psyker-class

[ornate hamlet]

So hard to actually play a Space Witch™️ early on unless constantly brainbursting

[mighty pike]

I would never like to level a class to 30 ever again

which ones? Psyker penances are [savant voice] exceptional-ly difficult

[orchid venture]

Kill 5 elites/specials in 12 seconds with bb, and kill a monstrosity with only bb.

the latter i just haven't had very many matches with ogryn in them, and even less with a slab shield, and even less where a dh spawns

The one time i did, it was a premade of 3 doing penances for the other psyker

[mighty pike]

both of these are Heresy-necessary, one way or another

[orchid venture]

Yeah, I've still got about 35 missions left until I've done 100, so I've got time till the last hat

[mighty pike]

have you tried the looking for game channels?

[orchid venture]

Nah, not yet

[ornate hamlet]

Also missing pick-n-mix, mainly for lack of trying. Is it actually hard with premades?

[sharp jackal]

No, with premade you can "stash" them.

[mighty pike]

as in keep them around and corral them?

[orchid venture]

In pubs you just have to get lucky that 5 spawn, and that you can kill them before the 3 veterans with itchy trigger fingers do

[sharp jackal]

take force sword -> go around and collect them like pokemons by pushing with it -> kill when 5

[mighty pike]

if you two want to do a game now I can be a third?

[orchid venture]

Nah I'm not at home at the moment

[sharp jackal]

I did it as one psyker did just hold them in the corner with force sword

[orchid venture]

I got 4/5 on pick n mix though, one time

[mighty pike]

i got the malleus monstrosum penance completed from 0-100 until the zealot got the last hit for some goddamn reason

[meager magnet]

Havnt run purgatus psyker yet, emperor just gifted me this, does it have any potential?

[orchid venture]

N once i get 100 matches done and get all the gear, I can move on to Ogryn and get all those

[meager magnet]

What perks / feats should I get? The run and gun seems useless?

[sharp jackal]

Horrible blessings

[manic needle]

Blessings are unfortunate, cloud radius too

but the burn stat is good

[mighty pike]

340 😦 keep it and try it out though, see if you like using it

[stray pond]

Run 'n' Gun is slightly more justifiable on Purgatus

[sharp jackal]

burn and cloud matters

[elfin crystal]

terrifying barrage isn't bad tbh

[meager magnet]

Ive heard terrifying os "ok" on purgatus

[sharp jackal]

Purgatus has it as "stock" kinda

crit + charge speed are BIS imo

[elfin crystal]

kinda, but from experience, terrifying stop the annoying random zombies that somehow still decide to walk to you

[meager magnet]

so swithc run and gun and the stamina one and its decent but not a nerdgasm

[sharp jackal]

tbh purgatus is not that blessing dependent

[elfin crystal]

which is really nice on damnation where you want everything to just stop moving

it is not, but i just like it

[austere estuary]

crit is very good on purgatus as a blessing and perk for the double stacks

[elfin crystal]

yeah defo crit i would use as well

[austere estuary]

I love the positive feedback loop of purgatus, flame and warp charges

[elfin crystal]

it's what i'm adding to mine when they add crafting

[austere estuary]

this is my current purgatus

looking forward to replacing barrage with something else

[sharp jackal]

thats gold

[mighty pike]

11% warp resistance ahaha

[sharp jackal]

stats wise

[austere estuary]

if it'll let me, I'll put the flame stack on crit

[sharp jackal]

you cant

[meager magnet]

I'd Assume the Re-bless is opened in the next big patch, whenever they decide to roll one out?

[austere estuary]

definitely

imo

[mighty pike]

maybe? you'd hope

[sharp jackal]

https://darkmass.gg/weapons/ranged/Force Staff (Purgatus)

[austere estuary]

they originally said end of Decemberght ri

typing

[mighty pike]

it can get Sustained Fire? 😐

[austere estuary]

these pages still don't show surge

lemme check if they updated it though

[elfin crystal]

using this, but ima yeet focused off the moment i can

[austere estuary]

oh they did

that's nice

[elfin crystal]

euh i don,t think those blessing are right

[austere estuary]

aaah! focused that's the one

focussed is nice

so annoying when you get clipped right before you were about to fire

and there goes your whole cast

[elfin crystal]

oh is it?, i've not noticed much diufference

[sharp jackal]

yea, thinking about getting it instead of crit

[elfin crystal]

oh yeah fair enough

[austere estuary]

only really void doesn't suffer much from being hit

since it just fires

[mighty pike]

if you do yor let moust burst or swap to weapona nd shove and swap back normally you can get into doing your full charged streams without interrruption

[austere estuary]

but on trauma and purgatus where you lose the cast entirely

ugh

[elfin crystal]

yeah that's fair actually

[uncut hamlet]

It's a nice qol but I'd prefer nexus or smth if I could get it

[austere estuary]

I think on purg I'll keep my nexus and add focus

on voidstrike I wanna get nexus and surge, and then roll crit and get an axe with both all or nothing and shred

[uncut hamlet]

Why all or nothing

[austere estuary]

between all that we'd be around the 50% crit chance mark and blasting off double

more power

[uncut hamlet]

There's another blessing that gives

[austere estuary]

works on eevrything

including BB

[uncut hamlet]

Up to 20% power

Just whacking

[fast swan]

transfer peril is so good on void as your dps without having to reload is much higher

[uncut hamlet]

Ahh, yea ig for bb

[austere estuary]

and also staff in general

and permanent

[uncut hamlet]

But it's only max 4% scaling with stamina

[austere estuary]

transfer peril is nice but 25% crit when crits fire 3 shots

5% with stam at t4

[fast swan]

how u get 25% crit chance?

[austere estuary]

and that is enough to make bulwarks 2 shots instead of 3 on damnation

if you also get 6 warp charges

[uncut hamlet]

I see, that is pretty nice

[austere estuary]

25% from t4 nexus

[uncut hamlet]

One of the very few actual uses for all or nothing

[austere estuary]

well, 20-25% if riding high peril

[fast swan]

ah i see, but aint that only at super high peril, which allows u to only get 1-2 shots off?

[austere estuary]

another chunk from shred on melee

riding super high peril is pretty fine tbh, given we can overshoot near 100 safely

more peril bang for your buck in a way

same goes for trauma and purgatus, only need to quell for a brief moment to get to ~82 peril, and then you're good for a full charge and fire

and if you proc and freebie 10% quells, all the better

[fast swan]

i see, i think it will be nice to have those crits at super high pril, but your staff only really comes online at max peril, whcih only allows you to shoot once or twice, whereas a transfer peril allows you to shoot as long as you hit heads

[austere estuary]

with the up to 15% damage bonus on force weps feat as well, it's quite nice

[fast swan]

just a more exciting playstyle if you can hit them crits i suppose

*headshots

[austere estuary]

transfer is amazing for qol and ease of play

I love it

[fast swan]

same

[austere estuary]

though less exciting at its peak

[fast swan]

transfer peril should be a feat tbh

[austere estuary]

transfer peril on trauma should be a punishable crime

[fast swan]

true lol

[manic needle]

Maybe but its also one of the few interesting staff blessings

So many of them are boring

[sharp jackal]

using trauma in its current state should be a crime 😄

[austere estuary]

surge is great and as explained could be insanely good

just needs a LOT of setup in build

trauma is perfectly usable

[fast swan]

yea all staffs should just have a "X% chance to apply soulbaze on fully charged attack" for synergy

[uncut hamlet]

I go high peril builds with trauma sometimes

It's usable for sure

[austere estuary]

it's the weakest staff overall but

[uncut hamlet]

Not optimal at all but

[austere estuary]

yeah

[sharp jackal]

Trauma seems to get in the way with the stagger

[uncut hamlet]

Explosions are fun

[austere estuary]

trauma stagger requires careful usage

[sharp jackal]

raggdolls stuff around istead of killing it

[fast swan]

it feels so good but its a damn shame it does no damage and u can only use it twice befroe quelling

