psyker-class

[cyan portal]

Anyway, results.
My QQ macro will do 10 applications in 3.65s.
44% charge will do 10 applications in 4.65.
100% charge will do 10 applications in 5.13s.

Conclusion: use QQ spam to build max stacks asap on a single or stacked targets. Use mid charge to apply max stacks when sweeping.

[nocturne dust]

Buff purgatus until it staggers bosses and out-dpses Gunluggers

[bitter pelican]

Ye ik. They can also do the opposite with life leech. More thinking from gameplay perspective

[restive stag]

true

i dont even run a melee with purgatus

it isnt necessary

[patent jacinth]

I am going to attack you

[cyan portal]

it isn't required, but it is more optimal

[restive stag]

i mean yeah

[cyan portal]

why?

[restive stag]

but having a meme melee that i never use is funny

[patent jacinth]

Encourging QQ in any way

[cyan portal]

I'd rather not wreck my nerves and joints for a videogame..

[timber cairn]

And vets. This dude wasn’t even a vet main, I was running inferno (albeit on the smelter map which is a bit more open ground) and he crushed me on every front #psyker-class message

[bitter pelican]

Unrelated but I feel whirlipede looks better with the trans flag as a backdrop than scollipede. But goated pokemon nevertheless

[nocturne dust]

Inferno is bad when the team is good enough to deal with targets at range

[patent jacinth]

Scolipede is funnier if used to refer to me specifically

[nocturne dust]

because Inferno doesn't have the range to do anything

[timber cairn]

Right

Felt like a spare part

[cyan portal]

that is where kinetic resonance shines

[clear heath]

a vet outdamaging an inferno psyker on havoc is insane though

what was he running?

[bitter pelican]

Definitely one of Gen 5's hidden gems. Up there with Vanilluxe and Conkeldurr imo

[nocturne dust]

🤮

[jovial scarab]

probs shredders

they fuck hard

[patent jacinth]

I don't know shit about the actual nuts and bolts of pokemon

[clear heath]

oh true

[patent jacinth]

I just know general "theory"

[bitter pelican]

I just think they're funny looking guys that people shit on a lot

[jovial scarab]

if only one guy is using grenades and it's shredders, vet can just toss 5 in a row for one morbillion bleed damage

[bitter pelican]

Iirc guts conkeldurr was very much an OU pick

[cyan portal]

A single point for 1.5x the value of EP, and you aren't even stuck with a bad keystone. What's not to love?

[nocturne dust]

You're stuck with a bad keystone

You're making a bad blitz mediocre

[split lance]

Guys. Is my gpu supposed to be making this noise

[ripe obsidian]

I used this newish build in Havoc 38. Went well.

[bold cape]

its over

[clear heath]

sorry your gpu has turned into a bomb

[patent jacinth]

Is that the fan

[clear heath]

exploding in 3

[cyan portal]

I think you've confused Kinetic Resonance with Empowered Pscionics?

[patent jacinth]

It kinda sounds like a fan grinding

[ripe obsidian]

Sounds like coil whine or a dying fan

[clear heath]

just sounds like coil whine

[cold geode]

really hate playing melee psyker and blowing up to block/push >.<

[nocturne dust]

Well, if you only take KR, what's the point? BB is still pretty bad and you have to use your ability just for it to be slightly less bad

[ripe obsidian]

I get some decent use out of BB in havoc on a purg/bubble build.

It'll one-bop most specials

[nocturne dust]

Time spent BB is time not spent burning enemies

[ripe obsidian]

If there are enemies closer to burn, then I am not BBing

Burning takes priority

[nocturne dust]

Like I use BB with purg yes, and I use BB on havoc

but it's more a novelty than any significant damage

[ripe obsidian]

I use it to snipe things that are far away and no one has killed

Also: did you know that enemies can attack you during the Dark Communion end event cutscene?

'Cause I didn't.

[cyan portal]

Because warp charge BB still hits most breakpoints, and with ult spam the 10s buff is up most of the time, and 1.25s cast is enough to get some kills faster than the vet can, each of which procs perilous combustion.

[strong gulch]

yes

[ripe obsidian]

And my team came out of the cutscene with half HP and our vet down from a burster.

[nocturne dust]

most of the time is a stretch

[shrewd gust]

what's blaze force gs blessing/perks

[nocturne dust]

you won't be able to spam your ult unless you're getting tons of kills which BB won't do

[cyan portal]

It really isn't, distant targets are much easier to mouse over than click on.

[nocturne dust]

and it's still incredibly slow DPS

so

I don't know what you're talking about

You won't get the kills to feed ability spam

[cyan portal]

beating good vets at dmg on purga build?

[nocturne dust]

Using the purg, yes

Using BB? Not a chance. That ain't no good vet.

[cyan portal]

BB is just part of the kit, you use it when nothing important is in purga range.

[nocturne dust]

Exactly, it's a stop-gap and in no way valuable

You could literally ignore it and still come out with very similar DPS rates, it's only useful in extreme downtimes

[cyan portal]

What would convince you you're wrong?

[ripe obsidian]

I do not agree with you on this.

It's always useful to have options for different ranges.

[nocturne dust]

Nothing, really? Like, the damage and attack rate just isn't there.

You would have to prove it has higher damage and speed than it currently has. Which is silly and not possible.

[nocturne dust]

Sure

But BB is only chosen because of its positioning in the talent tree, not because it's useful

Swap BB and assail, and suddenly assail is the only thing paired with Purgatus.

(This is discounting Kinetic Flayer, which isn't really BB).

[cyan portal]

Imagine there is a big pack of gunners 70m away. You ult, and kill 3 with bb, in 4s, and everything else dies to 12 stacks of SB from perilous combustion. Can a vet wipe a whole gunner pack at 70m in 4sec?

[nocturne dust]

yes, actually

A couple lines of plasma and suddenly no gunners

Also, the value isn't there

A gunner pack at 70m is not a threat

The only threat at that range is snipers

[cyan portal]

If you're in a dps race with a good vet nothing is a threat, its a race..

[nocturne dust]

Sure, and you'll lose to the vet every time

Like, it's not even BB doing the work in your example

You could literally replace it with any gun

Well almost any gun

[vivid mica]

is 10 second dd broken? I just did a run with the perk and my stacks were dropping so quickly

[clear heath]

If you actually wanna dps race then ideally you sprint to every enemy to attack them as soon as possible
long distance enemies shouldn't even be a thing

[ripe obsidian]

The buff likely wasn't displaying

[cyan portal]

It's been a fair while since I lost to a vet

[patent jacinth]

Those are the 4 second movespeed stacks

Buff display is buggy AF

[ripe obsidian]

You were probably seeing the speed buff, not the stacks

[nocturne dust]

[patent jacinth]

You can fix it with a priority buff bar mod

[nocturne dust]

You don't pub enough then

[vivid mica]

ah, gotcha gotcha

[patent jacinth]

Lets you put stuff like thrust and warp unbound right under your crosshair

super nice

[cyan portal]

I mostly pub

[nocturne dust]

Join a match with 3 good boltor vets and watch them literally take all the damage away from your purgatus/BB build

[bitter pelican]

Some real goats in pubs. Some real goat turds too

[cyan portal]

3 vets racing each other will wreck them harder than it will wreck me, easy win

[nocturne dust]

I just don't believe you at this point. That makes no sense.

BB takes time to charge. A boltor shot to the face does not.

[hollow pine]

Unc should i up the switch on the heretics?

[clear heath]

they'd probably run out of ammo if 3 vets were using bolter for everything

[cyan portal]

a bolter takes time to aim, a bb does not

[nocturne dust]

I've seen it work on auric

[nocturne dust]

Aiming takes way less time than BB

like, so much less it's insane how long BB takes

[clear heath]

one vet hogging ammo will absolutely destroy you in dps if they're good

[nocturne dust]

Even I don't take that long to aim the worst weapons

[cyan portal]

not with kinetic resonance.. which is my entire point

[modest patrol]

Bolter is fast and deletes things

[nocturne dust]

and my point is also with KR

it's even worse without it

[clear heath]

how slow do you aim if you can't killsteal a brain rupture, even with kinetic resonance?

