psyker-class

[zealous wing]

then you might want the other ability called scriers gaze, upgraded to "warp unbound" for 10s of free casting

this one

[pearl nest]

done

time to test it

trying it in the meat grinder first

by free casting you meant lack of peril generation?

[kind jay]

warp unbound makes you not explode when you use warp attacks at 100% peril

it actually lasts 12 seconds

[zealous wing]

11.5s

[pearl nest]

do i go top or bottom path scriers?

[zealous wing]

10s extension on top of scriers built in 1.5s grace timer

depends what range you use, if you go assail, then melee, go top

if you go mostly staff, bottom

[pearl nest]

okay thyen

time for field testing

i thikn i just created an infinite loop

all the weaker elite enemies like snipers n flamers n stuff die just fast enough to my flames that its looping constnatly

cuz of the warpfire

im in the meatgrinder

boutta do field testing

[long saddle]

yeah that's common

[pearl nest]

field testing time.

[long saddle]

doesn't always translate to normal gameplay

[pearl nest]

ik

which is why field testing is important

[kind jay]

depends on density usually but its pretty easy to have scriers up almost forever

or have it available when needed

[pearl nest]

The bots are fucking stupid ;-;

[zealous wing]

do you want to join me and 2 friends?

[pearl nest]

account restrictions by my old man

i'll have to get him to change them

i'd have to xbox friend you

[kind jay]

welp this is my one no damage taken match of the day. time to facetank every burster and sniper

[zealous wing]

my friend is on gamepass, that work?

[pearl nest]

they playing Darktide through xbox or?

[silent frigate]

on pc

yes

xboxapp

[wind spruce]

Does anyone know the base revive time?

[zealous wing]

i think its 2s?

im not certain though

[wind spruce]

Nah its longer than that

[wind spruce]

@summer prairie @buoyant maple

[long saddle]

3 is base

net is 1s base

[silent frigate]

about 3

[silent frigate]

sent you a message

[buoyant maple]

1s for net
3s for ledge / rescue / revive

revive speed has diminishing returns (actual)

3/(1+0.12x)

[silent frigate]

KECK trauma

XD

[zealous wing]

i swear diminishing returns is gonna be six's trigger phrase

[wind spruce]

Yeah u saying in chat the other day that the third curio only gives ~0.2s was what triggered me thinking about it

[buoyant maple]

what

[buoyant maple]

no but this seriously just is

[zealous wing]

someone was arguing like crazy with six about gunner res' diminishing returns

[buoyant maple]

this is not multiplicative DR

[buoyant maple]

look at this urself and it's clear diminishing

[zealous wing]

accusing everyone of not knowing maths

then linguistic terms

was gold

well yes its just, that phrase brings back to that interaction

[buoyant maple]

multiplicative DR is not diminishing because 3x is effectively ~195% ur toughness/hp vs gunner whereas 2x is effectively ~156%

going third gunner DR is actually just better than going 5% toughness perk majority of the time

[zealous wing]

EXACTLY

they did not understand this

and refused to

[long saddle]

it feels wrong sometimes with 3 gunner resists on auric

it's just so tanky

[buoyant maple]

2x revive speed is usually enough (~2.42s revive) and noticeably better
whereas 3x for that 2.2s revive is usually not that relevant

[zealous wing]

we are in https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1042858500205846528 here

[buoyant maple]

however

I do personally struggle with that remaining 1 perk slot's choice

because nothing feel like they do enough

[long saddle]

I like block cost on vet

[buoyant maple]

I run +49% (17%x2, 5%x3) toughness, +21% health, x51.2% gunner DR

and then 3 perk choice left

2 can be slotted for revive but idk what that last slot is good for

block cost is rly not great in this game

I was considering corruption DR / health / stamina regen

but none feel like they matter that much

[cosmic cobalt]

genuinely buff every weapon bcr to 70% of current value and it will not be a dogshit option

[buoyant maple]

if block cost curio perk was 20% it would be incredible

I would actually run 3x block cost on basically every class at that point

[cosmic cobalt]

imagine if they buff block and pushes, remove running + sliding and reduce ammo reserve by 90% on all weapon, massively reduce ranged enemy

what will we get?

a better game

(vermintide 2)

[long saddle]

I was gonna say lol

not that I've played it but

[buoyant maple]

if they make stam regen not be paused by dodge it'd already be massive

actually that could be a talent in this game ngl

give it to vet left side

[long saddle]

vet getting the most w talents challenge: impossible

(to fail)

[cosmic cobalt]

right side is fucking stacked

[prisma nova]

Gunner seeds are a myth.
Meanwhile fatshark:

I really dislike how gunnerseeds just change the whole game into hide & seek if you don’t have a group to specifically counter them in h40.
I mean that’s more or less a reason for meta builds, no? Even rotten armor does not change playstyle as much as gunnerseeds.

Would love a more vm2 playstyle.

[buoyant maple]

what would u run as a 1-only curio perk (assume toughness, revive, gunner DR are out)

[wind spruce]

too many unknowns

we got CDR? class that needs stam regen?

5% health to not get poxburster one shot?

[buoyant maple]

2x toughness + 1x health, triple 5% toughness, triple gunner DR, 2x revive

idk what to run for that last perk slot

[wind spruce]

psyker? what combat ability?

[buoyant maple]

any class

only class I don't run this specific setup is og (66% toughness max)

I guess I could trade away a 5% toughness and run 2 slots for smth else instead?

44 vs 49% isn't that much toughness difference

[cosmic sigil]

flammer or corrupt resist?

[buoyant maple]

neither feel that good tbh

[cosmic sigil]

block eff or sprint eff then

[icy breach]

Go for 3 cdr, 2 toughness, 2 gun rez, 2 revives
Ez done

[thorn cedar]

Mind in Motion mentioned raaaah

[wind spruce]

This feels like a psychological fallacy

[buoyant maple]

I decided to go with 2x stam regen/cooldown/health depending on class

[wind spruce]

If you were already opting for toughness dont second guess yourself because 2 of something feels better than 1 of that something

[buoyant maple]

I guess?

but 5% toughness on its own is pretty small value

[radiant frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/raaa-scream-cat-angry-cat-gif-3592292592025331596

[wind spruce]

Yeah but so are all incremental gains

But anyway, idk what else to run tbh. Sniper resist or another health is like all thats valuable left unless you want stam regen

[buoyant maple]

I feel like double stamregen/health/cooldown is better than single of it + 5% toughness

[wind spruce]

I disagree

None of those have greater returns when theres more of them relative to toughness

[buoyant maple]

do I really wanna run a single 4% cooldown lol

[wind spruce]

it would feel weird thats for sure

[wind spruce]

im running two atm because it pushes me just above 15s rampage cooldown with 3ChD and Kalma V

[dim beacon]

i wanna post pics

how do i get perms

do i have to ask about black snape again?

[dusk timber]

Just talk until you get red name

[thorn cedar]

luv when ur near the end of ur cheese so u can just bite rite in2 da block

get to really revel in my true place

[cosmic sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-cheese-one-bite-jerry-mouse-gif-27668294

[thorn cedar]

me fr

[novel yoke]

man tf is this cosmetic, they cut his hair smooth off 😭

my guy looks like this normally

[kind jay]

dr wily lookin headass

i have the same hair and was also amused when i put that hat on

[novel yoke]

fr he went from wizard to middle aged boomer 😭

[kind jay]

lookin like mugatu from zoolander

https://tenor.com/view/zoolander-forbidden-fruit-mugatu-must-be-tasted-gif-1386037298771066285

[icy breach]

OI! Do not insult my gloriousness!!!

[kind jay]

waiting for fatshark to do the megaman collab so we can get some wily cosmetics

[jovial juniper]

Hold on

Grenadier Gauntlet

https://tenor.com/view/mg-mega-man-mega-man-robot-animated-absorb-gif-17556474

[fresh pike]

I would love a buster in this game ngl

[ripe obsidian]

It is deeply disappointing. Tech is my fallback career, and the parts of tech I enjoy mostly revolve around hands-on problem solving and design, not writing up another process document for someone else to follow.

The real sin here is that it's not symmetrical

[pearl nest]

i can make it worse and make yall suffer just by looking at it.

[ripe obsidian]

I mean

You can try

[dusk timber]

Why does every single tree you make always pick every single talent at the top

[ripe obsidian]

What do you count as meta in this case? Because I'd argue that both Shriek and SG have a strong place against gunner seeds, as do Shroudfield, smoke grenades or shredder grenades, Ogryn charge, Arby BtL or Alligator Stance, etc. Lots of effective ways to deal with gunners.

[thorn cedar]

theyre good talents bront

[dusk timber]

They did the same on ogryn 💀

[ripe obsidian]

Often the top of the tree is made up of simple toughness gen or damage talents

[jovial juniper]

They are good talents 🗣️

[dusk timber]

And vet as well

[ripe obsidian]

Funny, most vet trees I see are super light at the top

[dusk timber]

Look at this abomination

[ripe obsidian]

I see.

Yes, this is worthy of the Interrogator's attention

Question: does anyone know if seeds repeat? Like, if you have a shotgunner seed on an H40, lose, and go again, is there a higher likelihood that you receive the same seed? It often feels that way, but I know not.

@buoyant maple dost thou know?

[jovial juniper]

T-t-t-they are good talents

🗣️

[deft stump]

Monkey's paw curls, it for oggy. The rest get Sanic and co themed stuff.

[kind jay]

(i dont see the issue)

better curl a little harder

[deft stump]

(Even cursed tails and such?)

