psyker-class

[hearty wolf]

it's that you listed out where the PR came from

And then when doing the math

you didn't follow the list

[tulip kettle]

haha

i put them in order idk

[strong gulch]

no maff good
maff good
block of numbers

[tulip kettle]

my brain just worked that way

[hearty wolf]

I see

[tulip kettle]

accept them both

you will just clutch it ofc

[hearty wolf]

I rejected them before the screenshot even finished uploading

[upper sun]

beta insignia
level 19

ok

waiter WAITER more tourists please

[wind wind]

Hogy vagy kedvenc cápám

[ripe obsidian]

"stat buff: warp_charge_amount

Reduces the amount of peril generated by 5%; stacks multiplicatively with other small nodes and related peril cost reduction buffs from By Crack of Bone, Becalming Eruption, Empyric Resolve, Inner Tranquility, Kinetic Resonance, Reality Anchor, and Combat Stimm."

https://github.com/Aussiemon/Darktide-Source-Code/blob/f23235d2547a50adf1ad1cf6bdcb1af2f2a10333/scripts/settings/buff/buff_settings.lua#L755

warp_charge_amount = "multiplicative_multiplier",

[pale prairie]

The least you could do was accept them just to post their builds

[upper sun]

jo, regisztraltam az uj szmester oraira

[ripe obsidian]

Each day I slip closer to rejecting the weakness of my flesh

[pale prairie]

Oops I already thought you were skitarii

[ripe obsidian]

Is that Hungarian? Or Czech, maybe?

[upper sun]

broken hungarian

[ripe obsidian]

I think Skitarii have no free will

[upper sun]

it depends on the story

some show them as just shells some show them as normal troops who love to gamble and fuck around

[pale prairie]

Well….do you?

[ripe obsidian]

My understanding was that they have more awareness than Servitors, but Tech Priests have the final say

[ripe obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-sad-beep-r2d2-head-shake-gif-12923138

[upper sun]

ye ive heard it both ways too

[pale prairie]

Huh that is more the grim dark I was expecting

[strong gulch]

My protein bar shat itself in its wrapper. Goo all over.

[pale prairie]

Six you would be my favorite droid

[pale prairie]

The kind of content I come to Psyker Class for

[upper sun]

like in one of the ironfist books? they were pretty much robots getting direct commands from tech priests while in some cain books they were shown as normal troops getting orders from tech priests rather than direct comands

[ripe obsidian]

Consistency in canon, it seems, is heresy

[upper sun]

id like to think its just how different forges make them

some make them fully lobotomized some make let them stay a bit human-y

[ripe obsidian]

I got the tech priest in Rogue Trader. He's absurdly strong, and I don't know enough about the system to know why. But nothing survives his onslaught

[upper sun]

🚬 you must have built him a lot better than i did

[ripe obsidian]

When I played Mechanicus, I saved all the Skitarii I could

[ripe obsidian]

I gave him a sniper rifle and lots of Exploit abilities

[pale prairie]

He’s so fun when built into melta

[ripe obsidian]

Question: why could I not take the melta from Mort's body?

Gib gun

Also, give Skitarius class, Fatshark.

[pale prairie]

I’d pay for that. Though I don’t know how you would make it feel unique

[ripe obsidian]

They mentioned prototyping an equipment system with Arbites, where different nodes changed your appearance. Some of the names still reflect that.

[pale prairie]

Pfffff man that’s pie in the sky. I can’t imagine how much that much customization would break the game

I love the concept but the fact they took 3 years to improve the buff bar and their “improvement” broke the game….i dunno

I do like the idea that it’s a class about upgrading yourself

Hmmmm maybe like a techie AoE focus class? Lots of melta/flames/rad gun abilities for big horde clear and then an alternative path for high single target DPS with like sniper stuff or marksman rifle

[ripe obsidian]

Just for reference:

"Another thing is that at one point, a chunk of the tree was dedicated to talents about picking your Arbites’ armour, based on various options from the lore or tabletop. So you’d pick things like what kind of visor your Arbites wore, or from what areas was the gear made, and so on. In the end we weren’t happy with how that was turning out in practice, but it was an interesting aspect that we explored."

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/introducing-dev-blog-arbites-talent-tree/108825

[pale prairie]

Oh for sure I believe that they thought about it. Then tried to implement it and realized it was gonna be a pain in the ass

[strong gulch]

Maybe I should stop dying.

[tulip kettle]

welp, we tried

[deft stump]

Uprising train?

[ripe obsidian]

Or that cosmetics make money. Why give it away for free? Clash between developers and producers

[strong gulch]

I forget train exists. lmao

maybe I will remember this time

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/keyandpeele-i-didnt-realize-that-was-an-option-option-gif-8030398

[tulip kettle]

@hearty wolf and now you see why i said i would leave when i saw boudica

[pale prairie]

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head there

[upper sun]

why do you think i always kms at the end?

NO CONTRACTS FOR ANYONE

[deft stump]

Is just... fast so... less chances of potatoing.

[hearty wolf]

He's an adventurer but it didn't cause the wipe ultimately

[upper sun]

I will not enable melk casino

[tulip kettle]

this is a new one to me

adventurer

[deft stump]

Why you tell Clad to go solo.

[pale prairie]

Whoa save some fangirls/boys for the rest of us hot stuff

[upper sun]

🚬 ive had hundreds of games where people die in sedition for no reason

now its your turn

(im kidding but not really)

contracts should rely on your team

or get spoiled by bots

[pale prairie]

Shroudfield zealot?

[pale prairie]

This feels…. Like a slur

[deft stump]

Look, you die in sedation. The bots carry there.

[tulip kettle]

nah he was book zealot but just a really bad player

[deft stump]

You potato is like you dummy.

[pale prairie]

Sedation is actually a killer nickname for that difficulty

[tulip kettle]

ive seen him a few times

[pale prairie]

Whoa is Karien flaming me?

Just called me a potato dummy

[deft stump]

WDYM? I WAS JUST EXPLAINING!

[pale prairie]

Ooof yeah I havent really gotten around to remembering names in here yet but in my MOBA game the anxiety is real.

“Wait that name is familiar……it’s probably a sign of something bad…”

[pale prairie]

Karien I am sorry I am not as good as you! I’ll try harder

[tulip kettle]

for context, sin's dog did more than half the dmg the zealot did

[ripe obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-gif-25362459

[strong gulch]

Some of us can only do baby damage.

[glossy ember]

what's a good melee weapon for bosses ?

if any

[raven mountain]

FGS. Devil Claw if you can ensure that they're only swinging at you—parries go hard as long as you can keep them happening.

[upper sun]

ds4,deimos kinda, and fgs

[pale prairie]

I mean dog can be mvp…. Yeah that’s sad

[raven mountain]

I always feel bad when my dog out damages players. Like, damn.

[glossy ember]

thanks

[pale prairie]

I mean the dog can’t be killed….and can explode or electrify. I mean it’s pretty damn good

[raven mountain]

And bleed, and stun, and brittle, and has a ton of added damage in the abilities. It's still pretty feelsbad for that player though.

[wind wind]

Hány kurzus lesz? Nehézek lesznek

[pale prairie]

Yeah for sure. What makes me sad is when half of the damage of an arbiter is their dog and they just barely edge me out of those yellow numbers

[wind wind]

This one is such a mixed bag. Can happen in the very first game you play or take 25 attempts 💀

[tulip kettle]

ultimately i dont really care about the yellow numbers

[strong gulch]

when it's 6 😭

[ripe obsidian]

It is noble and right to die for the Emperor. This contract is heretical.

[tulip kettle]

but they do give you some idea about how involved in the game people are

[ripe obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/sesame-street-count-six-count6-countsix-gif-25834667

[pale prairie]

Exactly I am using it as a metric for how I can improve or if a build idea I am using is working

[ripe obsidian]

https://imgflip.com/i/a4bjjs

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/ironman-too-much-to-ask-for-both-why-not-have-both-all-gif-16636810

[nocturne dust]

Kinda, yeah

[strong gulch]

What about to judge yourself but also not really improve?

