zealot-class

[merry flume]

unstable power on it is actually absurd

[violet hornet]

Aww no red H, guess I'll die

[spare talon]

its called covenant, not illisi

[hard nexus]

that’s only 20% though, compared to 40% from slaughterer

[merry flume]

it goes up to 80 with max stacks

[hard nexus]

oh what the fuck am i stupid

ferb i know what we’re going to do today

[violet hornet]

I am guilty of this with thammer activated heavy. If you cannot kill something by the time I can bonk it I'm bonking it

[spare talon]

unstable power?
no it doesnt

t4 is 5% per stack up to 20%

[merry flume]

so do i have a mod that straight up lies about it

[obsidian prairie]

I feel like we would have noticed an 80% easy conditional power bonus

[remote lark]

hi vic

[spare talon]

^

thrust is buttfuck tons of damage and thats 60%
80% for doing nothing would be stupid and youd clearly notice

[stone fern]

hi stan

[remote lark]

I'm on red but my phone keeps getting blown up

[hard nexus]

ok that’s what i thought

[merry flume]

its worded so weird, and then adds the "stacks 4 times" at the end. esl moment

[remote lark]

erm, what the meow

[hard nexus]

epic SNAIL

[remote lark]

noobtuals

[merry flume]

play melee psyker without raging

[median steeple]

sloplot chat

[hexed igloo]

Slopcord slopchat

[solar gorge]

slopocalyspe

[visual blade]

curio setup for havoc zealot?

[normal wren]

9 stamina, gunner resist, corruption resist, coherency regen

[hard nexus]

i just do the same i have for aurics, 3 toughness curios, with 2x gunner res, 3x hp, 3x toughness

[obsidian prairie]

I do 3 tough with 3 minor tough 3 gunner res and 3 Stam regen

[normal wren]

My lie will make it half way around the world before meows response laces its boots

[hard nexus]

:(

[normal wren]

Dont need toughness if you don't get hit

[obsidian prairie]

The fading light scab stalker about to add another reject to their clips compilation:

[normal wren]

Nah bro just turn on spidey sense for stalkers ez

[obsidian prairie]

Sensory overload

[normal wren]

I live in the strobe zone

[misty nova]

"Wolfer, get the camera"

[misty nova]

carameldansen.gif

[tawny walrus]

Is dueling sword better on an IJ or Piety build?

[hard nexus]

piety to benefit from the DS finesse damage, alongside invocation of death

[tawny walrus]

Tight. Thanks

[royal flicker]

Damn. I just had weird stuff happen. Discord didnt work. Couldnt send any msgs. Restarting discord didnt work. Yet darktide ran fine. Turned off pc. Turn it on again , something something usb voltage , automatic shutdown. Waited like half an hour. Pc turns on normal now, no problems.

[undone pewter]

Discord was down lol

[royal flicker]

Im not saying it was aliens... but... https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/183/103/alens.jpg

[royal flicker]

Doesnt explain the voltage thing.

[undone pewter]

Lightning strike

[remote lark]

kid named shred

[royal flicker]

weathers fine right now

[wind dagger]

why have I seen so many people genuinely advocating for like endless stamina builds

[normal wren]

no idea tbh

[wind dagger]

seen it in every class chat over the last day or two

[royal flicker]

I know one youtuber runs it often, maybe he started it, or made it more popular. Then again its been around for quite some time, for speedrunning.

sims has 900 dollars worth of dlcs 💀

[copper hawk]

LMFAO

[wind dagger]

not as much as dt cosmetics

[copper hawk]

Adhd

[frozen kernel]

I like to believe the heretics have a 40k equivalent to TikTok where it’s just live footage from trapper goggles of them curving nets around walls

[wind dagger]

WE CALL THIS A DIFFICULTY TWEAK

[frozen kernel]

Every time a net comes flying through a wall corner, I just hear a small crowd let out a cheer from over the Vox

[frozen kernel]

From the amount of (probably wave new console) players that still shift run straight at gunners instead of sliding…that’s prolly why

Just piss away all their stam sprinting just to get guard broken by the first pox, or not having any left to spam push attacks with certain weapons

[tawny walrus]

Please don't call me out like that

[remote lark]

idiots

[tawny walrus]

What are the DS4 perks+blessings again for a Piety build? The table in the pins didn't seem to have em. I'm running flak+unyielding with uncanny and riposte

[visual stream]

Smackdown haymaker

[tawny walrus]

That doesn't sound right

[visual stream]

Because it isn't xd
Precog/Riposte/Uncanny are the blessings that people are going I believe

[fleet zealot]

Vt2 boomers and word of mouth

(If they are running block effic as well especially)

[tawny walrus]

Sweet. I'll leave those as is. I tried out cara+maniac and had some better TTKs

[fleet zealot]

Another cozy ferret picture in psyker chat

[visual stream]

hnng.. must... blockmax

[carmine falcon]

oh god im blocking the rager pack im bloooooocking aaaaaaaaa

[misty ravine]

They were bowled over by a video of a speedrunner and just copied their build line by line?

[obsidian prairie]

(They get pancaked 2 minutes later and leave because elf main)

[visual stream]

Okay but +9 stamina, 3x block eff., more stamina and block eff. on melee weapon, kinetic deflection, and Empyric Resolve with Deflector

[obsidian prairie]

Ogryn on their way to do that with base shield

[carmine falcon]

no body's dead but at least all their attacks are blocked

[fleet zealot]

Dies to 2 overheads lol, or just eventually gets worn down cause they aren’t killing anything

Fuck speedrunning i wanna see some psyker pacifist runs

[visual stream]

Okay but all of that on a smyker tho, it's the final evolution, the extreme epitome of "Team do it for me please"

[fleet zealot]

0 dmg 0 kills

[fleet zealot]

They are literally carrying by tanking and supporting smh, you don’t need kills or dmg to carry in video game

[visual stream]

I love seeing smykers moan about the team not covering them while they hold left click on three bruisers and one sneaks around them

[stone fern]

TONKING MENTIONED SHIELD PLANT TIME

[visual stream]

Killing every rager in a pack of fifteen myself but leaving one for the smyker and he gets on mic and complains after dying is so peak but so sad

[fleet zealot]

Saw a smyker run up and start smiting a crusher pack, except they didn’t wait for them to be stunned, so he just got smashed into the dirt, and rage quit. Maybe because i watched him die while downed but i was laughing my ass off

[carmine falcon]

i dont hate smiters (or smykers)? cause a good one saves your ass sometimes but psyker can literally nuke everything bro why are u freezing mfs

[visual stream]

There's supporting the team while still carrying your weight in damage, and then there's MOBA mindset

[fleet zealot]

Cause moba/hero shooter/mmo brainrot

[visual stream]

Because the psyker builds that explode everything take more skill than a lot of builds so less people are playing them

[carmine falcon]

like i had few games where smite saved our ass but the guy was also dishing out respectable dmg and only using smite to freeze 100000 crusher packs to regroup, he wasnt holding it to freeze 20 random chaff that need 10 seconds to be wiped

[opaque temple]

supports in mobas run around murdering ppl early tho before gold items outscale

[fleet zealot]

Has combined into a weird infectious mentality that players should be rewarded for how many heals they can shit out a second

[visual stream]

Me on Karma asl

[fleet zealot]

Senna 😭

Not to mention the meta for botlane is riven aatrox somehow but league is just wacky mode after they laid off like half their company

[carmine falcon]

ive ran into very little great force sword psykers
do they not wanna use moonlight greatsword

[obsidian prairie]

I play melee psyker

[opaque temple]

huhhh, there are so many melee psykers rn when i queue

[fleet zealot]

I honestly believe psyker players made dueling sword 4 look balanced, hence why it wasn’t nerfed at all

[visual stream]

Feelsbad when you charge the greatsword and a groaner hitting you voids your full-stack charge. A skill issue but still stinky when you get caught out

[fleet zealot]

I think smite and assail, despite being cool, really drags down the skill level of the psyker playerbase

[carmine falcon]

the ones i get run DS but everyone is running DS

[visual stream]

Brain Burst requiring EP to exist is sad, plus it not really scaling well with Scrier's despite Scrier's being the most fun F

[obsidian prairie]

Which is sad because assail is great when used well without being annoying

[opaque temple]

i feel like prob 60% of pub psykers atm i run into in auric qp, a few of those are staff-main psykers. my friends who play psykers are fgs and knife tho so maybe i'm getting the wrong baseline

[fleet zealot]

Assail focused build rn is honestly ridic op outside of havoc40, it’s just outshined by smite

[misty ravine]

No shit, last night I was in an Auric with a level 60 Zealot who aggroed a Daemonhost in the dumbest way possible, survived an extra 5 seconds due to Until Death, and after he was dead he asked "how tf did I not die instantly"

Like, my brother in the Emperor, did you just copy builds without reading what the talents do this entire time

[obsidian prairie]

I’m talking about use as mapwide shooter/special death

[visual stream]

Mfw the infinite stun that requires no actual resources is bad for the game's health
Who could have predicted this

[fleet zealot]

But assail at release was broken, it could solo mission and 2 in a damnation made it a snoozefest

[opaque temple]

tbf it's balanced by almost everyone who mains it being constitutionally unable to dodge

[visual stream]

GOOD POINT
A noob trap ability will only trap noobs who are the only people who find it fun, who are bad, which will then counteract how good the ability is

[fleet zealot]

A surprising amount of people do this, see whenever talent trees get reset from updates, you have a ton of people coming into discord going wtf do i build send me meta

[opaque temple]

which is bad for the game in its own way but also very funny

[fleet zealot]

They spend 0 time looking at builds and what makes them strong/what their stuff does

[visual stream]

I hate following muh meta, I wanna find my own playstyle and have fun and don't understand how others are not the same

[fleet zealot]

Doubly worse if they copy a shit gameslantern build

[visual stream]

"What do you mean 3x Combat Ability Regen curios are bad with IoD"

[fleet zealot]

Look how many people don’t understand swift certainty

[misty ravine]

They got time to reach level 60 (which isn't huge compared to most of us turbonerds but it's not like they did it in one solid afternoon) but reading what talents actually do takes too long I guess

[fleet zealot]

There is just a type of person in this world that is allergic to learning. You can have level 3k players running shit and playing like ass cause all they do is no life the game without any self reflection or improvement

[frozen kernel]

I use it to bully pugs when I don’t want to sweat after work. Basically “alright, rattle em boys” because while I could just two tap each crusher and pick them up off the floor…I’m not clip farming so I’d rather not

Was useful for the recent brute conscripts event

[fleet zealot]

It’s really weird if you aren’t that type of person and you see it, cause i feel most people would want to improve, learn, get better, but nah they just blame the game or team if anything goes wrong

[opaque temple]

kinda funny seeing ppl with a netdecked youtuber build they don't know how to play. 30+30 ds4 bolter vets are the new plasma vets in terms of players I expect to underperform their meta build.

or the guy who loads in with a full havoc survivability build and basically doesn't get to play the game in auric cos everyone else is playing some flavour of full dps op screenwipe build

[misty ravine]

The highest I've ever seen was two people in H40 with rectangles for names, 2500 and 2700 or so. They were running the most absolute possible meta Smite/Bubble Psyker and DS/Flamer/Chorus Zealot, and played like I imagine bots would play if someone who knew what they were doing programmed them to be good.