[austere estuary]

can use it to bunch enemies too if you want, and can evaporate freely in doorways/tunnels

[uncut hamlet]

Yea the peril cost for its negative damage really sucks

[austere estuary]

the other strength of trauma is it doesn't care what it's hitting in a crowd - it'll damage and control anything

[sharp jackal]

to that`s a lot to ask, purg and surge just kill

[austere estuary]

surge doesn't kill anything eevr

that's its one weak point

[sharp jackal]

or CC rather in case of surge

[austere estuary]

godlike CC but no damage at all and suffers vs large horde numbers

[sharp jackal]

its fine VS armor, it has bonus dmg vs carapace

[austere estuary]

warpflame CCs infinite amounts of horde and some weaker elites, and does pretty solid damage

[manic needle]

Scab Shooters and Bruisers, Ragers

[austere estuary]

slow to kill them, not one shotting a rager in a cast and surge casts are the slowest of all staves

[sharp jackal]

depends, you can cancel animation

[mighty pike]

rather take a gun than a surge staff to a public game 😒

[manic needle]

Not really necessary to one shot, you deal good damage and stun them

And Scab shooters and bruisers simply melt

[sharp jackal]

on T5 when you usually have good teammates it is very good

[austere estuary]

my point is its damage isn't good, it's decent at best

[manic needle]

Its fantastic for killing shooters behind cover in particular

[elfin crystal]

you're supposed to spam surge not charge it

[manic needle]

Its pretty specialized damage but when it hits, it hits well

If anything the problem with surge damage is how niche it is

Unarmored, Infested, and Maniacs together make up such a large percentage of enemies

[austere estuary]

it's fantastic CC but killing power and vs horde is terrible comparative to all the other staves, just that the CC is so good people like it

meanwhile void is very flexible

[mighty pike]

its a tactical weapon, not one for mass destruction

[austere estuary]

decent CC, great range, can horde clear reasonably provided not too open

and pretty alright damage

and easiest peril management

[sharp jackal]

Void is good, average in every aspec

cool too

[elfin crystal]

i think void runs out of steam too fast in the higher difficulties or there's simply too much stuff

[austere estuary]

void in damnation needs team to make sure and funnel a bit to get the most from it

[elfin crystal]

you really want stuff stun locked when a 5th mutant decided to crash your party

[austere estuary]

makes rooms like big open sand arena horrible though

[manic needle]

Animation cancelling on voidstrike seems pretty fantastic

I just dont do it because I assume its a bug that will be fixed

[sharp jackal]

shame we have only a couple of staff`s. anyway good night its to late for me. cheers

[austere estuary]

nn

[elfin crystal]

night

Void is probably great, but anything with a requisite, you're probably not going to get sadly.

[austere estuary]

Trauma could end up stupidly OP with very few tweaks to its numbers, curious to see what happens (or doesn't ) with it

[elfin crystal]

yeah it'd be nice to have more staves

[austere estuary]

inb4 tf2 medic staff

german psyker and bodyguard ogryn

[stone quest]

Isn't Trauma bugged to do like half its damage though?

[manic needle]

Imagine if we had more staves that WEREN'T copy/pasted from Vermintide

[austere estuary]

if trauma's damage gets doubled it'll be crazy

like, bananas

charged nuke is 1.3s for a ssizable aoe of 400-500+

that doesn't really care about any armor

[abstract cedar]

Trauma damage isn't an issue as much as the AoE size & charge time

Imo

[austere estuary]

if it was 1000, hoo

charge time is fastest of all staves tho

if you have the bar

[abstract cedar]

BB only gets up to 900 and that's ST

[austere estuary]

can swing wildly though

2.5-1.5, 0-100

er

2.5-1.0

1.3 at 80

1.3 is very fast, 1 is turbo for that level of nuke and control

[abstract cedar]

Being able to stagger multiple Ogryns at once is pretty goated, but in general the CC it offers can't compete with how wide the surge & purg reach in the same cast time

[elfin crystal]

to be fair, surge and purg can also cc ogryns. technically even faster

since purg it's on your left click and surge you don't need to charge at all

[abstract cedar]

I think the difference is trauma will knock them down

[elfin crystal]

that's fair i guess

[austere estuary]

and possibly rend them hard

in mission atm

but will vid after

[abstract cedar]

Does trauma rend naturally or does it have a blessing for that?

[austere estuary]

blessing

[tender terrace]

when the staff special attack procs a bb

[abstract cedar]

What would make trauma stronger, straight rending or brittleness?

[austere estuary]

it says rend but

well, as said, I'll vid

not sure how it works for mp is all

[abstract cedar]

I'm not sure how long the debuff lasts but if you were in Damnation with 5 Ogryn in front of you... Probably brittleness since you can hit them while they're down

But across the board idk

[manic needle]

If Trauma were able to provide brittleness that would actually be kind of dope

[austere estuary]

it might

[fluid knot]

Need to give Trauma another go, theres gotta be some situations where its workable however few they might be

[mighty pike]

Not as workable as hot lead and brass

I used a rifle in the psykanium today and it was miserable how easy it was to rip through all the elites

[karmic quail]

How tf do you do weakspot damage with surge secondary?

[elfin crystal]

iirc you don't

it hits random spots or something

[manic needle]

Thats the neat part...

[karmic quail]

Man Fatshark really hates people playing this class don't they

[austere estuary]

how dramatidc

[manic needle]

Mostly the eyesight of people who use Surge

[lusty wave]

Any new news yet?

They been Hella quiet like God damn

[olive cairn]

I'm tempted to play around with the ol' trauma staff again. Need the shop to produce one first

[karmic quail]

They dropped a trailer and then clocked out

[austere estuary]

they'll only be just back from festive break

[manic needle]

If you're expecting something over the wweekend, youll be disappointed

[karmic quail]

Don't it's hysterically bad, possibly the worst weapon in the game

[manic needle]

Probably the earliest we'll hear anything is late this upcoming week

[fluid knot]

Naturally, but i still wanna test it

[karmic quail]

I have a 380 one and it's still unusuable on malice

[fluid knot]

Uhm, chainaxe would like a word

[lusty wave]

@manic needle I know but not even any new cosmetics, nothing in the game works atm

[olive cairn]

I can't even remember winning a t2 with it. Maybe now I can unlock its hidden secrets 😋

[manic needle]

They just added new cosmetics fairly recently

[lusty wave]

Yeah

Like last week lmfao

[manic needle]

Its just that you have to shell out for them like most of the others

[lusty wave]

That's what I meant like

New cosmetics in the store

The ones we have right now is doodoo

[austere estuary]

lmao what

[lusty wave]

Idk but anyways

[olive cairn]

You tell me! I haven't used it in about 50 psyker missions.

[lusty wave]

The trauma staff is trash

They need to tweak how it works

[olive cairn]

I'll give it a whirl lol

[manic needle]

https://www.twitch.tv/newtypebtw/clip/CharmingFilthyRatRickroll-piZPe0AxQjrT32_K?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

How to kill elites with Trauma staff on Damnation 🙃

[lusty wave]

They need to

Make it do less peril

Or anything inside the aoe to be instantly killed

Except elites and shit

But for that they're stunned

Pox walkers and shit be instantly killed

Either that ir lower the peril cause God damn

[austere estuary]

peril doens't really matter on it

[lusty wave]

Yeah if you're about to explode

[tawny turret]

Any tips on getting the suicide penance? Been trying the entire day

[lusty wave]

@tawny turret it's hard

I want to do it too

[mighty pike]

There are certain maps and missions it's more likely upon.

Commsplex is one and throneside another

[olive cairn]

Vet spot, stun stun stun explode

So I've heard

[elfin crystal]

comm station. wait next to the door for the first defense section. there's always 3+ small elites spawning there. stay close to 100% with surge. use surge one last time to stun them and buy you the time to explode

this one

[tender terrace]

decent bless to start?

