veteran-class

[silver patrol]

i thought it was going to be already harder starting from 1

[void dragon]

I wish, there are some havoc games that are easier than Aurics because of that carp

Under H20 should not exist

[slate wave]

Would love risk too but funny number go brrr

[void dragon]

this doesnt make funny number being high away, just makes so it is more a danger, wich makes funny number even MORE fun

[slate wave]

Oh I know I would love to actually balance Peril instead of just being able to run around at 100% all the time

[slate wave]

Does one got a decent autogun set up? Not asking for good just fun? I want to mess around more with them

[solid talon]

Trying to do some Heavy Laspistol stuff and this is what I got going so far [Gonna change out +Maniac to Ranged Critical chance when I get some more dockets] What do we think? I haven't gotten to try this out too much

[hollow ibex]

do you want a hybrid build?

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a02606aa-11c1-4470-9bb1-fc3f2d315f31/emperors-fusiliers

[vestal widget]

dumdum + one of ghost/desperado/infernus

[solid talon]

how close is the requirement for "Close Kill/Close Range Damage"?

[slate wave]

Take infernus for that dot

[vestal widget]

12.5m

[hollow ibex]

yup

but close range damage

is 12.5m, scalign down linearly to 30m

[solid talon]

ohman, thats real generous

[hollow ibex]

so if you need close ranged kill to proc a blessing

[hollow ibex]

it's within 12.5m

[vestal widget]

assume that's why you're asking anyway

[hollow ibex]

but if you get close range damage, it's actually out to 30m ust scaling down

[slate wave]

I’ll take it lol

[hollow ibex]

yeah close damage might be a bit overtuned lol

[vestal widget]

if you need to read mechanics of talents/blessings/etc read https://steamcommunity.com/id/kulii/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides&appid=1361210

[solid talon]

I was asking cause of Dum Dum, I wasnt sure how impactful it would be cause I didnt know the range lol

So dum dum and infernus

[hollow ibex]

dumdum is mandatory on laspiss

the second blessing has more variety

[vestal widget]

infernus is extremely fun because i hate bulwarks

[solid talon]

welp I gotta get some dockets to redo my blessings lmao

And what perks do we like on this? I was gonna go crit but I dunno what to make my damage one

[slate wave]

Infernus is so good for when you just need to tag a target with a bit of fire

[hollow ibex]

maniac + unyielding or crit would be my picks

[vestal widget]

any particular reason for maniac over flak

[hollow ibex]

laspis already has a very high flak adm

[vestal widget]

i run mostly flak + unyielding/crit on mine, but i haven't tested breakpoints for laspistols in forever

[hollow ibex]

but a much lower maniac adm

breakpoints don't really matter on laspis anyway

at least on mk2

[vestal widget]

truee

[slate wave]

Laspis has very high flak, I also run crit and maniac or unyielding but we are tagging heads for near infinite ammo

[vestal widget]

heh

[slate wave]

I mean las weapons best weapons now if I could only get a Long Las

Or a Shotlas…Fatshark please….I want the funny las shotgun

[hoary gorge]

shoutouts to this backpack being broken and using metallic shading on the leather straps and pockets

[thorn lark]

mfg this is the best veteran I have seen in 3 years (and not using meta) and one of the best clutch ever

I wish I had a recording

bro spent 20 minutes looping 3 areas until he could rez

[narrow frost]

Shovel and VA?

He is taking my builds....

We're gonna starve

[fair shale]

I stole your psyker build tbh

Is good

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-bite-surprise-attack-radlcies-gif-25293070

Nice

[thorn lark]

and exec

[narrow frost]

I actually can't use shout anymore

Stance is way more fun

[thorn lark]

i concurr

[narrow frost]

It's just a more balanced gaze

[fair shale]

Stance feels great

Love me walls

[narrow frost]

I got a few videos recorded of stance gaming

[thorn lark]

Ainz, I have played with Dorn, Ballhole and a bunch of h40 players in OCE. And most of them where clutching with a zealot and melee. But this guy MFG.

[narrow frost]

Yeah, I respect it

Rare to see good players

[thorn lark]

Yeah and not a fake h40 ragequitting after dying in the first 5 minutes

you can share your video btw?

[willow prairie]

please hide the unnecessary information

[narrow frost]

https://youtu.be/4csRClzNRjo?si=1BnyVFk0uZXbJy_e

I have this one up rn

[thorn lark]

that was you???

[willow prairie]

can a single person here turn off all the useless shit and tidy up their scoreboard 😭

[narrow frost]

But another that I need to make a thumbnail and title for

[thorn lark]

I like seeing all the data

[willow prairie]

yeah but there a better way and im sure as shit you're not using ALL the data

😭

[thorn lark]

using power DI?

[willow prairie]

no literally just go into scoreboard setting

turn off unnecessary shit or combine them

you don't need to know you deal 12 melee damage and 43 ranged damage to elites

you just need to know you deal 55 total

[thorn lark]

it is true but it's mostly laziness

I removed the tier 3 that should be better -_-

[fair shale]

Does krak with 75 percent more damage one shot havoc crushers?

+rot armor

[willow prairie]

yes

iirc

[fair shale]

I'll give that a try, thanks

[thorn lark]

don't you need the ogryn node as well?

[fair shale]

Have that one already

[thorn lark]

ok so that should do the trick

[fair shale]

Tbh theyre just not one shotting rn and I'm debating shredder frags or smokes over them

[willow prairie]

both of them are good for havoc tbf

bleed usually does jack shit at 6 stack so you usually have to throw 2 but its good cc

might want to take the one with double throw

while smoke don't require anything

[fair shale]

Nah I agree, and Kraks don't feel impactful enough to me rn

[fair shale]

Ik, I used shredders for like 800 hours

Defo less tbh

But still 3 digits

Theyre my preferred vet nade+I'm running uhhh

Serrated so

Should stack with that

Defo dont have the extra point for double throw tbh

Maybe if it was more likely

Idk

I throw a krak and it kills maybe 3 if they bunch up

I could throw a shredder and i feel like it'd help me overall with my preferred crusher method of "i walk up to you with a powersword and like 3 tap you tops"

[hollow ibex]

trying out mk1 shovel again

god why is the unyielding damage so shit

[fair shale]

You can stagger the crusher during overhead or you can kill it

You can't do both

[fast shale]

I'm starting to like combat axe - bolt pistol way more than recon - dueling sword

Shame I got no proper bolt pistol skins, would have changed enterely asap

[hollow ibex]

idk if there are any actually good skins for bistol

[elder fiber]

the pay2lose skin was good until they put out the candle

[willow prairie]

yeah its the only weakness of the weapon imo

uncanny + bleed carry the damage on tanky enemy pretty hard

[tall torrent]

yes and 2 other dmg talents usually

[fair shale]

Alright

I'm kinda not liking it rn

But I also don't want to sacrifice anything

[unique orchid]

I love krak, makes dealing with big guys real easy

[fair shale]

Tbh it just feels like it only kills 1 dude unless I get lucky on density

And uh

I dont like throwing it

[tall torrent]

krak wants u to play with enemy slots

[fair shale]

Like I cant send it deep into a horde

[unique orchid]

Yeah, krak is an anti-tank grenade

[fair shale]

Play with enemy slots? Like gambling?