[kind jay]

id be down for that

[pale prairie]

Fucking god bless smoke grenades

[deft stump]

As the game steadily devolves into a mess of corruption and blood?

[ripe obsidian]

Here's a top-tier meleeker build. Make sure to heavy attack for that sweet, EP-boosted shock damage.

[kind jay]

bruh you can turn my psyker into rainbow dash and ill still have a good time

[pale prairie]

All I know is that I have been getting so many gunner and reaper seeds with the head parasite

[ripe obsidian]

Smokes are great. Way better than bubble imo. They don't get destroyed by heavy fire and picking them doesn't limit Vet's power as much as Bubble does Psyker

[deft stump]

I'm just going to back away.

[pale prairie]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

https://tenor.com/view/stop-whining-bru-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmmmmm-dog-whining-dog-whining-gif-17430511343641148586

[wraith sphinx]

Brainburst better on meleeker

[ripe obsidian]

That's part of why I have been screwing with Surge Surge SG so much. It counters gunner seeds harder than almost anything else with fuckin' 50%+ EE uptime and pinpoint accuracy, with goofy levels of suppression

[ripe obsidian]

You jest.

[kind jay]

besides, the game is already a mess of corruption and blood. if anything it could use more.

[jovial juniper]

It's going to be really funny because we don't really have bright yellow cosmetics

Apart from Chinese new year ones

[pale prairie]

Do they do more than avoid range fire? They almost seemed to remove targeting in general. Melee units would sometimes just stand in or around it listlessly

[dusk timber]

Dawgs also get fucked over by smokes

[deft stump]

True. But I do mean UI and such corruption.

[kind jay]

absolutely

[deft stump]

I guess if you like bloody fox ears and tail and such.

[ripe obsidian]

Initial explosion deals no damage and very light stagger, 10m radius
• Suppression radius (explosion): 15m
• Smoke cloud effect: 5.5m radius, lasts for 15s; disables HUD nameplates of allies; players inside smoke are considered 'concealed' which alters the line of sight distance requirement of enemies during target selection; if a player holds aggro of an enemy who is in melee combat, the smoke has no effect on enemy perception; if a player holds aggro of an enemy who is in ranged combat, then the smoke makes the ranged enemy stop firing and change positions (this includes Sniper; Reaper is less likely to reposition); Gunners and Reaper when they are inside the smoke cloud's area of effect themselves keep firing at a player's last known position; Pox Hounds cannot lock on a player who is inside smoke cloud's area of effect and will keep circling the cloud; Trapper and Flamers need to be closer to players in order to start their shooting action; no effect on Bombers, Mutants, Poxburster

[deft stump]

The 'nade itself hits for 2 damage.

[dusk timber]

Big if true

[deft stump]

Throw it at a random target.

It takes a very tiny amount of damage.

Like frag to face. I think krak does it as well if there's nothing to magnet to.

[pale prairie]

Six is in a faelike mood today

[deft stump]

Same reason why you lose a tiny amount toughness when directly hit by bomber 'nades. They are also projectiles.

[pale prairie]

My blitz did 19 damage yesterday on scum. Cause of hitting stuff with blackouts

[deft stump]

Direct hits, yeah. 1-2 damage.

[ripe obsidian]

These are the actual two Surge Surge SG builds I have been playing with. I want the PC one to work better, but it's just not doing much. PC is +5% damage, maybe, and Souldrinker has like 40% uptime. The non-PC/Souldrinker is light on toughness regen when in ranged, which is a little scary, but I figure you're generally swapping to melee when at risk of taking damage. Can also move the attack speed node to Soulstealer if needed for toughness on staff kills.

[ripe obsidian]

This is accurate. I couldn't quite say why. Maybe the leylines are aligned, or the moons are in the perfect position.

Sorry, moons? I meant moon. Moon. Singular.

[pale prairie]

Oberon

[deft stump]

SUS.

[pale prairie]

The correct answer is souldrinker when inferno present

[pale prairie]

No u

[ripe obsidian]

Souldrinker when Inferno or Shriek present*

[pale prairie]

Yeah agent having 90%+ was lowkey surprising

Uptime

[ripe obsidian]

Though the +10% ranged damage node should be more effective than Empyric Shock until you've made... 5? attacks at a single target.

[pale prairie]

6% per shot right?

[ripe obsidian]

Well, yes, but not until the second shot

And it's technically not a flat increase, but I am using the flat numbers because it's easier

[pale prairie]

Ahhh

Honestly a surge surge SG with a shriek inferno is probably an insane combo

[ripe obsidian]

With +10% ranged damage, 5 shots is 550% damage. With ES, 5 shots should be... approximately 560% damage? But 4 shots is 540% vs 536%

I had AI quickly make a chart because I am on my phone and can't make a spreadsheet

[dusk timber]

That is assuming no other damage increases are present tho

[ripe obsidian]

Almost definitely. They also shore up each other's weaknesses.

[ripe obsidian]

Damage buffs are usually additive, so they shouldn't matter

[dusk timber]

Isnt the buff from ES multiplicative tho?

[pale prairie]

Do surge procs increase the speed of application?

[ripe obsidian]

Oops, I am wrong for ES

The damage taken debuff stacks multiplicatively with itself, up to 33.8% (1.06⁵=1.338), multiplicatively with other damage taken debuffs on enemies from Enfeeble, Arbitrator's Nuncio-Aquila, Ogryn's Soften Them Up, Valuable Distraction, Veteran's Focus Target!, Zealot's Blinded by Blood, and multiplicatively with damage buffs and with power level buffs from weapon blessings.

• Kuli

My mistake

Fascinating

[dusk timber]

That should mean that with other damage buffs present ES would scale faster than +10% ranged

[thorn cedar]

Still barely worth it tbh

[ripe obsidian]

+10% damage node is:

Increases the damage of ranged attacks by 10%. Stacks additively with other damage buffs, and multiplicatively with power level buffs from weapon blessings.

[ripe obsidian]

It looks like ES, being a debuff, is more reliant on debuffs than anything else for scaling, which makes sense why it's multiplicative. I didn't think about that. So yeah, it potentially scales faster, but not overmuch

[ripe obsidian]

It should? But surge procs would also just kill things faster with +10% ranged damage

Losing PC is a not-insignificant amount of damage, but spread over a whole game in bits and bites, I am not sure if it really matters much. My last Surge Surge game w/ PC, soulblaze did 200k of 2300k total damage. KF did 250k damage, for comparison

200k being ~8.5% of the total damage

[pale prairie]

I guess it’s only worth into rot?

[thorn cedar]

Is it?

[pale prairie]

One of the few things that is still standing after 2-3 shots of EK LMB

[thorn cedar]

Yeah but you could still be using anything else.

[pale prairie]

Definitely

But Six when using a staff or sword has trouble switching to any other weapon

He has an Only Staff account

Or Only Sword I guess on meleeker

[prisma nova]

Well, the most popular choices have gunners more or less in mind but you still have to adjust playing against gunnerseeds. And for example shroudfield is a really really poor method to deal with gunnerseeds compared to chorus. It's just if you have a gunnerseed like I posted in a h40, you more or less play hide&seek until you have cooldowns or whatever to deal with them. Chorus to push forward, followed by taunt for example (I would also count taunt a lot more effective to deal with gunners than bull rush).

So Meta really depends but in general: Taunt for ogryn, shriek or bubble for flame psyker, chorus for zaelot, shout (or exec stance if really going for gunners) for vet, whatever for arbi and hive scum (while desperado is really good against gunners) - that's what I would call "meta" plus some choices against gunners.

[jovial juniper]

Running ES, pen flames, charged strike enfeeble Infernus because I'm bored

[ripe obsidian]

I am doin' better

See?

[wraith sphinx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/849407143429144596/1494698496656146492/image.png?ex=69e38df3&is=69e23c73&hm=18529e810b80462d06251310ba6ebcbe648dcff9446a5cd3e08f370e2158c184&

This always keeps happening in the immediate aftermath of a content update

I hate it

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/switching-weapons-faster-than-reloading-h3vr-hot-dogs-horseshoes-and-hand-grenades-vr-gif-8917745804672571840

[dusk timber]

H3vr gif

[pale prairie]

My only disappointment is that your highest oneshot isn’t even higher

https://tenor.com/view/fogo-more-star-wars-gif-13624709056817377234

[ripe obsidian]

I'm glad that people accept Shriek as meta now, but I fear it will lead to a nerf for my OP blue fire delivery system.

To address the body of your message, though, I think those defensive abilities are meta, for good or for ill, but often aren't necessary. I'd always rather have someone skilled, like Katze, on Shroudfield sneak into the line of gunners to kill them as opposed to a Zealot just pop Chorus and hope the team handles the problem. If it's a better Zealot who uses Chorus to shove into the gunners it's a little different, but then they're usually moving away from the team anyway, so the outcome isn't terribly different, they just take longer to kill the gunners in exchange for potentially suppressing them while moving. It's the eternal argument of mitigating a threat versus removing it.

Strong movement skills make gunners a significantly less dangerous threat, as you can infinitely dodge-slide for little consequence.

[pale prairie]

It really boils down to skill level of users and the cohesiveness of the team play.

Bullgryn charge in alone there is a good chance of them dying. But if the team actually capitalizes….

[ripe obsidian]

I would also agree that Taunt is better than Bull Rush in 95% of scenarios, not just into gunners, for what it's worth. But Bull Rush can be used well.

[pale prairie]

What if I rush into a line of bursters

Or a net

[ripe obsidian]

Or a line of purple ragers before the patch to make Bull Rush force-stagger every enemy

[pale prairie]

It’s a fun ability honestly

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/off-day-tangled-disney-doesnt-usually-happen-flynn-rider-gif-16271946

[ripe obsidian]

It was so sad to see.

