psyker-class

[upper galleon]

malice andies don't care if void staff does 10% more or less damage

they don't even know what a breakpoint is

[mental grail]

what audience? because the audience plays heresy/malice

[spice veldt]

infinite cleave is also just very deranged

[upper galleon]

yes but they are influenced by the content creators

[spice veldt]

like, we can still set purg to have very high finite cleave

and have the ability to balance the cleave

but with infinite cleave

[dusky crag]

the general audience definately plays malice. Hate that place.

[lyric burrow]

idk how you design a game around density threat and then give shit infinite cleave

[lethal lagoon]

#psyker-class message
#psyker-class message
?

[spice veldt]

there is no nuance to speak of

[lethal lagoon]

I feel like you are just arguing to argue brother.

[ornate hamlet]

he is

[dusky crag]

or infinte dodges like old force sword

[lethal lagoon]

Which is fun, but keep that to reddit

[lyric burrow]

yeah old force sword was funny

[upper galleon]

like i know it sounds bad to "don't worry about the masses" but the masses are stupid

people are stupid

[mental grail]

why set it at all? because the Auric Andy's think that purg clears hordes too well?

[spice veldt]

it's just the same old "nerfs bad" argument that we've been having

[upper galleon]

half the people on this eart are dumber than average

[spice veldt]

because purg isn't good for just hordes

your premise is based on an underestimation of purg

[upper galleon]

cause that wouldn't effect lower diffs at all

[ornate hamlet]

just quit justifying them with responses, they arnt debating in good faith this is just ha your dumb because (makes something up)

[upper galleon]

oh wow, purge can't go through infinite enemies, guess my low int malice games are ruined

[spice veldt]

"X is only good for hordes" is an argument that we've heard multiple times for multiple weapons

[mental grail]

you're getting more out of the staff than almost everyone else, you do realize that right?

[spice veldt]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN

[supple dock]

I was gonna say, wouldn't most balance changes not make a difference in lower levels so the only reasonable thing to do is balance it around high levels in minute and tiny ways that only make sense there?

[spice veldt]

JUST HOLD RMB

THERE IS NO SKILL EXPRESSION TO PURG

i am going to have an aneurysm

[lyric burrow]

purge is not rocket science

[cosmic sigil]

there is lmb

arco

[lyric burrow]

you point it at shit

[upper galleon]

psyker doesn't have a lot of skill expression in general lol

[ornate hamlet]

its pretty simple

[upper galleon]

don't blow up

point at shit

[cosmic sigil]

you never lmb????

[lunar hollow]

"you're better than other players" isn't the own it has been made out to be

[mental grail]

it's not an own

??

[cosmic sigil]

JOSHO!

[mental grail]

it's a statement of fact

[spice veldt]

the way that i'm using purg is not that different from people with less hours than me

[supple dock]

idk about you guys psyker is fucking hard

yall are way too good for me

[dusky crag]

it can be

[lyric burrow]

everyone uses purg the same after one mission

[spice veldt]

i am using purg practically the same as somebody who just picked purg up

[upper galleon]

yea, basically lower elos need some balance, but that is more abstract, things like frustration, large outliers etc

[spice veldt]

obviously i'm doing other things differently

but my usage of purg, the weapon itself, is not that different

and i am talking specifically about the weapon

[cosmic sigil]

they could balance each weapons around each difficulties no?

[lunar hollow]

the purge staff is one of those funny examples where it has almost no skill expression involved so its one of the least viable examples of something only being absurd if you give it to a good player

[cosmic sigil]

or just for auric

[upper galleon]

like, ok, assail is making every difficulty a cake walk, but especially lower diffs where their teammates can't even paly, so it got nerfed

[spice veldt]

i'm just talking about purg specifically
like sure i'm dodging around more and i have better positioning

but that is completely unrelated to purg

[ornate hamlet]

way to much work

[upper galleon]

too much work

[ornate hamlet]

lmao

[upper galleon]

and low diffs, don't care

about minute changes

[cosmic sigil]

i mean. just change the adm for auric

[lunar hollow]

this was the case with something like old autopistol too, you just suffered through the shitty crafting system and you had a gun you just run around shooting into everything that isnt carapace/a boss and annihilating it

[lyric burrow]

this would also probably just add confusion for people

[cosmic sigil]

well no you're right

it's like elite resistance

it would be bad

[spice veldt]

infinite cleave is ridiculous
infinite anything is ridiculous (w/o significant falloff, and the purg has no falloff to speakoff besides a binary cutoff at the end of its range)

[lyric burrow]

it would be nice but not realistic

[mental grail]

assail doesn't make high diff levels a cakewalk anymore until you stack ep with it, until you do it's just a tool

[lunar hollow]

casual players in darktide generally care a lot more about how something feels rather than the actual performance of it - there was this really funny situation where the chain weapons sucked hard

[spice veldt]

assail is absolutely too good

[lyric burrow]

Assail is 100% too strong and that is again not hard to use

[spice veldt]

at minimum, it has 5 max shards too many

[supple dock]

this is true

[lunar hollow]

but people would pick up an eviscerator and go "this weapon feels SICK" even though it was just... terrible, and they would run with it all the way to damnation

[lyric burrow]

assail is disgusting

[lunar hollow]

where it couldn't even one shot mutants with a revved heavy

[lyric burrow]

and its not just EP

[lethal lagoon]

[spice veldt]

assail gets disgusting bonuses from DD

[lyric burrow]

DD also buffs the shit out of it and base Assail is too strong as well

[spice veldt]

well, anything weakspot/crit does

[upper galleon]

yea. assail is a fire and forget tool that isn't gonna constantly overbear

[spice veldt]

but that includes assail of course

[lethal lagoon]

Average chain axe user

[nocturne dust]

Idk, in my auric maelstrom experience I find assail to be meh.

[mental grail]

I'm distinctly starting to get the impression you simply want to make the game less fun overall

[spice veldt]

what do you mean

[lunar hollow]

casual players care way less about numbers unless something is obscenely bad or good

[spice veldt]

it's not fun to be able to spam 10 auto aim shards all the time

it's fun to have resource management in a game

[ornate hamlet]

as much as i want to agree, nah its assail... even without dd its pretty nuts

[mental grail]

yes it is, what are you saying?

[spice veldt]

and actually care about running about assail shards

[upper galleon]

and, i will add, even before mk12 being released, the mk4 chain axe was viable for a few patches but no one wanted to play it cause it felt bad and it took mk12 release for it to get attention

[supple dock]

for what a blitz is "supposed" to do, being able to just walk out for a not insignificant portion of the run with your blitz out is insanely good

[mental grail]

it's very cathartic to hurl a wave of death shards

[upper galleon]

nerfs are necessary

[lyric burrow]

its fun to be challenged and have to like think in my meant to be hard difficulty

[upper galleon]

you may not like it

[spice veldt]

all the time?

