psyker-class

[atomic forum]

it's pretty consistent like, i've just been spamming specials on bosses and repeatedly doing that semi frequently. it doesn't happen every time so i'm not really sure what it's doing

[olive ember]

But you gotta actually proc a heavy hit to the head without some super smart guy autopistol'ing the boss and proccing the shield back early

[atomic forum]

yeah which i think is why starting it on the shield and having the damage transfer over is so nice, since it just, immediately starts doing health damage

[olive ember]

But yeah both the obscures and deimos have the same special, which has a 200% dmg modifer on flak and all that

[forest coral]

was that max slaughteror stacks

[atomic forum]

since the special is multiple instances of damage

[olive ember]

The problem with that strategy is that you are animation locked while the boss isn't down

[atomic forum]

that was with unstable power

[forest coral]

ahh ok that would make more sense

[atomic forum]

i hadn't swapped to slaughterer yet

unstable def still better for bosses, but killing like 1-2 adds is p easy for slaughterer

[forest coral]

ohhh, ya should

[atomic forum]

illi slaughterer is hilarious on bosses

[forest coral]

makes life more comfy

well illisi by its description is inaccurate

it kinda almost does same amount of boss dps over sustained period of time as the deimos if u hold aggro

its just cracked af all round lol

[true shadow]

that's not an inaccurate description

[atomic forum]

but yeah second to like, autopistoling a boss in the head, just slapping it with deimos specials has proved to be surprisingly powerful

[forest coral]

its also strong horde clear

[true shadow]

it's better at horde-clear and still a decent boss killer because of the shared things

[forest coral]

it does everything

ahaha

ye

[true shadow]

but deimos does it faster

i can 100% prove that

[forest coral]

yes faster

you dont need to prove that

[true shadow]

yes

exactly

[atomic forum]

yeah illisi is cracked i love it. however deimos just, one shotting every shitter to the head with literally nothing added is like. pretty awesome

[forest coral]

tahts why i said almost

its not that far behind

[true shadow]

the description isnt inaccurate 🙂

force swords are in a pretty good place right now i can almost forgive the deflector revive change

[atomic forum]

i would use illisi more if I wasn't a purgatus enjoyer. when i play shredder, illisi is so fun

deimos is just a perfect purgatus companion

[forest coral]

i just wonder what else they would release

[olive ember]

you guys aren't talking about the OG OFS smh

[forest coral]

since new lot of weapons that have come out are strong af

[true shadow]

the ofs was powerful too

[forest coral]

now we need the content for it

[olive ember]

fucking shiny toys that will get nerfed smh

[true shadow]

people were just harping on dueling swords because

[forest coral]

[true shadow]

peril

then peril changes

so fs back to king

[forest coral]

now deimos exists

[true shadow]

then new patch drop even cooler fs and buff the obscurus damage to match

[forest coral]

so why use duelling swords

[atomic forum]

i never liked the obscurus personally, dueling sword stabs were just very enjoyable. now i can force sword stab and it's ludicrous

[true shadow]

now fs god emperor

[forest coral]

[true shadow]

obscurus could do massive hordeclear and special clear with slaughterer

[forest coral]

well wouldnt call it massive

[true shadow]

i would

i played it.

[forest coral]

but it was efficient with anicancel

So did i

[true shadow]

it was efficient without it keemo

play better

[forest coral]

I think i played just fine

[atomic forum]

tbf slaughterer kinda does that on it's own to some extent. i feel like a banana peel with slaughterer on it could shred in this game

[true shadow]

well yeah power boosts are cracked

[atomic forum]

i want thrust on deimos

[forest coral]

it kinda just stands above other blessings for fs

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/96ead9f30e0dca00a49a38bed86effbd
this was my obscurus(uncanny strike was deflector) until the big patfch

[forest coral]

thrust on deimos would be funny

one shots muties and most elites already

what could that level of damage let you pull off?

[atomic forum]

me burning enemies and then pulling out my deimos to just stab it into the air menacingly for thrust

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/332726ac4b8f8dcce7d84ad3831a33f0
man the god emperor really loves fucking with me

[atomic forum]

unstable power lets me one shot mutants in damnation it's quite funny

[true shadow]

to be fair mutants take a lot of melee damage

[forest coral]

just tapping them on the nose with ur deimos

[olive ember]

DS was only popular because of its move tech

[forest coral]

[true shadow]

boop their snoot with your death blade

[olive ember]

the moment they removed move tech on dueling sword

it went straight from like

Off-meta to like

B tier

at best

[forest coral]

it just became a shittier knife

the moment that happened

[olive ember]

Basically

i mean its got better horde clear but like

[atomic forum]

i pretty much only used dueling sword for stabbing elites in the face while using purgatus and even then mostly just because it felt fun

[olive ember]

if you want horde clear just run the antax

if you want heavy damage also run the antax

or the FS

the only thing dueling sword has is a better than average dodge with slightly better horde clear compared to the knife

[true shadow]

always hated the movesets

[atomic forum]

ive fallen in love with deimos moveset tbh. the first two attacks are just so versatile for general poking/prodding/etc based enemy removal

[forest coral]

i still want something that feels like sword dagger in darktide

deimos is kinda close but not quite there

just feels... simplified?

i dunno how to describe it

[atomic forum]

i didnt play enough of vermintide to recall many weapons but i do want something like the spear staff, or at least the m1 of it

[hybrid solstice]

melk comin through for a G

[olive ember]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHvudfEiVOE

[summer prairie]

You don't really "skip" a phase but also don't need any help if you time the special right https://streamable.com/bragk9

[olive ember]

mfw when he runs kinetic shield and his explanation is "this is just best of slot" like smh

same thing with warp battery like bruh

[summer prairie]

for solo sure

[olive ember]

shush

actually

is warp battery that good? idr

[atomic forum]

i definitely run kinetic shield with illi since i never wanna be at low peril

I run warp battery

[digital loom]

i only watch jsat videos for the maths and mechanics explanations

why you all getting worked up over clickbait

[atomic forum]

i'm not 100% on it but I run it for now

[summer prairie]

surge is terrible with kf and wildfire would do him nothing

[olive ember]

I'm barely worked up but yeah

I mean I run KF with surge

it isn't actually that bad

[forest coral]

why wouldnt u use warp battery tho

[olive ember]

idk 8% extra dmg isn't that useful to me I guess unless it hits specific breakpoints

[forest coral]

ya mostly that

[olive ember]

KF helps with warp charge maintenance and it is free dmg

[atomic forum]

2 brainburst crushers

[true shadow]

i run kf for the free random damage

[shadow wigeon]

I've swapped to battery, but also with Tranquility.

[atomic forum]

is one of the big ones for me

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/671cc3a196be00a435f04ab138b3bdba
once again, my preferred feats now

[olive ember]

I forget what are the specific breakpoints of 6 charges + WU compared to KF

[olive ember]

quicken user

[true shadow]

yeah

[forest coral]

the only times i wouldnt run battery are probably on gun psyker

[atomic forum]

kinetic flayer do be random damage, warp charge uptime, and is really fun

[olive ember]

I mean

[true shadow]

quicken means i can purgatus for as long as i want

[forest coral]

but its mainly because i dont like random damage

[true shadow]

without stopping

so

[olive ember]

I mean the 8% extra damage only rly matters for BB breakpoints tho

you aint killing much with surge and illisi already slaughters through everything

[forest coral]

Which is kinda important especially in damnation

[olive ember]

Eh

[true shadow]

eh

[olive ember]

I mean its also warp charge gen

[true shadow]

not really

[olive ember]

I run 3/1/2/1/3/3

[forest coral]

warp charge gen really isnt hard to upkeep on either ab or kb builds tho

[true shadow]

i only use bb for warp charge generation and then go back to my melee or staff and have played like this since the closed beta

[olive ember]

I mean

I use my KB as a burst option more than a use on cooldown

[true shadow]

although i used AB until the recent patch

because quicken was shit

[olive ember]

normally I'm just melee'ing

[atomic forum]

i've used kinetic flayer so goddamn much, and honestly, it feels way less random than it should. like the amount of times it's hit exactly what I want, and this is 100% confirmation bias I know, is quite nice. like a lot of the time i just start shooting a big guy and boom, brainburst. plus even when it does kill a random shitter, the warp charge gen is nice if I'm not using brainburst, which is a fair bit of the time