[fleet zealot]

Net decking that’s an old term

[frozen kernel]

My friend’s brother is like this in Rivals. He said the supports were shit. Literally the meme of instalock DPS because he can’t fathom learning a character that isn’t Thor

[fleet zealot]

Last time i did that was making a danger! + dark world deck for an online yugioh

[frozen kernel]

AND HE ISNT EVEN DPS SO HE HAS MORAL GROUND

[fleet zealot]

But that was already long since power crept when i tried it, i just wanted to see the new dark world deck

[violet hornet]

thor's a tank, not a dps

[fleet zealot]

That is what banx said

[violet hornet]

reading comprehension 0

[fleet zealot]

Oh and that one netdecker oil owner or whatever that played in friday night magic when i was a teen

Dude would order and buy whatever the stompiest meta deck and then go against literal teenagers who had glorified starter decks

Got 1st place over him in draft night

There were 2 other places in town that would be way more in his league so i guess he was just smurfing irl. This place was a chain and offered free pizza and a soda can with your FNM ticket. So it was popular for youth since their parents could trust it more

Location 2 was middle of the road but wasn’t very popular, then location 3 was very popular with the older magic players and had multiple formats running

[full nebula]

DS4 wasnt balanced on psyker before, nobody gave a shit because the tree doesn't have the ability to enable as much as the others can

If the next best thing was like knife for the other human classes, 1shotting crushers with psyker isn't/wasn't balanced

[copper hawk]

Gneep gnarp

[visual stream]

DPS one tricks in Rivals are genuinely the worst players
Especially Moon Knight OTPs

[violet hornet]

somehow they always manage to have the least damage output too

[visual stream]

Bro all you have to do is hold left click on the ankh and it plays the game for you, and hold left click when you don't have ankh. Doesn't matter which target, because it bounces to anyone close anyway so you're always hitting someone important

Every time I play Strange or Loki I have more damage/takedowns while also doing my role well

[violet hornet]

dps version of rocket raccoon's heal balls in that you just aim in the teamfight's general direction and fire

[visual stream]

Except Rocket doesn't burst

[violet hornet]

true the balls are pretty gradual

[visual stream]

It's pretty crazy how unreactable the damage on Moon Knight can be. He places the ankh and throws one click at it before it's places and 90% of your health is gone as a squishy. When you know it's coming it's easier though

[frozen kernel]

My buddies just played a low level comp match where their random cloak and dagger pulled 68k healing. I will not hear support slander “boo they suck”

[visual stream]

Least one-sided C&D match:

[violet hornet]

and yet whenever they're on my team they somehow forget that they can switch to dagger at all

[frozen kernel]

Most people I see in QP are permanently using Dagger, and forget Cloak is a thing because “it’s just shitty scarlet witch”

Meanwhile you’re just like “watch this right click” and deny a whole ult

[visual stream]

It's pretty crazy how easy C&D is. You ult for immunity to non-burst damage, and right click on Cloak to give your WHOLE team immunity to burst damage, which is the only thing that can interact with your ult at all

[frozen kernel]

My first ever game playing her was a placement comp match where I dropped 40 kills while eating Chinese food

We were like “we should learn to play more characters today” and so I went “fuck it I’ll give CnD a try”

[copper hawk]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-2-trades-skyrim-stealth-archers-for-stinky-smelly-archers-you-can-get-so-filthy-that-npcs-catch-you-broadcasting-body-odor-so-wash-your-hands-kids/

[visual stream]

I love the link

[hard nexus]

insane URL

[copper hawk]

IM COOOOOOKED

[visual stream]

Cyn how cooked am I for healing in Signalis

[hard nexus]

you can heal a little bit

but you want to avoid it as much as possible (you can play the game without healing due to the slight health regen you have)

[visual stream]

How much is a "little bit" before I'm cooked

[misty ravine]

Between 0 and 3

[visual stream]

I've used like 4 repair patches and one of the medium health items

[spare talon]

Wait till you learn about right side talents
You'll shit yourself

[full nebula]

Still not AS busted as the shit zealots tree enables

[spare talon]

It can reach higher peaks in general combat if you're good at melee

[copper hawk]

Die and continue from the menu 5 times

[plush estuary]

I think DS was more broken on psyker

[full nebula]

Idk if thats true when the charge on ds4 can do like 30k damage

[visual stream]

DS was definitely made to be well-performing on a class that doesn't have like any melee talents, then it was given to a class that is melee talent oriented...

[plush estuary]

psyker has the kit to make up for the lack of horde clear, assail

[spare talon]

And PC

[visual stream]

Should I let myself get farmed asap or just let it happen naturally

[spare talon]

It's quite hard for a good zealot to outpace a good melee psyker tbh

[full nebula]

I don't think psykers gonna do 30k boss damage from one crit right

[plush estuary]

they can

[spare talon]

DD and scriers+precog and precog blessing and warp rider

Hell throw thrust in there too

[full nebula]

I've used all of that, not sure if its gonna go that high though. Probably can but its gonna be a lot of work getting all of that shit triggering

[plush estuary]

but that wasnt your point

[sterile basalt]

DD is functionally duellist 0.5

[full nebula]

Someone do a side by side with fury of the faithful and disrupt destiny, I bet its easier to be more effective with zealots tree

[visual stream]

It's definitely easier to both get the value and be survivable

I don't know the numbers on if Psyker reaches higher or as consistently, but zealot accessing that gameplay easier is for sure true

[full nebula]

More reason every weapon should do the exact same flat damage so that everything is balanced.

[carmine falcon]

there's no game in existance where every weapon does the same dmg tho
that sounds boring af

[full nebula]

baited

[carmine falcon]

[full nebula]

[visual stream]

I do not like dynamics
Make a video game that is a flat line across the board

[lament parrot]

why on havoc 40 lots of zealot use immolation grenades?

[full nebula]

i dont run zealot for havoc, but probably because throwing knives drop off later. Takes more than 1 which adds up

[lament parrot]

oh, makes sense

[median steeple]

Both have their place in H40

[hard nexus]

tknives are plenty good still, they only fall off on pus hardened

its still one knife to kill a trapper

[spare talon]

And vastly superior pathing

[full nebula]

Fair enough, that's why I prefaced that I don't use zealot in havoc

[atomic fjord]

Hi zealot chat how are you all

[misty ravine]

Payday 2 literally set every melee weapon's damage to be the same during a balance patch. Stayed that way for a long time too. In a game with dozens of melee weapons with different attack speeds, reach, and on-hit effects like DOT or stun.

[atomic fjord]

I exclusively run my flamer book spam build

[spare talon]

Have you tried having fun?

[atomic fjord]

I have pink dyed hair and wear all black hell no

[misty ravine]

I_had_fun_once_and_it_was_awful.jpg

That's a real picture, too bad I can't fucking post it

Can poast sauce at least:
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=309

[copper hawk]

Farmed probz

It's what i did

[hybrid jewel]

Why do you think the best melees are the dlc tazer or the pencil?

[frozen kernel]

Payday 2 melee weapons get their value from style points. Like the money wad

[misty ravine]

I haven't played in years, no idea what the pencil is

[misty ravine]

https://youtu.be/Pcy45MlI-lA?si=3vCE6FP96DFmxRLl

[frozen kernel]

Briefcase is hilarious in VR because you just slap tf out of cops with it

[hybrid jewel]

It was a free dlc you can still claim somewhere. Just stab fast fast.

[cursive tundra]

Git john wick'd

[frozen kernel]

Potato masher and telescopic baton were also really fun weapons for VR

I think the most fun I had was playing the mission where you zipline into the warehouses and steal the super cars

I brought a M1 carbine and it let me one hand it while screaming down the line, and the driving bit wasn’t horrible

[hybrid jewel]

https://www.paydaythegame.com/static/payday2/social-safe/kento/

I forgot they changed the link. The old one will just redirect you to that.

[obtuse stirrup]

Man I loved payday 2

I should go back to it one day but Darktide has totally stolen the 4 player gauntlet genre for me now. I kinda miss Mass Effect 3 too.

[hybrid jewel]

Heh. GF loved to show off her stealth skills.

[misty ravine]

I honestly don't know if I would ever reinstall PD2

[full nebula]

I never played payday 2 until a couple years ago. Going back, the physics and gunplay are kinda bad tbh.

[visual stream]

My first and only impression of Payday was the third game and the old Christmas carol video

[full nebula]

I can only speak for 2, but for me personally, nothing really feels like it has weight. All of the physics with enemies feel kinda dookie.

[visual stream]

It's the same in Payday 3, not to mention how boring and bad the state of the talents were

The medic line was not only boring but also useless save for like two perks, and it didn't feel like there were smooth synergies for most things that you would think would make for cool combos

[frozen kernel]

I never played it back in the day so my first experience was maybe like 2021 playing VR.

Going to flatscreen made me realize that the base game is kinda…ehhh. Gunplay was exactly what you said

Stealth and gunplay felt so much worse on pancake because I couldn’t just literally tilt my head to slither in and out of cover, and the complete lack of recoil made KB+M gunplay feel very My First Unity Project

[obtuse stirrup]

PD2 was at least fun but yeah everything felt kinda floaty - but that's what makes the speedy suit dodge builds feel more fun imo

[full nebula]

And now Darktide spoils physics and gunplay for everything

[frozen kernel]

At least when there’s only a slight vibration of “recoil” in VR knuckles and my barrel slightly climbing I can mentally go “Yeah that’s how guns work”

[naive wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/how-gif-20971435

[obtuse stirrup]

stealth was awful but still kinda satisfying?

[naive wharf]

frig
"sword user using knife for first time"
how is this the only channel without image/gif perms other then general

[frozen kernel]

I had to stop using the 5.7 because it would frequently over penetrate and kill someone in the next room

[full nebula]

One of the biggest things for me, was how shooting enemies with akimbo shotguns somehow felt weightless, like huh

[remote lark]

Zealot chat..... smells...

[hybrid jewel]

It was that bad? I thought they would have learnt something from Crime Boss lul.

[obtuse stirrup]

Felt amazing on anarchist suit builds imo

[frozen kernel]

The Judge shotgun pistol launching enemies actually being tech

[remote lark]

bad things happened here so we're all being punished

[tawny walrus]

[naive wharf]

nuts

[remote lark]

correct

[full nebula]

Long story short people were posting porn now the entire channel is punished forever

[frozen kernel]

https://streamable.com/n9srnp This is how my brain works. You can probably imagine how I accidentally shot a civilian through a security guard

[hybrid jewel]

There was a silenced gun that did that though.

[frozen kernel]

I’m pretty sure you could put a suppressor on the judge?

[north sedge]

hey it wasn't porn it was ogryn boudoir photography, it was tasteful yet sensual

[naive wharf]

and zealots next on my list to complete the penances for

[obtuse stirrup]

Yeah, silenced Judge

[frozen kernel]

Its_called_hentai_and_its_art.png

[hybrid jewel]

Gecko.

[frozen kernel]

Best part of payday VR was definitely taking a saw to the deposit boxes. Scratches an itch everyone has

[hybrid jewel]

I mean the Gecko. Judge is annoying to use cos of the bug. Having to constantly rejoin the community to fix... yeah.

[frozen kernel]

I’m not familiar with this bug, oh god what like the steam group? Lmao

[grizzled aspen]

It's your upper lip. Go shower, smelly.

[hybrid jewel]

After they did something, they broke the game remembering you are following the community. You need to rejoin every single time the game is booted now.

Or get a nebula acct, I guess. Seems like they are pushing it hard.

[frozen kernel]

Eugh, gross

While Payday 2 eventually had the end the same way one day even a game like Destiny 2 needs to end, Payday 3 has had such a rocky life because it was rushed out the door

The money was probably drying up because everyone I’ve played with has used the DLC unlocker for PD2 instead of buying a goddamn thing lmao

[grizzled aspen]

D2 went out with a whimper because their writers are ass and can't write a story intended for mature audiences. The pg13-ness ruined the title.

[hybrid jewel]

The game is like close to $170 on sale.

[frozen kernel]

Best case scenario would’ve been to push the game out in A. Finished state and B. Meaningful legacy rewards, even if it was just a butt load of cosmetics from the 20 characters of DLC that realistically won’t all be coming back

[frozen kernel]

-on sale

Jfc…it’s like a paradox game lmao

[full nebula]

Problem with payday is that the people on top don't gaf

[frozen kernel]

Payday got way bigger than it ever meant to, rode the lightning, and now they’re trying to figure out how to recapture the lightning

[hybrid jewel]

Yep. Why do you think most ppl use that? It's just too expensive. If it were $40 on sale, still horrible but I mean...

