psyker-class

[vestal fulcrum]

It’s… complex (taken from #theorycrafting )

[upper sun]

people double and tripple tap that shit

[spice veldt]

i can also give people an ammo-efficient build that doesn't sacrifice much

e.g., v7 headhunter

[cinder moon]

people don't know that there are 4 charges per crate and that each charge FULLY replenishes ammo

[manic halo]

oh

[cinder moon]

they'll still magdump into trash and run out of ammo

[spice veldt]

yes but that is fully within the player's control

[manic halo]

Still no idea how that makes bullets do more crits then

lol

But thats cool!

[upper sun]

yeah thats 100% fatsharks fault it takes zero effort to add a number that shows charges

[manic halo]

thank u for showing me

[spice veldt]

that's not an uncontrollable or heavy RNG element that a player can't cope with and beforehand

[sacred crane]

What about psyker's assail?

[patent steeple]

its not just bullets, its also sword swings.

[spice veldt]

obviously if a player makes a fatal and very avoidable mistake like that, it is very much on them

[manic halo]

ye that too

[cinder moon]

you're missing the point that if those players are on psyker with force weapons, they're entirely self reliant and can literally never run out of ammo

[spice veldt]

and it is obviously observed when you've run out of ammo

[upper sun]

better yet add a voice line that talks shit to the player if they use a crate at very little missing ammo

[vestal fulcrum]

Huh, so there is some code responsible for it. Thanks for sharing

[spice veldt]

SURE and psyker is a good class for them

the fact that psyker is good for such players does not mean that being able to run out of ammo on classes is some crippling factor

if people want to 24/7 use their ranged weapon, then psyker is literally by design the class for them

that in itself does not make other classes bad

[vestal fulcrum]

I’m not sure how binding that info is, but I will try to take note of some of these values (and how to read them) and how they translate into the actual game

[spice veldt]

at least the materials match up but yeah i'm not sure for the other values since i can't exactly follow things well

[manic halo]

I feel like they just pulled the name Scriers gaze. Nothing about how we use it in game related to that...unless someone can tell me otherwise?

[cinder moon]

going back to what i originally said; if bad players can be elevated to a point where they're capable of outputting damage in spite of themselves, it makes the class overtuned

[spice veldt]

things can also spawn out of bounds so that mildly lowers the average spawns

[manic halo]

https://tenor.com/xzpj.gif

[spice veldt]

i do not consider a high skill floor that defining of a class's place in the meta

[sacred crane]

I think the high damage and crit chance is a result of the psyker reading the battlefield and enemies and able to make predictions on how to perfectly strike them, resulting in that high crit and damage

[cinder moon]

the only thing that stops psyker from being #1 overall is the ability to nuke your own head and the overall squishiness

[paper lily]

psyker is just not the strongest class

[spice veldt]

yes psyker's squishiness should absolutely be factored in

[sacred crane]

Just be a scrier psyker and never worry about peril

[spice veldt]

and there are other braindead builds on other classes

[paper lily]

i mean ogryn takes the cake on op as fuck builds

basically every tree is insane

[spice veldt]

e.g., on zealot, it is very unlikely for you to run out of ammo if you run a melee build

and safe melee builds are VERY plentiful on zealot

[paper lily]

zealot can literally take 0 dmg with enough cleave an invocation

[manic halo]

step one

Generate toughness when making peril

Step two

Cover yourself in peril

step 3?

[paper lily]

vet is fucking boring, fuck vet

[manic halo]

https://tenor.com/mMaKsH4tOor.gif

[spice veldt]

i have run games without picking up ammo on zealot even without vets

because zealot can also shit out grenades by just melee kills on elites

and gets to keep a stash of 12 kitchen knives in their back pocket at maximum

running out of ammo is also just not a legitimate concern because it is plentiful around

[paper lily]

the only reason i like to play psyker is cuz they have so many animation cancels

[rotund fable]

Psyker is the glass canon... that's it's role in the game... You are able to kill anything and everything on screen in a matter of seconds, but if you get caught lacking you die faster than a mutie who turns the corner to see 3 ogryns with rocks.

[spice veldt]

and i am going to pre-empt the "teammate stealing ammo argument" by saying that there are always sidepaths that you can explore and that such teammates are rare because it is rare that i ever encounter people who loot

[paper lily]

this is true

teammates screaming at me to put ammo crate down after i've literally waited in front of bags

[manic halo]

I like psyker because of the warp swords

[vestal fulcrum]

No idea, sorry, but I remembered somebody posting something about Scrier's Gaze being referenced in some kind of rules book, so there's that

[manic halo]

the SWISH

[sacred crane]

As a scrier psyker, higher peril is GOOD for you because of warp rider and one with the warp and your ability, the only time you should worry about it is with your blitz and then again, you dont use your blitz as much as your gun

[paper lily]

back to grinding vet penances

[cinder moon]

i explore sidepaths and ping ammo boxes/bags for teammates, there are still times when the randos are pushing too hard to explore enough without getting left behind

[paper lily]

ping all u want they aint picking that shit up

[spice veldt]

yeah and in such scenarios it is completely avoidable to not run out of ammo

[cinder moon]

presuming that you haven't had to clean up their mess

[rotund fable]

Randoms also find the stupidest ways to die...

[cinder moon]

games don't go perfectly

[spice veldt]

so?

you don't also have to perfectly pick up every bit of ammo

[cinder moon]

entirely beside the point

[plucky flax]

AM-O

[spice veldt]

then what do you mean by "games don't go perfectly"???

[cinder moon]

gee

[spice veldt]

yes because they made the decision to ignore the ammo

[cinder moon]

like i didn't have to waste a shit ton of ammo nuking the crushers/mixed horde whatever because the teammates lost their momentum on a pack they couldn't handle

[spice veldt]

also, if players were really that low on ammo s.t. they were running out, you know that they're slurping that shit up

[plucky flax]

I play regular mode and people still die.

[spice veldt]

like, my point is that the map spawns more than enough ammo and the maps have enough sidepaths s.t. any one person is able to pick up ammo

and such that it is within the player's control to not run out of ammo

[cinder moon]

i only play with pubs, the amount of times people do the weirdest and dumbest crap and make me have to pick up the slack, shoowee

[spice veldt]

motherfucker i also pub

[cinder moon]

sometimes you just run out of ammo bro

[spice veldt]

why do i keep getting the premade only reputation

[paper lily]

the only catch is for your average knife idiot who is just taking 1 ammo wasting 500 out of a bag before anyone can get to it

which is common

[lunar hollow]

sometimes my teammates run out of ammo

i don't

[cinder moon]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-15769006

[lunar hollow]

i simply use it better

and thus i take it

[paper lily]

premades are kinda boring ngl

[spice veldt]

i arguably pub more than i premade because i go invisible to intentionally avoid premades

and i have never ever felt ammo issues on vet/zealot

[pine shore]

Does surge even work on trauma staff?

[cinder moon]

tell me you don't run flamer without telling me

[vestal fulcrum]

Somewhat relatable

[spice veldt]

I do run flamer?

i'm a knife zealot main

of course I do sometimes

[cinder moon]

and you NEVER felt ammo pressure?

[plucky flax]

My last game on me as ogryn with 2 vets and an autopistol psyker.

[spice veldt]

no

because I don't use it willy nilly

and I always loot

[plucky flax]

2 guys were hardcore shooting everything (psyker included)

[patent wing]

15min solo auric on the smelter map with scab only modifier

[plucky flax]

Me hogging the ammo crate and never put it down.

[paper lily]

based

[patent wing]

until a mauler crushes me (he was invis)

[spice veldt]

ammo is just not an issue if you just loot and/or play conservatively

[plucky flax]

I am teaching them to melee.

[pine shore]

It's YOUR ammo crate, not their

[plucky flax]

Can't shoot if they have no ammo.