[pale prairie]

“And then he died….”

[ripe obsidian]

The brave Oggy rushing in to stop purple ragers from getting to the squishy Psyker

Only to fucking die before the charge animation finished

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/no-frodo-lord-of-the-rings-hobbit-gif-3522494

[ripe obsidian]

In regards to Desperado against shooters, I'm sure it works fine, but I have seen maybe 4 Desperado scum in H40. A vast majority use Rampage or Stimm Supply. Mostly the latter into blight, but not always. I've seen some solid stimm supply builds that just megabuff the team every 45 seconds.

[pale prairie]

Yeah I am wondering if going a strength buff stim is better for supply but then the constant blight immunity is so nice

*Long cooldown strength

[icy breach]

Oh rush is more useful in many more situations than 5% believe me

[ripe obsidian]

Stimm supply is also kinda overhead protection, since it prevents instadeath by removing the 30% corruption portion of the attack

[pale prairie]

Oh fucking good point

[royal falcon]

the best way to resist nurgle's influence
copious amounts of performance-enhancing drugs

[deft stump]

Not with lag. You gamble sliding in since you can be shot to death in a slide.

[icy breach]

And once again i was correct…
You’ll only see melee scum in the wilds and occasional crate but still melee oriented
Thats what happens when you poorly nerf pickpocket

And ye; of all scum i seen in havoc… NONE used despy

[pale prairie]

Yeah it’s all tox or melee or melee build but only use tox for some reason

[deft stump]

Cos nerfed pickpocket.

[pale prairie]

It’s not fucing nerfed though

[deft stump]

You used to use it to get free ammo to chain into kill to get more ammo.

[pale prairie]

Played a game with a pickpocket scum who never picked up ammo and was running at 20% all game

[deft stump]

It is, ranged scum does kinda subpar melee.

Ask Hex, he saw me 7-8 hit things with a rashad on aurics.

7-8 heavies to face.

[jovial juniper]

With a Rashad

[pale prairie]

Just need one specialist or elite kill. Bring shivs and heavy something in the head

What the fuck

[deft stump]

I DID. Did you not read?

[pale prairie]

What was your build

Oh bee keeper

Stamina stacker

[deft stump]

Rashad 7-8 heavies to face.

[ripe obsidian]

I don't know. Taunt is an AoE stagger that ruins enemy AI, and it has an insanely short cooldown.

[pale prairie]

I don’t believe in an auric

[zealous wing]

combat axe is ass

[loud girder]

shivs 1 shot a lot of elites with very little melee investment

[dire wharf]

Reading is too hard

[deft stump]

As a despy scum.

[ripe obsidian]

Desperado was weaker even before the light pickpocket nerf

[pale prairie]

Use fucing shivs

As I said

[zealous wing]

and yeah shivs on ranged is fine

knife is fine

[pale prairie]

Yes

[zealous wing]

taxe ok, not ideal, but ok ish

[pale prairie]

Actually vraks5 is pretty nice

[pale prairie]

Taxe is amazing

[loud girder]

combat axe is meant for melee scum
its the strongest weapon last time i checked

[pale prairie]

What are you talking about Taxe being mid?

[zealous wing]

on a nonmelee build its just, there are better options

[jovial juniper]

10/10 bait
I like it

[deft stump]

Tacaxe scum is fun though. Is nice on ranged.

[jovial juniper]

[deft stump]

It's busted on scum.

[jovial juniper]

Taxe is not mid
Taxe is shit but that's a story for another day

[ripe obsidian]

Sounds like Path propaganda

[pale prairie]

Yeah I was responding to 6

Eh Caxe is okay but scum benefits from crit focus too much I think

That’s why Taxe and shivs and knife are good

[loud girder]

seen bunch of people posting vids of 1 tapping elite packs with it lol

[ripe obsidian]

Vraks + Desperado is strong, but it's not as strong as meleeker in my experience

[loud girder]

and i tried it myself

[pale prairie]

Well yeah even Mr. E realizes psyker is better than scum

[ripe obsidian]

I'm mostly joking because Path is or was a huge proponent of Rashad as the best weapon in the game

[loud girder]

i think he likes powersword more

[ripe obsidian]

I choose to believe it's because he witnessed my Psyker a few times. Entirely me.

[pale prairie]

He still is saying that shit right next to Psyker needing a 50 toughness reduction

[pale prairie]

Can I blame you then for him spreading info on wall hacking mods?

[icy breach]

Rush has short cd too & auto staggers everything it touches
Also it enables diving & better escape routes cause if you get cornered with taunt you die; with rush you can save yourself & others cause they follow the path you created

[pale prairie]

What about cornered by bosses?

[icy breach]

Nah it wasn’t; despy & pickpocket combo before enabled a playstyle ppl craved since the beginning; pure range/mostly range build with guns
Now its worse cause you have to go into melee so at best you are a hybrid… and we already have those & better

[loud girder]

u have to go into melee when you're fully out tho

and only to 1 shot a single elite

[icy breach]

It is; caxe is strong but… againts big mass you struggle

[icy breach]

Sometimes its easier said than done

[pale prairie]

Or special

[loud girder]

i barely felt the nerf when i was playing

[icy breach]

Thats why despy builds now are dead

[loud girder]

good

[icy breach]

And everyone plays crit rampy with tox

[loud girder]

now balance every single pure ranged build next

[stray shoal]

What are the Obscurus attack patterns for horde and single target

[icy breach]

So none

[loud girder]

psyker

[deft stump]

Old pickpocket is the only reason to run it tbh.

[icy breach]

Not all psykers are pure range

[jovial juniper]

Heavy light light for single targets
Don't remember for hordes

[stray shoal]

Thanks!

[loud girder]

u know which one im referring to

[jovial juniper]

I mean
It's is path propaganda but at the same time Rashad Scum has like twice the dps of a power sword

[loud girder]

also last time i played (couple of weeks ago) desperado users were still ruining aurics

if you're talking about havoc then blame that on havoc spamming 100000000 cara mobs while your guns tickle them

[mental rock]

Is it propaganda when it's the truth

Caxe is absurd on melee scum

[ripe obsidian]

HLL for single target. I think LH repeating for hordes.

[pale prairie]

It’s good I just don’t think it’s the best

It’s approaching things from a different angle IE just going high base damage with no crit focus.

I think the class is more built around going high crit so melee weapons with great crit mods are also amazing

[wind spruce]

Its only the best if you're hyperfixated on when bromentum actually works

[deft stump]

It is, once I took the same Rashad to the rampage build. Though shivs seem to do more.

[pale prairie]

Whoa hyperfixation in my 5k average player count 4 year old game?

[wind spruce]

Crazy as it sounds but most threatening situations are not actually horde + ragers or farming ranged enemy kills

[deft stump]

It's 30 crushers wallblocking 3 trappers and a congaline of silent bursters.

[pale prairie]

Ain’t no way all that is in an auric run /s

[wind spruce]

Shivs go way harder as soon as there's any cara, you're facing a montrosity, killing specials

[deft stump]

Crusher bit is less, but I see the other two in uprising and malice already.

Dunno what FS did, but 3 trappers in uprising...

Yeah...

[wind spruce]

And caxe DOES have shit cara damage if you arent critting

And you're at 15/20% with only butterfly to buff it on scum caxe builds

[ripe obsidian]

Just wait for Purple + Rot to come back. Unstaggerable 75% damage resist crushers healing their little rotten army while specials take shots from behind the lines.

[stray shoal]

thanks!

[deft stump]

But congaline of silent booms means wipe already.

[pale prairie]

Don’t forget how pathetic the crit modifier is

[deft stump]

Only thing alive is the until death zealot. At 1 pure hp.

[wind spruce]

Its fine its just not a knife, taxe or force sword

[pale prairie]

But that’s how I get 5 million damage scoreboards….

[ripe obsidian]

I've never gotten 5m.

Only 4.7m and 4.3m

[pale prairie]

Yeah but the really good crit modifiers on those weapons bring them into parity I believe with Caxe

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/droopy-cowgirl-swingshiftcinderella-sing-gif-878279795018232527

[ripe obsidian]

I don't understand why Fatshark made purple enemies functionally CC immune. Someone suggested it was a mistake, but if so, why wasn't it reverted? But then, this is Fatshark.

[jovial juniper]

The main theory is that the play testers just cba about combat Axe
So yeah it's propaganda with the playtesters being the target

[wind spruce]

But the issue is that shivs you're going to have an extra 40-50% crit rate and you end up doing as much single target damage, get all the tox talents, actually get a stim, dont sometimes not have CDR at the end of rampage, better mobility, better attack speed

So yeah caxe just farms horde and ragers woopee

[mental rock]

Playtesters too busy using tacaxe+combat shotty for the nth time

[wind spruce]

Not the best scum weapon.

[deft stump]

Also, can we replace smite with chain lightning as well? Like in Deathwing. Quick blast that staggers and can kill on lower diffs.

[jovial juniper]

I'm ngl
Lost faith on all playtesters

🚬

I know they are all good people and shit

But I just don't trust them anymore

[pale prairie]

So uuuuuh juiced up EK?

[deft stump]

Thing is, balancing the game on a bunch of good players is also stupid.

[jovial juniper]

Wait for when red Robes drop with their arc rifle and somehow it interacts with all the other chain lightning stuff

Despite having different chain lightning code

[pale prairie]

Yeah I am also curious if they just run the same builds over and over

[loud girder]

its not like they're actually in charge of making final balancing choices tho

its all up to da fish

[deft stump]

I forgot that needs a buff as well. GDI Fatshark.