[cyan portal]

when there are 10+ gunners, you get the ones they aren't, they always shoot the easy ones first, and once you get a couple sb kills the rest

[clear heath]

or they shoot your target

[nocturne dust]

All those gunners will be dead long before soulblaze gets to do anything

because BB itself is slow as well

[clear heath]

and yeah the soulblaze barely gets to tick

[nocturne dust]

You might get one or two gunners if you're lucky and they don't target what you're targeting

[bitter pelican]

Come on guys aren't there enough gunners to go around? Can't we just all get along?

[clear heath]

exec stance bolter one shots gunners

you just click once for every gunner

[patent jacinth]

exec stance bolter one shots gunners

[nocturne dust]

It doesn't even take a boltor, other guns can also starve you of specials/elites you need for BB to do much

[bitter pelican]

I mean plasma gun can clear an entire hallway

If you're using voidstrike rest in pepperonis

[patent jacinth]

Voidstrike doesn't deserve its treatment

Or maybe its cause and effect

Most fun worst perfomance

[bitter pelican]

Honestly least favourite staff of mine. Trauma has always been my fav

[patent jacinth]

Voidstrike is literally balling though

Oh I need that now

[bitter pelican]

I dunno it just feels like a snowcone cannon

[ripe obsidian]

I agree.

[patent jacinth]

Generic savant psyker massively outplaying a zealot in basketball but its a voidstrike ball

[nocturne dust]

Like, there's a very good reason I say the only thing worth investing on BB is Kinetic Flayer: because KF is completely divorced from actually using BB. BB is just not in a good state, and KR looks very valuable but it makes a bad thing less bad. That's not worth the investment, it's much more valuable to just further improve Purgatus.

KR would need an insane uptime for it to be worth using, and even then it'd probably still need a boost to its speed (or a proper boost to base BB so it doesn't suck so much).

[cyan portal]

You're wrong, I think you're just bad at using it effectively

[nocturne dust]

Well, I think you're wrong.

BB is my favorite blitz. I know precisely how bad it sucks.

[modest patrol]

Not that anyone asked for an extra opinion, but... assail sure is nice.

[empty agate]

idk getting 12 BB's off in 5 seconds is pretty fun to me

i feel you

[cyan portal]

I guess 300? levels of psyker isn't enough to master BB? It's really not bad.

[nocturne dust]

This is the problem with BB, though. People think because you can invest into it and get it to okay levels, it's therefore not bad.

Smite doesn't need investment to work. Assail doesn't need investment to work.

No grenade needs investment to work.

Do they get better with investment? Yes. Do they need that investment? No.

[clear heath]

well vet needs grenade regen

[cyan portal]

1 point for KR is all it needs, most vets spend more than a point boosting their grenades

[nocturne dust]

All vet grenades still do their job though, you'll just be grenade-starved.

[empty agate]

What exactly quantifies as an okay level for something that specializes in picking off a high value target from complete safety at range

[nocturne dust]

No, because even with KR it's still pretty bad.

It's still a lot worse than base assail if you're just hunting specials/elites.

[empty agate]

each of psykers grenades are tools, they do those things well

[clear heath]

i think shredders would actually suffer a lot without any grenade talents
Hard to justify throwing 2 to optimize the bleed if you can't get more so easily

[nocturne dust]

shredders also stun tho

[clear heath]

but grenade regen is like literally on the way to voc so this never matters

[cyan portal]

it has much better range than assail, and at mid range faster time to kill (with KF) because it doesn't need to fly through the air

[nocturne dust]

You are right only on the first part.

but that range almost never matters.

and even when it does, you have plenty of ways to make it not matter

[clear heath]

travel time is longer than BB cast time if it's like a 30m sniper

this kinda never matters

but it does take time

[bitter pelican]

The range might be better but it doesn't go fwip fwip fwip fwip

Or ting ting ting ting. Which is the main reason you use assail

[clear heath]

kinda relevant for bombers too i guess

[nocturne dust]

If you spend your ability just to have KR.

but you can also just slide

[cyan portal]

bb still stagger sniper out of aiming quickly too, sometimes handy

[patent jacinth]

BB doesn’t let me make shitty guardians of the galaxy references

[nocturne dust]

Rarely. Still all insignificant things.

[main wyvern]

guys is this the best build ever

[empty agate]

bb better for bosses than assail is

[clear heath]

tbf if it's a shriek spam build, the uptime isn't that bad on kr

[nocturne dust]

Sure, but neither is great on bosses.

[patent jacinth]

That’s a bar sitting on the floor

[bitter pelican]

I'd argue Ego blowing up is a brain burst reference.

[nocturne dust]

BB's buffs don't last long enough to make it good.

because it's reliant on buffs.

Short buffs, at that.

[clear heath]

it's up like probably 50% of the time

[cyan portal]

shriek spam is about 12 sec between ults, KF lasts 10s, its almost always up

[mossy oyster]

This is what psyker mains don’t tell you

the cold hard truth

(Male seer voice lines are goated with assail)

[bitter pelican]

Fly my pretties fly fly

[nocturne dust]

Shriek is a 30 second cooldown You're assuming quite a few psykinetic procs there, buddy

[mossy oyster]

** I always win hide and seek **

[bitter pelican]

I just switched to girl mode and I think I like her better

[modest patrol]

Seek their eyes

[patent jacinth]

Fem seer is so good

[bitter pelican]

That and you can rock that absolutely fucked haircut with the three braids that come outta nowhere

[clear heath]

i mean with 4 warp charges, cdr curios and cdr aura, it's already down to like 17 seconds

[mossy oyster]

Grandma psyker is good (female seer)

[patent jacinth]

Male seer doesn’t fourth wall break with bodyguard to talk about the music

[timber cairn]

Think the only argument for brain burst right now is kinetic flayer as you say

[patent jacinth]

I have heard that line once in 500 hours

[timber cairn]

Which to be fair is actually pretty good when you get surrounded by clusters of heavy and you need to stagger at least

[patent jacinth]

And it’s so good

[mossy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/yondu-arrow-marvel-guardiansofthegalaxy2-ravagers-gif-14617100

[cyan portal]

12% from curios, 10% from aura, 45% from warp charges. That leaves 9.9s of CD, before any psyc aura procs.

[patent jacinth]

Also, real as fuck out of context

[modest patrol]

The seer personalities are joys to be in missions with

[cyan portal]

12s was a generous error margin.

[clear heath]

i don't feel like KR was enough value for a point when i tried it, but uptime is not why i dropped it. This was not really an issue

[nocturne dust]

They don't stack additively

This also assumes you have Warp Battery, which is often not the case nowadays

and also assumes you can get 6 stacks in 12 seconds

which also often not the case

[bitter pelican]

The only class I can't pick a favourite on is vet. Loose Cannon and PTSD Haver are both so good.

[nocturne dust]

The math ain't mathing

[patent jacinth]

Fem loose cannon is just silly

[clear heath]

assume 4 warp charges for 30% cdr, cdr curios, and the aura
30 * (1-0.3) * (1-0.12) * (1-0.1) = 16.632

[patent jacinth]

I don’t want Cadia every 2 lines

[clear heath]

10 out of roughly 17 seconds is not bad uptime

[patent jacinth]

And she is also a ptsd haver to be fair

[bitter pelican]

Yeah I actually made 2 vets just so I could experience fem loose cannon and male cadia vet

[clear heath]

and usually it's slightly less because of psyk aura

[bitter pelican]

MY ROCK BLEW UP WAAAAAH

[modest patrol]

I just know I wouldn’t want any of the vets running at me with their angry lines, I’d be hitting the bricks

[nocturne dust]

it is for how essential KR is

[cyan portal]

fine, I measured its 12s before any psyk aura procs.

[clear heath]

anyways uptime was not the issue back when i used it.
The real issue is i just sprint 40 meters ahead of my team and fight the enemies point blank anyways

[bitter pelican]

Although someone on YouTube made an excellent point that if on my first off world mission Earth blew up I too would make it my entire personality.