[nocturne dust]

I'll wait to judge teammates on it until scoreboard can quantify the usefulness of damage, taunting, and positioning. You can have the highest damage in a match and be the literal worst player there.

[deft stump]

I mean, we know I'm trash and sucks at improving, so rely on panic hard.

[strong gulch]

I was rewatching a thing and look at the double book bros.

[marble crater]

The self hate is strong in Karien

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-yellow-gif-12747952

[deft stump]

If you bring book zealot while I am on zealot, expect a whole lot of double books.

[nocturne dust]

Karien just has adrenaline tiger mom energy. Panic makes them strong enough to lift cars.

[strong gulch]

Double the stories.

[pale prairie]

Too true

[pale prairie]

What is better than one story time? Two story times

[deft stump]

Am I evil now? (Self)Hate strong enough for it?

[pale prairie]

Nah you’re just a sith

[marble crater]

Can't wait for Karien to carry me in super helldives

[nocturne dust]

@hearty wolf are we gaming or should I go cook spaget

[deft stump]

Wot, nu. Survival instincts panic.

[ripe obsidian]

Hard to quantify such things without getting super into the weeds. Taunt: how many enemies on average, of what types, did the stagger stop specials/overheads, how much damage did you redirect over the time period, etc. I am not disagreeing, is just hard.

[upper sun]

8, szerentem nem

[wind wind]

Yeah, not doing that one. Same with the 16 grimmoires. Fuck you Melk

[deft stump]

3 books at the same time?

[upper sun]

egyik nem csinaltam az elso szemeserben es ketto nyelv orak

[pale prairie]

“Must protect the people I am carrying! Must rescue them from BonBon!”

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-jack-nicholson-yes-yes-nod-head-nod-gif-17444176260167585294

[deft stump]

I don't have it nor willing to drop $120 on it.

[wind wind]

van kedvenc?

[pale prairie]

Holy goddamn regional pricing

[deft stump]

I don't carry.

[pale prairie]

You carry me though

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, there's certainly a way to do it but you'd need a huge amount of convoluting statistics to properly extrapolate "usefulness" which is not feasible.

[deft stump]

I don't. Unless we are somehow doing heresy and I'm on Arby or Vet.

[nocturne dust]

Well, not feasible to a normal meat brain. You could probably train a ML model on it

[wind wind]

Milyen nyelveket? És mérnökként nyelveket?

[upper sun]

nem mindint, uncsi lesz

[pale prairie]

Faith is power. My faith in Karien helps me perform better. I am carried on her positive panic vibes

[deft stump]

Yeah... so nope. Might have price dropped, but that was release price. Never bothered to check.

[upper sun]

nem, "angol beszeles"

[deft stump]

What in the nine karking hells...

[wind wind]

Igen, jo ertem

[wispy bay]

Just give her the game at that point if you want to play with her.

[pale prairie]

Hmmmm I wonder if it would be less taxing on her rig than Darktide

[marble crater]

120 doesn't sound right, you are telling me it's 3x the price for you?

In real dollars?

[wind wind]

Is this already harrasment lmao?

[glossy ember]

dropped a shock maul on psyker i wasn't even aware you could use it on this class lmao

[upper sun]

she wants to buy bonds too instead of playing the game

[deft stump]

I don't have space, between payday 2, crime boss, DOTA2 and DT... RIP.

[deft stump]

SGD.

[upper sun]

delete payday 2, crime boss and dota2

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-treyclipcity-we-created-this-look-around-gif-145100128686305580

[deft stump]

Is like $80-$90 USD.

[marble crater]

Well nobody cares about SGD though

[wind wind]

Miért ? Nem beszélsz már angolul, ugye?

[pale prairie]

What the heck is crime boss

[deft stump]

I'll go look at current prices.

[deft stump]

Crime Boss Rockay City. Payday 3 but better/worse.

Also roguelite.

[upper sun]

konnyu credit lesz

[ripe obsidian]

I don't know coding well enough to do it, I think. I would probably just copy the Wildfire logic and try to use that to record all taunted enemies or something, as well as their animation/action states, then record it in a table. Then ???

Not sure how I would do it in practice, even if the theory exists

[glossy ember]

holy shit this is a fun weapon

what the hell is this special

[marble crater]

Agreed

[glossy ember]

electrocuting stab probably very useless

[pale prairie]

Grab some of the smite passives to really maximize the zap zap

[glossy ember]

maximum zapness

[deft stump]

I checked, $55 for base, $80 for Citizen.

[upper sun]

im taking english speaking classes because the UNI isnt giving me hungarian classes

gonna learn to speak at a b2 level (i have a c1 certificate)

[glossy ember]

i'll be honest idek what the shock on melee node does for smite

[marble crater]

Real dollars or SGD?

[deft stump]

SGD currently.

I peeped into the store.

[wind wind]

Persze. Te lusta dög 😂

[upper sun]

i legit didnt have the option to sign up for hungarian classes

[ripe obsidian]

And you're already better at English than most Americans.

[pale prairie]

It does nothing. It’s just a “look see we have you new nodes that don’t really make sense or connect to the other melee stuff”

[wind wind]

Miért?

[marble crater]

So not nearly as bad as the 120 you said

[marble crater]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-not-that-impressive-jason-sudeikis-floyd-30rock-not-impressed-gif-19240045

[deft stump]

I was thinking Citizen edition.

[strong gulch]

I only have English and tbh I'm not amazing at it.

[upper sun]

i couldnt sign up on the system the classes showed zero credits and no time table

[wind wind]

No offense, but that bar is so low my grandpa could jump over it. And he has been dead for over a decade 💀

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/speechless-gif-14901494

[upper sun]

either way like last time i am going to make my classmates hurt

[deft stump]

I like having complete games. The whole pay for warbonds or grind to heck turned me off it.

[wind wind]

Wtf?

Only in uni moment

[nocturne dust]

You would need to take into account relative positionings, lines of sight, and the map as well. You would also need to know the success/failure rate of said positionings/lines of sight, and then that in relation to the specific build a player is running in order to determine usefulness. It's a lot of data required.

[marble crater]

You are on a list now...

[upper sun]

i will use every fucking synonym i know in my vocab to make them cry

[wind wind]

vér a véristenért

[marble crater]

You know that you don't have to do that part, right?

[pale prairie]

Clad I think is evil

[marble crater]

Of course he is, look at his mustache

[upper sun]

i am a product of the system

[deft stump]

And miss out on game affecting content?

[upper sun]

i wanted hungarian classes, i couldnt get them so the only choice is to make people HURT

[deft stump]

Yeah right.

[glossy ember]

amazing

[pale prairie]

Show me where they hurt you with the English synonyms

[deft stump]

That part is the worst kind of fomo.

[upper sun]

right in the midrif

[deft stump]

Also, I knew it.

[marble crater]

Midrif is nice though

[deft stump]

Citizen edition was $135 for some time.

[strong gulch]

Sounds like higher class white women from 50s US movies.

[deft stump]

So was why I thought it was in the $120 range.

[wind wind]

I actually did the same once. Needed to do two language courses and i took english B2 because thats what the online test said my level was (that test is bullshit).

3 sessions in the teacher asks me what the fuck im doing here and says i have at least C1 or even C2.

I continued to correct my classmates at every turn. Whole group hated me at end of the semester

[pale prairie]

So you’re saying Clad is like an upper class white woman?

[upper sun]

peak

[marble crater]

I bought the normal edition for 40€

[wind wind]

Right in the Legion 😉😂

[strong gulch]

Coded that way it seems. Not waspy enough tho.

[deft stump]

That's still $55.

I have a budget of $6 last I checked.

[wind wind]

Best class of my life. Didnt study for the final exam and aced the shit extra credit and no mistakes

[pale prairie]

I dunno sometimes he gets so pissed at the game I think he wants to speak to Fatshark’s manager

[deft stump]

Actually, $9.96.