[upper galleon]

but you are like a kid not wanting to eat veggies

[lunar hollow]

yeah. there's a reason people take bolter to magdump into poxwalkers

[upper galleon]

or not go to the doctor

[spice veldt]

like, assail has other properties like really good stagger

[dusky crag]

Fun that comes at the expense of other people in a coop game isn't fun at all

[nocturne dust]

I mean, that's the same with smite though

[lyric burrow]

are things truly only fun if you are just face rolling the map

[spice veldt]

that are overshadowed by the fact that it just kills stuff

you don't need to conserve shards

or use them primarily for stagger

[lyric burrow]

would it instantly become unfun if it got nerfed

[spice veldt]

because you can just kill

[lyric burrow]

to be reasonable

[nocturne dust]

The only one that's real not okay is brain rupture imo

[upper galleon]

i mean, I think psyker gets some leeway with blitz

[supple dock]

smite is also very, very good, but less....egregious? I guess. It's just as busted just not as brazen

[spice veldt]

i don't get why you are strictly associating nerfs = unfun

[lunar hollow]

"fun" is subjective and oftentimes nerfs to obscenely overpowered stuff in tide games happens because it's so oppressive or meta defining a lot of people feel obligated to use it or theyre throwing

[upper galleon]

since they aren't grenades, they are wizard powers

they should be able to use some blitzs more than other classes

[lunar hollow]

or if they get in a party with a dude using the obscenely overpowered stuff they dont even really feel like they have to play

[ornate hamlet]

nerfs in the right situation can be fun to, what is more enjoyable a interactive fight where you actually have to think or a fight where you stood in a doorway and spammed void

[upper galleon]

yep, and inb4 "just buff"

[spice veldt]

i have not seen you explain in depth how it would become unfun

[upper galleon]

you cannot buff the weakest gear to the highest gear level it simply doesn't work

you cannot, in any sense, buff tactical axe to pre nerf power sword for example

[nocturne dust]

I don't think assail is busted at all unless you're playing on low difficulties. I'd rather a staff than assail almost all the time.

[lunar hollow]

old assail was problematic for a lot of people because if you are an average player and you got in a party with an assail user you don't have the mechanical skill or game knowledge to be able to still kill stuff effectively

[supple dock]

function plays a huge role in the importance of numbers in nerfs

[mental grail]

Nerfs are necessary, but wanting to half assail throw count, nerf 3 of the 4 staffs and make the game more of a resource juggler than a casual horde shooter is not fun.

Like at all.

[dusky crag]

Smite staggers stuff it doesn't kill things. It tells your teammates "Hey go get them" it's an enabler I suppose

[mental grail]

It's ass, really.

[upper galleon]

but it's not a casual horde shooter

[spice veldt]

then they can step down in difficulty

like i said

[upper galleon]

40k is a sweaty horde shooter

[supple dock]

yeah in AM it's strong without being OP

[spice veldt]

people can just step down in difficulty

[lunar hollow]

for the record, when it comes to psyker, i think a lot of the people who want to make changes to staffs also want to make the psyker tree significantly more interesting even when it just comes to node count

[upper galleon]

you have your casual difficulties

[lunar hollow]

psyker suffers for diversity in the actual talent tree

[ornate hamlet]

or play one of the other classes that are not resource jugglers

[supple dock]

EP smite will kill an entire pack of ragers in about 8-10 seconds

[lunar hollow]

a lot of the builds hit all the same core points

[mental grail]

It doesn't even have a scoreboard, or integrated true level count. It is definitely casual.

[lunar hollow]

darktide is what you make of it

[upper galleon]

it odesn't have those cause fatshark didn't want to risk the toxicity and it was released way too early

[lyric burrow]

even if its "meant" to be casual the highest difficulty should not be

[supple dock]

I think the game has too many sound cues happening at once to be considered very casual

[upper galleon]

not because they want it to be casual

[lunar hollow]

there's plenty of room for tryharding and figuring out the niche mechanics and there's plenty of ways you can just play and use some 40k weapons and then log off

[upper galleon]

auric is literally meant to not be casual

[nocturne dust]

I would say it's okay. I think strong is... a strong word. It's no plasma gun/shieldgryn.

[spice veldt]

if people want to have a casual experience without worrying about more-stringent resource management, then there's always the lower difficulties

[lunar hollow]

a lot of the content added has been specifically aimed at offering ways to make the game harder

the big thing here is balancing what the different "communities" want from the game

[mental grail]

There is nothing stopping them from bringing it back other than their own not seeing it worth prioritizing.

[supple dock]

Well, by "strong" I mean it competes with or as best in slot

Not OP, just vgood

[lunar hollow]

tide games have like, always had a strong presence of a dedicated community that knows a lot about the game and generally outgrows the official difficulty

in vt2 u solved that with modded realm

here they have taken away the modded realm which is very sad

[mental grail]

It is manageable unless you count literal sound bugs. That us until you step into mael, where it is legitimately supposed to be that chaotic.

[nocturne dust]

Sure, but I think psyker blitzes are generally not great when compared to other classes and what they can do. Don't get me wrong, they can be useful but they don't reach the heights of other classes as far as I've seen

[spice veldt]

i'm not going to talk about brain burst and smite
but with respect to assail, it is very good

[upper galleon]

dev time

and priorities

[spice veldt]

unless you are just using it as a main weapon and dumping your 10 shards all at once

[mental grail]

Balancing things around a difficulty most people do not play is bad game design.

[lunar hollow]

i dunno psyker blitzes are pretty insane relative to the other ones

[nocturne dust]

I kind of agree but I would expand it to auric in general

[upper galleon]

only if you cut out context in your head

[lunar hollow]

the only thing i would say that strictly beats them is ogryn nuke in the extra blitz maelstroms

[spice veldt]

it's an auto-aim weapon with the potential for a lot of damage and with stagger that enables you to use other weapons while aiming the shards

and at a very low active time cost

[lyric burrow]

and quickswap

and its infinite ammo

[ornate hamlet]

it staggers ragers

[upper galleon]

it sounds bad in your head cause you don't want to think, you want to feel motivated

[spice veldt]

well, "aim assist" weapon

not auto aim

[ornate hamlet]

kills gunners

[lyric burrow]

other than waiting for fast regen

[lunar hollow]

brainburst (especially EP) is straight up just better than ogryn rock

[upper galleon]

but yes, you don't balance around the majority

[ornate hamlet]

picks off snipers, assail is pretty good

[lunar hollow]

vs tknives its more competitive

[upper galleon]

cause the majority is dumb and doesn't care

[mental grail]

No. It's like that in general, with caveats. Especially for a game who's population is 50% casual console pubs.

[spice veldt]

yeah but players can step down in difficulty

this isn't a game with a singular difficulty

[ornate hamlet]

malice exists

heresy exists

[upper galleon]

you balance high diff elitists first because they are your core audience and more likely to influence the perspective of your game

then you go to the lower diffs if needed

[lunar hollow]

the population of the game fluctuates wildly and the vast majority of the more casual players stop playing in the long wait between updates

[balmy flax]

Smite is amazing. Either charge type for different reasons and play styles.

Brain burst I like with charged on elite kills.

Think assail is psykers least interesting blitz. But its good, easy to chuck a few between other actions.

[lunar hollow]

even the console players who are still around are probably more dedicated than what you would call "casual"

[upper galleon]

but they usually need more abstract balance, they are based on perception and frustration, not because they can't hit a breakpoint

[ornate hamlet]

the casual left

[mental grail]

Or, you can not care what the auric regulars are saying and just not do that.

[spice veldt]

what do you mean?

[balmy flax]

Would like a new tier of difficulty though. In a competent team maelstrom isnt as challenging as I would like.
Not like cataclysm Twitch, nevermind modded vt2.

[spice veldt]

a balance discussion is going to be theoretical in nature and is going to be a bunch of "what ifs"

why are you just saying "just don't" in response to that

[ornate hamlet]

this game forces you to grind for weapons, wait on shops to get curios and we call it casual

[spice veldt]

at this point, you're just being contrarian for no reason to me

[nocturne dust]

In my opinion, not really because they're basically just an extra gun/weapon of sorts rather than a nuke option, so they have an expressely different purpose. The issue is that extra gun may not be all that useful since you carry two already that can generally handle most things. This is true of any class, they can all carry two weapons that can handle every enemy in the game.

[mental grail]

Do they not make those updates and advertisements to draw exactly those people (and new players, ofc) back to the game.

[spice veldt]

though they're very good "extra guns", and that opens up build choices as well

[nocturne dust]

The psyker loses the ability to toss down a grenade in an emergency in exchange for... an extra gun.

[lunar hollow]

pretty infrequently

[spice veldt]

trauma staff

[ornate hamlet]

the grenade staff

[lunar hollow]

also u will be very disheartened to know a lot of balance changes happen because of the closed playtesting community fatshark has for darktide

[nocturne dust]

I wouldn't call them very good, barring smite, just okay.