[modest patrol]

I think any remotely reasonable person would

[clear heath]

the amount of time i spent not being close to an enemy is genuinely pretty low, so i didn't get much value out of a long ranged attack like bb

it was nice for bombers though

[cyan portal]

good until you're in a dps race with a greedy vet

[bitter pelican]

It's proper for snipers too

Especially vs assail and smite

[nocturne dust]

Eh, most of the time you can just deal with snipers without BB. It just stands out when you need to use BB to deal with them.

[clear heath]

enemies are not usually that far apart aside from specifically bombers and snipers
There will usually be something you can sprint to faster than you can bb

[nocturne dust]

I don't have to use BB for bombers tho

[cyan portal]

the real use of fast bb in purga build is because DoT kills don't proc PC, you need direct dmg to get the killing blow. If they're close enough you stab them, if they're further away you pop their head.

[bitter pelican]

Trappers can be good too. Especially if you catch them before they wreak havoc on your team

[clear heath]

i mean sometimes bombers are in the middle of fucking nowhere

[nocturne dust]

Stop sweeping

[cyan portal]

No, you stop doing less damage than you could be doing

[clear heath]

what was the actual time the kr BB took again?

[nocturne dust]

Sweeping does less damage though, it's for stacking not damage

also TIL if you switch talents in the psyk and add warp battery, you can get two different warp siphon stacks going

[cyan portal]

1.25s cast, 0.34s recovery, down from 2.2s cast, 0.6s recovery.

[bitter pelican]

Brainburst is meta because it uses the number 34.

[cyan portal]

if you have enough stacks there isn't time for direct damage

[bitter pelican]

Which is one of the funny numbers as we all know.

[nocturne dust]

[cyan portal]

1.25s to proc PC, applying 4 stacks in aoe is faster than you can apply 4 stacks with the staff.

[nocturne dust]

Again, you're discounting direct damage, you're also assuming KR which, again, doesn't have nearly as good of an uptime as you think. Additionally, you don't get Blaze Away or perks.

[clear heath]

What's our movespeed with dueling sword? like 6 m/s? So we could cover like 7.5m in that time i guess

more if mettle is still up from the previous fight

[cyan portal]

My position in this entire discussion is that KF, costing 1 point, makes BB pretty good.

[nocturne dust]

My position is that it makes it okay at best, and generally isn't worth the point.

[bitter pelican]

Does KF work with the lightning staves and smite still?

Er I mean obviously not smite lol

[nocturne dust]

KF works with all staves

[bitter pelican]

Berry cool

[cyan portal]

Yes, and my response is that just means you haven't worked out how to use it effectively.

[nocturne dust]

And my response is you just haven't worked out how to play the game if we want bad faith arguments.

[bitter pelican]

And my response is rips monster ass

[cyan portal]

Is your position really that you've mastered it and use it as well as it can possibly be used, and so anyone with more experience must be wrong if they think it can be used very effectively?

[clear heath]

i think you should just go up to the enemy and stab them

[nocturne dust]

No, my belief is you are downplaying alternatives and viewing BB in a biased light, as humans are want to do.

[bitter pelican]

I think he's trying to say: whilst you can use it effectively and have found a use case for it. The perk point investment is better spent elsewhere.

[cyan portal]

yes, when that is the faster option

[bitter pelican]

Iunno

Like I get what he's saying smite and assail need minimum to no setup at all. Maybe some rending for your assail if thst still works

[nocturne dust]

You should do it anyway more often than not because it will get you closer to the rest of the enemies for the thing that does real damage, your staff

[clear heath]

If we're talking just pure scoreboard greed, running to the hordes faster is just gonna get you the most damage. Huge advantage to getting there first

[cyan portal]

I'm curious which 1 point you think adds more offensive power that isn't already in the build?

[clear heath]

and bb is not as fast as sprinting with a fast melee

[nocturne dust]

I was not speaking of a specific build?

[cyan portal]

or you can slide towards them while casting bb, have killed one, dodged any bullets, and still have closed the distance?

[bitter pelican]

I think it's less the 1 point and more the pathing through brain burst?

[nocturne dust]

Although KR is generally not the pick for purgatus, yeah.

[cyan portal]

*isn't already in any good build

[clear heath]

but you're still moving slower than a fast melee

a dueling sword/knife simply has higher speed

[nocturne dust]

well for one, warp battery, kinetic flayer, wildfire... lots of builds miss out on at least one of these

getting them all is pretty hard

[bitter pelican]

Don't you move a little slower while triggering BB?

[nocturne dust]

You do but you can dodge/slide around it

[cyan portal]

kf kills too many pox bursters on teammates, that's a different can of worms.

[nocturne dust]

Just don't hit the PB

KF doesn't trigger on pushes

[bitter pelican]

Yeah just wanted to make sure before activating my domain expansion.

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-satoru-domain-expansion-jujutsu-kaisen-anime-gif-5048435362424443228

[cyan portal]

purga primary can save plenty of teammates from silent pox bursters though, from 15m, its too good to give up for rng bbs

[nocturne dust]

If you're literally blasting a spout of fire into a PB and your teammate decides to run at it, that's kinda on them

[nocturne dust]

KF is not an insignificant amount of damage

[cyan portal]

primary spam will also push a burster back several times, which you can use to move it out of a dangerous position

[nocturne dust]

In fact, it is better than Warp Battery

[clear heath]

hey maybe if you could use your inferno against bursters, you wouldn't have died in our last run

[nocturne dust]

Wouldn't have done crap

I got no hitregged

😭

Also they were around a corner so it would've been more dangerous than just pushing

[cyan portal]

purga primary is easily the strongest tool to counter pox bursters

[nocturne dust]

eeeehhhhhh

Pushing is the strongest tool to counter poxbursters

[wide galleon]

yall don’t shove?

[clear heath]

purg primary does solve the multiple burster waves though

[cyan portal]

push needs stam, and requires teammate not to shoot it in your face

[nocturne dust]

bruh

psyker

[clear heath]

where shoving is fucked because there's another burster slightly behind the first one

[nocturne dust]

wtf you mean "needs stam"?

You got stam

Literally always stam

[nocturne dust]

Just spam pushes

Psyker is good at that

[clear heath]

what if there's a 3rd burster slightly behind them?

waves of burster condition

[cyan portal]

i suppose not everyone sprints everywhere?

[nocturne dust]

Then run away and hit them with the ole kaboom

[nocturne dust]

bruh

Psyker has such a short stam regen delay

They can always push

The fact you don't know this is

[clear heath]

there exists a perfect distance where you cannot reach the burster but it can reach you when the burster you pushed explodes, and inferno solves that

okay but the stamina thing literally never happens on psyker

[nocturne dust]

Unless the lmb doesn't hit which does happen

[cyan portal]

*almost always

[nocturne dust]

[clear heath]

i get the pain on the other classes where something hits you same time and block breaks while you try to burster push, but psyker has kd

[nocturne dust]

If you're sprinting into a poxburster, you have bigger problems.

[clear heath]

ok but this is a skill issue
stop sprinting a moment before and you can push the burster

[cyan portal]

if you're sprinting into a poxburster using primary spam, there are no problems

[nocturne dust]

You'll still get exploded

[clear heath]

you just need like 0.1 stamina to push

[nocturne dust]

Also lmb spam still works with KF, just don't do it when they're too close

Also also, sprint slide mfer so you don't have 0 stamina

[cyan portal]

when they're close to unaware teammates is the best time to use primary to save them

[mellow heath]

What's the electrokinetic dump stat btw? In the big steam guide it says crit or quell speed, online I'm seeing mixed info, and I'm staring down a 60 roll warp resist one in my shop rn.

[clear heath]

warp res

wait pygex guide says crit???

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️ It's an extremely niche usecase for dumping a lot of damage

If my teammates are unaware of a burster, it's probably silent which means I am likely unaware as well

[clear heath]

maybe if you had pushed the burster when you were 14 meters away with inferno last game....

