3/6 push attacks have 6.5 cleave
#veteran-class
charred salmon
How much cleave is a lot of cleave
charred salmon
I usually use relic blade on zealot so I'm used to mowing through dudes
charred salmon
So would power sword be similar for veteran
charred salmon
I don't like fast attack speed unless the damage is just really really good
Or else it feels like I'm butter knifing
tame lodge
So would power sword be similar for veteran
Power Sword doesn't have a heat bar
charred salmon
That sounds pretty decenet then
tame lodge
Which means that you get to have stronger bonuses
charred salmon
Nice
tame lodge
With the tradeoff is that you have to activate every couple swings
With Power Cycler blessing, every 3 swings
tame lodge
44 is high
Then Sunder blessing makes Psword act like ~44 cleave
willow prairie
it's literally the best melee in the game
void dragon
very dangerous question: should the Power sword be nerfed along with the Dueling swords?
distant plaza
nerfed into a heat bar maybe
tame lodge
But we have falchion for that
grand perch
i dont think anyone could argue well that psword should remain as it is
sudden cedar
Isn't the consensus that the duelling sword itself is not the problem, but Uncanny Strike is?
grand perch
uncanny is a stupid blessing but thats not what makes DS a problem. if it was, shovel would be just as OP
sudden cedar
True enough
surreal rune
uncanny and ds is stupid
grand perch
its the combination of an easy anti armor option with the mobility and thus survivability of a light weapon
the lack of horde clear isnt enough of a downside
tame lodge
It overrides dodges so they start with 2.75m, definitely made for psykers and their base 2m dodges
They could make that override Psyker exclusive
Because DS also has a stronger psyker exclusive parry
charred salmon
Is the gun ability for veteran actually good? The stun and toughness one seems really good but more fun damage is like meh
surreal rune
its fun but provides less survivability for yourself and your team than shout
definitely very effective though
one can keep it active in combat much of the time
and its cooldown is very short so one may activate it as needed
hollow ibex
Is the gun ability for veteran actually good? The stun and toughness one seems r...
very strong right now
it's not as braindead as shout
but very strong
also unironically good for melee vets too 
surreal rune
m yes its even stronger now
although i would say its harder to spread the points around and get the talents one needs
charred salmon
So basically like on a boss just pop ability and start spraying bullets at the weak spot?
surreal rune
that works
hollow ibex
you should just be constantly popping the ability
surreal rune
but it can also kills hordes of elites at ranged
hollow ibex
like all the time
orchid hemlock
https://tenor.com/view/jack-tanamen-gecky-incorporeal-gif-21102682
Weebs when they read high school harem manga:
hollow ibex
because you can take nodes to increase the lenght of the activation
surreal rune
or elites in general
charred salmon
My problem with veteran and maybe the game in general is like when should I use gun vs melee
Like I just never use my gun and I feel like I should
void dragon
https://tenor.com/view/jack-tanamen-gecky-incorporeal-gif-21102682
dont say it would happen, from history we know it will not, but if it should
and if so, how?
charred salmon
So it's basically just a short cool down damage buff for my gun?
That's what it's for
tame lodge
Reduces spread
Reduces recoil
Increases impact
Doesn't break out of aiming when tg breaks
surreal rune
Like I just never use my gun and I feel like I should
if you dont have a frontliner or crowd control type player to control enemies, you should be more cautious when using ranged
tame lodge
Like, it's a lot of ranged buffs
hollow ibex
Like I just never use my gun and I feel like I should
generally you use it to shoot specialists or elites when you can't melee them
void dragon
if you dont have a frontliner or crowd control type player to control enemies, y...
and if you arent protecting the designated gunner of the team dont cry when you are in a sea of fire due flamers/bombers
charred salmon
Does the 25% damage stack with the 25% weakspot damage? And is there any skills that make it give toughness or any buff to teammates or no. The extra perks for it that just do outlines on enemies seems kinda pointless
tame lodge
Not to mention the insta swap
charred salmon
Does the outline do anything
Maybe I should do like single shot las gun sniper build to pick of elites or something. Cause with like a recon or auto gun I just end up running around shooting whatever
tame lodge
Does the outline do anything
Wall hacks
surreal rune
if you dont have a frontliner or crowd control type player to control enemies, y...
when they are doing their job and allowing you to do your job, you should be sniping high-priority targets
such as elites, specialists, and ranged enemies
those enemies are also marked by executioner stance
you should be attentive though-- melee enemies or specialists may spawn and sneak up behind sometime
especially if youre too far away from your other teammates
surreal rune
you should be attentive though-- melee enemies or specialists may spawn and snea...
usually they have sound cues and such
the game also plays a sound effect when an enemy is about to hit you from beyond your peripheral, from behind or such
that is your cue to dodge and likely snipe or switch to melee to kill the threat
calm shard
Fucking infinite cleave is high
true
calm shard
Does the 25% damage stack with the 25% weakspot damage? And is there any skills ...
Born Leader gives your dopes in coherency 20% of all toughness you regenerate
which with Exe is a lot
calm shard
Counterfire is a solid upgrade simply because it gives exe effectively infinite duration during combat
just stabbing a basic ranged enemy isn't a hard ask, or shooting them
and it keeps that precious toughness regen going
calm shard
[Tox Bomber voice] I only wish to spread the truth
proof that infinite cleave is a lot of cleave
tame lodge
Need a video like that but with new mauler HP
tame lodge
PERFECT!
calm shard
you can see skirmisher, exploit weakness, etc. active on the buff bar
void dragon
which with Exe is a ***lot***
has someone figured the best exe stance build to become a living toughness battery?
calm shard
and the mauler at the back obviously has 3700 HP total
calm shard
has someone figured the best exe stance build to become a living toughness batte...
I dunno I'd guess Helbore IV gaming
just shoot literally everything
Laspistol would be my next guess
tame lodge
Yeah someone asked if the DB became doodoo with the scab buffs
And I theorized that maybe maulers could be a problem
wheat gate
Is the machine pistol bad?
calm shard
No because it conveniently coincided with more damage buffs on the tree
tame lodge
But they still couldn't stop manstopper if you hit their bodies
calm shard
So it still cripples or outright kills any mauler that you happen to dumpster with a crit
calm shard
Is the machine pistol bad?
It's good for melee builds
I wouldn't really build for it on a gun focused build
olive halo
https://fximgur.com/a/KXTEpmY
ayo what
calm shard
It has a lot of utility
olive halo
db is that good?
olive halo
Ive never seen a db one shot a mauler before, thats news to me
much less a gazillion maulers
tame lodge
If not the best then definitely up there still
olive halo
did bro feed fentshot into that gun gah damn
calm shard
Ive never seen a db one shot a mauler before, thats news to me
yeah the alt fire that shoots both barrels can one shot maulers out to ~10 meters
if it doesn't outright kill them it's going to do about 2/3 of their health
Manstopper+Flechette
Manstopper is literally infinite cleave btw
wheat gate
I remember one video on yt
This guy killed like a group of crushers
Just because of cleave
With crits
calm shard
seriously whacko gun and vet is by far the best user of it
guaranteed ranged crit every 3 melee kills
calm shard
with a blessing that makes crits have infinite cleave, and bleed
and a ton of talents that synergize with quick swapping between melee/ranged
turbid ibex
WS is prob overall the best vet keystone rn
the keystone itself is great and the pathing has a bunch of really strong talents
mmf can also be really good for a lot of weapons that are good at headshots but the pathing makes it not as good
focus target is also good but like
spark helm
:^)
Information is king. Exestance + focus target gaming.