[unique orchid]

You cant huck it like a frag

[tall torrent]

no

enemy slotting mechanic

how they position themselves

DT uses same slotting as VT2

[fair shale]

No i mean if I try it just magnetizes to the first armored dude instead of, idk, the fat crusher blob 3 enemies beyond em

[fair shale]

I believe you but higher havocs feel like chaos

Lile

[unique orchid]

Yeah, its magnetic, flies into carapace and sticks to flak/unyielding

[fair shale]

There's just shit infront of you

[fair shale]

Ik, don't like it

I want to semtex it

Not like

Have it having a mind of its own

[unique orchid]

Just use the frags then

[fair shale]

Thats what I'm leaning rn

[unique orchid]

The krak's specific purpose is killing carapace and hurting bosses

[tall torrent]

frag issue is that they aren't as high impact as krak

[unique orchid]

Also, sidenote, underhanding the krak turns off the magnet

[fair shale]

I thought frag technically did more but it did it over time

[tall torrent]

2 frags going off is less impact than a krak going off in a big crusher/bulwark mix horde

[unique orchid]

Frag is just chaff clear

[fair shale]

Like, the auto seeking but it'll still stick?

[tall torrent]

yes

[fair shale]

I'll give that a try

Thanks

[tall torrent]

but u can't throw it far

also

for close range

[unique orchid]

Bosses and oggies dont give a SHIT about frags

[tall torrent]

u can throw at ground then it bounces up

[fair shale]

Ime they don't give a shit about kraks either

Need the node tho

[unique orchid]

You do need the node, but also you seem to fundamentally misunderstand using the krak

[fair shale]

I mean

[unique orchid]

3 vets with krak grenades can kill a boss the second they see it

[fair shale]

You throw it at the big armored thing and it dies

[unique orchid]

Its hilarious

[fair shale]

I'm just very accustomed to Shredders

Which made space

[unique orchid]

Yeah, i can definitely see how using the krak like a frag would be... frustrating

[thorn lark]

the ration event quickly became like that, it wad either 2 vet with kraks deleting each blob or a an arb with a joltaic mine and a krak vet

[tall torrent]

krak's problem is needing tinkerer to function properly for killing crushers

it's a stupid tax node

[fair shale]

Idk, cause I'm not running node rn I feel like I throw it at a crusher, it doesn't kill it, and I go melee it anyway

[tall torrent]

it just should have instakill override within blast center by default

[fair shale]

So I might as well run frags if I'm gonna be in melee

If that makes sense?

[unique orchid]

Yeah

The tinkerer tax is a bit annoying but it doesnt kill me thankfully

[fair shale]

I legit don't know what I'd drop for it off your build

[unique orchid]

Anything on the chopping block?

Whats your build anyhow?

[fair shale]

Lemme find it cause thats different

[unique orchid]

My brother in christ you need to pick a struggle what the hell is this

[tall torrent]

?

wats wrong with it

[fair shale]

This one

[unique orchid]

Its all over the place

[fair shale]

Is what I remember

[unique orchid]

Pick a lane, do you want to be good at shooting or in melee?

[fair shale]

Tbh I think I'd take tinkerer, drop 2 nades for uhhh

Reload speed

[tall torrent]

I never made that intending for havoc

[tall torrent]

but it's just optimal??

like

what are u building

I am curious

[hollow ibex]

i don't think you understand how builds work...

[unique orchid]

I build shock troop shout with marksman

[fair shale]

Ig this got misinterpreted then

[unique orchid]

Its a build for shooting elites and buffing team mates

[fair shale]

Cause when I asked about shotgun builds I was asking about them for havoc

[tall torrent]

then u just cope with worse shotgun or no good krak

shotgun issue is needing extra spec

most guns have that problem

if krak didn't tax on tinkerer then more guns would be better

[unique orchid]

But yeah i would drop double nades if you wanna cut something for tinker

[fair shale]

Tbh worse shotgun would be just be slower reload

I think

Or uhb

Dropping the auto load perk

From WS

[tall torrent]

ya

[fair shale]

To pick up Tink

[fair shale]

Tbh

I could drop auto load for tink

Cause you can just special the slug in and get your 25 percent speed from empty

[tall torrent]

that's cool but wats wrong with mine

I don't get it

[unique orchid]

Im too used to mine probablu

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664591642967408640/1440043734233251944/push.mp4?ex=6921febc&is=6920ad3c&hm=fc0c99f1b92077411567df4ed22bb7a40939895cd6599586a79ddbd19b45e643&

[fair shale]

Idk, I just don't see the value in 2 nade throws

It always happens on the second nade I throw lmfao

[tall torrent]

grenadier is top tier for frag

[fair shale]

I believe that

[tall torrent]

for krak it's kinda just there for +1 capacity

[fair shale]

But it never procs when I want it to

[hollow ibex]

i always take grenadier on frags

[fair shale]

Nah I mean

20 percent chance to throw 2 nades

I hate gambling perks vs consistency perks tho

[hollow ibex]

young people reflexes 😭

[unique orchid]

I come from the perspective of normally running InfLas and Shovel, so what you have does NOT fly with them haha

Thats the majority of it

Also WS and exe sounds stupid to me on paper but im sure its better than i imagine

[hollow ibex]

people need to just stop thinking of ES as the "ranged ult"

[fair shale]

ES is "i want toughness now"

Or uh

[hollow ibex]

yeah and stagger immunity

[fair shale]

Very consistently

ES just works

You can kill things in melee and keep proccing it

[unique orchid]

I thought exe cut off when you swapped to melee

It used to at least, i think

[fair shale]

Yeah, changed

You can melee in exe now

[short agate]

Ye

Accuracy shoveling

[unique orchid]

Hm, more you know

[thorn lark]

It's old man gaze now

[slow spade]

ES also gives 10% toughness regen now too

[unique orchid]

I will admit my build is a bit shit but its designed around being a "sort of accurate" marksman (cant click heads, but can click near them)

[slow spade]

So you basically shrug off ranged fire

[unique orchid]

Thankfully the sternum/neck area is a lot easier to hit and sometimes even pops their head by accident

[slow spade]

Can't go wrong as long as you get the kill without dying :p

[unique orchid]

Indeed, Im not bad in melee either, learned the fatshark shuffle in VT2

I took the approach of "accuracy by volume" approach, middle mark inflas so i can dump a good amount of shots for decent damage

That and my ears prick up every time i hear a special spawn on the map, so im pretty much always looking for them

[kindred epoch]

I posted this on the reddit forever ago want to post it here. I AM S P E E D

[tall torrent]

ES is essentially “veteran pro max plus” instead of “ranged dps ult”

[fair shale]

Im so glad ES isnt "I'm dying with my gun out or so help me god" anymore

[tall torrent]

Could still use more buffs

[fair shale]

Tbh

I would like if it stopped swapping me to my gun

A lot

[unique orchid]

It was originally designed to be gun+

The whole of the original thing was gun+

[tall torrent]

The team-share node needs to be refresh stance on teammates’ highlighted elite/specialist kills

[unique orchid]

Youre playing John shootman Darktide, shoot the men

[tall torrent]

And ES should at least have an option in settings to turn off its FOV modifier

Base game should have more FOV settings tbh

[tall torrent]

I don’t mind it that much

[fair shale]

It would just be QoL

Its not like, make or break or anything

[tall torrent]

I think it’s a bonus tbh

For drawing gun faster

U can always swap to melee fast

[fair shale]

I wish it didnt have piss filter wither

I dislike the vignettes a lot of abilities have

Kill Zone is one of the worst offenders

[hollow ibex]

can be removed tbf

(if you're not a console pleb)

[tall torrent]

Killzone has a screen effect?