[frozen kernel]

It used to be one of the BIG games. They had a weird H3 podcast crossover, Hotline Miami, they hired Giancarlo Esposito to be The Dentist immediately coming off Breaking Bad

There’s so much more but I’m just trying to get at the variety of DLC stuff they put out

[delicate shadow]

PD2 was peak but the DLC fatigue got very real, very quickly

[frozen kernel]

They -had- the pull to use these names but now? Pfffft lol

[delicate shadow]

plus an utter balancing nightmare

[frozen kernel]

Funniest part was that all of it came after they had to apologize for going back on the, “We will never release paid DLC for our game!” message they put out at launch

“Actually we really like money and making a game isn’t free so we’re releasing paid DLC!”

[delicate shadow]

I don't have an issue with paid dlc myself, like I get it, the problem is once you start crossing into the territory of having like 20+ DLCs it's a problem

[hybrid jewel]

The later DLCs felt scammy, split everything up and such to charge way more.

[delicate shadow]

that too, there was a lot of nickel and diming

[frozen kernel]

I think the problem is less with DLC, and more with DLC content power creeping base game content

[grizzled aspen]

@frozen kernel @tawdry leaf havocs tonight when Lumii gets off work.

[frozen kernel]

Fromsoft is guilty of this in like every single souls game going back to PtDE

[hybrid jewel]

You basically need the DLC to enjoy due to massive power creep. And you know that one mcshay gun for bots.

[frozen kernel]

I’m at work too so usual time? sure

[hybrid jewel]

Shove the Akron on the bots, they now carry your loud games.

[frozen kernel]

On the topic of actual Darktide…folks who ignore LFG channel entirely and just join random strike team channels confound me

Strike party? Go wild, it’s got a 25 person limit for a reason

Strike team? You just invited yourself when they might have an LFG post in the channel (or waiting on a friend and you just took that slot)

[hybrid jewel]

Worst ones try to guilt trip you into playing with them even when you said that this is your last game with your party of 2.

[frozen kernel]

I’d feel like a dark souls invader joining even one of the 25 person voice calls unannounced, let alone 2-3 people who don’t know me

Also being real, some folks are OUT THERE and I’m not trying to join a random group for 20+ minutes that may end up being REALLY WEIRD

At that point I’d rather just pug with in game comms only 💀

[hybrid jewel]

Bonus if you are a woman and the party gets WEIRD in THAT way.

[frozen kernel]

Game*s are scum

[delicate shadow]

that's also a problem but there were a metric ton of map packs in PD2 as well so you missed out on a lot if you didn't keep up, the power creep stuff ofc just added to that feeling

[obtuse stirrup]

Are we still taking uncanny / riposte for knife 3? And what perks? I'm going flak/unyielding atm I think

[copper hawk]

Knife :<

[hybrid jewel]

Problem of the cost. $8 for new map. $5 for mod pack/weapon pack.

[visual stream]

Not all game*s but enough of them

[delicate shadow]

yea and there's like 30 of the bloody things

[frozen kernel]

In real life only like two people know that I “occasionally play video games”

If anyone went “Oh yeah this is my friend Banx, he’s a gamer” I’d fucking reduce to ash

[hybrid jewel]

Thus, they add up and becomes stupidly expensive. Like, tell me if you are okay with dropping Close to $120 to complete your game, only having the old legacy edition.

[frozen kernel]

One time at a New Year’s party some dude walked up to my buddy (he’s master level, but abhors the community) and went “hey I heard you play league”

When my friend went “haha nah man” and the dude asked me if it was true I just shook my head, chuckled, and went “He doesn’t play league”

[full nebula]

Imagine being able to get your irl friends to play anything. Even when these people aren't working, getting people to do anything is pulling fucking teeth. That's why darktide discord is my friend

[frozen kernel]

I have 3 buddies who all own Darktide, but two of them quit for silly reasons and the third has been hooked on Rivals recently

[full nebula]

My friends aren't interested in darktide which is far enough. But every single one of them have gaming pcs, and getting anyone to play literally anything is impossible

[frozen kernel]

Veteran: Quit because he couldn’t stand still and become functionally invisible to the enemy

Psyker: Quit because he would play like a zealot, die alone to maulers on malice, and then barrel our rando out of frustration

[copper hawk]

The only like irl friend i have from my short time in hs is in the marines and occasionally our pathes align and we play war thunder together does that count

[frozen kernel]

Big mood. Hearing them play Tarkov or CS2 while I’m like “does anyone wanna play the monhun beta this weekend 🥹👉👈”

[tawdry leaf]

yippie

[frozen kernel]

I play like 1 game a year with a friend from high school who’s a bit out there, but he’s always genuinely having a great time and doesn’t hit me up outside of that. I’d say it counts

[full nebula]

@copper hawk don't feel too bad, I have multiple irl friends who live around me and getting anyone to play a game, or finding one day to hang out or do anything is nearly impossible

[grizzled aspen]

Ong if you join a strike team and you don't know those people wtf are you doing man.

[copper hawk]

Zame

[grizzled aspen]

I dont like to be mean but it's especially bad because some of these people are "looking to chill" and their preferred difficulty is malice and we are playing auric maels.

Like brother if I drag you into this gamemode you're gonna come apart like a fuckin Lego character, you ain't built for this strike team.

[frozen kernel]

That is the kicker, isn’t it? Literally dragging them on the floor some nights

[grizzled aspen]

And its even worse when they're a complainer. "You gonna pick me up" yeah in a minute bozo I'm kinda busy atm.

[frozen kernel]

I’m not sweating but it is a difficulty where you need to have some game sense in order to be able to play with your brain “off”

[copper hawk]

That stinks man, i gave up askin him or his brother to play smthn. Like every year or so he adds me from a new account after going no contact for eons. He did it again recently but idk if i even wanna play w him cuz he wont like the person ive become (queer femboy thing)

[full nebula]

@grizzled aspen honestly people who jump in randomly i just let them play. I drag people for a game or two, but tbh people often know when to show themselves out lol. Or I just tell them upfront that we're playing auric and people will dip

[grizzled aspen]

I haven't been fortunate enough to have people dip, they're always willing to let me corpse drag them.

[copper hawk]

Lmfao meow did this 2 me once i think and like left me 2 die after i asked if she was gonna unnet me, next time she got dogged i just stared at her

[frozen kernel]

“You gonna pick me up?”

Fam do you see the entire wave of maulers and crushers you instadied to? When do I have a second?

Or that one game where the veteran jumped off, ledged himself against the crusher wave, then our second followed right along and ledged himself too while we were kiting

I just looked over at you with my FGS in a crusher’s eye socket like, “Frog they both fell off”

[grizzled aspen]

The clutch I was trying yesterday with that one guy in our team and he would not shut the fuck up man "you can chastise the wall for toughness" I KNOW THAT DUDE CAN YOU PLEASE STOP TALKING.

[frozen kernel]

Literally Gimli and Legolas fighting alongside Monty Python infantry

[grizzled aspen]

I HAVE 5 REAPERS THAT ARE TRYING TO EAT MY LIMBS WHILE IM STILL ALIVE PLEASE BE QUIET SO I CAN PAY ATTENTION

[frozen kernel]

One reaper just chilling all by himself in the middle of the room, TWO ROOMS BACK

[grizzled aspen]

Yeah and then he ate an entire fucking autogun mag like it was breakfast.

[violet hornet]

thammer eating so good on brute conscripts

[frozen kernel]

I fucking hate video game stairs. Is it floor? Are you considered airborne? Spin the wheel and find out

[grizzled aspen]

"Please die, please die, please die, please die, please die..." while I'm mag dumping his teeth out the back of his head.

[frozen kernel]

You and I would’ve easily just walked to the respawn and got them up if I didn’t get cucked by map geometry. Well, that combined with losing Lumi to the tech gremlins

[grizzled aspen]

Let's also not forget that you didn't have any fuckin ammo because he hoovered it all to boltgun crushers instead of using his relic blade for them.

[frozen kernel]

I FORGOT ABOUT THE AMMO

[full nebula]

I mean if someone's gonna be a dick about it, ima just tell them straight how it is. "This is the point of the game that there's a ton of fundamentals you need to know, and if you don't, and don't have the muscle memory, you're not going to survive, theres no bullshitting your way through" something along that

[vast basin]

Trauma staff on stairs be like:

[grizzled aspen]

Told him like 5 times he's overusing his boltgun lmao he did not listen and I bet he's still queueing into auric pubs and getting absolutely hammered because he and his team are out of ammo.

[frozen kernel]

While there’s definitely an intelligent and rational way to say exactly this, I’m not prepared to do so at 4am after work when some dude inhales 165 ammo before the mid event

[grizzled aspen]

(not a joke he actually had 165 ammo taken and 12 wasted according to my scoreboard and we hadn't even touched mid event on commsplex dish)

[full nebula]

I mean at that point you just boot them from the squad and let them be salty in chat

[visual stream]

Or alternatively inhales four hits of the joint on hot mic and is too inebriated to play well

[full nebula]

These nerds, I can do drugs and still play well smh. Skill issue.

[grizzled aspen]

I'm gonna say it. If I was playing my psyker that match I'd have clutched. @frozen kernel

[hybrid jewel]

I mean, try playing with someone complaining about no ammo after eating 95% of the map's ammo and 6 out of 8 ammo crate charges.

[grizzled aspen]

That sounds like it would only happen once and I'd never play with that person again.

[frozen kernel]

I play Arma with a lite milsim group occasionally. They’ve got one dude who’s very sweet don’t get me wrong, but I can literally hear him breathe through his vape and not being able to hear where he takes an exhale gives me literal anxiety

[full nebula]

You guys need to be more vocal lmao, if people are gonna jump into my squad and do that shit I'm just gonna tell them it's because they're fucking wasting it all

[violet hornet]

imperium's most ammo conservative rumbler ogryn be like

[hybrid jewel]

This is on top of having a survivalist vet around them.

[grizzled aspen]

Yeah whoever this is needs to be beaten with hammers.

[full nebula]

I haven't had too many issues, but if people are gonna do that shit they can get booted from the squad and cry about it.

[hybrid jewel]

Bolter zealot.

[frozen kernel]

New age gamers tend to take any criticism of their gameplay as criticism of their character, I gotta weigh the odds of causing a crashout vs tolerating some moron for one match

[grizzled aspen]

I would put money on either them being a boltgun zealout who likes their boltgun a little too much or a recon vet.

Had this typed out before you replied lmao.

[vast basin]

I've had a gunlugger ogryn join my civi pub, empty his entire reserves in the first room, then ping I need ammo about 12 times before realizing what the maelstrom was

[frozen kernel]

One time went “hey you wanna play the team game with the fireteam, zealot?” because I had to pick him up off the floor after he ran ahead and got pancaked

He literally had the audacity to clap back with “I’m loner, worry bout urself”

I fucking hate gamers so much

[grizzled aspen]

I want a mod that automatically vote kicks someone if they get pancaked...

[vast basin]

He proceeded to leave when we got on voice to tell him to read

[full nebula]

Nobody can be an adult about anything, everythings gonna be spoonfed like you're a fucking baby because you might take shit personally. If someone's taking some bullshit in a videogame that personally, then I'm sorry, I hope you do take it as an attack, because you're a moron.

[hybrid jewel]

Good thing there was a staffker and my vet cares not for ammo that much. Maybe a tin if things get too much. And the other Zealot was just relic relic relic.

[remote lark]

tau banned forever

[grizzled aspen]

@tawdry leaf he beating your ass in 4k in here.

[frozen kernel]

I give Tau credit. They genuinely improved immediately after being told about the DS special

Even if it was going from getting pancaked 5 times down to only 2, that’s improvement

[grizzled aspen]

Still had to be told like 12 times that skullcrusher requires him to stagger enemies to be worth anything lmao.