[austere estuary]

probably good I guess? I don't use duelling sword much, but it sucking vs armor is a ncie thing to be able to overcome

[dawn orchid]

That doesn't look like a purgatus staff

[keen storm]

dueling sword has a dope animation

[manic needle]

Oh wow I cant believe I typed purgatus lmao

Fixed

[austere estuary]

okay so here's rending shockwave vs a crusher for example

it has zero effect on the actual initial nuke

but for a while after, it'll take a lot more damage on its armored sections compared to usual

problem is it's a massive pita to try and test that for mp

but if it is applying brittleness for the team in an aoe like that, and knocking down, AND doing hundreds of damage, that's really one of the best blessings for trauma imo

[cyan notch]

does it apply to subsequent right clicks?

[austere estuary]

let me check

no

[abstract cedar]

I thought that was brittleness. Rending is a % of true damage through armor in your attack, and brittleness is a debuff that weakens armor after the attack.

[austere estuary]

yeah

that's why I think it could be brittle

despite the tooltip

which makes it great for team

CC, damage and de-armor

[abstract cedar]

The frustrating thing is you can't tell if that's intended, a bug, or just a bad tooltip

[austere estuary]

I assume intended

[cyan notch]

thats kinda stupid right who is gonna spam 2 damage shots after a knockdown

[austere estuary]

?

I don't know what you're thinking of blood drunk

[dawn orchid]

The blessing only applies rending, which applies to the person applying it only

[abstract cedar]

But rending isn't something you apply, it's part of the damage calc

[rocky cedar]

Rend downgrades armour value but trauma does basically the same damage everything but infected, so it only increases damage against infected in practice

Poorly thought through blessing TBH

[cyan notch]

i mean the right click is the one that does massive damage and if it doesnt buff that then what the hells the point

[dawn orchid]

Really? I thought it was a stacking armor debuff

Or armor pen, excuse me

[abstract cedar]

Because it would affect the damage everyone else is doing to the mob

[austere estuary]

question is if it does or doesn't

it behaves more like brittle but hard to tell without mp psykarium

[rocky cedar]

Well yeah cause trauma does same damage to unarmoured, flak, and carapace, so rending does nothing for the charge attacks

[dawn orchid]

Lemao

[cyan notch]

are you sure it does

[dawn orchid]

Quality assurance from obesefish

[rocky cedar]

Not if it's actually rending like the description says. Rending is a self buff not an enemy debuff

[abstract cedar]

My understanding is rending acts as true damage e.g. 25 rending on an attack does 25 damage that happens before you do any damage reduction math from the armor

Is that not the case?

[clear heath]

no

[rocky cedar]

No it just downgrades their armour quality for the calc

So carapace is counted as flak

[austere estuary]

that said

[rocky cedar]

Flak is counted as unarmoured

[clear heath]

We've seen rending actually cause some weapons to actually do less damage with weapons with a high penetration stat, like a rumbler with more than 100% damage against armor will actually lose damage from it's own rending blessing

[dawn orchid]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/zgqr40/image_guide_this_is_how_rending_works_see_comments/

[abstract cedar]

Ty

[dawn orchid]

Seems to be a short duration armor pen bonus against the rended target, which I assume is just a numerical downgrade of a certain number while it's active as opposed to armor tiers

[austere estuary]

the rending numbers are also a bit obfuscated

[abstract cedar]

Ok I hate to say it but that's specific to the Ogryn ripper which could mean any number of things

[austere estuary]

the staff I used there has +8 on a full charge

[dawn orchid]

There's a bunch of stuff that has rending on hit

Power sword has it too

[austere estuary]

and yes, as we know per weapon blessings and descriptions are not always 100% in line

mind you

[rocky cedar]

I'm pretty damn sure what I said before is accurate

[austere estuary]

even if the trauma rending shockwave is just rending for the psyker, it's still very good as a non-force weapon combo

[abstract cedar]

If it works it works I just want some consistency on Fatsharks part

[austere estuary]

then again

let's see if that works

I think it's very hard to be pretty damn sure of many things in terms of how they work in this

[abstract cedar]

These stats are all in the game but we have to test them anyway, that's not fun

[austere estuary]

lots of little quirks and so on

I dunno, I'm enjoying testing things

[dawn orchid]

The fact that there's numbers (or percentages) leads me to believe it's just a reduction of the particular units armor/DR stat as opposed to some kind of armor tier system

[austere estuary]

reminds me of labbing in fighting games

[manic needle]

Imagine if we had codices and blessing buff icons

[dawn orchid]

But if you have anything to show I'd love to see, there's plenty of strange things going on in the game

Rending apparently also negatively affects stagger for some ungodly reason

[austere estuary]

okay rending shockwave also definitely works for your melee weapon, thank goodness

so knocking down -> axe to death while also burning peril passively is a thing

[dawn orchid]

That's neat, at least it's not entirely useless

[austere estuary]

esp if you get t4, which is immediately max rending at 10 stacks

[rocky cedar]

Yes that % of the damage calc is done with a lower armour tier. This fits 100% with trauma secondary attack getting no bonus damage against most enemies

[clear heath]

rending can fuck over certain weapons with high bonuses against armored enemies
Like the rumbler with rending here nerfs the shovel's damage
#zealot-class message

[austere estuary]

if it was tier based you wouldn't even bother having all the different stack numbers

as you'd only have 3 tiers and that'd be that

[orchid venture]

hey so, what's the difficulty jump like from heresy to damnation?
I know I'm good enough to do it, I just kinda prefer winning more matches than I lose. it helps with the ol Problems Syndrome™

[dawn orchid]

Oh, you were talking about trauma and not rending?

Not surprised some things would be armor agnostic in the game

[clear heath]

If you're playing with randoms, honestly damnation is easier cause the teammates are better
unless you're playing at hours where there's less activity, where you actually get 0 teammates cause there isn't enough damnation players

[austere estuary]

My guess on how rending works is that it when a mob has rending on them, the amount of damage reduction they have vs attacks that suffer damage reduction is reduced by a certain % per stack of rending, and possibly it's 10% per stack when max rending is 10

I wouldn't see that as rending using any kind of tier system though

[orchid venture]

hmm... I might not even go up to Damnation yet, at least until I get all the armor penances on everyone

[clear heath]

If rending just reduced damage reduction, why does the shovel in the thing i linked earlier get weaker?

[austere estuary]

not necesarily at least

[dawn orchid]

Bad damage calculation equations

Is my guess

I remember reading in vet chat that powerswords with the rending blessing and +carapace damage actually lowered your damage

[rocky cedar]

No I was talking about rending and how trauma corroborates how it works by gaining no bonus damage

[austere estuary]

if it was just tiers, we can actually check that

if it's possible to get more than 3 numbers

it's not just tiers

[dawn orchid]

Well if it's an armor agnostic attack then it wouldn't gain any benefit from it

Which it seems to be

[wet belfry]

What perks and blessings would you want on a dueling sword?

[clear heath]

Carapace damage perks is a way to test it. If it's turning off the perk, then it's actually changing the armor type

[austere estuary]

yeah we can get loads of different numbers

not just 3

depending on stacks

can't be just tiers

every stack alters the amount of damage

[cyan notch]

well its not gonna just oh change 100% of your damage to flak on one hit

thatd be pretty busted

[rocky cedar]

No that's been tested, it changes the armour for the damage calc but keeps bonuses for original armour type

[austere estuary]

Really just seems likely that it's a % change in reduction, rather than a convoluted tier system that uses 11 tiers of damage

[cyan notch]

zealot ult also uses downgrading armour

[dawn orchid]

I think it's not quite "downgrading" but ignoring

[austere estuary]

I don't know what zealot ult mechanism is and probably not wise to compare something that might work entirely differently

[lethal folio]

Rending and zealot armour penetration are different.