[fair shale]

I might be thinking of the wrong talent

[tall torrent]

I have not taken that dogshit since 1.9+ I wouldn’t know

[fair shale]

One vet talent has the same vignette as ES but its white

And its constantly on

[tall torrent]

Focus target?

Marksman’s focus has a slight one too

[fair shale]

Nah cause its always on, I think its KZ

Like all game

[tall torrent]

But both only show at max stacks

Comp urge has one when it’s active

[fair shale]

It mightve been At Arms Length tbh

It was either AaL or KZ

[tall torrent]

What even is that

What’s at arms length

[fair shale]

Old inverse of KZ

[tall torrent]

Is that a vet talent?

[fair shale]

You generated toughness when you weren't touched

Yes

[tall torrent]

No

[fair shale]

They removed it

[tall torrent]

That’s CaB

[fair shale]

Baked it into ES

[tall torrent]

CaB doesn’t have screen effect

[fair shale]

AAL doesn't exist anymore tbf

So its not like you can just go check either

[tall torrent]

Was that before talent tree

[fair shale]

Ill check if its KZ after I eat

[tall torrent]

Because it wasn’t a thing in any veteran tree implementation

[fair shale]

AAL existed pre tree but I havent used KZ since treework

It used to be generating toughness if no enemies in 8 meters

Then it was

Generate toughness if you havent been hit by melee

Then it got removed in Treework

But I'm pretty sure I'm talking about Kill Zone

Ill double check in like 30 minutes or something

[tall torrent]

That was still CaB

And CaB has never had screen effect

[fair shale]

I think I'm talking about KZ tbh

[tall torrent]

KZ never had screen effect either

[fair shale]

Im gonna check in a minute anyway

Ik its something in vet tree

And ik the vignette was so annoying I stopped using the perk over it lmfao

[gilded wraith]

KZ uptime puts a smile on my face.

[fair shale]

I think it is mmf and I'm simply an insane person

Idk

[hollow ibex]

most skilled purgatus gameplay

one of these fuckers on the team aggroed the DH

and killed me

[ember forum]

Dang

[tall torrent]

MF’s effect is pretty minor tbh

[vital copper]

Guys what is the bast weapon for veteran

[hollow ibex]

power sword

[tall torrent]

Best melee power sword VI
Ranged can vary, lots of good options on vet

[narrow widget]

ps6
ranged is like
recon las, helbore, plasma, bolter, vig auto, etc etc etc all work

[tall torrent]

Ranged entirely depends on how much u want to invest into ranged-specific talents

Best gun in terms of investing as minimally as possible is probably plasma & inf auto

After that, revolver, DB shotgun and vig auto

[hollow ibex]

combat shotty too

[narrow widget]

prob the combat shot guns

yeah what sirosky said

[tall torrent]

Then boltgun / helbore if u want to spec ranged more at the cost of some melee potential

[tall torrent]

Debatably costs 1 more point cuz it wants a reload speed talent

[tribal tangle]

"vetsecondreworkwen" how much you wanna bet that guy thinks arbitrator is too weak

[hollow ibex]

hmm well i think you either take always prepared or tac reload anyway

don't need both

[sharp epoch]

that mean you aggro it

[hollow ibex]

nope

some idiot aggroed it to like 99% nearly instantly

probably shot it repeatedly

detection radius expanded

i get caught in the expanded detection radius

i get fucked

except for anticipating that my dumbass teammates would shoot the DH

there was nothing i could've done

was very careful to play outside of the non-aggroed detection radius, but that obviously wasn't enough of a precaution with auric pubs

[serene bough]

i like what im reading about the new class coming up

my opinion has changed i look forward to their addition

[hollow ibex]

yeah HIVe ganger looks really fun gameplay-wise

sounds like exactly my playstyle

[faint beacon]

Still staying loyal to Vet

Cause being able to be aggressive with melee and then something pissing me off far away gets domed immediately in the head

[silver patrol]

uhhh that's how you play arbites too

what a coincidence

[faint beacon]

Who gets grenades faster though 🚬

[pseudo fiber]

It sounds super fun I can't wait

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

This is how I play Arby's

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-dog-sleeping-sleeping-dog-dog-sleeping-tiny-eepy-dog-gif-2292331323183720739

Then this is how I play vet

https://tenor.com/view/the-kill-cod-montage-sniping-montage-sniper-gif-7453980808548041523

[faint beacon]

What the scab bomber sees

[fair shale]

Break me down, bury me, bury me, I am finished with you

[thorn lark]

@slow sky mahboi

[slow sky]

I really didn't expect that video to do so well
Ik like 3.5k views isnt a lot in the grand scheme of things but it is to me, cuz
Im barely even a channel
Most of the views I get were related to new stuff from an embargo drop, which this wasnt
And its still straight up a steam replay export so the bitrate is absolute dogshit and blurry as hell, so the overall quality isnt great at all

[distant plaza]

another kill_tracker aficionado, hell yeah

[slow sky]

A mix of dopamine and real time feedback of "is what im doing working"

[pseudo fiber]

Your videos are good and your thumbnails help a lot tbh

[thorn lark]

@narrow frost has better thumbnails IMHO

[hollow ibex]

ainz's thumbnails have way more style

i hate the style tho

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/fast-cat-cat-excited-jumping-gif-5054843775616689213

[fast shale]

Is it good idea to bring comabt axe to havoc with weapon spec and plasma?

Or should stick with something with uncanny?

[narrow frost]

bring what you want, Caxe is good single target

but losses its strong horde clear in havoc

[fast shale]

Woah really? so no brutal momentun procs?

[calm shard]

hell yeah

[calm shard]

why would it? vet has real melee damage now

skirmisher+exploit weakness clears melee breakpoints

[narrow widget]

caxe is a great weapon

[fast shale]

Aig, nice, I have been using knife but I kinda prefer the combat axe, even if I sacrifice some movement

[narrow frost]

it still can acticate BM but its harder to do so

[fast shale]

Btw for blessings still the same no?

Brutal and headtaker

'¿

[narrow frost]

yes they are the same

[upbeat geyser]

Gun go bang then heretic go bye bye

[neon pawn]

Anyone wanna help me with on over watch on malice

Need three people

[hollow ibex]

try the lfg channels

[tall torrent]

Cleave

[tall torrent]

u still need help?

[tame lodge]

Up for a game if you need a 3rd

Only if you need though

The flak helmet on commodore's looks interesting

[neon pawn]

Yuh

[tame lodge]

The flashlight one

[tall torrent]

wats ur fatshark friend code

[neon pawn]

What’s that

[tall torrent]

menu - social - find player (bottom right) - click on the number string

[tame lodge]

Ooh psyker googles also look good

Goddamnit

I will not support this shop
I will not support this shop
I will - but it got better though

Goddamnit

[neon pawn]

1424186778

[austere pine]

i think i just played with a cheating psyker?

[tame lodge]

What did you see

[austere pine]

laspistol, scrier's, running around and oneshotting everything

ran into 2 daemonhosts and killed them before i even got the chance to get my bearings

am i just behind on laspistol gunker? that looked hella sus

[tame lodge]

It's Laspistol gunker
It could be just it

Psyker soloing daemonhost is also possible

[austere pine]

my thing is that it's either some sort of damage cheating, it's aimbot, or it's just godlike aim with a super strong build

[tame lodge]

Yeah hard to say

[austere pine]

and i'm not gonna rack on that person's build, but it did look suspicious as all hell

[distant dune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1207081881443631115/1441262591002542212/119221-db764fe6e905b39caa9d05dcd374df7b.png?ex=69227963&is=692127e3&hm=fbbb81147753c09dcd1cd5058a0d477c836c85d7692ac1aa3f64a71e15c706d6&

Do with this meme what you will :3

[spark helm]

Right tree psyker running a laspistol and playing out of their mind isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility.

