veteran-class

[trim badger]

Is crazy

[unreal nova]

It's just one of many things that could help, but says actually nothing.

[tall torrent]

my class ranking atm
T0: psyker and ranged hvs
T1: vet, melee hvs, chemist hvs, ranged rumbler og
T1.5: arb, melee og, zealot
T2: ranged non-rumbler og

[hybrid plover]

...Trauma?

[trim badger]

Yea this seems about right

[tall torrent]

for solo/duo this list changes

[wild vortex]

Celine

[torpid grotto]

Trauma is only lv 6k noob

[narrow frost]

no he is 7k now

[hybrid plover]

They're like 6.6k

[torpid grotto]

So low

[narrow frost]

7200

[torpid grotto]

66666

[hybrid plover]

Wait they're 7k now? 😭

[torpid grotto]

Anyone with level above 1k needs to get a life

[hybrid plover]

What the heck

[wild vortex]

ranged rumbler ogryn too high IMO due to how unbelievably ammo hungry it is

[tall torrent]

yea that's why it's t1 and not t0

[trim badger]

Ranged HS is so fucking strong and easy it surprised me how people can fail with this

[tall torrent]

if ogryn had pickpocket then immediate t0 lmao

[trim badger]

Any class with pickpocket would become T0

[hybrid plover]

Omg I can't do anything about these crushers pls help

[torpid grotto]

I put scum above psyker for their mobility and nades. Can clutch almost anything

[trim badger]

It's hilarious since I got a no down game in ROTTEN ARMOUR with scum

Gunscum

[tall torrent]

It’s arguable for sure but psyker kit just so ridiculous

[torpid grotto]

It’s close

[trim badger]

Like he's not even bad into crushers wraaa why are people like this

[unreal nova]

Play 300-400 ping easy.

[trim badger]

Tell me about it, I always play Havoc at 200 ping since my region is dead

[torpid grotto]

I played inferno shriek for like 1000 levels but if I’m losing a bunch and need a cheap win I pick Uzi scum

The mobility and ranged immunity means you don’t have to rely on team at all, just exist in horrible spots while killing everything

[unreal nova]

Maybe I should goober and add, 300-400 ping on controller 0 mods.

[torpid grotto]

Stephen hawking gaming

[hybrid plover]

Nuh uh! Ranged scum is so bad against crushers

They have nothing to deal with them

If only they had some kind of explosives to deal with crushers.

[unreal nova]

One of your 4 precious rockets.

[hybrid plover]

This is so sad. 😔

[torpid grotto]

Crusher overheads are scary to dodge, if only they had some kind of weapon that teleported you 100 lightyears backward when you press spacebar

[unreal nova]

300 ping said nope, you get hit 20m away.

[midnight galleon]

pingus

[torpid grotto]

Simply stop being European

[unreal nova]

Which European is on GMT+8?

[hybrid plover]

Also side note.

[torpid grotto]

Subtract 8

Then ur good

Ez

[hybrid plover]

Since I noticed this yesterday

So this "Cat" individual has history here then, huh?

[rancid egret]

Good or bad history?

[hybrid plover]

Apparently not good.

[rancid egret]

Oh

[hybrid plover]

And given my experience yesterday, that is completely unsurprising and I just needed a heads up on being wary about em.

[rancid egret]

In-game or this discord server?

[hybrid plover]

This discord.

[rancid egret]

I think I have that person blocked or something or they blocked me or both. Idk

Can't remember

[heavy rover]

i'd say desparado plus rending node on stims, but yeah in general not the best in terms of ranged against carapace

[rancid egret]

But there is a lot of people with cat in their names so idk. Lol

[hybrid plover]

Which is fine. Because it can still do a lot of everything else, safely at that, while still being decent against crushers

[heavy rover]

yeah, fair point

[hybrid plover]

People have the tools to make it work. They just don't know it.

[heavy rover]

though if I'm leaning hard into ranged against carapace, I'd go fully into helbore with max marksman focus stacks

[rancid egret]

Veteran is just very viable right now currently because of the new drip.

I feel stronger with Cadian drip.

[hybrid plover]

Yeah like desperado scum isn't really meant to be all that against crushers

And that's actually a good thing.

[heavy rover]

if only the all cadians used shout to get golden toughness, they'd still have their planet

[heavy rover]

yeah, leaning on ranged desparado for carapace is mostly for something I'd reserve for plasma gunners or if I'm shooting into a mixed horde with some scab ragers

if it's a crusher, I'd let someone else handle them and keep the mixed horde off of them while they deal with the crusher

[unreal nova]

Timing it correctly before the impact.

[heavy rover]

gotta max out iron will and stagger Abaddon

[unreal nova]

I mean, force of uhhh.. a few million shouts should do it.

[turbid ibex]

thanks for the mental image of billions of cadians basically fus roh dah'ing a falling space station away

[mystic pilot]

Against a crusher wave?

[unreal nova]

I aim to entertain.

[unreal nova]

If it's large enough to be scary and there's no other choice, might as well.

Better use them than die with them.

[mystic pilot]

So fire everything got it

[heavy rover]

Imagine if the Cadians just used catachan swords to party Abaddon's fortress away

EZ parry

[empty heart]

does veteran shout stagger

[unreal nova]

Duh. One of the strongest staggers in the game.

[gentle lake]

very

[lucid crest]

they got rid of the best vet helmet in the game and turned it into a paid cosmetic omfg

im actually boutta lose my shit

[unreal nova]

The visor was never supposed to be there though. There were none before that accident.

[lucid crest]

then keep it!!!

it looked fucking awesome

i suppose fatshark needs money after all it being a free game and all

[unreal nova]

It would be nice if they fixed it to look right instead of removing or fixing and adding a version with the visor into the commissary, but still, profit driven company.

[lucid crest]

nvm its like 40 usd + dlcs

[unreal nova]

Between GW and Tencent, they want ALL the money.

[lucid crest]

biblical greed

[unreal nova]

You could say it's whatever gamepass sub is.

[lucid crest]

what if we detonated an 8000^10 megaton thermobaric nuke and called it a day

[hybrid plover]

Phew. I'm a west regular but I run reject. Couldn't be me. Hah!

[drowsy perch]

stealth adept assassin vet with revolver and knife is either really bad or really strong

crazy clutch or get cornered and die

[latent star]

Scoreboard is the opposite of the guide. You should use the guide until you get good enough to understand why you might deviate from it. You shouldn't be allowed to use scoreboard until you understand what it isn't useful for.

[lucid crest]

scoreboard doesn't seem any more useful as just a tool to fuel ur ego lol

[latent star]

It's useful to evaluate your build and adjust

[hybrid plover]

It's useful for you.

[latent star]

If you're doing what should be a high damage build and you aren't doing high damage, it suggests something is wrong.

[hybrid plover]

That's it.

[lucid crest]

ok but you shouldn't need exact numbers to evaluate your build

if ur struggling to kill shit then just change the build

[hybrid plover]

People just have it in their heads to use it as a metric to see how they fare against others.

Which is fucking stupid.

[hybrid plover]

I mean true but it is nice to have an actual visualization of things to see if a build is working as you think it should be.

[latent star]

It's not really about exact numbers, it can be hard to see how impactful damage or something similar is in a full high intensity game. 500k vs. 750k is a big difference but is hard to "feel" reliably.

It's never really a good way to completely evaluate a build, but if you do 5+ games with one weapon and then 5+ games with another it can be a useful comparison tool.

[hollow ibex]

it's good to see who's hijacking all the ammo

and double dipping med/ammo crates

in addition to what potato said

[latent star]

If the Hive Scum wanted the ammo they should have used some of that mobility to beat me to it.

[hollow ibex]

also, most importantly, it helps me keep track of how many times the smyker has died

[hollow ibex]

they should've taken pickpocket

the literal infinite ammo class has last dibs on the ammo

[red portal]

hey it's easier to track the seconds they've been alive for

[latent star]

Pickpocket is gonna get neeeeeeerfed so hard.