[wind spruce]

The balance doesnt matter if you're bad

[deft stump]

Fatshark Fatsharking.

[pale prairie]

Oh is that why you don’t complain about balance?

Kek

[ripe obsidian]

The playtesting for this game confuses me a little. I worked for Bethesda for a while, like 10+ years ago, and did a little playtesting for ESO. It was pretty rigid. Like, we had specific things we needed to test, repeatedly. But I guess it's the difference between volunteers and paid employees. And between management that understands what needs to be tested versus letting people do whatever they want.

[mental rock]

I mean, balance kind of matters if you're bad, cause you can just use op stuff as a crutch

[pale prairie]

Watch it literally just be the same in the code

[deft stump]

Could also be that. Don't think they would playtest on the worst possible weapons just to show the stark diff on how BAD they are.

[jovial juniper]

I mean yeah
But they are also the middleman between us and Fatshark

[loud girder]

are they?

i get the impression fatfish does whatever tf they want

[pale prairie]

Yes but AFTER reading all the comments by playtesters

[loud girder]

if it's up to playtesters who constantly complain about power creep then everything would be nerfed to the ground lol

ill believe playtesters have any real power when like 50% of the cheese in this game is gutted

[jovial juniper]

See this is why I started saying "I wish we had playtesters"

[deft stump]

Because 60% of the weapons feel like they need buffs in a way.

[jovial juniper]

I completely lost faith on them

[ripe obsidian]

My theory is that a lot of the OP defensive nodes, like Street Tuff on Scum, were added to help lower skilled players survive. The game is very hard, objectively, and it's a big barrier to entry for new players. But almost any talent that's strong for lower skilled players is likely to be busted for high skill players. So Fatshark can either balance for the tryhards, like the people in this discord, or for the majority of the playerbase that chills on Heresy.

[loud girder]

is my keyboard dying wtf why am i making so many typos

[jovial juniper]

Really love the placebuffs

Amazing

Heh
Placebo + buffs

[pale prairie]

They need to just educate people better about how the game mechanics work. Played with a hivescum yesterday who had 15% crit DAMAGE perks on his weapons

[jovial juniper]

Heh

[deft stump]

Still think is better to pander to majority on some level. Power fantasies are why people play games usually unless getting hardcore stuff.

[wind spruce]

Its the same as everything in life - i, a genius, cant have nice things because most people suck and are the worst (specifically @pale prairie )

[deft stump]

Havoc already exists, but I think most people should be able to at least have a 75% win rate on heresy without being carried.

[pale prairie]

The real origin of some of these buffs I think is that they added Paid For Classes and needed people to buy and play them. Then in response to people complaining about how insane they were they just buffed defenses of every class to be the same level

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/box-of-shame-gif-9255466

[deft stump]

Problem of paid classes. Ppl expect pay2win nowadays.

[ripe obsidian]

It is. I am a big proponent of difficulty levels in games. I think it's kinda dumb that things like Elden Ring only have the one difficulty level rather than tuning it a teeny bit to give more people room to enjoy the game. I also strongly enjoy when games label difficulties some variation of "I want a story" versus "I want a challenge." It feels nice and inclusive rather than Wolfenstein's, "Daddy, can I play?" for their lowest difficulty. Like, fuck off, don't make fun of people who don't want to stress over a game.

[wind spruce]

She's your mother mitchell, dont talk about her like that

[pale prairie]

I am really curious what the class was like in play testing cause I heard rumors that it was balanced but all the playtesters screamed for buffs

[pale prairie]

She’s my mom I can say what I want

[pale prairie]

But that’s balanced with the variety of play strategies cough spell casting cough

[ripe obsidian]

Or complaining that the newest paid class isn't OP (because they don't understand what the dodge button does)

[pale prairie]

If I can’t stand in fire and tox gas and take no health damage than this class is stupid and not worth buying

[wind spruce]

You could stack so much cdr that you could spam stim crate constantly and hyper violence lasted 3s

I mean like constantly btw

[deft stump]

Or just go with the usual, casual, easy, medium, hard, very hard, hardcore stuff. Hell, I would even just use numbers going up to show it even 1 for the starter, 10 for, I want to die.

[pale prairie]

I am talking about arbites specifically

But I believe that

[wind spruce]

Gross

[pale prairie]

Jesus

Hyperviolence being 3 seconds is insane

[wind spruce]

Sup?

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/you-bait-bait-you-bait-like-a-gman-gif-18264509709347621002

[deft stump]

Arby exist, FS just needs to stop nerfing the tankiness for lower skilled players.

[ripe obsidian]

Arbites is probably the most balanced class right now, weirdly enough

[jovial juniper]

Which is crazy because it makes it mid

[pale prairie]

Balanced in the perspective of all classes being raised. It wasn’t even changed that much compared to launch. Just added more strength to alligator

[jovial juniper]

Middle keystone still annoying but at least it does something

[loud girder]

elden ring 1 difficulty is misleading because you can customize your own diff with summons, tons of broken builds/weapons, buffs ect

[ripe obsidian]

Psyker is certainly the most OP, and probably has the largest variety of viable playstyles (in H40). Scum is second, then Vet, then maybe Arby and Ogryn at a pretty even level (only because Taunt is the strongest ability in the game due to how it breaks AI), with Zealot in the bottom slot. But a good Zealot is still really strong.

[loud girder]

i can make any elden ring fight take 5 minutes or 1 shot a boss

cause the game lets me do that

[wind spruce]

I can also do that with a crusher

[loud girder]

[pale prairie]

Yeah but I know you are doing your best

[wind spruce]

Crusher? I hardly know her

[pale prairie]

No she crushes you

[wind spruce]

Please

[jovial juniper]

[ripe obsidian]

Not everyone wants to put the time and effort into figuring out builds to make the game easier. I mean, I have beaten ER 3x thus far, with a dex build, a dex/int build, and a strength/bleed build, so I understand what you mean. But I have witnessed people get frustrated and quit in the first zone, before you get summons or a variety of weapons, because they've spent 4 hours just getting slaughtered by trash mobs and it's not fun.

[wind spruce]

But on the other hand not everything needs to be accessible for everyone

[deft stump]

Dying is also punishing in those. More so dying after dying and being gimped.

[pale prairie]

Regarding arbites when they rehauled ALL the classes this is what they did for arbites in response to complaints about it being pay2win:

That’s it

[ripe obsidian]

It is true. But when someone wants to enjoy a game, why not let them? It hurts no one to add an option to turn down enemy damage 50%.

[deft stump]

I'm assuming it has the, you lose your souls on death and if fail to pick it before dying again, you perma lose it.

[loud girder]

i mean people who dont wanna tinker around can watch/read a lot of available guides to make things smoother, if you dont wanna do either of that then i dont think the series should change its entire design philosophy just to accomodate people who dont want to engage with the game much
im a firm believer that not every game should be for everyone

a game for everyone is a game for nobody

[thorn cedar]

Remote Det change was pretty big tbf

[ripe obsidian]

Poor bleed dog

[ripe obsidian]

I don't agree with this take.

[pale prairie]

Ah quoting a dev company that then bowed to the will of its consumers

[ripe obsidian]

A game for everyone is... Minecraft, or Mario, or Pokémon, or Tetris, or...

There are so many examples.

[loud girder]

also when it comes to ER specifically the open world nature pretty much lets u power level at your own pace since you're not forced to do 1 specific thing

[thorn cedar]

More like bent over.

[pale prairie]

Hawt

[deft stump]

Pokemon can be easy but also bs if you count PvP.

[ripe obsidian]

If Fromsoft added an option to lower enemy difficulty dealt by 50% to Elden Ring, would this negatively impact you?

[thorn cedar]

Yes.

[deft stump]

Just don't use the easy mode item.

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-andor-partagaz-thesis-please-major-lio-partagaz-anton-lesser-isb-gif-11016136622643590039

[ripe obsidian]

Pokémon PvP makes me rage more than almost anything. What the fuck do you mean I got paralyzed FOUR TIMES IN A ROW

[loud girder]

i mean yeah but some games simply might not appeal to everyone
jrpgs with 1 billion words might not appeal to everyone, strat games that need 100 hours to scratch the surface arent meant for everyone, fighting games where 1000 hours is considered novice levels arent meant to appeal to everyone and they're all good genres/ games

[deft stump]

Is the same as, don't touch the hardcore mode thing.

[thorn cedar]

No it's infringing on my honour. I won't have stolen gamer valor in my goddamn society.

[pale prairie]

Bruh basing your self esteem and personality on video game achievements is stealing your life not your valor

[loud girder]

not really but id rather they focus on something else since stuff like this already exists in the form of ingame items
pop crabs before each fight and u take way less dmg, wear good armor sets, use the easily findable incants/spells that reduce dmg
i respect games that want the player to engage with it

[thorn cedar]

Not according to all the hot babes I disappoint every night

[loud girder]

also tbh ER is a big success with the casual crowd
game didnt sell 25 million copies by appealing to hardcores

[ripe obsidian]

Genre and difficulty aren't equivalent. I don't enjoy games like Terraria or Factorio, and it's not because of the difficulty. If someone sees Elden Ring and decides they don't like the esoteric plot or dark fantasy setting, that's one thing. But if someone wants to play the game and is stonewalled by the difficulty, that sucks. What if someone is a new father who has under an hour to play a couple nights a week? It would suck to spend that hour just dying without progress.

