how was with arbites

[south portal]

After the most recent buffs tac axes are good again. They were a bit mid after the patch 13 brutal momentum change

[manic kernel]

Turns out lasgun just needs semi-decent stats and flak as a perk to be a good weapon

[low zenith]

But you're not sprinting to take advantage of it, and I suspect your pistols are 60 mobility

[keen timber]

they are

to be fair they also have really low level perks

[low zenith]

80 mobility autopistols w/ the innate sprint and 3/3 vultures mark makes you run INSANELY quickly

[exotic pumice]

not me having to do a loop-de-loop just to avoid the funny perk

[tender forge]

What would you domp though?

[south portal]

What’s 10% specialist give you for breakpoints

[lucid raptor]

i have stub pistols with 76 in all stats am i goated

[keen timber]

nothing i keep forgetting to change it to elites

[low zenith]

Collat 'cause I run blaze away and speedload over pinning fire

[tender forge]

Ah

[low zenith]

Collat doesn't do anything if you don't use pinning

[sturdy marsh]

Has anyone used the chain axe on scum? Should I just use head taker/slaughterer?

[kind mist]

high collateral makes enemy shooters do spinebreaking dodges.

[compact vigil]

Aprpeciate it man! i gonna go try this out

[fair oar]

Time to play fallout

[lucid raptor]

[zenith fern]

honestly the same reason I did for my vraks build, to avoid any waste of points
Hope they fix it fast

[fair oar]

If that's not a sign idk what is

[keen timber]

is pinning even worth it

[south portal]

the one thing I’ll say is technically it would make it so it’s easier to send more shooters ducking for cover if you’re throwing bullets down range, but people potentially may also not value this if they’re rather the enemies stay still so they get shot lol

[low zenith]

In my opinion? No. The reload speed makes desperado uptimes nuts.

But some people love it

[south portal]

Yeah for the autopistols spedloader blaze away just feels complete

[low zenith]

I used vultures mark so shooters don't hurt me unless I'm reloading

They are literally of no concern 99% of the time

[charred nexus]

whats your crit rate like?

[south portal]

I get that but that’s the difference between “collat doesn’t do anything” and “collat doesn’t do anything for my build” ykwim

[low zenith]

Lemme go check rq

[exotic pumice]

Is Powderburn a good blessing on Uzis ?

[keen timber]

yeah but the specific words that were said are "Collat doesn't do anything unless you run pinning fire" ergo, doesn't do anything

[exotic pumice]

Dunno what else to pick other than mandatory speedloader

[low zenith]

I mean, I guess you CAN run depdency with desperado but it doesn't feel all that impactful to get desp more often when pickpocket and vultures exists to give you a 100% uptime of a lesser desperado because it does the same things collectively

Just in an inferior way

[south portal]

I’m not sure what your point is

[trim wind]

pinning / blaze away

[keen timber]

he's already clarified when it does and doesn't matter

ergo, it does something for your build if u using pinning, and doesn't do anything for ur build if u dont

[low zenith]

He's saying that the benefit to shooters not attacking you is there

[keen timber]

that's literally what volk already said

desperado makes them not damage u anyway

[south portal]

And my point was that there is one other condition that makes collateral valuable

[keen timber]

literally doe snothing

[low zenith]

I think the way they're building is flawed if that's a consideration but

[bronze glade]

No

[low zenith]

They have a point

[bronze glade]

Half the enemies in the game don't even get suppressed

[south portal]

it shouldn’t move the needle for most people, I would hope. it is worth considering in an academic way tho, at least imo. I enjoy thinking about that kinda stuff for buildcrafting

[low zenith]

1/3 - 1/5 bullets averaging at 1/3.5

[exotic pumice]

Huh

Well shit

[low zenith]

Yeah yeah, I do consider these things. I just find their effectiveness doesn't really matter once you test it and the findings come back the way they did for me tho.

In every single instance I would take the slight increase to sprint speed to keep my current desperado up longer, as well as the dodges to make crusher and boss dancing easier

[south portal]

At a certain level of play shooters aren’t really much of a concern anyway considering how many different tools across rejects we have to counter them. collateral isn’t some golden bullet and the only way we can interact with shooters obviously lol

[low zenith]

When that little purple thing don't go below 50% unless I reload, I just feel collat is useless if you use vultures

[south portal]

yeah for sure. I wouldn’t bother with it in general anyway

I don’t like enemies ducking away from my bullets

[kind mist]

Even at 80 collateral you aren't getting pinning stacks without spinshotting or hitting hordes.

[low zenith]

The suppression on kill is amazing, but I don't care for the stagger

[livid raven]

at a certain level of play shooters are quite literally the most dangerous enemy

[low zenith]

I mean, you do shoot into hordes with it a lot so it's still good for that

[low zenith]

This is absolutely the case in havoc. Gunners, shooters, and crushers are absolute game enders and hive scum fits very well into the meta in how it completely trivializes the most pressing part of that equation

[eternal crag]

chainaxe ay good on scum ?

or stick with shivs

[bronze glade]

Yeah

[novel quest]

are we playing the same game? oftentimes shooters are priority no.1, especially when you're in damnation and above

[bronze glade]

I mean tbf any weapon is good with rampage adren

[south portal]

I even included the language “Considering how many different tools across rejects we have to counter them” for you to gracefully ignore. yes gunners and shooters suck in havoc. you have plentiful tools to interact with that aspect of play was my point

[odd jetty]

Do people like the Shivs? I feel like the range of them is super short

[bronze glade]

I've come around to them

[south portal]

collateral isn’t the only thing in the game that allows you to meaningfully interact with shooters was my point

[bronze glade]

They're pretty funny

[novel quest]

they're kinda meta for hive scum exclusive melee im ngl

[sturdy linden]

I mean, it's a knife, it'll naturally have shorter range than a sword. That said, the shivs absolutely fuck

[novel quest]

they really do

[eternal crag]

they have tons of potetial

[sturdy linden]

they're good on Despacito builds too

[versed spruce]

If your only use for the uzis is to be a suppression stick and to kill squishy disablers on a rampage build, I don't see why not

[manic kernel]

The real danger that shooters pose is that they massively reduce the amount of area that players can move around in, since moving into gunner fire is a sure fire way to die in havoc for the majority of classes.

[novel quest]

barely any of the enemies can be supptessed

[versed spruce]

I don't personally know if they suppress that much in the first place vs. a brauto or cshotgun but worth considering

[manic kernel]

I think that alone makes them the single most dangerous enemy in the game by just denying player mobility.

[novel quest]

powderburn kinda loses its value cuz of that

[versed spruce]

All ranged enemies can

[low zenith]

In my havoc 40 build I posted earlier, my shivs literally don't have maxed out blessings or perks because they're so useful as a dot applicator and mobility tool that I've consistently forgotten to upgrade them because they feel -that- good that I constantly just assume they're maxxed

[odd jetty]

The Taxe just seems perfect for the scum. Super fast, good critical, chews through armor as well

[low zenith]

No other weapon has EVER done that for me

[eternal crag]

defeces or mobility

which do yall prefer to dump o the chai axe

[novel quest]

defences on chainaxe

[charred bronze]

what build are you using them with?

[south portal]

do you prefer higher sprint speed or lower sprint and push costs

[eternal crag]

A SHAME REALLY

[versed spruce]

Being able to instantly make an entire line of far off ranged enemies cower for like 5 seconds or run away is definitely valuable while approaching

[novel quest]

mobility isn't a bad dump either

[versed spruce]

On a Desperado build, yeah don't even bother

[eternal crag]

im goig to snag it

[keen timber]

just triggered a daemonhost in auric mael

cant believe i just did that

walked STRAIGHT into it

[south portal]

just kill it forehead

[eternal crag]

[keen timber]

we did

[ashen basin]

so do yall think a reworks coming?

[keen timber]

i walked off the map though

[south portal]

for… what?

[sturdy linden]

the class released 4 days ago, chill

[low zenith]

This is what I was using at the time @charred bronze. It's not meta, but it works very well for me and I'm always tuning. There's some stuff I posted below it for weapons and such

[keen timber]

rework? god no, small changes to stuff like pickpocket? surely

[novel quest]

ITS BEEN LESS THAN A WEEK

MY FRIEND

[eternal crag]

guessinng mk iv is the way to go with the chaxe

[odd jetty]

Maybe, they seem a little OP

[south portal]

People like both, go with what you prefer

[versed spruce]

Wdym, infinite ammo alongside an infinite ammo ability is totally balanced

[ashen basin]

sorry i asked a question 😁

[dim moth]

this reminds me of the For Honor community who call every change to a character a rework

[novel quest]

this is actually what I have no clue about. I think I've seen people run Mark III?

