veteran-class

[hybrid plover]

Somehow.

[tall torrent]

only "nerf" notable is that mk2 can't spam chain H1 stab anymore

[hybrid plover]

Which doesn't matter because every class has access to so much extra damage that you don't even need to chain stab anymore.

Other than psyker. Psyker has just been busted from the getgo with damage.

[tall torrent]

Heavy Strikedown Stab
Finesse multiplier from (1.5, 3) to (1.2, 2.4).
adm vs Unyielding from 1 to 0.8.
adm vs Flak armour from 0.8 to 0.7.
adm vs Carapace armour from 0.6 to 0.5.
Reduced the active window of the attacks using this profile.

all these nerfs don't matter besides the finesse reduction (which is actually ok) because uncanny will send ur ADM >1 anyway

[hybrid plover]

Seems apt that they would "nerf" ds without actually changing the fundamental issue with it, being uncanny.

[tall torrent]

there are multiple fundamental issues

uncanny strike
the dodge template override
the bonkers sprint bonus

I don't think any weapon should have dodge template override besides knife atm

[hybrid plover]

Funny given a sabre is actually not that light.

[tall torrent]

neither tac axe nor DS deserve it

And knife’s dodge override should be a lower number

[meager echo]

I think they are trying to nerf it a little every patch to avoid the lash back from the community.

[tall torrent]

Just 2.5 (same as vet and zealot base) so psyker can use it and get same dodge distance as these other classes

No human weapon should have dodge distance approaching 3m

Completely ridiculous

[hybrid plover]

Ah yeah. Like the troglodytes who review bombed because of the leaked potential changes to ds and plasma.

[tall torrent]

I am debating if I want to include melee attacks’ reach in guide

[hybrid plover]

Which, how

How do two weapons being adjusted completely ruin your perception of a video game enough for you to resort to that

Especially when they haven't even happened

[tall torrent]

I think I actually have enough space to add in melee attacks’ reach

Maybe

If they actually stay consistent across the same attack template

But there’re cases of like

The same attack template being used for 2 diff attacks that have diff reach

Which kinda sucks for parsing format

[meager echo]

Ive been seeing lots of evis15 zealot lately. Is it stronger now ?

[tall torrent]

it's ok

it's one of the few weapons that can 1 tap crusher with crit-weakspot hit, without using ability for zealot

main downside is that it's abysmal vs rager groups cuz no good staggering atk

also weak-ish mixed horde clear since ur light sweeps don't do that well in dmg

[meager echo]

Isnt the light attack stagger ragers.

[tall torrent]

I wish lol

it cannot stagger an attacking rager

I only check stagger breakpoints when enemies have max stagger reduction (usually during their atk animations)

vs other melee elites like mauler or crusher, having a stagger that only works when they're not doing atk animation is tolerable

but vs rager nah they're almost always attacking when u consider melee vs them

the push atk can but it's saw-rip and doesn't stagger on 1st tick

and it's only 1 enemy at a time

got that beautiful 0.001 cleave

[meager echo]

haha

[tall torrent]

new plasma gun section

I added in hitreg radius' actual number

with space left for future variant additions of 2

hopefully they don't troll and do >3 variants per weapon family

[meager echo]

Is specialist also got hp increase in havoc? I thought only elite get x1.5 hp.

[narrow frost]

every enemy 1.5x

but captains

in 40

[tall torrent]

Elite x1.5
Specialist x1.5
Chaos horde x1.35
Scab & Dreg horde x1
Monster x1.7
Captain x1
Misc x1

[meager echo]

That explained a lot. Turn out i wasn't missing shots -.-

I tried to bodyshot them lmao.

[tall torrent]

Don’t bother

Havoc 1 taps basically are all crit-weakspots lol

Besides trapper and sniper

[nocturne mulch]

It wrecks rager groups....I have no trouble staggering ragers just with L spam on eviscerator

[tall torrent]

needs smth to break their atk animation first then the light sweep can "stagger" them

[nocturne mulch]

Yeah that something first is Light attack

[tall torrent]

Nah it doesn’t stagger

[nocturne mulch]

You can do nothing except L spam and can keep them staggered

Yeah it does

Even staggers crushers and bulwarks through shield

Take shred/perfect strike/blazing piety/stagger on melee weakspot and you are ogryn L spam 2.0

[tall torrent]

Grievous wounds?

Even with GW it doesn’t break rager combo

[nocturne mulch]

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe :)

[hybrid plover]

I have literally never seen an evi light break a rager combo

[tall torrent]

I'm testing it rn and it does not lol

[narrow frost]

would all the power increase from the tree change that?

I'm trying to remember if I ever staggered a rager

and I cant

[rancid egret]

Is the highest HP curio is 20%?

[narrow frost]

21

[narrow frost]

with a light

[tall torrent]

where's the power increase

[narrow frost]

ah

[rancid egret]

Damn..so close.

[narrow frost]

I guess just rampage

[hybrid plover]

Maybe the zealot talent that gives you uninterruptable?

[narrow frost]

but thats not enough

[tall torrent]

if they're not in atk animation (like, staggered by FotF), yes u can but only temporarily

[hybrid plover]

But even then, I've never seen it happen

[nocturne mulch]

If you say so

[meager echo]

Is it just me or is it bad rng. I haven't got any 21hp with my vet. ~500 true level. I've got it normally on other characters @.@

[hybrid plover]

Ima be real, it's not just them. I've never seen it happen either unless it's a revved heavy or a push attack

[narrow frost]

its fully rng

so it can happen

curio system should've been updated along with crafting

[tall torrent]

the number of hits needed to set it off is crazy lol

it takes like what

8 hits?

6?

yea no this is ass

[tall torrent]

punishment is pretty conditional

and like
if ur taking punishment + GW + rampage just so u can stagger specifically trios of dreg ragers on light swing weakspot hit within a reasonable timeframe (still not first hit stagger, mind u)

man that is serious commitment

[hybrid plover]

Hence why I wouldn't even bother to try and hit that kind of stagger breakpoint lol

[narrow frost]

Question that I can look into real quick if need be but, do dregs on average have more stagger res then scabs?

[tall torrent]

no

both ragers have the same stagger stats

[narrow frost]

Okay

[tall torrent]

resistance = 1
reduction = 50 (melee, ranged) when attacking
light threshold = 5

dreg is maniac for stagger check

[narrow frost]

probably just placebo that I was feeling

[tall torrent]

scab is flak for stagger check

either rager, evis XV light sweep doesn't do well at staggering them

[gilded wraith]

I used up all my curio luck yesterday

[tall torrent]

u can check enemy stats in new kuli guide

he listed everything

[narrow frost]

looking for stagger page

[nocturne mulch]

You have a really wierd take on things

[narrow frost]

I saw that new guide

[tall torrent]

just go to each enemy

[narrow frost]

yup

found it

passed over it

stagger res 1

damn

kuli is a beast

[tall torrent]

there're 2 stagger checks and u need to pass both checks for it to successfully stagger

[narrow frost]

I see

god, why couldnt they just use VT system

I guess it was too exploitable

[elder void]

so digging the bolter, and dueling sword right now, what blessings are good for them?

[tall torrent]

I think evis XV light being bad at staggering rager is prob due to the stagger type being sticky?

cuz the number isn't that bad

[narrow frost]

I think so

I'm doing some reading as well

[tall torrent]

first target 11.5 with 1.5 maniac mod so 17.25 vs maniac

[narrow frost]

atleast zealot gets fury for stagger

[tall torrent]

dreg rager check 1 needs >25 ECS to pass

which u can get with grievous wounds (17.25 x1.5 = 25.875)

but in game it does not stagger on first hit with weakspot

[narrow frost]

offline testing change stagger in any way?