[spice veldt]

but since i'm the only person looting, I could've also just spammed flamer

[rotund fable]

I also primarily play pubs, and my solution to that is to tell people over mic "hey [player name here], theres ammo right here for you" and if they ignore me, then that's on them.

[paper lily]

don't lie, you want to watch them dodge by jumping

especially crusher overheads

[cinder moon]

this means you're not using it at most opportunities, opting instead for other things; that is pressure

[plucky flax]

Yeah I dunno who came up with this jumping meme to dodge stuff.

[spice veldt]

because I enjoy melee more

i could have absolutely just spammed my flamer

[plucky flax]

Like they push the burster then jump backward. As if that helps more than a regular dodge.

[spice veldt]

because it only takes single-digit ammo to wipe hordees

[paper lily]

they are very slightly further away, vertically

[cinder moon]

it's not black and white don't use/only spam

[rotund fable]

There are builds and situations where melee is more effective than mag-dumping...

[cinder moon]

i never said there weren't

[pine shore]

If they love shooting, they should really look into the "infinite" ammo lucius build

[spice veldt]

yes but I'm only going to discuss the extreme cases

because literally spamming 24/7 is the only way that I can conceive for a team to run out of ammo

[cinder moon]

[paper lily]

nah u can get the ammo griefers

they exist

[pine shore]

If you don't suck, you could probably go an entire mission without any ammo pickups

[paper lily]

person picked up ammo bag wasted 95% of ammo

[spice veldt]

i've never gotten them because no one on west coast loots

[cinder moon]

according to scrip, just loot more

[paper lily]

im in eu rn so ig different gaming culture

[rotund fable]

The one that abuses shocktrooper and surgical?

[spice veldt]

you really can just loot more

[pine shore]

I wouldn't say abuses

[spice veldt]

there are sidepaths that your teammates can't possibly loot before you do

[pine shore]

But yes

[rotund fable]

ok, "makes liberal use of"

[cinder moon]

which assumes you have the opportunity to not get left behind or aren't being mobbed because your karkhead teammates ran out of ammo 5 minutes ago and are still rushing and aggroing literally every room

[spice veldt]

and I've never seen griefers or to the extent that iI feel that my ammo is lacking

[plucky flax]

Guess who did the most damage (not the 3 guys with lots of ammo pickup)

[spice veldt]

i've never seen teammates give up the opportunity to kill elites/specials

[paper lily]

i don't think they

[spice veldt]

so the only enemies left are just trash mobs

[paper lily]

are actively griefing

i think they're just idiots

[plucky flax]

Those 3 were competing for who can use melee the least.

[spice veldt]

which are just not a threat or a barrier that prevent you from catching up

[cinder moon]

where did i say anything about just trash

[spice veldt]

i never said you did

I made that assertion

that is where it comes from

[cinder moon]

lol

[plucky flax]

Melee chaffs horde?
Shoot chaffs horde and waste ammo.

[pine shore]

Does surge work on trauma rmb?

[plucky flax]

No.

[patent wing]

no but this is a buff trauma could need

[spice veldt]

either way, you are not running out of ammo if you're doing just a reasonable amount of looting and/or you play conservatively varying on the solution

the reserve ammo that players have is a lot for most guns

[cinder moon]

keep ignoring the point by inventing irrelevant counterpoints my dude, it's all g

[spice veldt]

what's the point

and i don't consider my counterpoints irrelevant

[cinder moon]

right here

trash mobs had nothing to do with it

[spice veldt]

ah i misread it

i thought you meant they were rushing ahead and that looting was slowing you down from running ahead

i can't say i've ever been in a situation where all of my teammates have run out of ammo and that they were looting before I have

not on west coast

and i do not mean it as a hyperbole that I have never encountered such a situation

[cinder moon]

https://tenor.com/view/computer-works-for-me-meme-engineering-dvd-gif-27508941

[spice veldt]

it really does

is it so bad to speak only from experience?

[cinder moon]

when you discount the experience of others, absolutely

[spice veldt]

i've made it clear where my perspective comes from

[rich spindle]

that gif cuts off before it hits the corner

[spice veldt]

absolutely, because I always felt in strong control of my ammo economy

[rich spindle]

torture

[spice veldt]

i assert that you can make decisions before missions (weapon choice/build choice) and during (looting/ammo conservation) to not run out of ammo, and that such decisions do not require any particular sacrifices to make

and also melee is quite strong in this game

the choice of ranged vs melee also does not necessarily have to factor in ammo, because I can just use melee because it happens to be really good for the situation and even better than ranged sometimes

e.g., I can clear out part of a special wave as vet with just melee (w/o a high mobility melee weapon) in quite a lot of map sections, and that it's arguably safer sometimes

and if I'm zealot, I have access to a lot of tools that allow me to run with just melee
and on vet I can build for melee if I want to, while still not making many compromises for the ranged side of things

[cinder moon]

can't always pick the perfect loadout when you're just quickplaying and teammates often work against you as much as with you

[spice veldt]

you don't have to pick the "perfect" loadout

it just has to be good enough and you won't be running out of ammo

[cinder moon]

like you've never hot joined a mission with almost no ammo left, no grenade, and deep in the shit

[upper sun]

being the one guy with an autogun in lights out does feel good

[spice veldt]

guns with poor ammo economy are in the minority of weapons

[plucky flax]

I like playing purga in light out.

[upper sun]

i need to buy sunglasses to play purge again

[spice veldt]

i've not hot-joined many weapons and/or with very little remaining resources recently or at all

so I can't say

[plucky flax]

I play purga with max settings and bloom+lens flare on.

I don't need to see.

[upper sun]

you have a year of eyesight left enjoy it

[spice veldt]

at least on west coast I don't have this experience at all

[plucky flax]

Yes I am blind.

[potent echo]

level 34 zealot named amogus, bets on whether they will die in the first 5mins

[upper sun]

after first event

[potent echo]

knife too

[spice veldt]

i'm also not going to weigh in extreme scenarios very heavily in considering the place that a class stands in the meta

[cinder moon]

which is it

[spice veldt]

you know that I was talking about your "no ammo/only spam" statement

[potent echo]

im not even making this up

[spice veldt]

you can tell from context what I actually mean instead of going for "gotchas"

[cinder moon]

literally your next statement

hot joining with almost no ammo left and needing to clutch can easily result in no ammo

[spice veldt]

yeah?

just because I'm not going to weigh such scenarios heavily doesn't mean that i'm not going to talk about them

this is not the gotcha that you think it is

and this is just what the conversation has led to, primarily by you since these are the scenarios that you are conjuring to talk about running out of ammo

[cinder moon]

you are conjuring scenarios where you can "just loot"

[spice veldt]

but you can

[cinder moon]

both are possible, not always

simple as

[spice veldt]

scenarios where you can just loot are probablistically very likely

and i've already made the statement that I don't weigh rare extreme scenarios very heavily

[upper sun]

the psyker bubble on me fighting the airborn goop around me to decide if i kill heretics or die

[rotund fable]

This comment gave me a (potentially ridiculous and/or stupid) idea where the mouse 1 of all the staves could get reworked into mini-versions of the charged mouse 2 attacks.
Purgatus would remain as is, for obvious reasons.
Voidstrike could also probably remain largely as is, maybe getting a bit more cleave (like enough to go through 2 ragers).
Surge's mouse 1 could be turned into a small jolt of lighting that chains to nearby targets like it's m2, but without the overwhelming stun.
Trauma staff m1 could have it's aoe supression reduced in favor of gaining higher single-target stagger... not enough to knock a target to the ground, but maybe something on the level of disrupting a ragers attack combo.

