psyker-class

[blissful mural]

i mean, half of all the icons center around a skull

[tender terrace]

my question was, because that wasn't always the case some blessings worked on other weapons

[spice veldt]

that was patched out a while ago

[past bear]

Never intentionally

[tender terrace]

neither of those things are relevant to what i said

lol

[blissful mural]

its further confusing that some specifically state that theyre only active when in hand

[fierce sinew]

what is relevant is that behavior was patched out a long time ago

[tender terrace]

yes, that was cleared up when you answered my question

[fierce sinew]

you should definitely not pay any mind to what fatshark tooltips say

but you probably already know that

[shadow wigeon]

Does trauma rending affect assassination bosses?

[south zephyr]

gift from Big E, might actually keep it around, stick it on a shelf somewhere

[fresh steeple]

I would use the Deimos perk huehuehue

[fresh steeple]

yes

or at least, it should. There was a time when it didn't affect Monstrosities

but that was several months ago

but maybe I'm a big doofus, so I'm gonna go try to research that

[south zephyr]

what should I replace?

[fierce sinew]

I'd put more health in place of the regen or gunner resist if it were me

[south zephyr]

was thinking about swapping out ability regen with toughness regen

[fierce sinew]

if you're using a staff quietude makes toughness regen very irrelevant imo

if gunpsyker maybe

[south zephyr]

am gunpsyker

[fresh steeple]

okay, I can say with reasonably high confidence that it does affect bosses

but that the effect is still minimal

I tested in Psykanium

Unyieldings and Maniacs do take more damage after being hit by Trauma

[fierce sinew]

the practical effect on specifically the scab captain is going to be minimal because of the shield

you're going to be hitting cap regardless

[fresh steeple]

in the case of Unyieldings the damage boost is minimal since they're basically unarmored, but there is a difference in damage

[spice veldt]

depends on the weapon and attack

my personal question is whether it gets applied to the void shield

[fierce sinew]

beat me to it

[spice veldt]

fastest in the west

[fierce sinew]

I'm trying to think of a commonly used weapon that isn't capping the shield but would with brittleness

like, if it worked

(not sure if it does)

[fresh steeple]

following up a bit more on this because it sent me into a rabbit hole of Psykanium testing

for things I thought were true but can now confirm

1. Unyielding mobs receive approximately a 6% damage increase if hit by +8 Brittleness

2. The captain's shield appears to have no appreciable increase in damage taken after being "rended", though that may be because of 1 and the fact that it's very difficult to determine damage increases on Monstrosities without damage numbers

and most importantly 3. The Rending effect is applied to all targets who are even grazed by the explosion. So if a Crusher is way outside of the Epicenter but close enough to technically be hit by the wider blast (which is a pretty large circle at 80 BR), it will receive the full +8 Rending

[ornate hamlet]

Combat ability regen is dog water

[fresh steeple]

essentially a complete blind man could randomly spam Trauma in the general vicinity of Ogryn packs and still apply full Rending

[shadow wigeon]

Ok that's good to know. I hadn't tested rending effect range yet.

[fresh steeple]

obviously it's better to actually hit them with the epicenter so you stagger them, of course, but if you don't have that luxury you're still going to be alright

[restive slate]

Rending applies to Captain Shield?

[fresh steeple]

at max BR the effect of Shockwave is approximately 300% wider than the visual epicenter effect

[fresh steeple]

inconclusive

[lethal folio]

Rending applies to every armour type, including players.

[fresh steeple]

it does apply to the boss itself, albeit marginally

I know this, but two months ago there was a bug where Brittleness did not apply to the class of Monstrosities even if they were wearing armor in the case of the Captain

which is why I went to test

[restive slate]

So if Rending plasmagunner shoots an Ogryn pal, they're debuffed?

[fresh steeple]

and it appears 1. that it works, yet is very difficult to discern, and 2. it still affects unarmored unyielding targets like the back of a Bulwark

[lethal folio]

You still can't shoot allies because there is no ff multiplier

But it makes barrels deadly.

[fresh steeple]

Shattering Impact will work, yes

[lethal folio]

Rending can go above 100%.

[restive slate]

It feels like our VT2 heroes are better at grabbing ledges compared to our Operatives

[fresh steeple]

it's the same effect as Shockwave, just half as strong

[restive slate]

Wow so we can sabotage our teammates more, nice

[lethal folio]

That is a different scenario.

If you have over 100% rending, you reverse the negative damage multiplier

You said it won't go above 100%, which is false.

Again, no.

Why do you think there are blessings that give over 100% rending?

[fresh steeple]

here's a question for you: do Unarmored targets receive full 100% damage from melee attacks?

[lethal folio]

Not all of them.

[fresh steeple]

from a Deimos stab attack

light attack, that is

[spice veldt]

yes from a deimos light

[lethal folio]

If you have 150% rending, an attack with 70% armour mod will do 115% damage.

[fresh steeple]

I'd rather if 0 answered it directly

because I have to know if 0 agrees with this premise that a Deimos light does 100% damage to an unarmored target

[lethal folio]

(It does)

[fresh steeple]

my point is that, as I understand it, Unarmored provides no damage reduction

and a Light attack from Deimos will do 100% damage ot it

and I just went and tested Rending Shockwave on an unarmored target, and it took extra damage after being hit by shockwave

so yes, shockwave can make an attack deal more than "100%"

Strike Team 2

[lethal folio]

I hope you haven't equipped warp unleashed.

[fresh steeple]

I do not

nor brain bursts

[spice veldt]

I don't observe unarmoured enemies taking extra damage from a deimos light if they are debuffed with brittleness

[fresh steeple]

I thought I was below 20. But yes, if I was above, that could be the cause

[spice veldt]

https://streamable.com/8ybz6q

[fresh steeple]

let me switch swords

[spice veldt]

169 damage on both with a t4 rending shockwave on the trauma

[fresh steeple]

because I actually may have gotten power from the sword

I thought I attacked below 20% peril

okee dokee I'm wrong

it was my peril

let me see if it changes calcs on Unyielding

it wasn't a headshot, it was a crit

maybe it went rhough the body, idk

[spice veldt]

fucking psykers doing +10% elite damage and making me having to do a bit more math

[fresh steeple]

Okee dokee, I rescind this, because it was definitely Unstable Power and me not waiting long enough to go below 20%

Unyielding takes true 100% damage like Unarmored does. Infested and Maniac take extra damage after being rended

which means that it shouldn't apply to non-Captain Monstrosities, but it should still apply to the Captain beacuse he has armor

[lethal folio]

Again, you can do more than 100% damage with high rending.

[fresh steeple]

I now disagree

[spice veldt]

you can

[fresh steeple]

I went and tested it

well, maybe if we're talking REnding versus Brittleness

[lethal folio]

You don't even know what you are testing.

[spice veldt]

rending and brittleness stack additively right?

[fresh steeple]

but Brittleness does not take something past 100%

[lethal folio]

Rending and brittleness are the same thing.

[fresh steeple]

I thought it did, but that was Unstable Power screwing up the test

[spice veldt]

ye, just wasn't sure if the effects had some weird math around them

[fresh steeple]

then you're wrong. I very conclusively sat there and tested +8 Brittleness against both unarmored and unyielding targets, and it did not increase damage from melee attacks

[spice veldt]

anyways, here's a video of >100% rending/brittleness increasing my damage past 100% https://streamable.com/j10q81

[fresh steeple]

I thought the same thing 15 minutes ago, and I was wrong

[lethal folio]

Because the difference between 100% and 100% is 0

So rending does nothing to that damage.

[spice veldt]

my force sword has 402 weakspot on l1 (aka 442 on crushers because of the +10% elite)

[fresh steeple]

I... don't know what you mean to demonstrate there?

Crushers have armor

of course Rending will increase damage done to them

[spice veldt]

the first crusher takes 442 damage at max t4 uncanny stacks (100% rending)

the second crusher takes 574 damage at max t4 uncanny stacks and t4 rending shockwave with a fully charged trauma (140% rending)

[fresh steeple]

isn't 100% rending just a shitty way of saying "maximum amount of +rending allowed by this weapon"?

[lethal folio]

No

[fresh steeple]

I have no qualm with the concept that internal Rending and Brittleness stack

so I'll clarify what I think is a semantic problem in this conversation

[lethal folio]

Brittleness is rending.

It is the rending debuff.

[fresh steeple]

when you said 100% rending, what I took you to mean was "rending to teh point that you do 100% of damage, as though the target is unarmored"

what you appear to be arguing is "Rending at 100% plus Brittleness can continue to increase damage further"

if that is your argument, I have no disagreement with it

[lethal folio]

There is no rending + brittleness.