[tall torrent]

shouldn't

[narrow frost]

[tall torrent]

it's prob just sticky stagger type being ass

[narrow frost]

would you even be suprised

[tall torrent]

every atk that uses stagger type = sticky seems to be bad at stagger

[narrow frost]

so chain weapons

[tall torrent]

I'm not bored enough to dig the code that explains why

[narrow frost]

fair

[tall torrent]

and this should pass stagger check 2 as well since resistance is 1 and threshold is 5, with stagger reduction/4 being 12.5
so 25.875-12.5 = 13.375 > 5
it's even better than medium stagger threshold which is 10 for both ragers

but it does not

lol

[hybrid plover]

Bolter = Pinning Fire + Puncture
Dueling sword = Mix of Uncanny, Riposte, Precognition. Thrust is also good but niche compared to those other three

If you use shredders, Uncanny is highly recommended

[midnight wyvern]

Pinning fire/puncture or shattering impact/puncture are good, I've seen surgical/puncture but that's weird.

Uncanny/precognition or uncanny thrust is nice on DS, riposte can be okay but I much rather precog if it's not thrust

[midnight wyvern]

[tall torrent]

and shock maul's special I think?

and force swords II & IV's warp imbued attacks

[narrow frost]

dont tell me the shock maul special is the same code as a chains weapon since it sticks

I guess it makes sense

but a bit lazy

[tall torrent]

should also be stagger type = sticky

also the sapper shovels III & VII's folded heavy attacks do sticky stagger type on the first damaging tick

[narrow frost]

holy

the rabbit hole

[tall torrent]

that should be everything (?)

[hybrid plover]

this all is a certified moment

i suppose it's not as complicated as it could be

not should lol

[tall torrent]

if/when they buff evis XV and change the light sweep attack from sticky to melee stagger type it'll be a historical glowup lol

[narrow frost]

I don't see them doing that though

and if they do it'll be in a big update in atleast a year

[nocturne mulch]

Wierd how I just jumped into a game to test and sure enough I'm just standing there staggering ragers/crushers/bulwarks/maulers with XV light spam

You do you

[tall torrent]

can u record and show it

[charred kraken]

Am I allowed to talk now

[midnight wyvern]

No

[charred kraken]

Wait i remember I have free will

[midnight wyvern]

I noticed one of the cadian troops talking at the bridge section in decapitation in SM2 sounds like the Cadian VA in Darktide

I'm not home to bother looking it up but that'd be cool if he was in both lol

Male VA*

[grim hedge]

Good gracious, I know the mk6 combat blade (the "twist and stab" push attack one rather than the vertical slash push attack one) was always great on the Vet but a melee-specc'd vet with the mk6 knife does insane damage now

[tough nova]

Mk3 feels pretty great as well

[elder void]

How do you guys feel about the new bolter variant?

[junior grail]

Fun, not as damaging but good crowd control

[midnight wyvern]

Unironically pretty much starts and ends with this lol

It'd be neat if it had a unique version of puncture that applied the bleed in an aoe but less stacks

Or if it applied shrimp to everything hit

But it's currently just a nice control weapon

[void dragon]

feels like a flamer that is worse at horde cleaning but can cc mixed hordes good while still being able to snipe

i like it for some builds

would not mind more ammo, the reduction from base form seems unnecesary

[willow canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flightreacts-flight-reacts-shocked-dumb-gif-6313022364613646356

[dapper coyote]

Is the shotguns good for veteran? (not double barrel)

[dry cloak]

yes

mostly the agrippina one

[desert valve]

All of them are good.

[desert valve]

WHAT IS LIL BRO DOING!?

[willow canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flight-sad-sad-flight-flight-frown-whatchu-mean-speed-gif-16301558380807666913

[fresh dome]

Loving the changes to vigilant rifle

[desert valve]

Marksman's Focus user spotted.

Enjoying your extra rending when at or above 10 stacks?

[grand perch]

It's quite good on vigi

But you should get rid of the wound curio asap

[azure narwhal]

Wound curio

https://tenor.com/view/daeth-funi-periflight-dies-from-gif-22212023

[dapper coyote]

Questions about qurios

What kind of qurios should i search for and ditch for?

And i heard that toughness regen is nice for new players (like me) should I also get it?

[shy raft]

Toughness x3

toughnebss x2 health x1

[midnight wyvern]

never

toughness regen on curio perks is ass

vet has quite a few good options for toughness regen in your talent tree

[hybrid plover]

vet is health, toughness and stamina

[meager echo]

How did that psyker not dying from overloading peril @.@

Is this the new thing ?

[mortal aspen]

no, they could always do that with a talent
now they also avoid taking corruption if they kill an elite with the explosion

[meager echo]

so they stop taking corruption dmg or go down if they down to the last 2 wounds ?

[pseudo fiber]

When they explode it just gives a wound and they don't go down. The update made it so fi they kill an elite I think then they don't get the wound either

[meager echo]

but he did not kill anything in the video...

is it a bug ?

[marsh condor]

So guys, what's Marksman good for?

[dapper coyote]

Standing still and die.
(jk)

[grand perch]

Big damage numbers on finesse type ranged weapons and more toughness + stamina regen

Pays for it with bad melee damage usually, due to bad pathing

[royal hollow]

What perks and blessings should i be running on the new plasma sword or whateber it's called

[pseudo fiber]

cranial + wrath/leakage/heatsink unyielding carapace

[olive halo]

bros, do we still dump collateral on the new bistol or nah?

[worn slate]

does this perk apply on your melee strikes as well?

[frank basin]

Indeed

Same with Marksman

If is doesn’t said specifically what type weapon then it is global damage

[worn slate]

Awesome, thanks!

[frank basin]

Check out boltpistol blessing “Lethal Proximity” also boost shredder grenade radius

Just any kind Grenade radius I think

[willow prairie]

marksman is not just damage

its strength

so better than it sound

[desert valve]

It's very busted when paired with the Duelling Sword.

I have come to enjoy using it in combination with the Bolt Pistol.

[rose flax]

Hi what is the best dump stack for Power Falchion
Heat management at 60%
Or mobility at 60%
Thanks in advance

[dry cloak]

mob

[desert valve]

^

[dry cloak]

and if it feels to slow then switch

[desert valve]

Power Management lets you Hack & Slash better.

[dry cloak]

🤮 ds

[desert valve]

I use the Weakpoint-heavy precision weapons on the Weakpoint-Specialised build.

And if I miss a weakpoint strike, I die.

It's as simple as that.

[willow prairie]

it's ok psword does way more damage

[dry cloak]

still

[desert valve]

In general, yeah.

It's why the damn thing stays on my VOC build.

It might not be as good at horde Clearing or Maniac Removing as a properly built Chainaxe but the anti-armour performance more than makes up for it.

[dry cloak]

i prefer heavy sword shock maul or the power falchion over psword

[turbid ibex]

Pord

[willow prairie]

what bro mean by not good at horde clear as chainaxe

same for maniac

sunder exist

[turbid ibex]

Pord is good at literally everything except mobility kinda

[dry cloak]

yes

[willow prairie]

how is chain axe better at horde clear than fucking pord

😭

the only competition to psword horde clear is charged strike chainsword on psyker but it probably a bug

[turbid ibex]

It might not be number 1 at some individual things but its at worst second or third

[desert valve]

Headtker & Slaughterer exist.