[loud girder]

so their approach to diff worked out pretty well

[pale prairie]

Can’t even smoke a cigarette afterward anymore

[loud girder]

i get what you're trying to say but why would a series that markets itself as unforgiving punish series make itself easier for the dads who can only play 2 hours perk week when they already streamlined the formula so much and removed most of the diff and cancer stuff from prior souls games

[pale prairie]

*Lack of plot

[loud girder]

if a series wants to be hard and unforgiving then they have the right to do so tbh

[cosmic sigil]

Ainz that’s the MK8 in that video?

[loud girder]

like extractions shooters outside arc raiders mainly appeal to people who want to experience pure pain and that's totally fine

[ripe obsidian]

A toggle for 50% less damage dealt is an extremely miniscule change that people would have to turn on. It wouldn't be mandatory or default

[pale prairie]

Who is negatively affected by putting in an OPTIONAL damage reduction setting? Literally who?

[loud girder]

cant market yourself as the cbt series where you need to engage with it to do well and have story mode settings lol

that's all what im saying

[ripe obsidian]

Sure you can

[loud girder]

no one will lose sleep over diff options but if a dev chooses to make their game have a specific vibe then they should be able to do that

[pale prairie]

Just….dont turn it on? Then? Play “as intended”

[wind spruce]

I could write a long ass essay about why it can "hurt" but it would be incoherent rn, in short art has identity and intent that provides the creator with meaning and consumers of the art further infuse the art with identity which impacts how we experience it and so on

Basically, something can quite literally be ruined by someone else enjoying it incorrectly

[loud girder]

fromsoft simply doesnt wanna do it lol

people always ask for it and they havent done it and they been releasing games since forever

[ripe obsidian]

I mean, Fromsoft is under no obligation to add difficulty settings. It's not likely they ever will. I just think it would be nice if these options existed. And I say this as someone who picks the hardest non-permadeath option in every game I play

[ripe obsidian]

That's strange and I don't like it. Let people enjoy art and media however they want, so long as they aren't, like, weaponizing it to hurt other people.

[pale prairie]

The discussion isn’t over what fromsoft will or won’t do it’s about how does this Harm you for someone else to enjoy the game? Should we make sure there are no disability settings in all games?

[loud girder]

i think too many games nowadays are too streamlined and end up feeling boring to play cause all the diff options feel off so i'd rather devs do more 1 properly balanced option that u can customize through leveling up/perks/builds ect

[pale prairie]

No color correction for colorblind people?

[loud girder]

but hey that's just me

[loud girder]

the discussion is specifically about ER and how fromsoft approaches diff

[pale prairie]

Agreed but if the game is EXACTLY THE SAME with a single toggle hidden in the settings….

[wind spruce]

Its not rational, but we arent rational. We derive meaning and assign value based on such things all the time

[loud girder]

ok they should enable it nd force every player that picks it to wear a chicken helmet

[wind spruce]

Scarcity, challenge, perceived exclusivity, nostalgia, tradition

[ripe obsidian]

How someone else enjoys a video game has literally zero impact on someone unless said enjoyment is actively trolling or griefing, which is a different issue entirely

[wind spruce]

None of it makes sense, but we gatekeep inherently as a species (atleast culturally)

[pale prairie]

See this feels like it’s just an ego brag gatekeep position in a single player game.

I agree that from an art or Development perspective don’t try to cater to everyone and everything but there is a difference between changing your creative goals because of people and ENABLING or opening the game to other people. My father has a chronic illness but still loves video games. Beating God of War 1 & 2 would have been impossible without the disability settings to allow him to enjoy it.

[ripe obsidian]

It's so weird to me that anyone cares if someone else plays a game on a lower difficulty

[pale prairie]

It’s about being able to feel superior

[loud girder]

there's no ego invovled, i've already explained how ER already lets u curate difficulty and choose which area u wanna tackle and overlevel to your hearts content ect
the game simply requires the player to engage with it to achieve all that and i support that mentality, its not about ego or gatekeeping i simply respect devs that have a vision and focus on it
if fromsoft doesnt want u to mindlessly kill everything while tanking every single hit without exploration/learning the game then they have every right to do so

[wind spruce]

If you could turn the difficulty down on climbing mt everest, do you think people would find it as appealing to climb? Or atleast appealing in the same way?

[pale prairie]

What the fuck are payingsherpas to carry all your gear?

[wind spruce]

Ive never played dark souls btw

No attachment to it

[cosmic sigil]

Irosknotaweeborc

[pale prairie]

Again so THOSE people miss out on some esoteric intangible THING about the game. But YOU DONT cause you played it ON HIGHEST DIFFICULTY right?

[static vessel]

This is hardly a change

[pale prairie]

Exactamundo

[loud girder]

when it comes to actual disability options, fromsoft is like 20 years behind everyone when it comes to stuff like that

they're not exactly good at implenting modern tech stuff

[static vessel]

They pulled back a few things and pulled forward others

That's so dishonest

[pale prairie]

Same patch that psyker got immaterial focus SG buff , base toughness buff, Just a Dream etc

[static vessel]

Psyker has

So much toughness

[cosmic sigil]

Psyker is peril to win

[ripe obsidian]

Some people might find it less appealing, sure. But I honestly don't care about them. I'd rather an experience be available to more people to enjoy than gatekeep it for the sake of gatekeeping.

In the context of Fromsoft, I understand the difficulty is part of Miyazaki's vision and isn't gonna change. He is entitled to create his art however he sees fit. At the same time, I find it frustrating that people express their own prestige is somehow marred by someone else playing at a lower difficulty. I don't think I have ever in my life, outside of discussions like this, talked about what difficulty I, or someone else, played through a single player game.

[strong gulch]

They already did and more people climbed it. There's a trash pile up problem now.

[cosmic sigil]

And actual people in the trash too

[pale prairie]

That’s what I am saying though. Is that I feel that IN the disability section it wouldn’t hurt the game identity post development cycle to include something like that. Nobody has to play it like that. But the people who want CAN. And nobody is hurt. The game is the same. And like you said this can already be achieved through certain items and over leveling, this would just be a shortcut to that.

[wind spruce]

And I've never had the slightest desire for designer consumer products and don't care about knock offs, but those who do exist as part of the spectrum of typical human experience

But its objectively wrong to say one person's enjoyment of something can't be marred by another's access to it

[loud girder]

i mean im not doing that tho
i like customizable stuff in game, the most recent doom game allows u to customize everything from enemy speedy/aggro/pace to the speed of their own bullets on top of many other things
games like dishonored allow you to customize like 20+ peramters to make it as easy or as punishing as humanely possible
lots of games do this pretty well
all am saying is certain games are built to be hard/punishing and people are allowed to make games like that, not every game can be for everyone and im not saying this as an ego thing since a lot of stuff doesnt appeal to me and i understand that some things will simply appeal to certain crowds

[wind spruce]

And its not pathological for it to be the case

[pale prairie]

This cuts both ways though to your argument

[loud girder]

fromsoft needs to figure out how to make their games not locked to 60fps before adding any fancy features lol

[wind spruce]

Im just pointing out what the effect can be btw, im not arguing extra difficulties shouldn't be added

[strong gulch]

Accessibility are not fancy features if that's what's being implied. That is a dangerous take.

Also hi bye.

[deft stump]

More, boring. Terraria is literally super karking boring till end game for me. Where you go hunt bosses.

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/simpson-simpsons-play-devils-advocate-gif-23657477

[loud girder]

if you know how backwards fromsoft is when it comes to their settings menu you will get what i mean

[pale prairie]

? I was saying Elden Ring basically has no plot or story.

[loud girder]

they have some of the most limited menu settings out of all the big AAA devs

[wind spruce]

There might be some crossed threads here about accessibility based on ableness and accessibility in terms of enjoyment

[loud girder]

its not meant to be a malicious comment, im saying fromsoft cant figure out the most basic features

their game logic is tied to fps

[thorn cedar]

Elden Ring isn't even necessarily easier, it's just more accessible because you don't have to hit your head against the same brick wall to progress. If a boss is absolutely demolishing you in any other FromSoft game, you're stuck.

[kind jay]

you guys dont know what difficulty is. i played dt for a week with the Mutant Tom mod

[loud girder]

i'd say its easier mainly because u can make comically broken builds

[deft stump]

You replied to Six who pointed out certain games with lack of plot for most part as well. I'm just saying why the game is also boring for some other ppl and is why is not really for me.

[pale prairie]

Ahh

[deft stump]

It could be anything, but it's not difficulty for those.

[pale prairie]

I didn’t realize I had so much power. I can use game hacks on dark souls games and elden ring and play single player while one hitting bosses and somewhere in the world I will do psychic damage to millions of IroskOrks cause I am, nOt PlAyInG aS iNtEnDeD.

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-the-power-power-sword-gif-4434958

[wind spruce]

You kids and your damn handouts

[pale prairie]

You sweaty gamers and your delicate psyches

[wind spruce]

Whats next? You want everyone to have food, running water and heating?!?

[pale prairie]

YOURE ASKING IF I WANT EASY BABY MODE FOR HUMANS?!?

How dare you

Move that difficulty slider all the way to the right!

[thorn cedar]

Stolen valor!!

[ripe obsidian]

Elden Ring, played without reading item descriptions, is extremely plot-light. Elden Ring as a setting, reading item descriptions, exploring, finding optional NPCs, etc., is a pretty rich world. I actually really like how Fromsoft does storytelling, because it's one of few studios that actually makes use of video games as a medium for stories rather than just making an interactive movie. Another game I can think of in that vein is Disco Elysium.

[deft stump]

Food and clean water is a need/necessity, not even a luxury. You can't compare those.