It is all rending.

[fresh steeple]

Tyr, please stop being hung up on semantics here. I'm trying to clear them up and you're being obstinate

Brittleness is "Rending as a debuff"

Rending is "Rending as a buff"

it's still Rending

I'm making a distinction because you can get to 100% personal Rending buff and then have additional Rending debuffs to the enemy

[lethal folio]

There is no difference between adding brittleness to rending, and having rending.

What is there to figure out?

[fresh steeple]

Arco literally just recorded a video showing this is wrong

[lunar hollow]

i believe the over 100% rending effect can also by achieved with a t4 uncanny strike knife with rending backstab

[lethal folio]

Or you just use decapitator and get over 100% with one b.essing.

[spice veldt]

ah damn forgot about rending backstab

[fresh steeple]

I always took "100% Rending" to be a personal buff that increases damage to the maximum allowable extent provided by the game, but not the same thing as "removes all armor"

Arco's video shows it's the first one, because additional sources of debuff rending can increase damage on the most heavily armored target

[lethal folio]

You are overcomplicating the behaviour.

That something is having 140% rending instead of 100%

[fresh steeple]

100% rending is some sort of personal buff that gives you the maximum allowable amount of bleedthrough damage on armor from a single source, but additional sources of Brittleness add onto it

[lethal folio]

There is no 'maximum allowable' bullshit.

[lunar hollow]

rending isnt capped at 100%

[lethal folio]

You are making that up.

[lunar hollow]

i think brittleness has a cap at 40%

[spice veldt]

the math checks out

[lethal folio]

Why can you not accept the simple explanation that rending can go above 100%?

[spice veldt]

the 168 (base damage of the l1) and 42 (damage dealt to carapace by l1) just being the damage values that I'm reading off of my force sword

[fresh steeple]

why are you such a thoroughly unpleasant person that you cant realize I'm AGREEING that it goes "Above 100%" and explaining it in a manner that makes sense to a third party?

Rending gives "100%". 100% is not actually 100%, or it would be 100%. It's 100% of that buff. Brittleness can go beyond that.

[lethal folio]

Because I don't believe you understand. Because you are inventing bullshit like allowable bleedthrough.

[fresh steeple]

if Rending removed all armor, Brittleness could not add more damage to it

Rending at 100% gives you some value of armor penetration that can be added to by Brittleness

the obvious explanation, 0, is that 100% is not actually 100%

[fresh steeple]

not in terms of "100% being unarmored"

[karmic delta]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-michael-jackson-gif-11786299

[fresh steeple]

if a mob takes 80% reduced damage, Rending 100% theoretically takes it down to 40% reduced damage or some other random number for the sake of the example

Brittleness can then take it down to 30%

Rending 100% is not actually "does damage as though the target is unarmored"

[spice veldt]

yeah it's not exactly armour removal. It seems to be based on a table of percentage modifiers dealt by an attack to a particular armour type

'Unarmoured' is considered an armour type

the Surge staff, for example, deals <100% damage to Unarmoured

[lethal folio]

if a mob takes 80% reduced damage, Rending 100% theoretically takes it down to 40% reduced damage or some other random number for the sake of the example
see shit like this is why I don't think you understand.

[fresh steeple]

it's not adding damage to a target, or else Unarmored could be affected by Rending, which it cannot and I have corrected my previous thought that it could

[lethal folio]

Where the hell did you invent that from.

[spice veldt]

Unarmoured tends to be the armour type against which most attacks will deal >100% damage towards

but there does exist attacks which indeed do <100% damage to it and thus can benefit from rending

[fresh steeple]

shit like this is why I think you're an absolute cocksneeze and thoroughly unable to understand that maybe other people reading this chat might appreciate analogies. I am now blocking you. Goodbye.

[spice veldt]

I don't think I can swap from my trauma staff to the surge staff quickly enough to demonstrate it though

oh wait

axes apply brittleness

[fresh steeple]

so do boltguns!

XD

[spice veldt]

yeah, I was just remarking on how I could debuff an unarmoured target with brittleness to demonstrate them taking more damage

[lethal folio]

Just get decapitator

[terse saffron]

100% rending on armored enemies should just be doing base damage?

[fresh steeple]

or it's just that 100% rending doesn't actually make the target take 100% true damage

it matches with observed testing up there

100% rending takes Ogryn damage from X to Y, and then extra Brittleness takes it to Y', with Z being "true damage"

[spice veldt]

just to be a bit careful with the wording; if an attack deals <100% damage to an enemy, 100% rending will make that attack deal 100% of its base damage to the target

[cyan notch]

what is a cocksneeze

[fresh steeple]

discarded semen

[lethal folio]

As I told you they would.

[fresh steeple]

or, again, we just have to accept that 100% rending isn't the same as "applies true damage"

[spice veldt]

here's the stat screen of the deimos I tested with

[fresh steeple]

which would be far from the first time that Fatshark wrote some language that isn't the same thing as what it intuitively reads as

see, e.g., Unstable Power

"up to 5% power" apparently actually means "25% power"

[spice veldt]

20% power

[fresh steeple]

I swore it was 25% at 97%+ peril

[spice veldt]

you only get the stacks at 20/40/60/80% thresholds, and it's 5% per stack

[fresh steeple]

well, 20% operating off that premise

either way, it's language that clearly doesn't describe the actual effect

so if 100% rending actually just means something like "100% more damage than usual" instead of "does damage as though the target has no armor," then additional rending from Brittleness is an unsurprising interaction

[fresh steeple]

I think I'm thinking of Warp Nexus

[spice veldt]

warp nexus is also 20% max and stacks 4 times like unstable power

[fresh steeple]

I'm thinking of something, but maybe it's just a false memory

[fresh steeple]

either way, the point is that Fatshark's language is not always what it suggests it should be

[near wyvern]

language that clearly doesn't describe the actual effect

This is the story of many descriptions in Fatshark games. They seem to outsource their description writing to some cheap work force who have no idea what's going on.

[fresh steeple]

so if 100% rending is actually "does X more damage" instead of "does damage as though the target has no armor reduction," there's no surprise with that interaction

either way, it's 12:30, so I must bid you adieu. If someone figures out what the sitch is, I'd love to hear it.

[lethal folio]

I don't understand how this is confusing.

<@&735928989146939404>

[fresh steeple]

now that's an interesting insult. I thought cocksneeze was a clear enough concept, but what the hell is a felchzebra?

I like it

haha it blocks the word fe1ching

anyway, I get fe1ching. I don't get the zebra part. But I appreciate it nonetheless.

[lethal folio]

there is no limit on rending.

[fresh steeple]

this was my suggestion. I'm looking forward to someone running down the numbers. Definitely signing off now, though. Ciao!

[spice veldt]

f

[south zephyr]

For some reason, I feel like someone just got baited into getting themselves banned

[fresh steeple]

wait, is that what happened to them?

[south zephyr]

either that or timed out and purged

[shadow wigeon]

Does anyone have a sense of how +8 brittleness maps to "% rending".

[fresh steeple]

oh, did 0 not have a role assigned?

[lethal folio]

One stack of brittleness applies 5% rending. Maximum 8 stacks

[fresh steeple]

40%

[shadow wigeon]

Ahh, cool, makes sense. Shockingly.

[fresh steeple]

theoretically every stack is 5% rending

[wanton sandal]

while transfer peril IV is awesome, idk...

earn blessing or replace with warp flrry?

[spice veldt]

with the 100% that I got from uncanny and the 40% from the 8 stacks of brittleness, I dealt 574 in this video #psyker-class message which fit with the math there #psyker-class message

[cyan notch]

whats ur stats

[fresh steeple]

Peril does nothing for Trauma

it doesn't hit weak spots

[wanton sandal]

not the best bt good distro

[shadow wigeon]

Well, it's for LMB. Pretty minimal unless you love bolting.

[wanton sandal]

trve

[fresh steeple]

so no, it's not actually awesome. It's useless for Trauma

[fresh steeple]

Ima smack whoever starts shooting off LMB Trauma shots to quell instead of just pressing the quell button

[wanton sandal]

damn shame im not vsing voidstrike for this character

[cyan notch]

id say grab rending

[fresh steeple]

wouldn't be shared anyway even if you extracted it. Gotta find the same blessing on specifically Voidstrike

[near wyvern]

67 blast radius is not ideal

[wanton sandal]

fvcked

[shadow wigeon]

Well you wouldn't do it to quell, you'd do it for free damage. I'm not gonna recommend anyone do it...