[upper sun]

🚬 yeah maybe i can convince the teacher to teach me hungarian since all students eventually skip language electives

[deft stump]

Find a cheaper game.

[marble crater]

I mean that's a good reason, but you made it sound 3x more expensive than it actually is

[wind wind]

[deft stump]

As said, it was $135 at some point in time for the Citizen edition.

[wind wind]

Youre in hungary. Bribe her

[upper sun]

🚬 maybe

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/woah-family-guy-peter-griffin-stop-no-more-gif-10171318069740925020

[marble crater]

Fine, but you are now banned from using $ unless you are actually talking about USD, because that's what everyone assumes

[deft stump]

I basically only remember the "complete" not complete ver,

[deft stump]

Our currency is also $.

[wind wind]

Or seduce her

Whatever is more convenient

[pale prairie]

I mean sounds like you don’t like the game either so no worries

[strong gulch]

USA is the main character somehow and wasn't even in the convo. 😭

[ripe obsidian]

This is more work than I care to try to coach GPT into doing for me.

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-spy-gif-12808677430600108657

[marble crater]

Yeah, but people think of USD and not SGD and there is a big difference between those

[pale prairie]

I banish you to zealot chat

[marble crater]

Sadly it's true

[pale prairie]

Wait I thought everybody here was American…..

[strong gulch]

$ is also CAD.

Fecking US waving its D everywhere.

[marble crater]

Nope, thank god

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/colonel-fatzipanzten-tf2-medic-spy-disguise-gif-7034051972058000564

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-gif-7523306793289960933

[deft stump]

More, the IAP. I REALLY HATE that style. Is feels like a free2play style thing but in an already expensive game.

[marble crater]

I'm sure there are a few more that use the same symbol, not very creative really, smh

[strong gulch]

WAIT.

I forgot the 3 psykers in here. There's Karien, Agent, and what's the third? We are all varients of those. Uneven market share at any rate.

[marble crater]

Sin was the third

For some reason, dude doesn't even play psyker

[strong gulch]

RIGHT

[pale prairie]

Well what should it be instead? A whole continent uses Euro

[strong gulch]

I mean, that fits. lmao

[marble crater]

Yeah, but it's the same currency

[deft stump]

I'm a karking Vet main, WDYM?

[nocturne dust]

Me on scriers EK 🥸

[marble crater]

It's not German Euro, French Euro and Spanish Euro all with different values

[pale prairie]

Alright but how about German Swiss, French Swiss, Italian Swiss?

[deft stump]

The chocolate?

[marble crater]

I refuse to acknowledge the Swiss Germans

[pale prairie]

But you acknowledge the Austrians….

Is Bavaria a part of Germany?

[nocturne dust]

You could call them Swimans or Germiss.

[marble crater]

Austrians I am able to understand when I focus, Swiss Germans are using a made up version of German

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/the-dutch-amsterdam-goldmember-austin-powers-nigel-powers-gif-12250523

[pale prairie]

Oh like French Canadians and regular French

[marble crater]

Serious answer: yes
Actual answer: sadly yes, but we don't claim them

[strong gulch]

Found it. The 3 psykers we are all variants of.

Karien carries.

Agent falls off cliffs.

Sin presses W.

[marble crater]

Makes sense

[nocturne dust]

What about the guy who presses S

[marble crater]

I'd rather not call them at all

[strong gulch]

Falling back

Agent

[deft stump]

I barely play psyker. Unless you let me play my blatantly questionably OP RP char.

[deft stump]

I DO NOT CARRY!!!

[radiant frigate]

i am at best honorary american

for now

[marble crater]

Potato doesn't lie

[pale prairie]

Have you ever eaten a corn dog?

[wispy bay]

Potato flies without wings!

[deft stump]

You all gaslit him!

[strong gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-king-toss-bye-gif-4963915

[radiant frigate]

no but i quite enjoy spam mac'n'cheese

[marble crater]

Are you planning to sacrifice your boyfriend?

[deft stump]

You mean, oops, you have failed TS.

[radiant frigate]

no but I'll be moving there eventually

[marble crater]

I would never

[marble crater]

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/adventure-time-i-find-your-proposal-acceptable-cartoon-network-gif-17660985

[pale prairie]

Or are you gaslighting him into believing you don’t carry?

[marble crater]

Aha!

[deft stump]

I simply don't carry.

[modest perch]

you are hawaiian

[strong gulch]

As an American, chili mac is probably for dinner.

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-it-with-my-own-eyes-gru-steve-carell-despicable-me-witness-gif-16561219

[upper sun]

imma be real americans COOKED with jalapeno poppers

best thing america ever made

[marble crater]

Oh I see, Karien is not carrying on purpose when playing with some people to keep up the plausible deniability

[deft stump]

You have not. Nobody saw anything.

[pale prairie]

False we’ve made better stuff. But it is good shit

[strong gulch]

Ever put em on a burger?

[radiant frigate]

counterpoint: southern bbq

[deft stump]

And no, carrying heresy doesn't count.

I think most ppl here can do it.

[marble crater]

Like what? Stuff that is save to eat?

[upper sun]

yeee i love jalapeno burgers something about the chemical taste of plastic cheese and pickled jalapenos makes burgers amazing

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/phoenix-wright-ace-attorney-witness-testimony-frank-sahwit-gif-22862752

[marble crater]

I can't carry heresy, I would have to actually play it

[radiant frigate]

when the cheese only tastes slightly of cheese 👌🏻

[deft stump]

You did though.

[marble crater]

@radiant frigatewhat will you do about bread, if you move to the US?

[strong gulch]

Processed cheese food. The non fruit orange flavor.

[pale prairie]

Barbecue, fusion food (Korean Mexican is pretty fucking fire), American pizza

[radiant frigate]

suffer

maybe learn to bake bread

[deft stump]

Or just eat sugar loaf then.

[radiant frigate]

what the hell is sugar loaf

[pale prairie]

Enlighten me on German bread

[strong gulch]

Our "bread" on the shelf. (actually just terrible cake)

[marble crater]

I would learn to bake bread as well, yeah

[radiant frigate]

it's real

[marble crater]

You see German bread is actually bread and not cake

[deft stump]

American 'bread'.

[radiant frigate]

the thing you call "bread" we call "toast"

[pale prairie]

You guys see too many shows on wonder bread.

[radiant frigate]

american toast is pretty normal actually

in my experience

[marble crater]

No idea what that is, but also what Kat said

[pale prairie]

Wait so cake?

[strong gulch]

To be fair tho, most cakes are just quick breads.

Surgar content is an aside.

[marble crater]

You don't toast bread, you toast toast

[radiant frigate]

i mean occasionally i toast bread but it's a rarity

[pale prairie]

You guys are treating English like smykers are the psyker class in havoc 40

[radiant frigate]

and we don't usually buy toast

baguette good too

[deft stump]

Well, American 'bread' sugar content is like in cakes.

[upper sun]

i just nuke bread in the micro

[marble crater]

Bread also has to be darker than my skin color, otherwise I won't eat it

[pale prairie]

Depends on the bread

[upper sun]

who has time for toasting like seriously

[strong gulch]

#psyker-class message

[radiant frigate]

not all of it

[pale prairie]

So darker than bleached chalk?

Can’t be hard

[deft stump]

I mean the avg sliced bread loaf in plastic bags.

[radiant frigate]

i'm extremely white so this is not a problem

[pale prairie]

Typical WoW player

[marble crater]

It's not, my point is more that white bread is not great

[radiant frigate]

average Pumpernickel enjoyer

[deft stump]

I know, but the avg ones are like that to be as addictive as possible.

[strong gulch]

but also quick bread is any bread leavened with a chemical leavening agent rather than a biological one like yeast or sourdough starter

which most cakes fall under

also an american term that most americans don't know about or use lmao

[pale prairie]

I love a good sourdough or baguette though

[pale prairie]

True

[marble crater]

Baguette is fine, just don't tell the Fr*nch I said that

[glossy ember]

what do the shock maul enjoyers run here...