[tawdry leaf]

Okay, lets add a mod that immediately bans someone after they down themselves trying to throw a fucking knife

[remote lark]

he's gonna say something about me popping on knives-

[vast basin]

Speaking of Ds special, why does it just not open bulwarks when I poke them in the head sometimes?

[grizzled aspen]

Bulwarks have certain frames of stagger immunity bc fatshark and they have a slight cooldown to how often they can be staggered.

[remote lark]

certain animations render them immune to being opened up
basically if they're doing anything other than swinging at u you can't open them up
also if they're getting ready to do an action (theres no animation for this because fuck you)

[vast basin]

I see

[remote lark]

i dodge slide to my left (their right) and heavy stab -> special and usually that either kills them orrr i just do half their health/oneshot them anyway so it doesn't matter

[hybrid jewel]

So don't throw throwing knifes, kay.

[grizzled aspen]

I tell Lumii that psyker is fun repeatedly
he finally takes the psyker pill
"Frog, psyker is so fun!"
"Didn't I tell ya?"

[frozen kernel]

@tawdry leaf Imo ur only problem -that won’t just become better over time- is daring to argue efficiency with acoustic players

If frog tells you to do something it’s either 100% a decent option or it’s blatant trolling. You learn to distinguish the differences

[grizzled aspen]

He didn't understand how skullcrusher made shovel good at killing armor and I had to explain 40% damage and 100% rending on top of damage talents makes shovel really good.

Either throw a shredder at your feet or voc and skullcrusher instantly lets you remove an issue.

[spare talon]

are you talking about the incorrect shovel or the correct shovel

[hybrid jewel]

I thought funny bonk noises would have explained concussion damage done.

[grizzled aspen]

Uncanny skullcrusher mk1 as a fallback weapon.

[frozen kernel]

I play this game like the national guard so if he’s like “there’s a hyper specific interaction with this talent where if you do XYZ, the enemies implode” I’m not gonna go “Yeah whatever man I think it’s shit”

[tawdry leaf]

good lord what is this shit on tau night? i know im shit at this game but give me a fucking break 😭

[spare talon]

special (40%) > push (80%) > push attack overhead (hits at 80%)

[frozen kernel]

I will however go “Fuck you Frog I’m doing something stupid” and run smite, then not cast it for the entire mission to prove a point

[grizzled aspen]

(you died like a dog because you couldn't weave assail)

[frozen kernel]

I didn’t have assail to weave against 7 crushers and a stairwell

[remote lark]

i picked up psyker and immediately started mogging everyone
it has so much kill potential its ridiculous
idk how psykers dont get a billion kills a game

[grizzled aspen]

Didn't I tell ya?

[frozen kernel]

I told you it was my “brain off pug slayer” class for a reason

Whenever there’s a dirty auric mael I just crutch soyker when I get tired of playing zealot and having a sword with performance anxiety

Book leaves you sitting there with your dick in your hands praying that the randos stop nose picking and kill shit

Bubble lets you create cover and get back to work

[grizzled aspen]

Shriek and scriers both let you just straight up remove the issue though.

500 gunners? I'm immune to ranged attacks bro, come at me/I'm gonna yell really loud now and it's gonna make your soul literally melt.

[frozen kernel]

Book Zealot, Gunker, and Exe Stance Boltgun Vet are the holy trinity of Brain Off

[grizzled aspen]

Exe stance boltgun is fun asf and anybody that doesn't like it is either a contrarian or a smoothbrain.

[vast basin]

I miss chastising with bolbgun and killing like 8 crushers

[hybrid jewel]

Or someone who has no ammo to use because the vet grabs everything.

[bitter anvil]

greeting pink furry username

[frozen kernel]

But Frog, plasma is the be all end all veteran weapon. John Reddit YouTube said so

[grizzled aspen]

Now I must find a quality video to watch while I consume rashuns. (chicken fried steak and potatoes w gravy)

[bitter anvil]

it is not the autistic femboy one?

[frozen kernel]

There’s only one?

I count six in the room right now

[spare dome]

yea but i dont post on youtube

[frozen kernel]

(I just counted all of us)

I got some bitchin lo mein earlier

[full nebula]

We need more human ranged weapons, obligatory more ogryn weapons too

[spare dome]

i dont wanna see a single new ogryn weapon before they actually rework his tree ngl

[full nebula]

^

[frozen kernel]

For April fools…Let veteran wield the kickback, let Ogryn use the boltgun

Let zealot use the FGS/purg, let psyker use the relic/flamer

[spare dome]

id love to see an ogryn full auto fire an inapropriately-sized boltgun like a tiny derringer from his palm

[full nebula]

Scriers gaze boltgun when

[vast basin]

Nah give ogryn plasma instead

[frozen kernel]

I was thinking about that but it didn’t seem as funny. Ogryn with human size boltgun holding it like a deagle

[hybrid jewel]

Big shovel vet. Or gib the big knoife.

[frozen kernel]

VETERAN WITH BIG KNIFE

[vast basin]

Pickaxe zealot

[frozen kernel]

No power greatsword, but here’s a comically large buck knife for April fools

[hybrid jewel]

BEEG KNOIFE YES. NYOOM SLASH STAB SLASH.

[obtuse stirrup]

hold it sideways

[spare dome]

veteran holding a bull butcher in the start screen the same way you hold an eviscerator

[frozen kernel]

Use PGS animations for the extra disrespect.

Character realistically holds it in two hands, and people can joke “yeah you got PGS just no battery”

[sterile basalt]

For April fools have psyker shout “testicular torsion” when they cast brain rupture

[full nebula]

I want a human knife that's a prison shank. Lotta fast horizontal pokes

[obtuse stirrup]

give it the hand twist animation too

[spare dome]

ive been sayin this for YEARS!! gimme the twist and also have the heretics go "ow, my groin!" and fall over like in that stupid simpsons skit about the football to the groin

[obtuse stirrup]

Hans Nurgleman

[hybrid jewel]

Go nyoom with Moonlight mk6 animations?

[spare dome]

it works on so many levels!

[frozen kernel]

Moonlight MK6 is the FGS but god yes, she’s probably my favorite weapon in the game

I still think MkX PGS anims on a comically large knife would be hilarious. The stab in the light combo? I’m crying

[tawdry leaf]

@remote lark when you gettin off work

[hybrid jewel]

Thing is, PGS weh? Unless you mean relic or power sword.

[frozen kernel]

PGS short for power greatsword, in game it’s the relic blade yeah

[hybrid jewel]

I still rather the FGS mk6 pattern lul.

[full nebula]

Gimmie a human shank with a punch special light combo

[obsidian prairie]

Do they know

[full nebula]

Similar to cleaver but minus the cleaver part, just the stabs

[fleet zealot]

Only weapon i need ogryn to have is thugshot

Until it’s in the game my experience will never be complete

[obsidian prairie]

GG pilebunker variant
NEED

[frozen kernel]

Fair does. I just figured since veteran never got the greatsword variant of the power sword they had, it would be haha funni joke to give an absurdly large knife (some may call…a sword) the moveset of the actual power greatsword

[fleet zealot]

The ogryn revolver will be real

[frozen kernel]

Manifest Ogryn revolver. Become Hellboy with extra chromosomes

[full nebula]

^

[hybrid jewel]

So the heat is just the rage of said vet not getting their weapon.

[frozen kernel]

Christoph_Waltz_bingo_inglorious_bastards.gif

[fleet zealot]

Some wild looking ferrets posted in psyker chat

[frozen kernel]

We will be liberated soon, pilgrims. Before or on Valentines Day says the oracle

[full nebula]

Good Samaritan would be great, the revolver already 1shots crushers. Just make it bigger revolver and infinite cleave

[fleet zealot]

Actually those may be otters, or a wild mustelid lemmo check the page isn’t in english

[frozen kernel]

Special pistol whip needs to deal enough damage to one shot most specialists on headshot

[fleet zealot]

No the ogryn revolver will be the thugshot, cause you only need one bullet

[frozen kernel]

Jus karate choppin a dog outta de air wif yor big shootah

[hybrid jewel]

Elephant killer?

[full nebula]

Just give it shit ammo economy and let it cleave a couple ogryns whatever. I'll leave the mechanics of shit to others I'm 2 st00pid

[frozen kernel]

Same brother, same

[full nebula]

Thugshots in the datamined stuff, be neat. Dedicated ogryn revolver would be cool too

[grizzled aspen]

Please stop giving shit ammo econ weapons to ogryn. We already have it bad enough with rumbler only having like 20 shots.

[fleet zealot]

Kickback ate all the ammo economy

[grizzled aspen]

I would like for kickback to get a little bit of ammo taken away and for rumbler to be given a little more ammo. 36 or so shots in reserve sounds fair.

[obsidian prairie]

Wrong
Kickback gets Rumbler's entire reserve

[grizzled aspen]

Ogryn also just flat out needs to have some form of selfishness to his kit outside of pbb as an ult. Every class has selfishness but his. It's very annoying to be forced into a playstyle like that.

[full nebula]

Ok good ammo economy slowish reload

[fleet zealot]

HH side is pretty selfish

[grizzled aspen]

I dont think rewarding the player for basic function can be considered selfish, tbh.

The main draw of ogryns toughness generation in melee is heavy attacks, and all of these selfish nodes you speak of just buff heavy attacks. Can't really be considered selfish.

[hard nexus]

it’s a crowd control class, it’s “selfishness” is just knocking over and killing things

[fleet zealot]

Im baffled by your definition of selfishness then

[delicate shadow]

VoC is confirmed selfless

[hard nexus]

mine or frogs

[fleet zealot]

Frogs obv

[grizzled aspen]

My main gripes with the class is that gunlugger fucking sucks, the structure of the class means your needs come last (vet needs ammo, psyker needs healing, etc) except in the case of grenades, if you even take a grenade (rocks are alright), and the strong nodes in the tree are either expensive to grab or cannot be pathed to without doing dumb shit.

Like why soften them up is locked to box and frag bomb is beyond me, that makes no sense.

[delicate shadow]

idk why zealot's needs would be above Ogryn's

if anything Zealot has the lowest need of anything

[fleet zealot]

I need martyrdom!!!

[hard nexus]

i just wish fatshark could make multiple changes at once

[grizzled aspen]

And this right here is because of how zealouts tree is structured, too. We are shoehorned into tknives because second wind is the only viable toughness gen we have and it's too expensive to grab it and path differently.

[vague depot]

i need more kills

[fleet zealot]

No no i wont agree with second wind being the only viable, the best by far yes

[grizzled aspen]

If we were to take a step back and look at zealout without tknives, they definitely have needs above ogryns.

[vague depot]

i need a fire barrel

[hard nexus]

it lets us contend with shooters from range without getting absolutely melted

[delicate shadow]

it's not the only viable pathing, also everyone says zealot nades are apparently garbo so they wouldn't be prio over say, ogryn bomb (Ogryn box sucks but idk why anyone would bring it except for memes)

[fleet zealot]

EWEW still does it’s job it’s just not ridic 8% amount it was pre patch 13. On heavy attack kill is great for any heavy spam weapon. They need to clear up blood replenishment more and yea fortitude in fellowship is dogwater

[grizzled aspen]

@fleet zealot you look at zealouts toughness gen talents and you say that the others are viable.

[delicate shadow]

(they're viable, they're just not broken af like second wind)

[fleet zealot]

Zealot has multiple nades+ they aren’t extremely impactful so bottom of nade prio

You are just expected to hold in case of emergency 3x before you are allowed to look at a nade pickup

That being said idk how they could make the nades better without making them ridic busted. Maybe a bit bigger immo nades? Stun buffed will probably just be a pocket smyker

[grizzled aspen]

Zealout grenades are strong, they just suffer the issue I said before, with second wind being the only viable toughness generation talent we have in high difficulties and being a 4 point tax if you want a grenade.