[willow prairie]

and it struggles against armours

ok bait

[turbid ibex]

Doesnt really mean much when pord has like 40 effective cleave

[tepid otter]

Pord is.. power sword?

[willow prairie]

chainaxe also still have shit mixed horde clear

[desert valve]

If you use the MkIV, yeah.

[willow prairie]

i guess we call it that noe

[turbid ibex]

Yes

Its funnier than psord

[willow prairie]

yeah it doesn't have wrath

still shit then

[turbid ibex]

Therefore superior

[frank basin]

Is alright for chaff horde

But elite and chaff is no no

[willow prairie]

pord have sunder which is effectively 400% cleave

on top of being able to cleave carapace

[desert valve]

The MkXII is surprisingly good for getting Hordes, Ragers & Shotgunners to fuck off.

[turbid ibex]

Its still not beating pord anytime soon

[willow prairie]

yeah this is bait

[frank basin]

Okay can it stop 20 rager patrol with crusher and bulwark?

I met 20 rager patrol in campaign

[desert valve]

The Bulwark and Crusher are fucking you up unless you have Kraks.

[frank basin]

And my psyker flame staff primary stagger stop them attacking

[desert valve]

Getting the weakspot damage skill makes the MkXII heavy do a funny amount of damage.

Not against Carapace though.

Against Carapace you're fucked.

[frank basin]

Mauler

[crimson wyvern]

ha, ha a SNIPER hood only for zealot you've done it again Fatshark

[desert valve]

rev that bitch up and hit 'em with a light.

He ain't got Carapace on his whole body.

[frank basin]

2 mauler going hammering you moment you try tap that

I means carapace is okay for my chainaxe

[desert valve]

1 mauler.
Because his buddy is shredded.

0 maulers, because you can just do it again.

[frank basin]

I still able chuck his 800 hp dmg chunk

[desert valve]

Putting Carapace Damage on it, I only recommend that if you're not bringing Kraks.

[frank basin]

Since I run demolition build with shredder

I still able use chainaxe on it

But I run boltgun mk3

Explosively

If I couldn’t rev chain then the poke attack would do it

[desert valve]

This actually works

[frank basin]

The poke attack may do lot damage

But not like ds

[desert valve]

I like shoving my chainaxe in a Rager's face when I'm at max stacks of Headtaker & Slaughterer.

Turns them into Salsa

[frank basin]

Nurgle Salsa

[pseudo fiber]

Don't eat that

[regal belfry]

it needs to be cleaned by holy flames or by weird soulblaze

[turbid ibex]

Two cavemen explaining to a third one why they should put the meat over the fire before eating it

[dapper pier]

We be doing acrobatics for our headshot multipliers 😩

[dry cloak]

nom

[inner imp]

What recon lasgun variant do you guys use?

[slow spade]

I use the middle variant (idk name) that fires slightly slower but has more damage per shot and uses 1 ammo

[inner imp]

thank you, I asked because I used that as well. Recently I've switched it up to the top one

@slow spade What preference do you have for perks/blessings on DS if you don't mind me asking?

[dry cloak]

use more manly weapons

like the shovel

[inner imp]

i already have a loadout for shovel and shock maul on vet

[dry cloak]

jokes aside

ds can make you a worse player

[inner imp]

i actually really enjoy shovel

[inner imp]

oh absolutely

i remember when we got access to it as vet for the first time i was like, wow this is knife but way better

[dry cloak]

maybe combat axe? for anti armor

[inner imp]

i have a loadout for my old antax combat axe that swings slow, i still like that one a lot

[dry cloak]

but this is go to ds

[inner imp]

dang, i use thrust instead of precog

[spark helm]

You can still just learn through the ds and be conscious about its strengths as a dodge friendly weapon then just use something else if you want.

[inner imp]

I appreciate you guys, I just asked cause I wanted to see what other people use

[spark helm]

You just wondering what pairs nicely with recon las?

[inner imp]

nah, just wondering what perks/blessings ppl use on it

my shovel loadout is my helbore krieger loadout, my recon is my bootleg kasrkin helgun with a shockmaul loadout

[dry cloak]

yes but a lot of player may use it without reflection. then every other weapon looks like shit

[spark helm]

Ah. Infernus + dumdum is one of the most common currently.

[inner imp]

DS/Plasma is my cheerleader vet loadout that i dont touch as much anymore

[dry cloak]

switch that ds for something better antihorde and you are golden

[dry cloak]

yes it is

[inner imp]

my loadouts are pretty much all themed, so i wouldnt know what to use for cheerleader vet as it is commisar-bootleg

i have a sergeant loadout with heavy laspistol and power falch

[dry cloak]

any power weapon or chain weapon sir

[inner imp]

ooooh, ive been using infernus and headhunter

[inner imp]

i really do enjoy my chainsword, so i might just go back to bolt pistol chainsword

[dry cloak]

use dumdum . hh does not have enough value on recon las

[spark helm]

This assumes someone just stays stagnant in their thinking. This just isnt how people work and most players want variety. They can't just live on H1 > H2.

Plus, it's not like there aren't similar weapons to the ds in terms of mobility or even better mobility. They'll still have to actually understand basic defense as well. Ds is great and all but someone doesn't know how to handle themselves, it means little.

[inner imp]

really? i save quite a bit of ammo with shock troop + dead aim and just keeping crossahair at headlevel, or burst firing with exe on. the new keystones on the leftside is great bc of the new patch

i really like the stamina regen on weakspot kill for the left keystone

[azure narwhal]

HH would be good if vet wasn't a machine that turns shots into crit shots

[dry cloak]

there one +crit chance in vet tree

[spark helm]

Main reason why I don't usually bother with headhunter on the mk12 is the spray of it all. It's not to say that it can't pull off weakspot kills but it's a much lower output and dumdum is very way easier to work with.

[dry cloak]

ogryn needed to live of h1-h2 on shield for a eternity

[inner imp]

the base crit for veteran with no nodes is 10% now though isnt it?

[inner imp]

oh true, that reason alone is why i ended up having to fire in bursts

[dry cloak]

mk12 is the worst one out of the 3

6c is the one youw ant to use

[spark helm]

I'm just talking about what they mentioned using

[dry cloak]

aye

[inner imp]

So the crit chance for the recon lasgun on vet with the Deadshot perk is like 35% crit and then you add the headhunter blessing

base 5% from headhunter

so just ADSing gives you 40% crit

[spark helm]

Mm

[inner imp]

thats why i use head hunter

[spark helm]

Well tbh you're playing with intent

[inner imp]

and if you decide to burst into a horde with good placement + control its fairly decent

[dry cloak]

this 2 are enough for crit chance on recon las

[inner imp]

this is factored in with 15 stacks so +25% rend? for the keystone + some of the middle

[dry cloak]

for the most part

[inner imp]

omg true i forgot to talk about that too

that is a solid 50% crit off rip just for reloading

[inner imp]

yeah i tried my best to keep the loadout themes while being viable to a degree

winning is fun, but even better if you do it your way

[spark helm]

I mean, if you're able to hang in the difficulties you want with the builds you got, go for it

[inner imp]

absolutely! it ain't fun getting dumpstered or being a detriment

@dry cloak Do you remember how dumdum works? I forgot. if i remember correctly its not only close range dmg increase right?