[nocturne dust]

If it's not silent... they deserved it

🗿

[nocturne dust]

Around a corner

I can't shoot through walls 😭

[clear heath]

insane

[nocturne dust]

Pygex's guide is wrong in a lot of places or expects highly specific setups with strange techs

[cyan portal]

I'm willing to sacrific a little dps to be better at keeping my team alive, which is kinda the point of bringing a truckload of dps in the first place.

[nocturne dust]

For example, he dumps quell speed on purg because he expects you to not quell by making use of a highly specific no-quell setup

[strong gulch]

The guide has always said to dump crit on surge/ EK.

[nocturne dust]

And it's always been wrong

😔

[clear heath]

i'm surprised he stayed on that hill for this long

[nocturne dust]

It's not a little though, it's quite a significant amount over the course of a match because KF procs PC

[clear heath]

my hot take is i think kf is easier to give up on inferno than on trauma

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️ You do you, but I'd rather KD over KR if you wanna talk about defense.

[nocturne dust]

Sure.

[clear heath]

like sure PC stacks are nice, but you build those stacks in barely any time

[nocturne dust]

I don't disagree.

It's still very valuable though.

[clear heath]

the stacks mean the world to blaze trauma
but for inferno, really how often do you feel like you're really waiting a long time for stacks

[cyan portal]

KF helps you kill things you're killing anyway, KR lets killing things far more effectively at mid and long range that you wouldn't kill otherwise.

[clear heath]

idk if you watch the stacks with the mod but it's so fast like who even cares?

[nocturne dust]

But time spent using KR is time not spent using the staff that is way more important to the build

and generally I don't have enough targets to use KR on that normal BB wouldn't also suffice for before I have to switch to staff.

[edgy rover]

what its the dump stat on infero staff, warp resistance or quell speed?

[clear heath]

warp res

[nocturne dust]

warp res

[cyan portal]

Quickly killing a specialist or elite gunner at mid range is more valuable than using more staff, especially when doing so adds more stacks on fresher targets.

[nocturne dust]

If it's more valuable, you've probably positioned wrong

[cyan portal]

killing a disabler or area denial-er before they use their ability is always valuable.

[near wyvern]

All you need is ER and battle meditation to make that happen. I use it in havoc 40 as well without creeping flames.

[nocturne dust]

Yes but it means having shriek trouble for outside of Havoc.

[near wyvern]

Why would you not have creeping flames on regular runs with purge?

[clear heath]

i think he means having trouble building peril for shriek

[cyan portal]

The reason to dump warp res is that 80 quell speed lets you fit 1 (2 with ER) big channels with 1 quell tick from 100. With quell speed dump you can't quite fit it in. On h40 peril quelled per tick is unchanged, making 1 tick quells optimal, and quell speed stat is the only way to increase quell per tick (solidity doesn't).

[near wyvern]

Not really, there ain't that much that dies

[near wyvern]

Counterpoint. The reason you dump quell speed is you can do low charges to keep permanently CC up while blazing spirit covers for you resulting in minimal DPS loss and never having to quell.

[nocturne dust]

CC isn't that valuable, BM is a dps loss

because you don't take a more valuable node for DPS if you take Battle Meditation

[cyan portal]

You literally never quell with purga?

[fiery stratus]

anybody wanna do some auric? no havoc just a couple before zzz

[nocturne dust]

I can

[fiery stratus]

i hate that gif

[near wyvern]

There ain't much to get more DPS here

[clear heath]

he's gonna say flayer

watch

[fiery stratus]

@nocturne dust strike team 15 when you're ready

[nocturne dust]

You.... you don't have psykinetics?

[clear heath]

wait

no PA?

[near wyvern]

That's a non havoc build

[nocturne dust]

Essence Harvest as well?

[clear heath]

it's still more shrieks for yourself

[near wyvern]

You can drop EH for it if you want

And if you want EE you can drop soulstealer

[nocturne dust]

Also the elite aura?

[near wyvern]

But that has nothing to do with DPS

[nocturne dust]

[clear heath]

holy shit it's an elite aura build too

rare species

[near wyvern]

Don't come in here complaining about DPS and then whining about elite aura

Choose what you want

[cyan portal]

Battle meditation is bad though, it puts your peril in the hands of rng, which makes it impossible to consistently sustain 80-100 peril for max buffs. Even worse, the more you kill the harder it nukes your peril.

[bold cape]

lmao

[nocturne dust]

[ripe obsidian]

BM is good in havoc when you have like an 85% quell penalty

[nocturne dust]

Bruh

[lethal lagoon]

Elite aura makes more sense on havoc cause other people will run CDR, and you are usually in coherency.

[nocturne dust]

this is for non-havoc

[ripe obsidian]

Oh, ignore me then

[near wyvern]

Blazing spirit is better than peril maxing, especially with creeping flames stacking

[echo root]

Terrible skilltree

[nocturne dust]

It is indeed terrible

[cyan portal]

quell penality only effects tick rate, not tick amount, if you quell 1 tick at a time it has no effect, which you want to be doing anyway if you're sustaining 80-100.

[echo root]

Wrong aura, no kf, no wildfire

[nocturne dust]

no psykinetics

[lethal lagoon]

No there is wildfire, it's even worse, no psyk.

[nocturne dust]

they have wildfire

[echo root]

Yes

Oh I mixed up the positions

That's even worse

[cyan portal]

blaze and peril maxing is better than blaze and no peril maxing

[nocturne dust]

Pygex, no offense but this lowers my confidence in your guide by like... a lot.

[near wyvern]

See for yourself FFS

https://youtu.be/2eglQS0WZbM

[nocturne dust]

I've seen, I'm aware. I think you're valuing not quelling a bit too much.

But I'm just some guy on a Discord 🤷‍♂️

[echo root]

PA is one of the best talents in the whole game. It's holding assail out of most builds alone by simply existing.

[near wyvern]

Allows me to go full aggro since I always have peril to CC

[dull gyro]

It takes me like 5-6 heavy headshots to kill a crusher with a knife, is this normal? 💀 Purgatus build

[cyan portal]

you need 84 peril to creeping flame max, which isn't going to reliably happen on cd with battle med.

[nocturne dust]

try full uncanny stacks prior to fighting the crusher

[near wyvern]

I agree but with ER you won't build peril fast enough for PA to matter. You could drop ER for the rending but it's bugged and doesn't work properly so...

[cyan portal]

my 14 warp resist deimos says otherwise

[dull gyro]

5 lights for 5/5 uncanny still takes 4 hits

[echo root]

Why even run er on purg

[near wyvern]

Just watch the video will you

[echo root]

Er just fucks you over on purgatus

[cyan portal]

I've seen it, I use it. Do you want me to make a video showing why you are wrong?

[dull gyro]

barely over 1000 dps on average, just need to know if its normal or if somethings wonky tbh

if normal i can work wit hthat

[dusk void]

Anyone here use this talent node?

[dull gyro]

yeah but it in fact does not work

[ripe obsidian]

It does not work. It is borked.

[dull gyro]

its jsut better than the other one

[near wyvern]

If you dot that and you are correct I will edit guide and attribute you

[dusk void]

So take the toughness hit instead. damn

[dull gyro]

no lol

just take the talent that doesnt work

the toughness talent is trash

better 0 effects than cuck ur toughness

and peril gen

[echo root]

Play with this for 2 rounds and experience it yourself.

[ripe obsidian]

What.

[echo root]

You can remove essence harvest

You can take puppet master over quell speed

[dull gyro]

empyric resolve

[ripe obsidian]

I know. I was disagreeing with you.

Empyric Resolve is great

[dusk void]

But that toughness hit though

[ripe obsidian]

So?

You generate toughness in like 5 different ways

[dull gyro]

and each gets -30%

[ripe obsidian]

Okay?

What's your point?