👋🏾

And it's not too hard to aim well with a laspistol while running those kinds of builds. You're rewarded for just pushing yourself because it can do much in the first place.

If they took disrupt destiny, you just light things up and shoot the face in most cases.

[austere pine]

oh i don't doubt that it is possible. gunker is the strongest build in the game for a reason. it just looked extremely weird at some points where scab gunners just kept going down as quickly as the person was able to shoot the thing

[spark helm]

I wouldn't know since I wasnt there. Laspistol also has a decent amount of leniency to it as well. Now depending on how quick it really happened from your pov, entirely on the table.

Wouldn't even really know how people cheat in this game fr when it's like super obvious. This is me not considering most of what some have had to say about mods from time to time with what's considered cheating

[gilded rock]

@slow sky Have you been terrorizing pubs again

[hybrid plover]

Psykinautics maybe.

[slow sky]

i was working today

i havent played much live aurics in a while, been too busy

[calm shard]

yeah I do this with vraks sometimes when I'm bored

laspistol could 100% do it too

psyker has by far the easiest time soloing daemonhosts of any class

[gilded rock]

Must be someone who's also taken on the flame

[slow sky]

@austere pine what was their name

[austere pine]

greenFN

on eu

[slow sky]

oh on eu

then i wouldnt know em

[gilded rock]

I was only joking about you having disciples but damn 😨

[slow sky]

i mean stuff like this happens

[dapper coyote]

There's alot of players actually copying Coles build

[slow sky]

and i also converted a LOT of zealot chat into using tac axes on zealot AND psyker ages ago

[dapper coyote]

DB WS Shovel = Havoc 40 trip

[slow sky]

ive still only seen 1 person in party finder in the last like 2 months using db, and i think they were using psword with it

not including khan

[dapper coyote]

Psword is fine if you are ok with spamming the button for it (i rebound it to E to make the spam better)

[tall torrent]

unfortunately most aren't remotely near his lvl

[dapper coyote]

True

[gilded rock]

I copied his melee psyker build and took inspiration for starting to use shovel

I like shovel on my vet's nade spam build

[tame lodge]

Gotta start somewhere

[slow sky]

i just realized the start of hab warren has a ladder on the side

[slow sky]

tbh lvl is just a "how much time have i wasted" counter

[tall torrent]

i meant skill lvl

[tame lodge]

Lmao

Saw that day 1

It's so useless as well

😭

It's just faster to go up the ramp

[hybrid plover]

How did people not know the tac axe is good on both of those classes 😭

[tame lodge]

Because it was shit

And still is

[narrow frost]

they got influenced by youtubers and people like higui

and it doesnt solve most newbie problems instantly, carapace

[tame lodge]

"and people like higui"

😭

[hybrid plover]

Tac axe got me my first h40. I'm legally obligated to say it's good.

[hybrid plover]

It's almost like it has a special with a ridiculous stagger value for a reason.....

I just can't put my finger on it though.

[tame lodge]

Just CRIT bro

[calm shard]

hell yeah

[hybrid plover]

Tbf I was running that before I was even in this server

Before the rework even when running kraks with it was actually not ideal because of vets awful tree.

[fast shale]

What is the best mark for tac axe against carapace?

If there is even one

[hybrid plover]

I like mk4 the best for carapace

[fast shale]

Thanks

[fresh spire]

riposte vs precog for DS? for wep specialist

[silver patrol]

i prefer riposte

precog doesn't last long

they are both very good

[tame lodge]

I prefer precognition

Because big damage brain happy

[burnt pelican]

Its like car blinkers

[steep flower]

ppl can't combine 2 to 2 so not surprised

[dapper coyote]

Fr tho

[unreal nova]

Head says it's the halfway point between knoife and combat axe. Lul.

[steep flower]

1st evolution; pokemon style

[unreal nova]

Hilariously.

[hot dragon]

If you mean the DB shotty mk1 shovel build I have copied it and use it with some success. I’m just a lowly Auric player but it feels great to play. Thanks for the idea

[livid sphinx]

One thing i've realized about vet is that you shouldn't be in front cuz most of the time people just abandon you 😭

[lost silo]

wrong chat

[dapper coyote]

I love loose cannon even more, someone in the team spots something amidst a horde and he just responds with thank you magos oblivious

[fast shale]

Good morning, should I sacrifice the melee nodes to improve my keystone? build is Bolter - shovel

[scenic bronze]

Urgh why did talents reset again what's new

[stuck gorge]

If you haven’t played in awhile vet zealot and psyker all got reworks

[slate wave]

Depends on how often you are using that shovel, personally I run a Helbore Shovel set-up with no keystones because I wanted more melee support stuff

[scenic bronze]

Looks like new connections to me

[stuck gorge]

well yea all of them got nodes moved around and new nodes / old nodes combined into one

[frank basin]

7

[mystic glade]

db on demon time

[ocean idol]

people say zealot the worst

but so far i'veb een outperforming everyone on zealot

and could not do it on others

[mystic glade]

zealot is giga strong but its kinda odd if you cant outperform on other classes

[narrow widget]

how good each class is depends on how good the pilot is

but it's easier to outperform on the other classes

[ocean idol]

I feel like people massively underestimate martyr

it is both giga strong and v ery easy to play

[azure narwhal]

Send entire build if you could

[slate wave]

I say it come down to how you pilot it, I have see Zealots do amazing clutches and carry a whole game but the same can be said about a Psyker or Vet with less skill tax investment

[ocean idol]

Zealot has best mobility and survivability though

[ocean idol]

I just had match with 3 psykers

i outperformed 2 of them

and those 2 had inferno lol

The one who outperformed me had void

[slate wave]

Again really comes down who is piloting, how they play and so on, I can count on two hands how many Zealots outperformed in a match and 7 were Stealth. But I digress Zealot is cool, personally I don’t care for the class because I get the big sword fantasy through Psyker and if I want to run and gun Las pistol Vet is just an answer from the Emperor himself

[hollow ibex]

honestly i just feel like zealot doesn't bring that much to the table in terms of interesting gameplay

[mystic glade]

any class can outdamage any other class, especially in auric

[hollow ibex]

i'm just too much of a sucker for hybrid playstyles

[ocean idol]

It was havoc you dummy

[mystic glade]

40?

[ocean idol]

No, like 20

[mystic glade]

then thats auric to me

[slate wave]

Same really and vet can give that in spades

[ocean idol]

your mom is auric

[hollow ibex]

yeh it's why i main vet

[slate wave]

Truly living up to the name there buddy

Fingers crossed that Hive Scum can scratch that hybrid itch, because right now all I play is vet or psyker.

I feel off hard from Arbites, like the executioner shotgun Castigator stance pairing is great for add clear but goes meh.