[spark helm]

It's close dmg but close dmg can be like...15m

[inner imp]

I'm gonna trade HH for DD and give it a whirl then

[inner imp]

I trust you guys

[inner imp]

oh so that was it, i remember that it wasnt "close range" but decent i just couldnt remember what it was

[spark helm]

Mmhm

Close dmg on repeated. Then deathspitter is strength on kill

[inner imp]

that close range damage part is confusing cause usually it makes one think "1-5 meters" or something lmao

okay i've swapped both out, thanks you two

oh my god this is sick

you monsters

my bootleg helgun from temu actually functions like one somewhat now

[calm shard]

knife

[calm shard]

yeah but then it's fucking 12.5 meters

aka the distance 90% of fights are at

[inner imp]

straight up

ok I remember why I use the middle variant for recon lasgun, it actually has +1 body pen

the top variant is just funnier because brrrrrr

[calm shard]

that's the XIV which is the slow one

I like it a lot for deadshot meme builds

[inner imp]

yeah im a big fan of the reserve ammo, damage per hit, and pen

[calm shard]

it actually has less reserves than the other 2

by a lot

since it uses 2 ammo per shot instead of 1 ammo like the otehrs do

[inner imp]

oh dang

thats the price of power i guess

[tame lodge]

100% effectiveness until 12.5 meters

Decays until 0% at 30 meters

Iirc

[inner imp]

wtf that is crazy far

[tame lodge]

close range
30 meters

[inner imp]

WHAT THE HECK

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-discord-tenni-tennis-gif-1852392060093005411

[grand perch]

dumdums interpretation of close range is complete wack

[inner imp]

that is fucking criminal

unbelievable

[spark helm]

Lol it was double what I thought

[inner imp]

bro we were sitting here happy with up to 15

that shi goes up to 25, im double happy now LMAO

[spark helm]

I just straight up forgot but I remember when I originally started paying attention and just looked at the tooltip

"Close damage"

https://tenor.com/view/really-bruh-stop-lying-why-you-always-lying-lying-gif-1112534520130515477

[inner imp]

fr "close damage"

[steep flower]

Lovely

[inner imp]

reminds me of when stalker scabs werent marked for counter fire

like bru FS wtf

[spark helm]

Wait what really?

When?

[inner imp]

oh yeah you werent here for that?

that was the beginning of darktide

[spark helm]

I been using counter-fire for years, I don't remember that

[inner imp]

yeah man

counter-fire used to not count scab stalkers cuz they were hybrid

[spark helm]

Was this during one of yhe origonal closed betas?

[inner imp]

nah dude this was on LAUNCH

[spark helm]

I didn't play precisely on launch because I couldn't afford it. Interesting.

I think I got into the game proper a month or so after it came out

But I started playing during the 2nd closed beta.

[inner imp]

yeah man it was crazy

it didnt mark em in beta either

[tawdry osprey]

@honest quiver holy shit

[inner imp]

I believe they added the ability to mark em during Patch 14

[honest quiver]

thank god. Justice.

[inner imp]

@spark helm

might have been the first talent rework patch

[spark helm]

Ah scab stalkers

[inner imp]

oh no, probs second

[spark helm]

I probably didn't noticed because it worked for everything else.

[inner imp]

YUP, thats how they got us

then we started pointing it out, went on for like a whole year+

[spark helm]

Because counter-fire builds are straight up some of my most used builds in the game since the beginning.

[inner imp]

oh 100%, we had to do the job. Those ranged patrols and elites were a threat.

[mortal aspen]

chat, that's crazy

[inner imp]

game was almost straight up unplayable for lesser skilled players

at that time

[spark helm]

I personally disagree but I will say ppl didn't value countering grunt shooters.

Until more difficulties got added then there was no denying it.

[inner imp]

aa this is just anectodal/frm my experience, the matches I soloQ'd in would wipe bc of the ranged enemies

the ppl i encountered in the early days just werent ready for it

[spark helm]

Not even to paint myself a certain way but in vt2 in particular, ranged enemies weren't much of a problem when checked and where in much lower numbers by comparison. But because I spent a lot of my time playing kerillian and especially a lot of shooter builds across all the others frequently, I was already pretty steeped in the sharpshooter kind of mindset when it came to target priority of important specials like pack masters, gutterunners, globadiers,etc.

[inner imp]

relatable pmuch what i did in vt2 as well

i guess we're both vets for a reason now that i think about it

[spark helm]

So it was easier for me to notice the moment I hit heresy way back that the source of so many problems could begin at unchecked ranged units in droves because I remember the first time I got lit up by a squad of grunts

One salvo took me down to less than 40% from full

I didn't run defense curios back then because I didn't need to immediately but my vet was extremely squishy.

[inner imp]

What really shoved me into a ranged enemy exterminator was friends continuously talking about ranged

[spark helm]

Cuz I was used to exploding in vt2 from two cataclysm basic enemy slaps

[inner imp]

ogryn friend: im too fucking THICC i cant hide behind shit
preacher: my god damn dash doesnt even fucking function properly and i stop mid charge and get shoved back
Psyker: bru wtf is this peril ting

these were like the most common things i kept hearing in the early days

so u kno, i had to square up, grenades and precision on the ranged

back when our grenade CD was like 45 seconds LMAO

[spark helm]

Also enjoyed just staying in exestance and the infantry lasgun was definitely first ranged weapon I got good with so I just had a juiced up ranged build made to make ilg a vending machine through exestance grunt shooter extension and guaranteed 1-2 shots on most specialists and shooter elites. Ogryn were like 5-7 headshots back then iirc.

Well with how I built things at the time.

[inner imp]

yeah i remember the slow hard hitting one was king for me, and then i ended up using the 1a or w/e

[spark helm]

Slow was good for a while tbh. Idk what happened to it and i haven't tried it since but eventually it just sort of fell off for me.

[turbid ibex]

Ilas just got powercrept in general

Theyre pretty outdated for the current state of the game

[spark helm]

The faster one is fine and I used it more in marksman's focus builds back then when it originally dropped. Default been my favorite since the beginning of me playing the game.

As much as i hate to admit it, I've been running left tree ilg + p.sword for longer than i realize.

[inner imp]

the 1a still works pretty decently imo

just not the 12 or w/e

[turbid ibex]

Mk2b is alright ye

[inner imp]

deadly accurate and headhunter still make it somewhat viable

[spark helm]

It can work just fine for what it does but it's harder work. At aurics is probably where I'd say it can still put in the work until the right things happen to make viable targets for it a problem.

[turbid ibex]

The other 2 marks are really lacking though

[inner imp]

true, the paratrooper omegalulz one and the heavy hitting one need a slight switch up

[spark helm]

Because the worst thing that can happen with a counter-fire exestance ilg build is when you just can't actually do your full damage to something's dome.

Helbore though? Yeah you're fine. Still in the lane of precision lasgunplay so I'm here for it.

[inner imp]

i feel like im being punished everytime i play infantry/braced autogun

[spark helm]

Funnily enough, if I want to use a smaller las weapon in aurics flexibly, I'm usually running a laspistol. Bigger targets? Straight to helbore.

[inner imp]

true

[spark helm]

Hitsg? Infantry las

I press F

https://tenor.com/view/sniper-gif-26102511

[inner imp]

hehe, deadshot braced autogun will never cease to amuse me

[mortal aspen]

IAG feels pretty good in aurics

[turbid ibex]

Main issues with the ilas imo are the excessive "recoil" animations, mk7 and 9 having deceptively low ammo count (36/240 effective ammo for mk 7 and 36/212 for 9) as well as bad mobility (slightly worse than the fucking bolter somehow), bad adm and really underwhelming blessing pool

[night marten]

BASTION 2-20 COMBAT STANCE!!!