[radiant frigate]

if you witnessed as much ineptitude as i do, you'd be pale too

[glossy ember]

weapon blessing and perks wise

[pale prairie]

You are correct madam

[marble crater]

I'm not sure if there are any shock maul enjoyers

[glossy ember]

[pale prairie]

I thought it was something something Underdark elf lifestyle

[wind wind]

Judging the Swiss i am certain they are happy with that

That people is the embodiement of the old grumpy rich neighbor who calls the cops on you for using the toilet after 22:00

[marble crater]

But Drow have dark skin

[radiant frigate]

i don't own any pleasure slaves so no

[deft stump]

You would be dark then to blend in though.

[pale prairie]

I said lifestyle not genetics

[strong gulch]

iirc
lighting reflexes and high voltage
maniac and ??
dump mobility

[pale prairie]

And they say Germans are detail oriented

[wind wind]

Legally.... but Austria can have'em

Arrogant HuSos

[marble crater]

[glossy ember]

noted ty

[radiant frigate]

somebody once told me "Deutschland ist ein eitriges Geschwür am prächtigen Oasch von Bayern"

[glossy ember]

im guessing combos are L1 H2 for crowd and H1 L2 for single

[strong gulch]

no clue

[wispy bay]

Anyone game?

[verbal thistle]

SC hammerblow

[wind wind]

Burn that Bundesland to the ground.

[verbal thistle]

dont member combos

[marble crater]

We can give Bavaria to Austria

[strong gulch]

SG?

[verbal thistle]

skullcrusher

[wispy bay]

Shock maul?

[wind wind]

Works with me. Bundesliga gonna be happy that the Dauermeister's gonna be gone for good finally

[wispy bay]

It is H1 L1 for clear, H2 is followed by H2 again, so it is just overhead.

[marble crater]

@radiant frigatethere you have it, Bavaria is your problem now, good luck

[pale prairie]

The tribe has spoken

[radiant frigate]

splendid, now we can beat you at football

[glossy ember]

thanks, didn't even realize there were more than one type

[pale prairie]

But you said you have a bf…..

[radiant frigate]

yeah but that's consensual

[wind wind]

Small sacrifice compared to what we gain.

[glossy ember]

mine came with thrust and hammerblow, i don't have any levels on it

[wispy bay]

You gaslited them into consensual, is that really consent?

[strong gulch]

Also if Ainz says something different than what I posted, just go with that.
I lift info from Athenium. Y'all know how that is.

I know lighting reflexes and high voltage are from begore SG was buffed.

Also, this rec might be needed with a particular way to play it (the graphic posted some messages up #psyker-class message)

[summer prairie]

which guide is this

[marble crater]

Blaming the Athenium, classic

[strong gulch]

athenium

[pale prairie]

Psyker Atheneum

[summer prairie]

oh, I never read it that far

[pale prairie]

The move sets from other weapons match what I have heard hear so figured it can’t be far off or at least something to experiment with

[strong gulch]

At the very least it's a direction to go in. 🫡

IDK enough about the weapon and defaulted to the same source. I could have checked Vet guide, but that is not geared towards us.

[glossy ember]

oh right i forgot about the guide

[pale prairie]

Exactly. Besides maining this weapon is gonna be more about fun than about beating havoc 40

[marble crater]

You can't beat h40 with psyker anyway, we need buffs

[strong gulch]

A lot of people have. It's not pinned anymore due to update issues.

[tulip kettle]

it truly is impossible.

[glossy ember]

makes sense

couldn't find it in the pin

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/im-weak-bug-bunny-flexing-no-muscle-gif-7614629

[nocturne dust]

True, I've never seen a psyker complete h40. It's just not possible.

[tulip kettle]

just had the starkest difference in 2 arbs with the same build in our H40 run

[pale prairie]

We need a buddy system. No psyker allowed outside of the Mourningstar without an Ogryn or arbiter minder

[pale prairie]

I don’t really care about yellow numbers though…..

[tulip kettle]

me neither

and neither of those ar eme

[marble crater]

Sorry it was me

[tulip kettle]

but this is a prime example of "it gives some indication"

[pale prairie]

Wow for certain it was same build?

[tulip kettle]

yes

[zealous wing]

proof that build and skill arent the same thing?

[pale prairie]

Maaaaaybe one of them was just able to get there faster

First to bonk

Server side lag

[marble crater]

Now that's just nonsense. Build = skill. You can't play well without a meta build. Smh

[strong gulch]

And this is why I get annoyed at the "build is everything" mindset.

or "I saw a really cracked player running this build so it's all I run"

[tulip kettle]

ah, so if i run a meta build i will play well

[pale prairie]

Yeah!…..pssst that’s why we laugh at bad ones right?

[zealous wing]

well yeah just look at me, had a shit build, got a better build, play well, but if you just give some random person a meta build and they dont know how to use it...

[strong gulch]

Part of this game is build and that's the easiest to "fix" when someone is having issues.

But it ain't all of it

[pale prairie]

Hey I ain’t above stealing a build to try it out

[tulip kettle]

i could copy the meta build on every class but psyker and would 100% still suck at it

[strong gulch]

That's different.

[strong gulch]

MEEEEEEEEEEE

[pale prairie]

Yeah give Karien back their book build

[strong gulch]

Buying "pro" equipment for a hobby or DIY.

[deft stump]

Did Beans actually try it?

[upper sun]

not tru

[pale prairie]

I could have sworn they did

[strong gulch]

Probably??

[upper sun]

you only play badly when i'm on the team

[deft stump]

Just look at his toughness, if 55... yeah...

[strong gulch]

I don't remember.

[tulip kettle]

kariens book build is super forbidden

[strong gulch]

I think I have it saved as a loadout

[strong gulch]

[marble crater]

Naturally!

[pale prairie]

Classic case of skill making anything work

[strong gulch]

Maybe I should play zealot more so they buff it.

[pale prairie]

“Dear Fatshark this is clip 679 of me playing zealot and dying cause the class sucks”

[deft stump]

If you used Toughness, it might be okay but then you lose hp breakpoint to maybe eat an overhead worth of corruption.

[sturdy reef]

fartshark pls buff zealot tyvm

I need the vet and zealot tree reworks though, both are kinda balls

[tulip kettle]

oh im not doubting its good and i know you have perfected it and its HP/ stam based

[deft stump]

Nu. What skill? Panic!

[sturdy reef]

when the psyker tree update comes out people will probably lose their shit though

[strong gulch]

I don't think I have the proper Karien curios tho. I should change that

[tulip kettle]

but its forbidden for anyone else to play it because we arent as good as you and will die.

[pale prairie]

Your panic = other people’s skill

You are not the same

[deft stump]

It's not good, it's dumb niche

[marble crater]

It's true, I tried a Karien psyker build once and died

[pale prairie]

Somebody told me that curios don’t matter though

[strong gulch]

my 100+ builds getting deleted (trust they are all different 😭 )

[deft stump]

That's a bad idea. Beans, 55 toughness is very spicy.

[sturdy reef]

I am eager to see what they do to psyker

[pale prairie]

When the arbiter balance update comes…

[sturdy reef]

pls buff the staff nodes

[strong gulch]

They do if following a recipe.

[marble crater]

If they remove Psy Aura, we riot

[sturdy reef]

arbiter and ogryn nerfs

[tulip kettle]

L take. everyone knows blessed bullet is better than scrap of scripture

[sturdy reef]

dont overbuff vet and zealot with new tree diversity

although that'll probably happen anyway

[deft stump]

But I'm terrible at it so there.

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-oprahs-bank-account-meme-laptop-gif-20803826

[deft stump]

Nu. No skill. Bad reflexes.

[marble crater]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-humble-drax-dave-bautista-guardians-of-the-galaxy-gif-14242314

[zealous wing]

im so tired i took you seriously for like 15s trying to figure out why

[pale prairie]

YES SKILL.

Your bad reflexes = other people’s best day

You are not the same

[tulip kettle]

the best players all say how bad they are

[marble crater]

Not me, I am one of the best players

[deft stump]

Nu! I play heresy.