[wanton sandal]

yea bt only lvl 28 rn

[spice veldt]

60 damage and 80 everything else is personally my dream distribution

[fresh steeple]

the most important stats are at a decent threshold. None are ideal, but they're good enough to work. Damage is not that important on Trauma compared to other stats

[wanton sandal]

cute

[spice veldt]

very cool

[wanton sandal]

yeah. it's pretty decent allround, but definitely could've been a higher blast

[cyan notch]

who the hell needs 80 quell

max damage all day

[fresh steeple]

tbh the actual epicenter isn't affected too much by a low BR stat. You lose about 1/5 of a meter at that number. You lose a lot of outer range damage, but outer range damage isn't really damage. It's just for applying effects

[fresh steeple]

80% quell is actually kinda nice on Trauma. It's almost a 50% quell speed increase

[spice veldt]

quietude babyyyyyyyyy

[fresh steeple]

OKAY I'M GOING FOR REAL NOW BYEEEEE

[spice veldt]

bye

[cyan notch]

50% quell increase compared to what

what kind of quell

[near wyvern]

"just applying effects" like staggering ranged so they can't shoot while your are killing other stuff

[fresh steeple]

Yes. And SHockwave damage, and Blazing Spirit. But it's not utterly essential to the main damage component. You lose about a yard and a half in radius at that BR threshold. Also don't ping me I'm trying to sign off and go to sleep!

[lean frost]

ello little spark heads

[wanton sandal]

yeah trauma is very valuable with its stagger of thsoe fcking flamers that roast the team

[near wyvern]

Psykers never get to sleep

[spice veldt]

I don't have a staff with 50% quell so I'll have to make do with 58%

• 58% quell speed gives +8.7% quell speed. From 100% peril, I quell 9.37% each tick
• 80% quell speed gives +42.86% quell speed. from 100% peril, I quell 12.32% each tick

So a difference of 2.95% peril quelled

[fresh steeple]

a Trauma staff with 60% quell will go from 100 to 0 in about 3 seconds. One with 80 will go from 100 to 0 in a bit over 1.5

[cyan notch]

i assume ur talking about passive quell

[fresh steeple]

it's nothing you need to optimize, and you'll get to 0 qucikly enough that Quell is definitely on the upper end of "good stat to use as dump", but it does have a good benefit

[fresh steeple]

no, active quelling from 100 to 0

[cyan notch]

i dont think tahts true

[wanton sandal]

seems switched

[spice veldt]

oops

[lethal folio]

A good amount of quell/resistance saves you a tick from doing 100% full charge vent loops

[fresh steeple]

what do you mean, you don't think it's true?

[spice veldt]

with the trauma staff, it enables you to only need to quell two ticks to do a full charge

[fresh steeple]

quell speed affects both active quelling

and peril decay

a max 80 gives 43% quell speed and 31.5% peril decay

[spice veldt]

perhaps not necessary on the other staffs which generate less peril while charging, but it is appreciable nevertheless if only for quietude

i forget how much peril purgatus generates

[wanton sandal]

the least i thin

k

at least from feel

[fresh steeple]

it reduces active quelling peril at a faster rate. 100%. I just got back on to test in Psykanium with a ~50% quell staff and it quelled more than twice as slowly as my max 80% one

[lethal folio]

The quell speed stat scales your vent time from 0.5 to 1.5s which makes it ramp up at higher values.

[spice veldt]

oh so it was a god damn radical function

i was staring at some data points and trying random functions to fit it

[cyan notch]

oh yea it is technically twice as slow

i think the quell per tick is more important

[lethal folio]

It's a misdirection of a linear stat causing a non-linear effect.

[cyan notch]

as long as u get your tick threshold ur good

[spice veldt]

still love it for quietude

[formal ridge]

my newly minted best surge staff ... flak/maniac perks with +76% warp resistance...

[white cedar]

seesh

[formal ridge]

hadron just shat all over this god roll

[forest coral]

I HOPE YOURE PLEASED VARLET

[formal ridge]

yes mistress

[kind jay]

they should rename Sire Melk to Expired Melk

guess im a gunker now

UH OH

UH OHHHHH

FUUUU

[spice veldt]

lemayo

[cyan notch]

packwatch

[karmic delta]

I dont see a +20% sniper resistance

[white cedar]

no gunner or sniper lol

[kind jay]

no anything

Hold [x] to barter

[white cedar]

I like when I making 2 resis curio and end up getting racist curio instead( I got 3 of this equiped in my psyker)

60% sniper+gunner and 30%hound 15%mutant as an extra

[kind jay]

i think curior reists are multiplicative not additive

so its not really 60

[white cedar]

that's plausible.

but If it multiplicative, what is the base resistance btw

[kind jay]

oh im not entirely sure

someone else might know better

[white cedar]

I don't want to download spaw mob mod with active AI to test it out

or should I 🤔

you triggered my curiosity XD

[kind jay]

testing things is the best way to figure it out

you could check the guide in the pins or maybe @near wyvern knows

[bold spruce]

the blaze sword is the cool one right?

[kind jay]

no its the hot one

[bold spruce]

is it the one that u can turn blue

[kind jay]

im kidding, yes it is

[bold spruce]

oh

is it worth buy from here

[kind jay]

yes. it gives you a random gray one.

generally used for crafting or getting a better leveling weapon

[bold spruce]

isnt gray bad?

oh

[kind jay]

yeah but it gives you a gray of random rating between uhh 300 and 380

you then craft it to orange

[bold spruce]

so i should try and get a good one

[kind jay]

and repeat until you die and hadron turns you into a servitor

[bold spruce]

then make it orange

[kind jay]

if you dont have any orange weapons, its not a bad idea to make at least 1

just to have something to do missions with

[bold spruce]

yea i only have blues

whats something to look for in a blaze sword

[south zephyr]

@spice veldt tried out Bloodthirsty, think I prefer Unstable still, you were right, is useful more often

[kind jay]

do you want better single target or cleave?

[bold spruce]

i like cleaves

[kind jay]

make one of the Illisi swords (at the very bottom)

[bold spruce]

can it do what blaze does

[kind jay]

yep

theyre all blaze they just behave differently

[bold spruce]

is deimos more single target

[kind jay]

its designed to be a heavy poker so yes

but it has an ok light spam

illisi is pure cleave

[bold spruce]

https://i.imgur.com/gJ6STTH.png

good?

[kind jay]

its fine

im guessing youre still not 30?

[bold spruce]

27 i think

im almost 27

[kind jay]

so just use that one until 30

[bold spruce]

just as a grey or upgade it

[kind jay]

what difficulty are you playing

[bold spruce]

1-3

[kind jay]

grey is fine

[bold spruce]

alright ill barter my combat blade then

[kind jay]

once you hit 30 then you make another one, craft it to orange, and just use that while you farm mats and start the crafting loop

[bold spruce]

like buy a new sword?

[kind jay]

eventually youll have to

the one you have is super low stats

[bold spruce]

ill do that at 30

[kind jay]

heres mine as an example of what to try to go for

[bold spruce]

oh

thats pretty good

[kind jay]

yep. but wait til youre 30 first

[bold spruce]

ye the grey one is just to use for now

[kind jay]

yeah you got it

[white cedar]

@kind jay I tested my sniper curio. this is what I got

[kind jay]

ahh yes. so definitely not additive.

[white cedar]

I think there is treshhold

let me try with 30%

[kind jay]

the game has a lot of strange calculations at this point i just nod my head and go mhm

[spice veldt]

snipers deal 10x toughness damage and have a certain property where if their attacks touch your HP at all, all of the damage is dealt into your HP regardless of any toughness that had absorbed the damage

in damnation, they deal 122.5 damage

[kind jay]

example of games bs

[spice veldt]

sniper resistance stacks multiplicatively; two 20% sniper res will result in (1 - 0.2) * (1 - 0.2) = 64% damage taken instead of the 1 - (0.2 + 0.2) = 60% that you would expect from additive stacking

[white cedar]

so HP only in formmula is more accurate?