[forest coral]

and if ur lazy, communion goes brr

[true shadow]

communion is less probable than kf

and kf has saved my ass in very tight situations

many times

[olive ember]

the thing with communion is that

its only rly reliable in huge hordes

[true shadow]

also if there are more than one psyker with it

:))))

[olive ember]

but normally I have warp charges by the time a huge horde hits

[atomic forum]

yeah psychic communion i've been deliberating on getting rid of. more uses of my ult would be nice, especially with kinetic barrage

[olive ember]

I mean it depends on build

if you are constantly draining your charges

like AB or Quicken

Communion is worth

[true shadow]

kf does synergize ok with cerberal lacerations for even more random damage(tm)

[olive ember]

but if you are using KB honestly, I prefer the sustain from the KF proc every 15 seconds

well more accurately

I prefer the 15% CDR from aura over warp charge generation from communion

[atomic forum]

oh yeah double brainbursting is also hilarious

[olive ember]

if I am keeping charges since I'm using KB

[forest coral]

well, i find that completely unnecessary for KF at that point if ur running kb

[olive ember]

I mean

[true shadow]

double brainburst is hilarious.

wym

[atomic forum]

"why did that mutie die in one- oh. lol"

[olive ember]

You would need to BB constantly

[forest coral]

but if its ur playstyle, suppose it works

[olive ember]

I mean

[forest coral]

BB sniping is pretty efficient tho

well kb builds

[olive ember]

warp battery imo is kind anot that good without AB

[true shadow]

i am weapon

[olive ember]

atleast with surge staff

[true shadow]

why not? quicken exists

[olive ember]

Lmao

and quicken

[true shadow]

🙂

[forest coral]

Quicken and ab are on same line tho

[atomic forum]

i think quicken is def slept on. it depends on what you want out of your ult

[true shadow]

...yes, exactly.

[olive ember]

Idk how you can generate enough charges to keep up with quicken CD ngl

but

yeah

[true shadow]

easy

[olive ember]

actually with double charge gen is possible

[atomic forum]

quicken can mean having your mini zealot ult on a shorter cooldown, which for some builds is great

[olive ember]

still rng tho unless you are BB'ing which is eh

[true shadow]

6 charges? 3 brainbursts

[olive ember]

not my style

I mean

[true shadow]

takes literally 20 seconds tops

[olive ember]

3 BB doesn't make sense cuz math doesn't add up

[true shadow]

2 4 6

2 4 6 2 4 6 2 4 6

2 4 6 2 4 6

[olive ember]

unless you are running tranquility

[forest coral]

or wouldnt u rather just KB and bb 5 times in a row?

[true shadow]

derpy.

you can bb at 95% peril

you press r for half a second

and you are safe

[olive ember]

I mean

I guess

[true shadow]

there is no reason not to

[olive ember]

are you literally just

[true shadow]

with WU

[olive ember]

BB BB BB press F

and then run BB BB BB

[true shadow]

if you want to do that sure but no

[olive ember]

repeat?

meh

[true shadow]

i use it to complement my purg

so i can shoot it

infinitely

[olive ember]

you run purge without AB

huh

[true shadow]

in crowds

[olive ember]

I mean

[forest coral]

Im trying to agree with ur reasoning but its not quite coming to that

[true shadow]

i run purg with communion and KF and quiicken

[olive ember]

you can do that normally

[atomic forum]

for horde scenarious, quicken is absolutely the most purging value

[true shadow]

i have no functional interruption in fire

[forest coral]

like quickening in most cases just feels redundant

[atomic forum]

but i think that's kinda overkill personally

[true shadow]

if i ran it with WB i get my ult in 7 seconds????

[atomic forum]

hordes are easy with purgatus anyway

[true shadow]

wym redundant

[olive ember]

I mean i guess you can use it as a vent purge and then rely on communion

[true shadow]

guys what the fuck are you smoking do we play different games

[obtuse moth]

why is there only one tier of blazing spirit for staves but 4 tiers for swords?

[forest coral]

thats what i want to ask lmao

[true shadow]

what difficulty do you people play on

[olive ember]

malice

duh

[forest coral]

I play damnation

almost exclusively lol

[true shadow]

do you prefer HI or normal

[olive ember]

sedition

low int

[forest coral]

Whatever comes up

so im trying to work out your builds

look

share it with me

im happy to give it a run

[olive ember]

I mean

[true shadow]

ok

[olive ember]

I run surge so

[obtuse moth]

prefer hishock unless i'm farming contracts

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/29783fa09aef22bc200c24f9df28aa5f

[olive ember]

I pug so i just click quickplay and see what I get

and yeah

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/301548e17b1bfe8d42e5eb2d3cc76844

[atomic forum]

i play damnation but i haven't done many hi intensity, and i also play with another cracked gamer with kanty lol, so hordes are even less of a concern

[true shadow]

https://gyazo.com/0a503e34aea4a062a7d3cf4c7a52dd58

[olive ember]

no communion, but KF and Quicken for Purge

huh

[forest coral]

Thank

[olive ember]

thats

unorthodox

[forest coral]

ill try it out and see how it goes

[true shadow]

i run communion sometimes, but it honestly doesnt make a huge difference

[forest coral]

thats first time i see someone choosing unstable over slaughteror

[true shadow]

uncanny

[forest coral]

Is there any reasoning behind that?

Yes uncanny

[true shadow]

well actually there's a few

for unstable you have the peril boost at all times that you want it

slaughterer requires at least one kill to ramp up

and eaasy to lose if you dont do enough damage

i.e. vs a crusher

uncanny i can literally spam my left mouse button to kill everything in a crowd

without ever stopping

(or macro it)

death of a thousand cuts.

[olive ember]

I mean... if you are killing everything in a crowd via lmb spam slaughterer will be better

[true shadow]

this saves me time vs crushers and maulers

[atomic forum]

i need to give uncanny more of a shot. i was only considering it at first for goofy fire rending shenanigans but it seems p good generally

[olive ember]

idk

[true shadow]

derpy

[forest coral]

i can see ur illisi being a boss buster tho

That is something

[true shadow]

maulers and crushers + weakspot = uncanny and they die much faster than spamming

[olive ember]

I mean

[true shadow]

then you also remember

you get the huge damage boost

because they're "unarmored"

vs your warp-boosted strike

[atomic forum]

oh hmm

[true shadow]

instead of hehe carapace

please test it

i promise you you'll see the value in it

[olive ember]

thats

not how that works i'm pretty sure but

[true shadow]

😉

[forest coral]

yup yup

it should be fun

[true shadow]

exactly keemo

like

you are inherently doing more damage because they're not unyielding or carapace

[orchid nest]

I can see your reasoning but I'd rather just have low warp res deimos with purg for the same job with the insane mobility

[true shadow]

you can run a deimos too

thats not the argument

but also uncanny deimos is CRACKED

as we discussed here earlier

[olive ember]

They're still... carapace tho...

[orchid nest]

yeah it is

[true shadow]

derpy

[olive ember]

I don't remember the

wte

[true shadow]

do you know how rending works

[olive ember]

yes

[true shadow]

rending changes their armor type

[olive ember]

no

[spice veldt]

no it doesn't

[olive ember]

thats not how rending works

[true shadow]

for damage purposes

[spice veldt]

rending is armour reduction reduction

[atomic forum]

for perk purposes?