[tulip kettle]

i am also one of the best at this game

[pale prairie]

True I idolize you

I have posters and everything

[strong gulch]

Cat just bullied me into hugs.

[tulip kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/willie-wonka-no-stop-don't-gif-11221097651805665906

[marble crater]

I asked them to get rid of those and not sell them

[pale prairie]

Even the greatest heroes deserve a quiet retirement

[deft stump]

They play aurics, you know.

[pale prairie]

You can’t stop the fandom. Really took off after that clip of you falling off a balcony and dying like agent

[pale prairie]

Real heroes don’t feel the need to prove themselves

[tulip kettle]

i liked the swimwear collection, personally

[marble crater]

Blocking the fall damage didn't work, hardly my fault

[pale prairie]

Yeah but it’s too baggy on me around the you know what. Cause he’s such a chad

[pale prairie]

Absolutely great take sir! It’s the games fault!

[marble crater]

[buoyant maple]

I’m not sure if it’s even planned at the moment

There’s zero talk about it

[pale prairie]

I am sure they have the concepts of a plan

[sturdy reef]

Im just assuming

[marble crater]

But... our buffs

[sturdy reef]

Yes

Buff psyker

[buoyant maple]

Zealot is officially talked about
Veteran is being talked about

[sturdy reef]

Imagine

[buoyant maple]

Psyker’s change would have to be majority nerfs on damage

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-fry-philip-j-fry-dont-say-that-dont-ever-say-that-gif-22625340

[marble crater]

He is out of line and not right

[buoyant maple]

To make anywhere near a good psyker tree rework majority would have to be nerfs

[marble crater]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-obi-wan-kenobi-it-cant-be-cant-be-true-it-cant-be-true-gif-16997246

[sturdy reef]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-star-wars-sad-crying-skywalker-gif-12607558

[upper sun]

theres no way to nerf psyker rn without making it useless

imagine being a glass canon that cant do damage

[nocturne dust]

I genuinely think this is untrue, because survivability matters way more than the leet Discord experts give it credit

[buoyant maple]

There is

[upper sun]

id much rather play arby or ogryn rn even in auric

[sturdy reef]

Nerfing psykers damage too much effectively hamstrings it

[upper sun]

psyker is just good because of the density scalling take that away and its useless

[strong gulch]

If they significantly nerf psyker damage, leave oggy and arby damage so high, and don't give spyker better survivability, I'm gonna be upset.

[nocturne dust]

And also Arby and Ogryn exist, so you would need to also argue that they both need a nerf. Which is a position you can have, but you can't just single out only Psyker at this point.

[buoyant maple]

I think I’ve talked about it before but I’d greatly prefer if psyker had actually interesting consequences from peril

Ex: talents that give extra defence/sustain at low peril, and talents that reduce defence/sustain but massively boost damage at high peril

[mighty agate]

Don't nerf, ascend psyker/vet to level of ogryn/arby

[sturdy reef]

Thats basically a rework

[pale prairie]

But overall lower damage?

[buoyant maple]

Weaker vs density than current

[nocturne dust]

That doesn't sound like a nerf necessarily, just a change in... vibe? Play? Something like that.

[buoyant maple]

It’s to address multiple problems at the same time

[sturdy reef]

Psykers entire identity is highest dmg potential, lowest defense

[pale prairie]

I mean the density strength is really a combination of just one/two talents and the flame staff

[buoyant maple]

But most of the nerf is nerfing what psyker does best atm

So overall it is a damage nerf

[strong gulch]

I am interested in some mechanic changes or different ways to play.

[buoyant maple]

I think psyker can be significantly more interesting than “I edge 24/7 to the goon god”

[pale prairie]

I could live with some damage nerfing if it gives some tankiness or survivability increases

[wind wind]

you shut your mouth or i'll shut it for you

[nocturne dust]

I'm always interested in different ways to play.

Unchained when

[pale prairie]

At the moment though the damage right now is the only way to justify how absolutely tissue paper we are

[wind wind]

Never

[deft stump]

But they just slack there. Auric is having to actually do things.

[buoyant maple]

Slightly more details
Example

Stable
+30%toughness gain at <50% peril
+50% toughness gain from melee kills at <50% peril
x60~100% TDR which decreases as peril increases

Unstable
+20% crit chance to warp attacks but x125% toughness damage taken at >50% peril
+15%str to warp attacks at >50% peril

Smth better for single target would be good too

But density scaling needs to be nerfed

Also EE needs to be nerfed

Prob make it crit-weakspot only

[buoyant maple]

There is no justification for psyker’s current kit

[nocturne dust]

other than 2 other classes setting a precedent of such power.

[buoyant maple]

They don’t have as good kit as psyker, unironically

Most of their overpowered stuff is just stat stick

Psyker’s op stuff are all mechanics based

[tulip kettle]

braces for 13% tough per second

[buoyant maple]

Exactly, stat stick

Numbers are wack

[nocturne dust]

Those mechanics ultimately rely on numbers.

You could cap soulblaze to 1 stack and suddenly Psyker is crap. You could alter the damage, you could change spread radius of soulblaze stuff, etc. etc.. It's all numbers.

[tulip kettle]

so EE ( evade for 1 second on crit) is unfair as a survivability vs shooters but simply bracing your gun isnt?

i dont understand

[buoyant maple]

Yes, and there’s still a very significant difference between damage bonus talents giving too much and having 3 different tools that completely bypass a core game mechanic

[nocturne dust]

That's fine in my book, though. Mechanics exist to be messed with.

I don't want every class to treat mechanics the same.

Psyker plays the most differently out of every class, which is good.

[buoyant maple]

Steady grip is not enough on its own to tank multiple ranged elites at the same time

Psyker can

[tulip kettle]

always counts as dodging while sprinting

[strong gulch]

Most of staff psyker relies heavily on DoTs; but that get's stymied by frontloaded damage.

[sturdy reef]

Fotf can

[tulip kettle]

idk, i play psyker and feel like i have to be very thoughtful and deliberate with what i need to do at every moment and if i make a mistake, i die

[sturdy reef]

Bull rush can

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile ogryn go bonk

[sturdy reef]

EE is not a problem

[nocturne dust]

Yeah

[sturdy reef]

You have to spec into crit for it to work with great consistency

[strong gulch]

I do worry about making EE weakspot crits only because most of staff gameplay does not hit weakspots.

[tulip kettle]

it would be unuseable on everything except reconlas which doesnt particularly need it anyway

[buoyant maple]

That is the intended purpose

They shouldn’t

[sturdy reef]

No?

How is that the intended purpose

[nocturne dust]

Hey, yo, don't ever bring up 'intended purpose' again

You can't possibly know 'intended purpose'

[buoyant maple]

I’m saying my intended purpose of changing EE to crit-weakspot only is to make it incompatible with staff spam that don’t hit weakspots

How is that not??

[sturdy reef]

thats changing the purpose

[nocturne dust]

ah, your intended purpose, got it

[tulip kettle]

gotta say, i massively respect your knowledge and skill around the game but these takes are kinda terrible

[buoyant maple]

That’s the literal goal

[nocturne dust]

But your goal is stupid

[ripe obsidian]

So it becomes the Gunker ability?

Or just the return of LMB EK

[strong gulch]

I would hope there would be other changes to accommodate dealing with ranged aggressively.

Because as it is, I've had too many games where EE was the only thing that gave team mission progression.

As it is, you can't 100% rely on EE.