[spice veldt]

the fact that three teammates are exploring every sidepath before you can get to it is just not likely
your three other teammates aren't going to search efficiently and may go for the same place
you may not even have three or two or one teammates looting at all
and ammo is just plain plentiful in this game
and you'll have to get three/two/one of your teammates to be assholes/idiots who hog up the ammo and don't know to ping/relent it to others
these are not experiences that I have experienced at all or to the extent that I remembered being low on ammo or running out of ammo

and I've also frequently run away from ammo that no one has picked up even when they were beginning to run out of ammo just because they couldn't be bothered to pick it up
It is also in my overwhelming experience that no one loots much or goes through sidepaths

and even if all three of my teammates are being dipshits, there are builds that I can run if I want to be absolutely ammo efficient on vet/zealot

[sacred crane]

"You should see the state of your weapon."
"I was planning on cleaning it, but then I realized I don't really care."

• Seer

[spice veldt]

maybe ogryn is different and that's where you coming from, but I do not see it on vet/zealot

[plucky flax]

AM-O

[upper sun]

AMMMU?!?!?!?!?

EVERY BULLET A PRAYER FOR VENGANCE

[paper lily]

if u are constantly running out of ammo and haven't finished the mission i recommend just getting better at aiming

[cinder moon]

rumbler ammo economy sucks, ripper ammo economy sucks, if your teammates are karkheads then stubber ammo economy can be problematic. if i'm playing vet i'm 99% playing helbore so i can just bayonet heretics and generate my own ammo, zealot i rarely use my flamer because boss focused flamers are ammo hungry in the first place

that said, i've hit 0 ammo maybe once or twice

[sacred crane]

get yo "one shot one kill" ass back to #veteran-class

[upper sun]

AMMO? WELL MAYBE THE EMPEROR DOES LOVE MEH

[untold niche]

Real gamer

[rotund fable]

I love how people either completely missed this because of the fight between Knite and Scrip, or are choosing to ignore it because they know it's a bad idea and are saving me the embarrasment of getting my ass roasted...

[spice veldt]

o i missed it

[untold niche]

Was it something super interesting

[cinder moon]

leave bolt attacks alone 😭

[spice veldt]

i'm in favor of kneecapping trauma's m2 to be a single-target stagger or something close to that

[untold niche]

Fuck I could have asked each side to explain their perspectives to learn more

Can someone give me a tldr

[rotund fable]

The idea was to re-work the m1 into a single-target stagger...

[upper sun]

ammo good ammo bad

[cinder moon]

just loot/looting not always possible and your teammates might be griefers

[untold niche]

Ammo as in currently how much ammo each run gives you?

[spice veldt]

i'd just make the m2 that and not the m1

[upper sun]

cant have shit in atoma

[spice veldt]

but such scenarios are rare that I am not going to be weighting it very much or at all in my evaluation of a class's place in the meta

i myself have not experienced it at all or to the extent that I remember it in my 2.7k hours

[cinder moon]

staff alt1 is already single target stagger

[upper sun]

yeah lets kneecap mobility and make every weapon single target

[sacred crane]

chat uh rate my full gunkur build

[upper sun]

lets remove the tide from darktide

[patent steeple]

ohhh no, is the argument going to start again?

[untold niche]

I only don't experience it because I'm the one causing the problems

[cinder moon]

no

[spice veldt]

unironically

[untold niche]

What's the context though? Psyker good because no reliance on ammo?

Or is it psyker too good

[cinder moon]

psyker is overtuned, complete self-reliance is a major contributing factor

[spice veldt]

trauma's explosion needs to either get target-capped like explosions in WWZ do or have its AoE severely reduced

[upper sun]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/540672739858483690/E5C71F4A502B087C0A7FEAAD1477442F364685BE/
this is what arc wants darktide to look like

[spice veldt]

and i argued that vet/zealot have self-reliance mechanisms as well as builds that don't use much average ammo

[upper sun]

only blocking and single target attacks with no mobility

[spice veldt]

and also that his argument hinged on ranged being overwhelmingly stronger than melee

[cinder moon]

ignoring that needing ammo isn't being self reliant but whatever

[upper sun]

ammo is only bought with a premium currency

[spice veldt]

i said they had self-reliant mechanisms (i.e. pertaining to your remarks about grenades)

[upper sun]

every reload costs .20 cent

[spice veldt]

not that they were completely self-reliant

and you're not making strong sacrifices to conserve ammo

[untold niche]

I think even if you required psyker to pick up ammo psker still busted as shit.
Though I think having to pick up ammo might disrupt gameplay. Though now with DD changes I don't think it's so much

[spice veldt]

like, I can absolutely see places where I could've played better with vet or zealot while conserving ammo while making minimal sacrifices and requiring minimal skill/changes

[cinder moon]

i had some matches before penance patch where gunkers were too ammo hungry, notably recon gunkers

[spice veldt]

sure

i've had some as well

[cinder moon]

also revolver gunkers

really just gunkers that were obviously vet mains

[patent steeple]

ok, this awfully sounds like the argument from before is this close to starting again imo

[untold niche]

That's a good idea to teach people how not to peril cream

[rotund fable]

My siblings in service of the Emperor, will you please LET THE ARGUMENT DIE ALREADY!!!

[untold niche]

Fak this is my bad

I'm sorry peepil

This isn't even a fun debate

[spice veldt]

the scenario that you get teammates who are ammo hungry, that you get enough who are looting, and enough that are assholes/idiots who don't relent ammo, is just very rare in my experience and in my mind for non-west coast areas

[untold niche]

I will retire and wait for a good opportunity for monkey gif

[spice veldt]

and the rarity matters in that I am not going to weigh scenarios like these very much or at all

[cinder moon]

yeah yeah

[spice veldt]

maybe something is different out of where i live and for classes I don't play (ogryn)

[upper sun]

just hot spawned into a mission with zero grenades btw

[cinder moon]

the worst

but wait, are you a psyker? then you're always out of grenades!

[spice veldt]

but I absolutely do not get this on vet/zealot on west coast on 9am PST - 5am PST

[upper sun]

i was a zealot 😭

my fault

[cinder moon]

just loot, fanatic

[upper sun]

i should have used my single target trauma staff to stagger one rager

[rotund fable]

Hold up... knite is complaining about when he plays ogryn...?

[untold niche]

The ogryn taking grenade loot for his 1x big boom as compared to my 3x fire and I die inside

[spice veldt]

you really can just loot

[cinder moon]

this isn't limited to just ogryn, but ogryn gets hit hardest with ammo problems

[untold niche]

They should buff grenade gauntlet

Ancient weapon

[cinder moon]

yes

[upper sun]

low quality recording+got my ass beat not posting this shit

[cinder moon]

more buffs for GG

i karking love GG

[spice veldt]

and i'm not saying that they never or don't happen

I'm just saying that they're rare

[cinder moon]

in your experience

now let's move on

[spice veldt]

mhm

[untold niche]

Wait where is West Coast arco

[lyric burrow]

Im becoming more and more anti infinite cleave

[untold niche]

What is West Coast

[spice veldt]

west coast america

[lyric burrow]

But reducing range would help

[spice veldt]

california basically

[untold niche]

Ohhh, the top side or bottom side

[spice veldt]

oh i guess the entire west coast of the americas is technically included

including canada and latin america probably

[untold niche]

Me Me no remember geography

[spice veldt]

basically including top and bottom of the left-side of the US

[untold niche]

Me Me only know Japan very kawaii

[cinder moon]

standard californian only thinking california exists

[spice veldt]

annhilate it

i failed my geography class

[bold cape]

“west”
“top or bottom?”
lmao

[untold niche]

Oi stop laughing at monki

https://tenor.com/view/angry-monkey-gif-15366668493184986500

[spice veldt]

part of the problem is the numbers and density are the main challenge

[cinder moon]

[spice veldt]

but trauma's AoE, purg's infinite cleave, etc. is pretty ridiculous even outside of that

[untold niche]

Monki gif

[lyric burrow]

It can maybe exist on purge if uncanny interaction are removed and flamer loses chastise

But even then

[spice veldt]

kill infinite cleave

[cinder moon]

no remove chastise on flamer

[spice veldt]

limit it in some way

[untold niche]

Arco I need some lracgical advice

[spice veldt]

make it... finite cleave

[cinder moon]

flamer already got gutted visually and then in performance

[spice veldt]

wat

flamer is still a very good weapon

[lyric burrow]

Flamer would be fine if it couldn't kill 300 elites in one mag

[cinder moon]

how many people do you ever see running flamer? i see maybe one a week, if that

[rotund fable]

I feel like you're problem is more a "You playing Ogryn with randoms" issue than an "Ammo consumption" issue.