[obsidian prairie]

Shorter fuse on stuns

[fleet zealot]

I could see that but i dont think it would change viability

[grizzled aspen]

And you wanna know why I claim the other toughness sources aren't viable? Go look at vet's toughness gen talents compared to zealouts and how easily accessible they are.

[fleet zealot]

Yea but only ck, shout and the toughness share matters

[grizzled aspen]

That's hilarious. You've never touched exhilarating takedown, have you?

[delicate shadow]

that's certainly a way to look at it if you wanna not actually look at the viability of zealot's other paths

[grizzled aspen]

If: bullets
Then: immortal
That's what exhilarating takedown is. Also Out for Blood is strictly a direct upgrade to Voice of Terra.

[fleet zealot]

The other 2 up top are worse than our options imo, takedown is alright but with high difficulty spawns CK shout and share is all you need

Exhilariting takedown is not invincibility lmao, losing a ton of tdr value to your already high diminishing returns and while handy for shooter swarms, you have shout for those

[copper hawk]

What if i grabbed u and shook u like the maneater from lethal company

[grizzled aspen]

Second Wind level toughness generation on headshot kills +30% tdr for doing said toughness generation is nuts.

[fleet zealot]

What if i sprayed you with weed killer

[hard nexus]

floran 9/11

[grizzled aspen]

"Muh shout" I haven't touched on abilities for a reason, we are strictly looking at toughness generation comparisons. Zealout has the worst toughness generation nodes in the game, barring Second Wind. This isn't a debate on this point, this is a fact.

[fleet zealot]

30% on a class with mandatory iron will and close order drill and shout

[copper hawk]

Also not separated by 4 talent points, also they provide double buffs lmfao (Exhil)

[delicate shadow]

I mean Vet toughness gen is very very good but also he's still more vulnerable in melee than zealot, regardless of if you run second wind or not. Zealot's alternate pathings are plenty viable and the only time you're gonna have potential issues is high havocs but those aren't a litmus for "viable"

[fleet zealot]

Shout is toughness gen tho? Just like fotf and especially like chorus

Also vet has terrible base toughness regen,

[grizzled aspen]

??? It's 5% on melee kill what are you on about?

[vague depot]

what monster was that again

[copper hawk]

45% tness + 30% tdr on 3 headshots in 8 seconds

[fleet zealot]

Lmao do you run keystoneless vet with all 3 toughness gen talents or what

[grizzled aspen]

Blind dog I think.

[delicate shadow]

like psyker arguably has better toughness generation methods than zealot (barring second wind) but psyker's still gonna crumple over a lot sooner than zealot ever will

[vague depot]

oh those guys i have a mech keyboard so they are always on my ass

[copper hawk]

Oh my god these are nuts, agree w frog once again

[fleet zealot]

Wait since when is ET 8 fucking seconds hold on. This shit was ass during the feat days and everyone took confirmed kill

[grizzled aspen]

That has to do with psyker players being terrible more than anything.

[copper hawk]

Zealot only has second wind, one of our two other tness options is bugged and doesnt work as advertised

[delicate shadow]

no I mean like, Psyker is plainly less durable even comparing without second wind

[grizzled aspen]

Psyker players crumple in melee because the class is designed not to avoid taking damage by dodging, blocking, or having tdr, but by directly removing the problems before they can have a chance to hurt you.

[fleet zealot]

Psyker is more,

[copper hawk]

Vet gets 5% extra tness on ANY kill, and we get a pittance ONLY on heavy kill - which stacks ADDITIVELY with the other tness option ALSO only two points away

[fleet zealot]

Whats the word, avoidance durability and a ton of toughness gen? And KD as well

[delicate shadow]

plus Zealot has FOTF every 10 seconds which is a 50% toughness regen

[rustic bobcat]

looking through pins for revolver builds, what am i looking for? im looking for the dump stat specifically

[grizzled aspen]

Something about a broken clock being right twice a day or whatever.

[copper hawk]

You spend 8 points to get all the tness talents in zeals tree, 6 for vet

[delicate shadow]

like you absolutely can go without second wind and be completely fine in everything except maybe high havocs

[fleet zealot]

Dump mobility

[grizzled aspen]

No, you dump reload on revolvers, smh.

[copper hawk]

Naaaah idk second wind is just too nuts; especially with a dense in-the-fray combat character.. you will die to shooters, or shooter chip

[fleet zealot]

Only on weapon spec vet lol

[delicate shadow]

idk run a bunch of maelstrom without second wind, you'll be fiiiine

[grizzled aspen]

No, just in general, you dump reload. It's a 4% speed difference between 60-80% vs a 12% sprint speed diff between 60-80% mobility.

[fleet zealot]

I run havoc without second wind but that’s cause i go mid path

[copper hawk]

It's tness for doing your job - and a lot of it at once, much like exhil and confirmed kill

[rustic bobcat]

ogryn has ogrynomicon, psyker has athaenum, veteran has hammer of the emperor, what's the name of the zealot guide?

[fleet zealot]

Unless ur melee is slow as balls you aren’t going to be sprinting around with revolver. And the slow ass melee prefer a different weapon

[delicate shadow]

nothing, there isn't one

[obsidian prairie]

#zealot-class

[copper hawk]

Lmfao vet gets 45% + 10% (20% over a few seconds) plus tdr from exhil and close order on 3 headshot kills

[rustic bobcat]

damn, really? alright then

[fleet zealot]

Zealot class discord

[median steeple]

not like we need it anyway all our shit is the same anyways

[obsidian prairie]

Zealot guide ^

[copper hawk]

REWORK OUR TALENTS PLEASE AND MY LIFE IS URS ROUNDFISH

[rustic bobcat]

collateral on bistol, dump or no

[grizzled aspen]

This is the main point I'm making with zealout toughness gen being ass. "Just be in melee" isn't enough, everyone is always in melee, and we don't generate nearly the same amount of toughness as other classes.

[delicate shadow]

uh, Ogryn is also a "just be in melee" class in that regard

[copper hawk]

It's objectively more tness and effective tness via tdr than ours by a significant margin lol

[delicate shadow]

your toughness gen falls off a cliff the moment you're not in melee on oggy

[grizzled aspen]

Even fucking psyker generates more than we do because they throw a handful of assail darts for 7.5% per kill.

Ogryn has other sources of toughness regen, like braced toughness talent being free, even if it's bugged and generates too much.

[copper hawk]

Second wind is only 15% too, and doesnt stack - exhil stacks each headshot for 8 seconds and provides tdr

[copper hawk]

Oh, for up to 45% tness at 3 stacks with 30% tdr

[fleet zealot]

Psyker generated a shit ton lol

[grizzled aspen]

That actually reminds me, we have zero ways of generating toughness without fighting anything.

Vet has Catch a Breath, psyker has Quietude and Warp Expenditure, ogryn has braced toughness (can't remember the name of it).

[copper hawk]

At least ogryn gets a fuck ton of tness back on left click, and all the tness gen nodes r right next to eachother lol i cant out tree sucks

[north sedge]

Buff zealot (move 3 nodes and make everyone angry)

[delicate shadow]

we have zero ways of generating toughness without fighting anything.
Fotf, Chorus, hell even stealth has a toughness gen node

[fleet zealot]

Toughness for critting, toughness for warp kill, toughness for peril generated, toughness for peril quelled, toughness for soulblaze enemy dying, and then the keystones and dome extension

[rustic bobcat]

someone remind me really quick what bistol wants for both blessings and perks

[hard nexus]

notice how frog listed none abilities

[grizzled aspen]

Again, I am not mentioning abilities on purpose because everyone is just gonna say vet doesn't need to be compared because "muh shout."

[copper hawk]

I guess doing anything would be better way to say it, which is true - vet has ewew but 8m and with more tness generated than ewew

[fleet zealot]

Fortitude in fellowship

[delicate shadow]

I mean we can't ignore abilities when they're up every 10 seconds lmao, at that point we're comparing different games

[carmine falcon]

fotf toughness is goated and fury benefits are also goated (the effect that triggers after u kill 25 mfs)

[naive stirrup]

that is piety

[grizzled aspen]

The effect is called fury.

[north sedge]

Ok but your have to admit zealot has worse toughness generation than Blaze in Streets of Rage

[delicate shadow]

trigger stalwart by letting your team kill 25 things around you

[naive stirrup]

shrimple

[grizzled aspen]

We are comparing toughness generation talents only because bringing abilities into the mix makes people go "hurr durr vet just needs to shout harder."

[copper hawk]

I fucking cant man. 2.5% tness (also bugged) for being around 3 WHOLE ENEMIES and vet gets ONE talent that generates 5% (not bugged) for being a toothpick's distance away from enemies ?????

[grizzled aspen]

If you look at toughness gen nodes and think "That's OK, I have FOTF all the time!" you are just neglecting the underlying problem.

[copper hawk]

Guh frog is troothing

[grizzled aspen]

Something about a broken clock...

[delicate shadow]

I mean zealot's tree and pathing needs a touch up but alternate paths are still absolutly viable in the vast majority of content. Y'all are severely overexaggerating

[hard nexus]

(which, on an unrelated tangent, is a severe problem because that shows off how good IoD is compared to the other CDRs)

[copper hawk]

Needs a buff. 5% tness for being out of combat while the in combat tness generation talent is only 2.5% but requires 3 enemies in a horde melee combat game is unacceptable.

[delicate shadow]

even post nerf, yeah. CDR talents on all classes need fixing though. IMO nothing should be providing more than 30% effective CDR

[copper hawk]

Vet killing 6 pox hounds

[grizzled aspen]

We must have significantly different definitions of what "viable" means, then. Running zealout without Second Wind is like pathing right on vet and taking Tac Reload and no toughness gen at all.

[delicate shadow]

I mean, you absolutely do not need second wind to be comfortable on Auric Mael

[copper hawk]

Someone link the clip cole had where he kills loke 5 specialists w a shotgun and ults back to back to back

[grizzled aspen]

To be comfortable? Yeah, yeah I do need Second Wind. I can survive without it but it's not fun.

[hard nexus]

i disagree, zealot was build with CDR in mind, as each keystone has easy access to it, and a 30 second cooldown for a single higher damage attack and an attack speed buff is too long to only reduce by a max of 10s

alternatively, decrease the cooldown for chastise, then nuke IoD

[delicate shadow]

this is where I call skissue

[sterile basalt]

if I say what I think I will be banished from zealot chat forever

[full nebula]

[delicate shadow]

yea Chastise having a low base cooldown would be prefereable

[grizzled aspen]

Do it, we are actually being civil for right now.

[copper hawk]

I rember gale crashin out over me pointin out that 6 specialists gives you an ult with Vet, and I called it the never have i ever (killed 6 specialists in quick succession) talent .. i callz it that naow

[hard nexus]

and i can bring a dclaw 1 into auric mael and win

[naive stirrup]

second wind becomes a crutch if you're not used to other classes

[fleet zealot]

Slim vs chonky ferret in psyker chat

[copper hawk]

Back in my day we only had atlatls 2 fight wars.. r we rlly makin Fudd-coded arguments over Zealot not needing reworked toughness talents ??

[delicate shadow]

I never argued that lmao

[grizzled aspen]

Frankly, I feel more durable playing gunker than I do playing zealout. 53% tdr at basically all times + fat damage + fat toughness gen is so good.

[delicate shadow]

like literally no where did I argue that

[fleet zealot]

Ferrets have such wonderful diversity in size and coats and coloration i love them

[naive stirrup]

i've just not been taking it on zealot lately idk
but same on the psyker thing

[carmine falcon]

if they're gonna fix stuff i'd rather be given a reason to take IoD off, its superior to the others for my playstyle at least
make the rest as intresting

[delicate shadow]

but I think saying zealots other paths simply aren't viable is like...you've been brain rotted by the powercreep at that point I think

[sterile basalt]

both duellist and second wind deserve sizeable nerfs
second wind nerf can come after zealot's talent tree structure is made more approachable, but it can use a small nerf (maybe from 15% to 10~12%)
duellist can either be changed to +finesse (between 50~100%, maybe 60% or 70%), or +20~30% damage, or keep as crit and weakspot but both values get nerfed

problem with duellist is due to how finesse bonuses are calculated which results in massive damage increase for very specific weapons

[copper hawk]

Slaps roof of gizmo. Yeaaahhh,, dont need none that new fangled tness regen ,, u can get by w just this like me grandpappy did in any gosh darn auric mael ,, now junior pass me that thar dclaw ,, they done ruined this game w adm changez ,,

[grizzled aspen]

Again, look at what Meow said about mk1 dclaw. You can take whatever you want and argue that it's viable because you clear with it, does not mean it's strong.