[spark helm]

Feels too cool to go booboopboop in lights out too

[turbid ibex]

IAG is pretty good with the vraks mark

[inner imp]

im just not a fan of not being able to shoot more with it

[grand perch]

dunno, deadly accurate plus headhunter is pretty potent

[inner imp]

yeah i use the vraks ver

[mortal aspen]

what do you mean "shoot more"?

[grand perch]

the ammo pool thing, yes absolutely, you could double the ammo pool far as im concerned for 7 and 9

[inner imp]

sometimes other people grab de ammo boxes, so im living on scraps in the red for doing my job against ranged enemies that no one can reach

[mortal aspen]

eat all the ammo on the map, you're the ranged class after all

[turbid ibex]

I think we should just get rid of the way their ammo works

[inner imp]

i try, i scavenge everywhere i can

sometimes it is what it is, and i just go omega conserve mode

[turbid ibex]

There is 0 reason for them to consume more than 1 ammo per shot when you have no way of choosing how much it will consume

[inner imp]

i just hate the stupid holosight on it as well

[grand perch]

well theres mods for that

[inner imp]

like what is that atrocious sight on the infantry las

[grand perch]

its actually my favorite sight

[inner imp]

that is my fault, i dont wanna dl mods to change the sight

[inner imp]

if i could pick, i would take ironsights

its one of the reasons i like the recon lasguns and the autoguns

[grand perch]

well theres a mod for that

[turbid ibex]

Also the lasgun having only 36 effective mag size when they canonically can go for over 150+ before running out of juice is stupid

[inner imp]

i know i know, like i said its my faultl for not dling the mod

[grand perch]

https://youtu.be/g9nBh7uT7Ug?t=16

irons + bayonet addition is peak

[turbid ibex]

I get that straight up 150+ would prob be a bit too much but going down to just 36 feels like an insult

[grand perch]

too bad i cant use the pokey bit since its cosmetic only

[grand perch]

depends on the strength setting really

[inner imp]

functional bayonets make me happy

[turbid ibex]

Its still a gigantic difference

Imo a max ammo mk7 should have at least like 80 effective mag size

[mortal aspen]

OP

[spark helm]

Never really struggle with the sights on the infantry lasgun. I just line em up and knock em down.

[turbid ibex]

The sights arent the issue as much as the exaggerated "recoil" animation is

[spark helm]

?

I don't quite understand

[inner imp]

The sight bounces around like a big booty brasilian chick on a pole

makes it aggravating without deadshot

i can use it, its just... aggravating

[turbid ibex]

More or less

[spark helm]

I've been around the Brazilians throwing ass. That's definitely not to that level.

[inner imp]

[turbid ibex]

It feels less like firing a laser and more like a 50cal with how much the gun moves

[inner imp]

Quick curveball guys, I feel like Marksman focus should be base 15 stacks and that node "Long Range Assassin" should be something damage related. Thoughts?

[turbid ibex]

Its specially noticeable on the hipfire

[spark helm]

Not even trying to be an ass but I can't see the lasguns as having the wilder recoil.

Unless maybe you're being suppressed and being stubborn.

[inner imp]

its more of a visual thing, than actual recoil thing

which can throw people off

[turbid ibex]

Also that

[spark helm]

I suppose.

[turbid ibex]

Its the animation itself rather than actual recoil

[inner imp]

yeah its all about perception

[spark helm]

I put my faith in yhe hitmarker.

:V

[inner imp]

Emprah guides my aim.

my friend: how tf do u hit anything, u keep saying u cant see and ur fuckin blind

me: : )

[spark helm]

Fuck that guy, I'm just great. (F. Loose Cannon moment)

[turbid ibex]

#veteran-class message posted this before

[spark helm]

I earned that arrow tattoo

[inner imp]

🫵

oh my god

does Bolter still have that weird ADS visual bug?

do you guys know what im talking about?

[grand perch]

the parkinson bolter syndrome yes

[inner imp]

that follow up shot recoil that was so shit that you just had to exit ads and then ads again

please tell me they fixed it

[spark helm]

Started with fatshark through ranger veteran, slid into waystalker and kerillian period, play bounty hunter saltz as my favorite, forgot the Fuegonasus class that proto assail.

Was it pyromancer?

[inner imp]

think so

[spark helm]

It's the one where she's not completely corrupted by winds of magic

But not an imperial nerd

With the uh. The skull

[inner imp]

battle wizard was the dashy one

[spark helm]

Huntsman kruber too

[inner imp]

hehe hunty krubs

[spark helm]

So it was all either elf anything, shooters and sneakzies.

[inner imp]

i actually played longbow kruber hunts that was fun

[spark helm]

That shit felt cool as hell when you got the hang of it

[inner imp]

The ammo economy in VT2 was insanely good and rewarding

[spark helm]

Longbow a charging beast man off the 180 dodge?

[inner imp]

-sob- dont make me remember the good times

stop it

[spark helm]

I should've saved a clip of it but earlier this week I probably pulled off my best shot to date. Threaded a helbore round through the plating slot on those forts before the finale of the ritual disruption mission. Was like 8m out? Clapped a shotgunner clean in the head. I just wanted to know if it was possible lmao

Exestance helped with the acquisition but I genuinely thought it wouldn't work. Nope.

I dream of a day where it's just 4 vets with each lasgun.

||I need fatshark to make infiltrate better so I can finally reach the final form: smoke, survivalist, infiltrate, mmf||

I can try doing it again now that talents aren't as costly but idk

[torn night]

🫃

[spark helm]

I don't get what that's supposed to mean

[turbid ibex]

Pregnant_man

[inner imp]

🫡

[mortal aspen]

Infiltrate with the -threat node is almost like Huntsman's ult

and you get a hefty damage boost for 5s

[spark helm]

I get that. I just don't understand what it's supposed to mean.

[spark helm]

The problem for me really is just the cost and uptime on the ability. In those builds, I actually spent more time doing things in melee than the other way around.

Couldn't go far into left tree back then so its was either ws or ft and ws can feel odd with the precision weapons that aren't like a revolver or something.

[mortal aspen]

it can still work as a meme build in aurics

but of course, Exe stance is just the more obvious better choice for ranged sniping

[steel veldt]

Exe Stance really went from bad to good by one update

at least to me

I still prefer Infiltrate because it's fun

and fits me more

[spark helm]

exestance genuinely was already pretty nice but it lacked any defensive utility compared to now. Information with a damage and gun play steroid is nice, but it's better to stay alive too.

[steep flower]

You can; whats stopping you

[steep flower]

It means
Ridiculous/special to put it lightly

[steep flower]

They literally ONLY changed that it gives you 10% toughness/sec as long as its active; not a big deal considering Confirmed Kill, Out for Blood & Catch a Breath were always auto include in every build (or atleast they should; many ppl did not and then they were surprised why they cannot sustain themselves )

[steel veldt]

I mean that helps me A LOT

Like A LOT

[steep flower]

Do ppl kill stuff before you do/you don’t include CK in your builds?