If randoms see an Ogryn on their team, they are statistically more likely to play worse, on account of how most assume that you're both an Ogryn main and a member of the "can solo this whole mission" demographic.

[cinder moon]

99% of zealots are running some autogun, revolver, or bolter

[spice veldt]

doesn't make it a bad weapon just because people don't use it?

[rotund fable]

at least in my experience

[untold niche]

I play new build.
"OH no not good wnough"
Tinker build
Play more
"OH no build too good, too boring"

[lyric burrow]

Nothing should have the ability to kill shit like flamer can

[spice veldt]

and I'm not going to put much faith into people's evaluation of weapons

there are reasons for people to run certain weapons besides their strength

obviously it does play a role, but it's not the only factor

[lyric burrow]

We do not need to be able to kill 300 elites in one mag, elites and non trapper specialists are already struggling enough

[potent echo]

weapon needs to be fun

[spice veldt]

e.g., i barely see people running headhunters in my lobbies

[cinder moon]

that's beside the point, it holds true for any class that's using a weapon that isn't ammo efficient. i've had the experience when running gunker with stupid loadouts like recon 6d or autopistol

[rotund fable]

Me who mains agrip-shotgun on my vet purely because the sound of the slug breaking a bulwark shield is satisfying.

[spice veldt]

(well, the agri 9 is sad but I don't see the vraks 3/7 being run)

[lyric burrow]

Or non columnus iag despite the other 2 being comparable minus 4 bullet crit string

[spice veldt]

even on autopistol you can play around its stagger

and temporarily eliminate trappers/flamers as a threat and just melee them

[cinder moon]

i actually dislike most of the boolit weapons in darktide

[potent echo]

headhunter cant even kill maniacs because of the crappy adm

[spice veldt]

the maniac damage is sufficient

[potent echo]

doesnt even feel that good to use against flamers, ragers or mutatns

[spice veldt]

on vet with a weapon spec build, I can reach a trapper oneshot and flamer two-shot

[cinder moon]

helbore, plasma, and laspistol are the only puny guns i use with any regularity

[potent echo]

yea but a headhunter should be able to oneshot flamers no?

[spice veldt]

the one-shot requires more dedication (specialist + maniac), but the flamer only requires +specialist

[spice veldt]

sure y not

[lyric burrow]

I also manage fine with HH on psyker, suppression is more of an issue than maniac

[spice veldt]

but that doesn't make it bad

[untold niche]

Arco where advice ;-;

[spice veldt]

they still get two-shot

[untold niche]

I need wisdom

[potent echo]

it just feels bad to use because the shots dont even stagfer

[spice veldt]

and being two-shot is still in the realm of good

if you run marksman focus, you can one-shot flamers

[untold niche]

I need wisdom arco

[lyric burrow]

Tbf a HH staggering would be really obnoxious to use

[spice veldt]

i always run meta so i can't say

[lyric burrow]

Its partially why the 9 is weird

[upper sun]

give a man a fish itll feed him for a day

[spice veldt]

v7 is specifically good because it oneshots gunners and doesn't stagger them 🥲

[untold niche]

I need wisdom relative to my problem you clad

[upper sun]

🤔

[lyric burrow]

Theres already enough wackiness with guns that makes precision a pain without me staggering on my precision gun

Esp when bodyshot vs headshot is huge

[spice veldt]

e.g., a weapon spec build that two-shots flamers

[lyric burrow]

Yeah its why i just use the 7

Qol and good BPs

[spice veldt]

or if you want to one-shot (non-crit) flamers, a marksman focus build (marksman trivially reaches the crit BP if not running DA)

[lyric burrow]

Suggesting MF? Its over for you buddy

[spice veldt]

so sad

[lyric burrow]

Ngl this game is in a weird state where its pretty annoying to run something that isnt very strong unless you go out of your way and do like non BM caxe so you need separate horde clear or like taxe 4

[cinder moon]

just run helbore and get headshots, no keystones needed

[lyric burrow]

At which point you are bringing a build that probably feels bad

[cinder moon]

bayonet anything you don't have time to shoot

bayonet charge anything you want to stab but are too far away to do so

[plucky flax]

[bold cape]

im gonna hack fatshark servers and copy paste this into my inventory

[rotund fable]

My current gunker build looks something like this...
Is it the best gunker build? probably not.
Do i enjoy using it? Yes.

[bold cape]

having fun is the most important thing

[plucky flax]

I've had a few really good columbus but this one has the best stats distribution yet.

[cinder moon]

can't wait for crafting rework so i can brick this mk1 i've been sitting on

also, give helbore to psyker

[rotund fable]

Give psyker Shotguns so we can experience the meyham that is "Slug boosted by 15 stacks of DD"

[cinder moon]

imagine if the flame shotty proc'd soulblaze talents

[potent echo]

what soulblaze talents

[plucky flax]

My current columbus. It's an upgrade for stability.

[cinder moon]

wildfire

[potent echo]

[rotund fable]

My friend did the math... a slug, if given the boost from both warp rider at 30%+ peril, 15 DD stacks, and scryers, Will 1-tap a nurgle blessed crusher on a headshot.

[cinder moon]

[upper sun]

dumdum 3 and flak 3 bricked 😦

[plucky flax]

Yeah let me delete.

Sry.

[vernal temple]

literally unusable

[upper sun]

that .5% damage is the difference between needing 7 bullets and 7.2 bullets to kill smthn veri brick pls delet

[plucky flax]

It's not 380 it must be bad.

[upper sun]

only a 380? i have a 390 colum and its almost usable

[cinder moon]

pssh

[rotund fable]

On my ogryn i have a shovel that's got 69% on each stat. The thing is ridiculously fun to use.

[cinder moon]

look at these pieces of garbage

[rotund fable]

This gun was nice... until hadron got her mitts on it.

[patent wing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWpUMUO5NQQ&t=11s

[mental grail]

The only staffs I like using are surge and void

i like directly killing the enemy

[supple sedge]

a like flame

[mental grail]

not tossing them about or holding rmb for 12 seconds

[plucky flax]

Based 69er.

[supple sedge]

but i preffer lectric hands

[upper sun]

ok two losses in a row its time to touch grass

[patent wing]

@plucky flax How improve

c the vid

[plucky flax]

I dunno probably more situational awareness.

[rotund fable]

This seems to be the case with most people... Trauma is a bit janky to aim (though once you figure it out, it's stupidly effective when you have a choke-point), and a lot of people don't realize how effective Purgatus mouse 1 is, and try playing it like the other staves.

[patent wing]

mebbe also better map knowledge where to kite etc?

[junior dirge]

holy shit, just played with the bubble shield and its so good

life saver

[supple sedge]

yes like it lots, can shoot heretic without gettin shot

[potent echo]

when next patchie

[plucky flax]

Next year.

[upper sun]

~6 months

[untold niche]

Idk if discord sent my message:

I feel how this game could be balanced is instead of a5mael being just more enemies. Have every single thing be a more empowered green, but like less enemies. So you don't get to stack on kill buffs as much.

I feel that the power crept is also because alot of buffs / "effects" ( e.g. PC) are on kill, and at higher difficulties funnily enough tye game just throws more stuff at you

So sorry, I went off track. To reply directly,

I think you right, it feels sucky because if you can't deal with a single thing you don't just suffer for a bit you actually die

It's not as if you would take a longer time to kill a single rager or whatever, its more like you just die outright due to not being able to solo 3x rager.