[cosmic sigil]

If I wanna read I open a book tho

[pale prairie]

Here’s my hot take if you need the general community to exhaustively read every item description and piece it together with the sparse dialogue and narration like a giant jigsaw puzzle…..it’s not really a narrative plot

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-charlie-day-crazy-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-qanon-gif-23738584

Literally the Elden Ring wiki

[ripe obsidian]

Elden Ring is the House of Leaves of video games.

(I hated House of Leaves and didn't finish it.)

[wind spruce]

While we're at it can we resurrect Sartre and make him dumb his books down so i can finish them

[loud girder]

bioshock 1 is probably my fav form of telling a story through environments, collectibles like audio tapes and just general encounters when it comes to popular games

[deft stump]

It is lore, but the game is just whacking big stronk things otherwise with a thin story.

[loud girder]

you just experience the story organically through progressing and uncovering the mystery of the underwater city instead of just watching exposition

[deft stump]

Is a confusing mess much.

[pale prairie]

Elden Ring is fun gameplay and crazy bosses and insane environments and then they realized maybe there should be some kind of story….hire a famous American author to write like 100 pages I guess

[wind spruce]

Karien. To be clear, ofc everyone should have those things, and I want joy and happiness and accessibility for all. That was a hyperbolic joke. All I'm doing here re the dark souls thing is pointing out that how we enjoy art and entertainment is weird

[ripe obsidian]

House of Leaves reads to me like pseudo-intellectual glop that delights itself with being opaque and unreliable.

[loud girder]

it's a plot tho, ER is actually a lot less cryptic/symbolic/vague compared to prior souls games when it comes to understanding wtf happened to it's world
The dlc straight up has an easy to follow plot without needing to read anything too

[ripe obsidian]

I was rolling my eyes more than anything as I worked though that book.

[fresh pike]

That's completely valid tbh

[pale prairie]

Oh man less cryptic and vague than Darksouls?!? Somebody send Miyazaki the Nobel prize for literature right now please

[loud girder]

you're joking but it's true

there's a huge overarching plot and lore that's pretty easy to understand all things considered

[ripe obsidian]

George RR Martin wrote most of Elden Ring, I believe

[loud girder]

not finding ER storytelling appealing is 1 thing, saying it has no plot is just wrong lol

[loud girder]

he wrote the foundation and general world building, fromsoft did the rest

[wind spruce]

Should've got Steven Erikson to write it

[deft stump]

People just enjoy different things, but I will never complain about accessiblity options to change a difficulty of a true singleplayer game. Or one with optional PvP where you could just have everything be at 100% standard value in that arena/mode.

[pale prairie]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/06/20/what-did-george-rr-martin-contribute-to-elden-ring/

[fresh pike]

I would love a questlog for the sidequests ngl

[wind spruce]

Neither will I, because I stan accessibility, but that directly conflicts with the enjoyment people derive from exclusivity etc.

[pale prairie]

Sum it up in a few sentences

[deft stump]

That's accessiblity for some ppl. Only hardcore gamers remember every NPC they gave them missions and the list of things they need to do. Casuals can go get karked. That's what it feels like.

[wind spruce]

RPG games suck

[static sonnet]

I thought they nerfed Soulstealer?

[deft stump]

It works if you play like I do. 18 hours 1 session at times, but not if you play 1-2 hours a day over a month.

[pale prairie]

They walked it back

Got scared

[ripe obsidian]

Gardens of the Moon is another book I bounced off of. Not because it's difficult to follow, as is often said, but because it holds all of the characters at arm's length. It's impossible to care about these people when they're tossed in your face without any character development already waist-deep in their plotlines.

[static sonnet]

Cannot possibly nerf psyker

[fresh pike]

They can be nice, just depends on the game or subgenrenof rpg

[fresh pike]

It be like that fr

[loud girder]

dont think they'll ever add quest logs cause their brand of quests is making the player go WOWZA when u randomly run into the item u need for your quest 20 hours later and an npc called zanibart cries about his wife then commits suicide
we're probably thankful ER quests arent as easy to break as ds1 and ds3 those games tilted me to no end

[wind spruce]

I got to the fall of Pale and stopped reading. Then I picked it up again a year or so later and finished it. Then 6 months after that I was halfway through book 3 and decided to listen to GotM again. That listen was one of my favourite fantasy experiences ever.

The re-read being the best part is a huge thing in the malazan fanbase

[pale prairie]

Don’t forget the pivotal plot point surrounding Dung Eater he IS the scourge of the Living

[loud girder]

powerful god that answers to higher beings fucks shit up and break reality and their family/other demoigods wage war over the pieces and ruin themselves and tha land

i tried to simplify it as humanely possible

you find out what happened by exploring the land and killing them all

[pale prairie]

Who the fuck is the higher beings? I thought a god got assassinated.

[fresh pike]

Nah just one vassal

And a demigod

[pale prairie]

A son

https://tenor.com/view/celebrity-couple-breakup-emmastone-crying-gif-5254509616918020870

[fresh pike]

Godwyn isn't dead, just not alive

[loud girder]

The Greater Will

[fresh pike]

Same as Ranni but different

[pale prairie]

Something something fingers but broken

[loud girder]

greater will is behind the rise of the golden order, formless mother is very cryptic, rot god is the........rot god. frenzied flame is whatever you want it to be amongst other gods

[pale prairie]

Man this is like playing pretend with my 6 year old niece

[loud girder]

there's rich history/lore for pretty much every single area/boss/faction

like actual written stuff not just people headcannoing stuff with theory

[fresh pike]

That's true

[pale prairie]

Describe to me Dung Eater’s lore

I want to know

[wind spruce]

@ripe obsidian the character development is there, it just takes time to build. We see all of Crokus, Sorry/Apsalar, and Parans development starting in book 1 and continuing.

Book 2/3 is when you fall in love.

[loud girder]

twisted sicko who thinks the world is fucked and wants to troll people by defling their corpses so they dont "die" properly and they dont "Rest" (it makes sense i swear)

[ripe obsidian]

I like the prose, and the world seems interesting enough, I just didn't give half a damn about any of the characters. They all bored me, and they all seemed to speak in a manner that intentionally obscures what's actually going on. Like, sure, I don't want exposition dumps, but I want to understand the stakes or the reasons anyone is doing anything.

[pale prairie]

Where the fuck do I find this about him????

[loud girder]

by doing his quest

[pale prairie]

Hmmmmm just skipping dialogue strikes again

[fresh pike]

Where is the lore about Rellana

[loud girder]

u collect the seedbed thingies he was using to defile corpses

[fresh pike]

I'm convinced she's just the original character do not steal of the game

[loud girder]

and you see him talking about wanting to defile more and more

[loud girder]

her lore is that she aurafarms

[pale prairie]

Elden Ring is a fever dream

[fresh pike]

Rennala does that to in the opening cutscene

[loud girder]

the star of the dlc when it comes to lore are mainly mesmer and miquilla and his gang

[fresh pike]

I swear that whole family consists of frauds

[fresh pike]

Fair

[wind spruce]

Those things come alot easier after GotM. It was Erikson's first book and was written ~10 years before the rest of the series before he'd really perfected his craft.

[pale prairie]

Incestuous frauds

[fresh pike]

No that's Marika's thing

[ripe obsidian]

GotM was also adapted from a screenplay

Which doesn't help

[pale prairie]

Miquella?

[fresh pike]

I'll elaborate further after I'm done cleaning

[fresh pike]

Talking about the Rennala/Radigon side

And Rellana

[ripe obsidian]

GotM is a book adapted from a screenplay adapted from worldbuilding for a GURPS campaign he played in university. It's a miracle it functions as a book at all, ha

[wind spruce]

Was it? My understanding is that the universe was developed from Erikson & Esslement playing dnd like roleplaying games for years before either of them wrote anything

[pale prairie]

It’s okay you really don’t have to. Not that truly invested

[deft stump]

To be fair, I can barely write a story in the world I made for D&D, so it can be hard lul.

[wind spruce]

I didnt know all those details; nice.

[ripe obsidian]

Per Wikipedia,

"Erikson and Ian C. Esslemont initially devised the Malazan world as a backdrop for a table-top role-playing game.[2][3] Unhappy with the lack of quality adult oriented fantasy movies at the time, the duo decided to write their own movie script using their gaming experience and the world they had created. The script, titled Gardens of the Moon, was deemed too risky and failed to sell. With interest in the script seeming nonexistent, Erikson, with Esslemont's go ahead, reworked it into a fantasy novel, which he completed around 1991–92. [4][5]"

[deft stump]

Make the universe easy, writing a plot for it for a story, hard.

[pale prairie]

That’s what @ripe obsidian does best

[wind spruce]

Has autism, yes.

[zealous wing]

is anyone else having out of the ordinary lag spikes today? i know some friends have been having abnormal issues, but also just today ive been getting abnormal spikes sending me from 50-60 ping into 400-500 midgame for 5 or so seconds

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/whoa-gif-20492375

[fresh pike]

It's only necessary if I'm throwing smack at a generally liked faction

[pale prairie]

I love a good takedown

[ripe obsidian]

Not diagnosed, but probably. I have been diagnosed with general anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder, ADHD, and potentially very mild OCD.

[zealous wing]

that does sound like the Autism Blend (tm)

[pale prairie]

And all of this right after starting Darktide

How could you Fatshark

[wind spruce]

3/4 of those for me

[cosmic sigil]

I think I stopped Malazan around the fourth book. It was becoming so convoluted that I just couldn’t

And the feeling that it was at the core dnd fanfiction

[wind spruce]

Deranged and despicable

House of Chains is incredible

[fresh pike]

Ranni gets no diffed by her dad's dog in her current state, Radahn used his teachings by an Alabaster Lord to do the Psyker equivalent of Ogryn's rock and I gotta do more research on Rykard tbf

[wind spruce]

Karsa... WITNESS!!!