[olive ember]

pull out the graph

here we go

[true shadow]

i will pull out the Literal Code

[olive ember]

sure

[true shadow]

had this argument before

let me go pull it up

show me your graph though sounds interesting

[true shadow]

oh, i don't mean that it changes their armor type for perk purposes

their armor type is still "carapace" in that regard

[olive ember]

I mean I'll take code but rending is armor pen, this has been what is said by like everyone, across multiple classes too

so unless none of us can read code

something isn't adding up

[spice veldt]

baited by confusing wording

[forest coral]

doesnt it just reduce the % which the damage reduc is normally negated by said armor type

[true shadow]

sorry i have severe adhd and am exhausted physically and emotionally right now

[forest coral]

well explains the passion in the build

[true shadow]

function _base_rending_damage(damage_profile, target_settings, power_level, charge_level, armor_type, is_critical_strike, dropoff_scalar, attack_type, stat_buffs, lerp_values, attacker_stat_buffs)
local rending_armor_conversion = PowerLevelSettings.rending_armor_conversion[armor_type]
local damage = _power_level_scaled_damage(damage_profile, target_settings, power_level, charge_level, rending_armor_conversion, is_critical_strike, dropoff_scalar, lerp_values, attacker_stat_buffs, attack_type)
damage = _apply_damage_type_buffs_to_damage(damage, attack_type, stat_buffs)

[forest coral]

ya did good, was informative

[true shadow]

this is from the damage calculation lua

a snippet of the really long and annoying damage calculation

the last time i had this conversation me and grawr had to spend a long ass time getting to a point where any of it made sense

[digital loom]

ok done playing with wrack and ruin

[true shadow]

because of how modular darktide is

and how many fUCKING SICRPTS

so what is "rending_armor_conversion"

well it's a table

[digital loom]

its very handy now but there's no point since a single good vet will evaporate every elite and possibly every special before you can get the bb off

[true shadow]

so lets go over to powerlevelsettings

[cyan notch]

nah

[true shadow]

[armor_types.super_armor] = armor_types.unarmored,

[armor_types.void_shield] = armor_types.unarmored,

[forest coral]

it just depends on the team comp and how cracked said vet is

[true shadow]

[armor_types.armored] = armor_types.unarmored,

[atomic forum]

ohh ok

[true shadow]

so foir damage purposes, as i intended to say

all of this is functionally Unarmored

[digital loom]

yeah, but i am going back to my regular

when one of those vets show up i'm fine just being the trash man

[atomic forum]

i was gonna say if it altered for perk value, that would be even doper. unarmored damage on my illi

[forest coral]

There are vets out there like darcy that will render your entire class irrelevant outside of killing carapace lmao

[digital loom]

i am still developing muscle memory and habits needed to reliably not explode

however

[atomic forum]

i still explode myself lmao

[digital loom]

my psyker is set up for endless horde

that's its niche

[true shadow]

the only one that isn't is "resisatant" which iirc is unyielding but uh

[digital loom]

and it also happens to be decent when pubbing

[true shadow]

yknow

resistant8***

im so fucking tired

[olive ember]

@long wharf if/when you see this msg pls verify thx thx

[digital loom]

that being said

in my opinion wrack and ruin is in a place where if you want to bb and start some fires, you can

[true shadow]

you can verify it yourself? the lua scripts arent hiding

[olive ember]

also @near wyvern I was checking your psyker guide and I noticed that you never actually went over what rending and brittleness is. You mention it in warp charge calculations and rending shockwave for psyker but yeah

[digital loom]

it works very well with wildfire

[olive ember]

and yeah ik its a compendium but yeah

meh its 3 AM i can barely read normal english

[true shadow]

im a rending shockwave

[olive ember]

much less code

[spice veldt]

so rending does more whacky stuff huh

[true shadow]

that's how rending does its damage reduction reduction

by changing the armor type

now for some reason

it does other funny haha weird shit to unyielding and unarmored

and i dont remember why exactly

i need to check the uhhhhh

traits and buffs

oh, the hell fuckery that is rending_multiplier and rending_damage yeah yeah

    damage = damage + finesse_boost_damage + backstab_damage + flanking_damage
    local armor_damage_modifier = DamageProfile.armor_damage_modifier("attack", damage_profile, target_settings, lerp_values, armor_type, is_critical_strike, dropoff_scalar, armor_penetrating, charge_level)
    local armor_damage_reduced = damage * armor_damage_modifier
    local armor_damage_damage_diff = damage - armor_damage_reduced
    rending_damage = math.max(0, armor_damage_damage_diff * rending_multiplier)```

    damage = damage - rended_reduction
    local hit_zone_damage_multiplier = _hit_zone_damage_multiplier(breed_or_nil, hit_zone_name, attack_type, damage_profile.ignore_hitzone_multiplier, damage_profile.ignore_roamer_hitzone_multipliers)
    damage = damage * hit_zone_damage_multiplier
    damage = _apply_armor_type_buffs_to_damage(damage, armor_type, attacker_stat_buffs, target_toughness_extension)
    damage = _apply_armor_type_buffs_to_damage(damage, armor_type, target_stat_buffs, target_toughness_extension)
    local is_push = damage_profile.is_push or armor_type ~= "super_armor" and armor_damage_modifier == 0```

i fucking hate reading this.

i remember why i hated this specific script now

[cyan notch]

what are you saying

where are you going with this

who are you talking to

[true shadow]

to derpy mostly

where im going is nowhere but the depths of Rending

[atomic forum]

rent asunder by Rending code

wait so rending doesn't work on pushes....? for why

[near wyvern]

Aight, I'll mention what it does when I update the guide to newest patch. Should be at some time tomorrow the latest.

[olive ember]

also yeah

looking at code at 3 AM

hurts my head

[true shadow]

ok derpy tldr

Rending moment

[true shadow]

oh that's not the full part of that, pushes are related to damage efficiency and i am nmot going down this rabbit hole at 3:19:50 am

[summer prairie]

having +unarmored on your weapon doesn't increase your damage even with rending stacks up

[true shadow]

correct

[true shadow]

it's just a check for 0 damage attacks like pushes

dw about it

[atomic forum]

oh i have not heard of "damage efficiency" before. im also going to not go down that rabbithole at 3am, so we agree on that

[true shadow]

its just damage calculation stuff its irrelevant dont worry

[atomic forum]

yeah i guess stats outside of ones you can roll/get with blessings/perks are moot

[true shadow]

damage_efficiencies is a table

for 4 types

full damage, reduced damage, negated damage,and push attacks

thats all that matters

and the rest of that annoying rabbit hole can be left buried

because it's mostly irrelevant stuff outside of hitmarkers and audio cues and blah blah blah

[atomic forum]

oh that makes sense

[olive ember]

I mean

I see how the code works

[atomic forum]

speaking of. the default hitmarker is unusable with purgatus staff

[olive ember]

idk what this means with its doing unarmoured dmg or wte

but yeah

[true shadow]

it just means what i was trying to say

[olive ember]

The TLDR is just that at full armor pen, rended_reduction = 0 so damage = damage - rended_reduction => damage = damage - 0

so you are doing full dmg

doesn't change armor types or anything

[atomic forum]

changing armor types outside of zealot ult would be neat though

[true shadow]

there was a bug with all of this which is why its relevant in discussion prior to some fixes a few patfches ago

wherein rending would actually hurt your damage output

that was a funny bug

i cant remember the life of me what it was but iirc it was a literal one-line fix

[true shadow]

iirc the conversion is literally only for

critical hit damage calculation

[olive ember]

its if you did more than 100% damage to armor as well

[true shadow]

that too yeah

[olive ember]

let me find the graph

[true shadow]

please do graph sounds interesting

[olive ember]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1067220522263380098/2q4i3pw9t7ba1.jpg

well not a graph

[true shadow]

this is outdated

[olive ember]

its a infographic?

wte it is

yeah it is

tho just remove the last part

[true shadow]

this is the bug i was talking about that got fixed

so just ignoret he last partr

haha

[olive ember]

yeah like lazorr legit just crops the bottom out

[true shadow]

remember when you could nerf your own damage with it

on plasma guns

especially

[olive ember]

the graph is over simplified tho

the code is way worse

[true shadow]

Oh yes.

Yes it is.

[olive ember]

idk how they managed to screw up something so simple

[true shadow]

I know it is. I had this discussion. It is hell.

[olive ember]

its 3 variables

dmg

armor reduction

armor reduction reduction

why

two of which are percentages

so its literally just damage * (1 - armor percentage * rending percentage) or wte

[quasi pier]

Out of curiosity how would you have done the calculation?