[hollow ibex]

who knows

[latent star]

Hey I love my dual Uzi scummer but ammo isn't supposed to be a suggestion.

[hollow ibex]

fatshart isn't known for being smart with balance decisions

[latent star]

Dueling sword it. No longer gives unlimited ammo but gets a huge defensive buff instead for no reason :p

[hybrid plover]

Rampage buff be like

[latent star]

Uncanny Strike was giving too much rending so now it gives finesse and crit chance and strength instead.

[hollow ibex]

almost surprised they didn't buff desperado while they were at it

but then again it's prob all based on their usage spreadsheet

but then why didn't crate get buffed

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-charlie-day-crazy-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-qanon-gif-23738584

[faint beacon]

@tall torrent Didn't realize they finally added a decent Kasrkin armor, your opinions on it in shop so far?

[hybrid plover]

Tbf crate is used a lot actually.

[faint beacon]

Havoc

Mainly havoc

[red portal]

you assume fatshark uses statistics and not just have 1 guy who mainly plays damnation quickplay make all balancing decisions.

[hollow ibex]

i prob just never notice lol

[hollow ibex]

they prob just have chatgpt look at their code base

https://tenor.com/view/dart-darts-game-of-darts-miketyson-gif-5028490

chatgpt making balance decisions

[red portal]

chat gpt made them add rot armour to the havoc pool despite repeated warnings it would be bad.

[lucid crest]

has anyone ever taken needle pistol on a desperado build on accident

im wondering if its as bad as it sounds

[tall torrent]

gud skin but cadian heavy armor has always had issues and this one is no different
I actually been liking the penance cosmetics a lot more since they don't run into any major issue

[faint beacon]

Yeah I've been fucking with them also

Been running something like this for the more Commissary focused outfit

Hell just threw this together and this also looks pretty good

[lucid crest]

the only paid cosmetic i use is the hivescum deluxe jacket and

various psyker cosmetics

because they did psyker astronomically dirty in this game

[faint beacon]

If its steel legion related I get it

end of story

anything else is if it genuinely looks good

[latent star]

Can't decide between power sword or combat axe for this dumb support tank build.

[tall torrent]

those gloves have glitch (reported, never been fixed lol)

[wild vortex]

helps to evaluate crit rate, damage taken, attacks blocked, different sources of damage dealt, ammo efficiency, number of times disabled, etc.

tbh uptime mod is also super useful from a talent tree / blessings perspective

[prisma vale]

What should I use Melk dollars for?

[vestal lotus]

Does bleed... suck?

[dry cloak]

keep them. then you may gamble for curios using the unknown section

or buy full lvl weapons while leveling

[slender elm]

Useful but not strong

[latent star]

Bleed is weird but can be good. The talent is decent if you have a super fast weapon. The frag grenade is pretty good but you wanna throw them in pairs.

[vestal lotus]

So uh, like the combat knif

The lil shiv

[latent star]

I like it on the combat knife

the vet talent

the bleed adds up and the extra damage can help with your already bad knife horde clear

[slender elm]

Vet talent is good on fast or cleaving weapons

[latent star]

I like mercy killer but most folks here will tell you to take precog instead (precog is more damage, mercy killer is generally easier to activate)

[slender elm]

But it's more difficult to apply than flame staff

[drowsy perch]

its good on certaain items

[latent star]

for most vet builds its bleed on melee hit vs. improved crates

and not everyone likes improved crates.

[drowsy perch]

eg, bleed perk with CB that has mercy killer

really strong

[slender elm]

I take both on my laspistol build

[drowsy perch]

• rending on weakspot

[vestal lotus]

Then the extra weak spot damage...

[slender elm]

Bleed with uncanny weapon tho

That's the good shit

[latent star]

the extra weak spot damage on the knife with mercy killer is very high, but it can't activate on the first hit since you need to apply the bleed first.

[slender elm]

You can do it with db shotgun weapon specialist

[latent star]

true

[vestal lotus]

I do normally chain heavy attacks

[slender elm]

Stack uncanny for rending, crit the shit out of something with db

[latent star]

Precog is really good since you're dodging constantly and its finesse instead of weakspot

[slender elm]

It bleeds to death

[latent star]

I run uncanny / mercy on my knife. Uncanny is the one that's mandatory.

[drowsy perch]

yea but still with rending on weakspot you start stacking that

[latent star]

oh yeah

that's what I run

but precog is more damage

[vestal lotus]

Let me understand... Blessing don't apply already. You just level them up so you can apply them. I may be stupid.

[slender elm]

Yeah that's how it is

You need to apply to blue and above

[vestal lotus]

I need to save up me Diam and Plat

Get em things to transand

[lyric path]

i wonder is exploit weakness needed on a hybrid build?

[drowsy perch]

plat youll get plenty of

[vestal lotus]

And honestly am real dumb

[drowsy perch]

dia is the main issue

[vestal lotus]

I currently have the bleed on crit on the shiv

[drowsy perch]

combat blade or hiver

bleed on crit isnt really worth tbh

theres better options

[lyric path]

dia problems?

[drowsy perch]

its so hard to get diamantine

most my weapons have kinda bad dump stats but i cant afford to replace them

cause never enough dia

[hybrid plover]

flesh tearer

[drowsy perch]

flesh tearer might be good if youre full crit build

[hybrid plover]

vet particularly enables flesh tearer + uncanny to do great bleed damage

[drowsy perch]

but tbh when u can just take lacerate for guaranteed 4

[hybrid plover]

lacerate is not good

it was only an option because serrated blade wasn't readily accessible like it is now.

If you're running a knife on vet, there's no reason you shouldn't be running crits.

[drowsy perch]

i run it on my stealth build

because speedy

stealth and adept assassin

knifes got shit finesse though

[latent star]

I'm guessing flesh tearer is better against big HP pools and mercy or precog win for small targets.

although big enough time on target and you'll max bleed, but I guess that's for stabbing a plague ogryn or something.

[lyric path]

ayyye another stealthy boi

as long as you're not in OCE we will get along just fine

[drowsy perch]

oceanic?

or what

[hybrid plover]

knife has one of the best finesse values in the entire game

[lyric path]

yes

[drowsy perch]

no my knife

[hybrid plover]

Oh

[drowsy perch]

see here

[hybrid plover]

wait

wh-

WHY DOES THE KNIFE HAVE A FINESSE DUMP 😭

[drowsy perch]

unlucky role

[latent star]

cut yer fingers

[drowsy perch]

and i cant replace it

atleast until i get enough dia

[hybrid plover]

literally the worst dump

[drowsy perch]

tbh for stealth i think its the best dump stat since

the mobility is really good

i can run faster than a mutie using heavy spam

[hybrid plover]

you're unironically better off with a damage dump

[drowsy perch]

i mean i still havent been having much issues with it

[hybrid plover]

and i still wouldn't recommend because you already have gamebreaking movement with knife

[drowsy perch]

one day i will have a better knife

but for now i copium

[ancient lynx]

so have they reverted the visor or just left there as is.

[silver patrol]

Reverted

[latent star]

you can now buy it

for money

[silver patrol]

The helmet you can buy is literally the one you have already but with a visor

That will be 5 bucks

[latent star]

I've paid more for worse hats, but they did have the distinction of being real.

[lyric path]

HELLO

[slender elm]

Henlo

[dry tundra]

Are there any laspistol or lasgun builds?

[desert viper]

@hybrid plover

opinion needed

[hybrid plover]

:o

[desert viper]

8 bleed stacks on crit or more weakspot damage on bleeding enemies for knife ?

[hybrid plover]

if with serrated strikes, flesh tearer

[desert viper]

yeah it's with serrated

[hybrid plover]

Because 10 stacks of bleed on crit is very dumb and also very good.