[tulip kettle]

exactly, its already a massive gamble

[sturdy reef]

EE must be specced into to make it 100% consistent

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile zealot "HERESY"

[nocturne dust]

EE isn't even that good on staves, so I don't see the issue

[tulip kettle]

charges the gunner blob

meanwhile ogryn "CANT STOP ME"

[buoyant maple]

It achieves 2 things

1. You need to think about what weapons ur using that can actually use it effectively
2. It requires u to roll crit RNG and aim at the same time to use it

[tulip kettle]

charges the gunner blob

[sturdy reef]

SG + crit aura and node + Crit blessing + weapon with good inherent crit like a heavy laspistol or tac axe

[ripe obsidian]

I have ~25% combat uptime on EE with a ~40% crit rate

[sturdy reef]

ya

[tulip kettle]

lol so 1 is already the case

[buoyant maple]

Nah

[sturdy reef]

making it weakpoint only makes it mid

[tulip kettle]

and 2 is just hard nerf for no reason

[strong gulch]

I don't want to judge terrible yet, because this is a single change is a vacuumed. Holistic systems and whatnot.

[ripe obsidian]

It makes the staves and weapons that are already good at dealing with ranged better.

[tulip kettle]

you cant say yesterday that EE is useless on voidblast

then today say EE is just thoughtless

[buoyant maple]

It is too good on inferno

[sturdy reef]

its not

[tulip kettle]

OH YOU MEAN

ON THE STAFF

[sturdy reef]

its the first tick on the rmb

if you spam lmb

[tulip kettle]

that has no other way to engage with shooters

[sturdy reef]

your damage suffers

[ripe obsidian]

They fixed that. EE can go on any tick

[tulip kettle]

just terrible take

honestly

[sturdy reef]

the first tick crits

[ripe obsidian]

Any tick can crit.

They fixed it a while ago

[buoyant maple]

U already do giga suppression with the weapon itself, and you already have normal game mechanics to avoid ranged attacks

[sturdy reef]

you're not close enough to shooters

for it to matter

EE is there so you dont just die without bubble

[nocturne dust]

It's so good on Inferno I don't even use it 🥸

[tulip kettle]

and even then its a hard gamble

that often doesnt pay off

meanwhile, AGAIN

CANT STOP ME

FOR THE GOD EMPEROR

[sturdy reef]

bull rush, FotF, even break the line

all better for shooters

[nocturne dust]

Arbie standing in his "melee can't hurt me" zone

[tulip kettle]

psyker is far, far from the strongest class.

[buoyant maple]

Nah

What

[ripe obsidian]

I mean, a Zealot can dodge shooters for infinite toughness. Ogryn can walk up and melee them for infinite toughness. Arbiter exists for infinite toughness. I think giving Psyker conditional damage mitigation is more interesting than just another "Press X for toughness" button

[sturdy reef]

I wouldnt say far

[tulip kettle]

its literally middle of the pack

[buoyant maple]

I’m ok with you disagreeing with EE

But psyker is genuinely busted on another level

[tulip kettle]

or you think its stronger than arb and ogryn?

no, it is not

[buoyant maple]

I think it’s significantly more busted mechanically

[tulip kettle]

what mechanically

[strong gulch]

I will say where EE does the hardest worth is with ranged units that can't be suppressed. 6 red reapers that no else will handle and it's a gamble.

[tulip kettle]

what do you even mean

so, i get 20% dmg for being at high peril?

[sturdy reef]

EE doesnt have the uptime to deal with red shooters

unless again

[buoyant maple]

Arb and ogryn are strong mainly because of absurd stat padding

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile other classes just, get that, all the time?

[sturdy reef]

you fully lean into crit

[buoyant maple]

Psyker is mechanically just busted

Trauma is giga stagger + ignores mass

[tulip kettle]

lol

[sturdy reef]

trauma doesnt have amazing damage

[tulip kettle]

so does bullrush

[strong gulch]

Crit RNG and the game sometimes reducing crit chance (though I can't remember if and how this applies to staves and purg in particular)

[buoyant maple]

Inferno ignores mass and does highest density clear in the game

[sturdy reef]

BTL does the same thing

as trauma

but better

[wind wind]

Can someone just imprison him?

Leave psyker alone, He is good the way he is

[tulip kettle]

yes, okay, so the class with the horde clear, that doesnt even remotely compete vs armour or bosses to other classes

wahh thats broken

what

[buoyant maple]

Bull rush runs on at best 15s CD without psyk aura to juice it

VB does that every 2s

[buoyant maple]

???

[tulip kettle]

my guy if the stuff is staggerable with voidblast its staggerable by any other class

idk what youre saying here

[buoyant maple]

Not nearly as frequently

[strong gulch]

Keep in mind that trauma can't keep the same knocked over target permanently staggered.

[sturdy reef]

VB isnt buffing your AS, it isnt regenning TGH, it isnt making you immune to fire during the cast

[buoyant maple]

Neither can anything else
Stagger immune window exists for a reason

[tulip kettle]

what?

right so either youre ignoring stagger immunity or youre not

[buoyant maple]

Are u seriously believing using ability is as frequent as using VB

[tulip kettle]

and if youre not, then any other class can do the same

you dont need ability

[ripe obsidian]

This touches on a sore spot for me. Let classes be good at things. I feel like a lot of suggested balance changes, across all games, not just this one, are in favor of stripping identity in the guise of balance. Psyker can output great AoE and CC, but dies to a strong breeze, has little boss damage if not gunker/meleeker, and generally relies on teammates to survive rough situations. Generally--we're not talking the Jsat or Ainz level folk.

[tulip kettle]

you literally just hit things

[strong gulch]

unless lighter stagger

[buoyant maple]

With what

[buoyant maple]

Each stagger stage has a corresponding stagger immune window

[nocturne dust]

Yeh, it's pretty cool.

It's more fun when things do weird things.

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile flamer does literally the exact same thing

[nocturne dust]

Grenades also ignore mass.

[buoyant maple]

With what?

[tulip kettle]

OH But FLaMeR UsEs AmMo

[strong gulch]

The lighter staggers don't meaningfully do this.

[sturdy reef]

guess we also need to nerf frag and impact nades too

[buoyant maple]

Yea and most of them need changes too

[tulip kettle]

its just bait and trolling

im convinced

[buoyant maple]

You said hit things

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-nerf-gun-full-combat-gear-gif-17402832

[buoyant maple]

With what

[nocturne dust]

Time to nerf

[buoyant maple]

What exactly matches VB in stagger

[tulip kettle]

dude

[buoyant maple]

Excluding ability

[tulip kettle]

something has to be the best stagger

[buoyant maple]

Hit things with what

[tulip kettle]

you understand that right

fucking bully club

[sturdy reef]

crusher doesnt even need to charge

lol

[tulip kettle]

arby shield

what do you want

[nocturne dust]

Ogryn shovel can stagger lock bosses my guy

[sturdy reef]

slap gryn

[ripe obsidian]

I mean, Voidblast is trading 2 seconds of downtime for mediocre damage and strong CC.

[buoyant maple]

1 single enemy at a time

[sturdy reef]

^

[buoyant maple]

VB does 30

[sturdy reef]

it works on bosses

[nocturne dust]

1 single boss is a lot more than VB

[sturdy reef]

VB does not

[wind wind]

I am telling you to get out of the kitchen because the stuff youre cooking is so burnt Anakin Skywalker after Mustafar is raw in comparison

[nocturne dust]

In fact, 1 single boss getting staggered is infinitely more than VB can do

[tulip kettle]

again, i respect your knowledge and skill at the game

but this is just such trash takes

[buoyant maple]

Arb shield has 2 attacks that can break rager combo and both have cleave distribution falloff

[acoustic jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-eating-popcorn-popcorn-plankton-meme-plankton-yes-gif-18251234252356731757

[sturdy reef]

VB doesnt have the damage to begin with

it relies on SB

[ripe obsidian]

Voidblast is strong. But it's a tradeoff. 2 seconds of slow movement, no blocking, bad dodges due to staff, and in exchange things fall over for a second or two.