[spice veldt]

yeah you basically ignore toughness in the calculations unless you're a vet who's stacking toughness with Unwavering Focus active

[karmic delta]

I literally just go "hmm yes big numbers = good"

[kind jay]

@spice veldt is it the same thing with the other perks? like block, revive etc

[spice veldt]

no idea; I haven't personally looked at the code for that (and don't know how to) and haven't tested them

[kind jay]

fair

[spice veldt]

I have tested sniper res though

[white cedar]

in 30%, my shield and Hp is changed and there's something wrong XD

[cyan notch]

what is hp + 1 shield

[white cedar]

shiper broke the shield through Hp, right? I don't know I should include in the number or not

[spice veldt]

you'll probably want to write out the individual res from the curios, like 20% + 20% or 10% + 10% + 20% or whatever

[cyan notch]

it doesnt matter what your toughness is for psyker

you shouldnt count damage to your toughness

[white cedar]

let's me reroll my curio to 30% with same HP and shield

[cyan notch]

itll punch right through it

[white cedar]

I forgot that 20+10+10 and 20+20 is not the same method

F

[spice veldt]

f

[latent stirrup]

yep first is 0.648 overall (0.8 x 0.9 x 0.9)
2nd is 0.64 (0.8 x 0.8)

[cyan notch]

i dont know what ur calculating over here

what is the hp + 1 shield column doing

[white cedar]

just what HP I have +1

[cyan notch]

why

what is +1

+1 what

[white cedar]

I don't know should I include that 1 shield or not

when the shield broke, it have 1 shield left

[stone prawn]

trauma staff can hit weakspot?

[white cedar]

just -1 in that cell then

[white cedar]

not with right click

[stone prawn]

lmao

[cyan notch]

oh ur talking about 1 toughness remaining

yea ignore i think thats not a thing in real games

[white cedar]

that's what I get with my bad math and novice google sheet skills, let the pro break it up properly XD

[cyan notch]

also ur damage shouldnt include toughness damage

[latent stirrup]

you should test the following:

get shot by sniper with full toughness and at 0 toughness

[cyan notch]

its the same damage

[latent stirrup]

write down toughness dmg and health dmg for first case

then write down health dmg for 2nd case

[spice veldt]

always deals the same amount of damage unless you're an Unwavering Focus vet with 306.25 or more toughness

toughness does not matter if you do not have enough to fully absorb the sniper shot

[latent stirrup]

yes. And if he had done what i suggested, that would have been the outcome of the data analysis after the test

[white cedar]

all of that was full HP and shield btw

[latent stirrup]

so the "hp +1 shield" is "remaining hp after getting shot with full toughness"

[white cedar]

yep

[latent stirrup]

ok

[white cedar]

bad math + novice google sheet + bad english lol

[latent stirrup]

Does not need as much toughness, when curios with sniper res are equipped as well, or does it?

[spice veldt]

yep, it seems to reduce the amount of toughness needed to absorb it

[latent stirrup]

you said snipers deal 122.5 dmg
10x dmg to shields
so unwavering + 3x 20% resistance from curios should reduce the toughness required to >156.8 for full absorption

1225 dmg to shield
dmg applied after resistances: 0.25 x 0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8 = 0.128 dmg multiplier
0.128 x 1225 = 156.8 toughness dmg

[white cedar]

should I try 3 toughness curio with 60% sniper?

[spice veldt]

only as a vet

[latent stirrup]

dont need toughness curio
vet has 200 base toughness

everyone except vet can probably not reach enough toughness + toughness dmg red vs snipers

[kind jay]

what if you add kinetic shield at high peril?

to all that

[latent stirrup]

kin shield is 30% reduction?

[kind jay]

33 maxed

[latent stirrup]

can you get 420 toughness? 😄

then 33%+ 3 x 20% is enough 😄

[ornate hamlet]

I just shot the sniper in the head once while you guys were doing the math

[raw otter]

tried to upgrade
are blessings ok?
i think perks a bit not nice sadly
should i put maniacs instead of carapace?

[white cedar]

it hard(and annoying) to control method lol

[kind jay]

i can get 420. it won't be toughness tho

[ornate hamlet]

Slaughterer 4 is already pretty neat

I think you can change unyielding to flak, since bulwarks are a pain in the ass to fight on melee and reapers are something you rarely get close to

So crushers are the most realistic option you'll melee between those

[spice veldt]

here's a demonstration with +20% and +15% sniper res https://streamable.com/bnvbn3

[ornate hamlet]

And carapace/flak will also give you the full mauler coverage

[latent stirrup]

You probably want Bloodthirsty or Deflector as 2nd blessing

[spice veldt]

unstable power is pretty fine

here's a quick numerical comparison I made

[raw otter]

I see
i usually switch to bb / shredder auto pistol for bulkwarks when possible
thx

[spice veldt]

the one use case for keeping unyielding is for monstrosities

[raw otter]

oh i see
before i had riposte
so i swapped to unstable power for now at lv2
i guess can be a nice synergy

[spice veldt]

I personally don't find myself whacking crushers too often, and you don't usually want to aim for mauler's head because hitting their carapace head immediately ends your cleave and there are usually some other enemies around

[raw otter]

also probably my first slaughterer lv IV

[latent stirrup]

1.474x more is wrong or not? (+147.4%)
i think it is 1.474x as much (+47.4%)

same thing for the other x times more

[raw otter]

that's hud is nice
bery compact and minimal

[spice veldt]

hmm a notational issue

I personally interpret it as the latter, though I can see the ambiguity

[latent stirrup]

not a national issue. it is a general issue with people using languare incorrecly

it is very easy to demonstrate

1x as much

1x more

means not the same

0.5 x as much
0.5x more

means not the same

[spice veldt]

that demonstrates it yeah

[latent stirrup]

so of course, the same goes for any number larger than 1

"x times more" is so commonly used as "x times as much" that you can never tell for sure, what is meant, when someone says "x times more"

[raw otter]

true
but i think i will try to switch to flak instead of unyielding
cause i guess others can deal with monstrosities i guess

[ornate hamlet]

I think this is the first time I hear "as much" in that context

[raw otter]

a deimos can do very nice damage to monsters however

[latent stirrup]

how about "x times as many"
"twice as many"
"x times the amount"

[spice veldt]

to me, "as many" has the connotation of being associated with more discrete quantities rather than continuous

[ornate hamlet]

"Twice as many" just makes me go "twice probably means it's two times, hell if I know the rest of that sentence"

Though "more" can be confused as adding that value, so 1.15x more can actually sound like +115% which in turn is 215%

[latent stirrup]

yes tat is what i was saying

when a 15% increase (1.15x multiplier) is applied, it is more
so people tend to say "1.15x more than"

[ornate hamlet]

I only fully understand that case through context, firm that the game would not allow a player to do 1.474x more damage in the sense of doing 247.4% damage, but merely 147.4%

[spice veldt]

"I take 1.2x damage"; "I take 0.5x damage"

maybe using the 'x' notation with a determiner seems to be the error

[latent stirrup]

when using "more" and "less" it is usually better to use percentages
that way it is clear, that it is not a mix up
(especially when the percentage is below 100)

[spice veldt]

to be fair, you can indeed achieve that damage boost if you're considering damage times power

[ornate hamlet]

I like the percentage notation because the removal of that 1. at the start makes people think of the "between 1x and 2x" part

[ornate hamlet]

Do not Fatshark me right now, it's 6:37 AM

[spice veldt]

what slaughterer + unstable + warp charges + warp unleashed does to a mf

[ornate hamlet]

I want to be disappointed closer to nighttime

Oh yeah, slaughterer 4 is uhhh

+75% power at max stacks?

[spice veldt]

ye

and I held back by not using the autopistol as an example

[ornate hamlet]

Wait, and that gets multiplied by WB and WU instead of added?

[spice veldt]

yeah

[ornate hamlet]

I mean, of course it does, but wow

[spice veldt]

power and damage turns out to be multiplicative for some reason

[ornate hamlet]

So WU and WB are even better

[spice veldt]

instead of the damage contribution from power going into damage additively

[ornate hamlet]

Never taking this bloody thing off

Funny melee psyker

[latent stirrup]

damage bonuses of the same type are additive with each other
damage bonuses of different types are multiplicative with each other
and damage reductions are almost always multiplicative with each other (independent of type and source), because this prevents 100+% dmg reductions

a few years ago, i used to play a game that allowed to get >100% dmg reduction.
120% dmg reduction would cause the effect to alternate between

1. having 100-20=80% dmg resistance
2. having 100% dmg resistance and getting healed for 20% of the incoming damage

good times

[ornate hamlet]

Funny gun psyker

Fuck staves

[spice veldt]

i suppose given the absurd complexity of some of this game's systems, it was preemptive guarding to make damage reduction stack multiplicative even if it's among the same type

[white cedar]

I hate gun psyker(under t4) but i have to admit it, it is really fun and op to play

[latent stirrup]

Gun psykers are worse veterans.
fuck em 😄

[white cedar]

better than vet+pistol thou

[ornate hamlet]

I can't hear the vet over my 34% better bodyshot damage

[white cedar]

lol

[ornate hamlet]

And a better headshot damage too

[latent stirrup]

worse ammo economy and worse toughness economy, no?