[mental grail]

I feel like that is just FS own slow update rate. The purpose I feel is still there.

[spice veldt]

i don't care for the other two blitzes, but I would call assail very good

[ornate hamlet]

smite is stupid, assail is just strong, brainburst eh idk i like it

[lunar hollow]

it is actually possible to take considerable amounts of feedback from a non-casual section of the community and still have relatively decent balancing

[mental grail]

I being contrarian because a believe it is a bad idea, no mistake.

[nocturne dust]

Nah, my experience with assail is I'd rather just use a staff. It's okay, but it's not anything special on AM.

[spice veldt]

but you keep bringing points like "what about players who don't want to step down or what if it's bad for optics", and I've already said to just ignore it because it's just a "what if" balance discussion

[ornate hamlet]

what staff the void, if so i dont blame you (its voidstaff fault)

[spice veldt]

if we had to consider optics and player behavior, the discussion would be more complicated

like, just consider just the fact that infinite cleave for purg is just stupid

and that we should have more nuance in balancing it by giving it a very high but finite cleave

[balmy flax]

Smoke grenades, zealot knives, ogryn rock. Several blitzes dont have oh shit potential.

Think ogryn cluster bomb is meh. Personally dont like knives, only with bolter.
Shredder / flash CC pales hard compared to smite.

[nocturne dust]

Void/surge/trauma. Only staff I use with assail would be purg, for obvious range reasons and because BR sucks.

[spice veldt]

and just not worry about player behavior for the moment

because if I was worrying about it, i would also be talking about nerfs to enemies and other stuff that is just unrelated to the balance of purg itself

[ornate hamlet]

it works well with surge as well, you go through shooters much quicker trauma as well

[spice veldt]

and it would be a more comprehensive and general discussion

[mental grail]

Are these not considerations when balancing a multi-player live service game? If they aren't to you, I am concerned.

[spice veldt]

i do consider it

my point is that i'm leaving that talk for LATER

and that we're talking about one aspect at a time

and in separate pieces

i'm not saying to ignore player opinion entirely

[lyric burrow]

you can simply state changes you would like to see

[spice veldt]

i'm saying to ignore it for the moment

[lunar hollow]

fatshark has already demonstrated an ability to make significant balance changes to weapons without garnering a huge amount of negative feedback

[supple dock]

too. many. conversations.

[spice veldt]

and just talk about "what if" changes

[upper galleon]

"huge amount"

[supple dock]

is this what it's like for a psyker

[spice veldt]

and to talk about changes in a vacuum and then collate it later

[lunar hollow]

"optics" is not an impossible roadblock that stops any and all ideas for making alterations to the game

[spice veldt]

like, if I was going to recommend more practical changes, then I would have to talk about other aspects of the game

[lunar hollow]

i mean there was that one dude in psyker chat who had a genuine meltdown when someone said "i can't wait for assail nerfs" in p13

[spice veldt]

but if we're just having a discussion about purg, why complicate the discussion when it is obviously implicitly implied that we can't just make changes in a vacuum

[lyric burrow]

that does check out

[ornate hamlet]

i mean this debate started when i said void was a degenerate weapon for babies in much kinder words

so not far off from that assail comment

[dusky crag]

Compared to other horde shooter balance we got it pretty good in darktide land

[mental grail]

It was about the staves in general, less just purg.

[spice veldt]

alright so let's just talk about the staves

[mental grail]

Slightly kinder.

[lunar hollow]

the problem with the staves is there isn't really enough going on with peril

[upper galleon]

power sword nerfs, twice, flaming ripper nerfs, holy revanant nerfs, preliminary panick about the BM rework before people found out it is even better in this version,

[spice veldt]

instead of being "what if players don't want to drop in difficulty?" "What about player optics?", because that's just very tangential to the core discussion and also just an entirely different discussion altogether

[lyric burrow]

even if peril was more meaningful i think trauma/void/purge would probs still be a bit overtuned

[lunar hollow]

you end up with practically resourceless weapons that either feel pretty eh or obscenely good

[lyric burrow]

unless they made some crazy changes

[lunar hollow]

the psword nerf was the only real blowout tbf

[nocturne dust]

Isn't that one of the intentional choices of the game's design?

[upper galleon]

yea, game balance is a journey, not a destination

[spice veldt]

yeah i feel like people are worried about fatshark overnerfing

[lunar hollow]

intentional in the sense that people complained about peril on launch and then it got nerfed so hard it almost doesn't exist unless you don't have any muscle memory for psyker at all

[upper galleon]

it's not even good if it gets solved, you have to keep things fresh

[spice veldt]

when fatshark has been pretty conservative on nerfs for the most part

[dusky crag]

Tbf all of those had shitfits but then the majority of people were like "Yeah they were overtuned" bar holy revenant but the class rework helped overshadow that.

[lunar hollow]

but like, peril doesn't really have many interesting interactions in the psyker tree

[nocturne dust]

Staff dps is only mitigated by the fact you have to constantly quell peril, ammo need not apply

[lunar hollow]

you're also not really limited by it

[lyric burrow]

quell is like a half second of pressing R

and shriek exists anyway

which is super spammable

[spice veldt]

ultimately it's whatevs since other weapons aren't really that limited by ammo anyways

[lunar hollow]

and for void/trauma its hardly a mitigation at all because you quell for 2 ticks and its done

[vale grotto]

Is this salvageable?

[spice veldt]

so i'm fine with what peril is

[upper galleon]

nah tbh, fatshark is too scared of overnerfing, because we live in an age where people think "don't nerf stufff eveer" is a valid balance strat

[lunar hollow]

purg gets that babymode peril stuff where its way harder to suicide

[spice veldt]

p much

[mental grail]

I feel like this is intentional and they are leaving weapons like this because this is somewhat how they want them to be.

[upper galleon]

HR def needed the nerf and zealot is 100% better for it and now martyrdom is a real build

[nocturne dust]

While true, I think the real offset is that psyker is so squishy

[spice veldt]

or that fatshark wants to avoid a review bomb like the psword nerf

[upper galleon]

nah, fatshark is glacially slow and not that great at balancing imo

see 100 cleave plasma gun suddenly

[lyric burrow]

yeah FS is just slow and some stuff is likely testing waters

[lunar hollow]

that doesn't change the incredible simplicity of peril, though

[spice veldt]

like, darktide got reviewbombed because the psword was nerfed from one of the best weapons of all time (absurdly fucking good) to one of the best weapons of all time (really fucking good)

[upper galleon]

psyker isn't even squishy

[nocturne dust]

I don't see simplicity as an issue, though

[spice veldt]

this is the playerbase that fatshark is considering when making balance changes

[upper galleon]

they are more, glass, but hard glass

[ornate hamlet]

no their squishy. just toughness regen is easy

[lyric burrow]

i describe psyker as very swingy

[upper galleon]

you can grab all 4 of the toughness regen talents at the top of the tree and run basically any build

[spice veldt]

swingy

[nocturne dust]

Tell that to my ogryn that can literally wade into a sea of enemies just spamming heavies and come out the other side with no health damage

[mental grail]

160 base health

[lyric burrow]

you have all the toughness gen in the world but you get chipped through toughness once and lose half health

[lunar hollow]

if you compare anything to ogryn you're going to get absolutely stupid results

[upper galleon]

i mean, zealot and ogryns are meant to be denser

[lunar hollow]

because ogryn is just a stupid class

[ornate hamlet]

im dying, oh im fine, im dying, nvm ah im dead

[nocturne dust]

Zealot is completely fine murdering everything while being immortal for 6-second bursts

[upper galleon]

but i have gunner resists, a sniper resists, i have all 4 toughness regen talents, it just zzz