But yeah, it's the least dynamic keystone by miles.
narrow widget
WS is prob overall the best vet keystone rn
we've known about this since forever 
tender pasture
Rashad combat axe, tac axe, even chainaxe
hollow ibex
What melee weapon would you use for melee veteran
power sword is the strongest, but kinda jank
junior topaz
What melee weapon would you use for melee veteran
combat knife seems to be a go-to, but personally i use hellbore as my melee weapon
tender pasture
Power Sword is stronk but the loop is hideously boring
Knife and dueling sword are evergreen
tender pasture
Been really liking the DS5
hollow ibex
psword forces you to be less reliant on dodges
so you have to play well to make good use of it
tender pasture
Still strong as hell but less bullshit than the DS4
And the dodge distance is memetastic especially on WS Vet
wheat gate
I dont ever use dueling swords
tender pasture
psword forces you to be less reliant on dodges
Yeah big issue with PS in general is just that it's kinda rough to use on the back foot
Good innate block cost reduction though
hollow ibex
Good innate block cost reduction though
apparently this is not a thing
tender pasture
i like melee weapons that have horde clear
I pair DS with the double barrel or a Zarona shotgun
mortal aspen
Taxe gang
tender pasture
apparently this is not a thing
Not any more? I swear it was
mortal aspen
represent
hollow ibex
Not any more? I swear it was
yeah @tall torrent had tested iirc
instead there's a sprint stam reduction on the mk6 iirc
that mk3 doesn't get apparently?
hexed crystal
how am I supposed to use the double-barrel shotgun ? it's the only weapon I've tried that didn't click with me
hybrid plover
how am I supposed to use the double-barrel shotgun ? it's the only weapon I've t...
Weapon specialist
Particularly with always prepared
wheat gate
how am I supposed to use the double-barrel shotgun ? it's the only weapon I've t...
A crowd of enemies appear in front of you, shotgunners, maniacs
You pull out DB and evaporate them all
Mutant or dog, pull out the DB
It is a thing you quickly pull out like revolver
hexed crystal
I can't make it work like the revolver or the combat shotgun for some reason, feels like it has absolutely no range and barely goes through anything. Not sure what I'm doing wrong really
narrow frost
range?
watch this
yes, it wont compare to revolver in damge single target
but that is opposite to its main purpose
close range mixed horde clear
with how vet is now, you can out damage psykers with how much clear you have
charred salmon
Born Leader gives your dopes in coherency 20% of all toughness you regenerate
That sounds pretty good
viscid sparrow
Btw, I have discovered a decent and/or fun WS build idea for auric: mk1 shovel, non-vraks iag (currently liking the columnus, even tho its the worst one), stealth or VoC (am still tryna decide), and kraks.
CIAG’s slow-ish firerate is fixed by WS (agri would be the same, but with even less ammo so I haven’t dared to try it out yet in an actual game), and mk1 shovel lightspam is decent at singletarget, thanks to Uncanny + Decimator, while also having better horde clear than mk3…
charred salmon
Are the veteran wall hacks actually useful though? Doesn't really seem worth the points
narrow frost
stance is situational
if thats what you are talking about
it will help you see targets to hit with your ranged weapon
mortal aspen
wallhacks are always nice for me, because I can't see shit in this game
but I wish targets behind walls had different coloring
narrow frost
maintaining its buffs
viscid sparrow
but I wish targets behind walls had different coloring
I have this same problem with psyker DD targets in fog/darkness modifiers…
charred salmon
Should I use all the wallahcks or just like the one for elites
Then I'd be able to pick them off easier I guess
hybrid plover
Should I use all the wallahcks or just like the one for elites
You can't use both
charred salmon
Oh I didn't know that I thought you couldnt get all
charred salmon
Yeah I guess so but they're already easy to see lol
I'll probably try out the one for elites and see how that works
hybrid plover
You'd be surprised how often a reaper squad can catch you off guard.
But as far as I can tell
Wait elites one?
Do you mean the human gunners one?
Because it already marks elites.
There's a subnode that marks targets for teammates and another that marks regular gunman too.
charred salmon
The one for elites and specialist enemies
mortal aspen
Exe stance marks elites and specialists by default
charred salmon
So what's the perk for lol
mortal aspen
they're all pretty self-explanatory
spark helm
I prefer counter-fire because I have more games where people don't address shooters proactively. It was also a free button for grenade generation and cdr on coherency bonuses.
The extension from the ogryn kills is nice but it's genuinely whatever to me because without it, you can very easily maintain prolonged periods of it. If you're a focus tsrget enthusiast you can make up for the ogryn one if you really care that much.
At higher levels, and definitely from what I've now seen in havoc footage, grunt shooters can end up being outnumbered by comparison to specialists and elites. So the game kind of scales it up for you.
mortal aspen
Counter fire marks the little normie shooter enemies too
non-elites
they are arguably more dangerous than the elite gunners in havoc
charred salmon
Don't elite kills trigger some affects tho I feel like they're the priority kill
mortal aspen
Enhanced Target Priority shares the wallhacks with the team
spark helm
Do ally kills from that count toward extensions?
mortal aspen
no
mortal aspen
but I think it was nice for the event, to give your whole team perma wallhacks
now probably not worth it
spark helm
Don't elite kills trigger some affects tho I feel like they're the priority kill
So, I'd say it's down to your preferences and how regularly you actually sus out engagements to find vips. Grunt shooters and shooters in general are dangerous, but they're also some of the most viable targets for lasguns for example. If you really just know your way around fights, you don't necessarily need counter-fire but I like it for the sheer abundance.
And i like it as a safety net for maintaining the benefits of exestance if enough specialists and elites get popped before I do anything. It's usually kn the rarer side but my experience isn't yours. Counter-fire is nice as a recovery sort of option to mitigate killstreak droughts effecting your dps, nade gen, cooldowns, passive toughness regen, etc.
mortal aspen
wait
spark helm
I recommend it if your intent with a build and weapon setup using it should consider some of the consequences of encouraging yourself to headshot everything. If I was running a revolver, I'll probably take ogryn over counter-fire because a revolver doesn't have the ammo reserves to be able to make use of counter-fire without staggering itself out. You can use melee kills on highlighted targets of course, but in my experience the nature of the gun is at odds with the potential of that choice.
mortal aspen
I don't think shooters extend Exe stance even with the subnode, or do they?
spark helm
Yes they do
mortal aspen
lapis osprey
Hey, what perks for dealing with H40 crushers with power sword? I have carapace and brutal momentum but they are still hard to kill
spark helm
Idr if the time difference is huge by comparison but it adds up anyway and refreshes.
Everything with a gun yhat isn't your teammate on top of their existence as specialists and human-sized elites are marked
So you can see where the value comes in hard because iirc even melee kills count.
spark helm
It's extremely compatible with precision weapons with high ammo reserves and magazines. Counter-fire alone puts in a lot of work to make things like infantry lasguns, laspistols, vigilant autoguns, helbores, etc. a solid place as tools that excel at suppressing shooters by making oneself a shooter.
hybrid plover
Exe stance double barrel go boom
spark helm
The main issue I'd say with it even after these amazing quality of life changes it and the left side for veteran got is that it's still one of those builds that by design pushes players to push themselves because it's not as loudly efficient compared to some of the best options in the game. It's still extremely effective and I personally have made missions I've loaded into totally turn around because of it.
Another issue is just how certain ranged options will have too much demanded of them that they can't keep up with. Like for example, revolvers. while they're definitely good with exestance, they can be easily encouraged into exhaustion with counter-fire. It simply will never have the ammo reserves of an infantry lasgun and I wouldn't know how much I'd be willing to work with to sacrifice certain nodes or just pivot aspects of my build to juice up another thing its weaker at. Or just giving it some placeholder niceties because I got all the damage I really need. Much better to slot the anti-ogryn one by comparison or maybe evne make room with taking something else if you really want to do it.