[olive ember]

I mean I doubt the line I just threw out is correct tbh

But I don't think its the mess that was made in code

[quasi pier]

Oh your example was not how the code is

[olive ember]

nope

[quasi pier]

Ok, i was like that seems pretty straightforward

[olive ember]

basically it calls a bunch of functions and data to make a bunch of calculations

damage = damage + finesse_boost_damage + backstab_damage + flanking_damage
local armor_damage_modifier = DamageProfile.armor_damage_modifier("attack", damage_profile, target_settings, lerp_values, armor_type, is_critical_strike, dropoff_scalar, armor_penetrating, charge_level)
local armor_damage_reduced = damage * armor_damage_modifier
local armor_damage_damage_diff = damage - armor_damage_reduced
rending_damage = math.max(0, armor_damage_damage_diff * rending_multiplier)

damage is basically just base weapon damage

armor_damage_modifier calls in a function with a bunch of inputs and spits out a number

probably a percentage

so armor damage reduced should be how much damage does that armor block

so like if armor blocked 10% of damage, and the axe did 200 damage base, then armor_damage_reduced is 20

then they have damage diff which in the example is fucking 180

Rending damage takes the reduced damage and then multiplies it by another percentage for wte reason

[quasi pier]

Which then gets increased by the rending lol

[olive ember]

local rended_reduction = armor_damage_damage_diff - rending_damage
damage = damage - rended_reduction

so basically the tldr is

damage diff is 180

but then they take this fucking rending damage and multiply it

and then they subtract rending damage from damage diff

and then they subtract damage diff from base damage

so basically, if you have a rending multiplier of 100%, in which you ignore armor

damage diff will be 180, but rending damage = math.max (0, 180*1) => 180

so when you calculate rended_reduction = 180 - 180 = 0

and then damage = damage - 0

200, 300, -100, -60, -100 + 60 = -40, 200 + 40

@true shadow yeah so basically the one line that made rending do less damage was probably just

rending_damage = math.max(0, armor_damage_damage_diff * rending_multiplier)

they probably didn't put a math.max

[true shadow]

sounds about right from memory

[olive ember]

so what happens when you have a modifier that increased damage, somewhere along the line the result is negative

[true shadow]

I'll check later

it's a pretty funny old bug though

[olive ember]

its a giant bruh moment lmao

but yeah

the entire calculation is done in such a dumb way but basically if I have a 200 base dmg weapon that does 1.5x against armor, armor_damage_reduced is actually 200 *1.5x = 300
armor damage diff becomes 200 - 300 = -100

with lets say a 60% rending multiplier

[quasi pier]

I guess that's where something like this comes into play to make sure it doesnt go negative:
rending_damage = math.max(0, armor_damage_damage_diff * rending_multiplier)

[olive ember]

yeah

because with a negative

what your end result is

-60 in my example

rending_damage is -60

so rending reduction = -100 - (-60) = -40

so when they calculate damge its damage = damage - rending reduction, or damage + 40

which sounds all nice and good cuz you know, damage +40 extra damage

until you realize that without rending you would've done +100

Alternatively they could've just done and if statement tbh

Off the top of my head

If armor_reduction >=1
damage * armor_reduction
else
damage * [1-armor_reduction*(1-rending_multiplier)]

which I guess is messier than I had originally intended but yea

probably an even easier way of doing so but yeah

basically two inverses. so if armor reduces damage by 20% then you want to do damage * 0.8

same thing with rending

anyways

its 4 AM

idk what I'm doing

[late yew]

Is this the build for surge?

[olive ember]

ima go sleep

[quasi pier]

Night

Good chat

[olive ember]

gn

oh one more thing before I go

surge is fairly flexible

I run 3/1/2/1/3/3

but deflection vs shield is personal choice

same with communion vs aura

and warp unleashed vs tranquility

[late yew]

pretty sure with flayer communion has 0 usefulness

[olive ember]

Some people run communion + WB

which I personally don't find useful

but yeah

basically do you value +8% more damage (and +12% resist if you run tranqulity) or do you prefer 15% CDR on elite kill for you and teammates in coherency + random BB every 15 ish seconds

this dynamic does change depending on staff but for surge specifically WB only rly significantly affect BB breakpoints iirc

[quasi pier]

I run 3 1 2 1 1 3 for basically everything, but like derp said you can run whatever you want and not worry much

[river sand]

its btw only 6,89% dmg cause you gotta compare it to the 16% you get from 4 stacks

[quasi pier]

You got me scratching my head on this one

[late yew]

What is WB

[quasi pier]

Warp battery

[spice veldt]

they're referring to

[river sand]

exactly

[spice veldt]

though it's still +8% damage if you take 100% to be the base

[quasi pier]

Oh yea cause you'll always have at least 4

[river sand]

but cause you get the 16% anyway its the 6.8 increse to "normal"

just beeing an annyoing smartass a bit 😉

[spice veldt]

smh my head

6.9

[hybrid solstice]

bro i literally bought a random green trauma on a whim to see if i could get anything good off a blue upgrade

[spice veldt]

very nice

[hybrid solstice]

also found a T4 unstable power for Illisi

RNG has been excellent today

[late yew]

301 power too, wtf

[radiant lance]

What do ya'll run on Void?

[radiant lance]

RNG be crazy

[late yew]

quell on weakspot + flurry

surge can also good i think?

or at least fun

[radiant lance]

Is the quell on weakspot actually necessary? Void is pretty light on peril gen anyway

[river sand]

some people say surge/nexus is shit. but i really had a blast with it in the last days.

[radiant lance]

Flurry seems mandatory to me honestly

Potentially doubles your DPS when you're at 5 stacks

[river sand]

but flurry/transfer is the easy going variant

[radiant lance]

Fair enough

[river sand]

thats a wrong thought

i doubles the charge time. but the delay between casts stays untouched

[radiant lance]

True, doesn't literally double

But like, +30% or so?

Anyway Surge & Nexus sounds like a lot of fun

[river sand]

yeah +30% roughly

if you manage to consistently animation cancel with surge/nexus (becauce you dont need to keep up flurry) its even less

which gives surge a higher dmg potential, but you gotta quell from time to time

but that gives you the opportunity for a more flexible playstyle with more mixed in melee strikes

and its oddly satisfying when it proccs on elites that get oneshot through surge

im a fan of both variants

[hybrid solstice]

well yeah it's just gonna be extracted so no love lost there

[radiant lance]

Anyone knows which breakpoints Warp Unleashed enables with Brain Burst?

[river sand]

with what

[radiant lance]

With BB, my bad.

[cold geode]

669 rerolls to get flak 25.. ugh

[river sand]

quite some

i.e. im pretty sure wiht close to 100% you can oneshot bursters

[late yew]

seems all hypers moved from psyker to vet

i am happy

[ionic needle]

That's awesome, hate running games without vets

[cyan notch]

what are hypers

[digital loom]

probably the players that zoom all over the place and suck

i like the ones that wander around and explore

its like i'm a guard goose protecting chickens from a hawk

[late yew]

... no

those who play class/weapon just because of update

like tons of posers started playing psyker after buffs

[digital loom]

they're the same thing

[spice veldt]

having renewed interest in a class after a buff is cringe indeed

[digital loom]

if you're not a streamer, sure

at least streamers are making content out of it

[thin plover]

I just started playing psyker because i maxed veteran. Any tips in gear?

[near wyvern]

Yes. It sucks until you hit 30.

[digital loom]

its not so bad if you dont go above heresy

but yeah it generally sucks until 30

[spice veldt]

all the staffs are nice, though the trauma staff (earliest one you get) is a bit bad at lower levels
duelling swords are meh, the obscurus force sword is overshadowed by the other two force swords (Deimos, illisi)

[near wyvern]

Oh yeah Illisi is a beast even with crappy stats tho

That's the horde clear force sword but don't be afraid to special heavy elites and specials

[digital loom]

gunker not so bad for leveling to 30

[radiant lance]

Honestly that's true for every class

[thin plover]

Whats the special for the illisi?

[digital loom]

becausr staves need stats to be good usually

[radiant lance]

Except for Ogryn maybe

[thin plover]

Because i like the obscurus special

[spice veldt]

illisi has the same special as the power sword

[near wyvern]

I'd say gunker is the only option for levelling since staves are ass before good stats

Except maybe purge because Soulblaze constant damage

[radiant lance]

Remember playing Zealot without double dash? Veteran without the ult extension? Yikes.