[south river]

Yes check Vet guide pinned there's 2 iirc

[desert viper]

could the same be said for chainswords bloodletter blessing? or nah?

16 stacks of bleed total

[hybrid plover]

not in a million years

[dapper pier]

Whoops why am i in vet chat

[hybrid plover]

because the bleed itself isn't what makes it good, it's uncanny

[desert viper]

aha

[hybrid plover]

because 120% rending is balanced

[desert viper]

so uncanny stacking is needed to make 10 stacks of bleed hit like shitbricks

[hybrid plover]

it hits like shitbricks on anything that isn't carapace, it's the fact that it makes it good against carapace at all that puts it way up there.

especially because vet having access to 70% free damage is also very balanced

and most of that damage also affects your bleed

[desert viper]

oh elaborate please?

I don't have the game open right now

[hybrid plover]

right bottom of tree juices the hell out of vet's damage output

two of those nodes, skirmisher and exploit weakness, also being just damage and not melee or ranged damage

which means it buffs all damage output, including dots

[desert viper]

oh yes btw

is skirmisher worth it? including on knife?

[hybrid plover]

Skirmisher is extremely good.

Arguably one of vet's best nodes

[desert viper]

so needed on any build

good to know~

[hybrid plover]

Bottom right just has insanely good nodes compared to middle and especially left lol

But yeah, skirmisher has amazing uptime cuz you can slide to keep the stacks up

[desert viper]

do you think it's worth going down the middle bottom path for ogryn damage and rending on all weapons, by the way?

[tall torrent]

og dmg yes
rending depends

[hybrid plover]

You don't need rending with knife if you're running uncanny. If you aren't, then yeah doesn't hurt.

The toughness node is arguably more important imho

[desert viper]

interesting

[hybrid plover]

25 toughness goes a long way on vet.

[tall torrent]

25 toughness goes a long way for any class

[desert viper]

okay so no rending on all weapons over 25 toughness

[tall torrent]

u should always have at least one +25 toughness node for any vet build

[desert viper]

I'm guessing cus of iron will

[tall torrent]

rending is quite situational

for some weapons it's quite good

for some weapons it helps but isn't necessary

[desert viper]

my knife build uses WS recon knife with onslaught

[tall torrent]

and for some weapons it's just a waste

[desert viper]

I figured the rending would b nice for recon dot

[tall torrent]

do u need to shoot crusher

[desert viper]

sometimes

[tall torrent]

knife takes care of crushers pretty easily

[desert viper]

if my team decides to front crushers before me I usually pull out recon to brittle dot n stuff

I should mention this is like

auric

I don't do havoc with knife

scary

[tall torrent]

Onslaught usually isn’t worth the point esp since vet tree isn’t that flexible

[desert viper]

I see

[dry tundra]

Wait the other vet guide is not pinned

[south river]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3367063781

This one is

[dry tundra]

Oh I'm using that one

It doesn't have a heavy laspistol build

Only helbore lasgun

[south river]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a09c2902-9171-4919-b4f3-ca8c355c9cb3/dn-build-mk2

This has Lasgun

[dry tundra]

Alright

I think I'll also see Mister E's builds

[south river]

Reginald is more worthwhile

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9db23763-1631-42b9-9ba5-c62b3770d422/havoc-recon-lasgun-fuplaayz

that's FuPlayz

[dry tundra]

Ah ok

thanks

[hybrid plover]

Knife is like one of vet's best options for Havoc tho

[desert viper]

I don't quite trust myself with the APM

I stick on duelling sword or sometimes falchion

in aurics I can let my rusty knife play slide cus enemies die relatively quickly

[hybrid plover]

They die quickly in havoc too tbh

Knife is like

Abrasively good on this class

[dapper coyote]

Exec stance + bolt pistol = delete gunners and elites / specialists

Fun

[prisma vale]

if i get a brain transplant can i skip the campaign?

[mystic pilot]

Heavy laspistol works with the sniper build that use helbore, its finesse stat is high enough

[slender elm]

Except you aint getting through carapace helmets

[dapper coyote]

only for the first time you are forced

After that, for other characters its to skippable

[slender elm]

Been told bistol has abhorrent breakpoints

[dapper coyote]

Idk, im just bobbin heads with it

[slender elm]

Also low magazine size

Well i run infiltrate frags with it

[dapper coyote]

We john wicking the horde

I run with WS because idk why

[slender elm]

Bigass kaboom

[dapper coyote]

So melee kill, then switch to shoot the horde is fucking fun

[slender elm]

WS is decent because it has little ammo

[dapper coyote]

To see the horde cease attacking for a few second

Satisfying

[slender elm]

Eh if you're shooting horde db is better

[dapper coyote]

DB is better true

But its f u n

Splattering grey matter with a rocket deagle

[slender elm]

You do you I guess, I have a build for all the things you're doing but more specialised

[dapper coyote]

Its for fun, nothing competitive stuff

Just S p l a t that flesh

[slender elm]

I'm mostly just free fucking laser eye surgery for heretics

[mystic pilot]

shrugs GuideWIP said anything with finesse of at least 2 or better can be used with sniper build

[dapper coyote]

I tried using the same build with Helbore, with surgical and funny shock trooper

It feels comical

Very comical

Just sniping without reloading

[slender elm]

ye but it takes a lot of shots to get through even plasma gunner

just shoot body

[slate valve]

I’m sure this is a silly question, but when you crouch does it better the recoil or overall make your aim more accurate?

I feel like it does so I crouch and stand my ground to shoot a lot, preferably behind cover

[dapper coyote]

Yes

Crouch helps

[slate valve]

Okay so I’m not falling under a placebo

Thank you

I will keep crouching, standing still and shooting in situations I’m able to

[dapper coyote]

Sometimes whenever im using braced guns crouching is the only way for me to hit things

[slate valve]

Obliterating elites and giving covering fire to my team

[dapper coyote]

Iron sights on the other hand? You don't need crouching

It'll hit wherever it should be zeroed to

[slate valve]

A lot of people, at least in the early game, seem to just kinda dive in and ignore the enemies beside to behind them

So I end up covering their rear as it were lol

[dapper coyote]

Its useful for braced guns / guns without iron sights

[slate valve]

I use the infantry lasgun

And I feel like I’m able to coordinate my volleys better crouched

[dapper coyote]

Yeah, it doesn't matter, just hit the target well

[slate valve]

I think I’m still gonna crouch to shoot as it makes me a smaller target and I’m less tempted to move around and throw off my aim lol. Especially behind cover. I love being able to peak from cover crouched

[dapper coyote]

When the situation allows it

[slate valve]

Oh yeah, like when you’re holding off waves from an objective or when you’re clearing a bridge of enemies

Basically whenever there’s a “kill zone”

If that makes sense

I wouldn’t want to do that in an open arena with bad guys pouring in from all sides with a boss in the center

[dapper coyote]

I'd do it with the braced revolver sometimes

Just crouch, mag dump, and reload or back to melee

[slate valve]

How is the bolt gun by the way

The bolt pistol feels really sexy to use, and I’m looking forward to it in rifle form

[dapper coyote]

Bolt gun is good against bosses

[slate valve]

That’s kinda what I’m looking for in a rifle

[dapper coyote]

Terrible against spamming chaffs ofc

Slower reload
Slower draw time

But full auto

And larger mag size

[slate valve]

I use my dapper shovel and shredder grenades on chaff

[dapper coyote]

This is very important, take note or get thrown off by the draw time

[slate valve]

Sapper*

I would wanna use the bolt gun to obliterate elites and the bosses

[dapper coyote]

Also in mortis trials with the full auto execution stance is just a pure fun mode

[slate valve]

Don’t know what a mortis trial is

[dapper coyote]

Execution stance + gunners are also highlighted = 1-2 mins of uninterrupted full auto bolter fire

[slate valve]

Fuck yeah

[dapper coyote]

Sephoni funny missions

[slate valve]

This sounds blissful to my ears

Time to grind to that level of trust

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dapper-gentleman-distinguished-bow-gif-24200933

[dapper coyote]

Basically hold off mission

With above avg difficulty

[slate valve]

Remember the space Alamo

[dapper coyote]

But you have funny boons from wave to wave

[slate valve]

Honestly I could also see myself continuing to run the infantry lasgun with blessings and krak grenades like I do now

I am very biased for the basic lasgun

[dapper coyote]

Ogryns grenade box gets to drop, oh gee, krak, shredders, smokes

Spam all 4 of them and lag the whole server

[slate valve]

Jesus lol

[dapper coyote]

Yeah, there's funny boons in that gamemode

[silver patrol]

the funny thing is

that boon isn't even good

[unreal nova]

The best one is free oggy frags.