Or do what I mentioned before with synergy with focus target to just turn yourself into a sentry. I fucking love those builds since you're still gonna have to engage with your own kit due to the wanting to have that uptime on exestance. Even if it's an ogryn-class and above enemy, you're still always doing the core thing of highlighting enemies and making them eat shit for it. Witch Hunter legacy in the 41st millenium. You'll usually have enough points that you can finesse if you don't want to go with mmf and just get the sauce from the final tier of the middle tree. It's just free damage. Maybe boring unless you got enough to maybe dip into the right side or just go right after taking counter-fire but you get the point I think.
Exestance always been one of those really funny things that vet has that lets their more niche playstyles shine pretty well in my experience but the recent patch just juiced all of that to some really good fun builds. Maybe not every single thing ends up in havoc but it really doesn't need to because it's just that fun straight up.
hybrid plover
Hey, what perks for dealing with H40 crushers with power sword? I have carapace ...
Sunder for carapace cleave
Make sure you're using push stab
The arbitrator havoc curse strikes once again.....
hybrid plover
I was playing a h40 in clandestium gloriana
Arbitrator rushes to jump down at the beginning and pushes far enough to trigger a spawn that snowballs the entire game with a boss spawn and horde that separates him from us and also gets everyone sandwiched
I just see a castigator arby at this point and sigh because its almost a trope at this point that they're going to do something dumb
It's the first one I've even played with in a while and it reminded me why I usually don't see them in parties anymore
hot whale
Fellas is the braced autogun viable in havoc/auric? I really wanna rock it
faint beacon
I think it’s hilarious I’ve conditioned myself to do so much better on Vet especially now in H40 vs any other classes
Aside from psyker cause it’s actually baby mode
fair shale
Im ngl im starting to view inferno psykers like I view w+m1 pyros
faint beacon
I mean they are
They’ve become the new Smyker
The moment a carapace horde shows up and they fold immediately
hot whale
The moment a carapace horde shows up and they fold immediately
I dunno man
Uncanny isn’t that hard to keep active with soul blaze stacks
hexed vale
What melee + ranged combos work well with weapon spec? Besides revolver ig
spark helm
Tons of w+m1 anyway
spark helm
What melee + ranged combos work well with weapon spec? Besides revolver ig
Just about anything and p.sword. shotguns and Rashad are fun. Tactical axe fits easily into ws builds with enough points for more right tree options.
hexed vale
How should I run it? I'm guessing it's worth it to fire off a shot into a horde every so often to refresh the melee buff?
viscid sparrow
Just about anything and p.sword. shotguns and Rashad are fun. Tactical axe fits ...
what about shovels? I have been enjoying mk1 (aka, non-foldable) quite a bit with WS...
although, the only reason I use WS with it is for the ranged effects, because that part makes Columnus/Agri iag actually decent thanks to the firerate increase imo
hollow ibex
shovel is fine
hexed vale
The folding variants are probably better, but if you don't need the extra single-target option then non-folding should be fine as well
faint beacon
Use chain weapons at that point
The Mk1 is the best bet cause it can actually stagger anything aside of bosses
azure narwhal
The moment a carapace horde shows up and they fold immediately
I cast
jaunty sphinx
The average flame staff psyker isn't smart enough to use that
hexed vale
They get "Penetration of the Soul" too, though. That just gives them 20% Rending just for having high Peril
azure narwhal
The average flame staff psyker isn't smart enough to use that
fair tbh
but it's stupidly simple
flame the horde of crushers
proc uncanny
you can do it quick using force sword special
4 stacks on special
and profit
300+ flame DoTs on crushers
charred salmon
Is stealth better for veteran or zealot
jaunty sphinx
I'd say zealot just because of the sheer damage
sharp epoch
Is stealth better for veteran or zealot
stealth on vet is really bad and was nerfed last patch indirectly
surreal rune
What melee + ranged combos work well with weapon spec? Besides revolver ig
most weapons work. two options i find that benefit the most are the power sword and bolt pistol--they also work well together
foggy rune
stealth on vet is really bad and was nerfed last patch indirectly
Does it even get anything for damage?
surreal rune
Is stealth better for veteran or zealot
stealth vet is fun but i wouldnt recommend using it
sharp epoch
Does it even get anything for damage?
yes it gets a damage boost out of stealth like 30% for only 5 seconds
surreal rune
stealth zealot is good
but stealth in general is situational and can hurt teams if used improperly
sharp epoch
the main reason its bad is the 60 second cooldown for a shit abillity
surreal rune
bad players will dump enemy agro onto their teammates who aren't expecting it
viscid sparrow
the main reason its bad is the 60 second cooldown for a shit abillity
45 secs now
sharp epoch
Extra charge is basically mandatory
spark helm
The folding variants are probably better, but if you don't need the extra single...
I definitely don't know enough about those but I imagine what's already nice on veteran is worth narrowing blessings down.
My money would probably be on +maniacs/carapace and unyielding, maybe elites if the boss damage isn't worth investing in to just make it a really consistent elite delete button.
Not sure how far thrust would go but that's where my brain is at for a blessing. Headtaker is a common choice for weapons with particularly nice vanguard lights as an anchor blessing. I really wouldn't know. Ask around cuz I know I'm late on my reply.
hexed vale
Crazy VoC is 30 seconds but Infiltrate is 45
lucid pike
Best mission to do the "on overwatch" achievement on?
hollow ibex
Crazy VoC is 30 seconds but Infiltrate is 45
yeah it's pretty dumb
fair shale
Best mission to do the "on overwatch" achievement on?
Any of em
Youll eventually get it via skill
lucid pike
Youll eventually get it via skill
I try but Im getting nudged (not even grabbed) by poxhounds and muties
some random thing just keeps hitting me and ruining it
fair shale
Yeah, stop worrying about it
Ig technically a strike would be better cause they're shorter
eternal cove
Does the krak grenade one shot crushers on auric?
signal garden
It should on all difficulties, if not someone let me know so I can whine more about how everyone should be rolling shredder
serene bough
Does the krak grenade one shot crushers on auric?
Yes
eternal cove
peak
serene bough
I forget if you need tinkerer, I think not
eternal cove
thank
fair shale
I forget if you need tinkerer, I think not
Shouldn't for auric
I think you do for higher havocs tho
serene bough
Always bring tinkerer for havoc
lucid pike
Yeah, stop worrying about it
I wish it was just dont take any health damage and bump it up to heresy threat or higher
signal garden
Just because kraks are dogshit in sm2 doesn't mean fatshark should be taking notes
serene bough
Kraks are very good currently
signal garden
Yeah relative to what they were I'm sure
serene bough
I liked using them before buffs, but now theyre definitely a competitive option
lucid pike
I love kraks, the only non generic feeling grenade for veteran
signal garden
My problem is I think I'm good in 1v1
fair shale
I wish it was just dont take any *health* damage and bump it up to heresy threat...
Yeah, well, I wish I was a baller, I wish I was a little bit taller, and i wish I had a 64 impala
Cant always have what you wish for tho
mortal aspen
I wish it was just dont take any *health* damage and bump it up to heresy threat...
that's what it is
signal garden
So the shredder is infinitely more valuable and I question why vet needs a stupid bleed grenade when Arby's gets a real grenade
I say replace smoke bomb with "poison gas bomb"
lucid pike
get this man outta the kitchen
signal garden
Does zero FF, lingering damage in an area, or perpetual stagger if it was a riot control grenade
mortal aspen
all vet nades are great now
orchid hemlock
All Vet nades are probably the best nades in the game
Only exception is rock
signal garden
Smoke bomb Is the only blitz that does no damage and no stagger
orchid hemlock
Dam being able to nullify the most annoying and terrifying enemies in the game
And makes the twin boss into a 1v1
mortal aspen
bruh
signal garden
You know what nullifies a room full of shooters
orchid hemlock
Guys random question, which one do y'all prefer?
signal garden
Having them bleed horrifyingly
sharp epoch
All Vet nades are probably the best nades in the game
Only exception is rock <:...
bombs away and shock mine better
orchid hemlock
bombs away and shock mine better
I hate shock mines
lucid pike
Guys random question, which one do y'all prefer?
left one
orchid hemlock
Change my mind
signal garden
Agreed I hate them too
fair shale
Guys random question, which one do y'all prefer?