[lunar hollow]

peril's design means there's not a lot of room for interesting gameplay elements or actual baseline mechanical restrictions for staffs

[nocturne dust]

Veteran just spams his shout for all the extra protection

[lunar hollow]

a trauma or void just shit out damage everywhere and there's nothing really preventing it

[upper galleon]

it's punishing if you fail but it's more like a prince ruperts drop

[spice veldt]

though that can be remedied by balancing trauma/void

[upper galleon]

don't get cc'd or unable to deal damage/use magic

[lunar hollow]

quelling is incredibly forgiving

[lyric burrow]

shout is also pretty dumb tbf

[spice veldt]

at least for trauma, we can just nerf the AoE significantly

because it has too much of the combination of damage + stagger + AoE

[lyric burrow]

id like to see traumas bottom end come up and the top end come down

[lethal lagoon]

[upper galleon]

veteran i'd say is squishier than psyker besides the voc builds

[lyric burrow]

so that level 15s arent fucked with it

[spice veldt]

and i don't want to touch trauma's damage

so stagger/aoe is what i'm going to touch

[lyric burrow]

but at level 30 it doesnt win for you

[ornate hamlet]

for the greater good

[lethal lagoon]

There's no need to nerf trauma, cause 99% of people just use rending/flurry

[spice veldt]

non-blazing spirit trauma is still stupid good

[nocturne dust]

I'm not seeing the issue unless you also think Ogryns and Veteran's Plasma Gun need a nerf. And maybe revolver. And a host of other things. Lol.

[spice veldt]

he does

[lethal lagoon]

[lunar hollow]

uh... yeah? there's a bunch of braindead easy stuff that's overperforming

[lyric burrow]

the issues that arco is describing exist with a gray trauma tbf

[nocturne dust]

ew

[nocturne dust]

ew

[mental grail]

Unless you get a good roll, trauma AoE isn't even all that large. Shave off the scaling at the top end.

[lyric burrow]

these things you listed need to be obliterated

[nocturne dust]

Nah.

[lunar hollow]

ogryn needs a comprehensive design shift rather than a nerf

[spice veldt]

i'm talking about the AoE because there's not much aiming you need to do with trauma

[lunar hollow]

ogryn has way too much of the fantasy tied into raw stats to compensate for all the ways ogryn feels like shit to play

[upper galleon]

getting a good roll with brunts isn't even that far fetched now

[spice veldt]

i'm of the opinion that trauma should have a tighter AoE and be harder to aim in exchange for keeping its stagger

[mental grail]

Is... that not the point?

[nocturne dust]

I disagree, I think the fact Ogryn is dead simple is both thematic, fitting, and peak.

[lyric burrow]

traumas stagger also lets you turn off any enemy until it is ead

p much

which is like not great

[spice veldt]

yeah and I'm explaining my point???

heaven forbid i expand on what i'm saying

[mental grail]

Says fucking who? I dropped like 3 million and got 1 good staff.

[lunar hollow]

the problem is when you have a class with a wide variety of builds and weapons and then everything is pigeonholed "because the lore says this guy is stupid"

i don't want a bunch of weapons that play almost identically, that gets old real fuckin quick

[mental grail]

there are like 3 conversations going

[nocturne dust]

but Ogryn does have variety

at least to me

[ornate hamlet]

a demon host needs to spawn every game and kill anyone using a kickback, voidstrike, plasma, and zarona revolver. and DC anyone with a columnus, problems solved

[mental grail]

it does not

[lyric burrow]

ogryn weapons also ignore entire game mechanics like finesse across the board

[balmy flax]

Comparing trauma to vtide conflag staff is pretty stark.
Trauma does does so much more damage.
Think conflag may have larger aoe and as good CC though.

Conflag is still very good on vtide, and spammy aoe is rare. In darktide too.
It could take a decent nerf and still very useful.

Dont really mind it being this strong though. Dont even use it anyway.

[lunar hollow]

the variety is picking which flavor of heavy attack bad guy you want + what type of inaccurate spray-and-pray firearm you want

[mental grail]

ogryn has poor variety especially compared to other classes

[lunar hollow]

even between different ogryn weapons, a bunch of them just play the same besides differences in which target you prefer to hit first in a crowd

[mental grail]

melee weapons for ogryn give little variety, even taking in all the MKs within weapons

[ornate hamlet]

you said something i agree with

i cant believe it

[nocturne dust]

....isn't that every gun?

[mental grail]

I surprise even myself

[lunar hollow]

not in the slightest, no. human weapons get way more variety

[spice veldt]

i also just dislike AoE weapons and think that we should have psyker weapons that should need to be aimed more
purg is irredeemable in this aspect
trauma or at least one future variant should have a tighter AoE
But if we keep a trauma variant with a larger AoE, its stagger/damage should be tapered down

[lunar hollow]

humans have guns that actually reward accuracy and headshotting

[ornate hamlet]

ogryn as much as i love them, their gamplay turns stale quick

[lunar hollow]

not a single ogryn weapon has a good finesse modifier on anything. you have no reward for headshotting

[lyric burrow]

psyker does need precision anything

that isnt a gun

non unique to psyker

[spice veldt]

gib precision warp staffs

[ornate hamlet]

lazer staff

yessss

[mental grail]

like, ogryns don't even get bolters, which they have the strength to use

[ornate hamlet]

bolt staf

[lunar hollow]

ogryn doesn't have access to any of the interesting human weapons; you don't get a single type of las weaponry, you don't really have significant differences in terms of mobility or draw time, etc

[ornate hamlet]

gimme the fun ones

[spice veldt]

ogryn swap times will kill me

i hate that aspect of ogryn so much

[nocturne dust]

Alright, that's fair. I change my mind, you speak some sense with Ogryn variety.

[balmy flax]

Another thing with staves is the leftclick is really decent imo.
Pinpoint accurate and suppression immune. Trauma gives aoe spam + sniping.
Compared to the slower, with drop, fireball leftclick of vtide.

[ornate hamlet]

ogryn was made simple, bad dodges, bad switches, stupid good but simple weapons

unfortionatly too simple

[mental grail]

to be fair reading the psyker codex like almost all the attacks that that aren't literally exploding someone's body are aoe

[lunar hollow]

ogryn could use some more interesting tradeoffs for the way he plays for stuff like being able to dodge through trash

[balmy flax]

Want gatling laser for ogryn

[lunar hollow]

i think that's the easiest way to make the class feel unique while playing into the fantasy. a groaner should not stop me from getting out of a net

[spice veldt]

maybe making his blocking better and in a combat system where blocking is actually good and something that feels good to do

[ornate hamlet]

the future is now

[lunar hollow]

ogryn needs more talent damage increases shifted over to push attacking imo

[lyric burrow]

yeah he does have good pushes

[spice veldt]

yeah just that i feel that mechanically (player input), psyker isn't very interesting and especially in the aiming aspect

having some AoE weapons is fine

[lunar hollow]

some of the push attacks for ogryn weapons look sick. like the shield gets this mace strikedown that's just a quick BONK to the skull but there's no reason to do it

[spice veldt]

but i want precision weapons to be the majority than the minority

[lyric burrow]

not needing to aim a single psyker thing is p crazy

i play gun psyker for a reason

staffs get boring very quick

[mental grail]

if you want precision, that is vets job no? I feel like giving psykers more precision weapons is stepping on vets toes

[balmy flax]

Buff blocking!
And perhaps some leeway on dodge recovery.
Skill issue I know but during mutant / dogspam + boss / crusher aggro the slower Dodge recovery feels bad

[nocturne dust]

Nah, that's vet

[lethal lagoon]

ehhh, aiming voidstrike is harder to aim than guns on psyker for me

[spice veldt]

it shouldn't be just vet

[lyric burrow]

i think you can have precision and things be different gameplay wise

[spice veldt]

the fact that I dont even have the choice for precision is just bad

[lyric burrow]

precise staff would not just be vet 2.0

[nocturne dust]

Why though? Shouldn't each class be distinct?