[mystic pilot]

Does sniper build assume you're doing head shot every time?

[slender elm]

dunno

its not like you cant just unload into hordes for quick stacks

[mystic pilot]

I mean sometimes you get a mission that added haze or poor visibility and you aint gonna to see head clearly on specialists

So you just unload into their body

[slender elm]

exec stance

[mystic pilot]

And sometimes you cant see theyre actually behind cover in that visibility

[calm shard]

you actually can 100% of the time with exe stance

the outline changes depending on whether you can actually see that enemy or not

go try it out in the psykhanium

this applies for all abilities that outline enemies too btw

[slender elm]

yeah, it is obvious enough to tell if an enemy is behind cover

[calm shard]

there's a lot of really cool details about that and some of them are broken and fucking annoying

like did you know that almost all specialist audio is client-side and gets louder specifically when they are targeting you?

like how snipers won't play their warning audio that they're about to shoot if they aren't trying to shoot you

[unreal nova]

And they stack, 3 trappers in each other trying to get you is jumpscare tier.

[fluid rune]

They stack so hard audio breaks. Aka 10 poxbursters at once

[slate valve]

Say I wanted to lean into a thematic seargant playstyle, how good would a support veteran build with the voice of command, heavy laspistol/bolt pistol and chainsword/power sword be

[mystic pilot]

Would have to rely on krak grenades for armored targets more

Unless you stick to power sword, then shredder grenades works

[slate valve]

Probably do las pistol and chainsword then krak?

Absolutely mulch chaff and then buff my allies

[south spindle]

If you dont dress like a commisar it wont work

Dont forget to threaten your teammates plenty too for added effect

[slate valve]

I’d just do a sergeant honestly

Do like the headset cosmetic with laspistol and chainsword in hand

[livid hill]

VERY GOOD

[slate valve]

Really?

[livid hill]

Yes

It works

[slate valve]

I thought it would just be a flavour niche

[livid hill]

In terms of melee weapon, you can choose either regular power sword which requires recharging on every 3 swings or you could choose power falchion

[slate valve]

I’m currently working on two builds, the gunner build with a lasgun and shovel, and a sergeant build for later when I unlock the weapons and voice of command I want

I kinda wanna do a tried and true sergeant build with a chainsword and las pistol

[livid hill]

If ur a meta person then psword but if youre a larper like me power falchion because its literally 1-1 with the commissars sword in dawn of war

[slate valve]

I’m not going with commissar necessarily, more so the guard sergeant

Love me guard

Into the thick of it with his lads in toe, saving his squad mates and telling them to bring the whole place down

[livid hill]

Power falchion

[slate valve]

I really wanna play the guard in dawn of war 4 when it comes out

Surprise to no one at this point I’m sure

I really hope they don’t call it “astra militarum” which I’m sure they will, if they do I hope the officers or grunts have voice lines saying the guard instead

[livid hill]

Always thought the guard was a weird name for the imperiums infantry

Like guard should be like

The pdf's name

[slate valve]

Now if I was to do more of a commissar flavor, I’d do bolt pistol and power falchion

[slate valve]

They’re one in the same, the PDF is a sect or type of guard

[livid hill]

Honestly if it were up to me space marines would be something like imperial knights and the imperial guard would be the space marines

[slate valve]

I think the idea is that they are the first and last line of offense, and defense in the imperium borders and are the first ones to dive into a crusade

[livid hill]

Space marines feels awfully frugal for what are essentially a caste of warrior monks

[livid hill]

Hngh true

[slate valve]

Space marines get all the credit, but the guardsmen do all the heavy lifting and sacrifice protecting their fellow man and the emperor

[livid hill]

Space marines deserve none of it

Fuck em

[slate valve]

1000%

[livid hill]

Mutants

[slate valve]

Guardsmen>space marines

I’m 3d printing some Solar auxillia guard for the tabletop actually

[past peak]

According to Ciaphas Cain, the laspistol is more practical for every day use and the bolt he owns is just something he brings out for propaganda, so it depends on where your guy falls on the "practical to motivated" spectrum

[slate valve]

They’re reallllly good at killing space marines

[livid hill]

Not really? Pdfs are like planetary militias upkept by the local governor, theyre not reliant on the imperium at large

[livid hill]

Based

[slate valve]

I’d definitely stick with the laspistol for my sarge

[past peak]

Well most planets are specialized to the point the planet itself is tbf

[atomic void]

good thing they're called adeptus astartes then

sounds fancy enough

[livid hill]

I mean dont laspistols have like 38838384849293 rounds

[livid hill]

But theyre ALSO called marines

[empty heart]

what are the must have little tanky toughness nodes for veteran

[slate valve]

They can take all their adepts and astarts and shove it

[livid hill]

Is what i meant

[atomic void]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/728174260878704643/1178364672756437022/salvatory_ogryn.gif

[livid hill]

Ye

[past peak]

I believe he also calls out the weight and what it does to the wrist

[slate valve]

I can only imagine

I really do wanna read the ciaphis Cain novels

Anyways I’m procrastinating chores, stay safe in the void y’all

[livid hill]

Ive always thought its funny how one of the most prestigious and powerful regular weapons in 40k is just a really big gun with even more gunpowder

[past peak]

Its more like a rocket launcher

[livid hill]

They have lasers and gravity beams but the most popular is just bang

[livid hill]

Its a gun

Theyre all guns

[sly orchid]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Speranza#google_vignette

[south spindle]

Clearly needs to do more wrist excersizes

[primal zealot]

bro needs an autoclicker

[latent star]

Laspistol is legit great as a vet weapon if you build into it but unless you want to create entirely new forms of carpal tunnel syndrome you best download an autofire mod.

[tame lodge]

Learn how to play Master of Puppets downstroke only and be immune to carpal tunnel

https://tenor.com/view/metallica-meme-fell-fortnite-gif-2843685025979002713

https://tenor.com/view/metallica-james-hetfield-rock-and-roll-gif-15250782

[pseudo fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/james-hetfield-gif-21329514

[latent star]

Infiltrate damage bonus.

[gentle lake]

What map is good for longbomb

[hollow ibex]

dreyko's an easy one

big bridge overlook at the very beginning

well actually two big overlooks

at the very start

[mystic pilot]

when you want your grenades to be stronger, for shredders at least, bolter pistol is handy to have with the lethal proximity blessing

[slow sky]

Any map with an open roof

You want to aim it up high and have it explode directly above a horde

Since grenades have a fuse time they can explode before they touch the ground of you aim it high enough

You can figure out the angle in the psyk

[narrow widget]

seconded dreyko

[neon karma]

the trench map was where I got mine, long corridors where there are a lot of enemies

[empty heart]

why does the power sword suck so much? without the charge its damage is bad. do i need to make it power 500 to make it good or something

[slim copper]

My favorites for this are the bridge for the mid event on vigil station oblivium and the arena at the end of enclavum baross

The bridge is just the right length for it and the arena you can stand in the back corner of and toss at the double gates that enemies climb over to enter

[latent star]

Power Cycler blessing is mandatory.