[lyric burrow]

Yeah the game would benefit from less numbers and more dangerous individual threats

Esp cause a lot of talents interact with density in a really deranged way

As funny as it is to kill 15 shotgunners in 2 seconds its not exactly difficult

[untold niche]

When I watched you, I think it's somewhat different from the other solo runs I seen. You don't seem keen on looping circles around part of the map. So I think you are right here.

I see the way you play somewhat close to normal DT gameplay. Solos really require you to abuse melee through wall and 90* walls due to chargers and dogs ( and also just less chip damage )

[untold niche]

Yeah.
I think the game is scaled really oddly just like you mentioned.

[untold niche]

Either kill everything or dir

[mental grail]

Exactly my reasoning too

[untold niche]

I think it's due to how much hp/ damage we received

[lyric burrow]

I think FS just wasnt aware of how much DPS people can shit out, 8 bombers is a threat but bombers generally die before they can get particularly threatening cause everything destroys them, carapace isnt even a real armor type anymore, we have constant access to ults

Etc

[untold niche]

It's not like other game where good player = 80% hp left. Bad player = 20% hp left

[untold niche]

This not the only factor. Player effective health values is certainly a thing they overlooked.

Maybe overlooked too harsh.

But point is there.

[upper sun]

🤔 then why did my teams wipe every game i tried to play today

[lyric burrow]

Yeah DR and general toughness regen is p dumb

[patent wing]

Good points

[upper sun]

people with the fucking 1 million kills icon

[mental grail]

Very fair analysis

[untold niche]

Bro they are hadron employees, need to scrub floor

[untold niche]

Only if you know how to build.
If you don't know how to build zealot it feels worse than psyker

[untold niche]

Advice is go watch some solos where they win. You will see very clearly what I'm talking about here.

But that's why I can't be assed to play solo. I don't want to kite the whole day

[patent wing]

u have some videos?

[untold niche]

The kiting isn't even fun

[lyric burrow]

I dont mind DR/TDR and toughness regen cause it is important but stuff like second wind/ogryn/iron will and psykers toughness regen are probably a little too strong (i actually want psyker to get some more TDR options and lose some toughness gen cause we have so much)

[untold niche]

No sorry. What I remember I think was a solo run by one of the ogryn mains but I'm not entirely sure. I watched it when I just joined the discord.

I know wilmer, clad runs solos. You could ofc also try asking ogryn chat. I believe it's okri that run solos. For zealot chat I'm not so sure who runs solos.

[untold niche]

See, if on vet I don't know about iron will and the 33% tdr, just VOC alone its not that insane

[patent wing]

ive seen agentchaos doing some psyker solo runs but also only 10minutes

[lyric burrow]

I think most zealot solo peeps are knifers

[untold niche]

I understand that the ogryn one is a different class but the fundamentals still apply. And I remember that okri beat solo some hard difficulty using gun ogryn.

[patent wing]

and against dogs the 90* wall stuff helps but muties have world class abs/esp and drift around corners

[untold niche]

Muties grab behind them. What I seen was you stand at 45 degree angle and dodge to left for safety. You want 45 degree to see incoming threats still.

You really have to throw off normal DT mindset

[lyric burrow]

Could never get into solos

Duos are great

But solos i didnt find as fun

[untold niche]

Almost half the game is thrown away running solos lol

Trapper is instant death, objective maps pretty much don't exist

[lyric burrow]

Yeah it was a gameplay style that didnt interest me too much

Duos you can still play DT you just have real pressure and get unique situations to 4 mans

And way less room for error

Rare you can get picked up

[untold niche]

Run stealth expx

[patent wing]

solo ultimate skill

[untold niche]

I don't really agree

[manic halo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1228392023342579773/1235958575738654762/ezgif-4-b7bc768342.gif?ex=663d83df&is=663c325f&hm=32f7de74f4de08cfe1e50109a52ff2a53036e92dcb6013e1b753a90febc64dca&

[untold niche]

Again your mindset is so different solo looks like a more jank version of killing floor

Actually if you genuinely enjoy solo gameplay just go play kf2 solo

[mental grail]

Also, unless bring assail, purg makes you fucking useless beyond pissing range

playing gunker just makes me hate that staff

I like being able to see a guy shooting at me and shoot him back

[patent wing]

brainburst

[untold niche]

That's why some people run ep BB purg right

[patent wing]

purge best horde clear tool

[untold niche]

And by some its just me guessing

[mental grail]

insufficient

BB with purg is cope for cara

Bulwarks and crushers etc

in histg trying to tag shooters with BB is tedious

better to just point-click annihilate them with void/ciag

with trauma you can knock the whole group on their ass

purg just seems too limitimg for the horde clear it gets you, because other staffs can do it competently and aren't dogshit at range

[lyric burrow]

Purge does get the uncanny interaction at least and your generally taking deimos/ds4 with it

Although thatll probably go at some point

[mental grail]

Oops

[half iron]

purg has infinite range if you just get closer to them

[mental grail]

double posted

[patent wing]

just mark before bb

[lyric burrow]

I dont think purge is bad however horde clear is like really w/e

Honestly

[patent wing]

ciag against cara sux too

[lyric burrow]

Everything does it

[mental grail]

DS4/Deimos

[lyric burrow]

Not to the point purge does but its honestly overkill a lot of the time

[patent wing]

then bulwark gang comes

[lyric burrow]

Deimos is p good vs bulwarks

[mental grail]

not too bad tbh

[lyric burrow]

Knocks them over

[mental grail]

^

[lyric burrow]

And h2 is also very good damage

[patent wing]

nah it just opens them and still stunlocks you

[lyric burrow]

Ds4 does fine too

No deimos Knocks them over

You have to headshot them

[patent wing]

nope it oppens them

[mental grail]

force push into gun = ez

[jovial juniper]

Force push?

[patent wing]

yeah but im talking into the shield

[lyric burrow]

But it will full dumpster them just like crushers

[patent wing]

thats the clue

[mental grail]

the shove for deimos

[patent wing]

i dont wanna wait until they open up

[mental grail]

force push

[patent wing]

way to dangerous if there are tó many of em

[lyric burrow]

You can also h2 around the shield now

[mental grail]

^

[patent wing]

yeah still not good if many

[mental grail]

I'm not having as much trouble with bulwarks post patch

[lyric burrow]

Yeah i can't say ive ever had issue with bulwarks using deimos

[mental grail]

since you can attack them from more angles it's much less difficult

[lyric burrow]

Huge dodge to get around shield too

[hearty oak]

Hard to do if 2 or 3 of them are gagglefucking the hallway or area. And each one's shield blocks for the other one.

[paper lily]

use ur spells

[paper lily]

ur dodging way too much vs bulwarks there

[mental grail]

to be fair, that is like 10+ bulwarks

[hearty oak]

emperor protect if they brought shards

[patent wing]

sad

[lyric burrow]

I think its fair to want to maintain space if they need to be able to easily relocate upon something else showing up

[mental grail]

that counts as more than a gagglefuck

[lyric burrow]

Do need to make sure they can swing tho

[paper lily]

thing is u wanna actually bait them to swing, since it naturally opens them up

if u blow all ur dodges then they just keep running at u

[mental grail]

With deimos that is what I do

[paper lily]

the only tricky attack is the bash

[lyric burrow]

Bash doesn't do much at least

[mental grail]

bait swing > force push > ciag/special

[paper lily]

it can kinda lock u in place

[mental grail]

repeat

[patent wing]

what still fucks me up sometimes is the 180* overhead if you dodge a ms to early

[paper lily]

wdym with crusher?