[eternal crag]

i do like high damage heavies

[low zenith]

Me casually fundamentally breaking the game with tiandi and centurion :3

[sturdy linden]

you know the saying, ask stupid questions...

[charred bronze]

oh for sure. I don't think there is an established meta yet. More data points are always welcome. You said dot application. You don't use the tox perk that adds a stack?

[eternal crag]

ignorace is bliss

[sturdy marsh]

I never realized how much I dislike bulwarks

[dim moth]

tiandi only fundamentally broke the game one time during the early access period for marching fire

which was a kind of lame way to break the game

[charred bronze]

it's required to enable the playstyle. I don't see them nerfing that tbh

[ashen basin]

why are you hating me for asking for your opinion? holy shit some ppl

[grand jewel]

[dim moth]

dodge light had 0ms guardbreak vulnerability so you could do it on reaction to guardbreaks

[low zenith]

Remember when Hitokiri came out? I carry the KD world record in that game lolll

[south portal]

They’re both good it’s just if you prefer not sticky lights or not is really where people tend to fall in liking one chaxe over the other

[dim moth]

yeah and they were bottom tier dogshit

[novel quest]

I do hope Pickpocket gets a nerf because having theoretically infinite ammo seems entirely pointless anyway

[dim moth]

think I died to that character a grand total of 2 times before they got buffed

[bronze glade]

XII is generally better

[versed spruce]

100% ranged gameplay should not be an intended function imho

[sturdy linden]

which is the chaxe that has horizontal lights

[versed spruce]

Just give it a lil cooldown and I'd be fine with it

[amber sundial]

Psyker exists we should remove that then

[low zenith]

I mean he's one of, if not the best duelist rn

[amber sundial]

no more psyker

[low zenith]

His kit is too effective at controlling fights

[south portal]

Neither, but the XII is diagonal lights

[bronze glade]

Agreed

[sturdy linden]

ah

[ancient basin]

auric is a nightmare today, so many people just folding to a single pox bomber

[versed spruce]

Even psyker should be pulling out melee, and I never said psyker was balanced

[sturdy linden]

guess I'll try the XII then

[versed spruce]

I want inferno staff removed

[south portal]

I want my MTV

[ancient basin]

5 games, all 5 I was left alone to try and solo clutch

[amber sundial]

They will be balanced when they’re gone

[bronze glade]

Headtaker slaughterer. It's a beast

[novel quest]

yeah like 10sec I think, since the weapons it's intended for go thru ammo pretty fast

[ancient basin]

once and awhile is fine but every game?

[sturdy linden]

does chaxe have good crit / finesse?

[low zenith]

Nah, just toss all three knives at a troublesome boss and get them back in my own time. It provides enough damage to kill MOST bosses with what little ammo I have

Literally only use them for monsters

[novel quest]

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-super-truth-nova-truth-meme-gif-16889273424352737553

[eternal crag]

perks yall recommed for chaxe ?

the one i sagged ad consecrated got bloodthirsty ad letter, with flak

[charred bronze]

Based on what FS has said in the run up, it's the stated intended playstyle for desperado scum, don't know what to tell you. They wanted something truly different. If anything, I see them changing the damage drop offs on autos to force scum into closer contact with enemies before they nerf the ammo.

If you make scum want to vacuum up all the ammo, it creates a worse experience for all the other classes

[manic wolf]

Man there are a lot of floor inspectors in Auric tonight

[novel quest]

HELLO FLOOR

[odd jetty]

They should give the Hive Scum the Dueling Sword.

[manic wolf]

Begone, thot

[eternal crag]

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-what-is-the-flop-everybody-do-the-flop-dance-dancing-gif-16110772

[south portal]

Chaining special kills on the chase sounds miserable tbh

[mighty belfry]

Poxbomber or burster?

[sturdy linden]

I crashed in a game, reloaded into it to find 2 guys dead and 1 bleeding out and the entire area on fire

I was gone for maybe 90 seconds tops

[low zenith]

People keep flip flopping on whether or not Hive Scum is OP or the weakest class in the game and I think it's fucking hilarious

[eternal crag]

https://tenor.com/view/혼파망-피자-당황-community-chaos-gif-16635574

[low zenith]

It's like they keep parroting the shit they're fed

[ancient basin]

both, but the gas bombs are particularly egregious

[sturdy linden]

because they do

[amber sundial]

Folding to a pox bomber gotta be the worst way to go

[charred bronze]

it's almost like it's a heavily skill and knowledge dependent class that will feel like garbage to most people and like gods to the people who can play at a high level

[sturdy linden]

can't think until my Youtuber feeds me my daily bowl of engagement slop

[bronze glade]

Headtaker slaughterer

[jovial tiger]

Weakest is soldier

[charred bronze]

sienna feels tbh

[manic wolf]

Sounds about right. Last game I was in I cycled through FIVE players, all of whom died either multiple times or left upon death. I have never had to clutch so many times in one game, i think ever. And these people were Vets an Psykers ¬.¬

[south portal]

This is always the funniest thing. Like the team couldn’t stay upright for a minute while I was away? really?

[ancient basin]

yeah, they just ignore them as they cause the entire map to be filled with gas

[mighty belfry]

Because there's genuine reason as to why people are folding to bursters more than usual.

[charred bronze]

I expected psyker to be that class, but here we are

[ancient basin]

makes me want to scream and punch them in the head

[eternal crag]

my thoughts, hive scum is a glass canon with a high chance of survival as log as you can dodge the big thigs,

[amber sundial]

Weakest class is psyker because they can kill themselves on demand

[south portal]

i see this as a positive

[novel quest]

I had this bug happen to me and when I came back, I had 70% corruption and the whole area was on fire and my teammate immediately got downed to a poxburster

[chrome cloud]

Aight! i have to ask again. ive done a few more runs and i have still yet to get any progress in Stimmed and Alchemist with Chemical Dependency. I have let it fall off, ive set it up for 4 stacks and 60 seconds. ive gone from 4 to 1 many times. where is my fuck up here?

[jovial tiger]

I say that makes them the strongest

[keen timber]

vet can also do this

[novel quest]

I swear I feel like without me, entire team just falls apart

[charred bronze]

read something about burster aoe being made larger? I definitely have been having more trouble with them

[mighty belfry]

What's the cooldown on your stimm

[low zenith]

Weakest class is dog because they aren't even used by most arbitrators 😔

[manic wolf]

Oh dear. Im scared.

[novel quest]

half of the squads I play with CANNOT stand on their own two feet without being put into my backpack😭💔

[real dew]

Mood

[amber sundial]

Two smykers 😭

[mighty belfry]

That. They're also throwing themselves from further away and not blowing up more frequently when pushed.

[eternal crag]

is that fuckig cylon

[manic wolf]

If they do down, they die

[charred bronze]

puglife. I'm in a lot of runs like that, and I'm not a god. Most people are of middling skill, as you'd expect from a general population

[mortal meadow]

I just ran an AuMael and carried.

Can confirm, like maybe 8 total people know how to play HS properly.

[sturdy linden]

I am a dog lover, even though Douglas is pretty OP

[manic kernel]

Veteran, psyker defintely outperform hive scum.

Hive scum is competeing more with the other classes

[charred bronze]

honestly, bursters are, by far, the least fun special to me. At least you can potentially recover from bad nets. A bad burster is a run ender

[mortal meadow]

Psyker is the most OP out of box. Vet is built very OP

[low zenith]

I love dogs, so I .... Leave mine at home so he can be safe and enriched by brutalizing black site arrests for 'training purposes' while I do all the wetwork

[dim moth]

yeah psyker with their infamously miserable leveling experience

[exotic pumice]

By the way

[novel quest]

this is fr how it feels, it's so annoying

[jovial tiger]

Ogryn rock still the best skill in the game no amount of custom stims or boomsticks can change that

[mortal meadow]

Yeah they are pretty miserable to level.

Ogryn just feels underpowered to me im not even gonna lie.

[exotic pumice]

Stimm Supply's corruption cleansing side-effect is not working

[mighty belfry]

Hive Scum is a skill check a lot of people are failing.

[charred bronze]

eh, arbites is good at everything, gets access to top weapons immediately, and is durable from the start and just gets more durable. By far the least blessing dependent class too. Psyker is a top class with good gear and talent selection at top level play. Anyone can do at least okay on arbites

[mortal meadow]

Arbites I do admit, is up there. Probably second most powerful.

[amber sundial]

How so?