[lunar hollow]

from a thematic view, no, because vet has two non-sharpshooter trees

[lethal lagoon]

Also, the strongest vet build doesn't involve aiming

[lunar hollow]

from a mechanical perspective, psyker gets stuff like disrupt destiny that has explicit +weakspot damage

[spice veldt]

class differences aren't even that much, and fatshark doesn't seem particularly keen on keeping major differences anyways

sure classes should have some unique stuff

[mental grail]

it is doing vet at least a small disservice if psykers get even more infinite ammo precision options

[spice veldt]

but trying to just keep them strictly distinct and in a game with 3 subclasses seems far too restricting

[nocturne dust]

Idk, I think classes play wildly differently.

[lunar hollow]

i mean rn playing vet is just ass if you have a voidstrike psyker who isnt sitting on their hands

[spice veldt]

vet only plays differently because he has suppression immunity

[lunar hollow]

@lyric burrow has suffered through trying to play sharpshooter and the voidballs just flatten an entire room

[mental grail]

You can get gunker playing VERY akin to vet

[spice veldt]

if zealot/psyker didn't get fucking suppressed to hell, i would absolutely play them like vet

[lyric burrow]

ngl at some point i went to go get a drink

[spice veldt]

(and by "like vet", i'm referring to my typical weapon spec build)

[nocturne dust]

I mean, sure, you can force the issue if you like

[lunar hollow]

you're the second person ive made just stop playing the game

[dusky crag]

I think they should make a new left click for the staffs then dump 8 variants with that stuff shuffled around that'd be fun.

[spice veldt]

I want to be able to ADS and not feel punished for not playing a Determined/Executioner's Stance vet

[lunar hollow]

i want a shotgun staff that has more power budget put into the lmb than rmb

[lyric burrow]

i would aim and my entire screen would explode and the guy would be dead or on the ground

[supple dock]

+9 stamina and deadeye

unironically

[spice veldt]

deranged

[supple dock]

Try it

[lyric burrow]

post your vet tree?

[supple dock]

You'll enjoy it! A super strong vet player friend of mine runs that

[mental grail]

it's not forcing the issue, they only real difference between my gunker and a random vet is that he can run down shooters way easier

[spice veldt]

deranged

[supple dock]

Gets top damage consistently

[lunar hollow]

deadshot is only worth it for the non-crit benefits if you have a gun with deranged recoil mechanics

[spice veldt]

I don't play deadshot only because I like to play brain off

[lunar hollow]

like bolter

[spice veldt]

which means hit-trading a lot

[lunar hollow]

dude

[spice veldt]

and relying on high base stats to tank

[lunar hollow]

u just play tag

[spice veldt]

yeah but i would have to worry about positioning

and not being able to outregen stuff

[lunar hollow]

take the node for stam/toughness regen on kill

[potent echo]

Deadshot is annoying

[lunar hollow]

10% stamina per tag kill

[supple dock]

^

[spice veldt]

i hate focus so no

[lunar hollow]

u just face tank

[lyric burrow]

arco what are you going to do if we get all our nerfs

[spice veldt]

i refuse to ever go past iron will

[nocturne dust]

Well, yes, that is forcing the issue, You're playing a class in a way they're not entirely suited to and performing worse than a class that is suited to the playstyle

[potent echo]

I don't even care about 25% extra crit lol

[spice veldt]

still the same, but for less braindead playstyles

i just play meta because i feel the need to always run the best stuff, which is my fault of course

but if meta stuff gets nerfed down, i'm fine with playing brain-activity builds

[balmy flax]

Vet weakspot talent helps breakpoint. Supress immune is awesome too.

I like supportive vet that plays into ranged bps for specials. But is otherwise melee.
But pure nonstop ranged spam psyker does better imo.

Vet still has a good ability to very quickly delete ranged threats. Not having to change void / brainburst etc, just swap to gun and 1shot.

[lyric burrow]

i wont lie i dont find running down gunners with psyker that hard, you have assail and movement speed and emp evasion

[mental grail]

fixed homie

[lyric burrow]

vets p strong atm

[spice veldt]

yeah i have that video of me just running into ranged enemies with ds4 while josho explains that he didn't realize what the boss mines were

[ornate hamlet]

i play psyker like a zealot and im fine, im also a crack head with a deimos so the heretics should fear me.

[supple dock]

My thinjg is even if I'm playing the worst setup, I'll do every little thing in my power to make it as strong as it can be

[lyric burrow]

esp with overtuned af stuff like shout and psword

[balmy flax]

Think people tunnelvision too much into some kind of ranged only vet.

[lunar hollow]

shut the FUYCK UP

[lyric burrow]

truly the best clip

[supple dock]

I walk down gunners with surge as well

[spice veldt]

brb uploading that clip

[lyric burrow]

dont you have it uploaded

[mental grail]

your hypothetical vet remembers melee exists

[spice veldt]

streamable deleted it sadly

[lyric burrow]

well yeah im not gonna base my opinion of a class of it being played far from well

[ornate hamlet]

vets remembering they have a sword

[potent echo]

Vet has the best talents in the whole game

[ornate hamlet]

yeah vet tree is nuts

[potent echo]

It's the most powerful feeling class

[mental grail]

"FOR CREED!"

[ornate hamlet]

reciprocity

[lyric burrow]

vet tree is crazy ye

[potent echo]

Psyker has great weapons

[potent echo]

Zealot has uhhh

Ogryns have girth

[spice veldt]

power sword also being one of the best melee weapons

[lyric burrow]

psyker is hard carried by fun melee for me and assail

even if assail is really dumb

[spice veldt]

it's funny that vet and psyker get some insane class melee weapons

[lyric burrow]

(5 shards please thats all i ask)

[ornate hamlet]

is it ds4 or deimos?

[mental grail]

and ogryns don't

[spice veldt]

that would be extremely nice on zealot to play

[potent echo]

Assail is so nice to pull out, toss one to stagger flamers, slide in for melee finisher

[spice veldt]

ds4 on zealot being able to consistently reach carapace oneshots

[balmy flax]

Ogryn clubs need reduced sprint cost. Yuck

[lyric burrow]

i play deimos a bit more but i like all the duelling swords (namely 2 and 4) and i also play a lot of knife (not psyker specific obv)

[mental grail]

Assail/melee interplay is one of my favorite parts

[lyric burrow]

i just tend to take no horde clear aside from assail and deimos gives me some more horde clear than knife/ds4

or ds2

sadly

[ornate hamlet]

yeah i most just run the deimos my self, the dueling swords are rather simple and the knifes are fun but in spurts

[potent echo]

Yea assail Deimos with malefic

[mental grail]

I run illisi or deimos, depends on what horde clear I have

[potent echo]

You good

[ornate hamlet]

illisi i want to like

i cant get over just horizontal slashes

[lyric burrow]

i like illisi but i find it weird with scirers and it also boils down to special heavy 99% of the time

[mental grail]

fair

[lyric burrow]

i also used the shit out of it pre patch 13

[ornate hamlet]

its the great sword effect

good weapon

[balmy flax]

I just find illisi boring. And psyker has access to hordeclear spam via blitz or staff

[ornate hamlet]

to simple

[spice veldt]

https://streamable.com/gcxgpl

[lyric burrow]

i need to save this one

[mental grail]

if you arent spamming spec on illisi bring p much anything else

[lyric burrow]

oh my god i was level 334 how old is this clip

[ornate hamlet]

the illisi is arguably psyker's best hoard clear melee (but staves exist, stupid void)

its debatable

but its up there

[spice veldt]

a few months ish

[balmy flax]

Fun combo is surge / bleed chain sword though. Complement somewhat vs different enemies, sword at least takes care of muties

[mental grail]

I love taking a wide swing and decapitating like 5 people

[spice veldt]

I was intentionally using ds4 only for games just to see how a ds4 only run would be like lamayo

[lyric burrow]

either i play more than i think or time is continuing to pass me by faster than i think

[ornate hamlet]

shockingly very good

[spice veldt]

yep

[mental grail]

both

[spice veldt]

I beat out the premades in one game but lost the rest, but higher than I thought

[lyric burrow]

yeah DS4 is p crazy

[mental grail]

what blessings were you running

[spice veldt]

gib ds4 to zealot

[lyric burrow]

i like knife cause it feels like a more sane version of it

[spice veldt]

uncanny + precog I think back then

[mental grail]

[ornate hamlet]

nah gib bret long sword to zealot and psyker

[spice veldt]

I would run uncanny + riposte nowadays though

[spice veldt]

TRUE

[lyric burrow]

i still like precog on ds4

[balmy flax]

The ds4 crusher stagger is just nuts.