[rocky cedar]

Yep it works basically same as Zealot Ult except Zealot Ult is basically 100% rending

[austere estuary]

better to stick to things that at least use the same terminology and that's already a handful

rather than taking even more assumptions than we already are stuck doing

[lethal folio]

Rending oushes your armour mod to 100%. Zealot treats flak as unarmoured and carapace as flak.

[cyan notch]

im not taking any assumptions im saying theres a precedent for the armour downgrading

[austere estuary]

on a different ability with a potentially different mechanic

[clear heath]

Well, my rumbler gained damage from rending while another guy lost damage from rending
and iirc the difference between our rumblers was that mine had a low penetration stat. I believe it having less than 100% damage on carapace enemies might have something to do with it

[austere estuary]

better to look at what is actually there on the things with the mechanic we know we want to test

[rocky cedar]

Armour mod? No rending is also armour down grade, that's why it decreases damage on weapons that have higher flak damage than unarmoured

[lethal folio]

False.

[austere estuary]

would make sense that some number interaction jank goes on

[cyan notch]

u gonna back that up with something or

[rocky cedar]

How do you explain that some weapons lose damage from rending then?

[austere estuary]

as it happens, on my axe with 79% pen and a less than 100% number though, it's still getting an increase from rending

[dawn orchid]

In fairness I've yet to see evidence for a rending armor tier system. I would like to request back up for that as well.

[clear heath]

Can you show your axe's penetration stat?

[rocky cedar]

Against what enemy type?

[austere estuary]

crusher

[clear heath]

And it's increasing damage when rend a crusher?

Yeah that actually makes sense

[austere estuary]

100 damage after 8 rend stacks

76 with 0

on head

[dawn orchid]

Aww shit we bringing out the code, hell yeah

That's what I like to see

[clear heath]

I'm saying if it was over 100% on cara, you'd lose damage once you start rending since it'd no longer be carapace after rending
But since you're under 100% anyways, it's still an increase to rend it

Try on flak

[lethal folio]

Rending does not change the armour type.

[cyan notch]

https://youtu.be/YR3Kwu-7HKI

[rocky cedar]

Yeah actually since that axe has over 100% on flak try it on a flak enemy and see if you get more or less damage

[austere estuary]

on flak downgrade

134 to I think 128

[supple skiff]

https://prnt.sc/_NyWyzfj0p5y shoutout this brogryn

[austere estuary]

that doesn't mean it's changing armor type though

[clear heath]

yeah so that's pretty consistent to what we've been saying about it changing armor type calculations

[dawn orchid]

That's chastise the wicked, not rending

But thank you

[rocky cedar]

But what's the alternative that explains that damage decrease?

[lethal folio]

Most attacks have 100% on unarmoured as unarmoured is the default.

[austere estuary]

the alternative is there are a bunch of calculations involving percentages that are occurring and something is screwed up there

the finer details? I don't know

[rocky cedar]

There have been bug reports on the forums for cases where rending decreases damage and Dev response has consistently been that it is working as intended and aligns with my explanation

That it's counting it as a lower armour tier for that % of the calculation

[austere estuary]

a bit like if I can't explain how exactly the sky changes colour with great precision, it doesn't make it any more correct to say because the sun is angry or whatever

[lethal folio]

There is no such thing as armour tiers.

[austere estuary]

it might be, but it doesn't mean that it is on that ground alone

or that

[abstract cedar]

Lol
Lmao, even

[rocky cedar]

No again I'm basing this on Dev responses to bug reports, which is not just random supposition as in your analogy

[austere estuary]

the random supposition is armor tiers

you said they said working as intended, not that they said armor tiers

[dawn orchid]

There's a lot of strangeness going on in this video

Seems like there's something not quite right going on with it

[rocky cedar]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/rending-not-working-on-the-trauma-staff/72270/6?u=alsozara

[lethal folio]

100% rending will always make your armour modifier 100% because it removes all of the difference between your mod and 100.

[austere estuary]

ah ha

that said

it still doesn't give us the full picture - and it's clearly not just using tiers

or we'd just have a few numbers

not as many as we do

[rocky cedar]

Directly from a Dev, "degrade armour type"

[lethal folio]

He's confused it with armour penetration.

Again, we have the code. We can see what it is doing.

[austere estuary]

or again, that

[lethal folio]

And it matches wnat happens in game.

[dawn orchid]

Yeah he does seem a bit unsure of what he's talking about in that.

[cyan notch]

[austere estuary]

looking at what the game is actually doing is usually the most concrete thing to do

[lethal folio]

Not all devs are coders.

Not all coders are gameplay

[clear heath]

It's not even really a dev response. Community support staff is not the same as game developer

[cyan notch]

well theyd have to check with devs

[austere estuary]

oh I didn't even catch that

[clear heath]

They would, but miscommunications happen

[rocky cedar]

I'm still confused how that explains decreasing damage in some instances

[manic needle]

Has the entirety of the code been picked apart yet?

[clear heath]

It's kind of expected that explanations aren't exactly 1:1 with how things work because they're paraphrasing what they've talked to a dev about

[austere estuary]

#psyker-class message

[lethal folio]

Because sometimes your armour mod is greater than 100% and rending always pushes towards 100%

[rocky cedar]

Yeah I saw that I just don't really understand it

[austere estuary]

hopefully they'll fix that

or change, if it's intended

either way rending decreasing damage a bit is not a big deal but certainly less than ideal

[rocky cedar]

Ok so the effect is very similar to what I described, just exact numbers will vary while the overall trend is the same

Sure I can accept that

[austere estuary]

how gracious of you

[rocky cedar]

Chill with the passive aggressiveness, I wasn't trying to have a fight here just explain from what I've seen happen in game and Dev responses

[cyan notch]

how does rending stack then if it changes armour damage modifier to 1

what does 1 stack do

what is max stacks

[clear heath]

Probably changes it towards 100%

[lethal folio]

1 stack is 5% rending, with 8 max stacks

[austere estuary]

max seems to be 10

or not!

[austere estuary]

you have no idea how difficult it was to not type a passive aggressive response to this

[dawn orchid]

The fact that he said "If I remember correctly" makes me think he was unsure and going off what he thought it was at another time, as opposed to asking then and there for confirmation on its current status.

[austere estuary]

I find it hard to not take warp battery on purg

[dawn orchid]

I recommend including a pic of the setup as not everyone can remember all the talents in order off the top of their head

[austere estuary]

when using ascendant blaze you just get so many charges so fast

Using it at 6 stacks and watching your stacks jump right back up

is very satisfying

do warp stacks affect the dot on burn?

I think they do but don't actually know

[lethal folio]

Warp charges boost all damage

[austere estuary]

awesome

[lethal folio]

Weapon traits can too, slaughterer or headtaker jumps your blaze damage.

[austere estuary]

I've been using all or nothing a bunch

really want a t4 of it

6% more damage, or a bit less really since I guess we're comparing 118 to 112, and bigger ult dot

I love the magical head pops

[dawn orchid]

kinetic flayer is a bit inconsistent because it can pop on anything, most useful for helping to maintain warp charges passively

[austere estuary]

but after a while figured I play at very high peril

and yeah as soldier says

[lethal folio]

The way dots scale with stacks makes 6 too good not to take.

[dawn orchid]

Got the wrong name at first

[austere estuary]

gets chewed on hordes, but great for helping passive charge maintenance

on purg though you def don't need it for that

[lethal folio]

You go from barely killing poxwalkers to killing elites with the burn.

[austere estuary]

I wonder if they might ever give us some way to get two feats on some tiers

[orchid nest]

6 also makes you reach the breakpoint for some gunners so you can confidently take out entire gunner groups up to 30m away with warp battery

for damnation

[tacit cargo]

sadge perks but like

still lucky

[austere estuary]

6 charges + all or nothing t4 to 2 shot bulwarks with bb in damnation is exciting to look forward to

[austere estuary]

wow

most important stats all great

[manic needle]

Thats a nice FS

[austere estuary]

flak isn't bad

imo

lots of flak

[orchid nest]

flak is fine for fs. especially great for assassination, the boss is flak

[lethal folio]

Flak probably gets you the ligh special bp on gunners

[fast swan]

is aescendant blaze uzable with any staff that aint purge?