Whats the occasion?
signal garden
Because they're way too good
orchid hemlock
Whats the occasion?
Doesn't matter I am only getting one
fair shale
I prefer right because I think it can go with more styles of outfit
Sleeker, little more elegant
orchid hemlock
Because they're way too good
The reason why I hate them is because they don't do anything to bosses
signal garden
They don't need to. They're on the clas that can duel bosses easily
grand perch
Guys random question, which one do y'all prefer?
this is OFFENSIVE to me because it reminds me how CADIAS TIME IS UP
signal garden
So you just place them down, ignore everything , and go to town on a boss
orchid hemlock
They don't need to. They're on the clas that can duel bosses easily
Being able to CC bosses is very useful in breaking their animations
Like being able to stop the Burgle from puking everyone is the difference of a wipe in bad situations
signal garden
I was more thinking duelling a captain in havocs in a 2 sergeants one captain scenario
orchid hemlock
Also I want grenades that instantly CC what is in front of me
sharp epoch
The reason why I hate them is because they don't do anything to bosses
I'd argue that the main threat are the support units of the boss like the ragers and bulwarks and specialist, you can solo bosses easily
signal garden
You NEED to know when to block, and when it's time to do damage having stun nades to create space is a godsend
It forces a duel so shock mines are great if you trust in your own melee alills
Skills
orchid hemlock
Shock mine to me is only useful in situations where someone goes down or doing an objective
Because it's the only situation where you are sitting still
fair shale
Shock mine is very QoL with buffed rot armor crushers imo
signal garden
Brother anyone who's played Vermintide can tell you being able to duel a boss is a blessing
sharp epoch
They're good at singlehandedly stopping waves of armor running your team down
sharp epoch
But, if your playing arby as a discount mine thrower just swap to smite scrier's psyker it does way more damage and stuns 100% of the time
signal garden
All Im hearing is you haven't figured out how to combat bosses in melee so you somehow don't see the value in making space to cleanly duel them
Except this is on a clas that can melee the enemies it's smitingan
And if you somehow don't see that value in that we don't need to "change your mind" so much as you need a full on reboot and OS reinstall
orchid hemlock
Brother anyone who's played Vermintide can tell you being able to duel a boss is...
Brother I can put a boss in the corner and CC the front line
signal garden
Some people don't blockz, specially the dude with the combo sword swing
mortal aspen
i don't think anyone would argue shock mines are bad or useless
sharp epoch
i wonder how people kill captains without duelling them
its not a duel you just jump them and spam m1
spring rose
jump them, yall slurs at their face and london them
signal garden
its not a duel you just jump them and spam m1
So you're telling me this strategy works against the sergeant with the sword that does the combo
hollow ibex
jump them, yall slurs at their face and london them
sharp epoch
yes if you got the whole team walloping them they cant even stand up
signal garden
To be fair any weapon can do that in any diff because tean
But when you have to duel one of those guys in havocs it just isnt trueat
At which point there is an actual mechanically sound way to handle the boss other than "cheese to win"
spring rose
that's crazy
mortal aspen
you either lure them away or jump them
either way they aren't that scary
once you understand how they work
signal garden
And it annoys me that the Mechanics are important only in havocs, it sno wonder VT2 players think darktide is shit
spring rose
that's crazy bro
mortal aspen
spring rose
anyone paired weapon specialist with combat axe? let me tell you hwhat i enjoy that thang
meager echo
I think vt2 handle tank role better. Staggered enemies take more dmg.
Dt frontline is just unkillable dps.
spring rose
it's the sound effect and chopping heads that gets me
yeah
roles in darktide feels like it's who does more dmg in what way
elder vessel
But, if your playing arby as a discount mine thrower just swap to smite scrier's...
That aint arbitrator thats
spring rose
arby's
meager echo
One year ago, I would say vt2 is the better game.
but now DT is at least equal or even better than vt2. It's just different tatse.
red robin
Man
I miss vt2
Need to get that dopamine of playing huntsmen Kruber with longbow and headshot any elite I see
sharp epoch
i miss playing kerillian and shooting my teammates
hybrid plover
Smoke bomb Is the only blitz that does no damage and no stagger
Smoke does actually lightly stagger a good amount of enemies. Not ragers or ogryn types though.
willow prairie
I've been playing vt2 on the deck
hybrid plover
Smoke is basically a psyker bubble with a light stagger.
willow prairie
aiming suck shit but fine otherwise
red robin
Truth nuke
sudden cedar
signal garden
Oh well bugger me it's like how suppression sounds like a good idea
Except it doesn't suppress poxwalkers because the dead cany be suppressed
warm schooner
what?
signal garden
I've hurled plenty of psyker bolts at enemies and the only ones that don't get suppressed on a bolt tosser build are poxwalkers
Otherwise in theory a bolt psyker could suppress a room of shooters if they wanted
hollow ibex
never rely on suppression for anything lol
tall torrent
suppression only relevant for diving gunner backline
sharp epoch
I need that creature spawner mod
just keep in mind some attacks on there are undodgeable cause theres 0 latency there, while in actual games theyre easy to dodge
signal garden
Like you can run up to a reaper and smack it in. Its face and it's just going to shoot you
steel veldt
just keep in mind some attacks on there are undodgeable cause theres 0 latency t...
How that work
signal garden
But a few shots in its general direction and it's cowering
spring rose
i always member this when im fightin chaos spawn
dodge to right when he uses his tenticle arm
tall torrent
How that work
no ping = zero lag compensation
steel veldt
no ping = zero lag compensation
huh
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> you do cara and unyielding now right?
on power sword? yea after the buff unyielding is pretty bonkers
cuz u can reach 2 hit on every other elite
sharp epoch
signal garden
Block stab overhead the big guy killing king
vale bear
Anyone lfg?
stable socket
So you're telling me this strategy works against the sergeant with the sword tha...
if only there were some meta weapon that did a lot of single target damage and was available on 3/5 classes, and for some reason fatshark also added a special that it could use to block every incoming melee hit while dealing damage back at the same time
crimson wyvern
I feel bad for whoever plays darktide at late hours for us brits
holy shit teams are ass for whoever plays at midnight my time
crimson wyvern
I'l be pondering whether that arbities rezzing me in front of 2 snipers only for me to insta-down and him to be knocked back off a ledge and die was a magnifent well timed troll or just a huge missplay
signal garden
Bufferingin fire to delay the timer, poggers
Pick me up in smite of snipers, based
Ressing someone in fire "borderline griefing"
faint beacon
I feel bad for whoever plays darktide at late hours for us brits
the 2 AM of US-East
You do not play Darktide at 2 AM US-East you get some of the worst players you've seen in your life
crimson wyvern
haha noted for later, i should have continued working on my projects instead of play those games
its so depressing how people still react to poxbursters
steel veldt
You do not play Darktide at 2 AM US-East you get some of the worst players you'v...
I play Darktide at 2 am Europe
eternal venture
You do not play Darktide at 2 AM US-East you get some of the worst players you'v...
The real play is to join an NA West party at 3:45 AM
You either get complete stoners or a very solid H40 team
hybrid plover
The real play is to join an NA West party at 3:45 AM
Why is this actually completely true.
Honestly sometimes they're one and the same
Stoners that are also just demons at this game
orchid hemlock
I play Darktide at 2 am Europe
You play Darktide 2!?!?!
eternal venture
Yeah you take a gamble with the stoners too
And the later you play, the better it (usually) works out
hybrid plover
Reminds me of the one time I was doin lile
A havoc 36?