[steel veldt]

I went from never ever using it to using it a lot

I don't include CK

Idk what that does

I don't think I took it

[steep flower]

Yeah see thats your problem
You should

[steel veldt]

Imma look into it

where is it?

like in the talent tree

[steep flower]

At the very top center

[steel veldt]

oh no wonder

lol

[steep flower]

But ye do take it and you’ll realize exec stance buff is basically adding a lil bit of spice to an already nice dish

Basically not that meaningful

[serene bough]

I remember running a 4 vet random H40 was the most enjoyable one I did

[steep flower]

Las pistol, recon las, infantry las & helbore; that sounds amazing ngl

And all would be different builds too

[serene bough]

Im actually enjoying the IX ilas current patch

Oddly enough

[steel veldt]

Oh wow I googled it

that's op

[mortal aspen]

you kill 5 elites\specials and you already have equal to or better regen than what Exe stance gives

[steep flower]

What you googled?

[steel veldt]

Confiremd Kill

Confirmed Kill

[steep flower]

Ikr; ppl did not grabbed it for ranged weapons that they were killing elites & specials with and wondered why they are soo squishy

Imbecils

[steel veldt]

I mean I am an imbecile

I never heard of it

Somehow

[spark helm]

"Special" as in special needs or some shit? I don't really get some of these internet jokes.

[spark helm]

Yes

[steep flower]

Special as in… well i don’t wanna get banned

[spark helm]

Yeah so it's the special needs insult. Got it.

[steep flower]

More like person not needs

Cause think about it; pregnant man

[spark helm]

I guess.

[steel veldt]

I love pregnant man

[spark helm]

It's just such a corny internet joke that I guess I can't find any humor in it.

[steep flower]

Ye cause every build before usually did not include it cause ‚Out for blood is better’
Correction; BOTH are great - you should use both

[steep flower]

I believe it came from ‚Trolls’ animated movie… where a man does get pregnant so yeah…

[spark helm]

all I got are shrugs on this one. It was just a random thing in respons to what I said that made zero sense. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dapper coyote]

I have installed customisation mod

Suddenly my accurate went up tremendously for my HB lasguns

[spark helm]

Current issue with the helbore infiltrate situation is uh.

Man.

I really can't kill things fast enough to spin infiltrate again.

[steep flower]

I don’t see any issue

[steep flower]

Cause you use it as a tech choice; objectives, revives, abusing low profile augment

You don’t use it like you use shout

[steel veldt]

I like to use it then throw grenades with m2

[spark helm]

I get all that. That's not the issue. The issue has more to do with the downtime between infiltrates.

[steep flower]

Its perfect for that ye

[steep flower]

Do you use Overwatch augment?

[spark helm]

I can still drop standard targets. P.sword covers carapace just fine.

[steep flower]

And
Do you use 3x ability cooldown regen on your curios?

Cause lets be real; i pressume you do use tactical awareness

Like every vet even after nerfs

[steel veldt]

Tac awareness op

[spark helm]

Idc about most people's thoughts on the talent. I run tactical awareness because I can just drop targets relevant to it very easily. It's a slower grind but I'd rather have something that just brings my cdr up to be more stable than risking pointless droughts.

[hollow ibex]

it's prob the weakest mainline cdr talent now lol

got nerfed so hard

[steel veldt]

Really?

[spark helm]

It's pretty noticeable

[steep flower]

Was OP; now its alright

[steep flower]

Yes cause most of them require elite or special
Vet one is only specials

[hollow ibex]

still a pretty important talent to take

[steep flower]

While bruiser for ogryn is only elites

[hollow ibex]

though i can see an argument for skipping with exec stance

[spark helm]

In this conversation specifically, it's felt the hardest on infiltrate and was a huge source of its flexibility back then. If you could keep your tempo pretty well, you could be in and out of infiltrate with little issue. You can still do so now, but it takes long enough that being shut out of kills for any reason makes things a bit harder

[steep flower]

Ye with the upkeep of the ability i even was considering it not required

[steel veldt]

Oh.

[steep flower]

It is harder but still good

[spark helm]

I agree but it is just a solidly felt change. I personally don't care about overwatch but I'm still playing around with things.

Covert operations doesn't change much here

[steep flower]

You should get overwatch

[spark helm]

I've used it before. The 2 charges are nice, but I personally don't care for the base increased penalty. I like having more freedom with ability cooldowns

And so far. I'm playing with testing ability modifier nodes to see if I'm down for it.

Kinda..

[hollow ibex]

overwatch is a sidegrade imo, except you have to pay a point for it

[steep flower]

Basically; you pick overwatch & low profile just like before; rest is mega doodoo

[dapper agate]

Infiltrates main problem is that it's not Ranger Veteran smoke bomb, if it was that I would use it more.

[spark helm]

Mmf and focus target feel roughly the same with the latter having a better feel on toughness generation but idc about too deeply because I can just hold my own well enough to not lose my mind over some generation dips.

[steep flower]

Or use hunters resolve instead of low profile cause 10s is worth it but still low profile basically gives you 18 sec invis realistically if you stick to your team which you should

[spark helm]

Prefer the tdr instead since I'll often rely on melee for longer. I get the utility though

[hollow ibex]

i prefer tdr because the team would prob fold if i took low profile

[steep flower]

Then the team is bad to begin with

[spark helm]

I take both. Fuck em. I cover people all the time anyway.

[hollow ibex]

yeah that's most pubby teams

[spark helm]

That's why I use counter-fire so much in the first place fr.

People just don't check shooters often enough in some of my games that the playstyle I've been rocking for years continues to give me feel good brain juice.

[steep flower]

If you delete yourself from your team and your team fail within next 10 mins or so or before they could get you up the comp was bad or they are bad or both

Simple as

[spark helm]

I'm usually not in infiltrate for a prolonged period of time so the point between having no aggro and enemies dying is very short.

I'll be real, peoppe can just learn to spread tags out.

Like I don't understand why people are allergic to giving themselves and their own teammates information with enemy pings. Just because it's yellow doesn't mean that only one person ought to do it.

To this day mfkers hardly ping until they get downed and spam that shit like I'm gonna waste my time helping them after they keep shitting on themselves the moment I turn my back for one second.

If it's an easy pickup sure np or one I can risk squeezing in, yeah fine. Everything else? Fuck no. Lol

I've gone out of my way to revive mfkers, infiltrate and all and they just abandon me random as hell and just get downed again.

Mildly annoying but always confusing because then the infiltrate will be to blame, not the person who gets jumped/netted by easy to see trappers and dogs that are highlighted already.

Or is easily intimidated by a single crusher moving at 5 mph. With answers for them too.

Infiltrate been getting scapegoated for ages by people who run voc and burn it on cooldown.

[calm shard]

playing helbore IV exe stance killing every elite/specialist on the map

and they will find a way to die to the SINGLE mauler that I missed

you can't win

If you do a good job killing an pinging every special/elite they stop paying attention and don't notice the stragglers

If you don't they get overwhelmed by there being more than like 2 of them and fold instantly

[cloud leaf]

Power falchion sucks

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/15947931621725654746/605C4AF36B366BA3FC7E3F20D6820D39FF1C21BC/

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/humbled-fooled-jbtzxclsv-gotcha-damn-gif-17865162594285110545

That shit hurts my feelings every time.

I was in the scope this long FOR YALL

[hollow ibex]

Yeah it’s not great, needs help

[spark helm]

Fym you didn't hear big boy #272541 talking about how he's going to drink your bones? HE RIGHT THERE 😭

[fair shale]

Tbf crushers are quiet

I totally get not hearing those

[spark helm]

I haven't that happen yet but I did get the clipped audio on bursters before.

[fair shale]

I dont even mean bugged audios I just mean for being an Ogryn in plate armor they could probably stand to be louder when walking

[spark helm]

Usually I'll hear their footsteps or their statements or the sound of something in carapace lumbering around.