[patent wing]

ye

[paper lily]

just gotta watch em

they only have 2 overheads anyway

[patent wing]

like you are behind them and the overhead goes in front of them until they 180 flip in the last ms

[paper lily]

ehhh they usually telegraph it pretty good

u might wanna be aware of ur teammate doing overhead drags tho

[lyric burrow]

They do have that one faster overhead

But has a different looking animation

[paper lily]

the one that hardcore tracks they really swing it back

[lyric burrow]

So still fine to react to and the dodge timing is p lenient

With no toughness the quick swipe can fuck you up tho

[spice veldt]

i have been rumbled by two crushers doing sideswipes at the same time

[lyric burrow]

Also am i crazy or did they give crushers a new move where they hit you with the handle or something

Its really quick and i swear i dont remember it in 1500 hours

Similar to the bulwark bash type move

[untold niche]

always has been
the elbow

[lyric burrow]

Maybe i just never got it for some reason then

[paper lily]

yeah it does a fuckton of damage

[spice veldt]

if it's the one i'm thinking of then it's been there

[paper lily]

they do it more when they're grouped

[untold niche]

half toughness*

i complained about it before iirc

i was surprised no one else did

[mental grail]

yeah this will fuck me up

[lyric burrow]

Ok ig i just never baited it then

[paper lily]

against crushers u gotta blow a fuckton of dodges

the moment u see them move at all

[spice veldt]

maybe it comes out more often if you're closer

[paper lily]

and then watch if it's not one of their faster attacks

[spice veldt]

i usually get owned because i get complacent and forget that crushers will hide crushers behind them

[lyric burrow]

Yeah me playing knife recently might be why

[spice veldt]

or i try not to drag overheads into my teammates and stay in one spot too much

[paper lily]

ime crushers tend to do the elbow after a stun in melee range

[untold niche]

you also get a feel for when they are going to elbow you

just play melee only on a zealot

[lyric burrow]

This is actually the most threatening thing about them

[untold niche]

without crusher weapon

[mental grail]

I was going to say, bulwarks give me way less trouble than crushers, because only the shield bash surprises me really

[lyric burrow]

Random hidden overhead

[paper lily]

ngl i never fear crushers it's the 5 maulers behind them cuz they move forward a shitton when they overhead

and you ACTUALLY can't see those

[untold niche]

bulwark give me more trouble
the dinks really fuck me up
i can't even kill zombies because of the dinks

[spice veldt]

top 10 reasons why i play zealot

[mental grail]

more like random hidden crusher the game forgot to give sound

[lyric burrow]

Yet another reason why we should have less density 🙂

[spice veldt]

10 crushers coming up

OwO

[mental grail]

the what???

[untold niche]

basically while i was spam pinging josho asking for his takedown vids on like 6 crushers
I realized thats the reason you can't move forward when fighting crushers, you have to wait for them to come to you and then give space

[untold niche]

weapon clang against their shield, stops your attack.

[mental grail]

oh lmao

[untold niche]

dink is just the sound, like clang is.

also csgo player so

[lyric burrow]

Ye once they reach you they generally swing

[mental grail]

[lyric burrow]

They kinda do random stuff when you run into them

[spice veldt]

bulwarks taking 10 years to do a god damn swing

[untold niche]

the elbow like someone mentioned above is more likely when you are kissing them

[spice veldt]

i'm WAITING

[untold niche]

i played so much melee scab past two days im more confident against 6 crushers than like 3 bulwarks mixed horde lmao

@lyric burrow play at 20 fps
forces you to open third eye

sometimes i don't even know if the side crusher is going to OH me

its all by feel

[mental grail]

This is average for purg right?

[vestal fulcrum]

Burn is not 76 sadly, but more-or less, yeah

[lyric burrow]

I will not thanks

[mental grail]

just wanted to know who to blame, the staff or myself

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/обезьяна-monkey-обезьянасчерепом-обезьянаичереп-gif-23995795

[upper sun]

its ok once you get a better one you can use it to get flurry 4

[untold niche]

i think at some point of general skill you can pretty much always blame the build.

[upper sun]

for purge you need high cloud and burn at or above 76 but above doesnt effect it

damage is useless and only effects the lmb love tap

[mental grail]

[upper sun]

difference between 40 and 70 is like 60 damage?

veri dumpy

[untold niche]

emmesh did you change your dp recently or you never play psyker last time
past few days im trying to think who are you

all i can think of is you are probably the guy that only play psyker once in a while

[spice veldt]

they had a darker profile before iirc

[untold niche]

side profile of a guy right?

[spice veldt]

now they seem to be that one character from dungeon meshi

[mental grail]

Yes

[untold niche]

with like a cap

[mental grail]

mithrun

[untold niche]

yeah i remember that guy didn't seem to play psyker alot and would randomly come in to ask very specific build questions

[lyric burrow]

You already know what im gonna say arco

Ignore i dont know what either of those things are

[spice veldt]

what

[untold niche]

wat u going say dough :v

[spice veldt]

i'm not a weeb

[lunar hollow]

you're a goose

[lyric burrow]

Arco what do we say everytime one of us is wrong

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/mono-gif-17493618708942987308

[spice veldt]

what you u mean

i'm right
mithrun is the name of the character

[mental grail]

how many ordo dockets did it take for brunt to give you a good one?

[spice veldt]

stupid!!!

[lyric burrow]

Good job

[lunar hollow]

this reminds me of an absolutely abominable mittins dm

[spice veldt]

show the class

[lunar hollow]

No

[spice veldt]

yes

[lyric burrow]

I do not like where this is going

[paper lily]

did it work

[spice veldt]

no, unfortunately

[lunar hollow]

i hate this image so much

[spice veldt]

he still lives

[spice veldt]

my god

[untold niche]

i need to learn from mittins.

[spice veldt]

we don't need mittins the 2nd

[untold niche]

the image really sold waht he said.

i don't have that kind of lateral thinking

[lunar hollow]

i cannot wait to drop him into a vat of acid

[hollow current]

context, lore master?

[untold niche]

i think mittins would enjoy the kirby cream

shame he wasn't here.

[spice veldt]

mittins is a bad person

[untold niche]

he seems like a very good person.

[spice veldt]

very bad person

[lyric burrow]

Mittins is nice to me 🙂

Think its a you problem arco

[upper sun]

i only roll stuff i find in brunts normal store now ive spent like 3mil on staves and swords and only gotten like 3 good ones

[untold niche]

can't be that bad after that image josho posted.

[hollow current]

A vet who would take the stealth talent before the patch 13 rework?

[lyric burrow]

Mankar is also nice to me? Im noticing a pattern

[lunar hollow]

he supports slavery

[untold niche]

what is yankee

i know its some "citizenship" of some kind

[upper sun]

an american person from the north

nah its just slang it started form the civil war era

[untold niche]

i see.

[paper lily]

outside of the usa i don't even think it's north inclusive tbh

[upper sun]

IM A YANKEE DOODLE DAAANDY

[untold niche]

clad

stop

[lunar hollow]

if someone from another country refers to someone as "yankee" they just mean american in general yeah

[untold niche]

resist the zealot chat

i don't want psykler chat to become zealot chat 2.0

this my safe haven

[upper sun]

its too late

[untold niche]

this where monkey gifs thrive

[upper sun]

it was always too late

[mental grail]

I've had europeans call me yankee and I'm from the south lol

[spice veldt]

wouldn't doubt it from him

[untold niche]

and stan image posts don't live

no pls

[spice veldt]

in fact, mittins is a vet main

[hollow current]

what happened to zealot chat?

[spice veldt]

so the possibility is nonzero

[upper sun]

we spent like 2 hours yesterday talking about food and liftting

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-kinkytwt-stan-twitter-stan-twitter-memes-monkey-angry-gif-25266657

[upper sun]

pysker chat is just slower zealot chat

[hollow current]

Only thing I’ve heard is that it’s very brotherly

[upper sun]

its people talking about other games and shitting on one persons dietary habits

[hollow current]

oh

[untold niche]

i don't mind the random discussion, i just don't like the random off rail into 30 minutes 3 person DMs

[upper sun]

oh shit someone on my team has the carry frame

[untold niche]

what carry frame

[upper sun]

theyre either really good or really bad

[untold niche]

500 hab dreyko?