[wet belfry]

Im sure the 2.5% extra damage the veterans get over psykers is helpful.

[spice veldt]

funnily enough, there's a very weird thing that doesn't make your toughness economy too terrible

[ornate hamlet]

Well, with more damage you can shoot enemies less, and psyker also has brain burst for the enemies they can't afford to shoot

[spice veldt]

when standing still with the shredder, your toughness regeneration from coherency is 15 per second

with +90% toughness regen speed from curios, that gets boosted up to 28.5 per second

[ornate hamlet]

I actually regularly use laspistol on psyker and leave BB for long range or crushers/bulwarks

[spice veldt]

https://streamable.com/grgtjp

[latent stirrup]

but when standing still, how much damage do you take per second? 😄

[spice veldt]

das true, though I reckon there's usually some cover

I'm personally always on the move with staffs so I wouldn't know

[ornate hamlet]

It's the one class that can actually pick a non-ogryn weapon without worrying about how they'll kill ogryns, which makes the class incredibly versatile

I stopped picking non-plasma stuff on veteran outside of doing the funny or delegating things to my team in the team-based game because it just felt good to not worry about killing any enemy

[latent stirrup]

my general problem with gun psykers is pretty much the same as with ogryn that focus on their gun too much

they ONLY use their gun
many gun ogryns do not use their ult to make space or help teammates
they waste ammo to clear hordes

many gun psykers do not BB a lot and shoot the enemies with their gun instead. often leading to longer ttk and them not focusing crushers and bulwarks

both cases make the entire team suffer

[ornate hamlet]

Eh, it's like me and staff psykers

[latent stirrup]

i am sure that there are players who do it well, but it seems like most by far, just do it very badly

[ornate hamlet]

I find many of them are too reliant on their staves and drag themselves down, so it generates me a bit of a negative opinion of the bunch

[spice veldt]

just the nature of your average teammates

[wet belfry]

I agree.

[spice veldt]

surge psykers will do that too

[ornate hamlet]

Yeah, just people being people

[spice veldt]

I don't think I've ever seen a pub surge psyker match or come close to my damage in melee

[white cedar]

in T5 there a lot of good gunpsyker than T4-

[ornate hamlet]

I get a bit endeared when I spot a gun psyker because I use one, but odds are they'll tunnel vision on the gun

I know I do sometimes trying to flex on the veteran

Reapers are my biggest weakness

I drop everything I'm doing to proc ghost out in the open

I just want the veteran to see me firing a pistol on the reaper

[latent stirrup]

true. some will spam their surge staff at everything

3 crushers?
you could surge stun them and then blast them with kinetic barrage BB

NAAAH let me just spam uncharged surge at them for ever

[ornate hamlet]

I still need a new force sword to get deflector and slaughterer, because combining it with the laspistol is straight up dirty

[latent stirrup]

trash mobs?
you could swap to melee and mow them down
naah itll be fine. just surge spam at them to "great effect"

many players are bad at using their available tools for the right job

it just seems extremely apparent with certain weapons like the surge staff (and gun ogryns)

[ornate hamlet]

I think with laspistol I pick up like 3 or 2 ammo tins per mission

I do get a bit crazier about it if the team doesn't use too much ammo

I sweat on headshots because they save me from a horrible death at the hands of shooters

[dry agate]

Hol up

[ornate hamlet]

100 base toughness ain't easy fr fr

[dry agate]

Why laspistol?

Im experimenting with guns rn

[ornate hamlet]

It gets good damage with WU and WB and can one-shot shooters at close range with headshots

[dry agate]

Suppression immunity?

[dry agate]

Ooo

[ornate hamlet]

Also deals good flak damage, doesn't shake violently and is pretty efficient on ammo

[nimble bolt]

Can anyone tell me if you hit an enemy and have Kinetic Flayer (10% chance to brain burst on attack), whether if you then have Wrack and Ruin (brain burst spreads fire) it will spread if that 10% brain burst goes off?

[ornate hamlet]

And it fucking murders reapers with crits

[spice veldt]

laspistol's base damage is low, but it has some basic crit chance (+15% on top of psyker's base 5%) and one of the weirdest crit damage tables

[ornate hamlet]

It's the only gun I used on psyker where I preferred crit chance and saw a negative response from the damage when I took out the 5% crit chance perk

[dry agate]

Wouldnt low toughness incentivize you to stay far away though, like with a lasgun?

[ornate hamlet]

Nah, I jump them mfs

[spice veldt]

it has access to the Ghost blessing which makes you immune to all ranged attacks for <1 second on weakspot hit

[ornate hamlet]

I don't care about my toughness, I stack 3 curios and go to town with a shitty 150 or whatever I have now

Still goes down pitifully if shooters gang up on me, but at that point I blame myself

[kind jay]

can't lose toughness if you have none

[ornate hamlet]

Vet can easily overtake this with the ult, but this is my damage nearly all the time and I have my ult free to do CC and kickstart kinetic barrage

But the gun still is very reliant on headshots and the player feels the drop

The damage falloff is legit dog shit, too

[dry agate]

Man thats way better dps than i expected actually lmao

[ornate hamlet]

But if you want to dance between shooters, it's just dumb fun

[dry agate]

Can definitely imagine this shredding with ghost

[spice veldt]

kinetic flayer does indeed proc wrack & ruin

[ornate hamlet]

Having a full second to line up the next headshot is great

It's therapeutic, even

It's like when you get that first headshot you get transported to a world where only you and the heads exist

Definitely don't try that in a horde

Laspistol also has the fastest swap speed of ranged weapons and you can use ghost defensively, like pulling it out to pop a head while you dodge backwards into cover if you feel you overextended

You can use it with deflector to bait shooter bursts and pull out the pistol between their shots

Get shot, shoot back

With ghost you can just rush enemies with deflector and start a ghost chain, and if you fail it you can sit behind deflector and create another opportunity

I just love everything about the combo besides the stupid damage falloff

If laspistol had a longer range to one-shot enemies it'd be easily one of the most overpowered guns for psyker

It's edging that line like psykers edge peril

[raw otter]

thats nice
many people say that toughness regen is not good

it can help a lot

[spice veldt]

yeah especially during slow engagements with ranged enemies where the map isn't close-quarters enough to just run them down with melee

[white cedar]

since gunner got nerfed, I have to remake all of my curio again. 😔

[south zephyr]

@ornate hamlet recently learned that las pistol on psyker also has a force push as special, which fits gun psyker incredibly well

[raw otter]

stamina regen also imo very nice if not essential
in all builds in vt2 stamina regen was a must
otherwise many times in breaking the guard

[spice veldt]

yeah I don't run kinetic deflection and appreciate it quite very much

though I ran it even with kinetic deflection before just for the pushes and running around

best cardio on tertium

[south zephyr]

after not running deflection for a while, I find that I prefer the toughness DR feat more

[dry agate]

Whats the best toughness feat for gun psyker btw?

Been running toughness on warp charge, but that forces me to either brainburst more than id like or have to rely on a 4% chance

[south zephyr]

this is what I have been using with Illisi and Shredder, Quietude is active enough that the other two couldn't provide higher value

[white cedar]

imo is 1 or 2 depends on staff/gun and playstyle

[south zephyr]

usually engage a fight by either stroking my illisi or getting some BB's off, either way, I maintain high peril almost the entire time

constantly regenning with Quietude and benefitting from Kinetic Shield and Unstable

[ember hornet]

this is the way

[south zephyr]

actually the most fun I've had on psyker in a long time

[ember hornet]

now just be really cool and run quicken

[south zephyr]

@ornate hamlet has inspired me to try out Las Pistol next

[ornate hamlet]

The psyker even starts with a laspistol

It's fate

[dry agate]

Interesting build, ill have to try this!

[south zephyr]

Yeah, basically took all the suggestions I'd been given about psyker/gunpsyker and cobbled this together

was running toughness regen on warp charge previously, but there were so many times where I couldn't get a charge when I wanted

but Quietude with the strokin' stick (Illisi) always provided

[ember hornet]

quietitude just too good relative to the others

especially since quell buff

[south zephyr]

could probably get better horde clear with AB instead of KB, but KB is really nice for when there is a crusher/bulwark pack

Illisi already has great horde clear anyways

[ember hornet]

my illisi build is 311211

for maximum illisi

[south zephyr]

gotta get them strokes in

[ember hornet]

quicken kind of a meme but it's quite fun

[south zephyr]

I wish psyker could get a UI buff indicator like vet nade generation feat for Kinetic Flayer

also, why isn't there a UI buff indicator for WU?