[dull gyro]

• you generate less peril and peril is important

i.e. to stay above 80% for purgatus

[dusk void]

Spam your ultimate faster

[ripe obsidian]

Generating less peril means you can more easily stay at 80% instead of going too high too quickly

[bold cape]

you see, i am shit at the game, and so i require to crutch on being able to take hits

[dense valley]

just got this heater staff lol

[bold cape]

(only speaking for myself with this btw)

[ripe obsidian]

It's fine to say that you prefer having the toughness. My issue is with people who throw out blanket "X is bad" comments without knowing what they're talking about

[dusk void]

I'm also shit at this game

[ripe obsidian]

If you don't want to use Empyric Resolve, that's fine. Play how you have fun

And tbh, builds are secondary to playstyle and comfort and skill.

[dense valley]

omg it even hit 0%

[cyan portal]

It's uploading and processing, I don't want attribution, I just want you to share better build suggestions. Your info is 10/10, but some (not many) of the conclusions you've drawn from that info are questionable.

[edgy rover]

something like this would be good for force gs / inferno staff?

[cyan portal]

That's why you feed vets and zealots constant CDR in exchange for constant yellow toughness to bypass the toughness penalty.

[nocturne dust]

Very cool and very balanced

[ripe obsidian]

As they said in the Zealot chat earlier, a Zealot's job is to read the book and keep the psyker alive.

Die for me, fanatic.

[stone quest]

Overtoughness is a horrendously broken mechanic that needs to get chucked from the game entirely. (Havoc is not withstanding but Havoc is its own set of problems)

[clear heath]

btw @near wyvern i'm surprised you don't have this confirmed already. It's pretty clear that the psyker with the talent has to be the one killing

[cyan portal]

Fair, I do main the very coolest and most very balanced of weapons in the game.

[ripe obsidian]

How many of you have been bullied by Scab Captains who don't show their animations properly?

Just suddenly die as the guy looks at you menacingly

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-menacingly-spongebob-standing-there-gif-19452999

[edgy rover]

what talismans and stats you take for kinetic deflection, do i put block reduction on my force gs?

[ripe obsidian]

Block Cost Reduction belongs in Vermintide

[clear heath]

nah you don't need block cost reduction, especially not with KD. It gives you insane block already

[ripe obsidian]

I think Carapace/Unyielding for perks

And Wrath+Momentum/Shred for blessings

[bold cape]

i like riposte

[ripe obsidian]

Kinetic Deflection, to me, feels like the alternative to taking a stamina curio

[ripe obsidian]

Riposte is also good

[clear heath]

with KD, a full peril gauge is equivalent to 4x your total stamina for blocking
plus you can still block with your stamina after it's full

it's so excessive it's insane

[zinc phoenix]

Idk I think for a blocking related trait it damn well better be good

I’m not taking a trait that makes me 50% or even 100% better at blocking, it’s just not enough. 400% better is a little high but not so much as to break the game

[bold cape]

even when i have kd i have to constantly remind myself to use it
i just instinctively never block

[plucky flax]

He got me

[bold cape]

"zealot with no duelist shouldnt exist"

think the guy got it the wrong way around

[dense valley]

lol what is this guy on

[clear heath]

you should be taking duelist though

[edgy rover]

anticipation is worth it? does boost empathic evasion?

[clear heath]

no and no

[edgy rover]

dam

and warp splitting over wildfire or 5% speed node if im using warp gs?

[nocturne dust]

Anticipation is alright in some scenarios

[clear heath]

don't spend an entire point on 5% speed only

as for the other two, depends on the rest of the build

[plucky flax]

Not on every build and everything. On finesse weapons 100% but I don't take it when I play rashad

[dense valley]

i mean that perk is like entirity of zealot dmg

[clear heath]

the weakspot damage is enough to make it worth it on rashad

[ripe obsidian]

Yeah, pretty sure Rashad benefits a lot from finesse

[edgy rover]

its a crit purge staff / gs, then wildfire or warp splitting?

[dense valley]

and like its literally next to the immortal node u should def grab it

[clear heath]

okay think about this
the 30% weakspot damage on vet tree is a must grab on literally every build
zealot's duelist is 50% weakspot and 50% crit damage

even for weakspot alone on non-crit weapons, it's a top tier node

[plucky flax]

Still conditional based on dodge and rashad with headtaker 1 shot all chaffs already. Maybe it helps against crushers but heavy attack already stagger them so I'm not even dodging much

[clear heath]

triggering things on dodge is very common on zealot though

it's why second wind is insanely good

just dodge one of the hundreds of bullets flying around

[plucky flax]

Only if you dodge I face tank when playing martyrdom

[restive stag]

conditional based on dodge will be active like 85% of the time

[plucky flax]

No second wind no duelist

[clear heath]

press dodge and you'll probably just dodge something by accident

[plucky flax]

Watch me get top damage

[split lance]

How use knife. Me bad with knife

[plucky flax]

You press left click pog

[near wyvern]

I have played with KF a lot of times. I don't like it because it is risky to push poxburaters with LMB

[split lance]

Why they no die fast?

[plucky flax]

[clear heath]

simply crit more

[plucky flax]

You need to stab harder

[split lance]

Playing safe

[near wyvern]

It needs to be done in a controlled setting, I have no friends and I haven't seen video proof of it properly being test

[split lance]

[nocturne dust]

KF doesn't proc on pushes

[split lance]

IM TRYING

[nocturne dust]

anymore

[plucky flax]

Oh it's the guy doing the killing

[nocturne dust]

It does proc on push attacks from force sword tho

[clear heath]

you can probably just look at a few seconds of some random footage. It's pretty obvious when psykinetic's aura procs because the ability icon does a sudden jump

hell just open up a random agentchaos vid

[near wyvern]

On purge LMB

[plucky flax]

The guy with the aura has to do the kill

But then you stack multiple psykers all taking it

And it's op

[nocturne dust]

Ah, 🤷‍♂️

[near wyvern]

I used KF a shit ton when it was used to upkeep warp charges, cause then it was worth it

[split lance]

When I’m using knife I feel like everything kills elites faster than me

[nocturne dust]

I do think they should just make KF never proc on poxbursters, that would be nice

[near wyvern]

Since the removal of that and no changes to the buff, it's not worth the slot. The CD is either too long or it needs to be a guaranteed on hit proc when off CD.

[dull gyro]

KF?

[near wyvern]

Kinetic Flayer

[dull gyro]

ty

[plucky flax]

It's so peak

Kf gud

[near wyvern]

AgentChaos, our troll at home

[plucky flax]

Huh I literally take it when I can

[near wyvern]

You using mk6 with push attack spam?

[plucky flax]

Especially on surge staff it's crazy strong

[split lance]

I’m a KF lover

KF

Best

Girl

[near wyvern]

TBH they should make KF only proc on elites and specials and a guaranteed proc, then it could be worth it

Would be funny to fire a single bullet to open a bulwark

[clear heath]

unfortunately i don't have a lot of clear footage. i mostly keep clutch footage.
Best i can do from my personal footage is the bulwark kill from smither here not making my cd jump, but you probably want something clearer
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1315875922703941663/fgs_havoc_shotgunners.mp4?ex=675ba373&is=675a51f3&hm=eb3bc27a5db9771f9c2119f57300612e843347ad6e51c4f58e4cb0c3889d1992&

[near wyvern]

Yeah this is not clear enough

[restive stag]

i nono like it

[plucky flax]

It says chance to proc but the chance is higher than it is.

[clear heath]

that being said, you can see that the ability bar jumps pretty abruptly, so you can easily tell if you just see someone get a bunch of kills and you don't see the cd jump

[plucky flax]

If you have it ready and use trauma you'll always get a proc on the first blast.

[clear heath]

we can probably just look for one of agent's vids and just look at the kill feed and the cd

[near wyvern]

Still it should be guaranteed like bounty hunter crit in VT2

[near wyvern]

That's cause you hit so many targets

[restive stag]

i kinda wish it was guarenteed and had a way to reduce the cooldown

[plucky flax]

Now that it only proc on elites specials and monsters

It's so good

[near wyvern]

They changed that?