It's very distinct by design.

[wheat gate]

Are bleed stacks a good way to kill bosses?

[spark helm]

They have one of the only footsteps in the game that actually have significant bass to them

Ragers are noticeable by the sound of their swings or whatever. Crushers got distinct yells etc.

There's just so much information available even in the chaos it's kind of hard to miss.

And again. If everyone can see the same horde, everyone can ping what's in it.

[calm shard]

no

bleed is the shortest duration and lowest damage DoT in the game

[wheat gate]

What is the best dot

[calm shard]

burn

[wheat gate]

hm

So what is the best boss killing build then

For veteran

Lasgun?

Recon

You could apply burn stacks

[calm shard]

bolter

bolter+exe stance with focus target keystone

[wheat gate]

You just hip fire it or?

Also which variant is better the new or old one?

[tame lodge]

Old

New one is 💀

[jaunty rune]

old one is better but i use the new one so i dont need to deal with that recoil issue

[faint beacon]

Unfortunate truth nuke

[steep flower]

Nah you shout so you can stagger the boss & abuse weakspot dmg

[steep flower]

Shout & boltgun with marksman (don’t confuse with keystone) and focus target; you can do well vs bosses while not losing vs everything else
Remember; overspecialized builds are usually not that great

[steep flower]

Ye you hipfire so you can full auto

[signal garden]

ideally the thing youre best meleeing at

while its nice to be able to just whip out a rapid fire weapon and go to town on a boss, it pays to know how to dodge a boss

im not 100% on dodging a chaos spawn but all the other bosses can be locked in a melee cycle

which pays dividends if your team has its hands full, and if you ever intend to do havocs

[steep flower]

Or just stun it with shout & abuse stagger for easy weakspot dmg

[signal garden]

there comes to be a time if you do havocs

that there will be 1 captain for 3 of your teammates

and if you suck at managing a boss in melee im sorry but no one's going to cover for you

so first and foremost i say learn to block bosses and smack them during openings

[steep flower]

Thats why you wip out the idea i did describe above

So you eliminate the threat fast and focus on another

[signal garden]

but if its a chaos spawn or a plague ogryn throw a grenade down for the stagger (yes the shredder grenade still staggers), retreat by spamming a backwards dodge, and unload on a boss

[steep flower]

Boss piling on is hard and no amount of skill in melee will save you when you get jumped by 3

Or more

[signal garden]

thats incorrect

[noble nexus]

AYYYYYYY

[signal garden]

because ogryn and arbes can do it

[spark helm]

Against plague ogryn and bon i swing that.

[signal garden]

not cleanly, but they can

[spark helm]

More worried about chaos spawn leaping and slapping me into something that'll cc me but otherwise eh

[steep flower]

Ye but we talk about vet here

[spark helm]

Yeah, imma be fine.

[signal garden]

yeah but nothing makes a 3v1 more of a certainty like going down

so learn melee so you dont go down

[steep flower]

The classic yeet towards a poxburster

Mutants do that too

[spark helm]

I usually just keep the monstrosities in mind snd focus on everything else that can actually cc or do area denial.

[signal garden]

also the melee hitbox for big boss weakspots is quite generous

[steep flower]

And use my idea; combine both goods from both worlds

[signal garden]

@spark helm no you can do both

[spark helm]

I know

[signal garden]

the shredder grenade clears the chaff so you can focus on bossing

[spark helm]

Im talking about situations where I have to clean up disablers while just getting jumped and people running around with their heads cut off.

[signal garden]

arbes has shield and stun grenade and ogryn have billy club

so i mean that means the worst class at bossing is... zealot?

[steep flower]

Impact grenade too is great

[signal garden]

hell at least psyker can jellyfish dodge

impact grenade is the worst of arbes options

[steep flower]

Nah; psyker

[steep flower]

Nah boi; you need to try them

[signal garden]

psyker is always worst on the basis of "its really high skill"

nah, i have tried them, its only good for padding stats

[spark helm]

How would zealot struggle with bossing when it's one of the premiere classes that can 1-3 shot most monstrosities?

[midnight wyvern]

[signal garden]

you have the most powerful melee weapon in the game

[steep flower]

You haven’t used them enough then

[signal garden]

ive used them plenty enough to know that they dont help me do objectives like a stun nade can

impact grenade is good, but at the end of the day compared to the other two its just a stat pad

[midnight wyvern]

I'd take nades over dog any day

[signal garden]

besides, dog shock can multitask with bolter

[steep flower]

Objectives sure
Boss stunning, creating space, doing dmg no

[signal garden]

what

[steep flower]

That yes

[spark helm]

Prefer dog most of the time

[signal garden]

arbes is supreme at meleeing bosses, its the chaff that are the issue, so just stun lock the chaff and focus the boss

[steep flower]

Or do both

[midnight wyvern]

arb actually has pretty bad sustain into meleeing bosses lol

[signal garden]

fight around the mine, its a duel, and arbes is goated at winning every duel

what

[midnight wyvern]

you rely on staggering or killing, you're doing neither to a boss

[signal garden]

just block, oh i got toughness, just push, oh i get toughness

sic your dog on something random

thats 3 serpate "15 tgh over 3 seconds) running

[steep flower]

Ye; only stamina/block one & concussive with force of will is there

[midnight wyvern]

better to just use its good ranged options since the 3 main good ones on arb all do good unyielding

4 really

[junior grail]

Anyone got suggestion for a Vigil Vet build?

[steep flower]

Nobody runs toughness on blocking despite being potent
On stamina usage tho ye

[signal garden]

right, in which case the stun nade can keep chaff down while you whip out your bolter

so because no one runs it it doesnt exist? what kind of logic is that

[calm shard]

krak

grenade

throw krak

[signal garden]

hell its potent vs shooters, just block a shot, oh look im getting toughness lol

[calm shard]

exe stance

bolter

boss dead

[steep flower]

Its because there are better things to pick & concussive carries you

[steep flower]

Ye that too; shits insane

[signal garden]

@calm shard 1 boss is dead, get your ass opened wide by chaff

[calm shard]

especially in current havoc rotation kraks are really good now

[calm shard]

it takes literally less than 2 seconds to kill a boss with exe bolter

[signal garden]

what if the boss has a bubbkle shield

[calm shard]

if you are dead to chaff in that time

[midnight wyvern]

tbf its pretty similar if not the same with shout lol

[calm shard]

I suggest rebinding your dodge button to something you can actually press

[steep flower]

And more safe

[midnight wyvern]

just bind it to shift

[signal garden]

honestly my issue seems to be coming from vermintide im more comfortable 1v1ing bosses in melee

[midnight wyvern]

you're not dodging forward and your finger is resting on that anyway

[signal garden]

so i just gravitate towards melee and options that enable a clean 1v1

[steep flower]

Ahh i see; very fair

[signal garden]

and i think vet has good options for amping DPS in melee vs single targets

also you cant run out of "swing muh tac ax" ammo

and the poke>overhead on PS is extremely satisfying on hard argets

[midnight wyvern]

has good options for amping ranged vs single too lol

[steep flower]

Yes it does but you can just delete a boss in 1 mag really and faster than you would in melee
Also safer

[signal garden]

again, bubbles

and BS armor modifiers

you WILL run into things you cant 1 mag, so i preach knowing what the heck to do when that happens

[midnight wyvern]

you don't

assuming anyone on the team is running any form of debuff, a bolter vet can 1 mag a plogryn

sitting comfy at 102k hp

[steep flower]

Vs twins you have no problem; burst the shield with melee then magdump the head
Normal captains you NEVER magdump due to shield regain mechanic

[signal garden]

yeah but plague ogryn is the easiest boss to melee already

[calm shard]

bolter vet...