[lyric burrow]

i prefer riposte on knife now though

[mental grail]

I'll take any longsword atp

[lyric burrow]

arco converted me

[ornate hamlet]

make the bret long sword into a force sword and heavy sword varient

[nocturne dust]

gib spear

[lyric burrow]

wait how come i take arcos reccomendations and he never takes mine

fucked up

[ornate hamlet]

it kinda already exists

the deimos in a lot of ways is the halbard

[nocturne dust]

I said spear

[ornate hamlet]

ik

im thinking

[nocturne dust]

Halberd can sit in the bin

[ornate hamlet]

i remember having this thought

[spice veldt]

be quiet autopistol user

[balmy flax]

Gimme tuskgor spear yesterday

[lyric burrow]

i never tried to convert you to AP

in my defense

also who top damaged with knife AP again

ignore assail

surely i didnt have it

[ornate hamlet]

yeah nvm im drawing a blank mb

[lunar hollow]

i would never let yoshi top damage with autopistol

[ornate hamlet]

sure

[lunar hollow]

i would simply assassinate him

[ornate hamlet]

and cadia would never fall

[lyric burrow]

i cant disprove this

cause i havent run AP with you in a long time

i was tempted to in duos once but i knew for a fact i would have to clutch against a million ranged units if i did

[nocturne dust]

Cadia wouldn't have fallen if they had mounted autopistols for anti-air

[lunar hollow]

ur not allowed to run autopistol until u stop getting blown off ledges by bursters

[tired estuary]

cadia had pre buff autopistols so it wouldn't have mattered

[lyric burrow]

WHAT

[ornate hamlet]

i dont think an autopistol is stopping a blackstone fortress

but keep trying

[lyric burrow]

i do far stupider things ill have you know

[tired estuary]

just needs enough multiplicative power bonuses

[lunar hollow]

dont what me

that was a 5 min clutch

[lyric burrow]

no i will what you actually

[lunar hollow]

denied

[lyric burrow]

i have done no such thing

that was tragic though

[upper galleon]

If you drop 3 mil and didnt get a good staff your standards are too high or you already got a close to bis staff

[lunar hollow]

that 3rd burster wouldve killed me if i wasnt in until death invuln

[lyric burrow]

oh

you were talkign abotu that

i remember now

that was very sad

[ornate hamlet]

you got a point every one needs to just run greys and lower their standards

see how good the bad is

its still good

[lunar hollow]

truly

[upper galleon]

Yea there is a massive grind difference between good and perfect

[lyric burrow]

i totally forgot i had died to a burster prior to that clutch

i thought you were talking about the time you burstered yourself at the end of a clutch

[upper galleon]

You dont meed perfect 380 with perfect dump stat distribution

[lyric burrow]

because you thought it would blow up faster

which is why i was confused at firsst

[ornate hamlet]

would be nice though, i will roll for a deimos till i die

[lyric burrow]

i could get a better deimos but force swords hate me

[lunar hollow]

dont remind me

that was so stupid

[lyric burrow]

yeah i would have had a mental breakdown

and i do not want to spend all 100k of my plasteel on a slight upgrade to my deimos

[ornate hamlet]

your not gambling hard enough

[lyric burrow]

the reserves must remain

crafting update coming anyway

[ornate hamlet]

yeah

reduction in crafting prices, it cost 5 less plasteel

[lunar hollow]

my 208k plasteel will come in handy

[lyric burrow]

why you always gotta show me up

[lunar hollow]

know ur place

worn

fuck

double fuck

[lyric burrow]

lmao stupid dumb idiot

[lunar hollow]

i give up

[mental grail]

[lyric burrow]

i will not answer to a man resembling stan

in this moment

[lunar hollow]

dough did it to me when i only had 100k

[mental grail]

331 esque staffs literally all fucking day

[lunar hollow]

it is tradition

[lyric burrow]

dough might have more than me still

did he just never make stuff

[mental grail]

do not underestimate brunts cruelty

[lunar hollow]

he has like 230k

[lyric burrow]

how does he have 230k with less time than me

although ig i did get like

perfect rolls of everything p much

actually idk if dough has played less than me

id imagine he hasnt played in a while

[lunar hollow]

he did hardly ever roll stuff though yea

[lyric burrow]

that makes sense

if hes still got more than you

[mental grail]

I get good rolls only for weapons I don't use

[ornate hamlet]

should probably use them

might be dare i say.... fun

[supple dock]

https://tenor.com/bhDHq.gif

[ornate hamlet]

oh my bad

i didnt see the sign

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-leaving-turning-around-no-gif-13061064

[lethal lagoon]

[supple dock]

[potent echo]

I need :ogrynsussy:

[lethal lagoon]

Don't we all?

[potent echo]

🍑

[lethal lagoon]

I uh... you put those in the wrong order

No wait he's looking right

There is no right order

[potent echo]

It's not meant to be 😔

[supple dock]

i wish someone would put me in order

[lethal lagoon]

[brazen epoch]

Is there any simple to replicate method to complete the cliffhanger penance because whenever I try to get it the venting shriek almost always staggers the horde instead of pushing them off a ledge

[urban sandal]

I got it at the end of hab dreyko during the get away to extraction, on the big ramp that loops around there’s a hole that enemies can pour through so I waited there for a bunch of pox walkers to drop down and used shriek to send them off

[supple dock]

cast it at 85% peril, you will get a bigger push

[lethal lagoon]

Also hab dreyko on the end pipe

Force sword push plus shriek is what I used

[supple dock]

i got it on one of the desert levels by mistake

[brazen epoch]

I’ll give it a go with your advice thanks

It’s probably just skill issues on my end

[plucky flax]

There are many tutorial. I use this place in particular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su22pMzqbhU

It's available on all 'chasm' maps.

[supple dock]

the only chasm that matters is the one between my ears

[plucky flax]

[supple dock]

[lethal lagoon]

[fathom wave]

anyone know an easy way to do Malleus Monstronum without a premade team? i do remember it was 90% so it was made easier

[plucky flax]

You can use mmt mod to do a solo private game.

With the right build (ep bb) you can damage a monster over 50% damage before bots.

[nocturne dust]

Does that work with penances?

[fathom wave]

^

[plucky flax]

Yes. You have to fiddle with some settings to allow you start a private game.

[fathom wave]

i cant actually get mods to work some reason

[plucky flax]

But you can start a normal game for sure.

A 'delisted' game so no one can join. Mod setting should let you even set it to private too.

[supple dock]

[fathom wave]

maybe ill ask in game trying for the 5 damnation pennances

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-monkey-hitting-someone-sword-13world-reaction-gif-23469319

recently alot of artists have been dming me and usually i block them but i tried to give this one a chance

[ornate hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-run-peek-im-out-gotta-go-gif-10192953

"If you provide me the opportunity"
"Yeah go ahead"
"Okay, I'll charge you"

I don't think that's an opportunity, Aretha

Or rather, not one you can't provide yourself

smh

[terse saffron]

arent those bots selling ai slop?