[plucky flax]

No more kf wasted on chaffs

Yeah bro wtf

Ages ago

Nice guide writing

[near wyvern]

Well that slipped through me in patch notes if that is the case, still we need it to be guaranteed

[restive stag]

kf is by no means bad methinks it just doesnt fit super well on most builds

[clear heath]

shit, agent plays with too many other psykers

[dawn ruin]

Feel like this class is gonna be my hyperfixation for a while

[near wyvern]

And it would be really cool if they added an other node behind it to reduce CD by 50%

Would make some gun builds really good

[plucky flax]

3 psykers all with psykenetic aura is broken level of creeping flames spam in havoc

[nocturne dust]

It's actually a DPS bump over other alternatives on Inferno/Trauma

[near wyvern]

For sure. Add in a fourth one for bubble fort

[restive stag]

eeehhh

[nocturne dust]

yeh, it cool

[restive stag]

my issue is i'd just rather have other nodes that i can use for things i find more valueable

[plucky flax]

Need 1 zealot for cleanse and damage on choir

[near wyvern]

If one creeping flames user is running EP smite corruption shouldn't be too much of an issue

But ideal seems to be 2 zealot 2 psyker or 1 vet 1 zealot 2 psyker

[nocturne dust]

nobody wants to run smite

[near wyvern]

Poor ogryns

[near wyvern]

I did that for my True Survivor

[nocturne dust]

[near wyvern]

But you need one bubble psyker in the team

And EP smite requires creeping flames, so only an option if at least 2 psykers in the team

[split lance]

Bad charolotte. Bad

[restive stag]

what the heck

[split lance]

Smite bad

Smite for losers

That’s why atlas likes smite

(I’m a smite hater through and through)

[restive stag]

im a smite hater but also a brain burst hater

and also in part an assail hater but not as much and not for the same reasons

[echo root]

You have to take one of them to get PA tho. So pick the one you hate less

[restive stag]

yeah

i usually just pick whatever i dont have on a build

so for my purg i take brainburst

[lethal lagoon]

Oh yeah, well you stink.

Pee yoo

[near wyvern]

So bad...

https://youtu.be/yrOmLUfNMw4

[echo root]

I take BB in all my staff builds. Not a huge fan, but smite is intolerable.

[near wyvern]

Nowadays you don't fo battery tho cause ER so strong

You go EP instead

[split lance]

ah you see

[restive stag]

i think smiteh as some use cases if you need an immidiete and useful shotgun stun

[split lance]

i hate this style of play

[restive stag]

but past that its bad and people misuse it alot

[echo root]

It's not a bad ability at all, it's just boring and slows the pace down for me.

[split lance]

which is why i dont like smite

[near wyvern]

What style of play? I don't game there just watch Netflix.

[echo root]

I'd rather play risky and lose than slow and safe

[split lance]

forces you into playing a certain way

[restive stag]

you can play risky while also having a fallback in the form of smite

its just about how you use it

[split lance]

lol i had a couple runs blocked by youtube bc i was watching house and you could faintly hear it on the video

[cyan portal]

Is this sufficient data? https://youtu.be/wp6CMxzJUtw?si=inZBIi74XeMaKHT-&t=1150 I have Psyk Aura, my teammate MrTwoTime doesn't. Watching the next 10ish seconds at 0.25 speed, you can see my ult cd jump (visual and number), when I get a few Elite kills, but not jump at all when he gets several more. That run is probably full of similar examples, it was just the first one I found skipping through.

[restive stag]

you arent supposed to sit still in a crowd holding down your m1 button

[split lance]

its too slow for me tho

i wanna run

im a speedrunner at heart

which is why i like kf

[lethal lagoon]

More like a downer at heart

[split lance]

you get a very fast first pick

[lethal lagoon]

[split lance]

and it snowballs into a faster run

[split lance]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1316623492426371092/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp.gif

[lethal lagoon]

So, I didn't go down there.

[split lance]

u went ded

[lethal lagoon]

u went down

[split lance]

i blew up

[lethal lagoon]

[split lance]

i brought you to hell with me

i just didnt make it there like you didi

[lethal lagoon]

That's where you are wrong tren

I was escaping from hell

[split lance]

no

u died

[split lance]

tren is never wrong

https://tenor.com/view/ocean-park-roy-rooster-chicken-anime-gif-13891991899080259072

[restive stag]

is that true

[split lance]

no

[lethal lagoon]

Only death could set me free from that hell

[restive stag]

oh ok

[split lance]

fax

[cyan portal]

@near wyvern https://youtu.be/mWyU349pnrM Showing that you can fit a full charge from 1 tick of quell if you have warp resist dumped, but not if quell speed is dumped. Imo the only situation that quell speed and warp resist actually matters is when you need to create peril overhead when capped at 100 and ult is still on CD, It also shows Solidity has no effect on first quell tick, in the hope of convincing more siblings to start using Puppet Master to make sure the blunts aren't missing out on our juicy CDR.

[bold cape]

holy

[plucky flax]

[ripe obsidian]

I've swapped off of KF for the moment. I do miss it, but I like other nodes more.

I might swap back to it at some point. It's hard to tell how much Wildfire is benefitting me.

[split lance]

THERES NO NODE ID RATHER TAK E

[ripe obsidian]

I swapped it out for 6 charges of warp siphon

More bubbles

[cyan portal]

Wildfire has most value when another psyker on team is applying soulblaze without purgatus

[ripe obsidian]

Why is that?

It seems pretty useful for ramping up soulblaze stacks as the horde comes in

[cyan portal]

Whoever applies the first soulblaze stack becomes the owner, regardless of who else subsequently adds stacks. Being the owner means your (and only your) buffs and weapon perks are applied to the DoT damage. A good Purgatus player will be buffing their DoTs by maintaining Blaze Away (+40% power), Warp Rider (+20% damage), and Warp Charges (16-24% damage). But if another Psyker applies the first stack then none of those buffs will have any effect, even if you add 15-30 more stacks afterwards. Because wildfire spreads at the edge of a fight it results in applying the majority of those first stacks and thus gives you ownership of the majority of them.

[nocturne dust]

@fiery stratus ggs, thx for the games

[fiery stratus]

[ripe obsidian]

I know all of the soulblaze ownership stuff. Just didn't click to me that it's a "get away from my turf" situation

I have been making an effort at doing short charges and LMB quell cancel to keep Blaze Away up. Warp Rider is usually at 60%+ peril. Warp charges are... whatever they are. I'm throwing down too many bubbles for them to be maxed all the time

[cyan portal]

Blaze away is a massive boost, and a blazing spirit blast/void isn't adding that value, and can stop you from adding it if they open fights with shriek, use wildfire themselves, etc.

Ideally you convince them to remove soulblaze from their build, except PC.

Then you don't need to run wildfire either

[ripe obsidian]

I usually do rending Trauma if I am the second psyker

I'm doing my part.

I feel like Wildfire is also very useful for getting warp charges with the 10% when a burning enemy dies node.

[split lance]

so what im reading is purg psykers need to simply be better

i like it

[cyan portal]

Yeah, its value beyond boosting ownership is still alright, but more questionable. If you're fighting for stack ownership it is a must pick.

[ripe obsidian]

KF popping high value targets and adding boss DPS is nice. I'll probably swap between Wildfire and KF a few times to see which I prefer.

[cyan portal]

You can troll a purga player extremely hard by just grabbing wildfire and opening every fight with a venting shriek

Bonus points if you're running blazing voidstrike

[split lance]

Thats how i play

lmao

purga should just be in fron

front

their fault

[cyan portal]

your scoreboard will look phenomenal because most of their dmg will be attributed to you

lol, its hard to be in front of the range of a blazing voidstrike

[split lance]

IT DOES

[nocturne dust]

Tren is very familiar with soulblaze theft

[cyan portal]

taking 40% power out of most of the DoT dmg is kinda fucking your team though

[nocturne dust]

many such matches

[nocturne dust]

Imagine if Blaze Away just universally applied to all soulblaze

[split lance]

not my fault they arent in from

front

[nocturne dust]

I was in front mfer

Shriek is longer

[split lance]

ur zealot

mfer

lmao

[nocturne dust]

Does zealot do soulblaze, mfer?