[mighty belfry]

Not quite. Their carapace and unyielding damage is kinda lacking

[mortal meadow]

Noooo. I rock dog and the moment my doggo gets onto a monstros its game over for em

[novel oracle]

if by not working you mean working just fine then yeah its not working

[low zenith]

My thrust crusher dogless build can kill as fast as a branx ogryn

[novel quest]

telling Asmon to shower is like telling Nurgle to die so it's not far off

[bronze glade]

ASM exists and they can get 50 percent bonus boss damage

[charred bronze]

I will say that, after a week of consistent scum play, I felt like an insane juggernaut after going back to zealot. Unkillable murder whirlwind

[bronze glade]

Rashad arbi is also stupidly powerful

[mortal meadow]

How to play HS for newbies:
Dodge
Dodge
Dodge
Actually play like a tweaker rather than a fucking organized caglarper.

[low zenith]

Reason I use crusher over rashad is horde clear is jank with rashad... It also isn't as thematic. But it was definitely an idea I had once

[thorny ginkgo]

IM SCUMMMING

[mortal meadow]

not bad scummer

[novel oracle]

HEY

[jovial tiger]

I need to play ogryn again I've just went back to bubble psyker cause I got tired of the HS4 mans

[low zenith]

"Do not scum. Do not scum."

"I'm gonna scum"

[charred bronze]

but it's not bad, and there are tools/tactics to improve it. Swing combos, dog usage, blah blah

[amber sundial]

Name stolen

[thorny ginkgo]

HELLO

[charred bronze]

You may scum now

[novel oracle]

WHAT THE FUCK THAT WAS MY THING

[amber sundial]

Cole noticed

[novel oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/pato-meme-yo-culpable-señalar-gif-10642603499301365171

[thorny ginkgo]

wdym???

[mortal meadow]

Anyway.
I tried a havoc 40 today and all I got was HS mains.

[novel oracle]

IM LOCAL CARTNITE PLUG

[amber sundial]

You stole his scum name

[thorny ginkgo]

WAIT THATS U

[novel oracle]

THATS MY THING

[novel oracle]

YES

im the og

[thorny ginkgo]

LMFAOOO

[mortal meadow]

If yall don't know, with H40 I just deadass kick hive scum or not even accept their requests at all.

[novel oracle]

that name i made before the annoucement of hive scum

[mighty belfry]

True but it isn't one of arbitrators strong points. Which admittedly is keeping it more on the balanced side now, gratefully so.

[novel oracle]

just like with BaneOfTheHomeless with arbites

im the original of that one too

[low zenith]

I remember that one

[novel oracle]

i saw a lot more copies of that one

[amber sundial]

I can confirm he had the name before hivescum released

[exotic pumice]

Dropped it at the foot at someone with a partially - as in 3/4ths - corrupted healthbar and it wasn't cleansing it - tried it again and it worked just fine. It's selective for some reason.

[low zenith]

True....That one was hella popular

[mighty belfry]

I'm getting too many people trying to double up on Hive Scum in havoc lol

[novel oracle]

but LocalCartnitePlug is way too specific of a joke

[mortal meadow]

I'm STOPRESISTING

[rose flax]

Ffing discord on mobile, no point of replying to stuff in notifications

[amber sundial]

Were you trying to heal past a wound?

[mortal meadow]

Two is way too much. Three you're fucking insane. All four? Good luck getting past first checkpoint.

[mighty belfry]

Like you already don't want multiple of the same class for Havoc in most cases.

[novel oracle]

a crate scum in a blight mission is goated

[mighty belfry]

But Hive Scum is particularly antsy about that.

[novel oracle]

and ranged scum with a good build is OP as fuck

[sturdy linden]

I'm not putting a toe in Havoc till HS fotm dies down by a bit

I'm good

[mortal meadow]

crate scum im blight is so good

[broken moss]

one day I'll break 1 mil raw

[low zenith]

I've done a havoc 37 with 4 hive scum, but it was incredibly hectic

[sturdy linden]

don't need to pop a vein

[toxic dagger]

What does that mean anyway?

I think the only word that I understand in that name is "Local"

[low zenith]

The cartnite lore is deep, Hank. Save yourself the burden

[mortal meadow]

You CAN do it. As I said, its like only 8 people in the world can play HS without being toddlered.

[novel oracle]

plug is just your hookup for xyz drug

[rose flax]

Ah, I had a feeling that wasn't working whole dodge crouching
I thought you meant it was broken in general though, thanks for telling me

[novel oracle]

dealer is a banned word cuz drugs

[limber cradle]

Ik these bastards are cut with delta

[toxic dagger]

Oh it's an American joke that I'm too European to understand, I see

[charred bronze]

I leveled adrenaline. I fucking love it with the tax axe now. Knife swing speeds, rashad axe damage after all your buffs are flowing. It's wonderful.

I should go back to a desperado build, see how it is

[novel oracle]

plug is more slang so it slipped by

[low zenith]

This feels more and more true every day I play the game....

[toxic dagger]

Thanks

[mighty belfry]

Plus I have tried having multiple hive scum in my lobby before

[versed spruce]

A small cooldown definitely wouldn't encourage that behavior any more than glugger or gunker encourages monkeys with bad ammo conservation skills to gobble down all the ammo tbh

[low zenith]

All my friends are strugglin' with this class

[novel oracle]

dont fall for the chem depenency meme

[versed spruce]

I don't think holding players accountable for stupid use of resources is a bad thing

[mighty belfry]

It's not fun immediately being the last one alive because the others don't know what coherency is lol

[mortal meadow]

I looked at all the builds and just made my own to carry myself solo if needbe and it works really good.

[rose flax]

Wait, stim supply doesn't even heal corruption past wound?

[novel oracle]

yes??

[amber sundial]

Can’t wait for you to be the reason it’s banned

[toxic dagger]

I just played a CIVI with 2 random scums in my team and they did fine. If my Maelstrom publets can play it then the class isn't that hard to pilot.

[chrome storm]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lFt81Xt3H1nHc6IVx?invite=cr-MSxQRFAsNDY1MzcwOTI2

[amber sundial]

No ability does

[toxic dagger]

Nothing does

[novel oracle]

just like all sources of corruption heal via abilities

[amber sundial]

Besides in mortis

[trim wind]

no class aura or ability does

[charred bronze]

gunker wasn't even an 'official' build, and glugger was never intended to be mostly ranged, most of the time. They chose these talents and keystones for an explicit reason

[low zenith]

That's moreless why I run ranged spam no melee. Sure it doesn't put out as much dps but it's -VERY- consistent and -VERY- safe.

[mortal meadow]

Keep playing. You'll see.

[broken moss]

I tried CD once. such a pain in the ass to keep up and even with 100% uptime I'm not sure it's worth the effort

[charred bronze]

it's not like the other class trees, by design

[rose flax]

What about veterans med kit one?

[low zenith]

I be out here dodging 4 bosses and 3 hordes biding time to revive

[amber sundial]

Nope

[thorny ginkgo]

CD go crazy\

[rose flax]

Oh

[novel oracle]

the core buff of the keystone fucking sucks for this class specifically

[versed spruce]

Gunlugger has ranged talents, ranged ability, and ranged keystone
I feel as though it's just as ranged as desperado

[novel oracle]

2/3rds of the abilities arent even able to regen cuz of their uptime
and the last one doesnt even need it cuz the bottleneck for both its effect and regen is the stim

[versed spruce]

Scum has good melee options even for a ranged build

[mortal meadow]

My last AuMael I had to deal with 3 crusher waves and a bon. It was hell.

[low zenith]

I keep TELLIN' people run vultures but they don't BELIEVE me

[toxic dagger]

If your whole wound is corrupted, you need medstim or medicae full stop

[low zenith]

You must convince them

[charred bronze]

it's not. It's the Ogryn ranged spec, and you're encouraged to unload sometimes, but not all the time

[novel oracle]

thats havoc 40 too

[mighty belfry]

Adrenaline Frenzy lowkey goated for Rampage

[mortal meadow]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmm. People like being complicated.

[low zenith]

I know you're one of the good ones. I also run havoc 40 very often. Vultures desp ignores -all- ranged enemies in the game and people are super undervaluing that

[charred bronze]

they never said 'we want gunluggers to be shooting most of the time' the way they have with scum. It's a different design philosophy, full stop

[broken moss]

crit and tdr?

[rose flax]

I don't even see a difference in the abilitys bar either, what does it even do? Is it not the same as the curio ability perk?