[delicate shadow]

strong and viable are two different things

[remote lark]

defining "viable" is the crux of the build pathing argument i think

[copper hawk]

The downvote has breached containment

[grizzled aspen]

I will not accept a second wind nerf, especially considering how vet and psyker talents fare against zealouts, but you're right on duellist.

[copper hawk]

DONT MAKE THIS MAN A PLAYTESTER !! ILL BUY STOCK IN SWEDISH FISH !! ILL DO ANYTHIN !!

[delicate shadow]

I think if you can realtistically and reasonably do all content barring high havoc (unless you're just cracked like that and can do it anyway) then it's viable.

[hard nexus]

i should be a playtester….

[grizzled aspen]

Unless, of course, you are also for vet and psyker toughness gen getting lobotomized to make up for nerfing second wind.

[delicate shadow]

ideally it'd be part of a tree rebalancing.

[obsidian prairie]

I should be a playtester so I can go "Wow cool" like a month in advance

[remote lark]

@tepid sorrel do you go Wow Cool?

[frozen kernel]

Weird. I remember the difference between like 60% reload speed revolver and 79% reload speed felt massive on zealot, but maybe I was just used to laspistol

[hard nexus]

any weapon, and any build, with a good enough player, can do anything

does not mean it’s “viable”

[carmine falcon]

nerfing cool abilities when the game's idea of incrasing difficulty is throwing 10000 carpace armors at you is not the way

[sterile basalt]

other toughness gain talents can be made better to compensate, like making blood redemption be +4% instead of +2.5%
while it's really cool and fun, I think encouraging kills for toughness is ultimately healthier than "dodge everything and keep toughness up forever"

I should have added this as a caveat to what I said above, tbh

[copper hawk]

Nerf any class i dont play

[grizzled aspen]

Then I believe you should reconsider your stance on that.

[copper hawk]

U should be a moldtester Meow

[delicate shadow]

all I'm saying is there are plenty of people who aren't even that good, who are doing auric+ with alternate paths and high havoc is a totally different ballpark

[fleet zealot]

Stun nades chaxe martyrdom no cdr like the god emperor intended

[hard nexus]

aurics are relatively pretty easy lmfao

actually not even relatively, if someone is decent at the game, they can clear aurics often enough

[delicate shadow]

they are, because of how powercrept the game is for the most part

[fleet zealot]

Damnation is still in the feats era of balance and auric is just more stuff, not necessarily harder

[carmine falcon]

i mean most of the playerbase doesnt touch aurics and those missions are still pretty tough for people who havent been playing forever (like me)

[misty ravine]

Keystoneless Stealth Zealot

[copper hawk]

Id actually be okay w this ,, if they buffed the talents to be in line w Vet talents, eg changing EWEW to be like CaB except with enemies

[remote lark]

I define "viable" as strong, because realistically almost any build combination you have is "viable", even for mid players

anyone can take a mid relic blade with no talents and probably clear some aurics lol

When ppl ask for "a build", contextually they arent usually asking for a pile of shit, they want something viable strong

[fleet zealot]

Havoc is it’s own can of worms but everything is damnation viable and most things are auric viable

[copper hawk]

More tness on kill like exhil on heavies - they have the rulebook w Vet, port it over to the other classes

[delicate shadow]

and like if High Havoc becomes your baseline for balance, the rest of the game quickly becomes irrelevant and stuff will be super powercrept in all content EXCEPT high havoc

[remote lark]

same reason pro play ruins shooters!

[fleet zealot]

Actual heresy

[copper hawk]

Idk if anyone is arguing at that extreme aquino; bear in mind that the devs balance around malice as well for some gloopin rsn

[sterile basalt]

I think it would be reasonable if other toughness gain talents are better

vicious offering is good but severely out of reach for most builds
EWEW is ok but takes 2 points to get and is away from the obvious path
voice of terra is sorta in ??? tier that I had to look up its name
and blood redemption is just Veteran's O4B 0.5

all of the above can be made either directly better (like blood redemption) or be made much more accessible (like vicious offering)

[naive stirrup]

game should be balanced around normal board damnation in my opinion. maybe auric damn now that havoc is a thing

[fleet zealot]

But why does fatshark simply buff damage on everything to be havoc 40 viable? -General chat probably

[remote lark]

because they play in malice :^)

[delicate shadow]

again though I do want to make it clear, zealot tree in general needs rebalancing. Toughness gen across all classes needs rebalancing tbh

[sterile basalt]

yea I rly should have typed both parts out at the same time

[carmine falcon]

i thought the game was balanced around damnation? malice is literal baby mode after u play for 10 hours

[remote lark]

coherency needs a buff and toughness gen needs a nerf is my 2 cents

[fleet zealot]

The game should be balanced period lol but havoc made it 10x worse if they want more stuff to be havoc viable without making stuff ridic op in normal damn or below

[naive stirrup]

i know someone with more than a few hundred hours in exclusively malice

[hard nexus]

one of these days this game will get a massive balance overhaul and the game will be super duper balanced and crushers will feel dangerous and the classes will get finally pushed towards their intended roles and ds4 will be just removed or at least given a parry and all will be good

[grizzled aspen]

Here's what I think regarding buffing other toughness talents:

EWEW becomes 5% when no enemies are within 12.5m, 2.5% when enemies are within 12.5m (fatshark definition of "close" for blessings like dumdum).
Vicious Offering becomes 5% bonus toughness on heavy kills and 2.5% bonus toughness light kills, then move this to middle tree.

Not exactly sure what to do with either Voice of Terra or Blood Redemption.

[carmine falcon]

ig if they wanna chillax i cna see the appeal but its not even the same game with how empty the missions feel
wow i like beating up chaff with the occasional elite

[naive stirrup]

believe it or not, it's not you lumii lmao

[delicate shadow]

I'd say auric damn is probably the best baseline at this point yea

[fleet zealot]

But if you buff it back to 5%, it will actually be 8% and that was OP /qj

[grizzled aspen]

It's Dorn.

[hard nexus]

it’s you

[remote lark]

Why does the darktide server reccomend me this as a popular emoji @delicate shadow

[grizzled aspen]

How about fatshark fuckin code it right then lmao?

[naive stirrup]

maybe my first 30 hours were

[delicate shadow]

this discord is very lactose tolerant

[fleet zealot]

Yea malice with friends is a snoozefest for me

[hard nexus]

i fuckin love milk

[remote lark]

I'm no longer going to mpreg react people. I'm going to udder them.

[frozen kernel]

Well said. We were yapping earlier about randos that abruptly join the strike team who are used to “chilling” playing malice, so they get corpse dragged clobbered while sweating bullets with us, meanwhile we’re just “chilling” in auric maels using meme shit

[grizzled aspen]

[fleet zealot]

Normal damn is too easy for me, i have to play auric damn to feel something and it’s nice and comfy

[carmine falcon]

what if you use none meta weapons

[remote lark]

The average player from this discord is a nightmare.

Aquino knows. I woke him up at like 1am talking about a psycho who joined our vc.

[violet hornet]

Get milked

[grizzled aspen]

YOU CANT SAY THAT

[hard nexus]

i almost never do

[obsidian prairie]

Elaborate

[frozen kernel]

^ It gets to a point where even if you’re chilling, you’re basically turning the game off for those 3 noobs who are just dipping their toes into Damnation for the first time

[naive stirrup]

i get called an elitist when i say i refuse to touch normal board unless im playing with a friend who's newer at the game

[sterile basalt]

I think EWEW should be higher when enemies are in melee distance, lower when enemies are out of melee distance
as for the rest, can't say for certain without seeing the restructured talent tree model
I honestly like how vicious offering works rn, it's just severely out of reach 95+% the time

[delicate shadow]

you don't wanna know

[north sedge]

Ah you missed the best blog post i see

[grizzled aspen]

Meow is the mk3 evisc connoisseur. Trust me, she runs mid weapons.

[carmine falcon]

you're clearing havoc with the gimped evis maybe you're just cracked idk

[obsidian prairie]

You underestimate my desire to know fucking everything

[hard nexus]

perslaps

ohg btw i never did stream my gameplay to you, do u still want me to?

[naive stirrup]

i believe you
yet my "im sickened but curious" thoughts are popping up now

[remote lark]

Some dude joined and started talking about how down bad he was for 17 year olds in front of tau, a 17 year old

I clipped it all and got gawain to force join the vc as the dude was talking about it again

It was so fucking funny

[violet hornet]

Only thammer all the time just to kill daemonhosts in front of newbies

[grizzled aspen]

Oh I did EWEW backwards then lol, I wanted it to gen more toughness in melee but still passively do stuff when not in melee. Vicious Offering, I find, is in a bad spot and does not synergize with the left tree, it feels martyr-based.

[delicate shadow]

yeah. Gross stuff.

[obsidian prairie]

How the fuck are these people even real

[remote lark]

Gawain smited him

[grizzled aspen]

Can confirm, I have heard the clips. Nasty piece of work.

[frozen kernel]

“Immune to cringe and legally classified as an invasive species”

[obsidian prairie]

Actual fucking creatures

[carmine falcon]

completely forgot about that cause i got busy and didnt play much but im down for that still, another day tho cause its 7:30 am here and ill go offline soon

[sterile basalt]

the way I read this was so fast that by the time my brain had finished processing what I just read it was all over

[naive stirrup]

what we in the business call "asshat"
to put it lightly

[hard nexus]

yah it’s almost midnight for me, but i’m down later, if you are

[frozen kernel]

I said it earlier I’ll say it again. I hate gameRs

[remote lark]

[grizzled aspen]

Chat, he said it with the hard r. Get his ass.

[obsidian prairie]

This guy is probably using his own mouth as a scarf how far up he is

[naive stirrup]

[frozen kernel]

Costanza makes this so much funnier

[full nebula]

[grizzled aspen]

And on top of everything else...

Tummy hurt.

[frozen kernel]

Fucking Apple autocorrect also believes Constanta is an acceptable spelling

[copper hawk]

This pls

[frozen kernel]

I’m going to open up console and resurrect Steve Jobs just to kill him with hammers

[delicate shadow]

Apple enacting seinfeld revisionism...

[copper hawk]

Agree w path.. wut dis worl comin 2 ,,

[frozen kernel]

Berenstain Bears but Seinfeld

[sterile basalt]

I usually am reasonable and/or sensible

[delicate shadow]

I agreed with Vodka and Path as well 🙂

[remote lark]

silence, pee role

[copper hawk]

The eviscerator latch incident

[hard nexus]

LMFAO

[obsidian prairie]

Guh

[sterile basalt]

(fml no embed what did yall even do)

[carmine falcon]

yeah im down, feel free to ping when you play anytime this week or weekend

[grizzled aspen]

We got a little too silly and or goofy for our own good...

[copper hawk]

LMFAO fucks sake

[delicate shadow]

my lawyers have advised me to not bring up the obvious

[sterile basalt]

since dorn is most likely not gonna finish his guide soon if ever

I might start adding zealot weapons after the rest are done where I'll talk more details abt their mechanics

[copper hawk]

Yeahhhh there r some real fuckin freaks who just randomly join almost full striketeams

[remote lark]

when do we get image perms back

this IS a class channel

[obsidian prairie]

Eventually™️

[grizzled aspen]

Vodka was talking about making a guide a few days ago. Might get in touch with him. Zealout specific melees are just about the only things that need to be touched on because you've already done the heavy lifting with enemy hp, damage numbers, hitmass, etc.