[lethal folio]

Yes.

[fast swan]

which ones?

[lethal folio]

I run it all the time on Trauma/surge because they can get overwhelmed with shooters.

[tacit cargo]

using this rn, not sure if deflector is just so much better since i got BIS perks here but just decent blessings

[fast swan]

kinetic deflector is incredibly strong

[lethal folio]

They are both good.

[fast swan]

berst option if paired with deflector foce sword

[supple skiff]

arguably the best feat for psykers period

[austere estuary]

I love the toughness on ranged

[fast swan]

feats for void staff and ascendant blaze?

321112?

[tacit cargo]

that or 121112

[dawn orchid]

Not exactly saying much, a lot of the psyker feats are overdesigned to the point of uselessness. I wouldn't say it's debatable that it's the best given the competition.

[lunar jasper]

Not my dog, noooo

[cloud heron]

anyone have any tips for going out with a bang?

[valid lake]

you can also get it with plasma overload

[cloud heron]

Is that easier?

[valid lake]

its about the same i would use a trauma staff it builds peril so quick

[regal cedar]

i think dagger is still gonna be better but damn. that is a nice sword

[summer wind]

i envy it ;(

[manic needle]

Am I missing something on sprint efficiency?

[valid lake]

its a waste of time im pretty sure it does nothing

[regal cedar]

its just not rerolled to something else

look at my diamantine

[leaden pier]

just got this for my psyker

[regal cedar]

i use this a ton, its great with flamethrower spesificly

[cloud heron]

flamethrower as in purge staff? Why a knife exactly?

or is this on a zealot?

[regal cedar]

combat knife has crazy mobility

flamethrower staff has very bad mobility, its a very natural fit

[austere estuary]

man if rn n gun worked on staff channelling

would be so nice

[long wharf]

I can't think of a single staff I'd rather have run-n-gun on than something else

[austere estuary]

same

[valid lake]

@cloud heron i can help you with going with a bang ?

[cloud heron]

@valid lake Can you join strike team 20?

[austere estuary]

I wanna see how t4 blazing spirit + shred + crucian roulette works out

though I can't see it being worth losing slaughterer for

4 stacks per crit great if we could just get 3 blessings

[regal cedar]

i dont see myself actually hitting many things with that sword

deflection is nice but ive got many swords with deflection

[austere estuary]

Peril based power gain + shred is one FS I want, the other would be slaughterer + deflect

[regal cedar]

so the soulblaze proc isnt gonna come into play much lol

id like the one that quells peril on weak spot hit or w/e with deflection

but realisticly im prob gonna keep using my purple combat knife

im a staff user at heart

[regal cedar]

yea thats nice

[cyan notch]

i dont like it

[regal cedar]

i use melee mostly to get around, deflection does that but combat knife does it faster

[manic needle]

FS's unlimited dodge is a bit of a sleeper hit in combat situations

[long wharf]

it's good when you're in a tight spot

but that doesn't make up for its slower horde clear

[manic needle]

In this case it's being paired with Purgatus so the build has that going for it at least

[long wharf]

true

[regal cedar]

depends on your weapon choice, horde clears are pretty fast with purge staff if in position for it

[long wharf]

purge is, in my opinion, the best staff to pair with fsword

especially for fsword tanking

[manic needle]

You lose out on passive quell byswitching from your dagger but at least that staff has a high quell stat

[regal cedar]

being in position is important with flamethrower, and im a bit slow so using a weapon that makes me alot faster helps a unsurprising amount

[manic needle]

Also something you can do if you need to passive quell when running from location to location with a FS + staff build is switch to a pickup item like a Medkit or Scripture

Just dont get caught off guard with it

[clear heath]

I just manual quell a lot and it's fine
I guess switching to a medkit would be helpful so you can sprint, but i rarely find myself needing that

[manic needle]

Its a nice piece of QoL if you get stuck with the types of teammates who constantly rush forward

[regal cedar]

i swap to staff to quell and run around with the knife out, changing weapons quickly between flamethrower bursts also helps cover ground

[clear heath]

I just spam sprint slide and quell during the slide with a staff if i need to quell and move

[regal cedar]

you can also wiggle it in peoples faces, wich is always a plus

[inland sand]

jealous of that sword

yet to see a Force Sword above 346 in my shop

or in Melk's

[lunar jasper]

Dumb question. Is a BB a warp attack?

[regal cedar]

it is

the 496 was upgraded all the way from green

[lunar jasper]

Perfect, thanks!

[clear heath]

I've heard it isn't

[lunar jasper]

[regal cedar]

i think its rare to find a blue or higher item with a base stat portion above 350

[clear heath]

People were talking about using cereberal lacerations to buff subsequent brain bursts, but i haven't tried it myself

[regal cedar]

ive got a couple weapons with a base stat portion of about 370 and they are all upgrades

[orchid venture]

hmm... finally got an mkV axe in the shop with pretty good rolls, all except for the Mobility stat, which rolled a 27%

[manic needle]

Finding 360+ seems to be relatively rare

[clear heath]

finding a 360+ of something you actually want is pretty rare

I see them for random garbage all the time

why yes i love getting autoguns on my psyker

[inland sand]

I get blue everything else at 360+ all the time

across 4 characters

just never, ever the Force Sword

or a plus 350 Purg/Void staff

[regal cedar]

that was a random reward

[inland sand]

wow level 4 Infernus

never seen that before

[orchid venture]

the very first ever orange I got on psyker was a 360 force sword, but with Shred and Riposte, no Deflector 😔

[regal cedar]

think that was on my sharpshooter, dont remember

[manic needle]

I see it a lot at Melk's

[regal cedar]

its been deleted for credits

[inland sand]

I would take a 350 one with 80s in Dmg, FT and Finesse

I feel like neither mobility or warp resistance matter that much

[magic hull]

is this good should i cop

[inland sand]

p damn good, shame about charge speed but it's not too big of a deal

[orchid venture]

i actually prefer having a lower charge speed

[magic hull]

im broke and shops closing soon

[orchid venture]

helps you not spend as much when spamming it

[magic hull]

[inland sand]

u should get it for sure

[magic hull]

fuck it im selling my other shit

[inland sand]

blessing is low tier but it's a good blessing for that staff

when they finally add blessing crafting u'll be able to upgrade it

[magic hull]

slap on this boi

[inland sand]

wow that is really nice

[regal cedar]

i think uninterruptable is lowkey amazing on these

[magic hull]

can i have that tnks

[still hearth]

Hello fellow Witches, does Mind in Motion do anything if you use a staff or is it just bad?

[regal cedar]

focused channeling

[inland sand]

I'm not really keen on that blessing

[cloud heron]

too much opportunity cost imo, but it's not bad in a vacuum

[inland sand]

which one is MiM again

[manic needle]

My good FS has T1 uncanny strike. It's very 😐

[cyan notch]

why you lying bro and plus that perk pip is the old icon

[magic hull]

purgatorious

[cloud heron]

quelling doesn't slow

[still hearth]

Okay but does it apply on staff or just hand quelling?

Because with staff you move at nearly full speed anyways right

[inland sand]

all quelling i think

[cloud heron]

works on staff

[magic hull]

because im seeking attention now let me be child

[inland sand]

but not worth it Vanessa

the peril block on that row is amazing

[cyan notch]

you have posted that purg staff pic like 500 times in here

[inland sand]

one of the Psyker's best talents

[magic hull]

ur getting a dollar for each time i post

[cyan notch]

you can flex your surge but no need to make up some fake oh no the store is closing fake backstory for it

[still hearth]

Blocking is for newbs.

[ornate hamlet]

Is it worth buying the orange?

[inland sand]

wait till u block a Crusher overhead with 0 peril and tank the whole thing without taking damage

[lunar jasper]

Kinetic Deflection?