[vestal bough]

Ilisi an Surge Staff is a good combo to start with, stunlock elites an specials with staff, hordeclear with sword

[digital loom]

i think i started out with surge because my gear was crap

but i immediately switched back to trauma the moment i found a good one

none of the options are particularly bad on malice

except recon lasers

[near wyvern]

Then you gonna love Deimos which is Obscurus on steroids.

Illisi special is a single strike empower, no animation lock. Kinda like a power sword but deals more damage in single swing but there is no way to extend the effect.

[digital loom]

deimos is great

works really well with deflector

[thin plover]

I used the obscurus special to nuke assassination targets

[digital loom]

because you can scoot up to ranged and poke them to death from behind the block

[thin plover]

Oh, thats nice

[digital loom]

atm i run 1 stam 2 hp curio because i dont use kinetic deflector

but when i do use kinetic deflector i usually run 3 hp

[near wyvern]

Yeah I usually do around 17k total damage with Deimos on assassination boss. They have around 30k ish health so yahhhh. But be careful of the animation lock, at higher difficulties it can get you killed in no time.

[thin plover]

Good point. Usually we run a full squad and someone is on psyker babysitting duty. Which basically means take out the thrash

[digital loom]

meanwhile my psyker rolls around like a california forest fire

[late yew]

i am confused

does purgatus push bursters or not

[digital loom]

primary fire on both staff and flamer

[thin plover]

Yeah, sometimes in our group the psyker has to babysit the ogryn, i swear the ogryn is smarter than the player at times

[near wyvern]

@thin plover here are some teasers what you can do with psyker once you are all levelled up. The power scaling is huge, you begin as a weak shit and transition into a monster that can just pick any role they want.

One shotting mutants on Damnation with Deimos if you wanna show off to Thammer Zealots https://youtu.be/zlUkBoKxY10 , If you want to be an Ogryn just use full stamina curios and you can face tank a Daemonhost on Damnation https://youtu.be/l_ol8sMQQDc , and finally some Burster and Dog duty using Trauma staff with 200IQ standing still gameplay for showing off https://youtu.be/BlpanZx0svA

I don't have a video of gunker gameplay but shredder + Ascendant Blaze is a DPS monster and Illisi + MG IV / MG Ia is a very veteran like loadout that is great against anything the game throws at you.

[thin plover]

Allright. Facetanking a daemonhost looks like a hoot

But damn, thanks for the tips

[near wyvern]

I mean it's more of a meme than effective but hey it's possible. With Deimos you can also just out run the Daemonhost as seen on the Meemos video, all you need for that is a Deimos and a suitable area where you can run around.

Just makes killing it a bit slow

[forest coral]

its doable with most weapons if there is a box or some lockers involved oddly enough

but fs dont need it

[hollow spindle]

Or you could just be a zealot and 3-4 shot the daemonhost

[forest coral]

b o x

[clear heath]

i'm sure recon is fine on malice

i tried it on damnation and i only suffered immensely

[late yew]

as i alwatys say

[hollow spindle]

Don't worry so did your team

[late yew]

ogryn players are actually ogryns irl

[hollow spindle]

[summer prairie]

they also removed horde/specialist pacing pauses from the sniper gauntlet spawns, that could be fairly spicy now

[near wyvern]

Can confirm, we had one spamming I need ammo and running around like a headless chicke while we tag flashed an ammo stash for a minute before he finally found it. He was around 20 meters from the ammo pack during this whole time.

[near wyvern]

We had one hunting ground that turned into a quick wipe yesterday. Got horde + nurgle + dogs, all started at the same time.

[glad glade]

Do you think its worth to invest plasteel - or wait for better 1st blessing?

[idle bay]

Pure gamble. 1st Blessing is bad, and gambling a LOT of materials to get 2nd bad blessing - depressing choice

[glad glade]

depressing choice - perfect summary

i was so angry with the first blessing 😄

[tacit jungle]

yolo, just do it

[light quail]

I find shouty is usually the brainlet class, surprised to hear you get bad ogryns

either a flamer bot or lone wolf, but the times you get one who doesn't do that, they are pretty good

[stable silo]

think of it this way the crap blessing takes 1 crap blessing out of the pool

[late yew]

I really start to appreciate trauma staff

you can never switch to melee with it

universal against everything but mutants

good control of elites and good wave clear

only real downside is high peril cost

[thin plover]

Yeah, our ogryn player thinks he's very smart, but he consistenly manages to get split from the group, and then bitches and moans about being left behind

[wet belfry]

Hot take average psyker player is just a flame bot expect they have infinite ammo

[thin plover]

Our zealot just admits she's bad, but attempts to do better. The ogryn thinks he's hot shit, but manages to consistently do bad

[wet belfry]

If they didn’t have infinite ammo you’d think the same of psyker players as zealots that keep spamming flamer.

[digital loom]

hmm

i know that furries and the pride community both like psyker the most

which is interesting to me

russians usually play vet

redditors play zealot

ogryns are redditors that pretend to not go to reddit

this is based off of the streamers i've seen

which correlates because the most reliable players tend to be psykers

i know psyker is big in eu also

[halcyon creek]

This is identity theft! I’m suing

[digital loom]

during russian and american hours its vets everywhere

during eu hours its psykers and zealots everywhere

dunno what's popular in the far east

i've met more australians playing ogryn than any other class

[wet belfry]

Are you even sure if the game lets people that are NA and EU join the same game without being in a strike team?

[digital loom]

yeah because i hear canadians all the time

[wet belfry]

I think you would need a solid way to confirm it

Either through ping or confirmation from the other people in the game.

Its also possible that other people that are in a strike team could have went pubs with one of their friends that happens to be on another continent.

[twilit flicker]

What about alts? Most people have a favorite they play most of the time, you think? Or maybe not even play most of the time since the time sink per class is huge.

I only play psyker cuz I'm too lazy to put in the time for other classes, and I only play a few games a day, sometimes none. If I had a whole week (maybe two) to grind someone to 30 it sounds like it could be done.

I picked psyker cuz space wizard braniac mega mind... freak ... and that external perspective they get goes a long way into the world building. And I wouldn't have played this if it wasn't 40k.

I think most ppl play a certain class because they want to feel cool.

[thin plover]

Yeah, the timesink is real. I maxed out all characters in vermintide 1 and 2, and here i sunk in double the time purely for vet and i still have 3 classes to go

[drowsy slate]

Is warp battery bugged? Penance

[clear heath]

did the game's servers get worse lately?

[late yew]

Void vs trauma?

[late yew]

pretty sure in this game you level way faster

[hoary badge]

is wrack recommended when doing the monstrosity penance?

would a kill by soulblaze invalidate it?

[uneven drift]

Any dmg besides BB will ruin that penance. It says you need to deal 90% with BB, but i won't gamble on this personally.

[cyan notch]

doesnt proc on bosses so no point running it

[hoary badge]

d'oh, no idea why I was imagining that to be the case

thanks

[late yew]

that penance so stupid

[sick light]

Ya just solo it using BB to be sure, dont leave it to chance

[vagrant hollow]

can trauma staff hit weakpoint with charged shots?

[drowsy slate]

Need to find a group that lets me solo a monstrosity 😦

[vagrant hollow]

just asking because this showed up in store if its worth

[cyan notch]

no

[vagrant hollow]

so this buy for blessing should be better right

[late yew]

no

this one is bad

the staff is worth just for the flurry

[vagrant hollow]

and sword?

[late yew]

...

reread

[vagrant hollow]

i wanted bloodthirsty for illisi

[late yew]

Never tried it, but why would you have it

there are better options

[cyan notch]

its usable on illisi

get it if you like it

[fallow meadow]

Though on "wrack and ruin" change?

[leaden thunder]

It's better, but warp unleashed makes it a hard thing up pick

[atomic forum]

Warp flurry is worth picking up

That sword is unfortunately bricked

Nice stats tho

[void mural]

W&R needs to do somewhere in 8-10 soulblaze stacks to even be considered compared to other stuff on that tier, like warp unleashed. Or it needs to be reworked. It has too strict a condition for the effect it provides, especially considering the amount of time that the soulblaze stacks take to kill fodder

[fallow meadow]

I think FS can just remove the elite requirement and it will be fine?
Giving that you BB is slow and you can only do 3 on a roll on base don't sounds op.