[low zenith]

I used to be one of Hanks guys but I took a long ass fuckin' break from this

[novel oracle]

you can literally be the "i can move anywhere" goblin

[toxic dagger]

While this is true, Ogryn is baseline pretty decent at melee and doesn't have the ammo economy to shoot all the time. It's more meant to be like a 30-60 melee ranged hybrid.

[thorny ginkgo]

@novel oracle should i just run vultures mark over CD

[mortal meadow]

I have literally said "no fuck off" to SO MANY GUNNERS."

[toxic dagger]

But I do want to give some of that delicious free ammo to barrage

[limber cradle]

Volk is y1 OG, I remember dudes pfp

[amber sundial]

That’s sub nodes not the main keystone

[toxic dagger]

So gunluggers can shoot more gun

[sturdy linden]

do you use Pinning Fire or Speedloader with Blaze Away?

[zenith fern]

God damn, Taxe rampage is so damn fun

[broken moss]

you get tdr and crit based on stacks

[novel oracle]

on desperado 100%
it allows you to basically have desperado outside of desperado

[mortal meadow]

It is insane how much bullshit i've out-gunned with Vulture.

[mighty belfry]

If desperado, ya.

[thorny ginkgo]

thanks

[novel oracle]

speedloader mandatory on desperado weapons

[broken moss]

yea but I see no universe where you would take CD and not those two with it

[mortal meadow]

I hope Vulture's and Desperado doesn't get nerfed. That's the only thing im wantin'

[versed spruce]

I agree with this playstyle, I just don't agree with scum not needing any ammo conservation skills at all on any build ever as long as you take one talent

[broken moss]

like at least the crit

[low zenith]

Cole vindicating all of my build choices that people were calling 'weird' not even 2 hours ago

[keen timber]

i mean vultures ignores ALL enemies period no?

[novel oracle]

heres the difference
now think about it in terms of maintaining desperado and vultures dodge

[keen timber]

Surely that's weak right?

[zenith fern]

desperado most likely

[low zenith]

I feel like i'm gonna cry

[keen timber]

surely damage immunity is weak?

[rose flax]

Sorry, I meant the ability cool down reduction chem dependancy does by default

[limber cradle]

Tbf i said your build was perfectly understandable

[low zenith]

People can't read LOL

[alpine hazel]

Oh hey it’s the guy from YouTube

[lucid raptor]

is crowbar just poop or what man

[versed spruce]

Scum having good melee options to circumvent lack of melee speccing, like Saw, is perfectly fine enough to warrant not making ranged the 95% of your gameplay

[ancient basin]

nooo, a fake 3 stamina curio in the armory, I cry

[sturdy linden]

holy that's huge

[toxic dagger]

Pickpocket is out of line for sure.

[ancient basin]

only power 400

[sturdy linden]

I didn't even realize it was that crazy

fuck

[novel oracle]

it considers you in a dodging state from melee and ranged for 1s

[charred bronze]

why?

[novel oracle]

so overheads, gas, fire, etc dont count

but thats fine

[toxic dagger]

No cooldown

Mostly

[limber cradle]

Can you tell us what pickpocket was before this iteration? Did it just give you back 100 percent ammo for looking at things?

[mighty belfry]

It is literally infinite ammo

[chrome storm]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lFtcobAULrTr7wt0V?invite=cr-MSx3T1UsNDY1MzcwOTI2&v=17 thoughts on the crowbar? i like the melee bulid i have going

[broken moss]

yea if all you were going for was cdr that would be shit. but they clearly intended you to invest more points into that keystone to get any value. it's just not a one hit wonder like some other keystones. but even WITH those other two nodes I don't think it's worth the effort

[toxic dagger]

It's literally infinite ammo

That's just too good

[versed spruce]

Resource that lets you stay away from danger and hose things down is no longer a resource

For one talent point

[low zenith]

I thought the idea was to finally have a gun class. Also, it's not unlimited ammo unless you're good with it

[amber sundial]

Before it got changed it was 20% of your mag iirc

[charred bronze]

People need to understand. Scum have all these ammo talents because they're intended to use ammo almost all the time, and they don't want scum ammo dependence ruining games for OTHER classes. This isn't hard

[trim wind]

untrue i've run out of ammo twice ever (and desperado was ready within 10 seconds)

[versed spruce]

Back in my day, 15% reload speed CONDITIONALLY on zealot was one talent point

[livid raven]

it did put 20% of your mag inside the magazine

[lucid raptor]

it’s only not unlimited ammo if you’re bad at the game

[novel oracle]

was this about hank or am i validated

[livid raven]

so in theory you could be shooting forever

[limber cradle]

That might actually be worse tbh

[low zenith]

Et tu - most people who play this shit lol

[livid raven]

but it didn't really recharge ammo much

[broken moss]

vet survives

[charred bronze]

it doesn't need a nerf

[keen timber]

"unless ur good with it" translates to "unless u have two functioning neurons"

[lucid raptor]

heresy+ will have enough elites to make it easy to proc all the time

[alpine hazel]

I watched your double barrel vid in its entirety while inebriated, good content

[keen timber]

which to be fair is a high bar for your average darktide player i will admit

[low zenith]

Like I said.... A lot of people struggle lolllll

[lucid raptor]

it’s just broken

[novel oracle]

[low zenith]

EXACTLY XD

[broken moss]

it's one thing giving them a helping hand, and another thing allowing 100% gun use in a mission by way of infinite ammo

[sturdy linden]

I like that Cole's videos are pure gameplay

[charred bronze]

vet is expected to pull out their melee more often

[sturdy linden]

no yap

[keen timber]

well

[limber cradle]

Alright now insult him before his ego inflates too much

[mighty belfry]

Pickpocket 100% needs a nerf. At least a cooldown of sorts.

[keen timber]

i tried an auric mael on my scum

and died thrice

aggroed a demon host

and did nothing of value

[broken moss]

everyone should be required to melee

[low zenith]

I'd rather it be 10% of your ammo than give it a cooldown

[keen timber]

pog, perpetuating the stereotype

[lucid raptor]

you can tank demonhosts with one +3 stamina node and that stamina regen on dodge talent

[broken moss]

tide games, including dark tide, have always had heavy melee focus

[keen timber]

I can tank it without any of that bullshit

[chrome storm]

\i beg of you, plz do not lol

[charred bronze]

if you're shooting into trash hordes as vet, you're doing it wrong (minus recon lasgun ammo return builds maybe?). if you're shooting into hordes as scum, you're playing as intended

[keen timber]

i just fell off the map

[lucid raptor]

such is life

[low zenith]

The humble outcast engineer who is S tier in a good comp and F tier in a bad one:

[keen timber]

twice

[thorny ginkgo]

yall run hyper crit on desperado builds?

[livid raven]

i don't

[zenith fern]

bugged

[mighty belfry]

Don't

[thorny ginkgo]

kk

[livid raven]

it's not bugged

[lucid raptor]

hyper crit is not even necessary

[keen timber]

it's melee only

[lucid raptor]

shit just dies anyway

[zenith fern]

Oh right hyper crit only triggers on melee

[charred bronze]

every other class and spec in the game is. They're doing something different for one spec of one class, as they stated. They weren't super vague about it

[low zenith]

hyper crit won't affect a fire rate gun even if it DOES work

[novel oracle]

it does, but not as harsh as some people would lead you to believe like complete removal
i want it to be baked into a vultures subnode, where it triggers only at max stacks and the ammo conditions, and consumes max stacks to do so
then i think itd match the effort you put into it and itd still keep its identiy as an ammo printer
this also would come with the condition that vultures can stack from melee kills (its currently still only ranged buffs)
and maybe pickpocket not rounding up to 20%, but just giving a flat 20% ammo when under 20% so its not wasted by accident

[broken moss]

the humble desperado dmp scumbag that shits on everything in every setting

[livid raven]

doesn't it give 20% ammo right now

[novel oracle]

it rounds you back up to 20% if youre below

[broken moss]

yea and it needs fixed. it's too strong

[keen timber]

what perks do we like on curios for melee

[zenith fern]

The attack speeds for taxe is nasty, can briefly see in one frame

[keen timber]

im not sure i need more gunner resist because of the toughness regen after getting shot

[low zenith]

Tons of people still die immediately playin scum, which is exactly why outcast sucks solo

[lucid raptor]

pickpocket should give 20% ammo directly into your current clip instead of reserve, trust me

[amber sundial]

Vulture push changed into pickpocket and pickpocket lets you yoink grenades from your teammates

[livid raven]

M1 spam?