[inland sand]

then u won't say that

[clear heath]

it does something but it seems like it's barely anything on staves
like i tried testing it. Walked away from an enemy while quelling with a staff.
Without mind in motion, i got 6 meters away when my quelling finished
With, i got barely 7 meters away

not worth it imo

[inland sand]

top one on 20 row

i don;t know name

blocks with peril over stamina

[cloud heron]

kinetic deflection yeah

[magic hull]

im pretty suprised you checked the archive though and rmbed it

[inland sand]

lets you do some mad clutchy shit

i don't even have any Block efficiency on my psyker yet but when I do, oh boy

[cyan notch]

the perk icon is wrong and outdated so it made your fake shop closing story worse

so then i searched

[manic needle]

Absolutely called out

Damn

[magic hull]

i take it

took a risk get the blow lol

[cyan notch]

at least take an updated screenshot

[still hearth]

But now I can walk fast with my hands too

[orchid venture]

shop reset in 30 seconds... cmon baby big money...

[magic hull]

too lazy bro 🥹

[inland sand]

this is as close to high drama as it gets around here

[magic hull]

I'm the kind of player that wouldn't even think or remember the updated icon and such

[manic needle]

380 autopistol incoming hope youre ready

[magic hull]

high drama? this is the tip of the iceberg

[orchid venture]

359 purg staff, not bad actually

but I think I have a better one

shame...

[inland sand]

alright come oooooooon forcesword above 346

[cyan notch]

no u get 11 guns 2 curios and 2 tac axes

[inland sand]

sigh

was pretty much that

[tacit cargo]

Holy shit the modifiers, but flames cant crit, so reroll that crit chance

[clear heath]

Imagine
you finally get a 360 fs
but all the stats go into warp res and mobility, and damage gets dumped

[lunar jasper]

I rerolled a Psyker. Having to work my way back up to a decent staff is such a chore 😩

[inland sand]

cursed

[orchid venture]

yeah, shame this 359 purg staff rolled with 58% cloud radius...

[magic hull]

flames cant crit?

[tacit cargo]

no

[cyan notch]

this ones pretty funny

[tacit cargo]

sadly makes warp nexus useless on purg

[long wharf]

you can only slow walk everywhere with that one

it's made out of uranium.

[clear heath]

That's a pretty cracked 314

[tacit cargo]

cant crit on zealot flamer either

[long wharf]

you are dead wrong

[orchid venture]

so, the purg staff Can crit, but I heard it just applies 2 burn stacks instead of 1

[long wharf]

purge can crit

[austere estuary]

you can crit on purgatus

[long wharf]

and crits apply 2 stacks instead of 1

[austere estuary]

100%

more damage and more stacks

[long wharf]

you want warp nexus on purge

[clear heath]

also global crit chance

[long wharf]

yep, more crits the merrier

[cyan notch]

probably bearable

[magic hull]

wait so what's a better blessing on purg?

[clear heath]

But what is base sprint speed? 1?

[austere estuary]

presumably yeah

[long wharf]

warp nexus is also decent for void

[austere estuary]

when you look at the +.8 on daggers and duelling etc

and how fast tehy go

[clear heath]

If you're sprinting at like, 60% speed, that sucks ass
But if base sprint is like 3 or something, -0.4 isn't as big of a problem

[tacit cargo]

i personally prefer warp flurry, since the extra dps is worth less than continues stagger

but thats preference

[long wharf]

warp flurry is pointless on all the staves

[tacit cargo]

also more casts means more dps too

[clear heath]

I mean are they really running 80% faster than everyone else though?

that doesn't sound right

[orchid venture]

ok i looked at my inventory, and saw 2 mkV axes that were very similar, but one has limbsplitter so...

[tacit cargo]

how is getting a full cast 50% faster useless dude

[long wharf]

because you're only imagining that you're charging faster

[clear heath]

People debate here constantly about whether it even functions

[austere estuary]

warp flurry I've demonstrated in video here how it works on void

[cyan notch]

idk if it adds to this or what

[austere estuary]

it's not imagination when you see the bar leap up clearly in the right amount

[long wharf]

you have to spam lmb attacks in order to charge up faster

[clear heath]

oh it's 5

[long wharf]

but as soon as you start charging, you lose the stacks

[austere estuary]

you don't have to spam them to get the first amount

[clear heath]

-0.4 doesn't sound that bad then

[austere estuary]

which can be 10%

consecutive fully charged still get the first stack

[clear heath]

Can you even get flurry to work on surge at all though?

[tacit cargo]

secondary means its not even supposed to do anything with just left click spam but aight

[austere estuary]

not on surge as far as I tested

seems just broken on it

but surge is kinda weird so harder to tell without strict timing

surge always shows a part of the bar full at the start of its channel for me, to be precise in what I mean about weird

[cyan notch]

also tanks dodge even lower tho lol

[austere estuary]

another shop refresh, another zero psyker weapons refresh

[clear heath]

Well the dodge stat reduction was in % anyways, so i already knew how much it was changing it by

[tacit cargo]

thats mine

it has flurry

it works

[clear heath]

are you sure it works?

Have you timed it?

or seen it actually do anything?

[austere estuary]

here

for void #psyker-class message

[clear heath]

yeah but for surge

[tacit cargo]

it seems to charge faster than my other surges, i'd have to go for a video to check 100% tho

[austere estuary]

definitely need a video to check surge with its weird bar

if it works on surge it behaves totally differently to void, so my guess is simply it doesn't work for surge

and the reason for that in my mind is - the buff applies when you left click while holding right click, but the surge animation once you left click is too long

so you can't ever even use 1 stack

just my guess at how it's working

[clear heath]

Anyone tried getting around that by swap canceling? Or is that still too slow?

[austere estuary]

I have a surge with it, I'll hop into psyk and try

[orchid venture]

why dont i see more psykers using a chainsword...

[austere estuary]

can't seem to get it working while cancelling either on surge

[clear heath]

rip

[austere estuary]

and I have t3 for 8% which on void is very noticible visually when it skips up the bar

[tacit cargo]

tbh could be, i have a voidstrike with max roll for flurry too, but even there its only barely noticeable. psykers jsut a buggy mess

[austere estuary]

so it should be equally noticible

I think on void it's big

and I mean

it should be, 8% of a bar is what I get with my void, and that'd be more than going to max on the charge bar in equivalence

[tacit cargo]

i mean once its stacked up on void it should be 40% tho

[austere estuary]

it does get to that

see here #psyker-class message

[long wharf]

the problem is as soon as you start charging, you lose your stacks

[austere estuary]

you don't

well

you do

[long wharf]

I mean charging beyond minimum

[austere estuary]

but you get the first stack

[long wharf]

right

you never hit +40% charge speed

[austere estuary]

and that's 8-10% which is big

[long wharf]

at best you hit +10%

[austere estuary]

like way bigger than many points on the bar

and since void does well to fully charge a lot, that's a huge amount of extra shots across a mission

[clear heath]

Does doing other actions interrupt the charge speed buff?
Like could you still stack it up on voidstrike if you quell cancel it or does it have to just be chained casts?

[long wharf]

it's by timer, I think

[tacit cargo]

which is just the dumbest shit, idk how they managed to fuck up so many blessings

maybe they shouldnt have overloaded the game with so many that they cant even check which work

[austere estuary]

but also, I'd imagine doing charged shot (100% )-> insta shot (10% from skip alone) -> charged shot (100% but with 20% boost) might be more damage

than just charging along every shot

as well as the bonus staggering

[cyan notch]

division 1 moment

[clear heath]

Does this make quell cancel spam a lot stronger then? Since you'd be spamming 40% shots instead of like 0% shots after a while

Or does it not work?