[hollow ibex]

Same

Arbi was fun for a bit

And has strong class identity

But it just lacks variety

[heavy rover]

Yeah, I had no expectations on the new class reveal. The mechanics of hive ganger got me very curious

[ocean idol]

same

Second most boring thing after arbites

how they managed to find absolutely worst option for a class every time

[hollow ibex]

Thematically I don’t care much for HIVe ganger

But gameplay description looks amazing

[slate wave]

Arbites is very hold the line, everything is CQC, and you are kinda just there either spraying with buck shot or playing with shield maul

[heavy rover]

I am looking forward to a hybrid, close range and agile fighter

[ocean idol]

But every class is agile fighter

[heavy rover]

Plus I'm curious how the stim mechanics can be used to help the team

[slate wave]

I was sold because I love Nercomunda

[ocean idol]

When was last time you really used block agaisnt anything but ragers

We use dodging 90% of the time

[karmic goblet]

Hive Ganger is cool but you could already make a hive ganger with literally any class through cosmetics and backstory

Should have been a class that dropped with release

[ocean idol]

have you not read the forum? Yes, you can transfer stim effect to your team

[slate wave]

Not necessarily true, Agile is not just dodging but constant movement with little to no stam usage; you can get that on a Blaze GS Psyker where crits count as dodging so I never have to dodge I can just sprint to every group and not use stam

[slate wave]

Or gave hive ganger’s skill ideas to Zealot

[heavy rover]

Sorry I meant in the sense of how you can tune the stim talents itself and what kind of buffs you can choose

[slate wave]

If crit chance is an option then I see no reason to not take that in my drug cocktail unless true healing is in there

[karmic goblet]

Fr bro a stimmed up zealot would have been way cooler than like the charge ability

[slate wave]

Exactly imagine a man doing a line of coke for the emperor

[ocean idol]

probably just attack speed/power

[slate wave]

I doubt just that because we get 30 points for drugs, if it is just two options why give it to us

At that point just give me the standard stims

[ocean idol]

Now i want Eversor assassin

[slate wave]

I doubt we’ll get an assassin of any type Dark Tide is about the little guys who die in the 1000000s, assassin kill Space Marines and Demons

[karmic goblet]

If we get the cosmetics for it you could probably actually make an Eversor with the Hive Scum class

[hollow ibex]

Eh vets slow as fuck unless you run knife or DS

[karmic goblet]

Using like the Anarchist voice or smth

[ocean idol]

which is why we also should get Chaos SM boss

and eversor assassins actually specifically good for situations liek we have

To slaughter small armies to get to their targets

[slate wave]

Arbires too, fat and slow Orgyns out pace us

[ocean idol]

it is not fat and slow, all calsses have same base speed

[hollow ibex]

not if you take March

[karmic goblet]

Ogyrns take bigga steps than umies

[hollow ibex]

vet's the one that really suffers from lack of move speed bosts

boosts

i take close and kill and the 5% move speed node

on all my melee builds

[karmic goblet]

I think Vet is supposed to be long-range

[hollow ibex]

and it just feels alright

[narrow frost]

Was

Pre patch 13

Not anymore

[slate wave]

If we get a Chaos SM boss, I think DT would have lost the sauce. A lesser demon sure but a Space Marine???? Nah a single strike team of Space Marines would have cleaned up Atoma far faster, less than a year or so if everything went right. 4 dudes with garbage and drugs ain’t killing a SM

[narrow frost]

?

We kill beasts of nurgle and demonhosts in 1 shot

[gilded vine]

I think 4 named characters with access to plasma and power weapons can kill a SM

[narrow frost]

We kills thousands of ogryn traitors in missions

[karmic goblet]

Well

Dozens

[narrow frost]

There is no scalable power level in dt

[karmic goblet]

But by the time you get to that point you're an Acolyte of the Inquisition

So like

You got the power

[narrow frost]

A zealot with DS and shroud could 1 shot nurgle

Just needs to stack uncanny and proc duelist

[karmic goblet]

Nothing but the emperors grace guiding the bullet

[slate wave]

Because they are lesser demons, and it’s a video game lol. A space marine. A chaos space marine at that is nuts; probably gonna be a death guard (if it’s Black Legion I would rather die).

I am so done with black legion

[karmic goblet]

If there was a Space Marine bossfight I'd imagine you keep fighting until your teammates slowly die off and then that's the end of the level or it cuts to a cutscene where you manage to escape having barely scratched it

[slate wave]

Where are my boys the World Eaters?

[narrow frost]

There is already plague marine voicelines

But they were probably just placeholders

[karmic goblet]

Yk what would be awesome

[narrow frost]

Beastmen

[gilded vine]

They could just do a homebrew CSM warband fatshark made up like the moebian 6th are for traitor guard

[karmic goblet]

If there was a level where you're on the same hab block as a Space Marine and as you go through the level you get to watch him fight a Plague Marine through the walls like some kind of universal ride

[slate wave]

I know but if we get a bossfight either we retreat or use a melta bomb to drop a small town on him. I don’t want to win against a Space Marine. I am okay with Daemonhosts and Beasts of Nurgle because yeah that’s shit the guard has to deal with and kill. But a SM is a death sentence

[karmic goblet]

True

[karmic goblet]

Yeah I agree I think a bossfight with a space marine would end with fleeing or slightly damaging it

[slate wave]

True a warband could be funny but that boy better be so gross and nasty. A true grandchild of Nurgle

[surreal rune]

if you get within some kilometers of a plague marine you might as well already become a poxwalker

[void dragon]

As a bare minimum they should release an abhuman appreciation cosmetics, if ObeseFish and GW are allergic to give us more abhumans

[spice shard]

FS said they arent doing SMs

[slate wave]

Exactly! But again we should already be infected with how often we are in that damn hive

[karmic goblet]

Could transform the Ogyrn into a hulking beastman for halloween cosmetics

[slate wave]

Will I finally be able to be a cat girl? a goat?

[karmic goblet]

Or maybe the Veteran

Some TF2 shit

[ocean idol]

lesser demons even rarer than SMs, what are you talking about, and borderline impossible to kill without a priest

[void dragon]

Finally with new class will be able to become a Stim-fueled bioweapon assassin cat

[surreal rune]

the handy corruption mechanic:

even after missions i think our rejects get thoroughly cleansed

[karmic goblet]

When you meet catgirl fine shyt in your hab block but she lowkey worships chaos BUT she's a 10/10

[void dragon]

Ogryn with a funny goat head would be cool, anyone saying otherwise is liar

[ocean idol]

you keep missing the point. The things we already easily deal with are stronger than space marines

[hybrid flame]

Minotaur

[void dragon]

Minotaur at the Mourningstar

[ocean idol]

bruh wtf wrong with your power perception

Demons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space marines

1 demon host can destroy half a legion

[hybrid flame]

We kill demon hosts so.....

[karmic goblet]

How come we can fight deamonhosts then

[ocean idol]

Same reason we can fight thousands of heretics at once

[void dragon]

We are named characters

[ocean idol]

gaming

[spice shard]

because the writers want us to

[karmic goblet]

Oh brother

[void dragon]

Playable character power boost

[hybrid flame]

Plot armor

[ocean idol]

Like lorewise space marines would not be able to deal with the scale of threat we face all the time at auric +

[karmic goblet]

So I guess that means that a SM bossfight is plausible

[hybrid flame]

Fiction

[spice shard]

nope
FS said no SMs

[slate wave]

Lesser daemons???? Brother they are the rank and file of a chaos incursion, heretics summon them in droves with rituals. And guardsmen, sisters of battle and the like kill lesser daemons with bolter and las fire because they are physical manifestations.

Greater Daemons outrank Spaces by a huge margins.