[upper sun]

the default frame

[lunar hollow]

none of the frames are carry frames

the value has been lost

[upper sun]

lets wait and see

[hollow current]

Is it no longer hilariously flamboyant? I hadn’t checked since like early Feb.

[untold niche]

the one you think looks the nicest is the best frame

also ngl the more i see hab dreyko 500 the more i think it looks ugly

[lyric burrow]

I see how it is

[formal hill]

Carry frame?

[marble crater]

@formal hill

[untold niche]

i think he meant (as a concept) the frame people use to signify they are a "carry"
i.e. running the default clothes you start off with

[buoyant maple]

is orthus champion insignia still worth smth at least

[marble crater]

Either awesome because they don't need cosmetics to prove how good they are, or they are just new and clueless

[untold niche]

i see like 200+ running default clothes, i assume to prove this point
And yet they kinda suck

[formal hill]

So basically the ASS title, they're either really bad or really good

[untold niche]

holy shit path is here too.
psyker chat is lit today

[hollow current]

I like choosing stuff that makes my character look cool.

[lunar hollow]

at this point it means u were there for the event at lesst idk if ppl even play it anymore

[untold niche]

everyone has ass
i didn't mean that as a low hanging joke.

[buoyant maple]

I finished most of my guide overhaul

[hollow current]

Man I’ll be playing so much dress up when I get back.

[spice veldt]

i have the malice border and one of the early insignias on my knife zealot but otherwise i stick to what looks nice

[formal hill]

I run the Orthus Special difficulty insignia, never see anyone else with it, but those who know, know

[untold niche]

ping me when you upload it into vet
or is the one you sent me "live" ?

[buoyant maple]

it's non-live tracking but it tracks yes

[untold niche]

ngl i only ego run the krak twin hardmode

[buoyant maple]

yea that's orthus champion

[untold niche]

how to get orthus champion?

what is orthus

[formal hill]

It let's me know who's situationally aware tbh

[untold niche]

should i get it for the ego flex

[lunar hollow]

i carried some less-than-stellar (arcotash) players through twins hard mode so i helped contribute to the dilution

[buoyant maple]

beat karnak twins in damnation with secret hard mode active

[lyric burrow]

I don't use that one anymore tbh

[untold niche]

isn't that jsut hard mode karnak twin

[buoyant maple]

yea

[formal hill]

After I got it I never took it off

[buoyant maple]

still means more than auric storm survivor

if anything auric exemplar means more than auric storm survivor lol

[formal hill]

ASS meant more early patch

[untold niche]

both means jack shit when you can cheese by quitting

also in my region fucking half the pop is running ass

[hearty oak]

Surviving more than 5 auric missions with random should be a challenge in on itself

[buoyant maple]

hence the only one that sorta means anything is orthus champion

[hollow current]

I always used the zealot insignia on my psyker to indicate the lunacy. Also it kinda looks like a speed insignia.

[buoyant maple]

lore accurate gameplay

[formal hill]

Do we even know how many have Orthus Champion? It's not many

[untold niche]

not that hard, i got it last week
not that hard as in: eventually you get lucky

[buoyant maple]

I don't see many people use it

[formal hill]

Well not many compared to playerbase as a whole

[untold niche]

im under the impression that all the regulars here have hard mode karnak twin

[formal hill]

You NA? You'll see me wear it if we get in game together

[hollow current]

Which one is orthus champion

[untold niche]

the bells

bells with whistles

[buoyant maple]

yea because everybody in here sorta farmed for it the moment it went live

[formal hill]

I still hear the bells man

[buoyant maple]

yea I'm in NA

[untold niche]

like everyone LFG?

[buoyant maple]

everybody that regularly chats in class chats I think

[hearty oak]

I did it with my team but trying to survive more than 3 with random without having to turbo carry without a meta build isn't fun to do all the time. It's especially discouraging when the same team is full of shitters that don't belong in aurics

[hollow current]

Also is there a penance spreadsheet

[formal hill]

It was an avengers level threat first time I tried to tbh

[buoyant maple]

yea getting jumped by 8 maulers spawning a door behind u in a gas stage is a rather unique experience

[untold niche]

idk what extend turbo carry would be.
Like clutching from only yourself being alive?

Im not that good to attempt to do that, i rather just die and requeue

But yeah thats why i say its just luck for me, luck that your teammates aren't complete trash

[formal hill]

The conga line of shotgunners shooting you in the back through the smoke while you dealt with them was fun too

[untold niche]

why do it without a meta build

[plucky flax]

Bruh 1 point off not having shit dodges.

[untold niche]

i don't mean any offense but thats like saying game is hard because i don't want easy

[untold niche]

is that universal? 51% mobil for dodge, or evisc specific

[formal hill]

Rhonda going sicko mode while being shot in the forehead by a plasma, good times

[buoyant maple]

51% is general

[plucky flax]

For most weapons. Some weapons have 5 dodges regardless of mobility.

[hollow current]

Save it for the crafting update that’ll happen at the end of the games life.

[untold niche]

i see.

[plucky flax]

Like knife.

[buoyant maple]

knife is much more lenient with mobility tho

[untold niche]

i didn't know that, thanks for the factiod

[buoyant maple]

yea

[hearty oak]

Cause sometimes I want to try using a tactical axe or use a different blessing to see how it does. Sometimes the change isn't drastic but having a weapon you aren't used to or know it's not good for HISTGs, it can be rough

[plucky flax]

Yes can't wait for it in 10 years.

[formal hill]

Maybe in 20 we'll fight a new faction with new mechanics that isn't bomber spam

[untold niche]

i gave up getting ass because i know with my plastyle i can't get ass
i.e. playing really stupid on zealot

then i went martyr caxe and like 2-3 days later getting used to it suddenly i get the penance

sometimes i know i would die but i just want to try

i.e. fighting 12 gunners with the most horrible positioning

[formal hill]

You can always get ass if you just don't die

[hearty oak]

Hanger room on the hourglass

[plucky flax]

I played 5 games and the complete 3 missions without anyone dying contract didn't progress once.

[untold niche]

it isn't fun to purposely not die on DT

due to playstyle and it also makes random deaths more tilting

[formal hill]

I don't really know if I agree with that sentiment

[untold niche]

i mean of course thats for me.

[formal hill]

I find the most fun on Auric is carrying after all thr ASS farmers went down and left

Pretty rad

[untold niche]

the random stomp from boss now you across the map weeeeeeee

[buoyant maple]

u can also just shop for ez maelstroms lol

vent purge scab mostly ranged

[untold niche]

there is ranged only?

[formal hill]

Well I didn't because obviously I'm a big tough strong man who don't need no easy maelstroms

[formal hill]

Definitely the easiest for Ogryn to deal with

All that cover to hid behind

[untold niche]

wats hourglass

[spice veldt]

desert maps

[formal hill]

It's a way to track time

[untold niche]

ohhhh

wait huh

fuck you throd hahaha

make me confused

[patent wing]

maybe we can get a desert map where we can ride sth like idk sand worms maybe

[untold niche]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-monkey-hitting-someone-sword-13world-reaction-gif-23469319

[formal hill]

I can't help that I'm a shit poster at heart

[untold niche]

i thought only one dessert map

[formal hill]

2

[untold niche]

the one there is a middle intersection thingy
then afterward where i always solo the battery runs

the whole team fucking stand in the middle and bubbled while i ran for all three batteries

[spice veldt]

relay station (satellite finale), refinery delta (poison injector finale), and excise vault (put capsules into vacuum thingies in a circular arena of sorts)

[untold niche]

oh i must be referencing excise vault

so whats hangar room

that nights refer to

[spice veldt]

one of the giant box-like tilesets

[untold niche]

im not that angry because i always make it but uh,
idk its so stupid...

its like they are in their own world

[hearty oak]

Bigass hanger rooms that like to have many gunners and ranged enemies in all corners of the room

[spice veldt]

prob referring to the one in excise vault

[vestal fulcrum]

But we explode doughnut canisters through hyperbaric pressure in Refinery Delta, not poison any samples

[untold niche]

is the one with trains?