[keen timber]

carpal tunnel speedrun

[livid raven]

in my tacaxe build?

more like than you think

[broken moss]

you get 2 scumbags running dmps in your mission that have any kind of knowledge of how to play the game and you are removed from the game, effectively

[zenith fern]

must break your finger when playing taxe, mucker

[charred bronze]

I honestly don't think it does, because it's not for the scum, it's for other party members, and if you have a multi desperado group, so you don't end up screwed on ammo.

[broken moss]

yea but that's more a skissue than anything. I survive just fine

[livid raven]

i think it needs a buff

theoretically infinite ammo is not enough

[chrome storm]

youll anger the hive mind, carful

[zenith fern]

what about finite ammo buff

[broken moss]

just give em a button to press that wins the game immediately

[charred bronze]

what about it is too strong?

[livid raven]

make it an aura

[novel oracle]

if im gonna put it in comparison to other classes
pickpocket allows scum to outdamage purgatus psykers in havoc 40 reliably, which is the benchmark for "holy shit this shit is way too strong and OP"

[keen timber]

what about infinite ammo is too strong?

[low zenith]

I mean you could apply that logic to a lot of things. The meta for havoc 40 is probably still lynchpinned on a plasma gun dueling sword vet, who does more overall than a desperado hive scum. It's just that hive scum is -very- good at what it does.

[lucid raptor]

hive scum needs dueling sword trust

[tender forge]

Id prefer it as a required node

[lucid raptor]

[low zenith]

It's intentionally slanted to be min maxxed

[tender forge]

Instead of the +25 toughness

[broken moss]

everything. ammo is supposed to be scarce. not infinite

[chrome storm]

we could like....make it have only so many uses in a mission? idk that leads to issues of lower skill or longer matches losing its value

[hazy vector]

Why though

[keen timber]

per mission is a terrible idea

[hazy vector]

if anything, i think what shou ld be nerfed it is survivability

HS is not as glass as some people may think it is from the description

[tender forge]

I could see a support scum replacing zealot

[chrome storm]

it would be swapped up obv if it was like thatm but as i said, it seems like a poor idea

[mighty belfry]

Ranged weapons, naturally, are capable of serious dps, which is why ammo is as limited of a resource as it is.

[low zenith]

It does not, however, outdamage them in armor damage or utility against crusher packs.

[keen timber]

scum survivability isn't an issue though. vultures mark and despacito are an issue, but outside f that

[chrome storm]

brother, my crowbar bulid

tamk

[lapis raft]

they can just nerf other stuff or add downside to pickpocket. i think like 20% less damage on pickpocket and keeping it infinite ammo would be still fun for example

[ancient basin]

vultures is just a bit to weak for it to matter to me as a key stone

[hazy vector]

Vulture's mark is ok, why it is an issue

[low zenith]

Oh yeah, scum has a place. Desperado is insane. But it's hardly the strongest class in the game still.

[keen timber]

does nothing other builds dont do

[ancient basin]

I would rather take chem dependency for 15% crit

[novel oracle]

thats still 1 enemy and you have shivs with toxin throwing knives to compensate

[lapis raft]

i dont rly like the desperado build but also there being option for pure gun only setup is nice

[tender forge]

I was thinking stimm pack to replace anti goo zealot

Woth infinite ammo needler

[chrome storm]

u said surviability, i have offerd my crowbar bulid...soooo

[mighty belfry]

When you take ammo being a finite resource away, along with a player that knows what they're actually doing, it becomes very apparent that it's actually really busted

[hazy vector]

Now what truly needs a nerf it is chem bombs

[novel oracle]

being fully immune to melee and ranged and having 15% movement speed and 15% range damage and 15% ranged crit is worse than 15% crit?

[bronze glade]

Throwing Shivs suck. I always forget to use them

[chrome storm]

take advantage of the crowbar NOT one shotting

[low zenith]

The brittleness applies to far more than just that, and crushers and bulwarks are kind of one of the toughest cookeis in havoc 40 so it counts for more than that comment would imply imo

[vital tendon]

what does this tattoo say???

[low zenith]

I don't see hive scum full on replacing anyone else in the havoc meta

[mighty belfry]

Messelina.

[hazy vector]

Counter argument: HS only has 1 really good gun, and it is needler. Everything else would be considered garb age if not for infinite ammo

[tender forge]

Saint messelina

[vital tendon]

thank you

[tender forge]

Patron saint of atoma

[hazy vector]

i.e. what i am saying is that HS guns are ov erall pretty weak

[charred bronze]

vulture immunity is way more of an issue than the ammo, imo

[bronze glade]

Walt what

[tender forge]

Needler

[charred bronze]

by far

[zealous ravine]

the only gun the HS has is actually the dual stubbers

[novel oracle]

thats the exact opposite reason why i want it in a keystone
i want it in a keystone so it can both be locked into a ranged invested build rather than every build having infinite ammo just cuz, and also so you can make the keystones more interesting
like pickpocket is one of the coolest nodes weve gotten in a while, and its more interesting than any of the 3 keystones
why
why did we do that
thats the keystones whole job

[mighty belfry]

Ain't no way this is the hill you're dying on.

[low zenith]

^^^^^ This is 100% the thing, not the unlimited ammo

[sturdy marsh]

I wanted to try out the vraks desperado. Is Dumdum death splitter best

[zealous ravine]

think about it you can SPIN the dual stubbers

that means its s++ tier

[tender forge]

Im just making cursed options

[north crow]

pickpocket needs to be gutted

[tender forge]

Id like it as a subnode of adrenaline too

[north crow]

needlegun with pickpocket is a worse offender than DS4

[zealous ravine]

adrenaline subnodes are really goofy rn

[lucid raptor]

yeah retraining my brain off throwing knife zealot is wack

[tender forge]

32 stacks for like 1% ammo

[chrome storm]

adrenaline subnodes are indeed wack

[zealous ravine]

500 uptime subnodes on adrenaline

[mighty belfry]

Duel autos with desperado are absolutely nuts. Vraks infantry, also nuts. Shredder auto, nuts.

[charred bronze]

I don't mind it being locked into a vulture subnode, but I think it serves a vital function for the spec

[zealous ravine]

nothing that gives movement or anything cool

[lilac ermine]

Is adrenaline subnodes for extra stacks needed or is the toughness per second the best

[keen timber]

half of them just change how it stacks it's pretty lame

[zealous ravine]

yeah its so sad

[sleek grove]

my god, the fact that they haven't burned down the party finder it's a miracle

[ancient basin]

I take the toughness gen from adrenaline and ignore the others

[charred bronze]

but if it was so OP, wouldn't other builds be chaining to it just cuz? I don't see that much

[chrome storm]

should have stamina and dodge node upgrade

[lucid raptor]

make pickpocket a subnode off vultures, ammo pickup % scales based off vulture stacks and give it a cooldown

[bronze glade]

Yes extra stacks help a lot

[sturdy marsh]

What blessings were you using with vraks? Dumdum death splitter?

[zealous ravine]

idk if i'd take those but it would be a lot better than uptiem stuff

[charred bronze]

every other talent that was truly OP, you'd have people making jank af build choices just to get

[novel oracle]

yeah thats kinda the point
i just think pickpocket needs to require a bit more effort and needs to be more restricted to build type

[mighty belfry]

Yes. It is crazy good.

[chrome storm]

maybe give a dmg buff based on opponets nearby? like 5% x 4??

[ancient basin]

stacks on kill seems kinda pointless, as everything would be dead by the time you get your buff, stacks on crit is worded in such a way as to make me not trust its efficacy at all

[north crow]

pickpocket needs a CD at least

[amber sundial]

Only one changes actual effects of activating the keystone, the other 4 only change how fast / long it activates lol

[dim moth]

yeah pickpocket being a vulture's mark subnode sounds like a good way to restrict it

[hazy vector]

Yeah, and what would uzis be if not for infinite ammo? They only efficiently clear horde, using it on elites is very long and inefficient ammo wise

[dim moth]

you HAVE to be building for gun to get infinite gun ammo

[low zenith]

I still think a cooldown on it would lead to problems considering it's meant to be the gun only class like... Explicitly.

[zealous ravine]

yeah im ok with giving the melee build a little more dmg tbh

[tender forge]

Issue is how would you balance any keystones around that thing

[sturdy marsh]

I loved that gun on gunker, so im excited to use it

[bronze glade]

Nah stacks on kill is really good

[zealous ravine]

yeah its really sad

[real dew]

Managed to get bonesaw working, required some stat moving

[tender forge]

It would make all of the other keystones doodoo in comparison

[real dew]

talent moving*

[charred bronze]

it does plenty of damage

[chrome storm]

givng cleave and stagger bonuses would be nice

[hazy vector]

Calling picpocket interesting is a take

[low zenith]

FR. People talking bad on pickpocket like the main issue isn't just how needle pistol fundamentally works.