[fresh pike]

Rellana is just the OC of some guy/gal who was really into Rennala I'd guess unless there's some base game item mentioning her

[pale prairie]

Thank god for clear exposition

[fresh pike]

If Rennala wasn't debuffed by that egg she would be a menace

Throws out Comet Azurs like shards

[ripe obsidian]

It is TTRPG fanfiction, technically. But only if you count writing about your own campaign as fanfiction, ha

[wind spruce]

@cosmic sigil did you get to the end of Memories of Ice?

[loud girder]

he was one of the golden order knights, rejects it cause its LAME and chose an extreme path to fight them (he got devoured by a god eating snake and merged with it!!?>????)

[wind spruce]

Absolute masterpiece

[loud girder]

then became obssesed with devouring gods

very cheerful fella

[cosmic sigil]

I checked. I stopped halfway through the fifth book

[loud girder]

oh and his followers are cultists who hunt down other god's champions

[wind spruce]

Im about 75% through book 4

[cosmic sigil]

Probably because I started reading royal assassin

[wind spruce]

Shall report back on Midnight Tides

[cosmic sigil]

It’s different

Could be another universe

[wind spruce]

Oh its the Tiste Edur time jump

[cosmic sigil]

Ye

[fresh pike]

Yeah but idk if he specifically founding the magma sorceries

So I gotta check that rq before I call him a fraud

[wind spruce]

It can be gruelling at times. Going back to the damn whirlwind/seven cities storyline was not what I wanted at all after MoI. I didn't like Deadhouse Gates as much as others do.

[fresh pike]

Comes with acquiring knowledge beyond human comprehension

Sellen did something similar

[loud girder]

nah rykard aint no fraud

[cosmic sigil]

As a universe I am very fond of the cosmere

[loud girder]

he a real one

[dry perch]

Can't seem to find it in my various tooltips; what causes the random head pop on flame staff application?

[fresh pike]

Real wizza?

[dry perch]

Running the psyker/flame staff bubble build from the guide

[wary vessel]

Hello lovelies im new to psyker and wanna use the magic sword who here can bless mine self with a build?

[zealous wing]

kinetic flayer, brain burst upgrade

[dry perch]

Tyy

[zealous wing]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0bcdc7a-d0f6-4438-825d-fa4fe02e1909/berpsyker

and guide in pins for more

[wary vessel]

That's the great sword do you have one for the smaller one?

Cause that's the one i have rn

[zealous wing]

uh, which mark

[wind spruce]

Ive read a lot of cosmere. Loved mistborn and stormlight.

[wary vessel]

Mark? Idk lol it's just the blaze force sword

[wind spruce]

I've fallen behind though

And it doesnt have the same appeal anymore

[zealous wing]

it'd be generally the same, deimos and obscurus are much worse hordeclear, and illisi struggles with armour so badly, so it wont feel as well rounded

could get rid of melee attack speed for example for another point somewhere if you have a preference point you want, since they attack pretty quickly, up to you

[wary vessel]

Idk what all that means 😭 can you explain it to me like im an ogryn

[cosmic sigil]

Wait for mistborn era 3. Cyberpunk inspired.

[zealous wing]

yes

top right

and weapon name is here

deimos

marks button to switch marks on demand

[wind spruce]

Should be very fun.

[cosmic sigil]

Khaladin is my least favorite part of stormlight tbh. Too fucking depresssed. Give me more Shallan or Adolin.

[ripe obsidian]

Friend, sibling. Look ye upon the pins. I have constructed a guide, just for you. Specifically for you. I used Scrier's Gaze to see into a future where you would need it.

[wind spruce]

Hopefully see some more savants, i loved when whatshisname become a tineye savant

[wary vessel]

Oh i have the same one in the picture just not the rarity lol

[zealous wing]

deimos does this

[wind spruce]

And the combos with other shards investiture will be wicked

[cosmic sigil]

Yeeeah savants

[zealous wing]

greatsword does this

this is why i go greatsword

also for this

[wary vessel]

I don't see pings sibling I think my discord is a different version 😭

[zealous wing]

pc or mobile

[wind spruce]

Totally get that but also shallan and dalarin also spend like a whole book depressed haha

[cosmic sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/thrust-gif-7432369284211064007

[zealous wing]

should be top right

[ripe obsidian]

#psyker-class message

[zealous wing]

[wary vessel]

No pins lol

[cosmic sigil]

Yeah but they lived through so much worse stuff

[wary vessel]

Ok great sword is better in every which way is what you're saying right?

[zealous wing]

its slower, but much stronger in all aspects

slower as in, less mobility

and well, attack speed

[cosmic sigil]

Ok he lost his brother. But mfg the guilt follows him during 5 books

[wind spruce]

Thats whats great about kaladin's character backstory imo, that he's depressed inherently/has extremely early childhood attachment issues

[zealous wing]

the others can work, its preference game at the end of the day

but thats why FGS is everywhere while the others are usually delegated to sidearm

[cosmic sigil]

It’s realist but a pain to read for that long

[pale prairie]

Yeah he should just get over it. It’s just grief not like loss damages people long term

[ripe obsidian]

Sanderson is very clumsy in his writing of mental health.

[pale prairie]

[wind spruce]

Agreed

[wary vessel]

Hmmm ok I'll go for great sword for my first build but i still wanna use the normal version too but for a different build obviously for funises

[wind spruce]

Like bro standup

Do something cool

[pale prairie]

U first

[zealous wing]

we love goofy builds

[wind spruce]

Im eating mi goreng rn, is that cool enough?

[ripe obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/facts-gif-10373241890546974131

[zealous wing]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1005f75-f2d5-4353-ad09-96218a14f7b0/adhd-mode-lol

[cosmic sigil]

Not saying loss is not horrible. But Shallan and Dalinar have so much more worse trauma and it’s not a slog to read. Sanderson writes madness better than depression apparently.

[zealous wing]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1680143-d6f5-4d47-9328-bed2bc44cd9f/full-power
oh yeah i made a better cause six pain build

[wary vessel]

How do you spam parry skill like that lol also how do you spawn enemies like that is it a pc only thing?

[pale prairie]

Spicy sauce?

[pale prairie]

Yeah the slog for me is also the constant flash backs

[zealous wing]

PC, creature spawner mod.

spam, thats devils claw for you, with kinetic deflection talent and stamina for good measure

[wind spruce]

Yessir

[cosmic sigil]

Ahhhh yeah

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/the-night-before-seth-rogen-cool-as-fuck-cool-gif-4599474

[wary vessel]

Oh so you can't just spam it fast like that normally i thought there was some tech i didn't know about lol

[pale prairie]

Like bro there is a lot going on right now I don’t give a fuck why you are called blackthorn. This could have been 3 sentences of exposition

[zealous wing]

you can spam it that fast normally, but you usually run out of stamina during it

if you have the stamina or talents allowing you to bypass stamina, it works very funnily

[wary vessel]

Oh it costs stamina? I didn't know lol thanks for telling me lol

[patent hatch]

Pushing does cost stamina hmhm

[cosmic sigil]

After the arena part in stormlight, I think Adolin became my favorite character

[patent hatch]

(Woild be busted if it wasn't)

[zealous wing]

devils claw parry isnt a push

its special action

[patent hatch]

:o

[zealous wing]

if you take kinetic deflection, it costs peril instead

[ripe obsidian]

From what I understand, Sanderson's long-time editor retired somewhere around Stormlight 3, and he's not had a good one since.

[patent hatch]

Fair must of miseead

[wind spruce]

Ok imagine if every single page was stuff like shallan discovering the Special TM spren in whatever the big ol radiant city is called

Thats malazan

Esoteric, hardly explained, huge world impacting info coming at you every paragraph

I love it

[pale prairie]

I loved him after he killed the monologueing mustache twirling sadeas

[ripe obsidian]

Is Shallan the sassy, brainy, misunderstood woman, or the sassy, brainy, misunderstood woman? Or is she she sassy, brainy, misunderstood woman? Sanderson just writes so many unique and definitely not the same personality with a different hairstyle female characters that I struggle to keep track.

[cosmic sigil]

Oh fuck yeah

That was so out of the blue

[pale prairie]

That explains why I got tuckered around book 4ish. I’ll pick it up again eventually

[cosmic sigil]

I was like what what what

[wind spruce]

She's the second one of those

[ripe obsidian]

Ah, gotcha

[cosmic sigil]

The queen is not misunderstood tho

Just sassy and brainy

[wind spruce]

Navani?

[cosmic sigil]

Yes

[wind spruce]

Or Jasnah?

Right

[pale prairie]

Hey guys do you think the world is fallen/god is dead?

Sanderson:

[cosmic sigil]

Navani is way more interesting than Jasnah

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/hp-harry-potter-snape-always-stare-gif-17584635

[cosmic sigil]

Jasnah was cool when we thought she had a grasp about what was going on. Turns out she was fooled all along.

[wind spruce]

Yeah but also... hoiD 😏

[cosmic sigil]

Fooled indeed

[pale prairie]

Whoa it’s like it’s some kind of cinematic combined universe

What a MARVEL

[cosmic sigil]

I read mistborn and other cosmere books in between (the recommended order iirc). It was more palatable.