Further more, fodders like to spread out after active anyway.

[atomic forum]

wrack and ruin seems like it COULD be fun in high intensity with kinetic barrage, but also i could literally just use my purgatus staff on hordes and then slap big guys with deimos so it's just not my thing. and def not my thing when using shredder cuz, lol brainbursting

[near wyvern]

It needs to be on hit. There is no point in tweaking the stacks when you have to race for kills on targets that need to be dealt with asap. Heck, even a gunker can gun them down faster than using BB.

[atomic forum]

https://youtu.be/FZC1XWHL8TU this vid does mention something interesting though, using wrack and ruin and then ulting to hit gunners with 0 warp charges, which still stacks to 5 to burn them out in Damnation, but you can do it with 4 and weapon shenanigans anyway

[river sand]

i think W&R coold be good for a lazy-ass gun-psyker build where you dont wanna spend time on generating peril for the little extra dmg

[atomic forum]

i mean you still always get 10% extra damage right? i feel like that's still more useful than wrack and ruin

for shredder gameplay anyway. the only reason wrack and ruin would ever proc for me on that build is by accident through kinetic flayer

[near wyvern]

No. You don't build gunker for that extra +15% from WU. You build it around the +10% and warp stacks. You can make MG Ia into a faster firing and more stabile XII.

Even without peril

111111 works wonders, just saying

[river sand]

then there is no need for w&r

[near wyvern]

WAR is awesome when it happens, the problems arise from the condition when it happens. 2 veterans in the team and you can only get like 30% of your BBs off, and those are on crushers (not really affected by soulblaze), Bulwakrs and Reapers. On top, you are missing on the instant one shots on Flamers, Bursters (and Ragers) for which the first two are actually very important.

Psyker is one of the only things that can reliably peek a flamer that is flaming through a choke.

[atomic forum]

tbh just start right click charging when you have vets around

[fallow meadow]

I used w&r on a purge/BB build. It feels good to see the extra burning, but that is more of a firework show than useful.

[river sand]

btw pygex i may missunderstood you, but it is on hit and not on kill

[near wyvern]

It needs to be on hit, not on elite/special hit. Any hit.

[atomic forum]

yes it is on hit, hit a mauler twice and it procs twice

oh

yeah that would probably be fine

[fallow meadow]

I remember that it use to be on kill. But my memory is very foggy.

[near wyvern]

If it was on any hit, you could target that puny mob since you know the vet is gonna one shot that gunner with XII or a hellbore anyways and get some flames ticking on those grouped up ranged units.

[near wyvern]

Yes it used to be on elite/special kill, they changed it then to elite/special hit and then they upped the stacks from 3 to 4. They gotta change it to on any hit and then we may have something usable. At least it will be a lot easier to balance at that point since you can get it out more reliably.

[atomic forum]

i swear remember reading it as on kill, but i literally never used it because i read it and said "this is bad unless there's something I'm missing something" (and it's still kinda bad). it definitely seems like a good option for very SAFELY doing damage, so that might have some merit, but not worth my talent slot for my playstyle

[river sand]

i still think every staff should deal up to 4 stacks soulblaze depending on chargetime by default

[near wyvern]

Nah

[atomic forum]

that would be weird

why would purgatus exist then

[near wyvern]

Just make Blazing Spirit do stacks based on charge time instead of crits

[river sand]

maybe ok too

[near wyvern]

But it should definitely be like max 3 stacks per full charge

[fallow meadow]

It is good that Bulwakrs can be kill quite effective with it, but that is all I got for w&r

[near wyvern]

Cause with max burn, purgatus applies stacks every 0.33 seconds so 3 stacks per second. A max charge rate trauma is something like 1.2 seconds so having it apply 4 stacks on the 8.6m RADIUS circle on top of the epicenter direct damage would be way over tuned.

[near wyvern]

Or you just take WU and kill them with 2 BBs or 1 BB into Illisi special heavy head.

It's a big fat head and they open their arms wide after the BB so hard to miss

Jump for style points and shout fore

[atomic forum]

does illisi not slice through the shield anyway when charged? i thought it did when i was using it

[ionic needle]

Wait... The trauma radius is 8.6m fully charged?

That sounds like a lot

[atomic forum]

trauma radius can get quite large. i need to use that staff more it's kinda goofy

it also explodes ogryns quite frequently and viscerally so thats fun

[gloomy gulch]

well then thats a good start

[near wyvern]

Yes, radius for the epicenter radius is like 3. something but the whole explosion current max is around 8.6m and 100% roll is set to 10m. That is, the current max diameter is 17.2m

Blazing Spirit Warp Nexus Trauma puts on a pretty light show just saying.

[fallow meadow]

You need a good staff to start on trauma. A half ass one is just unusable.

base stat I mean.

[ionic needle]

Oh okay so the epicenter radius is the circle on the ground then?

[gloomy gulch]

cut off the name oups

[near wyvern]

If you want a blue fire trauma you need as close to 80% charge speed and max radius

[ionic needle]

I can imagine the circle is 6m across, but no way is it 17.2m across

[atomic forum]

high warp res actually sucks on deimos imo but that's such a small gripe for an otherwise great roll

[near wyvern]

Yes. That's where the direct damage is applied. The rest is not visible in the UI but deals like 20 to 3 damage. The trick is that when you crit with Blazing Spirit, everything that gets touched by it will get lit.

[ionic needle]

Alright, that makes sense

[static agate]

How does Terrifying Barrage works? For example it says "Supress Enemies within 6m Radius on Close Range kill." Is that 6m from where the enemie died, or 6m around me?

I have it on Trauma staff, trying to decide if its worth it

[leaden thunder]

around you

and no it's not worth it generally

[atomic forum]

in my experience terrifying barrage does nothing, but i haven't tried it outside of purgatus

[leaden thunder]

supression doesn't effect a lot of melee enemeis

[near wyvern]

It works so that you hold X on the item in your inventory or go to Hadron and say they made a mistake

[ionic needle]

Suppression is weird

[fallow meadow]

Blazing Spirit worth using on trauma? I like firework show.

[near wyvern]

@static agate In reality tho, LMB already has built in supression and the stagger from RMB overrides the supression with the shorter stagger (assuming enemy not flying around), so meh

[ionic needle]

Would be cool to run trauma with blazing spirit, crit blessing, 5% crit, Wildfire and AB

[near wyvern]

It's not top DPS (Inner Tranq Flurry Trauma is) BUT it's the best all around Trauma set up especially if you want that WU for the BB breakpoints. Also, if you are contesting for DPS you are likely gimping your Zealots / Ogryns since those dudes need to be able to hit stuff to keep up their sustain.

With Spirit Nexus trauma you can be more flexible. You don't need to hit with the epicenter at all times, you can intentionally target it on your veteran instead to keep mobs off him while staggering enemies for your Zealots and Ogryns, and still dealing damage with the outer blast. You can also deal with ranged.

The trick is you really have to have Blazing Spirit with Warp Nexus 4 on the Trauma and roll a +5% crit chance perk on it as well. The correct feats are 311112 or 311212 depending on if you want to run KD or KS. Constantly keep yourself at 80-100 peril and quell cancel your recovery animations. If you see a mixed horde, wait for a max charge staff proc on the elites and then press F to delete all except Crushers, since that's 9 freaking stacks of Soulblaze.

[near wyvern]

Wildfire is bugged and broken AF please don't use it yet.

Broken as in not working correctly thus extremely underwhelming

[vestal raven]

sad face

[fallow meadow]

Like the concept of wildfire. So sad that it do practically nothing.

[wispy robin]

Aight siblings, here is a tough one. Which one is better?

[near wyvern]

In case you are wondering what's wrong with Wildfire, here is the list:

[leaden thunder]

you submit a bug report?

[near wyvern]

ComissarTyr or someone else already made one some time ago

But no one has mentioned the spreading from bodies yet

[leaden thunder]

hopefully it sees some fixes

it's a really interesting talent

[near wyvern]

The concept is interesting yes. I am a bit sceptical if the numbers are good even after the fixes but that's just some number tweaking. So we probably have to wait a long time before it's good.