[delicate shadow]

when people stop trying to flirt with the 17 year old...

[fleet zealot]

Just kill them with hammers

[grizzled aspen]

Nobody here is! We actually bully him here! It's funny! :(

[hard nexus]

well……

[frozen kernel]

At face value I totally agree with this statement. I just wonder as a non-VT player what that looks like in the sense of like…

You see on YouTube videos people soloing Cataclysm diff and it’s mostly a lot of kiting, right? My question is…are any of the weapons I see folks doing this with considered the “shredder autopistol” of Vermintide 2 or is that game a good example of “mostly everything is viable, some obv more than others” at this point

[sterile basalt]

zealot actually has really complicated talents
it's just nobody here has enough mental fortitude to go test them apparently

[copper hawk]

Cata is turbo havoc, damnation normal board is like champion

[grizzled aspen]

Mostly everything in vt2 is viable, just that some things are cracked asf, like axe and falchion.

[remote lark]

mee :3

[fleet zealot]

Meta is much more stale in vt2 and for cata you will be limited a bit

[copper hawk]

If havoc 50 or 60 existed it'd be cata and it would be miserable

[hard nexus]

and today i will be playing iron breaker!

(i actually know nothing of VT2 meta)

[frozen kernel]

Gotcha so Darktide is…nowhere near that level of “everything is viable, some more than others” at peak diff?

[grizzled aspen]

You should start suggesting that the dog is too dumb to do it. (he will absolutely do it out of spite, trick his ass into working)

[spare dome]

@safe glade ok i take back what i said about ceaselss barrage i was not familiar with its game (i made an assumption)

[delicate shadow]

it's a process, mostly done

[sterile basalt]

go check if grievous wounds changes stagger breakpoints
for all zealot melee weapons

glhf buddy

[remote lark]

no :3

[sterile basalt]

exactly

[frozen kernel]

Buy more hammers

[grizzled aspen]

I mean, I would figure this could be done numerically rather than actually having to touch anything in psykhanium.

[remote lark]

That doesn't need testing though I can just peek at numbers

[copper hawk]

We're more practice than theory here ,, that'z why all the best darktide playerz r zealot playerz

[sterile basalt]

too bad because not a single in-game weapon inspect table's stagger value is accurate

[fleet zealot]

True, the best multiclassers are zealot mains

[grizzled aspen]

"X weapon does y amount of stagger, increase by 50%, will that do anything or not?"

That sounds pretty easy to me.

[tawdry leaf]

Bro what

[remote lark]

:(

[sterile basalt]

yea, if they were accurate u think I'd bother asking?

[grizzled aspen]

God fucking dammit fatshark, why can't you make things simple...

[remote lark]

We were talking about the dude who joined vc

[tawdry leaf]

OH okay. I remember that😭

[remote lark]

I'll go test them right now. :>
I'll give you a spreadsheet

[tawdry leaf]

I think “flirting” is the wrong word for it ngl

[copper hawk]

Sissy librulz and their numberz ,, just take the dern evisrator and chop tuah !! Grievous woundz makez them ragiez stagger to duh floor my grandmammy alwayz used 2 say ,, spits a fat one into spitoon

[grizzled aspen]

(this is what I meant, Path, trick the dog into working)

[remote lark]

i made like 3 spreadsheets just to prove mk10 was better than mk2 and you still don't listen to me

shut up frog

[fleet zealot]

I miss the days where no one knew chaxe mk4 with punishment could solo mauler and rager packs by just chain staggering them with heavies and PAs

[hard nexus]

mk2 is better though lmfao

[grizzled aspen]

Ok but funny uppercut lets me cleave 3 maulers and oneshot them so you're a noob.

[tawdry leaf]

All that and yet you still failed to throw a fucking knife💔

[carmine falcon]

chop tuah is crazy

[remote lark]

my point exactly
noone listens to data or facts
just "muh mk2" because they like the uppercut

[naive wharf]

any advice/tips on getting unseen assassin and behind enemy lines?

[copper hawk]

yo mama has replaced my hawk tuah brainrot

[naive stirrup]

maybe consider putting zealot chat on probation for a few months
limit shitposting via images and links to a minimum and allow pic perms back just to see if anyone has learned anything
slowly eating away at my soul that i can't effectively answer a question to help someone else without taking significantly longer

[fleet zealot]

Heavy sword or rashad combat axe

[sterile basalt]

for example

dreg rager has 10 stagger threshold and 50 stagger reduction while in combo,
so u need 35 (which is 10 + (50/2)) or higher stagger vs maniac on weakspot hit to stagger them out of combo

chainsword's stagger table says 39 on weakspot vs maniac with heavy1 sweep (Mk IV)
it DOES NOT stagger dreg rager whatsoever

wanna know why? because chainsword's actual stagger vs maniac with heavy1 sweep (Mk IV) is 23.625

[frozen kernel]

Don’t care, punishable by firing squad

[grizzled aspen]

Apparently for horde breakpoints, mk10 is better, but you can achieve the same breakpoints by just not dealing as much damage on purpose.

[fleet zealot]

Knife is the stereotype choice but a brutal momentum/deathblow weapon has up to 4 more kills per swing

[tawdry leaf]

No it was worse than flirting. I’d hardly call it flirting, more like harrassment 💀

[remote lark]

no you can't :)
mk10 horde breakpoints is better because you hit those breakpoints while using stalwart / enduring / scourge
you also get invoc uptime

[delicate shadow]

I do want to get image perms back at least

it's been what? a week or smth now

[fleet zealot]

Zealot chat yearns for my ferret posting

[grizzled aspen]

I hit the same breakpoints by just not taking rampage and taking wrath instead, and I cleave more than you, noobling...

[frozen kernel]

Longer I think, lemme check my email

[naive wharf]

?? wdym by 4 more kills per swing? 4 more kills worth of damage?

[hard nexus]

no it literally is better

better single target, and horde clear on the same level

the light spam scourge idea is neat in concept, if:
A) It actually mattered (you attack often enough to almost always get full IoD value anyway)
B) The reason that the mk2 does worse with scourge wasn’t because it just killed hordes too fast

[copper hawk]

Dont allow embeds so i can rick roll people

[remote lark]

name the break points then

[tawdry leaf]

Maybe remove the cooldown atleast? Idm no image perms but a 30 second cooldown legitimately is annoying. Cutting it down by half would be nice (10-15 seconds)

[obsidian prairie]

2 weeks today

[grizzled aspen]

No. Shit yourself. :)

[delicate shadow]

good god, ok I'll ask

[frozen kernel]

Jan 21st ye

[copper hawk]

Burden of proof on u noob havent u played an ace attorney game b4 @remote lark

[fleet zealot]

Brutal momentum/deathblow blessing makes it so if you kill with a weakspot hit, you don’t lose any damage and cleave to the next target, up to 4 times

[grizzled aspen]

BM makes targets all be considered the "first" as long as you killed the one before him with a headshot, so you have no cleave damage falloff. It's broken as fuck.

[remote lark]

slightly better single target damage on a weapon that oneshots crushers means nothing to me

it has better horde clear and without using piety you can't get full invoc uptime
the reason mk2 does worse with scourge is cause you either spam overheads (bad) or you use heavy attacks (no scourge)

mk10 has better horde clear and mixed horde clear

it also lets you take and recieve the benefits of stalwart/enduring/scourge/invoc while stil lgetting better horde clear than the mk2

the horde clear is not the "same", i posted three separate spreadsheets showing how it's not the same and it is in fact quite better on mk10

[fleet zealot]

Sure knife can kill 1 target per stealth activation, but killing 4 ranged enemies/elites stacked on or near each other will finish the penance must quicker

[carmine falcon]

I can't make the mk2 as effective, i can see it doing bigger funny numbers if i use it right but mk10 is so much easier to use
spam lights for hordes, lights and chain heavies for mixed, 2 heavies and single 1 light for single target
super ez to do in the heat of battle

[naive stirrup]

something like that, definitely need to keep up with punishments as needed for getting too wacky and wild as well. noticed yall been a lot less lenient, and for good reason

[remote lark]

mk2 takes IJ and gets similar but worse horde clear and less invoc uptime and much less tdr

both weapons onetap crushers

its no contest

[grizzled aspen]

"Spam overheads" you do know mk2 has a sweep PA and l3 h2 horde loop right?

[fleet zealot]

Mk10 is more fun to play

[remote lark]

i was referring to the possibility that you spam lights
I know the horde clear combos on mk2
they're still significantly worse than mk10 for clear

[sterile basalt]

I like mk10 solely for swapping combos with PA (I am too lazy to bother learning push combo vs push atk combo)

[delicate shadow]

yeah I went on a bit of a spree to try and get things more stable (nothing unfair, had evidence and such)

[fleet zealot]

I never knew how much a quick stab in my light spam can make mixed hordes fun. Swipe the horde, swipe the horde, stab the mauler in the face

[naive stirrup]

'preciate you

[tawdry leaf]

Can you both stop yapping about nerd number stuff and run some havocs I am SO bored rn bro

[grizzled aspen]

Lumii is at work though?

[remote lark]

you keep referencing "erm actually mk2 hits the same breakpoints"
no it doesn't
i specifically proved it doesn't on three separate occasions
name the breakpoints and cleave values if you're going to make that argument with me
I know them, and I know you don't

[frozen kernel]

Some people have to work for a living 🚬

[grizzled aspen]

(this is the part where Lumii throws hammers at me because I have been bullshitting for like 10min now)

[copper hawk]

Meow better than u lumii so ,, DOWNVOTE !! ONLY COAL 4 U AND UR KIN

[remote lark]

i'm getting irritated at having the same old argument with people who never bothered to do any testing and just go "muh uppercut"

you're wrong, i have empirical data that proves you're wrong, and i'm not going to discuss this any more

mk10 horde clear is better
mk10 recieves much stronger benefits like tdr and invoc uptime
mk2 cannot get full invoc uptime without taking piety, and even if you do, its horde clear rotation means you don't get full invoc uptime
"better single target" means nothing to a weapon that oneshots crushers anyway

i'm so over having to rehash this every time someone mentions the mk2
it's genuinely pissing me off

[frozen kernel]

Only unepic Cole for u and ur kin

[grizzled aspen]

Need embed perms back so I can post the comment from Cica about "YOU WILL BE CHUMMED."

[remote lark]

and just like that, zealot chats embed perms are taken away again :(

[copper hawk]

U will nevr be my grubbe .

[grizzled aspen]

I'm nobody's grub, I just found it funny.

[copper hawk]

U r 10000000% a lumii grub lil bluddy

[frozen kernel]

Yeah your numbers are totally valid and I trust them 120% but hear me out…funny uppercut

[hard nexus]

“heh, that’ll show em”

[grizzled aspen]

Lumii copied my gunker build. (then he fucking RUINED it by taking assail aux nodes that he doesn't need)

[remote lark]

and that's fine!
mk2 is a good weapon and the uppercut is fun
i use it sometimes
its just not better and i hate having to type out the same paragraph 100 times to troglodytes

[obsidian prairie]

Keep it as a text file then

[grizzled aspen]

Hey, that's me! I'm troglodytes!

[remote lark]

i've done this before in an mmo
unironically

[copper hawk]

Ur on the right side of history frog (meow is on that side)

[grizzled aspen]

Actually that gives me a funny name to give myself...

[tawdry leaf]

Still? What time does he get off because I’m trying not to stay up too late for this

[hard nexus]

i can’t bother proving lumi wrong rn considering it’s midnight and i have work but

he’s wrong

[copper hawk]

U cant do that clad says if u change ur name ur attention seeking

[frozen kernel]

why was the super animation for the striated man arms “mopping up a spill”

[remote lark]

because you can't and that's okay meow
it's okay to be wrong
one day you will learn this

[carmine falcon]

wait you guys 1 shot crushers with relic without doing the funny 1- power it up 2- sprint 3- fotf 4- sprint heavy combo?