[nimble bolt]

awesome thanks

[spice veldt]

crosshair HUD has an option for showing kinetic flayer's CD

[south zephyr]

that a mod?

[spice veldt]

ye

[south zephyr]

why couldn't they just add it to base game

they did the same thing for vet nade

[kind jay]

which crosshair mod specifically

[spice veldt]

oh vet nades got a UI element for them in the base game?

[south zephyr]

yes

[spice veldt]

gawd damn

[south zephyr]

they get a little buff icon bottom left

slowly fills up

[spice veldt]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/9

[kind jay]

ty

[spice veldt]

it also has an option to display warp charges in this visual format

though they're new features and a bit buggy, as their position will randomly reset back to their default

[south zephyr]

the best QoL thing they did for psyker was make charges fall off 1 at a time

[ember hornet]

having them all expire was ass

[south zephyr]

the moment you don't have max nades, that thing pops up

slowly fills then gives you a nade

something like that for Flayer would be nice

they have the technology

[ember hornet]

it's immeasurably complex

[hidden crystal]

Hoo boy, that was not fun; constantly having to watch the meter, break out the BB if it got too low, and hope a vet didn't steal the kill...

[ember hornet]

sorry if it's blue it must die

[hidden crystal]

Yes, some people seem to take it as a "here's a glowing target for you to shoot".

[ornate hamlet]

The weird aura near the head means target

I'm guilty of it

[dry agate]

I mean to be fair like every game ever teach you to click on the glowing object

[ornate hamlet]

It's dark and the only enemy I see is glowing

[south zephyr]

I've gotten to the point where when I see a glowing blue head, I walk on by, unless it's something that isn't going to die in one BB

[ornate hamlet]

I'm gonna shoot the glowing guy on reflex

[hidden crystal]

Yeah, I may put fire into it if it won't die in one, but I try to avoid stealing warp charges.

I still want FS to make your own BB aura a different colour to other psykers.

Just so you know it's you that's locked that target.

[south zephyr]

wait for it...

immeasurably complex

[ember hornet]

might be possible to mod that if it's just for yourself, not sure

[hidden crystal]

I don't have the tech skill for that, and it may be the effects aren't distinct in code, but it'd be nice.

[ember hornet]

I'm just not sure if changing an effect like that would be allowed

[south zephyr]

What are the odds we get meaningful news on the 18th, and not vague "we moving towards this..." or "the team is aware of this..." or "we want to challenge the players and respect their time..."?

[cyan portal]

18th will be advertising aimed at temping people to log back in for content patch. It will be like any advert, vague and maybe enticing.

[cyan notch]

id keep my expectations low

[south zephyr]

yeah, this was what I was thinking as well

[cyan notch]

too little too late

[south zephyr]

tbf though, pre-Catfish, Fatshark was terrible at telling us anything or giving updates

[cyan portal]

If this game is a huge success it will be on console. We're basically paying to test and refine it for them.

[cyan notch]

it already was going to be

[hidden crystal]

I can't see that it wouldn't be. If things like the Healthbar mod haven't been banned (at least it wasn't last I heard), differentiating your BB colour is trivial in terms of giving you extra information.

[south zephyr]

There's even a mod that changes flame color and opacity iirc

So changing visual info that's already present shouldn't be disallowed by that logic

[graceful eagle]

but they already told us what we gonna get, 1 new mission and some balance changes

[regal basin]

anyone know if soulblaze kills count as a warp attack for the warp absorption perk? (replenish 15% toughness when you kill an enemy with a warp attack)

[cyan portal]

so, toppless bug isn't working any more?

it seems it won't let me change to a loadout that is topless

[sterile vale]

It does, warpfire = soulblaze

[regal basin]

thats great, thankyou

[white cedar]

should I reroll sniper to 20 or change HP to revive 🤔

[buoyant ibex]

Might want to get a higher base roll first

[subtle linden]

Use as is until 16% toughness

[buoyant ibex]

Isn't 17 max?

[runic stone]

does fs still hate psykers? Is it safe to come back and play yet?

[buoyant ibex]

psyker good

[wet belfry]

Psyker has probably the second highest dps in the game

[spice veldt]

quelling is faster, we got a faster power sword and a big brother to the duelling swords, warp charges drop off one-by-one, BB got a damage buff, warp unleashed got buffed, warp charges give 1% more damage

[wet belfry]

Psykers are strong.

[runic stone]

Hella

actually desirable

sick

[white cedar]

my 16%+ have only Regen T3 ._.

let it be -2%, what about perks

[spice veldt]

I personally like my stamina regen (particularly if you don't run kinetic deflection) or just more toughness

max health being the one that I would replace

[white cedar]

my friend said that too

my idle curio is stacking Toughness Regen+Sniper+[Anything]

[cyan portal]

you do realize if a sniper has its red beam on you that you can dodge left and right and they will never hit you?

[jade geode]

You do realize that you can't always see the red beam, that sometimes lag happens anyway, and that sometimes you're bodyblocked or in a narrow space and it's more difficult than normal, right? 😉

[white cedar]

"mostly" yes

[jade geode]

Anyways, not what I came here for.
Came to post this:

THE EMPEROR PROTECTS

That was an Emps reward 😄

Gonna reroll 4% crit and Blazing Spirit and it'll be a direct upgrade to my current...

(Yes I like Deflector, sue me >~>)

[cyan portal]

It's pity about the first target, prob drops you away from the mutie oneshot. Otherwise a great roll.

[jade geode]

That's my old roll.

New one is 80% first target

[kind jay]

nothing wrong with deflector. it's one of the 3 most used choices

[cyan notch]

u can extract slaughterer from your old one too

[jade geode]

I know, I know, but a lotta people seem to hate it tho XP

[jade geode]

Yep!!! 😄

[kind jay]

i hate that it's a blessing and not a feat

that you could use on any weapon

but it's good

[jade geode]

Eh, I'd rather it be neither, and just be intrinsic to the force Swords, I think.

Also they need to bring back it triggering on revive

That was the Shit man

[cyan portal]

if it was intrinsic they'd have the nerf the infinite dodges or insane damage though, so kinda glad it isn't.

[jade geode]

Ahhhhh truuuue, that's fair.

[cyan portal]

slaughterer is strong enough for 2 damage blessings, so it is kinda fine. If they rip slaughterer at some point it might feel bad.

[jade geode]

Yeah, true.

Just I think that some people can't get over running Deflector over another damage blessing, the the Rending on Weakspot one, forget the name atm

[near gale]

That's why the full 60% sniper resist does a lot for Psyker, especially if you aren't running any health curios.

Getting tagged isn't certain death, always

[cyan portal]

https://youtu.be/Ya1MK0fkZOo just dodge more, should be an instinct when you hear the audio cue

[grizzled jasper]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/13ZXf1lf3d3K2b/d1337oM9gwkF?invite=cr-MSxNT0EsMTczOTM4NDQ3LA

[spice veldt]

with regards to snipers, my muscle memory to dodge sometimes fucks me over since I try to dodge instead of sliding, which ends up being slightly too long to do especially when I'm already sprinting and need to un-release my shift key and press down again to dodge

and my fingers being slow to swap from W + Shift into A/S/D + shift, though I am working on that

[cyan notch]

sometimes u dont get audio cues

obviously if ur 1v1 vs a sniper that shits easy

[kind jay]

my personal favorite is the insta hitting stealth sniper

the one that has neither sound nor charge up

[cyan notch]

just dodge lol

I Dont Know About You But I Am A Professional Dodger Just Dodge Lol Have You Tried Dodging

[ornate abyss]

Look what I got after a mission

what should I do with it

[kind jay]

i can't i suffer from a degenerative condition called a skill issue

[inland sand]

melt it

[kind jay]

guess I'll die

[jade geode]

A Thousand times. THIS.

I play exclusively T5, I'm an old Cata player in VT2, 2000hrs playtime between the two games, etc etc.
I'm not a newbie lol.
Issue is that sometimes you can't dodge. That's the point I was making.
And since the other "resistances" are kinda ass to build into, and Snipers are so punishing for just a single hit, and that single hit can come from BS? It's not terrible to have some Sniper resist.
I don't know if I'd go for 60%, personally, but if you've got an otherwise good curio that has Sniper on it, it's not exactly "bricked" lol.