In Carnival
And before the breaching charge, someone said just a moment so they could take a pull of their bong
Basically caught a lung debuff with how hard they were coughing on the mic and that dude was a complete monster with a grenadier gauntlet
That was actually one of my first close calls for a true survivor but the psyker blew up
At like 4am mind u
ivory trail
I was just lucky enough to lead a newbies team in a auric last night. Two not 30lv player and one just got to 30. They down a lot and really makes me sweat.
One of them took 1k8 damage in total
Not ogryn by the way
hollow ibex
One of them took 1k8 damage in total
that's honestly super impressive
ivory trail
Two under level took 1k2 and 1k8 damage. I very much dragging their dead body through the game lol
spark helm
At like 4am mind u
I played blitzed to hell as a fun heehee while streaming the game for friends and the randoms with me had a ball. Just a faded zealot doing 360 goofy shit and pointless plays for people waiting for rescues.
Recently during the new event I got caught in that weird boxed in room at the top of the stairs before the elevator for the phagetree map thing or whatever it's called and I had to play leap frog in that dead end of a room off the little table to avoid crusher swings and break line of sight for grunt shooters.
Plasma gunners just bullied me to stay pinned then a burster finished the job.
Bounced me and the animation locked me in so I just ate a crusher overhead.
I should really consider recording clips. This game is comedy gold sometimes.
The goofiest death i eve saw was someone getting plasma gunnered off a platform and falling into a mixed horde with maulers and ragers surrounding them.
ivory trail
Oh yeah, what armour is plasma gunner? Same as mauler?
spark helm
Yeah
Carapace head, flak body.
Err torso. I never shoot them below the waist. 
Idk if their legs are different. Doubtful.
ivory trail
Thx. Feeled it by the look but never have mental power to confirm it
spark helm
You can probably just check the gameslantern
Or uh
I don't remember if the vet guide has it but the zealot guide pinned in the discord thread there has a chart listing the enemies of the game and what they got.
Steam guides is a great resource too for basic information about the game.
I think kuli on steam guides has one that explains all the enemies or something like that.
And if you ever go into the meat grinder (place where sefoni is), you can see the kind of resistance being applied when you hit an enemy.
Well before mods to add monstrosities and captains as well (if that's a thing for captain bosses).
ivory trail
It isn't in the meat grinder. I just prefer spend time in the game more than go do some homework outside.
Unless it is really bothering me
spark helm
You can definitely see what kind of armor is being slapped through the meat grinder. There should be words that pop up when you do damage too.
It'll be like [x number. Unyielding] or something
Floating text.
orchid hemlock
Vets bore this into your mind please
azure narwhal
Mutant looks amazing
meager echo
This art style remind me of the game sulfur
meager echo
finally lol
narrow frost
I had someone rage quit my lobby saying that he was going to have to hard carry if I was playing double barrel
slow sky
what strat is this called (this is with chainaxe)
narrow frost
right
hybrid plover
how darktide has fallen
Here we go again
I guarantee you they're not gonna have a good time
Tanner Lindberg has been catastrophic for this game's weapon variety.
vestal olive
Don't shoot the messenger..
meager echo
I guarantee you they're not gonna have a good time
The moment he out of frag he's going to run around doing the "clutch"
hybrid plover
Don't shoot the messenger..
I will because he's wrong.
Dueling sword is literally not that good in havoc
Or I suppose he's right about it being the "Auric" meta
eternal venture
rejected as a h40 true survivor shovel db vet in favor of a h34 ds plasma vet
let me guess
a smite psyker was running the lobby
It's always the Smite Psykers who are the most dramatic
"Please run smokes for me, I'm not running bubble"
"Can you run shout for me? I'm gonna be zapping them"
etc.
then they leave after the first loss
hybrid plover
Which, which self respecting player actually cares about playing the meta in auric of all things
eternal venture
Tanner Lindberg has been catastrophic for this game's weapon variety.
"Tanner Lindberg has been catastrophic for this game" yeah
hollow ibex
honestly i think yall over estimate how much influence tanner has lol
meager echo
He's doing the meta for the game mode that no-one care about the meta .
Using ds on vet in havoc is asking to be push back out of bubble & smoke during horde.
eternal venture
"Vet can you please switch to kraks? Nobody else is running anti-armor and I'm definitely not going to"
eternal venture
honestly i think yall over estimate how much influence tanner has lol
It's more like the whole popular content creator circle tends to echo one another, and he's just one part of it
Watch them remove Uncanny from the DS and then half the zealot/vet playerbase has a mental breakdown
void dragon
"Vet can you please switch to kraks? Nobody else is running anti-armor and I'm d...
"do my laundry that im to lazy to do myself"
meager echo
Apparently no vet using DS in havoc in my sv. Even low havoc know that's a bad idea.
eternal venture
Yeah I think it's mostly an American and EU server thing
hybrid plover
honestly i think yall over estimate how much influence tanner has lol
He's the one touting the dueling sword meta for every class that can use it recently
And what do you know
More dueling swords in havoc suddenly
void dragon
what im wondering is what they expect to use for horde clear when they run out of ammo
eternal venture
what im wondering is what they expect to use for horde clear when they run out o...
Their team
hybrid plover
The correlation is not lost with me.
eternal venture
That's exactly what they're thinking lol
void dragon
He's the one touting the dueling sword meta for every class that can use it rece...
and with no much pushback against it, nor many reliable sources of builds, guess what: DS everywhere
eternal venture
"The Ogryn, Psyker, flamer Zealot, Arb can take care of it"
then
"omg i got cornered and died"
void dragon
" let ogryn and psyker do that "
"what psyker and ogryn? Timmy, we are all vets and zealots with DS and the one compentent guy"
eternal venture
a lot of casual players run into that circle of content creators and treat them as gospel
because they're who come up first when you look up DT build guides
meager echo
I watch his havoc run on stream. He asked his zealot to charge gunners back line in h40
eternal venture
LMAO
void dragon
because they're who come up first when you look up DT build guides
they also treat it like gspel because A) there arent many realiable sources of builds because B) many of the Gameslantern builds are actual sins
hybrid plover
Vet having some of the best means of horde clear in the game too
eternal venture
The funny thing is that's technically what zealot is made for... in the 2023 version of the game
meager echo
I actually look up to tanner alot, he made tons of quality content. But he often let his ego get the best of him.
hybrid plover
It's a sad time in Darktide with the Sloptide creators thinking they know what they're actually talking about. 😔
umbral scaffold
Bit toxic
eternal venture
just a bit
umbral scaffold
You can just tell based on how someone talks
eternal venture
I mean the man is willing to doxx game devs who don't cater to him
he just shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a content creator program
willow prairie
honestly i think yall over estimate how much influence tanner has lol
except he the most popular "meta" youtuber lol
even if his build are dogshit
void dragon
who are the good ones that show their builds btw?
hybrid plover
I like Khandones
Tries offmeta stuff, but knows how to rock it.