[austere estuary]

I don't think warp flurry is meant to give you a constant 40-50% reduction in cast time

it would be insanely powerful if it did

[tacit cargo]

its just sad to see that they seem to have had 0 cross communication with the vermintide team for like anything regarding QoL and balancing

[austere estuary]

10% most of the time, 20-50% other times depending on situation is very good

on void at least

10% still good on surge imo as well but not a big surge player so 🤷

[tacit cargo]

they'd need to reduce the numbers, but being able to have reduced charge time on consecutive charged attacks is the only way this blessing makes sense and the way 90% of the playerbase would understand it when they read it

[austere estuary]

It does make sense imo as it does now - it's just not super well communicated, and being broken entirely on some staffs doesn't help

for the staffs that have longer animations, it needs to give much more grace time

[supple skiff]

chained, in my view, means a link of unbroken events. It shouldn't be time based as its written now

[tacit cargo]

the entire system around crafting and weapon specs and the shop is ass, work on that and the still persisting crashes needs to be the number 1 prio for the devs, but the radio silence and constant premium cosmetics really arent helping

[supple skiff]

I wouldn't have held out for flurry if the descrition was accurate to what it does in practice

[austere estuary]

yeah they could write rapidly chained or something

[tacit cargo]

feels like they got their prios wrong

[supple skiff]

understatment of the year

[austere estuary]

I think if they'd just called it early access, it'd be pretty on point for expectations

feels like hades early access

[tacit cargo]

the beta ran better

both preorder and closed

[austere estuary]

lots of fun, great stuff, but still being iterated on and bugs etc

[tacit cargo]

i mean by now quite a bit of the crashes are gone, but i still crashed like 4 times today

[austere estuary]

I got so many crashes since launch

beta was fine

[clear heath]

Well, on void i can see that being busted yeah
But honestly it wouldn't be that insane on a lot of the other staves. Peril costs are too high to be getting that many casts anyways. If it actually fully worked on surge staff, you'd realistically would only get like, 3 casts with the 40% charge speed. By the time you'd get that many stacks, you'd be at 70% peril

[austere estuary]

experimental build a bit better than normal but still crashes

[austere estuary]

well sort of - even on trauma a big part of the peril cost is the charge time peril cost

which flurry negates a lot of

[tacit cargo]

i also dont see why the game crashes sometimes, i can do high intense 5, not get a single crash and then step into the elevator and my game dies

[austere estuary]

as it is, basically any staff to charge to full and fire safely requires quelling to roughly 80% from 100

[clear heath]

I mean, my surge staff casts 14% even on instant cast
14*5=70

I wouldn't get that many casts at the full cast speed even if it actually worked and stacked up

[cyan notch]

yea theyve mentioned crashes

[austere estuary]

charge time peril is like

[supple skiff]

things make a lot more sense balance wise when you work back from the presumption that there was little to no QA done

[austere estuary]

at least half of trauma peril per cast

[zinc phoenix]

Honestly I’ve had one crash in like ~150 hours

[austere estuary]

I see about 23% before actually left clicking

[tacit cargo]

yeah but when was that? last time any real statement came out was with the signal patch like 3 weeks ago

[zinc phoenix]

The crafting/weapon getting stuff is dumb but I’ve solved that by not giving af anymore

[clear heath]

You'd still never get all 5 stacks of flurry even if you instant casted trauma

[austere estuary]

yeah

as it is now

flurry would never be useful on trauma

[cyan notch]

that was the last update tbh lol before the holidays last year

[zinc phoenix]

Yeah most of us don’t work on Christmas 😂

[austere estuary]

though I think you could get the stacks, it still wouldn't be useful as while there are situations to cast it instantly, mostly it's charged fully

[idle shuttle]

does collecting grims/tomes effect mats at all

or just ordo

at the end

[tacit cargo]

i'm not saying they should have dropped 3 patches since mid december, but some talking points the community keeps bringing up would have been nice...

[austere estuary]

ordo and depending how superstitious/on copium we are, maybe emprah gifts in some way

[zinc phoenix]

Seems like it just gives money — and not a lot of money at that — but 🤷‍♀️

[cyan notch]

affects xp and dockets

[clear heath]

I wish xp did something

[austere estuary]

doesn't matter how many people bring them up, holiday is holiday

[zinc phoenix]

If everyone is out for three weeks because Sweden you aren’t gonna have patches

[tacit cargo]

did i not literally say

[cyan notch]

we will have to get a community update this week since they missed out on first week of jan

[tacit cargo]

that i didnt mean there should have been more patches

just some engagement regarding the players concerns

instead of radiosilence

[zinc phoenix]

Who will talk about that when the community people are also on holiday?

[supple skiff]

wouldn't need patches if the game was finished

[clear heath]

When does their holiday end?

[tacit cargo]

how long are holidays in sweden?

christmas was 2 weeks ago

[zinc phoenix]

They get like a month for Xmas no lie

[austere estuary]

on my priority list, working people getting proper holidays is infinitely higher than video game I play getting fixed

[zinc phoenix]

Paradox basically closes down for December and early January

Also remember some people start the clock at the end of November and some people start it the week before Christmas

So you have like two months of half staff at best

[tacit cargo]

oh i 100% agree, i have to work holidays myself, time off is important. but i doubt the whole studio is gone for like 3 weeks, since they are still releasing cosmetics and the community managers are also active

[zinc phoenix]

But don’t worry they do it again come July/august

[long wharf]

the biggest problem with Darktide is that the game mechanics themselves are implemented entirely in Lua

in the least object oriented way possible

every blessing for a weapon is reimplemented specifically for that weapon

[zinc phoenix]

Cosmetics are made and timed to go out on a schedule with no humans, CM posts are scheduled with maybe some random interaction by them when it launches

[long wharf]

as a software engineer, looking at the game's Lua makes my skin crawl

[austere estuary]

what are the main problems that approach causes?

[long wharf]

the biggest benefit of Object Oriented Design is code reuse

[cyan notch]

i think we get a community update this week and maybe a patch next next week

[supple skiff]

too bad they didn't put the mission events on a similar timer

[long wharf]

you write functionality in an object once, and then you use that object everywhere

need to make a change? just change that one object's code

[supple skiff]

been what, 3 weeks since a lights out or assault modifier

[long wharf]

and it's changed everywhere you use it

[supple skiff]

but, did it for the shop no problem, lol

[cyan notch]

what the hells assault

[austere estuary]

I miss lights out, stressful but fun

[supple skiff]

little med stations, more ammo drops

[long wharf]

but with Darktide, the weapon blessing Blazing Spirit is implemented independently for each staff and sword that can get it

[cyan notch]

ive never even seen that before

[long wharf]

the psyker feat to increase maximum warp charges?

[austere estuary]

can we actually get blazing spirit on non-trauma?

[tacit cargo]

It's been ages since it was active last

[long wharf]

any code checking for warp charges has to manually check for that feat being active

[supple skiff]

it was in for a few missions the day of the last patch

maybe a couple hours

[austere estuary]

oh I noticed the max warp charges thing being funny in psyk, like it has a whole separate buff stack for when it can go to 6 vs when it goes to 4

[long wharf]

what happens if you add another mechanic, like a weapon blessing that can up max warp charges?

[cyan notch]

bruh

[austere estuary]

if you swap while one is active and build more

[supple skiff]

but like I said, rigged the cosemetics to drop no problem on break

[long wharf]

now you have to manually find every instance of code that checks for the warp charge feat and reimplement the new check for weapon blessing

[supple skiff]

I hate myself for liking 40k so much, otherwise I would have dipped already

[cyan notch]

i mean those are just easily scheduled right

[long wharf]

it means any changes or fixes that sound super simple could be stupidly difficult to fix due to spaghetti code

[austere estuary]

I mean if you're not having fun with the game

there's a lot of good 40k content

[long wharf]

but none like Darktide

[austere estuary]

I'm nearly 30 books into the horus heresy now, picked back up on it after a while

[supple skiff]

when it works and you ignore the shit itemization its good, gameplay loop is great

[long wharf]

the atmosphere, gameplay, audio, music, visuals - all great

the hardest things to get right are done well

[austere estuary]

I don't even mind the messy state of items, I do wish they didn't release without rebless and with only the stores to get new items (well, emprah gift exists but only just)

If we got more items at mission end, and more/better quality if we do subquests (esp grims)

[zinc phoenix]

I mean honestly game dev code is always weird and not how I’d do things but I’ve learned to let it go

[austere estuary]

that alone would make the farming aspect feel far more interesting

[tacit cargo]

It's not like I don't want them to have breaks, they deserve them like any other human does. But if they don't fix their shit and fast, the player base will leave. The gameplay is great, but I'm sick of making excuses for core gameplay being good, while the game itself is a buggy, non rewarding mess of code with no kind of player agency and artificial engagement bumpers like the horrific shop system. I love their other tide games, I know they can do it but so far they've given little to any effort on making us believe they actually care about half the issues we keep bringing up.