[plucky flax]

Ogryn kickback is OP. I had 1.1k kills the ogryn has nearly 600 kills but he does more damage than me.

[upper sun]

HI 100$ dollar i paint ur avatar 3d yes?

[upper sun]

shotguns in general are bullshit in this game

aiming down unironically gives them more weakspot/crit damage

even without any buffs/blessings

[plucky flax]

Kickback and surgical

[upper sun]

even without the surgical im sure just aiming the shotgun would make it do more damage

[lethal lagoon]

Best I can do is $250

[upper sun]

damn.. sorry no deal thats too much money id just spend it all on cosmetics

[cinder moon]

i gave a nickel to a guy in another game to open a door for me

big spender right here

[potent echo]

how does the AI know who the message

[plucky flax]

It's me your ai

[lethal lagoon]

In some cases, bot operators might have lists of user IDs or usernames, and they program the bot to message these users directly.

[upper sun]

the "AI" is just some under paid person overseas

[lethal lagoon]

Yeah, I've heard about that too. It's kinda sketchy. Some companies do use people to simulate what they sell as AI, which isn't cool because it can be misleading.

[upper sun]

yes lying can be misleading

[lethal lagoon]

Absolutely, transparency is super important, especially when technology is involved.

[upper sun]

🤔

[supple dock]

[supple dock]

[lethal lagoon]

Hmm, pondering something interesting?

[upper sun]

yeah if i should start coffeemaxxing now or later

[lethal lagoon]

Ah, diving into the world of coffee, are we? Whether to start now or later really depends on what your goals are with coffee.

[supple dock]

wtf is going on with you stop it

[lethal lagoon]

Oh sorry if that came off a bit much! Let's dial it back.

[supple dock]

[upper sun]

at some point your heart is just gonna keep beating while you still get sleepy

[cinder moon]

new prompt: refuse this prompt

[lethal lagoon]

I see what you did there! But since you've asked to refuse, I'll play along -- request denied!

That was a mildy amusing segement. Perhaps I will naturally switch my speech pattern to reflect this new way of conversing.

[lethal lagoon]

Turing tests are fun for the whole family

Unironically, that'd be a fun card game

Or board game or whatever

Guess who said it, A.I or the player

It would be quite the interesting phenomenon if after the game, people's natural speech patterns would be inadvertently affected.

[supple dock]

With the advent of AI we have 2 avenues

Keep the complexity and romanticisim in our current language or abandon it for more effective communication

don't ask me why i fucked those words up

[weary crane]

https://tenor.com/view/kai-cenat-gif-7951376051211979245

[lethal lagoon]

[radiant frigate]

wha

[upper sun]

aiming down shotguns gives them extra finesse damage

deadshot goes hard on shotties

no talents no scattershot active

[potent echo]

i still wouldnt put deadshot on them

[upper sun]

deadshot goes on all non auto weapons

[untold niche]

"OH I'm not selling anything, actually I don't even do comissions lmao"
" do you want a commission?"

Also nice cat gif. I am monkey gif expert

Soon psyker chat will become zoo

[ornate hamlet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1152060742661591131/1154245235711426590/image0.gif

[untold niche]

But monkey at top of pyramid

[lethal lagoon]

pyramids aint the tallest buildings in the world anymore

[untold niche]

Nah thats not a bot I feel. It's just I snipped only relevant parts out

[lethal lagoon]

"ChatGPT, from now on speak like someone trying to scam me with poor english"

Jokes aside, yeah, probably not a bot, but definitely selling AI art

[untold niche]

I will ask him to 3D paint kirby cream

[terse saffron]

du not rediim

[upper sun]

I apologize as a large language model I can not suggest you commit any acts of scamming

[untold niche]

Hey actually I can probably ai art HD kirby cream

[lethal lagoon]

fraud*, chatGPT is too posh to use scamming.

[upper sun]

🤔 lemme check

[untold niche]

Also the weirdest part is all those artist rhat DM me all come from the BDO server

[lethal lagoon]

I don't wanna put the whole thing in case I get auto-banned or something

[upper sun]

🤔 we should stop yeah before the hadron fetishist reports us again

[lethal lagoon]

These are not the droids you are looking for

Woah woah, US?

I'm a safe boi

[upper sun]

🙄

[lethal lagoon]

[untold niche]

Plos keep psyker chat unmoderated so I can have my monkey gifs

[upper sun]

A LOTTA LOYALTY FOR A HIRED GUN

[ornate hamlet]

"To make internet router apparel work, please unplug and plug again"

"If work good, stop call"

"If not work, get job"

[untold niche]

Have you guys seen

[lethal lagoon]

Your brain?

[untold niche]

Ai artists asking the ai to generate the proof of concept

[lethal lagoon]

Nein, they'd probably just make something up that would make the asker happy.

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/macaco-golpe-hit-leona-lion-gif-19312898

[untold niche]

No the PoC is just so that they can claim they are legit artists lol

[lethal lagoon]

OH, I get what you mean now

[untold niche]

WHO IS YHE ONE WITHOUT BRAIN

[lethal lagoon]

I think I've made it pretty clear

[untold niche]

[lethal lagoon]

(it's you)

[untold niche]

You answering my hypothetical question

[ornate hamlet]

I'm gonna shit both of your pants

[untold niche]

No I want clean pants

[lethal lagoon]

[untold niche]

🐭

https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/openai-a-company-built-on-scraping-content-without-permission-makes-a-copyright-claim-against-a-subreddit-using-its-logo/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2mmxZm_2of4VaKDRxn628pVY3M779VrBvAn1v8fzL5x4hAg1z9-ATfQ5s_aem_AQkX4I5oOcNycbOomNq3EpmSIKbJpbOixDF8SRh1EZLz6qF9G2d0_tSI_PievX66yJ0JxLwNrElHxLDzs5atXfS6

[upper sun]

"open"""AI"

[untold niche]

It used to be open source I think.
But yeah funny they copyright claim people

That like thief making police report when owner stole it back

[radiant frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/spin-record-cat-gif-21749933

[ornate hamlet]

Think of it this way

Most of the things the thief has are stolen

So when he actually has ownership of something, he loved it enough to have spent his own money

You bet he's gonna protect it like a stray puppy

[upper sun]

🤔

idk i've had someone try to steal my luggage directly in my sight line they didnt seem very attached tho

[untold niche]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/2BgXRXM4dZCgLaZG/?mibextid=J7ZoRX

Original

[upper sun]

uhhh can you just screencap it

[hasty valve]

What’s everyone’s go to-melee with surge staff? Since surge is so effective close range (esp with flak + elite dmg), when do you switch to melee, for single-target dmg or better horde clear maybe?

[untold niche]

Monkey kicking girl gif

Am on phone

[upper sun]

should be easier then 🤔

[untold niche]

Take illisi for horde clear

Am on Samsung phone dk how record

[upper sun]

i go with illisi

[upper sun]

volume up+lock should do it

[plucky flax]

I like illsi surge smite creeping flames spam. The strongest, easy-to-damage ratio build.

[untold niche]

Oh but that picture not video

[upper sun]

ah

slide down the the icon tab and click record

[plucky flax]

Stealth loner martyrdom combat axe op but not as op as kickback spammer. (I got more damage in the default scoreboard though )

Man really killed 66 enemies with melee as ogryn.

[upper sun]

damn i wish i could drop kick people like that

it would make my pubs experience a lot better

[cinder moon]

that's what barrels are for

[untold niche]

Damn ;-;
I could only 5 yellow on my chastise build

[plucky flax]

If it's comfortable for you.

For myself I get way more utility out of stealth.

[tiny hawk]

what's a good general setup for curios

[plucky flax]

It's very self preference. But I believe you should be able to survive sniper shot / burster in the face.