Mr. Unc as well.
meager echo
I'm pretty sure Khandones is very flexible with his weapon choice. He's not the meta chaser guy.
void dragon
I like Khandones
i already see Khan, but Mr Unc is new to me, gotta search him
calm shard
I love my off-meta vet builds
exe stance my beloved
double barrel shotgun how do I live without you
void dragon
I'm pretty sure Khandones is very flexible with his weapon choice. He's not the ...
honestly, if its builds make sense and are not detrimental im calling myself satisfied
hybrid plover
i already see Khan, but Mr Unc is new to me, gotta search him
Mr. Unc is also just a very entertaining content creator.
jaunty sphinx
Honestly I can accept something being overpowered if it's actually fun but DS is so brainless
meager echo
Mr. Unc is my favorite. Very mechanical skilled player.
hybrid plover
Dueling sword is overpowered*
*in Auric
meager echo
Always using off meta
hybrid plover
I wouldn't say "always"
jaunty sphinx
The game isn't balanced around havoc
hybrid plover
But he does try goofy stuff.
umbral scaffold
Unc isn't insufferable like tanner
jaunty sphinx
You know what, yeah
hybrid plover
But Fatshark is clearly gearing balancing towards that direction.
vestal olive
It feels overpowered in that if you are bad, then you can perform extraordinarily well with DS
hybrid plover
I knew what was coming when I saw how significant the gaps between reworked Ogryn, Arby and Psyker were before the reworks.
meager echo
The game isn't balanced around havoc
If we not taking havoc into consideration. Everthing else is more than viable in auric. You don't need a video to tell you what to run to win consistently.
willow prairie
"viable" is broad
jaunty sphinx
I'm not saying you need it
willow prairie
you can technically run anything
jaunty sphinx
I just think ds isn't fun to use
hybrid plover
And now after, every class, while a lot more leveled with each other, just do so much more damage that even with the changes to Auric, any class can kinda trivialize it.
meager echo
I just think ds isn't fun to use
You run DS in auric you will not get the result you looking for. Arbi with exterminator shotgun III, assail gun psyker will get all the kill before you can even stab anything.
calm shard
I don't know why people say that like Arbites wasn't 3rd strongest class when they released
eternal venture
All of its damage and toughness regen numbers are overtuned for Auric and feel "fine" for high havoc
calm shard
People massively overstate how good Arbites is just because they're tanky
willow prairie
or because arby is literally baby mode in auric
calm shard
Oggy and Psyker run circles around them
willow prairie
lol
hybrid plover
Arbites is really strong and safe
willow prairie
psyker is braindead but people act like you need 300 iq to use them
hybrid plover
That's what makes it so good.
willow prairie
also "squishy"
formal ice
psyker is braindead but people act like you need 300 iq to use them
Never heard anyone say that
calm shard
okay staff psyker isn't exactly taking much risk
eternal venture
psyker is braindead but people act like you need 300 iq to use them
It's just because people who are new to DT aren't used to playing Psyker
formal ice
That isn't named "cy"
eternal venture
and managing Peril
hybrid plover
okay staff psyker isn't exactly taking much risk
Maybe if you've played psyker for a while
sharp epoch
had a terrible teammate on havoc ðŸ˜
vestal olive
Psyker doesn't have the same free, low skill "outs" that the other classes do though
willow prairie
you can run trauma but that require having unlobotomized teammate
eternal venture
that's why trauma is the way to go
sharp epoch
Psyker doesn't have the same free, low skill "outs" that the other classes do th...
wdym smite psyker is right there
calm shard
Maybe if you've played psyker for a while
genuinely inferno psyker is one of the easiest most braindead playstyles in the entire game
regardless of play time
calm shard
Psyker doesn't have the same free, low skill "outs" that the other classes do th...
bubble, inferno staff, smite
vestal olive
wdym smite psyker is right there
okay okay okay okay wait if we dont take smite
eternal venture
You do have to have a basic level of positioning to not die as psyker
but you do also create your own cover ever 20-30 seconds
hollow ibex
Psyker doesn't have the same free, low skill "outs" that the other classes do th...
literally the most braindead class rn
it's what happens when you make a glass cannon
just a cannon
no downsides
vestal olive
bubble, inferno staff, smite
inferno staff is not an "out"
i wouldnt say bubble is either. not for a low skill player. if a low skill player is "in trouble", a bubble isnt going to save them
sharp epoch
okay okay okay okay wait if we dont take smite
Honeslty once you get peril down, the staff builds are pretty easy too and you mostly focus on your ranged instead of swapping to melee
eternal venture
It's def the easiest class to carry with in Havoc if your teammates have half a brain and create space for you, though
hybrid plover
Okay, excluding smite and maybe inferno, psyker as a class still has a floor to reach.
It's the ceiling reaching outer space that's the issue with it.
eternal venture
Trauma at least gets the braincells working
willow prairie
trauma just feel like shit to use even when you're dealing damage
calm shard
It's def the easiest class to carry with in Havoc if your teammates have half a ...
This is literally the exact thing randos don't do in havoc
Nobody takes builds that can make space and it's why so many groups struggle in the 20-30 range
Nobody wants to play the melee frontline, and everyone is using dueling swords
sharp epoch
trauma just feel like shit to use even when you're dealing damage
my gf mains trauma since talent tree came out and hasn't swapped since ._.
hybrid plover
Arbites is a class you can just pick up and there you go.
Which ironically results in a lot of then playing like morons, funny enough.
willow prairie
*Nobody takes builds that can make space and it's why so many groups struggle in...
that one time i joined a h34 game the psyker was running smite
dark surge
literally the most braindead class rn
shouldnt this be arbites
eternal venture
I've been on the trauma train since month 1
sharp epoch
scrier's gaze smyker is the most busted build atm
eternal venture
And it's only gotten better since then (except last season, when Final Toll was a thing)
willow prairie
arbites is overhated since he just easy to pickup and win
vestal olive
arbites with sword and board i think is more braindead than anything else this game has to offer
calm shard
arbites is overhated since he just easy to pickup and win
also because they're DLC so CLEARLY they're pay to win!
willow prairie
but once you know what you're doing psyker is even more braindead
hybrid plover
arbites is overhated since he just easy to pickup and win
Arbiters is overhated because of the players that play it imho
calm shard
please don't bring up the very real reasons that Ogryn and Psyker are stronger and as easy if not easier than them
meager echo
You know what else is the real problem with less experience player...
I played with psyker and vet who take x3 toughness curios into havoc. Instantly die from pox burster .
eternal venture
A lot of Arbs don't even exploit the class to its fullest, either
meager echo
95hp
eternal venture
And by that, I mean running dogless shock mine regen
and spacing all of your CC out so that you always have a CC button for every single horde
calm shard
Even with dog nerf I don't think dogless is stronger than dog on arbites
eternal venture
or just play shock dog
vestal olive
and then take shield
dark surge
but once you know what you're doing psyker is even more braindead
true
calm shard
if you micro manage that dog it is a crazy mixed horde deleter
vestal olive
shield + shock mine + dogless mine regen + break the line
count how many times enemies get to even swing
psyker has to put more brainial power into watching peril alone than cc arbites has to for the entire game
hybrid plover
Well hey. At least all classes are actually somewhat strong now.
Double barrel vet unironically giving inferno psyker a run for their money puts a tear in my eye
hollow ibex
shouldnt this be arbites
arbites is good competition but doesn't scale anywhere near as well as psyker
ivory trail
So fire and smite psyker is the easiest way to go now? Haven't been playing for some times and seems the table turn again
hybrid plover
Psyker is fundamentally just broken right now
eternal venture
The classes are more on-par with each other now, and more is viable below Havoc
hybrid plover
I mean it always has been. But it's worse now.
dark surge
its probably just because of personal bias from seeing shitty arbites run around on auric and havoc
eternal venture
But FS wants this game to shift more toward Havoc-like gameplay, and a lot of the actual enemy changes they added made Havoc itself much harder
Psyker got the biggest tree glow-up and it was already strong
it's very funny
dark surge
the only competent one ive played with was kuli and that was when he was bored out of his mind
hybrid plover
Giving the "glass cannon" a constant 25% damage reduction.
dark surge
But FS wants this game to shift more toward Havoc-like gameplay, and a lot of th...