[restive stag]

well that depends

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/no-donald-glover-gif-9328128

[split lance]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH these runs

u were never in front

dont lie

[nocturne dust]

[restive stag]

with inferno you can be in front easilly

[cyan portal]

If I were in that kinda match I'd hope you have exceptional barrel awareness.

[nocturne dust]

Look, I spend a lot of time keeping things away from the back, yeah, but I was definitely in front

[split lance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWOnzuggV-c&t=792s

i got the reciepts mfer

[split lance]

unfortunately i died to a pox

that i didnt hear

[nocturne dust]

literally the first moment I skip to, I'm in front of you

3:18

[split lance]

while fighting a plague ogryn

hmmmmmmm

thats not doing your case very well

[nocturne dust]

I don't know how

I'm also in front around 5:18

I will grant you're in front of me around 14:00 though

[split lance]

Irrelevant

i dont have a shield

so i shouldnt be running out in front of rangers like that

[nocturne dust]

Maybe you should get one

[summer prairie]

No way to compete with surge shriek for stack ownership with bubble purg in havoc

[split lance]

well

i asked like 4 times if yall wanted me to swap

[split lance]

ill beat a surge shriek with a trauma

dont @ me

[nocturne dust]

That's funny, I seem to remember you losing to Atlas quite often when on trauma

[split lance]

No?

i dont think so

i remember i beat him

on at least one game

lol

but prolly the others yeah

[nocturne dust]

To be fair, I didn't know you were thinking of swapping to bubble. All I heard was you wanting to switch.

and I only answered once anyway.

[split lance]

but i was also using rending not blaze

[nocturne dust]

that would mean quite often you lose, yes

[split lance]

MORE RANGED DMG THO

[nocturne dust]

So how did you guys manage today, anyway?

[split lance]

(im coping, ill find anythign)

went alright

were at 38 or something now

we should get 40 tomorrow assuming we dont get stupid games

[nocturne dust]

Don't worry, 39 will be Gloriana

and 40 will be the new map in which it will be easy right up until a full wipe to a bug... 3 separate bugs 3 times.

[split lance]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1316623492426371092/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1316625544019968040/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_1.gif

GLORIANA DID NOT GO WELL

we lost, didnt finish it

we had a couple series of unfortunate events

[nocturne dust]

That seems to happen a lot on Gloriana

[mellow heath]

For the Souldrinker talent, does it trigger from killing things that have soulblaze on them, or just if they die from the soulblaze itself? I assume it's the former, but just making sure before I consider seeing if I can find a point to toss it's way now that I've caved and am seeing if perilous combustion is as good as people online keep saying it is (it seems so bad, and seemed awful when I tested it when I was a lower level, but we're on higher difficulties now which is when I'm told it's more useful, and at least it synergizes with disrupt destiny (though it'll make my targets harder to spot...))

[nocturne dust]

Souldrinker is weird and works wonkily

It only triggers on deaths from soulblaze... or when soulblaze ticks at the same time as death

In practice this means you sometimes get toughness even when soulblaze doesn't kill, but only a soulblaze kill guarantees toughness

[mellow heath]

Ew

Probably not worth trying to grab then

[nocturne dust]

yeh it's dumb

I don't know of any builds where Souldrinker is... good.

[mellow heath]

If it was consistent and just triggered on killing things with soulblaze on them it'd be a solid pickup

But yeah, no

[nocturne dust]

Nah

It would still be

[mellow heath]

Ehh

[nocturne dust]

It's only toughness and 5% crit.

Pretty meh.

[mellow heath]

I mean, for my build specifically, assuming perilous is as good as people make it out to be, it'd be quite nice

Toughness and crit are things I want

[nocturne dust]

It may sound good in theory, but Psyker's top nodes generate enough toughness that generally it's not very valuable

and Souldrinker doesn't even refresh the crit, you have to wait for the buff to expire to get the full duration again, so it has other issues

plus, Perilous Combustion, if it's your only soulblaze source, isn't that consistent for defense. You want defense to be consistent more than anything, which is why Kinetic Deflection is so valuable. It lets you retain stamina and do so much while also blocking.

[mellow heath]

I'd always like more 🤷‍♂️

And I haven't indexed that hard into the top nodes currently

Though maybe I should lol

I've been shifting slowly to be more of actually keeping peril high

[nocturne dust]

More won't generally help past the top nodes, though

🤷‍♂️

[mellow heath]

I was initially just pure sword and not actually using peril much, so I didn't take those ones

[nocturne dust]

If it's an issue like that, I would highly recommend just getting better at making use of your dodges and sliding over investing talent points into more toughness

[echo root]

PC is mostly for Purg/Blazing Trauma builds

[nocturne dust]

You have to interact with peril on Psyker

[echo root]

The fact that it doesn't respect the max soulblaze stack cap is what makes it good imo

[nocturne dust]

Meleeker's best way to stay alive is to swap to assail and spam it

[nocturne dust]

EK tho

Really, only Voidstrike forgoes PC

[mellow heath]

I mean, I am now, but you'd be shocked what I was getting away with by just great sword meleeing and not doing anything else 99% of the time lol

[nocturne dust]

and potentially gunker/meleeker

[echo root]

Yeah, cause you go right see on the tree

[mellow heath]

But yeah, I'm mixing in assail and stuff more now

[nocturne dust]

I doubt I'd be shocked, FGS is good

[nocturne dust]

It's not necessarily about the sides, EK would still want PC because it enables the entire fire build for EK.

[clear heath]

I don't have assail on my fgs build either

[nocturne dust]

Even if PC was out of the way.

[nocturne dust]

Eh, but FGS doesn't really have the speed What do you use instead?

[echo root]

I run PC on all my staff builds (I don't play voidstrike) it just doesn't feel that impactful on EK

Compared to Trauma/Purga where you benefit more from how SB stacks scale.

[clear heath]

only thing i felt i needed to give it was warp splitting dd and malefic. Didn't even take scriers

[clear heath]

I had smite fgs bubble dd when i ran with you

[nocturne dust]

eeeehhh? But EK's whole thing that allows it to out-damage every other staff is PC and psykinetics

[clear heath]

and ek staff

and like 70% of my damage was melee

[nocturne dust]

I mean not taking Scrier's was fair

FGS does have the damage

[clear heath]

yeah it doesn't feel like it really needs the scriers, and bubble helps a lot on havoc

[echo root]

Can you go into meat grinder and spawn one speical with ~6 horde next to it then brain pop it to see actual damage?
I'm at work or I'd do it myself.

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, but I was more thinking of outside Havoc. Havoc is much slower and weirder.

[clear heath]

DD and mettle handled movespeed okay

[nocturne dust]

I wholeheartedly disagree, those are terrible for movespeed

DD is only 2.5 seconds every time you kill a target

which is just

[clear heath]

outside of havoc I dont have any getting movespeed either, since ek actually gets DD kills

[nocturne dust]

not enough duration

at all

[clear heath]

in havoc ek doesn't finish off shit and i don't get dd as often

anyways mettle is goated

[nocturne dust]

Mettle is more okay but still eh, like it's only active in the thick and that's when you need movespeed the least

[clear heath]

i mean keep in mind i have ek staff and riposte on the fgs
getting crits is consistent enough

i'll generally gapclose while spamming the staff

[nocturne dust]

I have riposte too

My point stands

[nocturne dust]

but why?

[clear heath]

also outside of havoc, i'm really not out of combat like ever

usually i just rush ahead to constantly fight things

zealot's my second main. abandoning teammates to rush ahead comes as naturally as breathing

[echo root]

I'm just curious to how much it actually does

[clear heath]

EK just wants perilous because it's both good at picking out targets, and because most builds with it will run shriek

[mellow heath]

I feel like I should actually send my current build to see if with the many levels I've gotten since I last sent it, and the shifts I've made in it since then, I've made any major issues in it. Cause I feel like, with how this convo has gone, I may have lol. But also maybe it's fine lol. Focus on sword and now actually mixing in assail to keep peril reasonably high, staff is built to kill big things and bosses, sword is uses most of the time.
(most recent addition is perilous combustion and swapping from lingering to perfectionism, haven't tried that out yet, used lingering up till now)

[nocturne dust]

Mmmmmm, what you're suggesting will probably look bad out of context but alright

[clear heath]

well, i'm also currently not running perilous on my build but that's cause ek isn't the focus

[echo root]

I'm not interested in making anything look bad, just curious how much damage it does to mobs that don't have SB stacks.