[buoyant maple]

Hourglass doesn’t have trains

[hearty oak]

Desert map.

[spice veldt]

guh

[untold niche]

i can't think of hangar room in dessert map

[cinder moon]

I WANNA RIDE THE TRAIN

[paper lily]

imagine the bully ogryn voicelines

[untold niche]

someone give screenshot

[cinder moon]

there did used to be an interaction between one of the ogryns and a psyker about riding the train, but I haven’t heard it since launch era

[mental grail]

I have

[hearty oak]

I love the bully ogryn.

[untold niche]

WAIT @spice veldt

IS IT THE

[mental grail]

bully ogryn and loner psyker male

[untold niche]

IS IT THE AREA AFTER YOU GO UP FROM ELE

THEN YOU EXIT

[spice veldt]

ye

[jovial juniper]

Heard rumors of the Assault modifier, but not exactly what it does

[untold niche]

oh fuck thats the hangar room?

[untold niche]

@hearty oak this is where you drop down from the platform

theres a medicae on the right

[spice veldt]

this is the one i'm thinking of https://youtu.be/OAfibN9B6pw?t=1444

[hearty oak]

That and the one from when you hack the servitor colony

There's two hangers after that

[untold niche]

yeah the platform i drew should be outside here

[hearty oak]

this is how you know you played too much darktide. You just know yhe maps by heart

[untold niche]

yellow is medicae, blue is elevator
green marks "outside"

[cinder moon]

I love that spot

[formal hill]

I don't know maps or anything, I just kill things

[untold niche]

i honestly believe they should give better names to the maps.
I don't care how lore friendly they are, not many people can remember the fucking name of the maps

[cinder moon]

fr

[formal hill]

Don't talk shit on HL-17-86

Hab Dreyko iirc

[untold niche]

either its an easy time because the players know its important to move up close to the spawn door in that narrow hallway or get fucked as whole steam stand close to elevator and enemy swarms us

also i never realized how intuitive that was until i typed it out

i never really consciously thought about that.

[cinder moon]

great spot for smiting

[spice veldt]

ah i think that's refinery delta yeah

[untold niche]

i swear one map is going to be named wingardium leviosa

tell me that doesn't sound like something hadron would say

https://tenor.com/view/its-leviosa-wingardium-gif-12617201

levio, sarRRRR

[formal hill]

Ong I wish there was a position in game dev that's a professional idea haver, I have a million gorillian ideas on things that would be fun but no desire to code

[patent wing]

i love loading time loops

triple a game

[untold niche]

thats called games design(er)
But first you have to code.

[patent wing]

has to quit game to be able to play again

[untold niche]

also games rely more on execution than on ideas

me me feel you haven't play enough game if you no realize that

not that playing alot of games is good

[paper lily]

there are many people in high places that are 'idea havers' and they're almost all universally shit from my experience

hirez is a company with such a person at the helm

[formal hill]

I can throw out an idea right now, as an end game event in darktide instead of pushing a button, someone should have to man the Skyfire defenses manually to shoot down enough ships for Masozi to come get you. While the team has to protect the gunner and 4 different power cells in the arena while the gunner shoots (4 so it ensures there is some down time)

[untold niche]

then the "shooting down enopugh ships" part feel unfun as fuck

idea gone.

[formal hill]

Make it feel good

[untold niche]

or players complain whole map hinges on one player.

[untold niche]

thats my point
the idea isn't that important compared to the execution

[mental grail]

Image repping your hood and your hood is Habzone HL-19-24

tragic, really

[formal hill]

Like I said, this was a spitballed idea, not something planned, you can definitely work out what would be fun, not just off the cuff

[formal hill]

"Jealous Runt?"

[jovial juniper]

"Nineteen twenty fo, yo"

[paper lily]

u have to work within the confines of time and what you already have

does dt have a turret manning system? that's gonna be built in brand new

probably 5 years by fatshark time

[untold niche]

mr lightbringer, me me no smart enough to maybe get him to somewhat understand / realize my point.
maybe you can explain better

[formal hill]

There's a shooting system, won't be that new

[paper lily]

you would be very very surprised

shooting at ships, even flying units, that will be brand new as well

[untold niche]

how many ships will there be, how much HP does the ship have
turret relaod mechanics?
maximum turrent turning speed?
what is the fail point for not shooting down enough ships
How will ships spawn, how will ships even move
Ship movespeed? varaible to difficulty?

[formal hill]

Look, I'm saying in essence that I feel the events are a bit uninspired, compare the events to things like chivalry 2, that has REALLY good and fun objectives, will it take longer? Of course, but it would add ALOT to the game if the objectives felt rewarding, not just the core gameplay

That's what I'm saying

[buoyant maple]

I have an idea

Sefoni mentions someone setting up a shop in the deep hives
Give us a random NPC merchant encounter in missions (set location, random spawn)
You can trade in resources for consumables at his shop, like trading in diamantine for plasteel, ammo for stimms, etc

[paper lily]

development time is expensive, i'm sure tehre's a way to work in interesting gameplay without adding in new subsystems

[spice veldt]

more rush gauntlet events would be nice

instead of the holdouts that we have

[upper sun]

fatshark rpg when?????

[paper lily]

rush gauntlet is like what type of event

the samples one?

[buoyant maple]

Archivum sycorax first event

[spice veldt]

just running through an area like archivum

archivum is a boring tileset but the idea is there

[hearty oak]

I pitched the idea of having timed missions but people don't like that

[untold niche]

everyone can have cool ideas, not everyone can implement them in a fun way.

[spice veldt]

more l4d2 stuff

[paper lily]

i actually quite like the tileset

but tbh that event needs changed as well

too easy for speedrunning ppl

[mental rock]

I like the mid event of, I think it's the riser mission? Where you have to run through the rooms with closing doors

[formal hill]

It was an off the cuff idea, hypothetical, that fun and interesting events can be thrown out quick, this wasn't a formal application to add that as a map, you know what I mean right

[spice veldt]

i don't like it mainly cuz it's just repeating the same three areas

[lyric burrow]

thats sycorax

[spice veldt]

changing ascension riser's finale to a more interesting finale would be nice

[formal hill]

Boss should spawn when final doors open

[spice veldt]

same goes for magistrati's finale which seems like it could be improved with some verticality

or whatever seems cool for it

(and doesn't take much time to change)

[upper sun]

assassination missions are the bread and butter of resource grinding pls dont change them

[hearty oak]

There should be a final boss for almost every map

[spice veldt]

they'll still be super linear maps so picking up mats will be easy for both chasm and magistrati assassinations

[upper sun]

hell yeah

[formal hill]

I think the maps are okay as is, but definitely going forward need penache, it feels a bit repetitive and linear in every map

[upper sun]

just a straight corridor to the boss with 1k plasteel on the way

[formal hill]

50k

[buoyant maple]

Maybe they can cook smth up in carnival 3rd map

[upper sun]

100k

[formal hill]

Hopefully the fight with wolfer will be good, because their best map and bossfight that felt most Original was Karnak twin fight

[hearty oak]

I suspect that when we fight wolfer, it's just gonna be a boss gauntlet till we fight a more suped up scab captain boss

[buoyant maple]

4 homeless crackheads shank him to death in 20s

[formal hill]

He should just be in command of a Leman Rus battletank

Ezpz

[upper sun]

hell yeah tanktide

FATSHARK WoT colab when?

[formal hill]

Maybe they can finally add the Melta that's in the files then

[hearty oak]

Honestly, enough reason to include a melta gun for one level.

[upper sun]

took what? a year for tox bomber?

i wouldnt get your hopes up

[formal hill]

Oh buddy you have no clue how low my hopes are bucko

[upper sun]

hell yeah