[empty heart]

is that 2 extra charge one

already got it

[latent star]

yes

Are you using the MK6 sword?

[tame lodge]

Because Fatshark doesn't know how to make good unpowered sword

[latent star]

It has better attack patters and has a push stab that's critical for killing armor.

[empty heart]

ummm is that the first mark

[empty heart]

often times in lower difficulty i just can’t escape hordes.

armored ones are not troubling me yet

[neon karma]

I have a habit of mashing the power up button every 4 swings so I can have max uptime

[latent star]

You don't need to escape them, you let the bunch up a bit and then dodge / block / push so you have time for your charge and then you just kill the entire horde.

[neon karma]

how should I set up a mark x laspistol for big damage like a revolver?

[tame lodge]

That's the funny part

You don't

Anyways

[neon karma]

[tame lodge]

That sounds like a MMF build

[latent star]

laspistol does really good damage but its not gonna get the one shot kills a revolver does

run desperado and dumdum

[neon karma]

I can settle for not one shotting stuff but I was suggested previously that the Mark X could be better than the revolver or bolt pistol for specialist/elite killing

tried it once and didn't do so good

I usually do revolver/bp, power sword and weapon specialist

[latent star]

Like Carn said, that's a MMF build. You stack a bunch of crit.

[tall torrent]

Laspistol have pretty bad maniac ADM unfortunately

[latent star]

you can run +25% maniac to help compensate or you can rely on your melee weapon to solve that problem (or you can just dodge backwards and shoot more)

[neon karma]

[latent star]

for laspistol you want Marksman's Focus and Reciprocity for sure. I'd also take Tunnel Vision and Deadshot to get your crit even higher.

Deadshot is a.... difficult talent to recommend but if you're dodging with a laspistol and you have desperado and reciprocity and deadshot your base crit is going to be getting close to 100%

krak grenades can solve crushers

[neon karma]

interesting, i'll try that but I still haven't fully wrapped my head around all the percentages and buffs

[vestal lotus]

The Combat Knife does so much damage to one person holy

[tame lodge]

London

[hollow ibex]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1351976144206954559/Warhammer40000_Darktide2025-03-1917-28-32-Trim-ezgif.com-video-speed_online-video-cutter.com.gif?width=308&height=300

also fucking tenor

APPROVE MY GIF YOU MFERS

it's been weeks

[mystic pilot]

so any good cosmetic item for veterans this week?

[tame lodge]

Cadia

[orchid hemlock]

Cadi ric

[tame lodge]

C

A

D

I

A

[mystic pilot]

Cadia also?

yes

[charred halo]

what weapons are best on melee vet

[latent star]

knife, shovel, tac axe, power sword. You can get almost anything to work with the right blessings and play.

[charred halo]

am i doing something wrong with psword

its genuinely annoying yo use

[latent star]

it takes a while to get used to it

[vestal lotus]

The shiv is so fun

[tame lodge]

It's genuinely annoying to use

[vestal lotus]

The discount hive scum build

[tame lodge]

It's the trade off for being arguably the best generalist melee in the game

Just push more often

[latent star]

it has very frustrating limitations but I'm pretty sure the charged attacks have the best horde clear in the entire game.

(charged as in special activated)

[charred halo]

what gun is best

i’ve been running laspistol

[latent star]

get used to doing a dodge, charge, counter. You can also retain your charge while you block an attack which is useful to do if you're dealing with something like some poxwalkers and you need to let your dodge refresh

[latent star]

No single best gun. Like melee weapons lots of viable options depending on your build. Laspistol is really good for a Marskman's Focus build with lots of crit.

[tame lodge]

Depends on build
But for melee centric it's plasma, shotgun, revolver, shredder auto pistol

Vigilants

Vigilants are closer to 50/50 though

[charred halo]

plasma fr?

[latent star]

If you want to be almost exclusively ranged your best options IMO are laspistol or helbore. Plasma is the "IDK just kill everything" option. Bolter is great but you do need to build around the bad handling. Revolver and shotgun are solid anti-specialist options.

[tame lodge]

Yeah you just pull it out M1 some specialist in the middle of the 50 mass horde and go about your day

[latent star]

Actual bullet rifles are kinda meh IMO but they're probably a bit slept on.

Plasma is basically designed for the weapon specialist node

[charred halo]

how do my perks look btw

[tame lodge]

Lack of Precision Strikes in the left side

[vestal lotus]

Bolter or bolt pistol?

[latent star]

probably post the rest of your build but that's kinda messy IMO

[tall torrent]

show full tree

[latent star]

Leave No One Behind is one of those "I wish this was really good" talents and I don't think its explicitly bad but you're probably better off taking damage talents and just putting +revive on your curios instead.

[tall torrent]

this needs help

[charred halo]

alright

show me where

[latent star]

What weapons you using DSPP?

[charred halo]

power sword and plasma

[tall torrent]

look at pinned guide, veteran build template

[left garden]

hey honest question, what's the difference between the various helbores?

[narrow frost]

Speed and damage

Check guide in pins for breakdown

[latent star]

Charge time mostly, the slowest rifle has a crappy melee special instead of a good melee special

[latent star]

IMO the fastest helbore is only viable if you build very heavily into damage but you can make it work and it hits really hard if you go all-in on pewpew. The medium helbore is a good generalist option and can hit important breakpoints with minimal damage investment. The slow version is.... just kinda too slow to merit using IMO but you can get it to do some high carapace damage if you want.

IMO short answer -> fastest helbore for pure damage / sniping build and medium helbore for generalist / support sniper build. Slow helbore not really worth using.

[left garden]

I see. And I'm guessing 3a is the medium one and 5 is the fastest one?

[latent star]

You have a lot of unnecessary talents in your tree that you could drop for better choices.

[charred halo]

is this good

got one point leftover

[latent star]

not for powersword / plasma

[latent star]

think so, you can tell pretty easily in game by just looking at the damage.

[tame lodge]

Yes and 4 is the hardest hitting ranged weapon in the game

[charred halo]

alright heres the new thing

[tame lodge]

[tall torrent]

why CQKZ and always prepared

[void dragon]

ok i know that the fire grenades arent great but how in the name of hell i only get 100 damage with them when tossing them to swarms? am i killing them so fast that the fire does no damage?

[left garden]

and the talents, do they depend on what mk I have?

[charred halo]

always prepared was in the build

[desert viper]

is CQKZ bad?

[charred halo]

cqkz because i had a point left over

[desert viper]

it's just free damage on shout no?

[tall torrent]

huh

[tall torrent]

I did not put always prepared into vet build template

[tall torrent]

this is not the template

the template is 1 section above

[latent star]

IMO if you're doing the MK5 (fastest for DPS) you run Marksman's Focus and as much +damage shit as you can so your ridiculously fast shots can 1 hit kill.

[tame lodge]

Barely anything against any metal wearing enemy
Also enemies can just walk around it

[tall torrent]

not bad, but there're better options usually

[charred halo]

im gonna use that

[latent star]

if you want something more flexible for a focus target or weapon specialist build you can run the MK3

[left garden]

sorry not talents, blessings. I'm still getting used to the game's lnames for things

[latent star]

Surgical always even on the MK5

[tall torrent]

there's also a vet havoc section that's specifically for power sword + plasma

[desert viper]

agile engagement would be better, you reckon?

[tall torrent]

usually yea

or marksman

marksman is really strong, issue is just uptime

[latent star]

I like Weight of Fire to get your charge time basically 0 as you fight more enemies but WoF, Armorbane, and Hotshot are all good.

[charred halo]

i intend to take this to auric

[void dragon]

i tried to toss it to the poxwalkers when i had to deal with caparace, yet SOMEHOW it did only 200 damage across like 6 nades

[latent star]

also weird breakpoints on some weapons where it doesn't do enough damage to matter against crushers and just makes everything else even more dead in one shot.