[midnight wyvern]

[steep flower]

You idealy want to eliminate a threat fast not toy with it

[calm shard]

obviously use rending strikes instead if your melee needs it

[steep flower]

Thats atrocious

[calm shard]

or field improv if you don't like serrated blade

[tepid otter]

prolly field improv 100% of the time for me

[calm shard]

I am in the boat that I don't like field improv

[signal garden]

i dont know how to feel about that

[steep flower]

No tac reload too so your less potent in prolonged encounters

[calm shard]

regardless of the tree semi-forcing you into it now

[steep flower]

Mah man

[calm shard]

?

[signal garden]

i dont like field improv, on the grounds that FS hasnt made it obvious when a vet is running the god damn talent

[midnight wyvern]

[steep flower]

Ye; tac reload better cause always active - meet many ppl who wanted to burst a boss and did not took tac reload but took that… result
Boss was not dying fast enough

[calm shard]

yeah no offense on a bolter on a build that I want to do boss damage with

I am not going to waste my time stopping at 1 bullet for a faster reload

just to have 5% slower reloads anyways

when volley adept is active nearly 100% of the time

[steep flower]

And thats why you’re worse at this mah boi

[midnight wyvern]

just be me

don't take either

[calm shard]

bolter shouldn't take more than one mag to kill a monstrosity

[midnight wyvern]

more damage for me

[steep flower]

With good team that covers you yes; doable
I like being always ready

[junior grail]

Is Bistol Vet still strong?

[midnight wyvern]

I mean, you can just play around it

[calm shard]

you don't really need a team that covers you for exe anymore

[midnight wyvern]

I have hundreds of hours on this goofy ah build

[calm shard]

10% toughness regen a second is...a lot

[midnight wyvern]

just reload

[steep flower]

Ay

[steep flower]

Mah boi dunno what CK is

[calm shard]

it stacks ontop of it

[hollow ibex]

Yah I always take both at once now

Soooo much toughness

[calm shard]

kinda makes counterfire somewhat worth considering

for effectively infinite uptime on that ridiculous regen

[steel veldt]

Is counterfire bad?

I love counterfire

[steep flower]

Its great

[sharp epoch]

dont take counterfire take the ogryn one

[signal garden]

this guy gets it, im magdumping because its right, the 30% reload is good for general purpose though, and a crutch if you run plasma and have severe OCD

[steep flower]

If you use mk4 helbore yes

[sharp epoch]

nah take the ogryn one always

[steel veldt]

I prefer counterfire tbh

I hate shooters

[signal garden]

everyone should hate shooters

[steel veldt]

there are way more of them to kill

therefore more uptime

[sharp epoch]

the thing is the ogryn one gives you 8 seconds

[signal garden]

if only there were some way to make every shooter in the room sweat their blood out

preferably in one move

[steep flower]

Tac reload does it better and for every situation; try it

[signal garden]

30% 25% whatever the unfin mag is

[steel veldt]

There I put CK on my exe stance builds

[spark helm]

If you want to beat down shooters, run counter-fire. if you want to drop bigger targets relibly, take the ogryn one

[signal garden]

all im saying is its good in general purpose, but that i 100% magdump when bosses start coming out

[sharp epoch]

on havoc you take the ogryn one no matter what

[signal garden]

because im not stopping at 1 bullet

[steep flower]

The only time volley adept is better is on 2 weapons;
Double barrel shotgun
Agripinaa revolver aka the fan one

[spark helm]

I don't play havoc so I'll that for myself over time.

[signal garden]

play havocs, they make you smarter

even if you fail 10 havocs youll still come out able to carry "the average shitshow"

[steep flower]

Copium

[sharp epoch]

because it still triggers off elites and specials and theres plenty of those

[spark helm]

I already play very well. Don't need havoc for that. But I want to do havoc because it's just the shiony new thing anyway.

[steep flower]

[midnight wyvern]

team I just had earlier made me question this statement

[signal garden]

right well when you survive in spite of your team it makes you better

[midnight wyvern]

heresy gamers playing havoc 40s even though havoc is the only thing they play

😭

[signal garden]

im not saying theyre smart people, but the kinds of stuff thrown at you make you play with better decision making

[steel veldt]

Mfw I never did this

I had Longshot for some reason

[signal garden]

more or less how to not fall into bad situations, and what parts of the map to avoid

and which maps to avoid

[spark helm]

Havoc mostly just seems to tbe extension of the hard checks you get exposed to in aurics and auric maelstroms.

[signal garden]

namely the ones that involve running onto a junk platform with a constant stream of poxbursters that delay your progress

[spark helm]

Fuck that I want all the smoke idc.

[signal garden]

@spark helm except auric maelstroms dont throw 3 bosses at the team every couple of minutes

[spark helm]

Sounds like fun/

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[signal garden]

you think i care about smoke, the big issue is truly annoying maps where most teams cant get through the platform to the ascender

[spark helm]

Better than it being cycled monstrosities that aren't really al lthat dangerous anyway.

[signal garden]

and i dont blame them

[midnight wyvern]

real

hard modifiers and hard maps

[signal garden]

oh big open sight lines, everything has pinpoint accuracy at microscopic range, and everything has a remarkably high ROF

[midnight wyvern]

CBT is life

[spark helm]

No. I know I care about smoke. And I want it because it feels good to push through in these games.

I want them to try to kill me

I need it.

[signal garden]

fun!

[midnight wyvern]

I need final toll and rituals back on hourglass it was SO FUN

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1425398624472404050/95cd5410c78344abaf2f81097ec4f53a.gif

[signal garden]

then play havocs isntead of edging over the idea of them

[spark helm]

When I'm patient enough to wait for people to load in, sure lol

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[signal garden]

@midnight wyvern dude at least final toll has a relatively tame progression

[midnight wyvern]

the point is that daemonhosts are affected by final toll

and its fucking gay

but I love it

[signal garden]

i dont even know where youre going with this anymore

[spark helm]

I said exactly what I said.

[midnight wyvern]

and hourglass has fucked spawns for rituals

[signal garden]

i still dont even know what youre talking about

[sharp epoch]

I thought monstrosities weren't affected only captains were

[spark helm]

It's not hard to understand fr. I don't like waiting for people to show up in the party finder for havocs. My luck is terrible with it.

[midnight wyvern]

I don't think others outside of DH are but DH most definitely are

[spark helm]

so I lose patience and go right back to aurics

[signal garden]

your luck? just send out 5 invites and wait a minute

stop making excuses for yourself

[midnight wyvern]

you kinda notice the CC immunity when thats your only real counter to getting bullied

[sharp epoch]

the lfg in this server fills up pretty fast

[spark helm]

Mkaing sxcuses is funny.

When I literally am just talking about my direct experinece.

online moment.

Anyway I'll try again when I get to it. doing other things atm.

[sharp epoch]

I think if hes a low havoc clearance he wont get accepted as often

or low level

[spark helm]

^^ literally that.

[sharp epoch]

Better to host when starting off imo

[signal garden]

nah depends on time of day i think

[spark helm]

Yeah, I tried but maybe it's the time of night.

[midnight wyvern]

@ me when you want to do havocs

[signal garden]

some people dont care

[midnight wyvern]