[buoyant maple]

Crusher has a significantly lower explosion radius than VB

[sturdy reef]

it also kills shit

you go VB

[buoyant maple]

VB also kills things while keeping most dangerous enemies permanently staggered

[sturdy reef]

you rely on SB to do meaningful damage

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile you take VB and miss the gunner by a tiny amount, and you die

[sturdy reef]

VB has to be aimed and charged

[tulip kettle]

and no, it cant keep them perma staggered

[ripe obsidian]

I think crushers get 6 seconds of CC immunity

[tulip kettle]

it literally cant

[buoyant maple]

2.5

[nocturne dust]

Still enough to run up and bonk you

[tulip kettle]

2.5 after they have completely recovered from the animation

and i tell ya, you arent controlling the 20 crushers with VB

[zealous wing]

^ i ve had to be on secondary crusher duty in armour blobs

[tulip kettle]

they dont all stand in the tiny circle

and as for ragers

[sturdy reef]

VB without shriek and/or SB on crit is genuinely piss poor dps

the stagger is there to enable your team

and thats fine

[tulip kettle]

most of the time they will literally fucking ignore your VB if they arent right in the middle of it

[tulip kettle]

so yes, this

psyker has different utilities on different staffs

cool

thats the whole identity of the class

[sturdy reef]

like the stagger can also fuck positioning if you knock enemies behind your teammates

[zealous wing]

plus, barrels

[sturdy reef]

you have to consider chargetime with ogryns and actually aim

[ripe obsidian]

https://github.com/Aussiemon/Darktide-Source-Code/blob/f23235d2547a50adf1ad1cf6bdcb1af2f2a10333/scripts/settings/breed/breeds/chaos/chaos_ogryn_executor_breed.lua#L96

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile the rager train running at you does not give the slightest FUCK about your voidblast

[sturdy reef]

meanwhile other stagger heavy weapons can kill crushers faster

[ripe obsidian]

stagger_immune_times = {
        [stagger_types.light] = 3,
        [stagger_types.medium] = 4,
        [stagger_types.heavy] = 6,
        [stagger_types.explosion] = 4,
        [stagger_types.light_ranged] = 3,
        [stagger_types.sticky] = 0.25,
        [stagger_types.killshot] = 6,
    },

[buoyant maple]

Oh they changed it

Used to be 2.5

Now 3

Most things don’t ever reach heavy stagger on crusher

[ripe obsidian]

I was thinking 6 for the knockdown

[sturdy reef]

why is it a problem if VB does

[tulip kettle]

you stumble 3 of them, knock down 2, and the rest are now smacking you and you have your staff out

[sturdy reef]

if it can barely kill a crusher

[zealous wing]

ye the the heavy sounds like when i stab the crusher in the face with a deimos

takes a long time to get back up

[ripe obsidian]

Heavy should be when they fall over

[wind wind]

Why is the solution to everything no nerf something? Conversations like these piss me tf off, same with nerfing golden toughness or survivalist on vet. How about instead of destroying the things that are fun and unique we just make the game harder.

Also, most of the op factor only shows up with a minority of good players. The majority, the average shitters, are so bad they NEED every single bit of those numbers and mechanics to even get by.

I play auric damnation quickplay every day and there are SOOO MANY average dingleberries in there who die and cost me runs even WITH the "overpowered" builds.

Like please, everyone just shut the fuck up and let me have fun goddamnit

[ripe obsidian]

Light is a flinch

Medium is a stagger backward without falling

[sturdy reef]

medium is proper stagger

[tulip kettle]

not really, and we are discussing that after this happens, you cant do it again

[sturdy reef]

Id rather they didnt touch VB

if you nerf the stagger, it has nothing going for it almost

[tulip kettle]

i wish they fucking would

[buoyant maple]

A weapon that staggers 6+ crushers on demand that can be spammed significantly faster than every other stagger tool in the game, while being far safer, on the 1 class that largely ignores mass as a mechanic and has indefinite dps scaling into density

[tulip kettle]

and make it have max stacks on blaze of 12 like the melee version

AGAIN

FLAME WEAPONS

[sturdy reef]

the damage isnt very high

[tulip kettle]

ARE FLAME WEAPONS

FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF

[sturdy reef]

and the density doesnt matter

since the AoE is limited

you're not always going to full charge anyway

[buoyant maple]

The AoE is way bigger than it has any reason to be

[sturdy reef]

?

[buoyant maple]

And the stagger itself is way stronger than it has any reason to be

[sturdy reef]

okay

so what is it on par with

if you made your changes

[tulip kettle]

yeah im done here

[sturdy reef]

because it sounds to me like you are just hard nerfing it

[tulip kettle]

nonsense takes

we should just make the psyker good at nothing guys

[zealous wing]

im guessing next up is > we should give vet more AOE stuff

vet's got krak grenades, ogryns got bully clubs, arbite is just arby, why cant psyker have VB the way it is

[ripe obsidian]

I mean, it's a matter of class identity and focus points. Psyker with Inferno or VB is meant to do loads of damage/CC in an area at the cost of dying to mistakes, or flamers, or bombers, or single bruisers. In exchange, your team takes out bosses, specials, and armor, and they save you from the random ragers that flew out of nowhere.

Like, Ogryn bowls people over, ignores trash mobs, bonks crushers and bosses, etc. Is it fair to say that Ogryn toughness regen needs to be nerfed because it's one class that largely ignores damage?

[sturdy reef]

VB isnt doing damage unless you are running SB

its an enabler

[pale prairie]

Yeah I don’t understand the logic…so VB does too much damage, and stagger, and has too big of an AoE. Is there anything it CAN be good at??? (Completely disagree on the damage thing outside of leaning heavily on crits soulblaze)

[buoyant maple]

Increase center blast damage, keep edge blast damage same but the scaling is slightly better away from center, which makes it less reliant on soulblaze to kill things

Reduce stagger, it should not be able to stagger ogryn melee enemies at max stagger reduction beyond blast center

Reduce blast area’s radius scaling to be slower at lower charge levels but accelerate as charge level increases (weaker short charge attacks)

[ripe obsidian]

I think that Psyker should be OP at horde management. And Ogryn should be OP at absorbing aggro and punishing armor. And Zealot should be OP at zooming untouched through hordes to kill high value targets.

I want each class to be OP at things.

[tulip kettle]

weird

its like

the game is like that now

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[ripe obsidian]

That is my point

[tulip kettle]

i know dude 😄

[buoyant maple]

I don’t think this is at all unreasonable

[ripe obsidian]

I want classes and weapons to lean into these identities and be great at them

[tulip kettle]

i tell ya what

if you make VB reliably 1 hit crushers at max charge like a pickaxe

then sure, nerf its aoe

[sturdy reef]

is it killing crushers with direct damage in a reasonable time frame

[buoyant maple]

I’m unironically not against it, given you build sufficiently into damage juicing and have real consequences from doing so

[ripe obsidian]

I think a fully charged VB does like 900-1100 damage to a Crusher?

[sturdy reef]

about 950

the charge time is not fast

without the one blessing

[tulip kettle]

and hey guess what

if you take that blessing

staff is garbage

[buoyant maple]

Every “hard nerf” you think I’m giving is actually quite lenient

[sturdy reef]

it is an overall nerf

[buoyant maple]

I’m not against raising the single target damage on it

[zealous wing]

psyker is SUPPOSED to be a powerhouse

[buoyant maple]

So is everyone else

[tulip kettle]

and everyone is

what is your point

[sturdy reef]

the charging is fine as it is

[tulip kettle]

all the classes are good at what they do

[sturdy reef]

slowing it down for the AoE makes it a more single target weapon

[tulip kettle]

but you want psyker to not be good at what it does

[buoyant maple]

I think I specifically said earlier I don’t mind giving psyker better single target damage

[strong gulch]

A lot of survivability and damage node become more or less unusable if you drop nexus on VB.

[zealous wing]

i still dont even understand why path is so angy about VB having AOE

[ripe obsidian]

If I have a game where another class beats me on horde or elite enemies, something went wrong. If I have a game where I have the most boss or special damage, something went wrong.

[strong gulch]

I would like better single target options yes.

[sturdy reef]

making VB worse at AoE and better at single target

meanwhile EK and VS in the corner

[buoyant maple]

This actually reads off like me being angry? Lol

Cuz I’m not

[tulip kettle]

i think maybe not angry but salty

[ripe obsidian]

If EK gets fixed, it'll have like 20-25% better damage on crits.