[tall torrent]

it's also super strong in auric lol

[latent star]

if you switch weapons with any regularity Agile Engagement is amazing.

[tall torrent]

no, marksman pretty much always has great value when it's active

[left garden]

I see, and should I hold my shots till full surgical or release when max charged?

[tall torrent]

because most of veteran's dmg bonuses are +dmg, and marksman is +str

[latent star]

No you don't hold intentionally most of the time

its just surgical charges really fast and you're almost always ADSing and you want as much crit as you can get

[desert viper]

marksman on recon would up its actual damage...

[latent star]

Marksman on Recon makes it hit pretty hard

[desert viper]

I should try it instead of cqkz

[latent star]

still not a fan of the weapon overall but it is a big damage boost

[tall torrent]

not rly worth still

[desert viper]

hrm

[latent star]

IMO use the Helbore MK5 instead, with WoF its basically a recon lasgun :p

[tall torrent]

anything that takes shock trooper basically cuts vet down to a lv27 character

[desert viper]

oh I don't intend to use shock trooper

[left garden]

so ignoring the poor, poor powerlevel (I will be leveling it up) this is something right?

[latent star]

Yeah that's pretty much perfect.

[tall torrent]

carapace perk's best use case for helbore is on mk IV

[latent star]

You could run maniac or unyielding or +crit

over carapace

especially if you can fit buffed kraks into your build to Solve Crushers Forever.

I also prefer Weight of Fire over Hotshot but I think that's mostly a personal preference thing, there isn't a clear best option.

I like using the MKIIIa on support-ish sniper builds with focus target, you can still get one hit kills on most important targets without the damage buffs from Marksman's Focus. YMMV.

[left garden]

I mean, honestly I wanted to see if I could use it on weapon's specialist

also I do have kraks, but not buffed

[latent star]

You can use it on WS, you almost certainly need Hot Swap though because the ready time is atrocious.

[tall torrent]

helbore for WS is not as much of a meme as before

but not as good compared to MF/FT

if u wanted a sustained firing sniper gun for WS, check vig auto 3

[latent star]

Yeah WS works fine but it is sort of "why?" when you could use a better WS weapon or a better helbore talent.

[latent star]

I want to like the vigilant autos but they just never gel for me.

should give em another shot I guess

[left garden]

that's... fair, also do either MF or FT need any of their keystone modifiers?

[latent star]

depends

I think FT benefits from all three, Target Down! is probably the least important and the most often skipped.

Its the kind of undefined passive team power that is valuable but never really jumps out at you.

[hollow ibex]

6 stacks is still an easy skip

[latent star]

Focused Fire and Redirect Fire! are both great if you can afford them, a teamwide +15% damage buff is going to mathematically be better than almost anything else you could do.

I like 6 stacks, makes bosses die really fast and the team damage buff is big.

[tall torrent]

focused fire is not worth it

[latent star]

If you're killing a captain or boss I literally don't think there's any single talent that would do more damage. +5% teamwide and an extra +10% taken (with the weird scaling math that involves) is huge.

But vet is talent hungry and you can skip it if you don't need the team boss damage.

[left garden]

I see. And what about MF then?

[latent star]

MF is pretty good on its own TBH, one of the best things of the keystone. 15 stacks is a nice damage buff but you gotta build up to the 15 stacks and you gotta ask what breakpoints the 5 extra stacks gets you.

[tall torrent]

massive opportunity cost but does scale quite well for helbore

[latent star]

Tunnel Vision is mandatory if you're doing Deadshot, otherwise pass

[latent star]

"massive opportunity cost" is just the final 5 points every veteran build spends.

[left garden]

yea I do already have shocktrooper, becuase lasgun

[latent star]

I'd only use deadshot on the MK5, you need to be getting ridiculously fast kills to outpace the stamina drain.

on the MK3 you can probably just do base marskman's focus

dunno if there are any important breakpoints you'd hit with 15 stacks instead of 10, don't think so

[tall torrent]

it is a massive opportunity cost given vet has only 5 points for rounding up builds lol

[latent star]

helbore builds IMO worry more about breakpoints than almost any other because you're almost always the first person to hit a target and you almost always want it to die in one hit.

[mystic pilot]

V fastest DPS
IIIa middle
IV highest alpha damage

[latent star]

I really want to like IV and used it for a long time but its just hard to justify with how the game is currently paced IMO.

[charred halo]

ok yeah this build is gas

[left garden]

I see, honestly in that case I might put that final point I get from not getting a keystone bonus into the melee speed just for when hordes get too close

as I was missing it

[latent star]

Melee speed feels really nice on basically everything

[left garden]

I'm using the powesword

[latent star]

IIRC it buffs the activation speed now too

I'm a fan of exhilirating takedown if you have spare points, that +confirmed kill let you basically facetank unlimited ranged enemies. I'm not sure I'd generally recommend it though and its very specific for helbore headshots-only builds.

[slow sky]

Exhil takedown is basically a must for any ranged build where you actually need to aim

Exe stance with Inflas, helbore, headhunter, bolter, etc

You get the idea

[latent star]

well specifically for helbore builds combining exhilirating and confirmed gives you some ridiculous roughness regen on every single specialist kill and that lets you Action Hero through almost any ranged opposition. But those last 5 veteran points are always the most precious and that is inevitably competing against very attractice nodes further down the tree.

Generally I find one of helbore's best features is the ability to just decide long range encounters are something your entire team gets to ignore so having that extra toughness can be nice when the enemy actually tries to contest that space.

[charred halo]

2 cosplayers and 2 wackasses

[thorn lark]

It's also good with exec + ws

Like, when are you not shooting a head?

Exec > draw revolver > cleave 3 heads > go melee > start again

[wild vortex]

anyone know who this is?

[past peak]

John Darktide

[tall torrent]

Never met them

[narrow frost]

they are in this server

say hi

[warm gulch]

who

[narrow frost]

eva

[distant plaza]

Joan-D'arctide
Jane-Waghammah

[warm gulch]

shake and speare

[past peak]

That is too much time in Darktide

[wild vortex]

unfortunately had to quit the game because baby crying

but they were doing work

even in the first couple mins

Also

How2avoid tunnel visioning when using Helbore

[tame lodge]

Develop metavision

[hybrid plover]

Awaken your byakugan

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-lock-meta-vision-gif-6216622377028756346

Like
Literally just look around

[wild vortex]

I just kinda get locked in

Might be because Weight of Fire greeds me into firing non stop

[latent star]

Good positioning relative to your team helps a fair bit.

[spice terrace]

me waking up to play more veteran class

[tall torrent]

shoot less

[warm gulch]

power falcion mentioned

[spice terrace]

kinda slept on tbh

[warm gulch]

THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEEEEN SAYING

[spice terrace]

its like for me top 5 guardsmen weapons for me

[warm gulch]

i say its a lighter power sword and for me its number 1

[sonic kayak]

As long as you're enjoying yourself

[tall torrent]

one day they'll make falchion good

[warm gulch]

its up there if you know how to build it and use it

like the power sword

Obv not same dps

[sonic kayak]

PSword doesn't need a lot of building to get it juicy though

[warm gulch]

Kinda does

[hollow ibex]

it's one of the few weapons in the game that just work out of the box tbh

[sonic kayak]

The only thing that's mandatory for it is Cycler, just so you don't activate after every swing

[spice terrace]

tbh the number 1 meele weapon has to be the shovel for me

[warm gulch]

Based

[hallow rain]

I like men

[gentle lake]

Ena

[tame lodge]

Lore accurate actions per minute btw

[sly orchid]

Legit just give it sunder

[tall torrent]

it can use more than that

[tame lodge]

Yeah give it power Cycler

🗣️

[slate valve]

That was me this morning

Grinding for the bolt and plasma guns

[warm gulch]

Valid

[warm gulch]

Wdym?