Daemonhost are Psykers who lose themselves to the warp and get possessed. Some inquisitors in lore have pet Daemonhost that they use to get information. What are you getting at???

[ocean idol]

he did not say possible, he said plausible

and it is plausible

[surreal rune]

not every demonhost is as strong as the strongest weve seen

[spice shard]

plausible requires it to not be impossible

[karmic goblet]

Debatable if a bunch of Inquisition lackeys can do it a SM can do it 10x easier

[ocean idol]

no? Demons can only be killed by faith pretty much. So sisters, yeah, are great against demons. Guardsmen? No, they all die

[surreal rune]

the admonition had attempted to summon some greater nurgle demon through rodin's or rinda's body

[void dragon]

What they say is that we will not be using playable SM, but there is a chance we have a death guard CSM as a boss

[ocean idol]

Yes, demonhosts can be controlled

But power-wise, they are basically indestructable

[spice shard]

thats not what i said at all?

[ocean idol]

1 demon host destroyed a titan in Eisenhorn books ffs

[slate wave]

Guardsmen have killed lesser daemons before I can give you a few books to prove the point

[spice shard]

bro cant even put words in peoples mouths right

[void dragon]

Idk, but what the devs say is that Darktide should have the janitor humans as heroes

[ocean idol]

LOREWISE FFS LEARN TO READ

Or do you seriously consider 4 people beating 3 thousands withing matter of minutes at any way plausible

[heavy rover]

bold of you to assume us rejects can read

[void dragon]

For each reject with plot armor we must remember the millions that die as part of the lore

[hybrid flame]

Sounds like there might be such a broad range in power levels amongst these individual classes saying a general " they are stronger" doesn't really apply

[heavy rover]

We're simply respecting the lore as per what is expected of rejects

[ocean idol]

Nah, that plot armor level ridiculous even for a space marine. They are good, but not THAT good to beat thousands upon thousands

[slate wave]

Not true since they need to have a body to manifest, if the body is destroyed or unusable the daemon cannot manifest it is limited by its host. It’s why some psykers can keep the daemon at bay. Why sanctioned psykers are trained to that degree. To navigate the perils of the warp without going ape.

Typically why the imperium just shots the freaks

[void dragon]

Ah sad days, I was hoping that we pull the SM2 squad defeating a Hive tyrant strat so we fight one weakened

[hybrid flame]

Like, canonically 4 rejects can kill a DH. but ALSO canonically 1 DH can take out a titan.

[void dragon]

I have a feeling that Warhammer isn't meant to be taken so serious like having accurate power scales

[hybrid flame]

I agree, which so why this whole discussion is so entertaining.

[heavy rover]

They gave us character names and let us take off our helmet. We got enough plot armour to take on Horus

[ocean idol]

Warhammer overall does, it is just action games don't

like in SM 2 one space marine easily kills lictor

in the lore you need whole squad and even then you will probably take casualties

[surreal rune]

Daemonhosts like Cherubael are already powerful daemons to begin with, and stabilized by possessing a corporeal form, and then subdued by the binding ritual.

The randomly possessed daemonhost tends to be a random dipshit daemon that just gets lucky possessing a dumb psyker or prisoner

[void dragon]

That Lictor faced Titus, it was doomed from the start

Rule of cool said so

[ocean idol]

Abaddon is highest i can give, take it or leave it

[surreal rune]

Demonhosts can be that strong, and even our enemies have attempted to create a very dangerous demonhost

but most if not all of the demonhosts in darktide fall into the latter category

of random dipshit demon summoned from the warp

[slate wave]

Warhammer powerscaling is way too much of a guessing game at times. Sometimes a daemonhost is crazy powerful because the Psyker is incredibly powerful. Or its a greater daemon who possessed a crap Psyker and turned him into a demi-god.

But mostly when a crap daemon gets a crap psyker. You can just put a good ole bolter round in him and the problem is sorted

[ocean idol]

Also any human killing an ogryn 1v1 is already load of bull

we slaughter them by dozens

[void dragon]

But you can't deny that cooking 6 reapers with a single flamethrower mag isn't cool

[slate wave]

Ogryn are dumb, yes stronger than a SM, but remember a SM is faster, smarter, and wiser.

You can tell an Ogryn a grenade is food and he’ll eat it

[ocean idol]

I can and i will just to spite you

[void dragon]

Me Krak sandwiches are proof (they tasty )

[slate wave]

Like I can see a squad of guardsmen killing several Ogryn because the Ogryn aren’t smart enough to plan.

Hell it’s a miracle that the Ogryn in game can even form a full coherent sentence.

[void dragon]

It's constantly hinted that our ogryns are genius or have implants to make them smarter than the average bear

[slate wave]

Most Ogryn barely follow basic orders correctly, their is a lore instance where an Ogryn was give a medal because he could count to 4 and knew his name

[slate wave]

Oh they are BONE heads

Its an implant to make them smarter

[surreal rune]

shoutout to our ogryns regularly understanding and replicating 5 or 6 syllable words

i dont even think the bully has an implant

[ocean idol]

you really underestimate how resilient and dangerous ogryns are

[void dragon]

Bodyguard might be natural Ge-nei-us

[slate wave]

Lowkey sometimes those implants are bombs, would have been so funny if there was a blitz to make our Ogryn explode

[void dragon]

They are just a little bulletproof, not impervious to gunfire

[surreal rune]

brawler regularly talks about his implant malfunctioning and that it smells burnt

[void dragon]

Weaponize the bonehead chip cooking the ogryn brain sounds crazy

In a good way

[slate wave]

No they are resilient and strong don’t get me wrong but they are as smart as a bag of hammers and as sharp as a broken crayon. A basic trap or I don’t know a clip of targeted Bolter fire will kill a few Ogryn.

Yes you are fighting a gorilla but the gorilla isn’t aware he is alive

They make great soldiers because they are a wall of meat who can’t ask questions

[slate wave]

Make it do controlled shocks to make our Ogryn go berserk and 1v1 the plague Ogryn

Anyways where is my lore accurate Catachan knife FS???

[ocean idol]

ffs, again, you are talking about MULTIPLE PEOPEL vs 1 ogryn

i did not say shit ab otu scenario like that

i said 1v1

and we kill them like 4v12

also why you assume ogryn just stares while guardsmen kill him

[void dragon]

More like 5v1000 (rock counts too)

[ocean idol]

ogryuns often have heavy ranged weaponry

So chances are he will start shooting right away

and kill more than half of your squad before you even start hurting him

[surreal rune]

sounds like the butcher's nails with more steps

[void dragon]

Why measure realistic standards on a game like horde shooter where we clearly are given more power than the average guardsmen? If the plot demands our ogryn tanks a plasma shot where theirs don't because the Emperor protects

[ocean idol]

That's the fuckn point

https://tenor.com/view/rare-reeeeee-dank-meme-triggered-gif-24062717

[crisp oak]

got an 8/10 death

rounded a corner into silenmt mutie and 10 silent poxbursters

died in under a second

[slate wave]

Okay the point still stands, we have weaponry admech (repaired) blessed weapons verse the garbage the traitors stole or cobbled together. Against an Ogryn told to point and shot in a hive. Again we are winning that fight in a 1v1.

A guard is more mobile than an Ogryn with a stubber, has access to ordinance. And can take more angles and positions. In game we see Reapers even struggle to reload the Stubber. That Ogryn isn’t thinking tactics or plans he’s standing there shooting.