current havoc is just miserable
calm shard
Psyker got the biggest tree glow-up and it was already strong
Just A Dream is very fair and balanced fr fr
vestal olive
I would like to see non-fading light high level havoc at some point still
eternal venture
Just A Dream is very fair and balanced fr fr
Actually insane how people weren't talking about JaD when the patch dropped lol
It's Unchained but better
eternal venture
current havoc is just miserable
It's so awful
Blue stimms, Purple, Rotten Armor all compound with the Crusher and Rager health buffs
And every game takes at least 40 minutes to an hour
Before the patch, only Excise Vault would take that long
willow prairie
literally everyone talked about jad
dark surge
ive gotten used to the long run times and thats not something that bothers me much
what itches me is the fucking blue stim
who at fatshark thought 80% dr is fun
calm shard
Blue stimms, Purple, Rotten Armor all compound with the Crusher and Rager health...
compound this DICK (throws Krak grenade)
eternal venture
literally everyone talked about jad
idk the Psyker discord def wasn't talking about it when i went in there lol
oddly enough
hybrid plover
I like the concept of stimms
eternal venture
There were people trying to figure out how it worked with peril resistance per Kuli's notes
willow prairie
blue stim bulwark
eternal venture
compound this **DICK** (throws Krak grenade)
That's the problem
hybrid plover
But why the fuck can they make ragers literally invulnerable
eternal venture
Every Havoc match is
willow prairie
the funniest part of jad is dying because you get hit at the exact moment you're casting
dark surge
ive genuinely never noticed the effects of stims ever aside from blue stim
hybrid plover
Who actually thought this was a good idea
willow prairie
green stim double the hp
eternal venture
kiting backward and hoping you chuck enough kraks at the wall of rotten armored, constantly healing/stimmed crushers to kill them before they back you into a corner
hybrid plover
And Garden?
hybrid plover
Another modifier that just needs to go into the trash.
eternal venture
the funniest part of jad is dying because you get hit at the exact moment you're...
That's happened to me before lol
Unchained problems 😔
hybrid plover
Awful design
willow prairie
I can't wait until i get competent bot in vt2 but it slow
meager echo
The main problem is rotten armour. It boost the armour spawn.
Everything else is easier.
hybrid plover
The main problem is rotten armour. It boost the armour spawn.
Everything else is...
Rotten Armor itself is not that bad.
eternal venture
At most, I'd let Garden stay and make it so it pulses once every so often, instead of being a constant stream of health
orchid hemlock
Who actually thought this was a good idea
The guys who did Final Toll 😈
hybrid plover
Mobian 21st and Rotten aren't a bad mix to deal with
eternal venture
All of the individual mods aren't SO bad, but when they're combined
to form the perfect monster
that's when it gets awful
dark surge
garden rager with blue stim
eternal venture
on TOP of Crusher/Rager buffs and Havoc scaling
eternal venture
Actually invulnerable lol
hybrid plover
The guys who did Final Toll 😈
Final Toll is legit my favorite modifier
dark surge
unkillable fuck
eternal venture
if it's a Dreg rager
tall torrent
Another modifier that just needs to go into the trash.
havoc modifiers are becoming like BL3's mayhem modifiers which most people hated
dark surge
life if deathwish was just copied 1:1 into havoc
eternal venture
Yeah FS clearly drew from Deathwish Onslaught
dark surge
dont even need the havoc modifiers deathwish alone is enough to warrent the difficulty spike
eternal venture
Except it's just miserable here with all of the healing
DW itself is bad enough imo
hybrid plover
havoc modifiers are becoming like BL3's mayhem modifiers which most people hated
Like, the healing is one thing. But the fact that it gets so dense that you can't even get to the things that are healing everything sometimes.
dark surge
Yeah FS clearly drew from Deathwish Onslaught
i dont get how they took the wrong lessons from dwons
hybrid plover
And dreg captains having 100% chance to spawn purple
eternal venture
and don't forget the silent trappers/bursters hiding in the mass of purple rotten armor
hybrid plover
Who the fuck thought that was a good idea???
eternal venture
We've reach the point where the sound channels get so loaded that they cannot play the sounds of specials that just spawned
which leads to people getting hit by like four bursters at once, or three trappers shooting in a row
dark surge
welcome to another day of "what the fuck is going on my screen"
eternal venture
(through the mass of purple rotten armor)
Oh yeah
And the screen is completely green from all the gas, too
willow prairie
We've reach the point where the sound channels get so loaded that they cannot pl...
It's old new
dark surge
darktide hyperdensity is just so, so bad
hybrid plover
It's old new
It's never been this bad though.
tall torrent
And dreg captains having 100% chance to spawn purple
they rly want u to do shroudfield backstab 1 taps lol
most havoc modifiers are pretty fun-adverse
eternal venture
It's definitely worse than before
My theory is someone on the dev team really wanted Kraks to be good again
and crafted the entire current Havoc rotation, as well as the elite hp buffs, around it
eternal venture
I feel like I'm playing VT2 at the height of Grail Knight ulting every 20 seconds to deal with CW pats
dark surge
casts from 50m away and then tps out of bounds
eternal venture
except the grail knight is a vet chucking kraks
tall torrent
orange makes fighting mixed horde a slog
garden is just dps farm for psyker or the most aids mixed horde u've ever seen
blue stim is cancer
rot armor is krak heaven + uncanny DOT spam
it's gotten progressively worse that pus-hardened looks tame by comparison
tall torrent
and they balance havoc towards the best performing (overpowered) weapons / cheese strats
eternal venture
Ayup
dark surge
yepyep
eternal venture
which means the entire game itself is steadily geared more and more toward havoc
dark surge
same
hybrid plover
But there's
hybrid plover
so many missteps in how it's been approached
dark surge
havoc lets me fill my adhd rush when i cant get a game in modded vt2
willow prairie
havoc have the best horde in the game
eternal venture
But 6/8 games are misery this season
hybrid plover
And this season especially has shown its problems in full force
willow prairie
imagine that but without hitmass adjustment
tall torrent
the only baseline mod that I don't agree with at this point is chaos horde units' mass increase
cuz it just funnels everybody into cleave weapons and the discrepancy there is massive
willow prairie
I think that still gonna happen either way with the density
eternal venture
Yeah the horde density and boss/captain spawns make havoc exciting
tall torrent
and the thing is
eternal venture
When every map is an hour-long slog though
tall torrent
even when u build cleave
willow prairie
but you get more option for sure
eternal venture
it's just exhausting
eternal venture
Also, utility ults just reign supreme in Havoc
because you typically have 'enough' damage to kill through your weapon and talent choices
tall torrent
relic blade gets mogged by power sword because ur mixed horde dps just tanks fighting carapace
eternal venture
Helping everyone else live longer so they can kill things + you killing 1-2 extra elites every 40 seconds (the Chorus vs. FotF dilemma)
vestal olive
but also letting them swing with abandon, not having to care
dark surge
utility ults were always a problem when havoc came around
tall torrent
I honestly think removing the chaos horde unit mass buff and tuning down +cleave effects from blessings would be better for the game
eternal venture
The Gold Toughness discussion deserves an entire essay
vestal olive
what was havoc season 1 if not bubble book shout ad nauseam?
dark surge
you have multiple get out of jail free cards
tall torrent
I honestly think removing the chaos horde unit mass buff and tuning down +cleave...
no blessing should give more than +100% cleave imho
at most +100%
dark surge
to the point where even on havoc i see people bring bad habits into it
eternal venture
Yeah, the devs at least recognized that last season
dark surge
holding w through the entire match because gold toughness + ult spam
eternal venture
Though their solution this season was to just limit how much gold toughness we get PLUS making enemies tougher
Which... just makes you bring even more gold toughness than before
while shutting out even more options
dark surge
no reason to hold, no reason to linearise hordes, no reason to clear a room before proceeding
you go in
zealot presses F
kill kill
next room, ogryn presses F
taunts everything
kill kill
next room, psyker drops a bubble
kill kill
vestal olive
nah dude psyker was dropping bubble in every room back then
eternal venture
I mean
dark surge
he still can
vestal olive
it was more monotanous than that
tall torrent
psyker still drops bubble every room and does 3x the next best class' dps
dark surge
i just played a h30 game where i was shitting out bubbles
eternal venture
Not like the old days where you farted out 5-6 in a row
vestal olive
Yeah but people dare to play havoc 40 without bubble psyker.
only like 10 people did that back then
eternal venture
but you still overlap 2-3 at once in current havoc
To be fair, usually you get flamed in public lobbies if you don't play bubble...
dark surge
the only reason i run bubble is to get a game up or else i get rejected
eternal venture
But you can do it because Scrier's is so good now
tall torrent
psyker so op that somehow vet looks tame by comparison which is an insane thing to say given vet's current kit's versatility
meager echo
But tbh, without bubble, havoc run is miserable.