[hearty python]

@drowsy slate I don't think so, but maybe. I got it a while ago kinda by accident, I was just trying to keep up the charges for Inner Tranquility and damage bonus and got the penance.

@wispy robin take the one on the left, replace shockwave with transfer peril and unarmored for flak armored and go to town

[wispy robin]

Transfer peril works on m2 for Trauma?

[void mural]

Agreed, but it still needs to have its stacks applied increased because of how soulblaze is exponential, and finally doing around 40 - 60 damage per tick at 8-10 stacks might actually be usable. Doing 12 damage per tick is just not worth it because of how long it takes to kill stuff, so they'll probably get killed an ally before the dot has time to tick for a significant amount of time.

[hearty python]

@wispy robin didn't realize it was Trauma, looked like a Void. In that case I don't know as I don't play Trauma.

[void mural]

I still really feel like a ton of problems around dots and soulblaze could be fixed if they just changed soulblaze damage to work linearly with the number of stacks, so that low numbers of soulblaze stacks were actually worth considering.

They'd of course have to rebalance the numbers each source applies, but it'd make soulblaze actually desirable at less than 8 stacks

[hearty python]

@wispy robin either would be pretty good, and since they're Trauma I'd still keep the left Since it has that maniac perk locked instead of the ranged vs elites, and roll for flak which will together cover most elites then try to upgrade rending to nuke the armor of crushers and maulers in 1 hit you'll just be a little slower to quell but if you have a high quell sword you would switch and switch back

[cloud sequoia]

good emprah gift

[sick isle]

lightning staff boring. whats dump stats for trama/purge staffs

[river sand]

@near wyvern your trauma nexus/blazing whats would be your favorite perk except 5 crit

[hearty python]

@void mural I find 6 stacks pretty useful, and that's the most I can get off AB, but definitely feels like a waste below 5 on damnation

[river sand]

trauma dont really has a dump stat

[runic python]

tf kind of math is fatshark using?

[river sand]

i think perfect one would be 80 dmg 80 charge 75 rest

[river sand]

?

[runic python]

nvm, I dislike that 80% is the cap when the line goes to 100. The 10 base stat diff doesn't match the % differences.

[drowsy slate]

100 is for red weapons

[atomic forum]

warp resistance for sure on purgatus

you do not care about warp resistance at all in most cases. in fact lower is better with my purgatus staff build as I want to build peril and can't do so easily with my deimos

[cyan notch]

u can if u qq

[atomic forum]

idk what that abbreviation is

oh

i see, yeah, i do that but it's just like

so much more annoying than illi

[hollow current]

quell speed is about the only one but yeah, they're all kinda important. Though damage is only really important for trauma's left click and kinda a dump stat.

[atomic forum]

yeah i was gonna say it might actually be damage for trauma, since like. it explodes pretty much everything already and don't you get the same damage mulitiplier as what warp unleashed gives you?

er, same as in it's the same type

i haven't played around enough on trauma to know for sure though, still trying to get a serviceable roll

[void mural]

Yeah, but anything below 6 is either marginally useful, or entirely useless.

[atomic forum]

for purgatus I 100% think it's warp resistance though. with how you actually use purgatus in a lot of scenarios, you're typically just holding it max charge and fishing for combat meditation procs until you have to blow your ult. plus if you're just feathering it at max anyway (even stopping to quell back to 80), warp resistance does nothing

[granite dust]

Okey ... time to rebless one shit ... hivemind, which one?

[hollow current]

High damage is nice so you can one shot head shot the unarmored dregs or the bruisers. But for the secondary, yeah. You're doing around 5% more damage with a max damage roll vs a modest damage dump'd roll like here.

The left one does 420 damage vs unarmored heads with 6 warp stacks vs the right doing 389 with 6 warp stacks. 400 is the break point.

[hollow current]

I'd change executor to Slaughterer or something.

[shadow wigeon]

Do you benefit from Communion from other psykers even if you don’t spec it yourself?

[hollow current]

You need to spec into it.

[shadow wigeon]

Well then I was getting WCs out of thin air

[void mural]

Kinetic flayer, or ascending blaze?

[shadow wigeon]

AB specced but I used only melee when I noticed it happening. Kept happening with no other effects for quite awhile.

I am using wildfire but I hasn’t applied blaze for over a minute while testing. There’s a chance the blaze carried far far away but I really doubt it.

[void mural]

Yeah, soul blaze from any source can trigger AB warp charges

So, another psyker can apply a soul blaze, and it can trigger your AB

[shadow wigeon]

Even if you don’t put out any yourself?

[void mural]

Yes

[shadow wigeon]

Wild

[void mural]

Also, IIRC, soul blaze doesn't need to kill the target to trigger AB, it just needs to be on the target when they die

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah that one I have seen people go back and forth on, my impression in practice is that does not work, but it’s so hard to tell.

[cyan notch]

yea just equipping ab will let other psykers give u stacks if they are blazing it up too

[shadow wigeon]

I wonder if the math is shared or additive. Like is it a 10% change across all psykers or can we prof each other. I got quite a few stacks of that guy and there weren’t that many enemies.

[void mural]

I mean, it should be pretty easy to test. Just go into meatgrinder with a purg staff, soulblaze some targets, then kill them with your melee

[cyan notch]

theres no back and forth you dont need enemies to die by dot just have stacks when they die

weve been over this tens of times in this channel by now

[shadow wigeon]

Just did 100 kills, 0 stacks.

I guess I'd need to see someone actually proc a kill off it, each time I've tried it does not proc.

#101 did it. Maybe just really unlucky. or some weird timing.

[cyan notch]

#psyker-class message

scroll up a bit if u want

its all there

[summer prairie]

changing talents in the grinder can be wonky

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah just a bad luck I guess. I'm 6/150.

I wonder if AB proc is shared (like Communion) or additive. I was trying to run without Communion and stacks from just AB were pretty light, but there were other psykers.

[summer prairie]

Here's a video of getting a stack after the SB stack has just expired (I think there's a 1s window after expiration): https://streamable.com/3gjeli

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah I just had a bad run of luck testing.

I wanted to see if Communion could be skipped (w/o Flayer) on Purg, and it seems a bit too light to me to just get stacks off AB?

[cyan notch]

yes i think so too

i like communion for more reliable charges

but u can always manual bb

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah and conversely it was too hard tog et aura benefits anyway

I'm going Focused/Flurry Purg for constant aggressive flaming... no time for BB unless its a crushy boi.

It's my favourite purg build now. Focused is under rated, I think.

[karmic copper]

@shadow wigeon had a few convo last week about trauma and focused... unfortunately i don't have the right staff atm. Cant count how many times ive been fucked knocked out of cast

I use it on surge 100%%%

[devout belfry]

Best staff is gun shaped.

[void mural]

It depends on what you're doing. If you AB a lot, unless you're using a lot of purge, you might not build enough warp charges, since you're constantly dumping them into AB. If you're just keeping stacks, then not taking communion is more reasonable

I kinda see 3 main ways to go about handling warp charges and their build up:
Quicken - just BB 2 or 3 times depending on if you took WB or not, and constantly have your F available
AB - take communion if you plan on rarely BBing, so that you have constant warp charge generation to use on you F
KB - never dump your stacks, maintain 5 or 6 at all times through BB

[near wyvern]

Yes, there is a 1 second window. They added it in patch # 5 or 6 with the staff fixes

Cause some staff attacks were preventing it from proccing

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah I might try it on Surge now. Generally my positioning is safer with Surge so it's rare to get staggered, but it does happen.

What I'm loving it on Purg is how aggressive you get with it. It's so fun. And keep more uptime.

[shadow wigeon]

Quicken to me feels like a trap. I prefer 6 stack tranquil on surge, and it doesn't make sense on Purg - you can quell other ways and not give up the damage from AB/KB. Void seems silly as well, but im ignorant to trauma builds.

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah specifically on Purg staff, ABing as often as possible. Stacks from AB alone are just too few.

[void mural]

I don't really use quicken for the CD reduction much, I use it for quick warp charge building on my shredder pistol gunker. On that build, I honestly wish I could get rid of the warp charge dump part of quicken, and just have the double charge building part

[shadow wigeon]

I think it's neat for melee build, but autopistol without AB degeneracy? What kind of gentleman are you.