[graceful eagle]

i swear sometimes when they spawn first shot from them is without ramp up and you cant even see laser
impossible to todge

[jade geode]

Bugged shots with no audio cue/charge-up, getting body-blocked by mooks, getting pushed out of cover by a flamer or dog boop, being stuck in a narrow space, being on a buggy ramp and trying to dodge but "catching your foot" on the unlevel terrain...
They're not possibly to dodge in 100% of circumstances.
Me staring down a sniper with nothing else around? I'll dodge-dance for days. I'll calmly walk at them with my melee out in I want XD
But in the 'Tide games, it's not the things you See that kill you.
It's the things you don't see, the out-of-control situations, etc.
That's what you want to build insurance against.

[jade geode]

Yup. Was running Metalfab just last night. In the final event room. I'd just healed, walked out towards the button to start the event. BAM.
Sniped from above and behind, no audio cue, no laser before I walked out.

Just 3/4th of my health deleted with no warning or counterplay.

🙂 👍🏻

[cyan notch]

ahem

just dodge more lol

[white cedar]

should sacrifice my 30%mobility and change to left one? 😂

[graceful eagle]

you wont notice much difference, but you get 1m more area suppression with 80% collateral

which you probably also wont notice lol

[white cedar]

back to mobility then lol

Autopistol Akimbo 😂

[graceful eagle]

i would keep rolling for better perks, like maniac and flak

[prisma copper]

Honestly I like staves but I am a shredder burster supremacist

Especially when fighting monsters

[white cedar]

gun psyker is also not my main too. I make it just in case I bored of staff

[graceful eagle]

better main it before they nerf shredder lol

[night violet]

How do the dueling swords do at Damn? Been enjoying a Mk V while helping a friend level up in malice. Mine has rending and crit on dodge for blessings

Base stats are mostly level in the high 60s and 70s

[kind jay]

if you're good with it you should be fine. though deimos is basically dueling 2.0

[night violet]

I’m probably average, trying to take a break from force swords so I decided to try and build a decent dueling sword

Figured I could abuse the unlimited dodge and crit blessing synergy

[kind jay]

i found it painful to use personally but I've seen some good plays with it

[wet belfry]

Dueling sword isnt good is the only thing to say.

The weapon needs more damage in both its heavys and lights aswell as more blessings.

But hey i managed to do duo damnation with a dueling sword so it is certainly “duelable” in damnation. But with our current caste of weaponry i believe they would enable much more then what dueling swords ever would like solo-T5 or DUO-HI-t5

[prisma copper]

Honestly one of the best guns in game. Especially with a vet in your party cuz elite kills give you like 25-30 ammo back

[south canopy]

Hey is the Illisi good

[prisma copper]

It is

But I prefer the Deimos

[ionic needle]

25-30? Isn't it more like 6 with ammo at 80%?

[graceful eagle]

+6 and +8 on vet

[feral verge]

Yeah lol

It's really good

So is the Deimos

[south canopy]

Alright thanks friends

[iron star]

i think its perfect right?

[tropic vigil]

Probably as close to perfect you can get until you can find a 380

[hollow current]

holy shit, upgrading 5 new force swords. 3 of them getting hit with +block efficiency on the first upgrade.

And 2/5 both rolled block eff and melee crit chance

[tropic vigil]

Does anyone have experience with combat ability regen and a bb and barage build? Would thr ca regen be worth investing in 3 curios?

[sick isle]

should I?

[tropic vigil]

I thought melee crit wasn't worth it?

[hollow current]

that's a pretty good duelling sword, so if you're gonna use them, sure.

and yeah smoke, my force sword rolls are absolute shit today.

[tropic vigil]

Personally I wouldn't buy that but dueling swords are kind of whatever, plus you can only harvest one perk from it

[hollow current]

alright. turns out me getting griefed on the first 6 swords today rolls was so hadron could give me a good result on the 9th one.

[near wyvern]

If you have nothing else to do with your Melk bucks why not, but otherwise I would say no

[hollow current]

gonna turn block to flak and upgrade uncanny to 4

[near wyvern]

Why are people so eager to run uncanny on Deimos

Y'all just light spam?

[hollow current]

against scabs and stalkers its nice.

easier to get into 1 shot light territory with light spam

[near wyvern]

The heavies have no armour penalty except against carapace, light you only use to get into the 2nd heavy

Unstable power is so much better so you can instagib mutants

You have +25 maniac on it as well

It's just begging to have unstable power

[hollow current]

if I had a low warp res one I'd agree but uncanny is more mindless and it feels 50/50 whether i got peril to 1 shot a mutie

[long wharf]

Goodbye, shirtless rejects

[random cedar]

Finally got back into psyker for the first time since launch and God the Deimos is amazing

Just using a plain ~250 green but it clears house

[tender terrace]

man they really made monstrosities a joke now

[kind jay]

always has been

[tender terrace]

at least they had health pools

now they just melt

[safe crystal]

They have the same healthpools, aside from plogryn who gained more health. The problem with them is they are very easy to dodge, or they have a condition they must meet before they can do anything remotely dangerous, like bonbon having to first vomit on you before it can eat you, or DH's being completely evadable. That, on top of players generally getting better at dealing with them leave them in the state they are. They were never a problem unless there was a lot of other bullshit coming after you, and even in that case, you could just leave one person dodging the boss forever while the others deal with the more threatening things

[tender terrace]

my experience after not playing since early march is that monstrosities literally melt in seconds vs not dying very fast at all

shrug

[mental rock]

I think people have just generally gotten better at handling them

[safe crystal]

People using thunder hammers more after the buffs it got, and in general people being better at the game tends to do that

[tender terrace]

i mean in this game literally 2 people were dead and i was handling a horde and one guy melted the nurgle

[red wind]

what’s the current best in slot blessing for the mk5 force sword, aside from slaughterer?

i’m thinking either deflector for utility or something like uncanny strike

[safe crystal]

Unstable if you like running at high peril and also run warp unleashed, deflector for utility, not sure what i'd run for light attack spamming, maybe shred or unstable?

[kind jay]

there isn't one. it's either unstable, deflector, or bloodthirsty meme

[red wind]

slaughter already gets you to one-shot trash mobs with light attacks so that’s what i use for spam lol

i guess unstable then

[ocean cipher]

am i the only one that feels like there should be more downsides to being at high peril aside from just exploding when u do something at 100%

a couple that i've thought of is if
A: you're above 80% peril your peril could slowly start ticking upward, then blow up if you stay at 100% for like 20-30 seconds
B: false cues at high peril. Split second sniper tracers, nonexistent poxhound howls or poxburster bomber ticks, that sorta thing

[gloomy yarrow]

Movement speed reduction?

[safe crystal]

Movement and attack speed reduction would be interesting, with MiM negating it

Theres no reason to pick MiM over infinite block or damage reduction right now

[gloomy yarrow]

Well now it has a use

[kind jay]

i gotta admit that sounds like a bad time

definitely no to fake cues

[lethal folio]

high heat slowdown is awful and why in vermintide you always used whatever removed it.

[lunar hollow]

mind in motion should probably just be reworked

the other two options are purely defensive and mind in motion is just this weird sort of situational mobility tool

[lethal folio]

It should allow sprint venting.

or some stamina recovery for venting

[lunar hollow]

i would rather it do something like enable psyker to have another way to access infinite dodges (maybe requiring you to have brainburst equipped) besides force swords

psyker doesn't really need more stamina since the regen is so insanely high

[latent stirrup]

no movement slowdown from quelling as baseline, and change the feat to "infinite dodges while brainbursting"?

sounds good

[lunar hollow]

mostly the second part yeah but that would work

[strong thicket]

That sounds abusable

[latent stirrup]

or maybe just increased dodge count

[safe crystal]

If you need to dodge more than twice while brain bursting, you shouldnt be brain bursting in that situation

[latent stirrup]

wrong

sometimes you should focus a specific target, when a horde is around

[strong thicket]

How about keep the venting theme and increase the venting ratio while moving

[lunar hollow]

i dont think this type of bonus is ever going to have major upsides over kinetic deflection or shield

[latent stirrup]

or you should bb crushers for max dps (with many weapons)
if there are many crushers around, you need more than 2 dodges

[lunar hollow]

the other two have a ton of utility in a lot of situations

and their conditions are very easily achievable

kinetic deflection wants you to start using it at low peril (if you need to block a lot, such as when you revive), and kinetic shield wants you at high peril

mind in motion wants you to be quelling in order to gain the movement speed buff

unfortunately with the way peril works you're oftentimes quelling for 1-2 ticks and thats it

or already in a safer position in order to quell

mind in motion could also work similar to what the Agile blessing was supposed to be on dueling sword. a successful dodge (as in, you actually dodge an attack instead of mashing buttons in a panic) resets your dodge counter

more useful on non-force sword weapons, but i guess psyker doesn't really have that many low dodgecount weapons anyways

[strange canyon]

I made this because I lucked onto the blessing combo but is there any actual use-case for it?