You have to take into account that the talent is stronger the higher difficulty you play due to how many more elites/specials will be present.

[nocturne dust]

It's also stronger due to enemy density and soulblaze stacking exponentially in the beginning

[clear heath]

killing 1 special won't really do enough to accomplish anything

killing 2 will kill trash mobs

[nocturne dust]

Yeh, 1 kill won't do much unless you're running Inferno and have blaze away

but even then I'm not sure if blaze away would be enough. Would probably need wildfire shenanigans

[clear heath]

iirc 3 stacks of soulblaze is basically nothing
probably removes a quarter of a poxwalker's hp

[nocturne dust]

https://youtu.be/ZOK2b0jczlo

[echo root]

It's like 5 per tick before damage increases afaik

15s duration with a 0.75 tick rate

Unless I'm mistaken

[nocturne dust]

You are mistaken

See video

[clear heath]

wow i wasn't far off with it being a quarter

[nocturne dust]

It's 9

[echo root]

I will see once I'm out of this meeting

[nocturne dust]

Also this is my BB build

so I don't have any interfering buffs like warp siphon

[mellow heath]

Man, this talent still looks really bad.

Like, I get it, more specialists higher difficulties

But man is it so awful in a vacuum

[nocturne dust]

It's actually amazing

Not really, even in a vacuum, I clearly showed it killing 6 poxwalkers with 2 elites

So it at least does something

[knotty locust]

its one of those talents you think is bad when you just kinda gloss over it imo

[blissful solar]

soulblaze does expontential damage with more stacks so one instance of it isnt quite what it'll be doing in a real game

[mellow heath]

I mean, killing chaff enemies over the course of multiple seconds after multiple elites are killed near them at the cost of a talent point still seems bleh

[knotty locust]

isnt the dot calculation like

Uber fucked

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️ I dunno, I'm a long-time nerd and gamer so I guess my sixth sense just told me what talents were good.

[knotty locust]

for soulblaze

[nocturne dust]

It's just an S curve

Pretty simple

[mellow heath]

Only reason I'm trying it out in my build is the disrupt destiny synergy

[knotty locust]

one of the dots has a really weird way of being calculated i thought?

[clear heath]

they're all kinda like this

[nocturne dust]

I mean, I'm not sure how bleed or burn are calculated

iirc bleed is dumb

something about it needing uncanny to be good

[mellow heath]

My senses have been mostly decent for this game (even if I don't always follow them), except for specifically perilous

After hearing everyone out on it I can sorta see how it can be nice on builds with bag chaff clearing but good elite clearing on higher difficulties, but as some general amazing talent it still just doesn't sound right to me

[clear heath]

it just works really well if you have literally any other source of soulblaze

[whole oxide]

It's one of pysker's strongest nodes......... when a clown-car of elites/specials appear, you just have to kill 3-4, and everything else in the area dies

[clear heath]

like i think 9 stacks will just kill a gunner

[mellow heath]

I mean, sure, with other soulblaze stuff, sure, yeah, it's synergy so synergy is good

[clear heath]

and shriek is 6 and perilous is 3 so like

[mellow heath]

But as a general talent for normal builds? /:

[clear heath]

if it's completely alone it's kinda meh

[clear heath]

okay but most "normal builds" have some soulblaze in it

[mellow heath]

No??

[clear heath]

we're only just starting to see more builds that don't have any with the rise of bubble
but most havoc builds are blaze trauma or inferno anyways

shriek was on the majority of staff builds before this patch

it was really only gunpsyker that didn't take it cause scriers

[mellow heath]

There are, like, 2 talents total that give soulblaze, and, what, 1 staff and a sword blessing that give it?

Why would it be normal for a build to 'happen to have some soulblaze'

[clear heath]

shriek

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914150363844779/1169074077194014730/soulblaze_stall.mp4?ex=675b8314&is=675a3194&hm=8dac42628fb0f48a2f6fb3df68722a0ec1461b428583ef758d9595a884991f28&

because 6 stacks of soulblaze is really good and it gives exactly 6

[whole oxide]

creeping flames is pretty common on staff builds, and very spammable

[mellow heath]

Especially since those 2 talents are counting the one in question

[nocturne dust]

If you kill enough elites, it clears the rest. It also stacks with other soulblaze and goes over the cap for every weapon that can generate it

[restive stag]

it also softens up each subsequent elite/special if theyre clumped together which makes thngs like rager packs alot easier to deal with since youre doing a solid third of their hp while doing nothing you wouldnt otherwise do

[clear heath]

i would say before the havoc update, it was normal to run shriek on most builds

[restive stag]

yeah its really good for softening up eally anything that isnt a crusher

[nocturne dust]

The meta before havoc absolutely was Shriek

[restive stag]

it isnt just about chaff

[whole oxide]

yeah, i dunno why people think a talent is bad if it doesn't literally kill everything on screen. reducing elite HP by 50% is still big value, reduces how much weapon damage you need

[restive stag]

yeah

[mellow heath]

I ran the fire shriek when I did a fire build for a bit

[restive stag]

like for gun psyker thats objectively increasing ur ammo efficiency because lower enemy hp means less ammo spent on said enemies

which is just one example as to why its such a versatile and strong perk on so many builds

[mellow heath]

But, like, I could also have just swung my sword and killed all those guys

[clear heath]

Also like actually think about the builds in question here too
Inferno is obvious
Most trauma builds will be blazing spirit builds cause it just does better damage
Electro staff builds want shriek to even have functional horde clear
The remaining builds are voidstrike or gunpsyker

[clear heath]

you could also leave them to die and kill something else

basically doubling the amount of hordes you kill

[restive stag]

yeah

[mellow heath]

You say that like swinging my sword takes super long, and also now I still have an ability available

[whole oxide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHg6tov0vDc

[restive stag]

theyre basically marked to die and as long as theyre not going to kill you, you might aswell spend effort elsewhere and you can kill two chunks of the horde at once

[whole oxide]

you aren't killing that much stuff with your sword as quickly

[restive stag]

also 3 specials/elite kills will literally take out any chaff within the radius of the specials/elites within like
less than a second

[mellow heath]

Not quite that quickly, but quickly enough, and without using an ability

[restive stag]

and having 3 specials or elites in a mixed horde isnt exactly like
an insane demand or an out there situation

[restive stag]

yeah

[mellow heath]

I still just don't see why it's an assumption that everyone is running fire shriek or fire swords

Like, sure, it's a useful horde clear ability

Cool, nice

That's good to have

[whole oxide]

on higher difficulty, there are plenty of situations where it is impossible to stand your ground and melee the horde. you have to keep moving to avoid elites/specials/bosses, so being able to quickly throw CF out and then keep moving, is very high value

[nocturne dust]

fire swords? That's not a thing and that's not an assumption

[clear heath]

or, you could shriek half the enemies and swing your sword or whatever at the remaining ones
or you special snipe with lightning staff while the horde dies

[mellow heath]

That's what they're saying though

[clear heath]

i did not say fire sword

[mental rock]

my opinion is that if you run shriek, you must take creeping flames, no ifs ands or buts

[nocturne dust]

It's an assumption people run Shriek because it's many, many times more effective than Bubble and Scrier's

[clear heath]

did i mention fire sword here?

[mellow heath]

Sorry, I'm using the wrong term or whatever

[nocturne dust]

Nobody said fire sword

[mellow heath]

Sword with the fire blessing

Whatever

[clear heath]

i didn't mention a sword

[nocturne dust]

That's the same thing

and nobody mentioned it

fire swords suck

[clear heath]

blazing spirit is on staves too, and i only mentioned it on trauma

voidblast, whatever you wanna call it

blazing spirit sword is actual dogshit