[austere estuary]

that and if we broke things down into plasteel and dia depending on their rarity

[zinc phoenix]

Most of it is written by junior guys just getting out of college who don’t know beans

[austere estuary]

if the player base leaves, it leaves - such is life when big business makes decisions about releases and so on

[supple skiff]

as it is now, with the clunky crafting, if mats were more abundant it would be more bearable. But having to do like 10 missions for a single orange upgrade only to have it be ass fucking sucks. Im at the point where im just stockpiling mats now.

didn't meat to reply that lol

[austere estuary]

we won't really be able to tell as well if that was the wrong decision financially or not till later down the line as well

[tacit cargo]

Yeah but why spend thousands on marketing, probably hundreds of thousands on development just to let your game die in 4 months

[cyan notch]

yea its shit to just check shop and melk and be disappointed cuz EMP GIFTS ARE CAPPED TOO AT LEAST UNCAP THAT SHIT

[supple skiff]

pump and dump baby

steamchart numbers barely moved around christmass

so, I doubt the rush for the holidays payed off

[long wharf]

the entire codebase reads like somebody's first big project ever, and they're forced to use Lua, and they invent the concept of classes with it without all the benefit of an actual OOP language

[austere estuary]

it may or may not have died in four months, and who knows about internal disputes about cost of not releasing vs releasing with a poor state

[tacit cargo]

And then they give us one crafting option for perks and fucking make you lock one perk per weapon. Who thought of that garbage

[long wharf]

it's the most ridiculous nonsense in Lua I've ever seen

[zinc phoenix]

Like I said, game devs are mostly junior guys fresh from college. More senior ones move to commercial code because the pay and hours are better

[supple skiff]

they said they had another system but scrapped it cause it wasn't good enough

[sharp idol]

yo ive seen some psykers using the void strike staff and like rapid firing it how you do that?

[austere estuary]

I see talk all the time about how this or that game will be dead or how it'll fail and the publisher will learn from it, but look at cyberpunk 2077, total mess for a long time, first game ever to be pulled from psn for such a reason

still made shitloads of money and ultimately now is well loved

it's tougher for a mp focused game to do that but

[zinc phoenix]

Agree people underestimate the sheer momentum of a huge game like this one

[austere estuary]

other examples exist of games being in a total mess but doing financially well

or at least well enough to satisfy the company

[tacit cargo]

People were already bothered by Vermintides crafting and they promised it to be better here only to take the worst aspects of VT and bump them up to 100%

[zinc phoenix]

I’ve personally stopped playing it… but I also played it a shot long time after release and really enjoyed it

[cyan notch]

https://youtu.be/kuI0yivv5FU

[sharp idol]

ah thank you

[supple skiff]

my money says they decided to add crafting late in the dev cycle and did'nt actually have a system, just a pr spin for time

[clear heath]

Haven't looked at all the game's code yet, and I'm sure there code has a lot of problems but
it's actually not that crazy to not follow OOP for game development. Look into entity component systems. It's very commonly used for game engines

[zinc phoenix]

I think they cut a prior system and replaced it

Everything about the game screams last minute reworks

[austere estuary]

read plenty about game dev having big churn, with non-game industry coding paying a lot better and having much better conditions

[supple skiff]

no way a prior system was worse than this though

[long wharf]

I'm very familiar with entity systems

[austere estuary]

seems like a bit of a meat grinder fed with passion and burning dreams for fuel

[long wharf]

Darktide's Lua code... is not highly optimized code

I've been writing code for decades

I know amateur code when I see it

[tacit cargo]

Yeah but there was a world to explore beyond gameplay, with lots of lore and things to find even though it ran like ass and was buggy af. Rn darktide has aesthetics, atmosphere and decent gameplay in missions but that's it. Nothing beyond that. Why hire the biggest WH writer to make a story that fits on two pages

[supple skiff]

did they not lose a bunch of their vets for this project?

[long wharf]

no idea

[austere estuary]

As I said, there are plenty of other examples, that was just the highest profile one off the top of my head - look at warzone, or early pubg (haven't played in years so can't speak to more recent versions)

[long wharf]

the lead designer is still there, though

[austere estuary]

warzone with absolutely critical problems with cheating etc

didn't stop it being stupidly successful

[manic needle]

Darktide is supposed to be a live service game, so there's the possibility we'll see more story unfold over time

[tacit cargo]

Yeah but early PUBG was like 3 people behind it, how many devs has darktide?

[manic needle]

The last vox transmission hinted at something inhuman lurking in the undercity

[thick pecan]

Is there a way to cheese malleus
\

[austere estuary]

again you're kind of missing the point

[zinc phoenix]

The story we got is clearly the intro. The rest will be introduced with the new maps as they come

[austere estuary]

getting hung up on the details

[tacit cargo]

Did you play Vermintide before this? Same core idea, but the amount of lore that was in there at launch can hardly be compared to whatever we have now

[zinc phoenix]

Vermintide also had like one cutscene at launch

[shut oak]

Seems like a waste of peril for the dmg you get.

[tacit cargo]

I really want this game to succeed btw, I'm not trying to just talk shit. I've been waiting for this for a long time

[ruby narwhal]

Hey guys what do y'all have in the 4th row of talents?

[zinc phoenix]

And five characters you couldn’t modify

[cyan notch]

yes its garbage dps

[zinc phoenix]

And very limited weapons

And no classes etc

Vermintide was also hella fun on launch… but so is darktide

[manic needle]

I mean again it really depends on if this is it, or if they're going to be regularly updating the game with an evolving story. All I can do at this point is speculate based on the vox transmissions theyre releasing at intervals

[austere estuary]

every game will have x y or z individual factors and backdrops, but being a technical mess, or unfinished etc really doesn't actually matter as a binary switch for success or failure, just as a game that's brilliant on those fronts could be lost to zero interest and make terrible losses

[austere estuary]

aand yeah as a big 40k fan who also loves this gameplay, it'd be great for me for this game to explode

I don't think it will though

[zinc phoenix]

All I know is when they do the next story drop I’ll be playing like crazy

[tacit cargo]

It released with 15 missions that kept building on each other story wise and a crazy amount of in character banter. The latter obviously not being possible here since it's no name chars, but the amount of missons we have for launch is kinda sad

[austere estuary]

but I also don't think it's doomed because of tech problems and being unfinished

[clear heath]

We do have a pretty good amount of character banter in this game though

[ruby narwhal]

Could really do with a hand choosing talents :S

[clear heath]

200+ hours and i still hear new dialogue from time to time

[zinc phoenix]

Yeah but those missions were on static single use maps which limited how many they could make. These are apparently modular as heck so they can reuse them and in theory iterate faster

The whole game design ethos is pseudo procedural

Which is a weird change from the Vermintide games

[tacit cargo]

Yeah, its not driving lore is what I meant tho. That's not even negative tho, I really like the VAs and the back and forth here too. It just helped build a relationship to the world more in vt

[manic needle]

Darktide has a number of missions already, although it might not seem like it since you're limited to a small number of rotating missions being available at any given time

Isnt it in the low teens at least?

[zinc phoenix]

Some of which share a good chunk of the maps