A well placed burst of bolter fire or a krak will wound the Ogryn opening it up for a kill.

Regardless he’s not winning against a thinking man who isn’t gonna charge into melee range.

Even then a Crusher is big fucked if he thinks I’ll walk up to this guy who is tagging me from high ground

[surreal rune]

the moebian sixth knows how to use ogryns to their advantage but

m ogryns are still incompetent

and the moebian sixth, even before their defection, were stuck short on supplies

there was a thread of steam reviewing the moebian sixth

ill find it

or rather, fatshark forum

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/overview-of-the-moebian-6th-equipment-and-armament/90471

[slate wave]

Hell we even give our Ogryns blunt instruments of war. All there weapons are fairly ease of use. Plus being BONE’ed gives our Big Guys a huge leg up on the competition.

Our Ogryns are sophisticated. The Moebians are apes.

[fair shale]

Yk only one og is a bone head right

[surreal rune]

the moebians made due with what they could scavenge

but that doesnt compare to an inquisitorial warband

[slate wave]

Doesn’t seem to matter when all the personalities are smarter than the average bear, when it comes to Ogryn standards and at the end of the day we got actual equipment and the backing of the Admech.

While the heretics out here scavenging for goods

[fair shale]

Nah they're defo smarter than he average og

[cinder wagon]

What are the major differences between a knife and a tactical axe?

[fair shale]

He average og cannot reload

[slate wave]

Knife is targeted DPS, aim for weakpoints.

The Axe is high sustain DPS, keep swinging

[cinder wagon]

What do you mean by high sustain DPS?

[slate wave]

Literally keep swinging the axe and you will melt a target in a couple hits. While the Knife you need to be more precise on where you stab and who you stab

[cinder wagon]

So what are the advantages of the knife?

[narrow frost]

Knife is faster move speed with higher adms to carapace and a heavier focus on single target. Tactical axe has higher all round stagger and faster attack speed plus is build properly is a horde shredder, higher then knife by far. Weakness is the weaker then knife damage to Carapace but it doesn't lack in that department. It just needs crits to deal decent damage to carapace

[cinder wagon]

Alright then, thank you

[slate wave]

The Knife is just for pin-point kills on Carapace targets. For example if they close the gap poke them and be done

Plus I think the knife looks cooler

[cinder wagon]

Oh for sure lol

[slate wave]

But the axe is good and a great service weapon

[cinder wagon]

I run it with uncanny strike and that blessing that gives you more damage on weakpot hits with bleed stacks and it seems to do the job well

[slate wave]

Yeah that’s about it, personally I run the Knife with a Las Pistol for a dumb crit set up for infinite ammo and if something closes the gap brain them with the knife and go back to shooting

[fast shale]

I did a few tweaks in the upper area of the tree, I'm loving the build rn tbh

[fair shale]

Question, do you think tac axe needs rending strikes on vet?

[slate wave]

I put rending on everything when possible to be honest, so in my heavily bias opinion…yes

but I am also a die hard chainsword enjoyer

And will die on the hill that every who say the rev up is bad is objectively wrong

[fair shale]

Tbh I just steal Ainz builds sometimes and their tac axe vet has rending strikes but no keystone and I wanna pick their brain

[slate wave]

That sounds like my Krieg build, all in on shovel and helbore with no keystone

[tall torrent]

tac axe has better horde clear & stagger, knife has much higher single target dps

[narrow frost]

not really

I dont take rending strikes for anything but VA

its such a small number

vet has alot of competitive points

[fair shale]

Alright, I dropped it for uhhh, WS tbh

Nah I agree

And most of em are in right side tree lol

[cinder wagon]

Sounds simple enough yes

[faint beacon]

Admittedly really shouldn't be taking Rending Strikes unless you're rocking Vigils mainly cause that noticeably bumps up their damage

If I could pass on it I would

but im Usually running Vigils + Tac Axe

[fair shale]

That makes sense now

Its a Vig Tac Axe build

[faint beacon]

Been my go too build even before the buffs

[fair shale]

I just wanted to play around with it

I dont think I like Vig more than CS rn

But mine is also bad atm and needs mastery

[hollow ibex]

i can't stand

how vigils are completely utterly dependant on finesse

and body shots basically just tickle enemies

[fair shale]

I kinda dont like it being a burst

I might like the single shot more

[hollow ibex]

it really is famine or feast with vigils

[fair shale]

But unless recoil becomes nonexistent with the burst I'm not gonna like this thing tbh

[hollow ibex]

i like the colum most for consistency personally

[fair shale]

Ive been using the 3rd

Whichever is the m16

[hollow ibex]

yeah colum

[fair shale]

Yeah mines recoil is still ass

So it simply feels bad to use

[hollow ibex]

having ES helps a lot

there's always deadshot too

but yeah i vastly prefer combat shotties

i hope HIVe ganger gets combat shotties

/DB

[fair shale]

I religiously run ES tbh

By far my favorite vet skill

[hybrid plover]

Not really. Not that it doesn't help but it mostly helps for crushers really.

That being said, you could also run shred instead of bromentum if you really think they're that much of a problem. Vet's sauced damage means you don't really need bromentum for decent horde clear nowadays.

[fair shale]

Tbh I stole Ainz build to play around with and I'm learning the rending was for the Vigilant

Not the tac axe

[silver patrol]

now i didn't check, but surely the tac axe doesn't have great carapace penetration, so rending strikes still helps a lot

[hollow ibex]

rending on taxe is basically only for carapace

rending on vigil is for carapace and flak

[fair shale]

So I defo want the rending if I'm gonna run around in havoc

Where Carapace spam is prevelang

[tall torrent]

noe

[fair shale]

For havoc?

[tall torrent]

can't afford too

[fair shale]

Ig thats fair

It feels like it comes down to dropping a keystone or an armor node for rending

You defo want tinkerer(awful, I want that auto kill override on whatever it hits sans bosses)

Tbh I did not get the vet tree complaints post rework but playing around with it again, yeah

The middle sections is a points vacuum I wish I could skip

The nade perks being horizontal means you can't even path with em properly if you want more than one

Tldr tree too long

[tall torrent]

I'm vindicated

[hollow ibex]

you will take improv/serrated and you will enjoy it

[silver patrol]

at least serrated isn't so bad

right?

[hollow ibex]

it's just build-dependant when such talents should be optional because they're... build-dependant

[faint beacon]

Im mixed on it also but like

its WAY better than it was previously

and im contempt with this for sometime

[tall torrent]

lol

[fair shale]

Its better but it still isn't great

[tall torrent]

typo

[fair shale]

This choice pisses me off

I like both of those talents too

[hollow ibex]

just in typical FS fashion it's a half-assed rework because it's for vet

[faint beacon]

I mean its clearly rushed in certain areas

but it'll do for now

praying they eventually touch up the other areas

[hollow ibex]

yeah my hope is that they actually complete the fucking rework in december

instead of just keeping this half-assed

in the time that psyker got two full reworks

vet gets one half-assed one

standard FS priorities

[tall torrent]

937k total dmg (using krak with power sword so all condition dmg is from serrated)
9.38k bleed dmg total

[silver patrol]

damn it's so good

[tall torrent]

basically 1% of my dmg is from serrated

[hollow ibex]

i'm sure the bleed finished off a lot of enemies that you weren't about to imminently kill.... right??

[tall torrent]

I could count 1 single instance of it

[fresh spire]

Is 75% krak damage useful in havoc? I can’t see why, maybe useful for pink?