[north crow]

huh? rampage gives 50% str, not dmg

[lilac ermine]

Is anyone know difference of needle pistol modes?

[tender forge]

Shhhh

[ancient basin]

needle pistol seems really good at a glance, I just dont prefer it to dakka

[chrome storm]

were not alking baout that.

[bronze glade]

I really don't think HIV should get more damage lol

[low zenith]

I AIN'T ABOUT TO LET MY MACHINE GUN BUILD DIE BECAUSE Y'ALL WANNA STRAWMAN A NODE THAT ISN'T EVEN THE BIGGEST OFFENDER XD

[chrome storm]

were not alking bout that

[zealous ravine]

damig funny

[lilac ermine]

Just trying to learn

[bronze glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1335730201362960484/1447340940787318784/image.png?ex=6938964a&is=693744ca&hm=02120276c3c12c7fc5fed5a2dc530d2dde56cbefd750e4beabdaf873fdd9baac&

[chrome storm]

sry it was a misclick

[charred bronze]

the one thing saving needler from like, immediate destruction, is the slower ttk. Amazing damage and ammo efficiency, no burst. Great on monsters though holy shit

[hazy vector]

yeah, that's the point
If infinite ammo of HS got nerfed, then ranged HS will die b ecause his guns are generally mediocre (except needler)

[tender forge]

Ah nah my stance is to replace the 25 toughness node with ot

[mighty belfry]

They do just fine against any elites that aren't crushers

[tender forge]

Its a bad stance

[novel oracle]

cuz it is
if i said people would be spending the whole game shooting at low ammo on ranged focused builds a month ago would you believe me

[tender forge]

But a funny one

[mighty belfry]

They're not peashooters.

[tight musk]

Holy Emperor, fucking Daemonhost, massive horde, million bursters and a chaos spawn all the same time. Event is totally fair and balanced.

[tender forge]

I think all of the toughness nodes should be removed from scum

[lilac ermine]

Ok ty whats everyone using rn for these and how do I use it well?

[chrome storm]

what if an adrenaline node: "hits or sucessful dodges restore stamina"

[hazy vector]

Now, they are meh against elites, just ab out any other gun would be better, but it is compensated by infinite ammo

[novel oracle]

part of my ranged side changes in addition to those pickpocket changes are changing vultures dodge to be x% chance to dodge attacks per stack
and changing desperados ranged immunity to drain over time as a % chance to dodge ranged, but get restored with kills (no dropoff on restoring it over time like the duration has)
vultures dodge would work well with it cuz itll plug the gap of the drain so being invested into ranged and actively killing elites for vultures and killing enemies for desperado keeps the same survivability during the ability, but you gotta work for it

[low zenith]

"Nerf pickpocket" perponents cannot give a single good take on why it deserves to be gutted when I can easily point to something another class has that is effectively just as powerful. The big reason why pickpocket is a target rn is EXCLUSIVELY because it's uniqueness in how it allows gunners to be targetted.

We see crushers and bosses getting absolutely demolished and say it's fine

[zealous ravine]

stamina on hive scum regens extremely fast i would never take this

[low zenith]

But god forbid

[bronze glade]

I just use mk 6 primary fire. Secondary fire is whatever. Mk6 is a good sidearm for a melee build

[lilac ermine]

I figured out lol I use it on my rampage build

[chrome storm]

my thoughts are to allow for more pushes as needed and follow up swings

[mighty belfry]

I don't think it needs to be gutted. Just kept in check a bit.

[ancient basin]

yeah, crushers deserve death

[random shuttle]

The man of Gun-Mancha - I love this build. Just a simple Auric but damn just gunning it 95% of the time

[eternal crag]

THE GOD EMPEROR IS REAL

[novel oracle]

basically this

[dim moth]

yeah can you imagine if they gave the ability to have infinite ammo to some other gun focused side of a class's tree

[eternal crag]

AD HOW DO I KNOW

[low zenith]

I feel a lot of these are overnerfed, but I definitely think there needs to be more stam drain and immunity reduction.

[manic wolf]

Auric btw ¬.¬

[eternal crag]

Was given this

[dim moth]

cough

[manic wolf]

I have no fucking clue what this player was doing.

[trim wind]

im becoming increasinly convinced it should be gutted, but only because it would be funny to see his reaction

[dim moth]

cough

[low zenith]

EXACTLY. Like it's not as gamebreaking as people act like it is and a cooldown would make it pretty bad for 90% of the guns that synergize with desperado

[zealous ravine]

i forgot that existed

[dim moth]

nurgle's rot getting to me gotta go walk out an airlock rq

[low zenith]

ENSURING that it's a needle pistol pick and nothing else

[light wagon]

what are the diff between duale SMG and the og solo smg ?

[novel oracle]

id consider back off with the right setup gamebreaking
but thats just a rumblerspam moment

[keen timber]

one has a single smg and the other has two

[eternal crag]

duel is twice the stagger

[charred bronze]

I don't even think desperado is extremely op (we've seen worse by comparison. The months of vet supremacy early on springs to mind), but even if it was, I don't think pickpocket is the main issue

[tight musk]

Psykers can infinitely use the flame staff and kill hordes like nothing else in the game, but funny drug addict gets a little ammo back on every special/elite kill and everyone loses their mind.

[eternal crag]

also big ahh supressors

[zealous ravine]

hecking rumbler

[novel oracle]

i love 0 fps and not being able to kill enemies!!

[zealous ravine]

i'd personally make rumbler more about the projectile itself instead of aoe slop

[amber sundial]

Psyker will never get nerfed so we don’t care

[bronze glade]

This might shock you but psyker is busted too

[lilac ermine]

For the machine pistols is the brace mode do anything different like more stagger or less recoil

[mighty belfry]

Everyone is well aware that inferno is a problem

[zealous ravine]

its an actual projectile thats pretty rare it should be a bigger point of it

[bronze glade]

Better accuracy less recoil

[tender forge]

I think they should unnerf survivalist

[trim wind]

good point, we need dual rumblers

[low zenith]

Purge isn't as good as this at raw killing power, but it deals with shields and crushers so it's definitely just as powerful if not better for utility. The ONLY thing scum desp has over purge staff is range

[mighty belfry]

What stimms are you injecting rn to ignore that

[light wagon]

so basically the same exact weapon okok

[low zenith]

People really need to like..... Take a second and consider all the things every class does

[tender forge]

And give the bayonet the ability to run melee blessings again

[lilac ermine]

Oh nice

[charred bronze]

with faster weapon swap than actual flamers, no reload, and no ammo dependency, and when your peril gets too high, you become a living Ogryn big box of grenades.

It's fine, obv

[novel oracle]

oh so have you not seen the last 3 years of us all saying purgatus and soulblaze needs a sledgehammer taken to it

[zealous ravine]

its true we have to nerf inferno staff

[lilac ermine]

Its like one of only guns theres like recoil on in this game lol

[zealous ravine]

and make it not boring hopefully

[random shuttle]

Every class can reach up to 0.2% of Ogryn power. That's admirable.

[novel oracle]

we're just talking about scum more now cuz its new

[amber sundial]

Ogryn can reach up to 100%

[random shuttle]

Well duh. He Ogg.

[low zenith]

See, this take I feel is wrong because havoc 40 is challenging. It's one of the most challenging things I've experienced. I feel other things need to be brought up to that potential, and just give a havoc 50 or 60.

[manic wolf]

That has been a sticking point for fucking ages now. Purg needs to fucking die, ironically, in a fire

[low zenith]

You want to have modes where a class feels busted OP, and modes where you're fighting for your life regardless of your skill level

[random shuttle]

Havoc 60 is when the mission gives you 30 minute timer and if you fail it formats your PC.

[zealous ravine]

lets kill purgatus!! with hatchets!!!

[mighty belfry]

We do not need havoc to be a balancing post more than it already is

Please god no.

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/ol7yGypmcZA.gif

[amber sundial]

Every death decreases timer by 5 minutes

[eager reef]

i give up on scoreboard, nothing i do makes it not crash my game

[amber sundial]

Disconnecting bricks your whole pc

[zealous ravine]

while talking about havoc can we remove it pleaaaseee

[low zenith]

Havoc is the only thing to balance around because I can clear damnation overdosing on tylenol pm with grey weapons at level 1

[charred bronze]

in every game where they say 'we're not gonna balance around his mode' they end up balancing around 'highest levels of play' lol

Which is always the mode they said they weren't going to balance around.