By out of the box

Im slow

[mortal horizon]

I have a confession to make.

I have almost never used the regular las guns in 2000 hours except for when i first made a class and was forced to/didn't have anything else. They just never interested me. But im aware they can be good, Reginald making it look fun (or maybe ive actually just run out of weapons i dont play in the game lol)

think ill try this
ive used the helbore's and las pistols a bunch, but my lasguns are at ZERO mastery lol. 2k+ hours I just always ignored them idk why lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ycvDJKLAw

[slate valve]

I like women

[hollow ibex]

like with very little investment

[warm gulch]

Ohhh the power sword or falcion?

[sonic kayak]

You could try Ainz's lasgun build which is a very nice

[tall torrent]

that build kinda cursed

[sonic kayak]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a09c2902-9171-4919-b4f3-ca8c355c9cb3/dn-build-mk2

[warm gulch]

Also the power falcion doesn't need a blessing to be good so like it opens up more options

[tall torrent]

power sword

it's strong from the get go

[mortal horizon]

ya, always trust ainz, link it

[tall torrent]

and with equal investment it beats basically every other vet melee in almost all categories

[sonic kayak]

#veteran-class message

[mortal horizon]

havnet looked into the build specifics yet, why?

i just typically trust reginald, think hes a pretty good player as far as the youtubers go

[mortal horizon]

except being clunky and slow as SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

but ya power sword go brrrrrrrrrrr

[hollow ibex]

sword

[tall torrent]

this part is blank

[mortal horizon]

ya i feel you, i know this side of the tree is overloaded, but personally i get sick of doing the same thing everytime and get excited when i see something different.
im also aware focus target is just better than marksman focus. But i do wish there was a good use-case for MF

1 thing i like in reginalds build is the 20% weakspot power on ult press, i do like that node

why the MKIIb tho over the IX on the lasgun?

[tame lodge]

Because the 9 is the worst of the ilas

[mortal horizon]

i have almost NEVER used them in 2k hours as stated, so i dont even know the difference in the models lmao

word

[tall torrent]

marksman is good, I think it can use better uptime tho (I think red node should refresh along stance personally)
inf las choice is kinda just preference

I like IIb except the crit muzzle flash is horrid

[sly orchid]

ainz using shock maul hmm

[tame lodge]

It's alright

Mid af

But alright

[mortal horizon]

i get passing up 15% melee dmg, crit on dodge, and melee crit/finesse is probably bad,

but if you're deciding to play the build mostly ranged, is there no world where you can be ok/viable and just focus on the other parts of your kit? I assume thats why reginald is running knife, just mobility so he doesnt have to fight in melee

[tall torrent]

what am I shooting at here

[sly orchid]

bulwark

[tall torrent]

no, it's a crusher

[sly orchid]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ishowspeed-speed-reaction

[mortal horizon]

its kind of a solid weapon, i think they're a little underrated, i got excited when i saw it bc i get excited to make off-meta things work

[dry galleon]

I think the veteran might be a smoker
No stamina and hands shaking like a mfr when he shoots his lasgun

[tall torrent]

even if u play mostly ranged, skirmisher (+ EW) is still a lot of dmg

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/pfft-trying-not-to-laugh-laughing-holding-laugh-covering-laugh-gif-10899551814881068905

[void dragon]

imagine having recoil on a LASER gun

to this day i dont get it, specially when the sniper helbores have less

[dry galleon]

I'd love to run the inf lasgun more but I feel miserable using it.

I have a much better time with the laspistol.

[void dragon]

i gave up and im usint the mk5 helbore instead, its a FAR better infantry lasgun imo

[mortal horizon]

well, ainz's build is only doing this lol

[tall torrent]

they can use some serious help

[hollow ibex]

laspis and mk5 helby are the real ilas in this game lol

[dry galleon]

Real, especially with weight of fire. You can actually hit headshots with it.

[hollow ibex]

lol what the fuck are those flak adms

[dry galleon]

Even with exe stance laspistol blows it out of the water.

[tall torrent]

is that supposed to be a gotcha or smth I don't get it

[void dragon]

dumb idea: if they gave it a new special to burn some ammo in reserve to toss an energy grenade, would it make it more useful?

[mortal horizon]

no i just mean someone said "use ainz's build instead" and when i asked why just to understand, you said "bc this part isnt filled out"
but Ainz's build doesnt go down to skirmisher and EW either

[narrow frost]

dont think my build are the best by far, my gameslantern builds are just 1:1 what I use in my video

[mortal horizon]

should i rework 2 pts to add them?

[narrow frost]

I'd change a few things if I went back to that build

[tall torrent]

#veteran-class message

[void dragon]

you dont need the most optimal stuff to win, you need comon sense to beat havocs most of the time

[mortal horizon]

👍 understood, and im not always interested in using 'the best' sometimes playing something thematic, cool and functional is the most fun

[mortal horizon]

out of curiosity, what?

[tame lodge]

Considering the amount of exploding stuff that isn't blitz in this game

https://tenor.com/view/pfft-trying-not-to-laugh-laughing-holding-laugh-covering-laugh-gif-10899551814881068905

Overload
Showstopper
Psyker explosion

It could be really bad

[void dragon]

just would want something unique for the gun, specially since its something from the lore of the weapons

[tall torrent]

I had a much more radical idea before patch 1.9 where I told kez and cole that inf las IX needed smth like 40% more dmg and they thought I was crazy

then patch 1.9 gave vet ~70% more dmg so ig I was at least partially right in the end

[mortal horizon]

what is raycast radius? like a form of auto aim/targeting? Like how close or forgiving the game is saying "that was a headshot" vs not?

[tall torrent]

hitscan detection radius increase

it's not just for headshot, but all hits

[mortal horizon]

gotcha

[tall torrent]

also forgot to include hipfire spread lerp changes in there

I spent like 30s coming up with that

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1459272363664347248/cooking-does-he-know.gif

[mortal horizon]

i havent used the helbores much in h40 either, i would probably be better off using one of them in havoc instead of the normal lasgun

but i may try both tonight

ive seen a few variations of the h40 helbore builds, did they fix the t1 of the cleave blessing being better than the t4 a while back?

[tall torrent]

hotshot got patched yea

it's ok for maximizing per shot value esp for IV since it shoots very slow

and gunner/shotgunner like to lineup while they're moving

can cleave through 1 of them with hotshot IV

armourbane is only ok for shooting at crushers with IIIa & V

WoF and SF are pretty normal stuff

[mortal horizon]

ah ok, good to know.
Ya ive seen multiple h40 builds using the helbore suggesting hotshot,

but i see alot also rocking weight of fire + sustained fire, or surgical

what would you reccomend in general for h40, and which model?

i havent used them since pre-havoc days

[tall torrent]

no respite kinda needs ur team to set it up for u

[mortal horizon]

ya its a good number but, unsure how to trigger it

[tall torrent]

u need someone (or urself) to stagger

no respite can stack to a very high dmg bonus but this bonus is only active while the target is staggered

and helbore itself isn't good at staggering big guys

[mortal horizon]

ya, seems tricky to get uptime/value out of

[tall torrent]

no respite would be an insane blessing if it was on smth like shredder autopistol, unironically

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-the-train-thomas-thomas-the-tank-engine-thomas-and-friends-ishowspeed-gif-7297322352901128995

[mortal horizon]

so WOF/SF likely the go-to combo? with some room to mess around with hotshot and no respite.
What model would you reccomend for h40?