Are you trying to say you're better than us?

[proven raven]

I take Quicken and Kinetic Flaying on Gunker. Having my push up all the time is the shit.

[void mural]

Eh, shredder pistol is great without AB soulfire charge dumping

[shadow wigeon]

I should try it again sometime

The AB meme was fun, but I didn't give it a chance after that

[void mural]

I know there's some buff stacking nonsense with auto pistols, but building warp charges on gunker, without any supporting BB talents is such a slog IMO

I'd rather just have a good pistol with pinning fire and warp charge damage bonus

[shadow wigeon]

It's less frenetic for sure. But woth trying to auto pistol AB madness before it gets nerfed - or maybe it's too rare to get nerfed.

It's pretty busted

[void mural]

I already have illisi for horde clear, so it's not like I need AB for that, and shredder pistol is fantastic for single target

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah it's more like a horde evaporator. You'll get all your stacks back, but you're waiting for AB CD to do it again.

[void mural]

How do you build warp charges on that build?

[shadow wigeon]

Ab and Comm. You'll be at max. the cooldown on AB is the limiter.

w/ battery

[void mural]

But you barely have any soulfire to proc AB warp charges

[shadow wigeon]

I wonder.... if Wildfire could be abused with that build. But the AB cooldown is the worst part.

[void mural]

Every time I've AB'd hordes, I barely get any warp charges

And I hate depending on RNG communion for warp charges

[shadow wigeon]

huh. I would say it's very frequent to get 6 charged back from one horde blast. But... I'm usually saving it for the biggest hordes. It's a vanity build. Works better on hi-int.

And it can fall apart and you're BBing to get stacks up.

[void mural]

Yeah, that's the part I don't like about depending on AB without a purge staff

[shadow wigeon]

Evaporiting a horde in 1 second is fun though

Maybe 2 seconds...

[void mural]

Eh, I can do that with illisi, or if I spam shredder into a crowd

[shadow wigeon]

Well, that's the difference between horde clear and horde evaporate. Plus ideally you're getting pinning stacks off the elites while you do it.

It is fun, I recommend trying it sometimes. Just be sure you're at max stacks when you AB. It can be done with 4 stacks as well.

The buff from pistol is so broken.

[void mural]

Eh, all the examples I've seen of the pinning fire AB interaction aren't significantly faster than me just taking an illisi to the horde

Faster, yes, enough to be significant for what you give up? Ehhhh

[shadow wigeon]

Well, the speed you can't really compare. Even at 4 stacks you can kill a horde while you are off doing something else. The total burst dps is something else.

You don't actually attack the horde

It's just a burst damage playstyle. It's underwhelming if there aren't alot of enemies, but still fun.

Waiting on AB cooldown is the weaklink.

[void mural]

I'm aware of that, but then you make up for it in downtime BBing things to build warp charges

I'd rather have consistency in warp charge building, and strength in illisi and shredder pistol from warp charge dmg bonus

Also warp unleashed helps too

I play that build to stay at high peril intentionally

[shadow wigeon]

Yeah it's much more stable. Just took the wildness away of those AB massacres. Walk-off KO's/homerun when you zap a horde and then just leave to go pistol things.

I'll try QK gunker sometime tho. I ran pistol/AB a lot already, got my fill.

[void mural]

The build does have the downside of F discharging your warp charges, bringing you back to 0 and have to rebuild them, but it's not as much of a big deal, since it's just 3 BBs

It kinda makes me almost ignore my F when playing with that build, but you can use it twice quick if you need to as well

[olive ember]

people are using quicken now unironically

the darkest of timelines

[shadow wigeon]

Thing is, when I hear that... I would rather just use KB for big targets, Communion will probably keep me at ~5 WC regularly.

[void mural]

I mean, there's the perma BB build, which, while I don't think it's anything spectacular, it does actually work

[shadow wigeon]

Who wants to BB at regular speed more than they have to. What a curse.

[void mural]

Yeah, that's a fair way to play shredder gunker. Just keep your charges up the whole match

[shadow wigeon]

QK to me just seems like it saves a tiny bit of management, but you give up lots of power. Either from AB or KB.

Maybe the push is under rated, though.

[void mural]

Yeah, it's definitely the weakest of the three

It's the only one that doesn't actually increase your dps

[shadow wigeon]

On another note... Wildfire on Purg is really growing on me. I think I enjoy it more than Battery, at least with Slaughter/Unstable.

[void mural]

I mean, it's kinda made for purge

IMO, soulblaze on everything besides purge is kinda lacking

[shadow wigeon]

It's pretty close. Pumping Wildfire w/ slaughter and unstable does make it seem pretty cool though. Battery is really stable though, and doesn't need as much pumping.

[void mural]

The problem with everything involved on soul blaze that's not purge, is that the inciting attack is likely to kill whatever you hit, meaning it's likely you'll not get enough time to get value out of soul blaze, especially with low stack number being rather low dps

Like with illisi bloodthirsty + soublaze on crit. Why would you wait for the wildfire spreaded soul blaze to do damage, when you could just attack again to kill them?

[near wyvern]

Trauma works with Blazing Spirit and Warp Nexus 4.

[void mural]

I guess, but at that point, you're already using a trauma staff. Why not just use the staff for horde clear?

Also, then you're relying on crits on a non-crit weapon

[near wyvern]

Because Ogryns and Zealots need to hit stuff / be near enemies in order to keep up their sustain. With Blazing Spirit Trauma you can protect your vet + yourself while staggering for your front line and dealing surprisingly good DPS instead of selflessly padding scoreboard and throwing shit around.

[void mural]

I'm not sure why trauma would conflict with ogryns and zealots?

[near wyvern]

? With Warp Nexus 4 and +5% crit chance I should be around 30% crit since it's piss easy to constantly pump between 80-100 peril

[leaden thunder]

throws around the horde

[near wyvern]

Because if you blast mobs from them they don't get hits -> they don't get toughness -> they get trickled down by ranged / random melee hits

[void mural]

Sure, I guess, but it's still every third attack that it happens

[near wyvern]

And with Nexus Spirit Trauma you fish for proc on elite packs, then press F and only Crushers remain

[void mural]

Don't throw horde behind your teammates? Utilize the front half of the trauma staff marker to throw all enemies in the same direction

[near wyvern]

Yes, which means around once every 5 seconds

[void mural]

Not without flurry? Pretty sure you'll have longer cast times without it. But I guess it's a build if you can get the right staff for it

[near wyvern]

And I have 79% max radius on that thing so the circle is around 8.5m radius or something, 17m ish diameter

[near wyvern]

Quell cancel is the friend and I have like 79% charge rate

[void mural]

Huh?

[near wyvern]

You can cancel the after cast animation by going into quell and you can immediately stop it to cast again, causes you to skip the after cast animation almost completely

@void mural extreme example with a macro https://youtu.be/kaF6_PMLkgY

But with Trauma I don't use a macro, I have muscle memory for it

Cause some times you want to wait a bit to let the enemies walk in

Trauma has like 1.2 or something charge seed with 80% charge rate

[digital loom]

traumas good with soul

if they ever change it so shockwave cant apply fire, it will become useless immediately though

[near wyvern]

Shockwave apply fire? You mean AB?

[digital loom]

yes, blue fire

i'm tired of pretending they're too different things

one is space magic and the other is ogryn juice

[near wyvern]

The ability is Psykinetic's Wrath, the feat that enables soulblaze on it is Ascendant Blaze and there is more to it, so they are two different things

[void mural]

Huh, so with trauma quell canceling you can skip the staff thrusting animation?

[near wyvern]

I can try to see if my montage has an example hold on

[digital loom]

you set things on fire and they die

[near wyvern]

Damn did my montage with flurry so don't have video of quell cancelling

@void mural I can clip quell cancel example on trauma for you tomorrow if you want

[void mural]

Sure

[worn bolt]

bruh.....

is it worth keeping that staff and using it despite having to have terrifying barrage?
or the backup I found where I Can jsut replace transfer with warp flurry

[shadow wigeon]

I don't play trauma at all. Is it a meme build or actually competitive?