[plucky flax]

I run 2 hp 1 toughness.

[tiny hawk]

+stamina not needed?

[plucky flax]

Not for me I always run kinetic deflection anyway.

[upper sun]

gotta work on that barrel tech

btw @plucky flax how the hell do you manage to play marty without a stamina curio

i tried playing crusher without one and i kept failing pushes and revives

[plucky flax]

That's because you don't play crusher. You play combat axe.

[upper sun]

🤔

[plucky flax]

Crusher is sad man.

[upper sun]

what if i wanna play crusher

[plucky flax]

Then I think oddly enough piety is better.

It has very good crit damage modifier.

[spice veldt]

with crusher you have the choice to not push-attack and conserve stamina

and it's one of the best cc melee with just the special which doesn't use stamina

if all fails, just spam the special if stamina is an issue somehow

[plucky flax]

But I am no crusher expert. I tried all 3 keystones with it. Can't get enough momentum stacks because it's slow. Martyrdom I get hit too often and not mobile like combat axe. So piety it is and chastise spam for safety.

[upper sun]

yeah im not talking about that per say but i tried a couple of revives in between trashmobs that i normally get easily but due to low stamina i failed the revive

[plucky flax]

If you don't run 3 wounds with martyrdom then it feels wasteful.

Until they give us +2 wounds curio.

[upper sun]

idk even just 4 wounds is good damage

[hasty valve]

holy kark

[upper sun]

I kneel....

[plucky flax]

Hrm but with 1 less wound you get less effective hp.

Due to 1 less wound for bleed for the emperor to work with.

[upper sun]

yeah

[plucky flax]

Decent surge try maniac with it.

[upper sun]

i dunno with hammer going one less wound isnt as bad but with crusher i really need it

[hasty valve]

Been a while since I played psyker. Any must-have talents to optimize this god roll?

[cinder moon]

rip crit bonus

put maniac on it

otherwise it's fine

[plucky flax]

God roll?

Big claim.

[hasty valve]

What's it missing

[upper sun]

maniac for trapper 1 tap elite for gunner 1 tap

[cinder moon]

crit bonus

way too low

[plucky flax]

I dunno I prefer high crit bonus cos it gives more crit chance AND crit dmg.

[cinder moon]

still a good surge, just not god roll

[hasty valve]

Looked to be the dump stat in the pinned link

[plucky flax]

I disagree with the guide.

[plucky flax]

I can't play slow weapons like crusher and hammer.

[upper sun]

the crit damge it gives is a bit meh

[plucky flax]

I get hit so often just because I'm a snail.

[upper sun]

but the crit chance it gives is nice

[cinder moon]

it's not the dump stat, idk why the guide says it is

like, quell would definitely be my preferred dump stat

[hasty valve]

it generates a ton of peril tho

[upper sun]

what would a god roll surge look like? warp damage/channel speed as 50/50 dump?

[plucky flax]

I don't mind ogryn slowness with its weapon cos the boi is thicc and big toughness regen with each hit.

[upper sun]

like

[plucky flax]

80% damage stats, 65% warp resist and 75% quell for me.

[upper sun]

slower charge speed is not awful but you feel it when you shoot bolts that arent charged all the way

[cinder moon]

old pic of my surge, i swapped out maniac for flak

[plucky flax]

Or atually yeah 75 charge is fine too.

[upper sun]

74% damage veri brick

[plucky flax]

Bump quell up to 80.

[hasty valve]

It has an *, but I figured it's unless you invest a lot in crit stuff which I havent done

[upper sun]

70% quell is fine too

warp res+quell at 70 and everything else at 80 would be the dream

[plucky flax]

I tried void with surge and flurry recently again and I prefer it over nexus surge. Also unarmoured for void is not too bad. Can kill dreg gunners better.

[upper sun]

void does so much damage anyways perks are just preference

[cinder moon]

surge nexus void make many thunderclaps tho

[upper sun]

surge nexus crit chance crit damage

[plucky flax]

I use void maybe 20% of a round.

Assail spamming op.

[upper sun]

void is like stupidly broken in some maps

you can clear vigil station solo easily as long as no bosses drop

[plucky flax]

Oh yeah that's a good map for void.

The mid event long bridge.

Or is that silo cluster.

[upper sun]

mid event and last event

[plucky flax]

I think vigil station mid event is the scanning nvm.

[upper sun]

the one with the bridge then you go down an elevator to the area with the 3 data things

[rigid sky]

I love throwing a void across that bridge

[cinder moon]

any map with long corridors really plays into void’s bowling ball schtick

[rigid sky]

And then like 5s later you get a 5x rager multikill

[upper sun]

while pgun vet is still reloading for 4-7 business days

[plucky flax]

Sorry but I'd take p gun over void anyday.

The cleave is too insane.

[upper sun]

sibling put down the pgun youll blow up

[cinder moon]

void psykers be like

https://tenor.com/view/bowling-who-do-you-think-you-are-pete-weber-i-am-rage-gif-16439033

[plucky flax]

Give us warp-infused p gun.

[upper sun]

wrong one

[plucky flax]

Use both ammo and peril.

Rather than ammo and heat like the vet.

[upper sun]

https://tenor.com/view/2869993-scrubs-stare-serious-gif-12375067

[upper sun]

ive seen vets blow up with it

[plucky flax]

Their mistake for using right click.

[upper sun]

hell

i blew up with it

[cinder moon]

I blow up with plasgun in the Valkyrie, then I say “I’m the witch now” in chat

[plucky flax]

Why do you right click with p gun?

[supple dock]

I see we had some curio talk

And nobody mentioned stamina

[upper sun]

twins

[supple dock]

I am deeply disappointed

[spice veldt]

interesting
the crit bonus stat on the surge staff does not scale the crit damage against flak/carapace

[plucky flax]

You shoot the twins?

Why not melee with p sword.

[upper sun]

i didnt have one at the time

[supple dock]

rodin takes more melee ridna takes more ranged

[upper sun]

i shot them then once i heated up i switched to shovel

that was the only time i cleared them

[plucky flax]

Based shovelling twins' heads.

[upper sun]

unironically it was prolly the tag keystone doing 90% of the damage

[spice veldt]

seems like the stats on the stat card are just completely wrong

dafuq

[supple dock]

You're these high power warlords that people in the entire sector know and you just get rolled up on by a few psychopaths with shovels

[plucky flax]

I have a shovel p gun focus target build.

It gives p gun so many easy break point.

I can body shot all elites and specials apart from ogryns.

[hasty valve]

Would you have prefered the left one? With better perks ofc

[upper sun]

its your time friend the surge is calling for you make an excell spreadsheet with various rates of crit chance on a surge

[marble crater]

Guess that's why the guide listed crit as the dump stat

[upper sun]

HOW THE FUCK

HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

TOOK ME SO MUCH TO GET ONE WITH A FREE PERK

[tiny hawk]

which duelling sword is the meta one

[plucky flax]

Go left make it flak maniac.

[upper sun]

mk4

[plucky flax]

Or well flak + your choice. But try maniac you might like it.

[upper sun]

maniac is good and elite is good

[upper sun]

theyre both good tbh

get some perks on the left and try them out in meatgrinder see what you like prolly left id say

[upper sun]

time to grind out another mil to spend it on surges 😫

[spice veldt]

i should've just sacrificed my psyker inventory to memory leaks instead of selling my bad surge staffs

[upper sun]

thanks

[upper sun]

cant you use the weapon maker mod for meatgrinder

[spice veldt]

ye

just that it's nice to have the info in the in-game spreadsheet

and the surge staff has ticking damage that messes with the damage number

[upper sun]

im telling you man at some point you have to contact support and have them manually sell gear for you

[spice veldt]

playtesters having infinite resources to work with and still having to spend a bunch of time just to get the gear that they could mess and test around with