[tulip kettle]

you dont seem to want the psyker to actually do anything

[buoyant maple]

Nah I appreciate this kind of conversation

[sturdy reef]

Single target psyker can stick on VS/EK and gunker

its comparable or worse to other classes anyway

in that regard

[ripe obsidian]

EK should be fixed quickly. Just gotta move one line of code up 2 lines so it's in a bracket

[buoyant maple]

No, I want psyker to have real consequences from low/high peril, and actually sustainable good damage across all enemies instead of doing 1 thing exceptionally better than every other alternative and sucking at everything else

[tulip kettle]

currently, psyker does not care about peril, unless you take one specific talent or blessing

[sturdy reef]

its a tax on your attention

thats the drawback

[tulip kettle]

beyond "i will explode"

[buoyant maple]

Could be so much more interesting than that

[pale prairie]

Sounds a bit like a build funnel then

[sturdy reef]

audio and vfx are worse

at high peril

[tulip kettle]

oh yeah that too

[sturdy reef]

and you have to look at your peril in the first place

its an attention tax

and its fine

[buoyant maple]

Not quite
Current psyker is more of a build funnel tbh

[sturdy reef]

eh?

someone hasnt played bubble knight

[tulip kettle]

i mean, warp rider kind of is

[sturdy reef]

ya

[tulip kettle]

because without warp rider what would the class even be

[sturdy reef]

every class has that node though

[tulip kettle]

nothing

unplayable

[sturdy reef]

idk about that

[tulip kettle]

okay, maybe the wrong word

[ripe obsidian]

I was thinking about the bonuses for low peril thing, and I don't know how I feel about it. It's an almost identical gameplay loop to high peril, but without the risk of exploding. The bonuses would have to be very different than the current damage boosts for high peril. But what's the point, then, of the glass cannon that doesn't have a cannon? Become a less effective Arbiter or Ogryn in melee?

[buoyant maple]

Can just turn it off in interface settings

[tulip kettle]

"no reason to play it"

[pale prairie]

Not really because you have the staves for AoE and CC and you have a couple of staves for single target and crits. Then you have crazy melee builds and guns.

Sounds like you want to reduce the aoe and cc of the staves which reduces half the builds out there

[sturdy reef]

it still serves as ammo

[tulip kettle]

and the entire reason for psyker existing

[sturdy reef]

and you still need to pay attention to the peril meter

[strong gulch]

From what I've seen, Path talks in terms of systems. So I'm trying to read what he's saying generously. So how x things would work within the context of a proposed new system and not not change x thing with the way current things are.

Ngl tho. VB talk has upset me because I have a tendency to assume the worst.

[sturdy reef]

quelling is worse on H40 in the first place

[tulip kettle]

if i want single target dmg, or special killing, i will play a different class

[buoyant maple]

Lower peril = better toughness sustain & DR, maybe better single target damage and monster damage

Higher peril = giga juiced damage and crits, but weaker defences

[pale prairie]

I think part of it is that he leads the talks with what is “OP and needs nerf” without also talking about what would be adjusted or buffed to compensate or keep the class viable

[sturdy reef]

there will be peril dancing then

[strong gulch]

But given how things currently are, reducing VB's AOE and what it can stagger would be terrible.

[sturdy reef]

just at different thresholds

[tulip kettle]

now, i dont disagree with that

[sturdy reef]

that doesnt really fix what you identified as a problem of peril edging

[tulip kettle]

but thats nothing to do with VB or any of the weapons

[sturdy reef]

its the same thing, just at a different peril %

[strong gulch]

Could be

[tulip kettle]

i would like to see bonuses for being at low peril

but then, you would just end up seeing people playing psyker without peril generation

[buoyant maple]

If getting >50% peril gave you 20% crit chance for warp attacks I think VB build might look a lot more different

[tulip kettle]

and at that point, again, why play the class

[sturdy reef]

if they wanna remove warp rider and other peril based nodes outside of abilities

[ripe obsidian]

That's my point, though. If low peril is defense boosts only, who would pick it? High level players don't want defense at the cost of damage, imo. It would be a noob trap.

[sturdy reef]

and give psyker a peril based passive

sure

otherwise, nah

[ripe obsidian]

And as someone said, it's still the same gameplay loop of peril edging, so the actual gameplay hasn't changed in a meaningful way

[sturdy reef]

keep it simple

esp for newer players

[tulip kettle]

in fact, i would say that peril control is the only interesting thing about the class

[strong gulch]

I will also say that when mortis released, VB's hard stagger area changed and that also means it sets barrels off SO FECKING EASILY AND FAR now that VB RMB becomes unusable when team is remotely near a barrel.

Its great for clips but uhh lol

[pale prairie]

Yeah so like a worse zealot or Ogryn or arbiter

[sturdy reef]

the current high peril bonus but explode/cant use power/staff is fine

[tulip kettle]

exactly

[buoyant maple]

One of the core complaints about right side psyker is that you’re exceptionally squishy and I think a good tree should accommodate for all playstyles

Besides, having specific single target damage bonuses at low peril inherently makes certain melee options much better than staff + peril options for enemies where single target dps matters

[sturdy reef]

psyker squishy no matter what

[tulip kettle]

but that is not psykers class identity

[sturdy reef]

Im as squishy playing left side shriek as I am SG

[tulip kettle]

psyker is just squishy

[sturdy reef]

the only exception is shield, and only the bubble evo

[tulip kettle]

its part of the identity

[nocturne dust]

Psyker's class identity kinda is high damage high death

[buoyant maple]

If ur gameplan involves melee fighting ragers and maulers I think u deserve at least a bit more toughness gain from melee

[sturdy reef]

eh

[tulip kettle]

your gameplan should not be that on psyker

[sturdy reef]

let that be ogryn/arby/zealot

[buoyant maple]

Why

[ripe obsidian]

Low peril being high single target and high peril being high AOE is a lot more interesting to me than defense boosts.

[tulip kettle]

in the same way as your plan on zealot is not to duel gunners at range

its called a class identity

wtf

[buoyant maple]

It’s not like I’m taking away the high peril staff build

Why is that a problem

[sturdy reef]

there isn't much melee psyker support

thats ok

its not the class identity, even if SG is just turbo melee

and unlimited staff memes

@ripe obsidian

😠

[ripe obsidian]

But I think the low vs high peril and single target vs AOE would need to be easily available on the same builds. Introduce decision points. Boss spawns, do I stay at high peril to clear hordes, or do I go low to help with the boss?

[ripe obsidian]

What did I do?

[sturdy reef]

when sg inferno

[tulip kettle]

why SG inferno

[sturdy reef]

its fun

[ripe obsidian]

Whenever. I haven't really played in a while

[sturdy reef]

and its a bit

and I get similar or better numbers to shriek

[buoyant maple]

Yes
I never said they need to be mutually exclusive

The only discouraging factor should be point cost

And it should be a high level decision

You get choices scattered across the entire tree

It’s not like “I take this low peril talent and I have to build into it now”

[strong gulch]

If that were done, I hope fatshark actually puts nodes in good places.

[buoyant maple]

I don’t even mind introducing some crazy mechanical things

Like

[tulip kettle]

but you will need to do that

because of how the trees and talent points work

[buoyant maple]

Dead void was talking about blocking crusher overhead like a few months ago

[tulip kettle]

LOL

[strong gulch]

screams in soulddrinker on right side

[tulip kettle]

thats your example for crazy mechanical thing?

[buoyant maple]

Ykw fuck it
Perfect block at <50% peril can block all melee attacks and push back the attacker

[tulip kettle]

the thing other classes can just do with 1 talent

[buoyant maple]

Why not

[tulip kettle]

so, make all the classes the same

and we are back full circle

[buoyant maple]

No?

[tulip kettle]

cool

[buoyant maple]

This is also just 1 talent

[tulip kettle]

yes that was my point

and what im rpelying to

so give a THIRD class the exact same thing