They make the game that way...
dark surge
you need some-form of stun anyways regardless
bubble just makes it so you dont need to take cover
you dont need to think of hold spots
you dont need to think of ambushes
eternal venture
But tbh, without bubble, havoc run is miserable.
They make the game that way...
Yepp
dark surge
you put it down and bam you now hold here
eternal venture
Bubble is a natural rallying point
dark surge
yea
vestal olive
do people actually get flamed in pub lobbies? the only experience i have had is silent rejection in party finder OR party disbands after a loss
eternal venture
people move into bubble, then you walk to the next bubble, and the next...
eternal venture
do people actually get flamed in pub lobbies? the only experience i have had is ...
Usually it's a very polite or passive-aggressive flame
"It would be a lot easier if you ran bubble"
"I think we need bubble..."
vestal olive
That's not really flame ahahaha
hybrid plover
do people actually get flamed in pub lobbies? the only experience i have had is ...
yes
eternal venture
Well I have seen people legit get mad lol
happened to a psyker I played with earlier today
He got yelled at on vc lmao
dark surge
lmaoo
vestal olive
or maybe ive just played too much league of legends in my past
hybrid plover
i've had someone quite literally get mad because me and another vet were using the same aura
vestal olive
and nothing but the purest flame gets to my soul now
dark surge
tbf i think thats also a byproduct of havoc demotion anyways
tall torrent
havoc ranks are ass
eternal venture
Nah I've heard screamers on mic a few times this havoc season
tall torrent
rly should just be 3 ranks
eternal venture
on par with your average dota screamer
eternal venture
rly should just be 3 ranks
Agreed
dark surge
fuck it let people choose man
hybrid plover
seething
vestal olive
Nah I've heard screamers on mic a few times this havoc season
Wild lmao. Love it
hybrid plover
on a co-op pve game
tall torrent
h21 (beginner)
h31 (for those that want the real deal)
h40 (for those that want maximum CBT)
every other rank don't matter
eternal venture
You should still have to do a few H40s to unlock the mode ala Maelstrom
And I do like assembling team comps ngl
hybrid plover
like i get some frustration at times
dark surge
i dont get why they have h1-20
meager echo
He got yelled at on vc lmao
It's not a players problem.
Fatshark create an environment where people get heavily punish for not using meta builds.
People will try to avoid that by gate keeping build, true level and title.
eternal venture
but after that, once you earn it? Let people host H40s and go at it
eternal venture
It's not a players problem.
Fatshark create an environment where people get heav...
Yeah sadly
I've even noticed it myself
vestal olive
i dont get why they have h1-20
for malice gamers to get to play with the admittedly fun mutators
hybrid plover
but some people in havoc legit lose their shit when things don't go their way like it's a call of duty search and destoy game
it's crazy
vestal olive
i wish some of these mutators could come to auric maels
eternal venture
When I play low 30 Havocs or help people in H20s or whatever, I don't care if people run goofy stuff
But if they're running no-bubble in my H38? I get tense lol
tall torrent
h21 is a good entry point because it starts damnation scaling
and havoc is supposed to be the "next difficulty" after auric which is same scaling as damnation just with extra spawn intensity
eternal venture
Mhhmm
tall torrent
h31 is where fading light 2 starts for the real havoc experience
then h40 for max enemy scaling
and remove this rotating modifier nonsense between szns
hybrid plover
i am of the firm opinion, that all should be able to use what they want if they know what they're doing
tall torrent
if a szn can only have 4~5 modifiers at a time it gets predictable & repetitive fast
eternal venture
screaming
I've told the story before, but a Psyker and I got yelled at by some arb who got bounced into a chaos spawn
hybrid plover
and demotion completely opposes that thought process
eternal venture
He left, I rejoined his lobby as ogryn
tall torrent
havoc is even more repetitive in a sense because u always know wat ur getting urself into (party finder)
and the modifiers are "same ish" given a szn
eternal venture
and then he started being all thankful on mic when I clutch revived him and his friend
really sad stuff
vestal olive
Eh hopefully he was just young
tall torrent
auric is at least fun cuz ur teammates can vary in skill lvl a lot
eternal venture
Maybe. Didn't sound that way though...
vestal olive
My typical auric mael experience is playing duo. Playing solo sucks cause you decide to unga bunga for one moment and get knocked off a ledge and your game is over lmao
they do be hitting those barrels
eternal venture
AWAY FROM YON BARREL
game instantly ends because two people got blown off a bridge during twins + captain + two monsters
dark surge
my most recent auric runs consisted of two arbites speedrunning (separate matches)
meager echo
The way I see it. Content creators keep asking for meta builds nerf.
They have the option to not use those meta builds, but they don't.
Their opinion influence the player base -> fatshark balance the game in an unhealthy way -> everyon lose.
vestal olive
Well I think the thoughts behind it are that power creep is ripping the game in half
meager echo
Now the game is balance in a way that magnify those problems even more...
vestal olive
And that the game would be better if player power and enemy power were both nerfed
dark surge
In 10 years that will happen
foggy rune
*game instantly ends because two people got blown off a bridge during twins + ca...
Sometimes for some reason you don't hear that when you have specialists in your face?
dark surge
the way I see it is that fatshark realized that they have a fanbase for hardcore stuff
which is why histg was made
And then the talent tree update came out and players got a massive power buff because balancing
tbf it was fatshark's first time doing this kind of stuff
then histg became too easy
and then they made havoc
then for some random reason they wanted to make it so histg and havoc are accessible to the casual player
despite both modes targeting the tryhard community specifically
so they upped the power scaling again
vestal olive
i dont think histg is accessible to the casual player right now
source: i know 5 casual players irl
meager echo
Most of my friends can't handle this game. They say it's too stressfull.
willow prairie
I'll say im pretty casual
vestal olive
Show me those steam hours
eternal venture
Part of it is probably also because hardcore streamers are the face of this game
It's a pretty common marketing/community tactic these days to cater to the most dedicated content creators and streamers
dark surge
ive had a casual vt2 friend who had over 5000 hours but cant dodge dance a horde
frigid shuttle
Most of my friends can't handle this game. They say it's too stressfull.
uprising is not stressful 
dark surge
do not ask me how
frigid shuttle
Auric can be, if you have idjits on the team.
dark surge
pc
vestal olive
i mean i would be a heresy gamer maximum on controller unless i played the easiest builds
frigid shuttle
actually the one game without mods was pretty annoying after patch
idk, meleetide is pretty strong these days, you don't need mouse and keyboard
dark surge
so many qol stuff that are missing from the base game
frigid shuttle
I wouldn't want to do havoc
vestal olive
no i play mostly melee. im turbo butt dog water terrible at shooters
foggy rune
I wouldn't want to do havoc
I want to tbh
vestal olive
the best youre getting out of me is special sniping with revolver
dark surge
no i play mostly melee. im turbo butt dog water terrible at shooters
same
I will miss 5 throwing knives at the sniper in front of me