[kind jay]

there is but slaughterer is needed

not blazing

because you'll just kill shit and it won't proc

more specifically: slaughterer/bloodthirsty is a good combo on illisi but bloodthirsty/blazing is a meme

[red wind]

false cues would be sick honestly let me hear the voices

i think peril ticking up at 80%+ peril is kinda stupid

because you want to be balancing yourself at mid/high peril for damage with some feats and/or blessings

[ocean cipher]

you could easily quell it back down but i feel like its too easy to maintain high peril with 0 consequence.

like if it was 1% every few seconds that wouldn't be terrible

[red wind]

the reason it’s so easy to maintain high peril without consequences is because of how inconsistent the perils explosion is

i noticed this especially when going for the penance which requires you to blow up

getting to 100% isn’t an “oh shit” moment it’s more like “i can probably bb like 3 more people” type deal

they just need to make the explosion trigger more consistently on 100% so you actually have to manage it

[ocean cipher]

it seems to be very consistent for me: if you START a peril consuming action at 100% peril, you expkofe

so if you start charging a brain blast at 99%, you won't explode

what it should be is performing a peril-consuming action (such as a bb) while at 100% peril, OR being at 100% for more than a few seconds should explode you

make it fairly lenient like 5-10 seconds

but that way you can't pre charge a bb at 95% and hold it until your target enters sight even tho you've been at 100% for 30 seconds

[red wind]

right, but the problem with that is so many things reset your peril buildup by either you or your teammates getting kills that getting to 100% is really not a big deal

[ocean cipher]

i just feel like peril generally needs to be more punishing

its too free atm

esp with the f cancelling explosion

"oh hold on im at 100% lemme just brain blast this bitch anyway and then i'll quell"

[red wind]

yeah

you can absolutely go ham if you have your f as a backup

[ocean cipher]

ive gotten off like 8 bbs in a row before

[balmy talon]

Does the rending build still work?

[red wind]

someone on reddit (i think?) suggested that BB could be reworked into a dot hold effect that scales the more you hold on someone and i think that’s a pretty solid idea

[ocean cipher]

ok but pop

[red wind]

because right now if your teammates kill whoever you’ve locked you just build up peril for no reason and get nothing out of it

[red wind]

true…

[ocean cipher]

maybe make it so it dot's them until they're in kill range and then executes

[red wind]

yeah that’s what i’m thinking

right now it just does 900 damage flat and builds 45% peril

in damnation every special/elite (the enemies you should be using bb on anyway) take 2-4 pops

which i think wouldnt be a problem if they just make it do some kinds of tick damage until you get to that threshold or whatever and then the pop

BB feels kinda useless on heavier enemies in heresy+

personally i only ever use it on snipers and whatnot if we don’t have a vet

[ocean cipher]

ok so hear me out:
holding down bb on a target causes the target to take ramping dot, and increases the damage of the finishing blast. As soon as the blast will kill, it pops them

[red wind]

ideally this is what it should do

however they would have to actually make peril a downside

like you’ve said

because if they make bb actually worthwhile to use on bigger targets it needs to also punish you for overusing it

or something similar to that tone i guess

[kind jay]

what? you can 2 bb crushers with the right build

on damn

[red wind]

m

[wet belfry]

I think this discussion in general may have had tons of misinformation

[red wind]

true

most of my actual “advanced” knowledge on the game is from like launch

[wet belfry]

For you to explode from BB you need to be at 97.x peril

the x is an unknown decimal for me rn

So the safe thing is to be at 96 peril and do a brainburst since you cant see decimals normaly on peril.

[red wind]

i don’t remember the last time i exploded from casting bb below 100%

and even then i can burst sometimes twice at 100% and be fine

i think it has to do with the random quells from various buffs resetting it? or something along the lines

[wet belfry]

Keep in mind if you proc the reduce peril iconic you dont explode.

[red wind]

yeah

[fallow falcon]

I have no experience with the dueling sword meta, can this be made into anything worthwhile?

[gloomy yarrow]

Rampage is stupid hard to activate I’d rather have shred

[wet belfry]

Dueling sword is very much working harder to do less.

[gloomy yarrow]

You’re just a hater

[wet belfry]

Sometimes its good to be a hater so that it can be buffed :p

[red wind]

rampage is kinda worthless on duelling sword imo

[fallow falcon]

So shred + riposte ideally

Although uncanny strike doesn't seem terrible

But you'd probably be better off just BBing crushers

[gloomy yarrow]

Uncanny applies to flames fyi

[red wind]

a lot of things apply to flames

it’s kinda funny

i should probably run warp battery instead of kinetic flayer

[gloomy yarrow]

Kinetic flayed is kinda meh, should have its cooldown reduced

[lethal raptor]

Can critical hits affect secondary attack on trauma staff?

[fallow falcon]

I don't believe so

[red wind]

honestly yeah it’s nice to randomly get a warp charge off an add but at the same time ab with 6 charges is kinda funny

i mean your damage overall at 6 is kinda funny

everything (surpassingly) scales properly

[gloomy yarrow]

Yeah it’s pretty good, same with wildfire or whatever the 2nd l25 talent is

[fallow falcon]

Nevermind, it can

[red wind]

is wildfire worth it though

4 stacks of blaze

i mean i guess? it could proc AB

[gloomy yarrow]

It’s not actually that bad if you have a good flame staff

[fallow falcon]

Idea, replace surge with blazing spirit and use wildfire?

[red wind]

what’s blazing spirit again

soul blaze on crits?

[gloomy yarrow]

Wildfire is only good with flame staff

[fallow falcon]

Fire stacks on crit

[red wind]

ah

wait hold on wasn’t it wrack and ruin that applies blaze

i’m actually stupid and have not checked my feats in so long

didn’t wildfire replace something in an update a while ago?

[lethal folio]

It replaced kinetic overload

[red wind]

right

[lethal folio]

Which I would argue is better than wildfire

[lethal raptor]

So I have both staffs, which one would be preferable to use? The crit effects don't seem to proc very often in the psykanium

[static agate]

My preciusssss

[static agate]

You have a base 5% crit chance as psyker, so 5% chance to crit

Neither are super good tbh, but the right one is better than left one

[lethal raptor]

Isn't brittleness a decent debuff to apply enemies?

[frozen osprey]

fellas....

trauma staff is kinda freakin fun

[static agate]

Your trauma staff does same damage no matter

The brittleness also is only like 30% debuff or such

But whole team can use it

[lethal raptor]

Probably nice vs bosses

[static agate]

Possibly, but trauma is primarily non-boss

More damage by just brainbursting

[lethal raptor]

fair enough

[static agate]

You need Warp Nexus to make any crit build viable

Like this

But, overrall Warp Flurry is best

You charge faster, which results in less Peril generation, meaning more hits

[spice veldt]

the exception being the beast of nurgle, which takes 2x explosion damage and generally gets chunked by the trauma staff more than BB

[river sand]

brittleness doesnt do anything against bosses. nurgle beast and ogryn are unyielding. there are very few weapons that have reduced dmg vs unyielding so brittleness does nothing. but trauma itself does double dmg on beast of nurgle

[steel flame]

Gotta stick warp nexus on there and you'll be in business baby

[river sand]

the right one can be made to a decent crit / blazing staff. but charge rate is crap on both its kinda important on trauma

[spice veldt]

you get the warp charge even if the target dies as long as you've charged the BB past around the halfway mark

[river sand]

the one im using lately, not too bad

[lethal raptor]

I put warp flurry on the left one to replace the peril reduction, will warp nexus to replace double shot on the right one when I find it.

[rapid bear]

Of all the melee weapons to roll on my psyker... 🤣

[formal ridge]

man.. I think Im done with surge for a while... its just not especially useful except in hounds mode or high shock

[frozen osprey]

i finished all the new penances boys. i just need 24 more missions and i can get the final psyker headwear...

[formal ridge]

surge is fun if you can consistently push before any teammates get there

[rapid bear]

Yeah... surge can get really frustrating to play when you're not facing waves of multiple mutants, dogs, trappers, and bursters. You can't carry for shit, you can just keep your team from dying to the worst mobs so they can carry.

[formal ridge]

its definitely not needed in regular high intensity

[rapid bear]

I actually find myself prefering purgatus because of that. The thing can carry like mad and clear out the worst compressed waves of trash without using ammo.

[formal ridge]

its decent with ascendent blaze but even then it depends on team comp because u may have a better hoard clear person

and you are just competing for hoard kills

[spice veldt]

illisi babyyyy