[silver patrol]

prob rotten armor

and other such sillities

[hollow ibex]

if you want crusher one-shot

then yes

[tall torrent]

I actually have the vod for this game

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/15342431723317073031/7CD4F4003561EF4162D382263B25A0D293833E74/

this was the only instance I saw serrated kill smth

[hollow ibex]

massive stonks

[tall torrent]

basically only way for serrated to do anything notable is to have uncanny and/or mercy/flesh tearer

[pseudo fiber]

That's value that

[hollow ibex]

so knife, shovel....

err

taxe maybe?

[burnt pelican]

Also kinda mandatory for rituals as u can kill daemonhosts with them

[tall torrent]

and team synergy with og/z

since og can apply bleed too and gains DR from enemies bleeding

and z gets +crit chance from bleed

[burnt pelican]

Well u mostly take it for the stagger of the dh but still more boss dmg very good

[tall torrent]

as an actual dmg talent for vet, serrated is impeccably bad in majority of cases

[burnt pelican]

Is that the bleed one?

[hollow ibex]

yeh

[tall torrent]

yea melee hit apply 2 bleed

[burnt pelican]

Its ass for everything outside bosses

On bosses its pretty good tbh

[frosty hatch]

how bro looks at me after I steal another one of his french fries

[burnt pelican]

I only take it for carpace combat knife build cuz its dependent on it

[tall torrent]

nah it's also just ass

[hollow ibex]

the only real synergies serrated have i can think of are for knife and shovel

[tall torrent]

without uncanny and/or mercy/flesh tearer, it's just bad

[burnt pelican]

Bleed with unyielding on 16 stacks is very good on bosses

I take it on some builds where i have 0 boss dmg

And u keep it on 16 by just hitting them

I mean obviously if u have boss killers in ur team dot is useless

Remember pub havoc 40 doesnt exist it cant hurt u

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/452219191580295168/1392348183438557306/freeze-2.gif

[slate wave]

Nah shovel supremacy…unless Chain sword

[tall torrent]

it's not remotely as good as just having good boss dmg melee in the first place

[burnt pelican]

Yeah like i said dot useless there but pub havoc is a thing

Dont get it in 9 out of 10 cases

And when u do, ask urself why

[cinder wagon]

Well I take it so I can activate the blessing for the knife that gives me 60% more damage against bleeding enemies on weak spot hit

[burnt pelican]

Like i love combat knife for carpace but its 1 extra talent to do the same thing rapier does

With less reach and horde clear

[cinder wagon]

A rapier is not the weapon of a true guardsman

[burnt pelican]

Plus u struggle with ragers a lot with knife

1 is fine 3+ ur cooked

[cinder wagon]

Kid named shredder grenade

I actually had that happen earlier today

But instead of 3 ragers it was like, 8

[calm shard]

tbh flesh tearer is more damage than that gives you

[burnt pelican]

Yeah but again if u use rapier ud keep those nades, I dont like rapier but it is the best option

[cinder wagon]

Oh really

[burnt pelican]

I run the max dodge one

[cinder wagon]

The rapier has a parry yes?

[calm shard]

yeah

[burnt pelican]

Yeah cheat button xD

[calm shard]

it's okay

[cinder wagon]

Oh yeah that automatically makes it busted against ragers lol

[burnt pelican]

I think u can also parry crushers tho havent tested in actual havoc

[tall torrent]

can

[cinder wagon]

Whaaat

Same energy as parrying a carnifex in SM2

[burnt pelican]

Yeah u can parry oh its stupid

Defy physics

[tall torrent]

not quite
it's not a high cleave atk, DS still isn't good vs high density

and DS's parry atk has less block frames than DC sword's parry atk

[burnt pelican]

Well it keeps u alive thats for certain

[cinder wagon]

Ah well

[tall torrent]

so u can get hit as u do the parry atk

[burnt pelican]

I love ds cuz its super good with 0 talents

U can kill just about everything with full gun build

I wish combat knife didnt need the serrated talent to work

Eh

[thorn lark]

Oo

[austere mica]

Interesting opinion

[burnt pelican]

It does work without it just yk

[calm shard]

it has been run without it on psyker, zealot, and veteran themselves forever

[cinder wagon]

Welp according to @calm shard you don't actually need it

[calm shard]

It used to be the meta for the weapon on veteran to nt bother running serrated

and it was still a good weapon

[burnt pelican]

R u talking about the bleed crit blessing?

Its really good yeah

[cinder wagon]

But to be honest I just saw that +60% damage and thought why would you NOT take that

[calm shard]

serrated is the bleed talent on the skill tree

2 stacks of bleed on hit

[burnt pelican]

But that build isnt for single target

[calm shard]

flesh tearer is the blessing that's 8 stacks of bleed on crit

which is a lotta damage

[burnt pelican]

Yeah u mentioned that its good without it and I asked if ur refering to the bleed blessing build

[cinder wagon]

Since you're attacking just 1 enemy, wouldn't it be better to just hit them harder instead of bleeding them?

[burnt pelican]

The single target one kinda needs it

[calm shard]

sure usually but knife has uncanny and 10 stacks of bleed is immediately 300 damage per tick on most enemies

[burnt pelican]

U either run aoe mark with bleed on crit or single target mark with serrated

[calm shard]

which is more damage than +60% weakspot will give you

[cinder wagon]

Mmmm maybe

[burnt pelican]

I mean sure i could test that

[cinder wagon]

I'll check it out in the meat grinder tomorrow

[burnt pelican]

Ppbl 2 to 3 more hits to kill id assume

[hybrid plover]

If you're talking mercy killer, its not 60% damage.

It's way less than that actually.

[cinder wagon]

Why is that?

[thorn lark]

it's 60% wp dmg right?

[cinder wagon]

Yeah

[thorn lark]

well, the wp dmg part is a fraction of the total dmg

so a fraction of a fraction is not as good as a constant dot with uncanny

[hybrid plover]

#veteran-class message

Da more u no

[cinder wagon]

Wait, so you're trying to say that when you hit a weakpoint, you deal normal damage + weakspot damage, and mercy killer only buffs that weakspot damage part?

[hybrid plover]

Yes.

[cinder wagon]

...oh

Well that's amazing to know lol

Thanks guys

[thorn lark]

[burnt pelican]

Good stuff

Fatshark good at explaining things as usual

Its like they are putting descriptions assuming everyone knows how the game is coded

[hollow ibex]

that's what happens when you delegate to interns

[burnt pelican]

For example aoe spearhead boltgun doesnt proc the stacks on kill blessing

Same with puncture only works on direct hits

[hybrid plover]

Hence why flesh tearer despite spending redundant, is better than mercy with serrated.

[burnt pelican]

Ive seen puncture builds for aoe spearhead and it makes me sad cuz they dont know

Yeah ur right

[hybrid plover]

It's possibly a little too good bring able to get 10 stacks of bleed on a crit if I'll be honest.

[silver patrol]

let them dream

[sonic kayak]

I'll tear your flesh

[hybrid plover]

Along with every hit doing bleed so there's no downtime for the stacks to decay even if you don't have reciprocity stacks.

[burnt pelican]

Reciprocity is what again?

I forgot

[distant plaza]

crit chance on dodge

[burnt pelican]

Oh

[fair shale]

Possibly my single favorite vet tree perk ngl

[burnt pelican]

I always wondered if rec is good on falchion or if ult dmg is better

Id assume reciprocity js better

[tall torrent]

Always reciprocity