[lucid raptor]

if you die in havoc 65 you die in real life

[random shuttle]

need help with scoreboard?

[mighty belfry]

Auric is a mess right now because of that.

[eager reef]

no, im going to baby rage and remove it out of spite

[zealous ravine]

if we just had a 6th diff instead it'd be awesome

[random shuttle]

Fair.

[novel oracle]

but the result of the path we've been down has resulted in normal board being baby mode cakewalk land with a free complimentary lollipop at the end and havoc being the actual challenging mode but in an unfun way because theres no other way to challenge player power anymore
theres no middle ground anymore
you cant mildly challenge yourself anymore without sweating hard cuz that no longer exists
its all or nothing

[amber sundial]

Readd sedition

[lilac ermine]

Purg and trauma staff are broken

[tender forge]

... do you have thr animation events?

[random shuttle]

Okay so Hive Scum is old news. Boring. Yawn.

[bronze glade]

We need an Auric ultra high intensity shock trooper gauntlet

[lucid raptor]

there’s a fix in the modding discord #hivescum-class message

[random shuttle]

What's the next class?

Surely Skitarii, right?

😏

[zealous ravine]

i just wish we had difficult ocntent that wasnt havoc

[mighty belfry]

And I wonder why when Fatshark insists on balancing around the end game content

[zealous ravine]

all the systems surrounding havoc are so hostile to the player

[low zenith]

We nTo us, yes. But a LOT of the playerbase are absolute sprgs who are hardstuck damnation. I feel you and a lot of the testers have lost sight of just how bad the community actually is.

[tender forge]

I still want malleus monstrum in normal auric

[bronze glade]

Ratling just to spite the admech fans

[eager reef]

you misunderstand, i dont want solutions, i want to be mad @tender forge @lucid raptor

[amber sundial]

It’s actually ogryn in a trench coat and disguise glasses 🥸

[dim moth]

shitarii and it's just a janitor

[lucid raptor]

understandable

[tender forge]

I know and isnt my help making you madder?

[random shuttle]

Ah yes, the Nyrgo.

[lucid raptor]

the WHAT

[chrome storm]

play heresy with 3 lvl 1 scum noobs

[eager reef]

wait you might be on to something

[zealous ravine]

hel naw...

[novel oracle]

there should always be a middle ground for everyone tho
thats what damnation used to be before havoc, and what auric should be with havoc

[tender forge]

Have you tried turning it on and off again?

[novel oracle]

but we've gone down a path of no nerf only buff

[zealous ravine]

just make a 6th difficulty

[keen timber]

auric being what it is now feels weird ngl

[manic wolf]

This is kinda true at this point. I voiced my concerns pretty loudly when dealing with Havoc for the first time, but I was shut down for saying bogus modifiers dont make for engaging gameplay. But I guess Helldivers buff/nerf saga has made developers phobic of actually balancing outliers, so they choose to make the game obnoxious to play by rebalancing everything else to be asinine instead.

[gray wharf]

What do you guys dump on crowbar. defense or mobility?

[tender forge]

A midpoint, you mean auric mael?

[low zenith]

The answer, therefore, is to change the way havoc fundamentally works by letting you select the difficulties you passed without hurting your rank. No decay. No resets. You unlock it, it's there, and you can enjoy whatever level you want with your friends.

[amber sundial]

Defense

[lucid raptor]

fatshark give me chaos wastes and my life is yours

[novel oracle]

we

[zealous ravine]

auric mael is like rank 16 havoc i believe? its not that high up

[novel oracle]

we've asked for this for ages but it hasnt happened yet btw

[zealous ravine]

unless its different nowadays idk

[novel oracle]

that was requested before havoc was even announced

[chrome storm]

attack power https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lFtcobAULrTr7wt0V?invite=cr-MSxMQUUsNDY1MzcwOTI2&v=17

[low zenith]

Asking for nerfs isn't going to help, is all I'm sayin'

[zealous ravine]

ughh idk why they dont just hecking fix it lmao

[tender forge]

It gives you 16 but its harder than 20

[broken moss]

auric is plenty of a challenge. as proven by the fact that I can't remember the last time I didn't have 2 teammates wiping on repeat. the 40 people that actually play havoc 40s are just on a different level with the game so that content seems dull. but that's sub 1% of the population.

[low zenith]

It's just gonna make more and more casuals fall out of the mode

[manic wolf]

More like 25/30, Havoc isnt hard till after 30, and at 35 it becomes a fucking ballache

[lucid raptor]

auric maelstrom is the only thing that makes me feel alive these days

[zealous ravine]

yeah idk how diff it is in havoc tier i dont rember below 30

[low zenith]

Because they can't make these builds we take for granted if their lives depended on it

[near mauve]

auric is more fun the worse your team is

[tender forge]

20-30 is sorta rough

[gray wharf]

Well damn

[zealous ravine]

im guessing the real difficult part of 20-30 is party finder

[tender forge]

Honestly 25 was about as hard as 40 when I did it

[lucid raptor]

havoc is “fun” depending on the modifiers but that garden+armor is so ass and unfun

[low zenith]

So .... We need to be OP, and there needs to be a way to make enemies completely overwhelming - and give us the ability to pick how overwhelming

That is the ONLY way everyone will be happy

[hazy vector]

Havoc has heavily scewed difficulty that enforces certain metas, so fuck that

[novel oracle]

yes it is, thats part of the whole idea of game balance
sometimes you need to lower one side of the scale rather than just lift the entire scale to attempt to make it even

[mighty belfry]

I do want to say, do not take people dying more frequently right now as a metric for how difficult auric actually is rn because the game's currently broken.

[chrome storm]

it has the stun/slowdown immunity so fire and bullets cant stop you. have fun rushing them :3

[lucid raptor]

if you have a static group you run with you can get away with off meta stuff but it’s hard to find that for most people

[zealous ravine]

everything would be fixed if we had a hard mode that wasnt abysmal

[near mauve]

game wouldnt be spawning 1000 crushers if every class wasnt 2 shotting them

[low zenith]

Again, you're not considering the lower people who are struggling with even heresy and malice.

[lucid raptor]

pugging here and in party finder u gotta run some meta shit it’s real zzz

[manic wolf]

Fatshark should honestly just swallow the review bombs and nerf characters into the ground because player power getting ever higher is exactly why Havoc is so filled with absolute bullshit at the higher end.

[grand jewel]

make right click charge a fireball, like fireball staff in VT

[broken moss]

why I stay away from it. I don't need to burden myself with iron enemies that regenerate health while trying to find clean air amidst an entire zone full of tox gas. that's just stupid

[grand jewel]

[zenith pagoda]

Honestly aside from bugs and lag havoc has improved, the modifiers aren't bullshit like healing and rotten were

[amber sundial]

Game should spawn only crushers

[chrome storm]

idea: play dice game to determine havoc modfiers for upcoming run

have fun, roll well

[novel oracle]

when power sword got nerfed early on, people were bitching and moaning left and right that they killed veteran, but if you look at it now its still one of the best vet melee weapons in the entire game
it just made it less oppressive vs everything else compared to before

[lapis raft]

ppl review bombing because of nerfs have brain damage anyway

[hazy vector]

I wish there were more modifiers affecting spawns

[mighty belfry]

We are. Because the constant elite/specialist spam that happens in aurics wouldn't need to be there if the game wasn't being balanced this way.

[zealous ravine]

if it can be made in a way that isnt similar to voidstrike it could work? idk too different from rn probably

[lilac ermine]

Is there havoc modifier where enemies explode on death and do explosion barrel dmg

[lucid raptor]

i got true survivor and will do a 40 with friends every now and again but climbing back up thru 30+ was a slog before

[chrome storm]

low-key would be easier that way

[limber cradle]

Ye Olde 7 Swing Power Sword

[chrome storm]

all plasma guns

[low zenith]

Sounds like someone didn't play back in the day tbh.

[chrome storm]

issue solved

[broken moss]

highest I've done was like 22. which was cake. but I only do em for weeklies

[amber sundial]

Plasma gunners and crushers only fr

[tender forge]

Uaaaag uaaaaagh uaaaaag uaaagh uaaaagh

200 mutants

[novel oracle]

i am actually
consider how easy it is to play all the way up to damnation as ogryn or arbites without learning anything cuz your kit and weapons just do everything for you

[eager reef]

i wish to complain about how much i dislke how pitiful the audio is on the guns scum has, arby shotgun is sex in comparison

[low zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/fnb-get-this-man-a-true-gif-25257480

[chrome storm]

and it rains bombers.....literally....from the sky

[zealous ravine]

i remember arbys levelling i won every single match from level 1 to 30

[amber sundial]

Every other bomber is a poxburster

[zealous ravine]

actually got bored out of my mind

[eager reef]

why do teh stub pistols sound like staplers

[tender forge]

Or the pox parade

[lucid raptor]

sefoni’s mode needs to just have infinite waves that’s the real content

[gray wharf]

Man I have not disliked a single scum weapon

[tender forge]

So much ticking

[chrome storm]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lFqGfFEXja-cyXaMl?invite=cr-MSxKZ1csNDY1MzcwOTI2&v=18 my live rection

[mighty belfry]

The game had its issues back in the day. Doesn't mean they needed to be reintroduced because the game keeps power creeping itself.