I could not do stormlight in one go

So I read the entire cosmere along the way

[verbal thistle]

6

[pale prairie]

Yeah I kind of don’t like big combined universes because it ends up having the GRR Martin and Lost problem. Too many characters and too many plot lines

[ripe obsidian]

Hi

[cosmic sigil]

How do you do the stab just after the light attack?

[wind spruce]

I read them all and then forgot what happened by the time book 3, then 4 and now 5 came out

[wind spruce]

L1 h2?

[cosmic sigil]

Actually, it’s way better with Sanderson. There’s less characters and the storylines are less convoluted imho

[cosmic sigil]

What??

[pale prairie]

Yeah he is dipping his toe in but I am worried it will balloon

[cosmic sigil]

I read all the books minus yumi, tress, and isles. So the last 3 secret projects. It is not.

[wind spruce]

The heavy is just an l1 h2 combo with the equip light tacked on the front

[cosmic sigil]

I thought you could access the stab only after h1

[wind spruce]

Nope, also after l1

[cosmic sigil]

That’s way faster

[cold oasis]

They are cute

[wind spruce]

You can l1 and then wind up the heavy stab during a slide/dodge for a quicker opening than h1h2

Just annoying that there's the equip/slide l0 tbh

[main crow]

Ngl, I just enjoyed all of Dalinar’s bits

[pale prairie]

Let’s write a small novella literally about young Dalinar then. He LOVES novellas

[main crow]

True

I wonder if that would solve a lot of the Stormlight pacing issues

I think Mistborn and the Wax and Wayne books are my favorite tho

Can’t wait for the modern day and sci fi ones

[gilded radish]

Encountered an absolutely bullshit dh spawn spot, blocking the only path through. How tf am I supposed to finish a true solo with that garbage. Furtherest I have made it only to die because of straight up invisible hound and a huge hord of gunners lined up right next to a dh blocking the only path forwards

[pale prairie]

The Apple TV series will be interesting. I don’t know how they plan to do the magic lines and stuff

[buoyant maple]

@wind spruce idk if u saw yet but there's a new healthbar mod and it's fire

@ripe obsidian

[wind spruce]

Enemies improved?

[buoyant maple]

ye, it did have notable fps impact when tracking multiple enemies for me tho

but with internal fps limiter it's alr

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1494770295943335947/2742F85DDF4BA75F.mp4?ex=69e3d0d2&is=69e27f52&hm=3677b8a0aeb59e0c1212fc35a0b6cf78d098a2c5a13a9d3668055bbe002bcdff&
I think I got it working & looking good here

[wind spruce]

Looks very fancy

Healthbars mod recently got an update to include debuffs but this might be better

I dont like having actual healthbars, but certain debuffs is a must

Eg when using needle pistol. Theres almost no visual indicator of enemies getting hit with my shitty graphics settings

[buoyant maple]

the default settings for this mod are super fancy

I went for a largely minimalist look

[wind spruce]

I need to sacrifice some other luxuries to upgrade my pc. I haven't changed a single pc of hardware since i built it in about 2016. Running 8gb of ram lol

Today i came to the conclusion that ive basically hit the upper limit of what i can achieve with the fps lows i suffer through

Borderline blind when theres an armour horde in front of me. Its all game sense + sound queues bc i miss half the visual animation queues

Was clutching out a h36 thinking "man this is actually easier than when my teammates are alive and tanking my frames with stupid explosions"

Are the enemy attack warnings good @buoyant maple ?

[marble crater]

Ew, imagine using health bar mods to make the game easier and more accessible

Couldn't be me, because we have no mods

[buoyant maple]

in this mod? it depends on which one u use

there's enemy outline feature

[buoyant maple]

lemme record I'll show u

[wind spruce]

The icons outline turns red in this clip on nexus

[buoyant maple]

@wind spruce https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1494776413537177620/31FC3063066AE310.mp4?ex=69e3d684&is=69e28504&hm=cd4af9df87b00420532a240d9fe60d2ab19971415cba3680893c14bfa48562ed&
my normal enemy tag is red
while crusher is doing overhead it overrides the outline to my selected color (white here)
u can also choose to have this overhead outline be a pulsating effect but I chose not to

there's also an option to have certain enemies perma outlined (which is very cheaty imo if u perma outline every specialist) but I didn't have it on, I just have outlines for overheads

[wind spruce]

Looks good. Im gonna set it up with just some of those indicators and debuffs and see how it impacts pc performance

[buoyant maple]

I ran previously with uncapped fps and it dropped me like 20%fps at times
I then optimized for 1% lows with fps cap and it doesn't seem to do much atm, at least inside meat grinder

[cosmic sigil]

Internal fps limiter?

[buoyant maple]

not game-native fps limiter (that one is ass)

[wind spruce]

Path blinking rapidly

[cosmic sigil]

Please help

I need a better one

[buoyant maple]

use either RivaTuner from MSI afterburner (for windows) or mangojuice (for linux)

[cosmic sigil]

I didn't know rivatuner could do that

[buoyant maple]

this is my frametime (I'm on linux)

[cosmic sigil]

Cachyos?

[buoyant maple]

set fps limit method to async or front

ye

cachy is so gud

[cosmic sigil]

Full amd hw?

[buoyant maple]

no, Nvidia GPU, Intel CPU

I bought this machine 2nd hand from a friend of mine who has disposable income

he swapped to 5090 and wanted to sell his old rig

[cosmic sigil]

I thought there was a sensible loss of perf with an nvidia gpu

[buoyant maple]

not rly? at least I never had issues with Nvidia stuff on linux

only thing was nvidia stack having problem with DT's mesh streamer on linux

but this can just be turned off

[cosmic sigil]

Ok. I am going to try this without rivatuner first and see if I lose fps

[buoyant maple]

I hav 180hz display and I tweaked around a bit to find 177 being the sweet spot

I tried 144, 165, 170~178

[wind spruce]

Debuff indicator is way too high

Cant find an adjustment for it

Will leave feedback unless youve found the setting @buoyant maple ?

[cosmic sigil]

Wait it remplaces the debuff indicator mod too?

[buoyant maple]

I actually don't even use the debuff feature

lol

I think u can set the height and reduce it?

the only debuff I care abt in the game is skullcrusher and it's not done that well in the mod yet

[wind spruce]

You can do so for healthbars but not debuffs i think

This mod is great though. Love that you can override settings for groups of enemies aswell as individual ones.

[buoyant maple]

ykw try displaying debuff on body

[wind spruce]

Was so quick and easy to isolate crushers, turn the normal indicator off, turn attack indicator on, change colour, stop it flashing etc

[wind spruce]

Ah i mustve missed that ill look again in a tick

[buoyant maple]

bottom option

[cosmic cobalt]

front edge sync have huge input latency impact

the frametime is flat but it really noticeable

[buoyant maple]

cool cuz I don't use dat

I just use "early" in mangohud

[cosmic cobalt]

rtss + its reflex implementation is best between frametime and input latency

oh Linux

[cosmic cobalt]

rtss can do it for you manually if you ctrl click iirc

[cosmic cobalt]

this is actually better on og healthbar mod since sc debuff change color once maxed out

[buoyant maple]

that's not the feature I care abt actually

what it needs to do is to have a fade-out as enemies recover from stagger to indicate that the debuffs are applied but not active

[wind spruce]

This annoys me. Really good h40 player makes a glass cannon shivs needle pistol build

Doesnt take virulent strain?!?!?

Please make me understand

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/looking-staring-shocked-shook-looking-myself-in-the-mirror-gif-16325344

Oh wait you said Really Good

[wind spruce]

Its basically 10% MULTIPLICATIVE and GLOBAL damage buff to anything you dont one shot PLUS 10% from your teammates too

Its insanely good

[pale prairie]

Meh

Isn’t it a Debuff?

[wind spruce]

Yeah

Which buffs the damage you're doing to the target fivehead

[pale prairie]

I have it but I almost wonder if welcome to Tertium or whatever is better

[wind spruce]

Welcome to tertium better for small stuff, but this affects toxin, and teammates, and goes beyond your first target

With Splash Damage and Coated Weaponry w/ scums high crit chance its applied so much

[pale prairie]

Probably but most of the time the things with it just die fast anyway cause either it’s small or I put a lot of tox stacks on it

[wind spruce]

Yeah so for bosses and ogryns its gonna be up almost always

[pale prairie]

And if it’s a boss then 15% on each of my fast quick spam hits is very good especially with day tacaxe crits

[crisp ether]

Virulent Strain results in a higher damage overall comparatively

[wind spruce]

Plus splash damage applies it to the group of enemies before you attack them

[crisp ether]

Multiplicative vs Additive is a big difference

[wind spruce]

Kill one rager in a pack now the whole pack takes 10% multiplicative damagefrom the whole team

Its nuts

[pale prairie]

How does that work out math wise?

[buoyant maple]

say u have +45% damage already
+10% damage gives u 1.55x base dmg
x110% dmg taken gives u 1.595x base dmg

[cosmic cobalt]

but well its a debuff that only matter for bosses

since shit just die

[crisp ether]

Additive bonuses take your base damage, multiply it and then add it to your total damage.

Multiplicative takes all additive bonuses with your base damage and multiplies it all together.

[crisp ether]

There's quite a bit of enemies this matters for

[pale prairie]

Wouldn’t the fact that it’s 15% vs 10% bring it close to even?

[wind spruce]

Except that you also have Splash Damage

And you dont one shot everything

Eg rotten shenanigans

[pale prairie]

In Paths example wouldn’t it be

1.60 vs 1.595

[crisp ether]

No because that 15% melee damage is additive. It doesn't take everything else you have going on into account like the 10% from VS.