[grizzled aspen]

2am or so for me so 3 hrs from now.

[misty ravine]

Mk10 Cranial+Wrath is King. Even outside Havoc

[sullen forge]

morgan freeman true nodding gif

[hard nexus]

extremely ironic coming from you

[violet hornet]

Hour 6 of slow mode

[copper hawk]

How it must feel knowin u will never be better than cole or meow ,,

[fleet zealot]

I feel like this relic blade talk reminds me of the heavy swords

[remote lark]

shhhh, you have work
shoo

[grizzled aspen]

So do you, get back to work, wagie.

[remote lark]

i'm home btw i got home a few minutes ago which is why i offered to test things for path
we can do havocs now if you're free
@frozen kernel r u at work?

[fleet zealot]

Both are great and do about the same give or take a tiny bit but people will die on the hill one is trash and one is the best

[carmine falcon]

rampage extra dmg is too nice and i like base cleave so why wrath on a weapon that cleaves the entire map anyway

[copper hawk]

Havoc + scourge

[fleet zealot]

I go rampage leakage cause im a chad martyrdom main

[misty ravine]

Cleave more and harder

[tawdry leaf]

I knew you didnt get off 3 hours from now😭 😭

[frozen kernel]

I’m at work you lucky dog

[grizzled aspen]

Gimme a few minutes to hop on.

[remote lark]

one has better horde clear and benefits from better stats
one has better single target

both versions can oneshot crushers, so i value single target less

that's the crux of it; both are still really strong

[wind dagger]

mk2 and mk10 what? rellic?

[carmine falcon]

ill test it tomorrow just to see mixed hordes fall over and stagger

[tawdry leaf]

When do you get home? How many hours from now?

[frozen kernel]

Normally we get off together (shut up) but today I guess the wageslave diety has blessed Lumi

[remote lark]

just get pneumonia like me then u can be cool

[fleet zealot]

Relic has really high minimum damage so wrath is good but i wouldn’t use it outside of havocs with gas and/or 21st where mass is much more of an issue to cleave through

[misty ravine]

There were times in aurics it wasn't sweeping everything in front of me with Rampage

[frozen kernel]

My immune system is too juiced from licking door knobs in the inner city

[tawdry leaf]

Why do you guys have the most obnoxious work hours man. This is why I don’t have an official job yet😭

[fleet zealot]

Rampage and leakage gives me 56% strength which is perfect for me

[remote lark]

wrath is a viable pick because it gives you permanent scourge uptime which makes its horde clear worse but comparable to rampage

[carmine falcon]

what does leakage do again
i put carnial and rampage and never looked back

[frozen kernel]

Because overnight gigs usually come with a bonus dollar/hr after midnight and morning wake-up’s make me vomit

[remote lark]

i'm in our vc

[fleet zealot]

up to 20% strength based on how full your heat gauge is

[frozen kernel]

I miss day shift though. You really don’t want 5 years without a lot of Sun when you live somewhere that is dark when you get to work and when you leave

[fleet zealot]

Iirc it maxes out at 80 or 90 but i really don’t care and just hover between 50 and 90

[carmine falcon]

ig i could test it over carnial
fk it tomorrow i put wrath and leakage cause why not

[fleet zealot]

Nah

If yoy choose rampage or leakage, rampage every-time 36% strength for cleaving 3 targets east

[frozen kernel]

I run cranial + wrath out of convenience but leakage + rampage sounds funny

[fleet zealot]

Im a silly ferret who runs martyrdom and only cares about raw stat checking with double strength blessings

[carmine falcon]

carnial just lets me stay in the funny mode longer
i might look into max power uptime build cause the sword just melts everything powered up

[fleet zealot]

You can heatsink cranial but imo i feel it’s better to make your sword better regardless of it being on or off vs more uptime but less bonuses

[carmine falcon]

true i like that its strong either way

[frozen kernel]

I ran heatsink cranial when it first first dropped but then we found out that heatsink only really does anything if you lock out

[naive stirrup]

fuck yall up to
could harass for a time

[frozen kernel]

Imo much easier to just QQ at the last second and always have another blessing than just run it to burnout when the director spawns 7 mutant luchadores

[remote lark]

h40

[naive stirrup]

oh so nothing fun

[remote lark]

lul

[misty ravine]

I think you need >90% to get the full bonus

[misty ravine]

More Scourge --> More Crit for muh Benefits

[fleet zealot]

Crit is a crutch

[full nebula]

[misty ravine]

Don't ask what is clutch or we'll get perms taken away again

[copper hawk]

Yo mama

[broken walrus]

Wtf, you gotta label that NSFW

[plain dragon]

Is tac axe viable with shroudfield

[frozen kernel]

I love how it’s not symmetrical

[coarse birch]

Id imagine you could get through a mission with it but it probably wouldn't be particularly great

[remote lark]

upgraded weapons is a crutch

[remote lark]

what is your definition of viable
theres no synergy

[frozen kernel]

I saw that

[remote lark]

@sterile basalt
how much cleave do you need to cleave through different chaff enemies at h40
do you know the values

[sterile basalt]

groaner 4 (chaos horde buff)
poxwalker 4.8 (chaos horde buff)
moebian 21st groaner 4.8 (chaos horde buff)
scab bruiser 3.5
dreg bruiser 2.5
scab shooter 1.5
scab stalker 1.5
dreg stalker 1.75

[remote lark]

whats chaos horde buff

[grizzled aspen]

(this is literally what I was just grilling him for)

Now time to open the Anatheum for the first time, ever.

[remote lark]

Cleave values are just simple addition right?
Something with 10 cleave will pierce through two and then hit the third groaner, right?

[sterile basalt]

chaos faction horde enemies get 1.35x health and 3.2x mass
groaner 300
-> 405 unarmored weakspot

poxwalker 375
-> 506.25 infested weakspot

moebian 21st groaner 625
-> 843.75 unarmored weakspot

groaner 1.25 -> 4 mass
poxwalker 1.5 -> 4.8 mass
moebian 21st groaner 1.5 -> 4.8 mass

(duelling sword's and knife's light atks don't have enough cleave to hit >1 poxwalker or moebian 21st groaner)

[remote lark]

[sterile basalt]

hit 3rd and stop

this is why wrath is valued so much in havoc
high elite spawn rate + high horde mass

[remote lark]

so assail darts with maxed warp splitting and ES would hit 3 chaff worst case
that's still pretty good

[sterile basalt]

assail doesn't follow normal cleave logic and "+cleave" directly increases how many targets it can hit, regardless of their mass

[remote lark]

[remote lark]

so.... can it hit three then?
I don't know how assails logic works.
With warp splitting and ES.

[grizzled aspen]

So I was wrong on the cleave for assail, btw, they apparently (according to Anatheum) hit 2 targets and stop on the 3rd. Ethereal Shards, according to better descriptions mod, increases that to 3 targets, stopping on the 4th. Warp Splitting, at 100% peril, would pierce 8.

[sterile basalt]

check kuli's guide

[remote lark]

in what, havoc?
Here's kulis guide:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1335051597964902430/image0.jpg?ex=67a40931&is=67a2b7b1&hm=c5547631d559592bf9cb433d7530f8b54cde3a86ec9dd34e82e2eb71fbbd18a0&

[grizzled aspen]

So they would pierce 5 with just ES and WS at max peril?

[remote lark]

You know, empowered psionics to use after scriers since you'll always be at max peril might not be a terrible build for normals. Or maybe even havoc.

[grizzled aspen]

I feel like that would be gimping your damage bc no DD though.

[obsidian prairie]

It’s fucking terrifying

[remote lark]

fgs has alot of damage.

[obsidian prairie]

Ask Cole for a EP assail build clip

You can literally never max during scriers just by throwing shards into dense enough horde

[remote lark]

@spare talon i summon thee..

[obsidian prairie]

I think he has a clip where he does like 300 poxwalkers in psyk before capping out

[remote lark]

ugh... i'm gona log back in to look at EP

[spare talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1291176294847090729/Darktide_2024.09.27-19.58_-_Trim.mp4?ex=67a3f0a1&is=67a29f21&hm=0f854a65f82b06756d8198f26047f1a07d7f1ca0f22077469491fcc9675156bd&

FUCK

[remote lark]

holy shit

[grizzled aspen]

Le epic embed fail.

[spare talon]

#psyker-class message
heres a link to the embed

[remote lark]

-3 knives btw

left or right for ep @spare talon

[spare talon]

elites
always

[obsidian prairie]

Infinite shards vs shotgunners and gunners

[remote lark]

maybe i can drop soulstealer if i take the toughness gen node on ep

[spare talon]

dont take that

[remote lark]

i might drop quick shards then since i'll have ep charges

[grizzled aspen]

Would you consider running bubble then?

[remote lark]

scriers for cleave
otherwise i'd have to force charge myself with a staff

[grizzled aspen]

Ah right I forget you are abusing warp unbound...

[remote lark]

also with no DD i'll need it for melee damage lol

[tepid sorrel]

yeag

[naive stream]

In yalls opinion how many profiles is to much for zealot

[tame sluice]

the class has one build with the only difference being which keystone you use, so you just have 3

[remote lark]

no such thing

[uncut swallow]

What's the most OP class in the game?

[grizzled aspen]

(check vet chat before you answer this)

[sullen forge]

Veteran

[remote lark]

zealot can carry the hardest
psyker has the most kill potential

[sullen forge]

Now everyone in unison reply this even though it’s psyker

[remote lark]

the reason zealot can carry the hardest is because until death renders it much "more" immune to being "darktided" than other classes

you can get away with alot of bullshit

psyker can just kill entire rooms like it's nothing

[grizzled aspen]

(psyker removes game mechanics)

[uncut swallow]

That's literally what i was saying. And that dude says that untill death has no value

[grizzled aspen]

No, I said you are significantly overstating its value. Maybe dont have a skill issue and crutch on it?

[uncut swallow]

Like, noone is perfect. You always have a chance to get darktided or just be unlucky. I have such a bad games saved while playing as zealot that it's not even comparable. Mobility alone makes it that you can solo any situation you can end up in

[remote lark]

a class being able to carry consistently is different from a class being able to carry because it has insane kill potential

zealot can carry almost every game because you can't get oneshotted by absolute bullshit and you effectively have infinite hp if you pace yourself properly

psyker can remove melee enemies from the game with smite and ranged enemies from the game with bubble, so a good psyker also never dies

however a zealot is safer and that makes it better imo

both are pretty close

its just the unkillable blender vs the glass cannon argument

[grizzled aspen]

Psyker definitely takes the cake though because they make zealout not need until death by removing issues before they happen.

[sullen forge]

Empathic Evasion abuse naturally letting psyker turn off 50% of the gameplay loop also

[naive stream]

I agree with this message

[remote lark]

no, psykers die more
a zealot can make a mistake and survive
a psyker makes a mistake and instantly dies
they do not 'definitely' take the cake

i can take like a thousand damage a game on zealot and come out with no downs

[grizzled aspen]

Then don't make a mistake.

[naive stream]

Very hard when you can get trick shotted by a faze clan trapper

[grizzled aspen]

You literally pop yourself every other auric we do, I do not want to hear any arguing.

[uncut swallow]

That's such a weak answer you know? You always can get darktided as well as a hing called human error. Noone is perfect

[remote lark]

spends half the game dead
still outdamage and outkills you

[grizzled aspen]

You have almost 1k damage taken every match noob! I literally get by with less than 100!

And its usually friendly fire because you think it's funny to barrel me! Noob!

[naive stream]

It'll always be funny to barrel friends

[vague depot]

I make a lot of mistakes what’s important is finding someone else to blame for them

[uncut swallow]

You literally just said: just kill everything that can kill you before they kill you...

[grizzled aspen]

I can routinely drop 0 damage taken games as gunker but Lumii likes to grief me lmao.