[broken moss]

easier to deal with. kill one kill em all

[manic wolf]

Yup, but they can review bomb and they will, no matter how much sense nerfs make

[lucid raptor]

give me 8 chaos spawns sefoni NOW

[tender forge]

Barrels and bursters

[low zenith]

I know ogryn hardstuck on malice because they're old farts with pensions.

[tender forge]

Bridge

[zealous ravine]

i mean we're past the class reworks so its a great time to continue fixing the difficulty

[hazy vector]

those still happen in maelstrom

[manic wolf]

"No nerfs, its a PVE game" has never been more common in gaming and it was a stupid take to begin with

[broken moss]

I really hate mutants. that and tox gas bombers

[broken bear]

rip my boots dont fit </3

[manic wolf]

Simply grow bigger feet then

[low zenith]

I never said no nerfs. I said nerf the shit that matters. Pickpocket isn't an issue. It's an issue because of vultures mark, and it's an issue because of needle pistol.

[chrome storm]

ok, so i dont usally do havoc.....is there something im missing? hoghest i di was like havoc 30 and it was fine

[tender forge]

My favorite was me being dead and see 200 ragers strolling towards my team

[broken bear]

too small shoe

[near mauve]

u dont balance around bad players the same way u dont balance around the top

[broken bear]

they are docs too so they suck in general to break in

[near mauve]

one is bad and doesnt understand the game and the other one is lobotimized

[zealous ravine]

"no nerfs, its a pve game" is completely insane lmao

[chrome storm]

theyre both the same person

[novel oracle]

idk why i say it anymore tho cuz it doesnt matter really
it wont happen cuz of the effects helldivers has had on gaming as a whole

[grave venture]

Result of the sole?

[sturdy marsh]

That is one of my biggest pet peeves when people say that shit

[low zenith]

People see the top, they don't see the bottom. That is literally Illusory superiority fallacy

[broken bear]

not rlly i think

[manic wolf]

I didnt say you did... it wasnt directed at you personally man lmao. Its just the state of the industry. Rather than quashing outliers and changing one or two values, they change values on everything that isnt that outlier, make more work for themselves and ruin their game's balance by doing so

[low zenith]

What you guys see as middle isn't actually the middle.

[zealous ravine]

like i dont give a singular damn if a game is pve or pvp i want it to be better

[broken bear]

its rlly fuckin tight around the top of my foot like on the arch

so

[chrome storm]

i think nerfs should be done last and lighter because it is pve, but not avoided

[broken bear]

i bought a new pair a size up

[lilac ermine]

Pickpocket is only thing keeping the class like a gun psyker

[broken bear]

ill just give these to a friend

[brittle sierra]

Pve?

Have y'all seen the barrel poppers

[low zenith]

MB, I just see a lot of people chiming in trying to cook me rn while I have a discussion with cole and figured you were strawmaning or something

[lilac ermine]

If psyker can have infinite ammo why cant one class do it

[hazy vector]

did it even have any

[chrome storm]

i worry about like....arrow head...that solid 4 moinths of cinstant weapon nerfs

[amber sundial]

Yes, old trauma staff users before it got changed

[broken moss]

the issue with PvE is that, eventually, people will figure it out. and since it's ultimately unchanging and very predictable, you can get to a point where you're just rigging the system.

[zealous ravine]

arrowhead is a little uh erm lost probably

[manic wolf]

Sadly, this is very much the case

[sturdy marsh]

The only change I think scum should get is we receive friendly fire. I'm not dying enough

[low zenith]

Don't let them know that aside from gunner immunity, psyker does everything but speed better than scum

[zealous ravine]

psyker can do speed better than scum

[near mauve]

better than everyone

[low zenith]

Can, but not really with the fire build

[novel oracle]

yes
it taught gamers that nerfs are always bad every time
and anytime you dont like any change like nerfs, review bomb the game until the devs fix it (or sometimes harrass them directly)
now devs dont do that out of fear of being review bombed which is actively harmful to them btw

[mighty belfry]

Psyker is an outlier that everyone knows is pretty busted though.

[manic wolf]

Nah, there is one thing Psyker doesnt have. Its not fun. Scummer is fun.

[zealous ravine]

psyker has the greatsword scum does not

[mighty belfry]

Comparing those two doesn't really work.

[low zenith]

TRUEEEEEE

[chrome storm]

ur pfp made me think of this

i love mitty....such a poor soul

[zealous ravine]

clearly unrelated

trust

[zenith pagoda]

Pick pocket is fine, if you revolve your build around ranged, and with bad ammo efficiency weapons like autopistols, it's needed. It's isn't that easy to grab on the tree and it still requires some level of skill to keep it working

[low zenith]

Yeahhhh... The state of Helldivers is really sad 'cause both the community and devs are super toxic with each other. I miss HD1 because it was actually challenging and it was balanced well.

[chrome storm]

cried watching it frfr each time

[chrome storm]

idk....im just kinda bored ig?

[sturdy marsh]

I like playing helldivers. But it's one of the worst communities imo

[broken moss]

it's not needed. ranged shouldn't be the only part of anyone's kit

[chrome storm]

like, whats new?

what there to chase

[sturdy marsh]

At least the online community

[low zenith]

That's what I'm sayiiiinnggg. It doesn't need a cd. MAYBE it needs a % reduction to like 15 or 10... But the real issue is that you can walk into 40 reapers and 80 gunners and not take ANY damage at all

[zealous ravine]

i just wish hd2 had more depth but i supposed i can just play edf6 instead

[livid raven]

it should be actually

[zenith pagoda]

That's literally one of the hivescums archetypes

[lilac ermine]

Yet psyker can come out of games with 0 melee damage at all

[broken moss]

I agree they need some way to sustain more than some classes but infinite ammo is too much

[tropic crag]

its partially a media literacy problem, people don't really get how they're meant to engage with a game and get mad when it doesn't give them a straight power fantasy

[broken moss]

flame psyker also has limited range

[near mauve]

psyker should not be the benchmark for anything

[livid raven]

ranged shouldn't be the only part of anyone's kit mfs when they play high difficulties with a flamer psyker

[mighty belfry]

I will die on this hill and say that the Helldiver's Sony fiasco has changed the PvP co-op genre and how it's handled in a really bad way

[zenith pagoda]

Zealot has a talent that gives you another life, I think hivescum should be allowed at least 1 "OP" talent

[manic wolf]

And infinite cleave.. ¬.¬

[chrome storm]

i remember 1st month psyker....ahhh such a long time ago

[calm aurora]

You should buy Solovair...

[broken moss]

all psykers do honestly. but scumbags can shoot infinitely across the map

[chrome storm]

wait

[tropic crag]

scum has alot of really really strong nodes

[chrome storm]

i can induce a panic

watch this

[lilac ermine]

Trauma staff has infinite range with the special and covers like purgutus

[near mauve]

ogryn can kncok trash mobs around on dodge i think all classes should have it

its only fair

[low zenith]

Again, strong disagree. The issue is the defence on the min-max high octane kill kill kill class. Not the kill potential on what is literally a high risk high reward gun playstyle

[grand jewel]

Vet can kill enemies, pls nerf vet

[near mauve]

also give a dog to every class

[chrome storm]

BOO

[tropic crag]

all classes should regen ammo and nades always

[winter tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-memoji-gif-23490017

mfw when glass cannon is made of glass

[lucid raptor]

now we’re talking

[zealous ravine]

fatshark isnt even willing to nerf psyker by this point

[winter tusk]

my face when when

[grand jewel]

who is glass

[low zenith]

Like I said, it just needs to be MORE glass.

[livid raven]

mfw when glass cannon without the cannon (we don't have an hand cannon yet)

[lilac ermine]

Since vet is support now give back the team grenade regen perk for vet..

[zenith pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-france-plankton-spongebob-france-french-gif-11939902761284878588

[chrome storm]

give me the bigger iron

[lucid raptor]

are reginald and tanner still fighting