[tall torrent]

surgical mandatory
WoF / SF / hotshot (pick 1)

any variant is ok

stance + MF/FT

[mortal horizon]

ah, i see, surgical being mandatory makes sense, especially on the slow firing one

[mortal horizon]

ya what i was planning, just gotta figure out which model i like. Back in the auric malestrom was the hardest mode days i liked the heavy one, bc shooting crushers with it was fun, but i have a feeling that wont feel as good these days in h40 lol

[tall torrent]

if u minmax ur buffs hard, IV can 2 crit-headshot h40 crushers

[mortal horizon]

damn

wasnt expecting that considering all the enemy HP buffs and h40 stats that didnt exist back then when i last used it

cool

[tall torrent]

unfortunately

shock trooper turns vet into a lv27 character

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-the-train-thomas-thomas-the-tank-engine-thomas-and-friends-ishowspeed-gif-7297322352901128995

[mortal horizon]

haha wat do you mean lv27?

like "level 27"? or am i derping

[tall torrent]

takes 3 points (that otherwise u usually can spend on better things) to reach

[mortal horizon]

ohhh i see

[tall torrent]

on a class that has 5 flex points

[mortal horizon]

ya its a pita

im always struggling with how to take it and stretch my points for my recon las builds, which i use often

[tame lodge]

No Respite
My goat
Mentioned

[tall torrent]

8 points here but -1 for blitz, -2 for ability (both stance and VoC want subnode), so u actually only have 5 flex points

[tall torrent]

ur goat is washed

[mortal horizon]

someone tell fatshark to swap deadshot and shock trooper 👀

[turbid ibex]

Someone tell fatshark to fix that bottom section of the tree

Becauese holy fuck that shit is atrocious

[mortal horizon]

and you only have 2 with lasers bc you need 3 more for shocktrooper, rough ya

[tame lodge]

Yes hygiene is important

[void dragon]

i have done entire missions with Helbore without shocktrooper and its crazy how little i needed it, they are REALLY ammo efficient (to a lesser degre the other lasguns)

[tall torrent]

wouldn't be enough cuz MF still hard to access

[mortal horizon]

hmm, MF is still 5 points tho from the upper section like all the others are, is it just because the right side is SO STACKED the opportunity cost of dropping them feels too bad?

do you think they shuold move nodes like skirmisher, EW, recipocrity, and depserado around, maybe spread them out more in the upper parts of the 'lower' trees?

basically, do you think they should make changes to this and 'fix' it, or is is ok the way its currently balanced and you should have to give stuff up to take those powerful nodes?

just curious what your thoughts on the balance of it is

[sweet coyote]

Helbore quickly turning into my favourite build

[turbid ibex]

They need to make the bottom sections shorter

Whoever thought of making it take 5 points to reach the keystones deserves to be slapped with a fish

[sweet coyote]

Helbore with exhilirating takedown/Covering fire/born leader - always shootin, always buffin

[tall torrent]

spreading them would be nice but there aren't many places they can spread to without making the tree super awkward

[sly orchid]

They keystones were added at the end of the tree btw

[tall torrent]

I'd prefer if other dmg talents in other parts of the tree were better, and some non-dmg talents moved higher up

[sly orchid]

Fstshark didnt trim the talent tree so its really bloated with just stat buffs

[mortal horizon]

ya, this is probably a better solution. Make the other damage talents comparable.
my worry is peopel finding ways to combine the new ones and old ones causing power creep, but theoretically the points being limited and positioning should stop too much comboing

[tall torrent]

that's the thing, u kinda can't combine them well because vet only has 5 flex points

without major tree restructuring that's just gonna stay the case

[mortal horizon]

ya, true

oh no

this discords anti-christ has spoken (now that tanner is not really relevant anymore, it feels like everyone hates on mr e lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I26bKkOPgLE

how wrong will this be? lol

[tall torrent]

I'm not gonna watch it lol

[mortal horizon]

im a bit more forgiving on the youtubers than some here, i recognize the need for content creators to help the game grow and stay popular/relevant, and i think it helps bring people into the game and usually their opinions are 'close enough' that noobs can get use out of their videos

[void dragon]

wise considering the melee one

[tall torrent]

I never watched it either

he's just slop to me

[void dragon]

"he's just slop" end point

[wild vortex]

except DT youtubers have FREQUENTLY been straight up provably wrong about multiple things

and never admitted it

[mortal horizon]

oh ya, i know dont get me wrong

[wild vortex]

so providing misinformation doesn't help any noob

[mortal horizon]

i just dont think thats always this damnable sin, being slightly incorrect about balance in a video game

[void dragon]

at that point why watch them if what they say is worse than what you can put together?

[mortal horizon]

i think the presence for casuals and information and attention mr e spreads about the game is more positive for the community/game than it is negative, despite being wrong sometimes

[narrow frost]

killzone to skirmisher probably

[wild vortex]

yeah, it's the other shit that's damnable. Also, the assumption that they're doing anything to bring in players is kinda kek double u given their view counts, as miserable as that sounds.

[mortal horizon]

ya, true.
I just know when i get a friend into the game, and they end up liking it, the first thing they do is look for some content to watch

i always try to point them to Reginald over Mr E

but they always find Mr E

[hollow ibex]

grifters g o straight to hell 🙂‍↕️

[hollow ibex]

even reginald gets a lot of shit wrong

like all the time

at least he's a better player ig

[wild vortex]

people just hate him because he likes Saw

[tall torrent]

not much better

[mortal horizon]

and ive had some friends, who honestly arent great at the game (AM max difficulty) find success watching Mr E. They didnt want to listen to me (hearing a friend tell you whats best, some peopel its like kids listenign to their parents)
but watching Mr E, even if incorrect a lot, did help them improve, find builds, try new things and understand the game better

[void dragon]

we are allowed to like crappy weapons! i like cleavers but i know they are not fine

[mortal horizon]

im gonna disagree, i like reginald, i think hes good at the game and you dont need to have math'd out the entire skill trees to make builds and suggest things. He's a strong player, at the very least

[tall torrent]

anything below kuli lvl is not good to me

[mortal horizon]

not a single one of my friends who gets into this game, is even close to the skill level to play havoc 30+

theres lots of people like that

[wild vortex]

I think Reginald is astronomically better just because he's not an insufferable asshole

that's a really high bar for the internet in 2026

[mortal horizon]

i reguarly play with friends who cant stay alive in AM, so my perspective is a bit different

i only have a few buddies from here who are 'good players' i get to play with

most people arent h40 chads

Mr E makes my buddies who i teach the game look like a top .5% player lol

so sometimes you have to take these things with a different perspective - lots of people arent pushing past damnation/auric, and the advice/info/content from these youtubers can be helpful to them

even if not 100% correct all the time

[sweet coyote]

A half-decent build and someone showing you how/why it works goes far to teach you game literacy

[mortal horizon]

idk if that perspective makes sense

but i think im just more forgiving of the 'casual' scene

and the game NEEDS those players to survive

[void dragon]

he allowing the concept of he being mistaken and being open to learn from others is already a big step

[mortal horizon]

my buddies watch me solo AM's and they're amazed its even possible, they dont even understand players like ainz, kuli, etc etc exist

[tall torrent]

idk lol the last time I pointed out one of his (many) mistakes in a vid he responded "I read code and playtest for multiple hundred hours so u should get ur facts right"

so I was like ok buddy and stopped paying attention to him since then

[mortal horizon]

ya, i think hes a solid player who is not toxic and fun to listen to, respectable and mature.
thats enough for me to be cool with them

i dont NEED their builds to be mathmatically 100% correct

thats min maxer stuff, not everyone cares (i do, but i recognize im a degen lol)

[tall torrent]

it's not this

he actually just gets basic things wrong

and his spreadsheet is pretty lol

[void dragon]

sounds runde yet 100% understandable from you

[distant plaza]

i ain't watchin all of it
so i skipped to the end

[mortal horizon]

ah, ya thats fair. Sorry about that
usually hes pretty chill in my experience, ive played with him, Khandones, etc in h40 a half dozen times or so, they're fun guys.
I play with Rawk Plays a good bit too,
these are good guys who are solid players, IMO. But maybe my experience has just been good

[tall torrent]

for someone who reads code and playtest hundreds of hours I'd expect him to get things right